Dec. 4, 2025 - Bannon's War Room
48:00
Participants
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| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| This is the primal screen of a dying regime. | ||
| Pray for our enemies. | ||
| Because we're going medieval on these people. | ||
| Here's not got a free shot on all these networks lying about the people. | ||
| The people have had a belly full of it. | ||
| I know you don't like hearing that. | ||
| I know you've tried to do everything in the world to stop that, but you're not going to stop it. | ||
| It's going to happen. | ||
| And where do people like that go to share the big lie? | ||
| MAGA Media. | ||
| I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience. | ||
| Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose? | ||
| If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved. | ||
|
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War Room. | |
| Here's your host, Stephen K. Bannon. | ||
| Wednesday, 26th of November, and no domini, 2025. | ||
| Harnwell here at the helm on Steve Bannon's War Room. | ||
| The usual team has a Thanksgiving break right now. | ||
| Liz, Liz Yor, Jenny Holland, Frank Walker from Canon 212. | ||
| Frank himself has injured, given himself an injury, tripping over when he was out for a jog, which underlines one of my main theses. | ||
| Don't do exercise because it's a bad for your health. | ||
| But our prayers for a speedy recovery obviously go to Frank Walker. | ||
| We're going to talk about quite a bit that's going on in the church today. | ||
| Let me bring on our guest this evening. | ||
| You'll recognize him if you follow the Friday show, Joseph Robertson, one of the great, I think, young writers talking about politics, specifically the infiltration of socialism across the British political structure via the Fabian Society, but also in terms of the CCEP. | ||
| And he was on the show, Joseph was on the show on Friday of last week, just talking about the espionage operation, which was tracking like thousands of people, literally thousands of people, right across Westminster. | ||
| And it's something that Joseph Robertson himself had warned about just in October by indicating the British government's absolute refusal to list China as a national threat. | ||
| Joseph, welcome onto the show again. | ||
| Thanks for having me, man. | ||
| Before we dig down on the stories that we've selected for you this evening, I want to play something. | ||
| I often say on the war room that there are three principal sources, folks, for you to go to to get the truth about what's going on in the Catholic Church. | ||
| Those sources are Frank Walker, a Canon 212. | ||
| Basically, I think the Catholic Matt Drudge. | ||
| His website's updated in real time. | ||
| And he's always telling you, especially how he frames the headlines, so you can see at a glance, really what's going on, what the undercurrents are in the modernism in the church. | ||
| The other person I would cite and do cite is Chris Jackson, a writer out on Substack, who has simply unmatched analysis, especially on the joined up nature between Bergoglio and Leo. | ||
| And of course, the third source is the war room. | ||
| And all three of us, Frank Walker, Chris Jackson, and the war room, we have said right from the beginning to pay very close attention to this papacy. | ||
| It is and will be the continuation of the Francis Pontificate. | ||
| Is Bergoglio 2.0, and that's something that we see affirmed every time we come together and put this show out. | ||
| And one of the things that we criticize, all three of us, all three of these sources, is the nature of TRAD Inc., which is this, it's an amorphous collection within journalism, but not only in journalism, of people who do the conference speaker circuit and what have you, and they are deliberately misleading you about what is going on in the church and the reasons that that's going on in the church. | ||
| And it's all to do with the grift. | ||
| And the reason I'm saying that, Denver, if you wouldn't mind now, let's just listen to 30 seconds of this and then I will break it down and explain exactly what it is. | ||
|
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Now it's friends, be very careful. | |
| Don't be harsh, don't lack good taste. | ||
| You used to torch the S men as they spun each vertical twist. | ||
| So this is the genius of artificial intelligence. | ||
| The words by Chris Jackson, sung by AI. | ||
| And I'm just going to go through a couple of these verses for you because this is the mandate of why Canon 212, why the war room, why Chris Jackson, why we're doing what we do. | ||
| And this is absolutely perfect. | ||
| So let me just go through this. | ||
| You used to shout, this Pope is killing off the faith. | ||
| Now it's, friends, be careful, don't be harsh, don't lack good taste. | ||
| You used to torture the yes men as they spun each Vatican twist. | ||
| Now you sell the same excuses with a Patreon benefits list. | ||
| You used to call Pakamama a disgrace before the Lord. | ||
| Now it's please don't be dramatic. | ||
| Let's use a softer, safer word. | ||
| You used to say the new right showed the crisis clear as day. | ||
| Now when Leo cuts the old one, you tell people just obey. | ||
| You used to swear you'd lose it all before you'd sell the truth. | ||
| Now you tone it down for donors so the checks keep coming through. | ||
| I could go on. | ||
| This is perfect. | ||
| This is exactly, exactly what we're warning about. | ||
| Okay, Joseph, come on now. | ||
| Just tell us, because you've been on the show a few times before, as I say, to talk about the Fabian Society, this infiltration that's been going on across the whole of the British Labour Party. | ||
| And I think we're going to see real evidence of that in the budget right now, to be honest with you, of the success of that socialist communist movement. | ||
| And you said on Friday about China, but many people don't realize you also have a hinterland. | ||
| You are a traditional Catholic. | ||
| Let me start off, before we break down the stories on the show, just tell me a bit about yourself and your, now I know the word is, I hate the word, when people talk about faith journey, but why don't you tell us a bit about your faith journey? | ||
| Well, thank you. | ||
| And it's, yeah, it's nice to talk about something other than politics because, of course, at the end of the day, we all end up somewhere else, which is not this earth. | ||
| And that's the most important thing. | ||
| And I would say two things before I go into my own personal journey. | ||
| Firstly, that the realization of infiltration in politics has certainly helped me with my Catholic worldview as well. | ||
| And I think actually there are striking parallels between what we're fighting in state and church at the moment. | ||
| And we can go into that later on, I'm sure. | ||
| But it does help, I think, to have an understanding of the duality of the spiritual battle and the playing field in terms of what we're fighting for, really, across the West, Christian civilization, and, of course, the Catholic Church itself. | ||
| I was born, I was lucky enough to be born, blessed enough to be born into a Catholic family. | ||
| And I had two wonderful parents, still do have two wonderful parents, who ended up going to the Latin Mass when I was around eight years old. | ||
| So I sort of, you know, got to know about tradition at a very young age. | ||
| And I didn't fully understand everything at that time, but I had an instinct that this was something far more sacred and mystical than what I had experienced thus far, even at that young age. | ||
| And of course, as most people do, I went somewhat wayward in my teens and after my school years, and then came back to the church in my early 20s, really. | ||
| And so I've been able to see both, you know, the inside of the church, the world for a little bit, and then to come back to it. | ||
| And joining up those dots really was when I first started working in politics about six, seven years ago. | ||
| And I began to see what a rift there was between what people think politics is and what it really is, which is a tangled web of sophisticated and interconnected codependencies, as I like to call it. | ||
| And I realized actually that the church was in a pretty similar position at the same time. | ||
| And so my views have shifted what most people will call rightward, both in terms of politics and religion. | ||
| Tell me a bit more about the search for the sacred. | ||
| How did you realize that that's something you're looking for? | ||
| Well, I always instinctively was conservative, even when I drifted away from the church. | ||
| There were certain issues which I would just consider to be categorically conservative, issues of life, issues surrounding morality, the family, all that kind of thing. | ||
| Of course, you know, I didn't really care about them from a moral viewpoint, but I had that basis. | ||
| What I came to realize once I was in my 20s was that there was something missing. | ||
| And really, you only discover proper grandeur when you can think about something that's higher than yourself. | ||
| And of course, the Latin Mass, as I'm sure you and many of your viewers will have experienced at some point, is the ultimate perfection of that. | ||
| You feel pulled out of yourself. | ||
| Whether or not you believe what's happening is kind of almost secondary. | ||
| Your first experience is filled with every sensory delight. | ||
| You have incense, you have music, you have a worshipful order towards God, which is not found anywhere else, in my opinion. | ||
| And experiencing that again, particularly at the Brompton Oratory in London, which, as many people will know, has some of the best music left in the UK. | ||
| And in other wonderful churches, particularly on trips to Rome and to France, I began to come back. | ||
| Okay, so you're to use the term, I'm a convert. | ||
| I converted from the Church of England, about which we'll talk in a few moments to the Catholic Church 25 years ago. | ||
| You're a revert. | ||
| You were baptized as a baby as a Catholic. | ||
| You left religious practice and then you came back as an adult. | ||
| What age were you when you stopped going to church? | ||
| What age were you when you came back as well? | ||
| And I guess that throughout your childhood, when your parents took you to church, you would go to the Novice Order Mass. | ||
| Now, as you were telling me earlier around London, though you tend to go to Wandsworth, you'll go wherever you might be at the time where there's a Latin Mass. | ||
| So you're pretty much Latin Mass TLM exclusive right now. | ||
| So tell me then, if you wouldn't mind, at the age you stopped going to the Novus Ordo and the age when you restarted religious practices around the LM. | ||
| Yeah, around eight years old, I experienced my first traditional Latin Mass. | ||
| My parents went more or less exclusively, but we would still attend the Novus Ordo from time to time. | ||
| And that was a Dars and Latin Mass. | ||
| So you had to travel quite a while in those days to where we were in the Midlands. | ||
| We weren't in London at the time. | ||
| So you had to travel quite a while to find a Latin Mass. | ||
| They weren't everywhere at the time. | ||
| And so occasionally we'd still go to the Novus Ordo and occasionally we would most of the time I go to the Latin Mass. | ||
| And as I got older, we switched exclusively to the Latin Mass. | ||
| We were going to the FSSP and I also went a couple of times to the SSPX, although I didn't really know what that was at the time. | ||
| And yeah, we settled in this kind of community, the Fraternity of St. Peter. | ||
| And so my teens really were in that community. | ||
| And then I stopped probably practicing properly around the age of 17, I would say. | ||
| Although I had already fallen into wayward habits in my teenage years. | ||
| But I stopped attending the sacraments around that age. | ||
| And I guess I went back to it probably about five years later or around that time. | ||
| And I have to say that, you know, I'm 28 now. | ||
| And COVID really, funny enough to say, strengthened my faith immensely in that period because there was a lot of time to think and reflect. | ||
| We're all in lockdown and really to realize where the world was heading. | ||
| And although I'd already returned back to the church at that point, it sort of consolidated where we were in terms of how easy it was for everything to just stand still and what a blessing it was to have the sacraments. | ||
| And so that's when I really started to get to grips and explore my faith even further. | ||
| I'm going to ask you a question about what advice you might have to folks your own age. | ||
| But stand by in two minutes we'll come back to that. | ||
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| Text Bannon to 989898. | ||
| That's Bannon, B-A-N-N-O-N to 989898. | ||
| Back now to Joseph Robertson. | ||
| Joseph, just out of interest, whereabouts did you grow up in the Midlands? | ||
| I was in Shropshire. | ||
| So we attended Mass in Stoke and Shrewsbury and then other places around there. | ||
| That's West Midlands, right? | ||
| Yes, right on the border with Wales. | ||
| So for anyone who's aware of the geography of the United Kingdom, we're right on the edge, sort of next to the Welsh. | ||
| The East Midland the Midlands itself is basically in the very heart, the geographical heart, the centre of England. | ||
| I grew up in the East Midlands. | ||
| What looks if you if you know, we have plenty of people of all age groups listening to this show. | ||
| If there's like a young guy, say 20 years old, either watching the show Or have parents or even grandparents watching the show with someone in that age profile. | ||
| What, and this is my this will be my last question to you, um, Joseph, on your own faith background. | ||
| Um, but what would you say? | ||
| What kind of words would you say to try to encourage a young guy who hasn't particularly been taking Christianity seriously in their life but realizes that there's a search for something more profound going on inside his conscience? | ||
| Well, if you're watching this show, you're already on the right track because you understand that there's something wrong with the world. | ||
| So, my simple question to people would be: what is your glue? | ||
| What is it that makes all of this stick together? | ||
| Because the reality is that without a fundamental foundational belief, what we're fighting for is kind of irrelevant. | ||
| And I discovered that myself because I couldn't make head or tail of why I believed what I believed, only what I believed. | ||
| And to understand why you believe what you believe, you have to have foundations-be that your husband, wife, or indeed your religion. | ||
| And I think if you want to properly counter the points of what we would call the enemy, the left, the other side, you have to understand your own first. | ||
| And I think we don't really do that very well on the right. | ||
| Religion is one way to do so because it teaches you the fundamental difference between belief and unbelief. | ||
| Thanks, Joseph. | ||
| I'll just say, for an American audience, you know, you go to America, we'll mention at the end of the show that you are indeed about to fly over to the States. | ||
| But in America, people talk to you in the lift or in the bus cure about Jesus Christ. | ||
| I want to thank you, Joseph, because anyone who's English, who's British, knows that that's simply not the case. | ||
| Very, very difficult to talk even in loose terms in the English mentality about Christianity. | ||
| But thanks very much for being willing to talk about your somewhat about your own journey. | ||
| So, I mentioned before that I myself am a strict convert by definition from the Church of England. | ||
| There's a report out that came out a few days ago that mentioned one-third of Catholic priests in England and Wales are converts. | ||
| And that's a huge number. | ||
| Tell me a bit more about what the dynamics were that brought this about, and over what time period are we talking? | ||
| What were the factors there? | ||
| Well, we've got to go back to the creation of something called the personal ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham, which is a mission that was set up by Pope Benedict to essentially bring back elements of the Anglican faith to full communion with Rome. | ||
| That was obviously in the early 2000s, and since then, we've seen a boom in conversions from the Church of England to the Catholic faith. | ||
| There were a few things that had started helping that process even before with the ordination of women priests in the Anglican Rite, which many people felt was anti-biblical, and that was going back, of course, even earlier. | ||
| And some high-profile conversions, notably a few politicians who joined the Catholic faith around that time. | ||
| And then what's happened since is it's two things. | ||
| Of course, the state of the Catholic Church hasn't been particularly great since the abdication of Pope Benedict, but the Church of England has certainly been far, far ahead of them in the woke curve. | ||
| Essentially, become nothing more than a massive green hedge fund for most people, perhaps with elements of transgenderism now. | ||
| But, you know, with the latest kind of spiralling into blessings on gay marriage and various different interpretations of Christianity within the Church of England, you're saying young people look something more solid and finding it, I think, in the Catholic Church. | ||
| But the same is true for clergy. | ||
| That's not just a young people phenomenon. | ||
| It's those who are thinking Anglican clergy have tended to trace their roots. | ||
| And I'd like to also point to something else very important, which is the recent elevation of Cardinal John Henry Newman, now saint, to doctor of the church by the reigning pontiff. | ||
| And that's very significant because, regardless of what you think of the papacy right now, it shows the direction of travel as far as the Anglican communion is concerned. | ||
| And I think we'll see more fruit from that. | ||
| I have a low opinion, seeing as you asked. | ||
| It was a rhetorical question, but I will leap at it to answer. | ||
| I have a very low opinion of the present pontificate and its immediate successor and its immediate predecessor. | ||
| And one of the reasons is, especially with Berd Gogoli of Unhappy Memory, there were stories of Protestants going to him saying, We're thinking about converting to the Catholic Church. | ||
| And he would say, No, no, no, stay where you are. | ||
| Well, yeah, I think, honestly, if I can put this in a nutshell, that no matter who is sitting on the throne of Peter and what their real disposition is, God still finds ways to work. | ||
| I noticed this with the year of St. Joseph, which I thought was particularly prominent and meaningful. | ||
| Obviously, we've noticed this with the Jubilee year. | ||
| And the elevation of Cardinal John Henry Newman to the doctor of the church, of course, its famous quote being: if you're steeped enough in history, you cease to be Protestant, has a very significant impact. | ||
| It's almost like the march of the church cannot be halted even by one or two potential anti-popes, regardless of what people think of their position. | ||
| Whether you are at this stage believing that they are endorsing formal heresy is kind of besides the point because the saints are still in their heaven and God's in his heaven and all's right with the world. | ||
| And so they can't really stop all of this stuff. | ||
| I think that that's a very significant appointment. | ||
| I think, regardless of what Leo thinks of it privately, the reality is that we are dealing with a new doctor of the church and therefore fruits will come of that. | ||
| What do you think? | ||
| Tell me more about what you think. | ||
| We have a couple of minutes left, two or three minutes left of this block. | ||
| What I'd like you to do, using your political analysis, is to say if you're an advisor to the Church of England or to the Catholic Church, to either of them, to either communions, what would you say would be the, in a couple of words, the synthesis for the collapse going on in the Church of England and specifically what not to do in the Catholic Church if the Catholic Church doesn't want to go down the same road? | ||
| Well, don't live a lie. | ||
| I mean, the Church of England has been living a lie since its inception. | ||
| You can argue the positions of Calvin, you can argue the positions of Luther, you can argue the positions of Knox. | ||
| You can't argue the positions of Henry VIII. | ||
| He was a Catholic who decided that he preferred the lusts of the flesh to the whims of Rome. | ||
| And so he created his new church and he founded a new church and it's a church that is in bed with adultery from the very beginning. | ||
| So what more is there to say? | ||
| For the Catholic Church, the message would be don't follow the same. | ||
| Because quite frankly, you know, I think one of the biggest problems in the hierarchy is that we've talked about many times, is this willingness to engage and at times submit to the world. | ||
| And so it's very simple. | ||
| People want more than that. | ||
| We can talk all day long about the communist infiltration in the church because it's another favourite topic of mine. | ||
| And I think it mirrors quite exactly what's happening in the British state right now. | ||
| I would even go so far back as to talk about the parallels between Disraeli and Pope Leo, the original, because there were at the same time warnings both in the Vatican and in the Parliament of the United Kingdom about the secret societies. | ||
| It's a very similar and striking parallel. | ||
| This is how communism and Freemasonry undermine institutions. | ||
| We can go into that conversation separately. | ||
| Just give me 60 seconds about the infiltration of communism inside the Catholic Church. | ||
| Well, in a nutshell, you have a very powerful group of people from two different parties, one being the Communist Party, which directly wanted to subvert the Catholic Church and ended up facilitating the engagement and deployment of tens of thousands of mainly homosexual men in seminaries across the 1940s and 50s and the 60s and the subsequent results we're seeing. | ||
| And we have another group called the Carbonari, who were an Italian mafia, a grand lodge of Freemasonry, who wanted to elect a pope after their own heart and pursued that path for about 100 and something years and ended up actually putting out their commiserations when Francis died. | ||
| So I think you can read into that from all you wish. | ||
| In the 1940s and 1950s, exactly as you say, there was a Soviet plan to infiltrate the Catholic Church from within with huge numbers of ideologically communist but also homosexual priests to destroy the church from within. | ||
| And all of these priests that they got in to the Catholic Church around the world in the tens of thousands were basically sort of bishops and cardinals at the time of the Second Vatican Council, so-called Second Vatican Council. | ||
| And the fruits of that are visible to everyone. | ||
| Interestingly, we know so much about that infiltration that was taking place between the 40s and the 50s because the leader of the US communists at that time, whose name was Bella Dodd, converted to Catholicism. | ||
| She was brought into the church by Archbishop Fulton Sheen. | ||
| And after she testified, she spilled the bees. | ||
| And she testified in front of the House an American activities committee by Senator McCarthy. | ||
| And that is really all fruit to the charisma of one man, Archbishop Fulton Sheen. | ||
| And if only we had a couple of like him today, I think the church would be in a very different position. | ||
| Folks, stand by. | ||
| We'll be back to continue to digest the recent developments in the Catholic Church over the last seven days with Joseph Robertson in two minutes. | ||
| Go on. | ||
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| Welcome back. | ||
| Well, staying on with the theme then of the situation of Christianity in America, Joseph Robertson, you've got some information here about the current state of Christianity in America, specifically whether it's dying. | ||
| And I know we discussed this Gallup poll on the show when it came out a short while ago that suggested that the percentage of US adults who say religion is an important part of their daily life has dropped from 66% in 2015 to 49% in 2025. | ||
| That's in 10 years in one decade. | ||
| It's fallen from two-thirds to just under faction under one half. | ||
| And there's some analysis here on the back of that. | ||
| Tell me about the general situation of this survey and how to break it down. | ||
| I think, first of all, it kind of reflects the political reality as well, which is an important point to note. | ||
| The country in America, as far as I can see from this side of the pond, is divided pretty much in half, much as our country was after Brexit. | ||
| And so it's no surprise to really find Christianity in the same way inclined when you consider that one half of America subscribes to a communist authoritarian regime, much as half of our country appears to do also. | ||
| So there are again striking parallels between state and church. | ||
| What I would add is that I don't think Christianity is declining and I don't think this poll means much because we're also seeing huge levels of conversion in all the right places. | ||
| And so what I would really say is that Christianity is consolidating. | ||
| Because if you go back decades, people haven't really believed what they confess to believe, even when the numbers were much higher. | ||
| If you break down the beliefs of Catholics, for instance, in the US, I think within the New Right Church, there was at one point, I think, something like 70% that didn't believe in the real presence of the Eucharist, which if you're a Catholic as a core tenet. | ||
| And so we're really just getting people fall, I guess, into their proper categories, which is whether or not they authentically believe in Christianity. | ||
| That's, I think, an extremely profound analysis of what is of not just Christianity in America, but Christianity in the beginning of the third millennium. | ||
| That is exactly the case, that people recite creeds, they recite things, but they don't fundamentally believe anymore in the supernatural truth of the elements of the faith that they, even with goodwill, let's assume goodwill, that they claim to believe. | ||
| And I would suggest one of the great missions for not just the Catholic Church, all expressions of Christianity moving forward is to help people to uncover for themselves whether they really do actually believe what the tenets of their faith say. | ||
| That is really the fundamental mission I think to put in, and that's why liturgy is so important because it nourishes a sense of good liturgy, nourishes a sense of the supernatural, right? | ||
| And the gospel message is supernatural all the way through. | ||
| It's above nature. | ||
| It commands nature. | ||
| And I think you absolutely got that a thousand percent right in that analysis. | ||
| What would you say to people listening to this show? | ||
| People with goodwill, right? | ||
| I'm not saying that our hiring shepherds are acting with good will. | ||
| I think they're acting in bad faith, that they don't believe the faith. | ||
| They know they don't believe the faith, and they want to try and destroy other people from believing it. | ||
| But in terms of the laity, the faithful, there might be a slightly different dynamic going on there. | ||
| Could you just try, what would you say to people who are listening to the show today who identify as Christian? | ||
| To use the contemporary expression, they might go to church. | ||
| Let's say they go to church every Sunday and they don't necessarily believe the supernatural truths of the narrative, but they haven't confronted internally the fact that they don't actually believe that. | ||
| What would you say to them? | ||
| As if it were to give the red pill to try and encourage people to have that wider supernatural horizon. | ||
| Well, I think it's interesting to look back on what we experienced when Jordan Peterson first burst onto the scene and was telling young men to tidy their bedrooms. | ||
| It was this sort of idea that first you get yourself in order and you get your house in order before you turn to other things. | ||
| And while we can lambast the hierarchy completely correctly and certainly overturn some of the tables of the tax collectors in the temple right now, what we really need to be doing is looking at our own communities and our own selves and assessing, like you said, what does it actually mean to be Christian? | ||
| And for me, the reality is that most people don't really know the answer. | ||
| The answer is actually very simple to live as Christ commanded and to start with your own family first. | ||
| And that's not to preach some kind of moralistic concept. | ||
| It's just the fact that when you do that, when you start with those basic building blocks, everything else gets a lot better a lot quicker because you see the impact so much more quickly on your parish and your parish impacts your local area, your local area impacts your governance and your governance ultimately starts turning again to God. | ||
| Now, I'm not suggesting that we don't need a top-down revolution because otherwise it wouldn't be in politics and I wouldn't be advocating for that. | ||
| But I also think that there can be a bottom-up revolution. | ||
| And we're seeing it particularly in the Catholic Church with young families returning to tradition because wherever they go, others follow and what they find is a happier and better quality of life. | ||
| Of course, their quality of life will be better when they're married, when they're having children, when they can associate with other young adults in a refreshing and normal environment, which, you know, to actually steal from my parish priest's sermon last Sunday, Canon Martin Edwards, who I'll give a shout out to, regularly appears on GB News and is a wonderful advocate for the faith. | ||
| He said in his sermon that pointing to the dais, which I thought had always been built up above the church for the choir, it was actually built to accommodate 100 extra people because they had to open every wall of the church. | ||
| This is in the 60s to accommodate those people who are coming to Mass on a Sunday. | ||
| Well, now we consider ourselves a fairly strong congregation and we don't even fully fill three quarters of the church. | ||
| So just to point out what happens when faith is adhered to, it's not all about the spiritual. | ||
| The spiritual feeds the physical and the physical in turn gets much better. | ||
| And I think people took their faith more seriously, things might get a lot better. | ||
| Yeah, I remember seeing that cephologists who study, no, not syphologists, they study Poles. | ||
| The demographers had studied the way in the Golden Age of the 1950s had studied the number of conversions from Protestantism to Catholicism. | ||
| This is in the 50s. | ||
| And they said that if that rate continues by the end of this present century, there would be no Protestants left in America because they would have all converted. | ||
| That is how strong the Catholic Church was in the 1950s. | ||
| In Fulton Sheen's heyday, by the way. | ||
| And our Heiling Shepherds took a sledgehammer to that. | ||
| And absolutely smashed it to pieces, and they did it deliberately, and I think one of the reasons that they did that is exactly the point that you were just saying in the first half of the show, because of the, the communist infiltration in the Catholic Church. | ||
| You said something that I just want to ask you, if I can you know what I'm gonna. | ||
| I'll throw you the question, then I'll give another shout out to our sponsors and I'll come back for your take on it. | ||
| You'd mention I want you to say a quick bit more, if you wouldn't mind, about believing in top-down revolution, if you will, in politics, but bottom-up revolution with with regards to the church. | ||
| I'm interested in in that dynamic and what you might mean by it, and we'll come to you in two minutes 90 seconds for your breakdown on that. | ||
|
unidentified
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| Joseph Robertson, just to give you, if you wouldn't mind, just tell me what you meant by that, that sort of contrary direction between activism in the church and activism in politics. | ||
| Well, ultimately, the only way we triumph is through kingship, the kingship of Christ the King. | ||
| And so ultimately, the only way we will triumph is through top-down, glorious restoration rather than using the word revolution, which is a filthy communist word, of course. | ||
| But to use the word restoration, we will see at some point, of course, according to pretty much all prophecy and scripture and tradition, a triumph for Christ the King. | ||
| And if you're Catholic, of course, you believe that that comes through the reign of an angelic pope and an angelic monarch who worked together in harmony to restore Catholic civilization. | ||
| And so you can't take away the fact that top-down and political infrastructure is important. | ||
| But what you can say is that for that to be effected and for change to be given the right grounding and environment to thrive in, you have to at first start with your community. | ||
| And as I mentioned, Jordan Peterson, I think if Jordan had also been a devout Christian, his message would have gone even further, perhaps, than it already did. | ||
| Because tidying your bedroom is all very well, but to what end and to what purpose? | ||
| And thus you have to consider deeper questions in life: why am I here? | ||
| What am I here for? | ||
| And what can I do for others, as opposed to what can I do purely for myself? | ||
| And when you start to ask those questions, you will see very quickly that everything around you becomes far better. | ||
| As we saw, I believe, with individuals like Charlie Kirk, who, in my mind, was the ultimate story of someone who perhaps didn't start out as fundamental in their beliefs as he nobly and heroically died. | ||
| But he certainly became alike to those around him, not just politically, but also in his family and in the upbringing of their children. | ||
| And so he was able to do a lot more positive impacts than he would have done if he had purely focused on the secular and the political. | ||
| Yeah, that's the importance about the supernatural narrative, I think, that underlays the political. | ||
| Look, our fight is not against flesh and blood, it's against thrones, dominations, powers, what is it, in the spiritual realm. | ||
| That's fundamentally the battle that's taking place. | ||
| What we see here in the political sphere is a reflection. | ||
| It's a manifestation of that deep underlying spiritual battle. | ||
| And I think what you see, you know, and I think both the way Charlie Kirk lived, the way he died, is an illustration of that for those who have eyes to see. | ||
| I think that's a good point, well made. | ||
| And I think, and I expect, as we've been talking about on this show for some time, that the graphic and public nature of Charlie Kirk's martyrdom is leading and will lead to a very strong revival, not only in America, but elsewhere in the world. | ||
| Look, that's how time flies. | ||
| We only have a few moments left. | ||
| Tell me about the statue, the new statue that's been erected in Brazil to Our Lady of Fatima. | ||
| Because looking at the statistics, the statue itself is substantially, it's not just larger than the Statue of Liberty, the statue part of the Statue of Liberty, it's significantly larger, like 177 foot for the statue which we see here on the screen, compared to 150 foot for the Statue of Liberty. | ||
| Tell me why have the Brazilians done this? | ||
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Why have they erected this statue? | |
| Well, that comparison is an important one because I don't want to sound heretical to your American viewership, but of course the Statue of Liberty is modelled more or less on a French prostitute if you go back into history. | ||
| And it's quite interesting that Our Lady has triumphed in that regard again. | ||
| But leaving that analogy to one side, I think that this is important because it shows that the church is alive and well in many ways that can't necessarily be seen in the hierarchy, that people do still have a fundamental belief in where we're being led, if not by our pastors, then certainly by God himself. | ||
| And ultimately, what this story signifies is something far deeper, which is a belief in the apparitions of Fatima, which, of course, if your viewers are educated on this topic, they will know was something that was proclaimed not just by Catholics, but also by atheists, by communists, in fact, who saw it take place. | ||
| The apparition of Our Lady of Fatima to three small children in a town in Portugal in the early 1900s, which led to correct prophecies on the outbreak of the Second World War, of the overtake of communism, of the overtake of the church, of infiltration, of counter-revolution, and ultimately of the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, which I think is such an important and vital signal. | ||
| And of course, you know, the significance of South America can't be lost on anyone. | ||
| The fact that so much of the faith is still thriving there, even if it's tainted in some parts by modernism. | ||
| And it shows this story, I think, a message of hope that ultimately, you know, things are under control. | ||
| The Patriots are in control and they're in heaven. | ||
| What can you give me 60 seconds, 90 seconds, on the elements of the Fatima, the Our Lady of Fatima apparitions? | ||
| Because I think it's an incredible story. | ||
| I have a very strong devotion to it. | ||
| Well, it's a very important devotion. | ||
| And to anybody, Protestant or Catholic alike, or even atheist who's watching, I would encourage you to go and to look into it more deeply because the reality is that it's a very, very important story and one that can't be overlooked in our present times. | ||
| Now, I would encourage your viewers to go and read about it rather than for me to tell them because there's a very significant part of it that I think most people don't know. | ||
| And that's the significance of the name Fatima itself. | ||
| So the town of Fatima is called Fatima because it was the location where a young Catholic Portuguese slash Spanish prince fell in love with a Muslim girl named Fatima. | ||
| And of course, Fatima is the highest of Muhammad's daughters in the Islamic belief. | ||
| He fell in love with her after he had also killed her father in a war and taken the town, which later became Fatima. | ||
| And he married her. | ||
| She converted to Catholicism and she became such a good and holy woman that the townfolk called the town Fatima. | ||
| Now that's very important because if Fatima is the highest daughter of Muhammad and Our Lady is after all the, in Catholic tradition, the person who triumphs over the crescent moon, and I think there's an important point to take there, triumphing in Fatima and appearing in Fatima in her glorious and final form as queen is quite a significant thing and I'll let you continue on that thought. | ||
| No, I had no idea about that. | ||
| I always thought it was strange that there was a town in Portugal, being such a strong Catholic nation, had a town that was named after I think it was Mohamed's, wasn't? | ||
| Wasn't Fatima Mohammed's? | ||
| No no, you're right. | ||
| Yeah, that's right. | ||
| His daughter um, I always thought that was a bit odd. | ||
| Um, I never quite sort of understood the background of that. | ||
| Well, she's considered Fatima in in Islamic culture, is considered the highest woman in heaven, even above the mother of Jesus and, of course, I think this was a subtle way from heaven to correct that balance. | ||
|
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Um, Joseph Robertson. | |
| Thanks very much for taking time um, to come on the show today. | ||
| I know you're preparing to go to America very quickly. | ||
| What are you doing in America? | ||
| When are you leaving? | ||
| Can people reach out to you there? | ||
| Yeah, absolutely. | ||
| I'll be in Texas for the first half of next week, then in DC for the weekend brief trip to New York and then back to DC, and if anyone is around, they can reach me on Twitter at JR Types, also on my sub stack of the same name or on Instagram. | ||
| Josephrobertson UK and I'm out there doing some very interesting things. | ||
| There's a new show launching which I can't talk about just yet, but which I suggest people stay tuned on and find out more. | ||
| That is literally all we have time for. | ||
| Wish you a safe journey out there and a safe return, Joseph. | ||
| Many thanks. | ||
| Thanks to all Americans for Thanksgiving tomorrow. | ||
| Thanks to Wendell and his great team at Bell America's Voice. |
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