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July 16, 2025 - Bannon's War Room
48:55
Episode 4634: Polling Shows Release The Files; Back From BRICS On The Rio Reset
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Well at the end of 50 days if we don't have a deal it's going to be uh too bad.
Should Zelensky get more aggressive?
Yeah, the tariffs are going to go on and other sanctions go on.
Should Zelensky target Moscow?
Should Zelensky target Moscow, sir?
Should Zelensky target Moscow or deeper into Russia?
He shouldn't target Moscow.
Is that why you gave him more weapons though?
No, we're not looking to do that.
Financial Times, excuse me, is reporting, according to two people familiar, that there was a call between Vladimir Zelensky and Donald Trump where Trump asked Vladimir Zelensky if he could hit Moscow from Ukraine.
Can he attack Moscow from Ukraine?
Can you hit St. Petersburg too?
Trump asked on the call, according to these sources, speaking to FT.
They said Zelensky replied, absolutely, we can if you give us the weapons.
And that Trump signaled his backing for the idea, describing the strategy as intended to make them, the Russians, feel the pain and force the Kremlin to the negotiating table, according to two people who were briefed on that call.
Donald Trump was asked a version of this on the White House lawn.
He denied it.
But this reporting, does that change anything with Vladimir Putin?
I mean, you know, hell hat no fury like a Trump scorn.
I think, again, the journey Trump has made here is significant.
I don't think it changes too much for Putin because, you know, these discussions about attacking deep into Russian territory are not new.
There were similar discussions that were had during the Biden administration.
And ultimately, where things ended up was that you don't want to go too far there.
You don't want to acknowledge American involvement in that because that's where the nuclear deterrent comes into play.
And so my sense is that much as though Trump's pivot here is absolutely worth noting, as we are all doing, it kind of takes you back to where we were a year ago with the Biden administration, which is also to say, Katie, it's still a bit of a stalemate.
It still doesn't mean we're any closer to an end to the war.
It doesn't mean that we're any closer to resolving the problem we have with Putin.
And Putin knows all of this.
In a sense, he's always had time on his side.
So he's going to keep playing that game.
By the way, the White House in this reporting has said that it was taken out of context, that Donald Trump was just asking the questions.
The Attorney General briefed you on the DOJ and FBI review, the findings of that review.
The Attorney General briefed you on the reference review.
On what?
On the DOJ and FBI review.
On what?
On what subject?
FCA.
On FCA.
The review of the files.
The Attorney General payment on your finger.
A very, very quick briefing.
Did she tell you, what did she tell you about the review?
And specifically, did she tell you at all that your name appeared in the file in the she's given us just a very quick briefing and in terms of the credibility of the different things that they've seen and I would say that you know these files were made up by Comey they were made up by Obama they were made up by the Biden information you know we and we went through years of that with the Russia Russia Russia hoax with all of the different things that we had to go
through.
We've gone through years of it, but she's handled it very well and it's going to be up to her.
Whatever she thinks is credible, she should release.
The president said today you would release credible files related to Mr. Epstein.
Are you prepared to do that and when would you?
Our memo, today our memo speaks for itself and we'll get back to you on anything else.
I haven't seen all of his statements today.
Thank you.
How did you respond to the VAGA base that has expressed a lot of frustration about it?
We're going to fight to keep America safe again and we're fighting together as a team.
That's what's so important right now.
We've got a war on drugs.
We've got a war on human trafficking.
We've got cartels in this country and we are going to do, we've got foreign adversaries around this world as well and we're all going to work together as a team to fight to keep America safe again and I can tell you that's what we're all committed to.
Thank you.
Thank you all for being here.
This is the primal scream of a dying regime.
Pray for our enemies because we're going medieval on these people.
I got a free shot.
All these networks lying about the people.
The people have had a belly full of it.
I know you don't like hearing that.
I know you've tried to do everything in the world to stop that, but you're not going to stop it.
It's going to happen.
And where do people like that go to share the big line?
MAGA media.
I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.
Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose?
If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.
War Room.
Here's your host, Stephen K. Mann.
Okay.
Tuesday, 15 July, year of our Lord, 2025, a quite wild day in the nation's capital.
The, um, so the genius act, they took down the rule.
The Republicans did.
That's not going forward.
At least right now, they're going to have another vote at five o'clock.
We're going to cover it live.
Guess what?
They've canceled all the votes.
Any remaining votes?
And maybe tomorrow, the big hang up there among a number of things, maybe the, um, there's a backdoor to a central bank digital currency, which some of the people on the right have brought up.
We'll try to get to the bottom of that.
Uh, president Trump went to Pittsburgh, I think $90 billion of investment going on.
Um, he's, uh, it's made some statements about artificial intelligence.
We're in our arms race on artificial intelligence.
We have to be the superpower in artificial intelligence.
We'll get to all that.
Um, a walk back.
Remember this morning, we talked about the financial time story and particularly, uh, about, uh, giving, uh, the, uh, or selling to NATO who will then give to the Ukrainians, not just offensive weapons and patriots, but also offensive weapons, um, and including maybe weapons that could get, that could reach moscow and st. Petersburg.
The Financial Times Had a quite detailed report about it.
President came out right there and kind of walked it back.
He's not talking about that.
Later, somebody told the press that it was just President Trump asking an information question.
So we'll get more to that in a moment.
I want to get Mark Mitchell up.
The Ras Mussen team traditionally has about the best polling of MAGA and the best polling of President Trump's movement and the best polling around President Trump.
He did say, hey, Pam, I've told the Attorney General if there are any files that she deems should be released, you can go ahead and do it.
She was asked later at a conference over at the Justice Department about it.
She said she hadn't heard that.
So there's a little bit of, I would say, not as hard as it was the other day.
Also believed that Bongino is back at work over at the FBI.
So, Mark, we've known you for a long time.
You've been on the show almost like a, not more than a contributor, almost like a co-host.
The reason is you guys do such a great job and you have such a tremendous ability to articulate like very few in polling can, what really the MAGA movement is thinking about at the time and where it's headed.
You've done some polling on this specific topic.
And in fact, I just saw some, I guess, youGov economist polling that looks like it lays right on top of yours.
It's quite close to it.
Can you walk us through what you're finding out about this Epstein situation and the MAGA base?
Yeah, but before I get into that polling, I just want to start at a high level and say Donald Trump came in with really great approval numbers.
He's brought a lot of foreign investment back to the United States.
He just signed his signature legislation less than two weeks ago, and it's the summer.
The Democrats are imploding.
He took out the Iranian nuclear weapons program, which was insanely popular.
And so where his approval rating should be right now is soaring, and it's not.
It's plunging.
It's one point away from the lowest net approval rating that he's had this entire cycle.
And the last time he had a rating, it was negative five was back in April.
That was when the market imploded 15%.
So people are trying to say this isn't a big deal.
People are trying to say nobody wants this Epstein information out.
It's an absolute misdirection.
This is horrifying.
And if it isn't corrected, it threatens derailing Trump's agenda, getting rid of his political capital.
If this isn't fixed, this might hang over Trump's administration.
It could be his Afghanistan going into the fall with Democrats still pounding away.
How come you flip-flopped on Epstein?
And they are, in my opinion, there are some very easy fixes.
But I just want to get to the polling now.
And this is brutal.
When I got these crosstabs back.
But hang on one second.
I just want to go back to your opening.
Given the role he's been on and the run he's been on, and particularly the other day, even the media was saying they've never seen a president on this kind of run, and it kind of kicks off the summer where there's less interest in politics, but it's just his momentum's building.
You would have anticipated with landmark legislation, with although we didn't like the involvement in Iran, he did dramatically end the 12-day war and didn't have regime change.
I mean, everything he's doing is kind of clicking.
Just that being, if this hadn't come up a Sunday, a week ago, what would you have anticipated his polling?
Where would you see the trend line going?
Where would you see his polling going on a national basis and with the mega movement?
Well, just talking about his job approval rating, he hit net plus eight June 15th, which was also, I will admit, the first day that Israel attacked Iran.
I think it was June 13th.
And it's been downhill since then.
So he's lost 12 points now.
He's underwater, four points.
People who've been following us know that we've been putting out a chart pretty much daily that overlays all the presidential net approvals going back to Obama won.
And where I was going into July 4th was I said, well, Trump's probably a day or two away from crossing over Obama's numbers.
And where are we now?
Donald Trump is crossing under Joe Biden's numbers.
And so that's a pretty big reversal in less than a week.
And the biggest news, I mean, that I can attribute to this, it's like maybe people have heartburned that the one big beautiful bill was the messaging was a bit of a mess.
It doesn't cut enough.
Maybe it's the news that Republican establishment is playing footsie with amnesty because of all the people who love slave labor.
But the big one is Epstein and people keep downplaying it.
But this is not about a guy who died in 2019.
This is about a representation of two-tier justice and about unaccountable government.
And I don't think, I mean, listen, back in March or it was the end of February, voters were let down on the Epstein thing too.
But that's because they thought Trump was, okay, he'll just bring it later.
It's been a campaign promise.
And I know that he didn't specifically quote it very many times, but this has been basically a proxy for government accountability and redress for the deep state.
And so what happened, in my opinion, in the last few days is that there was a major rug pull and it's affecting his polling.
Now, what do I think might happen?
I think his approval will probably recover somewhat.
I don't think he's going to be as poorly reviewed as Joe Biden.
And I don't think that this is big as Afghanistan.
But the problem is, is that this is not going to go away.
It's not going to go away.
The Democrats are going to keep talking about it because they need something to talk about.
And Democrats are plus two on the generic ballot right now.
And so if Donald Trump is going to reverse the historical tendency of the out-of-power party regaining the Senate and the House, he can't just be kicking around at 48% and go into 2026 with a whole lot of open questions about strong campaign promises.
And again, I think there's an easy way to reverse this.
And I hear some people talking about it, but the FC polling is horrifying.
Like, I haven't seen numbers these brutal.
If you want me to get to the crosstabs, I want you to go to the crosstabs.
No, go to the crosstabs.
We want to see the receipts here.
Okay.
This is all taken after the announcement that there was nothing to see here.
Case closed.
We saw the video.
He Did not get murdered.
Voters aren't buying it.
They think Jeffrey Epstein was murdered, 47% to 31% suicide.
Only 33% of Republicans, even though the Trump administration said so, only one-third of Republicans said that he committed suicide, 27% of independents.
This one's even worse.
The FBI and the Federal Department of Justice have been recently concluding an investigation which found that Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide and that the Epstein client list, that Epstein did not keep a client list of men involved in sex trafficking operation.
Do you believe the FBI and the Department of Justice are telling the truth about Epstein?
21% yes.
This is a country that 50% voted for Donald Trump.
21% yes.
56% no.
Only 27% of Republicans, they're not buying the administration line.
15% of independents.
Donald Trump started this administration with plus six among independents.
He's negative 19 net approval with independents right now, by the way, which is closer to your opinion.
The Epstein case is now closed, echoing Pam Bondi's assessment.
16%.
Or there are dozens of powerful and wealthy offenders who need to face justice.
68%.
68% of Democrats.
66% of Republicans.
69% of Independents.
Only 14% of Independents say this case is closed.
And so maybe these numbers will moderate.
Maybe other major issues will take – I mean, Epstein's been in the news for years now, and this is, in my opinion, like I said, a representation of the two-tier system of justice, a canary in the coal mine that maybe we're not going to face accountability on things like the vaccine, on things like the weaponized Department of Justice, on things like the FBI.
Hang on one second.
We're going to hold you through the break.
Mark Mitchell Rasmussen on polling.
Next.
Waru, here's your host, Stephen K. Mann.
Okay, Philip Patrick's going to join us.
The team over at Birch Gold now, and I think you're going to see some turbulence.
President once again reiterated, hey, if the Russians have not complied and they're not sitting down at a table and trying to work on a ceasefire and a peace deal, not just sanctions, additional sanctions, but secondary sanctions.
He actually hinted to even more economic warfare on one today.
He said, hey, it was misinterpreted, what I said, the Financial Times misinterpreted, or people in the room misinterpreted what I was saying about the use of offensive weapons.
But they got 50 days to comply, and then there's going to be some, they're going to have another wave of kind of economic warfare.
He was pretty specific about that.
In times of turbulence, more than ever, gold has been a hedge.
It's been a hedge for 5,000 years.
You ought to find out why.
Birchgold.com slash bannon end of the dollar empire, seven free episodes or installments.
Philip Patrick's on here.
We're working on number eight right now, coming back from the RIA reset.
The BRICS nations pretty savvy about how they were going to go about this and the bilateral trade deals and try to hide it, the de-dollarization, the de-dollarization of the world's economy.
They want to get away from the United States as having the control factor.
As people said on the one of the questions they asked President Trump was, could he use the SWIFT system to shut down all Russian transactions?
The reality is we can use the SWIFT system to cut them out internationally.
That's why it's very important to understand the dollar as the prime reserve currency, the impact it has on your life and the impact it has on the world.
Birchgold.com slash band end of the dollar empire.
Check it out today.
And we're going to get Philip Patrick on here at the bottom.
Ras Musson, do me a favor.
I mean, Mark Mitchell, do me a favor.
I want to go back to something you said.
I want you to explain to people because I think this you guys have been doing this daily tracking poll all the way back to Obama's term, correct?
Absolutely.
Yep.
And people have used that as a gauge.
You guys have been extraordinarily accurate.
And you can see inflection points, particularly when you say like Afghanistan, there's inflection points in a presidency that you can go back later and see in your tracking poll where it hit.
You made a comment that on July 4th, around July 4th, that President Trump was close to passing Obama on the tracking poll.
Was Obama at, I guess, was he at the highest?
Is he like a standard for you guys to look at?
And why was that important that President Trump was close to you thought within two days would pass that?
Well, it bucks the historical trend of this idea of a summer of disillusionment where people were promised a whole lot of things on the stump and then realized that the establishment candidates can't actually come in and change anything.
And what's changed over time is that Obama came in with a really, really, really high honeymoon.
It was in the 60s, almost 70%.
But of course, by the summer, he was kicking around in the high 40s.
That's happened to every president, but they've come in with lower and lower honeymoons.
That happened to Trump.
He came in with a 53.
It got up to a 55.
He's been doing all right.
Net plus two, net plus three on average, you know, keeping the supporters, picking up a little bit support from the fall.
And you look at it and say, well, there's really nothing major that can happen here.
They already threw every hoax in the world against this guy, and the Democrats are in complete disarray.
So short of some kind of black swan, some kind of economic implosion, some kind of, you know, World War III kicking off in a way that he was unable to control, he's been on the world stage for 10 years.
He's Teflon Don.
People basically know who he is.
And so for all of the sudden, an unforced error, and I really think it is, an unforced error comes like this and just steals his thunder.
Thunder, we had our June economic confidence index was the highest print that we've had since the summer of 2021.
Our unemployment rate that we measure every month is going down.
There's all of these reasons that people should be positive.
And what is everybody going to talk about probably for months is this Epstein thing.
And it's also because there's just so many obvious gaslighting and fake logic.
And listen, this is not about the list.
People don't want to see the list.
The reason they're asking the list is because they don't trust the FBI anymore to do investigations.
This is the FBI that, under Biden, a majority of people said was Joe Biden's personal Gestapo.
And so, this is the part that I don't think the Trump administration appreciates.
This was an election.
People say, oh, it's the economy.
No, it was an election about institutional trust and the death of the American dream.
But 30% trust the federal government.
Strong majority think the DOJ was weaponized.
72% are concerned we're living in a police state.
We have these numbers over and over again.
And a really big one, how important is the rule of law, ensuring public officials are held to the same standard of justice as other citizens, 94% important, 82% very important.
That's as close as it gets to 100.
You wouldn't see somebody like oxygen wouldn't even get 82% very important.
So this idea of two-tiered justice is just absolutely an anathema to people, and we're going to be talking about it.
That's the problem.
And how do they get rid of this?
They have an $11 billion a year federal bureau of investigation.
Where are the investigations?
Just because we have new people at the head of these administrations is not enough to restore public trust.
The trust in these institutions was destroyed under Biden.
It takes extraordinary transparency, in my opinion, to give that back, that trust back to voters.
You can't just say nothing to see here.
Trust me, bro, is not going to work to restore trust.
It should be, hey, this week we're launching this investigation.
Here's how many agents are on.
Here's the general plan of attack.
Here's where you're going to hear something about it.
Like, it's not about going on Fox News.
It's about having this substance.
And so here's the thing.
I mean, if people investigate it.
Hang on one second.
Hang on one second.
John Salin was on here on Friday, and he talked about this institutional trust in President Trump, and he kind of announced a leak that was coming out of the FBI and the Justice Department that there is now, and you saw a little bit of it in the New York Post, that, you know, Brennan and Cuomey, there's a criminal investigation.
Now, it turns out it's much broader.
They're very close.
And what I understand is within a couple of days or potentially early next week of announcing a special counsel or special prosecutor that's going to take in your issue of institutional trust.
It's going to go back and look at Crossfire Hurricane.
It's going to look at the FBI and the CIA and the nullification project and the Russia hoax.
It may look at, it's going to supposedly look at the 2020 election.
It's going to look at January 6th, other things of going after President Trump and weaponizing.
Is that, if that was announced and a systematic program of that, is that something you think would start to change people's opinions that people are serious and going to get on top of this, sir?
I hope.
I think it would be a good first start, although people have seen these kind of investigations before.
Let's not talk about Bill Barr and Durham and all this other stuff.
I would love to see one about election integrity.
I would love to see more information about Butler.
These are things.
Listen, forget about the JFK files.
Like we had, okay, a federal agency ostensibly involved in killing a sitting president.
Where was the root cause and corrective action?
Just the fact that they're all dead isn't good enough.
Like, how did that happen in an agency?
And then not only that, in the last 12 months, you have the leading candidate of a presidential election was literally shot.
And we've heard basically nothing.
Who's leading that investigation?
What have they found?
How much money are they spending?
The public have an interest in knowing this kind of information.
And the existence of the investigation, in my opinion, is probably not enough given the last 10 years of experience about how these things go.
So I'd love to see more of this roll out.
And maybe this is stuff that's not possible, but I'm sorry.
This is the situation.
People do not trust the government absolutely at all.
And again, there needs to be, people keep saying, like, here's the political reality.
Mike Johnson, I'm sorry, but these are the rules.
Well, everybody knows the Democrats are going to break the rules.
And I'm not saying necessarily break the rules, but break a sweat because the optics are the one big beautiful bill, in my opinion, just look like business as usual in Washington, D.C. How are you going to win in 2026?
You know, let's spitball.
If the Democrats take control of the Senate, are we still going to have the filibuster rule, 60-vote rule?
I don't know.
A lot of important people I talk to say no.
So if that's the case, let's just get rid of it.
And here's an idea.
Instead of business as usual 4,000-page bills, how about you put out a super popular bill every week all the way up to the 2026 election?
I could list a lot off the top of my head, including things like auditing elections, paper ballots, voter ID, e-verify, all of these things.
We just got 28 Trump executive orders codified into law.
Okay, we got another 100.
That'll get us all the way to like December.
Let's do it.
And so I don't, unless you see rapid things like this, how is Trump going to unravel this labyrinthian beast within whom very little, in my opinion, has been done from a root cause and corrective action perspective to restore trust in people?
Now they came in.
Again, here's the paradox.
Right direction polling is at 44% right now.
It's still super high.
I don't think this is lost for Trump.
But this one, you can't just pretend that it's not going to be a problem hanging over this administration.
The Democrats have nothing to run on.
So what do you think they're going to run on?
They're going to run on releasing the Epstein list.
They're going to blame Trump for it.
And it's going to be ugly.
If they get in control of the House, guess what?
Their first commission is going to be.
They're going to have a commission to look into the Epstein list and do what Republicans said they would and didn't.
Will that affect Trump's numbers?
Probably not.
But the Republicans need every little bit of help they can get right now.
It's Democrat plus three or four on the real clear politics aggregate.
What do Republicans need going into the fall of 26 in order to maintain control of the government?
It's probably something six, seven, or eight points to the right of that, plus ACT Lou getting dissolved, plus like whatever else.
I don't know.
But again, Hard to predict, and I'm pounding on the table, but this is not just me.
Like, I'm talking to other people who are having the same concerns.
I don't know if you saw it, but four of us, honest pollsters that do a good job, got together.
We founded the National Association of Independent Polling.
I think people will be happy that an organization like that exists that can, you know, counteract the mainstream media continued gaslighting that's only getting worse.
It's only going to get worse.
And the people I'm talking to there, you know them.
Like you've had Rich Barris on.
We've talked to Matt Towery.
This is bad.
This is affecting everybody's numbers.
Yep.
Can you, what's your social media and YouTube?
We've got about 20 seconds.
We'll have you back on tomorrow, the next day.
Very important.
We're going to go to the next one.
Rasmussen underscore poll, honest pollster on Twitter.
Rasmussen underscore poll on YouTube.
Mark Mitchell, you're the best.
Incredible.
Richard Barris, they're worried.
The best guys we got are worried.
Short break.
50 days.
What happens now?
Do you talk to Vladimir Putin?
Well, at the end of 50 days, if we don't have a deal, it's going to be too bad.
Should Zelensky get more aggressive?
Yeah, the tariffs are going to go on and other sanctions go on.
Should Zelensky target Moscow?
Should Zelensky target Moscow, sir?
Should Zelensky target Moscow or deeper into Russia?
He shouldn't target Moscow.
Is that why you gave him more weapons though?
Wait, are you going to wait?
You started to wait and wait?
I don't know if you have to go back to the game.
No, we're not looking to do this.
Financial Times, excuse me, is reporting, according to two people familiar, that there was a call between Vladimir Zelensky and Donald Trump where Trump asked Vladimir Zelensky if he could hit Moscow from Ukraine.
Can he attack Moscow from Ukraine?
Can you hit St. Petersburg too?
Trump asked on the call, according to these sources, speaking to FT.
They said Zelensky replied, absolutely, we can if you give us the weapons.
And that Trump signaled his backing for the idea, describing the strategy as intended to make them, the Russians, feel the pain and force the Kremlin to the negotiating table, according to two people who were briefed on that call.
Donald Trump was asked a version of this on the White House lawn.
He denied it.
But this reporting, does that change anything with Vladimir Putin?
I mean, you know, hell hack no fury like a Trump scorn.
I think, again, the journey Trump has made here is significant.
I don't think it changes too much for Putin because, you know, these discussions about attacking deep into Russian territory are not new.
There were similar discussions that were had during the Biden administration.
And ultimately, where things ended up was that you don't want to go too far there.
You don't want to acknowledge American involvement in that because that's where the nuclear deterrent comes into play.
And so my sense is that much as though Trump's pivot here is absolutely worth noting, as we are all doing, it kind of takes you back to where we were a year ago with the Biden administration, which is also to say, Katie, it's still a bit of a stalemate.
It still doesn't mean we're any closer to an end to the war.
It doesn't mean that we're any closer to resolving the problem we have with Putin.
And Putin knows all of this.
In a sense, he's always had time on his side.
So he's going to keep playing that game.
By the way, the White House in this reporting has said that it was taken out of context that Donald Trump was just asking the questions.
Okay, welcome back.
Mark Mitchell there.
The key is about the institutional trust.
And, you know, people have lost trust in the FBI.
They've lost trust in the CIA.
We're going to have Jefferson Morley on tomorrow.
Jefferson is the amazing writer and wrote the book, Ghost About Angleton, one of the most fascinating characters in American history.
It's about the front page story this morning of what Mitchell just alluded to.
The CIA, with direct knowledge of Oswald, and I mean very direct knowledge of Oswald, what he was doing in New Orleans and other places.
Turns out he was been tracked by the CIA.
A formal file was opened on him in 1959.
They knew every movement that Oswald made.
And the head of psychological warfare at the Miami office of the CIA, and really the guy heading up all the anti-Castro activities, knew about him very closely, actually was monitoring him, might have been even more involved than that, and then lied to everybody.
So the institutional trust, because it looks like there's some sort of involvement that now can be shown of the CIA in the assassination of President Kennedy.
Also, you have the judiciary and the CIA and the FBI in the coup against Richard Nixon.
And obviously, all of this against President Trump.
And I've had a ringside see of this.
You know, the deep states come after President Trump.
And I think Mark Mitchell is 100% correct.
We're going to have Richard Barris on tomorrow.
I will give you a heads up.
Richard Barris, once again, a guy that understands the Trump movement MAGA, his numbers are not that far off.
I mean, there's numbers layer on top of each other.
And the economists, youGov, who are not friends of the movement, have a pollout that's almost as bad.
So somehow this has to be addressed.
And that's the last thing you need.
In these midterm elections, you need everybody up on the, you know, at the on watch.
And right now, you can already tell people are so frustrated with this, and particularly the way it's being handled, that if they, you know, they just want it to go away with them.
When they go away, you're going to lose some of your best people.
These are your best people.
These are not sunshine soldiers and summer patriots.
These are the hardest core of the hardcore, the people that have been with President Trump forever, the people that had his back in those dark days of 21.
I want to play those.
Philip, I want you on here for the bricks, right?
And the post of bricks, but there's something deeper that's already developing, and that is President Trump has given this 50-day, because you can tell he's very frustrated.
He's tried to deal with Putin.
It's not working.
There's many geopolitical and geostrategic Elements to this that he may have not calculated what Putin and these guys intend to do, the KGB.
But when he talks about the giving weapons, the shipping weapons, his real thing he keeps coming back to is sanctions, even deeper sanctions.
And no one's really focused on this yet.
Secondary sanctions would mean sanctions on India, but particularly sanctions on China.
Given everything you saw down in Rio, and coupled with we had some, I think we had good news today on inflation.
President Trump, it looks like the tariffs are kicking in like he felt without inflation, price increases.
Looks like inflation's in a good spot, not a gray spot, but in a good spot.
Obviously, capital markets are responding favorably.
You got guys like Ken Langone, who's a Trump hater, saying how great he is probably the greatest president of the United States.
And that's a Wall Street guy saying that.
You know, how concerned are you for what's happened in the last 24, 48 hours about the potential additional economic warfare around Ukraine?
And how do you think that that will impact gold?
Look, I think it's tough.
In terms of its impact on gold, I think the more global instability we see, the more trade wars ignite, the more sort of wars we see around the world.
Ultimately, this instability creates a good climate for gold, and gold is moving gangbusters in this climate.
So short term, I think it's good for gold.
Longer term, we'll have to see how it plays out.
Look, the one thing you talked about earlier, trust in our institutions being broken.
And I think a big part of the de-dollarization movement is we broke the trust, whether it was Biden back in 2022, back in 2014 or the 80s.
But trust in the United States has been broken.
And I think sanctions as a policy now, punitive sanctions, they can work shorter term to dissuade, right?
Maybe it'll be effective in sort of dissuading Putin.
I'm not sure if they will, in moving forward in Ukraine.
But I think longer term, we need carrots.
And I've said this many times.
We need carrots more than sticks.
I think sanctions dissuade people shorter term, but not longer term.
And I think this BRICS de-dollarization movement is all about slow and steady steps.
So what I've said for a long time is we need to start using carrots now, not sticks.
And I guess this is the one concern when it comes to de-dollarization that I do have with President Trump is when you've got a hammer and he's got the biggest hammer around, every problem starts to look like a nail.
Where I think we need to start getting a little bit smarter is when it comes to structuring trade deals.
I think what we need to do is move away from sort of punitive sanctions and move more towards incentives, right?
We can tie, you know, we have the largest consumer market in the world.
Let's use it to entice people, right?
We could tie market access to US dollar trade settlements and financial alignment.
We could offer industrial infrastructure and near shoring deals to those that align with us.
I think we have an opportunity now to make the world choose between our way and the other way.
And I think if we sort of layer carrots and not sticks, it may be more effective longer term.
He's got, you know, we have over $110 billion coming in now in tariffs.
No price increases, at least today, or dramatic price increases.
You saw, and I think this was your reporting, folks at Treasury and the White House saw that the sophisticated move, because a lot of people said, oh, the Bricks thing laid an egg.
They actually did a very sophisticated move in these bilateral deals and to have their central banks buy more gold and eventually settle up that way to a de-dollarization move.
It was part of, and I think the White House confirmed this, when he dropped the 50% tariffs on Lula and Brazil, you know, 30% of that, the 30% was tied to Bolsonaro and the trial, and it'll go away if Bolsonaro, the trial, but 20%, because he had threatened 10, I think he gave Lula another love tap of another 10 to get his attention that, you know, he's focused on this de-dollarization.
He said it's not going to happen on his watch.
I want to go back.
If you had to have a forcing function to force the world to choose between the two systems, because folks, you got to understand this brick system is starting to become a reality, right?
It's starting.
It's a very rudimentary stage, very nascent, but it's starting.
If you had to now force the world to choose, give that to me again, how would you do that?
Look, I think it's a case of not forcing the world to choose, but incentivizing them to move towards us again.
And I think there's a number of ways to do it, right?
Number one is through trade policy.
Like I said, we can force nations to make a choice and incentivize them with our market to do what we want them to do, right?
Secondly, I think ultimately trust has been broken, right?
We talk about trust in our institutions being eroded.
We need to increase that trust, right?
We need to start with a clean slate, whether that's auditing the Fed, treasury balance sheets, auditing Fort Knox potentially, although I don't want to let that sort of rabbit out the hat again.
But I think overall increasing transparency of our financial governance, that's a straight up win, right?
Secondly, like I said before, I think Secretary Besson has an opportunity in trade deals to set them up in a way that incentivizes people to work with us, right?
Offer infrastructure, near shoring deals that other countries cannot match, like I said, and essentially build regional friend-sharing blocks, right?
We've got an opportunity to push forward with soft power, right?
We killed USAID, and rightly so, by the way, it was full of waste, fraud, and abuse, but China are filling that gap with their Belt and Road initiative.
There's some smart things that we can do there.
And I think thirdly, what's the BRICS's competitive advantage?
They've essentially modernized the financial system, right?
They've built what could be a better system.
They're offering rival financial stacks, bilateral CBDCs, the new development bank.
We need to not complain.
We need to start competing, right?
We already have and own the global financial network.
Let's modernize it.
Let's internationalize Fed now, create real-time US dollar settlement for trusted partners.
Look, ultimately, what this is going to boil down to, I think, is a rebrand.
The dollar doesn't need to be the only option, but it does need to be the best option.
So I think we need to rebrand dollar leadership as transparent, growth-orientated, and built on mutual trust.
Look at the bricks in comparison, right?
They push compliance through political alignment and a common adversary.
How sustainable that is long-term, that's up to us.
But I think the U.S. now needs to compete through trust, performance, and stability.
The elephant in the run, though, right?
What all of this is dependent on is getting our fiscal house in order.
Because if we cannot do that, all of this is new.
Fantastic.
Are you upset right now that we can't get past the rescission bill?
It's $9.4 billion.
By the way, you should know to get the vote, I think to bring it to the floor, they had to cut $400 million off it on some program, I think, for Collins of Maine.
Are you concerned?
I'll tell you what, let's answer it when you get back because we're talking about cutting spending.
And right now, the rescissions package, which was supposed to be symbolic, that moving forward is now going from $9.4 billion to $9 billion because the Senate just doesn't have the stomach to cut spending.
Philip Patrick Birch Gold is with us.
Short break.
He'll be on the other side.
Spread the word on the Hom Company.
Let's take down the CCP.
Here's your host, Stephen K. Man.
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Philip Patrick, we can't, you know, and I keep arguing to the administration, just come with the impoundments or come with the pocket rescissions.
This taking so long on a rescission that's $9.4 billion, and you've got to carve $400 million just to get the rule passed and get it to the floor to debate.
It's just going to take too long with the spending cuts President Trump wants to do, and he has the ability to do it.
Just do the impoundments.
Also, all this argument, now they've started a formal process.
Scott Besson said it, I think, today, for looking for a new Fed chair.
President Trump's talking about a 300-basis point cut.
Right now, we know they're thinking of a 25-basis point cut, I guess, in September, based upon these numbers today.
Put this in perspective for us, both the spending cuts that we still need to have and President Trump still has the ability to do, coupled with the search for a new Fed chair.
And President Trump wants a 300-basis point cut sometime soon.
Sir, your thoughts.
Look, I understand exactly why President Trump wants the cut, right?
He's looking at $36.5 trillion of debt that already costs over a trillion dollars a year to refinance.
So we need the cuts.
If we want to grow the economy and get a handle on debt service, we need the interest rate cuts.
The Fed are in a tough position.
Powell says he's not political, but he's resisting lowering rates.
It's as if he really doesn't want to do so.
And this sort of spike in inflation, small spike, but spike, may be the catalyst for him to hold firm.
It's interesting because, you know, he should have done that back at the end of 2024 when Biden was in power, but he made the decision essentially not to do that.
So the Fed are looking more political now than they have done in a while.
Look, in terms of curbing spending, that has to be ultimately the priority, right?
And they're preparing now in the Senate for a procedural vote on the 9.4 billion recession package.
It targets 8.3 billion, I think, in foreign aid and 1.1 billion for public broadcasting.
Look, these cuts are important, right?
It would be the first real rollback since Clinton.
So it's a shift towards fiscal conservatism.
But ultimately, it's a drop in the bucket.
We have a lot more to find in terms of cuts if we want to balance the budget and give these guys a chance to grow the economy.
So there's a ton going on.
I don't see a 300 basis point cut coming from the Fed.
I think right now they're probably going to hold firm, wait and see what happens with inflation until the end of the year.
So I'm not sure President Trump's going to get his way, but it's interesting and we'll have to see how it plays out.
Now, we're going to go to work on the eighth installment.
Can you give just a couple of highlights of what you found in, now that you're back, your Rio trip, sir?
Look, what was so interesting, I mean, did we learn anything we didn't know?
No, the BRICS are certainly committed to de-dollarization.
We knew that when we came out, and I think it was confirmed when we got there.
What was interesting, though, was really understanding the motivations, right?
I always assumed that a lot of the motivation would be financial, right?
Watching debt exploding, watching deficit spending in the United States.
That was largely the catalyst.
But it turns out It wasn't the case.
This is a trust issue.
This goes back to the 1980s.
It goes back to 2022.
That the trust has been broken, which ultimately has encouraged me when it comes to solutions, right?
I've been not so encouraged when it comes to how we're going to curb spending and get our fiscal house in order, but I am encouraged when it comes to building trust globally.
So for me, I've come back motivated to try and find some solutions.
But ultimately, I understand now how committed these guys are, at least at this point, to de-dollarizing and how important it is that we stop it as soon as we can.
How do people, what I tell folks is I want them to build a relationship with you and your team.
How can they get there?
Because with this Ukraine situation heating up and folks, you might want to wish it away.
It's not going to go away, right?
It's not going to go away.
And I think President Trump, in this article in the FT and then what he said on the lawn heading to Pittsburgh today, you realize the seriousness of this, this kind of combination of economic warfare and kinetic war.
You add on top of that what's happening in Persia, the South China Sea, and you double that down with the BRICS nations.
These central banks continue to buy gold because they want to hedge.
Where do people go to get a relationship with you?
Because most important now, they build a relationship with Philip Patrick and his team at Birch Gold, sir.
It's birchgold.com forward slash Bannon.
Birchgold.com forward slash Bannon.
But I want to say one thing quickly.
Listen, these problems have been here for the last three years, right?
But we didn't talk about them.
Now we're talking about them.
They didn't start today, but at least the administration is addressing them.
And this is why I voted for President Trump.
This is why we need President Trump, because ultimately they understand the issues and they're working towards solutions.
It's going to be a bumpy road, but people have to understand the fact that it's out there in the mainstream.
This is encouraging.
The problems were there before.
They just weren't getting dealt with.
Sorry for that rant.
It's birchgold.com forward slash Bannon or text Bannon to 989898.
Philip Patrick, that's not a rant.
That's great.
Love having you on here, brother.
Welcome back from Rio.
Thank you, Steve.
We're going to take a short break.
Let's get, let's see, Mike Lindell's going to stick with us for top second hour.
Mike, let everybody know where do they go right now to make a call for the for a pillow.
We're going to tell your story on the other side.
Where do people go right now on my pillow?
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