June 26, 2025 - Bannon's War Room
47:53
Participants
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| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| This is the primal scream of a dying regime. | ||
| Pray for our enemies, because we're going to medieval on these people. | ||
| Here's not got a free shot on all these networks lying about the people. | ||
| The people have had a belly full of it. | ||
| I know you don't like hearing that. | ||
| I know you've tried to do everything in the world to stop that, but you're not going to stop it. | ||
| It's going to happen. | ||
| And where do people like that go to share the big lie? | ||
| MAGA Media. | ||
| I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience. | ||
| Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose? | ||
| If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved. | ||
|
unidentified
|
War Room. | |
| Here's your host, Stephen K. Band. | ||
| Wednesday, 25th of June, Annodomini 2025. | ||
| Hanwell here at the helm on Steve Bannon's War Room, doing what we do every Wednesday evening, which is picking through all the latest developments in both Catholic and evangelical spheres. | ||
| I'm looking at them really from a war room, a MAGA, an America first, where and when possible perspective. | ||
| Let's go straight into it because we've got a lot of articles to go through today, a lot of developments, a lot of news. | ||
| My usual guest, Frank Walker and Jenny Holland, join me. | ||
| We're going to start with Frank. | ||
| And this is something that Pope Leo, Holy Pope Leo, His Holiness, said on Sunday, which in the modern liturgies is when the church goes through the motions of celebrating Corpus Christi. | ||
| And Pope Leo made that the occasion to intervene on international politics, specifically the war between Israel, Iran, and the American bombing. | ||
| Leo, Frank, why don't you talk us through what Leo was saying and whether you noticed yourself any gaps, perhaps, any things he neglected to consider or to mention or to refer to in his discourse? | ||
| Well, I suppose he could have referred to the dangers of nuclear proliferation. | ||
| That might be something. | ||
| But what strikes me, and I think this is the umpteenth time that he's pushed this, what I would call pacifism. | ||
| Peace, peace, peace, they're constantly saying all the time. | ||
| As if complete peace all the time is Christianity and nobody should ever fight against injustice. | ||
| Knights would never have been able to save us. | ||
| Knights used to be, you had a guest here a couple of weeks ago, Raymond Ibrahim, talked about fighting in wars that can be good. | ||
| It can be a sign of love. | ||
| In fact, the opposite is really vice, is cowardice. | ||
| I didn't hear any of that in what he says. | ||
| And I think that the whole point of this piece really is to leverage on the side of the people who are the offenders against the victims. | ||
| And of course, the anti-Trump politician, this is a great opportunity politic against Trump in the name of Christ. | ||
| Frank, I tell you what I didn't notice in this discourse was that it was not only no reference to God, but no reference to Jesus Christ either. | ||
| None that I saw in his discourse. | ||
| And it's a bit strange, I think strange, though, of course, I'm used to this, to see our Catholic prelates talking about peace without invoking the Prince of Peace himself. | ||
| You know, you said a couple of things here. | ||
| It was the Old Testament false prophets, right, who went about crying peace, peace, where there is no peace. | ||
| But you know, you make a good point here, and that is, I'm not sure, taking both the New and the Old Testament taken together, I'm not sure that the Catholic Church should have an instinctive preference, at least if it's going to intervene on these things, for peace in the absolute, in the abstract, unless it's also founded on justice. | ||
| I think, you know, that's what Raymond Ibrahim was also sort of mentioning a few weeks ago. | ||
| That is to say, I think the Catholic Church should, you know, if we're talking about papal interventions in issues which are complex and detailed, I think the Catholic Church should reach beyond just banal platitudes if it wants to be taken seriously, right? | ||
| And of course, Jesus Christ said, you know, I've not come to bring peace but a sword as well, which is also a factor. | ||
| That is to say, it is not the Catholic Church's primary purpose on the international stage when making political interventions just to promote peace in the abstract, not remotely. | ||
| So the role of the Catholic Church is to promote the gospel and the kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. | ||
| First, of course, if you do that, if you do that, and if everybody of the six billion people on the face of the planet inculcated in their hearts a love towards Jesus Christ, then perhaps an authentic peace might emerge out of it. | ||
| One would reasonably hope so. | ||
| But until that is the case, you know, the Catholic Church are talking about peace without the proper foundations. | ||
| It's going to be like, is this from the Psalms? | ||
| It's like the pelican on the rooftop squawking away all by itself, you know. | ||
| Anyway, just give me your response to what I just said, if you wouldn't mind on that. | ||
| And then I'll read a quote from this thing and then we'll cut over to Jenny. | ||
| What he's doing is he's scolding people who are actually being virtuous. | ||
| And they're fighting to fight as a soldier on the battlefield and offer your life for your country is a very, very high virtuous thing. | ||
| And from the Pope himself, and not just him, but the political leaders who try to fight on behalf of what's right, on behalf of what's just, for him to say these things all the time, this pacifism, which is a heresy, is scolding people for actually being virtuous and undermining virtue. | ||
| And when you undermine virtue from Rome itself, you're creating a planet of people who are cowards. | ||
| There was nobody hurt in this attack on Iran. | ||
| And it was very limited, and they were evacuated at first. | ||
| But he's talking about mothers and children as if Trump, generally, hinting that perhaps Trump has hurt children. | ||
| In a way, that's kind of a blood libel, actually, under the circumstances. | ||
| What he did here may somehow be leading to peace through strength, like they say. | ||
| These things are all possible under just war teaching in the church. | ||
| Look, as people who follow me on Geta will know, I've been incredibly right from the first moment against both the Israeli bombarding of Iran, but also the US bombarding of Iran. | ||
| I'm very against that. | ||
| But we can go, but for political reasons, so we can just discuss those at another time. | ||
| What I was, you know, so I said that because I don't want anyone to, you know, I don't want anyone to think there's a contradiction to what I'm saying. | ||
| I was against those bombings. | ||
| But from a religious perspective, specifically a Christian perspective, and again, this thought comes to me as I hear you're speaking, Frank, that about, you say, about pacifism being a heresy. | ||
| Look, is there a parallel here between the Orthodox Jews in Israel who refuse to be called up to fight and refuse to some extent to recognise the foundation of the secular state of Israel because they say it wasn't founded by the promised Messiah, which from a Jewish perspective is coherent. | ||
| Coherent. | ||
| I didn't say it was correct. | ||
| It's coherent. | ||
| Is there a parallel, do you think, between the Orthodox position there in refusing to recognize the legitimacy of the secular modern state and Catholics saying that the Pope shouldn't be promoting peace unless it is a peace founded on Jesus Christ? | ||
| Because both of these things are predicated on God and his promises, right? | ||
| Just war teaching is, I think, critical to power. | ||
| So if you're going to support a valid government, whether it's the, you know, you don't like the secular state, so you're not going to support that, you don't consider that just. | ||
| If Catholics constantly teach peace as if it were Catholic teaching, there wouldn't be, if they did that all the time, there wouldn't be a church in Europe. | ||
| There would be no cathedrals anywhere. | ||
| They're just handing power over to the enemy. | ||
| So depending on whether or not it's key, whether or not their cause is just, fighting battles is important. | ||
| It's a great virtue. | ||
| And, you know, I think that I don't, you know, the ins and outs of what's going on in the Middle East are very complicated right now. | ||
| And especially when you get to Trump, you know, I don't know whether the war is just, but if you constantly are teaching that it's never, ever just, that nothing good, you know, war always is bad. | ||
| It's never good. | ||
| He even quotes Pius XII, I think, you know, outside of context, saying that, you know, war is always bad. | ||
| It never accomplishes anything. | ||
| You know, you're just capitulating is what you're doing. | ||
| Let me be precise about this, because I wasn't against the bombing because I'd invoked my own interpretation of just war theory. | ||
| I was against the bombing because I didn't see how it fitted within, how can I say it, a strict definition of the America first philosophy. | ||
| That was the reason particularly I was against it. | ||
| I'm sure theologians could make a valid argument for invoking just war theory on that. | ||
| I'm sure others will also say not, because of course it depends on the fundamental reality of whether the Iranians, whether the Ayatollah himself had actually green lit a resumption of the nuclear weapons making programme. | ||
| Because if he hadn't done, then a preventative strike then becomes far more difficult to sustain. | ||
| But it was more against the America first aspect. | ||
| But thanks for that, Frank. | ||
| And we'll come back to that, I'm sure, in future episodes. | ||
| Let's go now to the UK, this story here, this development about the assisted dying bill in the UK, Jenny. | ||
| Firstly, can you tell us a bit about that? | ||
| But also tell us, because here, in the particular reference to this that we have here, there was a Labour MP who is associated with something called Blue Labour. | ||
| And this is something I think Steve has had on the show also in the past. | ||
| Just tell us a bit, if you wouldn't mind, the Blue Labour thing is again remind us. | ||
| And then say about the assisted dying bill. | ||
| And then say whether you're surprised that a Labour MP actually ended up voting against it and what that might mean. | ||
| So yes, of course. | ||
| So Blue Labour is a blue-collar wing group within the Labour Party. | ||
| And as you know, and your audience probably knows, the UK Labour Party is very, almost entirely quite far-left and progressive and has all but abandoned the British working class in a multitude of ways. | ||
| So I was surprised that a Labour MP voted in that way, only in that I was surprised that there are still vestiges of the old traditional working class, conservative social values ethos within the Labour Party. | ||
| I was relieved to see that it hasn't completely gone extinct. | ||
| Now, you know, the vote is not, it's not set in stone yet. | ||
| It now has to go to the House of Lords. | ||
| And there is still, I suppose, a chance of stopping it. | ||
| But it seems to have very strong momentum in spite of very loud, very vocal concerns raised against it from sort of across the spectrum. | ||
| I mean, here in Northern Ireland, all but one of our MPs voted against it, including the more traditional, sort of staunch religious Protestant parties, the smaller ones and the larger ones, but also even the MP for Alliance, which is a very progressive party. | ||
| So I think people are voting on this along more personal lines than party lines. | ||
| However, it's a very dark bill, and it's likely to become law. | ||
| When you were speaking a moment ago about Leo, Pope Leo and his banal platitudes, I think you called them about peace, it brought to mind what the Church of England's reaction to the assisted dying bill was, and that was to give out an incredibly bureaucratic and anodyne statement calling the bill unsafe, which, I mean, I honestly have to laugh. | ||
| I mean, it's almost like a Monty Python skit that, you know, the Church of England, which is supposed to be the moral center of the United Kingdom and this historic institution, called a bill that would allow the government to off its own citizens unsafe. | ||
| I mean, it almost seems like that's kind of the point. | ||
| And I don't mean to be irreverent. | ||
| I don't mean to be glib, but it's almost like dark humor at this point. | ||
| You know, a point, an observation to that, which I could have made when we were talking about Pope Leo's intervention on the war. | ||
| It is as if both the Church of England and the Catholic Church these days, and not just these days for decades, they will do absolutely anything to avoid talking about Jesus Christ in the public sphere. | ||
| It doesn't matter what somersaults they have to do, what contortions they have to do, if they can come out with a pseudo-innocuous banal platitude, that was the expression, right? | ||
| A banal platitude. | ||
| If they can come out with just some meaningless word salad, right? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| To avoid having to actually refer to Jesus Christ, they will do that. | ||
| And that's been the case for decades. | ||
| And it is almost the case that the better able you are to just produce these meaningless sort of press releases, the more likely you are to see advancement within your respective ecclesial communion. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| By the way, I think for the last 30 years in the UK, Islam has been the world's has been the UK's fastest growing religion. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Oh, you know, we're going to come on to this because you have another story from a couple of weeks ago, but we'll come on to that in the second half because I think that ties into this. | ||
| But Islam, just to give it its due, when it comes to banal platitudes, it sort of reacts to banar platitudes in the religious sphere, like Superman to kryptonite. | ||
| They don't go anywhere near it. | ||
| You know, if you look at what the Muslims are saying, it's normally coherent, very clear, and take it or leave it. | ||
| And people respond to that. | ||
| In the religious sphere, in the political sphere as well, but especially the religious sphere, people respond to that because they don't want to be participating in a make it up as you go along religion. | ||
| Yes, absolutely. | ||
| I mean, it seems to me at this point, and I don't mean to sound like a rabble-rouser, but it seems to me that the elites, both in government and in the churches, are almost unsalvageable. | ||
| They have yet to provide any clear moral authority. | ||
| They're constantly speaking out of both sides of their mouth. | ||
| And as you say, they're not delivering what all of the numbers are showing people actually want, which is, as you say, coherence, a sort of a spine, moral fortitude, and a sense of meaning, even if it requires sacrifice. | ||
| When you listen to leaders across the spectrum, you get the sense that they would do anything to stay in power and will sacrifice nothing for a belief, which is the exact opposite of what regular people are now picking up on as something that they need in their lives. | ||
| And this is shown over and over again. | ||
| And when it comes to like the Labour Party and the Kirstahmer version of the Labour Party, like the Tony Blair change of the Labour Party, you know, you have to give them their due too, because progressives are going to progressive. | ||
| That is what they are. | ||
| That is what they're going to do. | ||
| And you expect that from them. | ||
| But to see something like the Church of England issue almost like an HR department's memorandum about how, oh dear, well, maybe this isn't safe when we're talking about killing off elderly and sick patients on an already very overtaxed NHS. | ||
| I mean, that to me deserves far more ire than the Labour Party leaders that are trying to push this through. | ||
| Look, before we move on from this, I saw something in the UK press last week, and though I didn't flag it up to you, I wonder whether you noticed it yourself, that at the very time they're discussing this assisted dying bill, they're also discussing the cuts to disability benefits, because of course the money simply isn't there. | ||
| And the money is definitely not going to be there if the UK is even going to attempt to meet its new 5% defence spending commitments. | ||
| It's not going to attempt that. | ||
| Not remotely, whatever NATO Said earlier on today in the Netherlands, there's no NATO country that is going to go anywhere near 5%. | ||
| Look, just to open brackets, Russia's in the middle of a war, and I think its defence spending is 6.3%. | ||
| There is no way that lazy Europeans addicted to welfare are going to tolerate a 5% expenditure on defence when there is clearly and manifestly no imminent threat. | ||
| Not going to happen. | ||
| So I'll be looking at that, putting my international editor hat on to see how having affirmed that they're going to meet 5%. | ||
| I want to see how they're going to wriggle at it. | ||
| But the point is this, the money is not going to be there. | ||
| And do you have your cynical BDIs on this as I do, Jenny? | ||
| Do you see a link here between the cuts to disability spending on the one hand and the gentle sort of shuffling off the stage of people in the end-of-life condition? | ||
| Because of course, I think in the UK, where we have the National Health Service, I think the statistics are that like 90% of a person's health budget are used up in the last six months of life. | ||
| That is a 90% of the total NHS expenditure on a person on average is used up in that end-of-life situation. | ||
| So if you can get people to willingly embrace their own demise earlier, that's going to be huge, huge, huge savings across the board for the NHS. | ||
| So just quickly, before we move on, do you see any connection between these two phenomena? | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| And, you know, my mind can't go to the sort of the darkest place that you might follow that down to. | ||
| But that is what MP Dan Corden, who is this Labour Party MP that we mentioned at the beginning, that was the concern he raised. | ||
| He said, I am from a working class area where people are very aware of the terrible state of the existing health service and the difficulties with palliative care and the gaps in the resources to help people who I would say many of them have been taxpayers their whole lives and help families through those very tough last few years and months. | ||
| And that is why he said I cannot justify voting yes to support assisted dying because it's just too close for comfort. | ||
| The inability of the state to take care of the existing sick people. | ||
| It's just too close for comfort then to add in assisted dying as if that's not going to become a preferred option from a very overtaxed and inefficient NHS. | ||
| Thanks, Jenny. | ||
| Just hold on there. | ||
| We'll come back to you in a few minutes. | ||
| Frank, we've got a break coming up, but can you just give me the readout of this poll that came out a couple of days ago? | ||
| Because obviously the Catholic Inc. | ||
| press has jumped all over this saying how beloved Pope Leo is and how well he's been received. | ||
| But I noticed on your website, Canon 212, you've really sort of dug down a little bit into the statistics and all is not as it appears. | ||
| Oh, this is a Catholic magazine here, but no matter where you are, you never ever get a poll of actual practicing Catholics. | ||
| You almost, maybe once in a while, you get it, but very rarely. | ||
| And so what they hear are doing, they're asking people, a group of people whom maybe 10% of them actually go to Mass and say more than a prayer a day or something like that. | ||
| And they're using this as an example to say that people are very favorable about him. | ||
| And then they have 65% of them are somewhat favorable. | ||
| So that means I think that's kind of a tepid favorability. | ||
| And especially when it comes to Catholics, 35% of them, they must not like Leo at all. | ||
| That's a lot of people not to like Leo. | ||
| And if they don't like Leo, why? | ||
| I mean, they hardly even know him. | ||
| They don't know anything about him. | ||
| He hasn't said much that they would now. | ||
| You'd think that they at least gave him a chance. | ||
| Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. | ||
| Hold on. | ||
| Don't bear with the lead. | ||
| 6% of American Catholics, that's like more than one in 20, right? | ||
| One in 20, this is more than one in 20, said they have a very somewhat unfavorable opinion of him. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Are these our guys? | ||
| Are these our guys? | ||
| Well, that's my question. | ||
| What are they? | ||
| Are they faithful Catholics or are they more on the left side? | ||
| Because the poll shows that Republicans like Leo, I mean, Democrats like Leo better than Republicans. | ||
| And even among the Republicans, you know, you see, I think that this wing, this 10% here that definitely, not just somewhat, but definitely doesn't like Leo. | ||
| I think that's where you find the Catholics. | ||
| I think most of the Catholics. | ||
| And as far as Republican goes, that's where you find what they would call the conservative or the MAGA Catholics. | ||
| I think that's what this poll says, that MAGA Catholics and conservatives don't like Leo any more than they did Francis. | ||
| And this is when they don't know him yet. | ||
| There's a big chunk of people in this poll that don't know. | ||
| They say, I don't know. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I'm giving them a chance. | ||
| But I would expect that over the coming months and years that this favorability is going to deteriorate as the scam news kind of filters through and the reality gets there. | ||
| And they see his politicking. | ||
| They mention his politicking, his lady church, his bishop appointments. | ||
| Faithful Catholics are noticing this stuff. | ||
| They're getting past, there's a huge new wave of media campaigning. | ||
| I mean, when he goes out there, they have people kissing his ring. | ||
| Thousands of seminarians are bursting out in Latin hymns. | ||
| Where do they know this? | ||
| Francis Church taught seminarians, Latin hymns. | ||
| They have everything carefully programmed to make him look Catholic here. | ||
| But I don't think that MAGA Catholics are buying it. | ||
| 60 seconds. | ||
| No, I certainly don't think MAGA Catholics are buying it. | ||
| 60 seconds, right? | ||
| You're the number one Catholic news aggregator. | ||
| No one follows these things or has a better feel of these things than you. | ||
| Tell me, on the basis of what you were saying, what's your timeframe for MAGA Catholics to or for the unknowns to start forming an opinion that will lean potentially in our direction? | ||
| Well, I noticed that, you know, it's a small thing, but Eric Salmons, just in a tweet, Eric Salmons is the head of Crisis Magazine, and there's some other papers. | ||
| And that's sort of an establishment faithful Catholic source. | ||
| And he mentioned the fact that... | ||
| He's not really a conservative. | ||
| The fact that he mentions that that is even an issue out there is a sign to us that it's starting to turn, that they're having to recognize that their propaganda is kind of falling flat and slipping through the cracks. | ||
| You can see it turning now. | ||
| Whether this is a veneer or a laminate, we'll discover after the break. | ||
|
unidentified
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Here's your host, Stephen K. Vann. | |
| Welcome back. | ||
| Now, Jenny Holland, I know that you're doing a podcast of your own on this next story, and I'll give out the references of where people can go at the end of the show on that, because I know you have a great deal of insights in this story. | ||
| Tell me about this article from a short while ago by the Catholic News Agency, which listed that Catholics now outnumber Anglicans among Gen Z in the UK and break that down for us. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So according to this story, with polls done by the Bible Society, which is a charity, and YouGov, did surveys of Catholics and Anglicans in the UK and found that in that Gen Z cohort, the Catholics outnumber the Anglicans two to one. | ||
| And this really tracks with everything that I'm observing, both in my own experience and also online. | ||
| And I mean, what we were talking about before about the Church of England saying that the assisted dyeing bill was unsafe and also the decriminalization of late-term abortion was worrying. | ||
| I mean, if not even the Church of England is going to stand up for its own principles, why would young people who are really lost and struggling in a multitude of ways, why are they going to reach for the Church of England as a life raft that they need? | ||
| They're not. | ||
| If you stand for nothing, you get nothing. | ||
| So it's not a surprise to me at all that they are turning towards Catholicism. | ||
| And I know from other sources that many of them, if not most of them, I would just guess that in fact, probably all of them are going toward the traditional Latin Mass because young people have borne the brunt of a totally secular society. | ||
| My generation, which is Gen X, we're old enough to have lived off the fumes of the greatest generation and the way children were raised since time immemorial. | ||
| We got the tail end of that. | ||
| So we have a little bit more of a grounding. | ||
| But by the time you get to Gen Z, these kids have been raised without any guardrails and in a totally secular environment. | ||
| I spoke yesterday to a young woman, she's a millennial, but a young woman who detransitioned. | ||
| So she left the gender cult. | ||
| And she said she felt like she was drowning in tar and she had no solid ground to stand on. | ||
| And she was trying to make herself into a little god. | ||
| And that is because that's what secular culture teaches children and young people. | ||
| And what rescued her was returning to the Catholic Church and re-familiarizing herself with God and Jesus and Mary. | ||
| And it's, I mean, it's, it's incredible to hear because these stories are very uplifting. | ||
| And I found the story in the Catholic News Agency to be quite reassuring, especially because, you know, young people are needed to re-energize common sense morality. | ||
| They are really at the coalface. | ||
| They're the ones that are going to have to do it. | ||
| You know, it's no use old codgers like me talking about it. | ||
| They're the ones that are going to have to do it for themselves. | ||
| And hopefully, because they're young and still of childbearing years, they will have children and raise them accordingly. | ||
| And maybe, just maybe, although the odds are still stacked against us all, we can return to, like I said, common sense morality. | ||
| I have an excerpt from this article, from this poll, which I will troll you with, Jenny. | ||
| In addition, it says, over a fifth of men aged 18 to 24, which is 21%, now say they are attending church monthly, which is higher than their female peers at 12%. | ||
| So it's just a few points away from almost being literally double. | ||
| And I hate to say this, folks, but Christianity is a patriarchal religion. | ||
| It is. | ||
| It's not an objective reality because Ben Harnwell said it is. | ||
| That is just the case. | ||
| Christianity is a patriarchal religion. | ||
| It follows on Judaism, which also follows out from it. | ||
| It grows out from Judaism, which is also a patriarchal religion, as is Islam. | ||
| I sort of see here, we've mentioned this, we've touched on this a few times in the past. | ||
| There is definitely a moment going on for guys, for chaps, for men right now, not only in politics, but also in religion. | ||
| And to see young guys here getting churched up, I think in terms of its future implications, what's the Latin? | ||
| Niclesia Domestica, the house church. | ||
| The idea that men will once again, this is after a lapse of centuries, right? | ||
| But the idea that men will Step forward and resume a role of leadership in church matters, in religious matters, in faith matters in the home. | ||
| I think that is going to be, even if the numbers are small, even if we're talking 21%, that is really going to be the yeast that makes the bread rise. | ||
| I'm absolutely convinced of that. | ||
| And you see these statistics, I'll give away to you on this point, right? | ||
| I've seen, I saw it again the other day, this statistic, that if you really want to make sure your kids go to church when they're adults, it has to be the father that takes them to church. | ||
| And this is like both Catholic and Protestant, though the Catholics, I think, have done quite a bit of research on this. | ||
| Has to be the father that takes the kids to church. | ||
| If it's only the mother, especially if we're dealing with sons here, if it's only the mother that takes their sons to church, those kids are almost never likely to continue church going. | ||
| If it's the father that takes them, especially if the father takes them by his kids, his sons, by himself, that is factors higher than those kids, especially boys, will continue active church going. | ||
| That is one of the most underappreciated but essential facts that I could identify to do with church going and church practice. | ||
| I'll repeat that. | ||
| If you are religious parents, Christian parents, and you want your sons, especially sons, to continue church practice as adults when they're living by themselves, has to be the father that takes them to church on Sunday. | ||
| Okay, I know you've got something to say on that. | ||
| Go ahead. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, you're bringing up the thorniest part of this and the most difficult because not only, you're right, it's more among young men. | ||
| And there's been many studies and new stories about how young women in general are becoming more left-wing. | ||
| And that's a real problem for obvious reasons. | ||
| And not only that, even if that stopped and young women, and I mean, I know anecdotally young women who are turning toward the church and specifically the, like you say, accepting of the patriarchal dynamic of Catholicism and Christianity. | ||
| But, you know, I don't know, I genuinely don't know. | ||
| I'm not even making a rhetorical point. | ||
| I don't know how three generations of liberalism can be undone in terms of how women and men interact. | ||
| And I personally, being a very secular person, being a very modern person, I grew up in a liberal secular world. | ||
| I can't quite see how we can return to the old way in that regard. | ||
| And I understand that a true return to God hinges on that point. | ||
| So that has to be worked out. | ||
| And it's going to be worked out individual to individual, young man to young woman, family to family. | ||
| And I can't really opine on how that's going to happen. | ||
| But I actually will say this, which I can opine on, because it's very common to see in social media and even in news stories. | ||
| I think the Washington, sorry, the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times both published stories in this regard. | ||
| Women, successful, liberal, secular career women lamenting the fact that they can't find husbands. | ||
| And I think the, you know, for young people, the dating world is very grim right now. | ||
| And I can see that driving women to at least consider the more traditional options. | ||
| Okay, thanks, Jenny. | ||
| And I know you're going to be diving into these things more in that podcast that you're preparing right now. | ||
| And as I say, we'll give out the pointers for that at the end of the show. | ||
| Let's go back over to Frank now because here's a story. | ||
| Here's a story, Frank, that it's the McDaddy right now, the leading article on Canon 2.12, your own website. | ||
| This is a post that Eric Salmons has put out, who's the editor of Crisis Magazine. | ||
| He's been on the show quite a few times with Steve. | ||
| And he says this. | ||
| Let me just read this out and then you give me your take on this. | ||
| This is what he says in his tweet. | ||
| I think that traditionalists who argue that Pope Leo is worse than Francis because he just puts a traditional veneer on post-conciliar problems don't realize how vital a traditional veneer is to overcoming those post-conciliar problems. | ||
| And you quite cleverly entitled this on your website, that it's not even a veneer, basically. | ||
| It's more of a laminate. | ||
| But tell me first, before you break it down, tell me, just in your own words, what he's saying is, the point that he's trying to make, and then we'll analyze it. | ||
| Well, I think it's kind of a personal defense of his campaign and the people like him in the more powerful Catholic media and what they're trying to accomplish. | ||
| You know, a veneer is a wood thing. | ||
| Laminated is more of a plastic. | ||
| And it shows who is actually paying the bills in the Catholic press, because those people are not necessarily the friends of Catholicism. | ||
| Just like Jenny was saying, the elites and running the church, they don't really have the Catholic faith. | ||
| They think, those elites, they think of our faith, their faithful Catholics, as being something very shallow. | ||
| We like this smells and bells, they always like to say. | ||
| We're going to be happy with just the Mass in and of itself. | ||
| But, you know, it's not, those things are meaningful to God, what happens in Mass. | ||
| But they're spiritual things. | ||
| There's not a lot of physicalness to it. | ||
| They think they can push the things that they see when they look at the Catholic Mass and they see this Leo's Corpus Christi event that he held this weekend. | ||
| They went back perusing through old pictures of Catholic popes in the past so they could make it look really, really, really Catholic. | ||
| Well, he goes up there and he keeps spouting his same liberalism and really anti-Catholic things, I think that's what he's like, I think that that's what's represented in the head of Crisis Mag's post here. | ||
| They think that we're that shallow that we're going to buy this, that the veneer is really important. | ||
| Yeah, that's what they think. | ||
| That is exactly what they think. | ||
| This goes back to something that, you know, I try to get this into every show that we do, right? | ||
| But this expression because I like it so much, because it captures exactly where I'm coming from. | ||
| But when I hear the words red mozzeta, I reach for my gun, which is a play on something that was Field Marshal Bly me, the name's fled from my going, Field Marshal going. | ||
| When I hear the words attributed to him, when I hear the word culture, I reach for my gun. | ||
| When I hear the words red mozzetta, I reach for my gun, because I know exactly the pitch that they're going to do, which is basically just allow yourself to be persuaded and deceived and led along because of a piece of vestment, and all will be well. | ||
| You know what we used to call this in the UK, Frank? | ||
| Salvation through haberdashery. | ||
| This is where these people are, right? | ||
| Because the Catholics have salvation by works. | ||
| The Protestants have salvation by faith. | ||
| And these guys here have salvation by haberdashery. | ||
| All the only important thing is what you wear, and then all will be well. | ||
| And I was astonished because Priscilla's magazine is a huge magazine in the Catholic world. | ||
| It is certainly on the right on the Conservative side, not the traditionalist side, on the Conservative side of the Church. | ||
| It has a big footprint. | ||
| I was surprised to see their editor come out and say this, really? | ||
| I mean, Frank, I had no doubt this is actually what they were believing out there, but I was surprised to see them come out and just say it straight up. | ||
| What's the solution? | ||
| Just give me a minute. | ||
| What's the solution to this? | ||
| What are good Catholics, how are they to respond? | ||
| And if you can, if you feel yourself open to it, what can good conservative evangelicals be who follow this show? | ||
| What can they be alive and alert to? | ||
| Because it's the same phenomenon taking place, I think, to change a few of the variables, but it's the same sort of dynamic that is taking place also in the Protestant sphere. | ||
| To be satisfied, be bought off with the superficials, but let the underlying substance be radically changed. | ||
| So just give me a minute on what your solution would be to this in both Catholic and Protestant camps, if you wouldn't mind. | ||
| As you can see, there's in the poll, I don't think there's a whole bunch of people that are not being represented in this fake press. | ||
| And it's the same problem, like you mentioned last week with the Baptists. | ||
| And I remember Liz, you were saying leadership is what's needed. | ||
| And our community needs leadership. | ||
| And like Jenny is saying with the males, the men in the church, and how are we going to solve the problem of years of decades of feminism, prayer and the more masculine mass, which is the more faithful masses that you can attend, those things can help a lot too. | ||
| But I'm glad to see that the story is starting to get out. | ||
| And whatever happens in the Catholic Church, our Protestant brothers, they look to the Catholic Church. | ||
| In the past, they could look to us to stand up for things. | ||
| Now they look to us with sadness. | ||
| Oh, it's going the same way as everything else. | ||
| But I think that together, we share actual, we take action. | ||
| The faithful Protestants and the faithful Catholics have a political force. | ||
| And if we have leadership, we can accomplish things together. | ||
| So I think they should learn that. | ||
| We need to come out from under this big blanket that they're throwing over our heads in the Catholic media and the hierarchy. | ||
| The hierarchy and the regular mass is so effeminate. | ||
| It's repulsive to people, to men, and people that actually want to take action and solve things. | ||
| It's like you mentioned the Nazis. | ||
| It's like we live in this Nazi planet and we have no way to get out from under it, but we're still there. | ||
| We need to remember that we're still there. | ||
| We're out there. | ||
| We're still there. | ||
| We're still fighting. | ||
| Look, 90 seconds. | ||
| Frank, stand by. | ||
| We'll just come back to you. | ||
| We're moving up to the end of the show now. | ||
| Jenny, look, can you just give me 90 seconds on this story from Matlock in the UK to do with the Pride flag? | ||
| Because I think this is just an indication of what Christians can achieve in the public square. | ||
| Just 90 seconds and we'll end on this positive note. | ||
| Well, a small town in Northern England had a pride flag hanging alongside its UK flag and its county flag. | ||
| And the owner or someone in the Christian bookshop outside where the flag was hanging complained to the council and the council took down the flag. | ||
| That's the short story. | ||
| Now, I would be very curious to see what kind of blowback is going to befall this little Christian bookshop for the crime, the heretical crime of complaining about the flag, the pride flag, which is akin to the new religion in the United Kingdom. | ||
| So we'll see how that plays out for them. | ||
| But good news, it's the mouse that roared, right? | ||
| It's David versus Goliath thus far. | ||
| Yes, as the young people say, there is a vibe shift. | ||
| There is certainly a vibe shift. | ||
| Okay, look, we mentioned earlier your podcast and the substack analysis. | ||
| Just give us a quick account of where people can go to keep up with your analysis on These things. | ||
| I'll say just again, Jenny, the reason I love having you on this show as someone who is not formally religious, who's formally atheist, you do pray the rosary every day and you're very proud and open at talking about the spiritual fruits you get from that. | ||
| So, where do people go to keep you with your analysis on these developments? | ||
| The best place is jennyeholland.substack and also on the notes app, which is the substack social media network platform. | ||
| That's the best place to find me, jennyeholland.substack. | ||
| And for the podcast? | ||
| It will be there as well, and it should be up on Apple as well. | ||
| Great. | ||
| Okay, Jenny, thanks so much. | ||
| And God willing, we'll catch up with you again at 6 p.m. | ||
| next Wednesday. | ||
| Frank Walker, you are the Catholic Matt Drudge. | ||
| I very much strongly encourage people to check out your Canon 212 website. | ||
| Look, next week, you might just give a few words and say what Canon 212 actually is, what the code of canon law is, to put some context behind this. | ||
| Where do people go to catch up with that? | ||
| And can I ask you now, will you put the links that we hit today, the articles we hit today on the show, would you mind, would you be so kind to put them up on your website so that people can go to that to read more and be better informed? | ||
| And where do they go for your social media? | ||
| Stumbling Block and all the rest of it? | ||
| Canon 212, C-A-N-O-N212, bookmarket on X. It's Canon 212 written all the way across. | ||
| And you can find the daily update video on Rumble and Aglaria TV. | ||
| And at Canon 212. | ||
| Great. | ||
|
unidentified
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And the Stumbling Block? | |
| There's a site here. | ||
| It's also linked. | ||
| There's a couple places where you can see the daily update video. | ||
| It's about 10 minutes, 10 or 15 minutes. | ||
| It just goes through the news articles of that day. | ||
| Perfect. | ||
| Take a look. | ||
|
unidentified
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Perfect. | |
| I'd say you need to tap out, folks, the canon2112.com in full because the site is currently being suppressed by Google. | ||
| Thanks for joining us today. | ||
| We're back at 6pm next Wednesday. | ||
| My thanks to the great team in Denver and to producer Cameron Wallace. |
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