July 26, 2023 - Bannon's War Room
57:49
Participants
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| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| Information, but it was very brutal and very unfortunate. | ||
| Some of the tactics they used to hurt me both professionally and personally, to be quite frank. | ||
| Yeah, it's very unfortunate. | ||
| As they say, when you're over the target, that's when they do the most by firing at you. | ||
| Do you have any personal knowledge of people have been harmed or injured in efforts to cover up or conceal these extraterrestrial technology? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Personally, have you heard anyone been murdered? | ||
| That you know of, or have heard of, I guess? | ||
| I have to be careful asking that question. | ||
| I directed people with that knowledge to the appropriate authorities. | ||
| Maybe if we could get in a confidential area of SCIF, we could talk about that. | ||
| But unfortunately, we were denied access to the SCIF. | ||
| And that's very unfortunate in this scenario. | ||
| Mr. Faber. | ||
| Do you believe that you witnessed an additional object under the water in relation to your encounter? | ||
| I will say we did not see an object. | ||
| There was something there to cause the whitewater, and when we turned around, it was gone, so there was something there that obviously moved. | ||
| Okay, it was not the same object, though, that you were looking at, correct? | ||
| No, we actually joked that the Tic Tac was communicating with something when we came back, because the whitewater disappeared. | ||
| In another instance, we're told about the capabilities of a jamming during viewing of some, when there were some people chasing some of these objects. | ||
| Did you experience any of that jamming or interrupting your radar or weapons system? | ||
| My crew that launched after we landed experienced significant jamming to the APG-73 radar, which was what we had on board, which is a mechanically scanned, very high-end system prior to the APG-79. | ||
| And yes, it did pretty much everything you could do. | ||
| Range, velocity, aspect, and then it spit the lock, and the targeting pod is passive. | ||
| That's what we were able to get the video on. | ||
| I'm about to run out of time, but are you aware of any of our enemies that have that capability? | ||
|
unidentified
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No. | |
| Okay, I would also like to note for the record that Like George Knapp, breaking Area 51. | ||
| He's the reason I knew about that. | ||
| And the reason I know about the tic-tacs is Leslie Kean from the New York Times article, and I would encourage everybody to read that. | ||
| Thank you, Mr. Chairman. | ||
| I yield back to you for no time. | ||
|
unidentified
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Thank you, Mr. Chairman. | |
| Mr. Graves, you reported UAP encounters during training flights, I think, and have since come forward to warn the Pentagon that these encounters may be putting pilots at risk. | ||
| My first question is, you've identified these as taking place on the East Coast. | ||
| Is it just on the East Coast where these encounters have been reported? | ||
| No. | ||
| Since the events initially occurred, I've learned that the objects have been detected essentially where all operations, Navy operations, are being conducted across the world. | ||
| And that's from the All Domain Anomaly Resolutions Office reporting. | ||
|
unidentified
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Can you describe your experience after you decided to come forward and go public with your experience? | |
| Certainly. | ||
| Like many others, in 2017 I saw the New York Times article come out as well. | ||
| And for me it was special because I recognized the voices on the video. | ||
| I recognized the video itself. | ||
| I had seen it when it was taken. | ||
| I had seen it when it was debriefed. | ||
| And so that was kind of shook me because I realized that this problem was still ongoing. | ||
| And so I reached out to colleagues back on the East Coast and realized that this was still a safety risk that they were dealing with, that they had essentially hit a wall with how they could move forward on this conversation. | ||
| It was at that point when I decided to try to move the conversation forward myself. | ||
|
unidentified
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Are there common characteristics to the UAPs that have been cited by different pilots, and can you describe what the convergence of descriptions is? | |
| Certainly. | ||
| We were primarily seeing dark grey or black cubes inside of a clear sphere. | ||
|
unidentified
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I'm sorry, dark grey or black cubes? | |
| Yes, inside of a clear sphere, where the apex or tips of the cube were touching the inside of that sphere. | ||
| And that was primarily what was being reported when we were able to gain a visual tally of these objects. | ||
| And that occurred over almost eight years. | ||
| And as far as I know, it's still occurring. | ||
|
unidentified
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So I take it that you're arguing what we need is real transparency in a reporting system so we can get some clarity on what's going on out there, because there are many pilots in your situation, but we should have a way of developing a systematic inventory of all of such encounters. | |
| Is that right? | ||
| Yes, and I think we need both transparency and the reporting. | ||
| We have the reporting, but we need to make sure that information can be promulgated to commercial aviation as well as the rest of the populace. | ||
|
unidentified
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Mr. Grush, what about you? | |
| What was your experience after you came forward? | ||
| Well, it's only been about two months or so, so I guess my experience has been overwhelming support from former colleagues of mine that have privately messaged me, and I do appreciate that, but I do have knowledge of active planned reprisal activity against myself and other colleagues, and it's very upsetting to me. | ||
|
unidentified
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Coming from where? | |
| certain senior leadership at previous agencies I was associated with. | ||
| And that's all I'll say publicly, but I can provide more details in a closed environment. | ||
|
unidentified
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Okay. | |
| Well, I hope you understand that there would be bipartisan rejection of any attempt to vilify, demonize, or engage in other reprisals against our witnesses and people who are telling the truth from their perspective. | ||
| Yeah, there were certain colleagues of mine that were brutally administratively attacked. | ||
| And it actually makes me very upset as a leader to see that happen to other co-workers and actually superiors of mine over the last three years. | ||
|
unidentified
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How do you account for that response? | |
| That seems like a bizarre response. | ||
| I call it administrative terrorism. | ||
| That's their quiver, their tool in the toolbox, to silence people. | ||
| Especially, you know, the career government service cares about their career, cares about their clearance, their reputation, to climb the ladder. | ||
| And when you threaten that career path, a lot of people back off. | ||
| But I'm here to represent those people. | ||
|
unidentified
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Mr. Fravor, what about you? | |
| What has your experience been since you've come forward with your perspective on this? | ||
| Actually, I've been treated very well. | ||
| And the six people that were involved, myself included, all of them have or will be retiring from the military as O5s or O6s. | ||
| And all my friends that are very senior, three and four stars, I've talked to them. | ||
| They believe, they understand there's a problem. | ||
| But no, I was actually treated really well. | ||
|
unidentified
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And what is your general interpretation of these phenomena? | |
| Or what is your current thinking of trying to make sense of them? | ||
| Well, I'll say, you know, I'm not like a UFO fanatic. | ||
| It's not, it's not me, but I will tell you that what we saw with four sets of eyes over a five minute period, still, there's nothing, we have nothing close to it. | ||
| It was, it was amazing to see. | ||
| I told my buddy I wanted to fly it, but yeah, it's just an incredible technology. | ||
|
unidentified
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All right. | |
| Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. | ||
| I yield back to you. | ||
| Thanks. | ||
| On to Ms. | ||
| Luna. | ||
| Mr. Grush, in speaking to you yesterday, I just wanted to follow up on Representative Raskin's questions. | ||
| In the last couple of years, have you had incidences that have caused you to be in fear for your life for addressing these issues? | ||
| Yes, personally. | ||
| I just want everyone to note that he's coming forward in fear of his life to put in perspective if they were really not scared about this information coming out, why would someone be intimidated like that? | ||
| To your knowledge, are NHIs working with adversarial foreign governments in either technology exchange programs or back engineering programs? | ||
| I don't have data on that. | ||
| I'm not sure. | ||
| Have you heard or you had people come forward to present that evidence? | ||
| Not that particular evidence that you just espoused. | ||
| Okay, on the 19th of April, Dr. Kirkpatrick, head of Aero, had said that he did not find any evidence of UAPs. | ||
| You also stated that you had, in your interview, that you had briefed him on information that you were uncovering, but that he did not follow up with you. | ||
| Were the items that you divulged to him pertinent to national security? | ||
| Yes, him and I had a classified conversation in April 2022 before he took over Aero in July 2022, and I provided him some concerns I had. | ||
| Do you know why he might not have followed up with you? | ||
| Unfortunately, I cannot read his mind. | ||
| I wish he did. | ||
| I was happy to give sage counsel to him on where to look when he took the helm of Aero. | ||
| Okay, and then my last question for you before I move to Mr. Graves is you received prior approval from the Defense Department to speak on certain issues, correct? | ||
| Correct, through DOPSER, DoD Pre-Publication and Security Review, and I just want to remind the public they're just looking from a security perspective. | ||
| These are my own personal views and opinions, not the Department's. | ||
| I'm asking that though mainly because I think that there are many people that would like to discredit you. | ||
| So it does bring a certain amount of credibility to your testimony. | ||
| I'm required by law to do that as a former intelligence officer or I go to jail for revealing classified information. | ||
| Yeah, we don't want you to go to jail. | ||
| My next question would actually be for Mr. Graves. | ||
| Can you please explain to me in detail the event that occurred at Vandenberg Air Force Base? | ||
| Certainly. | ||
| In the 2003 time frame, a large group of Boeing contractors were operating near one of the launch facilities at Vandenberg Air Force Base when they observed a very large, 100-yard-sided red square approach the base from the ocean and hover at low altitude over one of the launch facilities. | ||
| This object remained for about 45 seconds or so before darting off over the mountains. | ||
| There was a similar event within 24 hours later in the evening. | ||
| This was a morning event. | ||
| I believe 8.45 in the morning. | ||
| Later in the evening, post-sunset, there were reports of other sightings on base, including some aggressive behaviors. | ||
| These objects were approaching some of the security guards at rapid speeds before darting off. | ||
| And this is information that was received through one of the witnesses that have approached me at Americans for Safe Aerospace. | ||
| Was this documented in any official form, whether it was a police blotter? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| They had official documentation and records from the event that the witness held over the years. | ||
| And I'm not going to ask you to do it right now for time reasons, but you'd be able to sketch what was witnessed, correct? | ||
| And have you seen that before on any other equipment and or during your flight time? | ||
| I have not seen what they've described. | ||
| This object was estimated to be almost the size of a football field, and I have not seen anything personally that large. | ||
| Okay, and then another question on follow-up referencing the gimbal video GoFast incident. | ||
| Can you just clarify because to our understanding the footage was actually cut off at a certain point, but what happens at the end of that video just for those Americans specifically there that are wanting to know about the rest of that footage? | ||
| Certainly. | ||
| There was some instability with the object. | ||
| It seemed to rock a bit. | ||
| And that's the last I had seen of the video. | ||
| Much of the data that I would recommend be analyzed would consist of radar data that would provide precise kinematics on the object as well as the fleet of objects that were operating nearby. | ||
| Okay, and follow-up, in regards to the reporting procedures that Mr. Garcia had addressed on, as well as Representative Burchett, with the FAA, to your understanding, pilots that are seeing this, commercial airline pilots, are they receiving cease and desist letters from corporations for coming forward with information in regards to safety for potential airline passengers? | ||
| I have been made privy to conversations with commercial aviators who have received cease and desist orders. | ||
| So the American public should know that corporations are putting their own reputations on the, not the line, but ahead of the safety of the American people. | ||
| And I think, would you agree with that statement? | ||
| It appears so. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| I guess this would be my last... I'm out of time. | ||
| I yield. | ||
| I'll be back. | ||
|
unidentified
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Good. | |
| Mr. Moskowitz. | ||
| Thank you, Mr. Chairman. | ||
| Gentlemen, let's talk about the laws of physics for a second. | ||
| Mr. Graves and Commander Faber, I heard you talk about speed. | ||
| When those objects broke the sound barrier, did they make a sonic boom? | ||
| I was in a jet. | ||
| You can't hear anything. | ||
| It's kind of loud in there. | ||
| Yeah, you're not able to actually personally tell within the vehicle. | ||
| I will say the objects that we were seeing, they were spherical, and they were observed up to Mach 2, which is a very non-aerodynamic shape. | ||
| What about G-forces? | ||
| Let's talk about G-forces of those vehicles. | ||
| Could a human survive those G-forces with known technology today? | ||
| No. | ||
| No, not for the acceleration rates that we observed. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| What about what they look like? | ||
| How close did you get? | ||
| Did you see a seam or a rivet or a section? | ||
| And what I mean is, obviously, the jets you're flying have all those things. | ||
| Did these objects have those? | ||
| I didn't have the detail to be able to tell that. | ||
| So we got within a half mile of the Tic Tac, which people say that's pretty far, but in airplanes, that's actually relatively close. | ||
| No, it was perfectly white, smooth, no windows, although when we did take the original FLIR video that is out there, when you put it on a big screen, it actually had two little objects that came out of the bottom of it. | ||
| But other than that, no windows, no seams, no nothing. | ||
| Mr. Grush, as a result of your previous government work, have you met with people with direct knowledge or have direct knowledge yourself of non-human origin craft? | ||
| Yes, I personally interviewed those individuals. | ||
| Mr. Grush, as a result of your previous government work, have you met with people with direct knowledge or have direct knowledge yourself about ATs, advanced technologies that the U.S. | ||
| government has? | ||
| Based on conventional advanced tech, I was briefed to the preponderance of the Defense Department's both space and aerospace compartmental programs, yeah. | ||
| Do you have knowledge or do you have reason to believe that there are programs in the advanced tech space that are unsanctioned? | ||
| Yes, I do. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And when you say that they're above congressional oversight, what do you mean? | ||
| A complicated question. | ||
| So there's, you know, some, I would call it abuse here. | ||
| So congressional oversight of conventional special access programs, and I'll use Title 10, so DOD as an example, right? | ||
| So 10 U.S. | ||
| Code Section 119 discusses congressional oversight of SAPs, discusses the DEPSEC DEF's ability to waive congressional reporting. | ||
| However, the Gang of Eight is at least supposed to be notified if a, you know, waived or waived bigoted unacknowledged SAP is created, and that's Public law. | ||
| I don't want to cut you off, but how does a program like that get funded? | ||
| I will give you generalities. | ||
| I can get very specific in a closed session, but misappropriation of funds and self-fund. | ||
| Does that mean that there is money in the budget that is said to go to a program but it doesn't and it goes to something else? | ||
| Yes, I have specific knowledge of that. | ||
| Do you think U.S. | ||
| corporations are overcharging for certain tech they're selling to the U.S. | ||
| government and that additional money is going to programs? | ||
| Correct, through something called IRAD. | ||
|
unidentified
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Okay. | |
| Satellite imagery. | ||
| Let's talk about satellite imagery. | ||
| We have satellites all over the place, some that we're aware of and many that we're not aware of, right? | ||
| We're taking pictures of everything at every point and second. | ||
| Mr. Grush, are you aware, do you have direct knowledge, have you talked to people with direct knowledge that there are satellite imagery of these events? | ||
| That was one of my primary tasks at NGA, since we process, exploit, and disseminate that kind of information. | ||
| I've seen multiple cases, some of which, to my understanding, and of course, I left NGA in April, so that's my information cutoff date, but I personally reviewed both what we call overhead collection and from other strategic and tactical platforms that were, I could not even explain prosaically, and I have a degree in physics, by the way, as well, and I had I am aware that you guys have not seen these reports, unfortunately. | ||
| And I don't know why. | ||
| why. | ||
| Do you have direct knowledge or have you spoken to people with direct knowledge that this imagery applies to crash sites, crash imagery? | ||
| I can't discuss that in an open session. | ||
| Do you have any information that the U.S. | ||
| government is involved in a disinformation campaign to deny the existence of certain UAPs? | ||
| I can't go beyond what I've already stated publicly in my News Nation interview because it touches other sensitivities. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| I'll yield the balance of my time back. | ||
|
unidentified
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Thank you, Mr. Chairman. | |
| Fox? | ||
| Thank you, Mr. Chairman. | ||
| I thank our witnesses for being here today. | ||
| Mr. Girouche, in your sworn testimony, you state that the United States government has retrieved supposedly extraterrestrial spacecraft and other UAP-related artifacts. | ||
| You go so far as to state that the U.S. | ||
| is in possession of, quote, Non-human spacecraft, end quote. | ||
| And that some of these artifacts have circulated with defense contractors. | ||
| Several other former military and intelligence officials have come forward with similar allegations, albeit in non-public settings. | ||
| However, Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick, the director of AARO, previously testified before Congress that there has been, and I quote, No credible evidence thus far of extraterrestrial activity or of, quote, off-world technology brought to the attention of the office. | ||
| To your knowledge, is that statement correct? | ||
| It's not accurate. | ||
| I believe Dr. Kirkpatrick mentioned he had about 30 individuals that have come to AERO thus far. | ||
| A few of those individuals have also come to AERO that I also interviewed and I know what they provided Dr. Kirkpatrick and their team. | ||
|
unidentified
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Okay. | |
| I was able to evaluate that information. | ||
|
unidentified
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Okay, I need to go on. | |
| Sure. | ||
|
unidentified
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But my understanding that this His statement is accurate. | |
| It came from a direct quote. | ||
| And this contradiction is a perfect example of why we need to inject transparency into our government. | ||
| And for another example, look no further than the pitiful response to the Chinese spy balloon debacle earlier this year. | ||
| You may remember the mass confusion that ensued when the balloon was first spotted over Montana. | ||
| Four days after it first entered U.S. | ||
| airspace over Alaska, the Biden administration's initial inability to address the object grew into a continuous series of embarrassments. | ||
| After news of the balloon reached the mainstream media, we were assured that the balloon posed no threat to our security. | ||
| However, after the balloon was allowed to transit the entire continental United States, fighter jets were scrambled off the coast of South Carolina to shoot it down. | ||
| This flip-flopping and obfuscation caused needless confusion, fear, and panic across the country. | ||
| It's my hope, Mr. Chairman, that this sort of confusion will not be repeated. | ||
| We should investigate the extent to which elements of our government possess or do not possess information that is of critical value to the American people. | ||
| We owe it to the citizens of this nation to make sure that our government is transparent and accountable. | ||
| We must make sure that our government provides answers and Congress must do its duty to solicit those answers. | ||
| With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. | ||
| Yeah, Mr. Frost. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In 2022, NASA announced that it was commissioning an independent study team to examine UAPs. | ||
| The NASA team is comprised of scientists across different fields, as well as former astronauts and pilots. | ||
| In May, the independent study team held its first public meeting, which included the perspectives from NASA senior leaders, as well as perspectives from the Department of Defense and intelligence agencies. | ||
| The NASA study team is also expected to release its first report pretty soon, and I think it's safe to say that we all eagerly await its results. | ||
| Mr. Graves, how might NASA's research influence the commercial industry regarding safety and UAP? | ||
| I think NASA has a big role to play as far as commercial aviation safety and it's one of their original charges as an organization. | ||
| One of the recommendations that have been put forward is to utilize their existing aviation safety reporting system to serve as a short-term fill and trusted platform for pilots that want to report on UAP. | ||
| It also has built-in analytics capability and is funded by Congress. | ||
|
unidentified
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Gotcha. | |
| And also, Mr. Graves, are there any other industries that may be influenced by the NASA research on the UAPs? | ||
| And if so, how so? | ||
| Well, I think there is a large swath of commercial capabilities that could be brought to bear on this topic from space-based or ground-based sensor systems that are available open source or through commercial marketplaces. | ||
| And I think NASA's work, as they work to identify and highlight specific parameters that can be found, we can take that information and Promulgate this through the public sector so that we can have more open conversation about what we're seeing. | ||
| You know, in 2020, the Department of Defense released several videos of UAPs, including Mr. Freyer's experience, U.S. | ||
| Navy pilots that recorded footage. | ||
| In 2021, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence released a preliminary report on UAP events. | ||
| NASA Administrator Bill Nelson stated that NASA would begin to investigate these events. | ||
| In fact, I sit on Science, Space, and Technology Committee, and when we were doing a hearing with the NASA Administrator Bill Nelson, I asked, you know, why NASA needed to be fully funded, and there were many great reasons, but one of them was actually had to do with UAPs. | ||
| He actually mentioned, you know, is there life out there? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| And so either way, these actions ultimately led NASA to assemble the independent study team that I mentioned earlier. | ||
| Also in 2021, Harvard University stood up the Galileo project to research and examine the origins of UAP. | ||
| So it seems like both, you know, from NASA and in the higher education community, because of the work that y'all have done and people standing up, You know, I think we're seeing some of that stigma slowly going away. | ||
| Mr. Freyer, do you believe that military pilots feeling empowered to share their UAP experiences has directly impacted the scientific community's research goals on this topic? | ||
| I would say yes. | ||
| I would say that, you know, starting in 2017, when it actually came out, it took that stigma away. | ||
| I mean, I've talked to multiple senators who said, prior to that, if you'd have mentioned UAP, you'd have been laughed off the hill. | ||
| And now we're sitting here today for a public testimony on what's actually going on. | ||
| You know, I'm hoping that this curve will be more of an exponential, and we'll get more and more transparent to the level that we can. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| I mean, it's important. | ||
| I couldn't imagine You know, I'm not a pilot, but I used to fly gliders in Civil Air Patrol. | ||
|
unidentified
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Huh? | |
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Pilot? | ||
| You know. | ||
| And so either way, I mean, I couldn't imagine, you know, being in the glider and seeing something and then not feeling like I had the agency to talk about it. | ||
| Mr. Graves, can you discuss the importance of seeking scientists to sit on your advisory board? | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| I think ultimately this is going to be a scientific problem. | ||
| And not only that, it's also an engineering problem. | ||
| I've been working with the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics to help them stand up a UAP integration committee to help integrate their engineering prowess into this problem. | ||
| And so yes, very much, I think this is an engineering and scientific problem as much as a national security problem. | ||
| And how might Congress help to facilitate partnerships between the scientific community and the UAP focus groups within government? | ||
| Well, I think one of the things they can do is to have these types of hearings to communicate to the public that this is a topic of interest. | ||
| I think that there is a pseudo-market, if you will, of interested capabilities and talent that want to approach this topic, and we're seeing that start to grow now. | ||
| So I think continued conversation, reduction of stigma is going to allow that to flourish and allow answers to help generate themselves. | ||
| A hundred percent. | ||
| Well, thank you all for being here. | ||
| Thank you for your work. | ||
| I think it's important that we keep our top scientific minds focused on this issue and look for ways to increase collaboration. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
|
unidentified
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I yield back. | |
| Mr. Comer. | ||
| Thank you, Mr. Chairman. | ||
| Let me say I want to thank you for having this hearing. | ||
| I want to thank Mr. Burchett, Ms. | ||
|
unidentified
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Luna for leading this hearing. | |
| And with that, I yield by five minutes to Mr. Burchett. | ||
| Thank you, Mr. Chairman. | ||
| I'm going to direct this, I believe, to Mr. Grush, but if any of you all feel like you need to jump in, just jump right in. | ||
| We're good. | ||
| government become aware of actual evidence of extraterrestrial, otherwise unexplained forms of intelligence? | ||
| And if so, when do you think this first occurred? | ||
| I like to use the term non-human. | ||
| I don't like to denote origin. | ||
| Keeps the aperture open, both scientifically. | ||
| Certainly, like I've discussed publicly previously, 1930s. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Can you give me the names and titles of the people with direct, first-hand knowledge and access to some of this crash retrieval, some of these crash retrieval programs, and maybe which facilities, military bases, that would, the recovered material would be in? | ||
| And I know a lot of Congress talked about, we're going to go to Area 51 and, you know, and there's nothing there anymore anyway. | ||
| It's just, you know, and we move like a glacier and as soon as we announce it, I'm sure the moving vans would pull up, but please. | ||
| I can't discuss that publicly, but I did provide that information both to the Intel committees and the Inspector General. | ||
| And we could get that in the SCIF if we were allowed to get in a SCIF with you, would that be probably what you would think? | ||
| Sure, if you had the appropriate accesses, yeah. | ||
| What special access programs cover this information and how is it possible that they have evaded oversight for so long? | ||
| I do know the names. | ||
| Once again, I can't discuss that publicly and how they've evaded oversight. | ||
| In a closed setting, I can tell you the specific tradecraft use. | ||
| All right. | ||
| When do you think those programs began and who authorized them? | ||
| I do know a lot of that information, but that's something I can't discuss publicly. | ||
| All right. | ||
| If any of y'all want to jump in on any of this, you're more than welcome to. | ||
| What level of security clearance is required to fully access these programs? | ||
| Well, anybody who has... And I say that because myself, Representative Gates, and Representative Luna were basically turned away at one point at Eglin, so please go right ahead. | ||
| Certainly a difference between member access and say somebody like me, but anybody who has a TSSCI clearance and meets the eligibility criteria, the Access Adjudicative Authority should be able to grant you access. | ||
| Mr. Berger, if you'll yield. | ||
| So, just to put a fine point on that, There's nothing that you're aware of that's above special access program classification? | ||
| It's a misnomer that there's anything actually above top secret. | ||
| Executive Order 13-526 delineates the classification levels. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But I draw a point on that because we can have access to those programs, and so the notion that we're not being given that access sort of defies our typical muscle memory here in Congress. | ||
| Thank you, Mr. Burchett. | ||
| I'll yield back to you. | ||
| Thank you, Mr. Gates. | ||
| Along those lines, Title 10, you may not know this or not, but Title 10 and Title 50 authorization, they seem to say they're inefficient. | ||
| So who gets to decide this, in your opinion, in the past? | ||
| It's a group of career senior executive officials. | ||
| Okay, are they government officials? | ||
| Both in and out. | ||
| Do what? | ||
| Both in and out of government, and that's about as far as I can go there. | ||
| I got you. | ||
| It leads to my next question. | ||
| Which private corporations are directly involved in this program? | ||
| How much taxpayer money has been invested in these programs, to your knowledge? | ||
| We know we audit the Pentagon every year, and I've been here five years, and they fail the dadgum thing every year. | ||
| They lose over a billion dollars a year, we think, and I was told the Department of Defense, maybe 60% of their assets are unaccounted for, whatever the heck that means. | ||
| sector, you go to jail for that kind of crap. | ||
| So, tell me. | ||
| Yeah, I know when I'm a dollar off of my DTS travel voucher, I get hammered, but it seems like it doesn't work the other way around. | ||
| If you sell over $600 worth of stuff on eBay now, you get a call from the IRS. | ||
| So, please, what corporations? | ||
| Yeah, I don't know the specific metrics towards the end of your question. | ||
| The specific corporations I did provide to the committees in specific divisions and I spent 11 and a half hours with both intel committees. | ||
| Okay. Has there been any, has there been an active U.S. | ||
| government disinformation campaign to deny the existence of unidentified aerial phenomena? And if so, why? | ||
| I can't go beyond what I've already expoused publicly about that. | ||
| Okay. I've been told to ask you what that is and how to get it in the record. | ||
| What have you stated publicly in your interviews for the congressional record? | ||
| If you reference my News Nation interview and I talk about a multi-decade campaign to disenfranchise public interest, basically. | ||
| I apologize, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. | ||
| Negative 21 seconds. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you, Mr. Ocasio-Cortez. | |
| Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our witnesses for coming here today. | ||
| I do concur with the Ranking Member, as well as several other members here on this committee, that this is a committee for whistleblowers and for the protection of whistleblowers as well. | ||
| So we understand what you're putting on the table here and what you're putting on the line here, and we thank you for that. | ||
| Mr. Grush, you sat on the Unidentified Anomalous Phenomenon Task Force created in the 2020 NDAA, correct? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| There have been some things that have been mentioned here during this hearing that I wanted to pick up on. | ||
| Mr. Graves, you mentioned specifically during the answers to one of your questions, you named Boeing contractors being engaged in an incident regarding this red cube about a football field wide. | ||
| I was wondering if you could speak a little bit about the interaction Or Mr. Grush, either of you, the interactions between defense contractor companies and any UAP-related programs or activities. | ||
| So I'll just say that the information about the contractor himself were provided by a witness, and I have no particular detail in that relationship. | ||
| Mr. Grush? | ||
| The kind of general unclass wavetops, certainly the contractors, you know, or the metal benders, so to speak, are the ones actually doing specific performance on government contracts. | ||
| Are they required to issue any disclosure regarding UAP sightings or do they engage in any reporting around this? | ||
| In terms of the contractors? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| Not that I'm aware of. | ||
| They do not. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Now, when it comes to notification that you had mentioned about IRAP programs, we have seen defense contractors abuse their contracts before through this committee. | ||
| I have seen it personally, and I have also seen the notification requirements to Congress abused. | ||
| I am wondering One of the loopholes that we see in the law is that there is, at least from my vantage point, is that depending on what we're seeing is that there are no actual definitions or requirements for notification. | ||
| What methods of notification did you observe? | ||
| Like when they say they notified Congress, how did they do that? | ||
| Do you have insight into that? | ||
| For certain IRAD activities, and I can only think of ones conventional in nature, sometimes they flow through certain, I'll just say SAP programs that have cognizant authority over The Air Force or something, and those are congressionally reported compartments, but IRAD is literally internal to the contractors, so as long as it's money, either profits, private investment, etc., they can do whatever they want. | ||
| To put a finer point on it, when there is a requirement for any agency or company to notify Congress, do they contact the chairman of a committee? | ||
| Do they get them on the phone specifically? | ||
| Is this through an email to, hypothetically, a dead email box? | ||
| A lot of it comes through what they call the PPR, Periodic Program Review Process, if it's a SAP or Controlled Access Program Equity, and then those go to the specific committees, whether it be the SAS, CASC, HSE. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| I apologize, my time is limited. | ||
| Mr. Graves, one of your main concerns is that the FAA currently does not have an official process to receive reports of UAP from pilots or others, correct? | ||
| Correct. | ||
| And in your experience, what data should the AERO program prioritize for potential collection? | ||
| We have, you know, location, date, time, but are there other specific characteristics that should be included in these reports? | ||
| Certainly. | ||
| I think that there's two categories that would be important. | ||
| One would be kinematics and understanding the specifics of how the vehicle or objects are moving. | ||
| And the second would be a more zoomed out approach of being able to look at origin and destination after or before the incident, as well as getting a better contextual understanding of how these objects are interacting with each other. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Now, because I only have a minute left, I apologize we only have five minutes today, but for the record, if you were me, where would you look? | ||
| Titles? | ||
| Programs? | ||
| Departments? | ||
| Regions? | ||
| If you could just name anything. | ||
| And I put that as an open question to the three of you. | ||
| I'd be happy to give you that in a closed environment. | ||
| I can tell you specifically. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Um, Commander Craver? | ||
| I would say, and I've told people, you have to know where to look. | ||
| They're not going to divulge it to you because of the classification levels. | ||
| But if you know where to look and who to talk to, which is exactly where Mr. Grush can point you, then you have them. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Mr. Graves? | ||
| I was an operator, so I was defending on folks like Mr. Grush to do that homework. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| I yield back to the Chair. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mr. Biggs? | |
| Thanks. | ||
| Thanks, Mr. Chairman. | ||
| I thank the witnesses for being here today. | ||
| I'm over here. | ||
| Thank you so much for being here. | ||
| I want to get into specifics here, and the reason I'm going to go this way is because you've talked a bit about what I would call misdirection by official U.S. | ||
| government with regard to UAPs, right? | ||
| And so I'm going to get to that in a second. | ||
| But last week, White House NSC spokesman John Kirby stated that UAPs are having an impact on our training ranges and need to be treated as a legitimate issue. | ||
| Do you concur with his statements? | ||
| That's for each of you. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Now, having said that, I'm going to take you to specific instances around the Phoenix Valley, because that's where I live. | ||
| In 97, we had the famous Phoenix light case. | ||
| I don't know if any of you are familiar with that. | ||
| There were two things that went along with that, and the explanation was military training range off Luke and the Barry Goldwater range. | ||
| Do you know anything different other than the official explanation of those lights? | ||
| Only what's in the public vernacular about it. | ||
| That was outside the scope of my duties. | ||
| And if we wanted to, just my question along with my colleague from New York, Ms. | ||
| Ocasio-Cortez, if we wanted to find out more about that, where would we go to find the files and who would we address? | ||
| And are you going to tell me we need to go to a SCIF so you can tell us in a SCIF? | ||
| I could potentially give you a vector on that. | ||
| That specific case, I'm familiar with it in terms of public, but I give you a vector in a closed environment. | ||
| That would be good, thank you. | ||
| So if it's true that UAPs are having an impact on training ranges, and this administration considers it to be a legitimate issue, what steps can Congress take to address training range impacts? | ||
| And I say that having two very large training ranges in my state. | ||
| And so we'll start with Mr. Graves and go on down the panel. | ||
| Some of the initial procedures have been implemented, such as within the United States Navy, that have a range follow report that gathers information from pilots. | ||
| I understand that a service-wide reporting mechanism is still pending. | ||
| However, that would be a great next step, not only for gathering information, but for showing the troops that it is an acceptable topic and reducing the stigma. | ||
| Yeah, as a recipient of a lot of those training range reports, sometimes we only get contextual kind of oral reporting. | ||
| It'd be nice if they attached all sensor data and there's a system in place that can handle multiple classifications of data, and that's an issue with the F-35, right? | ||
| That jet was never built to be an ISR platform, and it's a pain in the butt to get that data off. | ||
| Yeah, I would agree with the previous two, being a user of those training ranges, that the data has to be out there, you have to acknowledge that you're seeing them, and then you have to collect the data. | ||
| Right now, you get the report, someone says, I saw something, but no one collects the radar data to back it up and do research. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Do you believe that the 2019 classification guidelines for UAPs interferes with the federal government's ability to be transparent with the American people, and do you think we need to be more transparent with the American people? | ||
| All of you, yeah. | ||
| I'll say yes to that. | ||
| I'm familiar with the UAP Task Force 2019 Security Classification Guide. | ||
| I think it's fair. | ||
| I did actually help author that. | ||
| Uh-oh, you got a bias that way then. | ||
| But I will say, I'll call it a lazy attitude about declassifying videos. | ||
| I mean, I've seen some of the videos of the recent shoot down and I saw no reason that couldn't have been released as long as they mask some data. | ||
| The American people deserve to see that imagery and full motion video. | ||
| I would think, well, in my opinion, I will say, things are over classified. | ||
| I know for a fact, the video or the pictures that came out in the 20, I think it was 2020 report, that had the stuff off the East Coast, they were taken with an iPhone off the East Coast. | ||
| A buddy of mine was one of the senior people there, and he said they were originally classified to TSSCI. | ||
| And my question to him was, what's TSSCI about these? | ||
| They're an iPhone, literally off the vacapes. | ||
| That's not TSSCI. | ||
| So they're over classified, and as soon as they do that, they go in a vault, and then you all have to look for them. | ||
| Yes, so, with the over-classification, that may be one way. | ||
| Are there other ways that the DOD or intelligence agencies are keeping this information from the American people, or even from Congress? | ||
| I think part of that has been not encouraging reporting. | ||
| If the problem is not something that can be measured, it's not something that's going to be fixed. | ||
| Okay, very good. | ||
| Well, I'm out of time, and I thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back. | ||
|
unidentified
|
First of all, without objection, Representative Nick Langworthy of New York is waived on the subcommittee for purpose of questioning witnesses at today's subcommittee hearing. | |
| And then we go to Mr. Burleson. | ||
| Thank you, Mr. Chairman. | ||
| I appreciate you guys coming out today testifying. | ||
| Look, I've been here for six months, and I'm pretty skeptical. | ||
| I don't trust anything in this town, and I think that's because I'm from Missouri. | ||
| You've got to show me, right? | ||
| With that being said, there's been a lot of things that have been said in the public, Mr. Grush, and so I want to get down to, if we can, some specifics, right? | ||
| So, at one point you had said that there has been harmful activity or aggressive activity. | ||
| Has any of the activity been aggressive, been hostile in your reports? | ||
| I know of multiple colleagues of mine that got physically injured and the activity... By UAPs or by people within the federal government? | ||
| Both. | ||
| Okay, so there has been activity by alien or non-human technology and or beings that has caused harm to humans. | ||
| I can't get into the specifics in an open environment, but at least the activity that I personally witnessed, and I have to be very careful here, because you don't, you know, they tell you never to acknowledge tradecraft, right? | ||
| So, what I personally witnessed, myself and my wife, was very disturbing. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| One of my constituents actually sent this next question, and I figured I'd ask it since I had the same thought. | ||
| You've said that the U.S. | ||
| has intact spacecraft. | ||
| You said that the government has alien bodies or alien species. | ||
| Have you seen the spacecraft? | ||
| I have to be careful to describe what I've seen firsthand and not in this environment, but I could answer that question behind closed doors. | ||
| And have you seen any of the bodies? | ||
| That's something I've not witnessed myself. | ||
| Okay, and so with that being said, the other statement that has been made that was intriguing to me, and it's intriguing because my view has been that we are billions of light years away from any other system. | ||
| And the concept that an alien species that's technologically advanced enough to travel billions of light years gets here and somehow is incompetent enough to not survive Earth or crashes is something that I find a little bit far-fetched. | ||
| And with that being said, you have mentioned that there's interdimensional potential. | ||
| Could you expound on that? | ||
| I'll get to answer your first question and, you know, I'm here as a fact witness and expert, but I will give you a theoretical framework at least to work off to kind of espouse crashes regardless of, you know, your level of sentience, right? | ||
| You know, planes crash, cars crash. | ||
| N number of sorties, however high, a small percentage are going to end in, you know, mission failure, if you will, as we say in the Air Force. | ||
| And then in terms of multi-dimensionality, that kind of thing, the framework that I'm familiar with, for example, is something called the holographic principle. | ||
| It derives itself from general relativity and quantum mechanics. | ||
| And that is, if you want to imagine 3D objects such as yourself casting a shadow onto a 2D surface, that's the holographic principle. | ||
| So you can be projected, quasi-projected from higher dimensional space to lower dimensional. | ||
| It's a scientific trope that you can actually cross. | ||
| Literally, as far as I understand, but there's probably guys with PhDs that we could probably argue about that. | ||
| But you have not seen any documentation that that's what's occurring? | ||
| Only a theoretical framework discussion. | ||
| Okay. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Occam's Razor. | ||
| Is that these aircraft, have they been identified that they are being produced by domestic military contractors? | ||
| Is there any evidence that that's what's being recovered? | ||
| Not to my knowledge, plus the recoveries predate a lot of our advanced programs that I previously am witting of. | ||
| Would it be safe to say that there could be a scenario today where you have an aircraft that crashes because it's been involved in one program from one federal agency, but the agency that retrieves it is not aware of that program, and to them it appears alien in origin? | ||
| I mean, that's a hypothetical situation. | ||
| I'm not aware of any historical situation that would match that that you described. | ||
| You're not aware? | ||
| It has not happened that you're aware of? | ||
| That I'm aware of. | ||
| Thank you, Mr. Chairman. | ||
| I yield back. | ||
| I sought a briefing regarding that episode and brought with me Congressman Burchett and Congresswoman Luna. | ||
| We asked to see any of the evidence that had been taken by flight crew in this endeavor and to observe any radar signature as well as to meet with the flight crew. | ||
| We were not afforded access to all of the flight crew. | ||
| And initially, we were not afforded access to images and to radar. | ||
| Thereafter, we had a bit of a discussion about how authorities flow in the United States of America, and we did see the image. | ||
| And we did meet with one member of the flight crew who took the image. | ||
| The image was of something that I am not able to attach to any human capability, either from the United States or from any of our adversaries. | ||
| And I'm somewhat informed on the matter, having served on the Armed Services Committee for seven years, having served on the committee that oversees DARPA and advanced technologies for several years. | ||
| When we spoke with the flight crew, and when he showed us the photo that he'd taken, I asked why the video wasn't engaged, why we didn't have a FLIR system that worked. | ||
| Here's what he said. | ||
| They were out on a test mission that day over the Gulf of Mexico, and when you're on a test mission, you're supposed to have clear airspace, not supposed to be anything that shows up. | ||
| and they saw a sequence of four craft in a clear diamond formation for which there is a radar sequence that I and I alone have observed in the United States Congress. | ||
| One of the pilots goes to check out that diamond formation and sees a large floating, what I can only describe as an orb, again, like I said, not of any human capability that I'm aware of. | ||
| And when he approached, he said that his radar went down, he said that his FLIR system malfunctioned, and that he had to manually take this image from one of the lenses, and it was not automated in collection, as you would typically see Well, I think this goes to that national security side. | ||
| with Commander Fravor, how should we think about the fact that this craft that was approached by our pilot had the capability of disarming a number of the sensor and collection systems on that craft? | ||
| Well, I think this goes to that national security side, and you can go back through history of things showing up at certain areas and disabling our capabilities, which is disheartening. | ||
| And for us, I mean, like I said, it completely disabled the radar on the aircraft when I tried to do it, and the only way we could see it is passively, which is how we got that image. | ||
| So I think that's a concern on what are these doing, not only how do they operate, but their capabilities inside to do things like this. | ||
| And how should we think about four craft moving in a very clear formation, equidistant from one another, in a diamond? | ||
| In all of the phenomenon, perhaps, Mr. Grave, that you've analyzed, have we ever seen multiple craft in a single formation? | ||
| I have one particular case, and that was during the gimbal incident. | ||
| The recording on the AT FLIR system shows a single object that rotates. | ||
| You hear the pilots refer to a fleet of objects that is not visible on the FLIR system, and that was something that I witnessed during the debrief as part of the radar data on the situational awareness page. | ||
| I would like to add, however, Congressman, there's a small bit of anger, I would say. | ||
| I would feel that those pilots are still facing that difficulty in reporting this topic and they don't have the tools to be able to mitigate this issue. | ||
| It just goes to show how serious this is and why this is such an important issue for our pilots and for our nation. | ||
| It was stated explicitly to me by these test pilots that if you have AU of AP experience, the best thing you can do for your career is forget it and not tell anyone because any type of reporting Either above the surface or below the surface does have a perceived consequence to these people and that is a culture we must change if we want to get to the truth. | ||
| Mr. Chairman, I would observe that perhaps as we move forward from this hearing there are some obvious next steps. | ||
| Every person watching this knows that we need to meet with Mr. Grush in a secure compartmentalized facility so that we can get Fulsome answers that do not put him in jeopardy and that give us the information we need. | ||
| Second, I would suggest that the radar images that were collected of this formation of craft out of Eglin Air Force Base and specifically the actual image taken by the actual flight crew that we can actually validate be provided to the committee, subpoenaed if necessary, So that we're able to track how to get this type of reporting and analysis done in a more fulsome way. | ||
| That would be my recommendation, humbly, as a guest here of the Fine Oversight Committee. | ||
| I yield back. | ||
| So this is explosive. | ||
| You look at the testimony and of course Gates cuts to the chase about getting into a SCIF or a classified environment so these guys can open up about it. | ||
| Other breaking news, Mallorca is getting lit up. | ||
| Over about child trafficking at another hearing. | ||
| We'll play that today, later. | ||
| You've got the MSNBC headline is the Hunter Biden deal is hanging by a thread right now in a court. | ||
| The judge must say, hey, look, if you've got immunity for your business deals, dude, I don't know if that's going to hack it with me. | ||
| And this whole thing may be thrown out. | ||
| We're going to get to all that. | ||
| Dr. Malone, I really want to thank you. | ||
| We've got a couple of minutes here before we go. | ||
| But your issue about population control dovetails with what we just heard. | ||
| You've got the U.S. | ||
| government pursuing policies and having information on things that they keep absolutely away from the eyes of the American people, sir. | ||
| And the same agency is involved. | ||
| This is obviously CIA and USAID cooperating. | ||
| I am inclined to say conspiring to withhold information from the general public regarding the established policies of the United States government, which are totally contrary with the Let's say ethics of a very large fraction of the population, particularly as it relates to abortion policy and birth control in general. | ||
| And then there's this just really dark, real politic angle of suppressing population growth in the least developed countries so that we can maintain our capabilities to extract natural resources from those underdeveloped economies. | ||
| This also threads into the other sub stack that you kindly mentioned earlier regarding green colonialism which is another example of weaponization of a pseudo crisis, in this case the climate crisis, in order to engage in practices which are economically damaging to emerging economies. | ||
| The common thread through all of this is, as you've taught me, the American imperial state, the desire to really jettison any fundamental ethics in the pursuit of imperial and economic interests. | ||
| Again, looking back to the climate change agenda, Bafflingly, in these 1970s documents that are still in place as American policy, we have explicit acknowledgement about the potential impact and benefits of climate change. | ||
| In this case, they were still talking about global cooling, on availability of food supplies, and the positive impact that would have on reduction of population growth. | ||
| Consistent with what we have many people have speculated is ongoing during the COVID crisis and subsequent where we see these efforts to manipulate food supply, etc. It's fascinating how all of these things are converging around this single point of the administrative state and in particular the intelligence community and in particular within the intelligence community, the CIA. I gave | ||
| an interview to Sean Spicer the other day that will be coming out soon in which I spoke about a number of things that I've come to understand about the role of the CIA in managing the COVID crisis directly. We already knew that they were behind the Moderna technology and advancing that and capitalizing it. | ||
| How do people get to your Substack and social media? | ||
| We're going to have you back on in more detail about this, but where do people go? | ||
| Thank you, Steve. | ||
| It's always a pleasure, and I'm forever indebted to MAGA and the War Room and the Posse. | ||
| rwmalonemd.substack.com, and a lot of these documents can be found at maloneinstitute.org. | ||
| In addition to a lot of our detailed research documents concerning the World Economic Forum. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Over. | |
| Thank you, brother. | ||
| Thank you, Dr. Moe. | ||
| We'll have you back on. | ||
| We're going to go through all of this. | ||
| Explosive hearing on Capitol Hill on what the government knows and has refused to tell you about. | ||
| Explosive hearing at Homeland Security about the trafficking of women and children. | ||
| Also, we can report right now, across the wire, the Hunter Biden deal looks like it is off. | ||
| Want to repeat that. | ||
| The Hunter Biden deal is off. | ||
| Game on, baby. | ||
| Charlie Kirk picks it up from here. | ||
| Two hours of populist nationalism on Real America's Voice, followed by Jack Pasovic. | ||
| We're going to be back from five to seven with all the players you heard today and much, much more. |
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