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July 15, 2023 - Bannon's War Room
48:57
Episode 2879: Marc Andreessen Pushes For AI Weapons; The Day War Comes To America
Participants
Main voices
b
ben harnwell
09:01
j
joe allen
09:09
s
steve bannon
21:05
Appearances
j
joe scarborough
01:14
m
marc andreessen
01:23
Clips
e
elon musk
00:11
j
jake tapper
00:08
m
matt gaetz
00:10
m
mika brzezinski
00:45
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Speaker Time Text
steve bannon
This is the primal scream of a dying regime.
Pray for our enemies.
unidentified
Because we're going medieval on these people.
steve bannon
I got a free shot at all these networks lying about the people.
The people have had a belly full of it.
I know you don't like hearing that.
I know you try to do everything in the world to stop that, but you're not going to stop it.
It's going to happen.
jake tapper
And where do people like that go to share the big lie?
unidentified
MAGA Media.
jake tapper
I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.
unidentified
Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose?
steve bannon
If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.
unidentified
War Room. Here's your host, Stephen K. Babb.
mika brzezinski
How does he continue this type of momentum in terms of not just the optics, but a real kind of generating a sense of having complete control over the situation?
What's different at the NATO summit?
joe scarborough
Nothing's different.
And that's the thing.
I mean, I will say this, Mika, following up on what you said a couple of days ago that got you in the red on the Drudge Report, which is pretty big when they give you the red headline.
They do have to schedule him better.
They do have to schedule him better.
And I thought it was important for them to say, hey, you know what?
He's been going night and day.
We're going to let him take off for the dinner.
Of course, plan that ahead next time.
But little things like that make a big difference.
mika brzezinski
Joe, look at this.
Everything here is tightly produced.
It's beautiful.
Everything here allows these world leaders to do what they do.
And there's no concern about the small things.
And I would suggest that what I said, that I guess put me in the red, is taken seriously when he comes back home.
Because this president is good at what he does.
joe scarborough
I've always told people No, I just always told people that he's, the president's very sharp.
If you say something or write something, there have been times he's called and he's refuted it very sharply.
I've talked to foreign leaders that have had conversations with him that said that he was on top of every issue and to the degree that they were actually some Some some NATO leaders have told me they were very surprised the contrast between the image in public and the Joe Biden behind closed doors, because he is so sharp and he's on top of everything.
So much of it has to do with present.
steve bannon
Yeah.
I thought I was going to be able to in planning for the shot, I was going to sit through this and we got the NDA piece, but I can't take any more.
They are going out of the way.
This guy has got a low approval rating.
Everything he touches turns into complete fiasco.
And, uh, I mean, the lackeys over at, uh, at Morning Joe, and this is a big newsflash for the Morning Joe thing.
You know, he's got the red at Drudge.
That's still really important.
No, it's not important.
Nobody goes there.
Years ago, Drudge used to change narratives and used to drive narratives.
That doesn't happen anymore.
I don't know if Matt Drudge is still there or not.
It's all kind of rumors.
All I know is the site is quite fleet average, as we say in the Navy.
Ben Harnwell, there was a lot of activity.
You've been so right on what's happening in this war.
Really, you, Posobiec, and Boris, since the very beginning of this conflict, have been the three people that have been ahead of the curve here and really explaining to our audience, I think uniquely, What's happening over here?
Of course, yesterday, the inactive reserves called up.
Part of this is, as you can see, the recruiting problem of the wokeness is coming back to bite us.
But this is also a forerunner of, I think, dangerous times ahead in combat troops ahead of us.
Obviously, this deal was cut in Lithuania, was it not?
Ben Harnwell to Biden have come back in action so quickly, sir.
ben harnwell
Good evening, Steve.
Well, yeah, I mean, it's the first point to make about this.
And just to quickly give the background, the Pentagon announced yesterday that up to 3,000 reservists are going to be called up, can be called up to be sent over to assist in the effort.
There are a number of points to make and the first point I have to make is to give full credit here to the statement that Donald Trump put out a couple of hours ago, where he makes the point, I don't know if Dem was able to put that up as I'm talking, but he makes the absolute point here, the reason that Biden has been forced to this manoeuvre.
It's because of the general depletion of US resources thus far, executed over the last year and a half, which is absolutely true.
The other point to make, obviously, is that this is a massive escalation, Steve.
Even if a war hasn't formally been declared, that's the reality.
That even reservists are going to be called up to be sent over there just shows you how desperate the administration is.
A couple of points I would like to make here, because it's known that there are about 80,000 US troops over in continental Europe right now.
But I think some precision is finally, the White House needs to provide some precision if this is the stage that we're now at.
And there are some certain questions.
For example, how many troops are presently in Ukraine, right?
Of the 80,000 in Europe, how many are in Ukraine?
Are any of them in active combat situations?
Some people are suggesting that it's difficult to know how many U.S.
troops will be out there because they won't be wearing their uniform.
unidentified
Other analysts are saying quite reasonably that only Americans... But hang on, hang on.
steve bannon
We were going to have Lauren Boebert was going to come in with you and talk about things because of votes and other things are happening.
We can't get Congressman Boebart on today.
And by the way, the six o'clock show is loaded.
We get and we moved a lot of things around to accommodate Congressman Boebart.
But it often happens during the workday.
They get tied with votes and other these meetings.
And there's a firestorm over there right now, Ben.
And I just want to make for our audience.
And this is one of the problems I have and have said from day one.
Yesterday on this national defense, and we've got a cold open for the National Defense Authorization.
I may call for a second.
On the National Defense Authorization Act, there were a number of amendments put up to try to get the woke part out of it.
And some of these failed.
And at the forefront of this, on the Ukraine side, not the woke part, but on the Ukraine side, was Matt Gaetz.
Once again, Matt Gaetz taking the lead.
And, you know, Matt Gaetz put a limitation in no money to go over there for their security.
Voted down.
I think he got 70 votes against, 300 votes, or 350 votes against.
One of the congressmen put up an amendment to the NDA, which is essentially a trillion dollar defense budget and supposed to be policy also.
Ben, he put up a request not to have a War Powers Resolution, which we are demanding here at the War Room.
He put up just a part of this trillion dollar budget.
Can the Biden administration, with plenty of time, can they just come back and give us a strategic report?
a report on what the strategy is. And Ben, it would call for a number of things, just basics.
Do we have troops there? How many troops there? Do we have paramilitary there? How much money have we really spent? Are audits underway? You said the other day, we're sending cluster bombs, but you weren't saying we're war crimes because we're out of ammo. The Brits are out of ammo, our allies are out of ammo. Can we just have a basic strategic report, something simple, just so we can put it all in one thing and not have to look at MSNBC and Fox I read the New York Times.
It got 129 votes, Ben.
200 and some votes, almost 300 votes against it.
129 votes even to make sure.
almost 300 votes against it. 129 votes even to make sure.
This thing is so out of control. We have no earthy idea on...
We don't have an iota.
MTG recalled for the audits.
That's not been shluffed aside.
Two weeks ago, Ben, you were on here on the day they found the second accounting problem for $5 billion, right?
We are headed into, it is called the inactive reserve.
Remember, these are inactive reserves.
When you're in the military and you get out, you do your five years, you can either stay as a reserve and do your weekend training and go for a couple weeks in the summer and everything like that, or you can just go inactive.
The guys that go inactive say, hey, listen, I've taken my time, I've basically washed my hands, and I go on to my civilian life.
It's the inactive reserves that are calling up.
This is quite extraordinary.
Because of the need to manpower.
So Ben, when you sit there, continue on, but I'm saying, our Congress, Republican-controlled House, let me repeat this, a Republican-controlled House, Matt Gaetz and a handful of warriors, Eli Crane, Lauren Boebert, Rosendahl, the typical names we talk about all the time, kind of came forward and tried to have, force even a conversation and a debate On the Ukraine and the woken weaponized got a little traction.
Ukraine basically shut down 70 votes to not send any money and only 129 votes, I think, to actually make Biden come to the table strategy.
And if we don't force him.
Now, to come forward with a War Powers Resolution, we are asking for it.
We are asking to be drawn into this kinetic, the kinetic part of this conflict, not just arming them and sending boatloads of unaccountable cash.
Ben Harnwell.
ben harnwell
Well, you mentioned the War Powers Resolution.
A lot of people think that that in itself is unconstitutional.
We're talking about the 1973 Act here.
A lot of people suggest that that itself is unconstitutional because it gives limited power to a president to act in a war-like fashion without obtaining from Congress a declaration of war.
Now, given the current composition of the Supreme Court, now might be the best time to get that clarified.
steve bannon
Hold it.
But hang on.
I want you to go back and take your time and do that again, because I know you're more of the libertarian Ben sometimes.
This is actually, when I keep asking for a War Powers Act, I'm even avoiding the question that Rand Paul and many of our constitutionalists put forward go, hey, Even that's unconstitutional because he's got to come to Congress to get any of this going.
I mean, think about it for a second.
We're so far away from that.
We're so post-constitutional, Ben.
They didn't even think about coming and asking for a declaration of war.
They're not even coming asking for the maybe unconstitutional big question up in the air, War Powers Act, which I think has to be tested at the Supreme Court to find out whether it is not.
We're just asking for a strategic report.
Just, hey, since you're going to get all this money approved, how about a little something for the effort?
That only gets 129 votes, sir.
unidentified
Yeah.
ben harnwell
Well, you know, times are a bit different from the Vietnam War, right?
Because we have social media now.
We have direct communication.
We have iPhones that we can record things.
Look, I don't want to be too controversial, but let me just say, when the United States allowed itself to be guided in to the entrance into the Vietnam War by the Gulf of Tonkin, wasn't it, when the US ship was hit?
And that's something that we need to be watching out for now, right?
A similar instance, definitely.
But when that happened, you know, Americans trusted their news anchors.
They trusted the broadsheets.
They trusted the media.
People don't trust any of this anymore.
So I think it would be more difficult for—I hope it would be more difficult for the U.S.
to reproduce a Vietnam-like scenario in Ukraine.
But that is certainly the move.
If you look at the moves, this is what's doing.
And here's another point when I say it's different.
What should happen is that I do think that, you know, I'm not a constitutional expert, but it does seem to me that the constitution is pretty clear in giving the power, the authority to declare war uniquely and exclusively to the Congress.
That sort of makes it inalienable.
That is to say that Congress can't delegate that power to any other body, including the president, even if Congress wanted to, for that change in the Constitution.
The Constitution hasn't been changed.
Therefore, I would suggest that the War Powers Resolution is in and of itself unconstitutional.
As I said, now would be the right time, I think, uniquely the right time to get this tested by the Supreme Court.
unidentified
But one of the fundamental differences between now Please go ahead.
ben harnwell
One of the fundamental differences between now and 50 years ago is there's, I think, a far more direct interaction on behalf, you know, things like the War Room and other news organizations.
There's a far more engaged, interactive mediation between events.
Between specific congressmen and senators and the American public.
What we should do now, and as you point out correctly, notionally, that the House is currently being controlled by the Republicans, is that we should force every single Republican to come in.
And obviously, I think McCarthy, you know, this is the Uniparty in its glory.
But make them vote.
steve bannon
Yes.
Hang on for one second, Ben.
I'm gonna hold you through.
Ben Harnwell from Rome.
Firefight over the National Defense Authorization Act.
A complete total debacle.
Total and complete.
Next in the War Room.
unidentified
Spread the word all through Hong Kong.
We will fight till they're all gone.
We rejoice when there's no more.
So let's take down the CCD!
War Room, here's your host, Stephen K. Banner.
steve bannon
Ben, here's a question for you for this audience.
Was this deal, were there secret deals and secret arrangements?
I mean, why did Biden come back and immediately call up 3,000 active reserve and to support this Ukraine war effort?
Were there deals, secret deals cut in Lithuania that we don't know about?
ben harnwell
I think this is the immediate manifestation of such deals.
I suggest the reason was political, Steve, as the whole of Biden's behaviour and impulses has been since the beginning of the war.
He needed to some degree regain an initiative and to show strength.
He has to give the appropriate material to Mourning Mika.
And one of the ways of doing that, having so publicly resisted the entrance of Ukraine into NATO, I think this was his way of saying, you know, that he's not totally senile and in La La Land and he's still, you know, a moral leadership force on the world stage.
And that's why he announced that.
That would be my speculation.
It's a sort of quid pro quo for the lack of timetable or invitation to Ukraine.
steve bannon
Let me ask you, the most dangerous, I argue now that we're in the most dangerous time of this conflict.
Because, and correct me if I'm wrong, you covered it, I asked you the other day, they didn't really have any presentations on the summer offensive or counter-offensive, and if it had been going even a scintilla of good, that's all you would have heard.
Zelensky's this war hero, in fact, his isolation looked to me like politicians trying to, I don't want to really get in the photo with this guy, because he could end up being president at DM pretty quickly, or removed, or we find some big scandal, or, because he's not going to make it through a failed Offensive.
That's also why he threw such a big temper tantrum.
I need to get in NATO now.
Right?
I don't need it.
Don't wait for the results of this.
How dangerous of a time is it right now?
We're supplying them cluster bombs.
There looks like another major arms escalation.
This offensive, they're going to get more and more desperate as this offensive is not getting traction.
What's your, and I'm not asking you to speculate, but what's your feel over the next couple of months of how you see this thing playing out?
ben harnwell
Well, I will absolutely speculate, Steve, because as far as I can see, Biden, President Biden has spent the last 18 months wrapping a very dangerous situation in touch paper.
And now he's pouring petrol all over it.
This is the point.
Once you've got sort of troops over there explicitly, you know, this is why it's so dangerous, because for Russia, the territory of an integrity of Ukraine, which is a buffer state, It's not for NATO and it's not for the United States.
What it has become is an issue of existential importance for the future career of President Joe Biden.
Put to one side the fact that is he going to run again?
Will he be kicked out?
Are we already seeing the manoeuvres of the Democratic Party mainstream media complex in the process of throwing him under the bus?
And I think that is absolutely the case.
Whilst he is still president, This issue is of existential importance to his credibility and everything he's saying is underlining that fact and that's his starting point and that's his finishing point.
This is why the situation is so desperate right now because all it will take will be a false flag situation and then of course the military-industrial complex will move up to maximum level and then, you know, It's prayer time, folks.
steve bannon
Ben, hang on for one second.
I don't have time to play the cold open on the NDA, but I want to get back to this.
And this ties so much to our economic well-being, about how we get this economy back on track, and particularly how we stop this mania we have for spending money that we don't actually have, just creating it, and burying us deeper and deeper.
This is like someone's addicted to shopping, right?
And they can't stop.
It's a compulsion.
They can't stop and they keep running up credit cards and they keep getting in bankruptcies and having to get 10 or 15 credit cards.
And it's just it takes over their lives.
This is where we are in this country as a nation and our finances.
This NDAA and look, I'm as big a hawk as anybody, but it's a hawk when you need to be like on the Chinese Communist Party, the South China Sea and Taiwan and taking down the CCP.
This National Defense Authorization Act As Ben has said, and others have said, Dave Brad said this morning, has no strategy tied to it whatsoever.
There's really unencumbered from any strategy.
We're just there, and we're getting bigger, and we need to be there, we need to be everywhere.
This bill is about a trillion dollars.
Not just that, it is inculcated.
The core of it Is wokeness using the defense, which is really the one industrial policy we have as a nation, the defense policy and all the arms industries around it, to use that as a driver of social engineering to diversity, equity and inclusion.
And we haven't taken that out.
They've taken some out, but it's it's it's woven into the fabric of it.
And that's why you have these ridiculous woke field officers and employees That, you know, are having, you're actually sitting there saying, oh, we got to take out the money for the drag queen story hour at the base library for the little children.
There's been one person over the last 72 hours to prove once again, this is Matt Gaetz.
Matt Gaetz has done an extraordinary job, an incredible job, with help of the 20 and the 6 and some other people up to 70 in some of these votes, but it takes leadership.
His leadership, his debating skills, his knowledge has been extraordinary.
Your voice would not have been heard if it was not for Matt Gaetz fighting sophisticated fights.
Can we play also, tell me when we're ready, playing his grilling of the other day of Ray.
Do we have it?
Okay, let's play, let's play.
I want to show you what he did the other day with Ray, just to remind you.
Let's go and see it.
unidentified
The American people need to understand what just happened.
My Democrat colleague just asked the director of the FBI whether or not they are buying information about our fellow Americans.
And the answer is, well, we'll just have to get back to you on that.
It sounds really complicated.
But I have other questions.
I'm sitting here with my father.
matt gaetz
I will make certain that between the man sitting next to me and every person he knows and my ability to forever hold a grudge, that you will regret not following my direction.
unidentified
I am sitting here, waiting for the call with my father.
Sounds like a shakedown, doesn't it, Director?
I'm not going to get into commenting on that.
You seem deeply uncurious about it, don't you?
Almost suspiciously uncurious.
Are you protecting the Bidens?
steve bannon
Absolutely not.
unidentified
The FBI does not and has no interest in protecting anyone politically.
That's a shakedown, and everybody knows why you won't answer it.
Because to the millions of people who will see this, they know it is.
And your inability to acknowledge that is deeply revealing about you.
But let's go from the uncurious to the downright nosy.
How many illegal FISA queries have occurred under your leadership of the FBI?
steve bannon
Only Gates, a little bit Andy Biggs' mother, but Gates took the lead.
Gates takes the lead in the NDAA.
Gates took the lead on grilling Wray to get him to the bottom of it.
Gates is the guy that changed the direction of the country with his leadership, sole leadership.
There were others too, but sole leadership.
The first week of January.
So what's Matt Gaetz's reward for that?
What is Matt Gaetz's reward for being a voice of reason?
A voice of reason.
McCarthy and the Ethics Committee are now doing an ethics investigation on something the FBI dropped because there wasn't anything there.
CNN's reporting they're gonna go back on all these charges, these allegations and smears that came up from the left, from, leaked from DOJ and the FBI that turned it, that wasn't there, they dropped them.
FBI dropped them, DOJ dropped them.
Trust me, if there's a scintilla of anything, they'd have been all over Matt Gaetz.
They weren't.
So what is McCarthy?
And this is how, what a scumbag McCarthy is.
This is the guy that shut down because he took money from Sequoia Capital, shut down a house intelligence investigation with that crook Mike Turner, who's another scumbag who voted not to take out the woke and weaponized in the NDA today.
Mike Turner and people in Dayton and Maggie and Dayton ought to be humiliated.
He's your Congressman.
He shut down an investigation into a major national security threat of a Chinese operative, Neil Shen, who works for the Politburo, the head of Sokoi Capital, taking your pension money and funding artificial intelligence weapon systems, and Joe Allen's going to be on here and tell you about AI?
Okay, they shut that down and McCarthy has authorized, look the other way, White Ethics is going to go after Matt Gaetz because they want Matt Gaetz to shut up.
They want to bring Matt Gaetz to heel.
They don't want Matt Gaetz on the NDAA.
They don't want Matt Gaetz going after Wray.
They don't want Matt Gaetz leading the impeachment inquiry into Garland.
They don't want him starting a criminal referral on Chris Wray.
They certainly don't want him With the motion to vacate, so they think they're going to play checkmate on Matt Gaetz.
I got news for McCarthy, and this audience has news.
Over our dead bodies, will you do anything to Matt Gaetz?
Matt Gaetz has been the one person in this entire Congress Even with the heroic leadership of the 6th and the 20th, these other people have come together to try to stop this madness.
McCarthy, when you sold out the country, and I'm telling you brother, there's something quite suspicious about your activity.
You shut down investigations, you took money from Sequoia Capital, you got CCP companies all over your district.
And you allowed Biden to have two years of $15 trillion plus of spending and at least $4 trillion added to our debt?
You, you, you.
And now you're going to come after Matt Gaetz with some phony made-up charges that even a Justice Department that hates him and an FBI that hates him even more dropped?
This is the way the town plays, right?
This is the way the cartel rolls.
Well, you're not taking Matt Gaetz off the board, okay?
Because Matt Gaetz is an American patriot and Matt Gaetz is an American hero.
He is the only voice up there that consistently on so many topics, as I say in sports, he's got range and depth.
And trust me, we will not let it happen.
Short break.
unidentified
Here's your host, Stephen K. Bann.
The UK Battle.
steve bannon
Oh Okay, I'll have more to say about Gage tomorrow at Turning Point and then again on Monday as we drill down on this because this is very important.
They're trying to take out your leaders.
Ben, I know you've got to bounce.
I appreciate you staying up this late.
Where do people get?
And we'll get in more to it on Monday and next week, because there's a lot going on here.
You've done extraordinary coverage of this entire situation.
Also, I've got to talk about the rise of the right-wing parties.
The New York Times is all over it.
We've got a bunch of analysis.
We'll get to that next week, too.
How do people get to you, Ben, over the weekend?
ben harnwell
Thank you so much, Steve.
My social media platform of choice is Getter, and folks can find me there simply by typing in my surname, Harnrell, at Harnrell, and also by registering for our exclusive newsletters, which I write as well as Joe Allen, for warroom.org.
You asked a rhetorical question, what reward will there be for Matt Gaetz earlier?
I want to say, just before I jump, that I think he'll be Speaker one day.
The reason I think he's going to be speaker is because the Uni Party knows that its time is coming to an end.
It knows it's lost people's support.
Just look at what they did.
What they announced a couple of days ago, little Marco Rubio and Tim Kaine are presenting a bill to stop a future president, i.e.
Donald Trump, from taking America out of NATO.
They know that it's moving beyond their grasp.
So I think that Matt Gaetz obviously won't see it as a reward, but I think things are changing very quickly.
And that is the way things will go.
I think the day that uniparty hacks like Kevin McCarthy will be able to sit there and manipulate things while pretending to do exactly the opposite, those days are coming to a close, Steve.
steve bannon
I 100% agree with you, Ben Hornewill.
Quite astute observation.
Thank you, Ben.
Thank you for staying up and being with us.
Appreciate it.
unidentified
God bless.
steve bannon
Ben Hornewill from Rome.
I've got a call, but I want to make sure everybody, the Durban, this whole NDAA, one of the reasons, not just the woke, it's the scale of it, another trillion dollars, right?
That only leads to more trouble.
And I'm all for a strong national defense, trust me, and a great Navy.
But this is not getting you that.
It's not.
If I thought it was, I would support it.
I don't support it because it's not getting us there.
Make sure you go to birchgold.com slash Bannon, get the summary of the end of the dollar empire.
You need it as a quick study because everything is happening in Durban on Monday.
I'm carving out time for Dave Brat.
We're going to go through the counter argument of Krugman and the New York Times crowd that says, hey, the de-dollarization is not as bad as you think.
And although these guys are meeting in Durban and they're coming up with an alternative currency and that currency is going to have some sort of gold backing.
It's nothing to worry about.
Well, we beg to differ, and we're going to go through it.
But get the summary.
Make sure, look, you got up to speed on the debt ceiling, became a force in that.
That's where this firefight continues.
And you're going to be a bigger force in this issue about this alternative currency.
Also, you can find out why the central banks are buying gold with both hands in 22 and 23.
Ed Dow is also going to join us.
He's going to have an assessment on the economy next hour.
Also some brutal news coming out of the UK on early deaths.
Okay, I've got Joe Allen.
He has an amazing cold open.
Let's play Joe Allen's cold open.
They're going to bring in Joe.
unidentified
I would be surprised if there is not digital superintelligence in roughly the five or six year time frame.
marc andreessen
This is all forecasting.
It's all modeling.
It's all future prediction.
It's all future hypothesizing.
It's not science.
Policies that are being called for, right, to prevent this are of extraordinary magnitude.
And I think we're going to cause extraordinary damage.
unidentified
So the moment you say AI is going to kill all of us, therefore we should ban it or we should regulate all that kind of stuff, that's when it starts getting serious.
marc andreessen
Or start, you know, military airstrikes on data centers.
steve bannon
Oh boy.
marc andreessen
They have a hard time avoiding violence.
The reason they have a hard time avoiding violence is if you actually believe the claim, right, then what would you do to stop the end of the world?
Well, you would do anything, right?
unidentified
Since 2001, I've been working on what we would now call the problem of aligning artificial general intelligence.
How to shape the preferences and behavior of a powerful artificial mind such that it does not kill everyone.
Nobody understands how modern AI systems do what they do.
They are giant, inscrutable matrices of floating-point numbers that we nudge in the direction of better performance until they inexplicably start working.
At some point, the companies rushing headlong to scale AI will cough out something that's smarter than humanity.
Nobody knows how to calculate when that will happen.
If I had more time, I'd try to tell you about the predictable reasons why the current paradigm will not work to build a superintelligence that likes you, or is friends with you, or that just follows orders.
My prediction is that this ends up with us facing down something smarter than us, that does not want what we want, that does not want anything we recognize as valuable or meaningful.
Humanity is not approaching this issue with remotely the level of seriousness that would be required.
Some of the people leading these efforts have spent the last decade not denying that creating a superintelligence might kill everyone, but joking about it.
My best bad take is that we need an international coalition banning large AI training runs, including extreme and extraordinary measures to have that ban be actually and universally effective, like tracking all GPU sales, monitoring all the data centers, being willing to risk a shooting conflict between nations in order to destroy an unmonitored data center in a non-signatory country.
I say this, not expecting that to actually happen.
I say this, expecting that we all just die.
The more and more you have drones, they're becoming more and more autonomous.
You can start imagining, okay, what does that actually look like?
And what's the actual threat of autonomous weapon systems?
How does it go wrong?
marc andreessen
I think it should be required.
ben harnwell
Right.
unidentified
No, no, no, no.
marc andreessen
I think it should be required that only aerial vehicles are automated.
unidentified
Okay.
So you want to go the other way?
marc andreessen
I want to go the other way.
I think it's obvious that the machine is going to make a better decision than the human pilot.
I think it's obvious that it's in the best interest of both the attacker and the defender and humanity at large if machines are making more of these decisions and not people.
I think people make terrible decisions in times of war.
This goes back to that whole thing about does the self-driving car need to be perfect versus does it need to be better than the human driver.
Does the automated drone need to be perfect or does it need to be better than a human pilot at making decisions under enormous amounts of stress and uncertainty?
You know, it's a prosthetic, you know, so like you've got glasses, you've got a wristwatch, you know, you've got shoes, you know, you've got these things, you've got a personal computer, you've got a word processor, you've got Mathematica, you've got Google.
This is the latest view through that lens.
The AI is the latest in a long series of basically augmentation methods to be able to raise human capabilities.
It's just this one is the most powerful one of all because this is the one that goes directly to what they call fluid intelligence, which is IQ.
unidentified
And I think the first part of this issue that should be articulated is AI is kind of a fancy thing.
First of all, it's two letters.
It means artificial intelligence.
elon musk
If this was a Netflix series or something, I'd say the season finale would be a showdown between the Western China and the series finale will be AGI.
steve bannon
Wow.
Joe, you might have outdone yourself on cold opens, quite powerful.
Since Elon Musk has told us that artificial general intelligence is five, the singularity there is five to six years away at most, that makes it on our current time horizon 25, 30, 40 years, 50 years before other people said it's going to happen.
Walk me through what we just heard in relation to that.
joe allen
Well, Steve, I think we try our best to show two different angles.
Sometimes that's day-to-day, sometimes it's the same day.
This is the most extreme viewpoint on AI doom.
That's Eliezer Yudkowsky.
We've covered him extensively.
On the other end, you have Marc Andreessen.
Very, very intelligent.
Has been at the forefront of technological development since, you know, before I was able to touch a computer.
So he's not to be discounted by any means, but he's on the far end of that techno-optimist spectrum.
And the three key takeaways there.
First, the idea of AI doom.
Is it possible to create an artificial intelligence that is so strong, that is so powerful, that it actually turns on its makers and for either its own goals or just simply because of a glitch, starts destroying people.
The second is that issue of lethal autonomous weapons.
That would be drones, that would be even missile systems, that would be gun turrets, it could be many, many different things, but an AI that makes the decision to kill or not to kill.
And the third, and it is really, I think, it sits in the background of all this.
It goes into everything you and Ben Harnwell were talking about, and everything you've been talking about for a decade plus.
The looming confrontation with China, coupled with the confrontation going on right now with Russia.
So you take all those together.
You look at this concept of turning over human decision making of life or death decisions to weapon systems, such as drone swarms, such as automated gun turrets with facial recognition or IP address recognition.
And you couple that with the arms race between the US and China, also the US and Russia, And put on top of all of that, right, as if that wasn't a disturbing enough prospect, because there are many people pushing for that, including Eric Schmidt, former Google CEO.
You put on top of that the possibility of an AI system that either because of its super intelligence or just because it's been handed control, it glitches out and starts killing people.
And that is the conversation We hope to bring the War Room audience into, and we hope that more and more politicians are paying attention to, because as we heard there, our artificial intelligence czar, Kamala Harris, is struggling to keep up.
There are some that aren't.
Josh Hawley, I think, is really, really astute on this.
And in his Twitter space with Elon Musk, Mike Gallagher of Wisconsin, representative from Wisconsin, showed himself to be very, very informed on this.
And honestly, the Democrat from California, Ro Khanna, did as well.
So hopefully more and more politicians who are going to be at the center of legislating this are paying attention to it.
But those three elements, the conflicts already happening geopolitically, the Push to put autonomous lethal weapons out on the battlefield making life or death decisions and then sitting in the background of that the possibility of an imminent singularity or something like it in which an AI system has more control and in many ways better pattern recognition than any human being on earth.
steve bannon
I just want to go to these three and get our audience up to speed on what's going to be, and you can already tell in DC, it's a major part of the conversation.
When you talk about the autonomous systems, let's do that first before we go to break.
They're essentially saying, you heard it in there, that the machine, the computer, the algorithm is always going to be smarter.
Then the human under that type of stress and so whether it's combat pilots or even humans working drones these lethal autonomous systems and I can tell you in the weapons labs.
This is what they're hurtling towards that that is going to be that's going to take over to a large extent the modern battlefield Joe Allen.
joe allen
Yes.
If Denver can throw it up, we've only got just a minute to talk about it, but Bloomberg reported last week about five different large language models that are being tested right now in a military exercise run with, of course, the Department of Defense.
And the purpose is to literally look to the artificial intelligence system as an advisor in an active Then, of course, you have the lethal autonomous systems that are being right now developed by DARPA, and particularly it's the independent startups that they contract out to.
One of those that I just mentioned, Eric Schmidt is starry.
We've covered him a lot.
It's in my book.
Eric Schmidt is at the forefront of pushing for lethal autonomous systems to be out of the human loop.
And his reasoning is that if we don't do it, China will do it, or some other nation will do it, and therefore they will have a superior military.
That's the rock and a hard place that he's presenting.
steve bannon
Hang on a second.
The book is Dark Aeon.
Get it.
Not only will you be the smartest person at the backyard barbecue or at the dinner table on all things transhumanism, the singularity.
Artificial intelligence, but you'll also be the most informed citizen because this is going to be a major topic in politics, culture, civilization, society, business, all of it.
Joe's book is the best compendium to help you think through this.
Great frame of reference.
Short break.
Joe Allen on the other side.
unidentified
And everybody knows why you won't answer it.
Because to the millions of people who will see this, they know it is.
And your inability to acknowledge that is deeply revealing about you.
But let's go from the uncurious to the downright nosy.
How many illegal FISA queries have occurred under your leadership?
steve bannon
They're coming for Matt Gaetz.
Just remember that.
So we've got another, remember, it's a 30-front war.
The heroes and patriots they're always going to come for.
They're coming for Matt Gaetz.
They're not going to get Matt Gaetz.
And as Ben Harnwell said, I believe Matt Gaetz will be Speaker of the House one day.
And I can tell you, if he was Speaker of this House, you'd see a lot more action to saving this nation.
That's why they're coming for him.
They don't want the Matt Gaetz.
Think back since Just January.
Don't even go to last year when he called the shot about what was going to happen in the election.
Just take from January to to everything he's fallen the floor to the FBI, the DOJ, the questioning, the NDAA.
Look at look at the actions of Matt Gaetz and compare that to McCarthy's leadership team.
It's a disgrace.
Absolutely disgrace.
And of course, they're coming for him.
Joe Allen.
The reason I want to go – so the push is to do these lethal autonomous systems.
If you do these lethal autonomous systems now, let's say you start deploying them in the very short term, in the next year or two, where they are actually independent and working without Human constraint on the battlefield.
What happens then when we hit artificial, if we hit artificial general intelligence by the time that Elon Musk comes in, how does that, then we have lethal autonomous systems that could be truly autonomous, including turning on its own makers, sir?
Is that, is that, is that the conundrum we're in right now?
joe allen
It's very, very difficult to call whether or not artificial general intelligence or anything like that It is actually just over the horizon.
What I can say without a doubt is that the rate of progress is definitely accelerating.
And the incentive to make that progress accelerate even more rapidly is that AI arms race, both on the corporate level within America and between nations, but also on the national security front.
Militaries around the world are working on this, but the Chinese military especially It's really important to remember too that the Chinese AI systems, with the exception of their surveillance systems and a few others, they really are way behind the U.S.
so far as anybody here knows.
The problem is, is that it doesn't take much, it wouldn't take that much of a technology transfer to China.
Let's just say that there was a technocratic transhumanist billionaire who had close ties with China, just hypothetically speaking, right?
Like Elon Musk or someone like that.
But that technology transfer would allow them to catch up very, very quickly, especially if the U.S.
was slowing down.
The real problem, as I see it, is this push that is really a fundamental ideology.
The idea that an artificial intelligence system that is sufficiently advanced will be superior to human decision makers, and that that artificial intelligence system will basically function sort of like a god on Earth.
It will be deferred to.
Its decision-making will be like the lawgivers of old, like Hammurabi or something.
It will be the final word.
There's a very wide spectrum on this, but you could hear there with Mark Andreessen this exultant sort of optimism that the AI systems will in fact progress as quickly as guys like Yudkowsky say they will, but rather than warning that they will perhaps have different interests than our own and kill everybody, or at least some people, or take us over and enslave us, Andreessen believes that they should be used for education to make human
being smarter, that they should be used for augmentation for the same purpose.
As people go through their life, AI becomes the sort of lens by which decisions are made.
Then, of course, once you hit a point where the AI on all domains, artificial general intelligence, he doesn't believe that that's coming, by the way, but many do.
You get to that, you then have this technocult exalting this god on earth, this artificial intelligence god.
That's what Google is working towards.
Pretty much openly, that's what OpenAI is working towards quite openly, and a number of other AI companies and startups definitely have that goal in mind, and that cult underneath it is very, very important, because the more people, and especially the more influential people that are in that techno-cult, call it transhumanism, call it optimization, call it long-termism, call it whatever,
The more people of influence that are in that technocult exist and have control and are pulling the levers in society, the closer we will come to total technocracy in which either a machine is making the decisions or, just as likely, the elites who are in control of those autonomous machines make the first decision and then implement those decisions through the technocratic system below.
steve bannon
Joe Allen, the book is Dark Aeon.
You've worked a year on it.
I mean, you've worked your whole life on it, but we put aside a year for you to grind it out.
It's amazing.
It's out in August, but I want people to order it today to go to Amazon.
It's a war room book.
The second we had the indictment with Frank Gaffney on the CCP, this is the second.
We only do books that matter from people that matter.
Joe, real quickly, what's your social media?
How do people get to you over the weekend?
joe allen
We'll be at TPUSA, posting a bit from there, but you can find the book presale at Amazon.com, The Beast.
You can find the book soon at Skyhorse Publishing, and you can find links to this at the top of my social media at J-O-E-B-O-T-X-Y-Z, at the top of the transhumanism tab, warroom.org, and of course my own site, joebot.xyz.
The entire spectrum is covered in this book, from apocalypticism to some positive uses of technology, but the central point, this is a spiritual movement, and the resistance to it also has to be a spiritual movement.
steve bannon
Joe will be with us at turning point to hold posse.
The whole crew is going to be down there tomorrow.
We want you guys to show up and we're going to do a live show there tomorrow and Joe will be part of it.
Joe, thank you very much.
Appreciate it.
joe allen
Thank you very much, Steve.
steve bannon
MyPillow.com promo code WORM.
The 20th anniversary sale.
Mike Lindell will be with us also at Turning Point USA.
Also next hour we're going to be on fire.
We got Natalie Furst with Fauci in the Wuhan lab.
Gain-of-function explosive documentation.
Ed Dowds here with absolutely explosive information coming out of the UK on excess deaths.
Liz Yor blows back on people saying that the movie Sound of Freedom He's taking us in the wrong direction on stopping human trafficking.
Make sure you go to angel.com slash war room to get your ticket right now for this film.
We're going to make it the number one film this weekend, too.
We're in Bedminster with the president next Wednesday.
Hopefully we'll be able to do a broadcast and they're working all that.
Stick around for the second hour of the war room on a Friday.
Next hour is going to be even more intense than this one.
Of that, I can commit you.
unidentified
I saw above me that endless skyway.
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