April 20, 2021 - Bannon's War Room
48:49
Participants
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| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| Okay, welcome. | ||
| This is War Room Pandemic, the evening show. | ||
| Stephen K. Bannon, Raheem Kassam here. | ||
| You're watching, you're looking right now at the seal in the federal courthouse, Hennepin Federal Courthouse in Minneapolis. | ||
| A judge has not come up yet. | ||
| They're going to supposedly read the verdict at five o'clock. | ||
| We're going to go to, I think we've got the Real America's Voice team. | ||
| By the way, we have Boris Epstein, Bernie Kerik, Rudy Giuliani, and Sam Faddis from the CIA. | ||
| All of them here for commentary with Rahim and myself in studio. | ||
| As soon as the judge takes his place, I believe the defendant is in the courtroom. | ||
| As soon as the judge takes his place on the bench, we're going to go live for the reading. | ||
| You know, I get a better introduction when I'm not in studio. | ||
| So I'm going to just keep doing Skypes in the afternoon from now on. | ||
| Look, I want to just quickly come in on this Maxine Waters and Joe Biden intervention. | ||
| And I have a theory about this. | ||
| The theory is, how do you get this whole debacle to stretch out, and how do you keep this whole furore going? | ||
| You give the grounds for a mistrial. | ||
| You give the grounds for an appeal. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Let's go back. | |
| I want the shot. | ||
| Let's go back, Denver. | ||
| Let's go back. | ||
| We've got Tracy. | ||
| Okay, let's go to Tracy Anthony. | ||
| She's the Real America Voice correspondent. | ||
| They are live from outside the courthouse in Minneapolis. | ||
| Tracy, give us a sense of what's going on there right now, right prior for the judge walking out. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, you know, everyone just waiting for the verdict. | |
| Behind me you can see the crowd. | ||
| They've been chanting, no justice, no peace. | ||
| Different chants say his name, George Floyd, so you can maybe hear it now. | ||
| More and more people continue to gather out front here. | ||
| Anyway, we can get back to that Herb shot. | ||
| Okay, so we're going to go to the courthouse, Tracy, as soon as the judge walks out there for the verdict. | ||
| Let me ask you, what is the crowd anticipating? | ||
| Is there any anticipation? | ||
| Is there anything that they're thinking about? | ||
| If he's found guilty of the maximum charges here, do you think that'll satisfy him? | ||
| Given that Maxine Walters and the President have already weighed in today about the guilt of the defendant. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You know, I think most people that are out here right now and part of this collaborative chant are expecting a guilty verdict. | |
| They've made comments of even after the verdict, no matter what it is, that they need to keep moving forward and keep moving their message forward. | ||
| So I think that's what most people that are gathering here this evening are anticipating the verdict to be as guilty. | ||
| And I think that's what this crowd is hoping for. | ||
| Obviously, I'm not quite sure if we'll still remain peaceful no matter what it is, but we're hoping for it for our city and for the community. | ||
| Tracy, you're a native of Minneapolis, correct? | ||
| What is the rest of the city hunkered down and what's the size of this crowd now as you see it all the way downtown? | ||
| How big? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, there's probably 200, 250 people here and it's been growing over the last half hour. | |
| Once we did find out there was a verdict, we were just a few blocks from the courthouse and it took us quite some time to get down here. | ||
| So, the streets were definitely flooded with traffic, people trying to get to certain places or to get out of town. | ||
| But it was definitely a different mood once we found out that the verdict was coming than it was this morning or even the last few days. | ||
| So, kind of a sense of urgency on the city streets. | ||
| Tracy, Raheem Kassam here. | ||
| I've just got a question about the interventions from Maxine Waters and President Biden. | ||
| Has anybody out there in the crowds, have you heard them talking about this? | ||
| Is there any consternation about the interventions that we've heard over the past 72 hours? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Bringing that up, even in the crowds that have been talking, I haven't heard her name brought up once and really her messaging was really contradicting what our officials here have been saying. | |
| You know, the community does want peace. | ||
| We don't want to burn our city again. | ||
| So that has been somewhat refreshing not to hear that that has weighed a lot on this crowd and their next steps. | ||
| Do you have any sense of judges here? | ||
| We're going to cut to the courthouse right now for the reading of the verdict. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you, Jason. | |
| All rise for the jury. | ||
| The court is adjourned. | ||
| habit All right, please be seated Thank you. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Members of the jury, I understand you have a verdict. | ||
| Members of the jury, I will now read the verdicts as they will appear in the permanent records of the 4th Judicial District. | ||
| So, I'm going to go ahead and get started. | ||
| State of Minnesota, County of Hennepin. | ||
| District Court, 4th Judicial District. | ||
| State of Minnesota Plaintiff vs. Derek Michael Chauvin Defendant. | ||
| Verdict, Count 1. | ||
| Court File Number 27, CR 20-12646. | ||
| We the jury in the above entitled matter as to count one unintentional second-degree murder while committing a felony find the defendant guilty. | ||
| This verdict agreed to this 20th day of April 2021 at 1 44 p.m. | ||
| 2021 at 1 44 PM. Signed juror four person juror number 19. | ||
| Same caption. | ||
| Verdict count two. | ||
| We the jury in the above entitled matter as to count two third degree murder perpetrating an eminently dangerous act find the defendant guilty. | ||
| This verdict agreed to this 20th day of April 2021 at 1 45 p.m. | ||
| 2021 at 1 45 PM signed by j Same caption, verdict count three. | ||
| We the jury in the above entitled matter as to count three, second degree manslaughter, culpable negligence, creating an unreasonable risk, find the defendant guilty. | ||
| This verdict agreed to this 20th day of April 2021 at 1 45 p.m. | ||
| Jury four person zero one nine. | ||
| Members of the jury, I'm now going to ask you individually if these are your true and correct verdicts. | ||
| Please respond yes or no. | ||
| Jury number two, are these your true and correct verdicts? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Juror number 9, are these your true and correct verdicts? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Juror number 19, are these your true and correct verdicts? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Juror number 27, are these your true and correct verdicts? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Juror number 44, are these your true and correct verdicts? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Juror number 52, are these your true and correct verdicts? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Juror number 55, are these your true and correct verdicts? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Juror number 79, are these your true and correct verdicts? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Jury number 85, are these your true and correct verdicts? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Jury number 89, are these your true and correct verdicts? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Jury number 91, are these your true and correct verdicts? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Jury number 92, are these your true and correct verdicts? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Are these your verdicts so say you once, so say you all? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Members of the jury, I find that the verdicts as read reflect the will of the jury and will be filed accordingly. | ||
| I have to thank you on behalf of the people of the state of Minnesota for not only jury service, but heavy duty jury service. | ||
| What I'm going to ask you to do now is to follow the deputy back into your usual room and I will join you in a few minutes to answer questions and to advise you further. | ||
| So I'll rise for the jury. | ||
| All right, be seated. | ||
| I'm going to go. | ||
| With the guilty verdicts returned, we're going to have Blakely, you may file a written argument as to Blakely factors within one week. | ||
| the corral issue findings on the Blakely factors, the factual findings. | ||
| One week after that, we'll order a PSI immediately, returnable in four weeks. | ||
| And we will also have a briefing on, after you get the PSI, six weeks from now and then eight weeks from now we will have sentencing. We'll get you the exact dates in a scheduling order. | ||
| Is there a motion on behalf of the state? | ||
| Your Honor, the state would move to have the court revoke the defendant's bail and remand him into custody pending sentencing. | ||
| Bail is revoked, bond is discharged, and the defendant is remanded to the custody of the Hennepin County Sheriff. | ||
| Anything further? | ||
| All right. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Guilty on all charges, Raheem Kassam. | ||
| That appears to be the case, and as I said before, we heard the verdicts from the jurors there. | ||
| It appears that, you know, to me, that Joe Biden and Maxine Waters have intentionally intervened in this to drag this out. | ||
| Let's hang over and get to all that in a second. | ||
| I want to go to Tracy. | ||
| Can we go to Tracy Anthony out in front of the courthouse if Denver can help hook us up with that before we bring in Boris Epstein. | ||
| Okay, we're going to stand by for a second. | ||
| You just heard guilty on all charges. | ||
| Ready to go? | ||
| Let's hit it. | ||
| So Tracy, give us the reaction of the crowd outside. | ||
|
unidentified
|
The crowd out here is definitely celebrating. | |
| I think this was the outcome that they were anticipating and hoping for. | ||
| Shouting chants of excitement and happiness here out front. | ||
| So this is exactly what they wanted, the guilty on all three counts. | ||
| And hopefully it will remain peaceful around the city. | ||
| Before it was no justice, no peace. | ||
| Can you pick up what's the chance right now? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I haven't been able to pick up exactly what they're chanting. | |
| Okay. | ||
| They're saying that this is their victory. | ||
| Okay, perfect. | ||
| I'll tell you what. | ||
| You stay there. | ||
| We're going to go to Boris and to Bernie Kerik. | ||
| We'll come back to you when we get some additional reporting, okay? | ||
| Tracy Anthony, Real America's Voice correspondent outside. | ||
| And by the way, it's a state courthouse, not a federal courthouse, state courthouse in downtown Minneapolis. | ||
| Let's bring in now Boris Epstein and Bernie Kerik. | ||
| I want to go to Boris first and then Rahim. | ||
| Boris, what's your take on this? | ||
| Steve, good to be with you. | ||
| Rahim, great to be with you and an honor to be on the same program as Bernie Kerik, an American hero, and of course, Mayor Giuliani. | ||
| America's Mayor and American Hero as well. | ||
| Here's my take. | ||
| Legally, you know, this is a debatable case. | ||
| Murder 2 is a charge where somebody dies, somebody's killed by someone who's committing a felony. | ||
| If you watch the video, the 9 minute, the approximate 9 minute video, it is tough to explain. | ||
| It is tough to explain why Derek Chauvin was on George Floyd's neck. | ||
| for nine minutes and say that it is not a felony and then you go to murder three than you go to a mass order to if anything while the while of the different council read i actually thought that if they give him guilty on mortar to and murder three the day would go not guilty on manslaughter but they've all they've folded them all and because is a little actually of a uh... there's a little bit of a contradiction i think on the manslaughter charge versus the murder to charge but that's inside baseball for us lawyers there | ||
| because that you know one one says recklessness and and one actually has some level of some level of intent and recklessness in terms of manslaughter intent in terms of murder to But here's the big picture. | ||
| The big picture is because of that literally unacceptable, ludicrous, un-American conduct from Maxine Waters, and I'm not going to call her Congresswoman because she doesn't deserve to be in Congress, because of her actions over the weekend, typical Democrat stupidity from maxine waters what you're going to likely see now what you're going to see is an appeal because the judge already spoke about an appeal you're going to see appeal in this case and i'm not sure | ||
| the higher counts murder two murder three hold up So, that is what to watch for now. | ||
| This case is going to drag out. | ||
| Now, do I think Maxine Waters did it on purpose? | ||
| Honestly, I'm not going to give her that much credit. | ||
| I think she went in there just like when she said, oh, you've got to confront Republicans anywhere and everywhere. | ||
| She's not particularly thinking through what she's saying, but the effect of what she did is that this is going to drag out. | ||
| And again, I'm not sure, I'm not confident that the Murder 2 and Murder 3 charges hold up on appeal. | ||
| Boris, hang on right there, we're going to give Bernie a second, but Raheem, I know you're saying this was planned, they thought it through, drag it out. | ||
| For sure, the same way as her original comments that Boris just referred to were totally planned. | ||
| They were designed to create discomfort at the least and oppression of Republicans at the worst. | ||
| And these comments... Joe Biden did it himself today as well, but I will just say this before we go to break. | ||
| I will just ask this question to everybody out there. | ||
| Does anybody believe, Boris' fine analysis aside, does anybody believe that the merits of the case were considered by the jury? | ||
| Or were they just frightened of the riots that would have ensued and the doxxing that they endured by the media in the last week? | ||
| Okay, we're gonna take a short commercial break. | ||
| Bernie Carrick, Boris Epstein, Raheem Kassam, you're in the War Room in a moment. | ||
|
unidentified
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We will fight till they're all gone. | |
| We rejoice when there's no more. | ||
| Let's take down the city. | ||
|
unidentified
|
War Room, Pandemic, with Stephen K. Bannon. | |
| The epidemic is a demon, and we cannot let this demon hide. | ||
| War Room, Pandemic. | ||
| Here's your host, Stephen K. Bannon. | ||
| OK, here you have a live shot of downtown Minneapolis I want to thank the Real America's Voice team. | ||
| We have Tracy Anthony and a whole team down there, and as soon as she has something to report, we'll go back to her. | ||
| I want to keep that shot up. | ||
| I'm going to bring in Bernie Carrick, former police commissioner of New York City. | ||
| Bernie, give us your assessment of what you've heard so far, being that you were a police commissioner in New York City for many years? | ||
| Well listen, I think Boris has a really good point. | ||
| How do you have intent in one charge and non-intent in another and find both guilty? | ||
| I think that's questionable and it's going to be something that has to be looked at later on down the line. | ||
| Well, listen, I don't think any of it made any difference. | ||
| I think there's three factors. | ||
| One, I think the video, you know, put the jurors in a trance, basically. | ||
| They witnessed it, they saw it, they heard about it over and over and over. | ||
| I think the threat of burning down the city by everybody under the sun, I think that weighed on their minds. | ||
| And I think, you know, Maxine Waters and her stupidity, and her real, and this is what I think, and Boris would understand this probably better than most, I think this was a clear attempt on her behalf to influence the jury pool. | ||
| You know, just in case they weren't going in that direction, I'm going to make sure that they do. | ||
| Here's what I want, and if they don't do what I want, there's going to be confrontations in the streets. | ||
| I think they were already afraid, based on the history of what's happened in that city. | ||
| Before I go back to Boris, I don't know how closely you watch this, but given that police officers, since you were the commissioner, you know, the senior obviously brass report to you, but they oversaw all the police training and the police behavior. | ||
| What was your sense of this as a police, a former police commissioner? | ||
| Was it pretty cut and dry to you? | ||
| Well, listen, I said this early on. | ||
| I didn't see a need for the restraint for as long as it was, and at some point, when Floyd stopped talking, at some point, don't you look down? | ||
| Don't you assess the situation? | ||
| Don't you figure out what happened? | ||
| You know, during the closing arguments, The defense, the defense, Chauvin's attorney said, you know, keep in mind as long as he's breathe, as long as he's talking, he's breathing. | ||
| Well, yeah, right. | ||
| And at some point, he stopped talking. | ||
| And when he stopped talking, you know, Chauvin didn't look down. | ||
| Chauvin didn't assess the situation. | ||
| I just, and this was my personal opinion, and I hate to speculate in these things, but my personal opinion is when he stopped talking, and Chauvin was still on top of him, still restraining him, I thought that was a big problem. | ||
| Last thing, just about the defense itself. | ||
| I think it only took a day, correct? | ||
| Or a day and a half. | ||
| Do you think the defense went into enough detail on this? | ||
| Do you think they could have brought other witnesses? | ||
| The witness they brought up there got kind of banged up. | ||
| Do you think they could have extended this and brought in more witnesses? | ||
| Look, I think they did the best they could, given the circumstances. | ||
| And keep in mind, I personally don't think it would have made any difference. | ||
| I think that video killed them. | ||
| And that video, I think it was you or somebody else told me, I think up to an hour they played that for the jury in a couple of different segments during the deliberations, correct? | ||
| During when the prosecution was putting the case. | ||
| And I think the defense actually played it also a couple of times, correct? | ||
| Played some of it as well, yeah. | ||
| I want to go back to Boris. | ||
| Boris, I want your assessment of what Rahim had to say about this whole aspect of not just an appeal, but that Maxine Waters, just for breaking news, I think it was 216 to 210, the censure of her got voted down today in the House, 216 to 210. | ||
| A lot closer than I thought it was going to be, actually. | ||
| So, Boris, what's your assessment of Maxine Waters and really the president and the governor kind of sticking their nose in this? | ||
| And the mayor, Jacob Frye, one of the worst mayors in the history of America, along with Bill de Blasio and Vice President Kamala Harris today saying that no matter what the verdict is that wounds will not be healed, Here's what I'm saying. | ||
| I just am not in agreement that Maxine Waters is smart enough to think that I'm going to say this, then I'm going to influence the jury pool, which I do agree with Bernie on, with Commissioner Carrick on. | ||
| I don't think she's smart enough to say, well, that is going to cause a mistrial, which will drag this out. | ||
| I think she was bluntly trying to influence the jury pool, which actually gets us to a bigger question here. | ||
| Again, I am not convinced that these charges We're wrongly found to have been, for Chauvin, to have been guilty on. | ||
| I think there likely was enough evidence on Murder 2 and on Murder 3. | ||
| I think they threw in Manslaughter 2, likely because of a potential appeal. | ||
| Because, again, there's a disconnect there between a Manslaughter 2, where you're supposed to have no intendance and recklessness, and a Murder 3, where you're supposed to have some intent to commit a felony, and a person dies in the commission of that felony. | ||
| So, to me, there's an incongruence there. | ||
| But, | ||
| The bigger issue is, as soon as Chauvin's petition to remove this trial from Hennepin County, from Minneapolis, failed, any chance of an acquittal, any chance of really a fair trial likely failed with that as well, because this jury pool, there's just no way to assume that the jury in 2021 isn't on social media, doesn't watch some sort of TV, doesn't listen to the radio, isn't plugged into the real world, and then are not somewhat afraid for their own | ||
| security and for that of their families because we've seen people doxxed. So as soon as this trial was set to be held right there, right there in Hennepin County in Minneapolis, I think a fully fair trial went out the window. | ||
| Now again, I'm not saying that the charges and the verdict—I know people will disagree with me—I'm not saying the verdict is wrong. | ||
| I'm not. | ||
| I think the jury deliberated, they looked at the prosecution, the defense, and then the defense did a bad job. | ||
| Shouldn't have played the video. | ||
| You never do that as defense attorneys. | ||
| Why invite the worst facts? | ||
| The worst evidence the prosecution has, why remind the jury of it? | ||
| No reason whatsoever. | ||
| So I think in sum total, the jury here likely did do the right thing, at least on Murder 2 and potentially Murder 3. | ||
| Manslaughter 2, like I said, I think that goes in the face of Murder 2 and Murder 3. | ||
| But, if we wanted a complete, crystal clear trial here, that was not impacted by Maxine Waters and President Biden. | ||
| Kamala Harris and Jacob Frye. | ||
| They should have removed this trial outside of Minneapolis, because people there in that jury poll lived what happened last summer, and they don't want it to happen again, and they sure don't want their families to be threatened. | ||
| So I think that likely was a mistake, and you're going to get a lot of criticism of these verdicts because of where it was held. | ||
| But even beyond that, you are overwhelmingly likely going to get an appeal, And I think on that appeal, 50-50, if the Murder 2, Murder 3 charges stick, Manslaughter 2 likely does. | ||
| Look, Boris, just to take the first point about Maxine Waters, you know, Maxine Waters doesn't need to be intelligent enough to cook up a scheme. | ||
| You know who is intelligent enough to cook up a scheme? | ||
| Anyone around Maxine Waters who tells her, hey, show up, let's stick our oars in, etc, etc. | ||
| And I wouldn't necessarily have even jumped to that That thought process, had it not been for the interventions from the Oval Office today, that's what really got me thinking, hey, somebody there is just winding things up a little bit, and they're probably winding it up because they're looking for a way to fuel anger on both sides, quite frankly. | ||
| as we as we all know uh... there is a there is a large elite class of people uh... in this country whose whose sole purpose that they believe that their sole purpose is to create discord because the discord amongst the population of the you know it's it's means that people are paying attention to the crimes of the elite that are taking place at the very same time or is it is a whole or both of us both the white house and maxine waters could have been try to put pressure on the jury which actually think about it how ludicrous that is the | ||
| thought that the white house the president of the united states is putting pressure on a jury in a state criminal does not a federal trial and a state criminal trial that's what we call we've come to all levels of separation of The federalism, separation of branches of powers, they're out the window when it comes to woke nature. | ||
| But that's where we live. | ||
| Let's just also remind people that national news organizations were publishing full biographies of the jurors. | ||
| Like, give an example. | ||
| So that they would be able to be tracked down. | ||
| I believe NPR did it today. | ||
| So that they would be able to be identified in the communities and tracked down. | ||
| Let's pull that, David. | ||
| I've got it here. | ||
| So when Rahim pulls up, this is not my line of country, Bernie, but I got to ask you, for the jury to come back this quickly, you've done this a lot and overseen a lot of these or been involved in a lot of these. | ||
| For the jury to come back that quickly, is that, you think, a hit on the defense team of actually not doing a better job so that the jury had longer to deliberate? | ||
| How long were they out for, 24 hours? | ||
| Coming back so quickly? | ||
| The defense could be their minds were made up. | ||
| Look, the bottom line is they went out, less than 24 hours they're back, and they didn't ask a question. | ||
| Not one. | ||
| Not on any of the accounts. | ||
| They didn't send out any questions, to my knowledge, and I think I'm right. | ||
| No questions. | ||
| In and out. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| within 24 hours. And by the way, interesting, no jury instructions either that would get to the issues that Boris is talking about. So you find that unusual, Bernie? | ||
| Yeah, yeah. Which is why I think their mind was made up. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay, I think the judge did a great job here. | |
| Just a correction on this. Boris, give me one sec to correct something on this real quick. | ||
| It wasn't NPR, it was the Star Tribune, Mike Lindell's friends, the Star Tribune. | ||
| The paper of many a blessing. | ||
| and and they did not 12 full bios I mean I can read you one, but I don't want to be guilty of doxxing here. | ||
| With names? | ||
| No, biographies. | ||
| It gives them all the details of their life without naming their names. | ||
| Right? | ||
| Like their professions, which part of town, what they posted previously. | ||
| One more thing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
By the way, the fact that I was in this interview, I think it was USA Today also. | |
| That's all over the country. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| They added unlimited access to the article so that it wasn't behind a paywall. | ||
| Okay, um, I tell you what, Boris, Rudy, I mean, Boris, uh, Bernie, hang on over the break. | ||
| We're gonna get in Rudy also from Minneapolis. | ||
| War Room next. | ||
|
unidentified
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Spread the word all through Hong Kong. | |
| We will fight till they're all gone. | ||
| We rejoice when there's no more. | ||
| Let's take down the CCP. | ||
| War Room. | ||
| Pandemic. | ||
| With Stephen K. Bannon. | ||
| The epidemic is a demon and we cannot let this demon hide. | ||
| War Room. | ||
| Pandemic. | ||
| Here's your host, Stephen K. Bannon. | ||
| Okay, welcome back to the War Room. | ||
| They just had the verdict out in Minneapolis. | ||
| I want to go to Boris Epstein. | ||
| So, Boris, give us your assessment, and particularly of the Minnesota-Minneapolis Star-Tribune today, publishing the biographies, absent names, of the 12 jurors. | ||
| The Star-Tribune, as well as NPR, publishing biographies. | ||
| So, nationwide outlets publishing biographies. | ||
| Sounds names, but in this day and age, you would take, you know, somebody who's Savvy on the computer, what, T-minus 30 seconds to find out. | ||
| I think it's absolutely despicable, and I think it goes to exactly what we talked about in the last segment. | ||
| This jury pool was intimidated, it was poisoned, and it was scared. | ||
| And again, this is not me saying that Murder 2 and Murder 3 are not sensible convictions here. | ||
| Again, I believe that there's a contradiction between Murder 2 and Manslaughter 2. | ||
| Can't have no intent and some intent, those two. | ||
| Clash. | ||
| But I'm not saying the verdicts are wrong, but I am saying there's plenty of grounds for appeal here. | ||
| Actions by the media, and then actions by Maxine Waters, actions by the White House, actions by Minnesota, Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frye. | ||
| There's plenty of grounds for an appeal here. | ||
| And as it goes through that appeal, you're going to then come out of that issue where you have jurors who are scared for their well-being, scared for their families, and intimidated. | ||
| And it'll be very interesting to see how these convictions hold up on appeal. | ||
| It'll also be interesting to see whether Chauvin keeps the same defense team, because if you look at what they did here in this trial, again, no, I'm not passing judgment on the actual verdict, but if the defense team could have been a little stronger, they likely could have gotten this down to just demand slaughter, and I believe it was a big mistake to show the video over and over again, and again, have it be shown by the defense. | ||
| It was good for the prosecution to do it, the defense. | ||
| Made no sense. | ||
| So I think that's what you're concentrating on in terms of appeal. | ||
| Was there enough interference in the jury pool? | ||
| Was the defense weak? | ||
| And does Chauvin have a chance, when it's no longer a jury trial, when you have justices sitting up there reviewing the court case? | ||
| Reviewing the documents, reviewing the hearing, are they going to keep all three charges? | ||
| I think it's highly unlikely, actually. | ||
| I put, you know, I was 55, now reviewing everything, 75-25, at least one of the charges gets thrown out on appeal, if not a full mistrial, as the judge here actually already alluded to, and then we could be doing this all over again. | ||
| Boris, how do people get to your, real quickly, and we gotta be quick, I got Rudy, we're about to bring Rudy on. | ||
| What do you mean if they could have been stronger? | ||
| What could the defense have done in your mind that would have been stronger? | ||
| 30 seconds. | ||
| Beyond a reasonable doubt is always the key in these trials. | ||
| So what they should have been concentrating on is over and over again, beyond a reasonable doubt. | ||
| Talk about Paul's graph, the theory of causation. | ||
| Were the actions of Chauvin the cause of death? | ||
| Go through that time and time and time again, and then you're likely left with that manslaughter too, which is recklessness. | ||
| There's no way to defend it. | ||
| In terms of the Murder 2 and Murder 3, they could have been, again, stronger on causation, stronger on beyond a reasonable doubt. | ||
| Is it beyond a reasonable doubt that Derek Chauvin, either in Murder 2, while committing a felony, caused his death, or while potentially committing And maybe the defense itself was impacted by all the pressure brought to bear by Democrats, Maxine Waters, elected officials, BLM and Antifa. | ||
| So all of that is going to go into that pool of decision-making that is the appeals process for a criminal case. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| We've got some breaking news, Rahim. | ||
| We just got a notification up on CNN that President Biden is due to speak shortly. | ||
| Shortly. | ||
| Boris, what is your social media? | ||
| We've got to balance. | ||
| What's your social media for the audience? | ||
| I wonder if they'll tell Biden what day it is. | ||
| At BorisEP on Twitter, Boris underscore Epstein, Boris underscore EPSHTEYN on Instagram. | ||
| At BorisEP on Twitter, Boris underscore Epstein on Instagram. | ||
| God bless. | ||
| Stay strong. | ||
| Great job, Boris. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| Okay, we're gonna go to America's Mayor Rudy Giuliani before and Rahim will give me a heads up. | ||
| I know Rahim wants to jump in here and get back to Rahim in a second. | ||
| And Joe Biden is going to come on. | ||
| Mayor Giuliani, do we have Rudy? | ||
| Mayor Giuliani now joins us. | ||
| Mayor, give us your assessment of how you think this was all handled in Minneapolis and your assessment of the verdict. | ||
| Well, I tell you, as a trial, I mean, forget all the outside influences, you can't. | ||
| It's a defensible verdict. | ||
| Look, this was a strange case because the jury had the key evidence they could evaluate themselves, which is the videotape. | ||
| So they're going to draw their own conclusions based on analyzing that tape. | ||
| And one of the worst problems that Chauvin had was the sort of impassive look he had on his face while he was being told that he was possibly killing him. | ||
| So I saw it as a very difficult case. | ||
| A prosecutor could have even thought about murder once, although that would have been probably beyond what you could sustain. | ||
| And also, if you didn't get it, you would create a riot. | ||
| So I think it was very sensible. | ||
| They got it down to murder too. | ||
| His only hope on appeal is not going to be lack of evidence. | ||
| There was enough evidence for the jury to reasonably conclude that he committed what they call an unintentional murder. | ||
| But by the time he was told the second or third time that he was possibly killing the man, He had formed the intent to go ahead and do what he was doing. | ||
| So, I mean, I could have defended him, and I think the defense lawyer did a pretty good job, but I had no doubt I could convict him. | ||
| Now, you got the outside influences, and there, I think, we had a trial that was completely subverted by the media, by Maxine Waters, by numerous other public officials. | ||
| There's no way the jury wasn't hearing that and paying attention to it. | ||
| Biggest fiction in the world is that a jury doesn't read the newspapers and listen to the television. | ||
| I've talked to enough jurors to know that, you know, you've got to be living in an ivory tower to believe that. | ||
| I want to go back to before we talk about the outside influences and President Biden and everything like that. | ||
| Raheem, jump in here. | ||
| We've got news. | ||
| I want to talk about the case. | ||
| Were you surprised that being a former prosecutor that the defense, I think, put their whole trial, their whole case on essentially in a day? | ||
| To make the case that he died of other causes, they needed expert witnesses. | ||
| They needed to support that with numerous, numerous experts who would say that the cause of death was his underlying heart condition, the other problems that he had, that that was the main reason that he died. | ||
| They put in very little evidence to support that. | ||
| And then there was very powerful evidence that putting the knee on the neck for nine minutes caused his death. | ||
| So, you know, one day of a witness isn't going to rebut the very strong case the prosecution made. | ||
| So if you really were, if that really was going to be your defense, then you had to support it with, you know, really very credible expert witnesses who I think were available. | ||
| I mean, there is a whole other side to the case. | ||
| It just wasn't presented to the jury in a powerful enough way. | ||
| And I'm not sure if it was, it would have been any different, but at least It would have been more balanced. | ||
| Did that surprise you that they wrapped up the defense so quickly? | ||
| Yeah, it did. | ||
| It did, particularly because the defense needed a case here. | ||
| When you're defending somebody, you've got to evaluate the prosecution's case. | ||
| If you believe you can take the prosecution's case apart on reasonable doubt, then you don't have to put in a defense. | ||
| But they couldn't. | ||
| They would be unrealistic to think that the prosecution didn't have a powerful case. | ||
| They did. | ||
| It was a very strong case. | ||
| The two prosecutors were very good. | ||
| They presented it well. | ||
| They didn't overdo it. | ||
| And so therefore, you had to rebut that. | ||
| You had to give the jury very solid reasons to believe that at least there's a reasonable doubt that what they saw in front of their own eyes wasn't the reason why the man died. | ||
| I don't think people realize how powerful that tape was. | ||
| First time I saw it, I looked at the expression on his face. | ||
| I said, this guy's going to be a tough guy to defend. | ||
| Rudy, you've done this basically your whole life. | ||
| Have you ever seen a time when a hometown newspaper of the size and the reputation of the Minnesota Star Tribune published the biographies of the jurors in a case that's this explosive? | ||
| Didn't put their names on, but had... Outrageous! | ||
|
unidentified
|
Absolutely outrageous. | |
| I can't believe that any responsible journalist would do that unless you want to put the life of the juror in jeopardy, even from some crazy nut, much less, you know, knowing the pressures on them. | ||
| The things that happened extraneous to the trial give him a chance on appeal. | ||
| And the judge's comment is extraordinary. | ||
| I rarely have ever heard a judge actually note possible reversible error in his own trial. | ||
| What the judge said yesterday, I think I can recall one or two instances like that, but it's very, very rare and ends up being a very powerful argument on appeal. | ||
| Although you can end up with appellate judges, maybe with the same worries that the jurors and other justices have. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Hopefully they can put that aside. | ||
| Let me ask you this, because this is, like I said, not my line of country, but this judge seemed to keep a pretty tight rein on this. | ||
| Seemed to be pretty even-handed. | ||
| What would lead a judge to do something that extraordinary, where actually, you know, walk through the reversible era that Maxine Waters is intruding into this? | ||
| What would drive a guy like that, seemed like pretty even-handed, not a drama queen, to do that? | ||
| A sense of fairness. | ||
| A sense that our rule of law is in jeopardy. | ||
| He even said that. | ||
| He said it showed total disrespect for our rule of law. | ||
| I mean, this is a woman who did the same thing during the Rodney King case. | ||
| She's been doing it for 25, 30 years. | ||
| And finally, some responsible person has taken her to task for it. | ||
| And that's a judge. | ||
| I mean, I have enormous respect for the judge. | ||
| That's a very difficult thing to do. | ||
| She is the second most senior member of Congress and people bow before her. | ||
| She's gotten away with They've gotten away with all kinds of things in the past. | ||
| Setting up a whole situation of tremendous harassment for the people in the Trump administration and people who supported Trump. | ||
| Interfering in the Rodney King thing and basically condoning the riots. | ||
| Interfering in other trials. | ||
| I mean, this is a woman with a horrible, horrible career. | ||
| And I think the judge feels very protective of this trial. | ||
| This man worked very hard to give a fair trial on a very difficult circumstance. | ||
| And here she comes in and bombs the gates. | ||
| It's like all of a sudden an atomic bomb is thrown on your gate by this woman from fallout land who travels a thousand miles just to incite. | ||
| He also had to realize how dangerous what he said was. | ||
| Rudy, real quickly, we got to bounce, but can you go to the two or three, we got about a minute, two or three biggest areas of appeal in this case, in your belief? | ||
| The biggest area of appeal will be the outside influence on the jury, and that it would be impossible for the jury to render a fair verdict in this case. | ||
| And I mean, Maxine Waters puts the sort of topping on the cake, but I mean, you had that argument before. | ||
| And I think that's why the judge himself was probably evaluating during the case the outside influences. | ||
| And I don't want to speak for him because I don't know, but I bet he regrets not having put the jury in seclusion before, you know, right from the very beginning. | ||
| That would have been the right thing to do. | ||
| Rudy, when's the next podcast up and how do people get to the podcast? | ||
| My next podcast is going to be tomorrow and it's going to be about Maxine Waters. | ||
| And about what a menace she's been to the rule of law, and how she's ripped it apart, and how the Democrats now basically all support her. | ||
| We have a basically one party justice system now. | ||
| We no longer have equal justice under the law. | ||
| If she's not held to account for this, we might as well just forget about the notion that there's equal justice under the law. | ||
| We gotta go. | ||
| The podcast will be up at 5 o'clock, 6 o'clock tomorrow night? | ||
| Yes, sir. | ||
| Rudy's Common Sense dot com. | ||
| We'll push it. | ||
| Rudy's Common Sense dot com. | ||
| Thank you, Mayor. | ||
|
unidentified
|
War Room. | |
| Pandemic. | ||
| With Stephen K. Bannon. | ||
| The epidemic is a demon, and we cannot let this demon hide. | ||
| War Room. | ||
| Pandemic. | ||
| Here's your host, Stephen K. Bannon. | ||
| Okay, you're back in the war room. | ||
| The verdict just got read in the case at Minneapolis. | ||
| Rahim? | ||
| So, Speaker Pelosi has just given a statement where she bizarrely thanked George Floyd for sacrificing his life for a greater cause of justice. | ||
| She did what? | ||
| That is absolutely correct. | ||
| I just listened to the audio in the break and I'm just checking it. | ||
| NBC News reporting it. | ||
| Speaker Pelosi said, thank you George Floyd for sacrificing your life for justice. | ||
| One thing I've done, and I've done it a couple of times now, is how George Floyd is the elite in this country, right? | ||
| That George Floyd had COVID and CCP virus in him. | ||
| He had the fentanyl in him from China, the CCP virus from the CCP. | ||
| You know, all the great jobs have been shipped overseas. | ||
| The counterfeit money, I think, is either cartel or even back to, you know, the FBI saying how the CCP is always trying to get counterfeit money into the United States, even the source of the $20 bill. | ||
| So the elites of this country, you know, you can say what you want, but the elites have got it with the fentanyl. | ||
| The COVID, he had, he was sick with COVID, he had the fentanyl in the system, I guess the meth, the cartels meth, he had, you know, all the great manufacturing jobs all gone, right? | ||
| Instead of George Floyd being up there at his summer house, having had 20 or 25 years of a great job, that's all gone. | ||
| Nobody talks about the underlying economic pressures and conditions, or that, that is for Speaker Pelosi, it seems a little out of, it seems like a little out there to me. | ||
| A little out there. | ||
| I mean, it's as curious as her, you know, good morning, Sunday morning, weirdo behaviour on television. | ||
| Let me ask you this. | ||
| Now that we've got this out of the way, I guess we're going to be immediately pivoting... I don't think it's out of the way. | ||
| Well, let's just say that there's a verdict in the thing. | ||
| Now we'll be doing the same for Ashley Babbitt, right? | ||
| We want to get to the bottom of who executed Ashley Babbitt on the grounds of the Capitol? | ||
| Is that what's going to happen? | ||
| Well, the only way that will happen, if National Pulse and Darren Beattie and the guys at Revolver do the great job you've been doing to make sure that Officer Sicknick that the same revelations come up, that we understand. | ||
| Officer Sitnik asked his family not to politicize his death. | ||
| I think you guys have gone a long way to depoliticize this. | ||
| The only way I think that Babbitt gets justice is if you guys continue to press on your investigations. | ||
| Derek Chauvin knelt on George Floyd for nine minutes. | ||
| 23 seconds. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| And we had what we had today. | ||
| Somebody who is still unbeknownst to the nation aimed his gun at the face of Ashley Babbitt and pulled the trigger. | ||
| DOJ said they did an investigation. | ||
| There was nothing to see there. | ||
| I'm sure DOJ is being completely forthright. | ||
| Let's go to former CIA agent operative Sam Faddis of AND Magazine. | ||
| Sam, you just wrote a great piece, just came up, had to have it. | ||
| Walk us through your piece today about insurrection versus protestor. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Well, I mean, to echo what you just said, nothing's over. | ||
| I mean, the bottom line here is, you know, what we're seeing is not protests. | ||
| It's not the goal of this is not reform. | ||
| I'm not to say that there aren't people out in the street who want that. | ||
| But the folks who have been driving the train on this for pretty much a year want insurrection. | ||
|
unidentified
|
They want a Marxist revolution. | |
| They want to overthrow the existing system. | ||
| It's not fantasy, it's not conjecture. | ||
| They say it all the time. | ||
| Sam, hang on, hang on, hang on. | ||
| I thought insurrection were all the guys on January 6th. | ||
| That's what I thought. | ||
| Every day I hear insurrectionists, treason, you know, not patriotic, don't love their country. | ||
| So what is it? | ||
| Who's the insurrectionists here? | ||
| The people from June of last year? | ||
| Out on the street on January 6th? | ||
|
unidentified
|
We're arresting people for trespass at the Capitol at most. | |
| And meanwhile, we have an ongoing Marxist revolution. | ||
| I mean, there's a Freedom Road Socialist Organization, Liberation Road, Black Lives Matter, Antifa, the Communist Party of the United States have been at this now for months and prepping for it for years. | ||
| And this George Floyd thing is pretext for them. | ||
| They're not going to stop at all. | ||
| In fact, they announced in advance of this, They're holding rallies tonight, they said expressly, regardless of the verdict, well before the verdict was announced. | ||
| Nothing pauses. | ||
| Sam, you've got Keith Ellison now in his 40th minute of his speech, immediately after the verdict. | ||
| This would be the same Keith Ellison, remember, that held up the Antifa handbook, which, as far as I'm concerned, I know you as well, should be designated a domestic terror organisation. | ||
| You had the Chief Magistrate of the United States, that would be the President of the United States, leaning on the jury in advance of the verdict today, saying what he would like to happen in that. | ||
| You know, of everything you've seen, of everything you've known, of all the places you've been to, and all of the regimes you've witnessed, does this or does this not remind you of Banana Republic? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, 100%. | |
| And as a guy who was a trial lawyer before he was a spy, I'd be drafting the appellate documents for the influence on the jury right now. | ||
| But here's the thing with Biden and company, you know, they think they can kind of ride this wave. | ||
| They think they can use this for their political purposes and it'll be fine. | ||
| What they don't understand is that these guys hate Joe Biden basically as much as they hate Donald Trump. | ||
| Read their literature. | ||
| They consider them the equivalent. | ||
| They don't want Joe Biden in the White House. | ||
| They don't want to have a Republic anymore. | ||
| And they're very clear about that. | ||
| Let's go back. | ||
| I wonder, for your trial lawyer, real quick, I got about a minute. | ||
| Grounds for appeals, where the two or three jump out at you? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, a hundred percent. | |
| There's no way to begin with. | ||
| They should have tried this case in Minneapolis, right? | ||
| Should have been moved somewhere else. | ||
| So on those grounds, new trial, very likely down the road. | ||
| You think because they didn't act in time, what about you had to have a jury of his peers? | ||
| You think you could have done that outside of Minneapolis? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I mean, within the definition of what that constitutes, I mean, when you have the degree of physical threat to these jurors sitting there in the city, I don't think there's any way on appeal you're going to look at that and say, yeah, this was a fair trial. | ||
| These people know if they go home, The mob is arriving at their door if they vote to acquit this guy. | ||
| The Star Tribune published their biographies today. | ||
| How big a deal is that? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Huge. | |
| Huge. | ||
| Makes the threat very real. | ||
| Okay, Sam, how to get to And Magazine. | ||
| Everybody's got to read this. | ||
| It's amazing. | ||
| How do people get access to you? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Andmagazine.com. | |
| Andmagazine.com. | ||
| All our content accessible from that one portal. | ||
| Go online. | ||
| Rahim? | ||
| Fundrealnews.com. | ||
| Fundrealnews.com. | ||
| That's if you want to help us and help our investigations. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Ashley, um... And to Ashley Babbitt, everything. | |
| Sergeant Babbitt. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| We'll see you tomorrow morning. | ||
| Some special guests on at 10. | ||
| We're going to follow up on this. |
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