Behind the Bastards - ICHH: That Time the CIA dosed a French Town with Acid: Spooky Week #1
Aired: 2021-10-25
Duration: 01:10:54


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=== Weird Body Feelings and Visions (14:57) ===

[00:04:11]  Welcome to spooky week.
[00:04:16]  A week where we are not really any spookier, honestly, than the average things happening because everything happening is terrifying and like ghosts and ghouls are a lot more fun.
[00:04:28]  Anyway, hang up.
[00:04:31]  In this podcast, don't listen.
[00:04:32]  Go watch Herbert West Reanimator.
[00:04:34]  Have some fun.
[00:04:35]  But if you decide to keep listening to podcasts, for some reason, we have a bunch of spooky content for you this week.
[00:04:42]  How was that?
[00:04:42]  How was that introduction, Sophie?
[00:04:49]  Spooky, scary.
[00:04:50]  Garrison.
[00:04:52]  Get going.
[00:04:53]  Do your thing.
[00:04:54]  Yeah, my thing.
[00:04:55]  So, yeah, we're doing spooky, spooky week, which we're very excited about.
[00:04:59]  But yeah, everyone I've told them about spooky week, they're like, oh, so it's just a regular week for the show.
[00:05:04]  Like, you know, pretty much.
[00:05:06]  No, no, it's more fun.
[00:05:09]  But it is, in a few ways, it is actually going to be more fun because the spooky, spooky, mind-bending tales of the goddamn end.
[00:05:19]  Yeah, spooky mind-bending tales actually do have some more fun than just the solely depressing ones.
[00:05:26]  I mean, this was the first theme week that we all agreed upon.
[00:05:31]  This was the first theme week.
[00:05:31]  I was like, can we do something around spookiness near Halloween?
[00:05:36]  And everybody unanimously said yes.
[00:05:39]  Yes.
[00:05:40]  This is the first theme week.
[00:05:44]  We have been promising nut week coming up eventually.
[00:05:47]  Yeah.
[00:05:48]  We're not going to tease.
[00:05:49]  Do we want to talk about things that made us nut or where we talk about the legumes?
[00:05:54]  Mostly legumes.
[00:05:56]  Okay, that's fair.
[00:05:57]  But anyway, we should start off with our first spooky tale.
[00:06:02]  So I'm going to tell a very, very spooky tale of an entire French town going going mad over the course of a single week.
[00:06:11]  Hell yeah.
[00:06:13]  Probably with the help of psychoactive drugs and a certain three-letter agency.
[00:06:18]  You know what I think we're going to get to do, Garrison?
[00:06:24]  I did somebody online.
[00:06:26]  I did get a few messages for that.
[00:06:28]  You can't be racist against the French.
[00:06:30]  They're like the British or Americans.
[00:06:33]  I did get a few messages saying that your French accent was very racist to the French.
[00:06:39]  There is a certain number.
[00:06:40]  It's like the Germans.
[00:06:41]  There's a certain number of genocides after which people get to make fun of your country and it's not racist.
[00:06:47]  And that number is, let's say, three.
[00:06:51]  Honestly, the worst part of this story is that we're probably doing critical support for France.
[00:06:57]  I mean, in a way.
[00:06:59]  Well, honestly, I'm going to be kind of more critical support to the CIA by the end of this one.
[00:07:09]  Yeah, that is the most critical support can be.
[00:07:14]  So anyway, our very spooky tale begins in 1951 in a small, charming French village called Pont Saint-Espray, which is how I'm going to say that, yeah, there you go.
[00:07:27]  So not much happened in this little picturesque little town on the south side of France.
[00:07:32]  You know, on the day we start, it's just like a regular summer day.
[00:07:36]  People are going about their routine, going to their jobs.
[00:07:38]  Kids are playing in the street, enjoying some delicious, freshly baked bread.
[00:07:44]  But suddenly, strange things begin happening.
[00:07:48]  And I'm going to start off with some of the more mild, mild, mild effects here.
[00:07:52]  So on August 15th, first dozens, then hundreds of people began first just complaining of nausea.
[00:08:00]  You know, and some people with some like stomach and abdominal pain.
[00:08:04]  Oh, yeah.
[00:08:05]  They're coming up.
[00:08:06]  Yeah.
[00:08:08]  Less often noted, there was a few instances of like vomiting and diarrhea.
[00:08:13]  Only about 30% of people had diarrhea.
[00:08:15]  That is, that is a weirder, weirder thing.
[00:08:17]  That's a lot of diarrhea.
[00:08:19]  Yeah, that is on like a townwide basis, 3%.
[00:08:22]  Yeah, so 30% of the people.
[00:08:23]  30.
[00:08:24]  Sorry.
[00:08:24]  Yeah, that's a significant strain on the suit.
[00:08:28]  30% of the people affected, which is going to be like a few hundred versus.
[00:08:31]  If I was taking drugs with a group of friends and a third of them had diarrhea, I would say we might need to go to a hospital.
[00:08:38]  This is a sign that we have taken someone that perhaps what we got was tainted.
[00:08:43]  There is, there is, yeah, we'll be talking about what actually, what the actual drugs being used here are going to be.
[00:08:48]  But we're taking the bananas or something where that's not an uncommon side effect.
[00:08:53]  But yeah.
[00:08:54]  Yeah.
[00:08:55]  First nausea, a little bit of vomiting, stomach pains, cramping.
[00:09:00]  Hospitals began reporting people experiencing alternating warm and cold waves over their entire body.
[00:09:06]  The British Medical Journal recalls abundant sweating and a disagreeable odor, which I'm guessing the odor is just because there's all those sweating people in the same cramped hospital room.
[00:09:16]  Sweating people shipping.
[00:09:18]  In the summer heat.
[00:09:19]  Yeah.
[00:09:19]  So anyway.
[00:09:21]  And they're French, so.
[00:09:23]  A lot of escargot sweats.
[00:09:26]  That's all I'm saying.
[00:09:27]  I don't want to get more messages saying that I have to stop.
[00:09:30]  By saying that he's going to do it more.
[00:09:32]  By the way, do we know that the diarrhea was the result of whatever substance, or maybe it's just the wine shits?
[00:09:39]  Again, there's no way to tell.
[00:09:41]  There's no way to know.
[00:09:43]  So yeah.
[00:09:45]  Patients began complaining about weird pains and pressure around their neck.
[00:09:50]  Yeah.
[00:09:51]  And one of the most reported symptoms was insomnia, in some cases lasting several days.
[00:09:57]  Quoting the British Medical Journal, the first symptoms appeared after a latent period of six to 48 hours.
[00:10:04]  The digestive disorders quickly became worse with burning sensations throughout the entire digestive tract.
[00:10:09]  Some experienced sensations of burning at the anus.
[00:10:13]  A state of giddiness persisted.
[00:10:17]  I mean, who's not giddy when your anus is burning, am I right?
[00:10:20]  I do.
[00:10:21]  This is like the clear side that there's like some psychoactive drug going on because your anus is burning and yet you're very giddy.
[00:10:28]  You are on board.
[00:10:30]  Yeah.
[00:10:33]  Yeah, it's like that sign from that.
[00:10:34]  What is that?
[00:10:35]  From a rejected by what was that?
[00:10:37]  That cartoonist like, my anus is bleeding.
[00:10:39]  But like, you're down, you know?
[00:10:41]  You're down for it.
[00:10:41]  Yeah.
[00:10:42]  Yeah, you're, you're, you're 110%.
[00:10:44]  Was that a John Mulaney impression?
[00:10:46]  No, no, no.
[00:10:48]  Who did reject it?
[00:10:49]  That was bad.
[00:10:51]  It wasn't a John Melaney impression, so far.
[00:10:52]  Oh, okay.
[00:10:53]  That's just your poisoned millennial brain.
[00:10:56]  Don Hertzfeld.
[00:10:58]  Yeah, great artist.
[00:11:00]  Yeah, great artist.
[00:11:02]  So these pale and limp patients, still quoting the British Medical Journal, these pale and limp patients showed inconspicuous trembling of the extremities.
[00:11:10]  And they complained of disorders of the visual accommodation and especially being unable to read.
[00:11:17]  So this is the more mild.
[00:11:25]  This could be a long one here.
[00:11:29]  So this is for many people affected, this is where the symptoms stopped.
[00:11:34]  After suffering for insomnia for a while with mild disorders of the visual accommodation and stomach pains and like weird like neck things after they were able to sleep, that was the sign of their recovery.
[00:11:47]  It's like the ability to sleep again after the insomnia wore off.
[00:11:50]  But in around 50 of the cases reported, the effects were much more intense.
[00:11:56]  I'm going to continue from the medical journal first and then get into some of the more colorful reporting around the incident.
[00:12:03]  Quoting the medical journal again, vivid visual hallucinations appeared.
[00:12:07]  In particular, themes of visions of animals and of flames.
[00:12:11]  All of these visions were fleeting and variable.
[00:12:13]  In many of the patients, they were followed by dreamy delirium.
[00:12:17]  Yeah, that's about right.
[00:12:18]  That's actually a pretty good description of like LSA, LSD, those kind of like that.
[00:12:23]  Movies always get it wrong because usually you're not seeing some sort of like visual like cartoon world.
[00:12:29]  It's these kind of like fleeting impressions of visions and things in the corner of your eyes.
[00:12:33]  Yeah, it's a pretty good thing.
[00:12:34]  Especially on lower dose.
[00:12:35]  It is unclear what exactly they were on because there definitely can be the more cartoon elements.
[00:12:39]  I mean, you can get full open-eyed hallucinations.
[00:12:42]  Like especially the shogun chemicals will do that.
[00:12:44]  But I don't get it so much with like LSD, LSA.
[00:12:48]  And LSA, if you want to shit yourself.
[00:12:50]  That is just some Hawaiian baby Woodrow seats.
[00:12:54]  Yes.
[00:12:54]  Get them from Home Depot and have yourself a horrible night.
[00:13:00]  So the delirium seemed to be systematized with animal hallucinations and self-accusation.
[00:13:06]  It's weird, weird terms from the medical journal.
[00:13:09]  Self-accusations.
[00:13:11]  Yeah, I think they're trying to get at ego death, but they don't have terms for it yet.
[00:13:17]  Either that or that sometimes you're hallucinating, you get overcome with guilt, like, oh, I did this terrible thing.
[00:13:23]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:13:23]  Everybody's angry at me or whatever.
[00:13:26]  Continuing from the medical journal, self-accusation.
[00:13:29]  And it was sometimes mystical or macabre.
[00:13:32]  In some cases, terrifying visions were followed by fugus, which is an old term for like fugues.
[00:13:39]  It says fugues.
[00:13:40]  Yeah, fugue.
[00:13:41]  It's pronounced fugue.
[00:13:43]  It's like extreme extreme disassociation.
[00:13:46]  Yeah, yeah, you're kind of zombified a little bit.
[00:13:48]  Yeah, and two patients threw themselves out the window.
[00:13:52]  Oh, boy.
[00:13:53]  Yeah.
[00:13:53]  The delirium was of a confusal kind, which could be interpreted for some moments by a strong stimulation.
[00:13:59]  Every attempt at restraint increased the agitation.
[00:14:02]  Well, yeah, that's...
[00:14:04]  It gets restraining.
[00:14:06]  I've had to restrain a number of people, and it does not calm anyone down.
[00:14:10]  Especially when you have to be restrained.
[00:14:11]  Especially when you're tripping hard.
[00:14:13]  Yeah, this sounds like a real bad time.
[00:14:16]  Not the thing to do.
[00:14:18]  In severe cases, muscular spasms appeared.
[00:14:21]  The duration of these periods of delirium was varied.
[00:14:23]  They lasted several hours in some patients, and in others, they persisted overnight.
[00:14:31]  So that, and then we're going to get a little bit darker, and then we're going to have more fun.
[00:14:35]  We observed four fatal cases, three men and one woman.
[00:14:39]  Three of these people were old and in bad health.
[00:14:41]  One of the men was only 25 years old and had been in good health previously.
[00:14:45]  They died in a muscular spasm in a state of cardiovascular collapse.
[00:14:49]  I think this is probably mostly due to how the doctors were handling these patients.
[00:14:53]  Yeah, that sounds right.
[00:14:54]  I mean, obviously, your blood pressure and one can elevate when you're hallucinating, but I think it also has a lot to do with the way they were being handled.
[00:15:02]  Yeah, you're right.
[00:15:03]  The disorders developed more quickly in children, but also left them more quickly.
[00:15:07]  An interesting feature of some of the cases was that the delirium was the first sign to be noted.
[00:15:12]  So people came up on different ways, right?
[00:15:15]  Some of them first had weird body feelings.
[00:15:17]  Some of them first started just seeing stuff.
[00:15:20]  One other interesting tidbit that we're not going to spend much time talking about, but like around two weeks after this initial incident, some symptoms started to reappear, either through like a secondary poisoning or it was like some kind of like acid flashback.
[00:15:34]  Yeah, it must, because I've done a fuckload of acid.
[00:15:37]  I've never had a flashback.
[00:15:39]  I did at one point, I mean, I have like done some damage, and so I have permanent tracers, but it's not like My guess is they got, I think the idea that there are like acid flashbacks that are vivid hallucinations has been pretty heavily debunked.
[00:15:53]  My guess is they got re-dosed.
[00:15:56]  Yeah, I don't know.
[00:15:56]  I might fight you, but on that.
[00:15:59]  It could be that it was traumatic enough that like they're having, they're dealing with PTSD and kind of that's what's happening.
[00:16:04]  I don't know.
[00:16:05]  And I think I definitely have seen enough reports that would see acid flashbacks definitely actually being a thing in some cases, especially in like the early days of studying these types of drugs in like the 60s.
[00:16:15]  Like the CIA reported a lot of stuff around acid flashbacks around the people that they tortured.
[00:16:20]  But I guess if it's tied to torture, that could just be PTSD stuff.
[00:16:23]  It could be PTSD.
[00:16:24]  It's also, I mean, one thing you have to note, and I don't know what kind of dose these people were getting with the CIA would dose people.
[00:16:29]  They were sometimes giving people doses people do not take.
[00:16:32]  Like you do not take that much acid flip.
[00:16:34]  So yeah, like hundreds or thousands or millions of hits.
[00:16:37]  Yeah.
[00:16:37]  Yeah.
[00:16:38]  Ridiculous, irresponsible doses.
[00:16:40]  Yeah.
[00:16:41]  So now we're going to get to some of the some of the more fun descriptions here, which we can actually kind of like, based on our experiences, can actually kind of see like what was actually going on in these people's heads.
[00:16:51]  So basically, we had at least dozens and dozens of people tripping very, very hard.
[00:16:58]  The local postman was doing his rounds on his bicycle when he was suddenly overwhelmed by nausea and wild hallucinations.
[00:17:04]  Quoting him, it was terrible.
[00:17:06]  I had the sensation of shrinking and shrinking and the fire and the serpents coiling around my arms.
[00:17:12]  Yeah, that guy had some other stuff going on.
[00:17:15]  The mailman.
[00:17:16]  Yeah, because the very first acid trip was on a bicycle.
[00:17:19]  When Heinrich Hoffman made it and dosed himself, he started coming up, I believe it was in Amsterdam, like riding his bicycle.
[00:17:24]  It was just like, well, this is lovely.
[00:17:27]  I've made something cool.
[00:17:30]  Why was the postman riding a bicycle to deliver packages and because they're in France?
[00:17:36]  Because France, we do not have the vehicles.
[00:17:39]  It's the 1950s.
[00:17:40]  It's not.
[00:17:41]  There isn't.
[00:17:45]  I mean, that's.
[00:17:46]  I'm sorry, post.
[00:17:48]  So yeah, the mailman fell off his bike and was taken to a hospital in a nearby town.
[00:17:52]  He was put in a straitjacket and he shared a room with three teenagers who were also tripping.
[00:17:57]  And the teenagers were changed to their beds to keep them under control.
[00:18:00]  Yeah, that's how you do it.
[00:18:01]  This sounds horrible, right?
[00:18:04]  There are some flashbacks to this, to being chained to a bed while tripping.
[00:18:09]  Yeah, that's a bad thing to do.
[00:18:12]  Some of my friends tried to get out the window.
[00:18:14]  They were thrashing wildly, screaming, and the sound of the metal beds and jumping up and down.
[00:18:18]  The noise was terrible.
[00:18:20]  I would prefer to die than go through that again.
[00:18:22]  Yeah, which is totally terrible.
[00:18:24]  This sounds like the worst acid trip you could go off.
[00:18:27]  That sounds like about the worst way you could have a trip go.
[00:18:30]  It sounds awful.
[00:18:31]  So back in the French town, a little girl screamed as she was being chased by man-eating tigers.
[00:18:38]  Oh, my goodness.
[00:18:40]  A woman sobbed about how her children had been grounded to sausages.
[00:18:45]  Oh, great.
[00:18:47]  Oh, no.
[00:18:48]  So graphic and specific.
[00:18:50]  Yeah.
[00:18:52]  A large man fanded off terrific beasts by smashing his furniture and using the wood as weapons.
[00:18:58]  Good for you, buddy.
[00:18:59]  Good for you.
[00:19:00]  A husband and wife ride around chasing each other with knives.
[00:19:06]  Again, probably something else going on there.

=== Chasing Tigers with Knives (02:11) ===

[00:19:09]  My guess is we're not just talking the acid and that.
[00:19:13]  Because I have, again, been on acid a lot around knives and other weapons.
[00:19:17]  I've never chased anybody with that.
[00:19:18]  I've never chased someone around with knives on acid.
[00:19:20]  But that's a couple who was on the verge of a knife chase.
[00:19:24]  I think the important part here is that in 1951 in this French town, acid wasn't a thing yet.
[00:19:31]  Yeah.
[00:19:31]  Hallucinogenic drugs weren't a thing, right?
[00:19:34]  Even like mushrooms weren't popular around this time.
[00:19:36]  No one knew what the hell was going on.
[00:19:39]  They just think that they're just basically losing their minds.
[00:19:42]  There's no other explanation for what's happening to them.
[00:19:45]  And we just can we just say that the most shocking thing that has come out so far is that when Robert was on acid, he wasn't chasing people with knives.
[00:19:53]  That seems like it's honest, like depending on your acid trip, you wouldn't want to chase someone with a knife.
[00:19:58]  Like it's not the kind of dead space you're in.
[00:20:01]  We would like during this time.
[00:20:03]  I've done sober, yes.
[00:20:04]  We would take a bunch of drugs and grab my AK-47 and hike out into the woods and we would shoot down a fir tree and we would drag it back to a clearing and we would bury it.
[00:20:13]  Standing up and we would drape it in pig intestines and put a pig's heart on it, and then we'd cover it in gasoline and light it with firecrackers and dance around it like the pagans of old.
[00:20:21]  But there was nothing aggressive about.
[00:20:23]  No you you, you very rarely would want to hurt somebody on on acid.
[00:20:27]  In my experience, like you, you generally generally are, at least you're like way more compassionate in in a lot of ways um, but if you have no idea what acid is and you're just you're in the 1950s and you're losing your mind and you're seeing weird things, then yeah, I can see how this would maybe cause some other types of behavior.
[00:20:43]  You just think that like, Dad is angry at you yeah, but it's like like, it's like they're not, they're not dosing themselves either, like they're being dosed, right, it's like they don't.
[00:20:51]  It's very different where, like you're deciding to go on a trip, versus this is happening to you and you have no decision.
[00:20:57]  I think for basically anyone in this position, the logical assumption would be, oh, the devil has taken over our town and our minds have.
[00:21:03]  We have been infested with demons.
[00:21:05]  Like, what else are you going to assume?
[00:21:07]  You're not going to be like oh, this drug that's just barely been invented and that nobody really knows about yet, except for weird nerds.
[00:21:15]  It must be some version of that that i've taken accidentally.
[00:21:17]  No, you're going to assume like no demons are in your blood.

=== Scared Dogs and Capitalism (07:40) ===

[00:21:20]  So one interesting tidbit before we, before we go on break.
[00:21:24]  Um, even some of the local animals had been affected by whatever poisoned the town.
[00:21:29]  Um, there there was a what.
[00:21:30]  There was one dog in particular that kept chewing on rocks until its teeth chipped away.
[00:21:35]  I don't like this.
[00:21:36]  And and ducks were behaving very odd.
[00:21:40]  Um, it's described that they they were.
[00:21:41]  They were walking around erect and upright like penguins in a line and they just like write weird, weird behavior from ducks kind of scariest thing i've heard so far.
[00:21:51]  That kind of makes me wonder.
[00:21:53]  I feel like it was a little bit unbelievable until I really start making money.
[00:21:58]  It's financial literacy month and the podcast eating while broke is bringing real conversations about money, growth and building your future.
[00:22:06]  This month, hear from top streamer Zoe Spencer and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrumpier as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up.
[00:22:15]  If i'm outside with my parents and they're seeing all these people come up to me for pictures, it's like what today?
[00:22:21]  Now, obviously it's like 100.
[00:22:24]  They believe everything, but at first it was just like you gotta go get a real job.
[00:22:28]  There's an economic component to communities thriving.
[00:22:31]  If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail.
[00:22:35]  And what I mean by fail is they don't have money to pay for food, they cannot feed their kids, they do not have homes.
[00:22:40]  Communities don't work unless there's money flowing through them.
[00:22:43]  Listen to eating while broke from the Black Effect Podcast network on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
[00:22:52]  On a recent episode of the podcast, Money and Wealth with John O'Brien, I sit down with Tiffany the Budgeta Alicia to talk about what it really takes to take control of your money.
[00:23:03]  What would that look like in our families if everyone was able to pass on wealth to the people when they're no longer here?
[00:23:09]  We break down budgeting, financial discipline, and how to build real wealth, starting with the mindset shifts too many of us were never, ever taught.
[00:23:19]  Financial education is not always about like, I'm going to get rich.
[00:23:23]  That's great.
[00:23:24]  It's about creating an atmosphere for you to be able to take care of yourself and leave a strong financial legacy for your family.
[00:23:34]  If you've ever felt you didn't get the memo on money, this conversation is for you to hear more.
[00:23:40]  Listen to Money and Wealth with John O'Brien from the Black Effect Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.
[00:23:51]  Hey, Ernest, what's up?
[00:23:51]  Look, money is something we all deal with, but financial literacy is what helps turn income into real wealth.
[00:23:57]  On each episode of the podcast, Earn Your Leisure, we break down the conversations you need to understand money, investing, and entrepreneurship.
[00:24:05]  From stocks and real estate to credit, business, and generational wealth, we translate complex financial topics into real conversations everyone can understand.
[00:24:14]  Because the truth is, most people were never taught how money really works.
[00:24:18]  But once you understand the system, you can start to build within it.
[00:24:22]  That means ownership, smarter investing, and creating opportunities not just for yourself, but for the next generation.
[00:24:29]  If you want to learn how to build wealth, understand the markets, and think like an owner, Earn Your Leisure is the podcast for you.
[00:24:35]  Listen to Earn Your Leisure on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.
[00:24:43]  I'm Iris Palmer, and my new podcast is called Against All Odds.
[00:24:46]  And that's exactly what the show is about.
[00:24:48]  Doing whatever it takes to beat the odds.
[00:24:50]  Get ready to hear from some of your favorite entrepreneurs and entertainers as they share stories about defying expectations, overcoming barriers, and breaking generational patterns.
[00:25:00]  I'm talking to people like award-winning actress, producer, and director, Fiva Longoria.
[00:25:05]  I think I had like $200 in my savings account, and my mom goes, what are you going to do?
[00:25:10]  And I was like, I'll figure it out.
[00:25:12]  We had a one-bedroom apartment for like $400 a month, and we all could not afford.
[00:25:15]  Like, I was like, how am I going to make $100 a month?
[00:25:19]  I'm opening up like I've never before.
[00:25:21]  For those of you who think you know me from what you've seen on social media, get ready to see a whole new side of me.
[00:25:26]  Listen to Against All Odds with Iris Palmer as part of the Michael Tura Podcast Network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.
[00:25:37]  I dose our ducks, Gary.
[00:25:40]  We're not wasting acid on the ducks.
[00:25:43]  No.
[00:25:44]  I mean, there's a lot of things you could give ducks.
[00:25:47]  We're not giving ducks asset.
[00:25:49]  That's not.
[00:25:49]  The best thing about giving ducks drugs is they're all monsters.
[00:25:53]  That is true.
[00:25:53]  They are monsters and rapists.
[00:25:55]  Every one of them.
[00:25:56]  Yeah.
[00:25:57]  All of the male ducks.
[00:25:58]  So anyway, a reoccurring theme was that people were running around wildly and being very fearful of like monstery animals and encroaching flames.
[00:26:06]  Sounds like the ducks are having a good time, though.
[00:26:08]  The ducks are doing their ministry of silly walk shit.
[00:26:11]  Like, I don't know what all these people are bummed about.
[00:26:14]  This is rad.
[00:26:15]  Okay, so when you first said that, I heard dogs and I was like, that is the most terrifying thing I've ever heard.
[00:26:20]  Ducks is much funnier.
[00:26:21]  It's like ducks standing like very upright like penguins walking around in the line.
[00:26:25]  I think ducks might enjoy it.
[00:26:27]  I think dogs are a little too aware of what's going on.
[00:26:29]  Garrison did say dog, the stone thing was about the dog.
[00:26:34]  Yeah, with the dog.
[00:26:36]  Scary.
[00:26:36]  Yeah, I just don't know that the dogs enjoy it.
[00:26:38]  Because I've seen dogs accidentally eat large amounts of pot and whatnot.
[00:26:43]  They are nice.
[00:26:43]  They get weird.
[00:26:44]  Yeah, they're pretty scared.
[00:26:46]  They're having a good time.
[00:26:47]  They're pretty scared.
[00:26:48]  Yeah.
[00:26:48]  Yeah.
[00:26:49]  Do you know what is also very spooky?
[00:26:54]  Capitalism.
[00:26:55]  Yeah, capitalism and all of these spooky advertisements to sell you things.
[00:27:01]  Advertisements are also a form of mind control.
[00:27:03]  Speaking of the CIA in the 50s, anyway.
[00:27:05]  Profoundly damaging.
[00:27:13]  What's up, guys?
[00:27:13]  I'm Rashad Bilal.
[00:27:15]  And I am Troy Millings, and we are the hosts of the Earn Your Leisure podcast, where we break down business models and examine the latest trends in finance.
[00:27:22]  We hold court and have exclusive interviews with some of the biggest names in business, sport and entertainment.
[00:27:26]  From DJ Khaled to Mark Cuban, Rick Ross, and Shaquille O'Neal.
[00:27:29]  I mean, our alumni list is expansive.
[00:27:31]  Listen in as our guests reveal their business models, hardships, and triumphs in their respective fields.
[00:27:35]  The knowledge is in depth, and the questions are always delivered from your standpoint.
[00:27:39]  We want to know what you want to know.
[00:27:41]  We talk to the legends of business, sports, and entertainment about how they got their start and most importantly, how they make their money.
[00:27:47]  Earn your leisure is a college business class mixed with pop culture.
[00:27:50]  Want to learn about the real estate game?
[00:27:52]  Unclear as how the stock market works?
[00:27:54]  We got you.
[00:27:55]  Interested in starting a trucking company or a vending machine business?
[00:27:58]  Not really sure about how taxes or credit work?
[00:28:00]  We got it all covered.
[00:28:01]  The Earn Your Leisure podcast is available now.
[00:28:04]  Listen to Earn Your Leisure on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
[00:28:18]  The Gangster Chronicles podcast is a weekly conversation that revolves around the underworld.
[00:28:22]  From criminals and entertainers to victims of crime and law enforcement, we cover all facets of the game.
[00:28:28]  Gangster Chronicles podcast doesn't glorify or promote illicit activities.
[00:28:32]  We just discuss the ramifications and repercussions of these activities.
[00:28:35]  Because after all, if you play gangster games, you are ultimately rewarded with gangster prizes.
[00:28:40]  Our heart radio is number one for podcasts, but don't take our word for it.
[00:28:44]  Find the Gangster Chronicles podcast in the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.
[00:28:52]  I'm Jake Halbert, host of Deep Cover.
[00:28:55]  Our new season is about a lawyer who helped the mob run Chicago.
[00:28:59]  We controlled the courts.

=== Snakes Among the Poetry (13:56) ===

[00:29:01]  We controlled absolutely everything.
[00:29:03]  He bribed judges and even helped a hitman walk free until one day when he started talking with the FBI and promised that he could take the mob down.
[00:29:13]  I've spent the past year trying to figure out why he flipped and what he was really after.
[00:29:18]  From my perspective, Bob was too good to be true.
[00:29:21]  There has got to be something wrong with this.
[00:29:23]  I wouldn't trust that guy.
[00:29:24]  He looks like a little scumbag liar, stool bidget.
[00:29:27]  He looked like what he was, a rat.
[00:29:29]  I can say with all certainty, I think he's a hero because he didn't have to do what he did and he did it anyway.
[00:29:35]  The moment I put the wire on the first time, my life was over.
[00:29:39]  If it ever got out, they would kill me in a heartbeat.
[00:29:42]  Listen to Deep Cover on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:29:55]  We are back from the spooky advertisement.
[00:30:02]  Yeah, anyway.
[00:30:03]  So I think another reoccurring factor for why a lot of these people have very similar types of experiences around like snakes, which we'll talk about later, and like flames, is like with this many people tripping and no one knows what tripping is, I think it's really easy for an idea or a fear to spread from one person to another while they're tripping.
[00:30:22]  With like this many people, I think if someone says something, it's going to start happening to someone else.
[00:30:26]  And it's like this cascading effect where they all develop this very similar fear is because it's almost like being spread like an infection.
[00:30:35]  So there was one man convinced that red snakes were devouring his brain and he jumped out a window.
[00:30:42]  Oh no, wait, did he live through this?
[00:30:44]  He did live.
[00:30:46]  I'm guessing a lot of these, it's like France in the 50s.
[00:30:48]  So I'm guessing most of these buildings are not super.
[00:30:51]  They're not super high up.
[00:30:52]  No, no.
[00:30:52]  They're like falling a foot or two.
[00:30:54]  Although, here we have another one.
[00:30:56]  Another man reportedly leapt from a window yelling, look, everyone, I'm a dragonfly.
[00:31:03]  The man broke both legs.
[00:31:07]  But he stood up and continued running.
[00:31:11]  Fucking rad.
[00:31:12]  King, Sigma, Sigma behavior.
[00:31:15]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:31:17]  Now we're adding Sigma there.
[00:31:19]  We're adding a stat.
[00:31:20]  This is a new kind of man.
[00:31:22]  New kind of dude distracted.
[00:31:24]  The rarity kind of man.
[00:31:25]  Look, everyone, I'm a dragonfly.
[00:31:27]  Breaks both legs, keeps running.
[00:31:28]  Yeah.
[00:31:31]  Based on the information you've provided us, I can't say he's not a dragonfly.
[00:31:35]  No, he is an absolute, absolute king.
[00:31:38]  Oh, good for I hope he had a great life.
[00:31:41]  Yeah.
[00:31:45]  Another one saw his heart escape through his feet and beseeched a doctor to try to put it back into place.
[00:31:51]  Yeah, you don't want to have that happen.
[00:31:53]  That doesn't sound fun.
[00:31:55]  You want to keep that somewhere around the middle of your body.
[00:31:57]  Someone sprinted down the lane, claiming that he was being chased by bandits with donkey ears.
[00:32:03]  Fair enough.
[00:32:04]  At a nearby river, a man was convinced that he was a circus tight rope walker and attempted to balance his way across the cables of a suspension bridge.
[00:32:11]  No, it doesn't say.
[00:32:13]  The report does not tell you.
[00:32:15]  Sounds like he did great.
[00:32:16]  Yeah, like he was right.
[00:32:18]  He's not in the death report.
[00:32:20]  Yeah.
[00:32:20]  So he's not in the death report.
[00:32:22]  Therefore.
[00:32:24]  Another person did try to die in the river.
[00:32:26]  He tried to jump into the river only to be saved by his friends, and he was screaming, I am dead.
[00:32:31]  I am dead.
[00:32:32]  And my head is made of copper, and I have snakes in my stomach, and they are burning me.
[00:32:40]  Such a weird description of like tripping and saying like, my head is made of copper.
[00:32:44]  I'm trying to think of like, what was going on?
[00:32:48]  What series of events did he spiral down in his brain to have that sentence?
[00:32:53]  I'm not quite sure.
[00:32:56]  I can definitely see it happening.
[00:32:58]  I just can't, I'm trying to think, like, what exactly would happen to get to that point?
[00:33:01]  It's real interesting.
[00:33:04]  I think some of these are hard because, again, it's like these people just literally think they're going insane.
[00:33:09]  Yeah.
[00:33:10]  Or that this stuff is just actually happening to them.
[00:33:13]  When you're tripping on acid, you already kind of have the feeling that there is moments where you feel like this is never going to end.
[00:33:20]  Even though you know you're on acid.
[00:33:21]  These people don't know that, right?
[00:33:23]  Like these people don't have the reassurance to like, no, I took acid.
[00:33:26]  I'm on a drug.
[00:33:27]  This is going to be over.
[00:33:28]  Eight hours or so is going to be.
[00:33:29]  They think this is going to last forever, right?
[00:33:31]  Like they think this is just the world now.
[00:33:33]  Like this is just.
[00:33:33]  It's one of those Robert Anton Wilson, who is a thinker I enjoy a lot, writes a lot about how to calm people down when they've taken too much.
[00:33:40]  And most of his advice is around talking about like, okay, well, how long ago did you take it?
[00:33:44]  Hey, well, the good news is that this is going to end here.
[00:33:46]  You know, it's only going to last this long.
[00:33:47]  Like you're through this point.
[00:33:49]  Oh, this is the second hour freakies.
[00:33:52]  And by the third hour, you'll be fine again and enjoying it.
[00:33:54]  Like it's all about keeping in people's minds like this is going to pass.
[00:33:59]  So yeah, you're right.
[00:34:00]  Like this is the fucking worst way to take drugs.
[00:34:04]  All right.
[00:34:04]  So local newspapers and also like national newspapers described this as among the stricken, a delirium rose.
[00:34:12]  Patients thrashed wildly on their beds, screaming that red flowers were blossoming from their bodies.
[00:34:17]  People throwing themselves from rooftops.
[00:34:19]  Men and women throwing their clothes off and running in the streets naked.
[00:34:22]  And children complaining their stomachs were infested with coils and snakes.
[00:34:26]  Oof.
[00:34:27]  Which, I mean, half of that sounds like, yeah, that's like a normal good time just running around the streets naked on acid.
[00:34:32]  Other than that, it's like, yeah, that doesn't seem pleasant with coils and snakes in your stomach.
[00:34:35]  But also like flowers blossoming from your body.
[00:34:37]  I can understand that kind of sensation.
[00:34:40]  But like it definitely definitely wasn't all horrible and nightmarish.
[00:34:45]  We already mentioned the giddy people with burning anuses.
[00:34:49]  But for like the full-on tripping folks, according to the New York Times, there was reports of people hearing heavenly choruses and seeing bright colors.
[00:34:56]  The world looked beautiful to them.
[00:34:58]  Apparently the head of the farming co-op wrote hundreds of pages of like enlightened tripping poetry.
[00:35:08]  That guy must be sick as shit because knowing nothing, he starts tripping.
[00:35:13]  Not knowing he's tripping is just like, time to make some fucking art.
[00:35:17]  You know what this head state is good for?
[00:35:20]  Writing some shit.
[00:35:22]  He just went to his cabin and just wrote poetry.
[00:35:25]  That's fucking awesome.
[00:35:26]  That's a guy.
[00:35:28]  I'll bet he handled just everything that life threw at well.
[00:35:33]  That says a lot about you when you're like, oh, demons have infiltrated my brain.
[00:35:37]  Guess I'm going to hang out in my cabin and write some poems.
[00:35:42]  Hundreds of pages.
[00:35:44]  Wow.
[00:35:46]  Like, I could hardly write shit on acid.
[00:35:49]  I cannot imagine trying to write poetry.
[00:35:53]  I mean, I've done a lot of creative stuff on acid.
[00:35:56]  Creative stuff, yeah.
[00:35:57]  I just feel like specifically like reading and typing can be hard at certain points.
[00:36:01]  You know, if you're like coming down, it can be easier.
[00:36:03]  But like, as you can see.
[00:36:04]  It's not really good for like writing.
[00:36:06]  It's good for ideas that you later can flesh out into writing.
[00:36:10]  Yeah.
[00:36:11]  Yeah.
[00:36:11]  So unfortunately, you know, because this was, you know, no one knew what was going on, many people were taken to local asylums in straitjackets and tied onto beds, making things undoubtedly worse for people tripping.
[00:36:23]  It's one of those things I can't even be angry at them because they don't know what's going on.
[00:36:26]  I know, like, you have no idea what they're doing.
[00:36:28]  They don't know what's going on.
[00:36:29]  Like, no, the whole like every attempt at restraint increased the agitation line is like horrifying from the concept of like you're tripping.
[00:36:36]  You don't know what's going on.
[00:36:37]  People are tying you down to beds, making you feel like you're even more stuck in this permanent state of delirium.
[00:36:42]  It's just, it just is the worst nightmare.
[00:36:44]  Yeah, all of this is horrible.
[00:36:46]  Yeah.
[00:36:47]  The mayor of the town said, like, I've seen healthy men and women suddenly become terrorized, ripping their bed sheets, hiding themselves beneath their blankets to escape their hallucinations.
[00:36:56]  So yeah, if you don't know what's going on, pretty scary.
[00:37:01]  Except for the poetry guy.
[00:37:03]  Good for him.
[00:37:03]  Yeah.
[00:37:04]  Good for him.
[00:37:05]  Yeah.
[00:37:06]  Mang in the bed.
[00:37:07]  So by the time the effects had subsided for everyone affected, which is around like a few days after the initial reported like nausea, like, you know, it didn't affect everyone at the same time.
[00:37:17]  You know, some people got dosed later on.
[00:37:20]  It's unclear what exactly...
[00:37:22]  Because this is the 50s, we didn't have a great idea of the exact timeline of events of like when the first effects were felt and like how all this stuff was spaced out.
[00:37:30]  But this whole incident lasted around like a few days for like everyone, everyone totaled.
[00:37:36]  It was reported that anywhere between like 300 to 500 people had felt the effects.
[00:37:41]  You know, around 50 feeling very, very extreme, like open-eye, like hallucinations of objects that aren't even there, like very extreme hallucinations.
[00:37:50]  And four people did die in connection to the poisoning.
[00:37:53]  At least where people died.
[00:37:54]  Again, it's unclear for exact numbers for a lot of this stuff.
[00:37:58]  An investigation into the sudden outbreak of the madness was promptly underway.
[00:38:02]  Town officials wanted to get to the bottom of this as quickly as possible.
[00:38:05]  Yeah, that makes sense.
[00:38:06]  Yeah.
[00:38:07]  You would want to figure out what was happening.
[00:38:12]  And the blame fell onto a single batch of bread.
[00:38:17]  What?
[00:38:18]  So among the common denominator among those affected is that they all allegedly consumed bread from one specific baker.
[00:38:26]  Yep, that's how it works.
[00:38:28]  He was accused of using ergot-contaminated rye flour, and he was arrested and temporarily imprisoned.
[00:38:35]  Also, a nearby miller that he got the flour from was also arrested and given some of the blame.
[00:38:42]  The funny part is that around this time, the French government had a very top-down grain distribution system that rigidly controlled everything about where the grains were milled, where they were sent, and what bakers could use which flour.
[00:38:54]  So bakers had no choice in what type of flour to use or what type of grain they could use in baking.
[00:38:59]  It was all decided by other people.
[00:39:01]  Yeah, because France, bread is like a real big deal.
[00:39:06]  Pretty important.
[00:39:06]  Yeah.
[00:39:07]  For the record, just like ergot poisoning, there are a lot of cases of like different dancing manias and whatnot in like the medieval, in medieval Europe where like whole towns will be, well, everyone will start like dancing or like hallucinating.
[00:39:20]  And, you know, they always came down as like these people assumed apocryphalist stories about like demon possessions or whatnot.
[00:39:26]  And now a lot of the suspicion is like, oh, yeah, some ergot gotten it.
[00:39:29]  No, yeah, it was.
[00:39:30]  Everybody was just kind of tripping.
[00:39:31]  Ergot poisoning, it seems like one of the rougher trips to go on.
[00:39:34]  It's not super clean.
[00:39:36]  It's no, I mean, I've done LSA, which I think is similar.
[00:39:41]  I feel like it was a little bit unbelievable until I really start making money.
[00:39:46]  It's financial literacy month, and the podcast Eating While Broke is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future.
[00:39:54]  This month, hear from top streamer Zoe Spencer and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum-Pierre as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up.
[00:40:03]  If I'm outside with my parents and they're seeing all these people come up to me for pictures, it's like, what?
[00:40:08]  Today now, obviously, it's like 100%.
[00:40:11]  They believe everything, but at first it was just like, you got to go get a real job.
[00:40:15]  There's an economic component to communities thriving.
[00:40:19]  If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail.
[00:40:23]  And what I mean by fail is they don't have money to pay for food.
[00:40:25]  They cannot feed their kids.
[00:40:26]  They do not have homes.
[00:40:27]  Communities don't work unless there's money flowing through them.
[00:40:31]  Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
[00:40:40]  On a recent episode of the podcast, Money and Wealth with John O'Brien, I sit down with Tiffany the Budgeta Alicia to talk about what it really takes to take control of your money.
[00:40:50]  What would that look like in our families if everyone was able to pass on wealth to the people when they're no longer here?
[00:40:57]  We break down budgeting, financial discipline, and how to build real wealth, starting with the mindset shifts too many of us were never, ever taught.
[00:41:06]  Financial education is not always about like, I'm going to get rich.
[00:41:10]  That's great.
[00:41:11]  It's about creating an atmosphere for you to be able to take care of yourself and leave a strong financial legacy for your family.
[00:41:21]  If you've ever felt you didn't get the memo on money, this conversation is for you to hear more.
[00:41:27]  Listen to Money and Wealth with John O'Brien from the Black Effect Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.
[00:41:38]  Hey, Ernest, what's up?
[00:41:39]  Look, money is something we all deal with, but financial literacy is what helps turn income into real wealth.
[00:41:45]  On each episode of the podcast, Earn Your Leisure, we break down the conversations you need to understand money, investing, and entrepreneurship.
[00:41:52]  From stocks and real estate to credit, business, and generational wealth, we translate complex financial topics into real conversations everyone can understand.
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[00:42:34]  And that's exactly what the show is about, doing whatever it takes to beat the odds.
[00:42:38]  Get ready to hear from some of your favorite entrepreneurs and entertainers as they share stories about defying expectations, overcoming barriers, and breaking generational patterns.
[00:42:47]  I'm talking to people like award-winning actress, producer, and director, Fiva Longoria.
[00:42:52]  I think I had like $200 in my savings account, and my mom goes, what are you going to do?

=== Century Old Ergot Mysteries (03:59) ===

[00:42:58]  And I was like, I'll figure it out.
[00:42:59]  We had a one-bedroom apartment for like $400 a month and we all could not afford.
[00:43:03]  Like, I was like, how am I going to make $100 a month?
[00:43:06]  I'm opening up like I've never before.
[00:43:08]  For those of you who think you know me from what you've seen on social media, get ready to see a whole new side of me.
[00:43:14]  Listen to Against All Odds with Iris Palmer as part of the My Cultura Podcast Network available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.
[00:43:25]  Similar to Ergotten Future.
[00:43:26]  Yeah, they're tryptamines that are like really rough.
[00:43:30]  And it's, I would not, don't, don't do LSA.
[00:43:35]  No Hawaiian baby wood rose seeds for actually like synthesize any Hawaiian baby woodrose seeds.
[00:43:43]  You can synthesize baby wood rose seeds and eat them and you will have maybe the worst trip of your life.
[00:43:54]  Great advice from the pod.
[00:43:56]  So yeah, on the rye and ergot topic, the past growing season was especially wet and ergot fungi did grow across the country's rye fields.
[00:44:08]  But the amount of ergot on the rye and the amount of rye used in baking was thought to not be enough to induce any type of poisoning.
[00:44:14]  In fact, the last time ergot poisoning had struck France was back in 1816.
[00:44:21]  So almost like a century and a half before this incident.
[00:44:25]  That was about a century, if it's the 50s, right?
[00:44:27]  A little less than a century.
[00:44:28]  No, so the last incident was 1816.
[00:44:31]  This was 1916.
[00:44:32]  Oh, 1860.
[00:44:32]  I thought you said 1860.
[00:44:34]  No, no.
[00:44:35]  Okay, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.
[00:44:36]  So a century and a half ago.
[00:44:38]  And no other towns, and no other part of France was affected by anything similar to this.
[00:44:44]  So the ergot thing is kind of iffy.
[00:44:48]  But the ergot explanation was the only thing that doctors, investigators could come to due to their limited knowledge around brain-altering substances and just pressure from town officials to get to the bottom of this so that they had something to blame and people could move on.
[00:45:03]  But as a result, not much evidence really backs up the ergot claim.
[00:45:08]  And a lot of experts today kind of deem it bunk.
[00:45:12]  It doesn't matter.
[00:45:13]  And there's a bunch of like there's this thing Kaikion that the Greeks would take that was like this Greek hallucinatory thing that they think it was because they were putting grain and wine and it might have been ergot poisoned, but also like people enjoyed it.
[00:45:26]  And so there's a lot of debate over whether or not it could have been ergot.
[00:45:29]  But I don't know.
[00:45:30]  I don't know what else.
[00:45:31]  Is there other theories about what it might have been if it wasn't ergot?
[00:45:35]  Oh, yes, there is.
[00:45:36]  Oh boy, is it the CIA?
[00:45:38]  CIA, Garrison.
[00:45:39]  We're going to get to it.
[00:45:42]  So yeah, it doesn't really make much sense that the high amounts of ergot rye would only be in one batch of grain used in a single batch of bread from just one bakery in one small town.
[00:45:50]  Doesn't really make sense.
[00:45:52]  Other explanations that people have come to includes like mercury poisoning and overuse of other fungicides.
[00:45:58]  These have been mostly disproven.
[00:46:00]  Yeah, that doesn't seem like mercury poisoning.
[00:46:02]  No, but speaking as a guy who likes to drink some mercury, you know?
[00:46:06]  Oh, boy.
[00:46:08]  Mercon.
[00:46:09]  So yeah, so there's a lot of other theories around like fungicides being used, but those have been kind of disproven by some people, but others still point to them as possible explanations.
[00:46:17]  But there is one other theory that we will focus on that features two of my favorite things.
[00:46:23]  LSD and the 1950s CIA.
[00:46:26]  Because if you're going to pick a CIA, the 1950s was.
[00:46:34]  You know who else has a lot of fun, Garrison?
[00:46:36]  Who?
[00:46:37]  And it's also the 1950s CIA.
[00:46:40]  Whomst?
[00:46:41]  Our sponsors.
[00:46:42]  Oh, really?
[00:46:43]  Everything that happened here is sponsored only by the 50s CIA.
[00:46:48]  Only the one from the 50s.
[00:46:49]  Yeah, when you order any of our products, they will come to your house and inject you with 7,000 hits of LSD.

=== 1950s CIA LSD Experiments (03:09) ===

[00:46:57]  Hey, free!
[00:46:58]  Hey!
[00:46:59]  That sounds like a great deal, honestly.
[00:47:00]  You're saving a lot of money.
[00:47:02]  That is a lot of free assets.
[00:47:04]  A lot of acid for the amount of money you're spending.
[00:47:07]  You won't do more acid, that's for sure.
[00:47:10]  That's acid for life.
[00:47:11]  You won't do it again.
[00:47:12]  Yeah, you might, probably you won't have to do any expenses ever again.
[00:47:17]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:47:18]  You'll survive.
[00:47:19]  You'll just be a very different person by the end of this year.
[00:47:22]  Yeah, you won't survive.
[00:47:23]  Your body will.
[00:47:24]  Someone else will be inhabiting it at the end of that trip.
[00:47:28]  Someone else will wake up.
[00:47:29]  So, speaking of waking up, here is all the products.
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[00:48:03]  Listen to Before Breakfast wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:48:08]  Hey, lethal listeners, Tig here.
[00:48:10]  Last season on Lethalit, you might remember I came to Hollow Falls on a mission, clearing my Aunt Beth's name and making sure justice was finally served.
[00:48:21]  But I hadn't counted on a rash of new murders tearing apart the town.
[00:48:26]  My mission put myself and my friends in danger.
[00:48:30]  Though it wasn't all bad.
[00:48:32]  I'm gonna be real with you, Tig.
[00:48:35]  I like you.
[00:48:36]  But now, all signs point to a new serial killer in Hollow Falls.
[00:48:41]  If this game is just starting, you better believe I'm gonna win.
[00:48:46]  I'm Tig Torres, and this is Lethal Lit.
[00:48:50]  Catch up on season one of the hit murder mystery podcast, Lethalit, a Tig Torres Mystery, out now.
[00:48:56]  And then tune in for all new thrills in season two, dropping weekly starting February 9th.
[00:49:00]  Subscribe now to never miss an episode.
[00:49:02]  Listen to Lethal Lit on the iHeartRadio app.
[00:49:05]  Apple podcasts are wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:49:08]  When PT Barnum's great American Museum burned to the ground in 1865, what rose from its ashes would change the world.
[00:49:16]  Welcome to Grim and Mild Presents, an ongoing journey into the strange, the unusual, and the fascinating.
[00:49:23]  For our inaugural season, we'll be giving you a backstage tour of the always complex and often misunderstood cultural artifact that is the American Sideshow.
[00:49:33]  So come along as we visit the shadowy corners of the stage and learn about the people who are at the center of it all.
[00:49:39]  In a place where spectacle was king, we will soon discover there's always more to the story than meets the eye.
[00:49:46]  So step right up and get in line.
[00:49:48]  Listen to Grim and Mild presents now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
[00:49:55]  Learn more over at grimandmild.com/slash presents.

=== Frank Olson Army Documents (14:50) ===

[00:50:06]  So 1950s, CIA, wild time.
[00:50:10]  Great time.
[00:50:11]  In 2009, Hank P. Albarelli, an American writer and journalist, released a book called A Terrible Mistake, which focuses on the suspicious death of a CIA scientist named Frank Olson, who worked on the CIA mind control experiments during the late 40s and early 50s.
[00:50:27]  While researching the book, Albarelli claims to have come across a number of old CIA and White House documents referencing the Ponce St. Sprite incident.
[00:50:36]  And he claims that the village was the target of a CIA experiment on the mass effects of LSD.
[00:50:40]  And that around the time that Frank Olson wanted to sever his ties with the Army and CIA, Frank started talking about his participation in the experiment, which may have led to the government offing Olson.
[00:50:50]  So I know that is a lot, and it is slightly more than just a speculation.
[00:50:54]  We're going to get into the evidence here shortly.
[00:50:57]  But by now, it's pretty well known that throughout the 40s, 50s, and 60s, both the U.S. Army and the CIA tried to use hallucinogenic drugs such as LSD as both an offensive weapon and as a way to make like psychic super soldiers.
[00:51:10]  Programs like MKUltra, MK Naomi, Project Bluebird, Project Artichoke.
[00:51:17]  Lots of these things were trying to find different ways of using LSD for like offensive and defensive means.
[00:51:23]  Some of the interest was promoted by Reports of the Soviet Union doing experiments with drugs around the same time.
[00:51:30]  Also, stuff around like, you know, hype, like, like, uh, like, you know, psychic powers and hypnosis.
[00:51:35]  This was very popular around this time for lots of different intelligence agencies.
[00:51:40]  But, so, Al Barelli uncovered a report from 1949 by the director of the Edwood Arsenal, which many, uh, which was where many U.S. government LSD experiments were carried out.
[00:51:52]  And this report stated that the army should do everything, everything is possible, everything possible to launch so-called field experiments using this drug.
[00:52:00]  And later in his 2009 book, Al Barelli claims that he found references to a government document with the label RE, Pont Saint-Desprit, and F. Olsen files, S.O., Span, slash, France, Operation File, inclusive, Olsen, Intel files, hand carry to Bellin.
[00:52:18]  Tell him to see to it that these are buried.
[00:52:20]  This document does exist.
[00:52:22]  Like, we do have this label on this document.
[00:52:27]  But, like, the actual contents of the document are gone.
[00:52:31]  This is just a label that is being referenced as a.
[00:52:34]  We just know there was a thing with this title.
[00:52:36]  Oh, boy.
[00:52:37]  So, the document label references Frank Olson and David Bellin.
[00:52:41]  So, Bellin was the executive director of the Rockefeller Commission, created by the White House in the mid-70s, to investigate abuses carried out worldwide by the Central Intelligence Agency.
[00:52:51]  So, Al Barelli believes that the French town LSD incident, which is like the Pont Saint-Esprit, which is the name of the town, and the F. Olson files mentioned in the document would definitely show that if the document hadn't been buried, as it was said in the label, the CIA, it would show that the CIA was experimenting on the townspeople by dosing them with what he thinks was LSD.
[00:53:14]  Now, there is also a bit more to it than that.
[00:53:16]  Using FOIAs, he got a hold of another CIA document, a two-page report from 1954, detailing a conversation between a CIA agent and a representative of the Sandoz Chemical Company.
[00:53:28]  So, the Sandoz base was the place where Albert Hoffman invented LSD in 1938.
[00:53:35]  And it was only a few hundred kilometers away from Pont Saint-Esprit, the town where this happened.
[00:53:41]  So, the chemical company was actually pretty close, relatively to Europe.
[00:53:47]  And it was also the only place where LSD was being made at the time.
[00:53:50]  And they were providing both the Army and the CIA with a lot of acid.
[00:53:54]  But, I mean, they're also giving it, like they were also giving it to universities.
[00:53:58]  They gave lots to Timothy Leary initially.
[00:54:01]  They sure did.
[00:54:02]  They did give quite a lot to Tim Leary.
[00:54:05]  They were giving it out to a lot of different universities and research people, including the U.S. government.
[00:54:13]  So, the CIA agent wrote in this report that he was detailing a dinner he had with this representative of the chemical company.
[00:54:22]  And he reported that after having several drinks, the scientists started talking about the Pont Saint-Esprite incident.
[00:54:28]  The Sandoz official blurted out, the Pont Saint-Esprite secret was that it was not the bread at all, continued the Sandoz official.
[00:54:34]  For weeks, the French tied up our laboratories with analysis of the bread.
[00:54:38]  It was not the grain ergot.
[00:54:40]  It was a diethyl laminate.
[00:54:42]  Sorry, it's the last part of the LSD name.
[00:54:45]  Yeah, diethyl acid.
[00:54:46]  Yeah, the diethylaminide-like compound.
[00:54:50]  Yeah, lesergic diethyl acid is what LSD stands for.
[00:54:53]  So, yeah, the scientists said that it was basically an LSD-like compound.
[00:55:00]  So, that was a report detailing a dinner that a CIA agent had with this scientist.
[00:55:09]  And that document was uncovered.
[00:55:11]  It was from the 50s.
[00:55:13]  Now, this next part has a little bit less proof to it because there's no documents backing this up.
[00:55:17]  But Al Barelli also claims that during his digging, two former CIA researchers reached out to him and Revealed some details, some possible details of the method of the poisoning.
[00:55:28]  They told him that the village was subjected to an air blitz of pulverized LSD.
[00:55:33]  Holy shit.
[00:55:34]  They acid bombed him?
[00:55:39]  I'm sorry.
[00:55:40]  That's fucking based.
[00:55:44]  To force the town's people into taking a substance through the air.
[00:55:47]  According to the researchers, this manner of distribution proved mostly unsuccessful, forcing the CIA to move on to phase two, which was contaminating local food.
[00:55:58]  So apparently, if the air blitz was a thing, it didn't work super well.
[00:56:04]  That's a bummer.
[00:56:05]  I know.
[00:56:06]  Although, actually, we're about to have Sophie buy us a plane.
[00:56:11]  We will talk about this later, but the CIA did do more air blitzing of acid in New York City, actually.
[00:56:19]  They would ride around in cars in poorer, more like multicultural areas, shooting LSD out of the back of the car to see what would happen to people.
[00:56:29]  I mean, take out the racism, and that really is a dream job.
[00:56:33]  Just driving around cities, air dosing people with acid at random, smoking cigarettes, probably.
[00:56:41]  Oh, my God.
[00:56:42]  So, with the conclusion drawn that it was one of the town's bakeries being the source of the poisoning, Albarelli says it was possible that LSD was put in or onto the bread.
[00:56:52]  So, yeah.
[00:56:55]  And also, lots of the scientists dispatched to investigate the poisoning after it took place were actually from the Sandoz chemical company.
[00:57:04]  They studied the situation for like two or three weeks and gave the explanation that would later be kind of disproven that it was ergot poisoning, which they told to town officials and the British Medical Journal.
[00:57:14]  What no one knew at the time was that one, the existence of LSD in the first place, and two, that Sandoz was the company making it and giving these drugs to the U.S. Army and to the CIA.
[00:57:26]  And apparently, Albert Hoffman himself went to the town to investigate this incident.
[00:57:34]  So, yeah, one last thing on the physical evidence side of things.
[00:57:38]  Albarelli also found an undated White House document that appeared to be part of a larger file that had been sent to members of the Rockefeller Commission containing the names of two French nationals who had been secretly employed by the CIA and made direct references to the quote Pont Saint-Esprite incident.
[00:57:55]  Also, the document linked a former CIA biological warfare expert and the chief of the Fort Derrick's Special Operations Division.
[00:58:04]  So, those are all places that they were experimenting with this similar kind of thing.
[00:58:08]  We have mentioned the Rockefeller Commission a few times now.
[00:58:11]  If you remember the names Frank Olson, the guy, one of the CIA researchers on LSD, and David Bellin, they were on the label of that missing document.
[00:58:20]  So, Bellin was the executive director of the White House Commission to investigate the CIA's abuses and crimes, which was called the Rockefeller Commission.
[00:58:28]  It was formed by President Ford in 1975 to investigate abuses and other activities by the CIA and a few other intelligence agencies that were operating within the States.
[00:58:39]  So, the Rockefeller Commission revealed not only like the reason why we know about MKUltra was because of the Rockefeller Commission.
[00:58:46]  This is how we know this was a thing.
[00:58:48]  So, it not only revealed stuff about programs around MKUltra, but it also revealed the details of the CIA dosing their own scientist, Frank Olson, with LSD and possibly killing him.
[00:58:59]  There's also, like, there's like a Netflix series about this called Woodward, which I haven't actually watched yet, so I don't know how good or accurate it is, but they did make a series a few years ago about the death of Frank Olson and all of the weird, sketchy stuff surrounding both his job and his death.
[00:59:15]  Yeah.
[00:59:16]  We do love the CIA, folks.
[00:59:19]  Uh-huh.
[00:59:20]  So the commission also concluded that the head of the CIA's LSD program, Dr. Sidney Ghostlieb, destroyed all of the drug program's records in 1973 to hide the details of possibly illegal actions.
[00:59:34]  And he was personally involved in the torture of Frank Olson.
[00:59:37]  20 years after Mr. Olson's death and 10 years after the LSD experiments were halted, Dr. Ghatlieb ordered the destruction of all the records of the program, including a total of 152 separate files.
[00:59:49]  This came shortly after other reports that records were being destroyed by Richard Helms, the then director of central intelligence.
[00:59:58]  So it's undoubtedly true that the CIA was up to some shit involving LSD around the exact time period of this French town incident.
[01:00:09]  Yeah, it's certainly not like you're not coming out of nowhere suggesting the CIA may have dosed all these people.
[01:00:15]  No, but they did it to a bunch of folks.
[01:00:17]  If they didn't do it here, they'd done similar shit.
[01:00:19]  And it's also worth mentioning at this point that like this is like the point where the CIA is also running this like enormous heroin network out of France as like basically basically they have this deal with the French where they're like, okay, so the French mob can like basically move all the heroin they want in exchange.
[01:00:37]  They'll like stop the communists from taking control of the Puerto Marseilles.
[01:00:41]  And so this is all also going on like at the same time that they're doing the LSD stuff.
[01:00:45]  It's great.
[01:00:46]  Yeah.
[01:00:46]  So there's some historians that think the LSD theory does not hold enough water.
[01:00:51]  Stephen Kaplan is a U.S. historian specializing in the French food history and the author of the 2008 book Cursed Bread, which follows this incident.
[01:01:00]  He says that he is, I have numerous objections to this paltry evidence against the CIA.
[01:01:06]  First of all, it's clinically incoherent.
[01:01:07]  LSD takes effects in just a few hours, whereas the inhibitance, where the inhibitants showed symptoms only after 36 hours or more.
[01:01:14]  Furthermore, LSD does not cause the digestive elements or the vegetative effects described by the townspeople.
[01:01:20]  So both those claims, I say they're not necessarily true.
[01:01:25]  It's unclear how soon the delirious effects took place.
[01:01:28]  For some people, they were the first effect felt.
[01:01:31]  So the whole thing about the effects only taking effect after 36 hours, that's not necessarily true.
[01:01:38]  And also, LSD can definitely have nauseating or digestive effects.
[01:01:43]  Oh, yeah, absolutely.
[01:01:44]  So that's not, that's, yeah.
[01:01:47]  And but like there were other types of symptoms that are not common for what we think of as like modern LSD.
[01:01:52]  But again, this is the 1950s and we don't know what they were actually on.
[01:01:56]  It's maybe not, it may not be what we think of as like LSD now.
[01:02:00]  It could be slightly, you know, this is a whole class of psychoactive drugs that's unclear what they were all actually being dosed with.
[01:02:07]  Yeah, who the fuck knows what they were being given and who the fuck knows what the actual like dose amount was.
[01:02:12]  Yeah, we have no idea.
[01:02:14]  And it's also, you know, I think it's Leary was the origin of the phrase that like the things that determine what happens on a trip are set, setting, and dose.
[01:02:20]  So your mindset, where you take it and who you take it around and the dose.
[01:02:24]  And the fact that these are somewhat unique symptoms could be to the fact that like other people taking acid have never taken it this way.
[01:02:32]  And this inherently town is all dosed at once without knowing what acid is.
[01:02:37]  So Kaplan's other objections revolve around like the delivery system.
[01:02:42]  He says it's absurd, this idea of transmitting a very toxic drug by putting it in the bread.
[01:02:47]  As for pulverizing it for ingestion through the air, that technology wasn't even possible at the time.
[01:02:51]  Most compellingly, why would they choose the town of Pont Saint-Esprit to conduct these tests?
[01:02:55]  It was half destroyed by the U.S. Army during fighting with the Germans in the Second World War.
[01:02:59]  It makes no sense.
[01:03:01]  And to that, I say, that makes it the perfect town for the CIA to fuck with.
[01:03:04]  Yeah, I mean, they generally would choose to dose someone with acid because it sounded funny.
[01:03:13]  Like, they didn't give a shit.
[01:03:15]  The fact that this town was already kind of like only half inhabited and half destroyed by the by the Second World War that makes it the perfect town to fuck with.
[01:03:23]  And also, they also, the CIA and the government very much did have the means to try to distribute stuff via the air because we can see other documents around the time of them doing this to specific areas of New York City.
[01:03:36]  They also tried to poison the entire New York subway with LSD in the 50s, but that was shut down by higher-ups in the central intelligence.
[01:03:43]  Unfortunately, God, what a time that would have been.
[01:03:49]  But Kaplan isn't sure Ergot's responsible either.
[01:03:52]  He says that ergot contamination would not have worked because it doesn't make sense that only one sack of grain would have been affected.
[01:03:59]  And he says if it was ergot, the effects would have been way more widespread.
[01:04:02]  Yeah, that does sound he rules out LSD on the grounds that the symptoms that people suffered, although similar, don't quite fit what we modernly think of of the drug.
[01:04:10]  Also, I don't think Kaplan's ever taken LSD, so I don't think he actually knows what he's talking about.
[01:04:14]  I think he's right about it probably not being ergot, but I don't think he knows much.
[01:04:18]  Yeah, he also points out that LSD probably wouldn't have survived the fierce temperatures of the baker's oven.
[01:04:24]  Although Al Borelli counters that it could have been, that LSD could have been added after the fact to the surface of the brain.
[01:04:29]  Sure, yeah, you could just drop it on.
[01:04:30]  You could just drop it on with liquid blotters, which will also explain how the effects were so different from person to person, because one person may be having a whole drop of LSD, where somebody may only have a tiny little speck of moist liquid on their.
[01:04:44]  So that can explain some things.
[01:04:45]  But this is still pretty much a mystery.
[01:04:49]  It's very clear.
[01:04:51]  It very much very well could have been some kind of hidden LSD CIA experiment.

=== Camera Fakes and Reparations (05:57) ===

[01:04:56]  Or the CIA could have just been interested in studying what happened in the town since they were also doing studies into psychoactive substances at the time.
[01:05:05]  It could be either or.
[01:05:07]  And that's where it's spooky because you'll never know.
[01:05:12]  So yes, that is the spooky incident of a French town basically thinking that they lost their minds.
[01:05:18]  And then, you know, they love to see it.
[01:05:21]  Do we?
[01:05:22]  I think it's funny.
[01:05:23]  It is a little funny.
[01:05:25]  It is definitely a little funny.
[01:05:27]  It is a great example of the worst way to trip.
[01:05:32]  Yeah, that's pretty high up there.
[01:05:35]  Anyway, critical support to the CIA for dosing random people with acid.
[01:05:40]  Always one of my favorite sets of stories.
[01:05:42]  You love to see it.
[01:05:44]  So yeah, tune in.
[01:05:45]  Tune in tomorrow for more spooky tales.
[01:05:49]  Spooky story.
[01:05:52]  And you can follow the spooky social media that poisons your brain at twitter.com.
[01:05:59]  Happen here, pod and cool zone media, which, yes, Twitter will poison your brain.
[01:06:02]  That is just as spooky.
[01:06:04]  Goodbye.
[01:06:05]  Way more spooky.
[01:06:06]  Way worse for your brain than surprise CIA acid, to be honest.
[01:06:12]  The acid wears off.
[01:06:25]  Give us your attention.
[01:06:27]  We need everything you got fast.
[01:06:28]  Waiting on reparations.
[01:06:29]  We'd be the endless podcast.
[01:06:31]  Tune in every Thursday, politics and wordplay.
[01:06:34]  We fight for the people because they got us in the worst way.
[01:06:37]  From the hill to Brazil, Bombay to Kanty.
[01:06:39]  From the left enclave to what the neocons say.
[01:06:42]  Every Thursday, cop the heady conversation.
[01:06:45]  Break us off with some bread because we're waiting on reparations.
[01:06:49]  Listen to Waiting on Reparations on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
[01:06:57]  The art world is essentially a money laundering business.
[01:07:01]  The best fakes are still hanging on people's walls.
[01:07:04]  You know, they don't even know or suspect that they're fakes.
[01:07:08]  I'm Alec Baldwin, and this is a podcast about deception, greed, and forgery in the art world.
[01:07:15]  I just walked in and saw this bright red painting presuming to be a Rothko.
[01:07:22]  Of course, art forgeries only happen because there's money to be made.
[01:07:27]  A lot of money.
[01:07:28]  I'm listening to how what they're paying for these things.
[01:07:31]  It was an incredible amount of money.
[01:07:34]  You knew the painting was fake.
[01:07:39]  Listen to art fraud starting February 1st on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[01:07:54]  After 30 years, it's time to return to the halls of West Beverly High and hang out at the Peach Pit on the podcast 9021OMG.
[01:08:02]  Visit Jenny Garth and Tori Spelling for a rewatch of the hit series Beverly Hills 90210 from the very beginning.
[01:08:09]  We get to tell the fans all of the behind-the-scenes stories that actually happen.
[01:08:13]  So they know what happened on camera, obviously, but we can tell them all the good stuff that happened off camera.
[01:08:19]  Listen to 9021OMG on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[01:08:25]  On a recent episode of the podcast Money and Wealth with John O'Brien, I sit down with Tiffany the Budginista Alicia to talk about what it really takes to take control of your money.
[01:08:35]  What would that look like in our families if everyone was able to pass on wealth to the people when they're no longer here?
[01:08:42]  We break down budgeting, financial discipline, and how to build real wealth, starting with the mindset shifts too many of us were never, ever taught.
[01:08:51]  If you've ever felt you didn't get the memo on money, this conversation is for you to hear more.
[01:08:56]  Listen to Money and Wealth with John O'Brien from the Black Effect Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.
[01:09:07]  Ernest, what's up?
[01:09:08]  Look, money is something we all deal with, but financial literacy is what helps turn income into real wealth.
[01:09:13]  On each episode of the podcast, Earn Your Leisure, we break down the conversations you need to understand money, investing, and entrepreneurship.
[01:09:21]  From stocks and real estate to credit, business, and generational wealth, our goal is simple.
[01:09:26]  Make financial literacy accessible for everyone.
[01:09:29]  Because when you understand the system, you can start to build within it.
[01:09:32]  Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Earn Your Leisure, and listen now.
[01:09:37]  I'm Ana Navarro, and on my new podcast, Bleep with Ana Navarro, I'm talking to the people closest to the biggest issues happening in your community and around the world.
[01:09:46]  Because I know deep down inside right now, we are all cursing and asking what the bleep is going on.
[01:09:54]  Every week, I'm breaking down the biggest issues happening in our communities and around the world.
[01:09:59]  I'm talking to people like Julie Kay Brown, who broke the explosive story on Jeffrey Epstein in 2018.
[01:10:05]  The Justice Department, through we counted four presidential administrations, failed these victims.
[01:10:11]  Listen to Bleep with Ana Navarro on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[01:10:18]  Will Farrell's big money players and iHeart Podcast presents soccer moms.
[01:10:22]  So I'm Leanne.
[01:10:23]  Yeah.
[01:10:23]  This is my best friend Janet.
[01:10:24]  Hey.
[01:10:25]  And we have been joined at the hip since high school.
[01:10:27]  Absolutely.
[01:10:28]  A redacted amount of years later.
[01:10:30]  We're still joined at the hip.
[01:10:31]  Just a little bit bigger hips.
[01:10:32]  This is a podcast.
[01:10:33]  We're recording it as we tailgate our youth soccer games in the back of my Honda Odyssey with all the snacks and drinks.
[01:10:40]  Why did you get hard seltzer instead of beer?
[01:10:43]  Oh, they had a BOGO.
[01:10:44]  Well, then you got them.
[01:10:44]  Listen to soccer moms on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[01:10:50]  This is an iHeart podcast.
[01:10:52]  Guaranteed human.