Behind the Bastards - Part Two: Kellogg: The Great American Cum Doctor
Aired: 2021-04-08
Duration: 01:34:36


=== Trust Your Girlfriends (04:49) ===

[00:00:00]  This is an iHeart podcast.
[00:00:02]  Guaranteed human.
[00:00:04]  When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands.
[00:00:13]  I vowed I will be his last target.
[00:00:15]  He is not going to get away with this.
[00:00:17]  He's going to get what he deserves.
[00:00:19]  We always say that.
[00:00:21]  Trust your girlfriends.
[00:00:24]  Listen to the girlfriends.
[00:00:25]  Trust me, babe.
[00:00:26]  On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:00:36]  In 2023, bachelor star Clayton Eckard was accused of fathering twins, but the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax.
[00:00:43]  You doctored this particular test twice, Miss Owens, correct?
[00:00:47]  I doctored the test once.
[00:00:48]  It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern.
[00:00:53]  Two more men who'd been through the same thing.
[00:00:55]  Greg Gillespie and Michael Marcini.
[00:00:58]  My mind was blown.
[00:00:59]  I'm Stephanie Young.
[00:01:01]  This is Love Trapped.
[00:01:02]  Laura, Scottsdale Police.
[00:01:04]  As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.
[00:01:08]  Listen to the Love Trapped podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:01:16]  10-10 shots fired, City Hall building.
[00:01:18]  How could this have happened in City Hall?
[00:01:20]  Somebody tell me that.
[00:01:22]  A shocking public murder.
[00:01:24]  This is one of the most dramatic events that really ever happened in New York City politics.
[00:01:30]  I screamed, get down, get down.
[00:01:32]  Those are shots.
[00:01:34]  A tragedy that's now forgotten.
[00:01:36]  And a mystery that may or may not have been political, that may have been about sex.
[00:01:40]  Listen to Rorschach, murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:01:50]  I'm Laurie Siegel, and this is Mostly Human, a tech podcast through a human lens.
[00:01:54]  This week, an interview with OpenAI CEO Sam Altman.
[00:01:58]  I think society is going to decide that creators of AI products bear a tremendous amount of responsibility to the products we put out in the world.
[00:02:05]  An in-depth conversation with the man who's shaping our future.
[00:02:09]  My highest order bit is to not destroy the world with AI.
[00:02:12]  Listen to Mostly Human on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
[00:02:27]  That's my favorite.
[00:02:30]  Now we're starting the episode.
[00:02:35]  Miles is coughing up the marijuana he just smoked.
[00:02:39]  I mean, look, life's tough, man.
[00:02:41]  It's fucking rough.
[00:02:42]  We're recording this on a Monday, which we never do.
[00:02:46]  This is why.
[00:02:47]  This opening is why we don't record on Mondays.
[00:02:50]  Oh, sorry.
[00:02:52]  I woke up at one, got out of bed at two, and then ran in my armor for an hour to wake my body up and have done nothing productive except open a podcast.
[00:03:04]  Thank you.
[00:03:04]  I feel great since I got to run, but must be nice.
[00:03:08]  Yeah, you have like an exerciser's glow.
[00:03:12]  Yeah.
[00:03:12]  I don't know if that's the word.
[00:03:14]  That's exactly what you're supposed to say.
[00:03:16]  You have a colonizer's glow about you.
[00:03:18]  Oh, thank you.
[00:03:19]  Oh, God.
[00:03:20]  I could go for some colonizing, Miles.
[00:03:22]  Just like I'm just going to throw some names out there.
[00:03:26]  El Salvador.
[00:03:27]  That seems like a place that hasn't been colonized.
[00:03:31]  Well, spoil it.
[00:03:32]  Well, never mind.
[00:03:34]  I'm like, I don't want to look it up and find out how horrible that's all in hardware.
[00:03:38]  We've talked about El Salvador in our School of the Americas episode.
[00:03:42]  All the death squads we backed there.
[00:03:44]  Yeah.
[00:03:45]  And then we're confused about MS-13, huh?
[00:03:47]  Which started in the United States.
[00:03:50]  It's all good.
[00:03:51]  It's like, huh?
[00:03:52]  It's all good shit.
[00:03:53]  You know what else is good shit, Miles?
[00:03:56]  James Harvey, John Harvey Kellogg.
[00:03:58]  Which one was he?
[00:03:58]  James?
[00:03:58]  Jesus.
[00:03:59]  It's my favorite.
[00:04:00]  John Harvey Kellogg.
[00:04:01]  And they meant to say John Harvey Keitel.
[00:04:04]  Yeah, I didn't know where you were going there, to be honest.
[00:04:07]  I forgot.
[00:04:09]  I wrote a Harvey Keitel episode, but Sophie said 336 pages was too long for a podcast script.
[00:04:16]  Oh, my God.
[00:04:17]  So, well, it was almost as long as the Will Wheaton script she won't let me read.
[00:04:23]  That's not accurate.
[00:04:25]  You can read that.
[00:04:26]  What have I ever told you you can't?
[00:04:30]  Sorry, legal told us I can't do the Will Wheaton script because there's no evidence that he was the son of Sam Killer.
[00:04:38]  The internet's most favorite child.
[00:04:43]  Speaking of children, you know who was terrible with children?
[00:04:48]  John Harvey Kellogg.

=== Scripting Masturbation Talk (02:50) ===

[00:04:49]  Why did I fall for that?
[00:04:51]  America's Great Cum Doctor.
[00:04:53]  Sophie, can we have the title of these episodes be America's Great Cum Doctor?
[00:04:57]  I mean, if it's what your heart desires, Robert, I've never stopped you.
[00:05:02]  Magna Cum Doctor.
[00:05:04]  Magna Cum Doctor.
[00:05:06]  Magna Cum Laut.
[00:05:07]  Oh, no.
[00:05:08]  Okay.
[00:05:09]  So let's.
[00:05:11]  I actually scripted the start of this being, let's start this episode by talking a whole lot about masturbation.
[00:05:16]  And I guess we got an early start on that.
[00:05:18]  Yeah, we're depraved.
[00:05:19]  We're depraved.
[00:05:20]  I think most people would agree that masturbating is among, with some exceptions, is among the least problematic things that you can do as long as you're private about it.
[00:05:30]  It's low carbon.
[00:05:30]  It's available to people regardless of their income level.
[00:05:33]  And it brings with it a whole bunch of health benefits.
[00:05:35]  You know, people with penises who masturbate regularly have lower risks of a variety of cancers.
[00:05:39]  People with vaginas who masturbate regularly often find climaxing makes sex easier.
[00:05:44]  Everyone who masturbates can benefit from pain relief, better sleep, lower levels of cortisol.
[00:05:49]  It's pretty much a win-win, is what I'm saying.
[00:05:51]  I'm really glad you said privately because Louis C.K. jerked off and said I was thinking about Louis C.K. when I wrote that paragraph and made certain to insert privately.
[00:06:04]  Into a plant, into an innocent plant in front of innocent people.
[00:06:08]  No, no.
[00:06:08]  I'm going to go ahead and say if you're private about it, it's fine to come in plants.
[00:06:12]  No.
[00:06:13]  Yeah, it's fine.
[00:06:14]  They're plants.
[00:06:15]  They don't know what's going on.
[00:06:16]  They don't know what you're doing to them.
[00:06:17]  It's like having sex when a cat's in the room.
[00:06:19]  The cat doesn't understand.
[00:06:20]  And if you're worried, scoop it out after.
[00:06:23]  That seems worse for some reason.
[00:06:25]  Do you really care?
[00:06:26]  You care that much?
[00:06:27]  It's like, like, you're going to bust on the soil, but then you're like, well, I don't want to fully fuck.
[00:06:32]  What is happening here?
[00:06:34]  I think coming on a plant, it's like having sex in front of a cat or a dog when they're in the room.
[00:06:39]  And it's like, yeah, they don't know what's going on.
[00:06:41]  It's not like fucking in front of a monkey.
[00:06:42]  If you've ever fucked in front of a monkey, the monkeys know what's happening.
[00:06:46]  I don't think you're right about that one.
[00:06:49]  I think I'm right about that.
[00:06:50]  I don't like eyes on me, even animal or otherwise.
[00:06:54]  My old roommate's dog used to hump along on the side.
[00:06:58]  Oh.
[00:06:58]  Yeah, I mean, but that doesn't mean he knows what's happening.
[00:07:01]  That just means he knows the motion, but he was castrated at a young age.
[00:07:06]  Shout out to the young legend Roxy.
[00:07:10]  That's the dog's name?
[00:07:11]  Yeah.
[00:07:12]  Wow.
[00:07:13]  I once fucked in front of a couple of hundred monkeys, and it was very clear that they were all well aware of what was happening.
[00:07:18]  You're so weird.
[00:07:20]  How did that happen?
[00:07:21]  Yeah, what?
[00:07:22]  It was in the jungle.
[00:07:24]  Why are you like, oh, shit, it was in the jungle.
[00:07:29]  Robert is now the alt, like, Takate, like, most interesting man in the world guy.
[00:07:35]  Or dos Ekis, rather.
[00:07:36]  Alt dos Ekis.
[00:07:38]  Yeah, you're altos.

=== Medical Genital Torture (15:55) ===

[00:07:39]  I back that.
[00:07:40]  Yeah.
[00:07:40]  It's you just like hitting a 40 in an alleyway, like the same setup.
[00:07:44]  And he's like, if you've never fucked in front of 300 monkeys, have you ever even fucked?
[00:07:49]  It might have been a few dozen.
[00:07:51]  It's hard to tell in the jungle.
[00:07:52]  I really wish I was.
[00:07:53]  I could have seen Milespace when he did that bit.
[00:07:55]  Just give him nice cheers and a cocked eyebrow, you know?
[00:07:59]  There's an energy to it.
[00:08:00]  I feel like if Steel Reserve wanted to advertise with me, I could sell a lot of Steel Reserve.
[00:08:05]  That is extra gravity.
[00:08:08]  211, baby.
[00:08:10]  Where's the 211 crew at?
[00:08:11]  Steel Reserve.
[00:08:12]  When was the last time you vomited on another person?
[00:08:15]  Steel Reserve, 211.
[00:08:17]  Also, armed robbery.
[00:08:18]  Uh-oh, who knows?
[00:08:19]  Whatever.
[00:08:20]  Steel Reserve, the perfect size for holding a six shooter in your other hand.
[00:08:27]  Oh, look at us.
[00:08:29]  Shout out to the California Penal Code.
[00:08:34]  So this was longer than I intended the introduction to be.
[00:08:38]  But the point of it is that you have to work pretty hard to make masturbation be unhealthy.
[00:08:44]  And this is how people, I think, in general feel now because of overwhelming rigorous scientific data showing that it's pretty good for you.
[00:08:51]  But in John Harvey Kellogg's day, scientific consensus was less about what the hard data said and more about whatever a bunch of weird white dudes with sexual hang-ups figured was right.
[00:09:01]  Kellogg was the latest and one of the biggest links in a chain that stretched back generations.
[00:09:06]  Sylvester Graham and many of the other scientists of his day believed masturbation would lead inevitably to insanity if it continued long enough.
[00:09:13]  Kellogg agreed and extended the dangers of coming further to a breathtaking list of maladies.
[00:09:18]  Here's how scholar Vern Bullug captured the different ailments Dr. Kelloff Kellogg blamed on masturbation.
[00:09:26]  Quote, general disability, consumption-like symptoms, premature and defective development, sudden changes in disposition, lassitude, sleeplessness, failure of mental capacity, fickleness, untrustworthiness, love of solitude, bashfulness, unnatural boldness, mock piety, being easily frightened, confusion of ideas, aversion to girls and boys, but a decided liking of boys and girls.
[00:09:49]  So I guess you like tomboys too much if you masturbate all the time?
[00:09:54]  Round shoulders, a weak back and stiffness of joints, paralysis of the lower extremities, a natural gait, bad posture in bed, lack of breast development in females, capricious appetite, fondness for a natural or hurtful or irritation articles such as salt, pepper, spices, vinegar, mustard, clay, slate pencils, plaster, and chalk.
[00:10:15]  You might like spices and chalk if you come too much.
[00:10:20]  Oh my.
[00:10:21]  What is this list?
[00:10:22]  How convenient.
[00:10:24]  Oh, this is weird shit.
[00:10:25]  Oh, my God.
[00:10:27]  Disgust at simple food, use of tobacco, unnatural paleness, acne or pimples, biting of fingernails, shifty eyes, moist, cold hands, palpitation of the heart, hysteria in females, chlorosis or green sickness, anemia, epileptic fits, bedwetting, and use of obscene words and phrases.
[00:10:47]  I will say that last one is accurate.
[00:10:49]  People do cuss a lot when masturbating.
[00:10:53]  I mean, who knows?
[00:10:53]  Who would have thought a teenage with pimples might also be masturbating?
[00:10:58]  Yeah, there's a real correlation, it's not causation thing there.
[00:11:02]  And actually, Miles, you've keyed in on how all of this nonsense really got going in the first place, because scientists of the day didn't want to think that they weren't empiric, basing their conclusions on like empiric reality, even though they weren't.
[00:11:16]  And they found ways to convince themselves that observation backed up their fears about masturbation.
[00:11:22]  Here's how it worked.
[00:11:23]  19th century physicians would observe patients in mental institutions and make a note of what behaviors they engaged in.
[00:11:30]  The idea was that whatever behavior unhealthy people engaged in must somehow cause that unhealthiness.
[00:11:36]  Oh my God.
[00:11:37]  And since the number one thing inmates in asylums did was masturbate, doctors concluded that masturbation caused insanity.
[00:11:46]  What the fuck?
[00:11:49]  I mean, it's not funny because 19th century asylums were just unbelievable crimes against humanity, but good lord.
[00:11:57]  How simple.
[00:11:58]  And we were calling these people fucking experts.
[00:12:01]  These people we lock up in a room and never let out are masturbating.
[00:12:05]  That must be why we lock them up.
[00:12:07]  Damn it.
[00:12:09]  And then what have you, the people that are always looking at them masturbating?
[00:12:13]  Yeah, I don't think any of them ever analyzed themselves a little bit.
[00:12:17]  Did anyone go there, like apply that same logic path to anything else except for this one thing?
[00:12:23]  I mean, they did, but like they did with like kids have pimples and kids masturbate.
[00:12:28]  It must be a cause, you know?
[00:12:30]  But everything.
[00:12:31]  Yeah.
[00:12:31]  Well, then also, let's see, this kid's also, he walks funny.
[00:12:34]  All right.
[00:12:34]  So weird gait and his posture's bad because he's a teen who's like awkward in their own body or they're awkward in their own body.
[00:12:41]  And, you know, just, but I love late, the lazy science of this time.
[00:12:46]  It's amazing.
[00:12:47]  Just like it's so fucking ridiculous and unchallenged.
[00:12:50]  It is.
[00:12:51]  It is.
[00:12:52]  And based on this unbelievably shoddy data, like huge chunks of the scientific community conclude that masturbation is not just bad for you, but a public health menace.
[00:13:03]  And as a result, and since it was like a menace, doctors developed a variety of ways to treat it because obviously this is a life-threatening problem.
[00:13:10]  So almost anything is justified.
[00:13:12]  Ointments were applied to the hands or genitals of the masturbating youth to make touching their genitals painful.
[00:13:18]  Stuff like icy hot, basically.
[00:13:20]  They would put like that on people's genitals to make it hurt to touch.
[00:13:23]  Some surgeons would actually put holes in a person's foreskin and insert a ring into it.
[00:13:28]  Not unlike a Prince Albert, but in such a way that if you were to get erect, it would stretch the foreskin painfully.
[00:13:36]  Yeah.
[00:13:36]  These are torture devices.
[00:13:38]  What the?
[00:13:39]  Like the club for your foreskin?
[00:13:41]  Yeah, like the club for your foreskin.
[00:13:44]  That is so fucked up and violent.
[00:13:46]  Oh my God.
[00:13:47]  It's horrible.
[00:13:48]  What's the horrible?
[00:13:49]  What?
[00:13:49]  And did they have any like success stories that allowed them to be able to call them success stories?
[00:13:55]  This one knocked off the masturbating and now they're completely now.
[00:14:01]  We've seen market improvement.
[00:14:03]  I would imagine the way a lot of the success stories work is that, right, you've got this kid who has some sort of behavioral problem, right?
[00:14:09]  He's not paying attention in school.
[00:14:10]  He's lashing out or something.
[00:14:12]  He's doing something and you're blaming it on the masturbation.
[00:14:15]  So you put a torture ring in his dick and he stops doing the thing that got him punished because you're torturing him.
[00:14:22]  Right.
[00:14:22]  Right.
[00:14:22]  And he doesn't want to be tortured.
[00:14:24]  It's not because he stopped masturbating because masturbation wasn't causing the behavior.
[00:14:28]  Although he probably doesn't masturbate as much because you put a torture ring in his dick.
[00:14:32]  But through the same kind of logic they were using earlier in the mental hospitals, people conclude this helps.
[00:14:38]  Wow.
[00:14:38]  It's great.
[00:14:40]  Closed loop.
[00:14:43]  Castration was ordered in the most severe cases, but circumcision was much more common.
[00:14:48]  And in fact, in the United States, circumcision first gained purchase among Gentiles because it was believed, I mean, accurately, that it would deaden sensation and thus reduce masturbation.
[00:14:58]  So circumcision first became popular among like non-Jewish people in the United States because it was like an anti-masturbation treatment.
[00:15:07]  Good shit.
[00:15:08]  How'd that go?
[00:15:08]  How'd that go?
[00:15:10]  Nobody's ever come, Miles.
[00:15:11]  I don't know if you're aware of this, but it doesn't happen anymore.
[00:15:14]  It's like, I'm going to get some more of that beef fat from earlier.
[00:15:18]  I'm going to be right back.
[00:15:20]  Are you guys still rendering that lard?
[00:15:24]  So today, you know, as with today, like for every popular kind of health ailment boogeyman, even like COVID-19, there's the stuff the doctors actually prescribe for it.
[00:15:35]  And then there's a whole bunch of like mom cures.
[00:15:38]  You know what I'm talking about when I say mom cures?
[00:15:40]  Yeah, homespun remedies cooked up by parents.
[00:15:42]  This is the case today with every kind of public health problem.
[00:15:44]  And it was the case in the 1900s with masturbation, as this section from a study in the Journal of Technology and Culture lays out.
[00:15:52]  Quote, some parents, however, preferred to develop methods of their own, many of which were patented.
[00:15:56]  American inventive genius quickly asserted itself through the development of a wide variety of gloves, guards, and other devices designed to make it more difficult for a child to masturbate.
[00:16:05]  Gloves, for example, were tied on children's hands as they went to bed, and parents were instructed to have their child sleep with the gloves on top of the blanket to make certain that there was not even gloved contact with the genital area.
[00:16:17]  Gloves were also advised for mental patients and were widely used in mental institutions.
[00:16:21]  Specially designed bed cradles were manufactured in order to lift the bedclothes from the genital area so that the child would not rub against the blankets.
[00:16:28]  Girls were discouraged from spreading their legs, and special hobbles were designed to prevent them from doing so.
[00:16:34]  They hobbled young girls' legs to stop them from spreading them because it was thought that that would cause masturbation.
[00:16:44]  Most ubiquitous, however, were the various harnesses designed to protect the genital area, usually patented under the term surgical devices.
[00:16:52]  The female harnesses usually had perforated wire-type meshing so that the girls could urinate through them and never touch themselves.
[00:16:58]  All of these devices were fastened in the back, many with locks for which only the parents had the key.
[00:17:03]  For males, there were similar devices, but most popular were sheaths with metal teeth that fitted over the penis.
[00:17:08]  If the penis became erect, the teeth pierced the flesh and made any erection painful.
[00:17:13]  Each new breakthrough in technology seemed to lead to a new kind of device.
[00:17:17]  Appliances that gave electric shocks, for example, came on the market after the development of batteries.
[00:17:22]  From patent office records, I have been able to identify some 20 devices intended to prevent masturbation.
[00:17:28]  20 devices?
[00:17:29]  Yeah, that's just the ones that got patented.
[00:17:32]  How common would you say this was as a percentage?
[00:17:37]  I have no idea.
[00:17:39]  It was obviously, this was a thing that wealthier parents did to wealthier kids more often than it was for the poor because it costs money to get these kind of medical treatments.
[00:17:47]  It costs money to buy these kinds of devices.
[00:17:51]  But it was not uncommon, I think, is clear.
[00:17:55]  And the idea that even if these devices weren't the most common method of treating with it, punishing some sort of punishment, often involving physical pain for masturbation, I would say was the norm.
[00:18:07]  Right.
[00:18:07]  Like when it was caught, because there was a very widespread idea that it was harmful.
[00:18:11]  Right.
[00:18:12]  So that's, that makes so much sense, I think, in really trying to look at sort of the practical experience of how puritanical American society is and the aversion to sexuality is you have generations of people who were receiving punitive treatment, you know, punishment, physical punishment for exploring their sexuality and how that just sort of keeps manifesting and iterating.
[00:18:42]  Yeah, it's pretty great.
[00:18:44]  Pretty great.
[00:18:45]  I mean, it's wild because some of the devices described, you can now still find on sale, but for a very different purpose.
[00:18:52]  But I suspect that probably has something to do with it.
[00:18:56]  A lot of weird kinks are born during this period because of the medical genital torture industry.
[00:19:02]  It's good stuff, Miles.
[00:19:04]  It's good stuff.
[00:19:04]  So thanks for being on here.
[00:19:08]  It's going to get a lot worse as a heads up.
[00:19:11]  I know.
[00:19:12]  Yeah, this is the best it's going to be.
[00:19:13]  So just thanks.
[00:19:14]  Just savor the moment where we're just talking about a torture cage for a penis.
[00:19:18]  Yeah.
[00:19:20]  So John Harvey Kellogg, the reason I go through all this is to point out that he was not the origin point for the war on masturbation, nor was he the only prominent voice urging abusive treatments to discourage perfectly natural self-pleasuring.
[00:19:31]  He was, however, the most prominent physician in the country by the early 1900s.
[00:19:35]  The sanitarium was one of the most advanced and respected medical facilities in the nation.
[00:19:40]  And since Dr. Kellogg was an experimenter, he experimented with new treatments for masturbation as well.
[00:19:45]  One of these treatments involved what he called skillful catheterization, using his considerable surgical abilities to insert a catheter up the urethra of the offending masturbator.
[00:19:55]  Next, he would electrocute the catheter going up into their urethra, often while shooting water up into the urethra at the same time.
[00:20:04]  To like make it more conductive?
[00:20:06]  Yeah, I guess.
[00:20:07]  Or just because he thinks shooting water into every hole is the solution to problems.
[00:20:11]  It might not have been a torture.
[00:20:13]  That might just have been because, like, well, if we add water, it'll make it better because water is the medicine that I prefer.
[00:20:18]  Because we all know water and electricity, the great cure.
[00:20:21]  I mean, he's electrifying baths, so this is not a huge jump for the man.
[00:20:25]  Jesus.
[00:20:26]  But yeah, shoves a catheter up their urethra and then shoots water and electricity up it.
[00:20:31]  Again, it sounds like something the CIA would do.
[00:20:34]  Right.
[00:20:35]  Like, that's some Guantanamo shit.
[00:20:37]  Is there any evidence?
[00:20:39]  Like, where are the writings on the success?
[00:20:42]  You know, because I'm sure they probably had to manufacture stories to make it like okay, yeah.
[00:20:50]  Okay.
[00:20:50]  Because I'm just like, you know, this is just so fucked up.
[00:20:53]  A big part of this is it is not quite universally accepted that this is bad health-wise, but it was nearly universally accepted that it was morally wrong.
[00:21:01]  So it wasn't just, does it work?
[00:21:03]  It was, this needs to be punished.
[00:21:06]  Right.
[00:21:06]  So this is what you do.
[00:21:07]  It's just like parents beating their kids for thousands of years.
[00:21:10]  Nobody, like, there, you could find a lot of different people writing about how healthy it is to hit your kid.
[00:21:16]  Nobody was doing studies on it.
[00:21:18]  There wasn't empirical evidence about the value of slapping your kid around, but they did it.
[00:21:22]  And they were certain that it helped.
[00:21:24]  So I don't know.
[00:21:25]  Yeah.
[00:21:25]  So this is just the our just sickest urges coming out in this, you know, morally quote unquote justifiable way.
[00:21:34]  Absolutely.
[00:21:35]  So yeah, that was one of Kellogg's experimental therapies.
[00:21:38]  And he would, he, when, when he would have people brought into his facility for chronic masturbation, they would often be interned at the sanitarium for long periods of time where a variety of therapies would be tried on them.
[00:21:49]  We talked last episode about his specific painfully uncomfortable bedding requirements to avoid stimulation.
[00:21:55]  This was in part because Dr. Kellogg viewed comfortable, healthy sleep, the kind where you enter a RIM cycle and dream, as inherently dangerous.
[00:22:04]  He declared in writing, in perfectly natural sleep, there are no dreams.
[00:22:08]  Consciousness is entirely suspended.
[00:22:10]  And for some reason, that is one of the most frightening things I've ever read.
[00:22:13]  It's like, if you're dreaming, you're unhealthy.
[00:22:17]  Someone's dreaming.
[00:22:18]  Someone's having weird dreams, aren't they?
[00:22:21]  Yeah, Dr. John Arville Kellogg is having some dreams that he does not like.
[00:22:25]  Hey, if you're having dreams too, then you're just as fucked up based on this logic.
[00:22:30]  Yeah, that's why you want to make sure their sleeping arrangements are as uncomfortable as possible so that nobody ever gets a good night's sleep.
[00:22:36]  And did he practice what he preached?
[00:22:37]  He did.
[00:22:38]  He did practice what he to the extent that we can verify.
[00:22:41]  As far as we know, he practiced what he preached.
[00:22:44]  Interesting.
[00:22:45]  John Harvey didn't just think dreams were unhealthy.
[00:22:47]  He thought they were immoral.
[00:22:49]  If a child or a woman with a masturbating problem claimed to be unable to control their dreams, he would call them a liar.
[00:22:55]  Erotic dreams, in Kellogg's understanding, were choices, acts of deliberate defiance against morality and against the medical establishment.
[00:23:04]  Dr. Kellogg also urged his patients to avoid consumption of, quote, sexually aggressive food.
[00:23:10]  And here's a quote from Kellogg.
[00:23:11]  Tea and coffee have led thousands to perdition in this way.
[00:23:14]  Candy, spices, cinnamon, cloves, peppermint, and all strong essences powerfully excite the genital organs and lead to the same result.
[00:23:23]  You know how when you're drinking coffee and you just can't stop yourself from just pounding it like a beach at Omaha before the ground assaults.
[00:23:33]  Did he say cinnamon?

=== Kellogg's Sexual Rules (04:10) ===

[00:23:35]  Motherfucker.
[00:23:36]  Might as well call it cum.
[00:23:37]  What about your cereals?
[00:23:39]  Oh, no, they didn't have spices in his day.
[00:23:41]  Remember, he broke up with his brother because his brother put sugar in the cornthes.
[00:23:46]  That was part of why they didn't get along.
[00:23:49]  Yeah, wow.
[00:23:50]  No, John Harvey.
[00:23:52]  I really appreciate that D-Day visual, too.
[00:23:54]  Thank you.
[00:23:54]  Yes, it's I just picture someone furiously masturbating like on a hedgehog on the beach.
[00:24:00]  We're in cunt sector.
[00:24:05]  Well, so, all right, here's the ads.
[00:24:10]  What's up, everyone?
[00:24:11]  I'm Ago Modem.
[00:24:12]  My next guest, you know, from Step Brothers, Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network, it's Will Farrell.
[00:24:23]  My dad gave me the best advice ever.
[00:24:26]  I went and had lunch with him one day, and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot.
[00:24:31]  I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings.
[00:24:34]  I'm working my way up through and I know it's a place they come look for up and coming talent.
[00:24:38]  He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet.
[00:24:43]  Yeah.
[00:24:43]  He goes, but there's so much luck involved.
[00:24:46]  And he's like, just give it a shot.
[00:24:48]  He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit.
[00:24:56]  If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration.
[00:24:58]  It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat just hang in there.
[00:25:06]  Yeah, it would not be.
[00:25:08]  Right, it wouldn't be that.
[00:25:09]  There's a lot of luck.
[00:25:10]  Listen to Thanks Dad on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:25:20]  10-10 shots fired in the City Hall building.
[00:25:23]  A silver .40 caliber handgun was recovered at the scene.
[00:25:28]  From iHeart Podcasts and Best Case Studios, this is Rorschach, murder at City Hall.
[00:25:34]  How could this have happened in City Hall?
[00:25:35]  Somebody tell me that!
[00:25:36]  Jeffrey Hood did.
[00:25:38]  July 2003, Councilman James E. Davis arrives at New York City Hall with a guest.
[00:25:44]  Both men are carrying concealed weapons.
[00:25:47]  And in less than 30 minutes, both of them will be dead.
[00:25:56]  Everybody in the chamber's ducks.
[00:25:59]  A shocking public murder.
[00:26:00]  I screamed, get down, get down.
[00:26:02]  Those are shots.
[00:26:03]  Those are shots.
[00:26:04]  Get down.
[00:26:04]  A charismatic politician.
[00:26:06]  You know, he just bent the rules all the time, man.
[00:26:08]  I still have a weapon.
[00:26:10]  And I could shoot you.
[00:26:13]  And an outsider with a secret.
[00:26:15]  He alleged he was a victim of flat down.
[00:26:18]  That may or may not have been political.
[00:26:20]  That may have been about sex.
[00:26:22]  Listen to Rorschach, murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app.
[00:26:26]  Apple Podcasts are wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:26:35]  There's two golden rules that any man should live by.
[00:26:39]  Rule one, never mess with a country girl.
[00:26:42]  If you play stupid games, you get stupid prizes.
[00:26:45]  And rule two, never mess with her friends either.
[00:26:48]  We always say that, trust your girlfriends.
[00:26:52]  I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of The Girlfriends.
[00:26:56]  Oh my God, this is the same man.
[00:26:58]  A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist.
[00:27:03]  I felt like I got hit by a truck.
[00:27:05]  I thought, how could this happen to me?
[00:27:07]  The cops didn't seem to care.
[00:27:09]  So they take matters into their own hands.
[00:27:12]  I said, oh, hell no.
[00:27:13]  I vowed I will be his last target.
[00:27:16]  He's going to get what he deserves.
[00:27:20]  Listen to the girlfriends.
[00:27:22]  Trust me, babe.
[00:27:23]  On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:27:33]  I'm Lori Siegel, and on Mostly Human, I go beyond the headlines with the people building our future.
[00:27:38]  This week, an interview with one of the most influential figures in Silicon Valley, OpenAI CEO Sam Altman.

=== Blaming the Abuser (15:51) ===

[00:27:45]  I think society is going to decide that creators of AI products bear a tremendous amount of responsibility to products we put out in the world.
[00:27:52]  From power to parenthood.
[00:27:54]  Kids, teenagers, I think they will need a lot of guardrails around AI.
[00:27:57]  This is such a powerful and such a new thing.
[00:27:59]  From addiction to acceleration.
[00:28:02]  The world we live in is a competitive world, and I don't think that's going to stop, even if you did a lot of redistribution.
[00:28:06]  You know, we have a deep desire to excel and be competitive and gain status and be useful to others.
[00:28:13]  And it's a multiplayer game.
[00:28:15]  What does the man who has extraordinary influence over our lives have to say about the weight of that responsibility?
[00:28:22]  Find out on Mostly Human.
[00:28:23]  My highest order bit is to not destroy the world with AI.
[00:28:26]  Listen to Mostly Human on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
[00:28:38]  Ah, we're back.
[00:28:39]  We're back and we're all having a good, appropriate workday.
[00:28:43]  Let's get back to talking about how this old man punished people for masturbating.
[00:28:48]  So it will probably not surprise you to hear that John Harvey Kellogg also forbade his patients from reading romantic literature, which in his mind was as deadly as any hard drug.
[00:28:57]  Quote, storybooks, romances, love tales, and religious novels constitute the chief part of the reading matter, which American young ladies greedily devour.
[00:29:07]  We have known young ladies still in their teens who had read whole libraries of the most exciting novels.
[00:29:12]  The taste for novel reading is like that for liquor or opium.
[00:29:18]  Wait, the whole okay.
[00:29:20]  Uh-huh.
[00:29:21]  Guys like Kellogg, he wants a world where nobody eats spices, everything is bland, nobody sleeps a full night's sleep, and people are tortured for masturbating.
[00:29:30]  And if a girl reads a romance novel, she might become aware of the fact that it's possible to enjoy life.
[00:29:35]  And that would be devastating to John Harvey Kellogg's worldview.
[00:29:40]  What a fucking he is just.
[00:29:43]  It's just so ridiculous.
[00:29:44]  When that earlier quote, when you said it would be like an act of, you know, you know, transgression against a medical establishment, and he coupled that with morality, you know, just sort of this, you know, oh, they've been ordained from fucking by God to be the enforcers of his law, however they see it through their fucked up lens.
[00:30:05]  He believes that strongly.
[00:30:06]  You know, he gets into medicine through the Seventh-day Adventist church.
[00:30:10]  It's one and the same to him.
[00:30:11]  Dedicating him to God.
[00:30:13]  And now, like, it's just like, what a fucking that just shows you, though, too.
[00:30:18]  Like, I'm sure, you know, how, again, that's something else that reverberates in medicine culturally.
[00:30:24]  Yeah.
[00:30:24]  If this is, if this is part of, you know, like, I'm guessing this was the medical establishment, like, quite late.
[00:30:30]  A lot of it.
[00:30:31]  This is not universal.
[00:30:32]  There are, as we'll talk about later, there's doctors, a lot, there's meta, like a not insignificant amount of medical professionals in this period, even who disagree with these conclusions.
[00:30:40]  But this is a fairly mainstream attitude in medicine.
[00:30:44]  Yes.
[00:30:44]  Yeah.
[00:30:46]  You know, John Harvey Kellogg is kind of like a Dr. Oz figure, but he is much more respected among mainstream doctors than Dr. Oz was, in part because he is actually an excellent surgeon, right?
[00:30:55]  Like he isn't.
[00:30:56]  Yeah.
[00:30:58]  So I found a lot of the quotes that I've read so far in a wonderful write-up by Jezebel that'll be on the show notes that I really recommend reading.
[00:31:05]  That article summarizes Dr. Kellogg's arguments against romance literature thusly.
[00:31:10]  The problem with this sort of reading, explained Kellogg, is that it takes a girl beyond the wholesome dreadfulness of her reality and transports her to a place that triggers passion.
[00:31:18]  Passion so great that some girls, quote, discovered the fatal secret themselves.
[00:31:23]  And the fatal secret is, of course, that it's possible for women to orgasm.
[00:31:29]  Oh my God.
[00:31:31]  You don't want to learn that.
[00:31:33]  And it's here that I should note that John Harvey Kellogg bragged his entire life about never consummating his marriage.
[00:31:39]  He was married for like 40-something years and would brag his entire life that he and his wife never fucked.
[00:31:46]  I'm so sorry to her, but I have a feeling he was probably bad at sex.
[00:31:51]  I think she might have dodged a bullet there, to be honest.
[00:31:53]  Yeah.
[00:31:54]  Yeah.
[00:31:55]  I think so.
[00:31:56]  She's like, yeah.
[00:31:59]  How do you like, you're like, oh, you know, I'm not.
[00:32:02]  I've been fine dry for fucking ages, man.
[00:32:05]  I didn't even constantly marry a baby.
[00:32:09]  Oh, my God.
[00:32:12]  The kidney stones.
[00:32:13]  I don't even get my dick wet when I take a bath.
[00:32:18]  A special copper submersible diving bell for my genitals.
[00:32:24]  Oh, God.
[00:32:25]  I don't know.
[00:32:26]  I'm not fancy enough.
[00:32:28]  Oh.
[00:32:30]  To hear about John Harvey Kellogg's dick.
[00:32:32]  No, definitely not.
[00:32:34]  A genital diving bell?
[00:32:36]  Yeah, a genital.
[00:32:37]  That's very funny.
[00:32:40]  I mean, I don't know.
[00:32:41]  What do you even say to that?
[00:32:43]  This is like the fact that you would brag about being married for 40-something years and never once fucking is gives some.
[00:32:52]  And the fact that he's a man who thought that dreaming was unhealthy.
[00:32:55]  Like both of those facts together, like, oh, you were profoundly damaged.
[00:33:00]  Just an incredibly unhealthy person.
[00:33:02]  Yeah.
[00:33:03]  It's unbelievable.
[00:33:04]  And then again, really amazing.
[00:33:06]  This, like, his place in our culture and being so like just unwitting about the entire history about him, aside from just vaguely being like, like I said in the beginning of like, yeah, dude, I know he was like new masturbation.
[00:33:20]  He's a weird thing about masturbation and cornflakes.
[00:33:23]  Yeah.
[00:33:23]  No, no, it's, it's real bad.
[00:33:25]  It's about to get real worse.
[00:33:26]  So John Harvey Kellogg, if questioned on any of the things that I've read, any of his like statements that I've read earlier, if questioned about any of this, would have defended himself by pointing out studies like the research into masturbating mental patients.
[00:33:39]  He would have claimed accurately that the dangers of masturbation were widely agreed upon by experts of his day.
[00:33:45]  But most of his specific claims about how children were impacted by what he called the secret vice were not tied to any specific research.
[00:33:52]  He was convinced for moral reasons that masturbation was a danger eclipsing almost anything else.
[00:33:57]  There was no research to show that electrocution, uncomfortable beds, and mental abuse actually stopped masturbation, but they punished the crime of self-abuse.
[00:34:06]  And John Harvey looked no further than that in justifying his treatments.
[00:34:09]  And again, you have to remember that this guy is like the pop doctor of his day.
[00:34:13]  Parents listen to him.
[00:34:15]  Here is a checklist he published of different behaviors that in his mind were signs that a parent's child was secretly engaged in deadly masturbation.
[00:34:24]  Bedwetting.
[00:34:25]  Quote, masturbation causes the entire genital area to become lax and undisciplined.
[00:34:30]  Changes in behavior.
[00:34:31]  When a girl, naturally joyous, happy, confiding, and amiable, becomes unaccountably gloomy, sad, fretful, dissatisfied, and unconfiding, be certain that masturbation is the cause, for it will rarely be found to be anything other than solitary indulgence.
[00:34:46]  He listed insomnia as a justification for suspicion of evil habits.
[00:34:50]  Trouble in school might also indicate masturbation, as Dr. Kellogg claimed it damaged children's memories and their ability to focus.
[00:34:58]  Masturbation caused lying, bashfulness, and an unwillingness to meet the eyes of adults.
[00:35:03]  The eye is a wonderful telltale of the secrets of the mind, he warned parents.
[00:35:07]  Boldness, a child acting out, in other words, was another sign of secret masturbation, as was fearfulness.
[00:35:14]  Quote, easily frightened children are abundant among young masturbators.
[00:35:18]  The victim's mind is constantly filled with vague forebodings of evil.
[00:35:21]  He often looks behind him, looks into all the closets, peeps under the bed, and is constantly expressing fears of impending evil.
[00:35:27]  Such movements are the result of a diseased imagination, and they may justly give rise to suspicion.
[00:35:34]  Another sign, Zia Miles?
[00:35:38]  He's just listing everything a kid would possibly do.
[00:35:42]  It's so fucked up and unfair.
[00:35:44]  It gets worse.
[00:35:46]  Another sign was unusual vaginal discharge or a stretched vaginal cavity in little girls.
[00:35:52]  Most worrisome, Kellogg wrote, was seductive behavior from young female children.
[00:35:56]  A forward or loose manner in company with little boys is suspicious conduct, especially in one who has previously shown no disposition of this short sort.
[00:36:04]  Girls addicted to this habit usually show an unnatural fondness for the society of little boys and not infrequently are guilty of the most wanton conduct.
[00:36:13]  Now, you already noted, Miles, that a number of these symptoms of secret masturbation are just things kids do, but it gets worse than that because as that Jezebel write-up notes, a lot of the things that Dr. Kellogg laid out as signs of masturbation are also today commonly recognized signs that a child may be sexually abused.
[00:36:30]  Oh my God.
[00:36:31]  Yeah, buddy.
[00:36:33]  Yeah.
[00:36:34]  Jesus Christ.
[00:36:36]  Here's Jezebel.
[00:36:38]  Quote, the Delaware Department of Services for Children, Youth, and Their Families gives a very succinct list of similar behaviors, which also include changes in behavior, inappropriate sexual behaviors, changes in school performance, and vaginal discharge.
[00:36:50]  Modern medicine and psychology identifies these conditions as potential signs of a child being sexually abused.
[00:36:56]  The two lists match, almost word for word.
[00:36:59]  Wow.
[00:37:00]  Now, the thought that countless sex abuse victims were brought to Dr. Kellogg, child sex abuse victims were brought to Dr. Kellogg and punished for masturbation is horrible enough, but it actually gets a lot worse than that.
[00:37:11]  A particularly dire case study would be one that Kellogg himself wrote out in his 1902 edition of Ladies Guide to Health and Disease, a book he absolutely should not have written.
[00:37:21]  He writes that a mother brought in her 10-year-old daughter to him for treatment.
[00:37:25]  The young girl was a rape victim.
[00:37:27]  Dr. Kellogg identifies her as such.
[00:37:29]  He knew that she was a victim of sexual abuse, and he wrote, quote, Her first instruction, and by instruction, he means her first, like she first learned about sex by this guy who abused her, was received from a hoary-headed fiend in human shape who had enticed her to a secluded place and there introduced her to all the nastiness which his depraved and sensual nature could devise.
[00:37:51]  Now, so far, that's not horrible.
[00:37:53]  He's putting the blame on the abuser, which is good.
[00:37:57]  But the problem is that Kellogg didn't see this little girl's chief problem as the fact that she'd been abused and assaulted and robbed of agency over her own body.
[00:38:07]  In his eyes, the problem was that she had been introduced to sexual sin, and that was going to make her masturbate.
[00:38:15]  Oh my God.
[00:38:16]  So again, he gets brought a 10-year-old sex abuse victim, and his first concern is she might start masturbating.
[00:38:22]  Yeah.
[00:38:24]  Yeah.
[00:38:24]  And like this just horrible feedback loop that's impossible.
[00:38:29]  Like all roads just lead to this no matter what.
[00:38:33]  And there's no empathy or anything.
[00:38:36]  And it's the thing where even if this person is a victim and being a victim leads them to this, what he believes is an evil behavior, the solution is always some form of abuse to stop the masturbation.
[00:38:46]  He wrote, quote, a little girl, naturally bright and unusually attractive and intelligent, had become the victim of this soul and body destroying habit, which had brought on a serious nervous disease and threatened to destroy both body and mind before she had reached the age of 10 years.
[00:39:01]  So you see what he's doing here.
[00:39:02]  He's identifying that she's traumatized, but he's blaming it not on the assault, but on the fact that she's masturbating, that he assumes she's masturbating as a result of the assault.
[00:39:13]  Right.
[00:39:14]  As a physician, Dr. Kellogg saw his job as not helping this girl with the trauma from her assault or even treating the physical symptoms of her rape.
[00:39:23]  His job was to stop her from masturbating.
[00:39:26]  In cases like these, he had a standard procedure.
[00:39:29]  Step one was that the parents needed to catch their child in the act.
[00:39:34]  The best way to do that, he believed, was to wait until a few minutes after the child had gone to bed and sneak up on them, throw off their blankets, and quote, under some pretense, forcibly examine the child's genitalia for evidence of sexual excitement.
[00:39:48]  So again, he's brought in a rape victim and he tells her parents, what you need to do is assault her in the night.
[00:39:54]  In the night, yeah.
[00:39:56]  Yeah.
[00:39:58]  Hard to define a worse thing to do in that situation.
[00:40:03]  Yeah.
[00:40:04]  And again, no matter, oh, it's presumed masturbating is the reason that they have are displaying trauma on top of or displaying their signs of their trauma on top of acknowledging but not understand.
[00:40:18]  It's just so vile.
[00:40:20]  Yeah, it's it's really bad.
[00:40:22]  And like to know that, again, whatever, if this is the majority or whatever, that it's mainstream enough that there are generations of parents that ingested this, like how, like what the reverberations of that are and like down like in our culture and like where we're at.
[00:40:39]  Like this is, yeah, this is these are the seeds of that.
[00:40:43]  Yeah, you, you think about just how fucked up things, how, how clearly fucked up both not just like the things revealed by me too, but sort of the reaction to it and the lashing back against it, all of that.
[00:41:00]  This is a part of that, right?
[00:41:02]  Because a lot of the generations that created what are today sort of like the conservative moral code were raised in this stuff.
[00:41:10]  Their grandparents were raised in this stuff, right?
[00:41:12]  And they passed some of that down.
[00:41:13]  Like, this is a piece of that horrible puzzle.
[00:41:16]  It's pretty bad.
[00:41:18]  Right.
[00:41:18]  So back on the subject of inspecting kids to make sure they're not masturbating.
[00:41:23]  For children with penises, this was as easy as looking for an erection.
[00:41:26]  For children with vaginas, Kellogg wrote, quote, if the same course is pursued with girls under the same circumstances, the clitoris will be found congested with the other genital organs, which will also be moist from increased secretion.
[00:41:37]  So let's recap.
[00:41:39]  His advice to the parents of 18-year-old rape victim was to throw off her covers by surprise in the dead of night and forcefully inspect her vagina.
[00:41:46]  His prescription for each parents of sex abuse victims was to abuse their children further.
[00:41:51]  It's yeah.
[00:41:55]  Again, what's the that?
[00:41:58]  What are you saying at that?
[00:41:59]  But again, it's like they don't care about evidence because this really isn't about improving their lives.
[00:42:06]  The real threat is it's telling that like he's obviously disgusted at the rapist, but his real horror is that the young girl might take some sort of agency over her body.
[00:42:21]  That's the actual thing that he's he's frightened of.
[00:42:23]  Right.
[00:42:24]  Or boys.
[00:42:25]  He didn't like boys taking ages.
[00:42:26]  He didn't believe people had.
[00:42:28]  He believed like, I think it was more like your body belongs to God, right?
[00:42:33]  It's the seventh day.
[00:42:33]  I mean, it's not just the Seventh-day Adventists that believe this, but that's where he gets it.
[00:42:37]  It's this idea that your body is not your own and it is my job as a physician to stop you from abusing it.
[00:42:44]  It's pretty bad.
[00:42:45]  Yeah, and like, what a morbid responsibility to think you have.
[00:42:49]  Yes.
[00:42:49]  Yeah.
[00:42:50]  Pretty dark.
[00:42:52]  And I should say that everything we've just outlined was the least invasive deterrent that John Harvey Kellogg suggested for the cases of masturbation.
[00:43:00]  The goal here was to shame these kids by embarrassing them.
[00:43:04]  They didn't like that was that was the actual goal was that like if your parents catch you in the night, you will be ashamed and you won't do it anymore.
[00:43:10]  He believed that what he, one instance of what he called morally justified violation would deter most children.
[00:43:17]  For those who soldiered on, his prescription grew more severe.
[00:43:20]  Quote, bandaging the parts has been practiced with success.
[00:43:23]  Tying the hands is also successful in some cases, but this will not always succeed, for they will often contrive to continue the habit in other ways, as by working the limbs or lying upon the abdomen, covering the organs with a cage has been practiced with entire success.

=== Clitoridectomy Shock (04:24) ===

[00:43:37]  Like many doctors of his era, Kellogg prescribed circumcision to his most severe patients.
[00:43:42]  He was adamant that in these cases, painkillers should not be prescribed.
[00:43:47]  Quote, The operation should be performed by a surgeon without administering an anesthetic, as the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment, as it may well be in some cases.
[00:44:02]  The soreness, which continues for several weeks, interrupts the practice, and if it had not previously become too firmly fixed, it may be forgotten and not resumed.
[00:44:10]  Jesus.
[00:44:12]  So...
[00:44:12]  Surgery with, yeah, genital surgery without anesthesia is your punishment for masturbating.
[00:44:22]  We are now in the territory of like, I think some CIA guys would be like, whoa, hold on.
[00:44:28]  Someone get the Geneva Convention really quick.
[00:44:31]  We've never read it, but I'm pretty sure this is.
[00:44:34]  This definitely is over the line, huh?
[00:44:37]  Yeah.
[00:44:37]  Damn.
[00:44:38]  Yeah.
[00:44:38]  Yeah.
[00:44:39]  It's so...
[00:44:40]  And I'm just thinking, again, how accepted that kind of treatment is.
[00:44:46]  And like how the pattern of inflict as much pain as possible to solve the problem.
[00:44:54]  Yep.
[00:44:55]  Still exists to this day.
[00:44:56]  It sure does, Michael.
[00:44:58]  Schematically, you know what I mean?
[00:44:59]  Yeah.
[00:44:59]  Yeah.
[00:45:00]  It sure does.
[00:45:02]  Surgery was also prescribed for little girls.
[00:45:05]  And I'm not going to prevaricate here.
[00:45:06]  The surgical option was what we now call female genital mutilation.
[00:45:11]  They did not call it that then.
[00:45:13]  They called it the severing of the clitoris and the labia minora.
[00:45:16]  Kellogg himself wrote in one of his case studies, quote, a little girl about 10 years of age was brought to us by her father, who came with his daughter to have her broken of the vile habit of self-abuse into which she had fallen.
[00:45:28]  Having read an early copy of this work, the father had speedily detected the habit and had adopted every measure which he could devise to break his child of the destructive vice which she had acquired, but in vain.
[00:45:38]  It finally became necessary to resort to a surgical operation by which it is hoped that she was permanently cured, as we have heard nothing to the contrary since, and as the remedy seemed to be effectual.
[00:45:50]  So that is a father who is a fan of Kelly Kellogg's books, reads them and becomes obsessed with the idea that his daughter might be masturbating, become convinced that she is masturbating, that he can't stop her, and after repeatedly assaulting her in the night, takes her to Dr. Kellogg to have her genitals mutilated.
[00:46:09]  That's what happened in that case study.
[00:46:11]  And that's a success.
[00:46:13]  That is a success.
[00:46:14]  And one of the good things that the Jezebel article notes is that as you can tell from that, like in that write-up, Dr. Kellogg doesn't check in on the child.
[00:46:23]  He says it is hoped she was permanently cured because we haven't heard anything to the contrary since.
[00:46:30]  He doesn't do evidence.
[00:46:32]  Yeah, he doesn't check in.
[00:46:34]  He doesn't be like, yeah, let's look back in after four or five weeks after this surgery to see if it did anything.
[00:46:39]  Like, he doesn't do a follow-up.
[00:46:42]  It's fucking horrific, man.
[00:46:43]  It is, it's butchery.
[00:46:45]  Yeah.
[00:46:45]  And he's treating it like it's some kind of tumor.
[00:46:49]  It's like, yeah, yeah, no, just do that and then don't worry about it.
[00:46:51]  Like, that's the problem.
[00:46:52]  That should do it.
[00:46:53]  Yeah.
[00:46:54]  That'll take care of it.
[00:46:57]  Like you're saying, it's butchery.
[00:46:58]  It's not actual.
[00:47:00]  There's nothing restorative or helpful or healthy about fucking any of it.
[00:47:07]  No, and that's because it's not really based in science.
[00:47:10]  It's based in morality.
[00:47:11]  He doesn't need to study how his patients do in the long term when he does stuff like this because he knows he's right.
[00:47:17]  It would be a waste of time to confirm it.
[00:47:20]  Many doctors in Kellogg's era prescribed female genital mutilation as a treatment for masturbation.
[00:47:26]  But Kellogg pioneered another treatment, the application of carbolic acid to the sensitive parts of the sexual organs in order to burn them badly enough that all sensation was permanently deadened.
[00:47:36]  Jesus Christ.
[00:47:38]  I know this, this is the this is in some ways maybe the worst one since Georgia Tan.
[00:47:43]  Yeah.
[00:47:44]  Yeah.
[00:47:44]  It's bad.
[00:47:45]  It's real fucking bad.
[00:47:47]  Didn't we do Georgia Tan with Sophia?
[00:47:49]  We did.
[00:47:50]  We're just scarring for a 20 day fiancé left and right here, man.
[00:47:54]  We're going to break them down.
[00:47:56]  Yeah, please associate my stoner reality podcast with this right now.

=== Profoundly Abusive Practices (04:17) ===

[00:48:01]  Check this show out.
[00:48:02]  Nothing says being high and watching TV, like profoundly abusive practices towards probably tens of thousands of children.
[00:48:12]  You think that's that's the number?
[00:48:14]  I mean, not just talking Kellogg here.
[00:48:17]  I know, I really have no idea, but it was, it was, he was not the only doctor doing this.
[00:48:23]  Right.
[00:48:23]  Like, and we'll, because this was, you didn't want to talk about sex.
[00:48:27]  Well, we'll never know how many little girls in this period in the United States were mutilated in this way.
[00:48:32]  Right.
[00:48:33]  Here's some ads.
[00:48:36]  What's up, everyone?
[00:48:37]  I'm Ego Modem.
[00:48:39]  My next guest, you know, from Step Brothers, Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network, it's Will Farrell.
[00:48:50]  My dad gave me the best advice ever.
[00:48:53]  I went and had lunch with him one day, and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot.
[00:48:58]  I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings.
[00:49:00]  I'm working my way up through it.
[00:49:02]  I know it's a place they come look for up and coming talent.
[00:49:04]  He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet.
[00:49:09]  Yeah.
[00:49:10]  He goes, but there's so much luck involved.
[00:49:13]  And he's like, just give it a shot.
[00:49:14]  He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit.
[00:49:23]  If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration.
[00:49:25]  It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat just hang in there.
[00:49:32]  Yeah, it would not be.
[00:49:34]  Right, it wouldn't be that.
[00:49:35]  There's a lot of luck.
[00:49:37]  Listen to Thanks Dad on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:49:47]  10-10 shots fired, City Hall building.
[00:49:50]  A silver .40 caliber handgun was recovered at the scene.
[00:49:54]  From iHeart Podcasts and Best Case Studios, this is Rorschach.
[00:49:59]  Murder at City Hall.
[00:50:00]  How could this have happened in City Hall?
[00:50:02]  Somebody tell me that.
[00:50:03]  Jeffrey, who did it?
[00:50:04]  July 2003.
[00:50:06]  Councilman James E. Davis arrives at New York City Hall with a guest.
[00:50:11]  Both men are carrying concealed weapons.
[00:50:14]  And in less than 30 minutes, both of them will be dead.
[00:50:23]  Everybody in the chamber's ducks.
[00:50:25]  A shocking public murder.
[00:50:27]  I scream, get down, get down.
[00:50:29]  Those are shots.
[00:50:29]  Those are shots.
[00:50:30]  Get down.
[00:50:31]  A charismatic politician.
[00:50:32]  You know, he just bent the rules all the time, man.
[00:50:35]  I still have a weapon.
[00:50:37]  And I could shoot you.
[00:50:40]  And an outsider with a secret.
[00:50:42]  He alleged he was a victim of flat down.
[00:50:45]  That may or may not have been political.
[00:50:46]  That may have been about sex.
[00:50:48]  Listen to Rorschach, murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app.
[00:50:52]  Apple Podcasts are wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:51:01]  There's two golden rules that any man should live by.
[00:51:05]  Rule one, never mess with a country girl.
[00:51:09]  You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes.
[00:51:11]  And rule two, never mess with her friends either.
[00:51:15]  We always say that, trust your girlfriends.
[00:51:19]  I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of The Girlfriends...
[00:51:23]  Oh my god, this is the same man.
[00:51:25]  A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist.
[00:51:29]  I felt like I got hit by a truck.
[00:51:31]  I thought, how could this happen to me?
[00:51:33]  The cops didn't seem to care.
[00:51:35]  So they take matters into their own hands.
[00:51:38]  I said, oh, hell no.
[00:51:40]  I vowed I will be his last target.
[00:51:42]  He's going to get what he deserves.
[00:51:47]  Listen to the girlfriends.
[00:51:48]  Trust me, babe.
[00:51:49]  On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:52:00]  I'm Laurie Siegel, and on Mostly Human, I go beyond the headlines with the people building our future.
[00:52:05]  This week, an interview with one of the most influential figures in Silicon Valley, OpenAI CEO Sam Altman.
[00:52:12]  I think society is going to decide that creators of AI products bear a tremendous amount of responsibility to products we put out in the world.

=== Enemas and Yogurt (12:10) ===

[00:52:18]  From power to parenthood.
[00:52:20]  Kids, teenagers, I think they will need a lot of guardrails around AI.
[00:52:24]  This is such a powerful and such a new thing.
[00:52:26]  From addiction to acceleration.
[00:52:28]  The world we live in is a competitive world, and I don't think that's going to stop, even if you did a lot of redistribution.
[00:52:33]  You know, we have a deep desire to excel and be competitive and gain status and be useful to others.
[00:52:39]  And it's a multiplayer game.
[00:52:42]  What does the man who has extraordinary influence over our lives have to say about the weight of that responsibility?
[00:52:48]  Find out on Mostly Human.
[00:52:50]  My highest order bit is to not destroy the world with AI.
[00:52:53]  Listen to Mostly Human on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
[00:53:04]  We're back.
[00:53:05]  We're back.
[00:53:07]  Now, I have noted that Kellogg was not alone in using female genital mutilation as a treatment for masturbation here, but I should also note that a huge number of medical professionals railed against the practice and that even in Kellogg's day, a significant amount of legitimate documented scientific literature pointed to it being a wildly harmful procedure.
[00:53:25]  This was not uncommon.
[00:53:26]  It was also not universally agreed upon as healthy.
[00:53:30]  In 1868, when John Harvey was just 15, a gynecologist named Charles Rest wrote a book called Lectures on the Diseases of Women.
[00:53:38]  In it, he recalled the story of a 53-year-old woman who went to a surgeon for anal fissures.
[00:53:43]  The surgeon in this case, without getting her permission or asking at all, also removed her clitoris.
[00:53:48]  West in 1868, a male gynecologist, condemned this behavior and wrote, It will, I imagine, scarcely be contended that proceedings which we should reprobate if practiced on the one sex change their character when perpetrated on the other.
[00:54:04]  And he's saying, if they'd cut a guy's dick off, you wouldn't be okay with this.
[00:54:08]  Why is it okay when it's a clitoris?
[00:54:11]  So there were people who recognized, there were male doctors who recognized how horrible this was.
[00:54:17]  It was not just a sign of the times, you know?
[00:54:21]  Right.
[00:54:22]  I mean, like, so what was it take, like, did the general public need doctors like that to like even stimulate that kind of thinking for them to be like, yeah, hold on, maybe that is bad.
[00:54:32]  Or do you think there were people who on hearing that were also like, what the fuck?
[00:54:37]  I'm sure there were.
[00:54:38]  I'm sure there were plenty of even like poor, illiterate dudes who were like, I'm not going to let you cut my kids up.
[00:54:44]  Like, fuck you.
[00:54:44]  Like, stay the hell away.
[00:54:46]  Yeah.
[00:54:46]  I'm certain that that happened, but obviously those people aren't writing books and those people aren't giving lectures at major medical schools like John Harvey Kellogg, you know?
[00:54:56]  John Harvey Kellogg kept up his devotion to clitorectomies his entire medical career, even after 1912, when mainstream medical textbooks began to condemn the practice as not just completely ineffective, but liable to cause the kind of mental health problems that James Harvey Kellogg blamed on masturbation.
[00:55:11]  The fact that he was wrong about a great deal of very important things had no negative impact on John Harvey's sanitarium.
[00:55:17]  This was unfortunately due partly to the fact that he was right about an awful lot.
[00:55:21]  Kellogg was a major early proponent of exercise, which at the time was not widely recognized as beneficial.
[00:55:28]  He was also way ahead of the curve on gut bacteria.
[00:55:31]  Medical scientists are only really now starting to get a handle on how important gut bacteria are to your overall health.
[00:55:37]  But in the late 1800s and early 1900s, Dr. John Harvey Kellogg understood how big a deal it was.
[00:55:44]  He partnered with Henri Tissier.
[00:55:47]  Some guy, some French fucking guy, a scientist at the Pasteur Laboratory in France.
[00:55:51]  And together they would study acidophilus.
[00:55:53]  Proving he understood how to do actual rigorous empirical science when he wanted to, Kellogg and his partner found that people whose guts had acidophilus suffered far fewer digestive diseases than people who did not.
[00:56:05]  So he was capable of doing science.
[00:56:08]  Yeah, in that very strict way, though.
[00:56:11]  All right, if all these people got it, then that means that.
[00:56:16]  You know what I mean?
[00:56:16]  If they're all masturbating, then that's a sign.
[00:56:19]  That's all I need.
[00:56:21]  You know, it's like the clock is broken clocks, right?
[00:56:25]  Kellogg became a huge advocate of yogurt's health benefits.
[00:56:28]  He became rightfully convinced that the bacteria in yogurt protected against disease and believed those bacteria, quote, should be planted where they are most needed and may render the most effective service.
[00:56:39]  This, of course, meant eating yogurt.
[00:56:41]  But that isn't all it meant, Miles.
[00:56:43]  And you know the guy this was, right?
[00:56:45]  You know what he's this.
[00:56:46]  He's going to put it up their butt.
[00:56:47]  Enemas, yep.
[00:56:50]  Yep.
[00:56:50]  Kellogg had been convinced for years that auto-intoxication, which we discussed last episode, was behind all bowel disease.
[00:56:58]  Once he realized that yogurt could populate the gut with good bacteria, he saw yogurt as a cure for auto-intoxication, and the best way of administering it would be via enema.
[00:57:07]  He would use his enema machine for this.
[00:57:09]  Whole quarts of water first, and then gigantic quantities of yogurt up the ass second.
[00:57:15]  Wow.
[00:57:18]  I mean, at least he had evidence.
[00:57:21]  There's a lot more evidence that shooting yogurt up your ass is good than anything.
[00:57:24]  Yeah, than anything he's ever done in his life.
[00:57:26]  But that's where we're at with this fucking guy.
[00:57:29]  And his patented machine, obviously, because...
[00:57:31]  He's patented shooting stuff up his own ass machine, which absolutely wasn't a kink.
[00:57:36]  No, not at all.
[00:57:38]  And this is custom machinery or not, maybe just repurposed industrial machinery.
[00:57:45]  Yeah, the machine that he designed to shoot yogurt up his own ass.
[00:57:48]  Because he started every single day with a regular enema and a yogurt enema.
[00:57:53]  Is that really expensive?
[00:57:55]  I mean, he was really excited.
[00:57:56]  It's a waste of human beings.
[00:57:57]  He runs the enema company, you know?
[00:57:59]  I know, but I mean, like, how much yogurt are you going through a day there?
[00:58:03]  I think less than the water.
[00:58:05]  Right.
[00:58:05]  I mean, like, yeah, gallons of yogurt.
[00:58:08]  I mean, maybe that's a flex if you're saying, like, oh, I mean, I'm rich enough that I can shoot gallons of yogurt up my ass every day.
[00:58:14]  I literally do a half barrel a day.
[00:58:16]  Yeah, as a rule, if you're ever wondering what Dr. James John Harvey Kellogg was getting up to on a specific day in history, you would be safe in guessing shooting a variety of liquids up his own ass.
[00:58:26]  Gut problems were at least as big a part of the sanitarium's treatments as abusive sexual procedures.
[00:58:32]  McGill University writes, quote, there were other options for those who didn't see the appeal of being pumped full of yogurt through their rear portals.
[00:58:39]  The SANS mechanotherapy department had come up with the vibratory chair.
[00:58:43]  This was a spring-loaded device that shook the patient violently to stimulate intestinal peristalis.
[00:58:49]  Once the toxins had been dislodged in this fashion, headaches and backaches would disappear, and according to Kellogg, the body would be filled with a healthy dose of oxygen, and the sand's coffers would be filled with a heavy dose of money.
[00:59:01]  The sand also offered a variety of baths, cold, hot, and electrified.
[00:59:05]  If this did not shock the disease out of the unfortunate victim, then Dr. Kellogg resorted to surgery, removing the offending part of the intestine.
[00:59:12]  Kellogg carried out over 22,000 such operations during his career with a remarkably low complication rate.
[00:59:19]  Probably not necessary procedures, but at least he was good at it.
[00:59:23]  Jesus.
[00:59:25]  Shake up the shit out of them.
[00:59:31]  And what was that based off of?
[00:59:33]  People who were did a lot of off-road buggying.
[00:59:39]  Were really healthy because they were just...
[00:59:41]  Just had the rockiest seat in town.
[00:59:43]  What the fuck?
[00:59:44]  I have no idea what that one was based on.
[00:59:47]  They were just trying shit past a certain point, you know?
[00:59:50]  Right.
[00:59:50]  Like, fuck it.
[00:59:53]  John Harvey Kellogg's pioneering work played a major role in popularizing yogurt within the Western diet.
[00:59:58]  He was also one of the first major advocates of soy milk, which he found was an even better way to propagate acidophilus than yogurt.
[01:00:05]  And this brings us to Dr. Kellogg's most famous and popular contribution to mankind.
[01:00:10]  Breakfast.
[01:00:11]  John Harvey Kellogg had a brother, Will Keith, who for a time worked with him at the sanitarium.
[01:00:16]  Together, the two spent years developing foods meant to replace meat in the diet.
[01:00:20]  They created a number of different nut butters, experimented with soy, and looked for more ways to work whole grains into the American diet.
[01:00:26]  Dr. Kellogg was a big fan of Zwybak, a twice-baked biscuit that he felt helped people purge toxins.
[01:00:33]  But Zwybak was so hard that at one point, an elderly patient at the sanitarium broke her dentures on it and threatened to sue him if he didn't pay for them.
[01:00:41]  John Harvey didn't want to pay for more old people's dentures, so he and his brother Will set to work developing a way to pound grain and fiber into their patients without damaging their teeth.
[01:00:50]  Through an incredibly boring process of trial and error, they arrived at cornflakes.
[01:00:54]  McGill writes, quote, John Harvey was only interested in the health properties of the new products.
[01:01:00]  Could these serve as an antidote to the passions stirred up by meat?
[01:01:03]  But Will was a businessman and was bent on commercialization.
[01:01:07]  Now, I found a write-up on encyclopedia.com that actually gives quite a good explanation of the fallout that resulted between John Harvey and his brother Will, who seems like the only sort of decent member of the family.
[01:01:19]  John Harvey absolutely comes out as the asshole in this relationship.
[01:01:23]  Quote, Will, often known as WK Kellogg, never had a very good relationship with his older brother.
[01:01:29]  According to Benjamin Klein Hunnicutt in Kellogg's Six Hour Day, famous for his energy and untiring work, John Harvey cultivated the image of a superman, dictating to secretaries for eight hours at a stretch, performing operations through the night, conspicuously working at meals and on trains.
[01:01:43]  John Harvey expected WK to live up to this myth and berated him for being lazy if he stole some time at home.
[01:01:49]  When Post began making millions of dollars through aggressive advertising and free giveaways, WK wanted to develop a similar large-scale advertising campaign.
[01:01:57]  When his elder brother said no, WK began looking for ways to take control of the company.
[01:02:01]  Because of his notorious frugality, John Harvey had convinced employees to accept lower pay along with stock in the cereal business, now known as the Kellogg Toasted Cornflake Company.
[01:02:10]  WK secured financing from a wealthy St. Louis insurance broker and quietly began buying stock.
[01:02:16]  By 1906, he controlled the company.
[01:02:19]  So they make a cereal company together, but Will does not get along with his brothers.
[01:02:24]  For one thing, his brother's just shaming him constantly for like having a life outside of making cereal.
[01:02:29]  What do you mean?
[01:02:29]  Oh, I heard you used pepper the other day, you sick fuck.
[01:02:33]  Well, and Will is seeing like other cereal companies have started to develop at this point, and Will is seeing them advertise and seeing them add sugar, and he's like, we can make more money if we do this.
[01:02:43]  And John Harvey Kellogg is like, no, it's about keeping people boring.
[01:02:47]  And yeah, so Will buys up the company in secret and takes it over from his brother.
[01:02:51]  The break between John and Will came in part because Will wanted to add sugar to cornflakes so human beings would enjoy it.
[01:02:57]  John Harvey thought sugar would make people come and he violently opposed the idea.
[01:03:01]  It is hard to overstate what a huge deal cornflakes were for society.
[01:03:05]  I found an NPR interview with an author who wrote a book about the Kellogg brothers, a guy named Markell, and he does a good job of explaining just why this was revolutionary.
[01:03:13]  Quote, making breakfast was an ordeal.
[01:03:16]  So even if you made porridge or mush, these whole grains took hours to melt down and then make into a mush or a soft form.
[01:03:22]  And so these poor mothers were getting up very early and they were probably taking care of their children all night.
[01:03:27]  They had to start a wood-burning fire.
[01:03:28]  And so making breakfast was a great ordeal.
[01:03:30]  But John Harvey Kellogg invented them for the invaluted people who came to his Battle Creek sanitarium.
[01:03:35]  It was his little brother Will who realized, you know, there are a lot more people who are healthy and just want a convenient, tasty snack than those who are ill and need an easily digestible breakfast.
[01:03:44]  So he added a little sugar, a little salt to cornflakes.
[01:03:46]  And it just took the world by storm in 1906 because you could simply pour breakfast out of a box.
[01:03:52]  Even dad could make breakfast now.
[01:03:54]  Even dad, who's busy suspecting you of jerking off.
[01:03:58]  Yeah, even dad, who's tired from breaking into your room at night.
[01:04:02]  Who doesn't know how to break his own cycles of abuse and mistreatment can even make porcelain cornflakes.
[01:04:09]  Jesus.
[01:04:10]  But yeah, holy shit.
[01:04:12]  That's so fucking wild.
[01:04:13]  You know, it's something like that just creates all this cover for the name now.
[01:04:18]  It's amazing.
[01:04:19]  I don't know of anyone else we've ever covered with this incredible mix of outrageous harm done to society and also helped create things every single person listening to this enjoys.

=== Racist Painkiller Beliefs (15:44) ===

[01:04:29]  Right.
[01:04:30]  Like, no matter who you are, he either created or helped popularize something that you use regularly, that you ingest regularly.
[01:04:39]  And that's like, you can't say that about Hitler.
[01:04:42]  Yeah.
[01:04:44]  Like overall, right?
[01:04:45]  That doesn't matter.
[01:04:46]  Like it's the brand is just at a certain point, it's just a brand.
[01:04:50]  And then you look back and like, I don't know, Keller, genital mutilation?
[01:04:53]  No, that's cereal.
[01:04:54]  They're cereal.
[01:04:55]  No.
[01:04:56]  They're not cutting up people.
[01:04:57]  Because there's even like that movie, The Road to Wellville.
[01:05:00]  Yeah.
[01:05:01]  I don't know if you remember that in the 90s.
[01:05:03]  That's like such a like I remember.
[01:05:05]  They left that part out, didn't they?
[01:05:07]  Yeah, they left a lot of part out of that whole fucking thing where really weird.
[01:05:12]  They didn't include him abusing children.
[01:05:14]  Yeah.
[01:05:15]  Yeah, it's just, but yeah, but that's, I think, yeah, we just have this blind spot for certain shit at times.
[01:05:21]  Or maybe they did see him.
[01:05:22]  You're like, we can't do that.
[01:05:23]  It doesn't matter because nobody knows about podcasts yet where someone will take the time to research this.
[01:05:28]  And it's, you know, it's fucking, it wasn't easy to research this.
[01:05:32]  It's not easy to read it to you.
[01:05:33]  Nobody on the call was having a good time during that portion of the episode.
[01:05:37]  I expect a decent number of listeners for perfectly reasonable reason will be like, I can't, I can't do this.
[01:05:42]  Listen to that.
[01:05:42]  Yes, I can't do it.
[01:05:44]  Like, whereas a funny video of a funny movie about Cereal Man, nobody has an issue with that.
[01:05:51]  Right.
[01:05:52]  And thus things get whitewashed.
[01:05:54]  And it has, you know, modern consequences.
[01:05:56]  Right now, there's a bunch of bills being debated, and I think some even being passed that will allow doctors to like act with their conscience and refuse to treat LGBT people.
[01:06:04]  And it's the same thing, the idea that medicine and morality can be tied.
[01:06:07]  They shouldn't be.
[01:06:08]  Exactly.
[01:06:08]  Like morality in medicine means doing your best to alleviate and treat the symptoms and illnesses of your patients.
[01:06:17]  Right.
[01:06:17]  Like morality in medicine means nothing more than doing your best to ensure the health of the people who come to you for treatment.
[01:06:23]  Your personal opinion shouldn't fucking matter.
[01:06:25]  Yeah.
[01:06:26]  That's what being a doctor is.
[01:06:27]  Well, but sometimes you're like, oh, I'm a monster that needed to use the occupation of the brain.
[01:06:33]  Yeah.
[01:06:34]  Oh, I'm a monster.
[01:06:35]  I'm just smart and I'm so cunning that I realize this is the profession I need to get in proximity of people to do what I do.
[01:06:42]  I think when that guy wrote first do no harm, what he meant was cut up little boys and girls.
[01:06:49]  Right.
[01:06:49]  Yeah.
[01:06:52]  And again, the reverberations just in our culture, you know, it's like everywhere, this same mentality of punishing for getting close to being liberated or understanding something or something that's counter to what has been biblically preached and how that leads to just the absolute dehumanization of people.
[01:07:12]  And like we're still, it echoes, in the same way as like, you know, slavery does in certain ways, like just white supremacy, that if your medicine is...
[01:07:20]  was entrenched in religion, like this, on some level, that's not going to still be, you know, part of the culture we're having a reckoning with yep, but I mean yogurt yeah, yogurt's probably.
[01:07:33]  I need to know how much.
[01:07:35]  And if there was like, if he was, he was he cutting the yogurt, selling his pure yogurt?
[01:07:41]  But was he cutting that shit?
[01:07:42]  You know, was he pouring in some cocaine with the yogurt?
[01:07:45]  To where it went?
[01:07:46]  Yeah, stepping on.
[01:07:47]  Hey doc, I heard you're stepping on my yogurt with buttermilk.
[01:07:54]  Oh so yeah uh, there were a number of other significant positive developments that Dr Kellogg and his sanitarium played a major role in.
[01:08:03]  They were probably the first major business to make calorie counts and nutrition facts available for all of the meals they served.
[01:08:10]  Uh, this would be decades before the practice was mandated in the United States.
[01:08:13]  John Harvey was also a philanthropist.
[01:08:15]  In 1893, he decided to expand his operation into Chicago.
[01:08:19]  The city police chief advised him to set up his new sanitarium, in quote, the dirtiest and wickedest place in the city.
[01:08:25]  So he built it in a slum that was heavily populated by impoverished black people.
[01:08:30]  Um, but uh, the satellite facility included a free pharmacy and clinic, free baths, free laundry, an evening school for Chinese language students and a visiting nurses service.
[01:08:39]  His cafeteria offered a penny lunch service and fed an estimated 500 to 600 people a day, so it wasn't all mutilation.
[01:08:48]  You know, free clinics are good.
[01:08:50]  Free well, I don't know free.
[01:08:52]  His free clinic is a mixed pack.
[01:08:54]  Free laundry is good right yeah, i'm sure.
[01:08:57]  I'm sure he had very evolved ideas on uh yeah biracial oh, oh oh, miles mixing we're getting there.
[01:09:04]  Yeah, I was gonna say I can only imagine what this fucking guy is doing, being like i'm gonna service this community, like we're getting there, buddy.
[01:09:14]  The success of the sanitarium swelled dr Kellogg's ego and led to conflicts with his church.
[01:09:19]  By some accounts, his break with Ellen White and the Seventh Day Adventist faith started when he caught Sister White eating a piece of fried chicken.
[01:09:26]  Um, the conflicts between the two of them went on for years and are more complex than I can easily summarize, but a lot of it has to do with Kellogg's occasional embrace of the scientific method.
[01:09:35]  The bottom line is that he allowed his scientific beliefs to sometimes contradict the teachings of his prophet, he was accused of blasphemy and disfellowshipped in 1907.
[01:09:45]  One of the beliefs that got Kellog in trouble was a partial acceptance of evolutionary theory.
[01:09:50]  Unfortunately for everyone, John Harvey's embrace of evolution was mainly a corollary to his embrace of eugenics.
[01:09:57]  From a wonderful and comprehensive write-up in dr Kellogg's own local paper, the Battle Creek Inquirer, quote, Kellogg's support of eugenics was tepid to begin with, likely due to eugenics's ties to Darwinism and his connection to the Seventh DAY Adventist church, which teaches a literal interpretation of the sixth day, sixth day creation story in Genesis.
[01:10:15]  It wasn't until his break from the church in 1907 that he began to truly embrace the ideas Kellogg combined his belief in eugenics, his well, the improvement of human functioning by improvement of living conditions, to come up with his own brand of eugenics he referred to as race betterment.
[01:10:31]  The things he had advocated avoiding through his biologic living meat and alcohol were deemed race poisons.
[01:10:40]  Race, that's some Nazi shit.
[01:10:41]  Yeah.
[01:10:42]  Race betterment.
[01:10:43]  Race poisons.
[01:10:44]  Race betterment.
[01:10:45]  Race poisons.
[01:10:47]  But, of course.
[01:10:48]  You know, that's what the fuck is.
[01:10:49]  You know what I mean?
[01:10:50]  Like, it's so, honestly, is he one of the...
[01:10:54]  I'll let you go on, but I wonder deep down, we would have been fine if this motherfucker died.
[01:11:00]  We would have been absolutely.
[01:11:02]  Somebody was going to give us...
[01:11:04]  Somebody was going to give us a break.
[01:11:04]  Somebody was going to figure out cereal.
[01:11:06]  Yeah.
[01:11:07]  He figured out the acidophilus shit with some other dude.
[01:11:10]  Yeah.
[01:11:10]  You know what I mean?
[01:11:11]  They would have figured that out without me.
[01:11:14]  We didn't need him.
[01:11:14]  You know what?
[01:11:15]  This is such like, you know, fuck.
[01:11:20]  You know, you're not special.
[01:11:21]  You sick.
[01:11:22]  Getting into the fact that he basically created the cultural space for guys like Dr. Phil and Dr. Oz, too, the celebrity doctors.
[01:11:29]  He's a big one of that as well, you know?
[01:11:31]  Not the only one.
[01:11:32]  All bad.
[01:11:33]  All bad.
[01:11:34]  Race betterment.
[01:11:35]  Race betterment.
[01:11:36]  Race poisons.
[01:11:38]  Race poison.
[01:11:39]  Oh, thank you, white savior.
[01:11:41]  Please.
[01:11:42]  Yeah, baby.
[01:11:42]  Tell the save these people.
[01:11:44]  Now, yeah, it's interesting that that last line I just read was basically word for word Nazi propaganda because Dr. Kellogg was not a Nazi.
[01:11:53]  Now, the precise nature of his racism is fascinating to puzzle out.
[01:11:57]  He is a...
[01:11:58]  We can talk a bit about the kind of racist that he is.
[01:12:02]  He's an interesting kind of racist.
[01:12:03]  He's a kind of racist.
[01:12:06]  Yeah.
[01:12:07]  Dr. Brian Wilson, who wrote the book that was a major source for part one, seems to have framed his bigotry as a natural evolution of his theories on biologic living.
[01:12:16]  He saw selective breeding as the same thing as avoiding meat and masturbation.
[01:12:21]  Quote, overall, Kellogg was worried about the ultimate fate of the human race.
[01:12:25]  Kellogg believed, quote, if we continue on with our bad habits, we would eventually become extinct potentially.
[01:12:30]  So there was this larger issue of the human race.
[01:12:33]  But if you drill down a little bit more in his public statements, it's pretty clear that he was really concerned about the white race.
[01:12:39]  John Harvey agreed with Teddy Roosevelt that white people were committing race suicide by allowing inferior races into the country.
[01:12:47]  These races included black and Asian people, but also people from the bad parts of Europe, like Italy.
[01:12:52]  In the 19 teens, Kellogg melded a warning against race mixing into his theory of biologic living.
[01:12:59]  The Battle Creek Inquirer notes that his beliefs on eugenics were often at odds with how he ran his business and personal life, which is part of why I think he's an interesting kind of racist.
[01:13:08]  Quote, he rejected segregation of blacks at his sanitarium, where African-American doctors and nurses were trained.
[01:13:15]  He and his wife, Ella Eaton, fostered more than 40 children, among them African-Americans and children from Latin America.
[01:13:21]  Kellogg took great care of Sojourner Truth during her visits to the sanitarium, reportedly grafting some of his own skin to her leg to treat an ulcer.
[01:13:29]  And he personally invited Booker T. Washington to visit as a guest in 1910.
[01:13:34]  So again.
[01:13:35]  Do we ever see some of that skin graft?
[01:13:40]  I have no idea.
[01:13:41]  That's some pre-internet shit.
[01:13:43]  You could be like, well, you know, I have skin to Sojourner Truth, so I'm not sure.
[01:13:47]  I literally put my skin on her.
[01:13:50]  I took my skin and donated it.
[01:13:54]  I mean, the point when I say he's not a Nazi isn't to like whitewash him at all.
[01:13:59]  It's to say that like, you can be extremely racist and not be a Nazi.
[01:14:03]  Like Teddy Roosevelt, not a Nazi, monster, you know?
[01:14:07]  Right.
[01:14:08]  It's just, well, because it's not, it's, because the hate is warped in this weird, you know, betterment.
[01:14:14]  Exactly.
[01:14:15]  Oh, no, I'm not saying, I'm saying it's race that I'm saying you're flawed to begin with.
[01:14:20]  Yeah.
[01:14:20]  And then what I'm saying is I'm hopeful for you, degenerate human.
[01:14:25]  We can make your race better.
[01:14:26]  Not as good at white people, but better, as opposed to the Nazis who say we should exterminate your race.
[01:14:31]  I mean, if you guys would stay off that race poison, and I think that's what that other facility is for, even though he's running it, he's observing and collecting data.
[01:14:41]  And I'm sure he is.
[01:14:42]  That's for him, it's not really, it says nothing charitable about it.
[01:14:45]  Like there's clearly something that, yes, he'll be like, well, it's fine outwardly that it's a help, but really I'm here to make observations that reinforce my racist worldview.
[01:14:55]  Yes.
[01:14:55]  Yes.
[01:14:56]  Yeah, it's one of those things.
[01:14:58]  Yes, he was a, he was a monstrous bigot.
[01:15:01]  He wrote in 1902, quote, the intellectual inferiority of the Negro male to the European male is universally acknowledged.
[01:15:08]  This guy who knew Booker T. Washington.
[01:15:13]  You know what, you know, who Booker T. Washington was smarter than the guy who thought sleep was poison.
[01:15:19]  Yeah, right.
[01:15:22]  Seriously.
[01:15:23]  I mean, this is, but like, it's also like the, you know, dawn of like this insidious sort of, you know, will later be like deracialized concern troll racism.
[01:15:32]  Yes.
[01:15:33]  Because it's still the same thing.
[01:15:35]  You know at the end of the day, even though you're not espousing violence to begin with, when you start from there, the premise is violent.
[01:15:43]  And that's where it's just like, come, like, really, though.
[01:15:46]  The race betterment foundation.
[01:15:48]  Come on.
[01:15:49]  Yeah.
[01:15:50]  The race betterment foundation.
[01:15:52]  Yeah.
[01:15:52]  Now, under Kellogg and under his race betterment foundation, the sanitarium would actually play host to three international eugenics conferences.
[01:16:00]  At these, Kellogg advocated for a eugenics registry nationwide that could be used to establish what he called racial thoroughbreds.
[01:16:09]  He advised people to consult medical records to determine their racial makeup before getting married.
[01:16:14]  And like all eugenicists, he supported the sterilization of defectives, including criminals.
[01:16:20]  Under his advisement, the Michigan state legislature passed Public Act 34, which authorized the sterilization of, quote, defective persons.
[01:16:29]  Under this law, at least 3,800 people were involuntarily sterilized.
[01:16:33]  Want to guess when that law was repealed, Miles?
[01:16:36]  Probably not to like the last 30 years, I'd imagine.
[01:16:39]  1974.
[01:16:40]  Right, exactly.
[01:16:41]  I guess we did better than you thought.
[01:16:42]  Yeah.
[01:16:43]  What the?
[01:16:44]  Yeah, because it's so, I mean, again, that's another thing that look how long that fucking takes.
[01:16:49]  Like something that's so on its face disgusting that it's like, yeah, oh yeah, we should probably stop doing that.
[01:16:56]  But then also thinking of how like even, you know, women and especially women of color are the pain thresholds are not taken seriously by doctors to this day.
[01:17:05]  And you think, oh, wow, because we were fucking yipping with Dr. Kornfuck over here.
[01:17:13]  Dr. Kornfuck.
[01:17:14]  I mean, I don't, I, I'm not enough, I'm not an expert on Dr. Kellogg, so I don't know if he ever, like, we talked a little earlier.
[01:17:20]  He definitely thought that if you are giving someone like a surgery to stop masturbation, you shouldn't use pain medication because it, it's a healthy punishment.
[01:17:28]  I, I wonder if maybe some of the belief that you don't need to give black people the same amount of painkillers was rooted in that idea too.
[01:17:37]  That idea of like, well, if they're unhealthy, it's their fault and we should correct them by not, I have no idea.
[01:17:43]  Or it's just a habit that becomes like a cultural norm within medicine with no examination of what that actually means.
[01:17:50]  It's like, that's why it takes people so long to fucking like stop for a second and look at your patterns and be like, oh, shit, where's this from?
[01:17:58]  What does this mean?
[01:17:59]  But so many people are unwilling to do that.
[01:18:01]  Yep.
[01:18:02]  I mean, it's one of those things.
[01:18:03]  And it gets so deeply because like black doctors under-prescribe painkillers to black patients.
[01:18:09]  Just like black cops, when they do these, like they'll have these games where like you have to shoot someone who there's like a bunch of people flash on the screen.
[01:18:17]  Some have guns, some don't.
[01:18:18]  Black cops are more likely to shoot unarmed black people like than they are unarmed white people.
[01:18:23]  It's just like that's how it works.
[01:18:25]  Mental colonization and internalized white supremacy.
[01:18:28]  You know what I mean?
[01:18:29]  That's what it does.
[01:18:30]  That's how fucking pervasive it is.
[01:18:33]  Yep.
[01:18:34]  Yep.
[01:18:35]  The conferences that Dr. Kellogg held were bizarre affairs.
[01:18:38]  One featured Booker T. Washington, who gave a speech on the Negro race to a white audience, where he begged for equal treatment and argued for the common humanity of all men.
[01:18:47]  At the same event, John Harvey Kellogg said this.
[01:18:50]  If the human race is degenerating, then we should know it.
[01:18:54]  We should let the people know and we should see what ought to be done about it.
[01:18:58]  Okay, this isn't climate change, motherfucker.
[01:19:00]  Yeah, no, I bet it wouldn't have believed in climate change.
[01:19:03]  Wait, he said the other thing before that?
[01:19:05]  Yeah, he said that before Booker T. Washington got on.
[01:19:08]  So Booker T goes on his friend.
[01:19:12]  Yeah.
[01:19:12]  And gives a speech that seems to have mostly been about being like, hey, if you like help black people out, we can contribute to society.
[01:19:22]  We're Americans too.
[01:19:23]  We want to contribute to the country, but we need to not be as horribly abused by the system as we currently are.
[01:19:30]  Right, because y'all aren't past slavery still.
[01:19:33]  So we're still getting this version.
[01:19:35]  Yeah.
[01:19:36]  And that was the same thing where, I mean, I guess he got booked by Kellogg, but Kellogg went on to talk about like, we have to talk about racial degeneracy and race poison and race mixing.
[01:19:46]  It's weird.
[01:19:47]  Like I said, he's a weird kind of racist, but he's definitely a racist.
[01:19:50]  Yeah, because he's just all over the place.
[01:19:52]  But he's just like, because he's just, he's a concern troll racist.
[01:19:56]  And he's, yeah, there's some ways, now that you mentioned that, where he is a lot like the modern racist who'll be like, well, no, I have, look at my black friend.
[01:20:02]  Like, I'm advocating against white genocide, but I have, I'm friends with Ali Alexander or whoever.
[01:20:07]  Like, like, yeah, maybe, maybe he was just the first, like, really post-Nazi white supremacist.
[01:20:13]  Yeah.

=== Saving the White Race (04:03) ===

[01:20:14]  First guy to figure it out.
[01:20:14]  He's like, no, no, no, you can't do all that.
[01:20:16]  You can't say look at that.
[01:20:17]  You got to be nice about it.
[01:20:19]  You got to be like, no, all I'm saying is maybe the white race is degenerating.
[01:20:26]  Okay.
[01:20:27]  And maybe we need to look at that.
[01:20:29]  And then maybe then we can figure out what to do about that.
[01:20:33]  I don't know.
[01:20:33]  I don't know.
[01:20:34]  I'm just saying.
[01:20:35]  What do I know?
[01:20:36]  I'm a fucking just demonic fuck.
[01:20:39]  And I will say there were other eugenicists in this period who were not Nazis who were saying similar things.
[01:20:44]  So I'm not going to say Kellogg was the first person, but he definitely, like now that I, the more I think about it, the more his racism feels extremely modern to me, if that makes sense.
[01:20:54]  Yeah.
[01:20:55]  You're right.
[01:20:57]  The first race betterment conference, which is what these events were called, included a better babies contest where 5,000 children were inspected, measured, and judged based on their purported racial characteristics.
[01:21:13]  Wait.
[01:21:14]  Someone listening is going to have a great grandparent who won the Better Babies contest.
[01:21:19]  And I am excited to learn that.
[01:21:22]  Like a fucking Westminster Abbey dog show?
[01:21:25]  Yeah, it seems like it.
[01:21:26]  Like, it's, you know what it sounds kind of like is that I think you should leave sketch where they have the baby of the year award.
[01:21:34]  Yeah.
[01:21:35]  But you're saying they're using, but it was all kinds of different races of babies.
[01:21:40]  Yeah, where they were like assessed based on how well they right.
[01:21:43]  So like a dog show.
[01:21:45]  So there's a breed of babies.
[01:21:46]  Yeah, there's a breed of human beings.
[01:21:48]  Based on my physiognomy chart here, this is what this is.
[01:21:52]  He's got the perfect Nordic lips.
[01:21:54]  Yeah.
[01:21:55]  Yeah.
[01:21:55]  What the fuck?
[01:21:57]  Yeah.
[01:21:57]  The conference was a huge success, which convinced Kellogg that he needed to host the next one on the West Coast because eugenics didn't really catch on on the West Coast the same way it did on the East Coast, which I guess is good for the West Coast.
[01:22:10]  Yeah.
[01:22:11]  Congratulations, California.
[01:22:15]  We just have, yeah, again, that's a different racism on the list.
[01:22:18]  The bar is low.
[01:22:20]  It's a little bit different here.
[01:22:20]  It's still, you know, same brand.
[01:22:22]  It's a different style.
[01:22:24]  The conference was hosted in San Francisco, and it was part of a wider effort by Kellogg to inculcate his eugenic ideas throughout the nation.
[01:22:30]  As time went on, he grew into more of a hardliner, increasingly committed to sterilization and segregation.
[01:22:37]  Gradually, he fell behind the times, due largely to a little thing called World War II.
[01:22:42]  Coming face to face with Nazi ideology, which was inspired in large part by American eugenicists like Kellogg, led to a collapse in American support for eugenics.
[01:22:52]  You see the Nazis doing Nazi shit saying the same thing American eugenicists are, and suddenly a lot of people are like, oh, you know what?
[01:22:58]  Wait, maybe this is bad.
[01:23:00]  Wait.
[01:23:01]  Wait a second.
[01:23:02]  Hey, man, this you?
[01:23:03]  This you?
[01:23:04]  It looks like this ends with people in ovens.
[01:23:07]  Oh, my God.
[01:23:08]  I should reconsider some things.
[01:23:10]  Maybe if we just look around, our race is deteriorating, and maybe there's a problem we need a solution to.
[01:23:21]  I'm just saying.
[01:23:23]  You know what I mean?
[01:23:24]  Seems like it inevitably leads there.
[01:23:26]  Now, Harvey Kellogg was also a very old man by the outbreak of the war, but Nazism did not change his opinions on eugenics whatsoever.
[01:23:34]  He grew only more convinced that Christian civilization was at risk and that the white races were on the edge of genocide.
[01:23:40]  He wrote in 1942 that he believed God, quote, working through eugenics and the Margvalis germplasm, which is like sperm, may save the race and even improve it.
[01:23:50]  So he had faith that eventually people would figure out how to save the white race.
[01:23:54]  Kellogg was in the middle of planning.
[01:23:56]  Capitalism.
[01:23:59]  He was in the middle of planning his fourth race betterment conference set for June of 1942 when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor.
[01:24:07]  The conference was canceled, and so too was John Harvey Kellogg's own life.
[01:24:11]  He died on December 14th in Battle Creek, Michigan.
[01:24:15]  He died, of course, a virgin.

=== Filthy Kellogg Porn (10:19) ===

[01:24:17]  Despite being married for more than 40 years, John Harvey Kellogg bragged that he had never actually consummated his marriage.
[01:24:22]  So if I had to pick one purely good thing about his life, I'd say at least he didn't breed.
[01:24:29]  Wow, true.
[01:24:31]  But fuck, if he didn't completely fuck up a lot of kids.
[01:24:37]  Generations.
[01:24:38]  Amazing.
[01:24:40]  One of the worst people we've ever talked about.
[01:24:42]  When is there, like, you know, some kind of reckoning?
[01:24:45]  Do they just say, oh, it's actually named after his brother?
[01:24:48]  You can go to any grocery store in the country and see his name all over the fucking place.
[01:24:52]  You know what I mean?
[01:24:53]  I guess you can also think that his brother hated him, and he would have hated the fact that those are now filled with sugar.
[01:24:58]  So I guess that's good.
[01:24:59]  Like, John Harvey Kellogg would be horrifically disgusted by the fact that his legacy is now incredibly sugar, like candy for children to eat in the morning.
[01:25:09]  And masturbation is through the roof.
[01:25:12]  And masturbation is at an all-time high.
[01:25:16]  If he thinks sleeping comfortably and eating spice, you know what?
[01:25:20]  Tonight, I'm going to eat the hottest fucking thing I can imagine.
[01:25:24]  Masturbate on the most comfortable bed.
[01:25:27]  Yeah.
[01:25:28]  All of you at home, come and curry in order to really, really fully shame Dr. James Hart.
[01:25:35]  Break his undead spirit.
[01:25:36]  Eat spice, come hard.
[01:25:39]  Eat spice.
[01:25:41]  That's a t-shirt.
[01:25:42]  His spice.
[01:25:42]  There you go.
[01:25:43]  You're welcome.
[01:25:43]  Eat spice, come hard.
[01:25:45]  Exactly.
[01:25:46]  Big middle finger to him.
[01:25:48]  Can we put cum on a t-shirt, Sophie?
[01:25:50]  That's a loaded question.
[01:25:52]  Loads.
[01:25:55]  I feel like we've done worse already, so why not?
[01:25:59]  I think we do it.
[01:26:00]  Eat spice, come hard.
[01:26:01]  John Harvey Kellogg.
[01:26:02]  Exactly.
[01:26:02]  And now, and now, because I think that's the next thing is cum is an accepted thing on a shirt.
[01:26:07]  It has to be.
[01:26:08]  That's how that's our little act of rebellion against John Harvey Kellogg.
[01:26:12]  If I had a time machine, top of my list now would be to get like to archive a bunch of Red Tube videos along with information on how many hundreds of millions of views that it gets in a year and just present those both to like, hey, John, in the future, more people than exist on the world right now are masturbating on just this one website, buddy.
[01:26:32]  You lose that war.
[01:26:33]  And I would bring a fucking, like a military foot locker filled with sex toys.
[01:26:39]  Yeah.
[01:26:39]  Yeah.
[01:26:39]  Just I'd be like, first of all, dude, this thing, this is a tenga.
[01:26:44]  You ever heard of a tenga?
[01:26:45]  All right, so this is from Japan.
[01:26:47]  You might remember them from Pearl Harbor.
[01:26:49]  So they got, so this is some really sick technology.
[01:26:53]  This is another one.
[01:26:54]  You can use your app.
[01:26:55]  Oh, hold on.
[01:26:55]  I've even shown you the VR goggles yet, motherfucker.
[01:26:58]  Like, who knows?
[01:27:00]  It's just.
[01:27:01]  Yeah.
[01:27:01]  This is a plastic butt that people make just to have sex with.
[01:27:04]  You can buy it.
[01:27:06]  But there's two different stores that sell them within walking distance of my house.
[01:27:10]  You can, if you want to, make a mold of your genitals and have it replicated millions of times like a fucking, you know, like the Gutenberg press.
[01:27:22]  You know what people did with the Bible in your day?
[01:27:26]  They do it with genitals in the future.
[01:27:29]  People are so horny, John Harvey, that when a boat got stuck in the Suez Canal, you know the Suez Canal hobby.
[01:27:35]  It's new in your day.
[01:27:36]  When a boat got stuck in it, people immediately turned the boat in the porn.
[01:27:40]  Yeah.
[01:27:40]  Just straight off the bat, John Harvey.
[01:27:43]  That's how it works.
[01:27:44]  Yeah, it's funny.
[01:27:45]  When you search Kellogg's for the Wikipedia page, it's Will Keith Kellogg, which makes sense because he did steal the idea.
[01:27:52]  But then they can't avoid in the first sentence that it is his brother, John Harvey Kellogg, became blah, So yeah, what a fucking, you know, it's like everything.
[01:28:01]  There's so many corporate, like, just like every fucking bank, you know, has had to deal in slave money, but we're just bank at some point supported the Nazis pretty much.
[01:28:10]  Yeah, just like, what do you, you know, like, this is where we're at.
[01:28:13]  That they can be like, oh, no, it's a long look.
[01:28:14]  It's just a serial now, but.
[01:28:16]  Yeah.
[01:28:17]  I mean, in some ways, you could, you could say that Kellogg's legacy is less fucked up than the banks because there was a split over like the reason the Kellogg's company became what it is is his brother fucking hated him.
[01:28:29]  Right.
[01:28:29]  So that's good.
[01:28:30]  Yeah.
[01:28:31]  Yeah.
[01:28:32]  Anyway.
[01:28:33]  Yeah.
[01:28:34]  What's JP Morgan?
[01:28:35]  What's his, what's John Peer Morgan's brother like?
[01:28:39]  Oh, I don't know.
[01:28:40]  But did he have a brother?
[01:28:41]  JP Morgan Jr. was a big part of the fascist attempt to overthrow FDR.
[01:28:46]  The business bottom.
[01:28:47]  Yeah.
[01:28:47]  What a time.
[01:28:48]  What a time.
[01:28:49]  Good times.
[01:28:50]  We're happy by all.
[01:28:51]  And again, you have a bunch of people in their own way found their own attempt to try and steer the whatever the fucking course was of this country based on these fucked up ideas they had.
[01:29:02]  Yep.
[01:29:03]  Yikes.
[01:29:04]  A lesson to be learned, perhaps.
[01:29:06]  Yep.
[01:29:07]  You know, Miles?
[01:29:10]  I guess if I had one last request for our listeners, I know a few of you are great artists.
[01:29:16]  What we could really use is some just filthy John Harvey Kellogg themed pornography.
[01:29:23]  Just absolutely depraved.
[01:29:25]  And by depraved, I mean him having missionary style sex with the woman he was married to for decades.
[01:29:32]  It's him masturbating by candlelight.
[01:29:35]  Yeah.
[01:29:35]  John Harvey Kellogg masturbating by candlelight to, I don't know, the crucible.
[01:29:43]  What a fucking bastard.
[01:29:45]  You've done it again, Robert.
[01:29:46]  You've done it again.
[01:29:47]  How you doing, Miles?
[01:29:48]  Feeling okay?
[01:29:50]  How you doing, Sophie?
[01:29:51]  I hate my life.
[01:29:54]  This was a rough one, right?
[01:29:56]  This was a real bad one.
[01:29:58]  Yeah, I mean, but you know, this is again, these are the things I think that's, that's the benefit of this show.
[01:30:03]  You know, like, yeah, if you have to really look back and know how bad shit was, truly, to be able to give yourself some context.
[01:30:12]  You know what I mean?
[01:30:13]  And to know, like, how people move and operate and the social forces they use to justify and popularize their methods.
[01:30:21]  Yep.
[01:30:22]  And I, I don't know, some great news just on that front today.
[01:30:25]  For the first time, Gallup Poll just reviewed U.S. membership in a church synagogue or mosque has fallen below 50%.
[01:30:31]  Only 36% of millennials belong to a church.
[01:30:35]  And of course, the drop in religious affiliation is directly correlated with the rise in support for same-sex marriage.
[01:30:42]  And one has to assume the rise in support for masturbating.
[01:30:45]  Yeah, exactly.
[01:30:46]  We're a generation come.
[01:30:48]  Yeah, generation come.
[01:30:55]  That's the t-shirt.
[01:30:56]  John Harvey Kellogg masturbating to the crucible by Candlelight with Generation Come right on.
[01:31:01]  That's busy or just some dog text.
[01:31:05]  Generation come.
[01:31:08]  Oh, let's make it happen, people.
[01:31:10]  All right.
[01:31:10]  Well, Miles, you got any pluggables?
[01:31:13]  No, man.
[01:31:14]  Just check out the podcast, Daily Zeitgeist.
[01:31:17]  And also, look, if you want something that isn't tied to maybe the news and politics, check out the other podcast, 420 Day Fiancé.
[01:31:25]  We talk about 90-day fiancé, but you know, like hi.
[01:31:30]  So, yeah, just chill.
[01:31:32]  With Sophie Alexandra, you know, one of your fan favorites.
[01:31:37]  Yeah, we love Sophia.
[01:31:39]  I'm glad that it was you and not her on yet another horrible child abuse episode because that would have been a war crime.
[01:31:46]  Yeah, absolutely.
[01:31:49]  All right.
[01:31:50]  Well, we're done with the episode.
[01:31:52]  Go stare blankly into the setting sun and try not to think about all of the horrible things that John Harvey Kellogg did in the name of medicine.
[01:32:02]  Eat spice come hard.
[01:32:04]  Eat spice come hard.
[01:32:16]  When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands.
[01:32:24]  I vowed I will be his last target.
[01:32:27]  He is not going to get away with this.
[01:32:29]  He's going to get what he deserves.
[01:32:31]  We always say that, trust your girlfriends.
[01:32:35]  Listen to the girlfriends.
[01:32:37]  Trust me, babe.
[01:32:38]  On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[01:32:47]  In 2023, bachelor star Clayton Eckard was accused of fathering twins, but the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax.
[01:32:55]  You doctored this particular test twice, Miss Owens, correct?
[01:32:58]  I doctored the test once.
[01:33:00]  It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern.
[01:33:05]  Two more men who'd been through the same thing.
[01:33:07]  Greg Gillespie and Michael Mancini.
[01:33:09]  My mind was blown.
[01:33:10]  I'm Stephanie Young.
[01:33:12]  This is Love Trapped.
[01:33:13]  Laura, Scottsdale Police.
[01:33:15]  As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.
[01:33:20]  Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[01:33:27]  10-10 shots five, city hall building.
[01:33:30]  How could this ever happen in City Hall?
[01:33:32]  Somebody tell me that.
[01:33:34]  A shocking public murder.
[01:33:35]  This is one of the most dramatic events that really ever happened in New York City politics.
[01:33:41]  They screamed, get down, get down.
[01:33:43]  Those are shots.
[01:33:45]  A tragedy that's now forgotten and a mystery that may or may not have been political.
[01:33:50]  That may have been about sex.
[01:33:52]  Listen to Rorschach, murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app.
[01:33:56]  Apple Podcasts are wherever you get your podcasts.
[01:34:02]  I'm Laurie Siegel, and this is Mostly Human, a tech podcast through a human lens.
[01:34:06]  This week, an interview with OpenAI CEO Sam Altman.
[01:34:09]  I think society is going to decide that creators of AI products bear a tremendous amount of responsibility to the products we put out in the world.
[01:34:16]  An in-depth conversation with the man who's shaping our future.
[01:34:20]  My highest order bit is to not destroy the world with AI.
[01:34:23]  Listen to Mostly Human on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
[01:34:32]  This is an iHeart podcast.
[01:34:34]  Guaranteed human.