Behind the Bastards - How Pat Buchanan, Secret Nazi, Paved The Way For Donald Trump
Aired: 2019-07-11
Duration: 01:14:34


=== Trust Your Girlfriends (03:30) ===

[00:00:00]  This is an iHeart podcast.
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[00:00:04]  When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands.
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[00:00:15]  He is not going to get away with this.
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[00:00:42]  My dad gave me the best advice ever.
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[00:00:53]  If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration.
[00:00:56]  It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat just hang in there.
[00:01:03]  Yeah, it would not be.
[00:01:05]  Right, it wouldn't be that.
[00:01:06]  There's a lot of life.
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[00:01:15]  In 2023, bachelor star Clayton Eckard was accused of fathering twins, but the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax.
[00:01:22]  You doctored this particular test twice, Miss Owens, correct?
[00:01:26]  I doctored the test once.
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[00:01:32]  Two more men who'd been through the same thing.
[00:01:34]  Greg Goespie and Michael Mancini.
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[00:01:43]  As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.
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[00:01:55]  10-10 shots five, City Hall building.
[00:01:58]  How could this have happened in City Hall?
[00:01:59]  Somebody tell me that.
[00:02:00]  Jeffrey Woods.
[00:02:01]  A shocking public murder.
[00:02:03]  This is one of the most dramatic events that really ever happened in New York City politics.
[00:02:09]  They screamed, get down, get down.
[00:02:11]  Those are shots.
[00:02:13]  A tragedy that's now forgotten.
[00:02:15]  And a mystery that may or may not have been political.
[00:02:18]  That may have been about sex.
[00:02:19]  Listen to Rorschach, murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app.
[00:02:23]  Apple Podcasts are wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:02:32]  What?
[00:02:33]  Surprisingly learning that your family members supported anti-Semitic politicians.
[00:02:39]  My me.
[00:02:41]  I'm Robert Evans, host of Behind the Bastards.
[00:02:44]  This was another trademark.
[00:02:46]  Terrible opening.
[00:02:47]  Perfect.
[00:02:48]  Perfect.
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[00:02:50]  The batter, the better.
[00:02:53]  My guests are, as with probably the one that came before this in this week, Cody Jarson, who gets his dogs.
[00:02:59]  Yes, it is.
[00:03:00]  We are indeed those people.
[00:03:02]  That's true.
[00:03:03]  Wowie.
[00:03:04]  And today's episode, working title, is Pat Buchanan, my dad's favorite Nazi.
[00:03:10]  Perfect title.
[00:03:11]  What do you mean, working title?
[00:03:12]  No, this is some blue harvest nonsense.
[00:03:14]  No, we're calling it that.
[00:03:16]  I love it.
[00:03:16]  Yeah.
[00:03:18]  So, how are y'all doing today?
[00:03:19]  The same day that we recorded the episode on Free Speech Grifting.
[00:03:22]  Still well.
[00:03:23]  Slightly more tired, but a little more tired, but my dog's at a questionable daycare facility at the moment.
[00:03:30]  We'll see how it goes.

=== Pat Buchanan Nazi Title (15:23) ===

[00:03:31]  I keep thinking about him.
[00:03:31]  But other than that, I'm great.
[00:03:33]  Yeah, but you know, it's good for character.
[00:03:35]  Yeah, I guess.
[00:03:36]  He's a little dog, and they popped him in.
[00:03:37]  And I was like, great.
[00:03:38]  And I peeked in the window where they popped him in.
[00:03:40]  It's exclusively big dogs.
[00:03:42]  And little Benny was like in the corner, unhappy.
[00:03:45]  Yeah, just like shocked at what his world has become.
[00:03:48]  I felt like I betrayed him or something.
[00:03:51]  That reminds me of the time that I got dropped off at kindergarten, but it turned out it was actually Brandeis University.
[00:03:57]  What?
[00:03:58]  Yeah, it was.
[00:04:00]  It was quite the comedy of errors.
[00:04:03]  Anyway, I wound up being the dean.
[00:04:05]  Wow.
[00:04:05]  Congratulations.
[00:04:06]  Thank you.
[00:04:06]  That's a nice one.
[00:04:07]  Thank you.
[00:04:07]  Big step up.
[00:04:08]  That was very nice.
[00:04:09]  That's what you were expecting.
[00:04:10]  Yeah.
[00:04:10]  You've had quite a life.
[00:04:11]  I have had quite a life.
[00:04:12]  Yeah.
[00:04:13]  Yeah.
[00:04:14]  So, you guys are going to talk about Pat Buchanan.
[00:04:16]  It's Pat time.
[00:04:17]  It's Pat.
[00:04:19]  Whenever I hear his name, I think it's Pat.
[00:04:21]  Oh, boy.
[00:04:21]  And that's especially appropriate because if there's one thing Pat Buchanan hates, it's the concept of gender ambiguity.
[00:04:27]  Yes.
[00:04:29]  Other than that, what do you all know about P-Buke?
[00:04:32]  Pea-Buck.
[00:04:33]  Not much.
[00:04:33]  Pea-Buck.
[00:04:34]  Not much.
[00:04:35]  I mean, I know I've read some of his work.
[00:04:39]  His work?
[00:04:39]  Yeah.
[00:04:40]  His name comes up often when reading about the topic of cultural Marxism.
[00:04:46]  Which you do.
[00:04:47]  Which I do.
[00:04:48]  I would probably call him like, not the godfather, but the godfather part two of that idea.
[00:05:00]  He's an evangelical type of...
[00:05:04]  We'll talk about what he is.
[00:05:07]  Patrick Joseph Buchanan was born on November 2nd, 1938.
[00:05:14]  His father was a partner in an accounting firm, and his mother was a nurse.
[00:05:17]  He was one of nine children, six brothers, two sisters.
[00:05:20]  He was born in D.C., where his family lived, but his family had most of its roots in Mississippi.
[00:05:25]  Pat's grandfather fought for the Confederacy during that whole thing.
[00:05:31]  I wrote kerfuffle, but I used that in the previous episode.
[00:05:34]  I use it too many times because I like it.
[00:05:36]  It's a good word.
[00:05:36]  It's a good word.
[00:05:37]  I was shocked to realize it's an actual word.
[00:05:39]  Really?
[00:05:40]  Yeah, kerfuffle's a word.
[00:05:41]  If you spell out the ball.
[00:05:42]  Oh, I meant that you were shocked.
[00:05:43]  I was shocked.
[00:05:44]  Yeah.
[00:05:44]  Yeah.
[00:05:45]  Now, Pat grew up proud of his Confederate roots and would later join the Sons of Confederate veterans.
[00:05:50]  Heritage not hate.
[00:05:52]  As a young boy, Buchanan's heroes were right-wing politicians, Senator Joseph McCarthy and Francisco Franco.
[00:05:58]  Wow.
[00:05:59]  Oh, you laughed at the first one.
[00:06:01]  I didn't get into the second one.
[00:06:03]  Oh, okay.
[00:06:03]  Did you hear the second one?
[00:06:04]  I heard it.
[00:06:05]  I laughed over the second one.
[00:06:06]  Francisco Franco, the fascist dictator of Spain.
[00:06:10]  In a 2012 column for the Quad City Times, Buchanan would write off the carpet bombing of Guernica by Nazi planes supporting Franco as a minor crime compared to the aerial bombings that would come later, which is quite a take.
[00:06:23]  Not a hot take because it's a century later.
[00:06:25]  Yeah, it's pretty.
[00:06:27]  But a take.
[00:06:28]  That is a take.
[00:06:29]  That is a take.
[00:06:30]  That is a take a person could have.
[00:06:32]  It's not that bad that he annihilated that city from the air because look at all the worse annihilations of cities from the air.
[00:06:38]  Wow.
[00:06:39]  I never thought about it like that.
[00:06:40]  Thank you for contributing to the intellectual discourse, Matt Buchanan.
[00:06:43]  I never thought about other stuff.
[00:06:45]  He ends the column by noting, unlike Mussolini, Franco remained a non-belligerent in the World War, returned U.S. pilots who came down in Spain and agreed to a post-war alliance with the United States.
[00:06:55]  Non-intervention in the Spanish Civil War worked out just fine.
[00:06:59]  Okay, so that makes him okay.
[00:07:00]  Yeah, just fine.
[00:07:01]  Just fine.
[00:07:02]  I love all these people.
[00:07:04]  The problem with Mussolini was involved with Hitler.
[00:07:10]  The problem with Hitler is like, there's like globalism.
[00:07:13]  Oh, you're predicting where this is going to go.
[00:07:15]  Oh, no.
[00:07:19]  Anyway, yeah, he said the non-intervention in the Spanish Civil War worked out just fine.
[00:07:22]  For reference, the Francoist government is known to have killed, at minimum, around 110,000 people for crimes such as reading liberal newspapers and not supporting the military coup.
[00:07:30]  Many of those killed were literally flung from cliffs to their deaths.
[00:07:34]  The actual death toll from Franco's terror may be several hundred thousand, although due to the political nature of all of this, getting accurate death counts is a bit impossible.
[00:07:41]  But I would not describe that as working out just fine.
[00:07:49]  What if you compare it to other things, though?
[00:07:51]  We all have our opinions.
[00:07:54]  Yeah.
[00:07:55]  I do like to compare things to other things.
[00:07:57]  Like the other day, a friend of mine let me drive their car, and I was very drunk, and I crashed it into a retaining wall.
[00:08:03]  And it turned out their daughter was in the backseat.
[00:08:05]  And they got very angry about the fact that their car and their daughter are both no longer with us.
[00:08:09]  But, but, compared to the Holocaust, not that bad.
[00:08:14]  Not that bad.
[00:08:14]  I was about to get disgusted with you, but now I think thank you.
[00:08:20]  Compared to the Dresden air raids, I'm responsible for that.
[00:08:23]  That's a good way out of things.
[00:08:24]  I am going to use that.
[00:08:27]  Officer, I know it looks bad what I'm doing here with all this acid and all these firearms.
[00:08:32]  But have you considered comparing it to the Tet Offensive?
[00:08:36]  Not nearly as bad as the Tet Offensive, huh?
[00:08:39]  Might I cite serial murderers in a C-SPAN interview with Brian Lamb, Pat Buchanan would later recall, well, my father was very much an autocratic, very autocratic.
[00:08:53]  As I mentioned right from the beginning on an earlier book, his three political heroes were Joe McCarthy, General MacArthur, and General Francisco Franco of Spain.
[00:09:00]  The Catholic who finished off a communist.
[00:09:02]  He later wrote in his book, Right from the Beginning, that he adopted his father's heroes as his own, seeing them as men who were fighters, men who raged war relentlessly against the true enemy.
[00:09:13]  Funny thing to value.
[00:09:15]  Waging war relentlessly.
[00:09:18]  The true enemy.
[00:09:18]  The true enemy.
[00:09:19]  It's interesting to me, the different bits of that sentence that you both picked up on.
[00:09:23]  It really speaks to the differences in your personality.
[00:09:25]  It does, doesn't it?
[00:09:26]  It's compelling, yeah.
[00:09:27]  And our whole dynamic.
[00:09:28]  Interesting.
[00:09:30]  Everybody's learning a lot.
[00:09:32]  Now I'm feeling judged.
[00:09:34]  We're also all getting a lot of use out of this kind of way to approach some discourse.
[00:09:40]  Yeah.
[00:09:40]  Fun voice.
[00:09:41]  Maybe makes a point by not actually saying anything.
[00:09:44]  Yeah.
[00:09:44]  Just by the way, of course you do.
[00:09:48]  You've got to holmz it.
[00:09:51]  Pat was raised as a Catholic pre-Vatican II, which means he grew up with that old-time religion, elaborate Baroque ceremonies conducted entirely in ecclesiastic Latin.
[00:09:59]  One gets the feeling from other things he wrote that he wishes the church had stayed that way.
[00:10:04]  Buchanan graduated college with a degree in journalism and started his working career as an editorial writer with the St. Louis Globe Democrat.
[00:10:10]  He wrote vociferously against trade with communist Cuba, and in 1964 became a supporter of arch-conservative Barry Goldwater, the man who is the reason psychiatrists are not allowed to weigh in on the mental health of presidential candidates.
[00:10:25]  Yeah.
[00:10:26]  In 1966, he was hired as an opposition researcher for the Nixon campaign.
[00:10:30]  He gained the nickname Mr. Inside for dropping numerous Easter eggs in a Nixon speeches aimed at very far-right stalwarts in the party.
[00:10:38]  He was also a big advocate that conservatives should aim to be anti-establishment as a way to gain votes.
[00:10:44]  He coined the term silent majority during a speech he helped write for Nixon to address hundreds of thousands of anti-Vietnam protesters in October of 1969.
[00:10:53]  Yeah, very impressed by that.
[00:10:54]  Yeah.
[00:10:54]  I am very impressed by that.
[00:10:55]  That's good for him coining phrases that we all have.
[00:10:58]  That's a real work.
[00:10:59]  Look at that.
[00:11:00]  It's a good phrase.
[00:11:01]  Who wouldn't want to be part of a silent majority?
[00:11:03]  Who wouldn't want to be a part of a silent?
[00:11:04]  Two things I love, silence and majorities.
[00:11:07]  Yes.
[00:11:07]  Put them together.
[00:11:08]  Put them together.
[00:11:09]  You got a movement.
[00:11:10]  You got a movement.
[00:11:11]  That's very quiet.
[00:11:12]  Very quiet about this.
[00:11:13]  Why?
[00:11:15]  There's a ninja joke in there somewhere, but I didn't come up with it fast enough.
[00:11:18]  So somebody out there will work it out.
[00:11:20]  Yeah, you got it.
[00:11:21]  You got it.
[00:11:21]  You got it.
[00:11:22]  Tweet us your ninja jokes.
[00:11:24]  Your ninja joke about the silent majority.
[00:11:25]  Yeah.
[00:11:26]  As a nade in the Nixon White House, Pat Buchanan was a constant voice against racial integration.
[00:11:31]  The true enemy.
[00:11:32]  The true enemy.
[00:11:33]  Yes, well, he was talking about the true enemy.
[00:11:36]  According to the New Republic, in Right from the Beginning, which is a Pat Buchanan book, Buchanan describes how in the early 1960s he wrote editorials slamming the civil rights movement based on documents provided by the FBI.
[00:11:47]  Buchanan also argues that the segregated Washington he grew up in, where blacks were disenfranchised, was a better and more humane city than what it later became.
[00:11:56]  hearing a lot about that these days too.
[00:11:57]  Yeah.
[00:11:58]  About the humaneness of human beings being forced to use different water fountains.
[00:12:03]  Yeah.
[00:12:03]  Yeah.
[00:12:03]  How the communities and society was better because of segregation and actually integrating caused more problems than it addressed and solved.
[00:12:13]  I wonder if any of the people making that argument have ulterior motives.
[00:12:16]  I wonder.
[00:12:17]  I don't.
[00:12:18]  I know they do.
[00:12:20]  It sounds like something based purely in fact and science and studies.
[00:12:25]  Now, among other things, Pat Buchanan suggested his boss, the president, read an article in The Atlantic by Richard Herrnstein, a co-author of a little book you might have heard of called The Bell Curve.
[00:12:35]  No, not the Bell Jar.
[00:12:36]  Don't mistake the two.
[00:12:37]  I do not.
[00:12:38]  Because I do like to think of Nixon reading Sylvia Plath and having himself a good cry.
[00:12:44]  That's kind of fun to think about.
[00:12:45]  I hope he did.
[00:12:50]  This book made me cry.
[00:12:53]  Buchanan wrote in a memo to the president, basically, Herrnstein's article demonstrates that heredity rather than environment determines intelligence, and that the more we proceed to provide everyone with a good environment, surely the more heredity will become the dominant factor in their intelligence and thus in their success and social standing.
[00:13:10]  It is almost the iron law of intelligence that is being propounded here, based on heredity.
[00:13:14]  The importance of this article is difficult to understate.
[00:13:17]  If correct, then all our efforts and expenditures, not only for compensatory education, but to provide an equal chance at the starting line, are guaranteeing that we wind up with the intelligent ones coming in first.
[00:13:26]  And every study we have shows blacks 15 IQ points below whites on the average.
[00:13:31]  Pat Buchanan.
[00:13:34]  Okay.
[00:13:37]  Is that part of why Nixon started the EPA?
[00:13:40]  Oh, geez.
[00:13:41]  No, I don't think so.
[00:13:42]  Okay.
[00:13:42]  I don't think so.
[00:13:43]  I don't think that's what they're talking.
[00:13:44]  I think when they talk about environment, they're talking about the quality of the school.
[00:13:47]  Oh, yeah, no, I know.
[00:13:48]  I know.
[00:13:49]  But like, there's like...
[00:13:53]  If that's why Nixon created the EPA, that would be a actually shockingly progressive way to look at racist science.
[00:14:00]  Right.
[00:14:01]  Well, then we need to get the toxins out of this.
[00:14:03]  Right, we got to make sure that there'll be a weird loop for Nixon to...
[00:14:06]  I don't think that's the case, though, but I don't know anything about the founding of the EPA.
[00:14:10]  I don't want to like.
[00:14:12]  I think part of it was that they were upset with the liberal consensus that like, yeah, it doesn't matter.
[00:14:18]  Yeah.
[00:14:18]  We'll have to talk about that at a time when we know what the fuck we're talking about.
[00:14:22]  Unlike certain professor doctors who just love talking about things they know about.
[00:14:27]  See last episode.
[00:14:28]  See right previous episode.
[00:14:30]  And people calling themselves neuroscientists.
[00:14:32]  And evolutionary biologists.
[00:14:33]  When they're clinical psychologists.
[00:14:35]  Now, so yeah, as you might have guessed, Pat Buchanan had some attitudes towards the intelligence of black people.
[00:14:41]  Seems like it's like it.
[00:14:42]  Yeah.
[00:14:43]  His views on gay people were no more charitable.
[00:14:45]  He believed homosexuality led inevitably to the decay of society.
[00:14:49]  In 1977, he wrote this.
[00:14:51]  Homosexuality, then, is not some civil right.
[00:14:53]  In a healthy society, it will be contained, segregated, controlled, and stigmatized, carrying both a legal and social sanction.
[00:15:02]  Strong words, Pat.
[00:15:03]  Pee Buke.
[00:15:04]  Peebuck.
[00:15:05]  Put him in camps.
[00:15:06]  I mean, this is all proto-now.
[00:15:10]  Everything you say.
[00:15:10]  Yeah.
[00:15:12]  Pat Buchanan is proto-now.
[00:15:14]  That's a good way to look at this guy's.
[00:15:16]  Sounds like a Star Wars name.
[00:15:18]  It does sound like a Star Wars name.
[00:15:19]  It does.
[00:15:20]  Proto-Now.
[00:15:21]  Proto-Now.
[00:15:23]  After Nixon resigned in 1974, for reasons that nobody knows anything about, Buchanan took up a post as a special advisor to Gerald Ford.
[00:15:31]  He continued to write prolific opinion columns and make his voice heard within national politics.
[00:15:35]  Here's a quote from another piece he wrote in 1977.
[00:15:39]  Though Hitler was indeed racist and anti-Semitic to the core, though Hitler.
[00:15:45]  Though Hitler.
[00:15:46]  You know it's not going to go anywhere.
[00:15:49]  It's only because he was a globalist.
[00:15:51]  Well, not quite.
[00:15:53]  Not yet.
[00:15:54]  Yeah.
[00:15:54]  Though Hitler was indeed racist and anti-Semitic to the core, a man who without compunction would commit murder and genocide, he was also an individual of great courage, a soldier-soldier, a political organizer of the first rank, a leader steeped in the history of Europe who possessed oratorical powers that could awe even those who despised him.
[00:16:09]  Vomit.
[00:16:10]  What's the point?
[00:16:12]  Why is that worth like a broader thing?
[00:16:13]  It's like he's a rapist, but he cooks a good steak.
[00:16:17]  You gotta give him that.
[00:16:18]  No, I don't gotta give him anything.
[00:16:20]  No, it's because he doesn't.
[00:16:21]  He's like, I understand that he was racist and anti-Semitic.
[00:16:24]  I don't care.
[00:16:24]  Yeah.
[00:16:25]  It's like, yeah, he's like a monster and he did a lot of horrendous things, but at least he was able to rile everybody up.
[00:16:31]  He was a good soldier, like all the other good soldiers who didn't grow up to be Hitler.
[00:16:35]  My God.
[00:16:36]  He was all of those things, but he was a real man because he waged a relentless war against the enemy.
[00:16:43]  You know, Hitler, the only good speaker.
[00:16:45]  Yeah.
[00:16:47]  It's like, why do you need to, like, we all know Hitler was, like, it's one thing to say, like, Hitler was a soldier who performed adequately in combat.
[00:16:55]  Hitler was a rousing speaker.
[00:16:56]  It's another thing to, like, frame it this way where you're like, look, we all talk about the bad parts of Hitler, but let's give the guy some credit.
[00:17:03]  It's like he's saying, like, if this were a different era, he could be one of my heroes.
[00:17:07]  Yeah.
[00:17:07]  Right.
[00:17:08]  It's taking these like statements that you can make and turning them into compliments.
[00:17:12]  Right.
[00:17:13]  Like, why do you need to, why do you feel compelled to compliment Hitler?
[00:17:17]  You can observe the reality without making it a compliment.
[00:17:20]  Right.
[00:17:21]  It just, it feels like, yeah, it feels like it's a guy he admires, but the Holocaust happened.
[00:17:29]  Right.
[00:17:29]  He has to acknowledge that there were those things that he actually doesn't really care about.
[00:17:33]  I mean, and this is a phrase and viewpoint you see sort of spread out a lot now these days of like the idea that Hitler was good and right up until like 1933.
[00:17:46]  Yeah, there's always a point for the Hitler.
[00:17:48]  It's like, oh, he was good until this one date.
[00:17:51]  And like then it was all bad.
[00:17:52]  It's like, well, is that, is that?
[00:17:54]  Is that?
[00:17:55]  Maybe that year you're talking about was like being led up to and like maybe a lot of the things that happened like sort of it's just it's just wild.
[00:18:03]  And if you if you actually have, if you are someone with like an actual intellectual curiosity in when Hitler went bad, there's a good book called Explaining Hitler with just like his baby picture is like the cover of the book.
[00:18:14]  The whole book is about like, what the fuck happened here?
[00:18:16]  Right, right.
[00:18:17]  How do you get there?
[00:18:18]  Yeah.
[00:18:18]  That deals with all of the stuff that he's talking about without compliments.
[00:18:24]  Compliments of fucking Hitler.
[00:18:25]  Yeah.
[00:18:26]  Yeah.
[00:18:26]  I really recommend that book.
[00:18:28]  Yeah.
[00:18:29]  In the mid-1980s, Pat Buchanan became a television news commentator, working on a show called the Buchanan-Braden Program, where he argued with a token liberal.
[00:18:37]  It seems to have been a prototype of Fox's later hit show, Hannity and Combs.
[00:18:41]  Next, according to Blood and Politics by Leonard Zeskin, which another great fucking book.
[00:18:47]  By the mid-1980s, he had started waving the banner that became white nationalism's clarion call in the 21st century.
[00:18:52]  Quote from Buchanan.

=== Holocaust Denial Signs (06:44) ===

[00:18:54]  The central objection to the present flood of illegals, he wrote in 1984, is that they are not English-speaking white people from Western Europe.
[00:19:00]  They are Spanish-speaking brown and black people from Mexico, Latin America, and the Caribbean.
[00:19:04]  Buchanan even explicitly posed the question of whether the United States would remain a white nation.
[00:19:09]  Apparently, the descendants of Africans brought in chains, the mestizo population of the Southwest, and the Chinese laborers who built the railroads were either invisible to Buchanan's historical eye or not to be counted as natural citizens of the nation.
[00:19:19]  He also exhibited a nervous disbelief in the charges leveled against those believed to be war criminals.
[00:19:23]  At different times, he rose to defend Arthur Randolph, Carol Linnes, Kurt Waldheim, John Dimjanek, and others.
[00:19:30]  Those were all SS guys who went on trial.
[00:19:32]  In Dimjanek's case, Buchanan's skepticism of Justice Department actions ultimately proved justified on several key points of evidence.
[00:19:38]  Buchanan challenged more than just the rules of evidence used in cases against war criminals, however.
[00:19:42]  As an aide to President Reagan, he helped formulate a 1982 trip to the military graves at Bittberg, Germany.
[00:19:48]  At Buchanan's behest, Reagan memorialized the Waffen-SS along with ordinary Wehrmacht soldiers, setting off international protests at the honoring of Hitler's henchmen.
[00:19:57]  Buchanan added to the outrage when he claimed that Jews could not have been gassed by diesel engines at the Nazi concentration camp at Treblinka.
[00:20:03]  He was soon publicly and widely accused of giving aid and comfort to those like the Institute for Historical Review that maintained the Holocaust didn't happen.
[00:20:10]  So yeah, we got to some Holocaust denial here.
[00:20:13]  Now, Buchanan's support for having the president visit Waffen-SS graves brought him into conflict with Elie Wazelle, a Holocaust survivor, author of Night, and chairman of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Council.
[00:20:22]  Now, Wazelle thought that it was a bad idea for the president to lay wreaths on the graves of war criminals.
[00:20:28]  This deeply pissed off Pat Buchanan.
[00:20:30]  Other White House staffers report that he kept writing the phrase, succumbing to the pressure of the Jews in his notes during a meeting with Wiesel.
[00:20:38]  Oh, my God.
[00:20:39]  And again, these are other Republicans being like, he kept writing over and over again about the Jews in his meeting with this Holocaust survivor.
[00:20:46]  He's so furious that he just has to scribble this note out.
[00:20:50]  Punching holes in his notebook every time he fucking dots a J.
[00:20:54]  Yeah.
[00:20:54]  Oh my gosh.
[00:20:55]  A gross.
[00:20:56]  Pat.
[00:20:57]  Pat.
[00:20:58]  Chill out.
[00:20:59]  Fucking man.
[00:21:00]  It's Pat.
[00:21:02]  It's Pat.
[00:21:04]  Boy, so few of our listeners are going to get that joke.
[00:21:07]  You guys just have to go look up its Pat.
[00:21:08]  You just got to watch, what, 20-some years of Saturday Night Live?
[00:21:11]  Yeah, there's got to be some clip compilation.
[00:21:13]  Don't worry, it's a reference from 35 years ago.
[00:21:17]  It was a funny joke when my dad was a kid.
[00:21:20]  Yeah, it's before our time.
[00:21:22]  Let's not age ourselves.
[00:21:25]  Making copies.
[00:21:28]  Keep doing it.
[00:21:30]  Oh, boy.
[00:21:31]  Just on that note, I tried to show my little brother Wayne's World a couple of years ago.
[00:21:36]  Really hard to introduce the new generations to Wayne's world.
[00:21:41]  Yeah, you kind of had to be there.
[00:21:42]  Yeah, I guess, yeah, that makes sense.
[00:21:44]  Speaking of you had to be there, Pat Buchanan also started speaking about what he called a so-called Holocaust survivor syndrome, which, according to him, involved group fantasies of martyrdom and heroics.
[00:21:53]  Oh, my God.
[00:21:54]  Yeah.
[00:21:54]  Pat Buchanan, everybody.
[00:21:56]  Buchanan's big break with the Republican Party would come in the early 1990s when Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait and President George Bush I started beating the drums of war.
[00:22:03]  Now, Buchanan was very much an isolationist.
[00:22:05]  He sat down on the McLaughlin Report, then one of America's most influential political debate shows, and complained.
[00:22:12]  There are only two groups that are beating the drums for war in the Middle East, the Israeli Defense Ministry and its Amen Corner in the United States.
[00:22:19]  He later added that Israel was pushing America to expend the blood of its children in a proxy war.
[00:22:23]  The Israelis want this war desperately because they want the United States to destroy the Iraqi war machine.
[00:22:28]  They want us to finish them off.
[00:22:29]  They don't care about our relations with the Arab world.
[00:22:32]  Buchanan called Israel a strategic albatross draped across the neck of the United States.
[00:22:36]  He specifically blamed New York Times editor A.M. Rosenthal, Assistant Secretary of Defense Richard Pearl, columnist Charles Krauthammer, and Henry Kissinger for promoting the Gulf War.
[00:22:45]  You may note that all of those men are Jewish.
[00:22:48]  You may also note that Pat Buchanan's list of people in pushing America towards war with Iraq did not include any Gentiles, like, say, George H.W. Bush.
[00:22:56]  Good example.
[00:22:57]  Good example.
[00:22:57]  The president doing it.
[00:22:58]  The president doing it.
[00:23:00]  Peculiar.
[00:23:01]  Buchanan further complained in a column that Americans who would die in Iraq would be kids with names like McAllister, Murphy, Gonzalez, and Leroy Brown.
[00:23:11]  Wow.
[00:23:13]  Excuse me?
[00:23:15]  I'm not kidding you.
[00:23:16]  That's always ended that sound.
[00:23:19]  Leroy Brown.
[00:23:21]  What?
[00:23:22]  And I want to state right here, unequivocally, that I reject the idea that Leroy Brown could possibly have been defeated by the Iraq.
[00:23:29]  Because in case you are not aware, he was the baddest man in the whole damn town.
[00:23:34]  Madder than old King Kong and meaner than a junkyard dog.
[00:23:37]  Yeah.
[00:23:38]  I mean, that's who you want.
[00:23:39]  That's who you want going to fight.
[00:23:40]  Yeah.
[00:23:41]  Bad example, Pat.
[00:23:43]  Jesus Christ.
[00:23:44]  Like McAllister, Murphy, Gonzalez, and Lee.
[00:23:47]  They're all just talking.
[00:23:48]  Like, what the fuck, Bat?
[00:23:51]  Jesus.
[00:23:52]  Oh, the baddest man in the whole dang town.
[00:23:53]  The baddest man in the whole damn town.
[00:23:55]  Oh, God.
[00:23:58]  I do love Jim Crowse.
[00:24:00]  Just picks like three last names and then like.
[00:24:03]  It's one of those things where, like, I should be angrier, but this is literally the third reference to Jim Crow's songs that I've managed to work into one of my podcasts.
[00:24:11]  And I'm very proud of how many viewers I get to.
[00:24:13]  You're on a roll.
[00:24:13]  I am on a roll.
[00:24:14]  Yeah.
[00:24:15]  They just did the same song twice, and they're both fantastic.
[00:24:18]  Both just amazing songs.
[00:24:20]  Incredible.
[00:24:21]  Incredible.
[00:24:22]  Yeah.
[00:24:23]  Anyway, Buchanan's refusal to hold ranks with his fellow Republicans deeply pissed off other conservatives.
[00:24:28]  William F. Buckley, editor of the National Review, wrote an essay accusing Buchanan of anti-Semitism.
[00:24:32]  But these charges did not bring an end to Buchanan's career or his political relevance.
[00:24:37]  In fact, thanks to a little fellow named David Duke, he was about to become more prominent and influential than ever before.
[00:24:43]  Fuck you.
[00:24:48]  And there comes David Duke.
[00:24:49]  There he is.
[00:24:50]  There he is.
[00:24:50]  He just ran out of there every time we're here.
[00:24:54]  You guys need a racist?
[00:24:55]  I'm David Duke.
[00:24:56]  Don't you worry about it.
[00:24:58]  Sometimes I picture these as like little animated stories when you're telling it to me and right then I was and then he popped up like a little cartoon.
[00:25:05]  Pops right in.
[00:25:06]  I love him so much.
[00:25:07]  He looks like a lizard's ghost these days.
[00:25:10]  Every now and then I remember he was at fucking Charlottesville and like, god damn it, David Duke.
[00:25:16]  Like maybe it's a sign you shouldn't be there if David Duke shows up.
[00:25:20]  David Duke shows up.
[00:25:22]  But you know who is good when they show up?
[00:25:28]  The people who offer services and products.
[00:25:32]  I was gonna say that dang.
[00:25:34]  That's what's good is the products and services pointing the show.
[00:25:37]  I got it.
[00:25:37]  It's an ad pivot.

=== The Ad Pivot Moment (04:53) ===

[00:25:39]  I got it right.
[00:25:39]  The ad pivot.
[00:25:40]  I think we all won with products and services this fine.
[00:25:43]  We do all win.
[00:25:44]  Putucks.
[00:25:51]  There's two golden rules that any man should live by.
[00:25:55]  Rule one, never mess with a country girl.
[00:25:58]  You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes.
[00:26:01]  And rule two, never mess with her friends either.
[00:26:05]  We always say that, trust your girlfriends.
[00:26:08]  I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of The Girlfriends.
[00:26:12]  Oh my God, this is the same man.
[00:26:14]  A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist.
[00:26:19]  I felt like I got hit by a truck.
[00:26:21]  I thought, how could this happen to me?
[00:26:23]  The cops didn't seem to care.
[00:26:25]  So they take matters into their own hands.
[00:26:28]  I said, oh, hell no.
[00:26:29]  I vowed I will be his last target.
[00:26:32]  He's going to get what he deserves.
[00:26:36]  Listen to the girlfriends.
[00:26:38]  Trust me, babe.
[00:26:39]  On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:26:49]  I'm Laurie Siegel, and on Mostly Human, I go beyond the headlines with the people building our future.
[00:26:55]  This week, an interview with one of the most influential figures in Silicon Valley, OpenAI CEO Sam Altman.
[00:27:01]  I think society is going to decide that creators of AI products bear a tremendous amount of responsibility to products we put out in the world.
[00:27:08]  From power to parenthood.
[00:27:10]  Kids, teenagers, I think they will need a lot of guardrails around AI.
[00:27:13]  This is such a powerful and such a new thing.
[00:27:16]  From addiction to acceleration.
[00:27:18]  The world we live in is a competitive world, and I don't think that's going to stop, even if you did a lot of redistribution.
[00:27:22]  You know, we have a deep desire to excel and be competitive and gain status and be useful to others.
[00:27:29]  And it's a multiplayer game.
[00:27:32]  What does the man who has extraordinary influence over our lives have to say about the weight of that responsibility?
[00:27:38]  Find out on Mostly Human.
[00:27:40]  My highest order bit is to not destroy the world with AI.
[00:27:43]  Listen to Mostly Human on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
[00:27:51]  Hey, I'm Nora Jones, and I love playing music with people so much that my podcast called Playing Along is back.
[00:27:57]  I sit down with musicians from all musical styles to play songs together in an intimate setting.
[00:28:01]  Every episode's a little different, but it all involves music and conversation with some of my favorite musicians.
[00:28:07]  Over the past two seasons, I've had special guests like Dave Grohl, Leve, Mavis Staples, Remy Wolf, Jeff Tweedy, really too many to name.
[00:28:16]  And this season, I've sat down with Alessia Cara, Sarah McLaughlin, John Legend, and more.
[00:28:22]  Check out my new episode with Josh Grobin.
[00:28:25]  You related to the Phantom at that point.
[00:28:28]  Yeah, I was definitely the Phantom in that.
[00:28:30]  That's so funny.
[00:28:31]  Sherry stay with me each night, each morning.
[00:28:39]  Say you love me.
[00:28:42]  You know I.
[00:28:44]  So come hang out with us in the studio and listen to Playing Along on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:28:51]  What's up, everyone?
[00:28:52]  I'm Ego Modem.
[00:28:53]  My next guest, you know, from Step Brothers, Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network.
[00:29:01]  It's Will Farrell.
[00:29:04]  My dad gave me the best advice ever.
[00:29:07]  I went and had lunch with him one day, and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot.
[00:29:12]  I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings.
[00:29:15]  I'm working my way up through it.
[00:29:16]  I know it's a place they come look for up and coming talent.
[00:29:19]  He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet.
[00:29:24]  Yeah.
[00:29:24]  He goes, but there's so much luck involved.
[00:29:27]  And he's like, just give it a shot.
[00:29:29]  He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit.
[00:29:37]  If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration.
[00:29:40]  It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat.
[00:29:46]  Just hang in there.
[00:29:47]  Yeah, it would not be.
[00:29:49]  Right, it wouldn't be that.
[00:29:50]  There's a lot of luck.
[00:29:51]  Listen to Thanks Dad on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:30:01]  We're back!
[00:30:03]  That was great, though.
[00:30:04]  That was great.
[00:30:05]  I'm going to night break.
[00:30:06]  I'm going to buy them.
[00:30:06]  I'm going to buy it.
[00:30:08]  You're going to buy it?
[00:30:09]  I'm going to buy what it was.
[00:30:10]  I hope it was something that was a good chance it was dick pills or a Microsoft Surface tablet.
[00:30:17]  Either way, fine products.
[00:30:18]  I mean, I'd take a Microsoft Surface tablet.
[00:30:20]  Oh, man, Surface Books actually, what I read all of the episodes of this show on.
[00:30:24]  Great laptop.
[00:30:25]  I have one at one year.
[00:30:26]  And they really have one?
[00:30:29]  No, I'd like one.
[00:30:31]  Anywho.

=== Fascist Movement Politics (15:27) ===

[00:30:32]  Now, David Duke had become the grandmaster of the KKK in 1974.
[00:30:36]  His chief innovation was merging new progressive elements of neo-Nazism with the old stodgy racist traditions and terrorist habits of the KKK.
[00:30:43]  He's an innovator, Cody.
[00:30:44]  You got to respect it innovative.
[00:30:45]  Still ideas, you gotta, you gotta reinvigorate them.
[00:30:48]  This KKK, you got good bones.
[00:30:50]  You got good bones.
[00:30:51]  You just gotta do a little overhaul.
[00:30:53]  I just imagine a truck full of Klansmen hitting like a Panther tank.
[00:30:58]  You got Nazis in my Klansmen.
[00:31:01]  You got Klansmen in my Nazis.
[00:31:04]  You say your grandfather's kicking.
[00:31:08]  Oh, Christ.
[00:31:09]  This is KKK, and then it's like XXX.
[00:31:12]  Yeah.
[00:31:12]  Triple Extreme KKK.
[00:31:14]  Because that was necessary.
[00:31:16]  Now, Duke gained moderate infamy for running a Klan Border Watch.
[00:31:20]  And when he left the KKK in 1980, he formed the National Association for the Advancement of White People.
[00:31:27]  I mean, I don't know if you guys are paying attention, but in 1980, rough year just for a white guy.
[00:31:32]  Yeah, that was bad for white people.
[00:31:33]  Yeah, it was a rough time.
[00:31:34]  So I get it.
[00:31:35]  Thank God we moved past those days.
[00:31:37]  Yeah.
[00:31:37]  In 1989, he was elected as a representative in the Louisiana House of Representatives, winning 51% to 49%.
[00:31:44]  That's too much.
[00:31:44]  That's too much.
[00:31:46]  Yeah, so he got elected in Louisiana.
[00:31:50]  According to the Daily Beast, quote, Duke touted himself as a pro-life fiscal conservative, was known as an ex-Klan leader.
[00:31:55]  He eschewed overly racist language and instead pointed to crime in the city, criticizing affirmative action and minority set-asides.
[00:32:02]  See, by icksnaying on the racism just a little bit, not even a lot, just a scoosh, and emphasizing crime and focusing on his desire to shut down welfare and stop affirmative action, Duke was able to build a surprisingly strong coalition of voters for a guy who had literally marched in public wearing a Nazi uniform.
[00:32:19]  Good for him.
[00:32:20]  Good for him.
[00:32:22]  Duke continued to run for numerous positions during the late 1980s, including the U.S. Senate and the presidency.
[00:32:27]  He ran in 1992 as well, opposing President George H.W. Bush from the right as an isolationist, hammering him on taxation and on the Gulf War.
[00:32:34]  Since he'd won hundreds of thousands of votes in Louisiana, he was considered a real threat to Bush's chances since he was running as a member of the Populist Party and wouldn't need to drop out after primary season.
[00:32:44]  Now, Duke's campaign faltered, thankfully, as soon as he left Louisiana due to his inability to use the Republican Party staff members to aid his campaign that he'd used in Louisiana, and also due to the fact that Americans outside of Louisiana were less tolerant of a neo-Nazi presidential candidate.
[00:32:57]  To try and woo them, Duke focused on the an American first isolationist policy, urging withdrawal from NAFTA, protective tariffs, and an attack on multiculturalism and immigrant rights.
[00:33:07]  There it is.
[00:33:08]  There it is.
[00:33:09]  And of course, watching from the sidelines was our little buddy, Pat Buchanan.
[00:33:15]  Pat!
[00:33:15]  Pat, you're back.
[00:33:16]  Pat, you're back.
[00:33:17]  Now, he saw what Duke had managed to build, despite the handicap of being a literal Nazi, and realized, shit, if I dress this up, I can, like, I can take this lady out on the town.
[00:33:28]  Yeah, I can take it a step further.
[00:33:29]  Yeah, I can.
[00:33:30]  Good luck, Pat.
[00:33:31]  Yeah, good luck.
[00:33:32]  Good luck, Pat.
[00:33:32]  I think he's going to get himself up.
[00:33:34]  Yeah, go out.
[00:33:36]  Several weeks before Pat announced his own entrance to the campaign, he gave this advice to Republicans.
[00:33:42]  The way to do battle with David Duke is not to go ballistic because Duke as a teenager paraded around in a Nazi costume to protest William Kunstler during Vietnam or to shout to the heavens that Duke had the same phone number last year as the Ku Klux Klan.
[00:33:55]  Everybody in Med Area knows that.
[00:33:57]  The way to deal with Mr. Duke is the way the GOP dealt with the far more formidable challenge of George Wallace.
[00:34:02]  Take a hard look at Duke's portfolio of winning issues and expropriate those not in conflict with GOP principles.
[00:34:07]  Yep.
[00:34:07]  That's how you beat the literal fascist is take some ideas from him.
[00:34:12]  If you can't, etc.
[00:34:15]  Steal his ideas.
[00:34:16]  Do it.
[00:34:17]  Do what they say.
[00:34:19]  Now, during the Cold War, America's conservatives had literally been the opposite of isolationists, urging intervention all over the damn world in order to fight communism and make the world safe for, say, fruit companies.
[00:34:29]  After the fall of the USSR, the Republicans found themselves lashed briefly by chaos, unsure of where to swing next.
[00:34:35]  Buchanan essentially charted a new course for the American right, isolationism.
[00:34:40]  He wrote, In shaping post-Cold War foreign policy, the contest will be between acolytes of globalism and advocates of a new nationalism, America first.
[00:34:53]  I don't know why we're all snapping, but it feels right.
[00:34:56]  It feels right.
[00:34:57]  It feels right.
[00:34:58]  I love the things we do for this audio medium in which we work.
[00:35:02]  Got to keep it snappy.
[00:35:04]  I haven't found anything yet today.
[00:35:05]  I have not.
[00:35:06]  Well, no, I did.
[00:35:08]  In the last time.
[00:35:08]  I knocked the bottle across the thing.
[00:35:09]  You're right.
[00:35:10]  Today being whatever David is there.
[00:35:12]  So I'm going to take a quick break, and I've got a closed and mostly empty bottle of Kirkland brand purified water.
[00:35:19]  And I have my rusty machete, which I made sure was rusty before.
[00:35:22]  Of course, yeah.
[00:35:23]  It's rusty.
[00:35:23]  Trusty.
[00:35:24]  Well, it is trusty and rusty.
[00:35:25]  And I'm going to see if I can hit those lights on the roof.
[00:35:29]  Nope.
[00:35:30]  But that was a line drive.
[00:35:31]  It did go a lot further.
[00:35:32]  Farther than the can.
[00:35:33]  Farther than the can.
[00:35:35]  It's because there's a little water in it.
[00:35:38]  So America First, cool.
[00:35:39]  America First, cool.
[00:35:40]  Very cool.
[00:35:41]  Disagree, but go on.
[00:35:43]  Now, the Populist Party embraced Buchanan with even more vigor and hope than they'd embraced David Duke.
[00:35:48]  There was widespread fantasy among populists that Buchanan would leave the Republican Party and join them.
[00:35:53]  For reference, the Populist Party was founded by a fellow named Willis Cartow.
[00:35:57]  Have you guys ever heard of Willis Cartow?
[00:35:58]  No.
[00:35:59]  So, we're talking about fascists.
[00:36:02]  Talking about the fascist movement.
[00:36:04]  There's two branches of it.
[00:36:06]  Two big old brigety branches of it.
[00:36:09]  Now, you got your vanguardists.
[00:36:11]  Those are the guys who want to go all...
[00:36:12]  Those are the guys who want to go all Turner Dyers.
[00:36:14]  You're like, what if we just kill people until society collapses and then take over in an orgy of blood and violence?
[00:36:19]  And then you got your mainstreamers.
[00:36:20]  And those are the people who are like, what if we just convince all white people that being a Nazi is the way to go?
[00:36:26]  Willis Cartow was one of the convince all of the white people that being a Nazis is the way to go sort of dudes.
[00:36:34]  Now, Cartow was also the founder of a magazine called The Spotlight, which became America's Holocaust denial paper of record.
[00:36:40]  And also, its editor was a regular guest on Alex Jones' show during his early days.
[00:36:44]  Awesome.
[00:36:45]  Yeah, Big Jim Tucker.
[00:36:48]  Not surprising.
[00:36:52]  Go on.
[00:36:56]  According to Blood and Politics, quote, the populists argued that a realignment of the right was taking place via a melding of populism and national conservatism into a powerful new force.
[00:37:05]  On this point, the populists proved to be essentially correct in their analysis.
[00:37:08]  Among conservatives, Buchanan's opposition to Bush's war plans and the New World Order was not unique.
[00:37:13]  The significance of Buchanan's transformation should not be lost in the minutiae of petty party politics.
[00:37:18]  He still did not fully embrace a biological determinist view of society, but without any evident intervention by white supremacists, Pat Buchanan was talking and walking, much as they did.
[00:37:26]  In Republican ranks, Pat Buchanan formally announced his candidacy for president, reclaiming the party's right flank for his own anti-New World Order politics.
[00:37:35]  Just weeks before, Buchanan had urged Republicans to adopt Duke's issues.
[00:37:38]  Buchanan believed Duke's message was middle class, meritocratic, populist, and nationalist.
[00:37:44]  So which election was this?
[00:37:46]  93?
[00:37:46]  92.
[00:37:47]  92.
[00:37:48]  Yeah.
[00:37:48]  Yeah, the election that brought us Bill Clinton.
[00:37:51]  So, okay.
[00:37:52]  Yeah.
[00:37:53]  So, Buchanan did well enough to get on the ballot in most American states, and he ran a solid primary campaign.
[00:37:58]  Voters abandoned David Duke in droves to flock to a guy who was basically him, but without the baggage of all the swats to worn.
[00:38:05]  Buchanan drew in America's fascist right while also pulling in disaffected middle Americans by visiting factories and small-town diners in forgotten parts of the country.
[00:38:13]  On February 18th, Buchanan won 37% of the New Hampshire primary, losing to Bush but doing well enough to continue his campaign.
[00:38:20]  Now, David Duke quit the presidential race in April after running out of money and failing to win more than 11% in any state, Mississippi, if you're curious.
[00:38:28]  In the wake of this failure, Willis Carto's Spotlight noted that the center of gravity of the white nationalist movement had shifted towards Pat Buchanan.
[00:38:35]  Any hope Duke had of mounting an effective challenge to George Bush ended with the entrance of Buchanan into the Republican race.
[00:38:40]  Duke endorsed Pat after he withdrew, and Buchanan made the wise move of ignoring this, although, like another Republican a while later, he did not repudiate his endorsement either.
[00:38:49]  He won 36% of the vote in Georgia and 32% in Florida.
[00:38:53]  Buchanan's national support peaked in the low 20s, but began to subside in the early summer.
[00:38:58]  By the end of the primaries, he'd accrued nearly 3 million votes in 34 states and raised more than $14 million.
[00:39:04]  He did not win the primary, clearly.
[00:39:06]  But Carto and his fellow fascists saw Buchanan's campaign as a major win.
[00:39:10]  One Spotlight op-ed crooned, Buchanan is saying, practically to a word, what the spotlight has been saying on the big issues for many years.
[00:39:17]  Another thing the spotlight's famous for is being the Holocaust denial paper of record of the United States.
[00:39:22]  So that's the big issues.
[00:39:23]  The big issues.
[00:39:25]  The true enemy.
[00:39:26]  Yeah, the true enemy.
[00:39:27]  Interesting.
[00:39:28]  Like multiculturalism.
[00:39:30]  Also, the David Duke.
[00:39:35]  Isn't Steve Scalise describing himself as David Duke without the package?
[00:39:39]  Jesus Christ, did he?
[00:39:40]  I'm pretty sure he did.
[00:39:42]  Fucking Christ.
[00:39:43]  That's a nice pitch.
[00:39:44]  That phrase really stuck out to me when you said it.
[00:39:47]  I don't know.
[00:39:48]  Exactly the same, but people don't know that about me yet.
[00:39:50]  Exactly the same, but I don't own a swastika that you know of.
[00:39:53]  There are no pictures of me that I'm aware of.
[00:39:58]  I don't know.
[00:39:58]  I don't know much about Steve Scalise at all.
[00:40:01]  But I do know a lot about Pat Buchanan.
[00:40:03]  Oh, good.
[00:40:03]  I love Pat.
[00:40:04]  Now, as Buchanan's popularity became clear and clear, resistance from within the Republican Party lessened, and there was a growing consensus that he spoke for a large chunk of the conservative electorate.
[00:40:14]  One of Buchanan's chief thinkers was a dude named Sam Francis, who got his start writing briefing papers for the Heritage Foundation.
[00:40:21]  In the 1980s, he'd started writing for the Washington Times, which is basically a right-wing Washington Post.
[00:40:26]  According to Blood and Politics, it was Francis' prodigious intellect that propelled the Buchanan Braintrust, and at the vortex of this intellect swirled his conception of middle American radicals.
[00:40:35]  When Francis had written that Buchanan's middle American radicals represented new social forces, he didn't mean new as in Born Yesterday.
[00:40:42]  In fact, he had said much the same thing in 1981.
[00:40:45]  By his account, Middle American Radicals, or Mars, were the social constituency of what was then known as the New Right.
[00:40:51]  At that time, Francis argued that middle American radicals had expressed themselves in a string of movements throughout the 1970s, against school busing for racial integration, against the Equal Rights Amendment, against the seeding of the Panama Canal, and in finally in electing Ronald Reagan president.
[00:41:06]  Mars were both a social movement and a class, not simply a middle class and not simply an economic category, but in the broadest sense, a political class.
[00:41:14]  Francis declared that the Buchanan Revolution as the emergence of a new political identity that he believed would come to dominate right-wing politics in the future.
[00:41:22]  Marsians, as he called them, were anti-elite, opposed to black civil rights improvements, and, in his words, caught in the middle between those whose wealth gives them access to power and those whose militant organization gains special treatment from the government.
[00:41:35]  See what we're building here?
[00:41:37]  Sound like anything that comes later?
[00:41:39]  Doesn't sound new necessarily.
[00:41:43]  Hmm.
[00:41:44]  Yeah.
[00:41:47]  Yeah, three and some bells.
[00:41:48]  I don't know.
[00:41:48]  Yeah, yeah, maybe a little bit.
[00:41:50]  At the 1992 Republican Party Convention, President Bush bowed to the influence of Pat Buchanan by giving him a primetime speaking spot right before Ronald Reagan.
[00:41:58]  In his speech, Buchanan stated that a culture war within America had replaced the Cold War.
[00:42:03]  My friends, this election is about much more than who gets what.
[00:42:06]  It is about who we are.
[00:42:08]  It is about what we believe.
[00:42:09]  It is about what we stand for as Americans.
[00:42:11]  There is a religious war going on in our country for the soul of America.
[00:42:15]  It is a cultural war as critical to the kind of nation we will one day become as was the Cold War itself.
[00:42:22]  Yeah.
[00:42:23]  Cool.
[00:42:23]  Yeah, it is sounding familiar.
[00:42:25]  It is sounding a little familiar.
[00:42:26]  I can't wait.
[00:42:27]  Didn't he say that he paved the way for Donald Trump or something like that?
[00:42:31]  He sure did.
[00:42:32]  Yeah, okay.
[00:42:33]  Yeah, yeah, he sure did.
[00:42:34]  He also, sure did.
[00:42:35]  He also sure did.
[00:42:36]  He also sure did.
[00:42:37]  He's not wrong about that.
[00:42:39]  In 1996, Pat Buchanan ran as a Republican again, this time aimed at unseating Clinton rather than a sitting Republican president.
[00:42:45]  His popularity was immediately shocking to the Republican Party leadership.
[00:42:48]  Buchanan won the New Hampshire primary handily by focusing on his desire to stop foreign workers from entering the United States to undercut American salaries.
[00:42:57]  Buchanan won the highest percentage of New Hampshire voters concerned about jobs in the economy.
[00:43:01]  60% of his voters described themselves as very conservative and part of the religious right.
[00:43:05]  After Super Tuesday, a poll revealed that 54% of those who considered abortion their most important issue voted for Buchanan, along with 46% of those who were most concerned with immigration.
[00:43:16]  Now, Willis Cartow's Liberty Lobby, which was basically a pack for racists, and his newsletter, The Spotlight, endorsed Buchanan officially this time.
[00:43:25]  In their Republican Voters Guide, they noted that the wealthy and powerful American Jewish community, popularly known as the Jewish Lobby or the Israeli lobby, does not like Pat Buchanan and claimed his victory would constitute the greatest political revolution in history.
[00:43:41]  Okay.
[00:43:42]  Would have marked a pretty fucked up political revolution.
[00:43:49]  Yeah, it's not exactly the language I've used.
[00:43:51]  Yeah.
[00:43:53]  Now, Buchanan also earned the support of a group called the Council of Conservative Citizens.
[00:43:57]  Have you ever heard about those guys?
[00:43:58]  No.
[00:43:59]  They're a very far-right lobbying group.
[00:44:00]  They have a website that hosts articles, news articles, and including, it's still around this day.
[00:44:06]  And one of the very popular articles, types of articles that they like to host, focus on what they call black-on-white crime.
[00:44:12]  Yes.
[00:44:12]  And the Council of Conservative Citizens, interestingly enough, is the website that was cited by Dylan Roof in his manifesto as the thing that radicalized him into shooting up a black church in Chicago.
[00:44:21]  Interesting how these people read things and get radicalized.
[00:44:26]  Yeah, that is interesting.
[00:44:28]  Sort of hyper-focused topics that people choose to write about.
[00:44:35]  Didn't at one point Breitbart have a black crime depth?
[00:44:37]  Sure did.
[00:44:38]  Sure got rid of it.
[00:44:39]  Sure did have a black crime dev.
[00:44:40]  They got rid of it after all of the shooting.
[00:44:44]  Now, Buchanan also teamed up with Pat Robertson's Christian Coalition.
[00:44:47]  With all these far-right voters together, Pat was not able to beat Bob Dole, but he was able to force Dole and the Republican Party to harden their anti-abortion stances and add anti-immigrant planks to the platform demanding a change to the 14th Amendment.
[00:44:59]  Bob Dole seated on these issues, but refused to let Pat have a good speaking slot at the 1996 convention.
[00:45:05]  Brave.
[00:45:05]  Brave of you, Bob.
[00:45:06]  Way to stick it to him.
[00:45:08]  Thanks, Bob.
[00:45:09]  Stick it to the probable Nazis.
[00:45:12]  Speaking of dick pills.
[00:45:13]  Speaking of dick pills.
[00:45:14]  Yeah, Bob Dole and me, both trailblazers.
[00:45:17]  Buchanan's eventual caving to the Republican Party bummed out the white nationalists who had helped lead him to prominence.
[00:45:22]  Oh, no, they're bummed.
[00:45:24]  Yeah, alas.
[00:45:26]  He let him down.
[00:45:27]  He let his constituents down.
[00:45:29]  I love just the idea of bummed-out white nationalists.
[00:45:33]  Hear the spooky music.
[00:45:35]  Yeah, just like moping.
[00:45:36]  Kicking rocks in their Klan uniforms.
[00:45:40]  Oh, shook.
[00:45:41]  Yeah.
[00:45:42]  They'd expected and urged him to walk out of the convention rather than yield to the mainstream, free trade-loving, non-concentration camp supporting moderates of the Republican Party.
[00:45:50]  One Ohio Klansman ruefully lamented, in the history of presidential politics, 1996 will go down as the year that Pat Buchanan cast away the political opportunity of a lifetime.

=== Bummed White Nationalists (06:14) ===

[00:46:00]  He raised and spent some 30 million, yet what is there in the end to show for all this?
[00:46:05]  1996 would prove to be the high watermark of Pat's presidential ambitions, but it would not be his last major effort to secure the presidency.
[00:46:12]  He ran again in the year 2000, and this time, he didn't run as a Republican.
[00:46:18]  Now, younger listeners who haven't spent a lot of time watching old episodes of The Simpsons may not remember a fun little tyke named Ross Perot, but the rest of us do.
[00:46:28]  Oh, Ross Perot.
[00:46:29]  He is a preposterously rich, very, very tiny man who once owned a large chunk of the city of Dallas and a small mercenary army.
[00:46:36]  He ran for president, and according to Republican lore, he cost George H.W. Bush his re-election.
[00:46:42]  Now, Perot ran as part of the Reform Party, which, you know, he founded.
[00:46:45]  Yeah, the Reform Party.
[00:46:46]  Yeah.
[00:46:47]  And he did well enough to qualify for federal funding in the 2000 general election.
[00:46:51]  However, Ross Perot decided not to run in 2000.
[00:46:54]  So suddenly there was an opening for anybody who might want to take up his mantle.
[00:46:58]  Pat Buchanan saw this as an opportunity.
[00:47:00]  He decided to use his good name and prominence in national politics to try and get the job.
[00:47:05]  At a convention in Greenbelt, Maryland, Buchanan told 150 people about his plan to use the Reform Party to break up the two-party monopoly.
[00:47:12]  He promised them, if he was elected, at that very moment, their new world order comes crashing down.
[00:47:17]  By mentioning the NWO, Buchanan was directly playing towards the militia crowd.
[00:47:22]  People like Tim McVay, the Oklahoma City bomber who believed in a secret international conspiracy that was in the process of taking over the world.
[00:47:28]  The New World Order was also frequently called the Jew World Order.
[00:47:31]  And although Pat never said those words, you can kind of assume they were in the results.
[00:47:35]  Yeah, you felt that he felt them.
[00:47:37]  He felt them.
[00:47:37]  He felt them.
[00:47:38]  Yeah.
[00:47:39]  During the Green Belt Reform Party meeting, Buchanan posed for a photograph with a representative from Willis Carto's Liberty lobby, who tried to hand him the latest issue of Spotlight.
[00:47:47]  Buchanan told him, allegedly, I've already read it.
[00:47:50]  I've got a copy at my house.
[00:47:52]  Yikes!
[00:47:52]  Yikes!
[00:47:55]  Oh, Pat.
[00:47:56]  That one hurt.
[00:47:57]  That's bad look.
[00:47:59]  In order to press his candidacy, Pat Buchanan did what all good wannabe presidents do.
[00:48:04]  He wrote a book, A Republic, Not an Empire.
[00:48:08]  And we're going to talk about that book in a little bit.
[00:48:10]  But first.
[00:48:11]  Products and services?
[00:48:12]  You got it.
[00:48:12]  You nailed it.
[00:48:13]  You got it.
[00:48:14]  Way faster.
[00:48:15]  All right.
[00:48:15]  Let's get you on Jeopardy and let's get these products.
[00:48:18]  Only if it's only topics up, products and services.
[00:48:21]  Products and services, just products, and then the answers are all services.
[00:48:24]  Yeah, you'd run the board.
[00:48:25]  Products for 500.
[00:48:26]  Services.
[00:48:27]  They're just printing money.
[00:48:29]  What is services?
[00:48:30]  What are services?
[00:48:30]  Oh, I'd lose.
[00:48:32]  Speaking of printing money.
[00:48:42]  There's two golden rules that any man should live by.
[00:48:45]  Rule one, never mess with a country girl.
[00:48:49]  You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes.
[00:48:52]  And rule two, never mess with her friends either.
[00:48:55]  We always say, trust your girlfriends.
[00:48:59]  I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of The Girlfriends...
[00:49:03]  Oh my God, this is the same man.
[00:49:05]  A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist.
[00:49:10]  I felt like I got hit by a truck.
[00:49:12]  I thought, how could this happen to me?
[00:49:13]  The cops didn't seem to care.
[00:49:15]  So they take matters into their own hands.
[00:49:18]  They said, oh, hell no.
[00:49:20]  I vowed I will be his last target.
[00:49:22]  He's going to get what he deserves.
[00:49:27]  Listen to the girlfriends.
[00:49:29]  Trust me, babe.
[00:49:30]  On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:49:40]  I'm Lori Siegel, and on Mostly Human, I go beyond the headlines with the people building our future.
[00:49:45]  This week, an interview with one of the most influential figures in Silicon Valley, OpenAI CEO Sam Altman.
[00:49:52]  I think society is going to decide that creators of AI products bear a tremendous amount of responsibility to products we put out in the world.
[00:49:59]  From power to parenthood.
[00:50:01]  Kids, teenagers, I think they will need a lot of guardrails around AI.
[00:50:04]  This is such a powerful and such a new thing.
[00:50:06]  From addiction to acceleration.
[00:50:09]  The world we live in is a competitive world, and I don't think that's going to stop.
[00:50:11]  Even if you did a lot of redistribution, you know, we have a deep desire to excel and be competitive and gain status and be useful to others.
[00:50:20]  And it's a multiplayer game.
[00:50:22]  What does the man who has extraordinary influence over our lives have to say about the weight of that responsibility?
[00:50:28]  Find out on Mostly Human.
[00:50:30]  My highest order bit is to not destroy the world with AI.
[00:50:33]  Listen to Mostly Human on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
[00:50:41]  Hey, I'm Nora Jones, and I love playing music with people so much that my podcast called Playing Along is back.
[00:50:47]  I sit down with musicians from all musical styles to play songs together in an intimate setting.
[00:50:52]  Every episode's a little different, but it all involves music and conversation with some of my favorite musicians.
[00:50:58]  Over the past two seasons, I've had special guests like Dave Grohl, Leve, Mavis Staples, Remy Wolf, Jeff Tweedy, really too many to name.
[00:51:07]  And this season, I've sat down with Alessia Cara, Sarah McLaughlin, John Legend, and more.
[00:51:12]  Check out my new episode with Josh Grobin.
[00:51:15]  You related to the Phantom at that point.
[00:51:18]  Yeah, I was definitely the Phantom in that.
[00:51:20]  It's so funny.
[00:51:21]  Share each day with me each night, each morning.
[00:51:30]  Say you love me.
[00:51:33]  You know I.
[00:51:34]  So come hang out with us in the studio and listen to Playing Along on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:51:42]  What's up, everyone?
[00:51:43]  I'm Ego Modem.
[00:51:44]  My next guest, you know, from Step Brothers, Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network.
[00:51:51]  It's Will Farrell.
[00:51:55]  My dad gave me the best advice ever.
[00:51:58]  I went and had lunch with him one day, and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot.
[00:52:03]  I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings.
[00:52:06]  I'm working my way up through and I know it's a place they come look for up and coming talent.
[00:52:10]  He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet.

=== Trump Classic Apology (15:23) ===

[00:52:15]  Yeah.
[00:52:15]  He goes, but there's so much luck involved.
[00:52:18]  And he's like, just give it a shot.
[00:52:19]  He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit.
[00:52:28]  If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration.
[00:52:30]  It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat just hang in there.
[00:52:37]  Yeah, it would not be.
[00:52:39]  Right, it wouldn't be that.
[00:52:40]  There's a lot of luck.
[00:52:41]  Yeah.
[00:52:42]  Listen to Thanks Dad on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:52:52]  We're back!
[00:52:53]  Ah, hang on.
[00:52:54]  Did you miss us?
[00:52:56]  I missed us.
[00:52:57]  I know, me too.
[00:52:58]  Now, when we left, I was talking about the book that Pat Buchanan wrote to kick off his 2000 campaign, A Republic, Not an Empire.
[00:53:08]  Now, A Republic Not an Empire was published by a publishing house you may not have heard of called Ragnari Publishing.
[00:53:14]  Does that name sound familiar?
[00:53:15]  Ragnari?
[00:53:16]  Ragnari.
[00:53:17]  It does not.
[00:53:17]  No.
[00:53:18]  Rigneri Publishing.
[00:53:19]  Well, you guys have heard it once before, but I'm not surprised that you don't recognize it.
[00:53:23]  When we did an episode earlier about the history of the American fascist movement back in the 20s and 30s, we talked about a dude named William Rigneri Sr., who was one of the chief financial backers of the America First Movement, a fascist political campaign in the 1930s aimed at aligning the United States with Nazi Germany.
[00:53:39]  His son runs Rigneri Publishing and would later go on to fund the National Policy Institute, which of course is where Richard Spencer came to work.
[00:53:48]  Oh, it's all so connected.
[00:53:52]  I love it too.
[00:53:53]  Oh, it's good stuff.
[00:53:54]  It's a little spider web.
[00:53:56]  Not to be contrarian, I hate it.
[00:53:58]  Yeah, it's gross.
[00:54:00]  It bums me out.
[00:54:01]  Yeah.
[00:54:02]  Yeah.
[00:54:03]  Anyway, according to the New York Times review of Buchanan's book, Mr. Buchanan's thesis that Hitler offered no physical threat to the United States as of the late 1940s.
[00:54:11]  In the book A Republic Not an Empire, Mr. Buchanan analyzes the history of American foreign policy and questions whether Hitler sought war with the West or was driven to it.
[00:54:19]  Hitler made no overt move to threaten U.S. vital interests after his initial victories across Europe in 1939 and 1940, Mr. Buchanan writes.
[00:54:27]  In a separate chapter, criticizing the power of numerous American ethnic groups over foreign policy, Mr. Buchanan writes, After World War II, Jewish influence over foreign policy became almost an obsession with American leaders.
[00:54:40]  Yeah, Pat, other people are obsessed.
[00:54:43]  Yeah.
[00:54:44]  God.
[00:54:45]  At one point in the book, Pat writes this.
[00:54:47]  Had Britain and France not given the war guarantees to Poland, there might have been no Dunkirk, no blitz, no Vichy, no destruction of the Jewish populations of Europe.
[00:54:56]  What?
[00:54:57]  If we just let Hitler invade Poland unchecked, there would have been no Holocaust, except for the Jews that they instantly started killing as soon as they moved into Poland.
[00:55:08]  Do you think that the Holocaust happened because Hitler was mad about them?
[00:55:13]  I think that's what happened.
[00:55:14]  Like, now I'm going to blame him and kill all the Jews.
[00:55:18]  I think he thinks of like Hitler committing the Holocaust as like as like a guy hitting his car because it breaks down on him.
[00:55:27]  Right.
[00:55:27]  Yeah.
[00:55:28]  Yeah, come on, come on.
[00:55:29]  Come on.
[00:55:29]  Come on.
[00:55:30]  I think the other real thing is that he's okay with the killing the dude.
[00:55:35]  He's real.
[00:55:35]  That's not a big thing.
[00:55:37]  So why do people care?
[00:55:39]  It's not his preference.
[00:55:40]  He would have wished they'd have gotten moved to maybe Madagascar.
[00:55:43]  Right.
[00:55:43]  It's the movement.
[00:55:44]  You move.
[00:55:45]  But only because it looks bad.
[00:55:47]  Check out their platform in 1933, Pat.
[00:55:50]  Tell me what you think.
[00:55:52]  Buchanan's campaign took off like wildfire among fringe political circles, at least timeied slightly by the fact that one of his fundraisers, a British national named Mark Cotterill, was building a network of Buchanan supporters that included members of the National Alliance, an explicitly neo-Nazi group funded by George Lincoln Rockwell disciple William Pierce, author of the Turner Diaries.
[00:56:10]  Stop it.
[00:56:11]  Stop.
[00:56:14]  Oh, it's painful.
[00:56:16]  Oh, you just can't keep these Nazis off of him.
[00:56:20]  All these, oh, why are all these Nazis who are covered in Nazis?
[00:56:24]  Covered in Nazis.
[00:56:25]  It's that onion article.
[00:56:27]  Why are all these homosexuals sucking my cock?
[00:56:34]  Oh, Pat.
[00:56:35]  Oh, Pat.
[00:56:36]  Jesus Christ.
[00:56:37]  Now, Pat Buchanan's, I think, wife, who ran his campaign, fired Mark along with 20 other volunteers, which was meant to prove that the campaign was completely intolerant of racists and fascists.
[00:56:47]  But the fact that there were more than 20 of them to fire kind of belies that point.
[00:56:51]  Oh, man.
[00:56:55]  Pat.
[00:56:56]  Now, Buchanan picked his running mate as his running mate, Azola Foster, a 62-year-old black woman, anti-immigrant activist.
[00:57:02]  She became a Republican during the Reagan era and joined the John Birch Society in the mid-1990s.
[00:57:07]  Azola was an outspoken advocate of the Confederate flag, which she considered a symbol of heritage, saying, the war was more about states' rights than anything else.
[00:57:15]  During her acceptance speech, she promised voters, if anybody knows a racist, I do.
[00:57:19]  Pat Buchanan ain't no racist.
[00:57:21]  Oh, girl.
[00:57:23]  If anyone, of all the people, like the race, I know a racist.
[00:57:29]  I know a racist.
[00:57:33]  Fun times.
[00:57:34]  Pat Buchanan himself promised to redefine what it means to be a conservative in America.
[00:57:40]  And it's likely that his promises cause serious worry for George W. Bush and crew.
[00:57:44]  Remember, these folks already accepted as given that Perot's Reform Party candidacy cost their last Bush an election.
[00:57:50]  They were not about to let that happen again.
[00:57:53]  Enter Dr. Stone and a quirky little fella named Donald Trump.
[00:57:59]  There it is.
[00:58:00]  Yeah.
[00:58:01]  As soon as you're like the Reform Party is like, you gotta talk about it.
[00:58:04]  We gotta talk about Donald Trump.
[00:58:05]  According to NBC News, Trump too was against NAFTA and spoke of global trade deals as a drain on American jobs.
[00:58:10]  And he was for a strict immigration policy.
[00:58:12]  We have to take care of the people who are here, he said.
[00:58:14]  But he drew a bright line when it came to Buchanan's tone.
[00:58:17]  He seems to be a racist and accused him of cultivating support from the bigoted fringes.
[00:58:21]  On slow days, Trump wrote in an op-ed, he attacks gays, immigrants, welfare recipients, even Zulus.
[00:58:26]  When cornered, he says he's misunderstood.
[00:58:28]  On a trip to California, between a meeting with reform activists, a paid speech, and a taping of The Tonight Show with Jay Leno, Trump visited the Simon Wiesenthal Center's Museum of Tolerance, which sought to shine a light on racism and injustice around the world.
[00:58:41]  After his tour, Trump told reporters that Buchanan should come here and have a talk with Rabbi Cooper and his staff and talk things out a bit.
[00:58:47]  He added, we must recognize bigotry and prejudice and defeat it wherever it appears.
[00:58:51]  Let that guy go.
[00:58:52]  I hate him so much.
[00:58:53]  He's such a piece of shit.
[00:58:54]  What a fucking, what a, what a, oh, God, what a piece of shit.
[00:58:58]  Absolutely opportunistic piece of shit.
[00:59:00]  Yeah, no, nothing means anything to him.
[00:59:03]  Also, like, the idea of like, oh, yeah, Pat Buchanan went to the Museum of Tolerance is like, he's good now.
[00:59:07]  Oh, no, no, this is Donald Trump.
[00:59:09]  No, I know, but I'm saying, like, he's like, oh, I think Pat should come here.
[00:59:13]  Yeah.
[00:59:13]  Oh, yeah.
[00:59:14]  The idea that like a visit would solve Pat Buchanan.
[00:59:18]  Yeah.
[00:59:18]  Yeah.
[00:59:19]  Rather than him just like kind of like trying to hide his crotch from view as he like walks through the concentration camp photos because he's a fucking Nazi.
[00:59:29]  Yeah, I think that was clear.
[00:59:31]  Now, when questioned about Pat Buchanan's Hitler Wasn't All That Bad book, Donald Trump said this, Pat says Hitler had no malicious intent towards the United States.
[00:59:38]  Hitler killed six million Jews and millions of others.
[00:59:40]  Don't you think it was only a question of time before he got to us?
[00:59:43]  He tackled Europe first and we were next.
[00:59:45]  Pat's amazing.
[00:59:46]  When asked whether he had read the book, Mr. Trump stated, I've seen the phrases we're dealing with.
[00:59:52]  Classic.
[00:59:52]  Oh, that is it.
[00:59:54]  I've seen the phrases.
[00:59:55]  I've seen the phrases where I had to include that line.
[00:59:57]  It's perfect.
[01:00:02]  That's Trump classic right there.
[01:00:03]  Yeah, that's really, really Trump classic.
[01:00:06]  I've seen the phrases we're dealing with.
[01:00:09]  Trump's campaign.
[01:00:10]  It's just like the phrase, like I've seen the phrases we're dealing with.
[01:00:13]  We're dealing with is such a weird, like...
[01:00:15]  He talks so weird.
[01:00:16]  He talks very weird.
[01:00:17]  He doesn't understand words.
[01:00:19]  Or he does.
[01:00:21]  Yeah.
[01:00:21]  On a very masterful level.
[01:00:23]  Yeah.
[01:00:23]  Who knows?
[01:00:24]  Not me.
[01:00:25]  Trump's campaign was able to take a significant amount of wind out of Pat Buchanan's sales, but it was not enough to stop Pat Buchanan's Reform Party candidacy.
[01:00:33]  Buchanan made his way onto the ballot in several states, including Florida.
[01:00:37]  In Palm Beach County, a liberal stronghold, he received 3,407 votes on first count.
[01:00:42]  Local Reform Party officials realized at once that this count was completely bogus.
[01:00:46]  Buchanan himself in an interview stated that only 300 to 400 of those votes were really his, and the rest were misreads.
[01:00:51]  He told an interviewer, the rest, I am sure, were gore votes.
[01:00:55]  Florida Secretary of State and Bush campaign co-chair decided that recounts were not necessary.
[01:01:00]  The Democrats challenged this, and the issue was taken to the courts, leading to a final Supreme Court decision to end the recounts.
[01:01:05]  The 3,000 votes Buchanan himself believed were for Al Gore went to him instead.
[01:01:09]  This left Bush ahead in Florida by 500 votes.
[01:01:12]  So that's cool.
[01:01:15]  I think we differ on that.
[01:01:16]  I think it's a good idea.
[01:01:19]  It means cold, like ice cold.
[01:01:21]  Ice cold.
[01:01:22]  Ice cool.
[01:01:22]  Ice, ice cold.
[01:01:23]  Maybe frozen.
[01:01:26]  Yeah, that's a dark.
[01:01:28]  Yeah, that's a dark path to think about.
[01:01:30]  Yeah.
[01:01:30]  Too much.
[01:01:31]  In a recent politico article on his life, Pat Buchanan was branded the Forrest Gump of Politics.
[01:01:37]  A name which would be apt if Forrest Gump had a ball's deep history of anti-Semitism and supporting Nazis.
[01:01:43]  But still, you can't deny that there's something to the idea.
[01:01:46]  For every major swing American politics has taken in my lifetime at least, Pat Buchanan has been there to make sure things break just a little bit worse than they otherwise would have.
[01:01:55]  This pattern has continued into the Trump era.
[01:01:57]  In January of 2019, USA Today published an article titled, Trump Quotes Pat Buchanan.
[01:02:04]  Full fucking circle.
[01:02:06]  Last week, Buchanan wrote an article that implored Trump to declare a national emergency on the southern border because mass immigration from the global south, not climate change, is the real existential crisis of the West.
[01:02:15]  Trump has publicly considered such a declaration as a way to go around Congress in order to secure funding for a wall on the U.S.-Mexico border.
[01:02:21]  On Sunday, the president quoted a portion of Buchanan's post in a pair of tweets.
[01:02:25]  The first said, the Trump portrait of an unsustainable border crisis is dead on, and then listed a number of immigration-related crime statistics.
[01:02:31]  Buchanan did not cite the source of the data, but the context indicated it was from the Trump administration.
[01:02:36]  The southern border, quote, is eventually going to be militarized and defended, or the United States, as we have known it, is going to cease to exist.
[01:02:42]  And Americans will not go gentle into that good night.
[01:02:46]  The second tweet quoted.
[01:02:48]  Now, this is interesting to me for a reason I'm going to detail.
[01:02:52]  Buchanan's words, which were quoted by the president, are particularly fascinating in light of the Christchurch shooting that would occur roughly two months later.
[01:03:00]  The shooter's manifesto, titled The Great Replacement, focused around his belief that the white race was being exterminated through immigration from non-white people into majority white nations.
[01:03:08]  The shooter ended his manifesto by citing the same Dylan Thomas poem that Pat quoted, expressing his desire that the white race not go gentle into that good night before pumping rounds into dozens and dozens of men, women, and children.
[01:03:22]  Seems like you got from Pat.
[01:03:25]  Thank you, Pat.
[01:03:26]  Thank you, thank you, Pat.
[01:03:28]  And that's Pat.
[01:03:29]  That's Pat.
[01:03:30]  That was Pat.
[01:03:31]  Not Pat, what I'm about to say, but wrong about Al Gore.
[01:03:35]  I always think, God, if he'd won, we'd be so good on climate change right now.
[01:03:41]  We'd have some of that.
[01:03:42]  We would have made such modest and minor changes.
[01:03:46]  Yeah, that's the thing, like for decades, it's like you just do this, just do that, and then it gets worse and worse, and then you got to do more extreme things.
[01:03:52]  Yes, as time goes by.
[01:03:53]  It's one of those things.
[01:03:54]  When I was a kid, Pat Buchanan was a name I heard a number of times.
[01:03:57]  Yeah.
[01:03:58]  I don't think my dad was like a huge backer of Pat Buchanan.
[01:04:01]  He was a pretty mainstream Republican voter, but he liked Pat and cited him as someone he thought really got it and would be a good candidate.
[01:04:10]  And I don't know how much of Pat Buchanan he actually knew.
[01:04:13]  I'm going to guess he just heard some sound bites on TV and stuff.
[01:04:16]  Right, the stuff that's more palatable.
[01:04:18]  Yeah, not the cavorting with Nazis bits.
[01:04:22]  Will your dad listen to this?
[01:04:23]  Oh, yeah, I hope so.
[01:04:24]  Yeah.
[01:04:25]  Hi, Dad.
[01:04:26]  Hi, my dad.
[01:04:27]  I don't think you're a Nazi, but I think you got hoodwinked by one.
[01:04:32]  A lot of people get hoodwinked.
[01:04:34]  A lot of people get hoodwinked.
[01:04:35]  That's kind of what they do.
[01:04:37]  That's kind of their goal.
[01:04:38]  Kind of their goal.
[01:04:39]  Yeah.
[01:04:40]  So.
[01:04:42]  Products and services.
[01:04:44]  Awful connections of awful people throughout history.
[01:04:47]  They all know each other.
[01:04:48]  They all know each other.
[01:04:49]  They all agree with each other.
[01:04:50]  Yeah, you could like almost, you really actually really could play if we're doing like a degrees of George Lincoln Rockwell.
[01:05:00]  You get George Lincoln Rockwell directly to William Pierce, to that British guy who was on staff with Pat Buchanan.
[01:05:06]  To Pat.
[01:05:07]  There you go.
[01:05:08]  Four degrees to Rockwell, not that far.
[01:05:10]  What a fun game.
[01:05:11]  What a fun game.
[01:05:12]  You could play.
[01:05:13]  I'm only one degree away from Heinrich Himmler, by the way.
[01:05:16]  Really?
[01:05:16]  I got to shake hands and have an interview with a guy who'd been in the Hitler youth when he was 14 when the war ended and got to meet all of the.
[01:05:24]  Because they would regularly do these stages and stuff.
[01:05:26]  So yeah.
[01:05:27]  Wow.
[01:05:27]  Good.
[01:05:28]  That was great.
[01:05:29]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:05:29]  Good for me.
[01:05:30]  Herman Goering, too.
[01:05:31]  You won the game.
[01:05:32]  I won the Nazi game.
[01:05:34]  Yeah.
[01:05:34]  It's a terrible game that no one should play.
[01:05:36]  Did you know Hitler was a good soldier?
[01:05:39]  That's wonderful.
[01:05:40]  Tell me more.
[01:05:43]  What else was good about Hitler?
[01:05:45]  Is he a good soldier?
[01:05:46]  Yeah, I mean, yeah, fine.
[01:05:48]  Like, he did his job well.
[01:05:49]  He got awards for it.
[01:05:50]  Like, it's, yeah, it's so were a lot of men who didn't commit genocide.
[01:05:55]  He got traumatized.
[01:05:56]  He got traumatized, and that's why he did all the things.
[01:05:59]  And this is, again, about Jordan Peterson.
[01:06:02]  His views of Hitler.
[01:06:03]  Yeah, it's, I mean, it's one of those things, like, it's such a messy thing.
[01:06:07]  Like, it's totally worth discussing.
[01:06:08]  For example, Hitler spent literally four years in the trenches at the very front and was exposed to an enormous amount of artillery fire.
[01:06:15]  And we have now learned in recent years from our soldiers that constant exposure to artillery and explosions causes essentially CTE, the same thing that NFL players get.
[01:06:24]  And like, yeah, there's a very good chance that not just Hitler, but a lot of Nazis, most of whom were veterans, may have been impacted in some way on like a physical level by the damage done to their brains.
[01:06:34]  That's fascinating.
[01:06:35]  Totally possible.
[01:06:36]  Reasonable thing to talk about and want to explore.
[01:06:38]  Absolutely.
[01:06:39]  Which doesn't mitigate it because, again, a lot of people out there with CTE and traumatic brain injuries who kill six million Jewish people.
[01:06:47]  Yes, exactly.
[01:06:50]  Compelling, compelling point about other people.
[01:06:54]  Yeah.
[01:06:55]  Oh, yeah.
[01:06:55]  We have to study.
[01:06:56]  Yeah, well, it's how you approach it.
[01:06:58]  And there's, again, I rant about Jordan Peterson for a long time, but like it's the, it's framing things like that that justify the actions.
[01:07:07]  Yeah.
[01:07:08]  As opposed to exploring things that contribute to it and not like really looking at where does the ideology come from?
[01:07:15]  Yeah, because the people who focus entirely on like, oh, you know, he got brain damaged or he got traumatized at the front and this caused it.
[01:07:21]  Well, they ignore all that he wrote and said and all that the people who knew him when he was in that hostel in Vienna as a homeless young man said about the fact that these little tracks, which were basically like the viral image memes, was the fucking 4chan of its time.
[01:07:33]  These like anti-Semitic tracks that would be printed out cheaply by the hundreds and passed around for free on the streets of Vienna.

=== Trauma vs Ideology (06:55) ===

[01:07:38]  Hitler was obsessed with them and collected them and talked about them and read them to everybody.
[01:07:43]  And like that was probably more of a factor than any potential brain damage.
[01:07:49]  And like, yeah, in talking about like the like putting the infirm or like disabled, like disabled people in camps, like I've heard Peterson talk about how like, oh, it was because you know Hitler had like this weird like OCD and aversion to like germs and stuff and then it got worse and worse and worse as time went on.
[01:08:08]  It's like, well no, it's because they didn't work and can and contribute to society.
[01:08:13]  Because he thought that it was worth more for Germany to win the war than those people to refer to them as useless eaters.
[01:08:19]  It's not like, ooh, they're gross.
[01:08:21]  Like it's it's it's approaching it he was disgusted ignoring other stuff.
[01:08:26]  He was disgusted by their inability to further his dreams of conquest.
[01:08:29]  Right.
[01:08:29]  Yeah.
[01:08:30]  Right.
[01:08:31]  It wasn't like this weird like, oh, I don't like the germ.
[01:08:33]  Right.
[01:08:34]  Yeah.
[01:08:34]  It's just weird.
[01:08:36]  Like, it's not, because it's not Holocaust revisionism, but like it can be a form of justifications.
[01:08:42]  Right.
[01:08:42]  Hitler justificationism.
[01:08:44]  Yeah.
[01:08:44]  Yeah.
[01:08:44]  It's there's so many.
[01:08:48]  I'm a big study and Hitler fan.
[01:08:51]  There's so many dumb debates that we have about the guy that are deeply frustrating.
[01:08:58]  Like the people who will focus on the minutiae of like, well, we don't have his name on any documents signing away the Holocaust.
[01:09:04]  So we don't actually know that it was like, guys.
[01:09:10]  What are you doing?
[01:09:11]  Honestly, like, what do you call it?
[01:09:13]  What is the outcome you want from this conversation?
[01:09:16]  Yeah.
[01:09:16]  And what do you want me to think of you?
[01:09:19]  Are you looking at World War II and taking out of it?
[01:09:22]  Maybe we weren't quite fair to Hitler.
[01:09:24]  Right.
[01:09:24]  That's the thing.
[01:09:25]  Like, all these discussions is like, what is the logical conclusion and goal of this approach?
[01:09:31]  Yeah.
[01:09:32]  If you extrapolate it and you go a little farther, like, okay, so you're just like, it's just Hitler apologism, and then you're justifying those actions with different justifications and making it seem valid.
[01:09:44]  Like, it's all gross.
[01:09:46]  Again, what's the point?
[01:09:51]  You know what the point is?
[01:09:52]  This is not an ad pivot.
[01:09:54]  It's time for y'all to get the heck out of here.
[01:09:57]  Oh, yeah, get out of here.
[01:10:00]  My name's Katie Stoll.
[01:10:01]  Oh, I hated that.
[01:10:04]  I love your name.
[01:10:04]  No, no, no, the way I said it, like a cheerleader.
[01:10:08]  Or like I was slating for a commercial audition.
[01:10:10]  That's only for actors to care about.
[01:10:12]  I'm Katie Stoll.
[01:10:13]  We have a show, Some More News, on YouTube.
[01:10:16]  That's true.
[01:10:17]  We've got a podcast, Even More News, where you get podcasts.
[01:10:20]  Also true.
[01:10:21]  Cody.
[01:10:22]  My name is Cody Johnston.
[01:10:23]  You can follow me on Twitter at Dr. Mr. Cody or Some More News is the Twitter account for that.
[01:10:29]  Also, patreon.com/slash some more news if you want to support the show in some way.
[01:10:33]  Yeah, and I'm Katie Stoll and also Katie Stoll on the Twitter.
[01:10:37]  Yeah.
[01:10:38]  And I'm not Cody Johnston.
[01:10:40]  It's true.
[01:10:40]  But I might be someday if I play my cards.
[01:10:44]  He's going to wear your skin like a suit.
[01:10:46]  I'm going to wear your skin like a suit.
[01:10:47]  Ah, you got it.
[01:10:48]  That's why I got the machete.
[01:10:49]  Ah!
[01:10:51]  Punchline.
[01:10:53]  All right.
[01:10:53]  Well, I'm going to probably should read the plugs before I do any cutting.
[01:11:00]  Behindthebast.com is our website where you can find the sources for this episode.
[01:11:04]  You can find me on Twitter at Bastard or IWriteOkay.
[01:11:07]  You can find this podcast on Twitter and Instagram at BastardsPod.
[01:11:10]  You can buy t-shirts, cups, stickers, hand grenades at TeePublic behind the bastards.
[01:11:15]  That's it.
[01:11:16]  That's the show.
[01:11:17]  I'm going to cut.
[01:11:19]  Yeah.
[01:11:20]  I mean, I'm glad I got to know all that stuff before you wear my skin.
[01:11:22]  Waving the cards.
[01:11:23]  Before I wear your skin like it.
[01:11:24]  See, waving the knife.
[01:11:25]  Right.
[01:11:25]  Like, I would say, I would actually describe this as wildly branching the knife.
[01:11:28]  I didn't, I wouldn't earlier.
[01:11:30]  But now, because like it's loose in my hand.
[01:11:33]  The poison room is right behind me.
[01:11:35]  Yeah.
[01:11:35]  Like I could crack the poison room and we would all be in trouble.
[01:11:39]  Way more likely to break into the poison room with that knife than you're throwing bagels.
[01:11:42]  I agree.
[01:11:43]  I agree.
[01:11:43]  The throwing, I'm glad I didn't throw the machete because that poison room, we do not want to crack.
[01:11:48]  Yeah, no, but it keeps the energy up.
[01:11:49]  Keeps like it goes.
[01:11:50]  Not today, kicking your toes, you know?
[01:11:52]  Not today.
[01:11:53]  Not today, poison room.
[01:11:54]  There's a good chance in the next like nine months or so, but not today.
[01:11:59]  All right.
[01:12:00]  Podcast is over.
[01:12:06]  When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands.
[01:12:14]  I vowed I will be his last target.
[01:12:17]  He is not going to get away with this.
[01:12:19]  He's going to get what he deserves.
[01:12:21]  We always say that: trust your girlfriends.
[01:12:26]  Listen to the girlfriends.
[01:12:27]  Trust me, babe.
[01:12:28]  On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[01:12:38]  What's up, everyone?
[01:12:38]  I'm Ago Modern.
[01:12:40]  My next guest, it's Will Farrell.
[01:12:44]  My dad gave me the best advice ever.
[01:12:47]  He goes, just give it a shot.
[01:12:48]  But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit.
[01:12:55]  If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration.
[01:12:58]  It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat just hanging in there.
[01:13:05]  Yeah, it would not be.
[01:13:07]  Right, it wouldn't be that.
[01:13:08]  There's a lot of life.
[01:13:09]  Listen to Thanks Dad on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[01:13:17]  In 2023, bachelor star Clayton Eckard was accused of fathering twins, but the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax.
[01:13:24]  You doctored this particular test twice, Miss Owens, correct?
[01:13:28]  I doctored the test once.
[01:13:29]  It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern.
[01:13:34]  Two more men who'd been through the same thing.
[01:13:36]  Greg Gillespie and Michael Mancini.
[01:13:39]  My mind was blown.
[01:13:40]  I'm Stephanie Young.
[01:13:42]  This is Love Trapped.
[01:13:43]  Laura, Scottsdale Police.
[01:13:45]  As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.
[01:13:49]  Listen to the Love Trapped podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[01:13:57]  10-10 shots fired, City Hall building.
[01:13:59]  How could this have happened in City Hall?
[01:14:01]  Somebody tell me that.
[01:14:02]  Jeffrey Woods.
[01:14:03]  A shocking public murder.
[01:14:04]  This is one of the most dramatic events that really ever happened in New York City politics.
[01:14:11]  They screamed, get down, get down.
[01:14:13]  Those are shots.
[01:14:15]  A tragedy that's now forgotten.
[01:14:17]  And a mystery that may or may not have been political, that may have been about sex.
[01:14:21]  Listen to Rorschach, Murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app.
[01:14:25]  Apple Podcasts are wherever you get your podcasts.
[01:14:30]  This is an iHeart podcast.
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