Behind the Bastards - Part Two: Gary Young: The Fake Doctor Who Drowned His Own Baby
Aired: 2019-05-23
Duration: 01:07:26


=== Trust Your Girlfriends (08:05) ===

[00:00:00]  This is an iHeart podcast.
[00:00:02]  Guaranteed human.
[00:00:04]  When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands.
[00:00:13]  I vowed I will be his last target.
[00:00:15]  He is not going to get away with this.
[00:00:17]  He's going to get what he deserves.
[00:00:19]  We always say that, trust your girlfriends.
[00:00:24]  Listen to the girlfriends.
[00:00:25]  Trust me, babe.
[00:00:26]  On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:00:31]  I got you.
[00:00:32]  I got you.
[00:00:36]  What's up, everyone?
[00:00:37]  I'm Ago Modern.
[00:00:38]  My next guest, it's Will Farrell.
[00:00:42]  My dad gave me the best advice ever.
[00:00:45]  He goes, just give it a shot.
[00:00:46]  But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit.
[00:00:53]  If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration.
[00:00:56]  It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat just hang in there.
[00:01:03]  Yeah, it would not be.
[00:01:05]  Right, it wouldn't be that.
[00:01:06]  There's a lot of life.
[00:01:07]  Listen to Thanksgiving on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:01:15]  On a recent episode of the podcast, Money and Wealth with John O'Brien, I sit down with Tiffany the Budginista Alicia to talk about what it really takes to take control of your money.
[00:01:25]  What would that look like in our families if everyone was able to pass on wealth to the people when they're no longer here?
[00:01:32]  We break down budgeting, financial discipline, and how to build real wealth, starting with the mindset shifts too many of us were never, ever taught.
[00:01:41]  If you've ever felt you didn't get the memo on money, this conversation is for you to hear more.
[00:01:46]  Listen to Money and Wealth with John O'Brien from the Black Effect Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.
[00:01:57]  On the Ceno Show podcast, each episode invites you into a raw, unfiltered conversation about recovery, resilience, and redemption.
[00:02:04]  On a recent episode, I sit down with actor, cultural icon Danny Trail to talk about addiction, transformation, and the power of second chances.
[00:02:10]  The entire season two is now available at the bench, featuring powerful conversations with guests like Tiffany Addish, Johnny Knoxville, and more.
[00:02:17]  I'm an alcoholic without this program.
[00:02:20]  I'm a guy.
[00:02:21]  Listen to Ceno's show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.
[00:02:30]  What's parting my twos?
[00:02:33]  Because it's part two.
[00:02:36]  Behind the bastards, I'm Robert Evans, podcast host who shames his producer, Sophie, every episode with a new introduction that just does not land.
[00:02:45]  I like the drywall one.
[00:02:47]  Thank you.
[00:02:48]  Thank you.
[00:02:49]  I like that one.
[00:02:49]  Thank you, Billy Wayne Davis, my guest today.
[00:02:51]  Tim Hopdoon, comedian with a website.
[00:02:55]  Yep, I got a website.
[00:02:56]  For a tour.
[00:02:57]  You can find me on Twitter too at Billy Wayne Davis.
[00:02:59]  You good?
[00:03:00]  There we go.
[00:03:00]  All my shit comes up at Billy Wayne Davis.
[00:03:03]  We're getting a little bit more of a plug from you each time.
[00:03:05]  I am getting better at promotion.
[00:03:06]  Thank you.
[00:03:07]  Yeah, we're watching you learn in real time.
[00:03:09]  Representatives say it helps with the money part.
[00:03:12]  Sort of like how Gary Young learned in real time how to be a doctor.
[00:03:16]  I don't think he did.
[00:03:17]  I don't think he did.
[00:03:18]  I don't think learning how to be a doctor was his game.
[00:03:20]  Yeah, I don't think it's something you do by trial and error.
[00:03:23]  I mean, medicine, like science is, is a discipline, but individually, that's not how you should learn.
[00:03:28]  Learning was never one of his pursuits.
[00:03:31]  No, not with having his head caved in by a tree.
[00:03:34]  Like ambition.
[00:03:35]  Yes.
[00:03:35]  Super ambitious.
[00:03:37]  You can't fault the hustle.
[00:03:38]  Yeah, no.
[00:03:39]  No, it is.
[00:03:40]  It's impressive.
[00:03:41]  And there's a perseverance that you don't see in a lot of doctors.
[00:03:45]  No matter who you were, no matter what government agency you were, you were not powerful enough to stop Gary Young from pretending to be a doctor.
[00:03:53]  No, as long as you don't look in Washington State or Mexico.
[00:03:56]  Or California.
[00:03:57]  Or California sometime.
[00:03:58]  Now, Utah.
[00:03:59]  Well, I could see where he went to Utah.
[00:04:01]  And it's about to be a different country.
[00:04:03]  There's always this, there's a certain type that finds their way to Utah.
[00:04:07]  Yeah, there is a certain type.
[00:04:08]  Warren Hatch and Gary Young types.
[00:04:10]  And Joseph Smith.
[00:04:12]  And Joseph Smith.
[00:04:13]  Well, I mean, he never made it quite out there because that mob killed him.
[00:04:17]  Yeah, well, he was headed there.
[00:04:19]  He knew that was his spot.
[00:04:20]  He knew that was his spot.
[00:04:21]  Brigham Young got him there.
[00:04:22]  Something is calling me there.
[00:04:25]  I feel like someday I'm going to be able to treat people's cancer in Utah with oregano oil.
[00:04:32]  I've got a secret.
[00:04:34]  It's oregano oil.
[00:04:36]  All right.
[00:04:36]  I mean, what kind of the thought process?
[00:04:39]  Because it is calculated.
[00:04:41]  Like, hey, these people are desperate.
[00:04:46]  Yeah, science can't do some things.
[00:04:47]  And a real doctor is occasionally going to have to say, I'm sorry, there's just nothing we can do.
[00:04:52]  There's nothing.
[00:04:52]  But Gary Young is never going to say there's nothing we can do.
[00:04:55]  Gary Young's going to say, you got 2,000 bucks a week?
[00:04:58]  We can always do something.
[00:04:59]  You can do so much shit that you don't know about.
[00:05:04]  Let me tell you about hot tubs and their uses for babies.
[00:05:09]  He's like that guy.
[00:05:10]  And I don't mean Trump, you know, jumps in everything, but it is that same kind of thing where it's like, oh, you just lie.
[00:05:17]  Yeah, all of these people, left or right, whatever they align themselves with, all of the people who are grifters have way more in common with each other than with anybody else.
[00:05:25]  Yeah, that horseshoe theory.
[00:05:27]  I mean, it's not even horrific.
[00:05:28]  Because that's like more of a political thing.
[00:05:29]  This is just like the eternal similarity of grifters.
[00:05:33]  Like the similarity of, what's his name? Wakefield, the guy who like created the autism vaccine belief epidemic, and Donald Trump and Alex Jones or Keith Ranieri, who was like more of a lefty side guy of this.
[00:05:47]  He was the dude behind that cult where women in Hollywood were branding themselves.
[00:05:50]  They're all the same guy.
[00:05:52]  Yeah, no, they really are.
[00:05:53]  Where it's just like, you just don't say, like, I've never done anything wrong.
[00:05:57]  Yeah.
[00:05:57]  Yeah.
[00:05:58]  Never.
[00:05:59]  Never.
[00:05:59]  And none of them are as good as L. Ron Hubbard, who was the king of that type.
[00:06:04]  I just think he had a gift.
[00:06:06]  He had a gift.
[00:06:07]  He did have a gift.
[00:06:08]  You can't get that big without something special.
[00:06:12]  No.
[00:06:12]  He could just put out nonsense.
[00:06:15]  Yeah.
[00:06:15]  He was amazing.
[00:06:16]  And if you can flood anybody, like not even just like print media or the internet or just anyone's brain with just nonsense, you can flood it.
[00:06:27]  They just turn it off and they're like, I'm just one out of this.
[00:06:30]  Everybody has a nonsense that they're vulnerable to.
[00:06:32]  Yeah.
[00:06:33]  Yeah.
[00:06:33]  And it's different for everybody because we can all look at like the nonsense that like this group of people buys into and like, oh, essential oils curing cancer.
[00:06:40]  Yeah, No, yeah.
[00:06:41]  And then you find your nonsense.
[00:06:44]  You look on your Instagram feed.
[00:06:45]  That's your nonsense.
[00:06:46]  What you're getting sold.
[00:06:47]  I've realized if it says tactical, I'll be like, I'll click on it.
[00:06:51]  Yeah.
[00:06:51]  Yeah.
[00:06:51]  I have so many machetes.
[00:06:53]  I have.
[00:06:54]  And I do use machetes regularly, but not as many as I have.
[00:06:58]  Not nearly as many as I have.
[00:07:00]  I have two.
[00:07:00]  I have two, and I live in a nice neighborhood.
[00:07:02]  I have like six, yeah.
[00:07:05]  That's a very nice working class neighborhood that I do not need a machete for.
[00:07:10]  Everybody needs one machete.
[00:07:10]  I found a good deal on a machete.
[00:07:13]  What are you just leaving machetes on the table?
[00:07:15]  I thought I might need another machete for the fact.
[00:07:17]  I feel like all of my life problems can be solved.
[00:07:19]  I just find the right machete.
[00:07:21]  Just a big knife.
[00:07:22]  It's awesome.
[00:07:23]  It's awesome.
[00:07:24]  He and I, I'm from Tennessee.
[00:07:25]  He's from Texas.
[00:07:26]  There's a certain thing we're like, yeah, I got, I gave my son a little knife.
[00:07:29]  He's nine.
[00:07:30]  Yeah.
[00:07:31]  Yeah.
[00:07:31]  You give him a knife.
[00:07:32]  And he gave, you could tell he terrified him and he just put it in his drawer.
[00:07:35]  I'm, I'm oggling a little like pistol that's an AR-15, but a pistol with like a tiny little grip.
[00:07:41]  And it's like, I know it's dumb.
[00:07:43]  I know it's going to break anyone's eardrum that uses it.
[00:07:46]  It's going to like ruin my wrist.
[00:07:47]  It's a stupid, stupid thing.
[00:07:49]  But look at how neat it looks.
[00:07:50]  Looks pretty cool.
[00:07:51]  It looks pretty cool.
[00:07:52]  Real cool.
[00:07:53]  So we all have something we're vulnerable to that's that's bad for us.
[00:07:58]  And there are grifters out there who are great at making me understand it.
[00:08:03]  And so don't trust grifters.

=== Don't Trust Grifters (09:43) ===

[00:08:05]  Let's read about the rest of Gary Young.
[00:08:06]  The problem is that they're very trustworthy.
[00:08:09]  They are.
[00:08:09]  That's their gift.
[00:08:10]  Yeah.
[00:08:10]  And I'm going to guess if you met Gary Young, you would not immediately be like, that seems like a guy who drowned his baby in a hot tub.
[00:08:17]  Well, it's like George W. Bush.
[00:08:18]  That's why they picked him.
[00:08:20]  He's so...
[00:08:20]  I don't like him, but I like him.
[00:08:23]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:08:24]  I've seen him.
[00:08:25]  I've been very close to him at like a speech and stuff.
[00:08:27]  Like, not even a speech, he was doing like a Q ⁇ A.
[00:08:31]  And he's super likable.
[00:08:33]  You're instantly sort of like, oh, I get why, like, you know, like all the leaks that have come out of the Trump administration.
[00:08:39]  I get why that shit didn't happen with the Bush administration.
[00:08:41]  Yes.
[00:08:42]  You just, like, if you spend time around the guy, like, even if you like know the fucked up shit that's going on, like, you kind of, like, just like him.
[00:08:48]  Super fun.
[00:08:48]  Still pretty fun dude.
[00:08:49]  That's just what they're good at.
[00:08:51]  Because the penguins back there.
[00:08:53]  Obama had that same gift where like, I know we're dropping a lot of bombs on Yemen, but like, he makes me feel so good about myself.
[00:08:59]  Yes.
[00:09:00]  And he's doing some other good stuff.
[00:09:02]  That was a good idea.
[00:09:03]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:09:03]  I mean, I'm not saying I don't think either he or Bush were grifters, even though I'm very critical of the Bush administration because they're both people who tried to do concrete things as opposed to like trying to perform unregistered surgery.
[00:09:15]  Yes.
[00:09:16]  Yeah.
[00:09:16]  So there are numerous large essential oil companies in the United States today, and this is all thanks to Gary Young's vision and the staggering success of Young Living.
[00:09:23]  Now, within the industry, Young Living differentiates itself from all these imitators with a strict focus on the highest possible quality standards for their products.
[00:09:30]  I brought this up last time.
[00:09:31]  They say there are no pure essential oils on the market.
[00:09:34]  That is the claim they make.
[00:09:36]  But I found counterclaims in a number of places.
[00:09:38]  Allegations that Young Living oils are, in fact, adulterated.
[00:09:42]  The most compelling of these allegations claim from a former distribution.
[00:09:44]  Done pornography.
[00:09:46]  They're adult.
[00:09:47]  The most compelling of these allegations came from a former distributor for the company in a blog post titled The Day Young Living Broke My Heart.
[00:09:53]  Now, I wouldn't normally use a personal blog like this as a source, but this person actually went to the trouble of having his oils tested at reputable laboratories, and he posted every piece of evidence on his blog, from like the shipping information to prove that he shipped it directly to the labs to like the results that the labs sent him.
[00:10:09]  What did they rip him off for?
[00:10:11]  I'll get to that.
[00:10:12]  Sorry.
[00:10:12]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:10:13]  It's actually, yeah, anyway, you can try.
[00:10:14]  That is motivated.
[00:10:15]  It is motivated, and it's like one of those things where I suspect this guy believes some things I don't believe about essential oils.
[00:10:21]  But he really, from a journalistic rigor point of view, did a good job of laying out his case and providing the evidence.
[00:10:27]  He's fired up.
[00:10:28]  He probably had a relationship where he's been like, I have to prove my points.
[00:10:33]  That's exactly what he got to.
[00:10:35]  So the writer's issue with Young Living came from their seed to seal guarantee, which promises that none of their oils have ever been adulterated or had anything added to them.
[00:10:43]  So this dude sent his cinnamon oil into a lab for testing and found that multiple synthetic chemicals were present inside it, including synthetic cinnamon, including a synthetic, there were a bunch of synthetic chemicals.
[00:10:53]  It smells like cinnamon.
[00:10:54]  I'm not going to try to read that fucking thing.
[00:10:56]  Yeah, it had a bunch of fake stuff in it.
[00:10:58]  Quote, tears filled my eyes as the reality of the situation began to sink in.
[00:11:03]  This is serious for him.
[00:11:04]  I know.
[00:11:05]  I know, but it's cinnamon, dude.
[00:11:08]  My close family use cinnamon bark internally, not to mention the sheer volume of Thieves' products, which is like one of their product lines that contain cinnamon.
[00:11:15]  I've attempted some conversations with my uplines about the issue, but merely got, don't worry, and I've used the products for years and I'm fine.
[00:11:22]  Quickly realizing that I would not get the answers I wanted from them and not knowing where else to turn, I sent an email to Young Living's chief operating officer, Jared Turner, and included a copy of the test report.
[00:11:30]  Hope and faith briefly returned when I received a reply from Jared thanking me for bringing the issue to his attention and promising me a reply.
[00:11:36]  But he never got a reply.
[00:11:38]  No.
[00:11:39]  Yeah.
[00:11:39]  So this guy is like a true believer who also seems to be a real big believer in the truth and was very frustrated by this and had been like advising his family to take this stuff medicinally.
[00:11:49]  And it's some serious hate.
[00:11:51]  It's not just saying here's a bunch of stuff.
[00:11:53]  So it's not just like the smell stuff.
[00:11:56]  No.
[00:11:57]  What I know essential oils to be.
[00:11:59]  Yeah, and there are some, there is some mild evidence that essential oils are useful in complementing traditional medical therapy from like a recovery standpoint.
[00:12:07]  Some very mild evidence that certain ones can be helpful therapeutically along with actual medicine in certain specific situations.
[00:12:15]  They don't cure you cancer.
[00:12:17]  Yeah.
[00:12:17]  But like Young Living is one of those companies where they're like, oh, you take this internally if you have this problem and this problem.
[00:12:22]  And so this guy was like having his family take this stuff and was horrified to realize that they were cutting it.
[00:12:28]  Which is essentially what's going on is these people are cutting it just like, you know, my Coke dealer used to do with baby laxative.
[00:12:34]  And it's just, you know, he was as angry as I was when I found out that I'd been cheated.
[00:12:38]  I find myself saying this a lot lately, is just quoting the jerk where he's like, oh, it's a profit deal.
[00:12:47]  Yeah, that's exactly what's going on here.
[00:12:50]  So yeah, this guy, this guy was very horrified and promised not to buy their products anymore.
[00:12:55]  But of course, not every Young Living devotee has his devotion to the truth.
[00:13:00]  In the first episode of this podcast series, I mentioned a review I found of Gary Young's wife-written biography on a website called Cultivating Mom.
[00:13:07]  Now, the author of this site was another distributor for Young Living, and she reviewed Gary Young's biography, and I found it deeply entertaining.
[00:13:15]  Here's what she wrote: You know what?
[00:13:16]  I'm going to give this a review.
[00:13:18]  Yeah.
[00:13:19]  I am a researcher.
[00:13:20]  It is in my blood.
[00:13:21]  So before I signed up to become a member of Young Living Essential Oils, I did my research.
[00:13:26]  Wow.
[00:13:26]  The negativity, vitriol, and blatant lies that abound on the internet have not left the father of essential oils.
[00:13:32]  She capitalized the first letter in every word of that.
[00:13:34]  Unscathed.
[00:13:35]  One thing that became clear was that there was no evidence to back up many of the claims against him, some of which, if they were true, would have landed him in jail as opposed to being the world leader of a global enterprise.
[00:13:45]  I chose to see the lies for what they were.
[00:13:46]  Vicious attacks on someone who has spent his whole life trying to help others.
[00:13:50]  That's why when this book came out, I could not wait to get my hands on it in order to finally hear the real story in the words of Gary's wife, Mary Young.
[00:13:57]  What?
[00:13:57]  Okay.
[00:13:58]  I mean, can we, can I just say real quick?
[00:14:00]  Yeah.
[00:14:01]  I just want you to imagine going to your wife and being like, hey, I got an idea.
[00:14:09]  Why don't you write a book about me?
[00:14:10]  Why don't you write a book about me?
[00:14:12]  About me.
[00:14:12]  About me.
[00:14:15]  People won't believe it if I write a book about me.
[00:14:17]  I can't do it.
[00:14:19]  Because of my humility.
[00:14:21]  And the head thing.
[00:14:22]  I don't type so good.
[00:14:24]  You know, I smash things.
[00:14:26]  But you could write.
[00:14:27]  I just keep breaking computers with an axe.
[00:14:32]  So, the review goes into detail about Gary's famous accident, which is discussed exhaustively in everything ever published about Gary Young.
[00:14:39]  The author hilariously writes this.
[00:14:41]  As Mary Young has always said, Gary does not like to talk about his accident that left him with the prognosis that he would be confined to a wheelchair for the rest of his life.
[00:14:48]  But she was able to put together the compelling story that takes the reader from Gary's depths of despair to his regaining his ability to walk.
[00:14:55]  So, still nothing about that brain.
[00:14:58]  Not a damn thing about that brain.
[00:15:00]  Now, this reviewer also notes: quote, the reader gets to walk with Gary through every expansion and farm purchase.
[00:15:06]  Reading about what he did in Ecuador is beyond belief.
[00:15:08]  After seeing the poverty and conditions at local schools, Gary decided he had to change what looked like a hopeless situation for the children of surrounding communities, out of which grew the Young Living Academy to teach and enable these children to have a bright future.
[00:15:19]  Now, hearing about Ecuador made me curious, and thankfully, I found a little bit more about Gary Young's work in Ecuador in that New Yorker article I've been quoting from.
[00:15:27]  You remember Sterling, the former COO of Young Living?
[00:15:30]  Yes.
[00:15:31]  Quote, Sterling says he was also alarmed by a video he saw of Young, whose only medical degree is a doctor and naturopathy from an unaccredited school, performing gallbladder surgery and giving essential oils intravenously at a clinic in Ecuador.
[00:15:44]  He's like, he found a place to commit surgery.
[00:15:47]  That's what it was.
[00:15:49]  It is committing surgery.
[00:15:53]  Yeah, it's like, I did some murders.
[00:15:55]  He said, I did some surgery.
[00:15:58]  God, how many Ecuadorians have died under Gary Youngson's scalpel?
[00:16:03]  I shouldn't be laughing, but he just is so relentless about wanting to perform medical operations.
[00:16:10]  This is a weird tick to be like, just to look at somebody and be like, you know, I can fix you.
[00:16:17]  I can fix you.
[00:16:18]  I'm just sitting here.
[00:16:19]  You know, I'm a doctor.
[00:16:20]  You came into my village and you want to cut me open.
[00:16:23]  He's like, no, I'm a doctor.
[00:16:25]  You got cancer.
[00:16:26]  I can tell it from your blood.
[00:16:27]  That's some Elizabeth Holmes shit, too.
[00:16:31]  You've got cancer.
[00:16:32]  It is weird that they both do like fingerprick blood tests.
[00:16:34]  It is the night.
[00:16:37]  I will say Gary Young's clinic's blood tests work as well as their system.
[00:16:45]  Because people were doing the same thing, too, like sending cats' blood and twins and stuff to Elizabeth Holmes.
[00:16:50]  I didn't hear about cats' blood, but yeah, their tests were not good.
[00:16:54]  Now, it turns out Gary Young only opened his clinic in Ecuador because a 2005 lawsuit closed his clinic in Utah.
[00:17:01]  Apparently, a young woman was prescribed so much vitamin C that her kidneys shut down, almost killing her.
[00:17:06]  She successfully sued the company, forcing Gary to hop to Ecuador to continue pretending to practice medicine.
[00:17:11]  A lot of vitamins.
[00:17:12]  That is way too much vitamin C.
[00:17:14]  So much that your kidneys are like, come on.
[00:17:16]  They're just like, nope.
[00:17:17]  What are you doing?
[00:17:18]  How many oranges are you eating?
[00:17:20]  You gotta get out of Utah.
[00:17:22]  And it was not any safer working on one of Gary's farms than being a patient in his clinics.
[00:17:27]  On August 17th, on August 17th, 2000, one of his homemade essential oil distillers ruptured at the lid, killing a worker at the Young Living Farm in Mona, Utah.
[00:17:38]  The farm was fined $10,280 for seven safety violations.
[00:17:42]  The Utah OSHA division reported: quote, the entire operation was designed by Gary Young president and built on site.

=== Free Market Warnings (04:16) ===

[00:17:48]  The vessels were not built under any consideration to American Society of Mechanical Engineers Code for Pressure Vessels.
[00:17:55]  No type of pressure relief device was installed on any of the vessels.
[00:17:59]  So he basically built bombs to distill stuff with you make more money if you don't do it the way the government says.
[00:18:07]  Because the government, they want you to do all these things, like not have your things explode in people's faces.
[00:18:13]  Which is fucking, that's why regulation's bad.
[00:18:16]  You have to wait.
[00:18:18]  And I don't wait.
[00:18:19]  Yeah.
[00:18:19]  The free market says your factory can be indistinguishable from an IED.
[00:18:25]  If I have a stuff, give me a thing.
[00:18:27]  That's what the free market says.
[00:18:29]  That's what Charles Cuck told me.
[00:18:34]  Did he tell you that in the free market, that's based on everyone starting from zero?
[00:18:39]  We're not going to do that.
[00:18:41]  Well, it's, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:18:43]  And he's got his axe.
[00:18:44]  Okay, I'm going to get out of here.
[00:18:46]  He's got his axe.
[00:18:47]  He does not like you talking about flaws in the free market.
[00:18:50]  So, speaking of free markets, it's Sophie's saying that's an okay product.
[00:19:01]  10-10 shots fired.
[00:19:02]  City hall building.
[00:19:04]  A silver .40 caliber handgun was recovered at the scene.
[00:19:08]  From iHeart Podcasts and Best Case Studios, this is Rorschach.
[00:19:13]  Murder at City Hall.
[00:19:14]  How could this have happened in City Hall?
[00:19:16]  Somebody tell me that, Jeffrey.
[00:19:17]  Hood July 2003.
[00:19:20]  Councilman James E. Davis arrives at New York City Hall with a guest.
[00:19:25]  Both men are carrying concealed weapons.
[00:19:28]  And in less than 30 minutes, both of them will be dead.
[00:19:37]  Everybody in the chamber's ducks.
[00:19:39]  A shocking public murder.
[00:19:41]  I scream, get down, get down.
[00:19:43]  Those are shots.
[00:19:43]  Those are shots.
[00:19:44]  Get down.
[00:19:45]  A charismatic politician.
[00:19:46]  You know, he just bent the rules all the time, man.
[00:19:49]  I still have a weapon, and I could shoot you.
[00:19:54]  And an outsider with a secret.
[00:19:56]  He alleged he was a victim of flat down.
[00:19:59]  That may or may not have been political.
[00:20:00]  That may have been about sex.
[00:20:02]  Listen to Rorschach, Murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:20:15]  There's two golden rules that any man should live by.
[00:20:19]  Rule one, never mess with a country girl.
[00:20:23]  You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes.
[00:20:25]  And rule two, never mess with her friends either.
[00:20:29]  We always say that, trust your girlfriends.
[00:20:33]  I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of The Girlfriends...
[00:20:37]  Oh my God, this is the same man.
[00:20:39]  A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist.
[00:20:43]  I felt like I got hit by a truck.
[00:20:45]  I thought, how could this happen to me?
[00:20:47]  The cops didn't seem to care.
[00:20:49]  So they take matters into their own hands.
[00:20:52]  I said, oh, hell no.
[00:20:54]  I vowed I will be his last target.
[00:20:56]  He's going to get what he deserves.
[00:21:01]  Listen to the girlfriends.
[00:21:02]  Trust me, babe.
[00:21:03]  On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:21:13]  Hey, I'm Nora Jones, and I love playing music with people so much that my podcast called Playing Along is back.
[00:21:19]  I sit down with musicians from all musical styles to play songs together in an intimate setting.
[00:21:23]  Every episode's a little different, but it all involves music and conversation with some of my favorite musicians.
[00:21:29]  Over the past two seasons, I've had special guests like Dave Grohl, Leve, Mavis Staples, Remy Wolf, Jeff Tweedy, really too many to name.
[00:21:39]  And this season, I've sat down with Alessia Cara, Sarah McLaughlin, John Legend, and more.
[00:21:44]  Check out my new episode with Josh Grobin.
[00:21:47]  You related to the Phantom at that point.
[00:21:50]  Yeah, I was definitely the Phantom in that.
[00:21:52]  That's so funny.
[00:21:53]  Sherry stay with me each night, each morning.
[00:22:02]  Say you love me.

=== MLM Money Schemes (14:55) ===

[00:22:04]  You know I.
[00:22:06]  So come hang out with us in the studio and listen to Playing Along on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:22:14]  I'm Laurie Siegel, and on Mostly Human, I go beyond the headlines with the people building our future.
[00:22:19]  This week, an interview with one of the most influential figures in Silicon Valley, OpenAI CEO Sam Altman.
[00:22:26]  I think society is going to decide that creators of AI products bear a tremendous amount of responsibility to products we put out in the world.
[00:22:33]  From power to parenthood.
[00:22:35]  Kids, teenagers, I think they will need a lot of guardrails around AI.
[00:22:38]  This is such a powerful and such a new thing.
[00:22:40]  From addiction to acceleration.
[00:22:42]  The world we live in is a competitive world, and I don't think that's going to stop, even if you get a lot of redistribution.
[00:22:47]  You know, we have a deep desire to excel and be competitive and gain status and be useful to others.
[00:22:54]  And it's a multiplayer game.
[00:22:56]  What does the man who has extraordinary influence over our lives have to say about the weight of that responsibility?
[00:23:02]  Find out on Mostly Human.
[00:23:04]  My highest order bit is to not destroy the world with AI.
[00:23:07]  Listen to Mostly Human on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
[00:23:21]  We're back!
[00:23:22]  We're talking about trash cans, trash can liquor, and how they help you have sex if you grew up in the deep south.
[00:23:28]  But that's all we're going to tell you about that.
[00:23:30]  You got to learn the rest for yourself.
[00:23:31]  Gonna go in there and find out for yourself.
[00:23:33]  Go down there and figure that out.
[00:23:37]  Okay, where the hell were we?
[00:23:38]  Right, so Gary Young had just shut down that woman's kidneys with vitamin C, started performing unregulated surgery in Ecuador, and he got that guy killed by building a bomb instead of a distiller on accident.
[00:23:48]  I've had a rough six months.
[00:23:54]  Oh, geez.
[00:23:55]  So, you can't make essential oils without breaking a few human beings.
[00:23:58]  And no amount of death and misery stopped the rocket-like growth of Young Living.
[00:24:02]  By the early 2000s, they were by far the largest essential oil vendor in the market.
[00:24:05]  It's hard to say exactly how large they were, but we're talking about hundreds of millions a year in revenue by this point.
[00:24:11]  Success.
[00:24:12]  Yeah.
[00:24:12]  Yeah, they're like a billion-dollar company now, or at least they claim to be and probably are.
[00:24:16]  Like, it's always with, they're an MLM, too.
[00:24:18]  So it's always like, yeah, they're a multi-level marketing.
[00:24:21]  I was going to say how they get their products out there.
[00:24:23]  Yeah, never mind.
[00:24:24]  They do sell a lot of, they're a very popular essential oil seller.
[00:24:28]  So they sell a lot of product, but a lot of their money comes from like the MLM thing where like you sign up to be a distributor, but the money is really in signing people up underneath you.
[00:24:37]  So again, not a pyramid.
[00:24:38]  Multi-level.
[00:24:39]  Yeah.
[00:24:40]  Legally distinct from a pyramid.
[00:24:42]  Just horseshit.
[00:24:45]  Yeah.
[00:24:46]  So we don't know exactly how much money, but it's a lot.
[00:24:48]  They're making a fuckload of money.
[00:24:49]  Well, and yeah, they don't really.
[00:24:52]  Yeah, it's hard to get a hard, a fuckload of money, is fair to say.
[00:24:55]  Jesus.
[00:24:55]  So success inspires imitators, companies eager to repeat Young Living's success in selling dubious healing oils, maybe without the fraudulent founder who kept getting arrested for pretending to be a doctor.
[00:25:05]  And in 2012, the most successful of these imitators, a company called Deuterra, had grown to be nearly as large as Young Living.
[00:25:12]  Some analysts suspected they were even larger.
[00:25:14]  That year, Gary directed his company to sue Deuterra for $350 million.
[00:25:19]  Now, Young Living alleged that Deuterra's founders had stolen both trade secrets and distributors from Young Living.
[00:25:24]  The court case rolled along slowly until in 2015, both companies announced that they had passed $1 billion in sales.
[00:25:31]  Now, it took about five years for the case to reach a civil jury trial, and on the second day, the smell of essential oils was so strong that the judge in the case complained of a headache and a stomachache and begged both sides to wear slightly fewer essential oils.
[00:25:43]  The jury eventually dropped all charges against Deuterra, and that was like 2017 or so, I think.
[00:25:48]  Yeah.
[00:25:49]  So basically their claim was, hey, you're doing our scam.
[00:25:52]  Yeah, you're doing our scam.
[00:25:53]  Stop doing our scam.
[00:25:54]  Stop doing our scam.
[00:25:55]  They took him to court and the judge was like, everyone smells too much.
[00:25:58]  I guess your scam is hurting me.
[00:26:02]  Please stop.
[00:26:03]  Physically hurting my brain.
[00:26:05]  In June 2017, the New Yorker sent a reporter to Young Living's Fulfill Your Destiny distributor convention in Salt Lake City.
[00:26:12]  Quote, the hallways were packed with good-natured, heavily fragrant people heading to workshops with names such as Yoga, a business tool, and essential care for animals.
[00:26:21]  They wore t-shirts that said essential oils.
[00:26:23]  Heck yeah, and there's an oil for that.
[00:26:26]  And I'm silently assessing your oil needs.
[00:26:29]  Never have I sneezed so much.
[00:26:30]  Never have I been blessed so enthusiastically when I sneezed.
[00:26:34]  We'll have the article up on our site.
[00:26:35]  It's a fun article.
[00:26:36]  Fulfill your destiny.
[00:26:38]  Give me $2,000.
[00:26:39]  I'll give you $2,000.
[00:26:41]  Maybe let me try delivering your baby in a hot tub.
[00:26:44]  I'm probably a doctor.
[00:26:46]  Are you the hot tub, baby?
[00:26:49]  By this point, Gary Young's company oil menu had grown to over 150 options, from basics like oregano and centronella to Christmas spirit.
[00:26:57]  Centronella?
[00:26:58]  Citronella.
[00:26:59]  That keeps the mosquitoes.
[00:27:00]  Yeah, that does.
[00:27:01]  Yeah, I've used a lot of, especially traveling without healthcare, I've used a number of different, like, I'm actually a big plant-based medicine nerd.
[00:27:08]  I make a lot of my own salves and poultices for injuries and stuff like that, just because I'm out in the middle of fucking nowhere a lot.
[00:27:13]  Like, there's plants like plantain and yarrow and comfrey that have real proven medicinal benefits, stuff like willow bark, which is where we get our aspirin from, that you can.
[00:27:21]  Well, we got chemicals from the earth to start with where the pills are.
[00:27:26]  Exactly.
[00:27:26]  They don't come from nowhere.
[00:27:27]  I mean, some of them do.
[00:27:28]  Some of them were just like switching atoms around at this point.
[00:27:30]  And it's crazy.
[00:27:31]  But like, this isn't.
[00:27:33]  Some of the stuff that works the best is still just fucking plants and shit.
[00:27:37]  Oh, man.
[00:27:37]  Speaking of plants, I don't know.
[00:27:40]  This is like a free ad just from marijuana.
[00:27:42]  It is.
[00:27:43]  Yeah, do it.
[00:27:46]  I feel like that's a great ad.
[00:27:47]  Just do marijuana.
[00:27:49]  Nike really has the best slogan ready if they start a pot brand.
[00:27:53]  Just do it.
[00:27:54]  Like medicinal marijuana.
[00:27:55]  Or not medicinal sports marijuana.
[00:27:57]  That'll happen.
[00:27:58]  CBD, all that.
[00:28:00]  CBD for your CTE.
[00:28:01]  Damn it, that's a good idea.
[00:28:03]  I know Kyle Turley.
[00:28:04]  I'll call him.
[00:28:05]  He'll make that shit happen.
[00:28:08]  Okay.
[00:28:09]  So, yeah.
[00:28:10]  Christmas spirit, which, quote, taps into the happiness, joy, and comfort with the holiday season.
[00:28:14]  There's dragon time to create feelings of stability and calm during cycles of moodiness, and of course, highest potential, which presumably helps you get rich as shit.
[00:28:22]  Now, this is probably a good place to get into just how exactly Nada Dr. Gary Young claimed his essential oils work.
[00:28:27]  Here's Dr. Eva Briggs dissecting some of Gary's claims from a book titled The Missing Link, where Gary lays out the scientific underpinnings of the essential oil chemistry.
[00:28:36]  Quote from Gary.
[00:28:38]  One of the primary agents in the blood that is responsible for the delivery of the nutrients through the cell walls is called oxygen.
[00:28:44]  Now, I'm not a big science guy.
[00:28:47]  Doesn't sound like a controversial statement to me because I'm dumb.
[00:28:50]  But Dr. Eva makes a good point.
[00:28:52]  Quote, animals do not have cell walls.
[00:28:54]  The most basic high school biology courses teach that only bacteria and plants have cell walls.
[00:28:59]  Animals do have cell membranes.
[00:29:02]  Gary, quote, you see, in the human body, we have a substance called blood, and that blood has a very specific purpose.
[00:29:08]  That purpose is to transport nutrients to cells.
[00:29:10]  Hold up, we've got what?
[00:29:11]  We've got what in there?
[00:29:13]  Okay, yeah, we'll hear it.
[00:29:14]  The purpose is to transport nutrients to the cells, to nurture and feed the cells.
[00:29:18]  When we look at essential oils, they have the same role and play the same function in the plant as blood does in the human body.
[00:29:23]  No.
[00:29:23]  No, that one even I know.
[00:29:25]  That's not what they do.
[00:29:26]  No.
[00:29:28]  But let's hear from Dr. Eva.
[00:29:29]  Essential oils do not transport nutrients to plant cells.
[00:29:33]  Phloem transports nutrients to plants, and xylem transports water.
[00:29:36]  Examples of the functions of essential oils and plants may include attracting beneficial organisms such as pollinators or repelling organisms that might eat or infect the plant, which is why Citronella does it.
[00:29:45]  That's like third and fourth grade cells.
[00:29:46]  That's real fucking basic.
[00:29:47]  Yes.
[00:29:48]  Yeah.
[00:29:49]  That's...
[00:29:49]  Yeah.
[00:29:50]  But he's really calling people's bluff is what he's doing.
[00:29:54]  Yeah, because you're not going to check that out if you're signing up to be a distributor in an MLM.
[00:29:58]  No.
[00:29:59]  You're just not.
[00:30:00]  I wouldn't have caught the cell walls thing because it's been too long and all I remember is that the fucking mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell.
[00:30:07]  Well, we both.
[00:30:09]  Yeah.
[00:30:09]  The essential oil thing where it takes it immediately like, I don't think that's how that works.
[00:30:14]  I don't think that's how that works.
[00:30:19]  I can't correct you on how it works, but I know that you're full of sheep.
[00:30:23]  If you're telling me this thing that burns when I put it on my skin is the same as blood, it's plant blood.
[00:30:31]  Yeah.
[00:30:31]  It's plant blood is what he's saying.
[00:30:34]  I don't feel like that's true either.
[00:30:35]  I feel like you're a doctor now.
[00:30:39]  Where's your baby again?
[00:30:42]  He's hot to me.
[00:30:44]  I keep coming back to the killed his own baby thing, but I feel like it's really worth dwelling on.
[00:30:48]  Well, it's also that thing, like the reviewer said, the lady's like, I read all these awful things about this man, and I just didn't believe them.
[00:30:56]  And it's like, well, there's newspaper articles from the 80s talking about that one.
[00:31:02]  But she does raise a good point.
[00:31:03]  She's like, why isn't he in jail?
[00:31:05]  And it is like, I'm with you on that one.
[00:31:06]  I'm with you on that one.
[00:31:08]  That is a good question.
[00:31:09]  Probably ought to be in jail.
[00:31:10]  But it sounds like also he always gets fined.
[00:31:13]  Like $10,000 seems to be a reoccurring fee.
[00:31:16]  So he's like an old hippie where he just carries around $10,000 for bail money.
[00:31:20]  He's like, this will get me out.
[00:31:21]  And then they throw you.
[00:31:22]  He's a little rich hippie.
[00:31:23]  He's like, they'll throw you in jail in Arkansas, so I always have $75 in my sock.
[00:31:30]  Now, go to Mexico and be a doctor again.
[00:31:33]  Yeah, they don't want anything.
[00:31:35]  Distributors are the lowest level of the young living hierarchy.
[00:31:38]  94% of members never rise higher than that.
[00:31:40]  The top of this legally distinct from a pyramid are people at the royal crowned diamond level, who make up less than one-tenth of one percent of Young Living.
[00:31:48]  Many of the speeches at the convention that the New Yorker went to were delivered by diamond-level distributors who earn a median monthly income of $32,000.
[00:31:56]  Now, almost no one at Young Living reaches that level, the few who do essentially act as posters for what might be possible to the hopeful masses.
[00:32:03]  One of the diamond level speakers that the New Yorker writer met built her business up while working as a TV anchor.
[00:32:09]  In other words, she had a platform completely impractical for 99% of distributors to ever build.
[00:32:13]  Oh, that helps.
[00:32:14]  Yeah, here's what she said to the assembled people at the convention.
[00:32:17]  There's nothing holding you back but yourself.
[00:32:19]  We all have the same oils.
[00:32:20]  We all have the same 24 hours in the day.
[00:32:22]  The only ones who don't make it to diamond are the ones who give up.
[00:32:25]  Anybody in this room can do it.
[00:32:27]  Very basic MLM stuff.
[00:32:28]  Yes.
[00:32:29]  Yeah.
[00:32:30]  It's your lack of effort.
[00:32:32]  Yeah, it is your lack of effort if you do not succeed with this.
[00:32:35]  Not in your built-in broadcasting.
[00:32:37]  Yeah.
[00:32:38]  Now, I'm sure you're not surprised to learn that 94% of Young Living's 2 million active members made less than a dollar in 2016.
[00:32:44]  Meanwhile, most Royal Crown diamond distributors made more than a million a year.
[00:32:48]  Most people would call this a pyramid, but it technically isn't for reasons lawyers can argue in court.
[00:32:52]  At the 2017 Fulfill Your Destiny convention, Gary Young made his entrance by riding into the convention center on a sled pulled by huskies.
[00:32:59]  The year before, he flew in on a zipline.
[00:33:02]  These garish introductions were necessary.
[00:33:04]  He was trying to hype up the launch of new oil blends.
[00:33:06]  In 2017, that blend was also called Fulfill Your Destiny.
[00:33:10]  $34 would get you five milliliters of black pepper, blue spruce, and frankincense.
[00:33:15]  Black pepper.
[00:33:16]  Black pepper.
[00:33:16]  Oh, that's ballsy.
[00:33:18]  Well, if you throw that in with the frankincense, which actually does, frankincense has some medicinal properties too.
[00:33:22]  Cool stuff that you can do with frankincense.
[00:33:24]  Not this way.
[00:33:25]  Gary claimed that this would open up your pineal gland.
[00:33:28]  Nope.
[00:33:28]  Nope.
[00:33:28]  No, it will not.
[00:33:29]  I know that for sure.
[00:33:31]  DMT opens the shit out of you.
[00:33:33]  Yeah, that's what I was going to say.
[00:33:34]  It's like, if he's selling DMT, I'm interested.
[00:33:37]  If you say, if he's making some fucking essential oil out of mimosa hostilis root bark, then I'll be like, okay, brother.
[00:33:43]  Yeah, that'll open your fucking pineal up.
[00:33:45]  You do have a bunch of stuff.
[00:33:45]  You just gotta smoke it out of a crack pipe.
[00:33:47]  Yes.
[00:33:49]  Yes.
[00:33:51]  Now, I guess we should be grateful he didn't try to inject any of this into his patients via IV, although he probably did, but in Ecuador.
[00:33:57]  Yeah.
[00:33:58]  Starting in the mid-aughts, frankincense became an increasing focus for Gary Young and his company.
[00:34:02]  He was apparently inspired by a trip to a market in Oman, where he saw thousands of bags of frankincense resin in the streets.
[00:34:08]  He built a distillery in Salala and in 2010 opened the first modern frankincense distillery in the world.
[00:34:14]  There's just one problem with that.
[00:34:16]  Producing essential oils at industrial capacity requires vastly more frankincense resin than the world's existing trees can supply.
[00:34:23]  According to Anginette DeCarlo, an environmental scientist focused on the plant, Young Living's demand threatens entire ecosystems in the Middle East and North Africa.
[00:34:31]  So, so, so, I'm trying to save some people's babies.
[00:34:35]  I need it to make me rich from my abundance oil.
[00:34:40]  This is actually a crucially important and undertold part of the essential oil story.
[00:34:43]  Despite their earth-friendly image and focus on pictures of wholesome farms, Young Living and its competitors are something of an environmental plague.
[00:34:49]  Before Gary Young, essential oils were a thing, but they weren't particularly popular.
[00:34:53]  Tens of millions of people were not constantly dolloping their body in frankincense and myrrh and oregano and lemon peel.
[00:34:59]  The market for these products has increased tenfold in just the last couple of decades.
[00:35:03]  And producing essential oils is not easy on Mother Earth.
[00:35:06]  The Earth Island Journal notes, quote, In order to produce a single pound of essential oil, enormous quantities of plants are required.
[00:35:13]  10,000 pounds of rose petals, 250 pounds of lavender, 6,000 pounds of Melissa plant, 1,500 lemons, and so forth.
[00:35:21]  That sounds like R. Kelly's studio orders.
[00:35:23]  Yeah, it kind of does.
[00:35:24]  We need more rose petals.
[00:35:25]  We need more rose petals.
[00:35:27]  So where do all these thousands and thousands and thousands of plants come from?
[00:35:31]  Quote, the majority of popular essential oils companies source their raw materials from corporate farms that turn out large quantities of plants.
[00:35:37]  As with the cultivation of products on many large farms, pesticide usage is just common, and there's currently no organic certification specifically for essential oils, which large companies like Young Living and DoTerra cite as a reason for foregoing organic certification altogether.
[00:35:50]  In the end, consumers are left largely on their own when it comes to discovering which pesticides are used on crops that are used for essential oils, especially since most companies aren't voluntarily giving up that information.
[00:36:00]  You're putting pesticides on your body, which is also true if you're smoking weed, by the way.
[00:36:04]  Just haven't been out to a lot of those farms.
[00:36:06]  You can't trust when they say there's not pesticides on them unless you know the grower.
[00:36:10]  You can't.
[00:36:11]  Yeah, there's pesticides on all of them, Dan.
[00:36:12]  Yeah, man.
[00:36:13]  I've been through so many of those fields.
[00:36:15]  And if you wear, they wear Tyvek suits to spray them down.
[00:36:19]  They look like there's chemicals on all of it.
[00:36:21]  And you know how you can tell if it's got it on there?
[00:36:24]  That harsh burn after you smoke it?
[00:36:27]  Because if you go to Eugene where they do all the organic stuff, it does not have that.
[00:36:31]  And they're still, even then, they still have to wear the suits because they're using like sulfur and stuff rather than the chemical for like pesticides.
[00:36:38]  Like you still have to keep the pests off it.
[00:36:40]  Yeah.
[00:36:40]  Like it just depends on what you use for it.
[00:36:42]  They use different bugs too.
[00:36:43]  Sometimes.
[00:36:44]  Yeah, you can't let fucking mites get on those things.
[00:36:46]  You lose tens of thousands of dollars in a day.
[00:36:49]  Crazy.
[00:36:49]  Crazy.
[00:36:50]  You know what else is crazy?
[00:36:51]  The value of the products and services that are about to be advertised to your ears.
[00:36:56]  That is crazy.

=== Organic Farm Secrets (03:25) ===

[00:37:00]  10-10 shots fired in the city hall building.
[00:37:03]  A silver .40 caliber handgun was recovered at the scene.
[00:37:07]  From iHeart Podcasts and Best Case Studios, this is Rorschach.
[00:37:12]  Murder at City Hall.
[00:37:13]  How could this have happened in City Hall?
[00:37:15]  Somebody tell me that, Jeffrey Hood.
[00:37:17]  July 2003.
[00:37:19]  Councilman James E. Davis arrives at New York City Hall with a guest.
[00:37:24]  Both men are carrying concealed weapons.
[00:37:27]  And in less than 30 minutes, both of them will be dead.
[00:37:36]  Everybody in the chamber's ducks.
[00:37:38]  A shocking public murder.
[00:37:40]  I screamed, get down, get down.
[00:37:42]  Those are shots.
[00:37:42]  Those are shots.
[00:37:43]  Get down.
[00:37:44]  A charismatic politician.
[00:37:45]  You know, he just bent the rules all the time, man.
[00:37:48]  I still have a weapon.
[00:37:50]  And I could shoot you.
[00:37:53]  And an outsider with a secret.
[00:37:55]  He alleged he was a victim of flat down.
[00:37:58]  That may or may not have been political.
[00:37:59]  That may have been about sex.
[00:38:01]  Listen to Rorschach, murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:38:14]  There's two golden rules that any man should live by.
[00:38:18]  Rule one, never mess with a country girl.
[00:38:22]  You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes.
[00:38:24]  And rule two, never mess with her friends either.
[00:38:28]  We always say, trust your girlfriends.
[00:38:32]  I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of The Girlfriends...
[00:38:36]  Oh my God, this is the same man.
[00:38:38]  A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist.
[00:38:42]  I felt like I got hit by a truck.
[00:38:44]  I thought, how could this happen to me?
[00:38:46]  The cops didn't seem to care.
[00:38:48]  So they take matters into their own hands.
[00:38:51]  I said, oh, hell no.
[00:38:53]  I vowed I will be his last target.
[00:38:55]  He's going to get what he deserves.
[00:39:00]  Listen to the girlfriends.
[00:39:01]  Trust me, babe.
[00:39:02]  On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:39:12]  Hey, I'm Nora Jones, and I love playing music with people so much that my podcast called Playing Along is back.
[00:39:18]  I sit down with musicians from all musical styles to play songs together in an intimate setting.
[00:39:22]  Every episode's a little different, but it all involves music and conversation with some of my favorite musicians.
[00:39:28]  Over the past two seasons, I've had special guests like Dave Grohl, Leve, Mavis Staples, Remy Wolf, Jeff Tweedy.
[00:39:36]  Really too many to name.
[00:39:38]  And this season, I've sat down with Alessia Cara, Sarah McLaughlin, John Legend, and more.
[00:39:43]  Check out my new episode with Josh Grobin.
[00:39:46]  You related to the Phantom at that point.
[00:39:49]  Yeah, I was definitely the Phantom in that.
[00:39:51]  That's so funny.
[00:39:52]  Share each day with me each night, each morning.
[00:40:01]  Say you love me.
[00:40:03]  You know I.
[00:40:05]  So come hang out with us in the studio and listen to Playing Along on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:40:13]  I'm Lori Siegel, and on Mostly Human, I go beyond the headlines with the people building our future.
[00:40:18]  This week, an interview with one of the most influential figures in Silicon Valley, OpenAI CEO Sam Altman.

=== Essential Oil Claims (15:30) ===

[00:40:25]  I think society is going to decide that creators of AI products bear a tremendous amount of responsibility to products we put out in the world.
[00:40:32]  From power to parenthood.
[00:40:34]  Kids, teenagers, I think they will need a lot of guardrails around AI.
[00:40:37]  This is such a powerful and such a new thing.
[00:40:39]  From addiction to acceleration.
[00:40:41]  The world we live in is a competitive world, and I don't think that's going to stop, even if you get a lot of redistribution.
[00:40:46]  You know, we have a deep desire to excel and be competitive and gain status and be useful to others.
[00:40:52]  And it's a multiplayer game.
[00:40:55]  What does the man who has extraordinary influence over our lives have to say about the weight of that responsibility?
[00:41:01]  Find out on Mostly Human.
[00:41:03]  My highest order bit is to not destroy the world with AI.
[00:41:06]  Listen to Mostly Human on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
[00:41:20]  We're back!
[00:41:21]  We're talking about essential oils.
[00:41:23]  Now, it is possible that Young Living, the company founded by a man who drowned his own baby on accident, repeatedly impersonated a doctor, hold itself to the most stringent safety and environmental standards.
[00:41:34]  Fun fact, Young Living recently pled guilty to illegally trafficking rosewood oil in from Peru, where the plant is a threatened species.
[00:41:40]  The company was also found to be illegally sourcing Spicknard oil from Nepal.
[00:41:43]  They were fined $3.5 million.
[00:41:45]  That's not the only regulatory trouble the company got into, of course.
[00:41:49]  In 2014, Gary Young's business ran afoul of the FDA.
[00:41:52]  Quote from the FDA.
[00:41:54]  Based on our review, FDA has determined that many of your Young Living essential oil products, such as, but not limited to, thieves, cinnamon bark, oregano, immunu power, rosemary, myrtle, sandalwood, eucalyptus blue, peppermint, ylanglang, frankincense, and orange are promoted for conditions that cause them to be drugs under section 201G1B of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act because they are intended for use in diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease.
[00:42:19]  Now, the FDA pulls some specific examples of the most egregious lies literally printed in Young Living brochures and on their products.
[00:42:25]  Among those lies, Young Living seemed hell-bent on convincing its consumers that their essential oils could prevent Ebola.
[00:42:31]  Quote, viruses, including Ebola, are no match for Young Living essential oils.
[00:42:36]  Under the subheading Top Oil Choices for Viruses, top on my list is Thieves.
[00:42:40]  Thieves is highly antimicrobial.
[00:42:42]  It could help against Ebola.
[00:42:43]  And Ebola virus cannot live in the presence of cinnamon bark nor oregano.
[00:42:49]  Good to know.
[00:42:50]  Interesting.
[00:42:51]  Somebody should maybe let all those people in Africa know that they just need more cinnamon.
[00:42:59]  It's just drop cinnamon.
[00:43:03]  It's the sprinkle it.
[00:43:06]  It's just, god damn it.
[00:43:08]  It's that saying about famous people.
[00:43:10]  Like, if they were nice before they got famous, they're going to be extra nice when they're famous.
[00:43:15]  Or if they were like whatever they like before they were famous.
[00:43:18]  It's like, it's the same about these motherfuckers where they're like, they're shitty on whatever level, and then they get access and money, and then they're going to be shitty on this giant level.
[00:43:29]  Yeah, they're just, it just gets bigger.
[00:43:31]  Where they're fucking up countries instead of states.
[00:43:34]  Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what they do.
[00:43:36]  Like, they start with like fucking up their own life and drowning their baby in a hot tub.
[00:43:39]  Yes.
[00:43:39]  And then move on to fucking up ecosystems and convincing millions of people that they can kiribola with cinnamon.
[00:43:46]  That's exactly what they're doing.
[00:43:49]  Yeah.
[00:43:50]  Now, Young Living has its own experts, like aromatherapist David Stewart, who argue that doctors like Eva Briggs and those hacks at the FDA don't understand that essential oils have their own divine intelligence, which allowed them to heal without harming people, providing ourselves with everything ourselves need.
[00:44:05]  Whoa, What's that?
[00:44:07]  You don't have to off-base to you?
[00:44:11]  I just want to.
[00:44:12]  I need to sum up and say out loud what I think that that person just said was that essential oils have their own.
[00:44:21]  They're choosing to heal you, yeah.
[00:44:23]  So they're sentient?
[00:44:25]  Yeah.
[00:44:25]  Yeah, it seems like it.
[00:44:26]  Well, I'll read the quote.
[00:44:27]  I'll read the quote from David Stewart, and you let me know what it seems like he's saying.
[00:44:32]  The molecules of a therapeutic-grade essential oil form a harmonious, coherent, functional family designed and intended to serve us and heal us according to the highest will of their creator and our creator, who is one and the same, God.
[00:44:44]  Which really ties into what you were saying about the owner's manual and him thinking he's God because he's the one making all this bullshit.
[00:44:49]  Yes, he thinks it's his manual.
[00:44:52]  It's his manual.
[00:44:54]  Wow, he got knocked in the head and now he's God.
[00:44:58]  We really, really should do more research on head injuries.
[00:45:02]  You just got, if something happened, you got to watch them.
[00:45:06]  Doesn't mean that anything bad.
[00:45:07]  A lot of people have them.
[00:45:08]  They're fine.
[00:45:09]  Go on to be doctors and politicians and there's nothing wrong with it.
[00:45:12]  But keep an eye on it.
[00:45:13]  If they keep pretending to be a doctor and maybe drown their baby.
[00:45:16]  Keep an eye on some of them.
[00:45:18]  Yeah.
[00:45:20]  I wanted to get an idea of exactly how Gary himself built the scientific efficacy of his essential oils.
[00:45:25]  I found a video of him from the mid-aughts.
[00:45:27]  In it, he and his interviewer are standing in a snowy forest.
[00:45:29]  He has a chainsaw in his hands.
[00:45:31]  And we're going to watch this video.
[00:45:32]  And I want to make sure that the video is turned towards him.
[00:45:34]  So you should see G. Young.
[00:45:37]  I got a robot axe.
[00:45:39]  He's going to tell you how balsam wood works.
[00:45:42]  If the viewers could see it, he is wearing a healthy male.
[00:45:45]  It is so exotic and so exquisite.
[00:45:48]  Can you tell us about the health properties of balsam oil?
[00:45:52]  Oh, it is, Terry.
[00:45:54]  It's very exciting because first I did the studies seven years ago in our clinic in Utah before I sold it.
[00:46:02]  And that was phenomenal because, as we know, cortisol is a hormone in the body and it's referred to as a death hormone.
[00:46:10]  But cortisol is what makes it age prematurely.
[00:46:13]  It's what reduces the immune system.
[00:46:16]  Or a compromise immune system, cortisol levels are always high.
[00:46:20]  We also see that people who experience depression have high levels of cortisol.
[00:46:28]  When the body is high with cortisol, it also produces high acid levels.
[00:46:34]  And I thought, there's something to this balsam oil besides other things that I was looking for.
[00:46:40]  So we started doing a study in the clinic, and lo and behold, we discovered that just breathing the aroma from the oil through the distillation was lowering cortisol.
[00:46:53]  So, god damn it.
[00:46:56]  Can I describe a corrective?
[00:46:58]  Yeah, go for it.
[00:46:59]  First of all, he's dressed like a lumberjack, like straight up lumberjack.
[00:47:03]  Holding a chainsaw.
[00:47:04]  He's holding like a commercial chainsaw.
[00:47:07]  Like, that's a...
[00:47:08]  That's a...
[00:47:10]  But he's just leaning on it.
[00:47:12]  He's not actually holding it.
[00:47:13]  He's leaning on it in the way that you don't with a commercial chainsaw if you're a lumberjack.
[00:47:18]  It's just a very, and what he's describing is very confusing to what he's presenting visually.
[00:47:24]  You know what I mean?
[00:47:25]  Like, because he's also describing like he's a doctor, but he looks like a lumberjack.
[00:47:30]  Looks like he's about to finish this interview for his company's official video and then start chopping some trees.
[00:47:35]  He's like, we got some work today.
[00:47:37]  We're down.
[00:47:37]  A man didn't call in.
[00:47:39]  But here, hey, you got a little lump.
[00:47:41]  I'll take care of it tomorrow.
[00:47:43]  You know what?
[00:47:44]  I got this chainsaw.
[00:47:45]  Why didn't I just give it a try?
[00:47:46]  Well, and it also, like, lets me in.
[00:47:48]  I had this picture of, like, a more of a schmoozy salesman type.
[00:47:53]  Yeah.
[00:47:54]  But he's not.
[00:47:55]  He's got this earnest way of him.
[00:47:58]  I can see why people who don't know anything about medicine would find him convincing.
[00:48:02]  Yes.
[00:48:02]  Because he's not a.
[00:48:04]  Yeah, he's not like what you'd think a snake oil salesman would be.
[00:48:07]  No, he's not like Lyle Lanley.
[00:48:08]  Like he's, he seems like he's like a, like a, he seems like a country doctor, like a doctor who would like work in a town that is a one-room schoolhouse.
[00:48:17]  Yeah, like, he's, yeah, no, he does, like, he reminds me of one of my grandpa's friends who's like also a lawyer, but also the dairy farmer.
[00:48:24]  Yeah.
[00:48:25]  You know what I mean?
[00:48:25]  Yeah.
[00:48:26]  Yeah, one of those people out in the sticks who does farming and also does like a like serious professional trade like medicine or law.
[00:48:34]  Like he, he does, he look, he feel, like, probably because he grew up around a bunch of those people and decided to do that, but without going to school.
[00:48:39]  Well, that's, that's what I was just thinking like while we were talking about, I was like, that's what has happened is a tree fell on his head.
[00:48:46]  He doesn't have the ability, but he has picked up on this kind of hokey.
[00:48:52]  Probably after the tree fell on him, the county doctor came over and printed on him.
[00:48:58]  Yes, that's who he was around the most.
[00:49:00]  He's like, I'm going to be a doctor now.
[00:49:02]  Oh, boy.
[00:49:02]  We figured him out.
[00:49:03]  We figured him out.
[00:49:04]  Too late, but we figured him out.
[00:49:07]  This kind of rhetoric and these claims of great healing potential have consequences.
[00:49:10]  The Atlantic Institute is a pro-essential oil aromatherapy organization, but one that urges responsible use of the substances rather than treating them as cure-alls with their own divine intelligence.
[00:49:19]  I found a fun 2014 article where they list the 10 worst side effects suffered by people misapplying essential oils.
[00:49:26]  Most of them sound utterly terrifying, but fairly minor.
[00:49:28]  Like this, quote, undiluted oil on mouth sores.
[00:49:31]  Between 25 and 35 drops of essential oil on canker sores in mouth or tongue after being told it was safe.
[00:49:36]  This resulted in a trip to the ER because of racing heart, panicking, gagging, dry heating, extremely hot fever, dizzy, sick, and high blood pressure.
[00:49:44]  I thought I was going to die.
[00:49:45]  Yes, I bet you did.
[00:49:47]  I bet you did.
[00:49:48]  Don't do that.
[00:49:49]  I did the thing and then I died.
[00:49:51]  Yeah, then I almost died.
[00:49:53]  Well, we're getting to that.
[00:49:54]  Now, the most serious side effect I found evidence of came from somebody dosing themselves with what is known in the crazy part of the essential oil community as a morphine bomb.
[00:50:03]  Now, this does not include morphine, which I would be ordering it right now if it did.
[00:50:07]  This is a mix of balsam fir oil, the oil Gary was talking about in that video, with Cobiba, which I have not heard of, and frankincense.
[00:50:14]  The most prominent recipe I found for the morphine bomb was by Kaylin Bax, a distributor with Young Living Essential Oils.
[00:50:20]  All the oils in the recipe are, of course, made by Young Living.
[00:50:22]  We'll have a picture of her recipe up on the site.
[00:50:25]  Here's what one person experienced after taking a morphine bomb for extreme pain.
[00:50:29]  Quote, they advertised it could be used via inhalation on skin or ingested.
[00:50:33]  I trusted this combination would alleviate my pain due to their claims.
[00:50:36]  Within a few hours of ingesting the oils, I began having racing heart, shortness of breath, pressure in my chest that radiated to my back, up my left jaw and down my left arm.
[00:50:44]  The symptoms continued and I eventually experienced cold sweatshirt and nausea.
[00:50:47]  The symptoms did not go away.
[00:50:49]  I went to a hospital.
[00:50:50]  They gave me an EKG, blood work, and a CAT scan.
[00:50:52]  They determined I was having a heart attack.
[00:50:54]  I remained hospitalized for three days and underwent a heart catheterization.
[00:50:58]  Thank God Gary Young was not catheterizing that heart.
[00:51:02]  I can do it.
[00:51:03]  No, I know how to do it.
[00:51:04]  Let me get my chainsaw.
[00:51:05]  Get over a doc.
[00:51:06]  Let me get in there.
[00:51:08]  Let me just root around in that for a little bit.
[00:51:10]  You got any fishing line?
[00:51:15]  I learned this in Ecuador.
[00:51:18]  He's got that.
[00:51:21]  The way he said it, it felt like he knew what he was talking about.
[00:51:24]  Yeah.
[00:51:24]  It was clear he did not.
[00:51:26]  It was clear he did not.
[00:51:27]  Blood shot out like that.
[00:51:31]  On the subject of the amazing ability of essential oils to divinely analyze your health and provide yourselves with everything they need, and nothing they don't, I found a Reddit AMA with a former Young Living employee.
[00:51:40]  This employee claimed, obliquely, that Gary Young pressured his employees about how to vote in 2016.
[00:51:46]  Hell yeah.
[00:51:46]  Yeah.
[00:51:47]  Quote: One of the biggest stories I heard was that he called a company-wide meeting around election season and basically told everybody that they should be voting for a certain political candidate.
[00:51:54]  Won't mention who.
[00:51:55]  This does not need to be a political debate.
[00:51:57]  Many people were scared that they would lose their job if they didn't vote a certain way, so it took an assurance from the executive team, not Gary, to ease everyone's minds.
[00:52:04]  So, don't know who he was urging him to vote for?
[00:52:07]  Got some theories?
[00:52:08]  I have an inclination.
[00:52:10]  I have an inclination.
[00:52:12]  Because it feels like a tactic that the certain politician would use.
[00:52:15]  It does feel like that.
[00:52:17]  It does feel like that.
[00:52:18]  This employee had also had several hilarious stories of these divine oils badly injuring people.
[00:52:24]  Quote, The greatest story I have to tell is about when I had a woman who called in because she read something that putting that oregano in her sports bra would help her losing weight.
[00:52:31]  Ended up with her burning her breasts, reported to the FDA and was given a full refund.
[00:52:35]  FDA is literally breathing out of the company's neck, so they are very compliant.
[00:52:40]  Quote: One of the worst adverse reaction cases we had was when a guy's wife had followed another boss babes recipe for eye drops that included thieves and peppermint oil.
[00:52:49]  The poor guy was given the drops, and not only did it burn to high hell, but the guy's eye was, to put it simply, a color it never should have been.
[00:52:57]  Honey, come here, I made some homemade eye drops.
[00:53:00]  These are better than what the doctor gave you.
[00:53:02]  God.
[00:53:04]  Now, boss babes is a term people in that subreddit, which is focused on like MLMs and stuff, use to describe people like the lady who wrote that fawning review of Gary Young's autobiography or the lady who wrote the morphine bomb recipe.
[00:53:15]  They are women, mostly young mothers, who attempt and occasionally succeed in building distribution networks for young living products.
[00:53:20]  Many of these people wind up desperate to move product, which is what leads them to stretch further and further the sort of claims they make about what exactly essential oils can do.
[00:53:28]  One questioner in the Reddit thread asks, quote, why do these oil MLMs promote putting this stuff on animals when many are knowingly toxic to animals?
[00:53:35]  Is corporate okay with the claims that this stuff is fine to use on animals?
[00:53:38]  To which the OP replied, quote, their stance is very confusing as they would not shut down recipients for animals, but they also would heavily promote their animal line of products that they claim would work with some off-brand PETA instead of suggesting regular oils.
[00:53:50]  I would always tell members it's not safe at all, though.
[00:53:53]  Now, if that's true, this person was distinctly not in line with his company's values.
[00:53:57]  In January of 2018, Olman's Facebook post went viral when she warned that she had accidentally poisoned her cat by getting a eucalyptus essential oil diffuser.
[00:54:05]  Eucalyptus, for everyone listening, is toxic to cats.
[00:54:08]  Don't keep eucalyptus in your house if you got fucking cats.
[00:54:11]  I don't know if it's bad for dogs, too.
[00:54:13]  Maybe look into that, but it's fucking bad for cats.
[00:54:16]  Now, the post was shared something like 700,000 times and prompted warnings from the ASPCA about exposing pets to essential oils.
[00:54:22]  BuzzFeed notes, quote, Neither do Terra nor Young Living immediately return questions from BuzzFeed News about their products and animals.
[00:54:29]  However, on its website, Young Living states that you can absolutely use its products on your animals.
[00:54:34]  So that's great.
[00:54:35]  Absolutely.
[00:54:36]  Absolutely.
[00:54:37]  They may kill them, but you can do it.
[00:54:40]  You can.
[00:54:40]  Absolutely do that.
[00:54:41]  100%.
[00:54:42]  You shouldn't, but you can.
[00:54:44]  Uh-huh.
[00:54:45]  Gary Young died in Salt Lake City on May 12th, 2018, after a series of terrible strokes that all his essential oils were tragically unable to prevent.
[00:54:52]  He is survived by millions of Young Life distributors and, in a very real sense, dozens of spiritual children who have picked up on his methods and created their own dangerous medical scams in Gary Young's own image.
[00:55:03]  In June of 2018, James Joseph Martin of West Sacramento, California was sentenced to one year in jail and five years probation after pleading no contest to three felony counts of practicing medicine without a license.
[00:55:14]  He had been going by the name Dr. James Martin, DPSC.
[00:55:18]  Now, you may not have heard of a PSCD or DPSC.
[00:55:22]  It sounds like a PhD, so most people don't question it.
[00:55:26]  Here's what the website Credential Watch says.
[00:55:28]  Quote: Hundreds of practitioners are using the credentials PSCD or DPSC and/or Doctor of Pastoral Medicine to promote their services.
[00:55:36]  These titles come from the Texas-based Pastoral Medicine Association, which licenses practitioners and registers prospective patients as members who wish to receive care from these providers.
[00:55:46]  The PMA, which is headquartered in Irving, Texas, describes itself as a private ecclesiastical membership association with a mission to promote scripture-based health and wellness concepts.

=== Scripture-Based Health (11:30) ===

[00:55:56]  That's yep.
[00:55:57]  A lot of the best doctors get their training from the scripture.
[00:56:01]  From the scripture.
[00:56:01]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:56:02]  Old Testament.
[00:56:03]  Exactly.
[00:56:04]  A lot of medicines based on the Old Testament.
[00:56:07]  On the Old Testament.
[00:56:08]  So that's just great.
[00:56:09]  The Directory of Doctors who have received this degree includes more than 2,200 names.
[00:56:13]  So while Gary Young may be dead, you can rest easy knowing that thousands upon thousands of other fake doctors have taken up his mantle and are probably delivering children with dangerously little qualifications and oversight right now.
[00:56:23]  Wow, just Airbnb doctors going Airbnbs.
[00:56:27]  Filter out, is there a hot tub?
[00:56:29]  Is there a hot tub?
[00:56:31]  We can get that baby out of you, ma'am.
[00:56:32]  That is.
[00:56:34]  I was just thinking, like, is that a mental illness where you're like, no, I'm a doctor, where you're just like, I wonder.
[00:56:41]  Or is it conniving where you're like, they go home every day?
[00:56:45]  I can't believe this shit works, man.
[00:56:46]  This is crazy.
[00:56:47]  I feel like with Gary, it is more on the illness side of things just because when he got rich, he didn't stop.
[00:56:53]  If it was just about money and wanting to pretend to be a doctor for money, why would you be doing surgery still after you've got hundreds of millions of dollars?
[00:57:00]  It does feel like that's like an urge.
[00:57:01]  He really wants to be a doctor.
[00:57:03]  I won't get in there and fix what's going on.
[00:57:05]  I don't think anything's going on there.
[00:57:08]  Let me get in there.
[00:57:08]  Let me get in there.
[00:57:10]  Every now and then he just stare at where I think my appendix was in a way that I'd only seen men look at my dips before.
[00:57:19]  I want to cut you open.
[00:57:20]  I want to cut you open.
[00:57:21]  Let me get an axe.
[00:57:22]  I'm a doctor.
[00:57:24]  I am a doctor.
[00:57:26]  But then he's frustrating because he's also very competent.
[00:57:33]  It's certain things, exceptionally so.
[00:57:36]  And then other things, no fucking clue at all.
[00:57:39]  No.
[00:57:40]  I'm going to guess that gallbladder surgery in Ecuador did not probably not go well.
[00:57:44]  No.
[00:57:46]  There's still, they still tell that story like when the white man came and opened up our cousin.
[00:57:51]  That was a crazy thing.
[00:57:52]  We don't know what he took, but it was not his gallbladder.
[00:57:55]  He is not allowed back in this village.
[00:57:58]  If you came from Ecuador and know anything about what the fuck Gary Young was doing down there, please reach out.
[00:58:05]  That would be throw us a line.
[00:58:07]  It is fun.
[00:58:07]  I mean, how far he went, billions.
[00:58:10]  Yeah.
[00:58:10]  And what cracks me up is like, it's just one word removed from snake oil.
[00:58:16]  Yeah.
[00:58:16]  Which is cliche.
[00:58:19]  He was literally selling oil that he claimed could cure all your problems, but he called it essential and not snake.
[00:58:25]  Yeah.
[00:58:26]  Yeah.
[00:58:26]  And people are like, just put it on me.
[00:58:29]  Yeah.
[00:58:29]  And the focus on oils is in part because it's so expensive.
[00:58:32]  Because if you're actually, if you actually spend any amount of time caring about like sort of, you know, like the non-woo bullshit side of like natural plant-based medicine, you just buy plants.
[00:58:41]  Yeah.
[00:58:41]  It's very you can get pounds of most of the stuff that does anything good for pretty cheap.
[00:58:45]  Yeah.
[00:58:45]  Even if you're using frankincense and myrrh, a couple of bucks for like a, like it's not that expensive to get like a lot of it.
[00:58:51]  But essential oils are expensive as fuck.
[00:58:53]  You got to do the thing.
[00:58:54]  You got to do the thing and then adulterate it with a bunch of stuff so it's cheaper for you.
[00:58:57]  And then, yeah, it's, it's.
[00:59:00]  An odd scam.
[00:59:01]  An odd scam.
[00:59:02]  And they don't work.
[00:59:03]  They don't do it.
[00:59:04]  Like there's a lot of stuff that like, yeah, there's some health benefits to this, but like not to the essential oil.
[00:59:10]  There's no evidence that that does anything.
[00:59:11]  Well, it's got its own brain.
[00:59:13]  Yeah.
[00:59:13]  And it's got its own brain.
[00:59:15]  Figure out what's wrong with you and it will go to there and fix it.
[00:59:18]  Which is very similar to fucking Elizabeth Holmes scam.
[00:59:22]  Very similar.
[00:59:23]  If we're just going to go.
[00:59:24]  She just said it was science.
[00:59:26]  Yeah, yeah, and her thing was like, for this tiny drop of blood, we'll know what's wrong with you.
[00:59:32]  My favorite lie of hers was the uh, we can tell if you ate something bad.
[00:59:37]  Yeah, that's the one where I was like, I was like, who even I know, like, that's not how that works.
[00:59:43]  Elizabeth, you were you went to school for this for a year and a half.
[00:59:47]  Like, I spent more time than that learning Arabic, and all I can remember is how to say United Nations.
[00:59:52]  I took way more than that in Spanish, and I can, I live in a Spanish neighborhood, yeah, barely communicate.
[00:59:58]  Yeah, it's like I'm gonna guess you don't learn all that much about blood science in your first two and a half semesters.
[01:00:07]  I figured it out.
[01:00:08]  Yeah, well, that one lady is like, No, you didn't.
[01:00:11]  No, no, you did not.
[01:00:13]  No, you did not.
[01:00:13]  It's very hard.
[01:00:14]  It takes like a decade.
[01:00:16]  I want you to, but you didn't.
[01:00:18]  But you don't know what you're talking about.
[01:00:19]  And she just Heisman her, just stiff-armed her and moved on.
[01:00:22]  Yeah.
[01:00:23]  And then didn't blink at all those old days.
[01:00:25]  That's what they all do.
[01:00:26]  Well, yeah.
[01:00:28]  Yeah.
[01:00:29]  But that's the same, it's the same scam.
[01:00:31]  They're all the same.
[01:00:32]  All of these scammers are the same.
[01:00:33]  Whether or not they're tricking Joe Biden into thinking their blood testing machines work or tricking single moms into thinking that oregano oil is the right kind of eye drop to use.
[01:00:43]  Like they're all the same person.
[01:00:44]  Well, and it's like any setback wasn't like a real setback for them.
[01:00:48]  I think that's the amazing mental trick they do.
[01:00:52]  They're very mentally resilient people.
[01:00:54]  Yes.
[01:00:54]  Yeah.
[01:00:54]  Because most people would be like, okay, what is fucking me up here?
[01:00:58]  Yeah.
[01:00:59]  Because I get to a point every time and then I have to leave.
[01:01:02]  Oh, it's because I'm not a doctor.
[01:01:04]  Yeah.
[01:01:04]  But I seem capable enough I could go to medical school.
[01:01:07]  I feel like I'm a doctor.
[01:01:09]  You know what?
[01:01:10]  I'm a doctor.
[01:01:11]  I'm just going to keep saying it till it's real.
[01:01:13]  I'm a doc.
[01:01:14]  It's that thing, like, you were when the secret was a big thing.
[01:01:16]  It is.
[01:01:17]  That does work, but just for grifters.
[01:01:19]  Yes.
[01:01:20]  They're not wrong.
[01:01:23]  You just keep saying you're the president.
[01:01:24]  One of these days it'll be true.
[01:01:26]  And it happened.
[01:01:27]  And it happened.
[01:01:28]  Well, that's the thing with Trump, too.
[01:01:29]  I'm fascinated with that.
[01:01:30]  I try to remind people.
[01:01:31]  I'm like, they're like, how can he be like that?
[01:01:33]  I'm like, well, his lifestyle has never been affected.
[01:01:36]  Yeah.
[01:01:36]  Ever.
[01:01:37]  Nothing.
[01:01:38]  He still, no matter if he loses in court today or whatever, he goes to the mansion, Gold Mansion in the Sky.
[01:01:44]  Yeah.
[01:01:44]  It's just and has his male wife that he ordered.
[01:01:48]  It's like Gary Young.
[01:01:49]  None of his, none of that getting convicted of pretending to be a doctor multiple times never was a setback.
[01:01:54]  He was just like, let's go where it's warm and let's just find another state.
[01:01:58]  I'm tired of this.
[01:01:59]  I'm tired of all this gray and rain.
[01:02:01]  Let's go down.
[01:02:02]  Finally, well, let's just go to Utah.
[01:02:03]  They don't give a fuck what you do in Utah.
[01:02:05]  Just keep selling your own.
[01:02:07]  I mean, that's what we live in Hollywood.
[01:02:10]  Yep, yep, yep.
[01:02:11]  I mean, this is the thing is, like, if you're a grifter and you wind up in Hollywood, it's fine because the worst case scenario is you make the boondock saints.
[01:02:21]  Yeah.
[01:02:23]  Or the room.
[01:02:23]  Or the room.
[01:02:24]  Yeah.
[01:02:25]  Yeah, exactly.
[01:02:26]  But like in Silicon Valley, it's you make a fake blood testing company.
[01:02:29]  And in Utah, it's you wind up performing unlicensed surgery.
[01:02:33]  You're exactly.
[01:02:35]  Yes.
[01:02:36]  Oh, that is.
[01:02:36]  So, grifters, just moved to LA.
[01:02:38]  Just come to L.A.
[01:02:39]  The weather's great.
[01:02:41]  And if you don't make it, it's pretty good life anyway.
[01:02:44]  Yeah, the weed's fine.
[01:02:46]  Like, it's cool.
[01:02:47]  Yeah.
[01:02:47]  Yeah.
[01:02:48]  It is pretty cool.
[01:02:49]  Your ability to handle rejection will serve you very well in this town.
[01:02:52]  Oh, it is.
[01:02:53]  It is.
[01:02:54]  That's the number one skill here.
[01:02:56]  If you can take no like it didn't happen.
[01:02:58]  Yeah.
[01:02:58]  Yep.
[01:02:58]  You'll be running this motherfucker.
[01:03:00]  See, now we get into some dark stuff about the stand-up industry.
[01:03:04]  Yeah.
[01:03:04]  Yes.
[01:03:05]  Not just stand-up.
[01:03:06]  Not just stand-up.
[01:03:07]  This whole open.
[01:03:09]  Yeah, the whole civilization, actually.
[01:03:13]  Billy, let's plug those pluggables.
[01:03:16]  Just if you want to follow me on any of the socials, just Google Billy Wynn Davis.
[01:03:21]  I'm on most of them.
[01:03:22]  All that stuff will come up.
[01:03:23]  I am going on tour very soon this week.
[01:03:26]  Next week, I'll be in Colorado.
[01:03:28]  If you go to bwdtour.com, all that stuff comes up.
[01:03:32]  I'll be in Nashville soon.
[01:03:33]  I'm going to Austin, Houston, Oklahoma City, and your neck of the woods, the Kabu Festival in Dallas.
[01:03:41]  Yeah, Dallas.
[01:03:42]  That's where I spent a lot of time as a kid.
[01:03:44]  I'm going in and out.
[01:03:46]  Cool.
[01:03:46]  That spaceship over there in Irving.
[01:03:49]  Yeah, yeah, check out the whatever it was in Irving we talked about.
[01:03:53]  Oh, yeah, you could go pay $49 and get licensed as a doctor of pastoral medicine in Irving.
[01:03:58]  I might do that.
[01:03:59]  You should do that.
[01:04:00]  $50.
[01:04:00]  Dr. Billy Wayne Davis.
[01:04:02]  That would be fantastic.
[01:04:03]  You could perform golf ladder surgery in Ecuador.
[01:04:05]  This is a big year for me.
[01:04:07]  I'm Robert Evans.
[01:04:08]  You can find me on Twitter at iRightOK.
[01:04:10]  If you live in Ecuador and know whatever the fuck Gary Young was doing up there, please do hit us up.
[01:04:15]  You can find this podcast on our website, behindthemasters.com.
[01:04:18]  You can buy shirts at tpublic.com, behind the bastards.
[01:04:21]  They have things on them, jokes, such.
[01:04:24]  Stickers too.
[01:04:26]  Mouse pads.
[01:04:29]  Coke spoons.
[01:04:30]  Coke spoons.
[01:04:31]  All branded, all with my face on them.
[01:04:34]  So that's kind of cool.
[01:04:36]  We're on Twitter and Instagram at BastardsPod.
[01:04:38]  And I have another podcast called It Could Happen Here, which you should watch if you want to be really, really, really listen to.
[01:04:44]  You should listen to.
[01:04:45]  Sophie, it's been two hours.
[01:04:46]  You should listen to the podcast if you want to be sad.
[01:04:49]  This is it.
[01:04:49]  That's the end of the show.
[01:04:50]  Go fucking hug a cat.
[01:04:53]  Bye.
[01:05:00]  When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands.
[01:05:08]  I vowed I will be his last target.
[01:05:10]  He is not going to get away with this.
[01:05:12]  He's going to get what he deserves.
[01:05:14]  We always say that.
[01:05:16]  Trust your girlfriends.
[01:05:19]  Listen to the girlfriends.
[01:05:20]  Trust me, babe.
[01:05:21]  On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[01:05:31]  What's up, everyone?
[01:05:32]  I'm Ago Modern.
[01:05:33]  My next guest, it's Will Farrell.
[01:05:37]  My dad gave me the best advice ever.
[01:05:40]  He goes, just give it a shot.
[01:05:42]  But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit.
[01:05:48]  If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration.
[01:05:51]  It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat just hang in there.
[01:05:58]  Yeah, it would not be.
[01:06:00]  Right, it wouldn't be that.
[01:06:01]  There's a lot of life.
[01:06:03]  Listen to Thanksgiving on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[01:06:10]  On a recent episode of the podcast, Money and Wealth with John O'Brien, I sit down with Tiffany the Budginista Alicia to talk about what it really takes to take control of your money.
[01:06:21]  What would that look like in our families if everyone was able to pass on wealth to the people when they're no longer here?
[01:06:27]  We break down budgeting, financial discipline, and how to build real wealth, starting with the mindset shifts too many of us were never, ever taught.
[01:06:36]  If you've ever felt you didn't get the memo on money, this conversation is for you to hear more.
[01:06:42]  Listen to Money and Wealth with John O'Brien from the Black Effect Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.
[01:06:52]  On the Ceno Show podcast, each episode invites you into a raw, unfiltered conversations about recovery, resilience, and redemption.
[01:06:59]  On a recent episode, I sit down with actor, cultural icon Danny Trail to talk about addiction, transformation, and the power of second chances.
[01:07:06]  The entire season two is now available at the bench, featuring powerful conversations with guests like Tiffany Addish, Johnny Knoxville, and more.
[01:07:12]  I'm an alcohol.
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