Behind the Bastards - Part Two: Jeffrey Epstein: Pimp to the Powerful
Aired: 2019-03-21
Duration: 58:44


=== Terrible Introduction (02:16) ===

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[00:00:29]  Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Earn Your Leisure, and listen now.
[00:00:34]  How much away, Wanda right now?
[00:00:35]  I'm about 130.
[00:00:36]  I'm at 183.
[00:00:37]  We should race.
[00:00:38]  No, I want to leave here with my original hips.
[00:00:41]  On the podcast, The Match Up with Aaliyah, I pair prominent female athletes with unexpected guests.
[00:00:45]  On a recent episode, I sat down with undisputed boxing champ Clarissa Shields and comedian Wanda Sykes to talk about Wanda's new movie, Undercard, The Art of Trash Talk, and What It Really Means to Be Ladylike.
[00:00:55]  Open your free iHeartRadio app, search the matchup with Aaliyah, and listen now.
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[00:01:04]  Readers, Katie's finalists, publicists, we have an incredible new episode this week for you guys.
[00:01:09]  We have our girl Hillary Duff in here, and we can't wait for you to hear this episode.
[00:01:13]  They put on Lizzie McGuire at 2 a.m. video on demand.
[00:01:16]  This guy's playing.
[00:01:16]  2 a.m.
[00:01:17]  2 a.m.
[00:01:18]  Whatever time it is.
[00:01:18]  Lizzie McGuire and I'm Wildey.
[00:01:20]  Wild, wild batch.
[00:01:21]  It was like a first closet moment for me where I was like, I don't feel like she's hot like the rest of them.
[00:01:26]  No, no, no.
[00:01:27]  I was like, she's beautiful, but I'm appreciating her in a different way than these boys are.
[00:01:31]  I'm not like, listen to Lascal Triestas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
[00:01:43]  You know the famous author Roald Dahl.
[00:01:45]  He thought up Willy Wonka and the BFG.
[00:01:47]  But did you know he was a spy?
[00:01:50]  Neither did I. You can hear all about his wildlife story in the podcast, The Secret World of Roald Dahl.
[00:01:56]  All episodes are out now.
[00:01:58]  Was this before he wrote his stories?
[00:02:00]  It must have been.
[00:02:01]  What?
[00:02:02]  Okay, I don't think that's true.
[00:02:03]  I'm telling you, because I was a spy.
[00:02:05]  Binge all 10 episodes of The Secret World of Roald Dahl now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

=== The Epstein Connection (15:45) ===

[00:02:16]  Ah, we're back.
[00:02:18]  I'm Robert Evans.
[00:02:19]  This was another terrible introduction.
[00:02:21]  Sophie is ashamed.
[00:02:22]  Dan looks ashamed.
[00:02:23]  He's not making my eyes over the internet here.
[00:02:25]  Now he is, but only because I brought it up.
[00:02:29]  I'm Robert Evans.
[00:02:30]  This is Behind the Bastards podcast.
[00:02:31]  Bad people.
[00:02:32]  Talk about them.
[00:02:34]  This is part two of our episode on Jeffrey Epstein.
[00:02:37]  Don't listen to this if you haven't listened to part one because it will not make as much sense as it should.
[00:02:42]  Daniel, how are you doing?
[00:02:44]  Literally minutes after we finished the first episode.
[00:02:47]  I'm doing well.
[00:02:47]  I'm learning a thing that I didn't know was true.
[00:02:50]  I thought anytime you did these like two or three part episodes that you would break when I, the listener, would break.
[00:02:55]  No.
[00:02:56]  I didn't know that you and Jamie Loftus talked about Mark Zuckerberg for like nine straight hours.
[00:03:02]  Yeah, it was too much talking about yeah.
[00:03:05]  No, there's never any break.
[00:03:07]  The reason we do it this way is because some amount of deceit to the audience is always necessary.
[00:03:13]  You understand this being a TV.
[00:03:14]  Oh, of course.
[00:03:15]  You have to lie to the people.
[00:03:16]  Oh my God.
[00:03:17]  So this is the lie we've chosen.
[00:03:19]  And it's a beautiful lie.
[00:03:21]  I also wear a hairpiece, but anyway, let's not where you'd expect.
[00:03:26]  But not on my head.
[00:03:30]  It's like I've got a triple latched onto my spine.
[00:03:33]  Yes.
[00:03:36]  That was a good joke.
[00:03:37]  Okay.
[00:03:38]  Let's talk about Jeffrey Epstein some more.
[00:03:41]  Now, yeah.
[00:03:44]  So we're already acquainted with Jeffrey Epstein's illicit child pimping business.
[00:03:49]  So let's take a minute at the start of this episode to talk about his big stupid house.
[00:03:54]  Now, most of the early positive articles you'll read about Jeffrey Epstein spent a lot of time talking about his mansion in New York City, where you are, Dan.
[00:04:02]  Woo!
[00:04:03]  Woo!
[00:04:04]  Now, I should note that he does not just own a mansion in New York City, he owns the mansion in New York City.
[00:04:10]  Epstein's residence is the largest private home in Manhattan.
[00:04:14]  It has a 15-foot-high oak door, nine floors, and takes up an entire city block.
[00:04:20]  71st Street between 5th and Madison is all Epstein's home.
[00:04:24]  If you're curious, here's how Vicki Ward, a Vanity Fair, described being inside of Epstein's Manor.
[00:04:30]  Quote, Amid the flurry of men servants, attired in sober black suits and pristine white gloves, you feel you have stumbled into someone's private Xanadu.
[00:04:39]  This is no mere rich person's home, but a high-walled, eclectic, imperious fantasy that seems to have no boundaries.
[00:04:45]  The entrance hall is decorated not with paintings, but with row upon row of individually framed eyeballs.
[00:04:50]  These, the owner tells people with relish, were imported from England, where they were made for injured soldiers.
[00:04:56]  Next comes a marble foyer, which does have a painting in the manner of Jean Dubuffet.
[00:05:01]  I don't know who the hell that is.
[00:05:03]  But the host coitly refuses to tell visitors who painted it.
[00:05:06]  In any case, guests are like pygmies next to the nearly twice life-size sculpture of a naked African warrior.
[00:05:12]  He tells people he bought the house because he knew he could never live anywhere bigger.
[00:05:16]  He thinks 51,000 square feet is an appropriately large space for someone like himself, who deals mostly in large concepts, especially large sums of money.
[00:05:25]  So that's Jeff Epstein's house in Manhattan.
[00:05:29]  Evans, I'm going to ask you to do something that you might not like to do, but you're the only person I know that I can ask to do this.
[00:05:36]  If I ever make a billion dollars, just fucking kill me.
[00:05:38]  Don't let me turn into one of these people.
[00:05:40]  I'm worried that it's going to happen.
[00:05:43]  So if I ever become like crazy rich, don't assume that I'm going to be good.
[00:05:47]  Assume that I'm going to catch whatever disease these mutants have and kill me in an environmentally conscious way.
[00:05:54]  Yeah, yeah, that will that and we'll we'll have this podcast as evidence on the trial when I am inevitably brought to trial for murder.
[00:06:02]  Oh, heavens, you fool to assume that in the future there will still be trials and laws.
[00:06:08]  No, I'll just wind up like bicycle jousting with your next of kin around the water port.
[00:06:13]  Yeah.
[00:06:15]  Now, Jeffrey Epstein's big stupid mansion has a gigantic leather-lined room dedicated entirely to drinking tea.
[00:06:22]  If you want to make somebody start embracing the tenets of socialism, you might point out that there are 23,000 homeless children in New York City and the child pimp to the stars has a dedicated room just for tea.
[00:06:33]  Just let that rattle around in your head a little bit when you think about where the top marginal income tax rate should be.
[00:06:44]  We can't just say like, look, this is what they do when we give them too much money.
[00:06:48]  Yeah.
[00:06:48]  It's very embarrassing.
[00:06:50]  It's very barring.
[00:06:51]  Right.
[00:06:52]  And that I got to give credit to Vicki, the author of that Vanity Fair article, because that was published at a time before many dark details were known about Epstein, and she was like the first person to really dig into him in a critical way.
[00:07:06]  She definitely hinted at some very bad stuff and did a better job of anyone else of shining a spotlight on the darker parts of his career.
[00:07:13]  And her article is kind of a masterclass in journalistic shade-throwing.
[00:07:16]  You can tell that she really dislikes this guy as she describes his giant house and all of his fancy things.
[00:07:23]  While she includes, it keeps a pretty fair neutral tone throughout.
[00:07:26]  She includes ample quotes from her subject that present a more damning indictment of his person than any polemic ever could.
[00:07:32]  At one point, he shows her his giant living room rug, which he describes as, quote, the largest Persian rug you will ever see in a private home.
[00:07:40]  So big it must have come from a mosque.
[00:07:42]  Crags, my carpet's so big we stole it from someone else's religious building.
[00:07:48]  Jesus, guys.
[00:07:49]  It goes on.
[00:07:50]  I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but like you could ask a simple question, or I guess you didn't even ask a question about the rug.
[00:07:56]  No, he just like, I bet I can take this from normal to awful in seconds.
[00:08:03]  It's not gonna, I'm not even gonna break a sweat.
[00:08:05]  How much cultural appropriation can I?
[00:08:07]  It's made of bones.
[00:08:11]  Now, in the article, Vicki notes that most of Epstein's decor has been picked out by a famous French decorator, a guy who worked for prime ministers in royalty around the world.
[00:08:19]  And then she notes that among all this finery, quote, there is one particularly startling oddity, a stuffed black poodle standing atop the grand piano.
[00:08:28]  No decorator would ever tell you to do that, Epstein brags to visitors.
[00:08:32]  But I want people to think of what it means to stuff a dog.
[00:08:36]  I don't know what that means.
[00:08:38]  I don't know what that means.
[00:08:39]  Now, Vicki suggests.
[00:08:41]  Let me hear one more time.
[00:08:42]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:08:43]  There is one particularly startling oddity, a stuffed black poodle standing atop the grand piano.
[00:08:48]  No decorator would ever tell you to do that, Epstein brags to visitors, but I want people to think what it means to stuff a dog.
[00:08:57]  I want people to think what it means to stuff a dog.
[00:08:59]  What does it mean to stuff a dog?
[00:09:01]  Let's together, let's honor his wishes.
[00:09:06]  Think about that.
[00:09:06]  Think what it means to stuff a dog.
[00:09:09]  It means you had a dog.
[00:09:12]  Yep.
[00:09:12]  It means the dog is dead.
[00:09:15]  It means you had stuffing around or called a guy.
[00:09:19]  It means you remove the stuff that was inside the dog and replace it with the stuffing.
[00:09:25]  And then you sewed up the dog so people didn't see it anymore that it was sewed up.
[00:09:31]  Yep.
[00:09:32]  And then you put it on a piano because your parents made you take the analysis.
[00:09:37]  Okay.
[00:09:38]  I've thought about what it means to stuff a dog and I'm no closer to anything.
[00:09:42]  No, I feel like I did the thing that he wants people to do.
[00:09:45]  Like, it doesn't make me feel like I didn't come away with that thinking, like, oh man, he's powerful.
[00:09:51]  Yeah.
[00:09:51]  Or he's smart.
[00:09:52]  What wisdom?
[00:09:53]  Handsome.
[00:09:54]  I just thought, like, okay, I did.
[00:09:55]  It's like, when I think about what it means to stuff a dog, I think of a very workman-like process.
[00:10:01]  What it means.
[00:10:02]  You got to remove some guts.
[00:10:03]  You got to put some stuffing.
[00:10:04]  Yeah.
[00:10:05]  Gloves are probably involved.
[00:10:07]  You understand like embalming and sewing and proper disposal of dog guts.
[00:10:15]  A lot of salt, I'm going to guess.
[00:10:17]  I've thought about it, Jeff.
[00:10:19]  It sucks.
[00:10:20]  It sucks.
[00:10:22]  For what it's worth, Vicki Ward says that she thinks it's Epstein's way of saying he always gets the last word.
[00:10:27]  I don't know why she thinks that, but she spent a lot of time with him, so I'm going to guess she's privy to some details we're not.
[00:10:34]  I really don't understand it.
[00:10:37]  No, I don't understand.
[00:10:38]  Like the way he says makes people think what it means to stuff a dog.
[00:10:42]  It's, I feel like I understand that he's trying to conjure up some kind of mic drop moment.
[00:10:48]  As if, like, if you walked into my apartment and saw that I had a woolly mammoth tusk mounted on a wall somewhere, that's a flex.
[00:11:00]  I understand that being a flex because that means I either found a woolly mammoth, killed it, and put its tusk on my wall, broke into a museum, stole a tusk, or had enough money to buy a tusk.
[00:11:12]  Those are three flexes that I understand as like a power move to show someone.
[00:11:17]  A stuffed dog on a piano is not one of those flexes.
[00:11:20]  It's not.
[00:11:20]  I don't know what that means.
[00:11:23]  I don't either.
[00:11:25]  Yeah, and I maybe it's just a way to make people see the affectation of a flex.
[00:11:29]  Yeah.
[00:11:30]  Yeah, it just, it just keeps, it confuses people, and that was Jeffrey's goal.
[00:11:34]  Yeah, I, I, I, okay.
[00:11:36]  Yeah.
[00:11:38]  Mission accomplished, you Coney Island sex monster.
[00:11:42]  Coney.
[00:11:43]  That's another good title for the episode: Coney Island Sex Monster.
[00:11:46]  Okay.
[00:11:47]  Now, back in 2015, after Epstein's rampant pedophilic pimping was common knowledge and after he'd been out of prison for several years, Vicki Ward published another article about the man, this one for the Daily Beast.
[00:11:59]  Its title was, I tried to warn you about sleazy billionaire Jeffrey Epstein in 2003.
[00:12:06]  Now, Ward was more explicit and less guarded in this article, stating outright that Epstein's claims of having made his fortune by managing the wealth of multiple billionaires was, quote, a story that no one I spoke to believed.
[00:12:17]  Now, back in 2003, she'd spoken to Hoffenberg, his former partner in that Ponzi scheme.
[00:12:22]  Hoffenberg had made some allegations about Epstein, but she hadn't really been able to go off on those alone because, you know, he was a felon in prison for fraud, and Jeffrey Epstein was a rich billionaire.
[00:12:31]  You can't just, like, accuse billionaires of committing fraud off of the word of a guy who's in prison for fraud.
[00:12:38]  You got to have more info than that.
[00:12:42]  Okay, just let me know when we reach the era where I can accuse billionaires of fraud from an uninformed gut instinct level.
[00:12:50]  That is the way I can do it now.
[00:12:54]  When the economy collapses.
[00:12:58]  And that's not a good era either.
[00:13:01]  Okay.
[00:13:02]  So, she had done some digging this time and found proof that Epstein had been chased out of Bear Stearns for committing a violation, which is why we knew that in the first place.
[00:13:11]  She had brought this to Epstein and noted that he seemed almost concerned about the allegations of financial irregularities and crimes.
[00:13:18]  This had baffled her.
[00:13:19]  She'd been surprised that he'd brushed off these allegations.
[00:13:23]  And in fact, Epstein had mainly brushed them off so that he could repeatedly ask her, what do you have on the girls?
[00:13:30]  Now, according to Ward, quote, what I had on the girls were some remarkably brave first-person accounts, three on-the-record stories from a family, a mother and her daughters who came from Phoenix.
[00:13:41]  The oldest daughter, an artist whose character was vouchsafed to me by several sources, including the artist Eric Fischel, had told me, weeping as she sat in my living room, of how Epstein had attempted to seduce both her and separately, her younger sister, then only 16.
[00:13:55]  He'd gotten to them because of his money.
[00:13:56]  He'd promised the older sister patronage of her artwork.
[00:14:00]  He'd promised the younger funding for a trip abroad that would give her work experience she needed on her resume for a place at an Ivy League university, which she desperately wanted.
[00:14:09]  So the girl's mom had figured that they'd be safe at Epstein's home.
[00:14:13]  After all, he'd flown around with Bill Clinton, funded tens of millions of dollars in critical scientific research.
[00:14:19]  Most of his friends were physicists.
[00:14:21]  Plus, she knew Gilsain Maxwell would be there the whole time.
[00:14:24]  The mother later told Ward, quote, at the time I wanted to go after him.
[00:14:29]  I mean, physically, mentally, you know, in every way, shape, and form.
[00:14:32]  And the advice I was given was, you know, he is so wealthy, he can fight you.
[00:14:35]  He can make you look ridiculous.
[00:14:37]  He can make your daughters look ridiculous.
[00:14:39]  Plus, he can hurt them.
[00:14:40]  And that was the thing that frightened me, was that he would know where they lived and could possibly just send somebody when they walk the dog at night or something around the corner, and we'd never hear from them again.
[00:14:49]  So.
[00:14:50]  Yeah.
[00:14:50]  There's a lot there, but most of his friends are physicists is kind of a new institutional defense of a person.
[00:15:00]  Well, everyone's aware of it.
[00:15:01]  Like, he seems nice.
[00:15:02]  Most of his friends are physicists.
[00:15:03]  Like, I'm not saying that, like, it's what it is.
[00:15:05]  I assumed all physicists are bad.
[00:15:07]  I definitely didn't assume they were all good, though.
[00:15:09]  I mean, it just seems like an innocuous thing.
[00:15:12]  Like, it's one thing if it's like, oh, my teenage daughter is going to be hanging out with fucking Jeremy Pippin, which, you know, is immediately shady.
[00:15:21]  It's another thing to be like, oh, well, this guy is like a billionaire who funds scientific research and pals around with Stephen Hawking and the like.
[00:15:29]  Like, that seems like he's probably an upright citizen.
[00:15:32]  You know?
[00:15:32]  Okay.
[00:15:33]  Yeah.
[00:15:34]  He doesn't seem shady.
[00:15:35]  Like, I can see how it's, like, it's one thing, you know, you can throw some judgment on the parents who let their kids hang out with R. Kelly when they were 15.
[00:15:43]  And it's like, there's been allegations about R. Kelly for a long time.
[00:15:47]  You know, in 2002, nobody was saying anything about Epstein, but that he'd given $20 million in Harvard for math research.
[00:15:54]  Like, it doesn't sound like stereotypical sexual abuser.
[00:15:59]  Although now it does, because Jeffrey Epstein is a pimp to the stars.
[00:16:04]  Okay, so Ward brought the allegations that these young women had made to Epstein, and he denied them to her face, saying, Just the mention of a 16-year-old girl carries the wrong impression.
[00:16:16]  I don't see what it adds to the piece, and that makes me unhappy.
[00:16:20]  Now, after she brought this up to Epstein, he repeatedly called her and Graydon Carter, the editor at Vanity Fair.
[00:16:27]  Epstein took extreme measures to discredit the witnesses, reportedly mailing forged letters from them to Vanity Fair.
[00:16:33]  At one point, Epstein made it, somehow made it past Building Security and into Vanity Fair's offices.
[00:16:38]  It's unclear exactly what threats he made or didn't make, but Graydon Carter made the call to pull the women's allegations from the article.
[00:16:45]  It came down to my source's words against Epstein's, and at the time, Graydon believed Epstein.
[00:16:50]  In my notebook, I have him saying, I believe him.
[00:16:53]  I'm Canadian.
[00:16:54]  I don't know what the hell Canada has to do with it.
[00:16:58]  Is that like a throwing Canada under the bus moment of like, I believed him because we are charged with crimes?
[00:17:08]  Oh, I believed him because I'm not a sweetie.
[00:17:12]  I'm a sweet guy.
[00:17:14]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:17:15]  That Vanity Fair article includes no allegations of sex crimes.
[00:17:18]  She had two witnesses going on record saying Epstein tried to seduce them when they were underage, but her editor talked to Epstein about the allegations against him and made the decision to pull those allegations because he trusted Epstein.
[00:17:31]  Okay.
[00:17:32]  Not agree.
[00:17:32]  He's saying it's because he's Canadian.
[00:17:34]  He's Canadian.
[00:17:34]  Canadians are trustworthy.
[00:17:36]  Classic not believing child sex abuse victims.
[00:17:40]  I mean, it just, it's an easier to assemble puzzle than stuffed poodle on the end.
[00:17:46]  That it is.
[00:17:47]  That it is.
[00:17:47]  Very fair.
[00:17:48]  Now, Ward claims that during this time when she was writing the article, she became terrified of Jeffrey Epstein and what he might do to her.
[00:17:56]  She says she was frightened enough that it probably had some impact on the children that she was pregnant with at the time.

=== Something Is Broken (04:37) ===

[00:18:02]  Both of her babies were born premature.
[00:18:05]  Epstein, yeah, Epstein had asked her where her babies were going to be born, and she knew that he had deep connections in the medical community.
[00:18:12]  So she paid for security guards to watch her babies where they were in the NICU.
[00:18:17]  Her 2015 article ends with this line: quote, when they'd been released home some months later, I went out to my first party.
[00:18:25]  There was Jeffrey Epstein sucking a lollipop.
[00:18:27]  Vicki, he said, you look so pretty.
[00:18:32]  Epstein.
[00:18:34]  Yeah, it's.
[00:18:36]  We have a couple of different types of bastards.
[00:18:38]  I mean, I'm putting the cuffs on when you say he saw him at a party sucking a lollipop.
[00:18:43]  I'm like, no, this guy's done some shit.
[00:18:45]  This guy's a pedophile.
[00:18:46]  I just woke up from a 30-year coma, walked into a party, and I saw this 42-year-old billionaire sucking a lollipop.
[00:18:52]  Put him in chains, get him out of here.
[00:18:54]  Put him in prison.
[00:18:54]  We'll try him later.
[00:18:57]  Something's being broken here.
[00:19:00]  We do, like, there's a couple of different kinds of bastards we get.
[00:19:02]  There's the guy like L. Ron Hubbard, who, like, in an objective way, yeah, probably did more evil in the world than Jeffrey Epstein has if you look at all of the consequences of his actions.
[00:19:13]  But you can't help but kind of like the guy when you read about him enough because his evil is just so like kooky and weird and eccentric.
[00:19:20]  And he's like getting people to look for gold on boats in the ocean and stuff.
[00:19:24]  That's fun.
[00:19:25]  Epstein, like, there's no fun in him.
[00:19:28]  He's just, yeah, it's like Cosby.
[00:19:30]  It's just horrible.
[00:19:31]  Right.
[00:19:32]  It's just a bad guy with no conscience.
[00:19:35]  Yeah.
[00:19:35]  And is there, I mean, not to make you play armchair psychiatrist, psychologist, or anything like that, but that's basically my job.
[00:19:44]  Nothing about what you said about his upbringing made it seem like the seeds of evil were planted there.
[00:19:53]  Like you run up no trauma.
[00:19:54]  You say, like, Coney Island was rough, but he also had parents that were spending a lot of money to give him a good education.
[00:20:02]  So I'm not that I'm trying to find good in him.
[00:20:05]  I'm trying to find an inception point because the alternative to it was trauma that caused this moral lapse, not moral lapse, moral implosion for this person.
[00:20:19]  The alternative to that is he was born soulless and evil, which is a thing that I don't really believe in.
[00:20:27]  I don't think he thinks, like, I don't think he's a mustache-twirling villain.
[00:20:31]  I don't think he views these girls.
[00:20:33]  These girls are obviously victims.
[00:20:34]  I want to be clear about that.
[00:20:35]  I don't think he views them that way.
[00:20:37]  I think he probably felt bad when he penetrated that teenager with his penis and she said no, which is why he gave her $1,000.
[00:20:46]  Now, obviously, that doesn't come close to making it right.
[00:20:50]  But I think he viewed most of these as like, well, these girls are getting money out of this and they're getting connections.
[00:20:56]  And I'm not forcing myself on them.
[00:20:58]  They're coming into my room and providing this service.
[00:21:03]  It's fine.
[00:21:04]  I'm so smart and evolved in our society's attitudes on when young girls should have sex with 58-year-old men are behind the times.
[00:21:12]  I mean, I guess that's Epstein's justification that there's no reason that I shouldn't have sex with a 12-year-old as long as I'm not violently forcing it on her.
[00:21:21]  This is a question that I don't know if you have the answer to or if he's going to answer what it will do to me.
[00:21:26]  But does he have children?
[00:21:28]  Epstein?
[00:21:28]  Did he ever end up having children?
[00:21:30]  Not even like, like, like...
[00:21:32]  I don't think so.
[00:21:33]  He probably had children.
[00:21:35]  Oh.
[00:21:35]  And covered it up, but like children that he claims is his own and had any kind of fart in raising.
[00:21:42]  I didn't run into any story of that.
[00:21:44]  I don't think he's been married.
[00:21:45]  He was kind of famous in the artist.
[00:21:47]  Ladies.
[00:21:49]  Ladies.
[00:21:50]  Like, there was a lot of speculation that Gilsaine Maxwell, that British socialite, was like his lover and stuff.
[00:21:57]  And it turned out she was just, you know, helping him run his pimping empire, pimpire.
[00:22:01]  Sure.
[00:22:02]  Yeah.
[00:22:04]  So I think he was just like, he had this image of being kind of this like rich bachelor, like Bruce Wayne type character.
[00:22:12]  Yeah, that's what everyone thinks of.
[00:22:14]  But we have Eds.
[00:22:18]  That was good.
[00:22:19]  Do you want to try doing a products, Dan?
[00:22:22]  Do I want to try doing a products?
[00:22:24]  Yeah, you know my catchphrase.
[00:22:26]  All right, give me one.
[00:22:27]  Yeah.
[00:22:28]  Okay.
[00:22:28]  Products.
[00:22:30]  That's it.
[00:22:31]  Sophie's giving me a thumbs down, but I think you were great.
[00:22:34]  You need to know that I'm shouting products alone in my apartment.

=== Shouting Products Alone (04:41) ===

[00:22:40]  Dan, I do that every single night of my life.
[00:22:45]  Products.
[00:22:50]  I went and sat on the little ottoman in front of him.
[00:22:53]  Hi, Dad.
[00:22:54]  And just when I said that, my mom comes out of the kitchen.
[00:23:00]  She says, I have some cookies and milk.
[00:23:02]  This is badass convict.
[00:23:04]  Right.
[00:23:05]  Just finished five years.
[00:23:07]  I'm going to have cookies and milk.
[00:23:08]  Yeah.
[00:23:11]  On the Steeno Show podcast, each episode invites you into a raw, unfiltered conversations about recovery, resilience, and redemption.
[00:23:19]  On a recent episode, I sit down with actor, cultural icon Danny Trail to talk about addiction, transformation, and the power of second chances.
[00:23:27]  The entire season two is now available to bench, featuring powerful conversations with guests like Tiffany Addish, Johnny Knoxville, and more.
[00:23:36]  I'm an alcoholic.
[00:23:40]  I'm going to die.
[00:23:42]  Open your free iHeart radio app, search the CDO show, and listen now.
[00:23:50]  I feel like it was a little bit unbelievable until I really start making money.
[00:23:55]  It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast Eating Wall Broke is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future.
[00:24:03]  This month, hear from top streamer Zoe Spencer and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum Pierre as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up.
[00:24:12]  If I'm outside with my parents and they see all these people come up to me for pitches, it's like, what?
[00:24:17]  Today now, obviously, it's like 100%.
[00:24:20]  They believe everything, but at first, it was just like, you got to go get a real job.
[00:24:25]  There's an economic component to communities thriving.
[00:24:28]  If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail.
[00:24:32]  And what I mean by fail is they don't have money to pay for food.
[00:24:35]  They cannot feed their kids.
[00:24:36]  They do not have homes.
[00:24:37]  Communities don't work unless there's money flowing through them.
[00:24:40]  Listen to Eating Wall Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
[00:24:49]  When you listen to podcasts about AI and tech and the future of humanity, the hosts always act like they know what they're talking about and they are experts at everything.
[00:24:58]  Here at the Nick Dick and Pole show, we're not afraid to make mistakes.
[00:25:02]  What Koogler did that I think was so unique, he's the writer director.
[00:25:07]  Who do you think he is?
[00:25:08]  I don't know.
[00:25:10]  You meet the like the president?
[00:25:12]  You think it goes the president?
[00:25:13]  You think Canada has a president?
[00:25:14]  You think China has a president?
[00:25:15]  Lazois proves that.
[00:25:19]  God, I love that thing.
[00:25:20]  I use it all the time.
[00:25:21]  I wrap it in a blanket and sing to it.
[00:25:25]  It's like the old Polish saying, not my monkeys, not my circus.
[00:25:29]  Yep.
[00:25:29]  It's a good one.
[00:25:30]  I like that saying.
[00:25:31]  It is an actual Polish saying.
[00:25:33]  It is an actual Polish saying.
[00:25:34]  A better version of Play Stupid Games, Win Stupid Prizes.
[00:25:37]  Yes.
[00:25:38]  Which, by the way, wasn't Taylor Swift who said that for the first time.
[00:25:40]  I actually, I thought it was.
[00:25:42]  I got that wrong.
[00:25:43]  Listen to the Nick Dick and Pole Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:25:50]  Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia, and I'm kicking off a brand new season of my podcast, Math and Magic: Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing.
[00:25:58]  Math and Magic takes you behind the scenes of the biggest businesses and industries while sharing insights from the smartest minds in marketing.
[00:26:05]  I'm talking to leaders from the entertainment industry to finance and everywhere in between.
[00:26:09]  This season on Math and Magic, I'm talking to CEO of Liquid Death, Mike Cesario, financier and public health advocate Mike Milken, take-to interactive CEO Strauss Zelnick.
[00:26:20]  If you're unable to take meaningful creative risk and therefore run the risk of making horrible creative mistakes, then you can't play in this business.
[00:26:28]  Sesame Street CEO Sherry Weston and our own chief business officer, Lisa Coffey.
[00:26:34]  Making consumers see the value of the human voice and to have that guaranteed human promise behind it really makes it rise to the top.
[00:26:43]  Listen to Math and Magic, stories from the frontiers of marketing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.
[00:26:53]  We're back.
[00:26:55]  Ah, those services.
[00:26:56]  Also good.
[00:26:57]  You know, we don't think enough about the services, but without services, products are just half produced.
[00:27:04]  Yeah, I mean, like, anyone could buy a belt or a nice Casper Magic.
[00:27:11]  You're really hitting on the belt.
[00:27:12]  Also, the services of that, like, therapy that you talk to on your phone or whatever.
[00:27:18]  We have not gotten money on that.
[00:27:19]  That's not good.
[00:27:20]  You haven't?

=== Damming Court Reports (13:02) ===

[00:27:21]  No, they don't.
[00:27:21]  We don't advertise on our show.
[00:27:23]  I don't know.
[00:27:24]  We did have Air Emirates advertising our show once, and people got very angry for me because I'd just gotten finished talking about the death squads that Eric Prince operates for the Emirates.
[00:27:36]  We don't like we don't, it's just randomly slotted ads a lot of the time if I don't read them.
[00:27:42]  It's tough because as we're recording this, I have insider information that all of your ads are Jeffrey Epstein speaking tours.
[00:27:49]  It's just the only guy who bought any ad time on this episode.
[00:27:53]  He's given me a lot of money.
[00:27:56]  And he actually demanded this episode be a weird guy.
[00:27:59]  He gave me a step.
[00:28:00]  Tell the story, Robert.
[00:28:03]  I don't know what I'm supposed to do with the poodle, but I've got it.
[00:28:06]  But you thought about it.
[00:28:07]  I think about it every day.
[00:28:11]  Okay.
[00:28:12]  So, roughly two years after Vicki Ward wrote her first article in Vanity Fair and, you know, had her premature babies, investigators in Palm Beach started talking to young women they believed might have been abused by Jeffrey Epstein.
[00:28:24]  This was 2005.
[00:28:26]  They started pulling his trash and they found scraps of paper with phone numbers and the names of several young girls on them.
[00:28:31]  Next, they talked to Epstein's butler and eventually gathered enough evidence to charge him and two of his assistants with unlawful sex acts with a minor.
[00:28:39]  This led to a larger FBI investigation, which identified some 40 suspected victims.
[00:28:44]  And 40 is just sort of where they stopped.
[00:28:47]  It was clear from the details of the case that many, more girls have been victimized by Jeffrey Epstein over the years and across the country.
[00:28:55]  Probably hundreds of them, maybe more than hundreds of them.
[00:28:58]  The two cops most responsible for bringing Epstein down were Palm Beach Police Chief Michael Ryder and Detective Joseph Ricari.
[00:29:05]  They conducted their investigation in the face of overwhelming resistance, both from state-level elected officials, fellow law enforcement officers, and Jeffrey Epstein's formidable legal machine.
[00:29:15]  And I do want to like, I'm not normally, you know me, Dan, I'm not normally one for the law enforcement side of things, but these two guys are legitimate heroes in my book.
[00:29:23]  It was one of those things where like they saw something was fucked up and realized that it was going to be a nightmare for them to go after this guy.
[00:29:30]  And they did it anyway, because he was abusing dozens of young girls.
[00:29:35]  And that's not cool.
[00:29:37]  No.
[00:29:39]  Yeah.
[00:29:39]  I agree.
[00:29:40]  Yeah.
[00:29:41]  According to the Miami Herald, quote, police reports show that Epstein's private investigators attempted to conduct interviews while posing as cops, that they picked through writers' trash in search of dirt to discredit him, and that the private investigators were accused of following the girls and their families.
[00:29:54]  In one case, the father of one girl claimed he had been run off the road by a private investigator.
[00:29:59]  Police and court reports show.
[00:30:02]  Now, Epstein hired a legal dream team in order to defend him from these allegations of sexual trafficking.
[00:30:09]  This dream team included Alan Dershowitz, noted celebrity lawyer of Mike Tyson, Patty Hearst, and O.J. Simpson.
[00:30:15]  It also included Kenneth Starr, a man whose investigation of a minor land deal had spiraled into an investigation into President Clinton's relationship with an intern.
[00:30:24]  Now that he defended morality in a battle against the Clinton machine, Starr went to work defending one of Bill Clinton's good friends from charges of serial child molestation.
[00:30:33]  Consistency is important.
[00:30:35]  Now, as we all know, in any case where a bunch of young teenage girls are accusing a man of means of rampant sexual assault and trafficking, step one of any competent legal defense is going to be to dig into those girls' lives and destroy them in front of a judge.
[00:30:48]  Epstein's team of super good human beings got right to work doing this.
[00:30:52]  First, Alan Dershowitz met with Detective Ricari and shared with him the results of an investigation Epstein had paid for, which revealed one of the girls to be, quote, an accomplished drama student.
[00:31:04]  In other words, Dershowitz is saying she's a liar.
[00:31:06]  According to a letter that Dershowitz wrote the detective, quote, our investigation had discovered at least one of her websites, and I'm enclosing some examples.
[00:31:14]  The site goes on to detail, including photos, her apparent fascination with marijuana.
[00:31:20]  Oh.
[00:31:22]  Oh, yeah.
[00:31:23]  In interviews with the Miami Herald, Ricari further recalled, quote, his attorneys showed us a MySpace page where one of the girls was holding a beer in her hand and they said, oh, look, she is underage drinking.
[00:31:33]  Well, tell me what teenager doesn't.
[00:31:34]  Does that mean she isn't a victim because she drank a beer?
[00:31:37]  Basically, what you're telling me is that the only victim of a sexual battery could be a nun.
[00:31:42]  I like Detective Ricari.
[00:31:43]  Another Epstein victim reported similar behavior from his lawyers, telling the Miami Herald, quote, his lawyers were just in my life inside and out.
[00:31:51]  They asked if I had a baby, if I had an abortion.
[00:31:53]  Did you sleep with 30 different guys?
[00:31:55]  Do you think that played a part?
[00:31:56]  I said, you're going to come at me like that when you represent a guy who is doing this to hundreds of girls?
[00:32:01]  How do you sleep at night?
[00:32:03]  And I hate to say this, young woman, but all of Epstein's lawyers sleep at night on a pile of money, hundreds of feet tall.
[00:32:11]  I don't think, I think it's pretty safe to say that anyone who's ever been asked the question, how do you sleep at night?
[00:32:20]  I think it's pretty fair to say they sleep just fine.
[00:32:22]  Yeah, if you're asking a person that question, if there's not like guilt and shame on their face.
[00:32:28]  Yeah, if they did the thing, then they already don't know why they should be ashamed of it.
[00:32:33]  I mean, I have trouble sleeping at night because these people exist.
[00:32:37]  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:32:38]  The rest of us have trouble sleeping at night, not the sociopaths who exist in the orbit of helping these people not get charged for their crimes.
[00:32:47]  You got rich by ruining people's lives.
[00:32:49]  How did you sleep at night?
[00:32:50]  Easily, comfortably.
[00:32:51]  Really, no problem.
[00:32:53]  You guys don't know how good bed technology has gotten if you're...
[00:32:56]  Oh my God.
[00:32:57]  You got your beds out of a box.
[00:32:59]  My bed was forged in the Himalayan mountains.
[00:33:02]  Yeah, I had a bed guy come and measure me and then make a bed around my body.
[00:33:07]  It's perfect.
[00:33:08]  You've never had a better sleep.
[00:33:09]  It's the only one of its kind.
[00:33:10]  They actually burnt down the forest that made the fibers for the beds so that no one else can ever have a similar bed.
[00:33:17]  It cost a little bit extra, but it's worth it.
[00:33:21]  So, Palm Beach attorney Barry Kersher and state prosecutor Lana Belo-Labik seem to have found themselves in a similar situation to Vanity Fair's editor.
[00:33:30]  As the case progressed, Epstein's attorneys made the kind of quiet, technically legal threats that lawyers know how to make.
[00:33:36]  And so the prosecutor and state attorney stopped picking up the phone for Detective Ricari and Police Chief Ryder.
[00:33:41]  They delayed approving subpoenas for the case.
[00:33:43]  Ryder later recalled, quote, early on it became clear that things had changed.
[00:33:47]  From Kerscher saying, we'll put this guy away for life, to, these are all the reasons why we aren't going to prosecute this.
[00:33:54]  There was evidence of shady donations made by Epstein to the police department after the beginning of the investigation.
[00:33:59]  Ryder returned at least one of these donations, but it's entirely possible that more money changed hands.
[00:34:03]  Some of Epstein's victims later recalled him bragging that he owned the Palm Beach Police Department.
[00:34:08]  Both the police chief...
[00:34:10]  Yeah, it's called a humble bra.
[00:34:12]  Not even a humble brag.
[00:34:13]  Now, both the police chief and the detective became convinced their trash was being sorted through and that they were being followed through about the day by private eyes.
[00:34:20]  When they finally got to raid Epstein's mansion on October 20th, 2005, it looked as if he'd been tipped off.
[00:34:26]  Most of his hard drives, surveillance cameras, and videos had been removed hastily.
[00:34:31]  Still, they found a lot of damning material.
[00:34:33]  According to the Miami Herald, quote, they obtained dozens of message pads from his home that read like a who's who of famous people, including magician David Copperfield and Donald Trump, an indication of Epstein's vast circle of influential friends.
[00:34:47]  There were also messages from girls, and their phone numbers matched those of many of the girls Ricari had interviewed, Ricari said.
[00:34:52]  They read, Courtney called, she can come at four, or Tanya can't come at 7 p.m. tomorrow because she has soccer practice.
[00:35:01]  Gross, on the same pieces of paper with Donald Trump's phone number.
[00:35:06]  Yeah, I mean, like, even regardless of the year, it feels like my two friends, Donald Trump and David Copperfield, was never a flex.
[00:35:21]  Yeah.
[00:35:22]  They also found naked photographs of underage girls in Epstein's closet, which means the fact that they still found all this stuff after he'd been tipped off means that before Epstein had his house cleaned, there was so much child pornography and incriminating information that a billionaire's team of cleaners couldn't remove it all.
[00:35:41]  Yeah.
[00:35:42]  And check the closet, Rosie.
[00:35:44]  In his closet, I mean, I assume that there were a lot more naked photographs and they just missed some because he had so many.
[00:35:50]  I guess.
[00:35:52]  That's got to be what that means.
[00:35:53]  Kenny, like, look, you gave us a month.
[00:35:56]  Your house is so fucking huge.
[00:35:57]  Yeah.
[00:35:59]  We got rid of so much illegal stuff from the main wing of it, but I don't know.
[00:36:03]  There's some nooks and crannies we just couldn't get to.
[00:36:05]  There's so many.
[00:36:06]  It's a huge house, Jeff.
[00:36:07]  You have a lot of pictures of children.
[00:36:13]  So the case dragged on through 2006 and into 2007.
[00:36:18]  By October, the prosecution was in the hands of Alexander Acosta, the top federal prosecutor in Miami.
[00:36:24]  He met with one of Epstein's lawyers, Jay Lefkowitz, with whom Acosta had worked in the past.
[00:36:29]  The two former coworkers hammered out a deal for the final resolution of Epstein's case.
[00:36:35]  This non-prosecution agreement shut down the ongoing FBI probe into Epstein's crimes.
[00:36:40]  It also guaranteed that the full nature of Epstein's crimes would be concealed from his victims.
[00:36:45]  In other words, Acosta agreed to give Jeffrey Epstein a plea agreement that no one actually got to see or read, including his victims.
[00:36:54]  Epstein...
[00:36:55]  How long...
[00:36:56]  Yeah.
[00:36:57]  Is that one of the types of legal things that one day will get revealed to the world?
[00:37:02]  No.
[00:37:03]  It's a forever.
[00:37:08]  Listeners at home, you can't tell this because this is, again, an audio medium, but I am sad visibly.
[00:37:14]  Yeah, very visibly sad.
[00:37:16]  Sad with a dog in your lap, which is a hard, hard to be.
[00:37:20]  Yeah.
[00:37:20]  Yeah.
[00:37:21]  Like, just crestfallen while getting my chin licked by my adorable puppy dog.
[00:37:26]  Yeah.
[00:37:27]  Still, he is sad too.
[00:37:29]  Yeah.
[00:37:29]  He doesn't know why.
[00:37:30]  He's a sad little guy.
[00:37:31]  But he's sad.
[00:37:33]  Now, Epstein did have to plead guilty to two prostitution charges in state court, but his four named accomplices received immunity from their federal charges.
[00:37:43]  The deal also gave immunity to, quote, any potential co-conspirators, meaning anyone else involved in Epstein's crimes who the government hadn't found out about yet was retroactively declared off the hook.
[00:37:56]  That's the kind of agreement Jeffrey Epstein got thanks to Alexander Acosta.
[00:38:01]  How?
[00:38:05]  What do you bet?
[00:38:06]  Like, that's such a sweet deal.
[00:38:07]  It's a great deal.
[00:38:08]  What do you think happened to the guy who gave him that great deal, Alexander Acosta?
[00:38:12]  He's Donald Trump's Secretary of Labor.
[00:38:18]  You didn't let me guess.
[00:38:20]  I was going to say something good and wholesome.
[00:38:26]  That's so bad.
[00:38:27]  When questioned about his role in letting a criminal network of child molesters off the hook in exchange for giving one guy a slap on the wrist, Acosta said, quote, at the end of the day, based on the evidence, professionals within a prosecutor's office decided that a plea that guarantees someone goes to jail, that guarantees he registers as a sex offender generally and guarantees other outcomes, is a good thing.
[00:38:47]  How long did he go to jail for?
[00:38:50]  Well, we'll get into that.
[00:38:51]  You said he got...
[00:38:52]  Okay.
[00:38:53]  Yeah.
[00:38:53]  Well, Epstein.
[00:38:54]  You said he got more than a year.
[00:38:56]  Yeah.
[00:38:56]  Which sucks.
[00:38:59]  Epstein was required to register as a sex offender and pay restitution to three dozen victims.
[00:39:04]  He was also required to admit to committing only one offense against an underage girl.
[00:39:08]  And that girl was labeled a prostitute in the official court documents, although she was 14 at the time.
[00:39:14]  Just so we're clear, there is no such thing as a 14-year-old prostitute.
[00:39:18]  By law, any 14-year-old having sex with an adult is a rape victim.
[00:39:22]  Any 14-year-old being sold for sex is a trafficking victim.
[00:39:25]  There is no such thing as a 14-year-old prostitute unless you are as wealthy as Jeff Epstein.
[00:39:31]  So, the 36 women he had to pay did get sizable chunks of money, but only after enduring multiple years of having their lives torn apart by Epstein's army of private eyes and lawyers.
[00:39:40]  Jenna Lisa Jones, who says Epstein molested her when she was 14, later recalled, you beat yourself up mentally and physically.
[00:39:47]  You can't ever stop your thoughts.
[00:39:48]  A word can trigger something.
[00:39:50]  For me, it is the word pure because he called me pure in that room, and then I remember what he did to me in that room.
[00:39:59]  You're leaving air there for me to make a joke, it seems, or to have some kind of comment other than like.
[00:40:05]  No, it's either vomiting or screaming.
[00:40:08]  I don't want to.
[00:40:08]  It's worse than that.
[00:40:09]  It's ad plug time.
[00:40:11]  Oh, my God.
[00:40:13]  I know.
[00:40:14]  What a bad line to lead into ads on.
[00:40:20]  Oh, this is why we have trouble, Dan.

=== Pure Word Triggers (04:01) ===

[00:40:23]  I hope you're happy to be associated with this.
[00:40:27]  Whatever it is, the name of that company that the Culture Kings used to buy shoes on.
[00:40:30]  I forget.
[00:40:32]  They haven't advertised on me.
[00:40:34]  They haven't?
[00:40:34]  Oh, well, they won't now.
[00:40:35]  No.
[00:40:36]  We should get like a guillotine manufacturer or something like that on board.
[00:40:44]  Those are thriving now, huh?
[00:40:47]  Yeah, it's coming back, baby.
[00:40:49]  Okay, well, we'll talk about the exact nature of how much time Jeffrey Epstein did and what his time in jail, not prison, was like.
[00:40:58]  But first, produce.
[00:41:01]  Products.
[00:41:06]  I went and sat on the little ottoman in front of him.
[00:41:09]  I said, hi, dad.
[00:41:11]  And just when I said that, my mom comes out of the kitchen and she says, I have some cookies and milk.
[00:41:19]  This is this badass convict.
[00:41:21]  Right.
[00:41:21]  Just finished five years.
[00:41:23]  I'm going to have cookies and milk.
[00:41:25]  Come on.
[00:41:27]  On the Ceno Show podcast, each episode invites you into a raw, unfiltered conversations about recovery, resilience, and redemption.
[00:41:35]  On a recent episode, I sit down with actor, cultural icon Danny Trail to talk about addiction, transformation, and the power of second chances.
[00:41:44]  The entire season two is now available to binge, featuring powerful conversations with guests like Tiffany Addish, Johnny Knoxville, and more.
[00:41:52]  I'm an alcoholic.
[00:41:54]  Wow.
[00:41:56]  This program, I'm a die.
[00:41:58]  Open your free iHeartRadio app.
[00:42:00]  Search the Ceno Show.
[00:42:02]  And listen now.
[00:42:07]  I feel like it was a little bit unbelievable until I really start making money.
[00:42:12]  It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast Eating While Broke is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future.
[00:42:20]  This month, hear from top streamer Zoe Spencer and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum Pierre as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up.
[00:42:29]  If I'm outside with my parents and they see all these people come up to me for a pitch, it's just like, what?
[00:42:34]  Today now, obviously, it's like 100%.
[00:42:37]  They believe everything.
[00:42:38]  But at first, it was just like, you got to go get a real job.
[00:42:42]  There's an economic component to communities thriving.
[00:42:45]  If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail.
[00:42:49]  And what I mean by fail is they don't have money to pay for food.
[00:42:51]  They cannot feed their kids.
[00:42:52]  They do not have homes.
[00:42:53]  Communities don't work unless there's money flowing through them.
[00:42:57]  Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
[00:43:06]  Hi, I'm Bob Pippman, chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia, and I'm kicking off a brand new season of my podcast, Math and Magic, Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing.
[00:43:14]  Math and Magic takes you behind the scenes of the biggest businesses and industries while sharing insights from the smartest minds in marketing.
[00:43:21]  I'm talking to leaders from the entertainment industry to finance and everywhere in between.
[00:43:25]  This season on Math and Magic, I'm talking to CEO of Liquid Death, Mike Cesario, financier and public health advocate Mike Milken, take-to interactive CEO Strauss Zelnick.
[00:43:36]  If you're unable to take meaningful creative risk and therefore run the risk of making horrible creative mistakes, then you can't play in this business.
[00:43:44]  Sesame Street CEO Sherry Weston and our own chief business officer, Lisa Coffey.
[00:43:50]  Making consumers see the value of the human voice and to have that guaranteed human promise behind it really makes it rise to the top.
[00:43:59]  Listen to Math and Magic, stories from the frontiers of marketing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
[00:44:07]  When you listen to podcasts about AI and tech and the future of humanity, the hosts always act like they know what they're talking about and they are experts at everything.
[00:44:15]  Here at the Nick Dick and Pole show, we're not afraid to make mistakes.
[00:44:20]  What Koogler did that I think was so unique?
[00:44:23]  He's the writer director.

=== Justice Might Get Done (14:19) ===

[00:44:25]  Who do you think he is?
[00:44:26]  I don't know.
[00:44:28]  You meet the like the president?
[00:44:29]  You think it goes to president?
[00:44:30]  You think Canada has a president?
[00:44:32]  You think China has a president?
[00:44:33]  Lazo Cruzette.
[00:44:36]  God, I love that thing.
[00:44:38]  I use it all the time.
[00:44:39]  I wrap it in a blanket and sing to it.
[00:44:43]  It's like the old Polish saying, not my monkeys, not my circus.
[00:44:47]  Yep.
[00:44:47]  It's a good one.
[00:44:48]  I like that saying.
[00:44:49]  It's an actual Polish saying.
[00:44:51]  It is an actual Polish saying.
[00:44:52]  Better version of Play Stupid Games, Win Stupid Prizes.
[00:44:55]  Yes.
[00:44:56]  Which, by the way, wasn't Taylor Swift who said that for the first time.
[00:44:58]  I actually, I thought it was.
[00:44:59]  I got that wrong.
[00:45:00]  Listen to the Nick Dick and Pole Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:45:10]  We're back.
[00:45:12]  Now.
[00:45:16]  Yeah, this is a rough one.
[00:45:20]  Dan, at the point at which that plea agreement was reached, Detective Ricari said that he and his team had identified about 50 victims, all of whom told nearly identical stories.
[00:45:30]  The Miami Herald's investigation found more than 80 victims.
[00:45:34]  In 2009, Epstein's former butler, a guy named Rodriguez, tried to sell Epstein's little black book to an undercover FBI agent pretending to be a lawyer.
[00:45:42]  You know, this is illegal.
[00:45:44]  You can't do that.
[00:45:45]  And he served some time in prison.
[00:45:47]  More time than Epstein served for running a child rape ring.
[00:45:51]  14 months is what Epstein did.
[00:45:53]  That's not enough time, Evans.
[00:45:55]  And he did not go to prison.
[00:45:56]  Epstein went to a jail, a private luxury jail, basically a country club with bars, the absolute minimum level of security and restriction possible for an incarcerated person.
[00:46:07]  And he didn't even have to stay there all the time.
[00:46:10]  He was allowed out on work release for up to 12 hours a day, six days a week, which he spent in his own office, taking male and female visitors freely with no oversight by the deputies who sat outside the reception room and waited for him to go home.
[00:46:24]  Also...
[00:46:25]  What work is he still doing?
[00:46:27]  He was having sex with people, Dan.
[00:46:31]  Also, he paid the salaries of those deputies while they were watching him.
[00:46:36]  There's no conflict of interest there.
[00:46:38]  Nope.
[00:46:40]  Here's the Miami Herald again.
[00:46:42]  In their early reports in July 2008, the deputies referred to Epstein as inmate, but within a few weeks, the language had changed and he was called a client.
[00:46:50]  He was occasionally allowed to take a break for lunch by sitting outside in a park, the records show, and they also gave him permission to scout for a new office.
[00:46:58]  While on work release, he was required to wear an ankle bracelet to monitor his whereabouts.
[00:47:03]  So that's something.
[00:47:05]  Now, disagree.
[00:47:09]  Epstein's work release was approved by the Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office because they say he met the criteria for their work release program and there was no factual basis to deny the program to him when any other inmate in his situation would have been eligible.
[00:47:22]  However, an incredibly basic amount of digging, literally reading the department's work release policy, reveals that sex offenders are specifically ineligible for work release.
[00:47:31]  When questioned about this, a department spokesperson first claimed that Epstein was not a sex offender at the time and then clammed up and stopped responding when it was noted that he had been required to register as a sex offender.
[00:47:43]  Also, it came out that Epstein was, yeah, paying the officers who guarded him while he was out on work release.
[00:47:48]  So that's good.
[00:47:50]  That seems like justice.
[00:47:52]  Now, I will say, Dan, Epstein's lifestyle certainly took a hit during his time in jail.
[00:47:56]  A report by the Smoking Gun revealed that his purchases from what his purchases were from the jail commissary.
[00:48:02]  He spent most of his money on teriyaki meatsticks, pop-tarts, and little chub sausages, along with substantial quantities of lubraderm and the finest leather shoes a jail store could provide.
[00:48:12]  They were what are the finest leather shoes a jail store can provide?
[00:48:16]  I haven't been to jail in a while, and I don't really know how the market has shifted since.
[00:48:20]  They cost $72, so I'm going to assume it's a serious step down from Epstein's usual leather shoes.
[00:48:26]  That's more than I typically spend on shoes, though.
[00:48:28]  Yeah, more than, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:48:30]  Now, during his parole, he spent like a year on parole after he got out of jail, where he was supposed to be, you know, confined to staying in Florida.
[00:48:39]  But every time he requested to travel outside of the state, his requests were granted, seemingly with no resistance.
[00:48:44]  After his parole, in the almost decades since it ended, Jeffrey Epstein has continued to enjoy a life of unbridled excess.
[00:48:51]  He bought a new private jet.
[00:48:52]  He switched his permanent residence to his island, Little St. Jeff, since New York and Florida required him to register as a sex offender.
[00:49:00]  Whatever the truth behind Epstein's rise to wealth and power, it's clear that his financial resources are still seemingly inexhaustible.
[00:49:06]  He's continued to donate to charities, funding scientific research, and even starting an online TV network, Nero TV, that focuses on interviews with great thinkers and scientists.
[00:49:15]  His great and good friends seem to have forgiven him his trespasses.
[00:49:18]  Stephen Hawking visited his island in 2006.
[00:49:21]  In 2010, his island or he hosted Katie Couric, George Stephanopoulos, Chelsea Handler, and Woody Allen to a lavish dinner.
[00:49:29]  Woody Allen, I get.
[00:49:31]  Yeah, I get why Woody Allen didn't have any issues with this.
[00:49:37]  Alan Dershowitz, who at age 80 seems to spend most of his free time defending the Trump administration on TV, responds to questions about his representation of Epstein with lines like, I plead guilty to making a deal that was favorable to my client.
[00:49:50]  Kenneth Starr said, I was happy to respond to the needs of a client of the firm.
[00:49:54]  When Daily Beast reporter Alexandra Wolf questioned theoretical physicist and professor Lawrence Krauss about his friend and benefactor, Jeff Epstein, Krauss said, quote, as a scientist, I always judge things on empirical evidence, and he always has women aged 19 to 23 around him, but I've never seen anything else.
[00:50:14]  Normally, yeah, that's a troubling quote.
[00:50:17]  Do you ever think about shaking the show up and like doing something that won't bum people out?
[00:50:21]  Is that on your list as like a Christmas episode?
[00:50:25]  We did that Christmas episode about Raul Wallenberg, the guy who saved 100,000 Jewish people during the Holocaust and then got murdered by the Soviets.
[00:50:34]  Okay, and that's your example as like a thing that doesn't bum people out?
[00:50:36]  Yeah, that's upbeat for us.
[00:50:38]  Okay.
[00:50:40]  Sure.
[00:50:45]  Now, Epstein has, of course, continued to fight his accusers in court over dozens of lawsuits across the last several years.
[00:50:51]  He settled a civil case against him just last December.
[00:50:54]  There is currently a pending suit in Florida that seeks to throw out the entire non-prosecution agreement against him on the basis that it was illegal to make because dozens of Epstein's victims were never given the chance to know about it.
[00:51:06]  So, Dan, I will end this on a little bit of an upside note.
[00:51:09]  It is still possible that some version of justice will be done and that some of his named and potential co-conspirators might finally have to spend time in court.
[00:51:17]  It's not necessarily likely that this will happen, but it is possible.
[00:51:21]  That's the happiest ending I got for you, man.
[00:51:24]  Unlikely but possible.
[00:51:26]  Yeah.
[00:51:27]  Eventually, justice might get done.
[00:51:30]  All right.
[00:51:31]  That's the.
[00:51:33]  Put that on a fucking bumper sticker and then drive that car right off the cliff.
[00:51:37]  And Dan, I mean, this is pretty bad.
[00:51:39]  Alexander Acosta was in line to become the new Attorney General, and then people made a big fuss out of him letting this serial pedophile off, and he had to just stay the Secretary of Labor.
[00:51:51]  That's a bummer for him and his family of goblins.
[00:51:53]  Yeah, and his family of goblins.
[00:51:55]  I bet the health plan isn't as good as Secretary of Labor.
[00:51:58]  Yeah.
[00:51:59]  Yeah.
[00:52:01]  Hey, man, this sucks.
[00:52:02]  This whole thing sucks.
[00:52:03]  Real bad.
[00:52:04]  This is a real, real, real soul crusher.
[00:52:08]  Can you tell me what Jeffrey is doing right now?
[00:52:12]  Spending most of his time on his private island, still probably having a lot of sex with very young people.
[00:52:20]  Is he professionally, like, does he run a consulting firm?
[00:52:23]  Is he still doing schemes?
[00:52:28]  Yeah.
[00:52:29]  He still manages money, I suspect.
[00:52:31]  If he ever did much of that, like, that's the thing I have to wonder.
[00:52:34]  Like, the conspiratorial side of me thinks, like, yeah, shit, maybe he was just pimping out kids and getting paid by rich people for that.
[00:52:42]  I don't know.
[00:52:43]  It was probably a mix.
[00:52:44]  He probably did some financial stuff, but like, clearly, who knows what he's doing now, other than being impossibly wealthy and owning a house in Manhattan that could comfortably house 10,000 at least of the 23,000 homeless kids in the city.
[00:53:03]  Sure.
[00:53:03]  I don't know, Dan.
[00:53:08]  Woo!
[00:53:10]  You want to plug your Twitter?
[00:53:12]  No, I don't.
[00:53:14]  I mean, I maintain a pretty strict.
[00:53:19]  I don't plug Twitter or Instagram.
[00:53:22]  So I don't know.
[00:53:22]  It's like my least favorite part of podcasts.
[00:53:24]  When it gets to the end, it's like, so where can people find you online?
[00:53:26]  I understand it's good for creators to do everything, but just like as a podcast listener, I hate it.
[00:53:31]  I will tell our listeners.
[00:53:33]  Childrenofthenight.org is a great organization.
[00:53:35]  I mentioned that in the last podcast for children rescued from childhood prostitution.
[00:53:41]  You should support them in any way that you can.
[00:53:45]  I will plug a thing that I'm associated with just because there are other people who work there that aren't just me.
[00:53:50]  So it feels less selfish.
[00:53:52]  I write for a show called Last Week Tonight.
[00:53:55]  It requires a lot of work from a lot of people.
[00:53:57]  We have an amazing staff of writers, researchers, producers, footage people, directors, and they all work very hard and spend a lot of time reading about horrible issues the same way that Evans does.
[00:54:08]  And then at the end of the week, we try to present that work to you in a 30-minute, occasionally funny, attempting to be funny, but always trying to be informative format.
[00:54:20]  Lessons and jokes, you know?
[00:54:22]  So check out Last Week Tonight if you have HBO.
[00:54:26]  Yeah.
[00:54:26]  Check out Last Week Tonight, and I'm going to plug a thing.
[00:54:29]  That's probably the worst.
[00:54:30]  I'm going to get fired.
[00:54:31]  That's probably the worst plug.
[00:54:36]  I am going to plug your book since you didn't.
[00:54:39]  If you could use a pick-me-up after all of these horrible stories of child molestation, Dan O'Brien has a really fun and entertaining and educational book called How to Fight Presidents.
[00:54:49]  And after this episode, you probably want to fight a couple of presidents.
[00:54:53]  Yeah.
[00:54:54]  Yeah.
[00:54:55]  The main one that you're going to want to fight, the main two that you're going to want to fight.
[00:54:58]  Yeah.
[00:54:58]  They're not featured in the book.
[00:54:59]  They're not apologizing.
[00:55:01]  But you can synthesize some of that information.
[00:55:04]  And maybe this episode will get Dan talked to by the Secret Service again.
[00:55:10]  Yeah, sure.
[00:55:11]  That's fine.
[00:55:12]  We're all pals at this point.
[00:55:14]  They got you on speed, dial.
[00:55:16]  Well, I'm Robert Evans.
[00:55:18]  I also think you should donate to Children of the Night or volunteer if that is possible in your area.
[00:55:25]  And now I'm going to seamlessly transition to saying you can buy t-shirts and hoodies and stickers from RT Public store behind the Bastards.
[00:55:34]  We've got a Raul Wallenberg hoodie.
[00:55:37]  Save lives.
[00:55:38]  Do crimes.
[00:55:39]  That's my motto.
[00:55:40]  Not the kind of crimes Epstein did.
[00:55:44]  Are you still doing the Nachos one?
[00:55:46]  We do have Nachos Not Nazis, Doritos, not Dictators.
[00:55:50]  Doritos has not sued us for using the name of their product.
[00:55:53]  So that counts as a kind of support.
[00:55:55]  That's good.
[00:55:56]  Yeah.
[00:55:57]  Thanks, John Dorito.
[00:55:59]  Well, you can find this podcast on Twitter and Instagram at BastardsPod.
[00:56:03]  You can find us on the internet at behindthebastards.com along with all of the articles and sources and stuff for this podcast of horrors.
[00:56:13]  That's all.
[00:56:14]  We'll be back next week with something else that will break your heart and that you'll listen to for reasons that are beyond my understanding.
[00:56:23]  I love about 40% of you.
[00:56:32]  Ernest, what's up?
[00:56:33]  Look, money is something we all deal with, but financial literacy is what helps turn income into real wealth.
[00:56:38]  On each episode of the podcast, Earn Your Leisure, we break down the conversations you need to understand money, investing, and entrepreneurship.
[00:56:45]  From stocks and real estate to credit, business, and generational wealth, our goal is simple: make financial literacy accessible for everyone.
[00:56:53]  Because when you understand the system, you can start to build within it.
[00:56:56]  Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Earn Your Leisure, and listen now.
[00:57:02]  You know the famous author Roald Dahl.
[00:57:03]  He thought up Willy Wonka and the BFG.
[00:57:06]  But did you know he was a spy?
[00:57:08]  Neither did I. You can hear all about his wildlife story in the podcast, The Secret World of Roald Dahl.
[00:57:15]  All episodes are out now.
[00:57:17]  Was this before he wrote his stories?
[00:57:18]  It must have been.
[00:57:19]  What?
[00:57:20]  Okay, I don't think that's true.
[00:57:22]  I'm telling you, because I was a spy.
[00:57:24]  Binge all 10 episodes of The Secret World of Roald Dahl now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:57:32]  Readers, Katie's finalists, publicists.
[00:57:34]  We have an incredible new episode this week for you guys.
[00:57:37]  We have our girl Hillary Duff in here, and we can't wait for you to hear this episode.
[00:57:41]  They put on Lindsay McGuire 2 a.m. video on demand.
[00:57:43]  This guy's 2 a.m.
[00:57:44]  2 a.m.
[00:57:45]  Whatever time it is.
[00:57:46]  Lindsey McGuire and I'm like wild bats you were waiting.
[00:57:49]  It was like a first closet moment for me where I was like, I don't feel like she's hot like the rest of them.
[00:57:53]  No, no, no.
[00:57:54]  I was like, she's beautiful, but I'm appreciating her in a different way than these boys are.
[00:57:58]  I'm not like, listen to Las Culturalistas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
[00:58:10]  How much away, Wanda?
[00:58:11]  Right now, I'm about 130.
[00:58:12]  I'm at 183.
[00:58:13]  We should race.
[00:58:14]  No, I want to leave here with my original hips.
[00:58:17]  On the podcast, The Match Up with Aaliyah, I pair prominent female athletes with unexpected guests.
[00:58:21]  On a recent episode, I sat down with undisputed boxing champ Clarissa Shields and comedian Wanda Sykes to talk about Wanda's new movie, Undercard, The Art of Trash Talk, and What It Really Means to Be Ladylike.
[00:58:31]  Open your free iHeartRadio app, search the matchup with Aaliyah, and listen now.
[00:58:35]  Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of iHeartWomen's Sports Network.
[00:58:40]  This is an iHeart podcast.
[00:58:43]  Guaranteed human.