Behind the Bastards - Part One: The Complete, Insane Story of Trump University
Aired: 2019-03-05
Duration: 01:18:55


=== Trump University Scandals (14:55) ===

[00:00:00]  This is an iHeart podcast.
[00:00:02]  Guaranteed human.
[00:00:04]  In 2023, bachelor star Clayton Eckard was accused of fathering twins, but the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax.
[00:00:11]  You doctored this particular test twice, Miss Owens, correct?
[00:00:15]  I doctored the test once.
[00:00:17]  It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern.
[00:00:22]  Two more men who'd been through the same thing.
[00:00:24]  Greg Goespie and Michael Mancini.
[00:00:26]  My mind was blown.
[00:00:27]  I'm Stephanie Young.
[00:00:29]  This is Love Trapped.
[00:00:30]  Laura, Scottsdale Police.
[00:00:32]  As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.
[00:00:37]  Listen to Love Trapped Podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:00:44]  10-10 shots fired, City Hall building.
[00:00:47]  Did this ever happen in City Hall?
[00:00:49]  Somebody tell me that.
[00:00:50]  A shocking public murder.
[00:00:52]  This is one of the most dramatic events that really ever happened in New York City politics.
[00:00:58]  They screamed, get down, get down.
[00:01:00]  Those are shots.
[00:01:02]  A tragedy that's now forgotten.
[00:01:04]  And a mystery that may or may not have been political.
[00:01:07]  That may have been about sex.
[00:01:09]  Listen to Rorschach, murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:01:18]  When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands.
[00:01:26]  I vowed I will be his last target.
[00:01:29]  He is not going to get away with this.
[00:01:31]  He's going to get what he deserves.
[00:01:33]  We always say that.
[00:01:35]  Trust your girlfriends.
[00:01:38]  Listen to the girlfriends.
[00:01:39]  Trust me, babe.
[00:01:40]  On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:01:50]  I'm Laurie Siegel, and this is Mostly Human, a tech podcast through a human lens.
[00:01:54]  This week, an interview with OpenAI CEO Sam Altman.
[00:01:58]  I think society is going to decide that creators of AI products bear a tremendous amount of responsibility to the products we put out in the world.
[00:02:05]  An in-depth conversation with the man who's shaping our future.
[00:02:09]  My highest order bit is to not destroy the world with AI.
[00:02:12]  Listen to Mostly Human on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
[00:02:24]  What's popping my bubble wraps?
[00:02:26]  Nope.
[00:02:26]  Nope.
[00:02:27]  That was another failure.
[00:02:28]  It can't all be, can't all be hit, Sophie.
[00:02:31]  I'm Robert Evans.
[00:02:32]  This is Behind the Bastards, the show where I tell you everything you don't know about the very worst people in all of history.
[00:02:37]  And like every third episode, I pick a really bad introduction to try out.
[00:02:42]  But we're going to hit a new catchphrase.
[00:02:45]  Yeah.
[00:02:45]  Yeah.
[00:02:46]  Thank you.
[00:02:46]  Thank you for your vote of confidence, Sophie.
[00:02:48]  She doesn't believe in me.
[00:02:49]  Nobody does.
[00:02:50]  But, you know, who does believe in me is my guest today, Miles Gray.
[00:02:56]  Hello, Miles.
[00:02:57]  Man, really great to do a podcast.
[00:02:59]  I got to tell you.
[00:03:00]  You love that?
[00:03:01]  I'm loving it.
[00:03:02]  You know, I'm loving everything about today.
[00:03:04]  So it's great to be here.
[00:03:06]  You don't get a lot of podcasts in your life.
[00:03:08]  No.
[00:03:08]  And it's kind of cool.
[00:03:10]  Miles, we're talking about Trump University today.
[00:03:12]  What do you know about Trump University?
[00:03:14]  I mean, not that much.
[00:03:15]  I mean, I know, you know, the basics.
[00:03:17]  You know, the president had a fraudulent university.
[00:03:20]  Yes.
[00:03:20]  And I think like a lot, not all, but many for-profit colleges and universities, it's just a big graft.
[00:03:28]  Yeah.
[00:03:28]  It's a big con game.
[00:03:30]  I think most people know that much that like he had a for-profit university and it was scammier than full sale.
[00:03:37]  What's full sale?
[00:03:38]  The one for like the entertainment industry or something?
[00:03:41]  They'll put you, you're going to be working on video games in a year, buddy.
[00:03:44]  Or yeah, that kind of shit.
[00:03:45]  Being the custodian at a developer office.
[00:03:49]  Yeah.
[00:03:50]  It's crazy how you'll be certified to clean a server room.
[00:03:54]  It might say something dangerous about our society that one of the most successful and profitable cons of all time involved dozens of different people independently making fake schools to grift people out of money.
[00:04:07]  That might say something really bad about us.
[00:04:09]  Yeah.
[00:04:09]  Yeah.
[00:04:10]  But I mean, it's clever.
[00:04:11]  It's clever.
[00:04:12]  It's a smart.
[00:04:12]  It's a great con.
[00:04:14]  Today, we're not going to be talking about a great con.
[00:04:16]  Ah.
[00:04:17]  Yeah.
[00:04:17]  But it made money.
[00:04:19]  It's just a straightforward, just bullshit university.
[00:04:22]  It's not straightforward.
[00:04:23]  Okay.
[00:04:23]  Well, that's good.
[00:04:24]  It's just not as good a con as the university of  ⁇ now, about once a week, someone on Twitter will be like, you should do, when's your Donald Trump episode coming out?
[00:04:31]  And I'm never going to do a whole episode about just his life because it's been covered too many times.
[00:04:37]  Yeah, just search any other podcast.
[00:04:39]  Yeah, there's a ton of, but I was always kind of, Trump University is one of those things that like I knew something shady had gone on.
[00:04:46]  I knew he'd gotten sued and ordered to repay a bunch of money to people who got defrauded.
[00:04:50]  But I didn't really know anything about it.
[00:04:52]  And so I just kind of got interested in like reading about Trump University.
[00:04:57]  Okay.
[00:04:57]  And so like this weekend, I got really high and I couldn't sleep.
[00:05:00]  And I found a book called Trump You Inside Trump University written by a guy named Stephen Gilpin.
[00:05:05]  Now Stephen bills himself as essentially the only honest man inside Trump University.
[00:05:10]  And I think he's fudging the truth to some degree, but a lot of what he says sounds credible.
[00:05:16]  He's not like totally, he definitely writes himself out of having a role in the bad parts.
[00:05:21]  Right, right, right.
[00:05:22]  Yeah.
[00:05:22]  He's like Tiffany Trump.
[00:05:24]  He's like, you know, where she's like, yeah, it's my dad, but like, I'm like the one who's like wearing white at the State of the Union, talking shit behind his back, trying to save my own rep. This is a bad look.
[00:05:34]  I mean, yeah, all the like, you know, rumor stuff about her is that like she's just hates like what is what her life has become, or at least likes to openly talk shit about her dad.
[00:05:44]  I could see that being true.
[00:05:46]  That's, that's a rough position as a kid.
[00:05:48]  Yeah.
[00:05:48]  I don't, I, I mean, we joke.
[00:05:50]  I feel like he doesn't even probably know her actual name.
[00:05:52]  Yeah.
[00:05:52]  He's like, and you.
[00:05:54]  No, I mean, she's talked to any given New York Times White House correspondent more than he has Tiffany.
[00:05:59]  Yeah.
[00:06:00]  Seriously, Maggie Haberman.
[00:06:01]  He's like, are you Maggie?
[00:06:02]  He's like, no, dad.
[00:06:04]  Probably no.
[00:06:04]  The New York Times journalist.
[00:06:07]  Okay.
[00:06:08]  So, sorry.
[00:06:09]  So he is an insider.
[00:06:10]  He's a whistleblower.
[00:06:11]  He's one of the sources we'll have for this.
[00:06:14]  Well, whistleblower is the wrong word.
[00:06:16]  He got paid to write a book about it after the president started running for the president.
[00:06:19]  So he's like a for-hire whistle player.
[00:06:22]  He's a band.
[00:06:24]  He's a lower echelon of grifter.
[00:06:27]  Yeah.
[00:06:27]  Right, right, right.
[00:06:28]  It's a fair grift.
[00:06:29]  Like, people want to know about this thing.
[00:06:30]  You have the experience.
[00:06:31]  Okay.
[00:06:32]  I'm not going to call you a bad person for cashing in on it at that point.
[00:06:36]  But he's not a hero for sure.
[00:06:40]  He was a foot soldier in this case.
[00:06:41]  Yeah, yeah, of course.
[00:06:42]  And he's just capitalizing on his bad deeds.
[00:06:44]  But we all would.
[00:06:45]  It's America, baby.
[00:06:46]  Hey, if you want to hire me for your fraudulent university, I can be reached on Twitter at iWriteOK.
[00:06:53]  What would you teach?
[00:06:54]  Yeah, whatever.
[00:06:55]  Surgery.
[00:06:56]  It's all good.
[00:06:57]  That sounds so dope.
[00:06:58]  Yeah.
[00:06:59]  Yeah, teach surgery.
[00:07:00]  Just cut open animals because this is my dude, Professor Roberts, tight.
[00:07:05]  We did surgery on a fucking dead cow with a samurai sword.
[00:07:09]  He was just chopping away.
[00:07:10]  He just stabbed the shit out of it.
[00:07:12]  I don't know.
[00:07:12]  He said it was like a bypass.
[00:07:14]  Now we're all MDs.
[00:07:15]  This class is just 40 days.
[00:07:20]  Oh, boy.
[00:07:21]  Yeah, when I get rich, that's my plan.
[00:07:23]  Fake university.
[00:07:24]  Fake medical.
[00:07:24]  And I respect that.
[00:07:25]  I support it.
[00:07:26]  Tell me where to sign.
[00:07:27]  So the story of Trump University starts in 2004 when Donald Trump, Michael Sexton, and some guy named Jonathan formed Trump University LLC.
[00:07:34]  At this point, the vision was that Trump U would be a long-distance web learning solution where busy housewives and people looking to start a second career could take courses in real estate and business management.
[00:07:44]  Michael Sexton, a longtime Trump employee, noted that the company also planned to experiment with live instructional programs.
[00:07:50]  Trump's lawyer filed for a patent around the same time claiming that Trump U would provide, quote, educational services in the nature of conducting online courses in the fields of business and real estate.
[00:08:00]  So, okay.
[00:08:02]  It's supposed to be like an online business.
[00:08:04]  Yeah, just whatever it's real estate, it's business.
[00:08:07]  Yeah.
[00:08:07]  It's making money, baby.
[00:08:09]  It's making money, baby.
[00:08:10]  So the first headquarters for Trump University was one of the few buildings Donald Trump actually owns.
[00:08:14]  72 Tower Trump Building in 40 Wall Street in Midtown Manhattan.
[00:08:19]  Now, the building is an interesting space.
[00:08:21]  It costs per square foot about half the going rate of space in that part of Manhattan.
[00:08:26]  Why would a skyscraper in such an illustrious location be so cheap?
[00:08:30]  Yeah.
[00:08:30]  Bloomberg.com.
[00:08:32]  That's a little bit of an explanation.
[00:08:33]  Okay.
[00:08:34]  Yeah.
[00:08:34]  Since Donald Trump took over 40 Wall Street in 1995, prosecutors have filed criminal charges against at least 29 people conducted to 12 alleged scams tied to the building.
[00:08:43]  Nine other firms have faced serious regulatory claims.
[00:08:46]  Authorities prevailed in most but not all of the cases.
[00:08:49]  So it's a scam city.
[00:08:52]  Scam city tower.
[00:08:55]  Donald Trump's strategy with the Trump building seems to be this.
[00:08:57]  Give shady-ass people an opportunity to rent dirt cheap Wall Street real estate so they can put that address on their documents and pretend to be legitimate companies.
[00:09:06]  Like, how could this be a fake?
[00:09:08]  40 Wall Street, New York?
[00:09:09]  New York?
[00:09:10]  Oh, shit.
[00:09:10]  Oh, you don't believe it?
[00:09:11]  Pull up to the building.
[00:09:13]  It's a real thing.
[00:09:13]  We got an office.
[00:09:14]  It's just big enough for a single desk.
[00:09:16]  It's a single phone on the floor, on a milk crate.
[00:09:20]  Wow.
[00:09:21]  Of course.
[00:09:22]  I mean, of course.
[00:09:23]  I don't know why I'm always surprised, but that's kind of cool.
[00:09:26]  That's like for the people who have those private jets that are on the tarmac and they're like, you know, for 500 bucks, you can have a photo shoot in here.
[00:09:33]  Yeah.
[00:09:34]  And pretend that you are wealthy.
[00:09:36]  That you're wealthy.
[00:09:36]  Well, you're still probably wealthy if you're blowing 500 bucks on a photo shoot, but you're not private jet wealth.
[00:09:41]  Yeah, but they're also, I've also seen the kind of person who is so hell-bent on, you know, boosting their Instagram visibility that they would go well out of their resources to do something like that.
[00:09:54]  That is the dumbest thing I can think of doing.
[00:09:58]  Spending $500 to pretend that you have access to a private jet.
[00:10:03]  It's just sad.
[00:10:05]  Yeah, that's the dumb thing.
[00:10:07]  It's like renting a dick extension.
[00:10:10]  Yeah, it's like for a second, but what good is that?
[00:10:13]  You're still the weird needle dick guy.
[00:10:16]  It's like paying a guy with a giant dick to take sex photos that you then send to people or dick pics that you then send to people who haven't asked for them.
[00:10:23]  Right.
[00:10:24]  Pretend that you have a big dick.
[00:10:25]  Even better.
[00:10:26]  Yeah.
[00:10:26]  It's like, it's like, yeah, it's just an eriberose of sad.
[00:10:30]  And then someone who's drawn by that is going to be like, so can I see it?
[00:10:34]  And like, oh, I can take this jet, though.
[00:10:38]  Bigger?
[00:10:41]  Now, there's another fun quote from that Bloomberg article.
[00:10:43]  Quote, a cheap way to get a 40 Wall Street address is to grab space on the 28th floor, which is broken up into small offices.
[00:10:49]  The firms listed in the lobby directory for that floor include Your Trading Room, a foreign exchange operation ordered shut by an Australian court in 2012, an Asian AIM Incubator Co., which Malaysian regulators put on a list of possible scams, Stylish International Law, whose founder was banned from practicing law in Virginia, and Eero Capital Group, run by a man convicted of credit card fraud.
[00:11:11]  Wait, what's the incubator scam?
[00:11:14]  I don't know.
[00:11:16]  We're making money off of the scams this week.
[00:11:21]  Yeah.
[00:11:23]  So it's a scam tower and specifically has a scam floor.
[00:11:27]  So yeah.
[00:11:27]  So is everyone, what's on the other floors, also shady businesses?
[00:11:31]  Some legitimate businesses who just got lucky with the cheap space?
[00:11:34]  Yeah, I'm sure there's someone legitimate working out of there.
[00:11:38]  But it has a reputation with the SEC of being like one of the biggest hosts to fraudulent scams in the country.
[00:11:44]  Yeah, like your easiest callers are just to go look at new businesses like that.
[00:11:48]  See who's working like 40 Wall Street.
[00:11:50]  Okay, this is probably shady.
[00:11:51]  Yeah, but you know, that's the kind of thing only experts are going to notice.
[00:11:54]  Joe Sixpack's thing at home in Milwaukee or Pasadena or Phoenix is going to see Wall Street on an address and assume that it's like legit because New York's got the most expensive real estate in the world.
[00:12:04]  Now, Trump University was not the brainchild of Donald Trump.
[00:12:08]  Michael Sexton, who went on to become the Trump U CEO, had the idea to license the Trump name to sell for-profit education.
[00:12:14]  This new university was announced via a Trump Tower press conference on May 23rd, 2005.
[00:12:20]  Here's Stephen Gilpin, author of Trump You.
[00:12:23]  Quote: With Michael Sexton and other top executives by his side, Donald Trump outlined how Trump University would consist of online courses, CD-ROMs, and other learning programs for business professionals.
[00:12:32]  Bloomberg.com reported on the splashy unveiling.
[00:12:34]  The Donald launches his own online self-directed learning courses, and they differ mightily from the usual fare, wrote Brian Hindo.
[00:12:41]  With business schools around the country uniting Donald Trump's reality TV vehicle, The Apprentice, as a teaching tool, perhaps it was just a matter of time before the Donald cut out the middleman.
[00:12:49]  On May 23rd, the real estate mogul formally launched Trump University, a foray into the fast-growing field of online education.
[00:12:55]  Courses are expected to begin as early as Thursday, May 25th.
[00:12:58]  Hmm, yeah.
[00:12:59]  I just love trying to hang your hat on the fact that you have CD-ROMs as part of your curriculum.
[00:13:06]  Well, it was 2005.
[00:13:07]  I know.
[00:13:07]  It was just simpler days.
[00:13:10]  I do miss CD-ROMs.
[00:13:11]  I do miss CD-ROMs.
[00:13:13]  Now, almost as soon as that press conference was conferenced, the New York State Department of Education sent a letter to Trump University.
[00:13:19]  They politely pointed out that using the term university was actually a violation of state law because no one involved in the project had bothered to go about getting the kind of accreditation that's actually necessary to call yourself a university and offer classes and training.
[00:13:30]  Turns out you can't just do that.
[00:13:32]  Turns out there's like laws about what a university is.
[00:13:35]  Sexton promised the Department of Education that Trump University would not instruct students in New York.
[00:13:39]  He also promised to remove the 40 Wall Street address from the letterhead and promotional material.
[00:13:43]  None of this was done.
[00:13:44]  Sexton, Trump, and company ignored the Department of Education and just plowed ahead with their plan to offer a basically illegal fake school.
[00:13:51]  Wow.
[00:13:52]  Yeah, it's amazing.
[00:13:55]  The fucking balls.
[00:13:56]  Yeah.
[00:13:57]  Man.
[00:13:58]  Yeah, just that's admirable to be a sociopath.
[00:14:01]  Yeah, it's it seems it's at least, I don't know, consistency is impressive to a certain extent.
[00:14:09]  Yeah.
[00:14:10]  I think that's the through line of this whole series.
[00:14:12]  You know, like every time I'm here, it's just always like the balls.
[00:14:17]  The balls.
[00:14:18]  The balls.
[00:14:19]  It's on these bastards.
[00:14:20]  That first mover advantage.
[00:14:22]  Yeah.
[00:14:22]  Like nobody expects you to be the guy who's going to do something this shitty.
[00:14:25]  So if you do it, there's a good chance no one will stop you.
[00:14:28]  Right.
[00:14:29]  Yeah.
[00:14:29]  And that's how it works.
[00:14:31]  That's like, yeah, like if you see someone, you know, eating out of a salad bar, like at a supermarket salad bar, at first you're like, ugh.
[00:14:38]  Oh, I do that all the time.
[00:14:39]  Yeah.
[00:14:39]  And look, no one's probably going to say anything to you.
[00:14:41]  No, nobody ever says anything.
[00:14:42]  No.
[00:14:43]  They just, if anything, they'll speak in hush tones to each other.
[00:14:45]  And I buy elephant garlic at the grocery store, but I go to the self-checkout thing and I make it look like regular garlic.
[00:14:51]  I save like $250 of garlic.
[00:14:53]  Look at you.
[00:14:54]  I'm a monster.

=== The Fake School Con (05:00) ===

[00:14:55]  Just save these tidbits for another podcast called Life Hacks with Robert Evans.
[00:14:59]  With Robert Evans.
[00:15:00]  This is what you do.
[00:15:01]  It's all just, it's the best of scams that I've learned from Behind the Bastards, but in a way that any person can do it.
[00:15:08]  Look, you know, there's two kinds of scams in this world.
[00:15:11]  There's scams that hurt good people, and there's scams that hurt giant entities who can't feel pain.
[00:15:18]  Sure, yeah.
[00:15:19]  Yeah.
[00:15:19]  And then, yeah, sometimes, you know, but unless like, you know, sometimes the people working at the store, they get in trouble because, you know, the corporations are unforgiving.
[00:15:28]  Sometimes I can find a victim for all my thieving.
[00:15:31]  It's terrible, this empathy that I have.
[00:15:33]  Ah, screw it.
[00:15:35]  I mean, this is the show, yeah.
[00:15:38]  It's like stealing stamps from the post office.
[00:15:41]  How do you steal stamps from the post office?
[00:15:43]  Oh, a magician never reveals that he steals the stamps.
[00:15:46]  I love that.
[00:15:47]  That's your flex.
[00:15:48]  Y'all know how to steal stamps from the post office.
[00:15:51]  On my new show, Life Hacks.
[00:15:53]  Life Hacks with Robert Evans.
[00:15:55]  Stealing from the post office.
[00:15:56]  Oh, boy.
[00:15:57]  Okay.
[00:15:57]  So.
[00:15:58]  Where were we?
[00:15:59]  Where were we?
[00:16:00]  Crimes.
[00:16:01]  Yes.
[00:16:02]  So Donald Trump and Mike Sexton and company ignore the Department of Education and just continue to offer an illegal fake school.
[00:16:10]  And it's fine.
[00:16:11]  Wow.
[00:16:12]  That just happens.
[00:16:14]  So.
[00:16:15]  It might have seemed to a lot of people that Trump University was somewhat legitimate at this point, partly because Sexton actually brought on accredited human beings to design the courses.
[00:16:24]  The chief learning officer was a guy named Roger Schenk, a PhD expert in learning science and artificial intelligence.
[00:16:30]  He's the CEO of Socratic Arts, a company that designs curriculums.
[00:16:33]  Several other legitimate educational experts were brought in to design courses.
[00:16:37]  So, you know, you got to think back to 2005 before Donald Trump is the guy he is now.
[00:16:42]  He's on The Apprentice, but like he's just like a rich guy.
[00:16:44]  It's only been like the first one season at that point.
[00:16:46]  And most, yeah, this is like in the first season.
[00:16:48]  And most people don't know that for-profit universities are a scam, you know?
[00:16:51]  Right, right, right.
[00:16:52]  They're like, oh, it's just an alternative.
[00:16:54]  So this does look like, okay, well, they've hired the right people.
[00:16:57]  But where'd the capital come from?
[00:16:59]  They just had those people.
[00:17:00]  Donald Trump put in $3 million.
[00:17:02]  Okay, snap on money.
[00:17:03]  And I hadn't said it yet.
[00:17:04]  Oh, whoops.
[00:17:05]  He funds this.
[00:17:06]  Okay, that makes sense.
[00:17:07]  He drops in $3 million to get this thing off the ground.
[00:17:10]  So they hire people.
[00:17:10]  They put in some resources.
[00:17:12]  It looks like they're trying to make a legitimate-ish school.
[00:17:17]  Like within the standards of the head of curriculum, Mavis Beacon.
[00:17:21]  Yeah.
[00:17:21]  Like, what?
[00:17:22]  No, she only teaches typing.
[00:17:24]  Three online courses were designed at first, each available for $300.
[00:17:27]  So it's not like a ridiculous rate either.
[00:17:30]  These courses offered instruction in real estate, marketing, and entrepreneurship.
[00:17:34]  Students worked online in groups of six to 12 and had the freedom to finish the courses on their own timeframe.
[00:17:38]  Here's how Stephen Gilpin describes these early classes.
[00:17:41]  Quote, entrepreneurship students would be asked to assume the role of a venture capitalist and analyze a business plan.
[00:17:46]  They would then submit their work to classmates for a peer review.
[00:17:48]  A course would consist of three such assignments.
[00:17:51]  People learn the hard way.
[00:17:52]  Trying to replicate the classroom experience isn't particularly effective, said Michael Sexton.
[00:17:56]  Education is worthless without feedback.
[00:17:58]  This system enables however many students we have to get live feedback about their work.
[00:18:02]  This is not for somebody who wants to put a sheepskin on a wall and think that is going to meaningfully help their career.
[00:18:07]  Wait, what's that mean?
[00:18:09]  I think like a diploma.
[00:18:10]  Like this isn't just a bullman bill.
[00:18:12]  Where is that a channel?
[00:18:13]  Do they call that a sheepskin?
[00:18:14]  I'd never heard that before, but I feel like everyone who works with Donald Trump was born in the 20s.
[00:18:19]  Right.
[00:18:19]  It uses weird words.
[00:18:21]  The diploma was on a sheepskin.
[00:18:22]  Yeah.
[00:18:24]  But you can also see like already it's kind of a con because you're having your work graded by like when you put it that way, it sounds legitimate, but your work's being graded by your fellow students because that's cheaper.
[00:18:34]  Right.
[00:18:35]  And then they don't give a fuck either.
[00:18:36]  Like that all depends on what those other students are putting in.
[00:18:40]  If that was me, I wouldn't read anybody's thing and I would be like, yeah, it felt a little derivative.
[00:18:45]  It felt a little derivative.
[00:18:46]  And that would be my feedback for everything because I'm not reading it.
[00:18:49]  I'm not doing the work.
[00:18:50]  No, not if you're paying 300 bucks to supposedly have anything.
[00:18:53]  I can't because I'm swindling myself with my lack of effort.
[00:18:57]  The scam within the scam.
[00:18:58]  Yeah.
[00:18:58]  There's always a bin.
[00:19:01]  So at this stage, it's definitely a kind of con, but it's not really much more of a con than other for-profit universities, right?
[00:19:08]  Students aren't paying insane prices for these courses.
[00:19:11]  So nobody's going to go deep in debt paying $300 for three courses.
[00:19:15]  Yeah, for nothing.
[00:19:16]  That's $900.
[00:19:18]  You know, that sucks to lose, but it's not that bad.
[00:19:20]  Yeah, for information you probably could have got from like Googling, like, how do I become a business?
[00:19:24]  How do I become a businessman?
[00:19:26]  Yeah, and compared to like full-sale university, like Trump University kind of verged on legitimate.
[00:19:31]  Like, it seems like a pretty good deal.
[00:19:33]  It's your beef with full sale.
[00:19:35]  Are they that egregious with their...
[00:19:38]  I remember as a kid, all the video game magazines I would read, like PC Gamer, would always have ads for full sale.
[00:19:44]  And one of my friends wound up paying them a lot of money because that was his lifelong dream and he didn't know any better.
[00:19:49]  And like, it's the bullshit thing to do.
[00:19:51]  Somebody wants to make video games and you trick them into paying a bunch of money.

=== Playing Along with Musicians (04:32) ===

[00:19:55]  Ugh.
[00:19:56]  You're dicks.
[00:19:57]  Is your friend finally working in video games?
[00:19:59]  No.
[00:19:59]  Oh, no.
[00:20:00]  That never worked out.
[00:20:02]  You know what will work out?
[00:20:04]  These fine products and possibly services that we advertise on our show.
[00:20:09]  Although, because it's randomly slotted in, it might be an ad for another podcast.
[00:20:13]  And then my products and services line will be nonsense.
[00:20:15]  But I don't know, Miles.
[00:20:16]  I don't know what explanation.
[00:20:18]  I don't know what else to do.
[00:20:19]  Well, I'm ready.
[00:20:19]  This is the world we live in.
[00:20:21]  Roll the roulette dice in 2023.
[00:20:29]  Former bachelor star Clayton Eckard found himself at the center of a paternity scandal.
[00:20:34]  The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story.
[00:20:39]  This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth.
[00:20:43]  You doctored this particular test twice, Miss Owens, correct?
[00:20:46]  I doctored the test once.
[00:20:48]  It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case.
[00:20:51]  I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for.
[00:20:55]  Sunlight's the greatest disinfectant.
[00:20:57]  They would uncover a disturbing pattern.
[00:21:00]  Two more men who'd been through the same thing.
[00:21:02]  Greg Gillespie and Michael Marancine.
[00:21:04]  My mind was blown.
[00:21:06]  I'm Stephanie Young.
[00:21:07]  This is Love Trap.
[00:21:09]  Laura, Scottsdale Police.
[00:21:11]  As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.
[00:21:16]  Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Americopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges.
[00:21:22]  This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona.
[00:21:27]  Listen to Love Trapped Podcast on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:21:37]  10-10 shots fired.
[00:21:38]  City Hall building.
[00:21:40]  A silver .40 caliber handgun was recovered at the scene.
[00:21:44]  From iHeart Podcasts and Best Case Studios.
[00:21:48]  This is Rorschach, murder at City Hall.
[00:21:50]  How could this have happened in City Hall?
[00:21:52]  Somebody tell me that.
[00:21:53]  Jeffrey Hood did.
[00:21:54]  July 2003.
[00:21:56]  Councilman James E. Davis arrives at New York City Hall with a guest.
[00:22:01]  Both men are carrying concealed weapons.
[00:22:04]  And in less than 30 minutes, both of them will be dead.
[00:22:13]  Everybody in the chamber's ducks.
[00:22:15]  A shocking public murder.
[00:22:17]  I screamed, get down, get down.
[00:22:19]  Those are shots.
[00:22:19]  Those are shots.
[00:22:20]  Get down.
[00:22:21]  A charismatic politician.
[00:22:22]  You know, he just bent the rules all the time.
[00:22:25]  I still have a weapon.
[00:22:27]  And I could shoot you.
[00:22:30]  And an outsider with a secret.
[00:22:32]  He alleged he was a victim of flat down.
[00:22:35]  That may or may not have been political.
[00:22:36]  That may have been about sex.
[00:22:38]  Listen to Rorschach, murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:22:51]  There's two golden rules that any man should live by.
[00:22:55]  Rule one, never mess with a country girl.
[00:22:59]  If you play stupid games, you get stupid prizes.
[00:23:01]  And rule two, never mess with her friends either.
[00:23:05]  We always say, trust your girlfriends.
[00:23:09]  I'm Anna Sinfield.
[00:23:10]  And in this new season of The Girlfriends...
[00:23:13]  Oh my God, this is the same man.
[00:23:15]  A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist.
[00:23:19]  I felt like I got hit by a truck.
[00:23:21]  I thought, how could this happen to me?
[00:23:23]  The cops didn't seem to care.
[00:23:25]  So they take matters into their own hands.
[00:23:28]  They said, oh, hell no.
[00:23:30]  I vowed I will be his last target.
[00:23:32]  He's going to get what he deserves.
[00:23:37]  Listen to the girlfriends.
[00:23:38]  Trust me, babe.
[00:23:39]  On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:23:49]  Hey, I'm Nora Jones, and I love playing music with people so much that my podcast called Playing Along is back.
[00:23:55]  I sit down with musicians from all musical styles to play songs together in an intimate setting.
[00:23:59]  Every episode's a little different, but it all involves music and conversation with some of my favorite musicians.
[00:24:05]  Over the past two seasons, I've had special guests like Dave Grohl, Leve, Mavis Staples, Remy Wolf, Jeff Tweedy, really too many to name.
[00:24:15]  And this season, I've sat down with Alessia Cara, Sarah McLaughlin, John Legend, and more.
[00:24:20]  Check out my new episode with Josh Grobin.
[00:24:23]  You related to the Phantom at that point.
[00:24:26]  Yeah, it was definitely the Phantom in that.

=== Intimate Music Conversations (15:32) ===

[00:24:28]  That's so funny.
[00:24:29]  Share stay with me each night, each morning.
[00:24:38]  Say you love me.
[00:24:40]  You know I.
[00:24:42]  So come hang out with us in the studio and listen to Playing Along on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:24:52]  We're back.
[00:24:53]  Are we back?
[00:24:54]  We are back.
[00:24:56]  In the USSR.
[00:24:57]  Well, that would be nice.
[00:24:59]  If there's one thing I know about the USSR, it's that they loved podcasting.
[00:25:04]  Big fans.
[00:25:05]  Oh, yeah.
[00:25:05]  Big fans, the podcast.
[00:25:06]  I think they invented it.
[00:25:07]  Probably.
[00:25:08]  Yeah, that sounds right.
[00:25:08]  They invented the pod for sure.
[00:25:10]  Oh, yeah.
[00:25:10]  Because whales are all communists.
[00:25:12]  Vodcasting.
[00:25:13]  Vodcasting.
[00:25:14]  Voodgusting.
[00:25:15]  Yes.
[00:25:15]  Man, did you see that documentary, Icarus?
[00:25:17]  Oh, yeah.
[00:25:18]  Fucking amazing.
[00:25:19]  I love that documentary.
[00:25:19]  And the balls.
[00:25:20]  I love that Russian doctor.
[00:25:22]  The balls.
[00:25:23]  To have saw out a trapdoor in the wall to swap out urine samples.
[00:25:28]  I mean, you know what?
[00:25:29]  Maybe you do deserve it.
[00:25:31]  I have no problem with athletes doping.
[00:25:35]  Yeah, I mean, honestly, I don't get the big deal.
[00:25:37]  Just let them all fucking dope.
[00:25:38]  And let's just see who's the first person and whose heart explodes while trying to get it.
[00:25:42]  Exactly.
[00:25:43]  And that's who loses.
[00:25:44]  Yeah.
[00:25:46]  Or just have like a special version of the Olympics where we do see: look, if you can put the cheat codes on, how far can you take this?
[00:25:54]  The way I think it should work.
[00:25:55]  So I've done, I have a friend that I will occasionally have drinking contests with, and the rule is always whoever can drink the most without vomiting.
[00:26:01]  And so we'll try to like finish like a two-liter keg of beer.
[00:26:05]  Okay.
[00:26:05]  So if you finish first, but you drink so fast that you puke it up, you still lose.
[00:26:09]  That's how drugging yourself in a sporting event should work.
[00:26:12]  If you get away from it for X years, you were smart enough.
[00:26:15]  You know, Lance Armstrong, you know, you're four years clear.
[00:26:18]  Okay, you get to keep your titles.
[00:26:20]  Huh.
[00:26:21]  That's how I feel.
[00:26:22]  Okay.
[00:26:22]  And it should be fine for me to steal garlic from Ralph.
[00:26:26]  I mean, look, you're just upgrading.
[00:26:28]  I'm just not going to pay $3.5 for elephant garlic.
[00:26:30]  It's ludicrous.
[00:26:31]  Okay, look, I can see it in your eyes, man.
[00:26:34]  Yeah, you're not going to pay $3 for that elephant garlic.
[00:26:37]  I'll steal it from the damn farm if I get it.
[00:26:39]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:26:40]  Okay, let's get back to this grift that was not kind-hearted, like Michael.
[00:26:43]  Elephant garlic.
[00:26:44]  Yes.
[00:26:45]  Yeah.
[00:26:45]  Yeah.
[00:26:45]  That's a healthy grift, I feel.
[00:26:48]  So the first major textbook for this Nada University was called Trump 101, The Way to Success.
[00:26:54]  You can still find the book on Amazon.com.
[00:26:56]  It's a little over 200 pages, which seems like a lot to say inherit $700 million from your dad.
[00:27:01]  I found a book list review that describes the chapters.
[00:27:03]  So I'm going to read that to you, Mike.
[00:27:06]  This might teach you enough to start in real estate.
[00:27:08]  Yeah, let me get it.
[00:27:09]  This collection of Trump's wisdom, inspiration, and advice is organized around 20 distinctive motivational themes, including don't waste your life on work you don't love.
[00:27:17]  Okay.
[00:27:18]  Set the bar high.
[00:27:19]  Tough it out.
[00:27:20]  Be persistent.
[00:27:20]  The proof is in the doing.
[00:27:22]  Learn by doing and taking risks.
[00:27:24]  Your gut is your best advisor.
[00:27:26]  Listen to your instincts.
[00:27:27]  Negotiate to win.
[00:27:28]  Use diplomacy.
[00:27:30]  Swim against the tide.
[00:27:31]  The comfort zone can pull you under.
[00:27:33]  Wait for the right pitch.
[00:27:34]  Business success is all about patience and timing.
[00:27:37]  And do more.
[00:27:38]  Always do more.
[00:27:39]  Constantly try to top yourself.
[00:27:41]  I feel like I understand his tweeting strategy better after leaving.
[00:27:44]  Wow.
[00:27:45]  Yeah.
[00:27:45]  Those are such empty, like, yeah, phrases.
[00:27:49]  Do more.
[00:27:50]  Yeah.
[00:27:51]  It's like all those motivational posters from like the 90s.
[00:27:54]  Yeah.
[00:27:54]  That would just be like a hot air balloon.
[00:27:56]  Yeah.
[00:27:56]  And be like, never stop outdoing yourself.
[00:27:59]  Negotiate to win.
[00:28:00]  Higher heights.
[00:28:02]  Yeah.
[00:28:02]  Use diplomacy.
[00:28:03]  And I'm going to guess that that chapter didn't go into much more detail than use diplomacy.
[00:28:07]  Yeah.
[00:28:07]  Yeah.
[00:28:08]  What a guy to get the vice on diploma.
[00:28:10]  End of that sentence is use diplomacy if you're a loser.
[00:28:13]  If you're a loser.
[00:28:14]  And next chapter, balling out of control.
[00:28:17]  Okay, now, Miles, you just did a pretty good Trump, and I know you do a fantastic Australian.
[00:28:22]  Can you do Australian Trump?
[00:28:25]  Oh, you know.
[00:28:27]  It's a bit like this.
[00:28:28]  Sorry.
[00:28:29]  If you're Australian Trump.
[00:28:33]  That might be flying.
[00:28:34]  Speaking of Icarus, flying fire close to the sun.
[00:28:36]  Smoke another blunt, yeah.
[00:28:37]  All right.
[00:28:38]  All right.
[00:28:38]  We'll get another blunt in here.
[00:28:40]  In promotional material for the book, Donald Trump himself explained the value of this weighty tome.
[00:28:45]  Another purpose of this book is to introduce you to Trump University, which grew out of my desire to impart the business knowledge I accumulated over the years and to find a practical, convenient way to teach success.
[00:28:55]  Trump University doesn't just bear my name.
[00:28:57]  I'm actively involved in it.
[00:28:58]  I participated in creating the curricula, and my words, ideas, and image have been woven into the courses we provide.
[00:29:04]  I'm deeply and actively involved in Trump University because I firmly believe in the power of education and its function as an engine of success.
[00:29:11]  I want to help people.
[00:29:12]  And simply put, the Trump University students want to be successful.
[00:29:16]  I'm on their side.
[00:29:18]  Wow.
[00:29:19]  That's, ugh.
[00:29:21]  Again, like, even if for all the amount of words that were in there.
[00:29:24]  Yeah, a lot of them.
[00:29:25]  Yeah.
[00:29:26]  You could really just boil that down to one sentence is, this is good, and I'm involved.
[00:29:31]  Yeah, this is good and I'm involved.
[00:29:32]  Go to school.
[00:29:33]  That's it.
[00:29:34]  Yeah.
[00:29:34]  All that other shit.
[00:29:35]  That's what's so funny is like, it reminds me of me when I used to write essays in high school.
[00:29:39]  Yeah.
[00:29:39]  Or like you're trying to hit that word count.
[00:29:41]  Oh my God.
[00:29:42]  I would fucking have like 90 word sentences.
[00:29:45]  Yeah.
[00:29:45]  You know, just to just say like, Cardinal Richelieu was Louis XIII's greatest advisor or whatever the fuck, whichever Louis that was, the 14th?
[00:29:53]  It was one of the Louis.
[00:29:54]  Yeah.
[00:29:55]  You know, not enough kids named Richelieu anymore.
[00:29:57]  Yeah, well, you know, it's part of the pussification of this country.
[00:30:02]  I know.
[00:30:02]  Name, if you're out there and you've got a child, name it Richelieu.
[00:30:05]  Name Richelieu.
[00:30:06]  Yeah.
[00:30:06]  Yeah.
[00:30:06]  Name it Ricola.
[00:30:08]  Oh, yeah.
[00:30:08]  Those are great mints when you've got a sore throat.
[00:30:10]  Hashtag branded content.
[00:30:11]  Yeah, Ricola.
[00:30:13]  If you want to sponsor this show, we'll find a baby to name.
[00:30:15]  Oh, yeah.
[00:30:16]  Yeah, we can do that for sure.
[00:30:17]  Change my name to Ricola.
[00:30:18]  I think we have that power.
[00:30:19]  Okay.
[00:30:20]  At the outset, Trump University students were promised classes that would be taught by actual business school professors who'd communicate with students through an online bulletin board.
[00:30:27]  So, you know, like a real online university.
[00:30:30]  There would be regular QA sessions where students could ask Mr. Trump for advice on their businesses.
[00:30:35]  So this was billed as a practical business training program where students would receive thoughtful and semi-direct advice from one of the world's most famous businessmen.
[00:30:42]  In the press release for Trump University, Donald Trump claimed that his whole goal with the project was to give back to the world and create, quote, a legacy as an educator.
[00:30:50]  He even promised to hand any profits from his business over to an unspecified charity.
[00:30:55]  An unspecified charity.
[00:30:58]  Well, it's always going to be an unspecified charity.
[00:31:00]  Wow.
[00:31:01]  I'm going to start doing that.
[00:31:02]  That's fucking genius.
[00:31:04]  All of the profits from this show are donated to an unspecified charity.
[00:31:06]  Unspecified charity.
[00:31:08]  Which is me buying a survivalist compound in Oregon.
[00:31:11]  Right.
[00:31:11]  Yeah.
[00:31:11]  That unspecified charity.
[00:31:12]  Well, now it's specific.
[00:31:13]  Of hiding in the.
[00:31:14]  Well, yeah, yeah, I see.
[00:31:15]  You're right.
[00:31:16]  Oh, my God.
[00:31:16]  What a good way to just wiggle your way out of anything.
[00:31:19]  I know.
[00:31:20]  It's amazing.
[00:31:22]  Did you clean up the house?
[00:31:23]  I did some unspecified things.
[00:31:24]  Some unspecified cleaning.
[00:31:25]  Unspecified things.
[00:31:28]  Unspecified shorts.
[00:31:29]  Unspecified.
[00:31:30]  What an unspecified charity.
[00:31:33]  Yo, you should make a t-shirt like that.
[00:31:34]  Cops pull you over.
[00:31:35]  Do you have a license?
[00:31:36]  I have an unspecified license.
[00:31:38]  Unspecified license of sorts.
[00:31:40]  Get the fuck out of sorts.
[00:31:44]  Oh, boy.
[00:31:45]  Oh, yeah.
[00:31:46]  So I didn't even read the last Trump quote about how this isn't about money.
[00:31:50]  Here's Donald again.
[00:31:51]  If I had a choice of making lots of money or imparting lots of knowledge, I think I'd be as happy to impart knowledge as to make money.
[00:31:57]  Get the fuck out of here.
[00:31:59]  Oh, my God.
[00:32:00]  Good for you.
[00:32:01]  He still doesn't actually say that imparting knowledge is more important.
[00:32:04]  Yeah.
[00:32:04]  Like he sets it up that that's how, but then he's like, oh, they're both equal.
[00:32:07]  They're both equal and, you know, whatever.
[00:32:09]  I like money, but I like money.
[00:32:10]  I'll do a little thing.
[00:32:13]  They say knowledge is money.
[00:32:14]  Knowledge is money.
[00:32:15]  That is what they say with Betsy DeVos as the Secretary of Education.
[00:32:20]  Or money is knowledge.
[00:32:21]  Yeah.
[00:32:22]  The ability to access knowledge.
[00:32:23]  Yeah, that's probably more likely.
[00:32:25]  That's probably more accurate.
[00:32:26]  Yeah.
[00:32:26]  Now, in 2005, The Apprentice had, as we just discussed, just finished its first season.
[00:32:30]  It was one of the most popular shows on television for reasons I will never understand.
[00:32:35]  In addition to that, the real estate market was in the midst of an outrageous boom cycle that would later give way to the great crash of 2008.
[00:32:41]  So for a year and change, Trump U existed as a semi-legit seeming adult education program for people interested in dipping their toes into the booming real estate market.
[00:32:50]  So makes sense.
[00:32:52]  But by 2007, the market was starting to look distinctly less boomy and more busty.
[00:32:57]  As the economy started to shift, so did Trump University.
[00:33:00]  Roger Schenck and all the other professional teachers and curriculum designers who'd been hired at the onset of the project were let go.
[00:33:06]  Schenk was told that the school had burnt through the $3 million in funding Donald Trump had pumped into the venture.
[00:33:10]  Schenk later told the Daily Beast, quote, they put a certain amount of money into it and then the money stopped suddenly.
[00:33:16]  I said, what happened?
[00:33:17]  And they said, well, we just don't have any more money and we need to make money quickly in some other way.
[00:33:21]  Oh, that's what you want to hear from a college?
[00:33:27]  Wait.
[00:33:28]  That's what the college told him?
[00:33:30]  Yeah, this is a good idea.
[00:33:30]  They fired him.
[00:33:31]  I'm guessing it's a person at the criteria.
[00:33:33]  Yeah, but like, we need money really fast, and it ain't going to be like this.
[00:33:37]  You're great at this, but now we got to make more money.
[00:33:40]  So we're going to find some other way to do it in our college.
[00:33:43]  Can't wait to know what that plan was.
[00:33:45]  Oh, it's going to be fun.
[00:33:46]  It's going to be fun.
[00:33:47]  So Ronald Schackenberg was a sales manager at Trump University from late 2006 to 2007.
[00:33:53]  He later recalled this shift in a deposition that he made during one of the numerous lawsuits as a result of this fake college.
[00:34:00]  Quote, this is Schackenberg.
[00:34:01]  Around February 2007, the direction of Trump University's business drastically changed to live events and seminars driven by high-pressure front-end salesmen, inexperienced in real estate, making high-pressure sales.
[00:34:12]  So these live events were built as workshops and learning courses, but they were really just excuses to upsell students on more expensive training.
[00:34:19]  Rather than using curriculum designed by actual experts in anything, Trump U brought in a guy named Mark Dove.
[00:34:24]  Schackenberg described him as a guy who, quote, essentially owns that front-end high-pressure speaker scam world, provided speakers, instructors, mentors, and salespeople to Trump University.
[00:34:34]  And these people brought with them their own programs, which turned into Trump University programs.
[00:34:38]  I was very uncomfortable with this new direction of business as I believed it to be very unethical.
[00:34:42]  So there were good people involved at the beginning.
[00:34:45]  They were like, all right, whatever.
[00:34:46]  Yeah, because the apprentice.
[00:34:48]  They probably don't fully understand the kind of scam artist that the president is.
[00:34:53]  No, nobody.
[00:34:54]  I mean, 2005.
[00:34:55]  Yeah.
[00:34:55]  Really different time.
[00:34:56]  No, it's the apprentice guy.
[00:34:57]  Sure, yeah, great.
[00:34:58]  He's popular on TV.
[00:34:59]  Yeah.
[00:34:59]  Maybe we'll check.
[00:35:00]  We'll teach people some real stuff.
[00:35:02]  And then, so the Mark Dove guy, they said he owns like just sort of like the same people who probably do like timeshare sales.
[00:35:09]  The exact same people.
[00:35:10]  Come here, and then we're going to fucking lock you in the room.
[00:35:12]  So they switch over to live events, and these live events are administrated by people who are billed as teachers, but who are actually sales.
[00:35:18]  They're just closers.
[00:35:19]  Yeah, they're just closers.
[00:35:20]  Exactly.
[00:35:21]  That must have been so fun.
[00:35:22]  Yeah, it must have been great.
[00:35:24]  They made a lot of money.
[00:35:25]  He's so full of shit.
[00:35:26]  And just go up there with all this confidence.
[00:35:28]  Like, I can't wait for you guys to be flying on your own jets.
[00:35:32]  Look at this Rolex.
[00:35:33]  I'm going to give someone this Rolex by the end of tonight.
[00:35:36]  Because guess what?
[00:35:37]  By tomorrow morning, I'm going to have enough for three more of these.
[00:35:40]  I don't know if you could see, Miles, but I just voted for you to be president.
[00:35:43]  Yeah.
[00:35:43]  Oh, my God.
[00:35:45]  I couldn't stop myself.
[00:35:46]  I'm going to start a new conman podcast where I'm selling people dreams.
[00:35:50]  Yeah.
[00:35:50]  I mean, all podcasts are a con if they're successful.
[00:35:53]  That's true.
[00:35:54]  I mean, people don't even know.
[00:35:55]  There's not even a guy named Stalin.
[00:35:56]  Oh.
[00:35:57]  Yeah, I made that up for this men's podcast.
[00:35:59]  You, I'm telling you.
[00:36:01]  Alex Jones, just me in a wig.
[00:36:03]  Alex Jones?
[00:36:04]  My friend, Alex Jones.
[00:36:07]  So, this is around the time, 2007, that Stephen Gilpin, the author of that book, got hired by the university.
[00:36:13]  He had a lot of experience in real estate, and his business had fallen on hard times as the market started to collapse.
[00:36:18]  They hired him initially to be a one-man phone line for Trump U students who had questions about real estate matters.
[00:36:24]  Gilpin recalled in his book being surprised to learn that nobody else involved in the management or operations of Trump University had any kind of background in real estate.
[00:36:31]  It was a real estate school run by people who had never done real estate.
[00:36:36]  Where'd you work?
[00:36:38]  Just for Hilton.
[00:36:39]  Trump Foundation.
[00:36:40]  It was the Trump Foundation.
[00:36:41]  Oh, yeah.
[00:36:42]  Trump Foundation.
[00:36:43]  Okay.
[00:36:44]  Anything else?
[00:36:44]  Nah.
[00:36:45]  No.
[00:36:45]  No.
[00:36:46]  I've just been bilking people out of money for a while.
[00:36:48]  Yeah.
[00:36:48]  Okay.
[00:36:50]  Now, during this whole time, Trump University ads continued to brag in official promotional material that all the instructors at these live events were real estate experts hand-picked by Donald Trump.
[00:36:59]  The Attorney General of New York State later disputed this in a filing.
[00:37:02]  Quote, in fact, respondents lacked substantiation for the claims that their instructors and mentors were successful real estate entrepreneurs.
[00:37:09]  Not a single one was handpicked by Donald Trump.
[00:37:11]  Many came to Trump University from jobs having little to do with real estate investments, and some came to Trump University shortly after their real estate investing caused them to go into bankruptcy.
[00:37:22]  Wow.
[00:37:23]  Failed real estate investors.
[00:37:24]  Yeah, people who don't know anything about real estate.
[00:37:27]  And if they do, they've just bankrupted themselves.
[00:37:30]  Bankrupted themselves and like, well, I guess I'll teach people how to do this.
[00:37:34]  Oh, that's the American dream, baby.
[00:37:37]  Just keep failing on up.
[00:37:38]  God, this is such a great country.
[00:37:40]  We really, we really nailed a lot.
[00:37:42]  Man.
[00:37:42]  Just got to have the balls.
[00:37:44]  You know, that's all.
[00:37:45]  If you just lie for 70 straight years and you're a tall white guy.
[00:37:51]  Sometimes not, but always if you're a tall white guy, there's no limit to what you can achieve.
[00:37:56]  Oh, no.
[00:37:57]  No.
[00:37:57]  No.
[00:37:58]  You could even one day be the president of the United States.
[00:38:01]  You could be.
[00:38:01]  You could be.
[00:38:02]  That's what I'm going to do after I shift next year and start writing for the Daily Wire.
[00:38:07]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:38:08]  Because you want to have that like, you want to have that arc where you're like, oh, no, I used to be a leftist.
[00:38:13]  I used to be all the ideas.
[00:38:15]  Yeah, you could.
[00:38:16]  And you could probably primary Trump.
[00:38:18]  Oh, yeah.
[00:38:18]  Well, I won't be quite old enough.
[00:38:20]  Oh.
[00:38:21]  Yeah, he'll be out of office by that time.
[00:38:23]  We can doctor Support.
[00:38:24]  I'll primary President Ann Coulter from the right.
[00:38:27]  From the right.
[00:38:29]  It'll be the Evans Ingram ticket.
[00:38:32]  Yeah, the Evans Ingram ticket.
[00:38:33]  Jesus Christ.
[00:38:37]  Okay.
[00:38:38]  So there's a video produced around this time, 2007, called Welcome to Trump University.
[00:38:43]  I want to play this video to you, Miles, and I want you, the listener, to hear it because that way you'll get an idea of how this was sold to prospective clients.
[00:38:49]  Now, I do want to say up front, this is the only audio of Trump we're going to have in the episode.
[00:38:53]  I had to have a little bit of how he presented this, but we all hear him enough.
[00:38:57]  Right.
[00:38:57]  Yeah.
[00:38:58]  So this is all you're going to have to listen to.
[00:39:00]  This is a promo video.
[00:39:01]  Yeah.
[00:39:11]  At Trump University, we teach success.
[00:39:13]  That's what it's all about.
[00:39:15]  Success.
[00:39:16]  It's going to happen to you.
[00:39:18]  Donald Trump is without question the world's most famous businessman.
[00:39:22]  As a real estate developer, he has reshaped the New York skyline with some of that great city's most prestigious and elegant buildings.
[00:39:30]  Great line.
[00:39:31]  Donald Trump brings his years of experience to the world of business education with the launch of Trump University.
[00:39:40]  If you're going to achieve anything, you have to take action.
[00:39:43]  And action is what Trump University is all about.
[00:39:57]  All right, that's about enough of that.
[00:39:58]  God, what?

=== Selling the Dream Big (05:02) ===

[00:40:00]  It was.
[00:40:02]  I mean, you know, it was so bad.
[00:40:05]  Yeah.
[00:40:05]  I really feel bad for people who don't have the media savvy to watch something like that.
[00:40:10]  And I mean, I go, oh, this stinks like shit.
[00:40:13]  Now, I think some of that is that, you know, this was 14 years ago.
[00:40:17]  Yeah, but we were all a little less savvy about that.
[00:40:19]  Oh, hell no.
[00:40:20]  But still, that's bad.
[00:40:21]  That fucking, the voiceover was from like a B-action movie from the 80s.
[00:40:25]  Yeah, just as someone like you who reads stuff in the microphones for a living.
[00:40:30]  That was really bad voice acting.
[00:40:31]  But also just like the tone of his voice.
[00:40:34]  It was so dated.
[00:40:35]  Yeah.
[00:40:35]  Like that style of voice was like, that's such a vigil.
[00:40:39]  Yeah.
[00:40:40]  And it was like, Dean Marciano is a disgrace detective.
[00:40:44]  His family was killed.
[00:40:46]  Like that's the kind of weird tone it was.
[00:40:48]  And then it was all like not even stock video, stock footage with like that they just animated to move like Ken Burns effect.
[00:40:56]  And they're like, I guess that's fine.
[00:40:57]  And then Trump University was just a graphic of a door.
[00:41:01]  Yeah.
[00:41:02]  It wasn't even like a building.
[00:41:06]  I do love that like kind of ravey music that kicked on with Donald Trump started.
[00:41:10]  We all started dancing to it a little bit.
[00:41:11]  It was bizarre.
[00:41:13]  I just, I've always wondered what it would be like to run into Donald Trump at like a dance club in Berlin.
[00:41:17]  And that's the closest I'm ever going to come to knowing.
[00:41:19]  Yeah, or he's sitting on the corner of a desk.
[00:41:22]  Make it look like he was in that.
[00:41:23]  Sipping a club.
[00:41:24]  Trump University.
[00:41:25]  Action.
[00:41:25]  What did he say?
[00:41:26]  Trump University is what it takes to be successful.
[00:41:29]  And Trump University is all about action.
[00:41:31]  Again, what does that even mean?
[00:41:33]  What does that even mean?
[00:41:34]  The action of giving me your credit card.
[00:41:36]  Yeah, sure.
[00:41:38]  Okay.
[00:41:38]  So the first Trump University live events took place in Florida in May of 2007.
[00:41:43]  The second one took place in Los Angeles around a month later.
[00:41:46]  That is where you'd want to start a scam, Florida, then LA.
[00:41:48]  Yeah.
[00:41:48]  Sensible so far.
[00:41:50]  Each of these live events had about 500 attendees.
[00:41:53]  The events were free, but attendees were encouraged to sign up for longer paid workshops.
[00:41:58]  I see.
[00:42:00]  That were happening that day?
[00:42:01]  No, no, no.
[00:42:02]  That happened later.
[00:42:03]  Okay, so you'd come.
[00:42:04]  Okay, so that was just to be like, oh, yeah, yeah, come.
[00:42:06]  We'll tell you about it.
[00:42:08]  We'll teach you about real estate for free.
[00:42:10]  Right.
[00:42:11]  And we'll just tell you just enough vague half sentences that you'll...
[00:42:14]  You want to learn a little more.
[00:42:15]  The real meat is to take these longer seminals.
[00:42:19]  Wait till you hear about the cost of these.
[00:42:21]  I got to ask up front, how much do you think people are spending on these seminars?
[00:42:25]  So, and this is what, 2000.
[00:42:27]  2005.
[00:42:28]  2005?
[00:42:28]  Well, 2007.
[00:42:30]  Seven.
[00:42:30]  Oh, people didn't know any better.
[00:42:32]  And they're just, oh, man, maybe like two grand.
[00:42:36]  Okay, okay.
[00:42:37]  I'm going to just read a little passage from Stephen Gilpin.
[00:42:40]  Okay.
[00:42:41]  The new business model was designed to operate in two stages.
[00:42:44]  First, offering aspiring real estate magnates a free 90-minute profit-from real estate orientation, also known as the preview, where they'd be pressured to pay for the second stage, a three-day profit-from-real estate workshop.
[00:42:54]  During the workshop, they'd be enticed and cajoled into buying one of the Trump Elite packages, which were offered at three price points.
[00:43:00]  $9,995 bronze, $19,495 silver, and then the Whopper at $34,995.
[00:43:10]  I want to drink it.
[00:43:11]  Try Gold Elite.
[00:43:12]  It didn't stop there.
[00:43:13]  During the Gold Elite program, there was constant pressure to purchase other Trump University affiliate programs and products, varying in price from $495 to $9,995.
[00:43:22]  As a result, students could ultimately spend upwards of $70,000.
[00:43:26]  Oh, wait, so the first thing is free.
[00:43:31]  First thing is free.
[00:43:32]  To get you to the second thing, which is only to get you to the...
[00:43:35]  So how much is the second thing?
[00:43:36]  It's like $1,500.
[00:43:37]  Sometimes $1,000.
[00:43:38]  Some people pay like $500.
[00:43:40]  It was flexible a little bit, but yeah.
[00:43:41]  Right, whatever it is to get you there because they were really going to rip your head off the next one.
[00:43:45]  $35,000.
[00:43:47]  I mean, if you're a fucking loser, you can get the bronze for $10,000.
[00:43:51]  And if you're really trying to, oh my, and I really want to see how they're just getting put together in there.
[00:43:57]  Oh, yeah.
[00:43:57]  We're going to get into their promotional material.
[00:43:59]  Or not promotional, their sales material in a little bit here.
[00:44:01]  So the first live events were such a hit that Trump University almost immediately jettisoned all of its actual classes.
[00:44:06]  Many of the course books continued to be sold on Amazon, and in fact, you can buy some today.
[00:44:10]  But the study courses were dropped and the website stopped being updated.
[00:44:13]  The purpose of Trump University from here on out was to sucker rubes into free investment seminars to try and get them to pay outrageous sums of money for Trump Gold Elite packages.
[00:44:22]  Now, what are the pat what?
[00:44:24]  Do you know what's in the package?
[00:44:25]  Yeah, so if you're paying $35,000, you're doing like a series, like a three-day series of workshops.
[00:44:31]  You're getting access to what they bill as like this like secret listing of distressed properties that you can buy that other people don't have access to.
[00:44:39]  You get access to this hotline and you get three days with a mentor who flies in to help you like understand your local real estate market and start setting up deals.
[00:44:47]  Okay.
[00:44:48]  They also promise that they'll teach you how to do stuff like get your credit rating increased, presumably so that you can buy property.
[00:44:54]  And they also promise you sources of hard money where you won't have to put your own money up.
[00:44:59]  We'll hook you up with our secret list of people who are willing to like invest in your and put up money in your life.

=== Secret Property Listings (03:15) ===

[00:45:03]  To front it for you?
[00:45:04]  Yeah.
[00:45:05]  What?
[00:45:05]  So that's what they're selling people.
[00:45:07]  That's what they're telling people is what you get.
[00:45:09]  And I'm sure what they got was something that's different.
[00:45:12]  Yeah.
[00:45:12]  And what our listeners are going to get now is some ads.
[00:45:16]  Ooh.
[00:45:21]  In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckard found himself at the center of a paternity scandal.
[00:45:27]  The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story.
[00:45:33]  This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth.
[00:45:36]  You doctored this particular test twice, Miss Owens, correct?
[00:45:40]  I doctored the test once.
[00:45:41]  It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case.
[00:45:44]  I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for.
[00:45:48]  Sunlight's the greatest disinfectant.
[00:45:51]  They would uncover a disturbing pattern.
[00:45:53]  Two more men who'd been through the same thing.
[00:45:55]  Greg Gillespie and Michael Marancini.
[00:45:57]  My mind was blown.
[00:45:59]  I'm Stephanie Young.
[00:46:01]  This is Love Trap.
[00:46:03]  Laura, Scottsdale Police.
[00:46:05]  As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.
[00:46:09]  Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Americopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges.
[00:46:16]  This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona.
[00:46:20]  Listen to the Love Trapped podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:46:30]  10-10 shots five, City Hall building.
[00:46:33]  A silver .40 caliber handgun was recovered at the scene.
[00:46:38]  From iHeart Podcasts and Best Case Studios, this is Rorschach, murder at City Hall.
[00:46:44]  How could this have happened in City Hall?
[00:46:45]  Somebody tell me that, Jeffrey Hood did.
[00:46:48]  July 2003, Councilman James E. Davis arrives at New York City Hall with a guest.
[00:46:54]  Both men are carrying concealed weapons.
[00:46:57]  And in less than 30 minutes, both of them will be dead.
[00:47:06]  Everybody in the chamber's docks.
[00:47:09]  A shocking public murder.
[00:47:10]  I scream, get down, get down.
[00:47:12]  Those are shots.
[00:47:13]  Those are shots.
[00:47:14]  Get down.
[00:47:14]  A charismatic politician.
[00:47:16]  You know, he just bent the rules all the time, man.
[00:47:18]  I still have a weapon.
[00:47:20]  And I could shoot you.
[00:47:23]  And an outsider with a secret.
[00:47:25]  He alleged he was a victim of flat down.
[00:47:28]  That may or may not have been political.
[00:47:30]  That may have been about sex.
[00:47:32]  Listen to Rorschach, murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:47:45]  There's two golden rules that any man should live by.
[00:47:49]  Rule one, never mess with a country girl.
[00:47:52]  If you play stupid games, you get stupid prizes.
[00:47:55]  And rule two, never mess with her friends either.
[00:47:58]  We always say, trust your girlfriends.
[00:48:02]  I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of The Girlfriends...
[00:48:06]  Oh my God, this is the same man.
[00:48:08]  A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist.
[00:48:13]  I felt like I got hit by a truck.
[00:48:15]  I thought, how could this happen to me?
[00:48:17]  The cops didn't seem to care.

=== Dating a Prolific Con Artist (14:41) ===

[00:48:19]  So they take matters into their own hands.
[00:48:22]  I said, oh, hell no.
[00:48:23]  I vowed I will be his last target.
[00:48:26]  He's going to get what he deserves.
[00:48:30]  Listen to the girlfriends.
[00:48:32]  Trust me, babe.
[00:48:33]  On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:48:43]  I'm Lori Siegel, and on Mostly Human, I go beyond the headlines with the people building our future.
[00:48:48]  This week, an interview with one of the most influential figures in Silicon Valley, OpenAI CEO Sam Altman.
[00:48:55]  I think society is going to decide that creators of AI products bear a tremendous amount of responsibility to products we put out in the world.
[00:49:02]  From power to parenthood.
[00:49:04]  Kids, teenagers, I think they will need a lot of guardrails around AI.
[00:49:07]  This is such a powerful and such a new thing.
[00:49:09]  From addiction to acceleration.
[00:49:12]  The world we live in is a competitive world, and I don't think that's going to stop.
[00:49:14]  Even if you did a lot of redistribution, you know, we have a deep desire to excel and be competitive and gain status and be useful to others.
[00:49:23]  And it's a multiplayer game.
[00:49:25]  What does the man who has extraordinary influence over our lives have to say about the weight of that responsibility?
[00:49:32]  Find out on Mostly Human.
[00:49:33]  My highest order bit is to not destroy the world of AI.
[00:49:36]  Listen to Mostly Human on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
[00:49:48]  And we're back talking about Trump U.
[00:49:51]  Oh, True Niversity.
[00:49:53]  I'm glad to do this, you know, with another fellow Trump you alumna.
[00:49:57]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:49:58]  Spent a lot of money.
[00:50:00]  What a singular alumnus.
[00:50:01]  Alumno.
[00:50:03]  Whatever.
[00:50:03]  Alumni.
[00:50:04]  The two of us together.
[00:50:05]  Alumni.
[00:50:06]  Two of us together.
[00:50:06]  Are you going to the reunion?
[00:50:08]  Oh, yeah.
[00:50:08]  Yeah.
[00:50:10]  It's...
[00:50:11]  Well, I forget where it is.
[00:50:12]  I think the Queen Mary.
[00:50:13]  Oh, the Queen Mary.
[00:50:14]  Yeah.
[00:50:16]  I think it's going to be fun.
[00:50:17]  It's going to be a great time.
[00:50:18]  Although I heard it's not an open bar.
[00:50:20]  Oh, that's a shame.
[00:50:22]  But it's fine.
[00:50:22]  I love that Trump vodka.
[00:50:24]  Yeah.
[00:50:24]  Oh.
[00:50:24]  Oh, man.
[00:50:25]  Made from the finest old potatoes of all of the liquor to brand after yourself.
[00:50:32]  Yeah, Trump vodka.
[00:50:33]  Only Dan Aykroyd's been able to get away with that.
[00:50:36]  Yeah, well, hey, people like to drink out of a skull.
[00:50:38]  People like to drink out of a skull.
[00:50:40]  People like to drink out of a skull more than they like to drink out of a tower.
[00:50:42]  Oh, yeah.
[00:50:43]  That's the lesson of the world.
[00:50:44]  Is that the bottle for?
[00:50:45]  Yeah, it's like it's shaped like one of his towers, I think.
[00:50:48]  Get it together.
[00:50:48]  Well, it didn't work out.
[00:50:50]  But it's okay.
[00:50:50]  I think he's doing all right now.
[00:50:52]  Yeah, we'll see.
[00:50:53]  We'll see.
[00:50:55]  Now, during this whole time, The Apprentice continued to air, and Trump's personal brand continued to rise among people who assume anyone wearing a suit on TV is a successful businessman.
[00:51:03]  According to the New York Attorney General, quote, Trump University speakers repeatedly insinuated that Donald Trump would appear at the three-day seminar, claiming that he is going to be in town and often drops by and might show up or had just left, or baited students with the promise of a surprise or a special guest speaker.
[00:51:19]  As students later discovered, these claims were untrue.
[00:51:21]  Rather than being photographed with Donald Trump, they were offered the chance to have photos taken with a life-size photo of Donald Trump.
[00:51:27]  Oh, I remember this thing.
[00:51:29]  Yeah, like one of those great.
[00:51:30]  Or it was like a cutout, right?
[00:51:31]  Basically.
[00:51:31]  Yeah, it was just a cutout of Trump that you got.
[00:51:33]  I love that kind of shit.
[00:51:35]  Oh, you just missed him.
[00:51:37]  He was just in here, and he wanted to tell you guys.
[00:51:40]  He told me personally to tell you guys that what you are doing is going to change your lives.
[00:51:48]  He's going to be sick that he missed you guys.
[00:51:50]  He's going to be so bummed out.
[00:51:51]  He is so bummed out.
[00:51:53]  Anyway, if you just sign up for the $35 package.
[00:51:56]  Mark, let me talk to you.
[00:51:56]  You're fucking check-bounced.
[00:51:58]  You fucker going to club the shit out of you.
[00:52:00]  Free knowledge, asshole.
[00:52:03]  Trump University was, of course, deeply mixed up with the Trump Foundation, since that's sort of how the now president referred to run all of his businesses.
[00:52:10]  Every check the business issued was signed by either Donald or one of his kids.
[00:52:14]  Donald didn't have much, if anything, to say about the curriculum, such as it was, but he approved every single line of ad copy written about the business, and he testified to this in court.
[00:52:23]  Like, I approved all of the ads, all of the promotional material.
[00:52:26]  What an idiot.
[00:52:27]  That's the only thing he did.
[00:52:29]  And what were those ads like?
[00:52:30]  Well, I found a couple, and we'll put them up on our site behindthebastards.com.
[00:52:36]  One of them features Donald Trump looking like Donald Trump in a suit with a big quote above a bunch of small text.
[00:52:41]  And the big quote says, If you're not a millionaire by December 2008, you didn't attend my foreclosure workshop.
[00:52:46]  Oh.
[00:52:48]  Another has the Trump University logo at the top, which features like a lion-like rearing.
[00:52:53]  Yeah.
[00:52:53]  Like a design of a lion rearing, like he's a fucking British nobleman.
[00:52:56]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:52:57]  And then it says, Unheard of real estate market factors have created a all caps bold, perfect storm of profit opportunity.
[00:53:04]  Free introductory class.
[00:53:06]  Reserve your seat now.
[00:53:07]  Attend this exciting introductory class and learn how you can profit, all caps, from the biggest real estate cash explosion in decades.
[00:53:14]  Do you have like old ads from like snake oil salesmen from like the like the Wild West?
[00:53:21]  Because I feel like those ads essentially read, like have this same kind of presentation and enthusiasm.
[00:53:28]  Same sort of capitalization.
[00:53:29]  Of like, you'll never believe this thing from the Orient.
[00:53:32]  It definitely looks like some of the bottles I've seen of like children's medicinal heroin.
[00:53:36]  Right.
[00:53:36]  Like amazing tonic.
[00:53:37]  Close the jip.
[00:53:38]  Yeah.
[00:53:39]  Wow.
[00:53:40]  Amazing.
[00:53:41]  The perfect storm for you to profit.
[00:53:43]  Yeah.
[00:53:44]  Now, when we talk about cons like this, there's always a risk of like coming down too hard on the people who fell for the scam.
[00:53:49]  That's something I want to try to avoid because it is my firm belief that just about everyone has something they will fall for in the same way these people fell for Trump University.
[00:53:56]  Gilpin does a good job of sort of standing up for these people in his book, which is one reason that I have some respect for him.
[00:54:02]  He's not mean about these people.
[00:54:05]  They aren't dumb folks.
[00:54:06]  Most of them were like nearing retirement age and spent years as like plumbers or like one of them worked for like an aeronautics company and stuff.
[00:54:14]  They just didn't know anything about real estate.
[00:54:16]  Right, and they've saved up like a good amount of nest egg money and they can just piss it away at this thing.
[00:54:22]  Yeah, they want to try it out.
[00:54:23]  They want to like make more money for retirement or something like that.
[00:54:26]  And Donald Trump is the most famous person they know in real estate because they don't know anything about real estate.
[00:54:31]  Yeah.
[00:54:32]  Yeah.
[00:54:33]  Vanity Fair did a great job of collecting several of these people's stories.
[00:54:36]  I'd like to read an excerpt from their article.
[00:54:38]  It starts with the tale of June Harris from White Plains, New York.
[00:54:41]  She took a Trump real estate course and found it valuable, so she signed up for a free session in June 2009 after seeing a newspaper ad.
[00:54:49]  Quote: Participants were told to keep $1,000 in their pockets at all times as a confidence builder for wealth.
[00:54:55]  Harris signed up for the three-day seminar, which cost her $747.50.
[00:54:59]  She spent the weekend of June 19th at the seminar where she was encouraged to call her credit card company and increase her line of credit.
[00:55:05]  They said that we should invest in property without ever touching our own assets, she wrote in a September 2012 affidavit.
[00:55:11]  The instructor said if we surmounted the fear of losing money, then we would actually make money.
[00:55:15]  She was then encouraged to sign up for the Trump Gold mentorship program at a cost of $35,000, described as a year-long group of seminars and private consultations with Trump instructors.
[00:55:25]  When Harris declined, the agent was very upset and quickly hung up on the phone with me.
[00:55:29]  She wrote in her affidavit.
[00:55:30]  Oh, yeah.
[00:55:32]  Can you?
[00:55:32]  Oh.
[00:55:34]  At least she didn't get scammed out of the 35.
[00:55:37]  I know, but I just like, this person was probably being so terrible on the phone, too.
[00:55:41]  She's like, I don't know.
[00:55:42]  It's just a lot of money.
[00:55:43]  Come on, you want to be poor all your life.
[00:55:45]  Yes, you want to be poor?
[00:55:46]  Come on, get it fucking together.
[00:55:48]  You don't want what Donald Trump's offering you?
[00:55:49]  You're not grateful?
[00:55:50]  Oh, okay.
[00:55:51]  So you're an idiot.
[00:55:53]  Yeah.
[00:55:53]  Okay, that's fine.
[00:55:54]  Then be a little bit.
[00:55:55]  If you're a dumbass, then don't take up our time on our phone line.
[00:55:57]  Well, I don't think.
[00:55:58]  Just shut the fuck up.
[00:55:59]  Just click.
[00:55:59]  Just a click.
[00:56:00]  Oh, my God.
[00:56:01]  Trump University.
[00:56:03]  So one of the things that was advertised about these courses was that students would be able to learn how to increase their credit score and boost their credit limits, presumably so that they could again buy properties to flip.
[00:56:12]  Trump U employees did coach students through how to get their credit limits increased, largely through lying.
[00:56:17]  Students were taught to list their expected income as a result of the work in real estate they hadn't done yet.
[00:56:22]  They were told to tell their banks that finding the documentation to prove any of this would be too hard since they needed the limits increased now.
[00:56:28]  Somehow, this often worked because credit card companies and banks are grifters too.
[00:56:33]  Yeah, they're like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:56:34]  Okay.
[00:56:35]  Fuck it.
[00:56:35]  We own you.
[00:56:36]  Yeah.
[00:56:36]  Fine.
[00:56:37]  We'll get the money either way.
[00:56:38]  It was basically saying, fake it to you, make it in the sense that, like, oh, well, my projected income, and then they just write their own.
[00:56:45]  You're going to be a millionaire.
[00:56:46]  That's your projected income.
[00:56:48]  I'm thinking three to four million a year.
[00:56:50]  Yeah, three to four million a year.
[00:56:51]  Seems about right.
[00:56:52]  Seems about right.
[00:56:52]  Yeah, net.
[00:56:53]  Yeah.
[00:56:54]  Based on my experience cleaning my apartment, yeah, I think I can make that much in real estate.
[00:56:58]  Yeah, three to, yeah, that's based on what I've been reading you.
[00:57:00]  Yeah, that seems about right.
[00:57:01]  Okay.
[00:57:02]  Now, the credit increases were actually important because they were basically the only way normal people could hope to put together the $20,000 to $35,000 needed to pay for gold and silver level packages.
[00:57:12]  So that this didn't seem crazy, Trump U employees would point to the American higher education system.
[00:57:18]  University is expensive after all.
[00:57:20]  According to Time, quote, the teachers were always to be called faculty.
[00:57:23]  A crest that looked like it was borrowed from Harvard or Yale was embedded in the logo.
[00:57:27]  An admissions department was listed on the website.
[00:57:30]  The marketing guidelines had sections called catchphrases, buzzwords, and tone that encouraged the use of language such as elitist, Ivy League, and think of Trump University as a real university with a real admissions process, i.e., not everyone who applies is accepted.
[00:57:44]  Now, Gilpin points out that Trump did this too in interviews and speeches where he had to make the case that his fake university was worth the money.
[00:57:50]  Quote, Donald Trump often implied that Trump University somehow inhabited the same intellectual universe as Harvard University.
[00:57:57]  In terms of cost, he was not far off.
[00:57:58]  According to the Harvard website, the total 2015 to 16 cost of tuition at Harvard College without financial aid was $45,278, actually less than the so-called retail value of the Trump Gold Elite package.
[00:58:11]  Because they said that the $35,000 package was worth $46,000.
[00:58:15]  Oh, wow.
[00:58:15]  Because of all the savings.
[00:58:16]  Because of all the savings.
[00:58:17]  Hey, I'm taking a bath on this, man.
[00:58:19]  I'm taking a bath on this.
[00:58:20]  I'm fucking.
[00:58:21]  This is costing Donald Trump money.
[00:58:23]  Honestly, you know, if all you guys sign up, and I hate to say this, if all of you guys sign up for the gold package, I'm going to be totally upside down on this thing.
[00:58:29]  Yeah.
[00:58:29]  I'm going to be deep in the red.
[00:58:31]  But you know what?
[00:58:32]  Just to know that you guys are going to be successful, I'm willing to take that loss.
[00:58:36]  Wow.
[00:58:37]  It's like I'm there.
[00:58:39]  It's like I'm there.
[00:58:40]  I wish we could get a bunch of materials and we should just have them.
[00:58:44]  Can we just do an episode where we run the Trump U curriculum?
[00:58:49]  I have the 135-page Trump University playbook.
[00:58:52]  You know why it's public domain?
[00:58:54]  Because of the loss.
[00:58:55]  Because of the lawsuit.
[00:58:57]  Yeah, I would love to just read those, like what the style was and just hear recordings and pressure people.
[00:59:04]  Oh, okay, great.
[00:59:04]  Yeah, we're going to.
[00:59:05]  Some of that.
[00:59:06]  Maybe not as much as I should have included.
[00:59:08]  Again, these poor people too to know that they were sort of like, the secret to making money is you need to call your bank right now and get that credit extended because you need to pay for this.
[00:59:18]  You need to pay $35,000 to me because I'm selling you air.
[00:59:22]  Oh, it's amazing.
[00:59:24]  It really is.
[00:59:25]  Now, like most big businesses, Trump University had a company playbook, which we just talked about, a 130-some-page document that is now on my iPad next to five biographies of Hitler.
[00:59:33]  It included everything from how far ahead of time employees should show up before a seminar to what they should wear in order to make the company look good.
[00:59:40]  It also included a lot of advice on how speakers could convince someone to drop $35,000 on this bullshit.
[00:59:46]  Thanks to the shameful mountain of lawsuits this fake school inspired, we have access to this wonderful document.
[00:59:51]  Politico actually has it available as a PDF, so you can download it right now.
[00:59:54]  Oh, yeah, yeah.
[00:59:56]  We'll put the link up there.
[00:59:57]  Most of it's boring, but the part that talked about how to sell the workshops to reticent students is really interesting to me, especially since one of the few things we know that Donald Trump actually did for Trump University was approve the playbook.
[01:00:09]  Right.
[01:00:10]  This is all Trump and possibly Trump dictated in some cases.
[01:00:12]  Do you think that's the case?
[01:00:14]  Or like, because I can't imagine him putting work into anything.
[01:00:17]  That someone else did it and he goes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:00:20]  You know, but one thing that's consistent, even when you hear about like Roger Stone and he working on those racist ads against the Mohawk tribe to try to like get their casinos banned, he was noted as specifically approving the ads.
[01:00:31]  I think that might just be something he really does care about.
[01:00:33]  Just approving ad copy.
[01:00:35]  Yeah, ad copy and marketing material.
[01:00:38]  Marketing material.
[01:00:38]  Because I mean, that's what he's good at.
[01:00:40]  Right.
[01:00:40]  And I guess in a way, that's the written version of his identity being out there, too.
[01:00:45]  So he wants to be careful with it, I guess.
[01:00:48]  I would not surprise if he put in legitimate work just to make sure he's not going to be able to do that.
[01:00:51]  I also, though.
[01:00:52]  You wouldn't be surprised if he goes, oh, yeah, it's fine.
[01:00:55]  Okay, great.
[01:00:55]  Yeah.
[01:00:55]  Yeah, if he's just like, yeah, it's whatever.
[01:00:57]  Oh, yeah.
[01:00:58]  Because he would also brag.
[01:00:59]  He's like, yeah, I did all the work.
[01:01:00]  I actually typed everything with a typewriter.
[01:01:03]  With a typewriter.
[01:01:04]  And I didn't even look at my fingers.
[01:01:05]  Didn't look at my thingies.
[01:01:07]  Did the homero.
[01:01:08]  Oh, man.
[01:01:09]  There you go.
[01:01:13]  I don't know if he's ever typed.
[01:01:16]  You know, he has, but he's like for the camera, and he just uses index fingers.
[01:01:20]  Yeah, he's a hunting pecker for sure.
[01:01:22]  And he only uses one fucking hand.
[01:01:25]  Shots fired, Niles.
[01:01:26]  Sorry.
[01:01:27]  So, here's how the Trump University playbook advises an instructor on how to deal with a student who keeps asking inconvenient questions.
[01:01:34]  Someone who has too many questions for the sales teacher.
[01:01:36]  I'm surprised there wasn't some derogatory nickname in the manual.
[01:01:39]  It's like, if you get one of these.
[01:01:40]  It gets kind of mean, actually.
[01:01:42]  Okay.
[01:01:43]  Okay.
[01:01:43]  So here's the handbook instructing the teacher.
[01:01:46]  Right.
[01:01:47]  The more concerns you have to resolve, the more power you have given the other person.
[01:01:50]  And they will begin to enjoy the power on a subconscious level.
[01:01:53]  They don't even realize it, but having us wait on them gives them a feeling of supremacy, and they feel they are an important sale to us.
[01:01:59]  Do not get in conversations where you answer one question after the other, yet getting no closer to the sale whatsoever.
[01:02:05]  Irrelevant questions take too much time.
[01:02:06]  You lose power by answering them.
[01:02:08]  The person asking the questions always has the power.
[01:02:11]  You should only allow potential students to ask one of these questions and then take back the power.
[01:02:16]  When you answer one of these questions, give a quick answer and then start asking questions.
[01:02:19]  Examples.
[01:02:20]  I'm not sure who developed the property.
[01:02:22]  I think the real question we should be asking ourselves is, are you ready to change your current lifestyle?
[01:02:27]  Oh my God.
[01:02:28]  Do not let potential students have more than one concern.
[01:02:32]  What?
[01:02:33]  So if they're like, it's my health.
[01:02:37]  You know, that's money that could be going to some medical treatments that would allow me to extend my life to keep doing this.
[01:02:43]  It's remarkable.
[01:02:45]  If you've ever bought a newish car, any car, really, if you buy it from like a lot, you're spending in that ballpark $10,000 to $35,000.
[01:02:53]  And you're going up against a salesman.
[01:02:56]  But they'll always answer.
[01:02:57]  They'll lie in their answers to your questions, but they'll answer a lot of questions.

=== Changing Your Lifestyle Fast (14:07) ===

[01:03:00]  Oh, yeah.
[01:03:00]  They know it seems shady to do anything else.
[01:03:02]  Well, but the thing is, at least they know they're selling you a car.
[01:03:05]  Yeah.
[01:03:06]  It is a thing that does a thing.
[01:03:07]  Yeah.
[01:03:07]  And like, you can actually drive away in it and it will do probably most of what it advertises.
[01:03:13]  Whereas this is like, you got to do this high-pressure shit to be like, look, bro, if they're asking too many questions, these aren't the type of people who are going to buy it, who aren't going to fall for it anyway.
[01:03:21]  Yeah, it's not like like fudging when someone asks if a car is like undercoating, like how well it works.
[01:03:26]  Oh, yeah, yeah.
[01:03:27]  You're like, oh, those weather mats, all weather.
[01:03:29]  Yeah, you're going to be fine.
[01:03:30]  You're going to be fine.
[01:03:31]  Yeah, they'll do great.
[01:03:32]  Yeah.
[01:03:33]  So the playbook notes that students should be asked what they do and how many hours a week they are working, as well as whether or not they love their job.
[01:03:40]  The reason to ask this is not simple human interest, but in case someone says they don't have the time to sign up for a three-day workshop.
[01:03:48]  Quote, you can come at them strongly and throw this right back at them.
[01:03:52]  Well, insert students' name.
[01:03:53]  The only reason you don't have the time right now is because you're working 45 hours at a job you don't enjoy.
[01:03:58]  I won't even bring up the hours after you factor in all the time you sit in traffic, taxes, and everything else that's taken out of your paycheck.
[01:04:03]  Have you added up what you net an hour?
[01:04:05]  I bet you wouldn't like that number.
[01:04:07]  You're trying to fool yourself, but you're not fooling me.
[01:04:10]  You came down here today because you're tired of killing yourself just to survive.
[01:04:13]  We will show you how to thrive in real estate and control your own financial destiny.
[01:04:17]  And the best part is, when you double your income from real estate part-time, you can quit your job, work 25 hours a week, and create more wealth than you have ever dreamed of.
[01:04:25]  Now, let's take it one step at a time.
[01:04:26]  Follow me and let's get you enrolled.
[01:04:28]  Listen closely to the orientation.
[01:04:30]  It's possible if you do exactly what we tell you, we may be able to start helping you put together a deal next Saturday.
[01:04:36]  Congratulations.
[01:04:38]  Oh, wow.
[01:04:39]  What a journey you just took me on.
[01:04:41]  That was a whole look at you.
[01:04:42]  You're pathetic.
[01:04:43]  You make 40 cents an hour.
[01:04:45]  Yeah.
[01:04:46]  What the fuck?
[01:04:47]  Wow.
[01:04:48]  And it literally ends with congratulations.
[01:04:50]  Congratulations.
[01:04:51]  Holy shit.
[01:04:52]  Yeah, there's an exclamation point.
[01:04:53]  That is forceful.
[01:04:54]  Yeah.
[01:04:54]  To be like, yeah, no, you'll be closing a deal.
[01:04:56]  Congratulations.
[01:04:57]  You've decided you're doing it.
[01:04:59]  And honestly, the future generations of your family are also thankful.
[01:05:02]  All going to thank you now.
[01:05:04]  Right this second.
[01:05:05]  Babies are going to get out of the time stream and give you their thanks.
[01:05:09]  How does that feel?
[01:05:10]  How does what feel?
[01:05:12]  To start a dynasty.
[01:05:15]  You really should have written a copy for this.
[01:05:16]  Man, I sell cars.
[01:05:20]  Oh, yeah, I'll bet you did.
[01:05:21]  Oh, yo.
[01:05:23]  The people you learned, like, I wasn't really good at closing because I couldn't lie.
[01:05:27]  Yeah.
[01:05:27]  But I picked up so, I'm just, you know, anything that's funny to me, like, I'll kind of obsess about.
[01:05:32]  And they were, the people around me were fucking insane.
[01:05:34]  Like, they would say shit like that.
[01:05:36]  Yeah.
[01:05:36]  And they'll be like, hey, look, you know, a man or a woman come in looking for the truck.
[01:05:40]  Obviously, you got to sell the man.
[01:05:41]  Okay.
[01:05:42]  But here's the thing, man.
[01:05:43]  You can't ignore the wife, man.
[01:05:44]  Because guess what?
[01:05:45]  The neck, it fucking turns the head.
[01:05:47]  Okay.
[01:05:48]  And if you don't tend to that, the sale's fucking gone.
[01:05:51]  And you're like, holy shit.
[01:05:53]  Oh, my God.
[01:05:54]  I'm like, wow, is this something you thought of?
[01:05:56]  Like, yeah, as I live, because I live in my van still.
[01:05:59]  There's a guy who did live in his van.
[01:06:01]  He was just saving his money.
[01:06:02]  Yeah.
[01:06:03]  So he just, sure.
[01:06:04]  It was really weird.
[01:06:05]  He lived in his van.
[01:06:06]  Super weird.
[01:06:06]  But was like closing deals.
[01:06:08]  And I'm not sure what happened to him.
[01:06:10]  I mean, he's probably like working in Eric Prince's weird bootleg Air Force.
[01:06:15]  Or bootleg wall building company.
[01:06:18]  Yeah.
[01:06:19]  Jesus.
[01:06:20]  So I had to fight myself over exactly how much of this stuff to include.
[01:06:24]  I kind of fell down a rabbit hole when I started reading this playbook.
[01:06:28]  I stepped into this expecting to find sleas, but I didn't anticipate just how abusive it would all sound.
[01:06:33]  So here's like a chunk of a Q ⁇ A between a student and a sales teacher.
[01:06:39]  Objection.
[01:06:40]  I like this, but I'll do it later.
[01:06:42]  And here's what the teacher is supposed to say in response.
[01:06:44]  I'm glad you made it down here today and didn't procrastinate like you're doing now.
[01:06:48]  Have you added up how much money you have lost by procrastinating in your life?
[01:06:51]  It sounds like it's a very bad habit for you.
[01:06:53]  If I had $10,000 in my hand and I said, I'll give it to you for $2,000, would you have to think about it or make a smart financial decision?
[01:07:03]  Well, fuck you.
[01:07:05]  Trump University.
[01:07:06]  What the fuck?
[01:07:07]  Oh, it's amazing.
[01:07:10]  Well, congrats.
[01:07:10]  Hmm.
[01:07:11]  But it looks like you're doing that thing you always do.
[01:07:13]  Always do, you piece of shit.
[01:07:14]  Yeah.
[01:07:15]  Okay, loser.
[01:07:16]  Keep pissing the dollars away.
[01:07:18]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:07:19]  Enjoy living in the garbage, trash man.
[01:07:21]  Oh, yeah.
[01:07:22]  You said your mom passed away, huh?
[01:07:23]  Uh-huh.
[01:07:24]  Wow, that's a shame.
[01:07:25]  Was it from shame?
[01:07:25]  Was it from shame?
[01:07:26]  It was from shame because of your progression.
[01:07:28]  The child is such a procrastin.
[01:07:29]  Oh, yeah.
[01:07:30]  Honestly, you make me sick.
[01:07:31]  Get out of here.
[01:07:31]  Get out of this.
[01:07:32]  Wow.
[01:07:33]  That's some real gaslighty shit.
[01:07:35]  It is some really gaslighty shit.
[01:07:37]  Yeah.
[01:07:38]  The playbook uses the term set the hook to describe the purpose of those free previews, which were, again, billed as actual informative sessions for people interested in real estate.
[01:07:46]  Set the hook because you're catching prey.
[01:07:49]  Prey that you're killing.
[01:07:51]  Right.
[01:07:51]  You devour everything you can eat and destroy.
[01:07:54]  Take every bit of value you can out of it.
[01:07:57]  Leave only the bones and pick your teeth with the bones.
[01:08:00]  Now, teachers were directed to pretend they knew Donald Trump in order to better make the case that students should listen to them.
[01:08:06]  Here's time.
[01:08:08]  I remember one time Mr. Trump had us over for dinner, the script read, after which the instructor recounted how Trump had confided some nugget of real estate wisdom to him.
[01:08:16]  No, I didn't have dinner with him, conceded Gerald Martin, when questioned in a 2013 deposition about a recorded presentation in which he mouths the script's dinner with Trump line.
[01:08:24]  I was just trying to be as close to the script as possible.
[01:08:27]  Wow.
[01:08:30]  Oh, man.
[01:08:30]  That's my favorite kind of bullshit.
[01:08:32]  It's the best.
[01:08:34]  You know, I don't know.
[01:08:35]  Have you ever had a steak dinner before?
[01:08:38]  Okay, great.
[01:08:39]  So I was just actually with Donald Trump and at his house, I mean, obviously, this man is only going to eat the finest steaks.
[01:08:46]  And when I was there, he brought out this beef.
[01:08:49]  It's from Japan.
[01:08:49]  It's called Kobe Beef.
[01:08:51]  Now, you know, Kobe Bryant?
[01:08:52]  Yeah, he's named after this because the beef is so good.
[01:08:55]  Now, it's a kind of beef that melts in your mouth.
[01:08:58]  And I'm not saying that to impress you.
[01:09:00]  I'm saying that to impress upon you that I actually have, from my personal relationship with Donald Trump, learned the kinds of skills, techniques, strategies to be eating that kind of meal as if it were an afterthought, as if it were your, I don't know, hot pocket based on your body type that I'm looking at.
[01:09:18]  See, there needs to be like a government registry for people who can do what you do.
[01:09:22]  Or do we just keep tabs on them?
[01:09:23]  Just fast talkers, baby.
[01:09:25]  It's just weird.
[01:09:26]  I'm too empathetic, like to like actually fuck him.
[01:09:28]  Yeah, but I love this.
[01:09:29]  This is safe.
[01:09:30]  Have you ever seen the documentary Marjo?
[01:09:33]  No.
[01:09:33]  It's a documentary about this kid who was like, his parents made him be a preacher.
[01:09:37]  This is like in the 30s and 40s when he was starting at like age five.
[01:09:40]  So he was like marrying people as a six-year-old.
[01:09:42]  There's video of some of this.
[01:09:44]  And as an adult, like he couldn't do anything else but this his whole life.
[01:09:47]  So as an adult, after his parents abandoned him, he got back into basically conning people out of money as a preacher in these like big revivals that were happening all the way across the South.
[01:09:55]  And he felt bad about it because he had a soul.
[01:09:57]  And so he took a documentary film crew in with him in like the 70s to record behind the scenes what happens in all these scam revivals.
[01:10:04]  It's an incredible movie.
[01:10:06]  Wow.
[01:10:06]  It's an incredible movie.
[01:10:07]  But he's got this ability to just like turn that on and start going to these beautiful like evangelical rants.
[01:10:15]  And it's the same sort of thing.
[01:10:16]  Like it's just amazing to watch.
[01:10:18]  Wow.
[01:10:19]  You know the impress you?
[01:10:20]  I'm not here to impress you, impress upon you.
[01:10:22]  Yeah, that's a Tony Robbins line.
[01:10:23]  Oh, yeah.
[01:10:24]  That sounds like a Tony Robbins line.
[01:10:26]  Good on you.
[01:10:27]  And he says that.
[01:10:27]  He's like, and you know, I've got, he literally said some shit.
[01:10:30]  He's like, and now I've got a Rolex.
[01:10:31]  Yeah.
[01:10:31]  And he's like, and I don't say that to impress you.
[01:10:34]  I say that to impress upon you.
[01:10:36]  I'm like, oh, slick fucking line.
[01:10:39]  That is a good, it's not an unskilled job.
[01:10:42]  No, not at all.
[01:10:43]  I will say that.
[01:10:44]  Especially when you have lines like that that you're like, whoa.
[01:10:46]  Like, okay, all right.
[01:10:48]  All right.
[01:10:49]  Weird flex, but okay.
[01:10:50]  You deserve something for that.
[01:10:54]  Oh, yes.
[01:10:55]  Oh, man.
[01:10:55]  Shit, the time quote even continues because they asked Donald Trump about the guy's dinner story.
[01:11:01]  And he said, I don't know who you're talking about, but I will tell you that I met many of the professors and I also studied just about all of the resumes.
[01:11:07]  I'm very much into academics, you know.
[01:11:09]  I was a good student.
[01:11:11]  Dude.
[01:11:13]  I met the professors.
[01:11:15]  I met the professors.
[01:11:16]  What the fuck are you talking about?
[01:11:18]  These are the maniacs who are just lying through their teeth.
[01:11:21]  Oh, the president.
[01:11:23]  Oh, the president.
[01:11:24]  The training was, in fact, bullshit, what training there was that wasn't just upselling people.
[01:11:28]  Since most instructors had either no real estate experience or were failed real estate investors who'd gone bankrupt in the field, they weren't exactly filled with good advice to begin with.
[01:11:36]  Stephen Gilpin, who was an actual real estate expert, although that's a pretty scammy field inherently, but he actually had like certifications and stuff and had done this for years.
[01:11:44]  So you said he had gone bankrupt?
[01:11:46]  No, no, no.
[01:11:48]  He just, like, his company stopped doing as well because the market started to crash.
[01:11:51]  So he was like, well, this is guaranteed money.
[01:11:53]  Gotcha, guys.
[01:11:54]  Okay.
[01:11:54]  Yeah.
[01:11:55]  So Stephen Gilpin, since he actually knew something about real estate and like the laws surrounding it, was ground zero zero for witnessing the kind of noxious nonsense that was spouted at these seminars.
[01:12:05]  Quote, one day I got an incoming call from a student.
[01:12:07]  Let's call him Sunil.
[01:12:08]  He said, I'm here at the Department of... Specific.
[01:12:11]  Well, I mean, I mean, I guess a lot of people who were like recent immigrants to the country and had managed to save up some money got involved in this.
[01:12:16]  They were saying like, let's call him Sunil.
[01:12:19]  I would hate for the guy's name to be Anil.
[01:12:22]  Yeah, Anil.
[01:12:23]  It's like, let's call him.
[01:12:24]  To be honest, from what I can tell about Gilpin, that might have been.
[01:12:29]  Let's call him Mr. X.
[01:12:30]  Yeah, let's call him Mr. X.
[01:12:32]  He said, I'm here at the Department of Records and Deeds trying to file documents and they won't accept my paperwork.
[01:12:37]  Okay, I said, what are you trying to do?
[01:12:38]  I'm filing an affidavit to cloud a title, said Sunil, and they won't take it.
[01:12:43]  Now, clouting a title is a real estate term.
[01:12:45]  It basically means it refers to an irregularity in the chain of title of real estate property.
[01:12:51]  And it's one of those things you can do in some time.
[01:12:55]  It makes it hard for another buyer to go after the title essentially like that.
[01:12:59]  I don't entirely understand it, but it's a kind of shady thing that is legal in some states.
[01:13:03]  Yeah, it's well, let me tell you something, Robert.
[01:13:04]  It is legal.
[01:13:06]  And I do have experience with that.
[01:13:08]  Oh.
[01:13:09]  It's actually how I don't know if you've seen...
[01:13:11]  This is an Automars Piaget wristwatch I'm wearing.
[01:13:14]  Of course, you know the name of a nice wristwatch.
[01:13:18]  Okay, so once he hears that this guy's trying to cloud a title, the first thing in Stephen Gilpin's head is like, he starts thinking through the states he knows where it's illegal to do this to try to see like if that's what's happening.
[01:13:28]  I noticed the 480 area code of his call, Phoenix, Arizona.
[01:13:31]  You've made a mistake, I've said.
[01:13:32]  What you're trying to do can't be done in the state of Arizona.
[01:13:35]  It's illegal.
[01:13:36]  But this is what our mentor told us to do.
[01:13:38]  He said, wait, what?
[01:13:39]  I said, where did you learn this?
[01:13:40]  At the Trump University retreat in Scottsdale.
[01:13:42]  So this kid had paid $5,000 to get a step-by-step advice to do something that was illegal in the state that he was trying to do it in.
[01:13:49]  Since he went ahead and signed the illegal document before being reported, he had technically committed a crime, one that could have resulted in a $10,000 fine and a year of jail time.
[01:13:57]  Oh, wow.
[01:14:00]  Wow.
[01:14:00]  So when you get right down to it, Trump University wasn't just a con.
[01:14:04]  It was a shockingly bad and unspeakably lazy con.
[01:14:06]  And it's about to get shockinger, lazier, and somehow even grosser.
[01:14:11]  When we return on Thursday, we'll talk about the kind of human beings who worked as teachers at Trump University.
[01:14:16]  We'll talk about the downfall of Trump University, and we'll talk about what it taught our president to be about the magic of conning people out of money.
[01:14:23]  Miles, pluggables.
[01:14:26]  Pluggables.
[01:14:27]  Glade plugins.
[01:14:29]  Love them.
[01:14:30]  And also, you know, I co-host the daily Zeitgeist on this network.
[01:14:35]  Daily news and politics and culture, comedy, you know, have some laughs.
[01:14:40]  Talk about the news.
[01:14:40]  Laughs.
[01:14:41]  Yeah.
[01:14:41]  Think, learn.
[01:14:42]  Yeah, love.
[01:14:44]  Love.
[01:14:44]  But you won't hear the kind of slick sales shit I do here.
[01:14:47]  This is exclusive for Behind the Bastards.
[01:14:49]  I appreciate it.
[01:14:49]  And yeah, follow me on, you know, social media, Twitter, Instagram at Miles of Gray, G-R-A-Y, M-I-L-E-S.
[01:14:56]  So enjoy this world exclusive of Miles trying to sell you con stuff.
[01:15:01]  And enjoy our episode on Thursday when we return with the rest of the story of Trump University.
[01:15:06]  You can find us online at behindthebastards.com.
[01:15:08]  You can find us on Instagram and Twitter at BastardsPod.
[01:15:11]  You can buy a shirt.
[01:15:12]  You could also buy my real estate investment guide, Investing with Robert.
[01:15:17]  I wrote it all myself.
[01:15:19]  Now, I've never invested in real estate.
[01:15:21]  And in fact, one year I lost tens of thousands of dollars by renting what was essentially a mansion for no good reason.
[01:15:28]  So, yeah, I'm- Weird flex, but okay.
[01:15:31]  Not a flex almost almost made me homeless.
[01:15:33]  So, hey, but you had tens of thousands of dollars, man.
[01:15:37]  Yeah, that bit of info was there.
[01:15:39]  And I call that a flex.
[01:15:41]  Yeah, I invested the money I made from my book in living in a giant house and going to Iraq three times.
[01:15:46]  Wow, two great investments.
[01:15:48]  It's called Living Your Best Life, Robert.
[01:15:51]  So, if you want to buy my book of real estate secrets, it's $44.95, investing with Robert, $4,495.
[01:15:58]  And I promise you, less than 40% of what is in the book is illegal in your state.
[01:16:03]  Oh, great.
[01:16:04]  Not valid in Arizona, New York, New Mexico, New Jersey, Rhode Island, Michigan, and the rest of the Eastern Seaboard.
[01:16:13]  The rest of the Eastern Seaboard.
[01:16:14]  Also, Atlanta.
[01:16:16]  Also, Louisiana.
[01:16:18]  Just Atlanta, the city of Atlanta.
[01:16:19]  Just Atlanta.
[01:16:20]  Rest of Georgia, you're fine.
[01:16:21]  You're fine.
[01:16:21]  All right.
[01:16:21]  This has been Behind the Bastards.
[01:16:23]  I've been Robert Evans.
[01:16:24]  Hugged Cat.
[01:16:35]  In 2023, bachelor star Clayton Eckard was accused of fathering twins, but the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax.
[01:16:42]  You doctored this particular test twice, Miss Owens, correct?
[01:16:46]  I doctored the test once.
[01:16:48]  It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern.
[01:16:52]  Two more men who'd been through the same thing.
[01:16:55]  Greg Gillespie and Michael Mancini.
[01:16:57]  My mind was blown.
[01:16:58]  I'm Stephanie Young.
[01:17:00]  This is Love Trapped.
[01:17:01]  Laura, Scottsdale Police.
[01:17:03]  As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.

=== Uncovering Disturbing Patterns (01:47) ===

[01:17:08]  Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[01:17:15]  10-10 shots five city hall building.
[01:17:18]  How did this ever happen in City Hall?
[01:17:20]  Somebody tell me that.
[01:17:21]  A shocking public murder.
[01:17:23]  This is one of the most dramatic events that really ever happened in New York City politics.
[01:17:29]  They screamed, get down, get down.
[01:17:31]  Those are shots.
[01:17:33]  A tragedy that's now forgotten.
[01:17:35]  And a mystery that may or may not have been political.
[01:17:38]  That may have been about sex.
[01:17:40]  Listen to Rorschach, murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[01:17:49]  When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands.
[01:17:57]  I vowed I will be his last target.
[01:18:00]  He is not going to get away with this.
[01:18:02]  He's going to get what he deserves.
[01:18:04]  We always say, trust your girlfriends.
[01:18:08]  Listen to the girlfriends.
[01:18:10]  Trust me, babe.
[01:18:11]  On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[01:18:21]  I'm Laurie Siegel, and this is Mostly Human, a tech podcast through a human lens.
[01:18:25]  This week, an interview with OpenAI CEO Sam Altman.
[01:18:29]  I think society is going to decide that creators of AI products bear a tremendous amount of responsibility to the products we put out in the world.
[01:18:36]  An in-depth conversation with the man who's shaping our future.
[01:18:40]  My highest order bit is to not destroy the world of AI.
[01:18:43]  Listen to Mostly Human on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
[01:18:51]  This is an iHeart podcast.
[01:18:54]  Guaranteed human.