The Ben Shapiro Show - MASSACRE: 15 Plus Killed in Islamist Hanukkah Attack in Australia

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Dec. 15, 2025 - The Ben Shapiro Show

59:18

MASSACRE: 15 Plus Killed in Islamist Hanukkah Attack in Australia

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ben shapiro

dailywire 43:01

Appearances

anthony albanese

aus 00:52

bill cassidy

sen/r 02:06

chris murphy

sen/d 00:47

donald j trump

admin 01:07

joseph oduro

01:19

kevin hassett

r 01:21

raphael warnock

sen/d 00:53

tom sharp

01:11

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dana bash

cnn 00:27

margaret brennan

cbs 00:09

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Speaker	Time	Text
ben shapiro ▲ ● ▼		Islamic terrorists kill at least 15 people in Bondi Beach Plus, a mass shooting at Brown University, and Rob Reiner and his wife murdered in Los Angeles.
		A dark day across the board.
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		Well, on Sunday, the worst shooting attack in modern Australian history happened.
		It was a terror attack against the Jewish community in Australia.
		According to the Wall Street Journal, two gunmen killed 15 people during a Hanukkah event Sunday on Sydney's Bondi Beach in what officials called a terrorist attack on Australia's Jewish community.
		One suspect was killed.
		The other is in critical condition.
		It was the country's worst mass shooting in nearly 30 years.
		Authorities increased the death toll after a 10-year-old girl and a 40-year-old man died in the hospital.
		Over three dozen people were injured as well, some seriously, including two police officers.
		Apparently, the suspects were a father and a son who legally owned six guns, despite the firearms laws in Australia, which are indeed incredibly restrictive.
		The two shooters were, of course, radical Muslims.
		They stormed the family-friendly Hanukkah, according to the New York Post.
		It's called the Hanukkah by the Sea event, and it was run by the Chabad.
		Chabad is basically a Jewish outreach organization.
		They exist in a lot of cities all over the world, including in places where there are not a lot of Jews, especially during Hanukkah.
		They tend to do these sort of big public events in public areas.
		They have them again all over the United States, all over Europe, all over the world, including in Sydney.
		And all it is is just people getting together and eating latkes and lighting the menorah and celebrating with each other.
		And this is apparently one of the most Jewish areas of Sydney.
		Bondi Beach, the area right around it, is a very Jewish area.
		And two radical Muslims, father and son, united by hatred of Jews, decided that they would show up and just start blowing people away.
		They were armed with shotguns and a bolt action rifle.
		They killed at least 15.
		They injured at least 40 more, according to the New York Post and the New South Wales police.
		The shooting went on for at least 20 minutes, apparently.
		20 minutes of shooting.
		The police did pretty much nothing.
		We do have tape.
		The tape is, again, astonishing, difficult to show because when you see the tape, what you see is people legitimately not doing their job.
		You see the police cowering in fear.
		You see the cops who apparently at the police station very nearby.
		They just didn't show up for whatever reason.
		Maybe it was out of fear.
		Maybe it was out of incompetence.
		But when you have a continuous mass shooting happening and you have apparently at least four police officers present and the police are doing nothing, you do have to ask some questions about the system in which this is existing.
		Apparently, as far as the firearm licenses go, according to the New South Wales police commissioner, Mal Vanyan, said he met the eligibility criteria for a firearms license.
		That would be the father who was part of a gun club and held a recreational hunting license for over a decade.
		Apparently, he was a member of a gun club.
		He was entitled by nature of the firearms act to have a firearms license issue.
		So it's very, very difficult to actually get a license for a firearm in Australia, but the father was able to get six firearms.
		They did a background check.
		Apparently, the background check did not include whether you are a radical Muslim in any real way.
		One of the people who was killed was a Holocaust survivor who was killed while shielding his wife in the middle of the attack.
		His name was Alex Kleitman, and he had traveled to Bondi Beach with his wife of 57 years for the Hanukkah event.
		Apparently, he decided, the Holocaust survivor, to protect his wife, and he was shot and killed as he lay on the ground on top of his wife, saving his wife in his final act.
		Eyewitness Arsen Ostrovsky, who was shot in the head, but survived.
		He's kind of grazed by a bullet.
		Here he was describing what he saw in the middle of the shooting.
bill cassidy ▲ ● ▼		Tell me what happened.
unidentified		I was here with my family.
		It was a Hanukkah celebration.
		There were hundreds of people.
		There were children.
		There were elderly families enjoying themselves.
		Children, kids at a festival, playing.
		And then all of a sudden, it's absolute chaos.
		There's guns, fire everywhere, people ducking.
		It was absolute chaos.
		We didn't know what was happening, where the gunfire was coming from.
		I saw blood gushing in front of me.
		I saw people hip, so people fall to the ground.
		My only concern was, where are my kids?
		Where are my kids?
		Where's my wife?
		Where's my family?
		I survived October 7th.
		I lived in Israel the last 13 years.
		We came here only two weeks ago to work with the Jewish community to fight anti-Semitism, to fight this bloodthirsty, ravaging hatred.
bill cassidy ▲ ● ▼		That's why you're here.
unidentified		That's why I'm here.
		You know, we've lived through worse.
		We're going to get through this and we're going to get the bastards that did this.
bill cassidy ▲ ● ▼		Tell me, did you see the gunman?
unidentified		I did.
		I saw at least one gunman firing.
		Looked like a shotgun firing randomly in all directions.
		I saw children falling to the floor.
		I saw elderly.
		I saw invalids.
		I saw people just, it was an absolute bloodbath, blood gushing everywhere.
		You know, October 7th, that's the last time I saw this.
		I never thought I would see this in Australia, not in my lifetime.
bill cassidy ▲ ● ▼		On Bondi Beach.
unidentified		On Bondi Beach, of all places, this iconic place.
		Your children, your wife.
		My children, my wife are safe, thank God.
		They're okay.
		They managed to get away.
		But I didn't know.
		I didn't know where they were.
		And that's nothing.
		There's no greater fear, no greater horror, not knowing where your family is.
		They're okay.
		They'll be okay.
		You're a legend.
bill cassidy ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
ben shapiro ▲ ● ▼		Now, again, this sort of attack, I would be lying if I said that Jews around the world don't expect this sort of thing to happen, especially in the aftermath of the radical increase in Islamic anti-Semitism and its presence all over the globe and the increase of generalized anti-Semitism all over the globe.
		Not a gigantic shock that this happened.
		The only question is where.
		And of course, when you're talking about the presence of radical Muslims, you can't just talk about anti-Semitic terror attacks.
		Obviously, there have been a wide variety of terror attacks by radicalized Muslims all over the world, including in the United States, whether you're talking about the Pulse nightclub shooting, whether you're talking about the attack on two National Guard members just a couple of weeks ago in Europe, whether you're talking about radical Muslims who decide to drive trucks into Christmas markets.
		This has become a regular feature of Western life.
		Attacks on people who are non-Muslim on the basis of their religion.
		This has become an unfortunate, recurrent feature of Western life because largely of the importation of radical Muslims and people who are then radicalized into the West.
		Mike Burgess, according to the Wall Street Journal, who leads Australia's domestic intelligence agency, said one of the suspects in Sunday's attack was known to the agency, but hadn't been considered an immediate threat.
		Police didn't say what ideology motivated the men, but I think it's a little clear when you show up to a Hanukkah by the sea event and just start mowing people down and you're a father and son team who attended the local mosque and you have an IED, apparently several IEDs in a vehicle nearby.
		I think we don't have to really guess too hard here.
		We really don't have to guess too hard.
		Jewish organization Chabad said among those killed was Ellie Schlanger, the assistant rabbi at the organization's local branch and a key organizer of the Hanukkah by the Sea event.
		Police began receiving reports of shot fired around 6:47 p.m. local time on Sunday.
		Again, there were over a thousand people there.
		Two men dressed in black could be seen firing guns from a pedestrian bridge in a video posted on social media by the Australian Jewish Association.
		Again, the footage is quite awful, obviously, and the proximity was fairly close.
		One eyewitness, a man named Shmulek Scuri, describes how the police, there were police officers there, and they basically did nothing.
		They froze up.
unidentified		Can you tell me what happened?
		There was two shooters, one on the bridge, one under the bridge, just started to shoot for 20 minutes.
		They should change, change magazine, and just shoot.
		Simple as that.
		20 minutes with four policemen there.
		Nobody give fire back.
		Laughing like their froze.
		Like, what it looks like 20 minutes.
		Like, and they should, the guy changed magazine.
		I look at him all the time.
		I was doing my babies under me.
		And I look at that.
		And he's just rifle and a pistol and just shoot, shoot.
ben shapiro ▲ ● ▼		Okay, now, again, the police did pretty much nothing, apparently, for a long time.
		There was one local hero who tried to do something.
		This actually was a Muslim bystander named Ahmed al-Ahmed, 43-year-old Muslim father of two, showing that there are good people inside every religion.
		The question, of course, is whether when you import an enormous number of people of any particular religion, that changes the culture of the country or whether it creates enclaves that are dangerous to the rest of the country.
		But that doesn't mean there aren't individuals who are wonderful people.
		Apparently, Ahmed al-Ahmed, one of the bystanders here, sounds like an amazing person.
		Here he is tackling one of the shooters.
		He takes away his gun.
		Now, one of the things that's astonishing about this video is he takes away the gun from the shooter and then he points the gun at the shooter and then he lets the shooter walk away.
		And I assume that is only because the gun laws in Australia are so insane that if he had shot the shooter, he might find himself under threat of prosecution.
		I mean, this is really quite nuts.
		Here is the video of the bystander saving people by disarming one of the terrorists.
		You can see he actually jumps on the shooter.
		He rips the gun away from him.
		The guy stumbles down and then he points the gun at the shooter.
		You can hear the shots in the background.
		The other shooter is still standing on the bridge and firing at people and presumably murdering people.
		This guy then walks out of sight.
		It's not up to the bystander.
		Where are the cops?
		Where are the cops?
		According to the Times of Israel, dramatic footage showed the unarmed Ahmed wrestling the weapon from one of the two gunmen before pointing the attacker's weapon at him.
		According to Ahmed's cousin, who shot twice in the arm during the altercation and was taken to a local hospital for surgery.
		Apparently, he had no experience with guns prior to the incident and was shot by the second gunman, who was perched on a nearby footbridge after succeeding in taking the gun from the first assailant.
		He was called by the prime minister of Israel, Benjamin Tanyahu, the pinnacle of heroism, and said, We saw the action of a brave man, a brave Muslim, and I salute him for stopping one of the terrorists from killing innocent Jews, which, of course, is incredible and an act of heroism.
		President Trump, for his part, obviously came out with a very strong statement condemning hatred of Jews and urging American Jews to celebrate Hanukkah unabated.
unidentified		Before we begin, however, I want to just pay my respects to the people.
		Unfortunately, two are no longer with us.
		Brown University, nine injured, and two are looking down on us right now from heaven.
		And likewise in Australia, as you know, there was a terrible attack, 11 dead, 29 badly wounded.
		And that was an anti-Semitic attack, obviously.
		And I just want to pay my respects to everybody.
ben shapiro ▲ ● ▼		So what led up to this?
		Because when there is a mass shooting, we have to ask what could have prevented that mass shooting.
		Now, the easy answer that people always give is gun confiscation, masgun confiscation.
		Well, clearly in this case, the shooters had the guns legally in the United States, as we'll discuss when you come to a shooting that happened at Brown University, another attempted mass shooting at Brown University.
		We'll get to talk about gun control, which springs up in the aftermath of every mass shooting in the United States and elsewhere.
		But we would be remiss, again, if we did not point out that to pretend that this was unexpected in Australia would be ridiculous.
		It would be ridiculous.
		There have been warnings going out from the Australian Jewish community for two years about the radical increase in anti-Semitic attacks, including firebombing of a synagogue.
		Questions about the policies that have been promoted by the Australian government to import radical Muslims into the country and to make excuses for their violent actions.
		Questions asked about why hundreds of thousands of people in places like Australia marched in support of the terrorist group Hamas, or why in the immediate aftermath of October 7, there were rallies at the Sydney Opera House in which people were shouting, gas the Jews.
		Flashback 2023.
		Here's what it looked like when people were literally shouting gas the Jews outside the Sydney Opera House in the aftermath of October 7th.
		A country that imports and tolerates this sort of stuff.
		Are we supposed to be shocked when some of these people who are legitimately flying ISIS flags?
		It turns out that they are perfectly happy to commit acts of terrorism.
		Should we be shocked by that?
		Australia's Muslim population right now is around 813,000 people, representing about 3.2% of the total Australian population.
		It has increased 450% from 1991 to 2021.
		And the Muslim population of Sydney represents 6.3% of the total population, which is pretty significant.
		Thus, it should be not a particular shock that according to a report published Tuesday by the Executive Council of Australian Jewry, the country saw 1,654 incidents during the 12-month period from October 1st, 2024 to September 30th, 2025.
		That is about five times the annual average recorded in the decade prior to the October 7th, 2023 Hamas attack.
		And that was actually down from the prior year, which saw over 2,000 incidents.
		It is not a shock that this sort of stuff has been happening with increasing frequency, especially given the fact that the government of Australia, a very left-wing labor government, has decided to normalize and mainstream this sort of stuff.
		I have friends in Australia, some of whom are Jewish, and the amount of security required in Australia for the Jewish community is pretty astonishing.
		Of course, that now happens to be true, unfortunately, in a lot of places, including pretty much every major Jewish school in the United States.
		According to the Times of Israel, Linda Bennett-Minasha, the president of the National Council of Jewish Women in Australia, told the Times of Israel, I'm horrified and devastated that this happened, but not shocked.
		Over the past two years, anti-Semitism has been rising by the month, and the government has not listened to our pleas.
		When there's no visible consequence to incitement, violence always ensues.
		Over the past year, Jews in Australia have seen synagogues, schools, and homes firebombed, two nurses threatening to kill Jewish patients in their hospitals, and the discovery of a trailer filled with explosives said to have been intended to cause a mass casualty event at a Sydney synagogue.
		Again, not, again, a gigantic shock, and pretending otherwise would be ridiculous.
		There have been escalating anti-Semitic incidents in Australia for years.
		Miranda Devine writes over at the New York Post.
		Unchecked anti-Semitism, cowardly appeasement, lax policing, and foolish immigration decisions, half a century in gestation, have coalesced in multicultural southwestern Sydney an hour's drive from Bondi.
		In the two years since the Hamas attack on Israel, synagogues in Sydney have been firebombed, kosher restaurants vandalized, cars outside Jewish homes torched, and rancid anti-Semitic graffiti have become ubiquitous along the Bondi promenade.
		Kill Jews is the mantra.
		Every weekend for at least two years, downtown Sydney has been shut down by Palestinian protests.
		This is what globalize the intifada looks like.
		When people talk about globalizing the intifada, this is what it looks like.
		Intifada is violent action, violent resistance.
		And when you globalize it, you mean kill Jews.
unidentified		That's what it means.
ben shapiro ▲ ● ▼		Australian immigration minister Tony Burke, who has been busy organizing visas for Gazans, was just busted for having a secret meeting with officials to repatriate ISIS brides from Syria.
		Women who went to Syria to marry members of ISIS were repatriated to Australia.
		Last year, during a diplomatic trip, Australian Foreign Minister Penny Wong visited Gaza, but refused to visit any of the sites of the October 7th massacres.
		Again, anybody pretending this is a shock is simply pretending.
		That's all.
		It is just pretend.
		It is just pretend.
		This is a point being made by Ayan Hirsi Ali over at the Free Press today.
		She says this attack was not random.
		It was not an eruption of private madness.
		It was deliberate.
		Jews were targeted on a Jewish holiday in broad daylight in a public place.
		This matters.
		When we blur that fact, we betray the dead.
		But it is worth noting that Anthony Albanese, the prime minister, his original statement completely blurred that fact.
		Here is his original statement: quote: The scenes in Bondi are shocking and distressing.
		Police and emergency responders are on the ground working to save lives.
		My thoughts are with every person affected.
		I have just spoken to the AFP Commissioner and with the NSW Premier.
		We are working with the NSW police and will provide further updates as more information is confirmed.
		I urge people in the vicinity to follow information from the NSW police.
		You notice what that doesn't say anything about the identity of the assailants and anything about the identity of the people who were being shot.
		When people get shot at a Hanukkah by the Sea event, it's pretty clear why they are being shot.
		It took Anthony Albanese hours to actually call the attack what it was, which was an attack on Jews.
anthony albanese ▲ ● ▼		What we saw yesterday was an act of pure evil, an act of anti-Semitism, an act of terrorism on our shores in an iconic Australian location, Bondo Beach, that is associated with joy, associated with families gathering, associated with celebrities, and it is forever tarnished by what has occurred last evening.
		This was an attack deliberately targeted at the Jewish community on the first day of Hanukkah, which of course should be a joyous celebration.
		And the Jewish community are hurting today.
		Today, all Australians wrap our arms around them and say, we stand with you.
		We will do whatever is necessary to stamp out anti-Semitism.
		It is a scourge.
unidentified		Nobody will eradicate it together.
ben shapiro ▲ ● ▼		No one believes that from Anthony Albanese.
		No one believes that.
		No one has made more room for anti-Semitism in Australia than Anthony Albanese and his terrible government.
		More news coming up in a moment.
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		Ayan Herci Ali writes: One truth must be spoken without hesitation.
		Islamist extremism isn't merely another grievance-driven movement.
		It's an existential threat to Western society and to the values that sustain it.
		It rejects pluralism, despises freedom of conscience, and targets Jews and Christians precisely because those traditions stand for limits on power and the dignity of the individual.
		History shows this pattern clearly.
		Where such extremism is tolerated, minorities suffer first and wider society follows.
		And that, of course, is totally correct.
		And pretending that you are hiding behind the guise of anti-Zionism in order to attack Jews as a conspiratorial force in the West manipulating the systems in order to commit genocide and promoting every lie issued by Hamas.
		Of course, that is going to lead to violence.
		Of course, it is.
	Pretending otherwise, again, is blind or stupid or evil or all three.
	It was just back on August 17th, 2025, that Netanyahu wrote a letter to Albanese warning him about the rise of anti-Semitism in Australia.
	Writing, throughout the past year, anti-Semitism has scarred Australian cities since her public statements signaling recognition of a Palestinian state.
	It has intensified.
	And that, of course, is not a surprise because if people believe that violence is going to achieve its intended effect, they continue to do the violence.
	Following Hamas's savage attack on the people of Israel on October 7th, pro-Hamas extremists and left-wing radicals began a campaign of intimidation, vandalism, and violence against Jews across the free world.
	In Australia, wrote Netanyahu to Albanese.
	Again, this is like a couple of months ago.
	That campaign has intensified under your watch.
	These are not isolated incidents.
	This is an epidemic.
	Your call for a Palestinian state pours fuel on this anti-Semitic fire.
	It is not diplomacy.
	It is appeasement.
	It rewards Hamas' terror, hardens Hamas's refusal to free the hostages, emboldens those who menace Australian Jews, and encourages the Jew hatred now stalking your streets.
	He wasn't wrong.
	He wasn't wrong.
	And by the way, it is worth noting that when it comes to media coverage of both the question of Jew hatred by radical Muslims in the West and also those links to lies told in Gaza, the former director of the BBC's Bureau in the Gaza Strip said that the Islamic terror attack in Sydney was an Israeli false flag operation.
	That person was overseeing the BBC's bureau in Gaza.
	So I'm sure the reporting there was absolutely outstanding.
	That is the thing that matters most.
	And meanwhile, another terrible mass shooting over the weekend.
	It happened at Brown University.
	According to the Wall Street Journal, on Saturday afternoon, a gunman opened fire in a busy academic building, killing two and injuring nine.
	Police releasing a video of a suspect dressed in black and walking on a sidewalk near the scene of the shooting.
	Authorities detained a person of interest.
	They then released the person of interest.
	Brown University student Ella Cook was one of the people killed, according to her hometown church in Birmingham, Alabama.
	First-year student Kendall Turner of North Carolina was among those injured.
	The school said she's in critical but stable condition.
	Apparently, this was an economics study group.
	The professor was apparently an associate professor also of Jewish studies.
	And so we still are waiting on motive.
	We don't know what the motive is yet.
	We're going to find out, I would assume, sometime today.
	The shooter is still at large.
	So we'll find out as soon as we have that information.
	We'll bring it to you.
	Meanwhile, a teaching assistant in the classroom described what happened.
joseph oduro ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we just finished up our last review session of the year.
		And then we ended a little bit late.
		It ended around like 4:03.
		And I was giving my closing remarks.
		And then as soon as everybody stood up and started exiting the room, we heard what sounded like gunshots outside the door and we heard screaming from various students.
		And then about five seconds later, we see a gunman enter the room.
		And then he just screamed something and just started shooting.
dana bash ▲ ● ▼		So you saw the gunman enter the room where you were.
joseph oduro ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I was standing in the front of the auditorium and he came through the back.
		So we pretty much directly made eye contact.
		And then as soon as that happened, I looked at my students and signaled them to come to the front.
		And then I just dug.
dana bash ▲ ● ▼		And was the gunman shooting when he entered the room?
joseph oduro ▲ ● ▼		No, he came in, pointed the gun, and then he screamed something.
		I don't know what he said.
		And none of the other students know what he said.
		But yeah, then he just started shooting right after that.
		So from that moment to the first gunshot, it was probably around five to seven seconds.
ben shapiro ▲ ● ▼		Now, again, we don't know what the shooter was shouting at this point.
		There's a lot of speculation, but speculation is not, in fact, evidence or fact.
		And so we're going to refrain from speculation until we know the identity of the alleged shooter or what actually happened.
		You know, President Trump put out a statement in the middle of all of this saying that all that could basically be done at that point is prayer.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		I've been fully briefed on the Brown University situation, what a terrible thing it is.
		And all we can do right now is pray for the victims and for those that were very badly hurt, it looks like.
		And we'll inform you later as to what's happening.
		But it's a shame.
unidentified		It's a shame.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		Just pray.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, George.
ben shapiro ▲ ● ▼		Now, obviously, Democrats have been calling for more gun control because in the aftermath of every mass shooting, there's a call for gun control.
		It's always interesting when there's a call for gun control and when there is not.
		When several dozen people get shot every weekend in Chicago, no calls for gun control.
		When there is a high-profile mass shooting, a call for gun control, almost always, the prescribed method of gun control would have done nothing to stop the mass shooting.
		So citing a sort of outlier circumstance in order to justify a blanket gun policy is always a strange bit of political leisure domain.
		Here is Chris Murphy, the senator from Connecticut, who for some reason wants to run for president.
		I'm not sure exactly why, saying that this is all about the White House not taking on the gun industry.
		Again, this bizarre idea that the White House won't take on an industry that represents a very kind of rounding error part of America's industrial base is pretty wild.
		Could it just be that they disagree on the Second Amendment?
dana bash ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that there is any appetite for any discussion right now?
chris murphy ▲ ● ▼		I mean, of course I will try.
		And, you know, a month or two before we passed that bill in 2022, people would have said, no way, there's no way Democrats and Republicans can come together.
		But after Uvalde, things changed and we were able to get a narrow but important agreement.
		So I will never stop trying to get bipartisan support.
		But I think it is pretty clear that President Trump and this White House are in the pocket of the gun lobby.
		I just don't foresee that this White House is going to support anything that would cross the gun industry.
		And as we know right now, unfortunately, the Republicans in Congress don't ever meaningfully break from this president.
		So until they get the okay from President Trump to break with the gun lobby, I think the chances of us getting something done are slim.
		That doesn't mean I won't try.
ben shapiro ▲ ● ▼		Meanwhile, Raphael Warnock, the senator from Georgia, he's out there also claiming that it's just because America tolerates gun violence.
		I'm not tolerating gun violence.
		No one is in favor of violence using a gun or using a knife or otherwise.
		At least no major politician that I've ever heard of.
		The question is, how do you formulate the public policy that is most likely to be effective without invading the rights of Americans?
		That, of course, is always the question.
		But this kind of emotivism in which you claim that your opponents just don't care about people who are killed in violence with a gun is silly.
raphael warnock ▲ ● ▼		It is a somber morning indeed.
		And as I make my way to my own pulpit this morning, I'm going to say a special prayer for Brown University and for our nation.
		And I can tell you that as a pastor who has presided over many funerals, I don't think that there's any pain deeper than when nature is violently reversed.
		And rather than children burying their parents, the parent has to bear the child.
		And so we pray prayers for these families.
		But we have to pray not only with our lips, but with our action.
		Any nation that tolerates this kind of violence year after year, decade after decade in random places on our college and school campuses without doing all that we can to stop it is broken and in need of moral repair.
ben shapiro ▲ ● ▼		Now, again, the idea that gun laws are going to fix this, I have some very, very serious doubts.
		Democrats never be they seem unable to actually suggest specific gun laws that would prevent any of the types of gun crimes that are occurring other than mass gun confiscation, which they won't actually articulate out loud because they understand that it's politically unpopular.
		Nonetheless, you know, these sorts of situations seem to be for Democrats an opportunity to mouth platitudes about how the other side doesn't care about people who are dying, which, of course, is not true.
		Coming up, ISIS shooters in the Syrian military, three Americans dead.
		We'll get to it in a moment.
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		And meanwhile, on the foreign front, another terrible shooting.
		According to the Wall Street Journal, the attacker who killed three Americans in an ambush on U.S. forces in Syria on Saturday was a member of the Syrian security forces who is set to be fired for holding extremist views, according to Syrian and U.S. officials.
		So, apparently, there was an attack on Saturday at the entrance of a fortified facility of the Internal Security Command that's Syria's main domestic security force, you know, Palmyra, according to the Interior Ministry spokesman.
		The meeting was described by U.S. officials as an effort to broaden cooperation between the U.S. military and Syria's interior ministry and extend it to central Syria.
		The assailant was armed with a machine gun and fired on both U.S. and Syrian troops from a nearby building.
		Two soldiers from the Iowa National Guard were killed.
		Three others were wounded.
		A U.S. civilian working as an interpreter was also killed.
		An Assyrian officer was killed and two others injured, according to the Interior Ministry.
		Iowa Guard soldiers had been deployed to the Middle East earlier this year, including in Syria.
		Again, apparently, the attacker appeared to be a former ISIS insurgent who had joined Syria's security forces after the fall of Assad as part of a quote-unquote infiltration operation.
		This is going to be very difficult because the reality is that the current head of Syria is a former ISIS member.
		And that government is working closely with Turkey.
		And so to pretend that the new security forces kind of turned over whatever flag was on their uniform and suddenly there's no threat of terrorism against Americans or allies is really, really silly.
		All of this is going to have to be done with tremendous caution because, again, to pretend that the Syrian president, Ahmed al-Shara, is suddenly a Muslim moderate.
		I'm waiting to see the evidence on that one, truly.
		It seems more like he is mouthing moderation to the West while simultaneously making common cause with Taib Rasip Erdogan, the dictator of Turkey, and also continuing to hug close many of his former ISIS colleagues who have now joined him inside the Syrian government.
		So listen, hope for the best in Syria, but remain skeptical.
		Seems to be the best idea.
		Navy Admiral Brad Cooper, the top U.S. commander in the region, visited Damascus in September with Tom Barrick, U.S. ambassador in Turkey and special envoy to Syria to thank Shara for his support in fighting militants.
		Shara had officially joined the U.S.-led coalition against ISIS during his White House meeting with Trump.
		That, of course, is after he sort of broke with ISIS.
		It is worth noting here that Tom Barrick, the ambassador in Turkey, is extraordinarily pro-Turkey.
		He is also extraordinarily pro-Shara.
		And so, in the words that come out of Tom Barak, I think we can take with a grain of salt.
		President Trump lashed out at ISIS for the killing of the Americans and promised retaliation.
		Here's the president's response.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		So we mourn the loss of three great patriots in Syria.
		You know how it happened.
		We also have three wounded that seem to be doing pretty well.
		So we mourn the loss.
		These are great, three great people.
		And it's just a terrible thing.
		Syria, by the way, was fighting along with us.
		The president, the new president of Syria, is, as they told me, and I'm not surprised, he's devastated by what happened.
		This was an ISIS attack on us and Syria.
		And again, we mourn the loss and we pray for them and their parents and their loved ones.
		Very, very sad.
unidentified		Mr. President will have U.S. retaliate against ISIS.
		Yeah, we will.
		And we'll go ahead and attack again.
		You're going to be so serious.
		And just a few of these.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		We will retaliate.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
ben shapiro ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so it'll be interesting to see what happens from here.
		Alrighty, meanwhile, horrible story out of Los Angeles.
		Director Rob Reiner, who, of course, is incredibly famous for a wide variety of terrific movies, ranging from The Princess Bride to When Harry Met Sally to This is Spinal Tap, Misery, A Few Good Men.
		He had a kind of a historic run in the late 80s, early 90s.
		He's also the son of Karl Reiner, one of the great Hollywood comedians.
		He was found dead in his home with his wife, Michelle Singer, of what police are calling a homicide, a truly horrifying story.
		Truly, truly terrible.
		He was 78.
		She was 68.
		According to the family spokesperson, it is with profound sorrow we announced the tragic passing of Michelle and Rob Reiner.
		We're heartbroken by the sudden loss.
		We asked for privacy during this unbelievably difficult time.
		Apparently, the police are conducting a death investigation.
		There is suspicion that a family member is involved.
		Obviously, when you're talking about the death of anyone, the murder of anyone who is a fellow American, politics go by the wayside, and they always should.
		They really, really should.
		Rob Reiner may have disagreed with conservatives on politics, but who cares?
		What difference does that make?
		It's a horrifying tragedy.
		It's truly terrible.
		A family member is being held for questioning.
		Again, they were apparently murdered according to TMZ.
		They were found dead from knife wounds.
		Detectives are treating the incident as a double homicide.
		Investigators are, in fact, quizzing an unnamed family member.
		The couple's daughter lives across the street and made the discovery, which is just awful.
		The Reiners had a son, Nick, 30 to a screenwriter, who has apparently struggled with drug addiction and bouts of homelessness as well.
		Truly awful stuff.
		And our prayers go out to the Reiner family.
		Just, ugh, just what a horrifying, what a horrifying end to a truly great artist.
		We'll get some more on this in a moment.
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		And meanwhile, in domestic political news, the debate goes on with regard to Obamacare and extensions of Democratic subsidies.
		On Friday, House Republicans unveiled a health care bill that they will bring to a vote next week, including items that are broadly popular in the party, like cost-sharing reductions and reforms to the pharmacy benefit manager industry.
		It does not include extension of those Obamacare subsidies that Joe Biden put into place.
		He put these gigantic extensions of Obamacare subsidies into place during the late stages of the pandemic, and then he left them in place and now they are set to expire.
		And then Democrats are blaming Republicans for the fact that Joe Biden decided to create this massive new subsidy scheme that sunsets.
		House GOP leaders will allow an amendment vote on extending those Obama subsidies, according to a GOP leadership aide.
		That is a concession to moderates who'd been calling to go on the record on the matter.
		Unclear what that amendment is going to look like.
		A House Republican leadership ed said, we expect there will be an amendment that is being worked on.
		So the process will allow for that amendment.
		So this could be the House allowing for the possibility of an expanded Obamacare subsidy at the same time as there are changes to things like cost-sharing reductions and reforms to that pharmacy benefit manager industry, which adds some cost between the middlemen.
		Bill Cassidy, senator from Louisiana, on Sunday, expressed some cautious optimism that there would be a compromise to extend those Obamacare subsidies for a select group of Americans before the subsidies expire at the end of the year.
		Senator Cassidy appeared on CBS News' Face the Nation to discuss the possibility of a deal.
bill cassidy ▲ ● ▼		We've got to do something for affordability for the people in the exchanges.
		And I will say that the only thing that Democrats would accept was something that would decrease the premiums.
		But if a family has a $6,000 out-of-pocket before they get into the strength of the insurance plan, then frankly, the policy is catastrophic.
		It brings profit to the insurance company, but not benefit to the patient.
		So I would argue that it actually is, there has to be a meeting of the minds between Democrats and Republicans.
		Let's acknowledge you've got to put cash in the patient's pocket to pay the out-of-pocket.
		I would be willing to do a short-term extension of the premium tax credits for those people with higher premiums if they will concede that we've got to do something for the $6,000 out-of-pocket.
		I think there's a deal to be had here.
		We need to push for that deal.
ben shapiro ▲ ● ▼		So why exactly is that deal not happening?
		Republicans are willing to make a compromise on the Obamacare subsidies, at least temporarily, in exchange for, for example, some health savings account to be set up that will eventually, we would hope, replace those Obamacare subsidies.
		Why isn't a deal happening?
		Cassidy said the Democrats are holding it up.
margaret brennan ▲ ● ▼		Do you need more White House help on this?
		And sir, you're running out of time here.
		Do you really think you can get this done before January 1st?
bill cassidy ▲ ● ▼		Our problem is not with Republicans.
		Our problem has been with Democrats.
		But of course, they may say that about us.
		So what I am kind of searching for is a deal in which both have their concerns addressed.
		If you do that and you put this in place, you really have until the end of like March to get it done because with these kind of accounts that people have money in, they just save the receipts, they submit them, and they get reimbursed.
		It happens what we do in my family.
		We have a flexible spending account.
		And so we can get this done, and I think we can meet the concerns both about the out-of-pocket, but also about the premium.
ben shapiro ▲ ● ▼		So what precisely will Republicans get in this deal?
ben shapiro ▲ ● ▼		Presumably, Cassidy said there have to be some terms that cut out the amount of Obamacare fraud, which is pretty significant.
dana bash ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that the Republicans, the ones that you talked to, would go for anything that does extend the premium help?
bill cassidy ▲ ● ▼		It has to have reforms to cut out the fraud.
		There's an estimated billions of dollars in fraud the way the current system is currently constructed.
		But if you address the fraud and particularly you address the fact that the premiums being pushed, should be the policies being pushed, have $6,000 deductibles.
		Again, it's more about profit for the insurance company than protection for the patient.
		If we do that, I think there could be interest in a short-term extension.
unidentified		I think that could be the deal.
ben shapiro ▲ ● ▼		And so it'll be interesting to see whether that indeed happens.
		What Cassidy is suggesting is probably the most politically palatable thing for Republicans if they don't wish to lose a bunch of purple swing state seats in the midterm elections if the Obamacare subsidies were to expire and those prices were to rise and Democrats threw that at Republicans.
		It'd be very difficult for Republicans in purple states to be able to defend themselves.
		And so, of course, political considerations have come to sort of center stage in all of this.
		Meanwhile, a lot of controversy remains over the Trump tariffs.
		The Trump administration is interested in finalizing tariff payments.
		According to Politico, the Trump administration is racing to deposit the money it has raised from tariffs into the U.S. Treasury, a tactic that could make it harder for companies to get refunds for duties the Supreme Court may strike down in the coming months.
		So what they're trying to do is prevent, if the Supreme Court were to strike down these tariffs retroactively, they're trying to prevent companies from clawing back the amount that they paid to the federal government in tariffs.
		That has triggered a flurry of lawsuits in recent weeks with companies ranging from Costco to the canned tuna seller bumblebee looking to preserve access to potential refunds for tens of billions of dollars worth of tariff fees and it foreshadows the messy legal battles likely to play out if the Supreme Court strikes down the tariffs.
		Apparently, Trump's Customs and Border Protection Agency is denying requests to delay finalizing tariff payments and transferring the funds to Treasury.
		In fact, they are even fast-tracking the process.
		They suspect the Supreme Court might strike it down, and they are trying to grab as much tariff revenue as humanly possible.
		Typically, Customs and Border Protection grants a 314-day window after goods enter the U.S. to liquidate the tariffs and send money to the Treasury Department.
		Once that happens, importers can't challenge the tariff payment through routine customs correction.
		Instead, they have to go through a complex formal protest process and litigation.
		And apparently, the Trump administration is now trying to speed that up.
		So the Trump administration is very concerned the Supreme Court is going to strike down those tariffs.
		Kevin Hassett, chair of the National Council of Economic Advisors, who is now being considered for the chair of the Federal Reserve, he says that throwing out the tariffs would create a serious economic problem.
unidentified		The future of these tariffs, though, does hang in the balance right now, and the Supreme Court ultimately has to make the decision on this.
		If you had the opportunity to have the justices consider a version of this from your perspective, what is it that you would say to them?
		And how important is it that we keep these tariffs?
kevin hassett ▲ ● ▼		The tariffs have been working, and they've been really good for the American people.
		We've got about 4% growth right now.
		We've got inflation going down, and we've got the biggest reduction in a year-over-year deficit that you've ever seen.
		And if they were to throw the tariffs out, then they could create a really serious economic problem.
		Now, I want you to know that we study all eventualities of this White House.
		People shouldn't panic if they throw these things out, but they create a real problem because a lot of the tariff revenue has to be refunded to people, potentially, and that's very disruptive.
		And the law says that we're allowed to regulate trade, but it doesn't use the word tariff.
		And that's what the left is, you know, they're hanging everything on that one thing.
ben shapiro ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's not the left.
		I mean, let's be fair about this.
		The law does not say that the executive branch of the government is allowed to quote unquote regulate trade.
		Just as a general rule, that power belongs to Congress.
		It's in the legislative power.
		And when it comes to national emergencies, then there's the possibility of doing something on an emergency basis.
		But again, the authority being used to do these widespread tariffs on everything up to and including penguins in the Solomon Islands, that, of course, is a very shoddy legal case.
		I've been pointing that out since literally day one.
		Now, what will be the knock-on effects?
		Well, yeah, I mean, there will be some real problems as far as people trying to claw back the money that they paid to the federal government, especially because people already bought the products.
		So presumably the company then gets the payment for the product, and then they claw back the tax that they paid to the U.S. government.
		There is also the problem of what happens going forward to these tariff rates.
		Does the Trump administration go through another round of chaotic ministrations in an attempt to revive those tariffs through some sort of other executive authority?
		Then you get another set of lawsuits.
		As far as the sort of rosy view of tariffs, neither the rosy view nor the catastrophic view of tariffs has actually come to pass.
		Some of that is because of uncertainty about the implementation of tariffs in the first place, according to the Wall Street Journal, analyzing various factors as to what would happen in the aftermath of the tariffs.
		When it comes to employment, employment is the highest in four years.
		Some of that is probably due to the tariffs.
		Manufacturers have not been gaining jobs.
		However, the tariffs have not skyrocketed inflation.
		According to the Wall Street Journal, both Trump and economists largely missed the mark on inflation.
		Tariffs swiftly hit Americans' wallets as major retailers from Macy's to Best Buy raised prices in response to the duties.
		But the worst inflation fears have not yet come to pass because tariffs touch a narrow band of consumer prices.
		Housing and gasoline have helped keep overall inflation in check.
		Believe it or not, housing has actually been declining in pricing over the course of the last year.
		So has gasoline.
		Also, a lot of people have not actually lowered their prices in expectation that President Trump's going to shift his tariff policy because it's been up and down and all around.
		As far as tariff revenue, yes, the federal government has raised extraordinary tariff revenue, almost $200 billion in net customs duties collected on U.S. imports.
		Is that going to replace the income tax?
		Not even remotely close.
		However, as far as economic growth, in spite of the tariffs, economic growth has been really, really high.
		The third quarter GDP estimate is almost 4%, which is really, really high.
		And again, a huge amount of that is because so much of our investment is going into tech industries that really are not being affected by the tariffs in the same way.
		All the investment is going into AI, for example, AI development.
		Well, that's not affected by tariffs in remotely the same way.
		U.S. manufacturing activity has actually continued to contract.
		So contra, the White House, tariffs have not revived American manufacturing.
		Instead, U.S. factory activity has contracted for nine straight months.
		And as far as the trade balance, the trade balance basically looks kind of the same as it did before the tariffs.
		There was an immediate skyrocket, actually, of imports as people tried to beat the tariffs.
		And then what we've seen is that exports and imports have kind of remained similar to where they were before.
		So either the tariffs aren't big enough or they haven't been promoted heavily enough or they haven't been implemented strictly enough.
		And so you're kind of getting a mixed bag with regard to tariffs.
		But will there be some chaos in the economy if the tariffs are struck down by the Supreme Court, which, by the way, I think will happen?
		I mean, sure, there will be some chaos.
		Will it be solved?
		Yes, it will be.
		And again, I think there's a case to be made that if the tariffs go away, you're going to get a boom economy.
		You already have an economy that is basically on the verge of booming if people had any level of predictability as to what happens next.
		Kevin Hassett says we're on the verge of perhaps the greatest economy in American history.
unidentified		If you had a crystal ball and you looked to the very end of President Trump's second term in office, where would you expect to see this economy?
kevin hassett ▲ ● ▼		I think that we're already right on the cusp of having the greatest economy that the U.S. has ever seen.
		I think that Trump policies are about as good as it gets.
		I think that there's never been a time in American history where policy was more perched to make growth really, really high.
		And the fact that that's happening precisely when we're getting this big positive supply shock from artificial intelligence means that you could easily have 4% or 5% growth for the entire Trump term, which would be obviously the best four years in history, really.
		And so I think that that's my core expectation.
		And I think that this will go down in history as a golden age.
ben shapiro ▲ ● ▼		Now, you know, his mouth to God's ears.
		Obviously, a booming economy would be fantastic for the country and also fantastic for the Republican Party.
		Okay, meanwhile, on Ukraine, the pressure has been almost universally on Ukraine from the United States to end the war, despite the fact that, again, it's really about the security guarantees that the West hands to Ukraine as to whether Ukraine even has the capacity to make a move like that.
		According to the Wall Street Journal, President Trump's top envoys held five hours of talk with Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky in Berlin on Sunday.
		Washington hailed progress as the administration steps up more pressure on Ukraine to seal a peace deal with Russia by year end.
		Now, again, what is Russia willing to give up?
		I'm just going to keep asking that question until we get any sort of answer at all.
		Is there an answer?
		What is the sacrifice Russia is making?
		Anyone?
		Bueller?
		Bueller?
		Ukraine is balking at Washington's call to withdraw its forces from areas that Kyiv's forces still hold.
		So the call is for Ukraine to surrender territory that Russia hasn't even won.
		European and Ukrainian officials are pushing for some clarity on what the U.S. would do if Russia were to break a peace deal and attack Ukraine.
		Well, yeah, that would be the biggest question considering that we did this routine in 2014 under Barack Obama.
		And then Russia walked right back in in 2022 under Joe Biden.
		After Sunday's talks ended in the late evening, the Trump administration's Russia envoy, Steve Woodko, said on X that the two sides held in-depth discussions on the peace plan.
		He said a lot of progress was made.
		They will meet again tomorrow Morning.
		One person briefed on Sunday's talks described them as difficult, saying the U.S. side appeared unwilling to compromise on its peace proposal draft.
		I think what's going to end up happening here is the Europeans are simply going to have to radically accelerate their support for Ukraine because the Trump administration looks ready to walk away.
		I think that's a terrible move.
		I think that incentivizing the Russians to be more aggressive, not only in the region, but globally, is a huge mistake.
		All this nonsense about Russia being a potential ally to the United States is just that.
		It is nonsense.
		If you read the speeches that Vladimir Putin has made in Russian to his own people, if you read the writings of Alexander Dugin, called Putin's brain by many, it is very clear that his vision for the future of Eastern Europe and for conflict with the United States is a dark vision.
		And pretending that appeasing Vladimir Putin is somehow going to amount to some sort of lasting peace with Vladimir Putin, that's a fool's errand.
		It really is.
		It was a fool's errand when Obama was trying it.
		It was a fool's errand when Joe Biden was trying it.
		And it's a fool's errand no matter who tries it, because Vladimir Putin has not changed, not one iota.
		His goals are exactly the same as they were when he took power.
		According to Axios, the proposal that is currently being made is a demilitarized zone with national security advisors of Ukraine, Germany, France, and the UK.
		Unclear exactly what that would trigger if Russia walked over that border.
		Typically, international security forces have totally failed.
		As soon as there's a major threat, countries simply withdraw their forces, and then the threatening force walks through.
		A U.S. official says there might be three separate agreements on peace: security guarantees, and reconstruction.
		Apparently, the negotiations over economic and reconstruction are going well, well, of course, because that's just a question of money.
		Several European leaders have been counseling Zelensky.
		He doesn't need to rush into a deal, especially one that forces him to cede territory Ukraine hasn't actually lost.
		And by the way, they're negotiating against themselves.
		Russia has not signaled that it accepts the deal.
		Turns out that negotiating against yourself is a pretty bad way to negotiate as a general rule.
		Alrighty, coming up, we'll jump into the mailbag as the show continues.
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tom sharp ▲ ● ▼		Oh, this is an illusion.
unidentified		An echo of a voice that has died.
unidentified		And soon that echo will cease.
tom sharp ▲ ● ▼		They say that Merlin is mad.
		They say he was a king and david, the son of a princess of lost Atlantis.
		They say the future and the past are known to him.
		The fire and the wind tell him their secrets.
		The magic of the hillfolk and druids come forth at his easy command.
		They say he slew hundreds.
		Hundreds, do you hear?
		That the world burned and trembled at his wrath.
unidentified		The Merlin died long before you and I were born.
tom sharp ▲ ● ▼		Merlin Emirus has returned to the land of the living.
unidentified		Vortigern is gone.
		Rum is gone.
		The Saxon is here.
tom sharp ▲ ● ▼		Saxon Hengist has assembled the greatest war host ever seen in the island of the mighty.
		And before the summer is through, he means to take the throne.
		And he will have it.
		If we are too busy squabbling amongst ourselves to take up arms against him, here is your hope.
		A king will arise to hold all Britain in his hand.
unidentified		A high king who would be the wonder of the world.
		You to a future of peace.
		There'll be no peace in these lands till we are all dust.
		Men of the island of the mighty, you stand together.
		You stand as Britons.
		You stand as one.
tom sharp ▲ ● ▼		Great darkness is falling upon this land.
unidentified		These brothers are our only hope to stand against it.
tom sharp ▲ ● ▼		Not our only hope.
unidentified		Esay Merthyn slew 70 men with his own hands.
tom sharp ▲ ● ▼		And Cathay, he slew 500.
unidentified		No man is capable of such a thing.

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