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Dec. 7, 2023 - The Ben Shapiro Show
58:15
The Fourth Republican FIGHT NIGHT
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Last night's fourth Republican debate will likely end up as a footnote in presidential history.
Donald Trump, who's leading the race by leaps and bounds, wasn't on the stage.
The debate aired on NewsNation rather than Fox News, so the viewership is likely to be a lot lower than the prior debates.
But in some ways, the debate was by far the most interesting debate of the race.
It was interesting for a few reasons.
First, it showed that governance actually matters.
The battle between Ron DeSantis and Nikki Haley, who are the top two candidates fighting for a distant second place behind Trump, Is a battle over policy positions sure?
The debate exposed serious differences of position on social issues, for example, Warren Haley has posed as more moderate and DeSantis is more conservative.
But DeSantis' main advantage against Haley, an advantage he thought would carry him further than it has in the polling so far, is that he can point at his accomplishments and contrast them with the empty words of his opponents.
In a normal world, DeSantis would be running away with this nomination.
DeSantis is by far the most conservative candidate who can win on the stage, has a record of victory in Florida.
There were four candidates on the stage last night.
Ron DeSantis, Nikki Haley, Chris Christie, and for some odd reason, Vivek Ramaswamy, who is still in the race.
But DeSantis is by far the most classically conservative person on the stage.
Here, for example, was Ron DeSantis talking about Calvin Coolidge, who was Ronald Reagan's favorite president.
Reagan, Washington, Lincoln, excellent.
One of the guys I'll take inspiration from is Calvin Coolidge.
People don't talk about him a lot.
He's one of the few presidents that got almost everything right.
He understood the proper role of the federal government under the Constitution.
We need to restore the US Constitution as the centerpiece of our national life.
And that requires a president who understands the original understanding of the Constitution, who has a good sense of the Bill of Rights, and who knows how we've gone off track with this massive fourth branch of government Well, again, that's pretty solidly conservative stuff, but the main differentiating point for DeSantis versus, for example, Haley, is over their actual governance style.
knew the proper role of the federal government.
The country was in great shape when he was president of the United States
and we can learn a lot from Calvin Coolidge.
Well, again, that's pretty solidly conservative stuff, but the main differentiating point for DeSantis
versus for example, Haley, is over their actual governance style.
So last night, the question of transgenders using particular bathrooms came up.
Nikki Haley suggested that DeSantis was soft on the issue and DeSantis pounded her on it.
And And this shows how hypocritical Ron continues to be.
When he was running for governor and they asked him about that, he said he didn't think bathroom bills were a good use of his time.
You can go look that up.
I signed a bathroom bill in Florida, so that's obviously not true.
So, the idea that you would say that I was against that... I signed it.
You didn't.
You killed it.
I signed it.
I stood up for little girls.
You didn't do it.
And there was this going on.
I was actually just in South Carolina.
Some of the legislators told me at the time there were boys going into the girls.
That's the whole reason why they did it.
And so they say when she does that explanation that that doesn't hold water.
And this is the upstate of South Carolina.
I signed the bill.
I protected the girls.
Do you know South Carolinians?
She did not do it.
I know that.
That obviously is a strong differentiating point for DeSantis.
And again, he thought that that was going to be the main part of this campaign, was that even the stuff that Trump has talked about doing, DeSantis has actually done in the state of Florida.
However, this brings us to the second point.
Second, the debate showed that Donald Trump is still the dominant force on the right.
That's because of all the stocked up goodwill he has from his tenure as 2016 candidate, beating Hillary Clinton, and as president, where he's pretty conservative.
And because his one true point of electoral vulnerability, Trump's point of electoral vulnerability, is the fact that he already lost to Joe Biden in 2020.
But that has now been obscured both by the media's election malfeasance in 2020, The fact that, for example, the Hunter Biden laptop story was covered up.
The fact that all the voting rules were changed by the Democrats in the lead up to the 2020 election.
The fact that we had a 20 million vote spike in the number of votes between 2016 and 2020.
And, mostly, by Joe Biden's awful poll numbers right now.
If the argument is that Trump is unelectable, then the real clear politics polling average, which puts Trump ahead of Biden right now, is very difficult to overcome.
That's why attacks from Ron DeSantis against Trump fell flat.
Here was DeSantis going after Trump last night.
Look, he is showing, father time is undefeated.
The idea that we're going to put someone up there that's almost 80 and there's going to be no effects from that, we all know that that's not true.
And so we have an opportunity to do a next generation of leaders and really be able to move this country forward.
We also need a president that can serve two terms.
I don't think Donald Trump, I think he's going to have a, I don't think he'd be able to get elected.
The Democrats want him to be the nominee.
We see that.
They are going to turn the screws the minute, if he got the nomination, you're going to see it.
Now, DeSantis happens to be correct.
Democrats still believe that Trump is the most beatable nominee for the Republicans, no matter what the polls say.
The problem is, when the polls have Trump up on Biden, as they do right now, when Donald Trump is in the best polling position of his career, actually, better than any time in 2016, better than any time in 2020, the electoral argument is a hard case to make.
In one second, we will get to the third point that we take away from the debate first.
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Okay.
And this leads us to the third point of the debate.
There is no reservoir of anger at Trump among Republicans.
So, DeSantis was trying to go after Trump on the basis that Trump is too old or that he can't win.
The problem is that Trump is running against a person who is even older and right now he's leading in the polls.
But the other attack on Trump, which is that he would be quote unquote unfit for the presidency, is something Republicans do not believe.
There is no reservoir of anger at Trump over his erratic and often awful behavior itself.
Only if that behavior threatens electoral viability do Republicans become queasy.
Republicans have essentially decided, I think rightly given the nature of today's politics, that we are well beyond questions of civility.
Many of us have decided that if the most plausible candidate happens to be the guy who tweets dumb stuff and makes jokes about becoming a dictator, jokes, by the way, that really underscore the fact that every single president since Barack Obama has used executive power in dictatorial fashion, we don't really care.
We may not like the stuff that Donald Trump did between November and January of 2021.
But if the alternative is Joe Biden using his own dictatorial power to, say, make OSHA cram a vax down on 80 million people, Or Joe Biden, using dictatorial power to essentially keep the border open.
Well, we will pick our own giant pulsating middle finger, thank you very much.
That means that Chris Christie's attacks on Trump, which is that Trump is unfit for the presidency, those fell flat.
Republicans are treating Donald Trump like generic Republican.
And weirdly, so are Democrats at this point.
So, when Christie attacked DeSantis and said, why won't you answer whether Trump is fit or not?
DeSantis is smart enough not to play the game.
DeSantis knows that if he says that Trump is unfit, all of Trump's voters don't like DeSantis then.
But what Christie is attempting to do is point out, I think correctly, that the Republican Party, so long as it thinks Trump is fit, is likely to nominate Trump.
That's true.
Here's Christie.
Why isn't he just answering the question?
The question was very direct.
Is he fit to be president or isn't he?
The rest of the speech is interesting, but completely non-responsive.
And if we were in a courtroom, they'd strike the answer and say, Governor DeSantis, you're a smart man.
No they wouldn't.
They would strike the answer because you're not You have your thing.
You have your thing.
No, I don't have my thing.
He's the thing.
Is he fit or isn't he?
We do not want to do someone that's almost 80.
It doesn't mean that somebody couldn't get elected.
That's what the people did.
Governor DeSantis left.
No, Governor DeSantis left.
Ron, I think we have an opportunity to do somebody who is in the prime of their life.
We don't have to worry about all this stuff with Ron in it.
We can get it done and we'll do it.
I'm going to come to you.
Finish.
Look, Father Time is undefeated.
I don't know how he would score on a test, but I know this.
We have an opportunity to nominate someone and elect someone for two terms who's going to be spitting nails on day one and for eight years deliver you big results.
We should not nominate somebody who's almost 80 years old.
He's afraid to answer.
Okay, now, Christie is right that DeSantis will not answer.
He's correct that DeSantis won't answer.
Why?
Because Republicans don't think that Trump is unfit.
Period.
End of story.
When Christie says things like, they're afraid to talk about Voldemort, it just underscores the fact that Christie is running a revenge campaign.
I mean, let's be real about this.
The problem is that Christie is not a viable alternative to Trump.
So if he's going to attack Trump this way, then you start looking at Christie.
Well, there's one problem.
That's not going to wash.
Here was Christie doing his let's attack Trump routine.
Look Megan, it's often very difficult to be the only person on the stage who's telling the truth, and the only person who is taking on what needs to be taken on.
I look at my watch now, we're 17 minutes into this debate, and except for your little speech in the beginning, we've had these three acting as if the race is between the four of us.
The fifth guy, who doesn't have the guts to show up and stand here, He's the one who, as you just put it, is way ahead in the polls.
And yet, I've got these three guys who are all seemingly to compete with, you know, Voldemort.
He shall not be named.
They don't want to talk about it.
Now, again, Christie is right that he's the only person who's willing to really go after Trump.
But there's a problem.
He bullied Trump in 2016.
He ended up working for him.
Don't you remember the video of Trump saying to him, Chris, go get on the plane?
And here's the other problem.
Christie is not an alternative to Trump on policy.
Here he was last night, for example, on sexual mutilation surgery for minors.
How is it that you think a parent should be able to okay these surgeries, never mind the sterilization of a child?
And aren't you way too out of step on this issue to be the Republican nominee?
No, I'm not.
Because Republicans believe in less government, not more.
In less involvement with government, not more involvement in people's lives.
And you know what, Megan?
I trust parents.
And we're out there saying that we should empower parents in education.
We should empower parents to make more decisions about where their kids go to school.
I agree.
We should empower parents to be teaching the values that they believe in, in their homes, without the government telling them what those values should be.
And yet, we want to take other parental rights away.
I'm sorry.
As a father of four, I believe there is no one who loves my children more than me.
Okay, that's true.
No one loves your children more than you.
But also, there are things called child abuse.
And if you love your kid, but you smack your kid in the head with a brick every day, well, that's illegal.
Cutting off your kid's genitals should be as well.
Fourth, the debate showed that these campaigns, unfortunately, have become opportunities for additional exposure for the marginal candidates.
And the best way to exploit that opportunity is to run directly toward Twitter slash X. And as the polls show, X is not real life.
Now, listen, I personally know three of the four candidates on stage.
I've never met Christy.
I know Ron DeSantis.
He's a straightforwardly good guy.
His wife is a delight.
Really nice family.
I know Nikki, who is personally, again, a delightful human being.
I know her kids as well.
And I know Vivek.
We'll get to Vivek in just one second.
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One of the things that we've learned from these debates, again, is that these debates can be an excellent platform for becoming more famous.
And that's Vivek.
Again, I know Vivek.
Super nice guy.
Brilliant.
Incredibly personable.
Really charming.
Glib as hell.
I'd say he's a salesman's salesman.
Which is how he made his money.
Right?
He was essentially the guy who was fundraising for a publicly traded pharmaceutical company.
That's fine.
That's totally cool.
He is also chameleonic.
He has been throughout the race.
He's been trying to play Trump's game.
Say the unsayable.
Except the things he's saying are less unsayable now because Trump has been in the game saying those things for a long time.
Now the problem is, as the realm of the unsayable decreases, that means that Vivek has to chase the realm of the unsayable.
And that means the realm of the unsayable is shrinking into the more and more marginal viewpoints.
And so Vivek, if he wants to keep up with the unsayable candidate thing, he has to chase
the realm of the unsayable and that's what he's been doing.
So last night, here was one of his listicles of unsayable ideas.
He does these on Twitter, by the way.
He'll just tweet out like seven unsayable ideas, six of which are kind of wrote inside
the Republican Party and one of which is usually a little bit odd.
Here he was last night.
All three of them have been licking Donald Trump's boots for years for money and endorsements.
Ron DeSantis, you've been a great governor, but you would have never been one without actually begging Donald Trump for that endorsement.
And you attacked him in your book a year ago.
Same thing with Chris Christie as a lobbyist.
He's begging them for COVID money for his special interests in New Jersey, prepping him for the debates last time around.
These people are now Monday morning quarterbacking some decision he made.
I think the real enemy is not Donald Trump.
It's not even Joe Biden.
It is the deep state that at least Donald Trump attempted to take on.
And if you want somebody who's going to speak truth to power, then vote for somebody who's going to speak the truth to you.
Why am I the only person on the stage, at least, who can say that January 6th now does look like it was an inside job?
That the government lied to us for 20 years about Saudi Arabia's involvement in 9-11.
That the Great Replacement Theory is not some grand right-wing conspiracy theory, but a basic statement of the Democratic Party's platform.
That the 2020 election was indeed stolen by big tech.
That the 2016 election, the one that Trump won for sure, was also one that was stolen from him by the national security establishment.
That actually put up the Trump-Russia collusion hoax that they knew was false.
There's a reason why I'm the only person on the stage who can say these things.
That's what it's going to take.
Not people who were licking his boots one time and now Monday morning quarterbacking and criticizing when it's convenient.
Saying the unsayable, saying the unsayable.
Except that a lot of that stuff isn't really unsayable.
When you say that the 2016 election, the results were thwarted by the so-called deep state, pretty much every Republican believes that.
Literally all of us believe that the Russian hoax was a hoax promulgated by people inside the federal government who are promulgating false information.
The 2020 election was stolen by Big Tech.
If by that he means that Big Tech put its thumb on the scales for Joe Biden, we all believe that.
That's obviously true.
That's not saying the unsayable.
Literally everyone on stage will say that.
However, what he will do, he'll then put all of that in a sandwich with January 6th was an inside job.
I'm not sure what he means by January 6th was an inside job.
Does he mean that somehow the Trump administration, which was in power at the time, Worked with the protesters?
Does he mean that it was Nancy Pelosi working with the protesters who are coming into the Capitol building?
Does he just mean that there were police officers who opened the doors, which obviously is true after the riots were already in progress?
January 6th wasn't a quote-unquote inside job in the sense that no one committed criminal activity.
It's true the prosecution of some of the people who are in the Capitol is clearly excessive.
But inside job?
When he says that the government lied to us for years about 9-11, What he means is that one of the people who housed 9-11 hijackers was a member of the Saudi intelligence service and that was revealed in a report in 2021.
But he's making a broader claim than that when he says that the Great Replacement Theory is real.
That's a term with semantic overload because it has been used by white supremacists as a buzzword for replacement of whites by minorities, including Jews, and specifically Jews crafting this entire system in order to replace white people.
That's what people were chanting at, for example, Charlottesville when they said, Jews will not replace us.
They weren't worried about the invasion of hundreds of millions of Jews.
They were suggesting that Jews were presiding over the system of immigration.
But it is true that the Democratic Party has talked for 20 years about the changing demographics of the country, facilitating a permanent Democratic electoral majority.
So Vivek wants to win points for audacity.
But let's be real, he's really not saying anything that Tucker Carlson hasn't been saying better for longer.
In reality, Vivek, like Trump, needs an opponent.
In a vacuum, a lot of his viewpoints don't make all that much sense.
He's been on most sides of a wide variety of issues, but that also gives him leeway to fire at all the candidates from every other side of every other issue.
So last night, Vivek's target was mainly Nikki Haley, whom he perceives as his candidate of differentiation because she is the quote-unquote mainstream candidate.
DeSantis is popular at the base.
Nikki Haley is not nearly as popular with the base.
So Vivek was going to go after her using the same angle Trump himself used in 2016 against the so-called interventionists in the Republican Party.
Now, there are a few problems with this.
The biggest problem is that the right has always been divided between hawks and isolationists.
Going back to George H.W.
Bush versus, for example, Pat Buchanan.
And before that, Charles Lindbergh versus the rest of the Republican Party.
In the pre-World War II era, the isolationists on the right generally had their way.
In the post-World War II era, the hawks had their way on the right.
In the aftermath of the Iraq war, it's an open question who wins this battle, but as the world grows more dangerous, isolationists tend to actually lose sway.
The most obvious line of attack for Republicans against Joe Biden on foreign policy, for example, isn't that he is too interventionist.
It's that he's weak, that he's waffling, that he surrenders in Afghanistan, that he sends mixed signals, that our enemies can see all of that and they are taking advantage.
We'll get to the foreign policy issues that are being raised by Vivek in just one second, because they're kind of fascinating.
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Hey, so when it comes to foreign policy, Vivek launched a bunch of attacks on Nikki Haley last night.
Those attacks are generally from the isolationist right, which is very similar to the isolationist left.
The problem is, that doesn't really line up with the Republican perspective, writ large, on Joe Biden.
Joe Biden is weak.
It's not that Joe Biden is too muscular in foreign policy, it's that he's too weak, even in Ukraine.
The problem for Biden is that he refused to choose an actual line.
Either you have to give Ukraine the weaponry necessary to actually smash Russia in the Donbass and Crimea, or you have to find an off-ramp and pursue it.
Biden's choice, as always, is neither.
That's always his choice, is, what if I just, you know, sit here and be a vegetable?
But when it comes to Israel, the attack on Biden isn't that he's too pro-Israel.
From the right, it's that he enabled Iran, delisted the Houthis as a terrorist organization, fostered more funding for the Palestinian Authority and the UNRWA, which means Hamas, and now is trying to handcuff Israel in its ability to finish off a genocidal anti-Jewish terrorist group.
So, when Vivek, for example, attacks Nikki Haley for being too pro-Israel, that generally doesn't go over that well with the crowd that's not on X. Here he was last night doing just that.
What happened to Israel was dead wrong.
What Hamas did was medieval.
It was subhuman.
It was immoral.
And we have to call that out for what it is on October 7th.
But to say that that was an attack on America fails a basic test.
I mean, Nick, if you can't tell the difference between where Israel is and the U.S.
is on a map, I can have my three-year-old son show you the difference.
Now, that's a silly argument.
Obviously, Israel isn't in America, and the interests of the United States are not always the interests of Israel and vice versa.
But suggesting that Haley holds some sort of dual loyalty is asinine, and the crowd knew, which is why that attack fell flat, even if the fever swamps of X cheer on this sort of silly posturing.
Likewise, the internet cheered Vivek quizzing Nikki Haley on the provinces of the Donbass region in Ukraine.
The people on X say, oh, this ends Nikki Haley.
Here was Vivek doing this routine.
I want to say one thing about the tie to Ukraine, if I may.
So foreign policy experience is not the same as foreign policy wisdom.
I want everybody at home to know that I was the first person to say we need a reasonable peace deal in Ukraine.
Now a lot of the neocons are quietly coming along to that position, with the exceptions of Nikki Haley and Joe Biden, who still support this, what I believe is pointless war in Ukraine.
And I think those with foreign policy experience, one thing that Joe Biden and Nikki Haley have in common is that neither of them could even state for you three provinces in eastern Ukraine that they want to send our troops to actually fight for.
Look at that.
This is what I want people to understand.
These people have... I mean, she has no idea what the hell the names of those provinces are, but she wants to send our sons and daughters and our troops and our military equipment to go fight it.
So reject this myth that they've been selling you, that somebody had a cup of coffee stint at the UN and then makes 8 million bucks after, has real foreign policy experience.
It takes an outsider to see this through.
Look at the blank expression.
She doesn't know the names of the provinces that she wants to actually fight for.
And there's a puppet minister right there, the donors.
The donor's right there!
Enough!
Okay, hold on, hold on.
Couple of things to note about Vivek's point here.
One, Nikki has never called for putting troops into Ukraine.
No Republican candidate has.
Literally zero of them.
In fact, Haley's entire point is that you fund Ukraine so you don't have to put troops into Ukraine or any of the surrounding countries that would presumably be threatened if Russia were to take Kiev.
So he's completely misstating her position to suggest the sort of isolationist notion that we are going to send American boys and girls over to die for territories far away.
She has not suggested that.
No one has suggested that.
But it's worth noting that Haley did in fact, after this, name two of the three provinces correctly after the question.
She said Crimea instead of Kharkiv.
She said Donetsk and Luhansk.
Here's the reality.
Most Americans don't know the answer to this particular question.
That lack of knowledge isn't actually dispositive as to what American action should look like in any particular region.
This is a very tried and true attack line, and it doesn't tend to score a lot of points in the real world.
Why?
Well, because Geography B quizzes are a quick and easy way for isolationists to score a really cheap and easy point.
Quick!
Name all the provinces of East China.
You can't?
And how can you criticize China over its COVID-19 policies or oppose an invasion of Taiwan?
Can you name every province in all of China?
But these sorts of attacks don't actually work.
In 1999, George W. Bush was asked by a reporter to name the leaders of Taiwan, India, Pakistan, and Chechnya.
He responded, Can you name the foreign minister of Mexico?
Bush won the election.
Americans don't need you to be an encyclopedia.
They needed to make the right decision when you are pressed.
And that decision comes from baseline worldview, not a quick search of the Google machine.
That's why Trump became president.
Do you think Trump could name like 10 other countries off the top of his head outside of Europe?
But being right isn't the point of a Vicks campaign.
It's oppositionality.
That's literally the whole point of the campaign.
That's why he went so hard at Haley, not just on policy, but personally.
In the most conspiratorial of ways, by the way.
He accused her of bad faith, of fascism, of fakery.
It was pretty ugly.
It was vague comparing Nikki Haley to Kamala Harris.
I don't question her faith, but I question her authenticity.
And I think that's deeper here.
We were just talking about the trans issue.
This is a symptom of a deeper cancer in American life.
Identity politics.
This new religion that says your race, your gender and your sexuality are your identity.
It is anti-American.
It is meritocratic, it's anti-meritocratic, and it is dividing this country to a breaking point.
And I've spoken about this to the left.
My books are all about this.
I've preached this to the left.
But it's even worse when Republicans try to play the same game.
We're talking about that trans issue.
Nikki Haley's campaign launch video sounded like a woke Dylan Mulvaney Bud Light ad talking about how she would kick in heels.
At the first debate, she said that only a woman can get this job done.
That's what she said.
After the third debate, when I criticized Ronna McDaniel after five failed years of leadership of this party, and criticized Nikki for her corrupt foreign dealings as a military contractor, she said that I have a woman problem.
Nikki, I don't have a woman problem.
You have a corruption problem.
And I think that that's what people need to know.
Nikki is corrupt.
This is a woman who will send your kids to die so she can buy a bigger house.
This is the problem.
Using identity politics more effectively than Kamala Harris is a form of intellectual fraud.
And it actually needs to end.
There's our donor puppet masters, wielding their puppet right up here tonight.
This is how this game is played.
The puppet masters put up their puppet, and I reject the use of identity politics in this party.
It has been a cancer coming from the left, and I'm sick and tired of the double standards the people of this country are to.
Having two X chromosomes does not immunize you from criticism.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Governor Haley, would you like to respond?
No.
It's not worth my time to respond to him.
I mean, she happens to be right about that.
I'm sorry, when you hold up a giant piece of paper that just says, Nikki equals corrupt, you look like a child.
You look like an idiot.
It's ridiculous.
It's ridiculous.
Again, the notion that Nikki Haley's views have somehow magically changed because after she left office, she worked with Boeing.
It's silly.
That's like suggesting that Vivek Ramaswamy's views have changed because he once worked with Big Pharma and made all his money off of Big Pharma.
I mean, it's a dumb attack line.
It's a really dumb attack line.
But that wasn't his dumbest attack line of the night.
He actually then attacked Nikki Haley as a quote-unquote fascist.
Why is Nikki Haley a fascist?
Because she disagrees with him on foreign policy.
Nikki Haley was heaping praise on me when I wrote that book, but now I worry I was warning about the woke industrial complex in this country as a warning.
Apparently she read it as a how-to manual, just like she reads George Orwell's books as well.
And so I think that that's actually far more dangerous than... This is really important for people to understand.
We're marching towards fascism under Biden.
Jack Smith has subpoenaed Every last retweet that someone has issued from Donald Trump in the year 2020, the only person more fascist than the Biden regime now is Nikki Haley, who thinks the government should identify every one of those individuals with an ID.
That is not freedom.
That is fascism.
She's wrong on the social media issue and anonymity.
But saying that she is a fascist, more fascist than Joe Biden, is silly.
Listen, Vivek isn't running for president.
He was really never running for president.
He hasn't been running for president this whole time.
He's currently polling at less than 5% nationally.
He's not breaking 10% in any state.
But he is capturing the hearts of people you need to launch a podcast or perhaps a Senate primary run.
He's also single-handedly making Chris Christie look at least somewhat entertaining and amusing.
Here's Christie on Vivek last night.
You do this at every debate.
You go out on the stump and you say something.
All of us see it on video.
We confront you out on the debate stage.
You say you didn't say it, and then you back away.
And I want to say... I'll tell you exactly what I said, Chris.
I'm not done yet.
Well, this is... Now, look... Hold on.
Hold on.
This is the fourth debate.
The fourth debate that you would be voted, in the first 20 minutes, as the most obnoxious blowhard in America.
So shut up!
I want to say something else.
We're now 25 minutes into this debate, and he has insulted Nikki Haley's basic intelligence.
Not her positions, her basic intelligence.
She doesn't know regions.
She wouldn't be able to find something on a map that his three-year-old could find.
Look, if you want to disagree on issues, that's fine.
And Nikki and I disagree on some issues.
But I'll tell you this, I've known her for 12 years, which is longer than he's even started to vote in a Republican primary.
And while we disagree about some issues and we disagree about who should be president of the United States, what we don't disagree on is, this is a smart, accomplished woman.
You should stop insulting her.
Okay, by the way, Christy not wrong there.
Again, what's amazing about Chris Christy is that he actually does have a lot of innate political talent, which is why he became governor of New Jersey.
He then misused it and blew it in every single way.
That wasn't the extent of Christy laying into Vivek last night after the debate.
He also laid into Vivek in the post-debate spin room.
I think Vivek does have a woman problem.
I do think he insults women's basic intelligence.
He's done it over and over and over again.
And I guess tonight, I just had had enough.
I had enough of listening to his garbage.
And as I said, his smart-ass Harvard mouth.
Because that's what it is, when he's dictating to me and Nikki Haley, who have committed ourselves to public service, while he's been off stealing from seniors to make his fortune.
Yeah, I'm not going to put up with him anymore.
Here's the thing.
X, Twitter, is not real life.
And Trumpism isn't really an ideology transferable to other neophyte candidates.
There is only Trump.
Trump is the only Trump.
We'll get to the last points on the debate in just one second.
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Okay, meanwhile...
Final note about last night's debate.
It showed that the gap between winning a primary campaign and winning a general election is indeed very real for Republicans.
By polling data, Nikki Haley is the Republican best positioned against Joe Biden.
DeSantis leads Biden by one in the RealClearPolitics polling average.
Donald Trump is up on Biden by a couple of points in the RealClearPolitics polling average.
Nikki Haley leads Joe Biden by five in the RealClearPolitics polling average.
In some polls, she's up by as much as ten points.
But aside from foreign policy, where Haley is a hawk's hawk, her positions are, in fact, moderate across the board, from abortion to gender surgery for minors.
Here she was last night walking back her stated position on gender surgery for the underage.
She said yesterday, as we played it on the show, that should be a question for parents.
Here she was trying to walk that back last night.
She said the law shouldn't get involved in that.
And I just ask you, if you're somebody that's going to be the President of the United States, and you can't stand up against child abuse, how are you going to be able to stand up for anything?
I never said that.
That is the truth.
I never said that.
We have it on video.
I said that if you have to be 18 to get a tattoo, you should have to be 18 to have anything done to change your gender.
OK, but that moderate position that she laid out yesterday is not a position that Republicans like because it's not a good position.
The Republican primary electorate is not in the mood for moderation.
You have to be either militant in policy or in affect, which is, again, why Trump, who is a moderate on many of the same policies, ironically, on which Haley is, is way out in front. He might be closer
to Haley on policy than he is even to DeSantis, but his affect is always militant. And let's be
frank about this, the Republican base is pissed off. Meanwhile, Joe Biden is betting that
Republican anger will backfire on Republicans the same way that it did in 2020. It's not a bad bet, by
the way, because when you look at what's happening in Congress, Republican militants may lose them
the House majority without even another election taking place.
So, last night, Kevin McCarthy, the former Speaker of the House, who was ousted by Matt Gaetz and company for literally no reason, Mike Johnson has now replaced McCarthy, and the House is running in exactly the same way that it was when McCarthy was the Speaker of the House.
So nothing has changed.
It was merely a petty grudge match between McCarthy and Gaetz, in which Gaetz decided to depose McCarthy, and McCarthy's like, you know what, I've had enough of this, and he is leaving.
He announced yesterday that at the end of his term, he was going to leave.
He says, no matter the odds or personal cost, we did the right thing.
This is what he wrote in the Wall Street Journal.
It is in this spirit I've decided to depart the House at the end of this year to serve America in new ways.
I know my work is only getting started.
There's one problem for Republicans.
They just ousted George Santos, who is a fraudster.
They just ousted him from Congress.
And that seat will likely go Democrat.
Kevin McCarthy's seat is going to be up for a special election.
Republicans currently hold 221 seats to Democrats 213.
That means they can afford three defections on party line votes.
With Santos out and McCarthy leaving by the end of the year, well, that means that the buffer dwindles to two votes as early as mid-February.
So that means that the Republican majority in the House is now two votes large.
So they better hope nobody dies.
Nobody has a skiing accident.
Kevin Hearn of Oklahoma, chair of the Republican Study Committee, he said it emboldens some individuals at any given time with a specific issue to hold up and stop the entire process.
Marjorie Taylor Greene, who has emerged as an actual Republican who wants to get things done, says, I think it makes everything harder.
That's everything from appropriations bills to impeachments to passing anything on the House floor.
Again, he was ousted for no reason and McCarthy's like, I've had it and I'm out.
And you're seeing a lot of Republicans who feel this way.
What's what's hilarious is that Democrats are looking at the upcoming election.
Many of them are retiring.
Many, many more Democrats are retiring in 2024 than Republicans leaving those seats open.
But Democrats are leaving because they see that Joe Biden is a weak candidate.
Republicans are leaving because they're tired of each other and they're annoyed by the false purity tests that they are engaging upon with each other.
So leave it to Republicans to steal defeat from the jaws of victory.
That is one thing they are good at.
And Democrats are counting on them to do that again.
That's precisely what Joe Biden is counting on.
So yesterday he was giving a speech, the president, and he said, I'm not the only person who can beat Trump, but I will defeat him.
That's following up on his comments.
Literally, the only reason he's running is because he thinks Trump is the nominee.
Any Democrat who could defeat Donald Trump other than you?
Probably 50 of them.
You do believe that there are?
I'm not the only one, but I will defeat him.
Who else do you think could defeat Donald Trump as president?
Bye. Door closes and he has to go to the bathroom or something. You know,
Jim Messina was one of his campaign managers. He says we can't take chances on anyone else
except for Joe Biden. Again, Democrats are just betting that Donald Trump is toxic enough that
he'll lose the election. They're not betting that Biden's going to win it. They're betting that
Donald Trump is going to lose it. Here's Messina yesterday.
He was not opening the door.
Joe Biden's going to be our nominee.
And, you know, there's lots of people that you and I both know, Andrew, who would love to run for that office.
But the truth is they're all unproven.
And with Donald Trump, we know that Joe Biden has beaten him the first time.
He'll beat him the second time.
And we just can't take the risk of an unknown candidate.
You know, these folks sometimes just aren't ready for primetime, as we saw with Sarah Palin, with Dan Quayle, with a whole bunch of things.
You're seeing right now with DeSantis, who was everyone's Bollywood national candidate in the spotlight, which is too great.
Donald Trump admitted last night, Andrea, that he will be a dictator on day one.
We just can't take a risk for that.
And that's why Joe Biden ran the first time.
And it's why he's running the second time.
Well, he ran a basement campaign last time and hit a bunch of factors in his favor, including a vast uptick in absentee voting that is not going to be repeated this time around.
And so again, the left is relying on Republicans basically running directly headlong.
It's not a horrible bet.
Republicans jump on rakes on a routine basis.
They're basically like that sideshow Bob clip from The Simpsons where he walks on every rake.
That's Republicans.
Is that a smart bet by Democrats?
Again, the way they think they're going to run against Donald Trump is by claiming that he is a fascist and a criminal.
So here's Morning Joe doing the fascist routine.
All of the right wing media has done.
They have gotten a son that had problems with crack.
They have chased down every lead they could chase down.
They make fools of themselves time and time again.
But it has worked.
They're lying about the corrupt Biden family.
Like Clarence Thomas's wife talking about the Biden crime family should be on barges outside of Gitmo.
Repeating this lie, this fascist attempt, this fascist lie over and over and over again.
You look at the polls.
It's worked.
So now half of Americans see Joe Biden as corrupt as Donald Trump.
When, of course, it's such a we could list it for four hours.
It is such a preposterous argument.
And yet, because fascists are so good at propaganda, it's actually working.
Just keep saying it over and over.
So just keep saying fascist over and over and over, that's going to win you the election.
I have serious, serious doubts that that is, in fact, the case.
And the reality is that, as I've said many times before, everything is baked into the cake with regard to Trump.
The only question is whether a criminal conviction is baked into the cake.
That is literally the only question left in this election cycle.
If Donald Trump is criminally convicted, which he likely will be in Washington, D.C., not because he's guilty of the crimes alleged, but because it's a Washington, D.C.
jury, if that happens, does that change the poll numbers in any market or serious way?
Or everyone already kind of assumes that that's the way that it's going to go?
Joe Biden was the default candidate in 2020.
Today, because Biden is really bad at this, Trump is the default candidate.
And that is a serious problem for Joe Biden and all the people shrieking fascist from the top of the Empire State Building.
It is not going to work.
Okay, in just one second, we'll get to the latest from Ukraine.
Where Democrats can't seem to make the obvious deal that is right in front of them.
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Okay.
Well, meanwhile, the Biden administration having a very tough time pulling the trigger on what is a very obvious deal.
So Republicans have basically said at this point, all right, fine.
You want your funding for Ukraine?
We'll give you your funding for Ukraine, even though we don't like it, if you give us some border security.
And Joe Biden is just fighting this thing tooth and nail.
He believes that he has a winning proposition with the American people by suggesting that Republicans are out of touch on Ukraine because they want some sort of off-ramp In Ukraine, that if Joe Biden screams freedom over and over without any plan, that this is somehow going to make everything all better.
That is not going to work.
So here is Joe Biden yesterday.
Again, the deal is in front of him.
The deal is in front of him.
Republicans in the Senate have said border security plus funding for Taiwan, plus funding for Israel, plus funding for Ukraine, and we'll do it.
And Joe Biden is threatening to veto that.
He's basically having his Democrats in the Senate block that bill.
And then he's gonna try and ram through his own naked Ukraine funding vehicle, presumably.
Without border security?
And he thinks that's a winning proposition for Americans for some reason.
I don't understand it.
Here is Joe Biden trying to shame Republicans.
Make no mistake.
Today's vote's gonna be long remembered.
And history's gonna judge harshly those who turn their back on freedom's cause.
We can't let Putin win.
Say it again, we can't let Putin win.
It's in our overwhelming national interest and the international interest of all our friends.
Any disruption in our ability to supply Ukraine clearly strengthens Putin's position.
So again, this idea is that if you don't support his latest spending package without border security, then Americans are going to be very, very angry at you.
I'm just wondering why, since we've already spent, according to the Center for Strategic and International Studies, we've already spent $113 billion in Ukraine.
And he's provided no off ramp.
Again, Biden's position is always shout broad slogans without any plan.
I'm not sure how this is going to work.
Biden is accusing Republicans of playing chicken with national security while he is playing chicken with national security.
Here he was yesterday.
Extreme Republicans are playing chicken with our national security.
Holding Ukraine's funding hostages are extreme partisan border policies.
Really?
They're playing chicken?
Why is border security an extreme policy?
They're Democrats who back it.
Senator Lankford of Oklahoma, he says, well, I mean, what we want is pretty obvious.
We would like some border security.
Why is this difficult?
There is a must-pass bill coming, and I believe in the Senate it's got funding for Israel, funding for Ukraine, and funding for border security.
I hope that passes, and I hope in the House they had a writer cutting off all the funds that go to these Ivy Universities that are engaged in anti-Semitism.
Where is that bill right now, Senator, and what's in it?
So the bill right now is called a Supplemental Funding Bill.
It's additional money to be able to help Ukraine, Israel, work in the Pacific, and also border funding.
We are actually in the Senate going to stop that bill from moving through because it doesn't have border policy issues.
Adding more money to the border just facilitates more people crossing the border faster with an actual change of direction on it.
So Senate Republicans will actually put a stop to that today and will say we are glad to be able to have a vote on this as long as we're also solving the issue at our southern border.
I mean, again, this is a pretty obvious win for Biden.
He gets pretty much what he wants.
And then he also gets to say that he facilitated border security.
So I don't really see the rationale other than he has an ideological commitment to some form of open borders, which is why he still has Alejandro Mayorkas, the Secretary of Homeland Security, which, again, is ridiculous since he's not guaranteeing the security of the homeland in any way, shape or form, suggesting that Joe Biden is actually doing an amazing job on immigration.
Let me make this perfectly clear.
The immigration system has been broken for decades, and our Department of Homeland Security has been underfunded for years and years.
And President Biden has addressed both issues with strength from day one.
On the first day of his administration, he presented Congress with legislation to fix our immigration system.
And we have submitted to Congress a supplemental funding bill that will resource our department, the heroic Border Patrol agents that you displayed just a few minutes ago, to fund them as they need to address what is an unprecedented level of migration, not only at our southern border, not only in the Western Hemisphere, but throughout the world.
Republicans are objecting to the fact that what Mayorkas and Biden want is more money on the border to facilitate faster entry.
Not to actually close the border.
Not to change border policy.
They want more agents to wave people through.
That's the idea here.
Meanwhile, Mayorkas is expending his political capital suggesting that the governor of Texas is doing something deeply wrong by shuttling migrants from Texas to places like Chicago, New York.
Again, it's very hilarious.
The Democrats continue to maintain that it's horrible for illegal immigrants to go to major American cities that are dominated by Democrats.
That basically, their border policy has to only affect red states.
It's amazing.
With respect to Governor Pritzker, with whom I communicate on a regular basis, we have provided him with tremendous assistance, not just financially through our shelter and services program, funding that the President achieved, but also in providing technical advice.
But let's get to the root.
of what Governor Pritzker's challenge is, is that we have another governor in another state that is not cooperating and coordinating with either federal or other local authorities and is unilaterally sending migrants to cities in what I think is an abdication of governance responsibility.
You're talking about Greg Abbott?
I am indeed.
It's the abdication of responsibility, apparently, to send illegal immigrants north.
Well, I mean, you guys are doing it every day, but from Mexico, so that's weird.
Again, Joe Biden could end all this today by simply saying, okay, we'll change our border policies, and I'll then be considered stronger on the border.
I'll have a defense when I'm attacked in a presidential race, but he is so attached to his left flank that he simply can't do it.
Meanwhile, over at the university, so the university's made a big boo-boo the day before yesterday.
the heads of Harvard, MIT, University of Pennsylvania.
They went to the Hill and they just exploded.
They did a horrible job.
They refused to say whether it is a violation of school policy to shout genocidal chants against Jews.
And then they had to walk it back.
So this was obviously ridiculous.
They waited like 24, 48 hours.
The problem that they have, as I discussed yesterday on the program,
is that the ideology of intersectionality demands the Jews be subjected to chants like this
because Jews are not part of the intersectional coalition.
Jews are quote-unquote white people, because they are part of the power hierarchy.
And so when people chant about getting rid of the Jews, well, you know, if they are the oppressed people who are shouting that, can you really target them?
Well, this has led to some backtracking from some of these university presidents well after the fact.
Claudine Gay, who is the president of Harvard, she put out a statement saying,
quote, there are some who have confused a right to free expression with the idea that Harvard
will condone calls for violence against Jewish students.
Let me be clear, calls for violence or genocide against the Jewish community or any religious or
ethnic group are vile. They have no place at Harvard. Those who threaten our Jewish students
will be held to account.
Now, again, she's living herself some wiggle room there.
Because if you say, from the river to the sea, Palestine shall be free, which is a call for genocide against Jews in that region, then apparently that's okay.
Or intifada revolution, that apparently is okay.
Only if you shout straight up, I want to kill that Jew, would Claudine Gay get involved.
The reality is that these universities have very strict speech codes.
If I say, boys are not girls, I might be brought up in front of the academic senate at these universities.
But suddenly they're relying on their free speech principles we pointed out yesterday.
It's absolute nonsense.
The blowback to these presidents was in fact strong from most sides of the aisle.
Even some Democrats were going after them.
So, Representative Jake Auchincloss, as well as Seth Moulton, both from Massachusetts, they put out a statement saying, Harvard ranks last out of 248 universities for support of free speech.
When it comes to denouncing anti-Semitism, suddenly the university has anxieties about the First Amendment.
It rings hollow.
Well, yes, even the White House went after these university presidents, putting out a statement suggesting that this is ridiculous.
According to Biden spokesperson Andrew Bates, he said, quote, it's unbelievable this needs to be said.
Calls for genocide are monstrous and antithetical to everything we represent as a country.
Any statement that advocates for the systematic murder of Jews are dangerous and revolting.
We should all stand firmly against them.
Only after the left signed in did these presidents start to back down.
Here was the University of Pennsylvania president who was caught on video kind of smirking as she was asked this question.
She looks quite contrite now because what the... She's blinking in Morse code.
Please leave me in my job.
That's what she's blinking in Morse code here.
There was a moment during yesterday's congressional hearing on anti-Semitism when I was asked if a call for the genocide of Jewish people on our campus would violate our policies.
In that moment, I was focused on our university's longstanding policies aligned with the U.S.
Constitution, which say that speech alone is not punishable.
I was not focused on, but I should have been.
The irrefutable fact that a call for genocide of Jewish people is a call for some of the most terrible violence human beings can perpetrate.
It's evil.
Plain and simple.
I want to be clear.
A call for genocide of Jewish people is threatening.
Deeply so.
Why did it take 24 hours to make this?
I'm sorry, it's ridiculous.
Here's the reality.
All these presidents were saying this stuff because they believe this stuff.
And now they're being forced to back off the point because there are a lot of donors who don't particularly like it,
but they still believe this stuff.
In fact, they were put in these positions because they believe this stuff.
This was the litmus test in the first place.
And again, the stupidity, if you want to see the stupid person's version of this ridiculous argument,
all you have to do is tune over to The View, where Sonny Hostin and Whoopi Goldberg are rushing to the
university's defense, claiming legal knowledge.
Again, Sonny Hostin, if she's your lawyer, man, you better get ready for some prison time, because she is the world's worst lawyer.
Here's Sonny Hostin trying to claim that legally speaking, these presidents are not allowed to take action against students who are calling for anti-Jewish genocide.
Naturally, it's Whoopi Goldberg and Sonny Hostin leading the charge on this one.
Of course, of course.
Because Whoopi is the same person who said that Hitler was not a racist when he went after the Jews because Jews were white people and it was white-on-white violence.
Again, they believe the stupid people version of what all these presidents believe.
Here they were trying to defend the universities.
College is the perfect place to have these sorts of uncomfortable conversations.
Jewish students don't feel comfortable on college campuses.
Even the ACLU said that the Supreme Court cannot prevent speech that is likely to provide a hostile response.
If I said this about any other community on earth other than Jews, I would be cancelled ten times to Sunday.
That's not true.
Because it's the most annoying, one of the most annoying things about the Constitution
is that as a student, if I'm looking out and I'm watching somebody put up that noose and
I'm feeling uncomfortable, they're not, you know.
If it's in a public place, it's fine.
If it's in front of your students' door, then that's different.
But here's from your student's door, then that's different.
And the law is the law.
The law is the law.
Whoopi Goldberg and Sunny Hostin.
People are ridiculous.
The law does not apply.
The First Amendment standard, unfortunately, is not the standard on college campuses.
I've been banned from colleges for saying some of the things that I say.
This is such a lie.
By the way, if you're a student, you put up a noose outside a black student's dorm at a major university, not only will you be canceled socially, you'll be expelled from the university.
We all know this.
This is a fact.
Whoopi Goldberg is a liar and she's stupid to boot.
I don't know whether she's lying or whether she's freaking dumb.
But the fact is that between Whoopi Goldberg and Sonny Haas and suddenly becoming First Amendment attorneys and their obvious crossover with the fact that they are kind of on the side of the Hamas next year.
And when I say kind of, I mean pretty obviously on the side of the Hamas next year.
That's what's happening.
Suddenly, the same people who hate free speech, the minute that their side is threatened by the standards that they themselves have set, suddenly they're free speech advocates.
It's amazing.
Truly incredible stuff.
Now again, if you want to set a free speech standard at these schools that anybody can say pretty much anything, that we're going to broaden the Overton window of behavior to include many more quote-unquote extreme viewpoints, that's fair.
But you know what's not?
These are the most restrictive places in America in terms of speech codes.
And suddenly, there's only one thing that is somehow immune to these speech codes, and that is when you're calling for the extermination of Jews in the Middle East.
When you're calling for the removal of Jews from that entire region.
Alrighty guys, the rest of the show is continuing right now, you're not going to want to miss it.
We'll be joined online by Elise Stefanik, she's House Republican Conference Chair.
She was the congresswoman who was grilling these presidents of major American universities.
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