Robert Kiyosaki contrasts the "rich dad" entrepreneurial mindset with the "poor dad" employee mentality, arguing that post-1971 fiat currency renders paper assets like stocks and 401(k)s as inflated bubbles. He advocates investing in hard assets such as gold, silver, oil wells, cattle, and real estate to escape debt, while criticizing the Biden administration's economic policies and promoting capitalism through his "five Gs" survival strategy. Drawing from his family's WWII internment experience, Kiyosaki emphasizes learning through mistakes rather than victimhood, ultimately suggesting that true wealth requires owning tangible assets immune to Federal Reserve inflation. [Automatically generated summary]
401Ks, the American dollar, even the stock market do not provide actual wealth, says Robert Kiyosaki.
So, let's dig into the idea of financial success in this episode.
Robert is the bestselling author of Rich Dad, Poor Dad, a now iconic book on growing up faced with two opposing mentalities toward money that's still on the charts and still acclaimed today, 25 years later.
Our economic landscape is dramatically changing, including a new recession, cryptocurrency, and an education system not only neglecting students on finance, but now going as far as turning young people against capitalism and the values of free markets themselves.
So, how does Rich Dad philosophy apply in the year 2022?
On Current Federal Policy, Robert references the Communist Manifesto, beliefs that were well regarded in his childhood home by his biological dad, his poor dad.
His newest book is a response, The Capitalist Manifesto, the latest in more than 25 finance books Robert has published.
In our episode, Robert tells us about discovering business and capitalism as a young boy, the difference between good debt and bad debt, and how the Biden administration compares to that of his longtime friend and frequent collaborator, former President Trump.
Well, the same way you became successful, you just go against the grain.
You know, everything my school taught me to do, go to school, get a job, work hard, save money, get out of debt, and invest in the long term in IRA or 401k, stocks, bonds, mutual funds, ETFs, I don't do.
Well, why would you save money when they can print it?
You know what I mean?
Why would you do that?
So I went to Vietnam twice as a marine pilot, and I came back and I couldn't listen to my poor dad anymore.
He wanted me to fly for United Airlines and get a job in a 401K.
I don't know that United Airlines pensions are gone.
They got looted.
So I couldn't listen to my poor dad anymore.
But this is in 1970, 74.
And in 74 was when ERISA was passed.
70, 74, and in 74 was when ERESA was passed.
ERESA was Economic Income Retirement Security Act.
Anything the government says they're going to protect, you know you're in trouble.
So I'm just like you.
I'm going, what are they pulling here?
That ERESA became the 401K.
And what happened then, so this is 1974.
I'm just getting out of the Marine Corps.
My father wants me to go fly for United or Hawaiian.
And I go, I don't think I want to do that.
I feel set up.
So I'm just like he, I just don't trust the sons of a bitches.
Do you know what I mean?
And then I noticed all these school teachers leaving the school system to become financial planners.
And the more I saw that, I went, oh my God, they're being set up.
So I am just like he, I go, why are they doing this?
And so when I saw my father's compadres, you know, these schoolteachers with master's degrees, PhDs, becoming financial planners, they were treading into my rich dad's territory.
And I got more suspicious.
My rich dad finally says, you know, schoolteachers becoming financial planners are like the poor leading the blind.
I am just like you.
I think a little deeper.
I want to know what's really going on behind the scenes.
So in a second, I want to ask you, you know, what that sort of led you to in terms of your own investment strategy.
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So let's talk about what this sort of realization that a lot of these institutions were not telling the truth and many of them were setting up, what this sort of led you to?
What was your new strategy for how to address the world and get involved in the economy?
So, when you talk about, sort of, your own investment strategy, you say that the stock market is inflated, that the dollar is not a good source of value, that bonds are going to get paid back in inflated dollars.
So, where do you recommend that people put their money?
You see, in 71, when Nixon took the dollar off the gold standard, breaking the 1944 Bretton Woods Agreement, he just broke the, he just screwed the whole world.
The dollar became credit, debt.
So if we hold up a credit card, is there any money in it?
No.
All credit is, is the agreement to pay it back.
That's all it is.
So at that point, and so that was in 71, so 72, I'm flying in Vietnam, and I said, what is the gold standard?
I didn't know what it was.
In 72, it was illegal for Americans to own gold.
I went, that's interesting, but they don't teach that in school.
You know, so I went shopping for gold in Vietnam.
The trouble was, it was behind enemy lines.
You know, the NVA, the North Vietnamese had overrun the gold mine, and marine pilots are not the brightest guys in the box.
You know what I mean?
My co-pilot and I, we create this partnership, say we're going to fly behind enemy lines and we're going to buy gold.
So we got there, we're at this gold mine, we took all our guns off, we walked through the village saying, we come as capitalists, we're not Marines, you know, we're unarmed.
I just want to buy gold.
unidentified
And the two of us were college graduates, academy graduates.
Yeah, I mean, there is obviously, when it comes to America's fiscal sanity, nothing there.
They're not thinking long term.
Everything seems moment to moment, and yet we're told that we're supposed to grant extraordinary levels of authority to these people behind closed doors who are going to fix the economy.
It was reported this week, actually, that Joe Biden is now going to extend the authority of the Federal Reserve.
Before, they were tasked with keeping inflation under control, which they've done a stellar job.
And they were tasked with keeping unemployment low.
And they've now been tasked with achieving racial equity.
So giving them more authority, given their excellent and stellar track record to achieve racial equity.
And this is precisely the opposite of the sort of free markets that you require in order to succeed.
If you understand, when you look at the macro-macro of the economy, the central bank or central controller of the economy is the primary reason for Marx.
You know, he says, the abolition of private property.
And that's why, who's that other character, Klaus Schwab says, someday you'll own nothing and you'll be happy.
It's seeping into us every day via academics.
So if you read the Communist Manifesto, it started to come true, because what Marx says, communism would come into America in two stages.
So stage one was 1930.
It's when the Frankfurt School sent teachers to Columbia University's Teacher's College.
So that was 1930.
That was stage one.
So they had to infect us via academics.
That's why there's no financial education in school.
Stage two is a 2020 election.
You know, it says, as Stalin said, it's not who votes that counts, it's who counts.
So there's a widespread perception on the part of many on the right that taking out debt in order to finance X, Y, or Z is a bad idea.
That in order to, you know, achieve your financial goals in the future, the first thing is to get out of debt.
I mean, this is like a whole school of thought on the right.
And for many people who, you know, I know a lot of people have had credit card trouble, who have gotten themselves in real trouble with debt.
What you've advocated with regard to debt for entrepreneurs, though, Obviously, there's truth to that.
The vast majority of companies start with somebody actually having to take out a loan against something in order to get a company started.
So, how do you recommend that people draw that balance between working off of debt and also not getting themselves in so much trouble that it destroys them?
So in a second, I'm gonna ask you about Joe Biden's economic policies versus Trump's economic policies.
And you say that you weren't political, but you've sort of been forced to become political.
First, let's talk about your investment portfolio.
Well, in case you missed it, last month, Treasury Secretary, Jenny Ellen, openly admitted to having completely blown it when it came to This human, who is supposed to be the authority on our nation's economic policy, by the way, said, quote, I was wrong about the path inflation would take.
There have been unanticipated and large shocks to the economy that have boosted energy and food prices and supply bottlenecks that have affected our economy badly, that at the time, I didn't fully understand, unquote.
Well, there you have it.
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Text BEN Okay, so let's talk about the differences that have kind of cropped up over time.
You say that you weren't particularly political.
Now you found yourself in a position of having to be political.
So first of all, what made you have to be political?
You know, the CEOs were borrowing money to buy back their own stock.
They couldn't grow their companies, so they just jack up the stock price.
And all the baby boomers like me get all happy and all this stuff, you know, don't worry, be happy.
And we finance our social problems with debt that'll never be paid back.
So that's what I think about.
So why don't I invest in the stock market?
Because I don't have to.
Let me say it again.
The Fed cannot print oil.
I own oil wells.
I don't own oil stocks.
They can't print cattle, so I own cattle and I breed cattle.
They can't print real estate, so I borrow the printed money to buy real estate, and my tenants pay it off.
And because I use borrowed money, which is tax-free, and my tenants pay off my asset, I'm allowed to depreciate it, amortize it, and what's one more thing?
Appreciation.
All of it's tax-free.
America is a tax-free nation, but you have to be a capitalist.
And that's why there's no financial education in our schools, because academics are primarily socialist Marxists.
So, given that fact, what do you think the future of the country looks like?
I mean, right now, one of the things that I think a lot of people are optimistic about, if you're on the right, is that there's a wild level of institutional distrust that's now taking place.
The kind of institutional distrust that you're talking about experiencing in the 60s and 70s, looking at what Nixon is doing, taking us off Bretton Woods.
For several decades, there's been sort of a baseline level of trust in our institutions.
And since the 2007-2008 crisis, it's really cratered.
And particularly since 2016, it's completely cratered with the realization that so much of our financial system is controlled by people who really are not fans of capitalism.
With the realization that so many of the institutions of law enforcement are controlled by people who have a political agenda.
That could be a good thing.
It could also be a really bad thing because you see sort of society bifurcating.
On the one hand, you have people who are on the right saying these institutions are bad.
They need to have their power curbed.
We need more individual freedom.
On the other hand, you have people on the left who are saying these institutions are bad.
They should be given more power to control the people I don't like, and then maybe they'll be good.
So in a second, I want to ask you sort of how you think, very critical of the educational system, how you think kids should be educated?
How do they learn about this stuff properly?
Is it sort of life experience or are there actual lessons that are easy to inculcate?
We'll get to that in a second.
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All right, so let's talk about the educational system.
Obviously, the educational system, they don't even teach basic econ.
I mean, not econ 101.
It seems like most of the education you get about economics is rooted in what do we think is fair?
You know, we're in a room and we have a pile of money.
How should we distribute the money?
There's always this assumption that there's a pile of money to begin with and that somebody has produced it and now we get to control it.
But, you know, it's notoriously difficult to teach people Not only basic econ, but also just how to make good financial decisions, especially unless you're using simple rubrics like don't take out debt.
Because again, good debt versus bad debt is a more subtle distinction than no debt.
So what's the best way?
You have a kid who's five, six, seven years old.
You want to create an educational program for them that's going to lead to them being a very successful entrepreneur someday.
And that's what I say, but if you're an idiot and you're broke and, you know, you can't pay off your credit card debt, what are you teaching your kids?
So that's why my wife and I created the Cash Flow Board Game, you know, to teach income, expense, asset liabilities, cash flow.
But the financial statement, people may not know this, is really blockchain.
When they talk about blockchain today, when you look at a financial statement, it's income, expense, asset liability, statement of cash flow, auditor.
In the real world of crypto, the auditor is blockchain.
You've got to verify your numbers.
Trust, but verify.
So that's why in 1996, my wife and I created the Cash Flow Board Game, because as Maria Montessori said, what the hand does, the mind remembers.
What that means is you can't become a golfer reading a book.
You know, you gotta pick up this club and hit bad balls and all that.
But our schools punish you for making mistakes.
So if I get up there and hit a bad shot, they'll say, oh, you're a stupid golfer.
Well, no, take more lessons.
And that's the most important thing for the parent is to be the child's most important financial educator.
But if the parent is an idiot or is broke, you know what I mean?
They can't control their spending.
That affects the child.
So the parent is the child's most important teacher.
So that's why I created board games and write books to stay away from the school system.
Education's important, but be careful what you're being taught.
You know, Thomas Sowell, he's a fantastic human being, marine also.
I mean, I've talked about this with my wife because my kids are still very young.
They're eight, six, and two.
And so we've talked about the possibility of what to do when the kids get to college age.
And what I've said to her before is, unless they're doing something in STEM, right, where you actually have to have classes in order to become a doctor or become an engineer.
If they're looking at liberal arts or if they're just looking at business, I'd rather take all the money that we're talking about and just give it to them to start a business.
And I'd rather they try and fail and lose all the money and learn the lessons of failing than go to school and learn how to fail perennially and forever.
Because it seems like that's mostly what is being taught at the college level.
The number of entrepreneurs who are people who never went to college, it seems like is really disproportionate to the number of people who went to college.
The expectations are wildly out of Context from, from where people end up.
I mean, I look at my own company and my own company, you know, I'm a law school educated guy.
My two business partners, neither of them finished college.
One of them didn't even go.
And so, you know, those are people who started off working with their, one of them started off working with his hands and literally handling the gardening on an estate.
And another one of them ended up that when I met him, he was volunteering for a 501c3 group making $0 a year.
And the way he learned business was actually doing the business.
And we had to try a couple of times before we actually Succeeded in building daily wire.
I don't think there's necessarily a substitute for that.
And we don't give our kids enough chance to take the risk and then fail.
My son is already asking me about, like, what money is, and I have to explain to him that, you know, the differences between money that's backed by the full faith and credit of the United States and actual, you know, tradable and fungible gold, for example.
And it's interesting trying to explain those concepts to small kids, particularly, because It requires you to have a little bit more specificity in how you think, for sure.
Yeah, I mean, and I think that that is, as you say, the difference between good debt and bad debt, but also the difference between a good asset and a bad asset.
I mean, the fact is that once it receives a certain level of market buy-in, then it's not going back down to zero.
And that's what I see.
People have asked me about Bitcoin, and that's what I've said.
I've said, look at the ones that have enough market buy-in that they're not going back to zero.
I want to ask you about the recession, where you think things are going.
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Okay, so let's talk about the economy and where things stand right now.
So obviously, I think we're already in a recession.
You can only measure a recession retrospectively.
We keep hearing from people, we're not in a recession because we haven't had two consecutive quarters of negative GDP growth.
It's like, well, you're not going to find that out until we actually measure the GDP growth at the end of the second quarter.
But it seems like The policies of the Fed, the policies of Joe Biden have brought about what I thought was almost the unthinkable.
I thought it was pretty much unthinkable that we'd be in recession at this point in time or close to it, given the fact that we are coming out in January of 2021 with a working vaccine, with people getting back to work, with an artificially induced economic coma that was now being broken.
And how do you blow that?
And somehow we seem to have blown it.
Where do you think the economy is?
Do you think that we're going to see a recession, stagflation?
So one of the things that you also say is that people in America don't tend to emulate the successful.
We don't spend enough time looking at the successful and figuring out how they did it.
We instead sort of try to tear them down.
Obviously, that's true.
I mean, you can even see that in the difference between how people used to dress back in 1950 and how people dress now.
It used to be that if you were homeless, you tried to dress like a millionaire.
Now, if you're a millionaire, you try to dress like you're homeless.
Right.
And that seems to be the common pattern.
It's the one thing, actually, of all the things about Trump that I liked, the thing I liked best is that he was unapologetically wealthy.
I love the idea that he was just like, yeah, I have a jet.
And yeah, my taste is gauche, but I'm going to coat everything, including the toilet in gold.
And you know what?
Tough.
Like being rich is better than being poor.
I mean, that happens to be just a thing that is true about the world.
Being rich is, in fact, better than being poor, which is why you'd like to be rich and you want your kids to be rich and you want your nation to be rich.
So why do you think it is that so many Americans Refuse to emulate the successful and instead seem to fall into this fallacy of thinking that it's a matter of the fortunate or the unfortunate, or as they like to put it on the left now, the privilege versus the underprivileged.
Well, again, you said earlier, it depends on the person, you know what I mean?
And I recommend to anybody, if you want to find out why America's in trouble, go knocking door to door in a low rent neighborhood and ask for the rent.
You'll hear the American attitude coming out.
It's horrifying.
The rich are evil, taxed are rich, and all this stuff.
But the thing that's funny about Trump was his private jet is a 727.
Mine's a Lear 60.
unidentified
And his jet goes like this, and my jet goes like this.
So one of the things that I found most disturbing in sort of the where we are in the world of econ talk and people who who live in sort of the halls of free markets is that many of them preach the ideas of free markets, but they don't actually like free markets very much.
You see this at the World Economic Forum every every year, right?
You have Klaus Schwab and company basically talking about the wonders of free markets and we need free trade, we need free markets.
And then at the same exact time, they'll be talking about how we in this room, we should set the rules.
We can remake the world.
We can we can change everything.
And then when things fail, people tend to blame capitalism.
You saw the same thing in 2007-2008.
You have an entire government-sponsored industry of giving out subprime loans to subprime borrowers, who obviously are not going to pay them back, backed by the government.
And then people take those and they mix them into the economy and they create these credit derivative swaps and mix them with a bunch of other assets that are higher rank and suddenly these are A-assets when they really should not be A-assets.
And then it infects the entire economy.
And then when things go south, We're told by the media that capitalism has failed, as opposed to what really happened here, which is the combination of profit-seeking people and government failed.
And profit-seeking people and government is not capitalism.
Capitalism is a profit-seeking person without the government.
So in a second, I want to ask you about something you mentioned earlier, which is that obviously you're Japanese, your family has had a history of being- Samurai.
Well, but your history in the United States, obviously your family suffered oppression during World War II.
And I want to ask about, you know, the fact that we've become such a society focused on past oppression as opposed to what we can do for the future.
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Okay, so you mentioned earlier briefly that your family history is that they were actually interned during World War II.
And a concentration camp, their property was taken away.
And yet you didn't end up bitter at the United States.
You're very positive about the United States.
What do you think has changed?
Because this seems to be a real generational difference.
It seemed like for a while there, we were on the right track where people realized that America's past, you know, had a lot of horrific things about it, but that we were moving in the right direction.
There was a lot of freedom for individuals.
And now it seems like we're moving directly in the opposite direction.
You want to be a doctor, lawyer, you know, accountant.
School's important.
But it's what we're teaching kids now is to be victims.
It's a victim mentality.
That's where Black Lives Matter, Critical Race Theory, and all the other garbage you're pumping out.
You're victims.
You must get even.
So when my family had everything taken away, they were locked up in Manzanar and all this other stuff, it inspired us to fight more.
So during World War II, they formed the 442nd All Japanese American Infantry Battalion is today the single most highly decorated infantry battalion in U.S.
Army history.
And I had three uncles serving that in the European campaign, and two uncles fought against the Japanese.
And one was captured.
And he was, you know, so the Japanese captured another Japanese guy.
He's not a welcome home brother.
And so I asked, why was my uncle who was captured by the Japanese so bitter?
He wasn't bitter.
He was tracking down the prisoner of war.
It was like Hogan's Heroes.
He was after the guy.
So I said, why?
He says, because he was Japanese fighting for the Americans.
He publicly castrated him.
I said, I'd be a little bit bitter on that one, too.
You know, God designed us, so when a baby learns to walk, baby crawls, stands up and falls, stands up and falls, then finally takes the first step, and the next thing, they're running, then flying.
But what our schools do, when a child falls, they punish them.
You're stupid.
You make mistakes.
Smart people don't make mistakes.
And when I look at the way humans were designed to learn, we're designed to learn from mistakes.
So that's why you can't, you know, when you play golf, I'm sure Tiger Woods has hit more bad shots than me.
He's failed more than me.
So when you look at the real reality of the world, the biggest failures are the most successful.
Because the Marine Corps, I was flying right next to the top gun school in San Diego.
And we had to crash three times a day.
Every single day, you know... Because we knew that in 1972, when I was going to get going over to Vietnam, life expectancy of a gunship pilot was 30 days.
So the lesson the Marine Corps taught us, the more dangerous the mission, the more you have to prepare.
So every day we had to log in how many auto-rotations we shot.
So every day we kill our engines and we learn to fly without engines.
So I got to Vietnam, went down three times.
It was like practice.
So the lesson I learned from the Marine Corps was the more dangerous the mission, you must prepare.
So when you look at other countries around the world, where do you think the United States places in terms of sort of our international economic readiness?
I mean, the bet that a lot of people are making right now is that the United States is still the strongest weak horse, meaning that there are a lot of other countries out there.
Unlike a lot of the European countries, our demographics are not quite as in market decline.
Well, the first most important thing about America is freedom.
less than replacement rates, but it's not like, say, Japan, which is now reproducing at like point eight or point nine.
And and as long as we're the strongest horse and people are still going to buy up our debt, people are still going to finance the dollar.
People are still going to get into bonds.
And, you know, I wonder how long that's going to last or where you think that the any other nations that you think are are sort of biting at our heels.
I have a lot of friends who are communists, but they don't know it.
They never read the Communist Manifesto, so thank you.
Or you can be Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim.
That's probably our greatest asset, is that freedom.
And even when I come here, you have to have guards around your building, but at least you can have a guard and arms.
I'm armed to the teeth all the time, so don't take my guns away, is what I'm saying.
You know what I mean?
So that gives us our strength.
But we have to fight back.
That's all I'm saying.
So I wrote a book, Capitalist Manifesto, to counter Communist Manifesto.
People haven't read Communist Manifesto, so I wrote Capitalist Manifesto.
You know, I just want to fight back.
And I think the freedom to fight back is essential.
In this next coming election, you and I are very optimistic that it's going to be a trouncing of the worst president we've ever seen, Biden.
I'm not political, I just think he's the most incompetent.
He and I are the same age, but I still have some brain cells left, you know?
But I can't believe he opens the border and lets all that fentanyl through.
I can't believe he cuts down the Keystone XL pipeline, then blames Russia for raising gas prices.
And Americans believe the idiot.
I'm not saying, don't listen to what he says, watch what he's doing.
He opens the borders, he cuts down our oil supply, he calls parents terrorists for questioning the school system, and then he blames Putin for our problems.
I mean, I think that a lot of us were very depressed in November of 2020.
And the fact that, again, if you go back and you listen to my podcast, I was saying that Biden was going to have a real easy time of it, because by all extraneous circumstances, he should have had an easy time of it.
We weren't in the middle of any serious foreign wars.
We had an economy that was going to naturally rebound because it had been booming before COVID, and now COVID was going to come to an end.
And somehow he blew it so badly that he's going to usher in the people he hates most back into office, I think.
So I want to ask you a few final questions, starting with why you think that so many Americans are just completely ignorant of capitalism and what you think the main fundamental things about capitalism people should know are.
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Well, folks, that is Robert Kiyosaki.
Robert, thank you so much for stopping by.
It really is a pleasure.
Don't forget, everyone, make sure to go out and get a copy of Robert Kiyosaki's new book, Capitalist Manifesto, How Entrepreneurs Can Save Capitalism.