June 15, 2018 - Brother Nathanael
05:33
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| Time | Text |
|---|---|
| The Supremes just ruled on Masterpiece Cake Shop, whose owner, Jack Phillips, didn't quite submit to a same-sex couple's wish. | |
| He was willing to sell them any cake in the shop, but declined making a wedding cake, custom creating a work of art that becomes part of the wedding and thereby sends a message. | |
| It was a message Phillips didn't want to send as a matter of Christian conscience and belief that views sodomy as a sin. | |
| Phillips doesn't make Halloween cakes either, also as a matter of Christian conscience. | |
| The court ruled in his favor. | |
| Yippee! said he. | |
| Now, in Colorado, a baker refused to make a cake for a same-sex couple. | |
| The case went to the Supreme Court, which ruled in favor of the baker. | |
| Jack Phillips is his name. | |
| He joins us now, along with his lawyer, Kristen Wagoner. | |
| First of all, to you, Mr. | |
| Jack, do you regard this as an out-and-out victory for your religious principles? | |
| I believe that this is a very big win for religious freedom. | |
| No way! That pair can walk right back into a shop and demand he create a gay wedding cake. | |
| The Supreme Court ruling with a Colorado baker tonight who refused to bake a cake to celebrate the marriage of a same-sex couple because of his own religious objection. | |
| The ruling was seven to two. | |
| Hold it there. Kagan and Breyer, both liberal Jews, were with the seven. | |
| Kind of suspicious, since both voted for same-sex marriage last time around. | |
| The court held that the Colorado Civil Rights Commission showed hostility towards the baker based on his religious beliefs, but the ruling leaves broader constitutional questions of civil rights and religious liberty unsettled. | |
| Justice Anthony Kennedy, who is the author of four landmark cases protecting LGBT rights, wrote in today's majority ruling. | |
| Here's what it says. | |
| The outcome of cases like this and other circumstances must await further elaboration in the courts, | |
| all in the context of recognizing that these disputes must be resolved with tolerance, | |
| without undue disrespect to sincere religious beliefs, and without subjecting gay persons to indignities when they | |
| seek goods and services in an open market. | |
| You see, the Supreme Court reprimanded the Colorado Civil Rights Commission | |
| for its open hostility to Phillips' faith, which clearly violated his First Amendment rights, | |
| but did nothing to come down on either side in the larger wedding cake dispute. | |
| For while the decision states that hostile bureaucrats can't violate the Constitution's Free Exercise Clause by being biased towards someone's religion, it still protects gays from indignities, which has no legal definition, as long as bureaucrats don't obviously trash someone's religion in their proceedings. | |
| So let's discuss now. Joining me, the couple at the center of this case. | |
| Dave Mullins and Charlie Craig. | |
| Thank you so much, gentlemen, for joining us this evening. | |
| We really appreciate it. So, Charlie, you first. | |
| What was your reaction when the case came down, when you heard about this? | |
| You must have been disappointed, I'm sure, in the result. | |
| Yeah, thanks, Don, for asking. | |
| You know, this morning we were not expecting the case to have a decision, but we were watching the SCOTUS blog, and all of a sudden it showed up Masterpiece. | |
| And then immediately we saw it's a 7-2 decision, and Kennedy wrote it. | |
| And, you know, at that point, you just don't know what the decision says or how to decipher it. | |
| You know, we're not exactly lawyers, even though we've been going through this for six years. | |
| So, you know, we had a lot of, you know, we ran around for two hours being very confused and sad and worried. | |
| But, you know, as the day has progressed, we've found like some, you know, little gold nuggets like, you know, the Colorado anti-discrimination laws are still intact. | |
| It's nuggets worth litigating again for. | |
| You see, Chief Justice Kennedy sent every signal in his compromising majority opinion that should Colorado again seek to sanction the banker for a future refusal to serve same-sex couples, the state will win. | |
| So long as it refrains from statements that deride religion. | |
| Dave, Jack Phillips did offer to bake other goods for you but refused the wedding cake. | |
| I mean, what would you say to people who ask, why not just go to a cake maker who didn't object to same-sex marriage? | |
| I know it's an obvious question, but I have to ask. | |
| Well, I mean, the point of this case wasn't whether or not there was someone else out there who could bake a cake for us. | |
| The reason we brought this case was because we didn't want another loving couple to have to be turned away from a business just for who they are. | |
| Look, people, I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings here. | |
| I mean, everyone's so touchy-feely these days. | |
| But what does romance have to do with constitutional rights? | |
| That's now in conflict between religious rights and lovers' rights, which aren't found anywhere in any law I know of. | |
| I mean, sure, you can eat, but you can't always have your cake, too. | |
| Let a free market decide, and keep Big Gov out of the bakery. |
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