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Nov. 14, 2024 - Blood Money
54:53
The Return Of The Constitutional Sheriff with Sheriff Richard Mack (BM266)
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Transcription by CastingWords
Transcription by CastingWords Today we have Sheriff Mack with us.
How are you doing, sir?
Doing great.
Great to be with you, Vam, and thanks for having me.
I appreciate it.
And it's not like you and I haven't done this before.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, I titled this one Return of the Constitutional Sheriff, hoping that by the time this election's done, we actually get some good news and we're looking at a new era of law and order.
And that's my hope.
You know, it's kind of like a Star Wars theme going on tonight.
Yeah, it is.
It is in a lot of ways.
And in fact, two sheriffs that I'm supporting just texted me a thank you.
Okay.
And I'll tell you who they are.
One of them is Dan Wilson in Kootenai County, Idaho.
And he's running against an incumbent who I would call...
Someone who doesn't give a damn about being a constitutional sheriff.
Wow.
And he's not a horrible sheriff.
He just has this personality that is kind of arrogant that nobody's going to tell me what to do, least of which this former Sheriff Mack from Arizona.
And he's just, you know, he doesn't want anything to do with it.
And I said, look, you know, you don't have to have my training, but get somebody to come in and train you and your officers on the Constitution or, you know, call somebody in Idaho.
Call a state rep or call another sheriff.
There's really good sheriffs in Idaho.
But you know where he served about 20 years in law enforcement, where he grew up in law enforcement, where he got the bulk of his training?
Los Angeles Police Department.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
And I told him this face to face.
I said, you worked for one of the most corrupt police departments in American history, and now you just moved to Northern Idaho to double dip, and...
You also took a medical from Los Angeles, and so what's wrong with you that you had to take a medical there, but now you can come be full-time sheriff in Kootenai County in Coeur d'Alene?
What does take a medical mean?
He had some sort of a medical problem, so he took a retirement because of it early.
Oh, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow.
That's crazy.
I mean, growing up in L.A., I mean, I could tell you, like, I've been to the downtown L.A. LAPD office, and they got a huge mural, like the whole...
Oh, it is huge.
Yeah, and it's all about the bad stuff that they've done, and it's like, I mean, every single decade, you know?
They can't escape it.
It's all over their mural.
It's their...
Yeah, it's their calling card.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
I've just had nothing but trouble with him.
I've tried to reach out to him.
I've tried to invite him to our events and he doesn't return my call.
He actually left me a message one time or texted me and said, why are you saying on Nino's show?
You know Nino.
Yeah, and I was on Nino's show about a year ago, and Nino brought up a sheriff in Kootenai County in Coeur d'Alene.
I said, yeah, he's not a constitutional sheriff.
So he said, Sheriff Norris called me and said, what do I do that's not constitutional?
And I said, well, I don't have enough time to put this in a text.
But if you'll call me this evening, I'll be happy to discuss it with you.
So he never called me.
He didn't want to talk about it.
He just wanted to do this little hit and run and hide behind his cell phone.
But when I asked him for just a conversation between him and me, he wanted nothing to do with it.
And so one of the deals is that I actually, I wrote him a letter to his office and I put in the letter, I said, Sheriff Norris, just so you know, I had nothing against you from the get-go, even though I actually endorsed somebody who was running against him.
But I didn't think the guy that I endorsed had much of a chance, and he didn't win.
But I was really hoping that Norris wasn't going to get it, because he was the worst candidate of the three.
But so I wrote in the letter, I said, right after you got elected, someone in your county called me.
And I don't remember his name.
I'm sure he gave me his name.
And I said, or he told me, he said, did Sheriff Norris ever contact you after he got elected?
And I said, no.
As a matter of fact, I've tried to contact him, and he never returns my calls.
Oh, wow.
So, and then the guy said, why that son of, you know, so he started cussing at him, and I said, why, what's wrong?
And he said, he told me, face to face, that he was going to work with you, and he was going to invite you here, and that he was going to try to be a constitutional sheriff.
I said, nothing of the sort.
So, I asked that guy, do you want me to follow up with this?
He goes, no.
I will.
So I told Norris about that and I said, I had nothing to do with that.
You did.
And that was between you and your constituent.
But he thought you lied to him.
And just so you know, I left it alone.
I didn't go after you.
But this constituent of yours really was pissed about it.
So I said, if you want to talk about this and everything else you wanted to talk about, no, no calls, no talking, you know.
And he's quite an emotional pygmy.
He cries when he's being interviewed, and he cries at public events.
He's not in control of his emotions.
And then another candidate is in Ada County, which is Boise, the capital, and that's Doug Trouble.
T-R-A-U-B-E-L. Doug Traubel is absolutely a tremendously qualified candidate for sheriff.
And four years ago, they had to pick a replacement for the sheriff who retired.
And Doug Traubel was the number one pick to take his place.
And then the leftists and the rhinos started attacking him And they didn't pick him.
After they placed him as their number one pick.
Wow.
They didn't pick him after they kept going.
Could you explain to the viewers what makes a constitutional sheriff versus one that's a not constitutional sheriff?
The oath of office.
And it's just simply every sheriff, as you well know them, Every sheriff and every government official must swear an oath of allegiance to the Constitution as per Article 6 of the United States Constitution.
It's required by law that we swear that oath.
Military does it.
Some teachers do it.
A lot of teachers do it.
All law enforcement, all sheriffs, All legislators, dog catchers, anybody in government, they all swear that oath.
You can look at the oath that the President of the United States takes.
Ours is very similar.
Okay.
So we swear that oath.
And the question is, will you keep it?
The constitutional sheriff who's dedicated to the Constitution, who has integrity, will say to the public...
I will keep that oath.
It's not a flippant thing for me.
I believe in that oath.
I believe in the Constitution.
I will obey it and I will enforce it.
So no law enforcement agency has training on the Constitution.
Very, very little.
No police academy does.
But we offer that and we fill that vacuum with our class called the Constitution for Law Enforcement Officers or the Constitution for Sheriffs.
And we put that out.
And I've had a dozen or so sheriffs ask me to come to their location and do the training for their entire office or for all surrounding officers in other departments and police departments.
And I do it.
And Chris Ann Hall, who's a constitutional lawyer, she does it.
She did it for the entire Western State Sheriff's Association.
So, other people are doing this and it's appropriate because, quite honestly, Vam, how does a sheriff take an oath of office and swear allegiance to the Constitution Doesn't that presuppose that he knows and understands the Constitution?
And there's not much to understand.
If you read it and study it, you're going to get it.
You're going to understand it.
It's not that long.
I got a copy right here.
It's right here in this little pamphlet.
I'll bet you could read the whole thing in an hour.
And then mark it.
Mark it where there's some stuff, but pay particular attention.
To the Bill of Rights.
The first 10 amendments in the Bill of Rights.
And the first 10 amendments is wow.
There's about 28 principles of freedom guaranteed in the first 10 amendments.
And there's five in number one.
Every cop, every peace officer, every citizen, everyone should know what those five are.
You don't have to memorize them all, but tell me what the first five cover.
Tell me what the first five are in the First Amendment.
There's not one in each one.
No.
In fact, even in the Second Amendment, there's two.
The principle of a well-regulated militia.
And then the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
And then number three, no housing of troops and the soldiers in people's homes.
And so number four, of course, is probable cause and due process and duly signed warrants.
Not due process, sorry.
Probable cause.
Due process is number six.
And number five talks about due process.
And then number six details the due process that every accused is guaranteed.
And then seven talks about grand jury and common law.
And that in all cases of common law, A jury shall be guaranteed to the accused in civil matters as well.
So you have a guarantee of a jury, a jury trial in number six, which covers criminal law.
And then in number seven, it guarantees it in civil matters.
So we the people We make up the jury, and we have the final say in every criminal and civil matter if the accused and if the people agree in the civil matter to have a jury.
You don't have to, but most people do, and most people want their peers judging the case.
So, in practice, could you give me an example of, in practice, if it's a constitutional sheriff, how they would behave in a situation versus somebody that might not know the Constitution?
Oh, heck yeah!
My favorite, my most recent favorite story during COVID-19, you met these people in Vegas at our event on April 17th this past spring.
And Pastor Rodney Howard Brown, he wasn't there, but Pastor Rodney Howard Brown was arrested in Tampa, Florida by Sheriff Chronister.
And Pastor Brown has a mega church and I've been out there and I've met him and he's like one of the best pastors in the history of America.
Absolutely love him.
He is brash, man.
He's like a Donald Trump pastor.
Just really brash, speaks his mind, and really puts it to people.
And I loved his church service.
But this is the thing.
He didn't shut his church down during COVID, and Sheriff Chronister went and arrested him for not obeying the mandates.
What law did you arrest him on, Chronister?
What law did you use?
There's no such law that you have to shut your church down during COVID. There was no law.
So making a mandate a law and then trying to enforce it, that's on you, Sheriff Chronister.
So anyway...
And the tale of two sheriffs.
Sheriff Glenn Hamilton from New Mexico had a pastor in his county come to him and say, in fact, it was Caleb Cooper, Dr.
Caleb Cooper.
And Dr.
Cooper went to Sheriff Hamilton and said, I'm not shutting my church down.
And I'll tell you why.
Because?
The government doesn't run our church.
Jesus Christ runs our church.
Exactly.
And I want you to tell me what you're going to do to protect us to stay open.
And Sheriff Hamilton said, if it takes me having to go to jail myself, then so be it.
But I will do everything in my power to protect you and your congregation.
Wow.
So in came the state police to shut them down.
They were confronted, not physically, not with weapons or anything else, very professionally, very tactfully.
Sheriff Hamilton came out and told them, just so you know, I have deputized every single person in that church.
They are under my authority, and they will remain open under my authority and protection.
The state police left.
They never came back.
And Pastor Cooper never shut down one second of any Sunday.
He kept his church open the whole time because we had a courageous and creative sheriff that believed in his oath of office.
That's the difference.
That's the difference.
Okay?
Any sheriff could do that.
Any sheriff could do that, right?
Yeah.
It's like American-style freedom versus this kind of tyranny that we're hearing happening in the United Kingdom, in Canada, where there's not the level of freedom we have in our Bill of Rights.
Exactly.
Let me ask you, it's called the constitutional sheriffs and peace officers.
Why peace officers and not police officers?
Well, because we're not police officers.
We're supposed to be keepers of the peace.
And even most of the states call their, quote, police officers or law enforcement officers, they call them peace officers.
And it's in the state association that oversees the ongoing qualifications and certifications of all police.
And it's called, in Utah, it's called UT Post.
In Arizona, it's called AZ Post.
In New Mexico, it's NM POST. And it stands for Peace Officers Standards and Training.
And I think California has that, but about half of the states call it POST. And they call it like in Texas, it's TECO, Texas Certification of Law.
But anyway, we are supposed to be peace officers.
Not a police state type officer.
We're here to keep the peace and it needs to be that we all understand the proper role of government.
And that is, right out of the Declaration of Independence, that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men.
That includes us.
We're supposed to be protecting the rights of every individual And every citizen in our counties.
Our job is to protect the innocent as well as go after the guilty.
And sometimes then we still need to look and say, are we trying to just make this person guilty?
Or are we trying to make sure we find the truth and make sure that we know if this person really is guilty?
We have as much responsibility to find out if a person's innocent as we do just focusing on their possible guilt.
Yeah.
Now, education-wise, it seems as though the education of police officers suffers from the same issue that law schools suffer from, which is that most law students don't understand the Constitution.
They're groomed to really follow statutory law, maritime law, admiralty law, whatever you call it.
And case law.
And case law versus the original law of the Constitution.
That seems intentional.
Is it that we've basically been usurped through education and our police officers, lawyers are not trained properly?
No, they're not trained properly.
And that's why we've tried to fill the void.
And it's really sad that no officer is ever trained in the significance of his oath of office.
And the role we play in securing our God-given republic.
So we need lots more instructors on that.
Chris Ann Hall does it full-time.
I do it full-time.
And we're all dedicated to this holy cause of liberty because we cannot save America in ignorance.
And remember that old saying?
Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
Yeah.
Well, that applies to the peace officers of this country.
If you swear an oath and you wittingly and intentionally disobey it, you have committed perjury.
That's against the law.
And so you're right.
Tradition and complacency have taken over training in our colleges, our law schools, and our police academies.
And it's really a shame.
And that's one of the things.
After I was a rookie cop for about three years, I almost quit because of that.
I said, what is all this government doing?
The judicial branch doesn't ever follow the Constitution.
The legislative branch never follows the Constitution.
The executive branch, of which part we are, cops and sheriffs, are part of the executor of the law.
The executive branch.
And we are supposed to be enforcing the law.
And I always ask this in my presentations, which law do you enforce?
Do you understand that That a long habit of not thinking a thing to be wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being correct.
And that's what we've done in law enforcement.
We think sitting out there behind bushes or signs, writing tickets all day is law enforcement.
That's not being a peace officer.
That's being a tax collector.
That's all part of revenue generation.
And the radar tickets alone are a $9 billion a year industry.
And every cop should be ashamed of that.
Are there some times we should write righteous tickets?
Well, they should only write righteous tickets.
But yeah, I'm not against all ticket writing, but I'm against about 90% of it.
Because very little of it has anything to do with public safety.
It has everything to do with my sergeant, my lieutenant, and the chief, and everybody in the city councils.
And, oh, you need to be writing these tickets.
Well, why?
Is there a major traffic problem in this city?
Then, yes, we need to find a way to solve that.
But not just by going out and writing tickets.
Let's go examine where the worst accidents are happening and see what we need to do to get people to pay attention and to be careful.
And is the only way to do that by writing tickets that just so happens makes the city and county millions of dollars every year?
Look, let's focus on working with the people.
One time we had a complaint about this when I was sheriff and I heard it from several citizens.
And so I wrote up flyers, and I got about 15 students from the local high school, and I took them around with me and my deputies and some of our bands, and we had them deliver all these flyers to people in the area.
And we said, look, we've had complaints.
Usually the people that are the problem with traffic are the people who live in that area.
And I was right.
But that's a national statistic.
It's easy to say that.
And so we gave people a chance.
I said, look, we're going to be running radar.
We don't want to write tickets.
We want you and your children to talk to your teenage drivers.
And let's start being careful, especially at the bus stops, the school bus stops, when buses are stopping to take kids to school in the mornings.
And that really helped.
And people cooperated because we put them on notice instead of sitting there gouging them with extravagant tickets that are outlawed in Article 8 or Amendment 8 of the Constitution of the Bill of Rights.
No excessive fines or bail.
Wow, wow.
And what do you think tickets are?
They're excessive and they're too frequent.
Yeah, yeah.
It seems as though, okay, for the law end of this, you know, having done a little bit of research on this topic, it seems as though the bar, which is a private monopoly, has really invaded the law schools.
Like, they're really dominating what the kids are taught or, like...
You know, people in law school are taught, right?
What is the mechanism whereby which the teaching of these police officers has gone wrong?
Was there ever a time when they were taught the Constitution properly?
Did that go away?
What happened there?
No.
Okay, so when I was sheriff back in 1991, I was invited.
I got an invite.
And this happens frequently.
It's called the National Academy.
The FBI National Academy, and they invite law enforcement professionals from all over the world.
My roommate was from Seoul, Korea.
The guy that lived down in the next room from me was from Argentina.
Now, most of them that they invite, they invite probably 30 or 40 from around the world.
But I'm not saying I agree with any of this.
But anyway, the FBI does great training.
That part they still do.
And they did back then.
And I was really glad to go to the training.
It was excellent training.
And my dad got to come to it.
And he was retired from the FBI. He retired back in 1975.
But what I saw, I took a constitutional law class, and the professor gave away way too much.
He was a retired FBI. He was a constitutional law or case law Professor.
Okay.
And I think he was from the University of Virginia where he did that.
And he also spent 20 years in the FBI. So he said at the first day of the class, he goes this.
He says this.
We're going to bypass the basics and get into the more pertinent relative case law studies that That will be more pertinent to your jobs as law enforcement officers.
And I'm sitting there going, how are we going to understand the cases that went to the Supreme Court if we don't understand the intent of the Founding Fathers in promulgating the Constitution in the first place?
And so I didn't say that to the I didn't say that to him, but I wrote a thesis about that, that we're never going to understand this, that the lawyers aren't going to get it.
And one of our constitutional lawyers that used to be associated with us at this CSPOA said that the only problem with lawyers is that they all went to law school.
So you hit the nail on the head about that.
You cannot bypass the basics.
We've got to know what the intent of the Founding Fathers was in putting together the Constitution.
And I like a lot of the case law that we studied, but it still did not focus on, okay, how about a search warrant and that it has to be signed.
These cases talked about exceptions.
They didn't talk about the rule.
When it talked about, especially in the Sixth Amendment, about due process, who in our government is required to make sure the accused is afforded every right in the Sixth Amendment?
A right to a public and speedy trial.
Do you know that there's some states that actually require the case to take place within the first six months?
Yeah.
And then there's others that don't care about that at all.
Yeah.
Which one's correct?
The constitutional version, but if people don't know, I mean, it just seems as though, like, so I think about British law, right?
And the fact that case law is so heavily relied upon, they don't have a constitution.
It seems as though that system has become ours, as opposed to it being a purely American system.
A guy that got a traffic ticket actually hired me to come And help him.
And they actually got me on the witness stand as an expert witness about this.
And then the judge wouldn't let me say anything because the prosecutor kept saying, objection, objection.
And the guy doing it didn't know what he was doing.
He didn't know the protocols.
And so he asked the judge, the guy that got the ticket, suspended license, whatever.
He asked the judge.
Does the Constitution apply in this courtroom?
And I'm sitting on the stand and I looked over at the judge when he answered.
He goes, no!
If you want to challenge the constitutionality of this, you've got to go to a different court.
And this is a judge that used to be a cop and that went to law school and took an oath as a judge to uphold and defend the Constitution.
And for some reason...
He doesn't think that that applies to his position as a judge, even though he was required by law to swear an oath of allegiance to the Constitution when he took his job as a judge.
Oh, but it doesn't apply.
You have to go someplace else for that.
If someone's violating the Constitution and you do nothing about it, judge, You should be arrested.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But it never happens.
I mean, I keep hearing these horror stories coming from courts, and it's become like that.
I guess the exceptions become the rule.
Nobody's overseeing the judges.
It's another judge that's overseeing him that believes the same way.
And so it's really a farce.
And really, when it comes to the court The judges are perverting it entirely.
When I got a ticket once, I told the judge, Your Honor, why is it that my ticket, my citation, was referred to my insurance company?
That's a private company and it has nothing to do with this.
And do you know, Your Honor, that insurance companies lobby To create these traffic laws and the law that we are required to have insurance, that was done by a private lobbyist effort from insurance companies.
And then the judge even said, well, yeah, I suppose that a lot of the laws about our traffic were originated from some insurance companies, but, you know, they're still on the books and we still have to enforce them.
Why?
Why?
You don't have to do that, Your Honor.
You can say, I am not going to be a judge for the insurance companies.
And I'm dismissing this ticket.
And so, you know, they always take on this air that they're king in their courts.
But when it comes to standing for a principle that is guaranteed in the Constitution...
They missed the boat.
And so the corruption is the biggest problem facing America today.
And the greatest threat to our God-given American liberty is our own federal government.
And that stretches now across the country to the court system.
And there's very few judges that really follow and defend and obey the United States Constitution, especially the Bill of Rights.
They don't.
So the root of the issue, I mean, it's like, how did this even happen?
How did we get to this point?
Why?
Because we wanted to focus on making sure that the cop was safe.
You know, so we taught him Firearms instruction.
And that's a huge part of the police academies.
It's about 50%.
I would say 50% of the entire class for three months.
Some academies go six months.
But it's still the same.
Physical fitness and self-defense and firearms instruction are 60-70% of the class.
And then you study...
Criminal code and traffic code.
And that's about it.
And then you go riding with an FTO, field training officer.
Who's dictating that, though?
Who's dictating the fact that the training is all wrong?
I mean, there's got to be groups that are pushing that kind of wrong training.
No, not really.
There's not.
There's not a lot of that going on.
You know, I've pushed it.
Chrisanne Hall has pushed it.
But...
When we did our training in Texas, the sheriffs that came to it loved it and got us rave reviews.
And an undercover An officer from TECOL, the Texas certification for law enforcement, they have a bureaucracy that oversees what they learn.
And at first, he said it was great.
He said it was great training.
Everyone should see it.
And then a complaint was filed to TECOL from Southern Poverty Law Center.
And then they said, oh, yeah.
So then they rescinded the approval that CSPA already had.
Mm-hmm.
Because they didn't want any heat.
They didn't want any controversy.
Wow.
I don't care if they certify us or not.
We still teach it.
And they can't keep me from teaching.
All it does is it doesn't give certification hours to the sheriff's office that receives our training.
Most of the time, they don't care either.
But, you know, it was an added benefit and we did it in Texas under T. Cole's certification approval for about five or six years.
Then they rescinded it.
We didn't stop and we're not going to and they can't stop me.
But this is the problem.
They focus on the logistics of being a cop and kind of what they see in movies and television shows.
And so they focus on, oh, The motto for all of our personal safety training is you go home at night.
And that's far too selfish for me because there's a lot worse things than not going home at night.
And one of them is shooting the wrong suspect or shooting a 12-year-old kid.
And this happened in Cleveland a number of years ago.
Shooting a 12-year-old kid with a fake gun.
A toy gun.
With a toy gun.
And they shot and killed him.
Wow.
And you see, I couldn't live with that.
I don't want to go home after that.
I can't live with that.
I won't.
I want to be, you know, this whole thing about firearms training, too, is like, if the guy in the car makes a sudden move, then you can shoot him.
Yeah.
Where the hell do you get that?
He's trying to get his registration that you told him to get.
So he's reaching over the glove box.
Well, I thought he's reaching for a gun.
Do not say that until if you don't see the gun.
And so they make mistakes in the academy a lot, but the biggest mistake they do is bypass the basics.
We don't teach about patriotism.
We don't teach every single Bill of Rights.
The Bill of Rights applies to cops about 90%.
And so do we have probable cause for a stop?
How about in a DUI checkpoint where you stop everybody?
Do you have probable cause for that stop?
Then you officers and you sheriff and you state police who are running these DUI checkpoints, you are breaking the law.
Because you must have probable cause to stop someone.
And I've trained sheriffs how to do that and still follow the Constitution.
All you have to do is put up a sign, and when you put the notice out that you're going to do it, your cooperation at these checkpoints is voluntary.
And you put a sign up when they're pulled over.
This is voluntary.
If they voluntarily participate, they can give away.
Oh, wow.
I think I lost you, Sheriff.
Sheriff, I think I lost you.
Your signal went down, so one sec.
I'm going to try to reconnect you here.
Oh, it's frozen.
Sorry about that, people.
If you could be patient here, I'm going to...
Oh, here's back here.
Yes.
Hey, hey, you're back now.
Yes.
Okay, so...
But this is so simple for cops to follow the law.
But they, most of the time, refuse to do so.
Yeah.
And so, you know...
But most cops are good people.
I'd say 70, 80% of all cops are good people.
The other 20-25% should never be in that position.
We've got to weed them out.
They make a bad name for the rest of us.
Let me ask you this, Sheriff Mack.
It seems as though we have a serious epidemic of corruption in this country.
Just running this podcast, all I hear is horrible stories on every level.
How do we fix this?
Is there even any fixing this?
Is there a way to go back to our constitutional order?
Another topic we always talk about is the family law courts.
They're not even...
They're not even lawful.
It's just crazy.
It's like a racket.
How do we fix this epidemic that we're facing?
Yeah, like CPS coming and taking children out of homes.
Exactly.
Or for financial gain.
Again, you follow the money and they're making billions of dollars basically stealing people's kids.
A lot of the time- Two years ago, that happened to my grandson.
Really?
Yeah.
But luckily, we were raised in Stink and he only stayed four and a half days.
Oh, wow.
In a foster home.
Wow.
And the family thanked us, sent us a little note, said how much they loved him and whatnot.
But no, all government has gotten out of control, and we need the sheriffs who are truly constitutional to be the leaders in returning us to the Constitution.
They need to be talking to the CPS people.
Don't come in our counties and start taking kids when you have no reason to do so.
And I know some sheriffs who I talked to after my little Mac, named after me, named after our family name, Mac.
Mac, when he was taken, I almost interfered, which would have just put me in jail and he still would have gone.
So I calmed down.
But I told the cops that were there, I said, why are you here?
Oh, to keep the peace.
I said, no, you're not.
You're going to guarantee that these CPS officers can do anything they want.
And I said, my wife and I came there to take Mac because their own website says that they will always give the child to grandparents or some other relative before they take him to foster care.
They would not let me and my wife have our grandson.
We didn't qualify.
Yeah.
The former police detective who specialized in crimes against children, I was not allowed and my wife were not allowed.
And you want to know why they declined us?
Because we didn't agree with their assessment.
Wow.
I know.
And so I asked the officers, I said, you're not here keeping the peace.
You're going to guarantee that these people can kidnap my grandson.
Oh, he's not being kidnapped.
Define the elements of the crime, officer.
Kidnapping.
That would be taking a person or child without the permission of the parents.
Oh.
Guess what you just described?
That's what's going on here.
And officer, you know that my wife and I are qualified to take our grandson and you're not keeping the peace.
You know, so there's a lot of training that needs to go in there and sheriffs with the leadership that sheriffs need to be a true constitutional sheriff.
Those leaders need to be spreading it around to judges and to legislatures and And to bureaucracies like CPS, that this isn't going to happen anymore.
You guys better get better trained because we're not going to allow this anymore.
And they've got to change all these horrible abuses by government.
Yeah.
Other sheriffs have said they don't even call CPS anymore because they're so Nazi-ish.
Really?
I mean, how do we fix this, though?
How do we fix it where, I mean, if we're to say a percentage, 90% of the country's corrupt, 90% of the...
Police departments, because they don't follow the Constitution.
Our courts are a sham.
Family law courts aren't even courts.
They're like a criminal enterprise.
CPS is like a kidnapping and trafficking institution.
And it's all to print money, destroy Americans, destroy American families.
It's like we have enemies amongst us doing this.
How do we fix it when it's on such a wholesale level?
Well, you know, everything seems to dump on the sheriffs, but they've got to.
They've got to take this bull by the horn.
And it wouldn't take that much.
You know, first they want to meet.
We want them to meet with the chiefs of police inside their counties, like Clark County.
There's Las Vegas Metro, and they cover the whole county.
But most of them don't.
Like, Mesquite is also in Clark County.
That's a police department in Mesquite PD. And I think Henderson might have their own police department, but most sheriffs have other police departments inside their county.
And I had three others.
I had Safford, Thatcher, and Pima.
And then also Highway Patrol has an office there.
We want to work together.
And we've got to know, folks, I met with them every month.
I met with all the chiefs and Highway Patrol every month.
And I could have easily brought up any of these problems with CPS and said, you guys, we've got to be on the same page here.
We cannot allow this legalized kidnapping to continue.
And working with schools, I was a school resource officer in Provo, Utah, and I handled 12 different schools.
And so talking with the schools and said, hey, help us identify the kids that are having problems and kids are being abused at home and by others.
And we can work this out and we can work together.
How about meeting with judges?
I met with my judge two or three times, not that often, but I did.
And I said, well, I'm not going to do what you just said to do.
My deputies are not going to just follow your orders and edicts every time.
They work for me.
They don't work for you.
They're not court agents.
They're not clerks of the court.
We work for the executive branch.
You're the judicial.
I don't work for the judicial branch.
I know we have to work together sometimes and I want to do that.
But this training that can happen through leadership from constitutional sheriffs, absolutely vital to make this change in America, Vam, that you're talking about.
It has to happen.
Or America is going to continue to die.
But we have this thing that's happening tomorrow that You know, Kamala Harris could put the nail in the coffin to our Constitution.
And tomorrow is a huge day, and I'm really afraid for tomorrow, for the 6th or the 7th when they finally make their decision.
Maybe it'll be a week from now.
Who knows?
But folks, this is happening tomorrow because the Democrat Party has refused to have anything to do with the Constitution, and they will violate it And every moral tenet that we have in America, if it benefits the Democrat Party.
That's why the Democrats have been aiding and abetting illegal immigration so that they can get a monopoly on voters with the 25, 35 million people that have come in.
They are absolutely getting them registered to vote.
No question.
Yeah, I saw a James O'Keefe piece where basically there was a party in the middle of the street right across from the voting room.
There was a voting location.
All people that don't know how to speak English, all of them being given some kind of form so they could vote, essentially.
And they're voting.
They're voting in mass.
Well, they have a process.
They get them driver's licenses, and then when they get their driver's licenses, they have them registered to vote.
Wow.
I could tell you the states that do that.
Minnesota is the worst one.
California and Minnesota, worst ones.
New York's doing it, and then the mayor, Adams of New York City, oh man, this isn't working out like we thought.
You think?
Yeah, yeah.
Now, let me ask you about, like, your grandson, you know, I mean, that's a heart-wrenching story.
If there's a, and I seriously sympathize with you, Sheriff Mack, I mean, it's just so, you know, we used to see films with, like, Hitler separating parents from children, and we look at that and say, that's a crime against humanity.
But when the crimes against humanity are happening over here, and they are crimes against humanity...
It seems as though it's just business as usual.
I mean, it's absolutely tragic.
So a constitutional sheriff in that kind of situation, what would they have done?
Would they have arrested the CPS officers because they're trying to kidnap?
No, they wouldn't have allowed them to go that far.
First, the easy one would have been, why aren't you guys letting this former detective, specialized in child protection, Why aren't you letting him and his wife take the child?
And it would have been over.
And my wife and I would have taken Mac home.
And then they would have come and contacted us later.
Okay, what are you guys doing to make sure?
It didn't even...
The abuse that they were there about was so minuscule, but it didn't even involve Mac.
And they said this.
Can you guarantee to us...
That that child will be safe tonight in your keeping.
And I said, ask these police officers if they can guarantee the safety of their children in their home.
What a stupid question.
I can't guarantee anything like that.
You want me to handcuff him to my side so I know he won't fall off the chair or fall off the table or ride his bike and wreck and skin his knee?
No one could guarantee that.
Look, I can guarantee you that he will be well cared for.
That won't work.
You can't do that.
They won't take it.
They are so stupid and they're trained to be evil.
And so if the deputies would just be trained, we are there to keep the peace.
And that means making sure that the child stays with family.
And CPS doesn't follow their own rules.
We will help them do that.
So that one's not that hard.
But the sheriffs have got to get their own people trained first.
Yeah.
I mean, when I ran for office and I was knocking on a lot of doors, one of the biggest complaints I'd hear is about this sort of topic where, you know, police officers are out there busting their butts and then, you know, they have these custody issues.
They don't see their kids.
They're paying too much alimony.
Their kids are taken away from them, you know, but yet they're the ones that are in that same situation doing things like what they tried to do to you and your wife.
Right.
It's pretty insane.
And we went to a law firm and we told him that we wanted to sue.
And he goes, and you got your kid back after four and a half days?
We don't have time for you.
We have hundreds of people who never even got their children back.
Ever!
And I'm going, oh my god.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, the first episode of this podcast, Blood Money, I mean, it's about a dad who had all three of his children taken from him.
And it literally cost him $25,000 to go through a court process so he could send Christmas cards to the kids that he doesn't even see.
See, that kind of cruelty and that kind of abuse, that would be not very difficult at all for sheriffs to fix that.
And we, the people, you need to go talk to your governor's office because CPS is run by the governor's office.
Go talk to your governor and say, this is not to happen anymore.
But the bottom line is, boots on the ground, the sheriffs can stop this.
Yeah.
I mean, you are certainly a highly intelligent person.
I've talked to a lot of the sheriffs that work with you, all highly intelligent people.
But one of the things I've heard is that intentionally in the hiring process, they don't like hiring individuals that excel at intelligence.
I mean, is that even true or is that just a vicious rule?
It's not true.
But what happens when you're paying low wages?
You get low wage people.
Okay.
They tested our IQ, and mine was 135.
Wow.
That's obviously above average, but there were some that were 80s and 90s, and we go, you know, okay.
But yeah, some guys would say, oh, I got a good one.
I'm 83.
Oh, my God.
Wow.
You got to be above 100, you know.
But no, it's really not that they look for them.
And we've been accused of that.
But in some deputies right now, in some sheriff's offices, deputies literally start at about $30,000, $33,000, $35,000 a year.
Who do you think you're going to get?
Yeah.
You're not going to get college grads.
You're not going to get people who really are intelligent and have entrepreneurships waiting for them.
You know, no.
So anyway, hey, I don't know how close we're done to finishing, but I've got to run.
Okay, do you mind if I ask you one last question?
One last one.
Okay, I'd love for you, and I just want you to dissect this, if you're even interested in this.
Would you be at all interested in dissecting what occurred to me, as the whole world knows at this point, from the point of view of a constitutional sheriff?
Oh, absolutely, but I don't know if I want to do it with you and me personally.
I will decide from there if I want to do it on the air.
I want you and me to do it together, and then I'll let you know if I feel I should go public with it.
I got you, got you.
I totally respect that.
I would even come to Vegas and meet with you and look at all your videos and we could do it.
We could spend a day going through it.
Awesome, awesome.
Yeah, I really appreciate that, man.
Thank you so much.
Is there anything you want to say in closing?
Websites, you know, social media?
Of course.
Folks, what we want all of you to do is go to CSPOA.org.
Become a member of the CSPOA Posse.
Be part of the solution.
We have very few, you can count on two fingers, how many peaceful and effective solutions we have left.
Yes, pray for Donald Trump, pray for his protection, and pray for our return of this country to a constitutional republic.
Do you think that's what we're going to get with Donald Trump, hopefully returning?
Yeah, I do.
I'm seeing the people he's already working with, and I'm in total favor.
Last time he picked some swamp people that really hurt him and hurt America.
I don't think he's making that mistake this time.
I really like what Elon Musk is talking about.
I love that he's going to review all the bureaucracies and their spending.
That should have happened 50 years ago.
But now it is going to happen.
And I'm thrilled with it.
And there's some sheriffs that should be on his cabinet.
Sheriff Mark Lamb, Sheriff David A. Clark, and I'm going to put in to be the ambassador to Guatemala.
And I think if we really start getting good, honest American people with proven leadership to be part of the Trump administration, we can take this country back.
Amazing.
Amazing.
Praying for it all works out.
Everybody should go out there and vote and, you know, be peaceful out there.
A lot of people I've heard are getting hassled out there.
Peaceful and kind and do the right thing while out there and make sure you represent our movement very well.
Sheriff Mack, thank you so much for coming on to this episode of Blood Money.
I will look forward to interviewing you again in the near future.
Great show.
Thank you.
We'll talk soon, man.
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