DEBRIEFED - Chris Ramsay - Travis Walton - 50 Years After the Fire in the Sky - DEBRIEFED ep. 55
Aired: 2025-09-26
Duration: 01:15:13


=== First Encounter with Flying Saucer (04:48) ===

[00:00:02]  In 1966, I looked out my bedroom window after something had caught my eye.
[00:00:08]  And I looked into the sky, and I remember thinking, that is a flying saucer, because we still called them flying saucers back then.
[00:00:16]  And I stared at it for maybe a minute before looking away and rubbing my eyes, thinking I'm seeing things.
[00:00:24]  But when I looked back up, it was still there before it shot like a bullet into the clouds.
[00:00:31]  And I had these words come into my head that now I realize were not my words.
[00:00:37]  Said everything is fine.
[00:00:38]  It was just a flying tosser.
[00:00:40]  No need to tell anyone because they won't believe you anyway.
[00:00:43]  At that minute, my mother burst in the room, wanting to know where I had been for over an hour.
[00:00:49]  She had been looking for me inside and outside and could find me nowhere, and she was getting ready to call the police.
[00:00:56]  Anyway, I would like to end with this.
[00:00:58]  May you walk in gratitude with a heart full of love, and may the weight of the world not find your shoulders today.
[00:01:08]  Travis Walton.
[00:01:09]  It is an absolute honor to have you in The SCIF here with me today.
[00:01:13]  I am beyond humbled to be here with you.
[00:01:19]  I mean, this is just a really kind of surreal moment for myself, partially because the first movie that got me interested in the phenomenon was Fire in the Sky.
[00:01:30]  Well, this is definitely a unique skiff or set and a fascinating situation here.
[00:01:39]  Let's see what happens.
[00:01:40]  I'm glad you enjoy it.
[00:01:42]  1975, November 5th in Snowflake, Arizona, was a moment that, you know, forever changed, you know, the course of your own history, but so many others as well, including myself, because, you know, without which the movie wouldn't have been made.
[00:01:58]  And I don't think I'd be sitting here talking to you.
[00:02:01]  So for that, I am kind of grateful.
[00:02:04]  But I want to know how do you feel after all these years about that famous night, November 5th?
[00:02:14]  It was definitely changed my life forever, dramatically.
[00:02:18]  You know, it was actually, it wasn't me anymore.
[00:02:24]  It was the new me.
[00:02:25]  You know, it was just transformational.
[00:02:30]  Yeah.
[00:02:33]  I'm just wondering was there ever a point during any of the interviews that you've done and any of the conversations that you've had that looking back on what had happened to you, that you've gained a little bit more insight?
[00:02:46]  Was there ever anything that over the years you went, huh, I never thought about that?
[00:02:52]  Like maybe a smell or a certain feeling or a certain thought that popped into your head that.
[00:02:58]  Probably numerous times, you know.
[00:03:01]  There's been so many of them that it stimulates thought in areas that I hadn't personally soul searched before.
[00:03:11]  Well, it was evolutionary to start with, you know.
[00:03:15]  Some of the early interviews, I was still locked into the early misconception of this experience as, you know, alien monster invasion.
[00:03:28]  And gradually, as I had time to reflect, On what happened and analyze the meaning or purpose of it, you know, it came to me that it wasn't an intentional case of alien creatures firing a weapon at me,
[00:03:52]  but that I had somehow tripped a reaction, maybe an automatic protection device, or as I later thought, perhaps some sort of a.
[00:04:08]  Discharge of a static electricity or some energy discharge from the craft to me because it was at that moment that my head approached the surface of the craft the closest.
[00:04:24]  There's a case in Canada, actually, one of the most famous cases, I would argue the most famous case in Canada, Michelac, the Falcon Lake incident.
[00:04:34]  Have you ever heard of this one?
[00:04:35]  I think I've heard that before.
[00:04:38]  Yeah, because it was a similar sort of encounter, I believe, also.
[00:04:42]  Humanoid blonde beings, as well.
[00:04:44]  But this gentleman who had approached the craft was then also sort of zapped.

=== How Scammers Find Their Targets (02:52) ===

[00:04:51]  And his shirt, I think, now can be found in the National UFO Archive in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
[00:04:59]  David Marlar, he's got the shirt that's all fried and zapped.
[00:05:03]  But this guy had essentially radiation burns from trying to get too close to the craft as well.
[00:05:07]  Well, I did.
[00:05:11]  I still have the same clothing when I was returned, and it was undamaged.
[00:05:15]  It wasn't burnt.
[00:05:16]  And no injuries on my body itself.
[00:05:21]  Although, you know, with a super high tech recovery team, I suppose they could have restored all that before they brought me back.
[00:05:28]  True.
[00:05:29]  That is true.
[00:05:30]  You were missing for five days, if I'm not mistaken, correct?
[00:05:34]  Yeah, five days and six hours.
[00:05:37]  You know, we spend a lot of time digging for information and looking through case files here at Area 52, but here's a secret most people don't realize your personal information is just out there your home address, phone number, even details about your family.
[00:05:53]  They're collected and sold by data brokers without your permission.
[00:05:57]  And it's not just a privacy issue.
[00:05:59]  This is how scammers, stalkers, and identity thieves find their targets.
[00:06:06]  Sure, you could try to clean it up yourself, fine.
[00:06:09]  But that means hundreds of hours of sending requests and forms and follow ups, only for your data to pop right back up again.
[00:06:18]  That's why I use Incogni.
[00:06:20]  Think of them as a covert task force working for you.
[00:06:24]  And here's how it works pretty simple three steps.
[00:06:27]  One, create an account and share just enough info for them to track down your exposed data.
[00:06:32]  Two, give them a one time permission to act on your behalf.
[00:06:36]  And three, sit back.
[00:06:38]  Incogni automatically scrubs your information from hundreds of sites and keeps doing it so it stays gone.
[00:06:45]  And if you've got something specific out there you want to race, their custom removal feature lets you send in a direct link and a dedicated privacy expert will handle it for you.
[00:06:56]  It's risk free for 30 days so you can try it and get a full refund if it's not for you.
[00:07:00]  Go to incogni.comslash area 52 and use code area 52 for 60% off annual plans because remember, they can't harm you.
[00:07:11]  If they can't find you, that's.
[00:07:14]  Do you ever struggle with the amount of time that you were missing versus the information that you remember?
[00:07:24]  Because it seems like there's a huge gap there.
[00:07:27]  Yeah.
[00:07:27]  Well, you know, initially, assuming that I was unconscious or dead for the rest of the time, you know, having occasionally some dreams involving.

=== Memories of Humanoid Beings (08:30) ===

[00:07:43]  Of the subject.
[00:07:45]  And when I first inquired about it, I asked the screenwriter on Fire in the Sky, Do you think these could be memories coming back to me?
[00:07:56]  And he said, Nah, it's probably just doing all these interviews got you thinking about it.
[00:08:02]  And then a while later, I asked him the same question.
[00:08:05]  He says, Oh, yeah, those are probably memories coming back to you.
[00:08:08]  So, you know, he had done some research in the meantime and it changed his opinion on things.
[00:08:14]  But It didn't involve the smaller group of beings.
[00:08:21]  It was involved the more human looking ones, but nothing that formed any clear memory or of, you know, events that made any sense.
[00:08:34]  Yeah.
[00:08:37]  That's so strange.
[00:08:38]  I mean, I think what makes the case so unique, this one, your case, compared to so many others, not only was it witnessed by six other people at the time, not only was there missing time involved, there was a whole search party involved.
[00:08:57]  There was all sorts of really compelling pieces to this case, but the fact that there were multiple.
[00:09:06]  What seems like multiple species involved.
[00:09:10]  And normally, you know, you'd be like, okay, well, that sounds just a little weird.
[00:09:17]  Maybe they're related somehow, but these species individually also show up to other contactees or experiencers in their experiences as well, individually, but never together.
[00:09:29]  What's your best hypothesis on why that is?
[00:09:33]  I think my best hypothesis was that I was panicked.
[00:09:39]  Whatever damage occurred probably interfered with any sort of telepathic control or communication.
[00:09:48]  And I was not going to cooperate with what I perceived to be threatening monsters.
[00:09:53]  So I think that this entity, which appeared human, was brought in because that was all I was ever going to trust.
[00:10:02]  It wasn't going to be them.
[00:10:04]  I was combative.
[00:10:07]  You think that they were trying to subdue you mentally somehow and that the damage you'd sustained prevented.
[00:10:13]  Them from doing that?
[00:10:14]  Yeah.
[00:10:15]  Yeah.
[00:10:15]  I think that I did not detect any sort of messages or feelings from them.
[00:10:21]  So I'm assuming that was because of the extensive damage that I felt like I was dying.
[00:10:29]  You know, it was pretty heavy duty stuff.
[00:10:32]  Otherwise, they could have stopped me from being combative, I would think.
[00:10:38]  Were you in any pain awaking coming out of that?
[00:10:40]  Yeah.
[00:10:40]  Yeah.
[00:10:41]  Pain in my head and chest.
[00:10:42]  I felt like I was dying.
[00:10:45]  What would you describe the pain as?
[00:10:47]  Like migraines or like pressure?
[00:10:51]  Yeah, all of the above.
[00:10:53]  Hard to describe, but definitely something that provokes panic in me that This is definitely not good and getting worse By the second.
[00:11:07]  Yeah, that would be scary.
[00:11:10]  At one point, during that time, you're obviously panicked.
[00:11:14]  Now, reflecting on it, you've had time to really dwell on these thoughts and really look at different reasons why they might have done what they've done.
[00:11:22]  But in that moment, did you think they were causing that pain?
[00:11:26]  Oh, yeah.
[00:11:27]  I associated the pain with them, the horror of all the stories that this type of being had been portrayed with.
[00:11:35]  It was definitely maximum pain.
[00:11:37]  Fear factor.
[00:11:38]  I didn't perceive anything beneficent at that point.
[00:11:44]  It was only after years of reflection that I came to realize that, you know, they could have easily dumped my body off in some asteroid somewhere and let the crew get suspected forever of hiding my body successfully and been the end of it.
[00:12:05]  If the cover up was all they were concerned with, but they.
[00:12:10]  Made up for.
[00:12:11]  They corrected my mistake of getting too close.
[00:12:15]  Wow.
[00:12:17]  You awoke, you see this light above you, you see these figures sort of hovering over you, and through sheer panic and force of wanting to stay alive, you ended up reaching for an object on one of these tables that they had.
[00:12:33]  Yeah.
[00:12:34]  Could you describe in detail what that object looked like and what it felt like?
[00:12:39]  Well, I just needed something club like, and I was, it was, you know, Crude sort of thinking.
[00:12:46]  It seemed like it had a little heft to it.
[00:12:50]  It wasn't real heavy, but it wasn't like a glass tube.
[00:12:55]  It was more like a solid rod of some kind.
[00:13:00]  It had more to it than just a cylinder.
[00:13:03]  But I wasn't looking at it and musing what it was for.
[00:13:10]  I was just something that would threaten them and keep them from getting any closer.
[00:13:17]  And this is a clear object, right?
[00:13:19]  Yeah.
[00:13:20]  So it was like a clear tube, but it wasn't necessarily glass.
[00:13:23]  It was heavier than glass.
[00:13:25]  Yeah.
[00:13:25]  Don't know what it was.
[00:13:27]  There was a variety of other instruments laid out there, some of them looking metallic and twisted, you know, something you might associate with surgical instruments, but yeah.
[00:13:39]  My skin was never perforated that I know of.
[00:13:44]  Yeah.
[00:13:46]  Seeing those instruments, I think would, you know, I've seen a lot of movies.
[00:13:49]  I've, I've, You know, I think many of us would react the same.
[00:13:53]  So at this point, these beings kind of, they're like, we don't want any part of this.
[00:14:00]  We're not meant to throw down.
[00:14:01]  They're tiny little guys, too, right?
[00:14:03]  They're not these, like, you're a towering figure.
[00:14:05]  You're in your 20s.
[00:14:06]  You're throwing logs around during the day.
[00:14:10]  You're a boxer as well.
[00:14:12]  I mean, you're a fighter.
[00:14:15]  These guys didn't really want any part of that, it would seem.
[00:14:18]  Yeah.
[00:14:18]  And so they leave, but before they leave, you had a chance to sort of.
[00:14:26]  See what they were wearing and see sort of their physical appearance.
[00:14:30]  Can you describe?
[00:14:33]  My attention was riveted on their faces, looking for signs of expression, threat, you know, what were they looking at, that kind of stuff, which was very devoid of expression.
[00:14:44]  So, but that was what I was paying the most attention to.
[00:14:47]  It seemed to be sort of a loose fitting, orangish brown coverall sort of a thing.
[00:14:57]  But their faces not revealing any emotion was naturally perceived as a threat.
[00:15:07]  You know, if you're confronted with people who might be associated with the pain that you're feeling, the serious question of, Am I going to survive this?
[00:15:23]  And then to have no expression made it seem very grim, like.
[00:15:30]  A threat.
[00:15:31]  When humans confront each other without expression, it's considered threatening because a normal reaction is to smile or at least frown or in some way signal your intentions.
[00:15:43]  But it took me a number of years to figure out well, you know, if they're telepathic, they don't need expression to communicate with each other.
[00:15:55]  It's an obsolete method of communication, rather.
[00:16:01]  Crude and primitive, if you go to think about it, how complete and rich a full telepathic communication path would be.

=== Telepathy Without Facial Expressions (04:57) ===

[00:16:13]  Yeah.
[00:16:16]  Did you, so on these, on the loose fitting jumpers is interesting too.
[00:16:20]  I always assumed they were just like skin tight jumpers, kind of like, you know, the ones you hear about normally, but loose fitting is interesting.
[00:16:27]  Did you, on these jumpers, did you notice an emblem?
[00:16:31]  Or a sigil or no insignia, no insignia of that nature.
[00:16:36]  And uh, um, were how they dressed have anything to do with uh, any activity they might have outside of the craft or not?
[00:16:47]  I don't know, right?
[00:16:49]  So these beings they they scurry sort of through a door, yeah.
[00:16:56]  Uh, this door opens and closes, or was this just an opening?
[00:16:59]  It was just an opening, just an opening, and then you hurriedly.
[00:17:04]  And now, first of all, how high is this room?
[00:17:07]  Because you're a tall guy.
[00:17:09]  These are short beings, I assume.
[00:17:10]  Very low ceiling, very small, very small.
[00:17:14]  Cramped space.
[00:17:15]  And the table itself claustrophobic.
[00:17:17]  Yeah.
[00:17:20]  And it had sort of like a humid nature to it, right?
[00:17:23]  In the room, sort of like a hard to breathe, kind of like denser atmosphere, it would seem.
[00:17:29]  And the table was low, closer to the floor, you know?
[00:17:34]  Were your legs hanging off the table?
[00:17:36]  Well, no, but it wasn't high enough off the table.
[00:17:44]  When I rolled off of it and stood up, you know, it was not far to the floor.
[00:17:49]  I mean, it's not normal table height, I'd say.
[00:17:53]  But the length of the table was human length.
[00:17:56]  Yeah.
[00:17:58]  Found that to be interesting.
[00:18:01]  And there was a light above me, not bright.
[00:18:08]  It seemed to increase my pain to look in that direction, but I think that had something to do with my injury, not with the brightness of the light.
[00:18:19]  Right.
[00:18:22]  So you find yourself now turning down this hallway, hopefully finding an exit, getting out of here.
[00:18:31]  And this is like a rounded, sort of narrow hallway, if I'm not mistaken.
[00:18:37]  Yeah.
[00:18:38]  And I was planning an escape in that direction.
[00:18:42]  I mean, I made it as far as this, what's been interpreted as a.
[00:18:50]  Navigation room, or maybe a control room, or something of that nature, but something that was capable of viewing what was called a star map, or maybe simply a view of where it was in space.
[00:19:11]  But movement of one lever had the effect of moving the star pattern.
[00:19:20]  And it moved not swirling among, you know, like different.
[00:19:25]  If so many, it wasn't assuming a different pattern.
[00:19:28]  It was just the whole pattern rotating.
[00:19:32]  But that was very brief.
[00:19:36]  It was startling and not at all what I was after.
[00:19:40]  I was looking for some way to open a door and get out of there.
[00:19:44]  And that was, these controls were on this chair that was in the center of the room.
[00:19:49]  Yeah.
[00:19:49]  This low back sort of chair with these.
[00:19:53]  With what seemed like maybe joysticks or like controls or something on them.
[00:19:57]  And you just kind of like panicked and pressed the buttons to try and figure out a way out.
[00:20:02]  Yeah.
[00:20:03]  And that triggered, I don't know if it triggered, but almost immediately the doorway that I'd come through, which was lighter out in the hallway, darkened because someone entered.
[00:20:17]  It was what I took to be a rescuer, a human looking being.
[00:20:22]  And, uh, I ran up to him just assuming that he was there to save me from these monsters.
[00:20:31]  And I immediately started screaming, babbling, begging questions about what was going on.
[00:20:43]  But I didn't get any response, which wasn't too alarming because he wore a helmet over his head.
[00:20:55]  So I thought maybe he can't hear me with that on or even speak with it on or be heard.
[00:21:01]  So when he took me by the arm to lead me out of there, I was only too happy to cooperate.

=== The Rescuer Among Aliens (02:32) ===

[00:21:11]  Well, the description of this being struck me as kind of unique because we do hear about, you know, ever since the 1950s,
[00:21:33]  there have been, you know, contactees who, We're in contact with beings of the same sort of nature, tall, sort of muscular, blonde figures that wore sort of tight fitting suits.
[00:21:48]  I'm reminded of Adamski's, George Adamski's earlier contacts and so many others.
[00:21:56]  But the one thing that stands out here is this sort of helmet, which I found really interesting because there's a case which I shared with you before in 1954.
[00:22:08]  A case in Staffordshire, England, where this lady and her two children, well, she was called outside by her two children and they're like, Mommy, look, there's a flying saucer.
[00:22:17]  And she goes, You know, don't be stupid.
[00:22:19]  Those don't exist.
[00:22:20]  And she looks up and she sees a silver saucer and it's tilted towards them like this.
[00:22:27]  And in the saucer are two people who had these Page Boy Bob haircuts.
[00:22:34]  So, like, kind of like straight hair, straight golden hair, tight fitting blue jumpers.
[00:22:42]  And what she described as a fishbowl over their heads.
[00:22:45]  Wow.
[00:22:46]  So these human looking beings fit the verbal description I provided.
[00:22:51]  Now, whether this was an actual being, some sort of robot or android created by the alien, or an actual intervention, I immediately took it to be an intervention, a rescuer forcibly coming in to save me from them.
[00:23:11]  But in hindsight, it may have been.
[00:23:15]  They're powerless to help me because I'm in a panic and won't cooperate.
[00:23:20]  So they get the only thing that I'm going to cooperate with is something that looks more like myself, whether that was a robot or a species very similar to humans, or even someone representing some American agency, secret agency of some kind.

=== Powerless to Help in Panic (08:45) ===

[00:23:44]  Who knows?
[00:23:45]  But I was.
[00:23:47]  That was correct.
[00:23:48]  I was immediately going to cooperate with them and not with these creatures.
[00:23:56]  So I find it interesting that you would assume that the creatures were the ones in charge and that these human ones would be the ones that they summoned and not vice versa.
[00:24:10]  Like, I mean, instinctively, and this comes from zero knowledge, zero personal firsthand knowledge, but I would assume that, like, The ones doing the menial tasks, such as perhaps putting you back together and fixing you up, would be perhaps working for the human like ones.
[00:24:28]  Yeah, there's all kinds of scenarios we can imagine, you know, and many of them are equally fitting the facts of the case.
[00:24:42]  Yeah.
[00:24:42]  But they didn't speak.
[00:24:44]  I was certainly screaming all kinds of stuff.
[00:24:47]  But, um, No, nothing that confirms any particular theory.
[00:24:55]  What's something that you screamed at them?
[00:24:57]  Who are you?
[00:24:59]  What is this?
[00:24:59]  What's going on?
[00:25:00]  You know, this is killing me.
[00:25:04]  I'm dying, that kind of stuff.
[00:25:06]  Wow.
[00:25:09]  And so this was a male who then took you into a separate room.
[00:25:14]  Now, there was a door that opened here.
[00:25:15]  Yeah.
[00:25:17]  Did the door open vertically?
[00:25:19]  No.
[00:25:20]  No.
[00:25:20]  To the side?
[00:25:21]  Yeah.
[00:25:21]  Okay.
[00:25:23]  Was it a round opening or like a square?
[00:25:26]  Do you remember?
[00:25:27]  No, it was more like a doorway.
[00:25:29]  Just a regular doorway.
[00:25:30]  Just wide enough for us to get through.
[00:25:34]  Did it make a sound upon opening?
[00:25:36]  I don't remember.
[00:25:37]  Don't remember any sound.
[00:25:39]  I don't remember hearing it, but I was making a lot of noise.
[00:25:43]  Yeah.
[00:25:44]  You're putting up a fuss.
[00:25:44]  Yeah.
[00:25:46]  Yeah.
[00:25:46]  Rightfully so, I would say.
[00:25:48]  So tell me what happens next.
[00:25:53]  Well, I was taken out of the craft down this steep ramp into a large hangar like area.
[00:26:06]  Now, I don't know whether this was.
[00:26:09]  A larger craft, part of a building somewhere.
[00:26:14]  The lighting came from windows that curved.
[00:26:20]  The room was shaped like a quarter of a cylinder laid on its side.
[00:26:26]  So if you look straight at the wall, it would have curved up and become the ceiling overhead.
[00:26:34]  The light being given off was very much like sunlight.
[00:26:39]  Not terribly bright, nothing that would hurt your eyes to look at, but it was a soft light that lit up the area.
[00:26:47]  I wasn't studying the look of things.
[00:26:50]  I was very concerned with where I was being taken and this feeling of injury that I was dealing with.
[00:26:58]  Do you think that in that state you were, you had already been sort of passed out for a long time, or do you think that was like near the beginning of?
[00:27:12]  That would be a guess.
[00:27:14]  Yeah.
[00:27:15]  Probably not immediately afterwards.
[00:27:19]  The force of what hit me was so powerful.
[00:27:24]  The crew said they immediately screamed at each other it killed him, he's dead.
[00:27:29]  My body felt like a crumpled up rag.
[00:27:35]  So, whatever was undertaken to revive me, At least been partially successful, but still feeling very injured.
[00:27:48]  And then I regained consciousness and then became a threat to my rescuers, as I assumed later.
[00:28:01]  So, this place that they take you, which is, I assume, some type of hangar, and like you said, don't know if it's some type of mothership situation or if it's on another planet or underground, it could have been anywhere.
[00:28:12]  The lighting seemed like sunlight, but could have also been artificial, much like the sort of simulation of daylight that we have here.
[00:28:21]  And You noticed several other craft, what seemed like several other crafts, sort of lined up at these docks.
[00:28:29]  Yeah.
[00:28:30]  Can you describe those crafts?
[00:28:33]  I didn't study the details.
[00:28:35]  I was very concerned with where I was being taken, but they were very silvery and rounded, like you might see in a glob of mercury, you know, a very smooth surface.
[00:28:51]  Like the bean in Chicago?
[00:28:53]  Yeah.
[00:28:54]  Something like that.
[00:28:54]  I don't know.
[00:28:55]  But I assumed in my interpretation that just glancing over there and seeing this, that they were rounded, silvery disks.
[00:29:06]  But in hindsight, I couldn't see behind them, so I don't know how long they were.
[00:29:12]  It's possible they could have been sort of more of an extended sphere kind of a look.
[00:29:19]  Hmm.
[00:29:19]  Yeah, like an oblong sort of shape.
[00:29:25]  Yeah.
[00:29:26]  People keep using the term tic tac these days, but, you know, an elongated, rounded doom.
[00:29:34]  A pill.
[00:29:34]  Yeah, like a pill.
[00:29:40]  But I don't know.
[00:29:42]  Couldn't see that deep.
[00:29:43]  Didn't look that far.
[00:29:44]  Wasn't paying that much attention.
[00:29:46]  Where are you taking me?
[00:29:48]  It was through some doors down a hallway.
[00:29:52]  To a room where there were some other people dressed like him, except not wearing helmets.
[00:30:01]  He was the only one who ever wore a helmet.
[00:30:03]  Right.
[00:30:05]  And so relieved that at last, here's somebody without a helmet that can hear me and answer my questions.
[00:30:14]  Began firing away the same questions again.
[00:30:17]  But this just a matter of seconds was going on from the time I was handed over to them to where I was forced down on the table.
[00:30:26]  And I was fighting them.
[00:30:28]  I was resisting.
[00:30:29]  And it wasn't too hard for them.
[00:30:32]  They were much stronger than me.
[00:30:33]  I was in a very weakened condition at that point.
[00:30:38]  And the mask that pushed over my face, I think, caused me to pass out.
[00:30:48]  And that was the last I remembered.
[00:30:52]  It's interesting that they had, like, what seems like an analog way to anesthetize you rather than.
[00:30:59]  You know, what we hear about with so many people, like they just like shut you down mentally.
[00:31:03]  But again, you know, maybe they didn't have that capacity with you for whatever reason.
[00:31:07]  Yeah.
[00:31:08]  If they had had that capacity, and maybe they could have completed what work needed to be done right there on the original table.
[00:31:15]  Yeah.
[00:31:15]  Without a fuss.
[00:31:17]  Yeah.
[00:31:19]  Huh.
[00:31:22]  There was a woman there as well, right?
[00:31:24]  Yeah, appeared to be female.
[00:31:26]  But all of them with sort of idealized human physical builds to them.
[00:31:35]  The artwork got a little carried away, I think.
[00:31:40]  But basically, very healthy, strong looking people that didn't have very much trouble overpowering me.
[00:31:50]  Which is surprising because you're, I mean, you're obviously in a weakened state, but in such a panic, you'd think adrenaline would kick in anyways and you'd be able to, you know, muster some strength up.
[00:32:00]  But yeah, the adrenaline was what was keeping me upright.
[00:32:04]  Yeah.
[00:32:05]  On the floor.
[00:32:07]  Hey, quick thing before we get back into it for the next three days, we're offering free worldwide shipping on everything at area52.shop.
[00:32:16]  Doesn't matter where you are, we will cover the shipping cost.
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[00:32:26]  Let's get back into the podcast.

=== Free Worldwide Shipping Offer (10:16) ===

[00:32:30]  Would you say that their facial features were normal or was there any abnormalities?
[00:32:36]  Was there a heightened forehead, large eyes?
[00:32:40]  No, nothing of that sort.
[00:32:42]  Just a sort of similarity to them, like a familial similarity.
[00:32:47]  Yeah.
[00:32:49]  But not in a plastic, synthetic looking way.
[00:32:55]  Sort of like brother sister type deal.
[00:32:56]  Yeah, something like that.
[00:32:58]  Something like that.
[00:32:59]  Huh.
[00:33:02]  So then you remember sort of being on the ground outside back on Earth, it seems, right?
[00:33:12]  Yeah.
[00:33:12]  And then looking up, now you're seeing again the same craft that initially had injured you.
[00:33:19]  I don't think so.
[00:33:20]  I think it was a different craft.
[00:33:21]  It was a different craft.
[00:33:22]  It was shinier.
[00:33:23]  It was more.
[00:33:24]  Of that polished chrome liquid mercury look.
[00:33:30]  And a light went off.
[00:33:37]  And I mean, first I noticed a light coming from above immediately when I regained consciousness.
[00:33:44]  I looked to see where the light was coming from, but it actually went off before I could look completely in that direction.
[00:33:53]  But in time to see this silvery, unlit, not glowing craft.
[00:34:00]  I shoot straight up into the sky.
[00:34:04]  And from that position there on that highway, I was able to recognize the town nearest where this whole thing happened.
[00:34:16]  Five days, six hours later.
[00:34:17]  Yeah.
[00:34:22]  Wow.
[00:34:24]  Now, I know you've been telling the story for a very long time.
[00:34:29]  And I just want to say how much I appreciate you going through that.
[00:34:33]  It means a lot to me.
[00:34:35]  And I'm sure to a lot of people to hear that story once again.
[00:34:38]  It's interesting, compelling, fascinating, and terrifying all at the same time.
[00:34:43]  I've worked at not embellishing it or extending beyond what.
[00:34:47]  I actually experienced.
[00:34:49]  If I speculate about the meaning of it or why something happened, I try to identify the things that I'm not certain of, that I have no direct knowledge of.
[00:35:00]  But this is what happened, and I survived it.
[00:35:06]  Now, the next thing to follow after you make a phone call, after they find you and you're brought home safely, this thing, This becomes a massive, massive story on a really big scale very, very quickly.
[00:35:26]  We're talking like news outlets and reporters and everybody trying to get the scoop of what would seem like one of the most compelling stories of alien abduction that anyone's ever witnessed.
[00:35:39]  In those first few days, you're obviously still trying to come to terms with what happened.
[00:35:44]  You're unsure in a very delicate condition, you know, just basically incoherent.
[00:35:53]  And not kind of tonic, actually.
[00:35:59]  You know, my brother was very considerate in not pressing me to open up about what I had experienced.
[00:36:11]  It was the hypnosis that began soon after, and the technique that was used there was a major turning point in my recovery in terms of the constant stress I was feeling.
[00:36:28]  The hypnotist had me relate events that occurred aboard the craft as an observer rather than as an experiencer.
[00:36:41]  And that separated me from the threat of what was going on and the pain and the danger and all that.
[00:36:54]  That was a major turning point.
[00:36:57]  From then on, I was.
[00:36:59]  Much more able to handle memories of it and speak of it.
[00:37:07]  Yeah.
[00:37:11]  Whew.
[00:37:11]  That's heavy, man.
[00:37:13]  Yeah.
[00:37:14]  It's been heavy for 50 years.
[00:37:16]  Yeah.
[00:37:17]  I'm, you know, I'll be honest, sitting here with you and hearing you go through this, you know, I can sense that even today it's still very, very heavy for you.
[00:37:27]  Well, for some people, they're disappointed.
[00:37:29]  I don't have messages.
[00:37:31]  You know, good news, bad news.
[00:37:35]  It was, Enigmatic to say the least, and still is.
[00:37:42]  What keeps you after all this?
[00:37:45]  What's the one thing that keeps you grounded the most?
[00:37:47]  What keeps you like, keeps your feet on the ground?
[00:37:50]  What keeps my feet on the ground is family.
[00:37:52]  You know, my family has grown.
[00:37:54]  You know, I've married, had four children, and 18 grandchildren.
[00:37:59]  And I really enjoy the family and family activities and seeing them learn and grow and their amazing abilities.
[00:38:10]  What's when you got back and, you know, after the whole sort of ordeal was, I wouldn't say done because it really never ended, but what was one of the things that you looked forward to doing when you got back home, when you had your wits about everything?
[00:38:30]  What were you thinking like, man, I just want to, you know, sit back and have a beer?
[00:38:34]  Like, what was like the one thing you were looking forward to the most?
[00:38:37]  I didn't have a beer.
[00:38:40]  I immersed myself in work.
[00:38:42]  Yeah.
[00:38:44]  It was a way of focusing my attention and thoughts on something that weren't memories or struggling to make sense of what had happened.
[00:38:54]  So it was.
[00:38:54]  What kind of work?
[00:38:58]  Any kind of work I was doing at the time.
[00:39:00]  I worked at the molding mill for seven years.
[00:39:04]  I can't remember the number of years, but also at the paper mill.
[00:39:10]  But I would take all of the overtime I could get working weekends.
[00:39:14]  And over time, constantly to just fill my life with work.
[00:39:24]  Keep your mind busy.
[00:39:25]  Yeah.
[00:39:25]  Keep me thinking about something else.
[00:39:28]  Yeah.
[00:39:29]  All the time worrying about is there going to be some physical damage that's going to show up later?
[00:39:38]  And it didn't materialize.
[00:39:40]  As a matter of fact, in spite of this heavy workload, I never called in sick one time for 15, 20 years there.
[00:39:51]  Yeah, like they'd given you some type of like really super immune.
[00:39:56]  Or maybe work's good for you.
[00:39:57]  Maybe that's it.
[00:39:59]  Maybe work is the answer.
[00:40:02]  Yeah.
[00:40:02]  Yeah.
[00:40:03]  When you work so much, sometimes you can't afford to get sick.
[00:40:05]  Yeah.
[00:40:06]  Yeah.
[00:40:08]  Wow.
[00:40:10]  You know, my father, he was 30 years in the military.
[00:40:17]  He served in the Canadian Armed Forces for 30 years.
[00:40:20]  He passed away last month.
[00:40:22]  Oh.
[00:40:22]  Thank you.
[00:40:24]  It was pretty sudden.
[00:40:27]  It was a cancer and whatnot, but he had dealt with a lot being overseas, seeing some really foul stuff, his tour in Afghanistan, his multiple tours, and the Gulf War and all of this.
[00:40:44]  I can't help but notice that there's a sort of.
[00:40:49]  Similar cloud that sometimes I feel like looms over you when you go over this story.
[00:40:56]  Like there is something that I don't know.
[00:41:01]  It just seems really.
[00:41:04]  Do you ever push that aside?
[00:41:06]  Do you ever just.
[00:41:06]  Well, you can definitely conclude that it didn't light up my life.
[00:41:12]  It was something that I wish hadn't happened.
[00:41:17]  And I regret the impulse that made me jump out of that truck.
[00:41:22]  I wish I. Had not gotten out of the truck.
[00:41:27]  But it happened.
[00:41:30]  I can't unhappen it.
[00:41:31]  And so I've done the best to make something good come of it, maybe help people.
[00:41:44]  Well, I'm sorry you went through that.
[00:41:46]  I'm glad you're here, though.
[00:41:49]  Well, me too.
[00:41:50]  I'm sure my family is glad I'm here, too.
[00:41:56]  Yeah, I'm sure they are.
[00:41:56]  Without that, They wouldn't be here.
[00:41:58]  That's true.
[00:42:00]  Now you've overcome quite a bit to be sitting here and talking about this today.
[00:42:05]  So it's pretty commendable.
[00:42:08]  Yeah.
[00:42:08]  Well, thank you.
[00:42:09]  Yeah.
[00:42:12]  So after all of this, you know, this goes by.
[00:42:18]  I mean, you're dealing with this.
[00:42:19]  You've seen your fair share of, you know, fanatics come at you and even debunkers and all sorts of people who, you know, have it out for Travis Walton or want a piece of Travis's story.
[00:42:34]  Is there a story that sticks out to you as being like a remarkable sort of standout story of a fan interaction or somebody that?
[00:42:43]  Has interacted with you in a strange way?

=== Humanity and Cooperative Development (15:13) ===

[00:42:46]  Nothing I can think of in that way.
[00:42:50]  There's many that do stand out.
[00:42:54]  There's a lot of remarkable things that have occurred over time.
[00:42:57]  And one thing I won't do is point for people to what I consider to be the best cases or the worst cases.
[00:43:10]  That's not my department.
[00:43:12]  I always felt that.
[00:43:14]  The wrong that was done to me was people passing judgment on what happened to me, and they didn't have the basic facts.
[00:43:22]  They didn't even know what happened.
[00:43:24]  So, how can you criticize something you didn't study first?
[00:43:27]  So, I resolved to not be someone who would do that.
[00:43:34]  I'm not going to judge any case I don't study.
[00:43:36]  And I was way too preoccupied with studying my own case, you know what I mean?
[00:43:43]  Coping with it and trying to figure out what it all meant.
[00:43:46]  So, I swore off of studying other cases and other events.
[00:43:54]  I believe there are other cases.
[00:43:57]  And there's a lot of other things that get lumped into this phenomenon, some of them rather mundane fiction, or people who mistake ordinary things for extraterrestrial visitors.
[00:44:13]  There might even be a good deal of.
[00:44:22]  Flying craft that are of United States aerospace sorts of military vehicles.
[00:44:32]  So, but there's a hardcore reality to this phenomenon.
[00:44:39]  People need to wise up and realize not because of what we're seeing here, but just common sense.
[00:44:48]  You know, don't be prejudiced against the idea that there's life out there.
[00:44:52]  You know, we're one planet out of.
[00:44:55]  Millions upon millions of billions of planets, stars, that, you know, scientists, in the calculations, it's just grown and grown and grown to where the idea that a universe this vast could contain one tiny little blue sphere called Earth, that has Earth on it and all the rest of it is just to sparkle in our night skies,
[00:45:23]  is an absurd kind of reasoning.
[00:45:26]  I agree.
[00:45:26]  It's far more outlandish Outlandish than the initial reaction people had to what happened to me.
[00:45:34]  Right.
[00:45:35]  Yeah.
[00:45:36]  Yeah.
[00:45:37]  It's way crazier to think that there's nothing out there.
[00:45:39]  Yeah.
[00:45:39]  That's what's crazy.
[00:45:41]  Absolutely.
[00:45:42]  That's what's wildly imaginative.
[00:45:44]  Of course, there's something else.
[00:45:46]  There are lots of something else.
[00:45:47]  Yeah.
[00:45:48]  Probably an infinite amount.
[00:45:49]  Yeah.
[00:45:50]  Let me ask you this.
[00:45:53]  What do you think of what's going on with like Congress and stuff?
[00:45:56]  You follow any of that?
[00:45:57]  I'm hearing stuff about it.
[00:45:59]  I didn't actually make a point of setting for the hearings or congressional hearings or anything.
[00:46:07]  I kind of knew what to expect.
[00:46:10]  But I think it's good that they addressed it in a serious fashion and said things that help people take a more objective approach.
[00:46:24]  Look at things.
[00:46:29]  And it's just part of the process that needs to go on until there's general acceptance in humans that we're not the only intelligent life in the universe.
[00:46:43]  Yeah.
[00:46:44]  Is that ever frustrating to you?
[00:46:47]  Very, because I know the nature of intelligence is to be curious and to want to know and to explore and not just.
[00:46:59]  Not just human intelligence.
[00:47:01]  I think these other intelligences, why else would they come here?
[00:47:06]  I don't think they're here to take over.
[00:47:10]  They've been here for many, many, many years and haven't done so, and they could easily do so overnight and we'd never know what hit us.
[00:47:20]  So, yeah.
[00:47:22]  Do you ever get frustrated with people's sort of skepticism after, you know, objectively having a real experience?
[00:47:31]  To have people come to you and say, that's not real?
[00:47:33]  Is that, does that ever frustrate you or does it, you kind of just, is that water off a duck's back at this point?
[00:47:38]  Well, you know, be surprised how many people don't dare say that to me.
[00:47:44]  You know, I don't entertain that kind of ridiculous attitude.
[00:47:47]  Yeah.
[00:47:48]  If you got something to say, have it be based on some sort of facts and reasoning.
[00:47:55]  Everything needs to be based on facts.
[00:47:59]  Do you have true facts, all the facts, and valid reasoning?
[00:48:03]  And that's been the one thing that was missing in the program to discredit me, and one thing that is required to understand this phenomenon and our place in this vast, vast universe.
[00:48:22]  Why do you think there is a lack of physical evidence?
[00:48:27]  Because I always assume there's been so many cases, there's hundreds of thousands of cases, there's so many people who've reported things.
[00:48:37]  It almost seems like every time someone's about to get something, it just like slips out of their hand for some reason.
[00:48:43]  And in almost like a comical fashion, like at this point, where I'm like, this is, there seems to be something preventing us from knowing.
[00:48:51]  Well, you know, even science fiction writers were aware of the earth shattering, to coin a term, effect that this would have on society to be visited by an intelligent and superior form of life from somewhere else.
[00:49:08]  Even in the case of like Star Trek, they had this thing called the non interference directive.
[00:49:14]  The prime directive, yeah.
[00:49:15]  Yeah, the prime directive.
[00:49:16]  They would come visit planets and disguise their presence in a way so as to not disrupt the normal development.
[00:49:25]  And although it was all fiction, definitely makes sense that there would be something of that nature.
[00:49:33]  So the phenomenon we're encountering is them hinting that there's.
[00:49:41]  Other life out there, but never confirming it so outrightly undeniable that it causes the massive disruption that would naturally occur.
[00:49:52]  What do you think our prime directive is?
[00:49:55]  Is it getting rid of nukes?
[00:49:57]  Because it's definitely not discovering them.
[00:49:59]  Well, it needs to be.
[00:50:01]  Most governments are, their prime directive is CYA.
[00:50:06]  I mean, they're in position designed to.
[00:50:10]  Defend themselves politically.
[00:50:17]  But, you know, there is our safety at stake, and they could make the wrong move that could make things much worse.
[00:50:26]  And in my view, keeping the lid on things to the degree that they have and have not in some cases is probably for the best.
[00:50:39]  Do you think, because like Star Wars or Star Trek, rather, they would seek to contact a civilization once they hit warp drive, right?
[00:50:47]  That's like the we're going to wait.
[00:50:49]  And as soon as you develop warp drive, we're going to come in and be like, hey, welcome to the family.
[00:50:54]  Glad you made it.
[00:50:56]  Take care of you now and welcome you into the Federation.
[00:50:58]  Is that the story?
[00:50:59]  That's the idea.
[00:51:01]  I never followed it that way.
[00:51:03]  Well, okay.
[00:51:04]  Well, you don't have to, but that's the sort of threshold that civilizations, the marker.
[00:51:12]  There must be one.
[00:51:13]  What do you think ours is?
[00:51:14]  I think ours is when we find it for ourselves and demonstrate our worthiness.
[00:51:20]  The warlike, violent character of humanity is sadly.
[00:51:28]  Way, way too out of balance with.
[00:51:31]  I mean, they might even be wanting to quarantine us because of the, you know, at any one time, you've got a hundred wars going on, and the daily topic of entertainment is battles and wars and murders and murder mysteries.
[00:51:47]  And good grief, you know, there's so much more stuff that should be keenly interesting to us without resorting to those kinds of things constantly.
[00:51:59]  Even our language is colored with.
[00:52:02]  The words that parallel aggression.
[00:52:06]  Maybe that's why they've sequestered Earth to the outer reaches of the Milky Way.
[00:52:19]  Maybe it gets more peaceful as you go towards the center.
[00:52:23]  We can do much better.
[00:52:25]  Yeah, we can do much better.
[00:52:26]  We have to do much better.
[00:52:28]  Yeah.
[00:52:29]  Yeah.
[00:52:30]  That.
[00:52:30]  That seems to be the message that every contactee has ever had.
[00:52:37]  I know there was no telepathic relay in your case, and there doesn't have to be to understand that there was some type of benevolent action at hand in at least bringing you back, if not saving your life.
[00:52:51]  Do you believe there is some type of malevolent force out there as well, kind of interacting with us?
[00:52:59]  No.
[00:52:59]  And I know there's people who would disagree with me.
[00:53:03]  There's good aliens, bad aliens, but I think.
[00:53:06]  Really high intelligence makes aggression and evil too stupid to be done.
[00:53:16]  When you get to a certain level of development, those kinds of things are just not an option any longer.
[00:53:26]  Just common sense.
[00:53:27]  Yeah.
[00:53:28]  Like cooperation gets us further.
[00:53:29]  Yeah.
[00:53:30]  It doesn't have to be a moral evaluation, it's a practical thing, at least.
[00:53:36]  Yeah, it's well put.
[00:53:40]  That's true.
[00:53:40]  We get a lot further if we cooperate rather than like survival of the fittest.
[00:53:44]  Yeah.
[00:53:45]  Yeah.
[00:53:45]  Especially the higher tech we get.
[00:53:48]  You know, we're already at the brink with the invention of the nuclear weapon.
[00:53:54]  The capacity to destroy ourselves and the entire planet is way ahead of our moral and ethical development, our ability to communicate and solve problems with With reason, facts, consideration, those kinds of things.
[00:54:16]  Yeah, we're developing technology.
[00:54:18]  Our technology is outpacing our moral aptitude.
[00:54:23]  Yes, absolutely.
[00:54:25]  Yeah.
[00:54:25]  You think the solution there is slow down technology or increase moral aptitude?
[00:54:31]  Well, I don't think you can stop the development of the technology.
[00:54:38]  So we really need to accelerate our.
[00:54:41]  Our ability to handle it properly.
[00:54:44]  Right.
[00:54:45]  What do you think of AI and all of this as someone who's, you know?
[00:54:49]  AI is scary to me because it might cause us to outstrip our moral development excessively in a destructive fashion.
[00:55:00]  There's always that tiny minority, those power hungry freaks that will do anything to dominate all the rest of humanity.
[00:55:11]  And they're not going to hesitate to.
[00:55:16]  Weaponize whatever comes along.
[00:55:19]  So I hope wiser heads prevail.
[00:55:24]  Yeah, same here.
[00:55:26]  Well, with voices like yours, you know, telling your story and doing the work you do.
[00:55:32]  And I think, you know, if nothing else, you're putting up a good fight.
[00:55:39]  And people, I think, are more and more in droves sort of listening to this message, at least the audience that we have here and a lot of the people that, you know, I've interacted with.
[00:55:50]  It almost seems like the very few that want this, you know, power.
[00:55:57]  I don't know.
[00:55:59]  It seems like it's to me, every time I speak to people, I think people are good.
[00:56:04]  You know, I see people individually and they're good.
[00:56:06]  I don't meet a lot of evil people.
[00:56:09]  Yeah, there is a kind of natural process where the evil float to the top.
[00:56:18]  They're a thin skim on the top of a vast ocean of humanity.
[00:56:23]  But the ones who gravitate and wind up being in charge are the ones least qualified, least worthy to be directing the rest of us.
[00:56:32]  They're people whose primary objective in life is to dominate others, control others, to take what they have, control what they have, all that kind of stuff.
[00:56:49]  The most destructive drives in humanity are empowered by.
[00:56:57]  Centralized, dictate our minds to that.
[00:57:00]  Do you think the non human intelligence that's been interacting with us would intervene at some point?
[00:57:15]  I doubt it.
[00:57:16]  Yeah, I think we have what's called free agency.
[00:57:23]  That includes to destroy ourselves or to save ourselves.
[00:57:27]  We got to figure it out ourselves.
[00:57:29]  Yeah.
[00:57:31]  Well, that's a tough lesson.
[00:57:34]  That's some tough love right there.
[00:57:36]  Yeah, but yeah, I mean, it might be the only way out of it.
[00:57:41]  You know, you don't get very far if everything's handed to you.
[00:57:47]  All right, Travis, I'm going to go and turn on the camera back here.
[00:57:50]  We got a few questions from the audience members that were super stoked that you're sitting here.
[00:57:55]  And so I'll pull up some questions for you if you don't mind.

=== Free Agency and Self-Destruction (05:03) ===

[00:57:59]  Is that cool?
[00:58:00]  Sure.
[00:58:00]  Yeah.
[00:58:01]  I'll answer some questions.
[00:58:03]  Okay.
[00:58:06]  This is a really great question.
[00:58:07]  All questions are great here from our interns.
[00:58:10]  We have a membership every month, and all the interns are allowed to ask our guests a question.
[00:58:16]  So it's one of the many perks.
[00:58:18]  And the first one we got here is from Hara.
[00:58:22]  If people studied your case for the first time today, what would you want them to focus on the most?
[00:58:28]  I would think, you know, that my thinking and perception of the whole event.
[00:58:33]  That developed later, not my reaction to it initially.
[00:58:37]  And the skeptics and the naysayers are so foolish that they're getting far more attention than they deserve.
[00:58:48]  So I'd say focus on the reality of this event and what it means to how we should be living.
[00:58:59]  Beautifully said.
[00:59:00]  Okay.
[00:59:03]  Interesting question by Marcus G. here.
[00:59:20]  Part of your experience that hasn't been revealed?
[00:59:24]  Yes.
[00:59:26]  Go on.
[00:59:27]  I'm not revealing that.
[00:59:29]  Are you being facetious or is that the truth?
[00:59:32]  Well, there's things I haven't talked about that I think aren't helpful.
[00:59:36]  Really?
[00:59:38]  Yeah.
[00:59:40]  You're not going to talk about them?
[00:59:41]  No.
[00:59:42]  All right.
[00:59:44]  Great question, Marcus G.
[00:59:48]  And we got one last one here.
[00:59:51]  And this one, I mean, you know, it could go a number of ways here by T.H. Perry.
[01:00:06]  What's the biggest misconception about your abduction?
[01:00:09]  Probably, you know, initially the misperception everybody had that this was a physical attack by invading monsters, so to speak.
[01:00:21]  And that was a misconception that it was actually some sort of exploratory activity that we happened upon.
[01:00:29]  And I got myself injured.
[01:00:33]  And I think.
[01:00:37]  Precipitated the necessity to correct that mistake, which was nearly fatal or perhaps fatal.
[01:00:45]  I think a lot of that misconception also is probably brewed, you know, in part by the movie.
[01:00:52]  Yeah, the movie got things wrong.
[01:00:55]  And I've been working on a remake and to tell it in a much more constructive way and add material that wasn't known at the time.
[01:01:07]  Would you say, up to the point where.
[01:01:10]  The character played by D.B. Sweeney, would you say up to that point where he wakes up, was that like an accurate portrayal?
[01:01:21]  Well, not accurate, but you know, you don't.
[01:01:23]  Hollywood accurate.
[01:01:24]  Hollywood is not into making documentaries.
[01:01:28]  They're into making dramas.
[01:01:30]  Simple things that they do to simplify the story.
[01:01:35]  They reduce the number of crew from seven to five.
[01:01:39]  Too many characters to keep track of.
[01:01:41]  And the fact that there was.
[01:01:44]  Compelling evidence from so many passing police lie detector tests was traded off against the goal of simplicity.
[01:01:56]  Right.
[01:01:56]  And so, in order to simplify the story, they just left things out.
[01:02:01]  Like, for instance, the refusal of law enforcement to go visit the site that night and saying, oh, We'll just go tomorrow.
[01:02:18]  But they did both.
[01:02:21]  And that complicates the stories, you know.
[01:02:25]  Okay, you know, not the progression of a story that they preferred, you know.
[01:02:33]  Okay, here's law enforcement.
[01:02:34]  Now we're checking this all out, all that stuff, you know.
[01:02:38]  So, a lot of the fictionalizations were simplifications.
[01:02:46]  But the part aboard the craft was.
[01:02:49]  Embellished in a monstrous torture sort of way that was just not good.
[01:02:58]  And that definitely will not be a part of the remake.
[01:03:01]  Yeah.

=== MUFON and Black Triangle Sightings (12:10) ===

[01:03:02]  I'm glad to hear it.
[01:03:03]  I think I speak for many people when I say that the actual story is way more compelling than whatever was portrayed by Hollywood.
[01:03:14]  I'm almost confused at that decision, but I understand.
[01:03:19]  During that time, it's 1993, I believe.
[01:03:22]  You know, people were looking for a different type of movie in Hollywood.
[01:03:27]  You know, people were buying scripts and they wanted horror.
[01:03:29]  They wanted gore.
[01:03:30]  They wanted something a little frightening or a lot frightening.
[01:03:34]  But I would love a remake.
[01:03:37]  Oh, my God.
[01:03:38]  Thinks deeper.
[01:03:39]  Yeah.
[01:03:39]  And includes some things that I think people are hungry for.
[01:03:45]  Maybe some things that you haven't talked about?
[01:03:47]  Yeah.
[01:03:49]  One last thing before we.
[01:03:51]  Part ways here, Travis.
[01:03:54]  During dinner, you were regaling us about a sighting you had.
[01:03:58]  Yeah.
[01:03:59]  I'd never heard about this sighting before.
[01:04:01]  And I was wondering if you could retell it here for my audience.
[01:04:06]  Well, it was an event following a talk by the newly elected head of Mufon.
[01:04:22]  And Given at a MUFON meeting that Tracy Torme also spoke at.
[01:04:31]  My son and I and my girlfriend were leaving there when we saw a light in the distance that very quickly, very quickly went from a tiny dot to something very big.
[01:04:48]  And it was three lights on the corners of a gigantic black triangle.
[01:04:57]  It was huge.
[01:04:58]  It was very low and slow.
[01:05:00]  I mean, this is something that you could probably hit with a rock, it was so low.
[01:05:06]  And it was a giant black triangle, huge, unbelievably large, with a round, shimmering glow coming from the point of each triangle.
[01:05:22]  Of the triangles.
[01:05:24]  When it stopped, it sort of tipped upward a little bit.
[01:05:29]  I don't know if that had anything to do with deceleration, but it stopped dead over the top of us, turned 90 degrees to the right.
[01:05:39]  So the point of the triangle was now pointed off to the west, and then it shot off in that direction.
[01:05:50]  This is something I probably wouldn't have.
[01:05:52]  Reported if it wasn't for the fact that there was a huge number of people who saw it too.
[01:06:02]  This is in a highly populated part of California, and all these independent reports were taken by one particular UFO reporting group, circles with numbers in them, but you know, 12 or 15 people who.
[01:06:26]  Didn't know each other, weren't connected, and were all reporting seeing the same thing that we saw.
[01:06:32]  This had, so it had three sort of like, were they colorful lights on the edges or?
[01:06:40]  Well, it was a kind of some of a strange color.
[01:06:44]  I wouldn't call it yellow or white, but it had a shimmer to it that was odd looking straight up into it.
[01:06:51]  I think some kind of energy source boiling out of there.
[01:06:55]  Say boiling.
[01:06:58]  So it was like, was it like a roiling, sort of rolling?
[01:07:01]  Yeah, on a very tiny scale, not big, but vibrational look to it.
[01:07:07]  Did you see a sphere in the lights?
[01:07:12]  Like, was there like a clear bulb there?
[01:07:14]  It didn't seem like, oh, here's a light so you don't run into it because it was embedded in the surface.
[01:07:20]  So it was sort of beneath the surface and you don't fully see it until it's directly over you.
[01:07:26]  So I think it had something to do with.
[01:07:29]  Keeping it aloft.
[01:07:29]  The propulsion or something.
[01:07:33]  Yeah.
[01:07:33]  And then in the middle, there was this, there was a different colored one.
[01:07:37]  No, not in my case.
[01:07:38]  No.
[01:07:39]  I've heard of many similar cases that had a light in the center of it.
[01:07:44]  Oh, this one had no light in the center?
[01:07:45]  No.
[01:07:45]  Oh.
[01:07:47]  And so it must be something that's only applied some of the time.
[01:07:51]  Right.
[01:07:52]  Yeah.
[01:07:52]  But what is this?
[01:07:56]  Is this something some earth based agency has?
[01:08:01]  I don't know where they'd hide such a monstrosity.
[01:08:04]  Maybe under the sea, but it was huge.
[01:08:09]  And if it is an Earth based agency, I think that would be the reason they stopped directly over the top of us.
[01:08:19]  They knew we would be at that MUFON meeting and knew where we were at the time.
[01:08:27]  You believe it stopped over you specifically?
[01:08:30]  I do because, you know, there's a highly populated area, and why, you know, it'd be a really huge coincidence to stop over the top of us and then shoot off.
[01:08:42]  Now, Could have been aliens on board piloting this thing, too.
[01:08:47]  Who knows?
[01:08:48]  Don't know.
[01:08:49]  It was definitely technology that's not known to be in the possession of humans.
[01:08:56]  And you were in the car at this point?
[01:08:58]  Yes.
[01:08:58]  Who was driving?
[01:09:00]  My son was driving.
[01:09:01]  My girlfriend was in the backseat looking straight up through the glass.
[01:09:04]  She got a real good look at it, had a very strange sort of semi gloss black.
[01:09:11]  Texture to it.
[01:09:14]  You described it like scales almost.
[01:09:18]  Yeah.
[01:09:19]  Like a tiling, like a staggered tile, like almost.
[01:09:22]  Yeah, something like that.
[01:09:23]  And that would be one way that fits the description.
[01:09:31]  But I never would have reported it, just the three of us, except for the fact that, you know, more than a dozen other people reported the same thing who don't know us and don't know each other.
[01:09:43]  No, that makes it.
[01:09:44]  That makes it definitely worthwhile.
[01:09:45]  But I think, I mean, something like that that's that massive, I mean, that must be just so jarring.
[01:09:51]  You know, you've had your fair share of dealing with things, but what did your son and your girlfriend think at the time?
[01:09:57]  Were they just absolutely shocked?
[01:09:59]  Did they want to get out and see this thing?
[01:10:02]  Yeah.
[01:10:04]  My son said, Dan, should we pull over and take a picture?
[01:10:12]  I said, no, no, keep going.
[01:10:16]  And I was so surprised to myself that I would respond that way.
[01:10:20]  I really wish that I had taken a picture.
[01:10:24]  Yeah, but on the flip side, you would also wish you never got out of that truck in 1975.
[01:10:29]  But you know, maybe the other 12 or 15 people who reported it independently, maybe at least a couple of them took pictures.
[01:10:39]  Yeah.
[01:10:39]  I mean, everybody's got a cell phone.
[01:10:42]  What year was this?
[01:10:44]  93, I believe.
[01:10:45]  Yeah.
[01:10:46]  Okay.
[01:10:47]  Maybe a little prior to cell phones, though.
[01:10:49]  The year that Jan Harzan took office as the head of Mufon.
[01:10:54]  Here's a depiction, a drawing from a similar reported sighting.
[01:11:02]  Well, it's a large triangle.
[01:11:05]  With what he described to be like a black diamond tile.
[01:11:10]  Well, that picture's not a great drawing.
[01:11:14]  You can tell that for me to say, oh, yeah, that was it.
[01:11:19]  It was definitely something very, very high tech and very faster than anything.
[01:11:27]  That we have that I know of.
[01:11:30]  Scary.
[01:11:31]  How could it move through the air that fast without, you know, creating a jet stream or something of that nature?
[01:11:39]  Frictionless.
[01:11:40]  Yeah.
[01:11:42]  Wow.
[01:11:44]  Well, thanks for sharing that with us.
[01:11:47]  Appreciate it.
[01:11:48]  Well, like I said, if it had been just the three of us, I wouldn't have ever reported it, but had another dozen or so independent witnesses.
[01:11:58]  And they, you know, Gave us their addresses and stuff, and I'd really like to track it down and see if any of them took a picture.
[01:12:08]  Yeah, let me definitely let me know if you need help with that.
[01:12:11]  Yeah, I'd be more than happy to help you.
[01:12:14]  Does that mean because you say you keep saying if it wasn't only the three of us, I would have never reported it?
[01:12:26]  Does I just realized that you have to have one heck of a lot of corroboration?
[01:12:32]  Or people think you're just, you know, making it up or trying to get a margin or something like that.
[01:12:37]  So, you know, it serves a positive purpose if you can remove some doubt and show people that verifiable things are happening.
[01:12:49]  But it makes me wonder are there any other incidences that you fail to report because of this philosophy?
[01:12:59]  Yeah, there's things that I don't talk about because I can't prove it.
[01:13:03]  And I don't know.
[01:13:05]  Trying to maintain my credibility, I guess.
[01:13:13]  I don't know.
[01:13:14]  It does no good to report something that people are automatically going to reject.
[01:13:19]  Well, how can I be certain this has happened?
[01:13:22]  Well, I've had an incident where nine people witnessed it my crew and two others, and all taking police polygraph tests multiple times.
[01:13:40]  Leaving all kinds of evidence behind.
[01:13:45]  And that still isn't enough to satisfy the skeptics and the people who are attacking.
[01:13:51]  Maybe even because it is so undeniable, provokes them.
[01:13:58]  Maybe.
[01:13:59]  But nevertheless, try to vouch for the reality of this phenomenon.
[01:14:07]  Yeah.
[01:14:07]  I mean, but skeptics aside, because the few voices can be very loud.
[01:14:13]  But put those people aside.
[01:14:17]  I'm sure there's a lot of people who, upon hearing these encounters that you've had, might be compelled to themselves come forward with some evidence.
[01:14:27]  Yeah.
[01:14:27]  Well, I would encourage them to if they're aware of the consequences, which can be good and bad.
[01:14:37]  And that's part of the.
[01:14:43]  What's going on here?
[01:14:44]  Part of, I believe, the intention of these visitors is to get that dialogue going.
[01:14:52]  We're not the it, we're not the only thing in the universe.
[01:14:57]  And don't get too freaked out about that, but just take that one little tiny tidbit.
[01:15:02]  It ain't just us and assimilate it, okay?
[01:15:08]  Okay.
[01:15:10]  Thank you, Travis.
[01:15:11]  I appreciate your time.
[01:15:13]  Thank you.