DEBRIEFED - Chris Ramsay - Transmedium UAPs, UFO National Archives and Debunking - w/ Chrissy Newton - DEBRIEFED ep. 16
Aired: 2024-12-06
Duration: 01:06:57


=== Rolling Dice for Access (05:50) ===

[00:00:02]  one to the You want to become an intern at Area 52.
[00:00:11]  I get it.
[00:00:13]  Access to future investigations.
[00:00:16]  All right, so this is my last day in search of the Eddie.
[00:00:19]  Uncut interviews.
[00:00:21]  What about the Vatican?
[00:00:22]  Yeah, they've investigated me.
[00:00:24]  They've investigated you?
[00:00:26]  Weekly video updates.
[00:00:28]  So I appreciate you guys getting in on the ground floor with me here.
[00:00:32]  Sounds pretty good.
[00:00:34]  But that's not why you're here, is it?
[00:00:38]  You're not here for top secret access to the Discord.
[00:00:41]  Or the book clubs, or movie nights, or QA's.
[00:00:46]  No.
[00:00:48]  I didn't think so.
[00:00:54]  I don't even think you're here for The SCIF, or for the early access, or the extra episodes, or even to have your questions answered directly on the podcast.
[00:01:06]  I think you're here because you know there's more.
[00:01:11]  More than they've told us.
[00:01:14]  I need you to listen to my instructions, and more than we're allowed to see.
[00:01:20]  And I think you want to be a part of it.
[00:01:27]  So what happens to your five dollars?
[00:01:30]  Only one way to find out.
[00:01:46]  Before we begin, I would like to try a bit of an experiment.
[00:01:50]  Oh, great.
[00:01:51]  Yeah.
[00:01:53]  So, you know, this room was built, the inspiration for this room was more of like a skiff, but also a place where they used to like test people with ability.
[00:02:03]  You know, like in the Stargate program, they used to have these tests like Yuri Geller, they would fly him in and all sorts of other natural psychics and go swan.
[00:02:14]  Supernatural ability or psi ability.
[00:02:19]  I was wanting to do a magic element on me here.
[00:02:22]  Yes, but it's going to be disguised as science.
[00:02:25]  So I have a dice here.
[00:02:26]  Okay, here we go.
[00:02:27]  This is, I was wondering if you're going to do something.
[00:02:31]  And I'm going to ask you to roll the dice on the table, but hide the result from me.
[00:02:37]  Okay.
[00:02:38]  And don't give me any type of signal.
[00:02:41]  Okay, so go ahead, roll it as many times as you want, drop it on the table.
[00:02:44]  As many times as I want, and pick a number?
[00:02:46]  Just leave it on the table when you've committed and stare at that number.
[00:03:02]  What was the number?
[00:03:04]  It was six.
[00:03:06]  Was it?
[00:03:07]  Yeah.
[00:03:07]  I got four.
[00:03:08]  Fuck.
[00:03:08]  Okay, do this again.
[00:03:09]  Hold on.
[00:03:10]  This is me.
[00:03:11]  This is good.
[00:03:12]  This is an actual, we're doing actual psychic stuff.
[00:03:15]  Okay, so take the dice.
[00:03:16]  But my original number I wanted to keep was five.
[00:03:19]  Okay.
[00:03:19]  But then I didn't.
[00:03:20]  Okay.
[00:03:20]  So roll the dice, leave it on the table.
[00:03:22]  Yeah, I did.
[00:03:23]  Yeah.
[00:03:23]  Okay.
[00:03:23]  Okay.
[00:03:23]  And I'll show you though.
[00:03:25]  Okay.
[00:03:26]  Keep it there.
[00:03:26]  Yeah.
[00:03:28]  Think about this number.
[00:03:29]  Yeah.
[00:03:29]  And think about transmitting it to me somehow.
[00:03:42]  Okay, this time, what was the number?
[00:03:45]  It was four.
[00:03:45]  I got four.
[00:03:47]  Okay, wait, let's try this one more time.
[00:03:48]  So it's 50 50.
[00:03:50]  But I was like, did I pick up on what you were going to roll?
[00:03:55]  Yeah, were you predicting?
[00:03:56]  Ah, retro causality.
[00:03:58]  Let's try this again.
[00:04:00]  I want to make sure that we can replicate this.
[00:04:03]  So take the dice, roll it, drop it on the table, hide it from me, look at the number, and try to send me this number.
[00:04:30]  What number was it?
[00:04:31]  Get out of my mind.
[00:04:32]  What was it?
[00:04:33]  You drew a circle around it.
[00:04:34]  What was it?
[00:04:35]  Is it one?
[00:04:36]  The eye.
[00:04:37]  But that's funny because I was thinking of an eye.
[00:04:40]  Were you?
[00:04:41]  It's supposed to be like a snake eye when you get two.
[00:04:43]  That's right.
[00:04:44]  Get out of my mind.
[00:04:45]  We got the number one.
[00:04:46]  All right.
[00:04:46]  One last time and then we'll move on from this.
[00:04:49]  Can I do it with you and see if that works out?
[00:04:51]  We can try that after if you like.
[00:04:52]  Yeah, sure.
[00:04:52]  I'm not a magician or anything like that, but I like to try.
[00:04:55]  It's got to go both ways, doesn't it?
[00:04:57]  I mean, it should, yeah.
[00:04:58]  You got to tell me how you're doing this.
[00:05:00]  Very well, I thought.
[00:05:01]  All right.
[00:05:02]  Go ahead.
[00:05:10]  I'm getting a one again.
[00:05:11]  Fuck off.
[00:05:12]  Really?
[00:05:13]  Damn, man.
[00:05:14]  How are you doing this?
[00:05:18]  How are you doing this?
[00:05:18]  Yeah, you can try it if you want.
[00:05:20]  Let's see if you can pick it up.
[00:05:21]  I'm not.
[00:05:21]  This is not.
[00:05:22]  Let's see.
[00:05:34]  I'm really sending it to you.
[00:05:35]  I know.
[00:05:35]  I believe you.
[00:05:36]  You picking it up?
[00:05:43]  Five.
[00:05:43]  Fucking right.
[00:05:46]  Yo, dude.
[00:05:48]  You did.
[00:05:50]  It doesn't get better than that.

=== The Psychic Ability Test (05:17) ===

[00:05:52]  That's amazing.
[00:05:53]  There it is.
[00:05:53]  And these are.
[00:05:54]  Get out of my head.
[00:05:55]  That's what I'm saying.
[00:05:56]  This is crazy.
[00:05:59]  And that is a demonstration of psychic ability.
[00:06:03]  Thank you for partaking.
[00:06:04]  It was fun.
[00:06:04]  It was fun.
[00:06:05]  It was so much fun.
[00:06:05]  You did very well on that test.
[00:06:07]  You passed the test.
[00:06:07]  Thank you.
[00:06:08]  You did too.
[00:06:08]  That's crazy.
[00:06:09]  You will now be recruited into the next top secret program here at Area 52.
[00:06:15]  Yeah.
[00:06:16]  Oh, I thought you were actually going to like play music and stuff.
[00:06:20]  Oh, no, wrong one.
[00:06:24]  This one.
[00:06:25]  There we go.
[00:06:25]  That's better.
[00:06:26]  I'm just waiting for something to come out.
[00:06:29]  Just this one's the best.
[00:06:31]  All right.
[00:06:34]  Enough tomfoolery.
[00:06:37]  Welcome to The SCIF.
[00:06:40]  Thank you.
[00:06:41]  Yeah.
[00:06:41]  It's exciting.
[00:06:42]  My inaugural guest.
[00:06:43]  Yes.
[00:06:44]  That's even more exciting.
[00:06:45]  I feel very honored.
[00:06:47]  Thanks for joining me, Chrissy.
[00:06:48]  I appreciate it.
[00:06:49]  Thank you for having me.
[00:06:50]  A bit of an intro for those of you watching at home.
[00:06:55]  Chrissy Newton, Canadian UFO reporter, writer, journalist, podcaster, TV host.
[00:07:03]  I mean, you've done quite well for yourself in this community so far.
[00:07:08]  The co host of Alien Encounters Factor Fiction on Discovery, which is a really fun premise for a show, and we'll get into that.
[00:07:17]  Rebelliously Curious is the podcast under the Debrief podcast.
[00:07:23]  Podcast network, a very good podcast you guys should check out.
[00:07:26]  And then, I mean, there's just so many TV appearances and people you've interviewed over the years that we'll talk about that I'm really interested in hearing about.
[00:07:36]  But welcome.
[00:07:37]  Thank you for doing this.
[00:07:38]  I appreciate you.
[00:07:39]  Thank you.
[00:07:40]  Thank you for the intro.
[00:07:41]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:07:42]  So, Chrissy, tell us a bit about what you do within the UFO community to get us started.
[00:07:50]  Oh, gosh.
[00:07:51]  I first started in the UFO community as, like, obviously a seeker, like everybody else, right?
[00:07:57]  Since I was a little girl, I've loved UFOs because of my dad.
[00:08:00]  So, started off as a seeker, became an explorer.
[00:08:05]  And when I was 25, started to go and went on, like, crop circle, chasing circles kind of trips in London, England, because I wanted to.
[00:08:14]  Get to the close, what I thought may be the closest to something that was tangible.
[00:08:17]  I learned a lot from Gary King that's out there.
[00:08:21]  That's like, and it's okay.
[00:08:24]  Shut this guy off here.
[00:08:25]  That's like a number one circle chaser that deals with cop circles.
[00:08:29]  And who knows if they're real or not in that context.
[00:08:31]  And I learned a lot in that experience.
[00:08:34]  And if anything, I've learned that they're just beautiful pieces of artwork.
[00:08:36]  True.
[00:08:37]  Yeah.
[00:08:37]  That like everyone should go and see because they're like, they're stunning.
[00:08:41]  So it started off then, like, as a seeker and explorer.
[00:08:43]  Started in the PR side of things.
[00:08:46]  And so people would come to me when I was in my 20s and say, Can you do anything in public relations?
[00:08:52]  Like I was 25 when I started my company and knowing that I liked UFOs.
[00:08:56]  And they were like, Can you contribute in some way?
[00:08:58]  A man named Victor Vigiani, that's Canadian, came up to me and was just like, We need someone in the PR space to help to push this forward.
[00:09:06]  And I would say, Well, I can't.
[00:09:09]  I can't because I'll get blacklisted.
[00:09:11]  And this is before 2017.
[00:09:12]  Wow.
[00:09:13]  Because the stigma.
[00:09:13]  Yeah.
[00:09:14]  The stigma was so bad.
[00:09:15]  And I said, I can't.
[00:09:16]  I said, I won't have any clients.
[00:09:17]  Nobody's going to work with me.
[00:09:19]  He said, and media will laugh at me.
[00:09:21]  So I said, I can't, you know, but I can give you strategy.
[00:09:23]  I can help with that.
[00:09:25]  So I remember in 2017, I was in Mexico with a friend and I get this text message from Victor Vigiani and it just says, like, we did it.
[00:09:33]  Like, not meaning him and us, just meaning like just UFOs in general and the topic.
[00:09:38]  And he's like, we broke through to the mainstream.
[00:09:41]  He's like, it worked.
[00:09:42]  And I'm like, oh my God.
[00:09:43]  So I'm like in Mexico reading this stuff and I'm like, this is unbelievable.
[00:09:47]  So right there, I was like, I can help now.
[00:09:50]  Like the narrative has shifted.
[00:09:52]  So I really feel like there was not only a shift within you, but within the subject itself.
[00:09:58]  Well, not even there was a shift in me, but I think it was just like it was one of those aha moments, right?
[00:10:03]  It was more a shift in the culture that I could say, like, now it's the time I can step in.
[00:10:08]  Like, this has now become more acceptable in the mainstream and we're getting through.
[00:10:12]  You know, we're breaking through that ceiling.
[00:10:15]  So I was like, okay, I'm going to start helping in ways that I can.
[00:10:18]  I did work with Jacques Valet, which I feel really grateful for.
[00:10:23]  I did some work with him.
[00:10:25]  Well, I was working with the debrief as well, but with Trinity, I helped him get that into the New York Times and the Daily Mail, and Tucker picked it up.
[00:10:32]  So, and it pushed legislation a little bit, right?
[00:10:36]  And so, like, that was really cool.
[00:10:38]  Wow.
[00:10:38]  And also, like, working with the godfather of like the UFO historian and like topic and astronomer.
[00:10:44]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:10:44]  Oh, yeah.
[00:10:44]  You're like, you know, and then when I got the phone call the first time, he was like, hey, is this Chrissy?
[00:10:49]  And I'm like, oh, my God.
[00:10:51]  It's like in California, and I was on the phone, and I'm like, oh, my God.
[00:10:56]  This is so cool.
[00:10:57]  But that's so interesting to me because this space isn't normally that attractive to people who are working in a mainstream media setting.

=== Dad's Real Experience (03:42) ===

[00:11:10]  And so this definitely stems from further back, right?
[00:11:14]  You were definitely attracted to this subject prior to working in it.
[00:11:18]  Oh, yeah.
[00:11:19]  Oh, my gosh.
[00:11:19]  Yeah.
[00:11:19]  It's been around my whole life.
[00:11:22]  Yeah.
[00:11:22]  Like since I was about six years old.
[00:11:24]  Wow.
[00:11:24]  I've always thought that UFOs were real.
[00:11:26]  So I've never had a paradigm shift where I've been like, this isn't real.
[00:11:30]  It's always been real to me.
[00:11:31]  Right.
[00:11:32]  It was real to my dad.
[00:11:33]  My dad had an experience and it was real for him.
[00:11:35]  And so, and the group of people that were with him.
[00:11:38]  So, he showed me, I think I've mentioned this to you, and other people know if they've watched my work.
[00:11:43]  My dad showed me a photo when I was a little girl that he took of a UAP and it like changed my experience.
[00:11:49]  And I was forever like, for him, wondering what it is and watching him, but then also like looking at that and being like, what is this?
[00:11:56]  And like trying to understand it and just dissect it and being like so young.
[00:12:00]  And my dad would say, like, you just, you won't get it until you're older, Chrissy.
[00:12:03]  Yeah.
[00:12:03]  And so, forever, you know, my relationship with, You know, my mom doesn't really care about UFOs too much, but my dad and I did.
[00:12:09]  So it's something we connected over.
[00:12:11]  It was something that I think we both, as if you want to get astrological, we're both Aquarians.
[00:12:17]  That's what we're supposed to do.
[00:12:19]  So it wasn't a far stretch for us.
[00:12:24]  And yeah, and it's just something like a father and daughter.
[00:12:27]  And then my dad, Synchronicity, which is really great, he bought a place with my mom in Arizona.
[00:12:34]  And I looked up and I was like, I wonder where the Biggest UFO conferences.
[00:12:38]  And I was 25, and I said to my dad, Do you, and we're all at the dinner table.
[00:12:42]  And I was like, Do you want to go to a UFO conference?
[00:12:44]  He's like, Yeah.
[00:12:44]  I'm going to go look it up.
[00:12:46]  So I like go to look it up.
[00:12:47]  And I'm like, Come in.
[00:12:48]  And I'm like, Dad.
[00:12:50]  And my parents are at the table.
[00:12:51]  They're like, They're like, What?
[00:12:52]  And I'm like, Where in Arizona is like the house?
[00:12:55]  Like, and because we had it in Phoenix, I said, Where is this compared to like where the Alejandro shout out, the National UFO Congress, International UFO Congress?
[00:13:04]  And he's like, That's at half an hour from the house.
[00:13:07]  He's like, Book the tickets now.
[00:13:09]  So I was like, All right.
[00:13:09]  So like booking tickets.
[00:13:11]  And I'm like, That's amazing.
[00:13:12]  Yeah.
[00:13:12]  And dad's like, we're going.
[00:13:13]  Oh, he goes, no.
[00:13:13]  I go, Dad, when is it?
[00:13:15]  And he's like, he's like, when is it?
[00:13:17]  And I go, it's in February.
[00:13:18]  He's like, that's when we go.
[00:13:19]  Oh, that's so sick.
[00:13:21]  So we show up, and my dad looks at me and he's like, these are our people, Chrissy.
[00:13:25]  I just laugh.
[00:13:26]  That's so awesome.
[00:13:27]  Yeah.
[00:13:27]  And watching him be a seeker has been so amazing in my life to see him like talk to people, you know, connect and like just fall really in love with the subject more.
[00:13:39]  Yeah.
[00:13:39]  And now it's been interesting because the I get to experience it, and he's not always with me, unfortunately, because my mom is not the best right now.
[00:13:47]  So he is obviously taking care of her and like such an amazing partner and such an amazing man.
[00:13:53]  I'm very lucky to have that.
[00:13:54]  So I'm out there for both of us.
[00:13:56]  And then I'll, you know, he follows a lot of what you do, I guess.
[00:13:59]  He's, oh, yeah, yeah.
[00:13:59]  He listens to the podcast and listen to this.
[00:14:02]  What's his name?
[00:14:02]  Tony.
[00:14:03]  Shout out, Tony.
[00:14:04]  Yeah, Dad.
[00:14:05]  So, yeah, you know, it's been, I'm very fortunate and very lucky to have such a great dad.
[00:14:12]  But yeah, it's been a wild trip.
[00:14:15]  And now, like, coming home and visiting him and telling him all the stuff that's going on.
[00:14:20]  We watched the first episode of Alien Encounters Fact or Fiction.
[00:14:23]  I took a picture and we're all sitting back at my sister's, and I'm like, wow.
[00:14:28]  Wow, indeed.
[00:14:29]  Like, how did this happen?
[00:14:31]  Like, why am I here?
[00:14:33]  Like, out of, you know, and my dad, like, why are we experiencing this together?
[00:14:36]  Like, there's always reasons for everybody doing some type of topic, but I just feel very grateful and I just love it.
[00:14:42]  And I'm very happy if it keeps going on the rest of my life or even if it stopped at one moment.
[00:14:47]  I'm just like, I just love doing it.
[00:14:49]  I don't have to be in the front, I can always be behind.

=== Hundreds of Files and Reports (15:32) ===

[00:14:52]  Sure, but something tells me that you were meant to be in the front of it.
[00:14:56]  And, you know, you've got.
[00:14:58]  A long career ahead of you still.
[00:14:59]  Like, I mean, you're doing amazing things right now.
[00:15:01]  You're talking to, you know, some of the foremost experts in the field, you know, gathering information from them.
[00:15:11]  But not only that, you're a point of reference for a lot of people in this field as well.
[00:15:16]  You had recent appearances on News Nation where you talked about the hearings, you know, and they wanted your take on that.
[00:15:22]  So, like, I mean, you do provide like a valuable, valuable input and insight into this topic.
[00:15:28]  So, you know, that's.
[00:15:30]  That's a great place to be.
[00:15:31]  And especially, you know, as a fellow Canadian, very proud.
[00:15:34]  Oh, yeah.
[00:15:34]  Representing Canada.
[00:15:35]  That's for sure.
[00:15:36]  Heck yeah.
[00:15:36]  It's so cool.
[00:15:37]  And also, I like the fact that we live in Canada.
[00:15:39]  There's not so many of us here that are in the forefront.
[00:15:43]  So it's like a little safe space, I think.
[00:15:45]  Yeah.
[00:15:45]  And I mean, maybe this is a great segue, but there are numerous UFO sightings in Canada.
[00:15:52]  Oh, yeah, for sure.
[00:15:53]  Yeah.
[00:15:53]  Some of the most famous encounters, actually, one of the most famous encounters was Falcon Lake.
[00:15:58]  Yep.
[00:15:59]  You've researched this, I suspect, right?
[00:16:03]  Yeah.
[00:16:03]  So, 1967 in Manitoba.
[00:16:05]  So, Stephen Michelak was a man that was just like hiking during the day and he ends up in the mountains and he hears first, where I believe from what I remember, he sees this object in the distance.
[00:16:20]  But before I think he saw, he ends up hearing some type of like Swedish or European.
[00:16:27]  And a friend told me this too, actually, Micah Hank, shout out from the debrief.
[00:16:30]  We've talked about this case a fair amount, but he heard some kind of like Swedish.
[00:16:33]  And I didn't know this like point, this data point until Micah told me.
[00:16:37]  Yeah, right.
[00:16:38]  I didn't know about that either.
[00:16:39]  Exactly.
[00:16:39]  I was like, oh, but again, Micah Hanks is like a historian of UFOs.
[00:16:43]  He's like the same age as us, and he's an encyclopedia.
[00:16:47]  It's pretty unbelievable.
[00:16:48]  So when I have to fact check sometimes, I just call Micah.
[00:16:50]  Nice.
[00:16:51]  He's like, Chrissy, I don't know everything.
[00:16:52]  And I'm like, oh, I don't think you do.
[00:16:54]  It's like, you've got it tucked back there.
[00:16:56]  I just need to spark it sometimes.
[00:16:58]  But yeah, so he hears this like kind of Swedish or European dialect.
[00:17:02]  So he thinks that they're like Americans.
[00:17:04]  And so he goes, and then like, it's kind of like the typical, Like, close the door.
[00:17:09]  But he sees like these occupants.
[00:17:12]  And so he thinks that it's like some kind of American testing craft.
[00:17:17]  So he goes up to the craft, and I believe then he touches the craft, but then it instantly accelerates.
[00:17:25]  And so it kind of gives off some type of radiation on him.
[00:17:28]  And then he has radiation burns on his white shirt and then also on the glove that he was wearing that he has as well.
[00:17:34]  And I'm not sure why he was wearing the glove.
[00:17:36]  Maybe he was smart and put the glove on before he touched it.
[00:17:39]  He was out there fishing or something?
[00:17:41]  Something like that, yeah.
[00:17:42]  And I don't know when he ended up seeing it, but I believe it was at some point when he was hiking.
[00:17:46]  I don't think it wasn't by the water.
[00:17:48]  I believe it was in the mountains or adjacent to it.
[00:17:52]  And anyway, and so I think APRO then gets these files.
[00:17:57]  And so APRO has them, the National UFO Historical Records Center, David Marlar has them.
[00:18:02]  And so I was recently there and I saw it in glass and I'm like, holy shit.
[00:18:08]  Yeah, I'm like, this is unbelievable.
[00:18:11]  Like, you have a piece, you have his glove, you have his shirt.
[00:18:14]  The shirt?
[00:18:15]  Yeah, he has a piece of the shirt and then like the media files and whatever, like the records.
[00:18:20]  Of the account, and it's yeah, I'm like, and he said, and then he has a piece of the soil, a dirt sample, too.
[00:18:28]  Wow, right?
[00:18:28]  Which is really important because it's obviously touched down in that area.
[00:18:31]  So, who knows what that might still have remnants in if it ever did?
[00:18:34]  I mean, if it had radiation, it still does for sure, yeah, exactly.
[00:18:37]  Because it sticks around for a long time, yeah.
[00:18:39]  And so, it's so wild that he has this, and then he opened up the dirt sample when I was there, too.
[00:18:46]  And David Marlar said to me when I was there, he was like, Chrissy, I opened up the file and was like, Like, there's this is like so fresh, yeah, especially within a Canadian case like that for us.
[00:18:58]  It's history, that's a big part of our history, it's a huge part of history, yeah.
[00:19:01]  And so, that was like one of those moments to see that.
[00:19:04]  I was like, this is cool as a Canadian.
[00:19:06]  Wow, that was recently you did this, yeah.
[00:19:08]  This was in New Mexico, yep, in New Mexico and Albuquerque, yeah.
[00:19:10]  Well, Rio Rancho, exactly.
[00:19:12]  What was that experience like?
[00:19:13]  Because that I just saw from your stories and your posts, but you know, it seems like the mecca of UFO information now.
[00:19:22]  Like, that's and can anyone just go there and request to look at something?
[00:19:26]  Like, how does that work?
[00:19:27]  Yeah, I think it opens mainly in January.
[00:19:29]  Like they're kind of doing their last minute security stuff.
[00:19:32]  So don't try to break in because that thing's like a fortress, just so people know.
[00:19:35]  But you can put in a request.
[00:19:37]  And then I believe David Marlar takes like Pistorians, people that are just curious too.
[00:19:42]  And then they can go in and look at files.
[00:19:44]  But I don't know how, what, if they have to use gloves or anything like that.
[00:19:47]  I don't know what the protocol is.
[00:19:48]  He hasn't told me that.
[00:19:49]  And I think they're probably still figuring out what the best way is because there's everything.
[00:19:54]  Like there's so many, there's hundreds and hundreds of.
[00:19:57]  Thousands of files.
[00:19:59]  Wow.
[00:19:59]  Yeah.
[00:20:00]  And so I got a little emotional when I walked in because I was like, who said it to me?
[00:20:06]  Someone from UFO Twitter, Amy said to me, she was like, she does good morning UFOs.
[00:20:10]  And she was there and she lives in Albuquerque.
[00:20:13]  And she said to me, she's like, Chrissy, she's like, the truth's not out there.
[00:20:17]  It's in there.
[00:20:17]  And I looked at her and I was like, holy shit, Amy, that's true.
[00:20:20]  It is.
[00:20:20]  I used it in my article at the end because I was like, this is so true.
[00:20:26]  I was like, can I ask her, can I quote you in this?
[00:20:28]  Because it's such a great quote.
[00:20:29]  And it's true.
[00:20:30]  I said, there's so much history.
[00:20:31]  And like, David knows where a lot of it is too, but he hasn't listened to everything.
[00:20:36]  So there's all these like golden little nuggets that people that are just civilians can go in and find.
[00:20:41]  And there's a recording of J. Allen Hynek interviewing or talking about Travis Walton's experience.
[00:20:49]  Yeah.
[00:20:49]  And just like his perspective on it.
[00:20:52]  And I pulled it out and I was like, I got to listen to this.
[00:20:55]  I know.
[00:20:55]  I was like, there's so much, like, you know, as someone who loves telling stories and content, I was like, this is for your, this is forever.
[00:21:03]  Like you could tell these stories for the rest of humanity.
[00:21:05]  Yeah.
[00:21:06]  So, you know, if any like producers watching, they're probably all going to run to the archives.
[00:21:10]  Yeah, maybe.
[00:21:10]  Yeah, maybe don't do that, producers.
[00:21:13]  Leave it up to us.
[00:21:14]  Leave it.
[00:21:15]  Yeah, please.
[00:21:15]  Yeah.
[00:21:16]  Because like, let us, please, let us tell stories.
[00:21:18]  But it's.
[00:21:18]  Yeah, don't butcher these stories, ladies.
[00:21:21]  No, exactly.
[00:21:22]  Like, keep them intact.
[00:21:23]  So there's so much of that.
[00:21:24]  There's just so many files.
[00:21:25]  There's also like an intake section.
[00:21:27]  So there's so many different.
[00:21:29]  Or you can just go and like listen to the documents or like read them.
[00:21:33]  It takes for them to like cut, like take in new doc news out.
[00:21:35]  Okay, that you submit.
[00:21:36]  Yeah.
[00:21:37]  Is a lot of this stuff.
[00:21:39]  From like Mufon, I'm guessing, because you know, yeah, they had a lot of, I mean, they've been just like this investigative body in the UFO space.
[00:21:47]  I think much, and I don't, I don't want, maybe I'll go out on a limb here, but it seems to me that they were much more of an investigative entity before, or is that like still going on with Mufon?
[00:21:59]  But I feel like it was maybe it's just because, you know, when everything was fresh in the early days of UFO, like we hear about them a lot more, but what's your take on them now?
[00:22:10]  Well, I think Mufon's still doing its chapters.
[00:22:13]  Yeah, they're still doing it.
[00:22:13]  It has multiple chapters.
[00:22:13]  I talked to the New Mexico Mufon director.
[00:22:19]  I chat with him on Instagram because he obviously has an interesting job out there.
[00:22:23]  And so I think Mufon's still doing its chapters.
[00:22:26]  There are people that are still taking in and they're doing a great job.
[00:22:30]  Mufon had a little bit of controversy, obviously, throughout the years with certain directors and certain inappropriate activities.
[00:22:36]  So I think that kind of tainted things.
[00:22:38]  We look at.
[00:22:39]  My gosh, I'm forgetting NIDS.
[00:22:41]  We're looking at some of the stuff that happened with NIDS and Bigelow and the context of like giving those information.
[00:22:50]  Mufan was attached to it, I believe, to the American government.
[00:22:52]  So I think there were a couple moments where you were like, our trust maybe has been lost.
[00:22:58]  Yeah.
[00:22:58]  But they're still very much active investigating.
[00:23:01]  Yes.
[00:23:02]  Okay.
[00:23:02]  Yeah.
[00:23:03]  But I also think that all the chapters, like those are just directors, right?
[00:23:07]  Those are just sometimes bad actors in an organization.
[00:23:10]  You're going to get them.
[00:23:10]  But everyone that I've spoken to when it comes to running their own chapter has been really wonderful in different states.
[00:23:16]  So I still really appreciate MUFON and what the stuff they're doing.
[00:23:19]  Well, I mean, they've got individuals doing it because you have to really like sightings to be able to do that and go and report and talk to people and just have a conversation and do all of that investigation work.
[00:23:29]  Like you have to be a little spy.
[00:23:30]  You got to like it.
[00:23:31]  You gotta be a little spy, that's right.
[00:23:33]  Yeah, they're, you know, it's an interesting thing because they probably have, you know, the most amount of documentation on like, on UFO, on not even, I mean, close contact, even.
[00:23:45]  Like, that's, I can't even imagine all of the data that entities like MUFON, and now, you know, there's the new Paradigm Institute as well, and we have all these other conglomerates of like this UFO information, but how much information is out there, including in this archive, is staggering.
[00:24:05]  Oh, yeah.
[00:24:05]  Like it's not hundreds.
[00:24:08]  It's not that.
[00:24:09]  It's tens of thousands of cases.
[00:24:11]  Or millions.
[00:24:12]  Or millions, perhaps.
[00:24:13]  Of like little pieces of paper.
[00:24:15]  Yeah.
[00:24:16]  And those are only the people willing to speak about it.
[00:24:18]  Right.
[00:24:18]  And that's, you know, I think that's just for me one of the most impressive things because I'm reading books now.
[00:24:24]  I'm reading one written by the Lorenzans, which is like this old book in the 60s that was about, you know, close encounters.
[00:24:32]  And I'm reading Passport to Magonia as well for the first time, which is, you know, An incredible encyclopedia of sightings and interactions.
[00:24:41]  And the amount, the sheer amount of these interactions is staggering.
[00:24:48]  It's like I'm reading things, I'm like, what?
[00:24:51]  This is nuts that this happened.
[00:24:54]  Like, if true, this person has no reason to lie.
[00:24:57]  And they're telling me about like these beings I've never heard of before in this close encounter.
[00:25:00]  So, yeah, did you get a sense when going to that archive that like you're going to uncover something that nobody knows about?
[00:25:08]  Oh, for sure.
[00:25:09]  I think every time you open up a filing cabinet, you're probably going to find something that somebody doesn't know.
[00:25:14]  Wow.
[00:25:15]  Because there are so many media clippings, there are so many stories, right?
[00:25:18]  And I think the point that we forget, at least on the journalism side, we have the New York Times, obviously, and Politico, and the Washington Post, and all these amazing, wonderful, legit outlets that can disseminate information.
[00:25:29]  And in 1947, you have Life magazine, who was the prominent of telling UFO stories and syndicated them.
[00:25:35]  But we forget about the little local journalist.
[00:25:38]  And that's who that storyteller is and who's the most important because if they don't cover it in their local paper, A, that's what helps get things syndicated.
[00:25:46]  And it still does.
[00:25:47]  Now, I think it's independent journalism online.
[00:25:50]  But that's who's important.
[00:25:52]  That's what helped syndicate so many UFO stories in the 1940s was independent local journalism.
[00:25:57]  Yeah.
[00:25:58]  And their little community paper being like, what is this?
[00:26:00]  Like, and curious and writing a story about it because they thought something was there.
[00:26:04]  So that, like, and there's so many of those clippings.
[00:26:08]  And like, we forget the importance of media.
[00:26:11]  You know, today we live in such a polarized world with media.
[00:26:15]  But back then it wasn't as polarized.
[00:26:17]  Like, that's, you know, we could debate who was controlling it or not.
[00:26:19]  Sure.
[00:26:20]  Let's just say, you know, you did have a lot of local independent journalists that were just trying to cover real beats, real stories.
[00:26:26]  And, you know, we still have those people out there.
[00:26:28]  I say at the debrief, we are those people, you know, because we're not owned by any larger company.
[00:26:33]  So we don't have an agenda.
[00:26:34]  We just try to find the truth and tell the truth, right?
[00:26:36]  And do our best.
[00:26:37]  And if we screw up, we'll tell people too.
[00:26:39]  Like it's just the way we just try to report, straight reporting.
[00:26:43]  And so I think we forget that those people are so important and we still have those people.
[00:26:47]  Yeah.
[00:26:47]  And they're the first account and we need to document all of the first accounts all the time.
[00:26:52]  Do you guys receive any?
[00:26:53]  Like, I mean, because, I mean, you're working with some people who know a lot about this subject, arguably, like, you know, who are the most prominent in this field about, you know, information.
[00:27:02]  Do you ever, do people ever come to you?
[00:27:05]  Do people ever come to you with, like, an exclusive?
[00:27:07]  For sure.
[00:27:08]  Yeah.
[00:27:08]  How do you treat that?
[00:27:10]  Is there, like, a process that you have to vet them?
[00:27:13]  Is there?
[00:27:13]  Yeah.
[00:27:13]  Well, if it's a big story, if it's a huge, huge story and it's going to go international, you know, we all have a degree of understanding what's going on.
[00:27:21]  We have a lot of people that are on our team that can vet really, really well, just as well as the Washington Post.
[00:27:26]  You know, I feel very proud to say that.
[00:27:28]  Like, you know, Ralph Blumenthal and Leslie Keene came to us for that story because they know that we could do our due diligence.
[00:27:35]  And we do.
[00:27:35]  We do it well for a small group.
[00:27:37]  We're pretty mighty.
[00:27:38]  Like, we're feisty.
[00:27:39]  And so, and we all stick together.
[00:27:41]  Trust me, we've had our own bickerman society, like a family does.
[00:27:44]  But it's been five years.
[00:27:46]  I think this week is like next week.
[00:27:48]  It's been, we'll go, yeah, yeah, thank you.
[00:27:49]  So, like, it's, you know, we are a little family in that way.
[00:27:53]  And we work together and we try to do our best.
[00:27:55]  And we're situated all over the world too.
[00:27:57]  We're not just all in.
[00:27:58]  One area.
[00:27:59]  So, yeah, they do.
[00:28:00]  And then there's the same thing.
[00:28:01]  People just come to you sometimes with a general news story.
[00:28:04]  Hopefully, in the next week or two, I'll come out with a great story about an interagency meeting that I was given some information about.
[00:28:11]  So, I'll write that and I have the meeting notes.
[00:28:14]  And it's just a good story.
[00:28:15]  Like, nobody else will have it.
[00:28:17]  I'll get to report it, which is really cool.
[00:28:20]  It's an exclusive, but it's not breaking news.
[00:28:24]  It's just an exclusive, too.
[00:28:25]  But it makes sense because we are part of that demo.
[00:28:29]  And it's based on edge science.
[00:28:30]  That's also part of our demo covering.
[00:28:32]  It's not just UFOs.
[00:28:33]  Edge science is attached to it.
[00:28:36]  So the more that we dive into the UAP, we also dive into edge science.
[00:28:40]  And there's so many other people within interagency that's coming that way and connecting to the UFO topic because they and taking it seriously as interagency meetings because they know it's important.
[00:28:51]  And that's exciting.
[00:28:53]  Like that's very, very, very exciting.
[00:28:56]  And I love to see it.
[00:28:57]  And I don't want to just report on UFOs.
[00:28:58]  I'm actually going to UFOs is just a little drop in my reporting.
[00:29:02]  It's going to be.
[00:29:02]  Who are all these other amazing people here doing stuff in edge science?
[00:29:06]  And then UFOs are at the table.
[00:29:08]  Yeah.
[00:29:08]  And that's cool.
[00:29:09]  Yeah, because a lot of that edge science stuff, you know, tends to correlate and there's a connection, a clear connection with the UAP phenomenon when we speak of, you know, whether it's, you know, manipulating gravity, whether it's consciousness, whether it's, you know, all these other sort of, you know, paranormal activities, but they seem to pop up a lot in the UFO realm.
[00:29:32]  So, you know, if you're going to look into one, you have to look into the other.
[00:29:36]  Yeah, they're hand in hand, right?
[00:29:38]  And as UFOs grow, we're going to learn more that subject.
[00:29:41]  Grows and we learn more about it, we're going to learn more about all those other areas.
[00:29:44]  And then, how does it work within government?
[00:29:46]  How does government become open to having these conversations?
[00:29:49]  Because as much as science can do everything that they're doing, you know, and all these wonderful academic institutions, policy needs to change.
[00:29:58]  And that really is the decision maker in many ways.
[00:30:00]  But science and tech and edge science can influence policy.
[00:30:04]  It just takes a long time to get there because it does become politicized.
[00:30:08]  Like, I will say this now, and I've said this to Kevin Wright, who works for the Paradigm Institute.
[00:30:12]  And a couple other people.
[00:30:14]  He's a PR friend and he's just a great human.
[00:30:16]  And, you know, he really understands.
[00:30:18]  He used to work from the Republican side before he kind of got into the UFO topic and consulting from a PR perspective.

=== Learning About Hybrids (15:05) ===

[00:30:24]  And we were at Seoul, you know, we had this conversation.
[00:30:28]  And I said to him, you know, watching the hearing is so great.
[00:30:32]  I was like, this is the best TV I've watched all year.
[00:30:36]  And it came from a government channel.
[00:30:38]  I was like, how is this possible?
[00:30:41]  You know, I was, I think I was getting my hair done while I was watching with my stylist.
[00:30:45]  And she was just like, The hell are you watching?
[00:30:47]  I was like, it's like Tasha, you got to hear this.
[00:30:50]  This is unbelievable.
[00:30:51]  And she likes it too.
[00:30:52]  She's like, this is wild.
[00:30:54]  I know.
[00:30:54]  I'm like, this is the world we live in.
[00:30:56]  Yeah.
[00:30:56]  Yeah.
[00:30:57]  Watching it on mute looks the same as everything else.
[00:31:00]  But turning that volume up, you're like, wait a second, what are they talking about?
[00:31:02]  Yeah.
[00:31:03]  And it was like, and I said to her, I'm like, took it and I'm like, they asked about hybrids.
[00:31:07]  And she's like, that blew my mind.
[00:31:10]  I know.
[00:31:10]  I know.
[00:31:11]  I was like, my biggest takeaway.
[00:31:12]  What?
[00:31:13]  I was like, and like, no, no, no.
[00:31:15]  You know, I'm like, well, you know, that also I sat back and was like, thank God.
[00:31:21]  Yeah, are we going to open this can of worms?
[00:31:23]  Oh, man.
[00:31:24]  I don't know if we're ready for that yet.
[00:31:25]  But we didn't know if we were ready for NHI either last year.
[00:31:30]  You know, that came out of the blue.
[00:31:31]  I think a lot of people were willing to discuss perhaps gravitational propulsion or, you know, perhaps just these craft behaving in a bizarre manner that are undetected on radar or turning invisible, maybe.
[00:31:45]  Yeah.
[00:31:45]  But we got NHI.
[00:31:47]  We got, you know, transdimensional beings.
[00:31:49]  We got biologics recovered at crashes.
[00:31:52]  Like, I mean, a lot came out last year.
[00:31:54]  Yeah.
[00:31:55]  And, you know, although, you know, maybe we'll talk about that a little bit, but what were your major takeaways from, you know, this year's hearing?
[00:32:03]  Because, like, once the cat's out of the bag last year, where do you go from there, right?
[00:32:08]  Other than direct hands on whistleblower.
[00:32:11]  Yeah.
[00:32:12]  Do you think that this year's hearing was more of a step laterally or a step back?
[00:32:17]  Or, like, what were your biggest takeaways from the hearing this year?
[00:32:20]  That's a great question.
[00:32:21]  I would say lateral, but progressive in many ways.
[00:32:26]  We might have gone into some maybe directions that I don't think are, you know, and this happens, right?
[00:32:32]  We have to prove it and we need evidence.
[00:32:34]  And one day we'll get proof, but we need some form of evidence and specific data to answer specific hypotheses that we have because that's more important, right?
[00:32:44]  That's what data does.
[00:32:45]  It helps point to a specific, if we're talking about a hypothesis, right?
[00:32:49]  Because that's what you need data for to then point to the evidence as well.
[00:32:53]  But I do think that we have, I think it was, it's progressive.
[00:32:58]  We're doing it.
[00:32:59]  That's great.
[00:33:00]  But what I didn't like to see, and this is the conversation I was having with Kevin, or what we didn't see, was that everybody at the table was Republican.
[00:33:07]  And there's nothing wrong with them.
[00:33:08]  You mean on the congressional side?
[00:33:09]  Yes.
[00:33:10]  And there was no Democrats.
[00:33:11]  It wasn't bipartisan.
[00:33:12]  No.
[00:33:13]  And this is where I went, this is where I went, okay, this sucks.
[00:33:18]  I was like, this is getting really political now.
[00:33:20]  And it's quietly political.
[00:33:22]  When you don't have people show up at the other side of the table to have the conversation, they've literally gone, this is a Republican topic.
[00:33:29]  Wow.
[00:33:30]  And that's where I went, man.
[00:33:31]  This sucks.
[00:33:32]  And it doesn't mean that either side, if it's first of all, I'm Canadian, so I don't have a say.
[00:33:36]  I tell my American friends, I have my opinions, but what I think does not matter.
[00:33:40]  I don't live in the country.
[00:33:41]  Sure.
[00:33:41]  Right.
[00:33:42]  And so that's just the truth.
[00:33:43]  And so, and I'm, you know, yeah, no, you're right.
[00:33:46]  Right.
[00:33:46]  When we watch, well, I can't speak for you, but I can speak for myself when I watch, you know, these hearings, and often I'll make a video on it.
[00:33:54]  And it's different with me because, you know, being a YouTuber and a content creator, I don't have to, I can make mistakes.
[00:34:00]  You know what I mean?
[00:34:01]  People aren't expecting me to, like, be, you know, this, this, this, You know, this truth saying, all knowing like entity, but like when you're, you know, working at Joe Rogan status, yeah, it'll be the news press.
[00:34:14]  Don't say that, but I'm still fallible.
[00:34:17]  But what I meant to say is like, you know, watching this, I'm making a video and I'm like, God, I love that question by Bobert or I love that question by, you know, Representative Luna or Nancy Mace.
[00:34:28]  And I'll just get comments be like, that person's evil.
[00:34:32]  And I'm like, well, because they asked about hybrids and they're like, no, because they, you know, passed this bill.
[00:34:37]  I'm like, I don't know any of that.
[00:34:38]  I don't, I didn't even know.
[00:34:39]  Necessarily, that these were Republicans.
[00:34:41]  Like, I'm looking at this from a complete neutral, you know, territory.
[00:34:46]  That's fair.
[00:34:46]  Yeah.
[00:34:46]  I'm like, let's talk about aliens and UFOs.
[00:34:48]  This is why I'm here.
[00:34:50]  I don't, you know, I don't, I'm not here to vote on, you know, which bathroom people are allowed to go into.
[00:34:55]  I just want to hear about the aliens.
[00:34:56]  That's all I care about.
[00:34:57]  Like, and I dip after that, you know?
[00:35:00]  Well, I think it's just, I think it's important because that is a big part of where this topic's going to go, right?
[00:35:08]  So it is, it kind of signals how things might shift, right?
[00:35:14]  That this has become one sided.
[00:35:16]  And so the other side doesn't want to talk about it.
[00:35:18]  And Chuck Schumer, for example, has obviously been very polarizing, contentious, yeah.
[00:35:24]  Right.
[00:35:24]  But also he was asking specific things, trying to push things into legislation too, and coming from a Democratic side.
[00:35:31]  And so I think it's important that we know it.
[00:35:33]  But you're right.
[00:35:34]  It's like, I don't know everybody.
[00:35:35]  I did the same thing.
[00:35:36]  I think I put someone who was on the panel and I put, wow, that was a great.
[00:35:40]  Question and then Tim and of Kim and later McMillan for my team, and he was like, Holy shit, Chrissy!
[00:35:45]  I did not expect you to say that coming from him.
[00:35:48]  And then sends me, you know, as a female, I'm like, Obviously, for female rights, uh, who isn't when you're a woman.
[00:35:53]  And he sent me something and he was just like, I can't believe I never thought that was not on my bingo card to come out of your mouth.
[00:36:00]  And I said, I did not know.
[00:36:01]  I said, but I said, what's funny when I wrote it, I was like, I'm probably Tim's probably gonna say something.
[00:36:06]  I was like, There's somebody's gonna say something like, but also, that is the beauty of it, like you said, yeah, because that's my ignorance, neutral territory, well, right.
[00:36:14]  And I, you Can't know everything, like none of us can, it's impossible.
[00:36:17]  So, you just have to be like, Oh, I didn't know that, yeah.
[00:36:20]  But my choice on what people do politically is not always important to me, you know.
[00:36:26]  For example, I obviously don't want someone to take away my rights, but I, when people have different opinions than I do that are like Republicans or Democrats, I just leave it out of the way and I don't talk about it with them because we talk about UFOs and the issue.
[00:36:40]  There's lots of people that I don't agree with their political stance, but I still talk with them all the time because I think it's so important, it doesn't really.
[00:36:47]  Matter in this context, I don't think all the time.
[00:36:50]  It just matters that we're connecting, we're sharing information, we're trying to find a source of truth and understanding, and there's a community behind that, and that's great.
[00:36:58]  And this is what we're doing, and we're exchanging something in real time.
[00:37:01]  And that's so important.
[00:37:02]  And to me, I don't always have to agree with you, you don't have to agree with me, but we can agree to not agree and have a great relationship still and be friends and like and search for this topic and come to answers.
[00:37:13]  And that's common ground.
[00:37:15]  Yeah.
[00:37:15]  And I think we do a good job.
[00:37:18]  I think people that try to research this topic.
[00:37:20]  Even though people fight, it's going to happen.
[00:37:22]  You know, there's drama in the UFO community all the time.
[00:37:25]  I think people do a good job at least trying to mitigate that.
[00:37:28]  Yep.
[00:37:28]  I think so.
[00:37:29]  I agree.
[00:37:30]  I'm always not UFO Twitter, but.
[00:37:31]  Sure.
[00:37:31]  Yeah.
[00:37:32]  Don't go there if you're looking for a good time.
[00:37:35]  I do want to talk about this TV show that you did.
[00:37:39]  Because I think, as a premise for a TV show, I just thought so brilliant.
[00:37:43]  Alien Encounters, Fact or Fiction.
[00:37:46]  You would basically speak to experiencers.
[00:37:49]  They would present you with data, present you with evidence, and you and another team member, your co host, you would look at the evidence, listen to their testimony, and then pretty much kind of decide whether or not you think that this actually took place or that it was something of an anomalous nature.
[00:38:13]  Can you talk to us a little bit about this show?
[00:38:15]  Because I think it's a really fascinating topic.
[00:38:17]  Thank you.
[00:38:18]  It's the first time this has kind of ever been done, at least with.
[00:38:20]  Discovery from this perspective, doing interviews like we're chatting one on one.
[00:38:25]  But myself and Mitch Horowitz, I come from it as a journalistic perspective.
[00:38:29]  He comes from it from the esoteric perspective.
[00:38:32]  And we then listen to people that have their first to fourth or fifth account, if you want to put that in close encounter.
[00:38:38]  And they give us either some form of data when it comes to a photo, a video, or testimony, or both, or mass settings, media clips, stuff like that.
[00:38:49]  And so I have a team of experts that I work with that have done.
[00:38:53]  Tons of research in the back end where we look and break it down, right?
[00:38:57]  We try to find those data points and we know, like, for example, if it's the ISS or, oh my God, the ISS or it's Starlink, we can find out where they were, you know, were and like where Starlink was, all that kind of stuff, right?
[00:39:07]  There's so much satellite data.
[00:39:09]  So we look at that.
[00:39:10]  We look at the five observables.
[00:39:12]  I do talk about it, but they didn't cut it into the show and I wish they did because it's so important.
[00:39:17]  Do you think it's a little too inside baseball for them?
[00:39:19]  It is.
[00:39:20]  And also, not every case could have five observables, right?
[00:39:23]  An abduction doesn't have five observables if a UFO wasn't present.
[00:39:27]  So, it doesn't always, in that case, when you're listening to testimony at this point, if you don't have anything else.
[00:39:33]  And so, my job is with the team to break down the analysis with them.
[00:39:37]  And then I unfortunately become like the Simon Cowell of UFOs.
[00:39:40]  I got to break the news.
[00:39:44]  Like, God, it's not who I am in real life.
[00:39:44]  God.
[00:39:45]  It's a tough job to tell somebody.
[00:39:48]  Yeah.
[00:39:48]  You're like, just give it to Chrissy.
[00:39:50]  You should break it to him easy.
[00:39:50]  It's like, put me in the position.
[00:39:53]  And I agreed to it, though.
[00:39:55]  So, God.
[00:39:55]  But Mitch then will talk about it from.
[00:39:58]  Uh, and like an occult perspective and what he thinks from that cultural lens, right?
[00:40:04]  So, you know, we are there's so many cases though that had really great data, and there was one off Catalina Island.
[00:40:10]  And again, I want to write about this because I love the story, and I wish they did more with it because it's so good and it had it's a trans medium UFO.
[00:40:19]  Can you talk to us about this?
[00:40:20]  Yeah, for sure.
[00:40:21]  It was a UFO that was off Catalina Island, which I said, and so he has a photo, a video of it where it's a triangle and you can see it.
[00:40:28]  Yeah.
[00:40:29]  And he's on a boat.
[00:40:30]  So he's himself, and then his partner is on the island.
[00:40:34]  And so they see this UFO.
[00:40:36]  So they cross triangulate it.
[00:40:37]  And then the Coast Guard sees it as well.
[00:40:39]  So you're getting three different points of view, which we all want and need.
[00:40:44]  Right.
[00:40:44]  So then at three different areas, saying, What the hell is over top of your boat?
[00:40:49]  And so he watched it, I believe, come from out of the water.
[00:40:52]  And then it was above him.
[00:40:53]  But when he got it on video, it was above him.
[00:40:56]  Yeah.
[00:40:57]  Is this daytime or nighttime?
[00:40:58]  Nighttime.
[00:40:58]  Wow.
[00:40:59]  Yeah.
[00:40:59]  And so when he's telling this, first of all, when I read the data before I go on, I'm like, cool.
[00:41:04]  Yeah.
[00:41:05]  Like, this is, you know, and then I look at like the rundown of like, okay, let's look at the back end, right?
[00:41:11]  Let's see if they were doing any type of explosions.
[00:41:13]  Were they doing any type of flare activity?
[00:41:15]  Because it's obviously the Coast Guards are there, right?
[00:41:16]  And there's tons of military activity, exercises or.
[00:41:20]  Right.
[00:41:20]  Off Catalina Island.
[00:41:21]  So we look, and only thing that day in those couple days were low barge explosions.
[00:41:26]  And so everything was like, In the ground or in the water, they weren't above, and so we knew that it couldn't be that.
[00:41:33]  It doesn't look like flares.
[00:41:35]  So, you get these three points, you find out where all the activity is, it's all in the water, it's low, and you go, Okay, like, and you're obviously like a really good, he's a really great, he's really great at telling his own story because he understands what he's seeing, he understands the water, he's a seaman, he knows, right?
[00:41:51]  He's there all the time, his along with his partner, they live on the water, so he's a great witness.
[00:41:57]  So, it's yeah, completely anomalous, like, he.
[00:42:00]  It's the same as if a pilot tells you that's not a balloon.
[00:42:04]  You know, you got to believe the pilot because he's the one who sees things in a plane, you know?
[00:42:08]  And he also lives there on the water.
[00:42:11]  So he knows the difference between military activity than he would knowing something's, you know, identifiable.
[00:42:18]  A trans medium event like that, I mean, that just, I don't even think you need to be any type of expert to realize that nothing does that.
[00:42:26]  Nothing, you know, other than, you know, maybe seaplanes, but, or, you know, those funky cars they had in the 50s that, like, Came out of the water and like these trans medium crafts, but nothing, uh, nothing of this nature.
[00:42:39]  Wow.
[00:42:40]  Do you have a do you have a video of that?
[00:42:41]  He does.
[00:42:42]  Yeah, it's on the show.
[00:42:43]  Yeah, you can see it.
[00:42:43]  Could okay.
[00:42:44]  I might have to clip that into yeah, I think I still might have it in my file.
[00:42:48]  Okay, I gotta look.
[00:42:49]  Amazing.
[00:42:49]  Were there any other sort of encounters like this that really surprised you that took?
[00:42:56]  Because I'd imagine I've worked with producers before and a TV network, and I understand a lot of the frustrations that come with that because a lot of times people want to do what they think is best for the show, but it might not necessarily be best for the topic or the niche, especially when you're so close to it and attached to it.
[00:43:18]  Having other people who aren't very familiar with the topic call the shots sometimes isn't.
[00:43:24]  You know, it can be a little bit of a battle.
[00:43:26]  But were there at any points, like things that were brought to you that you were just like, this is unheard of?
[00:43:35]  This is like really good stuff.
[00:43:37]  Like they did a good job bringing stuff in?
[00:43:39]  Yeah, it's a first series, right?
[00:43:41]  It's a first show.
[00:43:41]  So, you know, you're having a whole bunch of producers that are scouring the fields for UFO encounters or any type of phenomena, right?
[00:43:48]  Like they're looking for all different stories, but mainly UAP or if they think is extraterrestrial, too, right?
[00:43:56]  And so, yeah, there were a lot of great stories.
[00:43:59]  I think we interviewed about 30 people, 30 accounts in two weeks, which is a lot per day.
[00:44:06]  So you're doing back to back, which is a lot of fun.
[00:44:08]  Are these all in the area or are these people from everywhere?
[00:44:11]  They're from everywhere across North America.
[00:44:13]  Wow.
[00:44:13]  Yeah.
[00:44:14]  So they're flying them in and we're all meeting in Roswell.
[00:44:17]  So that's kind of cool.
[00:44:18]  Yeah.
[00:44:19]  And about seven of them I've kind of knew of or knew who they were online and stuff.
[00:44:25]  So it was great being like, hey, Doug, what's up?
[00:44:27]  Real life, let's talk.
[00:44:31]  And so that was really great.
[00:44:33]  And there was, and then there were some accounts where you're like analyzing through, and with the team, you're like, no, you don't want to say yes.
[00:44:39]  Like, and I, you know, people might be like, I'm not, I'm trying to debunk, I'm not a skeptic.
[00:44:44]  And I truly believe, and I will stand firm on this.
[00:44:47]  I'm like, I want to be able to debunk them.
[00:44:50]  We want to, because it makes that 1% even more exciting.
[00:44:53]  Because then we get better data.
[00:44:55]  We're like, okay, let's get rid of the stuff that we know.
[00:44:58]  And like, yeah, it doesn't mean their experience isn't really had some form of experience, but I can explain your experience.
[00:45:03]  But then also, I've got this like great little data set that's even smaller now that I can narrow in and really find out more info.
[00:45:13]  And so that's the best part about debunkers.
[00:45:15]  And that's why they're so important in this space rather than us just kind of cut them up and we're like, you don't believe.
[00:45:20]  It's like, no, we got to work together because they're actually really important.
[00:45:23]  We need those people.
[00:45:24]  We need them to be overly skeptical.
[00:45:26]  Maybe then sometimes we're not doing it ourselves because who knows?

=== Debunking to Get Better Data (04:07) ===

[00:45:29]  They want to, that's what they want to do.
[00:45:31]  Let them do it.
[00:45:32]  It's just how they come out and attack each other.
[00:45:34]  Not so cool.
[00:45:35]  But there was something interesting a producer said to me or an executive at Discovery, and it was in the car.
[00:45:42]  And she's like, Chrissy, she's like, it's not like we're telling them they saw a spaceship.
[00:45:46]  And I said to her, I want to tell them they saw a spaceship.
[00:45:50]  I said, because I go, you know, it's different.
[00:45:52]  And for them, executives don't always understand this, that there's something that goes on internally.
[00:45:58]  And you know this, and everyone else does.
[00:46:00]  This is such a human subject.
[00:46:01]  So you just saying to them, it's scarier to say it's unidentified.
[00:46:06]  So, I'd rather tell them they saw a spaceship so I can tell them what they saw.
[00:46:09]  Yeah.
[00:46:09]  Because it makes there's some kind of conclusion then.
[00:46:12]  Right.
[00:46:12]  Instead of me saying to them, I don't know what it is, that can be petrifying, exciting.
[00:46:19]  Like you can walk out there and it can change your entire life and it can be good or bad.
[00:46:24]  And how the person actually decides to process that information.
[00:46:28]  Right.
[00:46:28]  And depending where they are religiously, maybe, or like.
[00:46:31]  There's tons of things.
[00:46:32]  Experiences, trauma that goes on with it that also can create more PTSD.
[00:46:36]  They could live in that PTSD more because.
[00:46:39]  They're asking more questions now rather than feeling they have an answer.
[00:46:42]  So you kind of have to.
[00:46:44]  It was like, oh God, it's like, please, I want to hold you.
[00:46:47]  Like, let's just have a talk about this.
[00:46:50]  You don't leave here.
[00:46:51]  Maybe feeling not unsatisfied, but just it's created more issues for you or just more wonder.
[00:46:58]  There's no resolve.
[00:46:59]  No resolvement, right?
[00:47:00]  And so.
[00:47:00]  Do you think they came into this thinking there was going to be resolve?
[00:47:03]  A lot of these people?
[00:47:04]  Well, you don't know what you're getting in when somebody walks in, how they're going to feel, if they're excited or not.
[00:47:08]  So some people would be like, I want it to be true because what they believe in.
[00:47:12]  I see.
[00:47:12]  And the form of grief that they're going through, too, because it could be attached to a death.
[00:47:17]  And so that's something where you're like, I want it, I'm telling you that this was something that I can approve now, but they really want it to be something else because they thought they were talking to a loved one that was passed.
[00:47:28]  And so, right?
[00:47:29]  And so for there, you're living in so much grief.
[00:47:32]  And that's the part where that broke my heart because I'm like, I don't want to hurt you.
[00:47:37]  I want to give you hopefully a place where you can start to resolve that grief.
[00:47:42]  To some degree, but again, I'm not a therapist.
[00:47:44]  A lot of responsibility.
[00:47:46]  But I'm not a therapist.
[00:47:48]  And unfortunately, they make me a little more clinical on the show than I am in real life.
[00:47:51]  Sure, yeah.
[00:47:52]  So they need you to fill that role of like the data analyst.
[00:47:55]  Right.
[00:47:56]  As opposed to, because they're also, you'd just be two people who really care versus like, you know, playing.
[00:48:01]  But what's wrong with that?
[00:48:02]  We need Simon Cal.
[00:48:03]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:48:04]  And they're like, just get Chrissy to do it.
[00:48:05]  But so, you know, you see that side and you're like, man, like, because it's such a real topic and like the real people and like, and you watch them live through their grief.
[00:48:15]  Yeah.
[00:48:15]  And that is so hard to watch.
[00:48:17]  And that's so hard to talk to someone with.
[00:48:20]  So, you know, I should be taking a class in counseling just on the side now, doing this to honestly to for real.
[00:48:27]  Yeah.
[00:48:27]  You know, and I'm very thankful because I have a lot of great friends.
[00:48:29]  Marie Nicola is one of my best friends.
[00:48:31]  She's really great at holding space for other people.
[00:48:33]  So, you know, I learned a lot from her.
[00:48:34]  Marie Nicola.
[00:48:36]  Marie Nicola.
[00:48:37]  Yeah.
[00:48:37]  And so she holds a lot of great space for people.
[00:48:40]  And, you know, very lucky I have a lot of women in my life that know how to do that.
[00:48:43]  So, you know, you teach each other how to do it, right?
[00:48:46]  And so it gives me the ability to go in and, Hold space with others too, right?
[00:48:50]  So you can listen to them for long periods of time and get stuck in each other's tractor beams.
[00:48:55]  Yeah, that can be.
[00:48:56]  I mean, I'd imagine that that's also, you know, there's a line there where it becomes a lot, I'm sure.
[00:49:02]  You know, I've spoken to, I have a friend who worked for Mufon for a very long time and, you know, it took a toll on him dealing with experiencers.
[00:49:11]  He had to, you know, especially abductees, you know, speaking to these people, it was a lot of trauma, a lot of PTSD.
[00:49:19]  And, you know, there is that sort of hitchhiker effect as well.
[00:49:22]  And there's all these other.
[00:49:23]  Things that come along with it.
[00:49:25]  But it can be, it can definitely take its toll.
[00:49:27]  Did you feel yourself, you know, being a little bit like beaten up after this experience or, or, or did you take away, you know, more of like a positive feedback from it?

=== The Trauma of Experiencers (04:55) ===

[00:49:37]  Not beaten up by listening to the stories.
[00:49:39]  I think it was just the, I want to do my best to say if it is or it isn't and not try to be swayed and to be like, well, I should just say it is because that's what people want to hear.
[00:49:52]  Right.
[00:49:53]  So sticking to my values and my Convictions.
[00:49:55]  You were the right person for the job.
[00:49:57]  Well, trying to, right?
[00:49:59]  Because, like, you know, and again, like, we for sure could, there are more data that could come out and we can make mistakes too.
[00:50:04]  True.
[00:50:04]  Because they are opinions.
[00:50:06]  Like, I am trying to go off data.
[00:50:07]  So I try to stick to the data and then I listen to the testimony.
[00:50:10]  And testimony can always change your opinion too, depending on your data points, right?
[00:50:14]  Testimony is so important.
[00:50:16]  And there was, for example, one account where I saw everything and I saw the video, but I was like, I want to hear the testimony.
[00:50:22]  I said, and that's really what changed my perspective of it because, yeah, because I had to ask all these other questions to fill in the blanks.
[00:50:29]  You know, from the video I was seeing.
[00:50:32]  So there's stuff like that.
[00:50:33]  There was another one, for example, it was, we thought we had the best UFO case.
[00:50:37]  So I see the photo open up and I'm like, wow, like that's amazing.
[00:50:41]  And it's like a UFO from Peru.
[00:50:42]  I'm like, even better.
[00:50:45]  So we're like, they're like, this must be the best photo ever taken.
[00:50:49]  I was like, oh my God.
[00:50:50]  So, I'm looking through the data points and I'm like reading through everything and I'm like, Watermark Billy Meyer.
[00:50:57]  You're like, No.
[00:50:58]  Exactly.
[00:50:59]  I've seen that somewhere.
[00:51:02]  And so I'm looking through, like, yeah, the data points.
[00:51:06]  And so the story that I had to ask her to make sure it was for sure what we thought it was.
[00:51:12]  Because, first of all, if anyone's watched the show, they would know this account.
[00:51:16]  But we thought, okay, we know what it is.
[00:51:19]  We think we've debunked it, but we need to ask her.
[00:51:21]  So I go in there and I'm like, So, what were you traveling?
[00:51:25]  Like on and in, and she was like, I go, you know, and she's like, Well, I was on a train, and I'm like, This is exactly what it is.
[00:51:32]  So I start asking her questions because she doesn't know what I know, which is also kind of not fair, too.
[00:51:38]  Yeah, this is where your little spy tactics come in.
[00:51:40]  But I did have to ask her proper questions to get the rest of the story out because we didn't have that account down, right?
[00:51:46]  So we just took from what the knowledge we knew.
[00:51:48]  Shout out to Ben Hansen, amazing, he was one of the experts in the back end.
[00:51:52]  Like, I love Ben, he just.
[00:51:55]  He instantly knew what it was, and I was like, Yeah, because he's been on that train.
[00:52:00]  So, there's one train.
[00:52:01]  Oh, that specific train.
[00:52:02]  There's one train that's in Peru.
[00:52:05]  And so, what happened was, this woman was we found out was on a train.
[00:52:09]  She took a photo through the window, and this is so great.
[00:52:13]  She took a photo through the window, just kind of like of the Peruvian mountains, right?
[00:52:18]  Like, just this is really beautiful.
[00:52:19]  And so, the UFO I can send you the picture, you can cut it in if you want.
[00:52:23]  UFO has like a little like smoke trail in the back, it looks like okay, like just like a cloud, it's just like perfectly situated there.
[00:52:30]  So she takes it and then she develops it later and, like, looks and goes, Oh my gosh, what is this?
[00:52:36]  Like, I just captured something.
[00:52:38]  So we find out she's on the train and then we're like, What could this possibly be?
[00:52:43]  We end up looking around in the train.
[00:52:46]  There's a light that is like a circular light.
[00:52:50]  And I put both pictures side by side and they both look the same.
[00:52:55]  And I go, What is this?
[00:52:56]  Does this look like what you saw?
[00:52:57]  And she said, Yes.
[00:52:59]  And I said, Okay.
[00:53:00]  I said, When you took a photo, The reflection from the light that's in the train was reflecting through the glass.
[00:53:09]  The glass took the UFO, but it looked like it took a picture of a UFO, but it's really just the light upside down.
[00:53:15]  And I go, But that's why you couldn't see it when you looked through the window.
[00:53:20]  And she was like, Oh, but she was kind of like, went in being like, I just want to know what it is.
[00:53:24]  Sure, yeah.
[00:53:25]  She didn't have a really interesting attitude to have.
[00:53:27]  Exactly.
[00:53:28]  And so, but I was like, What a great case.
[00:53:30]  But Ben, he's like right away.
[00:53:33]  I was like, you are such a good, such a good investigator.
[00:53:36]  I was like, you knew that so well, like instantly.
[00:53:39]  I said, and also, like, you knew it was a train.
[00:53:41]  Yeah.
[00:53:42]  Like, how did you know that?
[00:53:42]  But she never said she was on a train.
[00:53:45]  So that's the best.
[00:53:46]  Those are the, those like, those ones, you can't beat that.
[00:53:49]  I love that.
[00:53:50]  I love the idea that we're getting fooled not by AI, but we're still getting fooled by like double exposure and reflections.
[00:53:58]  And, you know, there was the famous, what was that case in Florida?
[00:54:04]  What was that case?
[00:54:06]  It was, I forget the name of it.
[00:54:08]  It was like the bay or something.
[00:54:10]  But there was a case where somebody had taken multiple photos of a craft, and then somebody tried to debunk it by doing double exposure with their Polaroid cameras where you take half the picture.
[00:54:24]  And, oh gosh, I wish I could remember the name.
[00:54:27]  I'm terrible.
[00:54:28]  But, anyways, it was proven to be, again, just like another camera trick.

=== Laughing at Mental Sports (07:58) ===

[00:54:33]  And this is something it's so funny because nowadays, We don't do camera tricks anymore.
[00:54:39]  We do AI tricks.
[00:54:40]  We do digital enhancement or we do CGI.
[00:54:43]  And back in the day, a camera trick was like you had to play with lighting and exposure.
[00:54:49]  And there's a lot of effort that went into a hoaxed photo.
[00:54:53]  It wasn't just.
[00:54:54]  Billy Meyers knows.
[00:54:55]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:54:56]  It wasn't just copy paste or a prompt like nowadays.
[00:55:00]  Do you think as we move forward, and I have my own thoughts on this, but do you think as we move forward that.
[00:55:09]  We're just going to be up against this unmanageable monster of fake photos and documents.
[00:55:17]  Probably, but we're again, if you work with debunkers, we'll be able to prove it.
[00:55:26]  So we'll be able to work together and people that are in the field, that are in the digital fields, that can say, you know, this is CG, this is that.
[00:55:35]  Those people are really important now than ever.
[00:55:38]  Right.
[00:55:38]  So, I think they'll come in, right?
[00:55:41]  There's a room for everyone to have a job.
[00:55:44]  Yeah.
[00:55:45]  Seriously, if you don't think you can have a job in like doing any research in UFOs, that is not true.
[00:55:51]  Your job will apply to this job.
[00:55:54]  Just we need something, everyone has a part here.
[00:55:58]  So, I meet so many people, they're like, I don't, they worked with topographical maps.
[00:56:03]  Right.
[00:56:03]  And he was like, this is what I do with my job, but I don't know if there's a way I can help.
[00:56:10]  And I said, oh my God.
[00:56:11]  I was like, Seriously, dude.
[00:56:13]  It's like there's so much you can do.
[00:56:16]  I said, There's like, there is so much.
[00:56:18]  I'm like, it just depends on any type of analysis, it's great.
[00:56:21]  It doesn't matter what it is.
[00:56:22]  But everybody has a job of contribution, of something they can help.
[00:56:26]  It's just how they end up maybe doing it, right?
[00:56:30]  Yeah.
[00:56:30]  So I think we will.
[00:56:31]  I think we'll, it will get bigger.
[00:56:32]  The pool of people will just get bigger and bigger.
[00:56:35]  I have a feeling.
[00:56:36]  The expertise will be a little more refined and fine tuned to what we're seeing now.
[00:56:39]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:56:40]  And as technology picks up, we see all these like wonderful people that are coming in and we'll be financing.
[00:56:45]  You know, edge science are related to UAP.
[00:56:47]  Right.
[00:56:47]  It just takes a long time to finance something like that because you're not getting a direct return.
[00:56:52]  And, like, how do you fund something like that?
[00:56:55]  So, they're coming up with funding models now.
[00:56:57]  And we're seeing them when they were talking about them at Seoul.
[00:56:59]  And that's really great to see because you're seeing this like financial side and like this big business side, if people like it or not, it's happening.
[00:57:06]  Right.
[00:57:07]  It's attracting a lot of tech people, a lot of big money in tech as well.
[00:57:10]  Yeah.
[00:57:10]  Obviously, there's, you know, if any of this turns out to be reproducible, Yeah.
[00:57:16]  I mean, there's instant trillionaires, you know.
[00:57:19]  So it is very interesting to a lot of people getting into this on a financial side.
[00:57:23]  Yeah.
[00:57:23]  And like people always say, well, you shouldn't be making money off UFOs.
[00:57:26]  And it's like, okay, well, if you're, you know, selling American footage to, you know, to other media outlets and you're making money off it when it's taxpayer money, that's totally different.
[00:57:38]  Like, that's not cool.
[00:57:39]  Right.
[00:57:39]  But when you're promoting something and trying to break a story, there's a difference because how the heck are we going to use that as an evidence piece or a data point to help prove?
[00:57:47]  But we're not, you know, you're not making amounts of money off it, right?
[00:57:51]  You're not trying to do deals in the back end.
[00:57:53]  But I think with tech, people are going to make money.
[00:57:56]  They have to make money.
[00:57:57]  It just is the way the world works, right?
[00:57:59]  At least in a capitalistic society.
[00:58:01]  You have to so that they can fund.
[00:58:04]  And some people don't care about UFOs, they care about their investment or they care about edge science.
[00:58:10]  They all have different degrees to come in, but we need all of those people like we do with tech.
[00:58:14]  We need them to come in and see this as very interesting.
[00:58:16]  And then we have the theologians or we have the philosophers and we have the people in psychology and the soft sciences that.
[00:58:22]  Can come in and say, like, well, look, let's look at this from our perspective, a humanities perspective, too.
[00:58:27]  Right.
[00:58:28]  Well, the investors and funders are just backing all the hard science.
[00:58:31]  So, what's happening now, it just takes a long time to get a return if you get anything.
[00:58:36]  It's exciting, though.
[00:58:36]  It is exciting.
[00:58:37]  And it's so new because when people go into conferences, I made a joke with Sol.
[00:58:41]  You know, it's such a great conference.
[00:58:43]  And there's so many academics and there's so many leaders there that you get to talk to.
[00:58:46]  And everybody's just kind of, you know, at the beginning of something so wonderful.
[00:58:50]  But I was like, there should be a joke on Saturday night.
[00:58:53]  You know, we all take out our UFO like tinfoil hats and put them on.
[00:58:56]  I got one right here.
[00:58:58]  It's, oh, do you?
[00:58:59]  Yeah.
[00:59:00]  And like take a group picture.
[00:59:01]  Good old collar.
[00:59:02]  Oh, I thought we got to make a tinfoil one too on the side.
[00:59:07]  But I was like, we all like bring out our tinfoil hats and like, you know, sit back and take a photo and just mock, mock, you know, own it.
[00:59:14]  Yeah.
[00:59:15]  I think we own that stereotype so that we just make fun of it.
[00:59:19]  That's been my biggest thing is like, I think a lot of people in the UFO space are obviously taking it very seriously because it is a, You know, if you want it to be, it can be a very serious topic.
[00:59:30]  Yeah.
[00:59:30]  But, you know, part of the way that I see it is, well, this is a little silly.
[00:59:36]  Like, we have to also understand that we're adults, you know, talking about something that we were raised on to be very silly.
[00:59:44]  This is a very silly topic to my younger self, right?
[00:59:47]  And so, and I'm okay with that.
[00:59:48]  I'm okay with this being a little silly and being like, yeah, let's laugh at this for a second.
[00:59:52]  This is wild that we're getting this footage of like an extraterrestrial.
[00:59:56]  Yeah, this is silly.
[00:59:58]  But in the greatest way.
[01:00:00]  It's not silly in a mocking, sort of denigrating type of way.
[01:00:06]  It's more like, hey, this is silly, but we're all a part of it and it's uplifting and it's fun and it can be great for story time.
[01:00:15]  It can be fantastical.
[01:00:16]  Yeah.
[01:00:16]  And as an entertainment value, I see it as very important.
[01:00:21]  You look back into World War II, the amount of money that was poured in from the government to fund entertainment just to keep the people at home appeased during the war, everything was fine.
[01:00:34]  So all these amazing movies came out, Casa Blank, all these like, They all came out during that sort of wartime.
[01:00:41]  Yeah.
[01:00:42]  Entertainment serves an incredible amount of value, especially in a distressed society.
[01:00:49]  And I think the closer we get to this UAP stuff, the scarier it's going to be for a lot of people.
[01:00:54]  And I think we do need some entertainment aspect that does cover this in a way that isn't always 100% serious.
[01:01:02]  Like we can make light of something and still be enlightened by it.
[01:01:07]  You know, we don't have to completely reject it, but we can also make fun and have fun.
[01:01:11]  Yeah.
[01:01:11]  And we should be able to play in the space.
[01:01:13]  Yeah.
[01:01:14]  I always say, seriously, I know I agree.
[01:01:16]  It should be approachable, right?
[01:01:19]  And how do we do that?
[01:01:20]  And everyone will have a point where they're like their point person or somebody that connects them to it, talks to them about it.
[01:01:26]  It could be their neighbor, it could be a podcaster, it could be anybody.
[01:01:30]  So, yeah, I do agree with you on that.
[01:01:32]  It's such a really solid point because we're going through a challenging time right now.
[01:01:36]  But I always laugh because I'm like, why UFOs?
[01:01:39]  I'm like, I could do so many things.
[01:01:40]  I was like, why didn't I get into politics?
[01:01:42]  I'm like, why didn't I get into this and that?
[01:01:44]  And I'm like, why?
[01:01:45]  And I kind of laugh to myself consistently where I go, it's UFOs.
[01:01:50]  What's going on?
[01:01:51]  I'm like, it's like, what's going on?
[01:01:54]  You're in a skiff right now talking about aliens.
[01:01:57]  It's like, it's just so.
[01:01:58]  And I laugh all the time because I'm like, why?
[01:02:01]  And I always ask my own self that, why?
[01:02:04]  Like, why, why, why?
[01:02:05]  Why do I like this so much?
[01:02:07]  And I know a lot about myself, or I hope I do, as I'm learning God every day, I think we are, that, you know, why it interests me.
[01:02:14]  I know that.
[01:02:15]  But sometimes I'm like, why?
[01:02:17]  And why do I feel like it?
[01:02:18]  Feels random.
[01:02:18]  Why do I have to wake up every day and, like, you know, think about like certain topics?
[01:02:24]  The first thing that pops in my head is just like, not all the time, but sometimes I'm like, why is this happening?
[01:02:29]  Or a connection to a story, you know?

=== Picking the Disclosure Lineup (04:25) ===

[01:02:31]  And I'm like, showering, like thinking about it.
[01:02:34]  And I'm like, but it's a mental sport.
[01:02:36]  And I've said that on my ex.
[01:02:38]  It's a mental sport to me.
[01:02:39]  It is not like I like sports.
[01:02:42]  I'm a basketball fan.
[01:02:43]  And I like, that's really about it.
[01:02:45]  And I like, Like all different types of, I guess, watching sports to a degree, but more of a basketball fan.
[01:02:53]  But this is my mental sport.
[01:02:54]  This is like where I'll be able to dive in, and it's got everything you need from philosophy to history to psychology to stats.
[01:03:02]  And you can commentate.
[01:03:04]  Starting lineup.
[01:03:05]  Yeah.
[01:03:05]  Well, yeah.
[01:03:05]  I was like, I kept saying at Seoul, I was like, you know what's amazing?
[01:03:09]  I was like, we have a fantasy football league team that's going into the government right now.
[01:03:13]  And I was like, if you had to pick your starting lineup for who your players would be for disclosure, let's look at that.
[01:03:20]  Whoa, that's it.
[01:03:20]  Hold on.
[01:03:20]  I love this.
[01:03:22]  Isn't it good?
[01:03:23]  Okay, wait.
[01:03:23]  Thank you.
[01:03:24]  People were like, Chrissy, I was like, it's true, though.
[01:03:26]  Pick your fantasy football league.
[01:03:27]  All right, we got to make this a thing.
[01:03:29]  But what's okay?
[01:03:30]  John Radcliffe, he's in the CIA, man.
[01:03:32]  Let's go.
[01:03:32]  It's crazy.
[01:03:33]  Your top five for disclosure right now.
[01:03:35]  Oh, gosh.
[01:03:36]  Well, John, he's in it right now.
[01:03:38]  I would say the lineup that we have is not bad at all.
[01:03:41]  I would put Lou in Congress at 1.2.
[01:03:44]  I would, I obviously would put Mellon in there, too, because why wouldn't he?
[01:03:50]  He makes sense to be in there.
[01:03:51]  But what position?
[01:03:53]  I don't know where I would put Mellon in the position.
[01:03:56]  Yeah, let's not worry about that.
[01:03:57]  Position, let's worry about like who's on the team.
[01:04:00]  You got five people, the starting lineup.
[01:04:03]  Okay, I haven't thought that far through.
[01:04:04]  I just know our starting lineup that's like, no, let's do your frustration as your starting lineup.
[01:04:10]  Okay, very interested.
[01:04:11]  This is a great question.
[01:04:12]  Yeah, and it's fun, it's a fun, super fun.
[01:04:13]  Yeah, but it's also like reality.
[01:04:15]  And you can go, you can go researchers too.
[01:04:18]  I can go, are they, can they be dead?
[01:04:20]  Dead or alive?
[01:04:21]  Okay, good.
[01:04:21]  Yeah.
[01:04:21]  Okay.
[01:04:22]  Um, oh man, valet, 100%.
[01:04:25]  Yeah.
[01:04:25]  People might be like, these are all known people, but yeah, valet for sure.
[01:04:28]  I would put in there.
[01:04:30]  I wonder if I would be a journalist.
[01:04:36]  Hal put off for sure.
[01:04:37]  Yeah, Hal put off for sure on that.
[01:04:39]  I wonder if I would put a journalist in there.
[01:04:42]  I wonder, maybe as a director of communications or like a secretary, you know, press secretary.
[01:04:48]  Who would you see?
[01:04:49]  Oh, man.
[01:04:50]  Schellenberger.
[01:04:51]  Would it be you?
[01:04:53]  No, I would love that.
[01:04:54]  Trust me.
[01:04:54]  Actually, I like to go Leslie Kane.
[01:04:57]  Leslie Kane.
[01:04:57]  Yeah, I'd like to see probably a woman in that too.
[01:05:00]  But a man, I'm like, I know.
[01:05:01]  Actually, you know what?
[01:05:03]  Bryce Sable would be really good.
[01:05:04]  Bryce is actually really good at talking directly.
[01:05:08]  I would put Bryce in.
[01:05:10]  Yeah.
[01:05:10]  I would.
[01:05:10]  Just spending time with him and seeing how he works and how he knows how to anchor the story and comes off it different than Ross.
[01:05:17]  They're like yin and yang in there.
[01:05:18]  Yeah.
[01:05:18]  Ross Wash would be another great pick there as well.
[01:05:21]  Yeah.
[01:05:22]  It would be.
[01:05:24]  But everyone would be great.
[01:05:26]  Yeah.
[01:05:26]  But you got to do the lineup.
[01:05:28]  Yeah.
[01:05:28]  And then Melon, too.
[01:05:29]  So Melon.
[01:05:31]  Yeah.
[01:05:31]  I would.
[01:05:32]  Yeah, Smellen or Lou.
[01:05:33]  Okay.
[01:05:33]  I think I would do either one.
[01:05:34]  For the same position.
[01:05:35]  Yeah.
[01:05:35]  Again, but then Jay Stratton is in that too, right?
[01:05:38]  He's coming out with a book, isn't he, as well?
[01:05:40]  Yeah, he is.
[01:05:41]  So I don't know.
[01:05:41]  There's so many of them.
[01:05:43]  But for sure, I think Valet should be overseeing everything.
[01:05:48]  Yeah.
[01:05:48]  Oh my God.
[01:05:49]  Heineck at the top.
[01:05:49]  I know.
[01:05:50]  At the helm.
[01:05:51]  I know.
[01:05:52]  There's too many people.
[01:05:53]  There are too many.
[01:05:54]  What would be your starting lineup?
[01:05:55]  Yeah, it's hard.
[01:05:56]  Yeah, very similar.
[01:05:57]  Very similar to yours.
[01:05:58]  I love the angle of a journalist.
[01:06:00]  I didn't think about that.
[01:06:02]  And for me, it'd be.
[01:06:03]  I mean, a toss up between Leslie and Ross, I think, for that position.
[01:06:08]  Press secretary makes sense for a job.
[01:06:10]  Yeah, it really does make sense.
[01:06:12]  I do love Hal, Hal Putoff.
[01:06:16]  I think that's a great choice.
[01:06:19]  Jacques Valet, because just like from the sort of philosophical, scientific, you know, sort of like different side of things, we need somebody who thinks a little outside the box.
[01:06:29]  Yeah.
[01:06:30]  And then we need like nuts and bolts guy, right?
[01:06:32]  So, you know, Whether Lou or Grush, maybe, or like, you know, one of these guys who's.
[01:06:39]  I would probably go with someone who has like a very good grasp on the mechanics and like the real nuts and bolts.
[01:06:50]  Like, and I know I think Grush has like an engineering background, right?
[01:06:53]  So that makes sense.
[01:06:54]  Maybe that.
[01:06:55]  maybe that and And then