DEBRIEFED - Chris Ramsay - The $20M CIA Psychic Spy Program w/@NelsonDellis - DEBRIEFED ep.1 - Project: Stargate
Aired: 2023-09-07
Duration: 01:10:57


=== Welcome to Debriefed (04:48) ===

[00:00:00]  There's just an overwhelming amount of evidence that says this is a real thing.
[00:00:05]  It was another kind of like crack in my reality.
[00:00:09]  I want to know if the government's still doing this.
[00:00:12]  If that's true, what does that mean about the universe?
[00:00:15]  You know, it is real.
[00:00:17]  Wake up.
[00:00:19]  All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the very first edition of Debriefed, a podcast.
[00:00:26]  We're going to dive into basically the, you want to call it an investigation, of remote viewing.
[00:00:34]  Which we just had.
[00:00:36]  We had a, what is it, over a year long journey at this point.
[00:00:41]  Took a little hiatus, but then we got back to it.
[00:00:44]  And we just, you guys have probably seen, you know, all the videos that we put up on this channel.
[00:00:52]  And hopefully you've seen Nelson's videos as well on his channel, you know, which looks at a different part of remote viewing.
[00:00:59]  Ladies and gentlemen, this is Nelson Dellis.
[00:01:01]  Hey, everyone.
[00:01:01]  Thanks for having me.
[00:01:03]  Let's just dive right into it, guys.
[00:01:06]  If you don't mind, uh, obviously subscribing, leaving a like, and maybe leaving a review on the audio platform, it really helps out.
[00:01:16]  Nelson Dellis, five time U.S. memory champion.
[00:01:20]  Let's start at the beginning.
[00:01:22]  You were hit up on Facebook, I believe.
[00:01:28]  Yeah, so as part of this memory world, I'm a part of a few Facebook groups, um, you know, where we just Post about championships and happenings in the memory world, as exciting as you may think that may be.
[00:01:41]  But, anyways, people sometimes come out there and post really out there stuff, and sometimes you ignore it, sometimes you read it.
[00:01:50]  And this particular post, it wasn't directed towards me specifically, it was just for the group.
[00:01:54]  And it was maybe a sentence or two saying something like, I'd have to look it up exactly, but it was basically, there's a job opportunity, part time, make a little cash doing something with your memory.
[00:02:07]  That's vague.
[00:02:08]  Not even talking about anything.
[00:02:11]  Did other people respond to that?
[00:02:14]  From what I saw, I didn't see any other responses.
[00:02:17]  No, nobody had even commented on it.
[00:02:19]  Maybe a couple likes.
[00:02:20]  So you don't know if anyone else was introduced to this or you would have known by now, speaking to Brett?
[00:02:25]  Oh, I know.
[00:02:25]  I know who else was involved.
[00:02:27]  And there were others.
[00:02:28]  Yeah.
[00:02:28]  Yeah.
[00:02:29]  Well, oh, did you hear about them?
[00:02:30]  Oh, yeah.
[00:02:31]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:02:31]  And how did they do?
[00:02:33]  So I'm very, I didn't hear about this.
[00:02:36]  Yeah.
[00:02:37]  So I don't know how much I want to give because I feel bad.
[00:02:40]  Uh, Putting him into that world.
[00:02:43]  But there is another well known memory athlete who was there were two of us, me and this other person.
[00:02:48]  I think maybe a couple other people went into the interview, if you can call it that.
[00:02:54]  Applied, yeah.
[00:02:54]  Applied or whatever, or threw their hat in the ring.
[00:02:56]  But I think they had already said, I probably was the first because I always answer to stuff like that.
[00:03:01]  I'm just curious.
[00:03:02]  And that's what I did.
[00:03:03]  I sent an email saying, or a DM and was interested.
[00:03:06]  And they called me pretty quickly.
[00:03:08]  And I think this other memory athlete was the second.
[00:03:11]  And then They were good with two of us for this project.
[00:03:15]  But this other memory athlete is a top memory athlete.
[00:03:18]  I won't tell it who it is.
[00:03:20]  But I will say that he is of a part of the world where they think a very certain way.
[00:03:29]  And it's hard to break that.
[00:03:31]  The skeptic.
[00:03:32]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:03:32]  The most skeptic, if you can think of any country in the world where they might be that way and like nothing will change their.
[00:03:39]  So he's Middle Eastern.
[00:03:41]  No, well, I don't.
[00:03:42]  Maybe I'm making a generalization.
[00:03:44]  There's a lot of skeptics in the world.
[00:03:46]  But it's funny.
[00:03:47]  I was surprised that he had done this.
[00:03:50]  But You know, after and we would check in from time to time going through this program and uh be like, What do you think?
[00:03:56]  Is this real?
[00:03:57]  Like, have you had any hits?
[00:03:58]  And even Brett would say, He's doing really well, wow, probably even better than me.
[00:04:04]  But the memory athlete would just be like, This is such bullshit.
[00:04:09]  Brett's tricking me, right?
[00:04:10]  You know, our trainer, he's like switching out photos or I'm making it up in my head.
[00:04:16]  And I talked to him maybe like half a year ago, and he's he doesn't do it anymore, but he still thinks back on it.
[00:04:21]  It was just like it was a horse of crock shit.
[00:04:23]  Yeah.
[00:04:24]  Can't blame them for feeling that way.
[00:04:26]  You know, it's how I would think more than half the people, you know, feel about this subject because they're uneducated.
[00:04:34]  Yeah.
[00:04:34]  And, you know, not to jump ahead, but going into the places and speaking to the people that we've spoken to, you know, we've, I feel it's just healthier that we come to our own conclusions through this rather than just dismiss it all entirely.
[00:04:48]  And I feel like you're the same.

=== Betting on Horse Racing (12:39) ===

[00:04:49]  So after this, you're doing this memory stuff for them.
[00:04:52]  They train you every day for an hour for a month, five days a week, something like that.
[00:04:57]  Yeah.
[00:04:57]  It was pretty.
[00:04:58]  Rigorous.
[00:04:58]  I mean, the actual session was an hour a day, five times a week, Monday through Friday, for about a month, a little more.
[00:05:05]  And then we have to do these sessions.
[00:05:07]  So there's homework, essentially.
[00:05:10]  And that was, that took some time.
[00:05:12]  So it was, it was pretty in depth.
[00:05:14]  And then once that training session was over, we kind of graduated to doing the actual tasks for our employer.
[00:05:22]  Right.
[00:05:23]  Okay.
[00:05:23]  And then based on those, so to get a little technical, What you ended up doing with these people was something known as ARV, which is different than remote viewing and different than CRV, coordinate remote viewing.
[00:05:38]  ARV is associative remote viewing.
[00:05:41]  And if I understand correctly, it's a binary sort of system to where you're essentially describing something and then you're presented with two pictures, and whatever one that that is closer to will be the result.
[00:06:00]  And on the back of that paper could be some information that you're not privy to and that maybe even the person giving you the photos isn't privy to, but that goes into a whole separate thing.
[00:06:09]  Yeah.
[00:06:10]  Yeah.
[00:06:10]  So basically, you're doing a remote viewing session, a little more stripped down of a remote viewing session only because.
[00:06:16]  You're going to take your results and have it judged, ideally by somebody else, but in some cases you can do it yourself if you have a good protocol.
[00:06:25]  But you judge what your results match better to photo A or photo B.
[00:06:30]  And on the side of the person who provides those photos for you, they try to really choose photos that are really different just so that the judging is easier and there's really no way that you could be confusing one or the other when it comes to what you saw.
[00:06:47]  And then, you know, that.
[00:06:50]  That binary choice, those two photos on the side of the tasker, they basically associate one photo with the other, with some situation.
[00:07:00]  And in our case, we were doing it with trading and stocks, right?
[00:07:04]  So photo A might be a stock going up versus photo B going down.
[00:07:09]  We do the remote viewing session.
[00:07:10]  I say photo A, right?
[00:07:12]  And then they would make a bet or trade based on that.
[00:07:16]  And we were a team.
[00:07:17]  So it was actually not just what Nelson got, it would have been what me and.
[00:07:22]  Number two was the other memory athlete, and then they actually had another group of six.
[00:07:27]  And I'm sure if that information was conflicting, they might just not use it.
[00:07:32]  And then if it was supportive, if all the information that you were getting from these three sessions were supporting, then that would be like a conclusive way to bet.
[00:07:41]  Yeah.
[00:07:41]  So sometimes, you know, based on what you get as a group, you pass, right?
[00:07:45]  You don't do anything.
[00:07:47]  Even sometimes my judging or my session would be worthy of a pass because it wouldn't be very convincing whether it was one or the other.
[00:07:54]  Right.
[00:07:55]  And that's okay.
[00:07:55]  And that's why having a team is so much more effective than just one person.
[00:07:59]  Right.
[00:07:59]  You know, let's say my stats say that I hit it right 55% of the time.
[00:08:04]  You know, as a group, you may have somebody that's closer to 60%, somebody that's like 53%.
[00:08:11]  But as a group, you can get a better hit rate.
[00:08:14]  And I think that goes for a lot of what they were doing, you know, at SRI back in the day as well.
[00:08:22]  They had teams of remote viewing and would more often than not.
[00:08:27]  You know, have multiple people come to the same conclusions, which really strengthened their resolve in whatever mission they were on.
[00:08:35]  Yeah.
[00:08:36]  So, this is something that you've done.
[00:08:39]  You've since then, since learning this, now take us through.
[00:08:44]  I don't want to get into the specifics of this because there is NDA involved and there is everything else, but this project ends.
[00:08:51]  You're done with this.
[00:08:52]  And you move on.
[00:08:53]  You then started using this for your own benefit to see if you can win at horse racing and baseball games and sporting events and that type of thing.
[00:09:02]  And how did that do for you?
[00:09:04]  Yeah, it's still ongoing.
[00:09:05]  Let me back up a bit because I feel like people would love to know whether I actually made money through this.
[00:09:11]  Of course.
[00:09:11]  And The first project, yes, they paid me for my time.
[00:09:15]  It was all right.
[00:09:17]  It was good for what it was.
[00:09:19]  And it had a cool story attached to it.
[00:09:21]  In terms of when I started actually doing stuff for their portfolio, I was promised a back end portion of the returns, but the project kind of fizzled out for some reason that I can't talk about, unrelated to the results or anything that had to do with the people running it at the high levels.
[00:09:38]  So, anyways, I didn't see anything from that.
[00:09:42]  Okay.
[00:09:42]  So I let that sit for a while.
[00:09:44]  I still wasn't 100% convinced.
[00:09:46]  But I was kind of on this quest for myself to like, is this real or not?
[00:09:50]  Figure that out.
[00:09:52]  And I started doing stuff with casual day to day things that I go to.
[00:09:58]  We have a horse racing track near our house.
[00:10:01]  So try it with some horse racing.
[00:10:02]  I like to watch the NBA Finals and March Madness.
[00:10:05]  So try it on betting on some games and stuff like that.
[00:10:08]  And I try to keep track of the results.
[00:10:10]  Were you alone in this?
[00:10:13]  Yeah.
[00:10:13]  Yeah.
[00:10:13]  Just so self funded, not crazy money, just putting a little bit.
[00:10:17]  I don't really like to gamble for sports, but and I don't know anything about it.
[00:10:21]  Yeah, I'm not one of these guys that knows the odds of this and that.
[00:10:23]  I don't understand it really.
[00:10:25]  Um, so I had to learn a bit of that, but I started with the horse racing one day.
[00:10:29]  I went to the track in Saratoga and they have about 10 races in a day.
[00:10:35]  Um, and each race, let's say, has about 10 horses, give or take average.
[00:10:40]  Sometimes it's more, sometimes it's less.
[00:10:41]  Some horses get scratched, whatever.
[00:10:44]  Um, and I was basically going to see can I predict the winner of the race, which isn't really a good way to bet on horse racing, you got to do like You know, the whole spread.
[00:10:56]  Trifecta and the box, this and that.
[00:10:58]  I don't even.
[00:10:58]  Right.
[00:10:58]  Because the more things you bet on that are correct, the more risk is involved, but the more payout is there.
[00:11:06]  Exactly.
[00:11:06]  Yeah.
[00:11:07]  Yeah.
[00:11:07]  And so what I did, and I kind of consulted with my former trainer what would be the best approach.
[00:11:13]  And he said, Brett, Brett, yeah.
[00:11:15]  Just try something simple like try to view the color of the winner.
[00:11:20]  Oh, that's interesting.
[00:11:21]  Every horse has a saddle color, right?
[00:11:23]  It's, Depends on how many there are, but there's always like red, yellow, blue, green, green, exactly, orange.
[00:11:29]  And if there's more horses, there's even more colors.
[00:11:32]  Anyway, so I would do kind of like a mini session sometimes before the race, or I would just kind of be like, what color do I see?
[00:11:39]  What comes to mind?
[00:11:40]  The first thing I think of, right?
[00:11:41]  Calm my mind, you know, be like, blue.
[00:11:43]  Okay.
[00:11:43]  So I bet on blue to be the winner.
[00:11:46]  And that day I went four for 10, which is statistically very interesting.
[00:11:53]  Yeah.
[00:11:54]  It's because this isn't.
[00:11:57]  Is this a 50 50 thing?
[00:11:59]  No.
[00:11:59]  So, if you randomly guessed, say there's 10 horses, you would have a one in 10 chance of getting it right.
[00:12:05]  You would have a one in 10 chance, right?
[00:12:07]  Yeah.
[00:12:07]  Because this isn't a 50 50, there's 10 horses.
[00:12:13]  Exactly.
[00:12:14]  You guessed correctly?
[00:12:15]  Correct.
[00:12:15]  Yeah.
[00:12:15]  That is incredible.
[00:12:18]  And actually, I don't know if this really means anything.
[00:12:19]  Maybe the statisticians out there can tell me, but nine out of the 10, I got a horse that placed.
[00:12:25]  So that's one, two, or three.
[00:12:27]  Yeah.
[00:12:28]  What is it?
[00:12:28]  The p value of that's got to be pretty high.
[00:12:30]  Yeah.
[00:12:31]  Yeah.
[00:12:31]  My friend, the math on stats, I'm bad, but I know that in remote viewing, they've calculated p value.
[00:12:37]  Yeah.
[00:12:38]  I think that's what it's called.
[00:12:39]  Yeah.
[00:12:39]  Where there's this number against all the variables that determines whether or not.
[00:12:45]  You know, on this is one in a million or whatever it is.
[00:12:48]  And that's something that they've seen with remote viewing time and time again.
[00:12:52]  And the reason they continued, you know, funding it.
[00:12:54]  Yeah.
[00:12:55]  So, yeah, you made money from that.
[00:12:57]  Yeah, that day.
[00:12:58]  So I put $100 in my account.
[00:13:00]  I think every game, every race, I bet like 10 or 20 bucks.
[00:13:05]  And I ended up ending the day with like $350 bucks because, and this is where I realized that my approach, while interesting, it may be the reason why you don't really see any.
[00:13:16]  Millionaire remote viewers, or maybe they are.
[00:13:18]  They just talk about it.
[00:13:19]  Is okay if I did that approach and I'm seeing the winning horse, most times the winning horse is going to be the favorite, right?
[00:13:27]  Which is a right not a great bet, right?
[00:13:30]  You're going to win, yeah, you won't win a lot.
[00:13:32]  You won't, you might win, but you won't win a lot.
[00:13:34]  So, were the horses that you bet on the favorites?
[00:13:36]  So, three of them were the favorites, and three of them that won were the favorites, exactly.
[00:13:40]  And the three of the four that I won, and I won a little bit maybe a 20 bucks or yeah, you double your bet type, yeah, but then the fourth one.
[00:13:47]  Was a huge underdog, and that's where you make the money, right?
[00:13:52]  Yeah, it's they'll pay 10x or whatever.
[00:13:54]  And that's where I think I won 200 bucks on that one.
[00:13:56]  Wow, yeah, so and it was wild.
[00:13:57]  The horse, I have it on video, it's gonna be in one of my videos.
[00:14:00]  But he that horse came from behind, I was just like, I'm not gonna win.
[00:14:04]  It was a weird color, too.
[00:14:05]  It was the gray saddle, which that came to me.
[00:14:07]  I was like, great, like, is what position?
[00:14:09]  There was a big race of like 13 horses, I think.
[00:14:12]  And man, it came down the home stretch like from the back.
[00:14:14]  How are you feeling in this, dude?
[00:14:16]  The reaction you understood why people go to horse races in that, yeah, exactly.
[00:14:20]  And the fact that I saw that, I remember we were eating Shake Shack.
[00:14:23]  There's a Shake Shack at the track.
[00:14:25]  And I was like, I'm going to do my session.
[00:14:26]  I was like, great, great, great, great.
[00:14:27]  It's coming to me.
[00:14:28]  This is the one.
[00:14:29]  And it was the one.
[00:14:30]  And during the race, my wife was with me.
[00:14:31]  She was like, sorry, buddy.
[00:14:33]  It's not going to happen.
[00:14:34]  And I was like, wow.
[00:14:34]  And then he came.
[00:14:35]  Was she also getting excited?
[00:14:37]  Yeah, that's so cool.
[00:14:38]  So, Brett Stewart, let's talk about the first person that we encounter in this journey.
[00:14:44]  Brett Stewart, who claims to do this for a living.
[00:14:48]  Yes.
[00:14:49]  Which, you know, anyone out there wondering whether or not.
[00:14:55]  Remote viewing is accurate.
[00:14:57]  If someone can make a living doing this, I mean, that's right.
[00:15:01]  Now, it is to be argued that perhaps he's got side hustles and maybe he teaches remote viewing on the side and that gives him some money.
[00:15:08]  And that's to be taken into account too.
[00:15:10]  But from what he was telling me, he was telling me that he was getting like above 50%.
[00:15:16]  Yeah.
[00:15:17]  I think in the 60s.
[00:15:18]  In the 60s, right.
[00:15:20]  And again, the p value of that, if anybody could control winning 60% of the time, you'd be a trillionaire.
[00:15:28]  Yeah.
[00:15:28]  Right?
[00:15:28]  Because you could bet all your money all the time, kind of thing, or half your money all the time, and eventually just win money.
[00:15:36]  So he does this for a living, which I thought was really interesting.
[00:15:39]  And so he's the one who's kind of guiding you in this betting process because this is his domain.
[00:15:44]  Yeah.
[00:15:46]  He learned this from a guy named Major Ed Dames.
[00:15:50]  Let's go down this road with Ed, good old Ed.
[00:15:52]  Now, have you read his book?
[00:15:55]  Yeah.
[00:15:55]  So I have as well as his audio book.
[00:15:57]  Very interesting.
[00:15:59]  And, you know, it's, I suggest you guys go listen to it.
[00:16:03]  It's, you know, if you take it as fiction, it is a great piece.
[00:16:07]  And if you take it as fact, it is a great piece.
[00:16:09]  And that's kind of how I view it.
[00:16:13]  Controversial figure in the remote viewing space.
[00:16:19]  And there's a few reasons why.
[00:16:22]  One is because if you've seen the movie Men Who Stare at Goats, which isn't a great reference for any of this, but it is a terrible movie, but it has its moments.
[00:16:34]  It's out there.
[00:16:35]  Kevin Spacey, you had Jeff Bridges.
[00:16:38]  No, not Jeff Bridges.
[00:16:39]  Who is it?
[00:16:39]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:16:40]  It was Jeff Bridges.
[00:16:41]  And George Clooney.
[00:16:42]  And Ewan McGregor.
[00:16:44]  And the Force and the Jedi and all those.
[00:16:46]  The writers must have mentioned the Force and having Jedi powers like a hundred times.
[00:16:51]  They had fun with it.
[00:16:53]  But he plays the role of Kevin Spacey.
[00:16:56]  So Kevin Spacey plays a role of Ed Dames in all of this and kind of quote unquote the asshole of the bunch who is very.
[00:17:05]  A villain.
[00:17:06]  A villain who wants to have remote viewing powers, but isn't the most gifted.
[00:17:12]  Yeah.
[00:17:12]  And who then takes control once it was passed on to the Army intelligence, who takes control of the program for a few years.
[00:17:21]  It was only like two years, I believe, two or three years.
[00:17:24]  And this is during, I think, the passing of Ingo Swan as well.

=== The Remote Viewing Project (09:26) ===

[00:17:29]  And so it is sort of bequeathed to Ed, and Ed sort of runs with this protocol and then makes his own protocol based on Ingo's work.
[00:17:42]  And that's where there was a riff between.
[00:17:46]  The other remote viewers, the scientists, and then Ed and his team.
[00:17:51]  Because Ed made this sort of protocol, this military, you can teach it to anyone, and it's just about practice.
[00:17:58]  Exactly.
[00:17:58]  The things that we've learned, the things that we've done, which have worked.
[00:18:03]  We can't say they didn't work.
[00:18:04]  They did work.
[00:18:05]  We did get some incredible results.
[00:18:07]  So there's that.
[00:18:10]  And then we'll get into the other stuff later, which is where the scientists and Joe McMonagall and Hal Puthoff and all of them, how they see remote viewing.
[00:18:20]  But let's talk about Ed for a second.
[00:18:23]  Meeting Ed after reading the book, what were your first impressions?
[00:18:26]  Right.
[00:18:27]  Well, so going into the meeting, first of all, anybody else that I've talked to about remote viewing, the people in that space, you know, it started with Brett, Brett's counterpart who hired me, and some other people I've met kind of in the ESP sci world.
[00:18:44]  Whenever I said Brett, they didn't, it's not that they didn't like Brett, but I think they knew it was associated with Ed.
[00:18:52]  Yeah.
[00:18:52]  And so there's always kind of like this stigma against Ed and his practices.
[00:18:56]  Oh, kind of controversial.
[00:18:57]  Everybody would say that.
[00:18:58]  Everybody.
[00:18:59]  Yeah.
[00:18:59]  Oh, my.
[00:19:00]  Okay.
[00:19:00]  Dang.
[00:19:00]  I learned from the wrong person, maybe.
[00:19:02]  Yeah.
[00:19:03]  And I don't know what that means.
[00:19:05]  You know, like in the memory world, there's some people that are like, yeah, he's, you know, and it's like you don't really know the intricacies of what that means.
[00:19:12]  Why?
[00:19:13]  So, yeah, we sat down.
[00:19:15]  Well, I met him at the airport.
[00:19:17]  He was the kindest man ever.
[00:19:20]  Took us around town, was so happy to meet us and talk to us.
[00:19:24]  He claimed to be a.
[00:19:25]  A hermit, so I could see how he was very excited to share with us.
[00:19:30]  He doesn't get out very often.
[00:19:31]  And get out and really, you know, let us know everything.
[00:19:35]  And share stories of his childhood and everything else.
[00:19:37]  It was really pleasant.
[00:19:38]  Yeah.
[00:19:38]  So, nothing against the man.
[00:19:40]  He was very pleasant.
[00:19:42]  I enjoyed the day and a half that we spent with him and the dinners that we shared.
[00:19:46]  But man, when we sat down to interview him and talk about the stories, you know, I walked out of that and I was just like, I don't know about this anymore.
[00:19:54]  Yeah.
[00:19:55]  It was bewildering.
[00:19:56]  Again, it was out there.
[00:19:59]  Yeah, it was out there.
[00:20:00]  And you guys can see that interview on Patreon, by the way.
[00:20:03]  You know, I cut it short for the sake of the video.
[00:20:07]  But if you have a look on Patreon, it's the full unedited version of Ed.
[00:20:12]  And that, if watching that gives you an idea of the conversations we had afterwards as well.
[00:20:17]  Because it jumps from, you know, ultra terrestrials to Sasquatch to the ghost of dinosaurs, you know, all these fantastical things.
[00:20:28]  And it's really hard for someone like us who's seeking, you know, part of me wants to believe this is real, right?
[00:20:37]  Initially, I get into this and I'm like, I'm hoping.
[00:20:40]  So there is a bias.
[00:20:42]  And although you would think hearing someone like Ed would strengthen that bias, it actually works contrary to it.
[00:20:51]  And it makes it really, really like afterwards, after that particular encounter, I felt myself backing away a little bit in the other direction.
[00:21:03]  You had the same feeling.
[00:21:04]  Yeah.
[00:21:05]  And, uh, however, you know, there were some really interesting things that he'd brought up and, uh, you know, talking about remote viewing aliens, which to me is, you know, endlessly fascinating because that's another thing I want to believe in.
[00:21:23]  Sure.
[00:21:23]  Yeah.
[00:21:24]  Um, but when it came to the practical remote viewing stuff, like he did a session in front of us, which again really got nowhere.
[00:21:31]  Uh, because he's like, Oh, this is where this guy is, yeah, right now.
[00:21:36]  I'm like, Okay, I could have said he's in a field of flowers, and there's no way of disproving that, right?
[00:21:40]  And a lot of what Ed was telling us, even the stories, there was no evidence I'm not gonna say proof, but there was no evidence, there was not a shred of evidence, no feedback, no feedback, whether he was right or wrong, exactly.
[00:21:54]  That bugged me, it bugged me.
[00:21:56]  Very much.
[00:21:57]  He had some cool stories, like I said, but you just have to take his word for it.
[00:22:00]  And memory is a tricky thing.
[00:22:02]  It tends to not play in your favor when we're counting facts.
[00:22:06]  Yeah.
[00:22:08]  So we leave, we go meet Ed.
[00:22:11]  There's this whole thing happening.
[00:22:13]  It was interesting because on that day, it was June 16th, there was also something going around on Twitter, which was the resonant frequency of the Earth was at 50.
[00:22:28]  Yeah.
[00:22:28]  As opposed to being around 7.8 and 15, somewhere around there.
[00:22:33]  And no one knew what that meant.
[00:22:34]  No one knew if that was a solar flare or if that was a malfunction in the equipment, but it was all the buzz on Twitter.
[00:22:41]  Did you feel differently that day?
[00:22:43]  I was just excited, but nothing out of the ordinary would have been like something's going on.
[00:22:48]  It just felt like a cool, interesting day where we were.
[00:22:51]  Yeah.
[00:22:52]  I felt more calm.
[00:22:54]  Okay.
[00:22:54]  And it was notable, like enough that I noted it even before I knew.
[00:22:59]  I was like, I feel really good about it.
[00:23:00]  I feel like in a good, and then I heard that it kind of like, Double down.
[00:23:04]  I was like, oh, it's this.
[00:23:05]  You know, my conspiracy mind took over.
[00:23:07]  Yeah.
[00:23:08]  Yeah, with Ed, you know, the thing that, like I said, that bugged me was everything, every session that he did, and all the like things he was telling us about remote viewing sessions he's done, projects he's working on, were all about things that you can never verify.
[00:23:25]  Yeah.
[00:23:26]  You know, that bugged me.
[00:23:27]  Where, you know, something to do with aliens and, you know, what happened a million years ago at this location.
[00:23:34]  Like, okay, it's interesting.
[00:23:36]  His theories for them or whatever he sees.
[00:23:39]  And then how, how, Certain he was.
[00:23:42]  That was another red flag.
[00:23:45]  There was no question he was wrong.
[00:23:47]  And everyone else was wrong.
[00:23:49]  And that to me is a red flag when you're the person who thinks the whole world is crazy and you're not crazy.
[00:23:56]  The likelihood is that it's the opposite.
[00:23:59]  I'm not saying he's crazy, but I'm saying that the claims he had, he was so certain of that he didn't leave a margin for error.
[00:24:07]  And from what we found out afterwards, speaking to other people in the remote viewing space, Was that there is a vast margin of error with remote viewing, and that is notable.
[00:24:19]  And scientists and physicists who study this will tell you it is not accurate.
[00:24:24]  It is not accurate, but it is also not to be dismissed.
[00:24:29]  And that's kind of what led to the ongoing of the project.
[00:24:34]  So we wrap up this thing with Ed, which, by the way, I want to thank Ed again.
[00:24:39]  It was really fun to get both sides of remote viewing, to get these crazy different.
[00:24:47]  Edges of the spectrum.
[00:24:48]  And I think in the world of remote viewing, I think more people would do a story on Ed and then separately do a story on someone else.
[00:24:55]  To have them both in the same video, I thought was really interesting.
[00:24:58]  One thing I want to say though, when he did do his session, I remember feeling really inspired by it.
[00:25:03]  Same.
[00:25:04]  I watched it and doing his practice and I was like, oh, this guy's really in it.
[00:25:08]  Like, I want to do a session.
[00:25:09]  Like, I want to be like this.
[00:25:11]  In the end, you know, he said that if you wanted to do a full session, it would have taken 45 minutes, 45 minutes or longer.
[00:25:17]  The detail that he goes to.
[00:25:19]  I remember we walked out for a break.
[00:25:21]  I was like, wow, that's, you know, it was really cool to watch him do that.
[00:25:24]  But then, you know, it didn't go anywhere.
[00:25:27]  So I was kind of let down a little bit.
[00:25:29]  But it looked like he was channeling something.
[00:25:32]  It also gave me a vibe of when I was in Nepal interviewing this guy that claimed to be a natural memory guy.
[00:25:42]  Oh, the speed reader guy.
[00:25:43]  Speed reader.
[00:25:43]  He could memorize a page just by and he'd read it.
[00:25:46]  Right.
[00:25:46]  And I interviewed him.
[00:25:48]  He did a demo and I left feeling so perplexed.
[00:25:51]  Sort of inspired and not sure what to think.
[00:25:53]  And it felt like that, you know, and it, not to say that Ed is a con man, but it felt like I had that like, yeah, he confused me, he tricked me maybe.
[00:26:05]  I, or there's a little bit of pizzazz there that he played.
[00:26:08]  I don't know.
[00:26:08]  The difference is there's what Ed's saying, there's no way of verifying it, right?
[00:26:13]  And so it does let you linger in that space a little longer.
[00:26:16]  And I remember actually during the session at one point, he was smelling something.
[00:26:22]  You kind of see him on camera and he's like disgusted by what he's smelling.
[00:26:25]  And before that happened, when he's picking up the smells, even before he was disgusted, I remember thinking to myself, pungent.
[00:26:29]  I kept getting pungent.
[00:26:31]  And then he said, pungent.
[00:26:33]  Yes.
[00:26:33]  And I was like, I was, I literally, like, my heart skipped a beat because I was like, this is what I was picking up.
[00:26:38]  And I feel like we were, and I mentioned to him, he's like, oh, that's a normal thing.
[00:26:40]  It happens all the time that people get, you know, the same feelings.
[00:26:43]  And hey, maybe he's right.
[00:26:44]  Yeah.
[00:26:44]  I think he might be on to something.
[00:26:45]  I forgot that part that, because I was over his shoulder filming.
[00:26:48]  And I remember, like, a millisecond before he would write something down, I almost felt what he was going to write down.
[00:26:54]  It was a really weird feeling.

=== Smelling the Pungent Agent (03:23) ===

[00:26:55]  Yeah.
[00:26:56]  So, you know, we end our time with Ed.
[00:27:00]  You know, Ed, I get the feeling Ed, you know, thinks this whole documentary was going to be about him, which maybe I didn't make it clear in the beginning and that was my fault that, you know, but I did tell him that we were going to be visiting other people.
[00:27:11]  But Ed wanted to get really deep into what it is he does.
[00:27:17]  And if you guys want to check out what Ed does, because I do think it's interesting and I do think it merits more investigation, because obviously he trained Brett and Brett does this for a living, and Ed claims he's got the best students in the country.
[00:27:29]  And we learn from them, and then we're seeing results.
[00:27:32]  We're newbies to this.
[00:27:33]  So there is something there.
[00:27:34]  And he was a part of these projects.
[00:27:36]  He was part of that.
[00:27:37]  That's not a lie.
[00:27:37]  That's real.
[00:27:38]  So why would he be there if there wasn't something to what he was able to do?
[00:27:42]  Correct.
[00:27:42]  Yeah, he was read in.
[00:27:44]  The other thing is, he told me about the billet structure that he was read in.
[00:27:48]  There were 100 people read into this project only, which means that as soon as someone leaves the project or retires or whatever, they bring one more person in, and that number caps at 100.
[00:27:58]  And so very highly, highly classified.
[00:28:01]  I can't stress this enough.
[00:28:03]  This was one of the most top secret projects ever in the United States government that we know about.
[00:28:10]  This is one of the top because you don't get top secret to that level and hear about it normally.
[00:28:17]  So, you know, one of the more notable unclassified projects ever in existence.
[00:28:25]  So, we ended our time with Ed.
[00:28:27]  And during this time, I was reaching out.
[00:28:32]  You know, I've reached out to Hal Putoff.
[00:28:34]  I've reached out to McMonagall.
[00:28:35]  We reached out to Pat Price, was it?
[00:28:38]  Or Paul Smith.
[00:28:39]  Paul Smith, yeah.
[00:28:41]  So, all these, we've reached out.
[00:28:44]  You know, I wanted to get as much information as I could.
[00:28:47]  Now, this brings us, we finished with Ed.
[00:28:49]  Let's talk about Joe McMonagall.
[00:28:52]  You know, we reached out to him online.
[00:28:55]  Nancy McMonagall Scooter responds, and, you know, she's super bubbly, lovely, full of energy.
[00:29:02]  She happens to be Bob Monroe's stepdaughter of the Monroe Institute and was director of the Monroe Institute several times, I believe.
[00:29:09]  Bob Monroe, who wrote Journeys Out of the Body, which was a book about outer body experiences, and they do studies at the Monroe Institute about outer body experiences, astral projection, the Gateway Project, which is also linked to the CIA.
[00:29:25]  Also, there's some declassified stuff there about us living in this hologram, and it's really crazy stuff.
[00:29:32]  And Joe was actually, and I guess this is how he met Nancy.
[00:29:38]  I didn't ask him, but Joe was actually asked to go to the Monroe Institute to be studied by Bob, by the DIA, I believe, the Defense Intelligence Agency.
[00:29:53]  They wanted him to spend the long weekends from Thursday to Sunday.
[00:29:59]  In Nelliesford, getting his, you know, his brain measured and doing all these tests.
[00:30:05]  And he did this for 14 months.
[00:30:07]  And he said he found some significant studies that showed that out of body actually does work.
[00:30:15]  But before we get into that, let's talk about meeting Joe.

=== Studied by Intelligence Agencies (15:22) ===

[00:30:18]  We go to his place, a beautiful little town, and he invites us into his home.
[00:30:22]  What are your first thoughts?
[00:30:24]  Yeah.
[00:30:25]  You know, I'd read a lot about him.
[00:30:26]  He's kind of like this mythical creature at the top of the remote viewing.
[00:30:30]  Chain, and there he was just sitting there.
[00:30:33]  And from what I had understood, is that he's hard to pin down for an interview.
[00:30:38]  Yeah, he refused so many interviews.
[00:30:40]  Yeah.
[00:30:40]  It's funny when we walked in, he's like, he turns to Nancy, a scooter, and he goes, See, I had a good feeling about these guys.
[00:30:49]  That made me feel so good when he said that.
[00:30:51]  Yeah.
[00:30:51]  I was like, Wow, you know, we're just two guys.
[00:30:54]  I got tattoos and stuff.
[00:30:56]  You know what I mean?
[00:30:57]  And we're coming barging in with these cameras.
[00:30:59]  With these cameras.
[00:30:59]  Not even professional.
[00:31:00]  Like, we just got our little, you know, dinky DSLRs and stuff.
[00:31:04]  It's not some big TV thing.
[00:31:06]  And yeah, he had a good feeling about us.
[00:31:07]  And we really got along.
[00:31:09]  Yeah.
[00:31:09]  And they were super welcoming and happy to.
[00:31:13]  Basically, let us do whatever we wanted.
[00:31:15]  Um, he showed us all around his house, so welcoming.
[00:31:19]  He had boxes filled with cassettes of his live appearances where he did remote over 60 live appearances on TV, 60 live remote viewing sessions on TV.
[00:31:30]  Uh, which is more than you can say for anyone else in the remote viewing space.
[00:31:34]  And I saw that, I mean, I was just like, man, these need to be out there.
[00:31:37]  Like, why does he have them here in this box?
[00:31:39]  I would love to digitize those and get those out because I'm working on that.
[00:31:43]  Okay, yeah, yeah.
[00:31:44]  I'm working on that.
[00:31:44]  I want him to get somebody to do it for him.
[00:31:47]  Yeah.
[00:31:48]  But those, because he did a TV show in Japan, which he touched on, where they had to find 24 missing people.
[00:31:54]  This is so fucking wild, honestly.
[00:31:56]  They had to find 24 missing people, and he ended up finding 12.
[00:31:59]  That's insane.
[00:32:01]  Insane.
[00:32:01]  We're talking double blind.
[00:32:03]  He has no idea what he's looking for.
[00:32:05]  He knows the person.
[00:32:06]  He describes the person.
[00:32:08]  It's so insane that, like, he's like, yeah, did you guys know he was Korean?
[00:32:15]  They're like, huh?
[00:32:16]  They went to double check.
[00:32:17]  Yeah, he was adopted by a Korean family.
[00:32:19]  He now lives in Korea.
[00:32:20]  This is outside of Japan.
[00:32:21]  He's in this building, on this floor, in this room.
[00:32:24]  Yeah.
[00:32:24]  Show up with the cameras.
[00:32:26]  They show up with the cameras.
[00:32:28]  There he is.
[00:32:28]  Their brother's crying, and they're all like, oh my God.
[00:32:29]  Like, that is crazy.
[00:32:32]  And that's actually a verified thing.
[00:32:33]  It's verified.
[00:32:35]  And they had skeptics on the show trying to figure out how to.
[00:32:38]  Trying to disprove him actively.
[00:32:40]  Yeah.
[00:32:40]  Like, after the show, even going behind there, looking like this is a trick.
[00:32:43]  This is a trick.
[00:32:44]  He knows something.
[00:32:45]  How does he know anything about a missing person?
[00:32:47]  Right.
[00:32:47]  The missing person was brought to him.
[00:32:49]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:32:50]  Yeah.
[00:32:50]  And so that was one of the most.
[00:32:52]  Uh, so he showed us some of those sample sessions, and when I saw him, I was just like, So, where is this your final like debrief?
[00:33:00]  Used as well.
[00:33:01]  Because it looked, it was so like matter of fact.
[00:33:02]  Here's the height, the name, street games, subway maps.
[00:33:07]  He drew.
[00:33:08]  And he's like, no, no, this is my session.
[00:33:09]  You know, and you compare it to the sessions we do where it's like different stages.
[00:33:12]  Yeah, we're like, we're like edgy, scratchy, smells warm.
[00:33:17]  Yeah.
[00:33:17]  Like all these.
[00:33:18]  Yeah.
[00:33:19]  He was like, no, this person is five foot nine.
[00:33:21]  Their age range is between like 57, 58.
[00:33:23]  Yeah.
[00:33:24]  No margin of error.
[00:33:25]  No like scratches off or like side notes.
[00:33:28]  It's all just like written there.
[00:33:29]  So, That was surprising to me.
[00:33:31]  It told me, like, okay, this person has a whole other game, a whole other game, and a whole other process, too, which I have never been shown yet.
[00:33:39]  You know, that got me so excited.
[00:33:42]  Dude, it got me excited, but at the same time, it's like seeing someone who's super talented in a field that you want to pursue and it kind of discourages you.
[00:33:50]  That, too, yeah.
[00:33:50]  Where I'm like, well, I'm going to fucking give up.
[00:33:52]  This guy's way too good.
[00:33:54]  But you also are like, well, he's got a different technique.
[00:33:56]  Maybe if I learn better, I'll learn better.
[00:33:58]  That's right.
[00:33:59]  That's what I thought.
[00:34:00]  And I'm interested to figure out what that technique is in time.
[00:34:04]  I hope it's not just feel it.
[00:34:06]  Yeah.
[00:34:07]  Just write what comes to mind.
[00:34:08]  I hope there's more to it than that.
[00:34:09]  There probably is.
[00:34:10]  Here's the thing.
[00:34:12]  Here is the thing.
[00:34:13]  Because I think speaking with Ed, I have to also, speaking with, sorry, Joe, I have to also speak about Dr. Ed May.
[00:34:22]  Okay.
[00:34:22]  Who was, who is still the chief, you know, researcher and physicist and scientist behind remote viewing, still to this day, still studying.
[00:34:32]  And he was a monitor, right?
[00:34:35]  Yeah.
[00:34:35]  He was the senior scientist at SRI.
[00:34:37]  So he was up there.
[00:34:42]  They had to, I mean, the scrutiny that they had to build to really study this because they are, you have to understand, like, you know, Joe can have his stories and Ed, you know, Ed Dames can have his stories, but this is a physicist.
[00:34:59]  This is someone who was hired to study it and to be skeptical, to be the most skeptical and to create the protocol.
[00:35:08]  That needed to be put in place in order to measure this properly, statistically, scientifically.
[00:35:13]  And we're talking everything from numbers, from them measuring their brainwaves to everything to remote viewing and submarines.
[00:35:20]  Like they tested it to no extent.
[00:35:23]  Like there's so much work on this stuff.
[00:35:25]  You know, Joe even jokes about there's more studies on this than there is about aspirin, which I thought was interesting.
[00:35:32]  And so they put together, Ed was asked, was tasked to put together.
[00:35:39]  First of all, they had to start with the remote viewers.
[00:35:42]  They reached out to 600.
[00:35:46]  This is from Ed.
[00:35:46]  They reached out to 600 people.
[00:35:50]  And these weren't random people.
[00:35:52]  So these were like mental level, some of them, so geniuses.
[00:35:55]  Other were in CIA intelligence and so really smart people.
[00:36:00]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:36:01]  Autistic, even.
[00:36:04]  They would go there.
[00:36:04]  So they made a group.
[00:36:06]  And out of those 600, Ed said there's only 1% that has notable psychic ability.
[00:36:16]  Interesting.
[00:36:18]  And so they, I think, whittled it down to like 10.
[00:36:21]  But even now, if you speak to Joe and if you speak to Ed May, they'll tell you there's like four or five that are really good.
[00:36:27]  Right.
[00:36:27]  Joe was saying that.
[00:36:28]  Yeah.
[00:36:28]  And you want to know the interesting thing that you didn't hear?
[00:36:32]  Because you're like, okay, what do they have in common?
[00:36:33]  Because they looked for all the commonalities.
[00:36:35]  Oh, sure.
[00:36:36]  The only commonality.
[00:36:38]  Yeah.
[00:36:39]  Very significant.
[00:36:42]  They all had synesthesia.
[00:36:45]  Oh, wow.
[00:36:46]  Each one of them.
[00:36:48]  Did Joe have?
[00:36:49]  I believe so.
[00:36:50]  We didn't talk about it, but this is what Ed May said.
[00:36:52]  They all do.
[00:36:53]  Wow.
[00:36:54]  And not even like a light form of synesthesia, like straight up hearing colors and seeing sounds and shit like that.
[00:37:02]  Wow.
[00:37:03]  So this is, so I'm like, well, that's something that you guys can look for now.
[00:37:08]  I was like, absolutely.
[00:37:09]  It's like that is, it's not something they planned out and it's just something that happened that way.
[00:37:14]  I have a close friend in the memory world who has a very significant synesthesia.
[00:37:20]  I should ask her if she has any.
[00:37:22]  Ooh.
[00:37:23]  You know, that would be.
[00:37:24]  Because I was talking about in memory how I haven't trained synesthesia essentially for numbers and things like that, but it's not natural.
[00:37:30]  But for this memory athlete, she has it.
[00:37:33]  She's always had it, you know?
[00:37:37]  So there's another portion of this that might be.
[00:37:41]  Tough because does she sort of have this automatic memory?
[00:37:47]  She is amazing, one of the best at say words and names and others, but those are so natural for her.
[00:37:54]  Sometimes when you ask her, like, what's your technique?
[00:37:57]  And you hear her talk about it, it's kind of what I do, but on another level where it's automatic, you're not really doing anything, you're just being you.
[00:38:05]  They're frustrating, right?
[00:38:07]  Well, I mean, Ed had mentioned that those make terrible remote viewers.
[00:38:10]  Oh, really?
[00:38:10]  Yeah.
[00:38:11]  Okay.
[00:38:11]  He had this guy who is like the best memory guy.
[00:38:15]  He did like 30,000 digits of pi, 35,000 digits.
[00:38:18]  You might know him.
[00:38:19]  Is it Daniel Tamet?
[00:38:20]  I could be.
[00:38:21]  Because I reached out to him recently because I want to talk to him about physics stuff.
[00:38:25]  And that was the first name he threw at me.
[00:38:27]  And I know a lot about Daniel Tamet.
[00:38:29]  He's a bit of a con artist.
[00:38:31]  I wonder if that's him.
[00:38:32]  I know he memorized a lot of digits to that extent.
[00:38:35]  This person was autistic or on the spectrum.
[00:38:37]  That's the guy.
[00:38:38]  Okay.
[00:38:39]  Asperger's, right?
[00:38:41]  Ed.
[00:38:41]  Yeah.
[00:38:41]  Ed.
[00:38:42]  You tested him?
[00:38:43]  Yep.
[00:38:44]  And they said no good.
[00:38:46]  The thing is, there's some stuff about him.
[00:38:49]  Whether he was, well, I don't think there's any argument over whether he was on the spectrum or not, but whether he was using memory techniques or having a natural ability was largely in question.
[00:39:00]  He's mentioned at the end of Moonwalking with Einstein, if you want to go back and reread.
[00:39:04]  Yeah.
[00:39:06]  So the problem that he found with memory athletes, not memory, so I don't think he knows the difference between a memory athlete and someone who has like, Photographic memory.
[00:39:18]  Okay.
[00:39:19]  Because I do think that's like a condition you have, like when you're on the spectrum and you have this sort of photographic memory.
[00:39:25]  But most people don't know that memory athletes are just average people who practice.
[00:39:32]  But what they found is that they're very front loaded.
[00:39:35]  The overlays are insane with people with like this automatic memory because they will recall so many things.
[00:39:46]  I see.
[00:39:47]  And so, as soon as you feel something or it maps to something, it jumps on this neural pathway and you get an image.
[00:39:56]  And so, you become immensely front loaded.
[00:39:58]  Got it.
[00:39:58]  And that was a process.
[00:39:59]  It's hard to kind of block out that.
[00:40:00]  Right.
[00:40:01]  Which is not what you have.
[00:40:02]  And that's what I was trying to explain to Ed, but I don't think he really understood.
[00:40:05]  I think for him, that's a whole, no memory people are bad at it.
[00:40:08]  But I don't think most people understand what memory athletes are.
[00:40:12]  But maybe I'm wrong.
[00:40:14]  Maybe he doesn't understand.
[00:40:16]  Yeah.
[00:40:17]  I'll have to ask him more.
[00:40:19]  Yeah.
[00:40:19]  So that was, you know, we talked to Joe about all this.
[00:40:23]  He, you know, he mentions all sorts of rigorous training and, you know, military guy, man.
[00:40:31]  These guys, they get up at four in the morning and they're like, you know, working for 12, 14 hours a day, seven days a week, and all for, you know, progress and being studied and stress.
[00:40:43]  Yeah.
[00:40:43]  He talked a lot about the stress of that job.
[00:40:46]  Some of the tasks they have to do just.
[00:40:48]  Weighed so heavily on them.
[00:40:49]  Yeah, some of them quit.
[00:40:50]  A lot of them quit.
[00:40:51]  Most of them quit.
[00:40:52]  They couldn't handle the stress.
[00:40:54]  I mean, the stress and what we mean by stress isn't just remote viewing under pressure.
[00:41:00]  It's a lot of times being taped, being videoed, being monitored by DOD, by DIA, by all these three letter agencies that you're speaking about your career, your job safety, and the fear of missing a target or not being accurate.
[00:41:23]  You know, it's linked directly into the fear of losing your job, yeah.
[00:41:26]  So it must be definitely a high stress environment, all while doing something that is ridiculed, yeah.
[00:41:32]  And and you know, like you have that pressure, right?
[00:41:35]  You can't kind of talk about it or you don't want to talk about it because you'll be laughed at, yep.
[00:41:39]  Yeah, that's that's tough.
[00:41:41]  Uh, I asked Ed May, um, in the interview, I was like, you know, is this I had to ask, you know, is this what is this real?
[00:41:52]  And he says to me, he's like, let's say you're a chef and you have.
[00:41:58]  I love physicists, by the way, because they fucking dumb it down for me.
[00:42:02]  They're so smart that they're like, oh, here's your reading level.
[00:42:06]  He goes, let's say you're a chef and you're opening this restaurant.
[00:42:10]  You have 19 seats.
[00:42:12]  And first night, you open the restaurant to great success 19 people.
[00:42:17]  Great.
[00:42:18]  Second night, 17 of those 19 people return.
[00:42:23]  Is that a success?
[00:42:24]  Yeah.
[00:42:25]  Yeah.
[00:42:25]  Gold star.
[00:42:26]  Oh, yeah.
[00:42:27]  Well, there are 19 of these intelligence agencies in the United States.
[00:42:32]  Okay.
[00:42:33]  17 of them came back.
[00:42:35]  Oh, yeah.
[00:42:35]  Time and time again.
[00:42:36]  Yeah.
[00:42:37]  They came back up to close to 500 times total with individual missions, we'll say.
[00:42:45]  They wanted that delicious dessert again.
[00:42:48]  He has a graph of all the agencies, how many times they came back each.
[00:42:54]  Cool.
[00:42:54]  And now.
[00:42:55]  99% of all of these missions are still classified.
[00:42:58]  But he showed me the graph, which is interesting.
[00:43:01]  And the DIA came back 172 times for individual missions, not including the times they came back for the same missions.
[00:43:07]  They loved their work, what they were doing.
[00:43:11]  And part of that was, I believe, it was like finding drugs coming off boats.
[00:43:20]  And the remote viewers were just really good at it.
[00:43:23]  And I guess, again, it speaks to the entropy of maybe the product that was on board or something.
[00:43:28]  And they could clearly see it.
[00:43:30]  So they came back 172 times because they were like, yep, this works.
[00:43:33]  They love it.
[00:43:33]  And it's cheap.
[00:43:34]  Yeah.
[00:43:34]  Right?
[00:43:35]  It's super cheap.
[00:43:36]  You need paper and a pen.
[00:43:37]  CIA, like once or twice.
[00:43:39]  FBI, once or twice.
[00:43:42]  But then, yeah, you had all these other agencies so many times.
[00:43:47]  Very interesting.
[00:43:48]  All right, let's get back to Joe a bit.
[00:43:51]  Joe, you know, takes us through his home.
[00:43:52]  Lots of, you look through his home, lots of like Asian inspiration.
[00:43:58]  He spent a lot of time overseas, you know, in working in Japan.
[00:44:03]  I believe in like Vietnam also.
[00:44:05]  And so heavily inspired by like Buddhist and Asian culture.
[00:44:11]  We got to look at his bookshelf.
[00:44:12]  Got to look at all this stuff, which is really cool.
[00:44:15]  Um, do you recall any of the remote viewing sessions that he had or like stories he had related to remote viewing?
[00:44:23]  Yeah, I mean, the big one was, and this was after he we were talking for like an hour and a half already.
[00:44:28]  And you know, he's telling me normal stories that were very believable.
[00:44:32]  Uh, and then you know, at this point, I'm like, I'm in, you know, this, I trust this guy, I have a good feeling, like, I can't imagine this guy's making any of this up for that.
[00:44:41]  He's not able to do what he's talking about, and then he loads us with this.
[00:44:46]  Remote viewing session he did where he viewed Mars a million years ago.
[00:44:50]  Yeah.
[00:44:52]  And, you know, it's, you think, okay, well, I just believed everything he said.
[00:44:56]  So I probably have to believe this too.
[00:44:57]  Yeah.
[00:44:58]  You know?
[00:45:00]  And you talk about on your other podcast a little bit if you want to see that.
[00:45:04]  Yeah.
[00:45:04]  I also, there is a video or there will be a video out on it that I'm making individually on this channel.
[00:45:13]  So I don't know if, yeah, but this is it here the Mars Exploration.
[00:45:16]  Oh, yeah.
[00:45:16]  And what's interesting about this is, like Nelson mentioned, he showed us sessions that were highly accurate.
[00:45:23]  Actually, before we get into this one, let's talk about the session where you follow the agent.
[00:45:26]  Oh, yeah.
[00:45:28]  Okay.
[00:45:28]  He was tasked to find the location of an agent for one of these intelligence agencies.
[00:45:37]  And the agent would be at three different locations.

=== Rigorous Parapsychology Tests (05:42) ===

[00:45:41]  And I mean, it is okay.
[00:45:44]  Maybe let's back even further.
[00:45:47]  When Joe was entered into this project, let's talk about this.
[00:45:51]  He had to do a test right off the bat.
[00:45:53]  Oh, right.
[00:45:54]  Six, five remote viewing sessions.
[00:45:58]  He scored a one out of four.
[00:46:01]  That's how they measure it.
[00:46:02]  They have one, two, three, four, four being nothing, three being maybe, two being okay, pretty close.
[00:46:08]  Like you're in the vicinity, one being dead on.
[00:46:11]  Yeah.
[00:46:11]  And so most of the times you would find it between the two and four range.
[00:46:15]  Joe scored four number ones.
[00:46:17]  They'd never seen it to this day and never seen anything like it.
[00:46:20]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:46:20]  And you have to understand what that means is that these physicists are testing, these scientists are testing Joe, and they make no distinction between what Joe is seeing and what the target is.
[00:46:33]  That is the number one.
[00:46:34]  It is not, oh, yeah, it's kind of, it is one for one.
[00:46:38]  That is remarkable.
[00:46:41]  After Joe did that, he tanked.
[00:46:43]  Yeah, he had like what?
[00:46:44]  20 to 30 sessions.
[00:46:46]  Bad sessions.
[00:46:47]  That were just terrible.
[00:46:48]  He was even beating up on himself and everything else until he had this.
[00:46:52]  Other session where he got this headache and this loud sound, and then it was an alarm, and he got right back into it.
[00:46:57]  So it's something about confidence, too, that speaks in.
[00:47:00]  Wrote a whole paper about that.
[00:47:03]  But then they had that.
[00:47:04]  And to jump back to Ed during this time, Ed was tasked, I think, with other people in creating a team of scientists who would study, who would actively try and disprove this.
[00:47:18]  There were a dozen of them.
[00:47:21]  And these are people, highest researchers in their field, in physics and all of this, right?
[00:47:27]  Just really, really smart people who had to come up with a protocol.
[00:47:30]  And that protocol was like, hey, You have to do this under these conditions, or else we can't measure it.
[00:47:37]  And they did that.
[00:47:37]  And they continued studying it for two decades because it was so riveting.
[00:47:41]  He even had people come in and try and disprove it.
[00:47:43]  And he said, Hey, if you can disprove it, one guy, one of the smartest geniuses that this guy knows, like a Nobel winner or whatever, he goes, I think this is all bullshit.
[00:47:58]  And he's like, I know.
[00:48:00]  He's like, All right, I'm going to study this.
[00:48:01]  I'm going to look into it for like a year.
[00:48:04]  And if.
[00:48:05]  And then Ed May says, if you convince these other 12 people that this is bullshit, I will retire happily and I will work for you.
[00:48:16]  We will study whatever you're working on.
[00:48:18]  And he goes, okay.
[00:48:19]  And he's like, no, no, that's not all.
[00:48:21]  If you work with these 12 people for the next year and find that there's something to this, you got to work on this project.
[00:48:28]  And he's like, deal to this day.
[00:48:30]  Yeah.
[00:48:31]  The guy works on this project.
[00:48:32]  Oh, he does?
[00:48:32]  Okay.
[00:48:34]  So, really interesting little tidbit of information.
[00:48:37]  But it just shows you the absolute rigor that these, and this has to be emphasized.
[00:48:41]  This isn't up in the air.
[00:48:42]  This isn't us sitting at our desk doing a little session.
[00:48:45]  This is like a closed room, double blind.
[00:48:48]  We're going to look hard and long at these sessions.
[00:48:52]  And they even had a structure for what was really interesting.
[00:48:58]  They called it a fuzzy set and a clear set.
[00:49:01]  And so a clear set would be if you were to name all the countries that had a million or more people, all the cities that had a million or more people.
[00:49:10]  You could name those, but then you're discluding all the ones that might be one short, yeah, because it wouldn't be clear set if they were one short, and so there has to be a way of measuring that, too.
[00:49:19]  That's what they call a fuzzy set, okay.
[00:49:21]  And so they had to figure out a way of measuring the intangible or measuring you know the subjective.
[00:49:27]  And the way they did that was the monitor would then ask the remote viewer and look at the drawing, let's say, and he would say, What portion of the drawing is a building?
[00:49:42]  What percentage of the drawing is a building and how accurate is this to a building?
[00:49:48]  So, if it was this with windows, it might be 80%.
[00:49:52]  Okay.
[00:49:52]  But if it was just this, it's like 20, 30%.
[00:49:55]  Okay.
[00:49:55]  Right.
[00:49:55]  So, they would have to be tasked, the monitor would have to be tasked on describing everything and going through it and being like, is this this?
[00:50:03]  It's a lot more rigorous than I imagine.
[00:50:05]  Yeah.
[00:50:05]  Exactly.
[00:50:06]  And then they would have a number 70% it was this.
[00:50:10]  And then they would measure that up against the target itself.
[00:50:12]  Okay.
[00:50:13]  And even like, Like, what portion of the paper does it occupy, and like things like that?
[00:50:17]  Cool, so very rigorous and very, uh, very much they wanted to actively disprove it, that was their job, so that they could continue their research, you know.
[00:50:28]  And you don't want to be a scientist, a physicist, pretending, right?
[00:50:34]  What the is that, yeah, for 20 years, right?
[00:50:36]  Can you imagine having a doctorate at Harvard or whatever, winning a Nobel Prize or whatever it is, and being and just like turning a blind eye and being biased, like, what the is that, yeah?
[00:50:47]  I mean, I. On one level, I can understand maybe in academia, you know, you've studied something for so long.
[00:50:54]  It's going to be hard to shift those people, to shift your worldview.
[00:50:58]  You know, you might stand by your results.
[00:50:59]  But these are people who are skeptic.
[00:51:01]  They had to be skeptic and they had to have an open mind.
[00:51:04]  So those are the two factors that they had to have.
[00:51:06]  Well, I was going to say, ultimately, for me, the reason I studied physics was because I wanted definite answers about the world in a very scientific way.
[00:51:14]  So as a physicist, I feel like that's what you're after is the right answer.
[00:51:19]  You know, the evidence and the way you study it is going to be what you base those.

=== Skeptics and Coordinates (12:43) ===

[00:51:24]  But somebody who's got a degree in, let's say, psychology, you know, it could be argued the last thing they want to do is go into parapsychology because it feels, it sounds a little.
[00:51:33]  Yeah.
[00:51:34]  It's going to be a giggle factor.
[00:51:35]  Yeah.
[00:51:36]  You know, but it's, I think one person who, I'd have to go back in the interview, but somebody who studied this parapsychology the most was actually the head of the psychology institute in England or whatever it was.
[00:51:51]  And, And so, like, very credible people in the psychology world studying parapsychology because there is something there.
[00:51:57]  Okay.
[00:51:57]  Yeah.
[00:51:59]  So we get through all this.
[00:52:01]  It's clear as day that Joe McMonagall has absolute talent and a gift.
[00:52:09]  He is then asked to follow these three agents and describe their whereabouts.
[00:52:16]  And the agent, the descriptors and the drawings are fucking crazy accurate.
[00:52:23]  The first one, he's seeing this, he doesn't even know how to describe it because it's so complex.
[00:52:29]  And it happens to be a, what do you call it, a collider or a.
[00:52:34]  Yeah, an accelerator.
[00:52:36]  Particle accelerator.
[00:52:38]  And so he just literally says particle accelerator because it was so complicated.
[00:52:42]  Yeah, that's how accurate this guy is.
[00:52:45]  Secondly, he says he's in a field somewhere.
[00:52:48]  There's a lot of hills and there's wind turbines in some type of valley.
[00:52:53]  And the third one, he's in a T shaped building at the very top floor with his feet up on the desk.
[00:52:59]  And we'll call it the A building, he says.
[00:53:02]  And so they get the first result back.
[00:53:05]  He was indeed in the Stanford science vicinity in a particle accelerator in the room of a particle accelerator, so dead on.
[00:53:18]  Second one, and we have a session.
[00:53:20]  Second one, he was in fact in the middle of a field, a bunch of wind turbines in Northern California, Southern California, one of those.
[00:53:31]  And the third, he was in a T shaped building and the top floor with his feet on the desk.
[00:53:36]  And this building was called the A building, and these are this is.
[00:53:39]  Fucking insane to me.
[00:53:41]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:53:41]  You know, and a lot of that has to do with what he said again was like the production of energy, which makes it come through stronger.
[00:53:50]  Again, that entropy.
[00:53:51]  So, like the windmills and the generator.
[00:53:54]  Yeah.
[00:53:56]  And so, that, and so we see the evidence of that.
[00:53:59]  We see the, I've spoken to Ed who confirms this, Ed May, and we see his sessions.
[00:54:07]  So, we know that this is evidence.
[00:54:10]  Yeah.
[00:54:10]  This is credible evidence.
[00:54:14]  Now he talks about Mars.
[00:54:15]  Right.
[00:54:16]  That's where we get fucked up.
[00:54:17]  Yeah.
[00:54:18]  And it's, I mean, he was the first to say that this is, you can't verify it.
[00:54:23]  And he hates those targets.
[00:54:24]  I like that about Joe that he said that.
[00:54:26]  He doesn't like to do those where Ed, that's all he did.
[00:54:29]  That's all he does.
[00:54:29]  He's like, where's the Holy Grail?
[00:54:30]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:54:31]  I'm going to find it.
[00:54:32]  So that was interesting that he felt that way.
[00:54:36]  But yeah, basically, he's talking about how he was seeing these pyramids.
[00:54:41]  Again, he's double blind, he doesn't know that he's seeing Mars a million years ago.
[00:54:46]  Pyramids with these 10 foot tall beings who look like us.
[00:54:50]  Look like us.
[00:54:51]  They're inside the pyramids preparing for something, right?
[00:54:54]  To leave or something like that.
[00:54:55]  They're in a hibernation chamber, is what he called it, so that they can sort of weather out.
[00:55:03]  It's like almost like shelter you from the storm and waiting on someone to return.
[00:55:09]  So they're kind of like biding their time because their planet is dying.
[00:55:15]  That is like the feeling you got.
[00:55:16]  He even said the sun looked weird.
[00:55:17]  Yeah, yeah, right.
[00:55:18]  And then the monitor who was.
[00:55:20]  Possibly Ed at this point was like, don't.
[00:55:22]  Oh, no, it was Bob Monroe.
[00:55:24]  It was Bob Monroe because Bob Monroe was the Department of Defense, DOD, that had a target that brought it to Bob Monroe, folded it, put it in his pocket.
[00:55:34]  Bob Monroe did not see this.
[00:55:36]  And Ed was in one of these pods getting rest after one of these long sessions that he was doing, like remote viewing and astral projection, all this.
[00:55:48]  And then so he's in this state of.
[00:55:51]  You know, here or there.
[00:55:53]  And then he, you know, sees the target.
[00:55:55]  And it's again, he's this is double blind.
[00:55:58]  So Bob doesn't know, Ed doesn't know what the target is, or Bob doesn't know, and Joe doesn't know.
[00:56:02]  Right.
[00:56:04]  And he's all he's given is geographical coordinates.
[00:56:10]  Now, one would assume that geographical coordinates would be on Earth.
[00:56:14]  And I'm sure that's what he is.
[00:56:16]  He didn't assume otherwise.
[00:56:17]  Right.
[00:56:17]  There's no reason for him to assume otherwise.
[00:56:18]  He has this, he's given the coordinates.
[00:56:23]  There's a set of coordinates, maybe five or six, and one at a time he's asked to describe.
[00:56:28]  I have the transcript here, which I pulled off the CIA website, which are declassified right now.
[00:56:34]  What's really crazy is that it's really hard to find things on that website.
[00:56:39]  Yeah, everything's and this is what Joe said.
[00:56:43]  Joe said they would, he's like, Oh, you want all the information perfect, they'd scramble all the papers and be like, Yeah, it's disseminated now, but good luck, you figure it out, putting it together.
[00:56:53]  And so it says here method of site acquisition sealed envelope coupled with geographic coordinates.
[00:56:58]  The sealed envelope was given to the subject immediately prior to the interview.
[00:57:03]  The envelope was not opened until after the interview.
[00:57:05]  In the envelope was a three by five card with the following information The planet Mars, time of interest approximately 1 million years BC.
[00:57:14]  Selected geographic coordinates provided by the parties requesting the information were verbally given to the subject during the interview.
[00:57:21]  This is crazy that that's like, this is a real session.
[00:57:24]  This is the real session.
[00:57:24]  Real session.
[00:57:25]  Yeah, given by Bob Monroe.
[00:57:26]  And it doesn't say who.
[00:57:28]  So when I read this online, which, I mean, You know, you find this online, you're like, this is really interesting, and some TikTok video talking about it.
[00:57:35]  But then there's no way of knowing who did this session.
[00:57:38]  And I think Joe mentioned it in his book, and I was like, wait, that's Joe?
[00:57:43]  And it just gave more credence to it in my mind.
[00:57:46]  And so, you know, go watch that video if it's up about that.
[00:57:50]  But he explains, yeah, these hibernation chambers and these beings and the sun being weird and these giant pyramids.
[00:58:00]  He's saying you could fit three of the Giza pyramids inside.
[00:58:00]  Yeah.
[00:58:04]  Right, massive ones.
[00:58:06]  Which is so crazy.
[00:58:08]  And he kept wondering, is this a new discovery?
[00:58:11]  He kept saying, Yeah, he couldn't understand how this was actually being.
[00:58:14]  Yeah.
[00:58:15]  Where was this on Earth?
[00:58:17]  Yeah.
[00:58:18]  And it's funny because at the end of this session, too, it talks about them getting into a giant metallic ship, going to another place which has different vegetation and all of this.
[00:58:28]  And you assume it's Earth.
[00:58:29]  Yeah.
[00:58:30]  Because, wow.
[00:58:30]  Joe doesn't talk about that in our interview.
[00:58:32]  He kind of like, because I think his memory is a little hazy on it.
[00:58:35]  He recalled what he could.
[00:58:36]  But it was just so fascinating to hear that because once he saw this, he was like, What the fuck?
[00:58:43]  Yeah.
[00:58:43]  Like, that is crazy.
[00:58:45]  Yeah.
[00:58:45]  And his drawings and everything.
[00:58:46]  Like, I mean, the drawings are, again, detailed.
[00:58:51]  This could have been a soccer field.
[00:58:56]  Right, right.
[00:58:57]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:58:57]  Could have been anything.
[00:58:58]  You know, and for him to be like, The sun looks weird.
[00:59:01]  Oh, there's like these beings, and we're talking about Mars, dude.
[00:59:04]  Come on.
[00:59:05]  Yeah.
[00:59:05]  Come on.
[00:59:07]  And you see the, I don't know how, I didn't quite understand this.
[00:59:10]  The photos he showed us of actual Mars surface where there was some object that looked like a pyramid.
[00:59:16]  Yeah.
[00:59:17]  Was that, so he does this session and then they go grab them if you want to keep talking.
[00:59:22]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:59:23]  So basically there's, yes, these are actual, if you all remember, I think it was in the early 2000s, there was this famous face on Mars photo and it looked like somebody's face on the surface, right?
[00:59:36]  And then I think later on, NASA gave other pictures that said, hey, it's not actually a face.
[00:59:42]  If you look at it at this angle, it looks nothing like it.
[00:59:43]  It was just the way it was taken.
[00:59:44]  Yeah, they did have different angles.
[00:59:47]  But there was some question about whether that was doctored or something, right?
[00:59:50]  Yeah.
[00:59:51]  Yeah.
[00:59:52]  His book, by the way, Stargate Chronicles Memoirs of a Psychic Spy, highly encourage you to check it out or on Audible.
[01:00:00]  So, my question was were these photos part of the session?
[01:00:04]  Yeah.
[01:00:05]  Was the target that he was given tied to that photo or not necessarily?
[01:00:13]  They found that after.
[01:00:14]  Him being a spy, took these coordinates and went straight to NASA.
[01:00:18]  Oh, okay.
[01:00:19]  And said, I want these photos of Mars with these coordinates.
[01:00:23]  Okay.
[01:00:23]  And he was given those photos.
[01:00:25]  So the coordinates are there.
[01:00:26]  This is what he remote viewed.
[01:00:29]  Yeah, okay.
[01:00:29]  So he was remote viewing the location and place that they told him, but there's actual photos of that place.
[01:00:38]  Yes.
[01:00:38]  So these are.
[01:00:40]  How old are these from?
[01:00:40]  Like 2004 or something?
[01:00:44]  No, this was way earlier, actually.
[01:00:46]  Well, no, these satellite images.
[01:00:48]  Oh, the satellite images.
[01:00:49]  Good question.
[01:00:51]  I feel like they're fairly recent.
[01:00:52]  I mean, last year's.
[01:00:54]  Maybe.
[01:00:55]  I'd have to look into it.
[01:00:56]  That's a good question.
[01:00:57]  I don't know.
[01:00:57]  I don't want to say anything because I don't know.
[01:00:59]  So this is like his drawings.
[01:01:02]  Yeah.
[01:01:02]  Which, again, you look at that and he's.
[01:01:04]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:01:06]  These are a bit upside down.
[01:01:07]  I wonder why he collated them.
[01:01:08]  This is for his book.
[01:01:11]  Oh, okay.
[01:01:11]  He gave us those copies?
[01:01:13]  Yeah.
[01:01:14]  He's going to give us like a photocopy.
[01:01:15]  I know.
[01:01:16]  And then the beings here, like these drawings for size, an actual human versus this other 10 foot tall being.
[01:01:23]  Look at these structures.
[01:01:24]  Yeah.
[01:01:25]  He said this was a collapsed building.
[01:01:27]  And you look at here, there's like even like canals and this lengthy structure here.
[01:01:36]  Yeah.
[01:01:37]  More structures here.
[01:01:38]  This is kind of what he was seeing here.
[01:01:40]  Yeah.
[01:01:41]  And this.
[01:01:41]  If you look at this and this, look at those two.
[01:01:45]  Right, right, right.
[01:01:46]  Yeah.
[01:01:46]  It's crazy.
[01:01:48]  And on that one pyramid photo, the shadow is absurdly.
[01:01:52]  Yeah, we'll look at that one next, I think, which is this one here, which is that.
[01:01:57]  But then we have this one, this notable one, which is very notable because you can see that there is this giant crater, and beside it is this mountain, which arguably could be a pyramid.
[01:02:13]  Yeah.
[01:02:15]  He asked the NASA guy, he's like, anything, first of all, he's like, how deep is that crater by the shadow?
[01:02:23]  And he says, about 3,000 feet.
[01:02:25]  Oh, right.
[01:02:26]  You can see the shadow of that.
[01:02:27]  Yep.
[01:02:27]  And so by measuring that 3,000 feet and now looking at the shadow, which goes off page, by the way, of this other pyramid, which is like, could measure like up to two inches, you have to assume this is a massive structure.
[01:02:42]  He even asked, he's like, how big is that?
[01:02:44]  And the guy goes, really big.
[01:02:46]  And then Joe, I keep saying Ed, I get mixed up.
[01:02:50]  Joe says, That's an impact crater.
[01:02:56]  Anything that would have impacted that would have destroyed any structure beside it.
[01:03:02]  True.
[01:03:02]  Yeah.
[01:03:03]  And so he goes, What is it?
[01:03:05]  And the guy at NASA goes, It must have grown.
[01:03:10]  And that was his answer.
[01:03:12]  Built.
[01:03:13]  Yeah.
[01:03:13]  Yeah.
[01:03:14]  And then obviously the faces of Mars.
[01:03:17]  Where's that one?
[01:03:18]  Is that the one?
[01:03:19]  That's this one here.
[01:03:21]  Yeah, the top here.
[01:03:21]  Yeah.
[01:03:22]  Yeah, you got that mask looking thing with the shadow across it.
[01:03:25]  So, really, really cool stuff.
[01:03:27]  Here, by the way, is he was.
[01:03:30]  So, I was shown the photograph of an individual and told that he's currently working on a technical site somewhere in the continental United States.
[01:03:37]  I was asked to describe what he was working on.
[01:03:39]  So, this is subsequent to visualizing the agent's location.
[01:03:43]  And now they're like, well, what is the agent working on?
[01:03:46]  And this is, I mean, have a look at it for yourself, dude.
[01:03:50]  Yeah, it's wild.
[01:03:51]  Yeah.
[01:03:52]  I remember looking at this and being.
[01:03:55]  One of the things about Joe is he's an artist.
[01:03:58]  Oh, that's true.
[01:03:59]  Yeah.
[01:03:59]  So his sketches are so detailed.
[01:04:02]  Like they make our sketches look like.
[01:04:04]  Yeah, like we're children.
[01:04:05]  Like we have mental.
[01:04:06]  Yeah, absolutely.

=== Eighty Percent Accurate Sketches (03:40) ===

[01:04:07]  100%.
[01:04:08]  But I just like, how do you come?
[01:04:10]  I don't know how you get to a place where you can draw such specifics.
[01:04:14]  And like you said, don't scribble anything out.
[01:04:16]  And there's no question mark maybe.
[01:04:18]  No, no racing.
[01:04:19]  It's just first go.
[01:04:20]  And if you look at some of the things he has here, like he has this beam going out and he says a wavefront emitter.
[01:04:28]  Literally, a beam with a wavefront emitter sensitive to more specific elements of wavefront effects and then measurements, shock waves.
[01:04:41]  It measures shock waves, velocities, heat, and that type of thing.
[01:04:46]  So, it's this big cone that is like an emitter and it's made to measure things.
[01:04:52]  And that's exactly what it was.
[01:04:54]  Yeah, it's wild.
[01:04:55]  It's exactly what it was.
[01:04:56]  Here's some kind of gun.
[01:04:58]  Yeah.
[01:04:58]  And this is what it is.
[01:05:00]  I mean, come on, man.
[01:05:01]  But I haven't, out of all the remote viewing stuff I've read and seen, I've never seen anything like his.
[01:05:07]  Yeah.
[01:05:08]  So I think he is a special case.
[01:05:11]  I do.
[01:05:11]  Like you said, there's like four or five of them there, like this, that are at this level.
[01:05:15]  Yeah.
[01:05:16]  But I don't think that that means that nobody else can do it.
[01:05:20]  I think we all.
[01:05:20]  That's true.
[01:05:21]  Because what did he say?
[01:05:21]  He said he's like right 80% of the time.
[01:05:24]  Is that what he said?
[01:05:26]  Yeah, 80% accurate.
[01:05:27]  And I think what he meant by that was 80%, like when he's right.
[01:05:31]  Uh huh.
[01:05:31]  He's 80% accurate.
[01:05:33]  His information is like 80% there.
[01:05:35]  Yeah.
[01:05:36]  But what Ed May said, the chief scientist, he said that because he showed me two sessions one from Joe and one from a lady, I want to say her last name is Ford.
[01:05:50]  I don't remember her first name.
[01:05:51]  Nancy Ford?
[01:05:52]  Nancy Ford.
[01:05:52]  Yeah.
[01:05:53]  She was extremely gifted as well.
[01:05:56]  And showed me one of their most memorable sessions each, and they were just crazy.
[01:06:01]  They had Joe.
[01:06:04]  Sort of what they do is really interesting.
[01:06:06]  They put, they cut these ping pong balls in half, put them on your eyes, and shine a bright red light.
[01:06:13]  Oh, yes, I've heard about this.
[01:06:15]  Yeah.
[01:06:15]  And static in your ears, like a low kind of static.
[01:06:19]  What's the name of this?
[01:06:21]  There's an effect, right?
[01:06:22]  Yeah, I don't know what the name of it is, but I know that what he said is that eventually you just see black and you don't hear the sound because our brains are wired to detect change.
[01:06:34]  And so, when something is sort of because there's humming and buzzing all around us all the time, we kind of tune it out.
[01:06:40]  Same with your vision and same with like touch and every other sense.
[01:06:43]  If there's no change and it's sort of consistent, you just get used to it.
[01:06:47]  Once you hit that state, that's when you're kind of in between.
[01:06:52]  So, he would tell Joe.
[01:06:55]  In between what?
[01:06:56]  In between awake and asleep.
[01:06:58]  Yeah.
[01:06:58]  Okay.
[01:06:59]  Yeah.
[01:07:00]  He would tell Joe look to your left and right shoulder like this.
[01:07:03]  And they would be measuring his brain activity and his brain activity, it would show that he's doing this, but in reality, he's doing this, right?
[01:07:13]  Yeah, um, and so he's like, All right, got it, you know, he's doing this.
[01:07:17]  And they said, Uh, Joe, we want you to get out of your body, uh, go into the next room, in the next room, and put an envelope on the wall.
[01:07:25]  I want you to open that envelope, look in the envelope, and uh, just draw what you see.
[01:07:29]  He's like, All right, and uh, he goes, You know, for the life of me, I can't find the envelope, it's like, so instead.
[01:07:37]  Kind of like Dorothy, click my heels, and I want to be where the photographer was when he took this photo.
[01:07:43]  And he ends up doing that and describing an image.

=== One for One in the Rockies (03:09) ===

[01:07:47]  And it is one for one.
[01:07:49]  It is this field.
[01:07:51]  He even writes the Rockies, which it was in a little barn or a house, a path, trees, mountains in the back.
[01:08:00]  And it was like one for one.
[01:08:02]  Wow.
[01:08:02]  Yeah.
[01:08:03]  So it was the Rockies?
[01:08:04]  Yep.
[01:08:04]  Oh, okay.
[01:08:05]  Yeah.
[01:08:05]  He said Rockies are Alps.
[01:08:06]  Okay.
[01:08:06]  But it was the Rockies.
[01:08:07]  You know, so.
[01:08:10]  So, through a different method, but seeing this, but you know, just again, seeing that.
[01:08:15]  And then I was like, how many of these sessions are this accurate with these specific people?
[01:08:22]  And he said 20%.
[01:08:24]  Interesting.
[01:08:25]  Which is insane when you think about it.
[01:08:27]  Yeah.
[01:08:28]  One in five?
[01:08:28]  Yeah.
[01:08:29]  Well, without that amount of accuracy.
[01:08:31]  Five and 20, that it's a dead on match is worthy of looking into.
[01:08:37]  For sure.
[01:08:37]  Because, again, the p value of that must be insane.
[01:08:41]  You know, we could have drawn anything.
[01:08:43]  Yeah.
[01:08:44]  And he was that accurate.
[01:08:45]  And again, it wasn't like he didn't draw a big barn, a couple of trees around and mountains in the background.
[01:08:50]  It was literally to scale.
[01:08:52]  You know, when they're right, they're right.
[01:08:55]  Yeah.
[01:08:55]  They're like dead on.
[01:08:58]  Crazy.
[01:08:59]  Really, really intriguing stuff for sure.
[01:09:03]  I do want to.
[01:09:05]  I don't know.
[01:09:07]  All right.
[01:09:09]  We still got a bit more time.
[01:09:10]  Okay.
[01:09:11]  What we're going to do is I do want to save a story for the Patreon.
[01:09:18]  Yeah.
[01:09:19]  Yeah.
[01:09:19]  I know the story.
[01:09:20]  You know the story I'm talking about?
[01:09:21]  Yeah, for sure.
[01:09:21]  All right.
[01:09:21]  We can get into that.
[01:09:22]  It involves juicy.
[01:09:23]  It involves aliens and it involves UFOs and it has to do with remote viewing.
[01:09:28]  And we can talk about all that stuff in the Patreon.
[01:09:30]  But I think we're going to call it here for our first episode of Debriefed.
[01:09:36]  Dude, so honored to have you on.
[01:09:38]  Honored to be a part of this journey with you.
[01:09:39]  That was an awesome.
[01:09:40]  I'm so glad that I was on the Bob and mentioned remote viewing almost as a joke in passing because I thought you'd be interested, but I didn't realize it would lead to this rabbit hole.
[01:09:50]  Yeah.
[01:09:50]  And I think we're not done with this.
[01:09:53]  No, it's an ongoing quest.
[01:09:54]  I think we're at a high and we're still trying to explore.
[01:09:58]  Yeah.
[01:09:59]  Definitely check out his video that he's got coming up or it's out already about remote viewing and his experience and everything.
[01:10:06]  I look forward to seeing it and hearing your thoughts as someone who's.
[01:10:10]  You know, studied physics, who's just, you know, grounded.
[01:10:13]  It's just, I'm extremely skeptical of everything.
[01:10:16]  I'll let you know.
[01:10:17]  So, I don't have time to mention that at the end of the podcast.
[01:10:19]  Yeah, right.
[01:10:20]  I should have started with that.
[01:10:22]  I mean, I think they assume that, you know, they're not here if they're skeptical.
[01:10:28]  Put it that way.
[01:10:28]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:10:31]  You know, yeah.
[01:10:31]  But, anyways, thanks for having me on the show.
[01:10:32]  Thanks for being here, Nelson.
[01:10:34]  Guys, don't forget to subscribe.
[01:10:35]  Check out our Patreon.
[01:10:36]  The Patreon, you know, I'm putting a lot of stuff out there.
[01:10:40]  I've got already, I think, In the moment, probably a dozen videos.
[01:10:43]  And you get access to the secret Discord as well, where we talk all about these things and share, you know, inside information, behind the scenes stuff.
[01:10:51]  So I do appreciate you guys hanging out, and we'll see you on the next debrief.
[01:10:57]  Peace.