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Aug. 21, 1996 - Bill Cooper
01:00:45
Conference 3rd Day – M. Moore
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Time Text
...
I'm Pooh.
You're listening to the Art of Time.
I'm Pooh.
And I'm William Cooper.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for
which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Wow.
It's our giggle marathon.
Okay guys.
Let me have my mic back.
Okay, folks.
That was the Pledge Girls.
The original Pledge Girls.
Ah, welcome once again to the Hour of the Times.
Broadcasting to you from Wichita, Kansas in the Ramada Inn near the airport.
Having a great time.
Right next to the zoo.
Sedgwick County.
That's right.
How'd you know?
Sedgwick County.
Tonight we've got a guest that's going to, uh, I don't know.
We'll find out, but anybody that wants an 8x10 color glossy photograph, With her signature, please write to Hermione in Wichita,
Kansas.
THE END I'm sitting in the sea, I'm a little sort of a...
I'm sitting in the sea, I'm a little sort of a...
Stop this.
There is smoke tonight.
She said, I'm tired of the war.
I want the kind of work I had before, like with a wedding.
Something wise to wear upon this world that I found I found a way to live without a care
I found a way to live without a care I found a way to live without a care
Well I'm glad that you talked this way You see, I've watched you ridin' almost every single day.
And there's somethin' in me that just yearns to win.
Such a girl is cold and such a girl is lonesome.
Carolyn.
Carolyn, yes.
Ladies and gentlemen, lonesome?
I don't think so.
What do you think?
What do you think?
Lonesome?
No, not at all.
Not at all.
Our guest tonight, folks, is Michelle Moore, who until today was the station chief of Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, and Arkansas, was relieved today of all of her duties, and a new station chief has been appointed, who will remain nameless, faceless, shoeless, Moneyless, but with a lot of work.
Michelle has been talking all day long and has been, well, why don't we start off with some of the holes that you filled up with the investigation of the Oklahoma City bombing that we've done, and then we'll move into To the banking scandal in downtown Wichita, Kansas, which we heard from all those businessmen that flowed through the hotel today.
By the way, folks, tomorrow we're going to be in another location because this is sort of a rotating, around-the-country conference.
You get as many people that want to come, as much opportunity as possible.
But we don't move too far.
Uh, tomorrow we'll be in Kansas City, Missouri, which is, you know, just right across the river from, uh, Wichita.
You know, down the road to Kansas City and then right across the river.
So, uh, we, uh, we're playing around the Yellow Brick Road today.
You know, that's the one you drove in on?
It's the one I drove on.
Yeah.
Used to be brick, you know.
Used to be a real brick road.
They painted it yellow during the Depression.
Were you aware of that?
No.
Did you notice all those abandoned farmhouses along the way?
Hello, are you here?
Earth to Bill, come in.
Earth to Bill, come in.
We're having a great time.
I don't have a clue what you're talking about.
Well, if you don't say something, I'm going to bring beer up here.
Well, let's talk about a few things.
For instance, today you filled us in on the chain of events that led from the initial reports, which were anonymous, of the cans of fulminated mercury that were discovered in the Alfred P. Murrow Federal Building during the 2nd, 3rd, and who knows how many, well we do know, but how many bomb scares where they moved all the rescue workers and everybody back from the building.
And it took us a while knowing that we had had these reports anonymously, and we felt
that they were solid reports, but an anonymous report is really nothing that you can work
on, so we had to verify it.
So why don't you take it from there and just talk about where that led and how long it
took to really get any real leads.
Okay, well there were three bomb threats on the day of the Oklahoma City bombing.
And on the 20th of April of 95, you received three anonymous, no, I don't know when you received the calls, but you made the announcement that you had received three anonymous phone calls reporting multiple canisters of fulminated mercury with mil-spec numbers on them and detonators attached and so forth and so on near the elevator shafts on different floors of the building.
And two of them were reportedly firefighter rescue types, and one of them said he was the father of one of the firefighters.
And I couldn't really use that information because they called you, they didn't call me, so it was second-hand information to me, and there was no way I could do a double-check or a confirmation of the story.
So it sat on the back burner, like most anonymous reports do, until we can acquire Independent confirmation.
What we were talking about in the lecture today was that confirmation of anything needs to be comprised of at least three independent, unrelated sources telling the identical same story.
And here we had these three anonymous reports, but because they were anonymous and secondhand to me, I couldn't use them as confirmation of each other.
So we sort of sat on that thing for a long time and just waited.
And then in the May 95 issue of Relevance Magazine, Public Information Officer Bill, I just went brain dead on his last name, Martin, Bill Martin, gave an interview in which he reported that he knew of the reports of the fulminative mercury and he didn't really have a problem with them because he knew this was part of the BATF's training stuff.
But he knew that they were there.
And when I interviewed him, he denied the story, conveniently forgot the name of the magazine to whom he ran the interview.
And then we found out that Chief Gonzales had ordered something of a gag order and no one in the police department was to talk about any controversial issues having to do with the bombing because they felt it would hurt the prosecution's case.
And then along came an eyewitness, a nurse who had been on the scene all day long doing rescue and counting bodies and so forth.
And she reported and described to us these same canisters with the additional detail that there was a timer attached set to blow 10 minutes after the first explosion occurred at a time when the building would be Full of rescuers and injured and so forth.
And then just this past week, we finally came up with the names of two gentlemen in public service, a branch of public service, who have first-hand knowledge of it and are finally willing to go public.
So it took 16 months.
To confirm that one fact that started out as anonymous reports from concerned and freedom-loving civil servants to you.
And now that we've got it, we can run with it.
Okay.
What is the first thing that comes to your mind that is significant about this?
Yes.
Well, it's an intensely regulated substance used by the military.
And not only that, but it's just more proof that we were lied to in the beginning.
They said that nothing else was found.
Well, that's crap.
You know that.
Well, I mean, yeah.
There was plenty of other stuff found.
She's tired of talking.
She's been talking all day.
I don't know what I'm going to do to get this in.
It's just one more piece of the evidence of the betrayal, where the people out there who haven't followed the investigation that the intelligence service has done in this bombing really don't have a clue what's going on, and they have had a lot of different ideas thrown at them, and if they hold water, well, we document them, and they stick, and if they don't, well, then they've just got to go the way of all flesh, but the full mat of mercury has panned out.
And virtually every other explanation has just sort of turned out to be junk.
And the only reason that it turns out to be junk and yet people still report it is because they do not know how to conduct an investigation and they don't want to do their homework and they're just lazy.
Now that brings us to another subject.
There's an awful lot of people involved in trying to find out what really happened in Oklahoma City on that day.
Yeah.
And afterwards, quite a bit afterwards.
We've also turned up some absolute positive confirmation that the piece of videotape which we announced to the world showed Gary Hunt there, couldn't have been more than 25 minutes after the explosion, with another man, both of them holding some kind of transmitter with antennas in their hand, and he positively identified Gary Hunt from that piece of videotape.
And the world went ballistic and a lot of these other independent investigators went ballistic trying to negate what we had discovered and take the heat off Gary Hunt.
Supposedly, there shouldn't have been any interest for them to do that.
We're not going to get into who these people are or anything like that.
Talk about some of the evidence that we have found and the identifications that we've been able to make that absolutely pin Gary Hunt to being in Oklahoma City, not only that day, but for the whole week prior to the bombing.
Well, we started out with comparative photos of Gary Hunt from other photographs that were taken of him.
Then there was the KFOR videotape in which he appears, and we showed that to the conference members today.
We looked at it, I don't know, what, 20 times or 30 times?
And the initial confirmation of Gary Hunt's presence, of course, was based on the comparison of known photographs of him and the body measurement proportion comparison analysis that was done from the KFOR to the known photographs.
And now we have four eyewitnesses who will swear that he was staying for the week prior to the bombing at the Grand Continental Hotel, and McVeigh was there, and another gentleman, possibly John Doe too, but I am not clear on that yet.
And of course there's hotel receipts and grocery store attendants and liquor store cashiers
and the people in the general vicinity who have identified him positively from photographs
and have not identified the photographs of the alleged hunt look-alikes.
They've always picked the hunt photo.
And we consider this, all of this body of evidence that we have to be conclusive.
It's enough to send anybody to the electric chair in a murder case in a court of law.
In fact, it's beyond that.
There is no doubt whatsoever that Gary Hunt was in Oklahoma City for one week prior to the bombing, that he is the man in that videotape holding a transmitter of some sort with an antenna on it, and he looks startled as he turns the corner and walks right into a video camera and hastily gets himself out of the way.
Well, we talked about, too.
The persons that certain other investigators would like us to believe that this man is or these two men are in the video Would have just come out of their own building.
It's just been blown to smithereens.
People are screaming and dying and blood and guts and fire everywhere.
And these guys come around the building, you know, like they're going on a Sunday afternoon stroll.
They aren't the least bit upset or concerned other than, of course, seeing the camera.
But they're just sort of lollygagging along.
They're not in any particular kind of a hurry.
And it's extremely wrong behavior.
Psychologically, after what had just occurred, and we know it to be within 20-25 minutes of the explosion because of the amount of smoke in the air from the fires that were put out and the burning cars in the General Record Building parking lot when that fire was finally, you know, doused enough that it wasn't black smoke anymore and was decreasing.
And what else have we discovered?
Oh, I don't know.
Any more loose ends that we can tie up here?
Just off the top of our heads.
We're sharing one microphone, ladies and gentlemen.
She's tired.
She doesn't want to talk, and it doesn't help that I eat Mediterranean garlic shrimp for dinner tonight.
No, I just keep going brain dead.
It was like, you know, six hours ago, and I don't remember what I said six hours ago.
What else did we talk about?
Oh, yeah, the crater.
The crater.
Right.
We looked at and did a little bit of analysis on the... You get a gold star.
Thank you.
Inside the perimeter.
Crater photographs which have not really been seen for what they are.
Now General Parton used a portion of that photograph in his initial bombing analysis report and it has a little sign that says crater by it but it's been cropped to where you don't see the really important critical piece of evidence in that photograph which is a 14 inch high 5 gallon bucket sitting by the side of the crater and with this We're able to accurately calculate the actual diameter of the crater and make a pretty good estimate of the depth.
Now, let me say this about that.
There's a lot of people out there that say, how can you look at a photograph and tell that's a 14 inch high bucket?
Who are you trying to fool?
This is a bunch of crap.
I'm done!
I'm done!
It's gotta be, you know, an eighth of an inch if it's anything.
What's going on here?
Well, I've got a 5-gallon bucket just like the guys used down there to haul the debris away, and it's 14 inches tall.
You mean they're all the same size?
They're all the same size.
Oh my goodness.
Standard 5-gallon, 14-inch high, you know, pickle bucket.
Why, that's evidence.
It is.
Alright.
Continue.
Well, you can measure the diameter of the crater from several different places, because it's not exactly a symmetrical, circular crater.
Um, but depending on how you place your ruler and from what point to what point, uh, the crater could not exceed 23 feet maximum.
And that's being really generous.
And it looks to me more like in the neighborhood of 18.
And we have a real problem with an 18 foot crater in that the cargo carrier truck that was supposed to have the info stuff in it was, I believe, a 20 or 22 foot cargo truck, which would have Well, if it had all the fertilizer in it that we've since determined wasn't ammonium nitrate at all, it was really bullshit.
Well, there is that.
And this bullshit doesn't leave much of a crater.
And if it really had the amount of ammonium nitrate that they say that it did, soaked in diesel fuel or mixed in barrels or however it was, that much ammonium nitrate, according to explosives experts, is not a high explosive, but a... It's a low explosive used for ditching and cratering.
That's right.
We need a pushing and a shoving motion.
See we got a real problem with the size of the crater and the ANFO because they want the ANFO bomb to be big enough to do the asymmetric damage to the building and to take out all the columns way down on the west end.
But not big enough to make a big crater like it's really supposed to do.
Right, and yet if they want to try to mix it with nitromethane or hydrazine to make it more powerful to maybe do the damage, then they're going to have to have a gigantic crater that goes all the way down into the concourse and it's just not that deep.
It just didn't happen the way they said it did.
No, as a matter of fact, it's a very shallow crater.
You can look at that crater and there's several different ways to measure it.
And if you really want to be generous, you can get up to maybe 20, 21 feet, somewhere around there.
But if you, if you really are legitimate with your measuring, it's, it's about 18 feet at the widest portion and approximately four, maybe four and a half feet deep.
That sounds about right to me.
There are human beings in the photograph standing right on the edge of the crater.
And if we take a short average measurement, say for an average man 5 foot 10 inches tall, the man on the edge of the crater standing in the bottom of the crater probably would be what, shoulder height, something like that, maximum.
I don't even think it would be that much, that high.
I really don't.
It's difficult to tell.
I find it difficult to tell.
The significant thing to me is that the crater isn't a big enough diameter for a truck that huge.
The truck had to have blown a crater bigger than the truck.
The truck itself, according to the testimony of the officials, was completely destroyed.
And what was the biggest piece they found?
Yeah, that's real odd, too, because I'm getting mixed reports on that, where you have leaks, okay, leaks, there are no leaks, but we got leaks coming out of the prosecution, and the feds saying that they've got enough pieces to reconstruct the vehicle in the courtroom, and I'm going like, right, right, this is gonna happen.
Super glue and masking tape, maybe.
So it's just a bunch of junk.
I'm not even sure at this moment that there really was a Ryder truck, if you want to know the truth, that blew up anything.
I'm not either.
Also, because we have witnesses who were out there, I mean like one minute before the explosion occurred, and they said there were no trucks of any kind parked in front of that building.
Right.
Only automobiles.
Right, and we obviously have Ryder trucks in the area.
We know we've got two Ryder trucks in the area at opposite ends of downtown at about the same time of the morning.
But whether or not any of them actually pulled up in front of the Murrah building and did the dirty deed, I don't think that's how it happened.
I can't find any witnesses to put it there, and Stephen Jones says that the truck and his client are not in any of the surveillance videotapes.
But we don't know about that either, because nobody's being allowed to see them.
This has been a long day.
This is a long hour already, and it's not even down to the halfway point.
Also we discovered a discrepancy in the location of the crater in relationship to the building, which is significant.
There have been implications made by the discredited propaganda press that a location of the crater near where we now find it to be would somehow discredit General Parton's report And the truth of the matter is, it makes his report all the more devastating.
Would you like to discuss the real location of the crater and what that means in relationship to the report given to the media and given to us, which we broke as a scoop for the world on this broadcast?
Yeah, we did.
When Gerald Parton prepared his initial report in, I guess it was May of 95, then he did a revised version in June, and then there was a final version released in, I think July 30th of 95.
He used the best information available to him at the time, and it was very difficult because he was working with photographs, he was working with testamentary evidence, and the building had been imploded, and you just couldn't tell where Dittler's spot was.
So he placed the crater as best he could with the best information available, and did his calculations of pounds per square inch from the explosion.
Based on the location of the crater, which was between A4 and A5.
Who was I talking to about that earlier?
Between A4 and 5, right?
But that's where he originally put it, was between 4 and 5.
Right.
And then, earlier this year, William Jasper of the New American Magazine came across some information that led him to believe that Unnamed parties were trying to somehow move the crater to another place closer to the giant scooped out asymmetrical part of the damage to the building.
And then he was trying to say that it didn't happen that way.
Well, we investigated it very, very closely, spent a long time looking at that and taking measurements and drawing lines and placing the actual crater where it actually was and using the AP overhead laser photos and so forth.
And the actual placement of the Dinky Tiny Crater was 8 feet off.
The actual crater was located between A3 and A4, so it is 8 feet to the east of where General Parton placed it.
Those of you who have copies of his report at home, you can look at it and you'll see what I'm talking about.
Move the crater 8 feet to your left or to the east.
And yes, that moves the source of the explosion closer to the big gouged out part of the building.
But what makes it so much such a stronger case for Parton having internal explosions on the columns is that it moves the truck farther away from A8 and A9 and these other columns that went down on the west end.
And you move them that much farther away, and there's virtually no pounds per square inch to take anything down at that end of the building.
And even where it was, it was impossible that the explosion could have taken those steel-reinforced concrete pillars down.
And now, there's no question whatsoever.
Right.
It's really impossible now.
So this actually strengthens General Partin's report.
It makes him the most credible explosives expert who has commented and investigated and Well, the FBI is trying to use this little discrepancy to discredit his report by saying that by moving the explosion closer to the cutout portion, it makes it all the more likely that the lone truck bomb did the big scooped out part of the explosion, but it just couldn't happen that way because there was a whole bunch more of the building that came down as well as that scooped out part.
Uh, the Feds, they're a mess.
They don't know what they're doing.
Uh, I can't take it anymore.
Radio, Mr. Mike Gavins calling Mr. Larry Bones.
Uh, do you want 6619713, 4284955, 6618810, or 4792240 operator?
Operator?
6618810.
Yes.
Operator?
Yes.
Operator?
Yes.
Operator?
Yes.
Operator?
Yes.
Operator?
Yes.
Operator?
Yes.
Operator?
Yes.
8-1-2?
Right.
That'd be 8-1-2-6-6-1-8-8-1-0, area code 5-1-3, is that correct?
Right.
This call coming from area code 6-1-5?
Yes, it is.
That would be Nashville, Tennessee, is that right?
Right.
Okay, so we're talking, let's see, 6-1-5, that's into 5-1-3, which is 6-9-8, area 6-6-1-8-8-1-0.
What number by any chance, 3-2-7-3-7-6-8?
3-2-7, 3-9-1-8.
3-9-1-8, is that extension 406, 6-0-9, 3-0-2, or 2-0-4 operator?
3918, is that extension 406, 609, 302 or 204 operator?
3-0-2.
302.
302, 302, this is extension 801, you want 6618810 area code 513 extension 802, or did you want 6618810 area code 513
extension 280?
Hell, I don't know.
Can I ask the gentleman what he wants?
We have four extensions.
We want a Mr. Mike Gavin.
Mr. Mike Gavin?
That's right.
Do you know what extension he's at?
Extension?
I believe Mr. Gavin's extension is 406.
Our last week was 527, then 204 and 429.
429 was disconnected last week, which would give us 204.
The 429 was disconnected last week, which would give us 204.
Can you hold on just a second?
All right, thanks.
Okay.
402, Shipping.
Go ahead, Mr. Mike Gavin, please.
Mike Gavin, I've got a wrong extension.
591 or 268.
This is 402.
Last week we were 509, which was disconnected.
Last week we were 509 which was disconnected.
Do you want 661, 881, 05, 02 or 409 operator?
Hold it Mr. Mike Gavin.
We weren't talking, Mr. Mike Gavin.
Gavin, Mike Gavin, yes.
Well, this is the right number, but there are several different extensions.
But, oh, now, if you want 409, 405, 406, or 208, Mr. Gavin can be reached at one of those connections.
Operator, I think I'll call back later.
Thank you, sir.
Okay.
Thank you, operator.
Operator, do you hear me?
Hello, this is Mike Gavin.
Mike Gavin?
Aw, rats.
Nobody on the line.
Ladies and gentlemen, you're listening to the Hour of the Time, brought to you by Swiss America Trading.
We are coming to you from beautiful Wichita, Kansas.
Tomorrow, we'll be in Kansas City, Missouri.
I think.
Everybody ready to caravan?
Good job!
Okay.
Move them out.
Move them out.
What was I talking about?
CIS America Trading.
Oh yeah.
Frank is back from vacation.
I just talked to him the other day.
And if you haven't called in and talked to Frank about getting your hands on some real money, I suggest that you do so.
You know, it's amazing how many people here at this conference have real money.
Somebody came up to me and wanted to I want to buy something that Annie's got over there on her table and asked me how many silver dollars I wanted for it.
I forget what I said.
I don't even know if he bought it.
Anyway, it's an indication that the people here understand what real money is and what it's all about and are using it.
You'd be amazed at how many people I run into who deal only in silver coin and occasionally in gold coin.
You'd also be amazed at how good a deal you can get when you walk in somewhere and offer somebody gold or silver.
You know, if everybody would start trading in gold and silver coin again and just cut out the robbery system that they call the Federal Reserve, guess, just guess how quick we could have this country back in the proper ownership of the American people.
out of the debt-creating money system.
It's based simply on the fact that if you need money, you have to borrow it.
Most Americans don't understand that our money is put into circulation by borrowing.
If there were no money tomorrow, you can create all you want just by going in and borrowing.
It starts as a bookkeeping entry, and it's put into circulation by electronic transfer, checks, things like that.
It doesn't really exist, and if everybody went to the bank tomorrow to draw out the cash that they have deposited in their bank, they would find out that it does not exist.
Not only does it not exist on a scale of everybody withdrawing, But if only half the people in this country, 50%, went to the bank to draw out the money that they believe they have on deposit, it doesn't exist either.
In fact, I'm going to go one step further.
If only 25% of the people in this country went to their bank and said, I want to close my account and I want it all in cash, the system would collapse.
Because the cash does not exist.
Think about it.
How could it exist?
How much do we owe?
And if we owe that much, where did it come from if no cash was ever loaned?
How many of you have ever thought of that?
Well, I've got to tell you.
I'm not making this up as I go along, however it's tempting.
Because I'm tired.
But you can call Swiss America Trading and talk to those people tomorrow when they're in the office.
And you can ask pointed questions about how the system works, how money is put into circulation.
Ask for the newsletter.
Tell them that you're thankful that they sponsor the Hour of the Time.
And while you're at it, explore the possibilities of getting your hands on some real money.
And then look around in your community and explore the possibilities of beginning to use it again.
1-800-289-8000.
1-800-289-2646 is the number.
1-800-289-2646.
Is that right?
Yes, it is.
1-800-289-2646.
Every day, every night, we are up in the morning and go past midnight.
Everybody's tired, including me.
And we've got to do it all again in the morning.
Actually, I slept a little late this morning.
One hour.
One hour.
It was heaven.
The other day my little girl climbed on my lap and looked into my eyes and said,
Daddy, what's America?
Yeah.
Well, you know, that's not the kind of a question you can answer immediately.
But after some thought, My mind raced back to a hot August day in 1943 when I stood on the deck of an American submarine somewhere in the South China Sea.
And I wondered then if I'd ever be lucky enough to set foot again on this hallowed ground that we call America.
I immediately envisioned the Golden Gate Bridge shrouded by an early morning mist.
The seemingly endless wheat fields of the great Midwest, and the towering majesty of the Washington Monument.
And then, I welled up with tears, as I recalled some of the famous Americans, and the great things they gave to mankind.
Who could ever forget the heartbreak of psoriasis?
And Dr. Scholl, who gave us the odor eaters, And what about Colonel Sanders, who lets us choose between the regular or the crispy?
And Mr. Whipple, who keeps us from squeezing the sharpness?
And Handy Wipes and Denture Cream and Wring Around the Cover?
And Earl Shive, who paints any car for $39.95, including the chrome!
We've got it, brother!
We've got it, hand in hand!
We've got it, sister!
Sure.
This love we build and plant, deep in two hundred years, of black bread and tears,
tender and warm, we breathe.
Warriors of America's proud, Warriors of America's proud.
Sure, America's wonderful, but let me tell you something right now.
We didn't get that way without a lot of guts and love and determination and hard work by a lot of great people.
People like Mr. Coffey, Tony Orlando, the Frito Bandito, Johnny Bench, the Fonz, Charlie Toon Hoops, the Avonlees, Mrs. Olsen, and don't forget, the Tidy Bowl Man, Tony the Tiger, Ronald McDonald, what about Ralph Nader, the Johnny Green Giant, and don't you ever forget, the man from GLAAD.
Thanks to these great Americans.
Well, I gotta tell you, it never stopped me from squeezing the show.
Michelle, you spent the rest of the day teaching all these people how to conduct a proper investigation, a type of mind frame, you know, what, what, what you, what?
Well, we started, uh, By going over the ABCDEFG Principles of Investigation and Research.
Which is a seven step.
Are we still on?
Yeah.
Okay.
She just left the mic.
I don't believe it.
I don't want to go brain dead in the middle of this.
Go ahead.
It's a seven step procedural.
Don't mind me.
Don't mind you.
You've got to be kidding.
I'm ordering pizza.
seven step procedural method that if you follow and if you do all the different steps you
will have accomplished a piece of research that will have a higher degree of quality,
accuracy and detail.
And A stands for attention to detail, B stands for balanced perspective, C stands for confirm
D stands for double check and decide.
E stands for examine your options.
S stands for formulate your strategy.
And G is go for it.
And we spent a couple of hours going into great detail of what each one of these means, how it's applied, and what the implications are of doing it.
And we also did exercises where they got to practice them.
It was really very beneficial.
All right.
Are we still on?
Okay.
I just want to make sure.
Brett says we're still on.
Should we continue this or sign off and go to bed?
Okay.
An extra hour on the satellite free tonight?
All right.
Okay.
We got it.
Bye.
You get that?
Extra hour free tonight on the satellite if you keep talking.
Don't forget, I had to promise him that you'd send him an 8x10 color glossy photograph signed.
I'm serious, he asked me that.
I promised him before we went on the air.
Gary, Bill is not well.
We'll just have to leave it at that.
Well, we did a lot of really practical things today and did some exercises.
And rather than just speaking theoretically about the how to conduct the investigation, we went into some details of what they could do and gave them projects to do.
And we have kind of a mixed group here.
We have people who were here last year and people who have never been to a conference before.
And so you can't just pick up where we left off last year or your new folks are kind of lost.
So we tried to find a middle ground where we covered the same basic principles but in a more methodical and practical application manner.
So it was more immediately useful.
Can you sort of give us?
No.
This is the hardest broadcast I've ever done.
No Bill, I really can't.
I really can't.
These are all the notes I've got.
Well, let's start with your childhood.
I was going to ask you if you knew any good Clinton jokes.
No, we're not going to start with my show then.
Clinton is already mad at me and he's writing memos to Rush Limbaugh who didn't read them on the air and, you know, increases my fame and unfortunately the fortune doesn't follow.
Well, you know what was really interesting today when we were going through, what were we talking about?
Confirm and conclude.
And, uh, we went through, uh, that one moment on April the 21st, which was the Friday after the bombing, the day that, uh, all of a sudden the militias were responsible for every evil that happened to mankind since the Earth's crust cools.
Cut!
Beep!
And, uh, we had, uh, the, uh, news anchor of KTOK Radio sort of vamping along, waiting for the satellite feed, uh, from John Belmont and ABC News to start the Decker, Michigan raid news report.
And he was just spilling in the time, waiting for that satellite feed to start, and out of the clear blue, and we just, of course, always happen to have tape rolling, always have tape rolling, he just happened to tell us this wonderful story about how there was bad blood between the FBI and the CIA, because one organization was supposed to have known a little bit about the bombing before the bombing happened, and the other group didn't know, and they're PO'd at each other.
And when I told you about that, Report when I initially heard it you said well to get a follow-up so I had David do the interview with Gary Bonin, Gary Bonin I mean and What are you doing?
You're not paying attention.
He's your husband.
I'm not taking him home.
I'm just whispering in his ear that all is okay.
Oh God you guys In radio land, you just don't know what today's been like.
It's been really wild.
Well, anyway, we followed up with Jerry Bonin and learned an awful lot more.
And because of this one little piece of attempted confirmation, the intelligence service was aware within 51 hours after the bombing, that we were working with multiple McBays and with foreign knowledge on the part of the feds.
And that those were two subjects that nobody would touch for months and months and months.
And we tried to tell everybody and we began to get information that confirmed those confirmations.
And a lot of the independent investigators in this town laughed me off the planet because
that then they came up with their confirmation to confirm mine.
And now they're still angry at me about it.
Because they weren't first.
I think everybody around here is going to be pretty angry when your book hits the streets.
I can't help that.
It puts all of the people who are spinning around in cul-de-sacs back on the straight road where they don't want to be.
No, they don't want to be there.
You know, it's just too bad if they don't like it, Bill.
We documented everything and that's just kind of the way it was and it's not my responsibility.
They can't dig it.
It's what happened.
It's what the evidence shows and folks can read the book and put it together and look at the documentation and all of the stuff that's there and come to their own conclusion about it.
But what they're going to come up with every single time is that the feds are pulling a big deception and what they've been told happened is not what happened at all.
That's correct.
That it's not what happened at all.
Right.
So what happened? Hello?
Hello?
What's the guy's name?
Well, see this building blew up.
Well, what do we know for absolute sure?
We know for absolute sure that there was foreknowledge on the part of the FBI that the FBI called in a warning of a potential mass casualty incident on the Friday before the bombing and that information was confirmed by Assistant Chief Gaines, Dispatcher Purser, Harvey Weathers, and they are Fighting, being subpoenaed in the civil case that's being brought up, but they're getting upset.
They don't want to lie for anybody.
The amount of information confirming foreknowledge on the part of the feds is staggering.
There is so much of it.
So we've got feds with foreknowledge, trucks that couldn't have done the damage, multiple McVeighs, lots of Ryder trucks everywhere.
No ammonium nitrate residue in the independent test.
An absence of radioactive isotopes in the lab test.
Asymmetrical damage to the building that couldn't have been done by one street bomb.
It just goes on and on.
And two explosions, man.
Boy, you say, well, what really happened?
You better read the book.
Who is now stating that the Federal Bureau of Investigation lied on the stand when they said that McVeigh had a patent on his, which is an explosive residue on his clothing, and it just never stops.
Right.
Well, Whitehurst is very adamant in his statements that the information given on the stand by FBI agent John Hursley Uh, with a complete fabrication that the evidence had been tampered with in the lab and that the FBI has a long history of, uh, doctoring up the evidence to favor prosecution cases.
And, of course, I'm sure he's going to have plenty to say about it, but he's, he's really strong on the business that, uh, Hursley lied on the stand, uh, a multiplicity of times, in particular about the, Explosive residue, I'm very sure, which apparently was not there at all.
They also lied about the number of explosions and they lied about the number of witnesses who heard more than one explosion and tried to pass that off as some kind of a strange atmospheric perversion of spinning in the wind or something.
I don't know.
That's so ridiculous.
We've got people at this conference.
Who personally heard two explosions who were downtown on the day of the bombing.
Everybody who was downtown heard two explosions.
The seismic record reflects two explosions.
There's no decrease in the amplitude of the explosions, which there would be if it was an echo.
We've got the testimony of seismologists and oh, it's just really a long story.
Well, it's going to get longer.
I mean, this is going to go on.
We're already discovering that just like the Kennedy assassination, people are springing up now to keep the public pleasantly amused and eventually turned off to really knowing what happened because about every other six days they're publishing a new theory of who did it and how it was done and what it all means.
You know all of that kind of thing.
I call it the Bob Groten Syndrome.
Well and they just oversaturate everybody to the point of nausea where you get to the place that you are so sick of dealing with the bombing, hearing about the bombing, talking about the bombing, studying the bombing, the bombing, the bombing, the bombing and you just want it to go away and you feel real sorry for those people but you know hey it wasn't my relatives And people are becoming desensitized and it's not good that they are you know because when you lose any kind of a drive on this thing then they can pull the wool over your eyes and tell you anything you want and because you're tired you just say okay and then it's over.
What have you got there?
This is a diet pill actually.
Okay.
One of Annie's diet pills.
Don't worry about it.
She'll eat it later.
Go ahead.
You were talking about?
I don't know what I was talking about.
We were talking about it's all over when you let your guard down mentally and succumb to the saturation attack of the public perpetrated by the media and the feds.
I better explain that.
You know, they'll think we're sitting here eating diet pills.
It's a tape that we're going to play on the satellite after we go off the air on the shortwave.
For all those of you listening on satellite tonight, you're going to get an extra hour, and we're just going to play this one tape of a portion of Michelle's lecture today, and hope that she didn't say anything that we don't want to play on satellite.
But we know that she didn't, so we're not going to worry about that.
Well, aren't you relieved to be relieved of your position as station chief?
Yes.
That makes you happy?
Well, I've thought a lot about it.
It's been a very big responsibility doing the work that I do, but I've made an awful lot of really fine, dependable friends and it's been a learning experience all the way around meeting everybody because the folks have individual diverse interests and certain areas of expertise
that I don't necessarily have, which is good because the people you work with, you want
them to do the things that you cannot do and you want them to do it well so the
one hand can wash the other and you can achieve more that way.
So in that respect, I know I'll still be able to talk with these folks any time that I want to,
but I just won't have to constantly be thinking of assignments or analysis
or collecting great big boxes of stuff that I have to go through
and I can maybe get the second book written in a more timely fashion and sleep a little.
And that's it.
And there is going to be a second book.
Compared to the first book, how do you think the, well let me put it another way, compared to the first book, which ended up being 640 pages, And it weighs a lot.
Do you think the second book is going to be longer?
It can't be longer.
That's the maximum the publisher can bind in the binding.
I thought they could bind 800.
No.
Because that's really what they gave us.
Is it?
Yeah.
Well, the possibility exists.
It could be longer.
It gets a little more difficult As you move forward in the chronology of time in the bombing investigation, because the information becomes less clear-cut, more convoluted, a lot of it's more disguised, your stories begin to disappear, your witnesses begin to be threatened, we've got five people who turn up unexpectedly dead, or eyewitnesses on the scene, lots and lots of things to deal with in enough detail that there's absolutely no mistaking what's really going on here.
And that, I hope, will be part of Volume 2.
Okay, and it's going to cover a lot bigger period of time.
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Boy, you almost sabotaged me.
You know, I can't even do anything without this.
It disappeared.
There we go.
That tells me when I'm supposed to play when.
Okay.
Are you set now?
I'm set.
Okay.
Well, now what do you want to talk about?
Let's shave.
Let's shave, he says.
Well, it's been a long time since I've, you know, five o'clock shadow.
What time is it?
It's five till twelve.
It's three till twelve.
I don't know.
My eyes are getting really blurry, Bill.
I can't read that clock.
We got up really early this morning to do some special studies, and we started a little earlier than we did yesterday, and I think everybody's a little bit blurry-eyed because it has been a long Hard pull today and we covered a massive amount of information and we really didn't, in my opinion, didn't really do more than just touch the surface of what can be done in training and teaching of how to really dig this stuff and become expert and to make investigation gathering an art form.
And when it's an art form, it's fun.
It's got to be fun.
Yeah, we're in Populous Party Land where the Populous Party actually sprang up out of the old Socialist Farmers Movement here in the state of Kansas and went out to inspect the German roots of the first Populous Party Lodge and next door was the old slave market where they used to trade with the Indians.
So, we got back at about 11 o'clock and then I watched a video about an alien invasion.
Well, we did, you know.
You guys who didn't come to the conference this year, you don't know what you missed.
They were just having a blast.
You really need to be here.
Don't miss it next year no matter what.
Yes, especially no matter what.
Well, you know, you did a remarkable job today.
The first time that you ever spoke at one of our conferences was, of course, the last
one.
And it was quite an ordeal for you, and you really didn't understand... Time constraints?
Time constraints, yeah.
And I think you ended up speaking for about 12 or 13 hours, and we managed to put that together with videotape, brought it down to 9 hours, which, don't order them, folks, because we don't have any more.
Right.
We made available and sold them all out, which was an incredible presentation.
Well, actually, I understood time constraints perfectly, but you're the one who said, well, go until you're done.
It doesn't matter.
So we went until we were done, and it was 12 hours of material.
Well, that's okay.
All I had to do was bring in the potatoes before the frost.
Right, right.
Well, it was a wonderful time, but we're a little more organized this year and more concise.
Okay.
Thank you, Michelle, for consenting to sit here and be silly with me for one hour after having been so serious for so many hours all day long.
I think it's incredible.
Uh, and I really appreciate it.
Thank you very much, Bill.
For those of you on satellites, stick around.
Don't go away, because you're going to hear another hour of the hour past the hour of the time.
Good night, folks, on Shortwave, and God bless you all.
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