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Oct. 12, 1995 - Bill Cooper
58:45
Joe from Texas
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Time Text
*Dramatic Music* Please, you're all I can say.
Yes, I'm a good-a-brookie.
Who will you ever see?
Who will you ever see?
Who will you ever see?
I live in your radio.
This is my dog, Chica Bear.
He lives in here, too.
I'm William Cooper, and you're listening to the Hour of the Time.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
A long, long time ago, I can still remember how that music used to make me smile.
And I knew if I had my chance that I could make those people dance and maybe they'd be happy for a while.
But February made me shiver with every paper I'd deliver.
Bad news on the doorstep.
I couldn't get one more sip.
I can't remember if I cried when I read about his widowed bride.
Something touched me deep inside.
the music died so bye bye well ladies and gentlemen we couldn't get joe from texas on last night but we've got him on tonight Welcome to the Hour of the Time, Joe.
Hello, Tom.
Gosh, I'm gonna reach through this microphone all the way to Texas and smack your cheeks for that.
I understand.
I appreciate you giving me this time to explain.
I got a tape of what was said and I can understand where they got, the press got what they got.
I left a sentence hanging, I left a paragraph hanging, you understand?
Because the talk show host David Goe brought up another subject right in between thoughts and I left something Well, what were you talking about?
Nobody out there knows what we're talking about except you and me.
Well, by and large, if anyone's got a hold of the internet lately, by and large they stated that I stated that for a long time these Mexican gangs, primarily Mexican gangs, had been robbing trains along the Mexican border and they had been doing this and for some time evidently I had been called Sons of Gestapo.
That's basically what was on the internet, right?
Yeah, that's right.
Technically.
Not only the internet, but some of the wire services too.
And some of the wire services.
But that's not exactly what I meant at all.
Or meant to say, or would have, if allowed to complete my thought, would have said.
There's a group in this country, it's pretty well organized, you know of them, it's a border states annexation group.
And what they intend to do is at some time or another annex these certain border states which they think were stolen from them.
Well, weren't they?
Yes.
You know, but we can't freeze time.
In the 1800s, you can't go home and you can't turn back.
Everything goes forward, Bill, and they have to go forward as well as we do.
Yeah, they're not going to get those states back.
Back to pre-1913 also, but we can't do that either.
Yeah, they're not going to get those states back, but we're going to be truthful about it, too.
We did steal them.
Yeah, we did steal them.
I didn't deny that.
And I didn't deny that the French and the Louisiana Purses, they had no right to sell what they didn't own.
You understand?
That's another story unto itself.
My problem is that I blame those individuals, not only them, but their fellow travelers, which are gangs.
There's the organized group that provide cover generally for those who are not card-carrying members.
You do understand?
And that was what I intended to say.
But I got off into Christopher Ruddy and his problems on 60 Minutes and didn't get a chance to finish the thought, okay?
And I left something out there hanging that sounded like something I wouldn't want to say, okay?
It's a matter of honor, Bill.
Uh-huh.
By and large, it's a matter of honor.
I would never have stated it that way or meant it that way.
Well, the reason I brought you on here tonight and wanted you on last night was so that you could explain this so that everybody can get one more example of how the press lies consistently and constantly to further an agenda.
Well, they have their agendas, but we all do.
I have an agenda.
You have an agenda, Bill.
That's a human condition.
But I never, within the last few years anyway, had an agenda intended to hurt anyone, okay?
Yeah, well there's a difference... Or possibly accuse anyone.
I had just as much evidence that they were guilty of this misdeed as you did about some individual who was just running over being fired from the railroad.
Or the individuals who claimed that ATF, they wanted to blame them so they could, you know, Well, the truth is, I didn't accuse anyone.
I don't know who did it, and I made that point.
What I was doing was offering examples of other possibilities than what the press was submitting to the American people, in that it is a right-wing, militia, white supremacist, racist, terrorist, domestic scumbag group.
Well, that also.
But also, you remember that the militia groups had threatened these Mexican deportation marks and that the federal government couldn't clean them up down there.
They were making certain parts of this country uninhabitable, causing large immigrations out of California to your state and Colorado, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
And threats were made, and I thought, and others had thought, that it would Well, we're not sure that there even is a letter.
First they said there was, then they denied it and said flatly that there wasn't, and now that they're saying that there is and it's several pages long, and I'm hearing from sources in the media that they've been given a copy And that it doesn't, it's not signed Sons of the Gestapo, it's signed something else.
It's signed Sons of the Gestapo SOG.
Well, you know what SOG means, don't you?
Yes, Special Operations Group.
How do you know it says Sons of the Gestapo?
I saw a copy that an individual that I shouldn't have seen allowed me to see.
Okay?
But I saw a copy of it too.
But it had been rearranged.
From what I understand, the original was single-spaced.
This is double-spaced and, you know, spread out where you could... How do you know they didn't change the wording in AdSense at this time?
I have no way of knowing that.
Well, that's what I'm trying to bring out to the people listening.
Nobody knows.
I have no idea when the letter was inserted or if the perpetrators are the same people who wrote the letter.
Yeah, well, I've got my doubts about that kind of stuff, too.
So I, you know, I'm where you are about that.
It was just that I made a calculated guess with some evidence, about the same evidence that some of the others have had.
Circumstantial indeed, but nevertheless evidence.
Because they have been robbing trains, or generally they hate railroads because they think railroads is what the Iron Horses used to swamp them in the 1700s and 1800s.
They were overwhelmed by the railroads and not by gringos, etc.
And they seemed to have this hang-up on railroads, this group.
And it was illogical, you know, to say, if you're going to attack railroads, if you've been attacking railroads in the past, then, you know, why wouldn't you attack railroads in the future?
That, basically, was my fault in blaming these people.
How did the press get the idea that you had said that they call themselves the sons of the Gestapo?
I don't know, Bill, because that's not what I said.
I guess you could infer, I might have inferred that, but it would have been, you know, even if I gave them the best, you know, it'd be push, okay?
If they had all the honor in the world, which they don't.
You can say that again.
It would mean a push.
But I can understand where someone that wanted to do a hatchet job on someone could have inferred that.
Okay?
I'll give them that.
Okay.
Even if they're not honorable, I'll give them that.
Well, they have no honor.
They have no ethics.
They have no morals.
They've proved that.
They are a propaganda arm of whatever powers are Well, I know who they are also.
It's not that they intend... A lot of them are under pressure.
Some of them were CIA operatives.
They were using the press pass to spy for the United States government.
Now these people have been promoted in their organizations to hide within the media and they make policy decisions.
And then you have the only ones willing to go out here and dig for the truth.
They send in their work, and guess what editors do?
They edit.
And by the time they get through with their article, it does not appear as what was sent in.
There used to be a time when we didn't call that editing.
We called it censorship.
Well, editing is censorship.
Well, editing is not censorship.
Editing is making sure that an article is grammatically correct, contains the proper language, is the proper length for the space that it's going to fit into in the newspaper.
When they fail to print things simply because it's the truth, or it's politically incorrect, or it might hurt their agenda, that's censorship, in my estimation.
It is.
But I have a more strict definition of that.
Most of all, photography is cut up and it ends up on the cutting room floor.
Most articles written by honorable reporters end up in the file 13 or their lawyers say that they can't print this because they may be sued.
So there you go.
If any article has any relevance, it probably won't be printed.
Yeah, well, that's correct, and they never are.
Well, Joe, is there anything you want to impart to our listening audience before we... You wanted to ask some questions.
I thought about Nina while I was on here.
I could probably do that for you.
Okay.
Why don't you tell us what you want to tell us, because I know there's some things you don't want to tell us, and I don't want to ask you something you don't want to tell us.
Uh, that have investigated MENA, haven't came to, uh, any headway evidently, is MENA means nothing.
MENA, basically, was a 5,000 foot runway that had repair and refueling facilities, uh, uh, and, uh, that was it.
Uh, and they go down there at MENA, the press does, and hang around there and they find out nothing.
Uh, it was more, this operation was more than that.
It was, uh, Proprietorial companies making parts for weapons systems.
It was, you know, it was Waco, it was Iron Mountain, it was Hull's Place in Costa Rica.
It was, you know, it was a rather large thing.
And MENA was just a rather small, insignificant part of what the total operation was.
And I guess, Nicholas Rorino, you're a Your guy on the scene did as well a job as one could do.
There's not much left to be said.
You understand?
Not much.
It's all been said in the past.
It's just that, by and large, what they don't understand is that the CIA generally, well, not generally, absolutely, has no authority Our power within the borders of the United States.
They just don't have any.
The DEA ran the MENA operations, by and large, within the continental borders of the United States, you understand?
The DEA did, as an adjunct to the CIA.
And when these people go around looking for people to hang, they run into the DEA and the DEA says, It was a sting operation.
It was a sting operation that lasted about 10 years, you understand.
And that's what poor old Terry Reed, him and his court case down there, that's what he ran into.
This thing is going to be long forgotten before anybody of significance gets persecuted or prosecuted.
You understand that, don't you, Bill?
Well, I have no inkling at all that anybody of any merit or note is going to be prosecuted, period.
And all these people that claim that Clinton is going to be impeached and go to jail and all that, they're dreaming.
It's not going to happen.
You know, I've said, if they really wanted to stick some people in jail, if they really wanted to, and I've said it over and over again on these talk shows, At my own peril, you understand, about if I really want to find out where the money went, which everyone wants to follow money trails.
That's how they put people in jail these days.
They follow the money trail.
If they want to follow the money trail, they go through American Express International in Brownsville, Texas to Coral Reinsurance Limited, Barbados.
By just a straight line, when BCCI closed down and started getting into trouble and money started moving, Bill, it moved through those routes.
And the original set-up money for that company in Barbados came out of ADTRA, the Arkansas Finance Development Authority.
Development Authority, and $5 million of the startup money came from there.
It should tell you something.
If they really wanted to get to the bottom of this, they could.
And right after BCCI, $250 million was transferred through that little one-horse bank that has a hundred-horse capitalization to that insurance company in Barbados, you understand. $250 million was transferred through that little one-horse bank that Sure.
And I've said this over and over again.
And if they really wanted to nail these people to the wall, they could go to the Miami field office of the DEA and ask for, under Freedom of Information, 12B-15.
And it would tell you about, generally, without a whole lot of blacking out, this, you know, the DEA's Activities within Arkansas.
Did you know Barry Seal?
Yes, I sure did.
He was a friend of mine, if an individual can be a friend.
In fact, a knowledgeable person.
A fudge!
But I've known in my life a lot of fudge, Bill.
So, you know, more or less, he He's not one of those people you probably want for a next door neighbor, but he's probably one of those persons you'd want to know when the crapola hits the fan.
He's one of those.
Yep, I knew Barry.
I knew him, you know, for a long time.
Was Barry working for somebody else or was he doing his own deal?
He was... Well, you have to understand...
The biggest laugh I got in this whole thing was looking at Terry Reid and John Cummings' organization structure in his book.
I laughed for two days, you know.
The whole thing was ridiculous.
You had DEA on this side of the borders.
You had the CIA across the borders.
You had the Dixie Mafia aside.
You had politicians.
You had businessmen and entrepreneurs.
You could not set up a chart or an organization chart of this.
It was the most ridiculous thing you've ever seen.
It was a balancing act to keep these things in line.
My job primarily was to keep the flow of assets from manufacturers and different procurement activities to the different areas of the world that they were carrying on their little hot wars, you understand, And that was my job.
Quartermaster, that's the term.
Facilitator, you can use whatever you wish, job description-wise.
But anyhow, Very recently was brought in by Dewey Clearidge, who was station chief in Costa Rica.
He was brought into the operation long in the late 70s and he worked with the CIA and DEA and of course everyone, there was drugs, I'm not about to deny that, but there's been drugs in his refinancing of Off-budget military action for a long time.
And this goes back to Laos, Air America, etc.
You understand?
Oh, yeah.
My good friend John Lear has filled me in on all of those things.
Oh, he did?
One of my best friends from Air America that, in a time frame, was killed or was shot down in Nicaragua.
Another one by the same name as yourself.
Yes, I know.
But, anyhow... Austin Foose was on that plane.
Now the creep, he'll get here.
But anyhow, laying that all aside, I, you know, we won.
I have no apologies for what I did.
I, you know, we had a government that was by and large, the Bowman Amendment, et cetera, et cetera.
He'd gone forever on that.
We had our congressman consorting with the NMA.
We had all that going on at the same time.
And they would not finance the operations because they were fellow travelers of the people we were fighting by and large.
And I don't have any apologies, Bill, for what I've done.
Joe, I've got news for you.
What?
I've got news for you.
We didn't win and the fellow travelers are going to have their one world socialist totalitarian government pretty darn soon.
Well, not all of us are dead, Bill.
You're not dead, are you?
No, I'm not dead.
I'm not dead.
But I got to tell you something.
There isn't enough of us right now.
There's enough to fight a guerrilla war for many more years than they want to deal with, I'll tell you that.
But most of the sheeple will go along with whatever they're told.
You know that and I know that.
Well, I think they will until it hits the fan, Bill.
I think you can push the American citizen only so far.
I think that once it hits the fan, you'd be surprised how much help you'll get.
Well, I think you're right.
I think we'll get some help.
But by and large, most of the population have learned to love socialism.
But I will also tell you this.
The American government cannot depend upon its own military.
Well, we know that too.
Tell you that.
You don't have to tell me that.
I know that.
But anyhow, I have sources and friends still in at the general level.
But anyhow, neither here nor there, it's just that, did you have anything you wanted answered?
Someone said I was going to get a hatchet job.
Go ahead, hatchet me, Bill.
Why should I do that?
I don't know.
I don't know, Bill.
The only people I ever hatchet are fools and the enemies.
I hope I don't fit any of them.
I have no respect for people who cannot use their intelligence and I have no respect for the enemy.
Period.
I don't.
I feel the same.
The only thing that I've ever disagreed with you on primarily is that on the party that the more they split us up or fragment us and if we participate in that fragmentation We're only hurting ourselves.
That was my only disagreement I ever had with you, Phil.
We're not fragmenting anybody.
You'll notice that the Constitution Party does not have a presidential candidate.
We understand full well the fragmentation.
In fact, it was me, several years ago, that brought that to the attention of the public, and I was the first and only one who spilled the beans on what Mr. Perrault was doing, while everybody was lining up behind him.
He split the conservative vote and made sure that Bill Clinton got elected.
That's exactly what he was about, and that's exactly what they're all doing now.
Because of that, the Constitution Party will not have a presidential candidate until it is clear to us that someone has stepped forward who has a chance to win that race.
We'll back them 100% if there is.
And people are criticizing us because we're not behind Charles Collins.
Charles Collins hasn't got a chance in hell.
Not a Chinaman's chance.
That's right.
Or a snowball.
That's exactly correct.
And, you know, reality is something we must face, Bill.
That's right.
And it seems that the patriot movement has a great deal of problems looking at reality in the face.
Well, along with not supporting their institutions.
It's nice to hear somebody besides me say that.
No.
Facts are facts.
And, you know, shooting off my mouth has probably been my major problem.
And it's caused me a great deal of problem over the past.
But, you know, if you don't say what you say and mean what you say, there's not much to you.
That's correct.
And it's a matter of honor.
And people, American people have lost, by and large, this idea of what honor is.
You are what you say, you say what you mean, you don't beat around the bush, and you are who you are.
And you stand by it.
And you stand for something.
Right.
If you don't stand for something, you'll go for anything as the song goes.
My grandfather told me something before he died.
He told me, Bill, when you die, if you can count one good friend, During your whole life you've done well.
I've lived 56 years and I've got three.
And he said well you're not dead yet.
That's true.
You're going to lose two of them.
And he said if you don't have any enemies you never did anything right.
And I think he's 100% correct.
I must be one honorable son of a gun.
I've been adding more and more to that list every day.
You show me a man who has no enemies and everybody loves him and he gets along with everybody that he knows and never has any disagreements with anybody and I'll show you a wishy-washy No account pleaser.
He'll be whatever somebody wants him to be, just to get along.
You can't tell a man by his friends, but you sure can tell him by his enemies.
Yeah, that's right.
But anyhow, Bill, I've got to get off of here.
I've got something to get at.
But I can answer something about me that, you know, I probably know as much about it as anyone left alive, in quotation marks, you understand.
A lot of them are dead.
Yeah, I know.
Well, a lot of it hasn't come out yet.
Some English journalist called me not too long ago and wanted some information that he was told that I had.
And without letting anybody know whether I have it or not, I told him to go fish.
And the reason I told him to go fish is because he wrote a big hatchet job on the militia in this country.
Who, Ambrose Pritchard?
In his English newspapers, yeah.
Uh, the information, not on me, and it won't do anybody any good to come and try to get it, but it's in a safe place, and at the proper time, it'll be printed on the front page of Veritas.
Well.
How about that?
How about that?
I wouldn't give that SOB anything after he wrote that article condemning the militias in this country.
You see, the English have a big bone to pick with us because we kicked their butts in the Revolutionary War, and they don't like the militia.
Well, as far as honors goes here, Ambrose is probably as honorable as any of the rest of them, probably more so.
But I know how you feel about the press in general, and I share some of that.
I do think maybe there is some honor among some portions of it, but they're not allowed to be totally honorable.
Well, they've got to prove it to me.
If one of them can prove it to me, then I'll change my mind on that one.
Some of their necks are on the line too.
Yeah, but let me tell you something.
When you're in a war, and you're on the battle line, and your neck's on the line, you don't go behind everybody else and dig a poxhole and hide.
And that's what they're doing.
I'm out here with my neck and everything else hanging out over the cliff and so are a lot of other good people.
You're one of them.
And so when they whine to me about their neck is on the line and all that kind of stuff, that's baloney.
Yeah, I've been shot at with crossbows.
I've had a car blown out from under me.
You know, they don't have to tell me out loud that they don't like me.
You understand?
Oh, I know.
I'm either a threat or something to be squashed.
Let me tell you, my friend, I know exactly who you are.
You go back and tell whoever told you that I was going to rake you over the coals that they don't know they're you-know-what from a hole in the ground.
Now, there's a bunch of people out here that claim to be what they're not, but I am not one of those.
I know that.
You know Mark from Michigan and others we have heard we've heard all this in the past and I just like you say I think we need to check everything that everyone says and check who says it.
It's absolutely imperative Joe because most of the stuff that's floating around out there I've already proven it we have taken
What floats through the Patriot network and the Patriot fax network and passes from hand to hand, we put it in piles and we have gone through and checked every bit of it and we found that approximately well between 95 and 98 percent of every single document that floats through the Patriot community is false phony bullshit.
Wow.
And there's about between five and Two and five percent that's genuine.
That's kind of a projection of the problem of weeding out most of it.
That's right.
But that's what we have to do.
If we don't, we're just passing on baloney and being suckered in on everything that comes along.
A lot of it has to do with money.
They're going to make some money.
I have never made a dime off of anything.
I've never written a book and I could have written a book and I've had the Terry Reid and others come to me looking for information so they could add to their story line.
You understand?
Well you should write a book and you should make some money because that's what America is all about.
I understand that but we're getting back to honor.
Nothing dishonorable about making money off your own efforts.
It's dishonorable to use one's office.
Whether you're a politician or a bureaucrat, it's dishonorable that you use one's office after retirement or after you've left to use that information to write a book or make money.
I'm sorry.
That's just the way I feel about it.
Well, that's okay if that's the way you feel about it, but I don't think you're classified as holding an office.
You were an employee in a lot of dirty deals.
Well, I was an employee that followed orders.
I didn't like all of them but I called them Will.
That's all I knew.
I came out of the military.
I didn't know anything else.
My M.O.S.
was to kill people, break things.
I didn't have any job skills to transfer into civilian life so I was a prime candidate for, you know.
I know exactly what you mean, and I know exactly what you did, and I know exactly what you're talking about.
I don't know everything that you did, but I know an awful lot about it.
I also know this, that we can't do that anymore.
I did a lot of those things when I was in the military and when I was out.
I did things because somebody told me to do them because I thought it was my patriotic duty.
Well, I think maybe we probably need to make amends in whatever way we can.
I wasn't helping this country, I was hurting it.
And that's exactly what Hitler's stormtroopers said.
They were just following orders.
So I love you and I know what you did and I know what I did and a lot of other people did, and we've all got to stop it.
Well, I think maybe we probably need to make amends in whatever way we can.
I have guilt feelings also.
You know, we're all human beings and we feel like human beings.
We do some things that are not human in our life.
That's why there could never be a utopian world government.
That's what I was getting at.
It's still got to be run by human beings.
Perfection is not going to be reached in this time.
Nope.
So, I don't know, Phil.
I've thought about this a long time and I've talked to others and the solutions I disagree with you that in my life I was told that he who gets there fastest with the most is usually wins.
He who throws the first punch and it's the final punch wins etc.
etc.
etc.
and you've always said let him fire the first shot.
I don't agree.
Well there's a lot of people that don't agree but in my research in my state This war is going to be fought largely with propaganda, and believe me, if the people without any force of authority granted to them by the majority of Americans fire first at anybody who belongs to the government, they're going to lose the war.
We cannot compete with their propaganda machine, and most of the American sheeple will believe whatever Dan Rather tells them on the 6 o'clock news.
But you have to remember, the Russian Revolution was started by twelve people, and the sheeple, by and large, are irrelevant here.
Bill, I hate to say this, but it's true.
The Nazi party was a rather small group.
Most of the major movements, whether it was in China or Iran, were rather small in the beginning, and they grew.
And a few people kind of swam in the sea, you know, hitting the masses.
Hitting, hitting the masses.
Hitting, swam in the sea, as Chairman Mao said.
You know, the structure of a crumble, if it, this American government, or the powers that be, I don't think have the guts that fight a protracted civil war.
No, but that's not the whole point of the thing.
You see, socialism generally comes to power through revolution brought about by the people who think that they're going to get something that they never end up with.
And that's... So does capitalism, Bill.
Pardon?
So does capitalism, by and large.
You know, revolution.
Power is something that very seldom gets changed without violence.
Chairman Mao is also right about that.
I know you don't want to hear me say that, but it's true.
No, he was right.
Power emanates from the barrel of a gun.
That's correct.
I've said it over and over again on this broadcast.
Oh, you have?
Yeah.
But anyhow, I believe that.
Chairman Mao was not wrong in many things if you're talking about revolution.
He pretty well, him and Tito probably knew as much about it as anyone did.
He was an expert.
They wrote the books.
So that's why we need to keep out of Bosnia by and large.
Not only wrote the books, they kept the books.
The problem with civil war Joe is the people may be fighting it and the people may have honorable intentions but I guarantee you when it's over somebody will be in power that they never dreamed of being in power and they're not going to get what they want.
Well they very seldom do.
That's right.
And those that gain power end up whacking the intellectuals that help them gain power.
Oh, yeah.
Boy, that's what I can't understand about these so-called intellectuals.
They don't read history, and they're supposed to be the experts on all this stuff.
Oh, yeah, but they're going to get it.
They're a threat.
They sure are.
Intellectuals are a threat from whatever spectrum you're looking at them from.
They're the first ones executed always.
You know, Paul Potts did that sort of thing.
They did it in the French Revolution.
Paul Pott did it.
They did it in every socialist revolution that ever brought socialism or communism into power.
Every penny-ante little war that ended up with a dictator.
All of these things have always brought about the end of what they call the intelligentsia in those countries.
There's not any of them left in Cambodia at the present time.
All the doctors, all the lawyers, all the professors, they're gone.
That's right.
They ended up in the bone piles.
I think our collegiate elite ought to take a good look at that.
I can prove that they're not as smart as they think they are just by who they're backing here.
Yeah, well, the intelligentsia always back the wrong side.
Yeah, isn't that something?
Isn't it?
They're supposed to be of a high intellect and they tend to, by and large, put their necks in the guillotine.
That's right.
Understand?
Yeah.
I really don't.
I haven't lived long enough to understand that.
Well, I don't understand it either.
I've tried to figure it out.
I can't understand it.
You know, it's easy for me to figure it out, and they can't figure it out, and they think they're going to come out ahead.
They're going to come out dead, and it's always been that way.
And if anything travels in one direction for a long period of time, it has a tendency to always travel in that direction.
Yeah.
That's a physical law.
And that, you know, things are not going to change.
The more they change, the more they remain the same.
That's correct.
And I don't know.
There's a little hope left for us, Bill.
But it's hard to maintain any in the present atmosphere.
I've thought about this a great deal.
I do a lot of thinking about this.
I used to think that I had all the answers and the older I get, Bill, the more confused I become.
Someone says that's just the more knowledge creeping in.
When you finally decide you don't know everything, then you have reached maturity.
Well, that's what happened to me.
I started out at 16.
I knew everything in the world and I've ended up so far at low 50s.
It doesn't matter.
We're about the same age.
What the number is, but it's low 50s.
And I'm discovering, and I've been discovering for many years now, that the more I learn, the more there is to learn.
And that I don't think anybody is ever going to live long enough to learn what they need to know just to make this world a better place.
Well, maybe it's what they say, it's the struggle that counts.
And maybe without the struggle life has no meaning.
Did you ever think of it that way, Bill?
Oh, not only thought about it, I've done whole shows on it.
It's the core of my belief that you must participate.
Life is for the living.
You must make a decision at the fork of the road and you must fight the battles.
If you don't, then you're dead.
Life has no meaning, if you don't.
That's right.
That's exactly right.
I just wish that, and I do appreciate you giving me the time to explain.
I felt that I needed to explain what I meant.
Well, I appreciate your coming on.
I've not done this before.
I've called in, you know, for the two minute segments between commercials to certain people.
David Gold is a friend of mine.
I think he's a friend of yours also.
Yeah.
We don't always agree, but we agree to disagree.
It's not a requirement that we all agree.
It is a requirement that we all stop believing people blindly and start thinking for ourselves.
That is a definite requirement.
That is what I intend to do.
I do not follow orders any longer and I do not follow individuals any longer.
Good for you.
I don't ever intend to do that again.
I don't know which got there first, but it's not necessary that we even know that.
I do agree with you on most things.
I'm still working on others.
I'll reach my own conclusion, I suppose, in some future time.
And I hope that I don't remain the same as I was yesterday, and I hope I continue to learn.
Well, good for you.
I hope we all do.
And you have done a great deal.
You've been kind of the lighthouse out there in the darkness to a bunch of people, and I know that you're pissed off at the sheeple, but, you know, Most of them haven't had the life experiences that you and I have had, Bill, and maybe it's hard for them to understand.
We're the total sum of our life experience, Bill, and you have to give them that.
You understand?
And at some point in time, they'll come aboard.
I have to believe that.
Well, they may or may not.
I've found that people basically are weak when it comes to Being responsible or doing what they're supposed to do.
They'd rather have somebody else do it.
That's why socialism is so attractive.
It doesn't demand that anyone be responsible.
It doesn't demand that they do anything necessarily to survive.
In fact, it says, you know, whether you want to survive or not, we'll force feed you.
Well, I don't worry about those characters.
I spent my whole life black-whacking those people to understand on the world stage.
I'm sure that they don't have any love for me and I surely don't have any love for them.
I've said that there's two people in this world that have killed more Socialists than I have and that was Chairman Mao and Stalin.
And only those!
And only those!
But not necessarily.
We did a clean-out job in Southern Africa, or South-West Africa, with Jonas Bimby.
Oh, you wouldn't believe, you know.
And that's why, you know, MENA and the environs of that operation was my Thule, Greenland, Catholic, Iceland thing, you understand?
Yes.
And for blowing up American oil interests, which I was told not to touch.
But we smoked them and therefore I got called back in and placed in a position where I had to fail.
I don't know.
I've got a lot to answer for but I'm not going to apologize for it.
Okay?
Well that's up to you.
But a lot of people think that I should do some Amoea Copas.
You remind me of my dad all my life.
He would just do some terrible things.
When somebody would ask him why he never apologized for those things, he said he thought that was a sign of weakness.
I think it's a sign of strength.
I've apologized to many people.
I've apologized to my listening audience.
Whenever I do something wrong, I hope I always have the good sense to apologize for it.
But I understand exactly where that attitude comes from.
Many of us were raised that way.
It's hard to get rid of what you've been taught all your life, isn't it?
You are the sum total of your life experiences and it's hard to change that.
It finally got to me that killing socialists was the normal thing to do, or communists.
I participated in the massacre of a great deal of them.
I lost a lot of friends along the way.
You know, I think it's kind of even-steven.
You know what I mean?
I think it's even-steven.
I think I gave and I took.
And life usually balances out.
I lost a lot of friends in this.
And I'm continuing to lose them.
So... When did you find out what I found out?
That at the very top there wasn't any war?
That's why the United States and the Soviet Union never had any clash.
Never.
This whole Cold War was cooked up by Truman, or not Truman, but Roosevelt, Stalin, and Churchill.
I understand that, Bill.
So they had people like me and you running around killing each other for nothing.
I understood that.
Their whole goal from the beginning was to mesh capitalism Well, I'm not so sure it's not a total complete, but I don't know.
They all nearly succeeded.
Yeah.
Well, they haven't lost yet.
They're well on the way to succeeding.
Well, I'm not so sure.
It's not a fatale compli.
But I don't know.
There's a bunch of us out here, though, Bill, that could go back to doing what we were doing, if you understand.
I understand that, but what would you be doing?
Well, I don't know.
It would be pointless.
We had a defined enemy at one time.
It's hard to define who one's enemy is anymore.
Yeah, but you see, it never was an enemy.
They never were our enemy.
The whole thing was concocted.
I understand that, but we on the battlefield accepted the definitions.
Yeah, we did, because we didn't know any better.
But I wouldn't do it today.
If they came to me and told me, pointed over there and said, that's your enemy, go get them, I'd laugh in their face.
But Bill, some of us knew that while we were doing it.
And maybe that's where apologies need to be made.
Yeah, well, I would agree with you.
I had came to that conclusion while we were shooting.
So I maybe do have.
Some apologies to make, but I don't know to whom.
That's the problem.
Who is the enemy and who do you owe apologies to?
I think Pogo had it right.
He went off in the swamp with Churchy and all the rest of them in their little boat with their little tin pots on their head and their wooden swords and a few Sundays later he came back and beached his little piro on the beach there and And Mrs. Le Pew came down and he held up his sword and said, We have found the enemy, and they are us!
Well, that's true.
We tend to be our own worst enemies.
That we were told in the past by our parents.
We are our own worst enemy, by and large.
You know, they were right about a lot of things.
They kept these little old sayings that We kind of cast aside at the time but come back to haunt us.
They used to practice wisdom.
Can you hear me?
Yeah.
They had wisdom and they had common sense.
Common sense has disappeared by and large.
Most people don't even know what it is.
Of course we've lost our wisdom and we've started warehousing our old folks in these nursing homes.
That's right.
And now children have lost any concept of what death means because they never see anybody die except on television.
They also lose make-believe.
The ancients, which are passed on through grandparents.
That's right.
Which is the core beliefs and culture.
How sad and how shameful.
Let's correct all this Bill.
I think we're all trying.
I know you're trying and I know I'm trying and I know a lot of other people are trying.
I don't know how successful we are but I know that we're trying.
I think we're making some sort of headway because people are beginning to take pot shots at us.
And verbal and others.
If our enemies don't take pot shots at us, then we're not doing our jobs.
Well, in this day and age, let me tell you what it means when they acknowledge your existence.
It means you have hurt them grievously, when they even mention your name.
Because their policy is to ignore their enemies unless you are injuring them grievously and they are forced to deal with you.
When you become the brunt of a propaganda attack, as I have, as you have, as many others have, it means that we are hurting them.
But it doesn't mean anything if most of the people believe their propaganda and turn against us.
The truth don't set them free.
It makes them angry.
That's right.
But the truth will generally set the sheeple free.
I believe that.
Some of them.
A lot of people have awakened.
I'll grant you that.
Since 1988, when I had to travel a thousand miles to talk to two people, and by and large they didn't really want to hear it, now it's not the case.
I do understand.
As long as you keep your head down and your powder dry all at the same time, be willing to fight.
That's basically what a human being is.
If you don't stand up for what you believe in, then there's not much to you.
I would hate to be left in this world with a tombstone that read, here lies so and so.
I want it to read that he did something.
I would like something for the fact that he did his damnedest.
Well, you know what I believe?
I believe that we're taught wrong when we're told it doesn't matter whether you win or lose.
It does matter.
It always matters.
that go any distance forward.
Well, you know what I believe?
I believe that we're taught wrong when we're told it doesn't matter whether you win or lose.
It does matter.
Yes.
It always matters.
They do not give trophies to losers.
That's right.
And there's something else that matters.
Whether you do win or lose, it does matter that you fought the battle and that you made the right choices in fighting the battle.
And you did it honorably.
Right.
And of course we need an honors code.
It may take a long time to win.
But what?
Our grandchildren may still be fighting this battle.
Well teach the grandchildren the truth and they will be raised up in the right ways.
You know, you don't have to be the last of the warriors.
Oh no.
Just send more warriors into the field.
That's right.
So that's what we've got to do.
You know, from little seedlings, great, or little acres, great trees grow and that, you know, if you plant a seed, Bill, you never know what it's going to grow into.
That's true.
And you've planted as many seeds as anyone I can think of.
Well, I think old Johnny Appleseed did pretty good.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, but this is a different kind of seed.
I know, I'm just... Yeah, I know.
You gotta have some humor in this or you'll end up shooting yourself.
Because there's very little humor in what you and I have been participating in for years.
That's correct.
There is no humor here in this.
You know, There's nothing funny about war, whether it's ideological war or it's an actual hot war.
There's just, you know, there's nothing really funny.
Even spitwads hurt.
Yeah, that's true.
But I don't know.
I guess I'll continue to fight until they get me.
And I hope you do the same.
I felt that Oh I don't have any choice.
They sentenced me a long time ago.
I don't have any choice.
Even if I wanted to quit I can't.
I've heard you either disgust or disdain or something in your voice in the last few months and I said oh please don't.
Well when it came down to it and somebody that I really loved and respected just turned around and became a turncoat that just about did it.
I just wasn't ready for that.
Well, you're going to get that, Bill.
People generally go with the flow, and you've been peddling upstream for a long time, and why should you be terribly surprised if someone that's been peddling upstream with you gives out, turns around, and goes afloat?
Why would that bother you?
Generally, it would never have bothered me.
I had put up a wall that would not allow anyone to get in any kind of a position where it ever could bother me until that person came along.
And then when he did that, I just never believed he could have done it.
And that's not just that.
It's just all the accumulated crap that my family and I have had to put up with fighting this battle over the years that has just amounted to, you know, it's just up to over my eyebrows and I'm just sick of it.
Did you really expect them to put out their arms as they come to you?
Oh, of course not.
You surely didn't expect that sort of reaction?
No.
And when it's a true enemy facing me, I have respect for the enemy.
I fought in Vietnam.
I have great respect for the Viet Cong, the North Vietnamese that I fought against.
But I don't have respect And what hurts me the most is the stupidity and the measly little, selfish, petty crap that so-called patriots and sheep will indulge themselves in.
It's beyond my understanding.
That's really what has piled up beyond my capacity to deal with it.
I've got to tell you, when our enemies talk about the masses as cattle, generally I've discovered that they're correct.
And until somebody changes them from cattle to real people, they'll always be that way.
And it's sickening.
You have to go back to what Sherman's mouth said, swim in the sea.
In the masses.
You know, you just have to, you know, he wasn't totally wrong about everything.
Oh no, when he understood symbology, too.
He certainly did.
I've read everything, not only this little red book, everything else, and everything I can find on Tito.
You know what, Joe?
The Ph.D.
you can get at Revolution.
Joe, I'm out of time.
I've got to go right now.
Okay, take care, buddy.
Thanks for calling.
Good night, folks.
Hope you've enjoyed tonight's little conversation with Joe from Texas.
And God bless you all. .
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