All Episodes
Previous Next
March 7, 1995 - Bill Cooper
57:41
Linda Thompson (live)
| Copy link to current segment

Time Text
It's time.
And I hope you will see you again.
I hope you will see you again.
You're listening once again to the Hour of the Time.
I'm William Cooper.
Folks, I want to make sure that all of you who were planning to go to this rally in San Bernardino on March the 11th know that it has been postponed.
alone.
The rally that was supposed to be on March 11th, 1995, Forever Free America rally in San Bernardino has been postponed.
It has been postponed until April the 22nd, 1995.
April the 22nd.
I'm going to give you a phone number that you can call to get information on this.
We announced this twice before, the night that we got it and one other night, and I want to make sure because we're getting close to that time, so don't take off from home and show up March 11th.
There won't be anybody there.
April 22nd, 1995 will be the Forever Free America Rally in San Bernardino.
You can call for information 602.
2-0-5-2-3-8-6.
That's 6-0-2-2-0-5-2-3-8-6.
One more time.
6-0-2-2-0-5-2-3-8-6.
6-0-2-2-0-5-2-3-8-6.
One more time.
6-0-2-2-0-5-2-3-8-6.
Now, if you know somebody who's not listening and thinks that it's still going to be happening on March 11th, please contact them so that they don't make a wasted trip.
This really gets me that somebody would do something like this.
I really don't like it.
I'm not sure what I'm going to do about this.
It also screwed up our plans here for our next seminar.
And so anyway, that's all up in the air now.
And I'm still trying to make a decision on that.
So just hang on, folks.
I'll let you know in the next couple of days.
The Veritas is gone to press.
We put the paper to bed.
It's gone to press, folks.
It's an incredible piece of work.
And I am so proud of Bart and Mike, whom you listened to last night.
They have done a remarkable job staying up until sometimes 3, 3.30 in the morning and then coming in the next day and continuing to get this paper out.
Our deadline was March 1st.
We didn't get it done until March 7th.
It's our first time ever doing a paper, any of us, so I think that even though we're seven days late, we've done a remarkable job, and we're going to improve with every single issue.
Don't go back.
Don't go anywhere.
Don't go away.
Don't even think about leaving your radio, because tonight's show is going to burn your fingers.
There's somebody a-comin'.
I want to be a cowboy sweetheart I want to learn to roam and to ride
I want to ride over the plains and the desert Out west of the great divide I want to hear the coyotes Well, she's already been out here, and she's a lot of cowboy sweetheart.
I can guarantee you that.
Linda, welcome to the Hour of the Time.
Are you there?
Hello?
Linda?
Well, it looks like we're not getting her.
Linda, can you hear us?
Hello?
Okay.
All right.
Hello?
Okay.
All right.
Hello?
Well, she put us on hold, I guess.
I don't know what's going on here.
But, I'm hanging up the phone.
So, somebody call Linda Thompson, tell her that we had something going wrong here, and tell her to call back.
Because, it's not working.
Whatever it is, it's not working.
So, uh... Yep, it's gone.
Okay.
Well, we had Linda Thompson on the line, and you could hear her talking, and you could hear the other person talking, and I don't know what it is.
Maybe it's the conference setup that she had going that has prevented us from being able to do this.
So we're going to go back and let you listen to some music while we try to rectify this situation.
Don't go away because if we can get this straightened out it's well worth waiting for.
Well, we'll see if it's working this time.
Linda?
Okay.
Hello?
Hello?
Hi.
Hi.
Well, we've been calling on and then Errol came in and said to come on the radio.
You couldn't hear us.
I've got to get Mark back on the line.
Well, we've got you now, but go ahead, I'll play some music and give you a few minutes to get him back on the line.
Somebody had hit the privacy button on the thing here.
Oh, okay.
Well, that's left over from last night.
All right, we'll be right back.
Okay.
Hang on, folks.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I'm sorry.
So, I don't know what's going to happen.
We'll keep trying this.
We'll get a little bit going because I've got something that you need to find out about.
We'll keep trying this.
We're here.
Oh, good.
Fantastic.
It's about time.
I kept cutting us off.
I don't know why.
Hi, folks.
Mark's on the line, too.
Yes, I'm here.
Would you explain to us, Linda, who Mark is?
Sure.
Mark Adams is a member of the Indiana Militia, and he was involved in a pretty terrifying incident last, well, Thursday before last, where his house was surrounded by two SWAT teams Uh, the state police, the hostage negotiation team, the sheriff's department, the local police, and they were armed for bear.
And Mark can pretty much tell you how it was for them inside the house and how it went, but this was an incident where the militia absolutely came in handy and absolutely made this end in a way different than Waco, that's for sure, or Mark wouldn't be here today.
Every time I pick up a paper lately, they're trying to portray the militia as neo-Nazis, or racists, or crazies.
And yet, there's not been any incidences of any of those things that I'm aware of.
Instead, we're having incidences like Mark's, where the militia gets involved, and the outcome is very good.
And it's exactly what a militia is for.
So I'd rather let Mark tell you, because he was, you know... Let's see, what led up to this, Linda?
Or Mark?
What led up to this?
What started this?
Well, this started over a custody dispute.
Custody of what?
Custody of my two children from... Okay, you got to remember that nobody out here knows even the slightest idea what you're talking about.
So you got to start from square one and explain everything clearly.
Okay, back in 1989, I came out of the service.
I was in the Marine Corps for eight years.
I came out, came home to raise my two boys because my wife was leaving and was filing for divorce.
She did that and left me with the two boys, signed them over to me, full custody.
And since I have remarried, I've stayed in this area and got remarried just a few years ago.
And since that time, I've kind of been harassed a lot by her, been taken back to court time after time again under false accusations by her to try to get the boys back or get more visitation or get me to give her money or something to that effect.
The last three times I went to court, I found that I was under a court that I believe has no jurisdiction over me and shouldn't even be involved in this matter and also a court that is deaf.
We brought substantial evidence against her, even her perjuring herself in front of the judge time after time on the stand, and yet the judge gave her what she wanted every time.
So the last time that we went in, a month before, I had challenged his jurisdiction And in that, the subject matter, that he didn't have jurisdiction over myself or the subject matter, and he did not respond to that.
I gave him 30 days to respond.
He set up another hearing.
We went in for that hearing and presented our case.
I quoted him statute after statute.
He quoted me nothing and showed me nothing.
He only said he determined that he had jurisdiction in this matter.
I told him it was a matter that he didn't have jurisdiction in and that I would work out visitation with her.
She had signed over full custody to me.
I appeared specially in court.
I wasn't there defending myself as was the position I have always find myself in when I go to court or anyone against these charges.
You're supposed to be innocent until proven guilty.
However, it's not that way.
I'm guilty, and I have to prove that what they're saying is lies, and I did that every time, yet the judge ignored it.
Well, let's stay away from that, because that's a subjective opinion, and we don't know whether you're right or wrong.
We want to get down to what brought this about, what happened, and we don't want to get into who's wrong or who's right between you and your wife, because we have no way of knowing that.
Right, okay.
I challenged the court's jurisdiction, told him that I wasn't going to listen to anything that he had to say.
I would work out the visitation and that we would work it out that way.
Then the attorney, not the judge, sent me a notice of a hearing.
I ignored that hearing and did not go.
It was not a subpoena.
The judge did not sign it for me to be there.
It was just the attorney telling me to go to court on this date.
I did not go.
I returned that to the sheriff's office.
Thursday morning on the 23rd.
No, that was his wife's attorney.
Right.
Okay.
Excellent, I mean.
Okay.
So it's just like me calling you up and saying, hey, you've got to be in court down there tomorrow.
Right.
That's what it was.
And I returned that to the sheriff's office.
Thursday morning on the 23rd of February, we were still in bed.
It was just a little after 8 o'clock in the morning.
The phone rang.
It was the sheriff.
He said, this is the sheriff.
This is Sheriff So-and-so from Ripley County.
I'd like to speak to Mark.
I'd like to see you outside in 30 seconds.
And they had come two weeks prior to that and tried to bluff me into giving over my kids to them and said that they would use force.
They didn't at that time because they didn't have anything.
They didn't have a warrant.
They didn't have anything to take the kids.
They were just trying to scare me and to give them over just like they do many people around here.
And then... The only difference is most people give in.
Exactly.
And that's what we have found to be very effective is just to go ahead and challenge them.
So within 30 seconds my wife was on the phone calling first her dad who is my pastor at a local independent Baptist church.
Did call some of our militia people once he got here.
He was the only one that was able to get through.
When I went upstairs, I observed that the roadblocks were already up.
However, when he came up here, they pulled the cars off and let him through.
And they were only acting on a risk of body attachment.
They already had all the units that were here and more on the way.
Why they wanted to use this type of show of force is beyond me because I haven't so much as a speeding ticket.
I've never been arrested for anything.
I've never been arrested for a DUI.
There's nothing on my record.
There's nothing on my military record.
It is... So what happened then?
So once my pastor got through, we started calling around to let people know what was going on.
Members of our militia, I had called them to come and stand with me because we had Agreed that we would stand with each other in court or on other issues, just stand and body.
They were coming unarmed and they came here willingly.
They weren't able to get through the police lines because the roadblocks were out quite a ways from the house.
So they parked their vehicles, three men, and they came through the woods.
They were the only ones that we were able to get a hold of before they cut our phones off.
We had also gotten in touch with My wife's grandparents in Oklahoma.
They belonged to a militia.
They contacted their militia leader who contacted Linda Thompson.
My brother-in-law and sister-in-law were on the phone because they were left at home and they were calling the militia in Philadelphia and some other family members and through that they were able to reach the militia in Montana who contacted Linda Thompson, I believe, in Indianapolis.
No, Oklahoma contacted me.
I didn't have any contact with Montana.
Montana had nothing to do with this, because if they had called me, I wouldn't have responded.
I'm sorry.
Okay.
That's some misinformation on my part there.
Just the Oklahoma militia then was able to get through to her, but then she got involved.
They had cut her phones off, and the negotiator had been calling and talking to different ones here in the house, trying to get me to come out.
What did they tell you?
They really didn't tell me a whole lot.
They didn't say that they had a warrant or anything.
They said they had a writ of body attachment.
Did you know what that was?
Not really.
Did they explain it to you?
No, they didn't.
We have a legal dictionary here and we looked that up and tried to figure out from what that was.
So what did they say would happen if you did not come out?
They didn't really threaten me or anything or say anything was going to happen, but they said this problem was not going to go away.
After talking to some of our men who were on the outside there, near the roadblocks, the police were determined that they were not going to leave here until they had me.
Now, all that had happened was that I had missed that court hearing, which was told to me, I was told to be there by her attorney.
Not by a judge or anything like that.
But they did threaten you.
I mean, you looked out the window.
What did you see?
When I looked out the window, there were two county cars in front of the house that were blocking the roads.
There were two additional county cars to my left that were blocking the road another half a mile from my house.
We live out in the country.
But who was there?
The county police was there.
Nobody, really, to hold back.
I couldn't see.
No, no.
You're missing my whole point.
Who was outside?
What did you see when you looked outside?
A bunch of kids playing on the corner?
What?
All I could see was state police and county police cars and also the SWAT team.
Were they armed?
Response team, yes.
They were all heavily armed.
Were they holding weapons in their hands?
I didn't see any weapons in their hands until I saw the response team pulling out from the woods.
I saw a clip of that on the news and I still have that.
They had high-powered sniper rifles.
The deputies were all carrying their standard 9mm.
As far as the state goes, I couldn't see exactly what they had because they stayed far back from the house.
Did you feel threatened?
We felt very threatened.
Did you feel that your life was in danger?
Not only my life, but the lives of innocent people.
My father-in-law and mother-in-law were in the house.
So in order to get your children and give them to your wife, they were ready to kill everybody?
They were ready to kill anyone and everyone in this house.
What kind of a world is that?
What kind of law is that?
That's what we would like to know.
We'd like to know what all of this is about.
We didn't realize that anyone knew that we were even involved in the militia, and yet Well, it has nothing to do with militia.
I know what it's all about.
Everybody that reads our new newspaper, Veritas, will know what it's all about.
And I think Linda knows what it's all about.
So here you are in a house surrounded by people with guns and snipers in the woods and roadblocks out for several miles and nobody able to get through to you.
Did your friends get through the woods to your house?
Yes.
Three men from our militia group got through the house.
They came to the field.
Sometimes they had to crawl, but they made it through.
It was raining earlier that morning.
Some of them were pretty soaking wet when they got here.
We got them dried off and they just came to make a stand.
They came without arms to stand against those that prepared to use theirs.
Wow.
This is incredible.
I do have weapons, but they were all put away.
Mine wouldn't have been.
It is very hard to keep things put down when people are pointing weapons at you.
Well, I can tell you for sure.
Mine wouldn't have been put away.
Mine would have been ready in case they decided to use theirs.
But that was your decision to make, and you made that decision, and so somebody got hold of Linda, and then what was happening with you in the house?
How were you handling this, and what were you prepared to do?
Well, we had determined earlier that morning, we're Christians, and we had prayed about it.
We thought that this was just not the time to use arms, that God would use a different way to end this problem, and He did.
He used the militia to work this out peacefully.
Um, had they shot into the house, it would have been a different story, uh, because we would have not set back and let them shoot into the house.
We would have got our weapons out and we would have fired back.
Um, however, if they would have just simply came and kicked the doors in, uh, and wanted to take me forcibly like that, I would have, I would have gone and then, then sued the pants off of them for, uh, uh, wrongful entry of the house, not having a felony warrant or anything like that.
But we were prepared to use force if they used deadly force against us, which we would hope that we've not had to do.
And because things worked out the way that they didn't when once Linda Thompson got involved and the others there that were involved with the militia in the state and county realized what was going on and she was able to talk to the judge.
It is unbelievable to think that all these forces were here And all these people were here and they would just put their toys back in their cars and they would leave and not even stop by the house, not come into the house, not search the house.
I've not been into the court since.
There's no hearing set for me.
It is amazing that something like this could just die down like this without any explanation.
Today I was looking in the local newspaper where they list Everything, every call that the police have been out on, however, that one was left out of the report.
Oh, of course.
They don't want anything dangling which you can use to sue them with.
And if I were you, I'd be filing lawsuit after lawsuit and Title 42 actions against every one of these people.
The police are just mindless robots.
They don't think anymore.
They're supposed to enforce the law.
They don't even know what it is.
They don't know when they're enforcing the law or acting under the color of law.
And quite frankly, from my talks and encounters with police officers within the last few years, they don't give a damn.
They're chosen through a psychological profile that enables these kinds of things to happen.
They are following the orders of their superiors and judges who know full well that they're violating the law and acting under color of law.
And the police just do what they're told.
That's right.
And they're willing to kill people.
And when it's all over, even if they know they're wrong, they'll get in their car and drive away, and you won't get any apologies or anything.
Those are not Americans.
Right.
I don't believe that they are.
And I have some people on the outside that were talking to the police, and some of them admitted that they didn't want to be there.
However, they did participate.
And many people say that.
Sure.
They're afraid they'll lose their little, paltry little paycheck they're willing to sell their country down the tubes for a couple thousand dollars a month.
Yeah, they'll have to turn their car in and lose their benefits of driving that nice.
Yeah, and plus they won't be able to carry that penis on their hip anymore.
Exactly.
One of the fringe benefits that they have.
Right.
I don't pull any punches, sorry folks, but I tell it just exactly like it is.
And those of you that have been listening to The Hour of the Time long enough, you know that.
Linda, are you there?
You betcha!
When you got into this, what did you hear?
What were you told?
Well, I got called, first of all, by the grandparents' commander in Oklahoma.
And they were, obviously, the grandparents were on the line and the commander was on the line.
And the grandparents told me that they knew the house was surrounded by armed men, policemen of some sort.
They didn't really know what was going on, but the phones had been cut off.
And, of course, my first thought was Waco.
You know, this was identical, other than they hadn't broken into the house.
They had the house surrounded.
They weren't letting the people use the phones.
No one could talk to them.
They weren't letting anyone in.
You know, it was another Waco just starting, is what it was.
I said, oh no, not again.
Not in this country.
And I got on the phone and called the county sheriff and the State police.
I got the county sheriff first and was telling them that the family had asked me to represent the family inside and that it was against the law for them to cut the phones off and to refuse to allow them to have counsel.
Whenever you're unable to leave the control of the police, you are entitled to counsel.
That's a Sixth Amendment protected right.
And it's a Fifth Amendment protected right.
When you're not free to leave the control of the police, you are under arrest.
Mm-hmm.
And you are entitled to counsel.
Well, I said this to the Sheriff's Department, and they hung up on me the first couple of times.
And I kept calling them back, and they finally told me to call the state police.
I said, well, what does the state police have to do with this?
It's a county court action, from what I could tell.
By that point, I had gotten a few little details.
The state police were fairly non-responsive, didn't want to talk to me.
Eventually, we were making all kinds of phone calls.
I was able to... For some reason, I was able to call right into the house.
I had asked the police repeatedly to turn the phones back on, so I don't know if they did or not.
We kind of suspect my phone is so bugged that it rang through like a cop phone, actually.
Because when we got off the line after all this was over, every phone in our office started ringing without the lights coming on, and there was nobody on the line.
But something weird was going on with phones.
Anyway, we got through to the people in the house, and I was able to set up a three-way conversation between them and the grandparents in Oklahoma.
And I could put them on hold and they could talk, sort of, to each other, and then I could call the police agencies.
So they were keeping the communications going between the militia in Oklahoma and themselves on the phone, and I was calling the state police and the county sheriff, and eventually, They put a hostage negotiator from the SWAT team on the phone.
Eventually he just called me and started talking and I said, I'm trying to get the judge.
Don't you all do anything until I get the judge.
And we did finally get the judge.
As a hostage negotiator I had talked to Mark and told him that Mark was concerned that if he surrendered This was simply a ruse to get his children.
That they were going to take him out of the house, put him in jail, and go in and snatch his kids.
That's exactly what they probably would have done.
Exactly.
And I said, we're not willing to concede this at all.
He is not going to come out until we have an assurance that that is not going to happen.
And I'm not going to take your word for it.
I want the judge to tell me that.
So I did finally get the judge on the phone.
And the judge actually was really very, very decent.
And he had Waco on the mind too.
I don't think he expected all this to happen.
And what actually seems to have caused it was the ex-wife's attorney.
When he gave this writ to the sheriff, he told the sheriff that Mark was a member of the militia and he was armed and dangerous.
And then the sheriff took it from there and went nuts.
But, you know, the opposing counsel caused almost all of this trouble simply because he wanted his attorney fees.
A lot of times attorneys figure if they can get enough leverage against you in court, you know, just all the ex-wife really wanted was a little visitation, a little more than she had.
That's all she really wanted.
So her attorney goes in and files for custody, thinking that'll scare Mark into cooperating and paying attorney fees.
But she didn't want custody at all.
She had no interest in custody.
But this is the kind of thing this attorney had done from the beginning, which escalated this thing to the point that then he had to make it even a little worse by telling the sheriff this outright fabrication that Mark was dangerous.
So at the point I came into it, he was already surrounded by all these people.
We called all the media in the local area, and one of our militia members is a helicopter pilot for one of the TV stations nearby, and he was not sent out to film it, but he made sure to fly the helicopter over several times so that the police would see the call letters on the side.
Where was he when I was looking for a helicopter pilot with guts down in Waco, Texas?
Well, no, I didn't know him then.
He is a member of the militia now.
You know a lot of the militias have formed since Waco.
Yes.
So, in any event, he flew over first and then two TV crews got there and a radio station up here covered live, did live coverage as it was going on.
So we made sure that they knew that they were in the spotlight and that everybody in town was watching them, that the whole state was watching them for that matter.
And the hostage negotiator apparently knew that I was militia.
Because I found out from the judge later that the judge knew I was militia too.
And they had to go home.
And what we agreed on, what I promised the judge to get him to do this was That Mark would appear at a hearing if he would set a date, but I asked him to set it a little bit in the future so that we would have time to negotiate with the ex-wife and her attorney.
And so he set it for the following week.
He gave us a week pretty much to negotiate.
And then we met with the pastor and the ex-wife, her attorney, and they mediated an agreement.
Okay, don't go away.
completely reversed everything, completely undid everything the judge had done.
Mark has custody of this kid now, the ex-wife, has to pay some medical bills, and she has to pay her own attorney fees, and that's the way it'll be from now on.
And the judge signed that as an order.
Okay, don't go away.
We'll be right back after this short pause.
We'll be right back.
What I want you to do, and what I'm going to trust you to do, is call Swiss America Trading.
We have some problems getting on here in the beginning.
What I want you to do, what I'm going to trust you to do, is call Swiss America Trading.
Tell them that you're a steady listener to the Hour of the Time with William Cooper.
You'll get red carpet treatment.
They'll call you back and talk to you about how you can get your hands on some real money.
Thank you.
While you're at it, thank them for sponsoring the Hour of the Time, because if they didn't, you wouldn't be listening to it, folks, unless I win the lottery tomorrow.
So do that.
1-800-289-2646.
That's 1-800-289-2646.
Do it now.
You'll be glad that you did.
He always sang, raggedy music to the Cadillac.
He swang back and forward in the paddle of a horse.
Then he sent the baited gators and the such-a-body meter to the roar.
He'll repeat her how they run.
When he hears the bell of gun because the western folks all know.
Well, we're back.
Linda?
Yeah?
Carry on.
Yeah, we're back.
Linda?
Yeah.
Carry on.
Well, the one good thing that came out of this was that the state police and the SWAT teams and the hostage negotiator all knew that they were dealing with militia.
They all were concerned that the militias were around.
They were concerned that they were dealing directly with a hostage negotiator, because I felt like the Adams were the hostages.
And they clearly were.
I mean, they were surrounded.
There were five children in that house.
These were, you know, two of them were supposedly the kids they were there to do, you know, to get.
But they were willing to kill all five of these kids.
Well, that's how low we've sunk, and that's how stupid they are, but there's a purpose to it.
The purpose is to show overwhelming force, even if you have to kill everybody for absolutely nothing, in order to terrorize the rest of the population into not Standing up against the New World Order.
And that's really what it's all about.
Yeah, and what happened here was we took a stand, we mobilized, well we mobilized three state militias.
We had, well I'm on the phone talking to the judges and the state police and then to Mark and to the Oklahoma people and we had, I was just playing telephone tag here in our other offices.
Stella was calling the news media.
Al was calling various militia units and within a matter of about ten minutes we had three different state militias on alert.
We had three crisis response teams ready and gone, you know.
Then we had here local, well we had all the media in the local area contacted because we've got a list of the media in our areas.
And that's something I would suggest all the militias do.
Well, first they have to be legal militias and we need to talk about that because the truth is a lot of militias out there are not legal militias and the first thing they have to do to establish themselves as legal militias is post a public notice that they are forming as a legal militia And hold a drill.
And the drill has to be in public, somewhere.
That establishes them as a legal militia.
Now, any judge that understands the law, and anybody who really understands the common law, knows that when a militia is legally called up by, you know, a militia can be called up by any credible person in the community.
When a militia is legally called up to enforce the law against someone who is breaking the law or operating under the color of the law, the militia then becomes the only legal police.
And I think these guys understand that, believe it or not.
I've been rather impressed with the fact that they understand exactly what we're doing here.
In all truthfulness, the people that I dealt with, the judge and the state police hostage negotiator, not the sheriff's department particularly, but I was only dealing with peons pretty much there, but in all truthfulness, they were very professional. but in all truthfulness, they were very professional.
They recognized that they were dealing with militia.
They recognized the situation.
And as a result, common sense prevailed.
Linda, I've got to take you back a minute.
Yeah.
They were not professional.
They were there illegally operating under the color of law to do something that they should not have been doing, and that's not professional.
Don't give these people credit when they don't deserve it.
Well, I mean in the negotiation process.
They didn't take a stupid approach.
They were not hot-headed.
They weren't crazed.
You know, the people that I was talking to.
One of the state police said that they had been called up on false pretences because, and they had been.
See, the state police have got a right to rely on what they're told.
If a sheriff calls them up and says, hey, we're going out on this, you know, this dangerous desperado that's crazy and has guns, they don't have any way to know any different.
No, they don't have the right to do that.
That was decided at Nuremberg.
All people responding to orders of superiors must ensure that the orders that they are responding to and carrying out are legal or lawful orders.
If they are not, they are bound by law to refuse to carry them out.
That's established in the law of the land and in international law, and Nuremberg proves that beyond any shadow of a doubt.
Well, that's a great point.
How would the state police, that's something we probably need to educate these policemen on, how would the state police then go about finding out whether a sheriff's lying to them or not?
Because in this case, that's pretty much what happened.
Well, we have to do it.
Because according to the precedent set at Nuremberg, if they commit a crime following an order, they are a criminal and can be executed if they kill somebody during that criminal act.
And I am so glad that didn't happen.
Well, I'm so glad, too.
But, you know, I feel kind of funny telling you these things when I'm not an attorney and you are.
Well, but the problem is our laws have been perverted because That may be established at Nuremberg, but you might remember it was illegal to use CS gas in wartime.
No, it wasn't.
No, it was not.
That's a lie perpetrated for some reason.
It was not.
We had CS gas in Vietnam, and it was used in Vietnam.
But the treaty was signed January 6th of the year that the Branch Davidians was raided.
So during Vietnam, it was legal.
But as of January 6th of 1993, are we still on the air?
Yes.
I just heard something click.
As of January 6th of 1993, the year the Branch Divisions were raided, two months before they were raided, it was made illegal for wartime use.
Linda, let me tell you about that.
It was made legal.
Linda.
It was used here.
Linda, that's bullshit.
In war, troops do what they have to do.
It was illegal, according to the Geneva Convention, to use .50 caliber machine guns against personnel in Vietnam, yet we used them every single day.
So forget all of this legal stuff in war.
In war people use whatever they can to stay alive and do whatever they can to win the war.
I understand that.
That's all baloney.
The point I'm making is, even though things are outlawed for wartime, They're still perfectly legal to do to American citizens.
Well, all of this is illegal.
You don't have to cite illegality in wartime.
It's illegal to do any of the things that they did in Waco or to this young man that we're talking to tonight.
And it doesn't make any difference whether it's legal to do it in war or not.
And it's because the law has become perverted.
There is no reason on earth that our state police should have armored personnel carriers and tanks, but the Indiana State Police I've got a Soviet armored personnel carrier.
Sure.
This is what it's become.
We've become a police state.
That's exactly right.
And it's going to get worse and worse and worse.
And we know that.
But there is still some hope because we are dealing with ordinary people.
You know, usually our neighbors if we keep it on a state and local level.
And that's why I think the judge was so cooperative because he realized he was dealing with his neighbors.
He was accountable to these people.
And he didn't want to see another Waco.
So if, instead of approaching something immediately with guns, this would be my suggestion.
First, try to head it off.
But don't try to head it off and not be prepared to back it up.
Because we were prepared to back this up.
I was not, you know, completely... In fact, I had about a 40% chance, I thought, that this would end peacefully.
I really thought this was going to be the big one.
And that we were going to have to come in there with militia and arms.
And we were prepared to do that.
That's all there is to it.
We were absolutely prepared to do that.
But it was never mentioned.
We didn't threaten the police with that.
We didn't threaten the judge with that at all.
We tried to calmly discuss this with them, and that worked.
Good.
That's wonderful.
I have to commend you and everybody that was involved in this.
Oh, I think you can count Mark and so forth.
The other people all had great presence of mind.
They kept the children away from the windows.
They didn't, you know, get any arms out or threaten any policemen with any arms.
So they came out of this smelling like a rose, you know, just beautifully because they were calm.
They were rational.
They were the most rational people out there.
That's the astounding thing.
So, it was just appalling to me that this kind of thing could be done.
This is a small town.
This is Cross Plains, Indiana.
What's the population there, Mark?
You could probably count them on just a few of the neighbors' hands.
Probably not too many.
A couple hundred, maybe.
So, this is a... They probably had more cops there than they had the entire population of that town.
Yeah.
Well, that's what it's come down to.
Mark, I want to thank you for telling your story.
Oh, we certainly appreciate your time.
When you see those people there, please tell them that I said they'd done good and I think most of the listeners and most Americans would think so too.
Okay, thank you.
Also, I'm really impressed that your friends took the chances that they did to get in there with you in case something happened and they were needed.
Yes, it was good for us to see and we sat here in the house and waited and wondered where everyone was at.
We knew that the police were told to arrest anyone that was trying to come in.
There were four states total involved in this thing.
There was no question.
We didn't have anybody asking questions.
Maybe they had already gotten arrested, and it was great for us to see them, as we were looking out the back windows with the binoculars, see them coming through the field and just know that they would go to that extent, because we would for them.
There were four states total involved in this thing.
There was no question.
We didn't have anybody asking questions.
We didn't have anybody doing anything stupid.
All of the militias were there and ready, and it was tremendous.
This was definitely a perfect example of the use of the militia.
It was great.
And this is the kind of thing that we need to get as much information out about this as we possibly can to counteract this negative media.
Well, let's talk about a little of the negative things that come along.
Mark, I want to thank you for being a guest and I'm going to carry on with Linda for a little while here.
Perfect.
Montana to give people an example of what they should not do.
For the last week or so, we have been receiving faxes from Montana saying that people were arrested illegally, that the militia of Montana had taken over a courthouse.
And remember, folks, I've warned you about the militia of Montana and John Trotman and all of that group up there for over a year now.
That these people are not playing straight with us and that they're putting out disinformation and just flat out lying.
Uh, Linda, you want to talk about that?
What was going on up there?
Sure.
Well, I got some of the same facts as you did.
For Thursday and Friday, the week before last, or last week, I got notices from Joe Holland of North American Freedom Council, or North American something, saying that the militia of Montana had seized a courthouse in Ravalli or Ravilli, Montana.
And of course, if they had seized the courthouse, that would have been all over the news because they would have loved to have smeared the militia with that.
Oh yeah, they would have just gone to town on all of us, wouldn't they?
Yeah, so I knew that there hadn't been any courthouse seizures, but I figured this was going to be some bad PR somewhere.
Somebody trying to make the militia look bad.
And sure enough, what this was really about, there was a fella named Stanton that was arrested last year.
He's in a group called the Free Men in Montana.
And it's a handful of people.
It's about 15 or 20 people that are pretty much just redneck hillbillies.
And they had been terrorizing the town that they were in.
They didn't claim to be militia.
They claimed to be free men.
And they are pretty much the spirit.
Are you there?
I'm here.
Oh, I don't know what happened.
Just ignore that.
You ought to be used to clicks on the phone.
Well, they're pretty much the...
They're filling the role that the ADL likes to describe the militia, you know, as redneck crazies with guns.
That are, you know, Nazis or racists or whatever.
These are the guys making sure that that image gets out to the public because they were shown on TV on NBC one night in a special and none of them bothered to even dress nice.
you know they all just looked real scruffy and had things to say that were pretty obnoxious.
You know they made a point of just being as obnoxious as they could instead of trying to portray any kind of decent public image.
And I thought well who are these guys?
And what they were doing was threatening the local sheriff.
They didn't like the way the town was being run and one of the guys, Stanton, put out a bounty.
He offered a million dollar bounty for anyone that would bring him the head of the sheriff.
Basically, he was offering a reward for somebody to kill the local.
So how'd Trachman and his group get mixed up in this?
Well, since they're in Montana, these guys were claiming to be militia, when Stanton went to court on this, he was convicted in a jury trial.
So that means that 12 people from his area heard the evidence and decided he was guilty of these charges.
Uh-huh.
And then some other people got involved filing all this stuff that some of the groups like to do with filing liens on the judges and so on.
Sometime when we have more time I'd like to explain why that is not appropriate.
Yeah, but we don't have that much time left so I'd prefer to stick on the subject.
Okay, well all these people were filing various things with the court and in the meantime some of the freemen were threatening the court.
They were coming in there threatening the clerk, threatening the judges, just making threats.
And this is where the announcements came out that they had seized the courthouse.
They weren't actually seizing the courthouse, they were threatening people up there.
Then apparently a couple of Trachman's people went up and were going to provide some kind of backup or help them out and they got arrested in the process and they claimed to be Freeman, members of the same group.
They were arrested.
Well then Trachman and a fellow with him went up to check on the guys that had been arrested and they got arrested too.
And they got arrested because they went up there with guns.
Now, they're telling this story as if they were attacked, but they were not attacked in the sense that they provoked this stuff.
They've been threatening people for days up there, and then they show up with guns.
And they said, oh, we didn't have any guns.
Well, yes, they did, because there's a full-page picture.
They had seven rifles, SKSs for the most part, and it averaged out to two guns apiece, one rifle and one handgun, for the seven guys that were arrested.
So yeah, they were armed, and yeah, they were not doing anything that was a legitimate militia function, because it's not a legitimate militia function to go up and threaten courthouse personnel.
In a town that size, it's 2,100 people.
If you're unhappy with the judge and you're unhappy with the clerk, you can get them impeached.
2,100 people, it is not that hard.
You don't need to go up and start scaring everybody in the town.
And the comments from the townspeople up there was one of just wide relief that these guys were arrested because they were viewed as kooks and they were not functioning as a militia.
Nothing that they did had any legitimate militia function.
So now we've got this Fletcher fella that has been putting out disinformation for over a year with the Montana militia.
I called him about six months ago because they kept putting out Things saying that there were crematoriums at Amtrak and I want you to know there are no crematoriums at the Amtrak station here in Indiana.
They also claim there were shackles in the train cars.
There are no shackles in the train cars.
Things like that.
I called them up and I said, why are you putting out this bogus nonsense?
Why do you put out these reports of thousands of U.N.
troops when that's not true?
And Bob Fletcher himself said, well, we think it's better to put it out than to not put it out.
I said, well, you need to check it out because you cry wolf enough, nobody's ever going to believe you.
Maybe that's their whole purpose.
And that does seem to be their purpose.
Well, I found out Bob Fletcher let CIA in the 80s use his toy store as a cover for gun and drug running.
They were all busted, and he turned out state's evidence and lost all of his stuff.
He tells the story as if it was the federal government taking advantage of him.
But the fact of the matter is he got caught, and of course he lost his stuff.
And isn't that too bad?
But it means he's compromised.
It means that he has worked with the CIA, the very people that we're fighting.
It means he's an agent provocateur, working undercover, and he's a snitch, right?
Yep.
And there's another fellow that was arrested with these guys.
His name is Lopez, and that's not his real name.
He apparently ran some kind of chop shop out in California, was never prosecuted for it, was able to move to Montana and open a brand-new car business or truck-selling business with all these new trucks and so forth, plenty of money, and no visible means of support.
And when he was arrested, they let him go.
So it looks to me like you've got more than one agent provocateur out there, and it's definitely not a militia function.
No one should be going out there to help these fellows.
They were acting like thugs, and they got treated like thugs should be treated.
They're where they belong.
Well, I've warned you folks for months, for over a year, for longer than that, in fact.
I've warned you for a long, long time about these people.
They're not legitimate.
Everything I've seen come out of the militia of Montana has been disinformation, misinformation, lies, and BS at various levels.
Don't you think it's convenient that the ADL has started this militia disinformation campaign where they say that we're all neo-Nazis and racists, but they can't find anybody to illustrate their point for them, and then Bobo Grimes goes on TV with his anti-Jewish literature to be interviewed by NBC, so and then Bobo Grimes goes on TV with his anti-Jewish literature to be interviewed by NBC, so now they've got their man up there to point for them, and then along come people like the Truncman to make the other point that they're armed and dangerous and crazy,
Well, that's exactly the role these people are serving.
And it has nothing to do with militia activity.
It has everything to do with undermining the militia.
It has everything to do with furthering the destruction of this nation and weakening our position of ever getting it back.
Linda, I faxed you something today.
What was it?
That was your newspaper and it is wonderful.
Everybody's got to get a copy of it.
It's informative.
It's a good paper.
Well, thank you.
It wasn't really me.
I did a little bit on it, but Bart Chow and Michael Aponte did all of the work.
In fact, they're still here working and will be working late into the night.
Darby's playing the cymbals on it.
Well, they'll get to see that when they get it.
I think they'll like it.
Were you surprised?
I was very surprised.
And it's a good paper.
It's full of good information.
I'm not through reading it yet.
And you've got a full-sized newspaper shrunk down to an eight and a half by eleven paper-sized fax to you, so it's probably pretty hard to read.
Oh, I think your lead story is dynamite.
Well, thank you.
Okay, folks.
Thank you, Linda.
And everybody's been asking about you and wanting to hear you, and they certainly got to do that tonight.
And, you know, I want to apologize for jumping in and sort of being a little overbearing tonight, but there's just some things that I can't stand.
No, you've got to be that way.
It's the only way to sound sense into us, you know that?
Well, I try.
And I know you try.
And I know you're very successful.
And, as I said before, as far as I'm concerned, you've got more guts than most men in this country.
And, folks, I've said this before, too.
The reason that Linda comes under so much attack is because she is hurting our enemies so, so effectively that they would do anything to put her out of commission.
Well, goodnight Linda, and we'll try to get you back on here soon.
or truckman in jail.
Which hurt him worse?
Well, of course you did.
Exactly.
That's right.
They know it.
Well, good night, Linda.
Good night.
And we'll try to get you back on here soon.
Thanks.
Bye-bye.
And, folks, good night.
And God bless each and every single one of you.
The last of the silver screen carabels The last of the fast-dying breeze
The last of the crazy things Six guns a-blazin', God knows this is what America still needs.
The last of the Silver Street Cowboys, standing tall for what he believes is right.
Don't push him around.
He's more than one billion pounds.
that he don't back down from a fight.
Law and trigger, we love you.
And only we make up our lives for the Saturdays of the Features.
We stand through both movies two times.
She and Lash and Wreck were our heroes And you could look with that in the end If we could just turn back the pages
And ride those old trails once again.
The last of the silver screen cowboys.
We settled the score with our fists.
Oh, he loved little babies.
Pretty women.
Slight ladies.
And he was only on a horse.
▲
Export Selection