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Dec. 26, 1994 - Bill Cooper
58:52
Joseph Bill, India
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Time Text
you you you you you you you you And I couldn't believe it couldn't bear the sea.
And I couldn't believe it.
And I couldn't believe it.
You are listening to the Hour of the Time.
I'm William Cooper.
Ladies and gentlemen, last week I told you about the United Nations flag flying above the courthouse in Gainesville, Florida.
And it seems that thousands and thousands of people called, and now they have announced that the flag is down, but don't get too complacent.
Representative Bob Casey of the Florida House of Representatives said to a meeting of citizens working to remove the United Nations flag that the U.N.
flag is down for now.
At approximately 8.15 p.m., Representative Casey stated that the city of Gainesville, Florida, had decided to remove the United Nations flag from display at least until a January 9, 1995, City Commission meeting, at which time A policy will be proposed for flying of flags on city property.
So, on January the 9th, start calling again the numbers that we gave you before, and I'll try to get those to you again before January the 9th.
For those of you living in Florida, the meeting will be at 6 p.m.
January the 9th, 1995 at City Hall in Gainesville, Florida.
6 p.m.
January the 9th, 1995 at City Hall.
And we still need your protest of the United Nations flag and your support at that Commission meeting.
And I'll tell you, from the response that they got, from the listeners of this program, ladies and gentlemen, you can count your lucky stars.
Speaking of lucky, we're lucky to have Toland's favorite weather troll, our very own Roly-Poly Trolly!
Troll weather!
Take it away, Roly.
Thanks, Lucky Troll.
Roly-Poly Trolly here with today's forecast.
Hey, Roly, do you think you can stop eating long enough to tell us about the weather?
Boy, look at the size of that maple-stacked dungeon.
They don't call him Roly-Poly for nothing.
Sorry guys, but I'm starving.
I haven't eaten anything for 20 minutes.
That's not ice cream anyone?
I'm trying to cut down.
Anyway, on to the weather.
This morning will be sunny, with temperatures trolling into the high 70s.
Later, sun will give way to clouds, with a 40% chance of rain.
Towers will be heavy tonight.
I mean, it's gonna be raining cats and trolls.
So make sure you take your umbrellas with you.
Tomorrow is cold.
How cold is it?
It'll be so cold, all the trolls will be wearing mufflers in their bellies.
I don't get it.
But seriously, rest warmly and keep listening for further updates.
Back to you, Rock N' Troll and Terry!
Sounds like a troll cold fell to me!
What do you say we take a trip down to the tropical coal islands for a little music by the beach balls?
Here's Kokomo.
Aruba, Jamaica, ooh, I wanna pick ya.
Bermuda, Bahama, come on, pretty mama.
Here I go, on Tito, A-L-E-Y-O-P-E-T-O. Jamaica, off the Florida Keys.
There's a place called Kokomo.
That's where the trolls all go.
They get away from it all.
Oh boy, it's a place.
Swinging in the sand.
Soft as a brick, melting in your hand.
Well, I'd like to do that, folks, but I can't.
Well, I'd like to do that, folks, but I can't.
I have a good friend, and he and I have been, well, we spent a lot of hours on the telephone talking.
We're both bibliophiles, which, for those of you who may not have heard that term before, means we love books.
We both have huge, gigantic, extensive libraries, and we think along many of the same lines.
We do disagree on some things, but that's fine.
Have you ever had the itch just that you had to get out, you had to go somewhere and you had to do something?
Well, thank you very much, Bill.
I got that itch about six months ago, called me up and said, "I'm leaving, Bill, and I don't know when I'll be back, but I'm going to India and I'm going to be there until I scratch this itch." So he left.
And that was six months ago and I just got a call this afternoon that he has returned and his name is Joseph Gill.
Joseph, welcome to the Hour of the Time.
Well, thank you very much, Bill.
It's an honor to be on your show.
Well, it's an honor to have you and I'm glad you're back.
I missed you and probably a lot of other people missed you also.
You can't call somebody who's riding on a public bus in India or trekking across a ridge in Nepal.
Tell us about your trip.
That's true.
Just as an aside, we were talking this afternoon about the militia and I'd like to tell you that Phil Donahue's show is going to have a special on the militia tomorrow.
I thought your listeners might be interested in that, some show that he's done.
Anyway, about last May I got the itch, and I'd been thinking about it for several years, to go to India.
I'd been there before, but I'd never spent much time there.
India is about 1.25 million square miles, and the United States is about 3.5 million square miles, but they have 925 million people.
Which means there's about 740 people per square mile.
And in the United States, there's 260 million people, and that means only 72 people per square mile.
So that's about one-tenth.
So the difference in population is significant.
Per square mile.
Yeah.
So, yeah, it's significant.
And yet, over there, their average wage is about $350 per year, and ours is $18,700 per year.
But I sat down with an Indian, and I sat down with three people that had each spent two years traveling in India, each, and I worked out a schedule for myself so that I could go all around India on a public bus and not miss a thing.
Of course, that's impossible, but I did as close as I could to it.
Not only did you not miss much, but you actually found a few things that are off the beaten track that nobody knew anything about.
Well, I went to about 20% more places than these people had suggested.
I was going along and I found out about new places, new valleys that had been opened up in Ladakh in northern India.
But I started out in New Delhi May 25th and went Over to Amritsar, which is the Golden Temple, and that's where the Sikh sect has their main temple.
And it was very, very interesting.
I felt so welcome there.
The Sikh people, contrary to popular belief, are extremely welcoming people, people that are disbelievers.
And so I found the same with the Muslim people.
What we hear about on the news media about the the Muslims and the Sikhs and the Hindus and whatever.
We hear all these things about fundamentalists and radicals, and they constitute about 2% or 3% of the people that go to the different religions.
But the news media wants us to think that they're all that way.
They conquer.
They divide and conquer.
They make it an issue whether you're black or Chinese or Muslim.
They have to put a label on anything, and that is just to keep us all busy chasing our tails.
Then there's another old adage that if you go to India, it's very spiritual in India and in the West it's very material.
And I can tell you after traveling around the length and breadth of India, some 20,000 miles on a public bus, that is not true.
It's every bit as material in India as it is here.
It's just different religions.
I went up to Kashmir, which is on the Chinese border and Pakistan border, and I stayed on Dal Lake in a houseboat.
I stayed in a gorgeous houseboat with a four-poster bed, a Kashmir rug, and what was it?
Breakfast and dinner.
And it cost me a dollar a day.
Wow.
Absolutely fantastic.
My whole trip for six months going all around India, almost 20,000 miles on a public bus, eating, lodging, entertainment, and buying a few things cost me a total of, what do you think, Bill?
$20,000.
Wow.
That is just incredible.
So when you're rich and famous and you can travel the world, you can travel it cheaper than I can just stay at home here in Hawaii.
You know, I bet there's a lot of people out there scratching their heads.
I bet the thought for a second seriously entered their head to go somewhere where they could have two meals in a four-poster bed for a dollar a day.
That's incredible.
And it was absolutely fantastically first class with a view of the Himalaya Mountains all around the lake, some of them up to 20,000 feet high, and absolutely very quiet and very mystical with floating gardens.
And there were just hundreds of eagles that nested around the lake.
It was just absolutely a fabulous place to stay.
The only problem is that Kashmir is interested in pulling away from India.
So the Indian army has been up there for the last ten years, and in the last ten years they've killed 40,000 people.
And that's not on the news, is it?
No, no.
Unlike what you... Well, it's not even in their news.
In India, they're represented as, like they are here, radicals who want to be independent.
And basically what the Kashmiri people should be able to do is just vote and decide on their independence or whether they want to stay with India or whether they want to go to Pakistan.
But I personally saw the Indian army up there beating the hell out of people in the street, women and children.
And then they would report on the news that they were There were radicals, militants.
And in India, later on, in New Delhi, I saw a little skit on TV of this lady all dressed up with a robe with the name India across it and said, keep Mother India together.
And her right arm was being pulled by Kashmir and her left arm was being pulled by the Tamil, the people of the South that want to be independent as well.
So they're being touted on nationalism rather than The fact that people should be able to go their own way if they decide to.
That's sort of a really basic kindergarten type message too.
Well I think people are basically thinking along the kindergarten line.
People don't really, very few people get to the underlying meaning of it and so they go for all this government tripe easily.
Or they're illiterate or educated.
So it doesn't matter where you go in the world, sheeple are still sheeple.
That's true.
That's true.
When I was over there I used what's called the Lonely Planet Travel Guide, which was like the Bible that you carry when you go around India and it tells you all the places that you can stay and all of the historical background.
It's only about two inches thick and I went through the whole book.
But it's a good start if you want to travel in India, the Lonely Planet Travel Guide.
I spent about three months in the Himalayan Mountains and I went and stayed in some 13 You don't speak the language, do you Joe?
It's the Buddhist place where I stayed and studied all their symbolism, and I stayed there several days at each place and looked through their libraries.
There's some libraries that go back to 1,200, 1,300 years.
Wow.
I'm looking through all their illuminated manuscripts, and that was quite interesting.
You don't speak the language, do you, Joe?
No, no, but I understand the language of symbolism quite well.
Yes, you do.
At one point I spent about three hours talking to the teacher of the Dalai Lama.
And the teacher of the Dalai Lama was a very good teacher.
That must have been very interesting.
Well, it was very interesting because I spent most of the time talking to him about all the different symbolisms around the world and how all the different belief systems are all pretty much not similar, but they're exactly the same.
And the conversation with him started open, and then he put one hand over one side of his face, and then he put another hand over the other side of his face, and then he leaned forward, which really tells it all.
He said, I want to listen, but I don't want anybody else to hear.
And this was during the festival, and there were some 3,000 people there.
People kept coming up and wanting to talk to him, and he turned them away because he wanted to discuss this international symbolism.
I saw all over India.
The thing about studying symbolism in India, it's really easy because it's sticking out all over the place.
It's all over in their temples.
Say, for instance, the swastika.
I must have saw 10,000 or 15,000 swastikas all over India, and that had nothing to do with the Nazis.
The swastika was a symbol that was used hundreds and thousands of years ago to mean the four winds of the rotating sun.
And when it turns clockwise it's the male and it's the positive and when it turns counterclockwise it's the female and it's the negative.
Well that sure would have kept the ADL busy, wouldn't it?
Oh yeah!
It kept the ADL busy.
Then I also went down to Well, first I went to the Himalayas.
I spent about two and a half months there.
And then I went into Tibet twice.
And I went in there, just walked across the border, and went into several adjacent villages to the north of India.
Now, Tibet is the Communist Chinese occupied country now, isn't it?
Well, Tibet's quite interesting.
You know, the Dalai Lama used to be the religious and the governmental leader there.
He has all these Tibetan people that are following him and hoping that he'll, through his international diplomacy, you've heard about him running around and getting all kinds of awards, that he's going to be able to take his people back to Tibet.
This will not happen.
No.
In fact, they've... The Chinese are mining 140 rare earth minerals in Tibet that they can't get in their own part of the country.
They've brought in a tremendous Chinese population also, haven't they?
Chinese population is two and a half million.
The Tibetan population is 700,000.
Wow.
So the Chinese are not going to get up and leave.
It's unrealistic.
No, it's all over.
Years ago the Dalai Lama was invited back and he wouldn't go back.
He just likes to do this international diplomacy and he's a very nice person.
I've met him on several occasions, but he isn't thanking as much of his people as he should.
No.
And they need a home and if they want to go back to Tibet, they should be able to go back to Tibet.
You just have to be realistic.
Yeah.
You know, it's the way it is.
How did you get across the border, Joe?
I know that's... I walked.
That's extremely dangerous.
Did you... I left my camera back on the Indian side.
But to be truthful with you, it's a lot more interesting on the Indian side.
Because there's a whole area called Ladakh and Zanskar, which is in eastern Kashmir.
And that was one time part of Tibet.
So it's actually Tibet that hasn't been taken over by the Chinese.
The Chinese tried to in the late 50s to go into northern India and they carried on into the 60s.
So then I went into the west end of Nepal.
Which is practically unheard of.
Everybody goes over to Kathmandu, which is in the central northern part of Nepal.
And I went all the way across western Nepal.
I visited villages where they hadn't seen anybody there in a year, any tourist in a year.
And I walked north in the west part of Nepal and I met people that had never even seen motors before, let alone automobiles.
So you're talking about any kind of motor, any kind of engine?
Nothing.
Wow.
Yeah, and at night it was black.
Miles and miles of mountains and it was black.
There was nobody up there with lights of any kind.
I stayed with a goat herding family up there for about four days and I lived underground in this dugout and it was quite interesting.
It was quite interesting.
I learned an awful lot.
What a wonderful place to view the heavens if there were no... Oh, absolutely bright stars.
I see the satellites going over all the time, keeping an eye on things.
But those people, they're not too impressed with the New World Order.
Well, that's good.
They keep pushing their goats around in the mountains.
And it's very hard for me, as much as I've studied that subject, to keep any eye on the New World Order when I'm in the Sandskar Range in northern India and living with a goat herder.
But then I went all across Nepal, and I went over 16 rivers in a public bus, and none of them had bridges.
Wow.
So the bus was fording these rivers?
Yeah.
Buses are really tough.
I wouldn't believe this, but they made it up areas where four-wheel jeeps had to turn around and go back.
I saw the best scout four wheeled jeep trying to make it through this road and because of the diameter of the wheel they just couldn't make it up because the mud in the center of the road was 18 inches deep.
And buses were making it through this stuff?
Yes, buses were making it through this.
When I was going through the Himalayas I went over 400 rock slides.
All buses.
See in India everybody uses the buses.
Less than one half of one percent of the population has their own vehicles and it's probably lower than that.
So they don't have to pay hardly anything for road maintenance.
You know what you're saying is absolutely incredible.
You can go into any town in India any time in the morning and say I want to take a bus to here.
It leaves in five minutes.
Most it leaves in two hours.
You can get a bus anywhere.
So as archaic as the transportation is, as bad as the buses are, you can get from here to there really quickly and very effectively.
But some of them are very old buses, aren't they?
Oh yeah, but they keep running.
Those people are very resourceful.
It's like the old Model P. They get out the veiling wire and everybody in the bus pushes it.
You were telling me that you were traveling on one bus and actually had to open your umbrella and put it over your head because... That was in Nepal.
The buses were so old there that they had so many holes in the roof that I did the only logical thing.
When it started to rain I put my umbrella up inside the bus and everybody in the bus looked at me like I was crazy.
Within 15 minutes there were 15 umbrellas up in the bus and I took a picture of it.
It was kind of interesting.
Wow, I bet.
Yeah.
That's the kind of picture that you think you're going to see in National Geographic or something.
Oh, it was very interesting and driving around in the roads I was coming across from Ley to Manali and I was in the second highest pass in the world and a white rabbit came running across right in front of this truck and I was up in the back of the truck and a snow leopard came running after it.
Wow.
Snow leopards about 20 times rarer than a tiger.
Yeah, very rare animal.
It was quite a mystical experience because the driver himself, who made that run regularly, I don't know how he ever stayed alive doing it, but he did it, had never seen a snow leopard before.
And then when I went through western Nepal later, I was on top of a bus and I saw a tiger, about 700 pound tiger, walk in front of the bus in the middle of the night and the bus was going about the usual, about 10 miles an hour.
Because that's as fast as you can go on those.
This sounds like I'm interviewing some Englishman back in 1810 or something.
It's really interesting because there are very few travelers over there.
Most of the travelers over there are Europeans because it's a cheap ticket for them.
It's about a dollar a night.
Then when you get there it's very cheap and you go around and you see a completely different culture.
Things that are bothering you from wherever you're at, I mean, you're just completely engrossed in the country or there's no other way to be.
It's all around you.
You know, we've all seen these movies of trains in India with people piled in the train and out hanging out the windows and piled up on top of the cars.
Is that still?
Absolutely, 100% true.
The only thing is it doesn't tell you all the truth.
If you've seen them getting into a bus, it's hysterical.
They're going straight in.
Climbing in from two sides, they actually climb up on the roof and climb downward, inward.
Wow.
And one time I yelled at them, everybody smile!
And I took their picture and they all started laughing.
They'll even do that when they have an assigned seating.
When they have assigned seating, they'll do that.
And so when I got into Hyderabad, which is in central India, later on in the trip, I found out that the buses have the women go in the front.
The men go in the back and the bus is divided in half for the seating and the women are in the front and the men are in the back.
I said, "Well, this is wonderful.
Those men will learn how to get onto a bus and be polite and gentle and feminine.
They're going to get on this bus and they're going to teach these men manners." They were just as rough as the men.
In the bus the women were all fighting and scratching to get inside of the bus as if it was some kind of national emergency.
Yeah, like Tokyo Station in Japan for the trains.
Same thing.
Well, I hope it's not that bad.
Oh, it's bad.
They even have people they hire in Tokyo to push people inside the doors of the train when nobody else can get in.
Well, I've been to Tokyo, but I've never been in those trains.
That's incredible.
Across the whole length of Nepal, and I went up to Kathmandu, which is the capital, the whole entire country is Muslim.
And Hindu, with the exception of Kathmandu, which is Buddhist, so there's a lot of very interesting Buddhist temples there.
Do these people have friction between the religious groups?
Pardon me?
Is there friction between these groups?
No, no.
The Hindus are actually the most tolerant.
About 80% of the population of India is Hindu, and the rest are mostly Muslim and some Buddhist.
But most of the Buddhists are in Nepal, which is another country north, but they're almost considered one country between the two governments.
I mean, if you don't require a passport for the Indians to go to Nepal, they just can go across the border without any problem.
But there's not much friction except for what is generated by bad publicity, and inherently the Hindus are very tolerant of other belief systems.
I think that the Hindus are much more tolerant than any of the other religions that I've observed.
But yet they're very radical, they have all these different gods which all boil down to About two or three gods.
Different aspects that they show of the different gods.
Different faces of the same entity.
Right, right.
Like the three-faced Brahma of Vishnu and Shiva, which is their trinity.
But then I went from Kathmandu up to the border of China by bus and looked at Mount Everest.
Everest, incidentally, is named after the fellow who mapped India in the 1880s.
And it was absolutely fantastic to be surrounded by mountains that are 19,000 to 29,000 feet high.
Just awesome.
Just thousands of mountains.
Not hundreds, but thousands of mountains I saw in a period of three and a half months.
Thousands of mountains.
It's incredible.
Like a wall.
It's like trying to explain what the Grand Canyon looks like.
So, then I came from Kathmandu back down into India and I went to Varanasi, where they have what's famous for the Ganges that goes through there.
And they have what they call the Burning Ghats, where the people get cremated right on the edge of the river, and what remains is thrown into the Ganges.
There's an interesting kind of porpoise that lives there.
It's one of the two kinds of freshwater porpoise in the world.
One lives in the Amazon and one lives there in the Ganges.
They're pink and they're beautiful porpoise.
And they, along with the turtles, eat what's left of the bodies.
But basically, you know, we do a lot of cremation in this country publicly.
They do it publicly there.
So you might look down on it as being sort of crude and awful, but in reality, it gets those people more in touch with death rather than making an awful door that, you know, such fear.
Americans tend to stave it off and put it in little cubicles.
They put it behind white doors.
Yeah, and old folks go to old folks homes.
Hold on, we've got to take a break.
Be right back folks.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
But it's got a man in sanity.
He is like the Caribbean, not a king.
All the people live and love their father.
Folks, the Hour of the Time is brought to you by Swiss America Trading.
I can guarantee you that if Joseph trekked across India and had run out of any kind of money, if he'd have pulled a gold or silver coin out of his pocket, not one single person would have refused it.
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We'll be right back.
You know, Joe, in preparation for this show I looked all through my musical collection and you know how eclectic it is and what my taste is and I couldn't find anything that even came close to a show and traveling across India.
So, I hope you like what we've chosen.
Well, Bill, it was certainly a different experience and that's what I was looking for.
I'd been very much involved with with American business in Europe and done a great deal of traveling.
I've traveled to some 68 countries around the world and I wanted to immerse myself in a completely different culture and that's what I found myself in is a completely different culture.
I met a couple of young men in northern India that had been in there.
One was from Argentina and the other was from Australia and they were both considered still foreigners although they'd lived there for 17 years.
They'd gone to school in California at Berkeley for two years, and they said they were very anxious to get back to India.
And I asked them what they thought of California, and they said, well, it seems to me that the people in the United States are not very free, and everything is decided for them.
They have so many laws that they can't think for themselves.
Wow, this is important.
Are you listening out there folks?
Say that again.
You're telling me that the people who live in India don't... This is in the eyes of this, quote, third world country where all the people are just poor and uneducated.
Let me tell you, people around the world, they're generally smart and they're seeing what's happening in the United States.
They're afraid of it.
Another fellow in the south of India, I said, Hello, I'm Joseph Gill.
I'm from the United States.
Oh, you're from the Clinton's international police force.
And my eyes opened up.
You're absolutely right.
Unfortunately, that's what's happening is, is our government has gotten away from us.
And it's time that maybe you can help us wake ourselves up, because there are some bad political problems in India.
But It seems that the people are able to handle it better than we are.
They're willing to do something about it and they're willing to step out.
I've discovered that the letters I get from people here in the United States are of incredulous disbelief of what they hear on the show unless they've been listening for a long time and have actually done some research on their own and discovered that it's all true.
The letters I get from foreign countries are, we've been watching this for years, it's amazing that America is just catching on.
Well, we're so busy being well off that we sit back, but it's not until you get hungry that you realize what's happening around you.
People in Europe have lost their borders.
They've gained their borders.
People around the world have had revolutions.
So they know how to keep their finger on the control system so that they can take responsibility.
In the United States, we gained our, quote, freedom years ago, and we haven't had any war since the Civil War here.
So we don't really feel any responsibility.
And it's not taught from father to son or mother to daughter that one of the responsibilities of freedom is being willing to fight for it and being willing to take the responsibility to be involved with politics.
Even in the form of a PTA or some local politics, people just want to pass the buck.
Everybody leaves their soul up to the priest, they leave their security up to the politician, and they leave their body up to the doctor who many times won't even tell them why he's giving them pills.
So people in America are like quiet cattle and they need to wake up.
And this is the way that people around the world view us.
They think that Americans are not very sophisticated in their conversation, the way that they speak.
They find talking to Europeans, this is a terrible generality, but Europeans generally find Americans are somewhat dull.
I'm not aware of what's happening in world politics.
They only look at it from the way that our media teaches us to look at it.
In other words, they think... Traveling is really a wonderful thing.
The best thing about traveling is you discover it for yourself.
Say, for instance, the things that you've talked about in your series of symbolism.
Well, it's one thing to hear about it and read about it.
I saw it.
I went into hundreds of temples around India, all Buddhist, Christian.
Hindu, Muslim, and I saw all the symbolism that you talk about, and I saw that equally in all four of those religions.
I saw all of them.
It was just incredible.
I saw the same symbolism.
I'd like to talk about that on some future show with you.
Why don't you just give our audience an example of one of the types of symbolism that you saw that was prevailing in all the different religions.
A car or whatever they're selling on TV.
What are they selling?
They're not selling the car, they're selling sex.
You know, when you listen to something that's trying to sell something, right, a car or whatever they're selling on TV, what do they sell?
They're not selling the car, they're selling sex.
And when you and I are having the most intellectual conversation, and we're both just absolutely blown away by what we're each other saying, Right?
We're just amazed at what we're saying.
And a beautiful woman walks by.
What happens?
Never mind the great conversation.
We turn around and we look at the beautiful woman.
Sure.
So our lives, as much as we don't like to admit it, is dominated by sex.
And the religions, all four of them, are predominantly sexual.
Everything from, if you study the Kundalini, which I know you've mentioned, the Kundalini, the caduceus is the medical symbol, the two intertwining snakes that go up, center, beam, and it goes up and there's some folded out wings at the top, you see it in front of the medical diplomas.
But what that is, that's called the rising of the kundalini, the two intertwining serpents.
Those are the two steeples on the sides of the church.
And then the large steeple that goes up the front of the church, those are the, they're called theida, the dingala, the two serpents, and the satsuma goes up the center.
You can see that throughout all the Hindu religion.
They have two white lines and a red line.
And in the Muslim religion, you see it by the two minarets, which are very tall, thin towers.
And between that, you'll see the symbol of Muhammad, which is a five-pointed star, which is also called Baphomet or Lucifer.
And so, in the Christian religion, they interpret that as bad.
And yet, when you walk into the Vatican in Rome, or you walk into many of the cathedrals that are in Goa, in Western India, you'll see two spiraling columns.
Like you will in the Vatican.
Two spiraling columns, and in the front you'll see the altar with Mary and Jesus.
And this is too much of a subject to cover in a few minutes.
Yeah, but every man in America will recognize it as what?
Well, every man in America will recognize it as the barber pole.
That's right.
The barber pole.
And when you look at the pictures of the old monks, they always shave their head.
And in the kundalini, or in this spiraling sphinx, there are seven centers of strength.
And this is a belief system, as I understand, but yet it may have some physiological inner meaning.
The seven are called chakras, and the top chakra is best opened when your head is shaved.
So the barber, which has these red and white strips that come up the barber pole is what you see all over India.
Outside of the temples are strips of white and red, white, red, white, red.
Two white, which you see also on people's forehead.
Two white strips in the middle, a red strip.
That is talked about in Revelations.
And that is the seven seals of the Bible.
And when you go open up the seven seals, you become enlightened.
And that's the wings opening at the top of the caduceus.
So, the So, symbolically, Jesus is on the cross, and there are two thieves, one on either side of him, and one asks for forgiveness.
He becomes the pingala, which is the red, and the good, and that's also the swastika.
The other one didn't ask for forgiveness, and so it became the black, the negative, Figuratively speaking, the female, which is the one that Hitler used, and that goes, and when you look down on the caduceus in three dimensions, not just on a piece of paper, you'll see that this Vastika, or this snake, goes around counter, the negative one goes around counterclockwise, the other one goes around clockwise.
But this symbolism, I saw thousands of times around India, and I saw it in Christian churches, Where Christian churches were adopting the Hindu symbolism because they wanted to get away some of the practitioners.
And I spoke to at least a hundred sadhus or priests up in the caves, up in the Himalayas.
And whichever church I went to, wherever I met a religious man or in front of the church, I always saw one thing in common.
A handout with palm up.
They call that bhaktish.
So for all these religious mythologies what you get is let's have a handout and it's a way to make money without any effort.
Basically what it is is people are not becoming accountable for their own relationship with God.
They have to go via a man-made religion.
I know this differs from your beliefs.
I applaud you.
It fits exactly right in perfectly with the show that we did Friday night.
What you're saying is exactly the message that I was trying to impart to the world.
You get the wrong impression.
There's no one that knows God better than I do.
No one.
I know him very well.
I've met him up in the Himalayas and I've met him down there when I was building my house in Hawaii.
He helped me when I was in business.
He's been in my life ever since I was one years old and yet I've never believed in any of the religions.
I was head acolyte in a cathedral in Seattle but I liked the ritual but I knew it was not for me.
I don't think that belief systems Have a place in a world where people are totally self-accountable because otherwise you're giving away your rights.
You're giving away your rights to your relationship with God by going through a man-made religion.
You're giving away your rights to know more about your body when you go to the doctor and you ask him why he's giving you the pills and he says, look, I'm the one with the education.
Or with a politician, we know they all lie, but they all come from us.
All politicians come from us.
So when they lie, it's just a reflection of what's happening between you and your brother, or me and my mother, or the infighting between families.
It's a reflection of our own lives.
Right.
They have an old hermetic axiom which says, as below, so above, and as above, so below.
So when you look into the government and see what's happening there, and these monopolies are being set up, and New World Orders, and everybody's got the best idea, you just see a reflection of what's below.
Oh, it's the patriots when I go to speak around the country whose first question out of their mouth is, how can I save my assets, or how can I profit from this coming New World Order?
No difference.
We're very material and we have to think of those things as well, but we also have to think that those things are not going to be worth much if the whole world theology changes.
Visiting the Baha'i Temple in New Delhi, I discovered that that was nothing more than an aspect of Freemasonry.
What's the significance of that?
It was in the shape of a lotus.
And the lotus symbolizes the five elements, which I found through all the religion.
The lotus grows in the mud, so it represents earth, and it goes through the water.
That's water.
It comes out on the surface of the water.
It blossoms into the fire, breathes the air, and it sends out its germinating stamen, which is reproduction, which is called ether.
And that is in all Freemasonry.
The generative force.
Yeah.
It's the five elements.
It's worldwide, but I discovered in every town, not city, but every town in India, Freemasonry.
And so it's a force to be reckoned with.
I'm not saying it's bad or good, but it's very well organized, and there's a lot of things that are happening, and there's a lot of control and a lot of so-called nepotism between members.
So it makes it a closed business in different towns if you don't join the Freemasonic Lodge.
Freemasonry is worldwide and it is in literally every town in the world.
They call it the Lions Club, the Elks, the Moose, the Baha'i Faith, the Mormons, And I'm not talking against the Freemasons.
There's an old adage in studying religions that not one man in 10,000 know of his own religion.
And a lot of Freemasons believe they really are in Christianity and I've talked to them where they're very disillusioned and it's only a very less than one half of one half of one percent at the top that really do understand what Freemasonry is all about or would understand what Buddhism is about Say, for instance, when I was talking to the teacher of the Dalai Lama, or who understands what all these other religions are about.
And what they are about is control.
That's exactly right.
Yeah, that's the reason why the Pope carries the shepherd's crook, and we're the sheep.
That's right.
So as long as we're willing to be the sheep, and to be led around by the Judas goat, then we'll go to slaughter.
But we need to become more responsible for our own selves, our own lives, and get off out of the way from the TV.
Sit down, learn more about the body, sit down and read the Bible, read the Koran, read all these different books, and see what's best for you.
And if you really want to do that, or what they call follow that, It's God's fault!
But I would say no matter what religion you are, I would suggest that you'd be willing to look at both sides of the coin and to read the book with an open mind.
There's good in everything.
And accept responsibility for...
Accept responsibility and encourage your children to do the same thing.
Because there's too much passing whatever religion from father to son and offspring to offspring.
It's God's fault.
It was preordained from the beginning.
No, if my father said that, then I respect my father and I say the same thing.
Sure.
Rather than fighting out for yourself if what your father, who learned it from his grandfather, who learned it from his great-grandfather, if they really sat down and spent some time studying whatever religion they happened to have been involved with.
Rather than accepting blindly.
Yeah, because that's the sheep.
You know, you mentioned something that's very interesting, I think we should talk about.
You mentioned the Baha'i Faith.
And we know that the United Nations passed a resolution years ago saying that in the world government of the United Nations, anyone has the freedom of religion as long as the religion is approved.
And we know that there's only one approved religion by the United Nations.
And what is that?
Well, the Baha'i Faith.
And what is the Baha'i Faith?
The temple in New Delhi.
It's absolutely incredible.
I went to see the Taj Mahal.
Absolutely breathtaking.
The most marvelous and mysterious and romantic structure in all of India.
And there were as many people to go see the Baha'i Temple as the Taj Mahal.
It was incredible.
There were lines of people waiting to come in and see this Freemasonic structure.
But there is another one that's on the west, rather the east coast, in a place called Pondicherry.
Slightly north of that was set up by the followers of Sri Aurobindo, and that is a Masonic temple down there unlike any other that I've viewed in the world.
Absolutely incredible!
It expresses this Kundalini symbolism that I was talking about earlier, and it also expresses the Celtic symbolism of England and France, and it's absolutely awesome!
And of course the guides that guide you around there, they tell you, oh, this isn't a religion.
No, of course not.
This is not only a religion, this is the most religious edifice that I have studied in the world.
And they really, truly don't understand what they're walking around showing.
And so I said, this could not have been designed by the people who set it.
They designed it.
And so in digging about the information, I found out that the architect that designed the meditation, about a 20 story high building, incredible structure was a Freemason from Paris who had also done the architectural work on the some two billion dollars worth of Freemasonic structures that have gone up in Paris including the pyramid the glass pyramid in front of the Louvre
and I could have named him before they told me the name so it's the Freemasons are making themselves more known not only to us but to themselves and I say the same thing to them as I would say to any religion and I have a fabulous library of books on Freemasonry and it says in numbers of them that this is a religion and I'll We're out of time, Joseph.
I want to thank you.
You've been truly illuminating.
With no doubt, yeah.
Yeah, so it is a religion, so I only say to the Freemasons, "Just to get to know your religion more or your belief." It's not a social club all at all.
It's a lot more than a social club.
Well, we're out of time, Joseph.
Gosh, I want to thank you.
You've been truly illuminating, so to speak.
You want to keep the light on the subject.
Yes.
Gosh, it's good to have you back.
I look forward to a lot of long discussions like we used to have.
I hope to see you soon.
Great!
It's been a pleasure.
People, just keep your eyes open, your ears open, and your mind open.
You can learn something new every day.
That's the only reason why we're here.
We just need to learn and learn and learn.
As soon as you stop learning, you become a sheep.
Yeah, that's true.
Bless you, too.
And good night, folks.
God bless you.
Happy New Year.
And I know we didn't have any traveling music tonight except for this last selection that comes from one of the most beautiful movies that I've seen in a long time called A Room with a View.
Hope you all enjoy it, and we'll see you again tomorrow night.
THE END
THE END
Thank you.
Thank you.
Abiton.
Eastern Standard Time.
Nineteen hours, forty-four minutes, fifty-five seconds.
Universal time.
Zero hours.
I don't know.
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