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Dec. 9, 1993 - Bill Cooper
55:50
Excerpts From Alvin Toffler Interview, Open Phones
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Time Text
I'm not sure what I was doing there.
I know.
Yes, I know.
is all of the time. Once out for the purpose of building one's society.
And that's what we're here for.
I'm William Cooper and this is the hour of the talking.
In studio I have with me...
Carolyn Nelson.
Carolyn Nelson.
Carolyn Nelson is sitting here with me and that big loud pop you heard was her turning
on her mic, which should have been done before the show, but that's okay.
Folks, we're going to have open phones tonight, but first I'm going to read a part of an interview that I have here in front of me, and while I'm getting that ready, you can sit back and enjoy some old tinies, which I Collect and you might find a little entertaining.
Oh, you need fluff, fluff, fluff, you make a fluffer nutter.
Marshmallow fluff, and lots of peanut butter.
First you spread, spread, spread, your bread with peanut butter.
Add marshmallow fluff, and have a fluffer nutter.
When you enjoy, enjoy, enjoy, your fluff and peanut butter, you're glad you have enough for another fluffer nutter.
Okay, this is from a magazine called Wired, November 19th, 1985.
In fact, it's the first monthly issue.
Now, for those of you out there who might put another connotation on WIRED, it's not what you're thinking.
It's a... Patients and Computers.
So, it has nothing to do with the old 60's Meaning, back then, if you were wired, you were high.
You were spaced out.
You were ahead in all kinds of other things.
Let me read just a portion of this article.
This is a long article, folks.
It's an interview between Alvin Toffler and Mr. Schwartz.
Alvin Toffler, as you know, is the one who wrote Future Shock.
He also wrote The Third Wave, which I recommended that you all get and read when I did the bibliography for the Mystery Series.
I should say your beginner's bibliography.
Let me start here.
I'm starting on page 121 at the section entitled Cross-Link Government.
This is Alvin Toffler speaking.
The place we need really imaginative new ideas is in conflict theory.
That's true with respect to war and peace, but also it's true domestically.
The real weakness is, throughout the country, is the lack of conflict resolution methods other than litigation and guns.
As you increase social diversity, you do two things simultaneously.
You increase potential trade-offs and also potential conflicts.
The tradeoff possibilities are so complex that the institutions that we rely on to make
those to broker the deals are overwhelmed.
One of the functions of a legislature is to negotiate compromises among various constituencies.
Well, the constituencies today are so numerous, their demands are so complex, and the rate
of change in their demands and in the constituencies is so high that nobody in Congress represents
anybody anymore.
They represent themselves, because their constituency changes from day to day, and as a consequence
their ability to broker out differences to arrive at compromise is more limited than
it was.
We're going to go ahead and get started.
Why are all of our institutions and systems suddenly in simultaneous crisis?
Because they were all designed for the mass industrial society that treats people in large numbers rather than in smaller, more defined and more changeable groupings.
Constitutional constraints make it impossible for them to adapt in order to serve small grouplets and to provide niche services.
The real big crisis that faces this country is a constitutional crisis.
In 1976, during the Bicentennial, we wanted to get Americans thinking about a constitution for the 21st century.
Now this is an aside for me, folks.
Who do you think he's talking about when he said we wanted to get Americans thinking about a constitution for the 21st century?
You see, he's not speaking just for himself.
He goes on.
Rather than waiting for a constitutional crisis to strike because of some very narrow issues
such as abortion or tax limitation, we should be coming up with mock constitutions and pilot
constitutions of all kinds.
Mr. Swartz, I said this in 76, too.
Alvin Topper.
The original is 200 years old.
Time to take another lick.
Look.
Let me say that again.
The original is 200 years old.
Time to take another lick.
Mr. Swartz.
But you know the opposition to this idea, the fear of opening it up, is so great.
I will say that I was very strongly in favor of this twenty years ago, but in the era of Pat Buchanan, I worry about it because Pat may get in charge of the Constitution and write me out.
Alvin Toffler.
Yes, exactly.
Exactly.
The fears are justified, but the question is, do you think we can get by without such a rewriting of the Constitution?
How long can we go?
Another ten, twenty, thirty, fifty years?
We believe we're going to have a constitutional convention, or constitutional crisis, whether we like it or not.
It is better, therefore, to anticipate it, and at least begin a kind of social process which involves large numbers of people writing mock constitutions for the future.
Mr. Schwartz, why do you believe the crisis is inevitable?
Alvin Toffler.
Because the present tripartite structure doesn't work.
We strongly believe in the separation of powers, but there are multiple ways to separate powers.
This idea, that they are separated into a legislature, a judiciary, and an executive, is only one way of slicing it.
You've got to ask yourself what-if questions.
What are alternative ways of going about this?
Americans seem to think that our system is the only imaginable system.
We have argued that there are decisions being made in Tokyo that have a bigger impact on American life than decisions made on Capitol Hill.
Therefore, we demand seats in the Japanese Diet.
But, by the same token, the Japanese would have a right to seats in the American Congress.
We have promoted this idea of what we call cross-national representation.
Again, folks, there's that mystical we that is never explained throughout this entire article.
If you've been listening to this program, you know exactly who the we is.
Think about this in a larger sense.
The European community is a dumb obsolete dodo and has been from day one.
When the Europeans began to put together the EC, nobody said, quote, what would a parliament of the 21st century look like, unquote.
What they said is, quote, what would a good 18th century parliament look like and let's create it, unquote.
If you look at the EC model, we have a dozen countries and we create a super state.
At a time when every corporation in the world is trying to flatten the hierarchy, they are extending the hierarchy, adding a level of government.
It disobeys what my wife Heidi calls the law of congruence.
The law says that there must be a congruence between how an economy is organized and how a government is organized.
You can't have totally different organizational structures.
If companies are becoming less bureaucratic and less hierarchical, there has to be, for an effective society, a parallel development in government.
The Europeans are going in the absolutely opposite direction, adding a level of bureaucracy to the existing bureaucracy.
The Eurocrats are trying to make Europe more hierarchical.
We say, and there's that mystical we again, We say if you put Americans into the Japanese legislature and Japanese into the American legislature, you're beginning to create a network.
Why not conceive of an Asia-Pacific regional arrangement that is essentially based on a network model instead of a hierarchical European model?
It might take twenty, thirty years to build this system, but it is a political model that fits a third-wave civilization.
It is anti-hierarchical.
Through long years of acquaintanceship with politicians in various parliaments and various political parties, we've come to the conclusion that some of them are very smart, but the institutions are dumb, and they are dumb because they're obsolete.
Mr. Schwartz.
So how do we change?
That's the real question.
How do we get there from here?
Alvin Toffler.
Probably by waiting for some horrible crises.
Remember, folks, I warned you that that's exactly what they will do.
He goes on.
We delude ourselves to assume that it will change in a rational fashion.
There's nothing rational about it.
I think that it doesn't matter how smart the President is.
We who are intellectuals tend to fall in love with politicians who can speak our language.
I find it attractive that Gore can talk about national information infrastructure or that he speaks about reinventing government and so forth and so on, but I've concluded two things.
Where politicians get their money, And where they get their votes will determine what they do irrespective of what they say.
Mr. Schwartz.
So are you saying that there has to be a large constituency for change first?
Alvin Poplar.
For the United States to make a swift, smart, and smooth transition into the wealth creation of the knowledge-based third wave, there has to be a third-wave constituency in America.
And the place that has to come from is the knowledge workers and from the third-wave corporations and industries.
They've got money.
They've got brains.
But the core of the brain-force economy is politically retarded.
Let me say that again.
But the core of the brain-force economy is politically retarded.
It has a low political IQ and has not achieved political self-consciousness.
The old smokestack barons and trade union leaders who dominated during the second wave are still running rings around you guys in Washington.
That's why Washington passes an infrastructure bill that allocates 100 items as much to fixing bridges and potholes as to speeding the creation of the electronic infrastructure.
Even the knowledge systems of society are designed to support the old industrial elites and superstructures.
For example, accounting systems are biased against the information and services industries.
The Financial Accounting Board, which sets the standards, all it does is devalue the intangibles and overvalue the tangibles.
As a consequence, it puts a brake on the most rapidly developing, fastest-growing, most important sectors of the American economy.
And they help support the dying industries.
How do you raise capital when you don't have a steel mill?
Mr. Schwartz.
Exactly.
I run a knowledge company, but the knowledge in my workers does not count at the bank.
Alvin Topler.
Knowledge is the ultimate substitute.
If you have the right knowledge, you can substitute it for all the other factors of production.
You reduce the amount of labor, capital, energy, raw materials, and space you need in the warehouse.
So knowledge is not only a factor of production, it is THE factor of production.
And none of the powers that be in Washington and in the industrial centers of our country seem yet to fully comprehend it.
It scares them.
It's threatening.
Mr. Schwartz Well, that's why you reached this conclusion that it almost inevitably takes some kind of crises.
The one hope for the future is that, as the good fortune in Russia shows, the crises can be mostly non-violent.
Alvin Toffler Listen, if you want to look at amazing things, the human race has built 50,000 to 60,000 nuclear weapons, and since Nagasaki hasn't fired one in anger.
Some survival instinct has kept the finger off the button.
The purpose of our new book, War and Anti-War, is to shift our strategies for war and for peace to a third wave basis.
If we don't end the age of mass destruction, along with the age of industrial mass production, that amazing record could be broken.
Get that book, folks, and read it.
War and Anti-War by Alvin Toffler.
It's his next in the series after the third wave.
That's War and Anti-War by Alvin Toffler.
And remember, folks, I predicted years ago that information, not money, is the power of the 90s.
And those who have information will control those who do not.
That's on record.
Sometimes you feel like a nut.
Sometimes you don't.
I've enjoyed that much.
Okay, folks.
Let's take calls now.
I'm a Georgia, feelin' so popular, Older than the moon, it's a lesson.
Mountains got you jumpin' Tuckin' into the culture, though.
Sometimes you feel like a mountain, Sometimes you don't.
Beautiful, I'm a Georgia, Beautiful, mountains don't.
Sometimes you feel like a mountain, Sometimes you don't.
Okay, folks.
Let's take calls now.
And somebody's already on the horn.
Good evening, you're on the air.
Bye.
Thank you.
Hello?
Nobody there.
OK, the number is 602-333-2174.
That's 602-333-2174.
Let's talk about these things.
Let's find out what you think about what I just read.
Good evening, you're on the air.
Hello?
Well, it looks like we're having some kind of little problems here.
I don't know what it is, but Carolyn, why don't you talk there while I try to figure this out.
Take it.
You got it.
Hello, everyone.
I'm not hearing my voice here.
You'll have to put the knob up.
Right.
Here we have my voice coming through now.
What can we chat about?
Just for a few moments until Bill gets the telephone working.
How was the reception around the world for the program that we heard last evening?
I understand that in some parts of the country it was a little weak.
Mostly on the East Coast, Colorado and Michigan seemed to be having good luck hearing the program that we had last night with the young man.
Bruce talking about his experience going in to talk to a class of students in Long Island.
We hope that you can hear it at another time in case the reception was a little poor in other parts of the country too.
Well folks, I don't know what's going on here.
Looks like we've lost our call in line.
And I don't know why, but keep on calling and we may figure this out.
Good evening, you're on the air.
Hello, William.
Hello.
This is Jeffrey from New Orleans.
I'm going to cut my radio off now.
I've had to cut you in fast.
What I heard tonight, of course, I well understand.
I don't know if you know this, but tonight is the 35th anniversary of the John Birch Society's founding in Indianapolis, Indiana.
Yes.
And we just came from a dinner in New Orleans where one of the people that was talking about how medicine is going to be used as one of the levers To bring us into the New World Order, and of course the book you read tonight talks a lot about that, and that it's trying to claim that information is the key to their getting control of us, etc., etc.
But I have noticed that you seem to have... Are you still there?
I'm here.
Okay, I noticed you seem to have a couple of problems in terms of philosophy that seem to crop up.
But one thing you stated on the program earlier on another channel, that you had a problem
of knowing when you knew something and when you didn't know something.
And I was going to suggest, have you ever read a book called Introduction to Objectivist
Statisticology by Hein Rand?
Yes, you've called before haven't you?
Right, I've called on that subject.
Yeah, uh, Anran is into objectivism, and, uh, I understand what you're talking about.
I know when I know something.
Uh, I don't understand what you're talking about.
I've never said I don't know when... It's not in relation to your statement concerning the Kennedy assassination that you didn't know whether you were given false material or not, or what.
Nobody knows that.
Nobody knows that.
That's right.
And another point I want to bring up... Wait, wait, hold it.
Let me clarify what you're talking about.
When I was in the Office of Naval Intelligence, I was shown an awful lot of information in my capacity on the Intelligence Briefing Team for CINCPAC Fleet.
I already know that everything that they showed me concerning UFOs was disinformation.
I know that for a fact.
They could have shown me other things that were disinformation.
I don't know whether they did or not.
And nobody in that position could ever possibly know.
Nor could I possibly know now.
Without some kind of proof.
I've already proven the UFO thing is in the hands of governments of the world.
People.
Okay, and there's another problem I was going to bring up also.
And that is in your Behold the Pale Horseshoe Ribbon on page 3 or something like this, a statement in which you claim that the people of the New World Order believe that free market economics is used to level people down to a certain level so they can be controlled?
That's correct.
Well, I disagree with that completely.
Well, you're free to do that, but I'm telling you right now, NAFTA is going to lower the standard of living of all Americans, and it's going to bring up the standard of living of the Mexican people, and it's going to give the people in charge more control over the common man, because it's going to eliminate the middle class.
If you disagree with that, then you've got a link in it.
NAFTA is the closest thing to free trade that you're ever going to see, and if they broke down all the barriers with all the nations, we'd be in more trouble than you could ever dream of.
Yeah, but there's a flaw in it.
NAFTA actually allows government-subsidized shipping, such as much what the Commonwealth of Independent States and other shipping people do, and that's one of the reasons why your shipping costs are not taken into account when goods are shipped from Japan to the U.S.
because they use government-subsidized shipping.
But real free trade means trade between private entities using privately controlled, non-governmentally subsidized transportation, etc.
I'm not talking about Japan.
I'm talking about NAFTA.
Right.
Well, NAFTA's the same thing.
NAFTA has no government-subsidized shipping.
But, but in NAFTA you have... No, no, no.
Let's stick to the facts.
You can't talk about NAFTA and bring in Japan subsidizing its shipping.
NAFTA has no government-subsidized shipping.
But it does have government subsidized and controlled boards that dictate where industrial plants go, etc., etc.
No, it does not.
It has nothing to do with the government.
They are independent boards that can actually overrule governments.
Right, and they can impose big, more rules than the governments actually have.
In fact, one of the objections to NAFTA is that they could put in stronger environmental regulations than we have now.
Possibly, yes.
And the point I'm trying to get at is that real free trade doesn't have those kind of super
governmental boards at all.
Real free trade would do exactly the same thing.
The only thing that has created a middle class in this country was our ability in the past
to protect ourselves from what's going to happen with this NAFTA thing and with any
kind of a free trade.
You can't have free trade in a world where there is a disparity in the standard of living
between peoples and workers.
For instance, if we have a standard of living where we pay our average laborer $10 an hour
and we're dealing with a country where they pay their average laborer 50 cents an hour,
it is going to result in the lowering of the standard wage in this country and the lowering
of the standard of living in this country.
It will bring up the standard of living and the wage in the other country until we meet
somewhere in between and it is not in our best interest to do that.
But there's a hinge over there too because we have an arbitrary minimum wage that's set
by government.
And that's been put in there to force wages above a certain level, which is why Americans don't do certain jobs these days.
Don't you understand what that does, though?
It will just make American companies go down to Mexico, where they can pay the Mexican laborer 50 cents an hour, and American laborers up here will be standing in long lines to collect their below minimum wage in their unemployment check.
Which is why we should get rid of minimum wage and the antitrust laws to start with.
No, which is why we should close our borders and say screw you to the rest of the world until they can bring their standard of living up on their own.
Well, we tried that in 1890 with Benjamin— No, we didn't.
No, no, no.
I've heard all this liberal bullshit, and that's a lie.
We've never done that in our history.
Well, I— We have never— I know that's peppering on the Civil War.
I'm sure you remember the time— We have never done that in our history, and that had nothing to do with the Civil War.
Well, it laid one of the bases for it, I know that.
That's what the liberals would like for everybody to believe.
They've also been touting the fact that the Great Depression in the 20s and 30s was caused by free trade, and that also is a lie.
That is a lie, and Adrian Montoan and also Alan Greenspan can back that up, too.
Well, at any rate, I'm glad I called you up on this, and I do appreciate all the effort you've put in, especially after last Friday night.
And I say keep up the good work even when we do disagree on these matters.
Well, disagreement is healthy.
There's nothing wrong with that.
And I welcome anyone to disagree.
There is no requirement that anybody agree with me anywhere at any time.
There is a requirement that you learn to think.
Right.
And that you be polite when you call.
And you can argue and question me all you want to as long as you meet those two criteria.
And I believe that you do think.
But I think that you should rethink your position on free trade.
Thank you for calling.
Thank you.
602-333-2174 is the number, folks.
And good evening.
You're on the air.
Hello.
Well, looks like we're having intermittent phone troubles.
I wonder what that's all about.
Let's try it again.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hello.
How are you doing?
Hello.
Turn your radio down, please.
I did.
I didn't expect to get answered that quick.
Well, somebody else was on, but they weren't on.
I don't know if people are hanging up.
It could be.
You know, sometimes the little children out there that have their full diapers want to play games.
I don't know if that's what's happening or not.
What can we do for you?
Well, I was just kind of curious if you could give me some information on something called 7272 about disarmament.
72-72?
Yes.
You mean 72-77?
The order that President Kennedy signed in relation, you know, with the Brady Bill and Reno now talking about licensing.
You're talking about State Department publication 72-77.
Kennedy did not sign it.
It was published by the State Department.
But it's part of the, it's part of the goal of the Disarmament Agency and The disarming of all nations and all peoples, combining the military forces of Russia and the United States under the United Nations to be the police force of the world.
We are now in stage two of that plan.
When do we go to stage three?
Could be tomorrow for all I know, but it's going to be soon.
I don't think they can go to stage three until they disarm the American people, and that is at such an escalated I can foresee serious conflicts in this country in 1994 over disarming the American people, and I mean shooting.
Do you know anything about the National Guard training house-to-house search and seizures?
All the military is.
What do you know about the Multijurisdictional Task Force?
That was promulgated in Public Law 100-690, which is the whole chapter in my book.
It's just what it says.
A multi-jurisdictional task force.
It's a combination of local and federal and state law enforcement and sometimes military in the guise of suppressing drugs coming into this country.
But it's real purpose is to form an infrastructure for a State police, or I should say a federal police, which will manifest itself sometime within the next few years.
Now, have you heard of Jack McClam?
Yes.
He discusses the MJTF, and there's a third factor in there, and that is that they're going to bring the gangs into it, and have them using for detention centers, which we call those the places out in the big nowhere that the airline pilots find every now and then.
Well, could be.
I wouldn't doubt it.
There is no proof of that.
I will tell you that right now.
There is no proof whatsoever for that allegation.
But I wouldn't doubt it.
If I was a member of law enforcement, knowing what was coming, I wouldn't want to go against American patriots.
It might be in my best interest to con some stupid gang members into putting on a uniform and being the front line troops so that they could get killed so that I could hide behind them and kill you.
Thank you very much for your time.
You're welcome.
Number 602-333-2174.
While we're on this subject, you mentioned Jack McClam and that brought up something that happened last night which I want to clarify.
After the show last night, Mean called and she, I know most of you don't know who she is and probably never will, but she's a patriot.
She's a very intelligent woman, very smart.
She calls and we talk from time to time.
And she thought that maybe I might have given out the wrong impression last night when someone called and asked about Don McElvenny.
And I said that Don McElvenny used to work for the Central Intelligence Agency.
I then stated that there are no ex-intelligence officers.
And I thought I made it very clear.
Some of you may have misunderstood me.
I then said, if he was an officer, Which I don't know whether he was or not.
That's up for you to figure out.
Because, to tell you the truth, I'm not really interested.
But I was in no way implying that Don McElvenny works for the CIA.
I know that he did.
I know that if he was an officer, that he probably still does.
If he's not an officer, Then that's up for you guys to figure out.
I have had no dealings with Don McElvenny other than to find out why he was, in his newsletter for many years, saying that all the problems in the world are caused by the Soviet Union.
And that's just not true, folks.
Most of the problems in the world have been caused by Washington, D.C.
and London and the Vatican in Rome.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
While we're waiting here, I was wondering if I could ask a question as if I were a collar bill.
I remember hearing something about the prohibition era and the fact that it was a cover-up for establishing a drug network in the country.
No.
Do you know anything?
Drugs were common in this country and they were outlawed.
Drugs were totally outlawed in this country.
And then prohibition was not brought on to create anything, although it did, it created the Mafia.
But Prohibition was the result of religious organizations and largely women's groups who
insisted that alcohol be made illegal.
And if you're a man, it's going to be here.
And all you do is create crime networks, you create full prisons and all kinds of things.
The answer to drugs is to legalize it.
I know that a lot of you out there feel strongly against that, but I'm telling you right now, it would decrease crime in this country by 50% overnight if you would do it, and treat those people who are sick like sick people should be treated, and stop trying to play God.
Good evening, you're on the air.
I hope I don't put you to sleep.
I've been listening to Tom Valentine and I seem to go to sleep.
I hope I don't put you to sleep.
No, no, no. I didn't mean that in that sense.
It's just that I start listening about 9 o'clock and by 12 I'm...
Yeah, it gets pretty late doesn't it?
Yeah.
But I just... when I plug my earphones back in, you're recording from a book
And I'd love to have the title of that book.
Well, it's not a book.
It's a magazine.
The title of the magazine is Wired, and it's the November 1993 issue.
In fact, it's the first monthly issue ever.
It's not the first issue of the magazine.
It used to come out quarterly or something like that, but this is the first monthly issue.
It's called Wired, and you should be able to find it on Any large, well-stocked newsstand.
Gosh, that's hard in this country.
I'm Central Kentucky.
I drive to Louisville to get books and letters.
I'm worth looking at.
Yeah, I understand what you mean.
I really like your line of thinking.
I can understand that you don't jump on one view and on one thing and just heart, heart, heart.
And I love that.
I like the way you handle that guy, Walgo.
I'll be a listener for a while.
I'm a, I'm a right winger.
I, uh, have some liberal views.
But, uh, what's the game to show up on the, on the silver screen and TV is, uh, really worrying me.
And I can't believe that, uh, that, uh, our news media, the CFR, Can't put that big of a boom on them, but evidently they can.
I haven't heard anything about the Weaver case in this area.
I haven't heard anything about Waco, except from the Valentine show.
I don't hear anything about what goes on behind closed doors in committee meetings or anything else in the papers or on TV.
Well, you've really missed out because we not only covered the Weaver case, but we read the entire defense brief for the defense that was presented in court over the year.
I went to Waco and covered Waco on scene.
All of the breaking stories about Waco appeared on only two radio programs, mine and Ron Engelman's show in Dallas, and those were the only two shows for a long time that told any truth about Waco, Texas.
So you just stay tuned to the hour of the time and I think you'll find that you'll start getting what you've been lacking.
I was in Montana a year before last when Bo Grimes was running for president.
We call him Bobo Grits around here.
Bobo Grits.
Bobo Grits, yeah.
I was a very frustrated Republican because I had been the county campaign chairman for Bush and Hopkins and our local Senator Mitch McConnell, we call him Snitch McConnell.
Uh huh.
And I got out west and once you cross the Mississippi the mindset is all together different.
I hadn't been out west in some time.
I got quite an education and looks like I keep on getting educated.
I'm a radio operator and I've been inactive for about five years.
Uh huh.
Days have changed.
Things are changing so fast that by the end of next year, by January 1st, 1995, I doubt if anybody will recognize this country as the United States of America as it was 20 years ago.
I'm so positive of what you just said.
I'm almost afraid to make this statement on the air.
I was talking to a coin exchange dealer today.
Over the weekend I had made a decision to purchase some art forms and I made the comment that I was a little bit nervous and he said in the back, we have had three people today who have felt the same way.
Now I live in a very rural area and I live in a very liberal area.
And when rumors start here, we're the last to get them.
I mean, Kentucky's in the middle of this country almost, in a certain sense.
We're not too backwards yet, but gosh, we don't get anything compared to what you do out west.
And I'm surprised.
I really am.
I'm taken back.
It's coming down a lot quicker than I ever thought.
I thought my kids may see Yeah, and that's one of the problems, you see, because there are many of us who have been warning the American people for many years, and what I've heard from a lot of people is, well, I'm not going to be alive when it happens, so I'm not going to worry about it.
I won't.
I will not.
It has propelled us into it when we should have been doing things to stop it years and
years ago when it would have been very easy.
Now it's almost impossible.
And I'm going to tell you right now, if it's not done pretty soon, the blood's going to
flow in the streets of America because there are many, many men and women out there who
will not ever accept the destruction of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and under
no conditions will consent to be disarmed.
So one of the purposes of this program is to wake the sheeple, empower the people, try
to get them moving so that we can do something before it comes to that.
I don't want to see Americans killing Americans.
I had almost got a bi-weekly article in our little town paper here until I came out with
a kind of a... how I thought politics was looking up and I called our two senators traitors
and I had a letter from the Attorney General who refused to help me.
I was more or less shaking some thoughts, trying to provoke some thoughts and I lost
all rights to my article.
I don't expect to ever be seen in the paper again or anything else.
And that's alright because I'm going to keep trying.
I'll do what I can do.
And you know what scares me from talking to two people today that I feel very comfortable with and talking about these issues?
And I'm a little hesitant to talk here and there because of being on radio and who's listening.
Well you better talk here because this is the only radio station that will let you say what you're going to say.
Go ahead.
I think the powers that be on the dual order thing have put the process into gear and I think the majority of the people is taking the ball and running with it full.
It's almost getting ahead of them.
That's right.
That's my fear.
And you know, I've had very intelligent people tell me, and I've never seen this in writing and I've never seen it, but they tell me that The majority is usually always wrong.
You couldn't be more right on the truth if you tried.
The majority of people are ignorant.
The majority of the people are stupid.
The majority of the people are what I call sheeple, and they usually do what they're told to do without thinking too much about it.
And if they look around and they've got a TV in every room and there's a chicken in the pot, they pretty much don't care what happens.
And you can tell that by, uh, what would happen in your town if you wrote 100 bad checks?
You'd be in jail, wouldn't you?
Roger.
Well, most of the Congress wrote 100 or more bad checks, and they're still in Congress, re-elected by their constituents, who would have put you in jail in your hometown.
All right, now that ought to tell you something.
To show you how people think, about, uh, six months ago, when Rush Limbaugh really got popular in this area, it scared me.
And I wrote a letter to the editor and I said, I think Rush is a Judas goat.
Well, our editor didn't understand Judas goat, so he put in the letter, a Jewish goat.
Oh, he did that intentionally.
He did that intentionally to make you look anti-semitic.
And you ought to go and poke that sucker right where it counts.
If he'd have done that to me, I'll tell you, I'd have been right there on his doorstep when he walked out of his office.
He never... He never printed my retractions.
No.
No, he wants to make you look like a rabid, insane, right-wing, radical, anti-Semitic, racist.
They do it all over this country.
I'm getting sick and tired of it.
And all of you people out there better start doing something about these stinking traitors that are sitting in your newspaper offices.
It's all you are.
It's all you are.
I could not believe that the media, as big as how righteous we are people, stuck us into this.
I just can't believe it.
I'm mad at myself.
I'm really mad at myself.
Well, we should all be mad at ourselves.
Listen, you've been on an awful long time and it's way past our policy, so I've got to let you go.
I want to thank you for calling.
Oh, I thank you.
Looks like I'm going to be up late every night.
Okay.
Take care of my brother.
Yeah, I just can't.
That makes me so angry when I hear something like that.
Somebody intentionally, intentionally does that to make somebody look like they're anti.
And it happens all the time.
It's happened to me so many times, I can't even count it.
Oh, by the way, I want to thank those of you who wrote Omni Magazine and gave them a piece of your mind.
And you'll also notice they did not print even one of your letters.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Mr. Cooper.
Yes.
I've heard you mention that you're writing a new book.
Yes.
Do you know when that will be out?
Don't even ask.
Okay.
It'll be out when it's out.
Let's see.
Are you going to have a chapter in there about the IRS?
No.
I've covered the IRS as much as I'm going to cover it.
If everybody out there doesn't understand it, then that's just too damn bad.
I'm tired of repeating myself, and I'm tired of knocking against wooden heads.
Okay.
I've said everything there is to say.
Phil Marsh has said everything there is to say.
There's people all over this country trying to educate people, and they still won't get educated.
By the way, folks, Philip Marsh was arrested.
Philip and Marlene Marsh were arrested.
There used to be the Pilot Connection.
Now it's the Liberty Foundation.
They were arrested.
Their offices were raided, not by the IRS, not by the police, not by the sheriff.
Guess who?
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms raided the Liberty Foundation, took every scrap of furniture, every piece of paper, arrested Philip and Marlene Marsh and a whole bunch of other people.
None of them were charged on tax-related charges.
They're all bullshit charges, and they always do this right at the end of the year, every single year, right before tax time, to scare all the rest of you sheeple into not untaxing yourselves.
Um, I want you to know I appreciate your show.
Thank you.
And I respect you as a person.
And, um, well, that was the only question I had.
Okay.
Thank you for calling.
Thank you.
602-333-2174.
Remember, folks, they did the same thing to Philip Marsh in the Pilot Connection last year, right at this same time.
And, uh, and the sheep will still fall for it.
Oh, I can't untask.
Look what happened.
I guarantee you that they're all little bitty charges, and none of them will stick, and even if they did, it wouldn't amount to a hill of beans.
It has nothing to do with taxes.
Good evening, you're on the air.
Hello, William.
Hello.
This is Miami calling, and the reason I brought up my city was that we were mentioned just recently in the news about violence down here.
Yeah, you're in the war zone, according to the liberal press.
Well, it occurred to me today If all of the women and men that I saw on the news reports that were in Sarajevo, that were running from snipers, if they had held up and shot back, they wouldn't have had to run anymore.
That's right.
And lately, all I've been hearing is gun control, gun control, instead of criminal control, criminal control.
You're beating a dead horse.
We've talked about this many times.
Everybody out there has heard this over and over again.
They all know that it's a ruse, and that the gun control won't work, and it won't stop the criminals, and it won't stop murder, and it won't stop crime.
But it's a scare tactic.
Well, no.
What we need to do is stop talking about it.
It doesn't do any good to talk about it anymore.
We've all talked about it until we're blue in the face.
Everybody's heard it.
Everybody knows it.
Nobody's doing anything about it.
Need to kick some ass in Washington, D.C.
Well, then, I'll just say, in closing, that the two shows where the Kaji members were your guests were dynamite.
Well, thank you.
Yeah, they are a fantastic couple of young men, and they're two other partners, too.
Now, that one crew, Mark and Bark... Mark and Bark, yeah.
They are all their butts all the way over from Los Angeles, I understand, to Washington.
Yes, they did.
That was for Project 93.
That's right.
That was great.
And last night, now, this fellow, you know, he showed a lot of guts.
The one that was at the university.
Yes.
And he showed a lot of guts on what he had to say to people that weren't even receptive.
Oh no, they were rabid Marxists.
And maybe hadn't had a clue that actual masons and actual Illuminati and actual secret societies,
they're not just secret for exclusivity.
They've got other deals that they want to do it in an underhanded way to get it over.
That's right.
Get over on us.
Yeah.
And if they do it underhanded, they can get it over on us.
And it seems to me that all of our leaders lately, from Kennedy, that would be like,
you know, Nixon and the presidents and a lot of the Congress since then have all been this,
the group that you hear about.
I remember the first show I heard about on the Hour of the Time.
It was surprising to me, but I listened through on it.
And it was actually George Bush's genealogy.
Yes.
I didn't understand it at first, and then it comes to me.
Well, now you should.
Well, by now I do, but yes, I've been listening since then, except after the arson.
I didn't come back until July.
A friend of mine said that you were back on, and I started listening all over again.
And then, right then, it was about the time he changed signals again.
He said you left him babbling.
He's a good old boy.
He knew about Masons, but he was like me.
He'd say, well, they're a fraternal bunch, and the key, their character, is for everyday guys, it aids them in their business dealings.
In other words, one Mason will trade with another Mason.
You know, what they do is they make it exclusive.
If you're in business in a town that is largely Freemason, you're out of business.
That's right, if you don't join the lodge, you're out.
Your friend, one time, I've heard you say this once, or twice, he said that his dad told him, now this was cold-blooded, but his dad said, if you're not one of us, you are nothing.
That's right.
Now, I was wondering if, I've heard this, another expression, all the time, but it seems like they're saying the same thing in code, but using different terms.
If you're not with us, you're against us.
That's right.
Now, I wonder if that's the same... That's exactly what they're saying.
Well, you see, now, that's not... Well, but it's not so.
Actually, they make it so by calling us the profane ones.
And actually, we're just regular Christian folks.
I had another opinion about that omni, too.
At the time you spoke about that, I think that if anybody's on worldwide Christian radio, Anybody that's ignorant would automatically say, well, Worldwide Christian Radio, they're anti-Semitic to start with.
No, that's not true.
That is not true.
It isn't true.
I know that.
That is not true.
Christ never preached anti-anything.
Exactly.
So, they want to use that in their own mind.
If they disagree with you, to discredit you.
Now, me, nobody's ever mentioned that to me.
I'm no writer.
I couldn't write my way out of a paper bag.
That's what I thought maybe Omni and a lot of these other groups that would call.
And I've seen them do that.
My anti-Semitic friend is one of the terms that they'll call people down here.
At the slightest provocation, or no provocation at all, all you have to do is mention anything about Jewish or Israel that you disagree with them, and automatically, if the host is a Jewish guy, they'll say to you, well, yes, my anti-Semitic friend, and hang up on you, and all of that kind of a thing.
And I've seen that what you said about that is true.
A lot of the people will do that and discredit you and make you look a fool about it.
When the last thing on your mind was to do that, maybe you were just talking a point in politics.
The only reason it works is because most of the people are so stupid that they believe those things without checking into it.
Don't want to be politically incorrect is another way to go.
That's right.
All right, Phil.
I'll get going now.
Okay.
Thanks for calling.
Thank you.
Bye-bye.
Good evening, you're on the air.
Yes?
Yes, you're on the air.
Chocolate flavoring Biscoff is mighty good for me.
Mama puts it in my milk for extra energy.
Biscoff gives me iron and sunshine, vitamin D.
Oh, I love Biscoff, that's the drink for me.
Good evening, you're on the air.
Yes?
Yes, you're on the air.
Okay, I got it.
Oh, this is very interesting.
It's the first time I've ever been able to get in on this program.
Talk to me.
All right.
You were talking about possibly the problems that are going to be coming down in the next year or two.
Yes, 94 is going to be a big year.
Yeah.
Well, this is what I see that they'll probably try to do.
It'll have to do with martial law, because with the laws that are on the books, If they declare martial law, they'll automatically suspend the Constitution for five years.
They almost did it during the Gulf War, Desert Storm.
They were, like, within two votes.
They don't have to declare martial law.
All they have to do is declare a national emergency.
Yes, but with the national emergency, that'll bring in the martial law.
Not necessarily.
They've declared several national emergencies in the last few years, and it hasn't brought martial law.
Yes, but one, oh, I even forgot exactly what the number of it was.
It was put in the last part of the Carter administration, first part of the Reagan administration.
There's a whole chapter in my books called FEMA, Federal Emergency Management Act.
All the executive orders were in there.
And by the way, those have all been superseded by executive orders that Reagan and Bush Yes, and I think they're using what is being portrayed as the fringe crazy element with the guns.
of his own tiff. These are always changing all the time.
But they need an excuse to declare martial law. And they're trying to create situations around
the country, and I believe Waco was one of those situations.
Yes, and I think they're using what is being portrayed as the fringe crazy element with
the guns. They're trying to use this small percentage of people in order to bolster their
point of view that they need some sort of national emergency in order to physically
take the guns away from the people.
My friend, it's my contention that they create that small fringe of people who go around shooting 16 or 17 people in a subway or blowing away 10 people in a McDonald's or the situation in Waco, Texas.
We found out that the Seventh-day Adventist Church to supply volunteers for CIA mind control experiments and
Mark Breaux and Vernon Howell were both members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church for
many years before they broke off and went into the branch of Davidians.
Well, the Bulgarians and the Romanians brought it down to an art of where they could take
an individual in and completely recreate an identity for the individual, taking them,
putting them through psychological, psychological, psychological, psychological, psychological
trials and trials.
And they were able to do that.
It is all you were talking about that in a few years you'd be able to look back and it
wouldn't be the same.
Well, I said...
20 years ago...
I said at the end of...
You get the point.
At the end of next year.
I think it's already reached that point right now.
Well, not necessarily.
I mean, you can still recognize the United States of America, but I think by the end of next year, there won't be any recognition of this country as it once was 20 years ago.
Listen, we're out of time.
I hate to cut you off, but I've got no more time to give you.
So, I want to thank you for calling.
And for everybody out there listening, goodnight.
Good night.
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