The Simpsons and Progressive Christianity | A Bee Interview With Michael J. Kruger
On The Babylon Bee Interview Show, Kyle and Ethan talk to Michael J. Kruger about The Ten Commandments of Progressive Christianity, the theology of the Simpsons, and how Christians can survive college with Root Beer Pong. Michael J. Kruger is President and Professor of New Testament and Early Christianity at Reformed Theological Seminary. He has written several books, including his latest Surviving Religion 101: Letters to a Christian Student on Keeping the Faith in College. He also runs his website, where he talks about exploring the origins of the New Testament canon and other biblical and theological issues. Check out Michael J. Kruger's book on Progressive Christianity here: https://www.amazon.com/Commandments-Progressive-Christianity-Cruciform-Quick/dp/194925321X Check out Kruger's website: https://www.michaeljkruger.com/ Kyle and Ethan give Michael a few icebreaker questions to help get to know him better. Michael gives some surprising answers to what he would be doing if he wasn't a president of a reformed university. Kyle and Ethan dive in deep to the 10 commandments of Progressive Christianity. Michael gives his explanation for the origin of where these commandments came from. After hearing about the book, Kyle and Ethan dive into a game of Root Beer pong with Michael. They each take turns shooting ping pong balls and asking Michael questions about Theology, personal questions, and monkeys. Once they finish drinking all the cream soda, Kyle and Ethan transition to playing a Theology Simpsons trivia game with Michael. In the Subscriber Portion, Ethan finds out about Michael's views on the canonization of the bible. Kyle finds out if Michael had a God's Not Dead experience while he was in college. Michael gives his grade on Church leadership in our current culture. Ethan and Kyle ask Michael the ever amazing 10 questions.
I just have to say that I object strenuously to your use of the word hilarious.
Hard-hitting questions.
What do you think about feminism?
Do you like it?
Taking you to the cutting edge of truth.
Yeah, well, Last Jedi is one of the worst movies ever made, and it was very clear that Ryan Johnson doesn't like Star Wars.
Kyle pulls no punches.
I want to ask how you're able to sleep at night.
Ethan brings bone-shattering common sense from the top rope.
If I may, how double dare you?
This is the Babylon B interview show.
Hey, you, do you want to be woke?
I know I do.
I wake up every morning thinking I really want to be woke.
That's fantastic because I have a product that meets that exact need that you just articulated right then.
It's a new book called The Babylon B Guide to Wokeness, and it teaches you how to be woke.
My entire life, I've asked myself, how are these kids these days getting so woke?
And I know that there's got to be an instruction book out there, but there isn't until now.
Now there is.
Because this book teaches you how to be woke so you won't get canceled, so Twitter mobs won't come after you and ruin your life.
You get to know how to choose your pronouns, your gender.
Buy this book so that you won't get canceled.
You can order it today.
What's up, Ethan?
What's up, bro?
Not too much, man.
I'm just hanging out here at my table with these red solo cups all over it.
What are these?
I don't know anything about this because I didn't go to college.
I went to a Bible college, so I don't know anything about these either.
But they're arranged in this triangle shape, and there's like some ping pong balls.
It's like, it represents the two trinities of Christianity.
Put a dollar in the heresy jar.
I think, yeah, there's only one trinity.
I think that's correct.
But it does mean, maybe it means that the Trinity is so important, you should think about it twice.
That's not heresy.
So today we're talking to Michael J. Krueger, who is president and Samuel C. Patterson, professor of New Testament and early Christianity at Reform Theological Seminary.
That's a lot of titles.
That is this guy.
He's got a PhD and an M div, and he's a really smart guy, and he's the author of 11 books.
11 is a lot of books.
That is a lot because they take like a year to write.
It takes a lot of your life to write.
11 books.
Most recently, he wrote Surviving Religion 101, Letters to a Christian Student on Keeping the Faith in College.
And that helps you keep the faith in college.
Yeah, so maybe that's why we have these pong cups style.
Some sort of pong game here.
Maybe something fun.
Might be playing with him later.
Will happen.
He also, he's really, he knows a ton about canonization, why the books that are in the Bible are in there.
We talk to him about that.
And also, he has a book, The Ten Commandments of Progressive Christianity.
We run down those Ten Commandments and find out which one is the greatest of them all.
But other than that silly stuff, we do more serious stuff too.
Like read quotes from The Simpsons and see if you can guess which character set them.
Yeah, theological, theological quotes from The Simpsons.
We get in deep into the theological faith-based Simpsons quotes.
If all of that sounds interesting to you, don't hit stop.
Keep watching.
Buckle your B-belts.
Because here we go.
Hello, Dr. Michael.
Oh, hey.
Hey, doctor.
Hey, guys.
How's it going?
Hey, do you make everybody call you doctor?
You can get rid of it, but it seems that people are inclined to do it, but I'd rather Mike is great.
So correct him.
Well, Dr. Mike, Michael Kruger, welcome to the Babylon Bee podcast.
I'm Ethan.
This is Kyle.
We already got that out of the way.
Yeah, we already did that.
Speaking of getting things out of the way, we like to start with an icebreaker.
This is just a way to get to know you better.
The real Michael Krueger.
Not the one that everybody knows.
Theology, canonization, you know, all that stuff.
We want to dig under the tweed jackets and get to know the real Michael.
The man under there.
So, okay, you are a president and a professor of Reformed Theological Seminary.
But imagine you got impeached and cast out from academia.
Or, I don't know.
Did they get impeached?
Is impeached the right word for that?
President.
No, presidents get impeached.
Oh, I see.
You're going with the president thing.
Okay, great.
Fair enough.
And then you also don't know if academia is the word.
Is it seminaria?
How's that?
Well, it depends on what I'm being booted from.
I mean, the academy is a broad sort of thing.
You're booted from all education.
All right, great.
Now, what do you do?
What's your job?
Oh, like, what would I do instead?
Yeah.
Oh, man.
Well, you know, sort of in another life, I would love to be like a sort of go on the professional bass fishing circuit and fish every week.
That would be great.
Or if I had an ultimate dream, I'd love to coach premiership soccer in preferably Liverpool.
So, but I know I wouldn't be able to do that.
Ted Lasso.
You're asking for dreams.
Yeah, dreams.
Yeah.
I love Ted Lasso.
Ted Lasso is actually one of my favorite shows.
Okay.
Even season two?
Especially season two.
I thought I found it stride in season two, actually.
I quit in season two.
I got like on the Christmas episode.
I was like, I'm done.
It lost it for me.
Did you make it to the romantic comedy episode where it's moved to romantic comedies?
If you didn't get there, I got to the best moments of television I've seen in a long time.
It was really well done.
Maybe I'll try again.
I don't know.
I'm having a tough time.
I loved season one so much.
All right.
Well, the ice has been broken.
Well, if you're talking about Ted Lasso, you're melted.
That's true.
I did cry when I watched season one.
Well, we've really gotten Michael to let his hair down.
He has.
And we've gotten to know the real Michael bass fishing, soccer, coaching, Ted Lasso watching, all the important things.
So you have a book called The Ten Commandments of Progressive Christianity.
Yes, I do.
Yeah.
Came out a couple years ago, 2019, I believe.
Do you like it?
Well, yeah, if I wrote it, I hope I approved this message by writing it.
Yes.
Oh, sorry.
That's a stupid question.
Yeah, I mean, I hope it's a helpful little book.
It's not a big one, as you know.
It's small and hopefully accessible to people.
And it's sort of a little bit of a riff off of Machin's Christianity and liberalism.
Well, I know you've got your newer book that we're going to talk about in a little bit, Letters to a Christian Student and Keeping the Faith in College and Surviving Religion 101.
Do you think people are looking at this right now wondering why there are cups everywhere?
We're going to get to that.
Well, explain anything.
I asked that very question when I came on.
I was like, why are there all these right cups?
Yeah, they can see the cups.
Don't worry about the cups.
The cups are coming in shortly when we talk about his book, Surviving Religion 101.
But first, let's rewind to 2019 to the 10 Commandments of Progressive Christianity.
And let's run down these.
And if you want to give us a little elevator pitch or whatever for each one, break down.
Explain what you're talking about and defend it.
Jesus is a model for living more.
Jesus is a model for living more than an object for worship.
This is a commandment.
Oh, so this is what the progressives think.
This is what they think.
Yes.
Yeah.
So step one, as you read these, the listeners know, these are not my 10 commandments.
I defend that idea, Dr. Michael.
These are the 10 commandments of progressive Christians.
So I look at each one critically.
Would they admit this?
Yeah, is this like more of an underlying assumption that they have?
Or they wouldn't say this, right?
No, this is exact quote.
So if the book is based off, or my book is based off a book by a guy named Philip Gully, he wrote a book, If the Church Was Christian, and he has 10 chapters in that book.
And my Ten Commandments are the exact wording of each of his chapters.
Oh, okay.
So I was completely followed by Richard Rohr, who you might know is a well-known sort of spiritualist, so to speak, who also sort of parrots the same Ten Commandments back with slightly different wording.
So yeah, these are their words.
Okay.
Actually, the reason I felt like I could list it this way is because it's not a caricature.
It's actually what they believe.
All right.
So, yeah, let's talk about that first one.
Jesus is a model for living more than an object for worship.
Yeah.
So this is number one for a reason when it comes to progressive Christianity and that's sort of euphemism for liberal Christianity, depending on how you want to take that.
This is the number one thing is to first deny Jesus' distinctive divinity.
So you don't really worship him as God, and then you're left with just him as a good moral teacher.
So what do you do with Jesus?
Well, you follow what he says and you try to be a good person.
So the first of the Ten Commandments is basically just another way to say that you believe in moralism.
The whole idea of religion is just to be a good person.
It doesn't really have to do with worship or salvation.
It has to be with being better.
And that's the essence.
So the first step in all progressive Christianity is to deny the divinity of Jesus and go from there.
It's a bad start.
Not good.
Let's keep going though.
Affirming people's atonement.
Now, this part, this is number two.
Affirming people's potential is more important than reminding them of their brokenness.
Yeah.
So step two in your move towards progressive Christianity.
If step one was deny the divinity of Jesus.
Step two is to deny the sinfulness of humanity.
So you go after the idea that people are born sinful or that are innately sinful and you replace it with the idea that people are innately good.
And so that whole chapter is about that particular misconception, which is this idea that, wow, we should stop talking about people's sin.
We should stop talking about how sinful people are.
Instead, we should just sort of affirm what's great and good in them.
And I try to find a balance in my response.
There is real dignity to humanity.
They are distinctive and have amazing potential as God's image bearers.
But you can't deny the fact that they're marred by the fall.
And when you do that, you end up again with a liberal version of Christianity where there's no real sin problem here.
People can save themselves just by being better.
Okay.
And that's not true.
Not true.
Okay.
Got it.
Number three, the work.
Yeah, just for the record, all 10 of these are not true.
You're such a convincing person.
I'm like, oh, yeah, I agree with that.
Number three, the work of reconciliation should be valued over making judgments.
Yeah, so you can see where this goes.
So like, first, deny the divinity of Jesus.
Second, don't talk about people's sin.
And then third, this is a corollary, is don't judge people.
Don't be judgmental.
And if you talk to any progressive Christian, this is one of the biggest complaints.
Isn't that a quote in scripture?
Yeah, Jesus said, don't judge lest you be judged.
But of course, you have to understand, and I tackle this in the context, what it really means to not judge.
And it doesn't mean you can never say when something's wrong, which is effectively what is being argued by Gully, which is that you stop going around telling people they're wrong, even though that very statement is implying that people are wrong to go around telling people they're wrong.
So there is a bit of an irony there, of course, in that approach is they want to, you know, they wag their finger at evangelicals saying, stop being so judgmental, but you realize they're doing the same thing.
It's one exception.
Well, actually, there's many exceptions I cover in the book of the sort of say one thing and do another.
Okay.
Okay.
So number four, gracious behavior is more important than right belief.
Yeah.
So number four is sort of a salvo against theology.
So what that progressive commandment teaches is that the real problem in the church today is they care too much about theology.
They care too much about doctrine.
If you care too much about theology and doctrine, that just makes you a Pharisee.
So stop caring so much about theology.
Theology is the problem, not the solution.
And we need to get back to just doing the right thing.
What matters is what you do, not what you believe.
And if you're going to be a progressive Christian, that would be straight down the center of the fairway.
Actions matter more than teachings.
That sounds like a teaching to me.
See, you're on it.
you're already doing it, which is, you know, pointing out the sort of inconsistency there with it.
And I try to do that throughout my book.
Thank you.
Number five, inviting questions is more valuable than supplying answers.
Yeah, so this is a common sentiment in progressive Christianity, which is, you know, rhetoric along the lines of, well, you know, the journey is more important than the destination.
What matters is not answers, but questions.
And the real problem with Christianity today is it has too many answers.
It's just too certain.
And so this whole progressive commandment is basically going after the idea that you can know anything for sure and going after the idea of certainty.
And so it's sort of, you know, chiding Christians for being too certain about what they believe.
And that if you really want to be a good religious person, then, you know, uncertainty is the better way to go.
Now, I will say there's a nugget of truth there, depending on what doctrines a Christian holds.
Sometimes Christians are too dogmatic about things that are less certain.
But I make the point that when it comes to the core truths of the faith, that we have good grounds for being sure of what we believe.
Well, what strikes me about all these so far is that there is, like you said, kind of this negative truth, but then they just kind of go to this extreme reactionary position of like, oh, theology is bad because some people react, some people are too far towards the truth side and don't do the grace thing, you know.
And it strikes me that, especially with that one too, that like, yeah, there's probably a place for questioning and there's a place to talk about doubts and all that.
But when that kind of becomes your baseline, then you've got an issue.
Absolutely.
In fact, I say this in the introduction and what I say in the introduction to the book is that these are all half-truths.
So there is definitely an element of truth to each of them that we want to acknowledge.
And that's actually what makes them so persuasive to people.
You know, if they were completely false, then people would just identify them immediately as problematic.
But I think the fact that there's an element of truth in there makes it trickier, right?
And so we want to be sure to acknowledge that, look, there are doubts or I cover this in my book, Surviving Religion 101, that people doubt it's okay to struggle.
You want to be a church that can deal with hard questions.
But at the same time, the idea that doubt is the goal or that certainty is the real problem, I think we want to push back on that.
Number six, kind of similar-ish, encouraging the personal search is more important than group uniformity.
Yeah, so what's interesting about each of these commandments is when you read the title, you're thinking to yourself, what is it exactly they're talking about there?
And obviously you have to read the chapter to know fully, but this particular one is group uniformity is something they say that churches should not go for.
And they basically complain here about churches enforcing their own beliefs or what we might call a theological parlance, something like church discipline, that if someone in your church loses their way morally or loses their way doctrinally and churches actually care about that and do something about that, that's just conforming people to group think.
And so they say, hey, you shouldn't do that.
You shouldn't kick people out of the church.
What doesn't, you know, that just basically is putting an institution over people.
And again, there's a little bit of truth to that, right?
You have to be careful that you're not just defending an institution.
But at the same time, it seems to me that the church has a right to sort of say, hey, it does matter how you live.
And it does matter, of course, what you believe.
It seems like some of these are based on false versions of what the church is.
Like there's nobody that I know that's saying, like, we need to be this completely uniform, you know, almost like this militaristic, you know, it's more of a caricature that gets like a rebellion against the caricature of what.
Yeah, I think that's right.
I think there's some caricatures here.
And I think what happens a lot with people who are in the progressive Christianity camp is they've actually had really bad church experiences, probably in their many of them in their past.
And in their particular church experience, things might have been genuinely bad.
There may have been in an authoritarian church.
They may have been in an abusive church.
They may have been in a church that didn't allow for doubt or conversation.
Those churches are really out there.
And part of what we need to do as Christians is just acknowledge: hey, there's an element of truth to what you experience.
There are some churches like that, and we would be very concerned about that.
I think on the flip side, though, that doesn't define Christianity and it doesn't define all churches, nor should it be used as a reason to sort of remake Christianity completely over into a progressive image.
Number seven, meeting actual needs is more important than maintaining institutions.
Yeah, so this particular chapter is saying, hey, the church has a lot of problems.
You shouldn't just be protecting the institution.
You should be out there helping people in meeting people's needs.
And chapter seven and eight are probably the two chapters where I think the book gets closest to truth, if you want to say it that way.
And I think there's some real truth here in seven and eight, which is the church does have problems.
You don't want to be just sort of defending an institution to defend an institution.
And we really do want to be careful to help people and meet people's needs.
I think the problem is here is that it's presented as one or the other and sort of a false dichotomy, again, which is, well, why can't the church be the agent that God uses to help meet those needs rather than pushing that aside and meeting those needs in some separate way?
So I think you can see the theme emerging here, which is that there's false dichotomies, there's caricatures, there's absolutizing something that shouldn't be absolutized.
Number eight, peacemaking is more important than power.
Oh, I think I took the next one.
Sorry, pal.
No, I think we're right.
You're evens.
I'm odds.
Eight is evil.
Yeah.
So chapter eight, and I say this in my book, chapter eight is a good chapter in many ways that Goalie wrote.
And he's pushing back here against authoritarianism in the church.
And honestly, I think he makes some good points.
The church, and I think we've seen this honestly in the last five to 10 years.
There's some parts of evangelicalism that are high on sort of an authoritarian model of ministry, sort of a top-down, heavy-handed model of ministry.
We've read a lot about abuse in the church over the last few years.
And Goalie's like, hey, those things aren't right.
And I got to say, in chapter eight, I think he's right.
Those things are not right.
And we need to acknowledge them.
I think, once again, there's a little bit of throwing the baby out with the bathwater here, though.
The solution is that sort of therefore reject church authority, but rather find the right way that it should be wielded.
And I think when people have bad experience with church authority, they think the solution is we'll do away with church authority.
The best solution is no authorities.
And I would say, no, the solution is the right authorities that behave rightly.
And so, you know, it's kind of like the same with police.
If you have an abusive police officer, some people say, well, get rid of police officers.
Well, you can see that doesn't work.
But what the solution is, is good police officers that wield their authority rightly.
And so the same thing happens in the church.
Church is abusive and authoritarian.
And the answer is, well, get rid of church or get rid of authority in the church.
And I'm like, hey, I get that.
I get the reaction there, but that's not helping.
For sure.
Number nine.
Now, this one's spicy.
We should care more about love and less about sex.
Cue the sex.
Yeah.
So if seven and eight are his best chapters or best commandments, goalies, nine and ten may be the worst.
And nine is where you start realizing where this is going.
You can't ever have a version of progressive Christianity that doesn't eventually get to sexual issues.
And predictably, as nine suggests in the title there, the idea here is it's very sort of stereotypical.
Look, we should be worried less about sex and more about love.
Don't we want love in the world?
And why is everyone such a so persnickety about sexual boundaries?
Lighten up.
We just need to be encouraging people to love each other.
Why does it matter who or how you love?
And on one level, you hear that and go, oh, that sounds kind of reasonable.
I mean, maybe we should just stop worrying about boundaries and just love each other.
But of course, we know that love requires a definition.
You got to define what you mean when you say love each other, and that God very much cares about the way sexual behavior is among his people.
And wrong sexual behavior can be really damaging to people and to a culture.
And so again, there may be an element here of truth that we want to acknowledge.
Eventually, realize it's headed down a path that Christians historically have not gone.
Now, as a clarification, we have a lot of homeschoolers who listen to this podcast.
Can you explain what sex is?
Maybe the characters.
I challenge the first statement.
I don't know if you have a lot of homeschoolers who listen to this podcast.
That may be your sarcasm.
I don't know.
But I was like, I heard that.
I was like, is that true?
Which I don't ever listen to your body.
Decent number of homeschoolers.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
I imagine like the guy that wrote this commandment, like he got all the way to nine.
I've been following him the whole time.
Like, okay, all right.
Man, you really thought this through.
And he finally gets that.
He's like, so I should be able to sleep around with where I want.
Oh, I see why he did it.
Now we see where you're going.
Yeah, you can see where it's building.
It's like every time they found a cult, they're like, I heard from God.
And you're like, oh, that's interesting.
And then they're like, so all the women should sleep with me.
And you're like, oh, okay.
And all the wives, you know, just all rotating.
It's funny how God gives the same message to all the cult leaders.
It does always boil down to that.
And finally, number 10: life in this world is more important than the afterlife.
Yeah, man.
Yeah.
Just let that one sink in.
This was actually a sad way to end the book.
I was like, oh my gosh.
I mean, it's one thing to go for the, I can now do whatever I want sexually moved.
We kind of, that's kind of predictable.
But the 10th one is just tragic, which is he's actually telling people, don't worry about the afterlife.
Don't worry about eternity.
Just worry about the here and now.
And I was like, oh man, I guess this is sadly the real payoff because Jesus literally said the opposite.
Don't worry about who can kill the body and soul in the present, but who can take that into eternity?
So, you know, I can't imagine a chapter title the more opposite than the Christian message.
The Christian message is you do need to think eternally and you think about eternal matters and not just about the here and now.
And it's when you think about the here and now only and just are myopic about it that you're living a you're heading down a dangerous path.
So so yeah, that's a sad way to end the book.
And I think it just shows you that progressive Christianity will take you some really hard places if you follow it.
So you become a progressive Christian and by the end you're an atheist.
This is always the message.
Yeah, I mean, it's practically so.
I mean, you can still say you believe in God, but if you don't really care about eternal matters, practically you're living like as if God doesn't exist.
Well, anytime you watch like secular media or atheist media, this is always the message that they come out.
Well, if there's no God, then what we do now is what matters.
This is where if nothing matters, then actually everything matters.
I find meaning in creating my which, of course, is a rather ironic.
You're like, well, if there's no God, then eternity doesn't matter, but then if there's no God, then the present doesn't matter either.
It's like, why would I care about saving the environment?
Why would I care about doing any of the things that we're told we need to do if there is no eternal significance to those things?
So yeah, I've never gotten that argument, but I know it's just reinforces number nine, which is what they're going for.
I think ultimately we need to go back to number nine.
Number nine is the ultimate.
There's just one progressive commandment in the end.
Great teacher.
Which of these is the greatest command?
Mint.
Mint.
Oh, you're asking me which of the 10 progressive commandments is number one?
Well, progressive apostles are like teachers.
Teacher.
They're learning at your feet.
I think the greatest commandment.
I think they say, yeah, so I think it's a trickle-down effect.
If number one is true for them and Jesus is not God, he's just a good moral teacher, then you just realize you just pull that one thread and everything else follows from it.
Because now you don't have to really follow him.
He's not God.
He's not divine.
You don't have to worship him.
You just have to try to be a good person.
But of course, even if you try to be a good person, now you just define that yourself.
What counts is good.
Jesus doesn't get to define it for you.
You get to define it yourself.
So you can define good in whatever way you want.
You can define sex in whatever way you want.
So the ultimate move in progressive Christianity is towards autonomy.
The move is, I get to decide these things for myself.
I make my own values.
I make my own decisions.
I make my own morality.
And you get all that from the first one.
So the first one really is first for a reason.
Are there really a lot of progressive Christians that just straight up deny the divinity of Christ?
Because I seem to see more often that they push back against him being like exclusive, the exclusive way to God.
Well, there's a bunch of different iterations of it.
You're right.
I mean, progressive Christianity is a very vague term, isn't it?
So there's people all over the continuum.
Some would, Goalie in his book, and I say this in my book, flat out denies the divinity of Jesus multiple times, very plainly.
So he's one of those guys that's like, no, no, no, he's not worthy of your worship.
He's just a guy.
He even denies his sinlessness.
He's saying he's a sinner, too.
And then you got some people who want to nuance it.
Maybe Jesus was partly divine or so special as a prophet that he was kind of perfect, but maybe not God.
And there's some middle ground there.
Yes.
So it's not just one type of progressive Christianity that's out there.
Okay.
All right.
Well, that's been a good discussion about the 10 commandments of progressive Christianity.
And now we're going to play theology root beer pong.
Root beer pong.
So you wrote a book called Surviving Religion 101 Letters to a Christian Student on Keeping the Faith in College.
So we came up with this game that can help prepare kids to go to college.
So that's the root beer part.
Root beer.
So they should try this game instead of that devil's pong that they other college kids are playing these days.
Yeah.
All right.
So what we're going to do is there's three categories of question.
Under each cup is a number.
One of the questions will be a theology question.
One category could be a deeply, deeply personal question.
Spicy.
And the third ones are questions about monkeys.
So wow, let's avoid the monkey questions, please.
I don't know if I can go there.
And I'm terrible at beer pong because I'm so holy.
I've never played it.
I don't even know the rules, to be honest with you.
And technically, it's crimson.
Why do I believe nothing you guys are saying right now?
But okay.
I have legitimately never played beer pong.
All right, here we go.
Here we go.
Am I going first?
Don't forget to do this publicly.
Oh.
Nice try.
Oh, you have to bounce it?
Well, if you bounce it.
One bounce.
That can take forever.
How does this guy know the rules to beer pong?
Catholic, man.
They don't correct him.
Root beer pong.
Root beer beer pong.
Thank you.
That's all I have.
No, I was asking him, the Reformed Theological Seminary.
Oh, it's my turn to do about the rules.
We're Presbyterians, remember.
Oh, that's true.
This is going to take forever.
Come on.
You got to get more air.
There we go.
Finally.
Boom.
All right.
Here we go.
I got to drink.
Oh, you got to drink it in the question.
Two.
All right.
Deeply personal questions.
Tell us about your first kiss.
Oh, my God.
You guys weren't kidding.
Don't I get a pass or a phone or friend?
You could do nothing.
You can pass.
Yeah, you can say, do a.
Yeah, that'll be for another day, another conversation.
If you want that answer, you're going to have to play real.
We got to get you drinking.
Yeah, you got to get you drinking more root beer.
Okay, fine.
What keeps you awake at night?
Oh, wow.
They're all deeply personal.
Wow, those are one was one was lighthearted at least, and the other one's very serious.
You can answer facetiously.
You can be like, oh.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, honestly, recently I've been staying awake at night just with, you know, I have a child who's a senior in high school, heading off to college, and we're in the middle of praying and thinking about next steps in his life.
And so I've been actually up late at night thinking about that whole process and what's coming for him and so forth.
So I guess like any father, sometimes you lay awake at night thinking about your kids.
So I would imagine that I probably lose most of sleep over them in a good way because I love them.
My turn?
Yeah.
You didn't tell me a sucker to do it.
I know.
Do you want me to do it?
Yeah, I get somebody sent in for me.
No, this makes it.
Yeah, Patrick.
Patrick, take over for me.
Celebrity shot in.
You can't tag teeth.
I figured you guys would have practiced.
Come on now.
No, we don't.
Gotta go for that.
No elbows over.
Oh, that looks spun off the thing.
One more, one more.
Oh, yes.
Look at this spin.
So you technically could take that.
That's crazy.
All right.
This guy's like Bill Nice.
Patrick's got it.
I can see it.
It's the number three.
So you're getting a question about monkeys.
We try to put more theology ones in.
At least that fits with the Pong game.
Chimpanzees target the face, hands, and groin in an attack.
In an attack.
With that in mind, the chimpanzee is coming at you.
What do you do to defend yourself?
Man, I would hope to crawl up on a ball and put my head down so he can't go for any of those orifices, I guess.
That's probably a good.
My theory is that they get the hands because people are using that to cover up the other two.
As a Christian, you know God's always there for you, but sometimes things in this life can feel downright overwhelming, and you just need to talk to someone.
That's right.
That's why the online counselors at faithfulcounseling.com are there for you.
Connect with a professional Christian counselor in a safe and private online environment.
It's so convenient.
It is, and it's nice that you can talk to someone who shares your faith and values.
People that specialize in depression, stress, anxiety, relationships, crisis of faith issues.
You're not going to get that with an atheist counselor.
I'll tell you what.
Right.
And there's four communication modes: text, chat, phone, and video.
You can start communication under 24 hours.
Desktop, mobile, web, Android.
Man, they got everything.
There's financial aid available for those who qualify.
It's affordable, faith-based.
So check it out.
You can go to faithfulcounseling.com/slash Babylon B and you'll get 10% off your first month at that URL.
Yeah, why not get started today?
Go to faithfulcounseling.com/slash Babylon B. What was that again?
Oh, that's right.
It was faithfulcounseling.com/slash Babylon B. Simply fill out a questionnaire to help them assess your needs and get matched with a counselor that you're going to love.
10% off.
Check it out.
Check it.
I knew this would be a unique podcast, but you guys are asking.
All right, we got another one.
Yeah, this is definitely.
Oh, another monkey question.
Another monkey question.
We apologize, sir.
All right.
What counts as two?
Bounce.
Bouncing counts as two.
Oh, okay.
Who wins in a fight?
Planet of the apes versus planet of the bears.
Oh, planet of the apes by a mile.
Because the planet of the apes, if you're going with the plot of the story, they're highly intelligent.
Almost at a human level.
Could be too.
I mean, they're equal on the.
Okay, so we're now going for super bears versus super team chimpanzees.
I'm still going with chimpanzees because they have the ability to build things with their hands and handle a gun, whereas a bear could never shoot a gun because it doesn't have any sort of opposable thumbs kind of thing.
So opposable thumbs is still sticking with the championse.
Incorrect.
Incorrect.
Oh, there's actually a correct answer to that question.
Okay.
Well, because they're apes.
They're not monkeys.
Fail.
Oh, okay.
Well, still, I'm still going with the apes on that over the bears.
So he said you have to take another two.
Yeah, you just drink.
There's another because I bounced it.
Yeah.
It's a theology question.
Finally, finally.
Finally.
Something like maybe have a little bit of hope of getting right.
All right.
What do you got against the Apocrypha?
Is that really the question?
Well, it depends what you mean by have against.
The Apocrypha is a reference to intertestamental books that are in Roman Catholic Bibles that aren't in Protestant Bibles, and they're really technically Old Testament canon books.
So like 1, 2, Maccabees, Judith, Tobit, etc.
I have nothing against them.
I think they're fascinating historically.
I think they're useful.
I think they are helpful framing out the history of Israel post-Old Testament times, but I don't think they're scripture.
And that, of course, is a reason that I'm a Protestant.
And the reason I don't think they're scripture is because I don't believe those are the books that Jesus and the apostles viewed as scripture.
So in other words, when we look in the New Testament and books are cited from the Old Testament as scripture, you don't see a single instance ever, not even once, of a book from the Apocrypha cited as scripture.
Yeah, I heard you on another podcast.
I did do research.
I heard that answer.
I was like, oh, that's fascinating.
Yeah, they never cite those books at all throughout the whole New Testament.
And also how much they cite the Old Testament.
Oh, yeah.
Thousands and thousands of citations.
Another theology.
And I bounced it, by the way.
How's it bounce?
All right.
How do we know we are reading the Bible correctly if sola scriptura is correct?
Trying to understand the nature of the question.
So in other words, if you believe in sola scriptura, how then can you know if you're reading the Bible correctly if presumably the Bible is the only authority?
Okay, so it's circular.
Yeah, I'm assuming that's the nature of what the question is trying to get at.
Well, I think it might be a misunderstanding of sola scriptura.
Sola scriptura is often misunderstood to mean the Bible is the only authority.
That's not what it means.
It means the Bible's the ultimate or highest authority, not the only authority.
So one authority in the life of the believer is the authority of the church, legitimately, and the history of the church and the union of saints over history.
It's just that those don't trump the Bible, but they are illuminating in terms of how to interpret the Bible and understand the Bible.
So in that regard, you can use all kinds of helps to interpret the Bible correctly, even though the Bible itself is the highest court for anything you believe.
So solo scriptura does not mean we have no basis for interpreting the Bible correctly.
All right.
But what I love, by the way, is when I'm halfway through my answer, the ponging starts again.
It's like you're at the Oscars, you know, and the music cues up.
Like, you need to stop talking now.
No, it's great.
Lowers, it's perfect.
I know to stop talking if you guys are.
Okay, but you're a college professor, so you're used to this.
Like, you're talking, you're giving your speech, and then all of a sudden, yeah, you guys are like, we're done.
That's it.
Start the long part.
We're at a college party and this guy's talking about the Bible.
You got to say, yeah, cool, man.
I mean, this is what kids need to prepare themselves for is to have a lot of people.
Exactly right.
You're just living out my surviving religion.
Wait, hang on.
Is the score six to one?
I have two more.
I just drank a cup.
I got more.
So, okay.
One.
Six to one.
Well, one more question.
Okay.
Six.
Good.
It's root beer.
Yeah.
I had one that I wanted to ask.
Is it in here?
Oh, yeah.
Oh, no.
I'm just going to ask a random one.
Oh, yeah.
Why do we trust Paul when he says, I'm speaking the words of God, but not your neighbor Charlie, who raises parrots?
Well, for one, if he raises parrots, I already have my doubts about.
Right?
Isn't that like a giveaway to line your sum up the guy?
I don't know where the parrot is.
I'm not going to have a parrot on his shoulder.
Immediately you're like, I have a parrot.
Yeah.
So, I mean, this is true.
I forgot about that.
This gets to the fundamental nature of Revelation.
So obviously, the only person we can listen to ultimately to know what's true is God himself.
The next question is, how does God speak?
Well, God has chosen to speak through his official agents, which we call prophets generally in the Old Testament and apostles in the new.
He doesn't speak through everybody.
He doesn't speak to your neighbor, especially a neighbor that raises parrots.
He doesn't even speak through you and I in that way.
You have to be a prophet or apostle and sanction to be God's mouthpiece.
And how do you know who apostles and prophets are?
Well, they have all kinds of authenticating signs, typically miracles and supernatural wonders, which are true for both the apostles and the prophets.
And so, obviously, you can't go back in time and witness all that, but we do have the record of scripture that gives us confidence that Paul was a genuine apostle and that we would listen to his words differently than you listen to your pastor or a neighbor.
Thus, the plonging again at the very last bouncing in, right?
I think I have one more.
You're like, okay, you're done.
All right, so one more from you, one more from me.
Oh, two more for me, really.
Monkey question.
All right, this is kind of an analysis question.
Why do you think monkeys throw poop?
Try to get in their head.
Man, you guys are hilarious with these questions.
Well, I mean, it's probably their version of, you know, throwing shame on someone else, I'm guessing.
Like, I don't like you.
That's their best best way to do that is to throw them monkeys.
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, it's like basically you're done.
You're dead to me.
I'm throwing feces on you.
So you're out of the tribe.
You got one now?
There's a lot of quite a bit of cream soda in each one of these.
I know.
Didn't need to be that much.
All right.
So you got a double.
So I got two cups that were both theology questions.
And that will end our beer pong.
Root beer pong.
Two theology questions.
So you look down.
By the way, I noticed the Freudian slip there to the beer pong.
Oh, sorry.
Yeah, root beer.
I think I didn't hear that.
Apostrophe beer pong.
Did Martin Luther want to kick the book of James out of the Bible?
Okay, so Luther was very critical of James.
We know this.
Luther, you know, had strident views on lots of things, some of which were certainly on the edge.
And even looking back, some of those things we would probably be uncomfortable with.
And he did critique the book of James as an epistle of straw, largely because it was all ethics and law, and he thought it had no gospel in it.
Now, we would disagree with James, or sorry, disagree with Luther on that.
We think just having law doesn't mean you're against the gospel.
It depends on the way you hold the law.
If it's flowing out of grace, then it's fine.
If you use it as meritorious works righteousness, then obviously it wouldn't be.
But James is not the latter.
James understands that everything's rooted in faith.
In fact, he does that in James 2.
The works you do flow from faith.
Now, just one side note: Luther backed off this later in his life and was not as stringent about James as he grew older.
So, you know, he kind of mellowed a bit, you might say, in his later years.
Okay.
And a lot of churches.
I made one.
I thought you wanted to do it.
We're not going, but I just want to see if I can make it.
You guys are getting better.
A lot of churches are focusing on racial reconciliation or social justice.
Is this a good thing?
Or is this something that churches are focusing on instead of the gospel?
Sorry, I've drunk a lot of cream soda.
Yeah, so, well, look, I mean, I think we want to affirm, first of all, the Bible cares very much about issues related to justice.
It's in the Bible.
It cares about racial harmony.
That's also in the Bible.
The gospel is for all nations, irrespective of race or ethnicity.
And that God, and we see this in Revelation six and beyond, which is in the new heavens and new earth, we're going to see people from every tribe, tongue, and nation there.
And so, in as much as their conflict in strife between races, and honestly, you know, that's on a, we see that, that's all over the place in our history and still a problem today.
So, yeah, the Bible has a lot to say about that.
Does that mean that every particular attempt to solve it is healthy and that everything we see around to try to deal with the problem of reconciliation is the right way to go about it?
Obviously, we'd want to try to solve it in the most biblically faithful way we can.
And not every attempt to do that is necessarily going to be faithful to scripture.
Some will be better than others.
But I think the church is obligated to speak into injustice when they see it.
Is that antithetical to preaching the word?
No, because when you preach the word, part of the word's message is God cares about these issues.
And we just want to make sure that we're dealing with them in a biblical manner.
All right.
Well, good job.
Bro?
Can I ask you the last monkey question just because I'm going to be a little bit more bro thrown in there?
Yeah, monkey question.
Yeah.
Would you ever eat a burrito made of barbecue-pulled monkey?
I am not inclined to eat monkey, just for the record.
So it's barbecue-pulled monkey.
It's a really tender.
No, I'd have to have some precedent to think that's good.
And I don't even know how I'd get there.
So there's probably countries that eat monkey.
I don't know which ones they are.
Probably.
Sounds like it'd be really stringy to me.
All right.
Good job.
I think it would taste bananas.
Let's jump back in the seats.
Like for like 15 minutes, all I heard is voices from who knows where and the bone balls flying around.
Experimental show.
Disembodied.
Yes.
This is about what I expected on the Babylon Bee, what I've just experienced there.
That's what we want.
You guys should know you're meeting my expectations.
Okay, perfect.
All right.
So now for something more serious, because that was a little too goofy.
We're going to go.
We heard from, you know, our buddy Adam reached out to you, kind of get some preliminary information on you.
We found out you're a big fan of The Simpsons.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Love The Simpsons.
So we want to analyze some faith-based quotes from The Simpsons.
Oh, you want to talk about why you like Simpsons so much?
Well, I mean, I'm happy to.
I mean, I've watched The Simpsons for a long time.
Obviously, it's been running the longest running show in U.S. history, maybe television history for that matter.
But I'm more of a seasons five to 15 guy.
I feel like, you know, once you started crossing over to the 20 season mark, I didn't find it as compelling.
And I think the sort of middle to earlier years were, I think, the most brilliant.
And their satire was phenomenally insightful and funny.
Real quick, do you want to explain to the homeschoolers listening what The Simpsons is?
Simpsons started on the Tracy Allman Show, which a lot of people forget.
It was actually a short on the Tracy Allman show and then spun off into its own series, Matt Groening being the main sort of genius behind it.
And I don't know what are they up to now?
30?
Is it 30 years?
30 something.
Something like that.
Crazy.
It's just the story of a family of five called The Simpsons.
That's obviously a cartoon.
They're yellow.
They're yellow.
They have four fingers in every hand.
And it's set in a statement.
Except for God.
That's right.
Set in a town called Springfield, which you never know what state it's in because they've kept that secret for 30 years, but they always tip you close to where they think it might be and then pull out the camera at the last minute when you're going to find out.
So it's just the life of this family in this town.
And the father is kind of a bumbling guy named Homer.
And the mother is a saint named Marge.
And they have three kids, Bart.
Well, Lisa, if an age of, if you go by age, it would be Lisa and Maggie.
And they can Wikipedia the rest at this point.
I appreciate your very sincere to explain to the homeschoolers.
Well, you know, I want them to be part of culture too.
Yeah.
The teacher in your blood.
All right.
So this is going to be kind of a test here because you are competing for something big.
We're going to give you a quote.
You tell us who you think said it.
If you get it right, you get 10 seconds of free advertising on the Babylon B podcast.
What am I advertising?
Whatever you want.
Whatever I want.
Yeah.
Or whatever you want.
Yeah.
It could be anything.
But if you get it wrong, you lose 10 seconds.
Yeah.
Far away.
Does he have to do it?
No, it doesn't seem to be a good thing.
I don't want to get in the negative.
We're going to cut this show short.
All right.
Ready?
Let's do it.
I've done everything the Bible says, even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff.
That's got to be Ned Flanders.
Nailed it 10 seconds, put it on the somebody who keeps putting on the scoreboard.
What if we chose the wrong religion?
Each week we just make God matter and matter.
Well, that's a skeptic, which would probably be Homer.
I'm going to guess with Homer.
Are we doing an analysis on these at all?
Are we going to just read them off?
I want to see what he had says about contradictions.
Oh, you want to?
Yeah, I mean, I can't.
You want me to sort of, I love Ned.
You can unpack.
You want me to unpack?
Yeah, that's a good point.
Well, yeah, I mean, Ned is the quintessential evangelical on the show, right?
Who's kind-hearted and friendly to all around him and really a remarkably honest character.
But then he has these moments of doubt that flash up throughout the whole series.
And the quote, if I'm remembering correctly, was one of those where I think a lot of tragedies happened to him and he feels like the God's not doing the right thing to me because I've always followed him, even parts that contradict the other parts.
And that's their jab, Simpson's staff, I think, throwing in there.
The Bible still is contradictory, even for those who think it's great.
But it was like a crisis of faith for obviously Ned.
You can tell there's like a contempt for his character from the writers, but then also a thing that happens in story writing is it's hard not to, you need a character that is morally motivated to do the right thing.
And it's hard to just avoid that constantly.
I don't know.
I can't get into their heads, but there's something fascinating to be there where like.
It's funny.
They definitely make fun of Ned.
Yeah.
But I wouldn't have used the term contempt.
I think they actually paint Ned incredibly with incredible integrity.
They just sort of mock him as sort of silly in just what religious people are.
And then Homer, who obviously is the sort of main character of the show, is shown to be sort of a deadbeat dad half the time, and he's lazy and he's drunk.
And so it's weird.
They're honest about their foibles, but so they know Ned's a great guy in terms of his character, but he's just weird and strange, like all evangelicals are in the minds of.
Can they make him like the devil at some point?
I don't know.
Yeah, one of the dreams, one of Homer's dreams.
I guess Homer comes to him and trust him.
He probably knows the exact episode number.
Did he get the last one right?
He did.
He's got 20 seconds of free advertising.
All right.
All right.
Okay, here's the next one.
We're here to bring you back to the one true faith, the Western branch of American Reform Presby Lutheranism.
You can't say the accent.
That's just going to hit me.
Well, I would have gotten it anyway, but that's a pretty good Reverend Lovejoy.
Yeah, that's good.
He's funny.
And speaking of the staff kind of poking, they've got him down.
I mean, if Ned is the quintessential evangelical neighbor, Reverend Lovejoy is sort of your classic sort of half-jaded, you know, pastor who you're like, do I trust this guy or not?
And, you know, he does weird things and says strange stuff.
But yeah, that's good.
I was at Bible Camp.
I was learning how to be more judgmental.
That's got to be one of Ned's kids.
Is it Rod or Todd?
So close.
So close.
Very close.
Maude Flanders.
Oh, man.
So I was in the right family.
Was she a Bible camp?
Oh, I guess a women's Battle Camp or something.
It sounded like a kid.
Okay.
But I was at least in the Flanders network there.
All right.
Yeah, so you owe us 10 seconds of advertising.
So that he's had like a little stock there.
Didn't you pull back?
I didn't have 20 seconds.
You're at 20 now, I think, is the net.
Okay.
Okay.
If you're a really good person, but you're in a really bad fight and your leg gets gangrene and it has to be amputated, will it be waiting for you in heaven?
Whoa.
So guess what?
Deep theological question.
If you're a really good person, but you're in a really, really bad fight and your leg gets gangrene and has to be amputated, will it be waiting for you in heaven?
Golly.
Guess, and then we want your theological.
Yeah, I think you have the answer.
Imagine you're here.
This is probably one of the characters in Sunday school asking the question, I'm guessing.
I don't know.
I could be wrong.
Sounds like something like Mo Sislak would say.
I don't know.
Who is that one?
Bart Simpson.
Bart Simpson.
Oh, is that Bart?
Yeah.
Okay.
There you go.
All right.
You're down to just 10 seconds of freedom.
Man, started well.
Okay.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to appear on a tortilla in Mexico.
Wait, he didn't answer the question of Bart Simpson.
Yeah, we want the question.
Is your leg.
Do you get your leg back in heaven?
Actually, this is an interesting theological conversation is the continuity between your earthly body and your heavenly body.
What form do you take?
Yeah, exactly.
So am I in heaven at 25 or am I having it when at the age I die?
Or do you follow?
Do you need legs?
Yeah, I mean, so the answer is we don't fully know.
We do know there's enough continuity that you're the same person.
And we also know that at least in Jesus' case, there's enough continuity that he could actually point to the scars.
So there's a lot there we don't know.
He has one finger at least.
Heresy jar.
Oh, don't I owe something to the heresy jar?
What did I say yesterday?
Oh, I said, I asked God to magically bless the food.
Did you say magically?
I said magically.
Maybe it's like transubstantiation.
Are you asking it to change into something else?
Yes.
Okay.
So here's your next one.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to appear on a tortilla in Mexico.
So I believe that's from the famous quote-unquote God episode.
That's God speaking.
Nailed it.
Nailed it.
And also, you have to put money in the heresy jar.
Yeah.
I'm not saying God's going to appear on a tortilla.
I didn't say I agreed with the theology of the Simpsons.
I just said I enjoyed the Simpsons.
It's fun.
Don't get defensive.
I'm just saying.
We're at 20 seconds now, I think.
All right.
I don't know if we should pray for our own enjoyment.
That sounds like a sin.
That's got to be Ned.
Are we back to Ned?
I'm going with Ned on that one.
Wait, who's that?
That's Rod.
Rod Flanders.
Oh, coach.
One of the kids.
One of the kids.
I should just be able to say Flanders family and just lump them all together and get some credit.
Am I really going to pick between Rod and Todd?
I think if you had said one of the kids, we would have explained.
By the way, the fact that the names rhyme is just perfect.
That's me.
They have nailed.
There is somebody on the inside of the Simpsons that understands evangelicals in a frightful accurate way.
Talk.
All right.
Is he at 10 seconds now?
I've said 10 seconds of ever.
10 seconds.
You got 10 seconds.
Ned, have you considered any of the other major religions?
They're all pretty much the same.
I'm wondering if this is a conversation with Reverend Lovejoy again, because it sounds like Ned goes to him for a crisis and he gets that counsel.
I'm going to go with Lovejoy on that.
That's right.
I think he does this when he calls him at 2 a.m. or something.
And he's like, you just thought about it.
I mean, Reverend Lovejoy, Ned is like his horn in the side, man.
He's always like, no, not again.
You take it way more seriously than he does.
Oh, yeah.
Of course, that's the comedy, right?
So you got the really devoted evangelical neighbor, but the pastor is sort of jaded and not really halfway into it.
Agree or disagree with Reverend Lovejoy's statement.
Well, I disagree, obviously.
And this is his pluralism, like Christianity is just one of many good choices.
He tells Ned basically to calm down.
Don't take it so seriously.
Reverend Lovejoy is a great mainline pastor, honestly.
I mean, it fits perfectly.
He probably liked my book, Progressive Christianity.
Could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that he himself could not eat it?
Somebody a skeptic.
Oh.
Is the question stumping you or who said it stumping you?
This is who said it stumped me.
You know, Bart was the one with the gangring leg, but I don't know.
That sounds like Homer to me.
I'm going to go with Homer on that.
Wow.
Doing good.
Yeah, got it.
It's good.
Okay.
He's not lying.
He watched The Simpsons.
And by the way, the burrito thing is just a riff off that, you know, can God make a rock so big that he can't move it kind of thing.
Or Dwayne Johnson.
Can you make the Dwayne Johnson big enough?
Can't lift him.
Prayer has no place in public schools, just like facts have no place in organized religion.
Agree or disagree.
You said that.
Say that one more time.
Prayer has no place in public schools, just like facts have no place in organized religion.
I wouldn't have gotten this one.
It could be.
Well, you've got Seymour Skinner, who's the school principal.
He wouldn't have said that, but the Superintendent Chalmers might have said that.
Wow, amazing.
Nailed it.
Wow.
Is that who said it?
Yeah.
Okay, yeah.
It's great.
I don't even know that that guy that name.
Is he stealth Googling these?
This is crazy.
Yeah, he's Googling.
That's amazing.
No Googling.
Like, I hear laughing through.
Yeah, no.
They love us.
This probably is embarrassing how well I know this actor.
It's probably going to be you guys not to post this podcast.
That's incredible.
Can we just do a few more?
Let's do a few more.
Okay.
If the Bible has taught us nothing else and it hasn't, it's that girls should stick to girl sports, such as hot oil wrestling, foxy boxing, and such and such.
That's got to be Homer.
Who else could it be?
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
Once something has been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
I'm trying to stumble.
Well, Ned wouldn't have said that.
I'm trying to stump him because I know you're trying to do some hard ones.
I don't want him to have a lot of advertising.
One more time?
Once something has been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
It may be Homer again, but it sounds like Reverend Lovejoy would have said that too.
Big one.
Going with Reverend Lovejoy.
Got it.
Got it.
Get more free advertising.
Dude, I'm going to love this free advertising, man.
I'm going to take you guys up on this.
There we go.
Advertise my own website.
Which I will now change to The Simpsons.
Let's do two more.
Two more?
Yeah.
That's a Catholic thing, Marge.
You might as well ask me to do a voodoo dance.
I mean, you said it a little bit like Ned, so I'm going with Ned on that.
He fooled you.
Fooled you.
Reverend Lovejoy.
He fooled me.
Was it Lovejoy?
Okay.
Okay.
Doc that time.
That just sounds too much like that character.
This is the last one.
Okay, last one.
Lies make baby Jesus cry.
Oh, I remember this.
Dang it.
I remember this episode.
I want to say Bart.
I'm going to go with Bart on this.
Rod Flanders.
Rod Flanders.
Was it Rod?
Oh, that's right.
You know why he was, I think he was playing a board game with Bart when he said it now that I remember.
Okay, well, can't get them all.
All right.
How much advertising does he have?
40 seconds?
Wow.
Okay.
Are you ready for your free advertising?
Okay, get ready.
Oh, hey, Kyle.
What are you looking on your laptop there?
Oh, hey, Ethan.
I didn't see you there.
I was looking at Michael J. Kruger's website, canonfodder, at michaeljkruger.com.
This wonderful website explores the origins of the New Testament canon and other biblical and theological issues.
How would you say it's improved your life?
I'm glad you asked.
I noticed it really upped your root beer pong game.
That's correct.
It improved my marriage.
I no longer hate walnuts.
And it's got plenty of tips for fighting chimpanzees.
So check out michaeljkruger.com today.
And enter the code Babylon Bee.
That's all Caps one word for a fun surprise.
Code may not actually work.
We just made it up right now.
All right, well, we're going to go to the subscriber portion now.
And we're just going to get a little casual conversation about canonization, maybe some other questions.
We're going to ask you our 10 questions we ask every guest we have on the show.
Thanks for being a good sport through this ridiculous episode of the Babylon Bee interview show.
This should be unique for sure for both of us.
Coming up next for Babylon Bee subscribers.
You were like God's Not Dead real life.
Well, I've seen the movie God's Not Dead.
It wasn't quite that way, but where do you even begin studying canonization?
Where do you even start with that?
Have you ever heard of Mark Driscoll and do you like him?
Have I heard of Mark Driscoll?
Enjoying this hard-hitting interview?
Become a Babylon Bee subscriber to hear the rest of this conversation.
Go to BabylonB.com slash plans for full-length ad-free podcasts.
Kyle and Ethan would like to thank Seth Dylan for paying the bills, Adam Ford for creating their job, the other writers for tirelessly pitching headlines, the subscribers, and you, the listener.