Alex Jones Show - 20240106_Sat_Alex
Aired: 2024-01-06
Duration: 03:41:52


=== Why Zero Hedge Matters (05:20) ===

[00:00:02]  Trump's mobile, a peaceful protest.
[00:00:06]  Political violence is never, ever acceptable in the United States political system.
[00:00:11]  Never, never, never.
[00:00:13]  It has no place in a democracy.
[00:00:15]  None.
[00:00:16]  Give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country.
[00:00:22]  So let's start marching and I salute you all.
[00:00:25]  USA!
[00:00:29]  That's what happens when election lies are pushed through the media.
[00:00:32]  Who has the ultimate authority to deploy the National Guard?
[00:00:35]  The ultimate authority rests with Trump.
[00:00:37]  He saw people saying hang Mike Pence.
[00:00:39]  He was instigating violence against Mike Pence.
[00:00:41]  The U.S. Department of Homeland Security had already declared that the greatest threat to the U.S. homeland was not ISIS or al-Qaeda, but instead domestic extremists, far-right extremists to be exact.
[00:00:52]  So let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue.
[00:00:55]  I want to thank you all.
[00:00:57]  God bless you and God bless America.
[00:01:01]  Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the second Zero Hedge Debate.
[00:01:22]  It is an honor and a privilege to be asked to moderate this debate.
[00:01:25]  I'm Ian Crossland.
[00:01:26]  I'm going to be moderating tonight.
[00:01:27]  And the debate tonight is going to be about January 6th, 2021.
[00:01:32]  Some things happened on that day, and we're going to be talking about them from start to finish as best as possible.
[00:01:35]  We have an incredible panel of human beings that I'm going to be introducing shortly.
[00:01:39]  But before I do, I want to talk a little bit about Zero Hedge, who's putting on the debate.
[00:01:42]  Zero Hedge was a company founded in 2009.
[00:01:44]  It's a libertarian, fiercely independent and counterculture news organization.
[00:01:48]  They are also, they have, on their website, they have a premium service that I want to talk about before we get started.
[00:01:54]  You can go to zerohedge.com and sign up for the premium service, bypassing the advertisements to get exclusive financial, economic, and geopolitical knowledge and data.
[00:02:03]  It's highly articulate information.
[00:02:06]  It's a great, really great organization.
[00:02:08]  And it also gives you access to the secret Twitter feed or the X feed, formerly known as Twitter.
[00:02:12]  What's up, Elon, in case you're listening, with market-moving financial advice, real-time updates.
[00:02:18]  It's a great service.
[00:02:18]  So you can go to zerohedge.com, sign up for the premium service and get started there.
[00:02:23]  And from there, we're going to jump into it.
[00:02:25]  I want to introduce our panel of incredible people, as I said earlier.
[00:02:28]  And I'm going to start from the end and give you guys a chance to introduce yourselves.
[00:02:31]  We have Ed Krasenstein.
[00:02:33]  Yeah, how's it going?
[00:02:34]  I'm Ed Krassenstein.
[00:02:35]  You know me on X at Ed Krassen, also the twin brother of Brian.
[00:02:40]  Thanks for pointing out that it's Krassenstein, not Krasenstein.
[00:02:43]  Well, it can actually be either.
[00:02:44]  You can do Krassenstein or Krassenstein, and I really don't care what you use.
[00:02:48]  It's Frankenstein, not Stein.
[00:02:50]  Frankenstein.
[00:02:52]  That was Alex Jones, if you didn't know.
[00:02:54]  We also have Brian Krasenstein.
[00:02:56]  Hey, Ian, it's great to be here.
[00:02:58]  I'm Brian Krassenstein, known as Krassenstein on X. Ed's slightly better looking and more intelligent twin brother.
[00:03:07]  And modest as well.
[00:03:08]  Probably the most modest of the Krasensteins.
[00:03:11]  Next to Brian, we have Stephen Bonnell, known as Destiny.
[00:03:14]  What's happening, man?
[00:03:15]  Hey, what's up?
[00:03:16]  You know me on YouTube at Destiny.
[00:03:18]  My real life name is Steven, and I scream and shout at people on the internet for a living.
[00:03:21]  Next to this dude, we got Alex Jones.
[00:03:25]  Alex, explain yourself.
[00:03:27]  Well, I don't think I probably needed much of an introduction, but I mean, I was there on January 6th, and I saw what happened.
[00:03:34]  And so it's a very important discussion we're about to have tonight.
[00:03:38]  I'm glad everybody came.
[00:03:40]  We need to have more of this, not just left and right, but just different groups of people debating and discussing.
[00:03:45]  I'm really glad that Zero Hedge and their great subscription service, people supporting it, is financing this.
[00:03:52]  And so you're going to see a lot more of this with people supporting Zero Hedge.
[00:03:55]  And so I'm just honored to be here with you guys in Austin, Texas.
[00:03:59]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:03:59]  Shout out to Zero Hedge.
[00:04:00]  Great company.
[00:04:01]  Great people, too.
[00:04:01]  Really great people involved with the company.
[00:04:03]  And to your left, my right, Darren Beattie.
[00:04:05]  What's happening, man?
[00:04:06]  Great to be here.
[00:04:07]  Thank you.
[00:04:07]  I'm Darren Beattie.
[00:04:09]  I run a news site called Revolver.news, which is reported extensively on January 6th.
[00:04:14]  And you can also see me on X at DarrenJB.
[00:04:18]  And you're a Trump advisor and speechwriter.
[00:04:21]  Yes.
[00:04:21]  And a former professor.
[00:04:23]  And you helped quarterback a lot of the groundbreaking stuff that Tucker Carlson put up.
[00:04:28]  Indeed.
[00:04:28]  So I'll send your prices insurance.
[00:04:30]  Thank you.
[00:04:30]  And we also have coming in remote live, Glenn Greenwald from your studio in Brazil.
[00:04:35]  What's happening, Glenn?
[00:04:37]  Hey, everybody.
[00:04:38]  Glenn Greenwald.
[00:04:38]  I'm a journalist.
[00:04:39]  I'm the host of System Update on Rumble.
[00:04:42]  I had planned to be there in person.
[00:04:44]  A little logistical problems intervened, and I wish I could be, but I'm really looking forward to participating.
[00:04:48]  And I just want to echo Alex.
[00:04:50]  Think what Zero Hedge is doing is so important, organizing these kind of substantive structured debates among people who obviously disagree pretty strongly on things and yet nonetheless can have what I hope will be a civil and spirited debate, what I expect it will be.
[00:05:02]  So I'm really looking forward to it and I appreciate being asked.
[00:05:05]  Yes, that is my job is to make sure that it maintains civility, structure, organization, and that we don't talk over each other, that we end up listening to each other.

=== Was It an Insurrection? (03:23) ===

[00:05:13]  The real value of humanity, one of the most powerful tools we have is communication.
[00:05:16]  So I think tonight's going to be an exemplary example of that.
[00:05:21]  Let's go.
[00:05:22]  Let's go for this.
[00:05:23]  The first question I got for you guys, and this is really for the entire panel.
[00:05:26]  And anyone that wants to start it off, maybe we can start with you, Edson, just because you're on the end and we can move around is January 6th, 2021.
[00:05:32]  Was it an insurrection?
[00:05:34]  And before you answer, before you answer, I want to read this.
[00:05:37]  This is actually what the, it's called 18 U.S. Code 2383, Rebellion or Insurrection.
[00:05:42]  Yeah, let me do an overhead shot.
[00:05:43]  This is right out of Cornell law here.
[00:05:46]  Excellent.
[00:05:46]  All right, I'm going to start reading this.
[00:05:47]  This is according to the U.S. Code.
[00:05:49]  Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 10 years or both, and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
[00:06:07]  It technically doesn't define insurrection.
[00:06:09]  It's the code talking about what I guess what an insurrection is.
[00:06:13]  Of course, they use the word insurrection in the actual code itself.
[00:06:16]  But what do you think?
[00:06:17]  Do you guys think it was an insurrection?
[00:06:19]  So I personally believe it was an insurrection.
[00:06:23]  And I base that on the fact that 20 court decisions called it an insurrection.
[00:06:27]  And the fact that there was a bill passed in the Senate that called them a mob of insurrectionists.
[00:06:33]  I think the bill passed, or it was in the House of Representatives, 406 to 21.
[00:06:38]  That was a statute to award the police officers medals.
[00:06:42]  And it referred to these individuals as insurrectionists.
[00:06:45]  So, I mean, I think the term can be subjective.
[00:06:50]  I think, you know, people can say nobody was charged with violating section 2383 of Title 18, which is insurrection and insurrection and rebellion statute.
[00:07:03]  And nobody was, right?
[00:07:05]  But I don't think that defines whether the event was an insurrection.
[00:07:10]  When I say insurrection, I don't mean everybody there was partaking in insurrection.
[00:07:16]  There were people who were peaceful, people who, the people who walked into the Capitol and did nothing, I don't think that they were insurrectionists.
[00:07:24]  I think they violated the law, but I don't think they were partaking in insurrection.
[00:07:28]  I do think the Proud Boys were partaking in insurrection.
[00:07:32]  I think you could say Donald Trump incited the insurrection.
[00:07:35]  I do.
[00:07:37]  Destiny, what do you think, man?
[00:07:39]  I would say the plot from start to finish is quite obviously an insurrection.
[00:07:43]  The only way to get around that is to either justify an insurrection, which is what most conservatives do.
[00:07:48]  They don't realize it, or to deny that an insurrection could ever happen.
[00:07:52]  Or, if you're not aware of all the facts of what happened, I think that Donald Trump and his cronies had a very coherent plan that they tried to enact from start to finish, starting with false claims of voter fraud, leading to false slates of electors that filed themselves as state electors under perjury, which is what they did, up to the violence that happened on the day of the day of the certification of the vote, where Donald Trump and his friends continued to try to delay the peaceful transfer of power by contravening the certification of the Electoral College vote.

=== Gas Hit, Trember Finished (03:47) ===

[00:08:21]  And I want to make sure that we don't force this into like what they want to call a debate debate where you got to be waiting to called on or be called on or anything.
[00:08:28]  So if any of you guys, Glenn, you as well, man, if any of you guys want to jump in.
[00:08:31]  Yeah, two of them just went.
[00:08:33]  I want Glenn to go, but I just want to say something here.
[00:08:36]  I was there and I was investigated and subpoenaed by the Justice Department in at least five criminal investigations and I was forced to testify in front of the Jan 6 committee, which they've now been destroying their records because the records show the opposite of what they said.
[00:08:51]  Trump and all of us had a stage rented by the Supreme Court.
[00:08:55]  He was supposed to have another rally there.
[00:08:57]  We showed up.
[00:08:58]  Before Trember finished his speech, people were getting tear gas and hit by bullets.
[00:09:02]  And there were a bunch of provocateurs leading an attack against the police and they broke through.
[00:09:06]  And then this million plus people then got blamed as insurrectionists.
[00:09:10]  And Biden gave a big speech yesterday saying they're all terrorists.
[00:09:13]  So by that extension, Kamala Harris as the VP candidate was bailing people out of jail that burned down police stations and firebombed federal buildings.
[00:09:22]  So and the idea of Biden's speech yesterday, making his whole campaign about January 6th, saying political violence is never good.
[00:09:30]  The Democrats are the ones that call for political violence.
[00:09:32]  So I was there with a bullhorn, but I can only reach 100 yards out when the tear gas was hitting me saying, don't go in, don't fight the police.
[00:09:39]  This is a setup.
[00:09:39]  And we have hundreds of videos.
[00:09:41]  And so, regardless of what the left tries to do, they're all out there of people taking off their antifa stuff and putting on the Trump garb and the police fake arresting people attacking them and then high-fiving them.
[00:09:56]  I mean, this has all come out in the new footage, and it's all getting fake arresting them.
[00:10:00]  How were they faking them?
[00:10:01]  They would grab them and arrest them and then drag them in and then high-five them, you know, take the handcuffs off and high-fi them.
[00:10:05]  Those videos, people are going to take everything I say, they're going to put it on X and show what I said.
[00:10:10]  That's where we dominate.
[00:10:12]  And so, what I'm getting at here, let me just tell you this.
[00:10:14]  What I'm getting at here is they now admit hundreds of federal officers were there.
[00:10:19]  So, when Trump started his speech, this whole thing began with Ray Epps saying go into the Capitol.
[00:10:24]  He told the Jan 6 committee, yeah, it's true, it's in his text messages.
[00:10:27]  He told family, I orchestrated it.
[00:10:29]  So, under pressure, they finally indicted him, but only recommends six months.
[00:10:33]  So, a few hundred people got manipulated into fighting the police.
[00:10:36]  They were led and driven by provocateurs and other groups.
[00:10:40]  They were others, then they opened the doors and the police wave them in in hundreds of videos.
[00:10:44]  They walk through the velvet ropes, and then they indict over a thousand people that just walked through velvet ropes.
[00:10:50]  And then, now we're told in the National Security Directive of President Biden, the number one threat is the American people.
[00:10:56]  And he had a declaration of war yesterday against all Trump supporters that says to protect democracy, we're not going to let you vote for Trump.
[00:11:03]  So, as Stalin said, I care not who casts the votes, I care who counts them.
[00:11:07]  Well, Biden doesn't care who casts the votes, he cares who's allowed on the ballot.
[00:11:11]  So, we've already won.
[00:11:13]  No one's buying this.
[00:11:15]  And when this happened three years ago, the Wall Street Journal had a print of retraction, but they said I was there as a coward telling people to attack.
[00:11:22]  Well, no, they wouldn't let me put the video on Twitter before I was saying don't go in.
[00:11:27]  But the truth is, it's coming out.
[00:11:29]  And so, so that's the bottom line here.
[00:11:32]  And this attempt by Biden to cast the American people as the enemy and all these movies about martial law and civil war and race war, that's their only hope because the corrupt, evil Democratic Party and its evil twin, the Republicans, they've lost power and populism is rising.

=== Civil War Misconceptions (10:26) ===

[00:11:52]  Quite frankly, this was not an insurrection.
[00:11:53]  It was an insurrection, there would have been guns.
[00:11:55]  And it's in the Declaration of Independence that it's our right and duty to get rid of a government that's destructive of what the people want.
[00:12:02]  But I'm not calling for violence.
[00:12:03]  We're winning this politically, but we're being cast as about to be violent the next 10 months because all these indictments and all these attacks to not let Americans vote for who they want aren't working and are backfiring.
[00:12:15]  And all the big Democrat lawyers now admit it.
[00:12:17]  Axel Rod admits it.
[00:12:19]  Carville admits it.
[00:12:20]  They all admit this attempt, like we're in Venezuela or something, to take Trump off the ballot when he's never been convicted of insurrection.
[00:12:28]  This is a military tribunal, U.S. code, from the Civil War.
[00:12:32]  If a military tribunal found you were guilty of being involved in insurrection, that meant after the war ended, can I ask you a question?
[00:12:40]  Can I ask you a question?
[00:12:41]  Yeah.
[00:12:42]  So do you think the Confederates during the Civil War were partaking in insurrection?
[00:12:51]  I mean, in retrospect, because I wasn't alive then, I think the South got manipulated into that.
[00:12:55]  I thought there was real issues between the North and South.
[00:12:57]  The abolitionists had a good point and slavery needed to end.
[00:13:02]  But it was really about the North out of the world.
[00:13:04]  So just to be clear, the person that's defending the J6 writers won't say that the Confederate states were engaged in insurrection.
[00:13:10]  Well, that's not what I see.
[00:13:12]  See, here's what happened.
[00:13:12]  Yes or no, hold on.
[00:13:15]  Hold on.
[00:13:15]  That's not true.
[00:13:17]  That's what it sounded like.
[00:13:17]  You said it were break the record.
[00:13:18]  How do you think they were engaged in insurrection?
[00:13:20]  I was attempting to talk.
[00:13:22]  And the thing I said was, I think the South was wrong.
[00:13:24]  And then you just said, you just said that I support what the South did.
[00:13:30]  No, I didn't say you supported that.
[00:13:31]  I said that you said that they weren't engaged in insurrection.
[00:13:33]  Do you think the Confederate states were engaged in insurrection?
[00:13:36]  Was that because there were rebellions during Reconstruction at the end of the Civil War?
[00:13:41]  And they were saying if you lead an uprising against the Northern occupation of the South, you're precluded from running from office because they were worried about Southerners getting office again, like Jefferson.
[00:13:52]  No, so no, I do not support the Civil War or slavery, and I'm not a quote Confederate.
[00:13:57]  And we're not in fighting.
[00:13:59]  My question is, was it an insurrection?
[00:14:00]  Yes or no?
[00:14:03]  No, no, no, no.
[00:14:03]  No, no.
[00:14:04]  The law, yes, I think that it was a civil war, and you could say an insurrection.
[00:14:09]  Okay, so is it insurrection?
[00:14:10]  Did anybody get charged with insurrection rebellion?
[00:14:13]  What I'm saying is Did anybody get charged?
[00:14:16]  No, I'm asking you.
[00:14:16]  You just said it was an insurrection.
[00:14:18]  Did anybody get charged with violating the insurrection and rebellion statute?
[00:14:22]  Yes, people did.
[00:14:23]  You have to say that.
[00:14:23]  No, because there was no statute there.
[00:14:25]  That's my point.
[00:14:26]  No, you don't need to violate that statute in order to be partaking in insurrection because the Civil War was an insurrection.
[00:14:34]  Okay, well, you know, nobody got charged.
[00:14:36]  You're not listening.
[00:14:37]  No, that's what I'm saying.
[00:14:39]  That's my point, Alex.
[00:14:39]  You're changing the subject because you know I'm correct.
[00:14:42]  Even the Democratic Party lawyers on CNN say you have to be convicted under the 14th Amendment of this before you can be.
[00:14:50]  You can't just because— You don't get convicted under the 14th Amendment.
[00:14:53]  You get convicted under Section 2383 of Title 18.
[00:14:57]  Well, let's slow down a little.
[00:14:58]  Let's slow down a little.
[00:14:59]  A congressional resolution to give awards to Capitol Police is not a conviction of Donald Trump to remove him from the ballot.
[00:15:08]  He's been indicted for saying they stole an election.
[00:15:11]  So now they want to take him off the ballot so you can't vote for him, which is pure stealing of an election.
[00:15:16]  I think this is not—he's the Yankee Yankee.
[00:15:19]  He's not somebody in Georgia.
[00:15:22]  He's not Robert E. Lee.
[00:15:23]  This has nothing to do with it.
[00:15:25]  I know, but— Also, as a quick track check, on the 14th Amendment, it doesn't require a conviction under Section 3.
[00:15:29]  You can literally put it on the text on the screen.
[00:15:31]  There's no—it does not say it needs to be convicted.
[00:15:33]  I guess we need to define the difference.
[00:15:35]  Alex, Alex, Alex.
[00:15:36]  One second, one second.
[00:15:37]  We need to define the difference between the casual term insurrection and the legal definition of insurrection.
[00:15:42]  Yes.
[00:15:43]  Well, there's another thing we need to talk about.
[00:15:45]  So, yes, there's the casual term.
[00:15:47]  There's the etymology of the term insurrection, which simply suggests a rising up.
[00:15:53]  So, by that definition, that could encompass a wide range of things.
[00:15:57]  Black Lives Matter.
[00:15:58]  Wait, wait, wait, wait.
[00:15:59]  So, there's a rising up.
[00:16:01]  Then there's the legal definition, but we have politically weaponized court systems.
[00:16:07]  So, that's not even, I think, a proper standard.
[00:16:10]  I think the proper standard is the sweep of a proper historical perspective.
[00:16:16]  Does the event of January 6th compare to the antecedent that we've been discussing, the Civil War?
[00:16:25]  So, if the question is, oh, is civil war an insurrection?
[00:16:28]  My question is, is the scope and scale of the event of January 6th comparable to the Civil War?
[00:16:35]  Because Joe Biden has directly made this comparison, which I think is flatly ridiculous.
[00:16:40]  And that comparison has to be valid in order for these ridiculous Section 3 arguments to have any force or legitimacy.
[00:16:49]  And I think any common sense.
[00:16:50]  It's a lie on its face.
[00:16:51]  It's a lie.
[00:16:52]  I'm going to shut up.
[00:16:53]  It's a lie on its face.
[00:16:54]  They say it's bigger than Pearl Harbor and 9-11.
[00:16:57]  That is bullshit.
[00:16:58]  Okay, so here, let me finish what my point is.
[00:17:01]  Yeah, do that, and then I want to go to Glenn for a second after you do that.
[00:17:04]  So, my point is that two things.
[00:17:05]  The Civil War was an insurrection.
[00:17:07]  I think it's hard to argue that.
[00:17:09]  Nobody got charged with a crime of violating the insurrection rebellion statute, 2383.
[00:17:15]  What about 1992, the L.A. riots?
[00:17:19]  George Herbert Walker Bush, he invoked the Insurrection Act.
[00:17:24]  12,000 people were arrested.
[00:17:27]  63 people were killed.
[00:17:28]  Hundreds were injured.
[00:17:30]  Was that an insurrection?
[00:17:31]  What do you guys think?
[00:17:32]  No, it's a declaration of federal martial law.
[00:17:35]  But was it an insurrection?
[00:17:37]  Because nobody there was charged with violating Section 2383, the insurrection and rebellion statute.
[00:17:45]  But we still consider that an insurrection, right?
[00:17:47]  I mean, by that yardstick, Kamala Harris bailing out people that firebomb federal buildings.
[00:17:51]  That is not true.
[00:17:52]  Glenn, talk to me.
[00:17:53]  You have something to say.
[00:17:54]  Yeah, I actually think what Destiny and what Ed are saying are very important.
[00:17:59]  First of all, I was gonna say that I think one of the problems with how these things are debated is that a lot of people these days have very binary prisms for understanding things.
[00:18:07]  God, that comes from YouTube debate where you have to declare yourself on one side or the other.
[00:18:10]  So Destiny said, oh, everybody either hates this insurrection, thinks it's an insurrection, or they deny it happens, or they think it's good.
[00:18:20]  And there's so much middle ground, namely that for me, this was a political protest that spilled over into a riot where a small minority of the people engage in violence.
[00:18:30]  I don't think we wanna urge that to happen.
[00:18:32]  We don't wanna defend that.
[00:18:33]  I consider that lamentable.
[00:18:35]  But the fact that it's laughable to call this an insurrection is actually demonstrated by the examples that they're using.
[00:18:41]  This was a three-hour riot that was extremely easily subdued.
[00:18:46]  It doesn't remotely compare to any prior insurrections, let alone to the Civil War.
[00:18:52]  The only people who were killed on January 6th were four people, all four of whom were Trump supporters, two of whom dropped dead of a heart attack and one from a speed overdose because these were not exactly a well-trained militia.
[00:19:06]  And when Jack Smith went to charge Donald Trump with multiple crimes, he had a lot of options to charge him with, and he charged him with a lot of crimes, including very dubious ones.
[00:19:16]  He did not charge him with inciting an insurrection for reasons that I think we ought to ask ourselves why.
[00:19:22]  But the fact that this is such a minor event in history is demonstrated by the fact that the media who needed this to be a major event immediately started lying about what happened, saying that Brian Sicknick was murdered when he had his head bashed in through a fire with a fire extinguisher, only to learn that actually he called his mother that night.
[00:19:41]  He was fine.
[00:19:42]  He died the next day of what the coroner said were natural causes, because the media knew that if you can't say that even one person supposedly perpetrating the insurrection killed anybody, pulled out a gun, let alone discharge the weapon, all of which is true.
[00:19:57]  It's a joke to call this an insurrection.
[00:19:59]  At best, it's a riot.
[00:20:01]  And that's the reason why Trump hasn't been charged with an insurrection.
[00:20:04]  The only time he ever commented on January 6th about whether he thought there should be violence or not was when he said the following.
[00:20:12]  He said, I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.
[00:20:20]  He urged them to be peaceful in how they went there.
[00:20:23]  To the extent there was violence, I think you can make the argument that the FBI informants that even the New York Times admits were there were the ones that urged it.
[00:20:30]  But even if the people who were there were the ones responsible, at best this is a riot.
[00:20:35]  You could so easily make the case that the 2020 riots were as a far greater insurrectionary threat than anything that happened on January 6th.
[00:20:42]  That's perfectly said.
[00:20:44]  I would ask the left over here.
[00:20:45]  I know Ian's asking questions.
[00:20:47]  I mean, I don't know.
[00:20:48]  Did you guys see Biden's speech?
[00:20:50]  I mean, it's an hour long that no one there was good.
[00:20:53]  They were all there, millions, over a million people.
[00:20:55]  I was there.
[00:20:57]  And then we marched down there to have another rally.
[00:20:59]  And then I see this hell, this terrible thing happening.
[00:21:02]  It was medieval.
[00:21:03]  And then Biden's saying they're all bad, and we can't let you vote for Trump.
[00:21:08]  I mean, it's, I mean, come on, man.
[00:21:10]  We have a clip from this, from Biden's speech I want to play.
[00:21:13]  And then let's get back to you, Destiny.
[00:21:14]  You had something to say.
[00:21:15]  But if you guys have this, it's clip number four, Biden's speech.
[00:21:19]  This is from yesterday's.
[00:21:20]  It's only 50 seconds, but let's load this up.
[00:21:23]  Not sure what's going on.
[00:21:25]  A peaceful protest?
[00:21:27]  It was a violent assault.
[00:21:29]  They were insurrectionists, not patriots.
[00:21:33]  They weren't there to uphold the Constitution.
[00:21:35]  They were there to destroy the Constitution.
[00:21:40]  Trump won't do what an American president must do.
[00:21:43]  He refuses to denounce political violence.
[00:21:48]  So hear me clearly.
[00:21:50]  I'll say what Donald Trump won't.
[00:21:51]  Political violence is never, ever acceptable in the United States political system.
[00:21:56]  Never, never, never.
[00:21:59]  It has no place in a democracy.

=== Rico Case Allegations (15:45) ===

[00:22:01]  None.
[00:22:04]  You can't be pro-insurrectionist and pro-American.
[00:22:09]  Trump and his MAGA supporters not only embrace political violence, but they laugh about it.
[00:22:14]  The insurrection is the open border.
[00:22:16]  So the insurrection was not just the three-hour riot that happened at the White House afterwards.
[00:22:20]  I think that's the least charitable reading for everything that happened.
[00:22:22]  And that's not, if you read any of the charges that either Jack Smith or the Georgia Rico case has alleged against Trump are saying.
[00:22:29]  In fact, not much of the focus is on the three-hour riot at all.
[00:22:32]  Not much of that.
[00:22:34]  Hold on, Alex, let's even finish his thought first.
[00:22:37]  So not much of those indictments are actually focusing on the three-hour riot itself.
[00:22:40]  The unprecedented act that there is no answer for, that Kamala Harris or Joe Biden or Hillary Clinton have not engaged in is using knowingly false election claims for months to try to pressure state electors to change their vote.
[00:22:54]  And then when they wouldn't do that, beg them to elect different electors.
[00:22:58]  And then when they wouldn't do that, create a plot to create fake electors.
[00:23:02]  And then when Pence wouldn't accept that, try to capitalize on that final three-hour riot at the Capitol building to also make phone calls and tell people to decertify their vote or to switch their elections.
[00:23:12]  JFK and Obama.
[00:23:13]  That is.
[00:23:14]  And all different electors.
[00:23:15]  JFK.
[00:23:16]  JFK.
[00:23:17]  No, they didn't.
[00:23:18]  I can explain that if you want.
[00:23:19]  Yeah, please do.
[00:23:20]  Right.
[00:23:21]  Yeah.
[00:23:21]  So in 19, what was it?
[00:23:23]  1960.
[00:23:25]  So in 1960, JFK and Nixon, there was a dispute because there was a recount.
[00:23:32]  I think JFK ended up winning by like 150 votes.
[00:23:35]  At the time, each state decided, or the state decided to certify two sets of electors.
[00:23:41]  They didn't certify them.
[00:23:42]  Decided to choose two different slates of electors.
[00:23:46]  Depending on how it went.
[00:23:48]  But they were certified in the middle.
[00:23:50]  They were in the middle of a recount.
[00:23:51]  Well, Trump tried to get a certificate.
[00:23:52]  None was certified yet.
[00:23:54]  Neither slate was certainly.
[00:23:55]  What happened with Trump was that Trump tried to get the states to certify a second slate of electors based off of conspiracy theory crap that the election was stolen.
[00:24:09]  Hold on.
[00:24:11]  They did.
[00:24:11]  He took it to court.
[00:24:12]  62 cases.
[00:24:14]  30 cases were looked at on merit.
[00:24:16]  So are they taking away?
[00:24:19]  That's a separate.
[00:24:20]  That's a separate.
[00:24:20]  Take him off the ballot to certify.
[00:24:23]  Our purest form of election theft is taking someone off the ballot.
[00:24:27]  Let's get back to the 1960s.
[00:24:30]  So what happened was that they did a recount, and Kennedy ended up winning by, I think, 150 votes, and they chose the Kennedy electors.
[00:24:39]  They certify the Kennedy electors, and Kennedy ended up winning that slate.
[00:24:43]  That's what Trump said.
[00:24:45]  What Trump did was Trump tried to get the states to certify an alternate slate of electors.
[00:24:50]  They refused because the court said there's no, they're there.
[00:24:56]  And then when that didn't go through, Trump decided to get his own slate of electors above the states that were not certified and tried to use that to force Mike Pence to say that Joe Biden didn't win these electoral votes.
[00:25:10]  I just need to interject really quickly.
[00:25:12]  So if we want to be precise in terms of the scope of the debate, I think it's about January 6th.
[00:25:18]  And so the lead up to it might be relevant to some of the criminal indictments, but it's technically speaking outside the scope of the January 6th discussion.
[00:25:27]  But it's worth it.
[00:25:28]  If we're going to bring it into the discussion, I think there's an operative word there, knowingly.
[00:25:35]  And that's operative within the context of the charging documents.
[00:25:39]  But the idea that Trump thought that he lost the election and he was knowingly lying and knowingly engaging.
[00:25:49]  No, he believes, I guarantee it, whether you believe it or not, Trump believes that the election was stolen and he was using the legal recourse available to him at the advice of his legal advisors.
[00:26:05]  That is not true.
[00:26:06]  Most of his legal advisors, most of his legal advisors, most of his legal advisors said that this idea was raised.
[00:26:14]  Well, no, but he had legal advisors who were telling him that you tried to search hard enough, you can't find anybody to validate an opinion.
[00:26:22]  But what you've just done is what I opened with, which is saying he thought the election was stolen, therefore he was justified to engage in insurrection.
[00:26:29]  Is it right to take him off the ballot?
[00:26:30]  Since you don't want to debate January 6th, is it right to ask you a question?
[00:26:33]  That's for the Supreme Court to decide.
[00:26:35]  I'm asking the question.
[00:26:36]  I'm telling you.
[00:26:36]  That's for the Supreme Court to decide.
[00:26:39]  According to Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, it's not going to be a problem.
[00:26:45]  That's not even remotely relevant here.
[00:26:47]  Oh, okay.
[00:26:48]  All right.
[00:26:49]  So you can.
[00:26:49]  You know what?
[00:26:50]  The United States would use it.
[00:26:53]  If we do want an insurrection, you'd know it.
[00:26:55]  That would be for things like circumventing the vote, like asking the vice president, for instance, to unilaterally win the election.
[00:27:00]  That would be something that we might sanction another country.
[00:27:03]  Because they make up a bunch of stuff and he's not found guilty anywhere, but you guys just parrot it over.
[00:27:08]  You're like, if you don't like the Constitution, that's your fault, Alex.
[00:27:12]  If you don't like the Constitution, that's unusual.
[00:27:14]  Really?
[00:27:14]  Then why are you saying that Section 3 of Amendment 14 requires a conviction?
[00:27:18]  Alex, why did you say that Section 3 of Amendment 14 requires a conviction?
[00:27:21]  Can we put the text on stream?
[00:27:22]  I would love to do that, actually.
[00:27:25]  Because you keep saying tribunals.
[00:27:27]  I don't care what you're doing.
[00:27:31]  That's why no one was.
[00:27:35]  We'll slow down.
[00:27:36]  This is a great conversation.
[00:27:37]  Glenn's about to drop some knowledge.
[00:27:39]  I'm dominating.
[00:27:40]  Yeah.
[00:27:42]  Glenn's in remote from Brazil.
[00:27:44]  So Glenn, anytime you have something to say, it's helpful for me if I see a visual cue.
[00:27:47]  Maybe your hand goes up.
[00:27:48]  I can tell you have something you're going to say now.
[00:27:49]  But let us know.
[00:27:51]  Let me just say, what happens is when you gather together to debate a particular question, you're supposed to debate that particular question.
[00:27:59]  The particular question that we were presented with is we're going to debate January 6th and whether it was an insurrection.
[00:28:05]  Now, I don't blame Destiny and Ed for not wanting to debate that, for wanting to debate a whole set of other issues about whether Trump acted improperly, whether he was naughty in the things he did after the election, because there is no argument to make that what happened on January 6th rises to the level of insurrection.
[00:28:23]  And that's why an extremely aggressive prosecutor named Jack Smith decided not to charge Donald Trump with that crime because he knew there was no way that he could possibly bring a conviction against anybody, let alone Donald Trump, who told everybody to be peaceful when going to the Capitol about whether or not that was actually an insurrection, whether that rose to that level.
[00:28:42]  And even in a colloquial sense, what we've called an insurrection in the past is in a completely different universe.
[00:28:48]  But on the issue of whether there was a real belief on the part of Donald Trump that elections were stolen, I don't understand how anybody could doubt that aside from the fact that you have to get into Trump's head.
[00:28:58]  In the last three elections that Democrats lost in 2000, 2004, and 2016, a very large number of Democrats believed and asserted that the election was stolen, that the election was stolen and was the byproduct of fraud, and the president was, as a result, illegitimate.
[00:29:13]  When I started writing about politics 2005, the idea that George Bush was the real loser of the election, Al Gore won, was the view of every single liberal and Democrat that I knew.
[00:29:22]  In 2004, there were objections claiming that Karl Rove had interfered in the Ohio vote with the D-Bold machines and cheated to make John Kerry lose and George Bush win.
[00:29:33]  And then in 2016, Hillary Clinton and the Democrats said that Donald Trump was the illegitimate winner, that Russia had helped him.
[00:29:40]  And they tried to convince the Electoral College to abandon the certified results of the state.
[00:29:45]  Obviously, you go back to 1960, and a lot of historians believe that election was stolen.
[00:29:51]  So it's not like Donald Trump was the first person to ever wonder or believe that an election was stolen from him.
[00:29:56]  It's a very significant tradition in American political history.
[00:29:59]  If you know anything about politics before 2016, and if Trump believed that the election was stolen, and while it's true, a lot of people in the Justice Department and a lot of people in the White House told them they didn't think it was.
[00:30:09]  He did have advisors and lawyers telling them, telling him that they think there was evidence of it.
[00:30:15]  Then the question is over, even on these other issues about whether or not Trump engaged in some conspiracy against the United States.
[00:30:22]  But the issue is: is January 6th an insurrection?
[00:30:25]  Well, that's right.
[00:30:25]  But I mean, Glenn, since the election, and these guys haven't talked to either Professor B. We Hillary was in videos two days ago saying Trump's going to steal this election.
[00:30:36]  So why are they allowed to say it?
[00:30:38]  It's free speech.
[00:30:39]  You don't get indicted for it.
[00:30:40]  Trump didn't get indicted for that.
[00:30:42]  Oh, my God.
[00:30:42]  They indicted him and they put it in the charging thing in Georgia saying he says the election.
[00:30:48]  You're hoping people don't read the document.
[00:30:49]  You can go read it.
[00:30:50]  It's a RICO case.
[00:30:51]  There's a bunch of behavior that is within a RICO case.
[00:30:53]  Oh, my God.
[00:30:54]  It's self-illegal.
[00:30:54]  That's the point of the RICO case.
[00:30:56]  Can I talk about the differences?
[00:30:58]  So, Bush versus Gore, what happens?
[00:31:01]  The Supreme Court ruled, and Gore conceded.
[00:31:04]  He stopped saying this election was stolen.
[00:31:06]  He stopped saying I won.
[00:31:07]  Supreme Court.
[00:31:08]  Yes.
[00:31:09]  Did Gore refuse to certify the vote?
[00:31:10]  I don't remember.
[00:31:11]  Did he do that?
[00:31:11]  The vote was certified.
[00:31:13]  Oh, he didn't have an alternate state of electorate?
[00:31:14]  Exactly.
[00:31:15]  After the Trump wanted a Supreme Court hearing, Trump wanted the same thing.
[00:31:20]  62 cases were brought before judges.
[00:31:23]  And you said earlier, none of them are based on evidence.
[00:31:26]  Six of them were based on standing.
[00:31:29]  Six out of the 60.
[00:31:30]  They wouldn't even hear it.
[00:31:31]  I saw that.
[00:31:31]  Do you know how many of them were Trump-appointed judges that made those rulings?
[00:31:35]  17.
[00:31:36]  So six of them.
[00:31:39]  Let me finish here.
[00:31:40]  Six of them were based on standing.
[00:31:43]  Four of those that were based on standing, the judge also analyzed the merits and said there was no evidence or insufficient evidence.
[00:31:50]  So only two of them, and that was Texas versus Pennsylvania and Gohmert versus Pence.
[00:31:56]  Do you know what those two cases were?
[00:31:58]  No, Texas treated the case.
[00:31:59]  I know what the cases are.
[00:32:00]  Texas tried to sue them.
[00:32:00]  No, I agree with that.
[00:32:01]  Biden says inflation's fine right now.
[00:32:03]  I agree.
[00:32:04]  Let me finish.
[00:32:04]  Texas tried suing Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, several other states saying that the election was stolen.
[00:32:11]  And the judge said, no, Texas can't sue these other states.
[00:32:15]  Somebody in that state who was affected had to sue them.
[00:32:19]  Now, the other case was Gohmert versus Pence.
[00:32:22]  He challenged the Electoral Counts Act of 1807, saying that Pence could overturn the election.
[00:32:29]  He said that Pence vote out.
[00:32:31]  I agree with you.
[00:32:32]  I think that was a wrong vote.
[00:32:33]  Those are the only two that were.
[00:32:34]  No, no, I agree with you on that.
[00:32:36]  But what I'm saying is, then if Biden's going to win so big, why can't Trump be on the ballot?
[00:32:41]  That's not up for Biden to decide.
[00:32:42]  That's up for this.
[00:32:43]  Oh, no, Biden said he wants him off the bat.
[00:32:45]  It doesn't matter what Biden says.
[00:32:46]  Oh, Biden's going to decide that.
[00:32:48]  Trump lost.
[00:32:49]  That's why he can't have his race car on the track.
[00:32:52]  Yeah, this horse is going to lose, so it can't be in the race.
[00:32:56]  Bull crap.
[00:32:57]  Who do you think has the authority then to determine the interpretation of Amendment 14?
[00:33:01]  Man, I know the State Department.
[00:33:02]  Why can't you answer a single question?
[00:33:03]  Why not just answer one question?
[00:33:05]  I'm just asking a simple question.
[00:33:06]  Who has the authority ultimately?
[00:33:07]  Why decided has not been on CNN?
[00:33:12]  Because you want it for the court.
[00:33:13]  President has not been.
[00:33:14]  He's going to ramble.
[00:33:15]  He's not going to be able to do it.
[00:33:16]  Even on CNN, the legal analysts say that you have to be convicted.
[00:33:20]  So, destiny, you can sit there and have blue hair and be translated and make all these like the moon is made of cheese.
[00:33:27]  I'm destiny.
[00:33:27]  That's the worst thing.
[00:33:29]  Every American knows you don't lose your rights when you're not convicted.
[00:33:34]  He's not been convicted.
[00:33:36]  And here's the good news: it's backfiring people.
[00:33:39]  We have the Declaration of Independence, and we can vote for who we want to.
[00:33:43]  No, you can't.
[00:33:44]  You have 35%.
[00:33:45]  You can't vote, persons.
[00:33:47]  But can you?
[00:33:48]  Nobody stole an election.
[00:33:49]  But you can't vote for who you want.
[00:33:51]  Nobody stole the election.
[00:33:53]  You can't vote for who you want.
[00:33:55]  I think we just...
[00:33:55]  Nobody stole the election.
[00:33:57]  You can't vote for who you want.
[00:33:58]  We just beat this into the ground.
[00:34:00]  Alex, I need you.
[00:34:01]  We just crushed this one into the ground, but I want to ask the question in a slightly different way.
[00:34:04]  Was this an attempted coup?
[00:34:06]  Do you guys think this was an attempted coup?
[00:34:07]  Of course it was.
[00:34:08]  Obviously, it was.
[00:34:09]  Hunter Biden laptop.
[00:34:10]  Oh, my God.
[00:34:11]  Weaponization censorship.
[00:34:14]  Russia gets no Russian connection.
[00:34:16]  That's all.
[00:34:17]  MRNA vaccines.
[00:34:19]  Take your extra.
[00:34:20]  I want you to take all the shots.
[00:34:21]  How many shots have you had?
[00:34:22]  None yet.
[00:34:23]  Do you want to take some?
[00:34:24]  No, I hope you try to get it.
[00:34:25]  I just want you to answer one question about anything.
[00:34:27]  I want to see you take them all.
[00:34:28]  I've been talking about the Democrats more than the Republican desk on the January 6th debate.
[00:34:33]  Isn't that wild?
[00:34:34]  Isn't that crazy?
[00:34:34]  Does he now admit that the shot erases your immune system and doesn't protect you?
[00:34:39]  So you do that little one-liner.
[00:34:44]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:34:44]  Let's stay back.
[00:34:46]  All right, guys.
[00:34:47]  Back to topic.
[00:34:48]  Brian has a question.
[00:34:51]  Is it a coup?
[00:34:52]  That's the question.
[00:34:53]  Yeah, that's so.
[00:34:54]  I think it can be debated.
[00:34:56]  Or an attempted coup.
[00:34:59]  Definitely, I would say it's an attempted coup.
[00:35:01]  And a federal coup is flooding the border now.
[00:35:05]  District Judge, U.S. District Judge David Carter, actually evaluated the Trump-Eastman scheme.
[00:35:12]  And he said, We got some big news.
[00:35:14]  I'm not interrupting you.
[00:35:15]  No, no, no, no, no, no.
[00:35:16]  Not that yet.
[00:35:17]  But we had Glenn.
[00:35:18]  Glenn's going to speak after you were.
[00:35:20]  I'm sorry.
[00:35:20]  I'll shut up now.
[00:35:21]  So the federal judge, U.S. District Judge David Carter, evaluated the Trump-Eastman scheme.
[00:35:27]  We can go into later.
[00:35:29]  But basically, he said that it was, quote, a coup in search of a legal theory.
[00:35:34]  This is a federal judge.
[00:35:36]  So a judge.
[00:35:38]  We have a CIA coup over America.
[00:35:39]  Hey, the CIA, Phil Kennedy?
[00:35:42]  Judges aren't part of the CIA.
[00:35:43]  Oh, my God.
[00:35:44]  I don't think so.
[00:35:46]  Is that a new theory of yours?
[00:35:47]  No, it's not a new theory of mine.
[00:35:48]  No, the whole thing is a big rotten.
[00:35:50]  So they can find partisan.
[00:35:52]  They found the Secretary of State of Maine took Trump off the ballot because she had one hearing in a YouTube video.
[00:35:58]  Are we ruled by this lady?
[00:36:00]  Can we not vote for who we want?
[00:36:02]  So, so one, one of the, I guess, defenses against it being a coup.
[00:36:06]  Oh, wait, here.
[00:36:07]  We've got Glenn.
[00:36:08]  Glenn's speaking.
[00:36:09]  Go for it, man.
[00:36:10]  So just about the, just, I actually want to ask a question that I would love to hear everybody's answer to.
[00:36:15]  But before I do that, I just want to say about federal judges.
[00:36:17]  This year, in the last six months, four different federal judges, a district court judge and then an appellate court unanimously, found that the Biden administration gravely violated the First Amendment.
[00:36:28]  In fact, the greatest assault on free speech the courts had in decades, maybe the history of the judiciary, by systemically pressuring big tech to censor the internet and purge it of all dissent by threatening big tech companies, using the CIA, the FBI, and the CDC with punishment if they didn't censor the internet.
[00:36:43]  Now, you may not agree, but according to your standard, four different federal judges concluded that, which is infinitely worse in terms of an abridgment of freedom or an attack on the Constitution than anything that Trump is accused of doing.
[00:36:54]  But in terms of whether that's a problem, that's a digital insurrection.
[00:36:57]  Hold on the dam state.
[00:36:58]  Digital insurrection.
[00:36:59]  Can I put a picture real quick?
[00:37:01]  I just want it to be noted.
[00:37:02]  Hold up.
[00:37:02]  Everybody, hold up.
[00:37:04]  Glenn, please finish your point, and then we're going to move on to the response.
[00:37:07]  The question I want to ask is the question that you asked, Ian, is this a coup?
[00:37:11]  If you look at how other coups are perpetrated, and I think a lot of this is that if you're an American and you have this very soft history, you don't know what a coup is, you think that like what CNN tells you a coup is a coup.
[00:37:22]  Usually the way coups work is the leader of the country or whoever is in charge of the military orders the military to seize control of the levers of power.

=== Why Didn't Trump Order The Military? (08:49) ===

[00:37:30]  Trump was the commander-in-chief on January 6th.
[00:37:32]  The military was duty bound to obey his orders.
[00:37:35]  They had a right to disobey if they were illegal.
[00:37:38]  But if this were a coup, why didn't Trump order the military to seize control of power and turn over the election process to him?
[00:37:46]  Why didn't he order the armed factions that formed the law enforcement part of the military and the executive branch that serve under his command to do that as well?
[00:37:54]  That's what happens in a coup.
[00:37:55]  That didn't happen here because Trump wasn't trying to perpetrate a coup.
[00:37:59]  He wanted the Department of Defense to seize voting machines, and the DOJ turned him down and told him.
[00:38:05]  The worst thing he did was try to take Biden off the ballot.
[00:38:08]  Remember when Trump said Biden cannot run and have the Justice Department take Biden off the ballot?
[00:38:13]  Oh, God, that was Biden.
[00:38:14]  Sorry.
[00:38:16]  I'm sorry.
[00:38:17]  I was out of it.
[00:38:18]  Terminated out.
[00:38:19]  Biden doesn't have the authority to do that.
[00:38:21]  He still doesn't have to do that.
[00:38:22]  Only is Lord Saber Jack Smith.
[00:38:23]  The Supreme Court that Trump has his picks on, that's currently 6'3 considered.
[00:38:26]  They're the ones who are going to make the final decision on that.
[00:38:29]  I wanted to be known that every single time you try to talk about any of the stuff related to Trump, it's so many Democrat names that come out of people's mouths.
[00:38:35]  I don't know why people can't just engage on the facts of what happened on and in the events leading up to Jay 6 leadership.
[00:38:44]  No, no, no name calling.
[00:38:46]  No, his name's Ding Dong.
[00:38:47]  Ding Dong Destiny, whatever it is.
[00:38:49]  The point is, I was there.
[00:38:51]  There was over a million people, and they said police were attacking.
[00:38:55]  We got there, like shooting tear gas, and then a bunch of feds helped break through with some idiots that got mad at a brawl.
[00:39:00]  And then the cops go, come on in, everybody come on in.
[00:39:03]  So, Alex.
[00:39:04]  And so there's all the, everybody sees those videos now.
[00:39:07]  You call this the new Pearl Harbor worse than 9-11.
[00:39:10]  3,000 people.
[00:39:11]  Do you disagree?
[00:39:12]  Let me ask you this.
[00:39:13]  Do you disagree with them claiming this was worse than Pearl Harbor or 9-11?
[00:39:20]  I think it depends how you ask that question.
[00:39:23]  I would say no.
[00:39:23]  It's not worse than Pearl Harbor or 9-11.
[00:39:26]  What are you basing on it?
[00:39:27]  Are you basing it?
[00:39:28]  No, no, no, no, I get it.
[00:39:29]  I get it.
[00:39:30]  Trying to take people's votes away is so sacrificing, but you're trying to take over Trump.
[00:39:35]  We're saying unprecedented that a president of the United States would do everything within his power to prevent the peaceful transfer of power to the next president.
[00:39:42]  He said, I want you to peacefully march down to the Capitol.
[00:39:46]  The march to the Capitol.
[00:39:48]  What was bad was him watching the riot happen for three hours and doing nothing.
[00:39:51]  No, no, it took him an it was the riot was happening.
[00:39:54]  He spoke for an hour and a half.
[00:39:56]  It started then.
[00:39:57]  Then he got back to the White House, watched it like 30, 40 minutes, and then shot a video.
[00:40:01]  No, you're lying.
[00:40:02]  He got back to the White House.
[00:40:04]  Mark Meadows delivered a note to ask that Ashley Babbitt had been shot and he sat there sipping Diet Coke for an hour and a half.
[00:40:11]  The guy that you tell your leader.
[00:40:15]  How many pardons did Trump do for the patriots that got unfairly charged with crimes in the Capitol?
[00:40:20]  I was there.
[00:40:21]  Why didn't Donald Trump harm any of those people?
[00:40:23]  Why didn't Donald Trump?
[00:40:26]  There's not going to be a lot of me talking.
[00:40:28]  Because there's nothing to do with that.
[00:40:30]  They claim every single vote for almost an hour and a half.
[00:40:36]  Just keep it one at a time.
[00:40:37]  It's Capitol when he first started speaking.
[00:40:39]  So you had an hour and a half on it didn't exist.
[00:40:42]  I was there.
[00:40:42]  So you're there, Alex.
[00:40:44]  So tell me, were there weapons there?
[00:40:47]  No, nobody.
[00:40:48]  So are you telling me that?
[00:40:49]  Yes, there were weapons.
[00:40:50]  No, you're right.
[00:40:50]  You got me.
[00:40:51]  He's going to say the cops.
[00:40:52]  Yeah, they shot Ashley Babbitt and they threw people off the balcony and they beat a woman's brains out.
[00:40:59]  You're right.
[00:41:00]  There are seven people.
[00:41:01]  Oh, no, nobody shot a woman.
[00:41:02]  Nobody beat a woman on the bat.
[00:41:03]  Nobody beat a woman on the ground.
[00:41:04]  That's a fake video that got put out.
[00:41:06]  That wasn't.
[00:41:06]  Ashley Babbitt's fake, folks.
[00:41:08]  Wow.
[00:41:09]  I like how you would think that years after the event, we're now getting unreleased footage like there were a thousand people dragging around.
[00:41:15]  There's video of that event.
[00:41:17]  Drag her in without her getting beat by a baton.
[00:41:19]  How would that take years to rely on that?
[00:41:20]  Oh my God, everybody on X, get him saying they didn't beat a woman to death.
[00:41:25]  Can everybody watch that?
[00:41:26]  Yeah, let's be over.
[00:41:28]  You just screwed yourself up.
[00:41:29]  I asked you about that.
[00:41:30]  Got your ass.
[00:41:31]  Woo!
[00:41:32]  All right.
[00:41:33]  Yeah, got his ass down.
[00:41:34]  Once you're done celebrating.
[00:41:36]  Ashley Babbitt, nobody died.
[00:41:38]  Old woman didn't get drugged in by the cops and beat by baton.
[00:41:40]  This is an ego catch game.
[00:41:42]  God, Joe, no, no.
[00:41:43]  He wants to do little one-ups and just what Trump fans are.
[00:41:46]  It totally goes off how much emotion there is.
[00:41:48]  I can talk you.
[00:41:49]  I can talk you.
[00:41:50]  Calm down.
[00:41:51]  Calm down.
[00:41:52]  Okay.
[00:41:52]  So you said the weapons were the Fed shooting Ashley Babbitt.
[00:41:56]  What about how about the guy who, the three men on the corner of 14th and Independence who had AR-15s?
[00:42:05]  How about they didn't use them?
[00:42:08]  Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, what about the pipe bomb?
[00:42:11]  I asked you a question.
[00:42:12]  Who's that?
[00:42:13]  Alex, I asked you a question if people had weapons.
[00:42:15]  How about how many weapons were seized?
[00:42:17]  Hey, I got 75 people.
[00:42:19]  I got a dick.
[00:42:20]  I'm not raping people.
[00:42:21]  75.
[00:42:23]  75 of the people arrested within the Capitol building had weapons.
[00:42:29]  We have a couple of clips.
[00:42:32]  The knaves have weapons and disarm them a million dollars.
[00:42:36]  How about Guy Raffitt?
[00:42:38]  What is he, 3%er or 3%?
[00:42:40]  Does he have nuclear weapons like Biden?
[00:42:41]  Someone in Russia?
[00:42:42]  He had a handgun on the stairs of the Capitol building.
[00:42:46]  As he was encouraging.
[00:42:48]  That's worse than Pearl Harbor.
[00:42:50]  As he was saying, telling people to go into the Capitol, as he was saying, he wants to drag Nancy Pelosi out of the Capitol and hopes her head hits every stair on the way.
[00:43:01]  Just finished my point before you cut me off.
[00:43:03]  He wanted to drag Nancy Pelosi out and let her head hit every stair on the way out.
[00:43:09]  He said, and a guy pooped on Pelosi.
[00:43:12]  We don't blame her.
[00:43:13]  Yeah, let Ed finish this point because we're going to go to Darren really quick.
[00:43:16]  On his way to the Capitol building, that they're going to take the Capitol and insert their own government.
[00:43:22]  Yeah, so that's why I'm going to go to people, and you call it like Martians invading and blowing the earth up.
[00:43:29]  Like Lynn Ringwald said, his intention wasn't an insurrection.
[00:43:32]  Are you saying his intention wasn't an insurrection?
[00:43:34]  He's saying he's going to drag Nancy Pelosi out.
[00:43:35]  He's saying he wasn't under Trump's command.
[00:43:39]  Trump said he's like peacefully.
[00:43:40]  Alex, can I tell you?
[00:43:41]  Trump said, yes, you can finish your point, and then we're going to go to Darren.
[00:43:44]  Can we use a mute button or something on Alex?
[00:43:46]  No, I'm not going to be run over.
[00:43:48]  So he was on his way to the Capitol building saying, we're going to take the Capitol and install our own government.
[00:43:54]  He had a handgun.
[00:43:56]  He's got a handgun on his kids.
[00:43:58]  On the stairs of the Capitol saying he's going to drag Nancy Pelosi and Mitch McConnell out.
[00:44:03]  But you don't have a problem with that.
[00:44:05]  He didn't use a gun.
[00:44:06]  What do you think, Darren Pelosi?
[00:44:07]  Oh, he didn't use the gun because he didn't have the opportunity.
[00:44:09]  Did he shoot Nancy Pelosi or Mike Pence?
[00:44:12]  That's okay.
[00:44:12]  He didn't have access to that.
[00:44:13]  I didn't say that was okay.
[00:44:14]  Thankfully, the Capitol peace.
[00:44:16]  Thankfully, the Capitol.
[00:44:17]  What about the Chu Shaman?
[00:44:18]  What about the Chu Shaman?
[00:44:19]  They flew in the Capitol, please.
[00:44:21]  All right, okay.
[00:44:22]  Oh, we want a guy out of diet.
[00:44:26]  You can't vote for Trump now.
[00:44:27]  A guy had a gun.
[00:44:28]  I've been asked by Zero Hedge to moderate this debate, so that's what I'm going to do.
[00:44:31]  Everyone, quiet down.
[00:44:32]  We're going to Darren Beatty.
[00:44:33]  Darren.
[00:44:35]  What's happening?
[00:44:36]  What's this question here?
[00:44:38]  This is a freaking coup.
[00:44:39]  What do you think about what they've been saying as well?
[00:44:41]  I don't think it's a coup.
[00:44:44]  Again, I think the question of an insurrection, you can go to the etymology of rising up.
[00:44:49]  That could be anything.
[00:44:50]  If we keep the proper perspective in mind, it doesn't elevate to anything resembling the Civil War, 9-11, or any of the crazy capitalists.
[00:44:59]  One guy with a gun isn't as big as a civil war.
[00:45:01]  No.
[00:45:02]  They didn't use the gun?
[00:45:04]  Darren, keep going.
[00:45:06]  So there's that.
[00:45:07]  The scope, I think, matters, and that's what we're really getting at when we talk about insurrection.
[00:45:12]  The courts are politically weaponized, so I wouldn't even rest the legitimacy on that question on the determinations of the courts, which we can see are running away with pretty wild and ridiculous theories.
[00:45:26]  Weaponized court systems.
[00:45:28]  So there's that.
[00:45:29]  And then, you know, these, you know, sure, there are random nut jobs who are around D.C. on that day and any other day.
[00:45:35]  And so I don't think that's relevant to the ultimate question of whether it was a coup, whether it was an insurrection.
[00:45:43]  And as I said before, the stuff about Trump and the legal theory behind his multiple-part plan, that could be an interesting discussion.
[00:45:53]  It's technically outside the scope of the debate.
[00:45:56]  But again, I would reiterate, anyone who knows Trump, anyone who knows people who knows Trump, 100% certainty Trump genuinely believes that the election was stolen.

=== Oath-Breaking Witnesses (06:05) ===

[00:46:07]  He had multiple legal advisors.
[00:46:10]  Many of his advisors were trying to sabotage him from day one.
[00:46:14]  Just because he was advised by one of these snakes doesn't mean that he therefore agrees with what they say.
[00:46:20]  He agreed with the people who told him it was stolen and that he had legal recourse to address that, which he implemented.
[00:46:28]  So there's nothing that rises to an insurrection or coup about that either, even though that's outside of the scope of our discussion for today.
[00:46:36]  So Cassidy Hutchison said that Trump said to Mark Meadows, I don't want people to know we lost.
[00:46:43]  It's embarrassing.
[00:46:45]  I'm glad that you mentioned her because this gets to the televised sham.
[00:46:49]  But she was under oath.
[00:46:51]  Who under oath for Trump said?
[00:46:53]  Well, she's changed her story a bunch.
[00:46:56]  She was under the oath.
[00:46:57]  She was under oath.
[00:46:57]  So the thing here is that— Under oath?
[00:47:00]  Listen.
[00:47:01]  So the thing here is that— Why is the January 6th committee destroying the transcript?
[00:47:04]  The January 6th committee called near—98% of their witnesses were Republicans.
[00:47:12]  It was kangaroo.
[00:47:13]  These people were under oath, Republicans, and they testified.
[00:47:16]  The people who didn't testify within the Trump circle, there were dozens who Fifth Amendment, Fifth Amendment, Fifth Amendment.
[00:47:26]  They refused to say a word.
[00:47:27]  So you're going to tell me that the people that testified under oath are the liars, but the people that said things in the public but failed to say anything under oath are the ones that are telling the liars.
[00:47:39]  Let me say that.
[00:47:40]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:47:42]  I wasn't just there on January 6th.
[00:47:44]  I was in that congressional hearing and took the 5th 98 times.
[00:47:47]  And not because I think to hide.
[00:47:49]  The Fifth Amendment isn't just to incriminate yourself.
[00:47:52]  It's because they wanted me in a perjury trap.
[00:47:55]  They were to have witnesses claiming something wasn't true.
[00:47:57]  You think I think attacking the Capitol makes us win an election?
[00:48:00]  Yeah, but witnesses against their testimony versus you can't get you in perjury.
[00:48:05]  They can't.
[00:48:06]  Oh, yeah.
[00:48:06]  Just ask Roger Stone that question.
[00:48:07]  No, it doesn't happen that way.
[00:48:09]  How did Roger Stone, how did perjury get Roger Stone that way?
[00:48:11]  Roger Stone wasn't with all the WikiLeaks.
[00:48:14]  He worked here then.
[00:48:15]  He couldn't get a hold of him.
[00:48:16]  I knew he told the truth.
[00:48:17]  He didn't tell anybody I'm behind the WikiLeaks.
[00:48:20]  They said Roger Stone ran WikiLeaks.
[00:48:22]  He never even talked to Julian Assange.
[00:48:23]  They didn't say he ran WikiLeaks.
[00:48:25]  They freaking tried to put it.
[00:48:26]  He's in communication.
[00:48:27]  I think this is getting a little tough.
[00:48:28]  Oh, man.
[00:48:29]  This is off topic.
[00:48:30]  That's okay.
[00:48:31]  Roger didn't lie to Congress when he said, I don't know Wiki.
[00:48:34]  I have not interviewed Assange.
[00:48:36]  Let's pull back to it.
[00:48:36]  Darren, I wanted to.
[00:48:37]  Darren's going to finish off what you were saying about this.
[00:48:39]  And I think, Glenn, you were going to mention something after that.
[00:48:41]  And then I have a couple of clips that we're going to play.
[00:48:43]  But, Darren, yeah.
[00:48:43]  I mean, the January 6th hearings were a show trial of the sort that would make Kim Jong-il blush.
[00:48:52]  Explain it to him.
[00:48:53]  They wouldn't let Republicans that they wanted under the law on the committee.
[00:48:57]  They wanted Jim Jordan, who was actually you on.
[00:49:02]  We pick who the people are on our jury.
[00:49:05]  Jim Jordan was investigated by Trump either.
[00:49:10]  They wanted a person on the committee who was being investigated by the committee.
[00:49:15]  How does that make it?
[00:49:16]  Oh my God, when you're being investigated by the Democrats, you don't have a lot of people.
[00:49:19]  I think a lot of people watching don't understand.
[00:49:21]  Hey, guys, guys.
[00:49:25]  People that are listening don't have the context.
[00:49:26]  So if we start rapid-fire argumentation, a lot of people are going to lose interest.
[00:49:30]  We need to stay focused and listen to each other.
[00:49:31]  It's really important.
[00:49:32]  Saying focus on the people who are going to be able to bring their case.
[00:49:35]  It is really hard.
[00:49:35]  They're not going to end their case when they have to stay focused.
[00:49:37]  It's all very hard.
[00:49:39]  It is possible.
[00:49:40]  I'm going to go take a piss and I'll let you tell people fairy tales.
[00:49:42]  But what we're happening is, Darren is going to continue what you were saying about finishing up your thought.
[00:49:46]  And then we're going to Glenn Greenwald.
[00:49:48]  Yeah, well, the thought was just about is Hutchinson.
[00:49:51]  She said a lot of things.
[00:49:52]  I believe she was the one who said that Trump reached over to the steering wheel and told the Secret Service this or that, which was a bizarre thing because the Secret Service agents in question weren't the ones that were called upon to testify.
[00:50:06]  Some of them testified the same thing that Cassidy Hutchinson said.
[00:50:10]  No, the Secret Service actually said we would love to testify and they weren't allowed to.
[00:50:14]  The two Secret Service agents in question, that specific anecdote, were not allowed to testify.
[00:50:21]  So why would they take this secondhand report from Hutchinson when they could have interrogated directly the people who would have been direct witnesses to that?
[00:50:31]  They're in whatever point.
[00:50:32]  Not those two specific agents, but why not?
[00:50:35]  Other agents in the car with Trump testified for the JSX committee.
[00:50:39]  I don't know why they would or wouldn't testify or have particular people testify, but other people in that car did.
[00:50:45]  No.
[00:50:46]  Yes.
[00:50:47]  Can you hear me?
[00:50:49]  Yeah, Glenn.
[00:50:51]  The January 6th Committee, and that's what Alex was alluding to just a second ago, is one of the biggest shams in the history of Congress because what happened with the January 6th committee was we had a long history of 225 years of tradition in the United States Congress where whenever investigative commissions would be created within the Congress, the minority leader and the majority leader would each select the members of that committee to ensure there was fair representation by both parties.
[00:51:15]  Nancy Pelosi, for the first time in the history of the United States, as Speaker of the House, refused to allow the Republicans who were chosen for that committee by Kevin McCarthy, at the time, the Republican majority leader, minority leader, to be seated on the panel.
[00:51:33]  And as a result, the Republicans said, we're going to have nothing to do with this.
[00:51:36]  And the only quote-unquote Republicans that were chosen was Liz Cheney, who ended up losing her seat by 36 points, and Adam Kinzinger, who didn't bother running again because they were so unrepresentative of the Republican Party.
[00:51:47]  It was a completely partisan commission.
[00:51:50]  And on top of that, none of the videotapes that were available was made available to the public except for very deceitfully chosen snippets by Adam Schiff and by Liz Cheney.

=== Peaceful Entry Joke (15:54) ===

[00:52:03]  And it was only within the last several months that we saw all of the video footage.
[00:52:07]  And what it showed makes a joke of the idea that this was a coup.
[00:52:11]  You had people peacefully walking into the Capitol, led by many of the police officers who encouraged them to enter peacefully, which they did.
[00:52:19]  The vast majority of people who were there at January 6th aren't even charged with using violence.
[00:52:25]  And that's what makes this whole debate such a preposterous joke.
[00:52:28]  If you look at how coups are carried out in other countries, you can make a much better case that the Black Lives Matter protest of 2020 was an insurrectionary movement.
[00:52:37]  And the reason it matters, Destiny, is because if you're going to make arguments, there has to be an important test, which is, do you apply the same principles you're claiming to profess and believe in to cases where it undermines your partisan allegiance and your ideology, not only where it helps it.
[00:52:51]  That's one of the key tasks for determining the authenticity of your argument.
[00:52:55]  And so if you don't think the 2020 protest movement was an insurrectionary movement against the United States government, there's no way to claim what January 6th was, especially since Trump could have done so much more to cause a coup that he did not do because that wasn't his aim ever.
[00:53:09]  If you want to talk about applying the same standard, would you have been okay in the year 2000 if Gore refused to certify the vote because he didn't like what was happening in Florida?
[00:53:17]  A lot of Democrats did not.
[00:53:18]  You want to answer that question.
[00:53:20]  Glenn, answer the question.
[00:53:22]  Yes, a lot of Democrats were angry about that.
[00:53:26]  I'm asking, you would be okay personally if he refused to certify the vote.
[00:53:30]  I think there were two.
[00:53:31]  You want to answer the question.
[00:53:32]  In 2016, would you have been okay if you been okay with Biden?
[00:53:37]  Because if you really believe that an election is stolen, it's the Democrats claim they did, then it is kind of odd to say we're just going to concede that and allow George Bush to march into power, even though we believe that he actually stole the election.
[00:53:50]  Yes, that is kind of an odd thing.
[00:53:51]  No, it's not your death.
[00:53:53]  It's not all at all.
[00:53:54]  We live in a democracy.
[00:53:55]  There are appropriate forums through which you can get away from the power.
[00:53:57]  Did they not battle that out in the courts?
[00:53:59]  And they lost.
[00:54:00]  Once they had your day and you lost.
[00:54:04]  And you lost.
[00:54:04]  Once you lose, anything past that is vigilanteism.
[00:54:08]  Vigilanteism directed at the government to prevent the peaceful transfer of power to entrench your own power is an attempted coup.
[00:54:14]  That's what he tried to do.
[00:54:16]  He told them to be peaceful.
[00:54:17]  He told them go and take it.
[00:54:19]  We're not talking about the peaceful protesters.
[00:54:22]  And if he wanted them to be peaceful, he might call on the National Guard as soon as they started riding, but he didn't do that.
[00:54:27]  We're talking about the legal process of the congressional and judicial process.
[00:54:32]  He went and if he had ordered the military or some other FBI or any of those agencies, the CIA, to go and use violence on domestic soil in order to ignore those court rulings the way people do when they're trying to implement coups, you would have a good argument.
[00:54:47]  He didn't do any of that.
[00:54:48]  He invoked all of his legal rights in the judiciary and in the Congress.
[00:54:51]  He lost and he walked out of the White House on January 20th.
[00:54:54]  He did not have to be dragged out.
[00:54:55]  He wasn't arrested by the military, which is what happens in coups.
[00:54:59]  So much of this is because you only started paying attention to politics in 2016.
[00:55:03]  You only live in the United States.
[00:55:04]  You have no idea about history or anything that happens in other countries.
[00:55:07]  You have no idea what a coup is.
[00:55:09]  This is a coup.
[00:55:10]  You're bringing that up.
[00:55:11]  Glenn, you bring it up.
[00:55:12]  You're trying to use Hawaii as an example for something that was comparable where both slates of electors were actually duly elected by the people there.
[00:55:19]  In the 60s, Hawaii and South Carolina, these other historical examples that people go to for multiple states of electors are not at all comparable.
[00:55:26]  Both of these things happened prior to 2016.
[00:55:28]  There are no examples in U.S. history, or if you want to give me one, since you know so much history prior to 2016, give it to me.
[00:55:33]  Is there any other examples in U.S. history where the president is telling the vice president to unilaterally not certify the vote?
[00:55:40]  Has that ever happened before?
[00:55:42]  That's a totally separate question.
[00:55:44]  But then what happened on January 6th?
[00:55:47]  It doesn't matter if it's the first time that it ever happened, even if it's the first time or the 10th time, it's still not a coup or an insurrection.
[00:55:53]  A coup or an insurrection is when you use violence and force in order to seize control of power outside of the legal process.
[00:56:00]  So a coup has to happen.
[00:56:04]  So if there's no violence, it can't be a coup.
[00:56:06]  Wasn't there violence?
[00:56:07]  I saw violence.
[00:56:08]  Yeah, you need violence in order to be the coup.
[00:56:11]  The amount of violence you need.
[00:56:16]  To the January 6th protesters, not from them.
[00:56:20]  Again, not a single protester whipped out a gun, let alone used a gun.
[00:56:24]  That is extremely weird.
[00:56:27]  How many officers are injured?
[00:56:29]  140?
[00:56:30]  Wait, wait, is that enough violence for you?
[00:56:32]  Well, here's a good question about who, like staging a coup, an emergent phenomenon.
[00:56:37]  And if a crowd becomes violent or if someone directs the crowd to become violent, this is actually the next question on my list.
[00:56:42]  Do you guys think that Trump was responsible for this thing?
[00:56:45]  And before you answer, I want to play a couple of clips.
[00:56:47]  We have clip one and two.
[00:56:49]  These are from Trump's speeches on the day.
[00:56:52]  I think the first clip is before the violence kicked off.
[00:56:56]  Maybe we can play that first.
[00:56:59]  I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.
[00:57:08]  We can't play into the hands of these people.
[00:57:13]  We have to have peace.
[00:57:15]  So go home.
[00:57:16]  We love you.
[00:57:17]  You're very special.
[00:57:19]  You've seen what happens.
[00:57:20]  You see the way others are treated that are so bad and so evil.
[00:57:26]  I know how you feel, but go home and go home in peace.
[00:57:30]  That second clip was from after the violence had become.
[00:57:35]  And so he was kind of doing damage control, I think, at that point.
[00:57:38]  But I just don't understand all of the insanely arbitrary caps that we're trying to create to try to say that it wasn't a coup.
[00:57:43]  Well, there was violence, but there wasn't enough.
[00:57:45]  There was a subversion of the Democratic process, but it didn't end up working.
[00:57:48]  Like, if the plan would have gone as Donald Trump wanted it to have gone, which is Vice President Pence unilaterally tossing out the Electoral College vote, and if Donald Trump would have retained power past when he was supposed to lose it, what is that, if not a coup?
[00:58:02]  What would you call that?
[00:58:03]  No one ordered those people, the few hundred that actually fought police to do that.
[00:58:07]  That's great.
[00:58:08]  What would you call that, though?
[00:58:09]  Trump's not having charged.
[00:58:10]  No one said Trump's been charged with insurrection or inciting a riot.
[00:58:13]  Jack Smith especially did it.
[00:58:15]  But we can't vote for him because they're not.
[00:58:17]  What would you call it if Pence would have unilaterally thrown out the vote and Trump would have held on to power for some weeks?
[00:58:22]  Trump was calling for a 10-day Senate investigation.
[00:58:25]  That's why we were there.
[00:58:26]  That's great.
[00:58:26]  What would have happened if Pence would have thrown out the vote?
[00:58:28]  That's a hypothetical.
[00:58:29]  Trump wanted a 10-day investigation.
[00:58:30]  No, but I don't care what Trump wants.
[00:58:32]  Trump wanted Pence to throw out the vote.
[00:58:33]  Yeah, what would have happened?
[00:58:34]  What would you have?
[00:58:35]  Yeah, what would we have called that?
[00:58:36]  Can I get a name for that?
[00:58:37]  If you don't want to call it a coup or an insurrection, what would you call that?
[00:58:41]  Well, I'd call it taking Trump off the ballot and saying we can't vote for him.
[00:58:44]  Well, I know you won't answer because you probably know he's guilty.
[00:58:46]  That's fine.
[00:58:47]  What about Glenn?
[00:58:48]  Glenn, what would you call it if the president was able to entrench his power by asking his vice president to throw out the vote unilaterally, which is what he was trying to do?
[00:58:56]  Do you want to deny the facts?
[00:58:57]  Do you want to deny that it's a coup?
[00:58:58]  What part?
[00:58:59]  A coup.
[00:59:00]  You're lucky there wasn't a real coup.
[00:59:02]  Shows the weakness of the argument, but if that had happened, my guess is it would have ended up in the Supreme Court.
[00:59:07]  The Supreme Court would have made the decision about whether Mike Pence exercised his proper authority as vice president.
[00:59:12]  And then Donald Trump, if he had run out of options, would have left the White House on January 20th without any need for military force or police force, exactly how he did.
[00:59:20]  And I would have called that the exhaustion of all of the legal remedies available to the president in the event that he was going to be able to do it.
[00:59:26]  Exactly.
[00:59:26]  And therefore, it would have been just the way the Bush v.
[00:59:30]  Gore thing played out.
[00:59:31]  Okay.
[00:59:31]  Exhausting your legal options, getting up to the Supreme Court.
[00:59:35]  The Supreme Court makes the determination.
[00:59:38]  If both of you accept that, then, then, if the Supreme Court says that because of Amendment 14, Section 3, Trump can't be on the ballot, you would both accept that as well.
[00:59:46]  We already accepted that.
[00:59:47]  I think that would be authoritative.
[00:59:49]  I would think it would be.
[00:59:50]  It was authoritative, but Donald Trump, one man, centralizing power among himself to remain in power.
[00:59:55]  That's not authoritative.
[00:59:58]  He didn't do that.
[00:59:59]  That's what he tried to do.
[01:00:00]  That is what happened.
[01:00:01]  I know you only read tweets and headlines, Glenn, but believe it or not, that's actually what happened.
[01:00:06]  That was our goal, was a 10-day Senate investigation into the Constitution.
[01:00:10]  That's not what was happening behind the scenes, though.
[01:00:12]  There's testimony from the lawyers involved.
[01:00:15]  They were wargaming everything.
[01:00:16]  Exactly.
[01:00:17]  The Attorney General, the assistant AG, the Assistant Deputy AG, all of his legal counsel, all of the state senators, all of the congressmen.
[01:00:24]  If I could talk over you, I'd be way better than you.
[01:00:25]  That's what you've been doing the whole time.
[01:00:26]  I don't know.
[01:00:27]  You're doing it, and then I dominate you.
[01:00:29]  You can't handle it.
[01:00:29]  Okay.
[01:00:30]  He didn't do that, and he left, is the point.
[01:00:34]  And that's the reality.
[01:00:35]  And now they say we can't vote for him, even though we all know Biden's going to win by 10 million votes.
[01:00:40]  That's why we call it an attempted coup and not an actual successful coup.
[01:00:43]  Alex, do you think that Trump was responsible for this thing on January 6th?
[01:00:47]  100% not.
[01:00:48]  He'd had hundreds of rallies around the country, five or six that we were part of in the months before this.
[01:00:53]  And we had the space.
[01:00:55]  We had, here's the Capitol right up to the Supreme Court on the Capitol grounds.
[01:00:58]  We had a stage, and then we get there, and it's Bedlam.
[01:01:02]  And so, no, Trump didn't think attacking the Capitol would make him look good.
[01:01:05]  That's why he came out and said that don't do this and go home.
[01:01:09]  Why didn't he call them off immediately if he thought it didn't make him look good?
[01:01:12]  It was happening while he was giving a speech.
[01:01:14]  Wrong.
[01:01:14]  The reason why he didn't call them off is because him, Giuliani, and Eastman were making phone calls to other senators and congressmen asking them to decertify the electoral vote.
[01:01:22]  No, no, no.
[01:01:23]  You were there, but would you acknowledge that that happened or we're talking about the crowd?
[01:01:27]  I don't care about the crowd.
[01:01:29]  I'm saying that as the riot was raging on and he was sitting there sipping his Diet Coke, if this really made him and his followers look bad, why didn't Donald Trump make a video immediately?
[01:01:37]  Yeah, I'm about to do it because I can talk over you really easy.
[01:01:39]  That's what you've been doing the whole time.
[01:01:40]  No, no, no, you're doing it.
[01:01:41]  I look forward to you dodging the question again.
[01:01:42]  You're doing it.
[01:01:43]  No, you.
[01:01:44]  So, knew you.
[01:01:45]  No, you.
[01:01:46]  You.
[01:01:46]  You.
[01:01:46]  No, you.
[01:01:47]  You.
[01:01:47]  You.
[01:01:47]  Both of you.
[01:01:48]  Keep doing it.
[01:01:49]  What do you guys think?
[01:01:49]  That's what I'm going to do.
[01:01:51]  Trump did.
[01:01:54]  While he was speaking, I was getting text messages, violence to the Capitol, and I left to try to go stop it.
[01:02:01]  And when I got there, he was still speaking.
[01:02:05]  So this thing where you guys say, oh, the attack started at this time, and Trump did nothing this time.
[01:02:11]  He's speaking while it happens for hours.
[01:02:13]  He then goes to the White House, tries to figure out what's going on, and puts a statement out against it.
[01:02:17]  And he said in the middle of a speech, off a teleprompter, go be peaceful.
[01:02:24]  That's what he said.
[01:02:25]  Didn't Trump get back to the audience like 130?
[01:02:26]  He also said fight like hell.
[01:02:28]  Why don't he fight like this?
[01:02:29]  We don't fight like hell.
[01:02:30]  We're not going to have a country.
[01:02:31]  Rudy, what did Willie Giuliani say?
[01:02:33]  He said, let's have trial by combat.
[01:02:37]  That's a legal term.
[01:02:37]  But Maxine Water said.
[01:02:39]  Don't attack Republicans in restaurants.
[01:02:42]  Grocery stores.
[01:02:44]  With her, it wasn't hyperbole.
[01:02:45]  Why don't we?
[01:02:46]  He never said Trump never supported political violence.
[01:02:49]  Trump never told people to be goons.
[01:02:50]  The lefts would burn down half the country.
[01:02:52]  Everybody knows that.
[01:02:53]  Everybody knows Biden's erased the border.
[01:02:56]  Everybody knows all this.
[01:02:56]  You're sitting there claiming this was.
[01:02:59]  Do you agree?
[01:03:00]  This was as big as Pearl Harbor.
[01:03:02]  What are you comparing it?
[01:03:04]  As big as Pearl Harbor in what way?
[01:03:05]  By the way, 2,000 lives in Pearl Harbor.
[01:03:07]  People dead?
[01:03:08]  No, maybe a blemish on our democracy.
[01:03:12]  I'd say it was very close.
[01:03:14]  Let me ask you this.
[01:03:14]  If they bring in, which they've done, 10 million legal aliens the last three years, and then that gives them, with the congressional seats in the census, more Democrat seats in the Congress, is that undocumented aliens, undocumented immigrants are not voting.
[01:03:28]  They are counted.
[01:03:29]  No, they are not.
[01:03:30]  They're counted in the census.
[01:03:31]  But they're not voting.
[01:03:32]  They're counted in the census.
[01:03:34]  They're not voting.
[01:03:34]  So then they get more Democrat discussions.
[01:03:36]  Let's backtrack really fast.
[01:03:37]  Oh, my God.
[01:03:38]  So let's backtrack.
[01:03:40]  They're all killing elections.
[01:03:42]  With the illegals, they're backtracking.
[01:03:46]  More congressional districts.
[01:03:48]  Yeah, I do.
[01:03:48]  Can we go back to January 6th?
[01:03:50]  Okay, so you play those clips.
[01:03:51]  Oh, you always want to get off of it because it wasn't.
[01:03:54]  That's why I'm not sure if you're not going to bring out the real insurrection.
[01:03:58]  You can't handle it.
[01:03:58]  I'm not here to debate immigration.
[01:04:00]  Talk to me, Brian.
[01:04:01]  Okay, so why don't we ask the oath keepers, the three percenters, the proud boys, the ones who were actually indicted and convicted of seditious conspiracy, why they did it.
[01:04:14]  Well, you know, they told us.
[01:04:15]  Yeah, they did tell us.
[01:04:17]  They did tell us.
[01:04:19]  Wait, wait, yeah, let Brian finish.
[01:04:21]  And then you can come back at me.
[01:04:23]  Joe Biggs, he said, I did it because this is where Trump wanted me.
[01:04:28]  He wanted me to do this.
[01:04:29]  Stuart Rhodes, Oath Keepers, same thing.
[01:04:33]  I did it for Trump.
[01:04:34]  Multiple Proud Boys and Oath Keepers, they all said, I was here because of Trump.
[01:04:40]  I went into the Capitol.
[01:04:42]  I took the Capitol because that's what Trump wanted.
[01:04:45]  So did Trump, was Trump responsible?
[01:04:48]  Ask them.
[01:04:49]  Ask the people that are serving 20 years in prison for seditious conspiracy.
[01:04:54]  I'd like to respond to that now.
[01:04:56]  I know Stuart Rhodes well.
[01:04:58]  I know Joe Biggs well.
[01:04:59]  He used to work here.
[01:05:01]  And they have never said Trump told them to go into the Capitol.
[01:05:05]  They have never said they did it because he asked them to.
[01:05:08]  That is not a true statement.
[01:05:12]  That is a true statement.
[01:05:13]  Joe's quotes from the corporate.
[01:05:15]  Joe Biggs shook a fence.
[01:05:18]  Shook a fence.
[01:05:19]  Stuart Rhodes said he never told anybody to go on the Capitol and never went in the Capitol.
[01:05:23]  And you just said they said that Trump told them.
[01:05:26]  Multiple Proud Boys said they were in the Capitol because that's what Trump wanted.
[01:05:30]  Trump.
[01:05:30]  Oh, you wanted the Jack Smith federal filing?
[01:05:32]  Next, we'll talk about the newspaper.
[01:05:34]  Jack Smith didn't indict the Proud Boys.
[01:05:37]  They have messages between the group.
[01:05:39]  They have the actual files.
[01:05:40]  No, I know all about it.
[01:05:41]  Yes.
[01:05:42]  Have you?
[01:05:43]  Are you saying these are fabricated?
[01:05:44]  No, no, no, read me the quotes.
[01:05:46]  Yeah, read those quotes.
[01:05:47]  I mean, I have said, we were here to storm the Capitol.
[01:05:51]  We were here because of Trump.
[01:05:53]  Trump, I mean, there's any difference.
[01:05:59]  And the way they say Trump told us the best quote.
[01:06:01]  Nobody said peacefully.
[01:06:03]  This is a red herring.
[01:06:05]  They're not saying that Donald Trump personally communicated to them to go to the Capitol.
[01:06:09]  What they're saying is the reason why they were there, which I think over 147 convicted people have thus far in their convictions.
[01:06:14]  I've said the reason why they were there is because Trump called them to go there.
[01:06:17]  Not personally.
[01:06:18]  Not both kept.
[01:06:19]  You know how many of those people cited rate Epsys the reason why they were in the Capitol?
[01:06:22]  Take a guess.
[01:06:23]  Well, wait a minute.
[01:06:24]  Wait a minute.
[01:06:26]  In both Proud Boys and Oathkeepers' cases, the Fed said there was no direct conspiracy.
[01:06:33]  No one is talking about this.
[01:06:34]  That's not considered.
[01:06:35]  He went on to say now it's a new conspiracy where it's not written or said.
[01:06:40]  They just imagine it.
[01:06:41]  Inciting the people.
[01:06:44]  I want to be clear.
[01:06:46]  What is your contention with this?
[01:06:47]  Give me the quote and then what your contention is in relation to the quote.
[01:06:52]  Like Destiny said, there are 140 convictions where the people convicted said, I was there because of Trump.
[01:07:00]  Trump called us to do this.
[01:07:01]  And when I say called us, I don't mean to call them on the federal sake of argument that that's true.
[01:07:05]  What is your conclusion from that?
[01:07:07]  Trump helped incite this.
[01:07:09]  Well, just because they thought they were helping Trump, that doesn't mean that Trump told them to do that.
[01:07:14]  That's true.
[01:07:16]  Let's look at the actual.
[01:07:18]  It's like, wait, wait, Alex.
[01:07:20]  It's like saying, you know, Alex Charles Manson presumably thought Helter Skelter was, you know, telling him to kill.
[01:07:32]  So is that the argument that Trump is?

=== Trump's Election Steal Claims (15:47) ===

[01:07:34]  You know, Trump is essentially Helter Skelter.
[01:07:37]  No, no, no, you're not.
[01:07:37]  And he's telling these Proud Boys that you need to go.
[01:07:41]  Did the Modbos tell his peons, go kill this guy, or do they use other language?
[01:07:46]  Well, what's the language that he used that you think is criminal?
[01:07:48]  The language Trump, the language of the people.
[01:07:51]  The language of the ideas that Trump discussed was that the election was being stolen.
[01:07:55]  Okay, so that's criminal?
[01:07:56]  I never said that was coming.
[01:07:57]  It's not being indicted for that speech.
[01:07:59]  You're asking why are the people at the White House?
[01:08:01]  All of the Trump's indictments and charges for January 6th are not focused on the people under the state.
[01:08:06]  What's the point of argument there that Trump was stolen?
[01:08:11]  And people assume that they interpreted that as meaning, oh, we need to go to storm the Capitol, that that's somehow Trump's fault and he's criminally liable for it and it rises to an insurrection.
[01:08:22]  I'm trying to be clear what the case is.
[01:08:23]  I can even explain it.
[01:08:25]  What Trump did was Trump laid out very precisely exactly what he believed had happened.
[01:08:30]  He thought that the vote was being stolen, that our country was being taken from us.
[01:08:34]  Not believe he wanted others to believe.
[01:08:36]  That Congress wasn't acting, that Mike Pence was supposed to be the guy to do it, but he hadn't heard good things about them, and they needed to go down to the Capitol building to protest.
[01:08:44]  To protest what?
[01:08:46]  To protest.
[01:08:48]  Nobody is saying that.
[01:08:48]  You're being the same thing.
[01:08:49]  You're like a broken record.
[01:08:51]  You're a broken record.
[01:08:52]  No, no, I'm not a broken record.
[01:08:54]  You try to shut me down.
[01:08:55]  Listen, here's the bottom line.
[01:08:56]  Trump's not been charged with the insurrection.
[01:08:59]  No one said he was.
[01:09:00]  Trump didn't, but you're saying people can't vote for him.
[01:09:02]  No, I'm not saying that.
[01:09:04]  That's up to the Supreme Court.
[01:09:04]  No, that's the dip.
[01:09:05]  Do you support no one here is talking about Colorado and Maine taking him off the ballot?
[01:09:10]  That's up to the Supreme Court.
[01:09:11]  No, you punt.
[01:09:12]  Do you think it's good for the opposing party when a guy's way ahead of the polls to remove someone from the ballot?
[01:09:18]  It's not about him being ahead in the polls or not.
[01:09:20]  It's about whether or not he engaged in insurrection and if the self-executing part of the 14th Amendment allows Trump found guilty for the 14th Amendment, read it.
[01:09:32]  Somebody, can we bring the 14th Amendment up on yourself?
[01:09:35]  You're misrepresenting that, and it doesn't matter because we have a right to vote for who we want, right?
[01:09:40]  No, you don't.
[01:09:41]  Within reason.
[01:09:42]  You can't vote for somebody under 35 years old.
[01:09:44]  You can't vote for somebody that's not a Glenn.
[01:09:46]  U.S. citizen.
[01:09:46]  They look like you want to chime in, Glenn.
[01:09:48]  He's unpopular, though.
[01:09:49]  He lost.
[01:09:50]  Well, we can't vote for him now.
[01:09:51]  If you think it's so bad that the courts are kicking him off the ballot, what do you think about Trump doing the birtharism card for Obama for how many years?
[01:09:57]  That was the first big political thing he was known for.
[01:09:59]  It was challenging whether Obama was even born in the United States in an attempt to get him kicked off the ballot.
[01:10:03]  No, no, you know why?
[01:10:04]  I can play the clips of Obama's.
[01:10:06]  And now you're going to justify that.
[01:10:08]  You're going to read my mind?
[01:10:09]  That's what it said.
[01:10:10]  You're playing the clip.
[01:10:12]  I'm not scared of you talking.
[01:10:13]  There's clips of Obama and his wife saying he was born in Kenya.
[01:10:18]  I don't believe he was born in Kenya.
[01:10:19]  He was born in Hawaii to the head of the Communist Party there, actually.
[01:10:25]  So who's in his book?
[01:10:29]  So that's what's going on here.
[01:10:32]  It doesn't matter.
[01:10:33]  If Trump wants to say the moon's made of cheese, we have a right to vote for him.
[01:10:38]  Trump can say whatever he wants.
[01:10:39]  That's not what's getting him removed from the ballots, potentially.
[01:10:41]  Glenn Glenn.
[01:10:42]  He's a loser.
[01:10:43]  You know what?
[01:10:44]  You can vote for him.
[01:10:44]  You actually, you can vote for him.
[01:10:47]  You can vote for him.
[01:10:48]  You can.
[01:10:48]  You can write him in.
[01:10:49]  But the 14th Amendment says he can't hold office if he incited.
[01:10:53]  But who's gave any amount of money?
[01:10:54]  Who's found him guilty of insurrection?
[01:10:56]  We talked about it.
[01:10:56]  He doesn't mean that he found guilty.
[01:10:58]  Nobody was found guilty of violating insurrection.
[01:11:01]  We built this question.
[01:11:04]  Nobody.
[01:11:05]  And that was an insurrection.
[01:11:06]  Wait, wait, wait.
[01:11:06]  Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to my house for a moment.
[01:11:09]  Hello.
[01:11:10]  Hi, I'm Ian Crossland, and I'm moderating this awesome debate.
[01:11:12]  Glenn Greenwell's about to speak.
[01:11:13]  I want to hear what he has to say.
[01:11:14]  He's been waiting patiently for about one minute.
[01:11:16]  Glenn, what's happening?
[01:11:18]  Thanks.
[01:11:18]  Yeah, so first of all, on the issue of the ballot, there have been split decisions on this, and even Democratic judges in Colorado and then the Democratic, very partisan Secretary of State in Rhode Island, as well as in California, have all said they don't think it's appropriate to remove Trump from the ballot because he has not yet been charged with, let alone convicted of, insurrection.
[01:11:36]  So I want to be very deferential to Destiny's incredible achievements in constitutional scholarship, but there are actually a lot of even Democratic Party elected officials who are saying, as well as judges of the California, of the Colorado Supreme Court who are appointed by Democratic Party governors, who are saying that you cannot actually remove somebody because to remove them from the ballot is to punish them for a crime, insurrection, that Trump has never been charged with and therefore has never had the opportunity to defend himself the way a criminal is.
[01:12:04]  Wait, why are you citing the dissent?
[01:12:06]  Glenn, why is he citing the dissent?
[01:12:09]  Why are you citing a dissent?
[01:12:10]  Even in a losing case, like it proves your point.
[01:12:13]  No, also, also, people are dumb.
[01:12:18]  I have a direct question.
[01:12:20]  I know you're scared of Glenn.
[01:12:21]  Let him continue.
[01:12:22]  No one's ever been second off the ballot without being convicted.
[01:12:25]  Okay, Glenn, continue and then Darren's going to ask.
[01:12:28]  The secretaries of state of California and Rhode Island have also said the same thing, but it's true.
[01:12:32]  The Supreme Court will decide.
[01:12:33]  I'm very confident they'll decide Trump can remain on the ballot, and then that will resolve that issue.
[01:12:37]  The question I have, I have to have two questions quickly.
[01:12:39]  One is, why didn't anybody like Jack Smith charge Trump with engaging in an insurrection?
[01:12:45]  If Trump was engaged in an insurrection or inciting an insurrection, you would hope, I would think, that he would be charged with that.
[01:12:51]  I don't think he was, so I'm happy he wasn't.
[01:12:53]  But for those of you who think he was, why wasn't he charged with it?
[01:12:56]  And then the second one is, I just want to know, given that the 2020 riots did have a lot of people in there who were nonviolent and were there not for insurrectionary reasons, but had a lot of people who were anarchist and insurrectionist and who engaged in a lot of violence, a lot more than was done on January 6th.
[01:13:11]  Do you also think that the riots of 2020 constituted an insurrection?
[01:13:17]  I'm just trying to understand to get a sense for what your definition of insurrection is.
[01:13:20]  Glenn, do you think that the 1992 riots?
[01:13:24]  I just want to ask two questions.
[01:13:25]  Can you just answer that?
[01:13:27]  I'll give you a really quick answer for these for that.
[01:13:29]  I can give answers too.
[01:13:30]  I don't think that Black Lives Matter was an insurrection.
[01:13:34]  I do think 1992 riots in L.A. was an insurrection.
[01:13:38]  George Herbert Walter Bush.
[01:13:42]  That made it not an insurrection.
[01:13:43]  What did it lack?
[01:13:44]  So it was a protest, and the violence was when the police clashed with the protesters.
[01:13:51]  The violence was not against the government in order to stop the government from doing something.
[01:13:57]  There weren't anti-anarchist groups there that explicitly say they were using violence to overthrow the government.
[01:14:02]  That didn't happen.
[01:14:03]  They were firebombing federal courthouses.
[01:14:06]  God, that's not true.
[01:14:09]  The bombs on the courthouses, there's nobody.
[01:14:11]  It was at nighttime.
[01:14:12]  There's nobody in there.
[01:14:13]  They were not obstructing the broken.
[01:14:15]  The firefighters got excited.
[01:14:16]  Arson's a serious thing.
[01:14:18]  They were not there to obstruct an official proceeding of a government.
[01:14:22]  I just burned down a courthouse.
[01:14:23]  That's right.
[01:14:24]  I want to ask Glenn.
[01:14:25]  I want to ask Glenn, do you think 1992 was an insurrection?
[01:14:30]  Notice you didn't answer Glenn's question.
[01:14:32]  I just didn't answer questions.
[01:14:36]  Yeah, but no, no.
[01:14:38]  Alex, I did answer it.
[01:14:40]  I just specifically answered it.
[01:14:43]  Glenn, please, yeah.
[01:14:44]  You answered it.
[01:14:45]  But I mean, I think the 1982 riots, I think I recall at the time thinking the insurrectionary, the insurrection act was inappropriately invoked.
[01:14:53]  I'd have to go back and really study the 1992 riots to see the extent of the violence.
[01:14:57]  But I do think that you're asking that indicates why the 2020 riots are way closer to an insurrection than anything happened after the 2020 election.
[01:15:06]  And the reason you're afraid to say that it is an insurrection is purely for ideological and partisan ends because liberals were engaged in an insurrection.
[01:15:15]  You actually think this.
[01:15:17]  There's riots every last every week in America.
[01:15:21]  So Democrats were saying the Black Lives Matter riots were good and bailing about it.
[01:15:25]  You know what?
[01:15:26]  Here's something.
[01:15:26]  Here's something about this.
[01:15:27]  The Democrats were saying be violent everywhere.
[01:15:30]  Everybody, get the clubs, get it.
[01:15:32]  Take the club and get it.
[01:15:33]  Get it, get it, get it.
[01:15:34]  When we talk about an insurrection, when we talk about an insurrection, I got your ass.
[01:15:39]  I want to let Sex.
[01:15:41]  When we're talking about an insurrection, okay, I think all three of us here would agree that if there was a congressional session or a state legislative session and people were voting on it and BLM rioters went up and they tried to firebomb the house to stop the vote, I think all of us would agree.
[01:15:55]  That's an insurrection.
[01:15:55]  All Republican guys.
[01:15:58]  Congratulations to you guys.
[01:15:59]  Oh, my God.
[01:16:00]  Oh, my God.
[01:16:01]  I want to say capitals.
[01:16:02]  That's crazy.
[01:16:02]  You actually have to.
[01:16:03]  I understand way more violent stuff in capitals than Trump.
[01:16:05]  I understand.
[01:16:06]  So speculators were destroying houses in Hawaii.
[01:16:08]  Okay.
[01:16:08]  You keep bringing back the amount of violence.
[01:16:10]  The amount of violence isn't relevant.
[01:16:12]  All of us here agree that obviously over the entire course of the capital, it's crazy.
[01:16:16]  The Democrats endorse them storming as well.
[01:16:19]  Over the course of the BLM riots, there was lots of violence.
[01:16:22]  I think everybody on this side of the table is okay with charging.
[01:16:26]  Everybody here is okay with charging and convicting anybody that was guilty of a violent act.
[01:16:30]  However, violence, no matter how much, does not make an insurrection.
[01:16:34]  It's the obstruction or rebellion against the United States for the Jack Smith obstruction charge, obstructing an official process like certifying the vote.
[01:16:42]  We're going to go to Darren.
[01:16:43]  We're going to go to Darren now.
[01:16:44]  Darren, a question.
[01:16:46]  Let me ask this.
[01:16:47]  So, first of all, it wasn't just violence.
[01:16:50]  There are aspects of the BLM uprisings that involved, at one point, Trump was forced to go into a secure bunker in the White House.
[01:16:59]  They broke through the Treasury.
[01:17:03]  He called it the National Guard then.
[01:17:07]  I have a question about the 14th Amendment for Destiny Renewing.
[01:17:10]  So let's assume that it doesn't require a conviction.
[01:17:14]  In your view, who is most appropriate to make that determination?
[01:17:20]  The real answer is it's hard to tell personally.
[01:17:25]  Personally, I don't like the way the 14th Amendment, Section 3 is written.
[01:17:28]  I've got a lot of friends who will hate me for saying that.
[01:17:30]  And I think that the Supreme Court probably will rule against it.
[01:17:32]  Because the problem with the 14th Amendment is the self-executing part of it.
[01:17:35]  Means basically anybody involved in that balloting process of putting him on the ballot could make that determination.
[01:17:40]  So you basically agree it has to go up to the Supreme Court and be decided before he can be justly removed from that.
[01:17:47]  I'm going to say this.
[01:17:47]  Declaration of Independence.
[01:17:49]  You want to talk about insurrection.
[01:17:51]  I want to fix this peacefully.
[01:17:53]  But I have a right, not from the Declaration of Independence.
[01:17:55]  It already points out what's there to abolish a government when the majority of us agree we're done with it.
[01:18:00]  So, and you got all these movies about civil war the Democrats are putting out and Obama's putting out.
[01:18:05]  You guys better hope that doesn't happen.
[01:18:06]  We're trying to fix this peacefully.
[01:18:08]  But this is a load of crap to claim that Republicans and conservatives are this super viral, evil, white supremac terror group.
[01:18:15]  They're planning crap.
[01:18:16]  No one's buying that.
[01:18:17]  And conservatives and populists and America Firsters see how we're being set up.
[01:18:23]  They say set up, but Donald Trump is the one setting you up.
[01:18:25]  Well, this is my question.
[01:18:26]  Trump said be peaceful and go to the Capitol.
[01:18:28]  Trump created.
[01:18:28]  We have a 10-day Senate investigation.
[01:18:30]  I was there.
[01:18:31]  Did Trump have his people?
[01:18:32]  Did Trump have it?
[01:18:33]  There's a million hours of footage.
[01:18:35]  Trump had seven different states create seven false sets of electors that perjured themselves.
[01:18:41]  I know they're duly elected.
[01:18:42]  I know this.
[01:18:42]  And they shipped all of those.
[01:18:45]  When I tried to have people that I know put clips of me saying don't go in the Capitol, they would take them down.
[01:18:50]  Or we show clips of people pulling out their Antifa gear, putting on Trump gear, and all this.
[01:18:55]  Where's the video footage of all the Antifa gear?
[01:18:57]  Yeah.
[01:18:57]  20,000 people have tonight.
[01:19:00]  Oh, everybody.
[01:19:00]  How many antifa figures?
[01:19:01]  Where's the photo?
[01:19:01]  That's going to be on Antifigear.
[01:19:03]  Got you.
[01:19:04]  How many Antifa out there?
[01:19:06]  Why didn't it die?
[01:19:06]  That's where the glasses go.
[01:19:07]  Bye.
[01:19:08]  I get the cigar.
[01:19:10]  You guys are talking pretty candidly about it.
[01:19:14]  Why didn't Trump call in the National Guard as soon as the riot started if Antifa was here?
[01:19:17]  He asked for 10,000 National Guard a month before.
[01:19:19]  No, we didn't.
[01:19:19]  He wasn't going to be able to do it.
[01:19:20]  He's going to resign.
[01:19:21]  Why didn't he call him in that night?
[01:19:22]  Why didn't he call him in?
[01:19:23]  Look, there's Antifa.
[01:19:23]  Call in the National Guard.
[01:19:24]  He would have ended it in 20 minutes.
[01:19:25]  So that's another myth that he had the National Guard on standby.
[01:19:29]  Cash Patel said that.
[01:19:30]  No, he asked for it.
[01:19:32]  Let me finish.
[01:19:32]  Cash Patel said that Trump asked for it.
[01:19:35]  That's the source of that.
[01:19:36]  Cash Patel and Donald Trump, after the fact, claim that they had the National Guard on standby.
[01:19:43]  Neither of them testified to that under oath.
[01:19:46]  Do you know who did?
[01:19:47]  The Secretary of State, Chris Department of Defense, Secretary of Defense, Christopher Miller, testified under Germany.
[01:19:56]  Trump didn't have it on standby.
[01:19:57]  He asked for it and was refused by Millie.
[01:19:59]  I could pull Washington Post up.
[01:20:00]  He was refused.
[01:20:01]  No, Millie specifically said that's not true.
[01:20:03]  Under oath.
[01:20:04]  Oh, Millie.
[01:20:04]  Was that in between his phone calls as you see payment?
[01:20:06]  The Secretary of Defense, the man who he would have to call to call in the National Guard, the Secretary of Defense specifically said under oath that Trump never did that.
[01:20:18]  Under oath.
[01:20:18]  Did Trump or Death?
[01:20:19]  Under oath?
[01:20:20]  Tell people two men can have a baby.
[01:20:21]  Can two men have a baby?
[01:20:22]  So why do you have a baby?
[01:20:24]  I thought this was January 6th.
[01:20:26]  No, this up.
[01:20:26]  Stop.
[01:20:26]  Now they're out of date.
[01:20:29]  Alex, let me ask you a question.
[01:20:31]  You're criticizing me for quoting somebody under oath.
[01:20:34]  What is your source?
[01:20:35]  If I have, I'm quoting somebody that said something under the penalty of perjury.
[01:20:40]  Your source is you just know it, that Donald Trump said it to the public.
[01:20:44]  Oh, no, we're live on air here, just like when this guy said that, oh, you know, you're, you know, you're claiming this was done.
[01:20:52]  You don't have proof.
[01:20:53]  Those clips are all there.
[01:20:54]  Everyone's going to pull those up.
[01:20:55]  They're going to see them.
[01:20:56]  So there's clips of Donald Trump calling in the National Guard?
[01:20:59]  No, no, I'll come to the last point.
[01:21:00]  You didn't answer my question.
[01:21:01]  No, I remember the article.
[01:21:02]  You just answered my question.
[01:21:03]  You're not listening.
[01:21:04]  You want my answer?
[01:21:05]  Yeah, I do.
[01:21:06]  When Trump got firebombed and the White House got attacked, he called for the National Guard and Millie said, I'll resign if he doesn't.
[01:21:12]  He then asked the head jurisdiction, it was actually General Flynn's brother, for 10,000 troops and was in the news.
[01:21:22]  I don't have a computer in front of me.
[01:21:23]  On January 6th, January 19th.
[01:21:25]  No, no, he asked two weeks before that they won.
[01:21:27]  It wasn't in the news.
[01:21:28]  Okay, look, boom, gotcha.
[01:21:30]  Everybody get it.
[01:21:31]  Show it.
[01:21:32]  I'm on air right now.
[01:21:33]  He requested.
[01:21:34]  I don't have a computer.
[01:21:35]  Hold on, hold on, hold on.
[01:21:36]  Tell me what you're telling me.
[01:21:37]  You're just hoping.
[01:21:38]  Listen, they're going to get you.
[01:21:39]  Tell me what you're telling me that he requested 10,000 troops.
[01:21:42]  Watch X. That's what you're telling me.
[01:21:43]  Listen to me carefully.
[01:21:44]  Watch X tomorrow.
[01:21:45]  Okay.
[01:21:46]  And it's going to be making this claim.
[01:21:49]  And it'll be you, and it'll be all the news articles where Millie says he'll resign if Trump switched National Guard, and then they did it again.
[01:21:56]  And then General Flynn's brother.
[01:21:57]  I'm sorry for January 5th.
[01:21:58]  That was the best.
[01:22:00]  That's where it begins.
[01:22:01]  And he asked again.
[01:22:03]  And they also, yeah, it's all there.
[01:22:05]  Okay, but you're making the claim that Trump had.
[01:22:09]  No, you say show it.
[01:22:10]  I'm here.
[01:22:12]  Why would Trump care if Millie would resign after all the deep state?
[01:22:15]  If they're all part of the swamp, why wouldn't he just do it anyway?
[01:22:17]  That's what's right.
[01:22:18]  Trump is the ultimate authority of heading the National Guard.
[01:22:20]  You're not going to answer that question.
[01:22:21]  What's going to happen, Doogity?
[01:22:24]  What's going to happen is they're all going to get it.
[01:22:27]  And that's the whole, they're all going to show it.
[01:22:30]  And then we'll see.
[01:22:31]  Yeah, this is making me think about media manipulation in general and how sometimes you see things, sometimes you don't.
[01:22:37]  Sometimes things are real, sometimes they're not.
[01:22:39]  And it leads me to my next question, general for everybody.
[01:22:41]  And by the way, all six of you are doing phenomenally, especially you, Glenn, killing it from Brazil, my man.
[01:22:47]  Do you guys think this election was stolen?
[01:22:50]  100%.
[01:22:52]  Absolutely not.
[01:22:53]  And it's my right to say that, but then, oh, covering up the windows with signs and then all these trucks pulling in and then the graph where Trump's above and it perfectly shoots up and then wins.
[01:23:03]  Just define stolen.
[01:23:04]  Define that for me before we answer the question.
[01:23:06]  Well, I mean, as Professor Epstein and others have said, they do it way before suppressing the Hunter Biden laptop, giving you 96% Google Democrat links.

=== Election Rigging Allegations (15:40) ===

[01:23:17]  I mean, it's all the stealing's done before in the algorithm and the censorship of the control.
[01:23:22]  I remember five years ago when I was being deplatformed, they were denying I was being deplatformed and saying there was no censorship.
[01:23:29]  Now we know from the weaponization hearings that all this is going on, and now they're telling us you can't vote for him because he said we won't let you vote for him.
[01:23:38]  Why is it if the election was being stolen, why did every single person that Donald Trump trusted to investigate come back and say there was no evidence?
[01:23:45]  It wasn't every single reason.
[01:23:47]  It was not a whole bunch of sluts.
[01:23:49]  Most of his legal counsel said that the few that he did a point with were crazy.
[01:23:53]  You just went in two seconds from everyone to most.
[01:23:56]  I said everybody, you got him trusted.
[01:23:58]  Show up.
[01:23:59]  I said that everything that every single person that Donald Trump trusted to investigate, meaning the vice president, the Department of Justice, the cybersecurity division of the Department of Homeland Security, all of those White House counsel, every yeah, I know how it works.
[01:24:13]  I know you're farming TikTok clips, okay?
[01:24:15]  That's what we're doing right now.
[01:24:16]  But the reality is, is almost every single person that he asked all of them to investigate.
[01:24:20]  Wait, two minutes ago, he said all of them.
[01:24:23]  He didn't ask Sidney Powell to go and investigate.
[01:24:26]  She brought cockamini schemes to him.
[01:24:27]  And he said, oh, maybe these are okay.
[01:24:29]  Which, by the way, he also said, you just said all wouldn't say there was fraud.
[01:24:35]  I said, oh, get the full quote.
[01:24:37]  Kind of like you're missing the rest of the 14th Amendment there.
[01:24:38]  Get everything I'm saying.
[01:24:39]  I know that hurts.
[01:24:40]  I know the context hurts people like you.
[01:24:42]  You live and you breathe 10 seconds.
[01:24:45]  Anything longer than that destroys everything you're trying to claim.
[01:24:47]  No, you just know.
[01:24:47]  No, no, no.
[01:24:48]  They got you again.
[01:24:49]  You just said all his lawyers told him he lost, and we're going to show you the majority saying he won.
[01:24:56]  Gotcha.
[01:24:56]  Alex, gotcha.
[01:24:58]  Tell us specifically.
[01:24:59]  Tell us specifically which lawyers said he besides Eastman, Powell, and Juliana.
[01:25:04]  And who is on his team complaining widespread election flaw?
[01:25:08]  Look, we're live on air.
[01:25:10]  I know we're live on air.
[01:25:11]  All these people are convicted and pleaded guilty and said, folks, get it.
[01:25:15]  Let's ask.
[01:25:16]  I want to ask Glenn, what do you think, man?
[01:25:18]  Glenn, do you think that this thing was stolen?
[01:25:20]  I think the election was rigged.
[01:25:23]  I'm not somebody who thinks the election, that there's evidence conclusive that the election was stolen.
[01:25:27]  I do think we should be a lot more attentive to when election processes get changed out of the blue.
[01:25:33]  Like, oh, because there's COVID, we're going to have a ton of new conventions for how we do mail-in ballots.
[01:25:39]  I think there's a lot of potential for fraud there.
[01:25:41]  I don't think there's evidence that I've seen at least that's conclusive that the 2020 election was stolen.
[01:25:45]  I do think, though, it was rigged in all sorts of ways from internet censorship to all kinds of interference on the part of the U.S. security state lying and saying that a very incriminating story about Joe Biden was the byproduct of Russian disinformation when it absolutely was not.
[01:26:01]  Facebook and Twitter censoring that story right before the election.
[01:26:04]  These are all examples of corrupting rigging by institutions of authority on the question of whether it's evidence that it was stolen.
[01:26:12]  Well, how would you define the difference between rigging it and stealing it?
[01:26:16]  Rigging it is when institutions of authority cheat or act corruptly in order to manipulate public opinion to prevent stories from getting to them, like those news stories about Joe Biden and the way that he exploited his family connections in Ukraine and China to profit for his family and lying about it and saying that it's Russian disinformation, censoring the internet to prevent stories from getting to the public, having the security state, the CIA, and the FBI that's supposed to have no role in our politics, being the ones to cook up those fabrications.
[01:26:43]  That's all examples of rigging and manipulating our democracy the way that we accuse Russia of doing.
[01:26:47]  The U.S. security state, the corporate media, Twitter, and Facebook did that way, way worse.
[01:26:52]  Stealing the election is dumping ballots that were legitimately cast or fabricating ballots in favor of one candidate or the other that actually weren't cast, manipulating the machines in order to have the loser be the winner.
[01:27:04]  That's what I would distinguish between rigging and stealing.
[01:27:08]  Do you think that Donald Trump asking Jeffrey Clark to go and threaten the DOJ that if they don't sign on to a false letter, trying to bully states into claiming there was mass election fraud by claiming the DOJ had actually punched them when they had it?
[01:27:20]  That was testified to under oath.
[01:27:22]  Oh, God, on a road.
[01:27:23]  Do you think that would be considered an act of corruption?
[01:27:26]  The whole point is, if Trump legitimately believed that the election was stolen as Democrats believed in 2000, 2004, 2016 is no, that's not right.
[01:27:34]  It's not answering the question.
[01:27:36]  Then I'm answering the question.
[01:27:38]  I just can't do it in seven seconds.
[01:27:40]  If Trump believed genuinely that the election was stolen, then all of those steps that he undertook to try and present the Congress the way to alleviate the stolen election, to have courts reverse the stolen election, to have Mike Pence exercise what he thought was his constitutional authority might have been wrongful, but they weren't illegal and they most definitely weren't a coup.
[01:27:58]  If he thought that the election was stolen, he was allowed to tell the DOJ that they needed to sign on to a false letter claiming they'd found election fraud.
[01:28:06]  Otherwise, he would replace Rosen with Clark.
[01:28:08]  That was something he was allowed to do.
[01:28:09]  It's a false letter.
[01:28:10]  All this stuff's crap.
[01:28:11]  The DOJ hadn't found anything.
[01:28:12]  So the DOJ attesting that they had found something false.
[01:28:15]  That's right.
[01:28:16]  I know in this world we need evidence, Alex.
[01:28:18]  I'm sorry.
[01:28:18]  Oh, evidence.
[01:28:19]  I know.
[01:28:20]  Evidence for evidence.
[01:28:21]  Yeah.
[01:28:22]  So two men have a baby.
[01:28:24]  Isn't there a sitcom called Two Men of a Baby?
[01:28:26]  Yeah.
[01:28:26]  That's the whole point.
[01:28:27]  Three men.
[01:28:28]  It's a great movie.
[01:28:28]  Oh, shut up.
[01:28:29]  Sorry, my bad.
[01:28:29]  No, but I mean, I'm sitting here like, guys, they said it was worse than Pearl Harbor in 9-11.
[01:28:34]  Like Glenn says, wow, you're fighting the demons up here.
[01:28:37]  None of us are saying that.
[01:28:38]  Alex, you pointed out, oh, the votes, they went up way at night.
[01:28:44]  They went up way high.
[01:28:46]  Trump was winning, and then all of a sudden, Biden pulled ahead at like 1 a.m.
[01:28:51]  Red Mirage.
[01:28:52]  Yeah.
[01:28:52]  But do you understand that the media basically told the American public that this is what happens basically every election?
[01:29:01]  Yeah, they pre-programmed it at Red Mirage.
[01:29:02]  No.
[01:29:03]  Do you understand?
[01:29:03]  No, it does happen every election.
[01:29:04]  Do you understand what actually, why that happened?
[01:29:07]  No, I'm not smart enough to understand.
[01:29:09]  The Trump.
[01:29:10]  And they shut down the polling places.
[01:29:12]  You got trucks pulled in.
[01:29:13]  Then they blocked the windows out and ran the same ballots over and over again.
[01:29:17]  Let me explain it to you.
[01:29:18]  Donald Trump.
[01:29:19]  Donald Trump, Donald Trump, for months before the election, he kept saying mail-in ballots are rigged.
[01:29:26]  Don't vote by mail.
[01:29:28]  So do you think that Republicans are going to vote by mail if Trump says not to?
[01:29:34]  So Republicans.
[01:29:35]  That's checking in the egg.
[01:29:36]  Let me finish.
[01:29:37]  Let me finish, and then you can.
[01:29:40]  Republicans didn't vote by mail because Trump said, I don't, it's not safe.
[01:29:45]  Democrats voted by mail.
[01:29:47]  Mail-in votes were counted at the tail end of the vote count, as they always are.
[01:29:54]  So what happens?
[01:29:55]  So Trump pulls ahead early in the night, just like everybody said was going to happen if you were paying attention.
[01:30:01]  They start counting the mail-in votes.
[01:30:03]  Biden's moving up.
[01:30:05]  They start counting more mail-in votes in these states that are in the big cities, which are primarily Democrats.
[01:30:12]  What happens?
[01:30:12]  Biden pulls way ahead in the big cities, just like everybody that was paying attention to.
[01:30:17]  Can I talk about it?
[01:30:18]  Can I talk?
[01:30:18]  You don't have no.
[01:30:19]  Can I talk?
[01:30:19]  That's why they had to all over the block the windows out, kick everybody out, claim Waterman's broke.
[01:30:26]  Let me talk.
[01:30:26]  Let me talk.
[01:30:27]  And then magically on the surveillance cameras, just keep loading machines over and over again.
[01:30:31]  But let's, you're right.
[01:30:34]  Let's stop.
[01:30:35]  You're right.
[01:30:35]  No, no, I agree with you.
[01:30:37]  Trump actually lost.
[01:30:39]  So why are you so scared to let him run again?
[01:30:42]  I'm not scared to let him run.
[01:30:44]  So you support him being on the ballot?
[01:30:45]  I support whatever the Supreme Court says because I think they should define what insurrection is.
[01:30:50]  I think that's fair.
[01:30:52]  I'm not saying I'm on either side.
[01:30:54]  But let's go back to the pulling out votes or tabulating votes multiple times.
[01:30:59]  Did you actually watch more than the 14-second clip that Giuliani put out there where they purportedly pulled out ballots from under the table?
[01:31:09]  Let me ask you a question.
[01:31:10]  No, no, no, no.
[01:31:11]  Why in Michigan and Georgia did they block the windows?
[01:31:14]  No, no, no, no.
[01:31:15]  No, no, no.
[01:31:16]  Why?
[01:31:17]  I don't know why.
[01:31:18]  Ask them.
[01:31:18]  Why did they say a waterman broke?
[01:31:20]  Later a minute it didn't.
[01:31:21]  These all went to court.
[01:31:23]  All these were all.
[01:31:25]  Let me stop you.
[01:31:26]  Let me stop you.
[01:31:26]  Because you guys, hold on, stop.
[01:31:27]  No, all of them went cool.
[01:31:28]  Can I say one thing?
[01:31:29]  I'll give you the floor.
[01:31:30]  I'll give you the floor.
[01:31:31]  Let me say one thing.
[01:31:32]  Go ahead.
[01:31:32]  Go ahead.
[01:31:35]  I was found guilty by two judges in Texas and Connecticut, and then they had a jury trial on how much damage is.
[01:31:41]  Trump, they changed the law, has a judge who said at the beginning of the real estate hearing he's guilty.
[01:31:47]  And then Letitia James said in the video, we've already found him guilty.
[01:31:50]  She was so dumb she said it.
[01:31:51]  We already found him guilty.
[01:31:52]  He's guilty.
[01:31:53]  And then Trump doesn't get a jury trial in New York.
[01:31:56]  So you're pointing to the judiciary and the corrupt lawyers that have run this country down the ground.
[01:32:04]  Wasn't that because his lawyer didn't check the jury trial?
[01:32:06]  Here's the thing.
[01:32:07]  Let me say this right now.
[01:32:08]  January 6th, what an insurrection.
[01:32:11]  Also, the videos that you're referring to, the running the votes multiple times.
[01:32:16]  We're talking about one Democrats who violate the money.
[01:32:19]  We talked about it before.
[01:32:20]  But let me tell you, you guys keep looking for one.
[01:32:23]  Once you guys start the fight and launch martial law, you're going to actually get the real thing, and then you'll know what it's going to happen.
[01:32:30]  How long have you been calling for martial law?
[01:32:32]  How many decades now?
[01:32:33]  Also, all the examples you're bringing up have to do.
[01:32:36]  Oh, my God.
[01:32:36]  And they didn't last forever like you guys couldn't.
[01:32:38]  Because we shut your ass down.
[01:32:39]  No, you need to shut down everyone.
[01:32:41]  No, the Supreme Court ruled it up.
[01:32:43]  Middle won the election and it stopped.
[01:32:46]  Middle won the election and it stopped, so you shut them down.
[01:32:49]  Are you part of Biden then?
[01:32:50]  Let me ask you a question.
[01:32:51]  Is it mad off the title?
[01:32:54]  Why are they going to shut off the diversity?
[01:32:56]  Is Rachel Matt alright?
[01:32:57]  What are you talking about?
[01:32:58]  He brought it up.
[01:33:00]  Is Biden right that you take the shot?
[01:33:02]  You're protected.
[01:33:02]  Is that true?
[01:33:03]  I think what Biden did...
[01:33:04]  I think what Biden did was...
[01:33:06]  Lies!
[01:33:06]  Here's what Biden did for the shot, okay?
[01:33:07]  What happened was Rappensberger and everybody in Georgia looked over all the tapes that you're claiming about, but the ballot's being ran three times.
[01:33:13]  Not only was that information false, Trump was told that it was false.
[01:33:16]  Trump knew that it was false.
[01:33:17]  Trump repeated it over and over again, including in a call to Raffensburger.
[01:33:20]  And finally, Giuliani has come out saying that it was false, but it was his First Amendment right to lie about it when Ruby Freeman took him to court for defamation because he lied about something you could clearly see on video evidence.
[01:33:30]  Okay, well, this is a question, Darren.
[01:33:32]  Firstly, do you think, if you want to talk about it, if you think the election was rigged or stolen, but also is it protected speech to question an election and claim that it was stolen?
[01:33:42]  Of course it is.
[01:33:42]  That's a great question.
[01:33:44]  I subscribe to the sort of rigged versus stolen distinction, and I'm more in the rigged category.
[01:33:50]  And I think that's the more meaningful type of interference is the censorship, is all of the other tools that have been deployed in order to rig the election.
[01:34:01]  I think that's more significant than the sort of more hyperbolic claims regarding hacking the machines and or so forth.
[01:34:14]  The claim that Trump was making these kinds of things.
[01:34:17]  So then you agree that Trump was wrong when he said it was a stolen election.
[01:34:22]  Well, it depends what specific claim he's using.
[01:34:25]  It's a definitional one.
[01:34:26]  Let's say when Trump kept pushing that Dominion, that Dominion was switching votes and it cost him Georgia.
[01:34:31]  That I don't believe in the Dominion stuff.
[01:34:33]  Yeah, I don't either.
[01:34:35]  It was a lot.
[01:34:35]  Trump was lying about it.
[01:34:36]  No, no, no.
[01:34:38]  He was lying.
[01:34:39]  But see, we're intellectually honest here.
[01:34:40]  The point is, is that the State Department runs around the world looking at everybody else's elections.
[01:34:46]  And the number one thing you get sanctions for is taking a candidate off the ballot.
[01:34:49]  And that's what the Democrats are doing right now.
[01:34:51]  And America sees that.
[01:34:52]  The Democrats are not doing it.
[01:34:53]  That's going to go to the courts.
[01:34:54]  Republicans actually filed.
[01:34:56]  The Democrats are not going to be available.
[01:34:58]  It's not the Democrats Secretary of the United States.
[01:35:00]  The Supreme Court in Maine.
[01:35:02]  You just said the Democrats aren't doing it.
[01:35:04]  Alex, in Colorado.
[01:35:05]  Alex, in Colorado.
[01:35:06]  God damn that.
[01:35:07]  Alex, in Colorado, who filed a suit?
[01:35:10]  Six people.
[01:35:11]  How many of them were Democrats?
[01:35:13]  No, no.
[01:35:14]  How many were Democrats out of this?
[01:35:16]  How many?
[01:35:16]  I know, Liz.
[01:35:17]  How many were Republicans who filed the suit?
[01:35:20]  Five of the six people that filed a suit in Colorado to get Trump off the ballot were Republicans.
[01:35:26]  So stop saying Democrats.
[01:35:28]  Glenn Klesrier.
[01:35:29]  Democrats don't want Trump off the ballot.
[01:35:31]  Glenn's actually responding.
[01:35:32]  Horseshit.
[01:35:34]  That's not what happened.
[01:35:35]  What happened is the only people who have standing in Colorado to bring a suit are people who can vote in the Republican primaries, which means either Republican voters or independent voters.
[01:35:44]  Although the suit was brought in their name, the lawsuit was spearheaded and was paid for and was organized by a Democratic Party-aligned group called Crew that boasted of this and took credit for it.
[01:35:55]  So yes, the Glenn startovers.
[01:35:58]  Yeah, Glenn.
[01:35:59]  had some audio feedback, Glenn, if you can hear us.
[01:36:02]  We're going to request the...
[01:36:04]  We had some buzzing, Glenn, I want to make sure that everything you said is clearly heard.
[01:36:09]  So we're going to fix that and then get back to you.
[01:36:11]  Let's go back.
[01:36:11]  Glenn, go ahead and talk again.
[01:36:12]  Let's try it out.
[01:36:14]  Yeah.
[01:36:14]  Anyway, I don't know how much of that you heard, but what I was saying was that in Colorado, in order to have standing competition.
[01:36:20]  Hey, Glenn, stay there.
[01:36:20]  We're going to have to reconnect with you.
[01:36:22]  I want to hear this, but we can't.
[01:36:23]  So I can say what he's saying.
[01:36:25]  He's saying that it was brought by a Democratic institution, but they needed Republicans.
[01:36:30]  Not just a Democrat institution.
[01:36:31]  It's a notorious lawfare outfit.
[01:36:34]  Right.
[01:36:35]  But how many Democratic states said, okay, he can stay on the ballot.
[01:36:40]  So they don't just say like every Democrat just once you throw Trump off the ballot.
[01:36:44]  You're right.
[01:36:44]  The Democrats don't want him off the ballot.
[01:36:46]  If you were to ask me, I would say let the voters decide.
[01:36:50]  I think some candidates would have a better shot than Trump to beat Biden.
[01:36:53]  I honestly do.
[01:36:54]  Well, who?
[01:36:55]  I think Nikki Haley, if she, there's no way she would get the nomination.
[01:36:59]  World War III bird balloon.
[01:37:01]  I think she would defeat Biden.
[01:37:02]  I really do.
[01:37:03]  We actually have a tweet from Vivek Ramaswamy claiming that the, what did he call it?
[01:37:09]  He called it happy entrapment day.
[01:37:11]  Talking about January 6th.
[01:37:12]  Do you guys think that it was an entrapment?
[01:37:14]  100%.
[01:37:15]  100%.
[01:37:15]  Donald Trump entrapped all those poor people to be there.
[01:37:17]  That's true.
[01:37:20]  They probably thought he'd bail them out.
[01:37:21]  That's why he's not going to be able to do that.
[01:37:25]  We want a 10-day investigation.
[01:37:26]  That's why he said be peaceful.
[01:37:28]  Because Trump was always calling for someone.
[01:37:29]  He doesn't call for the new fight like hell.
[01:37:31]  And Giuliani says, fight like Helving's for our freedom and our vote in our country.
[01:37:35]  Okay, and people can say things that they don't mean in order to say that.
[01:37:39]  When you go to a high school football game at Pepperelli and they go, and then the cheerleaders go, fight, fight, fight, fight.
[01:37:45]  Trial by combat, that doesn't mean anything either.
[01:37:48]  That's a legal term.
[01:37:49]  I think the thing that's most instructive.
[01:37:51]  The things that's most instructive to see what Donald Trump wanted to happen that day is that when he sat down and he watched the violence unfolding on TV, when he saw the people fighting with cops, when he saw, when he got notification that Ashley Babbitt had been shot, Donald Trump did not take steps to stop the violence that day.
[01:38:05]  Instead, him and Giuliani made phone calls to senators and congressmen trying to get them to stall the vote.
[01:38:10]  What do you guys think ethically about people in politics telling people to go fight?
[01:38:16]  Do you find it to be misleading?
[01:38:18]  Look, we're not a neutered population.
[01:38:20]  I mean, I have Democrats during the impeachment for this.
[01:38:24]  They shut it down when finally Trump put a five-minute video on of Democrats saying attack him at grocery stores, attack him at gas stations, attack.

=== Illegal Aliens & The Vote (06:03) ===

[01:38:32]  We need civil insurrection.
[01:38:34]  That's why they think about the term battleground state.
[01:38:38]  Yeah.
[01:38:38]  You know, it's the problem.
[01:38:40]  It's not political rhetoric.
[01:38:42]  It's a context.
[01:38:43]  Yeah, it's not.
[01:38:44]  Yeah, go ahead.
[01:38:44]  Go ahead.
[01:38:45]  Nobody is upset because Donald Trump said fight like hell.
[01:38:48]  People are upset because for months or years, really, even in 2016, Donald Trump has consistently attacked and undermined the electoral process with absolutely no good reason.
[01:38:57]  No, it's the Democrats.
[01:38:58]  No foundation.
[01:38:58]  He's not a Russian agent.
[01:38:59]  And then Democrats had said he's a Russian agent.
[01:39:03]  And sick the deep state on him for the four years of his administration.
[01:39:07]  Every single point that he made, all of his own people were part of it.
[01:39:10]  Any evidence Trump's a Russian agent?
[01:39:12]  No, but that's why he wasn't convicted or charged of any crime for it.
[01:39:15]  They were the ones saying that the American voters were charged with criminals.
[01:39:19]  Was he charged with the crime?
[01:39:20]  Alex, was he charged with a crime for that?
[01:39:22]  Hillary is charged with the crime.
[01:39:22]  Was he charged with a crime for that?
[01:39:24]  He tried.
[01:39:24]  Hillary is a crime.
[01:39:25]  They tried.
[01:39:25]  Wait, but Hillary Rates.
[01:39:26]  Why didn't they just charge him falsely?
[01:39:27]  They haven't charged insurrection.
[01:39:28]  Wait, wait, wait.
[01:39:29]  Why didn't Jackson join, but not for Trump?
[01:39:31]  He's not going to steal the election.
[01:39:32]  Why didn't he get initiated?
[01:39:34]  Is Hillary saying Trump's going to steal the election?
[01:39:36]  Why is Hillary saying Trump's going to steal the election?
[01:39:40]  Why wasn't Trump indicted?
[01:39:41]  Why is Hillary saying Trump's guys?
[01:39:43]  Why is Hillary saying Trump's going to be a good person?
[01:39:45]  I'm about to stand up, just so you know, and that would be good TV, but I'm not going to do it.
[01:39:50]  Well, he won't stop.
[01:39:51]  And I will dominate.
[01:39:51]  I can't even finish this statement.
[01:39:52]  What we need to do Guys, what we need to do.
[01:39:55]  No, I do answer a question.
[01:39:56]  Listen to me for a moment.
[01:39:57]  We are.
[01:39:58]  That we don't speak over each other.
[01:40:00]  What we do is we listen to each other, take turns.
[01:40:01]  It becomes way better.
[01:40:02]  Well, I've a question for you.
[01:40:03]  I agree.
[01:40:03]  Can I finish my saying?
[01:40:05]  Is it okay that Hillary is on TV this week three times I saw say Trump's going to steal the election?
[01:40:10]  Hillary is rent-free in your head right now.
[01:40:13]  The problem with Trump's speech.
[01:40:15]  The problem with Trump speeches.
[01:40:16]  Why can't Democrats say it, but Republicans can?
[01:40:18]  You keep trying to change the subject.
[01:40:20]  I'm not changing the subject.
[01:40:20]  Trump shouldn't be saying that.
[01:40:21]  I agree.
[01:40:22]  Hillary shouldn't be saying that.
[01:40:23]  Who is she?
[01:40:24]  She's a private citizen.
[01:40:25]  But I think you're allowed to say people are going to steal the election, whether you're right or wrong.
[01:40:28]  That's why Trump isn't being charged for it.
[01:40:30]  You said it yourself.
[01:40:30]  He's not being charged with incitement.
[01:40:32]  He's not being charged with insurrection.
[01:40:34]  But that has nothing to do with him saying a particular thing.
[01:40:37]  Did Joe Biden, did Joe Biden try to get the votes certified for Hillary Clinton?
[01:40:43]  Did Hillary Clinton try to force Joe Biden in 2016 to certify the electoral votes?
[01:40:49]  No, because the landslide was so big.
[01:40:53]  Biden had a pretty good landslide.
[01:40:54]  Wasn't Biden's landslide?
[01:40:55]  Wait, hold on.
[01:40:56]  What do you mean the landscape was so big?
[01:40:57]  Didn't Hillary win the popular vote?
[01:40:58]  Hillary won the popular vote.
[01:41:00]  Biden won by more than 100%.
[01:41:01]  No, no, no, the landslide.
[01:41:02]  The narrative collapsed right before our eyes.
[01:41:04]  So Trump didn't win the 2016 election.
[01:41:06]  What?
[01:41:06]  Trump didn't win.
[01:41:07]  No, which one?
[01:41:08]  2016.
[01:41:09]  He didn't win that popular vote.
[01:41:11]  With Russian help, right?
[01:41:12]  He didn't win the popular vote.
[01:41:12]  No, from the evidence I've seen, he had a huge landslide.
[01:41:15]  They tried to steal it with illegal alien voters, but it's still Trump.
[01:41:19]  We're not all privy to the election that exists in your house.
[01:41:21]  There's voices that talk to you.
[01:41:22]  Don't give us the same thing.
[01:41:24]  The last of us on earth don't get validated.
[01:41:27]  We got to go by wearing people in reality.
[01:41:29]  I'm so sorry.
[01:41:30]  People, no, you're wrong.
[01:41:32]  The states with the illegals are getting more.
[01:41:34]  California just got six more congressional.
[01:41:39]  We need you to come up and I'm tied down.
[01:41:43]  There's no invasion.
[01:41:44]  You guys.
[01:41:44]  No border.
[01:41:45]  You guys think that there was federal involvement here there was that what the extent of it was on January 6th?
[01:41:52]  I think that I think there are probably federal agents undercover.
[01:41:56]  Do I think that federal agents committed crimes and led people into the Capitol building?
[01:42:01]  Absolutely not.
[01:42:02]  And there hasn't been any case brought by any of these 700 convicts.
[01:42:08]  None of them brought that up in court.
[01:42:10]  Because they're being prosecuted in the District of Columbia.
[01:42:13]  Because there's no evidence of it.
[01:42:14]  No, I know the lawyers.
[01:42:17]  They won't let them put defenses on.
[01:42:18]  Let me tell you something.
[01:42:20]  They said Rams was a hero and did nothing wrong.
[01:42:23]  Now they finally indicted him because they know it's a weak spot in their operations.
[01:42:26]  They're only asking for six months.
[01:42:29]  Let me tell you, we're not playing clips for tip for chat here, but everybody's going to, I want everybody on X to get these statements and put all the clips of women putting onions in their eyes and the cops fake arresting people and high-firing and saying, I'm a federal agent.
[01:42:42]  I just helped run the attack.
[01:42:44]  They're going to string all these videos out.
[01:42:47]  So here's the thing.
[01:42:48]  Like Brian said, there's probably some informants on the ground.
[01:42:51]  I think one of the Proud Boys, one of the ladies in the Prowdboy, was an informant.
[01:42:55]  So she was on the ground.
[01:42:56]  She didn't go into the Capitol building, I don't believe.
[01:42:59]  The problem is with what Alex does is he pushes these conspiracy theories, these ideas that illegal aliens were voting.
[01:43:05]  There's no evidence of that.
[01:43:08]  I think the illegal alien voting thing is what's happening is they're coming in and then they're being counted in the census, which then adds more electoral votes to that.
[01:43:17]  That's fair.
[01:43:18]  That might be happening.
[01:43:19]  I haven't recently.
[01:43:19]  They're indictments all over the country.
[01:43:21]  There are indictments of illegals everywhere voting.
[01:43:23]  Got them again.
[01:43:24]  Hit them all.
[01:43:25]  They're not voting.
[01:43:26]  They're not conspiracy.
[01:43:27]  Like two people.
[01:43:28]  No, a bunch of cities have passed laws where illegal aliens can vote.
[01:43:32]  No, they haven't.
[01:43:32]  No.
[01:43:34]  Not in the federal election.
[01:43:36]  Oh, the illegals are voting in elections, though?
[01:43:37]  Not in the federal ones.
[01:43:38]  I know that some cities try to have them voting in local matters.
[01:43:41]  I don't know how many of those are successful.
[01:43:42]  Illegal aliens shouldn't be voting, okay?
[01:43:45]  But they're not.
[01:43:45]  They're not voting in federal elections.
[01:43:47]  I don't know why you would care about it.
[01:43:49]  Not even care.
[01:43:50]  I don't know why you would care about it.
[01:43:52]  There are going to be 100 million views of you guys.
[01:43:55]  X is going to eat you guys alive.
[01:43:57]  I can't wait for it.
[01:43:58]  I don't know why you care about illegals voting when you think Trump can just flip the whole election anyway.
[01:44:01]  Who cares?
[01:44:02]  You can just ask Pence to throw it all out.
[01:44:03]  I never said I thought Trump could flip the election.
[01:44:06]  Do you think it was okay when he asked Pence to do it?
[01:44:07]  I already told you five times.
[01:44:08]  I think that was a bad theory.
[01:44:10]  I didn't say it was a bad theory.
[01:44:11]  I don't think it was allowed.
[01:44:12]  You think it was an accepted coup?
[01:44:13]  You think you can ask the vice president to unilaterally determine the out of the election?
[01:44:18]  No.
[01:44:18]  Trump was exploring every option.
[01:44:20]  The main thing he wanted was a 10-day investigation.

=== FBI And The Capitol Peaceful Protest (15:41) ===

[01:44:22]  No, Trump wanted Pence to throw out the election to declare him the winner.
[01:44:25]  Imagine if Trump would say, like, I don't believe Joe Biden can be on the ballot.
[01:44:29]  Imagine if federal judges.
[01:44:31]  And that would go to court.
[01:44:32]  And the courts cannot be available to the people.
[01:44:33]  What would Republicans be doing right now?
[01:44:34]  Biden hasn't said that.
[01:44:36]  Biden hasn't said that.
[01:44:37]  Still, Republicans.
[01:44:38]  Trump transformed here and saying Obama should go on the ballot.
[01:44:42]  If Republicans were trying to take Joe Biden off the ballot right now, what would you say?
[01:44:46]  Let the Supreme Court decide.
[01:44:47]  Depends on how they're trying to do it.
[01:44:49]  Even this conservative Supreme Court, I'd say let them decide.
[01:44:54]  Yeah, we should.
[01:44:54]  But Darren, you've been Republicans have an impeachment committee right now.
[01:44:58]  What are you talking about?
[01:44:59]  What's on your brain right now?
[01:45:00]  Isn't that trying to remove you thinking?
[01:45:02]  Well, I can attempt to answer the question about federal involvement because my reporting or reporting at Revolver News is largely responsible for changing the national conversation in that direction.
[01:45:15]  And notice they first threatened to sue you.
[01:45:17]  I'm going to leave in a minute.
[01:45:18]  Take a piss.
[01:45:18]  They first threatened to sue you.
[01:45:20]  Now they've indicted Epps.
[01:45:21]  You've been vindicating.
[01:45:22]  Yeah, in fact, I have a video.
[01:45:24]  This is about Ray Epps.
[01:45:25]  You just mentioned, Alex.
[01:45:26]  It's clip number three, and it's about 25 seconds long.
[01:45:28]  We're going to play this.
[01:45:29]  And then, Darren, I want to hear what you're about to say.
[01:45:32]  Okay.
[01:45:33]  Tomorrow.
[01:45:34]  We need to go into the Capitol.
[01:45:37]  Hang on.
[01:45:37]  Into the Capitol.
[01:45:42]  Peacefully.
[01:45:44]  Then, then, then, this, then, then, then.
[01:45:48]  Tomorrow?
[01:45:49]  I don't even like to say it because I'll be arrested.
[01:45:51]  Well, let's not say it.
[01:45:53]  We need to go.
[01:45:54]  I'll say it.
[01:45:55]  All right.
[01:45:55]  We need to go in.
[01:45:56]  Shut the fuck up, Cooper.
[01:45:58]  To the Capitol.
[01:46:00]  Oh, well, wait.
[01:46:00]  Ray Epps didn't do anything because he said peacefully at the end, right?
[01:46:03]  We're going to move past it.
[01:46:04]  He did say, well, no, he said go into the Capitol.
[01:46:07]  Peacefully.
[01:46:08]  Well, so what?
[01:46:08]  It's still illegal to go into the Capitol.
[01:46:10]  But peacefully was the operative word.
[01:46:12]  Yeah, I thought peacefully made it all okay.
[01:46:14]  No, going in is illegal.
[01:46:16]  Trump didn't say storm the Capitol.
[01:46:18]  He didn't say go into the Capitol.
[01:46:20]  He's going to get six months in prison.
[01:46:22]  No.
[01:46:23]  I mean, you guys want to hear the argument for federal involvement or not?
[01:46:27]  Not really.
[01:46:27]  Okay.
[01:46:28]  I want to hear it.
[01:46:29]  All right.
[01:46:29]  Well, there's a lot of dimensions to it.
[01:46:32]  We can start with the Ray Epps issue.
[01:46:36]  Here's a guy.
[01:46:36]  You saw that.
[01:46:37]  That was only part of the clip.
[01:46:38]  There's much longer clips about Ray Epps.
[01:46:41]  But here's a guy who's the only guy caught on camera as early as January 5th, repeatedly calling for people to go into the Capitol and prefacing his seemingly rehearsed remarks in each case, saying, I'm probably going to go to jail for this.
[01:46:56]  I'm probably going to get arrested for this.
[01:46:58]  You need to go into the Capitol.
[01:47:00]  The next day, he flew across the whole country, presumably, to go hear Trump's speech.
[01:47:05]  He skipped Trump's speech.
[01:47:06]  Instead, he was a veritable where's Waldo everywhere on January 6th, directing people, go into the Capitol.
[01:47:13]  It's in that direction.
[01:47:14]  That's where our problems are.
[01:47:17]  Then, amazingly, he's pre-positioned right at that initial decisive breach point on the west perimeter of the Capitol, and he's whispering into somebody's ear just seconds before the bike racks are broken through.
[01:47:32]  He texts his nephew, I orchestrated it.
[01:47:35]  On paper, think about it.
[01:47:37]  He's like a 6'3 former Marine.
[01:47:39]  He was wearing camo gear and a Trump hat, and he just happens to have had a leadership position in the Oath Keepers, the most demonized and heavily prosecuted, right?
[01:47:49]  He doesn't the most demonized and heavily prosecuted militia group associated with January 6th.
[01:47:57]  And the regime doesn't touch him.
[01:48:00]  However, initially, his behavior was considered to be so egregious, he was one of the first 20 people added to the FBI's most wanted list about January 6th.
[01:48:10]  He was prominently featured in the New York Times' ominously titled Day of Rage.
[01:48:16]  Of all the clips the New York Times could have found and chosen, they chose Ray Epps to represent their thesis that this was a pre-planned insurrection to storm the Capitol.
[01:48:28]  And then when the discussion of federal involvement came into being, one of our major pieces at Revolver News, literally the next day is when the FBI quietly removed him from their list.
[01:48:40]  And all of a sudden, he went from FBI's most wanted and featured in the New York Times' Day of Rage to New York Times does a fully dedicated puff piece on him.
[01:48:50]  60 Minutes does a sympathy segment on him.
[01:48:54]  He's the only January 6th participant that Adam Kinsinger, who's never met a Trump supporter, he doesn't want to see rotting in jail for 50 years, that Adam Kinsinger will defend more aggressively than Epps' own lawyers.
[01:49:08]  And now, almost three years after the government finally says, okay, we're going to hit you with a wrist slap misdemeanor, as though people are so simple-minded to think, well, if the argument is hasn't been indicted, therefore he's a Fed.
[01:49:24]  If we indict him now, even if it's a misdemeanor, even three years after, no matter what the circumstances, this constitutes a refutation and totally wipes away the mountains of suspicious evidence surrounding the character of Ray Epps.
[01:49:40]  That's just the case of Epps.
[01:49:41]  There are many other things.
[01:49:42]  Can I just touch on that real quick?
[01:49:44]  So you mentioned he, you mentioned a few things I want to touch on.
[01:49:48]  So you talk about how he whispered in somebody's ear and moments later that guy went in the Capitol.
[01:49:52]  That was Mr. Samsell.
[01:49:53]  Samsil?
[01:49:54]  That's right.
[01:49:54]  And Mr. Samsell actually testified under oath.
[01:49:58]  I believe he is convicted.
[01:49:59]  He said that Epps actually said, told him, calm down.
[01:50:03]  The police are on our way.
[01:50:04]  Well, he's changed his story.
[01:50:05]  I don't rest out.
[01:50:07]  Did you write the original revolver article?
[01:50:09]  Yes.
[01:50:09]  Okay, thank you.
[01:50:10]  Okay.
[01:50:10]  I set aside three days to go over Ray Epps stuff and it took me six hours to see.
[01:50:13]  It was one of the stupidest conspiracies I've ever seen in my entire life.
[01:50:16]  So the other thing I just want to say is real fit.
[01:50:19]  So you said that he didn't get convicted.
[01:50:24]  He didn't get charged until three years later.
[01:50:27]  Okay.
[01:50:28]  So the people who were charged with anything but misdemeanors were people who used violence and people who went into the House chamber where the joint session was, and the people who were involved in a seditious conspiracy.
[01:50:45]  It had to be a conspiracy.
[01:50:46]  Ray Epps acted alone here.
[01:50:48]  Well, no, I wouldn't.
[01:50:51]  That's an open source.
[01:50:52]  As far as we can see, he acted alone.
[01:50:55]  Anything else beyond that would just be a conspiracy theory.
[01:50:58]  So he falls into the same category as a problem.
[01:51:01]  Well, sedition conspiracy is technically a conspiracy theory.
[01:51:04]  It doesn't mean that it's not true, right?
[01:51:06]  Seditious conspiracy is a charge.
[01:51:08]  Yeah, theory is a conspiracy.
[01:51:08]  It's a theory of the case.
[01:51:10]  A theory that there was a conspiracy that took place.
[01:51:12]  So he doesn't fall into any category that any of the other protesters fall in because he didn't fall into any of those three categories.
[01:51:20]  So he got charged with a misdemeanor.
[01:51:22]  Other people, the conspirators, the people who used violence, and the people who went into the House chamber are the ones who were charged with felonies.
[01:51:30]  For the Ray Epps stuff, if you look at his story from start to finish, it is incredibly obvious.
[01:51:34]  The guy is a boomer.
[01:51:35]  The guy was a huge Trump supporter.
[01:51:37]  He used to be part of the Oath Keepers a while before.
[01:51:39]  That's what he testified to under oath.
[01:51:41]  He used to be part of the Oath Keepers years earlier, then he'd left, and it was the Arizona chapter.
[01:51:46]  Ray Epps.
[01:51:47]  He was the head of the Arizona.
[01:51:48]  That's fine.
[01:51:48]  Ray Epps went to the march.
[01:51:50]  You said he skipped the speech.
[01:51:52]  Tons of people were listening to the speech on cell phones and other things and broadcasting to other people.
[01:51:56]  Ray Epps was outside the speech.
[01:51:58]  There's on video, I know, because you posted in your article with him literally telling people, let's go, we're going, we're marching to the speech.
[01:52:04]  Sure.
[01:52:05]  Yeah, but he's, yeah, but he's out to the ellipse where he's going to be able to do it.
[01:52:07]  He's telling people in advance of the speech, we need to go to the Capitol because somehow he got it in his mind that everything would end up at the Capitol.
[01:52:13]  Pretty sure he's doing it in his as Trump is making the speech, not before the speech has begun.
[01:52:18]  No, when he's directing the speech, before the speech began, there are timestamps on the video.
[01:52:22]  And you can go back and watch it on your revolver story is up there.
[01:52:26]  For every single thing that you assert about him, that he's in video whispering into a guy's ear.
[01:52:30]  You say it in the rest of your article.
[01:52:32]  All he's doing on the day of when the protesting is getting violent is going up and down telling people, don't fight with the cops.
[01:52:37]  Don't fight with the cops.
[01:52:38]  The cops are on our side.
[01:52:38]  That's what he's saying the entire time.
[01:52:40]  The idea that he said that the entire day, but the one guy whose ear that he whispered into, that unfortunately we don't have audio capture of, that he and Samsuel testified to is he said, hey, the cops are on our side or the cops aren't enemies.
[01:52:52]  They both say something to that effect.
[01:52:53]  And that seems to synergize with everything else he said on that day.
[01:52:56]  You go on to say that that guy immediately after was the one that broke down the fence.
[01:52:59]  No, he's not.
[01:52:59]  You can see like 15 people right next to him that are all trying to break down the fence.
[01:53:03]  Yeah, the guy goes in eventually.
[01:53:04]  But if we truly believe that this guy is a federal agent or is working to instigate the riot, we've laid out absolutely nothing supporting that.
[01:53:11]  Just some video footage of another boomer being at the rally.
[01:53:14]  No, no, no.
[01:53:15]  That was there.
[01:53:16]  If you want to say that, why was he removed from the FBI list?
[01:53:19]  I mean, why was he removed in the realist?
[01:53:21]  Like, all the information is out there.
[01:53:22]  He said that after his video was identified and people on X started to identify him, and then because all of his online stuff is incredibly easy to find, he started to get phone calls, he started to get harassed, he started to get threats.
[01:53:32]  So he called the FBI as soon as this was brought to his attention and he told the FBI, hey, this was me and here I am and this is what's happening.
[01:53:38]  And the FBI took him off the list.
[01:53:41]  Your timeline is wrong.
[01:53:42]  He called the FBI when he saw himself in the videos.
[01:53:46]  Wrong.
[01:53:47]  Yeah, a friend told him about it.
[01:53:49]  And he said that, yeah, that's what he said.
[01:53:52]  That's what he testified.
[01:53:54]  He called the FBI very shortly after January 6th because of his picture being on the most wanted list.
[01:54:02]  He wasn't taken off the most wanted list until the middle part of 2021.
[01:54:10]  There were multiple months span between him calling the FBI in the first instance and being quietly removed.
[01:54:17]  That's not true.
[01:54:18]  Yes, it is.
[01:54:18]  That's not true.
[01:54:19]  Well, I mean, I can tell you why it's not true, okay?
[01:54:22]  Because what you did, because I read your article, is you looked at two archived versions of the website and you didn't have a 12-month archive.
[01:54:28]  For some reason, you assumed that the recent snapshot that you took at 2021, you think that that was the first time the page has been changed.
[01:54:35]  That was just the first time the page has been archived.
[01:54:37]  I don't think the FBI has made a statement on it, but what Epps testified to was that he either saw a video of himself or a friend saw a video of himself or a friend saw him on the list where people were, and then people were making videos.
[01:54:45]  And then he called the FBI and he said, hey, I need to talk to you, and this is what's going on.
[01:54:50]  If he was a Fed, why would they remove him from the list when everybody's clearly looking at the list?
[01:54:53]  He was one of the only people removed.
[01:54:55]  Why would senators be defending him so vigilantly?
[01:54:57]  Why wouldn't that's a great question?
[01:54:58]  Why was he quietly removed right when the question of federal involvement became a major part of the national conversation?
[01:55:05]  So, let me just, I don't want to get lost in these weeds.
[01:55:09]  I just want to say something quickly.
[01:55:10]  So, you're saying he said we need to go into the Capitol peacefully.
[01:55:15]  And you point out correctly that in many instances, caught on video, he's engaged in what you could call de-escalation of the crowd, and he's not urging people to violence.
[01:55:25]  That's all correct.
[01:55:26]  I never said he's urging people to violence.
[01:55:28]  He was absolutely a provocateur.
[01:55:30]  And his mission, as stated and as implemented and as orchestrated by his own verbatim text, was he wanted people to go into the Capitol peacefully.
[01:55:43]  That might be the case.
[01:55:44]  Wait, wait, that might be the case.
[01:55:45]  And if that's all you're saying, there's no way to do it.
[01:55:47]  It's not all.
[01:55:47]  No, that's everything.
[01:55:49]  That's everything.
[01:55:50]  Nobody here is saying that he didn't say that and he didn't want people to do that.
[01:55:54]  But the claim is that there's some sort of federal.
[01:55:57]  That's fine and he could be charged for it.
[01:55:59]  Do you think anybody's here care if he gets charged for that crime?
[01:56:01]  The issue is you're saying that he was doing it under the direction of a federal agency.
[01:56:05]  Yeah, this guy that looks like he's dying of type 2 diabetes and arthritis is somehow some intimidating Marine captain that's sending people into the Capitol.
[01:56:12]  That was your claim that you've provided zero evidence for, and you don't in either of the articles that you write about him.
[01:56:17]  We've got Glenn back on the horn.
[01:56:18]  And Glenn, we've been talking about Ray Epps.
[01:56:20]  We played a video.
[01:56:20]  I'm not sure if you saw it.
[01:56:21]  Not Glenn Beck.
[01:56:23]  Did I say Glenn Greenwald?
[01:56:24]  Greenwald.
[01:56:24]  Yeah, Glenn Glenn.
[01:56:25]  That's so funny, Glenn.
[01:56:26]  They're hard to tell the difference between nowadays.
[01:56:28]  But Glenn has been very mentioned.
[01:56:30]  What did you hear from Glenn Greenwald?
[01:56:31]  That's so funny.
[01:56:32]  What's happened, dude?
[01:56:34]  Well, I just, I mean, I only heard the last four minutes of the conversation, but I'm still always amazed by I really don't understand the argument because the FBI and the U.S. security state before January 6th was saying that they regard the greatest threat to national security not as being ISIS or Al-Qaeda or Hamas or Hezbollah or China or any other foreign threat.
[01:56:56]  They regard the greatest threat as being right-wing domestic extremists on whom in whom that was included on many lists, the Oath Keepers, the three percenters, and all of the people in the groups that they said orchestrated to January 6th.
[01:57:13]  Is the argument that you think that the FBI was not monitoring and infiltrating those groups?
[01:57:19]  Because there's actually a ton of evidence that the FBI had their hooks in all three of those groups and not only had their hooks in them, but on January 6th had informants on the ground who were pretending to be Trump supporters who were talking in real time to the FBI about everything that was happening.
[01:57:35]  So I just want to understand what the claim is.
[01:57:37]  Is the claim that the FBI was not involved in the groups that organized January 6th and didn't have informants with them that day?
[01:57:43]  They weren't instigating.
[01:57:44]  So that's your claim.
[01:57:46]  It came out that the vice president of the Oath Keepers was an FBI informant.
[01:57:51]  The Proud Boys had at least three and as many as eight.
[01:57:54]  And the New York Times itself reported that there were FBI informants and the Proud Boys who were inside the Capitol texting their handlers as the event unfolded.
[01:58:06]  So they recorded the garage.
[01:58:08]  They recorded the garage meeting the day before.
[01:58:10]  And the Fed said the court, nothing was said violent or no planning.
[01:58:13]  Yeah.
[01:58:14]  Brian, you wanted to say something?
[01:58:15]  Yeah.
[01:58:15]  So I'm just confused.
[01:58:16]  So you're saying that Ray Epps was actually a federal agent who was indicted, who pled guilty and is likely going to get six months in prison.
[01:58:28]  Is that your argument?
[01:58:28]  Well, the New York Times protected.
[01:58:30]  Wait, wait, wait.
[01:58:31]  About Epps.
[01:58:32]  So a couple of things there.
[01:58:34]  You don't find it a little bit strange.
[01:58:37]  Wait, wait, wait.
[01:58:38]  I'll get to you.
[01:58:39]  I promise you.
[01:58:39]  I promise you I'll address that.
[01:58:41]  But let's just consider the context.
[01:58:43]  The context in the immediate aftermath of January 6th, by the words of Steve Sherwin, who is in charge of the prosecution, their posture was one of quote-unquote shock and awe.
[01:58:54]  They were going after everyone.
[01:58:56]  They were hitting them very hard.
[01:58:58]  Now, again, think about central casting.
[01:59:00]  On paper, Ray Epps, he's the 6'3 former Marine in camouflage gear with a Trump hat.
[01:59:08]  The only guy caught on video as early as the 5th telling people to go into the Capitol, who's there on the 6th, directing people to the Capitol, who's right there pre-positioned at that initial breach phase.
[01:59:20]  And this Ram Signs helping Ramstein.
[01:59:23]  Exactly.
[01:59:24]  And he happens to be a former head of the Oath Keepers.
[01:59:27]  And you're not telling me it's bizarre.
[01:59:29]  Wait a second.
[01:59:30]  You're not telling me it's at least a little bit bizarre that of all January 6th participants, he's the only one who gets a New York Times puff piece.
[01:59:38]  He's the only one who gets a 60 minutes sympathy segment.
[01:59:42]  He's the only one that Adam Kinsinger will defend.
[01:59:45]  So are you saying that New York Times is now working with the feds, working with Ray Epps?

=== Owen's Asset Defense (15:42) ===

[01:59:50]  Yes.
[01:59:50]  No, as a matter of fact, why do you think they all wrote those articles?
[01:59:54]  Why did they say they were WMDs in Iraq?
[01:59:57]  So going back, why did they write those articles?
[01:59:59]  Why don't you say that part?
[02:00:00]  Wait, so I want to address your question directly.
[02:00:02]  You're saying, if he were an asset, and by the way, I'm not definitive in the sense that, oh, I don't think he was working directly for the FBI.
[02:00:10]  I don't even know if he was directly working for the Southern Party.
[02:00:13]  He was an asset.
[02:00:14]  He was acting on behalf of a third party.
[02:00:16]  He was not an authentic actor on that day.
[02:00:20]  That I will say with a great idea.
[02:00:22]  But wait a second.
[02:00:24]  It's a victory.
[02:00:24]  Let me say one thing.
[02:00:25]  I've been gone for 10 minutes.
[02:00:26]  It's a victory.
[02:00:27]  They went from saying he's an angel of CNN, MSNBC, New York Times.
[02:00:31]  He's perfectly normal.
[02:00:34]  They've been forced to indict him.
[02:00:35]  Alex, quick thing on that.
[02:00:38]  The criminal complaint acknowledges that he engaged in quote-unquote felonious behavior.
[02:00:45]  But among the mitigating factors that they cite is, oh, this poor guy was a victim of all these conspiracy theories.
[02:00:52]  It's pretty remarkable.
[02:00:53]  He was, though.
[02:00:54]  He was.
[02:00:55]  I want to address that.
[02:00:57]  Why don't you answer that?
[02:00:58]  When Cornwall's very talked over.
[02:01:00]  Why were people writing?
[02:01:02]  I want to just quickly answer the question about your question, basically, if he was an asset, why did they go after their own asset?
[02:01:10]  Why would they indict their own asset?
[02:01:12]  That happens all the time.
[02:01:13]  In fact, that's almost the norm that ultimately when they have undercover people, they'll indict them.
[02:01:19]  When the assets become liabilities, they indict them.
[02:01:23]  In fact, we don't have to go too far into the past to get a case of that.
[02:01:27]  There is the Michigan fednapping case or the Michigan kidnapping case where there is the informant, Steve Robeson, who was a longtime over decade-long informant who was part of the entrapment scheme in Michigan case with striking parallels to January 6th, by the way.
[02:01:41]  And he, when he became inconvenient, was indicted by the government.
[02:01:46]  There's so many cases.
[02:01:48]  I was fighting for actually breaking the law.
[02:01:49]  I need a better argument.
[02:01:51]  I just want to get my point out really fast, really fast.
[02:01:54]  I haven't been able to get my point in.
[02:01:55]  So you're saying that Ray Epps is a federal agent.
[02:01:59]  Well, I didn't say that.
[02:02:00]  Well, and that he was acting on behalf of authority, inauthentic actor on TV.
[02:02:04]  Even though there's no evidence of this.
[02:02:06]  And then you're saying he's turning around and he's suing Fox News for defamation, which is going to open up all sorts of cans of worms with discovery that he's going to have to provide legally in front of a court.
[02:02:21]  You think that if he was a federal agent, he'd be suing Fox News for defamation.
[02:02:24]  They know they control the jurisdiction, but he did say in a text message that day during it, I orchestrated the attack.
[02:02:31]  You think he's going to sue for defamation?
[02:02:34]  He's going to be a picture.
[02:02:35]  He was writing to his nephew that asked him if he was there.
[02:02:37]  And he said, I orchestrated.
[02:02:38]  He said I orchestrated it.
[02:02:39]  To his nephew.
[02:02:40]  To his nephew.
[02:02:41]  Wow, well, it's a definite thing.
[02:02:43]  Why would a federal agent text such incriminating evidence to his nephew?
[02:02:46]  Why wasn't he indicted before?
[02:02:48]  We made him the centerpiece congressional hearings.
[02:02:52]  He was all over the news.
[02:02:53]  We were forced to do it thanks to Tucker Carlson and Professor Darren Beatty's work.
[02:02:58]  Wait, wait, why do you trust Tucker Carlson when he said he lied to you?
[02:03:01]  Tucker Carlson said Sidney Powell was crazy.
[02:03:04]  Tucker Carlson left Fox News because he didn't believe the election fraud claims that he was being forced to push on TV because of Trump.
[02:03:10]  Why would you trust Tucker Carlson of all people?
[02:03:12]  Tucker early on thought it was wrong.
[02:03:13]  Now he says he was wrong about that.
[02:03:15]  Now he says he thinks the election is a good thing.
[02:03:16]  Oh, crazy.
[02:03:17]  Let me ask you when the lawsuit goes away.
[02:03:20]  When his lawsuit goes away, the answers change.
[02:03:22]  Listen, whether you're right or wrong, you have a right to question the elections.
[02:03:25]  The Democrats do not have to.
[02:03:27]  No one wants to take that right from you.
[02:03:28]  Brian, you were saying.
[02:03:28]  Yes.
[02:03:29]  Can I say something here?
[02:03:30]  Because the whole context for this conversation is, again, I mean, you just keep going back to it because it's so easy to see.
[02:03:40]  People have this idea of the FBI, like, oh, they don't do this sort of thing.
[02:03:44]  Earlier, I think it was Ed who said, wait, why would the New York Times run a puff piece?
[02:03:47]  Do you think they're working with the FBI?
[02:03:49]  Like, that idea to him is so important.
[02:03:51]  I didn't say that.
[02:03:52]  I didn't say that.
[02:03:53]  It was me.
[02:03:53]  No idea what the history of the FBI is in this country.
[02:03:56]  They have no idea that the FBI, throughout the entire war on terror, did this over and over.
[02:04:00]  They would target and entrap all sorts of vulnerable Muslims to engage in plots that the FBI created in order to create a narrative that the FBI was needed because there was a much bigger threat of Islamic terrorism than there actually was.
[02:04:13]  The FBI has been infiltrating and then using provocateurs to encourage groups to commit crimes so that the FBI can gain more power, can spread this narrative.
[02:04:21]  You have to be incredibly naive or only paying attention to the news since 2016 and thinking Donald Trump is the only issue not to understand that this is what the FBI has been doing for decades.
[02:04:31]  And so to have this like naive attitude like, oh, is the New York Times working with the FBI?
[02:04:35]  That is what the media in this country has been doing.
[02:04:38]  But you have no evidence of it.
[02:04:39]  You're making it, you're just making theories up.
[02:04:41]  By the way, if I can just add a nice little colorful detail there, the author of the Ray Epps puff piece that asks none of the questions that would get to the core of his involvement there.
[02:04:52]  It's a total puff piece.
[02:04:53]  You can read it yourself.
[02:04:54]  The author of that, his previous work, includes the CIA authorized account of the Sinaloa cartel.
[02:05:03]  Yeah, so the idea of the New York Times.
[02:05:05]  Let me say something.
[02:05:05]  The idea of the New York Times is doing cleanup work for the deep states and saying what Glenn Greenwald was saying is key.
[02:05:10]  I remember the New York Times headline.
[02:05:11]  They can pull it up in there.
[02:05:12]  We're not showing videos or clips.
[02:05:14]  It would be too much here.
[02:05:15]  I remember the New York Times headline like 15 years ago.
[02:05:18]  97% of Islamic terror plots were hatched and run by the FBI.
[02:05:23]  That was the headline.
[02:05:24]  We're getting so far.
[02:05:25]  Including the first World Trade Center bombing, by the way, which is Alex.
[02:05:29]  Alex, just one really quick thing.
[02:05:31]  You said Ray Epps was one of the last to be charged.
[02:05:35]  He isn't the last to be charged.
[02:05:37]  There's 1,200 people that have been charged.
[02:05:38]  1,250, I believe.
[02:05:39]  You said he's the last to be charged.
[02:05:42]  Alex said they waited three years.
[02:05:43]  Yeah, they waited three years.
[02:05:45]  Do you realize that they're still indicting people?
[02:05:47]  And they expect that they're not.
[02:05:49]  They had puff pieces.
[02:05:50]  He was on agency.
[02:05:51]  Let me finish my point, Alex.
[02:05:53]  Oh, my God.
[02:05:54]  So do you realize that they're still indicting people?
[02:05:57]  There's likely going to be hundreds of people still indicted.
[02:05:59]  Ray Epps didn't get any less a sentence than anybody else that did anything like that.
[02:06:04]  Well, first of all, they spoke to more serious charges than they did.
[02:06:08]  He addressed me.
[02:06:09]  What were the charges?
[02:06:10]  Let me respond.
[02:06:12]  What charge do you recommend?
[02:06:13]  What charge would have been affected?
[02:06:14]  I'll respond to what you said.
[02:06:16]  Yeah, let Alex respond and then I want to hear Darren's response.
[02:06:18]  My God, the man is like a chicken with his head cut off for three days, including the day of the event, running around saying, go in the Capitol.
[02:06:25]  He's ramming signs into people.
[02:06:27]  He testifies, I orchestrated this attack.
[02:06:30]  And that's testifying.
[02:06:32]  And then that was a Jan 6 committee.
[02:06:34]  They asked about this text message.
[02:06:35]  He said, I did that.
[02:06:36]  Yeah, the text.
[02:06:37]  He didn't testify that he orchestrated.
[02:06:38]  No, he testified to the Jan 6 committee.
[02:06:40]  And he sent the message to his nephew.
[02:06:41]  No, he testified that he orchestrated it to the Gen 6 committee?
[02:06:46]  You keep it running because you can't.
[02:06:48]  I'm not telling people.
[02:06:49]  I'm Michael Jordan slamming on you.
[02:06:51]  And what's going to happen is everybody's going to get this clip.
[02:06:54]  He testified the Jan 6 committee.
[02:06:56]  They said, is this your text message?
[02:06:58]  Yes.
[02:06:58]  And he said, yes, I told my nephew I orchestrated it.
[02:07:01]  Now, stop.
[02:07:02]  Let me finish my point.
[02:07:05]  Thank you for being honest about it.
[02:07:07]  You keep acting honest.
[02:07:08]  He said I orchestrated it.
[02:07:10]  You keep acting like he said.
[02:07:12]  He testified that he said to his nephew that he said that.
[02:07:14]  Yes.
[02:07:14]  Yes.
[02:07:15]  In a text message.
[02:07:16]  There you go.
[02:07:16]  And he did orchestrate.
[02:07:17]  He did testify.
[02:07:18]  So the point is, you keep acting like my victory is a failure.
[02:07:21]  Where's the evidence that he orchestrated it?
[02:07:22]  I'd love to hear it.
[02:07:23]  He said it.
[02:07:24]  To his nephew.
[02:07:26]  I text my friends things all the time that are embellished.
[02:07:30]  Because you guys, let me finish my point.
[02:07:32]  They're all over every major corporate channel saying this poor little baby.
[02:07:37]  They're saying he was a Fed or an operative or a provocateur for some NGO.
[02:07:41]  He didn't do anything wrong.
[02:07:42]  And when it got so obvious, they finally indicted him with a slap on the wrist.
[02:07:47]  And then you're sitting here saying he didn't testify.
[02:07:50]  He just testified.
[02:07:52]  Whoa.
[02:07:53]  No, he said he didn't testify that he orchestrated it.
[02:07:56]  He testified that he sent that text to his nephew.
[02:07:59]  Yeah, he orchestrated it.
[02:08:00]  But no, then they asked him.
[02:08:02]  Alex, then they asked him if he actually orchestrated it.
[02:08:05]  What was his answer?
[02:08:07]  In the transcript, he said it wasn't that he orchestrated it.
[02:08:12]  So if I send somebody a message saying, oh, bank is robbed, I robbed the bank.
[02:08:15]  Have you ever embellished a text message to anybody that you know?
[02:08:19]  Like you?
[02:08:20]  Maybe not.
[02:08:20]  Maybe not you.
[02:08:21]  I can't see you doing that, but maybe.
[02:08:23]  Actually, I'm kind of an understated confidence.
[02:08:25]  Yeah, Alex, you started bringing up a good point.
[02:08:27]  If I sent a text message saying I robbed the bank, can I get charged with robbing a bank if I didn't do it?
[02:08:32]  If they got evidence, he's not going to be able to do it.
[02:08:34]  Exactly.
[02:08:34]  Exactly.
[02:08:35]  They need the evidence.
[02:08:36]  It's not like he's there saying go into the building.
[02:08:38]  He needs to eventually.
[02:08:38]  It's not like he's there saying go into the and ramming signs.
[02:08:41]  You're right.
[02:08:42]  He's not there saying go in for three days.
[02:08:44]  He's not there ramming signs.
[02:08:45]  You're right.
[02:08:46]  Ray Epps is innocent.
[02:08:47]  He's not there rambling signs.
[02:08:52]  You guys are indefensible.
[02:08:53]  My question is, what should Ray Epps have been charged with?
[02:08:56]  What law did he break that instead of what he was charged with, I think, was obstructing the proceeding.
[02:09:01]  Let me respond.
[02:09:02]  No, he was not charged with that.
[02:09:04]  That's the interesting thing.
[02:09:05]  He was charged with obstruction of an official proceeding, which would have been a very easy charge and a fairly typical felony charge given to me.
[02:09:14]  So wait, wait, let me answer this comprehensively.
[02:09:17]  So first of all, it's extremely strange, given how conspicuous and egregious and concentrated his behavior was, that he somehow was able to avoid the obstruction of official proceeding charge.
[02:09:33]  Number one.
[02:09:34]  Number two, there are even more serious charges they could have given him.
[02:09:38]  In fact, in the series of videos that we put out, there's one specific exchange he had with another guy.
[02:09:44]  He said, when we go in, leave this here.
[02:09:49]  We don't want to get shot.
[02:09:51]  So when we go in, leave this here.
[02:09:53]  He's referring to that individual's bear spray.
[02:09:56]  That individual ends up going into the Capitol, committing violence, and doing a whole bunch of other things.
[02:10:02]  And this is a bizarre case because this guy, who is super egregious, has to this day not fully been charged.
[02:10:10]  His case hasn't even gone to a district judge yet.
[02:10:12]  So the obstruction.
[02:10:13]  So let me give you a sense.
[02:10:15]  Let me give you a sense.
[02:10:16]  Because when we're evaluating these things, we have to compare them to standards applied to others.
[02:10:21]  Oh, let me stop you.
[02:10:22]  You'll go next.
[02:10:23]  Owen Schroyer, I've known him eight years.
[02:10:25]  He's a badass guy that helps disabled children and is literally like a super good person.
[02:10:33]  No criminal issues in his life other than protesting.
[02:10:37]  He is with me saying don't go in.
[02:10:40]  They charge him and in the charging documents say Owen's lying.
[02:10:44]  He doesn't work for Infowars.
[02:10:46]  That's in the charging documents, the sentencing documents.
[02:10:49]  The judge says, I'm putting you in these months in federal prison because you just questioned the election again and gave three examples of why he did it.
[02:10:57]  So Owen spends months in a federal prison.
[02:11:00]  Why don't he talk about the deferred agreement that he had in 2019?
[02:11:04]  No, I agree.
[02:11:05]  I will.
[02:11:05]  Code Pink runs around and protesting.
[02:11:08]  He put tape over his mouth when they were letting leftists run around and throw red paint in Congress.
[02:11:12]  And they said, sir, you can't do that.
[02:11:14]  And he agreed that he wouldn't do it.
[02:11:16]  And he pay on it.
[02:11:17]  And he didn't protest.
[02:11:18]  He went there to cover it.
[02:11:20]  He was in a restricted area, though.
[02:11:22]  No, he was on.
[02:11:23]  Listen, Ray Epps is not.
[02:11:25]  Listen, listen.
[02:11:26]  Owen is there with me saying don't go in.
[02:11:28]  He agreed he would not protest.
[02:11:30]  He was there saying don't go in the Capitol and you're not going to defend him going to fight.
[02:11:34]  But he pled guilty to everything that he got charged with.
[02:11:37]  Because it's a rigged DC court.
[02:11:41]  Or he laughed at that.
[02:11:43]  Or you could explain it because the problem is on our side.
[02:11:45]  We've got testimony under oath.
[02:11:47]  We've got judicial rulings.
[02:11:48]  We've got jury trials.
[02:11:49]  We've got full videos.
[02:11:50]  Everybody's got the video.
[02:11:52]  Of these, we have to say, all of these pieces of evidence.
[02:11:56]  I can't finish a single statement.
[02:11:58]  Yeah, the problem is.
[02:11:59]  Let me tell you something.
[02:11:59]  Sam, our reporter, deserves to go to jail for being there and trying to keep people going to build.
[02:12:05]  We pled guilty.
[02:12:06]  Yeah, what do you do?
[02:12:06]  What do you do in a rigged DC court?
[02:12:08]  Fight your case.
[02:12:09]  Yeah.
[02:12:10]  Oh, yeah.
[02:12:10]  Innocent fight.
[02:12:11]  If you have evidence that you're innocent, fight.
[02:12:13]  But there was no evidence because he broke the agreement that he signed, and then he pled guilty and said, I broke the agreement that I signed and agreed to the sentence that the sentencing guy.
[02:12:22]  And Trump should meal Rose Rose.
[02:12:23]  Also, this entire argument has been you, again, arguing for an insurrection, for a rebellion.
[02:12:28]  All we have, everything we have over here, is actual testimony under oath, actual judicial rulings, actual rulings by judges.
[02:12:34]  Actual rulings by judging.
[02:12:35]  By the Supreme Court thing.
[02:12:36]  I can't finish that.
[02:12:37]  I have to go finish.
[02:12:38]  I got to go finish it.
[02:12:39]  I got to go finish this.
[02:12:41]  We can provide these arguments.
[02:12:43]  We can provide the evidence.
[02:12:44]  We can provide the testimony.
[02:12:44]  And all you do is go, oh, well, I don't trust the courts.
[02:12:46]  Oh, well, I don't trust statements made under oath.
[02:12:48]  Oh, well, oh, hasn't the FBI done this in the past?
[02:12:50]  You can skirt by providing hard evidence.
[02:12:52]  I got to be able to finish one thing.
[02:12:53]  You don't know how much a criminal is.
[02:12:56]  You can skirt by on providing any hard evidence for literally a single claim that you've made today.
[02:13:01]  There hasn't been any evidence provided to support any of the claims made today.
[02:13:04]  And you are hand-brushing away every single other claim that's made literally talked about under oath by people that were loyal to Trump, by people that Trump trusted over and over and over again.
[02:13:15]  And at the end of the day, what could you possibly be advocating for besides an insurrection?
[02:13:19]  I didn't finish the thing.
[02:13:20]  I think it's because when I talk, you get really afraid.
[02:13:22]  No, no, you're not.
[02:13:23]  I appreciate that.
[02:13:24]  I understand.
[02:13:25]  Okay.
[02:13:25]  You just said when I defended Owen, you just said, here you are advocating for insurrection again.
[02:13:31]  Exact quote.
[02:13:32]  A guy saying, don't go in the Capitol as a reporter, and you don't even stand up for the First Amendment or whatever.
[02:13:37]  Do you trust the courts?
[02:13:39]  I don't think most Americans do.
[02:13:40]  That's when you have real revolution.
[02:13:41]  Okay, if you don't trust the court, real revolution.
[02:13:43]  What do we do in a real revolution?
[02:13:44]  Hey, listen, we're not trying to go there right now.
[02:13:46]  We are there right now.
[02:13:47]  We just were there.
[02:13:48]  It's January 6th.
[02:13:49]  If there was any time to go there, Touchry.
[02:13:51]  Listen, if there is one, where would you?
[02:13:53]  If there is one, you're going to lose.
[02:13:54]  Sure.
[02:13:54]  Okay, we'll see.
[02:13:55]  Okay.
[02:13:56]  Where is the.
[02:13:57]  Didn't like four people dying on January 6th from obesity and meth?
[02:14:02]  If these are the people we have to fight, I think we'll be okay.
[02:14:03]  Ashley Babbitt, you're dehumanizing her.
[02:14:05]  Was she on meth?
[02:14:06]  I don't think she was one of the four that died for meth.
[02:14:08]  She definitely gunshot.
[02:14:09]  Did she deserve to be shot?
[02:14:11]  She was trying to climb into an area where federal agents were saying, if you climb in here, I'm going to shoot you.
[02:14:14]  Federal gods?
[02:14:15]  Federal agents?
[02:14:16]  I'm sorry.
[02:14:17]  Do federal agents not have the right to shoot people?
[02:14:19]  You would have pulled the trigger on her.
[02:14:19]  You like that.
[02:14:20]  If I was one of the federal agents there and I thought it was appropriate to protect you, their job is to protect the people.
[02:14:27]  Do I like that?
[02:14:28]  No, you guys were the ones cheering on the other side of that.
[02:14:30]  All right, I think you guys were cheering for it the entire time.
[02:14:33]  Talking about Owen, we got to sell it.
[02:14:34]  I want to know what do we do if we don't trust the courts.
[02:14:36]  We don't trust the courts.
[02:14:37]  We don't trust the president.
[02:14:38]  Don't Julian Assange deserve to be in prison.
[02:14:40]  I'm not here to talk about Julian Assange or the rest of your friends, okay?
[02:14:43]  Tell me, what do we do if he doesn't?
[02:14:45]  There's a reason he won't answer the question.
[02:14:46]  The reason why is because he answered rebellion and insurrection.
[02:14:48]  There's a reason why they are saying that.
[02:14:51]  We are going to get back to.
[02:14:53]  I talked about Owen, who was there peacefully and said, don't go in.
[02:14:56]  And he said, you're defending insurrection.
[02:14:58]  Everybody's going to play that quote.
[02:15:00]  That's not true.
[02:15:01]  Okay, I think, and you know what, I agree?
[02:15:03]  I think claiming that that is a defense of insurrection is different.
[02:15:05]  You were defending maybe Owen.
[02:15:07]  Yes.
[02:15:08]  Okay.
[02:15:08]  Now, I want to get back to Darren because there was a question that was, we took a tangent.
[02:15:13]  And also, Glenn, I think you look like you're about to say something.

=== Stuart Rhodes' Obstruction Claims (03:27) ===

[02:15:15]  So if you wanted to speak first.
[02:15:17]  Darren, go ahead first on just to close the Ray Epps thing, but I do want to say something as well about what I've been hearing.
[02:15:23]  I'm fine.
[02:15:25]  What charges do you think he should have gotten?
[02:15:26]  I think he could and should have gotten far more serious charges.
[02:15:30]  The first example is the easiest and most readily available obstruction of official proceeding, which is basically the standard charge for people who've done far less egregious things than Absolute.
[02:15:40]  No, but it really isn't, though, because the only people charged with that, I believe, the people who went into the House chamber.
[02:15:46]  No.
[02:15:46]  The people that walked through the Capitol did not get charged with that.
[02:15:50]  First of all, that's not the case.
[02:15:51]  And second of all, that's not an ironclad law.
[02:15:55]  That's not an ironclad law pertaining to the application of that charge.
[02:15:59]  Secondly, there's a far more serious conspiracy charge that the government had available to them if we use the standards that they've applied in similar January 6th cases.
[02:16:09]  He was way worse, way worse than Joe Biggs or Stuart Rhodes.
[02:16:14]  I mean, he's literally, where's Stuart Rhodes saying invade the Capitol?
[02:16:17]  Where's Stuart Rhodes attacking people or ramming signs?
[02:16:20]  Ray Epps did that.
[02:16:21]  Stuart Rhodes literally said that if Trump doesn't impose the Insurrection Act, that we need an insurrection.
[02:16:28]  And he said, storm the Capitol.
[02:16:30]  And he went into the Capitol and he hurt police officers.
[02:16:34]  Did you call for people?
[02:16:35]  That is a nutshell.
[02:16:36]  Joe Biggs did.
[02:16:37]  Joe Biggs went to the Capitol.
[02:16:39]  Joe Biggs, I got wrote.
[02:16:40]  Either Joe Biggs or Stuart Rhodes.
[02:16:42]  Stuart Rhodes did not do that.
[02:16:43]  No, one of them, I forget which one of them said that.
[02:16:48]  Yeah, Joe got.
[02:16:50]  You don't even know what I'm doing.
[02:16:50]  He deserves a year in jail.
[02:16:51]  He doesn't share.
[02:16:52]  You don't know what I'm going to say, though.
[02:16:54]  One of them called for people to defend the White House and shoot to kill the National Police.
[02:17:00]  Let me just answer really quickly.
[02:17:02]  Let me say that.
[02:17:03]  Stuart Rhodes did say that on air, and I told him he was wrong to his face.
[02:17:08]  So I'm going to be honest.
[02:17:09]  Wait a second.
[02:17:09]  One thing.
[02:17:10]  Before it happened, he did say if Trump calls us out for a civil war, I was like, dude, I'm not for this on air.
[02:17:17]  That's right.
[02:17:17]  Very quickly.
[02:17:18]  I agree.
[02:17:18]  There's a lot of rhetoric on most of the time.
[02:17:19]  Why?
[02:17:20]  I'm going to take an example of somebody who didn't go into the Capitol who got obstruction from the pitchful proceeding.
[02:17:25]  Thomas Caldwell.
[02:17:26]  That's one of them.
[02:17:28]  I'm not familiar.
[02:17:28]  Well, I'm going to be honest.
[02:17:29]  Stuart Rhodes did say what he just said.
[02:17:32]  I don't think you guys consider that.
[02:17:36]  So if you put that together with.
[02:17:37]  No, I get there was some rhetoric.
[02:17:39]  It was dangerous.
[02:17:40]  So I mean, if you put that together with the planning, him and Biggs were planning on two different ends, one oath keepers, one.
[02:17:47]  There's no proof they planned it.
[02:17:48]  Well, if you look at the Telegram message, an undercover reporter, an undercover agent recorded the conversation in the garage.
[02:17:53]  But have you looked at the Telegram messages where they're basically instructing people where to go and where they're at and that saying, hey, we stormed the Capitol.
[02:18:03]  We took the Capitol.
[02:18:03]  Now, there's no doubt there was LARPing without Trump's directives of some people talking about that.
[02:18:08]  All right, we're going to.
[02:18:09]  Wait, but why don't we trust their messages?
[02:18:10]  But we do trust Ray Epps bragging to his nephew that he orchestrated.
[02:18:14]  No, I just said they were talking about it.
[02:18:16]  We're going to go.
[02:18:17]  Yeah, Glenn.
[02:18:18]  Let's like Glenn finish this one off because then I have another question for you guys.
[02:18:22]  Yeah, the whole thing, like listening to them, honestly, it's like listening.
[02:18:26]  I don't mean to be insulting.

=== Plenty Charged, Fewer Prison Sentences? (07:26) ===

[02:18:27]  I'm just saying this.
[02:18:28]  You know, it's what it sounds like.
[02:18:29]  Like seventh graders who learn civics class and have this understanding of how the U.S. government works.
[02:18:33]  Like, oh, the FBI investigate and they discover crimes and then they go to the courts and the courts are very honest and the courts are apolitical and the courts make rulings.
[02:18:42]  And everything that has happened in January 6th, and you can even look at the people they picked and choose who to expand the law, the people who ended up getting prosecuted on felony counts, even though they were nonviolent, had these incredibly novel interpretations of law that were used against them to turn nonviolent demonstration and nonviolent political protest into felony by taking this post-Enron law and giving it a stretched meaning that it never had before.
[02:19:07]  And the reason so many of them plead guilty is because they know that if they go into court, they're going to have rulings against them because a lot of these judges, especially in Washington, are not only Democratic Party judges, but the entire system is furious to watch people go and put their feet up on Nancy Pelosi's death.
[02:19:23]  So the entire system decided that this has to be punished regardless of what the law provides.
[02:19:28]  You had the FBI with their hooks inside all of these groups.
[02:19:32]  But I do understand that if you believe in this story of American propaganda, that the FBI is these upstanding law enforcement people and they don't do that.
[02:19:38]  And then the courts go and make rulings, then you're going to end up with this image of what the three of them have, which is this idea that this was one of the worst attacks in American history.
[02:19:47]  The courts have ruled everything the government did in this case is consistent with their long-standing view before January 6th that these groups are criminal groups.
[02:19:57]  They need to be criminalized.
[02:19:58]  Trump's movement is a threat to the United States.
[02:20:00]  And the entire part of January 6th was designed to define them as an insurrectionary movement so that they could criminalize them, which is exactly what they're doing.
[02:20:09]  890 Glenn Real Fish.
[02:20:11]  Oh, and 800.
[02:20:12]  They have the money for a criminal trial.
[02:20:14]  890 convictions are guilty, please.
[02:20:18]  Two acquittals, two.
[02:20:20]  890 to two.
[02:20:24]  How many of those were accused of violence?
[02:20:26]  Accessive insurrection.
[02:20:28]  170 or so were for violence.
[02:20:32]  A tiny, a tiny number, a small percentage of the colours.
[02:20:35]  And the Supreme Court, the Supreme Court is, and they should not be fired.
[02:20:39]  Let Glenn talk.
[02:20:40]  Go ahead.
[02:20:41]  Usually, what happens in the United States with nonviolent protesters or even with violent protesters is they don't get charged with anything.
[02:20:48]  A tiny percentage of people who use violence throughout all of the Black Lives Matter protests ended up in jail because the ideology in which they were protesting was one that was considered positive and friendly by the institutions of authority.
[02:21:02]  They were on the side of Black Lives Matter.
[02:21:03]  They didn't prosecute that.
[02:21:05]  The Trump movement and the right-wing extremists, as the government calls them, are considered enemies of the state.
[02:21:10]  And that was why the entire law enforcement mechanisms were distorted.
[02:21:13]  If you want to actually make these-Let me just back up Glenn briefly and I'll shut up.
[02:21:16]  Let me finish.
[02:21:17]  I'll take a five-minute break.
[02:21:18]  One second.
[02:21:18]  Let me finish.
[02:21:19]  It's not the same to compare Black Lives Matter protesters and protesters who entered the Capitol building during the certification of the election.
[02:21:28]  Those are not.
[02:21:29]  That's a game that's not.
[02:21:30]  Democrats have bombed the U.S. Capitol.
[02:21:32]  Democrats have bombed it.
[02:21:34]  Burned down police stations.
[02:21:36]  And they had within them people who were insurrectionary.
[02:21:38]  They were charged as they should have.
[02:21:40]  They got charged.
[02:21:41]  Barely any of them got charged.
[02:21:42]  There were plenty of them that were charged.
[02:21:44]  I don't care if there's plenty of them that were charged.
[02:21:46]  I'll just say one thing.
[02:21:47]  I'm going to say one thing.
[02:21:48]  I'm going to take a break here.
[02:21:48]  Yeah, we're actually all going to be taking a short five minutes.
[02:21:50]  No, I'm going to go to an apartment.
[02:21:52]  I'm just going to say this right now.
[02:21:54]  Ladies and gentlemen, we saw billions of dollars of stuff burned down.
[02:21:58]  We saw all the killings, and we never said all Democrats are involved in that.
[02:22:02]  Biden gave a speech yesterday that was hit large, in my view, literally saying everyone in D.C. was a terrorist.
[02:22:08]  They're all bad.
[02:22:09]  You can't vote for Trump.
[02:22:11]  We're taking him out the ballot.
[02:22:12]  America's going into martial law to stop him.
[02:22:16]  Our republic is in danger.
[02:22:17]  I got the transcript right here.
[02:22:18]  Yeah.
[02:22:20]  Everyone in D.C. is a terrorist.
[02:22:21]  That's a Biden direct quote.
[02:22:22]  Is that Hunter Biden or Joe Biden?
[02:22:24]  I know you love Hunter, but the point is, this was a hysterical diatribe.
[02:22:29]  This is dangerous.
[02:22:31]  So, Alex, what if instead of the Capitol is a White House and there's thousands of people at the White House fence and they pushed through the fence?
[02:22:39]  Do you think those people deserve more of a criminal penalty than people that were rioting in, I don't know, L.A.?
[02:22:48]  No, I mean, if it turns out they were under the directive of a foreign power, it was just a bunch of Americans.
[02:22:54]  Do they kill a cop?
[02:22:55]  It's the crime document.
[02:22:56]  If a bunch of Americans, when Trump was in the White House, stormed the White House fence guns with weapons and Ashley Babbitt got shot?
[02:23:04]  No, Millie.
[02:23:04]  Millie shot Ashley Guard.
[02:23:06]  The Trump supporters shot Ashley Babbitt.
[02:23:08]  They made it past the fence, and they were at the doors of the White House.
[02:23:12]  Do you think that they would act?
[02:23:14]  When Trump asked for the National Guard to stop that, Millie said no.
[02:23:17]  Trump didn't ask for the National Guard.
[02:23:18]  He didn't ask for the National Guard.
[02:23:19]  Millie's on record saying I threatened to resign.
[02:23:25]  That wasn't January 6th.
[02:23:26]  That was weeks easily.
[02:23:28]  Yeah, but nobody specifically was actually did anybody cross police barricades into the White House to the United States.
[02:23:35]  No, what I saw was the police, after a little bit of a fight, opened the doors and wave people in.
[02:23:41]  They didn't wave people in.
[02:23:42]  Oh, my God.
[02:23:43]  Everybody, get the fuck out of this.
[02:23:44]  What?
[02:23:45]  There's one clip out of 40,000 hours.
[02:23:48]  There's hundreds.
[02:23:49]  There's no hundreds of clips of people waving people through the door.
[02:23:52]  What I saw were people breaking the windows, climbing through broken windows, unlocking multiple doors and letting other people in.
[02:23:59]  Once in, police were forced to basically de-escalate the situation and make sure that the Congress people were protected.
[02:24:07]  At that point, they were outnumbered 10 to 1, the Capitol Police, to the rioters.
[02:24:11]  At that point, those videos where they're walking alongside people, they're funneling them into the city.
[02:24:16]  I was there.
[02:24:17]  I was there.
[02:24:18]  You weren't in the Capitol, and I give you credit for that.
[02:24:21]  You knew when to turn around.
[02:24:22]  The Wall Street Journal said I was cowardly on top of a car commanding people to invade.
[02:24:27]  But thank God, Jack Poseyvic, because I didn't have a Twitter then, put the video out of me saying, don't go in.
[02:24:32]  I got there in the middle of it.
[02:24:33]  Man.
[02:24:34]  I'm glad you did.
[02:24:35]  And you made the right decision.
[02:24:36]  You're there with 300,000 people.
[02:24:37]  It's a million in town.
[02:24:39]  And they don't even know what's happening from.
[02:24:40]  They're being guided in.
[02:24:41]  A lot of those innocent people that just walked to the Capitol have been sent to prison.
[02:24:45]  All right, we're going to take a, well, actually, we're not going to be taking a break.
[02:24:49]  You might be.
[02:24:49]  But I want to ask you guys, talking about these people in prison, these prison sentences.
[02:24:52]  So we're going to, I want to talk to you briefly about if you think these prison sentences that some of these people are getting are justified or not.
[02:24:58]  And then we're going to be taking questions from the audience from Zero Hedge Premium.
[02:25:02]  So if you haven't, sign up at ZeroHedge.com, sign up for the Premium Service, and you may be able to get a question before we wrap.
[02:25:08]  But what do you guys think?
[02:25:09]  I mean, let me start with you, Darren, because I haven't heard from you.
[02:25:12]  By the way, I don't want to wrap.
[02:25:13]  I mean, I say take a break.
[02:25:15]  A lot of people are tuning in now.
[02:25:17]  I'll keep having this debate all day long.
[02:25:18]  Yeah, we might keep going.
[02:25:19]  But Darren, what do you think about the prison sentences in general that these people have been getting?
[02:25:23]  I think they're completely overblown.
[02:25:25]  And they're, you know, it's consistent with what we're talking about, this amplification of January 6th into this false domestic terrorist act.
[02:25:35]  And, you know, the stakes.
[02:25:36]  What are the stakes involved?
[02:25:38]  The reason it's being amplified in this fashion is to justify the further weaponization of the national security apparatus against Trump supporters and to suppress the energies associated with Trump's movement.

=== $10 Trillion War on Domestic Threats (04:58) ===

[02:25:50]  Therefore, you have these crazy sentencings.
[02:25:52]  I think they're all crazy.
[02:25:54]  Even those top sentences for the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers, 20 years, 18 years, it's simply insane when you think about, you know, again, all of it has to be comparative.
[02:26:06]  There are people guilty of murder who get less prison time.
[02:26:10]  And the self-described, self-professed posture of the DOJ in the immediate aftermath of January 6th is one of shock and awe, which ominously but kind of unwittingly, accurately recalls the Iraq war and the war on terror.
[02:26:29]  This is not an accident.
[02:26:31]  It's very fitting that the Department of Homeland Security is the tip of the spear when it comes to this repurposing of the national security apparatus.
[02:26:40]  It was the Department of Homeland Security that said white supremacy is the number one national security threat.
[02:26:45]  And by white supremacy, they mean Trump.
[02:26:48]  All of these people have also said January 6th was a white supremacist insurrection.
[02:26:54]  Hillary Clinton has said that MAGA is a white supremacist slogan.
[02:26:58]  So that helps to contextualize and clarify what they mean when they say white supremacy is the number one national security threat.
[02:27:08]  And so basically, these people, even the people who committed illegal acts, are in effect political prisoners because of the political context of these prosecutions, which are vastly overblown and could only make sense within this political context of the weaponization, not only of the national security state, but unfortunately now, also the legal apparatus.
[02:27:32]  And let's go on the line with Glenn again and then all you guys.
[02:27:34]  But I just want to say something.
[02:27:36]  This is important, folks.
[02:27:38]  In June of 2021, Biden put out a national security memorandum, which you just mentioned, saying right-wing extremism is the number one threat.
[02:27:47]  Then he defined that as white supremacism and then said, questioning open borders, questioning elections, questioning lockdowns, questioning four shots.
[02:27:55]  That's in the report.
[02:27:56]  I've shown it hundreds of times on air.
[02:27:58]  Literally declaring the people enemy.
[02:28:00]  Then he gives a speech with this red background with Marines.
[02:28:03]  I thought I was watching Adolf Hitler.
[02:28:05]  And then yesterday he gives a speech and saying, they're taking over.
[02:28:08]  They're a danger.
[02:28:09]  We're at war all off a riot at the Capitol.
[02:28:12]  At best, it's a riot and obviously provocateur.
[02:28:15]  So this is a branding of 80 million voters plus as a political enemy.
[02:28:21]  This is extremely totalitarian, extremely dangerous.
[02:28:25]  And I was there.
[02:28:27]  I know.
[02:28:27]  You're in a crowd of hundreds of thousands.
[02:28:30]  Tear gas is coming down.
[02:28:32]  You can't even see what's happening at the Capitol.
[02:28:34]  You're saying, don't go in there.
[02:28:35]  We've got a stage.
[02:28:36]  I go there.
[02:28:37]  There's a stage.
[02:28:38]  No one there.
[02:28:39]  I mean, we were set up.
[02:28:41]  And I was set up.
[02:28:42]  And thank God that I waited 30, 40 minutes.
[02:28:45]  I didn't know what to do.
[02:28:46]  I was like, this is weird.
[02:28:46]  How do I lead a crowd that's already left?
[02:28:49]  I was there.
[02:28:51]  And so all I'm saying is this is not the basis to indict populist Americans and say they're terrorists.
[02:29:02]  And if the U.S. government spent the equivalent of $10 trillion, they spent a trillion in Afghanistan of real current numbers.
[02:29:09]  But the estimates now are $10 trillion in current dollars in Vietnam.
[02:29:12]  And the Vietnamese wouldn't give up.
[02:29:14]  So Swallowswell says, we'll use F-16s.
[02:29:16]  We'll just kill Americans.
[02:29:17]  We'll take your guns.
[02:29:17]  F-16s don't take guns, folks.
[02:29:19]  I don't want a civil war.
[02:29:20]  I don't want violence.
[02:29:22]  But the entire deep state couldn't defeat the Vietnamese.
[02:29:25]  And now they want a war with the American people while they have one with Russia and while they have one with China.
[02:29:32]  This is madness.
[02:29:34]  It needs to stop.
[02:29:35]  I don't want a war with Democrats.
[02:29:36]  I don't want civil war.
[02:29:38]  I don't have some dream of this, but this is the election strategy of Joe Biden is civil war.
[02:29:47]  Glenn, did you want to say something?
[02:29:49]  Yeah, I just, I think this is really the nub of everything.
[02:29:51]  Like, I really do think that the three of them actually believe what they're saying about like actually realizing this.
[02:29:57]  And the reason they believe it is because they don't know the history of the war on terror.
[02:30:01]  They don't know the history of the Cold War.
[02:30:03]  They don't know what the CIA and the FBI and the U.S. security state have been constructed to do and the role that they played in our domestic politics.
[02:30:10]  Every single time that there's some new crisis, the CIA, the FBI, the permanent power faction in Washington, and it's not like some crazy conspiracy theory.
[02:30:18]  Dwight Eisenhower warned a bit on his way out of the presidency in 1961 when he called it the military industrial complex because he had seen how it was growing beyond all democratic accountability.

=== Nonviolent January 6ers (15:36) ===

[02:30:29]  Every time what they need to do is convince somebody to be scared of something, to be scared of communism, to be scared of terrorism, to be scared of domestic terrorism.
[02:30:37]  And they convince people that some minor event, relatively speaking, in the history of the threats to our country, like the 9-11 attack, which is a terrible thing, but they exaggerated wildly the threat of foreign terrorism to basically institute the Patriot Act and warrantless eavesdropping and all the things that turned our country more.
[02:30:55]  They're authoritarian.
[02:30:56]  They were announcing that before 9-11.
[02:30:58]  They used 9-11 to do it.
[02:30:59]  They were announcing before January 6th that they wanted to turn right-wing extremists into domestic terrorists.
[02:31:05]  And they used January 6th and this extremely inflated narrative about what it was.
[02:31:10]  It was a riot of out-of-control people, a few hundred of them, that they turned into an insurrection that they're now weaponizing the just system.
[02:31:19]  And they're creating a precedent.
[02:31:20]  I hope you guys understand this.
[02:31:22]  They're now taking a nonviolent protest.
[02:31:25]  Remember, most of the people charged in January 6th are charged with nonviolent protests.
[02:31:29]  And they've made it now so that they can charge those people with felonies and put them in prison for years.
[02:31:34]  That was the Q shaman.
[02:31:36]  Four years in prison for a nonviolent protest.
[02:31:38]  That's the precedent that you're endorsing with this narrative.
[02:31:41]  So Jacob Chansley got four years, but he served, I think, a year and a half.
[02:31:45]  But I do want to go back.
[02:31:47]  Stuart Rose Rose.
[02:31:50]  There are non-violent crimes.
[02:31:52]  Biggs, Stuart Rose, and Enrique Torreo.
[02:31:56]  They were sentenced to some of the harshest sentences out of all the January 6ers.
[02:32:01]  Who was the judge?
[02:32:02]  It was a Trump-appointed judge, Timothy Kelly.
[02:32:04]  Now, if you look at the worst convictions, the ones that received the largest sentences, 80% of them were actually under the sentencing guidelines.
[02:32:18]  80%.
[02:32:20]  These people didn't receive sentences that were any more harsh than anybody else in other crimes.
[02:32:28]  And these were people sentenced from a Trump judge, a Trump-appointed judge.
[02:32:34]  So you're all saying that, oh, the courts are rigged against conservatives or Trump supporters.
[02:32:41]  But these are Trump judges.
[02:32:42]  Many of these were Trump judges that actually charge these, not charge these people, but sentence these people.
[02:32:49]  I think that if we want to talk about knowing history and understanding history and contextualizing history, I think if we want to run with that argument, then we need to do real journalist work while we do it.
[02:32:58]  It's not enough to say the FBI or the CIA has done this 10, 20 years ago and then blindly assert it every single time it happens to fit whatever political narrative you want to tell.
[02:33:07]  If you want to tell a story, the person telling the story needs to find evidence to support it.
[02:33:11]  Sure, if you want to say the FBI or the CIA or any other domestic agency has been involved in spying on Americans and doing bad things, that's fine.
[02:33:18]  We all know that it's happened.
[02:33:19]  That doesn't mean that you don't have to find evidence in the future of it happening.
[02:33:22]  And so far, there is no evidence of it happening on January 6th.
[02:33:25]  As many times you want to throw around the follow politics before 2016 or whatever, well, we're in 2024 right now.
[02:33:31]  Find some information from today or find some information from January 6th to today.
[02:33:34]  It's not enough to just keep appealing to the past to pretend like that's going to do your homework for you and that somehow you can make all of these accusations without having any real evidence.
[02:33:41]  As far as this claim of like there are novel uses of charges or people don't do charges like this, as was said over here, like most of the sentences have been within sentencing guidelines.
[02:33:49]  A lot of these have been done with a Trump-appointed judge.
[02:33:52]  The idea that these charges are novel, that people don't face prosecution like this, there's some element of truth to that, but this is also a novel situation.
[02:33:59]  We have never had a president in the United States try to resist the peaceful transfer of power like this.
[02:34:03]  This has just never happened before.
[02:34:05]  And you can keep screaming about Hillary Clinton.
[02:34:07]  You can keep screaming about BLM all you want and talk about the blown-up fire stations in the congressional halls.
[02:34:11]  The reality is that none of those situations were like this one.
[02:34:14]  If you want to keep appealing to those and saying those people should have been charged with crimes, we agree they should have been charged with crimes.
[02:34:18]  But to even do the whataboutism, you have to already concede that you are wrong on all of the merits about the current people you're talking about.
[02:34:24]  Every single time we talk about Donald Trump and you go, well, what about when Hillary Clinton or Biden did it?
[02:34:28]  Oh, okay, then you admit that Trump did?
[02:34:29]  Because if you want to admit that Trump is guilty of every single thing that we've been accusing him of, which is what you're doing when you go, what about the other guy?
[02:34:35]  Because it seems like you're just trying to appeal to hypocrisy at that point rather than the fact of the matter, then do that.
[02:34:38]  Say, yeah, Trump did try to cite an insurrection.
[02:34:40]  Yeah, Trump did fail.
[02:34:42]  Yeah, it was a riot.
[02:34:42]  I don't know why you keep saying most of the peaceful.
[02:34:44]  No, don't ask me.
[02:34:45]  Let me finish my one point one time without being interrupted by you.
[02:34:48]  I came running back because you heard me talk.
[02:34:50]  You had to interrupt me.
[02:34:51]  I came running back at you.
[02:34:52]  I was so excited for it.
[02:34:53]  Okay.
[02:34:53]  I don't understand this rhetoric of mostly peaceful riot.
[02:34:56]  Yeah, it was mostly peaceful.
[02:34:58]  A lot of riots that have riot aspects don't have a lot of peaceful people there.
[02:35:01]  And a 10,000 riot.
[02:35:02]  It's not always 10,000 people riding.
[02:35:04]  It might just be 100 people riding or 1,000 people riding.
[02:35:06]  But the reality was, there was one event on January 6th at the Capitol building.
[02:35:10]  That event was a riot.
[02:35:12]  Okay, so let me just add some context here.
[02:35:14]  Well, they had three trials in Michigan, and one of them, it was a mistrial, and they let most of them off, another, and they finally got a few convicted.
[02:35:20]  It came out in court that the feds went and found a bunch of basically homeless potheads.
[02:35:25]  And just like Glenn was saying, the New York Times article, they were more accurate, 97% of Islamic plots were hatched by the FBI, including the First World Trade Center bombing.
[02:35:35]  And they admit all that.
[02:35:36]  And I've interviewed the people involved, Ahmad Salam, all of them, that knew they were into the bombing.
[02:35:40]  He came and said, why have I cooked a real bomb?
[02:35:41]  And they let it go forward.
[02:35:43]  With Whitmer, the same team involved in January 6th from the FBI went and set these people up.
[02:35:49]  And that came out in the mainstream news.
[02:35:51]  So we know they, this isn't, you guys were saying, we don't want to go back to 10 years ago.
[02:35:56]  You know, I've sat there for six, seven minutes, you know, out there smoking a cigarette while you're just going on and on and acting like you're being censored.
[02:36:02]  You're like, there's no example recently of them doing something corrupt or bad.
[02:36:06]  I never said that.
[02:36:07]  It's great.
[02:36:07]  Find evidence.
[02:36:09]  I said, find JSON.
[02:36:12]  You said you can use that.
[02:36:13]  No, Description.
[02:36:14]  This is a great point.
[02:36:14]  This is a great point that Alex is making.
[02:36:16]  You don't need to go back to the original war on terror.
[02:36:21]  You don't need to go back to the ample antecedents that exist going way back into our nation's history.
[02:36:28]  Just go back to the Michenkin case.
[02:36:30]  And the parallels to January 6th are striking.
[02:36:33]  Look, almost half of the so-called plotters turned out to be either informants or federal agents.
[02:36:40]  One of those federal agents had to recuse himself from the trial because he beat his wife on the way home from.
[02:36:46]  The swinger party.
[02:36:47]  Swinger party.
[02:36:48]  The second one had to recuse himself because he was moonlighting in his private security firm and leaking details of investigations in which he was involved.
[02:36:57]  But in every single, it wasn't just that there were informants.
[02:37:00]  Every active step instrumental to this so-called plot was undertaken by one of the informants or one of the agents.
[02:37:08]  One of the informants, as I mentioned, him, Steve Robeson, in the context of does the government ever burn its own informants almost all the time.
[02:37:16]  How many of the BLM riots were instigated by FBI?
[02:37:19]  What?
[02:37:19]  How many of the BLM riots were instigated by our own intelligence agencies?
[02:37:23]  Well, they had agents in there.
[02:37:24]  In fact, one of the guys, Sullivan, one of the guys, Jake Sullivan, he had a very complicated relationship.
[02:37:31]  Antifa basically excluded him because of his relationship with the government and they thought he was a fed.
[02:37:37]  Absolutely, the feds infiltrate BLM.
[02:37:40]  They got excluded because of his relationship with the government.
[02:37:42]  He got excluded because that guy was insane because he was screaming at people to do all sorts of violent stuff constantly.
[02:37:46]  Nobody wanted to be around him.
[02:37:48]  And at some point, they thought he was a fed.
[02:37:50]  In the Capitol saying, I told you we were going to stage it.
[02:37:53]  I told you it was going to happen.
[02:37:54]  But again, for Sullivan, there's no evidence of Sullivan communication.
[02:37:57]  You talk more about it.
[02:37:59]  These guys haven't talked to him.
[02:38:00]  Why is it that when BLM, BLM pro-rioters, I guess you could say, aren't arrested as much as you want?
[02:38:09]  Like, you know, you say the January 6ers were arrested at a much higher rate than the rioters.
[02:38:14]  That's true.
[02:38:15]  Okay.
[02:38:15]  How come you don't say that?
[02:38:17]  And much more property damage as a result of that.
[02:38:19]  So here's the thing, though.
[02:38:21]  Why don't you accuse those who aren't prosecuted for those riots of being federal agents?
[02:38:27]  Well, in some cases, they probably are, but at that scale, it's hard to.
[02:38:31]  They just have more there.
[02:38:32]  How do you know?
[02:38:33]  If you want to go conspiracy theory, I mean, let's touch all the bases.
[02:38:37]  But I mean, Michigan is on record.
[02:38:40]  Can I interject?
[02:38:41]  First, the idea, again, that for the FBI to be infiltrating these groups is a conspiracy theory.
[02:38:48]  Again, it requires an understanding of the FBI that's childlike.
[02:38:52]  And what Destiny was saying before is, oh, we're just using what they've done in the past and therefore concluding they must be doing that in the future.
[02:38:58]  He just ignored all the evidence we've been presenting for the last two hours, including the fact that the FBI, by their own admission, had informants in all three of the leading groups that organized January 6th and were talking to informants on the ground at the Capitol on that.
[02:39:12]  Who is the head of the FBI?
[02:39:14]  Who's the head of the FBI?
[02:39:18]  As far as the January 6th defendants are concerned, it is true that they're getting sentences similar to what people get when they're charged with felonies.
[02:39:27]  The point is that it is insane that nonviolent protesters are being charged with felonies in the United States.
[02:39:33]  That is what never happens.
[02:39:35]  And pointing to Black Lives Matter is not to say, oh, yeah, that's what about isn't.
[02:39:40]  So we're admitting that this was an insurrection and that is too.
[02:39:43]  The point is that what the government is doing, if you look at the disparate treatment between the two, is picking and choosing which movement they like ideologically and politically and which they don't and punishing much more severely the one that they don't, which is what January 6th is about.
[02:39:57]  So wait a minute.
[02:39:59]  In the Capitol building, going into the Capitol building with weapons saying, hang Mike Pence, hang Mike Pence.
[02:40:05]  No, that's not a violent crime, but are you saying that that doesn't warrant a felony conviction?
[02:40:09]  That's absurd.
[02:40:11]  Let me say something.
[02:40:12]  They weren't calling for the hanging.
[02:40:15]  I'm going to be honest.
[02:40:16]  I'm going to be honest.
[02:40:17]  No, no, Alex, hold on one second.
[02:40:19]  The majority of people who were charged with felonies in January 6th are non-violent.
[02:40:25]  What did they do, Glenn?
[02:40:26]  What did they do?
[02:40:27]  In interpretation of the law, they created an interpretation of the law that was enacted after Enron that was designed to criminalize accountants from obstructing fraud.
[02:40:36]  What did they do?
[02:40:37]  Every meaning of it to mean that if it's a non-violent protein, any non-violent protest now at the Capitol, you're charged with the felony.
[02:40:44]  You're glossing in six months sentences.
[02:40:48]  People get six months sentences.
[02:40:50]  Hold on, I've had to say that.
[02:40:51]  I don't want to respond to that.
[02:40:52]  People get six months' sentences for going in the damn thing, being waived in by police.
[02:40:57]  No, that's on record.
[02:40:59]  Here's the facts.
[02:41:00]  The people who got the felonies were either violent, they were taking part in a conspiracy, or they went into the House chamber.
[02:41:07]  Those are the people who got it.
[02:41:08]  The people who walked into the Capitol.
[02:41:10]  That's not true.
[02:41:10]  It is true.
[02:41:11]  No, it's not.
[02:41:12]  It absolutely is true.
[02:41:12]  I just gave you a specific example earlier.
[02:41:15]  One or two.
[02:41:16]  Give me an example.
[02:41:17]  What did he do?
[02:41:18]  Thomas Caldwell.
[02:41:19]  He was not violent, and he did not go into the Capitol.
[02:41:22]  Oh, what's wrong with you?
[02:41:25]  What was his conviction?
[02:41:26]  What was his conviction?
[02:41:27]  Look at Caldwell's convictions.
[02:41:28]  Let's talk about it.
[02:41:29]  Talk about Thomas Caldwell for a minute.
[02:41:33]  To Glenn's point, keep in mind that when you're saying that BLM wasn't treated the same because of the government and how they went, you're not just alleging the federal government at that point.
[02:41:39]  You're alleging every single state government and city municipality that's in charge of arresting people are all on the same page.
[02:41:46]  In terms of unfairness, wait, the feds are in charge of prosecuting everybody in every state.
[02:41:51]  Thomas Caldwell was part of the sedition.
[02:41:53]  That's just conspiracy.
[02:41:55]  He was part of the conspiracy by the oathkeeper.
[02:41:57]  Let Glenn come in and then I want to hear about it.
[02:41:58]  I was charged with a felony.
[02:42:00]  Go for it, Glenn.
[02:42:01]  When Black Lives Matter happened, every single blue state mayor and every single blue state governor weighed in on the side of the writers because they were petrified of being demonized as being racist that they didn't support everything the Black Lives Matter movement did.
[02:42:14]  So yes, the Black Lives Matter movement had corporations sponsoring them.
[02:42:18]  They had Kamala Harris urging and raising money for people to get out of prison who were imprisoned and prosecuted for having engaged in violence as part of the Black Lives Matter movement.
[02:42:27]  The entire establishment was on the side of the Black Lives Matter movement.
[02:42:31]  The entire establishment hated the January 6th defendants.
[02:42:34]  That's the reality of our government that you don't understand.
[02:42:38]  The reality of our government that you don't understand.
[02:42:40]  No, no, the reality of our government that you don't understand is that police orders don't come down from the federal government or even from the governors.
[02:42:47]  Policing is done at the municipal level.
[02:42:49]  The idea that governors are dictating the BLM rights are not all federally prosecuted.
[02:42:53]  These are state crimes that are happening within state.
[02:42:54]  They're getting a bunch of money.
[02:42:57]  The idea that the governors themselves, the governors are dictating, the governors themselves are dwindling the policing policies to all of these different departments.
[02:43:05]  Where's the evidence of any of that?
[02:43:06]  When is the one message, one email, one memorandum, one thing saying, don't arrest protesters, don't convict them.
[02:43:12]  Not a single shred of evidence.
[02:43:14]  How much do you love the police state?
[02:43:15]  Why are you such a bad person?
[02:43:17]  Isn't that weird?
[02:43:18]  Why the most police state?
[02:43:21]  They got arrested by George W. Bush against the United States.
[02:43:23]  Why are we forgetting something?
[02:43:24]  We're forgetting one thing, and that is that you can commit a crime.
[02:43:28]  You can commit a felony, and it doesn't have to be violent.
[02:43:31]  There's plenty of felonies on the books that aren't violent, including breaking into a federal building, breaking through police lines, and going into that federal building and going into the Senate chamber as Congress people are trying to certify an election.
[02:43:49]  How is that going over your head, Glenn?
[02:43:50]  Let me ask you this.
[02:43:51]  I'm asking you this and everybody.
[02:43:52]  Please answer my question.
[02:43:54]  Is this as bad as Pearl Harbor or is this as bad as 9-11?
[02:43:58]  And all I'm telling you is, is this Biden announcement currently in the way that they're not going to be able to do that?
[02:44:06]  The number one threat is the Trump supporters, and Trump must be taken off the ballot.
[02:44:11]  You can punt to the Supreme Court, but they're literally trying to preclude Americans from voting for who they want.
[02:44:16]  That's the election theft in our face.
[02:44:19]  Why do we had to keep going back to the city?
[02:44:20]  Yeah, that's the third time that question was asked and unanswered.
[02:44:23]  Yeah, who cares?
[02:44:24]  I want to go take somebody off the ballot.
[02:44:26]  I want to talk about Tommy.
[02:44:27]  Thomas Caldwell, and Darren, maybe you can answer this.
[02:44:29]  Who is he?
[02:44:29]  What did he do exactly?
[02:44:30]  And what was he charged with?
[02:44:31]  Seditious conspiracy.
[02:44:32]  We didn't need to get into that so extensively.
[02:44:35]  I was just saying, here is somebody who is not violent, who did not go into the Capitol, who is charged with obstruction of an official proceeding.
[02:44:43]  Seditious conspiracy.
[02:44:44]  Well, there was later a superseding indictment.
[02:44:46]  That's a felony he was charged with.
[02:44:49]  The entire campaign is January 6th.
[02:44:51]  Not inflation, not war with Russia, not open borders.
[02:44:55]  I mean, give me a break, man.
[02:44:56]  We had a million plus people there.
[02:44:58]  A few people got in fights with the cops, and you act like it's the biggest thing since it's a pretty big deal when a president tries to overturn a legitimate election.
[02:45:07]  That's a really big deal.
[02:45:09]  You had all your investigations and you lost every single one.
[02:45:12]  When you lose in court, you go to the next stage.
[02:45:15]  You keep it.
[02:45:16]  Remember, remember in 2016 when all the conservatives said, well, you know what?
[02:45:21]  If we would have lost the election, you know what we would have done the next day?
[02:45:23]  We would have went to work.
[02:45:24]  Well, here you are four years later, still crying about the outcome of the election.
[02:45:27]  So if Biden's going to win by landslide, why are the Democrats don't want him on the ballot?
[02:45:34]  Can I just say what my dream is?
[02:45:35]  My dream is that Ed and Brian and Destiny have to actually live through a real coup so that they can then come back to the set and be like, oh my God, you know what?

=== Presence Of Mind (15:59) ===

[02:45:44]  I'm so sorry for saying that what happened in the Capitol for three hours against the most militarized and powerful government to ever exist in human history got anywhere near a coup or an insurrection.
[02:45:54]  A coup or an insurrection.
[02:45:56]  Let me say this, Josh.
[02:45:57]  Shut up.
[02:45:58]  I will leave for 10 minutes.
[02:45:59]  I will leave.
[02:46:00]  Let me ask this one question to Glenn.
[02:46:01]  I want you all to answer this.
[02:46:02]  Humor me.
[02:46:03]  I agree.
[02:46:04]  Because Glenn is a really great writer.
[02:46:06]  I really respect him.
[02:46:06]  I've followed for decades.
[02:46:08]  Can everyone describe a coup to me?
[02:46:10]  Because usually it's helicopters taking over media, killing the opposition, troops, and then you're claiming women with American flags and being waved in by police as a coup.
[02:46:20]  So define to me, all of you first, and then Glenn, and then the professor, what is a coup?
[02:46:27]  Since this was the most devastating evil coup ever.
[02:46:29]  A coup is going to enact a scheme to try to circumvent the peaceful transfer of power.
[02:46:34]  Like Retro.
[02:46:35]  No, they didn't take any action.
[02:46:38]  Try to remove him on a line.
[02:46:40]  There's nothing illegal done there to try and remove the intelligence agencies censoring the official dossiers.
[02:46:46]  Oh, that was illegal.
[02:46:47]  That dossier was saying his election wasn't legitimate.
[02:46:51]  Did they try to remove and they took it to the system?
[02:46:53]  Wait, wait, wait, wait.
[02:46:54]  Hold on.
[02:46:54]  You admit then that Trump tried a coup and you think Rushgate was also a coup then?
[02:46:57]  Do you want to do that?
[02:46:58]  Because you know what about it?
[02:46:59]  No, I don't.
[02:46:59]  I don't agree.
[02:47:00]  Trump is.
[02:47:01]  I'm asking.
[02:47:02]  Wait, wait, fight you.
[02:47:05]  Do you know about playing?
[02:47:07]  Do you know about Hitler?
[02:47:08]  You know about the merits.
[02:47:09]  Do you know about the coup?
[02:47:11]  Fight on the merits.
[02:47:12]  Why don't you fight on the merits?
[02:47:14]  Instead of doing the whataboutism without even owning that Trump did something wrong.
[02:47:17]  No, no, no.
[02:47:17]  Focus on Trump.
[02:47:18]  Define me a coup.
[02:47:19]  I just did.
[02:47:20]  Did you not listen to it?
[02:47:21]  No, no.
[02:47:21]  Glenn Reek.
[02:47:22]  Let's start with Glenn Greenwald.
[02:47:24]  Glenn, you're a well-respected journalist.
[02:47:26]  You look at this around the world.
[02:47:28]  What do they usually look like?
[02:47:30]  I know.
[02:47:31]  No, Destiny is now the incredible giant of journalism and the constitutional scholar.
[02:47:35]  I used to be, as Destiny said.
[02:47:36]  But anyway, a coup is generally when people in power or people who are trying to get into power marshal the force of the armed factions of that country and use it to eliminate the legal process and take over.
[02:47:48]  So, for example, if Trump had called in the military on his side on January 6th, or he had gotten the military to block people from trying to remove him from office on January 20th, that is always what we say is a coup.
[02:47:59]  Nothing that looks like what happened on January 6th.
[02:48:01]  The other thing I just want to correct, Destiny seems to have this like debate-me sort of thing point that he thinks he keeps making that's so smart, which is when you're talking about the same thing.
[02:48:08]  Why did you waste so much time on caddy comments?
[02:48:10]  There must be something better for him to say.
[02:48:12]  You're the one to throw in line.
[02:48:14]  That's better for him to say.
[02:48:15]  We're about to change gears.
[02:48:16]  Let Glenn finish this thought, and then we're moving to our audience questions.
[02:48:19]  Has done this little debate tactic like eight times.
[02:48:21]  I've listened to it for two hours.
[02:48:23]  So if you say this person did this and it's wrong, and then someone else says, What about this person, this politician you love?
[02:48:30]  He did the same thing.
[02:48:31]  Destiny says, Oh, you're admitting that both of them did something wrong.
[02:48:34]  No, one of the reasons why you say things like the Black Lives Matter protest was never considered an insurrection is not to say that January 6th was also an insurrection and therefore you should treat the Black Lives Matter one like an insurrection.
[02:48:47]  The point is to say the Black Lives Matter wasn't treated like an insurrection because people like Ed and Destiny and Brian love the Black Lives Matter movement because it's unaligned with their ideology.
[02:48:58]  These are liberals who hate the Trump movement politically and therefore want to criminalize it.
[02:49:02]  But pointing to other examples, I'm against all rioting, just to be clear.
[02:49:06]  Isn't it admitting that the one that you start with is wrong?
[02:49:10]  You're just trying to show that you're not applying consistent principles when your ideal issue.
[02:49:15]  If that was the case, then when you're accused of defending a coup, then you argue why it's not a coup.
[02:49:20]  That's how the argument works.
[02:49:21]  If somebody says, I think that Trump engaged in a coup, one of the ways that you show that it's not a coup is by saying that the things that you like that are done that are far more insurrectionary are things you won't call an insurrection because those things done to advance.
[02:49:34]  Glenn, I'm sorry.
[02:49:35]  No, Glenn, that's called an appeal to hypocrisy.
[02:49:37]  The way that you argue against something being a coup you actually believe what you say is that it's not a problem.
[02:49:41]  Why has Trump not been charged with it?
[02:49:43]  Why have they not charged Trump with insurrection?
[02:49:46]  You just said.
[02:49:47]  Smith already said why.
[02:49:48]  Go read some of his documents.
[02:49:49]  Secretary of State says he's guilty.
[02:49:52]  If he doesn't think it is a coup, if you don't think it's a coup, then we agree on what the definition of a coup is.
[02:49:56]  If we don't agree on the definition of a coup, which you said it requires military presence, I don't know if that idea said.
[02:50:01]  All right.
[02:50:01]  Well, it's not going to get resolved tonight, although we have tried to resolve it.
[02:50:05]  Why do we shut this down?
[02:50:06]  I'll go.
[02:50:06]  We're not shutting down.
[02:50:07]  We're just moving to the next phase of the organization.
[02:50:11]  And Glenn finished his point.
[02:50:13]  Actually, we're going to comments.
[02:50:14]  I think this is.
[02:50:15]  If you want to shut it down, that's fine.
[02:50:16]  I do want to shut it down.
[02:50:17]  I want to move on.
[02:50:18]  As I said, he's been instructed to move on.
[02:50:20]  So that's what we're doing.
[02:50:20]  By who?
[02:50:21]  By who?
[02:50:22]  By the producers of the show.
[02:50:24]  Let's move on.
[02:50:25]  Zerohedge.com.
[02:50:27]  I mean, we can, if you guys want to go in circles and yell over each other for another 10 minutes, I don't want to do it.
[02:50:32]  I want to go to these comments.
[02:50:33]  I bet it was a 6'3 Marine ex-Marine that told you to do that.
[02:50:36]  Thanks, dude.
[02:50:37]  Thanks.
[02:50:37]  Shut it down.
[02:50:38]  No, but I mean, listen, listen.
[02:50:39]  This is the heart of it.
[02:50:41]  Coups are militaries seizing the telecommunications and the government institutions and killing their opposition.
[02:50:47]  You could do live.
[02:50:49]  Trump did not do that.
[02:50:51]  A bunch of fucking people being led into the Capitol is not a freaking coup, man.
[02:50:55]  Have an electronic.
[02:50:57]  But let's go on.
[02:50:58]  These are from ZeroHedge.com from some of the premium users of the website have sent in some of the questions.
[02:51:02]  This one's actually a question for what they call the blue team, which right now is going to be the three of you guys, Ed, Brian, and Stephen.
[02:51:08]  The question is: The New York Times acknowledged that they were FBI informants in the Capitol on January 6th, and then they give a link to the New York Times article.
[02:51:16]  Given the agency's history of entrapment, is it a stretch that some agents may have provoked the riot?
[02:51:22]  And then there's a follow-up question.
[02:51:24]  Why was law enforcement so ill-prepared for the insurrection in quotes despite the presence of informants?
[02:51:30]  So the first question, first part of the question is: is it a stretch that some agents may have provoked the riot?
[02:51:36]  So informants are something the FBI has been using for years, decades.
[02:51:40]  Is it illegal?
[02:51:41]  No.
[02:51:42]  They can do it as long as they do it within the legal means.
[02:51:46]  If an informant is in the Capitol breaking the law, that doesn't mean that the FBI is behind it.
[02:51:52]  Informants are also people who live their lives.
[02:51:55]  Like I could be an informant for the FBI.
[02:51:57]  I could go and murder somebody.
[02:51:58]  That doesn't mean the FBI had me murder that person.
[02:52:01]  So I think there's a lot of misinformation there that gets conflated with facts.
[02:52:07]  And number two, do I think it's possible that an FBI agent could have done that?
[02:52:13]  Sure.
[02:52:13]  Anything's possible, but it put out the evidence.
[02:52:16]  There isn't evidence of this.
[02:52:17]  The whole Ray Epps thing.
[02:52:19]  Show us the evidence that he actually.
[02:52:21]  He inorchrated it.
[02:52:22]  He just said I orchestrated it.
[02:52:24]  I robbed the bank.
[02:52:24]  Come arrest me.
[02:52:25]  Should I get arrested?
[02:52:26]  I just said I wrote it.
[02:52:27]  You're right.
[02:52:27]  You said orchestrated.
[02:52:28]  Did Ray Epps say that he was an FBI agent?
[02:52:31]  You guys are just coming to the bank.
[02:52:32]  I'm not saying he orchestrated it.
[02:52:34]  If I had to guess, that's the Southern Property Law Center.
[02:52:36]  If Ray Epps set them up, why isn't a single other person there attested to that?
[02:52:40]  Out of this.
[02:52:41]  If he whispering into people's ears, if he was leading breach teams, why didn't any of the arresters?
[02:52:45]  Why didn't a single person come out?
[02:52:47]  I'm asking why.
[02:52:47]  I'm asking this, though, the next reasonable question.
[02:52:49]  Why doesn't a single person come out of testing?
[02:52:51]  Because we exposed him because he's the leader there and he's there doing it.
[02:52:56]  He did it on video.
[02:52:57]  He said, I led this.
[02:52:58]  I did this.
[02:52:59]  You're not answering my question.
[02:53:00]  I'm saying, why should anyone else come out?
[02:53:02]  I attested to this.
[02:53:03]  Not a single person.
[02:53:04]  You know what an orchestra is, right?
[02:53:07]  I went to school for music.
[02:53:08]  The conductor leads the symphony.
[02:53:11]  And all the musicians have to see the conductor and would tell you, that's why.
[02:53:13]  He says go into the Capitol.
[02:53:15]  Why doesn't anybody else have signs in there?
[02:53:17]  That was my conductor.
[02:53:18]  You know, the follow-up part of this question, why was Law, how do you guys think law enforcement was so ill-prepared for the insurrection, again in quotes, despite the presence of informants?
[02:53:26]  This is from Space Worm, just so you know, Space Worm from Zero Hedge.
[02:53:29]  Well, half of them were sent away for crowd control.
[02:53:31]  I think the ill-preparedness came because Trump's deployment of the National Guard in the past, especially in D.C., had caused a lot of people to be uncomfortable with National Guard being present in the Capitol when the certification of what was happening.
[02:53:42]  So as they were having conversations prior to establishing security, I think they took a lot of extraordinary bureaucratic measures to make it so that I think that day, if the National Guard was going to be deployed, it either had to be, I think, Miller or Walker.
[02:53:54]  I think one of those two had to be direct authorization.
[02:53:56]  Let me respond briefly.
[02:53:58]  Which is not the same thing.
[02:53:59]  We have to go that way.
[02:54:00]  Let me one hour ago saying Trump never called for National Guard and you just said they refused it.
[02:54:07]  I got your ass.
[02:54:09]  You got me.
[02:54:09]  You got me.
[02:54:09]  Yes, that's correct.
[02:54:10]  You got it.
[02:54:11]  So when the National Guard was deployed, the only area that they blocked it.
[02:54:16]  They blocked Trump.
[02:54:17]  You just admitted Trump wanted it, didn't you?
[02:54:20]  You got me.
[02:54:21]  They only deployed 340 people.
[02:54:25]  That's right.
[02:54:25]  You got me.
[02:54:25]  Got him.
[02:54:26]  That's right.
[02:54:27]  The scope of the mission.
[02:54:28]  The scope of the mission.
[02:54:30]  Rhetoric like this is why Ashley Babbitt got shot.
[02:54:32]  You realize that, right?
[02:54:33]  No, people like Ashley Babbitt died because of people like you driving people onto this, right?
[02:54:36]  It might be funny for you.
[02:54:37]  I don't know if it's a problem.
[02:54:38]  I'm murdered Ashley Babbitt.
[02:54:39]  You're more or less responsible with this kind of talk.
[02:54:41]  Yes.
[02:54:41]  Oh, my God.
[02:54:42]  I'm murdering.
[02:54:43]  Yes.
[02:54:43]  Play in a factual world.
[02:54:44]  You love the factual world.
[02:54:45]  You love the fact that you're going to be able to do that.
[02:54:47]  You said an hour ago.
[02:54:49]  You said an hour ago that Trump never asked for National Guard.
[02:54:52]  I can show 50 articles.
[02:54:53]  It's on record.
[02:54:54]  I said that you just admitted it.
[02:54:56]  Gotcha.
[02:54:56]  Gotcha.
[02:54:57]  Guys, guys.
[02:55:00]  So here people were authorized to be there.
[02:55:03]  And I actually called themselves.
[02:55:06]  It was an extraordinary process.
[02:55:07]  When you read the J6 Committee in the Situation Boom and Sunned and everybody else complaining, where's the National Guard?
[02:55:11]  Where's the National Guard?
[02:55:12]  There was a whole bunch of stupid bureaucratic red tape and optics concerns that people had to cut through to get them there.
[02:55:16]  So you believe the official story and like the 15 to 20 people on Tommy.
[02:55:20]  He said Trump never won National Guard.
[02:55:22]  Now Trump wanted it, but he didn't get it for a good reason.
[02:55:28]  So you're claiming that this is staged.
[02:55:31]  You're claiming the FBI was behind it.
[02:55:34]  In 2019, you said.
[02:55:36]  Why the Dolphin Tompkins?
[02:55:37]  Huh?
[02:55:37]  No.
[02:55:38]  You specifically said, I almost had like a form of psychosis where I thought everything was staged.
[02:55:46]  So do you still have that psychosis?
[02:55:47]  Well, I said almost a form.
[02:55:50]  So she almost still had that form.
[02:55:52]  Let me quote it for you.
[02:55:54]  That's out of a larger context about when you're lied to.
[02:55:56]  In a court deposition.
[02:55:58]  I said a larger context.
[02:56:00]  About Sandy Hook.
[02:56:01]  Which is a larger deposit.
[02:56:03]  You said you called Sandy Hooks a hoax and you said it was fake because of this.
[02:56:07]  Sure.
[02:56:07]  So you let me talk now?
[02:56:08]  Okay, go ahead.
[02:56:09]  Yeah.
[02:56:10]  So I said a larger context, which is a larger five-hour, eight-hour deposition, right?
[02:56:14]  So I just told the truth.
[02:56:15]  I said a larger context.
[02:56:17]  I'm explaining that the public's been lied to so much, there's a major loss in confidence where people then don't believe anything they're told, and that's dangerous.
[02:56:25]  That's not what you said.
[02:56:25]  That's not the context you said.
[02:56:27]  That's not the context you said.
[02:56:29]  I know what I said.
[02:56:30]  I read it.
[02:56:30]  I read the deposition.
[02:56:31]  So put the full thing out.
[02:56:32]  I don't have it with me, but I read it.
[02:56:34]  The point is stop.
[02:56:35]  Google it.
[02:56:36]  You're scared to let me talk?
[02:56:37]  Oh, go ahead.
[02:56:38]  So, so, so that's a whole other PR firm thing, things out of context to blow that stuff up.
[02:56:45]  The PR firm is telling you what to say in court.
[02:56:47]  No, no, you're not.
[02:56:47]  You're not.
[02:56:48]  You gotta let Alex finish the short question.
[02:56:50]  I want to go back to the user's question.
[02:56:53]  Madeline Albright told Leslie Stoll of 60 Minutes, I ordered 500,000 children killed because I thought it was a good thing to do.
[02:57:00]  I'd do it again.
[02:57:01]  She's a great person.
[02:57:02]  I question Jesse Smollett.
[02:57:04]  I question WDs in Iraq.
[02:57:06]  I question everything.
[02:57:07]  And I'm proud of everything I've done.
[02:57:08]  And all that stuff is PR firm garbage.
[02:57:10]  When I talk about the general public, because the media lies about almost everything, loses trust in anything, that creates a general form of psychosis and is very dangerous.
[02:57:22]  I talk about that every day on my show.
[02:57:24]  And Joe Rogan just last week said, you know, Alex Jones isn't totally right, but he means to be right.
[02:57:30]  He's more informative than CNN.
[02:57:33]  They lie on purpose.
[02:57:35]  And the public has lost trust in the system.
[02:57:37]  That's dangerous.
[02:57:39]  What do you do?
[02:57:40]  So that was the full discussion.
[02:57:43]  Let me give you another example.
[02:57:44]  They say in court, Jones in a custody battle said, I'm an actor.
[02:57:49]  Everything I say is fake.
[02:57:50]  I've offered a $1 million reward for that.
[02:57:52]  I didn't say that.
[02:57:53]  They wanted to put, like now, a 15-year-old video.
[02:57:56]  Back then it was like a nine-year-old video of me as the joker saying all these horrible things.
[02:58:02]  Take drugs, kids.
[02:58:03]  You'll die.
[02:58:04]  It's great.
[02:58:04]  So kids wouldn't take drugs.
[02:58:06]  It's reverse psychology.
[02:58:07]  And hold on, hold on.
[02:58:08]  They wanted to introduce that in court.
[02:58:10]  And my lawyer said, when Jack Nicholson plays the Joker, he's not really the Joker.
[02:58:16]  And when Alex Jones is in Waking Life or Scanner Darkly or any of this stuff, when he's being an actor, it's not what he really means.
[02:58:27]  Are you being an actor now?
[02:58:28]  No, no, see.
[02:58:29]  How do we know?
[02:58:30]  How do you know?
[02:58:31]  Maybe you still have psychosis.
[02:58:32]  But see, that's the game you're playing.
[02:58:34]  No, I'm not playing a game.
[02:58:35]  I'm serious.
[02:58:35]  I am not.
[02:58:36]  This is a serious problem.
[02:58:37]  No, when I'm on this show, this is Alex Jones, the analyst, Alex Jones, the pundit.
[02:58:42]  Alex Jones will get to you in a moment.
[02:58:45]  Yeah, Glenn's about to jump in.
[02:58:48]  This game that I don't mean when I say, Raya said I orchestrated it.
[02:58:52]  That's a real thing.
[02:58:54]  Yeah, we're all playing a sort of character right now.
[02:58:55]  We're all on a stage.
[02:58:56]  I was actually in that Twitter space with you with Elon Musk.
[02:58:59]  What was it?
[02:59:01]  Four weeks ago or so?
[02:59:02]  And you tried to claim that you didn't push the Sandy Hook conspiracy theory.
[02:59:08]  Excuse me.
[02:59:09]  We're getting a field here.
[02:59:10]  I'm basing this on the whole psychosis thing.
[02:59:13]  This is a field.
[02:59:15]  This is not in the scope of the discussion.
[02:59:17]  Yeah, we really got to stick to this question.
[02:59:19]  I'm just on the user's question.
[02:59:21]  You lied in that space.
[02:59:22]  You did push it.
[02:59:23]  You did say that it was fake.
[02:59:25]  You did.
[02:59:26]  I have the quote right here.
[02:59:27]  Let me read the quote.
[02:59:29]  Okay.
[02:59:30]  Ed, we're done.
[02:59:30]  We're done.
[02:59:31]  Glenn, I want to hear from Glenn.
[02:59:32]  Glenn's about to speak.
[02:59:34]  But I got to say this right now.
[02:59:35]  Let me finish.
[02:59:37]  I said in the context of everything I've done, I wasn't the platform for questioning a school shooting.
[02:59:43]  They dredged that up afterwards, and I barely ever talked about it.
[02:59:46]  It was even on a radar.
[02:59:47]  But you said it was fake.
[02:59:49]  No, no, if I'm on the air.
[02:59:50]  You said after examining it for a year, you found that it was fake.
[02:59:55]  All right, you know what?
[02:59:56]  That's it.
[02:59:57]  That's it.
[02:59:58]  We're done with this fucking conversation.
[02:59:59]  We're moving on to the user questions.
[03:00:01]  As told, Glenn, you had something to say?
[03:00:04]  Glenn, please speak.
[03:00:05]  Well, first of all, I want to say that we are out of time here because it's been three hours, but I did just want to say I do think that attack on Alex is a bullshit attack.
[03:00:12]  We are here because we want to talk about January 6th.
[03:00:14]  We want to talk about whether and to try and make it about Alex when there are six people here presenting all kinds of evidence that you're not equipped to deal with, I think it's just a pathetic way to try and end this debate.
[03:00:27]  And the last thing I want to say is it's really given like a kind of amazingly vivid mindset into the minds of Trump era liberals who have really come to see the U.S. security state and the courts and prosecutors as their political allies in their war that they're waging against people who disagree with them.
[03:00:44]  And they have this like very romanticized view of what the FBI is, what the DOJ is, how the court systems work, how the federal government works.
[03:00:52]  And all of this reveals this so well because what's happening here is so manifest, which is that all of these agencies are being abused because the Trump movement is considered the gravest threat to establishment power in this country, which is why the bipartisan establishment is against it.
[03:01:07]  To try and make this about Alex and Sandy Hook is a really pathetic way to end the debate.
[03:01:11]  I think you guys have done a good job defending your views.
[03:01:14]  I think you should leave it at that.
[03:01:15]  And we definitely have to go because it's been three hours.
[03:01:18]  Well, we're not done.
[03:01:19]  We're going to keep talking with some questions.
[03:01:21]  No, no, no, not right now.
[03:01:22]  Can I answer the user's question?
[03:01:23]  Yeah, I would love to, but give me one second.
[03:01:25]  The only reason I scream is because I don't have a mute button for the people right now.

=== Regurgitated Conversations (02:21) ===

[03:01:29]  I would prefer not to have to use my voice.
[03:01:31]  I think she did a great job being cut.
[03:01:33]  I really don't know.
[03:01:38]  Absolutely closing comment.
[03:01:39]  All I'm trying to say is I didn't launch any wars.
[03:01:41]  I didn't lie about WMDs.
[03:01:44]  And to bring that in is a point to it, though.
[03:01:48]  His point was just that if you were lying about that or if you had psychosis about that, how do we know that that's not coming about half the show we talked about?
[03:01:59]  I did not say I had psychosis.
[03:02:01]  Half of the show, we talked about feds.
[03:02:03]  And you talked to, if you look at the full clip of the transcript, I said there's a group, there's a larger lie when we're lied to and lose trust.
[03:02:12]  Then out of that, when no one knows what's true, it creates a lot of problems.
[03:02:16]  So the reason I went back to that is because in that Twitter space, you said that you didn't push it.
[03:02:22]  You said that you just regurgitated other people's information.
[03:02:27]  And that's not true.
[03:02:28]  No, that's not true.
[03:02:29]  I want to shut this down.
[03:02:30]  That's on to the next thing.
[03:02:31]  It's not that I'm scared of this.
[03:02:32]  I'm sick of it.
[03:02:32]  No, no, no.
[03:02:33]  I didn't have my bones on this.
[03:02:35]  I barely ever talked about that.
[03:02:36]  I just wanted to explain 22 minutes in these court cases over a decade.
[03:02:42]  22 minutes, dude.
[03:02:43]  No, I didn't.
[03:02:44]  That's not what I'm doing.
[03:02:46]  You guys bring it up.
[03:02:47]  And fine.
[03:02:48]  Hey, Madeline Albright said she killed 500,000 kids.
[03:02:51]  She'd do it again.
[03:02:51]  I killed no kids.
[03:02:53]  Come on, guys.
[03:02:55]  Let's talk about what the people are paying attention.
[03:02:58]  We have some legitimate people.
[03:02:59]  I know, but Glenn says he wants to leave.
[03:03:01]  I love Glenn Rainwald.
[03:03:03]  No one's gone.
[03:03:03]  Let's go.
[03:03:06]  Okay, we're going to the second question.
[03:03:07]  Darren, did you want to follow up on that?
[03:03:08]  I wanted to answer the user's question about the lack of preparation because it involves a lot more than the question of the National Guard.
[03:03:16]  For additional context, there's the Norfolk memo coming out of the Norfolk office of the FBI, extensively cataloging threats to the Capitol, including maps of tunnels, all kinds of indications that there was going to be a major event at the Capitol on that day.

=== Government Infiltration Exposed (13:34) ===

[03:03:37]  There was extensive government infiltration of every single militia group imputed to January 6th.
[03:03:44]  And it was a standard.
[03:03:45]  Wait, wait, wait.
[03:03:46]  Up to the very, very highest levels.
[03:03:49]  We know that Enrique Tario had an extensive conversation with the head of Metro PD Intel.
[03:03:58]  And that's just one example.
[03:03:59]  We know the VP of the Oath Keepers was an FBI informant.
[03:04:04]  We know there are at least eight other informants in the Proud Boys, including informants who are texting their handlers simultaneously as they were in the Capitol and as the events unfolded.
[03:04:16]  We know of the oathkeeper Jeremy Brown, who has been attacked and persecuted by the government.
[03:04:21]  Why?
[03:04:22]  Because when he was approached by JTTF agents in December of 2020 to recruit him as an informant, he recorded the exchange and the encounter and put it out there on the internet.
[03:04:37]  The JTTF agents said, there's something going to happen in January.
[03:04:41]  We want you to be an informant for us.
[03:04:43]  We know that there were several influencers, including Milo, who parlored or whatever the tweet version is for Parler, put out a message on January 5th saying, I was just approached by federal agents.
[03:04:57]  Whatever they have planned on the 6th is huge.
[03:05:00]  Don't go there.
[03:05:01]  That's just a number of examples.
[03:05:04]  Oh, yeah.
[03:05:04]  And there was Donnell Harvin.
[03:05:07]  He was the head of the Homeland Security Office for the DC Fusion Center.
[03:05:11]  His predictions were remarkably specific and accurate.
[03:05:15]  His office came up with the idea that we need to have body bags.
[03:05:21]  We need to focus on the Capitol at one o'clock.
[03:05:25]  Specifically, we need to be concerned with explosives planted on side streets that could serve a diversionary effect, therefore allowing for an attack on the Capitol.
[03:05:36]  These are just some of the highlights of examples of the government being in a position to know in advance what was going on.
[03:05:44]  And it wasn't just that there was an ordinary level of security at the Capitol, which is inconceivable when you think of the fact that there was a major proceeding there, that Trump was there giving a speech.
[03:05:54]  Ordinarily, there would be threat assessments, which there weren't.
[03:05:58]  It's not just that there was an ordinary level of security.
[03:06:01]  There is a uniquely absent security on that day, uniquely poor security on a day with a major certification proceeding on a day in which President Trump was there to give a major speech on a very controversial question directly pertinent to that proceeding.
[03:06:18]  So, Darren, there's 1,250 people who were indicted thus far.
[03:06:23]  How many of them brought up as evidence in court that they were enticed or led into the building or led to do crimes by federal agents?
[03:06:35]  there are actually quite a few.
[03:06:36]  How many of those?
[03:06:38]  I would count them, but it's not.
[03:06:40]  But was any of that evidence actually admitted in court?
[03:06:44]  In some cases, yes.
[03:06:46]  As you can imagine, as you can imagine, the judicial process is very aggressive in pushing against any types of entrapment defenses.
[03:06:55]  And many defense lawyers, in some cases, reasonably so, want to dissuade their clients from entrapment-type defenses because their goal is not to uncover the truth about entrapment.
[03:07:06]  Their goal is to do the best for their clients in those specific cases.
[03:07:11]  So out of 1,250 cases, not one of those defenses were actually pushed forward by anyone.
[03:07:18]  No, I didn't say not one.
[03:07:20]  There are some, but not as many as you would think, but not because this isn't relevant to the truth, but because if you're a lawyer, even a good faith lawyer, you are required to give advice to your client that's not, oh, what's most likely to uncover the full truth about the broad event of January 6th, but what's most likely to keep my client out of jail or to minimize the time the government is.
[03:07:44]  I like the truth as exculpatory.
[03:07:46]  Right.
[03:07:47]  I would think that evidence that a federal agent led you to commit a crime or acted in a way that made you want to commit a crime would be pretty exculpatory evidence right there.
[03:08:00]  Yeah, it would in certain cases.
[03:08:02]  And like I said, there are people who are pursuing that.
[03:08:05]  There is a significant backlash to that within the judicial system.
[03:08:09]  So even given how much it's rigged now, it's additionally rigged when it comes to those specific types of defenses because they're so subversive to the larger narrative that the government's trying to promote.
[03:08:20]  Why wouldn't McCarthy put any Republicans on the J6 committee then and investigate this?
[03:08:24]  Well, McCarthy isn't exactly someone who's aggressively interested in pursuing the truth on this either.
[03:08:30]  Okay, why not everybody?
[03:08:31]  Why not appoint like a special counsel or appoint something separate then from Congress?
[03:08:36]  Well, I think that would be a fantastic idea.
[03:08:38]  Why didn't Trump do it?
[03:08:39]  Why didn't Trump do it?
[03:08:40]  Trump's not in a position to do it right now.
[03:08:42]  Yeah, but right after J6, before he gets kicked out, why not appoint Trump?
[03:08:44]  Well, I mean, why not on the days before if he thinks that there's not a really window of opportunity for that to happen?
[03:08:51]  A lot of other stuff is going on.
[03:08:52]  But doesn't it suck then that you can provide absolutely no smoking?
[03:08:57]  I've provided a ton of evidence.
[03:08:59]  No smoking guns.
[03:09:00]  I've provided overwhelming evidence.
[03:09:01]  I have not provided evidence for anything.
[03:09:03]  Overwhelming guns.
[03:09:04]  You've given a lot of stories, and now you've got an escape for every single way that you might actually discover what happened.
[03:09:09]  Congress would never long accountable.
[03:09:12]  I've been long a proponent for an investigative committee, but not the sham J6 committee.
[03:09:16]  Well, they tried.
[03:09:17]  They tried to.
[03:09:17]  No, the J6 committee is totally shamed.
[03:09:19]  Why is the J6 committee a sham?
[03:09:21]  Well, do you really want to hear a good faith answer to that?
[03:09:23]  Why it's partisan?
[03:09:24]  Well, let's start with Benny Thompson.
[03:09:26]  Now.
[03:09:27]  No, no, I know the people on it were all partisan.
[03:09:30]  That's true.
[03:09:30]  But that's because McCarthy, but that's because McCarthy wouldn't put forth his nominees after Pelosi said no to two of five.
[03:09:37]  Well, first of all, those two should have been allowed.
[03:09:40]  I'm not asking you that.
[03:09:41]  I'm asking why didn't McCarthy put forth two other ones?
[03:09:43]  Because he didn't want to legitimize a process that was totally illegitimate.
[03:09:48]  So how convenient for you then that now we can also say the entire J6 committee is not going to be available.
[03:09:52]  No, it's not convenient.
[03:09:53]  It's not convenient for anyone.
[03:09:54]  None of the evidence we can point to.
[03:09:55]  It's not even convenient for the regime.
[03:09:57]  It's convenient for the regime not to have a legitimate and disinterested fact-finding commission to truly get to the bottom of the real questions that matter in relation to January 6th.
[03:10:09]  But there is no disinterested fact-finding.
[03:10:10]  You guys say Comey was biased, even though he was a lifelong Republican.
[03:10:13]  You say Raffensperger was biased, even though he's a lifelong Republican.
[03:10:16]  You guys say that Barr was biased, even though he's been a lifelong Trump supporter and a republic.
[03:10:21]  Yeah, you say Ray is biased.
[03:10:22]  Like every single person you can point.
[03:10:24]  Yeah, so then there are no unbiased fact-finding commissions.
[03:10:26]  I don't say there are none, but the specific names you mentioned, absolutely.
[03:10:30]  How about William Barr?
[03:10:31]  How about you hire people, right?
[03:10:38]  Well, I didn't say that's not my contention here.
[03:10:40]  Who would be able to investigate this?
[03:10:44]  I think there are some people who could.
[03:10:46]  I think Jim Jordan, who could.
[03:10:47]  Jim Jordan would be your example of an unbiased party.
[03:10:50]  Jim Jordan was literally part of the investigation.
[03:10:53]  I would say for there to be a legitimate committee, it would have to include people who are genuinely interested in pursuing not only the questions that Benny Thompson and the hyper-partisan Democrats wanted to find out, but people who are sympathetic to the other side who would be willing to pursue the questions that I've raised and have been raised that were not addressed at all in the Republicans.
[03:11:15]  But the Republicans.
[03:11:16]  Because all they were interested in was demonizing Trump and setting up a criminal proceeding for Trump.
[03:11:22]  They weren't interested in getting to the bottom of the questions, why was there uniquely poor security?
[03:11:26]  What was going on with the level of federal infiltration?
[03:11:29]  These questions are all asked as part of the 847-page report.
[03:11:32]  I invite you to read it at some point.
[03:11:34]  The reality is that McCarthy at any point could have put five Republicans that he chose on that committee.
[03:11:40]  But because Nancy Pelosi said no to two of them, I think Banks and Jordan, that were actively being investigated or would have been the subjects of the J6 committee, he said no to anything.
[03:11:49]  And now we get to say it was all a sham, even though the majority of the people interviewed were Republicans, even though, as was stated earlier, every single person.
[03:11:56]  I'm talking a lot on the Republican issue, but it shouldn't be a surprise to you.
[03:12:01]  Many Republicans' institutional apparatus of the party is not necessarily friendly to Trump.
[03:12:09]  Can I talk to Trump?
[03:12:11]  If every single person in government, if every Republican, if every Democrat, if every judge, if every person in the United States that is in Trump's peripheral ends up hating Trump or not wanting to work with Trump, at what point do you say at what point you are going to be?
[03:12:29]  At what point do you just say that?
[03:12:31]  Maybe the problem, you can't just run back in your coming off, okay?
[03:12:34]  At what point can we not say maybe Trump was actually genuinely a horrible person, or maybe Trump actually genuinely tried to circumvent legal processes in order to coup the government, or at least whatever you would call him asking Pence to unilaterally elected.
[03:12:49]  About January 6th.
[03:12:50]  It should be the number one campaign issue.
[03:12:52]  Wow, not inflation, not open borders, not human smuggling.
[03:12:55]  Could a president try to circumvent the peaceful transfer of power for the first time in U.S. history?
[03:12:58]  This actually takes me to the next question.
[03:12:59]  This is going to be our final question.
[03:13:00]  No, Trump's not being evicted of anything.
[03:13:02]  This is a question from Fred C. And the question is, will Destiny address, quote, is white supremacy the biggest domestic threat faced by the United States?
[03:13:11]  And I open it up to the panel after you give an answer there, Stephen.
[03:13:15]  Domestic threat?
[03:13:16]  I don't know how the FBI judges domestic threat.
[03:13:18]  It wouldn't surprise me if there's a lot of crossover with white supremacy groups and then being organized like a domestic threat.
[03:13:23]  But my guess would be domestic threats in the U.S. is probably fairly low to the total security of the U.S. So I don't really care that much about it.
[03:13:28]  But that's the official policy is white supremacism is number one threat.
[03:13:32]  What is that?
[03:13:32]  That's not a policy.
[03:13:33]  That's a statement.
[03:13:34]  No, that's an executive order in June of 2021 put out by the negative policy choices or what are the bad things that are happening because of that declaration.
[03:13:44]  They try to skew crime numbers.
[03:13:46]  They say everything is that.
[03:13:48]  I mean, this is like a major thing.
[03:13:50]  Skew crime numbers, say everything is that.
[03:13:52]  What do you mean?
[03:13:53]  Do we not count crime by black people anymore?
[03:13:55]  Didn't we just get all of the crime states?
[03:13:57]  The NIST says the number one crime is white people.
[03:13:59]  They say the number one crime is white people.
[03:14:01]  But they do it statistically by manipulating the numbers, yeah.
[03:14:03]  I don't think the FBI is in charge of manipulating the people's people.
[03:14:06]  The FBI is not involved in crime statistics.
[03:14:08]  I didn't say involved in crime statistics.
[03:14:10]  I'm pretty sure you can go to the federal site that has like a family.
[03:14:13]  I don't believe you're like hiding under a rock somewhere.
[03:14:15]  You've got to know.
[03:14:16]  He gave a speech for an hour yesterday.
[03:14:18]  Yeah, but you know what?
[03:14:19]  Saying the MAGA people are terrorists and are about to take over.
[03:14:21]  I mean, you don't know.
[03:14:24]  He just said it's good that Biden is running on January 6th.
[03:14:27]  I think January 6th is a huge deal.
[03:14:29]  Yes.
[03:14:29]  The president trying to circumvent the peaceful transfer of power is a really big issue.
[03:14:33]  And that's why he can't be allowed to be voted for.
[03:14:36]  No, that's not why.
[03:14:37]  He's not allowed to be voted for.
[03:14:38]  Because section of the 14th Amendment says that if you have been a priority, they want to steal a lot of people and engage in rebellion.
[03:14:46]  We have to be clear about what's really happening.
[03:14:48]  The standard Democrat voter, these people don't care about the so-called insurrection.
[03:14:55]  That's not Biden's audience.
[03:14:57]  Biden's audience is to speak in support of this phony legal theory that's being served as a pretext to remove him from the ballots and therefore in the defense of Democrats.
[03:15:10]  I agree.
[03:15:10]  He's trying to rally the deep state saying Trump's going to persecute us and arrest us if we don't stop him because they've committed all these crimes.
[03:15:20]  So, I mean, fact is the Supreme Court's looking at it.
[03:15:22]  They actually decided to take the case.
[03:15:24]  So it doesn't matter what any of us think.
[03:15:26]  The Supreme Court's going to rule on it.
[03:15:28]  And I think, you know, whatever they decide is what we're going to end up with.
[03:15:31]  Let me ask this: what happens if Trump gets re-elected?
[03:15:33]  What do you mean, what happens?
[03:15:34]  Well, what do you think?
[03:15:35]  They've still got criminal investigations, criminal trials.
[03:15:38]  So you mean if he gets re-elected before being sentenced, if he is convicted?
[03:15:42]  Yeah.
[03:15:42]  I think he just takes over being president.
[03:15:45]  He'll pardon himself or give the presidency.
[03:15:47]  And I know he didn't persecute his political opposition when he was in.
[03:15:51]  I don't think he's going to try to do that.
[03:15:53]  He asked Barr to investigate Hillary.
[03:15:55]  I mean, quite the opposite.
[03:15:57]  Trump's own bureaucracies were undermining him.
[03:16:01]  Well, he is.
[03:16:02]  As far from him using the bureaucracies to go after others, his own bureaucracies were circumventing his own president.
[03:16:08]  Well, that happened with Biden as well, wasn't it?
[03:16:10]  But everyone can call me doing the investigation.
[03:16:14]  No?
[03:16:14]  Yeah, Hillary's emails.
[03:16:15]  Yeah, Hillary's emails was under Biden, right?
[03:16:17]  What about the Hunter Biden investigation?
[03:16:19]  There's no acknowledgement there?
[03:16:20]  Hunter Biden investigation.
[03:16:21]  That's.
[03:16:21]  Yeah, that's Biden's DOG.
[03:16:23]  Undervid.
[03:16:24]  He was charging.
[03:16:24]  He was convicted on the grind.
[03:16:26]  And that's because the Democrats want him to step down for new songs.
[03:16:28]  Oh my God.
[03:16:29]  There's a reason why.
[03:16:30]  Yeah.
[03:16:31]  There's always a reason.
[03:16:31]  So now the Democrats don't want Biden to step down.
[03:16:33]  That's wasted.
[03:16:34]  That's admitted.
[03:16:35]  That's what they are the Democrats.
[03:16:37]  The debate continues.
[03:16:38]  The dominant Democratic Party wants Biden to step down.
[03:16:40]  It's been all over the news.
[03:16:42]  And they're putting pressure on him to do it.
[03:16:43]  You're saying that's made up?
[03:16:45]  He's not going to step down.
[03:16:45]  That's all right.
[03:16:46]  How does he step down?
[03:16:47]  Because you still need to have a primary.
[03:16:49]  And it's past.
[03:16:51]  He's frozen out the other candidates in his primary.

=== Ladies And Gentlemen (02:26) ===

[03:16:53]  The deadline has passed.
[03:16:55]  So if he was to step down right now, Harris would likely be the nominee would be.
[03:17:02]  Well, it's too late for New York State.
[03:17:03]  I think he'd miss out on several states.
[03:17:05]  Go ahead.
[03:17:06]  We've really run.
[03:17:08]  Answered that question.
[03:17:09]  We really hammered that one right to the ground.
[03:17:11]  Ladies and gentlemen, tonight is coming to a close.
[03:17:14]  Zero Hedge, thank you so much for putting this debate on.
[03:17:16]  And everybody on the panel, man, Darren Beattie, Alex Jones, Steve Bonnell.
[03:17:21]  Prime President President in Glengreenwald.
[03:17:23]  Tell us about your show, what you do.
[03:17:25]  I'm the co-host of Timcast IRL on YouTube Monday through Friday, 8 p.m. Eastern Standard Time with Tim Poole.
[03:17:30]  It's a blast.
[03:17:31]  We talk about technology, politics, and culture.
[03:17:35]  Yep.
[03:17:36]  My website is revolver.news.
[03:17:38]  We broke a lot of these January 6th stories.
[03:17:40]  Take the challenge for yourself.
[03:17:41]  Go to revolver.news.
[03:17:42]  Look at the pieces, in particular, the Ray Epp series and the Pipe Bomb series.
[03:17:47]  Decide for yourself whether or not there's overwhelming evidence for federal involvement.
[03:17:52]  And then I do seven days a week, live on air, 11 a.m. to 3 p.m. weekdays.
[03:17:58]  Saturday, we do special reports every time.
[03:18:00]  Sundays, 4 to 6 p.m., Infowars.com, Ford slash show.
[03:18:04]  Now, Real Og Shown's back on what was Twitter now, X. And we're here.
[03:18:08]  We're fighting hard.
[03:18:09]  We're promoting freedom.
[03:18:11]  And we want everybody to tune in and see what we're doing.
[03:18:14]  Tell me about your day, Stephen.
[03:18:16]  What do you do?
[03:18:17]  Yeah, I'm on YouTube.
[03:18:18]  You know, you should check out the last few videos.
[03:18:19]  I do a lot of arguments over a lot of the goofy Ray Epps conspiracy theories or a lot of these J7 or J6 conspiracy theories.
[03:18:27]  I've been doing that.
[03:18:28]  YouTube.com/slash Destiny.
[03:18:29]  Yeah, check me out.
[03:18:30]  What about you, Bratton?
[03:18:32]  I'm on X, Krassenstein.
[03:18:34]  I do a lot of posts.
[03:18:35]  I guess you can't call them tweets anymore about politics.
[03:18:39]  I try to hear out both sides.
[03:18:41]  Alex, I still read your post.
[03:18:44]  Thank you.
[03:18:45]  Might not agree with him.
[03:18:47]  But I try to hear out both sides.
[03:18:49]  Give me feedback.
[03:18:51]  I like countering points.
[03:18:53]  I like listening.
[03:18:54]  No, I want to congratulate everybody for being here.
[03:18:55]  This has been a great debate.
[03:18:57]  Yeah.
[03:18:57]  Ed, and you on as well?
[03:18:59]  Yeah, pretty much everything Brian said.
[03:19:00]  Yeah, it has been great.
[03:19:02]  It has been spectacular.
[03:19:03]  High energy, fast-paced.

=== God Bless America (03:29) ===

[03:19:05]  It's intense.
[03:19:06]  The first time I've ever monitored a debate with five people, and then somebody on Coming In Digital, which has its own.
[03:19:11]  And if you want to see more of this, the great folks at Zero Hedge, like you said with their subscription service, they want to do more of this.
[03:19:19]  So this is the future.
[03:19:20]  People want this.
[03:19:21]  Zero Hedge debates all the way.
[03:19:22]  Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for coming.
[03:19:24]  Again, zerohedge.com.
[03:19:25]  Thanks for putting this on to everyone at Zero Hedge and everyone in the audience.
[03:19:28]  We love you.
[03:19:29]  I love you.
[03:19:30]  We'll see you later.
[03:19:31]  We're going to run an hour on January 6th on the M4C.
[03:19:35]  A peaceful protest.
[03:19:37]  Political violence is never, ever acceptable to the United States political system.
[03:19:42]  Never, never, never.
[03:19:44]  It has no place in a democracy.
[03:19:46]  None.
[03:19:48]  Give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country.
[03:19:54]  Let's start marching and I salute you all.
[03:19:56]  USA!
[03:20:00]  That's what happens when election lies are pushed through the media.
[03:20:03]  Who has the ultimate authority to deploy the National Guard?
[03:20:06]  The ultimate authority rests with Trump.
[03:20:08]  He saw people saying hang Mike Pence.
[03:20:10]  He was instigating violence against Mike Pence.
[03:20:12]  The U.S. Department of Homeland Security had already declared that the greatest threat to the U.S. homeland was not ISIS or al-Qaeda, but instead domestic extremists, far-right extremists, to be exact.
[03:20:23]  So let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue.
[03:20:26]  I want to thank you all.
[03:20:28]  God bless you and God bless America.
[03:20:32]  God bless America.
[03:21:02]  Political violence is never, ever acceptable to the United States political system.
[03:21:07]  Never, never, never.
[03:21:09]  It has no place in a democracy.
[03:21:11]  None.
[03:21:13]  Give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country.
[03:21:19]  Let's start marching.
[03:21:20]  I shall link you all.
[03:21:22]  USA!
[03:21:25]  That's what happens when election lies are pushed through the media.
[03:21:28]  Who has the ultimate authority to deploy the National Guard?
[03:21:31]  The ultimate authority rests with Trump.
[03:21:34]  He saw people saying hang Mike Pence.
[03:21:36]  He was instigating violence against Mike Pence.
[03:21:37]  The U.S. Department of Homeland Security had already declared that the greatest threat to the U.S. homeland was not ISIS or Al-Qaeda, but instead domestic extremists, far-right extremists, to be exact.
[03:21:48]  So let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue.
[03:21:52]  I want to thank you all.
[03:21:53]  God bless you and God bless America.
[03:21:57]  Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the second Zero Hedge Debate.
[03:22:19]  It is an honor and a privilege to be asked to moderate this debate.

=== Zero Hedge Debates (03:56) ===

[03:22:21]  I'm Ian Crossland.
[03:22:22]  I'm going to be moderating tonight.
[03:22:24]  And the debate tonight is going to be about January 6th, 2021.
[03:22:28]  Some things happened on that day, and we're going to be talking about them from start to finish as best as possible.
[03:22:32]  We have an incredible panel of human beings that I'm going to be introducing shortly.
[03:22:35]  But before I do, I want to talk a little bit about Zero Hedge, who's putting on the debate.
[03:22:39]  Zero Hedge was a company founded in 2009.
[03:22:40]  It's a libertarian, fiercely independent and counterculture news organization.
[03:22:45]  They are also, they have, on their website, they have a premium service that I want to talk about before we get started.
[03:22:50]  You can go to zerohedge.com and sign up for the premium service, bypassing the advertisements to get exclusive financial, economic, and geopolitical knowledge and data.
[03:22:59]  It's highly articulate information.
[03:23:02]  It's a great, really great organization.
[03:23:04]  And it also gives you access to the secret Twitter feed or the X feed, formerly known as Twitter.
[03:23:09]  What's up, Elon, in case you're listening, with market-moving financial advice, real-time updates.
[03:23:14]  It's a great service.
[03:23:15]  So you can go to ZeroHedge.com, sign up for the premium service and get started there.
[03:23:19]  And from there, we're going to jump into it.
[03:23:22]  I want to introduce our panel of incredible people, as I said earlier.
[03:23:25]  And I'm going to start from the end and give you guys a chance to introduce yourselves.
[03:23:27]  We have Ed Krasenstein.
[03:23:29]  Yeah, how's it going?
[03:23:30]  I'm Ed Krassenstein.
[03:23:31]  You know me on X at Ed Krassen, also the twin brother of Brian.
[03:23:37]  Thanks for pointing out that it's Krassenstein, not Krasenstein.
[03:23:40]  Well, it can actually be either.
[03:23:41]  You can do Krassenstein or Krasenstein, and I really don't care what you use.
[03:23:44]  It's Frankenstein, not Stein.
[03:23:46]  Or Frankenstein.
[03:23:48]  That was Alex Jones, if you didn't know.
[03:23:50]  We also have Brian Krasenstein.
[03:23:52]  Hey, Ian, it's great to be here.
[03:23:54]  I'm Brian Krassenstein, known as Krassenstein on X. Ed's slightly better looking and more intelligent twin brother.
[03:24:04]  And modest as well.
[03:24:05]  Probably the most modest of the Krasensteins.
[03:24:07]  Next to Brian, we have Stephen Bonnell, known as Destiny.
[03:24:11]  What's happening, man?
[03:24:12]  Hey, what's up?
[03:24:12]  You know me on YouTube at Destiny.
[03:24:14]  My real life name is Steven, and I scream and shout at people on the internet for a living.
[03:24:18]  Next to this dude, we got Alex Jones.
[03:24:21]  Alex, explain yourself.
[03:24:24]  Well, I don't think I probably needed much of an introduction, but I mean, I was there on January 6th, and I saw what happened.
[03:24:31]  And so it's a very important discussion we're about to have tonight.
[03:24:35]  I'm glad everybody came.
[03:24:36]  We need to have more of this, not just left and right, but just different groups of people debating and discussing.
[03:24:42]  I'm really glad that Zero Hedge and their great subscription service, people supporting it, is financing this.
[03:24:49]  And so you're going to see a lot more of this with people supporting Zero Hedge.
[03:24:52]  And so I'm just honored to be here with you guys in Austin, Texas.
[03:24:55]  Yeah, absolutely.
[03:24:56]  Shout out to Zero Hedge.
[03:24:57]  Great company.
[03:24:57]  Great people, too.
[03:24:58]  Really great people involved with the company.
[03:24:59]  And to your left, my right, Darren Beattie.
[03:25:01]  What's happening, man?
[03:25:03]  Great to be here.
[03:25:03]  Thank you.
[03:25:04]  I'm Darren Beattie.
[03:25:05]  I run a news site called Revolver.news, which is reported extensively on January 6th.
[03:25:10]  And you can also see me on X at DarrenJB.
[03:25:15]  And you're a Trump advisor and speechwriter.
[03:25:17]  Yes.
[03:25:17]  And a former professor.
[03:25:19]  And you help quarterback a lot of the groundbreaking stuff that Tucker Carlson put up.
[03:25:24]  Indeed.
[03:25:25]  So I'll send your prices insurance.
[03:25:26]  Thank you.
[03:25:26]  And we also have coming in remote live, Glenn Greenwald from your studio in Brazil.
[03:25:31]  What's happening, Glenn?
[03:25:33]  Hey, everybody.
[03:25:34]  Glenn Greenwald.
[03:25:35]  I'm a journalist.
[03:25:35]  I'm the host of System Update on Rumble.
[03:25:38]  I had planned to be there in person.
[03:25:40]  A little logistical problems intervened, and I wish I could be, but I'm really looking forward to participating.
[03:25:45]  And I just want to echo Alex.
[03:25:46]  I think what Zero Hedge is doing is so important, organizing these kind of substantive structured debates among people who obviously disagree pretty strongly on things and yet nonetheless can have what I hope will be a civil and spirited debate, what I expect it will be.
[03:25:58]  So I'm really looking forward to it and I appreciate being asked.

=== Was It an Insurrection? (02:46) ===

[03:26:01]  Yes, that is my job is to make sure that it maintains civility, structure, organization, and that we don't talk over each other, that we end up listening to each other.
[03:26:09]  The real value of humanity, one of the most powerful tools we have is communication.
[03:26:12]  So I think tonight's going to be an exemplary example of that.
[03:26:18]  Let's go.
[03:26:18]  Let's go for this.
[03:26:19]  The first question I got for you guys, and this is really for the entire panel.
[03:26:22]  And anyone that wants to start it off, maybe we can start with you, Edson, just because you're on the end and we can move around is January 6th, 2021.
[03:26:29]  Was it an insurrection?
[03:26:30]  And before you answer, before you answer, I want to read this.
[03:26:33]  This is actually what the, it's called 18 U.S. Code 2383, Rebellion or Insurrection.
[03:26:39]  Yeah, let me do an overhead shot.
[03:26:40]  This is right out of Cornell law here.
[03:26:42]  Excellent.
[03:26:42]  All right, I'm going to start reading this.
[03:26:44]  This is according to the U.S. Code.
[03:26:45]  Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 10 years or both and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
[03:27:03]  It technically doesn't define insurrection.
[03:27:06]  It's the code talking about what I guess what an insurrection is.
[03:27:10]  Of course, they use the word insurrection in the actual code itself.
[03:27:13]  But what do you think?
[03:27:13]  Do you guys think it was an insurrection?
[03:27:15]  So I personally believe it was an insurrection.
[03:27:19]  And I base that on the fact that 20 court decisions called it an insurrection.
[03:27:24]  And the fact that there was a bill passed in the Senate that called them a mob of insurrectionists.
[03:27:30]  I think the bill passed, or it was in the House of Representatives, 406 to 21.
[03:27:34]  That was a statute to award the police officers medals.
[03:27:38]  And it referred to these individuals as insurrectionists.
[03:27:42]  So, I mean, I think the term can be subjective.
[03:27:46]  I think, you know, people can say nobody was charged with violating section 2383 of Title 18, which is insurrection and rebellion statute.
[03:28:00]  And nobody was, right?
[03:28:01]  But I don't think that defines whether the event was an insurrection.
[03:28:06]  When I say insurrection, I don't mean everybody there was partaking in insurrection.
[03:28:12]  There were people who were peaceful, people who, the people who walked into the Capitol and did nothing, I don't think that they were insurrectionists.
[03:28:20]  I think they violated the law, but I don't think they were partaking in insurrection.
[03:28:24]  I do think the Proud Boys were partaking in insurrection.
[03:28:28]  I think you could say Donald Trump incited the insurrection.
[03:28:31]  I do.

=== Debate Manipulation Revealed (04:26) ===

[03:28:33]  Destiny, what do you think, man?
[03:28:35]  I would say the plot from start to finish is quite obviously an insurrection.
[03:28:39]  The only way to get around that is to either justify an insurrection, which is what most conservatives do.
[03:28:44]  They don't realize it, or to deny that an insurrection could ever happen.
[03:28:49]  Or if you're not aware of all the facts of what happened, I think that Donald Trump and his cronies had a very coherent plan that they tried to enact from start to finish, starting with false claims of voter fraud leading to false slates of electors that filed themselves as state electors under perjury, which is what they did, up to the violence that happened on the day of the, on the day of the certification of the vote, where Donald Trump and his friends continued to try to delay the peaceful transfer of power by contravening the certification of the Electoral College vote.
[03:29:17]  And I want to make sure that we don't force this into like what they want to call a debate, debate where you got to be wait to be called on or anything.
[03:29:24]  So if any of you guys, Glenn, you as well, man, if any of you guys want to jump in.
[03:29:28]  Yeah, two of them just went.
[03:29:30]  I want Glenn to go, but I just want to say something here.
[03:29:33]  I was there and I was investigated and subpoenaed by the Justice Department in at least five criminal investigations and I was forced to testify in front of the Jan 6 committee, which they've now been destroying their records because the records show the opposite of what they said.
[03:29:47]  Trump and all of us had a stage rented by the Supreme Court.
[03:29:51]  He was supposed to have another rally there.
[03:29:53]  We showed up.
[03:29:54]  Before Trump ever finished his speech, people were getting tear gassed and hit by bullets.
[03:29:59]  And there were a bunch of provocateurs leading an attack against the police and they broke through.
[03:30:03]  And then this million plus people then got blamed as insurrectionists.
[03:30:06]  And Biden gave a big speech yesterday saying they're all terrorists.
[03:30:09]  So by that extension, Kamala Harris as the VP candidate was bailing people out of jail that burned down police stations and firebombed federal buildings.
[03:30:20]  And the idea of Biden's speech yesterday, making his whole campaign about January 6th, saying political violence is never good.
[03:30:26]  The Democrats are the ones that call for political violence.
[03:30:28]  So I was there with a bullhorn, but I can only reach 100 yards out when the tear gas was hitting me saying, don't go in, don't fight the police.
[03:30:35]  This is a setup.
[03:30:36]  And we have hundreds of videos.
[03:30:38]  And so regardless of what the left tries to do, they're all out there of people taking off their antivased and putting on the Trump garb and the police fake arresting people attacking them and then high-fiving them.
[03:30:53]  I mean, this has all come out in the new footage.
[03:30:54]  And it's all given.
[03:30:55]  Were they fake arresting them?
[03:30:56]  How were they fake?
[03:30:57]  They would grab them and arrest them and then drag them in and then high-fi them, you know, take the handcuffs off and high-fi them.
[03:31:02]  Those videos, people are going to take everything I say, they're going to put it on X and show what I said.
[03:31:06]  That's where we dominate.
[03:31:08]  And so what I'm getting at here, let me just, let me tell you this.
[03:31:11]  What I'm getting at here is they now admit hundreds of federal officers were there.
[03:31:15]  So when Trump started his speech, this whole thing began with Ray Epps saying go into the Capitol.
[03:31:20]  He told the Jan 6 committee, yeah, it's true, it's in his text messages.
[03:31:24]  He told family, I orchestrated it.
[03:31:26]  So under pressure, they finally indicted him, but only recommends six months.
[03:31:29]  So a few hundred people got manipulated into fighting the police.
[03:31:33]  They were led and driven by provocateurs and other groups.
[03:31:36]  They were others, then they opened the doors and the police wave them in in hundreds of videos.
[03:31:40]  They walk through the velvet ropes and then they indict over a thousand people that just walked through velvet ropes.
[03:31:46]  And then now we're told in the National Security Directive of President Biden, the number one threat is the American people.
[03:31:52]  And he had a declaration of war yesterday against all Trump supporters that says to protect democracy, we're not going to let you vote for Trump.
[03:32:00]  So as Stalin said, I care not who casts the votes.
[03:32:02]  I care who counts them.
[03:32:03]  Well, Biden doesn't care who casts the votes.
[03:32:05]  He cares who's allowed on the ballot.
[03:32:08]  So we've already won.
[03:32:09]  No one's buying this.
[03:32:11]  And when this happened three years ago, the Wall Street Journal had a print of retraction, but they said I was there as a coward telling people to attack.
[03:32:18]  Well, no, they wouldn't let me put the video on Twitter before I was saying don't go in.
[03:32:23]  But the truth is it's coming out.
[03:32:26]  And so that's the bottom line here.
[03:32:29]  And this attempt by Biden to cast the American people as the enemy in all these movies about martial law and civil war and race war.
[03:32:37]  That's their only hope because the corrupt, evil Democratic Party, and its evil twin, the Republicans, they've lost power and populism is rising.

=== Ian's Insurrection Inquiry (09:07) ===

[03:32:48]  Quite frankly, this was not an insurrection.
[03:32:50]  It was an insurrection.
[03:32:50]  There would have been guns.
[03:32:51]  And it's in the Declaration of Independence that it's our right and duty to get rid of a government that's destructive of what the people want.
[03:32:58]  But I'm not calling for violence.
[03:33:00]  We're winning this politically, but we're being cast as about to be violent in the next 10 months because all these indictments and all these attacks to not let Americans vote for who they want aren't working and are backfiring.
[03:33:11]  And all the big Democrat lawyers now admit it.
[03:33:13]  Axel Rod admits it.
[03:33:15]  Carville admits it.
[03:33:17]  They all admit this attempt, like we're in Venezuela or something, to take Trump off the ballot when he's never been convicted of insurrection.
[03:33:24]  This is a military tribunal, U.S. code, from the Civil War.
[03:33:28]  If a military tribunal found you were guilty of being involved in insurrection, that meant after the war ended, can I ask you a question for us?
[03:33:37]  Can I ask you a question?
[03:33:38]  Yeah.
[03:33:38]  So do you think the Confederates during the Civil War were partaking in insurrection?
[03:33:47]  I mean, in retrospect, because I wasn't alive then, I think the South got manipulated into that.
[03:33:52]  I thought there was real issues between the North and South.
[03:33:54]  The abolitionists had a good point and slavery needed to end.
[03:33:58]  But it was really about the North out of the world.
[03:34:00]  So just to be clear, the person that's defending the J6 writers won't say that the Confederate states were engaged in insurrection.
[03:34:06]  Well, that's not what I see.
[03:34:08]  See, here's what happened to you.
[03:34:09]  Yes or no, no, no.
[03:34:11]  Hold on.
[03:34:11]  Hold on.
[03:34:12]  That's not true.
[03:34:13]  That's what it sounded like.
[03:34:14]  You said it.
[03:34:14]  Well, you break the record.
[03:34:15]  How do you think they were engaged in insurrection?
[03:34:16]  I was attempting to talk.
[03:34:18]  And the thing I said was, I think the South was wrong.
[03:34:21]  And then you just said, you just said that I support what the South did.
[03:34:27]  I didn't say you supported that.
[03:34:28]  I said that you said that they weren't engaged in insurrection.
[03:34:30]  Do you think the Confederate states were engaged in insurrection?
[03:34:32]  Was that because there were rebellions during Reconstruction at the end of the Civil War?
[03:34:37]  And they were saying if you lead an uprising against the Northern occupation of the South, you're precluded from running from office because they were worried about Southerners getting office again like Jefferson.
[03:34:48]  No, so no, I do not support the Civil War or slavery, and I'm not a, quote, Confederate.
[03:34:55]  My question is, was it an insurrection?
[03:34:57]  Yes or no?
[03:34:59]  No, no, no, no.
[03:35:00]  No, no.
[03:35:01]  The law, yes, I think that it was a civil war, and you could say an insurrection.
[03:35:05]  Okay, so is it insurrection?
[03:35:06]  Did anybody get charged with insurrection rebellion?
[03:35:09]  What I'm saying is...
[03:35:11]  Did anybody get it?
[03:35:12]  I'm not listening.
[03:35:12]  No, I'm asking you.
[03:35:13]  You just said it was an insurrection.
[03:35:14]  Did anybody get charged with violating the insurrection and rebellion statute?
[03:35:18]  Yes, people did.
[03:35:19]  You have to say that.
[03:35:19]  No, because there was no statute there.
[03:35:21]  That's my point.
[03:35:22]  No, the Trump found out.
[03:35:24]  You don't need to violate that statute in order to be partaking in insurrection because the Civil War was an insurrection.
[03:35:31]  And nobody got charged.
[03:35:33]  You're not listening.
[03:35:33]  No, that's what I'm saying.
[03:35:35]  That's my point, Alex.
[03:35:36]  You're changing the subject.
[03:35:38]  That's correct.
[03:35:39]  Democratic Party lawyers on CNN say you have to be convicted under the 14th Amendment of this before you can be.
[03:35:47]  You can't just because a congressional— You get convicted under Section 23.
[03:35:52]  You can't get 1993 of Title 18.
[03:35:54]  Let's slow down a little.
[03:35:55]  Let's slow down a little.
[03:35:56]  A congressional resolution to give awards to Capitol police is not a conviction of Donald Trump to remove him from the ballot.
[03:36:05]  He's been indicted for saying they stole an election.
[03:36:08]  So now they want to take him off the ballot so that you can vote for him, which is pure stealing of an election.
[03:36:15]  He's the Yankee Yankee.
[03:36:16]  He's not somebody in Georgia.
[03:36:18]  He's not Robert E. Lee.
[03:36:20]  This has nothing to do with that.
[03:36:21]  I know.
[03:36:22]  Also, as a quick subject, on the 14th Amendment, it doesn't require a conviction under such a thing.
[03:36:26]  I literally put it on the text on the screen.
[03:36:28]  There's no, it does not say needs to be convicted.
[03:36:30]  I guess we need to define the difference.
[03:36:32]  Alex, Alex, Alex.
[03:36:33]  One second, one second.
[03:36:34]  We need to define the difference between the casual term insurrection and the legal definition of insurrection.
[03:36:39]  Yes.
[03:36:39]  Well, there's another thing we need to talk about.
[03:36:42]  So, yes, there's the casual term.
[03:36:44]  There's the etymology of the term insurrection, which simply suggests a rising up.
[03:36:49]  So, by that definition, that could encompass a wide range of things.
[03:36:54]  Black Lives Matter.
[03:36:55]  Wait, wait, wait, wait.
[03:36:56]  So, there's a rising up.
[03:36:58]  Then there's the legal definition, but we have politically weaponized court systems.
[03:37:04]  So, that's not even, I think, a proper standard.
[03:37:06]  I think the proper standard is the sweep of a proper historical perspective.
[03:37:14]  Does the event of January 6th compare to the antecedent that we've been discussing, the Civil War?
[03:37:22]  So, if the question is, oh, is Civil War an insurrection?
[03:37:25]  My question is, is the scope and scale of the event of January 6th comparable to the Civil War?
[03:37:32]  Because Joe Biden has directly made this comparison, which I think is flatly ridiculous.
[03:37:37]  And that comparison has to be valid in order for these ridiculous Section 3 arguments to have any force or legitimacy.
[03:37:45]  And I think any common sense face.
[03:37:48]  It's a lie.
[03:37:49]  I'm going to shut up.
[03:37:49]  It's a lie on its face.
[03:37:51]  They say it's bigger than Pearl Harbor in 9-11.
[03:37:53]  That is bull.
[03:37:55]  So here, let me finish what Mike pointed out.
[03:37:58]  Yeah, do that.
[03:37:58]  And then I want to go to Glenn for a second.
[03:38:00]  My point is that two things.
[03:38:02]  The Civil War was an insurrection.
[03:38:04]  I think it's hard to argue that.
[03:38:05]  Nobody got charged with a crime of violating the insurrection rebellion statute 2383.
[03:38:14]  What about 1992, the LA riots?
[03:38:16]  George Herbert Walker Bush, he invoked the Insurrection Act.
[03:38:21]  12,000 people were arrested.
[03:38:23]  63 people were killed.
[03:38:25]  Hundreds were injured.
[03:38:26]  Was that an insurrection?
[03:38:28]  What do you guys think?
[03:38:29]  No, it's a declaration of federal martial law.
[03:38:32]  But was it an insurrection?
[03:38:33]  Because nobody there was charged with violating nobody that nobody there was charged with violating section 2383, the insurrection and rebellion statute.
[03:38:42]  But we still consider that an insurrection.
[03:38:44]  I mean, by that yardstick, Kamala Harris bailing out people at Firebomb Federal Buildings.
[03:38:49]  Glenn, talk to me.
[03:38:50]  You have something to say.
[03:38:51]  Yeah, I actually think what Destiny and what Ed are saying are very important.
[03:38:55]  First of all, I was going to say that I think one of the problems with how these things are debated is that a lot of people these days have very binary prisms for understanding things.
[03:39:04]  God, it comes from YouTube debate where you have to declare yourself on one side or the other.
[03:39:07]  So Destiny said, oh, everybody either hates this insurrection, thinks it's an insurrection, or they deny it happens, or they think it's good.
[03:39:16]  And there's so much middle ground, namely that for me, this was a political protest that spilled over into a riot where a small minority of the people engaged in violence.
[03:39:26]  I don't think we want to urge that to happen.
[03:39:28]  We don't want to defend that.
[03:39:29]  I consider that lamentable.
[03:39:31]  But the fact that it's laughable to call this an insurrection is actually demonstrated by the examples that they're using.
[03:39:38]  This was a three-hour riot that was extremely easily subdued.
[03:39:43]  It doesn't remotely compare to any prior insurrections, let alone to the Civil War.
[03:39:48]  The only people who were killed on January 6th were four people, all four of whom were Trump supporters, two of whom dropped dead of a heart attack and one from a speed overdose because these were not exactly a well-trained militia.
[03:40:02]  And when Jack Smith went to charge Donald Trump with multiple crimes, he had a lot of options to charge him with, and he charged him with a lot of crimes, including very dubious ones.
[03:40:12]  He did not charge him with inciting an insurrection for reasons that I think we ought to ask ourselves why.
[03:40:18]  But the fact that this is such a minor event in history is demonstrated by the fact that the media who needed this to be a major event immediately started lying about what happened, saying that Brian Sicknick was murdered when he had his head bashed in through a fight with a fire extinguisher, only to learn that actually he called his mother that night.
[03:40:38]  He was fine.
[03:40:38]  He died the next day of what the coroner said were natural causes, because the media knew that if you can't say that even one person supposedly perpetrating the insurrection killed anybody, pulled out a gun, let alone discharge the weapon, all of which is true.
[03:40:54]  It's a joke to call this an insurrection.
[03:40:56]  At best, it's a riot.
[03:40:57]  And that's the reason why Trump hasn't been charged with an insurrection.
[03:41:01]  The only time he ever commented on January 6th about whether he thought there should be violence or not was when he said the following.
[03:41:08]  Said, I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.
[03:41:17]  He urged them to be peaceful in how they went there.
[03:41:20]  To the extent there was violence, I think you can make the argument that the FBI informants that even the New York Times admits were there were the ones that urged it.
[03:41:26]  But even if the people who were there were the ones responsible, at best, this is a riot.
[03:41:31]  You could so easily make the case that the 2020 riots were as a far greater insurrectionary threat than anything that happened on January 6th.
[03:41:39]  That's perfectly said.
[03:41:41]  I would ask the left over here.
[03:41:42]  I know Ian's asked the questions.
[03:41:44]  I mean, I don't know.
[03:41:44]  Did you guys see Biden's speech?
[03:41:46]  I mean, it was an hour long that no one there was good.
[03:41:50]  They were all there, millions, over a million people.