Participants
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| Speaker | Time | Text |
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| Welcome, welcome, welcome on this 19th day of November 2008. | ||
|
unidentified
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The Alexis Communications Radio Network proudly presents The Alex Jones Show. | |
| Because there's a war on for your mind. | ||
| Welcome, welcome, welcome on this 19th day of November 2008. | ||
| Got about 52 minutes left in this coast to coast broadcast. | ||
| We are live, transmitting over the web at prisonplanet.tv. | ||
| On the visual, on the three dimensional there, the two dimensional. | ||
| And we are going over the radio as well on the MNFM dial, Global Shortwave, the Internet at InfoWars.com and PrisonPlanet.com. | ||
| Don't forget, for this month in November into December, you get five months free at PrisonPlanet.tv. | ||
| All of my films are super high quality, hundreds of weekly TV reports, extras, a bunch of other films, four and a half years up and running, thousands of pieces of media, and your membership at PrisonPlanet.tv also makes this radio show. | ||
| and future films possible, so be sure and check out the five months free right now at PrisonPlanet.tv. | ||
| Now, I thought I'd get both these guys on together. | ||
| Something a little different. | ||
| I mean, obviously I could have one of them on for ten hours. | ||
| They've got so much knowledge apiece. | ||
| But we've got David Ray Griffin on with physics professor Stephen Jones together. | ||
| And they're both big 9-11 truthers. | ||
| And so I thought, well, originally I was going to have them on for this hour. | ||
| Because National Geographic wanted to interview me and others about 9-11 Truth. | ||
| And then I found out that the guy that was doing the piece, this Erickson, specializes in hit pieces on the JFK assassination. | ||
| And I watched some of his programs, and let me tell you, I've never seen anything like it. | ||
| So I didn't want to be a kind of a cardboard cutout in a stacked deck. | ||
| I think Griffin and Jones are still being interviewed for it, but they were going to be here today, and I saw the program inside the shooter car this Sunday you made for Discovery, and it was ridiculous. | ||
| It was ridiculous. | ||
| I mean, bottom line, they admit they tore up the Chrysler, took it apart, hid the evidence, took it away, witnesses said there were bullet holes all over it, in the windshield, none of that. | ||
| And a parade of spooks telling us that Oswald did it alone. | ||
| And I just said, you know what, I just don't want to be around these people. | ||
| And they're like, but you don't want to be on TV? | ||
| No, I don't care. | ||
| So, that said, I've never turned down an interview, but you know what, when it's this bad, I'm just not going to be part of it. | ||
| Bringing that subject up, let's go to David Ray Griffin first, briefly. | ||
| David, I guess you're still going to be interviewed by these guys? | ||
| Well, it is scheduled, but it's up in the air. | ||
| I felt the show they did on 9-11 was pretty horrible. | ||
| Excuse me, I'm mixing with the JFK. | ||
| The History Channel did that. | ||
| And I haven't seen enough of the National Geographic. | ||
| The one show I turned down was the second BBC show. | ||
| Which was on World Trade Center 7, and Stephen went ahead and went on that one, and I'm glad he did, because he was able to get in a lot of good points, as did Richard Gage. | ||
| And, you know, they said, well, that show was going to be better. | ||
| It indeed was better than the original BBC show on the towers, but it was still full of lies, and mainly the big lie about Barry Jennings' timeline, which they totally Okay, we're going to go over that, and I'm glad that's why you're here today. | ||
| I was originally going to have you talk about 9-11 evidence. | ||
| Okay, I agreed to do BBC, and that was a hit piece and was twisted, but let me tell you, they at least acted like they were getting our side. | ||
| This guy, this Erickson, if you watch the JFK shooter car, inside the shooter car, Completely one-sided. | ||
| I have never seen a hit piece even approaching this. | ||
| So, a word to the wise is sufficient to you and Professor Jones, both of you are professors. | ||
| and so, I mean, believe me, I don't just back out of, I mean, I'm not afraid of going up against somebody, but, I mean, if I know that their specialty is this type of intellectual quackery, then I'm not if I know that their specialty is this type of intellectual quackery, then I'm not going to be part of it, Let's bring Stephen Jones up. | ||
| Speaking of that last BBC hit piece, what did you think of that, Professor Jones? | ||
|
unidentified
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Well, I want to talk about the BBC, but also the National Geographic interview that I have already had, actually, Alex, last week. | |
| So starting with BBC, like I say, I was able to get a few points in. | ||
| I was very disappointed in their headline that came out before the preliminary report from NIST, and that was that the World Trade Center 7 mystery has been solved. | ||
| Well, you know, it's not solved until they get the report, until we have a chance to respond. | ||
| and review what they said. | ||
| Overall, the piece was basically a hit piece, but like David said, we were able to get a few points across, which I was very gratified that we were able to get some truth out through that medium. | ||
| I think it's very important that we continue to reach people through the media, even if they're not entirely friendly to us. | ||
| You know, it gives us a chance to reach people, then they can get online and learn more. | ||
| Now, Alex, I would like to About this Robert Erickson, I was interviewed by him last week. | ||
| Let's see, it would be Thursday. | ||
| And frankly, I thought his questions were very fair. | ||
| I don't think I gave him a lot of ammunition to do a hit piece, because I was very circumspect in my answers. | ||
| There was a question, there were a lot of questions about the science, the technical details, the dust of 9-11. | ||
| which I was just very pleased to answer. | ||
| And frankly, he seemed quite interested. | ||
| So I don't know if this will be different from the JFK. | ||
| I suspect it will. | ||
| Well, what they do is they do, with crop circles, with other JFK events, they do specific little scientific tests, and then they say, case closed, Oswald alone, you know, shot him from behind. | ||
| I'm not saying you're bad for doing the interview, I'm glad you did it, I'm just saying look out. | ||
| I also kept asking them, what do you want to interview me about? | ||
| Send me questions. | ||
| And they wouldn't give me the questions. | ||
| So that's the main reason, but let's get into the latest BBC piece with David Ray Griffin, and then Professor Jones, come in with your own points on the science, as a physicist, dealing with this. | ||
| Professor Griffin, breaking down the latest BBC piece, saying, we solved Building 7, and this is why it happened. | ||
| Break that down for folks, the distortions. | ||
| Well, partly they're basing it on what they assumed NIST was going to say. | ||
| The report of the National Institute of Standards and Technology, which wasn't out yet, but they clearly were talking with them and had a pretty good idea what they were going to say. | ||
| And one thing NIST had done was to distort the timeline of Barry Jennings and Michael Hess. | ||
| As you know, And most of your listeners know. | ||
| Jennings very clearly said that he and Hess went into the World Trade Center Building 7 very early, right after the first strike. | ||
| So they were up there by about 9 o'clock. | ||
| He's certain he was there at 9.03 when the second strike on the South Tower occurred. | ||
| And shortly thereafter, they went down the stairs. | ||
| The elevator wouldn't work, and Jennings said he was on the BBC show, he said, He was going a landing at a time. | ||
| And so they were going down very fast. | ||
| So that means they would have gotten down to the 6th floor by about 9.10 or 9.15 at the latest. | ||
| And there was this huge explosion. | ||
| They went back up to the 8th floor, broke a window. | ||
| Jennings said, I looked out, and both towers were still standing. | ||
| So what the Enists said, well, these two guys were in there. | ||
| And there was a big event, but it was just the North Tower coming down. | ||
| Well, of course, that was 1028, which is over an hour later. | ||
| And Hess remained silent, of course, all those years. | ||
| And then as soon as Jennings dies, the BBC interviews Hess, and Hess freely does an interview now. | ||
| And of course tells this new story and tells the timeline. | ||
| And interestingly, of course, Heath is still alive. | ||
| Also... | ||
| Also on record here, he went on Fox TV, he went on other news channels right after the towers had collapsed, and he's on tape talking about how he quickly got out of the building and then how the towers collapsed. | ||
| So, clearly on record, BBC and everybody knows that that was a very short time frame, not three hours. | ||
| So we're seeing massive deception right there on its face. | ||
| Well, we know that Hess was being interviewed a half mile away before noon. | ||
| Uh, probably 1134, but at least before noon. | ||
| And, uh, in this claim, they didn't even get rescued until 10 after 12, or 10 or 15 minutes after 12. | ||
| So we know they're lying about that. | ||
| I don't think he has... I didn't hear him say anything about the towers coming down, but what he did say was that he... there was a big explosion. | ||
| And now he's changed the story, and he says, well, yeah, I thought there was an explosion at the time, but now I realize it was just the... | ||
| the North Tower coming down. | ||
| Well, the way the program implied it, I mean, they don't state anything in these except the pieces, was that it was the towers falling. | ||
| And then they got them out of the building after the towers had fallen. | ||
| I mean, that's the point I'm making is they imply the explosions are the towers falling. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| Now, Stephen Jones particularly gets into the science itself. | ||
| What did you think about the science they were putting out in that piece? | ||
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unidentified
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Well, I've been disappointed. | |
| You know, they did their... | ||
| Let me put some background, Alex. | ||
| About the time they interviewed me, we were finishing up our 14 points paper, which is published in the Open Civil Engineering Journal. | ||
| So people can Google on that or go to journal on 911studies.com and it's right at the top, a link to this paper in an established journal. | ||
| So, point 11 there, I discussed with the folks from BBC, Which has to do with the steel recovered from the site of World Trade Center 7. | ||
| It just looks like Swiss cheese. | ||
| I don't know if you've seen the photos. | ||
| But it's heavily corroded and shows sulfur inside the steel. | ||
| And of course that's been a point in my first paper on 9-11 and then again on this 14 points paper. | ||
| And so I raised that with BBC and we discussed it at some length. | ||
| In fact, I even did an experiment right there with them shaping it. | ||
| Well, hold on one moment. | ||
| I'm actually going to skip this break because this information is too important right now. | ||
| With food prices. | ||
| Now, let's go ahead and skip that break with David Ray Griffin and Stephen Jones because we have both of you. | ||
| I want to make sure both of you have more time. | ||
| Specifically, yeah, they're claiming that the metal was corroded in the heat instead of being instantly melted. | ||
| And so can you... | ||
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unidentified
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Yeah, so here's what we did. | |
| FEMA, to their credit, put this data in Appendix C of their report that came out, and then NIST has totally ignored this data on the steel. | ||
| In fact, NIST admits they didn't look at any steel from World Trade Center 7 in their report. | ||
| Very blatant violation of normal scientific protocol. | ||
| They've been lying, Stephen. | ||
| They said there was no steel from Building 7. | ||
|
unidentified
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Very interesting point. | |
| There's a lot of steel there. | ||
| I saw the photos of it, but anyway. | ||
| Okay, and I know a lot of it was whisked away, but we do know of a sample that still exists, because we've been in touch with the people at Worcester Polytechnic Institute. | ||
| They have the steel from the rubble pile of Building 7. | ||
| Quite a distance, as you know, from the other two towers, so there's really very little question about it. | ||
| Besides markings and so on. | ||
| Well, back to the story with BBC. | ||
| So I did this experiment with thermate, which is what I call thermite plus sulfur, and I had a piece of steel from the South Tower. | ||
| Long story, how I got this small sample of steel, but it was actual steel from the World Trade Center. | ||
| I put this slice of steel in the thermate, touched it off, BBC cameras rolling, I don't see that they showed any of that, but then we took that steel down to the scanning electron microscope and looked at it, and sure enough, there's sulfur in the steel. | ||
| Which is surprising, we've done this experiment before, but you know, I was trying to get the point across that we know how the sulfur and this attack, there's a hole in the steel when you do this with thermate. | ||
| And you showed all this to BBC, and they really didn't show a lot of that. | ||
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unidentified
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And they didn't show it. | |
| Well, let me tell you what's going to happen when this other guy from I mean, it's a production company who just did a Discovery Channel piece on JFK. | ||
| Now they're doing the San Francisco Geographic. | ||
| What he does is he hires a bunch of former cops. | ||
| We know about these cop crime labs. | ||
| Oh boy, are they reliable. | ||
| Give me a break. | ||
| Beelzebub's more accurate. | ||
| And then they have them, and they're going to come out and show, knowing that the general public's not going to go out and do your thermate test, and it's going to be kind of like I know what you mean, Alex. | ||
| I'm just saying that I think it's worthwhile to take a shot at trying to get some facts out there to the public. | ||
| Even some of those slipped through in the BBC effort. | ||
| unless I'm totally wrong about all this. | ||
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unidentified
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I still, yeah, I know what you mean, Alex. | |
| I'm just saying that I think it's worthwhile to take a shot to try and get some facts out there to the public. | ||
| Even some of those slipped through in the BBC effort. | ||
| So I'm hopeful with this fellow Robert. | ||
| And if I say, his questions were fair. | ||
| There's one question that he asked that I thought was a little off, and so I didn't go there, but I explained why. | ||
| His question was, well, he's talking to Professor Thomas Eager, which is good in a sense. | ||
| I'd like to see, I'd like to talk to Professor Eager. | ||
| I'd like to debate the issues publicly with Professor Eager, particularly the 14-point. | ||
| But what are they asking? | ||
| What did he specifically ask you about, Eager? | ||
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unidentified
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Oh, so what he was asking about was, he said, Eager wants me to ask you, how in the world can you get all these explosives into the towers and Building 7 to bring them down? | |
| You know, give me an exact scenario. | ||
| And my point was, well look, we have now found residues in the dust that show this explosive material. | ||
| Hold on, hold on, we're coming back to the full audience. | ||
| Hold on, here we go. | ||
| Okay, so Professor Jones is talking to the... We're going to go back to Professor Griffin here in just a moment. | ||
| He's talking to the... | ||
| National Geographic guy, and then a guy saying, this Professor Eager wants to know exactly how many bombs were in the building, and exactly how they wired up 7 in Tower 1 and 2. | ||
| Well, he asked me that same question over the phone, and I said, well, Building 7 was a spook building, CIA, FBI, it was the emergency, and he just started laughing at me. | ||
| I mean, that's an admitted fact, but it's real funny. | ||
| And, you know, same thing with the other buildings, and Professor Jones was saying, Well, hey, we found the explosive's residue. | ||
| That's the issue here. | ||
| Not how did they commit the whole crime. | ||
| We're saying there's evidence of a crime. | ||
| That's why we needed a real investigation, not a cover-up. | ||
| Professor Jones? | ||
|
unidentified
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That's right, Alex. | |
| And that's what I explained to him on tape. | ||
| So I didn't give him an exact scenario. | ||
| What I said was there's a lot we can learn from the hard physical evidence from the 9-11 deaths. | ||
| And these residues that we're looking for, the NFPA 921, the National Fire Code, requires a scene of a fire where there's a crime, which certainly applies to 9-11. | ||
| But then the next step, just like in CSI, the scientists do their work, but then you have other investigators with subpoena power, for instance, in a trial setting, so that you can ask questions from a lot of people. | ||
| Well, you've now gotten peer-reviewed journals on this, and I want to talk about that more, but going back to David Ray Griffin, who by the way has written, what, now seven books on 9-11. | ||
| Is that correct, Professor? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And we'll talk about the latest book before you leave us here. | ||
| But the time we've got, you know, you've studied more psychology. | ||
| You've studied more the human mind. | ||
| You know, that's what your degree is more focused on. | ||
| Studying this and being involved in the investigation, you know, we've got the Solicitor General's, you know, wife, Neal. | ||
| Now the FBI admits that he made up the phone call. | ||
| She didn't call him. | ||
| I mean, how are they getting so many people to lie, who've been caught in lies, and how do they get these TV presenters to knowingly go out and lie and say that Barry Jennings was in the building three hours when he was in there 20 minutes? | ||
| I mean, how do they find people to do this? | ||
| Well, they pay them big salaries. | ||
| A lot of my work was in the problem of evil. | ||
| And this is, of course, a very old story. | ||
| And it still is shocking, even though I've studied it over the centuries, the really just horrible things people can do, and at the same time be kind of ordinary good family men. | ||
| I mean, this was notorious about the Nazis. | ||
| In fact, the famous statement called the Banality of Evil, a study of the Nazis, that these were just ordinary family men that get put in situations where their job depends on it, their career depends on it, their salary depends on it, and so on. | ||
| And it is astounding what people will do. | ||
| I was very disappointed on the BBC show They at least dealt with this question of the steel that had been turned into Swiss cheese looking stuff, that they at least mentioned this, but they brought on one or two of those professors at Worcester Polytechnic Institute who had done that study, and you know at the time they said, well, they had no idea where the sulfur came from. | ||
| On the BBC show, one of them said, oh, well, I don't find that surprising. | ||
| It could have just kind of mixed in, you know, heating up underground there. | ||
| Yeah, they claim steel now corroded in a few weeks in the heat when it's got the, according to Jones and others, you know, the classic burn holes, you know, that happen from something really fast. | ||
| Well, that's right, and you'd be talking about extremely High temperatures. | ||
| Stephen, what temperatures would you need to oxidize steel? | ||
|
unidentified
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Well, of course steel can rust, but the point here is that there are very high temperatures in evidence to reduce that steel beam to the thickness. | |
| It's very thin paper with holes in it, plus the sulfur in the steel. | ||
| I talked to a fellow from WPI saying, well, it could, the operative term there is could, have been something like Wal-Board that could introduce sulfur. | ||
| But you see, Wal-Board has calcium and sulfur, and they're very tightly bound with oxygen as well, calcium and sulfur. | ||
| So, you know, it's not an issue here just saying you could do it. | ||
| You do experiments. | ||
| That's what we do in science. | ||
| Alright, we're going to break and come back and talk about that experiment, and then from both of you, both Professor Jones and Professor Griffin, find out where you think this should go from here. | ||
| Stay with us, we'll be right back. | ||
|
unidentified
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We're on the march, the empire's on the run. | |
| Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network. | ||
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| Today, unlike any other in the long course of American history, a terrorist act of war against this country. | ||
|
unidentified
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The enemy struck America on September 11th. | |
| But who is the enemy? | ||
| Bin Laden. | ||
| This is his MO. | ||
| We have to look to the Middle East. | ||
| We have to look to Osama Bin Laden. | ||
|
unidentified
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Fabled Enemies is the first 9-11 film to take a close look at the terrorist ties to intelligence networks inside the United States. | |
| Some U.S. | ||
| investigators believe that there are Israelis again very much engaged in spying in and on the U.S. | ||
|
unidentified
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I'm aware that some Israeli citizens have been detained. | |
| ...Laden's connections to the CIA, the hijacker's ties to the FBI, the Saudi Arabian connection, the Israeli intelligence network, warnings and war games, the shadow government, and much, much more. | ||
| Fabled enemies. | ||
| Get the DVD at InfoWars.com or see it in super high quality along with hundreds of other titles at PrisonPlanet.tv. | ||
| Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists. | ||
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| Or call 801-325-5152. | ||
|
unidentified
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That's 801-325-5152. | |
| or call 801-325-5152. | ||
| That's 801-325-5152. | ||
| This message has been brought to you by RadioCreditSecrets.com. | ||
| You know, in the 25 minutes or so of airtime we have left with both of you gentlemen today, I'd like for you both to have a discussion and cover the issues that you think are most important. | ||
| and And we can go back over the science of Building 7 or Tower 1 or 2, that's only a small part of it. | ||
| You take all the evidence together, that's what's really strong. | ||
| It's just seeing the other side, how they always lie, they always distort, they always twist, knowingly. | ||
| And I go back to what I was saying to David Ray Griffin, who's a top theologian, amongst other things, is, yeah, the nature of evil. | ||
| I mean, do they rationalize to themselves? | ||
| I think some of them do that, but others, you know, it's funny to them. | ||
| I mean, I guess they get a thrill by working with the evil, by being patted on the head by the system. | ||
| David Ray Griffin? | ||
| Well, you know, it's hard to know in all cases. | ||
| I think some of it is what Sinclair Lewis pointed out long ago, that it's hard to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it. | ||
| So I think in some cases, the people in the news media, you know, they have blinders on and they just look selectively at the evidence that seems to support the official story. | ||
| And so they recognize, well, if they twist a little bit here and there, they're doing it for a larger truth they can rationalize. | ||
| So I think there's quite a bit of that going on, rather than just, well, I know I'm doing something really horrible, but I need the money. | ||
| So I think there's a lot of self-delusion that allows people to live with themselves. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| Steven Jones, I know you're a physicist, so you stick mainly to the science, but dealing with these people, I mean, your evidence, your research is conclusive. | ||
| It fits in with other research and eyewitness reports. | ||
| They're fitting square pegs and round holes. | ||
| We're fitting round pegs and round holes. | ||
| I mean, what has this whole journey been like for you? | ||
| And where do you see 9-11 Truth going now? | ||
| And then I'll ask that same question to Griffin. | ||
| Now that Obama's coming in, some are saying, oh my gosh, they think everything's fine okay now. | ||
| They're going to sleep. | ||
| Not understanding the very same military-industrial complex that clearly staged the attacks is still in control. | ||
|
unidentified
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Let me respond to that particular issue of where the 9-11 Truth Movement is going, Alex. | |
| I'm actually quite encouraged. | ||
| See, the flip side to those, basically, official people missed, for example, that keep evading many of our questions. | ||
| And then, anyway, we could discuss that further. | ||
| But I want to hit on and mention the people that are There's really a very large, as you know, and you're a big part of it, this large public movement to get at the 9-11 truth. | ||
| And in particular, I want to thank those people in New York City who saved World Trade Center deaths, the 9-11 deaths, on that day or shortly thereafter. | ||
| We now have four samples that we're looking at very actively and scrutinizing very carefully. | ||
| And, uh, this dust is just revealing so much to us about what really happened that day. | ||
| Uh, I have heard reports that the officials that, uh, gathered up the steel and shipped that over to Asia for melting also tried to gather up all the dust, but they did not succeed. | ||
| A lot of people saved dust because it came into their apartments. | ||
| It invaded their private space and, and to their great credit, these, uh, New Yorkers saved some of that dust, often just for a souvenir. | ||
| And we've had a dust-in from Frank D'Alessio, who gathered a sample ten minutes after the North Tower collapsed. | ||
| That dust is full of these red chips, red on one side, gray on the other, that are very actively being studied now by three labs. | ||
| And there are other labs anxious to study this material. | ||
| And the reason I mention this, I had an email from David here just before your program. | ||
| We would like to encourage others who have saved dust samples to provide a portion of the sample, retaining some for a further study. | ||
| But this study is underway now. | ||
| We're not waiting for an official government sanction or group to study this. | ||
| We're studying it now. | ||
| And we want to turn this into an international effort. | ||
| The labs now are here in Indiana and New Hampshire, and we want to spread that to France and Australia and so on. | ||
| There are people in France just very anxious to get their hands on a small 9-11 dust sample. | ||
| Sure. | ||
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unidentified
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They can look for the microspheres and the red-grey chips. | |
| So, Stephen, would you want them to send it directly to you, or how would they get it to you? | ||
|
unidentified
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Okay, I wouldn't want it to come directly to me, then we have problems with chain of custody. | |
| But if they want to write to me, or... You could give them the address where to send it. | ||
| I can give them the address, right. | ||
| Professor Barbarian in France needs a sample desperately, for example. | ||
| And we're trying to get that over to him. | ||
| It needs to be, a sample needs to be about what would fit in your hand, you know, a cup-shaped hand. | ||
| Well, how do folks get in contact with you? | ||
| Through the journal? | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah, if they go to the journal of 911studies.com, and then up at the top click on Contact Us, they can write to either Kevin, or either of the three editors, Kevin Ryan, Frank Legge, a Ph.D. | |
| chemist in Australia, or myself. | ||
| Or if, this is David Griffin, if anybody just wants to email me, if you know my email, I'm in contact with the same people in France, so I can give you the address too. | ||
|
unidentified
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Right, so we're very anxious to turn this into an international, basically a public, conducted investigation with the public being involved in providing... Well that is the good news! | |
| We also have Russian TV, French, Spanish, Japanese. | ||
| I mean, they're all doing real reports that are showing, wow, there really is evidence of inside job. | ||
| David Ray Griffin, looking at this historically, which you also look at, how do you see it unfolding now? | ||
| Because at one level, I do see it losing some wind in the sails with Obama. | ||
| But at another level, it's already gone international and actually seems to be building despite that. | ||
| And you know, false flag terrorism has now entered the nomenclature. | ||
| It's in movies, it's in culture. | ||
| People are now looking for it, so it seems that the tool of government, of false flag, or corporations, has been damaged to a certain extent. | ||
| And some people say to me, well, why do you care? | ||
| That was seven years ago. | ||
| The whole point is the entire post 9-11 world, this whole surveillance grid, Yes, let me make three points. | ||
| One is, I think the election of Obama is a reason to gear up, not to slow down. | ||
| and truth saga itself and where you see it, what it's done and where you see it going? | ||
| Yes, let me make three points. | ||
| One is I think the election of Obama is a reason to gear up, not to slow down. | ||
| Because, you know, although we all tried, there was no realistic chance, as long as Bush was in power, that anything was going to happen in the United States. | ||
| But with a new administration, a new Attorney General, and so on, there is really a chance that we could have an investigation. | ||
| Now, some people were motivated by revenge. | ||
| They wanted Bush and Cheney and the gang to be punished, and that's understandable. | ||
| But that's not the main thing. | ||
| The main thing is to get the policies changed, as you've indicated. | ||
| The so-called war on terror is set to continue. | ||
| Obama thus far has talked about increasing our activities in Afghanistan, and they're still talking as if they believe that Osama bin Laden is still alive, even though there's no evidence that he's been alive. | ||
| In fact, it appears they're reviving him! | ||
| Yeah, he's... I'm just writing a paper on that, and the evidence is very strong. | ||
| The evidence that he's been alive since 2001 is really extremely weak to non-existent. | ||
| So that's one point, that we should be increasing our activity, not decreasing it. | ||
| Secondly, on this internationalization, I just returned from a tour in Japan, and there is increasing interest there. | ||
| We had almost 500 people turn out in Tokyo for an all-day conference. | ||
| And then we have political leaders in Tokyo who have taken a public stand. | ||
| And of course, that adds credibility. | ||
| And I've been working with Fujita and another person to bring about a group called Political Leaders for 9-11 Truth, which will be an international movement. | ||
| We already, in fact, have a website, although if you go there, there's nothing on it there. | ||
| But we're all ready to fill in the The data. | ||
| So that'll be a significant event. | ||
| And thirdly... Hello, are you still there? | ||
| Yes, we're here. | ||
| Okay, I just... Thirdly, a new group has just formed called Lawyers for 9-11 Truth, which is an international group. | ||
| And William Pepper and many other leading lawyers have already signed up, and it's moving along rather quickly. | ||
| The point is that whereas Stephen and Kevin and others have led the way to get us to this point, where the science is so strong, that it's now time to turn it over to the political and legal realm, and that is now starting to happen. | ||
| Alright, well let's look forward. | ||
| First you, Professor Grimmond, and then quickly, and then get a response from Professor Jones. | ||
| How do you see it unfolding in the future? | ||
| Because it is continuing to grow. | ||
| People understand how core an issue it is of government-sponsored terror, of provocateur actions. | ||
| How do you see it unfolding? | ||
| Do you see any justice to the perpetrators? | ||
| Or do you just see it becoming a public secret that this has been done, thus deterring some of the same institutions from pulling off similar events in the future? | ||
| Well, I would prefer a third alternative. | ||
| As I say, I'm not interested in and resent, and I'm rather encouraged by Obama. | ||
| I know some people aren't, but I am. | ||
| First of all, he is very bright, and secondly, I believe he has also got a strong moral compass. | ||
| And he also appreciates constitutional law, and he knows what has been done here. | ||
| And so I think that he will be open to, he and his people will be open to evidence. | ||
| So that's why I say I think we need to ramp things up and present the strongest evidence and take every route we can to get it, bring it to the attention of the Obama people. | ||
| Because I think there is the chance for real investigation, but also he has shown that he has this Virtue called forgiveness that, you know, at least in our Christian tradition, has been called a virtue. | ||
| And he's willing to let bygones be bygones. | ||
| And so I think if the most hopeful route would be a truth and reconciliation commission, where the main thing would be to get the truth out and therefore get the policies changed. | ||
| And if these people, you know, they'll have their own punishment. | ||
| You know, just knowing what they did, and having other people know what they did, that's a very secondary or tertiary matter from my point of view. | ||
| Professor Jones? | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| I guess mine would be almost a fourth alternative, or maybe a modification of a couple others, and that is, I think, from the people, ourselves, internationally now, as it's clear that there's an awakening going on. | ||
| I think that there can be this grassroots movement, coupled, frankly, with economic difficulties that are making people say, well, wait a minute, maybe I shouldn't trust the government and everything, you know? | ||
| I mean, the depression or recession, whatever you want to call it, that seems to be spreading internationally is inducing people to take a hard look at what has brought us to this state. | ||
| And as that happens, Through the internet and programs like yours, Alex, the truth about 9-11, I believe, will resonate with more people, and we'll have this grassroots movement demanding answers. | ||
| And I think that, coupled with the science, will force politicians, even in our own Congress, to say, look, we need to take a look at this. | ||
| I might say that our Congressman, my Congressman, here in Utah, Came over to my little apartment and spent an hour with me, one-on-one, discussing 9-11 issues and the research that I've done. | ||
| And he is very supportive of a 9-11 investigation. | ||
| Jason Chaffetz. | ||
| Just newly elected. | ||
| Replaced Chris Cannon. | ||
| Well, Jason Chaffetz. | ||
|
unidentified
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Chaffetz, right. | |
| So, you know, I'm very encouraged, and I know there are a lot of people locally and internationally Is that a federal congressman? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| How do you spell his name, Jason Chaffetz? | ||
|
unidentified
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Chaffetz, C-H-A-F-F-E-T-Z. | |
| Alright, I want to get him on. | ||
|
unidentified
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Well, okay. | |
| He's new into the Congress, his first round, you know, in Congress. | ||
| So he is a 9-11 truther or he's investigating? | ||
|
unidentified
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I was, he supports an investigation and he wanted to talk to me and so we did for an hour in my apartment. | |
| Well, that's fabulous. | ||
| That is fabulous news. | ||
| Okay, in the... People are... In the ten minutes... People are... Go ahead. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
|
unidentified
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I mean, you were saying that the people are... People are leaning on their congressman to do an investigation. | |
| I'm hoping that is, you know, various conditions cause people to wake up, that they will continue to speak out to their congressmen. | ||
| Not let that down, but now keep the pressure up on the congressmen, and internationally too, so that as David said, we can get the political arm and the legal arm active in pursuing justice and truth. | ||
| David Ray Griffin, isn't there also a facet to this that the people have learned that when the mainstream media is attacking a 9-11 truth movement or a JFK investigation movement or any other movement, that generally isn't there also a facet to this that the people have learned that when the mainstream media is attacking a 9-11 truth movement or a JFK investigation movement I | ||
| I mean I found as bad as the History Channel piece was that it seemed to backfire on them and got more people to actually look at the evidence. | ||
| Well, yeah, and the BBC show had the same effect. | ||
| Yeah, and just building on what Stephen was saying there, I think that it will take an international movement, and that's why I'm encouraged that Japan, it looks like now, will be putting pressure on Washington and saying, look, we lost some people in the towers. | ||
| We've only had the assurance of President Bush that these were Muslims who did this. | ||
| Give us the proof. | ||
| I understand from Annie McCollum, she was here recently from the UK, the leader of the London movement, and she says that whereas some people in the United States had said things were dying down a little bit here because the Bush-Cheney people would be leaving office, That in Europe it's actually getting much more interest. | ||
| Well, let me say, it's only getting bigger from what I see in New York this last year and other places. | ||
| I'm just seeing some fear that, you know, it's a Bush-centric, all about Bush, whereas the very same military industrial complex that did this Uh, is still there. | ||
| And I think that's the point that has to be made, but we'll see, uh, what Barack Obama does. | ||
| I mean, I have to tell you, appointing Hillary Clinton, or moving to put her in Secretary of State, and a bunch of other stuff, I think we're going to see betrayal from him. | ||
| But, we can hope for the best. | ||
| Final segment with Evan Ray Griffin. | ||
|
unidentified
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| All right, final segments with Professor Stephen Jones, who I want to get back on separately by himself and Edirard Griffin, by himself and their future. | ||
| But I thought it would be neat to have both of them on together today. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And we appreciate them joining us. | ||
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| Also, We're going to David Ray Griffin. | ||
| Tell us about your latest book, your seventh book on 9-11. | ||
| Well, that's the New Pearl Harbor Revisited, and some people have thought it's an update or a revision of the New Pearl Harbor, but not at all. | ||
| It's a totally new book. | ||
| The idea is that if a journalist or a politician were going to try to dig into this who knew nothing about it before, It's kind of overwhelming to think, you know, they might have to read 20 journal articles and three or seven books or so. | ||
| So the idea was to try to get all the most essential information in two books. | ||
| So it's now a two-volume set, The New Pearl Harbor and The New Pearl Harbor Revisited. | ||
| And by the way, when you read these books, or you go over the 500 smoking guns of 9-11 online, it is mind-blowing. | ||
| I mean, just how obvious it is, David. | ||
| Well that's right, and I've always argued the main thing is a cumulative case that no matter which part of the story you look at, you find outright contradictions and lies. | ||
| And just assertions that, from a scientific point of view, cannot be true. | ||
| Well, that's it. | ||
| It's the covering up. | ||
| I mean, the other evidence is strong, too. | ||
| But the covering up, the sneakiness, the lying, the acting so suspicious, I mean, that is really powerful. | ||
| And in closing, Stephen Jones, your take on that. | ||
| I mean, is that strong evidence, the way they lie and cover up? | ||
|
unidentified
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Well, sure. | |
| And of course, the steel was cut up and shipped out of this country over the protests of many scientists and engineers who felt that this data, this evidence, was crucial in solving and understanding what happened on 9-11. | ||
| So, and again, now the dust we have is still extant, and I just wanted to re-emphasize, as I'm working with David and others, Kevin Ryan and others, Trying to understand and get samples of this 9-11 dust out to scientists worldwide so that we can really corroborate and confirm the results that we're getting. | ||
| The findings? | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah, the residues of explosives. | |
| So that people can hear about it from scientists. | ||
| I believe that there's a lot of trust still in scientists as opposed to politicians, I guess I could say it that way. | ||
| And I believe if we can get this out to the public and keep that public discussion going based on hard evidence, it will make tremendous strides in the next year. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| And folks, you can get in contact and read your papers. | ||
| Tell them the best place for that. | ||
|
unidentified
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Just go to journalof911studies.com, and our other papers that are published in the more established journals are listed right up at the top on the home page. | |
| Alright, and then of course for David Ray Griffin's book and other materials, you can just Google David Ray Griffin, The New Pearl Harbor Revisited. | ||
| Gentlemen, I want to thank you both for joining us today, and have a great Thanksgiving coming up next week. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thanks so much. |
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