Alex Jones and Guy Smith debate 9/11 conspiracies, with Jones accusing Smith of bias regarding WTC7 explosives and Operation Northwoods. Jesse Trinidad joins to allege his brother was tortured by the FBI for linking him to Oklahoma City, claiming Larry Potts directed Timothy McVeigh. Witness Daniel In London asserts British intelligence staged the 7/7 bombings, citing fake injuries, missing Asian bombers, and ignored forensic evidence like blood-stained shirts. Ultimately, these segments promote Jones' film Terror Storm, arguing that Western governments orchestrated major terror attacks to justify wars. [Automatically generated summary]
In the Encyclopedia Britannica 1999 edition, if you turn to yellow journalism, it details William Randolph Hearst helping organize and stage propaganda for the Spanish-American War, the enactment of the Federal Reserve, and many other globalist imperial programs.
There's only one other media group in history known for being more associated with the government and propaganda.
That is, in history, still operating.
George Orwell, of course, fashioning the character Winston off of himself in the Ministry of Truth in a fictional nightmare future dystopia, fashioned the Ministry of Truth off of the BBC, where black-as-white Up is down, left is right, and we are joined by Guy Smith, producer, director who made the Primetime Sunday program, 9-11 conspiracies for the BBC.
He'll be with us for the entire hour.
Dylan Avery will be popping in, as well as Paul Joseph Watson from Sheffield, England.
And Chertoff's cousin, the Homeland Security Director, telling me it wasn't a hit piece, and then it was.
I was talking about a previous Guy, you told me over the phone that it wasn't a hit piece, but you also laughed and said you don't believe the stuff we've put out.
I mean, can you honestly say that this isn't an attempt at debunking?
Yeah, Alex, I really appreciate coming on your show, and I admire much of the work you do in talking about subjects that perhaps the mainstream media doesn't want to talk about.
But we didn't set out to do a hit piece as you call it.
What we did is that we set out to investigate the evidence and to see where it led us.
And if it turned out that some of the conspiracy theories were true, I would have gladly said that in the film.
You know, we're not acting on behalf of any government agency, or, you know, we're not part of some conspiracy... The BBC isn't government-funded?
And just two years ago they made the director of the BBC resign and apologizing for putting out pieces claiming that Blair knew about WMDs and other things.
Yeah, but Alex, you know that you carry a lot more weight than any debunkers, and when you come on air, you have a lot more impact than anybody who's an expert or anything like that.
We're going to be right back on the other side of this break to walk through this.
We appreciate...
It's here after a year in production and traveling to distant lands.
My new film, Terror Storm, is complete.
Shocking declassified government documents prove that western governments are orchestrating terror attacks against their own populations as a pretext to enslave them.
Terror Storm proves that not only was 9-11 an inside job, but the attacks of 7-7 in London were carried out by British intelligence.
Terror Storm chronicles the lies that took us to war in Iran, a White House program to disseminate fake news, NSA spying, secret police torture, the latest 9-11 information, and much, much more.
Terror Storm is the definitive guide to the history of government-sponsored terrorism.
It's an anthology of government crimes.
Terror Storm is a film that everyone who wants to be truly informed must see.
Get your copy today at Infowars.com or PrisonPlanet.com or by calling toll-free 1-888-253-3139 or watch it right now online at PrisonPlanet.tv.
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He's the T-Rex of political talk, Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
I mean, you interviewed me for like three hours at the Grassy Knoll, then you followed us around and we're taping off and on during a five-hour event at night, and the next day you interviewed me, you videotaped the two-hour radio show, then you interviewed me about two hours after.
I talked to you constantly on the phone for weeks before that, but let's not digress.
There's a lot of points to make here.
My point is, are you denying that you had eleven debunkers and three 9-11 truthers in the film, and are you denying that they had a lot more time than we did?
Why didn't you have, say, Kevin Ryan of Underwriting Laboratories, their own internal report said that 1,800-degree jet fuel couldn't melt steel that doesn't melt, and it was molten.
That's on record.
We have the aerial photographs and the firefighters.
It was molten four weeks later.
How does 1,800 degrees melt steel that non-structural raw steel doesn't start melting until 2,554 degrees structural hardened steel until 3,300?
And those are numbers people can just pull up instantly on any engineering website.
Well, the reality is that we had 59 minutes and, frankly, we could have spent all day talking about just the Twin Towers.
We covered a lot of ground in the program, everything from the hijackers arriving in America before the attacks through to how the government tried to, the CIA and the FBI, tried to cover up their mistakes after the attacks.
So, you know, we only have 59 minutes, just as now we only have this one hour for this program.
There's not everything we can talk about.
So we decided to concentrate on some things more than others.
Now, clearly, one can make a whole hour just discussing the melting point of steel and exactly what happened to the Twin Towers.
But I guess the bottom line with the Twin Towers is, are you saying that they were demolished?
Now, if you were, then one has to look at why that happened and how that happened.
And we looked into that, and we came to the conclusion that the evidence just doesn't support that conspiracy theory.
Basically, that it's a modern religion of delusionals.
Now, in the NOVA piece, it shows, Paul, you've measured it and timed it.
Give him the exact seconds, and it comes out to about 55 seconds for the towers to fall, but in reality they fell in a little over 10 seconds, so even the NOVA piece is false, Paul.
If you take the conservative estimate and say the towers fell in 14 to 16 seconds, what we've got is Mr. Smith in the documentary near the beginning when he talks about controlled demolition.
He uses a graphic animation from Nova, which is a PBS scientific documentary, which depicts the collapse of the Twin Towers at a rate of 6 floors per second, meaning that the total collapse of each tower would have taken around 66 seconds.
So it's a patently false and misleading graphic to use, and My question is, you know, will there be a retraction of this graphic which is blatantly false and misleading and only lends to the bias that was already decided on in dismissing questions about controlled demolition?
But the point is, if you're suggesting that the World Trade Center was demolished by explosives, then I would say, where is the cast iron evidence to back that up?
Craig Bartmer, who was in the news, on record, giving citations, on the pile for five days, their 1-7 collapsed, has reported, and I've got now over 15 firefighters and police coming on in the next week.
We're lining them all up for one show.
Hope you tune in.
It'll be three hours of witnesses.
That said, we were told, get back from 7.
They were going to bring it down so it wouldn't damage other buildings.
They were going to blow it up.
We have CNN with two cops going, get back, get back.
7's going to come down.
Get back.
They're bringing it down.
Okay?
We clearly have this over and over again.
In fact, right now, go ahead.
Let's first play the molten steel clip from New York TV.
Here are firefighters talking about molten steel like a foundry like lava.
Okay, now let's play the next clip, and just in case you've never seen these or heard these, and the videos are up on the website, here's CNN with two cops saying, get back, they're gonna bring it down, seven's coming down, they say it three times, here it is, CNN.
So we not only have that, and again, there's over 15 coming on the show.
I've interviewed Bartmer for video for an upcoming film in New York, he can barely breathe.
Now, he tried to be interviewed by you, and you didn't want to talk to him, and he said that he was there, and they said, get back, they're going to bring the building down.
Now, you just heard clips, I'm asking you, why didn't you want to talk to a police officer?
Well, look, we could spend all day talking about whether there was molten steel or whether it was something else in the basement of the World Trade Center.
But what you have to do is to look at the bottom line theory.
Now, if you're saying those twin towers were demolished, I have yet to understand why they were demolished and how they were demolished.
All I can say is that the evidence that we have looked at just doesn't stack up.
I mean, is it really plausible that people would have flown two planes into these tin towers and laced them with demolition charges?
The CIA, the FBI, Defense Intelligence, it was a giant intelligence building.
It had the command center FEMA claimed they were there the night before, then they tried to retract, and Giuliani, in congressional testimony, admitted they were running Tripod 2, a drill of an attack on the complex, so they'd already moved out the night before to the end of the pier.
But is it really plausible, do you think, that World Trade Center 7 would have been demolished, and five years later, nobody who was involved in planting those demolition charges wouldn't have spoken to their wife or girlfriend or come forward and admitted that they were part nobody who was involved in planting those demolition charges wouldn't have spoken How did they have a manhound?
How did they have Tuskegee for 40 plus years killing black men with syphilis secret, the atomic soldiers, the ringworm children in Israel where they radiated 110,000, the Manhattan Project kept secret with over 100,000 people involved?
Come on!
The people who were involved in that and black ops know they'd be killed the minute they went public.
Well, I mean, yeah, you talk about the Manhattan Project, and that's a very interesting example, but it's something that's quite different, because here, remember, 3,000 American citizens died, or American and citizens from other countries as well, including Britain.
So, you know, it's like you seem to think that we're trying to cover something up.
You know, we're not covering anything up.
All we're doing is looking at the evidence in an objective, dispassionate way and trying to test whether it stands up to the examination.
I'd like to hear how you don't believe it and walk through things with Dylan Avery and Paul Joseph Watson on the other side.
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BBC producer, director.
Guy, I want to let Paul ask you questions.
Dylan Avery asked the question first.
We do appreciate your time.
In the next segment, it's a long 15-minute segment.
This is just a quick five-minute one.
We'll let you run for a few minutes, and I'll shut up and hear what you have to say.
But I'd like you to answer this question, because we've answered yours.
I kept begging you, please let me cover Operation Northwoods, the official U.S.
government plan to carry out 9-11 style attacks to blame it on a foreign enemy.
I said Gulf of Tonkin was staged, now declassified, Operation Ajax in Iran.
That's so important that there is a past M.O.
You know, the people who try to debunk us always say, why would they do it?
What would they gain?
Trillions in oil, billions in opium, control, military contracts, domestic police state, just like Hitler burned his own Reichstag.
You told me, no, Northwoods isn't going in here, it doesn't fit into it, it doesn't matter.
Now tell me why, if you made a film about the 9-11 Truth Movement, why you wouldn't cover the central issues of the history of government-sponsored terror and the history of plans to carry out terror against the American people.
Operation Northwood is fascinating, and from a historical point of view, it's a very interesting story.
But I have yet to see any evidence that links Operation Northwood to what happened on 9-11.
There's no doubt that the American government and other governments, no doubt the British government as well, has been involved in all sorts of operations in the past, false flag operations as you call it.
Oh!
But I have no doubt.
I mean, as you mentioned, the Gulf of Tonkin is a very interesting example.
But I have no evidence, and I have yet to see any convincing theories that show that what happened with the proposal of Operation Northwoods was put into practice on 9-11.
Let's say a six-foot-two gray-haired man with a red birthmark on his left cheek is videotaped robbing a bank and pistol-whipping the clerk.
And then the police run through a database of mug books and they notice that a bank robber, who fits that description, got out of prison six months ago and lives in the area.
And they go by his house and they pull him over when he leaves and he's got the cash in the trunk.
If you've got people that have done this before and plan to do this, my goodness, I think that's pretty darn important.
But what I do know is that I haven't seen any evidence that links Operation Northwoods to what happened at 9-11.
There's no doubt, as I've said before, that there are lots of operations that have happened in the past that have been carried out by the American government.
and other governments, you know, that are very unsavory.
But that doesn't mean to say that 9-11 was one of those operations, because I haven't seen the evidence.
If you show me the evidence, you know, then I'll believe it.
Well, let's just keep on Operation Northwest from now on.
What I'm saying is that just because there was this plan 40 years ago, it doesn't prove that the current occupants of the White House dusted it off and put it into practice in 2001.
I guess people who disagree with what you're saying would say, If it really was then a plot, why would the PNAC report writers publish their report in advance and put it all over the internet?
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In 1814 we took a little trip Along with Colonel Jackson down to mighty Mississippi We took a little bacon and we took a little beans And we caught the bloody British in a town in New Orleans We fired our guns and the British kept a-comin' There wasn't as many as there was a while ago We fired once more and they began to runnin' On down to Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.
We looked down the river and we see the British come.
And there must have been a hundred of them beatin' on the drums.
They stepped so high and they made their bugles ring.
We stood beside our cotton bales and didn't say a thing.
We fired our guns and the British kept a-comin'.
There wasn't as many as there was a while ago.
We fired once more and they began to runnin'.
On down to Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.
Old Hickory said we could take them by surprise.
If we didn't fire muskets till we looked them in the eye.
We held our fire till we see their faces well.
Then we opened up our swirl guns and really gave them well.
We appreciate him coming on and letting us go over the piece that he put out.
And now I'd like to give Dylan Avery a chance to ask a few questions and then of course Guy can ask questions of him or make statements if he'd like and then Paul Watson to come back in.
Dylan Avery, producer of Loose Change 1 and 2.
That, by the way, we carry at Infowars.com and PrisonPlanet.com, where you can watch for free at Google Video, as well as my film, Terror Storm.
Let's now go to Guy Smith.
Dylan, do you have any questions or comments for him?
unidentified
Yeah, my first one is, how can I drop out of something I never attended?
Well, your narrator referred to me as a self-professed dropout, indicating that I actually went to college and stopped attending.
When in reality, I applied for Purchase College twice and because the film program there is entirely selective, I was not selected.
So in all of your research, I found it interesting that you couldn't even get the facts about me right.
You know, it can mean Well listen, I am a college dropout even though I had a 3.8 grade average because I didn't need it.
Now Steve Watson that works in our research department has a master's degree in political science and foreign affairs, so he thinks it's an inside job too, but he has a master's degree, is it okay now?
We interviewed Dylan for the film and we showed how his film has had enormous impact and it's been viewed tens of millions of times all around the world.
And we were trying to make a serious point.
We were showing how now conspiracy theories can proliferate through the internet in a way that they couldn't have done in the past.
My first one is, you know, Guy, your narrator makes a lot of jabs about how we're disrespecting the family members and how we're going to continue to ask questions no matter how much it displeases the victims.
The list of names... The head of the biggest victims family group who lost his son in the attacks said that he believes it's an inside job.
We have the transcript and the audio on PrisonPlanet.com and he said this last year and he said that more than half of his members believe it's an inside job.
Hey, I tried to get you to talk about how the Dean of the Defense Language School said three of the hijackers trained in a secret program in 2000 in Monterey, California.
I tried to get you to cover Newsweek, where hijackers were reportedly trained at the Pensacola Naval Air Station.
I tried to get you to interview Mr. Springman, the former head of the U.S.
Embassy, who was told, let them into the U.S., they're really anti-terror fighters, and that their terror designation's a cover.
Well, I'm saying that just like people in Russia or Germany or China couldn't believe the government had gone bad, and then later they had to admit it,
I think that you have a preconceived notion, a preconceived view, and I'm saying you disregarded most of the key evidence, like 44,000 US troops and 18,000 British troops massed in Tajikistan and Uzbekistan in the four months before 9-11 and Newsweek and Associated Press reporting that Bush, the day before the attacks, had the launch orders to attack Afghanistan on his desk.
I mean, it's very difficult to answer them, some of these points, because what you're doing is you're quoting things that you claim that you've heard, and there's some things that are on the internet and... No, they're mainstream.
Well, I don't know the details of that particular story, but I do know that there are a lot of stories that are circulating on the internet that are not based on fact.
Do you know where the story of the Israelis not being in the building came from?
It came from Haratz and the Jerusalem Post, because Odigo instant messaging head said, yes, we got a call that something was going to happen, get our people out of the building, and most 9-11 researchers say that Israel clearly wasn't running the attacks, may have been in some small support role, because MI6, Mossad, Shin Bet, CIA are all joined at the hip, That's a real report that indeed there were warnings.
The Arabs weren't in the buildings either because they had warnings.
I think what you've done here, Alex, is you've raised a very interesting and important point, and that is that much of what is on the internet about 9-11 is based on news reports.
Now, those news reports are not necessarily always accurate.
What happens, as we've seen with the conspiracy theory alleging that 4,000 Jews didn't turn up for work that day, is that the story gets into the media, and then it gets twisted and distorted, like what we call in England, Chinese whispers.
And it just continues and proliferates and becomes more and more complicated.
And what we tried to do in our research was to go back to primary sources, to eyewitnesses, and we presented that information.
Now, I fully accept that many people who are listening to your program won't accept that.
All I'm asking people to do, I guess, is to watch our program with an open mind, Well, Mr. Smith says let people come to their own conclusions.
How is that possible when the program is laden with so much bias?
That's a good, healthy debate in a democratic society.
Well, Mr. Smith says let people come to their own conclusions.
How is that possible when the program is laden with so much bias?
We keep hearing this word objective.
My question is how can Mr. Smith justify using this strong implication on numerous occasions throughout the documentary that questioning the official story of 9-11 is insulting and hurtful to the victims?
How can he justify such a blatant and cynical attempt to emotionally sway the viewer when we've had Bill Doyle on the program, who is the largest representative, the largest group of 9-11 families, and it was a government cover-up in itself in the very hours after 9-11, The result of which, now we have a situation where 20% of the first responders are dying from that government cover-up.
And by the way, major medical institutions admit their lungs are full of asbestos and concrete, and we have the internal EPA documents where they were ordered to shut it down and cover it up.
That's been in all the major US newspapers, and we were called conspiracy theorists on that.
The truth is, every time the government does something wrong, they just say we're conspiracy theorists.
You had some psychological test on there where basically you're a bunch of shoddy and nuts and it's a religion.
And you had some fiction writer get up there from the Lone Gunman and the X-Files for the show, the producer, and basically say that it's a religion that we have.
No, sir.
Steel doesn't melt until over 2700 degrees.
And there were people in the wounds of those buildings, waving, begging for help, and then giant columns severed right next to them, and then there was molten steel.
Hey, I played eyewitnesses saying, get back, they're going to blow up the building.
And I've got a bunch of other clips I could play.
I give the actual witnesses, I give names, we sent you police officers, we sent you people, and you didn't interview them, and you make these large, broad-brush statements about how you've disproven what we've said, and it isn't true.
Does Mr. Smith admit that there was a bias in editing before the editing of his program, and that he had already come to the conclusion Yeah, he told me that at P.F.
You're held to a higher standard as a BBC journalist to produce a balanced programme and you've already come to a bias before you've even finished the filming.
We went into this project with an open mind and let's face it, if supposing during our research we had found that some of these conspiracy theories were true, We would have certainly put that into the film, because actually, it would have made a much more dramatic and sensational film.
We'd be all over the front page of the newspapers this morning.
I can absolutely give you an assurance that nobody is trying to censor what we were saying in this program.
And if we had found through our objective research some evidence to back up the theory that World Trade Center 7 was demolished or United 93 didn't crash at Shanksville, then we would have put that into the program.
unidentified
Well, Mr. Smith, your conclusion is not based on the evidence.
He was talking about why people believe in conspiracy theories nowadays, and I think he made a very valid point about how in the past we found it difficult to understand what was going on in our world, so we created myths, and now what we are doing is doing much the same sort of thing.
I hear what you're saying, and there are many people who will agree with you, but some of the people who oppose what you're saying and who disagree with what you're saying may ask this question, and that is, why is it that nobody in the five years since 9-11 who is involved in that conspiracy has come forward to admit their part in it?
I am absolutely convinced that if there was a Black Ops, as you say, on 9-11, it first of all would have involved not just hundreds but thousands of people.
And I'm quite sure that that Black Ops would have leaked by now.
That people, you know, tell their wives, they tell their girlfriends, they tell their priests they feel guilty about what they've done.
This was a black ops operation, if what you say is true, that was against the American people.
I'm absolutely certain that that story would have leaked out by now.
It has been leaking with firefighters and police talking about how they were told to get back that they were going to blow up building 7.
And more and more is going to leak.
And people like Sybil Edmonds who want to talk have been gagged.
And FBI agent Robert Wright has been told he'll be arrested if he tells people what he knows.
All he said is the Bush's vacation would have been live.
It's here, after a year in production and traveling to distant lands, my new film Terror Storm is complete.
Shocking declassified government documents prove that western governments are orchestrating terror attacks against their own populations as a pretext to enslave them.
Terror Storm proves that not only was 9-11 an inside job, but the attacks of 7-7 in London were carried out by British intelligence.
Terror Storm chronicles the lies that took us to war in Iran, a White House program to disseminate fake news, NSA spying, secret police torture, the latest 9-11 information, and much, much more.
Terror Storm is the definitive guide to the history of government-sponsored terrorism.
It's an anthology of government crimes.
Terror Storm is a film that everyone who wants to be truly informed must see.
Get your copy today at Infowars.com or PrisonPlanet.com or by calling toll-free 1-888-253-3139 or watch it right now online at PrisonPlanet.tv.
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Well, in a sense, Mr. Smith tags us with the label of conspiracy theories when he supports the official conspiracy theory.
And in doing so, he uses a sole clip of a firefighter on 9-11 discussing damage to Building 7's sprinkler system, while omitting literally dozens and dozens of reports.
both footage and from the official firefighter tapes who reported bombs at all levels of the Twin Towers and Building 7, and that is not part of his documentary, which suggests clear bias, because he's using individual clips to-- - Yeah, he keeps saying, "Show evidence, we show it," and then he ignores it. - The evidence that we presented in the program is the evidence that we believe to be credible,
Well, it's interesting because as well as hearing from the likes of you, I've also had many emails and calls from people who are saying that we're giving too much air time to the conspiracy theories.
So I guess You know, it's like one can't please everyone all the time.
No, we understand, and I appreciate you at least coming on this show.
Real fast, Dylan, every final question.
unidentified
Yeah, you know, throughout the documentary and throughout this interview, Guy talks a lot about following the evidence and how he feels that he covered the 9-11 truth movement, when in reality, as you mentioned, Alex, there was a glaring omission from this BBC documentary that any objective documentary would have covered.
Although he lauded the fact that two of the hijackers live with a tested FBI informant, he refused to ask Senator Bob Graham why.
On the morning of 9-11, he was meeting with George Tenet of the CIA and the head of the Pakistani ISI, who had wired Mohammed Atta, the lead hijacker, $100,000 right before the attacks.
If you would like a copy of this show, come to GCNlive.com and reserve it today, or call toll-free 877-376-45.
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We first interviewed him almost three years ago, and he's been on the case for a lot longer than that.
Yesterday, at the end of the broadcast, my radio producer walked in with the Salt Lake City Tribune headline, Nichols, McVeigh had high-level FBI help.
Here is the Desert News headline, Nichols says bomb was FBI op.
We've known this from a massive mountain of confirmed evidence since just months after the horrible attack that killed 163 people back in 1995.
But now Jesse Trinidue, on the trail of who murdered his brother in federal prison, Kenneth Trinidue, and we have the horrible autopsy photos up on Infowars.com and PrisonPlanet.com, has literally been spending much of his life on this case, has literally been spending much of his life on this case, a successful attorney and lawyer counselor in his own And I just got in touch with him this morning after I learned of this last night.
I went on coast-to-coast AM and covered it.
And he joins us now for the next 30 minutes, and I hopefully will be able to line him up for an hour early next week so we can get into more detail.
He's given us some of the documents, the case.
Those are going up on InfoWars.com right now.
This is bombshell material.
Literally, maybe once a year will my heart start beating faster with the story.
Well, now it's really broken wide open thanks to your work.
We've got three minutes before break and we'll come back and detail it all, but just out of the gate, tell us in a nutshell about yourself, about your brother, how you got involved in this case, and now the prison interview you did with Larry Nichols.
His throat was flashed all while in federal custody and the government said they tried to have his body cremated before we saw him and then finally we get him home but we never had a motive and that was difficult to say to people why the FBI especially would have killed him and tortured him.
Now, we're going to get to that later, but in the process of your investigation, you've now got the documents, the affidavit has been sealed, so you can't talk about certain names, but before it got sealed by the feds in a desperate attempt to block this evidence from coming out, we do have the names, we do have the information, because you were able to tell different news reporters about this, in particular the Desert News, Desert Ray News, before that happened, so we're going to go over this
After the break, but I want to get into how you got in contact with Larry Nichols, why he's now gone public, and by the way, his story fits exactly with what the FBI, police, investigators, and many others have brought forward in the, what, 11-plus years since the OKC bombing in 1995.
Our guest is Jesse Trinidou.
We'll be back after this quick break to detail this.
This story is ultra massive and incredibly important.
unidentified
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It was almost three years ago that I interviewed Jesse Trinidad, whose brother Kenneth Trinidad was murdered.
That's how this lawyer got on the case.
And my God, does it fit him with all the other evidence we have.
Unfortunately, it shows that the Oklahoma City bombing of the Alfred P. Murrow building was an inside job.
Here's the headline of the Desert News.
And before the filing was sealed, the reporters were able to see it.
Now, our guest is unable to specifically talk about the filing.
and uh... the most shocking allegation the nineteen page signed declaration by nickels assertion but the whole bombing plot was an fbi operation mcveigh let slip during a bout of anger that he was taking instructions from Former FBI official Larry Potts, who helped run the Ruby Ridge debacle, very senior, personal friends, very high level with the then FBI director.
McVeigh also said he was part of a secret military assassins team who've been recruited out of the military.
That's exactly the MO we have from state police, local police, detectives, and FBI.
This is absolutely off the charts, incredible, and I guess who got in and got this affidavit?
It is the man we're speaking to right now, Jesse Trinidou, got in to see Larry Nichols, and that is a saga in and of itself.
Basically, I didn't start out to solve the Oklahoma City bombing.
I started out to find out who killed my brother and why.
It all started in the Probably December of 95 or January of 96 and I got an anonymous call.
The caller said that my brother had been killed by the FBI, that it was a case of mistaken identity, that it was an interrogation and got out of hand, that my brother fit the profile, the caller said, of a group who were robbing banks.
And to fund the tax, get the money to fund the tax on the federal government.
And then about six months later, I read a story in the Los Angeles Times about a man named Richard Lee Guthrie, who was found hanging in his cell while in federal custody.
He was supposed to give a tell-all interview the next day before he died about the Oklahoma City bombing.
He was a member of a group called the Midwest Bank Robbery Gang.
And the story said he had robbed banks to attack the federal, get money to attack the federal government.
And they didn't have a photograph of Guthrie, though, just the story.
And then shortly before he was executed, I received a message from Timothy McVeigh, who told me that when he saw my brother's photograph and heard what happened to him, he knew that the FBI killed my brother because they mistook him for Richard Lee Guthrie.
And Guthrie, I believe, was John Doe, too.
In the description for my Pejando 2 when my brother was picked up was white male, 5'9", powerful upper body build, dark complected, believed to be in Canada or Mexico, driving mid-1980s Chevrolet pickup, dragon tattoo left forearm.
My brother comes across the border in San Diego in his friend's 1986 Chevrolet pickup, Five foot nine, powerful upper body build, dark complected, dragon tattoo, left forearm.
The only other person I know of with that description was Richard Lee Guthrie.
Well, as I said, it was difficult to convince people my brother had been murdered, because no one likes to think the government of the United States does those kind of things.
Well, his head was smashed to the skull in three places.
His throat was slashed.
A stun gun burns all over his body.
Even the soles of his feet are bruised from being beaten.
He's beaten head to toe, front to back, tortured extensively, and then he was We now know it was Strangle with a pair of plastic handcuffs.
After they beat him to a pulp.
And obviously he couldn't tell them anything because he didn't know anything.
But that started me on the quest to... As I said, I didn't start off to solve the bombing.
I started off to find the men who killed my brother.
But every trail has taken me back to the bombing.
And that's when I filed that lawsuit here in federal court in Utah.
Asking the judge to order the FBI to produce all documents related to a failed sting operation they were running at a white supremacist paramilitary training camp in eastern Oklahoma called Elohim City and that led to the bombing.
Let's walk through how you were able to get in touch with Nichols, how he tried to contact John Ashcroft, how the media was then blocked from ever being able to reach him, how you were able to get in, and what Larry Nichols told you.
I'm sure it did, but the real story is that this man apparently wants to tell his story.
Now, I can't assure your audiences that what he says is true.
You, sir, have more knowledge about, I mean, you're relating things about the history of the bombing case that I wasn't aware of, so you apparently have studied this a long time and know a lot about it, a lot more than I do.
That I don't feel comfortable talking about, but this I can tell you what is already out there in the public record as a result of this lawsuit that led me Uh, to go see Mr. Nichols.
Uh, when you sue under the Freedom of Information Act, there, for documents, government documents, there are two exemptions that are bulletproof that you cannot get around, that you will not get the documents.
That's, the other one, the other two are, uh, if there's an ongoing criminal investigation, Or if the government has promised anonymity or confidentiality to informants.
I was fearful that the government would come back, the FBI would come back and say they had reopened the investigation.
In which case I would have gotten nothing.
Instead they came back and told the federal judge that they had promised confidentiality to four informants.
And please not to turn over any documents.
Well the judge said he would allow them to black the names out.
But to turn the documents over.
And the documents show that the FBI's informants were robbing banks and armored cars with Tim McVeigh to get the money to construct the bomb.
And that one of the four informants was actually the explosives instructor who taught them how to make the bomb.
Now, to be specific here, this is creating the history, the ledger, and this is what McVeigh said, they were staging fake robberies to create the illusion that it was an organic, domestic group that was going to carry out the attacks.
Classic black ops, where they go out and engage in criminal activities as a smokescreen.
The, uh, as I said, the documents, uh, are, it's not me making this up.
The documents show that at least as recently as two days before the bombing that they actually called Elohim City asking for help.
And this was reported by one of the informants that four months before the bombing, another informant had not only reported the plan, but it said that they had actually scouted the target.
And, uh, so many of these things have, uh, I would not have gotten where I am today on this, but for people have, and I don't know who's, who has done it, had leaked me copies of, uh, records, and, uh... Now, there's a lot of feds that don't like killing kids in a, in a daycare.
And that made my case in front of the federal judges.
I had, unknown to the FBI, I had two copies, two documents already about this operation.
And so when I asked for the records, they came back, the FBI did, and reported to the judge that there were no such documents.
And then I filed those two copies, and then the FBI came back and said that they were fake, and I had an affidavit from an FBI agent who said they were real.
And with that, the judge lost all patience with the FBI.
And then later, didn't it turn out that similar documents and some of the same documents had been released before, but without some of the names blacked out, and then that proved they were real?
Final segment with you, sir, after this quick break.
Other key facets we'll walk through and delineate here with our guest, attorney-at-law of Jesse Trinidou, whose brother was brutally tortured to death, Kenneth Trinidou.
The bottom line is, no man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that's in the right and keeps on a-coming.
Texas Ranger Captain Bill McDonnell, we'll be right back.
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Well, first of all, again, Mr. Jones, I want to thank you.
I think you were the first person to report this story back in 2004 and didn't say it was crazy.
What I filed that affidavit for was to get an order from the judge to allow me to take the deposition of Terry Nichols and to videotape that deposition.
That's the only way his story will ever get out there.
Well, bottom line, Nichols and yourself are in grave danger while this is sealed, and I know you can't violate this federal proceeding in a seal order, but I mean, these documents, you just said it, the defense detailing inside job, did the federal documents detail that?
I think my feeling is that the FBI had Fumbles the ball so badly at Wake on Ruby Ridge that I do remember this, that they were under constant pressure and criticism from Congress and from the media and from the public.
I think they put together this harebrained idea at Elohim City to lure in all these militia groups under the pretense of teaching them how to rob banks and armored cars and attack the federal government.
And I think they plan to catch them in the act.
I don't, for a moment, think they intended The bombings take place?
Well, that's what the BATF tried to leak and claim.
The same thing every time they get caught in England with British Intel carrying out attacks, they always claim they just missed it.
And let me tell you, sir, I've studied this.
They may tell some of their BATF that showed up in bomb gear a minute after the bomb went off, but for the insiders, they meant to bomb it the whole time.
You know, that building was blown from the inside out.
Well, my experience, at least in this case, has been whenever you have three people who get together to criticize the federal government, two of them will be informants.
I mean, the accusations I made against the FBI are that they set up this operation, that they had informants who robbed banks with McVeigh to fund the attack, that they had an informant who was the explosive instructor and taught them how to make the bomb, and they got away from them.
They have not once denied those accusations.
They have just begged this federal judge not to order the release of the documents.
Now, clearly, if I made those accusations against you, wouldn't you have denied them?
Then we have Danny Colson who claimed he got up there in just an hour or so from Dallas by car with the hotel receipt that he was there the night before.
Well, so one other thing I might add is it's my understanding that the BBC is going to run an hour special on the bombing and perhaps the government's involvement.
Thank you so much for your courage, Jesse Trenadue.
Let me talk to you for one minute off air.
Thank you for joining us.
unidentified
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It's scary too to do what we do because we're going toe-to-toe with these guys.
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I would have been all over this story and been on the phone with Trinidou yesterday and I would have had Trinidou on Coast-to-Coast AM with me last night.
I didn't even think to call Coast-to-Coast AM to get on the show.
I didn't think to even call Trinidad, even though he was in the article and I broke the story, as you heard him say, because I was too busy down at the law office filing lawsuits on someone, which makes me even madder at them for the lies they put out that I have to spend all this money to get my good name back!
The Wisconsin professor who's been all over national and international television exposing 9-11.
And then I don't even know now if I want to have that Cliff Kincaid neo-con and conservative clothing on in the third hour, but I've got him coming on just so you can hear the type of stuff these people put out.
So that's coming up.
And there is just so much going on.
I don't even know what to say.
Let me just read over these articles now to give you some more background on Oklahoma City.
Because this is a direct line into 9-11.
Nichols McVeigh had high-level FBI help.
Oklahoma City bombing conspirator Terry Nichols says a high-ranking FBI official apparently was directing Timothy McVeigh and the plot to blow up a government building and might have changed the original target of the attack according to a new affidavit filed in U.S.
District Court in Utah.
The official and other conspirators are being protected by the federal government in a cover-up to escape its responsibility for the loss of life in Oklahoma.
Nichols claims in the February 9th lawsuit.
Affidavit for the lawsuit.
And let me just add, I was talking to Jesse Trinidad during that three-minute break, and he added some more points.
He said that he was out of time, he had to go to court, but that he never has been called a kook, never been called a liar, never been demonized by the FBI.
They're just desperately trying to ignore him.
Well, the ignoring him is over.
The ignoring him is over.
The official and other conspiracists are being protected by the federal government.
Documents that supposedly help back up his allegations have been sealed to protect information in them, to protect the informants, such as social security numbers and dates of birth.
The U.S.
Attorney's Office in Utah had no comment on the allegations.
The FBI and Justice Department in Washington, D.C.
also declined comment.
Nichols does not say what motive the government would have to be involved in the bombing.
The affidavit was filed in a lawsuit brought by Salt Lake City Attorney Jesse Trinidou, who believes his brother's death in a federal prison was linked to the Oklahoma City bombing.
The lawsuit, which seeks documents from the FBI under the Federal Freedom of Information Act, alleges that authorities mistook Kenneth Trinidou for a bombing conspiracy And that guards killed him in an interrogation that got out of hand.
Yeah, uh, no, that's not what he says.
FBI went in and killed him and tortured him to death.
Trinidad's death a few months after the April 19th, 1995 bombing was ruled a suicide after several investigations.
The government has adamantly denied any wrongdoing in the death.
Uh, why didn't the article, uh, well, why didn't they publish the photos?
I know for a fact Trinidad gave him the photos.
They're up on InfoWars.com.
He's got the, uh, double point shock Wounds all over his body, under his arms, of course we don't post these, but genitals, feet, huge, what looked like electrical burns where the prods weren't working, so they just hooked something up to a wall outlet, slit his throat, beat his whole head in, just, I mean, this guy's purple from end to end.
In the app today, but Nichols says he wants to bring closure to the survivors and families of the attack in the Alford B. Murrah building.
Which took 168 lives.
He alleges that he wrote then-Attorney General John Ashcroft in 2004, offering to help him identify all parties who played a role in the bombing, but never got a reply.
Nichols, serving a life sentence at the U.S.
Penitentiary Administrative Maximum Facility in Florence, Colorado.
McVeigh, who carried out the bombing, was executed in 2001.
McVeigh and Nichols were the only defendants indicted in the bombing.
However, Nichols alleges others were involved.
McVeigh told him he was recruited for undercover missions while serving in the military, according to Nichols.
He says he learned sometime in 95 that there had been a change in the bomb target, and it was going to be Nebraska, Omaha, Dallas, they were looking at different places, that there had been a change in the bombing target, and McVeigh was very upset by that.
There, in what I believe was an actual slip of the tongue, McVeigh revealed the identity of a high-ranking FBI official who was apparently directing McVeigh and the bomb plot, Nichols says in the affidavit.
So again, two newspapers have seen this, now they've sealed it.
Too late!
Nichols also says that McVeigh threatened him and his family to force him to rob Roger Moore, an Arkansas gun dealer of weapons and explosives.
He later learned that the robbery was staged, so Moore, who was in on the phony heist, could deny any knowledge of the bombing plot if stolen items were traced back to him, Nichols claims.
He adds that Moore allegedly told his attorney that he would not be prosecuted in connection with the bombing because he was a protected witness, and there's federal documents.
Moore could not be reached for comment Tuesday.
Again, they did the research Tuesday, this came out yesterday morning, Wednesday, it's now Thursday.
In addition, Nichols says McVeigh must have had help building the bomb.
The evidence that he and McVeigh built the day before the bombing did not resemble the one that ultimately was used, Nichols says, and displayed a level of expertise and sophistication that neither man had.
There's a lot more than what this article put.
You just heard the lawyer who's got the affidavit filed, did the day and a half of interviews with him.
Now let's read the DesertNews.com story.
All these are up on InfoWars.com and PrisonPlanet.com with a whole bunch of pages of documents, federal documents, for the first time being posted at InfoWars.com right now.
Boy, that's an interesting headline out of a mainstream newspaper.
Detailed confession filed in Salt Lake about Oklahoma City plot.
The only surviving convicted criminal in the April 19, 1995 bombing of the Alfred P. Murrow Federal Building in Oklahoma City is saying his co-conspirator, Timothy McVeigh, told him he was taking orders from a top FBI official and orchestrating the bombing.
let me say that again, told him that he was taking orders from a top FBI official in orchestrating the bombing.
A declaration from Terry Lynn Nichols filed in U.S. District Court in Salt Lake City has proven he wanted the most detailed confessions by Nichols to date about his involvement in the bombing as well as the involvement of others.
The declaration was filed as part of a Salt Lake City attorney, Jesse Trinidue's pending wrongful death suit against the government for the death of his brother in federal corrections facility in Oklahoma City.
Trinidou claims his brother was killed during an interrogation by FBI agents when agents mistook his brother for a suspect in the Oklahoma City bombing investigation.
The most shocking allegation in the 19-page signed declaration is Nichols' assertion that the whole bombing plot was an FBI operation and that McVeigh let slip during a bout of anger that he was taking instruction from former FBI official Larry Potts of Ruby Ridge fame.
Potts was no stranger to anti-government confrontations, having been the lead FBI agent in Ruby Ridge in 92, which led to the shooting death of Vicki Weaver, the wife of separatist Randy Weaver.
Potts also reportedly involved in the 51-day siege of the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas in 93, which resulted in the fire that killed 81 Branch Davidian followers.
He's now a former FBI agent, by the way.
He was an FBI agent, former retired, past retired from the FBI under intense pressure and criticism for the cover-up of an order to allow agents to shoot anyone seen leaving the Weaver cabin at Ruby Ridge.
When contacted, the FBI's main office in D.C.
said it would not provide immediate comment on Nichols' claims Tuesday.
Nichols claims that in December 1992, McVeigh told him that while he was serving in the U.S.
Army, he'd been recruited to carry out undercover missions for the Secret Assassination Squad.
What did I tell you, folks?
Men formerly associated with special forces.
In the next few years, I've had these guys following me, and they've even threatened me.
Hey man, I'm an American defending the Republic.
You do whatever you need to, criminals.
And you'll see what they'll do to you later.
In the next few years, the two men hatched a bombing plot in October 94.
You think it's manly to kill people, don't you?
Kill good people.
You kill me, you got God to deal with, punks.
In the next few years, the two men hatched a bombing plot.
In October, 1994, McVeigh and I stole explosives from a quarry in Marion, Kansas, consisting of eight-and-a-half cases of boxes containing 229 two-and-a-half-inch sticks of gel-type explosive known as Tovex.
Again, they told everybody it was fuel oil.
Ha ha ha!
Nichols wrote, adding that only a small amount was used in the actual bombing.
It was while traveling the gun show circuit that Nichols claims the two obtained bomb-making knowledge and materials used in the bombing.
And of course that was an FBI informant teaching them for the diversionary bomb.
There were bombs inside.
One example is that McVeigh allegedly...
Attended a gun show in Knob Creek, Kentucky in 93.
At this gun show, McVeigh had the opportunity to make contact with about 20 people who were bomb experts.
McVeigh told me that he himself had no knowledge about how to construct a bomb, but that he always wanted to gain more knowledge about how to conduct bombs.
"Struck bombs," Nichols stated.
Nichols says he knew McVeigh was building the bomb in November '94.
He left for the Philippines to get away from the area to avoid being implicated.
"I did not want to be present when McVeigh did explode a bomb.
Consequently, I left for the Philippines to be out of the country," he wrote.
This is basically the newspaper whitewash of all this, folks.
Now, the statement contradicts findings by Congressman Dino Rohrabacher, who studied the bombing, has made public last year, It indicated Nichols had traveled to the Philippines to receive bomb training from impossible foreign terrorists.
Yeah, that's the Republican fallback.
They had Iraqi Republican Guard clearly involved.
This is how black ops work, folks.
You've got white supremacists, you've got militias, you've got sheet-dipped Special Forces McVeigh, you've got bank robbers running around.
But you've got Arabs at the scene and those videotapes have been sealed, but I've interviewed the police and others and FBI's on record saying they saw the sealed surveillance tapes showing the Arabs.
So then it gets so confusing, you're like, did the mob kill JFK?
Did the military?
Did the Cubans?
No, they're all involved.
That's how black ops work.
You have different levels of deniability.
Then you got bombs inside that Jane Graham, who was the head of HUD, was going through one of the maintenance sides to get up quicker.
She was late to work and she saw guys drilling the columns, planting large sticks of gray butter the day before.
After hearing about the bombing of the Federal Building, which killed 168 adults and children, Nichols said he panicked when his name came up on the radio and he wanted to turn himself in, but not before hiding evidence, including explosives, using the bombing.
The claims may, in the declaration, have added yet more twist to the mystery surrounding the bombing.
Some familiar with the bombing's history.
Sir Nichols' claims seem to indicate the FBI put McVeigh up to the plot as a draw for radicals, but that the situation got out of control and McVeigh became a runaway informant.
That is not what happened.
That's their fallback story.
It always is.
I mean, how many of those British bombings, oh, we didn't stop it in time.
Then you turn out the guy cooking the bombs, British intel.
The guy driving is British intel.
We've had those men on the show, by the way.
After reviewing the declaration, Rohrabacher told the Desert Warning News that Nichols' claims should be investigated by the tree with extreme skepticism.
I need to caution people to remember that Terry Nichols is a mass murderer.
Of course, Rohrabacher, a month ago, was on CNN going, there's a conspiracy, a cover-up of Oklahoma.
Clinton, Clinton.
Clearly, Clinton was involved.
But this goes deeper to the black-op government.
Ruby Ridge was planned under George Bush Sr.
George Bush Sr.
brought in the nearly 3,000 Iraqis.
Clinton brought in almost 2,000 more.
They were trained here by the CIA in the 80s, brought back in at the end of Desert Storm.
Source, Washington Post, LA Times, Social Press.
Then there's stuff like this, WorldNet Daily.
Was FBI early arrival in Oklahoma City?
Hotel receipts show top terror man showed up nine hours before blast.
Danny Colson was in the DFW Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex area and he said that oh he couldn't get on the Southwest Airlines in time to fly up there so he drove and got there in a record two hours but then people reported he was there in less than an hour after the bombing.
Now that's on record.
Then it turns out he checked into a hotel Nine hours before the blast, the FBI's top counter-terrorism agent checked into an Oklahoma City hotel nearly nine hours before a truck bomb nearly leveled the Alpha P Murrah building, according to a receipt obtained by WorldNet Daily, despite claims that he was in Texas the morning of the attack.
The Embassy Suites Hotel, Danny Coulson, then director of the FBI's Terrorism Task Force, founding commander of the Bureau's Hostage Rescue Team, was dated April 19, 1995, with a check-in time of 0.20 or 1220 AM.
The existence of the receipt and subsequent questions it raises surrounding the F.P.I.' 's official denial of prior knowledge of the O.K.C.
bombing was first reported by J.D.
Cash of the McMurton Oklahoma Daily Gazette, a small town paper that has been out front in the stories and O.K.C.
related reports.
Since the bombing, listen to this, officials at the Department of Justice have repeatedly assured victims that the F.P.I.
had no prior knowledge of any plot to bomb the Murrah Building.
My paper said Wednesday, however, evidence of Coulson's clandestine trip fits squarely with substantial bodies of details found in hundreds of pages of other official documents obtained via Freedom of Information Act requests.
The paper is evidence revealing weeks of planning by an elite corps of drug and counter-terrorism experts who were closely monitoring members of various far-right groups that considered religious extremists and threats to the safety and security of our nation.
So there's their spin.
They were shadowing them, yes.
And helping them rob banks, too.
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After a year in production and traveling to distant lands, my new film Terror Storm is complete.
Shocking declassified government documents prove that western governments are orchestrating terror attacks against their own populations as a pretext to enslave them.
Terror Storm proves that not only was 9-11 an inside job, but the attacks of 7-7 in London were carried out by British intelligence.
Terror Storm chronicles the lies that took us to war in Iran, a White House program to disseminate fake news, NSA spying, secret police torture, the latest 9-11 information, and much, much more.
Terror Storm is the definitive guide to the history of government-sponsored terrorism.
It's an anthology of government crimes.
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unidentified
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Coming up in studio, Kevin Barrett out there fighting the new old order toe-to-toe, exposing the inside job that is 9-11.
His new book, 9-11 in American Empire, Christian, Jews, and Muslims speak out. .
Before we end this hour, I do want to remind all of you that I'm a documentary filmmaker, and my film, Road to Tyranny, was the first film out on 9-11.
I put out an emergency version of it that was only available for a few months.
Two weeks after 9-11, which was just a presentation with video clips, then three months later, in early 2002, I released the three-hour film, which right under three hours, 45 minutes of 9-11, The Road to Tyranny, is the definitive documentary on Oklahoma City alone.
Surveillance tape.
Of the Iraqi Republican Guard hired by the CIA, brought in by George Bush Sr.
In case locals caught them, they were going to claim Arabs did it.
And I've interviewed the police, the state police.
They even arrested them.
They had bomb-making materials, the blue jogging suits.
They had the surveillance videos from the surrounding areas.
I have police surveillance.
They shot in the weeks before.
You also had white supremacists involved.
All these groups, so they could blame different groups for it later, but it was entirely a government bombing with a diversionary provocateur truck bomb outside with explosives inside blowing the building out.
General Benton K. Parton's in the film.
All the clips, all the documentation, the newscast where they're reporting unexploded bombs and they're removing the bombs.
Governor Keating breaking it down.
You need to get road to tyranny just for the 45 minutes of the almost three hours.
So, we start the film with a history of government-sponsored terror.
We then go into Oklahoma City.
We, of course, go into the attack in 1993, where the FBI cooked the bomb, trained the drivers, provocateur-ed the whole incident with the attack there.
And then of course we go into 9-11 where they can't count on provocateurs anymore or patsies.
They just totally staged the event themselves and we walk through that and then show you why they wanted to do it, the police state and the wars they wanted to start.
And we said in the film in 2002 they're going to invade Iraq and they're going to invade other countries, Iran, Syria, because we went off the PNAC, documents themselves.
Early 2002, it is a testament.
The film just gets better with time, more and more accurate with time as things flesh out.
You need to get 9-11 The Road to Tyranny if you don't have it on DVD or VHS.
It's over three hours with the extras.
That the film is close to three hours and it's got about, what, 30 minutes of extras at the end than I did because it's more of a second edition than I did later in 2002.
There's only been three editions of it, but that's the final edition of Road to Tyranny.
All three of my Police State films are now in a box set for $34.95.
That's 45% off.
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One of the films is three hours long.
The others are over two.
So we're talking about almost ten hours of footage on those three DVDs in one box set, available at Infowars.com.
We've got 9-11 Inside Job, InfoWars.com, black baseball caps now available.
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The toll-free number to call and order the films as well is 1-888-253-3139.
1-888-253-3139.
That's 888-253-3139.
Or you can also write to me.
I'm Alex Jones at 3001 South Lamar, Suite 100, Austin, Texas, 78704.
And don't forget all my films.
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Second hour, 70 seconds away with Kevin Barrick. .
Copies of the preceding broadcast are available at GCNlive.com or call toll free 877-376-45.
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The Helios Society has tried to, they've been robbed once, and there's been fire bombings as well of the doctor who worked in the prisons in Little Rock, and so there's been some strange deaths as well.
So yeah, people have been trying, but again, the murders and the fire bombings didn't stop it from coming out.
unidentified
Okay, okay, excellent.
Would you ever have David Suzuki on your show to discuss global warming?
I'm just curious if he would agree with you about the solution that they're proposing, or if he would be saying it's not 3%, it's 10%, that kind of stuff.
I mean, there's a bunch of different studies, and even the U.N.
study says, well, humans are 6% of it, but it still is the tipping point.
The sun's heating up.
And then the point is, regardless, regardless, their solution of a global tax has nothing to do with it.
That's all I'm saying!
unidentified
No, I agree.
I agree.
My next question has to do with Ron Paul and Mike Rivera has been talking about the Jefferson Manual and that it takes one governor to start the impeachment procedures.
It's here after a year in production and traveling to distant lands.
Mighty Film Terror Storm is complete.
Shocking declassified government documents prove that western governments are orchestrating terror attacks against their own populations as a pretext to enslave them.
Terror Storm proves that not only was 9-11 an inside job, but the attacks of 7-7 in London were carried out by British intelligence.
Terror Storm chronicles the lies that took us to war in Iran, a White House program to disseminate fake news, NSA spying, secret police torture, the latest 9-11 information, and much, much more.
Terror Storm is the definitive guide to the history of government-sponsored terrorism.
It's an anthology of government crimes.
Terror Storm is a film that everyone who wants to be truly informed must see.
unidentified
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Bus Explosion Witness Account00:12:39
unidentified
Big Brother.
Mainstream media.
Government cover-ups.
You want answers?
Well, so does he.
He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. ladies and gentlemen.
And for the balance of the hour, I'm extremely honored to be joined by Steve Watson of Infowars.net and PrisonPlanet.com from London, England, and Daniel Obuchacki, also joining us from England.
Now, let me just set the table here.
On the morning of 7-7-2005, three bombs blew up, destroying three different train passenger carriages, killing quite a few people, tragically.
Over an hour later, a bus that had been specifically singled out and redirected, and these reports had already come out by other witnesses, exploded, causing quite a few deaths and injuries.
And then it came out that the former head of Scotland Yard's Public Relations, Peter Powers, had been hired to run a drill for the exact same trains, exact same times, being bombed, the exact same day.
And we've had the actuary mathematics done on that.
It's in the Trek to Gillian's.
That's 43 zeros, my friends, behind it.
That's many, many more times, billions of times more than all the grains of sand in all the world.
On 9-11, they're doing a drill of flying hijacked jets in the World Trade Center and Pentagon at the exact same time yet again as well.
It's always the same MO.
They do this in case other compartments of the government discover it.
The other operatives can just say, hey, we're taking part in a drill.
It also bootlegs the funding It also creates chatter that confuses Echelon, InfoPole 9, the NSA, MI6, the different listening stations.
So if they pick up on it, they can say, oh, that's just the drill, too.
There are hundreds of points concerning the London bombing.
First they said that it was simultaneous and they said no it wasn't simultaneous.
It turned out they were correct.
It was simultaneous bombings on all three of the trains.
Something went wrong.
We had surmised from all the evidence something hadn't detonated on the bus.
People reported there was not an Asian man down there.
People reported that suddenly there was just an explosion.
Folks had reported that the bus had been singled out and diverted.
I talked to bus drivers who'd heard about it.
I talked to technicians who worked in that bus terminal about strange things and strange technicians working on that bus.
And so we, from the evidence we had, something hadn't gone off simultaneously in the bus, so they redirected it.
While they were redirecting it, to make sure it went off from all the evidence we have, MI6, MI5, or some private agency that was carrying this out, clearly in collusion with the government, needed time to cover up what was happening with the bus because something had gone wrong.
So for an hour and several minutes, they were announcing a power surge had caused some type of explosions.
Now you've got three blown up trains, dead people everywhere.
They're coming out, bleeding, dying.
They're telling everyone bombs went off.
and the police are saying no no no it's a power search While, meanwhile, black sedans, blue sedans, motorcycles are directing this particular bus, the Hackney bus, to Tavistock Park, Tavistock Square.
On board that bus is Daniel Obocecki, and Daniel
is there and he's now going to tell you what he witnessed and this is a eyewitness now other eyewitnesses interviewed by police and again most police aren't involved in this that's why we have Scotland Yard going we don't think these guys knew they had bombs we don't think that they were suicide bombers we think someone gave them these packages but then you got the problem of one of the bombers passports uh... ID cards being found at two different bombings and somebody messed up in the planting
You've got Benjamin Netanyahu being admitted to Associated Press at least 30 minutes before getting a call and being told, don't get on the trains, stay in your hotel room.
This is all on record.
You've got Giuliani there when this happens.
All very suspicious folks.
Same people, same players.
This is so disgusting.
And so we have Daniel there on the bus and he's going to tell you what he witnessed.
This is huge.
I cannot hype this enough.
I know Steve's working on a part two of this, so I want to bring up Daniel.
Tell us a little bit about yourself, and then give us a nutshell, give us a thumbnail sketch of what happened on that bus that morning, what you witnessed, and then any more details that you haven't already given us for the InfoWars.net story.
And I first want to say, thank you for your courage, sir.
Tell us first about yourself and how you got the courage to go public.
I was born, bred, work in London and that day I was on my way to work in Old Street and there was some kind of disruption going on.
We were told it was a power surge and we were evacuated and that's how I became to be on the bus.
And then after that the bus left Houston full of passengers who were Also evacuated and the bus seemed to be going nowhere so I looked out of the Because I was standing on the lower deck, because I wasn't sure whether I was on the correct bus.
And then I peered ahead and I saw these two cars, which were a Mercedes and a BMW, blue and black, which seemed to be in front of the bus, holding it up.
And it was diverted about four or five minutes later, down towards Tavistock Square.
And I think the results are quite evident for everyone else to see what took place in Tavistock Square.
Well, after the explosion, you can understand, I was on the floor, so it took about five seconds until the noise had actually quietened down, and then I just got up, and then I ran and escaped and ran and then I just got up, and then I ran and escaped and ran
After a few paces down the street, I saw a man holding a camera, it looked like a camcorder, who was walking towards me, filming the bus itself.
I was confused by this, and I stopped and skidded to a halt and looked left to right and what was going on.
Then I looked behind me and I saw the bus, the upper deck of which had been completely destroyed by the bomb explosion.
Um, and then I just, I think at that point my, my mind must have just changed into some kind of, I was really not frightened, but I was aware that something amiss was going on and I was just looking at the people moving into the actual space on the square.
There were guys who were hanging around.
There was a row of policemen who were just standing there in yellow fluorescent suits, jackets.
They weren't doing anything.
They were just watching.
There was this guy filming, and I'm saying, what is going on here?
It didn't feel right.
So, um, I actually went and helped some woman who had been walking beside the bus.
She was covered in blood.
And then I helped her to get some kind of help at a hotel which was further down the square.
And I passed this gentleman who seemed to have acquired some kind of injuries, but I can understand for the life of me how this was possible, because he was 40, 50 meters away from the bus itself.
So he was making a lot of noise and trying to get people's attention, but I just saw his actual injuries as fake.
Well, he had a bandage around his head, and his trouser leg had been lit neatly along the seam, and he was rolling on the pavement.
This was 50 meters away from the bus itself.
The bus bomb itself blew backwards.
So one lady who was at the back where I was standing, I was standing in the center of the bus or by the window, she actually died, and someone walking behind the bus also died.
So the bus blew backwards.
The bomb blew backwards.
So this guy, it was just a complete fake injury, and he was just some guy who was, I don't know what his role was, specifically.
There were a lot of people observing, I noted.
Some people were running forward, the medical staff and the medical professionals were.
You could tell who they were because they were trying to see what they could do for people.
Half of them, some people were just, they weren't going to make it.
Some people, they were trying to do something for them.
But then there were these other people who were just wondering.
How many seconds, I mean, how long did it take you to get out of the bus, and then how long did it take you, because you say 60 seconds, to then notice that this guy is way up the street with a bandage on his head rolling around?
So within 25 seconds, I had witnessed the cameraman and about 15 seconds after that I actually noted this chap so it was within 45 seconds he was actually with some kind of headband and lying on the street.
I don't know how he got there because if it was a bus blast he must have been flung about 40 to 50 feet and that is not really feasible with the injuries which he was displaying.
Okay, there were about four Guys in blue bottoms and who had rucksacks, they were kind of foot soldier types.
There were about two or three people who were just standing in the doorway, just watching everything.
And there was another guy who was coordinating everything, coordinating, he was in plainclothes and coordinating police when they finally came forward to actually do something.
And what am I going to do when I'm out on the lake?
Now the whole vacation is ruined.
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This is America Little Peace Born and bred Londoner.
Daniel Obachack, he is our guest, born and bred Londoner.
Talking during the break, it was just unbelievably powerful.
I remember making Terrorstorm and saying to Rob, my editor here in the office, I go, that photo looks fake.
Bandages all over his face, thinly placed, no blood except on his chest, and it looked like it was put on out of a ketchup dispenser, little squirters that you use just kind of dribble down the front.
And so many times my instincts are right.
Well, it turns out that's the individual that, within 60 seconds, was flopping around and prancing around in front of cameras and all the waiting police.
And notice, though, they didn't... All over every major newspaper in the world, all over every major television network in the world, every news program in the world, no one interviewed him, no one said, where is he now?
No one said his name.
Everybody else they showed bloodier bleeding.
A day later, they'd say, here's their name.
Not him.
And now the photo's being jerked.
unidentified
everywhere please relay and repeat the words you told me during the break daniel please in your own words lay this out yeah um this guy he he was the one that got my kind of curiosity going because i walked past there with this escorting this woman who was hurt and then i saw him he had this bandage around his head
his leg seemed to his child's leg was torn and this was within 45 less than 60 seconds after the explosion a time before any medical staff had come forward and the thing about him was he He just seemed so fake, so I thought this man must have had prior knowledge, prior intelligence, and he was positioned here.
For what reason?
I don't know.
Then I conducted a search of my own online because a few days after the 7th of July, his picture, his image was everywhere.
And about a month ago, I looked and it had been totally pulled.
I mean, it wasn't on any of the BBC websites.
It wasn't on Any of the international news sites, you just couldn't find this guy.
I actually spent about two days searching, and then I got two images of him, and that's what you see on WorldWideWebTheFourthBomb.com, which is my site where the truth and the facts of what happened in Tavistock Square that day are.
Now, again, your story meshes with all the other witnesses, all the other evidence we have, but I want to be clear before we bring Steve Watson up in the next segment, who wrote this with you, and I really am thankful for his great journalistic skills and your courage.
Going back, specifics, slow down, take your time.
When you see the blue and black Mercedes and the motorcycle cop and the discussion with the bus driver and it's redirected, let's go back to when they first directed you in the bus to Tavistock Square.
The bus was... Just slow down and describe everything to me.
Just slow down and tell me how they pulled up, what they did, what they, you know, what their body motions were like, just everything, what they looked like.
This is absolutely vital, and we're trying to keep this man safe right now by him getting his entire story out in more detail.
I'm Alex Joves, battling the New World Order at point-blank range.
unidentified
We're on the march.
The Empire's on the run.
Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network.
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I know that it's not big and spectacular like 9-11, but a lot of people died and it was used when the British nation was refusing to go along with the war in Iraq when Tony Blair had barely hung on to his position when he had lost almost the entire majority that the Labour Party had in Parliament.
And it came right when they were having their big G8 Summit in Glen Eagles.
And it was used as a grandstanding platform to say, see the terrorists are hitting us, we've got to get tough.
And every indices, every piece of evidence, even Scotland Yard and other police forces who had real detectives out were going, these guys weren't suicide bombers, that's buried in the newspaper.
These guys, we think somebody planted this stuff on them or they didn't know, they don't fit the M.O.
There was a bomb under one of the trains, not in it.
Eyewitnesses said that.
You add all these, there's hundreds of points.
We put them in the film Terror Storm, that I hope you'll get from Infowars.com.
That's why it's so important we spend about 30 minutes of the two-hour film, or a little bit more than 30 minutes, in London, documenting this.
And we even show shots of newsstands.
We were there two weeks after the attacks.
And we show newsstands where there's literally like 15, 20 newspapers and magazines, and it's all Pictures of the bombing, and half of them are this guy with the thin, one layer of bandage.
Understand folks, I've worked for a large animal vet, my dad's a neurosurgeon, I've been in hospitals, I've worked around it, I've worked in the medical field when I was in college as a dental assistant, but even if you haven't, you know common sense.
You don't take thin gauze bandage.
Thin gauze.
One layer.
One layer.
And if you even put that on a scuff on your knee that really doesn't bleed but kind of just seeps, you know, when you're playing touch football and you fall down on your knee and it just kind of seeps.
I mean, even if it was just seeping, just a microscopic graze, it would stick to his face.
No, it appears to be a cap woven heavily on the top and then just thin, thin one straps around his face.
Like it was some type of already woven helmet he just put on his head.
45 to 60 seconds after the blast, he's flopping around, way towards the front, 50 yards north of it.
There's other people videotaping, spook types walking around, and then no interviews with him, we never learn his name, he's just, you remember the guy with the bandage.
And those eyes have it all.
Ferret-like, scanning, calculating.
And I just remember going, man, that is, something's going on.
That doesn't look right.
And then he has like a potato, a ketchup bottle, you know, that you spray onto your potatoes.
You spray onto your french fries.
It, like a dribble on his shirt.
And you take movies like The Quiet American by Graham Greene, which is based on real events.
They just changed the names.
That's when the Times of London reporter, who's based there in southern Vietnam, he's been recruited by the CIA guy.
He doesn't know he's CIA.
And the CIA guy is actually running terror attacks to blame it on the North to escalate the war.
This is before the war really kicks off in the late 19...
Fifties, and it's based on true stories, that really happened.
And then all of a sudden, he doesn't know, he doesn't know the guy's CIA, and suddenly these bombings blow up in the square and kill all these women and children.
And then he's running around, the CIA guy, giving orders in Vietnamese.
And the Times of London writer just goes, and just leans back and realizes, well, literally, the man you're listening to right now saw something just like you see in that movie.
Just like what you see in that fictionalized account of real events in Vietnam.
Okay?
That's why this is so important.
Daniel, I want to go to Steve Watson and bring him up for any questions he's had.
He's been holding for 20 minutes.
But I'd like you to then talk about what happened in a nutshell after all of this.
What started happening from that point on, please, sir?
Well, it took the Police Investigating Anti-Terrorist Branch of Scotland Yard seven months to question me.
I actually called them, contacted the Emergency Information Hotline the following day, but they didn't get back to me until the end of January 2006.
and I just felt it was as though they were trying to whitewash me to make out that I was not even there to actually completely make it look as though I was not even on board the bus.
You started by following me when I came out of my office on lunch breaks.
They were waiting on the corner.
There's a place called the Honorable Artillery.
Um, barracks.
And that's 10 minutes from where I worked.
And that's where they kept all the dead bodies from the 7-7 attacks.
So the police outside there, every time I used to walk past, they used to have something to say, call my name or something like that.
And I think it was just a campaign trying to put psychological stress and pressure upon me because, obviously, If it came down to me testifying, they want me to be deemed unfit to testify or something like that.
But I think they just didn't want a public inquiry anyway.
So they got their own way and there was no public inquiry.
So I just tried to escape from him by You know I just thought here, see and I'm stupid, my instinct was I would have gotten a fight but you're smart because by then you knew it was police and actually they would have then got you claiming you just assaulted an officer and you know the 50 cameras on you in the surveilled city of four and a half million would have all malfunctioned and they would have claimed you assaulted an officer.
That's what they were trying to do all along, because they asked my flatmate whether I had any criminal convictions.
They were already delving into my background and my past, trying to find out whether I had any kind of dodgy or criminal past or tendencies or convictions, and I think they were trying to use that as a kind of weapon with which they could climb.
I was just going to say, why do you think it is that the police didn't ask you to come in and give a statement straight away?
It was later revealed that They relied on the testimony of people who were at the scene, but, you know, they were either injured or even unconscious in some cases.
And also, could you talk about, you know, some of the phone calls that you got from, you said you got some phone calls from different police departments across the country.
Yeah, they were from the West Yorkshire Police Constabulary.
They were the police constabulary investigating the four alleged bombers and one of them He decided to call me one evening and suggest something which I couldn't make out.
I said, hey, you've got the wrong number, guy.
And he continued and called the following day and I recorded it and posted it on the web.
It just says that I had a vehicle which was involved with transporting something or other to do with the investigation into the 7-7 bombing.
Um, it, it was just, it wasn't as much as I had hoped it would.
They just took my details, but what they did was, um, he rushed through it.
It took four hours, but he rushed through it.
He was, it wasn't really as if they were depending on my information and eyewitness accounts.
As a vital part of the inquiry, because of course they'd already completed their inquiries, or whatever they wanted to say were their inquiries months ago.
So what they did was they waited until they'd worked out their story, and then kept me running, and then brought me in and just said, hey, okay, what's your story?
Uh, the diagram, um, are you talking about which one?
Because there's been quite a few.
Oh yeah, the bus diagram, which they, um, asked me to, um, sign.
The bus diagram which they asked me to mark out, um, where the people were sitting on the bus and where the people were standing and what happened on the bus, it, the diagram was the complete Wrong layout for the bus.
And I said to the anti-terrorist branch detective who was taking my statement, this is completely incorrect.
So by me signing this, that's just going to make, just going to render everything which I've told you inadmissible.
So I think it was just a ploy.
They didn't really want my information, as you would understand.
Yeah, I would also point out that, you know, Daniel had a shirt, which I believe he still has, with, you know, victim's blood on it, which should have been taken for forensic testing, but they weren't even interested in that either.
It's just they've worked out previously You know, a line to take on this, and they weren't deviating from the line, even though you've got, you know, a first-hand witness here saying this is incorrect.
You've got a layout of the bus which is incorrect.
I mean, if this doesn't tell us that we need an independent inquiry on this, then what else does?
Knowing what you know now, knowing all the evidence concerning government involvement or black ops involvement, intelligence involvement in past attacks and in the 7-7 attack, seeing your bus erected by these shadowy government characters, seeing people on the ground seconds after it happened, the fake bandages, what do you think was really going on there?
Yeah, I mean, if we do delve into a bit of the evidence, we've got, you know, numerous advance warnings from other intelligence agencies, from French, Spanish, the Saudis, who said, you know, gave an exact time frame for this, and Scotland Yard themselves, who, you know, told the Israeli Embassy on the very morning, minutes before that it was going to It was going to go off.
And Benjamin Netanyahu, who was in a hotel on Tavistock Square, which is a point that, you know, is often missed, he was told to stay in the hotel, which, you know, that kind of proves that they had precise location information as well.
So we need to, you know, keep working towards outing the truth on this.
Well, we need to put this guy's face up everywhere and we've got, look, we've got technologies to scan his face, do a composite by reducing to the lines beneath the bandages.
I actually know some police sketch artists who can, we can use computer mapping to get this guy's face.
This is the type of stuff we'll put a six feet under, but What the hell?
After a year in production and traveling to distant lands, my new film Terror Storm is complete.
Shocking declassified government documents prove that western governments are orchestrating terror attacks against their own populations as a pretext to enslave them.
Terror Storm proves that not only was 9-11 an inside job, but the attacks of 7-7 in London were carried out by British intelligence.
Terror Storm chronicles the lies that took us to war in Iran, a White House program to disseminate fake news, NSA spying, secret police torture, the latest 9-11 information, and much, much more.
Terror Storm is the definitive guide to the history of government-sponsored terrorism.
It's an anthology of government crimes.
Terror Storm is a film that everyone who wants to be truly informed must see.
Get your copy today on Infowars.com or PrisonPlanet.com or by calling toll-free 1-888-253-3139 or watch it right now online at PrisonPlanet.tv.
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Big John.
Big John.
Every morning at the mine you can see him arriving.
He stood six foot six and weighed 245.
Kind of broad at the shoulder and narrow at the hip.
And everybody knew he didn't give no lift to Big John.
Big John!
Big John!
Big Bad John!
Big John!
Nobody seemed to know where John called home.
He just drifted into town and stayed all alone.
Didn't say much, kind of quiet and shy, but he spoke it all.
He just said hi to Big John.
Somebody said he came from New Orleans, where he got in a fight over a Cajun queen and a crashing blow from a huge right hand sent a Louisiana fella to the promised land, Big John.
I tell you, the courage of our guest, Daniel Obuchiki, the courage of Steve Watson, they're over there in London in one of the biggest police states in the world.
I mean, you try to videotape on the street, they come over and tell you to shut it off.
They don't allow protesting now.
There's secret police everywhere.
It is certainly like something out of V for Vendetta.
But the good news is, more and more is coming out.
You know, 80-something percent know they killed Diana now.
Eighty-plus percent know they killed Dr. David Kelly.
And everybody knows they're a bunch of criminals.
And you're coming down.
Your New World Order is going to fail.
And your big, fat German commander, Sachs-Coburg-Gotha, you know, just your criminality will be exposed.
And that's just the way it is.
Daniel and Steve Watson, we've got you for a few minutes here and then five minutes the next.
I'm going to let you go.
Any other points that need to be made, please make them now.
Because I saw a little note in your narrative that you exclusively gave us, sections of the book, but you mentioned that the publisher's like, well, let's not get into the guy with the bandages, that's not too important.
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