Alex Jones hosts a heated debate on Christmas Eve 2003 regarding the morality of torture, countering Rabbi Yaakov Spivak's biblical justification with arguments that such methods mirror tyrants like Mengele and Stalin. Joined by Gerald Jack McClam and Paul Craig Roberts, the group discusses alleged government cover-ups of mad cow disease, chemtrail conspiracies involving HAARP, and the push for martial law under Rumsfeld. Ultimately, Jones frames these discussions as evidence of a New World Order using fear to expand control, promoting his documentaries on 9/11 and the Patriot Act while warning against institutionalizing abuse. [Automatically generated summary]
Welcome to This Christmas Eve edition of the Worldwide Transmission Against Tyranny.
It is Wednesday, the 24th of December, 2003.
We'll be live the next three hours.
We have Jack McClam, Police Against the New World Order, joining us to talk about the news and what we face in this global crime syndicate system in the next hour.
And we're going to have wide open phone.
Brace yourselves, the news is all extremely revealing as we chronicle the criminal activities of the global elite, also known as the New World Order.
Rumsfeld, bet your life, threat to U.S.
is serious.
This is the same guy that lies about weapons of mass destruction and mobile weapons trucks, but I take it very serious when the people Who were behind September 11th, and we have the evidence, are out there warning us of more terror.
They got Patriot missiles up in D.C., in New York.
They got tanks rolling around, armored vehicles.
They got aircraft in the skies, all part of training you that militarized society equals safety.
Security raids in cities, airports, trains, you name it.
They say Bin Laden's behind it.
Bin Laden's about to get us.
Why, this is the most serious it's ever been!
Meanwhile, Bush has announced what we already knew was public, total legalization of anyone that gets here.
In fact, if you're an illegal alien, and you come here illegally, you get citizenship and a green card, and then citizenship faster than someone who came here legally.
It's total legalization.
Ridge, a few weeks ago, said they were going to do this.
Lord Bush has announced it.
Already tried it two weeks before 9-11.
ABC News, suicide bomber threat turns out to be false.
I want to go over their false terror alerts of the past.
Also, family sue.
U.S.
reject 9-11 bribe.
That's the Toronto Star headline.
U.S.
government trying to bribe the victims' families of 9-11 to keep their mouths shut.
And I'm sure you've already heard something we already knew for many years.
Colonel Craig Roberts will tell you that his father died of the human mad cow disease.
I've seen death certificates right here in Austin.
Death certificates!
I've shown them on TV.
I've read the names of people who've died from mad cow in humans right here in Austin, Texas, buddy.
Mad Cow meat may have been eaten, officials say.
Seven nations halt U.S.
beef imports from Asia to China to Europe.
Inspections for mad cow lag, those done abroad.
Government experts shock that meat was processed.
It goes on and on and on.
It's big agribusiness that did this.
98% of the beef is totally safe and it's raised on ranches and farms but it's the big agribusiness feedlots that have done this and it's still going on and this will destroy millions of families, millions of individuals, hundreds if not thousands of communities if it continues.
My family pays the property tax.
Pays for everything with cows.
In East Texas.
And, uh, you know, they're land-rich, money-poor, and without the cows, or with the price gonna drop, it's just horrible.
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From his Central Texas Command Center, deep behind enemy lines, the information war continues.
We have a man who's been fighting the Globalist Crime Syndicate For over 20 years, joining us in the next hour, one of my favorite guests, Jack McClam, police and military, against the New World Order.
You don't want to miss that in the next hour.
And he'll be able, of course, to talk about all the news we're going to be covering.
We're going to have open phones here on this Christmas Eve edition of the World Wide Transmission that you'll be able to tune back in on Friday.
I'm going to have a rebroadcast then of this show and I guess hear yourself on the air.
There is so much to cover.
We have mad cow disease, which has already been here for over a decade.
They've covered it up.
Again, I've seen the death certificates.
Of the spongiform encephalopathy.
People dying from it.
I've seen death certificates of people I know here in Austin, Texas.
For at least, what, three years?
I've seen several death certificates.
This is hushed up real quick.
People get visits by men in black outfits, black suits.
Telling them they better keep their mouths shut.
They tell hospitals, shut your mouths.
Very, very serious issue.
And again I mentioned in the first segment Colonel Craig Roberts says his father died from this.
A lot of people have I've seen this type of stuff develop.
I need to get Colonel Roberts back on covering that subject because I'm going back in memory.
We did a show about two years ago.
It may not have been his father.
Was it his mother?
The point is I hate to speculate and my memory is failing me there.
I ought to call Colonel Roberts up and have him on about that in the third hour of his home.
That's a good idea.
I don't want to be announcing family members have died and get it wrong.
Occasionally my memory fails me, but I know we've had Craig on to talk about that and talk about the medical records, but I know people here in Austin, I have held, I have held the death certificate.
I have seen it myself.
Rumsfeld, bet your life, threat to US is serious.
The Pentagon on Tuesday conducted an exercise to prepare for a terror attack and Widened warplane patrols around the United States amid fresh concern about threats to nuclear power plants and other vital infrastructure facilities.
Two days after the U.S.
government raised its terror alert at the second highest level, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld emphasized the gravity of the threat.
You ask, is it serious?
Yes, you bet your life people don't do that unless it is a serious situation, Rumsfeld told a Pentagon briefing.
Well, Mr. Rumsfeld, you've been caught lying.
Almost everything that comes out of your mouth is a lie, or a fabrication, or a twisting.
And I have a whole stack of mainstream news articles where the CIA and the FBI say they've been ordered to put out fake terror alerts to, quote, create fear and hysteria.
The White House Press Secretary, months before he resigned, admitted, yeah, these terror alerts are being put out for political effect.
Why did Ari Fleischer admit that?
That's an amazing, amazing admission.
Rumsfeld, bet your life threat to the U.S.
is serious.
And now they're saying they think they're a commercial airline, pilots who are about to attack us any minute from inside the cockpits and the armored doors are only going to help them.
They've got the military out, they've got the missiles out, the Patriot missile batteries out, saying, oh, we didn't do this before 9-11, but now we are.
Oh, but you sure did about a year before 9-11 in Genoa, Italy, didn't you?
You had the missiles on top of the roofs there.
Then you claimed you'd never heard of a plan to fly planes into buildings.
No, we just have hundreds of news articles where it had been announced years before 9-11.
So what do you think about this terror alert?
They're saying this is more serious than ever and why everybody's afraid and we're all in deep trouble.
What are we going to do?
Well, what are you going to do?
And have you begun to realize who's really behind these terror attacks and why they're doing this?
Report!
Bin Laden behind terror threat.
Intelligence indicates Osama al-Zahari approved plans to hijack foreign airliners.
Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden and his chief deputy.
Zahari approved the terror plans that led U.S.
officials to raise the threat level and heighten security through the holidays, intelligence officials told NBC News.
But wait a minute!
Back on Friday they found the white powder on Pennsylvania Avenue in D.C.
They said there was a female suicide bomber planning to attack the Statue of Liberty.
Turns out those were totally fake and false, and no one will say where the threats came from, but they weren't accurate.
Again, more of this fear-mongering going on.
According to the report, U.S.
intelligence has gathered details about the attack plans, which they say include Al-Qaeda operatives hijacking foreign airliners and flying them into targets in the U.S.
Information even includes some specific flight numbers.
And the Pentagon is stepping up air patrols.
Oh, you had air patrols for Payne Stewart, the golfer, 18 minutes after he was off course.
He was surrounded by five F-16s.
But the most controlled corridor in the world, the DC-New York corridor, it took an hour and 25 minutes until you did anything.
Also, immigration reform, reform, folks, on Bush agenda.
And how are they going to reform it?
Total legalization of anyone that can get here.
And this is out of the Washington Post.
They are praising Bush for this, saying how wonderful it is, and admitting that it will make every illegal that's here, every illegal that gets here, totally legal.
You get here, you get a green card, you get IDs, you get welfare.
You think we've got a lot of illegal aliens here from Latin America and China and the Middle East and Eastern Europe?
Folks, you haven't seen anything yet.
This is the Pan American Union.
We'll be going over that in a few minutes.
I wanted to go back over these false terror alerts from Friday.
ABC News suicide bomber threat turns out to be false.
America suffered a spasm of fear and alarm yesterday as two reports of terrorist activity rapidly gained credibility.
The discovery of white powder on Pennsylvania Avenue pavement outside the White House caused a serious concern and Central Washington to be cordoned off by police who put in process a full-scale terrorist alert.
Tests found that it was substance was harmless.
Also in New York, the stock market dipped because they thought there was a female suicide bomber.
Turns out that was totally false.
Going back, this is from World Daily.
Terror alerts manufactured.
FBI agents say White House scripting hysterics for political effect.
Intelligence pros say White House is manufacturing terrorist alerts to keep the issue alive in the minds of voters and to keep President Bush's approval ratings high.
Capitol Hill Blue reported.
And then I have the Associated Press, BBC, ABC News, Fox News, in the terror alert, fake terror alert archive of PrisonPlanet.com.
You can go read that.
You ought to email that link around to people so they can see the truth for themselves.
But Rumsfeld says, we never put out fake reports.
We never put out false information.
You should trust us and bet your life on it.
You're in deep trouble.
Funny, the more liberty we give up, the more Homeland Security gets control of our lives, the bigger the threats, the bigger the attack.
Better give up all your rights.
The Toronto Star is reporting, family sue, U.S.
reject 9-11 bribe is the headline.
Ignore deadline for compensation payouts, average 1.8 million.
For some, it's blood money, a repugnant payoff they feel they have no choice but to accept.
For a handful of others, oh hundreds and hundreds, the process of claiming compensation is too painful.
They find themselves paralyzed by grief and unable to reopen emotional wounds barely healed from the deaths of their loved ones in September 11th terrorist attacks.
But as many as 73 families see the process of the U.S.
government compensation as an attempt to protect those who should be held accountable for what they believe was mass murder.
They ignored a midnight deadline last night, their last chance to apply for the government cash.
And today they began a new stage in the arduous odyssey and will sue their government airlines and state and local authorities.
By the way, we've had Stanley Hilton on, and he represents 400 of the families.
400 of the families.
We've had other people who are suing on, and their lawyers on, talking about government involvement in 9-11.
And the Red Cross, United Way got caught pressuring families.
Remember they raised billions, over a billion and a half dollars.
They wouldn't give it to families unless they signed waivers.
Why would they have a dog in that fight?
You can't have the money unless you say you won't sue the government.
And that was money you sent in thinking it would go to the families.
Most of them never got anything, folks.
But a lot of it did go to gun control groups, again, as I warned you it would.
This may be uncharted waters, but I was thrown into a pool on September 11, 2001.
Had to learn to swim, said Monica Gabrielle, who lost her husband Richard in the World Trade Center attack.
I'm doing this for my husband.
He was a gentle man and he was alive trying to get out of that building that day.
The dead, the dying, the smoke, the tear.
No one should have suffered like that.
I want accountability.
By the way, unnamed voices were on the speakers saying, everyone stay where you are.
You'll get in trouble if you leave.
Do not cause a panic.
Stay at your desk.
Meanwhile, some of the executives of the companies that were in the towers were on bullhorns.
But they'd evacuate those buildings again for some white powder on the ground, which the feds do to scare people.
Almost every federal courthouse in the country gets this white powder yearly to scare everyone.
So sick.
Mad cow meat may have been eaten, officials say, from Reuters.
Meat from a cow with a deadly mad cow disease may have already been eaten, possibly in the form of hamburger.
Washington State Deputy Director of Agriculture Bill Brookson said Tuesday, asked at a press conference if it was possible that the meat had already been consumed.
Brookson replied, it is possible.
Seven nations halt U.S.
beef imports.
We'll go over that when we get back and we'll take your calls.
thirty-one business news a lot more coming up you want to stay with us
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The Genesis Communications Radio Network proudly presents the Alex Jones Show.
Alright, your calls are coming up here in just a few minutes.
We've got a real treat for you today.
We're going to have Jack McClam on in about 35 minutes.
Police against the New World Order.
And then simultaneously at about 1230, that is central time in the middle of the show, I'm going to have Colonel Craig Roberts on with him and both those guys together and myself on air for the rest of the show and taking your calls.
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In the next two and a half hours, we're about to go to Mike and Ed and Clint and Charles and everybody else that's patiently holding.
The toll-free number to join us on air is 1-800-259-9231.
Now understand, I love American agriculture.
My family makes their living off of ranching in East Texas.
Most of the beef in this country is the best in the world.
But in Europe and in the US, they started the practice decades ago of feeding rotten, decomposing animal parts.
Cows, horses, dead goats, you name it.
Dogs, cats, they throw it all into a big mix.
Chew it up into this protein meal.
And blood meal and other things that they feed to the cows.
Now a cow isn't meant to eat meat, folks.
Much less rotten meat or meat from its own species.
And so this stuff got into the food supply.
And now you've got all this weird Alzheimer's and all these new types of diseases, brain degenerative diseases.
I just called Craig Roberts.
It was his wife's grandmother and he had another friend whose father died of it.
So he's had a family member die of it and he's had friends whose parents have died from it.
I knew years ago he talked about that on the air.
I couldn't remember the details.
I'm sort of just blurting out this info, why I have no idea.
I'm the first to tell you folks, I catch myself, sometimes we get bad info in our brains and just hope I don't have the mad cow.
Okay, it's just a joke.
But the point is, is that it's horrible.
I mean, most of the beef in this country is raised properly.
It's raised out in fields, eating grass.
Okay, and you give them some grain or range cubes in the winter.
But these feedlots, and the stuff they're feeding cows at these feedlots, is ridiculous.
It's out of control.
And I've seen death certificates here in Austin.
Okay, I've had people I know whose mothers and fathers have died, and they bring me the death certificate from the local hospital, and it says that they died of the spongiform encephalopathy.
It's scary stuff!
And so by not admitting it, by not stopping feeding them the blood products, that's still going on, folks.
Still going on.
And by covering it up, then the feds are going to get to come in and regulate the small farm, the small ranch, and you better believe big agribusiness is going to get even worse.
These are the people, this is the FDA that has authorized radiating your children's poultry, pork, and beef.
For the school lunch program.
These are the people that ship in the raspberries and strawberries sprayed in human excrement for fertilizer out of Mexico and thousands of children get Hepatitis B and C. It's admitted, but never a major issue.
They could care less about you.
And there's major news articles, Associated Press, Rocky Mountain News, BBC, Reuters, where the Food and Drug Administration has been covering up the mad cow.
Colonel Roberts is going to talk about that with us.
And we're talking about the police state and the terror alerts and the general saying we need martial law and all this with Jack McClam and of course, Colonel Craig Roberts, both of them military veterans, both of them, veteran retired police officers.
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That's Jack McClam, Colonel Roberts, amazing guys.
We're going to come back though and go to calls here after I finish up with the Mad Cow News.
Mad Cow meat may have been eaten!
And that's the State Deputy Director of Agriculture, Now there in Washington State, seven nations halt U.S.
beef imports.
That was as of last night.
Now I'm reading that it's more undetermined numbers.
Japan and South Korea halted imports of U.S.
beef on Wednesday after a cow in Washington State tested positive for mad cow disease, depriving American exporters of two of their largest overseas markets.
Inspections for Mad Cow lag.
Those done abroad, that's the New York Times.
CU expert shocked that meat was processed.
Russia considers banning imports of U.S.
beef.
Europe's banning it.
USDA refused to release Mad Cow records.
I'm going to try to hit on this and we'll go to your calls and just a bunch of other news on the other side.
InfoWars.com.
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I was just talking to Mark who runs the show during the breaks.
I talked to him and he was saying, yeah, why would they, who started this practice of feeding cows, dead cows, dead sheep, dead dogs, dead cats.
Oh yeah, in England there's video of them throwing every type of dead animal you can imagine.
Animals that were euthanized, you name it, in these big vats and they just grind them up and turn them into this protein meal.
And you feed an animal that doesn't eat meat, rotten meat.
Now a dog can eat rotten meat, folks, because they're designed to do it.
They have a stomach that can do it.
Cats can do it.
But herbivores can't even eat meat, period.
Then you feed them rotten meat, folks.
Now, herbivores, that's what humans are.
Or, excuse me, omnivores is what humans are.
We can eat meat, we can eat plants, we can eat it all.
But still, these prions do pass through the digestive process, do get into the bloodstream, do lodge in the brain that is made up of water and cholesterol.
And they just stick in there and start growing and rotting holes in your brain, just like the aluminum does it.
Just like the fluoride does it, just lots of stuff in our environment that goes into the oil-based brain tissue and wreaks havoc!
And so now seven nations, seven nations, including two of the biggest beef exporters, importers I should say, that we export to, Japan and South Korea.
And by the way, I've seen articles before where they find Mad Cow in this country.
It'll show up in the Associated Press and then suddenly the feds say, oh false alarm.
Why now are they admitting something that we've always known about?
Why is that happening?
And now Mexico is saying they're not going to accept our leave.
You know what this has done?
Do you know what Mad Cow has done in England?
Mad Cow reduced the prices of cattle by about half, and then porting down Bio Weapons Laboratory four years
ago publicly, a keyword, released foot and mouth, they say by accident.
Only a few hundred cows and sheep got it, but they killed 8 million sheep, 4 million cows.
And I predicted that the government would not allow people to restock their animals,
claiming that, well, you had too many cows and sheep to begin
with, you're hurting the environment with their methane ejections, and their flatulence,
and also the runoff from their release.
So what do you think about them apples, folks?
And how is this going to affect our economy?
I know it's going to hurt my family, who makes their living, who pays their outrageous property taxes with the cows they sell every single year.
And I want to ask you, are you going to go enjoy that hamburger?
Are you going to continue to eat beef?
I mean, I've known about this for years and I still eat it.
Because it tastes so good, but... Again, am I going to get Parkinson's disease, which has exploded now?
Am I going to get Alzheimer's?
I mean, they've got people who are 30 years old now going, oh, you've got Alzheimer's.
I got that guy on that show, Frazier.
He's like 45 years old.
Can hardly remember his name now.
Can't remember his lines.
He's got Alzheimer's.
Let's go ahead and go to the calls.
We'll get back into the terror alerts and the new 9-11 developments and China with mobile death vans killing Christians.
And the big pharmacological, big agribusiness companies, executives have said, we're going to introduce it into the food chain and then you won't have a choice.
Everyone will just have to accept it.
And then the new plants they're putting out take over the other varieties of the same plant.
Poor, they can't produce seeds that produce plants.
So they're stopping the life cycle.
They're patenting and blocking and damming up the life cycle for total monopoly control.
I mean, do you realize how dastardly this is?
unidentified
It's horrible, Alex.
You know what?
If they can't get you one way, they're going to get you through one other way.
There is organic beef, there's organic eggs, there's organic poultry, there's organic pork, there's organic lamb, and by the way, Cheetos just came out with organic.
Now, I don't believe for a minute that it's really organic, but the point is, they're trying to sell this to you now because, I'm telling you, Twenty, thirty percent, depending on what numbers I look at, are now going organic.
We're forcing them, by moving against them, to start offering this.
So, they're definitely feeling the sting of people's awareness now.
unidentified
No, Alex, that's the issue in what Washington State does.
It's probably just they got out to the wrong people and they had to make it... That's exactly it, okay?
There have been many other cases where a cow is convulsing all over the place, they go test it, it has the mad cow, and then suddenly you hear it many times it's been announced and they say, oh, it was a false alarm.
What they do is they go into hospitals and the doctor will diagnose a human with this and then they're told to shut up because the entire hospital would have to be destroyed.
Because you can't get rid of these prions.
You can't get them off the instruments.
And so they will give you a false diagnosis.
But I have seen cases where they do give the proper diagnosis and then it's just hushed up.
So there's a lot of this going on.
unidentified
The idea is you don't eat a McDonald's, you eat organic beef.
Because, you know, this isn't just sound bites here and I'll let you talk.
Then, in the late 60s, he was put in as the head of the Ba'athist security apparatus.
In the late 70s, he became the dictator of that country.
He was publicly funded and told to attack Iran, given the weapons by our government.
That's mainstream news.
Then, April Gillaspie, in 1990, six days before he invaded Kuwait, the U.S.
Ambassador told him, We're on your side.
We have a treaty with you.
Not Kuwait.
Do whatever you want.
We won't get involved.
This is on videotape.
He invaded.
So, let me explain something to you.
If I walk up to you and I punch you in the face, Ed, in Canada...
My fist doesn't get punished, my brain does.
My body, the person Alex Jones, gets punished.
Saddam Hussein was the fist, and to watch the Bushes and the neocons sit there and go, look we've punished our evil fist, oh aren't we good, is a disgusting joke.
Now, we never tortured people in the past, we shouldn't begin torturing now, because then we become Joseph Mingala.
Now, torture is un-American, unscriptural, and bad.
Do you want... Now, you go ahead and make your point now.
unidentified
Well, first of all, Saddam got his weapons mostly from the French and the Germans.
Well, I've been on I mean, I've been on national TV debating Lionel Chet when the head media takeover guy for Bush, right after he threatened me in a bathroom.
I mean, I've snuck into Bohemian Grove.
I walk up to police and military at checkpoints and get in their face, and I haven't been contacted or I missed the email.
unidentified
Well, if you're not afraid to take on the feds, I don't see you avoiding the rabbi, but... Well, I mean, my whole point is, is I was nice about this whole thing.
And I'm not going to sit there and hear a bunch of garbage!
unidentified
I just want to make a couple of real quick points and then I'll get off and let somebody else get on here.
First of all, I want to say thank you and let you know about a man that lives near me named Luther.
I just want to let you know he constantly copies off your videos.
He's taken them to the Sheriff's Department, the Police Department, the Courthouse.
I mean, he's been very active and he's a real patriot.
I just want to thank him.
And second of all, I want to bring up The fact that a lot of Bush's claims and justifications for war is coming out now, and it's coming out in the mainstream, you know.
And now Condi Rice doesn't want to testify.
Now they're saying the claims he made about the nukes are false.
Now, I've always had a theory that the mass graves that Sean Hannity's always talking about were probably caused by us selling out the Kurds.
And then I read, I think it was on your website, If I'm not mistaken, that we had an active role in helping Saddam against the Kurds.
And what I'm leading to is, all of this makes me nervous.
Because if this really comes out and becomes a problem for the Bush administration, I just wonder if they're going to take the heat or if they're going to create a diversion.
And they've been caught putting out false terror alerts in the past.
So that's what we're dealing with.
Thank you.
That's a good point that you made, Clint.
We'll come back and talk to Charles and Michael and others.
And we got Jack McClam, Police Against the New World Order, coming on.
And Colonel Greg Roberts.
And we'll talk about torture with them as well.
We'll talk about torture.
It was wrong for Joseph Mingula.
It's wrong for us to do it.
unidentified
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From his Central Texas Command Center, deep behind enemy lines, the information war continues.
it's alex jones and the gcn radio network alright folks we've got uh... jack mcclamb and colonel corinne
roberts coming up and of course loaded phone lines and a ton of other news items
A caller from Colorado just called in, Jay, and said that one of our wonderful affiliates out there, somebody popped in, unnamed person, and said, oh, we've tried to contact Alex the last two days, five times.
Folks, I get hundreds of phone calls a day, and I am awash in messages and information.
I'll call my office, but I'll have Rabbi Spivak on right now.
In fact, everybody, don't call this number or they won't be able to get through.
Whoever is breaking in over me or wants to get this person on and have a discussion about torture, I'll have it right now.
Let me get my guest on for about 30 minutes and then we'll have whoever wants to come on, from either the Colorado Radio Network or this rabbi.
And you know, I did my show, what was it?
It was on Monday, two days ago.
A couple callers called in and said, yeah, this guy's saying, you know, there's a bomb that's gonna kill 100 troops.
Uh, we need to, you know, uh, you know, torture, you know, is torture good to save the troops if we've got one of these terrorists and can torture him to get the answers?
I mean, that's the moral argument we've heard on this.
And I said, well, you know, how do you spell this guy's name?
You know, I'll try to get him on.
You know, it's like I say I'm going to get Ron Paul on, and two weeks later you hear him on.
Or I say I'm going to get somebody on on the abortion issue, and you hear him on a month later.
Uh, so, but I mean, to make a big issue of, we've, we've called him, and he's not calling us.
I'm a nice guy, folks.
I'm sitting here wanting to discuss this with people.
I mean, I bring people on who disagree with me all the time as guests.
It makes for great radio.
And, you know, it fleshes out the ideas.
So, here's the number.
Live to this network.
To put the, whoever, somebody from the station, whoever popped in, and I'm, you know, I hear nicely, just said, well, we've tried to contact Alex, so, like I said, I told you I've gotten a lot of messages, I haven't seen it, it's two days ago, folks, really just a day ago, Tuesday, you know, after Monday, and I haven't looked at all my messages this morning, I've been busy getting ready for the show, but here's the number to the network, and please, listeners, do not call this number, because then the person won't be able to get through.
And again, that is not a number for listeners to call in.
You call in on that number, Mark, I want you to hang up on listeners that call that number.
Because we gotta, as you know, keep that line open.
So if somebody wants to call in, let's have a debate in the third hour.
An hour and three minutes from now.
I'll have a couple people on who want to disagree with me.
It's not like we have to all hate each other and get in a big fight over it.
Right now, let's do it.
Let's go.
I'm here.
I'm ready.
Because torture is immoral.
When Joseph Mingala did it, When Hitler's people did it, when the Japanese did it to our troops, when the Vietnamese did it to our troops, it's wrong.
And I stand against torture.
It's un-American.
And I know how these arguments work.
The media's been selling us these arguments.
That it's a good thing.
And a lot of people that I know are going, yeah, maybe it's good.
And so I'm not saying, you know, that people that have bought into this are even bad.
I think they're misled.
And so I've been nice and friendly about this the whole time.
You know, having a debate doesn't mean we have to, you know, descend into getting mad at each other.
And so I'm here right now.
Let me get that number out again.
Again, 877-996-4327, extension 125.
So I want to get the Rabbi Spivak on.
I don't even know who he is, never heard of him, except since Monday.
And I'll have anybody on who's prominent out there who thinks torture is okay in certain circumstances.
Because I disagree with that.
That goes against my code of honor.
Uh, so, I'm here waiting!
And, uh, so, that's, that's what it comes down to.
Okay, I know we got loaded phones, and we got a bunch of guests.
We'll get to your calls, our guests, and a bunch of other news items.
Didn't even plug my videos this hour, too busy dealing with this.
Hello folks, this is Alex Jones.
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unidentified
Big Brother. Mainstream media. Government cover-ups.
Big Brother. Mainstream media. Government cover-ups.
Mad Cow Disease confirmed to be in the United States.
Yesterday it was seven countries pulling out of buying U.S.
beef products.
Now it looks like there's 12 countries announcing it.
We've got the terror alert.
Rumsfeld saying it's the most dangerous it's ever been since 9-11.
He said, you better bet your life on it.
Really cryptic statements.
We've got Jack McClam, police against the New World Order, coming on to talk about Tommy Franks and General Eberhardt saying martial law is the next step.
We've got Colonel Craig Roberts coming on because he's had friends and family that have died from mad cow disease.
We'll be discussing that with him and a bunch of other issues.
And on Monday, I think it was in the Third hour, a couple listeners called in and said, one of those stations you're on, a great station, 1360, the American Freedom Network flagship there in Colorado.
We've got some other great affiliates there too, the Colorado Radio Network.
There's this guy on the air who thinks that, you know, torture might be okay in some cases.
I said, wow!
You know, I'd like to debate that with a person.
And supposedly they've been trying to contact me.
I haven't.
I don't know if they're contacting the network or... because that's not where I'm at.
I'm not in Minnesota.
But I'm going to find out.
We're going to try to get Rabbi Spivak on in the third hour to hear his point of view.
Because this is the first I've heard of it today from another listener who said the rabbi wants to debate me.
And then he heard I'm dodging it.
Wait till you get 2,000 emails a day and 100 phone calls a day and 100 boxes.
I'm just swimming in stuff, so I'm glad you contacted me.
I'll have anybody on the show that disagrees with me.
I think that makes for great radio.
Makes for wonderful radio, and I think it's part of the First Amendment that we have these discussions.
I know we got loaded phones.
We'll get to your calls early with a man I really respect, and that is Jack McClam.
Do we have Jack?
Okay, we'll get Jack on at 5 after then.
Again, we've got so many phone calls here.
Let's talk to Charles in Louisiana.
Charles, you're on the air.
Go ahead.
unidentified
Torture is good, my friend.
Let me explain.
They give you statements they want.
They threaten your family with it.
They can put bags over you, stomp your toes, send you to prison, make you a terrorist.
You know, talk radio, one of the things that fuels it is controversy.
People love it.
But I always stay away from it.
I think the news is hardcore enough and serious enough that That's what's going to save this country, and that's what the listeners really want to hear.
That's why my show is, quote, the number one patriot, you know, conservative, alternative show in the country.
But two days ago, and I don't want to get off on a big side issue on this, folks.
Two days ago, a couple callers called in bashing a host on one of my affiliates.
You know, there's this argument from some conservatives that, well, 100 of our troops are going to die from a bomb, but we can torture one of these Iraqis should we do it.
And I said, I disagree with that.
I'd like to debate the person, you know, who's saying that.
But I said it very nicely.
And then, you know, a guy called in and said, in the first hour, you're a coward.
You won't debate this guy.
I've been trying to get in touch with you.
And I've got two employees who work in my office to answer the phones and do the shipping.
One of them is off this week, you know, vacation.
And I did find out that yesterday a bunch of messages have been left.
And then the lady that works for me writes those out.
And I haven't been over there to the office to pick them up yesterday.
I'm kind of lollygagging about a little bit more than I usually do.
Well, that's not true.
I did a TV show yesterday, three radio interviews, and my own radio show.
But I didn't get over there and get the messages.
So great!
My whole point is that I'm not dodging a debate because it takes me a day to get the message.
And that's not what was said.
I actually called one of our wonderful affiliates, 1360, and talked to him.
They said, no, we were just making it clear because we'd said, yeah, we were setting the debate up that we had contacted you.
Well, that's good.
Now we have Rabbi Spivak.
Coming on in the next hour, we're going to have Craig Roberts on and Jack McClammon.
These are both former military men and police officers.
I think they can explain why torture is wrong.
I'm going to let them debate him if they want to do that, but I want to keep it nice and cordial because we're all on the same team here.
Now, I know we got loaded phones.
We're going to get to your calls.
There's a bunch of serious news.
Mad Cow, impending terror attacks, Rumsfeld saying, bet your life on it.
This is the most serious ever.
We got generals in government, out of government, talking about martial law.
The hair on the back of my neck is standing up right now.
I am very, very concerned about that.
We need to discuss this, but we will spend 30 minutes of the next hour on torture and on this issue with the rabbi and our guests.
We have three guests on.
It's going to be really dynamic.
Wow, this is hot radio today.
So I'm sure you're glad you're tuned in.
A man I really respect is Jack McClam, police and military against the New World Order.
He joins me today, and Jack, good to have you on, sir.
Out of the gates, I want to go over Mad Cow, I want to go over the terror alerts, I want to go over the martial law statements, but first off, give us in two minutes a summation, Officer McClam, on what you think about torture.
Well, at 1976, 1975-1976, we began to adopt in our police academies in the nation, and in our government in general, the end justifies the means political philosophy, Alex.
I know because I was academy instructor in the sixth largest police academy in the nation, the Regional Police Academy in Arizona, and we began to train our officers In that anything is okay, as long as it justifies us winning in the end.
And it's changed America, this political philosophy, that we should do what our enemies do.
Actually, you know, we're no longer a Christian nation, so it's okay to act like animals, like our fellow Well, fellow humans here on the face of the earth that has this philosophy that torture, lying, cheating, killing is even okay.
Doing terrorism against your own people, as long as it promotes the goal, whatever that goal is.
So, Alex, it's just more of the same.
Us doing to these uh...
totalitarian nation state
the same thing they do to uh... lowers up to them at their level and as christians we can't do that we we are
not allowed to do the things that
the enemies of god and liberty the one another into our people just because
Well, we are under the Injustifies the Means political philosophy today.
We're out underneath our Christian nation that was based on biblical principles, so we're going to find that that is the attitude of many people who have been trained through the government schools Well, Jack, almost every episode of 24 with Keither Sutherland or Threat Matrix, almost every episode they torture somebody and it's a good thing.
As the young people were taught that it's okay to lie, it's okay to cheat, it's okay to change your police reports, get in a big room, and all get together and make sure your police reports are the same because so-and-so might sue the city or sue the government.
beginning torture it reminds me brother of about uh... fifteen years ago
uh... uh... uh...
We put together a bunch of documentation on the Injustifies the Means political philosophy that's being taught in our schools today.
Uh, and, you know, we came up with this book that, uh, on values clarification that stated, uh, to the children, it's okay to lie, it's okay to steal, it's okay to have premarital sex, it's okay to cheat or to kill if these things are part of your value system and you've clarified these values for yourself.
The important thing is not what values you choose, but that you have chosen them freely, without coercion of your parents, a spouse, priests, friends, ministers, or social pressure of any kind.
And that's where we're at today, brother.
We're no longer a Christian nation.
The Christians have withdrawn and are in their prayer closets, praying that the rapture gets here before the Antichrist gets here, and they've abandoned the institution.
Well, America was always supposed to be an example to the world, and at one time we were, Alex, but not today.
We've adjusted to their morals and their dogma and to their tactics and techniques, but we're really no different today than the rest of the world.
And this is so important because, of course, as the head of the Ford Foundation said in 1954, Rowan Gaither, we're going to be merged together with the rest of the third world nations, so our morals, Our standards all have to be brought down, Alex, to the same as the heathen out there, and it's been accomplished very well.
So torture will be a normal process under this new political correct system that we're going under.
And again, I saw law enforcement publications years ago that would go, if somebody's got anthrax and is going to release it and we can torture them for the answer, shouldn't we do it?
Well, the point is, you look at who's behind the anthrax, it's the U.S.
government.
Who's behind the terror?
It's the globalists.
But the point here is, is that you can't believe the confession that comes out of torture.
Let's pick this back up in the next hour because we got Mad Cow, we got Bush announcing he wants totally open borders to legalize everybody.
We've got these generals talking about martial law.
Was it bone-chilling to you like it was for me to hear Eberhardt admit we're under extraordinary control level, that we are going under military control, to hear Tommy Frank say that?
You know, Alex, you and I for years have known this is coming, but the closer it gets, as much as we deal with reality every day, it was still shocking to my system when I heard it from their own mouths.
And we're going to have a debate, I guess, eight minutes into the next hour, for about 30 minutes, with someone.
People called in saying that he was having a discussion of torture.
I said, I might want to talk to him.
So I guess we're going to talk to him.
So we'll be right back.
Stay with us.
unidentified
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We're talking to Jack McClam, police against the new world order and Jack McClam, police
And Jack, I have the article right here, Immigration Reform on the Bush Agenda.
And they call it reform, like campaign finance reform, restricting the First Amendment before elections.
That's reform.
Well, see, the word reform has been altered.
Reform just means to change the form, but we think of it as a good word, and it says here in the Washington Post, total legalization of anyone that can get here.
You get here, you are made legal.
Jack McClain, how can they say they're going to micromanage our lives as citizens, but they're going to carte blanche, leave the borders wide open, and let anybody in here?
Well, it is the number one means of proving that the whole Homeland Security program is a farce, Alex.
You know, as a law enforcement person from a state who is literally suffering an invasion for the last 20 years into Arizona, I'm disabled today in the line of duty as a law enforcement person in Phoenix by an illegal alien dope smuggler out of Mexico.
And I've lost seven of my brothers and sisters in uniform in that city, and much of it was due to illegal aliens accessing our nation.
Domestic tyranny is to put you and me, brother, and our children and grandchildren under a totalitarian system that has nothing to do with security of our nation and our people.
Mad Cow is the same program that's been going on now for 30 years to level the United States economically with the rest of the third world nations, which we're coming down to third world nation ourselves.
Just to destroy our industry manufacturing.
The beef industry is very important to this nation.
So we're going to have the $5 and $6 an hour jobs here for a while, then it'll go down to $5 and $6 a day like other third world nations.
And the sad part is, Alex, that yes, brothers and sisters are waking up like you call her here and doing something every day that's very important, as God says, to occupy until his return.
But the vast majority of people are still asleep believing that the man that said... Tell you what, we gotta break.
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Late summer 2003. Mainstream press tells us we're having a stock market recovery.
2003 mainstream press tells us we're having a stock market recovery
Late summer 2002, I heard the same thing.
Late summer 2001, you heard the same thing.
The Dow Jones Industrial Average, currently trading in a 93 to 9400 range, is down 7% from two years ago.
That's recovery?
Gold, now trading in the $360 range, is up 31% in that same period.
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One of my other latest films is Police State 3 Total Enslavement.
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and I'm Alex Jones at three thousand and one South Lamar suite 100 Austin Texas
seven eight seven zero four this show got unexpectedly jam-packed today with
Craig Roberts and Jack McClam, police against the New World Order, and of course, author and lecturer and Vietnam sniper Craig Roberts.
I wanted to go over martial law, the militarization of police, the statements by Eberhardt, the head of NORTHCOM about martial law, Tommy Franks, the open borders, the heightened terror alert, And we're going to do that, and in the next hour we're going to get into torture, because that's very important.
Colonel Roberts, it's good to have you on, and to have you on with somebody I know you admire, Jack McClam.
Okay, I've got a different perspective and it's my opinion on it because I've been there and we've been in situations in the military where we're going to have to differentiate what is torture and what isn't because there's a lot of people that put torture in one big basket and said, you can't do any of this stuff.
It's just like the environment.
You can't just blanketly say, this is how we're going to define everything, because it's a little more complicated than that.
There's a totally different way in prisoner treatment in war versus what we would do here in this country.
So basically, torture to me, in my definition, is something that does physical harm to somebody.
Physical abuse of prisoners always comes back to haunt you in the end.
Sleep deprivation, denial of privileges, solitary confinement, stuff that we normally would do in a prison system for people that misbehave, would be totally acceptable if it's going to save American lives in a war situation.
These people don't have the rights that we have under our Constitution, you know, so our military has a little bit more flexibility.
However, when it gets to the point where you physically injure someone, expect their people to do the same to our prisoners when they capture us, and we don't want that to happen.
Absolutely, and we did some bad things in Vietnam, too.
We had the Phoenix Program, where we would stand there and watch Vietnamese troops torture Viet Cong prisoners with ways that are totally unacceptable and against the rules of land warfare.
uh... they also that they they they vote over they carry is provisional
reconnaissance units that would go out in the villages and sack people up in
torture with physical abuse or at allow the vietnamese who were working for them
Anybody that's a student of history can go back and look at the Inquisition Everybody in the Inquisition could be found guilty after a certain amount of torture.
My point is when we got an FBI that's been caught running murder for hire...
FBI crime lab running frauds, Houston crime labs, all these other crime labs, Tulia, Texas, hundreds of examples, modern examples of frame-ups, police torturing people here.
I mean, you cannot trust an establishment because you're going to get evil people in power that are going to use that torture.
You have to control your own internal law enforcement mechanisms.
They can't be controlled for you.
Once a government has the ability to order its law enforcement agencies or intelligence agencies to do things without any exterior control by the population, Then you've lost control.
It's become a dictatorship, and you're going to end up at the wrong end of the stick on the deal.
That was one of the things that was great about this country when it started out, is the people ran the government.
The government can do anything it wants, but if the people do anything, if you do anything out here, they can bring the might of the government down on you and all the laws they've passed while they themselves ignore them.
Yes, you know, and it's a matter of special operations training that what you do is you go out and you do something that makes the enemy retaliate against the civilian population.
And when the enemy retaliates against the civilian population, it puts the civilian population automatically on your side because they turn against your enemy.
And, uh, you know, we did this in World War II with the French underground.
If you can create a terrorist event and blame somebody for it, then all of a sudden, uh, the news media uses this to take the population and turn us against whoever it is they blamed.
Well, where we learned it was the French-Indian War, when the French and the Indians were torturing American prisoners, It backfired on them, so when the Revolutionary War came around, most of our troops were pretty careful about not doing that.
We have always meant to be a beacon to the rest of the world of the way people should act towards one another.
That's biblical, and if we lower ourselves to the animalistic level of our enemies that are heathen many times, then we are no longer a beacon to the world like God expected us to.
And another thing we should remember is that Uh, when we do these things, we torture people, and the locals find out about this, we can lose very easily.
It's like right now in Iraq.
We are angry because we are doing things in a nation that we shouldn't be over there doing to begin with, for oil and for land.
And we're trying to win the population over to our side.
The Pentagon, at the very top levels, historically, since before the Clinton administration, to get your stars and get that high, you had to do time with the CFR, you had to do time with some globalist outfitter, get your blue hat for a while, and agree to the globalist mentality that we should become a nation-state.
Wesley Clark's from that school, Barry McGaffrey's from that school.
Well, yeah, and by using that as a tool they could, you know, there are probably certain groups that would love that to happen so they could say, see, we can't do it by ourselves.
The Canadians, you know, they lost the whole parachute regiment in Somalia because of some torture incidents over there where a Somalian kid was killed.
And I think they roasted him over a fire or something, and it got back to Canada, and the people raised such a ruckus that the 1st Canadian Parachute Regiment was disbanded, and I guess to this day.
And by the time it gets around to where you have to give them critical stuff, like where your unit's located or something like that, it's not going to matter anyway because it's going to be obsolete information.
Gentlemen, we've got loaded phone lines here and we've got this little debate coming up and I hope you guys will have this discussion with this rabbi who I think was saying that...
The torture in some circumstances is okay, but we'll have to hear from him on that.
But I did want to get into General Eberhardt saying we're under extraordinary threat level, which is really martial law.
Yeah, we're going to have troops in your daily life.
Yeah, the Pentagon's watching you in the LA Times.
He said that.
He said it before Congress.
He'll at times reported.
Now we also have Tommy Franks going, well, I hate to say it, but the next step is military form of government.
There's two areas in this area, too, that's militarization of the government and the militarization of our law enforcement agencies.
If you go to my website, www.riflewarrior.com, and just scroll down just a couple of inches, you'll see a new link where I talk about the militarization of our law enforcement agencies, down to and including your local sheriffs and police departments.
And how that's coming about, and then hit that link and it'll take you to a little article I wrote, and from there you can go to the Cato Institute 26-page article on this stuff.
I don't agree with everything in the article, and I point out what I don't agree with, but the problem is, over the period of the last 30 years, the federal government has been able to get inside of our police agencies with grant programs and late funds and all sorts of things, to where now they can pretty much pull the strings, and they've convinced our police academies to tell our young officers that what we need is a federal National Law Enforcement Task Force.
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Music Okay, let's go ahead and go to some of your calls.
Then a little bit into the next hour, we're going to have this rabbi on who was on his radio show, one of my affiliates, talking about torture.
And I said, oh, I might want to have a discussion with him.
And so he's been wanting to do that.
So we're gonna have him on with our guests.
We'll all have a discussion about it, a debate about it.
Let's go ahead and go to some calls, Colonel Roberts and of course, Jack McClam.
Colonel Craig Roberts and Jack McClam.
Jack McClam with Police Against the New World Order.
He's got a long website.
Just type police and military against the new world order into a search engine.
It'll be one of the first links.
It's an amazing website.
We're going to plug all that contact info in the next hour.
The reason I was calling is Because, you know, lately we've heard, you know, some things about, like, Prescott Bush funding Hitler and Rumsfeld funding North Korea.
And my question is... That's all documented fact!
My big question is, how come the Global West would be funding dictators and people that they know they can't, you know, control?
I mean, how do they... We've heard about Well, they can control them.
You know, when they funded Hitler, they were totally in control of Hitler because they controlled all of the funding for the Third Reich through the Reichsbank.
I'd like to hear from a military guy, because it's amazing to me, just the other day again, we had a friend who said, oh, that's just contrails.
And I, Craig, I just, and Alex, I just can't believe that anybody has been that non-observant throughout their lifetime to know that a contrail disappears in 30 seconds to a minute.
And these things last up there for two hours and come and turn into clouds and come down on top of you.
Okay, we'll get Craig Roberts, who's a pilot himself, we'll get his take on it when we get back.
Third hour.
You do not want to miss this third hour, folks.
Tell your friends and family to tune in.
Call them right now.
We're going to come back, get his answer on that, talk to Jay and Mary and Tom, and then we're going to get our guest, our other guest on with both of our other guests.
unidentified
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We're going to have a debate about torture coming up here in a few minutes.
We're going to get more into the martial law preparations.
The head of the Defense Department saying, you bet your life on it, this is a very serious threat.
And I have a stack of articles where they admit the White House and Pentagon have put out false terror alerts to, quote, create hysteria and scare us into submission.
More on Mad Cow, just a ton of other news.
We're so honored to have Colonel Craig Roberts on with us.
And of course, Jack McClam, Police and Military Against the New World Order.
Jam-packed show today.
Colonel Roberts, the chemtrails.
I mean, I remember five years ago a jet flew over at 3,000 feet, didn't leave a trail.
Now they do over Austin.
Some of the jets won't.
One right next to it will, leaves a trail, sits there for five hours.
Well, the program just on that, and I have, but I didn't believe in the things until about four years ago when I was doing a radio show in On the East Coast and I and somebody called in and I said, well, it's just contrails.
You know, it just depends on the weather conditions.
Then I walked outside after the show looked up and.
There was this fishnet of white over us, and I watched a KC-10 refueler painted totally white, do the binoculars, do a U-turn, and go back and do a weaving pattern on this.
So, all of a sudden, everything changed.
I started digging into it, and there were several things that were happening, but just very briefly, a lot of the stuff that was coming down had aluminum oxide and other chemicals in it.
And I'd turn around and show them the pictures that we've taken and the videotape that we've taken of it, and they're going, gee, I've never seen that.
I'd left the Rocky Mountains up here where we were being sprayed pretty well and went down to Phoenix and they were being sprayed and a few days later my sons and I were down in Mexico diving and they were spraying down there.
I'm telling you, I cannot understand the billions of dollars a day and when i went off to a new
zealand they were sprayed down there brother
the millions of dollars a day being put out to for equipment and for chemical
and for manpower who who can afford that well and i got out just cranking up the
getting sprayed in Yeah, it's worldwide and over these years that I've watched this I'm beginning to believe as I'm watching and hearing from people as the
The temperatures are changing and the climate is changing around the world.
They're trying to create global warming.
They're using it as a weapon to destroy farming and so forth in various parts of the country through the HAARP system.
We have another great American, Jack McClam, who is also a veteran himself.
And of course, the most highly decorated police officer in Phoenix, Arizona history.
He taught at the Police Academy as well.
Was wounded in the line of duty.
You name it, he's been speaking out for 20 plus years against the New World Order.
And I had them both coming on the show today, and then I started getting some calls on air from Monday's show.
A couple callers called in and said, there's this rabbi, Yaakov Spivak, who's on one of your affiliates, fine affiliate, 1360, on the flagship station of the American Freedom Network, who is saying in some cases, torture might be okay.
And I said, well, I don't know if he said that.
I don't know who the guy is, but I might want to have him on the air and debate that and discuss that.
I'm pretty congenial about it, and supposedly my office has been getting some calls, but my staff's been out because they're, well, one of my people's on a vacation, so I haven't been checking the messages.
And so I got a call on air, well, you know, folks want to debate you.
So I said, hey, well, let's get in touch with them right now.
And to have him on, but I don't even know what his views are yet, because I've never heard him on the radio, don't know anything about him.
So now we're going to find out, and we can all have a discussion.
Colonel Roberts and Jack McClam, Alex Jones, and Yako Spivak, the rabbi.
Tell us exactly, just so I know, what your views are, because I don't want to just keep hearing it from listeners.
I'd like to hear it from you.
unidentified
Well, what I said on the air was that there was a scenario in which Saddam Hussein knew where a hundred American boys and girls in uniform would be blown up by a bomb, and he said he wasn't going to tell us.
And there was no other way to get that information out of him except to torture him.
So, I said if there was no other way, then we would have to do it in such a case, then we would have to go ahead and do it that way in order to save those boys and girls.
Rabbi, Rabbi, Rabbi, you just said three words, but about fifty, but the point is, here is, I believe the military-industrial complex carried out September 11th, and I have the evidence of that, so you've got people who've been caught putting out fake terror alerts, you've got people who've been caught saying we need terrorist attacks to get the people behind this, and I'm saying look at it all in context.
I guess you think Do you think that the globalists weren't involved in 9-11?
unidentified
Mr. Jones, you invited me on your program because of a one statement that I made.
I'm trying to stick to it, and you're giving me a hard time about that, but I'd like to stick to the statement.
Okay, how can we say Saddam Hussein is evil because he tortured people if we're having discussions of torturing him?
unidentified
The reason that I was asked on this program was because I said that if there was only one way to save American boys and girls in uniform, to find out where he had that particular bomb that was to torture him, I said scripturally it would be required.
Okay, well, you can do that in just a second, and of course, sir, you're on my show and I appreciate you coming on, and I don't want to be on your show.
I'd come on if you wanted me to, but you know, this is a forum here, and so let's bring in Jack McClam, police against the New World Order, who's been there, police officer, a veteran, you name it.
I'm a military veteran, as Craig is, and now a retired law enforcement person, as Brother Craig is.
And so we've seen it from that side, and I've seen torture in my career, and I've always understood that if, and this has happened, where I had brother officers threatened with death And we were asked to do certain things and we refused to do it to save the lives of our fellow police officers out there because it was suggested that this might happen if we don't do these things.
And I don't believe we were wrong.
It didn't happen.
Those scenarios didn't happen, praise God.
But there has to be a line drawn between the civilized people of the world and those that are not civilized.
And I think the American people from the beginning of this nation chose the right side of not getting into torture.
And it's worked very well for us over these years to be the example for the rest of the world.
Well, you know, like we said earlier, and I don't know if the rabbi heard it, I don't know if he's listening on the radio or not, but You know, my stand on it from the military aspect is, you know, war is different than civilian life.
Here, there is no Fifth Amendment for prisoners overseas.
Uh, whatever it takes to get information short of physical abuse.
Once we cross the line into physical abuse, then what we've done is we've done the same thing the enemy has and we're no better than they are and they can come back to haunt us because should a prisoner escape or be let loose and go back and say, look what the Americans did to me, then all of a sudden if they've got any of our prisoners, They're going to do worse.
I have to agree with some of what he's saying, too, in the sense that that airplane now becomes a battle zone.
You're in combat at that time to save your lives, the lives of the passengers, and the target destination.
Obviously, the airplane can't be set on automatic pilot for a given place like that.
Being a pilot, I know this, but given a scenario that say it could, Yeah, I'd take this guy down, and I would beat him senseless if I thought I could save our lives and get in a cockpit, but that is a battle that has just been engaged at that point.
We can work on that without having to physically abuse him, which they would in turn do to our prisoners.
It's a different scenario.
But what the rabbi just outlined, Yeah, I think anybody would be authorized to defend yourself just like the same way, you know, if your wife gets attacked at the mall.
Well, you can go one step further when we get back and we'll get Jack McClam's comment on this.
Because, no, we're not going to open that Pandora's box, folks.
This government can't be trusted.
Period.
unidentified
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Mainstream press tells us we're having a stock market recovery.
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I heard the same thing.
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You heard the same thing.
The Dow Jones Industrial Average currently trading in a 93 to 9400 range is down 7% from two years ago.
Call For Savings00:03:44
unidentified
That's recovery?
Gold, now trading in the $360 range, is up 31% in that same period.
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crime labs including the fbi crime lab the houston crime lab the chicago crime
lab have been caught framing people on an industrial scale All the time, police get caught torturing suspects.
Police, it turns out, that are drug dealers themselves.
Think of the teams out in LA.
And once you open this box, we're hearing this argument in the sitcoms, and the dramas, and on the news, and the heroes torture people to get the answers, to save everybody, while we've got a torturing to save New York, or to save whatever.
and uh... it's it's amazing and now we're discussions of mass roundup camps in major publications and martial law but it's to save us it's to keep us safe uh... we're gonna go back to the rabbi here in a second but i wanted to get jack mcclam to be able to give us his take on what the rabbi's been saying go ahead well the rabbi gives us a scenario that i would imagine uh... this is a fight or flight scenario it's a uh... imminent Uh, right to self-defense scenario he's talking about and if I were to look around at my fellow passengers and say, shall we torture this guy to get this combination?
Probably 100% would have said, fine, let's do it now.
That's not saying that we should have a government policy where it's okay to torture people.
It's like struggling with somebody to get the keys away from them.
That's a fight right there, but that's the argument being sold to institutionalize torture, and there is an attempt to do this.
Go ahead, Rabbi.
unidentified
All right, let me just base it in Scripture one moment.
First, just give me two minutes here.
Number one, the Scripture says that if you find, and people will find that, Exodus 22.1, that says that if a robber comes into your basement, you're allowed to kill him, or you're allowed to do anything else to save your life, including torture, as implied by that, because of the fact that the robber under scripture law is called the gabrakath
pila.
He's a dead man walking because he knows you're going to kill him.
Saddam Hussein was stuck down in a little Spider hole, now it's coming out and been captured by the Kurds for weeks.
And so your scenario again, which is let's just think about torture.
And then you're sitting there saying, oh, robbers in your house.
It says you can torture them.
What you just read didn't say torture.
It said defend yourself.
unidentified
It said defend yourself.
And there were two issues here.
The first issue is on a personal level, you're allowed to kill someone if they're threatening you.
And the second issue is you're allowed to kill someone who's going to kill someone else.
And if it takes killing, you're allowed to do, fine.
If it takes torture, you're allowed to do it, fine.
Killing someone else to prevent person B from killing person C, you are allowed to torture person B, and that is the right of the scripture and the Judeo-Christian ethic.
Wait a minute, I always hear people say that Al-Qaeda's evil, they torture people, but I guess they're evil so their torture's bad, our torture would be good.
unidentified
The Bible, which is a source of ethics for man, says You are required to stop person B from killing person C. And if you don't do it, you have a certain responsibility.
I mean, look, overall, it's opening Pandora's box here, folks.
And this is the argument we've heard throughout history, and I believe from the scriptures you read, you're taking that out of context and deriving things, going, it's inferred.
Well, as a law enforcement person, I mean, it is such a reach what the rabbi says here in the scriptures about self-defense being allowing torturing.
I can see me as an officer going into a house and a lady has been accosted by a burglar and I come in and to defend herself, she cut him up in little inch pieces and has him on the table laid out there.
We have a government that's engaged in 50 million abortions.
We have a government that frames people, that puts viruses in the vaccines.
We have a government that's tested chemical and biologicals on our troops, lets them breathe depleted uranium by the thousands.
Their own scientist admits it's killing them.
They could care less about the troops, okay?
So you've got to look at this all in total.
You cannot have this government coming in with any type of torture system.
Now certainly, as Colonel Roberts said, And I agree with the rabbi that this magic scenario happened where the plane was on remote control and that you had to make the guy, you know, do something.
That is fight or flight.
That is combat.
But see, the argument is we've got a war on drugs.
That's why you don't have any rights.
A war on terror.
See, that's why the rights don't exist.
Oh, see, we are at war.
It is a war scenario.
This is the argument.
Now look at those pushing.
And I'm not talking about the rabbi, Yaakov Spivak.
I'm talking about the New World Order crowd that I see on the news giggling and laughing about torture and how wonderful it is.
We become the Saddam Hussein.
We become the Joseph Mingelis.
I want to get into some other news and a bunch of calls, and I want Colonel Roberts and Jack McClann to be able to plug the great stuff they have to offer, the videos, the books, all of it, the newsletters.
And I want to get into some of this other news, more on the mad cow, the martial law news, all of it, and the callers, Mary and Tom and Spencer and others have been holding for an hour.
But real quick, Jack McClam, finish up what you were saying, then Colonel Roberts, and I'm going to let the rabbi have a few comments, and then Pastor Butch Paul on this network has some comments about scripture.
We're going to bring him up last and let our guests go.
But go ahead, Jack McClam, finish what you were saying, because that's what I was thinking of.
It's like you come in, This man tried to rape this woman, or rob her, and she's got him on the rack, breaking his back.
She's committing a crime greater than his robbery.
You can kill him to defend yourself, but you don't put him down in the basement as your slave or whatever, because they're the walking dead.
Yes, the Bible, you can't equate the biblical right to self-defense with torture.
You know, the Bible does not say anywhere that in self-defense you have a right to torture people to death, or torture them near death, even.
And so, I think that if we go that way in our society, we are no different than the heathen out there.
That's what the scenario is.
If we accept that, then that little lady who's been burgled, And is in fear of her life, can do anything she wants to to that guy because she's in fear of her life.
And if you have a prisoner there, and you parade a pig around out there, and you have somebody digging a hole in the ground, and you walk up to the guy, and you say, you know what?
If you make the colonel mad, there's a good possibility that they're going to end up having to shoot you, and throw you in the hole with that pig, and you're going to go to hell and burn for eternity.
Okay, let's, Rabbi, we've been so honored to have you on.
You've got some final comments here and then I want to bring Pastor Butch up real quick to talk to you.
unidentified
What I meant, Alex, by the fact that finding a robber in your basement, you could do two things.
You could either shoot him through the head and kill him, or you could hit him with a baseball bat and he'd have torture in his brain all his life.
So that's a scenario that I think one could consider.
However, what I'm saying is you have guests on your program today that were given We've been given weapons to defend their country, to defend their city, as law enforcement officials.
Sometimes, if they don't use the weapon when they should have, they could be brought up on charges, and sometimes when they use the weapon when they shouldn't have, they should be brought up on charges.
So we give them a weapon because we're reasonable people, and we can delineate reasonable rules and regulations without having to come on to paranoid pictorials.
I have been preaching the gospel of Christ for 27, 28 years, and the Bible is my life.
And with all due respect to the rabbi, I have never heard such a twisting of the scriptures in my life to stretch it to the point where you can go on to prove what he has to say.
That's the most absurd statement I've ever heard, to take those two scriptures.
I've preached them many times in the light of self-defense or defense of others.
There is no biblical ground for torture ever in the Scriptures, and I will state that equivocally, no questions, no way to get around this.
There's no ground in Scripture anywhere for torture.
There's none.
If there were, then when they tortured the disciples, when they tortured Christ, then they were doing absolutely right, obviously, because there's nothing wrong with torture.
And you and I both know, as anyone who knows the Scripture knows, that the torture is absolutely ungodly, and we'll send the torturer to hell for doing that job.
Well, in fact, if I can comment on this, I respectfully disagree with the Revenant as one who, as a rabbi who has studied the scripture in its original in Hebrew, and understand the nuances, instead of waiting for it to be translated into English, I can say unequivocally that if somebody is trying to kill another person, That the scripture will hold you responsible if you don't do anything and everything to prevent person B from killing person C, including torture, and not only do I say it is permitted, I say it is required.
That's where we disagree.
I agree 100%.
By the way, I also studied Greek and Hebrew, the background, I studied it deeply, because it is my life, and I do know this, Yes, to defend others is absolutely biblical.
Proverbs 24, 11, 12 says so.
But, to torture someone, there's no right given for that at all.
Let me ask you one question, Reverend.
If you saw one person, under the scenario that I have described, that the only way to save those American boys and girls in uniform was to torture the information out of Saddam Hussein, you were telling me you wouldn't do it.
Rabbi, hey listen, I want to have you back up in a month or so to have this debate again, and I appreciate you coming on.
Thank you for having me.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and we become that which we fight when we step into the darkness, and I think you're wrong, but I appreciate you coming on to defend your ideas.
I think Pastor Rich Paul said it right, that It is never good to do evil to do good.
You know, that's something we must always remember because we see this happening in other nations where nations have been under a different belief system, not a Christian system, believe it's good to do evil if your goal is good.
This is the epitome of the system we've now adopted in the United States.
The end justifies the means.
And it is wrong for a Christian America, but it is absolutely correct for the kind of nation we're becoming.
And that's a barbaric nation that will have a totalitarian world system.
Well, anytime you buy a ticket on the Devil's Train, you expect to go to one destination only, and it's going to be one you don't like, and it's always downhill.
You can't You know, once you start using physical abuse, you know, going back to Leviticus, if you go to Leviticus, there's a hundred things in there that's a death sentence.
I think this whole torture thing in regards to Saddam Hussein and the evil people in Iraq is that it's supposed to make every single person in Europe hate us.
Because, you know, they get all the... They see all the bad things that we're doing.
What I'm worried about is the American citizens, and I'm also worried about the enemy.
Because what happens when the word gets out that we tortured some Muslim suspect, and then an American soldier disappears from walking down the street some night, and we get him back in little pieces outside the main gate the next morning?
We don't want that to happen.
We don't want to give them any excuses to do to us any type of torture stuff either.
If they're going to do it, let's don't instigate it.
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Two weeks after 9-11 in 2001, the Associated Press did a poll in New York.
And the majority of women, 60 plus percent, were for torture, for putting all the Arabs in concentration camps.
It said concentration camps.
It was like 35 percent of men.
And so the globalists carry out these attacks, get us so scared, and now camps, torture, all this.
They start putting it into the group consciousness, this is the solution, this will keep you safe, we must do this.
Well, it's the globalists doing it all to begin with, creating the Saddam's, creating the Bin Laden's, giving the nuclear reactors in North Korea.
Before we go to Tom in Iowa, and that'll be the last caller, I do want to encourage everybody to get 9-11 Road to Tyranny, Masters of Terror, Police State 3 Total Enslavement, my new film Matrix of Evil that has Colonel Roberts in it by the way.
That's 888-253-3139, or prisonplanet.com, or infowars.com, or write to me, Alex Jones,
at 3001 South Lamar, Suite 100, Austin, Texas, 78704.
Now, Colonel Roberts' website is RifleWarrior.com and you can get to Jack McClam's amazing website as well by just typing into his search engine, Police and Military Against the New World Order.
Now, what was that, Mark?
Okay, thank you.
He was telling me about some callers hanging up.
Folks, it is so important to go to their websites to get their information.
It's amazing stuff.
I want to cram this last caller in, but Craig Roberts, Jack McClam, plug your contact info, your books, your videos.