Dr. Cynthia Larson examines the Mandela Effect—27-30% of people falsely recall Nelson Mandela dying in prison—linking it to quantum bifurcations and UC Berkeley’s Dr. Yasanori Nomura’s multiverse theory, where time overlaps. She dismisses the Large Hadron Collider as a direct cause but suggests collective consciousness shapes reality, citing "Berenstain Bears" misspellings and Star Wars misquotes. Quantum entanglement and emotional detachment may explain spontaneous healings or lost objects reappearing, though Larson avoids attributing shifts to time travelers. The discussion leaves unsettled whether history itself is fluid or just human memory, sparking calls on quantum jumps and precognition. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you are in the world's time zones, each and every one of them covered like a blanket.
By midnight in the desert, my name is Art Bell, and I've got so much breaking news tonight that I have no idea where to start.
Rules of the show.
Try to keep it normal.
Rules of the show.
No bad language because it is unnecessary.
And just, you know, we've got a lot of young listeners, too.
So keep it in mind.
Only one call per show.
That's an absolute rule that I try to enforce.
And you better follow.
All right, down to the breaking news.
First item, I'm just going to throw this out there.
No confirmation of any kind right now, but I do have a photograph for you.
Have the Phoenix Lights returned.
Now, this is a photograph that was taken out somebody's car window not very many hours ago.
And it sure as hell looks like the Phoenix lights.
So I don't know what to say.
We have a lot of...
We're going to be in the Phoenix market big time real soon, but I can't give that away right now.
So if you're listening in Phoenix on the net, know that you've got a big affiliate coming.
But moreover, if you're listening and you really have seen these lights, go to artbell.com, scroll down a little bit below my guest info, and you're going to see this, a very clear shot out of car.
And boy, oh boy, it looks like Phoenix lights.
So nothing beyond that.
This could be a one-time forget-it deal.
What I'm going to talk about now is not a one-time forget-it deal.
And I have breaking news next hour, too, that is creepy.
But this hour, returning to what we broke last night on this program.
Today, I had a million emails in my box saying, oh, another hoax.
You got caught in a hoax.
No, I didn't.
And no, it's not.
What I said last night is exactly what I say today.
Only today, it's in places like, well, the Washington Post.
I heard ABC TV did a story on it tonight.
Headline being the strange star that has serious scientists talking about an alien megastructure.
That's the headline in the Washington Post, folks.
Let me read a little bit from this article.
It was kind of unbelievable that it was real data, said Yale University astronomer Tap the Boizhang.
We were scratching our heads for any idea that came up.
There was always something that would argue against it.
She was talking to the new scientist about KIC 8462852, a distant star with a very unusual flickering habit.
Interesting way to put it.
Something was making the star dim drastically every few years, and she wasn't sure what.
I'd like to add that at times as much as 22% dimming.
Bojan wrote up a paper on possible explanation for the star's bizarre behavior, and it was published recently in monthly notices of the Royal Astronomical Society.
But she also sent her data to fellow astronomer Jason Wright.
He's at Penn State, a researcher who helped develop a protocol for seeking signs of unearthly civilization, wondering what he'd make of it.
Well, to Wright, when he got it, it looked like the kind of star that he and his colleagues had been waiting for.
If none of the ordinary reasons for the star's flux quite seemed to fit, perhaps an extraordinary one was in order.
Aliens.
Or to be more specific, something built by aliens.
A swarm of megastructures.
That's in quotes.
As he told the Atlantic, likely outfitted with solar panels to collect energy from the star.
When she showed me the data, I was fascinated about how crazy it looked.
Wright said, aliens should always be the very last hypothesis you consider, but this looked like something you would expect from an alien civilization or an alien civilization to build.
Skipping down, but finding from the program, the finding from the program was unlike anything else scientists had ever seen.
Volunteers marked it out as unusual in 2011, right after the program began, actually, a star whose light curve seemed to dip tremendously at irregular intervals.
At one point, about 800 days into the survey, the star's brightness dropped by 15, an astounding 15%.
Later that day, later that day at about 1,500, it dropped by a shocking 22%.
Whatever was causing the dips, it could not have been a planet.
Even something the size of Jupiter, the biggest in our solar system, would only dim this star by 1% as it transited across, Slate reported.
The Kepler telescope was badly damaged in 2013, so the researchers don't have data from recent dips, if there have been any.
Skipping down again, scientists, at least the ones who like to theorize about these things, have long said that an advanced alien civilization would be marked by its ability to harness the energy from its sun rather a scrappling over its planet's resources like us puny earthlings.
They envision something like a Dyson sphere.
What is a Dyson sphere?
A hypothetical megastructure first proposed by physicist Freeman Dyson that would orbit or even encompass a star, capturing its power and putting it to use, reminding you a Dyson sphere has never been spotted in real life.
They're all over science fiction, but if one were to exist, it wouldn't look like a metal ball around the sun.
It would probably be a compromised chain of smaller satellites or space habitats, something that would block its star's light as weirdly and irregularly as this star's light has been blocked.
That's why researchers who are interested in finding alien life are very excited about the finding.
So that gives you a little clue.
That's from the Washington Post today.
And now it's going viral.
Jim Elvich holds a master's degree in electrical engineering from Cornell University.
He's applied his training in the high-tech world as a leader in technology.
He also holds four patents in digital signal processing, has written articles for publication as diverse as Monitoring Times and the IEEE Transactions on Geoscience.
For many years, Elvidge has kept pace with the latest research, theories, and discoveries in the varied fields of subatomic physics, cosmology, artificial intelligence, and nanotechnology.
So at another date, we will have much to talk about with Jim.
This unique knowledge base has provided the foundation for his first book, The Universe Solved.
But not tonight.
Tonight, we are going to concentrate on one thing and one thing only, but we're going to have you back, Jim, to discuss all the rest of these things.
I really want to talk about AI and nanotechnology.
If there is, we'd be having a very different conversation.
But even the one we're going to have, in my view, and you and I are going to differ on a few things, perhaps, is going to be an interesting one no matter what.
Now, these light dips, what explains these light dips?
Okay, so I'm sure you probably talked about this a little bit last night, too, if you introduced this last night.
But for new listeners, if you could imagine if you're looking at the sun, but from a position fixed relative to the sun behind, say, Jupiter, every time Jupiter moved in front of you, it would block out some of the sun's luminosity, and the total amount of light that you would be receiving would be dropping down.
That's essentially the way the Kepler Space Telescope works.
It points at certain stars, certain distant stars, and it looks for these small dips in light, in the intensity of the light that it's receiving from those stars.
And it has ways to kind of check the data and make sure that this isn't something that's an aberration.
But that little dip is usually caused by a planet that transits, is the word that's used, transits in front of that star and blocks out some of the light.
And they've found so far over 1,000 exoplanets, is what they call them, in 440 star systems.
They've got a bunch of unconfirmed ones that they're still trying to test.
And one of the things to mention, too, is that an object of the size we talked about wouldn't even be a planet.
It would have enough gravity to create its own fusion, and it would be a brown dwarf or a small star, you know, and then we would see light from it, which we don't.
So it's something dark.
And yeah, so if you were looking, all the information that we're going to get out of this is from these two kind of signal events, and they were separated by a couple of years.
The first one happened 800 days after they started recording, so a little more than two years, and then the second one happened a couple years after that.
Well, because of global warming, because of what we've done to the oceans, maybe man-made, maybe not, But one way or another, so many species and subspecies have gone extinct that people are talking about this as this time period as the beginning of another great extinction.
No, the point I was just trying to make here is that I think that the idea of harnessing all energy is similar to the idea of harnessing all the resources of the world, and that mentality may be what has led to some of the problems that we're having.
Well, this is where the two of us, before the show clashed a little bit, I said, look, and I'll say it now, how can we know the needs or the motives or the ideas of somebody that many light years away who probably wouldn't have, you know, we might be as ants to them.
Yeah, I think there's a lot of things that they could be looking at, and maybe not SETI, but some other organization, like spectral signatures of biological molecules or something like that would be kind of interesting.
And I think the technology is just not sensitive enough for that yet.
But those might be better ways to detect life elsewhere than radio waves.
Well, just traveling along with this for a moment, if what they suggest could be, or they conjecture could be, that these are actually alien megastructures of some sort, whether it be a Dyson sphere or Trump times 5 million, you know, Trump Tower times 5 million.
It's something big, and if it's built by intelligent beings, then here's where I'll come to maybe a second argument.
Looking at the chart, they've really only seen two instances.
There was a cluster of dips in luminosity in the most recent one, but the first one was a single dip down to 15%.
So it's kind of two events.
And those two events, they're not periodic.
If you went back the number of days between those two and turn the clock back that number of days before, we didn't see an event.
And it was just before that that they actually started recording this.
So what that means is that it's probably not something that's orbiting, that the drop in luminosity didn't come from the same thing that was orbiting.
So if it was a Dyson sphere and it was maybe an array of collectors or something like that, the second one was probably not the same as the first one.
Maybe it was something different.
The other thing, looking at the second signal, it looks really messy.
It drops by 22%, and then there's a few days later there's another drop by 5%, and then a few days later there's a drop by 10%.
And that doesn't smack of something artificial and clean and neat.
It smacks of something like the second Death Star that they created in Star Wars.
It was all half-built.
Something that's got holes in it.
So it doesn't look like a nice clean Dyson sphere that would be revolving around the star unless it's got some holes in it that just happen to be seen the second time around.
What is it that you think made the researcher at Penn State look at this and go and actually utter the word megastructures?
What would it be that would cause him to do that?
I mean, he had to think about his career and his life and a lot of things before he uttered a word like that that would begin to set off these headlines, right?
And by the way, at the beginning of the next hour, I'm going to send a chill right down your spine.
It may be nothing.
And when things may be nothing, I'll tell you so.
But the Washington Post article and this story, is what I ought to say, certainly is something and worth talking about.
Jim, just play along with me a little bit.
It's going to be an interesting, you know, if this keeps blowing up, as it were, it's going to be interesting in the sense that the Brookings Institution years ago did a study that basically said that the people out there, the American people and others, would go batsoid.
Institutions would collapse and, you know, dogs and cats would get along and whatever, you know, if we heard about aliens.
This is so far away and so tentative that it's not going to bring that on.
But it's already provoking an interesting reaction, Jim.
Very interesting.
I'm getting emails that are angry.
There are people actually quite angry about this, Jim.
I mean, I think that, and I don't necessarily disagree with the idea that we might be shielded from something significant that, so as to protect the collapse of an economy or, you know, a culture or something like that.
I could see that happening.
I don't know that something 1,500 light years away is going to scare people that much, like you said.
However, if you're willing to play with the idea that an alien civilization has done what they're suggesting might be done out there, they might well have a way to cover the distance between there and here, well, somewhat in excess of the speed of light.
And I actually, I'm with you there, Art, definitely.
I've read a lot of things about bending of space and then having your rocket follow the bend of space so that you kind of cheat relativity and actually get from point A to point B faster than the speed of light would otherwise allow you to do.
Other things, remote entanglement where you could actually communicate with something remotely if those particles were originally entangled.
I mean, who knows what technologies are out there 50 years ahead of us?
We can barely understand that, let alone thousands of years ahead, which a level two civilization obviously would be at least.
So I can remember the very, very early days of radio.
I remember the first television in the house.
And I'm still alive.
So a hell of a lot has happened.
I am now holding in my hand an iPhone 6.
And it has technology that was probably, I don't know, maybe 100 times, 1,000 times or even greater than that, greater than what the astronauts had when we went to the moon.
I think our horizon for coming up with reasonable projections into the future is barely 50 years.
It's really hard for us to go beyond that.
I mean, I think Jay Storrs Hall had this great concept of a utility fog, these nanotech foglets that could, you know, you could turn your living room into a kitchen at the flick of a switch.
And that was maybe 60, 70 years out.
So he was thinking pretty far out there.
And that's a mind-blowing idea.
And we're actually making progress toward that, believe it or not.
But yeah, it's pretty hard to think what things are going to be like 100 years out, let alone 1,000 or more.
And some of these civilizations, if we think that the Earth or the universe is really 13.7 billion years old, 1,000 years is just tiny compared to that.
So if there are other intelligent life forms out there, they're probably way beyond 1,000 years ahead of us and most certainly know of our existence and don't really care much about us or we know about it.
I mean, just take this particular Situation again, these are megastructures, if they are megastructures, that are so gigantic that you would have to imagine a type 2, I think type 3 civilization to build them, if that's what they are.
And if that's what they are and they were that, then we're seeing the results of whatever it is they did 1,500 years ago.
It's a race because the question is whether access to these things, and I read recently about access to DNA manipulation equipment is now frighteningly close to almost anybody.
Access to those things, access to nukes and so forth, if that is outpacing our conscious evolution, then we're in trouble.
The thing that I kind of look at, though, in a big picture way is every generation we have something like this.
In the 60s, there was the nuclear fear.
In the 70s, there was overpopulation fear.
Back in the Industrial Revolution, we thought that that was going to destroy civilization.
And somehow it never quite does.
We seem to push ourselves to the brink, and something comes along to save us, even us out.
And I think that's an interesting effect.
I'm not betting the farm on that that's going to continue, but it does seem to be that there is this evening out effect of society that happens over the years.
And one of the things that I don't think they consider, and again, I hate to rely on our ingenuity, our potential ingenuity to solve these things, but they haven't necessarily considered ideas like, oh, I don't know, you've probably read about this teenager that came up with a way to clean up the ocean or nanotechnology where these little bots just go out there and clean up the mess.
In the old world, Jim, the one you were talking about a little while ago, back in the 60s that I lived through, we managed not to destroy each other because of the fear of mutual destruction, right?
Absolute suicide, virtual suicide.
And that was a rational way for us to stay alive as a world.
Yeah, I guess the way I look at it is you mentioned a bell curve before.
And if you imagine on the right-hand side of the bell curve is the Mother Teresa's, and on the left-hand side of the bell curve is the ISIS.
And the large population is in the middle, and that bell curve continues to move to the right, and yet you still have that trailing tail on the left-hand side of evildoers.
So, you know, the question is: again, is technology going to be accessible to them at a more rapid race than they tail off as the bell curve moves to the right?
It was just a hare-brained idea, but the idea was what if there was something that you could send out into the world like, and it was, you know, kind of a precursor to the idea of the nanobots.
It would seek out all nuclear devices for however they could find them and dismantle them.
You know, so what a great invention that would be.
And they ruled out the debris field because of the lack of infrared radiation.
But that is based on the assumption that it was created by a collision.
Maybe there's another reason for a debris field.
I can't think of one right now, but we have an asteroid belt.
We have a very old solar system, but we have an asteroid belt.
It's not opaque enough to block out much of the sun, but maybe there is this very unusual type of asteroid belt debris field that orbits between stars.
It doesn't happen very often.
And of the 145,000 stars that Kepler has tracked, and it just happened to find one where there is this thing.
I don't know.
I mean, these are really tough questions, but I think the more they look at the data and maybe find other ways to confirm or deny some of these hypotheses, hopefully they'll come up with something that's a little more credible.
Well, again, you have a Yale University astronomer, right, as well as Penn State saying, look, we looked at all this stuff, and what we're saying is alien megastructures.
Now, I just can't imagine how much they must have sat around thinking about whether it would be really advisable to say these words before they said them.
I think because of the depth of the dip in luminosity, a planet can exist, and there's no known astronomical structure that's that big and that opaque that could cause that.
One of the things I thought was interesting about this, when I first saw it, I thought, okay, it's possible that there could be something that moved in front of the telescope, but far closer to the telescope than the actual star was.
And so it transited the star, but it was much, much smaller.
I see you lying back in a satin dress In a room where you do what you don't confess Sometimes I think it's a sin When I feel like I'm winning When I'm losing again Wanna take a ride exclusively on the Dark Matter Digital Network?
This is Midnight in the Desert with your host, Art Bell.
What we're going to do next is a little unorthodox.
We've got Dr. Cynthia Larson, I hope, coming on, if we can straighten up the Skype connection in a moment.
But first, what a day, huh?
I would appreciate many of you looking at the photograph we've got up on the website right now, the one that talks about Phoenix, and give us your take on that, as well as hearing from anybody in Phoenix who has seen what appears to be out that person's window.
Anyway, on this, how many of you, hold up your hands, have heard of numbers stations?
Well, that's a fair amount of hands.
Numbers stations are used by, well, spies.
Typically, they appear on shortwave frequencies all around the short wave band.
You can hear them.
And there'll be some lady saying 61, 7, 18, 4, 30, 32.
And, you know, it goes on and on like that, droning in a sort of a boring voice.
What those actually are are codes to operatives in the field way out there somewhere on the other side of the world.
Yeah, it lives on from the Cold War days.
Now, having said that, there is a frequency which is no secret.
It is 11,175 megahertz.
And on 11,175, we have SAC, the acronym for the Strategic Air Command, the guys who carry the big bombs.
Now, this is a well-known SAC frequency where planes communicate with base and each other and what have you.
And it's done in plain English.
What I'm about to play for you was recorded by a shortwave listener.
And I don't know who it is.
It's on Reddit.
You can investigate this further.
But they claim they recorded it on 11-175.
If they did, then it's pretty chilling.
If it's that frequency, this would be coming from SAC to I don't know who.
Now, the person that recorded it missed the very beginning, which in the very beginning just said to all stations.
Alert all stations.
And then this is going to seem strange to you.
It's not numbers, but it's clearly a code transmitted on the SAC frequency.
And at the end, it's going to be hard for you to hear.
I grabbed the wrong recording, but he says collapse out.
That's a call sign.
Collapse.
So listen very carefully.
And also, one other thing for you to note as you're listening to this, you're going to hear a little tiny echo.
And that echo is the signal going all the way around the world.
That's what's producing the echo that you're going to hear in this recording.
So you're not going to make anything out of it.
It's a code, but what's it doing on a SAC frequency?
And then you heard a couple touch tones designed to trip something.
Perhaps to turn the radio off on the other end.
I have no way of knowing.
But if, in fact, and again, I didn't record it.
It was recorded by somebody on Reddit.
But if in fact it really was, as they advertised, 11,175, then that was a little chilling.
Beyond that, I have no guesses for you about what you just heard.
So, coming up in a moment, Dr. Cynthia Sue Larson has a degree in physics from UC Berkeley, an MBA degree, and a doctor of divinity.
Dr. Larson is a best-selling author, researcher, and transformational speaker who helps people visualize and access new worlds of possibility.
She writes and teaches about the science of spirituality, how consciousness changes the physical world.
She's presented papers at international conferences on science, spirituality, and consciousness.
Results from Cynthia's How Do You Shift Reality surveys conducted in April of 2000 and June of 2013 document incidences of the most commonly experienced types of reality shifts.
And her Reality Shifters website has compiled one of the most extensive collections of reality shift reports in the world.
Her popular e-zign, also called Reality Shifters, is eagerly awaited each month by thousands of subscribers worldwide.
So coming up in a few moments, Dr. Cynthia Larson.
Man, what a night.
Was that weird or what?
You'd have to have the book to know what it meant.
unidentified
I don't care where I go when I'm gray.
When I cry, things are black.
Cause you know...
Anybody could be that guy.
Night is young and music's high.
Part of the Dark Matter Digital Network, this is Midnight in the Desert with your host, Art Bell.
Well, the first impression I had was, like you said, amazement, just pretty much because I do have some background working in space sciences, studying solar flare data.
This was many years ago.
And I know how boring most of that data can be.
It usually is extremely boring.
So the fact that anything was discovered on this magnitude is quite, well, it's attention grabbing.
But then I did look at the paper and some of the research because you can actually look that up and see why the researcher at Yale, and that would be Boyagian, she was basically coming to the conclusion in her paper that this looks like a breakup of an exocomet or a family of exocomets.
Well, there could be a lot of enthusiasm on the part of even scientists who do have feelings that maybe we are finally going to see some kind of evidence of other life than humans.
Well, I've been calling it the alive again phenomena before the term Mandela Effect became quite popularized.
And because, like you, I've been noticing sometimes people, or in my case, a cat had passed away and then the cat was alive again.
So it could be a celebrity.
In the case of Nelson Mandela, what's really interesting about the Nelson Mandela situation is that we, this year, 2015, have reached kind of a tipping point where there are something like maybe about 30% of the people asked, do you remember Nelson Mandela passed away when he was still incarcerated?
About 30% of the people believe that they do remember that.
And then the best way to ask these questions, of course, is to ask, when did a person die without tilting it one way or the other?
Well, the actual figure that I got in my survey conducted in 2013 was 27%.
So I'm saying, you know, that's pretty high.
It's more than a quarter.
And so what seems to be going on, and this is the reason I've been taking a look at it for so long, is that we're witnessing alternate histories.
And that really gets interesting because it seems like time is not what we think it is.
Facts may not be what we think they are.
And if someone can be dead and then die a second time or be alive again, you know, lots of people are reporting this phenomenon.
And it's not just Nelson Mandela.
Interestingly, just today, I heard about someone wrote me an email and mentioned that they thought Freeman Dyson had passed away about six, seven years ago.
And actually, I sort of remembered that too.
As of earlier today, he was still alive.
So hopefully he's alive to see that his name is being mentioned in conjunction with this amazing find with this KIC 8462852 situation.
So what we're noticing is that lots of things can change.
And we seem to take it in stride when people have a spontaneous remission of disease.
Well, we might be happy, of course, if it's our loved one that no longer has cancer and it's inexplicably cleared up.
And this did happen to my grandmother, so I've had a personal case in my family of witnessing this.
And I've known other people as well that have had these amazing spontaneous remissions without any kind of medical intervention.
And so that's another case of alternate history.
And it's the kind of thing that is studied at places like this.
It has to do with the way, like I said, facts and events can actually be different.
And so it starts getting important to keep a logbook or a ledger that includes three points in time, like X, Y, Z. So when you notice, like you did in the 1980s, that would be point Y, the bifurcation point.
And that would be, we'd mark it down, Art Bell in the late 1980s, so whatever date that was, remembered that Nelson Mandela had died at point X, which was, I don't know what date you remember.
And then the Z point would be the date that you record it.
So that's why three times matter.
And then later, you can record another event.
For example, Nelson Mandela might pass away again, as he did for some of us recently.
And that seems unusual because now, you know, something, you don't expect someone to die twice.
So you can, again, notice at this point in time, I heard that he had died at point X, and I'm hearing it here on day Y and recording it on day Z. All right, somebody will go back.
The similarity you're asking about, how is this similar to spontaneous remission?
So a spontaneous remission would be An example which is similar to death in a sense.
We'll take the case of my grandmother.
She was diagnosed with inoperable liver cancer when they were doing some exploratory surgery to check out adhesions in her intestinal area.
So, what they found out, and everything matched.
They matched the tissue sample with the CAT scans, with the blood tests, and it all came back saying she would be dead of liver cancer pretty much within six months' time.
And she was in her, you know, she was quite elderly, so she chose to have no chemotherapy, no surgery.
But she was very spiritual, so lots of people prayed for her.
And then the next thing that happened is when she went in for one of the routine checkups, they were checking the blood constantly.
They didn't see the usual signs and evidence of cancer in the system, so they took another set of CAT scans.
And that's when the doctors were stunned to report, you have no trace whatsoever of any kind of liver cancer.
They have no way to explain it.
That kind of a complete remission within just a couple months' time.
Well, actually, the doctor looked at my grandmother.
She is such a spiritual woman, she was.
And so she was smiling as he was just looking completely baffled.
So he had no explanation to give her.
But she knew, because she was a woman of faith, that obviously she was Lutheran and very firmly believed that God absolutely delivers this kind of miracle.
So for her, it was obvious.
To me, looking at it from the scientific standpoint, I don't see much difference between someone coming back to life and completely going into, I mean, completely clearing out all the cancer cells from their liver within just a couple of months.
That is very fast.
I mean, it's inexplicably fast.
There's no mechanism to explain exactly what happened other than to say that some of the same kinds of quantum phenomena that we witness on the microscopic scale could absolutely be happening in our daily lives as well.
Well, this is what I'm proposing, and it's just what I have so far.
Because I'm definitely looking to science and saying, you've got some explaining to do here.
Explaining.
I really am looking as much as I can to find out what's going on.
And thank goodness that we have scientists such as Dr. Yasanori Nomura at UC Berkeley.
And he and Rafael Busso have both been working with the Large Hadron Collider.
And I know Yasanori, I interviewed him recently.
And he has basically an outlook that says that the many worlds of the multiverse is the same thing as, you know, the many worlds of, excuse me, I got that a little backwards.
The many worlds of quantum physics is the same thing as the multiverse.
So he's bringing the quantum to the macroscopic scale and saying that it could be that time all exists around us and then these bifurcations in time happen in kind of little pockets near us.
So things can change.
In fact, the interesting thing about Yassinori is I swear he didn't exist when I was writing my book, Quantum Jumps, or I definitely would have mentioned all of the amazing papers he's written.
Okay.
And that's another example.
Somebody who doesn't seem to exist and then suddenly tell him that.
Do you actually believe or suspect that CERN, the large Hadron Collider, actually might be responsible for these shifts that we're talking about right now?
Well, it certainly is bringing people's awareness to the possibility of many worlds, of many possible realities, and just getting their minds going that direction.
Well, there is a lot of actually public awareness.
I think that does make a difference, because what I've noticed in 2015 is that finally people are noticing things like the Berenstein Bears, that famous children's book, and they're noticing the spelling of it.
Like if you just listeners right now, ask yourself, how do you spell, if you know this book with the bears, it's a family of bears, they're drawn as cartoons, how would you spell Berenstein Bears?
Okay, are you suggesting the large collider is somehow directly responsible for these time shifts, or are you suggesting people's awareness of the amazing things this collider is doing, you know, the fact that they're...
Hold on, please.
We're at a breakpoint.
That human consciousness has been enlarged just by thinking about the collider?
What I'm suggesting is we've finally reached a point where more than two-thirds of the physicists who are surveyed believe that you and I and every object, no matter how large, is actually in a superposition.
So, like we've heard of Schrödinger's cat that's alive and dead, you can have a live Nelson Mandela and a dead Nelson Mandela.
Okay, only from the point of view that the collective conscious awareness of the possibility of a multiverse is having an effect.
I believe that is what you might call the causative factor, much more than I don't think that actually what's happening inside the Large Hadron Collider is doing anything.
So it's not like you need to stop that and then everything would stop.
Because if it was just the physical action of the collider, I believe we'd still be, just like before the collider was built, you were noticing.
Because we didn't have a collider when you were on the air.
There are lots of other examples like that from lines in movies, such as in Star Wars, when Darth Vader says, you know, that famous line saying that something, he says something, and he says, I am your father.
And a lot of people remember that what he says is, Luke, I am your father.
But now, if you watch the movie, you'll see he actually says, no, I am your father.
It's little things like that that just seem like, well, who cares?
And that's where it ties back into spontaneous remission from disease.
I do see an absolute tie-in right there.
And it comes from looking at reality from a quantum point of view.
And that's where I go to Dr. Yasanori Nomura at UC Berkeley.
Because when I was talking with him in an interview, he really clarified it for me, explaining that if you look at time as the universe is really having no beginning and no ending, which is very much what Indigenous people have said, then what you're looking at is we live in a small branch of a complete quantum state.
And so we know what's going on in our immediate vicinity, but everything else that we're not looking at is a little fuzzy, so it might be changing.
And this is exactly what has been observed by researchers who conducted an experiment after the space shuttle explosion.
And they were at a university asking their students in a psychology class to write down what they were doing, how they found out, where they were when they heard the news.
This is called a flash bulb memory.
And then this is all in their own handwriting.
And then about a year later, they were asked the same questions again.
And this time, actually, I think maybe, you know, it may have been more than a year.
Anyway, some period of time had passed.
The students again wrote down in their own handwriting where they were, how they found out, all this stuff.
And then they were given side-by-side comparison with their original response.
And in several cases, people said, this is my handwriting, but that is not what happened.
What's happening is they're keeping things within that classical physics viewpoint.
And from there, you want to be able to measure everything.
You need to be able to see that things do stay the same, can't have facts changing on you.
You've got to be able to observe a system.
And after you've observed it, then you've taken the measurement.
And only the observer can clearly see what happened.
And they're certainly not affecting anything.
But we're now finding out, thanks to this push to develop quantum computers, that observers definitely are affecting things, that there are entanglements between components of any system, a quantum system, and there is that superposition of states.
And in the field of quantum biology, we're finding that this is actually mutating our DNA.
You know, we're having quantum superposition of states within our DNA that's leading to jumps in the development of new features in our species.
Doctor, you sound like an exceptionally bright person to me.
So let me run this by you.
The one thing that I've been trying to wrap my head around now for a long time is quantum entanglement.
I guess it cannot be explained, so it's not like I'm expecting you to explain it to me, but if you can, feel free.
But two particles that are close together flip and flop, to put it crudely, together.
And then when separated, no matter how far we separate them, they continue to flip and flop together, you know, regardless of everything, including the speed of light.
And that's just impossible, absolutely impossible.
And if you want to add a little to it, I recently read that some scientists have discovered something called quantum twisting.
That's really new science.
And that is going to suggest to some that quantum communication may become possible for us.
So let's see, where to begin?
Would you like to try and explain quantum entanglement and how that works?
So the idea with quantum entanglement is that it's basically, just like you said, you start by noticing that you, first of all, you've got a couple of particles that are in that relationship, and it's definitely a situation where they move in total synchronization,
regardless of what could be a rather large distance separating the two of them, in such a way that when you do something to take a measurement with one of the entangled particles, its pair simultaneously exhibits the opposite property.
So if one is spin up and the other one is spin down, and this is exactly what Albert Einstein was calling spooky action at a distance.
This is one of those, it really requires that you start thinking in a quantum way.
And when we look around our world, what I mean by that is we tend to assume that the only thing that matters is what we can measure.
And nature is giving us a Zen Koen.
Nature is handing us, when we look at this sort of a thing, when we look at superposition, when we look at entanglement, we're being given an opportunity to get into that meditative state and recognize, what if this is the real reality?
Instead of saying, oh, wow, that's weird, that can't be real, coming at it from the other state of mind and saying, well, it's the sound of one hand clapping.
Well, it seems impossible, but this is exactly the technology that we'll be utilizing with these new quantum computers that NASA has just now, and Google, they've signed up for just kind of like that smartphones deal where every time the new smartphone comes out, they get the new one.
They're going to get the new D-Wave computer every time the new one rolls off the assembly line.
And that's millions of dollars of computing technology.
So obviously, something is going on.
And I know there are skeptics that say that's not a real quantum computer.
Well, this is that idea, again, that we've got these superpositions of states, and so what you're thinking of is one branch communicating with another.
And this would be exactly the kind of things that we're talking about tonight, about the Mandela effect, about the Berenstain bears.
Let me suggest another possibility to you, and that is that we are living in the matrix, and that the changes that we're seeing, that you're describing tonight, are actually being manipulated, and we are but puppets on strings.
And this gets into artificial intelligence, which I'm also, you mentioned it earlier with the previous guest.
And I would say as soon as you start talking about being in the matrix, that is the first thing that comes up because what you're really talking about is the possible absence of free will and the fact that maybe everything is preordained.
But actually, I would hope that we don't ever live in that kind of a nightmarish situation.
And Max Tegmark and people like that, have definitely put it out there.
But then when you look at your own life and you ask yourself, does that feel, and here we get into the idea of consciousness, and what is that, which is the so-called hard problem.
Because we really don't know what it is that makes each of us aware of who we are and how we uniquely feel about things.
Why, when you hear a certain song, you get a certain feeling about it that's different than what someone else gets.
Doctor, since you are obviously fascinated with AI, a good question for you would be, how do you what test would you use to determine that a real AI state had been reached?
Well, one of my favorite questions to ask people is for them to describe how good they think something can get.
So imagination is definitely a characteristic of our individual personalities, and it can show where a person feels passionate about something, what troubles them.
And so that would be an interesting way to see if you get anything that actually sounds informative.
But what's happening with a lot of these people that are trying to pass these kind of AI tests as they're designing to the tests?
So they would hear something like this and say, aha!
Now we'll make it very clever so they can't tell that our AI system is actually going to be ready for that question.
Eventually, I feel, Doctor, it'll take us off to the side here, but I think, and I said to my last guest, that we're eventually going to have to talk about animal rights.
I bet we're going to get there.
It may not be and probably will not be in my lifetime, but it's coming.
Well, that'll be a little further down the road when it gets to be believed by the masses.
Actually, it almost comes back to what we began talking about in the first place, and that is what people believe and what is or isn't really true, and how much could really be false about everything we think is true.
It's horrible to even try and wrap your head around this.
Well, fortunately, thanks to that entanglement concept we mentioned earlier, this is actually a saving kind of grace, because thanks to entanglement and coherence, which are two aspects of quantum physics, then we know that something, you just see a little bit of it, like you see one part of your cat and then the rest of it's behind a chair, you know the rest of the cat is there.
We're learning so much about these basic aspects of quantum physics, and we have to understand it better than we ever have before in order to build the quantum information systems that are necessary for quantum computing.
Are you aware of the work being done that has little sampling computers around the world looking at consciousness they think that was going on at Princeton?
And so what's going on, a lot of the things I'm talking about tonight have to do with this revolution that's occurring, that we are actually in the quantum age right now, thanks to the fact that the technology of the quantum computers are here.
So it's just like the new age of fire has arrived.
And in the quantum logic, you definitely have Logic gates that go backward and forward through time.
So there is some kind of like a handshake between a past event and a future event.
And that's definitely absolutely part of the way that these logic gates function.
And we don't tend to think much.
We think we've got logic.
We think we know what we're talking about when we say that's not logical.
But we're really only thinking in terms of classical computing logic, that Boolean symbolic logic developed back in 1847.
Dr. Larson, Dr. Cynthia Larson, is my guest, and obviously we're going to have to have her back for another program because I can hear two more programs than what we've already done, and we've only just begun.
Let me give you the phone number information so we can get some of you in on this discussion.
My public number is 952.
That's area code 952-225-5278.
So you would dial one in front of it, of course.
952-225-5278.
There are other ways.
You can join us on Skype, of course.
If you have a smartphone of some sort or a tablet or whatever, download Skype.
It's free.
And then when you do, go into Skype, go to the Add a Contact place.
It's usually a little plus sign on the upper right-hand side.
And add us.
It's that simple.
Add us.
It's in North America, Canada, and America, M-I-T-D 5-1.
M as in Mary.
I as in India.
T as in Tom.
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51.
Then we'll be in your contact list, and you can punch us up and call us for free anytime.
Outside the USA and Canada, it's M-I-T-D 5-5.
That's M-I-T-D 55.
All that in mind, we'll get to the phones quite quickly here, I think.
There are, however, a couple of other areas I want to go down.
Your book is called Quantum Jumps, and I just love the sound of that.
Well, essentially, it's pretty much the subject we're talking about tonight, that we can experience instantaneous transformation.
And it's not so much a magical thing.
It's basically pointing out that you can work with a very natural method that's already going on in your life.
It's just that most people are not aware of it.
They don't know what's going on.
But unbeknownst to most people, things are being studied at some of our great universities right now, such as Harvard, where they're looking at embodied cognition.
And there are examples in my book that actually embodied cognition.
Well, something that you could think of as a power pose, such as putting your hands behind your neck, or if you're able to just stand up and put your hands on your hips.
Or if you're sitting with a chair next to you and you put your arm out, extending it on the chair next to you.
Basically, any of those expansive movements have a physiological effect of improving your levels of testosterone while decreasing the stress hormone of cortisone.
And it's giving you a measurable improvement in confidence that other people can instantly pick up on if they're just assessing you in a surveying, such as an interview situation.
So basically, it's based on this idea that St. Augustine presented years ago, you know, a long time ago, where he said the mind commands the body and it obeys.
And there's so much research happening.
I'm mentioning the work that Amy Cuddy is doing.
But there are lots of research laboratories around the world from Chicago to Singapore.
Just lots of universities are studying ways that you can make a fist or stretch your fingers to increase willpower.
And you can do things like skipping just to increase energy.
You can get up and wiggle from time to time to stay awake.
So this is something that some of the university professors are using in their classes to get the story.
So what's happening is you're definitely, you know, obviously instructing your body that no matter how you were feeling before that, you're getting the benefit of the exercise itself, of course.
So skeptics would say, well, you're just getting the blood flowing and so forth.
But it doesn't explain why some of these other things would work, such as making a fist and then suddenly you can stick to your diet or resist temptation, that kind of thing.
And so there's definitely a bigger factor at work.
So the fact that you're doing jumping jacks is not just working the body, but it's the body, mind, and spirit together.
So that's what I would say.
You're basically jumping, you're literally jumping into that reality where you've got that kind of energy.
You're feeling so I'm sure you've experienced this.
You might not be feeling that great before you do the jumping jacks.
Yes, because I did my best to just pack it full of incontrovertible or incontroversible, non-controversial research that people can all agree with.
This is something that has been tested.
It absolutely works.
As well as I actually love a lot of the mind-matter interaction situations that people share.
And so I've got, the book starts out kind of normally, and then as you go through it, it gets weirder and weirder, you know, until it gets to the point where people are bilocating and avoiding tremendous accidents by teleportation.
And what I'm suggesting is a lot of the things that you witnessed.
And the explanation, what's going on, once again, it's what the same thing that I was telling you, Dr. Yassinori Nomura at UC Berkeley has explained to me, that we basically can expect to see these occasional sorts of behaviors and phenomena, the quantum physics that we would witness.
Things like tunneling that you expect to see where, for example, an electron can go through a barrier.
It's not that different It's just a different size scale When occasionally You're not routinely seeing cars go through 18-wheelers.
Doctor, what would you even suspect is driving that instance?
If it really happens, if somebody really passes through a vehicle unharmed and lives where they should have died, definitely should have died, what agent is at work that allows that?
All I've got to offer right now is just the idea that as above, so below, that we've got this idea of quantum physics is the primary logic in the universe.
So a lot of people assume that quantum is something you can sweep under the rug, kind of like you sweep dust under the rug.
And so that tunneling and that weird entanglement and the superposition of states, that's happening down where we don't have to see it, and the computers are going to take care of it.
It gets back to, you know, what does it mean if there's a superposition of states?
And what we're finding through quantum biology and wonderful work of researchers that are taking a look at the way photosynthesis works and so forth is this whole idea of quantum physics and all the so-called weirdness of it is happening at pretty much every scale.
It's happening with DNA.
It's happening with photosynthesis.
I know those are small things.
But then you go to the large scale, you're looking at the universe, you're looking at star clusters.
And absolutely, scientists are definitely in agreement that we should expect to see as above, so below, that this idea of quantum supersposition of states should hold for every single level of reality.
Do you think that a person could put themselves in a state in which they could precipitate a quantum jump, save their own life, or change what otherwise was going to happen?
In other words, could it be a very strong projected intent that would cause this?
Because our minds are kind of slow to process, and we are very habit-based creatures.
So until we get to a point where we start envisioning things differently and having a different idea about the way things work.
So just the fact that you have your program is wonderful because people, their minds are expanding.
They're not limited by the kind of confinements that most educators would keep us to.
Because people can have doctoral degrees and not quite understand what's going on because they're so narrowly focused.
And so one of the best things you can do is just recognize these things can happen, that it's possible that no matter what a dangerous situation might be happening, some people have absolutely seen what you would call a miracle, you know, that you Can actually tunnel through an 18-wheel vehicle as it's barreling directly toward you.
Oh, I listened to you for years, and when you disappeared there for a while, it was just kind of like, oh, no.
And Cynthia, you're a genius.
And, you know, I've had the Mandela thing myself because I remember reading in the paper and watching television that he had died.
And then years later, he's back.
And I'm like, what?
But the big one was back between 1973 and 1975, I distinctly remember watching the nightly news, and it was in the papers the next day, that Iran had come into the nuclear age with an above-ground nuclear test.
I mean, just distinct.
I remember that exactly.
And when I started talking about all this stuff about Iran developing nuclear weapons, I go, well, damn 40 years ago.
You almost have to wonder, Doctor, if there are very large differences individually or whether these things are sort of across the board with a healthy percentage of the population.
What I've found is people experience, well, there can be little pocket clusters where people tend to agree.
And on something like the Mandela effect, where people do remember Nelson Mandela passing away while he was incarcerated, then there can be kind of a huge cluster where lots and lots of people are noticing that.
But it is possible for one person in a family to remember their childhood quite differently than other family members, for example.
Well, the idea of, I mentioned quantum cognition earlier, and so there's something, and these ideas from quantum physics of entanglement, we touched on that.
So you can actually think of it in terms of the way the memory system works.
And there's some fabulous work being done by Zhang Wang at the University of Ohio.
And she collaborates with a number of other quantum cognition experts.
This is a brand new field.
All these areas we're talking about, this is cutting-edge science right now.
And what we're finding is that systems of memory definitely act a lot more like the quantum logic that we've been talking about, where, for example, there's kind of a fuzziness and what scientists used to think was a very illogical memory system that humans have.
It's only not classical logic.
It is definitely quantum logic.
So it depends, if you give someone a survey, for example, and you ask the questions in a certain sequence, their answers will depend on what order the questions came in.
And according to the old classical logic, that should not be the case.
But that definitely is the case.
And so in a similar vein, getting back to your question, this is how, for example, two individuals can have different memories, and also how one person could even notice an alternate history from something.
Like you could put your keys down, walk away, come back, and the keys are not there.
So it's what I would call a reality shift, and it's one of the more common ones.
Or noticing your socks are not there in the dryer.
Not too much, but there's so much going on right now.
It's amazing.
Like I said, we're in this boom time period of developments happening.
So it's extraordinary.
And I would expect that something, you know, right now we don't have the distance that you would need between planets, like between Earth and Mars, for example.
But it just seems like every year the distance between two entangled particles is getting farther and farther.
So I would expect if you can get to miles, then why not get from Earth to Mars?
I was probably on speakerphone unless I ended up what happened.
I've got to send a shout out to the heartbeat, undercover fans, everybody.
We're always listening to you and chatting while we're listening to you.
And just the guest tonight is awesome.
Yes.
And I wanted to, with what you mentioned about the doctoral degrees in their mind, it's like I've really noticed a lot of doctors now are starting to get more awakened.
And possibly like you, it's like they're quickening and shifting a lot of the more younger, like at least some of the younger doctors.
But one of the things that I've noticed, and it's just a simple little thing, and it could be something that has to do with concentration.
It's gone on all my life, but whenever something I lose something, a girl told me one time, dropped a lighter, walked into the woods.
Yeah, we were young, we're sitting and smoking, and in the snow.
And she said, I was looking all over this place for it.
She said, don't worry, it'll turn up.
I'm like, it'll turn up.
How's it going to turn up?
I got home that night, and the lighter was in my sock drawer.
It's something that's always going on all my life.
And I say that all the time.
Like, I'll be frightened and I'll be looking for something, getting upset.
And I'll stop breathe to say it'll turn up.
And a lot of things, like the reality, like you create our reality, I believe in all that stuff.
The guest, I've really been looking her up, so I'm really going to be checking her out on YouTube.
Yeah, so it seems that to entangle something like diamonds, which is what's happening now as quantum computers are being built, this is actually going on.
And so they're very tiny diamonds.
And usually there needs to initially be some state of proximity so that there can be a shared kind of a crystalline structure or a shared, you know, just this sort of a group.
Well, to answer the first one about is reality shifting constantly, I would say it does appear to be so.
But it's usually not on that level that you're talking about, where you might have been homeless the day before and now you've got a wife and children.
Because as near as I can figure it, it has to do with our entanglement, with our connections, with our loved ones, with what we believe our reality to be.
So people that can get into a state of real detachment where, as Art was joking, their brains might be falling out.
And that could actually be true.
Because I know one woman, a friend of hers, had died, and she drank herself into a stupor for almost a year.
We sort of reach out and cover a lot of territory.
Jareen on Skype.
Hello.
unidentified
Hello, hello.
Thanks, Cynthia, for coming on.
Art, when I called on the 2 through trash, I was talking about an object that I misplaced in a room and took everything out of the room and then there was nothing there and was complaining, hey, where is it, where is it?
Went back in the room and boom, there the object is.
This is, to me, making some sense now of the reality shifting.
I'm curious, she's talking about hearing something at the door and family coming up and some kind of emotional attachment.
Is that a necessary thing or is something perhaps just jokingly doing things of playful things where things are shifting around us and it's nothing like a tragic thing?
If you don't get through first time around, give it a try next time.
And for those who think that I'm dancing on my guests, not just stepping on them, it's a function of Skype.
Sometimes with Skype, we get, of course, the very, very good audio.
But if it's more of a simplex setup, it's very, very hard for the other person to hear that you're even saying anything.
Just for the record.
And this is a very, very interesting comment from Gilletta, who says, my husband and I have time slips all the time where what is experienced, heard, recalled, and so forth is completely different from the other's experience, even in the same car.
Like being in two different realities in the same space.
I did co-author a paper on this called When Worlds Collide and presented it with an anthropologist at a conference.
It's such a common phenomenon, and I'm glad that someone called in with that one because I think unless people hear about it, they might not realize what's going on.
And it's a very special relationship where two people trust each other well enough to believe the other person instead of just assuming that they're wrong and they're obviously totally screwed up or something.
I've tried to call and had problems trying to get through, but I just wanted to say big shout out to the Art Bell Time Travelers group on Facebook, all my friends over there.
I wanted to say hello and tell Cynthia that I love everything she talks about.
Everything is so interesting, and we're very much enjoying her tonight.
And we would like to hear more topics like this, if at all possible.
There's a lot we could talk about having to do with time, who has loops of time.
And we just touched on some of it.
And I think once people start recognizing that these kind of things can happen, like a sequence of events can repeat, very much like if people remember the movie The Matrix, where do you remember that scene where Neo says, well, he sees a cat walk by a doorway, and then he sees the cat walk by again.
I wanted to ask Cynthia, something happened to me years ago where I had gone for a mammogram and they found something really suspicious.
So I had to go back days later to the same doctor, the radiologist, was going to do a sonogram.
And I remember for that, when I was sitting there waiting for that first procedure, I had met several women that had breast cancer in there.
I felt really a lot of compassion for them.
And I then came back like a week later, and I had been taking healing classes in Hawaii.
And when I went back a week later to have the sonogram, the same doctor was working on me.
She passed over my breast, and she found the conspicuous lump.
She made a map of it, and then she started around the breast for a few more moments to see if there was anything else suspicious.
And the guy, I had been given guides during the healing classes that I had taken, and I could hear a guide saying, she found it.
And I was like, and then she passed around the breast, and a moment later she came back, and she kept going over that area back and forth for several minutes and getting really frustrated.
And then I heard the guide say, it's gone.
And I was like, oh, my God, I don't know what's going on.
So I heard the doctor tell me, she said, do you know what's happening?
And what's just happened?
And I said, no, I really don't.
I was starting to sweat just profusely because I was so nervous.
And she said, it's gone.
And she said, it was here a moment ago.
I mapped it and it was on your mammogram and it's totally gone now.
She said, do you know what just happened?
And I was like, no, ma'am, I don't know.
And then she said, this has been happening for the last days.
This has been happening here over and over and over to women patients that have come in here.
And I remember having, the guides were like, if you do something wrong, you know, you can have it back.
I was like, no, I don't want it back.
And she said several women had had like spontaneous healing in there.
And they said that they had done that for them because I was concerned about them.
Yeah, thanks for sharing that story about this onogram.
It's wonderful.
And I had a friend, Susan, that had a broken leg.
She was camping and was jumping from boulder to boulder and slipped and fell and broke her leg at a terrible time because she was starting a new job.
But she had a similar experience where she went in to have x-rays done and they basically saw from one x-ray reading to another that her leg went from being broken to unbroken.
And they were looking to her, like, can you explain this?
And I was going to ask the doctor, has she had any cases of pushed reality shifts where people have been pushed in their reality for maybe mind control?
And maybe this would also explain the doppelganger effect with the quantum jumps where you see two people at the same time in different places.
Well, it's not exactly a quantum jump from what you've been talking about, Doctor, to, as the caller put it, a push, in effect, somebody making something happen.
Before I get to my main point, I just experienced a time stream thing while on hold.
It might have just been a technical glitch, but prior to the last break, I heard the caller ask his question, and then you went to break, and then all of a sudden, I heard the call again from the very start.
There was a caller asking if this could be some sort of playful tampering going on by, I don't know, some great overseeing alien or something or somebody toying with the Matrix.
At times, it seems playful, almost like a poltergeist is just toying around with us.
And I just feel that a lot of people are smart, but it's a whole different thing to use that intelligence and to stay active with it and pay attention.