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Oct. 15, 2015 - Art Bell

02:20:09

Art Bell MITD - Cynthia Larson Reality Shifting

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	♪♪♪ From the high desert in the great American Southwest,
	I bid you good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you are in the world's time zones,
	each and every one of them covered like a blanket.
	By midnight in the desert.
	My name is Art Bell.
	And I've got so much breaking news tonight that I have no idea where to start.
	Rules of the show.
	Try to keep it normal.
	Rules of the show.
	No bad language.
	Because it is unnecessary.
	And just, you know, we've got a lot of young listeners, too.
	So, keep it in mind.
	Only one call per show.
	That's an absolute rule.
	That I try to enforce.
	And you better follow.
	Alright, down to the breaking news.
	First item, I'm just going to throw this out there.
	No confirmation of any kind right now, but I do have a photograph for you.
	Have the Phoenix Lights returned.
	Now this is a photograph that was taken out somebody's car window.
	Not very many hours ago, and it sure as hell looks like the Phoenix Lights.
	So, I don't know what to say.
	We have a lot of... I could give something away.
	We're going to be in the Phoenix market big time real soon.
	But I can't give that away right now.
	So if you're listening in Phoenix on the net, know that you've got a big affiliate coming.
	But moreover, if you're listening and you really have seen these lights, go to Artbell.com.
	Scroll down a little bit below my guest info, and you're going to see there's a very clear shot out of car.
	And boy, oh boy, it looks like Phoenix lights.
	So, nothing beyond that.
	This could be a one-time forget-it deal.
	What I'm going to talk about now is not a one-time forget-it deal.
	And I have breaking news next hour, too, that is creepy.
	But this hour, returning to what we broke last night on this program.
	Uh, today, um, I had a million emails in my box saying, oh, another hoax, you got caught in a hoax.
	No, I didn't.
	And no, it's not.
	What I said last night is exactly what I say today.
	Only, today, it's in places like, well, the Washington Post.
	I heard ABC TV did a story on it tonight.
	Headline being, the strange star that has serious scientists talking about an alien megastructure.
	That's the headline in the Washington Post, folks.
	Let me read a little bit from this article.
	It was kind of unbelievable that it was real data, said Yale University astronomer Tapitha Bhojan.
	We were scratching our heads for any idea that came up There was always something that would argue against it.
	She was talking to the new scientist about KIC 8462852, a distant star with a very unusual flickering habit.
	Interesting way to put it.
	Something was making the star dim drastically every few years and she wasn't sure what.
	I'd like to add that at times as much as 22% dimming.
	Voyageon wrote up a paper on possible explanation for the star's bizarre behavior, and it was published recently in monthly notices of the Royal Astronomical Society.
	But she also sent her data to fellow astronomer Jason Wright.
	He's at Penn State, a researcher who helped develop a protocol for seeking signs of unearthly civilization, wondering what he'd make of it.
	Well, to Wright, when he got it, It looked like a kind of star that he and his colleagues had been waiting for.
	If none of the ordinary reasons for the star's flux quite seemed to fit, perhaps an extraordinary one was in order.
	Aliens.
	Or to be more specific, something built by aliens.
	A swarm of megastructures.
	That's in quotes, as he told the Atlantic, likely outfitted with solar panels to collect energy from the star.
	When she showed me the data, I was fascinated about how crazy it looked.
	Wright said, aliens should always be the very last hypothesis you consider, but this looked like something you would expect from an alien civilization, or an alien civilization to build.
	Skipping down, but finding from the program, the finding from the program was unlike anything else scientists had ever seen.
	Volunteers marked it out as unusual in 2011, right after the program began, actually, a star whose light curve seemed to dip tremendously at irregular intervals.
	At one point, about 800 days into the survey, the star's brightness dropped by an astounding 15 percent.
	And later that day, at about 1500, it dropped by a shocking 22%.
	Whatever was causing the dips, it could not have been a planet.
	Even something the size of Jupiter, the biggest in our solar system, would only dim this star by 1% as it transited across, Slate reported.
	The Kepler telescope was badly damaged in 2013, so the researchers don't have data from recent dips, if there have been any.
	Skipping down again, scientists At least the ones who like to theorize about these things have long said that an advanced alien civilization would be marked by its ability to harness the energy from its sun, rather a scrapping over its planet's resources like us puny earthlings.
	They envision something like a Dyson Sphere.
	What is a Dyson Sphere?
	A hypothetical megastructure first proposed by physicist Freeman Dyson that would orbit or even encompass a star, capturing its power and putting it to use, reminding you... Well, obviously a Dyson sphere has never been spotted in real life.
	They're all over science fiction, but if one were to exist, it wouldn't look like a metal ball around the sun.
	It'd probably be A compromised chain of smaller satellites or space habitats, something that would block its star's light as weirdly and irregularly as this star's light has been blocked.
	That's why researchers who are interested in finding alien life are very excited about the finding.
	So that gives you a little clue.
	That's from the Washington Post today.
	And now it's going viral.
	Jim Elvidge holds a master's degree in electrical engineering from Cornell University.
	He's applied his training in the high-tech world as a leader in technology.
	He also holds four patents in digital signal processing, has written articles for publications as diverse as Monitoring Times and the IEEE transactions on geoscience.
	For many years, Eldridge has kept pace with the latest research, theories, and discoveries in the varied fields of subatomic physics, cosmology, artificial intelligence, and nanotechnology.
	So, at another date, we will have much to talk about with Jim.
	This unique knowledge base has provided the foundation for his first book, The Universe Solved.
	But not tonight.
	Tonight, we are going to concentrate on one thing, and one thing only, But we're going to have you back, Jim, to discuss all the rest of these things.
	I really want to talk about AI and nanotechnology.
	Would you be up for that at a future date?
	Absolutely.
	I think we have something on the schedule already.
	And I should just say, R2, it's an honor to be on your show.
	And I'm really looking forward to this hour.
	OK.
	All right.
	In that case, I want you to stay right where you are.
	And we're going to take our normal quick break.
	And we're going to come back and we're going to talk about what's out there, I guess.
	I'm Art Bell and this is Midnight in the Desert.
	The devil went down to Georgia, he was looking for a soul to steal.
	He was in a bind because he was way behind and he was willing to make a deal.
	When he came across this young man sewing on a fiddle and playing it hot, and the devil jumped up on him.
	Take a walk on the wild side of midnight.
	From the Kingdom of Nigh, this is Midnight in the Desert with Art Bell.
	Please call the show at 1-952-225-5278.
	nine point two two two five fifty two seventy eight that's one nine point two
	call florida
	here comes general manager introduced to you a moment ago and uh... so jim you i'm
	sure you have time to at least absorbed the washington post article and whatever
	else you could scrounge up
	This story began as nothing but breaking news here last night and then went, it seems like it's now viral.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	I noticed that yesterday, Art, I sent the article to a number of my friends and, you know, kind of wanted to investigate a little bit more, but what a lot of the media outlets seem to be doing is kind of repeating, regurgitating a lot of the same information, so it's hard to kind of dig through and find some new ideas here, but you definitely can do that if you dig enough.
	Well, there's probably not a whole lot new right now.
	I guess the telescope's damaged, right?
	So, we can't get another good look at the moment.
	Now, obviously, SETI can, and by the way, is swinging the Allen group of telescopes toward that exact direction right now.
	So, they're listening, but this thing is, what, 15 light years away from us, right?
	So 1500 light years away from us, right?
	Right.
	So a radio signal would take roughly 1500 light years to get here.
	Right.
	Yeah, my guess is that they're not going to find something, but of course, it's always possible there could be another wow signal associated with this, and if there is, that's incredibly significant.
	If there is, we'd be having a very different conversation, but even the one we're going to have, In my view, and you and I are going to differ on a few things, perhaps, is going to be an interesting one no matter what.
	Now, these light dips, what explains these light dips?
	Okay, so I'm sure you probably talked about this a little bit last night, too, if you introduced this last night, but for new listeners, if you could imagine, if you're looking at the Sun, but from a position fixed relative to the Sun behind, say, Jupiter.
	Every time Jupiter moved in front of you, it would block out some of the Sun's luminosity, and the total amount of light that you would be receiving would be dropping down.
	That's essentially the way the Kepler Space Telescope works.
	It points at certain stars, certain distant stars, and it looks for these small dips in light, in the intensity of the light that it's receiving from those stars, It has ways to kind of, you know, check the data and make sure that this isn't something that's an aberration.
	But that little dip is usually caused by a planet that transits, as the word is used, transits in front of that star and blocks out some of the light.
	And they've found, so far, over a thousand exoplanets is what they call them.
	In 440 star systems, they've got a bunch of unconfirmed ones that they're still trying to test.
	And the nearest one's about 12 light years away.
	In other words, this is the process they're using to locate these perhaps Earth-like planets.
	Exactly.
	And the interesting thing is when they first started doing this, all you saw were these huge planets.
	You know, they would find something that was, you know, smaller and smaller perturbations in the light, which then reflect a smaller planet.
	And they've gotten down to the point where now they've seen Earth-sized planets, rocky planet types, which is even more interesting.
	Yeah, they named one Earth 2 not very long ago.
	Exactly, yeah.
	Okay, so, using this method, and it was being used by Kepler, is that correct?
	Yes.
	Using this method, they suddenly began seeing something that did not look like a planet blocking out the light.
	And why would it be different, Jim, than a planet blocking out the light, what they saw?
	Because it really has to do with the size of the planet.
	We're so far away from these stars that it's not like if you were right up against Jupiter, it would block out all of the Sun.
	But since we're so far away from the stars, the actual size of the planet relative to the size of the Sun is reflected in this light.
	So if something is going to block out You know, a major portion of the light of that star, it has to be very large in comparison to the size of the star.
	So you'd use the ratio of, you know, if you remember the area of a circle is relative to the square of the radius of that circle.
	So, you know, something like Jupiter is about It's about a tenth the size of the Sun.
	So from a distance, Jupiter would block out 1% of the Sun's light as it crosses, as it transits the Sun.
	But this thing is blocking 15%.
	So 15% means... Actually, it's 22% at one point.
	Yeah, 22% at one point.
	And the star is, by the way, about 1.5 times the size of the Sun.
	So it's roughly the size of our Sun, which means that this thing that's blocking it has to be way, way larger than Jupiter.
	In fact, it has to be close to half or 40% the size of the star itself.
	If they're interpreting this correctly.
	Okay, but there's another gotcha here, and it is A planet going across, well, first of all, would be predictable, eventually.
	And second of all, its passage would be very easy for Kepler or the scientists watching it to note.
	What they've noticed here, and what makes it so different, if I'm understanding this correctly, is that it's intermittent.
	In other words, small object, medium object, giant object, medium object, small object.
	In other words, the light is ...is being dimmed in a staggered, weird, not repeated fashion.
	Correct, yeah.
	And one of the things to mention, too, is that an object of the size we talked about wouldn't even be a planet.
	It would have enough gravity to create its own fusion, and it would be a brown dwarf or a small star, you know, and then we would see light from it, which we don't.
	So, it's something dark.
	And, yeah, so...
	If you were looking, all the information we're going to get out of this is from these two kind of signal events, and they were separated by a couple of years.
	The first one happened 800 days after they started recording, so a little more than two years, and then the second one happened a couple years after that.
	Would it be fair to call this the equivalent of the big SETI WOW signal?
	Oh, I think so.
	Yeah, this would be the Kepler wow signal.
	Yeah, there you go.
	Absolutely.
	The Kepler wow signal.
	Sure.
	All right, so there have been various theories, and I know that you don't agree with this one, but the Dyson Sphere is one from science fiction.
	In other words, an alien race somehow building something that would harness the power ...of a Sun, which seems like a really good idea on the face of it.
	If you need a lot of power, it's a fusion reactor going all the time.
	If you could harness it, you would have one whale of a lot of power.
	But only a race that we would think of as, or Dr. Michio Kaku would think of as Type 3, would be harnessing the power of a star.
	And this is where you and I differ, because I think you don't imagine a Dyson Sphere, right?
	No, I don't really.
	I had actually blogged about this a couple of years ago, and I'm certainly open to the possibility that it could be, but the reason I don't think that is because the concept was developed back in the early 60s.
	Freeman Dyson came up with this idea, which was around the same time that Kardashev came up with his Level 1, 2, and 3 type civilizations.
	Right.
	If we put ourselves back in that time frame, we were in, you know, nuclear Armageddon fear, Cold War with Russia, the world domination was on everybody's mind.
	By the way, a lot of that fear is coming back these days.
	Oh, it is.
	Definitely in a different way.
	But I think the idea of harnessing lots of energy and harnessing all the energy of a planet Isn't necessarily something we want to do anymore.
	We're maybe facing like a sixth extinction because we're trying to do that.
	That's not to say that there could be some other civilization that's progressed technologically in a completely different way than we have.
	Wait a minute.
	I'm sorry.
	Back up to what you just said.
	You said we are facing the possibility of an extinction because of what?
	Well, because of global warming.
	Yes, yes.
	What we've done to the oceans, maybe man-made, maybe not, but one way or another, so many species and subspecies have gone extinct that people are talking about this as this time period as the beginning of another great extinction.
	Okay, and I agree 100% with you.
	Everything you just said, but I thought it related somehow to the concept of a Dyson sphere.
	No, the point I was just trying to make here is that, you know, I think that The idea of harnessing all energy is similar to the idea of harnessing all the resources of the world, and that mentality may be what has led to some of the problems that we're having.
	Oh, I see.
	Harnessing all the energy of the sun, you know, I would ask the question, what's the purpose of that?
	Certainly not to power laptops, right?
	But, you know, power a death ray?
	Well, this is where the two of us, before the show clashed a little bit, and I said, And I'll say it now, how can we know the needs or the motives or the ideas of somebody that many light years away who probably wouldn't have, you know, we might be as ants to them.
	They might be so different.
	Yeah, and I agree with you there.
	We can't place ourselves in that uh... in that mindset and for the same reason i i think it's
	kind of odd that you know said he is looking for radio waves
	uh... the civilizations that they exist may not be using radio waves they may be communicating via
	their mind or or via i don't know what else uh... something completely different
	so but we only know what we know and it's kind of hard for us
	to think out of the box and and
	to think in a completely different way than Yeah, that's right.
	You've got to get way out of the box.
	And as I mentioned to you, I talked to Seth, and they're going to be looking, but you know, in recent years, Jim, people have been sort of rapping on SETI's door pretty hard and saying, why are you looking for radio?
	You should be looking at light.
	Yeah, I think there's a lot of things that they could be looking at, and maybe not SETI, but some other organization, like spectral signatures of biological molecules or something like that would be kind of interesting.
	I think the technology is just not sensitive enough for that yet, but those might be better ways to detect life elsewhere than radio waves.
	Well, just traveling along with this for a moment, if What they suggest could be, or they conjecture could be, that these are actually alien megastructures of some sort, whether it be a Dyson sphere, or Trump times five million.
	You know, Trump Tower times five million.
	It's something big, and if it's built by intelligent beings, then, well, What then, Jim?
	Here's where I'll come to maybe a second argument.
	Sure.
	Looking at the chart, they've really only seen two instances.
	There was a cluster of dips in luminosity in the most recent one, but the first one was the single dip down to 15%.
	Right.
	So it's kind of two events.
	And those two events, they're not periodic.
	If you went back the number of days between those two and turned the clock back that number of days before, we didn't see an event.
	And it was just before that that they actually started recording this.
	So what that means is that it's probably not something that's orbiting That the drop in luminosity didn't come from the same thing that was orbiting.
	So if it was a Dyson sphere and it was maybe, you know, an array of collectors or something like that, the second one was probably not the same as the first one.
	Maybe it was something different.
	The other thing, looking at the second signal, it looks really messy.
	It drops by 22% and then there's a few days later there's another drop by 5% and then a few days later there's a drop by 10% and that doesn't smack of something artificial and clean and neat.
	It smacks of something like, you know, the second Death Star that they created in Star Wars that was all half built.
	It's something that's got holes in it.
	So, it doesn't look like a nice, clean Dyson sphere that would be revolving around the star, unless it's got, you know, some holes in it that just happen to be seen the second time around.
	Okay, let me ask you this.
	What is it that you think made the researcher at Penn State look at this and go, and actually utter the word, megastructures?
	Uh, what would it be that would cause him to do that?
	I mean, he had to think about his career and his life and a lot of things before he uttered a word like that that would begin to set off these headlines, right?
	Absolutely.
	And I think it was definitely excitement that got him to say that.
	And there's nothing wrong with what he said.
	It may be the first thing that makes logical sense when you rule out some of the other ideas, like large planets.
	But he did retract later on.
	He said, I don't remember the words exactly, but he said, we should approach it skeptically.
	It's very, very remote that it's alien life structures.
	Yes, I do agree.
	He's being cautious, and he... them all ought to be.
	But if this is alien, and it does represent life, I doubt we're going to get a radio signal.
	I'm glad they're pointing the telescopes that way.
	But if it is alien, how far ahead of us would that put them, considering what we're seeing Was how many years ago, actually, when it happened?
	Right, 1,500 years ago.
	1,500 years ago.
	And it's a really good question.
	Again, we don't have much to go on in terms of projecting how fast a civilization would advance or how fast they would evolve.
	We only have ourselves as a data point.
	That's true.
	So if we use that, we would say, like, when would we hit Type 2?
	Maybe a thousand years out.
	All right.
	All right.
	Hold on.
	Hold on.
	We're at a break point here.
	Take a big, deep breath.
	And all of you think about it.
	That would have been 1,500 years ago that that blinking occurred.
	I wonder how far they've come in the last 1,500 years.
	So they're how far ahead of us?
	I can't count that high.
	Who's gonna tell you when?
	You get to do the things.
	Who's gonna tell you things?
	I can't count that high.
	you Midnight in the Desert doesn't scream calls.
	We trust you.
	But remember, the NSA... Well, you know.
	To call the show, please dial 1-952-225-5278.
	That's 1-952-CALL-ART.
	Actually, don't do it yet, please.
	We've got so much news to get out.
	And by the way, at the beginning of the next hour, I'm gonna send a chill right down your spine.
	It may be nothing, and when things may be...
	Nothing, I'll tell you so.
	But the Washington Post article and this story is, what I ought to say, certainly is something and worth talking about.
	Jim, just play along with me a little bit.
	It's going to be an interesting, you know, if this keeps blowing up, as it were, it's going to be interesting.
	In the sense that the Brookings Institution years ago did a study that basically said that people out there, the American people and others, would go bats away.
	Institutions would collapse and dogs and cats would get along and whatever, if we heard about aliens.
	This is so far away and so tentative that it's not going to bring that on, but it's already provoking an interesting reaction Jim, very interesting.
	I'm getting emails that are angry.
	There are people actually quite angry about this, Jim.
	Any thoughts on why that might be?
	What's their beef?
	What are they angry about?
	I think just the concept.
	It might be upsetting a religious view they might hold.
	It might be... I don't know.
	I really don't know.
	but you know brookings said there would be a very poor reaction
	and uh... that is interesting i mean i i think that uh...
	and i don't yes i would disagree with
	the idea that we might be uh...
	shielded from something significant that uh... so so i have to protect
	the collapse of an economy or you know a culture or something like that
	I could see that happening.
	I don't know that something 1,500 light years away is going to scare people that much, like you said.
	And that might be exactly why they might be willing to see something like this released and talked about.
	Because it is so far away that people would go, ah, no problem.
	Not going to affect us.
	They're not going to zip here in the next week or so.
	Well, now that brings up another topic.
	I don't think so either, Jim.
	However, if you're willing to play with the idea that an alien civilization has done what they're suggesting might be done out there, they might well have a way to cover the distance between there and here, well, somewhat in excess of the speed of light.
	Oh yeah, and actually, I'm with you there, Art, definitely.
	I've read a lot of things about bending of space and then having your rocket follow the bend of space so that you kind of cheat relativity and actually get from point A to point B faster than the speed of light would otherwise allow you to do.
	Other things, you know, remote entanglement, where you could actually, you know, communicate with something remotely, you know, if those particles were originally entangled.
	I mean, who knows what technologies are out there 50 years ahead of us.
	We can barely understand that, let alone thousands of years ahead, which, you know, a level 2 civilization obviously would be at least.
	Well, I'm old.
	I'm 70.
	So, I can remember The very, very early days of radio.
	I remember the first television in the house.
	And I'm still alive.
	So, a hell of a lot has happened.
	I am now holding in my hand an iPhone 6.
	And it has technology that was probably, I don't know, maybe a hundred times, a thousand times, or even greater than that, greater than what the astronauts had when we went to the moon.
	Yep, absolutely.
	So, given another 1,500 years?
	You couldn't even reasonably guess!
	No, I think you're right there.
	I think our horizon for coming up with reasonable projections into the future is barely 50 years.
	It's really hard for us to go beyond that.
	I mean, I think J. Storrs Hall had this great concept of a utility fog, these nanotech foglets that could You know, you could turn your living room into a kitchen at the flick of a switch.
	Right.
	And that was maybe 60, 70 years out.
	So, he was thinking pretty far out there.
	And that's a mind-blowing idea.
	And we're actually making progress toward that, believe it or not.
	But, yeah, it's pretty hard to think what things are going to be like 100 years out, let alone 1,000 or more.
	And in some of these civilizations, you know, if we think that, you know, the Earth or the universe is really 13.7 billion years old, you know, A thousand years is just tiny compared to that.
	So, if there are other intelligent life forms out there, they're probably way beyond a thousand years ahead of us, and most certainly know of our existence, and don't really care much about us, or we know about it.
	Well... Maybe we do.
	I mean, just take this particular situation again, These are megastructures, if they are megastructures, that are so gigantic that you would have to imagine, you know, a type 2, I think type 3 civilization to build them, if that's what they are.
	And if that's what they are, and they were that then, we're seeing the results of whatever it is they did 1,500 years Right.
	Makes them really, really, really ahead of us.
	Not just a little, but a mind-blowing amount.
	And, you know, so here's a question, Jim.
	If we met an alien group from something this far ahead Well, how do you imagine that would come out?
	I mean, we are still a war-like people.
	America is a war-like nation.
	A lot of people don't like to hear that, but we are.
	We're constantly at war, more or less.
	In fact, today I think it was said that we will remain in Afghanistan.
	You know, we have wars!
	So, that far ahead.
	I don't think it would be a good thing for a civilization that far ahead to encounter a civilization at our stage.
	What do you think?
	I don't think they'd be that interested.
	They would probably, you know, laugh at our warlike ways.
	And again, I'm projecting, you know, where we might evolve to.
	I actually believe that our humanity is evolving in a positive direction based on certain things.
	Really?
	I'd love to hear that.
	Well, one example is the murder rate.
	If you ever read the book Freakonomics, I think they talked about how the murder rate in Europe in the 1600s was maybe a hundred times what it is today.
	That's a good point.
	Did they look at Chicago?
	We treat animals.
	I remember back when I was young, the idea of euthanizing a pet or dropping them off the side of the road was not a big deal.
	Today we have so many vegetarians and animal rights activists.
	I think we've evolved our thinking about who's conscious and how they should be treated.
	Not far enough, Jim.
	Not far enough.
	I'm with you again.
	We're going to have fun on the show.
	I think if we were a little more advanced we would be considering animal rights.
	And I think we are starting to now.
	I have heard some Discussions about rights for chimpanzees, treating them like people, and things like this.
	And I totally agree with that, Art.
	And I think, my point is only that I believe we're making progress in that direction, not in the opposite direction.
	Well, there is that side of the story.
	The other side of the story is we've got guys dressed in black, lobbing off heads in the Middle East, fast as they can, spreading as fast as they can.
	We're not doing one hell of a lot about it, and it's really scary, and they're trying to get their hands on nuclear materials, and proliferation is sort of runaway.
	I did a show a few weeks ago now, a couple weeks ago at least, on nuclear war from somebody who knows, and if you get a chance, if you're in our archives, you might want to go back and listen to that, a scientist talking about what would be left So, you know, on the one hand, I'm with you.
	I think we are becoming better.
	But on the other hand, we're becoming worse.
	So, it's like everything else, the ying and the yang.
	It's a race.
	Do we get better or do we blow ourselves to smithereens?
	You're absolutely right.
	It's a race because the question is whether access to these things, and I read recently about access to DNA manipulation equipment is now frighteningly close to almost anybody.
	Access to those things, access to nukes and so forth, if that is outpacing our conscious evolution, then we're in
	trouble.
	The thing that I kind of look at, though, in a big picture way,
	is every generation we have something like this.
	In the 60s, there was nuclear fear.
	In the 70s, there was overpopulation fear.
	Back in the Industrial Revolution, we thought that that was going to destroy civilization.
	Somehow, it never quite does.
	We seem to push ourselves to the brink, and something comes along to save us.
	Save us, even us out.
	And I think that's an interesting effect.
	I'm not, you know, betting the farm on that that's going to continue, but it does seem to be that there is this evening out effect of society that happens over the years.
	Well, there are many scientists who believe, with respect to the environment, Jim, there's a tipping point.
	Right.
	And the big debate now seems to be whether we've already passed it or not.
	And one of the things that I don't think they consider, and again I hate to rely on our ingenuity, our potential ingenuity to solve these things, but They haven't necessarily considered ideas like, oh, I don't know, you probably read about this teenager that came up with a way to clean up the ocean.
	Or nanotechnology, where these little bots just go out there and clean up the mess.
	I so want to talk to you about that.
	We're going to do a whole show on that and other nanotechnological events that could happen.
	And like everything else, all these have a downside.
	There's the grey goo downside to nanotech.
	So the question is, how do you prevent that negative side from overshadowing the gain?
	Well, I like that you're an optimist, but here's what I would say.
	Let us imagine grey goo is actually possible.
	Is it, by the way?
	Theoretically, I think it is, sure.
	In the old world, Jim, the one you were talking about a little while ago, back in the 60s that I lived through, we managed not to destroy each other because of the fear of mutual destruction, right?
	Absolute suicide, virtual suicide.
	And that was a rational way for us to stay alive as a world.
	So now we're going to have a grey goo gap.
	Possibly.
	Yes, well, so imagine one of those guys in black that I talked about, who manages to get their hands on a little grey goo.
	Now, here's the thing.
	Their ideological center is Armageddon.
	They want to precipitate Armageddon.
	That's what they believe.
	So, does the mad scenario survive people like that?
	Or do we survive people like that who don't care if they live?
	Yeah, I guess the way I look at it is, you mentioned a bell curve before, and if you imagine on the right-hand side of the bell curve is the Mother Teresa's, and on the left-hand side of the bell curve is the ISIS, and you know, the large population is in the middle, and that bell curve continues to move to the right, and yet you still have that trailing tail on the left-hand side of evildoers.
	So, you know, the question is, Again, is technology going to be accessible to them at a more rapid race than they tail off as the bell curve moves to the right?
	I hope not.
	You know, if they get grey goo, then I hope we get blue goo that eats grey goo.
	Exactly.
	There's always an antidote to things.
	You know, when I was a kid, I had this idea.
	It was just a harebrained idea.
	Yeah, the idea was what if there was something that you could send out into the world like, you know, kind of a precursor to the idea of the nanobots.
	It would seek out all nuclear devices for however they could find them and dismantle them.
	You know, so what a great invention that would be.
	Kind of like a Star Trek Genesis only Mark, just for the nukes.
	Exactly.
	And I kind of think that that kind of thinking may outpace the thinking of developing something that is catastrophic.
	I really like you, Jim.
	You're a hell of an optimist.
	I'm afraid I'm not that optimistic.
	Anyway, back to this story for a moment.
	You must admit that this is one whale of a story.
	Yeah, actually, to be honest Art, I'm not sure what the plan is for resurrecting it.
	else, Jim. In other words, how long do you think Kepler will be down? When can we take
	another look? When can we know more?
	Yeah, actually, to be honest, Art, I'm not sure what the plan is for resurrecting it.
	There are a couple of possibilities that have been posited so far on this that are interesting
	There's one that I looked up myself that I haven't seen anybody talk about.
	There was a planet discovered earlier this year that was orbiting a star called J1407b.
	And it had super rings.
	They called it a super Saturn.
	And the rings were 200 times the size of Saturn.
	And they claimed that those rings blocked out 95% of the light from the Sun, from its star.
	So, that's an interesting possibility.
	Now, this couldn't be that because it's not periodic enough, or maybe it's wobbling or something, so the second time around it had a little bit different signature.
	I don't know.
	There's a possibility another one that Makes sense to me.
	It's some sort of debris field.
	And the question is, like, how would that be created?
	Well, they were asked about that, and they kind of ruled that one out.
	The debris field?
	And they also ruled out error at the time in Kepler.
	In other words, before they announced this, they ruled a lot of things out.
	They did, and they ruled out the debris field because of the lack of infrared radiation, but that is based on the assumption that it was created by a collision.
	Maybe there's another reason for a debris field.
	I can't think of one right now, but we have an asteroid belt.
	We have a very old solar system, but we have an asteroid belt.
	It's not opaque enough to block out much of the sun.
	But maybe there is this very unusual type of asteroid belt, debris field, that orbits between stars.
	It doesn't happen very often.
	And of the 145,000 stars that Kepler has tracked, they just happened to find one where there is this thing.
	I don't know.
	These are really tough questions.
	But I think the more they look at the data and maybe find other ways to confirm or deny
	some of these hypotheses, hopefully they'll come up with something that's more credible.
	Well, again, you have the Yale University astronomer, right, as well as Penn State saying, look, we looked at all this stuff, and what we're saying is alien megastructures.
	I just can't imagine how much they must have sat around thinking about whether it would be really advisable to say these words before they said them.
	No, I agree.
	And it would be great to get one of them on the show.
	Oh, trust me.
	I started on this yesterday.
	Um, and as soon as the news broke, of course, every media outlet from here to Andromeda was knocking on the door.
	So, um, no way, but I did get Jim.
	Good.
	Well, I hope I gave a little bit of a perspective here and some things to think about.
	And again, I don't rule out an artificial structure.
	It's just that second signal looks unartificial to me.
	It looks almost more like what you'd think when a cloud passes in front of the sun or something.
	And that's why I'm kind of gravitating toward the debris field.
	But I'll leave it to the... In the story, what do you think had them go for the Dyson Sphere?
	Why even mention something from the sci-fi realm?
	I think because of the depth of the dip in luminosity.
	A planet can exist and there's no known astronomical structure that's that big and that opaque that could cause that.
	So, what's left?
	Man-made.
	Everybody has experienced less sunlight.
	I think most of us have been through a sun eclipse, which is really weird.
	You know, the sun starts going away and going away and going away and the air
	starts to look thin.
	It's really, really weird.
	It is, it's very weird.
	One of the things I thought was interesting about this when I first saw it, I thought,
	okay, it's possible that there could be something that moved in front of the telescope
	but far closer to the telescope than the actual star was, and so it transited the star but it was much, much smaller.
	Well, maybe.
	Jim, we're out of time.
	We're out of time.
	It can only be one time, and the fact that it happened twice means that can't be the case.
	Right.
	Jim, thank you for being here.
	We'll do a whole show soon.
	Thank you very much.
	Take care, buddy.
	Take care.
	I'm Art Bell.
	By the way, look out next hour.
	All right.
	What we're going to do next is a little unorthodox.
	this is midnight in the desert with your host art bell to call art please dial 1952-225-5278
	that's 1952 call art.
	Welcome back everybody.
	Alright what we're going to do next is a little unorthodox.
	We've got Dr. Cynthia Larson I hope coming on if we can straighten out the skype connection
	in a moment.
	But first what a day huh?
	I would appreciate many of you looking at the photograph we've got up on the website right now, the one that talks about Phoenix, and give us your take on that, as well as hearing from anybody in Phoenix who has seen what appears to be in that person's... out that person's window.
	Anyway, on to this.
	How many of you, hold up your hands, have heard of numbers stations?
	Well, that's a fair amount of hands.
	Numbers stations are used by, well, spies.
	Typically, they appear on shortwave frequencies all around the shortwave band.
	You can hear them.
	and there'll be some lady saying, 61, 7, 18, 4, 30,
	be.
	32.
	And, you know, it goes on and on like that, droning in a sort of a boring voice.
	What those actually are, are codes to operatives in the field way out there somewhere, other side of the world.
	Yeah, it lives on from the Cold War days.
	Now, having said that, There is a frequency which is no secret.
	It is 11175 MHz.
	And on 11175 we have SAC.
	The acronym for the Strategic Air Command.
	The guys who carry the big bombs.
	Now, this is a well-known SAC frequency.
	uh... where planes communicate with base in each other and what have you and it's done in plain english what i'm about to play for you was recorded by a shortwave listener uh... and i i don't know who it is it's on reddit you can investigate this further They claim they recorded it on 11-175.
	If they did, then it's pretty chilling.
	This, uh, if, if it's that frequency, this would be coming from SAC to I don't know who.
	Now, the person that recorded it missed the very beginning, which in the very beginning just said, uh, to all stations.
	Alert all stations.
	And then, uh, this is going to seem strange to you.
	It's not numbers, but it's clearly a code transmitted on the SAC frequency.
	And, uh, at the end, it's going to be hard for you to hear.
	Um, I grabbed the wrong recording, but he says, collapse out.
	That's the call sign.
	Collapse.
	So listen very carefully.
	And also, one other thing for you to note as you're listening to this, You're going to hear a little tiny echo.
	And that echo is the signal going all the way around the world.
	That's what's producing the echo that you're going to hear in this recording.
	So, you're not going to make anything out of it.
	It's a code, but what's it doing on a SAC frequency?
	Here you go.
	Clap.
	Break.
	Apex.
	Sierra.
	X-ray.
	Delta.
	Five.
	K-Beck, Sierra, X-Ray, Delta, 5.
	Oscar, stand by.
	K-Beck, Sierra, X-Ray, Delta, 5.
	Oscar, stand by.
	Missed follows.
	K-Beck, Sierra, X-Ray, Delta, 5.
	Oscar, Foxtrot, DePaul.
	Uniform.
	Oscar.
	Alpha.
	Whiskey.
	Oscar.
	Hotel.
	Sierra.
	Kilo.
	Foxtrot.
	Jabba.
	K-Beck.
	Bravo.
	Alpha.
	X-Ray.
	Thorn.
	Wall.
	Buckeye.
	Five.
	Uniform.
	Bravo.
	Buckeye.
	Kilo.
	I'm going to take it.
	We're back. See you around.
	X-Ray.
	Delta.
	Five.
	Oscar.
	Foxtrot.
	Papaw.
	Uniform.
	Oscar.
	Alpha.
	Whiskey.
	Oscar.
	Hotel.
	Sierra.
	Kilo.
	Foxtrot.
	Seven.
	K-Bank.
	Bravo.
	Alpha.
	X-Ray.
	Four.
	Call.
	There you go.
	That, uh, that was it.
	And then he said, collapse out.
	And then you heard a couple touch tones designed to trip something.
	Uh, perhaps to, uh, turn the radio off, uh, on the other end.
	I, I have no way of knowing.
	But if in fact, and again I didn't record it, it was recorded by somebody on Reddit, but if in fact it really was as they advertised, 11-175, then that was a little chilling.
	Beyond that, I have no guesses for you about what you just heard.
	So, coming up in a moment, Dr. Cynthia Sue Larson has a degree in physics from UC Berkeley,
	an MBA degree, and a Doctor of Divinity.
	Dr. Larson is a best-selling author, researcher, and transformational speaker who helps people
	visualize and access new worlds of possibilities.
	She writes and teaches about the science of spirituality, how consciousness changes the physical world.
	She's presented papers at international conferences on science, spirituality, and consciousness.
	Results from Cynthia's How Do You Shift Reality?
	Surveys conducted in April of 2000 and June of 2013 document incidences of the most commonly experienced types of reality shifts.
	And her Reality Shifters website has compiled one of the most extensive collections of reality shift reports in the world.
	Her popular e-zine, also called Reality Shifters, is eagerly awaited each month by thousands of subscribers worldwide.
	So, coming up in a few moments, Dr. Cynthia Larson.
	Man, what a night.
	Was that weird or what?
	You'd have to have the book to know what it meant.
	I don't care where I go When I'm real.
	When I cry.
	You don't cry.
	Cause you know... Anybody could be that guy.
	Got it young and music high.
	Probably part of the Dark Matter Digital Network.
	This is Midnight in the Desert with your host, Art Bell.
	Now, here's Art.
	Here I am.
	Well, again, I make absolutely no claims about what that signal is, where it came from, or anything else, other than to tell you that it's on Reddit, and it may or may not be from 11.175, but if it is, that's weird.
	I'm a long-time listener to the exact frequency, and, uh, You don't hear that kind of thing.
	That's something more like from a numbers station plus.
	No idea what it means, but it kind of creeped me out a bit.
	All right, let us now go to Dr. Larson and say hello there.
	Hello.
	I hope you can hear me okay.
	I do.
	I hear you now fine.
	Dr. Larson, welcome to Midnight in the Desert.
	Thank you.
	It's a pleasure to be on the show, and what an amazing news day this has been.
	It's really difficult.
	It's kind of like they were waiting for me to get back and dump all this on me.
	Anyway, I want to give you a chance, before we break into what we're going to talk about as the main event, to react to the first story.
	What an amazing, amazing, amazing story.
	I wonder how it hit you.
	Well, the first impression I had was, like you said, amazement, just pretty much, because I do have some background working in space sciences, studying solar flare data.
	This was many years ago.
	And I know how boring most of that data can be.
	It usually is extremely boring.
	So, the fact that anything was discovered on this magnitude is Well, it's attention-grabbing.
	Yeah, it's just extraordinary.
	Yeah.
	At a loss for words.
	But then I did look at the paper and some of the research, because you can actually look that up and see why the researcher at Yale, and that would be Boyajian, she was basically coming to the conclusion in her paper that this looks like a breakup of an exocomet or a family of exocomets.
	Could be.
	Yeah, it could be and then I'd be disappointed because I feel like there's got to be something out there and I think it's pretty amazing to think that we might be able to see something like these Dyson structures.
	Yeah, well you know as I said to Jim Um, these scientists must have thought awfully hard before uttering the words megastructures.
	Um, my goodness, you would think of your career and your future and a lot of things before you'd say something like that, I would think.
	Well, there could be a lot of enthusiasm on the part of even scientists who do have feelings that maybe we are finally going to see some kind of evidence of other life than humans.
	Oh, yes.
	Well, it does beg a few questions.
	I mean, any race that could do that would be way, way, way ahead of us, and I'm not sure we want to meet them.
	Well, probably that is who we're going to meet first, because most likely they'll come to us or we'll be able to see signs of them.
	And it's probably not going to be us venturing out that far with our current technology.
	I'm sure that's right.
	The problem with it is, though, that we would be to them probably lesser than ants.
	In other words, if they stepped on us and or our planet by mistake, they might not even know it.
	on their way to wherever. Right.
	It reminds me of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and getting the earth blown away to make room for an interstellar
	space flight.
	Or they might be so advanced that they would be socially advanced as well
	and would greet us somehow warmly and say, hello ants, And if it's anything like what we see when we look at our, just our Earth environmental systems, we see a diversity of life forms that are out there.
	We sure do.
	I would expect there'd be a range of different extraterrestrial intelligences.
	Well, one would kind of imagine that they would be so far out of what we imagine.
	That we can't even, well, we can't even imagine.
	They would be so different, that far away and that in every way far away.
	Anyway, it's kind of fun to think about, or worrisome, depending on your point of view.
	What you research is really, really interesting, and this is how we're going to start it out.
	I'm not sure if I was the first one doctor, but I may have been the first one.
	This was back in the 80s, back in the 1980s.
	I actually went on the air, I don't know whether you know this is true or not, you can go back, people can go back and find the show, either the late 80s or early 90s, and somebody called me on the phone, that's what you do on a talk show, and they said, something about Nelson Mandela, and I said, well, Nelson Mandela died, didn't he?
	I actually said that on the air.
	And I had never heard anything of a so-called Nelson Mandela effect or Mandela effect before.
	Maybe it was before that, but it's the first I had ever heard of it.
	Actually, when I said it on the air, that doesn't mean I was the first to say it.
	I'm not claiming that.
	I'm just claiming that's the first I ever heard of it.
	I thought Nelson Mandela had died.
	Right.
	And you are actually researching something you call the Mandela Effect.
	Am I right?
	Right, well I've been calling it the Alive Again Phenomenon before the term Mandela Effect became quite popularized and because like you I've been noticing sometimes people or in my case a cat had passed away and then the cat was alive again.
	So, it could be a celebrity, in the case of Nelson Mandela.
	What's really interesting about the Nelson Mandela situation is that we, this year, 2015, have reached kind of a tipping point where there are something like maybe about 30% of the people asked, do you remember Nelson Mandela passed away when he was still incarcerated?
	About 30% of the people believe that they do remember that.
	The best way to ask these questions, of course, is to ask when did a person die without tilting it one way or the other.
	Right, but no, you're correct.
	Now, you said 30%.
	What could possibly affect everybody in such a mass, seemingly time-shifting or twisting, I don't even know how to put it, way?
	What are we talking about here?
	Well, the actual figure that I got in my survey conducted in 2013 was 27%.
	So I'm saying, you know, it's pretty, that's pretty high.
	It's more than a quarter.
	And so what seems to be going on, and this is the reason I've been taking a look at it for so long, is that we're witnessing alternate histories.
	And that really gets interesting because it seems like time is not what we think it is.
	Facts may not be what we think they are.
	And if someone can be dead and then die a second time or be alive again, you know, lots of people are reporting this phenomenon.
	And it's not just Nelson Mandela.
	Interestingly, just today, I heard about someone wrote me an email and mentioned that they thought Freeman Dyson had passed away, you know, about six, seven years ago.
	And actually, I sort of remembered that, too.
	As of earlier today, he was still alive, so hopefully he's alive to see that his name is being mentioned in conjunction with this amazing find with this KIC 8462852 situation.
	So, what we're noticing is that lots of things can change, and we seem to take it in stride when people have a spontaneous remission of disease.
	Well, we might be happy, of course, if it's our loved one that no longer has cancer and it's inexplicably cleared up.
	And this did happen to my grandmother, so I've had a personal case in my family of witnessing this.
	And I've known other people as well that have had these amazing spontaneous remissions without any kind of medical intervention.
	And so that's another case of alternate history.
	And it's the kind of thing that is studied at places like... Well, wait a minute, wait a minute.
	Hold on a sec.
	You said if somebody has a spontaneous remission, it is like an alternate history.
	How so?
	I understand the Mandela thing effect and what you're talking about.
	I don't understand how it relates to a spontaneous remission.
	Okay, well, this is where it gets interesting.
	It has to do with the way, like I said, facts and events can actually be different.
	And so it starts getting important to keep a logbook or a ledger that includes three points in time, like X, Y, Z. So when you notice, like you did in the 1980s, that would be point Y, the bifurcation point.
	And that would be, we'd mark it down, Art Bell in the late 1980s, so whatever date that was, remembered that Nelson Mandela had died at point X, which was, I don't know what date you remember.
	And then the Z point would be the date that you record it, so that's why three times matter.
	And then later, you can record another event.
	For example, Nelson Mandela might pass away again, as he did for some of us recently.
	And that seems unusual, because now, you know, something, you don't expect someone to die twice.
	So, it's, you can again notice at this point in time, I heard that he had died at point X, and I'm hearing it here on day Y and recording it on day Z.
	All right, somebody will go back.
	But the similarity, you're asking about, how is this similar to spontaneous remission?
	Yes, I am.
	But somebody will go back, please, and find what show that was and what year.
	I'd love to know.
	Somebody will tell me.
	Go ahead.
	Okay, so a spontaneous remission would be an example, which is similar to death in a sense.
	We'll take the case of my grandmother.
	She was diagnosed with inoperable liver cancer when they were doing some exploratory surgery to check out adhesions in her intestinal area.
	Right.
	So what they found out, and everything matched, they matched the tissue sample with the CAT scans, with the blood tests, and it all came back saying she would be dead of liver cancer Pretty much within six months' time.
	Right.
	And she was quite elderly, so she chose to have no chemotherapy, no surgery.
	But she was very spiritual, so lots of people prayed for her.
	And then the next thing that happened is when she went in for one of the routine checkups, they were checking the blood constantly.
	They didn't see the usual signs and evidence of cancer in the system, so they took another set of CAT scans.
	And that's when the doctors were stunned to report you have no trace whatsoever of any kind of liver cancer.
	Wow.
	They have no way to explain it.
	That kind of a complete remission within just a couple months time.
	So what does the doctor say?
	I mean, he sees evidence of impending Mortality, and then just a short while later, no evidence whatsoever.
	Sadly, a good friend of mine got the same diagnosis and didn't last six weeks with liver cancer.
	But what, I mean, I would demand, wouldn't you, some kind of medical explanation for how that could possibly be?
	Well, actually, the doctor looked at my grandmother.
	She is such a spiritual woman, she was.
	And so she was smiling as he was just looking completely baffled.
	So he had no explanation to give her.
	But she knew because she was a woman of faith that obviously she was Lutheran and very firmly believed that God absolutely delivers this kind of miracle.
	So for her it was obvious.
	To me looking at it from the scientific standpoint, I don't see much difference between someone coming back to life And completely going into, I mean, completely clearing out all the cancer cells from their liver within just a couple of months.
	That is very fast.
	I mean, it's inexplicably fast.
	There's no mechanism to explain exactly what happened other than to say that some of the same kinds of quantum phenomena that we witness on the microscopic scale could absolutely be happening in our daily lives as well.
	I'd go farther.
	I'd say impossible, and yet I know these things They do happen.
	It's just impossible, though.
	We all know what cancer is.
	It doesn't spontaneously completely disappear, and yet it does.
	So, if you were to reach out for any sort of explanation that might make sense to anybody, what would it be?
	Well, this is what I'm proposing and it's just my, it's just what I have so far.
	It's, because I'm definitely looking to science and saying you've got some explaining to do here.
	Yeah, I'm explaining.
	I really am looking as much as I can to find out what's going on and thank goodness that we have scientists such as Dr. Yasunori Nomura at UC Berkeley and he and Rafael Busso have both been working with the Large Hadron Collider I know Yasunori, I interviewed him recently and he has basically an outlook that says that the many worlds of the multiverse is the same thing.
	As you know, the many worlds of quantum physics is the same thing as the multiverse.
	So, he's bringing the quantum to the macroscopic scale and saying that it could be that time all exists around us and then these bifurcations in time happen in kind of little pockets near us.
	Things can change.
	In fact, the interesting thing about Yasunori is, I swear, he didn't exist when I was writing my book, Quantum Jumps, or I definitely would have mentioned all of the amazing papers he's written.
	Okay.
	And that's another example, someone who doesn't seem to exist, and then suddenly they do.
	Suddenly it exists, alright.
	Do you actually believe or suspect that CERN, the Large Hadron Collider, Actually might be responsible for these shifts that we're talking about right now.
	Well, it certainly is bringing people's awareness to the possibility of many worlds, of many possible realities, and just getting their minds going that direction.
	But why the Collider?
	Why the Collider?
	Well, there is a lot of actually public awareness.
	I think that does make a difference, because what I've noticed in 2015 is that finally people are noticing things like the Berenstain Bears, that famous children's book, and they're noticing the spelling of it.
	Like, if you as listeners right now ask yourself, how do you spell, if you know this book with the bears, it's a family of bears, they're drawn as cartoons, how would you spell Berenstain Bears?
	S-T-I-N at the end, right?
	S-T, and then you said E-I-N?
	E-I-N, I think, yes.
	That's also what I remember, and that's currently not the case.
	If you look at any of the children's books, you'll see that they're all spelled S-T-A-I-N.
	Really?
	Really?
	Ha ha ha.
	Um, okay, are you suggesting the Large Collider is somehow directly responsible for these time shifts?
	Or are you suggesting people's awareness of the amazing things this collider is doing?
	You know, the fact that they're... What am I trying to say?
	Hold on please, we're at a break point.
	That human consciousness has been enlarged just by thinking about the collider Or is it the collider itself doing this?
	Holy mackerel, what a night!
	I'm Art Bell, and this is Midnight in the Desert.
	raging in the night little driving on a Saturday night
	come walk with me on a down, on a down day way
	can't hear me speak you're raging in the night
	to the night with midnight in the desert to be part of the show please call 1952
	call art that's 1952 225 52 78 my guest is dr. Cynthia Larson and the discussion
	is centered on reality shifting that's right reality shifting she talks about
	the Mandela effect and I certainly have been around that one myself
	It's not the only example that she cites, and I'm sure Orr will cite, but again, I want to come back so that I can understand.
	You make reference to CERN, the Large Hadron Collider, and the question is written as though it might be responsible for these reality shifts, and Is that what you believe?
	That actually the collisions they're doing are affecting the human psyche or whatever in some way directly?
	Right.
	What I'm suggesting is we finally reached a point where more than two-thirds of the physicists who are surveyed believe that you and I and every object no matter how large is actually in a superposition.
	So, like, you've heard of Schrodinger's cat that's alive and dead.
	Yes.
	You can have a live Nelson Mandela and a dead Nelson Mandela.
	Alright, you still haven't answered my question.
	You think the Large Hadron Collider and what it's doing is directly having this effect on humanity?
	I mean, that's just a straight-on question.
	Okay, only from the point of view that the collective conscious awareness of the possibility of a multiverse is having an effect.
	I believe that is what you might call a causative factor.
	Much more than, I don't think that actually what's happening inside the Large Hadron Collider is doing anything.
	So, it's not like you need to stop that and then everything would stop.
	Okay, alright.
	Because if it was just the physical action of the collider, I believe we'd still be just like before the collider was built.
	You were noticing because we didn't have a collider when you were on the air.
	I noticed that Nelson Mandela had already died.
	One more thing to remind me of my age.
	Yes, that's right.
	We didn't have it.
	We can't blame the Collider for all of this.
	I know some people get spooked, they get scared.
	Dead people coming alive again, what's the difference between that and a zombie?
	How do we know if they're the real person?
	Do we have evil twins?
	These kind of things.
	Well, these are head scratchers, to be sure.
	The Mandela Effect, the whole thing is a head scratcher.
	And you believe that Do you believe that large chunks of history, Doctor, are actually shifted and remembered in a different way?
	You know what they say about war is right, the victors get to write the history.
	Right.
	Well, that's what we're observing, certainly.
	That's what I'm observing when I conduct surveys.
	That's what I'm witnessing that people that respond to the surveys are observing.
	We mentioned the Berenstain Bears example.
	Yes.
	There are lots of other examples like that, from lines in movies, such as in Star Wars, when Darth Vader says, you know, that famous line saying that something, he says something, and he says, I am your father.
	And a lot of people remember that what he says is, Luke, I am your father.
	But now, if you watch the movie, you'll see he actually says, no, I am your father.
	It's little things like that that just seem like, well, who cares?
	It's a small blip.
	Berenstain, Berenstain, what's the difference?
	OK, well, right.
	But if we project this, could it be that we remember a lot of historical things Big ones, Doctor, inaccurately.
	That is what I am suggesting exactly.
	And that's where it ties back into spontaneous remission from disease.
	I do see an absolute tie-in right there.
	And it comes from looking at reality from a quantum point of view.
	And that's where I go to Dr. Yasunori Nomura at UC Berkeley.
	Because when I was talking with him in an interview, he really clarified it for me,
	explaining that if you look at time as, you know, the universe is really having no beginning
	and no ending, which is very much what indigenous people have said, then what you're looking
	at is we live in a small branch of a complete quantum state.
	And so we know what's going on in our immediate vicinity, but everything else that we're not
	looking at is a little fuzzy.
	So it might be changing.
	Yes.
	And this is exactly what has been observed by researchers who conducted an experiment after the space shuttle explosion.
	And they were at a university asking their students in the psychology class to write down what they were doing, how they found out, where they were, when they heard the news.
	This is called a flashbulb memory.
	And then this is all in their own handwriting.
	And then about a year later, they were asked the same questions again.
	And this time, actually I think maybe, you know, it may have been more than a year.
	Anyway, some period of time had passed.
	The students again wrote down in their own handwriting where they were, how they found out, all this stuff.
	And then they were given side-by-side comparison with their original response.
	And in several cases, people said, this is my handwriting, but that is not what happened.
	Yikes!
	I guess, if you wanted to, you could attribute this to... I don't know.
	What would a skeptic say to you, Doctor?
	Well, some say that this can't be happening.
	It just doesn't sound like... They can't... What's happening is they're keeping things within that classical physics viewpoint.
	And from there you want to be able to measure everything.
	You need to be able to see that things do stay the same.
	You can't have facts changing on you.
	You've got to be able to observe a system.
	And after you've observed it, then you've taken the measurement.
	And only the observer can clearly see what happens.
	And they're certainly not affecting anything.
	Um...
	But we're now finding out, thanks to this push to develop quantum computers, that observers definitely are affecting things, that there are entanglements between components of any system, a quantum system, and there's that superposition of states.
	And in the field of quantum biology, we're finding that this is actually mutating our DNA.
	You know, we're having quantum superposition of states within our DNA that's leading to jumps in the development of new features in our species.
	Oh, yeah.
	Doctor, you sound like an exceptionally bright person to me, so let me run this by you.
	The one thing that I've been trying to wrap my head around now for a long time is quantum entanglement.
	I guess it cannot be explained, so it's not like I'm expecting you to explain it to me, but if you can, feel free.
	But two particles that are close together flip and flop, to put it crudely, together.
	And then when separated, no matter how far we separate them, they continue to flip and flop together.
	You know, regardless of everything, including the speed of light, And that's just impossible.
	Absolutely impossible.
	And if you want to add a little to it, I recently read that some scientists have discovered something called quantum twisting.
	That's really new science.
	And that is going to suggest to some that quantum communication May become possible for us.
	So let's see where to begin.
	Would you like to try and explain quantum entanglement and how that works?
	Yes, so the idea with quantum entanglement is that it's basically, just like you said, you start by noticing that first of all you've got a couple of particles that are in that relationship and it's definitely a situation where they move in total synchronization regardless of what could be a rather large distance separating the two of them.
	In such a way that when you do something to take a measurement with one of the entangled particles, its pair simultaneously exhibits the opposite property.
	So if one is spin up, then the other one is spin down.
	And this is exactly what Albert Einstein was calling spooky action at a distance.
	Right, right.
	Exactly correct.
	I mean, can you actually explain it?
	No, this is one of those, it really requires that you start thinking in a quantum way, and when we look around our world, what I mean by that is we tend to assume that the only thing that matters is what we can measure, and nature is giving us a Zen koan, nature is handing us, when we look at this sort of thing, when we look at superposition, when we look at entanglement, we're being given an opportunity to get into that meditative state and recognize, what if this is the real reality?
	Instead of saying, oh wow, that's weird, that can't be real, coming at it from the other state of mind and saying, well, it's the sound of one hand clapping.
	So, these particles do this at, well, nobody can measure it.
	It's faster than the speed of light.
	It is instantaneous, nearly as a scientist can measure.
	And that, dear lady, doctor, dear doctor, is impossible.
	Just like the remission of the kind of cancer you talked about.
	It's just, with what we know, impossible.
	And yet it is.
	Right, well it seems impossible but this is exactly the technology that we'll be utilizing with these new quantum computers that NASA has just now and Google they've signed up for just kind of like that smartphones deal where every time the new smartphone comes out they get the new one they're going to get the new D-Wave computer every time the new one rolls off the assembly line and that's millions of dollars of computing technology so obviously Something is going on.
	And I know there are skeptics that say that's not a real quantum computer.
	There are people, Doctor.
	They're always skeptics.
	Oh yes, I meet them all the time.
	I just dealt with them yesterday.
	Doctor, there are some theoretical physicists who think that a quantum computer could possibly communicate with a parallel dimension.
	Right.
	You've heard that?
	Yes, well, this is that idea again that we've got these superpositions of states, and so what you're thinking of is one branch communicating with another.
	And this would be exactly the kind of things that we're talking about tonight, about the Mandela effect, about the Berenstain Bears.
	Let me suggest another possibility to you.
	And that is that we are living in the Matrix, and that the changes that we're seeing, that you're describing tonight, are actually being manipulated, and we are but puppets on strings.
	That's another option and this gets into artificial intelligence which I'm also, you mentioned that earlier with the previous guest and I would say as soon as you start talking about being in the matrix, that is the first thing that comes up because what you're really talking about is the possible absence of free will and the fact that maybe everything is preordained but that actually I would hope that we don't ever live in that kind of a nightmarish situation.
	I hope not too, but it's one alternative explanation for the kind of things you're talking about.
	It's a possible explanation, yes.
	And Max Tegmark and people like that have definitely put it out there.
	But then when you look at your own life and you ask yourself, does that feel?
	And here we get into the idea of consciousness and what is that, which is the so-called hard problem.
	Because we really don't know what it is that makes each of us aware of who we are and how we uniquely feel about things.
	Why, when you hear a certain song, you get a certain feeling about it that's different than what someone else gets.
	That's true.
	Doctor, since you are obviously fascinated with AI, a good question for you would be, what test would you use to determine that a real AI state had been reached?
	Wow, that's a really good question.
	It is, yes.
	And this is very interesting.
	Well, one of my favorite questions to ask people is for them to describe how good they think something can get.
	So, imagination is definitely a characteristic of our individual personalities and it can show, you know, where a person feels passionate about something, what troubles them.
	Yes.
	And so, that would be an interesting way to see if you get Anything that actually sounds informative.
	But what's happening with a lot of these people that are trying to pass these kind of AI tests is they're, you know, designing to the tests.
	So they would hear something like this and say, aha!
	Now we'll make it very clever so they can't tell that, you know, our AI system is actually, you know, going to be ready for that question.
	Conventional wisdom has always said self-awareness would be the biggie, the big one.
	You think so or you think it takes more than that?
	It takes more than that because remember we just said that we don't even know what consciousness
	is so that means we don't know what I am and we don't know what self-awareness is.
	We're actually just on the, I know it sounds crazy but we're just at the point right now
	of differentiating between what we pay attention to and what general background awareness is.
	It gets into the field of quantum cognition and the way our memory system actually has a very quantum nature to it, also.
	I've got cats.
	I've got cats.
	I think they're self-aware.
	Right.
	They are aware that they exist, I believe.
	Right.
	You know, I, of course, have no way of scientifically proving that, but I believe it.
	I can see it with dogs.
	And I love cats, too.
	But they have dog shaming websites.
	You can't shame a dog unless it has self-awareness.
	Well, you know, that's a good point.
	How can you shame a dog unless it is aware of its own misdeed?
	And the interesting thing is you can see it, the expression on these dogs' faces, that clearly something has gone terribly wrong.
	I know.
	Eventually, I feel, Doctor, it'll take us off to the side here, but I think, and I said to my last guest, that we're eventually going to have to talk about animal rights.
	I bet we're going to get there.
	It may not be, and probably will not be, in my lifetime, but it's coming.
	Yes.
	You agree?
	Well, we've taken some first steps.
	There was a gathering of scientists that agreed that a lot of animals definitely have consciousness.
	These are the steps that you have to go through to get to that place where they do have rights.
	In fact, they're showing that plants have consciousness as well.
	Well, that'll be a little further down the road when it gets to be believed.
	By the masses.
	Actually, it almost comes back to what we began talking about in the first place, and that is, what people believe and what is or isn't really true, and how much could really be false about everything we think is true.
	It's horrible to even try and wrap your head around this.
	It gets painful.
	Well, fortunately, thanks to that entanglement concept we mentioned earlier, this is actually a saving kind of grace, because thanks to entanglement and coherence, which are two aspects of quantum physics, then we know that something, you just see a little bit of it, like you see One part of your cat and then the rest of it's behind a chair.
	You know the rest of the cat is there.
	Yes, Doctor, but you're using the inexplicable to explain the unknown.
	Well, we're in a very exciting time right now.
	We are.
	Learning so much about these basic aspects of quantum physics and we have to understand it better than we ever have before in order to build the quantum information systems that are necessary for quantum computing.
	Have you studied, I take it, consciousness?
	Yes.
	It has been studied at many universities.
	Are you aware of the work being done that has little sampling computers around the world looking at consciousness, they think, that was going on at Princeton?
	Yes.
	Yes, I'm aware of that.
	It's a fantastic system, and it does show that there's an awareness in general before incidents occur, like 9-11 and so forth.
	Yes, but that's precognitive.
	I mean, the registration is definitely occurring, but it's occurring ahead of the actual events.
	How does that happen?
	And that is another aspect of quantum logic.
	And so what's going on?
	A lot of the things I'm talking about tonight have to do with this revolution that's occurring, that we're actually in the quantum age right now, thanks to the fact that the technology of the quantum computers are here.
	So it's just like the new age of fire has arrived.
	And in the quantum logic, you definitely have logic gates that go backward and forward through time.
	So there is some kind of like a handshake between a past event and a future event.
	And that's definitely absolutely part of the way that these logic gates function.
	And we don't tend to think much.
	We think we've got logic.
	We think we know what we're talking about when we say, that's not logical.
	But we're really only thinking in terms of classical computing logic, that Boolean symbolic logic developed back in 1847.
	So, well, sometimes when we think the handshake has taken place, I think the hand was missed.
	And that's what you're looking at with some of this.
	Stay right where you are, Doctor.
	We'll be back.
	My goodness!
	How you doing, folks?
	Can you get your head wrapped around some of this?
	Midnight in the Desert.
	I'm Mark Bell.
	So I'll take you down, I'll take you down now, there's no one
	ever gone before, if you want more, if you want more, oh, oh, let's go.
	To initiate a dialogue sequence with Art Bell, please coordinate your phalanges and call
	1952-225-5278. That's 1952. Call Art.
	All right. Dr. Larson, Dr. Cynthia Larson is my guest, and obviously we're going to have to have
	her back for another program because I can hear two more programs than what we've already done and
	only just begun.
	Let me give you the phone number information so we can get some of you in on this discussion.
	My public number is 952, that's area code 952-225-5278.
	So you would dial 1 in front of it, of course.
	952-225-5278.
	There are other ways.
	225-5278. So you would dial 1 in front of it, of course. 952-225-5278.
	There are other ways.
	You can join us on Skype, of course, if you have a smartphone of some sort or a tablet or whatever.
	Download Skype.
	It's free.
	And then when you do, go into Skype.
	Go to the add a contact place.
	Usually a little plus sign on the upper right hand side.
	Add us.
	It's that simple.
	Add us.
	It's in North America.
	Canada and America.
	MITD 51.
	M as in Mary.
	I as in India.
	T as in Tom.
	D as in Denmark. 51.
	Then we'll be in your contact list, and you can punch us up and call us for free anytime.
	Outside the USA and Canada, it's MITD55.
	That's MITD55.
	All that in mind, we'll get to the phones quite quickly here, I think.
	There are, however, a couple of other areas I want to go down.
	Your book is called Quantum Jumps, and I just love the sound of that.
	So Doctor, what does that mean?
	Quantum Jumps?
	Well, essentially it's pretty much the subject we're talking about tonight, that we can experience instantaneous transformation and it's not so much a magical thing.
	It's basically pointing out that you can work with a very natural method that's already going on in your life.
	It's just that most people are not aware of it.
	They don't know what's going on, but unbeknownst to most people, Things are being studied at some of our great universities right now, such as Harvard, where they're looking at embodied cognition.
	And there are examples in my book that actually show.
	Wait, wait, wait.
	Embodied cognition.
	Lay that one out for me in English, please.
	Well, something that you could think of as a power pose, such as putting your hands behind your neck or if you're able to just stand up and put your hands on your hips.
	Yes.
	Or if you're sitting with a chair next to you and you put your arm out, extending it on the chair next to you.
	Basically, any of those expansive movements have a physiological effect of improving your levels of
	testosterone while decreasing the stress hormone of cortisone.
	And it's giving you a measurable improvement in confidence that other people can instantly
	pick up on if they're just assessing you in a surveying such as an interview situation.
	So basically it's based on this idea that St.
	Augustine presented years ago, you know a long time ago, where he said the mind commands the body and it obeys and there's so much research happening.
	I'm mentioning the work that Amy Cuddy is doing But there are lots of research laboratories around the
	world from Chicago to Singapore.
	Just lots of universities are studying ways that you can make a fist or stretch your fingers
	to increase willpower.
	And you can do things like skipping just to increase energy.
	You can get up and wiggle from time to time to stay awake.
	So this is something that some of the university professors are using in their classes.
	You know what I do before I do a program, before I go on the air at night?
	I do jumping jacks.
	Excellent.
	That's like the best thing you could do.
	I don't know.
	I've always done it.
	I don't know why it works.
	You tell me.
	You're the doctor.
	Why does it work?
	So what's happening is you're definitely, you know, obviously instructing your body that no matter how you were feeling before that, you're getting the benefit of the exercise itself, of course.
	So skeptics would say, well, you're just getting the blood flowing and so forth.
	And that's true.
	True.
	But it doesn't explain why some of these other things would work, such as making a fist and then suddenly you can stick to your diet.
	I'm sure you've experienced this.
	You might not be feeling that great before you do the jumping jacks.
	That's right.
	It definitely helps.
	I'm not sure why.
	at work. So the fact that you're doing jumping jacks is not just working the body, but it's
	the body, mind and spirit together. So that's what I would say. You're basically jumping,
	you're literally jumping into that reality where you've got that kind of energy, you're
	feeling, so I'm sure you've experienced this, you might not be feeling that great before
	you do the jumping jacks. That's right. It definitely helps.
	I'm not sure why, I just know it does. Now, I'm not so sure that the fist helps
	avoid temptation, but I'll work Well, I could give it a try.
	So, Quantum Jumps must be quite an interesting book, I would think, huh?
	Yes, because I did my best to just pack it full of incontrovertible, or incontroversible.
	non-controversial research that people can all agree with is, you know, this is something
	that has been tested. It absolutely works. As well as, I actually love a lot of the mind
	matter interaction situations that people share. And so I've got, the book starts out
	kind of normally and then as you go through it, it gets weirder and weirder, you know,
	until it gets to the point where people are by locating and avoiding tremendous accidents
	by teleportation.
	And what I'm suggesting is a lot of the things that you witnessed... Can I stop you for a second?
	Sure.
	I had a caller this last week in my open lines session.
	And she was one of several people in a vehicle in the backseat.
	And she said they were at a very, very high rate of speed.
	And they came to an intersection and they were... they had a truck directly in their path.
	I mean, you know, one of the big 18-wheeler type trucks.
	And she said it was like something skipped, something changed, but Art, the car passed right through the truck.
	We survived.
	It was on my Scott Freeline, which I might do again tomorrow night, because I like it so much.
	So, anyway, so she went right through the truck.
	Something in time skipped.
	Have you heard stories like that?
	Absolutely, yes.
	And that's the kind of thing I've been tracking for 16 years through my website, Reality Shifters.
	That's exactly what I document in this book, Quantum Jumps.
	Oh, really?
	Yes.
	So, and the explanation, what's going on, Once again, it's what the same thing that I was telling you, Dr. Yasunori Nomura at UC Berkeley has explained to me that we basically can expect to see these occasional sorts of behaviors and phenomena, the quantum physics that we would witness, you know, things like tunneling that you expect to see where, for example, an electron can go through a barrier
	It's not that different, it's just a different size scale when occasionally, now it's not happening all the time, you're not routinely seeing cars go through 18 wheelers, you know, but that exact scenario that you're describing is what I've heard about.
	Right, do not test this.
	No, do not test this at home.
	It's, you know, too dangerous because it's not something that would happen every time.
	No, it wouldn't.
	Doctor, what would you even suspect?
	Is driving that instance, if it really happens, if somebody really passes through a vehicle unharmed and lives where they should have died, definitely should have died, what agent is at work that allows that?
	We're back to that science has a lot of explaining to do.
	All I've got to offer right now is just the idea that As above, so below, that we've got this idea of quantum physics is the primary logic in the universe.
	So a lot of people assume that quantum is something you can sweep under the rug, kind of like you sweep dust under the rug.
	And so that tunneling and that weird entanglement and the superposition of states, that's happening down where we don't have to see it and the computers are going to take care of it.
	We don't have to look at it.
	We don't have to deal with it.
	I know that's what Einstein wanted to do with the whole idea, sweep it under the rug.
	Spooky stuff at a distance, get rid of this, put it under the rub.
	Right, because we don't want to deal with it.
	It's too scary.
	It gets back to, you know, what does it mean if there's a superposition of states?
	And what we're finding through quantum biology And wonderful work of researchers that are taking a look at the way photosynthesis works and so forth.
	This whole idea of quantum physics and all the so-called weirdness of it is happening at pretty much every scale.
	It's happening with DNA.
	It's happening with photosynthesis.
	I know those are small things.
	But then you go to the large scale, you're looking at the universe, you're looking at star clusters, and absolutely, scientists are definitely in agreement that we should expect to see, you know, as above so below, that this idea of quantum superposition of states should hold for every single level of reality.
	Do you think that a person Could put themselves in a state in which they could precipitate a quantum jump, save their own life, or change what otherwise was going to happen?
	In other words, could it be a very strong projected intent that would cause this?
	Yes, that's what I'm saying.
	This is one of those things that we're all doing this all the time, usually without noticing it's happening.
	Subconsciously?
	Yes, subconsciously.
	Because our minds are kind of slow to process and we are very habit-based creatures.
	So until we get to a point where we start envisioning things differently and having a different idea about the way things work, So, just the fact that you have your program is wonderful because people, their minds are expanding.
	They're not limited by the kind of confinements that most educators would keep us to because people can have doctoral degrees and not quite understand what's going on because they're so narrowly focused.
	One of the best things you can do is just recognize these things can happen.
	That it's possible that no matter what a dangerous situation might be happening, some people have absolutely seen what you would call a miracle.
	You know, that you can actually tunnel through an 18-wheel vehicle as it's barreling directly toward you.
	Yes, ma'am.
	Alright, let's begin to take some calls.
	I don't have any idea where this is going to go.
	We don't screen calls, so you get what you get, okay?
	Sounds good.
	Well, we'll see.
	Hello there.
	You're on the air with Dr. Larson.
	Well, good.
	I'm so glad you're back on the air, Art.
	Thank you.
	I've listened to you for years, and when you disappeared there for a while, it was just kind of like, oh no.
	Cynthia, you're a genius.
	I've had the Mandela thing myself, because I remember reading in the paper and watching television that he had died.
	And then, years later, he's back.
	And I'm like, what?
	But the big one was, back in between 1973 and 75, I distinctly remember watching the nightly news, and it was in the papers the next day, that Iran had come into the nuclear age with an above-ground nuclear test.
	I mean, just distinct.
	I remember that exactly.
	And when I started talking about all this stuff about Iran developing nuclear weapons, they had them 40 years ago.
	You almost have to wonder, Doctor, if there are very large differences individually or whether these things are sort of across the board with a healthy percentage of the population.
	Right, that's a good question.
	And I guess what you mean is, do people agree generally?
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Experiencing different things.
	That's right.
	What I've found is people experience, well, there can be little pocket clusters where people tend to agree.
	And on something like the Mandela effect, where people do remember Nelson Mandela passing away while he was incarcerated, then there can be kind of a huge cluster where lots and lots of people are noticing that.
	But it is possible for one person in a family to remember their childhood quite differently than other family members, for example.
	Boy, isn't that the truth.
	That's amazing.
	Any idea what modulates the effect?
	I know I'm asking impossible questions, but in other words, when I say modulates the effect, Small clusters, and then what modulates it up to, you know, a healthy percentage of the whole damn population.
	Right, well, the idea of, I mentioned quantum cognition earlier, and so there's something, and these ideas from quantum physics of entanglement, we touched on that.
	Right, right.
	You can actually think of it in terms of the way the memory system works, and there's some fabulous work being done by Zhang Wang at the University of Ohio.
	And she collaborates with a number of other quantum cognition experts.
	This is a brand new field.
	You know, all these areas we're talking about, this is cutting edge science right now.
	And what we're finding is that systems of memory definitely act a lot more like the quantum logic that we've been talking about, where, for example, there's kind of a fuzziness and Um, what scientists used to think was a very illogical memory system that humans have.
	It's only, it's not classical logic.
	It is definitely quantum logic.
	So, it depends, if you give someone a survey, for example, and you ask the questions in a certain sequence, their answers will depend on what order the questions came in.
	And according to the old classical logic, that should not be the case.
	But that definitely is the case.
	And so in a similar vein, getting back to your question, this is how, for example, two
	individuals can have different memories and also how one person could even notice an alternate
	history from something.
	Like you could put your keys down, walk away, come back, and the keys are not there.
	So that's what I would call a reality shift, and it's one of the more common ones.
	Or noticing your socks, you know, are not there in the dryer.
	You've been there, done that a million times.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Um, Mike on Skype.
	You're on the air with Dr. Larson.
	Hello.
	Hi, how are you, all right?
	Uh, fine.
	Um, it's Wolfman here from Wolf.
	Um, just wondering about this, uh, I'm thinking if we take, if there's two particles that can, like Dr. Larson said, are, like the one is, reacts with the other one, so you send it to, say, another planet, well you could possibly use the quantum connection to
	Telecommunicate, or communicate, I mean, between the two... You're absolutely right, sir.
	You're absolutely... Absolutely with no... Yeah.
	Like, it would be bang on.
	Like, just boom.
	No, you're absolutely right.
	Now, as far as we've come with quantum entanglement, not yet.
	Communication is not yet there.
	However, as I mentioned earlier, I'm reading about quantum twisting, and they think there are communication...
	Possibilities for it.
	So, yeah.
	Doctor, have you read about this quantum twisting at all?
	Not too much, but there's so much going on right now, it's amazing.
	Like I said, we're in this boom time period of developments happening, so it's extraordinary.
	And I would expect that something, you know, right now we don't have the distance that you would need between planets.
	Right.
	Like between Earth and Mars, for example.
	Sure would be a great experiment for the first manned Martian mission.
	to entangled particles is getting farther and farther.
	You know, so I would expect if you can get to miles, then why not get from Earth to Mars?
	Sure would be a great experiment for the, you know, the first manned Martian mission.
	By the way, do you see the Martian?
	Not yet, but I'm looking forward to it.
	Trust me.
	Yes, I have.
	Trust me.
	You don't want to miss it, period.
	Next caller in Orlando, I believe.
	No, they just jumped off the line.
	Let's go to this one.
	Hi, you're on the air.
	Hello, hello.
	Going once, going twice.
	Can you hear me, Mark?
	Oh, sure.
	I hear you.
	Yes.
	Hey, it's Jeff in Aberdeen, Maryland.
	Okay, Jeff.
	Something weird happened with the phones.
	Anyway, go ahead.
	I was probably on speakerphone listening, and that's what happened.
	I've got to send a shout-out to the undercover fans.
	Everybody, we're always listening to you and chatting while we're listening to you.
	The guest tonight is awesome.
	Yes.
	I wanted to uh with uh what you mentioned about the doctoral degrees and in their mind it's like I've really noticed a lot of doctors now are starting to you know be more awakened and possibly like you it's like they're quickening and shifting a lot of the more younger like some of the younger doctors but um one of the things that I've noticed um and it's just a simple little thing and it could be something that has to do with uh Concentration.
	It's going on all my life, but whenever I lose something, a girl told me one time, drop the lighter.
	Walking through the woods.
	Yeah, we were young.
	We should have been smoking.
	And in the snow.
	And she said, I was looking all over this place for it.
	She said, don't worry, it'll turn up.
	I'm like, it'll turn up?
	How's it going to turn up?
	I got home that night and the lighter was in my sock drawer.
	It's something that's always going on all my life, and I say that all the time.
	I'll be fighting, and I'll be looking for something, getting upset, and I'll stop, breathe, and say, it'll turn up.
	A lot of things, like the reality, I believe in all that stuff.
	The guest, I've really been looking her up, so I'm really going to be checking her out on YouTube.
	All right, sir.
	Thank you very much for the call, and check her out by all means.
	He's right about things that go missing and then sometimes turn up in absolutely, completely impossible places.
	And again, I would say it's the same kind of a quantum behavior occurring on a macroscopic scale.
	And I love the way that he's pointing out his process, because we touched on that briefly.
	Is there something you can do if you want to avert disaster?
	Is there something you can do if you want to find something that's been lost, even if it does come back?
	Right.
	Because sometimes you lose things and they've fallen into the ocean.
	You know out of a vehicle or what have you and it might seem impossible to get it back But he's got exactly the right attitude when you just have that it's just a very open-minded state of Just you know being in that state of relaxed energized awareness Some people say you can be so open-minded that the brains spill out, you know But I don't think in this case that's what we're dealing with let's go to Skype and somebody named tiny really I Yes.
	Hi Art.
	Hi.
	I'd like to ask a question for Dr. Larson.
	I'd like you to explain how to entangle particles to achieve quantum entanglement.
	I'll take the answer off the air.
	Okay.
	Thank you.
	You're very welcome.
	Doctor?
	Uh-oh.
	I see what I did.
	I see what I did.
	I'm sorry to somebody overseas.
	You have my apologies and I'm trying to get the doctor back and I think I've done it.
	There, I've done it.
	Did you hear the question?
	Yeah, I heard the question.
	Okay, go ahead.
	Was there more?
	Okay.
	Yeah, so it seems that to entangle something like diamonds, which is what's happening now as quantum computers are being built, this is actually going on.
	And so they're very tiny diamonds and usually There needs to initially be some state of proximity, so that there can be a shared kind of a crystalline structure, or a shared, you know, just this sort of a group.
	Are you suggesting a quantum sharing of diamonds?
	Well, this would be an answer to the question, how do you entangle something?
	That's right.
	But I wasn't aware of the diamonds, but maybe they do?
	Yeah.
	Diamonds have been entangled in laboratory conditions.
	And once again, the purpose of it was to see if they could be used for building future quantum computers.
	All right.
	Let me try to do what I messed up just a moment ago and ask if Richard is there overseas someplace or another.
	Hello, Richard.
	Richard, going once.
	Oh, sorry.
	Yeah, hello.
	I have a question for the doctor.
	Yeah, you've got to answer the phone when I come to you.
	I was wondering if this could possibly be evidence of time travel.
	Maybe someone's stirring up the time stream.
	Good question.
	Very good question, actually.
	Richard, where are you, by the way?
	Richard?
	Richard?
	Yes, Richard is here.
	Where are you, Richard?
	I'm in Yokohama, Japan.
	OK.
	All right.
	Doctor, time travel?
	Yes.
	Well, again, we were talking earlier about time gates in quantum logic going two directions.
	Some people have noticed things like the Vardiger situation, which is common in Norway, where people are noticed arriving before they get there.
	Yokohama, Japan.
	Yes, we got that.
	Yokohama, Japan.
	Thank you.
	So, the people arriving, did you say before they left?
	Yes, people arrive before they get there.
	It seems almost like teleportation or something.
	kind of like an echo effect or something. You'll hear, this happened to me actually, I heard my
	daughter and her friends coming to the front door which was open and I could hear voices and lots of
	noise. I was in the kitchen and by the time and in just a couple seconds that it took me to get
	from the kitchen to the front door that I found there was nobody there, nobody at all. And then
	some period of time later, like several minutes later, my daughter and her friends arrived.
	And I asked, did you get here earlier?
	And then you went somewhere?
	And no, that was definitely, they have a word for it in Norwegian, vardigger.
	And so in some cultures, it's expected and understood that these kind of phenomenon exist.
	But I think the caller wanted to know if Some kind of time traveler might have been initiating all of these things.
	Or if time travel could have been involved, yes.
	Right, and time travel definitely does get involved with a lot of these reality shifts.
	I've also experienced sort of a big gap in talking with a future self or a past self.
	Really?
	Yes, so definitely some what you might call aberrations in time that can occur.
	Alright, well here's an aberration in distance.
	Jas Munda, welcome to the show from Australia.
	Hi Art, fascinating show and a great topic.
	Thank you.
	What I want to know is like, do you think it's possible that reality is shifting all the time and we're not even aware of it?
	Like for example, maybe I was homeless yesterday, I didn't have a family and today I've got a wife and kids and all that.
	And do you think that these shifts are only happening on the individual level or is the whole world shifting at the same time?
	Good questions.
	Yeah.
	Well, to answer the first one about is reality shifting constantly?
	I would say it does appear to be so, but it's usually not on that level that you're talking about where you might have been homeless the day before and now you've got a wife and children.
	Because as near as I can figure it, it has to do with our entanglement, with our connections, with our loved ones, with what we believe our reality to be.
	So people that can get into a state of real detachment where, as Art was joking, their brains might be falling out, and that could actually be true.
	Because I know one woman, a friend of hers had died, and she drank herself into a stupor for almost a year.
	You know, I've been going to say for the last few minutes, I don't drink, but I feel like I need a stiff one.
	Jazz?
	Yeah, I'll have one too.
	Thank you.
	This is tough stuff, but you know, it just, it kind of makes sense.
	Anything else, Jazz?
	No, that's all.
	Great show, guys.
	All right, buddy.
	Thank you very much for the call.
	We sort of reach out and cover a lot of territory.
	Jerene on Skype, hello.
	Hello, hello.
	Thanks, Cynthia, for coming on.
	Art, when I called on the two through trash, I was talking about an object that I misplaced in a room and took everything out of the room and then there was nothing there and was complaining, hey, where is it, where is it, went back in the room and boom, there the object is.
	Right.
	This is, to me, making some sense now, the reality shifting.
	I'm curious, She's talking about hearing something at the door and family coming up and some kind of emotional attachment.
	Is that a necessary thing or is something perhaps just jokingly doing things, playful things, where things are shifting around us?
	Nothing... You mean like a poltergeist playing with our matrix?
	Oh yeah, it's a humorous type of thing.
	Instead of, you know, anything tragic or, you know, deeply seated.
	Alright, and... Hey, let's screw with this guy.
	Yeah, I gotcha.
	I gotcha, alright.
	Thank you for the call and the comment, Doctor.
	We'll address it when we come back.
	We're at a break point.
	Please stay right there.
	Yeah, a big stiff drink.
	From the high desert.
	This is midnight in the desert.
	raging away in the night.
	Remember, when calling Midnight in the Desert, let the phone ring until answered.
	These calls are unscreened for your listening pleasure.
	Call 1-952-CALL-ART.
	That's 1-952-225-5278.
	Okay, so it actually goes for everything.
	It's got tune.
	If you don't get through first time around, give it a try next time.
	And for those who think that I'm dancing on my guests, not just stepping on them, It's a function of Skype.
	Sometimes with Skype, we get, of course, the very, very good audio.
	But if it's more of a simplex setup, it's very, very hard for the other person to hear that you're even saying anything.
	Just for the record.
	And this is a very, very interesting comment from Joletta, who says, My husband and I have time slips all the time.
	Where what is experienced, heard, recalled, and so forth, is completely different from the other's experience, even in the same car.
	Unlike being in two different realities in the same space.
	Doctor?
	Yes, exactly.
	I did co-author a paper on this called When Worlds Collide and presented it with an anthropologist at a conference.
	It's such a common phenomenon and I'm glad that someone called in with that one because I think unless people hear about it, they might not realize what's going on and it's a very special relationship where two people trust each other well enough to believe the other person instead of just Assuming that they're wrong and they're obviously totally screwed up or something.
	It wasn't called in.
	It came as a computer message through what I call the wormhole and I get them as I do the program.
	Trish, you're on the air with Dr. Larson.
	Hi.
	Hello there, Art.
	Can you hear me okay?
	I hear you just fine.
	Okay, I've had so many times I've tried to call and had problems trying to get through, but I just wanted to say a big shout out to the Art Bell Time Travelers group on Facebook, all my friends over there.
	I wanted to say hello and tell Cynthia that I love everything she talks about.
	Everything is so interesting and we're very much enjoying her tonight and we would like to hear more topics like this, if at all possible.
	Well, they're entirely mind-boggling, obviously, but I think we can arrange it for you as we have arranged it this eve, okay?
	Okay, thank you.
	All right, Trish, take care.
	So they want to hear more, Doctor.
	Right.
	There's a lot we could talk about having to do with time, with loops of time, and we just touched on some of it.
	And I think once people start recognizing that these kind of things can happen, like a sequence of events can repeat, very much like what, if people remember the movie The Matrix, where...
	Yes.
	Do you remember that scene where Neo says, well he sees a cat walk by a doorway, and then he sees the cat walk by again?
	Right.
	That's right.
	You might think that only happens in a movie, but then when it actually happens in real life, that's when things get weird.
	And I've seen a sequence of repeating events happen twice in my life so far, and it's quite extraordinary.
	And I've had witnesses actually both times, but the first time that it happened I was at a conference and I was in a lobby where I was talking with another woman and we both saw a woman enter from the parking lot, come through the doors, and she was a well-dressed lady coming back from somewhere, maybe dinner or something.
	It was nighttime.
	She walked right past us and then she entered the other part of the hotel going back to her room I presume.
	I didn't follow her.
	Then I continued talking to my friend.
	And then a few minutes later, exactly the same woman came through the doors and started walking toward us.
	And I had been talking with my friend, and she knew that I was interested in reality shifts, so I immediately took the opportunity to turn to her and ask, did you notice anything unusual here about this woman?
	And my friend said, isn't that the same woman that just walked through the doors?
	I mean, really not that long ago.
	I wonder, Doctor, how many of these Micro or macro reality shifts occur and people just don't register them and or simply dismiss them.
	Exactly.
	I would hazard to guess a huge number.
	I would hazard that you're right.
	Silverdale Washington on the phone.
	You're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello Art.
	Hello Cynthia.
	I wanted to ask Cynthia, something happened to me years ago where I had gone for a mammogram and they found something really suspicious.
	So I had to go back like days later, the same doctor, the radiologist was going to do a sonogram.
	And I remember for that, when I was sitting there waiting for that first procedure, I had met several women that had breast cancer and I felt really a lot of compassion for them.
	And I then came back like a week later, and I had been taking healing classes in Hawaii.
	And when I went back a week later to have the sonogram, The same doctor was working on me.
	She passed over my breast and she found the conspicuous lump.
	She made a map of it and then she started around the breast for a few more moments to see if there was anything else suspicious.
	I had been given guides during the healing classes that I had taken and I could hear a guide saying, she's found it.
	And then she passed around the breasts and a moment later she came back and she kept going over that area back and forth for several minutes and getting really frustrated.
	And then I heard the guide say, it's gone.
	And I was like, oh my God, I don't know what's going on.
	So I heard the doctor tell me, she said, do you know what's happening and what's just happened?
	And I said, no, I really don't.
	I was starting to sweat just profusely because I was so nervous.
	And she said, she said, it's blonde.
	And she said, it was here a moment ago.
	I mapped it and it was on your mammogram and it's totally gone now.
	She said, do you know what just happened?
	And I was like, no ma'am, I don't know.
	And then she said, this has been happening for the last days.
	This has been happening here over and over and over to women patients that have come in here.
	And I remember having the guides were like, if you do something wrong, you know, you can have it back.
	I don't want it back."
	She said several women had had spontaneous healing in there.
	They said that they had done that for them because I was concerned about them.
	I really need that drink.
	It was really upsetting.
	I left there and I was very, very upset.
	Actually, I got the guy saying, you know, should we just not do this anymore?
	I was like, no, no, I'm sorry.
	You know, and I was just kind of praying to God, you know, let the guides continue to help.
	It's just that I was too shaken by the, you know, the accusatory nature of the doctor.
	She said, did you do something?
	And I said, I didn't do anything.
	I was very upset, you know.
	Doctor, I don't know.
	It doesn't get any better than that, does it?
	No, I think this is pretty good.
	There's a similar story that I share.
	Hold on, caller.
	Go ahead, doctor.
	Yeah, thanks for sharing that story about the sonogram.
	It's wonderful.
	I had a friend, Susan, that had a broken leg.
	She was camping and was jumping from boulder to boulder and slipped and fell and broke her leg.
	At a terrible time because she was starting a new job but she had a similar experience where she went in to have x-rays done and you know they basically saw from one x-ray reading to another that her leg went from being broken to unbroken and they were looking to her like can you explain this?
	From broken to unbroken?
	Yes.
	And I know it sounds outrageous, these things.
	It's the same thing as dead to undead.
	All the things we're talking about, this is what I mean.
	There's a definite similarity.
	What's the difference between one almost impossible thing to another?
	You're absolutely right.
	This is quantum logic in action.
	You know, if you can hear your guides, then I think that's tuning in.
	Who knows what that is, but you're tuning in to levels of consciousness, that topic we discussed earlier.
	What is consciousness?
	What am I?
	Yes, Techie Bryson, I think on Skype.
	Hello.
	Hi, this is Techie Bryson off of Bellcab.
	And I was going to ask the doctor, has she had any cases of pushed reality shifts where people have been pushed in their reality for maybe mind control?
	And maybe this would also explain the doppelganger effect with the quantum jumps where you see two people at the same time in different places.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Not personally.
	I haven't encountered much of the mind control situation, but I've heard of it.
	I've heard people that have felt like they've definitely had some kind of interference of some sort.
	Well, it's not exactly a quantum jump from what you've been talking about, Doctor, to, as the caller put it, a push.
	In effect, somebody making something happen.
	Makes you wonder.
	You can imagine one, you can imagine the other, I would think.
	You could imagine it.
	It's not part of how good it could get, but maybe.
	Yeah, I don't know if it would be good.
	Anything else, Collar?
	No, that's it.
	I just work out here by the Oak Ridge National Lab Complex in East Tennessee, so we always hear about weird stuff.
	Well, say hello to the vaguely lovables for me.
	of hello vaguely lovable bail guy.
	I didn't mean literally, but okay.
	Thank you very much.
	Okay, let's go to the phone, I guess.
	You're on the air with Dr. Larson.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Before I get to my main point, I just experienced a time stream thing while on hold.
	It might have just been a technical glitch, but prior to the last break, I heard the caller ask this question and then you went to break and then all of a sudden I heard the call again from the very start.
	That was not a quantum jump.
	That was me bringing up the audio so that everybody could hear it.
	During the news, the people that were on hold so they could hear it.
	I do that occasionally.
	I bring up the news so people can understand that they're still connected But I can understand why you felt like you had a jump.
	Okay.
	Now, a couple nights ago you had a guest on who presented a theory that, if it is true, I think might explain all of this.
	It was the idea that your memory, that people's memories are stored outside of their bodies in sort of like an astral plane or some place where basically it's stored.
	And if that was the case, then maybe something can get in there and sort of corrupt the data and alter our memories.
	All right.
	Doctor?
	Well, it's an interesting model, and it's possible, but I don't know, because I didn't hear that whole show, so it's hard to comment cogently.
	All right.
	Going back to the break, talk about a time skip, there was a caller asking if this could be some sort of Playful tampering going on by, I don't know, some great overseeing alien or something, or somebody toying with the Matrix.
	At times, it seems playful, almost like a poltergeist is just toying around with us.
	Remember that?
	Yes, I do.
	Was that Doreen?
	I believe so, yes.
	Yes, absolutely.
	And definitely, these can be playful.
	And I think it helps if you're in a playful mood yourself, then that kind of thing can happen.
	It helps to have a sense of humor to be talking about all this.
	It does help to have a sense of humor.
	All right.
	Peter, you're on the air with Dr. Larson.
	Hi, Art.
	Hi.
	I'm a big fan.
	I had a really funny story to tell you.
	I'm an identical twin, and you were just telling the story about a lady coming through the door that's nicely dressed.
	You see her again.
	Well, I've actually done that to my boss once, because we both dressed up in exactly the same clothes, and because we look so alike, I would come in one door, walk through and go out the other, and my twin brother would come through another door, dressed exactly the same, and go through another door, and we'd do that a couple times until our boss thought he was going nuts, and then we both walked into both Pretty cruel, pretty cruel.
	And then she walked out and I was like what?
	Well that's interesting, when we asked the second walker, it seemed like the same person again.
	She was wearing the same outfit, same kind of expression on her face.
	And she got totally exasperated when we asked her about it.
	So it wasn't that kind of look on your face like ha, gotcha, or anything like that.
	It was just like, why are you bothering me?
	I don't know what you're talking about.
	She didn't seem to understand anything we were talking about.
	Like, didn't you just come through here?
	She thought we were nuts.
	And it was really obvious from her facial expression.
	There was no trace whatsoever of haha.
	But to intentionally set out to do this to somebody, especially a boss, probably one you don't like that much, is pretty cruel, sir.
	I appreciate your call, anyway.
	Let's go to Portland, Oregon, on the phone.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	I want to say, Cynthia, your voice is so soothing.
	I could listen to you talk a whole lot.
	Very kind.
	Thank you.
	I have a question that I'm not even sure how to frame.
	When you talked about the atoms that would do opposite of each other no matter how far apart they were.
	Particles.
	Yeah, particles.
	Is it possible at all for that to be true maybe of people?
	That there's a person maybe that's just the opposite of when I go up, they go down somewhere around.
	I know what the doctor is saying in a way, yes.
	Yeah, that's pretty close to it.
	So it might not be emotionally up and down.
	We're talking about spin.
	That would be one property that particles can possess.
	Yeah.
	Alright, I'm having a drink for you Art.
	Thank you very much.
	Right, then yes, absolutely.
	It could explain how you might know that someone's on the phone, or you might just get that feeling
	about someone you care about, or you might know the exact moment when someone passes
	away, that kind of thing.
	Yeah, yeah.
	All right, I'm having a drink for you, Art.
	All right, thank you very much.
	And I don't really think we have time for another call, but we have time to do this.
	Dr. Larson, obviously, you know, I've got every line I've got going, and Skype's thousands of them trying to get in.
	A lot of people want to talk to you.
	A lot of people want to talk about this.
	Now, you were cut short by an hour because of continuing breaking news, and so I guess what I want to ask is, would you be willing to come back Absolutely.
	It would be my honor and my pleasure.
	I'm just so glad you're back on the air, as so many people are saying tonight.
	hold of you and book you for another entire full show somewhere down the line.
	Really?
	Can you do that?
	Absolutely.
	It would be my honor and my pleasure.
	I'm just so glad you're back on the air as so many people are saying tonight.
	Really?
	So you've been a listener for a while?
	A long time ago, back when you were on the air.
	And I just feel that a lot of people are smart, but it's a whole different thing to use that intelligence and to stay active with it and pay attention.
	And you really do that.
	I do try.
	Thank you, doctor.
	It's been a wonderful night.
	Take care.
	Dr. Cynthia Larson.
	All right.
	Well, what a night.
	That stiff drink.
	That I know I really won't have.
	It sure does sound good right now.
	So everybody have a great night.
	Tomorrow is just a fun night.
	I'm really tempted to continue with the Scott Freeline because I think it's really cool and not nearly enough people got through.
	So I'm going to think that one through a little bit and see you all tomorrow night for, well, who knows what?
	Open lines.
	Good night.

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