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Oct. 13, 2015 - Art Bell

02:25:54

Art Bell MITD - Dr Barry Taff

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	Beginning in November, KAOI in Maui, Maui, Hawaii.
	I'd also like to announce KXLY in Spokane, Washington.
	Wonderful to have you aboard.
	They began last night, I heard.
	Gunnersville, Alabama, WGSV may start tonight, so I would like to welcome those affiliates on board.
	There are many, many, many in the hopper, but we're not going to read about them until we actually have them signed, sealed, delivered, and on the air, as it were.
	Okay, we have two rules for this program.
	No bad language.
	And only one call per show, and that's not many rules, is it?
	Now, I want to, again, say, as I did last night, that if you don't go and see The Martian, you're crazy.
	I mean, if you like science, if you like space, if you like space and science, there's no way to go wrong.
	Every part of it was perfect.
	The actors and actresses, the story itself was superb to go along with the superb CGI.
	So, The Martian, it's got to be the movie of the year.
	It better be or I'll be upset.
	But, you know, I'm upset most years.
	Last year I think it was Birdman and I couldn't believe it.
	I went, oh God, really?
	Who picked this?
	Not that the Birdman was an awful movie, it just wasn't, in my opinion, a good movie.
	Could have been a great movie, I guess, if you're a member of the Academy and you love that kind of stuff.
	But I didn't see Birdman at all.
	I wonder how many of the rest of you felt that way.
	All right, so we are going to... we have not yet named the program.
	But we are going to do ghost stories for Halloween.
	And what we want you to do is, as we do every year, send them in.
	Now we can either call this Ghost to Ghost, because I've done it for decades, or we can call it something new and cute.
	You're welcome to make suggestions.
	But if you have a good ghost story, and good ghost stories can be told succinctly, Fairly rapidly and effectively.
	So if you have a good ghost story, just write a little tiny synopsis of it and send it to me an email.
	And then be available on a decent phone at air time.
	And if it's a good one, we'll call you.
	Or I may call.
	Actually, I'm the only one here.
	So it'll be me calling you.
	Anyway, here's how you do it.
	Little synopsis of your ghost story, please.
	Send it to Artbell at K-N-Y-E.
	That's Kilowatt, Nancy, Yokohama.
	Easy.
	Artbell at K-N-Y-E dot com.
	Little synopsis.
	And send it off.
	And then who knows, I may call you on Halloween Eve when we do whatever it is we decide to call it.
	But it will be creepy.
	Okay, let's look at the news.
	Yes, I saw the debates.
	I thought Bernie did not do as well as I thought he might have.
	I thought Hillary did as well as you would expect her to do.
	She's very practiced.
	And I don't have much more to say about it than that.
	I watched it.
	I reminded myself why I'm not that interested in politics.
	The Russian military intervention to prop up Syria's government has brought new scrutiny of the CIA's secret support to Syrian rebels fighting Bashar al-Assad.
	But how far is the U.S.
	willing to go to empower its proxies to take on Vladimir Putin's allies?
	Answer seems to be not much, not very far.
	Countering their involvement over there, Is nowhere near as important, apparently, as battling the Islamic State.
	Nevertheless, our jets, you know, contrails are crossing up there, Russian and American jets, and oh God, it's dangerous.
	California will end its legislative season having enacted some of the country's most aggressive social policies.
	Now, these are laws requiring student vaccinations, Granting terminally ill people the right to life-ending medications and mandating equal pay for women.
	That's quite a lot.
	So California is going to take on end-of-life issues.
	Hmm.
	Twitter is going to lay off 336 employees.
	So if you have a tweet to get out, you better hurry.
	Well, not really.
	It'll be fine.
	Signaling all of this signals CEO Jack Dorsey's resolved to slash costs and of course who gets slashed when you need more income more and better bottom line it's the employees.
	The following from the internet anomalous.com.
	This list contains most of the usual suspects, pardon the pun, but the sorted true histories behind the ghostly legends are an entertaining read.
	Every link within this article leads further down the rabbit hole of irresistible late-night reading, or talk radio in this case, As you dive into an extensive collection of first-hand paranormal experiences from police officers.
	That's right.
	These two sites will give you stories from police officers about the things we talk about.
	It will give you stories of ghosts.
	It will also link to the nurses.
	It's called allnurses.com.
	What's your best nursing ghost story?
	Well, you know, you just know that nurses have lots and lots of ghost stories.
	Because, of course, they tend the ill and dying, and many times that is who is around when you die, is a nurse, right?
	Not necessarily a doctor.
	I guess you're coding, so they're on the way, but if you actually are passing, it's probably a nurse that gets to you first.
	I have heard so many tales of people who have felt a soul actually pass through them on the way to, well, its final destination.
	Sorry about the movie reference.
	All right, coming up here in a moment, this is, after all, October, so staying true to it, Dr. Barry E. Taft.
	Who holds a doctorate in psychophysiology with a minor in biomedical engineering as a world-renowned parapsychologist.
	Who worked out of UCLA's former parapsychology lab from 1969 to 78 as a research associate.
	During his 40-year career, Dr. Taft has investigated more than 4,000 cases of ghosts, hauntings, poltergeists, alien abductions, and UFOs.
	He has conducted extensive studies in telepathy and precognition, which led to the development of the initial protocols for what was later termed remote viewing.
	Dr. Taft participates on the lecture circuit and has consulted for government, business, and law enforcement, including the CIA, Really?
	Office of Naval Intelligence, ONI, National Security Agency, NSA, DIA, Defense Intelligence Agency, Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, DARPA, and the FBI, Interpol, APD, California Highway Patrol, and Santa Barbara Sheriff's Office.
	Wow!
	And the Westminster Police Department.
	Where hasn't he been?
	He has taught on numerous occasions at UCLA, UC Irvine, UC San Diego, and UC Santa Cruz.
	In the spring of 2010, Dr. Taft's book, Aliens Above, Ghosts Below, was published by Cosmic Pantheon Press and has since become an underground phenomenon.
	Coinciding with the launch of Dr. Taft's website, which is www.barrytaft.net.
	So in a moment, Dr. Taft, and we will talk about, well, Aliens Above, and Ghosts Below, and all of that.
	I played it for the man who's worked for more agencies than anybody I know.
	I had to just read them all.
	Dr. Barry Taft, welcome to the program.
	Thank you, thank you very much.
	It's a pleasure to be back on with you after all this time.
	After all this time, about a decade at least, right?
	Yes, yes.
	Long time.
	Good to hear your voice again.
	Good to hear yours too.
	By the way, what is it like, before we get started, working for so many of the NSAs of the world, the DIAs, all these, JARP, I mean, just everything we talk about here, usually involving some sort of conspiracy, you've been there.
	Well, basically it's like never telling anybody what you're doing.
	You sign national security oaths.
	And you can't really discuss it in any detailed manner what you're doing because it would violate your oath and you would put yourself in jeopardy.
	And even back when the labs opened during the, you know, in the 70s, we were doing a lot of the work there.
	I was interviewed by the Daily Bruin more and more than one occasion.
	And one time I was a little too open about what we were doing and got some rather nasty phone calls from some of these groups.
	And there was enough misinformation in the article.
	There was errors in what they said, where they did print a retraction.
	And some of these groups said, hey, if you don't correct this, there's going to be a
	problem in your future.
	Like, you'll never get a job, you'll never be able to get a home, you're not going to
	get credit.
	I go, what?
	And I said, look, why did you say this?
	I said, because I didn't think it was a problem.
	It is a problem.
	So there was enough errors.
	Everything went away.
	And it was written up in the Daily Bruin article, you know, 40 years ago or somewhere around
	So you didn't get a call like, you know, how's the family, doctor?
	Cute little girl you have there or something awful like that.
	No, but I did get a visit from members of two different groups on a weekend morning at about 11 a.m.
	in the late 70s.
	And they were complaining about someone, I can't use the name, of a powerful family who was trying to investigate me through these agencies.
	And I learned who it was.
	I went, what?
	This is the aunt of a girl I'm dating.
	And they go, who's the girl?
	She's my age.
	It was like 29 or 30 at the time.
	And I said, is there a problem with her legally?
	I go, no.
	Do you have children?
	No.
	And I didn't know what the problem was.
	And then I found out through them, that the and to this woman whoever was linked to one of the
	most powerful family to the country in terms of corporate america i didn't
	know this i think she was having me followed a train to find out more
	about me and the one thing the intelligent agency to do not like is when
	other people try to get information and then about people to work with them
	and so you know i work all my god this is ridiculous So, you know, we all got a laugh out of Will, went out to lunch, and they said, this is about a girl?
	Yeah, I go, what kind of people do you date?
	I go, apparently people I don't know very well.
	And that's the end of that.
	Dealing with these people is very odd because they're not like normal people.
	The whole mentality is different.
	They're more paranoid.
	They're more reclusive.
	Little more angry, a little more bitter.
	A lot of them see what I run.
	They don't like their jobs because it turns them into machines that are there to do one thing only, and that's it.
	But it's been a long time since I've dealt with them, and I don't miss them.
	I totally get that, the machine part.
	I don't know how people can do jobs like that, honest to God.
	Whether it's sitting in a factory and stamping the same thing again and again and again or whatever it is, I just really can't imagine it.
	Alright, so you've been in this field a long, long time now and I do wonder how a person clinically sets about to study the paranormal.
	Well, the first thing you have to understand is The way parapsychology, which is the science that investigates the paranormal, views this area.
	Can you tell me what parapsychology is?
	The best answer available, in my mind, is it's the scientific study of the exchange of energy and information between people and the environment in ways that preclude the five known sensory systems.
	Bottom line, we're antennas.
	We receive and send information remotely And this is, I mean, through time and through space, the mechanisms are somewhat understood, but not totally.
	And they imply a different reality than what we've been taught in school when we took physics or chemistry or biology.
	There's a lot more going on than we ever believed.
	If I were to go back to my young self 46 years ago or earlier and tell my young self what we know now, my young self will look at me and go, you're out of your mind.
	You're crazy.
	What are you talking about?
	This stuff?
	No.
	If everything we expected to learn, we did not learn.
	What we never thought of hit us in the face.
	In science, there's two ways you conduct research.
	One is in a lab with controlled experiments to replicate your data.
	Right.
	And, you know, you build models and theories and all that.
	You prove or disprove a hypothesis.
	The only other way is if you can't lure the phenomenon into a lab and do research, you must go out in the field and collect data for a very long period of time, hoping To see longitudinal patterns in such data.
	And I've been fortunate enough to do both, more of the latter than the prior.
	And the patterns that have appeared have been extraordinary.
	Things that are just mind-boggling, because they run contrary to what we think about ourselves.
	And in the end, they may tell us more about ourselves than we ever imagined.
	Alright, let me tell you what I've observed decades of doing talk radio about this subject.
	A lot of it is BS, frankly, and a lot of it is just simply not true.
	It may be entertaining, but it's not true.
	But, and it's a big but, Doctor, There is a great deal of it that I have found to be absolutely, unquestionably true, and that would go particularly for that which I have personally experienced.
	And, you know, of course everybody would say that.
	If I felt it, if I experienced it, then it's true.
	But there are some things I know are true, and that's why I continue to pound away In this area, because we are more than just our physical selves, more than our physical belongings, more than physical everything.
	There's something that's true about that.
	Right.
	I agree with 100% of what you said, but even more so than you described.
	Once you get past the 98 or 99.9 chunk of garbage that's being discussed to the public, told to the public, once you get past that, what's left is extraordinary beyond words.
	Oh yes.
	And, like I said, most of the stuff we see on reality shows, we can ignore.
	It's entertainment, and it was never meant to be anything more than that.
	I was asked, when the whole genre began, reality shows, I was contacted by one of the first creators of one of the early shows to be on the show, so I didn't know him.
	I met with him in his office in West Los Angeles, and he told me what he wanted to do, and I said, but you realize that 99.99999% of the time, nothing's going to happen when you go out and investigate things.
	Expect to meet with a meteorite every time you go out into the field.
	So what are you going to do?
	Well, we're going to do something reverse logic.
	I go, oh, what do you mean?
	Probably we're going to shake the camera.
	We're going to fake stuff and make people think it's real.
	And when something does happen, we'll make it look like a hoax.
	I said, well, it's not me.
	And I walked out.
	Yes, well, there you have it.
	I mean, look, I interview people here.
	Some of them make astounding claims.
	Some of them are very entertaining.
	I let them make astounding claims.
	I can't disprove what they're saying.
	But on the other hand, I do sit here and doubt it.
	There are others who make claims that I understand very well may be true.
	And some of it, as I mentioned, I've experienced myself.
	And I'll have a big fight with anybody who says that's not true.
	What drew me into the field was not simple scientific curiosity.
	That was sufficient.
	But what drew me in was growing up.
	I had all these extraordinary paranormal encounters, experiences.
	Now, ghosts, telepathy, precognition, non-body experiences.
	Why me?
	Why not my family and friends?
	So I had to make a choice.
	Either I'm nuts, everyone else is nuts, or something extraordinary is going on.
	And I pick the latter of all three, because these things keep happening.
	And on my website, I have a blog called, A Different Kind of Psychic, Being a Medical Intuitive.
	And this is sort of where it all began for me.
	I've told this story many times, and it bears repeating, because I remember it like it was yesterday.
	I was ten years old in the fifth grade, and playing in the courtyard one sunny day.
	And this little blonde girl named Christine is walking towards me, and beautiful little blonde girl, blue eyes, a sky blue dress with a flower on the top.
	And I'm looking at her, and suddenly it just clicked on.
	And what I mean by clicked on is suddenly I could see that there was a tube coming out of her right side, and there was a plastic bag under her dress, and I kept rubbing my eyes.
	What's this?
	I went up to her.
	I said, Christine, What's this tube?
	And she's kind of screaming and yelling.
	So they dragged me in the teacher's office and then the principal's office.
	It turned out she had a colostomy.
	She had a colostomy at 10 years old.
	So, you know, I told the principal of the school, look, this is... He said, look, did you sleep in the girl's bathroom or did you look under her dress?
	I said, I didn't either.
	It just came on.
	He goes, it's like x-ray vision.
	He goes, all right.
	So he calls my mom, and my mom talks to him.
	She goes, yeah, Barry can do this.
	And the principal went, what?
	So obviously this had begun much earlier, if your mom knew about it.
	Yeah, a couple years earlier.
	And I did it to them, family members.
	They just didn't want to talk about it, but it happened in school.
	So the conversation between my mother and the principal ends, and the principal looks at me and says, look, I don't know who you are or what you're doing, but if we hear of this again, you're going to be expelled.
	How are you arrested?
	And I looked at him and I said, well, you know, sir, I said, you've got a weird scar.
	Well, you must have had appendicitis or something.
	It's always purple.
	Now I call it a keloid.
	I didn't know that word then.
	In other words, you were sick of school.
	You were ready to get expelled.
	No, I didn't.
	No, I just told him about it.
	He meant doing it to other students.
	Oh, I see.
	But he had just threatened you with expulsion for doing it.
	And so you're telling him about his own scar.
	OK.
	Yeah.
	And then he turned purple on me.
	Yeah, I bet.
	And he just said, all right, Barry, get out.
	And remember, if I hear one other instance, you're toast.
	You're out of here.
	So there was no other instance at that school.
	But that's what I started growing up with.
	And I go, why me?
	Why not?
	You know, why are these... So, just jump forward to July 4th, 2013.
	Yeah.
	One of my friends, he's a colleague, he's a medical doctor.
	We've known each other.
	We met in the lab in 1972.
	We own a number of medical, patented medical devices.
	We've written scripts together.
	Anyway, so, he brought over his new girlfriend, who I didn't even know, and her children, who I didn't know existed.
	He wanted me to diagnose the children and her.
	Okay, so, you know, it'll be in a way.
	They come over.
	It was warm, but not hot.
	And they come upstairs.
	Beautiful woman.
	Beautiful woman.
	Early 40s.
	And I looked at her kids.
	I looked at the boy.
	He was probably 12.
	Cute kid.
	And I looked at him.
	I saw the strangest thing I've ever seen in my life.
	Even for me, it like, it froze me.
	The best way to describe it, what I saw was that his frontal lobes were missing.
	Holy mackerel.
	And I kept rubbing my eyes, what the?
	What am I?
	May I ask a quick question?
	Are you only able to see people with some sort of defect, doctor?
	You know, as in frontal lobes are missing, or are you able to look inside anybody's head?
	Laterally, anyone.
	Anyone?
	It's as easy to do as typing to me.
	Let me finish this story.
	Okay, you're like a human MRI, but go ahead.
	I looked at him, and I kept rubbing my eyes, and he tugged me to the side.
	He had cortical encephalopathy, which is the disease that eats away part of the brain.
	He didn't tell me this, and obviously his mother didn't tell me.
	Then I swung my vision over.
	I looked at the boy's mother, and I said, boy, you must have smoked a lot.
	Your lungs look like brown paper bags, black spots.
	You have COPD, right?
	And she turned purple, and her eyes got real large.
	No, it's not.
	It may be easy for you, it's not easy for me.
	my place like some shot her in the butt with a BB gun. So that was fun, but I mean it's
	easy to do. I mean, the problem is I can't stop it from happening.
	It may be easy for you, it's not easy for me. I have never looked inside anybody.
	Remember the movie Man of Steel in 2013 came out?
	I do, I do, I do.
	Remember the scene where young Clark Kent is in the classroom and suddenly he's looking through people?
	Yes.
	And he freaks out, runs and hides in the closet?
	Yes.
	With the exception of the latter part of that scene, that's what I lived through.
	I go, what's going on?
	Why am I seeing this?
	And even if I, another example, when The Dark Knight came out, what you see the screening, I met a friend there, I knew from the UCLA days.
	So we drove separately and we sit down, the movie starts, and suddenly my bladder feels like it's about to explode.
	It's burning and cramping.
	I'm going, oh my God, what's happening?
	All right, we're about to have to go.
	We're going to have to go to break.
	OK.
	And when we come back, we'll pick up with your bladder exploding.
	Dark Matter Network News.
	I'm Amy Martin.
	The Dutch Safety Board has issued their final report on the downed Malaysian Airlines flight MH17, claiming that it was struck down by a Russian surface-to-air missile.
	The passenger jet crashed near the Ukraine-Russian border last July, killing all 298 passengers flying to Kuala Lumpur from Amsterdam.
	U.S.
	and German intelligence claimed at the time that the plane was shot down by pro-Russian insurgents during the height of the territorial conflict.
	The investigation that involved reconstructing the nose of the plane concluded that the impact occurred on the left side of the cockpit.
	Fragments of missile debris have been identified as the Russian-made 9M38.
	Russia claims that these weapons are no longer used by their military and insists that they must have been obtained by Ukraine forces.
	Archaeologists at Stonehenge may have discovered the eating habits of the monument's Neolithic builders.
	According to researchers at the University of Sheffield, barbecue-style feasts, including roast pork and beef, seem to have occurred with dairy products such as milk and yogurts, which were only found in use in ceremonial areas.
	One researcher notes, the special placing of milk pots at the larger ceremonial buildings reveals that certain products had a ritual significance beyond that of nutrition alone.
	The sharing of food had religious as well as social connotations for promoting unity among Britain's scattered farming communities in prehistory.
	The evidence was gathered from remnants of cooked meals in clay pots as well as animal bones found scattered throughout the site.
	The blog GadgetZZ.com just received a mysterious DVD.
	Containing what appears to be a person in a 17th century plague doctor's mask and black robes, the figure looks to be communicating a strange encrypted message.
	The disc, which features a series of letters, numbers, and symbols written on the outside, contains the mysterious figure with an odd blinking light in the middle of its hand.
	The video also appears to have numerous deliberate glitches, and it is thought that the figure may be communicating to the recipient through some sort of encrypted Morse code.
	The DVD menu also features an image of human bones.
	The blog claims that the disc arrived from Poland and is reaching out to readers far and wide to help disseminate the code.
	Check it out for yourself on GadgetZZ.com.
	Harvard is looking to cure type 1 diabetes with the help of stem cell research.
	The university has utilized embryonic stem cells to make human insulin-producing beta cells for supplementing those which no longer function in individuals with type 1 diabetes.
	Diabetes affects an estimated 9% of adults around the world, with over 1.2 million deaths from the disease annually.
	According to Harvard, these researchers are now just one preclinical step away from the finish line.
	This has been Amy Martin for Dark Matter Network News.
	Anyway, Dr. Barry Taff is my guest, and he was, when we left him, in some medical distress with regard to his...
	It was in a story, though, not in current life, or he'd be fine after that seven-minute break.
	So, anyway, pick up, doctor.
	Yeah, so, the movie starts running, and suddenly, as I said, I start feeling a chronic cramping, burning spasm in my
	bladder.
	I go, what's this?
	I don't have problems with my bladder.
	The woman I was with suddenly got a solid call from her daughter, which is the phone was on vibrate.
	She had to leave.
	So she did need my help.
	It was, you know, no big deal, but she had to leave.
	So I stayed and watched the movie.
	About 10 minutes after she left, I felt fine.
	I thought she called the next day to ask how the film was.
	And after I asked her how her daughter was, She revealed to me that she, I told her what happened to me with the bladder and she said, that's really odd, I had a really bad bladder infection that night.
	Huh.
	So sometimes I see it, sometimes I feel it, sometimes both.
	But it can be, it's an impediment, encumbrance in terms of getting close to some people because most as we get old, stuff happens.
	Yeah, can you, um, can you see these things at will still?
	Yes, it's like I said, it's no difference to me looking at a computer screen or driving.
	And if someone, like if I'm ever near people who are epileptic, I'll start feeling dizzy and or I'll pass out.
	You know, you spent many, many years in these three-letter agencies.
	If you had told them what you just told me, you would have been out on your ear.
	Correct, and therefore I never discussed it.
	Good move.
	The reason I met these groups, these individuals from these intelligent agencies, was they came and they witnessed, and this is discussed in another blog on my website called Learned Psy, Training to be Psychic, about the remote viewing work we did.
	It talks about how these people, a number of them, not by name, came to our lab and witnessed these experiments we were doing, and they were just blown away.
	You know, some of us could do it better than others, some couldn't, but they had never seen it work that well under controlled conditions.
	They wanted to work with us later on, but UCLI went, no, no, no, be political suicide.
	It would have been back in those Calcioneers, it would have been looked upon as political suicide.
	Okay, let's switch gears very quickly if we can.
	I get messages on my computer.
	I call it the wormhole as we go along.
	Joe writes, Art, can you have him go into detail on the Entity case?
	I heard the interview you did with him back in the 90s, and boy, was that a spooky case.
	Do you remember which one that was, Doctor?
	Well, of course.
	It began August 22, 1974, Culver City, California.
	It began when my colleague, my old colleague at the time, was in a bookstore in Westwood, Hunter's Books, and he's talking about our work with a friend.
	And a woman and her friend on the next aisle overheard him, and she said, oh, by the way, my house is haunted.
	So my colleague went, okay, give me your name and number, we'll call you and set up an appointment.
	So we did, went out to her house, maybe a week or so later.
	It was a hot August night, Neil Diamond wasn't there.
	Very muggy in the house.
	Little shack on Braddock Drive in Culver City.
	And the first thing, Doris Bither, B-I-T-H-E-R, the very first thing she told us, right off the bat, that she'd been repeatedly raped by a ghost.
	And we went, what?
	Huh?
	We rolled our eyes back and we thought, this woman is, you know, emotionally disturbed.
	She needs help.
	She needs psychiatric intervention, medication, therapy, but she doesn't need a parapsychologist.
	Right.
	So we took her notes, we took notes down, but we looked, they said, really, there's nothing we can do for your situation.
	She went, what?
	I said, you know, we suspect what you need is something far different than us.
	And that was it.
	And then a week later, I wrote a big P on the top of the form, fill out in every case, that to me was psychotic.
	There's no reason to waste any more time with them.
	But she called back about a week to ten days later, and some friends and neighbors had witnessed it.
	Well, this changed the whole thing, because if there's corroborative testimony of multiple witnesses, you suddenly take some interest.
	So we go back to her little house on Braddock Drive.
	We're standing in the kitchen, talking, and a lower cupboard door comes open, and an iron skillet jumps out, or a frying pan jumps out, and takes a leap of a few feet away from the cupboard.
	And we checked if there were animals in there, or wires, or springs, or who knows what.
	There was nothing.
	And there began the onslaught.
	And the bedroom suddenly was ice cold.
	It felt like it was refrigerated, yet it was a very warm summer.
	And yet we couldn't detect the source of the cold.
	And we couldn't always record it, which is even stranger.
	So what I was going to ask, could you measure it?
	Not all the time.
	We also, the temperature drop was also correlated with a disgusting odor of decomposing organic matter, like a body rotting.
	Right.
	And, you know, we smelled it.
	We didn't.
	We smelled it.
	We didn't.
	We brought in a Hewlett Packard sniffer, and it couldn't pick up anything.
	Then we began seeing these strange pops of light.
	And we, what's this?
	And so we saw them.
	We then try to control Doris's environment.
	We put up poster boards over her walls and ceiling and over the windows.
	This was happening primarily in her main bedroom.
	Can I ask you, when you say pops, I actually have a couple questions.
	When you say pops of light, what do you mean?
	like just like a light popped out real quickly, it popped on, it popped off, popped out,
	but the lights began to move. We called them, I called them corpuscular masses because they
	looked like gelatinous in nature and they were clearly three-dimensional, very dynamic and
	flying around the room and they were always lime green in color.
	Do not ask me why, because I have no idea.
	Okay, I won't, but what I will ask is, take you back one other question, then you can go on, and that is, you said you encountered witnesses to corroborate this woman's story before you really got into it.
	What did they see, and how many witnesses?
	There were three witnesses, all women, all a little older than Doris, and seemingly a little more grounded.
	She was very cryptic in her answers to her questions, and somewhat evasive.
	Today, if people are that evasive and cryptic, we walk away.
	We just leave because we don't waste any time.
	So, the witnesses, independently of each other, described these strange lights that would come show up and move around her house.
	And they'd hear noises, and they'd smell things, and, you know, see things out of the corner of their eye, and it began to disturb them.
	Now, Doris had four children, each by a different man.
	Three boys and a girl.
	We never met a girl who was very young.
	She kept her out of the house, so we were there, which is a very good decision.
	So we met her boys, and typical, you know, from young teenager to an older teenager, all they wanted to do was watch TV and play music.
	So we began observing things, which was consistent with what the other witnesses had described, and we got a photograph.
	The problem was, we saw a ball of light.
	This is on my website.
	Several different blogs, one's called the Paradoxical Entity Photographs, and also the Real Entity Case.
	You'll see both images on both.
	It looks like a comet with a tail on it, and we don't know what this was.
	We shot it very hard.
	We used Tri-X film pushed in development, and we got the strange light, but we never saw something like that.
	Then at one point, light started swimming.
	They were flying around doors in a little bedroom.
	And we did get some pictures of those, but it wasn't, they weren't lights.
	They were arcs of light.
	And this is all depicted on my website and in my book.
	Chapter two.
	Doctor, how frequently was this woman being sexually assaulted by this entity?
	She, well, those began and ended long before we knew her.
	Okay.
	So we couldn't prove or just prove that she'd been raped because too much time had passed.
	Right.
	But, you know, her story took on more credibility by the fact that we began having experiences there that we can document, you know, with cameras.
	But what we got in these two frames were extraordinary, because Doris is sitting on her little bed in the bedroom, and there's an arc of light that frames her.
	The bed goes up over her and back down.
	And what makes this particular shot so intriguing, Art, is that The walls behind the arc of light meet at a 90 degree angle.
	So if this was the projected light source, the light would be bent in the corners of the wall.
	Yet it is not, which tells us the light was in free space.
	Yes, really rounder.
	So that's pretty amazing.
	And then another point, you know, in that one of the many times we were there, these lights coalesced in the corner of the bedroom.
	They formed an apparition of a very large man from about the waist up.
	You could see the head, the brow ridge, the jaw, the orbits, outer orbits of the eyes.
	You could see the upper torso, the musculature, the pectorals, the biceps, the whole bit.
	And then it cut off at the waist, and it was that same sickening lime green.
	And this one wasn't a static one.
	It was articulating, meaning it was moving.
	Oh, boy.
	And then it popped like a lightbulb, like someone turned a lightbulb off.
	And it was gone.
	So I told everyone, don't say a word.
	We should stop shaking.
	Sit down and here's the pens, pencils, write down what you saw.
	Good idea.
	And we all saw the same thing with almost no variation.
	So we were shooting dozens of photographs of the apparition, whatever it appeared to be.
	And they didn't show anything.
	There was no glowing apparition of a large male standing there.
	There was nothing.
	Well, wait a minute.
	We all saw the same thing.
	How did we see if there was nothing emitting light that we could observe?
	A little bit of a problem.
	You know, Michael Persinger's work, where we know for a fact that very low-level electromagnetic fields could induce very intense audiovisual hallucinations in people.
	And it's an established fact.
	If that were the case in this instance, with up to 25 people in that little bedroom, you would expect a great deal of variation from one to the next.
	You bet.
	There's no such thing as shared or hysterical hallucinations.
	There's mass hysteria, but not mass hallucinations.
	Unless you're subjected to a hallucinogen, and even then it isn't the same.
	So, if we all saw the same thing, what was causing that image to appear to our eyes?
	Or did it appear to our eyes?
	Or maybe we saw it in our mind?
	Well, if something is literally injected into your brain so that your optic nerves register it, it's not necessarily going to be recorded on a camera.
	Correct.
	If something is affecting your brain directly, let's say the occipital lobe or the frontal lobe, the parietal or whatever, and that affects your brain to have some sort of visual hallucination, you can't record that with any instrument I'm aware of.
	That we know of, although the Russians decades ago were claiming they could record things like that.
	It never proved out.
	The question is, what did we see?
	Well, the case evolved.
	It evolved.
	The phenomena grew weaker over time.
	At one point, we were in the bedroom.
	It was ice cold, and we were singing, basically holding little seances.
	We had nothing else to do.
	And we put on music that the children's voice said, and they put it on.
	Whatever.
	At a certain point, to certain songs, the phenomenon would increase.
	So we started doing that, and we saw that it did indeed increase.
	But was that due to our intense dislike of the music?
	Or was that due to the fact that there was some correlation with the audio, the acoustic waves coming off the record players?
	We'll never know.
	But at one point, the black poster board started tearing off the wall.
	Now, each black poster board had a number and a magnetic orientation.
	So if we got more photographs, we could tell where they were coming from and going to.
	We had a reference grid.
	And suddenly something, you know, after we're pleading, do something, suddenly the duct tape was being pulled off right in front of us.
	It flew off the ceiling and hit Doris in the head.
	Wow.
	Which is pretty good, given that there are 25 people in the room.
	All right, so this sounds like poltergeist activity.
	Exactly.
	And contrary to what the book made you to believe, though, Frank DiValutta did a great job of turning the case into a novel, and the interpretation of the novel in the book was that it was a ghost.
	However, the evidence does not support that hypothesis, in my opinion.
	It supports the hypothesis that this was the Poltergeist case.
	This is discussed in Chapter 2 of my book, In Depth.
	Now, when Doris moved, finally, from Culver City to Carson, it followed her.
	We had some experiences there, but at a lower level of activity, discussed in my book and on my website.
	She moved again to Texas, it followed her there.
	And by the time we saw her again in 83, when the movie, The Entity, came out, she claimed that it all but ceased.
	However, a good friend of mine named Javier Ortega, from GhostTheory.com, he's been able to speak to her three male children.
	And they claim that phenomena began before she lived on Braddock Drive in Culver City and continued long after they moved.
	The problem is the one who did the most speaking of it kept contradicting himself during the interview, which is not a good indication of either memory or honesty.
	And, you know, Doris Bither passed away in 1999 at the age of 58.
	And the cause of death was cardiopulmonary arrest, but they don't know why her heart and lungs stopped.
	They just decided to.
	Yes, many deaths are unexplained.
	A lot of people don't know that, but many deaths go virtually unexplained.
	Was there any indication, Doctor, of what began the attachment of this poltergeist to her?
	Well, this is according to what her kid said.
	When they were living in Santa Monica, before they moved to Braddock Drive, little things began happening.
	Banging noises, things that appear and disappear.
	They'd see lights, but it was a very low level.
	They move into the Braddock Drive house sometime later, and it's a little shack.
	It was condemned several times by the city.
	I'm surprised anyone could live in it.
	She moved in a few days later, and an elderly Hispanic woman comes up to the door, knocks on it, and Doris goes to the door.
	What do you want?
	And she says, this house is evil.
	You must leave it.
	It used to be a farmhouse.
	You can't stay here.
	And Doris went, are you out of your mind?
	What are you talking about?
	So they left and Doris forgot about it.
	And then sometime, not a short time later, things started, you know, started to peak in Doris's new home.
	Now, as I said, most of my cases, I'd say 98% of my cases are linked to people, which seems to be the norm.
	However, it's more complicated than that, because we've now learned that this phenomenon is the result of some people's neurophysiology interacting in a very extraordinary way with the electromagnetic magnetic environment or geomagnetic environment they happen to live in.
	And if they have the right type of neurophysiological problem, this may end up producing what we call poltergeist activity.
	And this is outlined in my book, Ad Nauseam.
	But bottom line, As you know, poltergeist activity is referred to as recurrent spontaneous psychokinesis, meaning it's not controllable.
	It can be a macroscopic level for heavy massive objects can move including people.
	And this case supports that.
	Doctor, is it your view, looking back on this case now, that she was the center of the activity?
	Voluntarily or involuntarily, more likely, she was producing this poltergeist activity herself?
	Yes.
	Yes.
	My book discusses this in depth in Chapter 2, that they were libidinal fantasies that were somehow being externalized, and they were triggering The onset of the phenomenon of Doris had a really very dysfunctional relationship with her family growing up with different men and it's sort of like there was an episode of Star Trek, I forgot the name, with Michael Dunn.
	They were on a planet where all the elders had psychokinetic abilities and at one point one of the actors becomes sick and And Spock said, we're seeing this telekinetic or psychokinetic manifestation of Parlem's delirium.
	And that's sort of what we think was going on in Doris's case.
	And this makes it all the more interesting.
	Because if something can affect us, the environment, and we couple with it in a very unusual way, we can release energy that can tear the environment apart like that.
	At one point, the fuse box was torn out of the wall and thrown at Doris.
	Candelabra was thrown at her.
	It's more amazing that it was coming from her than if it was a ghost.
	Oh, that's astounding.
	I mean, just to sit and observe these things happening, to see them happening, I say on the one hand I would love to be able to observe and see it myself, but it would scare the you-know-what out of me, so I don't know if I really want to see it.
	If you live to be a thousand, you have a higher probability of being hit with a meteorite in ten minutes than you do of this phenomenon harming you.
	It's just, your own fear is usually the biggest problem anyone has.
	Our own fears, because we're startled, we don't know what it is.
	It didn't threaten us, but it certainly did terrible things to Doris Leach, you know, and, you know, by what we did experience there, and record, over time, in her initial home, and then in another home, and then she moved from Carson to San Bernardino, Riverside, and then to Texas, and, um, it's continued to happen.
	Alright, hold tight, Doctor.
	We'll be right back to you.
	This is the shorter break.
	Doctor Tav, the ability of a poltergeist, or in this case, the lady we talked about, to move physical objects You know, that requires energy, and again, circling back, you think that she was able to somehow manipulate the electromagnetic field in some way that we don't truly understand?
	Well, it's yes, but it's more than that.
	We know for a fact that paranormal phenomena in general, whether it's ESP or remote viewing, all the way to poltergeist activity, the energies involved that create the event.
	Or not electromagnetic, gravitational, nuclear, at least not as we know them.
	However, we know that electromagnetic forces can mediate their response because they're coupling with us.
	This is on my website in my book.
	There's a number of parameters or variables that are at work here in poltergeist cases, living human agents.
	We call them poltergeist agents.
	One is location, location, location.
	The environment is Unique in some electromagnetic or geomagnetic way, which acts as a stimulus or an irritant to certain people's nervous system.
	Then, you have a person who suffers either from epilepsy in general or temporal epilepsy, which can make them hypersensitive to electromagnetic or geomagnetic fields.
	Then, if the field at the energy of the local physical environment, if the frequency of the electromagnetic energy or geomagnetic field is the same as their nervous systems, it will induce inductive
	resonance coupling, which means that their nervous system gets linked to this
	environment, and then their unconscious or subconscious can mediate
	the release of this force to wreak havoc on it and produce anything from object movement and disappearance and reappearance.
	Alright, so how about this, if a great deal of energy is used, if you've got the right equipment,
	you should be able to measure that energy in use, in progress.
	In other words, there should be a way, it's going to take a tremendous amount of energy to actually move a physical object, and that should be able to be measured if you've got the right equipment.
	Well, yes and no.
	We can measure the way the environment, like a highly high amplitude geomagnetic field or electromagnetic field, we can measure those.
	However, long before 210 pound man can be picked up and thrown across the room, and I've seen that happen in the San Pedro case, long before that could happen based on the energies we know of, and there's only four types of energies we know, you would be Your clothing and everything in the room would be set on fire by the liberated heat, the second law of thermodynamics.
	Not only does it not get hot when these things are turned off, it gets colder.
	It appears to get cold, but that could be the effect of the magnetic field on your body.
	You think it's cold when it isn't.
	So this is the whole problem.
	You see, let's say a 200-pound man is picked up and thrown on the wall like a ragdoll.
	Well, his clothing and everything in the room should start burning immediately, but it doesn't.
	So we're learning something here.
	Extraordinary.
	The energies we know of, with perhaps the exception of gravity, when they do work in the classical sense, which is what's involved when a person or heavy metal object is moved, they produce heat.
	That's the way the universe we know of works.
	This force does not produce heat, which is contrary to everything we know.
	So basically, we can bear our head in the sand and go, I don't want to know.
	Don't bother me.
	It's too complicated.
	We can take the next step and figure out, if it isn't anything we do know, then what can we develop technology to measure what's going on?
	Well, we can only measure what we know.
	Every instrument, I've got low frequency spectrum analyzers, and air ion counters, and geomagnetometer, all these different things, thermal imaging stuff, and they can only, they're designed to measure what we know.
	You can't develop a machine to measure what we don't know, because we don't know what it is!
	And that's the problem with all of this.
	The one thing that's interesting, faces and places may change after 46 years of research in the field, but the phenomena does not.
	We keep seeing the same things over and over again.
	Wherever we go, we keep running into the same situation.
	It gets down, we can measure the environment.
	Okay, it's through this and this.
	We can measure the people.
	The instruments we have can measure bioelectric fields.
	They're pretty easy to measure.
	Biomagnetic fields are very difficult because they're extremely weak.
	You need superconducting sensors, which are not portable.
	They're not made to be moved around.
	However, among poltergeist agents, we can measure their body's magnetic field because it's pumping out so much more energy than we do know of as compared to a normal person.
	And they usually, people that have these problems, these psychokinetic manifestations on a recurring basis, besides having, you know, temporal lobe epilepsy, and the environment's very strong to irritate their nervous system, they have a very low threshold for dealing with stress.
	And all this combines to produce these results.
	And it's amazing.
	I mean, it'd be like going out and dating girls, and every girl looks the same, but How can they all look the same?
	But they take off a mask.
	We're all different people.
	What we just happen to look alike.
	And that's what we keep running into.
	And so most of them are women, although some are men.
	Some can be young, you know, adolescent, pubescent adolescents.
	Some can be mature adults.
	But the things they have in common stay the same.
	And a lot of times we ask people questions on all investigations.
	We tell them, look, some of the questions are very probing and invasive.
	If you don't want to answer them, don't.
	We ask about medications they've been taking, how long, what dosage, why were they prescribed, family history of epilepsy, and sometimes it's so subtle, they go, no, no, no.
	And then we ask about sleep disorders, and they say, oh yeah, I take something like Klonopin.
	Klonopin is anti-seizure, anti-convulsant.
	They say, you know what's odd?
	When I take the medication, the phenomena stops, but I sleep well.
	I was going to ask if there's any indication that any pharmaceuticals either increase or decrease that ability, and you just sort of answered that.
	Yes, it depends on the individual, but generally speaking, in fact, long ago when I did your shows, people started calling me, people I didn't know all over the country, and it was great because they didn't know anything about what I was doing in detail, and they're telling me, oh, they're taking their medicine for epilepsy.
	When they were taking it, the phenomena stopped, and they stopped taking medication because they didn't like the way it made them feel.
	The seizure would return, as would the phenomena.
	So, again, you know, now, if someone was willing to take the time and spend the money, you could do functional MRI studies or PET studies, positron emission tomography, and we probably could find exactly what part of the brain is mediating these recurrent spontaneous psychokinetic events.
	And I've got this gut feeling in me It says this energy might allow us to go to the stars.
	This could give us technology we can't even begin to imagine, like propulsion.
	You mean locked in our own brains?
	Yep.
	It was no coincidence that the second pilot for the Star Trek TV series, the original, dealt with people who were very gifted psychics.
	And it happened to deal with interstellar travel.
	The more we learn, every time we answer a question, it generates 20 more.
	We answer another one, 20 more.
	Answer another one, 50 more.
	All right, well, all right, let me go down a couple of roads here if I can.
	One of the ones that I've had personal experience with is precognition.
	And don't worry, folks, I'm not going to explain the experience I had again.
	I'm tired of talking about it, but I had an unquestionable A case of precognition, Doctor.
	So I know it's real.
	I absolutely know it's real.
	However, it is a function of a living human brain, as apparently poltergeist activity is, right?
	Right.
	All of this seems to be linked with us living beings at some point.
	In my book and on my website, I tell a great story.
	We were doing all this remote viewing work at UCLA and it was fun, but it got boring because it was easy to do and it was easy to reproduce the results for the most part.
	So we tried something unique.
	Instead of doing real-time remote viewing, how about doing some precognitive remote viewing?
	Let's look ahead in time one week and see who the randomly chosen target would be for the next session one week later.
	Well, you know who they... No one knew.
	It was all random people coming in, randomly chosen.
	So, we put ourselves through our progressive muscular relaxation.
	The lights are off.
	Describe... We're recording everyone's voices.
	Describe the target of the next week.
	We describe... A lot of us start describing a tall, beautiful blonde with blue eyes.
	Describe her clothing.
	Pants are gorgeous.
	And each chair was numbered beneath it.
	Describe the chair she sat in by number.
	Then we describe a big house.
	Hollywood Hill, three stories, and a big baby grand piano.
	That could have been anything.
	Then we start describing a tall man, over 60, handsome, strong, dressed in all black.
	Black shirt, black pants, black boots, black gloves, black hat, black cape, black hat, black sword, black mask.
	We thought, are we losing our minds?
	Okay.
	So the next week, new people come in.
	We never met.
	They were brought in by third parties that had not been in our group for weeks.
	Each person was given a little envelope with a piece of paper in it with a number.
	People sit down.
	We roll dice.
	Okay, open your packets.
	Whoever's number matches the number on the dice, let us know.
	This woman says, oh, it's me.
	And we had forgotten what we said a week earlier.
	I mean, who remembers stuff from a week ago when it's not about your exact life?
	We told the woman, here's the control for the tape recorder.
	Start playing it back.
	If you hear anything that correlates to you, stop it and comment.
	If it doesn't, don't.
	So, she hears the recording.
	We described her perfectly.
	Height, face, hair, figure, and clothing.
	Could have been coincidence.
	We described the house she lived in.
	Could have been coincidence growing up.
	The piano.
	Could have been coincidence.
	But then we get to the tall man, all in black, and she just has hesitation on her part.
	And we didn't even know her name.
	She turns to us and she goes, Do you know who I am?
	And we said, No.
	She said, I'm Tony Williams.
	And we went, And?
	She said, Do you know who?
	No.
	My father is Guy Williams, who played Zorro for Disney.
	Right.
	And she went, wait a minute, when did you make this tape?
	I said, a week ago.
	A week ago?
	I didn't know it was coming here three hours ago.
	And then she was randomly chosen on top of it.
	Wait a minute, I don't get it.
	Neither do we.
	You can't see a future that's not there.
	You're perceiving information.
	What's the source?
	It's not random probability.
	Come on, you never have these occurrences, ever.
	And this is where it gets more interesting.
	There's an idea called implicate order, and it implies, and this is research done at Caltech by a well-known researcher who was relieved of his duties because of what he discovered.
	He spent more than two decades, and he proved the fact, to the best of medical science, that our long-term memories are very likely not stored in our own brain.
	What?
	What?
	They're stored in a remote power field, like a zero-point field, and the way we access them is remotely.
	Why don't we just call it the cloud?
	Yeah, exactly!
	So if this is the way we're designed to function on a regular basis, on a daily basis for our entire life, then what we think is paranormal isn't.
	This is normal.
	We just don't know any better.
	So that means That the information, very likely, of the future already exists.
	Not the events.
	The information.
	Information about the past still exists.
	Like a John Hologram.
	Everything is everywhere.
	Equally distributed.
	Then why can some of us see these things while others cannot?
	Why can some of us race cars while others cannot?
	Why can some of us write well, or do art well, or be an athlete?
	Everyone's got different proclivities, but Precognition poses the biggest threat to our reality because it suggests that we're ignorant.
	There's a lot about going on we don't know.
	Well, all right, here's the thing about my precognitive experience.
	Number one, it was without question precognitive.
	I couldn't stop it.
	It kept coming until I finally paid attention to it.
	And number two, I have never been able to reproduce it.
	I couldn't.
	I did nothing to bring it on.
	I couldn't stop it from coming on.
	And I've never been able to repeat it.
	Now, what do you make out of that?
	Well, no offense, I don't remember what it was.
	I'm sure I've heard talk of it, but it's been a long time.
	But what I'm asking you, did it involve a strong, emotionally dramatic event?
	Um, not particularly.
	Well, it depends.
	All right.
	Okay.
	I'll try and make it real quick.
	Here it is.
	I lived in Santa Barbara, California.
	It was a garden apartment.
	Nothing special about this.
	I had my own car.
	I parked it on the street outside the apartment.
	You could actually open the sliding glass door to the apartment and look out and see the car.
	Or even just, you know, open the curtains and look out and see the car through the window.
	I came home from work one night, sat down, watched the evening news, which I did every night at that time.
	As the news continued, all of a sudden, here it comes, like ocean waves washing over me, the feeling that somebody's going to hit your car.
	Somebody is going to hit your car.
	It was so strong and annoying.
	That I said a bad word, went over there, opened the curtains, looked at my car, it was fine, shut the curtains, went back, sat down, watched the news, here it comes again, like ocean waves crashing over me, someone's gonna hit your car, another bad word, went over, looked at my car, it was fine, back to the news, finally, big crashing waves, get up, someone's about to hit your car, so I walked over, opened the curtains, and Watched as a fellow was going down the sidewalk In front of my apartment.
	He walked on down the sidewalk got into his car, which was located Right parked right in front of mine put it into reverse and hit my car so I Fell down to my knees.
	I was shocked so badly and But I had enough presence of mind to get up, open the sliding door, and say, hey, I saw that.
	He said, I'm stopping.
	It was no big deal.
	But it was, without question, precognitive.
	End of story.
	How important was that car to you?
	Were you a gearhead like myself, or were you just someone who... Yes, I loved my car.
	Strong attachment to it, or mostly?
	Strong attachment, yes.
	Well, there you go.
	You know, we have this thing.
	It's called need relevance.
	Things that are important to us.
	Don't get me wrong.
	There are things in life, Doctor, that are more important to me than a car.
	But yes, I had my attachment to my car.
	Right.
	And so, I mean, the last car I had, every time, days before, a day before something was going to happen to it, I kept dreaming about it.
	I accepted it.
	It was fate.
	I mean, it's Again, the more important these things are to us at an emotional level, the more likely we are to access the information because they stand out.
	If it's boring, it's mundane, who cares?
	But if it grabs our attention because it threatens us, or hurts us, or potentially offers harm, or drastic, dramatic change we don't want, we access it because it's like, wow, what's that?
	Alright, alright.
	Now let me circle back, Doctor.
	We've talked about Precognition, talking about it now, and we've talked about poltergeists.
	Both of these things are a function of a living human brain.
	What I want to ask you now is, your book says Aliens Above, Ghosts Below.
	This is what I'm interested in.
	Let's talk for a moment about ghosts below.
	Is that just a phrase?
	Or, in other words, here's what I'm interested in.
	Is there communication from people who have died?
	Is there communication from, in quotes, the other side?
	Proof of life after death, doctor?
	You couldn't go to the bank and bet on it.
	There's more data collected on UFOs, the real things, than you could go to court and win that there's something flying around our skies for more than a hundred years.
	I don't know about that.
	We don't know what they are and whatever.
	We don't know who they are, we don't know why they're here, but it's going on long before we existed as a culture.
	They keep winning on court in terms of, yes, something strange going on.
	In terms of proving contact with the dead, It's right now we can't, because in science there's something called Ockham's Razor.
	We've sure heard the term.
	It basically implies all things being equal, you go with the simplest explanation.
	So before we assume something is paranormal, we've got to rule everything else out.
	Everything!
	Then we get to the point where we start all over again.
	Start with the most simplistic explanation, paranormally, and then you work your way up to the most outlandish, which of course is that we need to communicate with the dead.
	You know, the sad part is that most of my cases, most of the things that are written about, can be more readily and easily explained as the result of a humanly generated psychokinetic force.
	That doesn't preclude the possibility of discarnate intelligence.
	We've had a few cases that suggest it, but then we find the same thing.
	The geomagnetic field, the people with temporal lobe epilepsy, neurological problems, sleep disorders.
	So the question is, Is there any difference between all of us, or are we not just... You know the story of the three blind men and the elephant, it's been told, where one blind man holds the elephant's leg and grasps it and thinks it's a tree trunk.
	No.
	The other holds the elephant's tail and thinks it's a rope.
	No.
	The third holds the elephant's trunk and thinks it's a hose.
	No.
	Because of the situational awareness, because they're blind, they can't see the elephant, so they don't know what they're touching.
	This is where we are right now.
	Well, you mentioned UFOs, and sure enough, my lines could be full of a million UFO stories, but also, you mentioned ghosts, and my lines could be full of a million ghost stories.
	Now, I guess your answer would have to be, well, they don't really know what they're seeing.
	Well, it's easy to misinterpret things if you don't have a background to properly interpret them.
	It's like if ancient people hundreds of years ago saw a jet flying, they'd freak out because there are no jets.
	They have no way to reference it.
	There's nothing in their collective consciousness that can deal with this because they don't know what it is.
	There have been millions of stories over the centuries, encounters with dead people.
	There were some great books, a great book called Phone Calls from the Dead by D. Scott Rogo and Raymond Bayless.
	Or what about EVPs?
	Right.
	Now, here's the story.
	We've collected a number of those over the years, and most of the time we can explain them as, again, a function of the psychokinetic ability of someone in the environment.
	And we've had cases where You know, what's being said is directly related to one of the persons in the room.
	Or it's the same voice.
	It's the same voice.
	And they're living.
	Well, I don't know.
	I've heard EVPs recorded by adults of children that were nowhere near any recorder.
	Just inexplicable stuff.
	Oh, no, I'm not saying it's someone speaking in the room.
	I'm saying it's all a product of psychokinesis.
	That's the thing is, it's hard to rule out this part because we don't know enough.
	So, again, in all my case files, the only case if I had to make a bet There was one case, and it's in Chapter 1 of my book, it's called the Hollymont case, and it's still active.
	It's been there.
	The house is being renovated, and we got to live there for a couple weeks back in 1976, and it was like being in Disneyland of the dead.
	Constant things going on.
	The owners had seen apparitions.
	we had object movement things appearing disappearing or ports
	uh... disembodied voices we had a news crew kt tv who would chase that of a house
	by flying objects and the newscaster she started freaking out really bad on
	camera and now we discovered there is a body buried beneath the
	house that's ever been exhumed for nineteen twenty three named regina there's
	a tombstone down there
	and uh...
	to work with both it move which are still active move
	They're located a few feet away from the house, intersect a few feet away.
	And there happens to be a shallow river at the house, hydromagnetic forces.
	And to what living brain do you attribute this?
	It could be any one of us that are there.
	It's not only one person.
	The problem is you'd have to bring one person in at a time and have them be there alone to measure the environment in them.
	Or it may not be a living brain.
	Now, here's another one for you to tackle, and that is the unending, continuing stories of NDEs, near-death experiences, in which people do come back and relate things they could not possibly know that went on during the attempt to revive them, or whatever it was, and they were flatlined dead.
	Right.
	Exactly.
	And any thoughts on that?
	Well, I mean, we know of out-of-body experiences, and I suspect that for most of these cases, it's an externalization of consciousness.
	And even somehow their body hasn't decayed enough where there's brain damage when they reawaken.
	But we know that people can leave their bodies and perceive things.
	We do.
	That's very clearly established.
	The question is, what is it that leaves your body?
	Oh, we don't know.
	Your body's still there.
	The heart's beating, you know.
	But if you go flatline for too long and the heart stops, you do brain damage due to oxygen deprivation.
	Right.
	It's complicated here.
	And the question is, if we are all linked to this cloud, to this remote power field, and that's where all of our information resides, that means that there may not be any difference between us and people that have passed away.
	It may all be the same thing.
	And we're just interpreting it a certain way because this is all we're able to do right now.
	Well, does what you just said allow for the possibility that after you die there is a continuation in some form that we cannot conceive of right now?
	Exactly.
	I believe that we know energy can't be created or destroyed.
	It can be changed from one form to another.
	I don't think, personally, we begin at birth, and I don't think we end at death.
	I think there's a transition to what I don't know from what we know.
	We're corporeal beings in a shell here, basically.
	But as far as the details of that, we just don't know.
	And I've had out-of-body experiences when I was younger, really incredible experiences.
	And I had one experience where it was a girl I was involved with where I We kept having dreams about each other.
	We weren't even together.
	We compared notes.
	They were the same.
	We checked the notes out, and they turned out to be quite accurate for historical events long before we were born.
	What was that?
	You're accessing information remotely.
	There is no time.
	There is no space.
	And my book gets into this.
	You're dealing with information.
	Information is described basically paranormally by where it appears to come from, from where you are when you perceive it.
	If the information comes from the past, well, that's retrocognition.
	If it comes from the future, it's pre-cognition.
	If it comes from the present, it's either telepathy or clairvoyance, which is what remote viewing is, basically.
	The question is, is it any different?
	No, it's probably all the same.
	We just have to call it something to differentiate it from itself.
	I understand you actually wrote some of the baselines for remote viewers.
	Is that true?
	Yes.
	Basically, it was simple learning paradigms.
	This purpose was to take normal, healthy people who aren't in psychotherapy or analysis, who aren't using drugs, and see if you could take them and train them to reliably access remote information.
	All right.
	Doctor, hold on.
	Relax.
	I'm going to give you a little extra break because I want to allow the audience to join in this conversation.
	There's more to come, but I do want them to join in.
	So our public telephone number.
	Is area code 952.
	225-5278, that's how you can reach us and ask Dr. Taff a question.
	Incredible stuff.
	Once again, area code 952-225-5278.
	So if you'd like to be part of the conversation, that's one way.
	Another way is by, well, I don't know, if you've got an Apple phone or whatever kind of smartphone you've got.
	Add us.
	Get Skype.
	Skype is free.
	It's wonderful.
	You download Skype, put it on your phone, and then add us.
	If you're in North America, we are MITD51.
	MITD51.
	Midnight in the desert.
	MITD51.
	If you're outside North America, we have a special Skype for just you.
	MITD51.
	That's M-I-T-D-5-5.
	So, love to have you join in the conversation.
	We're going to take a break and then we'll be back with Dr.
	Barry Taff.
	And, uh, things that we just can't explain, I guess.
	I'm Art Bell, and you're listening to Midnight in the Desert.
	Dark Matter Network News.
	I'm Amy Martin.
	A Halloween prop lying face down on a lawn in Detroit has prompted a 911 call this week when authorities thought that someone had been brutally attacked.
	The homeowner had police show up to her door expecting to respond to a potential murder, but the woman told police that she'd used the prop for an annual prank.
	The woman then revealed that she would move the prop around her yard every morning to spoof unsuspecting pastors by, observing their horror while she drinks her coffee during the days leading up to Halloween.
	The large scarecrow-like body, featuring a pair of work overalls stuffed into old shoes, appears to unsuspecting witnesses as a man lying face down with a pillowcase wrapped over his head.
	One person had even attempted to perform CPR on the prop this year.
	She told Detroit News, While authorities may be unenthused, it's a tradition that she's carried on for several years to celebrate her husband's birthday, and she doesn't plan on stopping it anytime soon.
	A man has captured images of what he describes as a prehistoric bird with an alien entity in skies over Southern California.
	According to CryptozoologyNews.com, C. Wilson, who didn't reveal his exact location in the Golden State, says he spots different anomalies including what he believes to be creatures almost every month.
	He writes, It's difficult to see these objects when going several thousand miles per hour.
	For some reason, they engage me.
	He also claims to regularly witness flying orbs and rods with different animals appearing next to these UFOs in the skies.
	He also writes, The red orb follows me with one turkey vulture that always hangs with it.
	The chrome orb has 33 seagulls that hang with it, and the blue orb has nine red-tailed hawks that also hang with it.
	The flying rods are intelligent and not rods at all.
	One image appears to depict what some have described as a pterosaur, and the other appears to be a four-legged hot dog flying above the clouds.
	He finally writes, I have a gift to catch these critters and UFOs and aliens as they fly by me.
	Follow me, touch me, and sometimes I hear my name.
	They are intelligent.
	I see if they can hear me, which they can.
	I can prove that, and most important, I can prove that we are being engaged.
	Read more about this story on CryptozoologyNews.com A town in Connecticut has resurrected a fall tradition.
	After an elementary school decided to cancel Halloween, outraged parents and children stood up to defend the holiday.
	The school claims that the initial decision to cancel festivities came from wanting to cater to children and families who felt that the holiday was either religiously or culturally offensive.
	The school district has since reversed its decision as they felt that the outcry over canceled activities had become a distraction.
	Have a strange story or a news tip?
	Email amy at artbell.com.
	This has been Amy Martin for Dark Matter Network News.
	Hi, everybody.
	My guest is Dr. Barry Taft.
	We are talking of things that, uh, well...
	are inexplicable. They still cannot be explained. We can make pretty good, decent, educated
	guests at them. Guests is at them, but that's about it.
	Doctor, a couple of other items before we go to the phones. I know a lot of people have
	experiences that they would like to ask you about. But, abductions.
	I want to cover a few areas here that we haven't really talked about.
	Abductions, for example.
	Do you think, are you convinced, or have you been convinced, that abductions are the real thing?
	In some cases, they're very real.
	I don't believe everything everyone tells me or reads about, but there are some really good cases out there that, in my opinion, stand up because of some intriguing evidence that's been collected.
	This is not recent.
	I mean, there's good evidence that abductions may go back a very long ways in time.
	I know.
	We might have misinterpreted them.
	And what's even more extraordinary, Art, is that we have cases that began as an abduction that had paranormal fallout, or began as paranormal experiences and had an abduction.
	Okay, let me run something by you that's kind of in the news because it got started here.
	I interviewed Dr. David Jacobs and others, I might add, who are making claims that they believe and can prove That there are half-humans, humans that have been genetically altered during abductions, and that there is, in essence, an invasion underway, and we are slowly being changed as humans, and we are being invaded by our changed selves, would be a way to put it, I guess.
	I've read about that.
	I've read Dr. Jacobs' books.
	He's an excellent writer.
	I don't know I necessarily subscribe to his theories and conclusions about what's going on.
	I'm not saying it's impossible or it can't happen or it shouldn't or wouldn't.
	It just sounds too much like an episode of The Invaders or Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
	Well, it does.
	Yeah, and what I suspect is... But I would say, let me add, it could very well be true.
	I mean, if you were going to invade a planet, a populated planet full of gun-toting people, I might add, you might well want to do it very subtly, very slowly.
	And over a very long period of time, and if you had the ability to genetically modify, I can't think of a better way to do it.
	If you give it some serious thought, it does make sense.
	Well, we know for a fact, there's more than one race that's been visiting Earth for a very long time.
	And there's substantial evidence, which is discussed in my book, That we, meaning the human race, might be the result of their interference in normal evolution here.
	And it's discussed in depth in my book.
	Leonard Springfield, a lot of his bio, bought everything he ever wrote, and some really good evidence collected, which I republished in my book, and I all referenced appropriately.
	And one of my conclusions at this point is that whoever these beings are, they may know something about our future we don't.
	Maybe we're not going to survive here, and they do want to replace us.
	Or maybe they want to take Our genetic makeup, take it to another star system and build another race with it.
	Maybe.
	I don't know how, what your, you know, this kind of crosses over into the political realm, and I don't really want to do that, but there is, I think, substantial science showing that our planet is in really, really, really serious trouble, and if we don't modify our behavior Or perhaps it's time for a statement that it's too late to modify our behavior to change what's going to happen.
	And so for that reason, they might be interfering.
	Does that touch a nerve?
	I've read about stuff like that.
	I've heard people discuss it.
	To be honest with you, I'm more worried about the fact that we can't trust our government to tell us the truth about anything anymore.
	Oh, I know.
	Going back decades, it's nothing new.
	Here's the whole thing.
	This is in my book and in my website.
	If we are the result of someone else's experiment, then they're not from Earth.
	That means we have an inconceivable future and an unimaginable past and an unimaginable future.
	It throws into question everything about the human race.
	It kind of messes up religion big time.
	And the last thing we need on Earth right now Amongst all the insanity going on is another reason for people to go nuts.
	So if you were in charge of the disclosure of such volatile, earth-shaking information that would basically disenfranchise all of us, would you do it?
	To please a few, knowing that the end result might be utter chaos, or would you not do it?
	Hold it back.
	We don't need more problems.
	What would you do?
	If I was in charge of... If you were the one that could flip the switch and say, make the disclosure, let the whole world know about this, what would you do?
	Would you risk humanity to bring this to the public, or would you say, no, it's too dangerous, let's keep a lid on it?
	Well, you're probably not going to like my answer.
	I think that I would say, it is too dangerous, let's keep a lid on it.
	No, that's what most normal, rational, intelligent people would say.
	In the end, what good would it serve?
	I mean, not that I wouldn't like this disclosure.
	I think we need it in the near future.
	It might be catastrophic and be the most destabilizing of a provision ever given to us.
	In the end, it would probably help us because we'd all realize we're all one people.
	I don't care where you're from, what your color is, what you look, we're all the same.
	We all breathe the same air and eat food.
	We all get old and eventually die, so we're all going through that.
	But I just think in the short term, the chaos could be horrendous.
	There's a good deal of suggestive evidence out there, and I guess some of this is on my website, that the real reason JFK was killed wasn't for whatever people suspect.
	It might have been he was about to disclose the most closely guarded secret on Earth.
	He might have been.
	All right, I do have one more really big question for you, and then I guess we'll try and dive into the phone lines.
	And by the way, I forgot to mention, I do now have a first-time caller line, which is area code 775-285-5800.
	Area code 775-285-5800.
	So if you have never called the show, that's what it means.
	You're a first-time caller.
	Area code 775-285-5800.
	Doctor, what do you know about a secret space program?
	Well, I've read and listened.
	I've read every book Richard Dolan has written.
	I've talked with him on numerous occasions.
	He was on my show a couple of years ago.
	I had a brief podcast show.
	And I've seen all his interviews online.
	I believe he's telling the truth.
	I believe there's evidence supporting the fact we have a secret space program.
	It's well beyond anything NASA is willing to discuss.
	We may have crewed starships, not like the Starship Enterprise.
	We may have reverse-engineered UFOs, developed something equivalent to warp drive, and before Ben Rich died, the ex-head of Lockheed Skunkworth, he was at UCLA Alumni Engineering in the early 90s giving a talk.
	And he said some great things that's been replayed over and over.
	One, he said, we have things flying that would make George Lucas drool.
	We now know how to take E.T.
	home in real time.
	And he said, then afterwards, when the crowd panned out, I went up to him and I talked to him.
	I said, the technology you speak of, did you develop it or did you acquire it?
	He goes, what do you think?
	I think the latter.
	He goes, you might be right.
	Will this stuff ever be released to the public?
	He goes, how old are you?
	I was in my early 40s then.
	He goes, no, it's not going to happen.
	Why?
	Because it's world changing.
	All right.
	World changing is right.
	And here's the problem I have with it.
	If we had a drive of the type you talked about, so we could have a secret space program, so we're going to other star systems doing all kinds of wild things, this drive would be an energy source That would yank us out of this horrid, horrid problem we have right now, burning fossil fuels and endangering the future of the planet, period.
	And they would be withholding that from us for what?
	Well, the same reason Westinghouse, every time someone tries to develop Tesla's technology and scale it up to make it useful for power generation applications, Westinghouse puts a cease and desist order in and stops them.
	There's a lot of people, there's trillions of dollars wrapped up in petrochemical energy.
	It runs the Earth.
	And when we do run out, who knows how long it'll be, they'll say, oh, look what we just found.
	Look, oh look, here it is.
	I have a website of a blog called Building the Warp Drive Engine.
	It goes into depth on what's been done.
	When I talk some theories and suggestions, it talks about Richard Dolan.
	I give reference to one of his online.
	You can see it on YouTube.
	It's a great Let's go to the phones.
	I know a lot of people want to talk to you.
	Let's go all the way to, I think, Hilo, Hawaii.
	You're on the air.
	in the fall of 2011.
	And it doesn't get any better than Richard Olin.
	It doesn't.
	And his collection of information is very impressive.
	He makes a great point, and he can support it with facts.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Let's go to the phones.
	I know a lot of people want to talk to you.
	Let's go all the way to, I think, Hilo, Hawaii.
	You're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Art, is that you?
	That's me.
	Yes, sir.
	Oh, OK.
	Well, my name is Ricardo.
	OK.
	I had a question.
	Like, is consciousness OK?
	So can we actually become more conscious without alien intervention?
	I mean, there's all these theories you guys were discussing where, you know, aliens could be a part of getting a part of like our genetic changes and things along those lines.
	Is it just possible?
	that we are actually becoming more conscious, where we're actually seeing the detriment
	of what our government has done, what people have done to each other, where we're actually
	good people and we're just being more conscious and there's no alien explanation involved.
	You know what I mean?
	Doctor?
	It's a complicated question he asks, and there is a simple answer, but I think we're seeing,
	finally seeing through the B.S. Hayes that's been put up for decades.
	We're realizing we can't trust the words coming out of the mouths of politicians, and they all have ulterior motives and reasons.
	I don't, for one instant, even doubt that.
	So are you saying that it's not possible?
	Because, I mean, again, you're going back to government things.
	Well, no.
	I agree.
	We're becoming more aware, consciously and otherwise, because it's an extension of actually mass media and culture.
	People can finally access information by just sitting in front of a screen.
	They don't have to go to a library and spend days or months or years going through books.
	Exactly.
	Or where?
	If we make huge strides at recognizing that we're all connected.
	I mean, we're all, we're all created from this energy that connects all of us.
	So, I mean, that's consciousness.
	That's consciousness just becoming greater and greater.
	Like, can we just recognize that things kind of, you know, time-wise, time is a tricky thing, so let's not get into it because that would take forever.
	But consciously, we are actually one living energy between all living things.
	Between trees, earth, plants, everything that's living.
	And in this consciousness, there is this growth that occurs simply because of who we are.
	It has nothing to do with some outside force.
	The government can do what it's going to do.
	People are going to do what they're going to do.
	But in this consciousness, in what consciousness is, we are actually growing as people.
	Is that possible or does it have to be some sort of Outside alien influence that allows us, I feel like that takes away our power as people, honestly.
	Well, I don't think that aliens are affecting our consciousness.
	I mean, they can, whatever these things are, clearly have manipulated our perceptual abilities and ability to understand, but I think we are evolving and changing much more rapidly now because of our exposure to information based on what we're doing, not based on what aliens are doing.
	And maybe this is a concern, or maybe we are growing in a way, but our proclivities haven't really changed.
	They've just grown along with us.
	All right, brother.
	Thank you very much.
	I appreciate it.
	You guys are awesome.
	Art, I love you, man.
	You're great.
	Thank you, buddy.
	Take care.
	That's Hilo, Hawaii.
	First time caller line, again, area code 775-285-5800.
	Love hearing from people for the first time.
	It's exciting, actually.
	Let's go to Skype and Kurt.
	Hello, Kurt.
	Hi.
	Hi, Mr. Bell.
	Hi.
	I heard your car story, where you saw somebody hit your car.
	I had something similar happen to me back in 96.
	I was living in downtown Phoenix on the top floor of this apartment complex, and all of a sudden, dead asleep, must have been 2, 3, 4 in the morning, just got up out of bed, and walked toward the door and I just had to go outside and I went outside and I lived right on the corner of the top floor and looked down at my truck and there were these two idiots trying to take my tires off my truck and I hollered down at them that I'm calling the police and I got a gun and all that and boy they took off like nobody's business but I went down there all the
	All the lug bolts were off and one of the, they even left a jack there because... Well, let me ask, did you have this overwhelming feeling that something like this was going on?
	I just know that when I woke up, I was almost like I was robotic, or I just had to go outside.
	I don't know.
	I just had to go outside, and as soon as I did, if I would have been five minutes later, my tires would have been gone.
	Sure, sure.
	But that happened.
	Just the story.
	I don't have any questions.
	I just want to let you all know that that really did happen, too.
	Oh, I believe you.
	I believe you, Kurt.
	Thank you very much.
	I appreciate the call.
	And so there you go, Doctor, another one.
	You could endlessly hear stories like that.
	So precognition is absolutely real.
	I don't know what triggers it, and I wish I did.
	I wish I could continually do it.
	I'd be rich.
	What thing seems, it seems to have relevance emotionally to us.
	So, you really love your car, and my God, you don't want this thing stolen or destroyed, and you have this passion, what's going on, and you're, it'd be like if you were married, and why, you don't want someone to hurt your wife or take your wife away.
	It's that same bonding, it may not appear like it.
	Look, I, I, it don't...
	I hate that phrase, I love my car.
	I liked my car.
	It served a useful function, but I wasn't like a lot of people.
	I wasn't a car nut.
	I didn't go out and go, oh car, car, I love you.
	You know, I wasn't like that with my car.
	It's just a thing.
	So I don't want to overblow it.
	It might have, even though it may not be a conscious thing, you know, like we all go out and buy certain cars for certain needs.
	We like the way it looks, the way it feels, the way it drives, the way it sounds.
	Versus just buying any piece of junk we're in front of our eyes.
	Now my 98 Firebird Trans Am, I love that.
	It's a great car.
	I used to have it for a Trans Am a long time ago.
	But this car was just a car, and I can't say that I was in love with it, but nevertheless, here came this precognitive feeling, and It just was not possible to ignore.
	It was so strong, I don't know what I could compare it to.
	It was just overwhelming.
	Let me give you another story about a pre-technician and me that dealt with a car.
	This is 1970.
	I was dating a girl in college, upper division college, named Sharon.
	We got along really well, and suddenly the dreams came.
	In the dream, I'm in the back seat of a car.
	I see her in the passenger seat.
	It was Sharon.
	I saw someone driving, but I couldn't tell if it was me.
	I couldn't even see the dashboard of the car.
	So we turned down the street to go to our home, which was on a cul-de-sac.
	We turned down a much larger car, comes out, hits his head on the glass, there's fire.
	And I see Sharon's body, unconscious, bloody.
	I'm going, oh no.
	And the dream happened once and twice and over and over.
	And I'm going, this isn't good.
	So I said, look, I'm going to have to tell Sharon.
	I told her.
	And she was angry at me.
	When I told her I can't see anymore, not for the reasons I would suspect that it scared
	her, she thought I was making it up because I didn't want to drive all the way out to
	see her.
	I said, look, the whole purpose is if we're dead, we're not doing anyone any good.
	She got very angry.
	I said, I don't blame her.
	And she did.
	Relationship ended.
	And then time went by.
	She started dating someone else.
	Well, everything happened that I saw, except he was killed.
	She was badly injured.
	I just put myself, my ego put me in the driver's seat.
	I didn't change a damn thing.
	Good Lord.
	And this is the question is the reason I dreamt about it was because it was relevant to me
	and my emotions.
	Okay, let me ask this.
	In the dreams that you had, you were part of the dream when you had them, correct?
	I was in the backseat of the car.
	Usually when I'm thinking of a girl in the backseat, we're both in the backseat.
	But anyway, you were in the backseat of the car.
	You were part of that dream.
	But when that didn't happen, an alternative future happened with somebody else, and the dream came absolutely true.
	Right.
	It was my own ego putting me in the driver's seat.
	I thought, oh my God, it's me I'm driving because they're sharing.
	I never saw me.
	I assumed it was me.
	I couldn't tell who it was.
	I couldn't see the person's face at all.
	So I thought it must be me because I'm dating this woman.
	So if I don't date her anymore, the problem will be solved.
	I was wrong.
	Okay, gotcha.
	All right, Doctor.
	A short two-minute break.
	A lot of people want to talk to you.
	Dr. Barry Taft is my guest.
	He's been researching Paranormal stuff.
	Aliens Above, Ghosts Below.
	You've got to love the name of that book.
	Aliens Above, Ghosts Below.
	And we'll tell you more about the website and so forth as we move along.
	All right, Doctor, we're sort of into a lot of calls here.
	So you ready?
	Sure.
	All right.
	Let's go to a first time caller in Wisconsin.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi there.
	This is Luke in Stevens Point.
	I'm calling tonight because I had a pretty interesting sighting tonight, actually.
	Oh?
	More specifically, it was three circles together that formed a rectangular shape.
	I've never seen anything like it on film or anything.
	Well, slow up for a second.
	Hold on.
	You had this sighting.
	This was in the sky.
	Oh, this was big, like close.
	It was pretty cool.
	Okay.
	You're describing a craft?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	It was very, it flew across the sky.
	Not a sound, very fast.
	This is my third fighting in like five years too, which relates to my question.
	Okay.
	Um, my question is, is I, more specific to like, I know, I realize, you know, sightings and abduction, you know, the connection with abduction and all that, but why does it seem that sometimes like
	They're almost putting on a show for people.
	It's Steven Greer, I mean, his group and like, you know, I'm not the only person.
	We're going to have Steven on pretty soon, actually.
	I don't want to give the date, but soon.
	You're right, though.
	So, Doctor, he said sometimes it seems like they're putting on a show.
	And I agree with him.
	Sometimes it does.
	Comments?
	Yes.
	Oh, yeah.
	I've been going back to the last 45 to 50 years.
	Some of these events are spectacular.
	I mean, there's the Phoenix Lights back in the 90s.
	There have been other displays, which I'm sure you can look at.
	They're well known.
	They're up on YouTube.
	When you have a triangular craft, I'm a little concerned that it may not necessarily be alien, because Lockheed Martin has the TR-3B.
	Which is doesn't propel itself normally has a magnetic disruptor engine called magnetoplasma drive.
	This is discussed on my website.
	And it neutralizes like more than 90% of the inertia of the vehicle, which means very little energy can make it move very quickly and do things other vehicles can't and it's completely silent.
	Alright, I'm out of the story relating thing, but I certainly have my own sighting of a monstrous triangular craft.
	And to prevent me from going on, Al, you're on the air on Skype.
	Hi.
	Hi there.
	Okay, so I just had a thought.
	So, regarding EVPs, for example, I've recorded my own, and it was out of a child, a very high quality EVP, a couple in one session, and I've heard many others which seem to be real.
	My question is, I haven't seen today any compelling evidence, any video evidence of poltergeist activities throwing things across the room.
	I would love to see that, and if, you know, these news stories of your guests saying that reporters visiting these haunted houses and witnessing this stuff, has any of it been recorded?
	And if not, could it be that these entities don't want us to observe them visually for whatever reason?
	You know, Collar, let me say something quickly.
	I'm 70 years old.
	I've had a few that, you know, of what I would describe as paranormal experiences, but that's over a span of 70 years.
	Now, what are the odds of a camera crew going out and catching, let us say, a frying pan going across the room, as Dr. Taff explained a little while ago?
	Odds of that?
	About a gazillion to one.
	But then why are EVPs so much more common, then?
	Good question.
	Doctor?
	Well, I mean, first of all, EVPs, you know, the whole point is you don't have to sit around and wait.
	You do the recording and then play it back.
	So it's more at your discretion of when you're going to do it.
	You know, when you go out and investigate cases of haltings or poltergeists, whatever you want to call them, the chance of you actually being there when something happens and recording it to document it is astronomical.
	I've had thousands of cases.
	You know, we measure interesting things, we measure the people, we measure the environment, we ask a lot of probing medical questions, and we come to interesting conclusions, but the chance of us actually seeing it happen and have the camera aimed at the right place at the right time is astronomical!
	And that's why when you have these silly shows that every week they catch stuff, I'm going, come on!
	It's like, how many times can you win the lottery in a row?
	I have one more question.
	Has the guest ever heard of John Hutchinson, the Canadian physicist?
	He recently, last I heard, using his equipment, opened up some sort of portal where he claims that he and his partner saw shadow people.
	Really?
	Yes.
	All right.
	Do me a favor, caller, before you go, and then we'll address your question.
	If you have really good EVPs, send them to me.
	Would you... I will.
	Actually, my friends are musicians, and they digitized it from cassette to high-quality digital for me.
	I got very lucky.
	Excellent.
	All right, please send them along.
	I'll play them Halloween night.
	In fact, that goes for all of you.
	Artbell at KNYE.com.
	Artbell at KNYE.com.
	I would love, I would love to have them.
	So thank you very much.
	I'll look forward to that.
	Doctor?
	Yes, I know of what you said.
	I've seen videos of things that have happened.
	The problem is, even though what he's doing is amazing, and some of the results are amazing, he doesn't keep or hasn't kept really great notes.
	He can't replicate what he's doing all the time, which is problematic.
	The question is, is he creating an electromagnetic environment that causes these effects to occur, or is he able to change the environment in such a way to allow it to occur?
	And he doesn't keep notes.
	He doesn't keep electrons.
	What he's doing, so he can't reproduce it all the time.
	Right.
	Which is the problem with all of this.
	If this stuff could be reproduced in a lab all the time, we wouldn't call it paranormal.
	All right, so were you referring to Hutchinson?
	Yes, Hutchinson.
	Okay, all right.
	I've seen some stuff written, and I've seen some of the videos linked to him, and they're fascinating, but you know, you can't do them all the time, so it's like, okay, well, where do we go?
	We go to Anchorage, Alaska right now.
	Hi, you're on Midnight.
	Thanks, Art.
	Again, a great show.
	The problem I have is that you've gone so many places that I'm confused and nearly crippled, but I'm going to try, okay?
	First of all, I want to share with you the smoking experience.
	I smoked for 30 years and quit, and I think I had some kind of intervention, and just for what it's worth, I don't think you have a clue why you smoke, but If you saw what happened to me, I think at that time then you'd understand.
	Moving on, your listening audience, along with the doctor, needs to look at ECAT.com.
	I think they've discovered a new form of fusion that's breaking the known laws of physics.
	This is tremendously big.
	There are all kinds of people working on fusion engines right now.
	You're aware of that, right?
	Well, I am, but in staying focused, it isn't me, I'm the messenger.
	I've been tracking this now for three years, but if you'll just check out the site and make your own determinations, I can take you in a more depth place, but it's not, it's LER, Low Energy Nuclear Reaction, but the players in this are very large, and I've been tracking, just check it out and come to your own conclusion.
	We think it's going to breach in March, and our world is about to see an evolutionary leap in mankind's understanding of energy.
	Now, setting that aside, going back to Mr. Taft, some of your comments here... Dr. Taft, yes.
	Dr. Taft, I'm going to see if I can't wrap my mind around this, and then you can learn me up and put me back on course, and boy, I'm going to hesitate talking about UFOs, and I'd love to, but I'm going to hesitate.
	It seems to me that what you're suggesting to me, I think I heard a long time ago, and that is that everything is the consequence of competing thoughts.
	Everything.
	Your hand, we understand, is the product of a competing thought.
	That thought is in a state of near energy without mass, and it has intelligence.
	The difficulty with that energy is it has to consume to maintain its energy disposition.
	And if that's the case, what you're really talking about is a form of energy which seeks to find, and please help me through this, It's your fault I'm in this standpoint.
	It seeks to find a relevant state of harmony, which then defines its state of being, which gives us an understanding as to how vast the wonders of it all is.
	And if that is the case, then we would be a mere amoeba on the floor of a jungle floor, given all the creatures in there.
	We would be nearly insignificant But, which takes you to the next step, like a puzzle.
	Okay, well, we don't have a lot of time here, so if you have a question that evolves from this.
	The real mystery would be, and I'll shut this down, the real mystery would be who's holding the order of all of these manifestations that we call poltergeists and UFOs and humans and animals and plants and states of being.
	I hope that wasn't too complex.
	It's a great show again, Art.
	All right.
	Well, thank you very much.
	I'm not sure that I got all of that, Doctor.
	Maybe you did.
	The best thing I could say was the energies we know of in the universe, and there's only four types of energies we know of, are all exothermic.
	They emit heat.
	Right.
	Whatever this force is that is involved with the paranormal, not that mediates it with us, but the actual energy itself appears to be endothermic.
	Right.
	And again, there's nothing else we know of like that.
	There have been discussions.
	I remember the guy who was funding a fusion reactor a couple decades ago, Bob Guccione or something like that, and all these things about building a gigawatt-class small fusion reactor.
	Nothing was ever built or tested or developed.
	There's all this stuff going on.
	I know that up at Novosibirsk, up at Lawrence Livermore, they were doing experiments.
	It's inertial confinement fusion.
	They fired, you know, terawatt or petawatt class lasers to compress deuterium and tritium to produce that fusion.
	And when they're doing this, they're finding energy coming in from sources they don't know where it's coming from, like another dimension.
	They pretty much stopped doing the work because they ran out of money.
	But there's evidence that there's stuff out there in other levels of reality we're not aware of yet.
	And we may be seeing, this is the first indication of it in the world we live in every day, that there's a force of nature that can do incredible things.
	Some of us can unconsciously mediate it.
	And if we can do that, what can't we do?
	All right, well, here's what I would say.
	Back in the 90s, when I was doing talk radio, and up through the early 2000s, I wasn't hearing people describing engines that they were working on that would get us not just off the planet, Doctor, but to other stars.
	And I'm hearing now, in this year, And this time, all kinds of people working on these engines that will get us off the planet, and I mean really off the planet.
	And there's so many people working on it, it's like there's got to be something going on, because there are a lot of people working on these engines, various kinds of engines.
	I don't want to say fusion, because propulsion can be produced in many ways.
	There are many people working.
	When I discuss on my website about building a warm drive engine, it has nothing to do with, pretty much, with fusion.
	It's using compressed mercury, isobutyl-condensate plasmas that are rotated at high speed, and they induce inertial torque field and frame dragging, and they can manipulate space.
	Yep, I'm hearing all about that.
	Robert, you're on the air with my guest.
	Hi.
	Hi, how are you?
	I was late coming to the show tonight.
	I heard what sounded like... Okay, again, you don't have a good connection, Robert.
	Can you hear me?
	I hear you, but you're kind of going in and out.
	Get real close to the mic.
	Okay, I'm as close as I can get.
	Okay, give it a try.
	I think at the end of what sounded like the I'm sorry, Robert.
	We're just not going to be able to get what you're saying.
	I'm terribly sorry.
	But we've got to be able to understand the question.
	Lakeport, California.
	Hi.
	Yes.
	Good evening.
	It's Adrian Vance.
	Yes, sir.
	And you, you know, we used to talk when I was at KDWN.
	Yes, sir.
	Yeah.
	Anyway, there's evidence for this cloud theory that you may have of human intelligence.
	There was a woman who died recently in India who was a mathematician who did the 23rd root of a 201-digit number in 50 seconds, and it took UNIVAC 62 seconds.
	And the only way this would be possible would be if this problem had been solved somewhere and that there's like a library of all these things somewhere in space, you know what I mean?
	Well, they used to call that the Akashic Records, long ago.
	Now, I mean, I wouldn't describe it as holographic space-time, where information is equally distributed anywhere.
	Everything is everywhere, informationally speaking.
	By the way, Mr. Vance, were you ever the West Coast editor of Popular Photography?
	Yes, I was, yes.
	And, Adrian, I've known you for more than 40 years.
	Yes, right, yeah.
	You were my chemistry teacher at high school, remember?
	That is correct, that is correct.
	Wow!
	It's amazing!
	You analyzed our picture entity photo for popular photography back in 1976.
	Really?
	Wow!
	Okay, well then let me ask, you analyzed that photograph, we've extensively been talking about that photograph, what did you conclude?
	Well, I concluded that it probably was not a fake.
	But beyond that, I really could not tell very much.
	It was so strange.
	I said, yeah, I said in the piece in the magazine, that it looked to me like it was authentic, but I could not explain.
	You know, it was just so strange that I had no explanation for it.
	Yeah, we gave him the negative, he examined it, and he said, I remember you said that the lens of an SLR camera would prohibit such an image from occurring, and you said you have no idea what made this.
	But the negative was untouched, there was no alteration of the negative.
	Remarkable.
	If I may ask, since you're an expert in this area, how do you make a determination about whether something is real or fake?
	Well, there are methods that you can use in examining the image under a microscope and so forth, and you see whether or not images appear to be layered.
	But an awful lot of it is just intuition.
	You know, if you are used to producing it, I was in the business of making, you know, special effects, fake images.
	So when you do that, you learn how these things Look, yeah, well, how they ultimately look on film.
	And they have a certain characteristic, their edges and so forth, that you look for.
	Well, when you look at a picture where there's a question and you don't see that kind of Okay, well you mentioned a negative, so obviously it was on film, it was quite a while ago, I would imagine much harder to take.
	We live in an era now where, I don't know if you've been to the movies lately, but they can do things that are as real as real.
	Well, I'll tell you, photo analysis is over as far as authentication is concerned, because the digital things, as you say, the CGI work is just simply so incredible.
	There's no way that you can say with any authority that it's fake.
	Exactly.
	So we live, it's kind of too bad, it's kind of a shame, because there was a day when you could say, ah, it's a fake, and you could prove it's a fake, and now, What do we do now?
	Well, I'll tell you, Art, I have an idea about the whole UFO thing.
	I've written a couple of books about UFOs, but the idea that I have is that these things are not really from outer space.
	They are from another time.
	It's as good a guess, frankly, unless you want to enlarge on how you know that.
	It's as good a guess as another planet or another system.
	Well, it would take me a while to lay it all out, but I think I have a very good hypothesis for it.
	All right, well, thank you for the call.
	It's been wonderful having you on, and Dr. Taff.
	Wow, unbelievable.
	Vader and Vader will never forget his name, ever.
	Well, all right, take on what he said.
	Now, he said UFOs could be from another time, and couldn't they as easily be from another time?
	Well, if you're able to warp space and time to transit from one star to another, you are moving through time, in one sense.
	Okay, but I think he had a... I mean, there's stuff about the Rensselaer Forest case, you know, Bentwater's thing.
	Oh, yes.
	One of the things came out where they're suggesting that the information suggests that the vehicles that landed were from our future and they were doing things to help us survive.
	It's, you know, that's the latest stuff I've seen on some shows.
	I don't know, it's intriguing, it's interesting.
	Doesn't mean it's real, doesn't mean... I know that one of the guys touched a vehicle and it seems to have put some stuff in his head, if that's what he believes.
	Some kind of induction process.
	But, you know, beyond all that, I mean, I will never forget Adrian Vance's name, ever.
	It's just, I remember in the lab one day, Dr. Moss calls from the office below.
	She said, Barry, come down.
	Someone wants to meet you.
	I walked out.
	There's Adrian Vance.
	I'll never forget his name.
	My goodness, isn't that amazing?
	Flipska, hello, you're on the air.
	Hello Art, hello doctor.
	Hi.
	I have a question for the doctor.
	What is the scariest thing you have experienced?
	Again, we're having trouble with your connection as well, Flipska.
	What are you on?
	I'm on a smartphone, Skype.
	Okay, take us off speakerphone please.
	You must be on speakerphone.
	It's not a decent connection.
	Okay, it's a very bad connection, Flipsky.
	Okay, let me try again.
	Alright, well I don't know... The doctor has experience.
	No, you're not, you're not, we can't discern what you're saying.
	Alright, well you got better at the end there.
	I don't know what people are doing that they can't... Listen.
	Lesson here.
	Don't use speakerphones.
	Never, never use speakerphones.
	Especially when you call a radio show.
	And definitely do not use, you know, a little earpiece, a Bluetooth earpiece.
	That's also death on a stick.
	Let's go to here and say, hi, you're on the air.
	Hello?
	Going once, going twice, and gone.
	You, instead, are on the air in Arizona somewhere.
	Hello?
	Hello?
	Yes, sir.
	I just wanted to speak to the doctor.
	I had an experience many years ago, and I've never had anybody explain to me what this was.
	I was dating a girl.
	We were out.
	We came back to her house, brought fast food.
	She went outside.
	And I'm sitting there on a couch and literally the bag turned sideways.
	The hamburger comes out of the bag in front of me and starts to unwrap.
	And I asked her about it.
	She goes, oh, that's Bob.
	I'm like, well, who's Bob?
	Well, he's a spirit that's been following me forever.
	When we got married and she was gone quite a bit on the road.
	At night, every night while she was gone, there'd be a glow in the corner of the same room, up in the corner, almost like a hive.
	Can we go back for a second?
	I'll call her to the burger.
	I want to hear that again.
	We had gone out.
	She was a singer.
	I watched her sing at night, and we decided to get some food on the way home.
	Yes.
	And we walked in the house, and she's like, hey, I'm going to go change.
	She went in the other room.
	I set the bag of burgers down on a coffee table.
	And kind of laid back and started to watch TV, and all of a sudden the bag just kind of went sideways, and literally the burger, one of the burgers came, like I reached my hand in the bag kind of thing, and pulled the burger out.
	Well, I wasn't wearing a bag, and I'm watching the bag, and then the wrapping off the burger starts to come off.
	Oh man, that's not just fast food, that's self-deraping food.
	Yeah, but I mean seriously, I mean I was completely shocked.
	And and then the bag was like shaking like from the inside like somebody's got their hand inside the bag and I yelled at her and she walked in and she's like what and I'm like the burger it just came out of the bag and and she's like oh that's Bob.
	Bob.
	I'm like who the hell is Bob?
	Yeah who the hell is Bob?
	He's been following me since I was a little girl and but every time she was gone this glowing ball of energy would sit in the and I and I tried to debunk it.
	I checked to make sure it wasn't, you know, lights from a different house.
	I blacked out the windows, I blacked out the doors, and the ball would still be there.
	Every time I would take out a camera to try to take a picture of it, it would go through the wall into the next room.
	So I'd go into the next room, take a picture, and come back into the other room.
	It did not want to be photographed.
	When we got into arguments, I would feel like we had a huge fight one time.
	She walked outside, I started to walk out into the living room, and I got thrown.
	So, I know what it is, but nobody's ever been able to give me a logical explanation as to how a hamburger gets pulled out of a bag, unwrapped, right in front of me, and there's nobody within five feet of the damn thing.
	Um, Doctor?
	Well, first of all, how long did it take for the hamburger to come out and unwrap itself?
	It would have been no different, it would have been, seriously, in all seriousness, it would have been no different if you had reached into a bag, grabbed a hamburger, and unwrapped it.
	It was that quick.
	20 seconds, 15, 20, 30 seconds.
	I'm thinking, how can this, there's no way, I'm the one that carried the bag in.
	Yeah, he's asking you how long, 15 seconds, 20, 30?
	Oh, no, maybe 20 seconds?
	Maybe?
	I mean, it was just like somebody was hungry and they wanted to get the food.
	And let me ask you, did either you or your wife have any type of medical problems in terms of sleep disorders or epilepsy or No, nothing like that.
	Nothing in your background?
	Neither background?
	No.
	And nothing in either one of ours.
	Interesting.
	And this was centered around your girlfriend or your wife?
	My ex-wife now, but yeah, but I mean, it was centered around her and it had been going on since she was a little girl and she was adopted.
	And how old was she at the time?
	she was as a baby, but from the time that she could remember, this thing's always been
	with her and it's gone every location she's ever lived.
	But the weird thing was she was in Europe and the thing was still in the house.
	And how old was she at the time?
	Oh gosh, she was in her early 30s.
	And how old were you at the time?
	Mid-30s.
	Yeah, I mean, obviously this is interesting.
	It's linked to her, but it's also linked to an environment which we've seen in cases where phenomenal continue to exist in one environment, yet one of the people, the agents, will leave.
	And it continues to propagate around them as well, which is, we've had that in a couple of cases.
	But again, it would take a great deal of time to ask and take, you know, a lot of questions, a lot of measurements of the environment of the people, and we might get answers.
	sounds like a really intriguing case. I'll tell you this, I love quarter
	pounders but if one of them unwraps itself I'm running. I mean it was
	something and I mean there were so many things that occurred during the time we
	were together that it got you know I and thankfully I don't spook easily.
	I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm not a cryologist, so my idea is like, you know, investigate, always check, just try to figure it out.
	I think you're perfectly within your rights to be spooked by that, my friend.
	I sure would be, my God.
	Can't even imagine, but I can imagine in my mind, I can visualize a burger unwrapping itself.
	Jason on Skype.
	Hey, Art.
	Hello, Doctor.
	Hello.
	I have actually had a thought for a while now.
	I'm sure you have heard of the entire Amityville incident in New York.
	Oh shit, yes I have.
	Now, I've read currently that there's a new tenant, a new owner, what have you.
	Why do you think that, say, the entire story of the Lux family, who had such a horrific experience and whatnot, and all the owners that have had the place since then, you know, there's not been any more reporting of anything to, like, As far as I know, any paranormal activity whatsoever after their entire experience.
	I guess the answer would be it was with them.
	I interviewed George Lutz extensively.
	Did you happen to hear that years ago?
	Oh, I've listened to you for many years.
	I'm actually 31 now.
	I've called into the show before with a few things.
	I did not catch that interview.
	Too bad.
	It was a good one.
	Oh, I love all the books and everything.
	I've done a lot of personalized research on that.
	It's very enthralling to me.
	Okay, well, Doctor, before you answer this, I'm going to ask, can you both hold?
	We've got a break coming up.
	I can't avoid it.
	Got to do it, so.
	Oh yeah, that's fine.
	Alright, everybody hold tight.
	Dark Matter Network News.
	I'm Amy Martin.
	An unidentified flying object has been spotted over the skies of St.
	Helens in the UK.
	According to witnesses, the object, which was photographed by two different readers of the St.
	Helens Reporter, was floating over St.
	Helens Park and shape-shifting.
	One photograph shows the object during the day, which could be a hobby drone, yet another photograph shows an object over the city at night, depicting an eerie blue-green glowing orb.
	Both readers reached out to the paper through social media.
	The photograph taken at night was reportedly captured just before the lunar eclipse over the night of the 27th and 28th of September.
	What do you think?
	Check them out for yourself at sthellensreporter.co.uk According to Business Insider, a group of divers went to dangerous lengths to remove a hook from the jaws of an injured shark last month.
	The group, which calls themselves Shark Addicts of Jupiter, Florida, were equipped with GoPro cameras when they noticed the shark in distress.
	A member of the group then distracted the dusky shark, holding it by the nose while another member removed the hook.
	You can see this video online at businessinsider.com.
	According to Art Bell listener Sword Master Haruka, strange lights have been spotted over Mount Fuji in Japan.
	The listener writes, Last week I mentioned strange lights or fire around the
	base of Mount Fuji.
	Last night they were big enough or close enough, hard to say,
	that I got some moderately okay pictures with my iPhone.
	In one picture they looked different because one light faded out and a new one started.
	What do these lights look like to you?
	Check these images out on artbell.com.
	A man has survived in the Australian outback after reports say that he was without water for over six
	days.
	The man, who claimed to be hunting feral camels in the Great Victoria Desert, was said to have lived on a diet of nothing but black tree ants.
	West Australian tactical responders found the man disoriented and delusional, though he is said to be recovering in stable condition.
	The blog gadgetzz.com just received a mysterious DVD containing what appears to be a person in a 17th century plague doctor's mask and black robes.
	The figure looks to be communicating a strange encrypted message.
	The disc, which features a series of letters, numbers, and symbols written on the outside, contains the mysterious figure with an odd blinking light in the middle of its hand.
	The video also appears to have numerous deliberate glitches, and it is thought that the figure may be communicating to the recipient through some sort of encrypted Morse code.
	The DVD menu also features an image of human bones.
	The blog claims that the disc arrived from Poland, and is reaching out to readers far and wide to help disseminate the code.
	Have a strange story or a news tip?
	Email amy at artbell.com.
	This has been Amy Martin for Dark Matter Network News.
	Welcome back, everybody.
	Dr. Barry Taft is my guest, and we have been just ranging all over the place in this discussion, a very, very good discussion at that.
	Let's go right back to it.
	Doctor, welcome back, and caller, welcome back.
	Please continue.
	Hello?
	Yes.
	Yeah, that's basically my question with the entire Amityville thing.
	Why would it be that only the Lutzes experienced paranormal activity, but any owner, after they vacated the premises, Have not reported anything.
	I mean, I know before the Lutzes, the entire DeFeo incident, which a lot of people are very sure is what caused the hell.
	The killings.
	Yeah.
	But I it's just I've heard theories about Paranormal activity like that like it kind of being like a a photograph looping in time type of thing but it seemed like it interacted with the family so that kind of negates that and Gives it you know the the entire thought that it was sentient that was interacting with the family.
	So do you have any idea why it would just single in on them and not on owners afterwards?
	Could it have been like provoked by something about them or what?
	Well, you're not gonna like my response, but in my opinion, based on the evidence
	collected by parapsychologists on the case, the reason why nothing happened after the luxury
	this because the case was a hoax.
	Really?
	That's what the evidence suggests, Doctor... I'm probably blanking on his name because I'm tired.
	Now wait a minute, Doctor, why wouldn't it be every bit as easy to say that the reason it left with the Lutz's is because it was attached to them instead of the place?
	I mean, you may have evidence, I don't have.
	If you do, go ahead.
	A colleague of mine, and I'm blanking on his name right now because I'm tired.
	There was some retroactive investigation done, and they couldn't really substantiate most of the claims made by the Lutzes.
	I was on a talk show with the Lutzes right after the book came out.
	It was CBS television here in Los Angeles, and I said I wasn't impressed with the book.
	I thought it wasn't well written.
	It was very sensationalized, and the types of phenomena described were very consistent with what I'd read about over the years and heard about.
	This is 43 years ago, I think it was.
	I wasn't impressed at all.
	And then, why am I blanking out?
	Passed away several years ago.
	Alright, anyway, the bottom line, you don't have to remember, is you think that it was a hoax caller.
	I really appreciate the question.
	No problem.
	Thank you.
	I'm not sure that I agree on the hoax part of it, but you may know more than I do.
	Couldn't it as easily be explained that it was, whatever this entity was, or whatever it was, it was attached to the Lutzes?
	Well, of course, I mean, obviously, as I said, both the phenomenal link to the people and occasionally to
	department and the people
	but education at the department and getting it was a bit it'll reactor will
	react but again based on the evidence that was collected by parapsychologist
	who i knew
	it had worked with you know they could there was no they couldn't validate or verify
	one of the facts described in the book which
	leave a little bit with the suspicion that it was the whole thing was hoped
	There was always belief that when Jantz, before Jantz died, the author of the book, he admitted that he and the Lutzes made it up.
	They were drinking and they were smoking a lot of weed and they just made the whole thing up.
	I can't prove it just from that.
	That's some of the stories that have been scuttled, but that's going around for a long time.
	OK.
	All right.
	First time caller line in Boise.
	You're on the air.
	Hello?
	Hello.
	Uh, hi.
	Art?
	Yes.
	Oh, hey.
	Awesome, I got through.
	Yes.
	Yeah, I've been a longtime listener to you for, since I was about 22.
	I'm about 40 now.
	Thank you for that.
	I was just, yeah, I was just thinking on, like, the, uh, the whole hybrid, uh, takeover thing.
	Yes.
	That maybe, maybe it's not necessarily a bad thing, you know?
	Maybe...
	Maybe there's like, you know how the elites run a lot of the world?
	You sound like you're banging around there.
	Get good and close to your phone or whatever it is you're talking into.
	Okay, can you hear me now?
	Oh, I heard you right along.
	Oh, okay.
	Yeah, maybe like the elites that supposedly run the world, maybe there's another more malevolent alien entity that actually runs You're not the only one who's had that view, Culler.
	And so maybe these other aliens or entities are mixing themselves with the humans to help
	fight back and maybe change the world into something better than it has.
	You're not the only one who's had that view, Culler.
	There are a number of people who've said, you know what, the way things are going, they
	might be doing us a favor.
	And of course you can't rule that out.
	Yeah.
	It's just been a thought I had.
	I've never called before, so I just thought I'd give it a try and throw my idea.
	Glad you did, and please call again, okay?
	Alright, thank you.
	It was awesome to talk to you, sir.
	Take care.
	It's an idea that has to be considered, Doctor, if they are interacting with us, if they are changing us.
	You know, it has to be considered that it may not be a bad thing, although most of us would, I think, revolt at the concept of not being in control of ourselves.
	Maybe one day we'll all be singing Kumbaya and holding hands.
	Who knows?
	A lot of calls here.
	El Paso, Texas.
	Let's try that.
	You're on the air.
	Hello, Art.
	Hello, Doctor.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	I'm glad I got through.
	I was the one on Skype that you couldn't hear me.
	And my question is... Is your name Robert?
	No, sir.
	My name is Felipe.
	Felipe.
	Okay, Felipe.
	You better use the phone because that was one terrible Skype connection, brother.
	Yes, I know.
	I apologize.
	It's quite all right.
	The question for the doctor, what is the scariest thing you have witnessed with your own eyes?
	Two things come to mind.
	One was in 1992 in a case in the I think it was the Hyde Park District.
	I remember it was a case of a nice Hispanic family and we're standing in large.
	Doctor?
	Yeah.
	We lost you for a second there.
	You lost me?
	For a second.
	Yeah, you're back now.
	Oh, anyway, what happened is half the room began to violently shake while the other half of the room was not moving.
	It's not that we don't understand how that could happen.
	It can't happen.
	Because everything's connected with boards and bolts on the floors and the ceilings.
	So how can half a room shake?
	Uh, it can't.
	Right.
	Nor can hamburgers unwrap themselves.
	Right.
	One stranger, 1978, Television City, Fairfax and Beverly.
	My colleague and I were being interviewed to go on some talk show, and my colleague makes a joke that I don't show up in photographs, and I've had problems with cameras since I was very young.
	And I said, you made me look like an idiot in front of these people.
	They take a picture of Baltimore with an SX-70 Polaroid.
	It develops.
	Yeah, well, there was a problem, all right.
	My colleague showed up perfectly.
	It was a foot to my right.
	All you see where I was was a massive white light.
	No head, no face, no hair, nothing.
	Light.
	And they freaked out, told us to leave.
	All right, caller, how's that?
	Half a room shaking, the other half not.
	Sounds pretty scary.
	Yeah, I would say so too.
	If I was there, I'd be scared out of my wits.
	Going to Denver, Colorado on the first time caller line.
	You're on the air.
	Hey, you guys, how's it going?
	It's going well, sir.
	Hey, I wanted to ask the doctor if he believes in past lives.
	Oh, good question.
	Doctor?
	You know, I think we've sort of lost him.
	I don't know where he went.
	He's still there.
	He's still connected.
	But it's like he's gone.
	So I don't know what to say.
	Caller, since I've got you, do you believe in past lives?
	I think I do.
	You think you do.
	Yeah, because of something that, you know, happened to me when I was younger.
	Go ahead, tell me. Well, when I was about 27, all of a sudden I got this
	madness about this girl I knew when I was in the fifth grade, you know.
	And it was so terrible.
	What do you mean by madness?
	You mean like wanting to see her again or what?
	Right.
	Right.
	Or I thought I, uh, something was wrong, terribly, terribly wrong, you know?
	And, uh, I woke up the next day and I ran into her and, uh, I, uh, almost went nut.
	You're crazy, you know?
	And, uh, Then what happened was a psychic told me, I didn't know who to go to, I thought I was getting ready to go to a mental hospital, and the psychic told me that we were in the past life together, and that's what this was, you know.
	And that straightened you out.
	Pardon?
	That straightened you out.
	In other words, you said you were ready to go to a mental hospital.
	Right.
	Yes, sir, that gave me an explanation, you know.
	As to what this, you know, this madness was, you know.
	Right.
	An obsession, I guess you would call it.
	Is that a fair word?
	Obsession?
	I guess you could say that.
	I did.
	All right.
	Well, thank you very much.
	Very interesting.
	I would like to say something.
	And by the way, we've lost the doctor.
	I can't really dial him back up right now in the middle of a show or in the middle of the last minutes of a show.
	But I am very, very interested in the possibility of past lives.
	I have no idea whether it could be or is, but I have this feeling that there is something to it.
	And I've sort of looked into it more than you know, and it's something I would like to get some guests on.
	Let's go to Fallon, Nevada.
	You're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art.
	How are you doing?
	Fine.
	I lost my guest, unfortunately.
	Yeah, well, my question was going to be for Dr. Taff.
	I believe he was involved in the infamous Entity case.
	Oh, he explained it.
	Did you hear the beginning of the show?
	I did, yeah.
	Okay, he explained the whole thing.
	Yeah, my question really was going to be if someone can actually produce, because I believe his synopsis was that she created it herself.
	Yes.
	Is there a way you can channel that to a more positive... if someone has that kind of ability or that kind of power, is there a way to channel that for a more positive... Result?
	Result, yeah.
	You know, that was going to be my question.
	Have they thought about Well, it may not be.
	It may be, sir, that if somebody is producing so much energy, so much, in this case, negative energy, it's like asking them to suddenly be a happy person and make something jump up and down on the table, you know, to excite people instead of doing this negative stuff.
	And I don't see how that would work out.
	Okay, well I'm sorry, that's the best answer I can offer.
	I don't think so.
	George on Skype, it's your turn.
	Hello?
	Going once, going twice, and gone.
	Let's go to Little Rock, Arkansas.
	Okay, well I'm sorry that's the best answer I can offer. I don't think so.
	George on Skype, it's your turn. Hello.
	Hello. Going once, going twice, and gone. Let's go to Little Rock, Arkansas. Hi,
	you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes.
	Just wanted to make sure it was me.
	It's you.
	Okay.
	Thank you.
	Well, I had a question for the doctor also, and I wanted to ask him, maybe you can if you get a chance.
	He said he had had a lot of out-of-body experiences.
	Well, I had one.
	It was a long time ago.
	And how it started was, I was just sitting in my living room, and I just sort of kind of went into a trance, stared at my curtains on the wall, and all of a sudden, I heard a voice saying, I am that I am.
	And this happened a few times, and then I sort of had a reaction that I can either go with this or say no.
	And I said, I'm gone.
	I'm going with it.
	And the next thing I knew, I was leaving my body.
	I looked back, saw myself on the couch.
	I had slumped over sideways, like I was unconscious and fell over.
	And it was like, I want to say it was the Holy Spirit or an angel.
	Something like that was Well, that's probably based on your religious background, I would guess, right?
	Well, I am a believer, but... There you have it.
	I'm not... I don't go to church all the time, let's put it that way.
	But I am a believer in Jesus.
	I think it's reasonable for us to discuss the fact that if you're a religious person and something like this happens to you, you're probably going to assign it to something that fits your belief system.
	Is that fair?
	Yeah, I would say that's fair.
	And the next thing I knew I was going through the air with this being and I was on like I figured out, at the time I wasn't sure what was happening, but I was on a mountain, which I now think was like where Moses received the Ten Commandments, and he saw the finger of God writing them on the wall, on the stone.
	Yes.
	And I saw that, and there was two commandments.
	One was, thou shalt have no other gods before me.
	And the other was Honor Thy Father and Thy Mother.
	So you didn't get to stick around for all ten?
	No, I only got two.
	Okay.
	Well, that's a lot more than out of body.
	I mean, that is time travel, that's all kinds of things.
	And I'm sorry we don't have time to go into this because the show is actually ending and so I would like to say thank you to Dr. Taff who I didn't have an opportunity to say goodbye to because he just disappeared so I'll call him back and we'll touch base but he just I don't know he was gone all the phone lines are full plenty of people to talk to him but the doctor just vanished I don't have a frequent chance to do this I want to thank my team and all of you know this show doesn't just happen
	It is a team effort.
	So, Celos, Joe Talbot, my buddy here.
	Thank you, Joe, for the wonderful audio.
	Keith Rowland, my webmaster.
	Heather Wade, my producer.
	Streamguys.
	LV.net.
	Sales.
	Pete Eberhardt.
	TuneIn Radio distributes us to many, many, many, many.
	And, of course, Amy Martin.
	She's our new news lady, and boy, what a job she does.
	My goodness.
	So, that's it.
	Folks, have a great night.
	We'll do it again tomorrow.
	I'll call the doctor and say sorry we got discombobulated there.
	Through all the time zones, good night.
	I'm not a good girl.
	So what
	Midnight in the desert and there's wisdom in the air I've been looking for the answers all my life I found you
	there As the world we live in quickens I'll be heeding all the signs Have we lost our intuition?
	Are we running out of time?
	Midnight in the desert And we're listening Ooh, we're listening And we're listening

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