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Aug. 1, 2015 - Art Bell
02:14:15
Art Bell MITD - Blanche Barton Church Of Satan
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From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the world's time zones.
I'm Art Bell, and this is Midnight in the Desert.
And this is also For Rump in the Storm Path.
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Um, take a look at artbell.com.
I took a picture with my phone of the radar and what's approaching my little town right now.
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Andy, he wants to be called, I guess, Bajago, and he couldn't make it because his Skype was full of hum, and so we went to a backup number, and that turned out to be a cell phone.
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The death toll, just a couple of items here, from the fiery explosions in China, as I knew it would, has now climbed to 50.
700 were injured.
It was horrible.
Horrible.
They still really don't know exactly what it was.
Now, we talk about the air and the condition of the planet.
You remember L.A.
back when it was really smoggy?
Well, it's nothing compared to China.
In China, air pollution is killing 4,000 people a day.
Every day.
4,000 people a day.
Can you imagine that?
In one of the deadliest single attacks in post-war Baghdad, a truck bomb shattered a popular fruit and vegetable market in a teeming Shiite neighborhood.
dead, 150 wounded.
Boy.
From theanomalist.com A lucky eyewitness in Illinois got the sighting of a
lifetime during a thunderstorm.
Maybe I better not read this.
During a thunderstorm last month when he managed to capture one of the most elusive phenomenons to ever be studied.
No, not a UFO.
The flying object has been tentatively identified as ball lightning.
Ball lightning ignores all natural rules.
It ignores gravity, it ignores everything, it goes where it wants to go, it does what it wants to do.
It's an interesting piece of land that I live in here in Pahrump, Nevada, South Nevada.
We're about six miles from the California border.
In fact, if you look at that picture, the blue circle up at artbell.com on the radar shot is exactly where I am.
I am in that blue circle, at least for now.
It looks like a bad one.
All right, so coming up in a moment is uh... and i have been sprinkling my studio by the way
with uh...
uh... holy water actually little tap water here
came out of a hole born and raised in san diego
uh...
this amazing person coming up blanche barton graduated Phi Beta Kappa from redlands college with a
degree in journalism and literature
she met anton lovey I guess you know who that is, right?
Most of you?
She met Anton LaVey the day after the previous High Priestess left the Black House.
Barton became LaVey's companion and mother of his only son.
She became High Priestess of the Church of Satan, holding this title until April 30, 2002, when she assumed the role of chairmistress of the Council of Nine.
Her biography of Leveille, The Secret Life of a Satanist, the authorized biography of Anton Leveille,
was originally published in 1990, and an expanded edition is available now.
Blanche also wrote The Church of Satan, a history of the world's most notorious
religion. Alright, we're gonna break here and when we come back Blanche will be here
unless the storm has moved in and erased me and the entire program.
Anyway, take a look at the radar to give you an idea of exactly where I am, or was.
Midnight moon was drifting through the lazy sway of the trees.
I saw the look in your eyes, looking into mine.
Take a walk on the wild side of midnight.
From the kingdom of night, this is Midnight in the Desert with Art Bell.
Please call the show at 1-952-225-5278.
That's 1-952, call Art.
the devil's music. I take a walk on the wild side of midnight. From the kingdom of night, this is Midnight in
the Desert with Art Bell. Please call the show at 1952-225-5278.
That's 1952. Call Art. Alright, here comes Blanche Barton.
She is a damn high priestess. I'm I would assume, Blanche, welcome to the program, by the way.
Ah, Mr. Art Bell, we meet at last.
In the stormy desert at midnight, best time.
It's the dark of the moon, too.
And the Perseid shower, I tell you, it's just hizmet.
I'm old Blanche, I don't have much to lose.
Anyway, welcome to the program.
It's great to have you, and I assume that you probably keep the title You know, much as congressmen and senators keep the title even after they've left office, you're still probably High Priestess, right?
Well, people are very respectful to me, but my title officially is the Magistra Templi-Rex, which is below the current High Priestess, who is Peggy Nedramian, doing a bang-up job of it.
Would you mind repeating that slowly?
And her husband, Peter Gilmore, who's the High Priest.
Would you mind repeating that slowly, please?
Your title.
Magistra Templi-Rex.
And that just means that I'm the head of the Council of Nine, and that I'm a Grand Poobah in the Church of Satan, right below the other ultimate Grand Poobahs.
Okay.
Can we immediately do this and find out, what is the difference, if any, between Satan and the Devil?
Any difference?
I would use them both interchangeably.
I think it would be important for us to start our conversation with you understanding that we use Satan, the devil, Lucifer as a metaphor.
We don't worship a guy with horns and a pitchfork.
We don't believe that such a being exists.
We don't believe that God or the devil or hell or heaven exists.
It's all within us.
We own our own destinies, we are our own gods, we're self-deifying, and we're responsible for our own happiness and our own success and our own failures.
And to make it short and sweet, life is short, and there's no reliable evidence that there's anything beyond this life, so you'd better make this life count and enjoy it while you can.
Okay Blanche, well then here comes a big question.
If all of that is so, Then why would you even bother to have a church with his name?
That is a very good question.
And Anton LaVey was asked that very question when he started the Church of Satan.
And people said, you know, if you would just call it something else, you know, if you called it humanism.
He talks about this in the Satanic Bible, which he published in 1969.
You know, if you called it humanism or even Typhonism or something, maybe you'd get more followers.
But his point was that he didn't want more followers.
The point of calling it Satanism is There's always a Satan in every culture.
There's always the accuser.
There's always the other.
There's always the one outside.
And he's the scapegoat.
And it's dangerous.
It's dangerous to have scapegoats.
Christianity has scapegoats.
Muslim beliefs have scapegoats.
And to demonize others, when you say, I'm a good guy, and those people over there are bad guys, We can kill them, we can shoot them, we can torture them, because they're the bad guys.
And you know that Satan is evil, right?
Because you've been told that all your life.
Yes, yes.
But what else?
This is a word that you've been programmed to be afraid of.
So what else have you been programmed to be afraid of?
Liberal?
Quite a bit.
Conservative?
Abortion?
You know, how are you being manipulated by politicians and people who want to take your money?
You know, so that's the point of calling it Satanism, is don't believe the stuff that's being fed you.
Donald Trump scares me a little.
Yeah, isn't that amazing?
And that's why we're here.
That's why you need Satanists right now, because the political season is kicking off, and look at what you have to choose from.
We're not just about anti-Christianity or anti-theism.
That's a very big part of what we are, but anything that's a sacred cow has to be examined and challenged.
Whenever you see broad generalizations or Alright, let's get into this.
homonym attacks instead of actual arguments on important issues. You know, you were talking
about we've got serious environmental problems right now.
We've got serious economic problems.
And what are we doing? We're killing each other over phantoms, over lies. And that's
not how we bring things together to save our planet right now. And that's what we're all
about.
All right, let's get into this. Over lies. And that's a very broad brushstroke right
across all of religion, from God to the devil.
True.
Right?
True.
Yeah, well, the point is that we do enter the ritual chamber.
We have lesser magic, greater magic, that we indulge in as a part of poetic nature in humans, but we do it consciously.
We go into what we call the intellectual decompression chamber.
We put on our robes and we call forth the icons that we find, bring us power within ourselves, but we know that we're
calling forth the power within ourselves, but we're using the poetic
metaphors to reach places that part of the human brain
that we don't quite understand, that a lot of your other people that are on your show
try to understand more consciousness and the powers of the human brain and human potential.
We do it based first and foremost on reasonableness and rationality.
Then we add in the more metaphysical explorations.
Or if we don't want to, it's not necessary to do that as a Satanist.
But if you want to play with the poetics of it, then that's okay too.
But we don't build Our foundation on sand and that's what most religions do they build them on sand and they lead to blindness and prejudice and they impose ignorance on their children and a distrust of science and that's not the best of what human beings can be.
Well, what you preach is all good stuff.
The pulpit, excuse me, the position from which you preach perhaps calls into question, you know, many people, the whole thing is called into question, frankly.
Satan and the Word, you're right, the devil, Satan, whatever, it scares the hell out of people.
And I guess that's exactly what it's intended to do.
And that sort of surprises me because we've been around for 50 years.
We've been saying the same stuff for the last 50 years.
And people don't listen.
It shows that every culture and everybody still needs the devil.
They still need the other guys.
They still need the bad guys, the evil ones, the outsiders.
And that's okay.
As far as we're concerned, we're in pretty good company.
Most of the people that are the best thinkers, You're obviously a clear thinker.
innovative thinkers are generally labeled as heretics so you know why not
take pride in that you're obviously a clear thinker but tell me about anton
uh...
he was uh... a brilliant He was far ahead of his time.
He started out interested in magic, but he also had a wonderful skill with music.
So he played the oboe and keyboards were his real love.
And he became a hypnotist.
He worked in a carnival.
He worked in the circus.
He was a police photographer.
Wow.
And out of all of those Let me go back.
You said he began with magic.
and human foibles up close and personal. He saw people sneaking in to look at the burlesque
girls in the carnival and then sneaking across on Sunday to go with their families to see
the tent show revivalists and cleanse their souls of all their wicked thoughts.
That's right. Alright, let me go back. You said he began with magic. Is magic real?
Well, I believe that magic can only be... I can only answer that for myself.
You have to answer that for yourself.
Well, you said Anton began with magic.
Well, he began with an interest in magic and the supernatural, and he did.
He checked out as many people as he thought might have a gateway into other worlds, other ways of being.
Madame Blavatsky or Aleister Crowley, and they were all so Dry and boring and sad and obfuscating.
He just wanted the real deal.
And I think people are attracted to his philosophy.
One of the reasons that they're attracted to his philosophy is because he doesn't dance around.
He says what he means.
He means what he says.
He says, this is how I do what I do.
Go in the ritual chamber.
Try it.
If it works for you, great.
Try these methods that I wrote in The Satanic Witch about basic psychology, reading people, cold readings that he learned in the carnival, the whole process of looking at nonverbal cues, and make it work for you.
Yes, but those are all tricks, and what I'm asking is, did he find the real thing, or did he practice when he found the real thing?
Well, certainly he did.
So magic is real?
Yes.
I have experienced magical consequences of what I've done in the ritual chamber.
As I say though, that doesn't mean that if you go into the ritual chamber and you do exactly what I did, it may not work for you.
To be honest, now this is just me speculating, this isn't Church of Satan policy, but it's almost as if everybody has a different frequency, you know?
Right.
And Anton talked about this when he was playing music for animals in the circus.
He said, you don't play the same song for an elephant as you do for a tiger, because they have different rhythms, they have different moods.
And I think certain people are just attracted to the satanic mythos.
We're attracted to the anti-hero, you know, like Lord Byron, you know, with the Miltonian anti-hero, the light bearer, Lucifer, you know, or Prometheus, for example, who risks the wrath of the gods in order to bring the fire of wisdom and intellect and creativity to human beings, you know, and he was punished for it.
Or the ultimate, of course, in the Garden of Eden, the serpent, you know, tempting with
the apple of knowledge, from the tree of knowledge.
All these metaphors are the same.
And these are things that inspire me.
Religion presents you with metaphors and myths, stories that codify and strengthen you.
They're almost like a group art project to me, you know, because they communicate what is important to a given society, what you hold dear, what rituals you find important, and what those ideals are.
So my ideal is not some guy hanging on a cross.
I'm sorry, when my back is up against the wall, I want You know, a dynamic, life-affirming, poetic image of Satan, who is the ultimate anti-hero.
And actually, Anton, when you look at him, certainly carried some of those physical characteristics, didn't he?
Oh, he certainly did.
Yes, he certainly did, and he emphasized them.
True to lesser magical ability, he saw what worked best for him, and he saw the look that he could present, and that fit, and he used it.
Okay.
Pinned to the wall, you admit magic is and or can be real.
If magic is real, then the supernatural is real, right?
Yes.
That's a pretty grudging yes.
Well, you're leading me down to a certain conclusion, and I want to tell you that what we consider, what we do in the Ritual Chamber is like a laboratory.
I don't think enough has been understood yet about, and again, this gets back to the other guests that you've had.
I mean, even like Dean Radin, The Conscious Universe.
Oh, you are a listener, aren't you?
Well, exactly.
Or what is it?
The field, McTaggart.
There's a lot that we do not understand about the interactions of time, space, matter.
We're sort of nibbling around the edges.
And we now understand that true to long, long history of witchcraft, that blood, semen, all the body fluids and hair that are used traditionally in magic, that now lo and behold It contains people's DNA, so it is a direct link to an individual.
When the witches started doing that, including blood and hair and stuff in their spells so many millennia ago... I'd never argue with this.
No, you're dead right.
We are little snowflakes and our DNA is definitely us.
And so you're right.
Hair, blood, semen, bodily fluids, it's all the individual us.
So if that is used, if that is used in the right way, by the right person, there is magic.
With the right intent.
Again, Anton LaVey lays it out very clearly in the Satanic Bible.
There are certain elements that need to be addressed, including imagery, and there's also the balance factor.
He includes that very important element, because he says that you need to be aware of who you are and what potency you have.
If you're a 25-watt person, and you're sexually attracted to a Interesting, interesting.
But again, I'm going to keep going down this road as far as I can take you.
than trying to attract that particular person, you know, to start out.
Interesting, interesting. But again, I'm going to keep going down this road as far as I can take you.
And I will ask, is it possible to use a person's essence, bodily fluids, whatever, essence,
in a positive way for them, as well as a negative way for them?
Absolutely. We have three basic rituals. We have lust, compassion, and destruction.
So, the point of going into the ritual chamber in the first place is not...
primarily to move the universe in the way you want it to.
I mean, that's of course good as a side effect, but it's a psychodrama.
Let me give you an example.
Sure.
Okay, so someone at work is really working against you.
Someone is telling the boss lies about you.
They're making you look bad.
They're hiding your materials.
They're really going out of their way to hurt you.
Yes.
So, you're really frustrated.
You're thinking about this person all the time.
You can't eat.
You can't sleep.
You're really angry and you feel impotent.
So you go into the ritual chamber, you do a destruction ritual, you concentrate on this person, and you wish them all the bad, bad things to happen to them, and you let it go.
You let all of it go.
You build up all of that energy, and like a good orgasm, you just flow out.
It goes out into the universe.
And then, you let go of the rope.
It's done.
As far as you're concerned, it is done.
It's a done deal.
As far as you're concerned?
You've spoken to the universe.
It's going to happen.
Whatever's supposed to happen will happen.
So next week, you go into work and this schmo has been promoted and moved to Hawaii.
So did your curse work?
Well, you don't have to deal with him anymore, do you?
And maybe he'll get caught in a wonderful storm in Hawaii, and maybe his life will be terrible.
So maybe you go in next week, and he was hit by a Mack truck, now has about 35 broken bones, and is in traction in the hospital.
There you go!
You know, that's the way it goes.
Yes.
Well, I love the fact that you can bring up the rosiest metaphor possible when discussing somebody you don't like.
Well, you could have asked me about a lust ritual.
You want to talk about that?
We'll get to that, sure.
You are, I don't know if you want to know, you're an attorney, right?
No.
You're not an attorney?
Well, you certainly sound like one.
Ah, well I argue a lot.
Thank you, that's a compliment.
I bet you do.
I bet you do.
Okay, this must be asked.
There are many who believe that Anton LaVey Actually did conjure up the devil.
What do you know about that?
I would say yes, absolutely.
You would?
You know, if you're talking about the metaphorical devil.
I mean, he unleashed, 50 years ago, he unleashed this power of all the people that now call themselves Satanists.
And we are doing fabulous things, wonderful things in publishing, we have a lot of people in military, we have people making art, tattoos, lawyers, teachers, All sorts of people doing amazing, wonderful things, and that was, you know, there'd never really been an actual calling forth of the devil and giving him his due the way that Anton LaVey did.
There'd been, you know, before there'd been sort of prankish ceremonies, the Hellfire Clubs and references to the devil and heretics and stuff, but there hadn't been people stepping forward and pridefully Purposefully taking the name of Satan and saying this is how we define Satan.
This is what he represents for us and move over because we're living life and we're having a great time.
All right.
Hold it right there.
We're at a break point.
Relax.
You've got several minutes.
This is Midnight in the Desert.
I'm Art Bell.
A new religion they'll bring on to me.
Black love but it's a dream.
Wanna take a ride?
Exclusively on the Dark Matter Digital Network.
This is Midnight in the Desert with your host, Art Bell.
To call Art, please dial 1952-225-5278.
That's 1952.
Call Art.
How many of you feel your soul seeping from your body already?
Hmm?
Clash Barton is my guest.
She is, was, actually, the High Priestess of the Church of Satan, and is Chairmistress of the Council of Nine.
And we have talked of interesting things.
Humanism, Satanism, and magic.
Now, I do have a little bit of a, I don't want to say problem, interest, I guess I would say, If you pin down Blanche, magic is real.
And she described something, frankly, that could have easily been described by Dr. Evelyn Paglini.
Now, Blanche, have you been a listener long enough to have heard Evelyn Paglini on the program?
I should have.
I'm sure there are a lot of Satanists out there that would, you know, like to slap me about the head and shoulders for not knowing who that is.
She's a witch.
and she has described spells going after people like you described you know the
disgruntled worker the one you're unhappy with and how to do that how to work spells
for passion you brought that up earlier in other words you two talk very much
alike You just mentioned Satan, and of course you're involved in the Church Of, but other than that, you could have sounded, you just frankly sound a lot alike.
So, obviously you didn't hear her because I promise you, she's passed on, you would have remembered.
But choose a witch.
Yeah, I probably would.
They use a lot of the same, I mean, the horned god is what they call the masculine figure.
Witches and Wiccans, essentially.
I call myself a witch.
I'm a satanic witch.
So, you know, we use a lot of the techniques.
We use lesser magic, which is manipulative magic to to get what we want on a on a day-to-day basis then we use greater magic which is which is in the ritual chamber but I think that the where a lot of people part company that are interested in magic part company with Wicca or witchcraft as it is now portrayed now they're moving a little bit away from this but they they get all squeamish about the word Satan
You know, they want to use the tools, but they don't want to align themselves with the bad guy.
And if you're going to use the tools, then our thought is you should give the credit where the credit's due.
She was not a Wiccan.
She described herself as a spiritual warrior.
Okay, well, that's good.
A lot of people that talk that kind of talk, and they're not Satanists, I don't understand why they're not a Satanist.
It seems like a logical step to me.
I know a lot of, in the 60s, there was a group calling themselves W-I-T-C-H.
And they were essentially militant feminists that were using the metaphors of being witches and being evil and being ugly and empowering themselves, you know, like the word queer, kind of giving themselves that life and that strength by calling themselves witches.
And, you know, as a Satanist, you know, I think it's a little bit short of the mark.
You know, if you're going that far and you don't align yourself with Because we call ourselves Satanists for a lot of different reasons, as I've already explained.
Because most of the great thinkers, including and up to Copernicus, Galileo, and more recent, you know, People have always been called heretics and blasphemers, and so why don't you pridefully say, yes, I align myself with all that you consider evil, and I go to those dark places.
I mean, I consider you a fellow traveler.
You go to those dark places, too, and you force people to expand their paradigms.
You know, you bring in speculation and provocation and you make people, you say, okay, here it is.
You think about this.
I'm forcing you to confront this.
And you think about it.
You can either reject it and say it doesn't exist or you can try to expand your consciousness to include this.
That's what a good scientist does.
I think that it does exist.
I think magic actually does exist.
I think that many things that we discuss in the paranormal world do exist.
And what I don't understand is if you feel the same way, and I know you do, how can that not lead you to a curiosity about a maker, a creator, and Satan?
All of those things being possible.
Well, that does not necessarily follow for me.
Because you're going down that road.
How can you not continue down that road to the ultimate possible conclusion?
Well, I don't need a maker.
I have evolution.
I have reason.
I have rationality.
I don't need a God that created me.
If he did, He's an absentee landlord.
And I've talked to people about this before, too.
I can't force myself to believe in a God that I don't believe exists.
I can't force myself to believe that some guy 2,000 years ago in the Middle East dying, if he did live, if he was an individual, and he wasn't just a compilation of a bunch of supposed fulfillment of Jewish prophecy, I can't believe that he has any bearing on my life as I live and breathe today.
I'm the one who controls what I'm doing now, and if I had to believe, if I really tried to believe in a God that was omnipotent and omniscient and I could pray to, And he would pay attention to me, each little sparrow, and each little butterfly, and each little, you know, grain of sand in the cosmos he cares about.
Okay, so there's such a being.
How does he let happen what he lets happen?
How can the fighting continue?
How can all of these bad things, and of course they say Satan.
Okay.
Well, no.
They, or me, just might say free will.
But, but let me continue just a minute more.
Sure, go ahead.
It would create such frustration and anger in me to believe in that kind of God.
If I tried to, and I really tried to pray, and I really tried to understand, I would be homicidal.
Because I could not reconcile why this being who supposedly loves me would threaten me and manipulate me in such a petulant, petty way that I have to bow down and worship him and do what he tells me to do or he'll throw me into a fiery pit for all eternity.
I mean, what kind of love is that?
You know, I kind of agree with a lot of that.
I really do.
But what about the whole concept of an original creator And then free will.
In other words, we're down here and left to do what we're going to do, and our ultimate, you know, up or down-ville depends on how we do.
Okay, so my free will tells me that I'm a representative of Satan.
Because if that God created me with a brain, He wants me to have a scientific mind, a rational mind.
He wants me to challenge.
He wants me to be against self-deceit.
And he doesn't want me to bow down and worship him, so I'm doing my job.
I'm not killing anybody.
I'm not stealing from anybody.
I have a very sound base of ethics that I move from.
I don't need a God who's going to threaten me or strong-arm me so that I'll do the right thing.
I do it because I live in a society where it's expected of me, and I want the same respect from my other fellow creatures, and so that's the contract.
That's the social contract like Rousseau talked about.
I don't hurt you.
You don't hurt me.
I don't need a God to tell me to do that.
Okay, what has Satan done for you that God has not?
He's freed my mind.
He's freed my will.
He's inspired me.
He's strengthened me.
He is a guide for me in my life.
The whole anti-heroic, Miltonian attitude of even when your back is up against the wall, when you don't have anything else in you, even when you've been demonized and put upon and attacked mercilessly by the majority you still are prideful and defiant and creative and driven and that's where that's where Satan leads me.
Alright, earlier I asked you if he conjured up the devil and you responded that yes he did.
In my mind he has let loose the gates of hell.
There's a whole generation two generations now of people applying Satanism
every day of their lives. And one of the reasons why I'm on your show
is, well, three reasons. One, you know, because you've got a wonderful show. And it's an
honor and a pleasure to be
to be on your show. But also, people are Satanists all around the world now.
It's a very popular philosophy, but a lot of times you don't even know when there's a Satanist working next to you, or teaching your children, or babysitting your parents.
You don't know that they're Satanists because it's not necessary for you to disclose that you're a Satanist.
In our version of the world, if it does you no good to expose yourself, then don't do it.
People are confused.
They don't understand it.
But I want people to know that if you find out that your co-worker is a Satanist, that there's nothing for you to fear or get freaked out about.
These are our ethics.
These are our attitudes.
These are our habits.
We stick to our own most of the time.
We keep our nose out of your business.
As long as you don't try preaching to me, I'm not going to preach to you.
You're not going to find Satanists on the street corners handing out pamphlets or knocking on your door and waking you up at 7 o'clock in the morning on a Saturday or Sunday.
Good.
You know, we figure we want the information to be out there.
That's what the Church of Satan is here for, is to continue to codify and clarify what Anton LaVey said, keep his ideas pure, blending the poetic and the rational, Parts of human beings and if you're interested in it You will seek us out and you'll find out if it's the right thing if it's not for you, that's fine But if you know of a Satanist don't you know, I don't want you to overreact and say oh, yeah I want you to understand and be able to have an intelligent conversation with them Just to be clear your relationship with Anton LaVey was a
It started out, I was working in the office in San Francisco, along with other people, and as I began to know him, I began taking notes.
He was an amazing raconteur.
He'd tell jokes.
He'd tell these stories about his life and about the people that he'd known, and his lion, and his leopard, and people that he'd known on the police force would come by, and he'd talk with them, and I had extraordinary access And I had a pencil and a tablet and I started writing down
some of these stories and some of the stuff that he was talking about
because I knew that he was an important historical man.
He will be remembered, you know, many, many years from now.
And what he was saying needed to be written down.
So I wrote the biography and we became more intimate.
Our relationship changed and that's why the new Secret Life of a Satanist is, the last few chapters are materially different than the first few chapters.
The last chapters are much more, I hope I don't become too modeling or I hope I don't break down the image of who he was but it's much more intimate portrait of of him as a man and what he struggled through in the last years of his life and how productive he was at the same time and so I want people to know the strength that he had because he was undergoing physical challenges as well as the satanic panic and legal challenges and he
He survived.
He was strong and right up until the end.
Were they coming after him legally because of what he said he was?
No, because of personal reasons.
I see.
But, of course, you remember the Satanic Panic of the mid-80s to the 90s.
Early 90s, a lot of people may not remember, but it was an insane period of time.
I mean, we had Geraldo and Sally Jesse Raphael and Oprah Winfrey with these people who were claiming to have been molested as children in Satanic sacrifices, and baby breeders, and they tore up a whole Well, you know what happened in Manhattan Beach with the preschool.
The FBI finally did a thorough, thorough search of everything and said there is no international satanic conspiracy.
But this was only after at least two documents were introduced into state legislation to ban the practice of satanism.
As a religion.
They, you know, not Judaism, not Church of Christ, Satanism, which is a recognized religion in this country, recognized by, in the Chaplain's Guide to the Military Services, and they wanted to ban it as a practice.
And that's scary.
Well, it never, of course, would have held up.
Never.
No, of course not.
And, you know, there's a lot of weird stuff introduced into state legislature, but the fact that they felt that they could have the impetus to, you know, the backing to introduce it was pretty scary.
You know, it didn't go anywhere, but still.
I guess.
Yeah, I guess it is.
It was scary, to be sure.
I mean, it's like the communist purge way back, right?
Well, and people were, I mean, Their lives were broken.
They got fired from their jobs.
They were going through divorces and people lost their children.
They had Child Protective Custody coming in and taking their children away just on accusations.
And finally, I think the court system and the insurance companies got tired of paying these bills for these recovered memories and these supposed counselors that were behind so much of it.
It was a time of suspicion, and the two elements that Dr. LaVey hated so much was that they would go on these shows, and instead of talking about real Satanism, they'd talk about some animal sacrifices or child sacrifices.
And so the teenagers who were watching these shows and listening to this hysteria would say, ooh, I want to be like You know, a real Satanist.
And so, they would go off and maybe sacrifice a dog or something, and that would end up in the local papers.
And Dr. LaVey loved animals.
He had many, many wonderful animals that he had a great relationship with.
And one of the tenets that he makes very clear in our Satanic Statements and in the Satanic Bible is you would not hurt an animal or a child because they're the most natural magicians.
and instead of waving the Satanic Bible around in disgust and saying,
isn't this awful, they wouldn't read the book and they wouldn't tell people that's
what Satanism really represented.
And he said, all these animals, if there are animals being hurt
or killed in this fashion because of you know they think that that's
that's what real satanists do, these animals should be placed on Oprah Winfrey's and Geraldo
Rivera's doorsteps because they're the ones that are doing it, not us.
They're the ones that are leading these people to do this."
And he felt very sad about that aspect of it.
I once had a young lady on my show whose name was Patsy.
She had devoted her life to the devil, to satan, and she said that she would ensure that her daughter, son, would be
taken by the devil as well as herself.
you Now, she wasn't just a caller, when she began as a caller, and I went on to interview her in depth, but this, I'm telling you right now, this gal named Patsy meant what she said.
Now, I understand that that is not what you've told us about tonight
but how many patsies are out there there are people that use any number of
uh...
context for their
disturbances They create fantasies.
I mean, I'm not a psychoanalyst and I haven't talked to her.
I don't know about her specifically, but you know, I'm not qualified to pass judgment on her particular diagnosis, but I know people do a lot who want attention and who, you know, they may feel even that they have a real Pain, or they have real memories or something, but usually it can be traced to something very specific, and it's a context that they need to put their pain in.
And they need a counselor that can actually help them not feed their fantasies, but actually help them move away from their fantasies into a productive life.
With what you've said, and I've listened to what you've said very carefully, hold tight where it is another break point.
It's very difficult for me to distinguish between a fact and fantasy here.
Magic is real, but the devil, or Satan, isn't.
I'm Art Bell.
To you it's me.
That's MITD-51.
Alright, my guest is Blanche Barton.
That's Blanche Barton and she is the former High Priestess of the Church of Satan, as well as now the Chairmistress of the Council of Nine.
She was Anton LaVey's partner in life.
I think that's probably a fair way to put it, and of course you also had a child, have a child, now.
Is that correct?
Yes, that's correct.
So, again, I'm struggling a little bit with this, Blanche, because on one hand you sort of lay out Satanism as humanism.
But then on the other hand, you'll go down that highway saying, well, yes, magic, some magic is certainly real, and much of the paranormal could be real, and certainly I've discussed a great deal of this, and that's kind of where you stop.
You don't continue down that road.
It seems to me once you've embraced the paranormal and the fact that magic, real magic, can be done, Then you have to be looking at a power beyond human power, humanism.
Okay, let's try this.
We start from the position that Humans are rational animals.
We're animals.
That's the seventh, you know, our foundational document is the ninth satanic statement.
And the seventh, if I may, if you will indulge me, Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all fours, who because of his divine spiritual and intellectual development has become the most vicious animal of all.
And we can see what's happening because of that viciousness to animals all around the world.
So we're, you know, we're Selfish and short-sighted creatures.
But instead of just leaving it at that, I could be an atheist, or I could be a humanist, but there's a whole, like, half of our brain that isn't addressed by atheism or humanism.
Because in Anton LaVey, for the first time in history, he reconciled the irreconcilable.
He reconciled The poetry, the mystery, the magic of being a human being, of writing symphonies, of writing great literature, of having visions and creating great architecture and creating love, relationships, all of these fantasies that are human, that are a big part of being human.
So, he fed that into sort of a pomp and mystery of satanic imagery.
So that we can utilize all the power within us.
And I don't see any...
Any irreconcilable there at all.
The power does not come from an external source.
It comes from me.
It comes from you.
It comes from the other people that are working with me for the same goals.
And that is now being quantified.
Again, getting back to recent books by Dean Radin and McTaggart and other people.
It's now being quantified in a scientific way that there is a group effect when several people, lots of people are concentrating in the same direction at the same time.
It does have a measurable effect.
I don't understand it and I don't pretend to understand the dynamics of it.
I think that scientists will be studying it more and more.
But, we're storytelling creatures.
You know, that's what we do.
If some alien came from another planet, imagine how weird it would look.
That we go to movies, that we watch these little boxes with all these stories on them, that we read these books, and they're all fantasies.
They're all stories.
Why do we do that?
Because we're storytelling creatures.
I mean, we gain strength.
from these metaphors and these images and these practices of various emotions.
And we like drama, we like symbols, we like passion, we like rituals and celebrations that bind us together and communicate our group values.
And that's all that Satanism is, like any other religion.
I've got an atheist that I bring on the show from time to time named Matthew Alper.
Very interesting guy.
Maybe you heard him one time.
Anyway, he wrote a book that I find fascinating and I would like to describe to you the premise.
The book is called The God Part of the Brain.
And it basically, I'm not going to do it justice here, but basically it suggests that all human beings And we include those who are found on otherwise uninhabited islands, you know, natives that worship one thing or another, you know, the sun perhaps, the moon, the trees, it doesn't matter, that human beings are programmed by something in our brain, or some part of our brain, that demands that we worship something, that we
Believe in some sort of deity greater than ourselves, and he thinks that they will eventually identify that part of the brain that that That causes this I I wonder how you feel about that because it is true if you look around the world Everybody just about everybody even you worship something Well, I hesitate with the word worship, except that I worship myself, but I don't worship something external.
Just metaphorically, that's a poetic representation of me.
Those images are poetic.
I certainly think it's a fascinating study, the God part of the brain.
I can definitely see that because it is a near universal that people like to, and what I've credited to, and I don't think I'm alone in this, is that it's a, and maybe he even includes this part, when we're in nature, when we're trying to survive, when we're in our earliest stages, our brains were developing Our survival depended on seeing patterns.
Seeing the Gestalt, seeing the tiger hidden in the trees.
And so we look for patterns and we try to make sense of things.
That's what we do all the time.
That's the scientific part of our mind, is trying to make sense.
And we like things to progress in beginning, middle, end.
We like things to be just.
We like for good people to get rewarded and bad people to go to a bad place and get punished.
We like that.
So we tell stories to ourselves that that's what's really happening.
So, yeah, I can see that that would be a very interesting study.
I would like to read his book.
I thought you might.
Alright, so I have a computer and I have this thing called the wormhole and they can go to a certain place and send me a message as I'm doing a program.
You know, like right now.
And before I read you anything, what would you imagine the response to your being on the program is tonight?
Oh, I think probably people are very happy to talk, to have a real Satanist telling them exactly what Satanism really is.
I would imagine, you know, in my mind, that's the way I would like it to be.
They say, Oh, what an interesting young woman.
I really enjoy hearing what Satanism really is.
And now when I find out that my boss is a Satanist, I won't be freaked out.
That's probably it.
All right.
Well, I would say it's more of a mixture.
For example, Oh my God, Art, how can you do this?
How can you put on this satanic crap?
Click.
Goodbye.
That's somebody scared.
And now I've got from Lizzie Roman in Indio, California.
Absolutely fantastic guest, Art.
Very intelligent woman.
Really enjoying this.
It's either love or hate, Blanche.
Yeah, I can see that.
People have that reaction to the Satanic Bible.
You know, Anton LaVey said that people will pick up his book, and they'll read it, and they'll either say, My God, I've felt this way all my life, but I didn't know what to call myself.
I guess I'm a Satanist.
That's exactly the way I feel.
Or they, you know, throw the book across the room in disgust.
You know, it's one way or the other, and that's fine.
That's great.
That's the way it should be.
All right, so then why not?
Call yourself a humanist and avoid all of this, you know, everything.
Because it wouldn't be addressing the essential problem that Satanism, calling it Satan, represents.
Satanism isn't just atheistic, it's anti-theistic.
And it's not just a matter of, oh, well, okay, so that works for them.
Okay, that's fine.
It's not fine.
People who are running our country, that are running our world, all around the world, most of them are basing their lives on irrationality and muddled thinking and scapegoating.
And these people are leading us in certain directions, economically, socially, ecologically.
And it's going to affect you.
One way or another, it's going to affect you.
And so, Satanists, by nature, choose active opposition.
You need something constructive for your life, not just a denial of something, like atheism.
Choose active opposition.
So, is it called Satanism only to choose having that opposition?
I think it's to recognize that humans, I see Satan as a quintessentially human metaphor.
He's the risk taker, he's the underdog, he's the one who triumphs even though he's He's the solitary romantic figure.
It's a human.
It's humans.
Not Jesus hanging on the cross and being nice to everybody.
We've fallen from grace, both of us, Satan and humans, have fallen from grace because of our self-determination and our pride.
And instead of sniveling and whining, We stumble forward by our own wit and our resourcefulness, and we create whatever life we can with the people that we love and cherish.
Are there sins in Satanism?
Yes.
Yes, there are, actually.
Strange you should ask that.
Anton LaVey came up with it.
Okay, how about commandments?
Yes, our nine satanic statements written and published in the Satanic Bible are our codifying statements, I would say.
So you really sound like a lawyer.
You know what the final ninth satanic statement is?
I think you'll enjoy it.
I'm listening.
Satan has been the best friend the church has ever had, as he's kept it in business all these years.
Yeah, well, there is that, isn't there?
It is the ultimate threat that keeps everybody in line.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
And why do you have to have a loving God that strong arms people into doing good?
Well, you know, God, historically, has a temper.
He's struck people down.
He's destroyed cities.
You're a kid, and you're getting shoveled this stuff from your parents.
They're telling you about this guy.
Where does he live?
I don't know.
He lives in a cloud somewhere.
We've got a space station up there, but they can't see him.
Well, he lives more over that way.
I don't know what he looks like.
Kids are smart.
They start asking questions pretty early on, and they understand when someone's avoiding the truth.
When they start feeling that Mommy and Daddy are not telling them the truth about this, Then they start calling into question everything that Mommy and Daddy tells them.
Well, you are right.
If you ask the wrong questions, even in Sunday school, you risk ejection.
Right!
But how do you feel about Mommy and Daddy lying to you?
Well, I don't think I blame Mommy and Daddy that I would say they're lying because they probably carry that belief that they're passing on.
Well, I don't see how any child can get past that.
That's when the trouble comes.
That's when you reach adolescence and you start realizing that maybe a lot of what you've been taught is not true.
And all of those sacred values, maybe they're not real.
And when you link ethics to the supernatural, that God tells you to do this, not
because it's right or wrong, not because essentially it's good for civilization
for you to make these decisions, but because some supernatural guy
with a long white beard is strong-arming you and threatening you
if you don't do right, then that's not good for society.
Again, that's not a good structure.
That's not a good foundation.
It should be because this is what is right for the world.
This is how we bind together as a human race.
If the world were to suddenly embrace Satanism, do you think that there would be far less violence, killing, and We're seeing so much... for example, people walk into movie theaters and just begin shooting and then take their own life.
That kind of stuff.
Do you think that Satanism would calm some of this down?
I would hope that people of a satanic mind would be more...
You have to remind yourself not to do that?
and the necessity of getting along with their fellow human animals.
I wake up in the morning and I say, I will not kill someone today, because I don't want
to be killed.
You know, I can tolerate a lot.
You have to remind yourself not to do that?
I do, yes.
But really, I mean, I think if the world were suddenly filled with satanists, which is never
ever going to happen, because again, you know, talking about different parts of the brain,
we always have to have the, you know, 2% who are the leaders or the innovators or the risk
takers and the rest of the people that really would rather just get along and not think
about things very much.
You know, just tell me what to do, tell me where to go, tell me what to buy.
and I'll be comfortable and you tell me what to do and that you know but but the Satanists who stand out the creative
people the eccentric people the weirdos
I think that they would be better at running things because they would
hopefully have actual discussions not ad hominem attacks
They would start talking about things, not pigeon-holing themselves and saying, well I'm a conservative so I have to vote this way, or I'm a liberal so I have to vote that way, and that's a bad person over there.
The Koch brothers are awful or evil, or the unions are awful or evil, because they're in the other camp and I don't have to listen to anything they have to say.
I just have to listen to what my party tells me to do.
And that's how we've gotten into the trouble that we have.
Because people aren't voting.
They aren't voting the issues or the man.
They're voting according to their party affiliation.
Hold it right there.
We're at a break.
I'm Art Bell.
This is Midnight.
Enjoy.
He came from somewhere back in hell long ago.
Saddleback the fool, don't see time in heart to recreate what's yet to be created.
Watching her life, she musters a smile for his nostalgic tale.
Never coming near what he wanted to say, only to realize.
It never really was, she had a place in his life.
He never really...
Oh, baby.
Will you partake of that last offered cup?
Or disappear into the potter's ground?
When the man comes around.
To initiate a dialogue sequence with Art Bell, please coordinate your phalanges and call 1952-225-5278.
That's 1952.
Call Art.
All right.
Blanche Barton is my guest.
52 78 that's one nine five to call art. All right Blanche Barton is my guest she
Was the high priestess their Church of Satan and she is now the chairmistress of the Council of nine
Blanche welcome back on I would like to, if you don't mind, circle back.
We sort of went right over it.
What are some satanic sins?
Ah, satanic sins.
The first one, you will not be surprised to know, the first one is stupidity.
That's the top of the list, because humans are, as I say, tend to be very short-sighted and selfish creatures.
I'm all for selfishness, but when you are so short-sighted that you don't see the consequences of what you're doing and the long-term consequences to the earth and to other humans and animals, then that's just being stupid.
A lot of those sinners out there.
Yeah, and the second one is pretentiousness.
Empty posturing.
It's very irritating.
Anton LaVey always had the idea that if you're a satanic priest, you should be able to take the garbage out.
You have to be able to come up with the goods, ultimately.
That's what made his philosophy so strong, what makes his philosophy so strong, because he was a very genuine person.
Whenever he would start When he'd have someone come over, a lot of times they'd want to talk about Satanism.
He didn't want to talk about Satanism all the time.
He'd want to talk about old movies, or cars, or guns, or music, or characters.
And, you know, people were not disappointed because he was a wonderful raconteur and a fabulous musician.
So if you were treated to an evening of music with him, you'd walk away very happily.
But he would say these things.
And when he sounded a little bit pompous or pontifical, or as he perceived himself to be taking himself too seriously, he'd undercut it with a joke.
He had a whole repertoire of jokes, and that was one of the books that I wish he had been able to put together before he passed away, was a book of satanic parables, which would have been all of his favorite jokes.
Okay.
While we're on that subject, and I want more sins, but while we're on the subject, it now has been 50 years Well, that's a very good question, actually, because we would have no way of knowing.
You know, he was the founder, he was the progenitor.
Was this just a personality cult, or did he create a philosophy with legs that actually can stand on its own and lead people to greater Do you proselytize?
interesting achievements and interesting things and I think the answer is that we're doing great.
We've got more members all the time, we've got more adherence all the time, we're being productive,
we're getting things moving and shaking in the world and yeah, he was a very strong leader.
Do you proselytize? I mean obviously you are doing that in a sense tonight, but I'm inviting that.
You don't knock on doors and hand out pamphlets, so how does the word get around?
Well, you know, the tradition of the left-hand path is that you have to seek it out.
It is a singular path and it's a dangerous path.
And so there are a lot of imitators out there, there are potholes along the road, but if you're drawn to Satanism and you like the metaphors and you like what What you've heard of Satanism, if you find it intriguing, then you know we have the website churchofsatan.com.
It's a portal for all the activities that a lot of Satanists are doing right now around the world.
And it's got a lot of materials on there for what Satanism is and isn't.
You said it was a dangerous path.
It is a dangerous path.
Why?
Because it's a singular path and it will lead you into It will lead you as close as you can get to madness.
What I mean by that is, if you are inculcated with Satan is evil, Satanists are evil all your life, and you step into that world and you're not ready for it, then your very fear will act against you.
You will conjure forth because the whole idea is that we're conjuring things, we're conjuring,
we're focusing our energy on what we want to achieve.
But you can undercut yourself, you can actually hurt yourself and if you're feeling guilty
or you're feeling afraid or if there's any residual ill feelings, and this is purely
psychological, this isn't magical, this is psychological.
When someone is doing something that deep down inside they're conflicted about, you
can manifest it physically with pain, aches, headaches.
Stomach upset and drawing all kinds of terrible things into your life, so it's not for everybody as I say It's a particular vibration that people find brings them joy happiness and inspiration But if you don't find that from Satanism run away and run away fast You know what a Ouija board is right?
Yes, okay?
I don't think a Ouija board per se is Is dangerous.
But I had a very, very bad experience with one that I will not discuss and never have publicly.
I think that it is the intent of the users of that board that brings about some of the bad experiences that people have had.
What do you think?
I'd say you're definitely on the right track with that.
I would also say that as I was trying to explain, if you have any residual doubts or fears or guilts That's a good medium for those things to open up to you and start attacking you.
But again, not from something outside.
You're conjuring it for yourself.
Well, now be careful.
Yes, perhaps you are conjuring it, but you at the same time admit there is something outside.
I admit that we create conduits for our own achievements and creating our own goals as we move through life magically, yes.
All right.
Some more sins we've got, too.
Stupidity, pretentiousness.
The third is solipsism.
That means expecting everybody else to be like you are.
You're a moral person, an ethical person.
You have certain values.
You're vulnerable to somebody that comes along and tries to steal your money because he doesn't have the same values.
But he might give you a wonderful line to try to convince you to part with your goods.
So you have to be on guard.
That's the essence of solipsism.
You have to be constantly vigilant and look through illusions that people are trying to You know, it's very Machiavellian.
Good advice, though.
Anything else that would catch our attention?
Let's see.
Self-deceit.
Herd conformity.
And the last one is lack of aesthetics.
You know, that's just a terrible sin.
Lack of aesthetics.
Yes, that's right.
Well, it's part of lesser magic, really.
It's a way of applying aesthetics.
And again, it does evoke a certain magic.
🎵 🎵 Oh, I feel the love that I was feeling all night 🎵
🎵 There's nothing left to do at night 🎵 🎵 It's so crazy, oh yeah 🎵
Midnight in the Desert spans the world.
To call us from outside the U.S.
and Canada only, use Skype with a headset mic, if on a computer, and call MITD55.
That's MITD55.
It is.
I'm Art Bell.
And with me tonight is Blanche Barton.
And it is evoking many comments, that's for sure.
Blanche was the High Priestess of the Church of Satan.
She is the Chairmistress of the Council And we have been discussing Satanism.
It may well be that your view of Satanism or what you thought you were going to hear tonight is not what you're hearing tonight.
You may be surprised pleasantly or you may be scared.
It's hard to say.
I think there's a lot of both out there, frankly.
Blanche, have you ever regretted being a Satanist?
Not one moment.
I've enjoyed every minute of it.
And that's an interesting thing, talking about 50 years of the Church of Satan.
And one of the questions is, Does it act as a religion should?
Does it help you guide your life to prosperity and happiness?
Does it help you work within a community?
Is it just, you know, put on black clothes, listen to heavy metal music, Marilyn Manson, and piss off your parents or something?
Or is it something that can actually lead you through getting a job, going to school, having children, raising children, deaths, births?
Yes, it does.
And it's a foundation for a lot of people who have been lifelong Satanists now.
And the most gratifying thing that happens to me sometimes now, and I'm humbled by it, is when people come up to me and they say, you know, Ms.
Barton, I've read your books.
I was a teenager.
I was being rebellious.
I went to Satanism, and I found out what it really was, and it really changed my life.
And now I'm a successful attorney or, you know, video producer or, you know, whatever they're doing with their lives, but they've made a life for themselves.
They're married.
They're not married.
They have children.
You know, they're happy, and that's very gratifying.
All right.
Are you ready to talk to the public?
Oh, absolutely.
Anytime.
It should be an interesting experience.
All right.
On Skype is Matt.
Hello, Matt.
You're on the air with Blanche Barton.
Hello, Blanche Barton.
Okay, back away from your mic a little.
You're too loud.
Is that better?
A little better, yes.
Thank you.
Okay.
Well, Art, I have to say, tonight's show is very controversial, which makes for excellent radio.
Well, look, I'm not afraid of anything.
I'll talk about anything that's interesting, and this clearly is so.
All right.
Well, Blanche, first of all, I'd like to say I greatly admire your conviction to your beliefs.
Obviously, it requires a lot of bravery and a tough skin.
Thank you.
Thank you very much, Matt.
Well, there are two topics I'd like to bring into the conversation.
Um, number one, a little thought experiment.
Hypothetically, if there was an evil cosmic entity, not necessarily the devil per se, but let's say, um, in the very nature of the cosmos there is a being that is pure evil, would it not be the best way for it to gain followers and supporters to do its will to convince its supporters that What they're doing is actually for themselves.
If that makes sense.
It does.
Yeah, I see where you're coming from, and you're not the first person that has presented that idea, you know, that the devil is ultimately, you know, the liar, so you can't believe anything he says.
But again, I use it as a metaphor for life, I use it as a representative of liberty, and if there was an evil, an absolute evil entity, and you could bring me proof that there was such an evil entity that was somehow I think so.
my mind, then that would be a very valuable thing to do.
But maybe this creature that you're talking about, it could be God just the same.
It could be someone like God who's got these people under His control and these humans
are giving me all this energy and I make them worship me and it doesn't matter to them.
I've got it worked so that there's this other guy that I blame all the bad stuff on.
And if they worship me and they give me energy, then I get stronger.
And, you know, it doesn't matter if I kill lots of kids or make people hate each other or kill lots of animals.
They'll still love me.
So, you know, I mean, I understand where you're coming from, but, you know, it's a thought experiment that doesn't go very far for me.
Okay, that's a fair answer.
And, um, you've also, you expressed that you admired cultural and industrial trailblazers, right?
Oh, yes.
Um, okay.
Well, you might know that many businesses, like, for example, Apple, you know, in California, they're practicing mindfulness and meditation, which is principles of Eastern Religions, belief systems that promote separation from the ego.
Now, it seems that your beliefs are sort of contrasting that, that it's self-worship and, I guess, reinforcement of the ego.
A lot of attachment going on here.
A lot of attachment going on, she said.
There is evidence that meditation and mindfulness can increase productivity.
Do you believe in karma?
Do you believe in reincarnation?
Is there even the possibility of such things?
That's a lot.
Karma?
I would suspect so, but let's ask.
Do you believe in karma?
Well, I hope that there are consequences.
I think that the way we perceive it is you're asking for the consequences that you get out of life.
You conjure forth what you get.
So yeah, there are definitely consequences for the actions that you take.
As far as getting back to your idea about meditation and consciousness, Yes, definitely, strengthening your own mind, strengthening your body, being able to use yoga, and strengthening the energies that flow through us.
I personally am a great follower of that, and I think a lot of Satanists are.
We're bioelectrical beings, and if we can concentrate that, again, that's what magic is about, is concentrating our energies, aligning ourselves with our true core.
And being able to release and bring in energy from around us and release it appropriately.
Okay, so as I've listened to the interview, you think there is something to karma, but if there isn't, there is a spell that will take care of it, right?
Yeah, we take care of that.
We're sort of the cleanup team.
You also asked about reincarnation.
Again, my mind is open to reincarnation, quite frankly.
Really?
Because personally, I've had some interesting experiences along those lines.
Like you with the Ouija board, I don't need to go into them.
But my mind is open to a lot of things.
You know, like Lewis Carroll said, I try to believe three unbelievable things before breakfast.
Wow!
Your mind is open to reincarnation.
That's a path unto itself.
All right, here's something Donnie sends on the computer.
Donnie and Sedalia, ask your guest about Anton LaVey's deathbed confession and accepting Jesus Christ on his deathbed.
It's all over YouTube and the Internet.
So if the Church of Satan, if this is true, the Church of Satan is bunk.
Well, there you go.
I am here to tell you that I was present in those final moments, and there was no deathbed confession.
There was no, hallelujah, I see it all now.
There was no, oh my God, please forgive me.
He had become more determined and more committed to his philosophy as he grew older, because he saw the way that the world was going, and he knew that he needed to be a voice for For that.
Okay.
Terry, somewhere out there, you're on the air with Blanche.
Where are you?
Hello.
Can you hear me?
I hear you.
Where are you?
I'm in Cincinnati, Ohio.
No, you're on the wrong line, then.
That's our international line, my friend.
I did Skype.
Right.
I'm very sorry.
You'll have to give us a call at MITD51.
MITD51 for North America.
You are on 55.
Let's try Lewis on North American Skype.
Hello, Lewis.
Good evening.
My questions are not judgmental, but just factual.
Is the Church of Satan recognized by the federal government for attack exemption?
And I'm curious if they're convicted of a crime and are put in prison, do they get any special treatment?
And finally, would she call herself a witch?
I'd miss that if she said so.
Those are my questions.
That's a lot of questions.
Hold on.
Don't go away.
Let's get answers.
Okay, the first question.
Yes, we are recognized as a religious entity by the United States government.
We're included in the Chaplain's Guide to military, to chaplains servicing military people, and that's updated periodically.
However, we do not take advantage of our tax-exempt status because one of our premises, vital
premises, is that all churches should be taxed appropriately, like any other business.
So as an ethical point, we do pay taxes.
The second question was...
In some sense, it's probably answered by the first.
That is, if necessary, if you were put in jail, for example, you would get special treatment
in terms of accommodating your practices.
It sounds like if you're in the first, you're probably in the second.
I don't know that as a fact.
We do have prisoners who contact us who say they're having trouble getting materials and they do try to provide, you know, it depends on the chaplain at the particular prison and the administrators of the particular prison.
Some of them are very open.
They should have the right to practice Satanism, at least get together with fellow Satanists and have their materials and perhaps rituals within the confines of the requirements of the prison.
You know, they can't have daggers and they can't have firearms, they can't have candles or certain things, but you know, just getting together to read the Satanic Bible, usually most prisons are very accommodating.
And yes, I would call myself a witch, I do.
Well, thank you for answering my questions.
Thank you, Mr. Bell.
Right, sure.
Thank you very much for the call.
I appreciate it.
We have so many.
Let's go to, uh, way back to West Virginia.
Hello?
Uh, yes.
You're on the air, sir.
Um, Art, you know, we've been talking about a lot of positive things about, uh, Satanism, but, uh, let's talk about satanic ritual abuse for a second.
Okay, let's.
Um, in the 80s especially, there was a lot of cases dealing, you know, we mentioned the government related daycares and the military bases, daycares.
There was a lot of children that came out of there with STDs.
And we were talking about the, uh, military and, uh, you know, while we're talking about Satanism, while we're talking about the military, let's bring up, Well, alright, let's deal with one at a time.
One at a time, alright?
Satanic ritual abuse of children.
That was addressed earlier, but Blanche, go ahead.
Yes, the McMartin preschool case, I believe one of the cases that he's referring to, was one of the most expensive and perhaps to date still the most expensive and extensive court case in California history.
A lot of accusations were thrown around, including that the kids were moved, During the rituals, some of them said they'd been put naked into a cage with a lion, and Chuck Norris was identified as one of their molesters.
They said that they had their faces smeared with feces and blood and urine, and that they'd seen babies cooked and eaten.
Yeah.
Back hoes were brought in.
Heavy machinery was brought in.
All of this was supposed to have taken place in tunnels beneath the preschool by the people that were running the preschool.
No tunnels were found.
No lions were found.
The most damning evidence that was found was toy rabbit ears and a candle.
I know that there was a lot of hysteria, but there were a lot of people going on shows to get attention.
I mean, I remember this, sir.
Don't you?
I mean, come on.
Oh, yeah, of course, yeah.
But you know, I want to go deeper than that.
Let's go deeper.
There's, you know, I mean, I've studied a lot into occultism.
There is power.
And, you know, even going back to There is power in what?
There is power in what?
Abuse?
Let's find out.
Hold on, hold on.
Let's find out.
Thank you for the call.
That's a pretty key point, I think, to address.
use or in abroad yet the blood of children the blood of ritual human
sacrifice find out let's find out and i can't believe their whole on hold on
let's find out thank you for the call that's a pretty key point i think to address he's saying
there is power in abuse or
in sacrifices or in what what about a plan to get Is there anything to it?
Well, this again was addressed quite keenly in the Satanic Bible, and I think it was a reaction to what Anton LaVey found with practitioners, or at least legends about practitioners of magic up until that point.
And he was disgusted by the idea that someone would take an innocent animal, even Aleister Crowley talked about animal sacrifice, And that someone would take an innocent animal and shed its blood to try to get some kind of power from that animal when the truth of the matter is it's a substitute for a good orgasm.
If you can't go into the ritual chamber and have a good orgasm, work yourself up into a real frenzy and let go of all that energy, let go of all your inhibitions and become a real human being in the ritual chamber, you have no business trying to perform magic at all.
Okay.
Straight on.
So that was all ridiculous.
Well, it was proven by the FBI to be ridiculous.
A lot of people, a lot of police, cops for Christ is what they were termed, who had these seminars that they were selling to various police forces around the country to try to gain money from them.
There were also a lot of counselors, religious or otherwise, that were getting a lot of money.
And there were the talk show people who needed Eccentric people to go on their shows and make a good controversial story.
So, everyone was gaining, except the real Satanists, you know, who would try to go on these shows to get another word in edgewise.
They didn't give me the kind of time that you've been kind enough to give me, Mr. Bell.
When we would get on, if we would even get on, to tell what Satanism was really about, we'd get maybe two sentences.
And the rest of the show would all be about baby breeders or or a lot of insanity.
So we didn't fit the paradigm.
And then they tried to, as a defense for that, they said, well, they didn't want to get sued by us.
So they'd say, well, we're not talking about you.
We're talking about bad Satanists.
We're talking about traditional Satanists.
They tried to make it into categories.
And Anton LaVey said, no, there are Satanists, and then there are nuts, just like there are Christians,
and then there are nuts.
You know, you can use the Easter bunny.
You can use Jesus.
You can use Buddha to justify whatever crimes you want.
But that doesn't mean that you're actually following that religious philosophy.
All right.
Very quickly, Leonard on Skype.
You're on the air with Blanche.
I called to disagree with Blanche.
She says that God makes you do what He wants, or do it well.
No, God gives you freedom of choice.
You can make your own choice.
God doesn't force you to do what He wants you to do.
Well, He threatens you.
He threatens you with eternal damnation and a fiery pit if you don't follow the rules, right?
He doesn't.
Oh, he doesn't?
Actually, he does.
I've heard the wrong stories, then.
Satan is what makes you do things.
So, in other words, anything you do that's bad, you can just sort of slough that off on Satan.
And that's the problem with scapegoating.
That's the essence of what we're trying to get across here, is that when you scapegoat people, like some people are doing in the Middle East right now, then you can go do whatever you want to them, and they don't deserve your empathy, they don't deserve your sympathy, because they are unclean, and they are demonic, and they are possessed, and they are evil.
So you can hurt them, and you can demonize them, and you can scapegoat them, and do whatever you want to them, because they are the others.
That's very dangerous thinking.
It's not an us versus them.
I'm a human being, you're a human being, Leonard, and we all have foibles, we all have faults, we all have strengths.
All right.
And we have to get together to find out how to solve problems.
All right.
Good.
Hold it right there.
We'll be right back.
I'm Art Bell.
this is midnight in the desert.
coming to you at the speed of light in the darkness this is midnight in the desert with
Now, here's Art.
Coming to you indeed at the speed of light.
Listen very quickly.
Let me give the numbers even though everything's full.
The public number is 952-225-5278.
952-225-5278.
The Skype doorways are in North America, Canada, America, MITD 5-1.
MITD 5-1.
Outside of North America, MITD 5-5.
That's MITD 5-5.
Atlanta Barton is my guest, and she is, was rather, the high priestess of the Church of Satan, and is The chairmistress of the Council of Nine.
Welcome back.
A couple of computer messages for you.
Dan says, she dodged the question.
It was about harming children, not animals.
Blanche?
Again, it's addressed in the Satanic Bible very clearly, and I think I've said earlier in this interview that we value children as our guides.
They're the closest to their natural state.
They haven't been inculcated with adults' guilts and all the things that children are are saddled with from a very early age in contemporary society.
I love to interact with children, and we would not harm any children.
That's very clearly stated in the Satanic Bible.
Alright, thank you for that clarification.
Calvin asks, or says, Hi Art.
Your guest is very well-spoken and charming.
Would you like to comment on the Church of Satan trying to sue the state of Oklahoma to put up a statue at the Capitol?
It seemed to me to be an attack on Christianity.
That is not the Church of Satan.
That is an unaffiliated, small group that we consider rather laughable.
They came off as sort of street performers, you know?
They're trying to put some kind of uh... wedge between uh... they're trying to create controversy regarding uh... the church and state like if they try to put this statue in and that'll force other people out of the public square the true satanic posture as articulated very well by our high priest is that we believe in the founding father's vision of
Separation of church and state.
not having any Buddhist or Hindu or Satanic or Wiccan or Christian association because
it's very dangerous when church and state are working concert.
Then you've got the civil aspects and you've got the magical aspects of the boogeyman that
are going to hurt you if you don't do right.
And our founding fathers were as close as they could be to deists.
The ones who were the real movers and shakers, Thomas Jefferson and Paine, they were deists
and they didn't believe in a God having real effect in your life.
Of course, in those days you had to posture toward Christianity a lot, but they were free
thinkers.
I think that America is a quintessentially Satanic country.
We grew right out of the scientific revolution and the enlightenment.
And, you know, people like James Madison, John Adams, that's a whole different conversation.
Nevertheless, the Founding Fathers saw the danger of mixing it and wrote it out.
Precisely.
Okay, Terry, somewhere or another you're on the air with Blanche Barton.
Hello.
Hello.
I'm from Cincinnati, Ohio.
Okay.
And I wanted to say it's an honor to talk to both of you.
Thank you.
I became a member of the Church of Satan in the early 1990s.
I was brought up going to Southern Baptist Church and the youth groups and they pounded
the Satanic Bible as the ultimate evil book and all this.
So eventually I read the Satanic Bible and it was like getting cold water thrown in your
face.
It was like it's just reason and logic and open-mindedness when it comes into the areas
of the supernatural and magic.
So that's kind of what my take was.
I became a member.
I knew they weren't going to pound down my door and have me go to meetings and all this just out of respect for the logic that was put down and given, you know, to where I saw my ideals on page and it was like awesome.
Nobody pounded down your door, I take it.
No.
I have two questions real quick.
One for the Blanche.
Are you familiar with the studies on the pineal gland and the human brain,
like essentially the third eye and like DMT, the release of DMT, and how that kind of,
I believe, goes in with magic and all that.
And then also in your personal magical experiences, do you, like for me, sometimes, you know,
I feel real strong and then it's like the, I feel weak sometimes in magical nature.
And I don't think it's like, because I'm physically sick or I'm going through emotional stress,
just like those waves of power and energy, like do you have, have you had that experience yet?
That's all.
All right.
Number two first, then we'll hit DMT.
Blanche?
Yes, things do come in waves.
I think the wave has been proven to be essential to the Earth in general.
There's a waxing and a waning that humans are also aligned with and within your own magical practice it's very probable that some days, you know, and again this has been measured scientifically, some days you feel alert and on top of things and right on top of your game and then other days you just feel sort of dissipated and Okay.
Drugs and Satanism.
He mentioned DMT.
So yes, and I have heard about you know the pineal gland and and how that's it's a known chakra
They're a very powerful one. So, you know, they're there been a lot of people
Throughout the millennia who have talked about the third eye and its importance to to magic and meditation. Okay
drugs and Satanism he mentioned DMT Are there are many who feel that drugs open the mind in in?
Away and and surely they do What do you think? What does the church think? I I can only
refer back again to Anton LaVey Of course, he started the Church of Satan in in the
um...
60s in San Francisco, you know 1966 the summer of love there were people dropping acid all
over the place and there were people that were pointing to acid as a method a gateway to
wonderful enlightenment and concentration and new worlds and new achievements and
He had a hard and fast rule that he did not allow allow people that were drunk or high in the ritual chamber
Because things could be very misconstrued people could become violent. They could become distracted and
distracting and He felt that you know, that was not that was not the way to
perform magic that you need to be Concentrated you need to be clear on your intent and what
you're doing in the ritual chamber. So I I suppose there are plenty of people that use recreational drugs, but again, if you're doing it illegally, then you have to suffer the consequences if you get caught.
And if we know about it, then you'll probably get kicked out of the organization.
My goodness.
All right.
Let's go to Calgary, Alberta.
On the phone.
Hello.
Going... Wait a minute.
I didn't press the right button.
Calgary, Alberta.
Hello?
Hello, yes.
Hi, you're on the air.
Hi, this is Nick from Calgary.
I know you're probably super tired of fielding questions about satanic ritual abuse, but I have one from kind of a weird angle, if that's okay?
Let's hear it.
Okay, in the wake of the death of Jimmy Savile, this British TV presenter and entertainer, It's come out that in Britain, at least, there actually was a massive pedophile conspiracy in the 1980s and late 70s.
But it wasn't Satanists.
Heaven knows there's pedophiles all over the world, sir.
Yeah, but it's conservatives.
And at this point, the investigation has gone so far as to implicate former prime ministers.
And your point is?
My question is, how do you respond to the moral hypocrisy?
Because again, these are the same people who wanted to ban gay people from teaching, who wanted to exclude non-Christian religions from public venues.
And at the same time, it's now coming out that this alleged are yes i would love to see all over the world
i mean my goodness it's it
it's just it and for his own comment on
you know um...
the fact that the enemies are you know the squares to the squares these are
young there there's no and to the height of hypocrisy i I don't know how else to put it.
Well, when he started talking about a massive pedophile ring, I thought he was talking about the events in the Catholic Church.
And I'm not kidding because, you know, they were moved around and protected, and that was a terrible breach of trust.
That's undeniable, absolutely undeniable.
I don't know how the Church ultimately is going to deal with it, but... Right, but I don't I mean, I won't give it a cheap shot.
I mean, it was terrible.
It was an awful thing, but I don't then equate, you know, all of Christianity with pedophiles.
You know, these were individuals that unfortunately were protected by a structure that didn't want The embarrassment, and a lot of children suffered abominably because they wanted to protect their structure.
But they've had to look at that now, and they've had to own up to it and act appropriately.
As for, you know, the conservatives, a pedophile ring, I would have to know the specifics.
I know they would have to... I don't think that it's associated with Satanism, is it?
No.
No.
No, no, no.
That isn't what he was saying.
And I was saying there's no end.
He was talking about conservatives and then some of them being outed as pedophiles and there is no end to that kind of hypocrisy.
Right.
Let's go to Skype.
Of course we're against hypocrisy.
That's one of the reasons that the Church of Satan was founded, because of that hypocrisy.
Helix Angel, is that right on Skype?
Yes, actually my name is Paula.
Okay.
I'm from Winchester, California.
Okay, well that's what's on your Skype.
That's all I can do is call you by what's on Skype.
Okay, thank you.
I have a question.
Thank you for your enlightening discussion tonight.
Sure.
I'm actually interested in that.
I do have a question though.
Why do you consider, I have a number of friends that have Wiccans, and why do you consider them to not practice magic properly?
Well, if they're practicing magic and it's working for them, my only beef with Wiccans, well, two beefs, really, is, one, they worship a horned god, and if you're worshiping a horned god, I don't see why you don't just call it Satan, you know?
You can call it Han, you can call it Lucifer, because it's more comfortable for you, but, you know, just grow a pair and call it Satan, you know?
Yeah, I'm just asking this as a, like, I was talking to one of them at the moment and I was like, did you just say that?
But yeah, thank you, thank you!
The other point is that during the Satanic Panic, a lot of Wiccans were asked, you know, well what about Satanists?
Do they do bad things?
Or they were attacked, they were thrown into the same Same boiling pot of water with Satanists in these
accusations and instead of coming forward and saying yes, I'm a Wiccan
I've read about Satanism. I know Satanists And they don't do bad things
Instead a lot of them actually crawled on the bandwagon to protect themselves and said oh, we're good witches
But those people over there. I don't know what they're doing so I was
There is no good and evil.
There is no good and evil.
That was a long time ago, granted.
But there's still an essence of us versus them, good versus evil in there, you know.
Whereas, I say, you know, don't put yourself in a protective circle.
Invite your demons in, you know.
Own what you are as a human being and deal with that.
All right.
Thank you.
All right.
You're very welcome.
Thank you for calling.
Interesting.
Very interesting, actually.
Going to, I think, Allentown on the phone.
Hi.
Hi.
It's Johnny from Pennsylvania.
Yep.
Yes, sir.
Am I on the air?
Oh, you certainly are.
I apologize.
Yeah, I have one question and a... Hi, Blanche.
Hi.
I have a question and an example.
So the question is, you talk a lot about You know, the human intelligence and how we're the better, smarter animals now.
We're the more vicious animals and the next step of evolution.
That's why we're the top of the chain.
So the question is, can you conceive of an intelligence greater than man's intelligence that would require a man to have faith?
And the example that I would use is Abraham from the Bible, who waited a hundred years to have his son.
And then when he has a son, God tells him, take him up on the mountain and sacrifice him.
Which seems crazy to us.
I mean, God had a really hard time with that.
But then if you look at it 2,000 years later, God allows His own Son to be sacrificed for a greater cause.
So can you see that that's possible?
Not necessarily right or wrong, just that there might be something.
Well, God did request that or order that as a proof of faith, right?
Yeah.
It's faith.
It's really faith against intelligence.
Faith seems irrational, and it's always going to.
But that doesn't mean it is.
That doesn't mean it's wrong.
You see what I'm saying?
Yes, I get your point.
The first thing I'd like to address is the idea that I feel that humans are top of the food chain and more highly evolved than other animals.
I think the point that I was trying to make and that Anton LaVey has made with the seventh satanic statement that I read is that because we quote-unquote feel that we are so divine and spiritual and intellectual, We have become the most vicious animal of all, meaning that other animals are being the best animals that they are being.
Humans don't always live up to their potential.
They throw a lot of log jams in their own way.
They're more afraid of their own success than they are of their own failure.
But humans, like a simple spider or a bird, they're out there doing their birdy little things.
They're doing the best they possibly can, and they use every resource that they can.
They go toward pleasure, they avoid pain, and they do it in the most efficient manner they can, which is what biologists define life as, is, you know, those three elements.
And so, don't think that I'm saying that humans are so superb and wonderful compared to other animals, because I truly don't.
But getting to your point with faith, As a Satanist, I feel that faith is the ultimate betrayal of all we are as humans.
You know, I understand your point about sort of giving yourself over to a greater power and trusting in that power, but I can't do that.
I can't relinquish that.
If I do that, if I give up my independence, my discernment, if I give up the ability to question things scientifically and challenge everything, I've given up everything that we've evolved to be over the last few million years.
And I can certainly understand that, especially now, in this day and age, we know so much as humans.
If certain visions of reality can be believed, we have plunged into materialism and are cut off from what we used to be able to see as spirit.
Sorry, I'm sorry to do this, caller, but I'm way short on time, and you can respond to that when we get back, but we've got to take a very brief break.
So, Blanche, hold on.
What a show, is what I would say.
What a program.
I suspect not what you thought it would be.
Blanche Barton is my guest.
I'm Art Bell.
I'm Art Bell.
Wanna take a ride? Your conductor Art Bell will punch your ticket. When you call 1952,
call Art. That's 1952-225-5278.
Alright, well I think we should all have a moment of silence. Tonight's show has got
to be pretty serious evidence that J.C. is a liar.
has passed away.
If not, you know, he certainly would have been here.
He's been absent from his Facebook page since early, well, before mid-July.
And so, just a moment of silence for he who would have been here, if he could have been.
And with that, back to Blanche Barton.
And Blanche, I held this caller over because I don't think he was finishing his thought.
Caller?
Yeah, I was saying we've plunged into materialism.
It's very difficult now without prophets and things like that, real prophets, to show us what God's really saying, to have any kind of faith, because really all we have left is the light of human reason.
Albert Pike talks about it in his Freemasonic writings as something we don't need to have superstition about, or faith.
And that's absolutely true.
We don't.
But for me, it's not enough.
And I guess the real question is, I think the question goes out to everybody.
Do you believe in your own intellect, or man's intellect, or do you believe in God, or faith, or Christ, or whatever you want to call it?
I think there's something greater than man.
It's hard for me to imagine that there's not.
Blanche, you want to comment?
Well, I'm a big advocate of materialism.
What we can see, what we can feel, the human body, the human brain, our emotions.
I'm a big believer in the sins, and I try to practice at least one a day.
Lust and gluttony are two of my favorites.
But not to be flippant, I understand.
He seems like a very sincere man, Johnny.
I feel that there is a lot of materialism going on in the world as well, and we're sacrificing happiness in a certain way because of it.
Recently, I was at a conclave, a gathering in Washington, D.C.
of Satanists at the end of April, and I gave a little talk.
It was a wonderful gathering with terrific people there.
many different professions and it was great to be in a room full of people that you don't
have to explain your basic thoughts to, who are all attuned with what we were thinking.
But there is a difference between greed and satisfaction.
And what we're doing to the earth is a consequence of unbridled greed and not looking down the
road to see the consequences of what we're doing.
And that is a real problem.
But again, that doesn't come from somebody, Satan or some demons or some God whispering
in my ear.
That comes from looking around and seeing what's happening to our planet and crying
I mean and wanting to do something about it so All right.
Trey in Atlanta, Georgia, I think.
Hi.
Hey, Art.
How are you doing?
Very well.
Thank you.
I wanted to first extend our love to Ann and Whitley.
Yes.
Very sad.
And Blanche, it's an honor to speak with you.
Thank you.
I was curious.
I had just watched Devil's Reign that Anton had been in.
Yes.
And I was wondering if you could tell us about his experiences with Ken Anger and Hollywood.
Yes, he had a wonderful relationship with Kenneth Anger.
Kenneth Anger was, again, in the 60s San Francisco scene very much, and he's an innovative filmmaker.
He used techniques that were Sort of, I guess in the psychedelic realm, but they're very effective films, and I know he has a lot of fans to this day.
He influenced a lot of small films, and they were very good friends.
I think he's sort of drifted away since Dr. LeVay has passed.
He's gone in other directions.
But yes, they were very good friends for a long time.
The Devil's Reign was a wonderful set to work on.
Dr. LeVay said he had a wonderful time.
William Shatner, John Travolta, the director was a great director.
They were in Mexico filming and he did lots of interviews with people who were interested in his philosophy.
And yes, Ida Lupino was also on that cast.
Wow.
And yeah, he made some good friends and they had a whopping good time.
I would also point out we had just coincidentally watched Paradise Lost, the childhood murders at Robin Hood Hills tonight.
And for all the satanic panic people that still don't get how bad this paranoia was, watch that movie and realize what this madness caused and how it's ruined lives.
A lot of pain, and one element of it also that I didn't bring up is the separation.
I mean, it's hard enough for teenage kids to talk to their parents and parents to talk to their kids, but when you've got this film between you of people from your church or people in authority telling you to look for your children, see if they're wearing black clothes or if they're playing Dungeons and Dragons or if they have stained glass or if they're spending too much time alone, they may be dabbling in Satanism and this may be leading them to criminal
activities How can you possibly communicate with your child when you're
burning the records that is that are giving him strength and inspiration?
So it did cause a lot of pain for a lot of people a lot of wounds there
Well, thank you both It's been an honor.
Yeah, thank you, Trey.
Thank you very much.
Very, very interesting.
A lot of, actually, very interesting callers tonight, and I hate to do this, but we're coming up on another break, so relax for a few moments.
We'll come back and take a final full set of calls.
My guest is Blanche Barton.
She is a high priestess, or was, of the Church of Satan, and is now
paramistress of the Council of Nine.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
And I think tonight is a perfect example of that.
one nine point two two two five fifty two seventy eight i think it's the uh...
job of long-form talk radio to examine things that frankly you didn't know about and i think tonight is a
perfect example of that
a lot of from uh...
what does it work actually Sue the Wormhole asks, please ask Blanche if there are any satanic holidays and what do they celebrate and how?
That's a great question, actually.
I should have brought that up myself.
True to our egotistic philosophy, our favorite holiday of the year is, of course, my own birthday.
That's what I celebrate and all my friends celebrate it and tell me how wonderful I am and give me lots of support.
After that, we have Walpurgisnacht, which is a traditional magical night.
A lot of important things have happened on Walpurgisnacht, including the founding of the Church of Satan in 1966.
And then after that, we like to celebrate, depending on, you know, what your particular likes and dislikes are, but most of us acknowledge at least the equinoxes and the solstices, and other dates that are particularly important to us, whatever our context is.
On this most important holiday for you, do you go out and buy yourself something really cool and expensive?
Absolutely, yes.
And usually very tasty.
John, you're on with Blanche.
Hi.
Hello Art, and hello Blanche.
How are you guys doing?
Fine.
Good.
Great.
Okay, Blanche, I wanted to ask you, my understanding was that After the passing of Anton LaVey that there was a kind of a schism in the Church of Satan between like Michael Aquino and Anton LaVey's daughters, Zina and the other girl.
And I was wondering if you could tell me, give me some information on that and maybe tell me if you, if you and yourself were involved or if you knew anything about how the whole thing played out.
Okay.
Was there a schism?
No, there wasn't any schism.
That's sort of one of those ideas, I guess, like Anton LaVey's deathbed confession or something.
But it was really rather uneventful.
I'd been acting in the capacity of high priestess.
I took over as high priestess.
I continued the philosophy until I passed the reins to Peter Gilmore, who is our present high priest in doing a wonderful job of that. He has
published a wonderful collection of essays
called the Satanic Scriptures and I would, for further information about
Satanism, I would definitely point people in that direction and Peggy Nedremia is our high priestess.
I think one of the keys to our survival after Dr. Levay passed away has been the continuity that we've
had.
The people that are behind the organization that are articulating and clarifying his philosophy are absolutely in concert and have a deep and abiding understanding of all the aspects of what he put together in the philosophy of Satanism.
You know, as I say, both the rational and the poetic sides, and the carny sides, and the robust black capes and black candles side.
Okay.
Going to the phones, you're on the air with Blanche.
Hi.
Hi, Art.
Hi, Blanche.
My name is Dean, and I've been in San Francisco my whole life, and I lived out in the avenues, so I knew about the house out there, the black house out on California Street.
Blanche, the last caller kind of touched on what I was going to talk about.
The 60s, from what I see, you're a little bit younger than me.
And in the 60s, I was about 19 or 20 in the late 60s.
And there were so many charismatic people like Anton.
There's no doubt that he had a big ego.
There's no doubt that he drew a lot of people around him.
I picked up hitchhiking a couple of Satanists up on Mount Tam one time whose car had broken down.
So I guess my question is, I know Carla.
Not super well, but I dated her back when we were both 19, and I beg to differ.
I heard that there was quite a schism.
The house ended up being boarded up.
If there's so much power in Satanism, why all this bad blood, and why are you guys fighting among each other, and why did everything go south?
Well, as I say, I don't believe it did go south.
I believe I've been trying to explain that we are alive and well and that we're continuing to move forward in our philosophy.
Carla and Zena, neither one were involved directly with the administrative side of the organization.
At the time of their father's death, Zena had, if you want to get into the messy details of it, it's not messy on my part, but it's rather embarrassing for her that she chose to disown her father years before his death and never reconciled with him.
Carla had reconciled with him.
They'd been off and on.
She had been involved in her life, and she had periods of separation from her dad, but she did reconcile with him Toward the end of his life, but you know neither one of them were qualified to Be in a leadership position within the organization, and I don't think their father ever expected them to be Carla had done some spokes spokesperson roles in the early days, and she was comfortable with that I suppose but there We're all cohesive, and we're moving forward with articulating what Satanism is and can be.
Well, I understand that she puts on this, what she calls, Black Christmas every year, and I'm not clear.
Maybe you could clear that up.
I thought that Anton and Carla and Zina were all Jewish-faith before this all started, and before he went in Life Magazine and posed and got quite tight with Hollywood, you know?
Is that true?
No, that's not true.
Certainly, Zena and Carla never got any inculcation into the Jewish faith.
And as far as Dr. LeVay's inculcation, his mother told him that God is nature.
That's all it is.
And she didn't go any further than that.
I think ethnically, he had ethnic background as being of a Jewish background, but he never practiced and he was never attracted to that.
He was never brought up in that faith at all.
All right.
Not a lot of time.
Jeremy, you're on with Blanche.
Hi.
Hey, Art.
How you doing?
Just great.
Where are you?
I'm in Louisville, Kentucky.
Okay.
And I'm actually the guy that emailed you at your other email address.
Thank you.
No problem.
Yeah, I have two quick questions for Blanche.
So, according to your views, I'm not going to say consequences, but what are the non-benefits of not following the Church's beliefs?
What are the non-benefits of not?
You mean if you're an actual member or if you're just an adherent to the Satanic philosophy?
If you're adherent to the philosophy of the Church.
Well, you mean like if you actually commit the sin of stupidity?
No, what I'm saying is if you don't follow the belief system that the church promotes, what are the non-benefits?
Well, you don't get things the way you want them, and your life doesn't work very well.
That's the consequences.
This is a philosophy that advocates lesser magic and greater magic to move you forward in your life and find satisfaction and have a great party.
You know, it's your party, and it's the only one you get, as far as we know.
So, if you're not having a good time and you're not being successful, then you're the one that's responsible for that.
Well, you did allude to the possibility of reincarnation.
That's my own personal belief.
That's not Church of Satan policy.
That's my own speculation and romantic ideas.
And the other question is, it seems like you guys are kind of borrowing the number 666 from Babylonian astrology.
Is that true?
I don't think 666 ever came up in this conversation.
It's not particularly interesting to me, other than that it interests other people.
Okay, because I'm reading on your website, so what you're saying tonight is quite different from what I'm reading on your old website.
You're reading the Church of Satan website.
Correct, yes.
It's like you're trying to promote a, you know, like a materialistic intellectualism, but from what I'm reading on the website, it's quite a different story, so I'm trying to find out little bits and pieces of what your thought was in terms of that specific number according to the church.
Alright, that's a good, actually a good question.
Well, that may be the wrong website.
You better check again.
Yeah, that's what I was going to ask.
Does your official website, what is it, please again Blanche?
ChurchofSatan.com That's where I'm at, yeah.
And you're seeing things about embracing the triple six over there?
Yeah, it says the 666 is considered a shorthand signal heralding diabolism.
Hmm.
Yeah.
Does that make sense, Blanche?
Well, we do use the sign of the horns.
Anton LaVey is giving the sign of the horns on the back of the Satanic Bible.
And that, of course, has been adopted by a lot of rockers.
Uh, but the 666 really doesn't have a big reference point for me or most Satanists, except for the amusement that other people seem to really give it a lot of potency.
These guys are all based out of New York, right?
The administration office?
Uh, yes.
Okay, because your PO Box is even 666.
Oh yes, that's true.
That's fun.
Sounds like they're more having fun with it than anything.
Yeah, exactly.
Yes, I see your point.
Yes, we do have a 666 box.
And I have a 666 box for my newsletter as well.
And it was available and, you know, why not take it?
Just because other people seem to think it's so important.
It's kind of a wink.
Just a wink.
Towards the Book of Daniels was a link towards Babylonian astrology.
It's a link.
If you wanted to link to that, sir, then it links to that.
I guess people, you know, make up their own links.
I don't know.
Indio, California, on the phone.
Your Honor, Blanche, hello.
Hello, Art.
Thank you very much.
Sure.
Listen, everything that I'm hearing from her is Pretty much the opposite of what I experienced.
In the late sixties, um, Anton was on a daytime talk show and they said, Oh, we're having a witch's meeting tonight and blah, blah, blah.
And so my girlfriend calls me and she goes, Oh, let's go.
So we went and we walked up to this house in San Francisco, walked up the stairs and this lady entered the door in black.
I mean, it was dark.
It was spooky.
And here's a stuffed leopard by the door.
Not, er, a panther.
No, it was a leopard.
I think you're right.
Pardon me?
She knows.
She said leopard.
Oh, oh, it was.
Okay.
So we went into this meeting.
It was a witches meeting.
And I have never experienced anything like that.
I felt as... Anton was very captivating.
I mean, I can see why people were drawn to him.
He was just magnetic, sat in this big chair like a, you know, the king, and with this, I remember this brass thing above his head on the wall, I guess, or something, and big fireplace, but the witch, you know, it was a witch's meeting, and then they got into how the witches were talking about how they had put spells on somebody, and such and such happened to them, and it was like, He was going, oh good.
When I left there, I felt like I'd been to the Addams Family house.
It must have made quite an impression on you to remember it this many years later.
Oh my God, I'll never forget it.
I think he accomplished his goal then.
Alright, well listen, thank you very much.
That was interesting.
She did obviously remember it very clearly.
Somewhere in California.
Hello, you're on the air.
Not a lot of time.
Yeah, I'm calling from Hawaii.
Hawaii?
Actually, yeah.
Art, I'm so glad you're back.
You make my night so good.
Thank you.
But anyway, with your guest, I find it very interesting that she, avoiding the fact that this man You're saying, did such good things, is doing the work of Satan.
And, I mean, we all know that his biggest trick is to convince you that he doesn't exist.
So, you know... Well, I would have to say that what she has said is consistent with that.
That he doesn't exist?
Well, yeah, more or less, right.
If you listen to the interview, she basically... Yeah.
Well, one last thing.
I did grow up in San Francisco and I remember as a kid having to go by that spooky house and run by it and all the kids and stuff.
I heard that some neighbors disappeared after complaining about his pet lion in the backyard.
Is that true?
Yes, they did.
There was a film, actually, called Satanus, and it's wonderful.
It's kind of hard to find, but if you find it, there were interviews with the neighbors and talking about seeing the lion and the weird rituals through the front For the front windows and they all seem quite captivated by it.
But yes, there were complaints about the lion and he had to give Togar to the zoo and it was heartbreaking for him because they were very close.
And those neighbors then disappeared?
Various things happened to them.
I think there were some medical issues.
Some of them moved away, as neighbors tend to do.
All right.
Barbara, you're on the air with Blanche.
Hello, Barbara?
Can you hear me?
Yes, I hear you, but you sound very hollow.
So, Barbara, listen to me.
Barbara?
Barbara?
Hello, Barbara?
Can you hear me?
Yes, I can.
Okay.
You sound like you're in a hollow tunnel, so you're going to have to find the microphone on your computer and get really close to it.
Really close.
Can you hear this?
No.
Look for the little tiny hole.
It's the laptop.
It has a little hole there, and you've got to get right up to that.
How about this?
Now you're cooking.
That's much better.
Okay.
What is the policy of the Church of Satan regarding the afterlife?
Okay.
Our policy is that we don't know, that there's not enough evidence to prove that there is an afterlife, and since we can only assume that there is not, it's better to err in the direction that there is not, and get the most out of every breath that you have right now, today, here and now, because you don't know what's afterwards, and you don't know when it'll end.
I see.
So then you don't believe that Anton is anywhere right now?
I believe that he's represented in a lot of people who respect his philosophy, and that if we have any hope of immortality, perhaps that's all we get.
I'm not sure that there's any entity that survives, any consciousness that survives.
I could be wrong.
I'm open to suggestions, and I'd love that to be true.
But I don't have enough evidence to believe that right now.
All right.
We are at the end of the program.
I just have no more time.
I wish I did.
It just flew by.
Blanche Martin, thank you so very much.
If people want to know more, you would recommend they go where?
To churchofsatan.com.
That's a wonderful portal for a lot of information there.
And even about 666 and what that means to us.
So it does have a meaning.
Oh, absolutely.
Yes.
Okay.
It's whatever meaning one wants to give it.
That's what it's all about.
Carefully stated.
Blanche, it has been a pleasure having you on the program.
Thank you so very much.
Thank you for being out here, Art.
We really appreciate you being out again on the air.
Take care.
Take care.
Well, there you have it.
As I just said, I feel that the job of long-form talk radio Is to look into things that others don't look into.
That's what we do here.
Sometimes you tune in, sometimes you tune out.
For The World's Time Zones, I'm Art Bell.
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