Tom Carey and Walter Hout’s 2002 affidavit—released posthumously in 2007—details Roswell’s 1947 recovery of a 12–15 ft egg-shaped craft with unidentifiable, non-radioactive metal foil and two 3.5–4 ft "humanoid" bodies (grayish skin, oversized heads) under heavy guard in Hangar P. Hout, the base PR officer, claims Colonel Blanchard ordered a cover-up after initial reports of a "flying disc," while witnesses like Bob Shirky and Dan Dwyer’s daughter describe telepathic communication and threats from military figures, including Senator Chavez. With 90% of original witnesses now gone, Carey argues Roswell’s suppressed evidence—like destroyed records and memory metal—points to an extraterrestrial visit, challenging decades of official dismissals. [Automatically generated summary]
I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the world's time zones, prolific as they are in each and every one, covered like a blanket by this program, the largest of its kind in the world, Coast to Coast AM.
I'm Art Bell.
It's my honor and privilege to be escorting you through the weekend.
And in a moment, a couple of moments, be honest, we're going to talk about Roswell.
As you know, it's the 60th anniversary of Roswell.
My guest tonight is going to be talking about Roswell.
And here in the first hour, we're going to be talking about Roswell for a really good reason.
Breaking news.
First, though, let us look at what's going on in the world.
Never all that pleasant.
A Jeep Cherokee, I'm sure you've seen this, if you watch the news, how could you miss it?
Trailing a cascade of flames, rammed into Glasgow's airport terminal on Saturdays, shattering glass doors just yards from passengers at the check-in counters.
Police said they believe the attack was linked to two car bombings, two car bombs rather, found in London the previous day.
Britain raised its terror alert to critical.
That would be the highest possible level.
And the Bush administration announced plans to increase security at airports and on mass transit now.
There is a lot of speculation that this may be Al-Qaeda, that they are linked and that it has all the signatures of Al-Qaeda and all the rest of it.
Well, if that's true, not to belittle the tragedy of the attack, but it seems like kind of a step down for Al-Qaeda.
I mean, this is one vehicle that rammed into the airport, and I think a guy poured some gasoline on himself and set himself on fire.
Horrible, of course, but somehow or another, in scale, not a whole lot.
The car bomb scare in London and the attack Saturday at the Glasgow airport underscore the need for secure borders for the U.S., according to one of our Republican presidential hopefuls, Rudy Giuliani.
Quoting here, this is the United Kingdom, he said.
They have security that is every bit equal to ours.
They have intelligence services that even have had more experience with terrorism than ours.
He said, you know, they have to be subjected to this.
We're in an era in which we need to know everyone who's in the United States.
Makes sense.
Hong Kong's red flag was raised.
Now, I don't know who wrote this, but it says, Hong Kong's red flag was raised into a cloudy blue sky Sunday.
A cloudy blue sky as a former British colony marked the 10th anniversary of its handover to China and bid farewell to a rocky decade of financial woes, disease outbreaks, and of course, economic recovery.
The next 10 years could be just every bit as challenging for the bustling city on China's southern coast.
Hong Kong will likely grapple with democratic reform and face growing competition from other Asian cities, threatening its position as a global business capital.
The harder President, this is an analysis which concludes only the Iraqis can win the war.
The harder President Bush has pushed to win in Iraq, the closer he has come to losing.
The question is no longer whether the U.S. military can fully stabilize Iraq.
It cannot.
Now, they don't say in the story who did the analysis.
Returning residents who had evacuated their homes this week are keeping a very close watch tonight on the Brazos River, which officials expected to swell yet again on Sunday after opening another floodgate at a nearby lake.
The river expected to crest at about 26 feet, a foot above flood stage.
That's a foot of water.
That's a lot.
Brazos River Authority officials opened a fourth floodgate at the Possum Kingdom Lake in North Texas on Saturday afternoon.
All right, in a moment, it's a very serious flooding, very serious in Texas.
In a moment, we're going to look at some breaking news about Roswell.
What I'm about to read you comes from news.com.au, meaning from Australia, news.com in Australia.
And this is a hell of a story.
Some of you may already have heard this.
The news has been kind of around a little.
Exactly 60 years ago, a light aircraft was flying over the Cascade Mountains in Washington state at a height of around 3,000 meters.
Suddenly, a brilliant flash of light illuminated the aircraft.
Visibility was good as pilot Kenneth Arnold scanned the sky to find the source of the light.
He saw a group of nine shiny metallic objects flying in formation.
He estimated their speed as being around 2,600 kilometers per hour, nearly three times faster than the top speed of any kind of jet at the time.
Soon, similar reports began coming in from all over America.
This wasn't just the world's first UFO sighting.
It was the birth of a phenomenon, one that still exercises an extraordinary fascination.
Military officials issued a press release which began, quote, the many rumors regarding the flying disc became a reality yesterday when the intelligence officer Of the 509th Bomb Group of the 8th Air Force, Roswell Army Airfield, was fortunate enough to gain position, gain possession, rather, of a disc.
The headlines screamed, flying disc captured by Air Force.
Yet, just 24 hours later, the military changed their story.
They claimed the object they'd first seen was a flying disc was actually a weather balloon that had crashed on a nearby ranch.
The key witness, Major Jesse Marcel, the intelligence officer who had gone to the ranch to recover the wreckage, he described the metal as being wafer-thin but incredibly tough.
It was as light as balsa wood, but couldn't be cut and couldn't be burned.
These and similar accounts of the incident have largely been dismissed by all except the most dedicated believers.
Now, a truly astonishing new twist.
Last week, a new twist to Roswell.
Lieutenant Walter Hout was the public relations officer at the base in 1947 and was a man who issued the original and subsequent press releases after the crash on the orders of the base commander then, Colonel William Blanchard.
He, Hout, died last year, but he left a sworn affidavit to be opened only after his death.
Last week, the text was released and asserts that the weather balloon claim was a cover story and that the real object had been recovered by the military and stored in a hangar.
He described seeing not just the craft, but alien bodies.
He wasn't the first Roswell witness to talk about alien bodies.
Local undertaker Glenn Dennis had long claimed he was contacted by authorities at Roswell shortly after the crash and asked to provide a number of child-sized coffins.
When he arrived at the base, he was apparently told by a nurse who later disappeared that a UFO had indeed crashed and that small humanoid extraterrestrials had been recovered.
But Hout is only one of the original participants, the only one to claim to have seen alien bodies.
Now, listen carefully.
Hout's affidavit talks about a high-level meeting he attended with Base Commander Colonel William Blanchard and the commander of the 8th Army Air Force, General Roger Ramey.
Hout states that at this meeting, pieces of wreckage were handed around for participants to touch with nobody able to identify the kind of material.
He says the press release was issued because local officials were already aware of the crash site, but in fact, there had been a second crash site where more debris from the craft had fallen.
The plan was that an announcement acknowledging the first site, which had been discovered by a farmer, would divert attention from the second and more important location.
Howitt also spoke about a cleanup operation where for months afterwards, military personnel scoured both craft sites, searching for all remaining pieces of debris, removing them and erasing all signs that anything unusual had occurred.
This ties in with claims made by locals that debris collected as souvenirs was seized by the military.
Hout then tells how Colonel Blanchard took him to Building 84, one of the hangars at Roswell, and showed him the craft itself.
He describes a metallic egg-shaped object around 3.6 meters to 4.5 meters in length and around 1.8 meters wide.
He said he saw no windows, no wings, no tail, landing gear, or any other feature.
He also saw the alien bodies.
He saw two bodies on the floor, partially covered by some sort of blanket, I guess.
They're described in a statement as about 1.2 meters tall with disproportionately large heads.
Toward the end of the affidavit, Hout concludes, I'm convinced that what I personally observed was some kind of craft and its crew from outer space.
What's particularly interesting about Walter Hout is that in the many interviews he gave before his death, he played down his role and he made no such claims.
He'd been speaking publicly.
Had he been speaking publicly, he surely would have spoken about the craft and the bodies.
Did he fear ridicule?
Or was the affidavit a sort of deathbed confession from someone who had been part of a cover-up, but who had stayed loyal to the very end?
The U.S. government came under huge pressure on Roswell in the 90s.
In July of 94, in response to an inquiry from the GAO, General Accounting Office, the Office of the Secretary of the Air Force published a report.
Remember?
The Roswell report, Fact versus Fiction in the New Mexico Desert.
The report concluded that the Roswell incident had been attributable to something called Project Mogul, a top-secret project using high-altitude balloons to carry sensor equipment into the upper atmosphere, listening for evidence of Soviet nuclear testing.
These statements concerning a crashed weather balloon had been for a cover story, they admitted, but not to hide the truth about extraterrestrials.
A second U.S. Air Force report concluded and claimed that bodies were recovered by, were actually generated by people having seen crash test dummies that were dropped from the balloons.
Remember that?
Skeptics, of course, will dismiss the testimony left by Hout, but I don't.
Hout, during the time he was alive, never Admitted any of this, but in a sealed document only to be opened upon his death, which has now occurred, everything important that we've heard about Roswell and has come from other sources has now been confirmed by what amounts to a deathbed confession.
Not exactly that, but a document to be opened on his death in which he virtually confirms everything that everybody's sort of dug for and feels like they've confirmed.
Now, the legal system gives more weight, a very great deal of weight, to a deathbed confession.
People just don't lie when they're dying.
That's all there is to it.
And the legal system actually recognizes that fact, and I do too.
Why would he, for all his life, deny this?
However, construct a document only to be opened when he died in his latter age, written when he was older, that would admit that all of this is absolutely true.
I believe it.
And I wonder if you do.
All these years, we've all heard things about Roswell, virtually what he admits in this document.
But it's been so easy to, well, not easy to dismiss.
But I think this is as close as you're going to get to a smoking gun in the Roswell case.
And I wonder if you also believe that.
Do you believe this man would have written this to be opened only on his death?
A man who saw a extraterrestrial craft, a man who saw alien bodies.
Do you believe he would have written this?
I believe it.
And I would like your opinion.
How much weight do you get?
And by the way, our guest tonight, Tom Kerry, in the next hour, is going to be talking about this.
The news broke just as Tom Kerry was getting ready to release his book.
But tonight, early, just, well, I don't know, an hour, two hours, three hours before the program, along comes this news.com.au story dated, by the way, July 1st, that lays it all out.
And I called Tom and I said, my God, Tom, did you know about this?
He said, do you have my book?
I said, no.
He said, it is the last chapter.
In other words, it broke just as they were getting ready to release the book, and they just had enough time to get it in as the last chapter.
So he'll have a lot to say about this tonight.
But in the meantime, I really thought I would ask you, all of you, whether you believe now, whether this, I don't know, cinches it for you or not.
It does for me.
Whatever doubts I may have had are pretty much gone now.
I just don't think a man in that position in his latter years would construct such a document not to be taken advantage of while he was alive.
Now, he could have written books.
He could have appeared on television.
He could have made a fortune telling his story, but he didn't.
In fact, he denied it, didn't allow the story to be told until he was dead.
I believe him.
That means we have been visited from elsewhere.
So I want to know what you think.
Anyway, here are the numbers.
If you're west of the Rockies, 800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies, 800-825-5033.
First time callers, area code 818-501-4721.
If you're calling on the wildcard lines, and we have many, area code 818-501-4109.
And finally, outside the country, you're welcome.
Get hold of the international operator.
Tell her you want to call 800-893-0903.
That's 800-893-0903.
West of the Rockies, hello there.
You're on the air.
Hello.
unidentified
Oh, I actually got you.
Wow, that was amazing.
Yes.
So I just wanted to call you, Art, and tell you, I've listened to you for a long time.
I just don't, you know, if somebody wanted to tell a wild, what would seem like a wild story like this, they'd tell it while they were alive.
If they wanted to make something out of it, you know, they'd go on interview shows, they'd sell the story to God knows who, and they'd make money.
But that isn't what the man did.
He wrote it all down and said, this is not to be opened until I'm dead.
unidentified
Yeah, exactly.
And when he said that, it kind of reminded me of my grandfather.
He worked at the Pentagon for a long time back in the 60s.
He wrote a journal, and my mom still has it, and he told her not to touch it until 10 years after he died.
So we haven't even still got a chance to look at it, but I'm wondering, you know, there might be something like this in there, something pretty amazing.
Because, I mean, if you were to tell it when you were alive, you'd be trying to get all the fame, the glory, the money, and all that.
But at the very end, to say it at the very end, I think that makes it totally different.
You know, there's either life out there or there's not.
To me, this means there is, and they've been here.
unidentified
Right.
But what do you think, Art?
I've listened to you for a long time, and I've heard you talk to a lot of different people about a lot of different facets of this, like the quickening, everything that's going on with the environment, plus this, you know, the war.
I mean, where do you think this is all going, Art?
The environment is certainly deteriorating faster than projected, even by some of the more dismal models that are out there.
And these two things, visitations and the state of the world, may not even be connected.
But now, I believe it.
We'll be right back.
By the way, if you'd like to go up to CoastCoastAM.com, that's Coast T-OCoastAM.com.
The upper left-hand side, you'll see Arts webcam, and you'll see what I think is kind of a cute picture of Asia and Dolly.
Dolly is our little Philippine immigrant, and she just loves Asia.
She absolutely loves Asia.
If Asia's crying, Dolly will come running.
It's absolutely amazing.
In fact, all the cats have been absolutely wonderful with Asia.
Just wonderful.
It is a very cute picture.
No two ways about it.
Upper left-hand corner of the website where it says Arts Webcam.
This Roswell thing, with what I've read you tonight, I think qualifies, what does it qualify as?
The biggest story in human history?
Something along those lines?
Easily.
To me, it means it really happened.
We really have been visited.
I wonder where they were from, and I wonder what we've done with them.
We'll be right back.
This may be as close as any of us will get in our lifetimes to the truth about Roswell.
Lieutenant Walter Hout was the PR guy at the base in 1947.
He's the guy who actually issued the original and subsequent press releases after the crash on the orders of the base commander, Colonel William Blanchard.
And in this sworn affidavit, only to be opened after his death, he saw it all.
The craft, the bodies, admitted to cover up the whole thing.
And as I said, I believe him.
I believe this.
He took an oath.
And he kept it.
But it doesn't survive his death.
And so I believe it.
And I bet a lot of you do too, judging from the fast blast that I'm getting right now.
Isn't this something?
Wild card line, you're on the air.
Hello.
unidentified
How you doing, Art?
My name is Ralph, and I'm calling from Southern Illinois.
And I also wanted to tell you a wild and strange story that happened to me just a little over 20 years ago down here in Southern Illinois.
I was out with some friends camping one night, and one of the guys with us, he always kind of dabbled in and kind of joked around with the dark side, and we never really believed him much.
So we had a fire going in an old creek bed down near the Shawnee National Forest.
The guy starts encamping some stuff, or whatever you call it, you know, saying some things.
And he was holding a stick in the middle of the fire, and all of a sudden the flame started jumping up.
And we all got a little nervous at that point, you know, and at that time I was always, you know, everything I heard, it's like, well, you got to prove it to me kind of thing.
Well, he did this for quite a while, you know, and he'd say certain things and the flame would change different colors and it would jump higher and higher.
Well, one of the other guys in our group, he got a little scared and finally we stopped everything and decided, all right, we're going to go back over to our regular campsite.
Well, as we got ready to leave, we were going through the forest and we heard something, turned around and looked and I caught something out of the side of my eye and it kind of looked like kind of like a gray apparition of some sort.
And everybody else kind of stopped and nobody said anything.
Well the next day we were all talking about this and before I had even said what I had seen, two other guys said they saw the same thing.
It kind of looked like an old, possibly a Confederate soldier or something.
And that kind of got us a little nervous.
We went back up to this old creekbed and where we had the fire built.
It was on top of slabs of rock at the bottom of this old, like I said, this old creekbed.
And where he had drawn this fire out, he had made a pentagram.
Every single point in that pentagram was burned about an inch deep into the stone.
We're looking around and all of a sudden we see these weird footprints coming out of where the fire was heading kind of, I guess the direction would have been heading kind of northwest.
And we see a series of them.
We start walking along.
There's like eight feet between each one.
The bottom half of this print was cloven.
The top half of it was almost in three prongs on top of a rectangle, almost like a crown.
Well, this guy that did this, within six months, he was actually, he was from around, I guess, around the Cleveland area.
He died of a mysterious death.
I myself, the night that happened, we had went up to go get some more supplies and things, and out of nowhere, I was about five feet away from everybody else in a well-lit parking lot.
It felt like something like a linebacker just came behind me and shoved me.
And I flew probably about four or five feet.
Everybody's kind of looking at me, and a couple guys were looking right at me when it happened.
They couldn't believe what happened.
And at first, I thought one of Them did it to me.
And I had a sprained ankle.
Weird things happened to this whole group over the next.
Well, there's a million stories in the night like that one and sightings.
But rarely do we get anything as solid as Roswell.
And with tonight's news, in my mind, it locks it up.
And it may well, in a way, in a sense, it may verify a lot of these other stories, like the one you just heard, and sightings of craft and things that don't belong on Earth.
It kind of underscores a lot of those, doesn't it?
I really do wonder where they came from.
I wonder who they are, and I wonder what they want with us.
I used to work with classified material with the Air Force and the Army.
And this is something that I've never heard anybody question.
But when they were confronted with the story that something had crashed and people had seen this, the Air Force, or I guess back then it would have been the Army, they never would have divulged a top-secret operation such as Mogul to the general public, even as a diversion.
Yeah, well, kind of like a recap, you've actually done a lot of great summary on quantum mechanics and relativity.
When you have big hype on the Ginger, you had a detective on there who worked, I think, for a current affair, and he was describing how all these millionaire investors were in there, and you quickly went to how, well, how did you get in here?
And he commented on how his friend always tries this and gets whisked in a limousine, but he is able at the airport to shake president's hand.
Yeah, there have been a lot of, thank you, there have been a lot of very good programs, and they do, of course, a best out for streaming.
I suppose you could put together a show with, you know, which would encompass years and years and years of a lot of it was breaking and very interesting news.
I just wanted to tell you that I'm very sorry for those nasty things I wrote to you, and I was under the influence of JC, and I was not thinking clearly.
Yes, well, JC, let's see, I spoke with him about a week ago, and he was under the impression that very shortly you were going to be back at the compound with him.
unidentified
I have to tell you that I've been a bit worried because I have heard that he was trying to track me down.
Oh, yes.
And I think I saw a friend of his in the town I'm staying.
But, you know, I just wanted to ask you also, it's an honor speaking with you, but would you accept my apology?
It means it's an object in the air and it's not identified.
unidentified
Okay, I just wondered if that's what you're coming to the conclusion because you've talked about triangles and it seems to me that the way you talk about just UFOs, I love your show, is that you believe them to be otherworldly, but I'm not putting words in your mouth if that's what it is.
An object in the air that is not identified is a UFO.
However, for example, with respect to what we're talking about tonight, we're talking about a man who, following his death, told the story of what happened at Roswell.
Now, he saw a flying saucer.
He saw a disc.
He also saw bodies, non-human bodies.
What does that sound like to you?
unidentified
Well, I don't know about the bodies, but the disks, the U.S. Air Force has had disks.
No, even the giant triangle I saw, I can't tell you that it was from elsewhere.
In fact, I think that in every instance that I have described it, although I have said clearly, and we'll say again, that it appeared to be defying gravity, It appeared to be of large mass.
It could have been some sort of experimental lighter-than-aircraft, something.
And I think I've clearly stated on each occasion that I've discussed it that I have no real way of knowing where it came from.
But in the case of Roswell, we're talking about a disk, a flying saucer, seen on the ground, crashed.
We're talking about biological entities that were small and non-human.
And again, we're talking about the man who was the public relations officer for the base way back in 1947, who now following his death has left a document saying that he saw all of this.
To me, that has meaning.
From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I'm Art Bell.
Indeed, here I am.
Tom Kerry has been a mutual UFO network, a MUFON State Director in Southeastern Pennsylvania, a special investigator for the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies, as well as a member of the CUFOS CUFOS Board of Directors.
Tom began investigating aspects of the Roswell incident in 1991 for the Roswell investigative team of Kevin Randall and Don Schmidt, and since 98 has teamed exclusively with Don Schmidt to continue a proactive investigation.
Tom has authored or co-authored over 30 published articles about the Roswell events of 1947 and has contributed to a number of books on the subject as well.
He appeared as a guest on many radio and television shows throughout the country.
This will be his first on Coast and has contributed to a number of Roswell-related documents on screen and behind the scenes.
Most recently, Tom was a consultant and interviewee with Don Schmidt on the sci-fi channel documentary, The Roswell Crash, Startling New Evidence, 2002, and the History Channel's Conspiracy Theory, Roswell 2005, Travel Channel's Weird America, Roswell 2005, and the Sci-Fi Channel's Sci-Fi Investigates, Roswell 2006.
Up until that point, he had more or less said the same story over and over again, the same account of his involvement in the Roswell incident, namely that of the base public information officer who distributed the famous press release to the news media in Roswell.
And over the years, I knew Walter for ever since my first trip to Roswell in 1994, I think it was.
And a finer gentleman you could never hope to meet.
His official story was that he was in his office on Tuesday, July the 8th, 1947, when he received a phone call from the base commander,
the commander of the 509th Bomb Group, William Blanchard, that Blanchard wanted him to take down a statement that he was going to dictate to him announcing the capture of a flying saucer, as they were called in those days.
And so he took the statement down.
I think it began the many rumors concerning the flying saucer, etc., are true, and it went on for a bit.
So around noontime, First Lieutenant Hout went around to the four news media, two radio stations, two newspapers in Roswell with the news release, press release, and went back to his desk.
And that was the end of his involvement, according to his story.
I think he joined in 1942 or thereabouts, and he got out, I think it was 1948.
He was a bombardier in World War II, B-29s, and he and Blanchard hooked up at Roswell.
And I think Hout was also in that famous Operation Crossroads in 1946 in some capacity in which Blanchard was already the commander of the 509th Bomb Group.
I don't think Walter Howd is the kind of person you threaten.
I think he wouldn't really tell you where to go, irregardless of the rank.
But we do know this, that William Blanchard, his commanding officer, and he had a very close relationship, almost like father, son, uncle, nephew, something like that, a very good relationship.
And we had bandied it about, and we turned out to be right that he had promised Butch, Blanchard's nickname, that he would never talk about it.
And Blanchard had asked him, and he promised that he would not talk about the Roswell incident.
So he was keeping a secret for Butch all of these years.
But in the end, before he checked out, he did want to have a record of the truth about what went down at Roswell in 1947.
And the sealed statement was his vehicle to give the truth, but also not tell it during his life.
So he would keep the promise that he made the butch.
Well, when the Air Force had their now infamous, it was dummies that were Dropped and tried to, you know, the mogul and then the whole mogul business.
If that had been the real cover story, certainly at that point, he would have felt free to discuss any aspect of Roswell because the Air Force themselves were supposedly going public saying, okay, finally, here is the real, we can finally now tell you the real truth about what happened at Roswell.
I would think, Tom, that this would be so serious, what we're discussing right now, that it would almost require some sort of response from the military or from somebody.
I've got to tell you, Tom, this virtually cinches it for me.
I mean, I had a big question mark over Roswell all my life, but this really does cinch it for me.
It honestly does.
People, they just don't.
Look, I said it to the audience in the first hour, and I'll say it to you now.
If he had wanted to make something of this, he was in a position where he could have written books, made a lot of money, done any TV and radio appearance he wished to do, and really just could have done anything he wanted while he was alive with this.
So the fact that he didn't and wrote this document, the sworn affidavit, and only to be opened after he was dead, it really does cinch it for me, Tom.
Well, Art, I was convinced before the sealed statement.
For me, the sealed statement is sort of the icing on the cake because I already had come to the conclusion of what went down at Roswell because of our investigation, which is ongoing.
I was a reading member of the QFOS, the Center for UFO Studies.
I received their quarterly magazine.
And there was an investigative team in there of Kevin Randall and Don Schmidt who were publishing articles about the Roswell incident.
Now, I had read the Roswell incident book when it came out in 1980.
And that, as far as my interest in UFOs, that sort of sensed it for me as to my real focus was the crash saucer phenomenon.
And it seemed to me that Randall and Schmidt had an investigation going on, which I just found fascinating.
And one of the aspects of the investigation actually goes back to the original book, The Roswell Incident, about these archaeologists that stumbled upon the crashed saucer and some crew members lying about.
Of course, that was the old Barney Barnett story at that point, but the involvement of the archaeologists is what interested me because of my background in anthropology and archaeology.
And the fact that these archaeologists allegedly came from the University of Pennsylvania.
And myself, living near Philadelphia, I thought, well, geez, this ought to be a slam dunk for me to go down To the university and find out who they were.
He's a first-time guest on Coast, but a long-time investigator of the Roswell case.
And we have big new news on Roswell tonight.
We'll be right back.
Here I am.
All right, everybody.
It's breaking everywhere now at this hour.
We're collecting stories from thisislondon.co.uk.
So from England, I'm seeing yet another story I just found.
Daily Mail in London also just broke the story.
So at this hour, it's breaking worldwide.
What am I talking about?
I'm talking about Lieutenant Walter Hout.
And it's funny the way news stories break, isn't it?
Actually, Tom got it in the last chapter of his book.
And we'll find out the timing on that here shortly.
But this is just breaking now around the world.
It's one of those stories that once it breaks in one place, it's going to break everywhere.
And thank goodness, the timing is absolutely perfect for this night.
And my guest, Tom Kerry, the subject Roswell, breaking news.
We'll be right back.
Tom, we've got to come back to it for a moment here because it's breaking in the mainstream press very rapidly.
I've now got two stories from Great Britain, which has always just bugged the hell out of me, the fact that I've got to get important news about things that occur here in the U.S. from other nations, particularly from Great Britain and, of course, Australia.
Now, Tom, why do you think this is virtually, as we're speaking, at this hour, beginning to break so hard in the mainstream press?
When our book came out, I tried to interest our local media here in Philadelphia about not only the 60th anniversary that's approaching, but also our book and the fact that there was a local angle, meaning me, that was involved in the case.
And so far they've shown no interest.
But apparently across the world, in Australia and Great Britain, they have a different attitude.
Now, I think, I'm guessing this is just speculation as to why it's breaking now, is that last week, Bill Burns from UFO magazine, the publisher of UFO magazine, held a press conference in New York City announcing the sealed statement of Walter Hout.
And of course, he gave the source of the statement as our book.
But the fact that he held it in New York City, perhaps there were other newsmen there from Wherever, and the internet being what it is, you know how word gets around much faster these days than when the first Roswell book came out.
Well, Don and I have been getting a lot of emails, and all of them are outstanding.
I mean, the feedback has been outstanding.
But what's interesting is that while the media seems to have latched on to the sealed statement, the emails that we're getting are more just about the wealth of information, the wealth of new information in the book.
The sealed statement we put in there to be the crown jewel of the book and placing it last for best effect.
Well, you understand, don't you, why it's such a big deal.
Oh, absolutely.
A man who could have made a lot of money, who could have been famous, could have virtually done anything he wanted to do with that information when he was alive, to have written it as an affidavit, as an affidavit, and one only to be opened on his death.
It's a big story.
I'm glad the press now is recognizing it as such.
And I suppose eventually we're going to see something in the American media virtually any minute.
Even though this certainly qualifies as breaking news, let's come back to, I guess what got you or what convinced you, and that's a strong word, convinced, convinced you about Roswell in the first place?
Well, I liked the first book, the 1980, the Roswell incident, but it was the Randall Schmidt book of 1991, UFO Crash at Roswell, that really, for me, got me thinking, wow, this is, because they had so much new information in it.
I thought, wow, here's a lot of work done, and boy, did they uncover a lot of new information about the case, testimony and what have you.
And I said, boy, there's really something to this.
Now, Don and I teamed up in 1998.
Now, this is a year after the hoopla from the 1997, 50th anniversary, where the media really took to the case.
And most of the former investigators, I feel, packed it in at that point, 1997.
Before the show, I looked through my library here at the Roswell books that I had.
Most of them were written in 1997, 10 years ago.
So Don and I wanted to continue a proactive, I emphasized the word proactive, investigation of the case, meaning that we're not going to sit around and wait for leads to plop in our laps.
We're going to go out there and shake the tree and see what we can find.
We didn't know what we would find, but there were still a number of witnesses that hadn't been talked to, many of them, and enough out there that it made it worthwhile for us to continue.
And the continuing wealth of information from witness testimony, and believe me, they're not talking about a weather balloon or a high-altitude balloon that they are not, is what sort of put the nail in the coffin for me of any other explanation other than a UFO crashed.
And along the way, three occupants were blown out and landed two and a half miles from the original debris field site.
So we're talking about seven occupants, one of which was alive, at least for a period of time, a sheep pasture maybe a mile long and a couple hundred feet wide, just covered with wreckage in small pieces, and an egg-shaped pod or an escape capsule of some sort that continued on for another few miles and came to rest about 40 miles north of town.
Three and a half to four feet tall, maybe 40 pounds.
Very frail, but the overriding feature is a large head.
Everyone describes a large hairless head, shaped like an inverted pear or an inverted egg, slightly slanted eyes, not like these big black ovals that you see in the abduction.
That one, we have, how long it lasted or how long it lived is a matter of conjecture.
We have someone who said that there's been a story around for years that it was at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base until 1952, at which time it expired.
If the World War II pilot, Mary Magruder, is to believe he saw it late July at Wright-Pat.
Others seem to feel that it expired soon after it was brought to the base hospital.
In fact, one of the witnesses at the site, this is before it was removed to the hospital, his family asked him, well, did it talk to you?
Did it speak to you?
And he Said, yes, but in my head.
You know, he didn't say anything about mental telepathy or anything like that.
He just said that the being talked to him in his head and that it told him not to worry, that it was all right, that there was nothing that he could do, that he was accepting his fate.
In a moment, we'll come back, and I'm going to read it.
And you can tell me if it's word for word correct or not.
We'll be right back.
I want to thank Doug, who is an amateur radio operator, for sending me the following.
Here it comes, folks.
2002 sealed affidavit of Walter G. Hout.
Date, December 26, 2002.
Witness, Chris, and then it's X'd out.
Notary, Beverly, and I don't want to read the last name.
I'll hold that back.
Here it comes.
One, my name is Walter G. Hout.
Two, I was born on June 2nd, 1922.
Three, my address is 1405, 7th Street, Roswell, New Mexico, 88203.
4.
I am retired.
5.
In July 1947, I was stationed at the Roswell Army Air Base in Roswell, New Mexico, serving as the base public information officer.
I had spent the 4th of July weekend, Saturday the 5th and Sunday the 6th at my private residence about 10 miles north of the base, which was located south of town.
6.
I was aware that someone had reported the remains of a downed vehicle by mid-morning after my return to duty at the base Monday, July 7th.
I was aware that Major Jesse A. Marcel, head of intelligence, was sent by the base commander, Colonel William Blanchard, to investigate.
7.
By late in the afternoon that same day, I would learn that additional civilian reports came in regarding a second site just north of Roswell.
I would spend the better part of the day attending to my regular duties, hearing little, if anything, more.
On Tuesday morning, July 8th, I would attend the regularly scheduled staff meeting at 7.30 a.m.
Besides Blanchard, Marcel, CIC, Counterintelligence Corps, Captain Sheridan Cavett, Colonel James, I believe it's I. Hopkins, the operations officer, Lieutenant Ulysses S. Nero, the supply officer,
and from Carswell Air Force AAF in Fort Worth, Texas, Blanchard's boss, Brigadier General Roger Ramey, and his chief of staff, Colonel Thomas Du Bois, J. Du Bois, were in attendance.
The main topic of discussion was reported by Marcel and Cavett regarding an extensive debris field in Lincoln County, approximately 75 miles northwest of Roswell.
A preliminary briefing was provided by Blanchard about the second site, approximately 40 miles north of town.
Samples of wreckage were passed around the table.
It was unlike any material I have ever seen in my life.
Pieces which resembled metal foil, paper thin, yet extremely strong, and pieces with unusual markings along their length were handed from man to man, each voicing their opinion.
No one was able to identify the crashed debris.
9.
One of the main concerns discussed at the meeting was whether we should go public or not with the discovery.
General Ramey proposed a plan, which I believe originated from his bosses at the Pentagon.
Attention needed to be diverted from the more important site north of town by acknowledging the other location.
Too many civilians were already involved, and the press already was informed.
I was not immediately informed how this would be accomplished.
10.
At approximately 9.30 a.m., Colonel Blanchard phoned my office and dictated the press release of having in our possession a flying disc coming from a ranch northwest of Roswell and Marcel flying the material to higher headquarters.
I was to deliver the news release to radio stations KGFL and KSWS and newspapers The Daily Record and the Morning Dispatch.
11.
By the time the news release hit the wire services, my office was inundated with phone calls from around the world.
Messages stacked up on my desk.
And rather than deal with the media concern, Colonel Blanchard suggested I go home and hide out.
That's in quotes.
12.
Before leaving the base, Colonel Blanchard took me personally to Building 84, aka Hangar P, as in Paul 3, a B-29 hangar located on the east side of the tarmac.
Upon first approaching the building, I observed that I was under heavy guard both outside and inside.
Once inside, I was permitted from a safe distance to observe the object just recovered from north of town.
It was approximately 12 to 15 feet in length, not quite as wide, about 6 feet high, and more of an egg shape.
Lighting was poor, but its surface did appear metallic.
No windows, portals, wings, tail section, or landing gear were visible.
13.
Also, from a distance, I was able to see a couple of bodies under a canvas tarpaulin.
Only the heads extended beyond the covering, and I was not able to make out any features.
The heads did appear larger than normal, and the contour of the canvas suggested the size of a 10-year-old child.
At a later date in Blanchard's office, he would extend his arm about four feet above the floor to indicate the height.
14.
I was informed of a temporary morgue set up to accommodate the recovered bodies.
15.
I was informed that the wreckage was not hot, in parentheses, radioactive.
16.
Upon his return from Fort Worth, Major Marcel described to me taking pieces of the wreckage to General Ramey's office and after returning from a map room, finding the remains of a weather balloon and radar kite substituted while he was out of the room.
Marcel was very upset over this situation.
We would not discuss it again.
17.
I would be allowed to make at least one visit to one of the recovery sites during the military cleanup.
I would return to the base with some of the wreckage which I would display in my office.
18.
I was aware two separate teams would return to each site months later for periodic searches for any remaining evidence.
19.
I am convinced that what I personally observed was some type of craft and its crew from outer space.
20.
I have not been paid nor given anything of value to make this statement, and it is the truth to the best of my recollection.
Signed, Walter G. Hout, December 26, 2002.
Signature witnessed by Chris, and then it's X'd out.
Certainly this, I don't know about other cases, but certainly the Roswell case, to me, is a case that strongly suggests, I can only use those words, strongly suggest as an investigator, a case of alien visitation.
It's the simplest explanation to use Occam's razor that explains the data.
Anything else, you have to go far afield to make it fit.
The wealth of information that we have, the only thing that fits is an extraterrestrial craft and crew.
Tom, do you know offhand, you know, and I'm reaching out on the edge now, but during the telepathic communication, you indicated that the creature said it accepted its fate, knew it wasn't going to go home.
Was there anything else about the beings themselves, the reason, the motivation for the visit, anything at all that was allegedly communicated by this being?
If anything like that would have transpired, I would suspect that it was when it was in uh not well, captivity, uh I don't like to use that word, but when it was probably the right word when it was uh in the care of our military at either at the Wright-Patterson or we, you know, perhaps it was loaned elsewhere, we don't know.
But as far as we're concerned, that gets into the area of speculation because we're asked that question occasionally, you know, where were they from?
We don't believe there's any logical reason today to keep it secret because of the discoveries of other planets in the universe, a small number of which seem to resemble Earth.
He was the right-hand man of the base commander who was when he passed away, when the base, when Blanchard passed away at age 50, he was second in command of the entire Air Force.
He was vice chief of staff, four stars.
He was scheduled to become the next chief of staff of the Air Force.
Not something you would give to someone who would make a boo-boo back in 1947 and get everybody excited over a weather balloon.
You describe these beings three and a half, four feet tall, 40 pounds, perhaps frail, very frail, large heads, slightly slanted eyes, tear-shaped eyes, arms that extended down below their knees.
I think it's time that our government and our military gave it up.
Especially the, you know, I think people are accepting.
I mean, it's not the days of, remember the old Science fiction movies with the Earth versus the Flying Saucers, that sort of stuff in those days anymore.
Although, one has to wonder if there is something beyond what you know and I know now, tonight, that they may have found out that caused them to keep this secret.
In other words, more than just building on a lie or holding on to a lie.
Maybe there's something that they found out, some technology that was back-engineered.
The only other thing that makes quasi-sense is that in the early 60s, the Brookings Institution conducted a study of the potential effects of contact with an extraterrestrial civilization, and all the potential effects were bad.
Destruction of our financial institutions, collapse of our financial institutions, our religious institutions, and our social institutions.
Tom Kerry is my guest, and this is Without a Doubt, a Breaking News Night from the High Desert and the Great American Southwest.
I'm Mark Bell.
Isn't this fascinating?
I mean, this news has been out.
It really has.
It's in Tom Kerry's book.
Apparently, that was the first place, and it's really been sitting there since about December or so, but it didn't break.
I mean, it may have been recited by one person or another and certainly appeared in the book.
And now all of a sudden, quick.
It's fascinating the way our press works.
It really is.
What a story.
Tom Kerry is my guest.
He'll be right back.
I don't know what's true.
Maybe it's true that information gets out and somehow it's not recognized for the level of importance that it carries for some time.
I'm not sure.
Let me ask you this.
Scott sent me a message here from Texas, Humble, Texas.
It says, Art, for the sake of good record, do any medical records exist that show without any doubt that Colonel Hout was not suffering from some sort of senility or any other medical defect caused by old age on the date of 12, 22, 2002 when that affidavit was signed?
You know, basically, what we have are phone books, the internet phone book, and we have not been able to find a Lee Reeves that used to live in Roswell.
That's our holy grail where you can just wat it up in your hand and it feels like you have nothing in your hand and you turn it over and you drop it on a flat surface and it just flattens right out in about a second to the original shape.
We've spoken to a number of witnesses who have seen and held that sort of material.
And the reason we call it the holy grail of Roswell is because you don't, if you have a piece of that, you go on camera and you don't have to send it away to be analyzed for isotopic constituents.
You can just visually see that it's something truly extraordinary, that you don't have to send it out.
And certainly they had nothing like that in 1947.
I don't think they have anything like that today, at least from the descriptions that we've heard.
There's about 10% left, and maybe half of those are infirm to the point that we can't interview them.
So we're talking about a shrinking witness pool that certainly by the next 10th anniversary, the 70th anniversary, there won't be anyone left to interview.
So we're going to follow this until either the witnesses pass away, we pass away, we find the piece of memory metal, or that day of disclosure comes to a reality, meaning the government comes clean.
His story was consistent over the years, but you had to believe he had to know more than just the original press release, just from where he was placed.
And if you read his body language, his language was, I am keeping a secret, and I'm not going to tell you what it is.
And rather than lie about it, he would just, when you pressed him, he would just say, oh, that was a long time ago.
A few years after this happened, he was attending a function in Roswell, and he spoke to, I believe it was Art McQuiddy, who was the publisher of the, I get confused if he was the publisher of the Roswell Morning Dispatch or he was one of the owners of KSWS, the radio station.
But McQuiddy asked them, what was that stuff back in 47?
And all Blanchard said was it was the strangest thing he'd ever seen.
And he made some statements at home whenever his family pressed him.
Dad, what was that?
What was that?
His daughter, Dale, mentioned in an article that was published in 1996 that whenever they asked him about Roswell, he would stare off into space and say, the Russians have some amazing things.
Certainly Edwin Easley, the provost marshal, who, when Randall interviewed him, I think it was 1989, he just kept repeating, I can't tell you anything.
I'm still sworn to Secrecy.
Now, you know, what kind of balloon, you know, it just doesn't hold up that a rubber balloon is something that will cause you to be sworn to secrecy.
But later on, we found out that when he was on his deathbed, his granddaughter came in with a copy of Randall and Schmidt's, I don't know if it was their first book or their second book, but it was about Roswell.
And she said, Granddad, what about this?
Held up the book in front of him, and he said, oh, the creatures.
Oh, the creatures.
And we know from other witnesses that he was out at the crash site.
They saw him out there.
In fact, his daughter, who's a lawyer today, was part of the archaeological team, the volunteers digging in 2002 for the sci-fi documentary, the Roswell Crash, Startling New Evidence.
She was out there.
She wanted to see where her father had been and if he had done a good job of cleaning up the site.
Well, in 2002, we had the financial backing of the sci-fi channel, and we had a team of archaeologists, degreed archaeologists from the University of New Mexico leading us.
And one of the, we did find some things.
And before I tell you, I just want to say that we dug in an area that, in my opinion, was not prime for finding what we were looking for.
By that I mean a piece of metal, you know, some of that memory metal or some of the rigid metal.
Major Patrick Saunders was the 509th, the Roswell Base Adjutant to Colonel Blanchard.
And he died in 1995, but before he died, he bought up a bunch of copies of Randall and Schmidt's second book, The Truth About the UFO Crash at Roswell.
And in 19, so right before he died, he bought up a bunch of copies of the second Randall and Schmidt book.
The first page inside the book was a page entitled Damage Control.
And it told about what the authors believed happened to the records.
They were vacuumed, serial numbers were changed so that people looking in the future couldn't really track down anybody and records were destroyed.
Above this heading damage control, which was on the first page inside, Patrick Saunders wrote in hand wrote, here's the truth, and I still haven't told anybody anything.
And we thought at the time, well, he just must be talking about the book in general.
Well, after the key witness in the book imploded, that would be Frank Kaufman, one of the main witnesses in this book.
We caught him in a number of fabrications.
We started thinking, well, I did right away.
I thought, well, geez, what could he have been talking about?
So I looked at that page again, and the closeness of his handwritten note to the damage control paragraph, I had an epiphany at that point that this is what he was talking about.
Not the book in general, but what followed in that paragraph?
Well, which was that he basically had been in charge of covering the trail, covering the paper trail.
But a few months ago, I received an email from Kevin Randall, one of the co-authors of the book, and he had come to, independently, come to the same epiphany.
And so we compared notes, and we both agreed that that's what Patrick Saunders was talking about, is that he was the one who initiated the vacuuming of the files, the covering the paper trail.
And if you remember, Art, the Government Accounting Office in 1993 and 1994, when they were looking for a paper trail, they found out that it was inexplicably there was none.
That's right.
The papers out of Roswell were inexplicably destroyed without apparent authority.
Yes, we, you know, we talk to Bob as often as we can.
I understand he's in a assisted care facility now.
unidentified
That's correct.
Yes, he's had some health problems, and he's not going to make it to Rossville this year, and he's sad about that, and we're all hoping he gets better.
I'll tell you what, why don't we ask, since we've got a son on the line, why don't we ask what your dad told you?
unidentified
Well, he didn't talk about it.
He was like all those other fellows.
Nobody talked until 1989.
And all of a sudden, it broke.
I was watching television one night and saw my dad on TV.
And I went, my God.
And I called him and I said, what in the world is this?
And he laid it out to me and told me he had stood with Colonel Blanchard and watched them load the wreckage and told me what it looked like and said it was nothing none of them had ever seen before.
And my dad was a pilot.
He just happened to be the operations officer that night.
They all traded jobs so everybody would know each other's job, you know.
Do you remember his exact words when he described what he saw?
unidentified
He just told me he saw pieces of, it looked like metal beams and it had strange writing on it and none of them knew what it was and it wasn't hieroglyphics and it wasn't anything that any of them had ever seen before.
And Glenn Dennis, the man that sent the caskets to the funeral home, I've known him all my life.
I was born in Roswell in 1949 and my family, we knew Glenn Dennis.
He took care of the funerals from my grandparents and a lot of my relatives and Walter Haut lived around the corner from my aunt and uncle.
And I've known those men all my life and they were just stand-up guys and they didn't all get together in a coffee shop one afternoon to say, hey, let's make a story.
So when you heard this affidavit of Walter Hout, it rang true to you?
unidentified
Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely.
He was a stand-up guy.
I mean, none of those men, like I said, none of those men were even talking.
They never talked about this.
Nobody ever said a word about this until, I guess, Stanton Freeman and those fellas, Mr. Round and Mr. Smith, went out, and they all started looking into it.
And the dam broke, and then everybody else started coming out with their stories.
To Carol in Claremont, California, you're on with Tom.
unidentified
Well, I'll try my best, sir, but I want to say my jaw is on my chest after what I've been hearing.
I am so dramatically shocked to be kind of even a fringe player on this evening, I can hardly believe my fortune.
And I want to thank you all.
I have in my possession a clip from the 1890s from a newspaper in Michigan where one of my father's grandfather's employees saw a U.S. over a railroad.
So I've sort of been a lifelong interest person here.
I want to also give you quick information.
On my internet, I was able to find out Art McQuiddy.
You referenced him earlier, and you didn't know if he was the KSWS or KSW.
But I'm very curious, and I'm puzzled about the heavy-handed tactics that apparently, according to a lot of documentaries I've seen, tactics used verbally, threats, something as melodramatic as actually taking a truncheon.
Is that the right word?
Yes.
And pounding it in a palm and saying, you don't remember any of this.
Well, in our book, we bring out some of the heavy, as you call them, heavy-handed tactics that our Air Force used to silence witnesses.
One thing that wasn't previously known was that they turned the homes of the ranchers up in Corona upside down and inside out looking for pieces of debris that they thought they had taken from the site.
They just ripped up floorboards.
They cut into meal sacks that they used to feed the cattle.
They just turned that place upside down.
As far as threatening witnesses, they specialized in threatening the witnesses, civilian witnesses that had seen the bodies.
And what they would do is they would, if it was, you know, a child and parents, they would take the child into one room and say, we're going to kill your parents.
And they would take the parents into another room saying, we're going to kill your child.
Just awful stuff.
And that shows you how serious this was, that they would threaten civilians with death to keep quiet.
Now, what they did was that they employed the sheriff of Roswell, George Wilcox, to deliver the message to civilians.
Not all civilians, but most of the civilians.
The surviving Wilcox family said that the Roswell incident destroyed him, that he never ran for sheriff again.
And we suspect that they forced him to deliver these messages to threaten people with their lives that really...
The Anaya brothers and Pete Anaya's wife recall vividly when Wilcox came around.
The Anaya brothers had friends of Lieutenant Governor Joseph Little Joe Montoya at the time, and Montoya had seen the bodies in the hangar.
And it really just shook him up.
And he had the Anayas pick him up over at the base, and he told them the whole story.
And a few days later, Sheriff Wilcox came calling.
And shortly after that, they brought in Senator Dennis Chavez to speak to the Anaya brothers, never to speak about this, or else, as Pete tells it, he said, the FBI will get you.
So they used Senator Chavez, they used Sheriff Wilcox, they had the majority owner of the radio station KGFL escort Brazil around to the media when they had him change the story.
So with Walt Whitmore, they threatened him with loss of his FCC license.
So that's how they got to the civilians, because, as you know, the military has no direct authority over civilians unless it's a time of martial law.
I thought you guys would be interested, and this might be reopened now.
Do you remember that special they did on either the Discovery Channel or TLC where they had General Ramey holding those papers in his hands right In front of the weather balloon lie, but that guy, I can't recall his name with the computer, you know, enhanced that and blew it up, and we could actually read what was on the screen.
That's right, yes, that's what was really going on.
And it's a great story because who would have thought that the architect of the Roswell cover-up, General Ramey, would provide one of the keys to unlocking the case because we now have computer programs that can enhance that memo that he was holding.
The reason we wrote the book, Art, was to put out most of the, not most, but many new witnesses to the case.
Everybody knows the original witnesses, but we've been uncovering, prying loose, whatever you want to term it, new witnesses since we teamed up in 1998.
And we wanted to give them a voice.
We wanted to tell their story in their own words.
It's not our interpretation of what they said.
So that was the purpose in writing the book, to get their stories out.
Art, I just got to tell you, I'm a longtime listener for about 10 years, and I really appreciate you and George and Ian.
And I wanted to tell you that whenever you received your Lifelong Achievement Award, I downloaded the picture of you three fellas and put you up on my little personal shrine of my greatest, best teachers in the world.
And whenever you started talking about the preacher, I wanted to ask you if you've been able to get contact with his son who is living in Richardson, Texas.
And I wanted to ask you if this is the same preacher because I have a son.
I just recently, past couple of years, connected with a high school friend of mine who we were very close and we're still close today.
And he told me he had a neighbor who was the son of a preacher who was asked to come out and pray over the bodies at Roswell.
And he told me that his father, he's a minister now himself, and he's in his 60s, and his father has since passed away.
And really, that's all I know, except that they had told a story about how another rancher or farmer was showing the preacher, I'm not sure about the son being there, but this is a story that he told my dear friend: was that his rancher neighbor had a piece of the material and showed it to him and was willing to give him a piece, except he said he couldn't cut it.
But they demonstrated how they could farm it into a cone, put fire underneath it and water in the cone.
And of course, the water was never affected.
It didn't warm up, heat up, or anything.
Wow.
And of course, they just couldn't cut any off at all.
James in Lincoln, Nebraska, you're on with Tom Kerry.
unidentified
Hey, I appreciate that.
It's been a wonderful story so far.
My questions for you are about the broader implications of what was happening in 1947 and things like Operation Paperclip with the Nazi scientists coming over, Admiral Byrd's expedition to the South Pole where they had the UFO bases, or the U-boat bases, secret bases.
Was there a secret war going on at this time?
And was Roswell kind of at a center of that?
Based on, well, this was where the bomber wing that dropped the atomic bombs in the end of World War II.
I'm kind of wondering, with this piece of the puzzle coming in, it's starting to make a lot of those other questions a lot more important.
Well, I'm not sure about a secret war, but certainly New Mexico was a hub of military activity in 1947.
We had the White Sands proving grounds west of Roswell, where the captured German V-2 rockets were being tested.
We had the development of the atomic bomb in New Mexico with the first detonation in 1945 at Trinity site.
Had Los Alamos there, a number of air bases, and the only atomic bomb strike force in the world was stationed at Roswell.
So we don't like to speculate, but if I'm flying through the universe and would want to pick a place to visit on Earth in 1947, it might be New Mexico.
And certainly Operation Paperclip, the captured German scientists, were housed at Fort Bliss in El Paso, Texas at the time, headed up by Werner von Braun.
And we did get a lead from a woman in Georgia a few years ago.
She had a college roommate in 1964 whose father was one of the paper-clipped Germans.
And she told the story that her father told her that he saw the Roswell aliens.
And this is in 1964 or earlier from the Roswell crash.
Unfortunately, we've never been able to find the roommate of our source.
You know, it's always made sense to me, Tom, that if there are others out there, and I am convinced there are, our detonation of a nuclear weapon above ground would, beyond anything else, it'd be a beacon, all right, saying this civilization has just reached a certain level.
I don't know how they'd regard that level, but it would be like a beacon in the night.
And who knows, maybe it brought that visit.
David in Sherman Oaks, California, you're on the air with Tom Kerry.
I was listening to your story this morning, and I've followed the Roswell Incident for many years, and it seems like the water's really muddy on this case here.
You get so many different conflicting reports about what they look like, what the craft is, how many craft there were.
I mean, I've got everything from an E.T. looking like E.T. looking for the one in the movie, E.T., Steven Spilberg, looking like that, all the way from children-like.
So it's really hard to figure out what's going on.
But I worked on a stealth fighter F-117A project, if you're familiar with that at all.
Well, it had irregular shape in order to deflect radar as well as the composite materials.
Anyway, go ahead, Collar.
unidentified
Yeah, okay.
Well, I worked on that project and it was called Have Blue when we first started it.
As you know, the word blue is connected to UFO investigation and reverse engineering projects.
So when we were first told that this thing that we're developing is similar to something that was reversed engineered, okay?
Now, this aircraft was made of all composite materials.
And outer skin portion, before we put the special paint on it, was made out of a material precisely, exactly what you described is a foil.
It's a plastic foil.
You wat it up in your hand.
As soon as you open it up your hand, it turns completely flat.
And guess what?
The military spec, the MLS spec, is this.
Won't burn, tear, or fuse, which means you can't tear it, you can't burn it, or anything.
It's incredibly strong and durable.
And exactly, when I hear this Roswell and says that someone holding something in their hand, they could bend it up and curl it up, and it's precisely like the material we used on F-117A.
And looking at that, it's just bizarre how much of a coincidence that is.
And then number two here, I've talked to people, you know, being around the project and stuff, and asked them about UFO stuff because they were talking about UFO reconnaissance and using a stealth fighter actually to get close to UFOs to get pictures of it since, you know, it's a radar absorbent and reflective.
And they said that we actually have some hybrid beams and some facilities that help with technology.
And I found it completely bizarre when I first heard that.
But here, you want the smoking gun on UFOs.
I really, I know, Bill, he's so passionate about this UFO thing that I'll really give it to you right now.
The UFO research, basically most UFOs globally, admit, have an orange orb, or to them.
They're like a glowing orange light.
They look like a glowing orb, an orb, basically.
When most people see these devices, most of them will land in wooded areas.
Now, the government came to this conclusion and said, okay, the first people who's going to be on scene at any UFO, when UFO lands, a lot of the time they're having a problem.
They just don't land and become visible to people.
There's something wrong.
The UFO lands and people see it, there's something wrong with the craft.
So the government said, okay, who's going to be the first on scene?
Is it going to be the police officers?
No.
It's going to be the fire department.
Why?
Because when a UFO lands and it's flickering orange, it looks like a fire.
People, when they see a flickering orange something in the bushes, they go, oh my God, there's a fire.
They call the fire department.
So the fire department is on the scene first.
So guess what?
Here's your smoky gut.
Every single fire department in the United States of America has an instruction manual.
And guess what's in that manual on one of the pages?
How to deal with crashed UFOs extraterrestrial craft is inside of every fire department in the United States.
You can get a photocopy of that.
Go to any fire department.
They have it in there.
What to deal with an extraterrestrial craft.
Now, if they don't exist, what's that doing in every fire department in the United States?
A comment, a brief comment, and a question, please.
I don't know if any, either of you had watched during the 50th anniversary of Roswell on Good Morning America.
Joan London was interviewing the general who had the press conference for the case closed book.
He was a many decorate.
Richard Weaver or decorations on his lapel, a lot of fruit salad.
And she was interviewing him.
And he was telling her about how the dummies were found on Roswell and that the locals mistook the dummies for being aliens.
And, you know, Joan London even looked at him and said, but excuse me, General, the dummies were part of the alleged Project Mogul, which took place in 1954.
And Roswell was in 1947.
And with a straight face, this general looked at her and he said, well, you know those old people, they get 1947 and 1954 confused.
He said this on national television and I taped it at the time.
A lot of the media was like belittling the people that were celebrating the 50th anniversary.
Now, my question is, I don't know if you've ever interviewed one of the daughters of one of the firemen that was a guest at the time in the media said that they were rough housed by the MP that were on the board.
The notion that you can mix up decades, something that took place in the 1940s with something that took place in the mid-1950s, it Just is laughable on its face because what people do is they remember things by what grade in school they were, what songs were popular, where they lived, and that's how they do it.
At least that's how I do it.
And I may mix up a year or part of a year, but not a decade.
I have a question for Tom, but I want to first say I'm a longtime listener since Richard C. Hoagland told you about what was going on with weather experimentation in Alaska.
I'm a 30-year veteran of the United States Air Force and here in America.
And I want to ask your guest, Tom, why he thinks that it's taken so long for this to come out that it was a reality, what was first told to the American public in 1947.
My father was working for the Philadelphia Naval Yard when the Philadelphia experiment took place.