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June 30, 2007 - Art Bell

02:37:02

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Roswell Crash - Tom Carey

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01:05:40

tom carey

01:00:56

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art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the great American Southwest.
		I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the world's time zones, prolific as they are in each and every one, covered like a blanket by this program, the largest of its kind in the world, Coast to Coast AM.
		I'm Art Bell.
		It's my honor and privilege to be escorting you through the weekend.
		And in a moment, a couple of moments, be honest, we're going to talk about Roswell.
		As you know, it's the 60th anniversary of Roswell.
		My guest tonight is going to be talking about Roswell.
		And here in the first hour, we're going to be talking about Roswell for a really good reason.
		Breaking news.
		First, though, let us look at what's going on in the world.
		Never all that pleasant.
		A Jeep Cherokee, I'm sure you've seen this, if you watch the news, how could you miss it?
		Trailing a cascade of flames, rammed into Glasgow's airport terminal on Saturdays, shattering glass doors just yards from passengers at the check-in counters.
		Police said they believe the attack was linked to two car bombings, two car bombs rather, found in London the previous day.
		Britain raised its terror alert to critical.
		That would be the highest possible level.
		And the Bush administration announced plans to increase security at airports and on mass transit now.
		There is a lot of speculation that this may be Al-Qaeda, that they are linked and that it has all the signatures of Al-Qaeda and all the rest of it.
		Well, if that's true, not to belittle the tragedy of the attack, but it seems like kind of a step down for Al-Qaeda.
		I mean, this is one vehicle that rammed into the airport, and I think a guy poured some gasoline on himself and set himself on fire.
		Horrible, of course, but somehow or another, in scale, not a whole lot.
		The car bomb scare in London and the attack Saturday at the Glasgow airport underscore the need for secure borders for the U.S., according to one of our Republican presidential hopefuls, Rudy Giuliani.
		Quoting here, this is the United Kingdom, he said.
		They have security that is every bit equal to ours.
		They have intelligence services that even have had more experience with terrorism than ours.
		He said, you know, they have to be subjected to this.
		We're in an era in which we need to know everyone who's in the United States.
		Makes sense.
		Hong Kong's red flag was raised.
		Now, I don't know who wrote this, but it says, Hong Kong's red flag was raised into a cloudy blue sky Sunday.
		A cloudy blue sky as a former British colony marked the 10th anniversary of its handover to China and bid farewell to a rocky decade of financial woes, disease outbreaks, and of course, economic recovery.
		The next 10 years could be just every bit as challenging for the bustling city on China's southern coast.
		Hong Kong will likely grapple with democratic reform and face growing competition from other Asian cities, threatening its position as a global business capital.
		The harder President, this is an analysis which concludes only the Iraqis can win the war.
		The harder President Bush has pushed to win in Iraq, the closer he has come to losing.
		The question is no longer whether the U.S. military can fully stabilize Iraq.
		It cannot.
		Now, they don't say in the story who did the analysis.
		Returning residents who had evacuated their homes this week are keeping a very close watch tonight on the Brazos River, which officials expected to swell yet again on Sunday after opening another floodgate at a nearby lake.
		The river expected to crest at about 26 feet, a foot above flood stage.
		That's a foot of water.
		That's a lot.
		Brazos River Authority officials opened a fourth floodgate at the Possum Kingdom Lake in North Texas on Saturday afternoon.
		All right, in a moment, it's a very serious flooding, very serious in Texas.
		In a moment, we're going to look at some breaking news about Roswell.
		What I'm about to read you comes from news.com.au, meaning from Australia, news.com in Australia.
		And this is a hell of a story.
		Some of you may already have heard this.
		The news has been kind of around a little.
		Exactly 60 years ago, a light aircraft was flying over the Cascade Mountains in Washington state at a height of around 3,000 meters.
		Suddenly, a brilliant flash of light illuminated the aircraft.
		Visibility was good as pilot Kenneth Arnold scanned the sky to find the source of the light.
		He saw a group of nine shiny metallic objects flying in formation.
		He estimated their speed as being around 2,600 kilometers per hour, nearly three times faster than the top speed of any kind of jet at the time.
		Soon, similar reports began coming in from all over America.
		This wasn't just the world's first UFO sighting.
		It was the birth of a phenomenon, one that still exercises an extraordinary fascination.
		Military officials issued a press release which began, quote, the many rumors regarding the flying disc became a reality yesterday when the intelligence officer Of the 509th Bomb Group of the 8th Air Force, Roswell Army Airfield, was fortunate enough to gain position, gain possession, rather, of a disc.
		The headlines screamed, flying disc captured by Air Force.
		Yet, just 24 hours later, the military changed their story.
		They claimed the object they'd first seen was a flying disc was actually a weather balloon that had crashed on a nearby ranch.
		The key witness, Major Jesse Marcel, the intelligence officer who had gone to the ranch to recover the wreckage, he described the metal as being wafer-thin but incredibly tough.
		It was as light as balsa wood, but couldn't be cut and couldn't be burned.
		These and similar accounts of the incident have largely been dismissed by all except the most dedicated believers.
	Now, a truly astonishing new twist.
	Last week, a new twist to Roswell.
	Lieutenant Walter Hout was the public relations officer at the base in 1947 and was a man who issued the original and subsequent press releases after the crash on the orders of the base commander then, Colonel William Blanchard.
	He, Hout, died last year, but he left a sworn affidavit to be opened only after his death.
	Last week, the text was released and asserts that the weather balloon claim was a cover story and that the real object had been recovered by the military and stored in a hangar.
	He described seeing not just the craft, but alien bodies.
	He wasn't the first Roswell witness to talk about alien bodies.
	Local undertaker Glenn Dennis had long claimed he was contacted by authorities at Roswell shortly after the crash and asked to provide a number of child-sized coffins.
	When he arrived at the base, he was apparently told by a nurse who later disappeared that a UFO had indeed crashed and that small humanoid extraterrestrials had been recovered.
	But Hout is only one of the original participants, the only one to claim to have seen alien bodies.
	Now, listen carefully.
	Hout's affidavit talks about a high-level meeting he attended with Base Commander Colonel William Blanchard and the commander of the 8th Army Air Force, General Roger Ramey.
	Hout states that at this meeting, pieces of wreckage were handed around for participants to touch with nobody able to identify the kind of material.
	He says the press release was issued because local officials were already aware of the crash site, but in fact, there had been a second crash site where more debris from the craft had fallen.
	The plan was that an announcement acknowledging the first site, which had been discovered by a farmer, would divert attention from the second and more important location.
	Howitt also spoke about a cleanup operation where for months afterwards, military personnel scoured both craft sites, searching for all remaining pieces of debris, removing them and erasing all signs that anything unusual had occurred.
	This ties in with claims made by locals that debris collected as souvenirs was seized by the military.
	Hout then tells how Colonel Blanchard took him to Building 84, one of the hangars at Roswell, and showed him the craft itself.
	He describes a metallic egg-shaped object around 3.6 meters to 4.5 meters in length and around 1.8 meters wide.
	He said he saw no windows, no wings, no tail, landing gear, or any other feature.
	He also saw the alien bodies.
	He saw two bodies on the floor, partially covered by some sort of blanket, I guess.
	They're described in a statement as about 1.2 meters tall with disproportionately large heads.
	Toward the end of the affidavit, Hout concludes, I'm convinced that what I personally observed was some kind of craft and its crew from outer space.
	What's particularly interesting about Walter Hout is that in the many interviews he gave before his death, he played down his role and he made no such claims.
	He'd been speaking publicly.
	Had he been speaking publicly, he surely would have spoken about the craft and the bodies.
	Did he fear ridicule?
	Or was the affidavit a sort of deathbed confession from someone who had been part of a cover-up, but who had stayed loyal to the very end?
	The U.S. government came under huge pressure on Roswell in the 90s.
	In July of 94, in response to an inquiry from the GAO, General Accounting Office, the Office of the Secretary of the Air Force published a report.
	Remember?
	The Roswell report, Fact versus Fiction in the New Mexico Desert.
	The report concluded that the Roswell incident had been attributable to something called Project Mogul, a top-secret project using high-altitude balloons to carry sensor equipment into the upper atmosphere, listening for evidence of Soviet nuclear testing.
	These statements concerning a crashed weather balloon had been for a cover story, they admitted, but not to hide the truth about extraterrestrials.
	A second U.S. Air Force report concluded and claimed that bodies were recovered by, were actually generated by people having seen crash test dummies that were dropped from the balloons.
	Remember that?
	Skeptics, of course, will dismiss the testimony left by Hout, but I don't.
	Hout, during the time he was alive, never Admitted any of this, but in a sealed document only to be opened upon his death, which has now occurred, everything important that we've heard about Roswell and has come from other sources has now been confirmed by what amounts to a deathbed confession.
	Not exactly that, but a document to be opened on his death in which he virtually confirms everything that everybody's sort of dug for and feels like they've confirmed.
	Now, the legal system gives more weight, a very great deal of weight, to a deathbed confession.
	People just don't lie when they're dying.
	That's all there is to it.
	And the legal system actually recognizes that fact, and I do too.
	Why would he, for all his life, deny this?
	However, construct a document only to be opened when he died in his latter age, written when he was older, that would admit that all of this is absolutely true.
	I believe it.
	And I wonder if you do.
	All these years, we've all heard things about Roswell, virtually what he admits in this document.
	But it's been so easy to, well, not easy to dismiss.
	But I think this is as close as you're going to get to a smoking gun in the Roswell case.
	And I wonder if you also believe that.
	Do you believe this man would have written this to be opened only on his death?
	A man who saw a extraterrestrial craft, a man who saw alien bodies.
	Do you believe he would have written this?
	I believe it.
	And I would like your opinion.
	How much weight do you get?
	And by the way, our guest tonight, Tom Kerry, in the next hour, is going to be talking about this.
	The news broke just as Tom Kerry was getting ready to release his book.
	But tonight, early, just, well, I don't know, an hour, two hours, three hours before the program, along comes this news.com.au story dated, by the way, July 1st, that lays it all out.
	And I called Tom and I said, my God, Tom, did you know about this?
	He said, do you have my book?
	I said, no.
	He said, it is the last chapter.
	In other words, it broke just as they were getting ready to release the book, and they just had enough time to get it in as the last chapter.
	So he'll have a lot to say about this tonight.
	But in the meantime, I really thought I would ask you, all of you, whether you believe now, whether this, I don't know, cinches it for you or not.
	It does for me.
	Whatever doubts I may have had are pretty much gone now.
	I just don't think a man in that position in his latter years would construct such a document not to be taken advantage of while he was alive.
	Now, he could have written books.
	He could have appeared on television.
	He could have made a fortune telling his story, but he didn't.
	In fact, he denied it, didn't allow the story to be told until he was dead.
	I believe him.
	That means we have been visited from elsewhere.
	So I want to know what you think.
	Anyway, here are the numbers.
	If you're west of the Rockies, 800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies, 800-825-5033.
	First time callers, area code 818-501-4721.
	If you're calling on the wildcard lines, and we have many, area code 818-501-4109.
	And finally, outside the country, you're welcome.
	Get hold of the international operator.
	Tell her you want to call 800-893-0903.
	That's 800-893-0903.
	West of the Rockies, hello there.
	You're on the air.
	Hello.
unidentified		Oh, I actually got you.
		Wow, that was amazing.
		Yes.
		So I just wanted to call you, Art, and tell you, I've listened to you for a long time.
		I think you're absolutely amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		So about the Roswell thing, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, do you believe this?
unidentified		Yeah, I mean, I think it's pretty amazing that it all came out now.
unidentified		I've always believed in it, and I just kind of had an intuition about it, but I think it's a great thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I believe it.
		I just don't, you know, if somebody wanted to tell a wild, what would seem like a wild story like this, they'd tell it while they were alive.
		If they wanted to make something out of it, you know, they'd go on interview shows, they'd sell the story to God knows who, and they'd make money.
		But that isn't what the man did.
		He wrote it all down and said, this is not to be opened until I'm dead.
unidentified		Yeah, exactly.
		And when he said that, it kind of reminded me of my grandfather.
		He worked at the Pentagon for a long time back in the 60s.
		He wrote a journal, and my mom still has it, and he told her not to touch it until 10 years after he died.
		So we haven't even still got a chance to look at it, but I'm wondering, you know, there might be something like this in there, something pretty amazing.
		Because, I mean, if you were to tell it when you were alive, you'd be trying to get all the fame, the glory, the money, and all that.
		But at the very end, to say it at the very end, I think that makes it totally different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that means if you believe it, and I certainly believe it, we have been visited.
		That's it.
		We have been visited.
		And it probably means we're currently being visited.
unidentified		Yeah, I definitely think so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can't be a little bit pregnant.
		You know, there's either life out there or there's not.
		To me, this means there is, and they've been here.
unidentified		Right.
		But what do you think, Art?
		I've listened to you for a long time, and I've heard you talk to a lot of different people about a lot of different facets of this, like the quickening, everything that's going on with the environment, plus this, you know, the war.
		I mean, where do you think this is all going, Art?
		Really, your honest opinion?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Honestly, I don't know.
		That is my honest opinion.
		The quickening is certainly speeding up.
		The environment is certainly deteriorating faster than projected, even by some of the more dismal models that are out there.
		And these two things, visitations and the state of the world, may not even be connected.
		But now, I believe it.
		We'll be right back.
		By the way, if you'd like to go up to CoastCoastAM.com, that's Coast T-OCoastAM.com.
		The upper left-hand side, you'll see Arts webcam, and you'll see what I think is kind of a cute picture of Asia and Dolly.
		Dolly is our little Philippine immigrant, and she just loves Asia.
		She absolutely loves Asia.
		If Asia's crying, Dolly will come running.
		It's absolutely amazing.
		In fact, all the cats have been absolutely wonderful with Asia.
		Just wonderful.
		It is a very cute picture.
		No two ways about it.
		Upper left-hand corner of the website where it says Arts Webcam.
		This Roswell thing, with what I've read you tonight, I think qualifies, what does it qualify as?
		The biggest story in human history?
		Something along those lines?
		Easily.
		To me, it means it really happened.
		We really have been visited.
		I wonder where they were from, and I wonder what we've done with them.
		We'll be right back.
		This may be as close as any of us will get in our lifetimes to the truth about Roswell.
		Lieutenant Walter Hout was the PR guy at the base in 1947.
		He's the guy who actually issued the original and subsequent press releases after the crash on the orders of the base commander, Colonel William Blanchard.
		And in this sworn affidavit, only to be opened after his death, he saw it all.
		The craft, the bodies, admitted to cover up the whole thing.
		And as I said, I believe him.
		I believe this.
		He took an oath.
		And he kept it.
		But it doesn't survive his death.
		And so I believe it.
		And I bet a lot of you do too, judging from the fast blast that I'm getting right now.
		Isn't this something?
		Wild card line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		How you doing, Art?
unidentified		My name is Ralph, and I'm calling from Southern Illinois.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Ralph.
unidentified		And I believe it too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		And I also wanted to tell you a wild and strange story that happened to me just a little over 20 years ago down here in Southern Illinois.
		I was out with some friends camping one night, and one of the guys with us, he always kind of dabbled in and kind of joked around with the dark side, and we never really believed him much.
		So we had a fire going in an old creek bed down near the Shawnee National Forest.
		The guy starts encamping some stuff, or whatever you call it, you know, saying some things.
		And he was holding a stick in the middle of the fire, and all of a sudden the flame started jumping up.
		And we all got a little nervous at that point, you know, and at that time I was always, you know, everything I heard, it's like, well, you got to prove it to me kind of thing.
		Well, he did this for quite a while, you know, and he'd say certain things and the flame would change different colors and it would jump higher and higher.
		Well, one of the other guys in our group, he got a little scared and finally we stopped everything and decided, all right, we're going to go back over to our regular campsite.
		Well, as we got ready to leave, we were going through the forest and we heard something, turned around and looked and I caught something out of the side of my eye and it kind of looked like kind of like a gray apparition of some sort.
		And everybody else kind of stopped and nobody said anything.
		Well the next day we were all talking about this and before I had even said what I had seen, two other guys said they saw the same thing.
		It kind of looked like an old, possibly a Confederate soldier or something.
		And that kind of got us a little nervous.
		We went back up to this old creekbed and where we had the fire built.
		It was on top of slabs of rock at the bottom of this old, like I said, this old creekbed.
		And where he had drawn this fire out, he had made a pentagram.
		Every single point in that pentagram was burned about an inch deep into the stone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Now this is, it gets a little weirder.
		We're looking around and all of a sudden we see these weird footprints coming out of where the fire was heading kind of, I guess the direction would have been heading kind of northwest.
		And we see a series of them.
		We start walking along.
		There's like eight feet between each one.
		The bottom half of this print was cloven.
		The top half of it was almost in three prongs on top of a rectangle, almost like a crown.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you set something horrible loose on the world.
unidentified		Well, I didn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were part of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were part of it, sir.
unidentified		I know, and I've always wondered about that.
		Well, this guy that did this, within six months, he was actually, he was from around, I guess, around the Cleveland area.
		He died of a mysterious death.
		I myself, the night that happened, we had went up to go get some more supplies and things, and out of nowhere, I was about five feet away from everybody else in a well-lit parking lot.
		It felt like something like a linebacker just came behind me and shoved me.
		And I flew probably about four or five feet.
		Everybody's kind of looking at me, and a couple guys were looking right at me when it happened.
		They couldn't believe what happened.
		And at first, I thought one of Them did it to me.
		And I had a sprained ankle.
		Weird things happened to this whole group over the next.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it was probably your cloven-footed friend that shoved you.
		Interesting.
		This world is full of so many things that we just don't understand.
		But now, perhaps, we do understand one of the things that actually did happen.
		How big a story is this?
		Does it get any bigger?
		Short of the second coming?
		I don't think so.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Oh, good.
unidentified		Is this coast to coast?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is, yes.
unidentified		All right, good deal.
		I have a story I'd like to tell on the air.
		Is this George tonight?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, this is not George.
unidentified		I'm on the air right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are, yes.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
		When I was 13 years old, approximately, me and two of my buddies, we were going down 28.
		There's a highway out in the country.
		And there was an old road.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where?
		What state?
		I mean, where?
unidentified		In Ohio, Milford, Ohio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		It was a country town back then.
		And going across all like an old gravel road, it was about three miles long, went from 28 to 50.
		We had riding our bikes, and there was a bunch of police cars there that had stopped it.
		And we had thought that there was a wreck down that road, Cook Road.
		And so they wouldn't let us down there.
		They stopped us.
		So we came back up, parked our bikes, we went through the woods.
		And when we got through the woods, this was really bizarre.
		It looked like something had landed, and the trees were breaking down and breaking off.
		And there was probably like a 50, 60 yard round radius where it was the grass was flat and it was burned and kind of twisted a little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So something had landed?
unidentified		Something had landed.
		And then they seen us again and they grabbed us.
		And this time there was police officers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They, meaning the police?
unidentified		Yeah, the police officers and some guys in some suits.
		And they took us to the road and they threatened us if they came back and caught us again, they would take us to our parents.
		But I've seen it.
		I mean, we actually seen it.
		And these were some friends of mine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What you saw was the area where it landed, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You didn't actually see the craft.
unidentified		No, that was the thing.
		There was nothing there.
		And they had the road blocked off.
		So apparently what had ever had crashed or had landed, it was gone.
		It was gone.
		There was nothing there.
		I mean, I don't know what it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whatever it was, it was at that point gone.
		Well, there's a million stories in the night like that one and sightings.
		But rarely do we get anything as solid as Roswell.
		And with tonight's news, in my mind, it locks it up.
		And it may well, in a way, in a sense, it may verify a lot of these other stories, like the one you just heard, and sightings of craft and things that don't belong on Earth.
		It kind of underscores a lot of those, doesn't it?
		I really do wonder where they came from.
		I wonder who they are, and I wonder what they want with us.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm all right, sir.
unidentified		Really love your show.
unidentified		I just wanted to comment on the Roswell incident.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Please, yes.
unidentified		I used to work with classified material with the Air Force and the Army.
		And this is something that I've never heard anybody question.
		But when they were confronted with the story that something had crashed and people had seen this, the Air Force, or I guess back then it would have been the Army, they never would have divulged a top-secret operation such as Mogul to the general public, even as a diversion.
		They would never release that information at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it wasn't released then.
		It was released much later.
		Mogul was, you may recall, Mogul was the cover story that replaced the cover story of the balloon.
unidentified		Right, right.
unidentified		But didn't at the time they mention that there was a weather balloon?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, at the time, yes, that's right.
		At the time, it was, well, they first said, we've got a disc, flying saucer.
		Then within 24 hours, it was a weather balloon.
		And then years later, the ultimate insult came when they...
		God, it was a mess.
		It was just absolutely a laughable mess.
		And that came with the Mogul story and, you know, the cover-up that replaced the cover-up story.
		I'm sorry.
		I believe what I read to you tonight.
		I believe this man who kept his mouth shut all his life and left the document to be opened only at his death.
		I believe him.
		Wildcard line, you are on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Are we only quoting on the Roswell incident?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have something to quote, or you mean talking about it?
unidentified		In reference to, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no, whatever you want.
unidentified		Oh, great.
		I wish you'd have a best of, night.
		I don't know how the format would work on the radio, but you've had some really terrific shows.
		the first one with Bonnie Crystal was fabulous.
		You were originally going to speak to her about her caver explorations and discovered she was a great inventor and all this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they do run best of for streaming purposes.
unidentified		Yeah, well, kind of like a recap, you've actually done a lot of great summary on quantum mechanics and relativity.
		When you have big hype on the Ginger, you had a detective on there who worked, I think, for a current affair, and he was describing how all these millionaire investors were in there, and you quickly went to how, well, how did you get in here?
		And he commented on how his friend always tries this and gets whisked in a limousine, but he is able at the airport to shake president's hand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there have been a lot of, thank you, there have been a lot of very good programs, and they do, of course, a best out for streaming.
		I suppose you could put together a show with, you know, which would encompass years and years and years of a lot of it was breaking and very interesting news.
		You could do that.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yes, hi.
		Ard Bale?
		Yes.
		Hello, this is Edna P. Pringle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Edna Pringle.
unidentified		I just wanted to tell you that I'm very sorry for those nasty things I wrote to you, and I was under the influence of JC, and I was not thinking clearly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, JC, let's see, I spoke with him about a week ago, and he was under the impression that very shortly you were going to be back at the compound with him.
unidentified		I have to tell you that I've been a bit worried because I have heard that he was trying to track me down.
		Oh, yes.
		And I think I saw a friend of his in the town I'm staying.
		But, you know, I just wanted to ask you also, it's an honor speaking with you, but would you accept my apology?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course I would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you wrote some disturbing things to me, but I understand you were under the influence of JC, of course.
unidentified		Yes, and I have some good friends here in Woodstock, New York, who are looking out for me.
unidentified		But I was wondering, that compound that you and George Norrie live at and pay rump, I was wondering if...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		George Norrie does not live here.
unidentified		Oh, JC told me you had a compound, you and George Norrie there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he's wrong.
unidentified		Oh, well, I was wondering, you know, maybe I could stay at your compound.
unidentified		I could take care of your little baby.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, thanks for the offer, Edna.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But if I were you, I think I'd keep your head down because, you know, JC's out there and he's looking for you hard.
unidentified		Yes, I know.
unidentified		And I wanted to tell you that I do believe, in answer to your question, I believed about that before this came out on this fellow who died.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you mean Roswell?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So even Edna believes now that this is the real McCoy.
		You know, I shouldn't have let you say where you are.
		I know JC really is looking very, very hard for you, Edna.
		So now he knows the town you're in if you told the truth.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Going once.
		Going twice.
		Gone.
		Let's go to this wildcard line.
		You're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Could you clear up one thing for me?
		I would appreciate it.
		You're an old Air Force person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		And I've listened and loved you for years.
		But it sure sounds like anytime you personally are talking about a UFO that you're insinuating that it's otherworldly.
		Is that right or wrong?
		Well, wrong.
		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A UFO is an unidentified flying object.
		It doesn't mean it's extraterrestrial.
		It means it's an object in the air and it's not identified.
unidentified		Okay, I just wondered if that's what you're coming to the conclusion because you've talked about triangles and it seems to me that the way you talk about just UFOs, I love your show, is that you believe them to be otherworldly, but I'm not putting words in your mouth if that's what it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, good, don't, because that's not true.
		I thought I just clarified it for you.
		Let me do it again.
		And Andra...
		I beg your pardon?
unidentified		Sorry to interrupt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An object in the air that is not identified is a UFO.
		However, for example, with respect to what we're talking about tonight, we're talking about a man who, following his death, told the story of what happened at Roswell.
		Now, he saw a flying saucer.
		He saw a disc.
		He also saw bodies, non-human bodies.
		What does that sound like to you?
unidentified		Well, I don't know about the bodies, but the disks, the U.S. Air Force has had disks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In 19...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not then.
unidentified		Well, I don't know about...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		60 years ago.
unidentified		Pardon?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was 60 years ago now, sir.
unidentified		Yeah, I know, but are you telling me you don't really know, Art?
unidentified		Nobody really knows.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm just telling you what is in the document that this man left to be open now, which has been opened, following his death.
unidentified		Okay.
		Well, I just, you cleared it for me.
		Thank you very much, and I'll stick with you.
		You have a great night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're very welcome.
		No, even the giant triangle I saw, I can't tell you that it was from elsewhere.
		In fact, I think that in every instance that I have described it, although I have said clearly, and we'll say again, that it appeared to be defying gravity, It appeared to be of large mass.
		It could have been some sort of experimental lighter-than-aircraft, something.
		And I think I've clearly stated on each occasion that I've discussed it that I have no real way of knowing where it came from.
		But in the case of Roswell, we're talking about a disk, a flying saucer, seen on the ground, crashed.
		We're talking about biological entities that were small and non-human.
		And again, we're talking about the man who was the public relations officer for the base way back in 1947, who now following his death has left a document saying that he saw all of this.
		To me, that has meaning.
		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I'm Art Bell.
		Indeed, here I am.
		Tom Kerry has been a mutual UFO network, a MUFON State Director in Southeastern Pennsylvania, a special investigator for the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies, as well as a member of the CUFOS CUFOS Board of Directors.
		Tom began investigating aspects of the Roswell incident in 1991 for the Roswell investigative team of Kevin Randall and Don Schmidt, and since 98 has teamed exclusively with Don Schmidt to continue a proactive investigation.
		Tom has authored or co-authored over 30 published articles about the Roswell events of 1947 and has contributed to a number of books on the subject as well.
		He appeared as a guest on many radio and television shows throughout the country.
		This will be his first on Coast and has contributed to a number of Roswell-related documents on screen and behind the scenes.
		Most recently, Tom was a consultant and interviewee with Don Schmidt on the sci-fi channel documentary, The Roswell Crash, Startling New Evidence, 2002, and the History Channel's Conspiracy Theory, Roswell 2005, Travel Channel's Weird America, Roswell 2005, and the Sci-Fi Channel's Sci-Fi Investigates, Roswell 2006.
		In a moment, Tom Kerry.
		Tom Kerry, welcome to Coast to Coast AM.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Art.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Good to be with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Great to have you.
		Now, listen, be aware.
		As you know, or I should inform the audience, I called you when I bumped into this news.com.au news story breaking dated July 1st.
		Now, I called you earlier in the evening and I said, oh, my God, this is pretty good timing.
		And you said, well, it was the last chapter in my book.
		I read it to the audience, not the chapter in your book, but the news.com.au story in the first hour because I think it is really, really important.
		It's going to kind of jump ahead in terms of our interview.
		And I understand that.
		But, my God, what a story.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Well, we thought it was the sealed statement was something that Walter Hout wanted to do in 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's when he actually wrote it?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Up until that point, he had more or less said the same story over and over again, the same account of his involvement in the Roswell incident, namely that of the base public information officer who distributed the famous press release to the news media in Roswell.
		And over the years, I knew Walter for ever since my first trip to Roswell in 1994, I think it was.
		And a finer gentleman you could never hope to meet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, again, he was, of course, the public relations officer at the base in 1947.
		Now, in the years prior to his passing, just for the record, what was his official story?
		What did he tell everybody?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		His official story was that he was in his office on Tuesday, July the 8th, 1947, when he received a phone call from the base commander,
		the commander of the 509th Bomb Group, William Blanchard, that Blanchard wanted him to take down a statement that he was going to dictate to him announcing the capture of a flying saucer, as they were called in those days.
		And so he took the statement down.
		I think it began the many rumors concerning the flying saucer, etc., are true, and it went on for a bit.
		So around noontime, First Lieutenant Hout went around to the four news media, two radio stations, two newspapers in Roswell with the news release, press release, and went back to his desk.
		And that was the end of his involvement, according to his story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's what he maintained the whole time he was alive since the incident.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Occasionally he would say something additionally like, I believe it was the UFO, just don't ask me why, things like that.
		But if you knew Walter and if you knew people, you knew, at least in my opinion, here was a man who was carrying a secret that he was not divulging.
		Whenever we would ask him questions, further questions About Roswell, this was before the sealed statement.
		He would say, in addition to that, his story was whenever he was sort of pushed into a corner, he would say, I just can't remember.
		It was too long ago.
		So things he didn't want to answer, that was his standard response.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How old was he when he passed?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		I think he was like 80, early 80s.
		I don't know exactly which, but he was in her early 80s.
		But when he crafted the sealed statement, he was in good health.
		And he wanted to leave a legacy of truth.
		Now, also, we talked, you know, why would he do this?
		Someone who was Blanchard's right-hand man, how could he not know more than what he was saying?
		I mean, he had to know.
		He was Blanchard's right-hand man.
		Blanchard knew everything.
		And for years and years, it was, well, that's all I know.
		And we would say, well, weren't you the least bit curious?
		And that's when he would say, well, geez, I can't remember now, but that's all that I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so you knew him.
		Tell me about him.
		What kind of man was he?
		You said he was a fine man.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		No, he was just a fine gentleman.
		He was the type of person that if you organized a group of any sort, he was the one you would want to elect president.
		Everybody liked him, smiled all the time, and he just had that demeanor.
		He was about 6'3, 6'4, tall man that just had a presence about him.
		And the other thing was that Blanchard really liked Walter Hout.
		And Hout could have followed Blanchard all the way to the Pentagon and certainly at a minimum have been a colonel.
		But perhaps he could have got a star or two because Blanchard was earmarked for the chief of staff of the Air Force.
		And being the right-hand man of a potential chief of staff, you would just go right up the line yourself.
		So that was also curious to us as to why he would not follow Blanchard and choose to remain in Roswell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How long was Walter Howitt in the military service?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		I think he joined in 1942 or thereabouts, and he got out, I think it was 1948.
		He was a bombardier in World War II, B-29s, and he and Blanchard hooked up at Roswell.
		And I think Hout was also in that famous Operation Crossroads in 1946 in some capacity in which Blanchard was already the commander of the 509th Bomb Group.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So he was probably, it was what, five years prior to his death, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		2002, you said he wrote this?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		December of 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who was aware of the fact that he wrote this?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		His family, my co-author Don Schmidt, and myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So he wrote this and put it where?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know if he kept it in a empty box of white owls or a safe.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		I don't know, but certainly with the family.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did he ever make any reference to you, Tom, that he had signed some sort of security promise or that he had ever been in any way threatened?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Not threatened.
		I don't think Walter Howd is the kind of person you threaten.
		I think he wouldn't really tell you where to go, irregardless of the rank.
		But we do know this, that William Blanchard, his commanding officer, and he had a very close relationship, almost like father, son, uncle, nephew, something like that, a very good relationship.
		And we had bandied it about, and we turned out to be right that he had promised Butch, Blanchard's nickname, that he would never talk about it.
		And Blanchard had asked him, and he promised that he would not talk about the Roswell incident.
		So he was keeping a secret for Butch all of these years.
		But in the end, before he checked out, he did want to have a record of the truth about what went down at Roswell in 1947.
		And the sealed statement was his vehicle to give the truth, but also not tell it during his life.
		So he would keep the promise that he made the butch.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Understood.
		Well, when the Air Force had their now infamous, it was dummies that were Dropped and tried to, you know, the mogul and then the whole mogul business.
		If that had been the real cover story, certainly at that point, he would have felt free to discuss any aspect of Roswell because the Air Force themselves were supposedly going public saying, okay, finally, here is the real, we can finally now tell you the real truth about what happened at Roswell.
		It was a secret project.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		That makes perfect sense.
		It reminds me of one of the pilots from Roswell in 1947, Pappy Henderson, when he was in the, you know, he was sworn to secrecy.
		He was in a supermarket in 1980 or 81, somewhere in there, and he saw on one of the tabloids a story about the Roswell incident.
		And he told his wife Sappho, well, I guess I can tell you the story now.
		I see that it's out.
		Yes.
		So if Mogul had been the explanation, like you say, I would have thought that he would feel that, okay, it's okay to talk now.
unidentified		Sure.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Makes sense to me.
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you don't know where this – Were you part of, I mean, how did you know that he was doing that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did he tell you and tell the world or his wife or whoever?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, he told his family, of course.
		And his daughter, Julie, is the director of the UFO Museum in Roswell, and Don Schmidt is on the board of directors.
		And we are good friends.
		So it was, and Don and I go down to Roswell several times a year to conduct our research.
		So we were pretty good friends with the family.
		So I think it's natural that we would know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But he didn't, in other words, even those close to him did not know.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		They did not know his true involvement, his true knowledge of the incident until the sealed statement was opened.
		I believe it was, well, he passed last year, so it would be late last year that it was open.
		They did not know his involvement, the extent of his involvement beyond the press release until that sealed statement was opened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would think, Tom, that this would be so serious, what we're discussing right now, that it would almost require some sort of response from the military or from somebody.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Well, we hear just tangentially that, you know, the Air Force has already under their belt four explanations to Roswell.
		The original, that it was a flying saucer.
		The second one was that it was a weather balloon.
		The third one was that it was a mogul balloon.
		And the fourth one has to do with the crash test dummies.
		So their next explanation will be their fifth.
		And I'm sure they really mean it this time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think there will be a fifth?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you do not.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you think they will simply not respond in any way to this?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		If they respond, they will stand by what they've already got out there.
		Because the fourth explanation, the reporters in the room were howling with laughter, so I don't know if they want to go through that again.
		And if you keep changing your explanations at some point, people don't believe you anymore.
unidentified		Yeah, so well, that's right.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't think they will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got to tell you, Tom, this virtually cinches it for me.
		I mean, I had a big question mark over Roswell all my life, but this really does cinch it for me.
		It honestly does.
		People, they just don't.
		Look, I said it to the audience in the first hour, and I'll say it to you now.
		If he had wanted to make something of this, he was in a position where he could have written books, made a lot of money, done any TV and radio appearance he wished to do, and really just could have done anything he wanted while he was alive with this.
		So the fact that he didn't and wrote this document, the sworn affidavit, and only to be opened after he was dead, it really does cinch it for me, Tom.
		What about you?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Well, Art, I was convinced before the sealed statement.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		For me, the sealed statement is sort of the icing on the cake because I already had come to the conclusion of what went down at Roswell because of our investigation, which is ongoing.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I would like to talk about that.
		In other words, yes, you were convinced before this.
		Well, I wasn't, but I'd be very interested in hearing what did it for you.
		I know you've been investigating for years.
		So maybe you can sort of, I don't know, lead us through your investigation and get to what actually cinched it for you prior to this.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's start here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did you even get interested in the whole subject?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		That's an interesting question.
		It was in 1991.
		I was a reading member of the QFOS, the Center for UFO Studies.
		I received their quarterly magazine.
		And there was an investigative team in there of Kevin Randall and Don Schmidt who were publishing articles about the Roswell incident.
		Now, I had read the Roswell incident book when it came out in 1980.
		And that, as far as my interest in UFOs, that sort of sensed it for me as to my real focus was the crash saucer phenomenon.
		And it seemed to me that Randall and Schmidt had an investigation going on, which I just found fascinating.
		And one of the aspects of the investigation actually goes back to the original book, The Roswell Incident, about these archaeologists that stumbled upon the crashed saucer and some crew members lying about.
		Of course, that was the old Barney Barnett story at that point, but the involvement of the archaeologists is what interested me because of my background in anthropology and archaeology.
		And the fact that these archaeologists allegedly came from the University of Pennsylvania.
		And myself, living near Philadelphia, I thought, well, geez, this ought to be a slam dunk for me to go down To the university and find out who they were.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Hold it right there, Tom.
		Tom Carey is my guest.
		He's a first-time guest on Coast, but a long-time investigator of the Roswell case.
		And we have big new news on Roswell tonight.
		We'll be right back.
		Here I am.
		All right, everybody.
		It's breaking everywhere now at this hour.
		We're collecting stories from thisislondon.co.uk.
		So from England, I'm seeing yet another story I just found.
		Daily Mail in London also just broke the story.
		So at this hour, it's breaking worldwide.
		What am I talking about?
		I'm talking about Lieutenant Walter Hout.
		And it's funny the way news stories break, isn't it?
		Actually, Tom got it in the last chapter of his book.
		And we'll find out the timing on that here shortly.
		But this is just breaking now around the world.
		It's one of those stories that once it breaks in one place, it's going to break everywhere.
		And thank goodness, the timing is absolutely perfect for this night.
		And my guest, Tom Kerry, the subject Roswell, breaking news.
		We'll be right back.
		Tom, we've got to come back to it for a moment here because it's breaking in the mainstream press very rapidly.
		I've now got two stories from Great Britain, which has always just bugged the hell out of me, the fact that I've got to get important news about things that occur here in the U.S. from other nations, particularly from Great Britain and, of course, Australia.
		Now, Tom, why do you think this is virtually, as we're speaking, at this hour, beginning to break so hard in the mainstream press?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		That's a good question, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		When our book came out, I tried to interest our local media here in Philadelphia about not only the 60th anniversary that's approaching, but also our book and the fact that there was a local angle, meaning me, that was involved in the case.
		And so far they've shown no interest.
		But apparently across the world, in Australia and Great Britain, they have a different attitude.
		Now, I think, I'm guessing this is just speculation as to why it's breaking now, is that last week, Bill Burns from UFO magazine, the publisher of UFO magazine, held a press conference in New York City announcing the sealed statement of Walter Hout.
		And of course, he gave the source of the statement as our book.
		But the fact that he held it in New York City, perhaps there were other newsmen there from Wherever, and the internet being what it is, you know how word gets around much faster these days than when the first Roswell book came out.
		So, I'm guessing that's how it's happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is only tangent, it's not really related.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, you remember the Phoenix lights?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I covered that.
		I was on the air the night that happened.
		I took call after call after call after call.
		Witnesses, people who were frantic, saw the Phoenix lights, saw the craft, swore to me they had seen a solid craft and so forth and so on.
		The whole night, that's all we did, was take calls.
		Phoenix, Phoenix, Phoenix.
		Then for three months, Tom, it went deader than a doornail.
		Not a word.
		And then like somebody threw a switch, ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, all of them were on the Phoenix lights like it had happened hours ago.
		It's like somebody threw a switch.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		It's like somebody has to take the lead, I presume, and report it, and then the others will follow.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		But maybe sometimes no one wants to take that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it's happening Again, right before our eyes, right now.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		And so that's good to hear from our perspective.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess so.
		I guess so.
		Tell me how you managed to get it in your book.
		Your book came out how long ago?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		We finished it in December, and it came out three weeks ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Three weeks ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And when did you get the information on the sealed statement into the book as the last chapter?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		December.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		December?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		So it was in the manuscript.
		We finished the manuscript in December, sent it to the publisher, and it hit the bookstores, most notably Barnes and Noble, three weeks ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Three weeks ago.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's incredible.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		And it had an incredible start, and we're going into our second printing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Already.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what kind of reaction have you been getting to that last chapter?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Well, Don and I have been getting a lot of emails, and all of them are outstanding.
		I mean, the feedback has been outstanding.
		But what's interesting is that while the media seems to have latched on to the sealed statement, the emails that we're getting are more just about the wealth of information, the wealth of new information in the book.
		The sealed statement we put in there to be the crown jewel of the book and placing it last for best effect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you understand, don't you, why it's such a big deal.
		Oh, absolutely.
		A man who could have made a lot of money, who could have been famous, could have virtually done anything he wanted to do with that information when he was alive, to have written it as an affidavit, as an affidavit, and one only to be opened on his death.
		It's a big story.
		I'm glad the press now is recognizing it as such.
		And I suppose eventually we're going to see something in the American media virtually any minute.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		We hope.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, let's come back for a moment.
		Even though this certainly qualifies as breaking news, let's come back to, I guess what got you or what convinced you, and that's a strong word, convinced, convinced you about Roswell in the first place?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Well, I liked the first book, the 1980, the Roswell incident, but it was the Randall Schmidt book of 1991, UFO Crash at Roswell, that really, for me, got me thinking, wow, this is, because they had so much new information in it.
		I thought, wow, here's a lot of work done, and boy, did they uncover a lot of new information about the case, testimony and what have you.
		And I said, boy, there's really something to this.
		Now, Don and I teamed up in 1998.
		Now, this is a year after the hoopla from the 1997, 50th anniversary, where the media really took to the case.
		And most of the former investigators, I feel, packed it in at that point, 1997.
		Before the show, I looked through my library here at the Roswell books that I had.
		Most of them were written in 1997, 10 years ago.
		So Don and I wanted to continue a proactive, I emphasized the word proactive, investigation of the case, meaning that we're not going to sit around and wait for leads to plop in our laps.
		We're going to go out there and shake the tree and see what we can find.
		We didn't know what we would find, but there were still a number of witnesses that hadn't been talked to, many of them, and enough out there that it made it worthwhile for us to continue.
		And the continuing wealth of information from witness testimony, and believe me, they're not talking about a weather balloon or a high-altitude balloon that they are not, is what sort of put the nail in the coffin for me of any other explanation other than a UFO crashed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think you know for sure?
		Gosh, I say for sure.
		You talk to witnesses.
		What kind of things did they tell you?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Well, the witnesses that we talk to, they don't know the whole story.
		They only know their little piece of it.
		Sure.
		What they saw, what somebody told them, in some cases, what they handled.
		And it's our job to put the little pieces of the puzzle into a framework that makes sense.
		And that's the way we look at it.
		Now, we've found new witnesses who have seen the bodies.
		A number of them say that one was alive.
		We believe there were two body sites.
		One up on the Foster Ranch where Mac Brazil discovered all of that wreckage in his sheep pasture.
		There's a site two miles from there where Mac found something else, which we believe were three bodies.
		There's another body site 40 miles north of Roswell in Chavez County where the remainder of the craft that blew up over Brazil's pasture came to rest.
		We believe it was an escape pod or an escape capsule or some sort of interior protective device in case of some malfunction.
		And it came to rest north of town with four occupants and one which was alive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		That's what's always bothered me.
		On the ranch, I never felt, although obviously I wasn't there and I didn't see how much debris there was.
		But, you know, they discussed the material that would bend but wouldn't burn or couldn't be torn or whatever.
		And I always thought, well, that's interesting, but we're not talking about a craft here.
		And now we're talking about other crash sites.
		So, in other words, only part of this came down on the farm and the rest of it came down elsewhere, yes?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes, exactly.
		And along the way, three occupants were blown out and landed two and a half miles from the original debris field site.
		So we're talking about seven occupants, one of which was alive, at least for a period of time, a sheep pasture maybe a mile long and a couple hundred feet wide, just covered with wreckage in small pieces, and an egg-shaped pod or an escape capsule of some sort that continued on for another few miles and came to rest about 40 miles north of town.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tom, how detailed a description of the occupants do we have?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		What is the best?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		They are all the same.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're all the same.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes, the descriptions we're getting are very similar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many witnesses are we talking about?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you say they're all the same, how many witnesses contributed descriptions that match?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Oh, geez.
		I'd have to sit down.
		I mean, it's like over 10, maybe 20.
		I'd have to sit down and just add them up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		10 to 20, somewhere in there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a lot of people.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you give me your best shot at describing what they described, please?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Three and a half to four feet tall, maybe 40 pounds.
		Very frail, but the overriding feature is a large head.
		Everyone describes a large hairless head, shaped like an inverted pear or an inverted egg, slightly slanted eyes, not like these big black ovals that you see in the abduction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the grays.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The supposed grays, right?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, not like that.
		Just slightly larger than ours.
		It's slightly slanted.
		One witness described them as he described them as tear-shaped, like tears, you know, and you can imagine, just picture that.
		No nose, just two little holes in the front of the head for nostrils.
		Two holes for ears, no ear lobe, no fleshy part of the ear.
		A slit about one inch to one and a half inches where the mouth would be.
		A mouth that doesn't go anywhere.
		It's just made up of cartilage and a little orifice in there, but it doesn't lead to a digestive system.
unidentified		So what am I leaving out?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Oh, the color.
		Oh, arms that go below the knees.
		The color is variously reported as mostly grayish, but with tints of either green, blue, orange, yellow.
		And we think that that has to do with the state of decay or preservation and perhaps lighting.
		But several military witnesses described, like Pappy Henderson described them as reminding him of Casper the Ghost, the old cartoon character.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Friendly ghost, yeah.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Another witness, we believe Jesse Marcel saw the bodies.
		That's another new Jesse Marcel Sr., that's another conclusion of our book, is that Jesse Marcel saw them at some point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if so, did he describe that to his son?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because I've interviewed on a number of occasions his son.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		No, no, we got the information from a third party.
		And the information was that Jesse told him that they reminded him of white rubbery figures.
		Now, to me, that means something like either the Pillsbury Doughboy or the Michelin man.
		But white rubbery figures.
		And someone else, oh, another witness by the name of Marion Magruder, an Air Force pilot, night fighter pilot in World War II, described them.
		He saw them at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in late July 1947 with the Air War College class.
		He just described them as squiggly.
		So those are some of the descriptions.
		But the three and a half to four feet tall is pretty much described by everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, what about the one that was still alive?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do we know about that one, if anything?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		That one, we have, how long it lasted or how long it lived is a matter of conjecture.
		We have someone who said that there's been a story around for years that it was at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base until 1952, at which time it expired.
		If the World War II pilot, Mary Magruder, is to believe he saw it late July at Wright-Pat.
		Others seem to feel that it expired soon after it was brought to the base hospital.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, either way, if this is true, then through various means, including autopsy and a lot more, we know an awful lot about these beings.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Well, we know what they look like.
		We know where they were taken.
		In fact, one of the witnesses at the site, this is before it was removed to the hospital, his family asked him, well, did it talk to you?
		Did it speak to you?
		And he Said, yes, but in my head.
		You know, he didn't say anything about mental telepathy or anything like that.
		He just said that the being talked to him in his head and that it told him not to worry, that it was all right, that there was nothing that he could do, that he was accepting his fate.
		Something like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, he knew he was going to die.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Well, that he wouldn't get back to where he came from, that he was more or less stuck.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		but that he accepted it and not to worry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Um, how much, How much credence do you give to this report?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was told by a public official in Roswell who was at the site, and we got it.
		He was gone by the time that the investigators came around, and we got it from a family member whom we believe.
		So we think the credibility of the story is high.
		He had no reason to make this up.
		He didn't make any money off of it.
		And it was told to the family at the time, not after the books came out, but it was told in 1947.
		The family was severely threatened with their lives never to speak of this.
		And we got the story in the 90s, a few years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, folks, this is breaking in a sense.
		So if you want to read about it, coastocoastam.com, we've got it up there now.
		Scroll down on the front page, Hot Stories for Saturday, June 30th.
		Roswell Officer's Deathbed Admission is the title of the story.
		This one from thisislondon.co.uk.
		So this one's coming from Great Britain, and we've managed to get it up there.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		I would like to report that they're getting their story from our book, Witness to Roswell Unmasking the 60-Year Cover-Up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Got it.
		Clearly, you had it ahead of seemingly everybody else.
		Was there anybody at all, Tom, to your knowledge, that broke the story ahead of your book?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		No, because there were only two copies of the sealed statement, one that the family had and one that we had a copy our investigation had.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		So, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
		I love the way the world's press operates.
		I just absolutely love it.
		Tom, hold tight.
		We're a breaking news evening underway.
		Tom Kerry is my guest.
		The subject is Roswell, but the news, for us, is brand new.
		All right, I've just been sent something that I'd like to authenticate.
		Tom, if you're there, I've got a quick question for you.
		If you were to hear the affidavit of Walter G. Hout, would you be able to authenticate it?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		If I would hear it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, if you would hear it, would you be able to tell me if it was authentic?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have a copy in my book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		I'm going to ask you then to hold on.
		In a moment, we'll come back, and I'm going to read it.
		And you can tell me if it's word for word correct or not.
		We'll be right back.
		I want to thank Doug, who is an amateur radio operator, for sending me the following.
		Here it comes, folks.
		2002 sealed affidavit of Walter G. Hout.
		Date, December 26, 2002.
		Witness, Chris, and then it's X'd out.
		Notary, Beverly, and I don't want to read the last name.
		I'll hold that back.
		Here it comes.
		One, my name is Walter G. Hout.
		Two, I was born on June 2nd, 1922.
		Three, my address is 1405, 7th Street, Roswell, New Mexico, 88203.
		4.
		I am retired.
		5.
		In July 1947, I was stationed at the Roswell Army Air Base in Roswell, New Mexico, serving as the base public information officer.
		I had spent the 4th of July weekend, Saturday the 5th and Sunday the 6th at my private residence about 10 miles north of the base, which was located south of town.
		6.
		I was aware that someone had reported the remains of a downed vehicle by mid-morning after my return to duty at the base Monday, July 7th.
		I was aware that Major Jesse A. Marcel, head of intelligence, was sent by the base commander, Colonel William Blanchard, to investigate.
		7.
		By late in the afternoon that same day, I would learn that additional civilian reports came in regarding a second site just north of Roswell.
		I would spend the better part of the day attending to my regular duties, hearing little, if anything, more.
unidentified		8.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On Tuesday morning, July 8th, I would attend the regularly scheduled staff meeting at 7.30 a.m.
		Besides Blanchard, Marcel, CIC, Counterintelligence Corps, Captain Sheridan Cavett, Colonel James, I believe it's I. Hopkins, the operations officer, Lieutenant Ulysses S. Nero, the supply officer,
		and from Carswell Air Force AAF in Fort Worth, Texas, Blanchard's boss, Brigadier General Roger Ramey, and his chief of staff, Colonel Thomas Du Bois, J. Du Bois, were in attendance.
		The main topic of discussion was reported by Marcel and Cavett regarding an extensive debris field in Lincoln County, approximately 75 miles northwest of Roswell.
		A preliminary briefing was provided by Blanchard about the second site, approximately 40 miles north of town.
		Samples of wreckage were passed around the table.
		It was unlike any material I have ever seen in my life.
		Pieces which resembled metal foil, paper thin, yet extremely strong, and pieces with unusual markings along their length were handed from man to man, each voicing their opinion.
		No one was able to identify the crashed debris.
		9.
		One of the main concerns discussed at the meeting was whether we should go public or not with the discovery.
		General Ramey proposed a plan, which I believe originated from his bosses at the Pentagon.
		Attention needed to be diverted from the more important site north of town by acknowledging the other location.
		Too many civilians were already involved, and the press already was informed.
		I was not immediately informed how this would be accomplished.
		10.
		At approximately 9.30 a.m., Colonel Blanchard phoned my office and dictated the press release of having in our possession a flying disc coming from a ranch northwest of Roswell and Marcel flying the material to higher headquarters.
		I was to deliver the news release to radio stations KGFL and KSWS and newspapers The Daily Record and the Morning Dispatch.
		11.
		By the time the news release hit the wire services, my office was inundated with phone calls from around the world.
		Messages stacked up on my desk.
		And rather than deal with the media concern, Colonel Blanchard suggested I go home and hide out.
		That's in quotes.
		12.
		Before leaving the base, Colonel Blanchard took me personally to Building 84, aka Hangar P, as in Paul 3, a B-29 hangar located on the east side of the tarmac.
		Upon first approaching the building, I observed that I was under heavy guard both outside and inside.
		Once inside, I was permitted from a safe distance to observe the object just recovered from north of town.
		It was approximately 12 to 15 feet in length, not quite as wide, about 6 feet high, and more of an egg shape.
		Lighting was poor, but its surface did appear metallic.
		No windows, portals, wings, tail section, or landing gear were visible.
		13.
		Also, from a distance, I was able to see a couple of bodies under a canvas tarpaulin.
		Only the heads extended beyond the covering, and I was not able to make out any features.
		The heads did appear larger than normal, and the contour of the canvas suggested the size of a 10-year-old child.
		At a later date in Blanchard's office, he would extend his arm about four feet above the floor to indicate the height.
		14.
		I was informed of a temporary morgue set up to accommodate the recovered bodies.
		15.
		I was informed that the wreckage was not hot, in parentheses, radioactive.
		16.
		Upon his return from Fort Worth, Major Marcel described to me taking pieces of the wreckage to General Ramey's office and after returning from a map room, finding the remains of a weather balloon and radar kite substituted while he was out of the room.
		Marcel was very upset over this situation.
		We would not discuss it again.
		17.
		I would be allowed to make at least one visit to one of the recovery sites during the military cleanup.
		I would return to the base with some of the wreckage which I would display in my office.
		18.
		I was aware two separate teams would return to each site months later for periodic searches for any remaining evidence.
		19.
		I am convinced that what I personally observed was some type of craft and its crew from outer space.
		20.
		I have not been paid nor given anything of value to make this statement, and it is the truth to the best of my recollection.
		Signed, Walter G. Hout, December 26, 2002.
		Signature witnessed by Chris, and then it's X'd out.
		Tom, did I read the real thing?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Word for word.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you got it, folks.
unidentified		That's it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad for some personal reasons that I was able to air this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess I've been waiting for this for a long time, Tom, and I guess when you first saw it, you must have felt the same way.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Of course, I knew of its existence, but when I actually read it, it just, for me, it confirmed everything that I knew or suspected.
		And Walter being the kind of person he was, you know, you would not think it was anything other than the truth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't.
		I believe it.
		Word for word, completely.
		I believe it, Tom.
		It's as simple as that.
		We've been visited.
		Wow.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Certainly this, I don't know about other cases, but certainly the Roswell case, to me, is a case that strongly suggests, I can only use those words, strongly suggest as an investigator, a case of alien visitation.
		It's the simplest explanation to use Occam's razor that explains the data.
		Anything else, you have to go far afield to make it fit.
		The wealth of information that we have, the only thing that fits is an extraterrestrial craft and crew.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, obviously.
		Tom, do you know offhand, you know, and I'm reaching out on the edge now, but during the telepathic communication, you indicated that the creature said it accepted its fate, knew it wasn't going to go home.
		Was there anything else about the beings themselves, the reason, the motivation for the visit, anything at all that was allegedly communicated by this being?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Not to this witness.
		If anything like that would have transpired, I would suspect that it was when it was in uh not well, captivity, uh I don't like to use that word, but when it was probably the right word when it was uh in the care of our military at either at the Wright-Patterson or we, you know, perhaps it was loaned elsewhere, we don't know.
		But as far as we're concerned, that gets into the area of speculation because we're asked that question occasionally, you know, where were they from?
		Why were they here?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, again, how many bodies total?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		I believe there were seven, one alive for at least a period of time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With the one being one of the seven?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Do we have any idea where these bodies, I mean, obviously we still have them somewhere.
		We would have kept these bodies forever and ever.
		Do you have any guesses or knowledge about where they might be now?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Where they are at as we speak, I don't know.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		But we do know that they were loaned around for study.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Loaned around?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		To various military bases that had facilities to examine them further.
		One being one that I'm aware of is Randolph Air Force Base near San Antonio, Texas.
		We had a story from a fellow who was a civilian there back in 1964.
		That's back when I was in the Air Force.
		That he saw one there, and Randolph has an aeromedical facility, which is a medical facility.
		And he saw one there in 1964.
		We have reports of one or more being in Florida.
		There's three bases that I know of, Homestead, Egland, and MacDill.
		I don't know which one, but certainly reports there.
		We know one of the flights went there out of Roswell.
		We know one of the flights went to Florida.
		Whether it took one of the bodies, we don't know, but we can speculate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Tom.
		Here's another speculative question.
		This was a long time ago now.
		60 years ago now.
		Tom, do we think we understand why the government, the military, why our leaders felt it necessary for this amount of time to keep this?
		You know, I mean, it's the biggest story in the world.
		There is not a bigger story if we've been visited by beings from elsewhere.
		Why they felt it necessary to keep this secret for 60 years.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		We don't believe there's any logical reason today to keep it secret because of the discoveries of other planets in the universe, a small number of which seem to resemble Earth.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		There's no good reason today, in my opinion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just the perpetuation of secrecy?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, once you've told a lie, then I suppose we all know how lies go.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		We believe that's what's keeping the secret today, or the cover-up, is that the perpetuation of a lie.
		But back in 1947, there were good logical reasons to keep this secret.
		They didn't know.
		At first, they thought it was Russian.
		Then they realized it wasn't Russian, and it became with the dawn of the Cold War that we have to keep this secret from the Russians.
		Perhaps we can exploit its technology, and let's keep it secret from the Soviet Union.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, then, you know, that's understandable.
		I mean, it really is.
		But the Soviet Union is gone.
		No more.
		No more.
		It seems to me this sealed affidavit blows it all wide open.
		Now, there's going to have to be some answers.
		I mean, there's going to have to be a response to this, Tom.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		You would think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, this is not like the other evidence, which I admit is compelling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is really compelling.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		I mean, again, this man was on the inside.
		He saw a lot.
		He was the right-hand man of the base commander who was when he passed away, when the base, when Blanchard passed away at age 50, he was second in command of the entire Air Force.
		He was vice chief of staff, four stars.
		He was scheduled to become the next chief of staff of the Air Force.
		Not something you would give to someone who would make a boo-boo back in 1947 and get everybody excited over a weather balloon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		No, that's exactly right.
		This really blows it open.
		All right.
		You describe these beings three and a half, four feet tall, 40 pounds, perhaps frail, very frail, large heads, slightly slanted eyes, tear-shaped eyes, arms that extended down below their knees.
		I think it's time that our government and our military gave it up.
		Obviously, they've got these bodies.
		It's time, Tom.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		You would think.
		You would think.
		Especially the, you know, I think people are accepting.
		I mean, it's not the days of, remember the old Science fiction movies with the Earth versus the Flying Saucers, that sort of stuff in those days anymore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Although, one has to wonder if there is something beyond what you know and I know now, tonight, that they may have found out that caused them to keep this secret.
		In other words, more than just building on a lie or holding on to a lie.
		Maybe there's something that they found out, some technology that was back-engineered.
		I don't know.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		The only other thing that makes quasi-sense is that in the early 60s, the Brookings Institution conducted a study of the potential effects of contact with an extraterrestrial civilization, and all the potential effects were bad.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Destruction of our financial institutions, collapse of our financial institutions, our religious institutions, and our social institutions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tom, you'll never know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have quoted Brookings to the point of nausea, you know, as what I believe to be still the reason that we keep this secret.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Certainly, we believe it's certainly still a factor, but the other factor is, as you said, the perpetuation of a lie.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		We think it's those two today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe.
		I'm not sure that religious institutions would crumble.
		I'm sure there'd be some shaking going on, but I don't see them as crumbling, you know, unless the real truth includes some kind of information.
		For example, that telepathically someone was told that they are our makers.
		You know, something of that magnitude could certainly cause a collapse.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, something like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you're not aware of anything like that, are you?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		The only thing that we're aware of is what the one witness was able to convey about what he heard in his head.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that was it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The creature was aware of its fate.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And he was trying to calm, you know, to ease the concern of the person that was out there, the city official.
		And he said, you know, don't worry.
		There's nothing you can do.
		I accept what's happened.
unidentified		Can you name this person?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		He was one of the firemen that was out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One of the firemen?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		His name was Dan Dwyer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he has since passed?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		Yes.
		He was long gone by the time the case became known to investigators.
		So he got the information from his daughter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Tom, hold tight from his daughter.
		Wow.
		Tom Kerry is my guest, and this is Without a Doubt, a Breaking News Night from the High Desert and the Great American Southwest.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		Isn't this fascinating?
		I mean, this news has been out.
		It really has.
		It's in Tom Kerry's book.
		Apparently, that was the first place, and it's really been sitting there since about December or so, but it didn't break.
		I mean, it may have been recited by one person or another and certainly appeared in the book.
		And now all of a sudden, quick.
		It's fascinating the way our press works.
		It really is.
		What a story.
		Tom Kerry is my guest.
		He'll be right back.
		I don't know what's true.
		Maybe it's true that information gets out and somehow it's not recognized for the level of importance that it carries for some time.
		I'm not sure.
		Let me ask you this.
		Scott sent me a message here from Texas, Humble, Texas.
		It says, Art, for the sake of good record, do any medical records exist that show without any doubt that Colonel Hout was not suffering from some sort of senility or any other medical defect caused by old age on the date of 12, 22, 2002 when that affidavit was signed?
		Hello?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		As a matter of fact, he had just had a medical examination, a physical, at that time, and he was in good health.
		So it was at that time they said, let's do a sealed statement now because he's feeling good.
		He just had a physical.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Good health.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		And rather than, you know, because if he was in his 80s when he passed away 2002, he'd be in his late 70s, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		So he said, let's do it now.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		So, you know, there are medical records, I'm sure, but I haven't looked at them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but you are aware of a physical examination, right, at the point or just prior to the point where he did the affidavit.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Can I just say something about, to end the story about the firemen?
		You certainly may.
		There was some, when that story first came out, there was a controversy over whether fire trucks went outside the city limits of Roswell.
		And so about two years ago, I interviewed the sons of the former fire chief, Rue Crisman, was the fire chief.
		He had two sons that I interviewed.
		And what it was, they both said that it wasn't a full-fledged fire wagon that went out.
		It was what they call a tanker, which is basically a pickup with a large tank on the back filled with water.
		And that went out.
		That's what went out.
		Dan Dwyer was the driver, and his co-pilot was a fellow named Lee Reeves.
		Dwyer was dead before we came calling, and Lee Reeves, we've never found, and he's presumed to be dead.
		So a tanker truck went out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've never found, and he is presumed to be dead.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Lee Reeves, yes.
		I looked for it.
		You know, basically, what we have are phone books, the internet phone book, and we have not been able to find a Lee Reeves that used to live in Roswell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if he's still out there, if he's still alive, I'm sure you'd love to hear from him.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		I sure would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so we have actually several three crash sites.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Totally.
		Well, one is what we call a body site.
		It wasn't a case where the craft came down and crashed again.
		It's just that it blew up over Brazzle sheep pasture, perhaps struck with lightning, perhaps a malfunction of some sort.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I was going to additionally ask, is there any possibility, or has it been suggested, Tom, that we may have shot it down?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		We've heard that question asked.
		We have no indication that it was shot down.
		Perhaps it had something to do with there were various locations in New Mexico, which was highly secret at that time, that had radar.
		And the only other thought that could have happened is something malfunctioning because of the radar.
		We don't know.
		It's just speculation.
		But those are the two possibilities.
		We know that there was a tremendous thunder and lightning storm going on that night.
		It's the monsoon season for New Mexico.
		Right.
		Early July.
		And we've seen some of that lightning and thunder, and it's scary.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it is indeed.
		We get it here a little bit later.
		But oh, yes, Roswell gets pounded by incredible lightning storms.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		So speculating along those lines makes as much sense as anything else.
		And of course, the radar is against speculation, but no thought that they were tracking it and opened up on it and shot it down.
		But we don't buy that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You, I take it, are quite familiar, I hope, with Lieutenant Corso's Philip Corso's book and his testimony?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's 10 years ago.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		I know the basics of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I had the fortune to interview Colonel Corso, oh, gosh, I think a total of three or four times, perhaps.
		And he articulated some of the technology that he alleges he passed on from the Roswell crash to American industry.
		You know about all that?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes.
		I guess he worked for a fellow named Trudeau.
		Right.
		And he was given the Roswell file and they back-engineered, re-engineered some items.
		You know, we, Don and I, we don't follow that trail.
		Our mission is to follow the trail leading to whether this event really happened or it didn't happen.
		Something like back engineering and whether things like transistors and Velcro and fiber optics came from the Roswell crash, that's not on our radar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You want to verify the crash itself.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes, the crash recovery, cover-up, that sort of thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you call this affidavit that I read a little while ago?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, smoking gun, holy grail, whatever.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Certainly a smoking gun.
		The holy grail for us is an actual piece of what we call the memory metal.
		This is that metal that's been described by various witnesses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're saying you have a piece?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		No, I say we're looking for a piece.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		That's our holy grail where you can just wat it up in your hand and it feels like you have nothing in your hand and you turn it over and you drop it on a flat surface and it just flattens right out in about a second to the original shape.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now according to the affidavit, there were pieces of that or something passed around virtually hand to hand.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Yes.
		We've spoken to a number of witnesses who have seen and held that sort of material.
		And the reason we call it the holy grail of Roswell is because you don't, if you have a piece of that, you go on camera and you don't have to send it away to be analyzed for isotopic constituents.
		You can just visually see that it's something truly extraordinary, that you don't have to send it out.
		And certainly they had nothing like that in 1947.
		I don't think they have anything like that today, at least from the descriptions that we've heard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In your investigations, Tom, there obviously have been around the world, there have been many crashes and contact stories.
		I wonder if you've gone beyond Roswell.
		I mean, once you believe that this occurred in Roswell, then you have to begin wondering whether it's occurred legitimately elsewhere since.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, Art, until this case is finished, Don works full-time, and so do I. And so we have to focus our attention.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		And until this case is solved, until we're finished with this case, that means either all the witnesses die.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we're getting close to that point, aren't we?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Of the people pictured in the base yearbook from 1947, of the hundreds that we've called, about 90% of them are gone now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		There's about 10% left, and maybe half of those are infirm to the point that we can't interview them.
		So we're talking about a shrinking witness pool that certainly by the next 10th anniversary, the 70th anniversary, there won't be anyone left to interview.
		So we're going to follow this until either the witnesses pass away, we pass away, we find the piece of memory metal, or that day of disclosure comes to a reality, meaning the government comes clean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder if something with the power.
		This affidavit has power.
		There's no question about it.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wouldn't close out the possibility that at some level somebody is considering whether it's time to come clean.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		We've heard from one witness.
		We didn't believe everything he said because we caught him fabricating documents.
		This was after he passed away.
		But he was, we believe he was connected.
		And in his final days, he's told us that the game continues.
		And what is that game?
		He said they're trying to run out the clock.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the clock is running out.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The problem with any witness, of course, once you've caught him in a lie, then all the material is suspect.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		But we knew this gentleman for years, and we're still debating what his role was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And just to be very clear, we're absolutely not talking about Walter Hout here.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
		Absolutely not talking about Walter Hout.
		His story was consistent over the years, but you had to believe he had to know more than just the original press release, just from where he was placed.
		And if you read his body language, his language was, I am keeping a secret, and I'm not going to tell you what it is.
		And rather than lie about it, he would just, when you pressed him, he would just say, oh, that was a long time ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did he ever allude to what he signed?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		No.
		No.
		After we knew he signed it, we just didn't ask him any more questions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're talking about the affidavit now, right?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes, after today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, I meant originally.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did he ever allude to what he might have originally signed in terms of some sort of promise or security document?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
		In fact, we don't believe he did sign one unless it's in.
		I can't remember now if it's in the affidavit or not.
		But the promise to butch Blanchard was enough for him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we all, you know, everybody in the service took an oath.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I guess he was keeping that oath.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes, he was keeping the oath.
		And more importantly, his promise to Blanchard.
		Because they were good friends, and Walter could have followed him to Washington and to maybe a star or two.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did Blanchard ever make any statements?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Very few.
		A few years after this happened, he was attending a function in Roswell, and he spoke to, I believe it was Art McQuiddy, who was the publisher of the, I get confused if he was the publisher of the Roswell Morning Dispatch or he was one of the owners of KSWS, the radio station.
		But McQuiddy asked them, what was that stuff back in 47?
		And all Blanchard said was it was the strangest thing he'd ever seen.
		The strangest thing he'd ever seen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that certainly wouldn't be consistent with a balloon at all.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		And he made some statements at home whenever his family pressed him.
		Dad, what was that?
		What was that?
		His daughter, Dale, mentioned in an article that was published in 1996 that whenever they asked him about Roswell, he would stare off into space and say, the Russians have some amazing things.
		That's all he said.
		The Russians have some amazing things.
		And that was the end of the conversation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not that amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And who, obviously Walter Hout, who would you rate next in importance in terms of the witnesses?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		Certainly Edwin Easley, the provost marshal, who, when Randall interviewed him, I think it was 1989, he just kept repeating, I can't tell you anything.
		I'm still sworn to Secrecy.
		Now, you know, what kind of balloon, you know, it just doesn't hold up that a rubber balloon is something that will cause you to be sworn to secrecy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nor even and what year was that that he said that?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		1989.
		Or even there.
		But later on, we found out that when he was on his deathbed, his granddaughter came in with a copy of Randall and Schmidt's, I don't know if it was their first book or their second book, but it was about Roswell.
		And she said, Granddad, what about this?
		Held up the book in front of him, and he said, oh, the creatures.
		Oh, the creatures.
		And we know from other witnesses that he was out at the crash site.
		They saw him out there.
		In fact, his daughter, who's a lawyer today, was part of the archaeological team, the volunteers digging in 2002 for the sci-fi documentary, the Roswell Crash, Startling New Evidence.
		She was out there.
		She wanted to see where her father had been and if he had done a good job of cleaning up the site.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Apparently so.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Has there been, in all the years, in all the attempts, has there been anything at all found?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any small anything?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Well, in 2002, we had the financial backing of the sci-fi channel, and we had a team of archaeologists, degreed archaeologists from the University of New Mexico leading us.
		And one of the, we did find some things.
		And before I tell you, I just want to say that we dug in an area that, in my opinion, was not prime for finding what we were looking for.
		By that I mean a piece of metal, you know, some of that memory metal or some of the rigid metal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what did you find?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		What we found were a number of small items that the archaeologists couldn't identify.
		They had the appearance of something natural, but they couldn't identify them, and they never could.
		But their final conclusion was, well, they must be something, but we just can't identify them.
		We also found the rubber sole of a military boot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Probably one of those who had been conducting the original search, right?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, Tom, hold tight.
		We're at the top of the hour.
		Tom Kerry is my guest.
		The subject is Roswell, and there certainly is lots of breaking news associated with it.
		When we come back, we're going to open the phone line.
		So those of you that know the numbers and have a question, and I can't imagine you wouldn't have one, you can dial now.
		We'll be right back.
		Here I am.
		My guest is Tom Kerry.
		That's T-H-O-M, by the way, Tom Kerry, C-A-R-E-I.
		His book is Unmasking the 60-Year Cover-Up.
		And it's only out now, a very short time, Amazon.com, all the usual places.
		The affidavit that I read is in the book, as is so very much more about Roswell.
		So if it's in your gray basket, as a friend of ours would say, and you want to pull it out or decide for yourself, this would be your opportunity.
		Pick up that book, do the read, and figure it out for yourself.
		We'll be right back.
		All right, Tom, in a moment, we're going to go to the phones.
		However, who is Major Patrick Saunders?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Major Patrick Saunders was the 509th, the Roswell Base Adjutant to Colonel Blanchard.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		And he died in 1995, but before he died, he bought up a bunch of copies of Randall and Schmidt's second book, The Truth About the UFO Crash at Roswell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		I'm sorry.
		What year was it he died?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		1995.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		95.
		I thought you said 45.
		I'm sorry.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Okay, go ahead.
		1995.
		And in 19, so right before he died, he bought up a bunch of copies of the second Randall and Schmidt book.
		The first page inside the book was a page entitled Damage Control.
		And it told about what the authors believed happened to the records.
		They were vacuumed, serial numbers were changed so that people looking in the future couldn't really track down anybody and records were destroyed.
		Above this heading damage control, which was on the first page inside, Patrick Saunders wrote in hand wrote, here's the truth, and I still haven't told anybody anything.
		Exclamation point.
		This is right before he passed away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		And we thought at the time, well, he just must be talking about the book in general.
		Well, after the key witness in the book imploded, that would be Frank Kaufman, one of the main witnesses in this book.
		We caught him in a number of fabrications.
		We started thinking, well, I did right away.
		I thought, well, geez, what could he have been talking about?
		So I looked at that page again, and the closeness of his handwritten note to the damage control paragraph, I had an epiphany at that point that this is what he was talking about.
		Not the book in general, but what followed in that paragraph?
		Well, which was that he basically had been in charge of covering the trail, covering the paper trail.
		It was already in place at Roswell back in 1947.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There would have been a lot of cleanup, you know, paperwork-wise, people-wise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It would have been a hell of a job.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		But a few months ago, I received an email from Kevin Randall, one of the co-authors of the book, and he had come to, independently, come to the same epiphany.
		And so we compared notes, and we both agreed that that's what Patrick Saunders was talking about, is that he was the one who initiated the vacuuming of the files, the covering the paper trail.
		And if you remember, Art, the Government Accounting Office in 1993 and 1994, when they were looking for a paper trail, they found out that it was inexplicably there was none.
		That's right.
		The papers out of Roswell were inexplicably destroyed without apparent authority.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You recall a congressman looking very, very hard for that information and coming up empty.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Empty.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		And now we know from Patrick Saunders that the vacuuming, the destruction of the paper trail, not that he did it all, but it started with him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Got him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		That's in our book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		And a lot more.
		All right.
		Here we go.
		John in Houston, Texas.
		You're on with Tom.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		I'm proud to be talking with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Enjoy your show all these years.
		And Mr. Carrie, thank you for your work.
		My father was the flight operations officer that night, and he was the flight operations officer on the plane that Mr. Marcel flew out of there.
		And I wondered if you had talked with him.
		I know Mr. Schmidt and Mr. Randall have interviewed him for their other books.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Do you mean Bob Shirky?
unidentified		Yes, that's my dad.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Well, hello.
unidentified		Hi there.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we, you know, we talk to Bob as often as we can.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		I understand he's in a assisted care facility now.
unidentified		That's correct.
		Yes, he's had some health problems, and he's not going to make it to Rossville this year, and he's sad about that, and we're all hoping he gets better.
		But he's a great guy.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Great guy.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		We've talked to him often, and his story is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you what, why don't we ask, since we've got a son on the line, why don't we ask what your dad told you?
unidentified		Well, he didn't talk about it.
		He was like all those other fellows.
		Nobody talked until 1989.
		And all of a sudden, it broke.
		I was watching television one night and saw my dad on TV.
		And I went, my God.
		And I called him and I said, what in the world is this?
		And he laid it out to me and told me he had stood with Colonel Blanchard and watched them load the wreckage and told me what it looked like and said it was nothing none of them had ever seen before.
		And my dad was a pilot.
		He just happened to be the operations officer that night.
		They all traded jobs so everybody would know each other's job, you know.
		And he was a pilot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you remember his exact words when he described what he saw?
unidentified		He just told me he saw pieces of, it looked like metal beams and it had strange writing on it and none of them knew what it was and it wasn't hieroglyphics and it wasn't anything that any of them had ever seen before.
		And Glenn Dennis, the man that sent the caskets to the funeral home, I've known him all my life.
		I was born in Roswell in 1949 and my family, we knew Glenn Dennis.
		He took care of the funerals from my grandparents and a lot of my relatives and Walter Haut lived around the corner from my aunt and uncle.
		And I've known those men all my life and they were just stand-up guys and they didn't all get together in a coffee shop one afternoon to say, hey, let's make a story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I hear you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So when you heard this affidavit of Walter Hout, it rang true to you?
unidentified		Oh, absolutely.
		Absolutely.
		He was a stand-up guy.
		I mean, none of those men, like I said, none of those men were even talking.
		They never talked about this.
		Nobody ever said a word about this until, I guess, Stanton Freeman and those fellas, Mr. Round and Mr. Smith, went out, and they all started looking into it.
		And the dam broke, and then everybody else started coming out with their stories.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there anything your dad told you you haven't made public?
unidentified		He told me pretty much what Walter Hawt had said.
		Walter and my dad were friends, good friends, and Walter had told my dad about the bodies and about what he had seen.
		And my dad told me about that.
		Wow.
		So I've known that since 1989.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your dad was...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your dad was a witness to the same thing that Walter Howitt was?
unidentified		No, he didn't ever say he saw the bodies.
		He just saw the material being loaded onto the B-29.
		But Walter had talked to my dad and told him about the bodies and about the other things.
		There were a lot of people that, you know, they kept it all pretty close to the vest.
		Nobody wanted to get in trouble.
		And they were all very strict military men.
		They lived up to their oath of silence.
		They didn't want to mess it up.
		They were stand-up guys.
		And anybody that will do a little homework, I know I have some friends that think I'm just, you know, they just go, okay, great, you know.
		And I go, okay, well, do a little research.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		They were men of America's greatest generation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I was going to say it's a very different generation we're in now.
unidentified		Well, there's just so many people.
		I have the same name as my father.
		I'm a junior.
		So after this broke, I was getting phone calls from all over the place.
		And I finally just had to get an answering machine.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Is your father in Houston now?
unidentified		No, no, he's on assisted living outside Las Vegas.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		New Mexico or?
unidentified		Oh, Nevada.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Okay, because I tried to find him when I heard that he was in assisted that I called all around.
unidentified		Well, if you'll take me off the air, I'll be glad to give you his number.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Why don't we do this?
		Tom, you want to provide?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you can reach me at T-Carey.
		That's T-C-A-R-E-Y.
		Followed by the numerals 1947 at AOL.com.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you get that call?
unidentified		Yes, I'm writing it down right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's T-Care, T-C-A-R-E-Y, 1947 at AOL.com.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		I've got it.
unidentified		It'll be tomorrow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, okay, fine.
		Let's keep that private.
		John, thank you so very much.
unidentified		Well, thank you for all your work, and you too, Mr. Carey, and keep it up.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		My pleasure.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Nice talking to you.
unidentified		Nice to talk to you, please.
unidentified		Thank you, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		All right.
		To Carol in Claremont, California, you're on with Tom.
unidentified		Well, I'll try my best, sir, but I want to say my jaw is on my chest after what I've been hearing.
		I am so dramatically shocked to be kind of even a fringe player on this evening, I can hardly believe my fortune.
		And I want to thank you all.
		I have in my possession a clip from the 1890s from a newspaper in Michigan where one of my father's grandfather's employees saw a U.S. over a railroad.
		So I've sort of been a lifelong interest person here.
		I want to also give you quick information.
		On my internet, I was able to find out Art McQuiddy.
		You referenced him earlier, and you didn't know if he was the KSWS or KSW.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, apparently it was the dispatch, right?
unidentified		It was a dispatch, yes indeed.
		Yep, indeed.
		But I'm very curious, and I'm puzzled about the heavy-handed tactics that apparently, according to a lot of documentaries I've seen, tactics used verbally, threats, something as melodramatic as actually taking a truncheon.
		Is that the right word?
		Yes.
		And pounding it in a palm and saying, you don't remember any of this.
		This didn't happen.
		You didn't see thus and so.
		What do you know of this?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Well, in our book, we bring out some of the heavy, as you call them, heavy-handed tactics that our Air Force used to silence witnesses.
		One thing that wasn't previously known was that they turned the homes of the ranchers up in Corona upside down and inside out looking for pieces of debris that they thought they had taken from the site.
		They just ripped up floorboards.
		They cut into meal sacks that they used to feed the cattle.
		They just turned that place upside down.
		As far as threatening witnesses, they specialized in threatening the witnesses, civilian witnesses that had seen the bodies.
		And what they would do is they would, if it was, you know, a child and parents, they would take the child into one room and say, we're going to kill your parents.
		And they would take the parents into another room saying, we're going to kill your child.
		Just awful stuff.
		And that shows you how serious this was, that they would threaten civilians with death to keep quiet.
		Now, what they did was that they employed the sheriff of Roswell, George Wilcox, to deliver the message to civilians.
		Not all civilians, but most of the civilians.
		The surviving Wilcox family said that the Roswell incident destroyed him, that he never ran for sheriff again.
		And we suspect that they forced him to deliver these messages to threaten people with their lives that really...
		Oh, yes.
		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By him?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		The Anaya brothers and Pete Anaya's wife recall vividly when Wilcox came around.
		The Anaya brothers had friends of Lieutenant Governor Joseph Little Joe Montoya at the time, and Montoya had seen the bodies in the hangar.
		And it really just shook him up.
		And he had the Anayas pick him up over at the base, and he told them the whole story.
		And a few days later, Sheriff Wilcox came calling.
		And shortly after that, they brought in Senator Dennis Chavez to speak to the Anaya brothers, never to speak about this, or else, as Pete tells it, he said, the FBI will get you.
		So they used Senator Chavez, they used Sheriff Wilcox, they had the majority owner of the radio station KGFL escort Brazil around to the media when they had him change the story.
		So with Walt Whitmore, they threatened him with loss of his FCC license.
		So that's how they got to the civilians, because, as you know, the military has no direct authority over civilians unless it's a time of martial law.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		All right, Greg in Cape Cod, Massachusetts.
		Hi there.
		You're on with Tom Carey.
unidentified		Hi, Art from Tom.
		This is Greg from Cape Cod.
		How are you doing?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Greg.
unidentified		I thought you guys would be interested, and this might be reopened now.
		Do you remember that special they did on either the Discovery Channel or TLC where they had General Ramey holding those papers in his hands right In front of the weather balloon lie, but that guy, I can't recall his name with the computer, you know, enhanced that and blew it up, and we could actually read what was on the screen.
		That's right, yes, that's what was really going on.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that was David Rudiak, did the most work on that.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		And it's a great story because who would have thought that the architect of the Roswell cover-up, General Ramey, would provide one of the keys to unlocking the case because we now have computer programs that can enhance that memo that he was holding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He certainly could not have imagined that then.
unidentified		Exactly.
		That's more proof, Art, and I agree with you that this is the holy grail, this guy's deathbed letter.
		That's just one more piece of the puzzle to confirm it.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		It's hard to refute because we know it's provenance.
		It's not something that you can trace back to a UFO investigator with an agenda.
		It's something held by General Ramey himself.
		And I know when I first looked at it, I got a copy of it and I looked at it and I didn't know what it was going to say.
		I thought it might have something to do with the water condenser at Fort Worth was not working.
		Who knew what it was going to say?
		But the words, victims of the wreck, just jumped right out at me.
		And what sort of weather balloon has victims?
unidentified		I thought that was fascinating.
unidentified		It becomes more fascinating now with this new news.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It certainly does.
		It seems to me, in fact, as just me, but it cinched it for me, Greg.
		What I heard tonight, what I read tonight, just completely cinched it for me.
		That's all there is to it.
		It seems to me it's so cinched that somebody in charge, somebody in power, is going to have to respond to what's been on the air tonight.
unidentified		They have to.
unidentified		There's no doubt about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if they don't, then I don't know what we're to think of our own government.
		And it's time.
		It's time and pastime.
		All right, buddy.
		Thank you very, very much for the call.
		Take care.
		Tom, we're up at a break, so stand by and we'll be back.
		If you have a relevant question for Tom Kerry, who's written a book called Unmasking the 60-Year Cover-Up.
		How timely can it get?
		Come on ahead.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		This is Coast to Coast A.M. And what a ride, huh?
		If programs get bigger than this, I don't know how.
		Tom Kerry is my guest.
		His book is Unmasking the 60-Year Cover-Up.
		We'll be right back.
		All right, Tom.
		Is there anything in the program thus far tonight has been a lot, probably too much from your point of view, that we have not aired that we should?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Oh, could I just make one small correction?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		The full title of the book is Witness to Roswell Unmasking the 60-Year Cover-Up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, it wasn't here.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Witness to Roswell.
		Well, that'll help people in looking it up.
		Witness to Roswell Unmasking the 60-year cover-up.
		That's quite a correction, all right.
		Thank you.
		But aside from that, Tom, anything else that we should be getting on the air tonight that you wanted to get on that we haven't?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		The reason we wrote the book, Art, was to put out most of the, not most, but many new witnesses to the case.
		Everybody knows the original witnesses, but we've been uncovering, prying loose, whatever you want to term it, new witnesses since we teamed up in 1998.
		And we wanted to give them a voice.
		We wanted to tell their story in their own words.
		It's not our interpretation of what they said.
		So that was the purpose in writing the book, to get their stories out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so people can read the witness testimony and decide for themselves.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all the way over to the United Kingdom on the international line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Michelle, you're on with Tom.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
unidentified		This is Oscar Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it isn't.
		And I don't know how that got screened.
		I have no idea how that got screened.
		Diane and Dallas, you're on with Tom.
unidentified		Oh, hi, Tom and Art.
		Art, I just got to tell you, I'm a longtime listener for about 10 years, and I really appreciate you and George and Ian.
		And I wanted to tell you that whenever you received your Lifelong Achievement Award, I downloaded the picture of you three fellas and put you up on my little personal shrine of my greatest, best teachers in the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Diane.
unidentified		I thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, do you have a question for Dom?
unidentified		Well, I do.
		I missed a little bit of the show earlier.
		And whenever you started talking about the preacher, I wanted to ask you if you've been able to get contact with his son who is living in Richardson, Texas.
		And I wanted to ask you if this is the same preacher because I have a son.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tom, do you know who she's talking about?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		I do not know who she's talking about.
unidentified		All righty.
		Well, let me just tell you very quickly.
		I just recently, past couple of years, connected with a high school friend of mine who we were very close and we're still close today.
		And he told me he had a neighbor who was the son of a preacher who was asked to come out and pray over the bodies at Roswell.
		And he told me that his father, he's a minister now himself, and he's in his 60s, and his father has since passed away.
		And really, that's all I know, except that they had told a story about how another rancher or farmer was showing the preacher, I'm not sure about the son being there, but this is a story that he told my dear friend: was that his rancher neighbor had a piece of the material and showed it to him and was willing to give him a piece, except he said he couldn't cut it.
		But they demonstrated how they could farm it into a cone, put fire underneath it and water in the cone.
		And of course, the water was never affected.
		It didn't warm up, heat up, or anything.
		Wow.
		And of course, they just couldn't cut any off at all.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Is he a Roswell preacher?
unidentified		Yes, sir.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		You know, this is interesting because...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, listen, don't do it here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have the email address that we gave out?
unidentified		Yes, I do.
		And I'll do that.
		I'll contact you by email.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		This is interesting, Art, because I was looking for a preacher.
		We got a story of a Roswell preacher, just like she says, that had been called out to pray over the last rites, whatever was required.
		But I never could locate him.
		And I finally gave up when I did locate him.
		He had passed away, and he's buried in Roswell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe you've got a new lead now.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		This appears to be the same lead.
		Not the same preacher.
		But I would certainly love the contact information to follow up on this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guess is it's on the way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		James in Lincoln, Nebraska, you're on with Tom Kerry.
unidentified		Hey, I appreciate that.
		It's been a wonderful story so far.
		My questions for you are about the broader implications of what was happening in 1947 and things like Operation Paperclip with the Nazi scientists coming over, Admiral Byrd's expedition to the South Pole where they had the UFO bases, or the U-boat bases, secret bases.
		Was there a secret war going on at this time?
		And was Roswell kind of at a center of that?
		Based on, well, this was where the bomber wing that dropped the atomic bombs in the end of World War II.
		I'm kind of wondering, with this piece of the puzzle coming in, it's starting to make a lot of those other questions a lot more important.
		Any comments?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not sure about a secret war, but certainly New Mexico was a hub of military activity in 1947.
		We had the White Sands proving grounds west of Roswell, where the captured German V-2 rockets were being tested.
		We had the development of the atomic bomb in New Mexico with the first detonation in 1945 at Trinity site.
		Had Los Alamos there, a number of air bases, and the only atomic bomb strike force in the world was stationed at Roswell.
		So we don't like to speculate, but if I'm flying through the universe and would want to pick a place to visit on Earth in 1947, it might be New Mexico.
		And certainly Operation Paperclip, the captured German scientists, were housed at Fort Bliss in El Paso, Texas at the time, headed up by Werner von Braun.
		And we did get a lead from a woman in Georgia a few years ago.
		She had a college roommate in 1964 whose father was one of the paper-clipped Germans.
		And she told the story that her father told her that he saw the Roswell aliens.
		And this is in 1964 or earlier from the Roswell crash.
		Unfortunately, we've never been able to find the roommate of our source.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's always made sense to me, Tom, that if there are others out there, and I am convinced there are, our detonation of a nuclear weapon above ground would, beyond anything else, it'd be a beacon, all right, saying this civilization has just reached a certain level.
		I don't know how they'd regard that level, but it would be like a beacon in the night.
		And who knows, maybe it brought that visit.
		David in Sherman Oaks, California, you're on the air with Tom Kerry.
unidentified		Hello, Tom.
unidentified		Hello, gentlemen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		How are you?
unidentified		Oh, very, very good.
		I was listening to your story this morning, and I've followed the Roswell Incident for many years, and it seems like the water's really muddy on this case here.
		You get so many different conflicting reports about what they look like, what the craft is, how many craft there were.
		I mean, I've got everything from an E.T. looking like E.T. looking for the one in the movie, E.T., Steven Spilberg, looking like that, all the way from children-like.
		So it's really hard to figure out what's going on.
		But I worked on a stealth fighter F-117A project, if you're familiar with that at all.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Was it the Nighthawk or the F-117, Stealth?
		Yeah, that's correct.
		Yeah, it was built in California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you talking about the bomber or the fighter?
unidentified		The fighter, the fighter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The fighter, 117, okay.
unidentified		The one that has the irregular shaped edges and stuff.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Triangular shaped.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it had irregular shape in order to deflect radar as well as the composite materials.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, go ahead, Collar.
unidentified		Yeah, okay.
		Well, I worked on that project and it was called Have Blue when we first started it.
		As you know, the word blue is connected to UFO investigation and reverse engineering projects.
		So when we were first told that this thing that we're developing is similar to something that was reversed engineered, okay?
		Now, this aircraft was made of all composite materials.
		And outer skin portion, before we put the special paint on it, was made out of a material precisely, exactly what you described is a foil.
		It's a plastic foil.
		You wat it up in your hand.
		As soon as you open it up your hand, it turns completely flat.
		And guess what?
		The military spec, the MLS spec, is this.
		Won't burn, tear, or fuse, which means you can't tear it, you can't burn it, or anything.
		It's incredibly strong and durable.
		And exactly, when I hear this Roswell and says that someone holding something in their hand, they could bend it up and curl it up, and it's precisely like the material we used on F-117A.
		And looking at that, it's just bizarre how much of a coincidence that is.
		And then number two here, I've talked to people, you know, being around the project and stuff, and asked them about UFO stuff because they were talking about UFO reconnaissance and using a stealth fighter actually to get close to UFOs to get pictures of it since, you know, it's a radar absorbent and reflective.
		And they said that we actually have some hybrid beams and some facilities that help with technology.
		And I found it completely bizarre when I first heard that.
		But here, you want the smoking gun on UFOs.
		I really, I know, Bill, he's so passionate about this UFO thing that I'll really give it to you right now.
		The UFO research, basically most UFOs globally, admit, have an orange orb, or to them.
		They're like a glowing orange light.
		They look like a glowing orb, an orb, basically.
		When most people see these devices, most of them will land in wooded areas.
		Now, the government came to this conclusion and said, okay, the first people who's going to be on scene at any UFO, when UFO lands, a lot of the time they're having a problem.
		They just don't land and become visible to people.
		There's something wrong.
		The UFO lands and people see it, there's something wrong with the craft.
		So the government said, okay, who's going to be the first on scene?
		Is it going to be the police officers?
		No.
		It's going to be the fire department.
		Why?
		Because when a UFO lands and it's flickering orange, it looks like a fire.
		People, when they see a flickering orange something in the bushes, they go, oh my God, there's a fire.
		They call the fire department.
		So the fire department is on the scene first.
		So guess what?
		Here's your smoky gut.
		Every single fire department in the United States of America has an instruction manual.
		And guess what's in that manual on one of the pages?
		How to deal with crashed UFOs extraterrestrial craft is inside of every fire department in the United States.
		You can get a photocopy of that.
		Go to any fire department.
		They have it in there.
		What to deal with an extraterrestrial craft.
		Now, if they don't exist, what's that doing in every fire department in the United States?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know the designation of that manual?
unidentified		It's a standard operating procedure manual that every fire department has, and it only has maybe about 300 or 400 pages.
unidentified		And you could look in it, talk to any fireman, go through it, and it will say right there it says how to deal with a craft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, David, we'll take it from there.
		We'll certainly verify that or knock it down.
		But that's very interesting.
		Have you heard that, Tom?
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I've heard the part about the manual.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		I used to know the name, but I can't recall it right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He makes a good point.
		It would be regarded probably as a fire, flickering orange.
		And so they might be the first responders.
		Interesting, that would be in the manual.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I did see that.
		I don't recall what the manual's called.
		I think it has some sort of acronym.
		He is right about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Ed in Allentown, Pennsylvania.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on with Tom Carey.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
		Good morning, Tom.
		My name's Ed.
		We had a fantastic show tonight.
		Thank you for the show.
		A comment, a brief comment, and a question, please.
		I don't know if any, either of you had watched during the 50th anniversary of Roswell on Good Morning America.
		Joan London was interviewing the general who had the press conference for the case closed book.
		He was a many decorate.
		Richard Weaver or decorations on his lapel, a lot of fruit salad.
		And she was interviewing him.
		And he was telling her about how the dummies were found on Roswell and that the locals mistook the dummies for being aliens.
		And, you know, Joan London even looked at him and said, but excuse me, General, the dummies were part of the alleged Project Mogul, which took place in 1954.
		And Roswell was in 1947.
		And with a straight face, this general looked at her and he said, well, you know those old people, they get 1947 and 1954 confused.
		He said this on national television and I taped it at the time.
		A lot of the media was like belittling the people that were celebrating the 50th anniversary.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, of course, yes, they were.
unidentified		I'm going to watch it for it again.
unidentified		Now, my question is, I don't know if you've ever interviewed one of the daughters of one of the firemen that was a guest at the time in the media said that they were rough housed by the MP that were on the board.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Frankie Rowe, yes.
unidentified		Okay, I didn't know her name, but I thought, is she included in your book?
unidentified		Because her story was pretty compelling.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		She's not only included her pictures in there, too, that I took.
unidentified		If you can get a copy of that Good Morning America episode, it was pretty shocking.
		And Joan London got fired shortly afterwards.
		I don't know if it was related, but it was pretty shocking the way it appeared because it was kind of stunted.
		They went to a commercial immediately.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		The notion that you can mix up decades, something that took place in the 1940s with something that took place in the mid-1950s, it Just is laughable on its face because what people do is they remember things by what grade in school they were, what songs were popular, where they lived, and that's how they do it.
		At least that's how I do it.
		And I may mix up a year or part of a year, but not a decade.
		Not a decade.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm with you.
		Songs are used for that, IDing decades.
		David in Mesa, Arizona, you're on with Tom Carey.
unidentified		Pleasure.
		I have a question for Tom, but I want to first say I'm a longtime listener since Richard C. Hoagland told you about what was going on with weather experimentation in Alaska.
		I'm a 30-year veteran of the United States Air Force and here in America.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And I want to ask your guest, Tom, why he thinks that it's taken so long for this to come out that it was a reality, what was first told to the American public in 1947.
unidentified		My father was working for the Philadelphia Naval Yard when the Philadelphia experiment took place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
		Well, it's still not out.
		I mean, it's not out officially.
		Why has it taken so long to begin to break in the way it is tonight?
		I don't have that answer.
		I mean, this information has been out there for a while now.
		It's just one of those things where the media, I don't know what they do.
		They sit on something until some magical switch gets thrown.
		And Tom, you can be proud to have been part of throwing that switch.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Yes, the herd mentality.
		They're looking for someone to go first, I guess.
		As far as the case taking so long is that, you know, investigators, civilian investigators, did not get on the case until 1978.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Tom, you've done, listen, we're at the end of the program, my friend.
		You have done an incredible job.
		This is going to go down as a completely classic program.
		And, Tom, we'll have you back again.
		You can be sure of that.
		Wonderful job.
		And all I can say is keep it up and good luck with the book, but you won't need it.
		It'll sell like hotcakes.
tom carey ▲ ● ▼		Art, it's been my distinct pleasure to be on with you tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care, my friend, and good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And for the rest of you, we'll rest for 24 and see you then.

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