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Nov. 4, 2006 - Art Bell

02:41:52

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Dr. Roger Leir - Abductions Area 51 and Alien Implants

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58:52

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01:13:32

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the Southeast Asian capital city of the Philippines, Manila, I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
		I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, whatever it may be, in whatever time zone you're residing in, every single one of them covered by this program, Coast to Coast A.M. Great to be here, an honor, and a privilege to be escorting you through the Coast weekend.
		And an interesting one it's going to be, just for reference, for those who have not checked, Dr. Roger Lear tonight, Dr. or make that Sir Charles Schultz III tomorrow night.
		So it's going to be a very interesting weekend.
		We will, in a moment, look at the world news, always a depressing thing to do.
		But first, the webcam tonight, if you want to take a look-see, is an interesting one.
		Bob and Sue Crane, the C-Cranes, if you will, came to visit me this last week, or the tail end.
		Actually, they just left this morning and took off for the States, but they were here for a couple of days.
		And we took a couple of trips and had some fun.
		And there's a photograph of myself and Bob and Sue Crane.
		And the one taking the picture, of course, and not in it, is Erin, who is doing okay for those who are asking.
		Morning sickness prevails, but other than that, she is doing just great.
		Myself, on the other hand, well, I'm in the throes of really, really, really quitting smoking.
		And it's rough.
		Boy, I'll tell you what, it's rough.
		It's rough on me.
		It's rough on those around me.
		And maybe it'll be rough on you, too.
		I don't know.
		It really is rough, though, I can tell you that.
		All right, let's look at the world news.
		Actually, in my mood, that'll help.
		Evangelical dismissed amid-sex scandal.
unidentified		Hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Seems like I've seen a story like this before somewhere.
		The Reverend Ted Haggard was dismissed Saturday.
		Dismissed, mind you, as leader of the mega-church he founded after a board determined the influential evangelist had committed, quote, sexually immoral conduct, end quote, church said Saturday.
		Haggard had resigned two days earlier on his own as president of the National Association of Evangelicals, where he held sway in Washington and condemned homosexuality after a Denver man named Mike Jones claimed to have had drug-fueled trysts with him.
		He also had placed himself on administrative leave from the New Life Church, but its overseer board took the stronger action on Saturday.
		What is it with these religious folks?
		Particularly the evangelicals.
		What is it?
		Is it the I don't know.
		I just want to know.
		On the one hand, they preach hellfire and brimstone for this kind of thing.
		It's the exact thing they end up doing.
unidentified		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I really don't know, but it's been one after another after another.
		Iraq.
		Iraq's prime minister on Saturday urged his countrymen to accept the impending verdict against Saddam Hussein without violence.
		Then, in the very next breath, declared the former dictator must, quote, get what he deserves, end quote, with a decision that could send him to the gallows.
		The highly partisan Shiite Muslim prime minister who was forced into years of exile during Saddam's Sunni-dominated rule, imposed an open-ended curfew on Baghdad and two nearby provinces as well, closed the international airport until further notice.
		Pretty serious stuff.
		President Bush stresses taxes and values in Colorado.
		The president encouraged voters to select candidates who will lower taxes and defend traditional values.
		As he kicked off the final campaign weekend in a state where gay marriage dominates the political debate, Colorado voters face a pair of choices Tuesday that are going to affect the rights of gay couples.
		The issue took on a new intensity last week with the allegations that a prominent Chicago Springs minister who criticized gay marriage secretly paid for sex with a man for years.
		Go again.
		Long locked out of power, the Democrats now appear poised to win control of the House, possibly the Senate, in midterm elections this week amid a national clamor for change after four years of war now in Iraq.
		Democrats are also on track to replace Republican governors in several states, for example, New York, Ohio, and Massachusetts.
		Among them, Republican Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger seems safely on his way to a first term, full first term, that is, in California, the most populous state.
		It really is odd in a lot of ways.
		I said this last week, and I'm going to say it again.
		I was not a Bush supporter way back when.
		But, boy, I'll tell you, say one negative thing about President Bush, and the world would come and fall in on your head.
		Remember that?
		Remember those days, the good Bush days, when President Bush was high in the polls and everybody was high on Bush?
		And now the tables have turned.
		And the fact of the matter is, after watching President Bush in office for all these years, I think, well, he's been pretty much okay.
unidentified		And everybody else hates him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		Same deal with the Iraq War.
		I was just really against the Iraq War Before we went in, for those of you who go back with the show that far and recall.
		But my opinion now, rough as the going is, is that we're there and we cannot afford to lose.
		That's my opinion.
		I'm always on the other side of the coin from what seems to be the majority.
		The bodies of three more victims of an arson fire at a casino district hotel were recovered Saturday, bringing the death toll now to nine, according to fire officials.
		They say they were pulled out of the north end of the 84-year-old Ms. Paul Hotel.
		By the way, that was allegedly a haunted hotel, the part most heavily damaged in Tuesday's fire because of roof collapses.
		So I'm so sorry to hear about that in Nevada up in the Reno area.
		A liberal blogger who was manhandled by supporters of Senator George Allen this week, was handcuffed by authorities, escaped from another rally Saturday after an Allen backer claimed the man pushed him to the ground.
		Mike Stark told the Associated Press that sheriff's deputies detained and then released him.
		He was not charged.
		Oh, look at this.
		Kansas Abortion MD wants O'Reilly probe.
		An abortion doctor plans to ask for an investigation of the state attorney general and Bill O'Reilly over comments by the Fox television host that he got information from Kansas Abortion Records.
		The doctor's attorneys said on Saturday that Dr. George Tiller, that is, said he will ask the Kansas Supreme Court on Monday to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate and take possession of the records from 90 patients at two separate clinics.
		Listen to this.
		Group that claims marijuana use is safer than drinking ran some newspaper ads Saturday mentioning allegations that President Bush once drunkenly challenged his father to a fight.
		No kidding.
		And Vice President Dick Cheney's accidental shooting of a friend all after drinking.
		Safer Colorado, which put a measure on the Colorado ballot to legalize possession of marijuana, placed an ad in a newspaper in Greenlee where Bush made an appearance on Saturday.
		So it really does look as though the Democrats are probably going to take control of most everything non-presidential.
		We'll just have to wait and see.
		But all the polling looks that way.
		And even Fox, which is generally tilted toward the right, seems to be acknowledging that that's certainly going to occur.
		All right, that's what the world looks like today.
		Never all that great.
		In a moment, we'll explore a couple of other topics.
		Stay right where you are.
		I am going to be perusing the phone lines very early, so those of you who know the numbers, don't need them read off to you and would like to get on the air and have something reasonably important to say, feel free to begin dialing now.
		Two federal agencies are investigating whether the Bush administration tried to block government scientists from speaking freely about global warming and censor their research.
		So here it comes an investigation.
		Senator Frank Lautenberg, a Democrat from New Jersey, said he was informed that the inspectors general for the Commerce Department and NASA, and NASA, had begun coordinated sweeping investigations of the Bush administration's censorship and suppression of federal research into global warming.
		These investigations are critical because the Republicans in Congress have ignored this serious problem, said Lautenberg.
		He said the investigations, quote, will uncover internal documents and agency correspondence that may expose widespread misconduct, end quote.
		He added, quote, taxpayers do not fund scientific research, so the White House can alter it, end quote.
		Messages left Wednesday at the offices of the Inspector General, which serve as the agency's internal watchdogs, were not immediately returned.
		Christian Helmer, a spokeswoman for the White House Council for Environmental Quality, said Wednesday night, the administration has supported the scientific process in its approach to studying climate change.
		Really?
		Quote, we have in place the most transparent system of science reporting, and claims that the administration interfered with scientists are false, said Hilmer.
		Our focus is on taking action and making real progress in reducing greenhouse gas emissions.
		Sorry, shouldn't be chuckling.
		The refrigerator is used to, you know what it does.
		All of our refrigerators do the same thing.
		They lengthen the life of your food.
		Well, there is a new study out there suggesting an exactly similar principle may lengthen your life too.
		Researchers have found that lowering the body temperature of mice by just 0.5 degrees Celsius extends their lifespan by all around 15%.
		Holy mackerel.
		In the future, people might be able to take a drug to achieve a similar effect on body temperature and enjoy a longer life.
		The only previously proven method of significantly increasing the lifespan of an animal has been through a restricted caloric diet.
		Bruno Conte at Scripps Research Institute in La Jolla, California, and colleagues designed genetically engineered mice with a specific brain cell defect in a region called the lateral hypothalamus.
		This defect currently forces brain cells into overdrive, causing the region to heat up and become warmer than in a normal mouse.
		The average body temperature of the genetically engineered mice was, therefore, about 0.6 degrees Celsius lower than that of their control counterparts.
		Even this small decrease in body temperature appeared to have a noticeable effect on lifespan, extending lives by 12 to 20%.
		That's really serious.
		And the decrease in body temperature extended the lifespan of female mice more than male mice.
		Although nobody knows why.
unidentified		Hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's see.
		Females are generally thought to live longer anyway in any species.
		Isn't that true?
		And beyond that, perhaps we are like incodescent light bulbs.
		Maybe we're just like that, where we have sort of a little filament, and the brighter it burns, the faster it burns.
		I have no idea.
		But it is fascinating that lowering the body temperature of mice appears to cause them to live longer.
		So they should do more research into that.
		Of course, you know, as with most science, there could conceivably be a downside to all of this, and they might lower our body temperatures through some sort of genetic change and then find out that one arm gets shorter than the other down the line somewhere, something like that.
		But science is an amazing thing, and one day it probably will stumble into, well, really meaningful life extension.
		I just read a book about that called Altered Carbon, which was very, very good.
		It suggested that minds, our minds, our brains, could be kind of like a computer.
		There would be a little hard drive at the base of your brain recording everything up until the moment that you were killed.
		And once you were killed, somebody would simply retrieve this little thing, and then you would be downloaded into a new body, or in that book, it was called a sleeve, but a new body.
		Essentially, all your thoughts, everything you are, your id, your soul, all the rest of it, downloaded into a brand new body, and away you go.
		Fascinating concept, and one never knows.
		All right, let's begin seeing who's out there and what's up.
		We are very close to the election, so if you have any comments on all of that and how you think it's going to go, I think it would be appropriate to hear from you.
		And the fickle American public, you might want to comment on that too.
		It's been something that really I've been sort of sitting back and, I don't know, just observing.
		While I wasn't certainly wild about the president, and I'm still not really wild about him, I wasn't wild about him prior to his election, I guess I sort of learned to live with him.
		He certainly went through a lot, 9-11 on his watch, right?
		That's got to be a rough one for any president.
		And then the Iraq War and a whole lot more that's occurred while he's been, and all in all, you know, I kind of think he's done reasonably well.
		While everybody else, back in the beginning, I was not for him, as you know, I didn't vote for President Bush.
		And oh, I caught hell over that.
		I'll tell you, millions of emails.
		You what?
		You did what?
		I really caught it over that.
		And now I'm catching it over the other side, you know, that I've been saying that, well, he's not all that bad, really.
		Hasn't been all that bad.
		So I'm catching it over that.
		I seem to be on the opposite tide of whatever is going on at the moment.
		All right, to the phones.
		Let's see what's going on.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		This is Art.
		This is Art.
		60 years ago, I was in Manila.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		60 years ago, huh?
unidentified		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And I have in my possession a photograph of probably 100 and some years old of Manila, which is a panoramic view of the entire town.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Needless to say, sir, I think it's probably changed a little.
unidentified		I would be delighted to send you a copy of it if I had a mailing address.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can send it to Premier Radio Networks, and they're available.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, if you go on the web and put in Premier Radio, it'll give the address.
unidentified		Premier Radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it'll eventually get to me, yes.
unidentified		Well, is that in Havana?
unidentified		I mean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are those who have suggested that may be so.
unidentified		No, Premier is not in Manila.
unidentified		Well, I'm confused now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, they're in California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you go to the web and put in Premier Radio Networks, it will give you their address.
unidentified		And I will send this thing to you then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sherman Oaks, actually.
unidentified		We could discuss at length about the Philippines from there to Iloilo, but we'll leave that for some other time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or you could send it to Havana and see what happens.
unidentified		Thank you, sir.
		It's a joy listening to you, and I will get this in the mail to Premier.
		Let me see if I got it right.
		Do I have it right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Premier Radio Networks.
unidentified		Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		You don't have an address for them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not.
		You can just grab it on Google.
		It'll be right there.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Thank you.
		Oh, maybe I don't need a cigarette.
		All right, let's see.
		East of the Rockies, you're on air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, John.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		This is Don, KG4 VME.
unidentified		I'm in Covid City.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You really don't want to give your whole call letters there.
		It'll identify you.
		But welcome.
unidentified		Yeah.
		You know, I had an entire spiel here for you, and then the Cuba thing came up.
		And, you know, I've corresponded with Arnie Coro.
		You know, it takes a year to get a reply through the Republic down there, but you will get one.
		I'll call to offer a word of support for your tobacco situation.
		I was at the supermarket when I happened Upon an elderly gentleman there in front of the meat counter.
		He had a loaf of bread and a little package of ham and an oxygen bottle in his cart, and he had locked into position and appeared that he would not make it to the checkout.
		And this clicked something in my brain just like a switch.
		And I decided on that spot that I would not go through this with myself and my children.
		And I decided to go to the market.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's not to say, sir, that, look, I know it sounds very dire what you're saying.
		And it is dire, but not everybody, to be fair, does go through that.
		It's not inevitable.
unidentified		Oh, yes, I'm aware.
		But I decided I would cut my losses.
		And I budgeted my package of cigarettes out over the weekend there until Sunday night.
		I held one back so that I would have one for the end of the barbecue there.
		And on Monday, the new leaf would fall, you see.
		So I go to retrieve this cigarette, and I arrive, much to my dismay, and find out that Sally, my wife, has smoked my last cigarette.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then, that's a message to you, buddy.
		She did it.
		Your cigarette was gone.
		Hopefully, from that point, you did not resume.
		We'll take a break and be right back.
		This is Coast to Coast AMI Mart Bell.
		Yes, indeed.
		Here I am.
		It should be a very, very interesting week in the U.S. elections.
		I mean, that's really going to be something.
		And I'm looking for what some of you think is going to happen, how really big the Democrats' victory is going to be.
		Now, I think about all, realistically, that's all that remains other than the fat lady singing, screaming, whatever it is she does after an election of this sort.
		But there's going to be a victory.
		It's just a matter of what size.
		Now, the various polls tell different stories.
		The only meaningful poll, as we all know, is the one coming up quite shortly here.
		Let's go to the wildcard line and Cliff in Houston, Texas.
		Hey there.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		How's everything, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's quite well.
unidentified		I'm sure it's doing well.
		But what I'd like to talk to tonight, I was watching Bill Maher show, and he had a guest on that produced a movie called Iraq for Sale.
		This was absolutely horrible.
		It really was.
		It gave some details, for example, servicemen paying $45 for a six-pack of Coke.
		And it went on and on and on about these horrendous profiteering.
		You know that the people that do the interrogation at Abu Gray, which I never knew, I thought they were our people, you know, soldiers or CIA or something, but they're not.
		It's a private company.
		The CEO of that company last year made $100 million.
		I mean, that's just insane.
		My wife's sister's son, he goes over there in a private capacity with a dog and like a guard dog.
		And what they do is they walk around the barracks.
		Well, he walks around the barracks with another Marine with his dog, and they pay this kid $120,000 for six months.
		There is no telling how much his boss is making.
		I mean, this war is just, I mean, it's just ludicrous.
		And that's why I've always been not a fine-line Republican, but I've always been that.
		But I just hope the Democrats win this time.
		I mean, God will know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I think there's no question about it.
		Well, there's no question about it.
		The only question is by how much?
unidentified		Well, I hope it's a decent amount.
		I really do, because I firmly feel here's my little prediction for all it's worth.
		In 08, Hillary will win.
		Her husband will become president of the United Nations.
		Within four or five years, we'll be a socialist country.
		And within another four or five, we'll be a complete fascist country.
		That'll be it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Socialism to fascism, really.
unidentified		Well, that's what this new world order is really all about.
		is about corporations controlling the world, not the people.
		You know, George Bruce makes...
		Corporations, definitely.
		Because these politicians, you know, when you say lobbyist and you say, well, politicians are influenced by lobbyists, define influenced.
		That's the key word.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Define influence.
unidentified		Money, money, money.
		So the only way I feel America would stand a chance, I mean, really, really, and this I think is a great idea, if we paid politicians from city to state to president, pay them a million dollars a year salary, and if you catch them, have a civilian police force that governs over these politicians, catch them taking one red cent extra, they spend the rest of their life in prison.
		You have to take the profit out of being politicians, or they're never going to do it.
		I mean, we're run by a complete oligarchy in this country.
		If you don't have a few hundred million, you can't get elected to anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that certainly is increasingly becoming true.
		And I think, gee, a couple of years ago, a few years ago, I heard the average to run for the Senate was around $20 million.
		Now, that may be a bargain by today's standards.
		I don't know.
		But it's a lot of money.
		And certainly to get into that kind of office, you have to make a number of compromises.
		And you probably have to make some promises that you otherwise would not have made.
		And I don't know how you get in without lying.
		I don't know how you get to any high political office without lying.
		Is it possible to get to a high political office, become President of the United States, Senator, even Congressman, without lying?
		I think not.
		Without severe compromise of what you thought your principles were.
		I think not.
		So there's a certain validity to what that man is saying.
		Now, I don't think we're headed For corporations running everything, I don't think that's our future.
		I think that democracy is pretty firmly in place in the United States, and I don't think that people would stand for that.
		Some would say, What are you talking about?
		It's already happening.
		The secret government and all that, right?
		All right, let's go to the first-time color line, and Lisa from New York City.
		Hi, Lisa.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		I wanted to tell you about the other night I was listening to Ghost to Ghost.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		Something remarkable happened.
		I was trying to get through to tell, I believe there was another caller where he lost his wife on a motorcycle accident, and then he was saying how sorry he is that you lost yours.
		Well, I also had lost my husband in a car accident, and I was trying to get through because I communicate with him and also my niece frequently, every day.
		And all I have to do is just ask them, and I was trying to call you, and I asked them to help me do that.
		I especially asked my niece.
		One of the last callers you had on was a guy from California.
		He was on I-40, and he was holding on to a girl that was in a car accident, and help came to him.
		Do you remember that story?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Well, that was my niece.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
		Oh, my goodness.
		That must have been something.
unidentified		It was unbelievable, only because I asked them to communicate, to get me through to you, but she came instead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you sure can't beat that.
		And sometimes this program provides that kind of coincidence, if you will.
		I guess you would call it.
		Or there are none.
		I don't know.
		First-time caller line?
		No, let's make that the wildcard line.
		John in Long Island.
		A lot of New York tonight.
		You're on the air.
		No, I have not properly pressed the right button.
		Let me try it again.
unidentified		Let's see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why can I not get to John in Long Island?
		For some reason, I cannot.
		Let's try David in North Hollywood.
		See if we can do that.
		David in...
		Hi, Jeff.
unidentified		Hey, thank you for taking my call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
unidentified		Yep.
unidentified		I got a chance to vote early because I'm an election judge for Election Day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And I got to use the new voting machines in St. Louis County.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And it was really easy.
unidentified		I don't see how what people are talking about possible fraud because they have a little print, like a receipt that prints out to the side that shows your votes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'm aware of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You get a paper.
unidentified		Yeah, it prints off to the side.
unidentified		So you can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, people are distrustful of anything that is computerized.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's just that simple.
unidentified		Yeah, are you voting?
unidentified		I take your voting absentee.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You vote through the set it up through the embassy here.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah, it's kind of, yeah, I did notice that you weren't too fond of the administration, and now that everyone is against it, you're not exactly for it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm just don't.
		You know, there are really people who hate this president.
		I mean, I have watched it go from this man can do no wrong.
		This man is the savior of the country.
		Say one negative word about him, and I was not for him originally.
		And they slam you.
		And now it's gone 180 degrees.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		I suppose you heard about Carrie's foot in the mouth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		A lot of people are saying that pretty much hurt his chance for a late.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, hurt whose chance for what?
unidentified		Carrie's.
unidentified		People were speculating he may run again, but that comment may have hurt his chances.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I would say the bigger question would be, did it hurt the Democrats in general?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, this was virtually on election eve, right?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe that would be the bigger question, whether or not he runs, who knows?
		But did it hurt the Democrats' chances?
		And I think the answer seems to be, if you look at the polling, no.
unidentified		Yeah, everything is dead heat, even here in Missouri.
unidentified		They're saying Missouri is the closest, probably the closest Senate race in this election.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it sure is going to be fascinating to see what happens.
unidentified		Oh, yeah, definitely.
unidentified		Thank you for taking my call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, buddy.
		Take care.
		Yeah, absolutely fascinating.
		America takes some pretty big swings, doesn't it?
		Again, going back to the original Bush victory, I was not a supporter of President Bush's, but, you know, all things considered, and what he's gone through in this presidency, I think he's done a fairly credible job.
		Well, now everybody hates him.
		It's just hard to figure.
		It really is hard to figure.
		East of the Rockies, that would be Marvin in Missouri.
		You're on the air.
unidentified		Good evening, Art.
		Pleasure to talk to you as always.
		I was wondering when the government was going after you in the desert.
		Was it Bush administration then or Clinton?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are you talking about?
unidentified		You were off the air for a couple of years because...
unidentified		Oh, I thought it did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, Marvin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not a thing.
unidentified		Well, one question I do have is if Saddam Hussein is found not guilty by that, Marvin.
unidentified		Let's just say it does happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's say it happened.
unidentified		Yeah, and he would become dictator again of the market.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think even if he was, as unlikely as it would be, found not guilty, I don't think that You automatically get to go back and be dictator again.
		That just isn't how it works in his case.
		Although I wonder what would happen.
unidentified		Hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It might be kind of an interesting strategy.
		Instead of finding him guilty and having him hung by the neck until dead, which is, I think, what they might have in mind for him, just bang the gavel.
		Doesn't sound much like a gavel, does it?
		It's just a pen.
		Best I can do.
		And say not guilty, you're free to go, sir.
		Now, I suppose we could lay bets on how many steps he would be able to take outside the courthouse, but my estimation is that he would be dead faster than if they find him guilty and decide to hang him.
		Much faster.
		It also would cut down on the appeals time.
		So there you go.
		Not guilty.
		You're free to go, sir.
		Can you imagine?
		Can you imagine?
		First time caller line, Russ in Santa Barbara, California.
		Beautiful city.
		You're on the air.
unidentified		Thanks.
		Yeah, I can tell you one thing that's going to happen.
		It looks pretty clear if the Republicans lose the House, and that is that America is basically going to lose its borders in short order.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you think that any border protection that had been planned would be then blocked?
unidentified		Well, it's a little more complicated than that.
		The Senate voted for a plan to grant amnesty to somewhere between 11 and 20-odd million illegal aliens in the United States and also pass a so-called guest worker program, which amounts to not having borders.
		The Heritage Foundation estimated that it would bring in something like 200 million, up to 200 million new people in just a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's probably an exaggeration.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, we're at, what, 300 million population now, something like that?
unidentified		Yeah, but I guess, actually, I don't think it is.
		If you consider that the world is now approaching, it's almost 7 billion people now, and a minimum of 5 billion of them live in squalor in conditions where they'd be, you're looking at about 5 billion people on the earth at least that would be way better off living in the United States than where they live now.
		The reason why they don't come here now is because it's still technically illegal.
		We still technically have limits on immigration.
		And if you're coming from, let's say, Asia or Africa, from overseas, first of all, it's a lot more expensive to get here than it is to get here from Mexico.
		And secondly, if you do get caught and you get put back, you can't just walk over the border again.
		You may have spent your entire life savings, your family's life savings, to get here.
		So you can't take that kind of risk.
		The guest worker program that's envisioned by the Bush administration basically changes the entire equation.
		You can come here legally and stay for like nine years and then be automatically put on a path to citizenship.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What really gets me, sir, is this amnesty program.
		All my adult life, we've had these cycles where illegals come pouring across the border.
		If they spend X number of years here and don't get caught, then they're offered amnesty to be able to become a citizen, which we do it again and again and again.
		And every time we do it, we say, this is going to be the last time.
		And then we generally pass legislation putting penalties on employers who hire illegals.
		And it just keeps happening again and again and again and again.
		And if that's not something saying, look, break the law and get away with it.
		And if you don't get caught, the prize is citizenship.
		If that's not the most insane thing I've ever heard in my whole life.
unidentified		Yeah, I know.
unidentified		But it's, you know, the few million a year of illegal, you know, virtually all population growth in the United States is due to immigration, mostly illegal immigration.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and we must have some of it.
		Some of it really is important.
		I mean, the area you're in, Santa Barbara, and the surrounding areas make a great deal of use, not Santa Barbara per se so much, but areas around you in Central California sure make a lot of use of that labor.
unidentified		Well, they do.
unidentified		The employers are willing to break the law, subvert our border, subvert our immigration laws, all so that they can pay, you know, $2 or $3 an hour or less to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's all being done with a wink and a nod.
		Look, the people seeking immigration reform, I'm really on board with them.
		I really think if we have borders, they ought to be what they say they are, and they ought to be borders in this ridiculous amnesty program.
		I mean, come on.
		It's absolutely against every principle that we stand for.
		It's saying if you break the law for long enough, and if you get away with it, and if you're smart enough not to get caught, now be sure and document the fact that you were here breaking the law.
		Otherwise, you can't be part of this.
		That's part of it.
		They have to actually document the fact that they were here breaking the law, getting away with it for X number of years.
		And if they can document the fact that they successfully broke the law, that they lived here, or lived here, lived in America for all those years, whatever number of years are involved, and they can produce things like, oh, I don't know, rent receipts, even tax receipts, whatever it is it takes, saying, yes, I lived here for those years and I broke the law, proudly got away with it, then you're entitled to citizenship.
		And then we always say, but this will be the last time we're ever going to do this.
		And of course, it isn't.
		We just keep doing it and doing it.
		It's absolute insanity.
		Just insanity.
		First wildcard line, rather, in New York again.
		Forrest, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, good morning, evening, wherever it may be.
		I called to say that I'm happy to hear that you support Bush a little more now.
		When I first started listening to this show, I could I mean it's compared to the standards of what my grandparents is very liberal and they would probably freak out if they knew how to even listen to it.
		But that's not the point.
		The point is that I don't think the Democrats are going to win by a large majority.
		I think that I don't even know that they'll actually win.
		If you look at polls in the past, they strongly favored the Democrats, the Kerry election.
		And if you look at a county-by-county vote of the last election, the rural areas are strongly read.
		And I just don't, I think that there's a lot of spin in the media and different things, and I think we owe it to all our families, our children, and everybody to keep an open mind and to look at things, you know, to find out what really is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, my mind is open, but poll after poll after poll are.
		And, you know, the likelihood is that it is going to go that way.
		Traditionally, it has gone that way in this part of the election cycle.
		So I wouldn't doubt it.
		The question is, by how much?
		Now, it's interesting to note that the stock market seems to love the concept.
		You know, you've got the Democrats who conceivably might be in control of Congress and the Senate.
		The stock market seems to love it.
		We're going to record highs.
unidentified		Okay, I see that.
		I noticed that that happens.
		But a previous caller was using saying about corporate America and da-da-da-da-da.
		So the two arguments conflict each other, that the Republicans want corporations to, but then when the Democrats get in power, the corporations, the stuff which the stock market's built on, go up.
		See, everything is in such a spin.
		Everybody has their slant that is so strong that to find out what really is going on, you have to be very careful.
		And I think that people, we have all Americans have a common thread.
		It's our heart.
		It's the way, you know, like for immigration, for example, people, you know, we know that we need immigrants.
		A lot of us have Spanish people that are our friends that we love and care about that are illegal immigrants.
		But we have a common thread of responsibility that we need to, you know, enforce this kind of stuff.
		And I think that conservatism, conservative natures are going to, you know, it's the way it has to be now for this country.
		That's all.
		Happy living in the Philippines.
		I have a Filipino girlfriend, and I enjoy her very much and love her and can't wait to visit there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, congratulations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, fire me an email or something if you're headed this way, all right?
unidentified		I will do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I try and meet with those who get over here if I have the time.
		There are quite a few, surprising number of people, actually, who head to Southeast Asia and the Philippines for one reason or another.
		All right, when we get back, Dr. Roger Lear, who has operated for years and removed not countless, because we can actually count the number of implants that he's removed.
		I'm Art Bell.
		Well, you are, and it's great to be here, sort of guiding you through the weekend.
		Coming up in a moment is Dr. Roger Lear.
		Now, I've known Dr. Lear for years.
		He wrote a book, this was some time ago now, called The Alien and the Scalpel.
		And that's because that's what he does.
		He is said to be one of the world's most important leaders in physical evidence research involving the field of ufology.
		Now, if ufology can use anything, it certainly is physical evidence.
		He and his surgical team have performed nine surgeries now on alleged alien abductees.
		This has resulted in the removal of 10 separate and distinct objects suspected of being alien implants.
		These objects have been scientifically investigated, and some of the most prestigious laboratories in the world have found all of it rather baffling.
		In fact, some comparisons have been made to meteorite samples.
		Now, that's very interesting because if you would imagine anything taken from the body of a human being to have an alien origin, then it would come back and look like things that we find from meteorites would make all the sense in the world.
		And the odds of it coming back that way would be almost impossible, wouldn't they?
		You take it out of a human being and the origin is, well, like that of a meteorite.
		What are the odds?
		Dr. Lear anticipates performing more surgeries in the future and will investigate the physiological and biological aspects of the abduction phenomenon.
		He's also formed a nonprofit organization for that specific purpose called ANS Research Inc.
		Now, there's a little typo there, so I hope that's correct.
		He really is quite a guy, the only one doing, as far as I know, what he does.
		In a moment, Dr. Lear.
unidentified		Dr. Lear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Roger Lear, welcome back to the program.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Good to be with you again, Art, all the way from the Philippines.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, indeed.
		Let's see, when did we do our last program?
		It's been a while, hasn't it?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Oh, gosh, it has.
		Yes, I've done, I think, a couple with George in your absence.
		But you were so kind to me to make the wonderful statement that you did about the Brazil case when I wrote the book, UFO Crash in Brazil.
unidentified		Yes.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Published on the back of the book.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		A lot of good comments on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, good.
		Good.
		Through all this, are you still actively practicing medicine?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Unfortunately, yes.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		I have a daughter that's 15, so we have to continue to crank in the bucks so I can pay for her times now and in the future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so you spend, is it like a five-day-a-week deal for you or more?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday, off on Wednesday and weekends, but the mere fact of being off doesn't really mean much because between the research, implant surgeries, other investigations in the UFO field, and an occasional time spent trying to restore an old 1948 Dodge, I keep pretty busy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a lot on anybody's platter.
		And so it's a wonder that you find any time at all to do research in.
		In fact, I'd kind of be interested.
		Remind me, if we never talked about this, what in the world got you started in ufology?
		After all, you're a podiatrist, right?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it's a long, long way from the foot to, you know, the object in the sky or the implant in the ear.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		A long way to tipperary, exactly.
		Most of my things in my life have been sort of one synchronicity upon the other.
		Years ago when I was quite young, maybe 11 or 12, I have a distinct recollection of my father bringing the San Francisco Examiner into the kitchen and reading the headline to my mother that said, U.S. Army Air Force captures flying saucer.
		And then he went on a long dissertation about how, see, I told you, you know, we can't be the only intelligent living beings in this vast universe.
		And I stood there listening to it.
		Now, how do I remember it was the San Francisco Examiner?
		Well, quite simple, because it was the only paper that he ever took, and I loved the comics.
		So that's how.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, that was some headline.
		Say it again.
		U.S. Army?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		U.S. Army Air Force Captures Flying Saucer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that stood for how long until it became sort of a little piece of aluminum?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was only about a day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Still, that must have been some one day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, for one day, the major papers across the United States virtually said that we had a spaceship.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Right.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Not only in the United States, but around the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Around the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I wonder what that day was like when people genuinely, for at least one day, thought we had captured an alien craft.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can just imagine.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		It wasn't a little back page article.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, no, no.
		It was front-page stuff.
		So what was it like?
		Can you recall it all?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Well, there was a lot of silence.
		I mean, I remember the adults talking about it.
		It was a major thing in lives at that time.
		1947 was kind of a strange time because we had come out of the war.
		The war machine was cranking down.
		You still couldn't get tires.
		There was still ration stickers on the windshield.
		You had to go to a special place even to get the kind of meat that you wanted to.
		So the society wasn't anywhere near like it was now.
		So people were, I believe, in a state of shock.
		But he was a very, my father was a businessman.
		He was a very simple person.
		And he had a very simple way of thinking.
		In other words, if you were a plumber, then everything that there was to know about plumbing, you better know.
		So when the next headline came in that it wasn't a saucer, but it was a balloon, oh, he was just really bent out of shape.
		He said, you mean to say, and I remember this too, he told my mother, do you mean to say that the U.S. Army Air Force can't tell the difference between a saucer and a balloon?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Same thing they say today when we talk about that subject.
unidentified		Exactly.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		But he put it in very simple terms.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		But for one day, the world thought that we actually had that.
		And it sure would be fun to go back and, I don't know, get some kind of take on what people were talking about and what they thought.
		And whether they were thinking, gee, is this the beginning of an invasion?
		Are we about to have another war?
		Or just exactly what people thought.
		It would be interesting to know.
		If that happened today, can you imagine if that occurred today?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Oh, gosh, I don't know what to say.
		If it happened today, you know, I usually, when I give my presentations about the world, I get asked a lot, well, you think if this happened today, Dr. Lear, you know, that people would go run and hide in the hills?
		I usually say, well, you know, if it happened in Los Angeles on rush hour, let's say a big giant, three football-sized craft landed on the middle of the freeway in the rush hour, would there be a panic?
		And I say, well, yeah, there'd be a panic.
		People would be on their cell phones calling Caltrans to get it moved so they could get home.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's probably exactly right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People in LA would just be bent out of shape at the traffic situation.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		That would be the extent of the panic.
		I mean, when you drive down the street and you see bumper stickers of gray aliens on the back of the bumpers, and the kids are running around wearing t-shirts with the typical gray face on it, and the history channel and the sci-fi channel and Discovery Channel and all the rest of them are continuously broadcasting things about UFOs and UFO documentaries and
		all sub-subjects of the field day in and day out.
		And then you talk to the kids, you know, like my daughter, who has really no particular interest in this subject, but because she looks at it like, hey, the grass is growing on the lawn.
		I mean, what's the big deal?
		Oh, well, of course, you know, we can't be the only, you know, living, intelligent creatures in this universe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Perhaps the next generation doctor really would take it well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, just hardly even blinking.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		I'm sure they will.
		It's a long cry from Marson Wells.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you've chosen to enter a particularly controversial aspect of ecology, and that is there are people who believe that they have been abducted and that they have been implanted with some sort of device.
		Actually, you could tell me more about it than I could certainly sit here and make statements.
		What do most people who believe they have been abducted think that their implant is doing?
		Is it some sort of monitoring device or what?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Well, if they have any thoughts as to why it's there at all, most of them think it's yes, it's some kind of monitoring device or controlling device, but that's probably not what it is at all.
		You know, human logic may not be exactly the same as logic from, let's say, intelligences from elsewhere that may be thousands or millions of years older than we are.
		So we can only look at things in terms of human logic.
		And I've had the occasion to be in 42 countries in the last seven years.
		Excuse me.
		And, you know, it's not much different.
		You get a translator and you listen to what they have to say in Egypt or Poland or South America or wherever.
		The stories are about the same.
		It's certainly not every individual abductee who has even claim or any knowledge that they might have an implant, but the stories of the abduction situation are relatively the same.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
		Is there almost a generic abduction story?
		It is interesting that you've been in all those different countries and they're very similar.
		If you were to tell a generic story made up from all you've heard, what would the abduction be like?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Someone is taken without their permission.
		Sometimes there's memory, sometimes there's little memory, sometimes there's no memory.
		And they're taken some place where they don't know where they are.
		And the ones with the conscious memories have experiences of, I guess you best put it, as medical experimentation.
		In the most cases, having something to do with ovum or a sperm.
		And it goes on from there to all the sub-subjects of seeing what they believe are hybrid offspring and descriptions of beings.
		Sort of universally, it's the gray, but not in every case.
		Some have memories of, I'm talking about conscious memory, not through regressive hypnosis.
		But some see people that look like us, taller, blonde, blue-eyed, good-looking.
		Other people see reptoid beings.
		Other people see insectoid beings.
		And then there's really a myriad of others.
		Looking at things, for example, in the Middle East where little old ladies on cabuses were describing craft coming down with eight, nine-foot-tall beings coming out of it and gathering potatoes out of a field.
		Similar things seen in what was previously the Soviet Union.
		You don't see that in South America.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, is there any big difference between what people are able, some of the best people who have good conscious memories of what happened to them versus those who, for example, went through hypnotic progression?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there a big difference in what they remember?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Well, hypnotic regression done in the hands of a qualified, experienced hypnotherapist, and there's not many of them around anymore.
		Certainly John Mack had his share, and we have Bud Hopkins and David Jacobs, and fortunately in Southern California we have Yvonne Smith, and then in the other countries there's a few others.
		But there's not that many people who have the qualifications that these people have.
		But the hypnotic regression, I believe, only polishes details of the memory.
		Now, I think if everything is done right and according to what is supposed to happen, you're not supposed to remember anything.
		You just go through life and you're as happy as a clam.
		But unfortunately, I think there's been changes in the last maybe 20 or 30 years.
		People have, you know, they develop phobias and kids are afraid of clowns.
		And kids will go to a dentist where they're normally not afraid to be examined by a doctor, but they sit in a dental chair.
		And the minute the nurse brings the light over their face, they freak out.
		Well, some of these kids have had abduction experiences.
		So I think regressive hypnosis only polishes what's there somewhere in the conscious memory.
		Now, I do have someone that I met within The last year, who is a very well-known person and very influential, has had an experience, and he has almost total recall of what went on.
		And he said that he begged them not to erase his memory because he had no fear.
		And he said he had no fear of them, and he didn't know why they were doing what they were doing.
		And he claims that they, and these were the grays, that they told him that he was unique and that they did do experimentations and had a great knowledge about human anatomy and physiology, and that they weren't going to do anything to him because he was a very unique soul.
		And the reason he gave him was one of the ones was he absolutely had no fear of them whatsoever.
		And then there was a few other things.
		For example, he said, you know, you're one of the few humans that we've ever picked up that was trying to tell us a joke which we don't understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's absolutely amazing.
		Last week, I had a guest on the show, Dr. Lear, who said that people who are normally abducted are given these screen memories.
		In other words, everything's blocked out, and they're given this sort of were warm, fuzzy people.
		You had a wonderful experience.
		This screen memory that has to be penetrated to get to the real story.
		Do you agree with that?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think in some cases that's true if they feel you're probably a person that might have a memory and then can't get along with it.
		I hate to say this, especially on the air with a worldwide audience, but I have severe doubts that there's such a thing as a military abduction going on.
		I've looked into these cases, and what I found is that when someone reports military abductions, there's two things that stand out.
		Number one, they live very, very close to a military installation.
		Or number two, the whole family is just filled with people that are in the military.
		Now, these entities seem to be able to tap into your consciousness, and they know what's believable to you and what's not.
		So if you believe that you have 30 relatives in your family that are military officers, I think what's acceptable to that particular person is giving them a nice memory that they're underground in some base with generals running around.
		On the other hand, kids, sometimes they see clowns and owls and animals and things.
		So I think in some cases, that's probably a good scenario, but certainly not in every case.
		And certainly people like this friend of mine now, who's become quite a good friend, with a conscious memory that he has.
		I mean, it's right down to the nitty-gritty.
		And like I was saying, he was telling him a joke.
		And he says, well, if you don't understand what I'm telling you, then how could you tell I'm telling you a joke?
		And he said, they told him because you were laughing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is this a name we would know?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		No.
		No.
		It's possible I could get him to come on the air if he didn't use his real name.
		But it wasn't too long ago that he had another event that occurred driving through Death Valley, California.
		And this one, he was with his driver, and they...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold that story.
		We're at the bottom of the hour, so hold tight, Dr. Lear, and we'll come right back to Gee, Death Valley, that's near home.
		From Manila in the Philippines, I'm Art Bell.
		It is indeed.
		My guest is Dr. Roger Lear.
		He is a podiatrist.
		That's a doctor who basically takes care of your feet.
		That's what he does for a living.
		But somewhere along the way, he became interested in ufology.
		And then he became interested in helping people out who thought they had things implanted in them at various places.
		Then he became interested in surgery to remove these and having them analyzed.
		In other words, hard proof.
		And a lot, apparently, of what's been analyzed, or at least some of what's been analyzed, has come back showing that it has properties similar to that of a meteorite, which would mean things are not normally found here on Earth.
		They can do an analysis of material.
		And if it is not from Earth and it's found inside a human being, at the very least, that has to make you go, hmm.
		So back to Dr. Lear's story about the Death Valley area in a moment.
		Death Valley is very, very close to my homes in the desert.
		And so back now to Dr. Lear.
		Dr. Lear, you're about to say or tell us about a case, a friend of yours, in the Death Valley area, is that right?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's correct.
		He had been traveling through the Death Valley area since he was 16 years of age.
		He's now 83.
		And he has a driver.
		They take a shortcut from Death Valley to go to Tonopah by going through Beatty.
		Do you know where that cutoff is?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I absolutely do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, they've gone that route, he told me hundreds and hundreds of times, and they could have done it backwards, upside down and asleep.
		Well, this one particular night, they were driving along and looking for the cutoff, chatting and so on, and they didn't see it.
		So they kept on going.
		Finally, they realized we passed this, but he said to his driver, you haven't seen Death Valley, Scotty's Castle, and up in that direction And so on.
		And I guess, you know, we could go that way.
		But let's turn around and go back.
		So they did.
		Well, they turned around and went back, and they went back and forth about a half a dozen times until they were convinced that maybe the state closed that road for some reason.
		And he said, well, Dennis, let's just go out the other way, and we can come down from the north and go, we'll skip going to Beatty and we'll just come down into Tonopah.
		So they had already made up their mind that's what they were going to do.
		And they're driving along and in the near distance, they saw an aura of lights.
		And he said to Dennis, he said, my gosh, what are those lights?
		There's not supposed to be any lights out here.
		And he said, in a few minutes, they came to a sign that said, BD.
		Both, and I've interviewed them both.
		They both tell exactly the same story.
		But as I said, he had a history of this happening.
		And I introduced him to Bud.
		Bud will be in California in December for the Norfolk Conference in San Diego, which should be a good one, I should mention.
		David Jacobs will be there, and Bud Hopkins and myself and a few other people.
		And one of the major topics, of course, is alien abduction.
		And it'll be in San Diego.
		I think it's the 2nd and 3rd of December.
		So I think we're going to get these two together.
		And he's willing to undergo a hypnotic session and learn more.
		And Bud talked to him on the phone, and evidently he said things have been going on since childhood.
		But here's a case of a conscious memory.
		Nothing fuzzy.
		Just tells it as he remembers it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		Listen, the website, Vally Hoo's the fact that you had a recent visit to Area 51 during War Game exercises.
		Now, that's incredible.
		Did you really, did you really get to Area 51?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Ooh.
		That's not warm and fuzzy.
		I had been to Area 51 numerous times before.
		Little alien, mailbox, road.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the area.
		Well, yeah, the mailbox.
		Anybody can do that.
		That's on the highway.
		But when you say Area 51, I thought, boy, this guy had somehow managed to actually get a tour of and actually gone into Area 51 or what?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no, no.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		If I'd have been in Area 51, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what I thought.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		They would have erased me, not my memory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		No, I heard about them having their war games, which they call Red Flag Days.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		And I thought to myself, you know, if there is something to see, it would be a good time to fly it.
		So, you know, they just can't fly it over the Nellis Range or Papoose Lake.
		You know, they've got to fly it somewhere.
		So maybe we'll see something unusual.
		And besides, kind of nice to get away.
		As you know, the desert is so clear and you can see the sky at night and it's just marvelous.
		So anyway, we were well outfitted.
		But when I tell you the story, you'll see how absurd things can be.
		So we stayed at the little Ailey Inn.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This was when, please?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		This was about three, four weeks ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, recently.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, recently.
		There was four of us.
		And we drove out there to a meta reservation.
		And we got there late on a Wednesday.
		And we knew that the temperatures get pretty cold at night, so we brought a lot of gear and gloves and thermoses so we could put hot chocolate and withstand the cold.
		And we staked out our little road off the extraterrestrial highway, sort of in the boonies there.
		And as you know, there's not much traffic there to begin with.
		Interestingly enough, there were three Belgian pilots that were staying there also.
		And they were going to fly the following week.
		And when they were not flying, they weren't on the base, so they didn't require them to stay there.
		But they were in constant communication with the satellite phones that they had.
		So we had some interesting conversations with them also, spoke very good English.
		But we went out the first night, as I said, with all the gear, and we decided where we were going to go, so we went off on this dirt road, and we got our chairs, and we watched the war games going on at night, which was quite interesting because the jets, the F-16s, fly in formation, and they do various aerial maneuvers, and you can see them stroving, and the afterburners are on constantly.
		I mean, they're just zipping all over the sky, and they're dropping flares, and all this stuff is going on.
		But we didn't see anything other than that.
		The next day, you can't really see much during the day, but evidently they dropped bombs.
		And when you feel one of these things go off, it's like something I never felt before.
		I was in the Army, but I never felt anything like this.
		It was a double shockwave, a lot like what you experience when you hear the shuttle come in.
		But it reverberates in the ground.
		I mean, it just shakes you to pieces.
		So I don't know what kind of a bomb they're dropping.
		But that was kind of interesting.
		And as I said, when the air temperature at altitude is cold enough, and I don't know whether you know this or not, but when I quit flying, I had about 2,700 hours of air time.
		And they have to be at a certain altitude to get a contrail because the air is cold.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		So you were able to see some of that, but you didn't see a great deal of anything.
		The following night, we said, okay, we're going to get out there before dark, and we'll get to where we were going and so on.
		And we got, for whatever the reason, kind of a late start.
		We were chatting and so on.
		So it was already dark and we were driving down this lonely road.
		And here's where it goes, bananas.
		Around my neck is my binoculars.
		A real nice set of binoculars.
		And my lap is a Sonyo, a Sony video cam with night shot equipment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was going to ask if you took any night vision stuff.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, I had the camera, and there's there, ready to go, sitting on my lap, driving along.
		And I was sitting in the back, and two other people, one driving in the front.
		And the fellow that's driving, as we're cruising down this dirt road, says, oh, look, there's a light on that hill.
		And I say, oh, where, where?
		So we look, and yeah, there's a light on a hill, which wasn't there before.
		And then we slowed down a little bit, and there was two lights.
		And then there was three lights.
		And then four lights.
		And then five, and then six.
		And then pretty soon, the lights you could see were going around in a circle counterclockwise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		So I said, you know, like, wow.
		And I pick up the video camera.
		And by the time I, you know, it's so dark that when you turn on the viewfinder, it about blinds you.
		And by the time I got the viewfinder, you know, to look at the light, it was already going back down where it came.
		Now, if we had had a lick of sense, which we didn't, not at all, you know, official UFO, haha, investigators.
		Camera in the lap, binoculars, we should have just stopped, turned off the lights, of course, and taken some pictures.
		But no, no, we had to get better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't fault you to get better.
		I don't fault you for one second.
		Almost nobody who sees these incredible things has a camera handy and is able to get it focused and ready and take the pictures.
		It just doesn't happen.
		But you really saw that.
		You saw as many as, what, seven lights?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		There were six or seven lights, and they were going around counterclockwise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow, that's a wow.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and you know, if we had stopped and shut off the lights, I think they saw us.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		And therefore, you know, who expects to see a car out, you know, in the desert on a dirt road, even in that area, and not maybe even weird you followed us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you close enough to draw the attention of guards?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		No.
		No.
		But I'm sure they knew we were there because this was no extraterrestrial craft.
		This was something that's ours because they saw us and we weren't supposed to see it.
		They went back down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but what do we have that we know about that rotates in the manner you described?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nothing.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Well, sure, we know absolutely nothing.
		But my God, they don't even tell us that the Aurora exists.
		And that was on the pages, what, 15 years ago of the magazines with the propulsion system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		So they're going to tell us we got that kind of equipment.
		But wait, I hope you guys know the rest of the story.
		Okay, go ahead.
		The rest of the story.
		The following night, we were out and we were getting ready to leave.
		We were still at the little alien, and boy, the activity was just spectacular.
		They were dropping flares and targets, and the F-16s were just all over the place.
		And so we stopped as we were heading out to the car, virtually stopped, and we were looking at things through the binoculars and so on.
		And we saw what we thought were three F-16s flying in formation, two ahead and one trailing, and then another one sort of off to the left.
		And one of the guys exclaimed, gee, that's weird.
		What's weird?
		What are you talking about?
		Well, that big bright star that was just ahead of those two F-16s, it just disappeared.
		So I said, oh, really?
		So I trained my binoculars up there, and there was this whole patch where you could not see the stars, and it was in the shape of a triangle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		And the one to the left that was trailing was an F-16.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		And what we thought were F-16s, which was the strobing, was on each edge of the triangle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you saw exactly what I've seen.
		I got to see it a whole lot closer.
		But there's no question about it.
		We have, or they have, or somebody has a triangle that defies gravity.
		And I defy gravity, then it's a lighter-than-air craft of some sort.
		But what I saw looked very metallic, very silent, completely silent.
		I mean, we have it.
		Either we have it, or they have it, or we back-engineered it or something.
		But these triangles are as real as a heart attack.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		No, absolutely.
		This thing was just blocking, and it was huge.
		I mean, they were at the same height as far as the lights were concerned as what the F-16s were flying.
		And that altitude, you know, had to be above 30,000 feet.
		And this thing blocked out a chunk of the stars.
		You just couldn't see through it, you know.
		But I didn't see the detail.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But there were enough stars so that you could actually make out the outline of what was blocked.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		You know, then we realized these are not three F-16s.
		This is a triangle.
		And as it's moving along, you know, and with all the noise From the other guys with their afterburners on, there was no excess noise from this thing, so I would assume it's silent.
		But again, four of us saw it.
		We all looked through the binoculars and were absolutely flabbergasted.
		And as I said, there were these three Belgian pilots there, and the day that we were leaving, two of them were outside talking on their satellite phones, and I was inside with one of them.
		We were sort of saying goodbye.
		We got to know him pretty well.
		And I said, well, you know, we didn't really waste anything coming here because we saw some interesting things.
		So what'd you see?
		So I told him, and he was kneeling down on the floor by the table where I was sitting.
		And he just smiled.
		He says, well, you know all the things you hear about Area 51?
		Yes.
		Well, he says, they're all true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're all true.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		They're all true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, coincidentally, Belgium is a place that has had, I don't know how many sightings, tons of them of these triangular craft, as I'm sure you're aware.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		And he knew about them.
		Yes, indeed.
		So I said, you know, I'm just wondering how many countries have this exchange program with Area 51 where they participate in these games.
		And he says, well, I really don't know.
		I said, well, I bet you don't see the French Air Force over here.
		And he just busted out laughing.
		He says, you will never see the French Air Force here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'm sure not.
		Boy, isn't that fascinating.
		So he virtually admitted it to you.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's all true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stories here are all true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
unidentified		They're all true, he says.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would so love to know about this.
		I really would.
		Well, so congratulations.
		You had the experience.
		I'm sure what you just told is going to cause a lot of people to go camp out by that mailbox.
		Listen, while we're at it, why don't you tell them, a lot of people want to know, if you want to try and observe for yourself, where exactly do you go?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Well, extraterrestrial highway, easy to find.
		A little alien.
		You get on the extraterrestrial highway, and you can go in either direction.
		There are dirt roads that head off towards the base.
		Don't go too far because you'll come to a gate.
		Don't go past the gate or you won't be around anymore.
		So if you want to take a chance and go down that road, you can see really good from there.
		Or you can go in the opposite direction.
		Now, there's one more thing I've got to tell you.
		The following day, during the day, we took off on that road because the day that we saw this saucer-shaped thing, we wanted to see, you know, what kind of a weird hill is this anyways?
		You know, what's behind it?
		Where could that thing have gone?
		So we didn't have a four-wheel drive, but we took the car and we drove as far as we could down this road, and this I did video.
		And we came across the weirdest set of telephone poles that I've ever seen.
		They were all high-tension lines, and on the bottom set of wires were, you know, the, look-like telephone lines.
		But as we got closer to the edge of this mountain, about every third pole, one of these telephone or communications lines went down the pole and into the ground.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, isn't that odd?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, really, really weird.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		So maybe, just maybe, the extent of the underground portion of that base comes way out farther than the restricted area that you're not allowed into.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Lear, there are a lot of people who think that Area 51 has been abandoned when it comes to these secret projects that we're now talking about and moved up into Utah or to another location.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Obviously, that's not entirely so.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		No, I mean, that's not, it can't be because, you know, certainly they have more than one place where they have this secret stuff, but you're not going to spend that kind of money on that kind of a base.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On top of that, they annexed a lot more land recently, and that can't be for nothing as well.
		Dr. Lear, hold tight.
		We're at the top of the hour.
		We'll be back shortly.
		Dr. Roger Lear, I'm Art Bell in Manila, the Philippines.
		Here I am indeed.
		Dr. Roger Lear is my guest.
		And over the years, he has progressed from a standard medical practice, a podiatrist, to an interest in ufology, and then progressed to removing implants, removing things allegedly implanted by aliens.
		There's no other word for it.
		He just recently took a trip to Area 51 that you just heard described and saw a large triangular craft.
		And that really, really piqued my interest because, of course, that was my sighting.
		God, what a story.
		What a story that was.
		Anyway, back to Dr. Lear in a moment.
unidentified		Dr. Lear in a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, Dr. Roger Lear.
		Dr. Lear, over the years, you have removed, I guess, up to nine objects from human beings.
		That I guess in every instance, was it just a matter of, hey, I've got something in me, or you found something in an x-ray and decided that it should be removed?
		Or how did these things develop?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Well, before I answer your question directly, which I always like to do, time has passed.
		We have now completed the 12th surgery.
		The last one was done on September the 23rd.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		So we've shot ahead.
		Now the 12 surgeries have produced 11 objects.
		Now, to the question, is there how does one know, I guess, is what you're asking, if they got something, or does it hurt?
		Yes, sometimes it hurts.
		Now, the individuals that we consent to do procedures on have to have some kind of a physical or at least psychological complaint that something is there.
		Otherwise, we wouldn't be able to ethically remove anything from anybody.
		We just can't go on a fishing expedition.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Which is it usually, by the way?
		Is it physical or psychological that brings them to you?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Sometimes 50-50 and sometimes both.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Sometimes there's a conscious memory of something being put in by some entity, some intelligence from elsewhere, which is the term that I've been using lately.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And are they normally correct about where?
		In other words, if somebody comes to you and says, look, I think I've got an object that's been, I was abducted, or I think I was abducted, and there's an object in my arm or my ear, let's say.
		I don't know.
		Are they normally correct about where?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, in order to do this on a scientific basis, you just have to establish a certain set of criteria and protocols.
		We don't do anything unless they can prove to me satisfactorily that they have an object, which means that they not only have to suspect where it is, but they have to show me where it is on an X-ray, a CAT scan, or an MRI.
		Otherwise, it's not my bailiwick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it has to happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you've got to see the MRI before they even come to you.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		I don't have anybody come in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		When they come up with some form of radiological physical evidence, then we can take it from there.
		But that's only the beginning.
		There's a long procedure that they have to do.
		I run about three, four, five hundred emails behind a month.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People who think they have something.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		You don't know how many people think they have something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, I do.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		It's the government put it in.
		It's my neighbor.
		It's the Army.
		It's foreign relations secret societies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		So on and on and on.
		And there's suspicions of this.
		And I saw a crash of a UFO in Wyoming that nobody knows about.
		And it's a secret.
		And I'm going to keep it a secret.
		And maybe if you give me $50 million, I'll tell you where it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've had a few of those, too.
		Of all the people you would talk to, say, you just don't know.
		Yes, I do know because I get the emails, Doctor.
		So I do know.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Well, you've been doing this long enough, Art, to probably get a good sampling of what mankind is like, especially those that are familiar with this subject.
		Fortunately, I've gotten some help both psychologically and monetarily from some really nice people who you know.
		They've helped us all, particularly one who has not taken credit for as much as he has done in relation to the process.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I think we both know who we're talking about.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		A very, very successful person who is bound and determined to unlock some of the secrets, and now he has another way of doing it and has been very successful in that endeavor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, of the now 12 surgeries that you've done with 11 objects removed, are there any of these objects that you can say are not from Earth?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Unqualified, yes, is the answer to that question.
		We have certain physical enigmas that don't allow any other theory other than the fact that they're not from here.
		It's not just the fact that biologically there's no portal of entry to where any of these objects go in, or that when you remove the tissue that's around them, there's no inflammatory reaction or rejection reaction.
		Now, how in the heck are you going to get a piece of something in you and not have the body react?
		It doesn't happen.
		So that's just the biological stuff.
		But then when we look at the metal stuff, you know, we have noted labs like New Mexico Tech and Los Alamos and SEAL Labs and York Laboratories and Toronto University and on and on and on.
		I don't mind mentioning those that I can't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If they've done the work for you, then fine.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		They've done it.
		I've got the reports.
		I published it.
		If you don't believe it, that's fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't shoot me.
		No, I do believe it.
		Well, no, I think most of them that are in this audience are smart enough to believe it if we say it is so.
		These objects have come back with what differences that define them as not earthly?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Good question, and I'm going to give you a couple, a little examples.
		Then we'll get to the latest one.
		I was in, I couldn't mention this before because we had an inn in this laboratory with a marvelous scientist that was a dear friend of Whitley Striever.
		His name was Bill Mall, and now he's passed.
		And with his passing, the door has been closed.
		So that laboratory is Southwest Labs in San Antonio, Texas.
		And it is, and it was, and now definitely is, a total black Budget Laboratory.
		We were able to get in there under the auspices of Bill Mallow and get some tests done.
		Now, one of the things we found in the object that we had there, as well as the other ones, is that they are highly magnetic.
		And usually, magnetic objects contain what?
		Iron.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, some sort of iron, yeah.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		So you figure, well, okay, not much unusual about that.
		But then when we do a test called X-ray diffraction, we find that the iron is amorphous.
		That means it has no crystalline form.
		Now, that must be some sort of enigma because when you have all these black-budget scientists that are crowded into a little room looking at this stuff, wondering how amorphous metals can become magnetic, and the director of the laboratory is standing out in the hall with his hands on his hip and the nastiest look on his face that he could ever give you.
		You better believe that if secret science doesn't know how to do it, we don't know how to do it.
		Period.
unidentified		Wow.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		That's only one little example.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And this was an object you had removed.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Yes, this was one of the surgical objects that we removed.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Now, if we shoot ahead to the one we just did, I don't have much back on that yet because it takes a while, and of course it takes money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This would be the 12th surgery.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, 12th surgery.
		A lady with a full history of involving the abduction phenomena, her and her family.
		I have two audio cassette tapes that she gave me that was dictated by her father telling about his experiences, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
		None of these people undergo regressive hypnosis.
		We don't allow it.
		Just for the fact we don't need any more criticism than we get for some little country podiatrist doing weird surgeries with a surgical team.
		Now, I want to make it clear, I only operate on the foot.
		So I don't want to be accused of doing something I'm not supposed to do.
		We do have a surgical team.
		We have general surgeons, and if something's somewhere else, they do it.
		But this case was in the foot.
		And the first x-rays I saw were two years ago, and it was in the third toe.
		And it looked the same as four of the other objects that I removed.
		In fact, it was exactly the same length.
		It was a little rod, a little metallic rod, about six millimeters in length and about the thickness of a pencil lead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you had three previous that were exactly the same?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		No, four.
		This now would be the fifth.
		So before we do the surgery, we want to make sure the thing is there and it's where it was when I first see it.
		So I take an x-ray right before I do the surgery.
		And unfortunately, this thing had worked its way up into a joint and had fractured into three pieces.
		So I said, oh, boy, when it's in three pieces, it's going to be harder to get out when it's just one.
		But we had, as I said, we got enough funds to be able to get the equipment so that makes these things feasible to do.
		But I got it out, and it was all in one sack.
		It was in one subcutaneous, you know, strange sack, which it's still in.
		Now, before we took the thing out, every once in a while I get a new piece of equipment.
		So we used a Gauss meter, and you'll like this stuff.
		You'll know more about it, Art, than I do.
		It puts out an electromagnetic field of four milligauss.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Then we used a radio frequency detector, and I wish you'd have been there because, you know, it has a small antenna.
		You could point this antenna in an isolated area because without any other interference from radio sources.
		You point this antenna to the second toe, and you get no reading at all.
		I mean, the numbers just spin on by.
		You point it to the fourth toe, and it spins on by.
		You point it to the third toe, and it locks on 30.012732.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute, wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Please start again.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		30.01.2732 megahertz.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sorry Joe is barely above 30 megahertz.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		As I said, you know more about it than I do what that means.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		I haven't a clue, but it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did anybody take a radio receiver, tune to that frequency, and try and see what it was?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would have been the next obvious thing to do.
		If you're getting enough radiation from that thing on that frequency to register, then, oh my God, you would certainly want to damn, Doctor, you're right.
		I should have been there.
		I've got many receivers that would cover that frequency.
		And to know what it was transmitting, what kind of signal it was transmitting, what kind of modulation, if any, there was on the carrier, if there was a carrier, or whether it was FM or AM or something we don't know.
		Oh, my God.
		I would love to have been there.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Well, I wrote down the numbers because I said, oh, my God, and I'm not going to remember this.
		The number is too long.
		So I wrote it down, and we got it on video and sent pictures of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's see if it means anything to anybody out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was 30.012732.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very specific frequency.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		You just locked on it, and then I shut it off and let it rotate again.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		It would go right back to the same frequency.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Now, this is why I have decided, if I stay alive long enough, I'm going to physically construct Here in California, an institute for physical evidence research.
		And amongst other things, we're going to have a lab where, if we find findings like this, we're going to have an isolated room which won't allow penetration by anything.
		And I hope we'll have enough equipment and then experts like yourself who will be there.
		This is going to be a real place where we can study evidence not only from alien abduction phenomena, but other sources of UFO phenomena, landing traces, et cetera.
		Nobody ever looks at the physiological aspects of abductees.
		Why do they all feel the way they do after an experience?
		They're all dehydrated.
		They gobble water.
		You look at some of the electrolyte balances.
		They're not normal.
		What's going on?
		But nobody bothers to look at it.
		I want a thing that is like NIDS was, except for just doing specific things.
		And then we're not going to wait to try and get papers out that are peer-reviewed because I want to put up an uplink.
		And we're going to broadcast it.
		We'll stick it right in the face of academic science.
		and it's going to be real hard for them to ignore.
		And I've got to say that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And boy, what I wouldn't have given to have been there with a receiver.
		Okay.
		So this was in three pieces, but within a sack, you said, of some sort.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		In a, whatever you want to call it, in a membrane or some kind of specialized tissue.
		Now, it's still there.
		I just had the optical microscopy done.
		I just got the pictures.
		I sent them all to Tom, but I guess unfortunately they didn't get up on the website.
		Maybe you could get a hold of them and have them put them up later for people to look at.
		But very interesting-looking thing.
		Now, I did one other thing that you'd be very, very interested with, you know, limited stuff, limited budget.
		I took a magnet and I took this object with all.
		Now, you've got to remember, all three of these pieces are now separated.
		The only thing that's containing them is this subcutaneous sac, membraneous sac.
		And I laid the object on the magnet just to see what would happen.
		And you know what happened?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		It stood up on one end.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		And you say, well, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, obviously it was magnetic and polarized.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Same conclusion I came to.
		And then I had a plastic forcep and I took it off and then I turned it around and I said, well, I wonder what would happen if I put the other end and by God, it stood up on the other end.
		Now, in the first place, the pieces are not touching each other.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		So I got this on video also.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		It stands up and whichever way you want to put it, it'll stand up and the top part will just fold over 90 degrees.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's really weird.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it is weird.
		And as I said, I'm just so sorry that the pictures aren't up for the folks to see.
		But we'll try and put them up on my website at least.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How long ago was this, surgery now?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		23rd of September.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		23rd of September.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And this person had been complaining of...
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Well, you would, too, if you had a piece of metal stuck in your joint.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With no memory of stepping on anything or any other causative factor other than the abduction experience.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		No, just happened suddenly.
		And in fact, she's a nurse.
		She works for Kaiser.
		And she went in for some other reason.
		She injured her ankle, sprained her ankle or something.
		And like some of the other cases, they took x-rays and said, oh, you've got metal in your toe.
		Oh, no, I don't.
		I never stepped on anything.
unidentified		There it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, is that odd stuff.
		That's really odd, particularly having a frequency that it was transmitting on and just finding that again and again and again.
		Oh, to have gone further with that.
		You're the first one who's ever given me a specific, like, a frequency that an object was transmitting on.
		Now, after you removed this object from the tow, doctor, I would take it that you looked for a continuing transmission from this item.
		Did it stop?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it did indeed.
		It doesn't do anything.
		You can't even, you know, on a trimeter, you can get a magnetic reading, but you can't get an electromagnetic reading anymore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold tight, doctor.
		We're at a breakpoint.
		We'll be right back.
		This is coast-to-coast AM I'm Art Bell.
		I'll tell you this.
		If I had been there and I had a signal coming at 30.012732 megahertz, I don't think I could have let them take it out.
		Not until I'd analyzed everything in sight about that signal.
		Driving me absolutely crazy to hear this and not to have been there and been part of that.
		And that's the way it goes, I guess.
		But can you imagine radiation coming from an object in somebody's toe on that frequency and not be able to look further into it than that?
		Dr. Roger Lear is my guest, and he'll be right back.
		As many of you know, I have a bad back, and I've had my share of MRIs.
		And one time when I went And got an MRI.
		The technician was really nice, and we were talking about the strength of the electromagnetic force created by the MRI machine.
		And he opened up the front of the machine and said, Well, okay, you want to see?
		And he opened up front and took a metal bar, turned the machine on, held the metal bar close so it wouldn't clam into it, and turned the machine on, and then said, go ahead, try to remove it.
		I put my hand around that metal bar and I pulled as hard as I could, and there was no way.
		So the electromagnetic field created by an MRI machine is astoundingly strong.
		Making this question very relevant, Chris H. in Lakeland, Florida asked, doctor, has anybody ever had an implant ripped out by an MRI?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Logical question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Not to my knowledge.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		We've had MRIs done on them, and they seem totally resistant to that very powerful force that's generated by the MRI magnets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's odd.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Well, having it stand up on a magnet where you think it would have a polar attraction and then turn it around the other way is rather odd also.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sure is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But they show up on MRIs.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they'll show up, right?
		And a lot of people are fooled because they see things on MRIs which they expect to see in an X-ray, and they're not.
		For example, on an MRI, you can look at a good cross-section of a blood vessel, and will it appear as a nice bright spot?
		Well, they'll think that's something that shouldn't be there, but that's all it is, is the nice cross-section of the blood vessel with the blood flowing through it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		So this thing is off now being tested, is that correct?
		Or about to be?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Well, we had the optical microscopy done this, but we just got back.
		Now it's going for the AFM, which is atomic force microscopy, which is the most sensitive instrument for looking at the surface.
		So we will look at the surface of not only the membrane that contains it, but also the metal within.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's talk for a second about the membrane that surrounds it.
		Now, is this something that normally would be, I don't know, generated by the body in some sort of immune response to the object?
		Or is this in itself anomalous?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		This in itself is anomalous because, well, let's just take some practical examples.
		In World War II, a lot of pilots were shot up and got pieces of shrapnel and flack and windscreen stuff stuck in their bodies.
		And when they had too much or they were in bad places, the doctors didn't go take them out.
		They just left them there.
		Now, if you took any one of these at a later date and removed it, you'd say, okay, well, the patient didn't have a lot of problem, but stayed in there, see, there's no problem.
		But when you look at it through the microscope, then you see evidence of what's called a chronic inflammatory reaction.
		Now, a chronic inflammatory action will build a wall, and it'll build a wall of fibrous tissue which surrounds the object, and that medically is what we call a fibrous inclusion cyst.
		And so that's what you find with most things, most things.
		Either the body is going to reject it, like you get a sliver or a piece of glass or something like that, and you scream in pain, don't want to touch it, and maybe you get lucky and you soak it in some warm salt water, and it'll work its way out.
		But it's not the salt water that's sucking it out.
		It's the body with the immune system and the cells that are going in.
		They're the little phagocytes that are acting on it, and it gets rid of it.
		But when you look at these things, you see nothing.
		This is not fibrous tissue.
		This is a very smooth, much, I would describe it as a membrane.
		Now, in the past, we've had analysis of this done, and it only contains three things.
		One is what's called a protein coagulum, which means protein derived from coagulated blood.
		And the next thing it has is striated keratin, and this is the stuff that makes up your skin, hair, fingernails, and so on.
		And then it has hemosiderin, which is very similar to hemoglobin.
		It's an iron-binding ferrous iron pigment, which holds oxygen.
		Now, I've looked high, wide, and handsome from Harvard to wherever, through all the medical school libraries at great cost to see if any of this tissue has been described by anybody else.
		I mean, we have a lot of written stuff on the body and pathology and physiology, but there is no such combination that's ever been removed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do we know?
		For example, let's work backwards a little bit.
		Can you relate any of the story that she told about the abduction?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		It's much the same as, you know, in the classic memory cases, as I said, these individuals don't undergo regressive hypnosis before having surgery.
		She wants to have it done now.
		So next time we talk, I'll have a better answer as to what happened.
		But she, you know, has the light in the room and sees figures and the usual kind of run-of-the-mill stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Run-of-the-mill stuff.
		Yeah, run-of-the-mill stuff.
		I suppose from your perspective, it's run-of-the-mill, but being in a spaceship with creatures around you and lights and all the rest of it is not exactly what I'd call run-of-the-mill.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		What do you think about my idea of really looking at physical evidence the way it should be?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think it's a superb idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It takes money.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, I've Got several ways of doing that.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		One is another crazy thing I'm doing, which I'm going to do a movie, a full-fledged entertainment film.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		It's called Earth's Original Sin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's a great title.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and I've got in fact we did a teaser for the movie, and Coast to Coast Zone Ross Mitchell did the narrative for the space scene.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He'd be ideal for that.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he was.
		It's really good.
		We've got a wonderful script, and it covers all the sub-subjects of the field of ufology from implants, abductions, secret societies, the role of religion, government, cattle, mutilations, etc.
		But it's done in a fictionalized form with a good story and an ending which will shake the spirits out of you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Earth's Original Sin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What a great title.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		And you can look at some clips from the teaser on my website if anybody out there is interested.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if you make money from this, which, by the way, is not a norm for movies, depending on how you do them, it will go for research.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		It's going to go to either pay for and build, or if we can get, there's a chance we can build this without the funds from the movie.
		But the movie, if it's successful, and I'm beginning to believe that if things are supposed to be, it's going to happen, and if they're not, they won't.
		But like you said, it's very difficult to make money from movies, especially if you go through the norm.
		So we want to produce this as a privately endowed film and create a situation in which we will get major distribution.
		There's some new things that have happened in the last couple of years, and I've had to get quite an education in doing this.
		And I've got a wonderful partner in this who's got a lot of experience in the motion picture field.
		So everything looks like we're waiting to get the budget now.
		And to find two people to get along together without stealing from each other in the motion picture business is strange.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tell me about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		We found that the gal that wrote the script met with the script handler and she's the one that's doing the budget and we had the most wonderful, marvelous, productive meeting I have had on anything, certainly a lot better in medicine.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		But they just got along tremendously and that's what I'm waiting for now is the budget.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Another route to mainstream science, of course, is publishing in some sort of peer-reviewed journal.
		Have you done that yet?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		No, we got real close.
		Colin Kelleher from NIDS was working on our project where we were certainly we had a piece of material from a non-terrestrial being.
		We had tremendous amounts of money spent doing DNA research.
		And we were getting ready to publish in a small scientific journal.
		And almost there, two weeks away from that, Colomb had already written the article, one of the scientists, one of the world's leading geneticists that was working on this came out with a brand new PCR procedure and discovered this was not what we thought it was totally.
		And if we'd have published that, we would have been the Earth's laughingstock.
		So that's as closest as we got.
		But I've tried to, we've had this criticism before, but there are academic scientists out there who can't get things published in a peer-reviewed journal.
		Remember that NASA is still in a big fight arguing about the meteorite with carbonaceous life in it from Mars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's quite true.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		That's why I want to get in a situation where I'm going to throw it in their faces.
		We'll just put it out there.
		And let them start arguing about it.
		There's nothing better in academic science than an argument between several scientific groups.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's absolutely right.
		What would you say?
		Is this now the most unusual object that you have ever removed?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		It's most unusual from the facts that I just gave you.
		I haven't got the rest of the story yet because we don't know whether it's going to fall in line with some of the other things that we found.
		But I would say the most unusual one was, and it still raises the hair on the back of my neck, was the object that was in the lady's arm that moved when you put your finger on it.
		And then it began to follow your finger.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, now I hadn't heard this one.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Oh, this was, I've got this on video, too, as I do everything else.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		And when I see it today, the hair still stands up on the back of my neck.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, tell me about it.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		A lady in her early 50s, airline stewardess for a major airline, had an experience about 20 years before she saw me was sleeping one night with her intended about 3 o'clock in the morning.
		Again, the same old story.
		Pardon me for keep saying that.
		Room fills up with light.
		She wakes up, tries to wake up the boyfriend, shakes him violently, won't wake up.
		She's got to see what the light is.
		Is it a cop that's shining a spotlight in the window?
		A hovering helicopter, somebody with bright lights on.
		They shouldn't be doing that because they're disturbing her sleep.
		Gets out of bed, goes to the window.
		Next thing you know, it's morning.
		She wakes up.
		The boyfriend is gone.
		She's sick.
		Has all the feelings of the flu, muscle aches, pains, extremely dehydrated, wants water, goes into the bathroom, gulps about three, four glasses of water, doesn't know whether she's going to go call in and cancel her flight that day.
		Decides to go back to bed, goes back to bed, sleeps for another couple hours, get up, feels a little bit better, goes in, takes a shower, and as she's washing herself in the shower, she looks at her left arm and there's a large marble-sized lump there.
		And she said to herself, oh my God, you know, I didn't have that when I went to bed.
		I wonder what it is.
		So she, you know, if you woke up and you had a lump, what would you do?
		You would touch it.
		So she touched it, and it moved.
		It scared the crap out of her.
		She about fell in the shower.
		And then she called a friend of hers, and the friend told her, you know, don't worry about it.
		It's probably nothing but a cyst.
		And she never saw the boyfriend again and decided never to tell anybody because the experience was too weird.
		And then she finally got a hold of me, and I heard the story on the telephone because she didn't live that far away from my office.
		And I thought, oh, boy, here's a lady with a psychological problem.
		She doesn't need me.
		She needs somebody else.
		But anyway, I said, well, why don't you come to the office and let me take a look at it.
		Have you had any x-rays taken?
		And she said, no.
		This is one of the cases where I sort of broke my own rule for Lord knows why.
		So she came, and very nice lady, and we sat and chatted, and she told me about the experience.
		And I said, okay, let me look at your arm.
		So here was this marble-sized lump.
		And she was very sort of a frail individual with a very thin arm, and it made the lump look even larger than it was.
		And I thought to myself, well, this, you know, I've seen a lot of cysts in 40 years, and this just looks like a cyst to me.
		And so I said, well, what's this business about it moving?
		And she says, well, go ahead and touch it.
		And I said, well, okay, sure.
		So I went to palpate it.
		That's what we call it.
		And I touched it, and it moved about an inch away.
		Wow.
		But that didn't say good old me because the way my mind has been trained, you know, if something is occurrence, physiologically, there's an answer.
		So I'd made up my mind, well, she probably got an infection.
		And sometimes bacteria make a tract subcutaneously, which we call a sinus tract.
		So obviously she had an infection, and she developed a cyst, and this thing just moves in the sinus tract.
		So therefore, if I put my finger where it started and then touch it again, it'll just move back to the same spot, and that'll be the answer to the whole thing.
		So I did that, and instead of going back to where it was, it went 90 degrees in the other direction.
		Now, believe me, it didn't get up, didn't give up.
		This is all logical.
		She's got two sinus tracts, right?
		Why not?
		It can happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		So you've got 10 fingers, so I put one finger on the first place, the second finger on the other place, and I touched it, and it went another 90 degrees.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		And so what it would do, basically, it would go anywhere within about a circle of a diameter of about two and a half inches.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy mackerel.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		And then when I was playing with it, you know, sort of, to see what it would do, it would then begin to follow my finger.
		And that's the hairiest part to me.
		I mean, even today, when I look at the video, this thing's following my finger as I move it around her arm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I sure would like to see the video.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I can send you a DVD.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, a couple of items, just for your reference.
		Rob in Alabama says, look, the Federal Communications Commission shows that frequency range as totally U.S. government.
		Mobius in Arden, North Carolina says 30.012 megahertz was used by Northrop's OV2-5 satellite in the 6870 era, says it was used for cosmic data and UV deep space collection, speculation used by some modem spy satellites.
		So it's obviously government frequency range.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy, you're leaving me absolutely speechless and the hair standing up now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, it's true.
		It's all true.
		A lot of people are collecting data on this, and they're all coming back and saying it's U.S. government territory.
		I'm sure that is correct.
unidentified		Cosmic meaning deep space.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Suppose, again, I don't know that much about electronics.
unidentified		Suppose this is a harmonic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's, of course, entirely possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It could be a harmonic.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Maybe it's even an electromagnetic spectrum that we don't have any idea what it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, any of that, any of that is possible.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		But boy, what you just told me, I mean, really knocks me off my pins.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Dr. Lear.
		When we get back, we'll shortly begin taking phone calls, so those that know the numbers are welcome to begin to try.
		Dr. Roger Lear is my guest.
		He is a podiatrist who turned his attention some time ago to ufology and removing objects from people that ought not be there.
unidentified		I'm Mark Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Breaking news from the Middle East.
		Saddam Hussein is guilty.
		Death by hanging is the sentence.
		And some are expecting all hell to break loose within minutes.
		So there you have it.
		Breaking news.
		Saddam Hussein guilty and will be put to death, apparently, by hanging.
		Laura in Hell's Canyon, Washington sends that.
		We'll see about the all-hell breaking loose.
		But there's the breaking news for you.
		My guest is Dr. Roger Lear.
		To be sure, some of these stories have been absolutely fascinating, Particularly the frequency.
		I'm Arbell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
		We'll be back in a moment.
		Once again, we've got breaking news.
		Saddam Hussein guilty of crimes against humanity.
		He will be hung by the neck until dead.
		Three codefendants sentenced to 15 years.
		The defense attorney in the trial apparently ejected for something or another.
		I don't have information on what that is just yet.
		A lot of people expecting big news out of Iraq and a lot of trouble as a result of this verdict.
		Okay, back to our guest, Dr. Roger Lear.
		Doctor, welcome back.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Good to be here again.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do want to ask you one general question, which actually was listed on a list of questions, and it's one I'm highly curious about, and that is whether you think, in your opinion, whether the truth about UFOs, whatever that is, will ever be released?
		Well, I guess maybe the first question ought to be, do you think that our government or any government knows the truth about UFOs?
		And if so, will it ever be released?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Answer to part one is yes and no.
		The word government needs qualification.
		I don't think that every representative, elected representative that sits in Congress knows about what's going on.
		Maybe some of them do.
		Maybe some of them don't.
		But I think the term government is painted with too broad a brush.
		Some people in this government, I'm sure, know.
		Some people in the government of the UK know.
		Some of them in Australia know.
		Certainly some of them in Belgium know.
		Brazil know.
		But is it all governments and all of the government?
		No.
		And will it ever be released?
		I've come to the conclusion that the timetable may not be in human hands at all.
		If you go back through history and look at the history of this subject and the supposed meetings that have taken place and the Eisenhower meeting and so on, if you just accept 10% of that as the reality, there's a good indication that this is some kind of a joint effort between us and the Minimans.
		And it depends on who wants it released.
unidentified		Maybe it'll never be released.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think the reaction would be if, in fact, it was released?
		If what we least expect actually occurred, and let's say our government, the U.S. government, were to suddenly, the president comes on TV and lays it out for us.
		How would that go down?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think as far as the United States and the more progressive societies in this world would probably take it with a grain of salt.
		Okay, yeah.
		Well, you know, now we know there's, what, going on close to 200 extrasolar planets.
		The next step is, oh, yeah, gee, you know, some of them look like they're inhabited.
		The next step's, yeah, well, they are inhabited.
		Not only that, but they've been visiting.
		So what's the big deal?
		Whereas you go somewhere else in Africa or the Amazon and Brazil, and they'll say, well, you know, it's probably the work of God.
		And they'll go out in the jungle and start praying to it.
		So reaction worldwide would probably be a lot different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		All right.
		To the phones we go.
		Anybody with a question for Dr. Lear is certainly welcome.
		First time caller line would be James in Arizona.
		You're on with Dr. Ritt Lear.
		Hi.
unidentified		Good afternoon.
		Good morning.
		Tucson, Arizona, KNST 790.
		Me and seven of my relatives all have a pain in the joint of our big toe.
		And I'm wondering if there might be some kind of correlation.
		Should I have that checked out?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Well, I certainly have it checked out.
		You know, there's a lot of physiological reasons why you might have pain in the big toe.
		One of them that comes to mind is a gout, which not only causes pain in the big toe joint, but it's also hereditary.
		So it can be arthritis or half a dozen other different things.
		Have it checked out.
		Certainly wouldn't hurt to get an x-ray taken.
unidentified		All right.
		And then just a general comment.
		When Diana Spencer married Windsor Charles, I became related to the Bushes and the Queen of England.
		I'm wondering if that's some giant correlation.
		And another thing, the Illuminati is real because my father just happens to be one of them.
		So I'm just wondering if maybe I'm some kind of genetic experiment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, obviously we have no way of knowing that, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But as far as the Illuminati being real, Dr. Lear, you've looked into these societies a little bit, haven't you?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		I have some friends who have studied this for numbers of years.
		And I always remember that years ago, I had some nice copies of Gary Allen's books, the political science professor from Stanford University, where he wrote numerous books on the CFR.
		CFR, CFR, what in the world is the CFR?
		Committee on Foreign Relations.
		Well, what do they do?
		Well, my gosh, you know, back in those days, written in those books was the names of people that were around, you know, 10 years ago, written, you know, 30 years ago, like Henry Kissinger.
		Whoever heard of Henry Kissinger or William Clinton?
		These people were all in the books having to do with the CFR.
		And if the CFR is a reality, which it certainly is, we know where they meet and they know how many times a year they meet.
		And then Bill Clinton was photographed a few years back by the news folks coming out of a Builder Burger meeting in Canada.
		We know about the Illuminati.
		We know about Bush being a member of the Skull and Bones.
		Of course, these things are real.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But are they the way to phrase this?
		Are they the dark, ominous, scary, evil things that people make them out to be?
		Or are they something less?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't think they're warm and fuzzy, let's put it that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Back to abductions for a moment and implants, for that matter.
		Have you come to any conclusions, Doctor, even personal conclusions after all the interviews and the surgeries and all the rest about what these abductions, what motivates them, what they're all about?
		What are your personal thoughts?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, sorry.
		I try and stay with the scientific paradigm, but it still doesn't stop me from being a free thinker.
		I guess I can be a free talker.
		I've been on coast many times, and I speak what is my opinion.
		That's what people should take it as, only an opinion.
		Because if there's somebody that gets on this show or any other show or public forum and says, well, here it is, folks, I've got the answers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, be wary of that.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		You better put your fingers in your ears and run.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, qualified.
		I'm asking you for your personal opinion.
		I'm doing this alone now.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think that something is going on which has to do with human genetics.
		And I agree with David Jacobs that it looks like there's some kind of a hybrid program going on.
		Most cases of abduction involve something genetics, ova and sperm.
		Now that may not be the only answer.
		And I've done a study on 17 functional growth characteristics in children over a 40-year period and find out that these characteristics have been accelerated from 16 to 80 percent.
		Now that's even a fast evolution.
		That's too fast.
		And if you look at all the possible reasons, and this is worldwide, this is not just in Norway or the U.S. This is worldwide.
		And this is a fast kind of stuff.
		So it's not food.
		It's not TV.
		It's not environmental.
		And it's not mutation because as we know, mutations are inconstant.
		You can get somebody with six fingers on one hand and four on the other, one blue eye, one green eye.
		But these are very specific things that are in books.
		These are statistical things that hold true.
		The age that a baby raises his head, stands up.
		You look at kids today, and there's not a mother or grandmother or grandfather that will tell you, oh, my gosh, this kid said something.
		I can't believe what they said.
		Have you ever heard that?
		It's coming from parents or grandparents.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again and again and again and again.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, indeed.
		Maybe one of the reasons for abduction is that the human race is being genetically remanipulated.
		And I hope it's for the better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, I wanted your opinion, and you sure gave it.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		That's it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, and in Tucson, you're on with Dr. Roger Lear.
unidentified		Good evening, gentlemen.
		I was doing a healing session on a woman.
		She was face up on the table, and I had my hands several inches above her face, palms down, and as I went over her eyes, something popped out of her left eye, hit the palm of my hand, and the woman goes, oh, I've been having trouble with that eye.
		She was ready to set up an appointment with her eye doctor, and her family had been having abduction situations, a child waking up out in the woods.
		The family was having nosebleeds, ear bleeds.
		And when we searched the room, we could not find it.
		And the only explanation I could even come up with was reading sort of quantum physics for dummies and antimatter meeting matter and it disappears.
		And just my two cents in this, oh, and her eye did clear up and I did find several other areas in her breast that also had the same energetic pull.
		And my only two cents worth on why are some people abducted and others are not.
		Everybody says, well, by universal law and metaphysics, if you tell something to leave, it's supposed to leave.
		I found repeatedly in people that I worked with, the ones that were having abduction phenomena had trouble setting boundaries in other aspects of their lives, maybe abuse as a child, and it's sort of a chicken and the egg thing which came first, the abduction phenomena, or that they had already had boundaries broken through child abuse or something like that.
		But this woman particularly had a lot of trouble setting boundaries and attracting the wrong people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Ann, I'm not a physicist, but if antimatter had hit your hand, I don't think you'd have a hand.
		I think antimatter destroys matter with quite an impressive bang, I'm told, if it actually occurred.
		So I don't know beyond that, but that's a pretty wild story.
		Boy, Doctor, you can get stories like that all day long.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Well, I wish I had the object that came out of the eye.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		put it that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, apparently it jumped out of the eye and hit her hand, which was above that lady's head.
		Very, very odd stuff, to say the least.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Roger Lear.
		John, in Long Island.
unidentified		Hello, Archer.
unidentified		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing okay.
unidentified		Okay, I just have two questions for the doctor.
		The space shuttle produces the sonic boom.
		Now, UFOs supposedly can move a hell of a lot faster than that because the gravitational pull of the planets.
		Now, how come you never heard of any UFOs actually producing the sonic boom?
		And the second question is, God knows how many satellites we have circling this Earth.
		And they can take pictures with perfect clarity.
		How come the satellites are not picking up these UFOs coming or going?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, two actually good questions.
		With regard to the sonic boom, we all hear sonic booms all the time, and rarely do we know what they came from.
		So I guess I'll leave that one there.
		I mean, how many of us really understand the source of the sonic boom unless we know the shuttle's coming in and we actually hear the boom, which I've heard several times, and I'm sure many of you have.
		Otherwise, we hear sonic booms all the time, and we don't know where they come from.
		So how do we know what they're from?
		Now, you want to add anything to that, Doctor?
		He mentioned satellites, too, and why don't we get clear photographs?
		I would think even if the government had a satellite up there that took a clear photograph of a UFO, certainly they're not going to hand us the footage.
		The closest we get to that is the STS missions, which have cameras focused down on the Earth, and we've got a lot of weird footage from that.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		We've got a lot of weird footage from the GOES satellites in reference to the sonic boom issue.
		I don't think that the form or modus operandi of the transportation is linear.
		You know, if now several scientists and I even understand there's been some change in the opinion of quantum physicists that believe that black holes do exist and can transport us through various areas of the multiverse.
		And so when we see an object in one spot and then we instantaneously see it in another, that doesn't mean that it traveled from point A to point B. They may have a way of doing it, and we may also have back engineered that technology where right-angle high-speed turns do not create any kind of a linear drag on the atmosphere that would cause a sonic boom.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a good point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very quickly, West of the Rockies, Chris, you're on with Dr. Lear from New Mexico.
unidentified		Hi, Art, and hi, Dr. Greer, and welcome back to this program.
		Great guest.
		I have a very simple question for Dr. Greer.
		Given the exciting work that he's been doing, why does he think that no other doctor is doing the same thing or inclined to do the same thing, both here in the United States and abroad?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Well, in the first place, I've never said that there wasn't anybody else except me.
		I said what I have said in the past is I don't know of anybody else.
		There may be hundreds of people doing it all over the world, but it's not on the literature.
		It's not in the Internet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Chris, do you know of anybody doing it?
unidentified		I certainly don't.
		But wouldn't you think that those people would try to get in touch with each other?
		I have a hard time to believe that those people would keep it secret and would not at least get in touch with other people interested in the same field.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would certainly hope they would, but so far nobody has contacted me.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		I get contacts from other physicians in various specialties, and they want opinions about various things, but as far as I know, there's nobody that's made sort of a sub-scientific specialty out of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, I would think that other physicians, for example, certainly remove things from people from time to time.
		Some of them might be things that have stories attached to them of abductions or what have you.
		And perhaps the person didn't tell the physician about that.
		And so the physician does a little bit of surgery, removes something, and tosses it away with the rest of the bio dangerous material or something, right?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're exactly right.
		And you're right on.
		And I've done the same thing myself for most of my practice life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there might be all kinds of things that are removed from people almost routinely, and they might or might not have some story attached to them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They just get tossed away, and that's that.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		That's it.
		We're interested in how the patient does, where we got it all out, and whether it's malignant or benign.
		And if everything is fine, then everything else is bye-bye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's it, folks.
		They check to make sure that something is not malignant, which from a medical point of view, it probably would not be.
		They do no further testing.
		It gets tossed, and that's the end of that.
		Dr. Roger Lear, he's doing something a little different.
		Of course, that's why he's on coast to coast AM, and he'll be right back.
		Top of the day to everybody, whatever time of day it is, wherever you are.
		Dr. Roger Lear is a physician who removes, among other things, implants.
		Well, we think they're implants, things that test, for example, much as meteorites test the fall to Earth.
		And that is with substances simply not found on Earth.
		Now, if you pull that out of a person, what is it that you've taken out of them?
		Well, he's getting all of that tested.
		He's just recently taken out another that is very suspicious.
		We'll have the results of that soon.
		But some of the others definitely have come back like meteorites.
		What does that tell you?
		I'm Mark Bell.
unidentified		I'm Mark Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Dr. Lear has a website, alienscalpel.com.
		That's alienscalpel.com.
		He also has a video DVD, which is entitled The Scientific Study of Alien Implants.
		You can order that, and Doctor, correct me if I'm wrong about any of these numbers, at area code 805-495-2613.
		That's 805-495-2613.
		That should be fascinating.
		A couple of books, The Aliens, rather, and the scalpel.
		You can order that also at Area Code 805-495-2613.
		Again, that number, 805-495-2613.
		That sounds like a personal number.
		And, of course, UFO crash in Brazil, the latest, at 800-700-9733.
		That's 800-700-9733.
		Is all that correct, Doctor?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		The last one also they can get for the 805-495-2613.
		And I just came out with a brand new DVD.
		It's a wonderful interview with one of the pilots who flew a chase plane in 1976 in Iran for the famous UFO event that happened over at Tehran.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Spongebob interview.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		This man is a retired general from the Iranian Air Force.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This 805 number, is that you?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		That's me.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		That's me.
		But I have there's a service and a secretary there who picks it up and takes the call.
		Also, The Aliens in the Scalpel now is out in the second revised edition.
		It's the newest book that came out.
		It has some of the material that was in the first one, but then there's all new stuff in the back, new reports and photos.
		So totally different ballgame.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's see if we can clear some calls here.
		We've got an awful lot of them.
		Wild Card Line 4, John, you're on with Dr. Lear.
unidentified		Yeah, this is John in Westminster.
unidentified		Dr. Lear, are you aware that a man who was murdered a few years back by the name of...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't give us a name.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A man who was murdered.
unidentified		Well, you've had his name on the radio before, so I don't know what the problem is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I doubt there's one, but you never know.
		I'm just trying to be careful here.
		So at any rate, what about this man?
unidentified		He was connected with the Area 51.
		He was the geologist that helped build the underground rail system as well as the underground bunkers.
		It was Phil Snyder.
		Now, Phil pointed out in one of his tapes a number of things that from the early 1940s into the 90s, we had spent a series of trillions of dollars upon black budget.
		Part of that black budget is connected to what Dr. Lear ran into when he was in Brazil when we're talking about the man who died within two weeks of a hemorrhagic condition.
		Now, what Phil pointed out on the tape was that the Russians and the Americans, of course, had been developing different biologicals, and that the Russians had more deadly material that had a longer shelf life.
		And the reason that it had a longer shelf life was they were using recombinant DNA to take fluids from alien bodies and combine that with bacteria and viruses, hence hemorrhagic fever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so your question is, is he aware of all this or what?
unidentified		Yeah, is he aware of that and other programs that have dealt with body fluids of different aliens in conjunction with the biological program?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've certainly done as much reading as the next guy reference to the subject.
		And I've heard that, of course, before, including one individual who's still being, the name's being bannered about, which I won't mention, that claims to have been working on a project there from a dying species that was using earth science to help solve the problem.
		So, yeah, I've heard it many times before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, Pat, you're on with Dr. Lear.
unidentified		Hi, Dr. Lear and Art.
		I have a question about a scar that's behind my left ear.
		I had it since I was a teenager, and when I was in my 20s, I asked my mother if I ever had surgery, and she said, no.
		In 1992, I had cancer in the ear, and I had it reconstructed.
		And the doctor looked behind my ear, and he said, have you ever had laser surgery recently?
		And I said, never.
		And he said, well, you have a scar.
		And I said, yes, I know.
		I've had it since I was a teen.
		And I was just wondering if you've heard another case of this happening.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		There are many cases involved with the abduction program in which abductees have wounds and scars.
		I'm not talking about anything in relation to the implant subject because the implants have no scar.
		But in relation to the abduction phenomena itself, many abductees report the scars that they have no knowledge of their origin.
unidentified		Is there any way of finding out if it's like who do I talk to, who I see?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		What part of the country are you in?
unidentified		I am in New York.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		In New York?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, you have the Intruders Foundation there, and I would certainly give them a call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But Hopkins, Pat, do you have any memory of any abduction or anything like that?
unidentified		I have loads of stuff.
unidentified		I mean, loads of memories, loads.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, in that case, the Intruders Foundation would be where you'd want to go.
		It's, you know, impossible over the phone, obviously, to make that kind of call, for the doctor to make that kind of call other than to say, yeah, get it looked at.
		In Tennessee, Jay, you're on with Dr. Lear.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Hello.
		I'd like to thank both of you for talking to me right now.
		Sure.
		My question is, is that considering the 30 megahertz range that is publicly reserved and publicly available to review, it's reserved for mobiles, I sent this to you a little bit ago on email.
		What makes you think that this is not partially involving the human agencies and since this telecommunications range is specifically involved within for mobiles?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, okay.
		Well, it's a reasonable question.
		We have no way of knowing right now what it might be involved with.
		We also know it's a satellite frequency, or very close to one.
		So it could be.
		In other words, he's saying, what makes you think, Doctor, that it doesn't have some earthly origin?
		And the answer to that, I suppose, has to be it could.
		But who do you know implanting people with transmitters?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, it doesn't look like all I can say at this point without having more data.
		We have to wait until we get the data about the internal structure is that it doesn't really look like anything that's in the form of a microchip or something that we would know that would produce that kind of a signal.
		Most of the things I've looked at before, apparently, are forms of nanotechnology.
		Now, we did have another one that we removed that was putting out a signal, which I don't have the figures in front of me, but that was kind of a different case because it oscillated back and forth between two frequencies.
		This one locked on one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's also fascinating.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Lear.
		Harry.
unidentified		Oh, thank you, Art.
		This is my first time getting to speak with you, for I've spoken with George many times, and I do recall this as a great privilege.
		Thank you so very much for the time.
		Dr. Lear, my question would be, do you get to keep the implants from your patients?
		Do they request them back?
		And does the government themselves, you know, somebody in some agency out there, request that you turn over some of the data that you receive from this?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Well, the patients do have to sign a form which relinquishes the custody of the object to ANS research.
		Now, at the same token, it's a two-way street because what we do is to guarantee that any data that's derived from looking at these objects in a scientific manner is to be shared with the individual that it came from and the rest of the world.
		So there is no ownership of it, so to speak.
		And no, I've not been asked by the government for anything in specific.
		The only thing I can say to that is I had a phone conversation once with Dr. Edgar Mitchell, the astronaut who I've never met before in my life.
		And I put in a call to him, returned my call, and I was, when I got on the phone, I said, hello, this is Dr. Lear.
		You probably don't know who I am.
		That's as far as I got.
		And he said, well, Dr. Lear, we all know who you are.
		So that sort of raised the hair on the back of my neck, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I take it these people get a free operation, and in return, they sign this form of release.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, we don't.
		There's no charge for anything that we do, except they have to get themselves to me.
		I would love to have enough funds to bring them from all over the world, but unfortunately, we can't do that.
		But all of the treatment, the surgery, the aftercare, the laboratory, the analysis is all paid for by our 501c3 nonprofit ANS research.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very good.
		First time, no, make that wildcard line one.
		You're on the air with Dr. Lear.
		Howie?
unidentified		Good morning, gentlemen.
		I heard an interview with Dr. Lear way back in about 1999.
		Dr. Lear, are you still in communication with General A?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
unidentified		There was an awful lot of information that kind of correlates with certain things as far as my family and things with my sister one deceased, but a sister still living.
		An awful lot of information that correlates.
		And I just needed as much updated information on General A and any new revelations and communication that you would have with him.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Well, the only thing I can tell you is that he has a very bad case of cancer, and we all are praying for him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm certainly sorry to hear that.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a very sad situation because I've known him for many, many years.
		But I've lost a number of friends to cancer.
		Every single person that was involved with that piece of material from the suspected Roswell crash site is dead, except me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are you doing health-wise, Doctor?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Well, Art.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		I have my good days and I have my bad days, but I keep going on and keep my mind off my bloody body and just, you know, go from one thing to the next.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
		First time caller line.
		Ryan, you're on the air with Dr. Lear.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Hi.
		This is Ryan, and I'm an elder with the Children of the Law of One, and I've been doing frequencies and stuff based on the harmonics based on the teachings of Atlantis.
		And what I have gotten based on kinesiology and muscle testing is that this frequency of about 30 megahertz is actually a frequency that deals with a certain nerve receptor that controls the human genome production, reproduction.
		And it would also basically, putting this in a woman who is fertile, would control the advancement of the human race through artificial evolution.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's quite a revelation.
		I don't know how to deal with that information.
		Do you, Doctor?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can maybe summarize that and pass it to my friend who's a geneticist for his opinion.
		I do know that we know now that each segment of DNA that we have, each individual DNA marker for each human being has a different electronic signal.
		So there could be something in what the gentleman is saying.
		You know, if you add a device, that's why I don't think these things are tracking devices, because an advanced civilization could certainly build an electronic device that if they wanted to, could tune in on anybody's DNA they want to do.
		They track you anywhere, probably in the universe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If not tracking, then manipulation?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Well, it could be manipulation, but I think they do support the idea that information is being derived from them, but I think that it has to do more with some kind of a genetic experiment.
		How well is it going?
		And there's basic information that's coming out, which is useful to some entity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fourth wildcard line, Jonathan, you are on the air with Dr. Lear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is Jonathan Reed.
unidentified		How are you doing, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
unidentified		Hey, Dr. Lear, you and I met up in Sacramento a few years ago, and I had the opportunity to meet you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is this Jonathan Reed Mills Hole, Jonathan Reed?
unidentified		Well, Jonathan Reed from Washington State, but not Mills Hole.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		This was my alien in the freezer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, that's right.
		I'm sorry.
		Of course.
		Not Jonathan Reed.
		Okay.
unidentified		And I just wanted to say, Roger, if there's funding necessary to do more research, that funding is available to you outside of the United States.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you can point me in that direction, that would be absolutely wonderful.
unidentified		You send me an email, and I will do my best.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's probably going to have to be the other way around, Jonathan.
		You're going to have to send him one.
		You've got his website.
unidentified		Great.
		I will get in touch with you.
		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's kind of sad that anything, so many things these days, Doctor, including news stories that are not exactly mainstream here.
		Funding research into certain areas all has to be done outside the United States for various reasons.
		It's sad.
unidentified		It's just to me very sad.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Look at Pons and Fleischman, who are happy and well in Switzerland being funded by Toyota.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Sad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		Sad is, I guess that's the only word for it.
		Wildcard Line 2, you're on the air with Dr. Lear.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello?
		Hello.
		This is Eden in Chula Vista, California, KOGO 600.
		This is just so incredible.
		I was just thinking, you know, I've been on hold for a bit, but I was just thinking what to tell you, Art.
		I've been listening to you since the first show I listened to you on.
		It was Jonathan Reed.
		It was the Jonathan Reed show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, what a coincidence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, we don't have a lot of time.
unidentified		Yeah, one quick comment.
		Could Dr. Liu give a little more information on that San Diego conference coming up?
		And in all of his researches, I mean, I've probably had enough things happen to me in the 50 years of my life that would fill one of your old four-hour shows.
		I don't have any kind of like alien abduction experiences that I remember, but I've had like from, you know, all the full range of things that you guys talk about, from, you know, seeing UFOs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
		We're going to have to hold it right there.
		We're out of time.
		On the San Diego conference, nobody's finding it on any of the websites, Doctor.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Very quickly.com, and it's at the Bahia Hotel, I believe, December the 2nd and 3rd.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you going to have something on your website about it?
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		I will shortly, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		So just keep checking the same websites, folks, and you'll run into it.
		Doctor, thank you so much for being here, as always.
		An incredibly fascinating show.
		Really fascinating.
		30.012732.
		Doctor, you have a good night.
roger leir ▲ ● ▼		Cosmic, good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
		That's it for tonight.
		Tomorrow night, we'll be back, folks, once again, as usual.
		Same time, same station.
		However, Dr. Sir Charles Schultz III will be my guest from Manila.

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