Greg Bishop and former AFOSI agent Richard Doty reveal the U.S. government’s 1979–1984 disinformation programs targeting UFO researchers like Paul Benowitz—convincing him of an "alien base" at Archoleta Peak—while tracking Soviet spy satellites near Area 51. Doty admits briefings on a 1951 Roswell extraterrestrial recovery, a 1964 White Sands "ETV" agreement, and a "yellow book" with alien history, though he claims no direct knowledge of abductions. Skepticism persists over claims like JFK’s assassination for UFO disclosure, but Doty’s verified details—including Corso’s Roswell confirmation—suggest deep secrecy to protect advanced extraterrestrial tech. [Automatically generated summary]
Hi desert and the great American Southwest Happy Do you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the world's time, all of them.
unidentified
Covered like a great warm blanket by this program.
Coast Coast Mamma by Martin, my pleasure and honor, of course, to be escorting you through the weekend.
Many, many, many of you, after the decorations of the amount of rain I made the weird last week, said, hey Martin, why don't you go take a picture of the desert?
So I went to a little BLM land.
That's unattended land.
Government landed up here.
Immediately adjacent to my home and took a photograph.
And that is what you will find now on my webcam.
Mart's webcam now.
It's a pretty amazing picture.
You've got to understand where I'm located is about 20 miles from the Valley of Death.
Death Valley.
And so there you have it.
The picture is worth a thousand words.
I told you we had a lot of rain.
Take a look at that.
It's like a golf course.
All right.
The boxing saga, Million Dollar Baby, seems to have won the Academy Awards Heavyweight Sunday, claiming Best Picture and three other trophies, including honors for director Clint Eastwood, lead actress Hilary Swank, and supporting actor Morgan Freeman.
Martin Scroces, the aviator, came away with most Oscars.
It's five awards, including the supporting actress prize for Kate Blanchett.
So there you have it.
Not too many surprises, really.
The man arrested on suspicion of being the BTK serial killer has confessed to at least six of the killings and might be responsible for as many as 13 more, including one, by the way, that could carry the death penalty.
Iraqi officials said Sunday that Syria captured and handed over Saddam Hussein's half-brother, a most wanted leader in the Sunni-based insurgency, ending months now of Syrian denials that it was harboring fugitives from the ousted Saddam regime.
So there you go, they had his half-brother all along.
Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon threatened Sunday to freeze peace efforts if the Palestinian leadership doesn't crack down on militant groups after a weekend suicide bombing in Tel Aviv that killed four Israelis and wounded dozens.
Searchers spent a fourth day scouring roads and looking for that little nine-year-old Jessica Marie Lunsford last seen Wednesday night in her bedroom.
Father discovered she was missing next morning.
Police have said a door at the home was unlocked and one of the third graders' dolls also gone.
Iran and Russia ignored U.S. objections, and it seems they have now signed a nuclear fuel agreement.
They did that today.
It is a key to bringing Tehran's first reactor online by mid-2006.
Worth asking, I suppose, why the Iranians need or would want a nuclear reactor?
Well, you might say they need power too.
Well, they have more oil than just about any of us, so why do they need nuclear power?
There's an obvious answer to that.
In a moment, a little of the other news, there's a headline here that worries me, though it comes from the India Daily.
The headline says, evidence of extreme disturbance in Earth's core.
you We are going to be going to open lines very quickly if you have something of intense interest to the audience.
I think this is of intense interest.
Now, bear in mind, it comes from the India Daily.
A lot of times you have to go out of the country to get news that you're definitely not going to get here.
So I can't vouch for it, but I can vouch for the fact that it is from that source.
And it is translated, so excuse any apparent disturbance in context here.
Geologists in India and the rest of the world are receiving signals of a very disturbed mantle and core of the Earth.
According to some computer models, the outer core and the mantle is getting extremely heated.
This can cause extreme tension on the Earth's crust and tectonic plates.
The net result can be increased earthquakes and volcanoes.
The reports are coming from virtually every continent and say the volcanoes, geysers, and mud volcanoes are all ready to explode.
According to the scientists, the mantle viscosity is going down due to increased temperature.
The outer core is showing signs of molecular agitation.
I felt a little of that myself, I think.
The inner core is also showing strange signs.
According to some contemporary geoscience theories, the Earth's iron core formed with a large share of radioactive uranium, which combined with sulfur to make an extra dense compound.
Now, the uranium settled to the center of the core where it eventually formed a mass big enough to sustain a supercritical nuclear reactor.
Not just that, but it functions as a breeder reactor, creating more nuclear fuel than it burns.
This provides the energy needed to generate the geomagnetic field.
That is, in essence, the theory of geomagnetism and gravity.
If the reactor, for some reason, is disturbed, it can cause major problems and eventually explode.
Scientists believe chances of that are very remote, although not impossible.
And these are.
This may be evidence, they suggest, in our solar system.
They say there once was another planet, and it exploded and caused major problems for Earth and Mars millions of years back.
So there you have it.
Problems, disturbances in the Earth's core.
I hardly ever get to read stories like that.
And then this.
Straight from Matt Drudge before I went on the air.
Headline is, Mysterious Smell Hangs Over Chicago.
Calls pour into 911 Center.
Mysterious odor.
Hundreds of people reported a mysterious and foul odor in the air throughout Chicago.
Sunday, calls came from the south side to the north side of Chicago and even beyond.
Chicago's 911 Center on West Madison Street fielded many of the calls Saturday night and Sunday morning on the mysterious odor in the city of Chicago.
When Edison Park resident Debbie Usher went out to get the paper Sunday morning, she smelled something.
She said, quote, I came outside to get the newspaper and noticed a strong, very strong smell of gas.
At least that's what I thought it smelled like.
And the northwest side wasn't the only place Chicagoans noticed the foul and strange odor.
Police officers coming and going to and from headquarters at 35th and Michigan smelled it.
And as far south as the Hegwish neighborhood, people thought some kind of fuel might have been spilled or something smelled like, I don't know, kerosene or, you know, a grassy smell.
So any of you in Chicago who might be able to update us on this foul infestation that you're apparently suffering, I'd enjoy getting some Chicago calls.
Can any of you still smell it?
And do you wish to point the finger of blame at anything or, well, anybody?
Well, again, what the listeners on Coast would like to have and what the general public is able to digest are two entirely different things.
It's a very bright audience.
They're very well informed.
unidentified
Exactly.
And I think Peter Jennings probably believes in what he was doing more than he might have seen during that second time when he was running down 1947 in Roswell.
I think that was a pound of flesh that got collected for getting that thing on the air.
And I don't think he will miss bringing us a second program.
Yeah, anyway, he was in a car wreck, and there was two other grandchildren in the car with him, and it was one other grandchild that was hurt, but the one that was in the wreck, he got his seat belt went and ripped his aorta, and only got about a little over half of his intestines left.
But he told me a story without anybody saying anything to him about something that happened to him.
Well, I'm not sure that there would be a distance thing.
In other words, I'm sure that no matter where that had occurred to him, they would have shown whether or not it was close to the cemetery.
But, you know, out of the mouths of babes.
And I think that's one of the things that gives me, I don't know, some of the most hope when I hear stories about children that have been at NDEs and describe things simply absolutely impossible for them to have known.
You know, period clothing, that sort of thing.
Relatives, accurate descriptions of relatives they have never seen, that sort of thing.
It seems like pretty good evidence and maybe as good as we're ever going to get.
I just want to bring to your attention, you may have already discussed this already, I don't know, but last night you had a call from a young lady that said she had given you some information about the BTK, I think, BTK killer.
And I just wanted to just make two little comments, or actually just a comment and a suggestion.
The first, I agree with you as far as the ABC special.
I do think that they could have been a little more open-minded, but I suppose they are trying to reach every teach a few people that don't know much of anything about UFOs what it really is all about.
Otherwise, though, contrary to what a lot of ufology had to say and people in ufology, I thought it was a good first step.
unidentified
Well, the other thing I wanted to suggest, either I know that sometimes you and George Norre dedicate a single line to whatever you may be looking for out there.
I don't know if this has been done, but have you ever considered opening up a line exclusively for people, your listeners out there, who may at this moment be seeing a UFO in the sky and get a live description?
As a matter of fact, part of the UFO show you saw, the ABC show, was about a night that we got call after call after call after call about the Phoenix lights.
You see, I came on at 10 o'clock hour time, and the whole thing was just going absolutely berserk.
I mean, every phone line was lit up with people who were seeing it, that sort of thing.
But yes, I suppose one could open a line for those who are seeing one at the moment.
Have you ever spoken to anybody in reference to maybe what was the temperature on planet Earth during prehistoric time, during dinosaurs, when they were roaming the Earth?
Maybe we were warming back up to that temperature.
Now remember, with this program, as with many things that you see in the media or hear in the media on radio, some of it is going to be true and some of it is going to be BS.
And it's frankly up to you to separate in your mind what you think is real and not.
But I'm telling you straight out and up front that not all of what you hear here is absolutely true.
It's simply not.
unidentified
Well, I have something to tell you, my husband was taken up in Virginia back in the 60s.
Then they appeared again at our home down south.
They appeared in the middle of the night inside our home.
According to the India Daily, something wrong, an extreme disturbance in the Earth's core, and then, according to, I believe it's Channel 9 news in Chicago, a foul and mysterious odor overhanging all of Chicago.
you you Well, as I said at the top of the hour, Greg Bishop is going to be here, and he's going to be talking a whole lot about UFOs, and he is going to bring a surprise witness, a man who has never talked publicly before.
Now, this might not happen, mind you.
It might not happen.
But I'm not even going to give his name right now.
I'm going to be sure they want to give his name, that he wants to actually give his name.
But somebody who worked for the Air Force Office of Special Investigation at the OSI and apparently specialized in disinformation.
Disinformation.
This could potentially be very interesting.
We shall see.
Wildcard Line, you're on the air, hi.
unidentified
Hi.
Yeah, it was great to see you on that show, and your wife is beautiful.
I was calling because something happened when I called in last night on the wildcard line, and I didn't get to ask my question of your guest about nanotechnology.
I thought maybe I'd just see what you thought about it.
And how there's, you know, a downside and an upside and all that.
But what worried me more than the gray goo and stuff like that was like, if we all merge with each other and merge with machines, number one, there would probably need to be some programming in there having to do with ethics.
And number two, if that was done, would it mean the end of free will as we know it?
I don't know what I've done recently that scared me more than, I mean, he was a very cheerful fellow, I guess.
Very cheerful.
But frankly, when it got down to the part where he said the only way that humanity will be able to combat nanotechnology and the misuse of it is to itself, humanity itself turn into part machine, that began to get to me a little bit.
Now, you mean in 1948 they would have lied, but well, now they would never lie.
unidentified
Yeah, but the timeframe, what the psychosis was ready for now.
But if you look at today the way the international community is coming together, which is a necessity to actually begin to think that we're not, that there's a greater community out there universally, we need to understand that as the world sort of comes together, maybe that's the step.
I mean, I remember from last week they said, you know, stay healthy.
Part of that might be the fact that the world is coming together.
Yeah, until finally we become one world and we can interact in a world where there's good and bad aliens, there's friend and foe, and we can act together.
We can't have, you know, like the Muslims saying, okay, I hate the Jews so much that I'm ready to kill all humanity.
And this is a place where we have seen a few strange things similar to what you and Ramona have seen to particular objects.
I myself was in the United States Air Force at Norton Air Force Base in the past.
I think I can tell the difference between something usual and something unusual.
Yes.
I wanted to talk to you a little bit about the program on ABCs the other night documentary.
And I had a little bit different take on what they said about Roswell.
I believe that the way I heard it, and I had to think about this, they said, from what I understood, people didn't get out of Roswell what they had hoped to as far as proof that UFOs existed.
They said that there was a, I did hear them say that a lot of people did think it was a myth and that anybody who thought that they were going to get proof out of it did not get out of it what they wanted to.
Well, it's one place, in my opinion, the program fell flat on its face.
unidentified
I do agree with you on that.
But I also wanted to point out that I believe it was in 2003, and MSNBC ran this program earlier in the week, probably because of the UFO seeing his believing on ABC.
Bryant Gumbel did a very in-depth two-hour program on Roswell.
And they gave a lot of different angles on Roswell and information from all sides and left you, the viewer, to decide what you wanted to out of all that information.
called last week and they gave me some shenanigans run around that you weren't there but I heard you and I know you were there and I think they would just Well, you see.
I knew it was you, and the man told me it was some tomfoolery going on.
My name is Louise, and I will not tell you anything more specific because I know, well, the reason I'm calling, my husband, who's deceased, worked for Naval Intelligence many, many years ago.
And I know that some of the projects he worked on dealt with UFOs and aliens, but he wouldn't even discuss certain things with me.
But I believe that even today, that the aliens are among us.
Hey, I just wanted to let you know, I'm from Northern California, and there's a mountain in Lake County, California.
It's called Mount Canocti.
Now, the weird thing about this mountain is it's an extinct volcano.
The strange thing is that they know it's hollow inside.
Now, no one's been able to find the entrance to this volcano.
And the thing that piqued my interest about this is that there was a couple scientists that were actually on this mountain looking for the entrance to it, and they have the permission of the owners of the land.
Then all of a sudden, for no reason, they kicked them off the property and they forbid anybody to look for the entrance to this mountain.
I think he's probably suggesting the rest of us look into it.
I've always been fascinated, as you know, with very deep holes in the ground, tunnels, the inside of mountains, absolutely intrigued, but never sufficiently to go scurrying down a rope, you know, into some dark pit or something.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
unidentified
Yeah, hi, Art.
This is Jim from Fall Lauderdale listening on WIOD.
Well, everything you were saying last minute, and you saying the bad scenario could be scary, and watching the Stargate show, and they take over, they can be one-celled bots, or they can form giant, they get together and can form giant big things and take over the ships and all.
But it seemed like it was very similar to what he was talking about last night.
Got a feeling that what you're going to hear tonight, ABC wouldn't dare put on the air.
They wouldn't dare.
Or if they did, that would be the 10th show down the line.
Tonight, Greg Bishop publishes and edits the Excluded Middle.
It's a journal of UFOs, conspiracy, research, psychedelia, and new science.
His reports, interviews, and Features have appeared in several national publications.
Greg has spoken publicly at various conferences and meetings, including most recently the first annual UFO Crash Retrieval Conference in Las Vegas and the Ancient Science and Modern Secrets Conference in December of 2004.
He has also appeared on many radio and television and internet interview programs.
For two years, he was host, engineer, and DJ for The Hungry Ghost, a radio show of interviews and music airing on Pirate FM station, KBLT in Los Angeles.
Pirate, huh?
His current show, Radio...
Missy Ostro, I guess, can be heard on Sundays from 8 to 10 p.m.
at www.killradio.org.
That's another, I think that's another pirate operation.
creation.
Very interesting.
You've never heard him on Coast to Coast AM, but you will in a moment.
Actually, that was when I was in the United States Air Force.
Fortunately, by the time I told that story, why the Statute of Limitations had long since expired.
But yes, we did it.
It was a long story, and it was a lot of fun.
So there you are, Greg.
You've been with the Pirates, huh?
unidentified
Yes.
It was quite interesting.
I had a very late-night show.
I did interviews and music for a little over two years until the FCC finally caught up with us and took the equipment and said, you can either, to the person that was running the station, said, you can either give us your equipment or we can take you to court and you might have to pay a fine of something like $10,000 or $15,000.
At any rate, you must have, I don't know, to be on pirate radio, it must mean that you had something to say that was not, well, exactly mainstream, perhaps.
unidentified
Yeah, it was, you know, it's basically what you do on your show with the open lines, et cetera, except we could say, do anything we wanted.
There was absolutely no restriction because obviously we weren't licensed.
I don't exactly know how I got interested, but I do remember when I was a kid, my father used to take us to the library every week and say, get as many books as you want, read them all, and bring them, and we'll bring them back next week.
And we just did this over and over.
And for some reason, and I can't really tell why, I cleared out all the UFO and Paranormal and Cryptozoology shelves in one library.
We went to another library and I cleared all those shelves out over the course of a year or so.
And then I went back to the first library and did it again.
And somewhere along the line, something caught your eye.
unidentified
Yeah, it's funny, though, because I was interested in it up to probably about junior high school, and then it kind of dropped out of my life until after I graduated college, and I had a very tempestuous period, and for some reason, the subject came rushing back to me like it wouldn't be denied.
It was very strange, and that was in 1988, and since then, that's what I've been interested in.
Yeah, I believe he said it was all right to give his name, but I'll just let him do it because I want to make absolutely sure that's what he wants to do because he hasn't talked anywhere to anyone publicly.
What was it about Paul Benowitz that fascinated you?
unidentified
Well, that's kind of a long story.
However, what happened to Paul Benowitz, I will tell you the story of Paul Benowitz, is that he lived next to Kirtland Air Force Base in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
And around 1979, he started noticing strange lights flying around the base doing things that airplanes normally couldn't do.
This is common around military bases.
However, he started filming them, and I think videotaping them if he had some sort of videotape set up.
And he also started picking up signals from the base, radio signals.
I don't know what band these were on, what exactly the messages contained or what the transmissions were.
There were a few guesses I made in the book.
But he began to think that these lights combined with these signals had something to do with aliens being around the base.
So he made an effort to contact the Air Force and say, do you know you have these things flying around your base and they're sending out these signals that are very strange.
They seem like bursts of information.
And do you know about this?
And as soon as he called up the Air Force, they were, you know, they get crank calls all the time.
So they questioned him a little bit and started to realize that he might be seeing something that he shouldn't.
Actually, first, they had this person we're going to talk to go out to his house and try and figure out what it was he was seeing, what possibly he had seen, and what he might be doing with it.
And based on that information, they called him in for a meeting at the Air Force Base with a few of the brass and the intelligence people and other people who were doing work on the base.
I think it was in early 1980, the first half of 1980.
He came onto the base and started to give this presentation.
Now, I was not able to talk to anybody who was at this presentation.
However, I did talk to a man in the NSA, National Security Agency, who talked to somebody who was at this meeting.
I said, so when Paul Benowitz came in to do this, to give this presentation, what happened?
Well, in the first place, actually, they thought he might have something because he wasn't just some Joe Schmo.
He was an electrical physicist, and he had his own company, Thunder Scientific, which manufactured humidity and temperature calibration and things like that for actually for military contractors, among others.
So they thought maybe that his word would carry a little bit more weight when he started describing these things.
So this man that was at the meeting said that Benowitz started giving his presentation and started off very slowly and then started in with his, I think these are aliens and alien ships flying around your base and I think they're trying to communicate with each other or us and I'd like to know what you're doing about it or if you know anything about it.
And the strange thing was that this man told me was that a lot of people, he said maybe there were maybe 20 people at the meeting to begin with.
And by the time Benowitz got finished, there were two or three.
That would have been my initial guess, Greg, that it was something at Kirtland going on.
I mean, hello, it's an Air Force base, probably doing experimental things.
Why wouldn't that be Hockham's razor, the very first conclusion anybody would come to?
unidentified
Well, because Benowitz was, while he had this business, and he was very good at what he did, and he was a very good electrical physicist, a lot of people have said this, while he was a very intelligent person.
And granted, those lights flying around, other people saw them, didn't really say anything about them, or if they did, they therefore said, oh, don't worry about it.
And people just generally shut up.
But Benowitz was very interested because he was Basically, a ufologist or very interested in UFOs anyway.
And he became convinced single-mindedly that this was what was going on, and nobody could tell him any different.
All right, so at the very end of this story, though, it was things going on at Kirtland or what?
unidentified
Yeah, there were things going on there.
There were quite a few different projects.
I was able to identify maybe two or three of them that were going on, which were things he was directly looking at, and they didn't want him looking at, because if he could see these things, then anybody could.
And this was still in the middle of the Cold War, right at the beginning of the Reagan era, 79, 80 there.
One of the things they were doing there, I'm giving away the book now.
But one of the things they were doing there was there's a very great story about how I found this out, which we'll get into later, partially found this out.
But one of the things they were doing there was tracking Soviet spy satellites.
Because these things would come over, you know, over the base, over the United States all the time.
You've seen, you know, after the Soviet Union fell, people were, the KGB or somebody were selling satellite pictures of various places, including Area 51.
They'd come over the United States, generally during the day, I think, because that's where you could see things, and take pictures of the base.
The U.S. government, the Air Force, the Defense Intelligence Agency specifically knew that they were doing this, and they wanted to find out how they could possibly foil this espionage, this spying.
So they had agents in the Soviet Union.
A lot of people know this.
A lot of Soviet agents were here.
A lot of our agents were in the Soviet Union posing as citizens, doing various things and getting close to defense projects or somewhere in the vicinity of them so that they could report back on them.
But what they found out was how these satellites worked.
And they sent back, through various channels, sent back information on these satellites.
So the people at Kirtland were basically able to back engineer what was going on or at least engineer a way to track these things and eventually to even control them.
Now, back in 1979, this is before Bud Hopkins' book had come out, this was fairly new, fairly new kind of thing for people to be investigating.
As we know, it might have been going on for quite a long time.
However, this woman called the New Mexico State Police the next day to try and report it, find out what had happened, if anybody else had seen it.
As it turns out, about 10 or 15 years later, somebody else had seen these craft.
And her husband, it was a woman, her husband actually was in the New Mexico State Police.
However, she called the New Mexico State Police.
They didn't really know what to do with it.
However, they did know of some guy that was interested.
One of their officers was interested in this kind of phenomena, what was going on, and cattle being mutilated by whoever or whatever does it.
And this was Gabe Valdez, who you probably have heard of.
He was a police officer near Dulcie, New Mexico, where there had been a lot of cattle mutilations and strange lights flying around.
So apparently people in the New Mexico State Police knew Gabe Valdez as the weird stuff guy.
So they referred this woman, Myrna, to him.
And Gabe Valdez had actually met Paul Benowitz at a cattle mutilation conference that the state senator Harrison Schmidt had convened about a year before.
We have talked about Paul Benowitz and what he was seeing.
The Air Force became concerned about what he was seeing because it might compromise some things that they had going on at the base, at Kirtland Air Force Base.
And he kept telling them that it was aliens, and surprisingly enough, they didn't tell him any different.
And eventually, it ended up with him in a mental hospital for about three months in about 1988.
And a lot of these stories he was told, and a lot of stories he came up with that were bolstered by the Air Force intelligence people and to some extent the NSA, ended up as part of the UFO lore and rumor mill through the 80s and up even to today.
And the government did not try to dissuade him from this because they wanted to know, intelligence specifically, they wanted to know what he knew, how he knew it, who he might be talking to or who was listening to him, and how they could protect against that in the future.
Because if you have somebody, just a regular citizen, albeit a fairly intelligent one, doing this, then just about anybody could, including who they were very concerned about, which was the Soviets at the time.
I was informed that Paul Benowitz had called the base and reported some strange occurrences that were happening near Manzano Base, which was a base within Kirtland Air Force Base.
Housing, at that time, it was sensitive to say, but now it can be disclosed.
It was housed at nuclear weapons, one of the probably the largest nuclear weapon storage areas in the southwest.
And it took some years on the base, and eventually the information got to our office.
I was the counterintelligence officer of the base.
The information got to my desk, and I briefed my commander, And we sent a little message up to headquarters, and we were tasked with obtaining all the information we could from Paul.
He claimed he saw lights, flashing lights, objects flying around Manzano.
He claimed he saw a light shooting out of the ground, into the sky, and then from the sky down into the base.
And so what he took upon himself to do was take pictures and use some electronic monitoring equipment to monitor these strange occurrences, these lights and other things that he was seeing.
And I brought another person along because I wasn't the technical person to understand the electronics that he had, but this other person was and could understand what he had.
And what we did was we viewed everything, we interviewed him, and then we went back and we made a report and we sent it up to headquarters.
The report was that this person had sufficient knowledge and the right equipment to tap into sensitive communications equipment and sensitive projects that was occurring on Kirtland.
So here we've got a man who thought that there were aliens among us, as it were, and right in his backyard and over the Air Force base that you were working for.
We actually did, we had two, we had a two-tier way of doing this.
The first thing we did was we became very interested in everything he had.
We wanted him to think that we were very, very concerned with everything that he had.
In fact, at some point later on, NSA became involved in this because they were extremely interested in some of the equipment that he had because he was actually tapping into a particular type of communications that he shouldn't have been able to do.
So we became very, very good friends, and that's one thing you do in counterintelligence, become friends with a person, you start vetting him, And then eventually you start feeding them information.
And what we did was we convinced him that what he was picking up wasn't anything classified from the base, but in fact, it probably was of alien origin.
He had the forethought already that what he was picking up, he had an idea.
Initially, he thought maybe it was classified.
He told us, listen, if I tapped into something, let me know.
Well, we weren't going to do that because we don't know who his friends were.
And we couldn't really, he wasn't a trusted person.
So what we did was we said, well, I think what you tapped into is something unknown.
So let's work together on this, Paul.
So we did.
And what we did was we just, we were using his own, everything that he gathered, and we were just turning it around and making him, convincing him what he was looking at was, wasn't anything from the base, but it was alien in origin.
Well, eventually down the road, he claimed that there was an alien base at Archoleta Peak or Archoleta Mountain up near Dulce, New Mexico, in the northern portion of New Mexico.
He would fly up there and he would photograph things.
And he was convinced that the things that he was photographing was actually an alien base.
So what we did was we went ahead and fortified his thought by putting a fence up there around certain things, bringing in some helicopters from Fort Carson, Colorado Army helicopters, which, by the way, they were using that area as a training base also.
I mean, it was a classified, at that time, it's not anymore, but at that time it was a classified training area for special operations missions.
And they were up there, they were using that area.
So there was already helicopters flying around up there.
It's easier for us to have done it that way than to get a search warrant and a seizure warrant and seize all his property, seize his equipment, and what would that do?
At least at that time, I'm out of the business now and I haven't been out for a long time.
But I know during the 60s and 70s and into the 80s, it was widespread.
It was a primary tactic used by U.S. intelligence for a number of things.
We're not just talking about UFOs or aliens.
We talk about a lot of different things.
You can use disinformation to disinform anyone about anything if you play your cards right.
Now, one thing about disinformation, and this wasn't the only operation we did against somebody with UFO information, one of the things is giving them enough information, some information that is credible for them to lead them along the path.
There are some myths that float over the base, and they still do.
I mean, there's people, especially the old-timers that live around there, they still think that there's underground base, and they still think that there's a UFO hidden inside Monzana.
And we tried, you know, I visited Paul, well, right up until I think probably eight months before his death, I became friends with him, took him to dinner, and he never I tried to talk to him, I tried to talk him away from that subject, and he was totally convinced.
Now, unfortunately, during this time period, Paul became friends with some other people within the community, within the UFO community, and they were reinforcing on him that it was all true.
Everything A man is blowing mixing, double fall time.
Feel alright when you hear the music break Music Well now you step inside, but you don't see too many things in coming out of the rain, baby, the jazz go down.
You keep on trying, walking You really don't know why.
Baby, when you need a smile, you'll never shadow in the way.
You'll come to me.
Baby, you'll see.
The love you pretty, baby, was gonna help me through the night.
The love you pretty, mama, was always left to me.
But I do.
We're gonna love you, love you.
We're gonna love you.
But I do.
We're gonna love you, love you.
We're gonna love you.
We're gonna love you.
To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
To talk with Art Bell from East to the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
From West to the Rockies, call ARC at 800-618-8255.
International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country spread access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
My guest is Greg Bishop, and he has brought with him Richard Doughty, who was with the OSI Office of Special Investigation and Apparently DIS Information.
Target number two to be discussed.
He dropped the name Linda Howe a few moments ago, and of course, we just can't let that go, so we'll be right back.
Well, as I was saying, in the first hour, you just never know what you can run into on talk radio.
It's just, it's one of those wild things.
It's not like any other medium in the world.
Here, we've run straight into a disinformation agent.
And I want to make sure that I've got your name.
I'm pronouncing your name correctly.
Is it Richard Doty?
That is correct.
Richard, it's not every day you get to talk to somebody who freely admits they're a disinformation specialist.
Anyway, you dropped the name Linda Moulton Howell before the break.
We tried to sell her the promise that we were going to assist her with information, that we were going to actually provide her with some legitimate information for her special.
But what we were doing was delaying it.
Now, we also had an operation, the government, not just me, I didn't have anything to do with this other operation, with another entity on the East Coast, with one of the broadcasting companies.
And they were doing something different there, which I'm not really privy to what they were doing there.
I mean, I have had a number of contacts with Linda Howell over the years, and she's aware of this.
But what we were also trying to do was we were trying to, she was involved with some other things, some other research pertaining to the UFO, and we were trying to feed her information to lead her astray.
Well, Richard, you must know a lot more about this.
In other words, if you're trying to get Linda to delay release of a special about animal mutilations, maybe you can tell me something about animal mutilations.
Or did your job not include the need to know that?
My job did not have anything to do with, well, I didn't have a specific knowledge at that time to understand what the government was doing with cattle.
Only, only there was a small operation, and I learned this later.
I had no official knowledge of this during the time.
I didn't have a clearance for it then.
I learned this later.
I learned this after I got out of OSI.
In fact, I was a civilian when I learned this, and I learned this in a room with six or seven other intelligence officers who were also retired and telling stories.
All right, maybe you can explain the part of this that I've never been able to grasp, Richard, and that is why would the government need to do this to farmers' cows when they could easily get their own cows?
It's again, it stemmed around wanting, the government was doing this, but they wanted everybody to think it was something else, some other entity doing it.
Is there any doubt in your mind that our government is still doing exactly that there's somebody doing Richard Dodie's past job in today's armed services?
There's too much information that's already been readily available, and there's too much information that hasn't been released yet that a lot of people with intelligence know about that can show that Roswell wasn't in the end.
Roswell actually happened.
unidentified
Yes, but what was it that happened according to these sources and people you know?
One of the things that happened to me in early 1979, I was briefed in to this counterintelligence program.
In order to run a disinformation program, you have to know the truth.
And we were briefed in, and we were given a certain level of clearance that gave us access to the past history of Earth's visitation by extraterrestrials.
Well, there was another part of this that was occurring within HBO by some other people that, you know, another part of that operation was some intelligence people were talking to HBO, and they were doing something different through HBO.
So it all, and the final outcome, they dropped it because of the footage that we promised her.
unidentified
They had done this before to Robert Emmeneger in the late 70s when they were doing a documentary.
And I haven't yet figured out where to put you and Greg.
unidentified
It's a question I asked Richard very early on.
you know when you that they came in and embedded you on this information on u_f_ o_s_ in the government involvement with them how do you know they weren't disinforming you because you said you never saw an alien body or a In fact, I would like to understand how that vetting went.
There were a number of people that dropped out of this program because they just couldn't handle it because of either a personality conflict or a religious conflict or something else.
Because 25 years have passed, and this brings up another point.
I sat in a room with several OSI officials some years ago, and I voiced my concern about the fact that why can't you tell the truth now after all these years?
There's no reason why the government can't tell the truth.
It really can't.
And they said, well, we're not going to tell the truth.
We can't tell the truth.
There's a lot of reasons why.
I said, but you're disinforming everybody.
Even today, especially the mogul thing about Roswell, that's a bunch of baloney.
And now, you're telling me that the government doesn't have anything, so I'm going to go out and tell them, yes, the government does have it.
Some years ago, I was on a investigation on it.
The FBI did an investigation on it because of the MJ-12 document from 88 or 89.
If you let me go into Pentagon right now, I can take you to where these documents and this information about the UFOs, about the extraterrestrial visitation of Earth is.
You just let me go there.
If you don't think it's there, then you don't have anything to hide.
And only on talk radio do you stumble into something like this.
Greg Bishop and Richard Toby are my guests.
Richard is a self-admitted disinformation agent, or certainly was.
I had a call during the break, a very interesting call during the break, from none other than Ed Daines.
And while he didn't want to go on the air, he affirmed that, oh, yes, those lies are told, and those lies have little nuggets of truth that are expanded upon and then twisted, as any really good lie is.
And the government does this to protect the programs that they have ongoing.
I live in Los Angeles where Bill does, and I see him probably once every few weeks.
He retired from ufology after making the announcement that he had become an asset to the Air Force Intelligence Service, and ufology kind of turned on him at that point.
That was in Las Vegas at the MUFON Convention in 1989.
He admitted that he had become an asset to Air Force intelligence.
unidentified
Yes, it's an interesting story, too, because he was recruited as an insider in the UFO community who could tell the Air Force what people were thinking, what they were talking about, what they thought things were.
You know, what are these lights?
What do people think?
Do they think they're aliens?
Do they think they're some kind of airplane or what?
Anyways, I met Bill, and all my job was to just make contact with him, get some information, and tell him that I was a friend of the person in Washington, which we did.
And then that was it as far as I went.
But then I later became involved in this operation because Bill came back to me because he said, hey, I got some information here, and this information is bull.
And he wanted me to check it.
Well, the information that he'd gotten from Washington was, in fact, bull.
But I didn't know that it was given to him in a disinformation operation until I contacted headquarters.
And then I found out that, yeah, they were running him as an asset.
They were feeding him, like Greg said, they were feeding him with this information.
But Bill was pretty smart.
unidentified
Yeah, this was a test.
He brought it back.
And the person he gave it to, I thought it was, he told me it was you and this DIA man, but maybe it wasn't.
Anyway, he said that as soon as he said this is a load of BS, none of these people exist, this DIA man said, good, you pass the test.
What they wanted to do was find somebody who wouldn't immediately go start spouting this big discovery to a bunch of ufologists to check up on it first, be careful about what he said, be careful about what he did, and go about it as an investigator would to find out if something was true before they said anything about it.
A lot of people believe that the U.S. government is engaging in a slow-release campaign of information about UFOs and the presence of extraterrestrials on Earth.
In fact, during my briefing way back in 1979, that was made aware to us that the government had tried to in the early 50s.
And one of the first movies where the government actually cooperated with the movie industry was The Day the Earth Stood Still.
I think it was in 50, whatever, one or two, whatever.
And then they cooperated, in fact, they had placed Air Force intelligence people with some knowledge as an aide or an advisor to some motion picture companies making movies about the subject.
And they were trying to condition the public for a release.
But unfortunately, I guess somewhere along the line, different administrations within the government decided that wasn't a wise idea.
Yes, that's what we were told in the briefing, that eventually that the and I can remember growing up, I was, let me say this, I was never interested in the subject of UFOs growing up.
I had that, not the slightest interest.
My brother, who I roomed with, he was the fanatic.
He had these old true magazines.
He would read everything that he could get his hands on about the subject.
And I never had any interest in him.
Right up to the time that I was briefed in 1979, I had no interest in the subject.
why you there must be some When I got to Kirtland, I was assigned as a counterintelligence officer for the base because I went through some special training.
And I had been briefed in a number of different programs in order to know.
I had different levels of security clearances in order to know what was going on at Kirtland Air Force Base.
And there was a huge number of classified projects going on at Kirtland.
At Kirtland, the Air Force Weapons Laboratory at Sandia Laboratories, up at Los Alamos.
And I had to know what these projects were in order to safeguard them.
I think probably a good number of prominent ufologists were approached at one time or the other.
And probably some of them took debate and some of them said, you know, screw you, walk away.
And one of the things I want to say about Linda is that operation against Linda wasn't a total success because our secondary mission was to get her away from the subject.
And what she did was she turned around and developed her own sources in high-level places within a government.
And one of them I eventually found out, but all during my contacts with Linda, I would give her information and she would come back to me and she'd say, Rick, this is baloney.
And I'd look at her like, wait a minute, you're not supposed to say that.
And then I'd go back and do some checking and find out that, hey, she had some kind of verification someplace.
We got a leak here in a system.
And I found out some years later that she had some very, very high-level sources herself.
What I am concerned about, though, is ufology is having a difficult enough time, as it is, keeping stories straight.
And if the government is out there intentionally twisting them and they've approached more high-level people in ufology than not, then you have to worry about the general credibility of a lot of the stories that you're told.
And I hear also information from some of your guests that was and probably still is highly, highly classified, especially some of these reverse engineering operations that are the antimatter ones that started back in the 70s and 80s that I was involved with trying to protect.
And some of these other high-tech operations that I hear on your show that I'm saying, wow, this stuff is still classified, I thought, but these people know about it.
We ran an operation in Europe against the Soviets who was trying to, there was a number of Soviets who were trying to portray themselves as UFO experts, and they were KGB, but they were trying to get into the UFO community.
Because Phil Kalas, in the time period that I was involved in the disinformation or the counterintelligence arena, I didn't know Phil Kalas.
I didn't meet him until afterwards.
And then Phil Klass started spreading all these lies about me, saying I'd gotten trouble in Europe, I was court-martialed, all these things with absolutely no credibility.
But what I found later was that he was doing this at the direction of some government people trying to discredit me because I was going to go forth.
He actually was portrayed, almost depicted perfectly on that program back in, I think, in 1988, Cover-Up Live, yeah.
In fact, his actual diagram was provided to a source through Warrior Patterson.
I mean, that was right there on the television.
And he died in 1951.
unidentified
Well, that whole show was a whole disinformation operation.
Because at the end, I can't, Robert Collins or somebody there, one of the other agents that was in shadow there with the voice disguise said that the aliens like Tibetan music and strawberry ice cream.
And at that point, everybody shut down and said this is really good.
The mountains high and the valley's so deep Can't get across to the other side Don't you give up and don't you cry Don't you give up and don't you cry Who's the other time?
The End you you
Let's do it for real.
Wanna take a ride?
To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free 800-825-5033.
From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
International callers may reach ART by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
Yeah, a lot of the information is to protect technology.
There's some things that we got from them, from our visitors that we're trying to protect, and that has to be safeguarded.
And I agree with that.
But I don't agree that just the mere fact that we were visited should be held up.
So that Rick and Florida agree that some of that should be released.
in that area of richard how do you get a little pregnant Well, if they would have done, if the government would have done what they should have done back in the 50s by the slow release of the information and conditioning the public, we wouldn't have that problem today.
It was our history, United States history of involvement with the ETB.
And let me tell you something.
There was one of your guests one time some years ago, I don't know exactly how long ago I was listening to it, that got it right.
If you look at government, which most of our, which are still classified, most of the government documents, they don't refer to this as UFOs or some of the other things that you're reading today.
The official government terminology was ETV, extraterrestrial visitation.
Linda Howell got it right, and it was one other guest on your show a couple years ago that got it right.
unidentified
If people go in and look for documents under ETV, they might get something, or are they will still be classified?
I still don't understand how they could have shown you Roswell and the true history of ufology and what the government knew and had you sign all this and even today that you could be sitting here telling us I tried to explain that to you.
But still, you're telling me that you believe that you're charging our government made a deal with aliens to come down and occasionally grab specimens and slice and dice as they will.
No, I don't know anything about them providing any type of our government providing permission or giving permission to any visitors, extraterrestrial visitors, to do that.
In my eight years or something in OSI, in that particular program with clearances, I never read one bit of information about abductions, not one, in an official government document.
Now, I heard a lot from other people.
I'm not a believer.
i mean i'm not a strong believer that the aliens are abducting us i'm not a believer you did say though that our government came to an agreement with them I don't know what that means.
unidentified
I think what he said was experiments, and that's what experiments.
I don't mean with human beings because I'd never read the document.
All I read was that the United States government had an agreement with the extraterrestrial visitors that we would allow them to visit Earth and research or whatever.
And I say captivity because that's actually the way it was phrased in a document, captivity.
He wasn't allowed to leave.
He provided us with a book.
It was referred to as a yellow book.
And in this book, which wasn't actually a book, it was kind of a transparent piece of slab that when you looked at it and studied it, English wording, but ironic because if you knew Russian, if you were looking at it, then Russian words would come out of it.
And I don't understand it, but in there it gave the full history of what they knew about the universe and about our solar system and about other life, intelligence life around the universe.
And they provided us with information about others, other creatures, other aliens who had visited Earth or in the past.
If I wanted to disinform you, Arnold, what I would do was try to convince you that the extraterrestrial visitation was baloney, that everything that you ever heard was wrong.
I can't do that because it's not true.
I wouldn't do it.
I have no reason now after all these years to do it.
When they tell you these facts or stories or whatever they are, you have to go and check other places, talk to other people, see who repeats these stories, how long the stories hold up.
That's how you get through disinformation.
You can't just listen to it and then accept it and then go off with it.
You have to sit with it for many years sometimes to figure out something's true or not.
A lot of the things that Rick is saying have been verified by other people.
Now, you and I and probably most of the people listening have never seen an alien or never seen this book or the crystal that they talked about that people would look into, any of this stuff.
So you have to suspend your disbelief up as far to the edge as you want to and think of it probably more as a mental exercise before it's proven unequivocally to you, like it has been to Whitley Striber and maybe Bob Dean and other researchers like that.
Wildcard Line, you're on the air with the group here.
unidentified
Hi to everybody.
Hello.
I wanted to say I'm not debunking Roswell, but I wanted to talk to you about the Fox show, that special that they did, whatever it was, about 10 years ago or so.
Well, hey, we specialize in those kinds of boxes here.
Perhaps you could.
We're coming up on a break, so perhaps what you could do is sort of figure out if there's a way you could talk about it without naming specific names or something, some way of giving us an idea what was done.
All right, good.
I'm Mark Bell.
unidentified
A very old friend came by today Cause he was telling everyone in town After all that he gets found And Marie's the name of the place explained He taught and taught you And I heard him say That she had the
longest, blackest hair The prettiest green eyes anywhere And Marie's the name of his latest friend Though I smiled and tears inside for the burning I wished him love again when he said goodbye That he was gone but still his words kept returning Dreams of the
asperry We were born again The birds are dying leaves, turning blue But the white bird just sits in her cage, rolling gold
The white bird must fly, or she will die The white bird must fly, or she will die The sun sets come, the sun sets go, the clouds flow by, the earth turns slow, the younger times do always grow.
And she must fly, she must fly, she must fly.
To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
The first-time caller line is Area Code 775-727-1222.
To talk with Art Bell from East of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
From West of the Rockies, call ART at 800-618-8255.
International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country spread access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
Once again, Richard Odie and Greg Bishop, and I've got a question from Philip in Hampton, Virginia, who asks, what was the crystal that he mentioned?
Is it something in some way connected with Dan Burrish?
And do you know anything about the Dan Burrish controversy at all, Richard?
Or either one of you, really?
unidentified
No, don't know about it.
I've heard that name.
The crystal I knew was something that was presented on that UFO cover-up live as something that aliens had that they had shown to people in the Air Force, whoever was keeping this alien there.
And if you looked in it, you could see scenes from the past or the future of Earth's history.
I'd like you, if you can, to confirm or deny something I had heard from a former coast-to-coast guest.
I don't remember whether he was on with Art or George, and I don't remember his name, but somebody talking about the UFO phenomenon once said that he had received information that John F. Kennedy, President John F. Kennedy, was assassinated because he was going to tell the public the truth about the E.T. Is that true or not?
Had you actually come up with that answer, I would have immediately pounced upon you.
So, Greg?
unidentified
Yeah, there was a researcher called, I think it was Michael Karlinski uncovered this, and then Ken Thomas published this in Steam Shovel Press about some sort of pillow talk between JFK and Marilyn Monroe about him seeing aliens at Area 51 or somewhere out in the southwest, and that's the reason, one, JFK was assassinated, and two, Marilyn Monroe appeared to be suicided, as it's the term used in the business.
I was stationed in Germany, and one of our things we did over there was counter-espionage, and we were debriefing a former KGB agent, and one of the questions that was presented to him was about John F. Kennedy, and he said, that's what he said.
He said, well, you guys killed him because he was going to talk about the UFOs.
You know, I'm not really too knowledgeable in this area, but I've been paying real close attention.
And Richard, you know, Art specifically asked you about the film of Roswell, and you specifically answered that you saw Roswell, and then you backslid on that.
I mean, that part, I mean, it showed the recovery, and then it showed this creature at, well, I don't know where it was, either some hidden facility in New Mexico or in Los Alamos, because he was at both locations.
But it showed this creature, it filmed this creature saying this is one that got out of the craft that lived.
Well, the outside of it looked, it wasn't a saucer shape, it was more like a bat-wing shape.
It had a cutout in the back where apparently the engine was, and it was kind of bat-winged shaped, and it had a protrusion on top with a light, and it was a silvery, grayish-colored craft.
Cash Landrum ship was something else, and when I talked to you, you said you thought that was, and what a lot of people thought was, was a test craft, a nuclear-powered test craft that somehow went off course.
I think the problem is that with people like Greg and anyone else who is searching for something in life, sometimes the obvious is just the obvious, whether there be aliens or not aliens, whether it be technology or whatever it's coming from.
And I think that when you so badly want to believe something, that sometimes you want to believe disinformation or believe the obvious facts.
Yeah, well, that's the point I was trying to make in the book, and people have said, you know, well, does this mean that the UFOs are completely a product of everything we know is a completely product of the government?
If you're in a courtroom and you're being accused of something by somebody and your lawyer is really good and proves that one of the witnesses against you is a damn liar, then even though what they lied about has nothing to do with necessarily what you've done or accused of, even if it's true, it's discarded by the jury.
Once a liar, never trust it again, ever.
unidentified
Exactly.
But this is not a court, and disinformation works in ways that are not suited for our system of justice.
One of the things we did in a disinformation area was in Commune Espionage, where we recruited a person, and we sent that person in to meet a Soviet agent, and we controlled him, and we fed him disinformation.
We fed our guy phony information to give to the Soviets.
But when it involves people like Linda Moulton Howe and I guess Paul Benowitz and a lot of other people that have been fed, American citizens that have been fed this disinformation.
On the other hand, everybody understands the need for national security, and it may be that the need is just as great here as it is in giving the Soviet Union disinformation.
I'm just telling you how things go down, PR-wise.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Greg Bishop, Richard Dodie.
That these things are done, these lies are dispensed, and it's in the name of real, honest to God, national security projects.
unidentified
Yeah, well, I pointed this out in the book that there were assets in Russia who were sending this information back.
And if they found out that somebody over here was getting that information and using it on these satellites through Paul Denowitz or anybody else, these people would have been imprisoned or killed or whatever.
And they figured, I think Richard can comment on this, that they figured that the one person getting paranoid and going off the deep end was worth 10 or 12 or 15 or however many agents they had over in Russia doing this, apart from the fact that just the basic information.
And another thing that we as an open society have to be very careful of is what people does with the information.
If we allow somebody to have information that is of a sensitive nature, there's no protection, or there's no guarantee that they're not going to give that to the Soviets or the East Germans or the Chinese.
So we have to be careful, and that's the main basis for the counterintelligence, is protect our secrets.
I know officially that the Soviet Union had a very, very extensive program in investigating UFO sightings within their borders, and also an intelligence operation targeting certain people in the United States to obtain information that we had.
One of the interesting points, we ran counter-espionage operations in Europe.
We sent our spies in and let them think, the Soviets think these guys were theirs, but actually they were ours.
Almost every one of our spies would come back and say, hey, this guy wants to know about what I know about UFOs or what we have about UFOs.
I mean, they would target our people and ask questions, and that was something that showed us they still had a lot of interest.
And I'd like to ask about Philip Corso and what he might know, a verification of what he wrote about, and or was there any information more he can add to that?
Do you know him or was he involved in any of his work or anybody that he knew was involved in his work?
I had a very interesting chat with Phil on two occasions, one in Los Alamos, New Mexico, and one in Washington, D.C., where we spoke quite openly, and he filled me in a lot of things that I never knew, because, of course, he was around in the early days.
And he verified a lot of things personally between him and I that I'm saying tonight about Roswell.
Now, I didn't know about the crates and some of these things that he knew about, but again, I wasn't around that.
Well, basically, one of the operations that was successful involved airlines in Nevada that flew people to a certain location from one place to another.