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Feb. 27, 2005 - Art Bell

02:52:55

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Greg Bishop - Government Disinformation Programs

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	Music playing...
	From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon,
	wherever you may be in the world's time zones, all of them covered like a great warm blanket by this program, Coast to
	Coast AM.
	I'm Art Bell.
	My pleasure and honor, of course, to be escorting you through the weekend.
	Many, many, many of you, after the declarations of the amount of rain I made that we had last week, said, hey, Art, Why don't you go take a picture of the desert?
	So I went to a little BLM land.
	That's unattended land.
	Government land.
	A lot of it here.
	Immediately adjacent to my home and took a photograph.
	And that is what you will find now on my webcam.
	Art's webcam now.
	It's a pretty amazing picture.
	You've got to understand where I'm located is about 20 miles from the Valley of Death.
	Death Valley.
	And, uh, so there you have it.
	The picture is worth a thousand words.
	I told you we had a lot of rain.
	Take a look at that.
	It's like a golf course.
	All right, um, the boxing saga, Million Dollar Baby.
	Seems to have won the Academy Awards of Heavyweight Sunday, claiming Best Picture and three other trophies, including honors for director Clint Eastwood, lead actress Hilary Swank, and supporting actor Morgan Freeman.
	Martin Scorsese's The Aviator came away with most Oscars, its five awards, including the Supporting Actress Prize for Cate Blanchett.
	So, there you have it.
	Not too many surprises, really.
	The man arrested on suspicion of being the BTK serial killer has confessed to at least six of the killings and might be responsible for as many as 13 more, including one, by the way, that could carry the death penalty.
	Iraqi officials said Sunday that Syria captured and handed over Saddam Hussein's half-brother.
	A most wanted leader in the Sunni-based insurgency ending months now of Syrian denials that it was harboring fugitives from the ousted Saddam regime.
	So there you go, they had his half-brother.
	All along.
	Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon threatened Sunday to freeze peace efforts if the Palestinian leadership doesn't crack down on militant groups after a weekend suicide bombing.
	In Tel Aviv that killed four Israelis and wounded dozens.
	Searchers spent a fourth day scouring roads and looking for that little nine-year-old Jessica Marie Lunsford last seen Wednesday night in her bedroom.
	Father discovered she was missing next morning.
	Police have said a door at the home was unlocked and one of the third graders dolls also gone.
	Iran and Russia ignored US objections, and it seems they have now signed a nuclear fuel agreement.
	They did that today.
	It is a key to bringing Tehran's first reactor online by mid-2006.
	Worth asking, I suppose, why the Iranians need, or would want, a nuclear reactor.
	Well, you might say they need power too.
	Well, they have more oil than just about any of us, so why do they need nuclear power?
	There's an obvious answer to that.
	In a moment, a little of the other news.
	There's a headline here that worries me, though it comes from the India Daily.
	The headline says, Evidence of Extreme Disturbance in Earth's Core.
	That's right, Earth's Core.
	We'll get to it in a moment.
	We are going to be going to open lines very quickly if you have something of intense interest to the audience.
	I think this is of intense interest.
	Now, bear in mind it comes from the India Daily.
	A lot of times you have to go out of the country to get news that you're definitely not going to get here.
	So I can't vouch for it, but I can vouch for the fact that it is from that source.
	And it is translated, so excuse any apparent disturbance in context here.
	Geologists in India and the rest of the world are receiving signals of a very disturbed mantle and core of the Earth.
	According to some computer models, the outer core and the mantle is getting extremely heated.
	This can cause extreme tension on the Earth's crust and tectonic plates.
	The net result can be increased earthquakes and volcanoes.
	The reports are coming from virtually every continent and say the volcanoes, geysers and mud volcanoes are all ready to explode.
	According to the scientists, the mantle viscosity is going down due to increased temperature.
	The outer core is showing signs of molecular agitation.
	I felt a little of that myself, I think.
	The inner core is also showing strange signs.
	According to some contemporary geoscience theories, the Earth's iron core formed with a large share of radioactive uranium, which combined with sulfur to make an extra dense compound.
	Now, the uranium settled to the center of the core, where it eventually formed a mass big enough to sustain a supercritical nuclear reactor.
	Not just that, but it functions as a breeder reactor, creating more nuclear fuel than it burns.
	This provides the energy needed to generate the geomagnetic field.
	That is, in essence, the theory of geomagnetism and gravity.
	If the reactor, for some reason, is disturbed, it can cause major problems and eventually explode.
	Scientists believe chances of that are very remote, although not impossible, and these are This may be evidence, they suggest, in our solar system.
	They say there once was another planet, and it exploded and caused major problems for Earth and Mars millions of years back.
	So there you have it.
	Problems and disturbances in the Earth's core.
	Hardly ever get to read stories like that.
	And then this.
	Straight from Matt Drudge, before I went on the air.
	Headline is, mysterious smell hangs over Chicago.
	Calls pour into 911 center.
	Mysterious odor.
	Hundreds of people reported a mysterious and foul odor in the air throughout Chicago.
	Sunday calls came from the south side to the north side of Chicago and even beyond.
	Chicago's 911 Center on West Madison Street fielded many of the calls Saturday night and Sunday morning on the mysterious odor in the city of Chicago.
	When Edison Park resident Debbie Usher went out to get the paper Sunday morning, she smelled something.
	She said, quote, I came outside to get the newspaper and noticed a strong, very strong smell of gas.
	At least that's what I thought it smelled like.
	And the northwest side wasn't the only place Chicagoans noticed the foul and strange odor.
	Police officers coming and going to and from headquarters at 35th and Michigan smelled it.
	And as far south as the Hegwisch neighborhood, people thought some kind of fuel might have been spilled or something smelled like, I don't know, kerosene or, you know, a grassy smell.
	So, Any of you in Chicago who might be able to update us on this foul infestation that you're apparently suffering.
	I'd enjoy getting some Chicago calls.
	Can any of you still smell it?
	And do you wish to point the finger of blame at anything or, well, anybody?
	East of the Rockies, you're on here!
	Hello.
	Hi, I'm calling east of the Rockies.
	Yes, you are east of the Rockies.
	Well, that's good, because that's where you're on.
	And now you're on the air!
	Thank you, sir.
	This is Suzy in the Royal Oak, Michigan area.
	That's Detroit.
	And I wanted to say that I thought the ABC program was good for the following reason.
	The production values were excellent.
	Oh, they were, yes.
	Yeah, and that's something nobody's mentioned, and I think that's an awfully good way to sort out between what ABC was trying to do and what our listeners Yes, well, again, what the listeners on Coast would like to have and what the general public is able to digest are two entirely different things.
	It's a very bright audience.
	They're very well informed.
	Exactly, and I think Peter Jennings probably believed in what he was doing more than he might have seen during that second time when he was running down 1947 in Roswell.
	I think that was a pound of flesh.
	It got collected for getting that thing on the air, and I don't think he will miss bringing us a second program.
	That's what I'm hopeful of.
	Thank you very, very much.
	I'm very hopeful of a second part to that, and then obviously they could get up and go further, but you can't start out at the end of the story, or at least as much as is as known by many of you now.
	Uh, but rather at the beginning, and that's what they did.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi, uh, this Coast to Coast?
	That would be us.
	Yeah.
	Anyway, my name's John.
	I'm calling from Aberdeen, Washington.
	Yes, John.
	Yeah, I just wanted to, uh, talk about a, uh, I think might've been a near-death experience my grandson had that was in a car wreck.
	That he had?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Anyway, he was in a car wreck and there were two other grandchildren in the car with him.
	One of the grandchildren was hurt, but the one that was in the wreck, he got his seat belt and ripped his aorta.
	He's only got a little over half of his intestines left, but he told me a story without being Anybody say anything to him about something that happened to him?
	What did he say?
	He said there were two people in white gowns that were standing by him and they told him to go back to Johnny, which was my name from friends and family when I was younger.
	I asked him what they looked like and the hair and stuff like that.
	His description sounded like my mother and father.
	That's very convincing stuff.
	Because where he had the accident at was right across from the mouth of the cemetery that my mother and father were buried at.
	Well, I'm not sure that there would be a distance thing.
	In other words, I'm sure that no matter where that had occurred to him, they would have shown whether or not it was close to the cemetery.
	But you know, out of the mouths of babes, And I think that's one of the things that gives me, I don't know, some of the most hope when I hear stories about children that have been NDEs and describe things simply absolutely impossible for them to have known.
	You know, period clothing, that sort of thing.
	Relatives, accurate descriptions of relatives they've never seen.
	That sort of thing.
	It seems like pretty good evidence and maybe as good as we're ever going to get.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hey, this is Art Belkin.
	It is me.
	Hey, I just want to tell you, you got the best show on radio.
	And once I discovered you, I listened to you every weekend.
	Well, thank you.
	It's certainly very different.
	I mean, you got the best form because you'll talk to anybody.
	And I mean, oh, I forgot to tell you, my name is James.
	I'm in San Francisco.
	Yes, as you may have noticed, James, you were just ringing the phone, and you went straight on the air.
	Yeah, because I was just so excited to talk to you, because you definitely got the best show on radio.
	I want to say what's up to Tim in Jersey, and thanks a lot, Art.
	All right.
	Take care.
	We just come to you in the raw, as it were.
	I'm not sure that's the right way to put it.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	How are you?
	I'm just fine.
	Good.
	My name is Bart, and I'm calling from Houston, Texas.
	Yes.
	Listening to you on 740.
	I just wanted to bring to your attention, you may have already discussed this already, I don't know, but last night you had a call from a young lady that said she was giving you some information about the BTK, I think, BTK killer.
	Yes.
	That he had been turned in by his daughter.
	That's what she said, yes.
	And that's true.
	That turned out to be true today.
	Okay, well there you go.
	No, I didn't read that part today, but That's interesting.
	I just thought that was pretty good.
	Your listeners are on the ball that you knew it last night at 1.30 in the morning, and nobody found out about that.
	His daughter turned him in.
	Well, this again, sir, is what you get when you have open line, unrestricted, unfiltered, screened talk radio.
	You just get the real thing.
	It's a pleasure.
	Continue the good job.
	Thank you very much, and have a good morning.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Yes.
	Art?
	Yes.
	Oh, yes.
	Earlier today, I emailed you a picture about a UFO.
	A picture of a UFO?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	It was earlier this evening when I was watching the Academy Awards.
	It's something that I dug out.
	I took many years ago.
	Oh, I see.
	Miami Beach, South Beach to be exact.
	Actually, I emailed you three pictures.
	Uh, my name is Nestor, by the way.
	Well, I may not have gotten to them yet.
	Uh, yeah, because that was like about an hour ago, an hour and a half ago.
	Yes.
	And, anyway, look for the, uh, in the subject matter, it says, uh, uh, UFO picture, uh, South Beach, Miami.
	That'll get my attention, believe me.
	Yeah.
	And, uh, anyway, you'll see the UFO between the palm trees and, uh, the, uh, beach in the background.
	And you can actually see this tree.
	I took it from the, uh, Uh, from the, uh, um, the balcony of the hotel where I was staying.
	All right, sir.
	If it's a good one, I'll get it up on the website for everybody to see, but that would have been a little late to get on the air tonight.
	Uh, what's for the Rockies?
	You're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	I just wanted to, first of all, I wanted to, uh, say that I enjoy your show very much.
	I've listened to it for a few months.
	It's really wonderful.
	Thank you.
	Where, where are you?
	I am in, uh, San Diego.
	All right.
	My name is Joe.
	I listen to Kogo.
	Yes, sir.
	And I just wanted to make two little comments, or actually just a comment and a suggestion.
	The first, I agree with you as far as the ABC special.
	I do think that they could have been a little more open-minded, but I suppose they are trying to teach a few people that don't know much of anything about UFOs what it really is all about.
	That's the first experience for them.
	Well, to have dismissed Roswell as a myth was ridiculous.
	I agree.
	Absolutely ridiculous.
	Otherwise, though, contrary to what a lot of ufology have to say, and people in ufology, I thought it was a good first step.
	Well, the other thing I wanted to suggest, either, I know that sometimes you and George Nore dedicate a single line to whatever, you know, you may be looking for out there.
	Yes.
	I don't know if this has been done, but have you ever considered opening up a line exclusively for people, your listeners out there, who may at this moment be seeing a UFO in the sky and get a live description?
	Oh, well, certainly we've done that many times, sir.
	As a matter of fact, part of the UFO show you saw, the ABC show, was about a night that we got call after call after call after call about the Phoenix Lights.
	You see, I came on at 10 o'clock hour time, and the whole thing was just going absolutely berserk.
	I mean, every phone line was lit up with people who were seeing it, that sort of thing.
	But yes, I suppose one could open a line for those who are seeing one at the moment.
	First-time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hey, Art.
	How you doing?
	How you doing?
	Just fine.
	Listen to me, down in New Orleans, on WSMD 1350.
	Yes, sir.
	Look, I want to ask you about...
	I know you talk about global warming a lot, and I kind of believe maybe we ought to call it global normalization, not global warming.
	Whatever.
	Have you ever spoken to anybody in reference to maybe what was the temperature on planet Earth during prehistoric times, during dinosaurs, when they were roaming the Earth?
	In other words, warming back up to that temperature.
	Well, yes, sir.
	Those sorts of questions would be most appropriately directed toward people who drill ice cores.
	And that's exactly the kind of information they extract from ice cores.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Yes, Art.
	Yes.
	They have something tonight also about UFOs on the History Channel tonight.
	Okay.
	A small conspiracy.
	And the gentleman that was on George Nody's program the other night about telling about, you know, the Philadelphia Project.
	That would be Al Belick.
	Yeah.
	And, I mean, all this is coming out thanks to you.
	And I'm very proud of you for doing this, because this should have come out a long time ago.
	Well, there's a lot of things that now remember.
	Now remember, with this program, as with many things that you see in the media, or hear in the media on radio, some of it is going to be true, and some of it is going to be BS.
	And it's frankly up to you to separate in your mind what you think is real and not.
	But I'm telling you straight out and up front that not all of what you hear here Is absolutely true.
	It's simply not.
	Well, I have to tell you, my husband was taken up in Virginia back in the 60s.
	Then they appeared again at our home down south.
	They appeared in the middle of the night inside our home.
	They?
	Yes, there were two people.
	I mean, this was like 1230 at night.
	I had just gotten on the bed and I had my back towards the door.
	You know that feeling that you have that somebody's behind you?
	Oh, yes.
	Okay.
	I turned back over.
	There were two beings standing in my doorway of my bedroom.
	And you would describe them how?
	They looked like they were wearing, like, almost like jumpsuits.
	It was dark.
	You know, to their face, the light was behind them, so I could see them.
	You know, they were outlined and everything.
	Little bitty people?
	Big people?
	No, they weren't that small, no.
	And one was holding something in his hand.
	I couldn't make out what it was, and I tried to wake my husband up, I said, wake up, somebody's in the house, and all of a sudden, I turned back towards them, this light just lit up the whole room like it was daylight, and they were gone.
	And then they show up again here, where we're living now, across the lake one day, they were sitting right above the trees, and just so happened, the shuttle was going up, and it comes right over us as it goes out, and I mean, it had to actually go, jump over it to keep from getting hit by it.
	I mean, it was sitting right there.
	And I mean, we've had experiences with them, and I tell you what, I hadn't thought about it for a long time, and then when I saw a program on TV one night, the fear came back.
	Fear, yeah, I understand.
	All right, well listen, we've got a break here at the half hour.
	Open lines at the moment.
	I'm Art Bell, and coming up at the top of the hour, we've got Greg Bishop, and I believe, by the way, we've got a special prize, very prize, special witness for you coming up in tonight's show.
	you don't want to miss it come on
	the the
	the the
	the If the cause was right, I'd leave to find an answer on the road.
	I used to be a hard beating for someone.
	Unless I save them all, my work isn't done Cause I live and breathe this kindred, deadly freedom
	From the day that I was born, I've made my life There's a doctor, baby, whisking me high to a man
	Yeah!
	Give me a piece of my heart, daddy!
	To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
	International callers may reach Art by calling your in-country Sprint Access number, pressing
	Option 5, and dialing toll free, 800-893-0903.
	From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	According to the India Daily, something wrong, an extreme disturbance in the Earth's core, and then...
	According to, uh, I believe it's Channel 9 News in Chicago, a foul and mysterious odor overhanging all of Chicago.
	could there be a connection was i said at the top of the hour greg bishop is going to
	be here and he's going to be talking uh... a whole lot about u f o's
	and he is going to bring
	A surprise witness, a man who has never talked publicly before.
	Now, this might not happen, mind you.
	It might not happen, but... I'm not even going to give his name right now.
	I want to be sure they want to give his name, that he wants to actually give his name, but... Somebody who worked for the Air Force Office of Special Investigation at the OSI, and apparently specialized In disinformation.
	Disinformation.
	This could potentially be very interesting.
	We shall see. Wild Card Line, you're on the air. Hi.
	Hi. Yeah, it was great to see you on that show, and your wife is beautiful.
	Well, thank you.
	I was calling because something happened when I called in last night on the Wild Card Line,
	and I didn't get to ask my question of your guest about nanotechnology.
	I thought maybe I'd just see what you thought about it.
	Fire away.
	Yeah.
	You know, there was some talk about how we're sort of all merging into one organism in a strange way with the Internet and stuff.
	Then we'll be merging with machines.
	We're already doing that, too.
	I mean, the Internet is a good example of that, too.
	It's a big, borg-ish move.
	Yeah.
	And how there's downside and upside and all that.
	Worried me more than the grey goo and stuff like that was if we all merge with each other and merge with machines, number one, there would probably need to be some programming in there having to do with ethics.
	And number two, if that was done, would it mean the end of free will as we know it?
	If we have it now?
	Yes, we have it now.
	I mean, haven't you ever wondered?
	I mean, maybe you were destined, if not programmed, like a puppet on strings, to call me up tonight and say all of this.
	It was all predestined.
	Well, you know, like in twin studies, so many times they'll be separated from birth, and it turns out they work at the same type of job, they have the same hairdo, they wear the same kind of... they're wearing the same dress or something, you know.
	So there's a lot to do with...
	Genetically, yes.
	Well, last night scared the hell out of me.
	I'm serious.
	I don't know what I've done recently that scared me more than... I mean, he was a very cheerful fellow, I guess.
	Very cheerful.
	But, frankly, when it got down to the part where he said the only way that humanity will be able to combat nanotechnology and the misuse of it is to itself, humanity itself, turn into part machine, That began to get to me a little bit.
	Yeah.
	I mean, how are you going to feel?
	Are you going to accept it when they come to you with, oh, just a little circuit board and a couple of chips that they want to implant in your head?
	A little chip for me to be able to buy things anywhere.
	Well, that too, yes, of course.
	I mean, how are you going to react?
	I think I might run off into the wilderness and learn to eat bark or something.
	Barkin' bugs.
	Yeah.
	All right, thank you very much for the call, and good luck in the woods.
	Barkin' bugs.
	That is what he said, though, and he was being very, very serious.
	No kidding around there at all.
	Nanotechnology, when you actually... Last night was kind of a nanotech 101.
	Of honestly what's coming down the pike and very soon at that.
	So if you didn't hear last night's show, dig it out of the archives.
	Do whatever you have to do to get hold of it and listen to that.
	It's important.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	I was impressed and then at the same time I was kind of disappointed that they did not include the Brentwater UFO experience.
	What, in the ABC special?
	Yes, on the ABC special.
	Well, there would be a million things you could be disappointed in that they didn't get in, but they only had two hours.
	And I had something else to say.
	Okay, but that story alone, sir, would have consumed, I don't know, 30 minutes to even begin to tell it right.
	Yeah.
	I got something else to say.
	When you consider UFOs, I think we ought to consider them in the time frame that they happen.
	Like Roswell, you've got to consider it in the day 1948.
	Of course they're going to lie about it, of course they're going to per se admit, and they did a very good job and that's why it was considered a myth.
	No, you mean in 1948 they would have lied, but well now they would never lie.
	Yeah, but the time frame, what the psychosis was ready for now, but if you look at today, the way the international community is coming together, which is a necessity to actually begin to think that we're not, that there's a greater community out there universally, we need to understand that As the world sort of comes together, maybe that's the step.
	I mean, I remember from last week they said, you know, stay healthy.
	Part of that might be the fact that the world is coming together.
	Militarily, economically, socially, we're coming together.
	The internet's part of that, I think.
	Until finally we become one world.
	Yeah, until finally we become one world and we can interact in a world where there's good and bad aliens, There's friends and foe, and we can act together.
	We can't have, you know, like the Muslims saying, okay, I hate the Jews so much that I'm ready to kill all humanity.
	Let me ask you a question, sir.
	Would it surprise you to know that I've been offered a very substantial position in the New World Order governing body?
	Probably not.
	It wouldn't surprise you?
	No.
	Then you're extremely gullible.
	But thank you for the call.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	This is Jeff from San Bernardino tonight calling from Summit Valley, California.
	This is a place where we have seen a few strange things similar to what you and Ramona have seen.
	I myself was in the United States Air Force at Norton Air Force Base in the past.
	I think I can tell the difference between something usual and something unusual.
	I wanted to talk to you a little bit about the program on ABC the other night, the documentary.
	I had a little bit different take on what they said about Roswell.
	I believe that the way I heard it, and I had to think about this, they said, from what I understood, people didn't get out of Roswell what they had hoped to as far as proof that UFOs existed.
	Are you talking about on the program?
	Yes.
	There was no proof at all, sir.
	They called it a myth.
	They said that there was a... I did hear them say that a lot of people did think it was myth and that anybody who thought that they were going to get proof out of it did not get out of what they wanted to.
	Well, it's in one place in my opinion.
	The program fell flat on its face.
	I do agree with you on that.
	But I also wanted to point out that I believe it was in 2003 and MSNBC ran this program earlier in the week probably because of the UFO seeing is believing on ABC.
	Bryant Gumbel did a very in-depth two-hour program on Roswell, and they gave a lot of different angles on Roswell, and information from all sides, and left you, the viewer, to decide what you wanted to out of all that information.
	That's the best way to do it.
	I try and do the same thing here.
	In other words, I fully understand and represent to you that some of what you hear here is BS.
	There's no question about it.
	some is not many times what you hear on this program is reflected in headlines a week a month and a year later
	Hello!
	much of what you hear here but on the other hand some is bs and you have to
	pick through it i regard you as adults ought to be at this time of night
	for the most part and you can make your way through it and and sort of
	except what you will and reject what you will first-time caller line you're on the air hello
	hello Mr. Bell?
	Yes, that would be me.
	I was holding for quite a while, but listen, it's a pleasure speaking with you.
	I called last week, and they gave me some shenanigan runaround that you weren't there, but I heard you, and I knew you were there, and I think they would just... Well, anyway, that's irrelevant to the point, but... Well, you see... I knew it was you, and that man told me it was some tomfoolery going on.
	Oh, my goodness.
	I don't know what man you're referring to.
	Now, it could have been, you see, during the weekend when I was off, in which case he would have been pleading the absolute truth to you, so... So, I don't know.
	I don't know, but I know it was you.
	Well, it's me now.
	Anyway, it's... The point is... Coast to coast, Art Bell is the most.
	Far better than jam on my toast, Mr. Bell, because I just love you.
	All right, where are you, my dear?
	I'm calling from New Jersey.
	My name is Louise, and I will not tell you anything more specific because I know, well, the reason I'm calling, my husband, who's deceased, worked for Naval Intelligence many, many years ago.
	And I know that some of the projects he worked on dealt with UFOs and aliens, but he wouldn't even discuss certain things with me.
	But I believe that, even today, that the aliens are among us.
	He would not tell you, his wife?
	Yes.
	He's deceased now.
	I understand.
	But he wouldn't even tell his own wife?
	She told me certain things, but they were confidential, classified, and I couldn't even discuss them with you or my friend Clara.
	Okay.
	But I know that there are certain alien beings that are injecting drugs into the air that we breathe.
	Oh.
	So you would tell me as much as you tell Clara, or would you tell Clara more?
	Well, that's irrelevant to the point, but I know that the alien beings, these greys, They're injecting some type of drug into the air we breathe, and it's contaminating us.
	Do you have any idea what these drugs are doing?
	Well, I could tell you some things, but... Well, please.
	I cut my hair.
	You cut your hair?
	You think these drugs made you cut your hair?
	Well, I had to, because Clara told me to do certain things.
	I put aluminum foil around the lampshade.
	You did?
	And what Clara told you?
	Clara instructed you to do that?
	She said it would help to reflect the drugs back into the atmosphere.
	I see.
	I think that's nonsense.
	They're going to penetrate us.
	If it's nonsense, why do you have aluminum foil on your lampshades?
	Well, I had to try it because it's not working.
	Well, but you'd never know for sure.
	How could you know for sure whether it was working or not?
	Of course, you did cut your hair.
	Welcome, and you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	This is Eric.
	Truck driver cruising down I-90, and great to stay in Minnesota.
	Yes, Eric.
	Hey, uh, I just wanted to let you know, um, I'm from Northern California, and there's, uh, there's a mountain in Lake County, California.
	It's called Mount Kanawha.
	Now, the weird thing about this mountain is it's an old, it's an extinct volcano.
	The strange thing is that they know it's hollow inside.
	Now, no one's been able to find the entrance to this volcano, and the thing that piqued my interest about this is that there was a couple of scientists that were actually on this mountain looking for the entrance to it, and they have the permission of the owners of the land.
	Then all of a sudden, for no reason, they kicked them off the property, and they forbid anybody to look for the entrance to this mountain.
	And I thought it was kind of unusual.
	Why do you think they might have done that?
	I think that there's possibly something going on in there, or it may lead to something that somebody doesn't want anybody to find out.
	It just piqued my interest, and I think that it may be something worth looking into.
	All right, sir.
	Well, let me know when you get out how it goes.
	I think he's probably suggesting the rest of us look into it.
	I've always been fascinated, as you know, with very deep holes in the ground, tunnels, The inside of mountains, absolutely intrigued, but never sufficiently to go scurrying down a rope, you know, into some dark pit or something.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air, hello.
	Yeah, hi Art, this is Jim from Fort Lauderdale listening on WIOD.
	Hi Jim.
	Uh, I'm a truck driver, as you can tell.
	Yes.
	Um, you'd guess last night, boy, he was in a very, very excellent show.
	Yes.
	And, um, what he was talking about with the nanobots and the, um, uh, artificial intelligence.
	You, you must watch the show, uh, Stargate.
	Do you watch that show?
	No.
	Okay.
	Cause they have, uh, a bunch of aliens they call the replicators and they all started out as one cell nanobots.
	That's a whole idea of nanotechnology.
	recta sets and they keep building themselves into the same thing over and over again.
	That's the whole idea of nanotechnology. It's replication mostly.
	Well, it's just everything you were saying last night and you saying that, you know,
	the bad scenario could be scary and watching the Stargate show and they take over, they
	can be one-celled bots or they can form giant...
	They get together and can form giants, big things, and take over the ships and all.
	But it seemed like it was very similar to what he was talking about last night.
	Alright, alright.
	Well, listen.
	We're going to, I think, as the next year or two progresses, we're going to begin hearing a very great deal about nanotechnology, and a lot of what is science fiction today.
	His nanobots, the nanobots he was talking about, are liable to be with us a lot sooner than we think.
	I really did.
	I thought last night's program was quite educational, first of all, and after you began to understand what it was that last night's guest was talking about, then it began to scare you, if you were really listening.
	Worcester the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hi Art, this is Willow from Lake Matthews listening on KFI.
	How you doing?
	I'm fine.
	I expected watching that program to see what had happened with Art's parts.
	Well, that too would have been a very long segment, my dear.
	They were tested extensively at several different locations, and there would be a lot to report, but it was not normal.
	Arts parts continue to exist.
	I still have left my portion of them.
	I gave Larry King a little piece.
	Otherwise, I've kept them.
	Other pieces went out for research, but they came back with ratios that were all wrong.
	Well, I heard about that, but they're still safely stored somewhere.
	Oh, you betcha.
	Well, I would sure like to see them tell me what their opinion is of that and call it a myth.
	Well, again, that might be for another program, but what we were told by those who tried to duplicate the material and arts parts was that it was not possible on Earth.
	In other words, they could not duplicate the structure and the layering of the bismuth and so forth.
	It just couldn't be done.
	No, identify it completely from what I heard.
	That's right.
	That's absolutely correct.
	Good wishes to you and your family.
	Take care.
	Alright.
	To East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hello Art, this is Jimmy J from Wichita, Kansas.
	Howdy.
	Today I just wanted to call in and correct what an earlier caller said about BTK's daughter turning him in.
	Okay.
	Skinny on that is that they went to her and got her DNA to match some DNA they had.
	Okay.
	And they said that it was about a 90% make on that.
	I guess it's a moot point since my understanding is tonight's headline has him confessing to at least half a dozen murders.
	Well, they really haven't said that here on the news.
	Oh, Associated Press has said that.
	Well, I don't think they haven't said that here locally.
	Right.
	You might want to check.
	It's pretty late news.
	He must be a real Jekyll and Hyde, because all his church members, uh, thought he was a great guy.
	I know one personally, and he was on TV tonight.
	Oh, you always hear that about serial killers.
	Uh, why, he was next door!
	He was, he was an okay guy.
	Oh, he was very quiet.
	And he always held the door for me when I came through.
	And he always had a smile on his face.
	And you know, he worked with the Cub Scouts!
	I mean, just the nicest guy in the world!
	And of course he murdered six people, thirteen people, whatever.
	I'm speaking more generically now.
	You're on the Air Coast-to-Coast AM with Art Bell.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, Mr. Bell.
	Howdy.
	Where are you?
	I'm right here in your own backyard.
	My own backyard?
	In Pahrump, yes.
	Oh, you're in Pahrump, Nevada.
	All right.
	Yes, sir.
	Listening to?
	Listening to you, of course.
	On?
	I was just curious as to your thoughts on cloning.
	i don't know i was a little on time what's up uh... now i was just uh... the by the way to raise a lot of
	you have great people
	i was just curious uh... to your your thoughts on cloning
	uh... i know mankind's been calling themselves for millions of years i know
	even right now so you can get your cat clothes What's the name of that guy?
	Well, anyway, it won't come to me, but for about 50 grand, or maybe even a discounted 30 grand now, I don't know, you can get your cat cloned.
	and an exact, precise duplicate.
	This is the final result.
	Thank you for watching.
	Please subscribe.
	Thank you for watching.
	When you wake up it's a new morning.
	The sun is shining, it's a new morning.
	You're going, you're going home Do talk with Art Bell. Call the wild card line at area code
	7.
	or a lighted area codes.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	line is area code 775-727-1222. To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free
	at 800-825-5033. From west of the Rockies, call Art at 800-618-8255.
	International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country Sprint Access
	number, pressing Option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
	From coast to coast, and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	I've got a feeling that what you're going to hear tonight, ABC wouldn't dare put on the air.
	They wouldn't dare.
	Or if they did, that would be the tenth show down the line.
	Tonight, Greg Bishop publishes and edits the Excluded Middle.
	It's a journal of UFOs, conspiracy, research, psychedelia, and new science.
	His reports, interviews, and features have appeared in several national publications.
	Greg has spoken publicly at various conferences and meetings, including, most recently, the first annual UFO crash retrieval conference in Las Vegas, and the Ancient Science and Modern Secrets Conference in December of 2004.
	He has also appeared on many radio and television and internet interview programs.
	For two years, he was host Engineer and DJ for the Hungry Ghost, a radio show of interviews and music airing on Pirate FM station, KBLT in Los Angeles.
	Pirate, huh?
	His current show radio... What is this?
	Missy Ostrom, I guess, can be heard on Sundays from 8 to 10 p.m.
	at www.killradio.org.
	That's another... I think that's another pirate operation.
	Matter of fact, we'll ask in a moment.
	Very interesting.
	You've never heard him on Coast to Coast AM, but you will in a moment.
	Greg Bishop, stay right back.
	By the way, about a million responses to my new Dwayze collar.
	And that's the only way you're ever going to get that kind of collar message going out here.
	is open lines.
	You just simply take what comes.
	You don't screen it out.
	You don't edit it out because you never really know what you're going to get until you explore a little bit.
	So some of the more classic things that will ever happen on this kind of radio occur when you have truly open lines.
	Now, to my guest, Greg Bishop.
	This should be an interesting evening, Greg.
	Welcome to the program.
	Thank you, Art.
	How did you get involved?
	First of all, I guess I had to follow up.
	Killradio.org, that's another pirate organization, isn't it?
	No, it's an internet radio station.
	But didn't they have also a bit of a broadcast facility at one point?
	I believe somebody was broadcasting it for a while, but it's been very spotty.
	I think they were just taking things off the internet and broadcasting them out over the Los Angeles area.
	KBLT went for, I think, three straight years until the FCC finally caught up with us.
	Closed in, huh?
	Yeah.
	I know that you had an FM pirate, didn't you, when you were a teenager, I think?
	Actually, that was when I was in the United States Air Force.
	Fortunately, by the time I told that story, Why the statute of limitations had long since expired.
	But yes, we did it.
	It was a long story and it was a lot of fun.
	So there you are, Greg.
	You've been with the Pirates.
	Yes.
	It was quite interesting.
	I had a very late night show.
	I did interviews and music for a little over two years until the FCC finally caught up with us and took the equipment and said you can either To the person that was running the station, you said, you can either give us your equipment or we can take you to court and you might have to pay a fine of something like $10,000 or $15,000.
	So she gave them the equipment.
	Oh, an offer she couldn't refuse.
	And she's written a book about it, too.
	Many people have.
	It's a remarkable thing.
	At any rate, you must have, I don't know, to be on Pirate Radio, it must mean that you had something to say that was not, well, exactly mainstream, perhaps.
	Yeah, it's basically what you do on your show with the open lines, etc., except we could, say, do anything we wanted.
	There was absolutely no restriction, because obviously we weren't licensed.
	A total lack of responsibility.
	Yes, we never got called on anything, really.
	It was wonderful.
	That's kind of how kill radio is now, because internet radio is pretty much the same thing.
	Well, I kind of follow the pirate community a little bit.
	So, you know, I've always been interested.
	I was surprised you knew that somebody was pirating our signal and sending it out in L.A.
	Last year they did it.
	As I said, I keep track of this stuff.
	So there you are.
	Anyway, Richard, how did you get interested in ufology?
	Greg, you mean?
	Oh, Greg, yes.
	I'm sorry.
	How did you get interested in ufology?
	You know, it's very strange.
	I don't exactly know how I got interested, but I do remember when I was a kid, my father used to take us to the library every week and say, get as many books as you want, read them all, and we'll bring them back next week.
	And we just did this over and over.
	And for some reason, and I can't really tell why, I cleared out all the UFO and paranormal and cryptozoology shelves in one library.
	We went to another library and I cleared all those shelves out over the course of a year or so and then I went back to the first library and did it again.
	And somewhere along the line something caught your eye.
	Yeah, it's funny though because I was interested in it up to probably about junior high school and then it kind of dropped out of my life until after I graduated college and I had a very tempestuous period And for some reason, the subject came rushing back to me like it wouldn't be denied.
	It was very strange.
	And that was in 1988.
	And since then, that's what I've been interested in.
	All right.
	I sort of promote the possibility of a surprise guest.
	Can you confirm that, indeed, we are going to have our little surprise guest on shortly?
	Yes.
	I called him and he said that he would be ready.
	OK.
	Do you want to give his name?
	I think I'll let him give his name.
	You're going to let him do it?
	Yeah.
	I believe he said it was alright to give his name, but I'll just let him do it because I want to make absolutely sure that's what he wants to do because he hasn't talked anywhere to anyone publicly.
	Well, let's tease it a little bit.
	He was in the Air Force.
	He worked for the Air Force Office of Special Investigations?
	Yes.
	He was an agent with the AFOSI at Kirtland Air Force Base in the late 70s up through And he is going to claim what?
	That he dispensed, on official orders I would presume, disinformation?
	Yes, to a certain individual who I wrote this book about.
	And that individual is?
	Is Paul Benowitz, or was Paul Benowitz.
	He died about a week before the first time I came out there to start working on interviews for the book.
	Alright, what was it about Paul Benowitz that fascinated you?
	That's kind of a long story.
	However, what happened to Paul Benowitz, I will tell you the story of Paul Benowitz, is that he lived next to Kirtland Air Force Base in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
	And around 1979, he started noticing strange lights flying around the base doing things that airplanes normally couldn't do.
	This is common around military bases.
	However, he started filming them.
	And I think videotaping them, if he had some sort of videotape set up.
	And he also started picking up signals from the base, radio signals.
	I don't know what band these were on, what exactly the messages contained, or what the transmissions were.
	There were a few guesses I made in the book.
	But he began to think that these lights, combined with these signals, had something to do with Aliens being around the base.
	So he made an effort to contact the Air Force and say, do you know you have these things flying around your base?
	And they're sending out these signals that are very strange.
	They seem like bursts of information.
	Do you know about this?
	And as soon as he called up the Air Force, they get crank calls all the time.
	So they questioned him a little bit and started to realize that he might be seeing something that he shouldn't.
	And what Air Force, I'm sorry, what Air Force Base?
	Kirtland Air Force Base.
	Kirtland, all right.
	Kirtland.
	Yes, it's right, right, it borders Albuquerque.
	Right.
	In fact, when you land at the Albuquerque Airport, you fly right over it.
	Okay, so the Air Force did what?
	The Air Force called him in.
	They called him into a meeting, eventually.
	Actually, first they had this person we're going to talk to go out to his house and try and figure out what it was he was seeing.
	Um, what possibly he had seen and what he might be doing with it.
	And based on that information, they called him in for a meeting at the Air Force Base with a few of the, you know, of the brass and the intelligence people and other people who were doing work on the base.
	Oh, you see, now normally this would seem like a Pretty far out story.
	Yeah.
	I mean, just pretty far out.
	But we actually have the officer that went out to first interview him.
	So yes.
	How fascinating is this?
	All right.
	And continue with his story.
	Well, he he did go to this meeting.
	It was I think it was in early 1980.
	First half of 1980.
	He came on to the base and started to give this presentation.
	Now, I was not able to talk to anybody who was at this presentation.
	However, I did talk to a man in the NSA, National Security Agency, who talked to somebody who was at this meeting.
	I said, so when Paul Benowitz came in to do this, to give this presentation, what happened?
	Well, in the first place, actually, they thought he might have something, because he wasn't just some Joe Schmoe.
	He was an electrical physicist, and he had his own company, Thunder Scientific, which manufactured humidity and temperature calibration and things like that, actually for military contractors, among others.
	So they thought maybe that his word would carry a little bit more weight when he started describing these things.
	So this man that was at the meeting said that Benowitz started giving his presentation and started off very slowly and then started in with his, I think these are aliens and alien ships flying around your base and I think they're trying to communicate with each other or us and I'd like to know what you're doing about it or if you know anything about it.
	And the strange thing was that this man told me was that A lot of people, he said, maybe there were maybe 20 people at the meeting to begin with.
	And by the time Benowitz got finished, there were two or three.
	Meaning they walked out?
	Yeah, they walked out.
	I asked him, well, why would they do that?
	I mean, he said, I think they thought it had nothing to do with what they were doing, so they left.
	But there were two or three people that did think it had something to do with what they were doing.
	One of those people was the AFOSI commander, who I believe at that time was Thomas Shea.
	C-S-E-H.
	And an unidentified man from the NSA.
	So by the time he finished this, these two or three people realized that he might be on to something that he wasn't supposed to be.
	And as it turned out, it had very little to do with UFOs and very much to do with secret projects going on at the base.
	Well, that would have been my initial guess, Greg, that it was something at Kirtland going on.
	I mean, hello, it's an Air Force base, probably doing experimental things.
	Why wouldn't that be in Occam's Razor, the very first conclusion anybody would come to?
	Well, because Donowitz was, while he had this business, And he was very good at what he did, and he was a very good electrical physicist.
	A lot of people have said this.
	While he was a very intelligent person... And he was claiming they were aliens.
	Yeah, he had this kind of Achilles heel.
	He was very interested in the UFO phenomenon.
	And granted, those lights flying around, other people saw them and didn't really say anything about them, or if they did, they said, oh, don't worry about it, and people just generally shut up.
	But Benowitz was very interested because he was basically a ufologist, or very interested in UFOs anyway.
	And he became convinced single-mindedly that this was what was going on, and nobody could tell him any different.
	Alright, so at the very end of this story though, it was things going on at Kirtland, or what?
	Yeah, there were things going on there.
	There were quite a few different projects.
	I was able to identify maybe two or three of them that were going on, which were things he was directly looking at, and they didn't want him looking at, because if he could see these things, then anybody could.
	And this was still in the middle of the Cold War, right at the beginning of the Reagan era, 79-80 there.
	What did these things turn out to be?
	Do you know?
	Oh, you want to give them away right here at the beginning?
	Sure.
	Well, yeah, I'm curious, sure.
	Okay, let's see.
	One of the things they were doing there, I'm giving away the book now, but one of the things they were doing there was, there's a very great story about how I found this out, which we'll get into later, partially found this out, but one of the things they were doing there was tracking Soviet spy satellites.
	Because these things would come over, you know, over the base, over the United States all the time.
	You've seen, you know, after the Soviet Union fell, people were, the KGB or somebody, were selling satellite pictures of various places, including Area 51.
	That's right.
	Which had been taken by these satellites.
	They'd come over the United States, generally during the day, I think, because that's where you could see things, and take pictures of the base.
	The U.S.
	government, the Air Force, the Defense Intelligence Agency specifically, knew that they were doing this, and they wanted to find out how they could possibly foil this espionage, this spying.
	They had agents in the Soviet Union.
	A lot of people know this.
	A lot of Soviet agents were here.
	A lot of our agents were in the Soviet Union, posing as citizens.
	Um, doing various things and getting close to defense projects or somewhere in the vicinity of them so that they could report back on them.
	But what they found out was, um, how these satellites worked.
	And they sent back, through various channels, sent back information on these satellites.
	So, the people at Kirtland were basically able to back engineer what was going on, or at least engineer a way to, um, track these things and eventually to even control them.
	You mean to control the Russian satellites?
	Yes.
	I was told.
	It's very hard to find any kind of information on this through Freedom of Information, I think.
	I only had a year to write the book.
	And I had to rely on the testimony of at least a couple people that worked at Kirtland and the suspicions of others.
	All right.
	I have yet to understand what represents the actual lights and craft and things that made Paul Benowitz think that aliens were involved.
	Well, that's... I'll have to go back a little bit.
	In 1979, at the time he was seeing these lights, he was made aware of A very early abduction episode.
	Now, the way this happened... Have you heard of... Well, I'll get to it.
	This woman was driving back from Oklahoma.
	You know, the little panhandle there that sticks and touches New Mexico?
	Yes.
	She was driving back from that panhandle of Oklahoma to her home in North... Western... Sorry, Northeastern New Mexico.
	And during this ride, her and her son saw these giant craft hovering over a field.
	These... She said one was You know, almost football field size, the other one's a little bit smaller, and what they said they saw was a cow being sucked up into the bottom of this craft.
	This is what they remembered.
	I actually have heard that story, yes.
	Yeah, this is the Myrna Hansen story.
	Yes.
	And they also had some missing time.
	Now, back in 1979, this was before Bud Hopkins' book had come out, this was fairly new.
	Fairly new kind of thing for people to be investigating.
	As we know, it might have been going on for quite a long time.
	However, this woman called the New Mexico State Police the next day to try and report it, find out what had happened, if anybody else had seen it.
	As it turns out, about 10 or 15 years later, somebody else had seen these crafts.
	It was a woman.
	Her husband actually was in the New Mexico State Police.
	However, she called the New Mexico State Police.
	They didn't really know what to do with it.
	However, they did know of some guy that was interested.
	One of their officers was interested in this kind of phenomena, what was going on in cattle being mutilated by whoever or whatever does it.
	And this was Gabe Valdez, who you probably have heard of.
	He was a police officer near Dulce, New Mexico, where There had been a lot of cattle mutilations and strange lights flying around, so apparently people in the New Mexico State Police knew about, knew Gabe Valdez as the Weird Stuff Guy.
	So they referred this woman, Myrna, to him.
	And Gabe Valdez had actually met Paul Benowitz at a cattle mutilation conference that the state senator Harrison Schmidt had convened about a year before.
	Well, I hate to rush to this, but if it wasn't aliens abducting these cows or people, then who was it?
	And if it was the Air Force, why?
	Always wanted to know that.
	Well, there's a lot of theories about cattle mutilation.
	I actually, on my show, I interviewed Chris O'Brien.
	Have you talked to him?
	No.
	He wrote a book called The Mysterious Valley.
	And his view is what?
	His view, and a few of the other researchers, well, it's multifaceted.
	It seems like there's a few things that explain many of them, and others, you know, other theories don't.
	It's very mercurical, if you know what I mean.
	Hold on, Greg.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	My guest is Greg Bishop, and in a very few moments, the man he was talking about, who I will not yet name, and we'll get down to cases.
	In the nighttime, I'm Art Bell.
	If the world was on fire, no one could save me but you.
	A strange world designed to make foolish people.
	I've never dreamed that I'd meet somebody like you I've never dreamed that I'd lose somebody like you
	I've never dreamed that I'd lose somebody like you He came from somewhere back in her long ago
	In Santa Fe, the fool comes to try hard to recreate what had yet to be created
	Watching her life, she musters a smile for his nostalgic tears
	Never coming near what he wanted to say, only to realize Never really was.
	She had a place in his life.
	He never made her think twice.
	As she rises to her apology, anybody else would surely know And fortune would go to the good girl
	You can see the wise man has a problem To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
	International callers may recharge by calling your in-country Sprint Access number, pressing Option 5, and dialing toll-free, 800-893-0903.
	800-893-0903. From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	It is this night with Greg Bishop and a kind of a surprise guest coming up in a moment.
	We'll sort of try to put what Greg is trying to say into some sort of logical order in a moment.
	Stay right there.
	Well alright, let's see if we can get to the bottom of what Greg is saying.
	His book is Project Beta, this might help.
	The story of Paul Bennewitz, national security, and the creation of a modern UFO myth by Greg Bishop.
	All right, so Greg, so that we can all understand what's going on here... Would you like me to summarize it?
	If you could.
	All right.
	We have talked about Paul Bennewitz and what he was seeing.
	The Air Force became concerned about what he was seeing because it might compromise some things that they had going on at the base.
	At Kirtland Air Force Base.
	Right.
	And he kept telling them that it was aliens, and surprisingly enough, they didn't tell him any different.
	And eventually, it ended up with him in a mental hospital for about three months in about 1988.
	And a lot of these stories he was told A lot of stories he came up with that were bolstered by the Air Force intelligence people and to some extent the NSA ended up as part of the UFO lore and rumor mill through the 80s and up even to today.
	Was he of sound mind?
	I mean you said he spent some time in a mental institution or was that just some kind of persecution in your view or what?
	No, he was single-minded that he thought there was an alien invasion imminent and the government should do something about it.
	And the government did not try to dissuade him from this because they wanted to know, intelligence specifically, they wanted to know what he knew, how he knew it, who he might be talking to or who was listening to him.
	How they could protect against that in the future, because if you have somebody, just a regular citizen, albeit a fairly intelligent one, doing this, then just about anybody could, including who they were very concerned about, which was the Soviets at the time.
	All right.
	Let's bring our other guest on, and we'll let him give his own name.
	Hi there.
	Hi.
	Welcome to the program.
	What is your name, if you wish to give it?
	Richard Doty.
	Richard, welcome to the program.
	Thank you.
	You were in the Air Force Office of Special Investigation, OSI?
	Yes, I was special agent with the Air Force Office of Special Investigation.
	Okay.
	How did you become involved with this Benowitz case?
	I was informed that Paul Benowitz had called the base And reported some strange occurrences that were happening near Manzano Base, which was a base within Kirtland Air Force Base.
	Housing, at that time, it was sensitive to say, but now it can be disclosed, it was housed at nuclear weapons.
	One of the, probably the largest nuclear weapons storage areas in the Southwest.
	And it took some years on the base.
	And eventually the information got to our office.
	I was the counterintelligence officer for the base.
	All right.
	The information got to my desk and I briefed my commander and we sent a little message up to headquarters and we were tasked with obtaining all the information we could from Paul.
	Paul was seeing things, right?
	He was seeing lights, or what specifically were Paul's claims?
	Actually, the first time I met Paul, he came to the base.
	We actually invited him to the base.
	He went to the base police office, the security police office for the base, and he spoke with a major, excuse me, a captain at the time, who was in charge of the base security, and he gave this Captain, I have some information about what he was seeing from his house.
	He lived in a Foyer Hills area, which was just adjacent to the base perimeter of Manzano Bay.
	Right.
	In the northeast portion of Albuquerque.
	Again, what was he claiming to be seeing?
	He claimed he saw lights, flashing lights, objects flying around Manzano.
	he claimed he saw uh... a
	light shooting out of the sky out of the ground into the sky and then from the sky
	uh... down into the bay and so what he did
	upon himself to do take pictures
	and uh...
	and use some electronic monitoring equipment to monitor
	these strange occurrences the light another thing that he was seen
	So he was sort of like a nosy neighbor by the base.
	That's a good way to put it.
	And an informed nosy neighbor at that.
	A guy who apparently knew what he was doing.
	Yes.
	So you were informed to, you were told then by higher-ups to what?
	Make contact with him and do what?
	Yes.
	We eventually made an appointment myself and another person went out to his house.
	We visited him and we viewed the equipment that he had in his residence.
	You were officer ranked by the way?
	I was a special agent, yes.
	And you went out and saw the equipment he had in the house?
	Yes.
	He had two cameras, movie cameras.
	He had a number of electronic gathering devices that he had pointed towards Manzano.
	And he showed us All the pictures he took, well he didn't show us all at that time, but he showed us some pictures that he had taken, and plus he showed us a lot of the electronic gadgetry that he had.
	Yes.
	And I brought another person along because I wasn't the technical person to understand the electronics that he had, but this other person was and could understand what he had.
	And what we did was we viewed everything, we interviewed him, and then we went back and we made a report and we sent it up to headquarters.
	And what was the substance of your report?
	The report was that this person had sufficient knowledge and the right equipment to tap into sensitive communications equipment and sensitive projects that were occurring on Kirtland.
	I see.
	Alright, somewhere in the mix of all this comes disinformation.
	In other words, you are going to admit tonight, I believe, that you dispensed disinformation.
	Is that true?
	That's absolutely true.
	In the arena of intelligence, you have different types of intelligence.
	You have intelligence gatherers and you have counterintelligence.
	And one task of a counterintelligence division is to make sure that our secrets are protected.
	Got it.
	So here we've got a man who thought that there were aliens among us, as it were, right in his backyard and over the Air Force base that you were working for.
	And so what did you tell him?
	Well, we convinced him We actually had a two-tier way of doing this.
	The first thing we did was we became very interested in everything he had.
	We wanted him to think that we were very, very concerned with everything that he had.
	In fact, at some point later on, NSA became involved in this because they were extremely
	interested in some of the equipment that he had because he was actually tapping into a
	particular type of communications that he shouldn't have been able to do.
	And so NSA wanted to know how he did that.
	So we became very good friends, and that's one thing you do in counterintelligence.
	Become friends with a person, you start vetting them.
	Makes sense, yes.
	Yeah, and then eventually, then you start feeding them information.
	And what we did was we convinced him that what he was picking up wasn't anything classified
	from the base, but in fact it probably was of alien origin.
	Bye.
	My goodness.
	Did you really?
	And how did you do that?
	What did you say to him to convince him of that?
	Well, we didn't have to say really anything.
	He had the forethought already that what he was picking up, he had an idea.
	Initially, he thought maybe it was classified.
	He told us, listen, if I tapped into something, Let me know.
	Well, we weren't going to do that because we don't know who his friends were, and he wasn't a trusted person.
	So what we did was we said, well, I think what you tapped into is something unknown.
	So let's work together on this, Paul.
	So we did, and what we did was we were using everything that he gathered, and we were just turning it around and convincing him.
	What he was looking at wasn't anything from the base, but it was Alien in origin.
	Alien in origin, yes.
	So, you hardly had to say anything, sort of a wink and a nod perhaps at the right moment or sort of a confirming smile or nothing more serious than that?
	That's exactly, that's it.
	Initially, we had to do some other things eventually down the road, but initially... Like what?
	Eventually down the road, he claimed That there was a alien base at Archuleta Peak or Archuleta Mountain up near Dulce, New Mexico in the northern portion of New Mexico.
	Many people have thought that, yes.
	Right.
	And so what we did, he kept going up there.
	He was a pilot.
	Paul was a pilot.
	He would fly up there and he would photograph things.
	And he was convinced that the things that he was photographing was actually an alien base.
	So what we did was we went ahead and fortified his thought by putting a fence up there around certain things, bringing in some helicopters from Fort Carson, Colorado Army helicopters, which, by the way, they were using that area as a training base also.
	I mean, it was a classified, at that time, it's not anymore, but at that time it was a classified training area for special operations missions.
	And they were up there, they were using that area.
	So there was already helicopters flying around up there.
	Well, what'd you do, paint him dark jet black or something?
	We had a couple black helicopters and we had some things planted onto the ground around Archuleta Peak and just to convince him that what he was actually looking at, he thought it was an alien base.
	So, it served your purpose to... Absolutely.
	There was probably no other way to stop him from doing what he was doing, so simply convince him that his suspicions are correct, and you have somebody who's just regarded as a nut, and the whole thing is dismissed.
	Is that the rough idea?
	That's a rough idea.
	It's easier for us to have done it that way than to...
	I get a warrant, search warrant, and a seizure warrant, and seize all his property, and seize his equipment, and, you know, what would that do?
	That would cause a lot of publicity.
	Of course.
	And the wrong type of publicity that they wanted.
	Well, Richard, many of us want to know how such operations are done.
	And I guess what I'd like to know, Richard, is how universal you think this kind of tactic is.
	It is.
	It is quite unique.
	At least at that time.
	I'm out of the business now.
	I haven't been out for a long time.
	I know during the 60s and 70s and into the 80s it was widespread.
	It was a primary tactic used by US intelligence for a number of things.
	We're not just talking about UFOs or aliens.
	We're talking about a lot of different things.
	You can use disinformation To disinform anyone about anything if you play your cards right.
	Now one thing about disinformation, and this wasn't the only operation we did against somebody with UFO information, one of the things is giving them enough information, some information that is credible, for them to lead them along the path.
	Oh yes, well the very best lies of course have nuggets of truth buried at their center.
	Exactly.
	And this is an art that is taught.
	I mean, I didn't come up with all this myself.
	I was trained.
	Did you go to disinformation school?
	Well, it was a counterintelligence and counterespionage school, but that's what they taught you.
	So there was a, well, gee, lots of people believed in underground, and still do, that there's an underground base at Dulcey, right?
	Yes.
	And I suppose lots of people still think there's something going on Uh, in and around, uh, uh, Kirtland Air Force Base.
	I, I'm sure they probably still do.
	There, there are, uh, there are some, uh, myths that, uh, float over the base, and they still do.
	I mean, there's people, especially old-timers that live around there, they still think that there's, uh, underground base, and they still think that there were, there's a, uh, a UFO hidden, uh, inside Montana.
	Mm-hmm, I've heard that, yes.
	So, this whole thing, then, is one gigantic myth, and it's a myth that you admit, as a disinformation specialist, that you planted.
	Well, it just wasn't me.
	I mean, it was a team.
	I mean, I couldn't have done this all myself.
	Do you feel any guilt for this?
	Later on, yes.
	Absolutely.
	It was meant to be a short-term operation to disinform him and then kind of walk away from it.
	And let Paul think and do... This information, if you play your cards right, if the operation's right, all you have to do is plant the seed and walk away, and that person carries it on.
	He informs others, and the others believe him, and it just blossoms.
	Well, are you aware that, according to Greg, Paul spent some time in a psychiatric facility?
	Yes, and I visited Paul a number of times.
	I became good friends with Paul.
	Towards the end of this operation, I tried to convince Paul.
	Now, this wasn't me as an OSI agent.
	This was me as a person, because I was concerned about Paul's health.
	I was trying to convince Paul, and I went through his son to do this, that everything we told you before Paul isn't true.
	And I explained to him why we were doing it, but he never believed me.
	He said, no, I can't believe you, Rick, because... Well, right, lied to me once, and lied to me twice, you know, that kind of thing.
	Yes.
	Right?
	So, I can see why that, you know, he would just think you were in official denial.
	You know, emergency mode, we've got to deny all this.
	Yeah.
	Because he had bought into the first thing anyway, and you just bolstered that.
	Yes, that's exactly it.
	I visited Paul right up until probably eight months before his death.
	I became friends with him, took him to dinner.
	I tried to talk to him away from that subject and he was totally convinced.
	During this time period, Paul became friends with some other people within the community, within the UFO community, and they were reinforcing on him that it was all true.
	Richard, how many other cases like Paul's were you involved in when you worked for OSI?
	Three.
	Three other cases?
	Four total.
	These were all cases where you dispensed, intentionally dispensed, disinformation on this kind of subject, or was it different things?
	No, pertaining to just UFOs, it was the four operations.
	Four operations.
	Was one of the other ones with Linda Howe?
	Yes, the other one was Linda Howe.
	Holy mackerel.
	Alright, well, I'm going to want to hear a lot about that, Richard.
	Are you willing to talk about the disinformation fed to Linda?
	Sure.
	All right.
	My goodness.
	All right, gentlemen.
	Let me ask, Richard, when was that?
	Can you recall?
	In 680... I believe it was 8384 timeframe.
	8384.
	Yeah.
	I believe it was 83-84 timeframe.
	Linda did a very good piece on cattle mutilation some years before that.
	Oh, yeah.
	Well, listen, let's take a break right here.
	You two hold on.
	This will give somebody time to call Linda up and say, Linda, you better turn on the radio.
	Disinformation.
	Do we really do that?
	Do you ever doubt it?
	Cause I love the way that you're stopping your whole everything
	you A band is going dixie, double ball time.
	You feel alright, when you hear the music play.
	Well now you step inside, but you don't see too many faces.
	Coming in out of the rain, they hear the jazz go down.
	You keep on trying, but you really don't know why.
	Baby, when you need a smile, you never shatter.
	I didn't know a way you would come to me Baby, you'll see
	The love's too pretty, baby Who's gonna hold me through the night?
	The love's too pretty, mama Who's always there to make it?
	The love's too pretty Who's gonna love you, love you?
	Who's gonna love the love you?
	Who's gonna love you, love you?
	Who's gonna love you?
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	800-893-0903. From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM
	with Art Bell.
	Welcome to the seedier side of ufology, folks.
	My guest is Greg Bishop, and he has brought with him Richard Dowdy, who was with the OSI Office of Special Investigation and apparently disinformation.
	Target number two to be discussed.
	he dropped the name linda howell few moments ago and of course we just can't let that go so
	we'll be right back well as i was saying in the first hour you just never know
	what you can run into on talk radio
	It's just, it's one of those wild things.
	It's not like any other medium in the world.
	Here we've run straight into a disinformation agent.
	And I want to make sure that I've got your name, I'm pronouncing your name correctly.
	Is it Richard Doty?
	Yep, that's correct.
	That is correct.
	Richard, it's not every day you get to talk to somebody who freely admits they're a disinformation specialist.
	Anyway, you dropped the name Linda Moulton Howe before the break.
	So what in the world did you do to Linda?
	Well, in 1983, she did a cattle mutilation story, I think, in the late 70s with a Denver station.
	She used to work for a Denver station, and she went on her own.
	Linda was working on a UFO special and for some reason the government didn't want her to air that and so we worked an operation against her.
	Unfortunately, it wasn't a very successful operation because although the television special was never aired, it somewhat backfired on us.
	Tell me about the operation.
	Well, Linda was invited to Kirtland Air Force Base and I was the primary agent.
	There were two other agents involved in it, not just me.
	We invited her to Kirtland.
	We showed her some information pertaining to UFOs, showed her a document and tried to bring her and hook her on a hook.
	She took it initially and then we carried on.
	I've had contact with her over a period of time.
	I'm meeting her at different locations and providing her with some information.
	You were doing this on official orders?
	On official orders, yes.
	Absolutely.
	Alright.
	Linda was indeed, I guess, about to do a special on cattle mutilation.
	She's been concentrating on that for years.
	What was it exactly you tried to sell her?
	We tried to sell her the promise that we were going to assist her with information.
	That we were going to actually provide her with some legitimate information for her special.
	But what we were doing was delaying it.
	We also had an operation, the government, not just me, I didn't have anything to do with this other operation, with another entity on the East Coast, with one of the broadcasting companies.
	And they were doing something different there, which I'm not really privy to what they were doing there.
	Was that with HBO, Rick?
	I believe it was HBO, yes.
	Because HBO was the one that was sponsoring the special.
	Linda kept telling them she was going to get some film from you and, like you said, stringing them along.
	Oh God, I remember that.
	Linda told me about that.
	And HBO scrapped the special because she never got the film they thought was going to be part of the crowning achievement of the documentary.
	And that was somebody you knew?
	Richard?
	Somebody I knew as far as feeding her that information.
	I was doing it.
	You were personally doing it?
	Well, it wasn't just me.
	There were three other people involved.
	And the motivation, again, for the government ordering you to do this was to delay the airing of the special?
	Yes.
	There's no way we can know you're not feeding us disinformation now.
	Well, I'm out of the business.
	I've been out of the business for a long time.
	I have no reason to be disinforming you now.
	Linda is aware of this.
	I have had a number of contacts with Linda Howell over the years, and she's aware of this.
	But what we were also trying to do Well, Richard, you must know a lot more about this.
	In other words, if you're trying to get Linda to delay release of a special about animal mutilations, maybe you can tell me something about animal mutilations.
	to leader astray well it the richard you must know a lot more about this in other
	words if you're trying to get linda to delay release of a special about
	animal mutilations uh... maybe you can tell me something about
	animal mutilations or did your job not include the need to know that
	uh... my job did not uh... have anything to do with uh...
	well i didn't happen specific knowledge at that time to uh... understand what the government was doing
	uh... with with cattle or
	Do you now?
	Well, yes, I do.
	We might want to leave that for another day.
	Why?
	Well, it's really a complicated... Well, I would like to know what, if it's, so you're telling me it is the government mutilating and abducting these cattle?
	Only, only, there was a small operation, and I learned this later.
	I had no official knowledge of this during the time.
	I didn't have a clearance for it then.
	I learned this later.
	I learned this after I got out of OSI.
	In fact, I was a civilian when I learned this, and I learned this in a room with six or seven other intelligence officers who were also retired and telling stories.
	Alright, well tell me a story.
	What was our government doing with these cows?
	Our government was collecting certain things from these cattle.
	Now it wasn't just cattle, actually, it was horses and And they were using it to create some kind of a bio prevention system, a biological agent prevention system.
	And they were injecting these cows and then they would come back and take certain organs from these cows.
	And they developed a unique method of doing it by draining the blood first and then taking certain organs from... Alright, maybe you can explain the part of this that I've never been able to grasp, Richard.
	And that is, why would the government need to do this to farmers' cows when they could easily get their own cows?
	That's why it's a complicated system.
	It's again, it stemmed around Wanting, the government was doing this, but they wanted everybody to think it was something else, some other entity doing it.
	They wanted people to think it was aliens.
	I didn't know that at the time.
	I learned this later.
	I had nothing to do with that operation, so I had no first-hand knowledge then of that.
	So you now believe, though, that the reports of cattle mutilations and all the rest of it are indeed true, but are indeed done by our government?
	Well, no.
	Well, initially, yes, because this operation, the government operation, ceased in 1982.
	From, I think, 70-something, 77, 78, until 82.
	But you're not in the government now.
	No, I'm not.
	So you can't really know what they're doing.
	No, I don't, really.
	But I know that the government operation ceased in 82.
	Now, if there were cattle mutilations after that, according to my sources who were involved in that operation then, It wasn't the government doing it.
	So, we don't know who was doing it after that.
	I also have received allegations on the computer where I get messages here, My Fast Plus, that you fed Stan Friedman disinformation.
	Is that true?
	No.
	No, I never had anything to do with Stan Friedman.
	Did you hear anything about it?
	Did you hear anything about disinformation being fed to him, perhaps by others?
	No.
	No.
	I never heard it.
	Bill Moore asked me that back ten, twelve years ago, and I said, no, I had nothing to do with Stan Friedman.
	I had no operation against Stan Friedman.
	Paul Benowitz, Linda Howe, and two other groups of people that we had an operation against.
	The other two, I didn't play a big role in those operations.
	The one I played a big role in was Paul Benowitz and Linda.
	Is there any doubt in your mind that our government is still doing exactly that?
	There's somebody doing Richard Doty's past job in today's armed services.
	Oh, I'm positive somebody's doing it.
	It's such a great method of laying people astray or moving them astray.
	Speaking today in 2005, I'm not proud of what I did.
	I mean, I had a job to do, and I did my job.
	I mean, just like you served in the Air Force.
	I know you did, Art.
	That's right.
	You had a job in the Air Force.
	You did your job in the Air Force.
	That's right.
	I had a job in the Air Force.
	I did my job.
	I followed orders.
	Everything we did was following orders.
	We would— Perhaps so, but my orders never included orders to—never—to a lot of people.
	Were you an intelligence guard?
	No.
	I was a medic in the Air Force.
	Okay.
	Well, that wouldn't have been part of your job, I guess.
	Well, exactly right.
	That's what I'm saying.
	That's the difference.
	I followed orders, but those orders never came down intentionally ordering me to lie to somebody.
	Well, no, I didn't.
	I do feel the way you do now.
	I do.
	I really do.
	Then I didn't.
	I mean, I didn't.
	I was a 28, 29-year-old.
	I didn't think of it that way.
	It was an order and it was an operation and we were doing what we were told to do.
	Yeah, I'm not passing judgment on you.
	I'm just trying to understand all of what you did and how it might relate to what's going on today.
	I mean, the whole question of you followed... Did you see the ABC special the other night?
	Yes, I did.
	They said the whole Roswell thing was a myth.
	They reduced it to a myth.
	Well, I tell you, maybe they know.
	Maybe they know, Richard, because maybe they cooked it up, huh?
	No.
	No.
	There's too much information that's already been readily available, and there's too much information that hasn't been released yet, that a lot of people with intelligence know about, that can show that Roswell wasn't in there.
	That Roswell actually happened.
	Yes, but what was it that happened according to these sources and people you know?
	It happened just like the myth said, basically, is that an alien spacecraft crashed northwest of Roswell, south of Corona.
	And according to what you found out from your years in the Air Force, that's what you believe?
	Yes.
	One of the things that happened to me In early 1979, I was briefed in to this counterintelligence program.
	In order to run a disinformation program, you have to know the truth.
	And we were briefed in, and we were given a certain level of clearance that gave us access to the past history of Earth's visitation by extraterrestrials.
	But that's why I asked you about the counts, the truth about the counts.
	How could you Spread disinformation, your own words, without knowing the truth, which you said you didn't know.
	Not about the cows.
	No, no, not about... You're talking about the cattle mutilation.
	Yes.
	The documentary Linda was doing was a UFO documentary.
	It wasn't on cattle mutilation, that particular one.
	HBO special was about UFOs.
	It wasn't cattle mutilation.
	Okay.
	But you're telling me, and I do recall hearing this story from Linda, that you had promised this incredible footage And HBO had bought into it based on that, and your representations to Linda, and then, of course, you didn't produce, and it all fell through.
	Well, there was another part of this that was occurring within HBO by some other people that, you know, another part of that operation was some intelligence people were talking to HBO, and they were doing something different through HBO, so it all, and the final outcome They dropped it because of the footage that we promised her.
	They had done this before to Robert Emmenegger in the late 70s when they were doing a documentary.
	Early 70s.
	Early 70s, I'm sorry.
	This was before Richard was in the Air Force.
	Strangely enough, to Walt Disney, I think, in the 50s.
	Oh, really?
	Exactly.
	Exactly, he did.
	And it was OSI that did it.
	We were good.
	OSI was really good in this.
	We perfected this.
	And we taught other agencies that technique.
	And so how widespread would you guess it is now, Richard?
	I'd say it was still widespread.
	I listen to your show quite often.
	You have a lot of good guests on there that have some great information that's legitimate, and then you have some that it just sounds to me like they've been brainwashed.
	Yeah, you're absolutely right, Richard, and I haven't yet figured out where to put you and Greg.
	That's a question I asked Richard very early on.
	You know, when they came in and vetted you on this information on UFOs and the government's involvement with them, how do you know they weren't disinforming you because you said you never saw an alien body?
	Well, that's an awfully good question.
	In fact, I would like to understand how that vetting went.
	Did they actually inform you?
	How much did they tell you, Richard?
	Okay, what they did was they took me into a room in an Air Force Special Security office.
	There was a colonel.
	and the civilian, there was two of us in there at that time to be briefed.
	They sat us down, they gave us a slide presentation of, a short slide presentation of what
	we were going to get and some other things, and then they showed us a film. It
	was a 16mm film classified,
	code word classified.
	Which started, and it was a narration of Roswell.
	I mean, what we were watching there was the actual film of the recovery operation in Roswell.
	You're telling me you saw film of the real operation in Roswell?
	Absolutely.
	It was part of this briefing film.
	It was the real thing.
	How do you know that?
	Well, I mean, I had no reason to doubt it.
	Why would they be feeding us That disinformation.
	Well, Greg asked the same question just a minute ago.
	How do you know that what you were getting was a real McCoy?
	That you weren't being fed disinformation yourself?
	After all, your bosses were better at it than you.
	That's clearly possible, but by other things that occurred later on, and some of the things that if you want me to go into, I can.
	I do.
	Yes, I do.
	Well, we were briefed into it then.
	I mean, they showed us this.
	They gave us that briefing.
	We had to sign her life away.
	You said some people couldn't handle it and they kind of dropped out.
	Absolutely.
	There were a number of people that dropped out of this program because they just couldn't handle it because of either a personality conflict or a religious conflict or something else.
	If you signed your life away, what are you doing on the radio talking to a national audience about it?
	Because 25 years have passed.
	This brings up another point.
	I sat in a room with several OSI officials some years ago, and I voiced my concern about the fact that why can't you tell the truth now after all these years?
	There's no reason why the government can't tell the truth.
	They really can't.
	And they said, well, we're not going to tell the truth.
	We can't tell the truth.
	There's a lot of reasons why.
	I said, but you're disinforming everybody.
	Even today, especially the mogul thing about Roswell.
	That's a bunch of baloney.
	And now, you're telling me that the government doesn't have anything.
	So, I'm going to go out and tell them, yes, the government does have it.
	Some years ago, I was on a... I was on a... They did an investigation on me.
	The FBI did an investigation on me because of the MJ-12 document from 1988 or 1989.
	The FBI was after you?
	Well, they did an investigation.
	They thought I disclosed those documents.
	Was this as a result of Phil Klass bringing up the fact that you had willfully disclosed government secrets?
	Is that what Phil said?
	Phil said that and many other things, but I told him, listen, I'll make a deal.
	If you let me Go to the Pentagon right now, right this second.
	You told who this?
	The FBI and some other Air Force officials.
	All right.
	You let me go on the Pentagon right now.
	I can take you to where these documents and this information about the UFOs, about the extraterrestrial visitation to Earth is.
	You just let me go there.
	If you don't think it's there, then you don't have anything to hide.
	Let me go there.
	And how did they react?
	Well, of course they said, no, we can't do that.
	And then they let me go.
	I mean, they just...
	Alright, hold on, I'm not letting you go yet.
	Richard Doty is my guest, along with Greg Bishop.
	And I don't know, I think we're learning all kinds of things.
	But is it the double or triple twist?
	I don't know.
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	this is coast to coast a m with art bell and only on talk radio do you stumble
	into something like this greg bishop and richard dodie are my guests
	richard is a self-admitted
	disinformation agent or certainly was
	I had a call during the break, a very interesting call during the break, from none other than Ed Daines.
	And while he didn't want to go on the air, he affirmed that, oh yes, those lies are told, and those lies have little nuggets of truth that are expanded upon and then twisted As any really good lie is, and the government does this to protect the programs that they have ongoing.
	He said, what you're hearing is the truth.
	Just thought I'd let you know.
	My guests, Greg Bishop and Richard Doty.
	Richard and Greg, both of you, welcome back.
	Thank you.
	Thanks, Art.
	Greg, I guess you had an opportunity to interview Richard.
	How did you get on to Richard, as it were?
	I got in touch with him through Bill Moore, who's another of the main players in the story, who we haven't really talked that much about yet.
	Do you both have something to do with Bill Moore?
	Richard, I think, still communicates with him.
	I live in Los Angeles, where Bill does, and I see him Probably once every few weeks.
	He retired from Ufology after making the announcement that he had become an asset to the Air Force Intelligence Service and Ufology kind of turned on him at that point.
	That was in Las Vegas at the MUFON convention in 1989.
	He admitted that he had become an asset?
	Yes.
	To Air Force Intelligence?
	Yes.
	It's an interesting story too because he was recruited As an insider in the UFO community who could tell the Air Force what people were thinking, what they were talking about, what they thought things were.
	You know, what are these lights?
	What do people think?
	Do they think they're aliens?
	Do they think they're some kind of airplane or what?
	We need to know these kind of things.
	And they recruited him by disinforming him.
	In what manner?
	The first thing they did was, and I think Richard knows about this, They gave him a document that referred to something called the Silver Sky Project.
	Oh, that rings bells for me.
	Does it really?
	Yes, it does, actually.
	That involved some sort of multiple witness UFO sighting in southern New Mexico, actually around Roswell, in the 60s.
	They said, why don't you... the exchange was, you become an asset and we'll give you inside UFO information.
	But obviously you can't tell anybody you're doing this.
	You will report on people, tell us what they're thinking.
	I don't believe he ever disinformed anybody personally.
	He says he hasn't, and I tend to believe him because I haven't found any evidence of it.
	But they gave him this document and said, here's your first bit of information that we're going to release to you.
	How do you know it wasn't a Richard Doty handing it to him?
	A. Richard Doty.
	I didn't say THE Richard Doty.
	He didn't at the time.
	Because as it turned out, this document was kind of a test.
	He went and checked up on these names, these places, and none of the people existed.
	So he came back to his contact, which a lot of people know as Falcon.
	That's what Bill Moore and his partner began to refer to this guy.
	He was apparently from the Defense Intelligence Agency.
	He actually was the head of, as far as I know, the head of the operation against Benowitz.
	The orders came down from him.
	But Bill came back with this document and said, look here, these people don't exist.
	What's going on here?
	And Falcon and Richard, were you there when this happened?
	I was involved in this, yes.
	I was tasked with Bill Moore was recruited by another person within the Defense Intelligence Agency to provide, as a difference of disinformation, he was recruited as an asset.
	That's what within the intelligence community they call it, a spy, a person that's working for you as an asset.
	Bill came to New Mexico and I was tasked with contacting Bill.
	I think he did a radio clip on a talk show channel.
	He was going around doing publicity for the Roswell incident, the book he wrote in 1979.
	Anyway, I met Bill, and all my job was to make contact with him, get some information, and tell him that I was a friend of the person in Washington, which we did.
	And then that was it, as far as I went.
	But then I later became involved in this operation because Bill came back to me, because he said, hey, I got some information here, and this information is bull.
	And he wanted me to check it.
	Well, the information that he'd gotten from Washington was, in fact, bull.
	But I didn't know that it was given to him in a disinformation operation until I contacted Headquarters, and then I found out that, yeah, they were running him as an asset.
	They were feeding him, like Greg said, they were feeding him with disinformation, but Bill was pretty smart.
	Yeah, this was a test.
	He brought it back, and the person he gave it to, I thought it was, he told me it was you and this DIA man, but maybe it wasn't.
	Anyway, he said that as soon as he said, this is a load of BS, none of these people exist, this DIA man said, good, you passed the test.
	What they wanted to do was find somebody who wouldn't immediately go start spouting this big discovery to a bunch of ufologists.
	To check up on it first, be careful about what he said, be careful about what he did, and go about it as an investigator would to find out if something was true before they said anything about it.
	My God, what a mess.
	A lot of people believe that the U.S.
	government is Engaging in a slow release campaign of information about UFOs and the presence of extraterrestrials on Earth.
	Do you believe that's true, Richard?
	Yes.
	In fact, during my briefing way back in 79, that was made aware to us that the government had tried to in the early 50s in one of the first movies that Where the government actually cooperated with the movie industry was the day they were still.
	I think it was in 50-whatever, one or two, whatever.
	And then they cooperated.
	In fact, they had placed Air Force intelligence people with some knowledge as an aide or an advisor to some motion picture companies making movies about the subject.
	And they were trying to condition the public For a release, but unfortunately I guess somewhere along the line different administrations within the government decided that wasn't a wise idea.
	You mean an actual implication that a real elected official is in charge of any of this?
	Well I don't know.
	That was way above my pay grade.
	I don't know that.
	They have a lot of people around them and so that kind of shapes the policy I think.
	The cabinet, the appointments for that administration, etc.
	But at some point you're saying, Richard, at least, they were preparing the public for the big story.
	Yes, that's what we were told in the briefing eventually.
	And I can remember growing up, I was, let me say this, I was never interested in the subject of UFOs growing up.
	Never had that, not the slightest interest.
	My brother, Who I roomed with.
	He was the fanatic.
	He had these old True Magazines.
	He would read everything that he could get his hands on about the subject.
	And I never had any interest in it.
	Right up to the time that I was briefed in 1979, I had no interest in the subject.
	Well, why you then?
	I don't know why.
	Well, there's some reasons why, and I'm not going to go into detail, but there's a couple Uh, uh, reasons I found later, and one that dealt with a couple relatives that were in the service.
	But, uh, I was probably the least informed about the subject at the time I was being briefed.
	And I had the same question that... Well, I have the same question that Greg did.
	Why you?
	I want to know more.
	Why you?
	There must be some... I, I was selected, uh, when I got to Kirtland, I was assigned as a counterintelligence officer for the base, because I'd went through some special training.
	And I had been briefed in a number of different programs in order to know, I had different levels of security clearances, in order to know what was going on at Kirtland Air Force Base.
	And there was a huge number of classified projects going on at Kirtland.
	At Kirtland, at the Air Force Weapons Laboratory, at San Diego Laboratory, up at Los Alamos.
	And I had to know what these projects were in order to safeguard them.
	Richard, I have a question for you.
	There's a lot of, you know, big names in ufology.
	You've dropped a couple yourself.
	Linda Moulton, for example.
	My friend Whitley Streber.
	Oh gosh, you know, the list would go on and on and on.
	It'd be a very long list.
	Richard, how many of these big-time ufologists, names we would know, so to speak, have been approached by people who were in your line of work?
	I don't know of any other but Linda.
	Only the ones that you dealt with.
	What I'm asking is how many do you think have been approached with disinformation?
	I think probably a good number of prominent ufologists were approached at one time or the other.
	And probably some of them took took the bait and some of them said, you know, screw you,
	walk away.
	One of the things I want to say about Linda is that operation against Linda wasn't a total
	success because our secondary mission was to get her away from the subject, but that
	just had the opposite effect.
	Linda was such a good researcher herself.
	Yeah, well, that's Linda.
	She is a good researcher.
	And you're not going to take her away from the subject.
	You might delay her a little bit, as you apparently did, but you're not going to, uh-uh, she's like a dog with bones.
	Exactly.
	And what she did was she turned around and developed her own sources in high-level places within the government.
	And one of them I eventually found out, but all during my contacts with Linda, I would give her information and she would come back to me and she'd say, Rick, this is baloney.
	And I look at her like, wait a minute, you're not supposed to say that.
	And then I go back and do some checking and find out that, hey, she got some, she had some kind of verification someplace.
	We got a leak here in the system.
	And I found out some years later that she had some very, very high level sources herself.
	What I am concerned about, though, is Ufology is having a difficult enough time as it is keeping stories straight.
	And if the government is out there intentionally twisting them, and they've approached more high-level people in ufology than not, then you have to worry about the general credibility of a lot of the stories that you're told.
	Well, that's why the government's doing it.
	To lead the people astray.
	I mean, that's one reason.
	And that's why I don't support it anymore.
	Uh, you know, it upset me what happened to Paul.
	I mean, I went and talked to Paul about it, trying to convince him against my, my commander's orders.
	He's telling me, Hey, he doesn't have a clearance.
	You can't go tell him it didn't happen.
	But he did anyways, because I was concerned about Paul.
	And I realized years later was, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't, uh, you were concerned about his mental condition, right?
	And you had good cause to be.
	And I'm sure there's a lot of ufologists, and I hear them on your show.
	I listen to yours and George's show.
	I hear people that are probably legitimate, that they have a lot of good information, and then they all of a sudden bring up some information that is That is the only that I heard that was being spread.
	I was just about to ask that, Richard.
	In the early 80s, yeah.
	Are there a lot of times when I'll have a guest on, and they'll say something, and you'll say, I know where that came from.
	Exactly.
	Absolutely.
	Many, many, many, many times.
	And I hear often information from some of your guests that was, and probably still is, highly, highly classified.
	Especially some of these reverse engineering operations, the anti-matter ones that started back in the 70s and 80s that I was involved with trying to protect.
	And some of these other high-tech operations that I hear on your show that I'm saying, wow, this stuff is still classified, I thought.
	But these people know about it.
	Do you think that's dangerous?
	I think some of it is, but not as much as during the Cold War.
	We didn't want the Soviets to hear and know about some of our operations.
	So we had a two-front operation going.
	We had to disinform the ufologists and the people that had some of this information, and we also had to disinform the Soviets.
	That's why we had It wasn't just me doing this, there were hundreds and hundreds of agents involved in this.
	Some of the Soviets pretended to be ufologists and tried to vacuum up information that way as well.
	Absolutely.
	We ran an operation in Europe against the Soviets who were trying to portray themselves as UFO experts.
	And they were KGB, but they were trying to get into the UFO community.
	Why wouldn't you have been best friends with Phil Klass?
	Why wouldn't Phil Klass have just served to, you know, you could have fed him all kinds of things, I would think.
	Because Phil Klass, in the time period that I was involved in the information, in the disinformation of the counterintelligence arena, I didn't know Phil Klass.
	I didn't meet him until afterwards.
	And then Phil Klass started spreading all these lies about me.
	saying i got in trouble in europe i was court-martialed all these things with
	absolutely no no credibility but what i found later was that he was
	he was doing that at the direction
	from government people trying to discredit me because i was going to go
	forth but i decided not to look at you've never heard me on the
	talk show you haven't heard me on a lecture circuit i've never heard
	anywhere that's all i know i've i've i've kept my mouth shut
	I've stayed quiet.
	Why?
	Because I'm satisfied with the truth.
	I know the truth.
	I don't have to sit here and portray and tell everybody in the world what the truth is because I know the truth.
	I know what the truth was when I got out.
	Now, I don't know what's happened since.
	I haven't been up to date.
	I haven't been updated other than with some sources that are still within the government.
	Alright.
	Bluntly stated what was the truth when you got out.
	Roswell happened.
	Roswell was real?
	It was real.
	We had an alien that was in captivity up until 1951.
	He was kept at Kirtland and he was kept at Los Alamos.
	He died in the latter part of 1951.
	Linda Howell interviewed that alien's handling person.
	It was an Air Force officer.
	Yes, she mentioned it in her book.
	Yeah.
	You saw the film, so you saw... I saw the film.
	That means you saw the alien.
	I saw the alien.
	I saw... And you would describe this alien in what way?
	It's the... He was about three foot, eight inches tall.
	He had the large eyes.
	He's a typical gray-looking one that you see now.
	They're portraying... He didn't have a thumb and four fingers.
	He actually was portrayed, almost depicted perfectly, on that program back in, I think, in 1988.
	UFO?
	UFO cover-up live.
	Cover-up live, yeah.
	In fact, his actual diagram was provided to a source through Warwick Patterson.
	I mean, that was right there on the television.
	And he died in 1951.
	Well, that whole show was a whole disinformation operation.
	Because at the end, Robert Collins or somebody there, one of the other agents that was in shadow there with the voice disguise, said that the aliens like Tibetan music and strawberry ice cream.
	And at that point, everybody shut down and said, this is ridiculous.
	You know, the truth about that is, that's exactly what was written.
	That was exactly what was written.
	And the red book is our history of the extra-terrestrial visitation.
	That's true.
	That's not a lie.
	That's true.
	I know it turned people off, but exactly, that's true.
	It is.
	It gives people the truth, and that turns them off, because it's just so unbelievable.
	But that worked as disinformation, because it turned people off, but that's the truth.
	That alien liked ice cream.
	He liked strawberry ice cream.
	They didn't have teeth.
	They couldn't chew.
	Everything they took in had to be fluid.
	They didn't have to.
	All right.
	Listen.
	Hold it right there.
	I wouldn't let you go for all the world.
	Richard, can you hang in there?
	Sure.
	And you too, Greg?
	Sure.
	Good.
	Everybody hold on.
	You don't get ones like this that often.
	From the high desert in the middle of the night, I'm Art Bell, and this, of course, is Coast to Coast AM.
	The mountains high and the valleys so deep, can't get across to the other side. Don't you give up, baby, don't
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	Please let me over, can I get him? Nothing but a heart is ever a thing. Nothing but a heart and a tear, all of the
	way.
	This journey is so wasteful that I just can't quit. Please let me over, can I get him?
	I got a lot of those heartaches. I got a lot of those tear drops. Heartache, tear drops, all of the way. Nothing but a
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	It may be fool's gold, I don't know, but Greg Bishop and Richard Doedeer here are saying some absolutely incredible things.
	eight nine three zero nine zero three from coast to coast and worldwide on the internet
	this is coast to coast am with art bell and a pot of gold it is too uh it may be fool's gold i don't
	know but greg bishop and richard dozier here saying some absolutely incredible things nothing
	short of incredible that a very great deal of what you hear in ufology could be fed to the
	the ufologist directly from the U.S.
	government.
	That's what Richard Doty did.
	And that's what may be going on right now.
	Rick, all the way down in Florida, would like me to ask the why question.
	He says the why question is, why is the government still holding back all this alien UFO info?
	Either one of you want to try to answer that?
	Well, I'm going to say that I think that they know what's going on and they probably don't quite know what to do with it.
	What do you think, Rick?
	Yeah, a lot of the information is to protect the technology.
	There's some things that we got from them, from our visitors, that we're trying to perfect.
	And that has to be safeguarded.
	And I agree with that.
	But I don't agree that just the mere fact that we were visited should be held up.
	Rick in Florida agreed that some of that should be released.
	Aria, Richard, how do you get a little pregnant?
	I mean... I know I... Well, if they would have done... if the government would have done what they should have done back in the fifties, by the slow release of the information and conditioning the public, we wouldn't be... we wouldn't have that problem today.
	But they didn't do that.
	Why not?
	I don't know.
	I wasn't around back then, and I... I just know that the... I guess the governing body of of this information decided that they kept putting it off and at some point they kept lying, kept saying they didn't have it, they didn't have it, we don't have it.
	Yes, we do.
	No, no, we don't have it.
	Well, you know, there's people in power and they like to stay in power and part of that power is knowing something nobody else knows.
	Exactly.
	That's a good point there.
	But you were the one promoting exactly that policy of we have it, we don't have it, it's true, it's trash, it's baloney, or then it's real.
	I mean, kind of going... You're right.
	Right?
	Absolutely.
	Exactly.
	I was doing that.
	Absolutely.
	That was our job.
	I mean, there were, like I said, hundreds of agents that spanned out across the United States, and that's what our job was.
	But it wasn't to disinform people on UFOs because of the aliens.
	In your case, apparently, it was because you were protecting things that were going on, projects at Kirtland at the time.
	Exactly.
	Our job had nothing to do... We never were told, hey, now, we don't want the public to know about UFOs, about aliens.
	That never surfaced.
	Well, you did say you were shown a film, though, of what actually happened at Roswell, and you had to sign a form that, you know, signed your life away.
	Well it just wasn't Roswell, it was our history, United States history of involvement with the ETV.
	And let me tell you something, there was one of your guests one time some years ago, I don't know exactly how long ago I was listening to it, that got it right.
	If you look at government, which most of our, which are still classified, most of the government documents, They don't refer to this as UFOs or some of the other things that you're reading today.
	The official government terminology was ETV, extraterrestrial visitation.
	Linda Howell got it right, and it was one other guest on your show a couple years ago that got it right.
	People go in and look for documents under ETV.
	They might get something or they will still be classified.
	You might want to.
	I'm sure there's going to be a million of them.
	The million people who listen to the show, if you go out there and try to get something on ETV, it was referred to as extraterrestrial visitation.
	It wasn't referred to UFOs.
	We knew what they were.
	We knew who they were.
	And the government wouldn't put UFOs down unless they were describing something that was in fact an unidentified flying object.
	I still don't understand how they could have shown you Roswell and the true history of ufology and what the government knew and had you signed all this and even today that you could be sitting here telling us... Well, I tried to explain that to you.
	Well, you did.
	The government is saying now that doesn't exist, that is baloney.
	Well, maybe they wouldn't do that.
	Perhaps they would reach out and touch you in some other fashion.
	for something that they're saying is the law.
	Make them deny it.
	It's the whole trick.
	Exactly.
	So they're not going to do that.
	Well, maybe they wouldn't do that.
	Perhaps they would reach out and touch you in some other fashion.
	Has that occurred to you?
	I could, yeah.
	You're right.
	I could very well do that.
	But I'm not scared of that anymore.
	I used to be.
	How's your heart?
	My heart's fine.
	So many other people have come out and done the same thing before even Richard did.
	I know, there's a number of other people who did this.
	I mean, that said ten times more than me.
	In fact, they know ten times more than me.
	But since you know so much, Richard, at least tell us what we really should know about this alien presence.
	Is it multiple species that are here?
	What are the important things for the American people to know about the truth behind all this?
	Okay, I can tell you what I know.
	What I officially know, I mean I'm not going to go into... That's fine by me.
	Okay, I'm not going to go into trying to give you theory.
	We were visited, we crashed, an alien craft crashed in 1947 near Roswell.
	We recovered one alien, we obtained a great wealth of information from that alien who was with us until 1951.
	On 1964, there was a landing at White Sands.
	The disinformation was that it was going to be at Holloman, but it actually happened at White Sands.
	We returned the alien bodies to these extraterrestrial visitors then.
	We met with them, and then we had another visitation some years later.
	I don't know the exact details of that because I wasn't in the know.
	We had a pact with him that they could come back and they could visit Earth and they could experiment and we would let them do that.
	The reason that I was told that we did this was we couldn't stop them in the first place.
	I mean, if they come all this distance, In a short period of time, they had technology that we couldn't understand.
	We were afraid of them, basically.
	But still, you're telling me that you believe, that you're charging our government made a deal with aliens to come down and occasionally grab specimens and slice and dice as they will.
	No, I didn't say that.
	I don't know anything about them providing any type of, our government providing uh... permission or giving permission to any visitors uh... extraterrestrial visitors to do that no no nothing like that uh... but that that's what goes on now uh... people are abducted people are inevitably in some way sexually accosted uh... or probed or shot or uh... you know given a shot or given what god knows what i mean those things are what are reported richard reported now i tell you one thing in my in my uh...
	Eight years or something in OSI in that particular program with clearances.
	I never read one bit of information about abductions, not one, in an official government document.
	Now, I heard a lot from other people.
	I'm not a believer.
	I mean, I'm not a strong believer that the aliens are abducting us.
	But you did say, though, that our government came to an agreement with them that included... Yeah, they could come and look at Earth and, you know, fly around Earth, I guess.
	I don't know what the details were.
	I think what he said was experiments, and that's what... Yes, you did say experiments.
	Experiments, yeah.
	And that's what set me off.
	I don't mean with human beings, because I never read the document.
	All I read was that the United States government had an agreement with the extraterrestrial visitors that they could, you know, We would allow him to visit Earth and research or whatever.
	I can't remember the exact wording.
	That's it.
	That's all I read.
	I don't know anything else about it.
	Was that one of the things you told to Paul Benowitz because he was under the impression after talking to you and other people in OSI that we had exchanged abduction rights for technology?
	No, not abductions.
	I never had anything to do with abductions except for two cases.
	And one of the cases was an absolute hoax, the other one was inconclusive, but I never had anything to do with that.
	I was never briefed in anything.
	Maybe it did happen, and maybe we did know about it, but I wasn't briefed into it.
	I had no knowledge of it.
	Well, again, so we've been, Kraft has crashed, we had possession of an alien being.
	Do you know anything at all about what we learned?
	What came of it?
	In other words, it's kind of back to the question of what should the American public know that we know?
	They call them the Ebens.
	The Eben we had in captivity.
	And I say captivity because that's actually the way it was phrased in a document.
	Captivity.
	He wasn't allowed to leave.
	He provided us with a book.
	It was referred to as a yellow book.
	And in this book, which wasn't actually a book, it was kind of a transparent piece of slab that when you looked at it and studied it, you know, English wording, but it's ironic because if you knew Russian, if you were looking at it, then Russian words would come out of it.
	I didn't understand it, but in there it gave the full history of what they knew about the universe and about Okay, that's a gigantic, general piece of information you just gave me.
	Do you know any of the details of that?
	I mean, to know what it's all about is what it's all about.
	uh...
	alien who had visited earth or or in the past but they've got the gigantic general piece of
	information you just gave me are there do you know
	any of the details of that i mean to know what it's all about is what it's all about i mean those are
	you know almost the godlike questions
	uh... you know any of the answers No, all I know is I had access to the Yellow Book for about five minutes, and in five minutes I couldn't get much information out of it.
	But there's been others who have been on your program and who have written books about it who were right on the money.
	In fact, there's one person, I don't recall their name, they live I think in New Hampshire or Vermont or something, who was a former intelligence officer who claimed to have had access.
	He gave a lecture somewhere some years ago about it, and he was right on the money as far as I know, but there's others out there that know a heck of a lot more about it than I do.
	What I didn't know, and what somebody told me, was about the different races of aliens.
	And what do you know about that?
	Well, I didn't know anything then.
	In fact, the person who told me was Linda Howell.
	She got that information from a high-level source within the CIA.
	And I verified it with some other people.
	I didn't even know it.
	Boy, you are so full of information, Richard.
	I've got to ask this.
	I guess I did earlier, but I've got to ask again.
	Richard, you were a disinformation specialist.
	How in God's name am I supposed to understand I'm hearing the truth from you now?
	I would have no reason whatsoever.
	If I wanted to disinform you, what I would do which try to convince you that
	that that that the the uh... extra-terrestrial visitation was baloney
	that everything that you ever heard which was wrong i can do that because it's not true
	i wouldn't do i have no reason now after all these years to do it
	i wasn't proud of what i did i mean i did a job i'm not proud of what i did then
	i really i really not uh... i mean i'm somewhat embarrassed at times about
	but when you're proud of what you're doing now well i don't know i don't
	I'm truthful now.
	I'm open now.
	More so than I ever was in the past.
	What do you think, Greg?
	Should he be believed now?
	You know what?
	When people tell you these facts or stories or whatever they are, you have to go and check other places, talk to other people, see who repeats these stories, how long the stories hold up.
	That's how you get through disinformation.
	You can't just listen to it.
	And then accept it and then go off with it.
	You have to sit with it for many years sometimes to figure out something's true or not.
	A lot of the things that Rick is saying have been verified by other people.
	Now, you and I and probably most of the people listening have never seen, you know, an alien or never seen this book or the crystal that they talked about that people would look into.
	Any of this stuff.
	So you have to suspend your disbelief up to the, you know, as far to the edge as you want to And think of it probably more as a mental exercise before it's proven unequivocally to you, like it has been to Whitley Streber and maybe Bob Dean and other researchers like that.
	It's a tricky thing.
	I'll say, the whole thing is tricky.
	If you want a yes or no answer, it just doesn't work usually.
	A couple of calls.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with the group here.
	Hi to everybody.
	I wanted to say, I'm not debunking Roswell, but I wanted to talk to you about the Fox show, that special that they did, whatever, about ten years ago or so.
	Oh, that's a good subject, sure.
	Okay, this is a real interesting observation, and it actually wasn't made by me.
	I have pretty poor eyesight, but it was made by a friend of mine, and then I watched it on tape and looked more carefully.
	Nobody, I don't think, has ever brought this up, and I'm real curious what you guys have to say about it.
	You're talking about the autopsy, right?
	Right, the alien autopsy.
	Right, right.
	Okay, I'm a big buff of old telephones.
	This sounds strange, but listen to this.
	This is very interesting.
	In that show, if you watch it, if any of you still have a tape or recording of it anywhere... I do.
	Okay, watch that show, Art.
	You probably know this about old phones and things like that being into ham radio.
	At that time, in 1947, they did not have coiled cords for the hand.
	I've been aware of this argument now for a long, long time.
	Richard, do you have anything you want to say about the alien autopsy?
	Do you have any knowledge?
	I think it was a hoax.
	I didn't believe it.
	You think it was a hoax?
	I don't know anything firsthand, no.
	Why do you think it was a hoax, and who do you think put that film out, or released it?
	Um... I don't know.
	I don't know.
	I've watched that a number of times.
	In fact, I've watched it with a couple of people who are still within the government, or at least then was still in the government, the 70, whatever.
	All right, so your information about it is not first-hand.
	No, no.
	You're just like the rest of us, unsure about that question, right?
	Right.
	I don't have any first-hand knowledge.
	Yeah, good enough.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with a group.
	Hello.
	Thank you, Mr. Bill.
	I appreciate the opportunity.
	Sure, where are you?
	I'm, um, sorry, I'm Scott, Orange County, California.
	Okay.
	Uh, Greg and Richard are listening.
	Okay, uh, Richard, you know, um, I admire Mr. Bill and this, uh, this radio format.
	If he speaks the truth, okay, you, sir, are on the other side of the coin.
	You are a liar and a thief.
	You've stolen Paul's wife and ruined it.
	You are a mindless, soulless drone.
	And as long as the government keeps employing these mindless, soulless drones, we will continue to have these conspiracies.
	That was mindless, soulless drone, right?
	Indeed.
	I got it all.
	Mindless, soulless drone.
	Okay, and what I did... Alright, alright.
	Let's hold it there.
	Mindless, soulless drone is, I think, something you might want to respond to.
	I no longer work for the government.
	So you are no longer a mindless source?
	No, I'm no longer a mindless source.
	Maybe I was during that time, and maybe I was.
	I probably could be considered that then, but I'm no longer with the government now.
	How about a nice big general question?
	How much damage do you think that official disinformation put out by people like you at that time has done to ufology?
	Um, probably it did, it did some harm.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	And, and, um, not so much of what I did, but there was, there was some others, uh, you're talking about small level operations that I did too, that I told you about two others that have never been disclosed.
	Would you like to disclose it?
	One of them, one of them was a total failure.
	I mean, total failure.
	And the other one, uh, no one's ever, Ever written about it and the group... Which one would that be?
	Pardon?
	Which one would that be?
	I'm not going to tell you.
	I'm not going to go into detail about it.
	I would be open to Pandora's Box.
	Well, hey, we specialize in those kinds of boxes here.
	Perhaps you could... We're coming up on a break, so perhaps what you could do is sort of figure out if there's a way you could talk about it without naming Specific names, or something, some way of giving us an idea of what was done.
	Okay.
	Alright, good.
	I'm Art Bell.
	A very old friend, came by today, cause he was telling everyone in town, of the love that he'd just found, and the reasoning, of his way of swaying.
	He talked and talked and I heard him say That she had the longest, blackest hair
	The prettiest green eyes anywhere And the resume of his latest play
	Though I smiled, the tears inside were burning I wished him luck again but he said goodbye
	He was gone but still his words kept returning Why I so stared at him
	Dreams of the aspen tree With his dying name
	Turning blue But the white bear
	Just sits in the cage Roving on
	White bird must fly or she will die White bird must fly or she will die
	The sun sets come, the sun sets go The clouds go by, the earth turns cold
	And the young bird dies, you always know And she must fly, she must fly
	She must fly you
	To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
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	From coast to coast and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	It's just not every morning that you walk into a hornet's nest like this.
	Good morning everybody, I'm Art Bell and this...
	Well, how could you be listening and not know?
	is Coast to Coast AF.
	Once again Richard Odey and Greg Bishop and I've got a question from Phillip in Hampton, Virginia.
	Who asks, what was the crystal that he mentioned?
	Is it something in some way connected with Dan Burrish?
	Do you know anything about the Dan Burrish controversy at all, Richard?
	Or either one of you, really?
	No, I don't know.
	I've heard that name.
	The crystal, I knew, was something that was presented on that UFO cover-up live as something that aliens had, that they had shown to people in the Air Force, whoever was Keeping this alien there.
	And if you looked at it, you could see scenes from the past or the future of Earth's history.
	That's all they said about it.
	That's quite a lot.
	All right, gentlemen, here come some more inquiries.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Greg Bishop and Richard Doty.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	Hi.
	Hey, Richard and Greg.
	Hello.
	Thanks for taking my call, Art.
	Sure.
	This is William from Portland.
	Richard, I have a couple of questions, please, real quick.
	Since you've been privy to the Inside Track, did you learn what the alien's agenda might be, and are we their genetic experiment?
	No, I didn't know what their agenda was, and I have no information regarding whether we're studying our genetic makeup.
	I was just wondering what you thought of Dr. Greer and the Disclosure Project.
	Do you think he's got any chance of success of bringing this out with the hearings and the things he's done?
	Yeah, that's a good question.
	That's an excellent question, absolutely.
	I've spoken to a couple of representatives from Pennsylvania, actually Senator Spector a little while back about it, because he's a former OSI agent.
	He wasn't my committal, but he thought that something should push it forth.
	I agree that I support Dr. Greer's efforts.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with The Group.
	Hi Art, thanks for taking my call.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Pennsylvania, but I'm listening on WBEL.
	Okay, in Delaware.
	Who I'd like to thank for carrying you on the weekend.
	Yes, thank you.
	Very grateful.
	I have a question for Richard.
	I'd like you, if you can, to confirm or deny something I've heard from a former Coast to Coast guest.
	I don't remember whether he was on with Art or George, and I don't remember his name, but somebody talking about the UFO phenomenon once said that he had received information that John F. Kennedy, President John F. Kennedy, was assassinated because he was going to tell the public the truth about the E.T.
	Is that true or not?
	Okay, thank you.
	I didn't get that first part.
	Was President John F. Kennedy assassinated because of what he was going to tell the American public?
	Well, I hear that story, but I have no firsthand knowledge about it.
	No, I don't know anything about that.
	And I wouldn't expect you to.
	Had you actually come up with that answer, I would have immediately pounced upon you.
	So, Greg?
	Yeah, there was a researcher called, I think it was Michael Karlinsky, uncovered this, and then Ken Thomas published this in Steam Shovel Press about some sort of pillow talk between JFK and Marilyn Monroe.
	about him seeing aliens at Area 51 or somewhere out in the southwest, and that's the reason 1.
	JFK was assassinated, and 2.
	Marilyn Monroe appeared to be suicided, as it's used in the business.
	Nobody's been able to back that up.
	That's just one conspiracy rumor that's come out in the last 10 years.
	I heard that.
	Ironic.
	A little sidelight here.
	I was stationed in Germany, and one of the things we did over there was county espionage, and we were debriefing a A former KGB agent, and one of the questions that was presented to him was about John F. Kennedy, and he said, that's what he said, he said, well, you guys killed him because he was going to talk about the UFOs.
	And this came from a KGB agent.
	I don't know, I'd have told Marilyn about UFOs.
	Yeah, baby, we got them.
	We got them.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi, good evening.
	Thanks for taking my call.
	It is quite an evening, yes.
	Yes, it is a keystone, if it's believable.
	You know, I'm not really too knowledgeable in this area, but I've been paying real close attention.
	And Richard, you know, Art specifically asked you about the film.
	Uh, of Roswell, and you specifically answered that you saw Roswell, and then you backslid on that.
	And you've done that a couple of times.
	So, I'm thinking... In what way did he backslide?
	Well, he said, no, he didn't really see Roswell.
	He saw, uh, information and things that were happening with regard This is what I was trying to tell you.
	The film was a briefing film.
	It contained a number of items pertaining to ETV extravisitation.
	It showed a clip of the Roswell recovery and the narrator was It was saying that this was from Roswell, New Mexico, 1947, the recovery operation.
	So I didn't see the whole entire film.
	I saw that clip on this briefing film.
	But that was enough.
	In other words, you saw one of these creatures well enough to describe it until it was a little while ago, right?
	Well, that was the second.
	I mean, that part, I mean, it showed the recovery, and then it showed This creature, I don't know where it was, either some hidden facility in New Mexico or in Los Alamos, because he was at both locations, but it showed this creature, it filmed this creature, saying, this is one that got out of the crap that lived.
	So that was part of this briefing film.
	All right.
	You're on the air with the Gathered group.
	Hello and good morning.
	Good morning, gentlemen.
	Where are you?
	You're going to have to speak up real loud.
	You're not allowed.
	Good morning, gentlemen.
	Sorry, I got cancer in the throat, so I'm sorry.
	I'm sorry to hear that.
	What's your first name?
	My name is Mark.
	And what question do you have, Mark?
	It's not really a question.
	I have been seeing UFOs all my life.
	And I joined the Navy, and I actually seen one 134 feet away from my battleship.
	OK, but we're not taking you away.
	How does this relate to these?
	This relates because my commanding officer, Worked out at Oslo.
	And he says that he confirmed there was UFOs.
	But my question to you, what is the color?
	He was telling us they were green and he said they were gray.
	What color were they?
	Alright, what color were they?
	I didn't catch all that.
	Something about... What color of UFOs?
	I don't know.
	It was kind of...
	I think he was trying to figure out what color the aliens were because his commanding officer in the Navy... No, the craft themselves.
	He was talking about the craft.
	I don't know why.
	It was like it was a test or something.
	He was testing you, Richard.
	See if you had knowledge of what color these things were.
	I can't... I don't... I couldn't understand his question.
	What color were the UFOs?
	Oh, the craft?
	You mean the alien craft?
	Yes.
	The metallic shape, but they were silvery colored, the ones that I saw.
	They actually showed one at the end of the briefing tape, and that's the one that was involved in the Cash Landrum thing.
	All right, this is of immense interest.
	If they showed it and it was real, then what did it look like?
	The outside of it wasn't a saucer shape.
	It was more like a bat wing shape.
	A cutout in the back where apparently the engine was and it was a kind of bat-winged shape and it had a protrusion on top with a white and it was a silvery grayish colored craft.
	This was the one at Roswell you're talking about?
	Yes.
	All right.
	The Cash Landrums ship was something else and when I talked to you, you said you thought that was, and what a lot of people thought was, It was a test craft, a nuclear-powered test craft that somehow went off course.
	You know about this case, right, Art?
	Yes.
	And I want to add for you, Greg, that you do have a book which is called Project Beta.
	And Project Beta is the story of what happened to Paul Benowitz.
	Yes.
	In fact, most of the things we've been talking about tonight, except for a few exclusives from Richard here, are in the book.
	Probably about 90% of what we've been talking about are things that Richard told me when we had our talks when I was writing the book.
	Yeah, I've got a feeling we heard quite a few new things this morning.
	At least a couple.
	Yeah, at least a couple.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air with the group.
	Hello.
	Hi, how you doing?
	Okay, sir.
	Where are you?
	I'm Tom from New York.
	All right, Tom.
	A question?
	Well, kind of not a question, more of a comment.
	I think the problem is that with people like Greg and anyone else who is searching for something in life, Sometimes the obvious is just the obvious, whether they be aliens or not aliens, whether it be technology or whatever it's coming from.
	And I think that when you so badly want to believe something, that sometimes you want to believe disinformation or believe the obvious facts.
	Absolutely.
	And I think that's the problem sometimes.
	Whether they be aliens or not, it's just you have to be open-minded and be willing to accept and be able to tell the truth from not the truth.
	That's why disinformation works.
	It does work, doesn't it?
	Very well.
	Yeah, well, that's the point I was trying to make in the book, and people have said, you know, does this mean that the UFOs are completely a product of... everything we know is completely a product of the government?
	Here's one problem.
	I've never said any such thing.
	Yeah, but here's the problem, Greg, and Richard, too, for that matter.
	If you're in a courtroom, and uh... you're being accused of something by somebody and your lawyer is really good and proves that one of the witnesses against you is a damn liar then even though what they lied about has nothing to do with what you know necessarily what you've done or accused of even if it's true it's discarded by the jury wants a liar never trusted again ever exactly but this is not a court and disinformation works and in ways that do not
	that are not suited for our system of justice.
	You know, let me say something about this.
	One of the things we did in the disinformation area was encounter espionage where we recruited a person and we sent that person in to meet a Soviet agent and we controlled him and we fed him disinformation.
	We fed that our guy of phony information to give to the Soviets.
	Now, everybody's going to say, well, that's good disinformation.
	That's great disinformation.
	That's right.
	That's right.
	But when it involves people like Linda Moulton Howe and, I guess, Paul Benowitz and a lot of other people that have been fed, American citizens that have been fed this disinformation, it doesn't go down as well.
	Yeah, I agree with you 100%.
	I wasn't proud.
	Like I said, I wasn't proud of doing it.
	On the other hand, everybody understands the need for national security, and it may be that the need is just as great here as it is in the Soviet Union.
	I'm just telling you how things go down PR-wise.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Greg Bishop, Richard Doty.
	Hello.
	And Art Bell.
	Hi.
	My name is Tom.
	I live in northwest New Jersey.
	Ed, in 1981 I did hold a top secret clearance and I just wanted to tell you that some of the things that he is saying is true.
	Yeah, I mean you're not the first person to call me either publicly here or privately and say what you're hearing is true.
	Yes, I just want to let you know that some of the things that he is saying is true.
	Okay, alright.
	As I mentioned, Ed Dames called, Richard, said the same thing.
	Yeah, I know it.
	That these things are done, these lies are dispensed, and it's in the name of real, honest to God, national security projects.
	Yeah, well I pointed this out in the book that there were assets in Russia who were sending this information back, and if they found out that somebody over here was getting that information and using it on these satellites through Paul Benowitz or anybody else, these people would have been, you know, imprisoned or killed or whatever.
	And they figured, I think Richard can comment on this, that they figured that the one person getting paranoid and going off the deep end was worth 10 or 12 or 15 or however many agents they had over in Russia doing this, apart from the fact that it's just the basic information.
	Exactly.
	And another thing that we as an open society have to be very careful of is what people does with the information.
	If we allow somebody to have information that is of offensive nature, there's no protection, or there's no guarantee that they're not going to give that to the Soviets or the East Germans or the Chinese.
	So we have to be careful, and that's the main basis for counterintelligence is to protect our secrets.
	Out of curiosity, Richard, you've told us a lot about what the U.S.
	government knows.
	What do you know about what the Russians, or the Chinese, or the Brits, or anybody else knows that we don't?
	i know officially that the soviet union had a a a very very extensive program and investigating ufo
	sightings within the within their borders
	and also a and a m intelligence operation
	targeting certain people in the united states to obtain information
	that we can one of the interesting point
	we ran espionage operations in europe we sent our five yen and and
	and let them think it up so you think these guys were there there but
	actually were are almost every one of our spies would come back and say
	he uh...
	i want to know about what we what i know about you a folder what we have a
	thought you a phone they would target
	our people and ask questions and that was that was that showed up
	if they still have a lot of interest in it.
	This was in the 80s.
	Got it.
	All right.
	Hi there.
	What's the Rockies?
	We're going to squeeze you in with Greg Bishop and Richard Dode.
	Hi.
	All righty.
	My name's Michael.
	I'm in Seattle.
	Hi, Michael.
	And I'd like to ask about Philip Corso and what he might know, a verification of what he wrote about, and was there any information more he can add to that?
	Do you know him, or was he involved in any of his Any of his work, or anybody that he knew was involved in his work.
	Excellent question.
	I interviewed Phil Corso many times.
	Richard, do you know anything about Phil Corso?
	Yeah, I had a very interesting chat with Phil on two occasions.
	One in Los Alamos, New Mexico, and one in Washington, D.C., where we spoke quite openly.
	And he filled me in on a lot of things that I never knew, because he was around in the early days.
	And he verified a lot of things personally between him and I that I'm saying tonight about Roswell.
	Now, I didn't know about the crates and some of these things that he knew about, but again, I wasn't around then.
	So Phil Corso was not in your line of work?
	No, no, no.
	He was not in my line of work.
	It's funny, I've always wondered about Phil.
	Well, so have I, but he told an extremely detailed, very convincing story.
	And he seemed very sincere.
	That's right.
	But then again, somebody would have to be good at what they do.
	So it's a question that I guess had to be asked, but you're saying, Richard, that he was a real McCoy?
	Yeah, he was a real McCoy.
	We're about to have to end this program, so I need to ask you if there's anything else that you've been holding back.
	I mean, there was that operation, for example, you were going to tell us a little bit about.
	Well, basically, one of the operations that was successful involved an airline from Nevada that flew people to a certain location.
	all from one place to another i know about the operation yes and the second one was cash lander and which i know
	wait a minute i know about that
	airline obligation yes i do but but i don't know what you did
	with regard to them well i i i'm not going to go into detail from
	it's it's it's kind of a Long drag.
	I couldn't do it within a minute.
	But anyway, you know about it.
	Somebody else mentioned it on one of your programs.
	All right.
	Richard Doty, thank you very, very much for being with us tonight.
	It was a shock and a surprise.
	Brought to me by Greg Bishop.
	Greg, thank you.
	And your book is on sale where?
	At Amazon.com and at just about any bookstore you'd care to go to.
	Project Beta is the title.
	Project Beta.
	Gentlemen, thank you and good night.
	Good night.
	Later.
	This has been some weekend, hasn't it?
	Crystal's got the right words.
	Good night, all.
	Midnight in the desert, shooting stars across the sky This magical journey will take us on a ride
	Filled with the longing, searching for the truth Will we make it to tomorrow?
	Will the sun shine on you?

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