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Feb. 27, 2005 - Art Bell

02:52:48

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Greg Bishop - Government Disinformation Programs

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52:28

richard doty

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi desert and the great American Southwest Happy Do you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the world's time, all of them.
unidentified		Covered like a great warm blanket by this program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Coast Coast Mamma by Martin, my pleasure and honor, of course, to be escorting you through the weekend.
		Many, many, many of you, after the decorations of the amount of rain I made the weird last week, said, hey Martin, why don't you go take a picture of the desert?
		So I went to a little BLM land.
		That's unattended land.
		Government landed up here.
		Immediately adjacent to my home and took a photograph.
		And that is what you will find now on my webcam.
		Mart's webcam now.
		It's a pretty amazing picture.
		You've got to understand where I'm located is about 20 miles from the Valley of Death.
		Death Valley.
		And so there you have it.
		The picture is worth a thousand words.
		I told you we had a lot of rain.
		Take a look at that.
		It's like a golf course.
		All right.
		The boxing saga, Million Dollar Baby, seems to have won the Academy Awards Heavyweight Sunday, claiming Best Picture and three other trophies, including honors for director Clint Eastwood, lead actress Hilary Swank, and supporting actor Morgan Freeman.
		Martin Scroces, the aviator, came away with most Oscars.
		It's five awards, including the supporting actress prize for Kate Blanchett.
		So there you have it.
		Not too many surprises, really.
		The man arrested on suspicion of being the BTK serial killer has confessed to at least six of the killings and might be responsible for as many as 13 more, including one, by the way, that could carry the death penalty.
		Iraqi officials said Sunday that Syria captured and handed over Saddam Hussein's half-brother, a most wanted leader in the Sunni-based insurgency, ending months now of Syrian denials that it was harboring fugitives from the ousted Saddam regime.
		So there you go, they had his half-brother all along.
		Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon threatened Sunday to freeze peace efforts if the Palestinian leadership doesn't crack down on militant groups after a weekend suicide bombing in Tel Aviv that killed four Israelis and wounded dozens.
		Searchers spent a fourth day scouring roads and looking for that little nine-year-old Jessica Marie Lunsford last seen Wednesday night in her bedroom.
		Father discovered she was missing next morning.
		Police have said a door at the home was unlocked and one of the third graders' dolls also gone.
		Iran and Russia ignored U.S. objections, and it seems they have now signed a nuclear fuel agreement.
		They did that today.
		It is a key to bringing Tehran's first reactor online by mid-2006.
		Worth asking, I suppose, why the Iranians need or would want a nuclear reactor?
		Well, you might say they need power too.
		Well, they have more oil than just about any of us, so why do they need nuclear power?
		There's an obvious answer to that.
		In a moment, a little of the other news, there's a headline here that worries me, though it comes from the India Daily.
		The headline says, evidence of extreme disturbance in Earth's core.
		That's right, Earth's core.
		We'll get to it in a moment.
unidentified		AHHHHH!
art bell ▲ ● ▼		you We are going to be going to open lines very quickly if you have something of intense interest to the audience.
		I think this is of intense interest.
		Now, bear in mind, it comes from the India Daily.
		A lot of times you have to go out of the country to get news that you're definitely not going to get here.
		So I can't vouch for it, but I can vouch for the fact that it is from that source.
		And it is translated, so excuse any apparent disturbance in context here.
		Geologists in India and the rest of the world are receiving signals of a very disturbed mantle and core of the Earth.
		According to some computer models, the outer core and the mantle is getting extremely heated.
		This can cause extreme tension on the Earth's crust and tectonic plates.
		The net result can be increased earthquakes and volcanoes.
		The reports are coming from virtually every continent and say the volcanoes, geysers, and mud volcanoes are all ready to explode.
		According to the scientists, the mantle viscosity is going down due to increased temperature.
		The outer core is showing signs of molecular agitation.
		I felt a little of that myself, I think.
		The inner core is also showing strange signs.
		According to some contemporary geoscience theories, the Earth's iron core formed with a large share of radioactive uranium, which combined with sulfur to make an extra dense compound.
		Now, the uranium settled to the center of the core where it eventually formed a mass big enough to sustain a supercritical nuclear reactor.
		Not just that, but it functions as a breeder reactor, creating more nuclear fuel than it burns.
		This provides the energy needed to generate the geomagnetic field.
		That is, in essence, the theory of geomagnetism and gravity.
		If the reactor, for some reason, is disturbed, it can cause major problems and eventually explode.
		Scientists believe chances of that are very remote, although not impossible.
		And these are.
		This may be evidence, they suggest, in our solar system.
		They say there once was another planet, and it exploded and caused major problems for Earth and Mars millions of years back.
		So there you have it.
		Problems, disturbances in the Earth's core.
		I hardly ever get to read stories like that.
		And then this.
		Straight from Matt Drudge before I went on the air.
		Headline is, Mysterious Smell Hangs Over Chicago.
		Calls pour into 911 Center.
		Mysterious odor.
		Hundreds of people reported a mysterious and foul odor in the air throughout Chicago.
		Sunday, calls came from the south side to the north side of Chicago and even beyond.
		Chicago's 911 Center on West Madison Street fielded many of the calls Saturday night and Sunday morning on the mysterious odor in the city of Chicago.
		When Edison Park resident Debbie Usher went out to get the paper Sunday morning, she smelled something.
		She said, quote, I came outside to get the newspaper and noticed a strong, very strong smell of gas.
		At least that's what I thought it smelled like.
		And the northwest side wasn't the only place Chicagoans noticed the foul and strange odor.
		Police officers coming and going to and from headquarters at 35th and Michigan smelled it.
		And as far south as the Hegwish neighborhood, people thought some kind of fuel might have been spilled or something smelled like, I don't know, kerosene or, you know, a grassy smell.
		So any of you in Chicago who might be able to update us on this foul infestation that you're apparently suffering, I'd enjoy getting some Chicago calls.
		Can any of you still smell it?
		And do you wish to point the finger of blame at anything or, well, anybody?
		East of the Rockies, you're on here.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, I'm calling East of the Rockies.
unidentified		I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you are East of the Rockies.
unidentified		Well, I dialed the East Line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's good, because that's what you're on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And now you're on the air.
unidentified		Thank you, sir.
		This is Susie in the Royal Oak, Michigan area.
		That's Detroit.
		And I wanted to say that I thought the ABC program was good for the following reason.
		The production values were excellent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they were, yes.
unidentified		Yeah, and that's something nobody's mentioned.
unidentified		And I think that's an awfully good way to sort out between what ABC was trying to do and what our listeners on Coast to Coast would like to have had.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Well, again, what the listeners on Coast would like to have and what the general public is able to digest are two entirely different things.
		It's a very bright audience.
		They're very well informed.
unidentified		Exactly.
		And I think Peter Jennings probably believes in what he was doing more than he might have seen during that second time when he was running down 1947 in Roswell.
		I think that was a pound of flesh that got collected for getting that thing on the air.
		And I don't think he will miss bringing us a second program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what I'm hopeful of.
		Thank you very, very much.
		I'm very hopeful of a second part to that.
		And then obviously they could get up and go further.
		But you can't start out at the end of the story, or at least as much as is as known by many of you now, but rather at the beginning.
		And that's what they did.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello.
		Hi.
		This coast to coast?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be us.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Anyway, my name is John.
		I'm calling from Aberdeen, Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, John.
unidentified		Yeah, I just wanted to talk about a, I think it might have been a near-death experience my grandson had that was in a car wreck.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That he had.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Yeah, anyway, he was in a car wreck, and there was two other grandchildren in the car with him, and it was one other grandchild that was hurt, but the one that was in the wreck, he got his seat belt went and ripped his aorta, and only got about a little over half of his intestines left.
unidentified		But he told me a story without anybody saying anything to him about something that happened to him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did he say?
unidentified		He said there was two people in white gowns that was standing by him.
		They told him to go back to Johnny, which was my name from friends and family when I was younger.
		And I asked him what they looked like.
		And the hair and stuff like that.
		His description, it sounded like my mother and father.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's very convincing stuff.
unidentified		Because where he had the accident at was right across from the mouth of the cemetery that my mother and father were buried at.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not sure that there would be a distance thing.
		In other words, I'm sure that no matter where that had occurred to him, they would have shown whether or not it was close to the cemetery.
		But, you know, out of the mouths of babes.
		And I think that's one of the things that gives me, I don't know, some of the most hope when I hear stories about children that have been at NDEs and describe things simply absolutely impossible for them to have known.
		You know, period clothing, that sort of thing.
		Relatives, accurate descriptions of relatives they have never seen, that sort of thing.
		It seems like pretty good evidence and maybe as good as we're ever going to get.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, is this Art Belfield?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is me.
unidentified		Hey, I just want to tell you, you got the best show on radio.
unidentified		And once I discovered you, I listened to you every weekend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's certainly very different.
unidentified		I mean, you got the best form because you'll talk to anybody.
unidentified		And, I mean, oh, I forgot to tell you, my name is James.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm in San Francisco.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, as you may have noticed, James, you were just ringing the phone and you went straight on the air.
unidentified		Yeah, because I was just so excited to talk to you because you definitely got the best show on radio.
unidentified		I want to say what's up to Tim and Jersey, and thanks a lot, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, take care.
		We just come to you in the raw, as it were.
		I'm not sure that's the right way to put it.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm just fine.
unidentified		Good.
		My name is Mart.
		I'm calling from Houston, Texas.
		Listening to you on 740.
		I just want to bring to your attention, you may have already discussed this already, I don't know, but last night you had a call from a young lady that said she had given you some information about the BTK, I think, BTK killer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		That he had been turned in by his daughter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what she said.
unidentified		And that's true.
unidentified		That turned out to be true today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, there you go.
		No, I didn't read that part today, but that's interesting.
unidentified		I just thought that was pretty good.
		Your listeners are on the ball that you knew it last night at 1.30 in the morning, and nobody found out about that.
		His daughter turned him in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, this, again, sir, is what you get when you have open line, unrestricted, unfiltered, screened, talk radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You just get the real thing.
unidentified		It's a pleasure.
unidentified		Continue the good job.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much, and have a good morning.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Yes.
		Art?
		Yes.
		Oh, yes.
		Earlier today, I emailed you a picture about a UFO.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A picture of a UFO?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		That I took, it was earlier this evening when I was watching the Academy Awards, and it's something that I dug out.
		I took many years ago at the beach, Miami Beach, South Beach, to be exact.
		And actually, it emailed you three pictures.
		My name is Nestor, by the way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I may not have gotten to them yet.
unidentified		Yeah, because that was like about an hour ago, an hour and a half ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And anyway, look for the subject matter.
unidentified		It says UFO picture, South Beach, Miami.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That'll get my attention, believe me.
unidentified		Yeah.
		And anyway, you'll see the UFO between the palm trees and the beach in the background.
		And you can actually see this tree.
		I took it from the balcony of the hotel where I was staying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
		If it's a good one, I'll get it up on the website for everybody to see.
		But that would have been a little late to get on the air tonight.
		West to the Rockies.
		You're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi.
		Hi.
		I just wanted to, first of all, I wanted to say that I enjoy your show very much.
		I listened to it for a few months.
		It's really wonderful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I am in San Diego.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		My name is Joe.
unidentified		I listen to Cogo, on the Cogo station.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And I just wanted to just make two little comments, or actually just a comment and a suggestion.
		The first, I agree with you as far as the ABC special.
		I do think that they could have been a little more open-minded, but I suppose they are trying to reach every teach a few people that don't know much of anything about UFOs what it really is all about.
		That's the first experience for them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, to have dismissed Roswell as a myth was ridiculous.
unidentified		I agree.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely ridiculous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Otherwise, though, contrary to what a lot of ufology had to say and people in ufology, I thought it was a good first step.
unidentified		Well, the other thing I wanted to suggest, either I know that sometimes you and George Norre dedicate a single line to whatever you may be looking for out there.
unidentified		I don't know if this has been done, but have you ever considered opening up a line exclusively for people, your listeners out there, who may at this moment be seeing a UFO in the sky and get a live description?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, we've done that many times, sir.
		As a matter of fact, part of the UFO show you saw, the ABC show, was about a night that we got call after call after call after call about the Phoenix lights.
		You see, I came on at 10 o'clock hour time, and the whole thing was just going absolutely berserk.
		I mean, every phone line was lit up with people who were seeing it, that sort of thing.
		But yes, I suppose one could open a line for those who are seeing one at the moment.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hey, Darrett, how you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just fine.
unidentified		Listen to you down in New Orleans and on WSMD 1350.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Look, something I want to ask you about.
unidentified		I know you talk about global warming a lot, and I kind of believe maybe we're at global normalization, not global warming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whatever.
unidentified		Have you ever spoken to anybody in reference to maybe what was the temperature on planet Earth during prehistoric time, during dinosaurs, when they were roaming the Earth?
unidentified		Maybe we were warming back up to that temperature.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, sir.
		Those sorts of questions would be most appropriately directed toward people who drill ice cores.
		And that's exactly the kind of information they extract from ice cores.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		They had something tonight also about UFOs on the History Channel tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Conspiracy.
unidentified		And the gentleman that was on George Notty's program the other night about telling about, you know, the Philadelphia Project.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be albelic.
unidentified		Yeah.
		And I mean, all this is coming out thanks to you.
		And I'm very proud of you for doing this because this should come out a long time ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a lot of things that, now remember.
		Now remember, with this program, as with many things that you see in the media or hear in the media on radio, some of it is going to be true and some of it is going to be BS.
		And it's frankly up to you to separate in your mind what you think is real and not.
		But I'm telling you straight out and up front that not all of what you hear here is absolutely true.
		It's simply not.
unidentified		Well, I have something to tell you, my husband was taken up in Virginia back in the 60s.
		Then they appeared again at our home down south.
		They appeared in the middle of the night inside our home.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They?
unidentified		Yes.
		There were two people.
		I mean, this was like 12:30 at night.
		I had just gotten on the bed and I had my back towards the door.
		You know, that feeling that you have is somebody's behind you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		Okay.
		I turned back over.
		There were two beings standing in my doorway of my bedroom.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you would describe them how?
unidentified		They looked like they were wearing like almost like jumpsuits.
unidentified		It was dark, you know, to their face, the light was behind them, so I could see them, you know, their outline and everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Little biddy people?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Big people?
unidentified		No, they weren't that small, no.
		And one was holding something in his hand.
		I couldn't make out what it was.
		And I try to wake my husband up and I said, wake up, boys in the house.
		And all of a sudden, I turn back towards them.
		This light just lit up the whole room like it was daylight, and they were gone.
		And then they show up again here, where we're living now, across the lake one day.
		They were sitting right above the trees.
		And it just so happened the shuttle was going up.
		And it comes right over us as it goes out.
		And, I mean, it had to actually jump over it to keep from getting hit by it.
		I mean, it was sitting right there.
		Wow.
		And, I mean, we've had experiences with them.
		And I tell you what, I hadn't thought about it for a long time.
		And then when I saw a program on TV one night, the fear came back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fear, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, listen, we've got a break here at the half hour open lines at the moment.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		And coming up at the top of the hour, we've got Greg Bishop.
		And I believe, by the way, we've got a special prize, very prize, special witness for you coming up in tonight's show.
		don't want to miss it.
unidentified		You're doing all right.
		A little driving on a Saturday night.
		Come walk me.
		Gonna die a little day away.
		Jenny was sweet.
		Show a smile for the people she needs.
		I'm trouble is trying.
		I used to be a rolling stone, you know.
		If a cause was right, I'd leave to find an answer on the road.
		I used to be a heartbeat for someone.
		But the times have changed.
		The less I say, the more my world gets done.
		Cause I never bring this little, little freedom.
		From the day that I was born, I played the line.
		Philadelphia freedom took me high to a man.
		Give me peace all night, my daddy.
		Never had to.
		talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach ART by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		According to the India Daily, something wrong, an extreme disturbance in the Earth's core, and then, according to, I believe it's Channel 9 news in Chicago, a foul and mysterious odor overhanging all of Chicago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could there be a connection?
unidentified		SHUT UP!
unidentified		SHUT UP!
art bell ▲ ● ▼		you you Well, as I said at the top of the hour, Greg Bishop is going to be here, and he's going to be talking a whole lot about UFOs, and he is going to bring a surprise witness, a man who has never talked publicly before.
		Now, this might not happen, mind you.
		It might not happen.
		But I'm not even going to give his name right now.
		I'm going to be sure they want to give his name, that he wants to actually give his name.
		But somebody who worked for the Air Force Office of Special Investigation at the OSI and apparently specialized in disinformation.
		Disinformation.
		This could potentially be very interesting.
		We shall see.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air, hi.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Yeah, it was great to see you on that show, and your wife is beautiful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
unidentified		I was calling because something happened when I called in last night on the wildcard line, and I didn't get to ask my question of your guest about nanotechnology.
unidentified		I thought maybe I'd just see what you thought about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Far away.
unidentified		Yeah.
		You know, there was some talk about how we're sort of all merging into one organism in a strange way with the Internet and stuff.
		And then we'll be merging with machines.
		We're already doing that, too.
		I mean, the Internet is a good example of that, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a big, borgish move.
unidentified		Yeah.
		And how there's, you know, a downside and an upside and all that.
		But what worried me more than the gray goo and stuff like that was like, if we all merge with each other and merge with machines, number one, there would probably need to be some programming in there having to do with ethics.
		And number two, if that was done, would it mean the end of free will as we know it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If we have it now?
unidentified		If we have it now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, haven't you ever wondered?
		I mean, maybe you were destined, if not programmed, like a puppet on strings, to call me up tonight and say all of this.
		It was all predestined.
unidentified		Well, you know, like in twin studies, so many times they'll be separated from birth, and it turns out they work at the same type of job.
		They have the same hairdo.
		They wear the same kind of So it has a lot to do with genetics, I guess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, last night scared the hell out of me.
		I'm serious.
		I don't know what I've done recently that scared me more than, I mean, he was a very cheerful fellow, I guess.
		Very cheerful.
		But frankly, when it got down to the part where he said the only way that humanity will be able to combat nanotechnology and the misuse of it is to itself, humanity itself turn into part machine, that began to get to me a little bit.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, how are you going to feel?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you going to accept it when they come to you with, oh, just a little circuit board and a couple of chips that they want to implant in your head?
unidentified		A little chip for me to be able to buy things anywhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that, too, yes, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, how are you going to react?
unidentified		You're going to say, well, sure, I might run off into the wilderness and learn to eat bark or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bark and bugs.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you very much for the call, and good luck in the woods.
		Bark and bugs.
		That is what he said, though.
		And he was being very, very serious.
		No kidding around there at all.
		Nanotechnology, when you actually...
		So if you didn't hear last night's show, dig it out of the archives.
		Do whatever you have to do to get hold of it and listen to that.
		It's important.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hello.
		Hello.
		I was impressed, and then at the same time, I was kind of disappointed that they did not include the Brentwater UFO experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What, in the ABC Special?
unidentified		Yes, in the ABC Special.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there would be a million things you could be disappointed in that they didn't get in, but they only had two hours.
unidentified		And I had something else to say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but that story alone, sir, would have consumed, I don't know, 30 minutes to even begin to tell it right.
unidentified		Yeah.
		I got something else to say.
		When you consider UFOs, I think we ought to consider them in the timeframe that they happen.
		Like Roswell, you've got to consider it in the day 1948.
		Of course they're going to lie about it.
		Of course they're going to per se it as myth.
		And they did a very good job, and that's why it was considered a myth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, you mean in 1948 they would have lied, but well, now they would never lie.
unidentified		Yeah, but the timeframe, what the psychosis was ready for now.
		But if you look at today the way the international community is coming together, which is a necessity to actually begin to think that we're not, that there's a greater community out there universally, we need to understand that as the world sort of comes together, maybe that's the step.
		I mean, I remember from last week they said, you know, stay healthy.
		Part of that might be the fact that the world is coming together.
		Militarily, economically, socially, we're coming together.
		The Internet's part of that, I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Until finally we become one world.
unidentified		Yeah, until finally we become one world and we can interact in a world where there's good and bad aliens, there's friend and foe, and we can act together.
unidentified		We can't have, you know, like the Muslims saying, okay, I hate the Jews so much that I'm ready to kill all humanity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me ask you a question, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would it surprise you to know that I've been offered a very substantial position in the New World Order governing body?
unidentified		Probably not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It wouldn't surprise you?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then you're extremely gullible.
		But thank you for the call.
		West of the Rockies, you're on air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Jeff from San Marino Dinos and I calling from Summit Valley, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Jeff, welcome.
unidentified		And this is a place where we have seen a few strange things similar to what you and Ramona have seen to particular objects.
		I myself was in the United States Air Force at Norton Air Force Base in the past.
		I think I can tell the difference between something usual and something unusual.
		Yes.
		I wanted to talk to you a little bit about the program on ABCs the other night documentary.
		And I had a little bit different take on what they said about Roswell.
		I believe that the way I heard it, and I had to think about this, they said, from what I understood, people didn't get out of Roswell what they had hoped to as far as proof that UFOs existed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you talking about it in the program?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There was no proof at all, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They called it a myth.
unidentified		They said that there was a, I did hear them say that a lot of people did think it was a myth and that anybody who thought that they were going to get proof out of it did not get out of it what they wanted to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's one place, in my opinion, the program fell flat on its face.
unidentified		I do agree with you on that.
		But I also wanted to point out that I believe it was in 2003, and MSNBC ran this program earlier in the week, probably because of the UFO seeing his believing on ABC.
		Bryant Gumbel did a very in-depth two-hour program on Roswell.
		And they gave a lot of different angles on Roswell and information from all sides and left you, the viewer, to decide what you wanted to out of all that information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They lay somewhere on the table.
		Yeah, it's the best way to do it.
		I try and do the same thing here.
		In other words, I fully understand and represent to you that some of what you hear here is BS.
		There's no question about it.
		Some is not.
		Many times what you hear on this program is reflected in headlines a week, a month, and a year later.
		Much of what you hear here.
		But on the other hand, some is BS.
		And you have to pick through it.
		And I regard you as adults.
		You ought to be at this time of night, for the most part.
		And you can make your way through it and sort Of accept what you will and reject what you will.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Mr. Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that would be me.
unidentified		I was holding for quite a while.
		But listen, it's a pleasure speaking with you.
		called last week and they gave me some shenanigans run around that you weren't there but I heard you and I know you were there and I think they would just Well, you see.
		I knew it was you, and the man told me it was some tomfoolery going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my goodness.
		I don't know what man you're referring to.
		Now, it could have been, you see, during the weekend when I was off, in which case he would have been pleading the absolute truth to you.
		So I don't know.
unidentified		I don't know, but I know it was you.
unidentified		most many ways the plan is it's about art that was the most All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, my dear?
unidentified		I'm calling from New Jersey.
		My name is Louise, and I will not tell you anything more specific because I know, well, the reason I'm calling, my husband, who's deceased, worked for Naval Intelligence many, many years ago.
		And I know that some of the projects he worked on dealt with UFOs and aliens, but he wouldn't even discuss certain things with me.
		But I believe that even today, that the aliens are among us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He would not tell you, his wife?
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		He's deceased now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But he wouldn't even tell his own wife.
unidentified		He told me certain things, but they were confidential, classified, and I couldn't even discuss them with you or my friend Clara.
unidentified		But I know that there are certain alien beings that are injecting drugs into the air that we breathe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you would tell me as much as you tell Clara, or would you tell Clara more?
unidentified		Well, that's irrelevant to the point.
unidentified		But I know that the alien beings, these greys, they're injecting some type of drugs into the air we breathe, and it's contaminating us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have any idea what these drugs are doing?
unidentified		Well, I could tell you some things, but...
unidentified		I cut my hair.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You cut your hair?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think these drugs made you cut your hair?
unidentified		Well, I had to because Clara told me to do certain things.
unidentified		I put aluminum foil around the lampshades.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You did?
		And what Clara told you?
		Clara instructed you to do that?
unidentified		She said it would help to reflect the drugs back into the atmosphere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
unidentified		I think that's nonsense.
unidentified		They're going to penetrate us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If it's nonsense, why do you have aluminum foil on your lampshades?
unidentified		Well, I had to try it.
unidentified		It's not working.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, but you'd never know for sure.
		How could you know for sure whether it was working or not?
		Of course, you did cut your hair.
		Welcome, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Eric, truck driver cruising down I-90 and great stay in Minnesota.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Eric.
unidentified		Hey, I just wanted to let you know, I'm from Northern California, and there's a mountain in Lake County, California.
		It's called Mount Canocti.
		Now, the weird thing about this mountain is it's an extinct volcano.
		The strange thing is that they know it's hollow inside.
		Now, no one's been able to find the entrance to this volcano.
		And the thing that piqued my interest about this is that there was a couple scientists that were actually on this mountain looking for the entrance to it, and they have the permission of the owners of the land.
		Then all of a sudden, for no reason, they kicked them off the property and they forbid anybody to look for the entrance to this mountain.
		And I thought it was kind of unusual.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think they might have done that?
unidentified		I think that there's possibly something going on in there, or it may lead to something that somebody doesn't want anybody to find out.
unidentified		It just piqued my interest, and I think that it may be something worth looking into.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
		Well, let me know when you get out how it goes.
		I think he's probably suggesting the rest of us look into it.
		I've always been fascinated, as you know, with very deep holes in the ground, tunnels, the inside of mountains, absolutely intrigued, but never sufficiently to go scurrying down a rope, you know, into some dark pit or something.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Jim from Fall Lauderdale listening on WIOD.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Jim.
unidentified		I'm a truck driver, as you can tell.
		Yes.
		You guessed last night, boy, he was a very, very excellent show.
		Yes.
		And what he was talking about with the nanobots and the artificial intelligence, you must watch the show Stargate.
		Do you watch that show?
		No.
		Okay, because they have a bunch of aliens they call the replicators.
		And they all started out as one-celled nanobots.
		And they're like a little rectosets, and they keep building themselves into the same thing over and over again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the whole idea of nanotechnology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's replication mostly.
unidentified		Well, everything you were saying last minute, and you saying the bad scenario could be scary, and watching the Stargate show, and they take over, they can be one-celled bots, or they can form giant, they get together and can form giant big things and take over the ships and all.
unidentified		But it seemed like it was very similar to what he was talking about last night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right.
		Well, listen, we're going to, I think, as the next year or two progresses, we're going to begin hearing a very great deal about nanotechnology.
		And a lot of what is science fiction today, his nanobots, the nanobots he was talking about, are liable to be with us a lot sooner than we think.
		I really did.
		I thought last night's program was quite educational, first of all.
		And after you began to understand what it was that last night's guest was talking about, then it began to scare you if you were really listening.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Willow from Lake Matthews listening on KFI.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How you doing?
unidentified		I'm fine.
unidentified		I expected watching that program to see what had happened with Art's parts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that, too, would have been a very long segment, my dear.
		They were tested extensively at several different locations, and there would be a lot to report, but it was not normal.
		So Art's parts continue to exist.
		I still have left my portion of them.
		I gave Larry King a little piece.
		Otherwise, I've kept them.
		Other pieces went out for research, but they came back with ratios that were all wrong.
unidentified		Well, I heard about this, but they're still safely stored somewhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you betcha.
unidentified		Well, I would sure like to see them tell me what their opinion is of that and call it a myth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, that might be for another program.
		But what we were told by those who tried to duplicate the material in arts parts was that it was not possible on Earth.
		In other words, they could not duplicate the structure and the layering of the bismuth and so forth.
		It just couldn't be done.
unidentified		No, I identify it completely from what I heard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's absolutely correct.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Okay.
		Well, good wishes to you and your family.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
unidentified		This is Jimmy Jay from Wichita, Kansas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Howdy.
unidentified		Today, I just wanted to call in and correct what an earlier caller said about BTK's daughter turning him in.
		Okay.
		Skinny on that is that they went to her and got her DNA to match some DNA they had.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And they said that it was about a 90% make on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess it's a moot point since my understanding is tonight's headline has him confessing to at least half a dozen murders.
unidentified		Well, they really haven't said that here on the news.
unidentified		all of social process of that well i don't think that Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You might want to check.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's pretty late news.
unidentified		But anyway, he must be a real Jekyll, huh?
		Because all his church members thought he's a great guy.
		I know one personally, and he was on TV tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you always hear that about serial killers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why, he was next door!
unidentified		He was an okay guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he was very quiet.
		And he always held the door for me when I came through.
		And he always had a smile on his face.
unidentified		And, you know, he worked with the Cub Scouts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, just the nicest guy in the world.
		And, of course, he murdered six people, 13 people, whatever.
		I'm speaking more generically now.
		You're on the Air Coast Coast Day and with Art Bell.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Mr. Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Howdy, where are you?
unidentified		I'm right here in your own backyard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My own backyard.
unidentified		In Prump, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're in Prump, Nevada.
		All right, we're listening to...
		On?
unidentified		On K9.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		K-9.
		I had to drag it out of you.
		All right, listen, we don't have a lot of time.
		What's up?
unidentified		No, I was just my wide range of audience.
		You have great people.
		I was just curious as to your thoughts on cloning.
		I know mankind's been cloning themselves for millions of years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, even right now, sir, you can get your cat cloned.
		What is it?
		What's the name of that guy?
		Well, anyway, it wouldn't come to me, but for about 50 grand, or maybe even a discount at 30 grand now, I don't know.
		You can get your cat cloned.
		An exact, precise duplicate.
unidentified		I've had nothing but bad luck since the day I saw the cat at my door.
		So I came into you, sweet lady.
		Answering your mystical call.
		Crystal ball on the table.
		Show him up future the past.
		Swing cat with them evil.
		You tell him you see, and you talk about everything.
		He's got this dream about farms and land.
		He's gonna give up the booze and the one that's had.
		Let it settle down.
		Quiet little down and forget about everything.
		You know he's always keep moving.
		You know he's never gonna stop moving.
		Cause he's rolling.
		He's the road to stone.
		When you wake up, it's a new morning.
		The sun is shining.
		It's a new morning.
		You're going.
		You're going home.
		You're going.
		To talk with Art Bell.
		Call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from East of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From West of the Rockies, call ART at 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing Option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Got a feeling that what you're going to hear tonight, ABC wouldn't dare put on the air.
		They wouldn't dare.
		Or if they did, that would be the 10th show down the line.
		Tonight, Greg Bishop publishes and edits the Excluded Middle.
		It's a journal of UFOs, conspiracy, research, psychedelia, and new science.
		His reports, interviews, and Features have appeared in several national publications.
		Greg has spoken publicly at various conferences and meetings, including most recently the first annual UFO Crash Retrieval Conference in Las Vegas and the Ancient Science and Modern Secrets Conference in December of 2004.
		He has also appeared on many radio and television and internet interview programs.
		For two years, he was host, engineer, and DJ for The Hungry Ghost, a radio show of interviews and music airing on Pirate FM station, KBLT in Los Angeles.
		Pirate, huh?
		His current show, Radio...
		Missy Ostro, I guess, can be heard on Sundays from 8 to 10 p.m.
		at www.killradio.org.
		That's another, I think that's another pirate operation.
		creation.
		Very interesting.
		You've never heard him on Coast to Coast AM, but you will in a moment.
		Greg Bishop.
unidentified		Stay right back.
unidentified		Greg Bishop.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, about a million responses to my new doise caller.
		And that's the only way you're ever going to get that kind of caller message going out here is open lines.
		You just simply take what comes.
		You don't screen it out.
		You don't edit it out because you never really know what you're going to get until you explore a little bit.
		So some of the more classic things that will ever happen on this kind of radio occur when you have truly open lines.
		Now, to my guest, Greg Bishop.
		This should be an interesting evening, Greg.
		Welcome to the program.
		Thank you, Ort.
		How did you get involved?
		First of all, I guess I had to follow up.
		Killradio.org, that's another pirate organization, isn't it?
unidentified		No, it's an internet radio station.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But didn't they have also a bit of a broadcast facility at one point?
unidentified		I believe somebody was broadcasting it for a while, but it's been very spotty.
		I think they were just taking things off the internet and broadcasting them out over the Los Angeles area.
		KVLT went for, I think, three straight years until the FCC finally caught up with us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Closed in, huh?
unidentified		Yeah, I know that you had an FM high-risk, didn't you, when you were a teenager, I think?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, that was when I was in the United States Air Force.
		Fortunately, by the time I told that story, why the Statute of Limitations had long since expired.
		But yes, we did it.
		It was a long story, and it was a lot of fun.
		So there you are, Greg.
		You've been with the Pirates, huh?
unidentified		Yes.
		It was quite interesting.
		I had a very late-night show.
		I did interviews and music for a little over two years until the FCC finally caught up with us and took the equipment and said, you can either, to the person that was running the station, said, you can either give us your equipment or we can take you to court and you might have to pay a fine of something like $10,000 or $15,000.
		So she gave him the equipment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All an offer she couldn't refuse.
unidentified		And she's written a book about it, too, which is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Many people have.
		It's a remarkable thing.
		At any rate, you must have, I don't know, to be on pirate radio, it must mean that you had something to say that was not, well, exactly mainstream, perhaps.
unidentified		Yeah, it was, you know, it's basically what you do on your show with the open lines, et cetera, except we could say, do anything we wanted.
unidentified		There was absolutely no restriction because obviously we weren't licensed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A total lack of responsibility.
unidentified		Yes, we never got called on anything, really.
		It was wonderful.
		That's kind of how Kill Radio is now because internet radio is pretty much the same thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I follow the pirate community a little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, you know, I've always been interested.
unidentified		I was surprised you knew that somebody was pirating our signal and sending it out in L.A. in the last year they did it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As I said, I keep track of this stuff.
		So there you are.
		Anyway, Richard, how did you get interested in ufology?
unidentified		Greg, you mean?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Greg, yes.
		I'm sorry.
		How did you get interested in ufology?
unidentified		You know, it's very strange.
		I don't exactly know how I got interested, but I do remember when I was a kid, my father used to take us to the library every week and say, get as many books as you want, read them all, and bring them, and we'll bring them back next week.
		And we just did this over and over.
		And for some reason, and I can't really tell why, I cleared out all the UFO and Paranormal and Cryptozoology shelves in one library.
		We went to another library and I cleared all those shelves out over the course of a year or so.
		And then I went back to the first library and did it again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And somewhere along the line, something caught your eye.
unidentified		Yeah, it's funny, though, because I was interested in it up to probably about junior high school, and then it kind of dropped out of my life until after I graduated college, and I had a very tempestuous period, and for some reason, the subject came rushing back to me like it wouldn't be denied.
unidentified		It was very strange, and that was in 1988, and since then, that's what I've been interested in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I sort of promote the possibility of a surprise guest.
		Can you confirm that indeed we are going to have our little surprise guest on shortly?
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		I called him, and he said that he would be ready.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you want to give his name?
unidentified		I think I'll let him give his name.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got to let him do it, all right?
unidentified		Yeah, I believe he said it was all right to give his name, but I'll just let him do it because I want to make absolutely sure that's what he wants to do because he hasn't talked anywhere to anyone publicly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's cheese it a little bit.
		He was an Air Force.
		He worked for the Air Force Office of Special Investigation Disaster.
unidentified		yes.
unidentified		He was an agent with the AFOSI at Kirtland Air Force Base in the late 70s up through the mid-80s, I believe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he is going to claim what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That he dispensed on official orders, I would presume, disinformation.
unidentified		Yes, to a certain individual who I wrote this book about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that individual is...
unidentified		He died about a week before the first time I came out there to start working on interviews for the book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was it about Paul Benowitz that fascinated you?
unidentified		Well, that's kind of a long story.
		However, what happened to Paul Benowitz, I will tell you the story of Paul Benowitz, is that he lived next to Kirtland Air Force Base in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
		And around 1979, he started noticing strange lights flying around the base doing things that airplanes normally couldn't do.
		This is common around military bases.
		However, he started filming them, and I think videotaping them if he had some sort of videotape set up.
		And he also started picking up signals from the base, radio signals.
		I don't know what band these were on, what exactly the messages contained or what the transmissions were.
		There were a few guesses I made in the book.
		But he began to think that these lights combined with these signals had something to do with aliens being around the base.
		So he made an effort to contact the Air Force and say, do you know you have these things flying around your base and they're sending out these signals that are very strange.
		They seem like bursts of information.
		And do you know about this?
		And as soon as he called up the Air Force, they were, you know, they get crank calls all the time.
		So they questioned him a little bit and started to realize that he might be seeing something that he shouldn't.
		And what Air Force Base?
		Kirtland Air Force Base.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kirtland, all right, Kirtland.
unidentified		Yes, it's right, it borders Albuquerque.
unidentified		In fact, when you land at the Albuquerque airport, you fly right over it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so the Air Force did what?
unidentified		The Air Force called him in.
		They called him into a meeting eventually.
		Actually, first, they had this person we're going to talk to go out to his house and try and figure out what it was he was seeing, what possibly he had seen, and what he might be doing with it.
		And based on that information, they called him in for a meeting at the Air Force Base with a few of the brass and the intelligence people and other people who were doing work on the base.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you see, now, normally, this would seem like a pretty far-out story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, just pretty far out, but we actually have the officer that went out to first interview him.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How fascinating is this?
		All right.
		And continue with his story.
unidentified		Well, he did go to this meeting.
		I think it was in early 1980, the first half of 1980.
		He came onto the base and started to give this presentation.
		Now, I was not able to talk to anybody who was at this presentation.
		However, I did talk to a man in the NSA, National Security Agency, who talked to somebody who was at this meeting.
		I said, so when Paul Benowitz came in to do this, to give this presentation, what happened?
		Well, in the first place, actually, they thought he might have something because he wasn't just some Joe Schmo.
		He was an electrical physicist, and he had his own company, Thunder Scientific, which manufactured humidity and temperature calibration and things like that for actually for military contractors, among others.
		So they thought maybe that his word would carry a little bit more weight when he started describing these things.
		So this man that was at the meeting said that Benowitz started giving his presentation and started off very slowly and then started in with his, I think these are aliens and alien ships flying around your base and I think they're trying to communicate with each other or us and I'd like to know what you're doing about it or if you know anything about it.
		And the strange thing was that this man told me was that a lot of people, he said maybe there were maybe 20 people at the meeting to begin with.
		And by the time Benowitz got finished, there were two or three.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Meaning they walked out?
unidentified		Yeah, they walked out.
		I asked him, well, why would they do that?
		I mean, he said, I think they thought it had nothing to do with what they were doing, so they left.
		But there were two or three people that did think it had something to do with what they were doing.
		One of those people was the AFOSI commander, who I believe at that time was Thomas Shea, C-S-E-H, and an unidentified man from the NSA.
		So by the time he finished this, these two or three people realized that he might be onto something that he wasn't supposed to be.
		And as it turned out, it had very little to do with UFOs and very much to do with secret projects going on at the base.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would have been my initial guess, Greg, that it was something at Kirtland going on.
		I mean, hello, it's an Air Force base, probably doing experimental things.
		Why wouldn't that be Hockham's razor, the very first conclusion anybody would come to?
unidentified		Well, because Benowitz was, while he had this business, and he was very good at what he did, and he was a very good electrical physicist, a lot of people have said this, while he was a very intelligent person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he was claiming they were aliens.
unidentified		Yeah, he had this kind of Achilles heel.
		He was very interested in the UFO phenomenon.
		And granted, those lights flying around, other people saw them, didn't really say anything about them, or if they did, they therefore said, oh, don't worry about it.
		And people just generally shut up.
		But Benowitz was very interested because he was Basically, a ufologist or very interested in UFOs anyway.
		And he became convinced single-mindedly that this was what was going on, and nobody could tell him any different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so at the very end of this story, though, it was things going on at Kirtland or what?
unidentified		Yeah, there were things going on there.
		There were quite a few different projects.
		I was able to identify maybe two or three of them that were going on, which were things he was directly looking at, and they didn't want him looking at, because if he could see these things, then anybody could.
		And this was still in the middle of the Cold War, right at the beginning of the Reagan era, 79, 80 there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did these things turn out to be?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know?
unidentified		Oh, you want to give them away right here at the beginning?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, I'm curious, sure.
unidentified		Okay.
		Let's see.
		One of the things they were doing there, I'm giving away the book now.
		But one of the things they were doing there was there's a very great story about how I found this out, which we'll get into later, partially found this out.
		But one of the things they were doing there was tracking Soviet spy satellites.
		Because these things would come over, you know, over the base, over the United States all the time.
		You've seen, you know, after the Soviet Union fell, people were, the KGB or somebody were selling satellite pictures of various places, including Area 51.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		Which had been taken by these satellites.
		They'd come over the United States, generally during the day, I think, because that's where you could see things, and take pictures of the base.
		The U.S. government, the Air Force, the Defense Intelligence Agency specifically knew that they were doing this, and they wanted to find out how they could possibly foil this espionage, this spying.
		So they had agents in the Soviet Union.
		A lot of people know this.
		A lot of Soviet agents were here.
		A lot of our agents were in the Soviet Union posing as citizens, doing various things and getting close to defense projects or somewhere in the vicinity of them so that they could report back on them.
		But what they found out was how these satellites worked.
		And they sent back, through various channels, sent back information on these satellites.
		So the people at Kirtland were basically able to back engineer what was going on or at least engineer a way to track these things and eventually to even control them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean to control the Russian satellites?
unidentified		Yes.
		I was told.
		It's very hard to find any kind of information on this through Freedom of Information, I think.
		I only had a year to write the book.
		And I had to rely on the testimony of at least a couple people that worked at Kirtland and the suspicions of others.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have yet to understand what represents the actual lights and craft and things that made Paul Benowitz think that aliens were involved.
unidentified		Well, that's, I'll have to go back a little bit.
		In 1979, at the time he was seeing these lights, he was made aware of a very early abduction episode.
		Now, the way this happened, have you heard of, well, I'll get to it.
		This woman was driving back from Oklahoma, you know, the little panhandle there that sticks and touches New Mexico.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		She was driving back from that panhandle of Oklahoma to her home in northeastern New Mexico.
		And during this ride, her and her son saw these giant craft hovering over a field.
		She said one was almost football field size, the other one was a little bit smaller.
		And what they said they saw was a cow being sucked up into the bottom of this craft.
		This is what they remembered.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I actually have heard that story, yes.
unidentified		Yeah, this is the Myrna Hansen story.
		And they also had some missing time.
		Now, back in 1979, this is before Bud Hopkins' book had come out, this was fairly new, fairly new kind of thing for people to be investigating.
		As we know, it might have been going on for quite a long time.
		However, this woman called the New Mexico State Police the next day to try and report it, find out what had happened, if anybody else had seen it.
		As it turns out, about 10 or 15 years later, somebody else had seen these craft.
		And her husband, it was a woman, her husband actually was in the New Mexico State Police.
		However, she called the New Mexico State Police.
		They didn't really know what to do with it.
		However, they did know of some guy that was interested.
		One of their officers was interested in this kind of phenomena, what was going on, and cattle being mutilated by whoever or whatever does it.
		And this was Gabe Valdez, who you probably have heard of.
		He was a police officer near Dulcie, New Mexico, where there had been a lot of cattle mutilations and strange lights flying around.
		So apparently people in the New Mexico State Police knew Gabe Valdez as the weird stuff guy.
		So they referred this woman, Myrna, to him.
		And Gabe Valdez had actually met Paul Benowitz at a cattle mutilation conference that the state senator Harrison Schmidt had convened about a year before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I hate to rush to this, but if it wasn't aliens abducting these cows or people, then who was it?
		And if it was the Air Force, why?
		Always wanted to know that.
unidentified		Well, there's a lot of theories about cattle mutilation.
		I actually, on my show, I interviewed Chris O'Brien.
		Have you talked to him?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		He wrote a book called The Mysterious Valley.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And his view is what?
unidentified		His view, and a few of the other researchers, well, it's multifaceted.
		It seems like there's a few things that explain many of them, and others, you know, and other theories don't.
		It's very mercical, if you know what I mean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on, Greg.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		My guest is Greg Bishop, and in a very few moments, the man he was talking about, who I will not yet name, and we'll get down to cases.
		In the nighttime, I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		The world's on fire.
		No one can save me but you.
		Strange world desires to make foolish people.
		I've never dreamed that I'd meet somebody like you.
		I've never dreamed that I'd meet somebody like you.
		A fool comes to see trying hard to recreate what had yet to be created.
		Once in her life, she musters a smile for his nostalgic tear.
		Never coming near what he wanted to say.
		It never really was.
		Never placed in his life.
		Never made her thinker.
		And she rises to her apology.
		Anybody else would surely know.
		Is watching her go.
		But do you see the wise man has a power?
		talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach ART by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is this night with Greg Bishop and a kind of a surprise guest coming up in a moment.
		We'll sort of try to put what Greg is trying to say into some sort of logical order in a moment.
		Stay right there.
		Well, all right, let's see if we can get to the bottom of what Greg is saying.
		His book is Project Beta.
		This might help.
		The story of Paul Benowitz, National Security, and the Creation of a Modern UFO Myth.
		By Greg Bishop.
		All right, so Greg, so that we can all understand what's going on here.
unidentified		Would you like me to summarize it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you could.
unidentified		All right.
		We have talked about Paul Benowitz and what he was seeing.
		The Air Force became concerned about what he was seeing because it might compromise some things that they had going on at the base, at Kirtland Air Force Base.
		And he kept telling them that it was aliens, and surprisingly enough, they didn't tell him any different.
		And eventually, it ended up with him in a mental hospital for about three months in about 1988.
		And a lot of these stories he was told, and a lot of stories he came up with that were bolstered by the Air Force intelligence people and to some extent the NSA, ended up as part of the UFO lore and rumor mill through the 80s and up even to today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was he of sound mind?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you said he spent some time in a mental institution, or was that just some kind of persecution, in your view, or what?
unidentified		No, he was single-minded that he thought there was an alien invasion imminent and the government should do something about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And the government did not try to dissuade him from this because they wanted to know, intelligence specifically, they wanted to know what he knew, how he knew it, who he might be talking to or who was listening to him, and how they could protect against that in the future.
unidentified		Because if you have somebody, just a regular citizen, albeit a fairly intelligent one, doing this, then just about anybody could, including who they were very concerned about, which was the Soviets at the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's bring our other guest on, and we'll let him give his own name.
		Hi there.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to the program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is your name, if you wish to give it?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		It's Richard Doty.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Richard Doty.
		Richard, welcome to the program.
		You were in the Air Force Office of Special Investigation OSI?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I was special agent with Air Force Office of Special Investigation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did you become involved with this Benowitz case?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		I was informed that Paul Benowitz had called the base and reported some strange occurrences that were happening near Manzano Base, which was a base within Kirtland Air Force Base.
		Housing, at that time, it was sensitive to say, but now it can be disclosed.
		It was housed at nuclear weapons, one of the probably the largest nuclear weapon storage areas in the southwest.
		And it took some years on the base, and eventually the information got to our office.
		I was the counterintelligence officer of the base.
		The information got to my desk, and I briefed my commander, And we sent a little message up to headquarters, and we were tasked with obtaining all the information we could from Paul.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Paul was seeing things, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He was seeing lights, or what specifically were Paul's claims?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		We went, actually, the first time I met Paul, he came to the base.
		We actually invited him to the base.
		He went to the base police office, the security police office for the base.
		And he spoke with a major and a captain at the time who was in charge of the base security.
		And he gave this captain some information about what he was seeing from his house.
		And he lived in a Floyd Hills area, which was just adjacent to the base perimeter of Manzano Bay in the northeast portion of Albuquerque.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again, what was he claiming to be seen?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		He claimed he saw lights, flashing lights, objects flying around Manzano.
		He claimed he saw a light shooting out of the ground, into the sky, and then from the sky down into the base.
		And so what he took upon himself to do was take pictures and use some electronic monitoring equipment to monitor these strange occurrences, these lights and other things that he was seeing.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So he was sort of like a nosy neighbor by the base.
unidentified		That's a good way to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And an informed nosy neighbor at that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A guy who apparently knew what he was doing.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you were informed to, you were told then by higher-ups to what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Make contact with him and do what?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		We eventually made an appointment.
		Myself and another person went out to his house.
		We visited him and we viewed the equipment that he had in his residence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were officer rank, by the way?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		I was a special agent, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Special agent.
		All right.
		And you went out and saw the equipment he had in the house?
unidentified		Yes.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		He had two cameras, movie cameras.
		He had a number of electronic gathering devices that he had pointed towards Manzano.
		And he showed us all the pictures he took.
		Well, he didn't show us all at that time, but he showed us some pictures that he had taken.
		And plus he showed us a lot of the electronic gadgetry that he had.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		And I brought another person along because I wasn't the technical person to understand the electronics that he had, but this other person was and could understand what he had.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		And what we did was we viewed everything, we interviewed him, and then we went back and we made a report and we sent it up to headquarters.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what was the substance of your report?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		The report was that this person had sufficient knowledge and the right equipment to tap into sensitive communications equipment and sensitive projects that was occurring on Kirtland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		All right, somewhere in the mix of all this comes disinformation.
		In other words, you are going to admit tonight, I believe, that you dispensed disinformation.
		Is that true?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		That's absolutely true.
		That's what our in the arena of intelligence, you have different types of intelligence.
		You have intelligence gatherers and you have counterintelligence.
		And one task of a counterintelligence division is to make sure that our secrets are protected.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Got it.
		So here we've got a man who thought that there were aliens among us, as it were, and right in his backyard and over the Air Force base that you were working for.
		And so what did you tell him?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Well, we convinced him.
		We actually did, we had two, we had a two-tier way of doing this.
		The first thing we did was we became very interested in everything he had.
		We wanted him to think that we were very, very concerned with everything that he had.
		In fact, at some point later on, NSA became involved in this because they were extremely interested in some of the equipment that he had because he was actually tapping into a particular type of communications that he shouldn't have been able to do.
		And so NSA wanted to know, how did he do that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		So we became very, very good friends, and that's one thing you do in counterintelligence, become friends with a person, you start vetting him, And then eventually you start feeding them information.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		And what we did was we convinced him that what he was picking up wasn't anything classified from the base, but in fact, it probably was of alien origin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My goodness.
		Did you really, and how did you do that?
		What did you say to him to convince him of that?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Well, we didn't even have to say really anything.
		He had the forethought already that what he was picking up, he had an idea.
		Initially, he thought maybe it was classified.
		He told us, listen, if I tapped into something, let me know.
		Well, we weren't going to do that because we don't know who his friends were.
		And we couldn't really, he wasn't a trusted person.
		So what we did was we said, well, I think what you tapped into is something unknown.
		So let's work together on this, Paul.
		So we did.
		And what we did was we just, we were using his own, everything that he gathered, and we were just turning it around and making him, convincing him what he was looking at was, wasn't anything from the base, but it was alien in origin.
unidentified		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		So you hardly had to say anything.
		Sort of a wink and a nod, perhaps, at the right moment, or sort of a Confirming smile or nothing more serious than that.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly.
		That's it.
		Initially, we had to do some other things eventually down the road, but initially.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like what?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Well, eventually down the road, he claimed that there was an alien base at Archoleta Peak or Archoleta Mountain up near Dulce, New Mexico, in the northern portion of New Mexico.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Many people have thought that, yes.
unidentified		Right.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		And so what we did, he kept going up there.
		He was a pilot.
		Paul was a pilot.
		He would fly up there and he would photograph things.
		And he was convinced that the things that he was photographing was actually an alien base.
		So what we did was we went ahead and fortified his thought by putting a fence up there around certain things, bringing in some helicopters from Fort Carson, Colorado Army helicopters, which, by the way, they were using that area as a training base also.
		I mean, it was a classified, at that time, it's not anymore, but at that time it was a classified training area for special operations missions.
		And they were up there, they were using that area.
		So there was already helicopters flying around up there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what did you do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Paint them dark jet black or something?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		We had a couple black helicopters.
		And we had some things planted onto the ground around Archoletta Peak.
		and just to convince him that what he was actually looking at, he thought it was an alien base.
unidentified		So it served your purpose.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So simply convince him that his suspicions are correct and you have somebody who's just regarded as a nut and the whole thing is dismissed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that the rough idea?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		That's the rough idea.
		It's easier for us to have done it that way than to get a search warrant and a seizure warrant and seize all his property, seize his equipment, and what would that do?
		That would cause a lot of publicity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		And the wrong type of publicity that the base wanted.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Richard, many of us want to know how such operations are done.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I guess what I'd like to know, Richard, is how universal you think this kind of tactic is.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		It is quite unique.
		At least at that time, I'm out of the business now and I haven't been out for a long time.
		But I know during the 60s and 70s and into the 80s, it was widespread.
		It was a primary tactic used by U.S. intelligence for a number of things.
		We're not just talking about UFOs or aliens.
		We talk about a lot of different things.
		You can use disinformation to disinform anyone about anything if you play your cards right.
		Now, one thing about disinformation, and this wasn't the only operation we did against somebody with UFO information, one of the things is giving them enough information, some information that is credible for them to lead them along the path.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the very best lies, of course, have nuggets of truth buried at their center.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		And this is an art that is taught.
		I mean, I didn't come up with all this myself.
		I was trained.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you go to disinformation school?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was a counterintelligence and counter-espionage school, but that's what they taught, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there was a, well, gee, lots of people believed an underground and still do, that there's an underground base at Dulcie, right?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I suppose lots of people still think there's something going on in and around Kirtland Air Force Base.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure they probably still do.
		There are some myths that float over the base, and they still do.
		I mean, there's people, especially the old-timers that live around there, they still think that there's underground base, and they still think that there's a UFO hidden inside Monzana.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've heard that, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So this whole thing, then, is one gigantic myth, and it's a myth that you admit as a disinformation specialist that you planted.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Well, it just wasn't me.
		I mean, it was a team.
		I couldn't have done this all myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you feel any guilt for this?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Later on, yes.
		Absolutely.
		It was meant to be a short-term operation to disinform him and then kind of walk away from it and let Paul think and do disinformation.
		If you play your cards right, if the operation is right, all you have to do is plant the seed and walk away, and that person carries it on.
		And he informs others, and the others believe him, and it just blossoms.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, are you aware that, according to Greg, Paul spent some time in a psychiatric facility?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
		And I visited Paul a number of times.
		I became good friends with Paul, and towards the end of this operation, I tried to convince Paul.
		Now, this wasn't me as an OSI agent.
		This was me as a person because I was concerned about Paul's health.
		I was trying to convince Paul, and I went through his son to do this, that, hey, everything we told you before, Paul, isn't true.
		And I explained to him why we were doing it.
		But he never believed me.
		He said, no, I can't believe you, Rick, because...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lie to me once and lie to me twice, you know, that kind of thing.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		So I can see why that, you know, he would just think you were in official denial.
		You know, emergency mode, we've got to deny all this.
		Because he had bought into the first thing anyway, and you just bolstered that.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, that's exactly.
		And we tried, you know, I visited Paul, well, right up until I think probably eight months before his death, I became friends with him, took him to dinner, and he never I tried to talk to him, I tried to talk him away from that subject, and he was totally convinced.
		Now, unfortunately, during this time period, Paul became friends with some other people within the community, within the UFO community, and they were reinforcing on him that it was all true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Richard, how many other cases like Paul's were you involved in when you worked for OSI?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Three.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Three other cases?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Four total.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Four total.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These were all cases where you dispensed, intentionally dispensed, disinformation on this kind of subject, or was it different things?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		No, pertaining to just UFOs, it was the four operations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Four operations.
unidentified		Was one of the other ones with Linda Howell?
unidentified		Yes.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		The other one was Linda Howell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy mackerel.
		All right.
		Well, I'm going to want to hear a lot about that, Richard.
		Are you willing to talk about the disinformation fed to Linda?
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		My goodness.
		All right, gentlemen.
		Let me ask, Richard, when was that?
		Can you recall?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		In 80, I believe it was 8384 timeframe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		8384.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Linda did a very good piece on cattle mutilation some years before that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		Well, listen, let's take a break right here.
		You two hold on.
		This will give somebody time to call Linda up and say, hey, Linda, you better turn on the radio.
		Disinformation.
		Do we really do that?
unidentified		Yeah, it's here in the dark.
		It's raining in the park.
		But meantime.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you ever doubt it?
unidentified		Sound of the river, you stopping your hole.
		Everything A man is blowing mixing, double fall time.
		Feel alright when you hear the music break Music Well now you step inside, but you don't see too many things in coming out of the rain, baby, the jazz go down.
		You keep on trying, walking You really don't know why.
		Baby, when you need a smile, you'll never shadow in the way.
		You'll come to me.
		Baby, you'll see.
		The love you pretty, baby, was gonna help me through the night.
		The love you pretty, mama, was always left to me.
		But I do.
		We're gonna love you, love you.
		We're gonna love you.
		But I do.
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		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to the seedier side of ufology, folks.
		My guest is Greg Bishop, and he has brought with him Richard Doughty, who was with the OSI Office of Special Investigation and Apparently DIS Information.
		Target number two to be discussed.
		He dropped the name Linda Howe a few moments ago, and of course, we just can't let that go, so we'll be right back.
		Well, as I was saying, in the first hour, you just never know what you can run into on talk radio.
		It's just, it's one of those wild things.
		It's not like any other medium in the world.
		Here, we've run straight into a disinformation agent.
		And I want to make sure that I've got your name.
		I'm pronouncing your name correctly.
		Is it Richard Doty?
		That is correct.
		Richard, it's not every day you get to talk to somebody who freely admits they're a disinformation specialist.
		Anyway, you dropped the name Linda Moulton Howell before the break.
		So what in the world did you do to Linda?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Well, in 83, she did a cattle mutilation story, I think, in the late 70s with Denver Station.
		She used to work for a Denver Station, and she went on her own.
		Linda was going to air a, or she was working on a UFO special, and for some reason the government didn't want her to air that.
		And so we worked an operation against her.
		Unfortunately, it wasn't a very successful operation because although the television special was never aired, it somewhat backfired on us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tell me about the operation.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Well, Linda was invited to Kirtland Air Force Base, and I was the primary agent.
		There were two other agents involved in it, not just me, but there's two others.
		And we invited her to Kirtland.
		We showed her some information pertaining to UFOs, showed her a document, and tried to bring her and hook her on a hook.
		And she took it initially.
		And then we carried on a contact with her over a period of time, meeting her at different locations and providing her with some information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were doing this on official orders?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, official orders, yes, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Linda was, indeed, I guess, about to do a special on cattle mutilation.
		She's been concentrating on that for years.
		So what was it exactly you tried to sell her?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		We tried to sell her the promise that we were going to assist her with information, that we were going to actually provide her with some legitimate information for her special.
		But what we were doing was delaying it.
		Now, we also had an operation, the government, not just me, I didn't have anything to do with this other operation, with another entity on the East Coast, with one of the broadcasting companies.
		And they were doing something different there, which I'm not really privy to what they were doing there.
unidentified		Was that with HBO, Rick?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		I believe it was HBO, yes.
unidentified		Because HBO was the one that was sponsoring the special.
unidentified		Linda kept telling them she was going to get some film from you, and like you said, stringing them along.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, God, I remember that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Linda told me about that.
unidentified		And HBO scrapped the special because she never got the film they thought was going to be part of the crowning achievement of the documentary.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that was somebody you knew, Richard?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Somebody I knew as far as...
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		I was doing it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were personally doing it.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Well, which wasn't just me.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		There were three other people involved in it, three other agents.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the motivation, again, for the government ordering you to do this was to delay the airing of the special.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's no way we can not know you're not feeding us disinformation now.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm out of the business.
		I've been out of business for a long time.
		I have no reason to be disinforming you now.
		Linda is aware of this.
		I mean, I have had a number of contacts with Linda Howell over the years, and she's aware of this.
		But what we were also trying to do was we were trying to, she was involved with some other things, some other research pertaining to the UFO, and we were trying to feed her information to lead her astray.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Richard, you must know a lot more about this.
		In other words, if you're trying to get Linda to delay release of a special about animal mutilations, maybe you can tell me something about animal mutilations.
		Or did your job not include the need to know that?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		My job did not have anything to do with, well, I didn't have a specific knowledge at that time to understand what the government was doing with cattle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you now?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, I do.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		We might want to leave that for another day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's really a complicated...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would like to know if it's...
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Only, only there was a small operation, and I learned this later.
		I had no official knowledge of this during the time.
		I didn't have a clearance for it then.
		I learned this later.
		I learned this after I got out of OSI.
		In fact, I was a civilian when I learned this, and I learned this in a room with six or seven other intelligence officers who were also retired and telling stories.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, tell me a story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was our government doing with these cows?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Our government was collecting certain things from these cattle.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Now, it wasn't just cattle, actually, it was horses and elk and deer and things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		And they were using it to create some kind of a bio-prevention system, a biological agent prevention system.
		And they were injecting these cows and then they would come back and take certain organs from these cows.
		And they developed a unique method of doing it by draining the blood first and then taking certain organs from the cows.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, maybe you can explain the part of this that I've never been able to grasp, Richard, and that is why would the government need to do this to farmers' cows when they could easily get their own cows?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		That's why it's a complicated system.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		It's again, it stemmed around wanting, the government was doing this, but they wanted everybody to think it was something else, some other entity doing it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They wanted people to think it was aliens.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Aliens, yeah.
		Now, I said, I didn't know that at the time.
		I learned this later.
		I had nothing to do with that operation, so I had no first-hand knowledge then of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So do you see that later?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you now believe, though, that the reports of cattle mutilations and all the rest of it are indeed true, but are indeed done by our government?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Well, no.
		Initially, yes, because this operation, the government operation, ceased in 1982.
		It was from, I think, 70-something, 77, 78, until 82.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you're not in the government now.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm not in the 80s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can't really know what they're doing.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't, really.
		But I know that the government operation ceased in 82.
		Now, if there were cattle amutations after that, According to my sources who were involved in that operation then, it wasn't the government doing it.
		So we don't know who was doing it after that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I also have received allegations on the computer where I get messages here, my FastBlast, that you fed Stanton Friedman disinformation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that true?
unidentified		No.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		No.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		I never had anything to do with Stan Friedman.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did anybody in your department, did you hear anything about it?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Pardon?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you hear anything about disinformation being fed to him, perhaps by others?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
		I never heard it.
		Bill Moore asked me that back in 12 years ago, and I said, no, I had nothing to do with Stan Friedman.
		I had no operation against Stan Friedman.
		Paul Benowitz, Linda Howe, and two other groups of people that we had an operation against.
		And the other two, I didn't play a big role in those operations.
		The one I played a big role in was Paul Benowitz and Linda.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there any doubt in your mind that our government is still doing exactly that there's somebody doing Richard Dodie's past job in today's armed services?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm positive somebody's doing it.
		It's such a great method of laying people astray or moving in the street.
		And today, speaking today in 2005, I'm not proud of what I did.
		I mean, I had a job to do, and I did my job.
		I mean, just like you served in the Air Force.
		I know you did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		You had a job in the Air Force.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		You did your job in the Air Force.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		I had a job in the Air Force.
		I did my job.
		I followed orders.
		Everything we did was following orders.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Perhaps so, but my orders never included orders to never to lie to people.
unidentified		Were you an intelligence art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was a medic in the Air Force.
unidentified		Okay, well, then that wouldn't have been part of your job, I guess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, exactly right.
		That's what I'm saying.
		That's the difference.
		I followed orders, but those orders never came down intentionally ordering me to lie to somebody.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, I do feel the way you do now, Art.
unidentified		I do.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		I really do.
		Then I didn't.
		I mean, I didn't, you know, I was 28, 29-year-old.
		I didn't think of it that way.
		It was an order, and it was an operation, and we were doing what we were told to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm not passing judgment on you.
		I'm just trying to understand all of what you did and how it might relate to what's going on today.
		I mean, the whole question of you followed, did you see the ABC special the other night?
unidentified		Yes, I did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		They said the whole Roswell thing was a myth.
		They reduced it to a myth.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Well, I tell you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe they know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe they know, Richard, because maybe they cooked it up, huh?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		No.
		No.
		There's too much information that's already been readily available, and there's too much information that hasn't been released yet that a lot of people with intelligence know about that can show that Roswell wasn't in the end.
		Roswell actually happened.
unidentified		Yes, but what was it that happened according to these sources and people you know?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		It happened just like the myth said, basically, is that an alien spacecraft crashed northwest of Roswell, south of Corona.
unidentified		And according to what you found out from your years in the Air Force, that's what you believe.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		One of the things that happened to me in early 1979, I was briefed in to this counterintelligence program.
		In order to run a disinformation program, you have to know the truth.
		And we were briefed in, and we were given a certain level of clearance that gave us access to the past history of Earth's visitation by extraterrestrials.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that's why I asked you about the cows, the truth about the cows.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How could you spread disinformation, your own words, without knowing the truth, which you said you didn't know?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Not about the cows.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		No, not about...
unidentified		Yes.
		The documentary Linda was doing was a UFO documentary.
		It wasn't on cattle mutilations, that particular one.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		That HBO special was about UFOs.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		It wasn't cattle mutilations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		But you're telling me, and I do recall hearing this story from Linda, that you had promised this incredible footage.
		Right.
		And HBO had bought into it based on that and your representations to Linda.
		And then, of course, you didn't produce and it all fell through.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Well, there was another part of this that was occurring within HBO by some other people that, you know, another part of that operation was some intelligence people were talking to HBO, and they were doing something different through HBO.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		So it all, and the final outcome, they dropped it because of the footage that we promised her.
unidentified		They had done this before to Robert Emmeneger in the late 70s when they were doing a documentary.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Early 70s.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Early 70s.
unidentified		Early 70s, I'm sorry.
		This was before Richard was in the Air Force.
		Yeah.
		And strangely enough, to Walt Disney, I think, in the 50s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Exactly.
		It did.
		He did.
		And it was OSI that did it.
		I mean, we were good.
		OSI was really good in this.
		We perfected this.
		And we taught other agents that technique, the technique.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so how widespread would you guess it is now, Richard?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		I'd say it was still widespread.
		I think that I listen to your show, I mean, I listen to a show quite often.
		You have a lot of good guests on there that have some great information that's legitimate.
		And then you have some that it just sounds To me, like they've been brainwashed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're absolutely right, Richard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I haven't yet figured out where to put you and Greg.
unidentified		It's a question I asked Richard very early on.
unidentified		you know when you that they came in and embedded you on this information on u_f_ o_s_ in the government involvement with them how do you know they weren't disinforming you because you said you never saw an alien body or a In fact, I would like to understand how that vetting went.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did they actually inform?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much did they tell you, Richard?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Okay, what they did was they took me into a room in an Air Force Special Security office.
		It was a colonel and a civilian.
		There was two of us in there at that time to be briefed.
		They sat us down and they gave us a slide presentation of a short slide presentation of what we were going to get and some other things.
		And then they showed us a film.
		It was a 16mm film, classified, code word classified, which started, and it was a narration of Roswell.
		I mean, what we were watching there was the actual film of the recovery operation in Roswell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're telling me you saw a film of the real operation in Roswell?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		It was part of this briefing film.
		It was the real thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you know that?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, I had no reason to doubt it.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Why would they be feeding us that disinformation?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Greg asked the same question just a minute ago.
		How do you know that what you were getting was a real McCoy?
		That you weren't being fed disinformation yourself.
		After all, your bosses were better at it than you.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		That's clearly possible, but by other things that occurred later on, and some of the things that if you want me to go into why you're doing it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Well, we were briefed into it then.
		I mean, they showed us this.
		They gave us that briefing.
		We had to sign her life away.
unidentified		You said some people couldn't handle it, and they kind of dropped out.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		There were a number of people that dropped out of this program because they just couldn't handle it because of either a personality conflict or a religious conflict or something else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you signed your life away, what are you doing on the radio talking to a national audience about it?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Because 25 years have passed, and this brings up another point.
		I sat in a room with several OSI officials some years ago, and I voiced my concern about the fact that why can't you tell the truth now after all these years?
		There's no reason why the government can't tell the truth.
		It really can't.
		And they said, well, we're not going to tell the truth.
		We can't tell the truth.
		There's a lot of reasons why.
		I said, but you're disinforming everybody.
		Even today, especially the mogul thing about Roswell, that's a bunch of baloney.
		And now, you're telling me that the government doesn't have anything, so I'm going to go out and tell them, yes, the government does have it.
		Some years ago, I was on a investigation on it.
		The FBI did an investigation on it because of the MJ-12 document from 88 or 89.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The FBI was after you.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Well, they did an investigation.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		They thought I disclosed those documents.
unidentified		Was this as a result of Phil Klass bringing up the fact that you had willfully disclosed government secrets and you had to be investigated for it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that what Phil said?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Phil said that and many other things.
		But I told him, listen, I'll make a deal.
		If you let me go to the Pentagon right now, right this second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You told who this?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		The FBI and some other Air Force officials.
		If you let me go into Pentagon right now, I can take you to where these documents and this information about the UFOs, about the extraterrestrial visitation of Earth is.
		You just let me go there.
		If you don't think it's there, then you don't have anything to hide.
		Let me go there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And how did they react?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course they said, no, we can't do that.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		And then they let me go.
unidentified		I mean, they just let they just.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold on.
		I'm not letting you go yet.
		Richard Dodie is my guest, along with Greg Bishop.
		And I don't know.
		I think we're learning all kinds of things.
		But is it the double or triple twist?
		I don't know.
unidentified		It don't come easy.
		You know it don't come easy.
		It don't come easy.
		You know it don't come easy.
		Don't you pay your dues if you want to see the blues.
		And you know it don't come easy.
		You don't have to shout or leave the vows.
		You can't even play them easy.
		You've got to love the past and all your sorrow.
		You tell us.
		You've got to love the past and all your sorrow.
		You know it don't come easy.
		You're the only way out.
		You know it don't come easy.
		To talk with Art Bell, form the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with ourselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And only on talk radio do you stumble into something like this.
		Greg Bishop and Richard Toby are my guests.
		Richard is a self-admitted disinformation agent, or certainly was.
		I had a call during the break, a very interesting call during the break, from none other than Ed Daines.
		And while he didn't want to go on the air, he affirmed that, oh, yes, those lies are told, and those lies have little nuggets of truth that are expanded upon and then twisted, as any really good lie is.
		And the government does this to protect the programs that they have ongoing.
		He said, what you're hearing is the truth.
		Just thought I'd let you know.
		Obviously fascinating stuff.
		My guests, Greg Bishop and Richard Dodie.
		Richard and Greg, both of you, welcome back.
unidentified		Thank you.
unidentified		Thanks, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Greg, I guess you had an opportunity to interview Richard, or how did you get on to Richard, as it were?
unidentified		I got in touch with him through Bill Moore, who's another of the main players in the story who we haven't really talked that much about yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you both have something to do with Bill Moore?
unidentified		Richard, I think, still communicates with him.
		I live in Los Angeles where Bill does, and I see him probably once every few weeks.
		He retired from ufology after making the announcement that he had become an asset to the Air Force Intelligence Service, and ufology kind of turned on him at that point.
		That was in Las Vegas at the MUFON Convention in 1989.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He admitted that he had become an asset to Air Force intelligence.
unidentified		Yes, it's an interesting story, too, because he was recruited as an insider in the UFO community who could tell the Air Force what people were thinking, what they were talking about, what they thought things were.
		You know, what are these lights?
		What do people think?
		Do they think they're aliens?
		Do they think they're some kind of airplane or what?
		We need to know these kind of things.
		And they recruited him by disinforming him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In what manner?
unidentified		The first thing they did was, and I think Richard knows about this, they gave him a document that referred to something called the Silver Sky Project.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that rings bells.
unidentified		Does it really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it does, actually.
unidentified		that involved some sort of multiple witness UFO sighting in southern New Mexico, actually around Roswell, in the 60s.
		They said, "Why don't you..." But obviously you can't tell anybody you're doing this.
		You will report on people, tell us what they're thinking.
		I don't believe he ever disinformed anybody personally.
		He says he hasn't, and I tend to believe him because I haven't found any evidence of it.
		But they gave him this document and said, here's your first bit of information that we're going to release to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you know it wasn't a Richard Doty handing it to him?
		A Richard Doty.
		I didn't say the Richard Doty.
unidentified		He didn't at the time.
		Because as it turned out, this document was kind of a test.
		He went and checked up on these names, these places, and none of the people existed.
		So he came back to his contact, which a lot of people know as Falcon.
		That's what Bill Moore and his partner began to refer to this guy.
		He was apparently from the Defense Intelligence Agency.
		He actually was the head of, as far as I know, the head of the operation against Benowitz.
		The orders came down from him.
		But Bill came back with this document and said, look here, these people don't exist.
		what's going on here and uh...
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		I was involved in this, yes.
		I was tasked with...
		He was recruited as an asset.
		Within the intelligence community, they call it a spy, a person that's working for you as an asset.
		And Bill came to New Mexico, and I was tasked with contacting Bill after he had a, I think he did a radio clip on a talk show channel.
unidentified		He was going around doing publicity for the Roswell incident, which is the book he wrote in 1790.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Anyways, I met Bill, and all my job was to just make contact with him, get some information, and tell him that I was a friend of the person in Washington, which we did.
		And then that was it as far as I went.
		But then I later became involved in this operation because Bill came back to me because he said, hey, I got some information here, and this information is bull.
		And he wanted me to check it.
		Well, the information that he'd gotten from Washington was, in fact, bull.
		But I didn't know that it was given to him in a disinformation operation until I contacted headquarters.
		And then I found out that, yeah, they were running him as an asset.
		They were feeding him, like Greg said, they were feeding him with this information.
		But Bill was pretty smart.
unidentified		Yeah, this was a test.
		He brought it back.
		And the person he gave it to, I thought it was, he told me it was you and this DIA man, but maybe it wasn't.
		Anyway, he said that as soon as he said this is a load of BS, none of these people exist, this DIA man said, good, you pass the test.
		What they wanted to do was find somebody who wouldn't immediately go start spouting this big discovery to a bunch of ufologists to check up on it first, be careful about what he said, be careful about what he did, and go about it as an investigator would to find out if something was true before they said anything about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My God, what a mess.
		A lot of people believe that the U.S. government is engaging in a slow-release campaign of information about UFOs and the presence of extraterrestrials on Earth.
		Do you believe that's true, Richard?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		In fact, during my briefing way back in 1979, that was made aware to us that the government had tried to in the early 50s.
		And one of the first movies where the government actually cooperated with the movie industry was The Day the Earth Stood Still.
		I think it was in 50, whatever, one or two, whatever.
		And then they cooperated, in fact, they had placed Air Force intelligence people with some knowledge as an aide or an advisor to some motion picture companies making movies about the subject.
		And they were trying to condition the public for a release.
		But unfortunately, I guess somewhere along the line, different administrations within the government decided that wasn't a wise idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They also didn't mean an actual implication that a real elected official is in charge of any of this.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
		It was way above my pay rate.
		I don't know that.
unidentified		They have a lot of people around them, and so that kind of shapes the policy, I think.
unidentified		The cabinet, the appointments for that administration, etc.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But at some point, you're saying, Richard, at least, they were preparing the public for the big story.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's what we were told in the briefing, that eventually that the and I can remember growing up, I was, let me say this, I was never interested in the subject of UFOs growing up.
		I had that, not the slightest interest.
		My brother, who I roomed with, he was the fanatic.
		He had these old true magazines.
		He would read everything that he could get his hands on about the subject.
		And I never had any interest in him.
		Right up to the time that I was briefed in 1979, I had no interest in the subject.
unidentified		Well, why you then?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		I don't know why.
		Well, there's some reasons why.
		I'm not going to go into details, but there's a couple reasons I found later.
		One that dealt with a couple relatives that were in the service.
		but I was probably the least informed about the subject at the time I was being briefed.
		And I had the same question that...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want to know more.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		why you there must be some When I got to Kirtland, I was assigned as a counterintelligence officer for the base because I went through some special training.
		And I had been briefed in a number of different programs in order to know.
		I had different levels of security clearances in order to know what was going on at Kirtland Air Force Base.
		And there was a huge number of classified projects going on at Kirtland.
		At Kirtland, the Air Force Weapons Laboratory at Sandia Laboratories, up at Los Alamos.
		And I had to know what these projects were in order to safeguard them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Richard, I have a question for you.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's a lot of big names in ufology.
		You've dropped a couple yourself, Linda Moulton, for example.
		My friend Whitley Streeber, oh gosh, the list would go on and on and on.
		It'd be a very long list.
		Richard, how many of these big-time ufologists, names we would know, so to speak, have been approached by people who were in your line of work?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		I don't know of any other but Linda.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Only the ones that you dealt with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What I'm asking is, how many do you think have been approached with disinformation?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		I think probably a good number of prominent ufologists were approached at one time or the other.
		And probably some of them took debate and some of them said, you know, screw you, walk away.
		And one of the things I want to say about Linda is that operation against Linda wasn't a total success because our secondary mission was to get her away from the subject.
		But that just had the opposite effect.
		Linda was such a good researcher herself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, that's Linda.
		She is a good researcher.
		And you're not going to take her away from the subject.
		You might delay her a little bit, as you apparently did, but you're not going to, uh-uh, she's like a dog with bones.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		And what she did was she turned around and developed her own sources in high-level places within a government.
		And one of them I eventually found out, but all during my contacts with Linda, I would give her information and she would come back to me and she'd say, Rick, this is baloney.
		And I'd look at her like, wait a minute, you're not supposed to say that.
		And then I'd go back and do some checking and find out that, hey, she had some kind of verification someplace.
		We got a leak here in a system.
		And I found out some years later that she had some very, very high-level sources herself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What I am concerned about, though, is ufology is having a difficult enough time, as it is, keeping stories straight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if the government is out there intentionally twisting them and they've approached more high-level people in ufology than not, then you have to worry about the general credibility of a lot of the stories that you're told.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's why the government's doing it, to lead the people astray.
		I mean, that's one reason, and that's why I don't support it anymore.
		I'm absolutely, you know, it upset me what happened to Paul.
		I mean, I went and talked to Paul about it, trying to convince him against my commander's orders.
		He's telling me, hey, he doesn't have a clearance.
		You can't go Tell him it didn't happen.
		But he did anyways because I was concerned about Paul.
		And I realized years later, it wasn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were concerned about his mental condition.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you had good cause to be.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And I'm sure there's a lot of you following.
		And I hear them on your show.
		I listen to yours and George's show.
		I hear people that are probably legitimate.
		They have a lot of good information.
		And then they all of a sudden bring up some information that is blowny that I heard that was being spread.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was just about to ask in the early 80s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are there a lot of times when I'll have a guest on and they'll say something and you'll say, I know where that came from.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
unidentified		Many, many, many, many times.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		And I hear also information from some of your guests that was and probably still is highly, highly classified, especially some of these reverse engineering operations that are the antimatter ones that started back in the 70s and 80s that I was involved with trying to protect.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		And some of these other high-tech operations that I hear on your show that I'm saying, wow, this stuff is still classified, I thought, but these people know about it.
unidentified		Do you think that's dangerous?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		I think some of it is, but not as much as during the Cold War here.
		We didn't want the Soviets to hear and know about some of our operations.
		And so we had a two-front operation going.
		We had to protect, we had to disinform the ufologists and the people that had some of this information.
		And then we also had to disinform the Soviets.
		That's why we had, it wasn't just me doing this.
		There were hundreds of, hundreds of agents involved in this.
unidentified		Some of the Soviets pretended to be ufologists and tried to vacuum up information that way as well.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		We ran an operation in Europe against the Soviets who was trying to, there was a number of Soviets who were trying to portray themselves as UFO experts, and they were KGB, but they were trying to get into the UFO community.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why wouldn't you have been best friends with Phil Klass?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why wouldn't Phil Klass have just served to, you know, you could have fed him all kinds of things, I would think.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Because Phil Kalas, in the time period that I was involved in the disinformation or the counterintelligence arena, I didn't know Phil Kalas.
		I didn't meet him until afterwards.
		And then Phil Klass started spreading all these lies about me, saying I'd gotten trouble in Europe, I was court-martialed, all these things with absolutely no credibility.
		But what I found later was that he was doing this at the direction of some government people trying to discredit me because I was going to go forth.
		But I decided not to.
		Because you've never heard me on a talk show.
		You haven't heard me on a lecture circuit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've never heard you anywhere.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Until now.
		I've kept my mouth shut.
		I've stayed quiet.
		Why?
		Because I'm satisfied with the truth.
		I know the truth.
		I don't have to sit here and portray and tell everybody in the world what the truth is because I know the truth.
		I know what the truth was when I got out.
		Now, I don't know what's happened since.
		I haven't been up to date.
		I haven't been updated other than with some sources that are still within the government.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, bluntly stated what was the truth when you got out.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Roswell happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Roswell was real.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		It was real.
		We had an alien that was in captivity up until 1951.
		He was kept at Kirtland and he was kept at Los Alamos.
		He died in the latter part of 1951.
		Linda Howell interviewed that alien handling person.
		It was an Air Force officer.
unidentified		Yes, she mentioned it in her book.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You saw the film, so you saw the films.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That means you saw the alien.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		I saw the alien.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you would describe this alien in what way?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		He was about three foot, eight inches tall.
		He had the large eyes.
		He's a typical gray-looking one that you see now.
		They're portraying.
		He didn't have a thumb and four fingers.
		He actually was portrayed, almost depicted perfectly on that program back in, I think, in 1988, Cover-Up Live, yeah.
		In fact, his actual diagram was provided to a source through Warrior Patterson.
		I mean, that was right there on the television.
		And he died in 1951.
unidentified		Well, that whole show was a whole disinformation operation.
		Because at the end, I can't, Robert Collins or somebody there, one of the other agents that was in shadow there with the voice disguise said that the aliens like Tibetan music and strawberry ice cream.
		And at that point, everybody shut down and said this is really good.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		You know, the truth about that is that's exactly what was written.
		That was exactly what was written in the Red Book is our history of the extraterrestrial visitation.
		That's true.
		That's not a lie.
		That's true.
		I know it turned people off, but exactly that's true.
unidentified		You give people the truth, and that turns them off because it's just so unbelievable.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		But that worked as disinformation because it turned people off.
		But that's the truth.
		That alien liked ice cream.
		He liked strawberry ice cream.
unidentified		They didn't have teeth.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		They couldn't chew.
		Everything they took in had to be a fluid.
		They didn't have teeth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Listen, hold it right there.
		I wouldn't let you go for all the world.
		Richard, can you hang in there?
		And you too, Greg?
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
		Everybody hold on.
		You don't get ones like this.
		We're in the middle of the night.
		I'm on someone.
		This, of course, is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		The mountains high and the valley's so deep Can't get across to the other side Don't you give up and don't you cry Don't you give up and don't you cry Who's the other time?
		The End you you
		Let's do it for real.
		Wanna take a ride?
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
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		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And a pot of gold it is, too.
		It may be fool's gold, I don't know, but Greg Bishop and Richard Doty are here saying some absolutely incredible things.
		Nothing short of incredible that a very great deal of what you hear in ufology could be fed to the ufologists directly from the U.S. governments.
		That's what Richard Doty did.
		And that's what may be going on right now.
		Rick, all the way down in Florida, would like me to ask the why question.
		He says, the why question is, why is the government still holding back all this alien UFO info?
		Either one of you want to try to answer that?
unidentified		Well, I'm going to say that I think that they know what's going on, and they probably don't quite know what to do with it.
unidentified		What do you think, Rick?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, a lot of the information is to protect technology.
		There's some things that we got from them, from our visitors that we're trying to protect, and that has to be safeguarded.
		And I agree with that.
		But I don't agree that just the mere fact that we were visited should be held up.
		So that Rick and Florida agree that some of that should be released.
		in that area of richard how do you get a little pregnant Well, if they would have done, if the government would have done what they should have done back in the 50s by the slow release of the information and conditioning the public, we wouldn't have that problem today.
		But it didn't do that.
unidentified		Why not?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I wasn't around back then, and I just know that I guess the governing body of this information decided that they kept putting it off.
		And at some point they kept lying, kept saying they didn't have it, they didn't have it, we don't have it.
		Yes, we do.
		No, no, loud, we don't have it.
unidentified		You know, there's people in power, and they like to stay in power, and part of that power is knowing something nobody else knows.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		That's a good point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you were the one promoting exactly that policy of we have it, we don't have it, it's true, it's trash, it's baloney, or then it's real.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, kind of.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		You're right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		Exactly.
		I was doing that.
		Absolutely.
		That was our job.
		I mean, there were, like I said, hundreds of agents that spanned out across the United States, and that's what our job was.
unidentified		But it wasn't to disinform people on UFOs because of the aliens.
unidentified		In your case, apparently it was because you were protecting things that were going on projects at Kirtland at the time.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Our job had nothing to do.
		We never were told, hey, now we don't want the public to know about UFOs or body aliens.
		That never surfaced.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we were told.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You did say you were shown a film, though, of what actually happened at Roswell and had to sign a form that, you know, sign your life away.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Well, it just wasn't Roswell.
		It was our history, United States history of involvement with the ETB.
		And let me tell you something.
		There was one of your guests one time some years ago, I don't know exactly how long ago I was listening to it, that got it right.
		If you look at government, which most of our, which are still classified, most of the government documents, they don't refer to this as UFOs or some of the other things that you're reading today.
		The official government terminology was ETV, extraterrestrial visitation.
		Linda Howell got it right, and it was one other guest on your show a couple years ago that got it right.
unidentified		If people go in and look for documents under ETV, they might get something, or are they will still be classified?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		You might want to.
		I'm sure there's going to be a million people listening to the show.
		If you go out there and try to get something in ETV, it was referred to as extraterrestrial visitation.
		It wasn't referred to UFOs.
		We knew what they were.
		We knew who they were.
		And the government wouldn't put UFOs down unless they were describing something that was, in fact, an unidentified flying object.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I still don't understand how they could have shown you Roswell and the true history of ufology and what the government knew and had you sign all this and even today that you could be sitting here telling us I tried to explain that to you.
unidentified		Well, you did.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		The government is saying now that doesn't exist, that is baloney.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Even though I signed something, so what are they going to come back and try to prosecute me for telling something that they're saying is baloney?
unidentified		Make them deny it.
unidentified		It's the whole truth.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		So they're not going to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe they wouldn't do that.
		Perhaps they would reach out and touch you in some other fashion.
		Has that occurred to you?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		They could.
		Yeah, you're right.
		It could very well do that.
		But I'm not scared of that anymore.
		I used to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How's your heart?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		My heart's fine.
unidentified		So many other people have come out and done the same thing before even Richard did.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I mean, I could name, I know, there's a number of other people who did this.
		I mean, that said ten times more than me.
		In fact, that know ten times more than me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But since you know so much, Richard, at least tell us what we really should know about this alien presence.
		Is it multiple species that are here?
		What are the important things for the American people to know about the truth behind all this?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I can tell you what I know.
		what I officially know.
		Okay, I'm not going to go into trying to give you a theory.
		We were visited, an airline craft crashed in 1947 near Roswell.
		We recovered one alien.
		We obtained a great wealth of information from that alien who was with us until 1951.
		In 1964, there was a landing at Holloman.
		It actually wasn't a holloman, it was at White Sands.
		The disinformation was that it was going to be a Holloman, but it actually happened at White Sand.
		We returned the alien bodies to these extraterrestrial visitors.
		Then we met with them, and then we had another visitation some years later.
		We formed some kind of a pact, and I don't know the exact details of that because I wasn't in the know.
		But we had a pact with them that they could come back and they could visit Earth and they could experiment and we would let them do that.
		And the reason that I was told that we did this was we couldn't stop them in the first place.
		I mean, if they come all this distance in a short period of time, they had technology that we couldn't understand.
		We were afraid of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But still, you're telling me that you believe that you're charging our government made a deal with aliens to come down and occasionally grab specimens and slice and dice as they will.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		No, I didn't say that.
		No, I don't know anything about them providing any type of our government providing permission or giving permission to any visitors, extraterrestrial visitors, to do that.
		No, no, nothing like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that's what goes on, though.
		People are abducted.
		People are inevitably in some way sexually accosted or probed or shot or given a shot or given what, God knows what.
		I mean, those things are what are reported, Richard.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Reported.
		Now, I tell you one thing.
		In my eight years or something in OSI, in that particular program with clearances, I never read one bit of information about abductions, not one, in an official government document.
		Now, I heard a lot from other people.
		I'm not a believer.
		i mean i'm not a strong believer that the aliens are abducting us i'm not a believer you did say though that our government came to an agreement with them I don't know what that means.
unidentified		I think what he said was experiments, and that's what experiments.
unidentified		Yeah, like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what set me off.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		I don't mean with human beings because I'd never read the document.
		All I read was that the United States government had an agreement with the extraterrestrial visitors that we would allow them to visit Earth and research or whatever.
		I can't remember the exact wording.
		That's it.
unidentified		That's all I read.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		I didn't know anything else about it.
unidentified		Sorry.
		Was that one of the things you told to Paul Benowitz?
		Because he was under the impression, after talking to you and other people in OSI, that we had exchanged abduction rights for technology.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		No, not abductions.
		I never had anything to do with abductions except for two cases.
		And one of the cases was an absolute hoax.
		The other one was inconclusive.
		But I never had anything to do with that.
		I was never briefed in any of it.
		Maybe it did happen, and maybe we did know about it, but I wasn't briefed into it.
		I had no knowledge of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, so we've been craft has crashed.
		We had possession of an alien being.
		Do you know anything at all about what we learned or what came of it?
		In other words, it's kind of back to the question of what should the American public know that we know?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		They call him Ebens.
		The Eben we had in captivity.
		And I say captivity because that's actually the way it was phrased in a document, captivity.
		He wasn't allowed to leave.
		He provided us with a book.
		It was referred to as a yellow book.
		And in this book, which wasn't actually a book, it was kind of a transparent piece of slab that when you looked at it and studied it, English wording, but ironic because if you knew Russian, if you were looking at it, then Russian words would come out of it.
		And I don't understand it, but in there it gave the full history of what they knew about the universe and about our solar system and about other life, intelligence life around the universe.
		And they provided us with information about others, other creatures, other aliens who had visited Earth or in the past.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that's a gigantic general piece of information you just gave me.
		Do you know any of the details of that?
		I mean, to know what it's all about is what it's all about.
		I mean, those are almost the godlike questions.
		Do you know any of the answers?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't.
		All I know is what I had access to the yellow book for about five minutes, and in five minutes I couldn't get much information out of it.
		But there's been others who have been on your program and who have written books about it, who were right on the money.
		And in fact, there's one person, I don't recall their name.
		They live, I think, in New Hampshire, Vermont or something, who was a former intelligence officer who claimed to have had access.
		And he gave a lecture somewhere some years ago about it.
		And he was right on the money as far as I know.
		But there's others out there that know a heck of a lot more about it than I do.
		What I didn't know and what somebody told me was about the different races of aliens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what do you know about that?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Well, I didn't know anything then.
		In fact, the person who told me was Linda Howell.
		She got that information from a high-level source within the CIA.
		And I verified it with some other people.
		I didn't even know it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, you are so full of information, Richard.
		I've got to ask this.
		I guess I did earlier, but I've got to ask again, Richard, you were a disinformation specialist.
		How in God's name am I supposed to understand I'm hearing the truth from you now?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't.
		I would have no reason whatsoever.
		If I wanted to disinform you, Arnold, what I would do was try to convince you that the extraterrestrial visitation was baloney, that everything that you ever heard was wrong.
		I can't do that because it's not true.
		I wouldn't do it.
		I have no reason now after all these years to do it.
		I wasn't proud of what I did.
		I mean, I did a job.
		I'm not proud of what I did then.
		I really am not.
		I mean, I'm somewhat embarrassed at times about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But maybe you're proud of what you're doing now.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm truthful now.
		I'm for it with Witna.
		I mean, I'm open now, more so than I ever was in the past.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think, Greg?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Should he be believed now?
unidentified		You know what?
		When they tell you these facts or stories or whatever they are, you have to go and check other places, talk to other people, see who repeats these stories, how long the stories hold up.
		That's how you get through disinformation.
		You can't just listen to it and then accept it and then go off with it.
		You have to sit with it for many years sometimes to figure out something's true or not.
		A lot of the things that Rick is saying have been verified by other people.
		Now, you and I and probably most of the people listening have never seen an alien or never seen this book or the crystal that they talked about that people would look into, any of this stuff.
		So you have to suspend your disbelief up as far to the edge as you want to and think of it probably more as a mental exercise before it's proven unequivocally to you, like it has been to Whitley Striber and maybe Bob Dean and other researchers like that.
		It's a tricky thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'll say the whole thing is tricky.
unidentified		If you want a yes or no answer, it just doesn't work usually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A couple of calls.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with the group here.
unidentified		Hi to everybody.
		Hello.
		I wanted to say I'm not debunking Roswell, but I wanted to talk to you about the Fox show, that special that they did, whatever it was, about 10 years ago or so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's a good subject, sure.
unidentified		Okay, this is a real interesting observation, and it actually wasn't made by me.
		I have pretty poor eyesight, but it was made by a friend of mine, and then I watched it on tape and looked more carefully.
		Nobody, I don't think, has ever brought this up, and I'm real curious what you guys have to say about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're talking about the autopsy, right?
unidentified		Right, the alien autopsy.
		Right, right.
		Okay, I'm a big buff of old telephones.
		This sounds strange, but listen to this.
		This is very interesting.
		In that show, if you watch it, if any of you still have a tape or recording of it anywhere, watch that show, Art.
		You probably know this about old phones and things like that being into ham radio.
		At that time, in 1947, they did not have coiled cords for the hand clothes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I've been aware of this argument now for a long, long time.
		Richard, do you have anything you want to say about the alien autopsy?
		Do you have any knowledge of that algorithm?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		I think it was a hoax.
		I didn't believe it.
		You think it was a hoax?
		I don't know anything firsthand, though.
unidentified		Why do you think it was a hoax?
unidentified		And who do you think put that film out or released it?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I don't know.
		I watched that a number of times.
		In fact, I've watched it with a couple people who are still within the government, or at least then was still in the government of 70, whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so your information about it is not first-hand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're just like the rest of us, unsure about that question, right?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Right.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		I don't have any first-hand knowledge.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, good enough.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with a group.
		Hello.
unidentified		Thank you, Mr. Bill.
unidentified		I appreciate the opportunity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, where are you?
unidentified		I'm sorry, I'm Scott, Orange County, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Greg and Richard are listening.
unidentified		Okay, Richard, you know, I admire Mr. Bill and this radio format because he speaks the truth, okay?
		You, sir, are on the other side of the coin.
		You are a liar and a thief.
		You've stolen Paul's life and ruined it.
		You are a mindless, soulless drone.
		And as long as the government keeps employing these mindless, soulless drones, we'll continue to have these conspiracies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was mindless, soulless drone, right?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		And yeah, I got it all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mindless, soulless drone.
unidentified		Okay, and what I did all right, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's hold it there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mindless, soulless drone is, I think, something you might want to respond to.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Well, I no longer work for the government.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you are no longer a mindless soulless.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm no longer a mindless.
		Maybe I was during that time, and maybe I was.
		You know, I probably could be considered that then.
		But, you know, I'm no longer with the government now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How about a nice big general question?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much damage do you think that official disinformation put out by people like you at that time has done to ufology?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Probably it did it did some harm, yeah.
		Absolutely.
		And not so much of what I did, but there was some others.
		You're talking about small-level operations that I did.
		Two that I told you about, two others that have never been disclosed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you like to disclose?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		One of them was a total failure.
		I mean, total failure.
		And the other one, no one's ever written about it.
		And the group or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which one would that be?
unidentified		Pardon?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which one would that be?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		I'm not going to tell you.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		I'm not going to go into detail about it because I would be open to Pandora's box.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, hey, we specialize in those kinds of boxes here.
		Perhaps you could.
		We're coming up on a break, so perhaps what you could do is sort of figure out if there's a way you could talk about it without naming specific names or something, some way of giving us an idea what was done.
		All right, good.
		I'm Mark Bell.
unidentified		A very old friend came by today Cause he was telling everyone in town After all that he gets found And Marie's the name of the place explained He taught and taught you And I heard him say That she had the
		longest, blackest hair The prettiest green eyes anywhere And Marie's the name of his latest friend Though I smiled and tears inside for the burning I wished him love again when he said goodbye That he was gone but still his words kept returning Dreams of the
		asperry We were born again The birds are dying leaves, turning blue But the white bird just sits in her cage, rolling gold
		The white bird must fly, or she will die The white bird must fly, or she will die The sun sets come, the sun sets go, the clouds flow by, the earth turns slow, the younger times do always grow.
		And she must fly, she must fly, she must fly.
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is Area Code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from East of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From West of the Rockies, call ART at 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country spread access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's just not every morning that you walk into a hornet's nest like this.
		Good morning, everybody.
		I'm Mark Bell, and this, well, how could you be listening and not know, is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Coast to Coast AM.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, Richard Odie and Greg Bishop, and I've got a question from Philip in Hampton, Virginia, who asks, what was the crystal that he mentioned?
		Is it something in some way connected with Dan Burrish?
		And do you know anything about the Dan Burrish controversy at all, Richard?
		Or either one of you, really?
unidentified		No, don't know about it.
		I've heard that name.
		The crystal I knew was something that was presented on that UFO cover-up live as something that aliens had that they had shown to people in the Air Force, whoever was keeping this alien there.
		And if you looked in it, you could see scenes from the past or the future of Earth's history.
		That's all they said about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's quite a lot.
		All right, gentlemen, here come some more inquiries.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Greg Bishop and Richard Doty.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi, Art.
		Hi.
		Hi, Richard and Greg.
		Hello.
		Thanks for taking my call, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		This is William from Portland.
		Richard, I have a couple of questions, please, real quick.
		Since you have been privy to the Inside Track, did you learn what the aliens' agenda might be, and are we their genetic experiment?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		No, I didn't know what their agenda was, and I have no information regarding whether we're studying our genetic makeup.
unidentified		I was just wondering what you thought of Dr. Greer and the disclosure project.
unidentified		Do you think he's got any chance of success of bringing this out with the hearings and the things he's done?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's a good question.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Excellent question.
		Absolutely.
		I hope and pray.
		I've spoken to a couple of representatives from Pennsylvania, actually, Senator Specter a little while back about it because he's a former OSI agent.
		And he was noncommittal, but he thought that something should push it forth.
		I agree that I support Dr. Greger's efforts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Doug Group.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		Thanks for taking my call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Pennsylvania, but I'm listening on WBEL.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, in Delaware.
unidentified		Who I'd like to thank for carrying you on the weekend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, thank you.
unidentified		I'm very grateful.
		I have a question for Richard.
		I'd like you, if you can, to confirm or deny something I had heard from a former coast-to-coast guest.
		I don't remember whether he was on with Art or George, and I don't remember his name, but somebody talking about the UFO phenomenon once said that he had received information that John F. Kennedy, President John F. Kennedy, was assassinated because he was going to tell the public the truth about the E.T. Is that true or not?
		Okay, thank you.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		I didn't get that first part.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was President John F. Kennedy assassinated because of what he was going to tell the American public?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Well, I heard that story, but I have no first-hand knowledge about it.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't know anything about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I wouldn't expect you to.
		Had you actually come up with that answer, I would have immediately pounced upon you.
		So, Greg?
unidentified		Yeah, there was a researcher called, I think it was Michael Karlinski uncovered this, and then Ken Thomas published this in Steam Shovel Press about some sort of pillow talk between JFK and Marilyn Monroe about him seeing aliens at Area 51 or somewhere out in the southwest, and that's the reason, one, JFK was assassinated, and two, Marilyn Monroe appeared to be suicided, as it's the term used in the business.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Suicide.
unidentified		Nobody's been able to back that up.
unidentified		That's just one conspiracy rumor that's come out in the last 10 years.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		I heard that.
		Ironic, a little sidelight here.
		I was stationed in Germany, and one of our things we did over there was counter-espionage, and we were debriefing a former KGB agent, and one of the questions that was presented to him was about John F. Kennedy, and he said, that's what he said.
		He said, well, you guys killed him because he was going to talk about the UFOs.
		And this came from a KGB agent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I'd have told Marilyn about UFOs.
		Yeah, baby.
		We got them.
		We got them.
unidentified		You want to see one?
unidentified		He probably would have, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, geez.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies are on the air.
unidentified		Hi, good evening, Art.
unidentified		Thanks for taking my call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is quite an evening, yes.
unidentified		Yes, it is a Keystone, if it's believable.
		You know, I'm not really too knowledgeable in this area, but I've been paying real close attention.
		And Richard, you know, Art specifically asked you about the film of Roswell, and you specifically answered that you saw Roswell, and then you backslid on that.
		And you've done that a couple of times.
		So I'm sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In what way did he backslide?
unidentified		Well, he said, no, he didn't really see Roswell.
unidentified		He saw information and things that were happening with regard on photographs of film.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, fine.
		Let's pin him down.
		How about it, Richard?
		You saw Roswell or you didn't see Roswell?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		This is what I was trying to tell you.
		The film was a briefing film.
		It contained a number of items pertaining to ETV, extraterrestrial visitation.
		It showed a clip of the Roswell recovery, and the narrator was saying that this was from Roswell, New Mexico, 1947, the recovery operation.
		So I didn't see the whole entire film.
		I saw that clip on this briefing film.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that was enough.
		In other words, you saw one of these creatures well enough to describe it.
		It was a little while ago, right?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
		Well, that was the second.
		I mean, that part, I mean, it showed the recovery, and then it showed this creature at, well, I don't know where it was, either some hidden facility in New Mexico or in Los Alamos, because he was at both locations.
		But it showed this creature, it filmed this creature saying this is one that got out of the craft that lived.
		So that was part of this briefing film.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		You're on the air with the gathered group.
		Hello, and good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, gentlemen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
		You're going to have to speak up real loud.
		You're not proud.
unidentified		Good morning, gentlemen.
unidentified		Sorry, I cut cancer in the throat, so I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry to hear that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's your first name?
unidentified		My name is Mark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what question do you have, Mark?
unidentified		It's not really a question.
		I have been seeing UFOs all my life.
		And I joined the Navy, and I actually seen one 134 feet away from my battleship.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but we're not taking UFOs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How does this relate to these UFOs?
unidentified		because my commanding officer worked out at Oswell, and he says that he can confirm there was UFOs.
		But my question to you, what is the color of UFOs?
		What color was they?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What color were they?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		I didn't catch all that.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Something about the color of UFOs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
unidentified		I think he was trying to figure out what color the aliens were because his commanding officer in the Navy.
unidentified		Oh, were they all?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he was talking about the craft.
		I don't know why.
		It was like it was a test or something.
		He was testing you, Richard.
		Oh, okay.
		See if you had knowledge of what color these things were.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		I can't.
		I don't know.
		I couldn't understand his question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What color were the universities?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		You mean the alien craft?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Oh, the metallic shape, but they were silvery-colored.
		The ones that I saw.
		They actually showed one at the end of the briefing tape, and that's the one that was involved in the Cash Landrum thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, this is of immense interest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If they showed it and it was real, then what did it look like?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Well, the outside of it looked, it wasn't a saucer shape, it was more like a bat-wing shape.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		It had a cutout in the back where apparently the engine was, and it was kind of bat-winged shaped, and it had a protrusion on top with a light, and it was a silvery, grayish-colored craft.
unidentified		This was the one at Roswell you're talking about.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Cash Landrum ship was something else, and when I talked to you, you said you thought that was, and what a lot of people thought was, was a test craft, a nuclear-powered test craft that somehow went off course.
unidentified		You know about this case, right, aren't you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Yes.
		And, you know, I want to add for you, Greg, that you do have a book which is called Project Beta.
		And Project Beta is the story of what happened to Paul Benowitz.
unidentified		Yes.
		In fact, most of the things we've been talking about tonight, except for a few exclusives from Richard here, are in the book.
		Probably about 90% of what we've been talking about are things that Richard told me when we had our talks when I was writing the book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've got a feeling we heard quite a few new things this morning.
unidentified		At least a couple.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, at least a couple.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with the group.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, hey, Do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm Tom from New York.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Tom.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A question?
unidentified		Well, kind of not a question, more of a comment.
		I think the problem is that with people like Greg and anyone else who is searching for something in life, sometimes the obvious is just the obvious, whether there be aliens or not aliens, whether it be technology or whatever it's coming from.
		And I think that when you so badly want to believe something, that sometimes you want to believe disinformation or believe the obvious facts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
unidentified		And I think that's the problem sometimes.
unidentified		Whether there be aliens or not, it's just you have to be open-minded and be willing to accept and be able to tell the truth from not the truth.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		That's why disinformation works.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It does work, doesn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very well.
unidentified		Yeah, well, that's the point I was trying to make in the book, and people have said, you know, well, does this mean that the UFOs are completely a product of everything we know is a completely product of the government?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here's one problem.
unidentified		Never said any such thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but here's the problem, Greg.
		And Richard, too, for that matter.
		If you're in a courtroom and you're being accused of something by somebody and your lawyer is really good and proves that one of the witnesses against you is a damn liar, then even though what they lied about has nothing to do with necessarily what you've done or accused of, even if it's true, it's discarded by the jury.
		Once a liar, never trust it again, ever.
unidentified		Exactly.
unidentified		But this is not a court, and disinformation works in ways that are not suited for our system of justice.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		You know, let me say something about this.
		One of the things we did in a disinformation area was in Commune Espionage, where we recruited a person, and we sent that person in to meet a Soviet agent, and we controlled him, and we fed him disinformation.
		We fed our guy phony information to give to the Soviets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the greatest disinformation.
		That's right.
		That's right.
		But when it involves people like Linda Moulton Howe and I guess Paul Benowitz and a lot of other people that have been fed, American citizens that have been fed this disinformation.
		It doesn't go down as well.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I agree with you 100%.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		I wasn't proud, like I said, I wasn't proud of doing it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the other hand, everybody understands the need for national security, and it may be that the need is just as great here as it is in giving the Soviet Union disinformation.
		I'm just telling you how things go down, PR-wise.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Greg Bishop, Richard Dodie.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And Art Bell.
unidentified		Hi, my name is Tom.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Tom.
unidentified		I live in Northwest New Jersey.
		And in 1981, I did hold a top-secret clearance.
		And I just wanted to tell you that some of the things that he is saying is true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, you're not the first person to call me either publicly here or privately and say what you're hearing is true.
unidentified		Yes, I just want to let you know that some of the things that he is saying is true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		All right.
		As I mentioned, Ed Dames called, Richard, said the same thing.
unidentified		Yeah, I know it.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That these things are done, these lies are dispensed, and it's in the name of real, honest to God, national security projects.
unidentified		Yeah, well, I pointed this out in the book that there were assets in Russia who were sending this information back.
		And if they found out that somebody over here was getting that information and using it on these satellites through Paul Denowitz or anybody else, these people would have been imprisoned or killed or whatever.
		And they figured, I think Richard can comment on this, that they figured that the one person getting paranoid and going off the deep end was worth 10 or 12 or 15 or however many agents they had over in Russia doing this, apart from the fact that just the basic information.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		And another thing that we as an open society have to be very careful of is what people does with the information.
		If we allow somebody to have information that is of a sensitive nature, there's no protection, or there's no guarantee that they're not going to give that to the Soviets or the East Germans or the Chinese.
		So we have to be careful, and that's the main basis for the counterintelligence, is protect our secrets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm a lot of curiosity, Richard.
		You've told us a lot about what the U.S. government knows.
		What do you know about what the Russians or the Chinese or the Brits or anybody else knows that we don't?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		I know officially that the Soviet Union had a very, very extensive program in investigating UFO sightings within their borders, and also an intelligence operation targeting certain people in the United States to obtain information that we had.
		One of the interesting points, we ran counter-espionage operations in Europe.
		We sent our spies in and let them think, the Soviets think these guys were theirs, but actually they were ours.
		Almost every one of our spies would come back and say, hey, this guy wants to know about what I know about UFOs or what we have about UFOs.
		I mean, they would target our people and ask questions, and that was something that showed us they still had a lot of interest.
		And this was in the 80s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Hi there.
		Welcome to the Rockies.
		We're going to squeeze you in with Greg Bishop and Richard Dodie.
unidentified		Hi.
		All righty.
		My name's Michael.
		I'm in Seattle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Michael.
unidentified		And I'd like to ask about Philip Corso and what he might know, a verification of what he wrote about, and or was there any information more he can add to that?
unidentified		Do you know him or was he involved in any of his work or anybody that he knew was involved in his work?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Excellent question.
		I interviewed Phil Corso many times.
		Richard, do you know anything about Philip?
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		I had a very interesting chat with Phil on two occasions, one in Los Alamos, New Mexico, and one in Washington, D.C., where we spoke quite openly, and he filled me in a lot of things that I never knew, because, of course, he was around in the early days.
		And he verified a lot of things personally between him and I that I'm saying tonight about Roswell.
		Now, I didn't know about the crates and some of these things that he knew about, but again, I wasn't around that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So Phil Corso was not in your line of work.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
		He was not in my line of work.
		Nope.
unidentified		It's funny.
unidentified		I've always wondered about Phil.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, so have I, but he told an extremely detailed, very convincing story.
unidentified		And he seemed very sincere.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		But then again, would have to be good at what they do.
		So it's a question that I guess had to be asked.
		But you're saying, Richard, that he was a real McCoy.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he was a real McCoy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		We're about to have to end this program.
		So I need to ask you if there's anything else that you've been holding back.
		I mean, there was that operation, for example, you were going to tell us a lot about that.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		I was going to tell you that.
		Well, basically, one of the operations that was successful involved airlines in Nevada that flew people to a certain location from one place to another.
		I know, it was an operation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		And the second one was the Cash Landrum, which is a very good question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, wait a minute.
		I know about that airline operation.
		Oh, you do?
		Yes, I do.
		But I don't know what you did with regard to them.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not going to go into details on this.
		It's kind of a long dragon.
		I couldn't do it within a minute.
		But anyways, you know about it because somebody else mentioned it on one of your programs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Richard Doty, thank you very, very much for being with us tonight.
		It was a shock and a surprise brought to me by Greg Bishop.
		Greg, thank you.
		And your book is on sale where?
unidentified		At Amazon.com and at just about any bookstore you'd care to go to.
unidentified		Project Beta is a title.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Project Beta.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gentlemen, thank you and good night.
richard doty ▲ ● ▼		Good night, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Later.
		All right.
		This has been some weekend, hasn't it?
		Crystal's got the right words.
		Good night, all.
unidentified		Good night in the desert, shooting stars across the sky.
		This magical journey will take us on a ride.
		Filled with the longing, searching for the truth.

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