Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool

All Episodes

Previous Next

Dec. 12, 2004 - Art Bell

02:52:49

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - James McCanney - Comets & Electrical Energy

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Time	Text
	So, I'm going to play a little bit of the song.
	So, I'm going to play a little bit of the song.
	From the high desert and the great American Southwest.
	And it is great I bid you all good evening.
	I'm Art Bell and this is that program known as Coast to Coast AM.
	Slamming across all the time zones out there of the entire world, one way or the other.
	Honored and privileged to be able to carry you through the weekend.
	And this hour will be carried by Whitley Streber and Dr. Roger Lear.
	and they're here to uh...
	to talk about a strange little piece in the strange trip
	when it reached doctor lear peace allegedly
	perhaps from the nineteen forty seven crash of the whole story is quite
	remarkable and so if you'll just stay right there will get right to it
	we do these guys are a couple of old that's uh... in every way
	Dr. Roger Lear, the Aliens and the Scalpel, and so many more.
	Whitley Strieber, Communion, of course, Global Superstorm, and so many more.
	Both real vets at all of this.
	Gentlemen, welcome.
	Good to be with you.
	That's great.
	Both of you, just boom, boom, like that.
	Get right out of the way.
	This story that we're about to hear apparently is in reference to a piece that Dr. Roger Lear received, purportedly being of a crash in New Mexico, possibly 1947 Roswell.
	Where did this come from, Dr. Lear?
	Well, Art, this piece was given to me on loan originally by a friend of mine who knew that I was interested in the UFO field.
	And he, in many ways, was an ingenious individual.
	He was in the business of R&Ding engines for all the major automobile companies and aircraft companies, and he had quite a physical plant.
	And the talent that he had, he was a bit of a metallurgist himself in order to do the job.
	Okay, where did he say the piece came from?
	Well, he told me that he acquired the piece as collateral for a loan that he'd given an individual from a friend of his.
	All right.
	And it was his friend who told him that he got it from a New Mexico crash site.
	Now, we cannot pin this down to know that it's Roswell or some other crash site.
	There's certainly three possibilities, as far as we know.
	Now, unfortunately, his friend, before Jim had a chance to collect on the loan, was killed in Mexico in a motorcycle accident.
	There's apparently a number of deaths connected with this case.
	Jim himself has passed on.
	One of the other principals in this matter, Dr. Bill Mallow, has died.
	Dr. Mallow, after being given a clean bill of health at a physical a few weeks later, ended up with two different forms of leukemia.
	The first time the oncologists have ever seen this in a single individual.
	And what was worse about this is that the treatments were contraindicated treatments.
	The two treatments fought each other.
	So Bill had to be treated for one form of leukemia on one day, and another form on another day, and finally succumbed.
	So, death has followed this piece sort of all around.
	Indeed.
	And not only death, but there's a little misfortune involved with it also, because the first scientist who did a major portion of the work on this piece, Dr. Russell Bernard Clark, I was with the University of California, San Diego, and was present at a press conference that we gave at the Roswell anniversary with about 300 members of the press and TV there.
	Unfortunately, the word didn't get out too well because it happened to be the same day the Mars lander landed on Mars.
	We got a back seat.
	But unfortunately, Dr. Vernon Clark went back to California to his job after the press conference.
	Within a few weeks, he had no job because they had pulled the funding from the entire department, which is the Department of Environmental Science.
	He was out of a job, had no money, couldn't seem to find another job, wound up in a severe divorce.
	He lost a tremendous amount of weight and has never been seen or heard from since.
	So death and misfortune follow this.
	How are you feeling, Doctor?
	I feel my usual self.
	That's good.
	But you've been sort of the driving force behind trying to get this tested and in some manner identified.
	The early tests that were done on it came back anomalous, correct?
	Yes, very anomalous.
	In what way?
	Well, it showed the major anomaly.
	The piece is 99.9% silicon.
	And if someone has a copy of the first or the new second edition of the Aliens in a Scalpel, there is a pie photograph on the back of the book where the scientific material is.
	And normal silicon, one of the isotopes, which is Si-28, is 92%.
	S-I-30 is around 3%, and S-I-29 is about 5%.
	In the piece that Russell Vernon Clark and two other labs, mind you, tested, the S-I-29 was 13%, S-I-28 was 27%.
	Okay, what does all that mean?
	Does that mean it's not... Well, those are the silicon isotopes.
	Yes, does that mean it would not be of Earth origin?
	That it was so different, it would not be of... What does it mean?
	That's exactly correct.
	These are what are considered non-terrestrial isotopic ratios.
	Gotcha.
	Now, the other 0.1%, which consisted of nickel, zinc, and silver, and not only was the silicon showing non-terrestrial isotopic ratios, but each one of the other metals also was non-terrestrial.
	So, at this point, you've got a hot piece on your hand.
	Two labs, you say?
	Well, Russell Bernard Clark did it, and then he sent it to two additional labs to confirm what he did.
	And they all came back with the same result?
	All came back with the same, and then we had it tested by Dr. Bill Mallow at the Southwest Laboratories, which as Whitley will tell you, is now pretty much a closed lab to anything but military.
	Okay.
	So they were very good, and they are now solely military, is that right?
	Right.
	Well, prior to... Dr. Mello was a real adventurer.
	He was also one of the most powerful people out of Southwest Research, having been there since 1954, and having been hired directly by Tom Slick, the founder of the lab.
	and Mr. Slick was an adventurer himself.
	He set up and went on the first scientific expedition ever to go in search of the Getty.
	And he also developed something called the Mind Science Foundation, which has degenerated
	into a very uninteresting organization as well.
	But in his time, both of these organizations were at the leading edge of their field.
	However, when the director who had been with Mr. Slick from the beginning and was Bill Mallow's close friend
	retired, the new director immediately called him in
	and said he wanted him to stop doing this UFO stuff.
	And I quote, Dr. Mallow said to me, a direct quote from him was this, our CIA client takes a dim view of your UFO interests.
	But of course it didn't stop Bill at all.
	uh... what changed was that he couldn't send us reports on official letterhead
	anymore he had to write them out by hand or given to us verbally
	but we still had full access to the equipment of the lab
	and the more than willing help every scientist
	there that we talked to and who saw the things we were bringing in and who realized that there
	really were anomaly being observed
	Alright, so you have the real thing, because I mean, the isotopes, people should understand, the isotopes have to be exact, and if they're not, scientists very easily can tell you, hey, this did not come from Earth, and that's what you had on your hands, according to two labs, so what then?
	Well, there were other tests that they ran.
	One was a test that, let me explain, the surface on this object, one of the surfaces had a slight curve to it.
	And they were able to place this on a computerized instrument and stretch out the curve until it became a full circle.
	And I believe that the diameter of this circle was 36 feet.
	So that would have been the diameter of the object or part of the full piece, which could have been just a piece of something.
	That's correct.
	OK.
	The other thing, one of the other things they measured was some kind of spectrographic analysis of the colors of the material.
	And they determined that this piece had reached temperatures above one million degrees centigrade.
	That would be the sun's temperature.
	It's about the center of the sun.
	A million degrees, I believe.
	Well, it's pretty hot.
	And now, physically, you could, without any laboratory, we did this many times, you could hold one end of it and dip it into just cold water, and the end that you were holding got so cold that it would actually burn your fingers.
	You'd have to drop it.
	Really?
	And the other property that it had was, if you did the same with the old I said tea water, you know, about the temperature of tea, drinkable tea.
	Yes.
	You could dip it one end and there, and then the other end became so hot, again, you couldn't hold it, you'd have to drop it.
	Oh, that's a really interesting piece, no question about it.
	So, the colors on it, too, as I said, were very interesting, and you could see that the surface, one of the surfaces looked like it was, for lack of a better word, it looked like it was machined.
	Hal Puthoff, as you know, who was with Mids for many years and has a double PhD, got very interested in the piece and out of his own pocket he paid to have some tests done on the piece.
	Unfortunately, when Bill Mallow died, his files, we don't know what happened to them, And all the material that was done at Southwest Labs was sent to Jim Fueling, who died, and so far this surviving life has not been able to find the file.
	However, I almost hesitate to say this on the air, but I have well-hidden quite a bit of the material that Bill Mallow produced, the files that he produced on these things.
	Oh, you do?
	Yes, I do.
	I don't have any intention of saying where it is.
	In fact, I... That's good.
	With what I've heard so far tonight, I don't think I'd tell him where it is.
	Well, you haven't.
	You haven't heard it all yet, Art.
	No, no.
	It gets much worse.
	It gets worse?
	It's just the beginning.
	Oh, really?
	Okay, Doctor, by all means, continue.
	Where do we go with this?
	By now, you know it's from elsewhere, so what do you do with it?
	It certainly appears to be from elsewhere.
	Some years after the Roswell press conference, an individual who befriended me some years ago, a former producer for CBS, decided to leave CBS and go into the production aspect of computerization.
	So he was working for companies setting up production.
	He knew about this piece and was very ambitious and extremely into the UFO field.
	He had done a number of very successful UFO videos.
	And being very innovative, he wanted to put on the first international UFO conference on the Internet.
	And he spent a lot of his own money and a lot of investors' money.
	There were a lot of people who were invited to speak.
	I believe Whitley was also one of them.
	He advanced, in advance, sums of money to each one of the individuals that was going to speak at the conference.
	It would be live.
	People could ask questions.
	Well, the principal subject to sort of ground the conference, he wanted to use this piece of material.
	So this was right after the time that Bill Mallow had done the research on the material, and we were going to use this data and broadcast it live all over the world on the Internet.
	Yes.
	There was a website, which I won't mention now, but suddenly, two days before the conference, I got a call from Chris saying there's something wrong.
	I can't say what it is, but go to the website.
	Yes.
	Well, you know, you dial in the URL, and usually if you can't get it, you get a menu that comes up, so this page is not available.
	Right.
	Whatever.
	Right.
	Well, you dial this URL, and the screen would go black.
	I mean, like night.
	Black.
	No writing.
	No nothing.
	So you do it once, you figure, oh, you know, there's something wrong with the machines.
	I'd do it again.
	I'd do it a couple of times, and the screen goes black.
	I didn't know what was going on.
	That night, I got a call from Bill Mallow, and he sounded rather upset on the phone.
	Yes?
	And he said, you know that piece of material that I was looking at?
	And I said, yes, Bill, of course I do.
	He said, well, I want you to know it's nothing but a piece of ordinary silicone.
	Silicone?
	It's nothing but a piece of ordinary silicone.
	Now wait a minute, this is the man who had confirmed the isotope ratios earlier.
	Yes.
	And all of a sudden he's saying it's nothing but ordinary silicone.
	Yeah, in those exact words.
	It's nothing but a piece of ordinary silicone.
	He repeated it about four times.
	He said, I'm sorry, and hung up.
	There was no further conversation.
	The following day, I tried to get a hold of Chris, and I couldn't get a hold of him, but I got notice that the conference was canceled.
	The following day, I finally got a hold of Chris and he said, well, the conference was cancelled because that piece of material was nothing but a piece of ordinary silicone.
	And he repeated it a couple of times.
	I thought that was rather strange.
	He wouldn't talk, wouldn't discuss, tell me why.
	The conference was cancelled until about a week later when he came down here from the Bay Area, San Francisco Bay Area.
	And I said, what in the world is going on?
	He said, I'm scared to death, Roger.
	I'm scared to death.
	I don't want anything further to do with this piece or with UFOs.
	And I said, what's going on?
	What happened?
	And he said, I was at work, he said, and I had a visit from two suits.
	They showed me some identification, asked me to accompany them.
	And they took me and put me in a van and drove me around the San Francisco area for 11 hours telling me that the piece of material was nothing but a piece of ordinary silicone, there was no website, and there is no International UFO Conference.
	Wow!
	Now that man today still has absolutely nothing to do with the subject of UFOs.
	To this very hour.
	To this very hour.
	And it doesn't end there.
	Holy mackerel!
	Holy mackerel!
	There must really, really be something about this particular piece.
	Absolutely.
	No question whatsoever.
	This piece is sensitive material.
	It's real.
	Something obviously is quite real about it.
	But you know, you never know how they work.
	It may be that They concentrated on this precisely because it isn't real, in order to throw off something else that is.
	The trouble with this field is, it's a hall of mirrors, and you can never, never forget that.
	But right now, judging from what happened, it really does look like this is a very sensitive piece.
	There was something, I believe, that That Whitley might remember.
	I talked to you at one time, close to after all this had happened, and you told me on the phone that you had talked to Bill, and I remember you told me something to the effect that he had very gently leaned on.
	Really?
	Bill, yeah, he had been.
	He was really circumspect about this with me because one of the things that would happen is that when Bill was having any kind of pressure put on him, we'd go to lunch at Marie Callender's near, not far from Southwest Research, and we'd have a lovely jovial lunch during which it would become clear That he was having some sort of trouble, but he was really very, very careful about it.
	He still had a high security clearance.
	He had a lot of secrets.
	Did he give you any idea of what this gentle pressure consisted of?
	Yeah, I had the impression that it came from the military.
	It came from friends of his in the military.
	I don't know exactly who they were, but it was pressure that he was not interested in.
	And basically he just ignored it, but he wanted me to know that it was there.
	Well, tied in with everything else we've already heard about this, that begins to be meaningful.
	Now, you might disagree with that otherwise, but already there's quite a history of death.
	Oh, there's a history, all right.
	This object has been, uh... It's, first of all, I would really think twice at this time if I was a scientist wanting to work on it.
	I don't think you even still have it, do you, Roger?
	Oh, that's a very good question, Will.
	I knew you were going to ask.
	I mean, you kept talking about it in the past tense.
	Yes, I have, let's say, secured it by passing it on to a chain.
	So basically, I don't know where it is.
	So you felt it necessary by now to take that kind of precaution to get it out in the wind totally?
	I mean being passed I guess from person to person or what?
	Yes, being passed from person to person and at various times I may get an inkling as to where it is and so on.
	It's a familiar technique.
	I'm using it also with Bill's stuff and with some other things.
	All right, gentlemen, hold tight.
	We're here at the bottom of the hour.
	Hold on.
	We'll be right back.
	and believe me you have not heard all there is to hear about this unusual piece of whatever.
	Your imaginary lovers never turn you down and all the others turn you away, they're all gone.
	It's my private pleasure, midnight fantasy someone to share my wildest dreams with me
	imaginary lovers.
	www.jimmyfifes.com He's got this dream about buying some land.
	He's gonna give up the booze and the one night stands.
	And then he'll settle down.
	He's gonna give up the booze and the one night stands And then he'll settle down in this quiet little town
	And forget about everything But you know he'll always keep moving
	You know he's never gonna stop moving Cause he's rolling, he's the Rolling Stones
	When you wake up it's a new morning The sun is shining, it's a new morning
	You're going, you're going home To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code
	7.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	line is area code 775-727-1222. To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free
	at 800-825-5033. From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
	International callers may reach Art by calling your in-country Sprint Access number,
	pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
	From coast to coast and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	All right, let's see if I've got this straight.
	Dr. Lear gets A piece of something from New Mexico on a crash site.
	It starts to get tested and handled by many.
	It's proven to be off-planetary.
	The isotope ratios are all wrong for anything from Earth.
	And then people around it begin to die.
	And have great misfortune.
	And you haven't heard it all yet.
	Jonathan, in London, England, says, Hey Art, listen.
	That piece is nothing but silicone.
	A bit of silicone.
	And there is no UFO website.
	Got it?
	Felt compelled to send that all the way from London, huh?
	Jonathan, we'll be right back.
	Sound of a jet taking off.
	Oh!
	Sound of a jet taking off.
	Really sounds like something right out of the X-Files, actually.
	The .exe files actually are.
	All right, Dr. Lear and Whitley Strieber, both of you.
	I have a little piece of breaking news.
	I don't want to interrupt our flow, but I do want to say this just briefly, because this just came in a few minutes ago.
	Fire away.
	Okay, this has happened over Lanzhou in China, I guess about eight hours ago during their evening, Saturday night, and something exploded over this city.
	They're saying it was a UFO that exploded.
	Two parallel red lights went across the city, and then there was a tremendous explosion that lit up the place like daylight over a suburb, and the You know, China has a different attitude towards UFOs.
	They have a semi-official UFO research group there, and the government has an entirely different approach to the thing than the U.S.
	government does.
	In what sense?
	Well, they're much more open to this, and they consider it a worthwhile area of scientific research in China.
	And so one apparently has blown up over the name of the city again, please.
	Lanzhou, in western China.
	What's interesting about this is that there have been reports from Western China and a part of India recently, a lot of reports of a tremendous amount of UFO activity in the area, so it's a quite interesting story.
	One blowing up is really big.
	Where did that come from, Woodley?
	It came from a... I'm not sure.
	They just put it up on my website a minute ago.
	Let me look and see.
	Alright.
	It's up on unknowncountry.com.
	UFO appears to explode in China, and the story comes from News24.com.
	Okay.
	It just literally just appeared.
	Yeah, I'm not familiar with that, but that's fine.
	That should be quite a developing story, actually.
	All right.
	Well, I hope it will develop as a story.
	It's difficult sometimes to get news out of China, but we do try hard to do it.
	We've got some pretty good sources there for our website.
	So if this develops and it's found out that it was a meteor or it wasn't, I think we'll probably be able to We'll do follow-up stories in the next few days.
	Either that, or we'll get a picture of a mid-level Chinese military guy holding up a piece of aluminum foil.
	Okay.
	That's been done, Art.
	All right.
	Let's get back to our story of this piece, because it wasn't over, was it?
	I mean, weird as it sounds.
	Not by any means.
	All right.
	What can continue, then?
	Okay.
	That brings us up, Art, to the present time.
	I was approached a few months ago.
	By a production company in the San Fernando Valley.
	It was pretty well known, and I don't think there's any problem I'm mentioning their name.
	It was called Cosgrove Muir Productions.
	And they're quite well known.
	They've been in business for some time.
	I know John Cosgrove perfectly well.
	So anyway, they contacted me and wanted to do a story on a couple of things.
	One, of course, was implants.
	He wanted to know if I had anything else, and I said, well, I hate to hesitate to mention this, but there's a very interesting piece of material, and it's got quite a story to it, and perhaps I can get the wife of the deceased individual who I got it from to go on the air.
	Also, I did not mention that Jesse Marcel Jr.
	Looked at this piece and he was also at the press conference and he said that this looked like a piece of material which he called Bakelite because it was dark and he claimed that his father brought all this material and laid it out on the kitchen floor and this looked like a piece of the Bakelite material and he said he had not seen it since he was 12 years old.
	I interviewed him.
	I recall that description actually.
	So I said, well, you know, maybe we could get him on the air, you know, do a program.
	So anyway, they went forward and they said, what we want to do is to take a piece of this material and have it tested.
	Would you have any objection?
	And I said, no, I'd be delighted because there's no such thing as too much data.
	Right.
	So what they wanted was a very precise little measured piece cut off the original sample.
	So I took it down to a lapidary, and I had a piece cut off that was about two millimeters by, let's say, six millimeters.
	It was a perfect rectangle.
	And I put it in a little plastic container, and I gave it to the producer, and they took it.
	And of course, they promised to give me the results, and I suggested that you could do another Sims isotopic ratio test, because Production companies really don't know what to look for scientifically.
	Yeah, and you already knew.
	Yeah.
	And I gave them copies of the data that I already had, which were quite voluminous and so on.
	So they went ahead and they shot the program and it aired quite recently, a few weeks ago.
	The program was called Proof Positive.
	Yes.
	And they do three segments and they have three stories on an hour.
	And one at the end of the program is deemed proof positive, another proof negative, and another proof undecided.
	Well, it did a real nice job on the story of the piece, but when it came to the scientific aspect of it, it was proof negative.
	What do you know?
	What do you know?
	I don't have the piece of material that I gave to them.
	I don't have any reports.
	I don't have anything.
	So I decided to get in touch with them.
	And lo and behold, there's no answer.
	What do you mean, no answer?
	There's no answer at the production company.
	So I call, and call, and call, and call, and over a period of weeks, I finally don't get anybody.
	And I had a number that I had gotten originally that I was not calling.
	So I called that number, and the girl answered the phone.
	And I said, oh my gosh, I finally got somebody, a live person there.
	She laughed.
	I thought that was funny.
	I said, uh, is there anybody there still from the production staff of Proof Positive?
	And she said, oh, no, no, they're all gone.
	They're all gone.
	I said, well, where are they?
	She said, oh, I don't have the slightest idea.
	But, you know, the program was done and shot, which is not unusual.
	And I said, well, you know, you must have other people there that haven't been able to get an answer on the phone.
	She said, no, there's nobody else here, only me.
	And I said, you mean you have no other productions going on?
	And she said, no, no, no, no, nothing happening, nothing going on.
	And I said, well, we have a problem.
	And she said, what's that?
	And I said, well, you know, I supplied a piece of material.
	And she knew right away who I was, strangely, too.
	Just Dr. Lear.
	Oh, yes.
	Anyway, I said, I went to the piece of material to test.
	I said, I never got that back.
	I never got any of the scientific data, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
	And she says, Oh, I'll put you in touch with this lady.
	And she gave me the phone number and I called and I didn't get an answer back for about three days.
	Finally she called me back and I said, you know, I told her what I was missing.
	And she says, Okay.
	She says, Oh, let's see what I can do.
	In the meantime, I was able to find out the name of the scientist at UCLA who did the testing on the piece.
	And so you called him?
	Oh, I called him.
	And?
	And told him who I was.
	And he was very apologetic and on the defensive.
	And I said, look, I'm not questioning your integrity or the test that you did.
	Your findings are what you found.
	I just, you know, find it strange that about three or four of the laboratories find something else, and you found this.
	And he says, no, no.
	He says, I did the test very carefully, and et cetera.
	And he said, I hope you don't mind.
	He says, I cut the tip off the object.
	And I said, excuse me?
	He says, yes, I hope you don't mind.
	He says, all I did was cut the tip off the object.
	And I said, the tip?
	He says, yeah, the tip of the triangle.
	What triangle are you talking about?
	He says, oh, the piece was a triangular piece of material.
	Well, you hadn't sent a triangle.
	You had sent a rectangle.
	That's correct.
	Now, I said, is there any chance I can get a copy of the data?
	And he says, well, I'm not supposed to do this, but, you know, since you're the owner of the piece, give me your email and I'll email it to you.
	And I said, OK, fine.
	I said, also, in your email, would you please put the description as close as you can as to what you tested?
	So he did, and I got a very nice two-page report signed by him.
	And then, almost the following day, as synchronicity would have it, a package arrives in the mail.
	And it's all the data that I sent, and the photographs of the piece, and there's a little plastic container.
	And I open the container, and lo and behold, there's this little triangular piece of material, which looks like a piece of silicone, but it's not from my piece.
	It's not the same piece?
	Not the same piece.
	And you determine that how?
	Well, you can look at it grossly and see it's not the same piece, and I tried to match it in every which way possible with the original.
	And the scientist at UCLA that did the test didn't test, or do you feel that you got back the piece he did test?
	I got back the piece by mistake.
	That he tested.
	Oh my God.
	Because she told me on the telephone she was so excited because she found this piece locked away in the producer's locker.
	So somebody switched the pieces and moreover then screwed up the return.
	Exactly.
	And in the process your piece is gone.
	My piece is gone and the piece they use I have.
	How do you like those apples?
	Well, I don't know.
	I don't like those apples at all.
	And if I were you, I would keep that piece rotating, too.
	I wouldn't keep it anywhere near me.
	Oh, that's a shame, because it was going to go to you next.
	I've had my own experience with that sort of thing.
	Thank you very much.
	And you never quite know what to do with these things.
	Anyway, don't send it to me.
	Whatever you do with it, I don't care.
	But, Todd, don't send it to me.
	So what are you going to do?
	Well, I'm hoping that somebody will come up with some ideas and that some further testing can go on at a later date offshore.
	Yeah, that's very important nowadays to do testing offshore.
	I learned my lesson with the Elmendorf Beast.
	We sent an adequate DNA sample to a lab here in California, and after a long and very inappropriate wait, they told us that the The sample was too degraded by either radiation or high heat or light, none of which had affected the thing.
	Alright, so what are you two alleging?
	That so many of our laboratories and testing facilities in the United States are so compromised?
	Well, either that they're compromised or, and I think in the case of this lab, They did find something unusual, and they just don't want to put their name to it for fear of being embarrassed, because they're... Scientists are in danger in the United States if they expose anything unusual, and they know it.
	Their careers can be jeopardized.
	Well, you know, the other thing is that so many of these laboratories are doing government work.
	That's another thing, a la Southwest Research.
	Our CIA client takes a dim view.
	Yeah.
	That's all really strange stuff and very concerning.
	So you're saying you've got to take something strange, you want it tested, go offshore.
	That's probably the best thing today.
	And you know, as you know, I have material all the time.
	Those objects which are moved surgically.
	I have another case now, by the way, who has a metallic object in the foot.
	And I'm trying to raise enough funds.
	To do the surgery on this lady, and I just, you know, unless I get some funds, I can't continue the work.
	So if we have any listeners out there that want to help with this research, please get in touch with me.
	This is a really good case with a long abduction history, not only of the individual involved, but also her family.
	Very interesting cassette tapes that are recorded by the father, but it goes all the way through the family.
	Now, you also have, of course, your book for $24.95.
	You have The Scientific Study of Alien Implants, a DVD for $24.95, video $20, right?
	Right.
	The research of Dr. Roger Lear, a DVD, $20, the video $15, and a number where all this can be ordered, and this will all help out in money for further research, right?
	Every dime that comes in for the sale of books and the videos I've done goes directly into our nonprofit organization for research.
	We have a 501c3 nonprofit.
	And also we can film this present surgery and if anyone is interested in getting a copy of that surgery, all they have to do is get in touch with me.
	I can give out my email address.
	All right.
	Well, you've got a website, alienscalpel.com.
	You've got a phone number for ordering, which is area code 805-495-2613.
	That's 805-495-2613.
	The proceeds going to further research, correct?
	That is correct.
	And if they have a credit card, they can get the book from the publisher, which is very simply Info, I-N-F-O, at Truth Seekers Network.
	Yeah, you know, I had a piece, I still have a piece, and I don't say where it is either.
	And I must tell you, I had a lot of testing done on it, and the money for it, Linda Moulton Howe and myself split the costs of getting it tested.
	I mean, this doesn't come from mid-air.
	You've got a piece like this, you've got to yank the money out of your own pocket to get the testing done, and it's not cheap.
	Exactly, and that's exactly what I've been doing since I started doing this until my finances are not so good this morning.
	Yes, well, there you are.
	They're kind of bad.
	Yeah, there you are.
	So that's the way it's done, folks, and you can help out by ordering some of this material and understand more as well.
	Anything else on the explosion in China, Whitley?
	Not yet, no.
	It'll be a few days before we get more, because we have to go directly to the Chinese news sources, and there are language issues and so on and so forth.
	How do you think the Chinese government will handle this if they really do have something on their hands, as opposed to the way we and others have?
	Oh, I don't think that they'll hide it.
	I think if they get Debris that's part of a UFO, they will announce it to the public.
	No question in my mind about it.
	If that were to happen there, it would be a much more open and a much different approach than we would have in the United States.
	Well, that's pretty sad.
	I mean, we are the democracy with the First Amendment and all of that.
	They are the communist state.
	Well, they're still very, very communist, actually, and so to say that, well, if it happens to the Chinese, they'll just show the world.
	I don't know, there's something wrong with that.
	Look at what's happening in China.
	China is a booming, forward-looking economy.
	It's immensely aggressive and immensely competent.
	Like when Roger was talking about laboratories, I was thinking to myself that There's better equipment available to us in China at far less cost and with a virtual guarantee of honest results from labs in China, in Shanghai in particular.
	But still, Whitley, all in all, there is something wrong.
	It's not sad, Art, but I'm just saying it's the truth.
	Well, there's a tremendous entanglement in China of U.S.
	money and growth, and of course the products we're buying from China are a huge, extreme amount.
	But I recall Dr. Sun Qinli, who was in UFO research in China.
	Do you remember him, Whitley?
	Yes.
	Yeah, he might be the right person to get a hold of.
	I remember some years ago, he was jailed.
	For doing this kind of work, but they let him go.
	So all is not right.
	All is not right in China.
	All right, gentlemen, that's it.
	We're out of time.
	Thank you both very much.
	And Dr. Lear, stay healthy.
	Will do, Art.
	Thank you.
	Whitley, talk to you, I'm sure, with Ann next week.
	Next week with Ann, that's right.
	See you later.
	Take care, you two.
	From the high desert in the middle of the night, I'm Art Bell.
	James McCanney, upcoming after the break at the top of the hour.
	As for the rest of you, don't touch that dial.
	The heart of the city street is beating.
	Light from the neon's turned to dark.
	The heart of the city street is beating.
	...order a line, for the hitman calls.
	He knows damn well he has been cheated.
	And he's taken.
	Now I'm stepping into the twilight zone.
	This is a madhouse, it feels like before.
	My fingers get warm, got the moon and star.
	Where am I to go now that I've fallen too far?
	Now I'm stepping into the twilight zone.
	This is a madhouse, it feels like before.
	My fingers get warm, got the moon and star.
	Where am I to go now?
	I'll never go to the forest You know where I'll go
	When the bullet hits the bone You know where I'll go
	When the bullet hits the bone When the bullet hits the bone
	New Talk with Art Bell Call the wildcard line at area code 7
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	is area code 775-727-1222. To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free
	at 800-825-5033. From west of the Rockies, call Art at 800-618-8255.
	International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country Sprint Access
	number, pressing Option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903. From coast to coast and
	worldwide on the Internet, Art on the internet. This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	Sure enough, folks, I've got the link right here.
	Headline, UFO explodes in China.
	This is breaking news.
	Beijing, an unidentified flying object, or UFO, passed across a large northwestern Chinese city called Lantau.
	And apparently exploded in the suburbs, according to state media.
	The unusual sighting of two bright trails of light, reported by several witnesses, took place on Saturday, shortly before midnight, according to the China Times.
	Police...
	Working on the theory that it was a meteorite.
	Went to investigate the matter, but as of early Monday, they found no evidence of what caused the nightly phenomena.
	A taxi driver told the paper he was in his car when everything suddenly became bright as day.
	When he pulled over, he saw a fireball with a tail of about three meters darting across the sky.
	One witness, who was on late shift at his company, reported the courtyard outside his office was suddenly bathed in a ghostly red light as the object Passed overhead.
	Others said they heard a huge explosion and it felt like an earthquake.
	So, there you have it.
	Things are heating up in China.
	Patrick goes on to say China's been hit by several waves of UFO sightings in recent years, but this one sounds very immediate.
	We'll keep you informed as details become available.
	Professor James McCanney MS is a physicist who spent several decades promoting his theoretical work showing that the solar system is ever-changing and is electrically active.
	These theories have been confirmed with space probe data and they prove that there are definite earth effects resulting from our sun's electrical activity.
	He has openly opposed NASA's view that outer space is electrically neutral.
	McKinney was a faculty member of the Physics and Mathematics Departments of Cornell University, Ithaca, New York.
	Has researched theoretical celestial mechanics and plasma physics for the layman.
	These are the studies of planetary motion and electrified gases in outer space.
	And has presented his theories at the Los Alamos National Labs and American Geophysical Union.
	This will be a good one.
	professor mccanney in a moment professor mccanney welcome to the program
	It's great to have you back.
	Well, it's always wonderful to be on a show with you.
	I'm going to drag you away from what we were going to talk about for just a moment, and perhaps even out of your area.
	I'm not sure, but maybe you can comment on this for me.
	It's such a broad stroke that I'm about to make that I don't know if you're going to be able to comment.
	In recent months, and it now has been over a couple of months, Professor, I'm a ham operator, and the low part of the high frequencies, the shortwave bands, are acting now in a way I have never, nor have the people I talk with, have ever seen in all... You know, we're getting a little long in the tooth.
	We've been through a few 11-year sun cycles now, and while that's not a long history, It's enough history that we have operators understand what's going on right now on these frequencies is totally anomalous.
	We've never seen it before.
	We don't have a lot of history with the sun affecting radio communications.
	But shortwave NVIS communications on the lower frequencies are regularly, on a nightly basis, shutting down to two or even one megahertz as the maximum usable frequency.
	It's weird.
	And so, I sort of looked at that, something going on with the ionosphere.
	I looked at the ozone problems in the magnetosphere.
	There was a story recently of cracks in the magnetosphere, a really weird story.
	Allowing particles in that otherwise wouldn't be there, perhaps causing the storming that is causing this effect.
	Something is up, Professor.
	Do you have any comments?
	I certainly do.
	First of all, now, would you associate, just from your ham radio operation, would you associate this with a solar maximum activity?
	You were mentioning You know, I don't know what I would associate it with, because there's nothing in my frame of experience, having gone through all of these interesting solar cycles, to... For example, we're having this... It's kind of like we're getting hit by tremendous solar storms, except...
	We're not.
	In other words, even in periods when it's quiet and there's no reason in the numbers that we watch, the A and K and indexes and so forth, nothing in the numbers to justify what seems to be going on.
	Right.
	And here is what is going on.
	Actually, the solar system from about 1995 has been increasing in electrical energy.
	And let me preface this by saying that the sun puts out probably, I don't know exactly, but I would say thousands if not hundreds of thousands of times more energy in the form of electrical energy than it does in the form of visible light, which is a lot of energy.
	Most of this energy passes by us because we are buffered by our magnetic field.
	And it's one of the little items that standard, traditional astronomy and astrophysics has not grabbed onto yet, out of my work.
	And what is happening, every time we see a solar flare, that's a positive blast, or a positive, a blast of positive, positively charged material.
	And that is going out to the edge of the solar system and beyond, holding back a giant nebular cloud Which I call the Donut Nebula.
	We've observed these around other stars, but this is building up, and when we hit solar maximum, it didn't stop.
	Usually then it breaks down, it starts to come back, the return current sheets, one of which passes through the solar system where we go through in the month of August.
	I call it the August Return Current Sheet, which we are still somewhat in, by the way.
	But anyway, to make a long story short, The entire solar system is being pumped up, and our Earth, like comets, like Jupiter, is discharging this at all times, and so what's happening, because of the overall increase in energy of the solar system, our little local discharge that Earth goes through every day, it's going on all the time, creates this electrical current that creates our auroras,
	From the nose side, the electrons coming in from the sun, and then the tail side, ions coming into Earth, this entire overall discharge is greatly increased.
	It's compressing our magnetic field, and I've been on with George, and I know we did a weather show last, I think September or August, and we talked about some of this, where The solar capacitor is really pumped up a lot, and it has never subsided from the 2000 solar maximum.
	So yes, we are definitely in an electrical solar system, and we're seeing the effects.
	Well, all right.
	It did not subside, you're saying, when it should have.
	Correct.
	Why not?
	We don't know, but my statement, and this is actually, we were watching this in the 90s, And the Russians were watching this.
	I was working with some Russian scientists at the time, and they were very concerned and seeing also the physical effects of this.
	Alexei Dmitriev had written numerous papers.
	What kind of effects?
	They called it the increase in planetomagnetic functions, they called them.
	And what they call the vacuum domain or outer space.
	And basically they were saying all of their weather that they're observing is increasing in energy.
	The storms, the activity.
	Oh yes, absolutely.
	And this is the end result of the sun just pumping up.
	But my estimation, my personal estimation, is that a large comet, Hale-Bopp, Uh, if you understand that comets are not dirty snowballs, they in fact are a discharge of this large solar capacitor.
	And the physical part of this is what we call a comet, the tail.
	But what we don't see is this electrical discharge that connects that outer plasma shell of the sun with the sun itself.
	And that, what that does is that draws energy from that big storage tank out there, what I call the solar capacitor, back into the sun.
	on a daily basis.
	So for six years, Hale-Bopp was pumping up the energy of the sun as it moved through the solar system.
	And then, as we hit the year 2000, Hale-Bopp was moving out, but it had already done its damage.
	It does seem as though comets have an effect on the sun.
	From the early lore of American Indians to modern-day physics, many are talking about this, that there is An effect that comets have on the sun.
	And you're saying it's electrical in nature, at least in part, huh?
	Right.
	And just so happens, I put up for tonight's show on my page, near the very top, there's a little link and there's a movie there.
	It's a two meg download.
	Do you have something you could quick download?
	Oh, probably.
	Yeah.
	Go to the top of my web page.
	I'm sure there's a link on the On the coast-to-coast webpage there.
	Oh, well there is, but normally when we do this, the expectation is it'll all crash, because they'll get there before I do.
	But at any rate, there is a video of a comet that passed by in 2004, just this past January, and the comet comes by the sun and ignites a tremendous explosion out of the sun, and this is just one of dozens of movies I have like this, where comets come by the sun, we have comet Neat V1 last February.
	What would you want me to be downloading?
	I'm on your page.
	Okay, scroll down.
	There's the first kind of yellow line there, and then the second one.
	It says Holiday Treat.
	Current, let's see, Comet Solar Flare movie?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	There's a line there.
	I'm going to take a shot at it here.
	We'll see what happens.
	Well, I'm in the process of trying to get it, so we'll see.
	Okay, and anyway... For those who have radio, which are many, and aren't going to be able to see what I'm going to see, describe what's coming up, please.
	Okay, a comet comes in.
	This is viewed through the Soho C3 camera, so you get a wide-angle view of the Sun.
	And the Sun is blocked out by a little patch in the middle.
	So what you're seeing is the star background of the Sun as we view it from Earth.
	Right.
	And then up from the lower left-hand corner comes a large comet.
	And I don't know how large the nucleus is, but it's a significant comet.
	So at any rate, the comet comes up, swings by the sun, and on the bigger high-resolution photos, you can see the actual electrical snap, like a spark plug, as that comet comes by the sun.
	And then you can see the sun begin to rumble, so to speak.
	And the comet passes by and then boom!
	The whole surface of the sun lifts off in a tremendous explosion.
	Full halo thing?
	Yeah, coronal mass ejection.
	That's exactly what I was talking about when I was sort of agreeing earlier.
	Every comet, it seems as though, that has passed by the sun has caused this sudden increase, gigantic increase in activity and full coronal discharges, that sort of thing.
	As the comet goes by, almost everyone, I really have observed that.
	I've watched that myself.
	It does seem to be true.
	And so the situation with a comet that's farther out, say for example, Hale-Bopp, is that it is just constantly, what we don't see in a comet with our eyes, but what you can see with other instrumentation, is an electron beam.
	It literally is coming out from the negatively charged sun relative to the outer edge of the capacitor.
	And that's a very narrow, concentrated electron beam, and it comes out and hits the comet nucleus, actually is the cause of its charging to a high negative potential, and that's what causes the comet tail to come rushing into the nucleus.
	So maybe there's a really good reason for the American natives to have a great deal of lore, the Hopi for example, about comets pretending great change.
	Right, and the thing is, in modern astronomical history, We have not seen the really big comets.
	I'm talking about the ones that stretch from the end of the sky to the other end of the sky, and they're blazing in the daylight sky.
	By the way, I just had the movie run, and I saw exactly what you were talking about.
	I saw the comments pass, I saw something as it passed, and I sure as hell saw the full coronal discharge.
	This is a fairly accelerated view, folks, of what happened, and it's taken by, again, This satellite, we've got out, I think it's about a million miles out, and its sole job is to watch Sol, the Sun.
	Right.
	That's what it does, and gives us fantastic photography in return.
	And when did you get hold of this?
	This, actually, I had not seen before.
	It was on the movie page of the Soho satellite.
	They had put it up as one of the premier Videos, so to speak, of the year.
	And prior to that, I tracked these fairly closely.
	I'd never seen it before, just a few days ago, when they posted this.
	So I said, that's a great one to illustrate on tonight's show, this principle, and lo and behold, here's where we start, excuse me, with this topic of what's going on with the sun.
	Is there any way, strange as what's going on right now, is there any way for us to get an idea of, or even a guess, of where it's going?
	Well, the other thing that I believe I've been tracking, and this is just in terms of the sun's energy, now, Hale-Bopp went out and you would expect possibly that the sun would then begin to subside, but around 2001 in May, I detected a tremendous increase in solar activity.
	And about that time also, I began tracking a very unusually high number of comets coming from the south and coming in and buzzing the sun.
	And these comets, typically a comet would come in like this, orbit around the sun, and then go back out.
	But these comets were hitting the Sun, which meant they came from a dead stop, almost, relative to our Sun.
	In other words, they had no lateral motion that would cause them to go into an orbit.
	What is the implication here?
	That some force stopped them and redirected them toward our Sun?
	Or, there is literally an entourage of stuff coming in from the outer solar system, and this is just the leading edge of it.
	In other words, a large mini-solar system With, at its center, a very large object.
	Something, say, like a Jupiter-class object.
	And what happens as these objects break into that outer capacitor, which is about three times the distance to Pluto.
	That's my estimate of where it is now.
	By the way, when I started this in 1979, we thought that the edge of that solar heliopause was around the orbit of Jupiter.
	And now it's moved way out, and of course we've got spacecraft, the Voyagers and Pioneers that are way out beyond Pluto, and still have not encountered the heliopause, so at this point I'm saying it must be about two to three times the distance to Pluto.
	Define heliopause.
	Well, okay, the solar wind is pushing out, it's pushing out dust and gases, and it's basically a wind Primarily, not primarily of protons, it's a balance of electrons and protons, but if there's an excess of protons in the overall solar wind blowing out from the sun, and it literally holds back dust and gases out way beyond the solar system, and we have pictures of other stars, all our neighboring stars have these shells around them, but basically that's what I call the edge of the solar system.
	But when these objects come in, now that's the edge of the solar capacitor, so when these objects come in, they begin to discharge the solar capacitor, and they immediately form a loose, very large, nebular cloud, like a comet coma, around the object, so they become very difficult to see.
	They're actually shielding themselves And that's why in 2008 NASA is sending up a satellite which is designed to look for those nebular clouds moving into the solar system.
	You can't see them with a small telescope.
	You can't even see them with a good telescope.
	So they're putting up a space-based infrared telescope that is a hundred thousand times more sensitive than anything they have up there now.
	What's the idea behind Well, I think they're catching on to what I'm talking about here.
	Okay, but assuming they are, they would then be able to observe what's coming, but what can they do about it?
	Well, probably not a lot.
	The thing with these objects, they may just be passing through the outer edge of our solar system, but what they do is they bring an entourage of thousands of objects with them.
	Big and small and everything in between.
	So would this just be for predictive capability then, or what?
	Well, like anything, they want to know what's there.
	Part of astronomy is to identify objects and to identify where things are coming from.
	In the last week, it is amazing to see the number of astronomical papers that are coming out Trying to grab on to capture.
	In other words, where did these objects like Sedna, that little Mars-like planet that's sitting out three times the distance to Pluto, right now, where did these things come from?
	And the only possible rational explanation is that they were captured.
	Well, or thrown.
	Right.
	All right, Professor, hold on.
	Professor James McKinney is my guest.
	And right now, we're talking about comets, their effect on the sun, and of course, when the sun gets affected, or... Well, let's see, how could we put this?
	When the sun sneezes... That's a pretty good analogy, actually, to a full halo.
	Chewie!
	When the sun sneezes, we definitely catch cold here on Earth.
	We're going to be doing a lot of research on this.
	Music All our times have come.
	Here but now they're gone.
	Music To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
	727-1222. To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
	From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255. International callers may reach Art by calling
	your in-country Sprint Access number, pressing option 1.
	I have a feeling a lot.
	and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
	From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	I wonder how much the sun really means to us.
	I have a feeling a lot.
	So does Jeannie in Milwaukee, who says, ask about anecdotal data on a radical increase
	in hypertension cases and unexplained incidences of so-called heart virus infection
	during a hail bops passage.
	In other words, as the sun acts in some way, we react in some way.
	and uh... let's see if that really is true we're going to ask about planet x as well
	But Professor, welcome back.
	You know, I said that I said the sun sneezes and we catch cold.
	Is that pretty much true?
	I mean, are we affected?
	Are people affected?
	Anxiety levels, personalities, the whole schmear.
	Absolutely.
	And this, once again, we started actually measuring this back in the nineties.
	The Russians were taking statistics on this and they actually started by looking at the KP index, which is the magnetic fluctuation of our magnetic field due to solar activity.
	And we had some very big blasts back then, which were then uncommon.
	Now they are like daily.
	Almost here, in the 2003-4 time era.
	But they started tracking cancer rates.
	And so as a result, then we started to look at alignments of the planets, electrical alignments that is, and relating it to weather.
	And that is the basis for a lot of my weather work, which just, of course, culminated in a book.
	We also started looking at the basis for astrology, of which the Russians and, by the way, the U.S.
	secretly is very interested in, as you probably know, Art.
	But we started looking at the physical basis for this, and it turns out that due to the discharge of the solar capacitor, which all the planets are doing to a lesser degree than comets, But, there again, Comet Hale-Bopp was a medium-sized comet.
	It wasn't gigantic.
	It wasn't one of the historical giant comets.
	But, it was pumping up the sun on a regular basis, and as a result, our solar energy, the electrical energy passed down to us on Earth through our vertical electric field from the ionosphere was very much increased.
	So, to answer the caller's question there, and this entire question about hypertension, Yes, we are somewhat under siege right now, but nothing like the days that I have read about in ancient texts, where these people were wired to the wall, let's put it that way.
	And you notice that during times when large comets came through and near the Earth in the past, there were times of great war, and it seemed like the whole world was at war.
	That's really right.
	That really is right.
	And comets seem to have... And so, you know, this whole thing that you might call, you know, Native American lore, it just might not be lore at all.
	I mean, there's a reason for it.
	Right.
	And the Hopi Indians are very distinct about the seven layers.
	They even talk about the seven advancement layers.
	And you begin by seeing earth changes of various types.
	And the most advanced is when you have the high winds and the the the all of the earth affects coming all the way up to uh... you know where the oceans are uh... title bulges are getting very large in the uh... the earthquakes in the volcanoes are kicking on you know what else the hope you talk about they talk about what you call and others call planet
	Planet X. Now I would like you to do your best shot for me.
	I've been watching a lot on the internet and what various people have said, a lot of it I sort of consider to be bogus.
	Exactly.
	I mean, I've seen people putting up pictures of supposed things being shadowed by the sun, but look, it was caught on this camera!
	It's monstrous and it's coming toward us!
	And I'm sorry, I haven't bought it right along and I don't buy it now, but that's not to say that there couldn't be A planet X or a large body that at some point will come back and pass very close by and what are your feelings on that possibility?
	Well if you look at simply the statistics of the solar system there are objects out there that are big and we've never seen them before and I always hear astronomers say that They know everything about our solar system, and all the planets that could be are in nice circular orbits, and just when they say that, lo and behold, there's something like Sedna, and the people that discovered Sedna are saying, there are a lot more of those out there, and we don't know how big they are.
	If Sedna is an average object, which is a little bit smaller than, it's about Pluto's size, Then there are bigger ones and there are smaller ones.
	Sedna has just recently been found.
	In what way has it been classed?
	What is it?
	If it's the size of Pluto, now I know Pluto has been suggested its planetary status ought to be yanked.
	It shouldn't be called a planet.
	Some astronomers went through that.
	So if Sedna is as big as Pluto, then what is it?
	Well, it's a red object.
	It has a surface composition, apparently something like Mars, but it's highly reflective, which implies it has a sheen coating of ice on it, like water ice.
	So it's like a mirrored surface.
	So they don't really know yet.
	It's very interesting.
	One of the items that I just added to our list here is that Quoar, Which is another object, just like Sedna, a newly discovered Kuiper object, 783 miles in diameter, so a fairly big, round object, has volcanism on it.
	So all of a sudden... Volcanism?
	Volcanism on Quoar.
	It just came out Friday that they announced this discovery of material on the surface... Now that's incredible!
	That's a very small object compared to, you know, Earth or whatever, a planet.
	Right, and if it's four and a half billion years old, the interesting part of the discovery was that the molecules that they discovered, the material, is short-lived material.
	In other words, it doesn't last long in the environment of outer space.
	So, what they're seeing is recent volcanism, and this is not totally confirmed yet, of course, as with any new astronomical discovery, but what they're showing is that They're basically discovering that these objects may be hot, and these are way out at the distant edge of the solar system where the sun looks like just another star.
	How could they be, unless they're... New.
	New.
	But, yes, but volcanism implies a process going inside that... Exactly, exactly, exactly.
	And what I've been saying all along, our solar system is far more dynamic than this picture that we've been painted of, you know, it formed four and a half billion years ago and nothing has changed since then.
	But back to Planet X, I believe there are many Planet X objects, and let's define the word Planet X. Planet X is a term that goes back to the Middle Ages, used by astronomers in standard astronomy, To define any object that has yet to be named or discovered.
	For example, when Neptune and Uranus had their orbits being pulled down, astronomers at the National Naval Observatory in Washington had a 15-year study to look for the object that was pulling these planets down out of their orbits.
	I have a question, Professor.
	This planet X, would it be defined, in other words, it's something that Comes at perhaps, I've been told, 3600 year intervals.
	Okay, so let me imagine that, and it makes a close swing by us, or at times close, at times not as close, but certainly it passes through our system.
	So this is like a rogue planet, not attached to any sun.
	Well, when it passes through our system, what keeps it from getting captured by our sun and made into a planet, or colliding with one, or whatever?
	Well, and there again, that's always an option, and I don't have for that specific object, if it exists, I don't have a specific orbit, or do I know the planned path of that object, if it exists.
	But, I will say this, that once again, back to the statistics of our solar system, there are very likely very large objects out there that do come into the solar system, possibly some of them into the inner solar system.
	And not only, here's the catch, it's not just the object, it's the thousands of objects that these things carry along with them.
	They're a mini solar system.
	Right, right, right.
	So, again though, my question was, how do these things stay rogue and uncaptured by, you know, the pass by a close sun or whatever?
	Well, let's describe the capture process in celestial mechanics.
	It takes two celestial objects to capture another one.
	If you have a sun or a star sitting all by itself in outer space, and things are moving in from a distance, from a far distance, they'll come around that object and they'll go out and never be captured.
	If you put a second object, say Jupiter in the sun, up here, there's an energy transfer that occurs in celestial mechanics, and the object could either gain energy, or it could lose energy, and when it loses energy, that's where it becomes captured.
	And now the question is, will it become captured in the plane of the planets?
	Or like Hale-Bopp, which is not in the plane of the planets, literally 90 degrees with respect to the plane of the planets.
	Right.
	So, and there are historical records which indicate that Venus was a young comet that was captured by Jupiter, came through the solar system, came by Mars, ripped the oceans and atmosphere off of Mars, Had two close encounters with Earth, and then nestled into its current orbit.
	And the way that happens, that's what a lot of my work revolves around.
	I discovered a lot of this work long before I knew about Velikovsky, or any of these other, you know, native tales, things like that.
	I knew about the Mayans, because I had lived in Central America and South America, and I knew about the Peruvian legends and the other archaeological legends from around the world.
	Basically, the capture process requires two.
	So the Earth, for example, could have captured our moon.
	Or the moon could have captured us.
	Alright, just so that I'm clear, you also don't give any credence or much credence to all this stuff running around the internet about Planet X being on the way in.
	You don't see anything to substantiate any of that.
	What I saw in 2001 indicates that something broke the capacitor at the edge of our solar system and ignited the sun.
	And where Hale-Bopp left off, this object has picked up, let's say, for example, in pumping up the energy of the sun.
	Because we can't attribute now what's going on to Hale-Bopp.
	Hale-Bopp is long gone.
	All right, but Professor, come on, I'm going to pin you down here now.
	Okay, we're getting there.
	Okay, please.
	And the idea is that, no, I do not have specific data, and I will never try to use, say, the idea of Planet X to, say, scare people.
	But the object is that I want to impress on people that the ancients do have definitive information on a recurring, cyclic planet.
	uh... that comes through the solar system and uh... of course the thirty six hundred year number comes from a couple of assumptions that the there's a period that the sumerians put on there's a course sitchin's work and he picks out the thirty six hundred year period i personally don't pick out that period my estimation for when the last time this large object came through was four thousand years ago not Not 3600 years ago.
	But, there again, I don't have proof that it existed.
	We do have tremendous amount of documentation in ancient legends that indicate that big comets have come through the solar system.
	Alright, I'm going to try this one last time.
	Professor, all the stuff on the internet about this thing being coming at us right now.
	True?
	False?
	I do not have any information that would substantiate it.
	That would be a false?
	That would be a false.
	And now the other half of that is, I've gone and had my own expeditions.
	I did this about a year and a half ago, where I went to unbeknownst places in the Southern Hemisphere to look for objects, because I knew they were coming in from the southern part of the solar system, only visible from the southern hemisphere.
	And that's when I began to realize that these objects are very diffuse, because as they move into the solar system, you're only going to be able to see this very diffuse water cloud out there.
	And so you're not going to be able to see this with average equipment.
	And you need very, extremely clear viewing conditions, The world has a water haze up there.
	Is it your view that when they get this new satellite that you talked about in place they will begin to see these?
	Yeah, absolutely.
	If they are up there they will be able to see them and they'll be able to see through to the central object and then of course get a better track on exactly where that object is moving, what its orbit is.
	Like I said earlier, some of these objects may just graze through that outer region of the solar system and pass by and never return.
	Some of them might be recurring objects like the legendary Nibiru and in fact come into the solar system at some point.
	But let's make it clear though, I do not have any information regarding a planet X that's coming in and inevitably going to Impinge on Earth or whatever.
	Good.
	That said, it's not impossible for something like that to occur, but I mean, people want to be very clear.
	There's a lot floating around on the Internet.
	Right.
	And of course, I followed that very closely and was one of the, I'd say, as much as mainstream astronomers did not like me, I was probably one of the champions to To illustrate that those tales were in fact tales, and I talked about it almost weekly and in my own particular broadcast, that there was nothing to substantiate.
	And like you say, these pictures were coming up and being posted on the internet, and people were looking at them and going, what are these?
	Are these real?
	And the point was, I looked at those and could tell that they were not real.
	And I kept telling people, and I had my own observations, Of those areas where people were looking and I was saying, there ain't nothing there, folks.
	So I had multiple ways for myself to judge what was going on.
	But that's a whole 10 shows in itself.
	I see.
	But the quick answer is, I think that there are things moving around out there that If they do discover them, they may not tell us.
	And we've talked about this on shows before, too.
	Are they going to tell us?
	They won't tell us because?
	Well, because we did a show in the 90s, you and Whitley and myself, and we were talking and we made a right turn in that show.
	And I remember you said, and I didn't even understand it at the time, but you said if there was something that was so eminent that there was nothing we could do on Earth and it was coming in, they would not tell us.
	Yeah, I don't think so.
	I mean, what would be the upside to that?
	Nearly nothing.
	Yeah, and so I'm not in charge of that.
	Actually, I think, you know, it would be appropriate to tell the world, but... Why?
	I mean, assuming that the answer is you can do nothing about it, can't do anything about the destruction it will cause, or even the Uh, the complete elimination of the human species, if it was that serious.
	Right.
	But what if it was partial?
	What if it was to the point where there was going to be damage, like we knew, for example, a big hurricane was coming in, and we prepared and we knew there was going to be a lot of damage and a lot of life lost, but we really set the world in motion to get ready for this thing.
	We were going to tough it out because One of my own personal opinions is we should be spending a lot more time, instead of buying SUVs and driving around to malls, we should be spending time and energy with this civilization becoming spacefaring.
	Well, that certainly is a topic all to itself that we can talk about.
	I know you wanted to talk about the XPRIZE a little bit.
	But anyway, that is just along the same line of...
	We don't know when these objects are going to come in, but I guarantee it, someday in the future.
	It's going to happen.
	All right.
	It's going to happen.
	Professor, hold on.
	Professor James McKenney is my guest from the high desert, middle of the night, where we do our work.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	Stay right where you are.
	You You
	you You
	You get a shiver in the dark it's raining in the positive meantime
	Bye.
	Oh, yeah.
	South of the river you stop and you hold everything.
	A band is blowing Dixie, double ball time.
	You feel alright when you hear the music play Well now you step inside but you don't see too many places
	Coming in out of the rain, they hear the jazz go down.
	Competition in all the places.
	But the horns, they're blowing that sound.
	Way on down south, To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	From west of the Rockies, call Art at 800-618-8255.
	International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country Sprint Access number, pressing Option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
	From coast to coast, and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	It is, and Professor James McCanney is my guest.
	Hope you all are having a good morning.
	Recently, a very important communications satellite just up and died.
	I think it was Starband America 7 just died.
	And the company said it's dead, it's gone forever.
	And they speculated that, well...
	Uh, perhaps a meteorite hit it, they said.
	Or, well, they just don't know.
	Could've been, I wonder if it could've been space junk.
	Anyway, something disposed of that satellite on the spot.
	I mean that baby is gone.
	Are you?
	I think yes it was America's 7, a Starband.
	They delivered an internet satellite to a group of people in the Northwest that had a lot of trees or whatever, obstructing their look at the Clark Belt.
	And it was in a very unusual orbit, 23,000, I think they said, 500 or 700 miles, I can't recall, but a slightly different orbit that allowed people in the Northwest to have a high look angle at the satellite.
	And that baby just disappeared about a week ago.
	It was really weird.
	James, and I was wondering, what are the odds of satellites getting taken out by, oh I don't know, meteorites, space junk, whatever?
	Well, there's two possibilities, and the thing we've seen in the past, when that Pager satellite went out, was that in the late 90s or early 2000s?
	I forget exactly when.
	Seems like yesterday, yes, all the Pagers went.
	Yeah, and that was known to be an electrical discharge that the military eventually determined came from Jupiter.
	In other words, we had an alignment with Jupiter, electrical, And they couldn't figure out where this electron beam came from, and ultimately the satellites, they put enough data together to determine that it was an interaction with Jupiter.
	Boy, have I never heard that before.
	I've never heard that.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, that was out of the... Can you tell me where that's reported?
	I certainly don't have it in front of me here, but I keep everything.
	So it's on file somewhere in my archives.
	That's quite remarkable.
	I would have thought that...
	An event of that magnitude and weirdness would have been very well reported.
	Yeah, it was.
	I don't know where my... I remember seeing it and I remember them talking about it and the type of measurements that were made to determine that.
	And they were known to be electrons.
	And since then, there's been a tremendous amount of study in the scientific journals and at scientific conferences to determine exactly the cause of what is known as spacecraft charging.
	In other words, spacecraft in outer space all of a sudden mysteriously become electrically charged.
	Always negatively, by the way.
	Oh, is that so?
	It's always negative, and the current belief amongst scientists in the industry is that electrons become embedded in the surface of the craft, but the actual situation is any object in a non-uniform plasma will charge negatively, and that's because of the simple fact That once it begins to discharge that plasma, the majority of the bulk current carrier is in the form of electrons because of the higher mobility, the lower mass of the electron relative to anything else that's charged out there.
	So electrons become the dominant charge carrier to discharge that plasma by way of whatever it is, the satellite, the comet nucleus, the space shuttle, uh... the earth in the sun's non-uniform capacitor whatever they always become negatively charged and that is a possibility with this increased solar activity and solar flaring we've seen that these satellites could be when we may see more of this as if the sun continues this this trend of uh... pumping out more and more energy and we begin to discharge this uh... in our own environment those um... those uh...
	Communication satellites, the ones in the Clark Belt, are in a region that's very near our outer shell of our magnetosphere.
	Remember we were talking a little while ago about not telling, because there wouldn't be any point?
	Give me an example of something that could occur, perhaps a body making its way into our system and causing havoc.
	Where it would be worthwhile to report what was about to happen in order to save lives.
	In other words, a limited catastrophic event, I guess.
	What do you envision?
	Well, let's put it this way.
	We need a lot of people on this planet to make it work.
	And we've seen events in the past.
	We know historically, of course, About events in the past that have really devastated Earth, and we've had to recover from this.
	The Egyptians told the ancient Greeks that there were five Earth-shattering events that took their civilizations to their knees, and then they had to rebuild five separate times.
	This is what the ancient priest cults told Solon when he went back to Egypt.
	Apparently these are recoverable, and I did a little briefing this morning getting ready for the show.
	I read your book, and in there both you and Whitley talked about these events are obviously recoverable.
	So if we knew something was coming, I'm certain we'd have a better recovery rate than if everybody were just blindsided.
	Give me an idea of what we might face, a recoverable scenario.
	What might a recoverable scenario be?
	Okay, let's take an example.
	A new comet comes in long in advance.
	Astronomers with their telescopes are able to determine that we are going to have a close encounter with an object that's The size of our moon, but this thing's going to be coming by not at the speed of our moon orbiting us, but at a very high velocity.
	All right.
	It's going to set a gravitational wave into the mantle of the Earth.
	It's going to cause tidal waves that are 50 to 100 feet above normal.
	And we know the path of this as it's going to pass over Earth.
	It's not going to collide with us.
	There will be some electrical discharge activity, possibly.
	Much of this will be absorbed in the upper atmosphere, but we will have some severe storming.
	Well, if you move the population away from the shores, 95% of Earth's population is near the shore, and we would lose that 95% if nobody said anything.
	Now, what's the recovery rate?
	Will people be able to move back there?
	Apparently the tact they're taking is that we don't want all these people moving out into the middle of nowhere and then not have any place to go.
	So would it possibly make sense to have some kind of pre-planned program around the world where on higher ground we have built giant domed structures and we could use these for for sporting events and other things when they're not in use for disaster?
	But to have a method where the cities can empty out Los Angeles up into the mountains of New Mexico.
	You know, and OK, we're going to house 10 million people for three weeks.
	And then we're going to have to figure out what to do with them.
	But set all this up, set provisions up, and OK, now we're done with it.
	We've used some resources.
	It's going to take us some resources, some time, some building.
	But now we've got this in place.
	And maybe it's not the cure-all.
	Maybe it won't bring us through every possible disaster.
	Sounds interesting, but with nothing but perhaps the Hopi lore and Indian lore to go on, I doubt that kind of expenditure would be made, and I'm sure you do too.
	Oh, exactly.
	I'm talking hypothetical.
	So once something like this was spotted, And that in itself is a very interesting question.
	How much notice might we have if something is spotted, something really big, and they do the calculations and they go, oh darn, you know, or some version of that, and they realize it's going to come very close.
	Yeah.
	And how much warning might we have?
	Well, there again, you could have a 10 years warning and people would just go, OK, well, and you know, such and such a time.
	You know, our Earth is based on a system of laws that are restrictive and they're not based on human responsibility.
	Would 10 years be very likely, really?
	We could possibly know, but see, in 10 years, what we've learned about comets, the big ones, is they change their orbits very rapidly because of the tremendous mass influx Comet Hale-Bopp was changing its orbit on a daily basis throughout its six-year period.
	The ephemeris was flashing up faster than you could download it off the internet.
	Yes, being affected gravitationally tugged this way and that way, I suppose.
	Well, it's the tail drag, and that's part of the comet tail drag.
	When Hale-Bopp first came in, I remember Brian Marsden put out a posting.
	He's at the Smithsonian.
	He does the calculation, the orbital calculation, and posts them.
	He said, this comet is so big that there's no way it's going to have any jetting activity that will affect, perturb its orbit.
	And I, of course, like I say of everything, I copied that.
	And no sooner than they had, they posted the initial ephemeris, then it started changing.
	I remember that changing, too.
	Weird.
	It was a daily basis.
	I mean, we pulled those things down.
	Like I say, as soon as you got one, the next one was up.
	And that's due to the tail drag.
	And the nucleus was so large that jetting, this ice jetting concept, could not possibly account for that.
	But anyway, the bottom line is, Big comets change their orbits rapidly.
	I'm trying to remember, how much notice of Hillbop did we have?
	We knew about it, how soon?
	Well, it was probably three years before it actually rounded the Sun.
	So you're suggesting something perhaps much bigger could give us as much as 10 years warning.
	They'd see it that far out.
	Yeah, and especially with this new equipment they're putting up there.
	If they did get something like that, how long would it be?
	In other words, I think when they first look at an object's trajectory, they get sort of alarm bells that go off if it's headed toward our vicinity.
	Right.
	A couple of times I remember scientists issuing warnings that something might hit or could hit and then Revised that.
	Oh, I don't know, you know, a few months later they suddenly, or even a week later, they suddenly revise it and say, no, no, no.
	Thought it might, but it's not going to hit.
	Right.
	So obviously there's refinements going on.
	So at the 10-year mark, it might be a little far out to say exactly.
	Mightn't it?
	Right.
	In fact, the very interesting point is when Hale-Bopp was first discovered, it was on a near direct collision course with Earth.
	And I knew the guys, I was in a little more conversant mode at that time with the guys at Goddard, and I called up and I heard this activity in the background, and obviously at that time they knew that it was on a very close path to Earth.
	Well, in that three or four year period, It slowed down to the point where we moved ahead three months in our expected position, and we were literally a quarter of the way around our orbit by the time Hale-Bopp passed through.
	But it passed through, if you look at our orbit as a circle on a flat piece of paper with the sun at the center.
	You're saying it passed through our orbit?
	It passed one million miles to the sunward side.
	No, I think it was beyond our orbit.
	So it was a little bit beyond Earth's orbit, but only a million miles, only four times the distance to the moon did that comet pass.
	And even if you don't believe my, say, concept of electrical discharges and all of that, that would have been a close passage.
	And we would have spent about 20 days in the coma of that large comet.
	That's how long it would have taken us to pass through the coma.
	In other words, we would have lost our sunlight, we would have had an influx of water, and possibly a mini ice age as a result of that.
	We would have lost our sunlight?
	Yes.
	And an influx of water from that comet coma.
	No kidding.
	And probably other pollutants, whatever was in the comet tail.
	And Hillbop was a bigger comet, much more powerful than, say, Halley's Comet in 1910.
	Earth passed through the tail of Halley's Comet with relatively no effect.
	But passing through the coma of Hale-Bopp would have been a very different story.
	Why?
	What's so different?
	Because it was huge!
	The coma of Hale-Bopp, I believe, was about 20 million miles across.
	So the time it would have taken us to pass through that... And you're saying it was thick enough it would have actually stopped our sunlight?
	Yes.
	And so, and if you look at the temperature loss of Earth, say, just as we go around in the night time, we drop 12 degrees in the night.
	Oh, yes.
	Oh, it would bring on many changes.
	Yes.
	So, at any rate, and you know, interesting, I watched the movie today, too, once again, The Day After Tomorrow, and it's very similar things, and that's one thing We probably haven't discovered all of the triggers that trigger this weather.
	Would you say that's correct?
	Oh, absolutely.
	We are just beginning to open that kind of Pandora's box.
	I don't know.
	Is it additional activity from the sun?
	Is it within our own Earth?
	I don't know that anybody knows the answers to these things, really.
	I'm just noting what's going on.
	Right, exactly.
	So what triggers these events?
	So that could possibly be one of them.
	Well, look, I would note this, Professor, they don't...
	You know, there are enormous weather changes going on right now in the Orient and, oh, in Europe, gigantic weather changes, and they're hardly being reported here.
	I know.
	Did you see the straight-line winds that came out of Slovakia, was it?
	Yes.
	And not a word here.
	I know.
	Similar vein, last November 31st, the governor of Florida proclaimed the hurricane season over.
	And at the same day, Hurricane, was it Nan Madol, moved into the Philippines and killed 10,000 people.
	In the Philippines, a typhoon, of course.
	A typhoon, yes.
	And so if it doesn't happen to us right here in the United States, it's not reported.
	I know, but you've got to note that these changes are global changes, and if these things are occurring in Europe and Asia, they're going to occur here to a lesser or greater degree.
	At some point they're going to occur here, and to some degree they already are.
	I just wonder why the press is so quiet on all of this.
	Well, there again, I think there is an edict that has come down, don't talk about bad things.
	Well, listen, a large planetary body headed our way would definitely fall into that category.
	The problem is, of course, all the astronomers can see it and would catch on to it, and the buzz in the astronomical community would be astronomical.
	Well, you would think so, but I think also a lot of the observations are filtered.
	And I've come to learn that more and more that when you get to the big facilities and anybody, for example, there was a guy in Arizona this past year, he started putting public time out on a 32 inch telescope.
	And all of a sudden it was not long until that became very Difficult to get time, and it was all of a sudden captivated by professional astronomers.
	If you have a decent telescope or observational setup, you are going to be wrapped up very quickly, and your information flow is going to be wrapped up very quickly.
	That just seems to be the way it is.
	So this idea of, if they're not going to report here about these winds in Slovakia, Yes.
	Or a typhoon in the Philippines.
	That was my larger point.
	Then what makes you think that... They're going to tell you about something bigger.
	Yes.
	My guess would be they wouldn't.
	Right.
	And this has come over and I know astronomers go, oh, we would certainly tell everybody right away.
	Well, I'm sorry, but I don't see it that way.
	Or it would be spun very differently by our government if they had no choice but to comment.
	They'd find a spin for it that would keep everybody calm.
	Right, and that's part of what I think was actually planned, this information about, say, Planet X, to desensitize the public to those issues.
	Could be.
	Interesting point of view about Planet X and all the publicity going around it.
	to desensitize us?
	Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh You don't have to go
	Oh, oh, oh, oh You don't have to go
	Oh, oh, oh, oh You don't have to go
	I, I, I, I, I All those tears I cried
	I, I, I, I All those tears I cried
	Oh, oh, I, I Baby, please don't go
	Oh, oh, I, I, I Oh, the night is my world
	City lights, painted girls In the day, nothing matters
	In the night, time doesn't matter In the night, no control
	Through the wall, something's breaking Wearing white as you're walking
	Down the street, hope not so long You take my self, you take my self-control
	You got me living only for the night Before the morning comes, the story's told
	You take my self, you take my self-control Another night, another day goes by
	I never stop myself to wonder why You have to forget to play my role
	You take my self, you take my self-control To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code
	7.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
	International callers may reach Art by calling your in-country Sprint Access number, pressing Option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
	From coast to coast, and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM, with Art Bell.
	Certainly is.
	Professor James McKinney is my guest.
	You know, Hollywood has dealt with this sort of thing a number of times, of course.
	And by that I mean an object detected by some either professional or amateur astronomer.
	And by the way, a lot of these things are frequently found by the amateurs.
	And then, of course, they're immediately, hopefully, subjected to professional scrutiny.
	And they go from there.
	And, you know, in the Hollywood movies, of course, it always turns out to be A planet crushing size something or another headed directly for us.
	And then there are various scenarios in which NASA gets involved and astronauts go up with hydrogen bombs and digging materials and that sort of thing and land on the object and get it to miss Earth.
	And I wonder if Professor McKinney thinks these are Likely scenario, should we detect something like that headed toward us.
	uh... by the way distinct possibility i think uh... we've all seen the hollywood deal with this
	scenario uh...
	You know, we detected the big fright is on, it would end all life on the earth.
	How's an object like that could do?
	Is what you've seen Hollywood do, doable?
	I mean, if we had a few years notice, James, is something like that doable or is that too big a question for you?
	And I'm talking about mounting an effort with a craft.
	We did go to the moon, although I think we've junked most of our ability to do that.
	We did go to the moon, so one would think in a crash kind of way we could put together something or another that would go out and do as they did in the movies and I don't know, drill or put H-bombs on it, or change the orbit, or do something to save the Earth.
	Could it be done?
	Well, I think it's the initial idea that we're looking for ideas, and there are serious scientists looking at these ideas.
	Most people probably agree that you don't want to blow the thing up.
	I've heard that, yes.
	Then you'd get a whole lot of... Then you'd get a lot of pieces.
	And that's probably, and they're in uncontrollable paths at that point.
	So I think where we're going to end up with all this, my own futuristic projection, is that eventually we're going to detect these things far enough out with these search programs, and we're going to catalog enough of them to where we have, say, 95% of them cataloged, to where we would know many years in advance and also just the there's two parts of prediction one is knowing where this thing is in its exact velocity and direction the second thing is having the computing power to determine that orbit out ten years and both those things are extremely difficult and really not within our current capabilities.
	If something was two years from hitting us That's getting into the realm of where we can predict an orbit.
	Okay, good.
	Good, because I'm trying to set up a scenario to draw the answer from you.
	Right.
	Okay, now, then the question is, what are we going to do?
	That's my question.
	Blow it up.
	Here's my scenario.
	And this is based on my own model for comet behavior in the solar capacitor.
	You take a tether, which would either be a carbon fiber or some other conductive fiber, and you Run a cord out in the anti-solar direction away from the sun, you know, a hundred thousand miles.
	And basically you initiate the discharge of the solar capacitor.
	What that's going to do is cause a negative charge to build up on that object.
	It's going to draw in material from the environment to land on it.
	And that tail drag is going to change its orbit.
	So a very non-intrusive way, you keep the object intact and you alter its orbit.
	uh... and by that method in if we knew two years three years four years in advance
	you could alter that orbit slowly over the course of those two years to where
	it would not have a lot that would have to be something that you would
	test before you would expend the effort to do it and that's the first calls
	it seems to me would be uh... i don't know maybe to put jet engines on it or rocket
	engines on it would more appropriately and uh...
	actually uh... thrusted out of our way out I mean, something.
	Right, and there again, now, the use of ion engines has been used successfully with, you know, could we build an ion engine big enough to move one of these Hulks Around, and the answer possibly is yes.
	So that's a great potential plan there.
	You would have serious control over it.
	The answer is possibly yes.
	Yeah, the answer is possibly yes, which brings up a whole other scenario.
	Let's look way into the future to the point where we go out and we start, say we want Venus to have a moon.
	Because we know it'll create a magnetic field there and condition that planet for future life or whatever.
	We're starting to construct solar systems.
	Yes, there are those who say that our moon... Is this true or false, by the way?
	Our moon is necessary to life on Earth.
	Oh, absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	Yeah, the situation with magnetic fields, and this is empirical and it's been known for a long time, that the Planets with moons have magnetic fields.
	The planets without significant moons do not have significant magnetic fields.
	In fact, the planetomagnetic fields are proportional to the moons around them.
	And you see that.
	So then we could, in effect, terraform a planet by inserting a moon in orbit around it.
	Exactly.
	And so how would we do that?
	We would spirit an object from maybe the Kuiper belt, and say, we want to take this, this is a good candidate for a moon for Venus, and we're going to move it in here, and here's how we're going to do it.
	And it's going to take some, just like NASA, say the ISEE-3 satellite had almost no fuel on it, and they moved this around the moon and Earth, and they swung this thing back and forth, who knows how many, 20 times maybe.
	To finally get it out to where they could sling it out to go to a comet.
	Well, that was a planned trajectory, knowing all of these energy transfers that I was talking about before, where that gained energy, and we threw it out, and by the same reverse process, very intricate path where this thing is captured through the solar system with maybe just a small nudge out there, to nudge it into the right direction, and we would create a moon around Venus.
	Just for example.
	So, where is this all leading?
	Would we, you know, and would it all start by this business of moving asteroids around so we don't get labeled with one of these things?
	Maybe you can comment on something that to me struck, oh I don't know, it struck me as absolutely nutty at the time, but there was a serious proposal in NASA Which, I guess, was to address the ugly prospects of global warming.
	It was suggested inside NASA that you could actually move the planet Earth, he he he, by nudging an object into a close pass with Earth, which would perturb our orbit, move us farther away from the sun, and give us an ever better climate.
	And then, when the sun's activity changed again, and things cooled down, we'd bring another object close to us, and, you know, like a little game of 8-ball, we'd put the Earth right back where she is right now.
	Had you heard about that?
	I had not.
	Really?
	I had not heard about that one.
	Your impression?
	Not a real good idea.
	Well, I don't think we're quite ready for that, at least quite yet.
	The passage of something big enough to move Earth in its orbit... You know, it hit me just the same way.
	Just the same way.
	I said, somehow I don't think this sounds like a good idea.
	No, and that object would be discharging the solar capacitor.
	Our total interaction would not be beneficial if we ever did come out of it.
	I'd say the downside of that would be far greater than any benefit that you might gain out of it.
	It wouldn't be like Earth would be unaffected, we'd be nicely moved over here, and we'd be a nice, cooler environment.
	By the way, on the issue of global warming, I have a feeling too, and this is just a possible scenario that I've thought of, That, of course, we had an ice age back then.
	We could be just on the upward trough of a warming trend to get back to normal.
	And that's the heating we're seeing, the so-called heating of the Earth, along with other factors.
	We don't know the contribution of all of these factors, and people are weighing them out right now.
	But the question is, what are all the factors that are involved in what we call climate?
	Not to mention that our sun is kicking up, you know, so I don't think anybody has the overall, what we call, energy equation to really understand what's going on with Earth.
	Apparently not.
	To do something like that based on one concept, we better know what we're doing first, I guess is what I'm saying.
	I'm all for that.
	Let's allow a few people to ask questions.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Professor McKinney.
	Hi.
	Hi Art, it's good to talk to you.
	I'm a police officer in southeast Missouri, and I was talking to a fellow deputy in an adjoining county, and he had said that about Tuesday, he was out patrolling around and saw a real bright meteor, and it had a tail on it that lasted in the air for about four minutes.
	He said it burned in the air.
	He said that at first there were flashes of blue light, and then there was the meteor, and then it separated.
	This sounds very much like the reports we're getting, breaking news from China, about something, they call it a UFO, but something.
	He said that that's what it looked like to him was a meteor shower.
	Can I verify that you said four minutes?
	That's what he said, and it's a long time.
	At the time, hang on just a second please.
	Okay, no, you go right ahead.
	Obviously he's in the middle of being called, and he's having to do his job.
	I'm sorry, I've got to talk to him for a second.
	He said that it lasted about four minutes, and I didn't believe him at the time.
	But once you told me that a satellite went dead, it kind of made sense then.
	Okay, all right.
	Thank you very much.
	I don't know if the two are related.
	Yes, America 7 just went, it disappeared.
	Great.
	Very, very strange indeed.
	And of course, the news about China this morning, and how often James, are we getting bombarded?
	I mean, we do get an awful lot of reports like this.
	Great.
	We're being bombarded constantly, aren't we?
	Yeah, and if I'm not mistaken, I haven't looked at the meteor stream activity lately, but I thought we were supposed to be in one here in December, and I can't...somebody might correct me on that.
	I think that's right.
	No, I think that is correct.
	One that would last four minutes kind of stumps me.
	That would mean it would be going almost the same velocity as Earth.
	That's a long time to just stay up there, you know, and illuminate.
	Yes, well, one part of this that's frankly always puzzled me tremendously, Professor, is that No matter what it is and how odd it seems to be, whether it lasts for four minutes or if it occasionally even stops and hovers and then continues and crashes to earth, they always classify them as meteors.
	Right.
	And I don't know how they can know that until they find whatever it is that came down and actually look at it and say, oh, look, a meteor.
	Right.
	Right.
	And tracing a meteor is very, very difficult.
	You need multiple observations that are very accurate and usually somebody like this is out in the middle of the country and they see a streak across the sky and there's no real reference frame with say trees or horizon.
	So finding an object, sometimes rarely they do, but usually they don't.
	Professor, interesting question.
	If we have a fairly large object enter the atmosphere, and a substantial portion of it makes it to the ground, is there any possibility that if there is biology carried on these rocks, or whatever they turn out to be, That when cracked open, when they hit the Earth, once it passed through the atmosphere, some biological entity that's never been on Earth before now is.
	That is a serious problem.
	In fact, this whole issue of contamination, it goes along with space junk and space pollution, which are actual objects like rocket bolts and Fuel jettison from rockets and shrouds and all of this, and that's what you originally started talking about when we were talking about the Starband going down.
	Yes, that's right.
	Which is a possibility, and then there's all of this stuff that's floating around out there.
	But in the medical journals, I mean this is, medical doctors have been studying this for a long time, that a number of things they are fairly convinced that comet tails are production areas for viruses.
	Right.
	And that's one issue.
	The other is... Aren't we about to go chase a comet tail?
	Well, it already happened, and it's one of my personal campaigns to stop this cross-pollination in space.
	Now, the Stardust mission went through Comet Wild 2 tail, trapped all this material, and it's headed back to Earth to be brought into the atmosphere this coming summer.
	Now, I believe it's this summer.
	But anyway, we just had a spacecraft called Genesis that was out monitoring the solar environment for a couple years.
	They brought that back in, and it ended up in thousands of pieces in the middle of the Utah desert.
	I'm not sure that I like the name Genesis with respect to something bringing back biological samples.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Because the point is, the medical journals, the respected medical journals have documented this, Since the Chinese were recording this back in the 1200s, they have noted that the flus have come with the inferior conjunction of Venus, which means that Venus has a tail, like a magneto tail, so to speak, that we pass through and pick up some viruses, you know, that are trapped in that, almost like a comet tail behind Venus.
	And this is very well noticed.
	It's also very well documented in the astrophysics journals that with the inferior conjunction of Venus, that's when it passes between us and the Sun, that the solar activity, the sunspot count goes up.
	Always.
	So there's something going on there.
	But the point is, we should not, absolutely should not be bringing stuff back into this planet from outer space. We should have a space lab where this
	stuff is examined.
	But please, don't bring it here.
	How big a concern should it be?
	I know the concern about the cross-contamination of Mars when we...
	Absolutely.
	It goes the other way.
	They've already been sending a number of spacecraft that were not necessarily decontaminated, or it's something they didn't think of.
	They're thinking of it now.
	But they're talking about bringing back some Mars materials as well.
	Right.
	And you just mentioned we've got the comet stuff on the way back.
	How cautious should we be with this stuff?
	Well, we literally should not be bringing it back at all.
	In the Genesis spacecraft, as an example, I saw a picture of a guy in bib overalls bending over the Genesis spacecraft, pulling stuff out of it.
	Really?
	Really.
	This guy, you know, who hired him?
	Oh, look, Harry, that thing's green!
	Well, wait!
	Hey, Harry, it's moving!
	Does it have a face?
	Oh, my God.
	What do we do with it?
	I don't know, I'll put it in my coveralls here.
	What a world we live in, huh?
	Good morning, everybody, in the nighttime, which is where we do our very best work.
	This is Coast to Coast AM and I'm Art Bell.
	This is Coast to Coast AM and I'm Art Bell.
	What's a bottom?
	What's a bottom?
	Something took me out of my world.
	I woke up.
	Suddenly I just woke up.
	What happened?
	When you find that you let the future be.
	You gotta tell the love you're taking.
	And you better beware.
	One day you're old.
	One day you're old.
	You turn around.
	You turn around.
	You find your world.
	You find your world.
	You turn it down.
	You turn it down.
	It'll happen to me.
	And it can happen to you, too.
	I want to know.
	I've got to know.
	I still love you.
	I feel right at the top of the world.
	It happens.
	Suddenly it just happens.
	To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	From west of the Rockies, call Art at 800-618-8255.
	is area code 775-727-1222. To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free
	at 800-825-5033. From west of the Rockies, call Art at 800-618-8255.
	International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your...
	I wonder whatever happened to Billy Goodman anyway.
	number pressing option 5 and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
	From coast to coast and worldwide on the Internet this is Coast to Coast
	AM with Art Bell.
	In recognition of Billy Goodman, I wonder what I wonder whatever happened to Billy
	Goodman anyway, he once did a talk show very much like this one concurrent with
	this one many many years ago in Las Vegas.
	And, uh, I sort of lost track of Billy.
	I have no idea where he is.
	Heard he was in the New England area some years ago, but other than that, totally lost track of him.
	Talk about coincidence.
	We're talking about meteors and comets and so forth, and it turns out, apparently, we are dead in the middle of a meteor shower right now.
	That's right.
	right now my guest is uh... dr
	james mccanney Doctor, you know, you're talking about a new telescope they're going to send into space in 2008, I guess.
	What about the Hubble?
	Can you give us the latest on the Hubble?
	The Hubble was in trouble and was going to be de-orbited.
	And I have a lot of questions about the Hubble, too, that you probably can't answer, but I'd love to pepper you with them anyway.
	Like, why did they never look at the Moon?
	Why did they never look at Mars?
	A lot of things.
	What's the current state of the Hubble?
	Do you know?
	Well, the Hubble, of course, is a premier astronomical instrument because it's out of the atmosphere.
	Yes.
	It has a wide range of capabilities.
	It has planetary cameras.
	It has cameras for deep space observation.
	It had a new camera placed in it a couple years ago.
	And they're not going to let it go.
	It can sit where it's sitting.
	For some time, I've offered to take it off their hands.
	For amateurs, I don't think that's going to happen.
	What's the current state?
	I mean, it's going to be alright where it is?
	Yeah, they have a window.
	The idea was, of course, that the shuttle would go up and service it.
	Now there's a number of proposals on the table.
	One is to use robotics Canadian firm has a two armed robot that can go up and they claim could do all of the servicing required.
	Another one is the space habitat that is at the Bigelow Aerospace, I believe, out of California has a space habitat and they say they can go up and kind of park next to it.
	And allow astronauts to stay there temporarily while they go over and then service the telescope.
	So there's a number of things they're looking at, but they don't have any solutions at this point.
	Which probably brings up the point that in the future, when they build things, they should build them to be serviced robotically.
	Okay, and the other question is, when they did have it going, why didn't they ever point it at the moon, do you know?
	Well, they did.
	And I thought it was really comical one day because we were asking that to have them photograph particular things on the moon.
	And they said, well, we can't point it at the moon because it's too bright.
	I remember that.
	That's what I remember.
	Yes.
	And then one guy, a young strapping astronomer, got his hands on the Hubble one day, pointed it at the moon, took a picture of the full moon.
	And printed it on the internet.
	And it was just, we all had a good laugh over it, but... Did he get in trouble?
	Yeah.
	He realized that he shouldn't do that.
	They've taken pictures of Mars, for example.
	There are pictures on the internet that show a hurricane on Mars.
	Right up near the polar cap.
	Very clear, 100% distinct pictures.
	They have pictures of Pluto.
	And this is where I learned the resolution, the true resolution of the Hubble.
	The planet Pluto, which of course is, oh, very small, had something like, what, 93 pixels across the planetary surface, to the point where you could see structure on the planet Pluto.
	So this tells you the resolving power of the Hubble.
	And so if you pointed that to other objects in the solar system, then you could in fact determine What you could see with the Hubble and what we get is a very, let's say, filtered view of what the Hubble is seeing.
	All right, back to the phones.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Professor McKinney.
	Hello.
	Hey Art, this is Carl.
	I'm listening to you on XM Satellite Radio Channel 165.
	Yes sir.
	Let me give you some air horn.
	Thank you.
	We're talking about the meteor showers and I knew by listening to last night's show to be on the lookout for some Meteors tonight.
	I saw one.
	It did not have any hang time at all.
	It felt like a stone straight down.
	And I was just wondering if you could ask your guest, does he have any good stories about buildings being damaged by meteors and why we don't hear more about them and how often that happens?
	And I'm wondering even how many, okay, good question, how many even make it to the ground percentage-wise?
	Yeah, most of them did not make it to the ground, but about a year ago we had a series Over Spain, one blew up in midair, and pieces of it came down through people's houses.
	There was a house in Denver that ended up in some girl's bedroom or something.
	I think it plopped right onto her bed, if I remember correctly.
	Right.
	And there were two meteors that broke up, meteorites I guess you would call them, over Denver at the same time.
	And then there was an unconfirmed report last February when I was down in Las Vegas myself and at the time a report came in of a lady who was at a talk I was giving and she was from Peru and she said her relatives had just called her and told of one that had crashed near Cusco.
	And it was a big one.
	So we could never quite confirm that one.
	She had said, and this was just kind of out of the blue, she was not a scientist or anything.
	She's just a lady in the crowd and happened to mention this.
	But, and of course, the Earth is a big place with a lot of open space and lots of oceans.
	So there's probably stuff that's fallen that we simply don't know about.
	But it seemed that there was a kind of a splash of this about a year ago.
	Well, again, I'm concerned about whether biology could make it down intact, and apparently the answer to that question is yes.
	The answer is yes, and how it has contributed potentially to things on Earth is hard to say, but eventually that stuff could crawl out of there, or seep out, whatever, into the air and contaminate the local environment.
	So absolutely, especially the bigger the piece, The more possibility that something's trapped deep inside where it would not get as hot.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor McKinney.
	Hello.
	Yes, Art.
	This is Bob in Houston.
	Hi, Bob.
	Hi.
	As Shoemaker-Levy struck Jupiter, the comet struck Jupiter in a series of strikes, the book of Revelation seems to predict a series of four objects hitting the Earth, and now my question is, is it possible Physically possible for objects to strike the Earth, like Shoemaker-Levy did, to increase the Earth's rotation by a third, because it also seems to predict that the day will be shortened by a third, to where we'll have like a 60-hour day.
	Well, check me if I'm wrong here, Professor, but I believe if the objects like Shoemaker-Levy had instead hit Earth, we would not be here right now.
	We would be as extinct as the dinosaurs.
	Yeah, in 21 Hits Like That, there's a series of potholes in, I think, South Carolina, and I can't remember what they're called, but famous, and they're kind of at a long, they're long kind of elliptical holes in the ground, and they're in a marshy area, and it's believed that that was actually a strike, kind of a mini-strike of objects coming in from outer space, and it's not confirmed.
	But obviously, Earth has been hit by things before.
	I want to reiterate that we don't always have to be hit by things for damage to occur, what I call action at a distance.
	So if we have a big object moving by, it can do a tremendous amount of damage and not hit us.
	Got it.
	All right.
	First time caller line, your turn with Professor James McKinney.
	Hello.
	Yes.
	Hello.
	This is Janna, and we're traveling on Interstate 40 tonight.
	Okay.
	And we have seen 31 meteorites tonight.
	Holy mackerel.
	Well, it's well underway, right?
	How timely can you get?
	I know, unbelievable.
	Where's Interstate 31?
	We've seen 31 meteorites.
	We thought they were falling stars.
	So we got to 10 or 12, and it's like, okay, these are not falling stars.
	Okay, so you're geographically where again, please?
	Okay, we were driving from Little Rock, Arkansas to Nashville, Tennessee on Interstate 40.
	There you are, James.
	Alright, and so in the back of my mind, I didn't want to say it, but I thought we were Close to a meteor stream time of year.
	Apparently right in the middle of it.
	Yeah.
	So this is certainly timely.
	Timely.
	And if there's anybody in the northern states, we should have a pretty good auroral display going tonight.
	Oh?
	So they might be getting a double show up there.
	Well, there certainly has been, thank you very much, plenty of aurora lately.
	As you pointed out, we went through quite a very anomalous period with the sun when we just had tremendous number of flares.
	And a very great deal of aurora that went very far south, right?
	Right.
	And those are the big ones.
	Those are the powerful ones.
	When you look at the earth from a satellite, it looks like a donut sitting up on the polar region of the north and south polar region.
	And it kind of lobs to one side, usually away from where the sun is.
	But when that donut extends down to lower latitudes, that's when the energy of those incoming particles increases.
	Okay.
	Let's go back, not very far, Professor, to the gigantic flare we had that, oh God, they didn't, I don't know what they settled on.
	X-48, I mean it went clean and clear off the scale.
	Yes.
	So large, they'd never seen anything like it.
	The meters weren't, the satellites weren't calibrated to even measure anything this big.
	If that had hit the Earth, what would have happened?
	Well, and this again, I just want to reiterate that the X-Class flare, there was no X-Class in the mid-90s.
	The X-Class was actually added to allow for what they thought were the bigger flares then, and this is off-scale.
	Yes.
	But a direct hit with one of those Uh, would very likely take out our grid system, and this is the thing I always try and impress on you.
	You mean the whole power grid?
	Right, and the thing is, if that surge would go through the equipment and fry a bunch of our grid equipment, the components I'm talking about, the transformers primarily are the ones that would go.
	the here's what would happen we wouldn't have the electricity to start to rebuild
	that on a timely scale we just don't have the backup equipment
	so it would be it would really shut everything down worldwide
	uh... communications everything everything depends on electricity you
	couldn't pump gas uh...
	just imagine the world without electricity well we weren't really
	exactly told what the consequences would be i mean this was
	something that really happen and just by chance it
	It was pointed off in a different direction.
	Right.
	But, you know, because they understood so little about the magnitude of it, since we've never seen anything like that before, we didn't exactly explain what would have happened if it had been pointed at us.
	I mean, now that's a realistic possibility.
	So you're saying all the electricity, the grids, all of it would go down worldwide?
	And fry it.
	It could very well just fry those components.
	But not just the sun's side, but worldwide?
	Yeah, because the surge is all over.
	It's the surge in the ground.
	We base our transmission system on the ground.
	What about our computers?
	Well, there again, anything connected to that at the time, just like in the Northeast, when that surge came down from Canada in August, was it August of What year was that?
	What was it, Montreal?
	Yeah.
	Somewhere back east, I believe.
	That's one thing they didn't talk about is the incredible amount of equipment loss.
	But interestingly, Professor, that was somewhat of a regional event.
	Right.
	How was that able to manifest?
	Why just one city?
	Well, when they knew it was happening, then they were able, on the grid, they can shut off, they can turn off those grid elements from affecting the other ones, and eventually they contained it.
	Right, but if something is of the magnitude to destroy a grid, as it did in Eastern Canada, why wouldn't that magnitude be much wider spread, more dispersed, and hit everything at once?
	I mean, to have such a regional event surprised me.
	Right, right.
	And those have happened before.
	One thing I do have very intimate contact with is the power grid.
	I'm in a position where I'm able to get information on it across the country on a continual basis.
	And I remember in, I think about 1998, we were sitting monitoring the grid.
	And it started in Roswell, New Mexico, and it ended up being a 14-state power outage that ended up in Vancouver.
	I recall that, too.
	Yeah.
	And it started in Roswell.
	Of course we're joking.
	But again, the center of my question, and if you can't answer it, just say you don't know, is why just Montreal?
	Or whatever?
	In other words, it seems like it would be a global event, or at least half the globe.
	If we're dealing with a solar flare, you mean?
	Yes, yes, yes.
	So how does a solar flare become so specific That it just whacks one area?
	Well now, that day in Montreal was not a solar condition.
	That was well confirmed that the sun was very normal that day.
	Oh?
	And I've talked about this quite a bit.
	So the sun didn't do that?
	No, the sun did not do that and there were some guys playing with some ion Towers up there, they were drilling up to the ionosphere electrically and had a little oops, basically.
	Oh, see, I've never heard that.
	Yeah, and basically they were, the whole scenario that day, what happened was about a month earlier they tried it and they were using power from the Canadian grid and they didn't have enough power to drill up in through the atmosphere to the ionosphere.
	It's using a It's a cyclic low-frequency tower, about 40 Hz, and it takes a tremendous amount of power to flip the dipole in the atmosphere all the way up.
	This is Tesla-like stuff.
	It sounds like HAARP-like stuff.
	Well, yes.
	Tesla technology.
	And so what they did is, that day, they started borrowing power off the grid from the New York region.
	And that's what the engineers all talked about.
	They saw the power moving off the various branches of the grid going up into Canada.
	And then the surge came down.
	Boom.
	And it backed up nine nuclear reactors on the East Coast.
	That's how much power came down from Canada that day.
	Wow.
	Nine nuclear reactors were backed up.
	Now that's like having a locomotive the size of You know, larger than any locomotive.
	And you're telling me this was some guys experimenting?
	At a base near, up in Kanata, was the place.
	Kanata?
	Kanata, near, yeah, in Canada.
	It's north of New York City, by Ottawa.
	And they were doing ionospheric experiments?
	A little test, yeah.
	A little test.
	And the trouble is when you... I'm familiar with the ionic research going on and people don't understand the power that's locked in that ionosphere because they only see the trickle current that's coming down through the atmosphere at a given time.
	And so they think that there is a small amount of charge.
	There's a tremendous amount of charge up there.
	And once you burrow into it, that whole capacitor is going to unload down the pipe that you drilled.
	And that's what happened.
	And that's what happened to Montreal, huh?
	Yeah, the amount of power that it took to do that is incomprehensible.
	Yes, it is.
	That is absolutely incredible.
	See, I hadn't heard any of that.
	So what happened to these experimenters?
	Well, there was a British-American base up there as far as I can make out at Kanata.
	There's an underground, kind of like an Area 51 base up there.
	Oh, no kidding.
	And it's I don't know internally what happened, but I would say somebody probably told them to be a little more careful in the future.
	But there's a whole series of control electronics you need on that to prevent that from happening, and apparently they didn't have any of that.
	Remarkable stuff, and I've certainly never heard any of this before.
	So, it wasn't the sun that got Montreal, but it was some experimenters at the equivalent of an Area 51 in Canada.
	Oh my.
	Only here, only on Coast to Coast AM.
	One of these days, something's gonna come whizzing down like you see in our skies tonight.
	And just like magic, we're gonna find out... Like magic... It'll be alive.
	A living thing.
	And you, and you see the same thing You don't need, no I don't need
	Higher and higher, baby It's a living thing
	It's a terrible thing I don't want your lonely mansion with a tear in every room
	Oh All I want's the love you promised beneath the hallowed moon.
	happy with your money and your name and hide myself in sorrow
	while you play your cheating game Silver threads and golden needles
	cannot mend this heart of mine and I dare not drown my sorrow
	in the warm water wise but you think I should be happy
	with your money and your name and hide myself in sorrow
	while you play your cheating game To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at
	The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
	International callers may reach Art by calling your in-country Sprint Access number,
	pressing option 5, and dialing toll free, 800-893-0903.
	From coast to coast, and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	Boy, can you imagine being that young astronomer staring into the night sky?
	Bye.
	And suddenly focusing on some giant, black, tumbling thing.
	First one to find it, there it is.
	and baby it's headed straight this way.
	I know it's a frightening scenario, no question about it.
	The black, tumbling, evil thing headed straight for us, but the fact of the matter is, we actually appropriate a cosmically tiny amount of money to look for anything that might be headed our way.
	Isn't that true, Professor?
	Yes, it's astounding.
	And the little scenario you gave, the amateur discovers this, puts it out on the internet.
	This actually happened this past year.
	So we have these amateur astronomers doing hand calculations trying to figure out the orbit.
	And on the top of Haleakala over there in Maui, Hawaii, we have the most advanced supercomputer center on the planet hooked up to all those telescopes.
	And I could never figure out why isn't this information coming to us from them?
	Well, I guess they would only serve a confirmatory role.
	In other words, such large facilities would be unlikely to find something like that headed toward us.
	They're generally targeting things that scientists have submitted as their plan for the telescope, and that's how they get the time, or however it works.
	But they're not looking for stuff headed toward us.
	That's going to be more likely found by an amateur, right?
	Well, possibly, because there are so many amateurs looking around, but they do have Search programs.
	They're the Amos group of telescopes and there's other ones around the world that are, that's their job is to look for, you know, that they're automated.
	All they do is look for, you know, unidentified objects floating around.
	Yes.
	You're right though.
	We spend incredibly small amount of money on, and I think A lot of scientists agree that a lot of our space dollars are misspent.
	Or, if we're going to spend some money on what they're putting it into, let's have more money so we can do more of, say, the unmanned robotic type of thing.
	Well, I can assure you that after we're hit by something large, the survivors would appropriate more money.
	Yeah, but don't we have foresight?
	Have we lost that, you know, we're supposedly intelligent beings, and we know this now.
	Well, it's controversial in itself.
	Yeah, but... Yes, after they hit, then we'd appropriate quite a bit of money for it, realize it was an important thing.
	Everybody, we'd have a 100% vote in Congress on that.
	Oh, absolutely.
	What was left of them, yes.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Professor McKinney.
	Hi.
	Hi, good morning, gentlemen.
	How are you?
	Okay, where are you?
	My name's Derek, I'm calling from Kansas.
	Okay, Derek, what's up?
	I have a question.
	In the extreme unlikely event that somebody would happen to think they stumbled upon something like that, is there any tell-tale characteristics that a person could do or task to determine that it may be not terrestrial?
	Actually, we went over this in our first hour and Yes, there's all kinds of tests that can be run.
	Right, Professor?
	Looking at some object that gets to Earth, and they look at it at the micro level, and they do counts, and they can figure out it's not from Earth, right?
	Right.
	In the cataloging of whether it's a true meteorite that was originally a piece of rock out there, with the metals or other crystal and composition whatever but as opposed to what we were talking about the first hour was literally pieces of apparently alien produced materials that were part of a spaceship or whatever but there are searches also that go on and of course this was one of the big controversies that have come up from time to time there were some
	Amateur astronomers with radio telescopes who claim to have locked in on a water signal that was being used, a water frequency I should say, that was being used to transmit what they believed were intelligent signals.
	But back to the material coming into Earth, apparently from your first hour and what Whitley and Dr. Lear were saying, There's a very closed-lipped group of people who manage this stuff, and when you get into that arena, put on your seatbelt.
	It certainly sounded that way, or even something better, like armored vests or whatever.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Professor McKinney.
	Hello.
	Hi, Eric.
	Hi.
	Tim Learjet.
	Tim from Coal Lake, Alberta, Canada.
	Yes.
	Yeah, it was interesting what the professor was saying about Kanata.
	Yes.
	This is an installation with antennas and it's a mini heart project.
	Uh-huh.
	It was formerly known as the Deacon Baker Bunker.
	Before it was decommissioned, I'd been in it.
	I was a military policeman stationed in Ottawa.
	Yes.
	Like, many years ago.
	And I'd been in that bunker.
	And it was designed to use for the Prime Minister, kind of like the bunker that the President has where he can go and get underneath the ground in case there's some type of attack.
	Like 9-11, that type of idea.
	Mm-hmm.
	But there was a large array of attendants there when I was there.
	Now, that was mostly calm and whatnot, right?
	But still, I was just looking at a current map of the area, and it's still Department of Defense property.
	But what's interesting is that, you know, I watch the news quite a bit, and I never heard a damn thing about that, about this is where the surge came from.
	That was the origin of the surge, was Ottawa.
	They know that.
	I mean, that was public information.
	Well, just to say Kanata, because It's the installation of D&D Carp.
	Carp is the old name because of the town close to that.
	Whatever.
	I mean, are there rumors about it up there?
	Nothing.
	Nothing.
	Not a word.
	No, it was it was a very quiet thing.
	And then, of course, they blamed it on this little power utility company over in Ohio, which had nothing to do with it.
	Yeah, yeah, exactly.
	You know, when I was in that bunker, what was interesting, like about three or four stories down on the ground, And it wasn't being used anymore.
	A friend was guarding it, so I used to drop on patrol and visit him.
	He was another MP.
	And they had a Situation Room way down inside, and they had these big maps on the walls.
	It was kind of cool.
	And it was to do with a nuclear attack on the United States, and it was security-wise of how many Americans were coming over the border into Canada.
	They had all the different border crossings, and it was 2.4 million here.
	1.6 million here on the west coast.
	It was like 7 million people.
	This is a scenario of everybody coming north because they figure it's safe up there.
	So what were the secret plans?
	To mow us down as we made our way across the border, scratched and crawled?
	No, hell no.
	No, we need the tax dollars, so we're gonna... I see.
	Make you all citizens, right?
	So we can tax you to death, like what's going on with us.
	Goodbye, sir.
	A lot of these installations look closed down now, but they're not.
	They're not, huh?
	They are very much active.
	Well, I mean, what you're making is a big claim.
	What support do you have for it?
	Well, the whole scenario, for one, the surge came from that area, and the low rumbling that everybody heard that day, all the way down into New Jersey, But that low rumbling carries along the ground.
	It's a low frequency that carries very well for long distances, but it was centered around that region in Ottawa.
	Are there any measurements that anybody did or any way they can truly know that's what did it?
	Well, there was an incredible amount of power inserted into the grid.
	Like I say, enough to move down into the Northeast power grid and back up nine nuclear reactors.
	And that could not have come from any... You say the activity of the Sun at the time was utterly normal?
	Yeah, and that was when I heard this was going on, I immediately went into all of the sources to trap them, all the satellite sources and all the views of the Earth, all of the lightning.
	I looked at all of the Earth-wide lightning And there was nothing.
	The closest lightning strike was in like Georgia.
	And what was the KP Index like at the time?
	It was normal.
	It was flat.
	Okay.
	All right.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor McKinney.
	Hello.
	Thank you, Professor and Mr. Bell.
	I've thought of this many times.
	I think it's probably already happened.
	About the asteroid belt.
	There are thousands of rocks in that asteroid belt.
	Could one of those huge rocks from the asteroid belt become a threat to our planet?
	It's between Mars and Jupiter?
	It seems to me one of them could possibly come out of that belt and head this way.
	Well, the asteroid belt is more like a very big donut with the majority of these objects, but they're moving in all types of orbits.
	The asteroid belt is kind of a misnomer.
	Well, I guess he was asking if one could somehow break free.
	But those those objects are contained there, well, for various astronomical reasons.
	But the point is, there are many errant asteroids that, in fact, are moving around the solar system.
	And yeah, those errant asteroids from that region could be Earth-crossing and potentially dangerous.
	Alright, and what percent?
	I know that this increases as time goes on, but we have still cataloged an apparently fairly small percentage.
	How many of them do we know about, and how many do we not know about?
	Oh, I forget what the official list is.
	I'm sure it's in the thousands by now, and they consider that possibly only 5% or 2%.
	So, not very many.
	No.
	And then again, even the data we have on these is, like I said, you need to know their position and velocity, and that takes many readings.
	So this is a tremendous amount of observation and data gathering.
	How possible is it, Professor, that we could be hit by something big and not know about it until it hit?
	Well, there again, we have reports of things that went by us.
	I know.
	I always worry about that.
	And even with comets... The headline is, Earth had a very close encounter yesterday.
	Yeah.
	And you can wonder about that.
	Comet Bradfield last May was a three-week notice, and that was a huge comet.
	I get the idea.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor McKinney.
	Hello.
	Good morning, gentlemen.
	Good morning.
	My name's Chris.
	I'm calling from Phoenix 550 KFYI.
	Yes, Chris.
	I have a question I've been wanting to ask the doctor for quite a while.
	By the way, this is a really interesting interview.
	First of all, I want to say that I remember that story about the experiment going on outside Montreal that caused that spike.
	So I don't remember where I heard it before, but I heard about that.
	Okay.
	Okay, the question has to do with celestial discharges.
	There's a large section of desert somewhere in or around India where the surface sand has been turned to glass by some sort of superheating.
	It's occurred to me that, do you think that it may have happened by some large celestial body passing by, discharging and hitting the desert there and turning it to sand?
	Yeah, there's a number of places on Earth like that, and I'm trying to think offhand where the other places are.
	I'm sure you meant glass, turning it to glass.
	Yeah, so I'm turning into a glass that requires a very high temperature.
	Would it be like that, James?
	Would it be like a gigantic, monstrous lightning strike, the same rough effect?
	Exactly, exactly.
	And you see this kind of my, oh, 1979 I published a paper which showed a spot on the On the moon Europa, one of the very first pictures that came back from Jupiter's moons.
	And there was a bullseye with a very big burn hole right in the moon.
	And of course preserved because there's no atmosphere there.
	And it was one of the very first good examples of interplanetary discharges burning a planetary surface.
	And now there's many examples of this, but on Earth, and people see these, they're like beads of glass.
	That required tremendously high temperature and then they're sprinkled around a place where you have silicon sand.
	So the answer is yes, that these are, there's a lot of, let's say, astronomical observations that indicate that the Earth and other planets have been encountered electrical discharges.
	And this would have come as a comet Very highly charged comet came nearby and just zapped.
	And the ancients talk about this.
	They talk about the interplanetary electrical discharges.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor James McKinney.
	Hi.
	Yeah, hi Art.
	Thanks a lot for taking my call.
	I had a question for Professor McKinney.
	There's a project up in Alaska called HARP, High Altitude Auroral Research Project.
	Art touched on it earlier.
	And I was just wondering if you thought that possibly that project was created Uh, to potentially mitigate some sort of, uh, impending foreseen or unforeseen, uh, you know, disaster by one of these comets or...
	Celestral sources that you talk about.
	Could that be one of the functions of it, do you think?
	Alright, let's ask.
	Professor, what is your take on HAARP and its real purpose?
	Well, I believe HAARP began as an experiment.
	And, of course, they're playing with things that they originally didn't understand.
	The ionosphere and the atmosphere and, you know, creating conditions in the atmosphere that trigger the release of energy.
	And that's what Harp has been used for.
	The Russians, a year ago, asked for a moratorium to prevent further development of harp because they considered it a weapon of mass destruction.
	Oh?
	Yeah.
	Now, see, I hadn't heard that either.
	The Russians had their own version.
	We called it the woodpecker, and it was ostensibly some sort of over-the-horizon radar.
	Now, harp is something else, I guess, altogether different.
	I'd be interested in how, or In what way they thought it would be a weapon of mass destruction, possibly?
	Well, you can beam the energy around just like you do with a ham radio or whatever, so it can bounce off the ionosphere, come up over there someplace, and then create a pattern, an oscillatory pattern in the atmosphere that then would create conditions there to release energy from the environment in that point.
	So, you could create a storm over France, say.
	And there were people who actually thought that the severe weather in France was a little repayment for them not joining the Iraqi war.
	I mean, these are the kind of scenarios that are buzzed in the background, you know, when France had this unsettling weather a year ago.
	But then again, that may have been natural.
	I don't... But, Professor, that wouldn't be ethical.
	No, it wouldn't.
	But the Russians were emphatic that a harp should be considered as a weapon.
	Well, that's interesting, because the Russians themselves have made some pretty odd claims.
	For example, claiming to be able to create typhoons to put out fires in Southeast Asia a few years ago.
	Right.
	They, in fact, even offered to do it, actually create one.
	First time they said, I think, for free they could create one.
	After that, it might cost the person wishing a particular weather phenomena.
	That's a pretty incredible claim to make.
	Right.
	But HAARP is a very interesting phenomenon and very controversial, of course.
	But to use it for something in outer space, you have to understand the magnitude of what you're dealing with.
	Just a small asteroid coming at us, HAARP is going to have zero effect.
	All right.
	Professor, we're out of time.
	Your latest book?
	Oh, the Principia Meteorologiae, Physics of Sun-Earth Weather.
	And, of course, it's available on my website.
	And for people who care to use mail, I have the mail order address of JMCC PO Box 58, Navarre, N-A-V-A-R-R-E, Minnesota.
	55392.
	And it's $25.
	That's basically $10 off.
	Includes shipping to the 50 states.
	Alright, well I'm glad you got that in, Professor.
	We've got to say goodnight.
	We're out of time.
	Thank you, Art, and we'll talk again soon.
	Indeed.
	Take care, my friend.
	That's it for this weekend.
	See you next weekend, everybody.
	Here's Crystal Gale.
	Sang it just for me.
	Just the right words, always, to leave.
	Good night!
	Midnight in the desert Shooting stars across the sky This magical journey Will take us on a ride Filled with a longing Searching for the truth Will we make it till tomorrow?
	Will the sun shine on you?

▲