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Nov. 20, 2004 - Art Bell

02:53:48

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Dr. Terry Grossman - To Live Forever

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01:15:20

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01:03:29

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		American snowboard would be snow that's then evaporating before it hits the ground.
		But with the uh with the moon out there just a little bit, providing a little bit of backlighting, you can see this wonderful white blanket that's sort of floating across the valley.
		It's incredible.
		Absolutely incredible.
		At any rate, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you may be in the world's prolific time zones.
		This is that program called Coast to Coast AM.
		Weekend version, I'm Art Bell.
		Honored, privileged to be here with you.
		And we've got a lot to talk about.
		So let me begin with, this comes under the I knew it, I knew it category.
		In a defeat for President Bush, rebellious House Republicans on Saturday derailed legislation that was designed to overhaul the nation's intelligence agencies along lines recommended by the September 11th Commission.
		Quote, it's hard to reform, end quote.
		That was Speaker Dennis Astor, who sought unsuccessfully to persuade critics among the GOP rank and file to swing behind the measure.
		Yeah, sure, I knew it.
		The moment I heard about something that would take the power at the top of our various three-lettered agencies, CIA, NSA, all those letters, and consolidate it, I knew there was going to be gigantic trouble and that it would never work.
		And sure enough, it isn't.
		At least not yet.
		Maybe eventually.
		But I knew that anything like that would be bitterly, bitterly received in the halls of power at these agencies.
		They all have their little fiefdoms and kingdoms within these agencies, and something like this would drive them absolutely nuts.
		This one, this story, I wrote down, bastards.
		Insurgents battled American troops in the streets of Baghdad Saturday, killing a U.S. soldier in an ambush, gunning down four government employees signals that guerrillas remain a potent force despite the fall of their stronghold of Fallujah.
		Nine Iraqis also died in fighting west of the capital in Fallujah, where U.S. Marines and soldiers are still battling pockets of resistance.
		Insurgents waved, get this, insurgents waved a white flag and then opened fire on U.S. troops, causing casualties.
		Bastards.
		That's, of course, what would you expect, I suppose.
		But they depend on our usual rules of engagement.
		And generally, when you wave a white flag, that means you're giving up.
		But they used it to ambush and wound, if not kill, some of our people.
		This story bears very close listening.
		Facing nuclear challenges on two fronts, our president warned Saturday that Iran's suspected weapons program is, quote, a very serious matter, end quote.
		And he stood united with leaders of Asia and Russia in demanding North Korea's return to stalled disarmament talks, of multilateral talks.
		Iran and North Korea, two nations in what Bush has branded an axis of evil, dominated the president's attention.
		And you've got to wonder, are they next?
		In other words, if they don't give up the nuclear dream, are they next?
		We have invaded and now occupy Iraq at quite a cost.
		And I wonder if Iran would be next, or would it be North Korea?
		New world out there.
		Now, I'm not good with names, especially sports names, but Ron Artest, Jermaine O'Neill, and Stephen Jackson of Indiana and Ben Wallace of Detroit, all suspended by the NBA after a gigantic fight.
		You probably saw it on CNN.
		People in the audience just going berserk in the stands.
		They were all, it was a big, giant fistfight, a bad fight.
		And I'm sure you've seen the footage.
		And I just wonder if it is our nature.
		We are a very competitive people.
		You might even go so far as to say we are a warlike people.
		And we are.
		I mean, we really are relatively warlike, aren't we?
		History tells that story.
		Not so small a plane, really.
		They say a small passenger plane boat was carrying 53 people in China, went down, killing all aboard.
		In a moment, I'll skip ahead to the other news of the day, much of which you may not have heard until now.
		Stay right there.
unidentified		Stay right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I'm going to take a moment and I'm going to try to explain to some of you who probably will not understand what I'm about to say if I'm not careful something that's going on.
		My headline would be: something is wrong with the ionosphere.
		Something is wrong with the ionosphere.
		Now, let me lay out my case for you and perhaps beg a little bit of help.
		I am an amateur ham radio operator, as you know, and I tend to hang out a lot on the 75-meter ham band.
		That is a frequency, or a range of frequencies, actually.
		And I've been a ham since 1958 consecutively.
		I've been in ham radio since 1958.
		So I've seen a few sun cycles come and go.
		Not a long record, but I've seen a few.
		And I'm here to tell you tonight that I have never, in all the times I've been using the ionosphere to communicate with my friends, mainly on 75 meters, I have never seen what's going on in the last, let's say, five weeks.
		All right?
		About the last five or six weeks.
		Normally on this range of frequencies, one could dependably communicate with people two, three, four, five hundred miles away.
		And for the last six weeks, not only has it been not dependable, but it has been virtually gone.
		That is the ability to communicate with people over a short range on a frequency where that should be reliably true.
		Now, true, we're in the winter season when things change a little bit.
		We're toward the bottom of the sun cycle, acknowledged.
		However, if you discount the sun flares that we had, which of course disrupt communications severely at times, and certainly did disrupt them, and you look at the numbers both prior to that whole bunch of sun flares that we had and following the sun flares after they had calmed down,
		there is absolutely nothing, let me repeat, nothing to justify the inability to have communications where we have traditionally had communications.
		Now, that means something is wrong from my perspective with the ionosphere.
		And I can't tell you what it is because I don't know.
		I just know something is wrong.
		Now, I think we have trouble at any numbers of levels of the atmosphere above us.
		It's not just the ionosphere.
		As you well know, we have trouble with the ozone layer as well.
		And I'm telling you, there's something going on with the ionosphere, and I can't tell you what.
		And so here is what I'm requesting.
		And I've sent off some emails to people at NOAA and the Space Environment Center and so forth and so on, asking for an expert to come on and try and tell me what's going on with the ionosphere.
		Now, many of us have speculated about many things, including, by the way, HAARP.
		After all, the primary goal of HAARP is to experiment with the ionosphere, literally burning holes in the ionosphere.
		And I'm not saying that what we're experiencing right now is because of HAARP, but it certainly is one outstanding possibility.
		Anyway, again, the headline is something is wrong with the ionosphere.
		Something is going on.
		It may well be something totally explicable that some scientist or person could come on here and explain.
		But until they do, I'm telling you, something's wrong.
		I have never experienced anything like this in all of my hamdom.
		So let me just observe that for you and move forward.
		But if there's anybody out there who would like to come on as a guest, who has credentials with respect to ionospheric and radio propagation studies, I'd love to have you come on board.
		But the average person out there, again, my headline is, something is wrong up there.
		So we'll leave it at that.
		And if you are such an expert or you feel you can explain what's really going on that would clobber a band like this, actually many bands for weeks on end, then feel free to contact me, artbell at mindspring.com or artbell at aol.com.
		In other news, you're going to love this.
		Listen carefully.
		Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger on Monday appointed a new Department of Motor Vehicles director, and this new director apparently has advocated, you're going to love it, taxing motorists, that would be you and me, for every mile they drive by placing tracking devices in their cars.
		The idea would mean a significant overhaul of how California collects taxes to maintain its often crumbling roads.
		Under the plan, the state gas tax, now about 18 cents gallon, by the way, would be replaced with a tax on every single mile your car or your truck travels.
		The notion not yet endorsed by the governor, but it is gaining acceptance among transportation and budget experts.
		As Californians drive increasingly more fuel-efficient cars, state officials are alarmed that the gas tax will not raise enough money to keep up with the holes in the road.
		Charging people for the miles they drive also worries some owners of hybrid cars because, why, it could wipe out any gas tax savings They might enjoy now.
		There are other concerns as well.
		For example, how about your privacy?
		This thing would look at every mile you drive.
		Privacy advocates worry about government tracking the whereabouts of every car in California.
		In one scenario, currently being tested in Oregon, incidentally, tracking devices send a signal to a GPS satellite following the car, and that information would be used to calculate the tax bill.
		Other devices send a signal directly from the car to the pump, which calculates the tax based on the odometer reading.
		Oh, brother.
		Annaline Newitz, a policy analyst for the Electronic Frontier Foundation in San Francisco, which monitors privacy issues, said if the device can communicate with a satellite and then communicate back with another device on the ground, why it could be used for something else.
		That would be my concern.
		How are limits placed on how this device might be used?
		Yet some transportation experts say the technology has wider implications.
		Officials are intrigued by the idea because California could begin taxing people for using specific roads at specific times to keep people off freeways at peak hours, for example.
		Per mile fees for city streets could be pegged at a lower rate than the highway.
		That could prompt people to use alternative routes.
	So the obvious question is, how you feel about the possibility of a little black box being included with your car?
	One that would, by law, I might add, one that would, and gee, think what else they could learn.
	They could probably learn how fast you're going.
	Well, that would be calculated against the mileage, right?
	And all of this reported by satellite to the tax people.
	Oh, man.
	Big Brother really is on the way, isn't he?
	Here's a worrisome little story, and then we'll do open lines.
	Yeah, we're going to do open lines.
	Anything your little heart would like to talk about, we are prepared to discuss this evening.
	The headline is Bird Flu, Bird Flu Seen As The Next Pandemic.
	Epidemiologist Michael Osterholm said Monday in Minneapolis that animal diseases emerging in foreign countries are on a course to threaten U.S. families, agriculture, and the economies in ways we've never seen.
	Osterholm, who is associate director for the National Center for Food Protection and Defense for Homeland Security, told a national conference of agricultural bankers that he believes the bird flu epidemic in Southeast Asia is about to become a lethal pandemic.
	His words.
	Last week, the World Health Organization sounded a similar alert, urging preparations for such a pandemic as a matter of national security.
	And on Monday, researchers at the National Institutes of Health announced initiatives to step up research to stave off an outbreak and develop a response should it hit.
	Osterholm projected that a pandemic, listen carefully now, could kill about 30,000 Minnesotans, 1.7 million Americans, and 177 million people worldwide in its first year.
	The world is unprepared with inadequate amounts of vaccine or even face masks.
	If the bird flu virus mutates into one that spreads easily among hogs and people, that would slam travel to a halt and it would cripple the economy.
	This is going to be, this is a quote, this is going to be the most catastrophic thing in my lifetime, end quote.
	That was Oster Holm.
	Remember, he's an epidemiologist.
	When this situation unfolds, he goes on, we will shut down global markets overnight.
	There will not be movement of goods.
	There will not be, or there will not be movement of goods.
	There will not be movement of people.
	And this is going to last for a year, maybe two.
	That came from the Star Tribune, the Minneapolis Star Tribune, if you want to look it up.
	Now, that's really serious stuff.
	30,000 people dead in Minnesota, possible.
	1.7 million in America, 177 million worldwide.
	That's a very, very, very serious story.
	And it, of course, comes on the heels of a story we're all dealing with right now, and that is no flu vaccine.
	I think we've got about 300 flu vaccine shots for our little town of Paramp.
	I guess that's our allotment, as it were.
	And they are going to the young, the old, the infirm.
	As you would imagine, in a shortage situation would happen.
	But my God, what if story A coincided with story B?
	I refer here to the bird flu.
	What a time that would be.
	So things to worry about in the new century.
	That certainly would go up near the top of the list, along with, I suppose, nuclear weapons being developed by Iran And North Korea getting into the wrong hands.
	So we've got a lot to worry about in this century.
	Okay, first names only.
	I had to bleep that out, sir.
unidentified		Sorry about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Please don't give me your last name.
unidentified		Yeah, I just wanted to make mention that in the movie Back to the Future 2, with the infamous history book on sports, they make mention that the Boston Red Sox will win the World Series in a four-game sweep of the St. Louis Cardinals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, did they really?
unidentified		Absolutely.
		And I just wanted to mention that to you because I know how you like the time travel and such.
		And I'd like to just listen to your comments off the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well then, here they come.
		Yes, isn't that interesting?
		There have been a number of stories.
		That one, you know, and also the one about one of my favorites, it could be an urban myth, who knows, but it was run as a real wire service story.
		Some fellow did a bunch of trading on Wall Street, so much successful trading that they closed in on him.
		And when they did, he said, well, I'm serious.
		Now, this could be an investor who perhaps had some inside knowledge, or maybe he had time-related inside knowledge, if you follow me.
		I don't know, but the people who look into that sort of thing laughed really hard, and then I guess called one of the big national news services.
		There are a number of things.
		I got an email from somebody who got a color photograph of his grandfather back from a time when they didn't have color photography.
		I just got that email earlier today.
		We're going to pause, and when we come back, the lines are open for whatever's on your mind.
		From the high desert, this is Toast to Toast AM.
unidentified		Toast AM.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That thing does rock, doesn't it?
unidentified		All right, listen, the phone numbers are a little bit different on the weekend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So please make note.
unidentified		To talk with Art Bell.
		Call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from East of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From West to the Rockies, call ART at 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you open unscreened calls coming right up.
		Turn the radio up a notch and get set, because we're about to rock.
		Well, okay, here comes the good part.
		All of you.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Top of the morning.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Joe from Michigan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Joe.
unidentified		I just wanted to tell you about that thing in California about the black box in the card thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I wanted to say, you know, I mean, they're nicking little by little at the people of America and taking little by little of their freedom away, you know.
unidentified		And I wanted to say, if that's not communism, what is, you know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tom, communism is, in the end, making everybody absolutely equal.
		At least that's the idealistic preaching of communism.
		Realistically, it never works out that way.
		But yes, I can see how you would perhaps view it in that way.
unidentified		Right.
		I got one other thing.
		On November 7th here in Michigan, you talk about the solar flares a lot and stuff.
		And on November 7th, we had the most bright northern lights I've ever seen in my life here in Michigan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it was incredible.
		It was not just Michigan, as I'm sure you're aware.
		It was all across the northern latitudes.
		In fact, they were seen at one point as far south as Arizona.
		So, yes, we had some magnificent solar disturbances.
		But I want to make it clear again that what I perceive as wrong with the ionosphere right now has no relationship to that period of disturbance at all.
		In fact, looking at the current numbers, and I do realize there are some very fast stuff coming from the sun particles, but still, none of this justifies what we have been experiencing for the last six weeks, five or six weeks.
		I'm telling you, I have never seen Anything like it.
		And those who operate on those frequencies understand exactly what I'm talking about.
		What we need to do is reach out and get an expert in that area and have him.
		I'm sure there's an explanation, but until then, my personal little headline is: there is something wrong with the ionosphere.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, this is Jason from Las Vegas Kong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm fine, Jason.
unidentified		Awesome.
		Listen, I wanted to ask about the SpiritCom device that you had on Ghost to Ghost on Halloween.
		If you'd heard anybody putting one together since then or gotten any results from that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are several people who wrote to me who said, oh my God, I've been working on something very similar now for some time and like to fell out of my chair when I heard the SpearCom broadcast.
unidentified		Wow.
unidentified		Did they have the same results?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, there are people getting results, and I'm working on getting them on the air.
unidentified		That would be great.
		I'd love to hear some more about that.
		I mean, you know, I mean, just recently having family pass away and whatnot, you know, I mean, it's just kind of a pipe dream, really, but, you know, just something I'd like to hear about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
		I appreciate the call.
		And if you didn't hear it, what to a lot of people amounted to an hour and 20 minutes of just unbearable noise and weirdness was, in a lot of ways, I consider it to be one of the most important stories I ever put on the air.
		I mean, look, we're not here to do what everybody else does on talk shows.
		And so sometimes that results in something really weird.
		SpearCom was one of those times.
		This man, George Meeks, for years, for his whole life, adult life, worked on technical ways, and they were described in great detail on the website, to talk to the other side.
		And in my mind, he proved he was doing it.
		It was one of the most incredible, if you had the patience, and I begged people to have the patience to sit through it as I played that.
		I received hundreds, no, thousands of emails about Spiracom.
		And the people who really did strain and listen and understood what they were hearing just were totally blown away.
		I think it's the real McCoy.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
unidentified		Yeah, hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		This is Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be me.
unidentified		Yeah, okay.
		I was listening to you about the pandemic.
		I think this is scare tactics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you?
unidentified		Yeah.
		And from what I understood, that they've got it under control.
		Now, do you think they'd really want to wipe out their whole country when all of our businesses are moving over there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't think that anybody's suggesting this would be induced by man.
		They're beginning to see the bird flu jumping species.
		You know, they're starting to see that.
		And as they see that, they've got to imagine the possibility.
		There's quite a bit of research on that shows the 1918 flu that killed so many millions was some sort of bird flu, something that had jumped.
		And so I don't think they're suggesting somebody's going to cook it up in a lab, though God knows it could probably happen.
		I think they're suggesting nature will do this one for us.
unidentified		Well, nature has a cure for just about everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, including overpopulation.
unidentified		Yeah.
		And another thing that you were seeing about your radio problems, it's been happening, you said about six weeks.
		You're right, because it's been happening on your stations, on the other people's stations.
		And last week we couldn't hardly pick you up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Here's what a lot of my listeners would have noticed, and I should have said this earlier because it would bring it down to the level that a lot of people could understand.
		Even though it does not affect the AM broadcast band to the degree that it does with what I call 75 meters, that's three.
		Think of the broadcast band from 540, right, to 1700 or 1710, whatever it is these days.
		Where I operate is up around 3.8 megahertz.
		So it's not that far away.
		And there have been days where the broadcast band is affected.
		So radio stations you would normally hear at 50 and 60 miles away are just flat gone.
unidentified		Well, the other night on 540 and on 970 and on 1700, I couldn't pick y'all up anywhere.
		Yeah.
		Even on 1,200.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And anyway, something other than that, you know, y'all had McElvaney on your program last week, George Norty's program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And the stock market's already dropping.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it?
unidentified		Yeah, it started Friday.
		I mean, everything was in the red.
		You don't think that missed a few things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't think that that was Don's prediction, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not false.
unidentified		Yeah.
		And I think it's going to happen, but the thing is, people just got to keep their heads and get out as quick as they can so they don't lose everything.
		But not for people to panic.
		I wish that could happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, I don't know.
		The president, when the market falls precipitously, our president always gets on the air and says the economy is sound.
		And he's always been right so far.
		However, there are a number of areas in which our economy now is basically teetering.
		The dollar isn't doing so well.
		And economies and the best economies and the biggest economies in the world are no longer here in the U.S. So, you know, things are changing, and it all bears watching.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Yeah, Art.
		I'm impressed at how calm some of your call-ins seem to be very nervous talking to you here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, look, the way to do it is take a deep breath and then say exactly what you wanted to say.
unidentified		I'll take a shot at it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		You know, you mentioned that satellite tracking of cars that Schwarzenegger wants to do, and that's kind of alarming to me, being a lover of my own privacy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me carefully correct you a little bit.
		The governor has not yet signed on to it, the story said.
		What it said was That people in his administration and transportation are real hot on the idea.
unidentified		Well, you know, I just wanted to add a potential to that, if I may.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You may.
unidentified		I worked for a guy a few years ago who had a company that was devoted to, well, one of the divisions was devoted to land mine detection.
		And they found out a way of fluorescing, you know, target areas in front of, like, say, a moving vehicle at convoy speed, which was six kilometers an hour or something like that.
		And they had a 200 to 300 meter fluorescent range.
		And it would pick up landmines based on all six nitrate-based propellants, which to quite a degree is a lot like gunpowder.
		And so he was saying that their success rating was 110%, meaning that they could find out where land mines had been buried, and they would leave residual traces.
		And so I was talking to him, and he was saying that it could find ammunition in a car.
		Somebody was transporting their rifle to the range.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would imagine, yes.
unidentified		And that these units could be mounted on bridges, and all they needed was the telemetry to flag a vehicle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We are entering a new age.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We might as well face up to it, but somebody's got to stand and fight with regard to our Fourth Amendment rights and save what's left of them, sir.
unidentified		Yes, this 1984 thing is a few years late, but boy, it certainly seems to be coming up on us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if do you live in California?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Okay, good.
		If it became the law in California that a little black box that would report your movements to a satellite by law had to go into your car, how would you react?
		I'm just curious.
unidentified		Well, I'd be stunned.
		I'm stunned, outraged.
		I'd be trying to find others who felt like me that we could politically, peacefully form some kind of a legal resistance to this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If push came to shove, though, and they said, look, you either take this or you don't get a license, you don't drive.
unidentified		Well, I think I would make plans to leave the state.
		I suppose I'm a little bit paranoid or overreactive, but I don't like the feeling that the government is part of my household.
		I like to feel that the government would be an entity that would protect me, the sovereignty of my country, the solvency of my money, and jobs, air, that kind of stuff.
		Of course, it's not doing any of those things.
		It seems to be more interested in me and what I might think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder how many other Californians would join in in that level of protest should it occur.
unidentified		I don't know.
		But, you know, the people that I would have thought, you know, like the Berkeley Knights, you know, the people from the 60s who didn't want the government in your face, you know, that generation, which I'm part of, now seems to be the people who want to be in your house with you.
		You know, it's kind of a strange metamorphosis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not really.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It happens every generation.
unidentified		Yeah, they're old and now they're conservative and paranoid and think that they know best what you should the lifestyle you should pick up, I guess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		The way they live their life is obviously the way you should be living your life.
		Well, see, it wasn't that hard.
		You got it done just fine, sir.
		Thank you very much for the call.
unidentified		You bet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, take care.
		So there is an outraged Californian.
		And again, it has not yet happened.
		However, many on the governor's staff are apparently very hot on the idea.
		And it's a little black box that would fit inside your car, report to a satellite on your movements, how many miles you drive, what roads you drive on, perhaps, just everything about you.
		And then even your speed, I suppose, calculated on the fuel usage, or speed could just be another little piece of data that's reported.
		Big brother indeed.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello?
		You have your radio on.
		Please extinguish your radio as a first step toward getting on the air.
		No, he's not going to do it.
		Well, then we're out of here.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		Hello?
		Going once, going twice.
unidentified		Yeah, I'm calling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're calling.
		Well, sorry, we missed you.
		West of the Rockies.
		Let's try it here.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
unidentified		I'd like to discuss a theory about alien UFO sightings with ART.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is ART.
unidentified		Oh, hey, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yes, so I have this theory that the sightings, they're originating south of the border, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you mean the UFOs?
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		It actually it coincides with the Mexican New Year's.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It does?
unidentified		Yeah, because when it all started, the aliens are in cahoots with the Mexicans.
unidentified		They transfer the UFOs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, I let him self-destruct, which he did quite readily.
		He was apparently trying to pull some sort of prank.
		But even he couldn't carry it out.
		He just sort of self-destructed in the middle of his silliness.
		East of the Rockies, you're on air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi.
		My name is Diane.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Diane.
unidentified		Hi, and I just have one thing I wanted to just throw out at you.
unidentified		But first, I just wanted to go ahead and say also that here in Iowa, up until just a couple of days ago, for at least a week, about a half a dozen AM stations that I listened to at night were dead silence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I didn't know what was going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, what's going on is something very odd, hon. We had aurora borealis due to some sunflares, but this condition has extended, was present before the sunflares and continues now, well, after the effect of the sun flares.
		And that's what's got me very concerned.
		Otherwise, the aurora is very pretty when it's there, isn't it?
unidentified		Yeah.
		Did you get to see some of it?
		Just no, just some friends of mine said they saw some of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, sometimes it can get absolutely beautiful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Reds, greens, mixing, moving like jelly across the sky.
unidentified		Oh, I'd love to see that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		It's beautiful.
		I love nature and everything.
		But I have this question.
		I don't have very many details.
		And this happened on a radio station I heard about the middle of the week.
		It's weird, but he said he couldn't remember the senator's name.
		But he said a senator actually was trying to introduce a bill.
		Maybe you've heard about it.
		A bill to make it a federal offense that you couldn't switch your station when a commercial came on your TV.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I read something about that now.
unidentified		And Senator McCain, I guess he stood up and was, you know, against it, said something about you this would never work.
		But anyway, this newscaster said that TiVo thinks that would be a good idea.
		Now, I don't have TiVo, but they said that something about they'd like to either put their commercials on or else they do have their own commercials.
		All right.
		They don't want you to not watch them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm not.
		Listen, here's the deal.
		Either it's an urban legend or it's real legislation that may be proposed.
		But here's what I get out of it.
		The commercial people who sponsor television shows are beginning to get very upset at the TiVos of the world.
		These are devices that record upon a hard drive, television programs, and then when you play them back, you're able to readily skip boom, boom, boom, boom, right across the commercials and watch, oh, let's say a one-hour program in probably about two-thirds the time it would take you to watch if you sat there and sat through each commercial.
		Now, it's not all that different than VCRs.
		I mean, you could record a commercial and then go buy them.
		TiVo simply makes it a little easier.
		So the rumor is, and at this stage I can't qualify it beyond a rumor, that the manufacturers want some sort of bill introduced making it illegal or impossible, perhaps impossible, for you to skip through the commercials.
		So there you go, that little black box in your car.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good evening, Mr. Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are you, sir?
		Quite well.
		Thank you.
unidentified		This is Jeff from Kim, Texas, sir.
		I'm a long-time listener and a first-time caller.
		I was wondering, is there any possible way I could get any information on Ms. Straeber's condition, sir?
		I haven't heard anything in a while, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the last I heard, she was doing quite well and had been moved out of the intensive care ward into a regular ward where she's recovering and with all her faculties intact.
unidentified		That's fantastic, sir.
		And we'll continue the person.
		Thank you for your time, Mr. Bale.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much for calling.
		He refers to Anne Streeber, who had bleeding in the brain, a very serious condition indeed.
		And they went in through a vein and put a little device at the end of the area that was bleeding and apparently got it to stop.
		And then the blood that was there apparently has been pretty well absorbed.
		There's no apparent paralysis, very little effect on memory and that sort of thing.
		So I guess we can say your prayers worked.
		I mean, you can always imagine that it was not that, that it was just the random hand of God.
		But I choose to believe that indeed your prayers work.
		And I will continue to pray as I hope you do for Ann Streeber.
		In the middle of the night, in the darkness, this is Coast to Coast A.M. I'm Art Bell.
		Stay right where you are.
		By the way, would you like to live forever?
		That's what we're going to be talking about.
unidentified		Nights in White Side.
		The After Dark newsletter.
		Subscribe now by calling toll-free, 1-888-727-5505.
		Letters I've written, never meaning to sound beautiful with these eyes before.
		We'll be right back.
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast A.M. with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who loves you, baby?
unidentified		Well, of course, we love you, and we want you to live forever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if you listen carefully, over the coming few hours you may learn how to do exactly that, or you may learn the state of the science that will eventually get you there.
		If you so desire, that that's much more by itself, isn't it?
		If you so desire.
		Anyway, coming right up, Dr. Terry Grossman.
unidentified		Dr. Terry Grossman Are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Terry Grossman is indeed a medical doctor.
		He is also the founder and the medical director of Frontier Medical Institute in Denver, Colorado.
		His longevity medical practice attracts patients, I can imagine it would, including many VIPs from around the country, in fact around the world.
		He graduated from Brandeis University in 1968 and the University of Florida School of Medicine in 1979.
		Dr. Grossman undertook the study of nutritional and anti-aging medicine back in 1994 and in 95 opened Frontier Medical Institute in Denver, so he must have thought it worked.
		That quickly grew into one of the largest complementary medical centers in the country.
		He is assistant professor of family practice at the University of Colorado School of Medicine.
		He is a member and board certified physician by the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine as well as the American Holistic Medical Association.
		Dr. Grossman is also a widely sought-after lecturer on longevity medicine throughout the U.S. and has presented keynote addresses at anti-aging seminars all the way around the world.
		In addition, he is the author of the Baby Boomer's Guide to Living Forever and Fantastic Voyage, the science behind radical life extension.
		Here is Dr. Terry Grossman.
		Doctor, welcome to the program.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Thank you so much, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fantastic Voyage, The Science Behind Radical Life Extension seems like a good title.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Baby Boomer's Guide to Living Forever sounds very optimistic.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it was my contention with the first book, The Baby Boomer's Guide to Living Forever, that the prospects for radical life extension and even potentially for effectively living forever really is not that far off.
		It may be a technology that's available to us within the next few decades.
		And for people who are younger than the baby boomers, barring legislative fiat or global catastrophe, there's a good opportunity that they will be able to take full advantage of these therapies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, those two are big bars.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, they are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll talk about them on the other side.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		We don't address that in the books.
		But the baby boomers are kind of a crux generation.
		And for them, if these technologies come to full fruition in, say, 25 years, many of them may take advantage of them.
		But if they don't bear fruit until 35 or 40 years, then it becomes more problematic.
		But we feel that the technology to allow people to live those additional decades is available today for people, even at the oldest baby boomers, and even beyond the baby boomer generation.
		So therefore, the new book that I wrote, Fantastic Voyage, we actually subtitled Live Long Enough to Live Forever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, gee, it's almost hard to know where to begin.
		This is so interesting.
		Live Long Enough to Live Forever.
		So obviously, you think we're that close.
		How old are you, Doctor?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		I am 57 right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		57.
		I'm 59.
		I'd say we're both really on the cusp there.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, absolutely.
		The sword of Damocles is hanging over us more than the younger baby boomers who right now have just turned 40.
		And for the Generation X and younger people, I really think they will be able to take full advantage of these technologies.
		But for people our age, it's particularly urgent that we do the things that we discuss in the book in order to try to take full advantage of these therapies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's talk then about decades.
		Assuming it is now possible to extend life by decades, that's quite a claim right there.
		Let's talk about that.
		What would have to be done to take somebody, let's say our age, roughly, and extend their life decades long enough to perhaps get to the magic bullet point?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, in our book, we discuss what we refer to as the three bridges.
		And Bridge 1 consists of today's therapies, things people can either do or take advantage of from the medical community available now that will enable people to live long enough so that they can then take full advantage of Bridge 2.
		And Bridge 2 is really the full expression of the biotechnology revolution, which is only now just beginning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What would Bridge 2 be?
		I mean, is it these telomeres or whatever they are and being able to control them?
		Even though you might not know exactly what it is, what is your best guess about what Bridge 2 actually will be?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, in Bridge 2, I consider there to be actually five key elements of Bridge 2 therapies.
		And the telomeres actually are part of one of these therapies.
		But I would consider, for instance, stem cell therapies that we hear so much about in the news, both the embryonic stem cells and adult stem cells, which we could talk about as one of the true big five of the Bridge II therapies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		May I please ask, from a purely medical and scientific point of view, how important are embryonic stem cells versus adult stem cells to this Research that could potentially have us on our way to living forever.
		I'm talking now about the embryonic ones.
		How important are they?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, you raise a very good point because the embryonic stem cells are the type of stem cells that are creating so much debate.
		Because, as you know, stem cells are cells that are very plastic.
		They can change into all types of different cells of the body, and they can be, with the right growth factors applied to them, turn into different type of cells, which is why they have so much therapeutic potential.
		And up until recently, we thought that stem cells needed to be harvested from organisms that were very, very young, such as in the embryonic stage or fetal stage, and people were taking umbilical cord blood to harvest stem cells.
		But actually, we found that stem cells persist even into adulthood.
		And a very simple source of stem cells is to just pluck a hair and to take some of the follicle cells, and in that area are found adult stem cells.
		And another very rich source of adult stem cells are the fat tissue.
		So there are stem cells in adulthood.
		And the question, the big debate among scientists now is, are stem cells as valuable?
		Can they be coaxed to do the same things that the embryonic stem cells are?
		And there is some evidence that's coming out that suggests that this may be true, and even other evidence that suggests that stem cells may have advantages over the embryonic stem cells.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, not only because the adult stem cells are not subject to the same moral and ethical quagmire that the embryonic stem cells are, but the adult stem cells, the embryonic stem cells, are actually very, almost, they're almost too plastic.
		They're difficult to control.
		They're like wild.
		They're hard to control in the laboratory.
		And maybe the adult stem cells will prove easier for the scientists to work with.
		So there may actually be advantages.
		I think in the near future, we'll reach the point that we're able to coax the adult stem cells to do what we want them to do, to create new organs and tissues that are desirable for maintaining health, for improving health.
		And then we don't need to enter into the political and moral ethical dilemma about embradic stem cells.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But isn't what a stem cell does, in essence, ordered by our genetic makeup to do what it does when it does it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, an older stem cell already has been ordered and it's doing what it's going to be doing for you?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		No, in other words, a stem cell that resides, you may be right, a stem cell that resides in the hair, for instance, may have already been differentiated and it has been told you are to become a hair cell one day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, and it's well already a hair cell, if not already being lost to a bald head, who knows by the time it's very adult.
		So, I mean, I'm trying to get down to the, forget the moral aspect of it for a second, hard as that may be.
		If you had your choice and you were deep into the research, which for all I know you may be, would you choose to work with embryonic stem cells or adult stem cells, doctor?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, at this stage of our progress, I think that the embryonic stem cells would be easier to work with because they are more plastic and they can be coaxed more easily.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		But there is some thought that we will be able to de-differentiate a hair follicle stem cell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kind of like erasing it, you mean?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, basically to tell it to go back to be less differentiated because it's not that far away from what it started as.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Because within all the cells and within the stem cells are the blueprints to make any cell in the body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that kind of level of research, it seems to me, would be quite a ways downline from the embryonic research.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure that it's that far away.
		Things are progressing very, very quickly.
		And due to the fact that there has been a relative difficulty in getting funds to do embryonic stem cell research, some laboratories have begun to look more seriously at adult stem cells, and they may have considerable value.
		So if we can coax the adult stem cells to de-differentiate to become more like the what are called pluripotent or totopotent stem cells, which are the earlier embryonic-like stem cells, then we will be able to utilize them for the purposes we want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe we should explain to the audience when you say differentiate.
		In other words, they are differentiated as a hair.
		In other words, you're going to become a hair follicle, or you're going to become a liver, or you're going to become a fingernail, or that's what these things are, right?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		In other words, each cell in the body contains the complete genetic code for the entire body.
		And the only reason that a cell that is in your liver became that liver cell was because certain factors, certain chemicals in its environment, told it to express these genes, to turn certain genes on, and to turn certain genes off, and therefore it ultimately turned into a liver cell.
		The same nucleus, the same blueprint that's in the DNA told another cell to become a heart muscle cell.
		And what the stem cells can do is they have the ability to become any type of cell.
		A liver cell can only become a liver cell at this point, and a hair cell can only become a hair.
		But a stem cell can become any type of cell given the right program, given the right chemicals in its environment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, does this mean that you anticipate someday somebody will draw back a syringe with something in it that when injected will begin to grow a, oh, let's say a new liver for somebody or a new heart or whatever?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		This is the current promise of embryonic stem cells today.
		And there are actually clinics outside of the United States.
		I know very little about them, but I've heard about them.
		Patients of mine have actually traveled outside of the United States to receive these type of injections that you described.
		And what happens is they receive injections of stem cells, embryonic stem cells, that are available Elsewhere than the United States.
		And these cells will travel anywhere in the body that they are needed.
		They have enough knowledge to know that, okay, there's a problem in the spinal cord, an injury, spinal cord injury, or there's a problem in the liver, or there's cancer in the lung, and they will travel to wherever these problems are and immediately take up residence there and become the needed cells.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, does this mean that, for example, let's take a heart.
		Does this mean a damaged heart would begin to repair itself?
		Does it mean a new heart would begin growing in the patient?
		Does it mean a heart could be grown in a Petri dish or something like that?
		How might it work?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, in a Petri dish, I think this is happening now.
		Scientists are able to take stem cells and cause them to differentiate or become heart-muscle cells.
		This type of therapy is going on.
		Whether or not you can just take an injection, a syringe full of embryonic stem cells, and inject it into a patient's bloodstream and expect them to go to a damaged heart or go to a damaged spinal cord, I don't think that we really have enough evidence to show that that's true.
		But there are clinics outside of the United States that do this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Obviously, then, Doctor, you're hearing stuff probably on the Internet.
		What are you hearing?
		What have they done?
		How successful are they being?
		Do you know what?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, to hear what they say, I've actually been to lectures that have been presented by people that have done this therapy.
		And to hear them talk, they have a great deal of success.
		But in the few patients that I have seen that I did not refer to these clinics, but I know they went on their own, they did not have a great deal of success.
		So I don't know to what degree these clinics are able to do this.
		But I think in the near future, they may have this technology.
		But I don't think it really exists today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Again, let me back up and ask you which it is.
		If you were to get an injection today and you had a, I don't know, a troubled heart, a damaged heart because you'd had a heart attack, as an example, and you received a shot for this, what would it do?
		What would the expectation be with today's level of technology that would go in and begin to repair the heart damage?
		Or what are the wildest rumors?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, the wildest rumors would be exactly that, but they would also be exactly that, which is to say, rumors.
		And I don't know that we could anticipate that they would actually do that.
		They might be sold as being able to do that.
		But realistically, I don't know that we could depend on that happening.
		I actually think that I had mentioned earlier, these embryonic stem cells are a little bit on the wild side.
		And that is to say that they can multiply and become perhaps something that we don't want them to become.
		So at this stage, I don't think that that's a safe therapy that people should engage in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you've actually had patients on their own.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		They have gone to do this.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Not at my recommendation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not at your recommendation.
		Did you tell your patients about the existence of such clinics and then just offer them their own thought process?
		Or maybe I shouldn't even ask you this.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no, I think that they actually found it on their own.
unidentified		Did they?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think they found it on their own and just asked me what I thought.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, it's kind of let the buyer beware type of flops because I really don't know, and we don't have any studies to demonstrate that these clinics are or that these therapies are at the stage that are providing the type of help we need.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, how many years do you think we might be from a point where you could get a shot that would repair your heart or your liver?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many years from that?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, things are accelerating so much, it's hard to predict that, but I don't think it's unrealistic that we could be looking at something like that in the next 10 or 15 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		Okay, then maybe you can imagine this for me.
		If this level two technology is in place and working, what will it mean to the average human being able to afford it?
		What would it mean?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's take the case of an individual that's had a heart attack, a serious heart attack, and that heart attack has destroyed a significant part of the heart muscle.
		Heart muscle is unable to pump adequately to supply the blood flow through the body.
		At the current stage of our medical expertise, that patient would either need a heart transplant or a prosthetic heart.
		If we had the ability to take some stem cells and grow a new heart, that patient could then receive a cloned heart, a heart that was created of their own stem cells.
		It wouldn't be rejected.
		And or they could get a transplant of muscle, heart muscle, to replace the damaged muscle.
		And I think that the damaged muscle transplant would be realistic within the 10 to 15-year time span, and the entire heart may be 15 to 20 years off.
		So that would be realistic for this type of therapies.
		That's why they're so exciting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is exciting.
		That really is.
		And I take it similar treatments would be developed very quickly for our other organs, our lungs, our liver, and so forth and so on.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, those therapies have begun today.
		I have a friend in Japan, an ophthalmologist, and he is using stem cells to grow corneas.
		And other doctors are growing urinary bladders.
		These are relatively simple organs.
		The bladder is a fairly simple organ, and the cornea compared to other organs is a simple organ.
		But they're already creating these out of stem cells today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Hold it right there, Doctor.
		We're at the bottom of the error.
		Dr. Terry Grossman is my guest.
		So some organs can already grow.
		They just start the right stem cells growing in some version of a Petri dish or deep black box, and pretty soon you've got an organ.
unidentified		You don't count me dead.
		You know you don't count me dead.
		To access the audio archives of Coast to Coast AM, log on to coasttocoastam.com.
		Got to play your tunes, you want to see the blues, and you know it don't come easy.
		You don't have to shout or leave the vows, you can't even play them.
		25, 25, if man is still alive, if woman can survive, they may fly.
		In the year 35, 35, ain't gonna need to tell the truth, tell no lies.
		Everything you think, do and say is in the bill you took today.
		In the year 45, 45, you're gonna need your teeth, won't meet your eyes.
		You won't find a thing to chew, nobody's gonna look at you.
		In the year 55, 55, your arms hangin'limp at your side.
		Your legs got nothing to do.
		Some machine doing that for you.
		In the year 65, 65, ain't gonna need no husband, won't need no wife.
		You pick your son, pick your daughter too.
		From the bottom of a long drive, dude, whoa, whoa.
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from East of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From West to the Rockies, call ART at 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Odd is, this song actually may have been very, very pessimistic.
		It may not take nearly that long.
		Dr. Terry Grossman is my guest, and much of what they're singing about, it's already happening.
unidentified		The End Are you striving?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, these stem cells are things that can be differentiated.
		That is to say, they are told what they're going to be.
		Now, normally, our genetic code orders them to be what they are.
		What Dr. Grossman is talking about is a way to take either the very early stem cells, the very, very early ones, which are essentially blank, which you would think would make them easier to work with, and that's why they're the great argument over embryonic stem cells, or adult stem cells, and then like you would erase a blackboard, I guess, you erase it and then tell it what you want it to be.
		Is that simplified but roughly accurate?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Art, that's quite accurate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		I am sort of curious.
		You mentioned a couple of organs, Cornea, I think you said, and some others that could actually be grown right now.
		How do they do that, Doctor?
		Are they growing it in some sort of black box or what?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		You know, they're doing it basically in glass, in teacher dishes and in sterile environments.
		And they're putting in the appropriate chemicals that will create the environment to cause the stem cells to grow into the desired organ.
		So they can grow corneas to replace damaged corneas or also to create bladders.
		The bladders haven't been done clinically.
		I don't think either of these have been done in humans yet, but they're growing these organs now, and I think they'll be able to grow more complicated tissues and more complex organs in the very near future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They have grown corneas, though?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, they've grown.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if they've grown fully functional corneas, but they've certainly grown partial corneas and corneal grafts, things like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we're not very far from, for example, a full cornea being grown and then replaced.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, exactly.
		And they've also grown, they've taken stem cells and coaxed them to grow to become scaffolding for blood vessels.
		So, you know, right now when people have like an aortic bypass, they need to take a Dacron type of graft and use that instead of the patient's own if it has damage.
		We'll be able to actually grow blood vessels such as aortic tissue, things like that, because that's also a simple tissue, basically just a tube.
		So I think that these type of stem cell grown tissues will be available in the next few years.
		We won't be waiting a very long time for these.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That song was pessimistic, wasn't it?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		25-25 song.
		I think that really they're out of the ballpark altogether because they're not taking into account the fact that change is accelerating.
		Technical progress is really changing at an accelerating rate.
		And right now, for instance, we have accomplished or we are at a rate to accomplish as much technological change in the first 20 years of this century as we did in the entire last century.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the technology is increasing exponentially.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Exponentially.
		The rate of change is increasing so that from 2000 to 2020, we'll accomplish 100 years progression.
		Then again, from 2020 to 234, 14 years, we'll do another 100 years.
		Then in seven years, we'll do another 100 years.
		So that happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To what do you attribute this acceleration from what it otherwise ought to be?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, it just is the nature of this is what's happening and the bandwidth of computers, this is what's happening.
		If you take a lot of technological progress and plot them on a logarithmic curve, you'll notice that the curve is not straight, that it's actually also an exponential curve, which means that the rate of change is also increasing.
		So, it just seems to be the nature of technology, and now we're at the steep part of this curve.
		So, actually extrapolating this out, we anticipate that in the 21st century, we'll actually accomplish the equivalent of 20,000 years of change at today's rate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, a selfish question.
		At 59 and yourself 57, if we were to do the things that would get us decades further down the line, just decades, is there any hope, Doctor, that at some point, not only will you be able to virtually arrest age, I suppose, or aging, or maybe that's a whole separate question, but would there be a point where it could be rolled back to a more ideal point?
		In other words, made younger?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		I think that we'll approach these challenges one at a time.
		And the first challenge is really to extend human lifespan so that people our age will be able to take full advantage of these technologies that we've just started to hint at.
		For instance, women in Japan right now, the average life expectancy is 90 years.
		So if we were to just simply reach that average, that really gives us another 30-some years, which will probably allow us to take advantage of most of these technologies.
		So the first hurdle is to live long enough to take advantage of the technologies.
		The second hurdle will be to basically stop the aging process so that each year we don't really continue to age.
		And in some ways, we are able to measure the aging process.
		I have a machine in my office that actually measures biological age.
		And I measure the biological age of my patients.
		And I have seen in many cases where people undergo the type of therapies that we do in a longevity clinic that their biological age decreases.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you measure it?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, it measures a number of different parameters that are associated with aging.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		For instance, we know that the ability to hear high frequency deteriorates with age.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		So one of the tests that this, it's a computerized device, and one of the tests that the computerized device does is it measures high frequency hearing or hearing loss.
		Another thing that changes with age is memory.
		So the device plays a game with the patient like Othello, where you have to follow the buttons and remember 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and it keeps going, becoming more and more complex.
		So it also measures memory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think I've got the idea.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		And it does several other tests as well in terms of reaction time and lung function and things like that.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		And then it actually calculates what your biological age is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If somebody were to undergo all the currently available treatments for life extension and then were to take a test on your machine before and after, what are the best expectations, doctor?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		I have seen people roll back as much as 15 years, 16 years in their biological age.
		So I think that's a very impressive change.
		So, you know, we've seen cases where people look younger thanks to plastic surgery and things like that.
		Well, I think we can also make the insides younger through these other strategies, which are really at today what we refer to as the Bridge One strategies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		So with the Bridge One strategies, we can roll back the clock to some degree.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's touch on the Bridge One a little bit because it's what's happening right now.
		If you wanted to go through the full Magilla and do everything that's available to roll you back biologically, physiologically, how much would you spend?
		What would you do?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, some of the things are very inexpensive, and people can pick and choose how aggressive they want to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For instance, let's say it's me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want to be really aggressive.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		I want to do everything possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got the money to pay for it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What can be done?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, you'll begin, of course, with eating properly.
		We would discuss what would be an appropriate diet for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		And the first thing we would do is we would begin to remove simple sugars from your diet because sugar makes you old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That laugh you may have heard from the other room was my wife.
		I'm sorry.
		So an appropriate diet.
		So sugar makes you old?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Sugar makes you old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Of all of the foods that you can eat, probably nothing that makes you old quicker than simple sugar.
		So really, we call sugar the white Satan.
		We really encourage people to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		White Satan?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		The white Satan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad I drink my coffee black.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		That's a good start.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		But we're also talking about sugar in soft drinks.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		That's probably the biggest source of sugar for most Americans.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have a friend who's on his way out soon then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, he just won one after another after another, carbonated, totally addicted to carbonated drinks.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, the average American consumes somewhere in the neighborhood of 154 pounds of sugar a year, and that has increased also exponentially, unfortunately, over the past several decades.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		It was only in the neighborhood of 20 pounds or so at the beginning of the last century, so that's gone way, way up, and it's really been associated with a lot of degenerative diseases.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The white Satan seems a little stronger, maybe not.
		It really causes disease.
		It causes what to happen to you.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me give you an example.
		You've heard of the PET scan, which is a scan that is used to detect cancer cells.
		Well, as you may know, the PET scan uses radioactive sugar molecules to detect the cancer cells.
		Why is that?
		Because cancer cells are so avid in their uptake of sugar.
		So cancer cells love sugar.
		So when you want to feed a cancer cell, eat sugar.
		When you want to starve a cancer cell, avoid sugar.
		So the same thing applies to heart disease.
		And heart disease is the number one cause of death in the U.S., and cancer is the number two cause of death.
		And heart disease is also dramatically accelerated by consumption of sugar.
		So simply by reducing sugar consumption, you reduce your risk of heart disease and cancer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, let's put our cards on the table here.
		When we're talking about diet, are we talking about something where you might as well be dead anyway because you can eat nothing but chopped green things with other unrecognizable floating things around in there?
		Is that what you're reduced to?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		No, because some of these diets, if you follow them, you might not live any longer, but it'll certainly seem like you did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe that's because you're eating such horrid food every fight as a lifetime.
		Exactly.
		I lived with the Japanese for a decade, and I know the Japanese are their longevity record is pretty good, isn't it, compared to ours?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		It's very good.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		And I know that you've been to Okinawa, and I've been to Japan on several occasions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		And I've lectured over there, and I really love the Japanese, and I love their culture, and I love their food and their diet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And in fact, you've been to Japan.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I've been to Japan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you recall going in front of some Japanese bakery windows and inside in Japan, a restaurant or someplace that serves food, they put little plates out with a fake but very realistic looking food that you will get when you go inside?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's all displayed right there.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		They go on plastic plates of food.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		It didn't do much for me, I'll tell you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Shocks Americans.
		Anyway, I can recall going in and ordering this incredibly delicious-looking cupcake.
		Oh, my God.
		It was just wonderful.
unidentified		It had chocolate on the top and little sprinkles of cool stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I walked into this Japanese bakery.
		I got a couple of these big sugary cupcakes and I started eating.
		And you know what it all was?
unidentified		It was soy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Soy.
unidentified		It was the most disagreeable experience I ever had in my life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what they do.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		I've made trips to Japan each year for the past three years.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		And unfortunately, I have watched what has happened in Japan over the last three years, which is there's been a progression in the incidence of overweight Japanese.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Americanization of Japan.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		The Americanization of Japan.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		And I know you've been to Okinawa.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		And Okinawa is famous for a philosophy that they have over there called Hara Hachibu.
		And Hara Hachibu means stomach 80% full.
		And this practice is essentially reducing your calories so that you get up from the table not stuffed, so that you're still a little bit hungry even.
		And this Hara Hachibu philosophy is really a form of caloric restriction.
		And I think this is the reason that the Okinawans have more centenarians, people who live past 100 years than any place on Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They sure do.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		And when Okinawans, it's not because Okinawans have better genes than people elsewhere in Japan or elsewhere in the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's what they eat.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		It's the way they eat and what they eat.
		And when the Okinawans move to Hawaii, they live less long.
		And when they move to California, they live less yet.
		So it's really this caloric restriction and eating properly.
		So really, eating like the Japanese do, eating a lot of fish, drinking green tea, eating vegetables, not overdoing on the sweets.
		That's this type of lifestyle in this diet, I think, is really associated with longevity.
		So that's one of the fundamentals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're telling me then that the diet that you would have to assume would be much like the Okinawans?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Not necessarily.
		That's one type of diet.
		We also like the Mediterranean diet, the diet that's rich in tomato products and olive oil and fresh fish, a little bit of chicken, lots of fresh vegetables.
		That diet is also associated with longevity and is a very healthy diet.
		So people can pick and choose.
		They don't just need to eat sushi and octopus and things like that.
		People can pick what is right for them.
		And the diet that I follow is quite varied, and it's very enjoyable, and I don't eat sugar, but I do well with this diet, and I enjoy it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what percentage of the first-level treatments for longevity would diet represent?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What percent?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		I don't know that I can give it a precise number, but I think that's one of the most fundamental.
		If you eat a very bad diet, I think that it's hard to overcome a lot of the other factors, let's put it that way.
		So a significant percent.
		So let's say 20, 25 percent at least.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would it be the end of hamburgers, Doctor?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		No, not necessarily.
		But if you're going to eat hamburgers, it might be better to eat a very lean cut because it's not so much the meat as the fat in the meat.
		So eating a very lean cut of meat would be good.
		People have turkey burgers.
		People have buffalo burgers and hamburgers as well.
		But the leaner cuts are better to do.
		So it's not a matter of not eating them.
		It's just eating them.
		You know, don't eat them every day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turkey burgers.
		All right.
		Now, what other modalities, what other things can be done early on, right now, in fact, to extend age beyond that kind of eating?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, in addition to eating, I think we need to look at supplementation, the taking of nutrients that are not obtained in diet, antioxidants, vitamins, minerals, things along those lines.
		And we believe in an aggressive supplementation approach.
		So I think people can assess where they are biochemically at this stage of their life and then design a supplement program that will help them to actually, we referred to it, my co-author, Ray Kurzweil and I, he came up with the term to reprogram our biochemistry.
		And I think that's a very appropriate term.
		We can, with supplementation, actually reprogram our biochemistry to take advantage of the full expression of the Bridge One therapy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are these Bridge One therapies going to continue to be available?
		I mean, I've heard these horror stories of supplement stores being raided and somehow officialed them not wanting a lot of these things sold.
		Are some of these things valuable things that they don't want us to have and they're clamping down on?
		Or is it the fringe stuff that doesn't matter anyway?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		What I've heard, and I think in Europe they have more control.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Actually, the United States has considerable freedom as regards supplementation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure you've heard about the raids, though, Doctor.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I have.
		And this represents an unfortunate trend because we really have enjoyed considerable freedom in the ability.
		Like, for instance, in Australia, melatonin is illegal, and in Canada, DHA, I believe, is illegal.
		Every country has different laws.
		The United States is actually quite free with our ability to obtain supplements, and it would be a shame, very unfortunate, in this progress to eliminate that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that possible?
		I mean, might they begin to eliminate it?
		Are you worried about that?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm worried about it.
		So far, so good, because we do have a very large percentage of Americans do take supplementation.
		That was one thing that I found very surprising in Japan.
		Japan, very few people take supplements.
		Yes, based on, you know, we would do like genetic tests, measure certain genes that you have, find out what you're predisposed to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I'd come away with a list.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you'd come away with a list of supplements that would be of value to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold tight.
		We're at the top of the hour.
		From the high desert in the middle of the night, I'm Art Bell.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
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art bell ▲ ● ▼		It certainly is.
		And my guest is Dr. Terry Grossman, who just finished telling us how good turkey would be for us.
		We're discussing honor of possibility eventually, of living forever, and certainly of severe life extension, much of it possible beginning, really, right now.
		And if you didn't know that, you're going to want to listen very carefully.
		I am not a big turkey fan, he says, as it comes toward Thanksgiving and another opportunity to eat turkey.
		I once took a flight to Puerto Rico, and I was going to name the airlines, but I guess I won't.
		And, you know, it's finally mealtime, and, you know, it's a pretty long trip from the west coast to Puerto Rico.
		Anyway, so the stewardess comes up, and they hand out a little thing with the meal.
		This was back in the days when they actually served meals on airliners, serious meals.
		And there was a menu, you know.
		And you know what the choice was?
		The choice was turkey burgers.
		Actually, it said burgers and then turkey in parentheses.
		So turkey burgers.
		You know, I'm not a big turkey burger person, so I and then the other choices were, so you'd get turkey burgers, turkey ham, or turkey.
		That was the choice.
unidentified		Turkey burgers, turkey ham, or turkey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I wrote a scathing letter to the airline in question, and I told them it was a foul choice indeed.
		Once again, Dr. Terry Grossman.
		So we're discussing two levels.
		Level two, of course, is pretty magical.
		That'll be when stem cells, for example, as one example, can be ordered to grow you a new organ.
		That's level two.
		It's not that many years away.
		It's the level one stuff that may get those of you who are listening right now to that stage or even a little further.
		And we're not quite done.
		So far, level one is, I don't know, I guess what you would expect.
		Get a better diet, eat better.
unidentified		Turkey burgers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turkey burgers.
		And supplements, a laundry list of supplements that would be designed or set for you by a doctor who knows what he's doing, like Dr. Grossman.
		What else in level one?
		What about these growth hormones, that kind of thing?
		Where does that fit in, Doctor?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I like the use of bioidentical hormone replacement to help with the diseases of aging.
		There's been a lot of controversy lately, as I'm sure you know, with regard to certainly women's hormone replacement therapy with the Women's Health Initiative trial.
		And a lot of women have found themselves without the ability to get prescriptions for these hormones that have been shown to not only help the symptoms of menopause, but actually help with the aging process itself.
		So we've resorted to using bioidentical hormones and luckily bioidentical hormones, which are the identical hormone to what's found naturally in the body.
		So we don't replace premarin, excuse me, we don't replace progesterone with a progestin, such as provera.
		We replace progesterone with progesterone.
		We replace estrogen with estrogen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
		Well, what's the diff?
		In other words, these identical but different in what way?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, for instance, when a woman takes provera, which is a very common synthetic progestin, it is a completely different molecule than progesterone that's found naturally in a woman's body.
		And when a woman takes primarin, it is actually a derivative of pregnant mare's urine, and that's why it's called premarin, pregnant mare urine.
		This product has a lot of hormones that are similar to what a woman has, but it has a very different ratio of hormones.
		And it also has a number of hormones that are specific for horses and are not found in the human female.
		So when women take these artificial hormones, they sometimes have some side effects that they don't seem to get when they take the bioidentical hormones.
		So therefore, by using bioidentical hormones, we can achieve these benefits without the downsides.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do they get?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hunger for hay?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		No, not exactly.
		But, you know, like the Women's Health Initiative did find that women who took the Premerin Provera had a higher incidence of heart attacks.
		And it was interesting because the study was designed to show that these hormones actually reduced the risk of heart attacks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so it showed something else instead.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		And they got a surprise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's how the great controversy grew.
		So you think that what did you call them again?
		I'm sorry.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Bioidentical.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bioidentical hormones.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so we're using hormones, bioidentical hormones, to replace hormones.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you know that bioidentical hormones I mean, has the same study been done with respect to heart problems or whatever?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		There have been some small studies that have suggested that the bioidentical hormones are safer.
		We don't have any large studies like the Women's Health Initiative, which had over 15,000 women in them.
		But the preliminary, smaller studies with the bioidentical suggest that these may be free of the side effects associated with the other hormones.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And can men also get shots of bioidentical hormones that are beneficial or not?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		And men actually do go through a male menopause.
		And after about age 50, what happens with men is their male hormones, their testosterone levels, begin to decline somewhat.
		But even more importantly, their estrogen levels tend to increase.
		And most people don't realize this, but the average 55-year-old man has more estrogen circulating in his bloodstream than an average 55-year-old woman.
		And where estrogen is beneficial and a youth-providing hormone for a woman, for a man, it doesn't promote youth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow, that's a wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had no idea that was so.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		The average 55-year-old man has probably have more estrogen in our bodies than women our age, significantly more.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Feel fouled.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is a problem because estrogen in men, while it has some advantages, men do have to have some estrogen because it actually helps our minds.
		It's associated with a decreased chance of Alzheimer's disease.
		So we need some estrogen, but too much actually is what causes problems with the prostate and some other issues.
		So we need to control our estrogens, and we can do this with some of our supplements that we take.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		And these bioidentical hormones would be administered how?
		Orally.
		Orally or topically.
		Oh, really?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		One of the main problems with these bioidentical hormones and why the drug companies resorted to the use of the artificial hormones was because if you take estrogen just as estrogen or progesterone that's identical to what's found in the body or testosterone and put it in a pill and swallow it, it is immediately destroyed by stomach acid.
		So what they needed to do initially was they formulated into a gel or a cream that men and women could apply typically to their skin.
		Now they have a micronized form or a sublingual form that dissolves under the tongue.
		And in these formulations, men and women can get these hormones into their bodies to help produce the effects, the desired effects, without resorting to the artificial hormones.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How profound is it?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		As an anti-aging strategy, I think it has some value.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		As a life extension strategy, I don't think we found that these hormone Replacements have any significant effect in extending life, but they maintain the quality of the life that we have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's important.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		So it's squaring the curve so that we don't decline as we age, but we stay at a high level.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what else in level one?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, there's, of course, the usual things like controlling stress.
		Stress is an ager.
		I mentioned one hormone, or excuse me, one chemical that was associated with aging, and that chemical is sugar.
		Another chemical that's very profoundly associated with aging is cortisol.
		And cortisol is a stress hormone.
		And cortisol both ages you and destroys your mind.
		And they've done experiments where they've taken laboratory animals like mice and taught them to run a maze and then given them injections of cortisol, a stress hormone, and the mice promptly forgot how to run the maze.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And when we do that to ourselves, and cortisol is unfortunately a concomitant of modern living, we're all subject to low-grade stress all the time.
		It's not the fight or flight of the cavemen and then relaxing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a very stressful, very stressful world, doctor.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		I don't recall almost any patient that I ask if they have a stressful lifestyle and they say no.
		I mean, it's very rare that people say to me, oh, no, I don't have any stress, or I don't have any significant stress in my life.
		I think it's just a concomitant of the age that we live in.
		But anyway, it is, so controlling cortisol, and you can do that through one of the other pyramids of the Bridge One therapies, which is exercise.
		Exercise will reduce stress.
		And meditation or prayer, whatever it is that reduces stress for that individual is the value, going to yoga classes, things like that.
		So that's a very, very important part.
		And I think perhaps one of the most important of all, and the thing that will give people a payoff almost immediately, is the early detection of disease.
		And I had mentioned the two big killers in the United States, heart disease and cancer.
		And heart disease, we had very imprecise means of detecting heart disease until it was too late.
		A la Bill Clinton.
		Here's a man who had access to the best medical care, yet he ended up having heart disease undetected until he needed essentially an emergency bypass.
		Well, we have technology that enables doctors to detect heart disease five or ten years before its clinical expression.
		In other words, before people develop chest pain or have a heart attack.
		And those technologies involve the use of non-invasive testing.
		Up until recently, we had to do a catheter, which was inserted in the groin and then inject dye into the heart, which is very invasive and actually associated with a certain small percent risk of fatality.
		So we're not going to do that as a screening test.
		It's too dangerous and it's too expensive.
		But if we can do that with a CAS scan, and we can now, then we can detect heart disease before it becomes manifest, and then patients can be put on appropriate supplementations, appropriate dial, lifestyle changes, and medicine if needed, then we can stop heart disease from occurring.
		And I think in most cases, heart disease is preventable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All of these things taken together then might give you decades if you did them all similarly.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		If you take them all together, I think we are talking about decades.
		So we're talking about people our age in the late 50s.
		If we can add a decade or two to our life, that flips us under the wire when these Bridge 2 and then ultimately Bridge 3 therapies will begin to kick in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about the brain?
		I guess we understand less about the brain than nearly any other organ in our body, truly.
		So isn't there the danger of the physical body being quite healthy, but a mental deterioration making it all absolutely not worthwhile?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
		If we are unable to experience our lives and our brain is the interface through which we experience reality, if we don't have a functioning mind, we don't know what's going on, then it's all for nothing.
		But I think that the same strategies that keep our bodies healthy will also keep our minds healthy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think so?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even at latter stages, when you get to stage two, for example, bridge two strategies will help.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		For instance, I'm lucky in one way, in that genetically, one of my grandparents lived to be almost 105.
		And he was very sharp, and his memory was perfectly intact.
		And when he just died suddenly of a stroke shortly before his 105th birthday, he still, his faculties were quite good.
		And I think people can do that.
		I think he kept his mind alive.
		He was fluent in a half a dozen languages.
		He read in all of those languages.
		And by keeping your mind active, I think we can, the brain is like that, like a muscle.
		We keep the brain active.
		I think we can maintain, and once again, avoiding excessive stress, because over the course of decades, excessive stress will attack the mind and actually kill neurons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		In our society, there are societies where stress is relatively low.
		Our society is definitely not one of those.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		No, we're not living in a French-Polynesian type of world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, we're a real type A personality, and the stress is everywhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And yet we have increased our longevity quite significantly already in modern day, haven't we?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, absolutely.
		But I think we can do even more by, you know, I don't think it's possible to really eliminate stress from our lives.
		And I think we all need stress in our lives because without stress, there really is no you just become too complacent.
		And, you know, you don't accomplish much with your life.
		I think stress is actually a good thing in limited amounts.
		It's just where stress spirals out of control and interferes with health that it's a bad thing.
		And when it becomes a discomfort, then we have to take measures to control it through the other strategies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've discussed Bridge 2, which to us today seems magic, the stem cells, and there's probably more, isn't there?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What else is in Bridge 2?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, we hinted on, you mentioned telomere therapy, and the telomeres are the end caps of the chromosomes, and every time the chromosome divides, telomere comes off.
		There are these beads at the end of the chromosomes, and there is an enzyme called telomerase, which keeps the end caps on.
		And with telomere-telomerase strategies, we may be able to extend life.
		That's one of the therapies.
		We had hinted a little bit about therapeutic cloning.
		Therapeutic cloning is the creation of organs and tissues, the creation of a heart muscle, the creation of a cornea or a bone or things like that, or even an entire heart.
		But we're not talking about reproductive cloning, a la Dali.
		We're not talking about creating clones of ourselves, but harnessing, cloning, therapeutic cloning, where we create tissues and organs that we need.
		This is a wonderful strategy that could lead to many, many decades of additional life for people.
		Proteomics and genomics.
		Genomics is therapy that's available today.
		It's a diagnostic modality where we can actually look and see what genes people have.
		Because if you know, for instance, that you're predisposed to get Alzheimer's disease, then there's certain things you can do to reduce your risk.
		And if you know that you're predisposed to developing lung cancer, for instance, then you want to be very, very careful to live the type of life that reduces your risks of that.
		So with the genomic therapies, you can do that today, which has only been available in the last few years.
		And then that will lead to what's called proteomics therapies, where by knowing what genes you have, genes express themselves by making proteins, you can actually design proteins to accomplish specific goals or to block certain genes.
		So we have all types of therapies to affect genes, gene-based therapies, that will lead to dramatic increases in lifespan and health.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you do believe, don't you, that someday, some year, some decade, it's going to be possible to virtually keep people alive, well, let's put it this way, for as long as they would like to be?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		I think so.
		I think we're really on that steep part of the exponential curve of lifespan.
		And I think later this century, and it's not that many decades off, perhaps the next two decades, three decades, we're going to approach lifespans that are very, very significantly longer.
		And it's hard to calculate what they're going to be, but I think they may be Drastically longer than what we're accustomed to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, there's even wild as Bridge 2 has been, there's going to be a Bridge 3?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Bridge 3 is what we're really, that's the really killer app here.
		And that's what's going to, when that kicks in, we're going to be talking about lifespans that are currently unfathomable.
		And Bridge 3 really relies, Bridge 3 relies on the biotechnology revolution.
		Bridge 3 relies on the nanotechnology revolution.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And Bridge 3 underway, if it were underway today, what can you imagine our prospects would be?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bridge 3 is fully in use today.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		If Bridge 3 were in use today, then I think that we would be able to remain useful essentially for an indefinite period of time.
		If we wanted to be 25 years of age and look 25 and have a 25-year-old brain, I think with the Bridge 3 therapies at full fruition, it's not unrealistic that we could remain 25 for an indefinite period of time.
		And then the only thing that really would interfere with our continued survival would be an accident.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, I'm really glad you brought up the question of accident because after the break, I've got something I would like to read to you.
		And just as a very quick question all the way from Mike in Korea, writing all the way from Korea, he says, greetings from South Korea, great show.
		What's the doctor's opinion of severe caloric restrictive diets and extending life?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, caloric restriction is an animal experiment, the only therapy that we have found so far to actually extend lifespan.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Hold that thought.
		We'll come back to it.
		And to Dr. Terry Grossman, middle of the night, middle of the darkness.
		This is coast to coast A.M. So you want to live forever?
		I'll take that as a yes at about 2 in the morning.
unidentified		It's 2 a.m.
		The sun is still warm.
		I'll do my best.
		I'll find you a chance.
		2 a.m.
		The heart of me is dark to me to have to be happy.
		Before the magic out of the way In the morning with the night Playing in the shadows I'm up to the night To the morning light To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
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		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
		It is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen to here.
		My guest is a highly credentialed physician, professor, Terry Grossman, anti-aging, and he's described several bridges.
		And we're on bridge one right now.
		That's a time when you can actually extend your life by several decades if you do the right things.
		We've described bridge two, which begins to get a little more magical.
		You know, the stem cells, things like that, telomeres.
		Then there's bridge three.
		And bridge three is what we're talking about right now.
		Bridge three means that you virtually would have the opportunity to live forever, save the possibility of an accident.
		I'm going to bring that one up in a moment.
		Not science fiction.
		You're listening to, you know, the real thing this morning.
		Both what can be done now and what's coming.
		And I got a very interesting email from a fellow named Joel.
		And Joel just asks some really superb questions.
		So I want to be sure that Joel gets credit for the email for the questions.
		These are good ones, Joel.
		And here's where it begins.
		Orion Art.
		On Coast to Coast tonight, please, if you would, talk about the increasing mathematical probability of death by accident as we get older.
		Check this out.
		About 25 years ago, I read somewhere that the probability of accidental death approached 99 plus percent during a 700-year human lifespan.
		To put it another way, if humans had the natural ability to live to be 1,000 years old, then 99% of us would be dead by age 700, even in good health, because there was a 99% probability of death by accidental cause during the first 700 years of life.
		Doctor?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Arch.
		These mathematical models have been done by statisticians up till now.
		And I don't know what the exact figures are, and I don't know what models they used to build this.
		But I think he's pretty close to correct on these.
		Because if we reach the point where the Bridge Tree technologies are in full blossom and we are able to live on it for an indefinite period thanks to these technologies, then really the only thing we need to worry about is some sort of accident or catastrophe, if you would.
		And the statistical models indicate that that sort of catastrophe would occur somewhere, like the bell-shaped curve, would be somewhere in the neighborhood of 300, 400 years.
		So half the people would die somewhere around that time, and then a few would live well beyond that.
		But I think he's right at 700 years, the overwhelming majority of people would have, during that 700 years, suffered a fatal accident.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wouldn't people freak out?
		I mean, wouldn't they all of a sudden adopt this never-get-out-of-bed psychology?
		Wouldn't there begin to be a psychosis that would spread across the land like wildfire now that you can virtually live forever?
		All you've got to fear is an accident.
		So we'd become so damn safety conscious that we'd have warning labels on pens.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'd like to be there to try to deal with that problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't think I can hear you.
		All right.
		Well, all right.
		But you think his figures are based on the problem.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Those are the models that I've heard of.
		Now, it may be what we're not taking into account here, and what these mathematical models are not taking into account, is that technology is not just going to allow people to live longer, technology is also going to allow people to maybe reduce the likelihood of these accidents and to make the world a safer place.
		So there's all sorts of things that we're not taking into account.
		We're basing these statistics on today's world and maybe even today's response to these dangers.
		So these may change in tandem with our technological advancement that will allow us to live longer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Number two from Joel is as follows.
		Is it possible that currently unknown adverse medical conditions could occur in the age group of 200 years of age and older?
		For example, I doubt there was much occurrence of Alzheimer's disease 500 years ago because very few people ever lived long enough to get it.
		So his question is a very interesting one.
		In other words, there might be some new terrible malady that would occur around 200.
		Is that possible?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		It's certainly possible, but I don't think it's too likely.
		Or even if it were likely, I think that we would have the same technologies that enable us to deal with the aging process itself would enable us to deal with that disease process itself.
		So I think that it's possible, but I think it would be treatable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Possible, but treatable.
		The example he gave was a pretty good one, Alzheimer's.
		500 years ago, I'm sure he's right.
		Very few ever got Alzheimer's.
		They didn't live that long, period.
		So they wouldn't have even discovered Alzheimer's until relatively modern times.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's true.
		But I think that the technologies that will be coming in bridge through, the nanotechnology, will really make it possible that Alzheimer's is relegated to the dustbin of history.
		It won't be an active problem in the future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		And then finally, Joel says, is it possible that humans are genetically wired so that some latent brain functions, like mental telepathy, for example, appear routinely in all humans after a certain age?
		For example, 200 years old.
		For example, human reproduction ability doesn't start until around age 12, right?
		And then after that age group, all folks have reproduction ability.
		So, I mean, there are things that occur at landmark ages in the aging process itself, yes?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it's certainly possible.
		I don't know if that's true.
		Something like telepathy would be expressed at a certain advanced age.
		It's certainly possible.
		But I think that with the nanotechnology that's coming, we will be able to achieve virtual mental telepathy with essentially having ourselves wired to one another with Internet access built into ourselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Brain implants.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, something along those lines.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		I think that those will enable us to have Internet capability.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, what about one other thing?
		We're racing ahead in the computer world in both speed and storage.
		I'm sure you're well familiar with the advances we're making in the computer world.
		They're astounding.
		And one day, many people think it may be possible to download the contents of one's brain into a computer.
		Into a computer.
		So that you have downloaded yourself out of this physical body and into a bunch of what we call chips today.
		They may not be chips then, but chips today we call them.
		So have you looked into that?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think we're exploring what this means, and the idea of downloading memories, which I think will be doable in the not-too-distant future, will also be doable.
		But no one's looking to download the memories and then upload them into a computer chip and live a virtual existence.
		It's certainly not my goal to get rid of biology altogether.
		Instead, what I look for in anti-aging medicine, longevity medicine, is to perfect human potential.
		And I'm not looking to interfere with that indescribable human essence that we refer to as consciousness or the soul.
		I think that we were looking to enhance, not replace the human body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To those people out in the audience right now who would say, look, this is all interesting, but you know what?
		I'm a biological person.
		I believe aging is a natural process.
		I look forward to my soul's reward for the wonderful life that I've led so far on this earth.
		A little personal laughter.
		And so I'm not into all of this.
		Aging is a natural, well, it's nature.
		And I look forward to the reward there on the other side, or whatever's waiting.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I certainly think that everyone is entitled to do whatever they want or not do what they want.
		But as human beings, we as a species were not content to live the 18 or 30 years that we were given to our ancestors thousands of years ago.
		Life back then was very, very difficult and filled with hazards.
		And really, the ultimate goal of all of the advances we've had over the last centuries has been to improve human performance, to alleve suffering, and to extend life.
		Now we're just moving to a point where we're doing it a little bit better than we've done in the past.
		So if people don't want to do that, you know, I guess it's just a matter of where do you draw the line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you do understand that there are people with belief systems and frankly, those perhaps who don't have them that are quite content with the way it's laid out today and how it works and the fact that our life ends at a certain time.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		But what happens when they get pneumonia?
		There are certain subgroups of society that don't treat pneumonia with antibiotics, but most people, the overwhelming majority, when they are challenged with a life-threatening disease, they seek medical care to treat it.
		So as long as the quality of life is good, I mean, if you're healthy and you're feeling good, if you have a disease that could be easily cured by technologies that are available, I just don't think people are going to turn their back on these technologies, whether they occur at age 18 or whether they occur at age 112.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you think it would be the foxhole conversion kind of deal?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Say one thing now, but if it came right down to it, give me that liver.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		The question is, who'd want to live to be 120 anyway?
		And the answer is, just ask anybody who's 119.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So really, is that really true?
		I mean, I know that it sounds good to say that, but is it really, really true?
		Or are a lot of people who are 100 and well, there aren't a lot of people 119.
		Oldest living person just here died recently, as a matter of fact.
		But there are people on up there in their 90s or so, and there are a lot of people who say, I'm ready to go.
		Or do you believe that just really, honestly isn't true?
		There aren't people who are ready to go and to be done with life that that just couldn't be true.
		Do you really believe that?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm a doctor, and I've, in the course of my practice career, I've seen a lot of patients who are on both sides of that question.
		There are patients who are, at any age, I've seen patients who are quite young, and they've had enough because life has really dealt them a pretty bad hand to play, and their life really has been very, very difficult and filled with suffering.
		And I also know people who are very, very advanced in years and have enjoyed life and don't want to give it up at all.
		And they fight and fight and fight.
		And they actually overcome very critical illnesses.
		So it just depends on the individual circumstance.
		I don't think we can assess a specific age or answer that question.
		It really is an individual matter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, here's sort of a medical question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of those people who meet up with a life-challenging disease or condition, of those who have an incredibly strong will to live and beat their disease, as opposed to those who just give up and allow it to consume them and say goodbye mentally, how much difference in cure rate is there?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		I think it's very substantial.
		I have seen people recover from illnesses that I did not think they had much chance.
		And yet they overcame it.
		And I think it was due to a combination of their will to live, the prayers and well-wishes of many people around them, a number of circumstances that are above and beyond.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait, wait.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Prayers.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You said also due to the prayers.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		Well, oh, really?
		Do you believe there is a conscious existence or that the soul or any other part of us or our consciousness survives physical death, Doctor?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		You know, I have my own religious beliefs.
		I don't know if I want to go into those right now, but I do believe that when people pray or when they pray for someone else's health, I agree with you, it works.
		They're putting this very powerful energy into the world, this healing energy, that actually helps.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You believe that?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		I do believe that, and I believe it's been documented.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		In the What Bleep Do You Know movie that came out recently, they showed a molecular structure, spectrographic analysis of water that was prayed over by Buddhist monks, I believe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		And it showed this incredibly elegant structure.
		And then they had this water that was also very ugly words of anger were said over, and it had a very ugly structure.
		So I think we actually have physical documentation that by putting this type of positive healing energy into the world, you can actually affect change in the world.
		You can create that.
		So from that point of view, I do think that well-wishes and prayer can help in the healing process.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I agree with you.
		Absolutely agree.
		Thank you very much.
		But I'm going to rephrase the question a little.
		Doctor, as a scientist, as a physician, how would you answer that question?
		Just forget about the religious faith for a second.
		As a scientist and a doctor?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		As a scientist and a doctor, in terms of is there consciousness after the physical plane, as a scientist and doctor, I have to say, I don't know.
		That's the only honest answer I can say, because I don't have any scientific evidence that would lead me to believe anything.
		What I feel as a human may be different, but as a scientist, I don't see anything.
		There's been no proof to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's fairly unusual that you would say, I don't know.
		Most scientists and doctors I have on the air, and there have been many of them over the years, give me an honest answer of no art.
		I don't think there's any existence after physical death in any form whatsoever.
		I mean, they're fairly sure about that.
		And these are your colleagues.
		So would you guess that to be true?
		Would you guess yourself to be a somewhat of an exception?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Perhaps.
		I just know what I do believe.
		And the only thing I can say is, you know, this is a question that I just don't know how science can answer.
		So it's beyond the realm of science.
		So I can't give a definitive answer one way or the other.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's very enlightened, believe me.
		People among your profession, that's very enlightened indeed.
		Most just come right out and say no.
		What do you think convinces so many scientists and physicians that it's probably all a bunch of hooey?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, science tends to require evidence, the scientific method.
		And you really need to have evidence.
		It's an evidence-based approach.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		And when he's talking about issues outside of what's our reality and can be demonstrated scientifically, I think scientists, as a rule, are a group that gravitates towards what is in the here and now.
		And anything that they cannot demonstrate with an experiment or in the laboratory bench or things like that, they just tend to discount as not being possible.
		It's not true.
		So perhaps they might want to give an answer, a more direct answer of no, it's not possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they do.
		They do, in great numbers indeed.
		So when you get in, I would imagine you've had some lively conversations with other physicians, probably through medical school and all your life, I would guess, huh?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Oh, certainly.
		The type of medicine that I practice in my clinic is not really mainstream.
		So, you know, there's a lot of room for discussion about a lot of things that I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's say that you had 700 years of life barring an accident.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't there the concern that you'd virtually get bored to death?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think, once again, if we were to live a life like we're living today and not anything else change, we have the same type of reality, yes, it would get boring.
		But I think that part of the nanotechnology revolution will also bring a revolution in the ability to experience reality.
		And things like virtual reality, real virtual reality, will enhance our quality of life so much.
		With nanobots, these are the nanobiotic robots that will be circulating throughout our brain, expanding human consciousness and intelligence.
		I mean, we potentially will be so much more intelligent than we are now, able to think so much more quickly and assimilate so much more information that I don't think we will get bored in the future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So instead of television programs, we might choose to have the real experience, to in some way live the life of somebody who's led a very exciting life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's one possibility, isn't it?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, what was hinted at as being John Melsovich, for instance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Hold on, Doctor.
		We'll be right back to you, and we'll be taking calls too.
		Dr. Terry Grossman is my guest.
		We'll tell you all about his books and how to get them as we come back in the night.
		I'm Art Bell.
		And this, of course, is Coast to Coast A.M. Don't touch that dial.
unidentified		Sweet Jesus made of the end.
		Whoever might do this are we.
		I travel the world and I've never seen everybody that's looking for something.
		Some of them want to use you.
		Some of them want to get used by you.
		Some of them want to abuse you.
		And he asks you to tell him you've seen and we talk about everything.
		He's got the dream of fire finds some land.
		He's gonna give up the booze and one night's spend.
		And then he'll settle down to quiet a little down and forget about everything.
		You know he's gonna be never gonna be a good one.
		When you wake up, it's a new morning.
		The sun is shining, it's a new morning.
		You're gone, you're gone now.
		You're gone, you're gone.
		To talk with Art Bell, form a wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free, 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast A.M. with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And this is Not Science Fiction.
		My guest, a well-credentialed physician, Dr. Terry Grossman, and he's telling us that we're on Bridge 1 right now.
		Right now, that means decades of extra life if you want to go on the regimen.
		Bridge two is just ahead, and it's going to mean a lot more life than Bridge three.
		Well, seven hundred-year-old human beings.
		Seven hundred years.
		Eight hundred, nine hundred, a thousand, fifteen hundred years.
		It may only depend on whether or not you have an accident.
		We're going to certainly become a very polite, careful society, aren't we, under those conditions?
		More in a moment.
		If life continued virtually indefinitely, which is what would be the case with Level 3, as is being described this morning by Dr. Grossman, that would bring on many changes, as the MASH theme song would reflect.
		Remember that?
		Suicide brings on many changes.
		Well, so does living indefinitely, many changes.
		And one of them would be overpopulation.
		We would have, well, I can imagine a world, for example, where a young mother, I guess they'd all be young, holding a baby would be regarded as a selfish, life-worth-sucking person who's just sucking the life out of the rest of the world because there are already too many people here.
		Can you imagine that, Doctor?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't think so, Art.
		I don't think that's the way things will be.
		Because what we're seeing in the first world economies, in the first world countries today, in many parts of the world, like in Europe and in Japan, we've already achieved zero population growth and even negative population growth.
		So I think with increased technology and increased wealth, that won't be an issue.
		As technology spreads and people live longer, they actually tend to have smaller families.
		So I don't think that that will be the case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think people are having smaller families, Doctor?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Some might say it's selfish.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, the motivation for large families in the undeveloped world really is twofold.
		Firstly, it relates to a lot of the loss of children early in life.
		And in fact, I've heard that in a lot of the undeveloped world, mothers don't bond that closely to their children until they reach about three or four years of age, because so many of them die before reaching that age.
		So part of it is because so many children die.
		And another reason is in the undeveloped world, there is no social security.
		There's no safety net for people should they be fortunate enough to live into old age.
		So they need a large number of children, at least a few that survive into adulthood, to take care of them.
		Those issues do not exist in the developed world where there's very little, very few pregnancies, term pregnancies don't end in a healthy child, and we do have a safety net in terms of Social Security.
		So those preconditions don't exist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, wouldn't there have to be some sort of control implemented?
		I mean, good Lord, if people were living to be 700 years old, the changes would Social Security system goodbye.
		I mean, we're worried about it today.
		That would do the trick entirely.
		And I guess you would envision a world in which people were productive through 700 years, where they were working and building up gigantic bank accounts.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think that things have to change from that point of view.
		If we're talking about a life expectancy of 200 years, then retirement at 62 is not realistic anymore.
		We can't anticipate that other people are going to provide 138 years of Social Security for someone.
		So with these additional years of life, come additional responsibilities, too.
		But I don't think that people will really need to work as much because we need to take into account the fact that this longer lifespan isn't the only change that's going to take place.
		And in fact, the same forces and the same technologies that allow for this radical extension of human life will bring tremendously positive additional benefits.
		And chief among those is the low cost of producing goods that nanotechnology will bring about.
		We haven't even begun to talk about what nanotechnology is, but nanotechnology just has the ability to drive down the price of goods and services to a negligible amount.
		And just one technological advance that's being discussed is there is a nanotechnological solar panel that, if it were implemented, it's only a few molecules thick, very, very expensive, almost a spray-on type of device, that was able to convert solar energy into usable energy.
		And they've calculated that if we were able to harness 0.07% of the solar energy, we would be able to meet the entire energy needs of the world with a population of almost 10 billion by the year, say, 2030.
		So, you know, this is the type of technology that we anticipate coming along at the same time.
		The nanotechnology that allow us to live longer will also bring these engineering marvels.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you aware of any studies, Doctor, that have looked at the world's environment and the number of people in the world and concluded what would be a scientifically appropriate number of people for the planet to comfortably support?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I have, but I find the same type of thinking applies to those projections as applied to what I've referred to again and again, which is they're not taking into account the fact that the new technologies will enable us to clean up the environment more effectively, that the new technologies will allow us to grow our foods without the use of so many pesticides, et cetera.
		So we won't be polluting as much.
		If we had these solar panels in place, we wouldn't be burning any more coal.
		We wouldn't be creating the pollution.
		We wouldn't be having cars that have these type of exhausts.
		So it wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem in the first place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're extremely optimistic, Doctor, and you think that not only will science be able to make our butts, but it'll save our butts.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		That's the promise of nanotechnology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Unfortunately, it also has peril.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And nothing can go wrong.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course it can.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		And in fact, Eric Dreckler, who was the originator of the term nanotechnology and first advocated these ideas in his book Engines of Creation, Eric Dreckler's chief concern has been harnessing this technology so that it is used for good because it also has incredibly great destructive power.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Grey goo, Doctor.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		The gray goo theory, exactly, where the nanobots run amok and just digest the whole world into unrecognizable mess.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		So we really need to put the safety valve in place simultaneously with this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
		I might as well extend this then into another question.
		Grey goo aside for a moment, we actually now have the ability to effectively eliminate our presence on the planet.
		Now, we could do that with a full-on nuclear exchange.
		There'd be no living things left.
		So really, it's a very good question to ask you.
		I mean, all these wonderful medical advances that you see coming in bridges ahead, and then wondering about whether, you know, as we make all these advances, equal dangers are going to come with each wonderful new advance, equal greater dangers.
		And we already have great enough danger we could eliminate ourselves.
		So do you think we'll actually get there safely?
		You're an optimist, so you probably do.
		Or do you think there's a great chance that we will torch ourselves?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're right.
		I am an optimist, and I do think that we will survive this.
		But I also agree that we will need to be very, very cautious and make sure that these technologies have built-in safety valves so that they're not allowed to fall into the wrong hands, or if they do fall into the wrong hands, that we will have effective antidotes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think our hands are the right hands?
		That's a really good question.
		I mean, we did drop the bomb on Japan.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we did.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		And I hope that this type of thinking has, you know, not only has the other side learned, but I think more importantly, we have learned.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think so?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		I hope so.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		I can't be 100% certain, but I hope so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, when you look around the world today and you look at this terrorism thing and, you know, they're trying to get their hands on a nuke and, oh, geez, Muller or something just gave Osama bin Laden permission to use nukes religiously.
		You know, it was okay to kill millions of Americans.
		It's a pretty dangerous world, all in all, out there right now.
		And looking at current world trends, conditions, and all of history, I wonder how you can be that optimistic.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, so far, so good.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if you look at human history, we haven't destroyed ourselves so far.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, true.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		And in each state, there's been an equal measure of chance of destruction, and it hasn't happened to date.
		So just looking at the historical model, there's no reason to expect that all of a sudden that things are going to end catastrophically.
		There is a chance, and there's always been that chance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But as we advance, the darker side of these advances in technology become almost all of them, if the wrong thing is done, total global mistakes.
		Erasure of the human race by some horrible strain, newly invented and released strain of something.
		The world doctor has also recently shown it's got no shortage of people willing to give their lives to take as many lives as they can when they go.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're absolutely right.
		But I think that in equal measure, we'll develop the means to combat those terrors.
		So to that degree, the technology that allows the destruction to occur also allows the protection against that destruction to occur.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hope you're right.
		All right.
		We have a lot of people waiting on the line who would very much like to talk to you, so let's try a little bit of that, huh?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Oh, great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller online, you're on the air with Dr. Terry Grossman.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hello, Art.
		Trissa, I must tell you that it's a joy to have you back on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		My name is Bianca.
unidentified		I'm from New Jersey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Dr. Grossman, about 35 years ago, I went to a clinic in Switzerland because I had a serious liver problem and I was on the verge of diabetes.
		And I was given injections of embryonic cells from lambs, unborn lambs.
		And since that time, which is over 30 years ago, I have not had any problem.
		And I was wondering.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's amazing.
unidentified		I was wondering if you're familiar with that therapy and if it exists in the United States today.
		And if not, why not?
		Because it would seem to me that taking those cells from a lamb would avoid a lot of the moral issues.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Before you answer, Doctor, ma'am, I've really got a couple of questions, if you wouldn't mind.
		Sure.
		I'm really curious about what you've just said.
		What was your diagnosis when you went to Switzerland?
unidentified		Well, I had, as I say, some liver problems.
		And I was on the verge of diabetes.
		And I'm also totally blind.
		And they gave me some cells from eyes, but that didn't work.
		But the rest of my system went back to normal, and I've been healthy.
		Right now, I'm 67, and I have other problems, and I was just wondering whether this therapy might be available in this country now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, have you heard of what this lady did, doctor?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I have, and I believe what it's referred to is called live cell therapy.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		And it does involve the injection of it's not embryonic stem cells, but it's actually fetal cells from lamb fetuses.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		And this live cell therapy is done at some of the health spas in Switzerland, and I know people have gone over for these therapies and reported good results.
		There are no such spas like that, to my knowledge, in the United States, but I have been to medical conferences where these live cell injections are for sale.
		I have not utilized them, and I don't know any doctors that do utilize them, but I know that they are available in the United States.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's still amazing, absolutely amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you attribute your cure to that, ma'am.
unidentified		Absolutely.
		There was nothing else.
		They were, at that time, extremely expensive.
		The doctor said they were for sale.
		They were $1,000 an injection.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		I think the price has come down somewhat since then, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ma'am, I don't know how to thank you enough for calling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, take care of it.
		Really good call.
		Wow.
		So there's some...
		I mean, are we overly cautious in the United States, way too cautious?
		Should we be approving some of these things that otherwise people have to do if she didn't go to another continent to get?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a double-edged sword in the United States.
		With the recent Viox scandal, we're seeing that it's very, very difficult.
		You know, on the one hand, we want to have access to medications, the latest medications, as soon as possible.
		But on the other hand, we don't get the evidence that they're safe sometimes for several years afterwards, and then this leads to massive lawsuits.
		So it really is a difficult quandary that both the drug development companies find themselves in, and we as patients find ourselves in, that we want these therapies, but we want them to be safe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the question was, are we too cautious?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		I think that we're about properly cautious.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Given the fact that there are risks to some of these medications, I think about the right degree of caution is being exercised.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If a physician was on national radio or television and asked that question, would any physician be poorly advised to answer, oh, we're way too cautious?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, would that be not good for a career?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't think so.
		I think there would be many of my colleagues that would feel that we are being too cautious, that we should speed drugs up.
		And from that point of view, the more serious the disease, the less caution we should have, let's say.
		So for instance, if there were a drug that was developed for a currently incurable disease, so say, for instance, like ALS, which currently doesn't really have anything that has much value, if someone came up with a drug company, came up with a drug that really seemed to help it, I think it should be allowed through the pipeline more quickly because there's nothing else that's available and disease is so difficult to treat.
		But if we're talking about something that affects tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of people, like aches and pains and arthritis, then that drug needs to have a much higher margin of safety in order to be applied to so many more people when there are other safer drugs available.
		So I think we actually need to take it on an individual drug basis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She said that injection or the injections cost her $1,000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you agreed and said, well, maybe it's cheaper now.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think I've actually seen these for sale.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But can't we assume, Doctor, that if a real bullet comes along, a real magic bullet for whatever, oh my God, not only is it going to be not available here for quite a while, but those who travel elsewhere to get it are going to be paying incredible prices because, well, heck, that's the way the market works.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the law of supply and demand probably will take place.
		If there were such a magic bullet, it probably would initially be expensive.
		But it's in the nature of technology for things to become less and less expensive as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		But some of these third bridge type, what we think of as magic and miracles right now, the latest is always going to be expensive.
		So there will be this sort of rich and poor delta.
		The rich can live much longer than the poor.
		Isn't that likely?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		With nanotechnology, I think the price of goods and services will become inexpensive for everyone.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		And that's really the wonderful part of nanotechnology, is it will be possible to create our clothing and our food for a fraction of its current price so that the basic needs of everyone, not just in the United States but around the world, will be able to be met.
unidentified		Really, it'll be affordable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So ultimately affordable for everybody, but certainly in the beginning.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		In the beginning and stages, it's probably likely that these cutting-edge therapies will be more expensive and only available to a few people that can afford them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, how do you put a price on 100 years?
		If you can get another 100 years of life, why the people are going to find the money from somewhere, aren't they?
		And so you can almost assume that would be the biggest business in the world keeping people alive longer, wouldn't it?
		For a while.
		Biggest business in the world.
		More billions than the car companies and more billions than everything you can think of because what would somebody pay for a year, five years, ten years, a hundred years?
		How much would you pay for a hundred years?
		There's the answer you'd give right now, and then there's the honest answer when you get to be 99.
		Right?
unidentified		Well, I think it's time to get ready To realize just what I have found I have been on the care of what I am It's all clear to me now I have been on the
		care of what I am You get a shiver in the dark, it's waiting in the pop me with it, you're stopping your hoof, everything, double ball right,
		Thank you.
		Coming in out of the rain, they hear the jabs go down.
		Competition in other places.
		But the horns, they're blowing that sound.
		Way on down south.
		Way on down south, London town.
		to talk with Art Bell.
		Call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from East to the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From West to the Rockies, call ART at 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free, 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed, I've asked some, I think, pretty hard questions and received some very straightforward answers from Dr. Terry Grossman.
		He's longevity expert.
		Bridge 1, we're on that trunk now.
		Bridge 2 and Bridge 3 lay ahead.
		When we get there, human beings may well live to be as long as they want to live.
		Virtual immortality.
		And of course, by then, many things may be discovered.
		To imagine all of this is right in front of us, not as science fiction, but as science fact, is as incredible as any space alien adventure you could think of.
		I mean, it really is.
		In the real world, here it is right in front of us.
		The implications of it are staggering and amazing.
		And I wonder how it will change human thought about almost everything.
		The answer is it will change thought about almost everything, right?
unidentified		Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There may be one area where Dr. Grossman is just simply too optimistic from my point of view, or maybe I just can't see it.
		But he seems to lay out this rosy future where life extension will be plentiful and cheap, and life support will be easy.
		Sort of like the Star Trek thing where you order up a meal and it just appears, that kind of thing, and where nanotechnology manufactures things for us on request, and everybody has the latest three-dimensional television or whatever because they're turned out.
		It's sort of an idyllic world.
		But Chuck from El Paso, Texas fast blasts me this, Doctor.
		He says, do you really believe drug companies today would release developed cures for illnesses and cut away their profits from drugs and just treat the symptoms now anyway, and they make lots of money?
		Well, you know what?
		I could answer that for you, doctor.
		The answer is, well, no.
		I think the drug companies would switch to charging so much for the stuff you're talking about that they wouldn't need to worry about the rest of the disease and all that.
		They'd be making just untold profits.
		They might even be the profit center of the entire world.
		So I'm not as optimistic as you, doctor, that it'll all somehow be plentiful and free to the masses.
		I don't doubt where you're going with the technology, but I think, you know, the rich will get it and the poor probably won't.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, that may be the case initially, but I think ultimately the price will come down.
		And I think that drug companies, if there are some, and I know they are working on these type of products, they will make them available as soon as they can.
		I think they will charge some money for them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're a doctor now, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you know how drug companies work.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You better than most, in fact.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I'm sure they would look at that as a profit center, wouldn't you think?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely.
		I mean, the disease of aging is, you know, it's a universal disease.
		It's suffered by everyone that has ever lived.
		It's 100% fatal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that the class you really would put it in?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The disease of aging?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		In both of the books that I wrote, The Baby Women's Guide to Living Forever, I initially espoused this theory that aging can be regarded as a disease, and then followed up with it in our latest book that I wrote with Ray Kurzweil, Fantastic Voyage, Live Long Enough to Live Forever.
		And we have quite a bit of information about these, if I can mention a website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Fantastic-voyage.net.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Say that again, please.
unidentified		Yes.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Fantastic-voyage.net.
		We have actually a lot of excerpts from the book on that site, and a lot of the topics, the Bridge 1, Bridge 2, Bridge 3 topics are discussed.
		We have an extensive website with a lot of information available there, and we go into some detail about this program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Dr. Terry Grossman.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Terry.
		How are you?
		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Terry's my doctor, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, come on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		I told him I was going to get through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yeah, I did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		I saw him on Friday.
		He came in.
		We were in there for treatment.
		I go in once a week.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you go to him?
		Wait a moment, sir.
		You go to the doctor for anti-aging?
unidentified		Did I choose him?
unidentified		I got in the study.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My question was, you go to him for anti-aging therapy?
unidentified		Yes, I do in a way.
		Okay.
		I had a heart attack a while back, and I found out about some of the products and services that he has, and I took up a program that's called ATAC Program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		That he's involved in that pretty heavily.
unidentified		And it's an assessment of chelation therapy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And it's really helped me.
		I'm 60 years old.
		I'm doing things that I probably am 45 now as far as some of the capabilities that I'm doing.
		No, I could be getting a placebo, but I don't think I am.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		What he's referring to, Art, is he is a member of the federally funded TACT Trial, T-A-C-T, the trial to assess chelation therapy.
		We're one of the clinical investigating centers for participating in this double-blind placebo-controlled study of chelation therapy, and he's one of the patients.
		So since it's a double-blind study, neither he as patient nor I as physician knows what he's getting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First of all, caller, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you perceive it's working out really well for you, right?
unidentified		Outstanding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're telling me you don't think you're getting the placebo.
unidentified		No, I'm not.
unidentified		I got a call from Duke University the other day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe you better not say this.
unidentified		No, I don't know.
		No, that's fine because they asked me.
		They asked me, do you think that you're receiving the placebo?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I said, no.
unidentified		Just because of the side effects, because I'm not stupid, I got on the internet and looked up the side effects.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But to be clear here, they didn't tell you, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They didn't tell you what you were on, right?
unidentified		No, no, they will not.
unidentified		And this is one of the bones that I have with the program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no.
		But hey, listen, I can answer that one.
		It has to be, I understand from your point of view, it would be a severe bone.
		However, for the study to mean anything, they've got to have the placebo part of it, right, Doctor?
unidentified		Absolutely.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		I don't think that the people he spoke to even knew.
		I think it's very, very blinded, and all that they have is, you know, he's down as a number, and nobody knows what that number corresponds to.
		It's a randomized trial.
		I don't think the people he spoke to even knows what it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let me take a side trip very quickly and ask you about the placebo effect.
		Now, I know the way you think about certain things, so this should be an interesting area to interrogate you in.
		How strong is the placebo effect?
		How strong would it be for somebody like the man who just called to be told by a doctor like yourself that you're giving him the very latest in whatever, and by God, it's going to cure.
		You're sure it's going to cure what he has, but there's sugar pills.
		How big an effect is that?
		In other words, his own brain would begin to turn and think that it's going to be cured, and so in fact it would happen.
		How strong is that?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		It's a very powerful effect, but there are caveats about the placebo effect.
		And the most important caveat is they don't last forever.
		And that's how you usually can tell if someone, and how the patient can tell they're getting a placebo, is the effect, the patient wants to get better, the doctor says you're going to get better.
		So this placebo effect takes hold, the patient feels better, has improvement, but it doesn't last forever.
		After a period of weeks or a few months at most, the disease rears its head again, and they can't fool themselves any longer.
		So there is a placebo effect, but it's not a permanent effect, except in very rare cases where people will be cured by a placebo for a chronic illness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		But this is well known.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		There are studies, this is not just opinion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The shorter version of it, though, the short-term version of it is quite amazing and impressive, isn't it?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		The human mind can really play an important role in the healing process.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Terry Grossman.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Yes.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		This is Keith in Hamilton, Ontario.
		Hey.
		My grandfather passed away years ago at the age of 78.
		He was a fairly heavy drinker and smoked about two packs a day.
		And tests showed his heart was fine.
		So is his liver and lungs.
		What's weird is he gained Alzheimer's and died of a stroke.
		My two questions, how is it certain people like him do this while others die from this exact same manner in very early years?
		And also, could this technology you're talking about allow us to imbibe in our guilty pleasures such as these with less consequences to our health?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, we'll lecture on that one, I'm sure.
		But you know what?
		The first part of his question, Doctor, is superb.
		And that is we all hear about the evils of smoking and how many smoking-related deaths there are a year and all the rest of it.
		And yet there are a significant number of people who smoke all their lives and then don't die of anything at all smoking-related.
		And that, of course, is largely unpublished information because it's not very politically correct.
		And so how much does genetics, you know, how big a deal is genetics in this area?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I talked in the Fantastic Voyage book, we have a chapter on genomics therapy.
		And I tell an anecdote about the 104-year-old grandmother who attributes her perfect health and longevity to smoking two packs a day and having a jelly donut for breakfast.
		So, in that case, it clearly doesn't relate to her lifestyle at all, and in fact, it relates to her incredibly wonderful genetic structure.
		So, the gentleman's father, I believe, father, grandfather, who lived to be 78 despite all these adverse lifestyle choices, clearly began life with extremely good genes.
		And if he hadn't drunk so heavily and smoked so much, then I doubt that he would have died at 78, and he'd probably still be going strong for many years beyond that.
		And that also explains the counterside, why someone else who has other genes will make those lifestyle choices and then suffer a heart attack at a much younger age or develop cirrhosis of the liver, et cetera.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we hear about it.
		People who eat fruits and nuts, they drop dead sometimes.
		And the last part of his question was about the pleasures and vices of life that he spoke of.
		Might you not make it possible for people to do these things without dire consequence?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		I think that's the beauty of the Bridge III nanomedicine, nanotechnology, is that it will enable us.
		Right now, in Bridge I, we really need to follow the straight and narrow.
		We need to follow a diet.
		We need to really avoid, give up some of these pleasures in order to perhaps enjoy better health.
		But I think in the future, eating won't be necessary as a means of sustenance.
		The nanobots will take care of that.
		And eating will be done strictly for pleasure.
		So we'll be able to eat what we want and drink what we want.
		And I don't think we'll suffer the consequences.
		But that's still a few decades away.
		For now, we need to make the proper lifestyle choices.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Good hope.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Grossman.
		Turn your radio off, please.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		I had a question also about smoking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		I've been trying to sort of pouch together my own version of a longevity program now for some time, but I feel that I'm subverting my efforts with the cigarettes.
		And I've been trying for two years to quit smoking.
		So at this point, what I'd really like to do is better understand the physiology of nicotine addiction.
		And I've gotten two explanations.
		One being that what happens with a nicotine addiction is that the nicotine molecule binds to the acetylcholine receptors on the cell, inducing the cell to produce more receptors.
		And then when the nicotine is withdrawn, the cell is flooded with acetylcholine, causing the withdrawal symptoms.
		The other explanation I've gotten is that for some reason or other that I don't understand, dopamine levels go down when nicotine is withdrawn.
		And so what I was thinking was if I could determine what the actual mechanics are that are involved in the withdrawals that I have when I try to quit smoking, maybe I could find a supplement that would either maybe block acetylcholine, boost dopamine, something like that.
		And I'm wondering if the doctor has any advice for that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could this really be true?
		I saw all these chief executive officers of tobacco companies sit right in front of Congress and say, boy, there's no addictive.
		Anyway, forget that.
		Doctor, can you address her question?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the neurotransmitters involved in addiction chiefly involve the dopamine receptors.
		And some people have a certain genetic variant of dopamine, and it makes it very, very difficult for them to quit certain addictive behaviors like smoking.
		And by replenishing the precursors to dopamine, they can sometimes find it much easier to no longer engage in something as unhealthy as smoking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does that mean there's a shot for it?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		No, supplements.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of supplements?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Actually, it's a long list of vitamins and minerals.
		We have a cocktail that we recommend for people.
		And if she would go to my website, fmiclinic.com, she can just send me an email, info at fmiclinic.com, and I will get back with her.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And assuming that you were on this regimen, what are you saying?
		That it might well make it unattractive for you or not a pleasure for you to smoke?
		Or what would it do?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		No, it's not an ant abuse for cigarettes like ant abuses for alcohol.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		What it would do is it would make it so that the craving that she has for nicotine would not be as intense, would make it an easier process.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To what degree could it actually affect that?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		I think it's significant.
		I find that the majority of patients, as a conventional doctor, before I started to do longevity medicine and the type of medicine I've been practicing for the past 10 years in my clinic, my success rate in helping patients quit smoking was much lower.
		And it's increased dramatically.
		And it's well over 50% now, maybe even 75%.
		So I think that it is very, very helpful.
		And the majority of patients can quit smoking successfully.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it actually removes the desire.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Removes the desire so that the chemicals in the brain that require this repeat stimulation of the dopamine receptors, which creates the addiction, they no longer need the nicotine in order to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does it have any other side effects with respect to the person's ability to enjoy anything pleasurable?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, not at all.
		It doesn't reduce the ability to enjoy pleasure.
		It just reduces the need for this excessive dopamine stimulation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very quickly, first time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Grossman.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello.
		Thank you for taking my call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're very welcome.
unidentified		I have a question.
		I was diagnosed with migraine headaches at the beginning.
		It wasn't that, Then they diagnosed me with pseudotumor cerebri.
		What I really had was an AV malformation that led to aneurysm.
		So I went like this for about a little over a year.
		Now, it affected my optical nerve.
		With this stem cells, is there something where they would do like an injection to the optical nerve to help it regrow so I might be able to get my eyesight back?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think the answer to that is going to be a yes, and we're almost out of time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Well, ultimately, yes, but at this stage of our current technology, I'm not sure without seeing more of the exact medical history and what precise pathology exists.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But if a person wants to indulge that sort of thing now, they've got to go to Switzerland or some other country where they're doing that sort of thing.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Those really are not widely available, if at all, in the United States.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's amazing to me that they are elsewhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, your books, Baby Boomer's Guide to Living Forever, Fantastic Voyage, the Science Behind Radical Life Extension, both I would take it available on Amazon.com, hopefully.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Amazon.com, all the bookstores.
		Fantastic Voyage was just released in the last few weeks and has actually been selling very well.
		So we've been very happy with what's doing.
		But it's at all the bookstores and at amazon.com.
		And also our website, which gives people a preview, the Fantastic-Voyage.net website.
		And if I might, let me give an 800 number that people can call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very quickly, Doctor.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Okay, my clinic number, 877-548-4387.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One more time?
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		877-548-4387.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, have a good night, and thank you for being on the program.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		It's been my sincere pleasure, Art.
dr terry grossman ▲ ● ▼		Thanks so much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you are on the air.
unidentified		As it passed overhead, the stars and the full moon at the time went away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is going to be something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night, everybody.
unidentified		After midnight, the star is at last.
unidentified		I wish they could hear the cover of darkness.

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