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Nov. 20, 2004 - Art Bell

02:54:04

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Dr. Terry Grossman - To Live Forever

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	♪♪♪ From the high desert, there we go,
	and the great American Southwest, where here in Pahrump, Nevada,
	there's a white sheet up about, oh, looks to be about a thousand feet.
	That would be snow that's then evaporating before it hits the ground, but with the, uh, with the moon out there just a little bit, providing a little bit of backlighting, you can see this wonderful white Blankets are sort of floating across the valley.
	It's incredible.
	Absolutely incredible.
	At any rate, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you may be in the world's prolific time zones.
	This is that program called Coast to Coast AM.
	Weekend version.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Honored, privileged to be here with you.
	And we've got a lot to talk about.
	So let me begin with, this comes under the I knew it, I knew it category.
	In a defeat for President Bush, rebellious House Republicans on Saturday derailed legislation that was designed to overhaul the nation's intelligence agencies along lines recommended by the September 11th Commission.
	Quote, it's hard to reform.
	End quote.
	That was Speaker Dennis Hastert.
	Who sought unsuccessfully to persuade critics among the GOP rank-and-file to swing behind the measure.
	Yeah, sure, I knew it.
	The moment I heard about something that would take the power at the top of our various three-lettered agencies, CIA, NSA, all those letters, and consolidate it, I knew there was going to be gigantic trouble and that it would never work.
	And sure enough, it isn't.
	At least, not yet.
	Maybe eventually, but I knew that anything like that would be bitterly, bitterly received in the halls of power.
	You know, at these agencies.
	They all have their little fiefdoms and kingdoms within these agencies, and something like this would drive them absolutely nuts.
	This one, this story, I wrote down bastards.
	Insurgents battled American troops in the streets of Baghdad Saturday, killing a U.S.
	soldier in an ambush, gunning down four government employees.
	Signals that guerrillas remain a potent force despite the fall of their stronghold of Fallujah.
	Nine Iraqis also died in fighting west of the capital in Fallujah.
	Where U.S.
	Marines and soldiers are still battling pockets of resistance.
	Insurgents waved, get this, insurgents waved a white flag and then opened fire on U.S.
	troops, causing casualties.
	Bastards!
	That's a... Of course, what would you expect, I suppose?
	You know, but they depend on our Usual rules of engagement, and generally when you wave a white flag, that means you're giving up.
	But they used it to ambush and wound, if not kill, some of our people.
	This story bears very close listening.
	Facing nuclear challenges on two fronts, our president warned Saturday That Iran's suspected weapons program is, quote, a very serious matter, end quote.
	And he stood united with leaders of Asia and Russia in demanding North Korea's return to stalled disarmament talks and multilateral talks.
	Iran and North Korea, two nations in what Bush has branded an axis of evil, dominated the president's attention.
	And you've got to wonder, are they Next.
	In other words, if they don't give up the nuclear dream, are they next?
	We have invaded and now occupy Iraq at quite a cost.
	And I wonder if Iran would be next, or would it be North Korea?
	New world out there.
	Now, I'm not good with names, especially sports names, but Ron Artest, Jermaine O'Neal, and Steven Jackson of Indiana, and Ben Wallace of Detroit, all suspended by the NBA after a gigantic fight.
	You probably saw it on CNN.
	People in the audience just going berserk in the stands.
	They were all... It was a big, giant fistfight.
	A bad fight.
	And I'm sure you've seen the footage.
	And I just wonder if it is our nature.
	We are a very competitive people.
	You might even go so far as to say we are a warlike people.
	And we are.
	I mean, we really are relatively warlike, aren't we?
	History tells that story.
	Not so small a plane, really.
	They say a small passenger plane boat was carrying 53 people in China, went down killing All aboard.
	In a moment, I'll skip ahead to the other news of the day, much of which you may not have heard until now.
	stay right there all right i want to take a moment and i'm going to try to
	explain to some of you who probably will not understand what i'm about to say
	if i'd if i'm not careful
	of something that's going on.
	My headline would be, something is wrong with the ionosphere.
	Something is wrong with the ionosphere.
	Now, let me lay out my case for you and perhaps beg a little bit of help.
	I am an amateur ham radio operator, as you know, and I tend to hang out a lot on the 75 meter ham band.
	That is a frequency, or a range of frequencies, actually.
	And I've been a ham since 1958.
	Consecutively, I've been in ham radio since 1958, so I've seen a few sun cycles come and go.
	Not a long record, but I've seen a few.
	And I'm here to tell you tonight that I have never, in all the times I've been using the ionosphere to communicate with my friends, mainly on 75 meters, I've never seen what's going on in the last, let's say, Five weeks.
	All right?
	About the last five or six weeks.
	Normally on this range of frequencies, one could dependably communicate with people two, three, four, five hundred miles away.
	And for the last six weeks, not only has it been not dependable, but it has been virtually gone.
	That is, the ability to communicate with people over a short range on a frequency where that should be reliably true.
	Now, true, we're in the winter season when things change a little bit.
	We're toward the bottom of the sun cycle, acknowledged.
	However, if you discount the sun flares that we had, which of course disrupt communications severely at times, and certainly did disrupt them, And you look at the numbers both prior to that whole bunch of sun flares that we had and following the sun flares after they had calmed down, there is absolutely nothing, let me repeat, nothing to justify the inability to have communications where we have traditionally had communications.
	Now that means something is wrong.
	From my perspective, with the ionosphere, and I can't tell you what it is, because I don't know.
	I just know something is wrong.
	Now, I think we have trouble at any numbers of levels of the atmosphere above us.
	It's not just the ionosphere.
	As you well know, we have trouble with the ozone layer as well and I'm telling you there's something going on with the ionosphere and I can't tell you what and so here is what I'm requesting that and I've sent off some emails to people at NOAA and the Space Environment Center and so forth and so on asking for an expert to come on and try and tell me what's going on with the ionosphere.
	Now many of us have speculated about many things including by the way HAARP After all, the primary goal of HAARP is to experiment with the ionosphere, literally burning holes in the ionosphere.
	And I'm not saying that what we're experiencing right now is because of HAARP, but it certainly is one outstanding possibility.
	Anyway, again, the headline is something is wrong with the ionosphere.
	Something is going on.
	It may well be Something totally explicable that some scientist or person could come on here and explain, but until they do, I'm telling you, something's wrong.
	I have never experienced anything like this in all of my hamdom.
	So let me just observe that for you and move forward, but if there's anybody out there who would like to come on as a guest, who has credentials, With respect to ionospheric and radio propagation studies, I'd love to have you come on board.
	For the average person out there, again, my headline is, something is wrong up there.
	So we'll leave it at that, and if you are such an expert, or you feel you can explain what's really going on, That would clobber a band like this, actually many bands, for weeks on end, then feel free to contact me, artbell at minespring.com or artbell at aol.com.
	In other news, you're going to love this, listen carefully, Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger on Monday appointed a new Department of Motor Vehicles director, and this new director Apparently has advocated, you're gonna love it, taxing motorists, that would be you and me, for every mile they drive by placing tracking devices in their cars.
	The idea would mean a significant overhaul of how California collects taxes to maintain its often crumbling roads.
	Under the plan, the state gas tax, now about 18 cents a gallon by the way, Would be replaced with a tax on every single mile your car or your truck travels.
	The notion not yet endorsed by the governor, but it is gaining acceptance among transportation and budget experts.
	As Californians drive increasingly more fuel-efficient cars, state officials are alarmed that the gas tax will not raise enough money to keep up with the holes in the road.
	Charging people for the miles they drive also worries some owners of hybrid cars.
	Because why?
	It could wipe out any gas tax savings they might enjoy now.
	There are other concerns as well.
	For example, how about your privacy?
	Hmm?
	This thing would look at every mile you drive.
	Privacy advocates worry about the government tracking the whereabouts of every car in California.
	In one scenario, currently being tested in Oregon, incidentally, tracking devices send a signal to a GPS satellite following the car and that information would be used to calculate the tax bill.
	Other devices send a signal directly from the car to the pump.
	Which calculates the tax based on the odometer reading.
	Oh, brother.
	Annalee Newitz, a policy analyst for the Electronic Frontier Foundation in San Francisco, which monitors privacy issues, said, if the device can communicate with a satellite and then communicate back with another device on the ground, why, it could be used for something else.
	That would be my concern.
	How are limits placed on how this device might be used?
	Yet, some transportation experts say the technology has wider implications.
	Officials are intrigued by the idea because California could begin taxing people for using specific roads at specific times to keep people off freeways at peak hours, for example.
	Per mile fees for city streets could be pegged at a lower rate than the highway.
	That could prompt people to use alternative routes.
	So, the obvious question is, how you feel about the possibility of a little black box being included with your car?
	One that would, by law, I might add, one that would, and think what else they could learn.
	They could probably learn how fast you're going.
	Well, that would be calculated against the mileage, right?
	And all of this reported by satellite to the tax people.
	Oh, man.
	Big Brother really is on the way, isn't he?
	Here's a worrisome little story, and then we'll do open lines.
	Yeah, we're going to do open lines.
	Anything your little heart would like to talk about, we are prepared to discuss this evening.
	The headline is, Bird Flu.
	Bird flu seen as the next pandemic.
	Epidemiologist Michael Osterholm said Monday in Minneapolis that animal diseases emerging in foreign countries are on a course to threaten U.S.
	families, agriculture, and the economies in ways we've never seen.
	Osterholm, who is Associate Director for the National Center for Food Protection and Defense for Homeland Security, told a National Conference of Agricultural Bankers that he believes the bird flu epidemic in Southeast Asia is about to become a lethal pandemic.
	His words.
	Last week, the World Health Organization sounded a similar alert.
	Urging preparations for such a pandemic as a matter of national security and on Monday, researchers at the National Institutes of Health announced initiatives to step up research to stave off an outbreak and develop a response should it hit.
	Osterholm projected that a pandemic, listen carefully now, would kill Could kill about 30,000 Minnesotans, 1.7 million Americans, and 177 million people worldwide in its first year.
	million Americans and a hundred and seventy seven million people worldwide
	in its first year. The world is unprepared with inadequate amounts of
	vaccine or even face masks. If the bird flu virus mutates into one that spreads
	easily among hogs and people that would slam travel to a halt and it would
	cripple the economy.
	Bye.
	This is going to be, this is a quote, this is going to be the most catastrophic thing in my lifetime.
	End quote.
	That was Osterholm.
	Remember, he's an epidemiologist.
	When this situation unfolds, he goes on, we will shut down global markets overnight There will not be movement of goods, there will not be, or there will, yeah, there will not be movement of goods, there will not be movement of people, and this is going to last for a year, maybe two.
	That came from the Star Tribune, the Minneapolis Star Tribune, if you want to look it up.
	Now, That's really serious stuff.
	30,000 people dead in Minnesota possible, 1.7 million in America, 177 million worldwide.
	That's a very, very, very serious story and it of course comes on the heels of a story we're all dealing with right now and that is no flu vaccine.
	I think we've got I think we've got about 300 flu vaccine shots for our little town of Pahrump.
	I guess that's our allotment, as it were.
	And they are going to the young, the old, the infirm, as you would imagine in a shortage situation would happen.
	But my God, what if story A coincided with story B?
	I refer here to the bird flu.
	What a time that would be.
	So, things to worry about in the new century.
	That certainly would go up near the top of the list, along with, I suppose, nuclear weapons being developed by Iran and North Korea getting into the wrong hands.
	So we've got a lot to worry about in this century.
	Okay, first names only.
	I had to bleep that out, sir.
	Sorry about that.
	Please don't give me your last name.
	Yeah, I just wanted to make mention that in the movie Back to the Future 2, with the infamous history book on sports, they make mention that the Boston Red Sox will win the World Series in a four-game sweep of the St.
	Louis Cardinals.
	No, did they really?
	Absolutely.
	I just wanted to mention that to you because I know how you like The time travel and such, and I'd like to just listen to your comments.
	All right.
	All right.
	Well, then here they come.
	Yes.
	Isn't that interesting?
	There have been a number of stories.
	That one, you know, and also the one about one of my favorites.
	It could be an urban myth.
	Who knows?
	But it was run as a real wire service story.
	Some fellow did a bunch of trading on Wall Street.
	So much successful trading.
	that they closed in on him and when they did he said well he said he was a time traveler I'm serious now this could be an investor who perhaps had some inside knowledge or maybe he had time related inside knowledge if you follow me I don't know but the The people who look into that sort of thing laughed really hard, and then I guess called one of the big national news services.
	There are a number of things.
	I got an email from somebody who got a color photograph of his grandfather back from a time when they didn't have color photography.
	I just got that email earlier today.
	We're gonna pause, and when we come back, the lines are open for whatever's on your mind.
	From the high desert, this is Coast to Coast AM.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	【Music】【Music】
	That thing does rock, doesn't it?
	Alright, listen.
	The phone numbers are a little bit different on the weekend.
	So, please make note.
	To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east to the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	From west to the Rockies, call Art at 800-618-8255.
	is area code 775-727-1222. To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free
	at 800-825-5033. From west of the Rockies, call Art at 800-618-8255.
	International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country Sprint Access
	number, pressing Option 5, and dialing toll free 800-893-0903.
	From coast to coast, and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	And you, open unscreened calls coming right up.
	So, turn the radio up a notch and get set, because we're about to rock.
	Assange!
	Well, okay, here comes the good part.
	All of you.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Top of the morning.
	Hi, this is Joe from Michigan.
	Hello, Joe.
	I just wanted to tell you about that thing in California about the black box and the card thing.
	Yes.
	I wanted to say, you know, I mean, they're making little by little at the people of America and taking little by little their freedom away, you know, and I wanted to say, if that's not communism, what is, you know?
	Well, communism is, in the end, making everybody absolutely equal, at least that's the idealistic Preaching of communism.
	Realistically, it never works out that way.
	But yes, I can see how you would perhaps view it in that way.
	Right.
	I got one other thing.
	On November 7th here in Michigan, you talk about the solar flares a lot and stuff.
	On November 7th, we had the most bright northern lights I've ever seen in my life here in Michigan.
	Oh, it was incredible.
	It was not just Michigan, as I'm sure you're aware.
	Okay, yeah.
	It was all across the northern latitudes.
	In fact, they were seen at one point as far south as Arizona.
	So yes, we had some magnificent solar disturbances, but I want to make it clear again that what I perceive as wrong with the ionosphere right now has no relationship to that period of disturbance at all.
	In fact, looking at the current numbers, And I do realize there are some very fast stuff coming from the sun, particles.
	But still, none of this justifies what we have been experiencing for the last six weeks.
	Five or six weeks.
	I'm telling you, I have never seen anything like it.
	And those who operate on those frequencies understand exactly what I'm talking about.
	What we need to do is reach out and get an expert in that area, and I'm sure there's an explanation, but until then, my personal little headline is, there is something wrong with the ionosphere.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, this is Jason from Las Vegas calling.
	How are you?
	I'm fine, Jason.
	Awesome.
	Listen, I wanted to ask about the Spiracom device that you had on Ghost2Ghost on Halloween.
	You heard anybody putting one together since then or got any results from that?
	Yes, there are several people who wrote to me who said, oh my god, I've been working on something very similar now for some time and like to fell out of my chair when I heard the Spiracom broadcast.
	Wow, did they have the same results?
	Yes, there are people getting results and I'm working on getting them on the air.
	That would be great.
	I'd love to hear some more about that.
	I mean, You know, I mean, just recently having family pass away and whatnot, you know, I mean, it's just kind of a pipe dream, really.
	But, you know, just something I'd like to hear about.
	All right, sir.
	I appreciate the call.
	And if you didn't hear it, what to a lot of people amounted to an hour and 20 minutes of just unbearable noise and weirdness.
	Was, in a lot of ways, I consider it to be one of the most important stories I ever put on the air.
	I mean, look, we're not here to do what everybody else does on talk shows.
	And so sometimes that results in something really weird.
	Spiricom was one of those times.
	This man, George Meeks, for years, for his whole life, adult life, worked on technical ways and they were described in great detail on the website to talk to the other side and in my mind he proved he was doing it it was one of the most incredibly if you have the patience and I begged people to have the patience to sit through it as I played that I received hundreds, no thousands of emails about Spiracom and the people who really did strain and listen
	And understood what they were hearing just were totally blown away.
	I think it's the real McCoy.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello?
	Yeah, hi.
	Hi.
	Is this Art?
	That would be me.
	Yeah, okay.
	I was listening to you about the, you know, the pandemic.
	I think this is scare tactics.
	Do you?
	Yeah.
	And from what I understood, that they've got under control.
	Now, do you think they'd really want to wipe out their whole country when all of our businesses are moving over there?
	Well, I don't think that anybody's suggesting this would be induced by man.
	They're beginning to see the bird flu jumping species.
	You know, they're starting to see that.
	And as they see that, they've got to imagine the possibility There's quite a bit of research on that shows the 1918 flu that killed so many millions was some sort of bird flu.
	Something that had jumped.
	So I don't think they're suggesting somebody's going to cook it up in a lab, though God knows it could probably happen.
	I think they're suggesting nature will do this one for us.
	Well, nature has a cure for just about everything.
	Yes, including overpopulation.
	Yeah, and another thing that you were saying about your radio problems.
	It's been happening, you said about six weeks, you're right, because it's been happening on your stations, on the other people's stations, and last week we couldn't even pick you up.
	Yes.
	Here's what a lot of my listeners would have noticed, and I should have said this earlier because it would bring it down to the level that a lot of people could understand, even though It does not affect the AM broadcast band to the degree that it does with what I call 75 meters.
	Think of the broadcast band from 540, right, to 1700 or 1710, whatever it is these days, where I operate is up around 3.8 megahertz.
	right, to 1700 or 1710, whatever it is these days, where I operate is up around
	3.8 megahertz, so it's not that far away, and there have been days where the
	broadcast band is affected, so radio stations you would normally hear at 50
	and 60 miles away are just flat gone.
	Well, the other night on 540 and on 970 and on 1700, I couldn't pick y'all up anywhere.
	Yeah.
	Even on 1200.
	Right.
	And, uh, anyway, something other than that, uh, you know, y'all had McElvenny on your program last week.
	I guess George... George Norty's program.
	Yes.
	And the stock market's already dropping.
	Yeah, it started Friday.
	I mean, everything was in the red.
	You don't think that?
	Except a few things.
	You don't think that?
	That was Don's prediction, right?
	Yeah.
	Not false.
	Yeah.
	And I think it's going to happen, but the thing is, people just got to keep their heads, you know, and get out as quick as they can so they don't lose everything.
	But not for people to panic.
	Wish that could happen.
	Well, yeah, I don't know.
	The President, when the market falls precipitously, Our president always gets on the air and says, the economy is sound.
	And he's always been right, so far.
	However, there are a number of areas in which our economy now is basically teetering.
	The dollar isn't doing so well.
	And economies, and the best economies, and the biggest economies in the world, are no longer here in the US.
	So, you know, things are changing and it all bears watching.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Yeah, Art, I'm impressed at how calm some of your call-ins seem to be.
	I'm very nervous talking to you.
	Oh, well, look, the way to do it is take a deep breath and then say exactly what you wanted to say.
	I'll take a shot at it.
	You know, you mentioned that satellite tracking of cars is what Schwarzenegger wants to do, and that's kind of alarming to me, being a lover of my own privacy.
	Let me carefully correct you a little bit.
	The governor has not yet signed on to it, the story said.
	What it said was that people in his administration and transportation are real hot on the idea.
	Well, you know, I just wanted to add a potential to that.
	If I may.
	You may.
	I worked for a guy a few years ago who had a company that was devoted to, well, one of the divisions was devoted to landmine detection.
	And they found out a way of fluorescing, you know, target areas in front of like, say, a moving vehicle at convoy speed, which was six kilometers an hour, something like that.
	And they had a two to 300 meter, you know, fluorescent range.
	And it would, it would pick up landmines based on All six nitrate-based propellants, you know, which to quite a degree is a lot like gunpowder.
	Right.
	And so he was saying that their success rating was 110%, meaning that they could find out where landmines had been buried and it would leave residual traces.
	Yes.
	And so I was talking to him and he was saying that he could find ammunition in a car.
	You know, somebody was transporting their rifle to the range.
	I would imagine, yes.
	And that these units could be mounted on bridges, and all they needed was the telemetry to flag a vehicle.
	We are entering a new age.
	We might as well face up to it, but somebody's got to stand and fight with regard to our Fourth Amendment rights and save what's left of them, sir.
	Yes, this 1984 thing is, you know, a few years late, but boy it certainly seems to be coming up, you know, coming up on us.
	Do you live in California?
	Yes.
	Okay, good.
	If it became the law in California that a little black box that would report your movements to a satellite by law had to go into your car, how would you react?
	I'm just curious.
	Well, I'd be stunned.
	I'd be stunned, outraged.
	I'd be trying to find others who felt like me that we could politically, peacefully form some kind of a legal resistance to this.
	If push came to shove, though, and they said, look, you either take this or you don't get a license, you don't drive.
	Well, I think I would make plans to leave the state.
	I suppose I'm a little bit paranoid or overreactive, but I don't like the feeling that the government is part of my household.
	I like to feel that the government, it would be an entity that would protect me, the sovereignty of my country, you know, the solvency of my money, and my jobs, air, that kind of stuff.
	Of course, it's not doing any of those things.
	It seems to be more interested in me and what I might think.
	I wonder how many other Californians would join in, in that level of protest, should it occur?
	I don't know, but you know, the people that I would have thought, you know, like the Berkeleyites, you know, the people from the 60s who didn't want the government in your face?
	Not really.
	you know that generation which i'm part of now seems to be the people who want to be in your house
	with you you know it's a good color strange minimum mom and workers say they've
	not really happens every generation yeah they're all the other
	and now they're conservative and paranoid and and and think that they
	know best what with what you should uh...
	uh... the legislation pick up against her Yes.
	The way they live their life is obviously the way you should be living your life.
	Well, see, it wasn't that hard.
	You got it done just fine, sir.
	Thank you very much for the call.
	You bet.
	Right.
	Take care.
	So there's an outraged Californian.
	And again, it has not yet happened.
	However, many on the governor's staff are apparently very hot on the idea.
	And it's a little black box that would fit inside your car.
	Report to a satellite on your movements.
	How many miles you drive, what roads you drive on, perhaps.
	Just everything about you.
	And then even your speed, I suppose, calculated on the fuel usage.
	Or speed could just be another little piece of data that's reported.
	Big brother indeed.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Uh, you have your radio on.
	Please extinguish your radio as a first step toward getting on the air.
	Uh, no, he's not going to do it.
	Well, then we're out of here.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Hello?
	Hello?
	Going once, going twice.
	Uh, yeah, I'm calling.
	Uh, you're calling... Sorry, we missed you.
	West of the Rockies.
	Let's try it here.
	Hello?
	Hello?
	Uh, I'd like to discuss a theory about alien UFO sightings with Art.
	This is Art.
	Oh, hey, Art.
	Yes, sir.
	Yes, so, um, I have this theory that, um, the sightings, they're originating, uh, south of the border, actually.
	Oh, you mean, uh, the UFOs?
	Yes, it all started, it, it actually, it, it coincides with, uh, the Mexican, uh, New Years.
	It does?
	Yeah, because, uh, when it all started, the aliens are in cahoots The Mexicans, they trance the UFOs.
	See, I let him self-destruct, which he did quite readily.
	He was apparently trying to pull some sort of prank, but even he couldn't carry it out.
	He just sort of self-destructed in the middle of his silliness.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	My name is Diane.
	Hi, Diane.
	Hi, and I just, I have one thing I wanted to just throw out at you, but first, I just wanted to go ahead and say also that here in Iowa, up until just a couple of days ago, for at least a week, about a half a dozen AM stations that I listened to at night were gone.
	Dead silence.
	Yes.
	And I didn't know what was going on.
	Yes, well, what's going on is something very odd, hon.
	We had Aurora Borealis, due to some sun flares, But this condition was present before the sun flares and continues now well after the effect of the sun flares.
	And that's what's got me very concerned.
	Otherwise, the aurora is very pretty when it's there, isn't it?
	Yeah.
	Did you get to see some of it?
	No, just some friend of mine said they saw some other.
	Well, sometimes it can get absolutely beautiful.
	Reds, greens, mixing, moving like jelly across the sky.
	Oh, I'd love to see that.
	Oh yeah.
	It's beautiful.
	I love nature and everything.
	But I have this question.
	I don't have very many details.
	This happened on a radio station I heard about the middle of the week.
	It's weird, but he said he couldn't remember the senator's name, but he said a senator actually was trying to introduce a bill, maybe you've heard about it, a bill to make it a federal offense that you couldn't switch your station when a commercial came on your TV.
	Um, do you know, I read something about that now.
	And Senator McCain, I guess he stood up and was, you know, against it, said something about, But anyway, this newscaster said that TiVo thinks it would be a good idea.
	Now, I don't have TiVo, but they said that something about they'd like to either put their commercials on or else they do have their own commercials and they don't want you to not watch them.
	Yeah, I'm not... Listen, here's the deal.
	Either it's an urban legend Or it's real legislation that may be proposed.
	But here's what I get out of it.
	The commercial people who sponsor television shows are beginning to get very upset at the TiVos of the world.
	These are devices that record upon hard drive television programs, and then when you play them back, you're able to readily skip boom, boom, boom, boom right across the commercials.
	And watch, oh, let's say a one-hour program, and probably about two-thirds the time it would take you to watch if you sat there and sat through each commercial.
	Now, it's not all that different than VCRs.
	I mean, you could record a commercial and then go buy them.
	TiVo simply makes it a little easier.
	So the rumor is, and at this stage I can't qualify it beyond a rumor, That the manufacturers want some sort of bill introduced, making it illegal or impossible, perhaps impossible, for you to skip through the commercials.
	So, there you go, that little black box in your car.
	First-time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Good evening, Mr. Bell.
	How are you, sir?
	Quite well, thank you.
	This is Jeff from Kent, Texas, sir.
	I'm a long-time listener and a first-time caller.
	I was wondering, is there any possible way I could get any Information on Ms.
	Streber's condition, sir.
	I haven't heard anything in a while, sir.
	Well, the last I heard, she was doing quite well and had been moved out of the intensive care ward into a regular ward, where she's recovering and with all her faculties intact.
	That's fantastic, sir.
	And we'll continue the prayers.
	And thank you for your time, Mr. Bell.
	Thank you very much for calling.
	He refers to Ann Streber.
	who had a bleeding in the brain a very serious condition indeed and they went in through a vein and put a little device at the end of the area that was bleeding and apparently got it to stop and then the blood that was there apparently has been pretty well absorbed there's no apparent paralysis very little effect on memory and that sort of thing so I guess we can say your prayers worked.
	I mean, you can always imagine that it was not that, that it was just the random hand of God, but I choose to believe that indeed your prayers work, and I will continue to pray as I hope you do for Ann Streber.
	In the middle of the night, in the darkness, this is Coast to Coast AM.
	I'm Art Bell.
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	By the way, would you like to live forever?
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	Letters I've written, never meaning to send.
	Beauty I'd always missed, with these eyes before.
	me Baby, when you need a smile
	Baby when you need a smile to help a shadow to know where you're going, come to me.
	To help us shatter, do no wait You'll come to me
	Baby you'll see.
	Baby, you'll see The love's too pretty, baby
	Who loves you pretty baby, who's gonna help you through the night. Who loves you pretty my boy, who's always there to
	Who's gonna hold you through the night?
	The love's too pretty, my boy Who's always there to make me
	make it. Who loves you.
	The love's true Who's gonna love you, love you
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	Who's gonna love you?
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	Oh, who loves you, baby?
	Well, of course we love you, and we want you to live forever.
	And if you listen carefully...
	Over the coming few hours, you may learn how to do exactly that, or you may learn the state of the science that will eventually get you there, if you so desire.
	That's a question all by itself, isn't it?
	If you so desire.
	Anyway, coming right up, Dr. Terry Grossman.
	Are you?
	Thanks for watching.
	Dr. Terry Grossman is indeed a medical doctor.
	He is also the founder and the medical director of Frontier Medical Institute in Denver, Colorado.
	His longevity medical practice attracts patients, I can imagine it would, including many VIPs from around the country, in fact around the world.
	He graduated from Brandeis University in 68 and the University of Florida School of Medicine in 79.
	Dr. Grossman undertook the study of nutritional and anti-aging medicine back in 1994 and in 95 opened Frontier Medical Institute in Denver.
	So he must have thought it worked.
	That quickly grew into one of the largest complementary medical centers in the country.
	He is assistant professor of family practice at the University of Colorado School of Medicine.
	He is a member and board certified A physician by the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine as well as the American Holistic Medical Association, Dr. Grossman is also a widely sought-after lecturer on longevity medicine throughout the U.S.
	and has presented keynote addresses at anti-aging seminars all the way around the world.
	In addition, he is the author of the Baby Boomer's Guide to Living Forever and Fantastic Voyage, the Science Behind Radical Life Extension.
	Here is Dr. Terry Grossman.
	Doctor, welcome to the program.
	Thank you so much, Art.
	Fantastic Voyage, the Science Behind Radical Life Extension seems like a good title.
	Baby Boomer's Guide to Living Forever sounds very optimistic.
	Yes, it was my contention with the first book The Baby Boomers Guide to Living Forever, that the prospects for radical life extension, and even potentially for effectively living forever, really is not that far off.
	It may be a technology that's available to us within the next few decades, and for people who are younger than the Baby Boomers, barring legislative fiat or global catastrophe, There's a good opportunity that they will be able to take full advantage of these therapies.
	Well, those two are big bars.
	Yes, they are.
	We'll talk about them on the show.
	We don't address that in the book, but the baby boomers are kind of a crux generation.
	And for them, if these technologies come to full fruition in, say, 25 years, many of them may take advantage of them.
	But if they don't bear fruit until 35 or 40 years, then it becomes more problematic.
	But we feel that the technology to allow people to live those additional decades is available today for people even at the oldest baby boomers and even beyond the baby boomer generation.
	So therefore, the new book that I wrote, Fantastic Voyage, we actually subtitled Live Long Enough to Live Forever.
	Alright, gee, it's almost hard to know where to begin.
	This is so interesting.
	Live long enough to live forever.
	So, obviously, you think we're that close.
	How old are you, Doctor?
	I am 57 right now.
	57.
	I'm 59.
	I'd say we're both really on the cusp there.
	Yes, absolutely.
	The sword of Damocles is hanging over us more than the younger baby boomers, who right now have just turned 40.
	and for the Generation X and younger people, I really think they will be able to take full advantage
	of these technologies, but for people our age, it's particularly urgent that we do the things
	that we discuss in the book in order to try to take full advantage of these therapies.
	Alright, let's talk then about decades.
	Assuming it is now possible to extend life by decades, that's quite a claim right there.
	Let's talk about that.
	What would have to be done to take somebody, let's say our age roughly, and extend their life decades, long enough to perhaps get to the magic bullet point?
	Well, in our book we discuss what we refer to as the three bridges.
	And bridge one consists of today's therapies, things people can either do or take advantage of from the medical community, available now, that will enable people to live long enough so that they can then take full advantage of bridge two.
	And bridge two is really the full expression of the biotechnology revolution.
	Which is only now just beginning.
	What would Bridge 2 be?
	I mean, is it these telomeres, or whatever they are, and being able to control them?
	Even though you might not know exactly what it is, what is your best guess about what Bridge 2 actually will be?
	Well, in Bridge 2, I consider there to be actually five key elements of Bridge 2 therapies.
	The telomeres actually are part of one of these therapies, but I would consider, for instance, stem cell therapies that we hear so much about in the news, both the embryonic stem cells and adult stem cells, which we could talk about as one of the true big five of the bridge two therapies.
	May I please ask, from a purely medical and scientific point of view, How important are embryonic stem cells versus adult stem cells to this research that could potentially have us on our way to living forever?
	I'm talking now about the embryonic ones.
	How important are they?
	Well, you raise a very good point because the embryonic stem cells are the type of stem cells that are creating so much debate because As you know, stem cells are cells that are very plastic.
	They can change into all types of different cells in the body, and they can be, with the right growth factors applied to them, turned into different types of cells, which is why they have so much therapeutic potential.
	Up until recently, we thought that stem cells needed to be harvested from organisms that were very, very young, such as in the embryonic stage or fetal stage.
	People were taking umbilical cord blood to harvest stem cells, but actually we found that stem cells persist even into adulthood, and a very simple source of stem cells is to just pluck a hair and to take some of the follicle cells, and in that area are found adult stem cells, and another very rich source of adult stem cells are the fat tissue.
	So, there are stem cells in adulthood, and the question, the big debate among scientists now is, are stem cells as valuable?
	Can they be coaxed to do the same things that the embryonic stem cells are?
	And there is some evidence that's coming out that suggests that this may be true.
	And even other evidence that suggests that stem cells may have advantages over the embryonic stem cells.
	Really?
	Yes.
	Not only because the adult stem cells are not subject to the same Moral and ethical quagmire that the embryonic stem cells are, but the adult stem cells, the embryonic stem cells are actually very, almost, they're almost too plastic.
	They're difficult to control.
	They're like wild.
	They're hard to control in the laboratory.
	And maybe the adult stem cells will prove easier for the scientists to work with.
	So there may actually be advantages, I think, in the near future.
	We'll reach the point where we're able to coax the adult stem cells To do what we want them to do, to create new organs and tissues that are desirable for maintaining health, for improving health, and then we don't need to enter into the political and moral ethical dilemma.
	But isn't what a stem cell does, in essence, ordered by our genetic makeup to do what it does when it does it?
	So in other words, an older stem cell already has been ordered and It's doing what it's going to be doing for you.
	No, in other words, a stem cell that resides, you may be right.
	A stem cell that resides in the hair, for instance, may have already been differentiated, and it has been told you are to become a hair cell one day.
	Right, and it's well already a hair cell, if not already being lost to a bald head, who knows, by the time it's very adult.
	So, I mean, I'm trying to get down to the, forget the moral aspect of it for a second, hard as that may be.
	If you had your choice and you were deep into the research, which for all I know you may be, would you choose to work with embryonic stem cells or adult stem cells, Doctor?
	Well, at this stage of our progress, I think that the embryonic stem cells would be easier to work with because they are more plastic and they can be coped more easily.
	But there is some thought that we will be able to De-differentiate a hair follicle stem cell.
	Kind of like erasing it, you mean?
	Yes, basically to tell it to go back to be less differentiated because it's not that far away from what it started as.
	Because within all the cells and within the stem cells are the blueprints to make any cell in the body.
	But that kind of level of research, it seems to me, would be quite a ways down the line from the embryonic research.
	I'm not sure that it's that far away.
	Things are progressing very, very quickly, and due to the fact that there has been a relative difficulty in getting funds to do embryonic stem cell research, some laboratories have begun to look more seriously at adult stem cells, and they may have considerable value.
	Maybe we should explain to the audience when you say differentiate.
	In other words, they are differentiated as a hair.
	chloropotent or totopotent stem cells, which are the earlier embryonic-like stem cells,
	then we will be able to utilize them for the purposes we want.
	Maybe we should explain to the audience when you say differentiate.
	In other words, they are differentiated as a hair.
	In other words, you're going to become a hair follicle or you're going to become a liver
	or you're going to become a finger.
	In other words, each cell in the body contains the complete genetic code for the entire body.
	and the only reason that it if in your liver became that liver cell
	was because certain factors
	certain chemicals in its environment told it
	to express these things to turn certain people on turn certain genes off
	and therefore ultimately turned into a liver cell the fame
	nuclear thing blueprint within the d n a pulled another filled become a heart muscle cell
	and what the femto can do if they have the ability to become any type of still
	a liver fill can only become a liver cell at that point and i hear fill can only become a hair
	a femto become any type of so given the right program given the right
	Okay, does this mean that you anticipate someday somebody will draw back a syringe with something in it that when injected will begin to grow a, oh let's say a new liver for somebody or a new heart or whatever?
	This is the current promise of embryonic stem cells today and there are actually clinics outside of the united state
	i know very little about the but i've heard about them people might have
	actually traveled out by the united states
	receive these type of injections that describe all and what happened is
	they receive injections of stem cells and react them so that are available uh... elsewhere than
	the united states yes these bill will travel anywhere in the body
	that they are needed they may have enough
	knowledge to know that ok there's a problem in the final popcorn
	injury by look what it hurts
	where the problem in the liver or their uh... can't turn the long and they will travel to wherever
	these problems are and immediately take up residence there and become the
	needed fell now does this mean that uh... for example let's take a heart
	Does this mean a damaged heart would begin to repair itself?
	Does it mean a new heart would begin growing in the patient?
	Does it mean a heart could be grown in a petri dish or something like that?
	How might it work?
	Well, in a petri dish, I think this is happening now.
	Scientists are able to take stem cells and cause them to differentiate or become heart muscle cells.
	This type of therapy is going on.
	Whether or not you can just take an injection of syringe full of embryonic stem cells and inject it into a patient's bloodstream and expect them to go to a damaged heart or go to a damaged spinal cord, I don't think that we really have enough evidence to show that that's true.
	But there are clinics outside of the United States that do this.
	Well, obviously then, Doctor, you're hearing stuff.
	Probably on the internet.
	What are you hearing?
	What have they done?
	How successful are they being?
	To hear what they say, I've actually been to lectures that have been presented by people that have done this therapy, and to hear them talk, they have a great deal of success.
	But in the few patients that I have seen, that I did not refer to these clinics, but I know they went on their own, They did not have a great deal of success, so I don't know to what degree these clinics are able to do this, but I think in the near future they may have this technology, but I don't think it really exists today.
	Alright, let me back up and ask you which it is.
	If you were to get an injection today and you had a, I don't know, a troubled heart, a damaged heart, because you'd had a heart attack as an example, and you received a shot for this, what What would it do?
	What would the expectation be with today's level of technology that would go in and begin to repair the heart damage?
	What are the wildest rumors?
	Well, the wildest rumors would be exactly that.
	But they would also be exactly that, which is to say rumors.
	And I don't know that we could anticipate that they would actually do that.
	They might be sold as being able to do that.
	But realistically, I don't know that we could depend on that happening.
	I actually think that, I had mentioned earlier, these embryonic stem cells are a little bit on the wild side, and that is to say that they can multiply and become, perhaps, something that we don't want them to become.
	So, at this stage, I don't think that that's a safe therapy that people should engage in.
	But you've actually had patients... On their own, they have gone to do this.
	Not at my recommendation.
	Not at your recommendation.
	Did you tell your patients about the existence of such clinics and then just offer them their own thought process?
	Or maybe I shouldn't even ask you this.
	Yeah, no, I think that they actually found it on their own.
	Did they?
	Yeah, I think they found it on their own and just asked me what I thought and, you know, it's kind of let the buyer beware type of flop because I really don't know and we don't have any studies to demonstrate That these clinics are, or that these therapies are at the stage that providing the type of help we need.
	Doctor, how many years do you think we might be from a point where you could get a shot that would repair your heart or your liver?
	How many years from that?
	Well, things are accelerating so much it's hard to predict that, but I don't think it's unrealistic that we could be looking at something like that in the next 10 or 15 years.
	Wow.
	Okay, then maybe you can imagine this for me.
	If this Level 2 technology is in place and working, what will it mean to the average human being able to afford it?
	What would it mean?
	Well, let's take the case of an individual that's had a heart attack, a serious heart attack, and that heart attack has destroyed a significant part of the heart muscle.
	Heart muscle is unable to pump adequately to supply the blood flow through the body.
	At the current stage of our medical expertise, that patient would either need a heart transplant or a prosthetic heart.
	If we had the ability to take some stem cells and grow a new heart, that patient could then receive a cloned heart, a heart that was created of their own stem cells that wouldn't be rejected.
	and or they could get a transplant of muscle, heart muscle, to replace the damaged muscle
	and I think that the damaged muscle transplant would be realistic within
	the 10 to 15 year time span and the entire heart maybe 15 to 20 years off. So that would be realistic for
	this type of therapy that's why they're
	so exciting. That is exciting, that really is and I take it similar treatments would be
	developed very quickly for our other organs, our lungs, our liver and so forth and so on.
	Well, those therapies have begun today.
	I have a friend in Japan, an ophthalmologist, and he is using stem cells to grow corneas.
	And other doctors are growing urinary bladders.
	These are relatively simple organs.
	The bladder is a fairly simple organ, and the cornea, compared to other organs, is a simple organ.
	But they're already creating these out of stem cells today.
	Got it.
	All right.
	Hold it right there, doctor.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	Dr. Terry Grossman is my guest.
	So, some organs, they can already grow.
	They just start the right stem cells growing in it and some version of a petri dish or deep black box and pretty soon
	You've got an organ To access the audio archives of coast to coast am log on to
	coast to coast am.com Music playing...
	you 2525
	If man is still alive If woman can survive
	They may fly In the year 3535
	Ain't gonna need to tell the truth, tell no lies Everything you think, do and say
	Is in the bill you took today In the year 4545
	Ain't gonna need your teeth, won't need you Gonna eat your teeth, won't meet your eyes.
	You won't find a thing to chew.
	Nobody's gonna look at you.
	Fifty-three, fifty-five, fifty-five.
	Your arms hanging low past your eyes.
	Your leg's got nothing to do Some machine doing that for you In the year 65, 65 Ain't gonna meet no husband, won't meet no wife You'll pick your son, pick your daughter too From the bottom of a long, dry field, whoa To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
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	This song actually may have been very, very pessimistic.
	It may not take nearly that long.
	Dr. Terry Grossman is my guest and much of what they're singing about
	It's already happening Are you stride
	So in other words these stem cells are things that can be differentiated
	That is to say, they are told what they're going to be.
	Now normally, our genetic code orders them to be what they are.
	What Dr. Grossman is talking about is a way to take either The very early stem cells, the very, very early ones, which are essentially blank, which you would think would make them easier to work with, and that's why they're the great argument over embryonic stem cells, or adult stem cells, and then like you would erase a blackboard, I guess, you erase it and then tell it what you want it to be.
	Is that simplified but roughly accurate?
	Yes, Art, that's quite accurate.
	Okay, I am sort of curious.
	You mentioned a couple of organs, Corny, I think you said, and some others that could actually be grown right now.
	How do they do that, Doctor?
	Are they growing it in some sort of black box or what?
	They're doing it basically in glass, in petri dishes, and in sterile environments.
	They're putting in the appropriate chemicals that will create the environment to cause the stem cells to grow into the desired organ, so they can grow corneas to replace damaged corneas, or also to create bladders.
	The bladders haven't been done clinically.
	I don't think either of these have been done in humans yet, but they're growing these organs now, and I think they'll be able to grow more complicated tissues and more complex organs in the very near future.
	They have grown corneas, though?
	I don't know if they've grown fully functional corneas, but they've certainly grown partial corneas and, you know, corneal grafts, things like that.
	So we're not very far from, for example, a full cornea being grown and then replaced.
	Yes, exactly.
	They've also grown, they've taken stem cells and coaxed them to grow to become scaffolding for blood vessels.
	So, you know, right now when people have like a Aortic bypass, you need to take a Dacron type of graft and use that instead of the patient's own if it has damage.
	We'll be able to actually grow blood vessels such as aortic tissue, things like that, because that's also a simple tissue, basically just a tube.
	So I think that these type of stem cell grown tissues will be available in the next few years.
	We'll be waiting a very long time for these.
	That song was pessimistic, wasn't it?
	25-25 song.
	I think that really they're out of the ballpark altogether.
	Because they're not taking into account the fact that change is accelerating.
	Technical progress is really changing at an accelerating rate.
	And right now, for instance, we have accomplished, or we are at a rate to accomplish as much technological change in the first 20 years of this century as we did in the entire last century.
	So, the technology is increasing exponentially?
	Exponentially.
	The rate of change is increasing, so that from 2000 to 2020, we'll accomplish 100 years of progression.
	Then again, from 2020 to 2034, 14 years, we'll do another 100 years.
	a hundred years of progression. Then again from 2020 to 2034, 14 years, we'll do another
	hundred years. Then in seven years, we'll do another hundred years. So when will that
	To what do you attribute this acceleration from what it otherwise ought to be?
	Well, it just is the nature of, this is what's happening in the bandwidth of computers, this is what's happening.
	If you take a lot of technological progress and plot them on a logarithmic curve, you'll notice that the curve is not straight, that it's actually Also, an exponential curve, which means that the rate of change is also increasing.
	So, it just seemed to be the nature of technology, and now we're at the steep part of this curve.
	So, actually extrapolating this out, we anticipate that in the 21st century, we'll actually accomplish the equivalent of 20,000 years of change at today's rate.
	Alright, well, a selfish question.
	At 59 and yourself 57, if we were to do the things that would get us decades further down the line, just decades, is there any hope, Doctor, that at some point, not only will you be able to virtually arrest age, I suppose, or aging, Or maybe that's a whole separate question, but would there be a point where it could be rolled back to a more ideal point?
	In other words, made younger?
	I think that we'll approach these challenges one at a time, and the first challenge is really to extend human lifespan so that people our age will be able to take full advantage of these technologies that we've just started to hint at.
	For instance, Women in Japan right now, the average life expectancy is 90 years.
	So if we were to just simply reach that average, that really gives us another 30 some years, which will probably allow us to take advantage of most of these technologies.
	So the first hurdle is to live long enough to take advantage of the technologies.
	The second hurdle will be to basically stop the aging process so that each year we don't really continue to age.
	And in some ways we're able to measure the aging process.
	I have a machine in my office that actually measures biological age.
	I measure the biological age of my patients and I have seen in many cases where people undergo the type of therapies that we do in a longevity clinic, that their biological age decreases.
	How do you measure it?
	Well, it measures a number of different parameters that are associated with aging.
	For instance, We know that the ability to hear high frequency deteriorates with age.
	Yes.
	So one of the tests that this, it's a computerized device, and one of the tests that the computerized device does is it measures high frequency hearing, or hearing loss.
	Another thing that changes with age is memory.
	So the device, it plays a game with the patient, like Othello, where you have to follow the buttons and remember 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and it keeps going, becoming more and more complex.
	So it also measures memory.
	I think I've got the idea.
	And it does several other tests as well in terms of reaction time and lung function and things like that.
	And then it actually calculates what your biological age is.
	All right.
	If somebody were to undergo all the currently available treatments for life extension and then were to take a test on your machine before and after, what What are the best expectations, Doctor?
	I have seen people roll back as much as 15 years.
	Oh.
	16 years in their biological age.
	So, I think that's a very impressive change.
	So, you know, we've seen cases where people look younger, thanks to plastic surgery and things like that.
	Well, I think we can also make the inside younger through these other strategies, which are really, at today, what we refer to as the Bridge One strategies.
	Yes.
	So with the BridgeOne strategies, we can roll back the clock to some degree.
	Right.
	Well, let's touch on the BridgeOne a little bit because it's what's happening right now.
	If you wanted to go through the full Magilla and do everything that's available to roll you back biologically, physiologically, how much would you spend?
	What would you do?
	Well, some of the things are very inexpensive and people Well, you'll begin, of course, with eating properly.
	We would discuss, you know, what would be an appropriate diet for you.
	Yes.
	And the first thing we would do is we would begin to, you know, remove simple sugars from your diet because sugar makes you old.
	That laugh you may have heard from the other room was my wife.
	So, an appropriate diet.
	So, sugar makes you old?
	Sugar makes you old.
	Of all of the foods that you can eat, there's probably nothing that makes you old quicker than simple sugar.
	So, really, we call sugar the white Satan.
	We really encourage people... The white Satan?
	The white Satan.
	I'm glad I drink my coffee black.
	That's a good start.
	But we're also talking about sugar in soft drinks.
	That's probably the biggest source of sugar for most Americans.
	I have a friend who's on his way out soon, then.
	I mean, he just had one, one, after another, after another, carbonated, totally addicted to carbonated drinks.
	Well, you know, the average American consumes somewhere in the neighborhood of 154 pounds of sugar a year.
	And that has increased also exponentially, unfortunately, over the past several decades.
	It was only in the neighborhood of 20 pounds or so at the beginning of the last century.
	So that's gone way, way up.
	And it's really been associated with a lot of degenerative diseases.
	The white Satan seems a little strong, or maybe not.
	It really causes disease.
	It causes what to happen to you.
	Well, let me give you an example.
	You've heard of the PET scan.
	Oh yes.
	Which is a scan that is used to detect cancer cells.
	Well, as you may know, the PET scan uses radioactive sugar molecules to detect the cancer cells.
	Why is that?
	Because cancer cells are so avid in their uptake of sugar.
	So, cancer cells love sugar.
	So, when you want to feed a cancer cell, eat sugar.
	When you want to starve a cancer cell, avoid sugar.
	Got it.
	So, the same thing applies to heart disease, and heart disease is the number one cause of death in the U.S.
	And cancer is the number two cause of death, and heart disease is also dramatically accelerated by consumption of sugar.
	So, simply by reducing sugar consumption, you reduce your risk of heart disease and cancer.
	Alright, well let's put our cards on the table here.
	When we're talking about diet, are we talking about something where you might as well be dead anyway because you can eat nothing but chopped green things with other unrecognizable floating things around in there?
	Is that what you're reduced to?
	No, because some of these diets, if you follow them, you might not live any longer, but it'll certainly seem like you did.
	Maybe that's because you're eating such horrid food, every bite is a lifetime.
	Exactly.
	I lived with the Japanese for a decade, and I know the Japanese are...
	It's very good, and I know that you've been to Okinawa, and I've been to Japan on several occasions, and I've lectured over there, and I really love the Japanese, and I love their culture, and I love their food and their diet.
	You've been to Japan.
	Yes, I've been to Japan.
	Do you recall going in front of some Japanese bakery windows and inside, in Japan, a restaurant or some place that serves food, they put little plates out with a fake but very realistic looking food that you will get when you go inside.
	I mean, it's all displayed right there.
	Little plastic plates of food.
	That's right.
	It didn't do much for me, I'll tell you.
	Shocks Americans.
	Anyway, I can recall going in and ordering this incredibly delicious looking cupcake.
	Oh my God, it was just wonderful.
	And a chocolate on the top and little sprinkles of cool stuff.
	And I walked into this Japanese bakery.
	I got a couple of these big sugary cupcakes and I started eating.
	And you know what it all was?
	It was soy!
	Soy!
	Soy!
	It was the most disagreeable experience I ever had in my life!
	But that's what they do.
	I've made trips to Japan each year for the past three years, and unfortunately I have watched what has happened in Japan over the last three years, which is there's been a progression in the incidence of overweight Japanese.
	The Americanization of Japan.
	The Americanization of Japan.
	And I know you've been to Okinawa.
	Yes.
	And Okinawa is famous for a philosophy that they have over there called Hara Hachibu.
	And Hara Hachibu means stomach 80% full.
	And this practice is essentially reducing your calories so that you get up from the table not stuffed.
	So that you're still a little bit, a little bit hungry even.
	And this Hara Haki Boo philosophy is really a form of caloric restriction.
	And I think this is the reason that the Okinawans have more centenarians, people who live past 100 years than any place on Earth.
	They sure do.
	And when Okinawans, it's not because Okinawans have better genes than people elsewhere in Japan or elsewhere in the world.
	It's what they eat.
	It's the way they eat and what they eat.
	And when the Okinawans move to Hawaii, they live less long.
	And when they move to California, they live less yet.
	So it's really this caloric restriction and eating properly.
	So really eating like the Japanese do, eating a lot of fish, drinking green tea, eating vegetables, not overdoing on the sweets.
	You're telling me then that the diet that you would have to assume would be much like the Okinawans?
	Not necessarily.
	That's one type of diet.
	we also like the mediterranean diet the diet that's rich in tomato products
	and olive oil and uh... fresh fish
	a little bit of chicken lots of fresh vegetables
	uh... that diet is also associated with longevity and in a very healthy diet so
	people can pick and choose they don't just need to eat sushi and uh... octopus and
	things like that people can pick
	what is right for them and the diet that that i follow
	is quite varied and it's very enjoyable and i don't eat sugar but i
	do well with the fight and i enjoy it what a strange what percentage of the first level
	treatments for longevity would die at represent
	What percent?
	I don't know that I can give it a precise number, but I think that's one of the most fundamental.
	If you eat a very bad diet, I think that it's hard to overcome a lot of the other factors.
	Let's put it that way.
	So, you know, a significant percent.
	So let's say 20-25% at least.
	Would it be the end of hamburgers, doctor?
	No, not necessarily.
	But if you're going to eat hamburgers, It might be better to eat a very lean cut, because it's not so much the meat as the fat in the meat, so eating a very lean cut of meat would be good.
	People have turkey burgers, people have buffalo burgers, and hamburgers as well, but the leaner cuts are better to do.
	So it's not a matter of not eating them, it's just eating them, you know, don't eat them every day.
	Turkey burgers.
	Alright, now what other Modalities.
	What other things can be done early on, right now, in fact, to extend age beyond that kind of eating?
	Well, in addition to eating, I think we need to look at supplementation, the taking of nutrients that are not obtained in diet.
	Antioxidants, vitamins, minerals, things along those lines.
	And we believe in an aggressive supplementation approach.
	So I think people can assess where they are biochemically at this stage of their life,
	and then design a supplement program that will help them to actually,
	we referred to it, my co-author Ray Kurzweil and I, he came up with a term to reprogram our biochemistry.
	And I think that's a very appropriate term.
	We can, with supplementation, actually reprogram our biochemistry
	to take advantage of the full expression of the bridge one therapy.
	Are these bridge one therapies going to continue to be available?
	I mean, I've heard these horror stories of supplement stores being raided and somehow officialdom not wanting a lot of these things sold.
	Are some of these things valuable things that they don't want us to have and they're clamping down on?
	Or is it the fringe stuff that doesn't matter anyway?
	What I've heard, and I think in Europe they have more control, actually the United States has considerable freedom as regards supplementation.
	I'm sure you've heard about the raids, though, Doctor.
	Yes, I have.
	This represents an unfortunate trend, because we really have enjoyed considerable freedom in the ability, like for instance in Australia, melatonin is illegal, and in Canada, DHEA I believe is illegal.
	Every country has different laws.
	The United States has actually Quite free with our ability to obtain supplements, and it would be a shame, very unfortunate, in this progress to eliminate that.
	Is that possible?
	I mean, might they begin to eliminate it?
	Are you worried about that?
	Yeah, I'm worried about it.
	So far, so good, because we do have a number, you know, a very large percentage of Americans do take supplementation.
	That was one thing that I found very surprising in Japan.
	In Japan, very few people take supplements.
	But you could look at my physical condition, for example, examine me, and recommend a laundry list of things that I would go and buy supplements that I would begin to take, right?
	Yes, based on, you know, we would do like genetic tests, measure certain genes that
	you have, find out what you're predisposed to.
	But I'd come away with a list.
	Yeah, you'd come away with a list of supplements that would be of value to you.
	All right, hold tight.
	We're at the top of the hour.
	From the high desert in the middle of the night, I'm Art Bell.
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	It certainly is!
	And my guest is Dr. Terry Grossman, who just finished telling us how good Turkey would be for us.
	We're discussing Oh, I don't know, the possibility eventually of living forever, and certainly of severe life extension.
	Much of it possible beginning, really, right now.
	And if you didn't know that, you're going to want to listen very carefully.
	I am not a big Turkey fan, he says, as it comes toward Thanksgiving and another opportunity to eat turkey.
	I once took a flight to Puerto Rico, and I was going to name the airlines, but I guess I won't.
	And, you know, it's finally mealtime and, you know, it's a pretty long trip from the West Coast to Puerto Rico.
	Anyway, so the stewardess comes up and they hand out a little thing with the meal.
	This was back in the days when they actually served meals on airliners, serious meals.
	And there was a menu, you know, and you know what the choice was?
	The choice was turkey Burgers, actually it said burgers and then turkey in parenthesis.
	So, turkey burgers.
	You know, I'm not a big turkey burger person, so I, and then the other choices were, so you'd get turkey burgers, turkey ham, or turkey.
	That was the choice.
	Turkey burgers, turkey ham, or turkey.
	And I wrote a scathing letter to the airline in question, and I told them it was a foul choice indeed.
	Once again, Dr. Terry Grossman.
	So, we're discussing Um, two levels.
	Level two, of course, is pretty magical.
	That'll be when stem cells, for example, as one example, can be ordered to grow you a new organ.
	That's level two.
	It's not that many years away.
	It's the level one stuff that may get those of you who are listening right now to that stage, or even a little further.
	And we're not quite done.
	So far, level one is, I don't know, I guess what you would expect.
	Get a better diet.
	Eat better.
	Turkey burgers.
	And supplements.
	A laundry list of supplements.
	It would be a designer set for you by a doctor who knows what he's doing, like Dr. Grossman.
	What else in Level 1?
	What about these growth hormones, that kind of thing?
	Where does that fit in, Doctor?
	Well, I like the use of bio-identical hormone replacement to help with the diseases of aging.
	There's been a lot of controversy lately, as I'm sure you know, With regard to, certainly, women's hormone replacement therapy with the Women's Health Initiative trial, a lot of women have found themselves without the ability to get prescriptions for these hormones that have been shown to not only help the symptoms of menopause, but actually help with the aging process itself.
	So we've resorted to using bioidentical hormones and, luckily, bioidentical hormones, which are the identical hormone to what's found naturally in the body.
	So we don't replace progesterone with a progestin, such as Provera.
	We replace progesterone with progesterone.
	We replace estrogen with estrogen.
	Now, what's the diff?
	In other words, these identical but different in what way?
	Well, for instance, when a woman takes Provera, which is a very common synthetic progestin, It is a completely different molecule in progesterone that's found naturally in a woman's body.
	And when a woman takes Premarin, it is actually a derivative of pregnant mare's urine.
	That's why it's called Premarin, pregnant mare urine.
	This product has a lot of hormones that are similar to what a woman has, but it has a very different ratio of hormones, and it also has a number of hormones that are specific for horses and are not found in In the human female.
	So, when women take these artificial hormones, they sometimes have some side effects that they don't seem to get when they take the bioidentical hormones.
	So, therefore, by using bioidentical hormones, we can achieve these benefits without the downside.
	What, do they get hunger for hay?
	No, not exactly.
	But, you know, like the Women's Health Initiative did find that women who took the Premarin Provera Had a higher incidence of heart attack, and it was interesting because the study was designed to show that these hormones actually reduce the risk of heart attack.
	And so it showed something else instead.
	Yeah, they got us surprised.
	And that's how the great controversy grew.
	So you think that... What did you call them again?
	I'm sorry.
	Bioidentical.
	Bioidentical hormones.
	Yeah, so we're using bioidentical hormones to replace hormones.
	How do you know that bio-identical hormones... I mean, has the same study been done with respect to heart problems or whatever?
	There have been some small studies that have suggested that the bio-identical hormones are safer.
	We don't have any large studies like the Women's Health Initiative, which had over 15,000 women in them, but the preliminary smaller studies with the bio-identical Suggest that these may be free of the side effects associated with the other hormones.
	And can men also get shots of bio-identical hormones that are beneficial or not?
	Yes, absolutely.
	Yes.
	And men actually do go through a male menopause.
	And after about age 50, what happens with men is their male hormones, their testosterone levels, begin to decline somewhat.
	But even more importantly, their estrogen levels tend to increase.
	And most people don't realize this, but the average 55-year-old man has more estrogen circulating in his bloodstream than an average 55-year-old woman.
	And where estrogen is beneficial and a youth-providing hormone for a woman, for a man, it doesn't promote youth.
	Wow, that's a wow.
	I had no idea that was so.
	The average 55-year-old man has more.
	You and I, for instance.
	Oh, brother.
	We probably have more estrogen in our bodies.
	than women our age. Significantly more.
	I feel fouled. Well it is a problem because estrogen in men, while it has
	some advantages, men do have to have some estrogen because it
	it actually helps our minds. It's associated with a decreased chance of
	Alzheimer's disease.
	But we need some estrogen but too much actually is what causes
	problems with the prostate and some other issues.
	So we need to control our estrogen, and we can do this with some of our supplements that we take.
	Alright, and these bioidentical hormones would be administered how?
	Orally or topically.
	Oh really?
	Yeah.
	One of the main problems with these bioidentical hormones, and why the drug companies resorted to the use of the artificial hormones, was because if you take Estrogen, just as estrogen or progesterone, that's identical to what's found in the body, or testosterone, and put it in a pill and swallow it, it is immediately destroyed by stomach acid.
	So, what they needed to do initially was they formulated into a gel or a cream that men and women could apply topically to their skin, but now they have a micronized form, or a sublingual form that dissolves under the tongue, and in these formulations, uh... men and women can get these uh... hormone into their
	bodies to help produce the effect the desired effect
	without reporting to the artificial hormones how profound is it
	at the airport eighty strategy i think it has some value at the life extension strategy i don't think we found that
	it that people will replacement
	any significant effect spending life
	but they maintain the quality of the life that we have Well, that's important.
	Absolutely.
	So it's squaring the curve so that we don't decline as we age, but we stay at a high level.
	All right.
	And what else in level one?
	Well, you know, there's of course the usual things like controlling stress.
	Stress is an ager.
	I mentioned one hormone, or excuse me, one chemical that was associated with aging, and that chemical is sugar.
	Another chemical that's very profoundly associated with aging is cortisol.
	And cortisol is the stress hormone.
	And cortisol both ages you and destroys your mind.
	And they've done experiments where they've taken laboratory animals, like mice, and taught them to run a maze, and then given them injections of cortisol, a stress hormone, and the mice promptly forgot how to run the maze.
	Really?
	Yes, so, and when we do that to ourselves, and cortisol is unfortunately a concomitant of modern living, we're all subject to low-grade stress all the time.
	It's not the fight or flight of the caveman and then relaxing.
	It's a very stressful, very stressful world, doctor.
	I don't recall almost any patient that I ask if they have a stressful lifestyle and they say no.
	I mean, it's very rare that people say to me, oh no, I don't have any stress, or I don't have any significant stress in my life.
	I think it's just a concomitant of the age.
	That we live in.
	But anyway, it is, so controlling cortisol, and you can do that through one of the other pyramids of the Bridge One therapies, which is exercise.
	Exercise will reduce stress.
	And meditation or prayer, whatever it is that reduces stress for that individual, is of value.
	Going to yoga classes, things like that.
	So that's a very, very important part.
	And I think perhaps one of the most important of all, and the thing that will give people A payoff almost immediately is the early detection of disease.
	And I mentioned the two big killers in the United States, heart disease and cancer.
	And heart disease, we had very imprecise means of detecting heart disease until it was too late.
	A la Bill Clinton.
	Here's a man who had access to the best medical care yet.
	He ended up having heart disease undetected until he needed essentially an emergency bypass.
	Right.
	Well, we have technology that enables doctors to detect heart disease five or ten years before its clinical expression.
	In other words, before people develop chest pain or have a heart attack.
	And those technologies involve the use of non-invasive testing.
	Up until recently, we had to do a catheter, which was inserted in the groin and then inject Die into the heart, which is very invasive and actually associated with a certain small percent risk of fatality.
	So we're not going to do that as a screening test.
	It's too dangerous and it's too expensive.
	But if we can do that with a CAT scan, and we can now, then we can detect heart disease before it becomes manifest, and then patients can be put on appropriate supplementations, appropriate dial, lifestyle changes, and medicine if needed, then we can stop heart disease from occurring.
	All right.
	And I think in most cases, heart disease is preventable.
	All of these things taken together then might give you decades if you did them all somewhat.
	If you take them all together, I think we are talking about decades.
	So we're talking about people our age in the late 50s.
	If we can add a decade or two to our life, that flips us under the wire when these bridge two and then ultimately bridge three therapies will begin to kick in.
	What about the brain?
	I guess we understand less about the brain than nearly any other organ in our body, truly.
	So, isn't there the danger of the physical body being quite healthy, but a mental deterioration making it all absolutely not worthwhile?
	Well, absolutely.
	If we are unable to experience our lives And our brain is the interface through which we experience the reality.
	If we don't have a functioning mind, we don't know what's going on, then it's all for nothing.
	But I think that the same strategies that keep our bodies healthy will also keep our minds healthy.
	You think so?
	Absolutely.
	Even at latter stages, when you get to stage two, for example.
	Yeah, the bridge two strategy.
	to threaten to help operative my i'm i'm i'm lucky
	uh... in in in one way in that genetically of one of my grandparents would be all four
	hundred and five uh... and he was very sharp and his memory was was
	perfectly intact and when he just died suddenly with stroke shortly before
	hundred birthday he still has faculty were were quite good
	that i think people can do that I think he kept his mind alive, he was fluent in a half a dozen languages, he read in all of those languages,
	And by keeping your mind active, I think we can, the brain is like that, like a muscle.
	We keep the brain active, I think we can maintain, and once again, avoiding excessive stress.
	Because over the course of decades, excessive stress will attack the mind and actually kill
	neurons.
	Yes, I just, in our society, there are societies where, you know, stress is relatively low.
	Our society is definitely not one of those.
	No, we're not living in a French Polynesian type of world.
	No, no, no.
	We're a real type A personality, and the stress is everywhere.
	And yet, we have increased our longevity quite significantly already in modern day, haven't we?
	Yes, absolutely.
	But I think we can do even more by You know, I don't think it's possible to really, you know, eliminate stress from our lives.
	And I think we all need stress in our lives because without, you know, stress there really is no, you just become too complacent and, you know, you don't accomplish much with your life.
	I think stress is actually a good thing in limited amounts.
	It's just where stress spirals out of control and interferes with health, then it's a bad thing.
	And when it becomes a discomfort, then we have to take measures to control it through the other strategies.
	Alright, we've discussed Bridge II, which to us today seems magic.
	The stem cells, and there's probably more, isn't there?
	Oh, absolutely.
	What else is in Bridge II?
	Well, we hinted on, you mentioned telomere therapy, and the telomeres are the end caps of the chromosomes, and every time the chromosome divides, a telomere comes off.
	There are these beads at the end of the chromosomes, and there is an enzyme called telomerase, which keeps the end caps on.
	And with telomere, telomerase strategies, we may be able to extend life.
	That's one of the therapies.
	We have hinted a little bit about therapeutic cloning.
	Therapeutic cloning is the creation of organs and tissues, the creation of a heart muscle, the creation of a cornea or a bone or things like that, or even an entire heart.
	But we're not talking about reproductive cloning a la Dolly.
	We're not talking about creating clones of ourselves, but harnessing cloning, therapeutic cloning, where we create tissues and organs that we need.
	This is a wonderful strategy that could lead to many, many decades of additional life for people.
	Proteomics and genomics.
	Genomics is a therapy that's available today.
	It's a diagnostic modality where we can actually look and see what genes people have.
	Because if you know, for instance, that you're predisposed to get Alzheimer's disease, then there's certain things you can do to reduce your risk.
	And if you know that you're predisposed to developing lung cancer, for instance, then you want to be very, very careful to live the type of life that reduces your risks of that.
	So with the gene genomics therapies, you can do that today, which has only been available in the last few years.
	And then that'll lead to what's called proteomics therapies, whereby knowing what genes you have, genes express themselves by making proteins,
	you can actually design proteins to accomplish specific goals
	or to block certain genes. So we have all types of therapies
	to affect genes, gene-based therapies, that will lead to dramatic increases in
	lifespan and health.
	So you do believe, don't you, that someday, some year, some decade, it's going to be possible
	to virtually keep people alive?
	Well, let's put it this way, for as long as they would like to be,
	I'm not going to be able to keep them alive.
	I think so.
	I think we're really on that steep part of the exponential curve of lifespan.
	And I think later this century, and if not that many decades off, perhaps the next two decades, three decades, we're going to approach lifespans that are very, very significantly longer.
	And it's hard to calculate what they're going to be, but I think they may be Drastically longer than what we're accustomed to.
	Okay, there's even as wild as Bridge 2 has been, there's going to be a Bridge 3?
	Yes, Bridge 3 is what we're really, that's the really killer app here.
	And that's what's going to, when that kicks in, we're going to be talking about lifespans that are currently unfathomable.
	And the Bridge 3 really relies, Bridge 2 relies on the biotechnology revolution, Bridge 3 relies on the nanotechnology revolution.
	And, Bridge 3 underway, if it were underway today, what can you imagine our prospects would be?
	Bridge 3 is fully in use today.
	If Bridge 3 were in use today?
	Yes, sir.
	Then I think that we would be able to remain useful, essentially for an indefinite period of time.
	If we, you know, wanted to be 25 years of age and look 25 and have a 25 year old brain, I think with the Bridge 3 therapies at full fruition, it's not unrealistic that we could remain 25 for an indefinite period of time.
	And then the only thing that really would interfere with our continued survival would be an accident.
	I'm really glad you brought up the question of accident, because after the break I've got something I would like to read to you.
	And just as a very quick question, all the way from Mike in Korea, writing all the way from Korea, He says, greetings from South Korea, great show.
	What's the doctor's opinion of severe caloric restrictive diets and extending life?
	Caloric restriction is, in animal experiments, the only therapy that we have found so far to actually extend lifespan.
	Wow!
	All right, hold that thought.
	We'll come back to it.
	And to Dr. Terry Grossman, middle of the night, middle of the darkness, this is Coast to Coast AM.
	So you want to live forever?
	I'll take that as a yes at about 2 in the morning.
	It's 2 a.m.
	and I'm here at the office.
	It's 2 a.m.
	The wind starts to warm, and the next fight is every chance.
	The heart of the city street is beating.
	The light from the neon's turned the dark to day.
	♪ We all have a right to die ♪ We were too hot to fit in sleeping.
	We had to get out before the magic got away.
	In the morning with the night.
	Playing in the shadows.
	You and I.
	To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
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	number, pressing Option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
	From coast to coast, and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	It is, listen here, my guest is a highly credentialed physician, professor, Terry Grossman, anti-aging, and he's described Several bridges, and we're on Bridge 1 right now.
	That's a time when you can actually extend your life by several decades if you do the right things.
	We've described Bridge 2, which begins to get a little more magical.
	You know, the stem cells, things like that, telomeres.
	Then there's Bridge 3, and Bridge 3 is what we're talking about right now.
	Bridge 3...
	Means that you virtually would have the opportunity to live forever, save the possibility of an accident.
	and I'm going to bring that one up in a moment.
	Sound of a rocket taking off.
	Not science fiction.
	You're listening to, you know, the real thing this morning.
	Both what can be done now and what's coming.
	And I got a very interesting email from a fellow named Joel.
	And Joel just asks some really superb questions, so I want to be sure that Joel gets credit for the email for the questions.
	These are good ones, Joel.
	And here's where it begins.
	On Coast to Coast tonight, please, if you would, talk about the increasing mathematical probability of death by accident as we get older.
	Check this out.
	About 25 years ago, I read somewhere that the probability of accidental death approached 99-plus percent during a 700-year human lifespan.
	To put it another way, If humans had the natural ability to live to be a thousand years old, then 99% of us would be dead by age 700, even in good health, because there was a 99% probability of death by accidental cause during the first 700 years of life.
	Doctor?
	Yes, Art.
	These mathematical models have been done by statisticians up till now.
	And I don't know what the exact figures are, and I don't know what models they used to build this, but I think he's pretty close to correct on these, because if we reach the point where the bridge tree technologies are in full blossom, and we are able to live on it for an indefinite period thanks to these technologies, then really the only thing we need to worry about is some sort of accident, or catastrophe, if you would.
	And the statistical models indicate that that sort of catastrophe would occur somewhere Like the bell-shaped curve would be somewhere in the neighborhood of 300, 400 years.
	So half the people would die somewhere around that time.
	And then a few would live well beyond that.
	But I think he's right.
	despite it, 700 years, the overwhelming majority of people would have, during that 700 years,
	suffered a fatal accident.
	Wouldn't people freak out?
	I mean, wouldn't they all of a sudden adopt this never-get-out-of-bed psychology?
	Wouldn't there begin to be a psychosis that would spread across the land like wildfire
	now that you can virtually live forever?
	All you've got to fear is an accident, so we'd become so damn safety conscious that
	we'd have warning labels on pens.
	Well, I'd like to be there to try to deal with that problem.
	Yes, I hear you.
	All right, but you think his figures are based on... Those are the models that I've heard of.
	Now, it may be what we're not taking into account here, and what these mathematical models are not taking into account, is that technology is not just going to allow people to live longer.
	Technology is also going to allow people to maybe reduce the likelihood of these accidents and to make the world a safer place.
	So there's all sorts of things that we're not taking into account.
	We're basing these statistics on today's world and maybe even today's response to these dangers.
	So these may change in tandem with our technological advancement.
	that will allow it to live longer.
	Alright, number two from Joel is as follows.
	Is it possible that currently unknown adverse medical conditions
	could occur in the age group of 200 years of age and older?
	For example, I doubt there was much occurrence of Alzheimer's disease 500 years ago
	few people ever live long enough to get it. So his question is a very interesting
	one. In other words, there might be some new terrible malady that would occur
	around 200. Is that possible? It's certainly possible, but I don't think
	it's too likely. Or even if it were likely, I think that we would have the
	same technologies that enable us to deal with the aging process itself would
	enable us to deal with that disease process itself. So I think that it's
	possible but I think it would be treatable.
	Possible, but treatable.
	The example he gave was a pretty good one.
	Alzheimer's.
	500 years ago, I'm sure he's right, very few ever got Alzheimer's.
	They didn't live that long.
	Period.
	So they wouldn't have even discovered Alzheimer's until relatively modern times.
	Yes, that's true.
	But I think that the technologies that will be coming in breakthrough, the nanotechnology, will really make it possible that Alzheimer's is relegated to, you know, the dustbin of history.
	It won't be an active problem in the future.
	All right.
	And then, finally, Joel says, is it possible that humans are genetically wired so that some latent brain functions, like mental telepathy, for example, appear routinely in all humans after a certain age?
	For example, 200 years old.
	For example, human reproduction ability doesn't start until around age Yes, it's certainly possible.
	I don't know if that's true.
	Something like telepathy would be expressed at a certain advanced age.
	So, I mean, there are things that occur at landmark ages in the aging process itself,
	yes?
	Yes, it's certainly possible.
	I don't know if that's true, something like telepathy would be expressed at a certain
	advanced age.
	You know, it's certainly possible.
	But I think that with the nanotechnology that's coming, we will be able to achieve virtual
	mental telepathy with essentially having ourselves wired to one another with, you know, internet
	access built into ourselves.
	Brain implants.
	Yes, something along those lines.
	I think that those will enable us to have internet capability.
	Doctor, what about one other?
	There's another Possibility for the continued existence of ourselves and our consciousness as we understand it.
	We're racing ahead in the computer world in both speed and storage.
	I'm sure you're well familiar with the advances we're making in the computer world.
	They're astounding.
	And one day many people think it may be possible To download the contents of one's brain into a computer.
	Into a computer?
	So that you have downloaded yourself out of this physical body and into a bunch of what we call chips today.
	They may not be chips then, but chips today we call them.
	So have you looked into that?
	We're exploring what this means, and the idea of downloading memories, which I think will be doable in the not-too-distant future, will also be doable, but no one's looking to, you know, download the memories and then upload them into a computer chip and live a virtual existence.
	It's certainly not my goal to get rid of biology altogether.
	Instead, you know, what I look for in anti-aging medicine, longevity medicine, is to perfect human potential.
	And, you know, I'm not looking to interfere with that indescribable human essence that we refer to as consciousness or the soul.
	I think that we are looking to enhance, not replace, the human body.
	To those people out in the audience right now who would say, look, this is all interesting, but you know what?
	I'm a biological person.
	I believe aging is a natural process.
	I look forward to my soul's reward for the wonderful life that I've led so far on this earth.
	A little personal laughter.
	And so I'm not into all of this.
	Aging is a natural, well, it's nature.
	And I look forward to the reward there on the other side.
	Or whatever's waiting.
	Well, I certainly think that everyone is entitled to do whatever they want or not do what they want, but as human beings, we as a species were not content to live the 18 or 30 years that we were given to our ancestors thousands of years ago.
	Life back then was very, very difficult and filled with hazards.
	And really, the ultimate goal of all the advances we've had over the last centuries has been to improve human performance, to alleviate
	suffering, and to extend life.
	Now we're just moving to a point where we're doing it a little bit better than we've done
	in the past.
	So if people don't want to do that, I guess it's just a matter of where do you draw the
	line.
	Well, you do understand that there are people with belief systems, and frankly, those perhaps
	who don't have them that are quite content with the way it's laid out today and how it
	works and the fact that our life ends at a certain time.
	But what happens when they get pneumonia?
	I mean, there are certain subgroups of society that don't treat pneumonia with antibiotics, but most people, the overwhelming majority, when they are challenged with a life-threatening disease, they seek medical care to treat it.
	So as long as the quality of life is good, I mean, If you're healthy and you're feeling good, if you have a disease that could be easily cured by technologies that are available, I just don't think people are going to turn their back on these technologies, whether they occur at age 18 or whether they occur at age 112.
	So you think it would be the foxhole conversion kind of deal?
	Say one thing now, but if it came right down to it, give me that liver.
	Exactly!
	You know, the question is, Who'd want to live to be 120 anyway?
	And the answer is, just ask anybody who's 119.
	So really, when you... Is that really true?
	I mean, I know that it sounds good to say that.
	But is it really, really true, or are a lot of people who are a hundred and... Well, there aren't a lot of people a hundred and nineteen.
	Oldest living person just here died recently, as a matter of fact.
	But there are people on up there in their nineties or so, and there are a lot of people who say, I'm ready to go.
	Or do you believe that just really, honestly isn't true?
	There aren't people who are ready to go and to be done with life.
	That just couldn't be true.
	Do you really believe that?
	Well, I'm a doctor and I've, in the course of my practice career, I've seen a lot of patients who are on both sides of that question.
	There are patients who are, at any age, I've seen patients who are quite young and they've had enough because life has really dealt them a pretty bad hand to play.
	And their life really has been very, very difficult and filled with suffering.
	And I also know people who are very, very advanced in years and have enjoyed life and don't want to give it up at all.
	And they fight and fight and fight.
	And they actually overcome very critical illnesses.
	So it just depends on the individual circumstance.
	I don't think we can assess a specific age to answer that question.
	It really is an individual matter.
	Well, here's sort of a medical question.
	Of those people who meet up with a life-challenging disease or condition, Of those who have an incredibly strong will to live and beat their disease, as opposed to those who just give up and allow it to consume them and say goodbye mentally, how much difference in cure rate is there?
	I think it's very substantial.
	I have seen people recover from illnesses that I did not think they had much chance Uh-huh.
	And yet they overcame it, and I think it was due to a combination of their will to live, the prayers and well-wishes of many people around them, a number of circumstances that are above and beyond.
	Wait, wait.
	Prayers?
	Yes.
	You said also due to the prayers?
	Yes.
	Well, oh really.
	Do you believe there is a conscious existence or that the soul or any other part of us or our consciousness survives physical death, Doctor?
	You know, I have my own religious beliefs.
	I don't know if I want to go into those right now, but I do believe that when people pray or when they pray for someone else's health... I agree with you, it works.
	You know, they're putting this very powerful energy into the world.
	It's healing energy.
	That actually helps.
	You believe that?
	I do believe that, and I believe it's been documented.
	In the What the Bleep Do You Know movie that came out recently, they showed a molecular structure, spectrographic analysis of water, that was prayed over by Buddhist monks, I believe.
	That's right.
	And it showed this incredibly elegant structure.
	And then they had this water that was also, very ugly words of anger were said over.
	And it had a very ugly structure, so I think we actually have physical documentation That by putting this type of positive healing energy into the world, you can actually affect change in the world.
	You can create that.
	So, from that point of view, I do think that well wishes and prayer can help in the healing process.
	I agree with you.
	Absolutely agree.
	Thank you very much.
	But I'm going to rephrase the question a little.
	I'm going to do it this way.
	Doctor, as a scientist, as a physician, how would you answer that question?
	Just forget about the religious faith for a second.
	As a scientist and a doctor.
	As a scientist and a doctor in terms of, is there consciousness after the physical plane?
	Yes, sir.
	As a scientist and doctor, I have to say, I don't know.
	That's the only honest answer I can say because I don't have any scientific evidence.
	That would lead me to believe.
	But I feel as a human, maybe different, but as a scientist, I don't see anything.
	There's been no proof to me.
	It's fairly unusual that you would say, I don't know.
	Most scientists and doctors I have on the air, and there have been many of them over the years, Give me an honest answer of no, Art.
	I don't think there's any existence after physical death of any, in any form whatsoever.
	I mean, they're fairly sure about that.
	And these are your colleagues, so would you guess that to be true?
	Would you guess yourself to be somewhat of an exception?
	Perhaps, but I just know what I do believe, and the only thing I can say is, you know, this is a question that I just don't know how science can answer.
	So, it's beyond the realm of science.
	So, I can't give a definitive answer one way or the other.
	Well, it's very enlightened, believe me.
	People among your professionals, very enlightened indeed.
	Most just come right out and say no.
	What do you think convinces so many scientists and physicians that it's probably all a bunch of hooey?
	Well, science tends to, you know, require evidence.
	scientific method. You really need to have evidence-based approach.
	Absolutely. And we're talking about issues outside of what's our
	reality and can be demonstrated scientifically. I think scientists as a
	rule are a group that gravitates toward what is in the here and now.
	And anything that they cannot demonstrate with an experiment or in the laboratory bench or things like that, they just tend to discount as not being possible.
	It's not true.
	So perhaps they might want to give an answer, a more direct answer of no, it's not possible.
	Well, they do.
	They do in great numbers, indeed.
	So when you get in, I would imagine you've had some lively conversations with other physicians, probably through medical school and all your life, I would guess, huh?
	Oh, certainly.
	The type of medicine that I practice in my clinic is not really, you know, mainstream.
	So, you know, there's a lot of room for discussion about a lot of things that I do.
	Let's say that you had 700 years of life, barring an accident.
	Isn't there the concern that you'd virtually get bored to death?
	Well, I think, once again, if we We're to live a life like we're living today, and not anything else change.
	We have the same type of reality.
	Yes, it would get boring, but I think that part of the nanotechnology revolution will also bring a revolution in the ability to experience reality.
	And things like virtual reality, real virtual reality, will enhance our quality of life so much With nanobots, these are the nanobiotic robots that will be circulating throughout our brain, expanding human consciousness and intelligence.
	I mean, we potentially will be so much more intelligent than we are now, able to think so much more quickly, and assimilate so much more information, that I don't think we will get bored in the future.
	So instead of television programs, we might choose to have The real experience to, in some way, live the life of somebody who's led a very exciting life.
	That's one possibility, isn't it?
	Yeah, what was hinted at as being John Malkovich, for instance.
	That's right.
	Hold on, Doctor.
	We'll be right back to you, and we'll be taking calls to Dr. Terry Grossman, who is my guest.
	We'll tell you all about his books and how to get them as we come back in the night.
	I'm Art Bell, and this of course is Coast to Coast AM.
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	From coast to coast and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	And this is not science fiction.
	My guest, a well-credentialed physician, Dr. Terry Grossman, And he's telling us that we're on Bridge 1 right now.
	Right now, that means decades of extra life if you wanna... if you wanna go on the regimen.
	Bridge 2 is just ahead, and it's gonna mean a lot more life.
	And Bridge 3, well, 700-year-old human beings.
	700 years.
	hundred-year-old human beings seven hundred years
	eight hundred nine hundred thousand fifteen hundred years uh... it may only
	it may only depend on whether or not you have an accident
	We're going to certainly become a very polite, careful society, aren't we, under those conditions.
	more in a moment if life continued
	virtually and definitely which is what would be the case with level three as is
	being described this morning by Dr. Grossman that would bring on
	many changes as the MASH theme song would would reflect
	Remember that?
	Suicide brings on many changes.
	Well, so does living indefinitely.
	Many changes.
	And one of them would be overpopulation.
	We would have... Well, I can imagine a world, for example, Where a young mother, I guess they'd all be young, holding a baby would be regarded as a selfish, life-worth-sucking person who's just sucking the life out of the rest of the world because there are already too many people here.
	Can you imagine that, Doctor?
	No, I don't think so, Art.
	I don't think that's the way things will be, because what we're seeing In the first world economies, in the first world countries today, in many parts of the world like in Europe and in Japan, we've already achieved zero population growth and even negative population growth.
	So I think with increased technology and increased wealth, that won't be an issue.
	As technology spreads and people live longer, they actually tend to have smaller families.
	So I don't think that that'll be the case.
	Why do you think People are having smaller families, Dr. Harris.
	Some might say it's selfish.
	Well, you know, the motivation for large families in the undeveloped world really is twofold.
	Firstly, it relates to a lot of the loss of children early in life.
	And in fact, I've heard that in a lot of the undeveloped world, mothers don't bond that closely to their children.
	Until they reach about three or four years of age, because so many of them die before reaching that age.
	So, part of it is because so many children die, and another reason is, in the undeveloped world there is no social security, there's no safety net for people, should they be fortunate enough to live into old age, so they need a large number of children, at least a few that survive into adulthood, to take care of them.
	Those issues do not exist in the developed world, where there's very little Very few term pregnancies don't end in a healthy child, and we do have a safety net in terms of social security, so those preconditions don't exist.
	Well, still, wouldn't there have to be some sort of control implemented?
	I mean, good lord, if people were living to be 700 years old, the changes... well, of course, the social security system Well, goodbye.
	I mean, we're worried about it today.
	That would do the trick entirely.
	And I guess you would envision a world in which people were productive through 700 years, where they were working and building up gigantic bank accounts.
	Yeah, I think that, you know, things have to change from that point of view.
	You know, if we're talking about a life expectancy of 200 years, then, you know, retirement at 62 is not realistic anymore.
	We can't anticipate that.
	You know, other people are going to provide 138 years of social security for someone.
	So with these additional years of life, you know, come additional responsibilities, too.
	But I don't think that people will really need to work as much, because we need to take into account the fact that this longer lifespan isn't the only change that's going to take place.
	And, in fact, the same forces and the same technologies that allow for this radical extension of human life We'll bring, you know, tremendously positive additional benefits, and chief among those is the low cost of producing goods that nanotechnology will bring about.
	We haven't even begun to talk about what nanotechnology is, but nanotechnology just has the ability to drive down the price of goods and services to a negligible amount, and just one technological advance that's being discussed There is a nanotechnological solar panel that, if it were implemented, it's only a few molecules thick, very, very expensive, almost a spray-on type of device, that was able to convert solar energy into usable energy.
	And they've calculated that if we were able to harness 0.07% of the solar energy, we would be able to meet the entire
	energy needs of the world with a population of almost 10 billion by the year 2030.
	So, you know, this is the type of technology that we anticipate
	coming along at the same time. The nanotechnology that will allow us to live longer
	will also bring these engineering marvels. Are you aware of any studies, doctor, that have looked at the world's
	environment and the number of people in the world and concluded
	what would be a scientifically appropriate number of people for the planet to comfortably support?
	Yes, I have, but I find the same type of thinking applies to those projections as applies to, you know, what I've referred to again and again, which is they're not taking into account The fact that the new technologies will enable us to clean up the environment more effectively, that the new technologies will allow us to grow our foods without the use of so many pesticides, etc., so we won't be polluting as much.
	If we had these solar panels in place, we wouldn't be burning any more coal, we wouldn't be creating the pollution, we wouldn't be having cars that have these types of exhausts, so it wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem in the first place.
	Well, you're extremely optimistic Doctor, and you think that not only will science be able to make our butts, but it'll save our butts.
	Absolutely.
	That's the promise of nanotechnology.
	Unfortunately, it also has peril.
	And nothing can go wrong.
	Well, of course it can't.
	In fact, Eric Drexler, who was the originator of the term nanotechnology and first advocated these ideas in his book, Engines of Creation, Eric Drexler's chief concern has been harnessing this technology so that it is used for good, because it also has incredibly great destructive power.
	Gray goo, doctor.
	The gray goo theory, exactly, where the nanobots run amok and just digest the whole world into an unrecognizable mess.
	So we really need to put the safety valve in place simultaneously with this.
	Well, all right.
	I might as well extend this then into another question.
	Grey goo aside for a moment, we actually now have the ability to effectively eliminate our presence on the planet.
	Now, we could do that with a full-on nuclear exchange.
	There'd be no living things Left.
	So, really, it's a very good question to ask you.
	I mean, all these wonderful medical advances that you see coming in bridges ahead, and then wondering about whether, you know, as we make all these advances, equal dangers are going to come with each wonderful new advance.
	Equal, greater dangers.
	And we already have Well, you're right.
	we could eliminate ourselves.
	So do you think we'll actually get there safely?
	You're an optimist, so you probably do.
	Or do you think there's a great chance that we will torch ourselves?
	Well, you're right.
	I am an optimist.
	And I do think that we will survive this.
	But I also agree that we will need to be very, very cautious
	and make sure that these technologies have built-in safety valves
	so that they're not allowed to fall into the wrong hands.
	Or if they do fall into the wrong hands, that we will have effective antidotes.
	Do you think our hands are the right hands?
	That's a really good question.
	I mean, we did drop the bomb on Japan.
	Yes, we did.
	And I hope that this type of thinking has, you know, not only Has the other side learned, but I think more importantly, we have learned.
	You think so?
	I hope so.
	You can't be 100% certain, but I hope so.
	Well, when you look around the world today, and you look at this terrorism thing, and they're trying to get their hands on a nuke, and geez, some Mueller or something just gave Osama Bin Laden permission to use nukes religiously.
	It was okay to kill millions of Americans.
	It's a pretty dangerous world all in all out there right now.
	And looking at current world trends, conditions, and all of history, I wonder how you can be that optimistic?
	Well, so far, so good.
	I mean, if you look at human history, we haven't destroyed ourselves so far.
	Oh, true.
	And in each state, there's been an equal measure of chance of destruction, and it hasn't happened to date.
	So, just looking at the historical model, you know, there's no reason to expect that all of a sudden that, you know, things are going to end catastrophically.
	There is a chance, and there's always been that chance.
	But as we advance, the darker side of these advances in technology become, almost all of them, if the wrong thing is done, total global mistakes.
	You know, erasure of the human race by some horrible strain, a newly invented and released strain of something.
	The world, Doctor, has also recently shown it's got no shortage of people willing to give their lives To take as many lives as they can when they go.
	You're absolutely right, but I think that in equal measure we'll develop the means to combat those terrors.
	So to that degree, the technology that allows the destruction to occur also allows the protection against that destruction to occur.
	I hope you're right.
	All right.
	We have a lot of people waiting on the line who would very much like to talk to you, so let's try a little bit of that, huh?
	Oh, great.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Dr. Terry Grossman.
	Hi.
	Hello, Art.
	Chris, I must tell you that it's a joy to have you back on the air.
	Thank you.
	My name is Bianca.
	I'm from New Jersey.
	Okay.
	Dr. Christman, about 35 years ago, I went to a clinic in Switzerland because I had a
	serious liver problem and I was on the verge of diabetes.
	I was given injections of embryonic cells from lambs, unborn lambs, and since that time,
	which is over 30 years ago, I have not had any problem.
	I was wondering...
	Oh, that's amazing.
	First time.
	I was wondering if you're familiar with that therapy and if it exists in the United States
	today.
	Why not, because it would seem to me that taking those cells from a lamb would avoid
	a lot of the moral issues.
	Before you answer, doctor, ma'am, I've really got a couple questions if you wouldn't mind.
	I'm really curious about what you've just said.
	What was your diagnosis when you went to Switzerland?
	Well, I had, as I say, some liver problems, and I was on the verge of diabetes, and I'm also totally blind, and they gave me some cells from eyes, but that didn't work.
	But the rest of my system went back to normal, and I've been healthy.
	Right now I'm 67, and I have other problems, and I was just wondering whether this therapy might be available in this country now.
	Okay, have you heard what this lady did, Doctor?
	Yes, I have, and I believe what it's referred to is called live cell therapy, and it does involve the injection of, it's not embryonic stem cells, but it's actually fetal cells from lamb fetuses.
	Yes.
	Yeah, and this live cell therapy is Done at some of the health spas in Switzerland, and I know people have gone over for these therapies and reported good results.
	There are no such spas like that, to my knowledge, in the United States, but I have been to medical conferences where these live cell injections are for sale.
	I have not utilized them, and I don't know any doctors that do utilize them, but I know that they are available in the United States.
	Well, it's still amazing, absolutely amazing, and you attribute your cure to that, man.
	Absolutely, there was nothing else.
	They were, at that time, extremely expensive.
	The doctor said they were for sale.
	They were $1,000 an injection.
	I think the price has come down somewhat since then.
	Ma'am, I don't know how to thank you enough for calling.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	Right, take care.
	Really good call.
	Wow!
	So, there's some... Why is it, doctor, and is it wrong that other countries, like in this case, for example, Switzerland, where she went, Um, where it's legal to do things like that.
	I mean, are we overly cautious in the United States?
	Way too cautious?
	Should we be approving some of these things that otherwise people have to do if she didn't go to another continent to get?
	Well, there's a double-edged sword in the United States with the recent Vioxx scandal.
	We're seeing that it's very, very difficult.
	You know, on the one hand, we want to have access to Well, the question was, are we too cautious?
	as soon as possible.
	But on the other hand, we don't get the evidence that they're safe, sometimes for several years
	afterwards, and then this leads to massive lawsuits.
	So it really is a difficult quandary that both the drug development companies find themselves
	in and we as patients find ourselves in, that we want these therapies, but we want them
	to be safe.
	Well, the question was, are we too cautious?
	I think that we're about properly cautious.
	Given the fact that there are risks to some of these medications, I think about the right
	degree of caution is being exercised.
	If a physician was on national radio or television and asked that question, would any physician be poorly advised to answer, oh, we're way too cautious?
	I mean, would that be not good for a career?
	No, I don't think so.
	I think there'd be many of my colleagues that would feel that we are being too cautious, that we should speed drugs up.
	And from that point of view, the more serious the disease, the less caution we should have, let's say.
	So for instance, if there were a drug that was developed For a currently incurable disease.
	So say for instance, like ALS, which currently doesn't really have anything that has much value.
	If someone came up with a drug company, came up with a drug that really seemed to help it, I think it should be allowed through the pipeline more quickly because there's nothing else that's available and disease is so difficult to treat.
	But if we're talking about something that affects She said that injection, or the injections, cost her $1,000.
	like aches and pains and arthritis, then that drug needs to have a much higher margin of safety
	in order to be applied to so many more people when there are other safer drugs available.
	So I think we actually need to take it on an individual drug basis.
	She said that injection or the injections cost her a thousand dollars and you agreed and said
	well maybe it's cheaper now. Yeah I think I've actually seen these for sale.
	Right, but can't we assume, Doctor, that if a real bullet comes along, a real magic bullet for whatever, oh my God, not only is it going to be not available here for quite a while, but those who travel elsewhere to get it are going to be paying incredible prices because, well heck, that's the way the market works.
	Yeah, the law of supply and demand probably will take place.
	If there were such a magic bullet, it probably would initially be expensive, but it's in the nature of technology for things to become less and less expensive.
	Absolutely, but some of these third bridge type, what we think of as magic and miracles right now, the latest is always going to be expensive, so there will be this sort of rich and poor delta The rich can live much longer than the poor.
	Isn't that likely?
	With nanotechnology, I think the price of goods and services will become inexpensive for everyone.
	And that's really the wonderful part of nanotechnology, is it will be possible to create our clothing and our food for a fraction of its current price, so that the basic needs of everyone, not just the United States but around the world, will be able to be met.
	Really, it'll be affordable.
	So, ultimately affordable for everybody, but certainly in the beginning.
	In the beginning stages, it's probably likely that these cutting-edge therapies will be more expensive and only available to a few people that can afford them.
	Well, I mean, how do you put a price on a hundred years?
	If you can get another hundred years of life, why, the people are going to find the money from somewhere, aren't they?
	You can almost assume that would be the biggest business in the world keeping people alive longer, wouldn't it?
	Absolutely.
	For a while.
	Biggest business in the world.
	More billions than the car companies and more billions than everything you can think of.
	Because what would somebody pay for a year, five years, ten years, a hundred years?
	How much would you pay for a hundred years?
	There's the answer you give right now and then there's the honest answer when you get to be 99, right?
	Well I think it's time to get ready to realize just what I have found
	I have been on the path of my ends, it's all clear to me now
	You get a shiver in the dark, it's raining in the park, the meantime
	I love the weather, you're stubborn, you're holding everything
	A band is blowing Dixie, double ball time, you feel alright when you hear the music ring
	Well now you step inside the trap You don't see too many faces Coming in out of the rain to hear the jazz go down Competition in all the places But the horns keep blowing that sound Way on down south
	To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
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	Indeed, I've asked him, I think, pretty hard questions and received some very straightforward answers from Dr. Terry Grossman.
	He's a longevity expert.
	Bridge one, we're on that.
	Now, bridge two and bridge three lay ahead.
	When we get there, human beings may well live to be as long as they want to live.
	Virtual immortality.
	And of course, by then, many things may be discovered.
	To imagine all of this is right in front of us, not as science fiction, but as science fact, is as incredible as any space alien adventure you could think of.
	I mean, it really is.
	In the real world, here it is, right in front of us.
	The implications of it are staggering and amazing, and I wonder how it will change Human thought about almost everything.
	The answer is it will change thought about almost everything, right?
	Time!
	There may be one area where Dr. Grossman is just simply too much.
	Too optimistic from my point of view, or maybe I, you know, I just can't see it.
	But he seems to lay out this rosy future where life extension will be plentiful and cheap and life support will be easy, sort of like this, you know, the Star Trek thing where you order up a meal and it just appears, that kind of thing, and where nanotechnology manufactures things for us on request and Everybody has the latest three-dimensional television or whatever because they're turned out, you know, sort of an idyllic world.
	But Chuck from El Paso, Texas fast blasted me this, Doctor.
	He says, Art, do you really believe drug companies today would release developed cures for illnesses and cut away their profits from drugs?
	They just treat the symptoms now anyway, and they make lots of money.
	Well, you know what?
	I could answer that for you, doctor.
	The answer is, well, no.
	I think the drug companies would switch to charging so much for the stuff you're talking about that they wouldn't need to worry about the rest of the disease and all that.
	They'd be making just untold profits.
	They might even be the profit center of the entire world.
	So I'm not as optimistic as you, doctor, that it'll all somehow be plentiful and free to the masses.
	I don't doubt where you're going with the technology, but I think, you know, the rich will get it and the poor probably won't.
	Well, that may be the case initially, but I think ultimately the price will come down.
	And I think that drug companies, if there are some, and I know they are working on these type of products, they will make them available as soon as they can.
	I think they will charge some money for them.
	Well, you're a doctor now, right?
	I mean, you know how drug companies work.
	Absolutely.
	You better than most, in fact.
	So, I'm sure they would look at that as profit center, wouldn't you think?
	Absolutely.
	I mean, the disease of aging is, you know, it's a universal disease.
	It's suffered by everyone that has ever lived.
	It's 100% fatal, so... Is that the class you really would put it in?
	The disease of aging?
	Yes.
	In both of the books that I wrote, The Baby Boomer's Guide to Living Forever, I initially espoused this theory that aging can be regarded as a disease, and then followed up with it in our latest book that I wrote with Ray Kurzweil, Fantastic Voyage, Live Long Enough to Live Forever.
	We have quite a bit of information about these, if I can mention the website.
	Fantastic-voyage.net.
	Say that again, please.
	Fantastic-voyage.net.
	We have actually a lot of excerpts from the book on that site, and a lot of the topics, the Bridge 1, Bridge 2, Bridge 3, All right.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Dr. Terry Grossman.
	Hi.
	Hi, Terry.
	How are you?
	Hi, Art.
	Hi.
	Terry's my doctor, Art.
	Oh, come on.
	Really?
	He told him I was going to get through.
	Really?
	alright uh... wildcard liner on the air with uh... dr terry grossman
	archery are you higher there's my doctor art
	pop-up all come on really told him i was going to get through
	really yeah i did
	alright on friday We were in there for treatment.
	I go in once a week.
	Wait a moment, sir.
	You go to the doctor for anti-aging?
	Did I choose him?
	I got in the study.
	No, no, no.
	My question was, you go to him for anti-aging therapy?
	Yes, I do in a way.
	I had a heart attack a while back and I found out about some of the products and services that he has and I took up He took up a program that's called a TAC program.
	He's involved in that pretty heavily.
	It's an assessment of chelation therapy.
	It's really helped me.
	I'm 60 years old.
	I'm doing things that I probably I'm 45 now, as far as some of the capabilities that I'm doing.
	Now, I could be getting a placebo, but I don't think I am.
	What he's referring to, Art, is he's a member of the federally funded TACT trial, T-A-C-T, the trial to assess chelation therapy.
	We're one of the clinical investigating centers.
	First of all, Collar, thank you.
	in this double-blind, placebo-controlled study of chelation therapy.
	He's one of the patients, so he needs to do the double-blind study.
	Neither he as patient nor I as physician knows what he's getting.
	First of all, Caller, thank you.
	So you perceive it's working out really well for you, right?
	Outstanding.
	You're telling me you don't think you're getting the placebo.
	No, I'm not.
	I got a call from Duke University the other day.
	Maybe you better not say this.
	No, that's fine, because they asked me.
	They asked me, do you think that you're receiving the placebo?
	Yes.
	And I said, no.
	Just because of the side effects.
	Because I'm not stupid.
	I got on the internet and looked up some of the side effects.
	But to be clear, they didn't tell you, right?
	They didn't tell you what you were on, right?
	No, no, and they will not.
	And this is one of the bones that I have with the program.
	Well, no, but hey, listen, I can answer that one.
	It has to be, I understand from your point of view, it would be a severe bone.
	However, for the study to mean anything, they've got to have the placebo part of it.
	Right, Doctor?
	Absolutely.
	I don't think that the people he spoke to even knew.
	I think it's very, very blinded and all that they have is, you know, he's down as a number And nobody knows what that number corresponds to.
	It's a randomized trial.
	I don't think the people he spoke to even knows what it is.
	Alright, let me take a side trip very quickly and ask you about the placebo effect.
	Now, I know the way you think about certain things, so this should be an interesting area to interrogate you in.
	How strong is the placebo effect?
	How strong would it be for somebody like the man who just called To be told by a doctor like yourself that you're giving him the very latest in whatever, and by God, it's going to cure.
	You're sure it's going to cure what he has, but they're sugar pills.
	How big an effect is that?
	In other words, his own brain would begin to turn and think that it's going to be cured, and so in fact it would happen.
	How strong is that?
	It's a very powerful effect, but there are caveats about the placebo effect, and the most important caveat is They don't last forever.
	And that's how you usually can tell if someone, and how the patient can tell they're getting a placebo, is the effect, the patient wants to get better, the doctor says you're going to get better, so this placebo effect takes hold, the patient feels better, has improvement, but it doesn't last forever.
	After a period of weeks, or a few months at most, The disease rears its head again, and they can't fool themselves any longer.
	So there is a placebo effect, but it's not a permanent effect, except in very rare cases where people will be cured by a placebo for a chronic illness.
	Wow.
	But this is well known.
	There are studies.
	This is not just opinion.
	The shorter version of it, though, the short-term version of it is quite amazing and impressive, isn't it?
	Yes, it is.
	The human mind can really play an important role in the healing process.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Terry Grossman.
	Hi.
	Yes, Lord.
	Hello.
	This is Keith in Hamilton, Ontario.
	My grandfather passed away years ago at the age of 78.
	He was a fairly heavy drinker and smoked about two packs a day.
	Tests showed his heart was fine, so was his liver and lungs.
	What's weird is he gained Alzheimer's and died of a stroke.
	My two questions How is it that certain people like him do this while others die from this exact same manner in very early years?
	And also, could this technology you're talking about allow us to abide in our guilty pleasures such as these with less consequences to our health?
	Boy, we'll get a lecture on that one, I'm sure.
	But you know what?
	The first part of his question, Doctor, is superb, and that is We all hear about the evils of smoking, and how many smoking-related deaths there are a year, and all the rest of it.
	And yet, there are a significant number of people who smoke all their lives, and then don't die of anything at all, smoking-related.
	And that, of course, is largely unpublished information, because it's, you know, not very politically correct.
	And so, how much does genetics, you know, how big a deal is genetics in this area?
	Well, I talked in the Fantastic Voyage book, we have a chapter on genomics therapy, and I tell an anecdote about the 104-year-old grandmother who attributes her perfect health and longevity to smoking two packs a day and having a jelly donut for breakfast.
	So, in that case, it clearly doesn't relate to her lifestyle at all, and in fact relates to her incredibly wonderful genetic structure.
	So, the gentleman's father I believe father, grandfather, who lived to be 78, despite all these adverse lifestyle choices, clearly began life with extremely good genes.
	And if he hadn't drunk so heavily and smoked so much, then I doubt that he would have died at 78, and he'd probably still be going strong, you know, for many years beyond that.
	And that also explains the counterside, why someone else, who has other genes, We'll have those, make those lifestyle choices, and then suffer a heart attack at a much younger age.
	Yes.
	Or develop cirrhosis of the liver, etc.
	Yes, we hear about it.
	People eat fruits and nuts.
	They drop dead.
	Sometimes.
	And the last part of his question was about the pleasures and vices of life that he spoke of.
	Might you not make it possible for people to do these I think that's the beauty of the Bridge 3 nanomedicine, nanotechnology, is that it will enable us.
	Right now, in Bridge 1, we really need to follow the straight and narrow.
	We need to follow a diet, we need to, you know, really avoid, give up some of these pleasures in order to perhaps enjoy better health.
	But I think in the future, eating won't be necessary as a means of sustenance. The nanobots will take care of that. And eating
	will be done strictly for pleasure.
	So we'll be able to eat what we want and drink what we want, and I don't think we'll suffer the
	consequences. But, you know, that's still a few decades away. For now, we need to make the proper
	lifestyle choices. Okay.
	Okay, Pope.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Grossman.
	Turn your radio off, please.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Yes, I had a question also about smoking.
	Okay.
	I've been trying to sort of patch together my own version of a longevity program now for some time, but I feel that I'm subverting my efforts with the cigarettes, and I've been trying for two years to quit smoking.
	So at this point what I'd really like to do is better understand the physiology of nicotine addiction and I've gotten two explanations.
	One being that what happens with a nicotine addiction is that the nicotine molecule binds to the acetylcholine receptors on the cell inducing the cell to produce more receptors and then when the nicotine is withdrawn the cell is flooded with acetylcholine causing The withdrawal symptoms.
	The other explanation I've gotten is that for some reason or other that I don't understand dopamine levels go down when nicotine is withdrawn.
	And so what I was thinking was if I could determine if what the actual mechanics are that are involved in the withdrawals that I have when I try to quit smoking, maybe I could find a supplement That would either maybe block acetylcholine, boost dopamine, something like that.
	And I'm wondering if the doctor has any advice for me.
	Could this really be true?
	I saw all these chief executive officers of tobacco companies sit right in front of Congress and say, why, there's no addictive... Anyway, forget that.
	Doctor, can you address her question?
	Yeah, the neurotransmitters involved in addiction chiefly involve the dopamine receptors.
	And some people have a certain genetic variant of dopamine, and it makes it very, very difficult for them to quit certain addictive behaviors, like smoking, and by replenishing the precursors to dopamine, they can sometimes find it much easier to no longer engage in something as unhealthy as smoking.
	Does that mean there's a shot for it?
	What kind of supplements?
	Actually, it's a long list of vitamins and minerals.
	We have a cocktail that we recommend for people, and if you would go to my website, fmiclinic.com.
	It's on there?
	You can just send me an email, info at fmiclinic.com, and I will get back with her.
	Assuming that you were on this regimen.
	What are you saying?
	That it might well make it unattractive for you or not a pleasure for you to smoke?
	Or what would it do?
	No, it's not an anti-abuse for cigarettes like anti-abuses for alcohol.
	What it would do is make it so that the craving that she has for nicotine would not be as intense.
	So it would make it more an easier process.
	To what degree could it actually affect that?
	I think it's significant.
	I find that the majority of patients As a conventional doctor, before I started to do longevity medicine and the type of medicine I've been practicing for the past 10 years in my clinic, my success rate in helping patients quit smoking was much lower.
	And it's increased dramatically.
	And it's well over 50% now, maybe even 75%.
	So I think that it is very, very helpful.
	And the majority of patients can quit smoking successfully.
	So it actually removes the desire?
	Remove the desire so that the chemicals in the brain that require this repeat stimulation of the dopamine receptors, which create the addiction, they no longer need the nicotine in order to... Does it have any other side effects with respect to the person's ability to enjoy anything pleasurable?
	Oh no, not at all.
	It doesn't reduce the ability to enjoy pleasure.
	It just reduces the need for this excessive dopamine stimulation.
	Okay.
	Very quickly, first time caller on the line.
	You're on the air with Dr. Grossman.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Thank you for taking my call.
	You're very welcome.
	I have a question.
	I was diagnosed with migraine headaches at the beginning.
	It wasn't that they diagnosed me with pseudotumor cerebri.
	What I really had was an AV malformation that led to aneurysm.
	So I went like this for about a little over a year.
	Now, it affected my optical nerve.
	With this stem cell, is there something where they would do like an injection to the optical nerve to help it regrow, so I might be able to get my eyesight back?
	I think the answer to that is going to be a yes, and we're almost out of time.
	Doctor?
	Well, ultimately yes, but at this stage of our current technology, I'm not sure without seeing more of the exact medical history and what precise pathology exists.
	Mm-hmm.
	But if a person wants to indulge that sort of thing now, they've got to go to Switzerland or some other country where they're doing that sort of thing?
	Right.
	Those really are not widely available, if at all, in the United States.
	You know, it's amazing to me that they are elsewhere.
	Anyway, your books, Baby Boomer's Guide to Living Forever, Fantastic Voyage, The Science Behind Radical Life Extension, both I would take it available on, oh, Amazon.com, hopefully.
	Amazon.com, all the bookstores.
	Fantastic Voyage was just released in the last few weeks and has actually been selling very well, so we've been very happy with it.
	It's at all the bookstores and at Amazon.com, and also our website, which gives people a preview, the fantastic-voyage.net website.
	And if I might, let me give an 800 number that people can call.
	Very quickly, Doctor.
	Okay, my clinic number, 877.
	5-4-8-4-3-8-7.
	One more time.
	8-7-7-5-4-8-4-3-8-7.
	Doctor, have a good night, and thank you for being on the program.
	It's been my sincere pleasure, Art.
	Thanks so much.
	Good night.
	First time caller line, you are on the air.
	As it passed overhead, the stars and the full moon of time went away.
	This is gonna be something, something, something.
	Good night, everybody.
	Ten after midnight, under starry satellite skies.
	A light wig taking in the cover of talk.
	Can't stop, did I hear that right?
	Live conversations, beamed out to us all in the dark.
	Real life phone line, all their experts, warning the world things are falling apart.

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