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May 9, 2004 - Art Bell
02:52:17
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Budd Hopkins - Abduction Enigmas
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From the high desert and the great American Southwest.
I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon.
As the case may be in your time zone.
Prolific as they are around the world and all covered by this program.
Coast to Coast AM, I'm Art Bell.
Honored to be sharing my Sunday going into Monday with you.
And it's going to be quite a Monday for us here in the desert.
I'll tell you about that in a moment.
On my webcam this night, while many people think you can't grow stuff in the desert, Let me show you my wife's garden.
We grow, well she grows, artichokes.
And oh, can she grow artichokes.
That was taken, that photograph was taken late this afternoon in Ramona's artichoke patch.
Boy, are those good.
Really good.
Well, having tuned in shortwave radio, um, a little, uh, early impact minutes ago, really, uh, the static levels on shortwave tonight are absolutely incredible.
Just incredible.
They're awful.
And I looked at the, uh, lightning map and sure as heck, uh, I, I thought, I, I heard that static, so I thought somebody's really getting We're getting rolled over by hell right now, and sure enough, they are.
In fact, here's Rick in Winona, Minnesota, who said, hey Art, we just went through a thunderstorm, the likes of which I've never seen in my 53 years.
There was lightning at 2 to 5 times a second peals of thunder that were constant for 50 minutes, with torrential rains the whole time.
Never seen anything like that before.
Well, there's going to be more and more of that, I am afraid.
Bigger storms and certainly this spring we have seen supercells.
Just incredible supercells in cycles of days over the central U.S.
Okay, the world news.
Tonight I've got a little time to spend with you and I guess I need to say something about this finally, huh?
Baghdad, stung by a worldwide outcry, the U.S.
military on Sunday announced the first court-martial In the prisoner abuse allegations, ordering a reservist to face a public trial in Baghdad.
That'll be May 19th.
Specialist Jeremy Sivitz of Heinemann, Pennsylvania, a member of the 372nd Military Police Company, is going to face military court less than a month after photos of prisoners being abused and humiliated were first broadcast April 28th.
And this from London.
Prime Minister Tony Blair apologized sunday for any abuses that might have been committed by british soldiers in iraq said those responsible would be punished as the government acknowledged it had known for months about claims that it's troops abused iraqi prisoners lawmakers called for the publication of an international committee of the red cross report detailing many of those allegations human rights groups amnesty international
Said it told British officials about reports of violence and torture a year ago.
And the big promise now is, after the President has had the worst week of his presidency, there's more to come.
And it's not going to be what we've seen so far.
It's going to be far worse, is the rumor.
Now, of course, if it becomes far worse, then it becomes something else again, doesn't it?
You know, for those of you that go back with me long enough, you know I was very much one of the lone voices against the war before we went to Iraq.
I didn't see the entrance strategy and I don't see the exit strategy and I didn't then and I don't now.
I questioned the whole weapons of mass destruction thing then, as I do now.
However, I am nothing if not a practical, realistic, cynical kind of guy.
And the fact of the matter is we are now there.
And we are fighting for our lives.
Whether you agree with the fact that we ought to be there or not, the fact is that we are there and we are fighting for our lives.
And losing many of them, young men and women, Ours.
And I, you know, this whole thing that's blown up.
It seems to me there's incompetence involved here.
And I really mean incompetence.
I mean, what in the hell were cameras doing inside a prison in the first place?
I was in the military and the Air Force, and what the hell would they have cameras for?
And if they did have cameras, then how could the military police And heavens knows our intelligence agencies, with whatever presence they have there, and they do have presence there, after all.
CIA, NSA, just all kinds of people are there, I'm sure.
FBI's probably there, everybody.
All the agencies are there, I'm sure.
How would they let these pictures get out?
What kind of incompetent behavior is that?
Now, that's not to say that... I'll tell you something interesting.
We have a radio station here in Pahrump, as you know, or maybe you don't, but Ramona and I own one here.
It's KNYEFM in Pahrump, and we do a talk show every week, or every other week, and the question we asked on this last one was, when, if ever, do you believe that torture is justified?
And the answer is, through 30 or 40 calls, whatever we took in a couple hours, was quite remarkable.
A good 90% of those responding thought that it was justified, frankly.
It was justified.
You know, what we have seen thus far, now there may be much worse to come, I don't know, but photographs of prisoners chained, you know, to the bars or to their bed or women's panties over their head or whatever.
I really don't know what the methods of softening people up and extracting information from them would be, but you know, frankly, Information saves lives, and if they were able to obtain information from those prisoners that would save American lives, then probably in the hardcore real world there are some things that are justified in doing.
These people are trying to kill us!
Dead, dead, dead.
Kill us dead.
So, you know, incompetent, just incompetent.
They even let cameras in prisons to let these kinds of photographs get out.
Incompetent all the way around.
Somebody needs to tighten something up out there.
will be uh... right back as far as iraq goes uh... we're there now
We've got to figure out a way to win.
No more ducking with our tails between our legs and heading home.
We're there now.
And can't walk away.
So we've got to figure out how to win.
That's what we have to do.
My wife just handed me this.
Such a hot potato.
This one is, Scientists Warm to Climate Flick Despite Bad Science.
Well, their opinion, bad science maybe.
Maybe bad science to have to cram it in to a two-hour movie, but I mean, that's, you know, that's what you gotta do, right?
It's the day after tomorrow.
Once again, another story from Los Angeles Associated Press.
A super storm envelops the globe, sending tornadoes skittering through Los Angeles, pounding Tokyo with hail the size of grapefruits and burying New Delhi in snow.
Yes, well, doesn't look too good for Europe either.
You know, I told you, you mark my words on this, you mark my words.
If you saw 10.5, that's a literal picnic in the Sunday Park compared to what's going to be in the day after tomorrow.
Last night, this broke during the show.
A lot of things have a habit of breaking during the show.
Headline, Ocean Temp Change Led to Dust Bowl.
The conclusion of scientists now after More than 70 years of looking at, you know, what happened in the middle of our country by NASA is that ocean temperatures changed just a few degrees and produced that dust bowl in the middle of the United States that destroyed so many lives.
Just a very few degrees, a very tiny change in ocean temperatures, they have now figured out, led to the dust bowl.
And eventually they're going to figure out a lot more.
Still no news or confirmation or denial of a radio signal on 1420 megahertz.
No return call this day from SETI, but I suppose they'll be up there to look.
Anyway, look, what we're going to do is open lines, so if you've got something... Oh, Larry King, and this was during the program last night too, has received the The honorarium, known as the Snuffed Candle Award.
The Snuffed Candle Award is my idea of a real honor, so congratulations, Larry.
It's given for encouraging credulity, presenting pseudoscience as genuine, and contributing to the public's lack of understanding of the methods of scientific inquiry.
I received one, too.
When did I get mine?
It was way back on, uh, well, let me see, November 13th, 1998, and I have it proudly still on the wall where I told you I would put it.
It's, uh, actually quite nice.
Snuffed Candle Award.
When you win that, you know, uh, you know people are listening, and, uh, when that group of, uh, stuffed skeptics gives it out, You know you've made the big time.
Wildcard Line, you are on the air.
Good evening.
Good evening.
How are you?
I'm quite well, sir.
And yourself?
Fine, thank you.
I'm calling Art David.
How are you?
Los Angeles, KFI.
Yes.
Am I on the air?
If you're not, we're in trouble, the both of us.
Okay.
During December, you mentioned about the harp is shooting full power.
They were headed toward full power, yes.
There was an article about that, yes.
And then during that time, I'm from Iran and I'm an American citizen now, during that time we hear the earthquake in Bam.
You remember that, right?
I remember an earthquake, yes.
Are you trying to connect them?
Later on, excuse me, later on I came across the article in on the internet, which talks about, I'm not relating it to HAARP, but this article, it is relating it, that there is a device that creates earthquakes, which is related to HAARP.
Well, maybe there was something Maybe it was an article related to some very early work done by Tesla or something like that.
He claimed the ability, I think, at one point to create earthquakes.
Exactly, yeah.
It does relate to Tesla, too.
Also, Kobe earthquake was not a Well, that'll hold it there.
You know, to start to move from, well, maybe Tesla was on to something about earthquakes, to the Kobe quake wasn't natural, this quake, that quake wasn't natural, we don't know that.
We certainly don't know that.
And my guess is that it was natural.
And my guess is also that we can no more create than we can stop earthquakes, despite the rosy outcome of 10.5.
I don't think we have any control at all over the move of moving of plates, large plates that are below us, that we walk tenderly upon the surface of.
No, I don't think we can control those at all.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Good morning.
I'm not going to say my name.
Why not?
Well, because you're not going to like what I'm going to have to say.
Well, so?
Okay.
All right.
My name's Bruce.
Bruce!
Yes, Bruce.
Yeah.
You've heard the expression, throwing good money after bad.
Yeah, I've heard that.
Yeah, you're doing a lot of throwing a lot of money after bad money in Iraq.
And I am so glad those pictures came out.
Are you?
Yeah, because now everybody can see.
That the United States is just as much of a badass as any other country out there in the world.
No, we're not as much of a badass.
We're a badass.
I agree with you.
And to think that we don't do things that other nations do in war is wrong because we do do them, sir.
But are we as much of a badass?
No.
We're not as big a badass as Saddam was, not by a long shot.
Yeah, we have a lot more power than Saddam ever had.
Do you think you would have seen a scandal?
I mean, in all the years, my friend, that Saddam tortured people, how many newspapers and magazines and press or broadcast of any kind whatsoever covered one minute of it?
Well, certainly not very many in the United States.
And what would your answer be to that?
Certainly not very many publications or news outlets covered it in the United States because they didn't want to... Baloney!
It's being covered all over the United States.
What's happening?
What, during the Reagan era?
When you were only too happy to... What is the matter with you?
Stick with the Bush era.
We're talking about this problem right now.
Yes, but it needs a historical context now, doesn't it?
No, it doesn't need anything going back to the Reagan administration.
No, you need to go back.
No, I don't.
You can go back there, but you do it by yourself.
You want to talk about this?
Let's talk about it.
Look, we're badasses here.
I wouldn't pretend any different, but we're not as bad.
We're not the Hitler of the world.
We're not the Saddam Hussein of the world.
The United States is a cut above.
That's why you're seeing this scandal unfold right now.
Because we are cut above.
It couldn't unfold anywhere else.
You couldn't have this scandal unfolding anywhere else.
It'd simply be a bunch of dead people, that's all.
There wouldn't be any story.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air, hello.
Hello.
Going once, going twice, gone.
First time caller line, you're on the air, hello.
Hi Art, this is Ron in Memphis.
I'm listening to you on 600 REC.
Yes sir.
I served in the Army for about three years.
Most of it was spent in Germany, over in Mannheim and Heidelberg.
Yes.
And, you know, we were given these pamphlets on how to, if the situation ever occurred, how to treat prisoners if, at that time, if war ever broke out.
Right.
And according to those rules, you had to treat the prisoners with at least humane conditions.
Yes.
And that goes as far as the Geneva Conventions are concerned and the Red Cross.
I'm sure it was more or less written as a result of the Geneva Convention Accords.
And I have no idea who on the ground level there was responsible for that.
That's the craziest thing I've ever seen.
There's incompetence across the board that this would have happened, period.
And, you know, I'm starting to wonder now, you know, here we are trying to keep from what happened with Saddam's regime, and it looks like the same thing happening on camera.
You know, you would think that they would treat prison a little better than that, and I understand, I guess, there's some more photos coming out or already out.
That's what they're saying.
Good Lord, it just gives a black eye to the military.
The whole country.
But understand clearly what I'm saying.
I'm saying that the real tragedy so far, with what I've seen, is that these pictures got out at all.
The incompetence displayed is incredible.
You've got the CIA and everybody else in the world over there, you've got military police everywhere, and how in the hell could they let people take posed photographs like that?
That is just crazy, and I would think that the Arab world, I can understand their frustrations.
They always say in the military, it's that one or two percent that square everything up for everybody.
Hopefully this can be rectified later on.
I guess somebody at the White House will have to do something, and I don't know what at this point, but I don't know.
Well, I heard that the President wasn't going to give them money.
I went, oh my God, he's going to compensate them?
That's just... I don't know how that's going to work.
The logical thing would be to be, I guess, more tolerant of some of their lifestyles, I guess.
I'm not sure.
This is... You know, because when I was stationed in Germany, this was before the wall came down about four months, and we had checked.
There were people that were coming over from the border.
We had to treat them, give them C-sections.
Had to treat them well.
The German government treated them well.
These people were just coming across from a socialist country, driving across the border in trabbies with all their belongings.
We had to treat them like any other human being, if not better.
I just don't know what's going to happen with that.
It's going to spiral out of control eventually.
You know, the whole thing has the potential to spiral out of control in more ways than one.
How we've arrived at where we are today, I don't know.
That's just, there's, I don't know, it just seems like a widening gap.
If somebody doesn't put a stop to something somewhere, or at least, that's just a messy situation, hopefully it'll be corrected by, and I know this is an election year, Somebody in that Bush White House needs to figure out something, how to get out of it.
That's the toughest thing besides trying to win that war.
the war from
high desert in the middle of the night on the eve of fifty mile an hour winds that are forecast to
streak their way across the area where I live later today tomorrow our time
What?
This is Coast to Coast AM.
Absolutely not.
Listen to me.
I want war.
I despise.
Constant misdestruction of innocent lives.
War means tens, ten thousands of mothers' lives.
When their sons go off to fight and lose their heads.
I said war.
Good God, y'all.
My mind had fallen to the golden deep surrender.
Oh yeah.
And I had left my duty in quite a similar way.
When history broke on the ship.
This all was repeating itself.
Why you?
I was defeated.
You won the war.
I was defeated.
Waterloo.
Promise to love me forevermore.
Waterloo.
Couldn't escape if I wanted to.
Waterloo.
Knowing my fate is to meet you.
Oh, oh, oh, oh.
Waterloo.
Finally facing my war.
Waterloo.
I tried to hold you back but you were stronger.
To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
line is area code 775-727-1222. To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free
at 800-825-5033. From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
International callers may recharge by calling your in-country Sprint Access number,
pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-8253.
From coast to coast, and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM, with Art Bell.
Hope you paid attention to the numbers, because they're slightly different on the weekend.
And don't forget, if you want to get a hold of me by email, you can.
I'm Art Bell at MindSpring.com.
Pretty cool.
We're going to be talking to Bud Hopkins.
Bud is probably The world's acknowledged expert on abductions.
He's written and interviewed extensively about abductions.
So if you've ever been curious about abductions, whether you think they're real or a bunch of claptrap, then you're going to want to be listening here toward the top of the hour.
In the meantime, wide open lines.
International line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hi, Eric.
Hi there.
What is your first name?
My name's Sheila.
I'm calling from London, Ontario, listening to CJBK.
Yes, ma'am.
1490.
We get eight hours of coast-to-coast, seven days a week.
Boy, that's a big diet.
Oh, boy, and I enjoy every minute of it.
I'm an insomniac.
I wanted to comment about the atrocity that's going on in Iraq.
Like you, I did not support going in there, nor do I support the idea yet But we're there, and let's be pragmatic about it.
I mean, there are also Canadian men and women there that are dying, although they're, quite frankly, poorly equipped and low in number, thanks to our government.
But they're there, and we care about them, and I think that whoever published this It's guilty of treason, quite frankly, because any prisoners of war... No, no, no, they're not.
They're not guilty.
Look, in America and in Canada, to perhaps a slightly less degree, we have a free press.
Oh, actually, our press is freer, to be honest.
All right, well, so, okay, you think it's freer.
Whatever.
It's the press's duty to do this kind of thing.
If this is put in the hands of the press, they're gone a published period.
It's not treasonous.
They're doing their job.
That's true, and that's an emotional response on my part, but I'm concerned about the prisoners of war in the Allied Forces who are really going to be facing some awful events Yeah.
As a result of this.
Totally.
There could totally be that kind of repercussion.
Like a backlash.
And so our prisoners could suddenly face God knows what.
I mean, yeah, this whole thing, it should never have gotten out.
No.
It should never have gone on.
It should never have gotten out.
It just shouldn't be happening, period.
No, it shouldn't.
And I just wanted to let you know that you have a supporter here in Canada, and I just I agree with you, and I think the whole thing is just a real shame, and I really feel for the families that are involved.
We need to figure out how to get out of their lawn now.
Yeah, no kidding, eh?
Right.
Thank you.
You have a good night, and hi to Ramona.
Okay, take care.
Check out her large garden.
It really is an amazing garden.
We're due for 50 mile an hour winds here in the desert.
Screeching through the sky.
My wife came in a little while ago and said, what do you mean screeching through the sky?
Well, 50 mile an hour winds screech through the sky.
We're getting some pretty wild weather.
And that's what's in the forecast for later today.
So if you're in this part of the high desert, Lush, everything down.
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Hi.
I am?
You are.
Oh, wonderful, thank you.
You're very welcome.
Where are you?
I'm in Connecticut.
Connecticut?
Yep, in central Connecticut.
And your first name is?
Marie.
Marie?
Yep.
Alright.
And I don't know, I just hazarded a call.
I'm not really an insomniac, but I go to bed Uh, whenever I'm tired.
Well, let's see.
Whenever that is.
This is about, uh, 18 minutes before 11 here or so.
12-1-2.
So it's just before 2 in the morning.
You're a pretty good insomniac if you ask me.
It's almost 2 in the morning.
Okay, good.
Okay, then I qualify.
Okay, thank you.
You, you strike me as the kind of the Wizard of Oz out there.
Yeah, sort of.
Yeah, it's neat.
You're, I don't know, you kind of move around, um, over the globe and currently you're in the West Coast?
Well, yes.
Uh, over the whole globe.
Isn't that amazing?
Yeah, I know.
I know.
It's great.
Okay, listen.
You are governed by reason, which is really wonderful.
I hope so.
Because your instincts, or whatever it is, you were certainly right on the origins of the war in Iraq.
The whole thing was, you were skeptical.
Yes.
Okay, correctly.
I'm not passing judgment here, just that that was right, and you're obviously, you know, you're practical.
So you see that currently we have to disengage, or whatever, we have to... I didn't say that.
I said we have to win.
We have to be victorious.
We can't be seen as losing another war, and we were seen as losing Vietnam.
We can't be seen that way this time.
We got into it poorly advised, but we're into it now.
We need to finish the job.
I understand.
I understand.
But the problem here, of course, is It seems like the enemy is like a mini Hydra-headed kind of thing.
So it sounds like the war will never end.
Since the enemy is morphing.
Well, I don't know about that.
I'm also not claiming to have all the answers, but there are people paid to have those and they need to figure out how to kill those who would kill us and get out of there with our skins intact, leaving something resembling A better government than they had before we went in.
That would be good.
I agree, I agree.
Okay, but it's not going to be that simple.
No, I didn't say simple.
Alright, okay.
And, okay, alright, alright.
So in the meantime, we're confronted with these images that of course harken back to the horrors of all repressive regimes.
Okay, so it's not helpful.
No, I agree with you.
It's certainly not helpful.
No question about that.
Not helpful.
That's understating it.
It's horrible.
It's incompetent.
How could it have happened?
Behind the scenes, that's what they better be finding out.
How the hell these were taken, allowed to be taken, and how they were allowed to be released.
Sheesh.
Wildcard line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello, hello.
Hello.
Hi.
Hi, Art.
I'm a Canadian.
Another Canadian.
All right.
And I'm one of our regular lines, too.
What's your first name?
Linda.
Linda.
There's a lot of us over here, Art, that still think America is a great country, and President Bush is a great president.
Well, as I tried to tell that One caller who thought we were far less than great.
You wouldn't see this kind of and didn't see this kind of public shredding of ourselves.
You didn't see that going on in Iraq.
Not once.
No.
I'm ashamed of those Americans that were protesting at Rumsfeld hearing.
I turned the news off.
I won't watch it.
I think that man is great as well.
And I felt so sad for him.
And I'm ashamed of those people there that are doing that.
That should never have been.
Also, I'm also ashamed of... I mean, I've seen those pictures.
Okay, abuse, humiliation, but not torture.
And I've talked to some men who've been in World War II They said you wouldn't believe the tortures that went on from the other countries.
Yeah, war does that.
And our side does it too.
Who's kidding who?
But how in the hell did these pictures get out?
Alright, that was also said that those pictures shouldn't have been to the public because they don't have the mentality or the emotional Um, experience to understand what war is about.
What has happened to our whole security apparatus that something like this could happen?
I mean, talk about mismanagement and screw-up.
Holy smokes.
Okay, I have to say yes.
They should have never, because we are not prepared.
And another thing, why is it that America always helps everybody else?
When everyone is in trouble, America goes to help.
Has America ever asked other countries, hey, come and help us?
Well, okay, here's another thing.
America right now has an apparent policy of not allowing pictures of its war dead coming home.
Well, there's an example of control that goes beyond the pale.
You know, they're under-controlling one aspect of what they're doing over there in Iraq, and controlling the hell out of what's going on back here in the United States.
Since when can't we show our war dead coming back?
What's the matter with us?
We never... Our press is supposed to be free to do as they feel it appropriate to do.
And I know they say it's for the privacy of the relatives of those who were killed, but nobody's Nobody's casting any aspersions on those pictures, or regarding them as anything other than heroic.
That's not the reason they're doing this.
Who's kidding who?
They're doing this because of the image of the war.
You have those photographs coming back.
It's a bad image, and that's what... You've got to remember, I lived through Vietnam, and that's what eroded uh... the support for the war uh... in in vietnam with those photographs and so this time the government has decided not to allow it and uh... you know citing something else well you know that's garbage they're not allowing those photographs because they don't want to work the road the image of the war uh... and yet uh... they come for grass we're seeing come rolling out of iraq used to the rockies you're on the air hello
Good morning, Art.
Good morning.
First, I want to thank you for the last 10 years of keeping me company overnight.
I work third shift, and it's been a pleasure.
You've enlightened and entertained and stimulated and kept me company, and I thank you for that.
We are creatures of the night.
I just think we're really shooting ourselves in the foot with the whole Iraqi situation.
I just can't believe That this is not all part of just a bigger underlying situation.
You know, there's so much talk about this global government and this one world government that supposedly the Bushes are supposed to be part of and Cheney and Rumsfeld and all down the line.
There is some grand thing behind the scenes, you know, pulling strings and they're doing a damn poor job of it.
Yeah, and I mean, you know, you go all the way back to the election, you know, with Gore winning the popular vote, and I've been a lifelong Republican, I'm 42, and, you know, I cannot see myself voting Republican this year with Bush on the ticket.
I just don't see the leadership, the vision, and the direction that we need to be taking coming from that faction.
You see it coming from the Democrats?
you know i'm not really but you know it's always the lesser of two evils
you know but uh... book but or maybe it's really needs to be done to change that
I mean, since when do we have to choose between the lesser of evils?
Well, it's been that way for a long time, but I agree, it should change.
Wouldn't you rather go to the polls and be making a positive choice in your opinion, whoever it is, rather than going and saying, well, let's see, which one of these guys is not as bad as the other one?
Right.
Oh, absolutely.
That's the way it should be.
That's the way it started out to be.
And it just scares the hell out of me to think that Slowly but surely, we are just losing our God-given rights as American citizens, rights guaranteed by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
The Patriot Act just scares me.
I just see this global government conspiracy coming more and more to light.
I don't know.
In all this happening.
Okay, alright, but as I said to you, sir, if they are in control, if there is some cabal behind the scenes jerking the strings of President Bush and all the others in high places, then they sure are screwing it up!
They're not doing a very good job.
They're very poor marionettes.
Very poor indeed.
So, I don't know.
Incompetence is how I see all this.
That's a word that continues to flash to mind.
Incompetence.
In letting all of this happen.
On the one hand, we control the image of the war by not allowing photographs of the returning dead.
On the other hand, we don't control pictures of humiliation Whatever all went on, God knows what's coming.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hi Art, this is Ed in L.A.
listening on KF by 640.
Yes.
Yeah, first about Tesla.
I'm trying to start a Tesla museum project to build a Tesla museum in the U.S.
And from my knowledge, I don't think there's ever been a Kessler Museum.
Oh, I think there is somewhere.
I remember hearing about it, but I could be wrong.
Well, I don't think it's very big, but also something else that relates to UFOs and so on.
Have you ever heard of the Sonora Arrow Club?
The Sonora Arrow Club?
Yeah.
No.
It was formed supposedly in The 1800s in Sonora, California.
That's Northern California.
Right.
And it was sort of a secret society organization called NYZMA.
And there was a man named Della Hsu in there and he was part of it and got away and they chased him and he painted pictures of these airships that were seen in the 1890s over the U.S.
Hmm.
And the University of Houston has a whole collection of them, and I'll see if there's a website you can go to, but they look like, this is no joke, they look like the Enterprise from the original Star Trek.
Really?
Yes.
So, anyway, I'm trying to find out more about the Fedora Aero Club and... All right, if you do email me, I'd be happy to see it.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Yes.
Can you hear me?
Mmm, yes.
Okay, this is Art, huh?
That would be me, yes.
Okay, how are you doing?
Fine.
Okay, hey Art, you know, I've been thinking about, you know, like, uh, the situation in Iraq.
Yes, and what have you been thinking?
Well, for example, like the whole documentation, you ask yourself, you know, like the Nazis, they documented all their atrocities, you know that?
Yes.
Very meticulously.
Yeah, I know.
I'm not trying to be funny or anything.
I didn't think you were.
So they did document.
What is your point?
Well, the point I'm trying to make is I'm not trying to be funny.
What would Father Malachi Martin think about all this?
Father Malachi Martin, sir, would think that war is a horrible thing.
That's what Father Malachi Martin would think.
He would think that war probably challenges the souls of those who are inducted into it or volunteer for it.
He would think a lot of things, but having interviewed him as frequently and knowing him as well as I do, I know exactly what Father Malachi Martin would think of war.
International Line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hi, this is Jason calling from Canada.
Hi.
Hi.
I've got a different perspective of both pictures.
I think that every GI In the, uh, in the, in every army should be given a camera and they should use them because then you could document the true horrors of war and both the, the, the, the, the really bad things.
Plus you'd probably also take pictures of the real heroism that goes on at the same time.
And the pictures would also prevent, you know, I'll cover your butt, you cover my butt and we won't tell, you know, the next higher up.
And I think a lot of the abuses that go on would suddenly be limited if you're under camera scrutiny at all times.
So maybe we could issue a camcorder to everybody who goes into combat while they're not firing.
I could shoot some footage.
Well, not necessarily a camcorder, but a digital camera that's kind of stuck on your shoulder.
At least a digital camera, huh?
Yeah.
And that way, if you know that you could have your picture taken while you're doing something wrong, There'd be less chance of you actually doing it, because most of everybody today lives or works under some kind of surveillance.
Be it a camera, or a submarine monitoring your behavior on a keyboard, or something like that.
Logging in and logging out on the internet.
There's a record of what you do.
People who are in combat, sir, have their attention divided.
I doubt that taking photographs would be... I don't know.
Real high on their list.
Yeah, in the heat of the battle, you might not be getting that, but in the things that happen, say, in the prison, or someplace else, where you're not under fire.
So anything wrong that would occur during war, then, would be worthy of a photograph, huh?
Well, yeah, because back in World War II, or Vietnam, they had journalists with cameras taking pictures as the action happened.
And maybe you'd get a better perspective on it, And this time, well, gee sir, we embedded reporters.
Wasn't that the term?
Embed?
It was kind of like that.
Some people accused, they said, that's the derivation.
It's from in bed.
Embedded.
As in bed with.
Anyway, we're going to take a 180 from last night.
We had a real non-believer here last night.
It was an amazing interview, actually, in a lot of ways.
We go 180 degrees to Bud Hopkins from the high desert in the middle of the night.
I'm Art Bell.
The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
line is area code 775-727-1222. To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free
at 800-825-5033. From west of the Rockies, call Art at 800-618-8255.
International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country Sprint Access
number, pressing Option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903. From coast to coast and
worldwide on the Internet, Art Bell. This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell. Last night
we had a professor of astronomy, a professor of physics, a well-educated man. In the
meantime, we had a professor of science, Indeed, a scientist named Guillermo Gonzalez, who believed that we're it, folks.
If there's life on Mars, it came from here.
And his own personal belief was that in all of the universe, we are the only ones.
We are the only ones.
The only intelligent life in the whole universe.
We're all alone.
In a moment comes Bud Hopkins.
Somehow I doubt that he shares that view.
rod hopkins is a world-renowned artist author pioneer
ufo abduction researcher having investigated well over seven hundred
cases now he now heads the intruders foundation which is a non-profit
scientific research and support organization but is pioneered
and continues to lead the investigation into the most controversial aspect of
the ufo phenomena systematic systematic abduction of human beings by ufo
occupants As the world's premier expert on this issue, he's worked with more than 1,000 people who have reported abduction experiences over the past 20 years.
Two decades now.
Hopkins' goal has always been to bring an objective, dispassionate scientific intelligence to bear on the UFO abduction phenomenon.
in a moment but hopkins ladies and gentlemen but hopkins
Bud, welcome to the program.
Glad to be with you, Art.
Back to the program, I guess.
We've been interviewing now for years and years, haven't we?
Oh, it goes way back.
I've been doing this kind of work for 28 years now.
28 years.
Wow.
I'm curious.
I'm sure you heard me describe a moment ago last night's guest.
It was really pretty intriguing.
He made a case, Bud, that We're the only ones, and if there is life discovered on Mars, a fact which NASA is apparently about ready to announce, it came from here, and that we're really the only intelligent life in the whole universe.
Well, you see, to me that has to be, a theory like that, and it is of course a theory, has to be an article of intense personal belief, because there's no way that one can make that kind of statement about this vast universe, that there's nothing else out there.
Actually, certainly the average scientist today would say not only is it possible that life exists elsewhere, and we can't say anything but that actually, but I think the average scientist would say it is probable that life exists elsewhere, and therefore intelligent life exists elsewhere too.
It's just absurd to think the opposite.
Well, he readily admitted his ideas were very controversial today, but that is sincerely what he thought.
And you're right, he had that as an article of faith.
It's an article of faith, it really is.
And of course, I know that there are probably many very, very conservative religious groups hither and yon around this planet of ours who would have that belief based on Uh, their own particular interpretations of whatever scriptures they follow.
But, uh, I mean, to make that statement that we know about the rest of the universe, there's nothing there in terms of intelligent life or even lower life forms.
Well, he readily admitted that it would be quite a severe shock to his system.
And so then you go back to this whole Brookings thing.
And indeed, you know, the scientists, the ones who have their careers And we talked a little bit about careers, depending on things panning out a certain way for scientists.
And when they don't, they put them up on the shelf.
You know, this is an important item for him.
He'd be really shaken.
And so I think a lot of scientists would be shaken, Bud, if there was contact.
Well, it's a very interesting thing.
Over the years, I had some rather complex dealings with the late Carl Sagan.
And of course, despite his Refusal to really entertain the possibility that the UFO phenomenon was really something that was absolutely real.
It involved a craft of some sort, extraterrestrial intelligence and so on.
Even though he would not accept that, at least on the surface, he was an absolute believer in the existence of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe.
As are most scientists, Well, I think that the trajectory of his attitude here is very strange.
of the UFO phenomenon.
Now Bud, were you privileged to speak with Carl toward the end of his life?
The rumor out there is that toward the end, Carl was beginning to perhaps change his views
a little bit.
Well I think that the trajectory of his attitude here is very strange.
He started off, and I remember the very first time I heard of him, was when he started off
on I believe the Johnny Carson's program or something like that on television, talking
about the idea that he thought there was evidence based in his examination of ancient artifacts
and cave drawings and material from primitive cultures and so on, that mankind had been
visited by intelligent life.
At some previous time, some ancient time.
That's the way he made his national reputation, with that claim.
And of course, at one point he was, as a very young man, as a major astronomer, astrophysicist, he was very much connected with other scientists who were looking into the whole thing, including eventually Alan Hynek, but people along the way.
And then it seemed that at some point he got his resistance to the UFO phenomenon stiffened, even though at one time, like I said, he thought it should be looked into.
Exactly.
And so I don't know what position he had at the end.
It was very interesting to me that once, when we did a television program together, he He was arguing on his segment of the program against the possibility that UFO phenomenon had behind it any kind of sense of extraterrestrial intelligence operating these crafts.
There wasn't anything real to it.
When I got on the program, my point was that the material that we have from the old story, from pilots, astronauts, People around the world, military people and everything else, about the reality of the UFO phenomenon itself, the craft, I said that undoubtedly constitutes an extraordinary phenomenon.
And so does, of course, all reports of abductions with the similarity of the cases from point to point around the world, the physical sequelae, the things that follow, the injuries and so forth.
All this together, I said, Carl, doesn't that constitute an extraordinary phenomenon?
And he said, yes, it does.
And I said, well, then what we should be saying here, I believe, is that an extraordinary phenomenon demands an extraordinary investigation.
And I said, we should be investigating it.
And I said, you should be doing it, not me.
Well, you know, perhaps, but he met up with some, you know, I mean, he was a quickly, a very quick rising star and he may have met up with some rather impressive mainstream influence that during the middle of his life, the successful part of it prohibited him from going out on that limb.
I think you're absolutely right with that, Art, and when you realize that, of course, Any scientist in his position really is extremely dependent upon government handouts, so to speak, in terms of having your scientific projects accepted and funded by the government.
Yes.
And you're, in a certain sense, also beholden to your colleagues who are controlling the future of your professorship and The laboratory access that you have and so forth, that it must have dawned on him at some point that taking any kind of a firmer stand was probably not going to be helpful in the long run.
But my feeling about him, and we exchanged letters and it was kind of a complex, interesting relationship, my sense always was that he was extremely uneasy about the subject.
This was not a man who in any kind of intimate connection that one might have with him.
Uneasy, that's an interesting assessment.
That's an interesting word.
Why uneasy in the sense that he couldn't say what he thought probably was true?
Yes, that's exactly what I mean.
My feeling was that whether or not he To take it to one extreme, had viewed the bodies and kicked the wreckage and kicked the tires on them and so forth, all the way down to the other end, which is that he had heard enough from some colleagues who were privy to such absolute and specific information.
Which, wherever he fell along that line, I think that he was certainly aware of enough to know that his position was His public position of opposing this was perhaps way over the top.
Interesting.
And of course, watching the astronauts is also an interesting exercise, sort of a story to be told there.
Some of them act very strangely on this topic indeed.
Well anyway, you've had so many years of research and you've got a brand new book, right, called Sight Unseen?
That's right, Sight Unseen.
It's my fourth book.
I'm not a very prolific writer.
In the 28 years I've been doing this kind of research, I've managed to write four books, so seven-year gaps between are not very suggestive of somebody who was a prolific writer.
So, in other words, you must wait until you really feel like you've got a couple of aces in your hand before you start out.
In other words, what motivates you to finally sit down and start working?
Well, actually, it's a nice image to use.
My basic point has always been this, that I would never present another book, unless I had new material that suggested an aspect of the patterns of abductions.
In other words, an across-the-board dimension to the abduction phenomenon that we really were not familiar with before.
So, each book was adding not just new case material or anything of that sort, but new aspects of the phenomenon, of the pattern that needed to be presented.
For example, when I wrote Intruders and presented that material in 1987, a long time ago, that was the first time that we had, that any of us had dealt with the idea that the UFO abduction phenomenon had at its center, really, the taking of sperm samples, ova samples, and just skin samples and so forth to use DNA, actually to get this material as raw material for DNA experimentation in a basic attempt to create a mix, a hybrid mix of human and alien characteristics to create some kind of new
Semi-alien, semi-human species.
You are convinced now that is the central motivation for abductions?
Yeah, I feel that one thing that we can say is the constant, even though there are many other aspects of the phenomena that turn up in individual cases, but that is the constant.
And of course, what that explained immediately was why the UFO abduction phenomenon was taking place Uh, within families across bloodlines and that the same individuals were being abducted again and again as if there was a particular study going on of the genetic makeup of a particular set of individuals.
Okay, I'd like to run this by you, Bud.
It was in the last couple of months or so.
I think Whitley had been on here and described what amounted to a sort of a sexual experience, or I guess an experience with sexual content.
And, you know, I sort of proffered it on the air and I said, you know, I'm curious, how many of you in abduction experiences have had some sort of sexual encounter and oh my god bud, it was like the doors opened up and I had thousands and thousands of emails and I went
What am I going to do about this?
I mean, here's a subject that's not very much discussed, and I just stumbled into something, and I don't know how I'm going to talk about this on the air.
Well, you know, the basic way, of course, that we know we're dealing with a kind of alien program, one might call it, rather than just a simple collection of individual stories from people that don't collectively add up to anything is when you see that there are these recurring themes that turn up again and again and again.
And this is exactly what I mean about approaching these things from the point of view of finding patterns.
And one of the things that I discovered, for example, when I was dealing with the fact that there is this reproductive focus to the UFO phenomenon, And this is something we go into at length in the book, which I'll talk about in a bit, but when I discovered that, I also noticed when I went over the accounts that people were giving me of what had happened to them during abductions, is that there were certain things that never came up.
In other words, we had what you might call a negative pattern.
An example here is that for every one of us, when we go to the doctor, we have For our checkups and so forth, the doctor pulls out a stethoscope and our blood count is taken and people look into cholesterol and certainly the cardiovascular system is central to everybody's concern when they go to the doctor.
The heart is a big deal to us and the state of our arteries and yet I have no cases where people in abduction experiences are reporting anything being Done to their heart any interest in the cardiovascular system at all.
Now if you're dealing with thousands and thousands of reports and something that should turn up, if this is fantasy, never turns up.
Ever, ever, ever.
Right.
And yet something like this interest in the reproductive system and the central nervous system, which always comes up, that has got to tell you there's some kind of distinct pattern here to these reports.
It does.
It does.
Of course, what the actual final motivation is, I'm not so clear on that.
The fact that it's reproductively oriented, that's beyond question.
I mean, if you saw the thousands of replies I got, I was overwhelmed.
I just said, you know what?
Some serious researcher, just like you, Bud, is going to have to take this over, because there's no way I can handle this on the air.
As much as we do stuff like this on the air, there's just no way.
And so, it's a big one, Bud.
It's really a big one.
I don't know, though, if the final motivation is sort of a genetically modified species.
You believe that to be true, huh?
I believe that that, of course, is the goal of the thing, but what that function is going to be eventually of that particular modified mix of human and alien characteristics, what those individuals are supposed to end up doing, where they're going to live and so forth, that we do not know.
In other words, we don't have any of the big, big, big answers.
Do we know to whose benefit this is?
That's right.
We don't know that.
We have no reason to see right now, you know, the two ends of this.
We don't have any reason to see this as we're going to be taken over or conquered and so forth by these transgenic beings.
And that's the better term rather than the hybrid.
That's the term we use in the book.
That there are genetic splicings of engineering going on here, which are quite different than the old-fashioned system of taking sexual cells from two different species and trying to create a hybrid as a mule is created.
But these beings, we don't know whether they're going to, on one end, come down and take over and run things, and that's the end of us.
...the most frightening side, or that they're going to be helpful to us, that they're here to, you know, cure cancer, etc., etc.
Are you beginning to lean in one direction or the other?
Well, actually, I've long since been more worried, more on the pessimistic side than the other side, simply because it would seem that the UFO occupants, whoever they are, wherever they come from, whatever their nature is, Again, questions we cannot answer at this point.
We've never seen any sign that they are here to be an official to help us to do anything.
All right.
Bud, hold it right there.
We're at the bottom of the air, and we'll be right back.
Bud Hopkins is my guest.
in the night time in the middle of the night this is Coast to Coast AM and I'm Art Bell.
Out on the street I was talking to a man he said there's so much for this love of mine that I don't understand
You should read, baby take my hand don't feel the recoil, we'll be able to fly
don't feel the recoil, baby I'm your man La la la la la la la La la la la la la la la
La la la la la la la Valentine has come, here by the flowery path
Romeo and Juliet, all together in eternity Romeo and Juliet, forty thousand men will win every day
Romeo and Juliet, forty thousand men will win every day Romeo and Juliet, forty thousand men will win every day
Come on baby, don't be a lonely boy Baby take my hand, don't be a lonely boy
We'll be able to fly, don't be a lonely boy The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
line at area code 775-727-1295. The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
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But we'll get down to cases, literally.
you In this book, Sight Unseen, that's Bud Hopkins', my guess, book, Sight Unseen, the case material is by far the most radical that he's ever presented.
So, it might be interesting to hear a bit of that case material coming up.
Let's do exactly that.
Let's do exactly that.
Let's get down to some cases.
I mean, you put some pretty radical case material in the book.
Can you preview some?
Well, absolutely.
The basic reason for the title of the book, Sight Unseen, is the unseen part of the title has to do with the fact that one feature to the UFO abduction phenomenon, which Many of us have accepted and understood for a long time, but have been reluctant to make public because it seems so outrageous, is the fact that when abductions take place, in some way, the abduction is rendered invisible, unseeable.
In other words, an abduction can take place actually in the middle of New York City in the daytime, and I have many such cases.
In Paris, London, Istanbul, around the world, abductions cases have occurred that I have looked into where people are taken and the following does not happen.
The UFO is not seen.
That hovering, let's say, next to the building of the skyscraper or so on where the people are taken.
The individual aliens who are transported down a beam of light and into the place of the car, the automobile, the street, wherever the person is taken, they are invisible at that moment, and so are the human beings who are taken, the abductees.
In other words, in some way, everything can be veiled and rendered unseeable, and that's in the daytime.
At night, it doesn't make any difference where it is.
There is a technology of invisibility, which is, on the face of it, seems totally off the wall and outrageous.
Oh, I'm not so sure about that.
Any alien race that could get here, for whatever their motivations would happen to be, would be sufficiently advanced to be, I'm sure, invisible to us, if that's what they wished.
On the one hand, you could say that, but on the other hand, you could also say, well, it's easy to say it's invisible Then how do we know it's real?
Well, this is the, of course, that's an extremely important point.
The thing about the technology, of course, you're absolutely right, that if they can get here from wherever there is, then it would certainly seem that we don't want to limit their technological abilities by looking at our own And saying, well, we can't do that.
They can.
However, one of the themes of our book, and it's very central, is the fact that earthly technology is beginning to approach alien technology in many different areas, including experiments that are going on right now that the government is carrying out with the idea of invisibility.
And that's a long, complex area in the book that My wife Carol Rainey, my co-author, has gone into.
You're saying that our government is now working on invisibility?
Absolutely.
And it may, now my point, of course Art, is that the way science is approaching this issue, to veil something, to make it unseeable, etc., might be entirely different than anything the aliens are able to do But their technology might have approached the problem along completely different lines.
But the fact is that what our book is trying to do is to take the para out of paranormal, really, and to show the distance between what seemed to be magical technology on the alien's part and our own technology, that distance is shrinking.
Now, in terms of whether an abduction is real, if it can't be seen, of course, is another story.
Abductions have to be examined in terms of their reality, the physical things that occur, the marks that are left on people, etc.
Well, down to cases, but without naming names, can you give me an example of a case where For example, it was unseen, but there remained some physical evidence that we could, you know... Okay, well, one of the cases I go into occurred in 1948, and of course, as we know, the abduction phenomenon did not really become a public issue or known, really, anywhere around the world in any
great depth until the betty barney hill case came to light in nineteen sixty
six right occurred in sixty one but we're talking about forty eight this is
uh... one year after rosswell and in that particular case uh... the woman i was dealing
with was uh... a very young child at the time
and she and her uh... brother at work
put down for naps in there uh... bedroom in the middle the afternoon in cincinnati ohio
by their mother who i've had to be able to interview
upon several occasions too and uh... what
uh... the mother and and everyone recall consciously and i should point out incidentally that the central figure
in this case the woman
uh... who i have given them uh... a few named to
uh... have had many many abduction experiences the rest of her life all
kinds of issues This is one that she didn't bring up to me at first because she didn't know what to make of it, and she couldn't remember the content of the abduction consciously.
But what she did remember consciously, and her mother well remembered, is that the mother put them to bed in their little bedroom on the second floor of a building, really in the suburbs of Cincinnati.
The next thing the mother knew was that somebody came tearing up the stairs saying that the children were outside on the ground at the basement of the cellar, the cellar steps, her children, both of them, and that they must have fallen out the window.
The mother panicked, went tearing down stairs, and this central figure remembered That she sort of woke up and she couldn't move.
She was lying on top of her brother at the foot of these basement steps, which incidentally were not underneath any of the windows from the bedroom.
Right.
They had no memory of falling.
They were both paralyzed and unable to speak.
They were rushed to the hospital by a totally panicked mother and examined.
And though they had fallen in effect because of the basement steps where they were found on cement, They had fallen three stories.
There was not a mark on either one of them.
Nothing that had done any kind of damage, and yet they both remembered consciously floating out the window, and some kind of huge shadow over the house, and they couldn't remember exactly what happened consciously, but the point is that the doctor and everyone else, of course, involved said, there's no possible way these children could have fallen three stories onto cement Uh, which would have meant they would have had the phone at a diagonal instead of straight down.
Um, uh, without, you know, actually this very serious possibility that they would have been absolutely killed.
They could not have survived, not have a mark on them.
And under hypnosis, the entire experience came up.
The woman described being floated out the window, she and her little brother, and lifted
up into the craft, and then when the experience was over, they were put down at this basement
steps.
And the brother remembers floating out the window, he doesn't remember, he doesn't want
to undergo hypnosis, etc.
But anyway, the basic point of all this, there's a great deal of material about this in the
book.
The point is that this happened in broad daylight, in the middle of a suburban area with stores
and buildings and everything around.
Nobody saw a UFO, nobody saw children come out a window, floating or falling or otherwise,
nobody heard any screams, there was no energy, no kind of injury to any of the people involved.
And that's the kind of case which implies invisibility, and yet we have cases we deal with in the book where it becomes a much more Tangible thing.
Okay, we'll get to that in a second.
I'm curious, that was a long time ago.
Has there been any follow-up with these children since then?
Well, of course, I've been working with the mother, who is now in her fifties, and she has a child, two children actually, who are seemingly having abduction experiences from time to time, as if they are part of this ongoing kind of A study of a particular bloodline.
The brother, who is now a man in his late fifties, does not want to look into this and is still suffering from a great deal of fear connected with his memory of that time of being paralyzed.
When they were picked up and taken to the hospital, rushed to the hospital, they only regained the ability to move and speak over a period of between a half an hour and an hour.
And again, there was no physical mark on them.
No explanation of why they could not speak and why their bodies were paralyzed.
That's remarkable.
So, but this is just another case of something much more tangible.
A woman who's given her name, Katharina Wilson, who I've worked with before and has actually written finally about her experience.
She's a very, very solid, intelligent woman with a great deal of personal integrity.
I have the experience of getting off a plane in Chicago at O'Hare Airport, walking into the ladies' room, and feeling very, very strange.
At the airport, she just got off the plane and went to the ladies' room, and then walked over to the sink.
She put soap on her hands, and when she put her hands under the faucet, the sensors did not turn on.
Did not work, and the water did not come on to make her hands wet.
She went to the next sink, and the next sink, and the next sink, and could not get anything to register her.
And finally, there was a woman who stepped away.
The water was still running.
She plunged her hands under there, and still nothing happened.
She had to go to a little stall where there was a tap she could work with her own hand.
Now, she could see herself.
She had no problem with that.
But she became aware that nobody could see her.
She was not registering on the faucets.
And the next thing she knew was, without understanding how she got there, really, she was approaching the baggage return area where she was to be met by two friends who described her as suddenly just popping into existence, popping up.
And all the luggage had been taken but hers, and she realized that there was something like an hour and a quarter or what, or thereabout, of missing time.
Missing?
Now this meant that the two witnesses who said she just popped into existence, one of them I interviewed at great length, and she said it was as if she just suddenly in this room popped into reality.
And it had been invisible a moment before, and it was a terrifying thing to all of them.
Nobody knew what to do or say, but I have other cases of this sort of thing happening, too.
So the implication of this is that you said there was an hour of missing time, so the implication is that the process of an abduction includes, perhaps, invisibility as a precursor to the abduction, and then something that lingers perhaps a little while following the in this case it seems to be something that
can be switched on and off
we've been there problem is that somebody's being abducted from the busiest
airport in the united states so here
uh... and have to be returned to another part of the airport the
uh... baggage return area uh... that perhaps there is a lingering uh... uh... a
period of where the visibility
that's really paying past the uh... the technical needs of the abduction of
Yes, yes.
Do you have similar reports from others of invisibility, of what's seemingly spontaneous invisibility?
Right.
I go into six cases totally in the book in order to establish this as a pattern.
Another took place with two airmen, a very interesting case, who were at an Air Force
base and their job was to man a first response fire truck that went out at night onto the
tarmac where the student pilots were practicing landings and takeoffs.
Even though fire trucks at airports, thank God, don't get much business in terms of accidents,
at an air base with trainees, I'm sure that's quite different.
Uh, landing and taking off can be a little difficult for somebody who's just learning.
So there was a serious business.
So they were parked there and they did, they set up their truck the way they're supposed to, uh, putting their, their asbestos gear, their fireproof gear and so forth out so they can get into it in a second and so on.
And, uh, what they both remember is waking up, sort of coming to, And feeling extremely sick and thinking, what's just happened?
With no memory of what it was that had just happened.
Their gear had been disturbed, had been sort of knocked around, and they realized that it was extremely late and they were past the time they were supposed to report back to the base.
They had no idea what happened.
One of them became violently ill and was vomiting.
they were extremely frightened and they realized their clothes were
rather disorganized and when they went back and checked in uh... had walked into the uh... uh... the barracks where
they were staying uh... still feeling extremely wobbly and totally confused
somebody noticed that they were wearing each other's shirts their name tags were
wrong name tag. The shirts had been buttoned wrong and put on the wrong people
uh... they had no idea what had happened They knew something had gone very, very radically wrong.
Now, the point about all this, of course, is the abduction material, exactly what occurred, turned up when I did hypnosis with one of these young men.
But this is the important thing.
They were in full view of this airbase.
They were right out there on the runway near the control tower.
This abduction, where the craft came down over their truck, they were lifted up, a beam of light taken from the truck, no one could see it apparently, at an airbase, where there were all kinds of people standing around with binoculars and so on, and radar equipment, and so on, watching the very area where they were, which was near where the planes were landing and taking off.
So we have another case where invisibility seems to be the only explanation for how this thing could have taken place.
That's a new take on all this.
I hadn't even considered this invisibility business.
Well, I tell you, when I deal with abductions that have occurred in Tokyo, and these are cases I really looked into, Rio de Janeiro, Chicago, Los Angeles, Istanbul, around the world, Paris, London, these could not have taken place without Thousands and thousands and thousands of people having seen at least the craft, people floating up.
We have no reports of people floating up a beam of light.
The only exception, of course, where something has been seen is the case that I wrote about a witness.
And that was a case where the UFO occupants were deliberately showing off what they could do.
And in fact, we have all kinds of witnesses to this.
I have new witnesses, and I'm going to be writing a A new edition of the book to bring it up to date with all new witnesses.
When that just was a, you might call it a kind of a control experiment, it shows how many people would have seen something even though it happened at 3 a.m.
and took a very, very short time.
It was in New York City and we do have a lot of people who saw it.
So, that's all the more reason for us to understand why it's virtually miraculous that no one has ever seen any other abduction take place From a distance like this in a big city.
So New York is the sole case you know of?
The only one.
The only one.
All right, but hold on.
I want to talk to you about a whole bunch of things like memories and how much these people remember of what actually happened to them during the abduction and whether that only comes back through hypnosis.
And then I want to talk about hypnosis and how effective that is in terms of getting to the truth.
The truth.
That's a tough one, right?
I'm Art Bell.
This is Coast to Coast AM, making its way through the nighttime with the world's expert on abductions.
That would be Bud Hopkins.
stay right where you are happy and i'm smiling, walking miles to drink your water
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one interview chan- you
BOOM!
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The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up Through tarmac to the sun again
Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing
To have all these things in our memories whole And they use them to help us to fly
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Run, take a pillow, take my voice, up a seat, it's for free.
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From coast to coast, and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
We are discussing rides with Bud Hopkins.
Good morning everybody, I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
My guest is Bud Hopkins, and we're discussing abduction.
Specifically, abductions that you cannot see, for the most part.
Hence the title of his latest book, Sight Unseen.
A book you might want to check out.
It's his latest.
He doesn't write a lot of them.
When he does, he's got a good reason.
We'll be right back and you'll hear some more of them.
I would certainly be interested, you know, in any accounts out there
of a parent, I say parent, a spontaneous invisibility.
Because you might well, of course, not know then that it is attached to a period of time that you might be missing.
Not everybody notices the fact they've had missing time.
Bud, welcome back.
Glad to be back.
And in fact, is that true?
In other words, somebody might sort of, I don't know, stumble into this seemingly, you know, this strange invisibility thing and sort of dismiss it and not even think about the missing time and understand that they have been abducted?
Well, my actual feelings are that the cases that we have heard about that get reported Of course, you've got a huge number of reports, as you described, having to do with the sexual issue, but the reports that we get over the years, I think, are really just the tiny tip of the iceberg of what actually goes on.
People have an incredible ability to somehow explain away absolutely bizarre experiences that they've had.
They may not remember fully the details of the event, they may remember perhaps the beginning of something or the end of it, but they don't remember what happened, and therefore, I think that what we hear about is only a tiny percentage.
I want to give you one example, too, of this invisibility issue.
Please.
This is a man that I have worked with recently.
and of what he remembered consciously and this is it took him years and years
now his forties before he began to connect a whole series of events to the ufo abduction phenomenon he
just didn't know why i was having
he's weird experiences uh... he's a brick he lives in uh... suburbs of london
but when he was sixteen he went to uh... a friend's house we've never been before another part of london
uh... fellow he'd met uh... job from a job they had He was 16, as I say, they were young men.
Um, he went there for, uh, a party.
Uh, they were gonna watch, uh, David Bowie, um, television program.
They were all David Bowie fans.
So he met his, his, uh, co-workers, other friends, other boys who came over there.
Uh, and, uh, ultimately, when it got late, uh, he spent the night there.
At his friend's place.
Boy's family was away.
Took off all his clothes, got in bed, went to sleep.
And when he woke up, he felt very strange, but the room didn't look right.
It didn't look like the way he remembered it from the night before.
And he saw a stairway in his room, which wasn't there before.
Stumbled around, could not find any of his clothes.
Wrapped himself up in a bedspread, not knowing what was happening.
He went up the stairs and found himself in a strange kitchen at someone's house.
A woman screamed and yelled, �What are you doing here?� He said, �John asked me to
spend the night.� She said, �John who?� It turned out he was in a different house,
and yet as it turned out, it was the house of one of the boys who had been at the party
the night before.
That boy said, �What are you doing here in the house?
How did you get in?� He said, �I have no idea.� It turns out that this house is a house he had never
visited in his life.
It was three miles away from the house where he had gone to bed and where his clothes still were, and nobody had any idea what happened, how he managed, in the dead of winter, to somehow get from one house stark naked three miles to another house where he'd never been before.
How did this case make it to you?
Well, he had a number of other experiences later on, which suggested to him, finally � this was about three years ago � that they may be connected with the abduction phenomenon, because he remembers some more specific details of some of these later experiences.
Well, a pathetically small number of rapes are ever reported to the police is my understanding, Bud, so imagine how few people would be inclined, you know, to go to the police or authorities and say, look, I was abducted and raped By aliens.
Or something like that.
Not a lot of those are going to get reported.
Plus, you know, if you don't remember, bud, the human brain tries to make sense of what it simply can't process, you know?
Exactly.
It has no reference.
Well, this young man said that his friends, who sort of stopped seeing him at the time because they thought he must be weird, began referring to him as the streaker.
You know, the winter streaker who streaked three miles stark naked across London.
At any rate, when we looked into the case, out came a classic abduction experience, and he has physical marks.
In other words, there's a whole range of evidence suggesting that these were real experiences, but we have no way to explain it if they weren't abductions.
How the heck did this happen?
But again, this suggests the role that a certain invisibility technology plays in the success
that the aliens have in carrying off these experiences in big cities all around the world
at will.
One of the questions you had written down here, are there circles of power who already
know about this invisibility technology and are suppressing it?
That's very interesting.
Bud, they're working on airplanes that you cannot see from the ground.
You hear them, you look up, and they reflect essentially The sky, and so they appear to be invisible, but are we talking here about the invisibility of things and people that our government might be working on?
Well, at least, there are various different ways in which invisibility seems to be approached Different laboratories in different ways, and this is the area that my wife has taken up to write about in the book.
She's been handling the science areas here, but just to give you an example, there are certain conditions where a plasma, if it surrounds an object, can somehow deflect the light rays around it, so that the plasma can actually shield the solid object that's within it.
The thing you were describing about making an airplane invisible, an object, this is something that the military technology is busy pursuing, and that is that if you have, for instance, on a plane or a tank or something, screens which are, in effect, tiny TV screens all over the surface of it, Right.
And at the same time, there are cameras behind the object, on the other side of it, photographing what's behind it.
Yes.
And they carry the image around to the screens on the front of the object.
Right.
One would be looking at this object and not see anything except what's behind it.
Correct.
But the kind of invisibility, that's one kind.
That's one kind.
we don't really know you see exactly what type is that the ufo occupants
are uh... able to uh...
carry out a personal kind of theories but but first time i've heard the word plasma associated with
it So, plasma would reflect, or bends the light, or takes light around?
It deflects the light waves, yes.
It can under certain controlled conditions.
And these are experiments.
Now, one of the things I wanted to point out about the way in which Our technology is getting closer to the aliens, which is very interesting.
When Betty Hill was abducted lo these many years ago, 1961, this needle was inserted into her navel.
It was very painful, a very big needle, and she was told by the aliens this was a pregnancy test.
Well, of course, everyone said, the skeptics said, oh, this is just a fantasy, it's a phallic symbol of some kind of weird masochistic sexual fantasy she had, etc.
Because there's nothing about going in the navel that has to do with pregnancy.
And of course, a few years later, laparoscopy was developed and a basic procedure was of course used very frequently to test the viability of the fetus by inserting a long needle into the navel so as not to make a mark, a hole, and amniotic fluid could be recovered and the status of the fetus could be studied that way.
Now it makes perfect sense that what the aliens were doing, even though it wasn't exactly a pregnancy test, but one could call it a test of pregnancy, or a removal of an oval retrieval procedure, something of that sort.
But at any rate, the aliens were doing something that was being reported by abductees.
It didn't seem to make any sense until our own science moved up to a position which did make sense of it.
But that would indicate that our scientific progress, as you point out, is beginning to approach, or not that far behind, theirs.
Or we're beginning to approach something that would begin to reveal them, perhaps, to us.
That's what it would seem like.
And as our science develops, and of course it's developing at an incredible rate.
Now, a second thing is, of course, that many abductees, many, And Linda Cortillo wrote about it, and witnesses, just one of many, have described that when they were on the table in the examination area of this UFO, their arm was lifted up, and a kind of a blunt, semi-knife-like instrument scraped across the skin, flaking off, of course, skin samples, which were collected by the aliens.
And this has been reported by hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of abductees.
And of course we didn't know what that was for, except that now, very frequently when we're doing experiments, genetic experiments, one of the basic techniques used is to take skin samples by scraping across the forearm and flaking off layers of skin, which of course is not intrusive or damaging in any way.
And so we're doing something now that makes sense to us, of course, in terms of our own science.
It was being reported by abductees at a time that didn't make any sense to anybody.
So, these sorts of things, these connections between scientific developments of our own, either because it's just the natural way our science develops or whether or not there is some particular impetus being given to that area of science by UFO abduction reports or descriptions we don't really know, But the distance between alien science and human science is shrinking.
But most of the, or I guess the majority of the subjects that are willing to undergo hypnosis probably do, or you request them to.
Is that true?
Well, they have to want to do it.
Right, right.
But assuming... If they don't really want to do it, nothing happens.
Right, of course.
But assuming they volunteer, then you do take advantage of...
So, I'd like to understand a couple of basic things about hypnosis as you know them.
How really effective is hypnosis?
I mean, for example, is it true or not that a person under hypnosis would always be telling you the truth or is that incorrect?
Well, that is a complex question.
Let's start with the situation.
That the person has a period of missing time about which they're certain.
In other words, to go back to the case of the young man in England, something happened.
He went to bed in one place, and he woke up in another place.
And he woke up, you know, six, seven, eight hours later.
What happened in all of that time?
How did he get from one place to another?
I mean, you start with the existence of a gap, of a mystery, of a problem.
So, we know that there's something that has to be recovered.
Some kind of memory has to be recovered because he has some idea how he got from one place to another.
So, you're starting with something that is a fixed, viable period of time that has to be really understood as to where he went.
Now, in terms of a person's perceptions under hypnosis, it isn't that the person is a truth machine.
But the person is reporting his or her perceptions of what's going on at the time.
Now, those perceptions might be, just to give an example, under hypnosis, a person who is nearsighted, who goes to bed, let's say this abduction takes place at night during sleep, and he's awakened and taken out, or she, uh... goes to bed without it their glasses on
and uh... they're in a ship they're not going to be described anything that they
couldn't that they would have had trouble seeing
uh... with any kind of clarity is other words they'll play things right here
off in the distance there but i could see these figures standing close to me or something of that
sort uh... it's not any kind of magic uh... trip into some sort
of uh... way of of
receiving can you explain what about hypnosis allows people to remember
things that they otherwise with uh... actually heart i don't think anybody really
understand how it works because
what seems to happen here with the ufo abduction for them and is that
a kind of artificial block has been placed over
the events of the abduction itself
Now that block is far from complete and absolute.
Only at the conscious level.
Yeah. Many people, yes, exactly, but many people remember, despite what seems to have been an attempt of the aliens to
make them not remember what happened, they remember a huge amount of what's
happened.
I've worked with people who have remembered every damn detail of what occurred
from the beginning to the end of the experience.
Is there any way you can account for why one individual remembers while another cannot?
In other words, the block is effective on one and not another?
We have no way of measuring that.
We don't know.
Or do you think the block is simply not put on some?
That may be the case, but we suspect that since the goal has seemed to have been to keep the whole phenomenon A covert all the way along, especially if it's happening again and again to the same people and to their children, the covert goal seems to be there.
But we don't know why it doesn't seem to take hold of everybody in the same way.
And what's very interesting about this is that after an abduction, let's suppose there are two people in a car.
What they remember consciously is the car stopping, and then they remember somehow the car starts up again, and they're in another location, and things are very confused.
This is one of the cases I dealt with, and interestingly, when the woman got home after this was over, and there was a two-hour time-lapse, she found that her earrings were both on backwards.
In other words, the little stud was on the outside, and she held it in place.
As if the aliens don't quite understand jewelry.
I was going to say, we're not dealing with fully competent abductors here, in every case, are we?
I mean, they dump people off in the wrong place.
They make mistakes, they really do.
But the point about this particular case is, as the event was over, and the cars started up again, and they're feeling extremely strange, and there's that feeling of what just happened, but they can't remember what it was, The man, in this case, turned to the woman and said, you know, I saw a very strange thing out the window.
Now, he's the driver.
Out the left side, he said, it looked like a huge football stadium all lit up.
But it didn't seem to be up a little bit.
And he said, did you see that?
And she said, yes.
She said, you mean that thing that was right in front of the car?
Now, and, you know, there are further things, of course, that went on, where each one was picking up, they had conscious memories of different moments in the whole sequence of the abduction that they had both experienced in, apparently, exactly the same way.
So all the objects of invisibility are visible to each other, is that...?
Absolutely.
Okay, hold it right there, bud, we'll be right back.
My guest is Bud Hopkins, probably the world's leading researcher on people getting snatched, abducted by others.
We'll be right back.
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Jimmy Rogers on the victrola up high Mamas dancing with baby on her shoulder
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Everything, always wanting more It ain't your longing for
Black velvet and that little boy's smile I'm out.
You tell him you've seen and you talk about anything.
He's got this dream about buying some land.
He's gonna give up the booze and the one night stands and then he'll settle down.
It's a quiet little town and forget about everything.
But you know he'll always keep moving.
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Isn't it interesting?
There's a commonality then between that and those affected by invisibility.
It's as though they suddenly, well I don't know, somebody threw a switch
and they shifted into a different vibrational state.
Once again, Bud Hopkins.
So in other words, it is kind of like somebody throws a switch, huh Bud?
Uh, the people who are abducted, uh, I see I'm sitting here talking to somebody who's invisible.
Because we lost him.
I don't know where he went.
Bud, you're not there, so let's redial Bud right now.
That's really funny.
He was indeed invisible.
Okay, here we go.
This should do it.
Maybe.
We'll see what happens.
Bud?
Hello?
Bud, you went invisible on me.
I'm afraid I did.
I think it might be the phone here.
It's a wireless phone.
So let me give you a cell phone number in case this happens again.
Well, no, you're on the air.
Don't be giving that out or you'll be sorry.
Oh, you're right.
So we'll just hope this one hangs together.
Let's hope so.
I tried to charge it up here.
I think that might have been the problem.
At any rate, do you have another one you can pick up should that occur again?
I don't, unfortunately.
Oh, my gosh.
We've all descended into this wireless world.
In this wireless world is a problem.
Yes.
All right.
So anyway, as I was saying, it seems as though things and people all enter this realm as if somebody throws a switch and like suddenly just shifting to a different vibrational rate or something.
Something like that.
We don't know quite how it works.
But just to move to the other aspect of the book that is the most Perhaps the strangest of all, it has to do with the scene part, which is the fact that we have many, many cases, and this is the whole second half of the book, has to do with people who seem to be creatures, beings, part human and part alien, who seem to be operating in the real world, right along with the UFO aliens, the grey beings, in facilitating abductions.
In other words, they seem to be able to eat meals, drive cars, talk to people and so forth,
yet these transgenic beings seem to be able to absolutely control another personís behavior,
read their minds, pass through walls, and do the things that the aliens themselves are
able to do.
This is, of course, the ultimate result of what I had written about in ìIntrudersî,
where it seemed to be the basic purpose that we discussed earlier of the phenomenon really
was to produce this kind of viable mix.
Whatís interesting to me in terms of the objections science has and how theyíve had
it back away.
When I wrote Intruders and I talked about this attempt to create a mix of alien and human characteristics, I was of course attacked roundly that it's impossible, we could never do such a thing.
And of course since 1987, when that book came out, we have mapped the human genome, which is unbelievable as an accomplishment.
And we are now in an area where, as you know, they have been able to take a gene from a jellyfish and splice it into the genetic makeup of a rabbit.
So they now have a rabbit that, under certain lighting conditions, glows in the dark.
No, I didn't know we had done that.
We have done that.
And of course, more famously than that, uh... a gene from a famine has been inserted into the
genetic makeup of the tomato plant
and we have now have tomatoes that are able to withstand cold
so we've crossed from the animal to the vegetable realms if if i had written any of those things back in nineteen
eighty seven i would have been totally uh... laughed out of
i thought you were going to tell me we now have a tomato that swims upstream
No, that we don't have.
Maybe we should work on that.
I'm not at all totally comfortable with this whole direction that science is going.
I don't think anybody is, really, except the scientists for whom this is just a catnip to the cat.
But the point is that if we are now doing these things, the alien ability to, let's Pick and choose and do the kind of engineering that our scientists are able to do right here and now.
What this means, of course, is that there's even a great deal more evidence suggesting that this is the basic goal of the whole abduction Okay, so we understand their modus operandi to some degree.
Do we understand their objectives as well?
No, that we don't.
You see, that's the point.
That's the big question, and that's something that we really don't know.
We don't know if it's to help them, or to help us, or to hurt us.
Well, we have no reason.
You see, there hasn't been anything that looked Like it was deliberately malevolent, out to harm, out to do damage to us.
That just doesn't turn up.
On the other hand, we don't have any real sign that anything is being done to help us.
Yes, but we understand their objective.
We're not going to understand if ultimately they're here from the government, like the government, to help us, or what?
Well, we just don't, I mean, we have no idea what their goals are, and I don't know where we're going to hear that, and I don't know even if There was some sort of government, you know, some MJ-12 type group that has formed some kind of theory.
It might be an incorrect theory.
Do you believe there is such a group, Bud?
Do you believe that within government or perhaps its environments, its fringe, I don't know, there is some kind of a group that is or has made contact or is aware of Well, certainly that they're aware of it.
I mean, there's no doubt for me of the fact of a government cover-up.
I mean, I just think that's been proved beyond any reasonable doubt at this point.
That there is some branch thereof that is extremely aware and is taking it extremely seriously and probably, at this moment, beaming into the Art Bell Program to find out what we might know.
No, I don't think there's any doubt that there's a government cover-up.
Now, whether or not there is contact between government sources and the aliens, even if there were contact, that it would be reliable.
In other words, which side might be lying to the other?
Who knows what?
Those are questions that I don't really know the answer to.
But the fact of the cover-up seems to be beyond doubt.
Our government has not recently demonstrated the ability to cover things up all that well.
This would be, obviously, such a massive cover-up.
Well, then, on the other hand, ladies and gentlemen, when you get that in the middle of the conversation, hear that?
click ha ha ha
well you know ha ha ha
ha ha ha ah then on the other hand
what an interesting moment
for us to have lost the connection with Bud
Now that may be his telephone, but That was a strange way for it to lose power, if that's what it was, wasn't it?
Very odd.
Very odd indeed.
Well, let's see, what are we going to do?
I think what we're going to do is take a couple of phone calls and Bud will put his phone on the hook and I will try him at the top of the hour and we'll see How much more we can squeeze out of Bud.
So we'll let it recharge for a little bit as opposed to going to the cellular line and trying to redial him right now.
I don't think that would be...
That was quite a moment for it to go out, wasn't it?
Absolutely amazing.
So why not?
I'll take a few calls here.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
Hello?
Hi, this is Desiree.
Can you hear me?
I can hear you fine, unlike what just happened with Bud.
Hi, I'm on a landline.
I just shut off my radio.
I tried calling you on your last segment, which I think is very highly connected to this segment as well, in the aspect that I was wondering, Because we have so much government.
Are you there?
Yes.
You're so quiet.
Well, I'm trying to listen.
That's my job.
We have so much technology that in our government, in our society, where our government can see, you know, people on the streets from satellites.
And I'm questioning the motives of our government, why they've kept UFOs.
You would question our government's motives?
Oh, for heaven's sakes.
You wouldn't think our government would be pure and come clean about the fact that aliens are here and taking people for God knows what reason?
Unless they're the ones doing it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, these days... Unless they're the ones doing it, that's what leads me to your last segment, that it's a huge conspiracy within a conspiracy because our government is covering up The fact that they're doing this and they're letting this rumor mill sort of churn that it's aliens when it's our government doing testing on us, as well as why, the big question in the last segment was why, how did those pictures of the Iraqi prisoners of war, how did they get leaked out?
Our government let them get leaked out.
For what reason?
Because Cheney is developing the oil pipeline in Alaska.
And they wanted to create an uprising, or an upscale... To what end?
Of the Iraqi people to destroy the pipeline from Iraq so they could make money.
It's all part of the... Oh, I... You know, but see, that means... Okay, so then there was a conspiracy to get in the war for a motive That didn't include weapons of mass destruction.
I mean, you were right when you said you're talking about a conspiracy.
Within a conspiracy, I just can't buy all of that and then get over there and at the cost of many men and women's lives, our U.S.
citizens and others, some others, but mostly us, in order to get in there and then perpetrate some further wild fraud so some pipeline is destroyed so that we can go and explore in Alaska.
Oh, come on.
Yeah, that's gotta get a little deep for any of you.
Wildcard Line, you are on the air.
Good morning.
Good morning.
Gosh, it's been such a very long time since I was able to talk with you.
Well, here you are on the air.
Where are you?
My name is Beverly, and I'm in Glendale Heights, Illinois, and I'm trying to shut off this radio!
Yeah, just turn it off, Beverly.
I'm trying!
Don't be sorry, just turn it off.
Anyway, first of all, You are born on my mother's birthday.
June 17th.
Right.
And I believe you were born in 1945.
That's right.
Which makes you a rooster like me.
Your wife, Ramona, has very long hair.
So do I. My father... Where are we headed here?
Well, I'm trying... Well, first, before it goes any farther, I called one time and told you about taking arnicated oil for your back.
Were you ever able to find it because I can't find it?
No, my back is quite some bit better with very few exceptions, thank you.
And the reason for that is very simple.
I lost a lot of weight.
About 60 pounds total.
And when your back has to carry around that much less weight, I can assure you it smiles more frequently.
It makes a gigantic difference in your back.
So, there you are.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hi, Art.
Turn your radio off, please.
It is off.
All right, excellent.
Yes, who is this?
Hi, this is Anonymous from Chicago.
Anonymous?
Yeah.
Why Anonymous?
I have an interesting story for you that I haven't shared.
It must be told anonymously, so they won't get you.
Okay, go ahead.
Several years ago, I had an experience with a friend of mine.
We were both interested in UFOs and we were up late one night and went to bed about 1 and I was kind of inviting this experience because I was very curious about it for a long time now.
Good, bad, or indifferent.
And for better or worse, I finally got to sleep about 3 or 4 in the morning and had an experience where I was with a being, let's say, that looked kind of leathery brown, large head, kind of like turtle skin, and it was basically asking me about the sexual experience, and there was another male human present, and I can't believe it was blurry.
And I said, you know, I am kind of consenting to this, and I will, you know, go along with this, but they asked if I mind if this other person was there, and I said no.
So they politely told this person, you know, whatever, and I don't really... there were some other details that I couldn't remember, but the next day I was so excited about it, it was so weird that I couldn't really tell anybody about it except for a friend of mine, an uncle, He's a relative of mine, and I called him up the next day, and we got together that evening for dinner, and I said, you know, I've got to tell you about something, and he cut me off.
And we got distracted, and he says, you know, I've got to tell you something.
Last night, he couldn't get to sleep, and he had a dream that I was with him, and that I was going to have a sexual experience with an alien, and he was telling me not to do it.
Well, that must have just laid you back.
I mean, what you thought was a dream suddenly gets confirmed by the other party there.
Wow.
It was unbelievable because, you know, I just couldn't wait to tell him and then he goes ahead and tells me and he regurgitates the dream right up into the point where he was that other person in the dream when I said, I don't want this other person present.
Yes.
And when So I didn't tell him anything.
He told me the whole thing.
And I said, so what happened when, you know, you told me not to do it?
He said that the being there told him that because he was upset and said that, you know, he's not going to do it.
He'll, you know, he'll just meet you out here.
And then he was brought into another area and was by himself for a little bit.
And then he said, I came out sometime later and then we left together.
And so, I mean, it was just absolutely mind-blowing.
Well, alright, thank you very much.
Look, he sounds exactly like one of the thousands of emails that I have had on this subject.
And when I say thousands, I really mean that.
I was just simply overwhelmed.
So I guess it is fair to say that This phenomenon, whatever it is, this snatching of people, is certainly sexually and reproductively oriented.
It certainly would be interesting to know to what end, to know what we are producing, to know whether we are the beneficiaries of some good act, or whether something is going on that ultimately the human race will be horrified by.
when we discover what the ultimate goal was.
But right now, we know nothing.
We have the edges of knowledge about this experience, like this man just said.
These abductions, these taking of humans, we have just only the very edge of it.
We're learning more and more, but we really don't know what the ultimate purpose of it all is, do we?
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello, this is Chris.
How are you?
I'm okay, Chris.
Only a little time before the top of the hour, but what have you?
Let's see, well, it's not called abduction, it's called temporary detainment.
Temporary detainment, huh?
Yes.
Have you heard of an individual named Bashar?
No.
Go on your computer.
He's a hybrid, 175,000 years in the future, who came back in time and has been speaking with us through a trans-channeling process for about Yeah, I'm not a big fan of channeling.
Not because I don't think it exists, because it very well may.
It's as likely as any other phenomena of its type.
It's just that channeling is so easily picked apart, you know, because it seems to come out, I mean, out of the mouths of babes, that sort of thing.
Out of the mouths of others, through the brain, into the conscious typewriter of somebody who puts together channeled work.
I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I'm just saying that there's so much room for misunderstanding about the material.
From the high desert, this is Coast to Coast AM.
Nights in white satin, never reaching the end.
Is fluoride damaging your health and dumbing down your children?
With these eyes before Just what the truth
I guess is fluoride damaging your health and dumbing down your children and what?
Oh Oh
To talk with our film call the wildcard line at area The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
line is area code 775-727-1222. To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free
at 800-825-5033. From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
International callers may reach Art by calling your in-country Sprint Access number,
pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
From coast to coast, and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM, with Art Bell.
Man, you ought to see the pass class I'm getting.
Poor Art, everything going wrong.
Oh, nonsense.
This is what live radio is all about.
Believe me, it's what it's all about.
It's what makes it fun.
That's why television is not so much fun, because nothing ever goes wrong when you're pre-taped and you can edit everything.
James from Alberta, Canada writes, something strange just happened across the internet.
You lost your connection with Bud.
Mere seconds later, my whole system lost its resources and locked up.
Three other friends reported the same thing at the same time.
Thought you might want to know.
William in New Mexico says, aren't all the planets and stars and moon are in the wrong place in the sky?
Seriously.
Their positions are way off from where they ought to be.
Something's going on big time out there and no one seems to notice, or... Art, I'm totally enthralled with tonight's show.
Keep up the great interviews, you know.
Anyway, nonsense, look.
That's why live talk radio is so cool, and live talk radio, the last bastion really of live period, is so cool.
So operating on the premise that Bud's telephone may indeed have needed charge time during the break that's about to ensue, I will call him back.
It will have had a little charge time, and we'll see if we can conclude this interview.
Or did somebody wait until just the right moment and step in?
Once again, Bud Hopkins.
Bud, it was very dramatic.
When we got cut off, it just went... I know.
Just right at a critical moment.
The CIA is everywhere, what can I say?
Never rule it out.
Anyway, so where were we?
What I did is I took a couple of calls, as you might imagine, they were from abductees until the top of the hour and decided to let your phone rest, but they were abductees.
You know, all their stories, and people have varying abilities to tell stories in either believable or unbelievable ways, but they were abductees.
So, any idea how widespread the real phenomena might be?
I think it's extraordinarily widespread, and that's a long, complex subject to get into, but as I said earlier, I think that we are only hearing from the tip of the iceberg because most people who
have these experiences
uh...
only remember the partially and somehow have found ways to explain the more
but what i would like to to ask if is there an eight hundred number i could call you
if we have another phone problem here
not not one that's not uh...
uh... totally uh... and patch it in I mean, every line is ringing here, so I wouldn't begin to know where to do that.
What I can do is briefly call you back and try and get the evil cell phone number and we can finish it up there.
If we could do that off... Yeah.
Off mic, okay.
Very good.
At any rate, no, I just think that the numbers are extreme.
This is the point about the Part of the book we call, Theme, the existence of these sorts of transgenic beings that seem to be one of the ultimate products of the whole phenomenon operating in the real world.
Transgenic beings?
One of the things, one of the cases which is extremely interesting involves a A woman who, as a young girl, was approached in a pizza parlor with some of her friends and asked by this man who seemed to be a normal-looking human, would she like a summer job?
And she said, yes, she would.
And he said, fine.
He would pick her up at her home the next day at 2 o'clock and take her for a job interview.
She's not sure that she ever told him her name or where she lived.
And when she told her mother this man was going to come and pick her up, her mother said, wonderful, fine.
There was no sense that the mother, who was ordinarily very protective, would have ever, under any normal circumstances, allowed this child to get in the car with somebody who she didn't know anything about.
But the man showed up, she got in the car, and the minute she got in the car with him, she felt extremely, extremely strange.
She said, I felt tiny.
And she had trouble explaining this to me.
Did you say tiny?
Tiny.
As if she had shrunk somehow, or her soul had shrunk or something.
She felt obviously very intimidated.
But this man proceeded, as he drove her to this interview, quote unquote, he proceeded to tell her about her entire life, including what she had done the day before, which was actually the first time she'd had sexual intercourse.
He told her about events that occurred to her, involving her parents, the death of a grandparent, etc.
All kinds of things which she never told anyone.
The whole thing led into an interview, so-called, in an empty office where there was no furniture.
There was nothing that suggested there was any kind of a business going on.
Nothing was explained.
About what the job would be.
The story gets more and more and more strange.
But the next thing is that this woman, a 16-year-old at the time, feeling very much under this man's control, gets back in the car with him and is driven to a field where there is a landed UFO.
She is left in the car while this man goes to the UFO.
Um, which she is seeing as a round glass house.
That's extremely strange.
This is the way she remembered it consciously.
And suddenly, uh, these small gray figures come out and apparently an abduction took place at that point.
There's far more to this story.
I'm just giving a bare outline.
But the wildest thing about this is that I have two other cases which I go into in the
book which involve a similar kind of quasi-job interview, which is not that at all, but which
seemed to be a preliminary setup leading up to an abduction as if the strange, semi-normal
human being was a sort of contact person to facilitate this experience, even though these
strange beings looked very, very human, they were able to control their subjects and read
their minds at every point.
But if these transgenic beings exist now on Earth, shouldn't this be something that could
perhaps be confirmed through genetic study.
Or would it be such a complex thing that even a good geneticist might not notice the minor little changes?
Well, you're absolutely right that it should be something that could be discerned Exactly, if we could get samples from these people.
And you may be familiar, Art, with a very interesting case in Australia that Bill Chalker looked into, where a hair, a long blonde hair, was left behind after an encounter that had a sexual component, very definitely, between an abductee and a What are these transgenic beings?
And the hair has been analyzed, and it is generally regarded by the scientists who have been looking into this, and this is Bill Chalker's case, so I'm not talking about this from any first-hand position, although I will be in Australia at the end of this month to give lectures, so I will meet him there.
But at any rate, the genetic makeup of this A particular being seen in the hair is extremely unusual and would suggest something that's not totally earthly.
Really?
Now, I know I hadn't heard a word about that, but... Well, this case is a remarkable case, but the point is that to get samples from these beings, of course, is a difficult job, but the The point is that abduction, as it would seem, and as we've understood up until this point, was something where the aliens sort of dropped into our world from whatever their world might be, and took some of us from it, and did these various procedures upon them, taking skin samples, sexual cells, and so forth, and then returned them.
What we're now learning is that there seem to be beings who are, at least some of the time, permanent residents here.
I shouldn't say permanent residents, but they're residents of our world at least some of the time, and they have the abilities, for instance, to apparently dematerialize and pass through walls.
Things that we associate totally with UFO occupants.
And some of these are our enablers for other abductions.
Exactly.
And these are some of the most bizarre cases.
They're certainly the most bizarre cases that I have ever presented in print, and some of them I've known about for years, but lots of material I haven't presented because I have felt that I could present the material That seemed to be acceptable on some level, and put the rest of it on the back burner.
Yeah, too wild for the times?
Too wild for the times, in other words, yeah.
And as I get on in years, and as the phenomenon becomes more and more accepted by researchers and by people in the psychological fields, the mental health fields, and mainstream scientists, as more and more people I'm beginning to take this seriously.
I've just come forward with some of the more bizarre cases that have been, let's say...
Well, but you know, America's still kind of Victorian compared to a lot of the rest of the world with regard to, for example, sex.
Yes.
Very Victorian.
And I know we feature ourselves as free spirits, but we really are quite a Victorian nation, kind of prudes.
And so we're just now getting to the point, or just barely getting to the point, where this kind of material could be included.
And I would see why you wouldn't include it in earlier books.
It would just go so far over the top that it simply wouldn't be accepted.
Well, you know, when I wrote my first book on the subject, Missing Time, which was published 23 years ago, I was aware that during abductions people were passed through closed windows or walls or whatnot, or through the windshields of cars.
But I did not include that in the book, simply because I just finessed the whole issue, simply because I knew it would not be acceptable.
I went with the evidence that would be acceptable, and just kept that for future books.
So then, what we're talking about right now really isn't new, it's just newly in print.
That's the point.
It's material, some of these cases, I have been looking into for many, many years ago.
The case I just mentioned about the woman with the very bizarre quote-unquote job interview and so forth, those three job interview cases that I deal with in the book, three different people, are cases that I looked into almost 20 years ago.
That's amazing.
Is there any indication Well, that again is a very hard question to answer because you only hear about what you hear about.
are increasing or are they decreasing or just is there a very steady
amount of reporting well that that again is a very hard question to answer
because you only hear about what you hear about and uh... and and if we're talking about the tip of the
iceberg from a hundred here
actually uh... i uh... have been looking into some abduction cases very
recently that occurred within the past
three months uh... i don't
It's very hard for me to tell whether there is momentum building or whether the whole thing is rather steady.
I don't really know.
I don't have a clear fix on that.
Whenever we do a show of this kind, but I inevitably get a lot of people call up and one of the questions they'll ask is, look, I would like to be abducted.
How do I go about it?
I usually ask these people why they would wish for something of this sort, but people have their motivations.
Have you run into that?
Well, I mean, people do say that.
And of course, I agree with you.
I can't understand why they would subject themselves to what is inevitably traumatic.
I mean, just supposing you were Uh, driving your car, the engine stops, uh, the lights go out, there's a big thing above your car, and suddenly your whole body goes rigid and you cannot move.
Now, to say that you would not be panicked at that point is ludicrous.
You are going to be panicked.
Yeah, absolutely.
Uh, even though the panic might not be intended by the UFO occupants, that's going to be a natural human reaction.
Of course.
So anyway, uh, but, but there doesn't seem to be any way to wish oneself into... No, no relationship between what you want and what happens.
We have none of the cards in our hands.
And there's every indication that it follows family bloodlines.
It follows generations.
Absolutely.
That seems to be pretty clear-cut.
There should be a hint.
There should be a hint there.
Here we go again.
Oh, here we go again.
Alright, well hopefully Bud will hang his phone up and we'll pick it up after the bottom of the hour break, which is coming up very shortly.
We'll just do the very best we can, let him charge that up between now and then.
So on the one hand, we know so much about abductions, but we know so little about why.
So very little about why it's occurring and that's the answer that we've got to have.
I mean we really don't know.
Some people, in fact the majority, will say they've had wonderful experiences.
I should ask Bud about this.
A lot of people just say they have wonderful experiences.
But I wonder if that's a part of what is given to these people as a suggestion.
Hypnotic Suggestion, along with the block, that they not remember nor talk about it, but if they do remember, they had a wonderful time.
That's something worth exploration.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello.
Hi there.
Hi.
You're kind of an interim little caller here while we wait for Bud at the bottom of the hour.
What's up, sir?
Well, he kind of touched on this.
I had a question about, it said that it was uh... not bloodline but it was you know he's got all this information and so did some other people have written on the subject yes um... i i want to know have they looked into i mean how many of these people were female how many were male how many were blue-eyed blonde-haired uh... the ethnicity of those individuals and what kind of conclusions could be drawn from that rather than the speculation that you know this is
Apparently evil by nature, possibly, or something that, you know, the government has conjured up.
That if he's got all this information... I would like all the answers to all those questions myself, and Bud has researched, over now, 700 cases, so I would guess he would be able to answer questions of that sort, and I will indeed... I'll ask him.
Do you have any experience at all in this area?
Well, not really.
I mean, I've...
I've been a boy.
I've been interested in the paranormal, and just listening to this program tonight, it seems that even though he's only scratched the surface as far as abductees, that, you know, have they checked the lineage from 1948?
I mean, I've heard of stories that go back into the 1800s, but, you know, are any of these people interrelated?
Are they connected in some fashion that, you know, may have Well, you know, I'll tell you this.
the aliens that are doing the abductions and obviously they must be gathering information
and to what end we may never know that but maybe we could draw some conclusions.
Well, you know, I'll tell you this, until I know whether what's being done is for our
good or perhaps not for our good, I'm not going to do it.
I'm going to assume that it's not benign.
In other words, on the side of safety, I'm going to assume, and I would think that most people would, that there may be something not so good in this process for human beings.
And I could be totally wrong, and I hope that I am totally wrong, but I think the safe assumption would be that there's possible danger here, wouldn't you think?
Well, yeah, I mean, I would probably tap that as, you know, my conclusion on the onset of it, but if I want to, you know, drift further and start thinking about the gathered information that has been, you know, derived by other individuals in some of these reports and, you know, what are these similarities?
All right, let me get Bud back on the line and ask exactly that.
Through the night we go.
What a fascinating night.
i'm art bell i'm art bell
I'm living in the forest of a dream.
I know that life is not as it would seem.
I must believe in something, so I'll make myself believe it.
This night will never go away.
To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
line is area code 775-727-1222. To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free
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International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country Sprint Access
number, pressing Option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
From coast to coast, and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
The night is not as it would seem.
Or ain't that a fact?
My intermittent guest this night is Bud Hopkins.
And in a moment, with luck, we'll get right back to him.
In a night full of mystery, here's Bud once again.
Bud, welcome back.
Glad to be back, and I hope I can hang in there.
I hope so.
We've transacted the cell phone number, so if necessary, we'll try that.
In the meantime, I did have a gentleman, I took a quick call, and he said, look, ask Bud, aren't there some things we can sink our teeth into, like how many males versus females?
How many blue-eyed versus brown-eyed people?
How many particular types of people are there?
Any stats you can break down in 700 cases or more?
We used to get a preponderance of females to males, but that's changed, and I think it's now pretty much 50-50.
The reason that it happened that way is because women found it easier to make confessions of weird experiences than men did.
Uh, the macho factor being what it is.
So I think that now it's pretty, uh, pretty even now in terms of, of, uh, racial makeup, uh, all of these other issues.
Uh, it, it, that again is really all over the map.
I mean, I have every kind of person you can imagine, every racial group, uh, uh, sexual alignments, whatever you want to mention, uh, educational level and so forth.
It seems to be really very broadly distributed.
I don't know that there's anything that we've been able to see that would seem to favor one group.
Boy, trying to get your hooks into this one way or the other is really rough, isn't it?
Yes, it is.
Well, it's because, you know, as I say, we only know what we hear about, and of course the majority... To give you an example, the higher up the socioeconomic scale, A person might be, the less likely that person is to report these experiences to somebody.
Because they have a lot at stake.
True of crimes committed against women as well, same deal.
Exactly.
You know, as I've always said, I've dealt with a MacArthur Grant winner, you know, the genius Grant.
dealt with police officers, colonel in the army, people, psychiatrists and so forth,
and just some just plain folks.
The just plain folks are the ones who are more willing to come forward and perhaps take
the risks of using their names and so on.
The more secretive people are the people who have a great deal at stake.
Until we understand that the intent of all of this is benign, and we don't understand
that now, don't we have to treat it as though it's obviously a potential danger to us?
Absolutely.
I don't think there's any doubt that we have to look at it as a potential danger, because as I have said many times before, We may be the Aztecs, and they may be the conquistadors from Spain.
They have the techniques and the technologies.
We don't know what their goals are.
And let's always remember that the Aztecs, at least some of them, welcomed the Spanish as gods, as saviors.
Well, speaking of that, there's also this.
But a lot of people who have these experiences say, look, I'm going to tell you about an experience, but I'm not going to tell you it was horrifying because, frankly, It was either arousing or enjoyable or I might even say it was a wonderful experience.
That's true and you know of course the basic problem in all of this is that people are only remembering certain pieces of many of their experiences if they remember them consciously and I've had I'm not saying that these experiences are horrific in In total, I mean, the people are made to feel comfortable.
They're sometimes made to feel extremely pleasant sensations.
They are returned to bed or their cars or wherever they were taken from, and they're made to feel that they're not being threatened and so forth, even though the trauma is there.
So each experience contains a very broad range of emotion, and a person may remember or may, for that matter, choose to remember.
The parts that were less frightening.
When did your most recent book come out?
Sight Unseen.
It came out in the fall of 2003.
How's it being read?
Well, I think it's been very well received.
The reviews have been very, very good.
But the problem is that the scientific community, which is a community I wish Would pay more attention to the book We haven't heard much from from them by way of response although the people who obviously are Mainstream scientists but are already interested in the subject have greeted the book with a great deal of respect but I was talking to my literary agent the other day and and she said that
UFO books are not being... there's not a lot of buzz about them at this point because of
Iraq and the election and Rumsel, etc.
And all of the talk in the book field is about the election and the war.
You also suggest, though, that the UFO community itself seems to be creating obstacles for
mainstream science to accept the whole thing.
That's true.
I mean, unfortunately, our field, as you know, probably better than most of us, contains within it people who are obsessive about one aspect or another of this, who have all of the answers, who would be gurus or leaders of a sect, people who ...are just obsessed with conspiracy theories, some of which are so beyond the pale, not worth discussing, and therefore we're so encumbered by these situations that scientists don't want to get mixed up with.
Well, how do you end up separating the wheat and the chaff yourself?
I mean, obviously you get a lot of reports, and you get a lot of people who call and talk to you, and how do you Make that brutal decision, or is it, after all these years, now easy for you?
Well, I think it's easier all the time, of course, because the symptoms of egomania or mental illness or publicity seeking or whatever, all of those things sort of emerge pretty quickly when you're dealing with somebody.
And we're really not, although we do run into it, The issue of hoaxing, but luckily in the abduction field, it's very, very rare.
Hoaxes, of course, turn up all the time with UFO photographs and cop circles, but not here, because you're really saying something very private about your own inner self, rather than creating a false artifact.
But I think that what we do run into, of course, are people who are mentally ill, and that's Well, that's the largest group of people we have to avoid.
Well, maybe the hardest, too.
Well, in some cases.
Some cases are pretty... people are pretty subtle, but an awful lot of these cases are pretty obvious.
The people seem pretty crazy.
I would imagine that, you know, we're doing this in very different ways, but the way you have to screen people who are calling from...
I knew that was coming.
You can almost tell the battery life.
You know what we'll do?
We're going to try him on a cell phone.
That's what we're going to try.
If he's remembered to turn it on.
We'll try it and it can't hurt.
Let's see here.
Let's see if it works.
We'll find out.
No, huh?
That didn't work.
Let me try it one more time.
That's odd that that didn't work.
This has been a very unusual night.
Very, very unusual night in a lot of ways.
Let me try it again.
Let's see what we get, if anything.
You have reached a number that has been disconnected or is no longer in service.
Oh, now that's on.
If you feel you have reached this recording in error, I'm very upset.
Please check the number or try your call again.
Can you hear me, sir?
I'm upset!
Try my number again!
We're sorry.
You're very sorry.
You have reached a number that has been disconnected or... Yeah, alright, alright, alright.
Alright.
Well, that's not gonna work.
But you know, all we've gotta do is get about five more minutes from Bud.
On his other phone.
The one that does work.
We're home free.
I must say though, maybe it's the telephone, but the way that this has been occurring has been rather odd indeed.
It's obviously a very sensitive subject.
At any rate, you certainly might want to check out Bud's latest book, and while he is not prolific in the terms of, you know, just knocking out one book after another, Sight Unseen is his latest And it's a good one, so I urge you to check it out.
All right, we'll give Bud one more try here.
Here we go.
Disconnected.
That's really weird.
I'll tell you, that's a strange one.
OK, we'll go back to the original phone here and see if we can get him for just another moment or so.
Let's see here.
Bud, are you there?
OK, the other phone, believe it or not, came up as a disconnected telephone, Bud.
What, my cell phone?
Cell phone, yeah.
Oh gosh, it's on.
It should work.
Well, I... We only have a few moments anyway.
Let's see what we can do.
Okay.
So I guess, you know, we're at sort of a summary point anyway with all of this.
Right.
And what do you think as a result of what you've written in your latest book?
I mean, is there any greater summary that we can now give the people about abductions in general, since you're of such a...
World-class guy on it.
Well, that they are first infinitely more widespread than anybody thinks, that the whole subject should be absolutely at the dead center of thinking of the scientific community, the mental health community, and the population as a whole, that the UFOs have the ability to create invisibility when they need to go through their operations, and that there are beings who are Occasionally operating here amongst us who are partially alien in nature.
These are really enormous issues to be faced and extremely radical.
They are.
And nobody's really facing them, are they, yet?
No, they're not.
And the scientific community is the worst here.
The mainstream scientific community, which simply will not look into it and has no idea of the range and depth and breadth of the evidence.
But where does a person who's been abducted, has missing time or whatever, and wants to find out what really happened to them, where does that person go?
Well, we have a website which is IntrudersFoundation.org.
Very easy to get to.
IntrudersFoundation.org.
They can contact us there.
There's information about how to get in touch with us through email.
uh... the numbers of people who were doing the work that that i'm doing in
and uh... david jacobson john carpenter john mack a number of other people doing
of a very very few unfortunately well you mentioned dr jacobs he's one of my favorite interviews
He's a wonderful guy.
Simply because I think he's reached a conclusion I share with him, and that is that until I know otherwise, these are not necessarily our friends.
Well, that has to be taken for granted.
Let's remember, the UFO occupants have been flying around here, certainly... You know what, bud?
We're about to disappear.
I'm going to thank you for a wonderful interview.
I knew it.
There you have it.
The end of Bud Hopkins for this night.
So at least I got to thank him for a great interview, and it was a very good interview despite the interruptions we made our way through.
Something's happening, and he's right about one thing.
All of the ruckus going on right now Which circles back to the first hour of the program.
The ruckus going on right now over the war and over our treatment of prisoners and the whole war thing in general has taken over just about every headline and every topic and ufology is going to fall into the place where I'm sure many On certain committees and in certain groups would like it to be and that's certainly away from the public's attention.
Totally.
So that certainly occurred.
That doesn't mean that it's not going on and for any of you who have really do have missing time I do recommend you follow Bud's Thoughts on the subject.
Intruders.org would be one possible avenue you've got.
In other words, what you've got to do is get to a researcher who will privately and reasonably help you find out what happened to you.
In the meantime, I would be more than happy to continue to receive information from all of you.
Those of you who have been abducted, whether it's had sexual content or not, I would be happy to I'll sort of continue to read your experiences and try and figure out where we go from here with this whole very complex problem.
I don't have the slightest idea.
Let's see if we can squeeze one caller in.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello.
Hi.
Hi, this is Kelly.
Hello Kelly, where are you?
I'm in Ohio.
Ohio, okay.
I just wanted to call and tell you about I was looking at your website a while back at pictures people do of shadow people, and I almost fainted because I saw a picture of these two figures that I used to see all the time when I was little.
Well, shadow people are another example of invisibility, or something that's right on the edge of invisibility.
They're particularly interesting because we can sort of only sort of see them, some people more than others, but still, we can only sort of see them.
They're virtually invisible otherwise, right?
Well, to me they look like TV snow.
Huh.
TV snow, huh?
You know what, like fuzzy.
Yes, I know exactly what you're talking about.
Yeah, they didn't have eyes or faces or anything, but they're, they're too, they're grimace looking figures.
And I saw them all the time growing up.
They'd be in my bedroom.
Well, your story is like many, many others.
And, uh, as you grew up, Did it begin to fade?
Did it begin to go away?
Yes, it did.
I don't know why.
Well, I think I do.
Thank you very much.
At least I think I have a clue.
I think that children, particularly small children and animals, see things that we don't see.
And I think, I know it's going to sound silly to you, but I think they see them because we haven't told them that they shouldn't see them yet.
Do you follow me?
In other words, society, I believe, inculcates into our young people increasingly as they grow up and they're able to communicate and understand the fact that these things really don't exist.
They just simply don't exist.
And so our brains, trying to make sense out of things that are nonsensical, Reject them in various ways, as if you had eaten a bit of something that disturbed your stomach, or you might write it off in a million different mental ways, but you've been inculcated so heavily with the fact that these things are not real.
that your brain automatically just simply cast them aside when they occur and you don't notice it but when you're young and when you haven't been told not see these things or that these things are not real you see them and then as you grow older and you better put this one in quotes wiser or more informed or should we say more brainwashed then You begin to reject these things.
Hence, they don't seem to be happening to you.
That doesn't mean they're not happening.
They still may well be happening.
It's just that, well, you don't think that it should be true anymore, so your brain finds a way to tell you that it's not true.
At any rate, it's been my honor to be with you on a Sunday evening.
It was fun with Bud Hopkins while it lasted, and it lasted just long enough.
From the high desert, I bid you A very good night and a good week ahead.
Good night.
Midnight in the desert Shooting stars across the sky This magical journey Will take us on a ride Midnight in the desert, and we're listening
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