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March 21, 2004 - Art Bell
02:53:00
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - John Lear - UFOs
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♪♪♪ ♪♪♪
♪♪♪ From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid
you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the world's prolific time zones.
We cover them all with this program called Coast to Coast AM.
I'm Art Bell and it's an honor to be here with you tonight.
As it is an honor to have the guest that I've got coming up right away.
That way we'll have a little more time at the back end to get some phone calls in.
This is an extraordinary man you're about to hear from.
His name is John Lear.
He's the son of Bill Lear, the daddy of the Learjet.
You know, the Learjet, right?
In fact, we're going to hear about some of that tonight, and all kinds of topics that, trust me, you're not expecting.
John Lear's quite a guy, and I'll tell you a little story.
Actually, it's the truth.
Back when I was doing a political talk show, Fifteen years ago?
Something like that.
I ventured for it at KWN in Las Vegas, and thought, you know, Cass is getting old.
You know, everybody talks about this all the time, and I just, I can't do it for another five hours tonight.
I used to do it five, even a six-hour show six nights a week, and I thought, I've got to have a break.
I've got to talk about something else.
This is driving me crazy.
And so that's when That's how all of this got started.
John is how it all got started.
I interviewed John Lear, and the audience just totally went berserk.
I mean, John's been investigating ufology probably longer than any ufologist I know.
John's been there a long, long time, out and back again.
I mean, he worked for, he'll tell you all about this, but you know, he flew big jets.
And a big, big gets.
And for a long time he couldn't talk.
He was fired once because of his discussion talk about UFOs.
He lost some jobs because of that.
And so, you know, even the hardiest, learn after a while that you open your mouth and you jeopardize your living.
And so you close your mouth for a while.
And he did for years, many years.
John has not said a word.
And we did a show here with John a few months ago.
Which was a smash hit.
Well, expect no less tonight.
He's really something.
In a moment, John Lear.
Here from Las Vegas, Nevada is John Lear.
John, welcome to the program.
Hi Art, and a special hello to my friends at the Fantastic Forum.
Now they know you're real.
You know, the Forum Pirates, for a long time, some doubted, John, that it really was you posting up there.
All that can end now.
You know, the last time you were on, John, you did the famous, I don't know, ten minute, whatever it was, disclosure thing.
I, of course, picked that off.
And I began affectionately calling it the Lear Test.
And so every time I'd get an advocate for disclosure on here, I'd play it for them.
Until finally, so many of them had heard it that they already had their answer formulated.
So I stopped.
But you absolutely got everybody's attention with that.
You know, I'm not reading your bio and what you're all about this time.
So instead, let's turn around this time.
You tell us about John Lear.
Okay.
I grew up in Santa Monica in the Pacific Palisades, but moved to Geneva, Switzerland when I was 12, and then went to the International School of Geneva for a few months, and then to a couple of boarding schools, one of which was La Rose.
Which is supposedly the School of Kings.
I didn't make the King part.
I moved back to the Balsaids and went to Chadwick Boarding School in the 10th grade and then University High and then I graduated from Santa Monica High and then moved back to Geneva and went back to Rosé for college prep.
What was it that was taking your family to Switzerland?
My dad had a lot of electronic business.
And a lot of airplane electronics that he wasn't too successful in selling to the American, United States Airlines.
And he went over to Europe to see if he could sell it to those airlines.
One concept he developed and built was the automatic landing of airplanes.
And the Caravelle, which was built by Sud Aviation in France, was the first airplane to land zero-zero.
And that had the Lear Autopilot.
And, of course, my dad sold that company in 1960.
What does land 00 mean?
No forward visibility and no ceiling.
I mean, you can't see anything.
The airplane just automatically lands itself and rolls out and all the pilot has to do is put on the brakes.
Was that the forerunner of ILS?
No, it used the ILS to do that.
Okay.
All right.
Fascinating.
That's what was taking him back and forth and moving us back and forth.
I went back to Geneva in 1960 and went back to that boarding school, but I didn't like that too much, so I went to work for my dad and my brother flying at Twin Beach that they had flying around for all these business deals.
Then in June of 1961, I had the Swiss aerobatic license and I was out doing aerobatics.
I made a slight miscalculation and crashed.
And I had pretty severe injuries.
I broke both legs in three places.
What did you crash in?
A Buecher Youngman.
It's a Spanish-built German biplane.
It was a beautiful little biplane.
You can see them occasionally around.
They're very rare biplanes.
But it was my fault.
I screwed up, but we try and profit from our mistakes.
I got a letter from General Jimmy Doolittle shortly after the accident, telling me about all the mistakes he had made, and all he did was try and profit from his mistakes.
I have that framed on my wall.
It's a two-page letter, and between it I have a picture of him taking off the B-25 off the Kitty Hawk carrier to bomb Tokyo.
I had the crash, and somehow I developed gangrene in both my legs and wounds.
was sent to the Lovelace Clinic in August of 1961.
Randy Lovelace, as you know, was a surgeon in 1947 at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base.
The Air Force sent him back to Albuquerque, where he was from, to establish the Lovelace Clinic.
He did some of the autopsies on the aliens that were recovered in Roswell.
Randy Lovelace was on the board of Lear Incorporated, my dad's company, and dad was on the board of the Lovelace Clinic.
It was interesting how close I was to what was going on, but didn't have the slightest idea.
Then I recovered and moved to West Los Angeles and worked selling sheet metal bending and then decided to go to the Art Center and study industrial design, which I did for about a year.
Then I went back to Geneva to to see my girlfriend and ended up getting married
and going back to work for my dad in Wichita, Kansas Who was now building the Learjet and I was director of PR
and But I loved working on things and I ended up working
graveyard shift bucking rivets on the chief's lodge number one
You know John if you know, I mean, how did your dad just decide?
well, I Mean where'd it come from?
We're going to build the Learjet.
I mean, where did that come from?
He built the Lear Star, which was a twin-engine airplane load star, Lockheed load star.
And he actually just modified the Lockheed load star into an executive transport.
And he made it go, you know, a few miles an hour faster, and it was very plush and everything.
And they built about 62 of them, but there was a lot of crashes.
And he got the idea to build a business jet in 1957 or 1958 and asked the board of directors for the money and they wouldn't give it to him because of all the problems they'd had with the Lear Star.
So he sold his stock and Lear Incorporated to Siegler.
It became Lear-Siegler.
And he formed the Swiss American Aviation Company to build the Lear Jet, which was going to be built in Switzerland because he thought there was great engineers And lots of materials, which he found out were wrong.
He spent about two years in Altenrhein in Switzerland trying to get it going, but it just didn't work.
And that's why I moved to Wichita, because there were engineers available, talent available, to get the thing moving.
Well, it sure moved.
Yeah, it did.
And I went there, I worked for PR, and I worked in PR.
The first flight was in October 1963.
I flew Chase in our Cessna 320 Skyknight, which of course couldn't keep up with the jet, but we got some pictures and it was really an exciting time.
Ah, it must have been a lot of fun.
But I wanted to fly more and I couldn't fly because I wasn't qualified as a test pilot, so I moved to Opa-locka, Florida and worked as the editor for an aviation news magazine called Aero News, which we moved out to El Segundo in California.
And that folded and I went to work as a flight instructor at Hawthorne Airport and then Van Nuys and was finally hired at the Flying Tiger line to fly their Learjet.
And this is in 1964.
There was another guy there, an old pilot that was actually the chief pilot of the executive division who I worked for.
And in November of 65, he crashed with seven people on board just outside of Palm Springs.
And it was a really terrible accident.
It was entirely his fault, not the airplane's fault.
But anyway, I ended up running that part of the executive... So you flew the Learjet for how long, John?
Well, let's see.
I got checked out in 1964, so I haven't flown it recently, but that's 40 years.
I had 1800 hours in the airplane, which is not a lot.
There are Learjet pilots around 15 and 20,000 hours.
Still in all, I would imagine the executives that got to fly with you wouldn't have been exactly unhappy to hear that John Lear was flying their Lear.
You could say that.
Yeah, pretty cool.
And then on May 23, 1966, Hank Beard, who was Chief of Engineering Flight Test, Rick King, a factory pilot, John Zimmerman, an NAA observer, and myself left Wichita Municipal Airport And we flew around the world, setting a world speed record.
We made 17 stops.
And the total lap time was 65 hours and 38 minutes.
Now that kind of thing, John, has just got to be flat out fun.
I know work, but I mean really fun.
For anybody who loves flying, trying to set a world speed record, that's right up there.
You know, I had never been around the world.
I knew a little bit about it.
But it was exciting for me.
There's only three pilots, so you were either sleeping or flying, which was great.
We went to all these different places.
It was a really exciting flight.
I know you've won up the Reno Air Show.
You've been in the Reno Air Show a lot.
In 1967 I raced the sport biplane class.
In 1968 I raced the Douglas B-26, which was a medium bomber.
It was the largest airplane ever raced at Reno.
I came in fifth out of six airplanes having passed a North American P-51, at which point I understand that there were three fighter pilots that committed suicide off the back of the grandstand.
Having a bomber pass the plane is just a no-no.
Yeah, so all your life flying, really?
Yeah.
Are you flying now?
You're not, are you?
No.
How much do you miss it?
Pardon?
Not at all.
Oh, not at all?
Really?
I'm tired of it.
It's a pain in the butt.
I thought that never left your blood, John.
No, no.
I'm tired of worrying about the runway incursions.
I'm tired about I'm glad I'm done with it.
It's for younger guys and I just don't think that fast anymore and it's just a constant struggle not to mess up.
It's a gigantic jump from where we are right now to what we're going to talk about and we need some kind of bridge for those who are just tuning in tonight and inevitably there are many since there are millions, John.
They're not going to know your connection to ufology.
In a nutshell, what is your connection to ufology?
I mean, obviously you're a mainstream pilot, a test pilot, you've been in aviation all your life.
Where does ufology jump into the middle of that?
I was always kind of interested in it, but I didn't think it was real.
As a matter of fact, there's a letter that circulates on the internet that John Andrews, who was the Vice President of Testers Corporation, who made the F-117 stealth fighter, he and I used to communicate a lot.
As a matter of fact, I'm the one that gave him the original information on the F-117.
And we were talking about UFOs one day, and I said, forget it, John, it's not real.
And that letter is somewhere on the Internet.
But what happened, and I was interested in it, but there just didn't seem to be any evidence.
I walked into a friend's house in 1984 or 1985 and there was a book called Missing Time by Bud Hopkins.
I read that book and I knew that that was real.
It sent shivers up my spine and that's what started everything.
I was flying out of New York at the time, commuting to New York, and the first thing I did was call up Bud Hopkins and go over to his place.
It was kind of funny, because I came off a transatlantic flight at JFK, and I had made an appointment to go to his apartment.
I showed up with my flight bag and a huge suitcase, and he said, what's going on here?
How long do you think you're going to be staying?
And I said, you know, just a few minutes.
I said, I just came to the airport and there's no other place to put this.
I ended up staying a few hours and having dinner with him and his family.
He did an attempted regression.
He said, for this kind of interest that you have, there had to be something.
You have to be involved somehow.
We didn't find anything then and never did.
I have my suspicions, but that's what started it all.
it all and then or i just you know it was so interesting one lead after the
other and uh...
and uh... one thing i uh... the pwc five eighty six eighty seven i had to have an
operation on my foot and while i was recovering enough flying i got in my
truck and drove around uh... south
western united states interviewing and talking to people you know who wouldn't
talk on the phone and that famous bernie edwards there at uh...
her career for space case of the by then you're really beginning
to get interested Yeah, I hooked up with Linda Howe and Albuquerque and we drove together down to Roswell and I met with Clifford Stone and it was just a very interesting period.
And how did Clifford impress you, by the way?
Very, you know, very spooky.
I mean, I walked into, you know, I had known him.
I walked into his house there and at that time he looked out the back and he said, see that black car?
And this black car sped away.
They've always got me under surveillance.
And just, you know, little things like that happening all the time.
Still, though, there wasn't anything direct for you.
I mean, all those years flying, and you never saw anything?
Only once that I remembered much later, and that was in 1966.
I was making a A long, leisurely afternoon descent into Los Angeles from back east and over Palm Springs.
I had started my descent out of 41,000 and I guess I was like 35 or 34,000 descending and from, I'm going westbound, from left to right, this object went in front of the airplane and I just told the co-pilot, I said, look, that's an M2F2, the lifting body.
Right.
And only years later, I mean, that was 66, maybe 25 years later, did I realize how ridiculous that was to think that an M2F2 would be going across the major flight path into Los Angeles.
And when I think about it now, I said, what could I have possibly been thinking?
I actually got on the ground and called Hank Baird, who was Chief of Engineering Flight Test, and said, you know, made the casual remark, hey, I saw an M2F2 today.
So that was the one thing I saw.
The only thing I saw until I was out in the desert and saw the saucer at Groom Lake.
You're going to be commenting on a lot of things tonight that I don't see how you could know unless you had a dialogue of some sort with extraterrestrials.
I mean, some of this stuff, how are you going to know it?
I mean, I suppose we'll get to that as we go through it, but it seems like you would have to have almost first-hand knowledge of the aliens, their intent, their motivations, what they're all about, to know some of this.
Interesting, but I don't know of any ETs.
You don't know of any ETs?
I know of ETs.
I don't know any personally.
For example, we're going to discuss mankind being an experiment.
That's knowledge that... How did you come to know this?
How do you know that?
Well, first of all, on this, you have to cut to the chase right from the beginning.
To understand what's going on, you have to Understand that in the beginning, the moon did not spring forth from the Pacific Ocean.
The moon was not passing by Earth and captured by its gravity and locked into rotational lock.
In the beginning, the moon was towed here from somewhere else and placed by a very large machine into orbit around the Earth in rotational lock.
Okay, well see, that's a really good one right there and an example of exactly what I'm talking about.
Uh, that's sort of a creation-like statement, isn't it?
How the moon got here.
Didn't bounce out of the Pacific.
They don't match up.
It was towed here.
Towed here.
That's a very creation-like statement, isn't it?
so in a moment we'll ask where that knowledge comes from Abunullah, Abunullah, may he ask about any knowledge
Abunullah, do you know that the heart of this horse lies a deep desire to marry her?
Abunullah, do you know that the heart of this horse lies a deep desire to marry her?
White bird, dreams of the aspen tree With his giant beak, turning gold
But the white bird just sits in her cage, roaming on.
White Bird must fly or she will die.
White Bird must fly or she will die.
Sunset's on the horizon.
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From coast to coast, and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
The moon was towed here.
God, that's a great statement.
Great.
We're gonna explore it in a moment with John Lear, son of Bill Lear, who, uh, Of course brought us all the Learjet, or at least some of us.
I'm Art Bell, and in the middle of the night, Coast to Coast AM underway once again.
The moon was towed here.
Uh, John, okay, you're back on.
That's a heck of a thing to say, the moon was towed here, and it implies I guess what I'd like to know is how have you come to believe this to be so?
Okay, let me back up just a second and talk about the experiment.
When Lazar worked at the test site, he read documents that Mankin was an experiment and that religions were created by the people who were making the experiment to give us a set of rules and regulations to live by the Ten Commandments, the Koran.
So we wouldn't hurt ourselves during this experiment.
Okay, so this information really came from what Bob read at Area 51.
That was what started me on figuring out the experiment.
Gotcha.
Then I read that both Democritus and Anaxagoras taught that there was a time when the earth was without moon.
Aristotle also taught that.
He taught that Arcadian Greece, before being inhabited by the Hellenes, Had a population of Aborigines that occupied the land before there was a moon in the sky above the earth.
And for this reason they were called the Proselytes.
And then there was a time when there was two moons, and of course now there's only one.
So that started me if there was in recorded history of man, there was a time when there was no moon there.
Then I read the book Ringmakers of Saturn and Norman Berggren started talking about the machines big enough to put the moon into orbit around the Earth.
But anyway, presumably then our government is well aware, through whatever means they had to get this information, extraterrestrial bodies, contact, all the rest of it, Somehow, our government is fully aware of what humans are.
We're an experiment.
They have to know all that, yes.
And when you say government, it's not congressmen and senators and government that you can see.
It's the other guys.
The other guys?
The secret government.
The secret government.
And you believe that the secret government manipulates this information.
It's not shared with our politicians.
It's shared perhaps with some presidents to some degree or not.
No, not with presidents.
Not with presidents.
As we discussed before on the levels of security clearances, as far as I know there's 38 levels above top secret.
Now the first 28 are top secret crypto.
The last 10 are names like Umbra Ultra, the top one being Majestic.
Now the President of the United States has like top secret Crypto 17.
He doesn't get to know very much for two reasons.
Is the intelligence community has always hated elected or appointed officials and they don't vet them.
True enough.
And number two, there's no reason for him to know it.
He's in office for four, eight years.
He doesn't need to know that kind of stuff.
John, is the president aware that he does not hold the top security clearance?
No, everybody that has a clearance thinks the one he has is the top.
Is the top, yeah.
That would absolutely make sense to me.
And so to have knowledge of this, that mankind is an experiment, you would have to be at that top 10 level?
Majestic.
Majestic.
So the whole majestic thing, the majestic papers that went around the web, around the world, MJ-12, real?
Yes.
And like I say, for the people who say, what's your source for that?
My source now passed away.
Was General James H. Doolittle.
He was not an MJ-12 himself, but he was heavily right there in the middle of it all.
He wrote a biography called I Could Never Be So Lucky, and I have never read a more brutally honest book, and I searched it for the slightest hint of what he was really involved in the later part of his life.
It wasn't there.
Can you tell us, almost verbatim, what the General told you?
He didn't tell me.
Now, here's how it happened.
When Moore and Shandera came out with those Eisenhower briefing papers, I wanted to know whether it was real or not.
I knew I had to get to Jim Doolittle, but he was retired living in Carmel, California, and I knew I couldn't do it.
He and his wife Jo were very, very close to my grandmother and my grandfather and my mom and dad.
Now, my grandmother and grandfather had long since passed away.
We're talking about 1989, 1990.
But mom was still very much alive and I approached her and I said, ìLook, I need some information.
I want to know.
If this is real, and she said, okay, well, how can I help you?
I said, I need you to call Jimmy and just play it like this.
Say, hi, Jimmy, this is William.
What's going on?
I haven't talked to you in a while.
Then say, you know, Jimmy, John has gotten involved in something and I'm not too excited about it, but I need to know one thing.
Is the Majestic 12 real?
Now, it took me about three or four months to get Mom to do that, but she finally worked up her courage, and one morning called, and what he said was, yes, Moya, but I can't say anything more about it.
Your mom's all right, John.
She was a trooper.
Yeah, she really was.
That's what did it for me, because everything hinged on those papers.
Are they real or not?
Sure.
And as far as I'm concerned, they were real.
So he confirmed it.
The General confirmed it to your mom.
All right.
What do you know?
If we are an experiment, I guess I would like to know the nature of this experiment.
Wouldn't we all?
Yeah, as much as you do know.
I mean, there must be a little more than we are an experiment.
Nothing to motive, nothing to... What Bob read was the experiment is with the soul.
We are referred to as containers.
The aliens referred to this as containers.
That's all.
Just containers.
They didn't want the containers to hurt themselves while this experiment was going on.
Now, I've given it a lot of thought, and I cannot imagine what the experiment is.
Or whether it's succeeding or failing or still in judgment.
Correct.
Why was it Decided, I wonder, that we need a moon.
Anything on that?
Yes, and what happened is Richard Hoagland led me to this, because when I saw his tape about the Earth-Mars-Moon connection, and talked about the Lunar Orbiter 384M photo showing the tower on the moon, directly in the center of the moon, in the Sinus Medi, stretching six miles high, on a tripod, And a cube on top, a mile on each side.
I wondered to myself, what could that be for?
What could be an antenna?
Well, first of all, it's got to be an antenna, and it's pointed directly at Earth.
Are they trying to record our TV programs?
And I thought, no, that's unlikely.
These people are millions of years ahead of us.
Probably what they're doing is sending, transmitting, and receiving souls.
When a person dies, they retract the soul into this machine.
When a person is born, they send this soul, or transmit the soul.
And this has been going on for, you know, however long that thing's been there.
Wow!
So you're saying that's how souls get here, that's how souls are retrieved, they're actually received and transmitted from a virtual antenna on the moon?
Oh, that's some concept, John!
Wow!
That's going to take a while to sink in.
That's really something, John.
Now that's why mariners are called lost souls, because if you die underwater, for some reason they can't retract the soul from underwater.
And it's lost.
Frequency's not low enough, John.
We can talk to subs if you get the frequency low enough.
Oh, that's a trip.
All right.
So then that's the transmitter and the receiver, but there must be a processing center.
In other words, something's driving that, or it's a tool of a larger machine, right?
Well, it could be.
I think it's all part of that cube on top of the tripod that sits on top of the tripod.
I don't know.
I know this is that we cannot take advantage of lessons we've learned in a previous lifetime because that information is short circuited.
Now, some people can access that, but it's extremely rare.
For some reason, we're not allowed to profit by the mistakes That our soul made in a previous lifetime.
Yes, it seems so unfair, but we don't understand the structure of it all.
But yes, I've always thought of that as so unfair.
And if what you're saying is true, then that will explain some other things we're going to talk about.
So you know nothing beyond...
I don't even know where to go here.
Richard Hoagland, of course, pointed out a number of very large, very large structures on the moon.
By the way, Richard's taken a lot of really big heat lately.
I guess you're aware of that, huh?
Yeah.
You know, no single person has done more to expose the NASA cover-up than Richard Hoagland.
And, you know, they have various government guys out there that are really gunning for him.
We have one on the Fantastic Forum.
We call him Yankee Yo-Yo because All he does is bad-mouth Richard Oakland, and Richard Oakland's the good guy.
Richard is either somebody you love or hate, and I speak now of the audience.
When he's on, they either love him or they hate him.
There's no in-between with Richard.
Well, he has inspired me.
I mean, when I saw that video of the 84m, you know?
You know, people say he's arrogant.
Well, maybe he is, but he certainly has a lot of information.
And I certainly have some disagreements with him, but I don't go around bad-mouthing him on the internet.
No, his passion is evident to all.
Detractors and fans alike, his passion is absolutely evident.
I have disagreements with him, too.
I've not seen a lot of the things that he has seen or tried to point out to me.
to which he tells me i have two-dimensional vision which is probably true
uh... so he's he's an incredible man and this means
that these artifacts in the things he talked about the things you're talking
about now they really are
on the moon uh... but that bubbles going to get burst pretty soon if we're
keeping it secret
uh... it's not going to be secret very much longer because you know other
countries are getting ready to go to the moon john then what
uh... i doubt it'll happen really
Bye.
Really?
There'll be something to... You know, at this point, I'd like to tell you what heroes our astronauts are.
These guys, the Apollo astronauts I'm talking specifically about, these guys went to the moon, they saw all that stuff, and then they were told by NASA, under threat of receipt of pension and everything else, That they better not talk about it.
And they, for the most part, all kept their mouths shut for, you know, how long has it been?
35 years.
And if you can just imagine yourself seeing something so astounding as all these structures on the moon and then being told you can't talk about it.
You know yourself, John, that doing four hours on a radio program like this, you said so before the show, you're a little nervous.
Everybody's nervous.
But you know, after a while, That goes away, and I interviewed Dr. Mitchell, actually many times, Edgar Mitchell, and the damnedest thing, the goddest thing, John, you know, a couple of hours we were talking, I think Hoagland was there, as a matter of fact, and Hoagland started talking about all the stuff that was on the moon, and Edgar Mitchell, and then Hoagland said something like, I want you to tell me, I mean, being on the moon,
is an emotional lifetime incredible experience describe your emotions and your thoughts when you were walking on the moon and there was a long pause and Dr. Mitchell came back and she said you know it's really strange and now I'm paraphrasing but I'm very close it's really strange I should remember everything in such stark detail but my memory of what I felt And what I was seeing, it's all kind of foggy, and I don't remember how I felt.
And I thought, whoa, was that a weird response.
Yeah, that's what he said in his book.
And then there was another astronaut, when he was asked the same question, he says, you know what?
All I can think is a pair of black shiny shoes.
That's what the psychological programming comes from.
And I had the privilege once of talking with a lady who did, helped with a psychological program.
She worked for NASA.
And she told me how they did it and the problems they had with the astronauts.
You know, and Neil Armstrong, every time he gets in front of the public, he makes some... he drops some... When you say when he gets in front of the public, that's only been, what, three times?
Not very often, but when he does, he says something that makes everybody go, whoa, holy smokes, what does he mean by that?
I think Neil...
Dealt with it by saying, if I can't tell him the truth, I'm not going to tell him anything.
And then there were the other astronauts who had endless trouble, marital troubles, all kinds of different... I mean, obvious psychological, big-time stress of some kind.
Yeah.
So, you're saying they saw all this.
They know all this.
They know all this.
Do you think that it was explained to them when they got back as part of the debriefing, John?
What they saw?
No, I think that what they did was, you saw that?
Really?
Now, I mean, did the other guys see it?
I think they treated them as, you know, little kids, or maybe a little bit crazy.
It was part of the plan to keep things secret.
In other words, when they went, they didn't tell them, now you're going to see these great big structures, so you've got to keep your mouth shut.
Yeah, I'm just a talk show host, John, but when I hear an answer like that from From Mitchell, I echo, that's not possible.
You were on the moon.
You were there.
You got your feet on the moon.
You walked on the moon.
You have to know what it felt like, and what it was, and your surroundings.
It can't all be sort of a weird memory for you.
It just can't be.
It can't be.
It's the biggest event of your life, and of a lot of lives on the planet.
You have to remember.
But no.
I mean, that's too bizarre.
So, anyway, maybe you're on to it.
I mean, maybe they did see all of this, and maybe they were programmed out of it.
And you believe that this antenna is a transmitter of souls, both sending the new ones and receiving the ones that expire.
Right.
And you remember a year and a half ago at the Reno Air Races, an astronaut decked a A Japanese reporter that came up and said, hey, you guys didn't go to the moon.
That's all BS.
Yeah, put him on the ground.
OK, the reason he did, in my opinion, is the fact that it's not that they didn't go to the moon.
It's that they did go to the moon and what they found there.
And it was so troubling now to be accused that they didn't go when they did go.
And now they've been keeping a secret for all these years of what there was up there.
You can imagine how troubling that would be.
What do you think they were told, John?
In the end, to force them to keep that secret.
Do you think they were told part of what was in what I call the Lear Test?
No.
I just think they were said, you can't do it.
That's all there is.
Yeah, it wouldn't be enough.
I mean, you would have to say enough to an astronaut This is such a magnificent thing to withhold from mankind that not only are ETs here, but ETs are on the moon.
The evidence is real close by, relatively.
And this, for mankind, is like the biggest thing there could possibly be.
So you've got to give someone a pretty good reason not to talk about that.
Yes.
A pretty good reason other than don't You can't talk about that.
You've got to do better than that.
It's like, mankind isn't ready for this information, can't know this information.
Maybe you're right.
Maybe that's what they did.
We're at a break point.
Can you hold on?
Alright, good.
We've got plenty of time.
John Lear.
I've been where the eagle flies.
Rode his wings across all them skies.
Kissed the sun, touched the moon, but he left me Yeah, but if you'd really done all that, if you'd really
seen all that, touched the moon, wouldn't you remember?
Lady Bird, come on down, I'm here waiting on the ground.
Lady Bird, I'll treat you good, ah, Lady Bird, I wish you would, you Lady Bird.
Pretty Lady Bird.
In the rain, don't bother asking for explanation, she will tell you that she came in the year of the cat.
She doesn't give you time for questions, as she looks at your arms and legs,
and you follow to your sense of which direction can quickly disappear.
By the blue-tiled walls near the market stalls, there's a hint that she leads you to.
These same senses I feel much like, just like the way for running through the year of the cat.
you To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
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800-618-8255. International callers may reach Art by calling your in-country Sprint access
Hmm.
number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
From coast to coast, and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM, with Art Bell.
Mankind, an experiment. Hmm. That's interesting. Can you...
Can you... Can you... Can you...
Can you... Can you completely deny the possibility... The possibility... And there is one, you
know. But think about it. We are an experiment.
Can you... Can you... Can you... Can you... Can you... Can you... Can you... Can you...
Can you... Can you... Can you... Can you... Can you... Can you... Can you... Can you...
And I know I've got a soul, because that sax sinks right into it.
See you right back.
Once again, here's John Lear.
All right, John.
A lot of questions from the audience, and here's kind of an interesting one from Morgan in Clearwater, Florida.
Asked John, If a lot of ghosts from Earth are here by their choice as souls because they know not to go to the light after they die, or should I go to the light?
Please ask him.
Same old question, John.
If there is a receiver and transmitter, then perhaps the light that people see and that trip they begin to take is actually to the moon.
Yeah, it's going to the moon.
I'm trying to remember the remote view.
Oh, McGonigal.
Have you interviewed him at all?
You bet, Joe McGonigal.
Yeah, Joe.
OK, in his book, he said he was tasked once to follow somebody who had died in a car accident south of San Francisco.
And he found him and followed him.
And as he was headed, you know, he's headed towards the moon.
And as the person got closer and closer to the moon, there was something wrapping around him.
And something was saying to McGonagall, you cannot come here.
This is not your place.
You can go anywhere else, but you can't come here.
And it got to the point where McGonagall broke off because he felt his very life threatened.
That's fascinating.
You know, I don't remember, Joe.
Of course, maybe I just didn't ask the right question.
But other than Ed Dames and maybe one or two others that I can think of, most of the remote viewers won't do that kind of thing, John.
Either that or they don't publicly want to talk about it.
You know, I definitely read it and I thought it was McMonagle, but it could have been another of the remote viewers.
I remember there was one that came to Las Vegas.
But that incident did happen.
And that's another thing that tipped me off, that the souls were going to the moon.
So, you don't think we're going back to the moon, and you don't think anybody else is going to the moon?
No.
It's a secret.
It has to be kept.
Part of it, you know, if you were the government and you knew the secret, and you knew the experiment, and part of the experiment is not knowing that it's an experiment.
That's why This ex-conference that's coming up is so ridiculous.
Ex-conference?
Yeah.
What is it?
The ex-conference in Washington, D.C.
I guess I'm behind the times.
What is this, another disclosure thing?
Yeah, a big disclosure thing.
All the UFO guys are going to talk.
They're going to influence Congress and Senate.
It's not going to happen for the simple fact That, you know, they're talking to people who have nothing to do with the cover-up.
You take a senator or a congressman, and even if they got interested, let's say that they were high-level and had a lot of seniority, do you think they're going to risk any of their seniority to bring something like UFO to the forefront?
Do you think that they're going to hold hearings?
Of course not, and even if they did, somebody would approach them and say, let's say you A senator, Art, and he comes in and says, Art, look, this UFO thing, I think that it needs to be investigated, but the guy I work for and the guy who gives you your clearance as a senator so that you can learn all this secret stuff that you know about, he thinks it's all wacko, so we have to appease him.
You know, there should be an investigation, but at this point in your career, I don't think you can afford to irritate my boss because you've got your clearance coming.
That's the kind of thing that would happen if anybody got any close to doing an investigation on the UFO cover-up.
And I know Steve Bassett has very good intentions, but there is no way Well, John, I can tell you this.
I know some pretty powerful people who I'm not going to name, but you would know them, and they have made some really Big behind-the-scenes moves to get an investigation going on UFOs.
I mean, right into the right places.
I wish I could name the names and someday maybe I will, but not tonight.
And every time they get very close, some little hitch develops and it doesn't get done.
Simple as that.
I mean, right up to the Congressional Senate level.
I'm talking about Senators.
Yeah.
It gets stopped every time.
That's true.
I know that for a fact.
Absolutely.
It's not going to happen.
So they can have all the conferences they want.
It's not going to change anything.
No.
But again, like Richard, who I don't always agree with, Dr. Greer, for example, his intentions are awfully good.
Awfully good.
But I honestly have concerns that he'll ever get anywhere with it, I guess, just the same way you do.
Do you think that if... And by the way, Dr. Greer was one of the ones I played the Lear test for.
Oh.
And you know, he actually, very quickly after it, if I recall correctly, said, well, when I said, if all of that was true, Doctor, would you still be for disclosure?
Of course not!
But all of that's not true!
You know, that's roughly what he said.
Back to the light for a moment.
We never answered poor Morgan's question here.
This is a tough one, Morgan.
Now we're asking John Lear's opinion about whether, you know, go to the light or not.
Is that the question?
Yeah.
Well, now remember, It was Whitley Striever that told me that story and I related it to you.
I didn't come up with that myself.
Okay.
Are you asking, am I going to go to the white light?
Yeah, would you go to the light or would you go to the dark?
That's a question for you.
Well, I don't know.
If I had to go to night, I'd probably go to the white light because I miss some of my friends and I want to go back to where everybody else goes and you see all your friends for a few minutes and then you get sent back to earth.
Uh-huh.
So you think that all your friends are in the right place?
Well... Or is it the only...?
Might as well slam it right here.
Is the whole concept of heaven and hell, as we understand them biblically, nothing more than a myth?
You know, I don't know.
Well, if there's a machine on the moon doing the soul extraction and That's a careful statement.
I don't know.
Certainly, the story that Whitley Strieber told about being in the box was hell.
That certainly was hell.
Remember that story?
Uh-huh.
I do.
That was the most frightening thing that had ever happened to him and they could ever imagine.
I don't remember exactly how the story went, but I think his soul was in a little teeny box Yes.
Trapped there for a while.
Yes.
That would seem hell.
With all the knowledge that you have, I assume that you are from time to time invited to these kinds of conferences, aren't you?
Yeah, but I never go.
You never go?
You sort of, there was a point where you threw your hands up with all of this and you more or less said, well, I've learned all there is to learn about the whole ET question and UFOs and I'm done.
No, not that I didn't, not that I hadn't learned all there was to know.
Or all you wanted to know.
All I wanted to know, it was just, I could see it was, you know, there was no point in going to a conference because these people are just, you know, preaching to each other.
And when I first got into this, I could pull everybody up to where I was, because I didn't know that much, and I had all the documents and said, you know, this is what so-and-so wrote, this is what, so here's a copy of the documents, here's the receipt for it, and I can bring them up to that level.
But I kept going, you know, getting more information, and what is it they used to say?
That leer leaps in logic was what they used to accuse me of, and you know, it just They were leaps in logic, but they turned out to be true.
I was getting further ahead of everybody with the information, and it was too hard to sit down with somebody and bring them up to speed.
So, let's come back to this machine on the moon again.
It's pretty interesting, and you believe now that it accounts for some things on Earth.
In other words, you already said the machine wasn't perfect.
For example, mariners lost at sea.
That machine can't retrieve that soul because it's beneath a very great deal of water, which it apparently cannot penetrate.
Even a little bit of water.
Really?
Even a little bit of water?
This machine may be imperfect in other ways, or it may be by design.
How can we know?
Either imperfect or by design.
But what's going on with this whole question of homosexuality, what we call the gay question, is apparently either by design or the machine is breaking down.
What's going on is predominantly male souls are being transmitted to females.
And predominantly female souls are being transmitted to males.
Now, whether that's by design or it's breaking down or whatever, but that's what's causing this increase, you know, a remarkable increase in homosexuality.
Some suggest there really is not an increase, that it's just more people are not afraid to be out of the closet.
That could very well be.
So we can't know whether it's by design or whether it's just a simple mistake.
Correct.
Either way, you're actually seeing cross-matched souls.
That's what's happening, yeah.
Do you know that the same way you know about the fact that we're an experiment?
Well, you just figure it out.
Take the facts and figure it out.
Nobody has to tell you that.
Yeah, I guess not.
I mean, if you accept one, then why not the other?
It's the old Occam's Razor.
Which is the more plausible?
Did the moon emerge from the Pacific Ocean and go out there and establish itself in perfect rotational lock?
I don't think so.
Did it cruise along and get caught by Earth's gravitational pull and establish itself in Perfect rotation lock?
I don't think so.
There has to be another other reason.
And that's because somebody towed it there and put it into rotational lock.
And so you believe it was put there for the specific purpose of engendering this experiment?
That's what I think.
That others might just call creation.
Where do you think, John, that the Bible fits into all of this?
I mean, the Bible has a very specific way it describes our creation that most Christians buy into.
How did that come to pass, do you think, in the scheme of all this?
Well, I think it's all part of the rules and regulations so we won't hurt ourselves.
Somebody on the Fantastic Forum mentioned that Well, it certainly isn't doing a very good job, and I have to agree with that, but apparently that was the intent.
Well, we've been warring quite a bit, killing each other with regularity.
Yeah, but we've been killing ourselves for God, right?
Yeah, when we do it, when we have wars, of course, all of us hold the book and God's name Out in front of the battle, there's no question about it.
Yeah.
Always in God's name.
Yeah.
Wars always.
On both sides.
So that's true.
Part of the plan, do you think, John?
You know?
I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know either.
Back to Richard Hoagland for a moment.
He is, of course, taking big time hits right now.
How much of what Richard says do you buy and in what areas do you disagree with him?
The area I disagree is a couple weeks ago he was on some program and I heard something about he was discussing the problems we were having with Spirit Rover and he mentioned that there may be a group that could hijack NASA's antenna and send spurious signals to Mars.
That is absolute Yes, NASA is doing those various signals.
They're the ones that are creating the problems.
Those signals first go to Canberra.
Then I think they go to Pine Gap.
And then I thought I saw a diagram where they went into Northern California and then back down to JPL.
But whatever the scenario, those signals and photographs and everything are tampered with and made just like they want before they get to JPL.
Now, the problem with Richard is he knows those guys and what a great team they are.
And they are!
They have no idea that those signals are being tampered with before they get to JPL.
Hey, John, if we were seeing untampered with photographs, what would we be seeing?
Well, I don't know.
Spirit Rover is allegedly now not much more.
I'd like to see it go down to Typhonia.
I'd like to see it go to Cydonia.
I'd like to see it go to that monument that McMonigle visited when they took him to the seven coordinate points on Mars.
He thought it was on Earth, and he saw all this weird stuff, and then in the debriefing, they told him, no, that was Mars.
And he said, my gosh.
And he saw these things.
And what was so interesting about the book is somehow, Somebody had sent me those exact eight photographs, like about maybe eight years before.
And I pulled them out, and I thought, I wonder if these are the same ones?
And they were the same ones of the places he went.
And there's one of the places he went on Mars that has a huge type Washington monument, but only much, much bigger.
And, you know, I'd like to see Spirit Rover go there.
You know what NASA says, John?
They say, You know, if any of the stuff that Hoagland talks about or others wish was really there,
We would go, buzzer!
We'd release the photographs and we'd get funding we never dreamed about for a manned mission to Mars.
The whole world would want to investigate the possibility of a civilization or life, intelligent life, ever having been on Mars.
It would be the best thing that ever happened to NASA.
Keep it quiet.
Not in a million years.
That's what they say.
Good story.
But what they really do is they seek out government disinformation artists By first of all, they have to have a PhD and be extremely knowledgeable on many subjects.
Then they have to be extremely well spoken.
Then they have to exude confidence and congeniality.
And when they mix with the public, they do exactly what you just said.
Oh, and Fagin used to do the same thing.
Oh, gosh, wouldn't it be just I would, it would be great if we could just meet an alien.
But you know, the facts are, It's too far away and they aren't here.
But, you know, it would be great.
But that is a good story.
I mean, it's a good story.
It's a great story.
I mean, you know, and but those are not what's going on.
Do you think they know that?
Do you think that the NASA guys that are saying these things know that?
Really?
I mean, Richard says that the lower level technicians below the very top, they don't know any of this.
You know, they're at consoles doing work, they don't see anything tampered with, or
any of the rest of that. They're good, faithful employees.
And even the PR guys, you know.
Yeah, usually they don't know. And I told you the story when Bob and I went down to Los Angeles to meet with the
head of Viking Imaging, and I forget his name, and I keep
Ready to look it up, but I don't know what Whatever it was, he had a biking image.
And what Bob had seen up at the test site was close-ups of the pyramids in Cydonia.
And he saw doors and windows, and obviously somebody lived there.
So we went down to pick up Bob's race car.
And while we were there, we drove over to a JPL, and we walked up to see this guy.
I wish I could remember his name.
And we sat down and talked with him.
I'll tell you what, we're at a break point, John.
You may think of his name during the break.
We'll get right back to that.
We'll be right back.
Middle of the night, past 2 a.m.
actually.
It's 2 AM.
The sun is still warm.
From the high desert in the middle of the night, this is Coast to Coast AM.
Coast to Coast AM.
so so
so The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
line at area code 775-727-1295. The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033. From west
of the Rockies, call Art at 800-618-8255. International callers may reach Art Bell by
calling your in-country Sprint Access number, pressing option 5 and dialing toll free 800-893-8253.
From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
You know, when considering the manner of our creation and maintenance, this isn't any crazier
than listening to a lot of other renditions of the way it happened.
Not really.
Any of them you listen to are fantastic, beyond belief, hard to grasp, hard to consider, and rejected by many.
I understand that.
That we are, that mankind, is an experiment.
There's something on the moon that literally controls, transmits,
transports our souls and then we, our flesh.
It's just the container. That's all.
Once again, here's John Lear.
He's read lots of secret documents.
I don't know.
He's certainly got information confirming what these documents say from very high places.
For example, General Doolittle.
But we're off into some wild country here.
We were talking about NASA and what they say.
And certainly, it is a good story.
It does seem to me, John, as though Gosh, if they had something like that, they'd have all the money they needed to go investigate and all the rest of it, but you're suggesting that at a higher level, they already know and have known for a long time what's there and what it means to humanity, and we can't be told about it.
And before I answer that, Art, I just wanted to tell you that bad boy at the Fantastic Forum says hello.
As to what NASA knows, they know everything.
I mean, they know Venus is a normal planet like Earth.
It doesn't have all that, you know, glowing hot molten lava and 90 bars of pressure.
And, you know, it's ridiculous.
They know everything that's on the moon.
They know Mars, you know, for all I know.
And I certainly at one time did think that we already had some kind of a base on Mars.
The reason I thought that is I was going to get to talk to somebody who went there.
Now, when you go either to the moon or these supposed bases we have on the moon or Mars, it's a one-way trip.
You cannot come back because they don't want any chance of anybody finding out about it.
And for some reason, this guy had come back, and I was going to get a chance to talk to him.
He lived in, I think, south of San Francisco somewhere.
And we got right down to where I was going to get to meet this guy, and then all of a called the number and it was the same number.
We had been using it, now it changed.
There was a family using that number and they said they had had it for 15 years and so on
and so on.
But they know all that stuff.
They know, for instance, the spaceships in the rings of Saturn.
The other day Yankee Yo-Yo posted a story with this message and it's a continuing assault
He says in a fantastic forum, Hey you guys, did you hear that Richard Hoagland thinks there's a UFO ticking and purring in the rings of Saturn?
So I wrote back that if Richard Hoagland said this, then it was confirmed by Norm Berggren in his book, The Ringmakers of Saturn, published in 1986.
Now before I tell you what Berggren said, let me read you a small portion of his bona fides.
This is Rich, this is Norm Bergman, BSME Cornell, LLB LaSalle, Postgraduate Studies Stanford, US Navy 44 to 46, Thermodynamics with Douglas Aircraft, Aero Research Scientist with NACA Ames Laboratories, Supervisor, Flight Test Manager, Flight Test Analysis Manager, Test Plans Manager, Re-entrants, Test Operations, Staff Scientist, Satellite Systems, Lockheed Missile and Space Company.
Wow.
It goes on and on and on.
So here's what Norm Bergman had to say in the preface of his book about the UFO that is ticking and purring in the rings of Saturn, and I quote, Presented herein are pictures of an immensely large, enormously powerful extraterrestrial space vehicle located in the vicinity of Saturn and its moons.
These photographic revelations are reinforced by and are consistent with scientific data extending over centuries as far back as Galileo.
Pictures have been obtained by the author using simple, repeatable enhancement techniques applied to publicly available NASA photos from Voyager 1 and 2 flybys of Saturn.
Having been obtained by pre-scheduled flight programming, Voyager photographs are scientifically unique in that they are strictly impersonal.
End of quote.
Now the size of the largest of the vehicles is shown in Plate 27, page 50, as 31,496 miles in length and 2,422 miles in diameter.
Nowhere in the book is it said that the object is ticking or purring.
Now we're talking about a fairly large spacecraft here.
Yes.
Now NASA knows that.
NASA knows that.
And then, you know, John, what is our present space program?
Even though since we went to the moon, we've laid back and we haven't left with man, low Earth orbit.
Haven't done it.
But we have sent out probes.
We've sent what we just sent to Mars and deeper space probes.
Is all of this a ruse?
All PR.
It's all PR?
Yeah.
You know, that's an opinion.
I can't prove that.
In my opinion, it's all PR.
Because they already know what's there.
And moreover, if we should have to get a photograph or evidence of something that they're trying to hide, then that has to be covered up.
Lookit, how ridiculous is it, you know, that Spirit Rover didn't go to Cydonia or Tythonia or The Monument.
Now, I know that the standard answer is, well, we've got four more important things to look at than, you know... That's what they say.
But here at Typhonia, in the Typhonia Chasma, on the west side of the Valley Marineris, you can go to Project Red Star on the web, projectredstar.com, and see the city yourself.
And not only that, you can go to Mellon Space Science Systems on the website, He's the guy that, you know, is in charge of all the pictures coming from Mars.
Right.
And go to this one Mars picture, and I'll give you the address of it.
You can pull it down yourself, and you can put it in Photoshop 7, and you can magnify it and see the city yourself.
I have seen a couple of photographs that Richard showed me that made me gasp.
That showed, without question in my mind, underground cities.
Now, even Richard, to some degree, questions the authenticity of the photograph, or at least, you know, he's not certain.
But when I saw that, I did gasp, and I did say, oh my God, that was a city.
That was a city.
There's no question about it.
If that photograph is authentic, it's a city.
I saw that with my own eyes.
So then all this is a ruse, and it's just a sort of a minimal effort, and we're not going to put man back up?
Or will the day come when we will be admitted to some further next step?
No, they'll be cleaning out the Petri dish shortly.
I don't think we're going to be going anywhere.
You think so?
Except for the moon.
This is just opinion, you know.
Uh-huh.
But it must be opinion based on something.
In other words, you think the experiment may not be going so well.
Well, you know, it's not that it's not going so well.
People are becoming aware of who's running the experiment.
And I don't think the experiment is valid if we begin to question whether or not there is a, quote, God.
And so it might be time to clean out the Petri dish and start over again.
And according to records, apparently every, what, 25,000 years, the Earth is cleansed.
Yes.
And they start over again.
And you think we're pretty close?
Well, you know, who knows.
Something you were going to say about the Naval Observatory in Washington?
Yeah, I was going to tell you that story that I was back in 1990 visiting my daughter And her husband, and it was Armed Forces Day, and we were headed out to the Air Force Base.
What is it, Andrews?
Yes.
And we're driving down the street, and we went right by the Naval Observatory, you know, where the Vice President lives.
Sure.
And it said open house.
So I swerved in there.
I said, hey, this is going to be interesting.
Let's go in here.
So we went in there and parked, and all the scientists We're dressed up as famous figures in astronomy history.
There was Galileo and Giordano Brumo, and they all had this little stick, this little thing where they'd recite a little bit of history.
So I'm talking to this one scientist, and I said, well, listen, is there a speed to gravity?
And he says, well, we think it's about the speed of light.
Isn't it true that gravity is instantaneous between all planets, and actually there's two gravities, gravity A and gravity B?
And this guy had a Pepsi can in his hand, and he squeezed it so hard he drew blood.
And I had my daughter and her husband watching this.
So, we walked around with some of the exhibits, and then the head of the observatory was out there getting pictures taken with everybody, and you know, their family would take a picture.
And I walked up, And said, can I get a picture?
He said, absolutely not, and he walked away.
Oh, really?
Then shortly after that... Maybe he had just treated the poor guy who wounded himself with a Pepsi can.
Shortly after that, there's this photographer doing leaps and bounds to take pictures of me as we're walking towards the parking lot.
I mean, it was comical.
My daughter says, Damn, what's that guy doing?
You know, and he was hiding behind trees, and sticking the camera out.
Yes.
And, uh, it was just a very odd experience.
I don't think I'd ever told you that one.
No, you haven't.
Uh, it is odd, and you think he crushed that Pepsi can because... He knew I was speaking the truth.
Gravity A and Gravity B, you want to explain that one?
Gravity, you know, Gravity A is, works on an atomic scale.
Gravity B is the gravity that holds you on the Earth, and the Earth, uh, in orbit around the Sun, that type of deal. Gravity works on an atomic scale and it's
what's currently known as the strong force. You know most theoretical physicists really
have a hard time trying to explain gravity at all. Yes. It doesn't seem like science understands
gravity all that well at all.
Yeah they have a hard time with it and they also have a hard time that it's instantaneous.
But the story I told you many years ago, once the time that Bob came back from S4 and he told me
about a gigantic weapon that we had, a weapon that was so powerful that it could destroy
a continent half the size of South America.
And here's the end.
He said that a message was sent to the owners of the Greys, and we established that they lived more than a thousand light years away, the people who made the Greys.
The message was sent to them, either you help us get rid of the greys or nobody's going to have Earth, meaning we'd blow ourselves up.
And I said, well, now, what good is that going to do?
Because, you know, if they're over a thousand light years away, it's going to be 2,000 light years before we get an answer.
And he said, no, no, they use a gravity phone.
Gravity is instantaneous.
And if you could hook up a phone to it, you know, you can call hundreds of light years away instantaneously.
That's a fascinating concept.
Gravity is instantaneous.
Yes.
We know the speed of light, but gravity is instantaneous.
And we'd have no way to measure that.
That's why we don't know how fast gravity propagates.
There wouldn't be a way to measure that, would there?
No.
Not that we have.
So, the speed of gravity, you can't even say it has a speed, it's instantaneous.
That's fascinating.
I don't think I've ever heard anybody say that before, nor even speak of the speed of gravity, since we don't understand it.
But what a concept, that it's instantaneous.
As in, it always is, always was, and always will be.
So it's always there.
But there is a speed to it, you're suggesting.
Some sort of speed.
No, it's instantaneous.
Boy, the human mind has a hard time wrapping around that one.
Yeah, like 400 years ago when we thought the Earth was flat and they were trying to convince, you know, the population that was round.
And they'd say, it can't be round.
We'd fall off.
Don't be ridiculous.
So then gravity ultimately perhaps would be not just instantaneous communication, but instantaneous A travel as well?
Yeah, that's the gravity wave that they use to travel.
And the leaps that they make, according to what Bob said, I think it's every 12 milliseconds.
That gravity amplifier recycles every 12 milliseconds.
So however far they can travel in one leap, they can do that in an hour, 12 milliseconds, divided by 60, divided by 60.
Do you have any idea of how a gravity amplifier would even work?
The basic concept behind it?
Well, the basic concept behind it is they use the gravity A-wave, which they extract from the 115.
They pump protons into that.
It goes up to 116.
There's an instantaneous decay.
And when it decays, it throws off any matter in the gravity A-wave.
Somehow, they harness the gravity A-wave through the three gravity amplifiers in the bottom of the craft.
And these things focus on a point in space.
And like I said, I don't know how far that point is.
And they pull spades toward them.
Now we think of space as nothing, you know, containing maybe one hydrogen atom per square meter.
But in fact, space is a fabric, it can be pulled or warped.
And with these gravity, if you exercise enough gravity, You can actually pull that space towards you, wrap it around your craft, and then turn it off, and you're that length away.
All of this is possible through Element 116, right?
Through 115, yes.
Oh, I'm sorry, 115.
You know, John, it was either after I had you on last, I think it was, or perhaps Bob's last appearance, but there was a scientific article that they had just for some Incredible, short, instant, actually synthesized Element 115.
And so did a lot of the audience out there, because I got a lot of emails.
Wow!
There it is!
Element 115.
Yeah, and Bob made a comment, I think, to Linda Motenhowe, that he would like to know more about it.
And I sent him as much information as I had about it, and he hasn't commented, but he said he would like to know the exact makeup, because apparently the 115 that they synthesized was unstable.
And the one thing that he and I held in our hands was certainly stable.
It was, I think it was 238 grams in the arrowhead shape, and I don't know if I told you this, I visited Bob a few months ago in Albuquerque, and we're out working in his garage, and the half-scale gravity amplifier that Joe Vaninetti had built was sitting there in Disarray.
And Bob said, you want this?
I said, are you kidding?
I've wanted that thing for 15 years.
He said, here.
And I got the Half-Scale Gravity Amplifier.
And it, you know, comes with a base and the little half sphere.
And inside is the little holder for the 115 and the little tube that pumps the 115 into the, uh, uh, pumps the protons into the 115.
And you've got this?
You've got this now?
Yeah, I got it in my office.
I'm looking at it right now.
I mean, in my den.
And, you know, it's just a half-scale replica.
Obviously, it doesn't work, but it's really neat to have, and it's really neat he gave it to me.
And I got it there.
I'm looking at it right now across my desk.
It's an in-glass cabinet, and behind it is the original drawing that Bob made for me when he came back and showed me how the saucers work, how they pump the protons into the 115, pump it up to 116.
It instantaneously decayed, threw off the antimatter, which was mixed with matter, and a thermionic generator creating heat, which they turned into used for voltage to power the craft, and the gravity A-wave, which they used to travel, and the original drawing is framed behind that little replica amplifier.
Boy, what a concept.
All right, hold on, John, we're at the top of the hour.
So, gravity is instantaneous.
I mean, just try during the break to grasp Mentally, the concept of instantaneous, and what that means, really means it was always, it was always, is now, and always will be, in a way.
That would have to be something of the nature of instantaneous, wouldn't it?
And that you can use it to communicate, and then perhaps go from point A to point B real quick.
This is Coast to Coast, AM in the Nighttime.
What do Melkis do?
He's got this dream about buying some land.
He's gonna give up the booze and the one night stands.
And then he'll settle down in this quiet little town.
And forget about everything.
But you know he'll always keep moving.
No, he's never gonna stop moving.
Cause he's rolling.
He's the Rolling Stone.
When you wake up, it's a new morning.
The sun is shining, it's a new morning.
You're going home, you're going home To talk with Art Bell, call the Wildcard line at 888-948-9483.
The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
line is area code 775-727-1222. To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free
at 800-825-5033. From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
International callers may reach Art by calling your in-country Sprint Access number,
pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free, 800-893-0903. From coast to coast, and worldwide
on the Internet, call Art Bell at 800-825-5033. This is Coast to Coast AM, with Art Bell.
Is any topic at all more interesting than who we are, how we got to be here, what we're all
about?
I don't know what it is, and this embraces all of that.
My guest is John Lear, son of Bill Lear.
Yep, Lear, jet-type thing.
And he sure does have a lot to say about all of that, how we got here, who we are, how we're being manipulated.
and a moment ago, I hope you took the opportunity during the break to think about the instantaneous nature of
gravity.
Well anyway, if we get element 115 and stabilize it, John, then presumably we'd be on our way toward the kind of
travel that you were talking about a little while ago, wouldn't we?
Well, that's pretty much impossible, but even if we had it and we could stabilize it, then we'd have to make a container to contain the matter-antimatter reaction from which they draw the heat And turn it into a positive, turn it into voltage.
Right.
And making the container would be some more problem.
We're talking, you know, something that's a hundred thousand years ahead of us.
All right.
Something a hundred thousand years ahead of us.
I may be dead by then.
You may.
They say it crashed at Aztec, right?
Right.
One of them crashed.
And how much do you know about that?
I know Doug Nolan.
Apparently, he just passed away, and he was the last living witness to the crash there.
The only one that we know that had said anything, and now Bill Steinman wrote UFO Crash at Aztec, and that came out about maybe 15 years ago, and he did a thorough, extremely thorough investigation of the crash at Aztec, which occurred in 1948, and that was the one that Frank Scully I read Simon's book and it was very interesting.
I drove to Aztec myself and looked for Heart Canyon.
I didn't find it at that time.
But then about seven or eight years ago when I got into mining, there was an old gold miner that did assaying south of town, Doug Nolan.
And I went to his house to get some assays of some of the ore up at the mine.
And he was, let's see, at that time he had to be, you know, 72 or 73.
Right.
And after visiting him for two or three times, he said, we were sitting at the kitchen table, he said, you know, John, I've never told anybody this, he said, because we were sworn to secrecy.
But I know you do a little lecturing on UFOs.
And I just wanted to tell you, I was there.
At what they call the crash at Aztec.
And I said, really?
And they said, tell me about it.
And he said, I work for El Paso Natural Gas.
He said, we were laying a trench in Largo Canyon.
And he said, there was five of us.
And he said, this lion saucer came in, zoomed across over our heads, and crashed maybe a couple hundred feet away from us.
And he said, we all walked over there.
And he said, It was five hours before the military got there, so we had enough time to look at everything and see the whole thing.
He said there was a hole in the porthole.
He said it was about the size of a half a dollar.
He said we looked in there, and there was kind of a little console, and two of the bodies were leaning over the console, charred, just laying there.
I said, what size were they?
He said, oh, about three feet.
And I said, what did they look like?
He said, exactly like us.
And I said, what color were they?
And he said, well, they were burned.
They were a chocolate brown burn color.
And he said, we spent a lot of time, he said, looking in there.
He said, we went and got an acetylene torch to see if we could make that hole bigger to get inside the thing.
But he said, the acetylene torch for 10 minutes on that thing didn't even make it warm.
But going back, exactly like us, but no more than three feet tall.
Otherwise, just an absolute reduction of all features, that's all?
Right, and that would match up with a story we heard that some witness saw.
Somebody fitting that exact type description was seen at Pine Gap in a hangar there.
So anyway, apparently the military gets there after about five hours, herds them all into a corner of the field.
You know, give them the briefing, you know, you tell anybody, uh, we won't kill you, we'll kill your wife, your kids, your dog, your parents, everybody.
So that, that makes an impression because usually people don't care.
Okay, kill me, go ahead, kill me.
But when they threat, oh no, we're not going to kill you, we're going to kill everybody else.
Right.
So they watched him take this thing apart.
He said, I said, well, how'd they do it?
He said, they borrowed some of our, um, he had, He had a name for it.
It might have been welding rod or something to make a long, maybe 12 foot long kind of a poker.
And he said they put it into the hole in the window and they knew exactly where to push.
And when they did, he said, John, that thing opened up just like the craft in the day the earth stood still.
The bottom came out and a pie section raised.
He said they went in and they took the bodies out.
Then we watched him disassemble this thing and he said it disassembled in pie sections and apparently they knew exactly how to do it.
So this was obviously not their first crash retrieval.
Obviously.
So Doug told me this story and I had him read Steinman's book and he made a few corrections in Steinman's book There's a story about helicopters coming in and flying overhead.
He said, no, there were no helicopters.
And he also had a comment.
Steinman said that they used something else to poke the lever that made the door come open.
And Doug says, no, no, no, that was whatever it was, welding wires.
John, your dad, what was his attitude about all of this?
I've heard stories.
What was your dad?
Because obviously your dad would have influenced you.
Apparently, he was a lot more involved than I realized.
And like I say, you know, I thought it was interesting, but I never got involved until Bud Hopkins' book in 84-85.
Growing up, you know, Dad used to talk about it a lot.
Yes, they're here.
Yeah, they come and pick me up.
And he had a friend, a TWA pilot named Bob Addix.
I'm not sure.
I think Bob passed away a couple years ago.
But he was the TWA pilot that saw the giant wheel come by his airplane, spinning like a Ferris wheel, but, you know, faster, and zoomed by.
And we had people around my house that turned out they were all involved.
For instance, Jimmy Doodle was always there.
I was going to look up Before the show, who's the head of the CIA?
Who's the MJ-12 guy?
I had a crush on my mom and she told me that in later years.
But all those guys, like Randy Lovelace, he was always around.
So apparently my dad was very involved.
Now there's a videotape floating around of my dad, and I think we covered this last time, at the Bonson Laboratories, and doing some kind of UFO project.
There's a picture of my dad standing at a blackboard, With a picture of a saucer there explaining how it worked.
My mom is standing behind him.
This has to be like 1954, 1955.
And then recently on the internet, I came across a site that has information on the T Townsend Brown-Bonson connection.
Now, they don't say anything about my dad, but there is a picture of my dad at the Bonson Laboratories doing the research.
So, you know, for all I know, maybe T Townsend Brown was there and they were all doing something together.
The answer to your question, yes, he was heavily involved.
Yes, he did influence me, but he never told me the slightest bit of inside information.
But you think he knew a whole lot more than... Oh, yeah.
Yeah, he did.
With regard to the MJ-12 documents, they were, in fact, there were all kinds of references, actually, from the government indicating that You know, there really was something to those documents.
I got a call from somebody recently who made a couple of notations to me that showed that there really had been a full investigative, you know, that it really had gone through our government.
The whole mess had.
And this is a very sensible person who believes they're absolutely real as well.
Yeah, I think the Robert Cutler document was a good proof of that.
That was the only document that's ever surfaced that actually had a special studies group, and I think it mentioned MJ-12, whatever it was.
That was a good one.
And you think that organization is alive well and still pulling the strings today?
That organization or something very, very similar to it.
Very much like it.
And of course you gave the Lear test which describes why there won't be disclosure, but perhaps within the plan somewhere, John, if the Petri dish isn't emptied, maybe at some point there is a plan for disclosure.
Do you think that's possible?
Absolutely.
And I mean not by us.
Yeah, it's possible.
How would I know?
But my feeling is no.
For the experiment to be valid, we can't know this is going on.
So then we're trapped on Earth.
They're not going to let us go anywhere.
That's what I think.
That must be an incredibly... If the astronauts, the astronauts that do know this must... I just can't even imagine how they handle... That's why they're such heroes, you know, is they have handled it.
And they've remained above the fray, and they've honored the code, and they've done their duty.
But not without a price.
Oh, yeah.
Not without a big price.
Somebody sent me an email that I want to read to you and see if you have a response to it.
Abductions occur on a daily basis throughout the United States to at least 10% of the population.
That was said to be a quote from you.
This person says, do the math.
10% of the current U.S.
population is about 28 million.
If that many have been abducted over the past 50 years, that comes to $560,000 per year on average.
$160,000 per year on average that averages to 46,000 666 per month which comes to about 1555 a day
And none of them raise a red flag anywhere Are there 1,555 craft taking one person each day for a period of 50 years?
Nobody noticed?
Yes.
Yes, you can't see them.
When that gravity envelope is around the craft, you can't see it.
And usually they come at night.
Abductions invariably occur between 2 and 5 in the morning.
Would it be your view that these abductions are just a way of monitoring the progress or lack of it or something or another with regard to the overall experiment?
They pick up children at the age of between 3 and 4.
That's the first time.
And then between 6 and 7 is the second time.
Then one more time about 13 and then that's it.
Abductions that occur after that are for different reasons.
I don't know what those reasons are, but that's basically when abductions occur.
Do you know what the reasons are with regard to the abductions that occur at those?
Just monitoring, checking.
It's a monitor check type deal.
The children fully consciously enjoy the experience.
They think it's neat going to the moon.
They're told this and that.
It's a matter-of-fact deal.
And the other explainable, inexplicable things we have, like, well, abductions and then, you know, crop circles and animal mutilations.
The animal mutilations, I would presume, same motives?
No, I don't know too much about that.
You know, when I first got into this, Linda Howe did that excellent video.
Oh, yes.
What was it called?
There you go, Spike.
There's my Teflon mind again.
Alien Harvest, right?
Alien Harvest, yeah, of course.
Excellent.
And scary, too.
An interesting thing, when Linda and I hooked up in Albuquerque, we drove down to see Clifford Stone.
we took the exact road are corona
to the uh...
the guy's ranch uh... the uh... took the road it goes over and get picks up
the road at roswell
and uh... we get halfway
and there is like thirty dead cows around there
and i i couldn't believe it here i am a window we're in the middle of a desert.
I think I can recall her talking about that.
In the day.
Right in the middle of it.
Boom!
She ran right into it.
I think I remember that, yes.
I'm looking around and I saw one or two and then she stood up on the hood of the truck and says, there's got to be three of them here.
And so we drove down the road, south on the road that went to, what's his name, Dranche, what's his name?
Brazel?
And we go down maybe 10-15 miles and we went into a rancher and we asked him if he knows anything about the dead cows.
He said, yeah, they died of whatever it was.
I forget, but Linda knew.
So anyway, we go down and see Clifford Stone.
She goes back home.
I go back home and she called later and she said, you know, I checked with a veterinarian and he said there's no possible way it could have been that disease because he He told me, the vet told me, that there would have been a cordon around that place at 10 miles if that had been so.
Now, let me make it clear that there were no typical animal mutilation type deals like eyeballs carved out.
They were just dead?
They were just dead.
That's a continuing gigantic mystery as would be the crop circles.
Obviously some are hoaxed and absolutely obviously many are not.
Any thoughts on crop circles?
I range from testing, you know, space-based lasers and that sort of thing to Aliens, myself, in my thinking, and I suppose most people who think about this do, are just simply an anomaly of nature or some kind of message from the Earth itself.
I don't know.
I don't even have a good theory, but all I remember about the crop circles is when Doug and Dave tried to say that they were responsible, and it was just so irritating to see a story picked up by the press, and you know, and Ballyhooed is, yeah, yeah, they admitted it.
Which didn't, you know, apply to any other crop circles around the world, or if they had, they certainly made good time getting from country to country.
Well, you know, when you talk about the press, I mean, that's a good subject all by itself, too, John.
I have never really had anybody approach me who said, you know, you do one more show like the one you just did, whatever it was, and And you are someone you know is toast.
I've never been, no one's ever tried to affect me in that way.
And so I've always wondered, everybody thinks there's a big conspiracy with regard to the press.
I don't know.
There isn't.
There's no conspiracy with the press.
They just don't want to write or do anything with this subject because they have to report to whoever they work for.
That guy's going to say, hey, look, drop it.
I'm not interested in that.
And the only guy that we know that was not swayed was George Knapp, until he got into so much trouble over, and I forget what it was, and now he doesn't mention very much about it at all.
He does not much anymore, does he?
No, I think Bob Stoldal said, look, you want to come back to work for Channel 8, I don't want to hear another friggin' thing about UFOs.
Did it?
Well, they did, actually.
Too long ago they did this thing on Inside Area 51.
I don't know if you saw that.
I saw it.
I was really disappointed.
So was I. Great.
Here we are going to get to see it.
Here we see, you know, that it's an old shot and not an old shot.
I thought, oh, when I saw the trailer, I thought, oh my God, they've gotten cameras inside Area 51.
You know, I went out of my way to see it and I, too, went, ah, geez.
You know, it just, it was, well, how would you explain what they showed us?
They showed us this sort of, I don't know, mock-up?
Yeah, it was a three-dimensional moving display of, you know, a photograph.
What it would have, what would it be like, I guess, something like that.
Anyway, they didn't really get cameras in there.
Alright, we'll take a break here at the bottom of the hour and start to take calls for John Lear.
I want a time at the end here and we'll have plenty of it for your calls with John.
I'm Art Bell.
And I'm Art Bell.
I travel the world and the seven seas Everybody is looking for something Some of them want to use you Some of them want to get used by you Some of them want to abuse you Some of them want to be abused To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
line is area code 775-727-1222. To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll
free at 800-825-5033. From west of the Rockies, call Art at 800-618-8255. International callers
may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country Sprint Access number, pressing option 5, and
dialing toll free 800-893-0903.
From coast to coast, and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
I kind of feel like this song, Who Am I to Disagree?
and Sweet Dreams are made of this.
Who am I to disagree?
Really, who am I to disagree?
That we're an experiment?
That the moon was towed there for us?
That on the moon there's a machine that trades or transmits and receives souls?
Who am I to disagree?
There's no absolute proof, but there's some pretty strong indications that something's on the moon that somebody doesn't really want to talk about.
For me, that's indisputable.
Somebody says you ought to play that.
That song, aren't I?
Everyone's gone to the moon!
John, welcome back.
Thanks.
I just want to mention all the guys at the SETI team, Art Bell, wanted to say hello.
Oh, that's nice.
Boy, you're all over the internet, aren't you?
And Bad Boy at the Fantastic Forum came up with a name.
Wade Vandenberg was the guy that had the crush on my mom.
He was the MJ-12.
And he was always at the house.
So there were a lot of those guys around there, you know, all the time.
I guess my dad was very, very involved in it.
Apparently so.
Have you had an opportunity to go through his, you know, his things, his belongings, the family heirlooms, all that sort of thing?
Anything ever show up?
No.
As you know, we didn't get along.
And after he passed away, Mom donated everything to the Aviation Museum in Dallas.
And then they didn't do anything, so it was re-donated to the Seattle Museum of Flight.
And after she passed away, there was a few things left up there, but nothing that would have anything like that.
Can I ask, we're going to go to calls here, because a lot of people want to talk to you.
And the last time you were on, I didn't really give the audience a chance.
I hogged you.
But it's a personal question, John.
Thinking back, you had So much in common in so many ways.
I mean, you had aircraft, love of aviation, even if you didn't know it at the time, your dad's interest.
So much in common.
Why didn't you get along?
Well, the main thing that I can remember is he did not want me to be a pilot.
When I wanted to take flying lessons when I was 16, He had me out in the backyard on Saturday learning how to paint.
And I even remember the guy's name, Sidney Nesbitt.
And I had my easel there on the grass there at a house at 321 Alamo Real in Pacific Palisades.
And I had to spend all day mixing paint and painting on this piece of canvas.
But most fathers would want their children to follow in their footsteps.
Why would you think that?
You would think so?
I don't know.
But that's the way it was.
So.
All right.
Here we go.
First time caller line.
Hi.
Hello.
Hello, sir.
I think it is like.
Hello.
Yes.
Am I on?
Yes, you're on.
So you should start from the beginning.
It sounded like we joined you in mid conversation.
Yeah, I was rehearsing.
You were rehearsing.
You were rehearsing?
I have this interesting perspective of how to look at the instantaneousness of gravity.
Alright, well, rehearsal's over.
Okay, the real thing right now, right?
Yeah.
Okay, I think of it as being pervasive.
Just like if you had the handle of a sword as a body, like any mass, like a planet.
And the blade that extends from the handle would be like gravity.
It's all there, right there.
And you could move gravity, I mean, it would extend to, I guess, the farthest reaches of the universe.
In other words, gravity is everywhere, always.
Right, gravity is everywhere, always, just like that handle.
But you can move gravity sideways, just like if you moved the handle of the sword, the blade would move from side to side, right?
And that would be like the gravity So you have all these, um, you know, every little mass has its own pervasiveness of gravity.
Alright, well this man obviously, um, took my question to heart and thought hard about it.
Does he have a grasp on the way you think of gravity, John?
Um, no.
No.
No.
Then, uh, you make a shot at it, John.
Although we think of it as instantaneous, hard as that may be, how would you describe gravity?
It's instantaneous.
Yeah, I got that.
Is there anything else you can say about it that would help to understand the nature of it?
No, because I've been thinking about it since Bob told me about it.
I'm comfortable with it now.
I understand it.
But as far as explaining it, you know, it's just something that will come to you if you think about it enough.
Well, I will now.
You always leave me with these things to think about.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with John Lear and Art Bell.
Hi.
Hi, am I on the air?
You are.
Okay, hi.
I just have a quick question for John Lear.
It's great to finally speak with you.
Back when I was five, six, seven years old, I always had a feeling that, you know, these so-called aliens had something directly to do with The beings that people experience when they have a near-death experience or, you know, life after death.
Because, you know, people basically explain the same type of beings.
They either describe greys or beings of light.
And even military personnel have described seeing beings of light, you know, along with greys.
Yes.
And I was taken aback by what you said about what's going on on the side of the moon.
I think they do have something to do with the recycling of our souls.
I think that on a level that we cannot comprehend with the human mind.
And I think that our government knows that there's something about this, but they don't want to admit it because they don't want to give up the control that they have over people.
And I wanted to get your thoughts on that.
John?
I don't understand the question.
Well, I mean, do you agree with what I said?
I guess it was more of a statement.
He's saying that, yes, they control our souls, in fact, and that our government, or some portion of it, understands this and they don't want us to know that because that would yield or it would eclipse their control over us.
Yeah, that's probably right.
That was a yes, caller.
Great.
All right, thank you very much for the call.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Lear.
Hi.
Hey, it's Mike.
Hey there.
Hey, I'm calling from Newport, Delaware.
Newport, Delaware.
Welcome.
WDL.
Yes, sir.
Yeah, he's talking about the Earth being towed, right?
No, the moon.
I mean, excuse me, the moon being towed.
Was the Earth towed, too?
I don't know.
If you think about it, Art, your chuckle gives it away.
I didn't chuckle.
Well, your chuckle is very funny, all right?
I'm glad you enjoy it, but on this occasion, I didn't chuckle.
You've been chuckling pretty much all through this interview.
Well, maybe I, you know, in a way, I can't grasp all of this.
And you know what?
And wait a minute, wait a minute, let me finish.
I'm on a three second delay, but go ahead.
No, you're not.
I'm listening to you on the radio on the phone.
Well, don't listen to me on the radio.
I've turned it down.
Turn it off.
All the way off.
All the way off.
On the other hand, I don't reject it either.
It's as plausible as other explanations for why we're here and what we're about.
It is as plausible.
Ask your guest what religion he is.
Is he an atheist or something?
Well, you ask him.
Okay.
John?
Mr. Lear.
Are you there?
Does it matter?
Oh, of course it does.
Why?
What does a Christian and an atheist have in common?
I don't know.
What?
I don't think anything.
Except maybe different beliefs.
And what you're believing in just doesn't make any sense to me, alright?
Well, you know what, sir?
And I don't know where he got his information from, Mr. Bell, but your chuckle definitely gives it away.
Well, then you misinterpreted my chuckle.
Uh, which is what I was trying to explain to you before.
As a matter of fact, hey Art, I read about you in the paper just the other day.
Did you?
Yeah, and it's funny, in Delaware they would print up something about you, and the sad part about it wasn't really about you, it was about your son.
Yeah, I'm very well aware of the story, so what?
I mean, you know, why don't they print something nice about you and your family?
I don't know.
Because they're the press!
Why do you think?
That's what they do.
No, John, you know, if somebody were to come on the air and tell a story about tablets magically being burned in stone, about oceans being parted as the hands were raised into the air, about the earth being created in six days and resting on days, you know, if these stories were told, they wouldn't sound any wilder, any more over-the-top Then what you've been telling us about what could be our creation.
No, they wouldn't.
They would be just as unbelievable and hard to grasp as everything that you've been, maybe in a contemporary sense, what you've been saying is in a way more logical and easy to grasp than the story as it came from the Bible.
If you hear me chuckle, it's not laughing at anything John is saying.
It's probably more sort of a nervous chuckle myself when I realize that this could as easily be as anything else.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Lehren, Art Bell.
Hi.
Yes, Ken here, Imberian.
Hey there.
Well, just for the record, I've probably heard more programs on Coast to Coast than any of your listeners, for whatever that's worth.
Now, that gives you my background.
John, there is a video that has been published or run in Canada and then Japan, which I have copies of, called The Dark Side of the Moon.
Now, it's an incredible video, which shows Kissinger, Donald Rumsfeld, who was Secretary of Defense some 30 years ago, whatever, Ahead of NASA, on and on, plotting this concept of making the movie with Stanley Kubrick and all that.
And it proves, without doubt, it was fabricated in case it didn't pull off.
Now, I know this sounds fantastic, but I've got the video.
They're publishing it elsewhere.
I would love to send it to you for your observation.
And look it over.
Now, Norrie seems to be resistant to look at it.
He's been asked if he wanted to see it.
I can probably see why, but because he thinks we went.
Now, have you, do you know the movie, the video I'm talking about?
I think he does, and if he doesn't, I do.
I don't.
You don't.
Okay, John, there is a whole covey of people, I mean quite a large number of people actually, who don't think that we ever went to the moon, and they will cite a sort of a long litany and list of evidence You know, that, well, you know, the spacesuit could not have managed to fit through this portal, or, you know, the flag didn't wave right, or any one of zillions of things.
They'll say they would have died in the radiation belt.
All kinds of things they say, trying to say that we did not go to the moon.
And I'm sure you've heard some of that.
So, do you buy into any of it?
No, I think I can understand where the problem arises because some of the footage certainly was fake for various reasons.
But they did go to the moon.
There's no doubt in my mind.
The place that you begin to differ is with respect to what they saw when they got there.
That's right.
There was knowledge of what was on the moon before the astronauts reached the moon.
Yes, because what happened is when they sent the first ships there, you know, they couldn't get it right.
They either missed it or they crashed in the moon.
And the reason was is because they didn't realize the true gravity of the moon.
Everybody accepts that it's one sixth out of Earth, but it's not.
It's 64 percent.
And when they got that right, then they started getting everything the rest right.
But the thing is, they couldn't tell that to the public.
The fact that it has 64% instead of 1.6 is the reason when you saw pictures of the astronauts jumping, they could at best do a foot, maybe 18 inches.
And then when they went on walks, they were just simply I've never heard that before.
Certainly we cannot see any atmosphere on the moon.
Can we?
From Earth?
and there is an atmosphere on the moon. It's equal to about 18,000 feet on Earth.
As a matter of fact, they could have taken off their helmets and breathed for a little while.
Oh my God. I've never heard that before.
Certainly we cannot see any atmosphere on the moon. Can we?
From Earth?
Yeah. Oh well. Through very large telescopes.
I mean, I've never seen anything depicting what seemed to be even anything remotely, you know, foggy or... Well, there's certainly clouds up there, and I don't know whether you had a telescope powerful enough to see it.
There's clouds on the moon?
Or above the moon?
Yeah.
That's a pretty hard concept, John.
There's an atmosphere on the moon, which includes You know what I refer you to and what my favorite photograph is and what I have hanging behind me in the form of, I think it's a format of, it must be more than 16 by 20, it's about 2 feet by 2 feet, but I purchased Lunar Orbiter 2-162H, which was a photo of Copernicus.
It's taken in a bleak And you're looking directly at the inside of the craters of Copernicus.
It is so neat, because this is the first photo that I got that essentially was unretouched for this reason.
When NASA started retouching photos in 1967 to eliminate all the offending material, what they do is they take a picture of that, and then that would be the photo that they'd hand out to the public.
A few escaped attention, but what What didn't escape attention was NASA in 1967 never realized or couldn't conceive that in 1995 and the 2000 that we would have computers that could take a negative or, you know, an actual photograph and digitize it and, you know, enlarge it to something, you know, they had no idea.
So these days, we can take negatives that they thought were safe.
of offending material, and enlarge it and see all kinds of wonderful things.
Now on the side of this photo, Lunar Orbiter 2-162H, there are a number of silos which obviously contain vapor, and in some of them the vapor is going up, and in some of them the vapor is going down.
Really?
Now you have to have atmosphere to have vapor.
And also, on one of those cliffs is what we call the parking garage.
And if I can find it here, what I'm going to do is read you Bob Lazar's statement, which I have signed, and it's dated August 23, 1996.
This is Bob Lazar?
Yes.
Okay.
And when I first started to bring to his attention all this stuff on the moon, he wrote this statement that says, I, Bob Lazar, promise to kill myself If any of John's moon stuff is true, find Bob Lazar, August 23rd, 1998.
Okay, now, here's his statement on August 5th, 1998, after showing him the parking garage on the top of Copernicus.
You know, I'm just kidding.
It's a three-story.
It looks like a three-story building with a ramp on the side of it.
Okay.
But he says, I, Bob Lazar, in return for not having to honor my commitment to kill myself
if any of John's moon stuff was true, do freely admit that the object in the crater Copernicus
on the moon, saved as apple crate, is a box which I don't know what is doing there.
Signed, Bob Lazar.
Oh, John, you really have those two documents from Bob.
Garageful.
Bob, of course, I've interviewed now many times.
He's the skeptic of all skeptics.
Well, he absolutely is.
He's not going to believe something unless it's hands on.
And that's why last time you interviewed him, you know, he said, you know, I think John Lear is crazy.
But unfortunately, some of his stuff is crazy enough to be true.
Well, when you ask him about aliens, he'll say, never saw one.
When you ask him about anything alien related, sorry, don't know anything about it, never saw it, can't tell you anything about it.
Of course he did see all those alien craft up at Area 51, but anything he didn't see with his own eyes or touch, he wouldn't have a thing to do with it.
You know, I'd sure, I'd love to have copies of those.
Sure.
Hold on, we're at the top of the hour.
My guest is John Lear.
I had no idea those documents existed.
you Trees sway in the summer breeze Showing off their silver
leaves As we walk by, kisses on a summer's day Laughing in our
care and way, just you and I And the sweet sleep you want loves summer nights Gazing at
the distant lights in the starlit sky They say that all good things must end someday All the
leaves must fall But don't you know that it hurts me so To say goodbye to
you Wish you didn't have to go.
To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
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From coast to coast and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
It is, and we are discussing the Almost unimaginable, aren't we?
That it might not be as we all thought.
That it might be something else entirely.
That we, our souls, might be something other than what we had thought them to be.
At least you have to hold the doubt, certainly, as a possibility.
And when you look at the U.S.
space program, you have to wonder about a lot of things.
I'm putting you together with John Lear, coming up next.
I've got to admit, the atmosphere on the moon thing got me, uh...
John, if there was atmosphere on the moon, then there would be transmission of sound, wouldn't there?
Yes.
So there is transmission of sound on the moon?
If there's atmosphere.
Somebody just brought up a good point that if there was atmosphere Well, I'll have to bring it up later.
I've got my tough line going again.
All right.
You're watching, no doubt, feedback up on the forum or something, aren't you?
Yes, I can tell.
First time caller on the air with John Lear.
Good morning.
Hello?
Yes, hi.
I wanted to ask Mr. Lear if there was any relation between ghosts and what our souls are, and secondly, if he knows anything about Venus.
Thanks.
Okay.
Our Souls and Ghosts.
You know, there's an awful lot of paranormal stuff that really does go on that seem to involve people who were once living here on Earth and may have not been transmitted up as scheduled or something or another, John.
My opinion is that's exactly what happened.
If somebody dies an unscheduled, so to speak, death that hasn't been scheduled, that they can't make the pickup, That little bundle of energy goes around as a ghost and is trapped forever because I don't think there's any other way to bring them up.
Now, in my opinion, when there's a big disaster, in order to cover picking up the souls because of something that wasn't planned or whatever, they have apparently giant soul collectors come down.
Now, right after 9-11, I saw it, but there was a series of three photos taken by Gamma News Service, and it might still be on the Internet, and you could see over the towers a huge, I think it was rectangular-shaped object, and it's three photos, and it's in a different place.
I believe that those were soul collectors in order to pick up the souls that would have been lost if that hadn't been in place.
A lot of people who believe these things photographed called orbs might have something to do with souls, and there were, around the 9-11 disaster, an awful lot of those kind of photographs.
Yeah, could be.
Other people think they're just little reflections and different things, but these orbs seem pretty complex.
I've looked at them very carefully, and they're not easily I can't remember sitting in physics class staring out the window and couldn't figure out how the moon could not spin.
Is that what's termed a rotational lock, John?
I can't remember sitting in physics class staring out the window and couldn't figure
out how the moon could not spin.
Is that what's termed a rotational lock, John?
Yeah.
Wait, what did he say, Art?
Okay, he's saying you remember sitting in school wondering how the moon could not spin.
Talked about the rotational lock.
Right.
And your question, Culler?
You're suggesting that it's so unnatural as to be obviously artificial.
Yeah.
Okay, well that's a pretty good point, John.
Yeah, he's got that right.
That is, it is odd, isn't it, that it would be very, just fixed the way it is, exactly what we need, providing exactly what we need.
That is an interesting observation.
I want you to think about that one a little bit.
If the moon was trapped by, say, or if it was just passing by and went into, you know, got trapped by the Earth's gravity, it would be more of an elliptical orbit.
It wouldn't be perfectly round.
That's a very, very, very good point.
Alright, East of the Rockies, you're on there with John Lear.
Good morning.
Hello.
Hi.
Morris from Maine.
Yes, Morris.
Yes, and I have something quick to say and a question.
Okay.
Okay, Revelation 21, New Heaven and Earth.
The city is laid out as a square.
And it's length is as great as it's width, and he measured the city with a rod.
1,500 miles, it's length, width, and height are equal.
A box?
Yep.
Okay.
Yeah, and the question is, does John know anything about the branding?
I called you once before about it, and it's like a little stamp on the shoulder, size of a quarter, dots equal, and Like a little red dot like spaced apart like a sixteenth of an inch.
Does he know anything about that?
No, I don't know anything about that.
Okay, so apparently some sort of something that were branded he's suggesting as cattle would be when we're abducted or dealt with in some way.
No, I haven't heard anything about that.
Okay.
Was the Rockies.
You're on the air with John Lear.
Good morning.
Good evening, gentlemen.
This is Dot in Salt Lake City.
Hi, Dot.
I have a question.
It's going to be hard for you because I want you to tell me perhaps what I saw late at night in the sky and actually it's more or less what I did not see.
This is a phenomena to me because I always go out about 10 or 11 and walk the dog and it's most shocking because when I looked up I saw nothing but I could see the air in the form of a V moving From north to south but there was nothing there visible for me to see except the only way I can describe it if you have a boat that is going through water very slowly you can see the water in a form of a V that flips back behind the boat.
Absolutely.
That is what I saw in the sky and I don't I've never taken drugs and I don't drink but I know what I saw that night and I stood there I looked at it the shocking part about it was it was extremely low Very close to my looking up.
It was not really way high up at all.
It was low, like over, maybe three stories high, just over roof tops.
Right.
And I could see this V form and just keep going through the sky, but there was nothing there.
What did I see?
A UFO.
Yeah, you saw a UFO.
That's right.
I've had my two great sightings, one really spectacular, John, and the other still spectacular, just not as close, but both were amazing.
These UFOs that are seen now, we're finding out, in every nation on Earth, I mean, all the Russian files and all the Chinese files and all the, in the Netherlands, Africa, God, everywhere in the world, John, they're everywhere.
Are these many species, are they all monitoring us?
Are we the big prize, the souls?
Is that the deal?
I don't know.
That is one theory.
You know, there's so many different kinds of craft.
The one that's been most intriguing is the JAL incident of the Japan Airlines 747 doing the over the pole flight and coming down into Anchorage and doing the circle at Fairbanks.
And the drawing, I have the full report that somebody did on it, and the drawing the captain made of this ship that was three times, at least three times the size of a battleship.
And it looked like a giant walnut.
And it's, you know, it was so immense, so detailed, you know, the whole crew drew their concept of it.
I remember the wire story on it, John.
And you remember Phil Klass said it was the planet Venus?
Yeah, yeah, well.
And the only thing I was wondering is, it sure would be interesting if that was like a one or two man craft.
Yes.
But all you can do is speculate about so many craft in our atmosphere.
I mean, obviously, some percentage of them are probably, you know, government test programs, government planes, government whatever.
But an awful lot of it obviously also is not.
So we are being visited, and the great question is, why?
You can't answer that one.
Who?
You can only partially answer that one, because it would appear to be a whole different group of people visiting us, John.
Yeah, as I've said many times, I estimate there must be at least 80 different species, and I base that on the different types of aliens that people have seen, the different types of craft.
All it does is beg questions.
Are they fighting with each other?
Are they simply all observing us?
Well, there are definitely incidents of them fighting each other because there have been eyewitness reports of one UFO shooting down another UFO.
Also, reports, John, of our shooting at UFOs.
Do you have any comments on that?
I mean, there really are quite a few documented incidences of our shooting at UFOs.
Yeah, we did that.
Quite a bit.
And of course, the most famous one was the Thomas Mantel incident.
What was that?
That was the one where he was flying the P-51 over Kentucky.
And he said, you can't imagine how big this thing is.
I'm climbing to get it.
And then they found the wreckage of the P-51.
It was a very famous incident.
I can't remember the exact name of it, but it was Thomas Mantel.
And it was in Kentucky.
And they found the remnant of the P-51 with damage, whatever they shot at
it, there was damage at the craft.
Do you think that, I mean we are getting more sophisticated weapons all the time, John.
There's even some evidence that, you know, I'm sure you've seen the STS-50 stuff.
I'm sure you've seen some of the other STS video in which it appears as though somebody Yeah, I wish I had Bob Lazar's comment on it because, you know, I was convinced that that was something other than ice particles.
But boy, you couldn't sell that to Lazar.
I mean, he just said, no, those are ice particles.
Did he offer you some sort of suicidal paper on that one?
I have the paper, you know.
God, that's funny.
I'd love to see this.
On the international line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Hi.
Hi, how are you doing?
All right, sir.
Where are you?
I'm in Toronto.
Toronto.
AM640 module radio.
Of course.
Thanks for taking my call, guys.
That was a great show.
I was wondering if you had any idea that Gravity might be some kind of a living force.
We lose him?
Are you there?
I think I'm still here.
You are there, okay.
I'm trying to find out if you think that maybe gravity would be some kind of a living force and if time was also part of the grand experiment.
Did he say living force?
Living force.
Could gravity be some sort of living force is what he said.
And your second question, sir?
I was wondering if maybe time and the moon is all part of the grand experiment that we all seem to be part of.
All right, well, I'd love to get John's thoughts on time, anyway.
Time is kind of a wonderful and strange thing to think about.
Does it wrap into anything that you've heard anything about through all this, John?
I came up with the formula for the speed of time.
Bob helped me with the wording, but I believe it went, the speed of time is directly proportional
with the gravity flux.
In other words, the more the gravity, the less the speed.
And I might have to say inversely proportional.
But the speed of time is inversely proportional with the gravity flux.
The more intense the gravity, the less the speed.
Oh, isn't that interesting.
All right.
Wes for the Rockies, you're on the air with John Lear.
Hello.
Yeah.
This is Bob in Lebanon, Oregon.
I had a couple of things I wanted to throw out to John and see what he thinks about it.
One is, I think it's a prime example of the unified field, is the black hole.
And the other is, I've believed for about 40 years that, you know, the elements, they become unstable or radioactive.
But I believe that after you reach a certain plateau, they become stable again.
And through this, I think you'd find all kinds of bizarre characteristics, you know, like metals that would be clear, like glass, and some would be, say, shields.
I do believe that.
There is a theory, I think, that as you go through the table of elements, if you were to keep going, you'd go through a group of unstable elements and then they would begin to get stable again.
Is that what you're talking about?
Right, yeah.
I've believed that for about 40 years.
That's like with the element 115.
I kind of wondered what you thought about that.
That's correct.
They do get stable.
110 up until it's stable at 115, then they become unstable again.
116 is unstable.
Pump protons into 115, when one plugs in, becomes 115.
116 instantaneously decays, and that's the instability.
Do you think that if we were to acquire the technological capability to manipulate gravity,
John, and then we were to begin to travel outside our neighborhood, so to speak, that
we would be stopped?
Thank you.
Thank you.
Well, I don't know.
I think we have some form of gravity manipulation now.
I mean, we could not have.
We've been working on it so long.
There is some form of it.
But I'm not sure where there's the... I'm positive it's not to the extent where we're going to go visit any other solar systems.
We might be able to cruise around the moon and maybe a trip to Mars here and there, but certainly not the type of thing that Bob looked at at the test site.
But even if just part of this is true, John, about the ability, for example, to manipulate gravity, that would lead To another power source that the world astoundingly badly needs and that's something else Steve Greer talks about and that's, you know, that part of what Steve Greer is after I'm really interested in.
You know, he talks about the drive of these craft that you're also talking about and that that would mean an energy source for a world that's about to run out of energy.
This is really important stuff, isn't it?
Right, but I don't think we're going to We're not about to run out of energy, and I don't think that type of advanced type of power would ever trickle down to the public.
You don't think so?
No.
So if that's what they're counting on, it ain't going to happen.
Perhaps we're not going to run out of energy in the immediate, but there is sort of an end to this fossil fuel thing, at least at a price that we can all afford.
So, there's going to have to be something that comes around the bend or, you know, predictably there are going to be wars, terrible wars over energy and food and all the things that we'll run out of.
Well, hopefully they'll be cleaning out the Petri dish long before we run out of fossil fuels.
Back to that again.
You really think?
That they're going to do that.
Hey, it's an opinion, all right?
Yes.
And you are right that about, what is it, every 25,000 years or whatever the cycle is, there is something that comes along that does appear to do that.
Right.
And you feel we're very close to that point.
In fact, you're sort of fatalistic about it, aren't you?
Yeah, if it happens, it happens.
I'm ready to go back to the machine and the moon, and I'm sure they'll gather up everybody and put them back in the cube on the moon while everything happens, and then the cycle starts again and they send us all back for whatever the next experiment is.
That's an entire belief system, John.
It really is, isn't it?
I never thought about it that way, but yeah, now that you mention it.
What is it?
It's like a religious belief system, John?
There's no question about it.
All right, hold tight.
We're at the bottom of the hour.
This is Coast to Coast.
The tale would begin Now that you're gone
Needles and pins Why that you're gone
Watching black clouds Till you return
Hiding in that forest And watching you burn
Now it begins Day after day
This is my life Be it sight, be it sound, smell, touch, the sun, think, it
all is one.
Inside that we need so much.
The sight of a touch, or the scent of a sand, or the strength of an oak when it moves deep in the ground.
The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing.
To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing.
To have all these things in our memories haunt.
And to use them to cover us.
And they used them to count us to five.
Oh I say so, take this place, on this trip, just call me.
Run, take a pillow, drink my ice, up on the street, it's for free.
Wanna take a ride? To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1295.
To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free 800-825-5033.
From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
from east of the Rockies call toll-free 800-825-5033. From west of the Rockies call 800-618-8255.
International callers may recharge by calling your in-country telephone.
Years ago, when I first interviewed John, we then tended to talk about an awful lot of hardware.
8 9 3 0 9 0 3 from coast to coast and worldwide on the internet this is
Costa Costa am with art bells funny years ago when I first interviewed John
we then tended to talk about an awful lot of hardware you know the hardware
aspect of all of this the the gravity amplifiers the manner of space travel
and that this UFO sightings that sort of thing And toward the end of that series of interviews that I did with John, he began to talk about human beings as containers.
And that's kind of where we left it.
He said, you know, do you know Maury as well?
I'm not going to tell you about that because you wouldn't believe it or it's too crazy or whatever.
Well, tonight, the rest of this story has sort of unwound, and to me it does add up to a belief system.
A kind of a belief system.
It replaces for John, obviously, what many Christians believe to be the reason that we're here, and all the rest of it.
And I wonder if John finds it to be a satisfactory belief system.
If he's satisfied, comforted by the knowledge that Well, he obviously believes this.
I wonder if it is satisfying.
It is interesting.
All those years ago, that's kind of where we left off.
And I just sort of understood tonight that I'm hearing the rest of the story.
The whole rest of the story.
And it does amount to a belief system.
As Christians believe what is said in the Bible.
You, John, obviously from all the reading and research you've done, you believe this.
So, I guess the question is, do you find what you believe to be true about our nature and all you've said tonight, do you find that a satisfying It works for me.
I'm certainly not trying to sell it to anybody else.
I don't have any videotapes to sell.
I don't have a website.
I'm not selling a book.
I don't intend to write a book.
However, if I did write a book, the name of it would be, The First Hundred Dumbest Things I Ever Did in an Airplane.
But I'm not going to be writing that for a while.
Tim, fast blast me the following from L.A.
Art, if what John is saying is true, why love?
Why live?
Why should we strive for something that's merely a facade or distraction so we wouldn't find out that we're merely containers for some alien race?
Why not just die and end the experiment?
Well, certainly that's been an old question that's been asked for many hundreds and thousands of years.
Why live?
I can't answer that except, you know, I just I enjoy life.
I love going up to the mine.
I love riding around in the countryside.
In two weeks, the hills of Gold Butte are going to explode with color and flowers, and it's just going to be just a wonderful time of the year, which I look forward to.
So, you know, I can't help anybody else.
Loose translation, you enjoy life.
Absolutely.
First Time Caller line, you're on the air with John Laird and Art Bell.
Good morning.
Hi, my name's Matt.
I had a question for you.
I was wondering if you knew anything about the Yellow Book Project, where they captured an alien from Roswell and they interrogated him and wrote all the files in a yellow book.
You know what?
I think John actually knows a lot of the story of the aliens that did come into the possession of our government.
You know something about that, right, John?
Yeah, the Yellow Book, I think, was the original name for the Government Bible.
The Government Bible?
That's where they keep the history of all the Christ retrievals and what was retrieved and what they found out about it.
Was Bob Lazar, did he read that government Bible?
I don't know whether he read that.
he was giving a you know about a hundred so of briefings and they were you know anywhere from two to
ten pages long and just an overview of
kind of different of wildcard liner on the road on their own
well i are you fine where are you
uh... temporarily on the enrichment virginia heading into richmond virginia
Oh, okay.
On the fly.
Okay.
Yeah, on the fly.
So, well, I'd like to say two things, and one is about the thought of the instantaneous gravity.
And I've done some studying my own, and I chose chemistry as my major because I think that chemistry over physics is just the personal belief that chemistry over physics is going to wind up being the determining science, the one that we We'll come to understand and how it affects our world and I understand it a little better than physics but instantaneously I have a feeling I keep going back to calculus and how when even as humans we try to understand an integral you take an integral of something and you still you get the integral and you still have to have a constant on the end and the constant is usually not solved for we just drop it off because
Well, you still have infinitesimally small rectangles underneath the function curve that you can never get the exact value.
And I keep going back to that and thinking that the instantaneous gravity includes that constant.
But that's just my thought about that.
You got me thinking about it, so I wanted to share it.
Sounds like quite a few of you out there took up the challenge.
It's really hard to even consider something that's instantaneous.
There is no speed to it.
It's instantaneous, which has to mean, I guess, that it was always there, it's here now, and will always be.
And I don't know any other way to try and grasp it myself.
That's a good analogy.
Yeah.
Do you think when people remote view, John, they seem to... They attach to that.
I'm glad you came up with that.
Because I've always thought that.
I thought the instantaneous gravity was directly tied into the remote viewing.
Well, because remote viewers always say that, that there's no barrier at all between the present, past, and the future.
Forward in time, backward in time, any place you want to go, except the moon.
Except the moon.
East of the Rockies, you're on there with John Lear.
Hi.
Hi, Art.
Hi, Mr. Lear.
How are you?
Hello?
I think he's fine.
Go ahead.
Okay.
I couldn't hear him.
This is Lee.
I'm calling from Pennsylvania.
I'm listening on WDEL.
Okay.
And I wanted to, first I want to make a comment before I ask my question.
I want to say that the John Lear test that you were playing before... Oh yes?
Yes, I do believe in disclosure even after hearing that because I think what you were saying about people, religious people pertaining to that, I think people who have strong religious beliefs are going to believe what they believe no matter what they hear from the government.
And my question for Mr. Lear is If you believe so strongly what you believe, and as Art said, it is a belief system, and you think that's really what's happening, and you're against disclosure, then why go on the radio and even talk about it?
Why tell people about it at all, if there's nothing we can do about it, and if you don't believe in disclosure?
I'm not so much against disclosure, I'm just telling you it ain't gonna happen.
But in a way, she poses a A good question.
On the one hand, yes, you're not against disclosure, but you're saying it's not going to happen.
On the other hand, you're trying to disclose, or you are disclosing, certainly what you believe and what this is all about.
No.
You just don't think it will ever happen?
No.
Okay.
That's a fair answer.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Lear.
Hello.
Good morning.
Good morning.
This is Dennis in Phoenix.
Hi, Dennis.
I've got a question.
First, I want to say I love tonight's show.
It's been inspiring.
If I've been chuckling, it's because I'm just tickled to think that this very well could all be true.
Well, it could.
Yeah, and I think that's why if somebody's sensing that you're chuckling hard, that you're just tickled at the thought that it could be.
I am, and I'm saying, heretically perhaps, that it's as logical, and maybe in modern times, more logical or more Well, I've got a question, and that is simply, John, what do you suspect about Venus that's contrary to what we've been told?
As I mentioned last time, I think it's a planet just like Earth.
There's beings probably very similar to us, and we're just not supposed to know about it.
There were several Navy research projects that went on in the late 50s.
That said that there was water vapor on the planet and it looked like, you know, that it could support life.
And those were quickly shut up.
And then, you know, the cover-up went into place that, you know, it was molten lava and it had 90 bars of pressure.
And they went to the point of going too far explaining there was methane on Venus.
You can just see some guy said, now, I want you to come up with a program that nobody is ever going to think that there is, you know, life on Venus.
Sure.
And they all stand around, well, how about molten lava?
That's good.
What else?
How about 90 bars?
That's a good one.
What else?
How about thunder and lightning?
Yeah, that's good.
What else?
You know.
Yeah.
All right.
International Line, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hello.
Hello.
Yeah, this is Ray from Redmond, California.
Oh, you're going to have to really yell, and you're on the wrong line, too.
I don't know how you got on this line.
Anyway, yell at us, because you're not allowed.
Okay, I'll yell at you.
I was just wondering, Mr. Lear is pretty much an empiricist.
Has he done any study over what Zachariah Zichin has written over the years?
What?
Who has written?
Zachariah Zichin.
Yeah.
Yeah, he's right on the money.
What I like about Sitchin, if he came to meet Lazar, and Lazar told me about this because I wasn't at the meeting, he said the one thing about Zachariah is he does all the reading and interpretation himself.
He doesn't believe anything else that anybody tells him.
He has to go and read the tablets or whatever he reads by himself and do the translation.
Alright, well then you know the Sitchin story, right?
In other words, you know that he believes that We were once gold miners, that we were put on earth to do the physical, drudgery labor of mining gold, and that we were actually designed for that purpose.
Right.
William Bradley came up with the same thing, the same theory in the Gods of Eden.
The thing that, you know, I drift around with regard to what I believe, but I do acknowledge that we all have this, and you can prove it to yourself.
This is something you can prove to yourself.
Go get a really solid gold coin.
They have to be an old one, because they don't make new ones around here.
And hold it in your hand, or hold a very high-quality gold nugget in your hand, and there's really something special about the human spirit and gold.
You will feel something special when you hold gold in your hands.
That's indisputable.
You try it yourself.
You know what I mean, John?
Absolutely.
There's something about gold, and I wonder if that's old and ingrained and genetic.
It could be.
That's my little offering.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Lear.
Hi.
Hi, this is Ken from Nashville.
Nashville, okay.
You, too, will have to yell at us.
You're not too strong.
Okay, I just wanted to ask.
John, well, I believe in God, and I respect his opinion, but if the aliens created us, who created aliens?
Okay, there you've got it, John.
There's a Christian saying he believes in God, and he believes in the possibility that God not only created us, but created the aliens as well.
That's certainly possible.
Like I say, the owners of the grays created them.
To monitor us.
It's like they were stamped out of a mold on Zeta Reticuli.
That was their only job, the Greys, was to take care of us.
And they're glorified robots.
So you don't for one second dismiss the possibility of a greater creative force?
Now what was that?
You don't dismiss the possibility of a greater creative force?
Absolutely not.
Who do you think made all this?
Well, that will satisfy many, in a way.
That's interesting, isn't it?
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Lear and Art Bell.
Good morning.
Hi, this is Ryan in Boise.
Hi, Ryan.
Anyways, I had some questions about, you were saying there were ships that collected souls, maybe, or something that collected souls and took them to the moon?
What about things that sow the souls?
How do the, at what point do the souls come into the vessel of the human?
Is it at birth, or during the I don't know.
I'm beginning to think it's when you're born.
If a soul is actually, the word John said was transmitted with respect to the usual procedure,
transmitted, the soul is transmitted to earth, at what point do you suppose John, the soul is transmitted to earth?
I don't know. I'm beginning to think it's when you're born.
But the fact is, you can have memories in the womb, but that doesn't necessarily mean you have a soul.
So, it's up for grabs.
You pick one.
So that contemporary argument will continue.
And of course, that argument's been going on for a long time.
Well, when the heart starts beating.
Well, at the moment you get spanked and draw your first breath, or at the moment of conception.
i know one lady i used to work for who said uh...
it's when it's when you say how you doing babe yeah
uh... it's uh...
you know it's it's always it's a pleasure to have you here john and when
you're here you always leave me with about a million things to think very deeply about and that's what you did tonight
I'm going to be thinking about the instantaneous nature of gravity now for a long time, and I'm going to be asking any scientific... So you haven't written any books or anything?
We can plug for you here at the end, huh, John?
Why are you not writing a book?
You obviously could.
I bet you've been approached.
No, I haven't.
And, you know, I'm really not interested in writing a book.
You know, one of the things is I reserve the right to change my mind.
And if you put something down on paper, you know, then change it.
They say, oh yeah, he changed his mind, you know, so.
Well, I'm glad you didn't demand that Bob take his life.
And it's really been a pleasure having you here tonight, my friend, and I don't know, we'll do it again.
I mean, these are incredibly different views than most people have, and a lot of people are going to be thinking about what you've said for a long time, so thank you.
Okay, thank you, Eric.
Take care, John.
That's John Lear, son of Bill Lear, and yes, a lot of what you heard tonight is very strange and amounts to a belief system of his own, doesn't it?
But the purpose of this program is to get you thinking about things that you don't normally think about.
That's what we're here for.
It doesn't mean that you adopt, believe, or grasp anything necessarily, or that you must grasp anything that is said here.
But no other forum gives people the opportunity to be exposed to this kind of information.
Strange as much of it may seem to you, There just simply is not another forum that will allow this kind of exploration.
So, I'm happy to have brought you John.
We'll do so again, and glad that he continued the rest of the story, as Paul would say, tonight, because believe me, about a decade or better ago now, John left me at about that point, that told that our bodies were nothing but containers.
Tonight, we found out much more about four watts How it happens, where it comes from, at least in the most immediate, our moon.
From the high desert, y'all have a great week ahead with George, I'm Art Bell.
Good night.
Midnight in the desert, shooting stars across the sky.
This magical journey will take us on a ride Filled with a longing, searching for the truth
Will we make it till tomorrow?
Will the sun shine on you?
Midnight in the desert, I'm a lesbian.
Ooh, a lesbian.
Ooh, a lesbian.
By the way, for those of you who don't know, that's Crystal Gale, of course, singing this song, which she sang for me.
You see?
She's a beautiful woman, in all ways that one can name, inside and out.
And it's quite a piece of music.
I'm getting endless requests about... Where can I get it?
Honestly, folks, I don't know.
Maybe on an album coming out soon.
Anyway, I wanted you to know that's Crystal Gale with a beautiful, beautiful voice.
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