Art Bell

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March 21, 2004 - Art Bell

02:53:02

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - John Lear - UFOs

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01:01:33

john lear

01:14:07

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		From the high desert and the great American Southwest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I beg all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the world's prolific time zones.
unidentified		We cover them all with this program called Coast to Coast A.M. I'm Ardon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's an honor to be here with you tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As it is, an honor to have the guest that I've got coming up right away.
unidentified		I wait one more time on the back end to get some phone calls.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And this is an extraordinary man you're about to hear from.
		His name is John Lear.
		He's the son of Bill Lear.
		Uh, the daddy of the Learjet.
		You know, the Learjet, right?
		We're gonna hear about some of that tonight and all kinds of topics that, trust me, you're not expecting.
		John Lear is quite a guy.
		And I'll tell you a little story.
		Actually, it's the truth.
		Back when I was doing a political talk show, 15 years ago?
		Something like that.
		I ventured for it at KWN in Las Vegas and thought, you know, God's is getting old.
		You know, everybody talks about this all the time.
		And I just, I can't do it for another five hours tonight.
		I used to do it five, even a six-hour show, six nights a week.
		And I thought, I've got to have a break.
		I've got to talk about something else.
		This is driving me crazy.
		And so that's when that's how all of this got started.
		John is how it all got started.
		I interviewed John Lear, and the audience just totally went berserk.
		I mean, John's been investigating ufology probably longer than any ufologist I know.
		John's been there a long, long time, out and back again.
		I mean, he worked for, well, he'll tell you all about this, but, you know, he flew big jets and big, big jets.
		And for a long time, he couldn't talk.
		He was fired once because of his discussion and talk about UFOs.
		He lost some jobs because of that.
		And so, you know, even the hardiest learn after a while that you open your mouth and you jeopardize your living.
		And so you close your mouth for a while.
		And he did for years, many years.
		John has not said a word.
		And we did a show here with John a few months ago, which was a smashed hit.
		Well, expect no less tonight.
		He's really something.
		in a moment, John Lear.
unidentified		John Lear Here from Las Vegas, Nevada is John Lear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John, welcome to the program.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Art.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Special hello to my friends at the Fantastic Forum.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now they know you're real.
		You know, the Forum Pirates, for a long time, some doubted, John, that it really was you posting up there.
		All that can end now.
		You know, the last time you were on, John, you did the famous, I don't know, 10-minute, whatever it was, disclosure thing.
		I, of course, picked that off, and I began affectionately calling it the Lear test.
		And so every time I'd get an advocate for disclosure on here, I play it for him until finally so many of them had heard it that they already had their answer formulated, so I stopped.
		But you absolutely got everybody's attention with that.
		You know, I'm not reading your bio and what you're all about this time, so instead, let's turn around this time.
		You tell us about John Lear.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I grew up in Santa Monica and Pasig Palisades, but moved to Geneva, Switzerland when I was 12, and then went to the International School of Geneva for a few months, and then to a couple of boarding schools, one of which was La Rosé, which is supposedly the School of Kings.
		I didn't make the king part.
		Moved back to Pacific Palisades and went to Chadwick Boarding School in the 10th grade and then University High, and then I graduated from Santa Monica High, and then moved back to Geneva and went back to Rosé for college prep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was it that was taking your family to Switzerland?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		My dad had a lot of electronic business and a lot of airplane electronics that he wasn't too successful in selling to the American United States Airlines.
		And he went over to Europe to see if he could sell it to those airlines.
		One concept he developed and built was the automatic landing of airplanes.
		And the Caravelle, which was built by Sud Aviation in France, was the first airplane to land 0-0.
		And that had to be autopilot.
		And, of course, my dad sold that company in 1960.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What does land 0-0 mean?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		No forward visibility and no ceiling.
		I mean, you can't see anything.
		The airplane just automatically lands itself and rolls out, and all the pilot has to do is put on the brakes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was that the forerunner of ILS?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		No, it used the ILS to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		All right.
		Fascinating.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		That's what was taking him back and forth and moving us back and forth.
		Went back to Geneva in 1960 and went back to that boarding school, but I didn't like that too much, so I went to work for my dad and my brother flying at Twin Beach that they had flying around for all these business deals.
		And then in June of 61, I was out, I had the Swiss aerobatic license and I was out doing aerobatics.
		And I made a slight miscalculation and crashed, and I had pretty severe injuries.
		I broke both legs in three places.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did you crash in?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		A Bucher Youngman.
		It's a Spanish-built German biplane.
		It was a beautiful little biplane.
		You can see them occasionally around.
		They're very rare biplanes.
		But it was my fault.
		I screwed up.
		But we try and profit from our mistakes.
		I got a letter from General Jimmy Doolittle shortly after the accident telling me about all the mistakes he had made, and all he did was try and profit from his mistakes.
		I have that framed on my wall.
		It's a two-page letter, and between it, I have a picture of him taking off the B-25 off the Kiddiocarrier to bomb Tokyo.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, I had the crash, and somehow I developed gangrene in both my legs and wounds and was sent to the Lovelace Clinic in August of 61.
		Now, Randy Lovelace, as you know, was a surgeon in 1947 at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, and the Air Force sent him back to Albuquerque, where he was from, to establish the Lovelace Clinic.
		And he did the original autopsies on, or some of the autopsies, on the aliens that were recovered in Roswell.
		Randy Lovelace was on the board of Lear Incorporated, my dad's company, and dad was on the board of the Lovelace Clinic.
		It was interesting how close I was to what was going on, but didn't have the slightest idea.
		Then I moved to, recovered and moved to West Los Angeles and worked selling sheet metal bending, and then decided to go to the Art Center and study industrial design, which I did for about a year.
		Then went back to Geneva to see my girlfriend and ended up getting married and going back to work for my dad in Wichita, Kansas, who was now building the Learjet.
		And I was director of PR.
		But I loved working on things, and I ended up working graveyard shift fucking rivets on the Chief's Lodge number one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, John, if you know, I mean, how did your dad just decide, well, I mean, where did it come from?
		We're going to build the Learjet.
		I mean, where did that come from?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		He built the Lear Star, which was a twin-engine airplane, Lodestar, Lockheed Lodestar.
		And he actually just modified the Lockheed Lodestar into an executive transport.
		And he made it go, you know, a few miles an hour faster, and it was very plush and everything.
		And they built about 62 of them, but there was a lot of crashes.
		And he got the idea to build a business jet in 1957 or 1958 and asked the board of directors for the money, and they wouldn't give it to him because of all the problems they'd had with the Lear Star.
		So he sold his stock in Lear Incorporated to Siegler.
		It became Lear Siegler.
		And he formed the Swiss American Aviation Company to build the Lear jet, which was going to be built in Switzerland because he thought there was great engineers and lots of materials, which he found out were wrong.
		He spent about two years in Altenrine in Switzerland trying to get it going, but it just didn't work.
		And that's why I moved to Wichita, because there was engineers available, talent available to get the thing moving.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it sure moved.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it did.
		And I went there.
		I worked for PR and worked in PR.
		And the first flight was in October 1963.
		I flew Chase in our Cessna 320 Skynight, which, of course, couldn't keep up with the jet, but we got some pictures, and it was really an exciting time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow, it must have been a lot of fun.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		But I wanted to fly more, and I couldn't fly because I wasn't qualified as a test pilot, so I moved to Opalaca, Florida, and worked as the editor for an aviation news magazine called Aero News, which we moved out to El Segundo in California.
		And that folded, and I went to work as a flight instructor at Hawthorne Airport and then Van Euys and was finally hired at the Flying Tiger Line to fly their Learjet.
		And this is in 1964.
		There was another guy there, an old pilot that was actually the chief pilot of the executive division who I worked for.
		And in November of 65, he crashed with seven people on board just outside of Palm Springs.
		And it was a really terrible accident.
		It was entirely his fault, not the airplane's fault.
		But anyway, I ended up running that part of the executive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you flew the Learjet for how long, John?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Well, see, I got checked out in 64.
		So I haven't flown it recently, but that's 40 years.
		I had 1,800 hours in the airplane, which is not a lot.
		There are Learjet pilots around with 15,000 and 20,000 hours of Learjet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Still in all, I would imagine the executives that got to fly with you wouldn't have been exactly unhappy to hear that John Lear was flying their Lear.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		You could say that.
		Yeah, pretty cool.
		And then in March 23rd, on May 23rd, 1966, Hank Beard, who was chief of engineering flight test, Rick King, a factory pilot, John Zimmerman, an NAA observer, and myself left Wichita Municipal Airport, and we flew around the world setting a world speed record.
		We made 17 stops, and the total lapsed time was 65 hours and 38 minutes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, that kind of thing, John, has just got to be flat-out fun.
		I know work, but I mean, really fun for anybody who loves flying.
		I'm trying to set a world speed record.
		That's right up there.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		You know, I had never been around the world.
		I knew a little bit about it, but it was exciting for me.
		And, you know, there's only three pilots, so, you know, you were either sleeping or flying, which was great.
		And we went to all these different places, and it was a really exciting flight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know you've won up the Reno Air Show.
		Excuse me.
		You've been participating in the Reno Air Show a lot.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, in 1967, I raced the Sport biplane class.
		In 1968, I raced the Douglas B-26, which was a medium bomber, And it was the largest airplane ever raced at Reno.
		And I came in fifth out of six airplanes, having passed a North American P-51, at which point I understand that there was three fighter pilots that committed suicide off the back of a grandstand.
		Having a bomber pass a fighter.
		And that is just a no-no.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so all your life flying, really.
		Are you flying now?
		You're not, are you?
		How much do you miss it?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		No, not at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, not at all, really?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		I'm tired of it.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		It's a pain in the butt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought that never left your blood, John.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		No.
		No, I'm tired of worrying about the runway incursions.
		I'm tired about constant worry of altitude bus.
		I'm glad I'm done with it.
		It's for younger guys, and I just don't think that fast anymore, and it is just a constant struggle not to mess up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's a gigantic jump from where we are right now to what we're going to talk about, and we need some kind of bridge.
		For those who are just tuning in tonight, and inevitably there are many since there are millions, John, they're not going to know your connection to ufology.
		In a nutshell, what is your connection to ufology?
		I mean, obviously, you're, you know, a mainstream pilot, a test pilot, you're aviation all your life.
		Where does ufology jump into the middle of that?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		I was always kind of interested in it, but I didn't think it was real.
		As a matter of fact, there's a letter that circulates on the internet that John Andrews, who is the vice president of Testers Corporation and who made the F-117 stealth fighter, he and I used to communicate a lot.
		As a matter of fact, I'm the one that gave him the original information on the F-117.
		And we were talking about UFOs one day, and I said, forget it, John, it's not real.
		And that letter is somewhere on the internet.
		But what happened, and I was interested in it, but it just didn't seem to be any evidence.
		I walked into a friend's house in 19, I think it was 85, 84, 85, and there was a book called Missing Time by Bud Hopkins.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, of course.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		And that was, I read that book, and I knew that that was real.
		I mean, it sent shivers up my spine, and that's what started everything.
		I was flying out of New York at the time, commuting to New York, and the first thing I did was call up Bud Hopkins and go over to his place, and it was kind of funny because I came off a transatlantic flight at JFK, and I had made an appointment to go to his apartment.
		I showed up with my flight bag and a huge suitcase, and he said, what's going on here?
		How long do you think you're going to be staying?
		And I said, you know, just a few minutes.
		I said, I just came to the airport and I have no other place to put this.
		But I ended up staying a few hours and having dinner with him and his family.
		And actually going, he did an attempted regression.
		He said, for this kind of interest that you have, there had to be something that, you know, you have to be involved somehow.
		We didn't find anything then and never did.
		I have my suspicions.
		But that's what started it all.
		And then, boy, I just, you know, it was so interesting, one lead after the other.
		And once I, let's see, that was 85, 86, 87.
		I had to have an operation on my foot.
		And while I was recovering and not flying, I got in my truck and drove around southwestern United States, interviewing and talking to people, you know, who wouldn't talk on the phone.
		I met the famous Ernie Edwards there at Kirkland Air Force Base.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so by then you're really beginning to get interested.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I hooked up with Linda Howe and Albuquerque, and we drove together down to Roswell and met with Clifford Stone.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		And it was just a very interesting period.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And how did Clifford impress you, by the way?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Very, you know, very spooky.
		I mean, I walked into, you know, I had known him, walked into his house there, and at that time he looked out the back.
		He said, see that black car?
		And this black car sped away.
		He said, they've always got me under surveillance.
		And just, you know, little things like that happening all the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Still, though, there wasn't anything direct for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, all those years flying, and you never saw anything.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Only once that I remembered much later, and that was in 1966.
		I was making a long, leisurely afternoon descent into Los Angeles from back east.
		And over Palm Springs, I had started my descent out of 41,000, and I guess I was like 35 or 34,000 descending.
		And from, I'm going westbound from left to right, this object went in front of the airplane, and I just told the co-pilot, I said, look, that's an M2F2, the lifting body.
		And only years later, I mean, that was 66, maybe 25 years later, did I realize how ridiculous that was to think that an M2F2 would be going across the major flight path into Los Angeles?
		And when I think about it now, I said, what could I have possibly been thinking?
		I actually got on the ground and called Hank Baird, who was chief of engineering flight test, and said, you know, made the casual remark, hey, I saw an M2F2 today.
		So that was the one thing I saw, the only thing I saw until I was Lazar out in the desert and saw the saucer at Groom Lake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're going to be commenting on a lot of things tonight that I don't see how you could know unless you had, God, I don't know, John, a dialogue of some sort with extraterrestrials.
		I mean, some of this stuff, how are you going to know it?
		I mean, I suppose we'll get to that as we go through it, but it seems like you would have to have almost first-hand knowledge of the aliens, their intent, their motivations, what they're all about, to know some of this.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Interesting, but I don't know of any ETs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't know of any ETs?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		What I know of ETs, I don't know any personally.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay.
		For example, we're going to discuss mankind being an experiment.
		That's knowledge that how did you come to know this how do you know that?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Well, first of all, uh on this you have to cut to the chase right from the beginning.
		To understand what's going on, you have to understand that in the beginning, the moon did not spring forth from the Pacific Ocean.
		The moon was not passing by Earth and captured by its gravity and locked into rotational lock.
		In the beginning, the moon was towed here from somewhere else and placed by a very large machine into orbit around the Earth in rotational lock.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well see, that's a really good one right there and an example of exactly what I'm talking about.
		That's sort of a creation-like statement, isn't it?
		How the moon got here.
		It didn't bounce out of the Pacific.
		They don't match up.
		It was towed here.
		Toad here.
		That's a very creation-like statement, isn't it?
		So in a moment we'll ask where that knowledge comes from.
unidentified		Abumba, Abumba, Abumba You live in my sabbalaninado Abumba Can you hear my heartbeat in this form?
		Abumba, Abumba, Abumba You know that behind all this gone.
		Let's get it, it's a yaka me, hey, hey, hey, come on me for you.
		Oh, my God.
		To chunk with Art Bell.
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art bell ▲ ● ▼		The moon was towed here.
		God, that's a great statement.
		Great.
		We're going to explore it in a moment with John Lear, son of Bill Lear, who, of course, brought us all the Lear jet.
		Or at least some of us.
unidentified		i'm art now in the middle of the night close close to a m under way once again you're welcome The moon was towed here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John, okay, you're back on.
		That's a heck of a thing to say.
		The moon was towed here.
		And it implies, I guess what I'd like to know is how have you come to believe this to be so?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let me back up just a second and talk about the experiment.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		When Lazar worked at the test site, he read documents that mankind was an experiment and that religions were created by the people who were making the experiment to give us a set of rules and regulations to live by, the Ten Commandments, the Koran, so we wouldn't hurt ourselves during this experiment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so these came from other That was what started me on figuring out the experiment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Then I read that both Democritus and Anaxcorus taught that there was a time when the earth was without moon.
		Aristotle also taught that.
		He taught that Arcadian Greece, before being inhabited by the Hellenes, had a population of aborigines that occupied the land before there was a moon in the sky above the earth.
		And for this reason, they were called the Prosellenes.
		And then there was a time when there was two moons, and of course, now there's only one.
		So that started me if there was in recorded history of man, there was a time when there was no moon there.
		So then I read the book Ringmakers of Saturn, and Norman Berger started talking about the machines big enough to put the moon into orbit around the Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But anyway, presumably then, our government is well aware through whatever means they had to get this information, extraterrestrial bodies, contact, all the rest of it, somehow our government is fully aware of what humans are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're an experiment.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		They have to know all that, yeah.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		And when you say government, it's not congressmen and senators and government that you can see, it's it's the other guys.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The other guys.
		The secret government.
		The secret government.
		And you believe that the secret government manipulates this information.
		It's not shared with our politicians.
		It's shared perhaps with some presidents to some degree or not.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		No, not with presidents.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not with presidents.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		As we discussed before on the levels of security clearances, as far as I know, there's 38 levels above top secret.
		Now, the first 28 are top-secret crypto.
		Then the last 10 are names, like Umbra, Ultra, the top one being Majestic.
		Now, the President of the United States has, like, top secret Crypto 17.
		He doesn't get to know very much for two reasons.
		Number one is the intelligence community has always hated elected or appointed officials, and they don't vet them.
		And number two, there's no reason for him to know it.
		He's in office for four or eight years.
		He doesn't need to know that kind of stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John, is the president aware that he does not hold the top security clearance?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		No, everybody that has a clearance thinks the one he has is the top one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would absolutely make sense to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so to have knowledge of this, that mankind is an experiment, you would have to be at that top 10 level.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Majestic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Majestic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the whole majestic thing, the majestic papers that went around the web, around the world, MJ-12, real?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And like I say, for the people who say, what's your source for that, my source now passed away, was General James H. Doolittle.
		He was not an MJ-12 himself, but he was heavily right there in the middle of it all.
		He wrote a biography called I Could Never Be So Lucky.
		And I have never read a more honestly, brutally honest book.
		And I searched it for the slightest hint of what he was really involved in the later part of his life, but it wasn't there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, can you tell us almost verbatim what the general told you?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		He didn't tell me.
		Now, here's how it happened.
		Now, when Moore came out, Moore and Shandera came out with those Eisenhower briefing papers, I wanted to know whether it was real or not.
		And I knew I had to get to Jimmy Doolittle, but he was retired living in Carmel, California, and I knew I couldn't do it.
		But he and his wife, Jo, were very, very close to my grandmother and my grandfather and my mom and dad.
		Now, my grandmother and grandfather had long since passed away.
		We're talking about 1989, 1990.
		But mom was still very much alive.
		And I approached her and I said, look, I need some information.
		I want to know if this is real.
		And she said, okay, well, how can I help you?
		I said, I need you to call Jimmy and just play it like this.
		Say, hi, Jimmy.
		This is Boyam.
		You know, what's going on?
		You know, I haven't talked to you in a while.
		And then say, you know, Jimmy, John has gotten involved in something, and I'm not too excited about it, but I need to know one thing.
		Is the Majestic 12 real?
		Now, it took me about three or four months to get mom to do that, but she finally worked up her courage, and one morning called, and what he said was, yes, Moya, but I can't say anything more about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your mom's all right, John.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		She was a trooper.
		Yeah, that's what did it for me, because everything hinged on those papers.
		Are they real or not?
		And as far as I'm concerned, they were real.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So he confirmed it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The general confirmed it to your mom.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		What do you know if we are an experiment?
		I guess I would like to know the nature of this experiment.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Wouldn't we all?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, as much as you do know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		i mean we're working with there must be a little more than we are an experiment nothing to motive nothing to We are referred to as containers.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		The aliens referred us to as containers.
		That's all.
		Just containers.
		And they didn't want the containers to hurt themselves while this experiment was going on.
		Now, I've given it a lot of thought, and I cannot imagine what the experiment is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or whether it's succeeding or failing or still in judgment.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why was it decided, I wonder, that we need a moon?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anything on that?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And what happened is Richard Hoagland led me to this because when I saw his tape about the Earth-Mars-Moon connection and talked about the Lunar Orbiter 384M photo showing the tower on the moon directly in the center of the moon, in the sinus medii, stretching six miles high on a tripod and a cube on top, a mile on each side, I wondered to myself, what could that be for?
		What could be an antenna that's, well, you know, first of all, I thought it's got to be an antenna, and it's pointed directly at Earth.
		Are they trying to record our TV programs?
		And I thought, no, that's unlikely.
		These people are millions of years ahead of us.
		Probably what they're doing is sending, transmitting, and receiving souls.
		When a person dies, they retract the soul into this machine.
		When a person is born, they send the soul or transmit the soul.
		And this has been going on for, you know, however long that thing's been there.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying That's how souls get here.
		That's how souls are retrieved.
		They're actually received and transmitted from a virtual antenna on the moon.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's some concept, John.
		Wow.
		That's going to take a while to sink in.
		That's really something, John.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Now, that's why mariners are called lost souls, because if you die underwater, for some reason they can't retract the soul from underwater, and it's lost.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Frequency's not low enough, John.
		We can talk to subs if you get the frequency low enough.
		Oh, that's a trip.
		All right.
		So then that's the transmitter and the receiver, but there must be a processing center.
		In other words, something's driving that, or it's a tool of a larger machine, right?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Well, it could be.
		I think it's all part of that cube on top of the tripod, that sits on top of the tripod that receives and transmits the souls.
		Whether they're processed, you know, I don't know.
		I know this, is that we cannot take advantage of lessons we've learned in a previous lifetime because that information is short-circuited.
		Now, some people can access that, but it's extremely rare.
		For some reason, we're not allowed to profit by the mistakes that our soul made in a previous lifetime.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it seems so unfair, but we don't understand the structure of it all.
		Yes, I've always thought of that as so unfair.
		And if what you're saying is true, then that will explain some other things we're going to talk about.
		But so you know nothing beyond...
		I don't even know where to go here.
		Richard Hoagland, of course, pointed out a number of very large, very large structures on the moon.
		By the way, Richard's taken a lot of really big heat lately.
		I guess you're aware of that, huh?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you know, no single person has done more to expose the NASA cover-up than Richard Hoagland.
		And you know, they have various government guys out there that are really gunning for him.
		We have one on the Fantastic Forum.
		We call him Yankee Yo-Yo because all he does is badmouth Richard Hoagland.
		And Richard Hoagland is the good guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Richard is either somebody you love or hate.
		now of the audience.
		When he's on, they either love him or they hate him.
		There's no in-between with Richard.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		He has inspired me.
		I mean, when I saw that video of the 84M, you know, and people say he's arrogant.
		Well, maybe he is, but he certainly has a lot of information.
		And I certainly have some disagreements with him, but I don't go around bad-mouthing him on the internet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, his passion is evident to all.
		I mean, detractors and fans alike, his passion is absolutely evident.
		And, you know, I have disagreements with him, too.
		I've not seen a lot of the things that he has seen or tried to point out to me, to which he tells me I have two-dimensional vision, which is probably true.
		So he's an incredible man.
		And this means that these artifacts and the things he talked about and the things you're talking about now, they really are on the moon.
		But that bubble is going to get burst pretty soon.
		If we're keeping it secret, it's not going to be secret very much longer because other countries are getting ready to go to the moon, John.
		Then what?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		I doubt it'll happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		There will be something to...
		These guys, the Apollo astronauts I'm talking specifically about, these guys went to the moon, they saw all that stuff, and then they were told by NASA under threat of receipt of pension and everything else, that they better not talk about it.
		And they, for the most part, all kept their mouths shut for, you know, how long has it been, 35 years?
		And if you can just imagine yourself seeing something so astounding as all these structures on the moon and then being told you can't talk about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, you know yourself, John, that doing four hours on a radio program like this, you said so before the show, you're a little nervous.
		Everybody's nervous.
		But, you know, after a while, that goes away.
		And I interviewed Dr. Mitchell, actually, many times, Edgar Mitchell.
		And the damnedest thing, doggonest thing, John, you know, a couple of hours, we were talking, I think Hoagland was there, as a matter of fact, and Hoagland started talking about all this stuff that was on the moon.
		And Edgar Mitchell, and then Hoagland said something like, I want you to tell me, I mean, being on the moon is an emotional, lifetime, incredible experience.
		Describe your emotions and your thoughts when you were walking on the moon.
		And there was a long pause.
		And Dr. Mitchell came back and he said, you know, it's really strange.
		And now I'm paraphrasing, but I'm very close.
		It's really strange.
		I should remember everything in such stark detail.
		But my memory of what I felt and what I was seeing, it's all kind of foggy.
		And I don't remember how I felt.
		And I thought, whoa, was that a weird response?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's what he said in his book.
		And then there was another astronaut when he was asked the same question.
		He said, you know what?
		All I can think is a pair of black shiny shoes.
unidentified		You want to know what I'm saying?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the answer to that.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		That's what the psychological programming comes from.
		And I had the privilege once of talking with a lady who did, helped with the psychological proposal.
		She worked for NASA, and she told me how they did it and the problems they had with the astronauts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, and Neil Armstrong, every time he gets in front of the public, he makes some.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no, when you say when he gets in front of the public, that's only been, what, three times?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not very often.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But when he does, he says something that makes everybody go, whoa, holy smokes, what does he mean by that?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		I think Neil dealt with it by saying, if I can't tell him the truth, I'm not going to tell him anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then there were the other astronauts who had endless trouble, marital troubles, all kinds of different, I mean, obvious psychological big-time stress of some kind.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying they saw all this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They know.
unidentified		They know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All this.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		They know all this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that it was explained to them when they got back as part of the debriefing, John, what they saw?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		No, I think that what they did was, you saw that?
		Really?
		Now, I mean, did the other guys see it?
		I think they treated them as, you know, little kids or maybe a little bit crazy.
		It was part of the plan to keep things secret.
		In other words, when they went, they didn't tell them.
		Now, you're going to see these great big structures, so you've got to keep your mouth shut.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm just a talk show host, John Bo, and I hear an answer like that from Mitchell.
		I go, that's not possible.
		You were on the moon.
		You were there.
		You put your feet on the moon.
		You walked on the moon.
		You have to know what it felt like and what it was and your surroundings.
		It can't all be sort of a weird memory for you.
		It just can't be.
		It can't be.
		It's the biggest event of your life and of a lot of lives on the planet.
		You have to remember.
		But no.
		I mean, that's too bizarre.
		So, anyway, maybe you're on to it.
		I mean, maybe they did see all of this and maybe they were programmed out of it.
		And you believe that this antenna is a transmitter of souls, both sending the new ones and receiving the ones that expire.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And you remember a year and a half ago at the Reno Air Races, an astronaut decked a Japanese reporter that came up and said, hey, you guys didn't go to the moon.
		That's all BS.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, put them on the ground.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Okay, the reason he did, in my opinion, is the fact that it's not that they didn't go to the moon.
		It's that they did go to the moon and what they found there.
		And it was so troubling now to be accused that they didn't go when they did go, and now they've been keeping a secret for all these years of what there was up there.
		You can imagine how troubling that would be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think they were told, John, in the end, to force them to keep that secret?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think they were told part of what was in what I call the Lear test?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		No, I just think they were said you can't do it.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		That's all there is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it wouldn't be enough.
		I mean, you would have to say enough to an astronaut.
		This is such a magnificent thing to withhold from mankind that not only are ETs here, but ETs are on the moon.
		The evidence is real close by, relatively.
		And this for mankind is like the biggest thing there could possibly be.
		So you've got to give someone a pretty good reason not to talk about that.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yes?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A pretty good reason other than don't you can't talk about that.
		You've got to do better than that.
		It's like mankind isn't ready for this information, can't know this information.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Maybe you're right.
		Maybe you're right.
		Maybe that's what they did.
		I talked with this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're at a breakpoint.
		Can you hold on?
		All right, good.
		We've got plenty of time.
		John Lear.
unidentified		I've been where the eagle flies, rode his wings cross all the skies, kissed the sun, touched the moon, but he left me much more.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but if you'd really done all that, if you'd really seen all that, touch the moon, wouldn't you remember?
unidentified		Ladybird, come on down.
		I'm here waiting on the ground.
		Ladybird, I treat you good.
		Ladybird, I wish you would, you ladybird.
		Pretty ladybird.
		Don't bother asking for explanation, she'll tell you that she gained the inner of the cat.
		She doesn't give you time for questions, as she locks up your arm and clothes.
		And you follow through your sense of which direction, completely disappear.
		By the boot-tog walls, near the market stalls, there's a hint that she leads you to.
		These days, she says, I feel my life just like a river running through.
		The air of the cat.
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
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art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mankind an Experiment.
unidentified		Hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's interesting.
unidentified		Can you...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And there is one, you know, that think about it.
unidentified		we are an experiment And I know I've got a soul, because that sax sinks right into it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Be right back.
		Once again, here's John Lear.
		All right, John.
		A lot of questions from the audience, and here's kind of an interesting one from Morgan in Clearwater, Florida.
		Ask John if a lot of ghosts from Earth are here by their choice as souls because they know not to go to the light after they die, or should I go to the light?
		Please ask him.
		Same old question, John.
		If there is a receiver and transmitter, then perhaps the light that people see and that trip they begin to take is actually to the moon.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's going to the moon.
		I'm trying to remember the remote view.
		Oh, McGonagall.
		Have you interviewed him at all?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Joe McGonagall?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Joe.
		Okay, in his book, he said he was tasked once to follow somebody who had died in a car accident south of San Francisco.
		And he found him and followed him.
		And as he was headed, you know, he was headed towards the moon.
		And as the person got closer and closer to the moon, there was something wrapping around him.
		And something was saying to McGonagall, you cannot come here.
		This is not your place.
		You can go anywhere else, but you can't come here.
		And it got to the point where McGonagall broke off because he felt his very life threatened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's fascinating.
		You know, I don't remember, Joe.
		Of course, maybe I just didn't ask the right question.
		But other than Ed Dames and maybe one or two others that I can think of, most of the remote viewers won't do that kind of thing, John.
		Or either that or they don't publicly want to talk about it.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		You know, I definitely read it and I thought it was McMonago, but, you know, it could have been another of the remote viewers.
		I remember there was one came to Las Vegas.
		But that incident did happen.
		And that's another thing that kicked me off that the souls were going to the moon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you don't think we're going back to the moon, and you don't think anybody else is going to the moon?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		No, it's a secret.
		It has to be kept.
		Part of it, you know, if you were the government and you knew the secret and you knew the experiment, and part of the experiment is not knowing that it's an experiment.
		That's why this X conference that's coming up is so ridiculous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		X conference?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is it?
		The X conference in Washington, D.C. Hey, I guess I'm behind the times.
		What is this?
		Another disclosure thing.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Big disclosure thing coming.
		All the UFO guys are going to talk.
		There's 33, you know, and they're going to influence Congress and Senate.
		It's not going to happen for the simple fact that they're talking to people who have nothing to do with the cover-up.
		You take a senator or a congressman, and even if they got interested, let's say that they were high-level and had a lot of seniority, do you think they're going to risk any of their seniority to bring something like UFO to the forefront?
		Do you think that they're going to hold hearings?
		Of course not.
		And even if they did, somebody would approach them and say, let's say you were a senator, Art, and he comes and says, Art, look, you know, this UFO thing, I think that, you know, it needs to be investigated.
		But the guy I work for and the guy who gives you your clearance as a senator so that you can learn all this secret stuff that you know about, he thinks it's all wacko.
		So, you know, we have to appease him.
		Now, you know, personally, I think, you know, there should be an investigation, but at this point in your career, I don't think you can afford to irritate my boss because you've got your clearance coming.
		That's the kind of thing that would happen if anybody got any close to doing an investigation on the UFO cover-up.
		And I know Steve Bassett has very good intentions, but there is no way that anything is going to happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, John, I can tell you this.
		I know some pretty powerful people who I'm not going to name, but you would know them.
		And they have made some really big behind-the-scenes moves to get an investigation going on UFOs.
		I mean, right into the right places.
		I wish I could name the names, and someday maybe I will, but not tonight.
		And every time they get very close, some little hitch develops, and it doesn't get done.
		Simple as that.
		I mean, right up to the Congressional Senate level.
		I'm talking about senators.
		Yeah.
		It gets stopped every time.
		That's true.
		I know that for a fact.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		It's not going to happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they can have all the conferences they want.
		It's not going to change anything.
		No.
		But again, like Richard, who I don't always agree with, Dr. Greer, for example, his intentions are awfully good.
		Awfully good.
		But I honestly have concerns that he'll ever get anywhere with it, I guess, just the same way you do.
		Do you think that if, and by the way, Dr. Greer was one of the ones I played the Lear test for.
		Oh.
		And, you know, he actually, very quickly after it, if I recall correctly, said, well, when I said, if all of that was true, Doctor, would you still be for disclosure?
		Of course not.
		But all of that's not true.
		You know, roughly what he said.
		Back to the light for a moment.
		We never answered poor Morgan's question here.
		This is a tough one, Morgan.
		Now we're asking John Lear's opinion about whether to go to the light or not.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		That's a question?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Well, now remember, it was Whitley Streeber that told me that story, and I related it to you.
		I didn't come up with that myself.
		Are you asking, am I going to go to the white light?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, would you go to the light or would you go to the dark?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a question for you.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
		If I had to go tonight, I'd probably go to the white light because I miss some of my friends.
		And I want to go back to where everybody else goes, and you see all your friends for a few minutes, and then you get sent back to Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you think that all your friends are in the right place?
		Well, or is it the only might as well slam it right here?
		Is the whole concept of heaven and hell, as we understand them biblically, nothing more than a myth?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		You know, I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if there's a machine on the moon doing the soul extraction and placement, then it would, you know, that's a careful statement.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Certainly we could.
		The story that Whitley Streeber told about being in the box was hell.
		That certainly was hell.
		Remember that story?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		That was the most frightening thing that had ever happened to him and they could ever imagine.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		And I don't remember exactly how the story went, but I think his soul was in a little teeny box.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Strapped there for a while.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that would seem hell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you wouldn't, I mean, even with all the knowledge that you have, I assume that you are from time to time invited to these kinds of conferences, aren't you?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but I never go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You never go?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You sort of, there was a point where you threw your hands up with all of this, and you more or less said, well, I've learned all there is to learn about the whole ET question and UFOs, and I'm done.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		No, Not that I hadn't learned all there was to know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or all you wanted to know.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Or wanted to know.
		It was just I could see it was, you know, there was no point in going to a conference because these people are just, you know, preaching to each other.
		And when I first got into this, I could pull everybody up to where I was because I didn't know that much.
		And I had all the documents and said, you know, this is what so-and-so wrote.
		This is what, here's a copy of the documents.
		Here's the receipt for it.
		And I can bring them up to that level.
		But I kept going, you know, getting more information.
		And what is it they used to say that leer leaps in logic was what they used to accuse me of.
		And, you know, it just, they were leaps in logic, but they turned out to be true.
		So, you know, I was getting further ahead of everybody with the information.
		And it was too hard to sit down with somebody and bring them up to speed.
		So I just gave it up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so let's come back to this machine on the moon again.
		It's pretty interesting.
		And you believe now that it accounts for some things on Earth.
		In other words, you already said the machine wasn't perfect.
		And for example, Mariners Lost at Sea, that machine can't retrieve that soul because it's beneath a very great deal of water, which it apparently cannot penetrate.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Even a little bit of water.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even really.
		Even a little bit of water.
		Well, yeah.
		This machine may be imperfect in other ways, or it may be by design.
		How can we know?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Either imperfect or by design.
		But what's going on with this whole question of homosexuality, what we call the gay question, is apparently, either by design or the machine is breaking down, what's going on is predominantly male souls are being transmitted to females and predominantly female souls are being transmitted to males.
		Now, whether that's by design or it's breaking down or whatever, but that's what's causing this increase, you know, a remarkable increase in homosexuality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Some suggest there really is not an increase that is just more people are not afraid to be out of the closet.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		That could very well be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we can't know whether it's by design or whether it's just a simple mistake.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Either way, you're actually seeing cross-matched souls.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		That's what's happening, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how do you did you do you know that the same way you know about the fact that we're an experiment?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Well, you just figure it out.
		Take the facts and figure it out.
		I mean, you know, nobody has to tell you that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I guess not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if you accept one, then why not the other?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		It's your Occam's razor.
		Which is the more plausible?
		Did the moon emerge from the Pacific Ocean and go out there and establish itself in perfect rotational lock?
		I don't think so.
		Did it cruise along and get caught by Earth's gravitational pull and establish itself in perfect rotational lock?
		I don't think so.
		There has to be another other reason.
		And that's because somebody towed it there and put it into rotational lock.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you believe it was put there for the specific purpose of engendering this experiment that others might just call creation.
		Where do you think, John, that the Bible fits into all of this?
		I mean, the Bible has a very specific way it describes our creation that most Christians buy into.
		How did that come to pass, do you think, in the scheme of all this?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think it's all part of the rules and regulations, so we won't hurt ourselves.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		And somebody on the Fantastic Forum mentioned that, well, it certainly isn't doing a very good job, and I have to agree with that, but apparently that was the intent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we've been warring quite a bit, killing each other with regularity.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but we've been killing ourselves for God, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we always, when we do it, when we have wars, of course, we always, all of us, hold the book and God's name out in front of the battle.
		There's no question about it.
		Yeah.
		Always in God's name.
		War is always on both sides.
		So that's true.
		Part of the plan, do you think, John?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		You know?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I don't know either.
		Back to Richard Hoagland for a moment.
		He is, of course, taking big-time hits right now.
		How much of what Richard says do you buy?
		In what areas do you disagree with him?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		The area I disagree is a couple of weeks ago he was on some program, and I heard something about he was discussing the problems we were having with Spirit Rover, and he mentioned that there may be a group that could hijack NASA's antenna and send spurious signals to Mars.
		That is absolute BS.
		NASA is doing those spurious signals.
		They're the ones that are creating the problems.
		Those signals first go to Canberra, then I think they go to PineGap, and then I thought I saw a diagram where they went into Northern California and then back down to JPL.
		But whatever the scenario, those signals and photographs and everything are tampered with and made just like they want before they get to JPL.
		Now, the problem with Richard is he knows those guys and what a great team they are.
		And they are.
		They have no idea that those signals are being tampered before they get to JPL.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, John, if we were seeing untampered with photographs, what would we be seeing?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
		Spirit Rover is allegedly now, not much more.
		I'd like to see it go down to Tiffonia.
		I'd like to see it go to Sidonia.
		I'd like to see it go to that monument that McMonagall visited when they took him to the three or to the seven coordinate points on Mars.
		He thought it was on Earth, and he saw all this weird stuff.
		And then in the debriefing, they told him, no, that was Mars.
		And he said, my gosh, you know, and he saw these things.
		And what was so interesting about the book is somehow, somebody had sent me those exact eight photographs, like about maybe eight years before.
		And I pulled them out.
		I said, I wonder if these are the same ones.
		And they were the same ones of the places he went.
		And there's one of the places he went on Mars that has a huge type Washington monument, but only much, much bigger.
		And, you know, I'd like to see Spirit Rover go there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what NASA says, John?
		They say, you know, if any of the stuff that Hoagland talks about or others wish were there, was really there, that we would go, but Lurk, we'd release the photographs and we'd get funding we never dreamed about for a manned mission to Mars.
		The whole world would want to investigate the possibility of a civilization or life, intelligent life, ever having been on Mars.
		It would be the best thing that ever happened to NASA.
		Keep it quiet.
		Not in a million years.
		That's what they say.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Good story.
		But what they really do is they seek out government disinformation artists by, first of all, they have to have a PhD and be extremely knowledgeable on many subjects.
		Then they have to be extremely well-spoken.
		Then they have to exude confidence and congeniality.
		And when they mix with the public, they do exactly what you just said.
		Oh, and Fagan used to do the same thing.
		Oh, gosh, wouldn't it be just, it would be great if we could just meet an alien.
		But, you know, the facts are it's too far away and they aren't here.
		But, you know, it would be great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that is a good story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's a good story.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		It's a great story.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you know, but those are not what's going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think they know that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think the NASA guys that are saying these things know that?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, Richard says that the lower-level technicians below the very top, they don't know any of this.
		You know, they're at consoles doing work.
		They don't see anything tampered with or any of the rest of that.
		They're good, faithful employees.
		And even the PR guys, you know?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, usually they don't know.
		And I told you the story when Bob and I went down to Los Angeles to meet with the head of Viking Imaging.
		And I forget his name.
		I keep threatening to look it up, but I don't know.
		Whatever it was, he was head of Viking Image.
		And what Bob had seen up at the test site was close-ups of the pyramids in Sidonia.
		And he saw doors and windows, and obviously somebody lived there.
		So we went down to pick up Bob's race car.
		And while we were there, we drove over into a JPL, and we walked up to see this guy.
		I wish I could remember his name.
		And we sat down and talked with him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I tell you what, we're at a break point, John.
		You may think of his name during the break.
		We'll get right back to that.
		We'll be right back.
		Middle of the night.
unidentified		to a m actually my desert in the middle of the night this schools post a m the frown silence
		all circuits within the frown we go my whole life Thank
		you.
		Thank you.
		Thank you.
		And in the springtime of the year, when the trees are crowned with years, and the ash book and the bird and mill, the dress in ribbons here.
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
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art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, when considering the manner of our creation and maintenance, this isn't any crazier than listening to a lot of other renditions of the way it happened.
		Not really.
		Any of them you listen to Are fantastic, beyond belief, hard to grasp, hard to consider, and rejected by many.
		I understand that.
		That we are, that mankind is an experiment.
		That there's something on the moon that literally controls, transmits, transports our souls, and that we, our flesh, it's just the container, that's all.
unidentified		SHUT UP!
unidentified		SHUT UP!
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, here's John Lear.
		He's read lots of secret documents.
		I don't know.
		He's certainly got information confirming what these documents say from very high places.
		For example, General Doolittle.
		But we're off in some wild country here.
		We were talking about NASA and what they say.
		And certainly it is a good story.
		I mean, it does seem to me, John, as though, gosh, if they had something like that, they'd have all the money they needed to go investigate and all the rest of it.
		But you're suggesting that at a higher level, they already know and have known for a long time what's there and what it means to humanity.
		And we can't be told about it.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		And before I answer that, Art, I just wanted to tell you that Bad Boy at the Fantastic Forum says hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You, Ben.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Now, as to what NASA knows, they know everything.
		I mean, they know Venus is a normal planet-like Earth.
		It doesn't have all that glowing, hot, molten lava and 90 bars of pressure.
		And it's ridiculous.
		They know everything that's on the moon.
		They know Mars, for all I know.
		And I certainly at one time did think that we already had some kind of a base on Mars.
		And the reason I thought that is I was going to get to talk to somebody who went there.
		Now, when you go either to the moon or these supposed bases we have on the moon or Mars, it's a one-way trip.
		You cannot come back because they don't want any chance of anybody finding out about it.
		And for some reason, this guy had come back, and I was going to get a chance to talk to him.
		He lived in, I think, south of San Francisco somewhere.
		And we got right down to where I was going to get to meet this guy, and then all of a sudden, you know, called the number, and although it was the same number, you know, we had been using, now it changed.
		There was a family using that number, and they said they had had it for 15 years, and so on and so on.
		But they know all that stuff.
		They know, for instance, the spaceships in the rings of Saturn.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Okay, now the other day, Yankee O-Yo posted a story with this message in his continuing assault on Richard Hoagland.
		He says to the Fantastic Forum, hey, you guys, did you hear that Richard Hoagland thinks there's a UFO ticking and purring in the rings of Saturn?
		So I wrote back that if Richard Hoagland said this, then it was confirmed by Norm Bergen in his book, The Ringmakers of Saturn, published in 1986.
		Now, before I tell you what Bergman said, let me read you a small portion of his bona fides.
		This is Norm Bergman.
		BSME Cornell, LLB LaSalle, Postgraduate Studies, Stanford, U.S. Navy, 44-46.
		Thermodynamists with Douglas Aircraft.
		Aero Research Scientists with NACA Ames Laboratories.
		Supervisor Flight Test Manager, Flight Test Analysis Manager, Test Plans Manager, Reentrance, Test Operations Staff Scientist, Satellite Systems, Lockheed Missiles, and Space Company.
		It goes on and on and on.
		So here's what Norm Bergman had to say in the preface of his book about the UFO that is ticking and purring in the rings of Saturn.
		And I quote, presented herein are pictures of an immensely large, enormously powerful, extraterrestrial space vehicle located in the vicinity of Saturn and its moons.
		These photographic revelations are reinforced by and are consistent with scientific data extending over centuries as far back as Galileo.
		The pictures have been obtained by the author using simple, repeatable enhancement techniques applied to publicly available NASA photos from Voyager 1 and 2 flybys of Saturn.
		Having been obtained by pre-scheduled flight programming, Voyager photographs are scientifically unique in that they are strictly impersonal.
		End of quote.
		Now the size of the largest of the vehicles is shown in plate 27, page 50, as 31,496 miles in length and 2,422 miles in diameter.
		Nowhere in the book is it said that the object is ticking or purring.
		Now we're talking about a fairly large spacecraft here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Now NASA knows that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		NASA knows that.
		And then, you know, John, what is our present space program?
		Even though since we went to the moon, we've laid back and we haven't left with man low Earth orbit.
		Haven't done it.
		But we have sent out probes.
		We've sent what we just sent to Mars and deeper space probes.
		Is all of this a ruse?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		All PR.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's all PR.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		You know, that's an opinion.
		I can't prove that.
		In my opinion, it's all PR.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because they already know what's there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And moreover, if we should happen to get a photograph or evidence of something that they're trying to hide, then that has to be covered up.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Look at how ridiculous is it, you know, that Spirit Rover didn't go to Sidonia or Tiffonia or the monument.
		Now, I know that the standard answer is, well, we've got four more important things to look at than, you know, alleged cities.
		But here at Tiffonia, in the Tithonia Chasma, on the west side of the Valley Marineris, you can go to Project Red Star on the web, projectredstar.com, and see the city yourself.
		And not only that, you can go to Mallon Space Science Systems on the website.
		He's the guy that is in charge of all the pictures coming from Mars and go to this one Mars picture, and I'll give the address of it.
		You can pull it down yourself, and you can put it in Photoshop 7, and you can magnify it and see the city yourself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have seen a couple of photographs that Richard showed me that made me gasp, that showed, without question, in my mind, underground cities.
		Now, even Richard, to some degree, questions the authenticity of the photograph, or at least, you know, he's not certain.
		But when I saw that, I did gasp, and I did say, oh, my God, that was a city.
		That was a city.
		There's no question about it.
		If that photograph is authentic, it's a city.
		I saw that with my own eyes.
		So then all this is a ruse, and it's just a sort of a minimal effort, and we're not going to put man back up, or will the day come when we will be admitted to some further next step?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		No, they'll be cleaning out the Petri dish shortly.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		I don't think we're going to be going anywhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think so?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Except to the moon.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		This is just opinion, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it must be opinion based on something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you think the experiment may not be going so well.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, it's not that it's not going so well.
		People are, you know, becoming aware of who's running the experiment.
		And I don't think the experiment is valid if we begin to question whether or not there is a, quote, God.
		And so it might be time to clean out the Petri dish and start over again.
		And according to records, apparently every, what, 25,000 years, the earth is cleansed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		And they start over again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you think we're pretty close?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, who knows?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Something you were going to say about the Naval Observatory in Washington?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I was going to tell you that story that I was back in 1990 visiting my daughter and her husband, and it was Armed Forces Day, and we were headed out to the Air Force Base.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Oh, what is it, Andrews?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		And we were driving down the street, and we went right by the Naval Observatory, you know, where the vice president lives.
		Sure.
		And it said open house.
		So I swerved in there.
		I said, hey, this is going to be interesting.
		Let's go in here.
		So we went in there and parked.
		And all the scientists were dressed up as famous figures in astronomy history.
		There was Galileo and Giordano Brumo.
		And they all had this little shtick, this little thing where they'd recite a little bit of history.
		So I'm talking to this one scientist, and I said, well, listen, how fast, you know, is there a speed to gravity?
		And he says, well, we think it's, you know, about the speed of light.
		And I said, well, isn't it true that gravity is instantaneous between all planets?
		And actually, there's two gravities, gravity A and gravity B?
		And this guy had a Pepsi can in his hand, and he squeezed it so hard he drew blood.
		And I had my daughter and her husband watching this.
		So we walked around with some of the exhibits, and then the head of the Naval Observatory was out there getting pictures taken with everybody, and, you know, their family would take a picture.
		And I walked up and said, can I get a picture?
		He said, absolutely not.
		And he walked away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Then shortly after that...
		Shortly after that, there's this photographer doing leaps and bounds to take pictures of me as we're walking towards the parking lot.
		I mean, it was comical.
		My daughter says, damn, what's that guy doing?
		And he was hiding behind trees with the camera out.
		And it was just a very odd experience.
		I don't think I'd ever told you that one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you haven't.
		It is odd.
		And you think he crushed that Pepsi can because he knew I was speaking the truth.
		Gravity A and gravity B, you want to see?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Gravity A works on an atomic scale.
		Gravity B is the gravity that holds you on the Earth and the Earth in orbit around the sun and that type of deal.
		Gravity A works on an atomic scale.
		And it's what's currently known as the strong force.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, most theoretical physicists really have a hard time trying to explain gravity at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't seem like science understands gravity all that well at all.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they have a hard time with it, and they also have a hard time that it's instantaneous.
		But the story I told you many years ago, that one's the time that Bob came back from S4, and he told me about a gigantic weapon that we had, a weapon that was so powerful that it could destroy a continent half the size of South America.
		And he said that a message was sent to the owners of the grays, and we'd established they lived more than 1,000 light years away, the people who made the grays.
		The message was sent to them, either you help us get rid of the grays or nobody's going to have Earth, meaning we'd blow ourselves up.
		And I said, well, now, what good is that going to do?
		Because, you know, if they're over 1,000 light years away, it's going to be 2,000 light years before we get an answer.
		And he said, no, no, they use a gravity phone.
		Gravity is instantaneous.
		And if you could hook up a phone to it, you can call hundreds of light years away instantaneously.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a fascinating concept.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gravity is instantaneous.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We know the speed of light, but gravity is instantaneous.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		We'd have no way to measure that.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		That's why we don't know how fast gravity goes, propagates.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There wouldn't be a way to measure that, would there?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The more I think we have.
		Right.
		So the speed of gravity, you can't even say it has a speed.
		It's instantaneous.
		That's fascinating.
		I don't think I've ever heard anybody say that before, nor even speak of the speed of gravity since we don't understand it.
		But what a concept, that it's instantaneous, as in it always is, always was, and always will be.
		So it's always there.
		But there is a speed to it, you're suggesting, some sort of speed.
		No, it's instantaneous.
		Boy, the human mind has a hard time wrapping around that one.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, like 400 years ago when we thought the Earth was flat and they were trying to convince the population that was round, and they'd say it can't be round.
		We'd fall off.
		Don't be ridiculous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then gravity ultimately perhaps would be not just instantaneous communication, but instantaneous travel as well?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's the gravity wave that they use to travel.
		And the leaps that they make, according to what Bob said, I think it's every 12 milliseconds that gravity amplifier recycles every 12 milliseconds.
		So however far they can travel in one leap, they can do that in an hour, you know, 12 milliseconds divided by 60.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have any idea of how a gravity amplifier would even work?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The basic concept behind it?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Well, the basic concept behind it is they use the gravity A wave, which they extract from the 115.
		They pump protons into that.
		It goes up to 116.
		There's an instantaneous decay.
		When it decays, it throws off antimatter in the gravity A wave.
		Somehow, they harness the gravity A wave to the three gravity amplifiers in the bottom of the craft.
		And these things focus on a point in space.
		And like I said, I don't know how far that point is.
		And they pull spades toward them.
		Now, we think of space as nothing, you know, containing maybe one hydrogen atom per square meter.
		But in fact, space is a fabric.
		It can be pulled or warped.
		And if you exercise enough gravity, you can actually pull that space towards you, wrap it around your craft, and then turn it off.
		And you're that length away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All of this is possible through element 116, right?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Through 115, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm sorry, 115.
		You know, John, it was either after I had you on last, I think it was, or perhaps Bob's last appearance, but there was a scientific article that they had just for some incredible short instant actually synthesized element 115.
		And I went, and so did a lot of the audience out there because I got a lot of emails.
		Wow, there it is, Element 115.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and Bob made a comment, I think, to Linda Moulton Howe that he would like to know more about it.
		And I sent him as much information as I have about it.
		And he hasn't commented, but he said he would like to know the exact makeup because apparently the 115 that they synthesized was unstable.
		And the 115 that he and I held in our hands was certainly stable.
		It was, I think it was 238 grams in the arrowhead shape.
		And I don't know that I told you this.
		I visited Bob a few months ago in Albuquerque, and we're out working in his garage, and the half-scale gravity amplifier that Joe Van Anetti had built was sitting there in disarray.
		And Bob said, you want this?
		I said, are you kidding?
		I've wanted that thing for 15 years.
		He said, here.
		And I got the half-scale gravity amplifier.
		And it comes with a base and the little half-sphere.
		And inside is the little holder for the 115 and the little tube that pumps the 115 into the pumps the protons into the 115.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you've got this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got this now?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I got it in my office.
		I'm looking at it right now.
		I mean, in my den.
		And, you know, it's just a half-scale replica.
		Obviously, it doesn't work, but it's really neat to have, and it's really neat.
		He gave it to me, and I got it there.
		I'm looking at it right now across my desk.
		It's in a glass cabinet, and behind it is the original drawing that Bob made for me when he came back and showed me how the saucers worked, how the 115, how they pumped the protons into the 115, pumped it up to 116.
		It instantaneously decayed, drew off the antimatter, which was mixed with matter in a thermionic generator, creating heat, which they turned into used for voltage to power the craft, and the gravity A wave, which they used to travel.
		And the original drawing is framed behind that little replica amplifier.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, what a concept.
		All right, hold on, John.
		We're at the time they are.
		So gravity is instantaneous.
		I mean, just try during the break to grasp mentally the concept of instantaneous and what that means.
		Really, it means it was always, it was always, is now, and always will be in a way.
		That would have to be something of the nature of instantaneous, wouldn't it?
		And that you can use it to communicate and then perhaps go from point A to point B real quick.
		This is Coast to Coast AM in the Night Time.
unidentified		What do milky...
		...anything?
		He's got this dream about buying some land.
		He's gonna give up the booze and the one-night stand.
		And then he can settle down.
		It's a quiet little town.
		And forget about everything.
		But you know he'll always keep moving.
		You know he's never gonna stop moving, cause he's rolling, he's the roadstone.
		When you wake up, it's a new morning, the sun is shining, it's a new morning.
		You're going, you're going home.
		Thank you.
		To talk with Artfell.
		Call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
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		From coast to coast, and worldwide on the internet.
		This is Coast to Coast AM, with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is any topic at all more interesting than who we are, how we got to be here, what we're all about?
		I don't know what it is, and this embraces all of that.
		My guest is John Lear, son of Bill Lear, yep, Lear, Jet type thing.
		And he sure does have a lot to say about all of that, how we got here, who we are, how we're being manipulated.
		And a moment ago, I hope you took the opportunity during the break to think about the instantaneous nature of gravity.
		The End Well, anyway, if we get Element 115 and stabilize it, John, then presumably we'd be on our way toward the kind of travel that you were talking about a little while ago, wouldn't we?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's pretty much impossible.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		But even if we had it and we could stabilize it, then we'd have to make a container to contain the matter-antimatter reaction from which they draw the heat and turn it into positive, turn into voltage.
unidentified		Right.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		And making the container would be some more problems.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		We're talking, you know, something that's 100,000 years ahead of us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Something 100,000 years ahead of us.
		I know you guys by then.
		You may.
		They say crashed at Aztec, right?
		Right.
		One of them crashed.
		And how much do you know about that?
		I know Doug Nolan apparently just passed away, and he was the last living witness to the crash there.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		He's the only one that we know that had said anything.
		And now Bill Steinman wrote UFO Crash at Aztec, and that came out about maybe 15 years ago.
		And he did a thorough, extremely thorough investigation of the crash at Aztec, which occurred in 1948.
		And that was the one that Frank Scully talked about and got so ridiculed over.
		And I read Steinman's book, and very interesting.
		And I drove to Aztec myself and looked for Heart Canyon.
		And I didn't find it at that time.
		But then about seven or eight years ago, when I got into mining, there was an old gold miner that did assaying south of town, Doug Nolan.
		And I went to his house to get some assays of some of the ore up at the mine.
		And he was, let's see, at that time he had to be 72 or 73.
		And after visiting him for two or three times, he said, we were sitting at the kitchen table, he said, you know, John, I've never told anybody this.
		He said, because we were sworn to secrecy.
		But I know you do a little lecturing on UFOs.
		And I just wanted to tell you, I was there at what they call the crash at Aztec.
		And I said, really?
		And I said, tell me about it.
		He said, I worked for El Paso Natural Gas.
		He said, we were laying a trench in Largo Canyon, and he said there was five of us.
		And he said, this lion saucer came in, zoomed across over our heads, and crashed maybe a couple hundred feet away from us.
		And he said, we all walked over there.
		And he said, it was five hours before the military got there, so we had enough time to look at everything and see the whole thing.
		He said there was a hole in the porthole.
		He said it was about the size of a half a dollar.
		He said we looked in there, and there was kind of a little console, and two of the bodies were leaning over the console, charred, just laying there.
		I said, what size were they?
		And he said, oh, about three feet.
		And I said, what did they look like?
		He said, exactly like us.
		And I said, what color were they?
		And he said, well, they were burned.
		They were a chocolate brown burn color.
		And he said, we spent a lot of time.
		He said, looking in there.
		He said, we went and got an acetylene torch to see if we could make that hole bigger to get inside the thing.
		But he said the acetylene torch for 10 minutes on that thing didn't even make it warm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But going back, exactly like us, but no more than three feet tall.
		Otherwise, just an absolute reduction of all features.
		Right.
		That's all?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And that would match up with a story we heard that some witness saw somebody fitting that exact type description was seen at Pine Gap in a hangar there.
		So, anyway, apparently the military gets there after about five hours, herds them all into a corner of the field, you know, gives them the briefing.
		You know, you tell anybody, we won't kill you, we'll kill your wife, your kids, your dog, your parents, everybody.
		So, that makes an impression because usually people don't care.
		Okay, kill me, go ahead, kill me.
		But when they threaten, oh, no, we're not going to kill you, we're going to kill everybody else.
		So they watched him take this thing apart.
		He said, I said, well, how'd they do it?
		He said they borrowed some of our, he had a name for it.
		It might have been welding rod or something to make a long, maybe 12-foot long kind of a poker.
		And he said they put it into the hole in the window, and they knew exactly where to push.
		And when they did, he said, John, that thing opened up just like the craft in the day the earth stood still.
		The bottom came out, and a pie section raised.
		He said they went in, they took the bodies out, and he said then we watched him disassemble this thing, and he said it disassembled in pie sections, and apparently they knew exactly how to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they had, this was obviously not their first crash retrieval.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Obviously.
		And so Doug told me this story, and I had him read Steinman's book, and he made a few corrections.
		In Steinman's book, there was a story about helicopters coming in and flying overhead.
		He said, no, there were no helicopters.
		And he also had a comment.
		Steinman said that they used something else to poke the lever that made the door come open.
		And Doug says, no, no, no, that was whatever it was, welding rod or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John, your dad, what was his attitude about all of this?
		I've heard stories.
		What was your dad?
		Because obviously your dad would have influenced you.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Apparently, he was a lot more involved than I realized.
		And like I say, you know, I thought it was interesting, but I never got involved until Bud Hopkins' book in 84, 85.
		Growing up, you know, dad used to talk about it a lot.
		Yes, they're here.
		Yeah, yeah.
		They'd come and pick me up.
		And he had a friend, a TWA pilot named Bob Addix.
		I'm not sure.
		I think Bob passed away a couple years ago.
		But he was the TWA pilot that saw the giant wheel come by his airplane, spinning like a Ferris wheel, but, you know, faster, and zoomed by.
		And we had people around the house that turns out they were all involved.
		For instance, Jimmy Doodle was always there.
		I was going to look up before the show who's the head of the CIA.
		Who's the MJ-12 guy?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, won't come to me either.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Like Mike says, a fantastic forum, my mind is like Teflon.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Nothing sticks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Somebody will come up with it.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		But anyway, that guy, and I'll remember his name in a second, had a crush on my mom, and she told me that in later years.
		But all those guys, like Randy Lovelace, he was always around.
		So apparently my dad was very involved.
		Now there's a videotape floating around of my dad, I think we covered this last time, at the Bonson Laboratories and doing some kind of a UFO project.
		There's a picture of my dad standing at a blackboard with a picture of a saucer there explaining how it worked.
		My mom is standing behind him.
		This has to be like 1954, 1955.
		And then recently on the internet, I came across a site that has information on the T. Townsend-Brown Bonson connection.
		Now, they don't say anything about my dad, but there is a picture of my dad at the Bonson Laboratories doing the research.
		So, you know, for all I know, maybe T. Townsend-Brown was there and they were all doing something together.
		But the answer to your question, yes, he was heavily involved.
		Yes, he did influence me, but he never told me the slightest bit of inside information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you think he knew a whole lot more than...
unidentified		Yeah, he did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With regard to the MJ12 documents, they were, in fact, there were all kinds of references, actually, from the government indicating that there really was something to those documents.
		I got a call from somebody recently who made a couple of notations to me that showed that there really had been a full investigative, you know, that it really had gone through our government, the whole mess had.
		And this is a very sensible person who believes they're absolutely real as well.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think the Robert Cutler document was a good proof of that.
		And that was the only document that's ever surfaced that actually had special studies group, and I think it mentioned MG-12, whatever it was.
		That was a good one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you think that organization is alive, well, and still pulling the strings today?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		That organization or something very, very similar to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very much like it.
		And of course, you gave the Lear test, which describes why there won't be disclosure.
		But perhaps within the plan somewhere, John, if the Petri dish isn't emptied, maybe at some point there is a plan for disclosure.
		Do you think that's possible?
unidentified		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I mean, not by us.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's possible.
		How would I know?
		But my feeling is, no.
		For the experiment to be valid, we can't know this is going on.
unidentified		Hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then we're trapped on Earth.
		We can't.
		They're not going to let us go anywhere.
		that's right that must be an incredible incredibly um...
john lear ▲ ● ▼		That's why they're such heroes, you know, is they have handled it.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		And they've remained above the fray, and they've honored the code, and they've done their duty.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But not without a price.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not without a big price.
		Somebody sent me an email that I want to read to you and see if you have a response to it.
		Abductions occur on a daily basis throughout the United States to at least 10% of population.
		That was said to be a quote from you.
		This person says, do the math.
		10% of the current U.S. population is about 28 million.
		If that many have been abducted over the past 50 years, it comes to 560,000 per year on average.
		That averages to 46,666 per month, which comes to about 1,555 a day.
		And none of them raise a red flag anywhere?
		Are there 1,555 craft taking one person each day for a period of 50 years?
		Nobody noticed?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		you can't see him with that gravity as in the car When that gravity envelope is around the craft, you can't see it.
		And usually they come at night.
		Abductions invariably occur between 2 and 5 in the morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would it be your view that these abductions are just a way of monitoring the progress or lack of it or something or another with regard to the overall experiment?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		No, they pick up children at the age of between 3 and 4, that's the first time, and then between 6 and 7 is the second time.
		Then one more time about 13, and then that's it.
		And then abductions that occur after that are for different reasons.
		And I don't know what those reasons are, but that's basically when abductions occur.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, do you know what the reasons are with regard to the abductions that occur at those?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Just monitoring, checking, you know, it's a monitor check type deal.
		The children are fully conscious.
		They enjoy the experience.
		They think it's neat going to the moon.
		They're told this and that.
		And it's a matter-of-fact deal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the other inexplicable things we have, like, well, abductions and then crop circles and animal mutilations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The animal mutilations, I would presume, same motives?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't know too much about that.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		You know, when I first got into this, Linda Howe did that excellent video.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		What was it called?
unidentified		Oh, well.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		There you go, Spike, Mike.
		There's my Teflon mind again.
		Alien Harvest, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alien Harvest, yeah, of course.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Excellent.
		And scary, too.
		And an interesting thing, when Linda and I hooked up in Albuquerque, we drove down to see Clifford Stone.
		We took the exact road from Corona to the guy's ranch, the road that goes over and picks up the road at Roswell.
		And we get halfway, and there is like 30 dead cows around there.
		And I couldn't believe it.
		Here I am with Linda Howe.
		We're in the middle of a desert.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think I can recall her talking about that.
unidentified		In the day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right in the middle of it.
		And boom, she ran right into it.
		I think I remember that.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		I'm looking around.
		I saw one or two, and then she stood up on the hood of the truck, and she says, there's got to be three of them here.
		And so we drove down the road, south on the road that went to, what's his name's Ranch?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Brazil?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Brazil.
		Mac Brazil.
		And we go down maybe 10, 15 miles, and we went into a rancher.
		And we asked him if he knows anything about the dead cows.
		He said, yeah, they died of whatever it was.
		I forgot.
		But Linda went.
		So anyway, we go down and see Clifford Stone.
		She goes back home.
		I go back home.
		And she called later, and she said, you know, I checked with a veterinarian, and he said there's no possible way it could have been that disease because he told me, the vet told me, that there would have been a cordon around that place of 10 miles if that had been so.
		Now, let me make it clear that there were no typical animal mutilation type deals like eyeballs carved out or, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They were just dead.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		They were just dead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a continuing gigantic mystery, as would be the crop circles.
		Obviously, some are hoaxed, and absolutely obviously, many are not.
		Any thoughts on crop circles?
		I range from testing space based lasers and that sort of thing to aliens myself.
		And my thinking, and I suppose most people who think about this do, are just simply an anomaly of nature or some kind of message from the Earth itself.
		I don't know.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		I don't even have a good theory, but all I remember about the crop circles is when Doug and Dave tried to say that they were responsible, and it was just so irritating to see a story picked up by the press and valleyhood as, yeah, yeah, they admitted it, which didn't apply to any other crop circles around the world.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Or if they had, they certainly made good time getting from country to country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, when you talk about the press, I mean, that's a good subject all by itself, too, John.
		I have never really had anybody approach me who said, you know, you do one more show like the one you just did, whatever it was, and you or someone you know is toast.
		I've never been, no one's ever tried to affect me in that way.
		And so I've always wondered, everybody thinks there's a big conspiracy with regard to the press.
		I don't know.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		There isn't.
		There's no conspiracy with the press.
		They just don't want to write or do anything with this subject because they have to report to whoever they work for.
		And that guy's going to say, hey, look, drop it.
		I'm not interested in that.
		And the only guy that we know that was not swayed was George Knapp.
		And until he got into so much trouble over it, I forget what it was.
		And now he doesn't mention very much about it at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He does not much anymore, does he?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		No, I think Bob Strolledown said, look, you want to come back to work for Channel 8?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		I don't want to hear another friggin' thing about UFOs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they did, actually, not too long ago, they did this thing on Inside Area 51.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if you saw that.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		I saw it.
		I was really disappointed.
		Oh, my God, great.
		Here we are going to get to see it, and here we see, you know, that, you know, it's an old shot.
		Not an old shot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought, oh, when I saw the trailer, I thought, oh, my God, they've gotten cameras inside Area 51.
		And, you know, I went out of my way to see it.
		And I, too, went, ah, geez.
		You know, it just, it was, well, how would you explain what they showed us?
		They showed us this sort of, I don't know, mock-up or something.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it was a three-dimensional moving display of, you know, a photograph.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What would it be like, I guess, something like that.
		Anyway, they didn't really get cameras in there.
		All right, we'll take a break here at Bobby Air and start take calls for John Lear.
		I want a time at the end here, and we'll have plenty of it for your calls with John.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		Starts to be a story, day by day.
		People are getting ready for the moon.
		Some are happy, some are sad.
		Oh, come and let the music play.
		What the people need is a way to make them smile.
		It ain't so up.
		Music.
		Sweet beats are made of the end.
		And the whole world is everything.
		Everybody is looking for something.
		Some of them want to use you.
		Some of them want to be used by you.
		Some of them want to abuse you.
		Some of them want to be abused.
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 7757271295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 7757271222.
		To talk with Art Bell from East to the Rockies, call toll-free, at 800-825-5033.
		From West to the Rockies, call Art at 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast, and worldwide on the internet.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I kind of feel like this song, Roman Disagree and Sweet Dreams, are made of this.
		Who am I to disagree?
		Really?
		Who am I to disagree?
		That we're an experiment?
		That the moon was towed there for us, that on the moon there's a machine that trades or transmits and receives souls?
		Who am I to disagree?
		There's no absolute proof, but there, you know, there's some pretty strong indications that something's on the moon that somebody doesn't really want to talk about.
		For me, that's indisputable.
unidentified		For me, that's indisputable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Somebody says you ought to play that song, Art.
unidentified		Everyone's gone to the moon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John, welcome back.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Thanks.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		I just want to mention all the guys at the SETI team, Art Bell, wanted to say hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's nice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, you're all over the internet, aren't you?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		And Bad Boy at the Fantastic Forum came up with the name.
		Wait Vandenberg was the guy that had the crush on my mom.
		He was the MJ-12.
		And he was always at the house.
		So there were a lot of those guys around there all the time.
		I guess my dad was very, very involved in it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Apparently so.
		Have you had an opportunity to go through his things, his belongings, the family heirlooms, all that sort of thing?
		Anything ever show up?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		No, as you know, we didn't get along.
		And after he passed away, mom donated everything to the Aviation Museum in Dallas.
		And then they didn't do anything, so it was redonated to the Seattle Museum of Flight.
		And after she passed away, there was a few things left up there, but nothing that would have anything like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can I ask a person?
		We're going to go to calls here because a lot of people want to talk to you.
		And the last time you were on, I didn't really give the audience a chance.
		I hogged you.
		But it's a personal question, John.
		Thinking back, you had so much in common in so many ways.
		I mean, you had aircraft, the love of aviation, even if you didn't know it at the time, your dad's interest, so much in common.
unidentified		Why didn't you get along?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, it just, the main thing that I can remember is he did not want me to be a pilot.
		And when I wanted to take flying lessons when I was 16, he had me out in the backyard on Saturday learning how to paint.
		And I even remember the guy's name, Sidney Nesbitt.
		And I had my easel there on the grass there at a house at 321 El Mariel and Pacific Palisades.
		And I had to spend all day mixing paint and paintings on this piece of canvas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, but most fathers would want their children to follow in their footsteps.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why would you think you daddy?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		You would think so.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
unidentified		But that's the way it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, all right, here we go.
		First time caller line.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Instantaneous.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, sir.
unidentified		I think of it as like pervasive.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
unidentified		Yes, am I on?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you're on, so you should start from the beginning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sounded like we joined you in mid-conversation.
unidentified		Yeah, you know, I was rehearsing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were rehearsing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were rehearsing.
unidentified		Because I have this interesting perspective of how to look at the instantaneousness of gravity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, rehearsal is over.
unidentified		Okay, the real thing right now, right?
		Yeah.
		Okay, I think of it as being pervasive.
		Just like if you had the handle of a sword as a body, like any mass, like a planet, and the blade that extends from the handle would be like gravity.
		It's all there, right there.
		And you could move gravity, I mean, it would extend to, I guess, the farthest reaches of the universe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, gravity is everywhere, always.
unidentified		Right, gravity is everywhere, always, just like that handle.
		But you can move gravity sideways, just like if you move the handle of the sword, the blade would move from side to side, right?
		And that would be like the gravity.
		So you have all these, you know, every little mass has its own pervasiveness of gravity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, this man obviously took my question to heart and thought hard about it.
		Does he have a grasp on the way you think of gravity, John?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then you make a shot at it, John.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Although we think of it as instantaneous, hard as that may be, how would you describe gravity?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		It's instantaneous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I got that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there anything else you can say about it that would help to understand the nature of it?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		No, because I've been thinking about it for, you know, since Bob told me about it, and I'm comfortable with it now.
		I understand it.
		But as far as explaining it, you know, it's just something that will come to you if you think about it enough.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I will now.
		You always leave me with these things to think about.
		Wild Carline, you're on there with John Lear and Arpel.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Mindy Air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How you are?
unidentified		Okay, hi.
		I just have a quick question for John Lear.
		It's great to finally speak with you.
		Back when I was five, six, seven years old, I always had a feeling that these so-called aliens had something directly to do with the beings that people experience when they have a near-death experience or, you know, life after death.
		Because, you know, people basically explain the same type of beings.
		They either describe graves or beings of light.
		And even military personnel have described seeing beings of light, you know, along with graves.
		And I was taken to heart what you said about what's going on on the side of the moon.
		I think they do have something to do with the recycling of our souls.
		I think that on a level that we cannot comprehend with the human mind.
		And I think that our government knows that there's something about this, but they don't want to admit it because they don't want to give up the control that they have over people.
		And I wanted to get your thoughts on that.
		John?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		I don't understand the question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well.
unidentified		I mean, do you agree with what I said?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess it was more of a statement.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's saying that, yes, they control our souls, in fact, and that our government, or some portion of it, understands this, and they don't want us to know that because that would yield or it would eclipse their control over us.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's probably right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was a yes caller.
unidentified		Great.
unidentified		Okay, then.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much for the call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on there with John Lear.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hey, it's Mike.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey there.
unidentified		Hey, I'm calling from Newport, Delaware.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Newport, Delaware.
unidentified		Welcome.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yeah, he's talking about the Earth being towed, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, this is the moon.
unidentified		I mean, excuse me, the moon being towed.
unidentified		Was the Earth towed to?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
unidentified		You think about it, Art, your chuckle gives it away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I didn't chuckle.
unidentified		Well, your chuckle is very funny, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad you enjoy it, but on this occasion, I didn't chuckle.
unidentified		You've been chuckling pretty much all through this interview.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe I, you know, in a way, I can't grasp all of this.
unidentified		And you know what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And wait a minute.
		Wait a minute.
		Let me finish.
		And I can't.
unidentified		I'm on a three-second delay, but go ahead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you're not.
unidentified		I'm listening to you on the radio in the phone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, don't listen to me on the radio.
unidentified		I've turned it down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn it off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All the way off.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		You don't know it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, all the way off.
		On the other hand, I don't reject it either.
		It's as plausible as other explanations for why we're here and what we're about.
		It is as plausible.
unidentified		Ask your guest what religion he is.
unidentified		He an atheist or something?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you ask him.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John?
unidentified		Mr. Lear.
unidentified		Are you there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does it matter?
unidentified		Oh, of course it does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
unidentified		What does a Christian and an atheist have in common?
		I don't know what I don't think anything, except maybe different beliefs.
		And what you're believing in just doesn't make any sense to me, all right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know what, sir?
unidentified		And I don't know where he got his information from, Mr. Bell, but your chuckle definitely gives it away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then you misinterpreted my chuckle, which is what I was trying to do.
unidentified		As a matter of fact, hey, Art, I read about you in the paper just the other day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you?
unidentified		Yeah, and it's funny, in Delaware, they would print up something about you, and the sad part about it wasn't really about you, it was about your son.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm very well aware of the story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what?
unidentified		I mean, you know, why don't they print something nice about you and your family?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		Because they're the press.
		Why do you think that's what they do?
		No, John, you know, if somebody were to come on the air and tell a story about tablets magically being burned in stone, about oceans being parted as the hands were raised into the air, about the earth being created in six days and resting on days.
		You know, if these stories were told, they wouldn't sound any wilder, any more over the top than what you've been telling us about what could be our creation.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		No, they wouldn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They would be just as unbelievable and hard to grasp as everything that you've been...
		So if you hear me chuckle, it's not laughing at anything John is saying.
		It's probably more sort of a nervous chuckle myself when I realize that this could as easily be as anything else.
		West of the Rockies, you're on there with John Learn Art Bell.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Yes, Ken here, Imberian.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey there.
unidentified		Just for the record, I've probably heard more programs on Coast to Coast than any of your listeners for whatever that's worth.
		Now, that gives you my background.
		John, there is a video that has been published in War Run in Canada and then Japan, which I have copies of, called The Dark Side of the Moon.
		Now, it's an incredible video, which shows Kissinger, Donald Rumsfeld, who was Secretary of Defense some 30 years ago, whatever, Hitam NASA, on and on, plotting this concept of making the movie with Stanley Kubrick and all that.
		And it proves, without doubt, it was fabricated in case it didn't pull off.
		Now, I know this sounds fantastic, but I've got the video.
		They're publishing it elsewhere.
		I would love to send it to you for your observation and look it over.
		Now, Norrie seems to be resistant to look at it.
		He's been the last one to see it.
		I can probably see why, because he thinks we went.
		Now, do you know the video I'm talking about today?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think he does, and if he doesn't, I do.
		You don't.
		Okay, John, there is a whole covey of people, I mean, quite a large number of people, actually, who don't think that we ever went to the moon.
		And they will cite a sort of a long litany and list of evidence, you know, that, well, you know, the spacesuit could not have managed to fit through this portal or, you know, the flag didn't wave right or any one of zillions of things.
		They'll say they would have died in the radiation belt, the Van Allen radiation belt.
		All kinds of things they say, trying to say that we did not go to the moon.
		And I'm sure you've heard some of that.
		So do you buy into any of it?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		No, I think I can understand where the problem arises because some of the footage certainly was fake for various reasons.
		But they did go to the moon.
		There's no doubt in my mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The place that you begin to differ is with respect to what they saw when they got there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you suppose, John, that there was knowledge of what was on the moon before the astronauts reached the moon?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yes, because what happened is when they sent the first ships there, you know, they couldn't get it right.
		They either missed it or they crashed in the moon.
		And the reason was because they didn't realize the true gravity of the moon.
		Everybody accepts that it's one-sixth that of Earth, and it's not, it's 64%.
		And when they got that right, then they started getting everything the rest right.
		But the thing is, they couldn't tell that to the public.
		The fact that it has 64% instead of 1 sixth is the reason when you saw pictures of the astronauts jumping, they could at best do a foot, maybe 18 inches.
		And then when they went on walks, they were just simply tired lugging that equipment because essentially more than half the gravity of Earth.
		And there is an atmosphere on the Moon.
		It's equal to about 18,000 feet on Earth.
		As a matter of fact, they could have taken off their helmets and breathed for a little while.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
		I've never heard that before.
		Certainly, we cannot see any atmosphere on the moon.
		Can we?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		From Earth?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Oh, well.
		through very large telescopes I mean I've never seen anything depicting what seemed to be even anything remotely you know foggy or There's clouds on the moon.
		Or above the moon.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a pretty hard concept, John.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's an atmosphere on the moon which includes sufficient clouds.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		You know, what I refer you to and what my pavet photograph is and what I have hanging behind me in a form of, I think it's a format of, let's see, must be more than 16 by 20.
		It's about 2 feet by 2 feet.
		But I purchased Lunar Orbiter 2, 162H, which was a photo of Copernicus.
		It's taken an oblique angle.
		And you're looking directly at the inside of the craters of Copernicus.
		And it is so neat, because it was the first photo that I got that essentially was unretouched for this reason.
		When NASA started retouching photos in 1967 to eliminate all the offending material, what they do is they take a picture of that, and then that would be the photo that they'd hand out to the public.
		A few escaped attention, but what didn't escape attention was NASA in 1967 never realized or couldn't conceive that in 1995 and the 2000 that we would have computers that could take a negative or an actual photograph and digitize it and enlarge it to something they had no idea.
		So these days we can take negatives that they thought were safe of offending material and enlarge it and see all kinds of wonderful things.
		Now on the side of this photo, Lunar Orbiter 2162H, there are a number of silos which obviously contain vapor.
		And in some of them the vapor is going up, in some of them the vapor is going down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Now you have to have atmosphere to have vapor.
		And also on one of those cliffs is what we call the parking garage.
		And if I can find it here, what I'm going to do is read you Bob Lazar's statement, which I have signed, and it's dated August 23rd, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is Bob Lazar?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
		Okay.
		And when I first started to bring to his attention all this stuff on the moon, he wrote this statement.
		It says, I, Bob Lazar, promise to kill myself if any of John's moon stuff is true.
		Sign Bob Lazar, August 23rd, 1996.
		Okay, now, here's his statement on August 5th, 1998, after showing him the parking garage on the top of Copernicus.
		I'm just kidding.
		It's a three-story.
		It looks like a three-story building with a ramp on the side of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		But he says, I, Bob, and this is August 5th, 1998, about two years later, I, Bob Lazar, in return for not having to honor my commitment to kill myself, if any of John's moon stuff was true, do freely admit that the object in the crater Copernicus on the moon, saved as Apple Crate, is a box which I don't know what is doing there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		fine bob Oh, John, you really have those two documents from Bob.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Garage Full.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bob, of course, I've interviewed now many times.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		He is the skeptic of all skeptics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he absolutely is.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		He's not going to believe something unless it's hands-on.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		And that's why, last time you interview him, you know, he said, you know, I think Chile Lear is crazy, but unfortunately, some of his stuff is crazy enough to be true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, when you ask him about aliens, he'll say, never saw one.
		When you ask him about anything alien-related, sorry, don't know anything about it.
		Never saw it.
		Can't tell you anything about it.
		Of course, he did see all those alien craft up at Area 51, but anything he didn't see with his own eyes or touch, he wouldn't have a thing to do with it.
		You know, I'd love to have copies of those.
		Hold on, we're at the top of the hour.
		My guest is John Lear.
unidentified		i have no idea those documents existed We're too hot to be sleeping We're too hot to be sleeping
		What do no gifts we have to do?
		Sweet, if you want the summer nights Gazing at the distant lights in the starved sky They say that all the things must end someday All the things must
		fall But don't you know that it makes me so To say goodbye to you Wish I didn't have to go No, no, no, no To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach ART by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is, and we are discussing the almost unimaginable, aren't we?
		That it might not be as we all thought, that it might be something else entirely, that we, our souls, might be something other than what we have thought them to be.
		At least you have to hold it out, certainly, as a possibility.
		And when you look at the U.S. space program, you have to wonder about a lot of things.
		I'm putting you together with John Lear, coming up next.
unidentified		music
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got to admit, the atmosphere on the moon thing got me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John, if there was atmosphere on the moon, then there would be transmission of sound, wouldn't there?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there is transmission of sound on the moon.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		If there's atmosphere, somebody just brought up a good point that if there was atmosphere.
		Well, I'll have to bring it up later.
		I've got my Teflon line going again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		You're watching, no doubt, feedback up on the forum or something, aren't you?
		Yes, I can tell.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with John Lear.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, sorry.
		I wanted to ask Mr. Lear if there was any relation between ghosts and what our souls are, and secondly, if he knows anything about Venus.
		Thanks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Our souls and ghosts.
		You know, there's an awful lot of paranormal stuff that really does go on that seem to involve people who were once living here on Earth and may have not been transmitted up as scheduled or something or another, John.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		My opinion is that's exactly what happened.
		If somebody dies an unscheduled, so to speak, death that hasn't been scheduled and they can't make the pickup, that little bundle of energy goes around as a ghost and is trapped forever because I don't think there's any other way to bring them up.
		Now, in my opinion, when there's a big disaster in order to cover picking up the souls because of something that wasn't planned or whatever, they have apparently giant soul collectors come down.
		Now, right after 9-11, I know whether you saw it, but there was a series of three photos taken by Gamma News Service, and it might still be on the internet.
		And you could see over the towers a huge, I think it was rectangular-shaped object.
		And it's three photos, and it's in a different place.
		And I believe that those were soul collectors in order to pick up the souls that would have been lost if that hadn't been in place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are also a lot of people who believe these things photographed called orbs might have something to do with souls.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And there were around the 9-11 disaster an awful lot of those kind of photographs.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it could be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Other people think they're just little reflections and different things.
		But these orbs seem pretty complex.
		I've looked at them very carefully, and they're not easily always able to be explained by some photographic anomaly, in my opinion.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with John Lear.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Art.
unidentified		Thanks for taking my call.
unidentified		This is Dan from Riverside.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Riverside, yes, sir.
unidentified		I can remember sitting in physics class staring out the window and couldn't figure out how the moon could not spin.
unidentified		Is that what's termed the rotational lock, John?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		What did he say, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, he's saying you remember sitting in school wondering how the moon could not spin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Talked about the rotational lock.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And your question, Color?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean you're suggesting that it's so unnatural as to be obviously artificial.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, that's a pretty good point, John.
		You guys got that right.
		It is odd, isn't it, that it would be very just fixed the way it is, exactly what we need, providing exactly what we need.
		That is an interesting observation.
		Let me know what you think about that one a little bit.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		If the moon was trapped by Sacred, if it was just passing by and went into, you know, got trapped by the Earth's gravity, it would be more of an elliptical orbit.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		It wouldn't be perfectly round.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a good circular.
		That's a very, very, very good point.
		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on there with John Lear.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Morris.
unidentified		Remain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Morris.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I have something quick to say and a question.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Okay.
		Revelation 21, new heaven and earth.
		The city is laid out as a square, and its length is as great as its width.
		And he measured the city with a rod 1,500 miles.
		Its length, width, and height are equal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A box.
unidentified		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Yeah, and the question is, does John know anything about the branding?
		I called you once before about it.
		It's like a little stamp on the shoulder, size of a quarter, dots equal like a little red dot.
		They're like spaced apart like a 16th of an inch.
		Does he know anything about that?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't know anything about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so apparently some sort of something that we're branded, he's suggesting as cattle would be when we're abducted or dealt with in some way.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		No, I haven't heard anything about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I haven't heard anything about that.
		Okay.
		West of the Rockies, you're on there with John Lear.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good evening, gentlemen.
unidentified		This is Dot in Salt Lake City.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Doc.
unidentified		I have a question.
		It's going to be hard for you because I want you to tell me perhaps what I saw late at night in the sky.
		And actually, it's more or less what I did not see.
		This is a phenomenon to me because I always go out about 10 or 11 and walk the dog.
		And it's most shocking because when I looked up, I saw nothing, but I could see the air in the form of a V moving from north to south.
		But there was nothing there visible for me to see, except the only way I can describe it is if you have a boat that is going through water very slowly, you can see the water in the form of a V that slips back behind the boat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
unidentified		That is what I saw in the sky.
		And I've never taken drugs and I don't drink, but I know what I saw that night.
		And I stood there and I looked at it, and the shocking part about it was it was extremely low.
		Very close to my looking up.
		It was not really way high up at all.
		It was low, like over maybe three stories high, just over rooftop.
		And I could see this V form and just keep going through the sky, but there was nothing there.
		What did I see?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		A UFO.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you saw a UFO.
		That's right.
		I've had my two great sightings.
		One really spectacular, John, and the other still spectacular, just not as close, but both were amazing.
		These UFOs that are seen now, we're finding out in every nation on Earth.
		I mean, all the Russian files and all the Chinese files and all the Netherlands, Africa, God, everywhere in the world, John.
		They're everywhere.
		Are these many species are they all monitoring us?
		And are we the big prize, the souls?
		Is that the deal?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		That is one theory.
		But, you know, there's so many different kinds of craft.
		The one that's been most intriguing is the JAL incident of the Japan Airlines 747 doing the over-the-pole flight and coming down into Anchorage and doing the circle at Fairbanks.
		And the drawing, I have the full report that somebody did on it, and the drawing the captain made of this ship, it was three times, at least three times the size of a battleship.
		And it looked like a giant walnut.
		And it was so immense, so detailed, the whole crew drew their concept of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember the wire story on it, John.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		And you remember Phil Klass said it was the planet Venus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		And the only thing I was wondering is it'd sure be interesting if that was like a one- or two-man craft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		But all you can do is speculate about so many craft in our atmosphere.
		I mean, obviously, some percentage of them are probably, you know, government test programs, government planes, government whatever.
		But an awful lot of it obviously also is not.
		So we are being visited, and the great question is, why?
		You can't answer that one.
		Who?
		You can only partially answer that one because it would appear to be a whole different group of people visiting us, John.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, as I've said many times, I estimate there must be at least 80 different species, and I base that on the different types of aliens that the people have seen, the different types of craft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All it does is beg questions.
		Are they fighting with each other?
		Are they simply all observing us?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Well, there are definitely incidents of them fighting each other because there have been eyewitness reports of one UFO shooting down another UFO.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Also, reports, John, of our shooting at UFOs.
		Do you have any comments on that?
		I mean, there really are quite a few documented incidences of our shooting at UFOs.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we did that quite a bit.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		And, of course, the most famous one was the Thomas Mantel incident.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was that?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		That was the one where he was flying the P-51 over Kentucky.
		And he said, you can't imagine how big this thing is.
		I'm climbing to get it.
		And then they found the wreckage of the P-51.
		It was a very famous incident.
		I'm trying to remember the exact name of it, but it was Thomas Mantel.
		And it was in Kentucky.
		And they found the remnants of the P-51 with damage.
		Whatever they shot at it, there was damage at the craft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that, I mean, we are getting more sophisticated weapons all the time, John.
		There's even some evidence that, you know, I'm sure you've seen the STS-50 stuff.
		I'm sure you've seen some of the other STS video in which it appears as though somebody is shooting at a UFO and it makes impossible turns avoiding this thing that's coming at it.
		I bet you've seen that video.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I wish I had Bob Lazar's comment on it because, you know, I was convinced that that was something other than ice particles.
		But boy, you couldn't sell that to Lazar.
		I mean, he just said, no, those are ice particles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did he offer you some sort of suicidal paper on that one?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		I have the paper.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's funny.
		I'd love to see those.
		On the International Line, you're on the air with John Lear.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, how are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Toronto.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Toronto.
unidentified		AM640 Module Radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, of course.
unidentified		Yeah, thanks for taking my call, guys.
		Great show.
		I was wondering if you had any idea that gravity might be some kind of a living force?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you there?
unidentified		I think I'm still here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are there, okay.
unidentified		I'm trying to find out if you think that maybe gravity would be some kind of a living force, and if time was also part of the grand experiment.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Did he say living source?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Living force.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could gravity be some sort of living force, is what he said.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And your second question, sir?
unidentified		I was wondering if maybe time and the moon is all part of the grand experiment that we're all seem to be part of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, I'd love to get John's thoughts on time, anyway.
		Time is kind of a wonderful and strange thing to think about.
		Does it wrap into anything that you've heard anything about through all this, John?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		You know, I came up with the formula for the speed of time.
		Bob helped me with the wording, but I believe it went the speed of time is directly proportional with the gravity flux.
		In other words, the more the gravity, the less the speed.
		And I might have to set inversely proportional.
		But the speed of time is inversely proportional with the gravity flux.
		The more intense the gravity, the less the speed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, isn't that interesting?
		All right.
		West of the Rockies, you're on there with John Lear.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah.
		This is Bob in Levin, Oregon.
		Hello, Bob.
		And I had a couple of things I wanted to kind of throw out to John and see what he thinks about it.
		One is the I think it's a prime example of the unified field is a black hole.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And the other is I've believed for about 40 years that the elements, they become unstable or radioactive.
		But I believe that after you reach a certain plateau, they become stable again.
		And through this, I think you'd find all kinds of bizarre characteristics.
		You know, like metals that would be clear, like glass, and some would be, say, shields, you know, to magnetic fields.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there is a theory, I think, that as you go through the table of elements, if you were to keep going, you'd go through a group of unstable elements, and then they would begin to get stable again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that what you're talking about?
unidentified		Right, yeah.
		I've believed that for about 40 years.
		And that's like with the element 115.
		I kind of wondered what you thought about that.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		No, that's correct.
		They do get stable 108, 109, 110, up until it's stable at 115, then they become unstable again.
		116 is unstable.
		Pump protons into 115.
		When one plugs in, becomes 116.
		116 instantaneously decays, and that's the instability.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that if we were to acquire the technological capability to manipulate gravity, John, and then we were to begin to travel outside our neighborhood, so to speak, that we would be stopped?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
		I think we have some form of gravity manipulation now.
		I mean, we couldn't not have.
		We've been working on it so long.
		There is some form of it.
		But I'm not sure whether I'm positive it's not to the extent where we're going to go visit any other solar systems.
		We might be able to cruise around the moon and maybe a trip to Mars here and there, but certainly not the type of thing that Bob looked at at the testite.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But even if just part of this is true, John, about the ability, for example, to manipulate gravity, that would lead to another power source that the world astoundingly badly needs.
		And that's something else Steve Greer talks about.
		And that part of what Steve Greer is after, I'm really interested in.
		He talks about the drive of these craft that you're also talking about, and that that would mean an energy source for a world that's about to run out of energy.
		This is really important stuff, isn't it?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		But I don't think we're going to run out of energy.
		We're not about to run out of energy.
		And I don't think that type of advanced type of power would ever trickle down to the public.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't think so?
unidentified		No.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		So if that's what they're counting on, it ain't going to happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Perhaps we're not going to run out of energy in the immediate, but there is sort of an end to this fossil fuel thing, at least at a price that we can all afford.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there's going to have to be something that comes around the bend, or predictably there are going to be wars, terrible wars over energy and food and all the things that we'll run out of.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Well, hopefully they'll be cleaning out the entry-dish long before we run out of fossil fuels.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back to that again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You really think that they're going to do that?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		It's an opinion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you are right that about, what is it, every 25,000 years or whatever the cycle is, there is something that comes along that does appear to do that.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you feel we're very close to that point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And now you're sort of fatalistic about it, aren't you?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, what yeah, it happens, it happens.
		I'm ready to go back to the machine and the moon, and I'm sure they'll gather up everybody and put them back in the cube on the moon while everything happens.
		And then, you know, the cycle starts again and they send us all back for whatever, you know, the next experiment is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's an entire belief system, John.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It really is, isn't it?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		I never thought about it that way, but yeah, now that you mention it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is.
		It's like a religious belief system, John.
		There's no question about it.
		All right, hold tight.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		So it begins, now I've had your gun, needles and pins, what have you done?
		Watching that cloud, till you return, hiding that door, and watching you burn.
		Thank you.
		I'll begin.
		Be a day.
		This is my life.
		This is my life.
		Be it silent, sand, the smell, touch, the something inside that we need so much.
		The sight of the touch, or the scent of the sand, or the strength of an oak moves deep in the ground.
		The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
		Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing, to lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing.
		All these things in our memories hold the use of the warmth.
		5, 5, 6, so take this place on this trip, just for me.
		5, take a big roll, drink my ice, up my seat, it's for free.
		Want to take a ride?
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free 800-825-5033.
		From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach ARC by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's funny.
		Years ago, when I first interviewed John, we then tended to talk about an awful lot of hardware.
		You know, the hardware aspect of all of this, the gravity amplifiers, the manner of space travel, just UFO sightings, that sort of thing.
		And toward the end of that series of interviews that I did with John, he began to talk about human beings as containers.
		And that's kind of where we left it.
		He said, you know, you know Maury as well.
		I'm not going to tell you about that because you wouldn't believe it or it's too crazy or whatever.
		Well, tonight, the rest of the story has sort of unwound.
		And to me, it does add up to a belief system, a kind of a belief system.
		It replaces for John, obviously, what many Christians believe to be the reason that we're here and all the rest of it.
		And I wonder if John finds it to be a satisfactory belief system.
		If he's satisfied, comforted by the knowledge that, well, he obviously believes this.
		wonder if it is satisfying It is interesting, all those years ago, that's kind of where we left off.
		And I just sort of understood tonight that I'm hearing the rest of the story, the whole rest of the story.
		And it does amount to a belief system, as Christians believe what it is said in the Bible.
		You, John, obviously, from all the reading and research you've done, you believe this.
		So I guess the question is, do you find what you believe to be true about our nature and all you've said tonight?
		Do you find that a satisfying it works for me?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		I'm certainly not trying to sell it to anybody else.
		I don't have any videotapes to sell.
		I don't have a website.
		I'm not selling a book.
		I don't intend to write a book.
		However, if I did write a book, the name of it would be The First Hundred Dumbest Things I Ever Did in an Airplane.
unidentified		But I'm not going to be writing that for a while.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tim, fast blast me the following from L.A. Art, if what John is saying is true, why love?
		Why live?
		Why should we strive for something that's merely a facade or distraction so we wouldn't find out that we're merely containers for some alien race?
		Why not just die and end the experiment?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Well, certainly that's been an old question that's been asked for many hundreds and thousands of years.
		Why live?
		I can't answer that except, you know, I just enjoy life.
		I love going up to the mine.
		I love riding around in the countryside.
		In two weeks, the hills of Gold Butte are going to explode with color and flowers, and it's just going to be just a wonderful time of the year, which I look forward to.
		So, you know, I can't help anybody else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Loose translation, you enjoy life.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, okay.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with John Learn RFL.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, my name's Matt.
		Yeah, I had a question for you.
		I was wondering if you knew anything about the Yellow Book project.
		Like, where they captured an alien from Roswell and they interrogated him and wrote all the files in a yellow book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you know what?
		I think John actually knows a lot of the story of the aliens that did come into the possession of our government.
		You know something about that, right, John?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the yellow book, I think, was the original name for the government Bible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The government Bible.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's where they keep the history of all the crash retrievals and what was retrieved and what they found out about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was Bob Lazar, did he read that Government Bible?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he I don't know whether he read that.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		He was giving about 100 or so of briefings, and they were anywhere from two to ten pages long and just an overview of all kinds of different things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with John Lear.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hello.
		Hello.
		Hi, how are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Temporally, I'm in Richmond, Virginia, or heading into Richmond, Virginia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the fly.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Yeah, on the fly.
		So, well, I'd like to say two things.
		And one is about the thought of the instantaneous gravity.
		And I've done some studying my own, and I chose chemistry as my major because I think that chemistry over physics is just a personal belief that chemistry over physics is going to wind up being the determining science, the one that we will come to understand and how it affects our world and understand it a little better than physics.
		But instantaneously, I have a feeling, I keep going back to calculus and how when even as humans we try to understand an integral, you take an integral of something and you still, you get the end of the derivative and you still have to have a constant on the end.
		And the constant is usually not solved for.
		And we just drop it off because you still have infinitesimally small rectangles underneath the function curve that you can never get the exact value.
		And that's, I keep going back to that and thinking that the instantaneous gravity includes that constant.
		But that's just my thought about that.
		You got me thinking about it, so I wanted to share it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sounds like quite a few of you out there took up the challenge.
		It's really hard to even consider something that's instantaneous.
		There is no speed to it.
		It's instantaneous, which has to mean, I guess, that it was always there, it's here now, and will always be.
		And I don't know any other way to try and grasp it myself.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		That's a good analogy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think when people remote view Johnny?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		attached to that.
		Because I've always thought that.
		I thought the instantaneous gravity was directly tied into the remote viewing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, because remote viewers always say that, that there's no barrier at all between the present, past, and the future.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Forward in time, backward in time, any place you want to go, except the moon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Except the moon.
		Is the Rockies?
		You're on there with John Lear.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		Hi, Mr. Lear.
		How are you?
		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I think he's fine.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		Okay.
		I couldn't hear him.
		This is Lee.
		I'm calling from Pennsylvania.
		I'm listening on WDEL.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And I wanted to first, I want to make a comment before I ask my question.
unidentified		I want to say that the John Lear test that you were playing before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		Yes, I do believe in disclosure even after hearing that because I think what you were saying about people, religious people pertaining to that, I think people who have strong religious beliefs are going to believe what they believe no matter what they hear from the government.
		And my question for Mr. Lear is, if you believe so strongly what you believe, and as Art said, it is a belief system, and you think that's really what's happening, and you don't think you're against disclosure, then why go on the radio and even talk about it?
		Why tell people about it at all if there's nothing we can do about it and if you don't believe in disclosure?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		I'm not so much against disclosure.
unidentified		I'm just telling you it ain't going to happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But in a way, she poses a good question.
		On the one hand, yes, you're not against disclosure, but you're saying it's not going to happen.
		On the other hand, you're trying to disclose.
		Or you are disclosing.
		Certainly what you believe and what this is all about.
		You just don't think it'll ever happen.
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that's a fair answer.
		Welcome to the Rockies.
		You're on there with John Lear.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		This is Dennis in Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Dennis.
unidentified		I've got a question.
		First, I want to say I love tonight's show.
		It's been inspiring.
		If I've been chuckling, it's because I'm just tickled to think that this very well could all be true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it could.
unidentified		Yeah, and I think that's why if somebody's sensing that you're chuckling, Hart, that you're just tickled at the thought that it could be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am, and I'm saying heretically, perhaps, that, you know, it's as logical and maybe in modern times more logical or more easily accepted than perhaps the Standard story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
unidentified		Yeah, well, I've got a question, and that is simply, John, what do you suspect about Venus that's contrary to what we've been told?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		As I mentioned last time, I think it's a planet just like Earth.
		There's beings probably very similar to us, and we're just not supposed to know about it.
		There were several Navy research projects that went on in the late 50s that said that there was water vapor on the planet, and it looked like it could support life, and those were quickly shut up.
		And then the cover-up went into place that it was molten lava, and it had 90 bars of pressure.
		And they went to the point of going too far, explaining there was nothing on Venus.
		I mean, you can just see some guy said, now, I want you to come up with a program that nobody is ever going to think that there is life on Venus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		And they all sat around, well, how about Bolt Lather?
		That's good.
		What else?
		How about 90 bars?
		That's a good one.
		What else?
		How about Thunder and Lightning?
		Yeah, that's good.
		What else?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		International Line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, this is Ray from Red Loose, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're going to have to really yell, and you're on the right line, too.
		I don't know how you got on this line.
		Anyway, yell at us because you're not loud.
unidentified		Oh, Okay, I'll yell at you.
unidentified		I was just wondering, Mr. Lear is pretty much an empiricist, but has he done any study over what Zachariah Zitchin has written over the years?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		What who has written?
unidentified		Zachariah Zitchin?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he's right on the money.
		What I like about Stitchin is he came to meet Lazar, and Lazar told me about this because I wasn't at the meeting.
		He said, the one thing about Zachariah is he does all the reading and interpretation himself.
		He doesn't believe anything else that anybody tells him.
		He has to go and read the tablets or whatever he reads by himself and do the transhibit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, then you know the Sitchin story, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you know that he believes that we were once gold miners, that we were put on earth to do the physical drudgery labor of mining gold, and that we were actually designed for that purpose.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Right.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		William Bradley came up with the same thing, same theory in the gods of Eden.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The thing that, you know, I drift around with regard to what I believe, but I do acknowledge that we all have this, and you can prove it to yourself.
		This is something you can prove to yourself.
		Go get a really solid gold coin.
		It has to be an old one because they don't make new ones around here.
		And hold it in your hand or hold a very high quality gold nugget in your hand.
		And there's really something special about the human spirit and gold.
		You will feel something special when you hold gold in your hands.
		That's indisputable.
		You try it yourself.
		You know what I mean, John?
unidentified		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's something about gold.
		And I wonder if that's old and ingrained and genetic.
		Anyway, that's my little offering.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Lear.
unidentified		Hi.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Hi, this is Ken from Nashville.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nashville, okay.
		You too will have to yell at us.
		You're not too strong.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I just wanted to ask John, well, I believe in God, and if I respect his opinion, if the aliens created us, who created the aliens?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, there you've got it, John.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's a Christian saying he believes in God, and he believes in the possibility that God not only created us, but created the aliens as well.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		That's certainly possible.
		Like I say, the owners of the Greys created them to monitor us.
		I mean, it's like they were stamped out of a mold on Zeta reticularly.
		That was their only job, the Greys, is to take care of us.
		And they're, you know, glorified robots.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you don't for one second dismiss the possibility of a greater creative force.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Now, what was that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't dismiss the possibility of a greater creative force?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely not.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Who do you think made all this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that will satisfy many, in a way.
		That's interesting, isn't it?
		West of the Rockies, you're on there with John Lear and Arbel.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, this is Ryan and Boise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Ryan.
unidentified		Anyways, I had some questions about your saying there were ships that collected souls, maybe, or something that collected souls and took them to the moon.
		What about things that sow the souls?
		At what point do the souls come into the vessel of the human?
		Is it at birth or during the intimacy?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, why not?
		If a soul is, actually, the word John said was transmitted with respect to the usual procedure.
		Transmitted, the soul was transmitted to Earth.
		At what point do you suppose, John, the soul is transmitted to Earth?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I'm beginning to think it's when you're born.
		But the fact is, you can have memories of in the womb, but that doesn't necessarily mean you have a soul.
		So it's up for Graham.
		You pick one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that contemporary argument will continue.
		And of course, that argument's been going on for a long time.
		Well, when the heart starts beating, well, at the moment you get spanked and draw your first breath, or at the moment of conception.
		I know one lady I used to work for who said, it's when you say, how you doing, babe?
		It's always a pleasure to have you here, John.
		And when you're here, you always leave me with about a million things to think very deeply about.
		And that's what you did tonight.
		I'm going to be thinking about the instantaneous nature of gravity now for a long time.
		And I'm going to be asking any scientific...
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No?
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why are you not writing a book?
		You obviously could.
		I bet you've been approached.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		No, I haven't.
		I'm really not interested in writing a book.
		One of the things is I reserve the right to change my mind.
		And if you put something down on paper, and then change it, they say, oh, yeah, he changed his mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm glad you didn't demand that Bob take his life.
		And it's really been a pleasure having you here tonight, my friend.
		And I don't know, we'll do it again.
		I mean, these are incredibly different views than most people have.
		And a lot of people are going to be thinking about what you've said for a long time.
		So thank you.
john lear ▲ ● ▼		Okay, thank you, Eric.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care, John.
		That's John Lear, son of Bill Lear.
		And yes, a lot of what you heard tonight is very strange and amounts to a belief system of his own, doesn't it?
		But the purpose of this program is to get you thinking about things that you don't normally think about.
		That's what we're here for.
		It doesn't mean that you adopt, believe, or grasp anything necessarily or that you must grasp anything that is said here.
		But no other forum gives people the opportunity to be exposed to this kind of information.
		Strange as much of it may seem to you.
		There just simply is not another forum that will allow this kind of exploration.
		So I'm happy to have brought you John.
		We'll do so again and glad that he continued the rest of the story, as Paul would say, tonight.
		Because believe me, about a decade or better ago now, John left me at about that point that our bodies were nothing but containers.
		Tonight, we found out much more about for what, how it happens, where it comes from, at least in the most immediate, our moon.
		From the high desert, y'all have a great week ahead with George.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		Good night.
unidentified		Good night in the desert, shooting stars across the sky.
		This magical journey will take us on a ride Filled with the longing, searching for the truth.
		Will we make it to tomorrow?
		Will the sun shine on you?
		in the desert By the way, for those of you who don't know, that's Crystal Gale, of course, singing this song, which she sang for me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She's a beautiful woman in all ways that one can name, inside and out.
		and uh...
		it's quite a piece of music i'm getting endless requests Honestly, folks, I don't know.
		Maybe on an album coming out soon.
		Anyway, I wanted you to know that's Crystal Gale with a beautiful, beautiful voice from the high desert.
		Good night.

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