John Lear, aviation insider and UFO theorist, ties his family’s ties to Roswell—including Bill Lear’s alleged involvement with MJ-12—to claims that Earth is an extraterrestrial experiment, with the moon artificially placed as a "soul antenna." He cites suppressed NASA evidence (e.g., Spirit Rover signal manipulation), Bob Lazar’s gravity phone tech using elements 115/116, and the 1948 Aztec crash’s "three-foot-tall charred bodies" to argue humanity is under covert observation. Lear estimates 80+ alien species, dismisses Venus as a "molten lie," and suggests soul transmission during birth—though disclosure remains unlikely due to the experiment’s secrecy. [Automatically generated summary]
You know, the Forum Pirates, for a long time, some doubted, John, that it really was you posting up there.
All that can end now.
You know, the last time you were on, John, you did the famous, I don't know, 10-minute, whatever it was, disclosure thing.
I, of course, picked that off, and I began affectionately calling it the Lear test.
And so every time I'd get an advocate for disclosure on here, I play it for him until finally so many of them had heard it that they already had their answer formulated, so I stopped.
But you absolutely got everybody's attention with that.
You know, I'm not reading your bio and what you're all about this time, so instead, let's turn around this time.
Okay, I grew up in Santa Monica and Pasig Palisades, but moved to Geneva, Switzerland when I was 12, and then went to the International School of Geneva for a few months, and then to a couple of boarding schools, one of which was La Rosé, which is supposedly the School of Kings.
I didn't make the king part.
Moved back to Pacific Palisades and went to Chadwick Boarding School in the 10th grade and then University High, and then I graduated from Santa Monica High, and then moved back to Geneva and went back to Rosé for college prep.
My dad had a lot of electronic business and a lot of airplane electronics that he wasn't too successful in selling to the American United States Airlines.
And he went over to Europe to see if he could sell it to those airlines.
One concept he developed and built was the automatic landing of airplanes.
And the Caravelle, which was built by Sud Aviation in France, was the first airplane to land 0-0.
That's what was taking him back and forth and moving us back and forth.
Went back to Geneva in 1960 and went back to that boarding school, but I didn't like that too much, so I went to work for my dad and my brother flying at Twin Beach that they had flying around for all these business deals.
And then in June of 61, I was out, I had the Swiss aerobatic license and I was out doing aerobatics.
And I made a slight miscalculation and crashed, and I had pretty severe injuries.
I got a letter from General Jimmy Doolittle shortly after the accident telling me about all the mistakes he had made, and all he did was try and profit from his mistakes.
I have that framed on my wall.
It's a two-page letter, and between it, I have a picture of him taking off the B-25 off the Kiddiocarrier to bomb Tokyo.
Anyway, I had the crash, and somehow I developed gangrene in both my legs and wounds and was sent to the Lovelace Clinic in August of 61.
Now, Randy Lovelace, as you know, was a surgeon in 1947 at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, and the Air Force sent him back to Albuquerque, where he was from, to establish the Lovelace Clinic.
And he did the original autopsies on, or some of the autopsies, on the aliens that were recovered in Roswell.
Randy Lovelace was on the board of Lear Incorporated, my dad's company, and dad was on the board of the Lovelace Clinic.
It was interesting how close I was to what was going on, but didn't have the slightest idea.
Then I moved to, recovered and moved to West Los Angeles and worked selling sheet metal bending, and then decided to go to the Art Center and study industrial design, which I did for about a year.
Then went back to Geneva to see my girlfriend and ended up getting married and going back to work for my dad in Wichita, Kansas, who was now building the Learjet.
And I was director of PR.
But I loved working on things, and I ended up working graveyard shift fucking rivets on the Chief's Lodge number one.
He built the Lear Star, which was a twin-engine airplane, Lodestar, Lockheed Lodestar.
And he actually just modified the Lockheed Lodestar into an executive transport.
And he made it go, you know, a few miles an hour faster, and it was very plush and everything.
And they built about 62 of them, but there was a lot of crashes.
And he got the idea to build a business jet in 1957 or 1958 and asked the board of directors for the money, and they wouldn't give it to him because of all the problems they'd had with the Lear Star.
So he sold his stock in Lear Incorporated to Siegler.
It became Lear Siegler.
And he formed the Swiss American Aviation Company to build the Lear jet, which was going to be built in Switzerland because he thought there was great engineers and lots of materials, which he found out were wrong.
He spent about two years in Altenrine in Switzerland trying to get it going, but it just didn't work.
And that's why I moved to Wichita, because there was engineers available, talent available to get the thing moving.
I flew Chase in our Cessna 320 Skynight, which, of course, couldn't keep up with the jet, but we got some pictures, and it was really an exciting time.
But I wanted to fly more, and I couldn't fly because I wasn't qualified as a test pilot, so I moved to Opalaca, Florida, and worked as the editor for an aviation news magazine called Aero News, which we moved out to El Segundo in California.
And that folded, and I went to work as a flight instructor at Hawthorne Airport and then Van Euys and was finally hired at the Flying Tiger Line to fly their Learjet.
And this is in 1964.
There was another guy there, an old pilot that was actually the chief pilot of the executive division who I worked for.
And in November of 65, he crashed with seven people on board just outside of Palm Springs.
And it was a really terrible accident.
It was entirely his fault, not the airplane's fault.
But anyway, I ended up running that part of the executive.
And then in March 23rd, on May 23rd, 1966, Hank Beard, who was chief of engineering flight test, Rick King, a factory pilot, John Zimmerman, an NAA observer, and myself left Wichita Municipal Airport, and we flew around the world setting a world speed record.
We made 17 stops, and the total lapsed time was 65 hours and 38 minutes.
In 1968, I raced the Douglas B-26, which was a medium bomber, And it was the largest airplane ever raced at Reno.
And I came in fifth out of six airplanes, having passed a North American P-51, at which point I understand that there was three fighter pilots that committed suicide off the back of a grandstand.
You know, it's a gigantic jump from where we are right now to what we're going to talk about, and we need some kind of bridge.
For those who are just tuning in tonight, and inevitably there are many since there are millions, John, they're not going to know your connection to ufology.
In a nutshell, what is your connection to ufology?
I mean, obviously, you're, you know, a mainstream pilot, a test pilot, you're aviation all your life.
I was always kind of interested in it, but I didn't think it was real.
As a matter of fact, there's a letter that circulates on the internet that John Andrews, who is the vice president of Testers Corporation and who made the F-117 stealth fighter, he and I used to communicate a lot.
As a matter of fact, I'm the one that gave him the original information on the F-117.
And we were talking about UFOs one day, and I said, forget it, John, it's not real.
And that letter is somewhere on the internet.
But what happened, and I was interested in it, but it just didn't seem to be any evidence.
I walked into a friend's house in 19, I think it was 85, 84, 85, and there was a book called Missing Time by Bud Hopkins.
And that was, I read that book, and I knew that that was real.
I mean, it sent shivers up my spine, and that's what started everything.
I was flying out of New York at the time, commuting to New York, and the first thing I did was call up Bud Hopkins and go over to his place, and it was kind of funny because I came off a transatlantic flight at JFK, and I had made an appointment to go to his apartment.
I showed up with my flight bag and a huge suitcase, and he said, what's going on here?
How long do you think you're going to be staying?
And I said, you know, just a few minutes.
I said, I just came to the airport and I have no other place to put this.
But I ended up staying a few hours and having dinner with him and his family.
And actually going, he did an attempted regression.
He said, for this kind of interest that you have, there had to be something that, you know, you have to be involved somehow.
We didn't find anything then and never did.
I have my suspicions.
But that's what started it all.
And then, boy, I just, you know, it was so interesting, one lead after the other.
And once I, let's see, that was 85, 86, 87.
I had to have an operation on my foot.
And while I was recovering and not flying, I got in my truck and drove around southwestern United States, interviewing and talking to people, you know, who wouldn't talk on the phone.
I met the famous Ernie Edwards there at Kirkland Air Force Base.
Only once that I remembered much later, and that was in 1966.
I was making a long, leisurely afternoon descent into Los Angeles from back east.
And over Palm Springs, I had started my descent out of 41,000, and I guess I was like 35 or 34,000 descending.
And from, I'm going westbound from left to right, this object went in front of the airplane, and I just told the co-pilot, I said, look, that's an M2F2, the lifting body.
And only years later, I mean, that was 66, maybe 25 years later, did I realize how ridiculous that was to think that an M2F2 would be going across the major flight path into Los Angeles?
And when I think about it now, I said, what could I have possibly been thinking?
I actually got on the ground and called Hank Baird, who was chief of engineering flight test, and said, you know, made the casual remark, hey, I saw an M2F2 today.
So that was the one thing I saw, the only thing I saw until I was Lazar out in the desert and saw the saucer at Groom Lake.
You're going to be commenting on a lot of things tonight that I don't see how you could know unless you had, God, I don't know, John, a dialogue of some sort with extraterrestrials.
I mean, some of this stuff, how are you going to know it?
I mean, I suppose we'll get to that as we go through it, but it seems like you would have to have almost first-hand knowledge of the aliens, their intent, their motivations, what they're all about, to know some of this.
Okay, let me back up just a second and talk about the experiment.
When Lazar worked at the test site, he read documents that mankind was an experiment and that religions were created by the people who were making the experiment to give us a set of rules and regulations to live by, the Ten Commandments, the Koran, so we wouldn't hurt ourselves during this experiment.
Then I read that both Democritus and Anaxcorus taught that there was a time when the earth was without moon.
Aristotle also taught that.
He taught that Arcadian Greece, before being inhabited by the Hellenes, had a population of aborigines that occupied the land before there was a moon in the sky above the earth.
And for this reason, they were called the Prosellenes.
And then there was a time when there was two moons, and of course, now there's only one.
So that started me if there was in recorded history of man, there was a time when there was no moon there.
So then I read the book Ringmakers of Saturn, and Norman Berger started talking about the machines big enough to put the moon into orbit around the Earth.
But anyway, presumably then, our government is well aware through whatever means they had to get this information, extraterrestrial bodies, contact, all the rest of it, somehow our government is fully aware of what humans are.
Now, when Moore came out, Moore and Shandera came out with those Eisenhower briefing papers, I wanted to know whether it was real or not.
And I knew I had to get to Jimmy Doolittle, but he was retired living in Carmel, California, and I knew I couldn't do it.
But he and his wife, Jo, were very, very close to my grandmother and my grandfather and my mom and dad.
Now, my grandmother and grandfather had long since passed away.
We're talking about 1989, 1990.
But mom was still very much alive.
And I approached her and I said, look, I need some information.
I want to know if this is real.
And she said, okay, well, how can I help you?
I said, I need you to call Jimmy and just play it like this.
Say, hi, Jimmy.
This is Boyam.
You know, what's going on?
You know, I haven't talked to you in a while.
And then say, you know, Jimmy, John has gotten involved in something, and I'm not too excited about it, but I need to know one thing.
Is the Majestic 12 real?
Now, it took me about three or four months to get mom to do that, but she finally worked up her courage, and one morning called, and what he said was, yes, Moya, but I can't say anything more about it.
And what happened is Richard Hoagland led me to this because when I saw his tape about the Earth-Mars-Moon connection and talked about the Lunar Orbiter 384M photo showing the tower on the moon directly in the center of the moon, in the sinus medii, stretching six miles high on a tripod and a cube on top, a mile on each side, I wondered to myself, what could that be for?
What could be an antenna that's, well, you know, first of all, I thought it's got to be an antenna, and it's pointed directly at Earth.
Are they trying to record our TV programs?
And I thought, no, that's unlikely.
These people are millions of years ahead of us.
Probably what they're doing is sending, transmitting, and receiving souls.
When a person dies, they retract the soul into this machine.
When a person is born, they send the soul or transmit the soul.
And this has been going on for, you know, however long that thing's been there.
Now, that's why mariners are called lost souls, because if you die underwater, for some reason they can't retract the soul from underwater, and it's lost.
I mean, detractors and fans alike, his passion is absolutely evident.
And, you know, I have disagreements with him, too.
I've not seen a lot of the things that he has seen or tried to point out to me, to which he tells me I have two-dimensional vision, which is probably true.
So he's an incredible man.
And this means that these artifacts and the things he talked about and the things you're talking about now, they really are on the moon.
But that bubble is going to get burst pretty soon.
If we're keeping it secret, it's not going to be secret very much longer because other countries are getting ready to go to the moon, John.
These guys, the Apollo astronauts I'm talking specifically about, these guys went to the moon, they saw all that stuff, and then they were told by NASA under threat of receipt of pension and everything else, that they better not talk about it.
And they, for the most part, all kept their mouths shut for, you know, how long has it been, 35 years?
And if you can just imagine yourself seeing something so astounding as all these structures on the moon and then being told you can't talk about it.
Hey, you know yourself, John, that doing four hours on a radio program like this, you said so before the show, you're a little nervous.
Everybody's nervous.
But, you know, after a while, that goes away.
And I interviewed Dr. Mitchell, actually, many times, Edgar Mitchell.
And the damnedest thing, doggonest thing, John, you know, a couple of hours, we were talking, I think Hoagland was there, as a matter of fact, and Hoagland started talking about all this stuff that was on the moon.
And Edgar Mitchell, and then Hoagland said something like, I want you to tell me, I mean, being on the moon is an emotional, lifetime, incredible experience.
Describe your emotions and your thoughts when you were walking on the moon.
And there was a long pause.
And Dr. Mitchell came back and he said, you know, it's really strange.
And now I'm paraphrasing, but I'm very close.
It's really strange.
I should remember everything in such stark detail.
But my memory of what I felt and what I was seeing, it's all kind of foggy.
And then there were the other astronauts who had endless trouble, marital troubles, all kinds of different, I mean, obvious psychological big-time stress of some kind.
And you remember a year and a half ago at the Reno Air Races, an astronaut decked a Japanese reporter that came up and said, hey, you guys didn't go to the moon.
Okay, the reason he did, in my opinion, is the fact that it's not that they didn't go to the moon.
It's that they did go to the moon and what they found there.
And it was so troubling now to be accused that they didn't go when they did go, and now they've been keeping a secret for all these years of what there was up there.
A lot of questions from the audience, and here's kind of an interesting one from Morgan in Clearwater, Florida.
Ask John if a lot of ghosts from Earth are here by their choice as souls because they know not to go to the light after they die, or should I go to the light?
Please ask him.
Same old question, John.
If there is a receiver and transmitter, then perhaps the light that people see and that trip they begin to take is actually to the moon.
Part of it, you know, if you were the government and you knew the secret and you knew the experiment, and part of the experiment is not knowing that it's an experiment.
That's why this X conference that's coming up is so ridiculous.
There's 33, you know, and they're going to influence Congress and Senate.
It's not going to happen for the simple fact that they're talking to people who have nothing to do with the cover-up.
You take a senator or a congressman, and even if they got interested, let's say that they were high-level and had a lot of seniority, do you think they're going to risk any of their seniority to bring something like UFO to the forefront?
Do you think that they're going to hold hearings?
Of course not.
And even if they did, somebody would approach them and say, let's say you were a senator, Art, and he comes and says, Art, look, you know, this UFO thing, I think that, you know, it needs to be investigated.
But the guy I work for and the guy who gives you your clearance as a senator so that you can learn all this secret stuff that you know about, he thinks it's all wacko.
So, you know, we have to appease him.
Now, you know, personally, I think, you know, there should be an investigation, but at this point in your career, I don't think you can afford to irritate my boss because you've got your clearance coming.
That's the kind of thing that would happen if anybody got any close to doing an investigation on the UFO cover-up.
And I know Steve Bassett has very good intentions, but there is no way that anything is going to happen.
But again, like Richard, who I don't always agree with, Dr. Greer, for example, his intentions are awfully good.
Awfully good.
But I honestly have concerns that he'll ever get anywhere with it, I guess, just the same way you do.
Do you think that if, and by the way, Dr. Greer was one of the ones I played the Lear test for.
Oh.
And, you know, he actually, very quickly after it, if I recall correctly, said, well, when I said, if all of that was true, Doctor, would you still be for disclosure?
Of course not.
But all of that's not true.
You know, roughly what he said.
Back to the light for a moment.
We never answered poor Morgan's question here.
This is a tough one, Morgan.
Now we're asking John Lear's opinion about whether to go to the light or not.
So you wouldn't, I mean, even with all the knowledge that you have, I assume that you are from time to time invited to these kinds of conferences, aren't you?
You sort of, there was a point where you threw your hands up with all of this, and you more or less said, well, I've learned all there is to learn about the whole ET question and UFOs, and I'm done.
It was just I could see it was, you know, there was no point in going to a conference because these people are just, you know, preaching to each other.
And when I first got into this, I could pull everybody up to where I was because I didn't know that much.
And I had all the documents and said, you know, this is what so-and-so wrote.
This is what, here's a copy of the documents.
Here's the receipt for it.
And I can bring them up to that level.
But I kept going, you know, getting more information.
And what is it they used to say that leer leaps in logic was what they used to accuse me of.
And, you know, it just, they were leaps in logic, but they turned out to be true.
So, you know, I was getting further ahead of everybody with the information.
And it was too hard to sit down with somebody and bring them up to speed.
Yeah, so let's come back to this machine on the moon again.
It's pretty interesting.
And you believe now that it accounts for some things on Earth.
In other words, you already said the machine wasn't perfect.
And for example, Mariners Lost at Sea, that machine can't retrieve that soul because it's beneath a very great deal of water, which it apparently cannot penetrate.
But what's going on with this whole question of homosexuality, what we call the gay question, is apparently, either by design or the machine is breaking down, what's going on is predominantly male souls are being transmitted to females and predominantly female souls are being transmitted to males.
Now, whether that's by design or it's breaking down or whatever, but that's what's causing this increase, you know, a remarkable increase in homosexuality.
Well, I think it's all part of the rules and regulations, so we won't hurt ourselves.
And somebody on the Fantastic Forum mentioned that, well, it certainly isn't doing a very good job, and I have to agree with that, but apparently that was the intent.
The area I disagree is a couple of weeks ago he was on some program, and I heard something about he was discussing the problems we were having with Spirit Rover, and he mentioned that there may be a group that could hijack NASA's antenna and send spurious signals to Mars.
That is absolute BS.
NASA is doing those spurious signals.
They're the ones that are creating the problems.
Those signals first go to Canberra, then I think they go to PineGap, and then I thought I saw a diagram where they went into Northern California and then back down to JPL.
But whatever the scenario, those signals and photographs and everything are tampered with and made just like they want before they get to JPL.
Now, the problem with Richard is he knows those guys and what a great team they are.
And they are.
They have no idea that those signals are being tampered before they get to JPL.
They say, you know, if any of the stuff that Hoagland talks about or others wish were there, was really there, that we would go, but Lurk, we'd release the photographs and we'd get funding we never dreamed about for a manned mission to Mars.
The whole world would want to investigate the possibility of a civilization or life, intelligent life, ever having been on Mars.
It would be the best thing that ever happened to NASA.
But what they really do is they seek out government disinformation artists by, first of all, they have to have a PhD and be extremely knowledgeable on many subjects.
Then they have to be extremely well-spoken.
Then they have to exude confidence and congeniality.
And when they mix with the public, they do exactly what you just said.
Oh, and Fagan used to do the same thing.
Oh, gosh, wouldn't it be just, it would be great if we could just meet an alien.
But, you know, the facts are it's too far away and they aren't here.
You know, when considering the manner of our creation and maintenance, this isn't any crazier than listening to a lot of other renditions of the way it happened.
Not really.
Any of them you listen to Are fantastic, beyond belief, hard to grasp, hard to consider, and rejected by many.
I understand that.
That we are, that mankind is an experiment.
That there's something on the moon that literally controls, transmits, transports our souls, and that we, our flesh, it's just the container, that's all.
He's certainly got information confirming what these documents say from very high places.
For example, General Doolittle.
But we're off in some wild country here.
We were talking about NASA and what they say.
And certainly it is a good story.
I mean, it does seem to me, John, as though, gosh, if they had something like that, they'd have all the money they needed to go investigate and all the rest of it.
But you're suggesting that at a higher level, they already know and have known for a long time what's there and what it means to humanity.
I mean, they know Venus is a normal planet-like Earth.
It doesn't have all that glowing, hot, molten lava and 90 bars of pressure.
And it's ridiculous.
They know everything that's on the moon.
They know Mars, for all I know.
And I certainly at one time did think that we already had some kind of a base on Mars.
And the reason I thought that is I was going to get to talk to somebody who went there.
Now, when you go either to the moon or these supposed bases we have on the moon or Mars, it's a one-way trip.
You cannot come back because they don't want any chance of anybody finding out about it.
And for some reason, this guy had come back, and I was going to get a chance to talk to him.
He lived in, I think, south of San Francisco somewhere.
And we got right down to where I was going to get to meet this guy, and then all of a sudden, you know, called the number, and although it was the same number, you know, we had been using, now it changed.
There was a family using that number, and they said they had had it for 15 years, and so on and so on.
But they know all that stuff.
They know, for instance, the spaceships in the rings of Saturn.
Okay, now the other day, Yankee O-Yo posted a story with this message in his continuing assault on Richard Hoagland.
He says to the Fantastic Forum, hey, you guys, did you hear that Richard Hoagland thinks there's a UFO ticking and purring in the rings of Saturn?
So I wrote back that if Richard Hoagland said this, then it was confirmed by Norm Bergen in his book, The Ringmakers of Saturn, published in 1986.
Now, before I tell you what Bergman said, let me read you a small portion of his bona fides.
This is Norm Bergman.
BSME Cornell, LLB LaSalle, Postgraduate Studies, Stanford, U.S. Navy, 44-46.
Thermodynamists with Douglas Aircraft.
Aero Research Scientists with NACA Ames Laboratories.
Supervisor Flight Test Manager, Flight Test Analysis Manager, Test Plans Manager, Reentrance, Test Operations Staff Scientist, Satellite Systems, Lockheed Missiles, and Space Company.
It goes on and on and on.
So here's what Norm Bergman had to say in the preface of his book about the UFO that is ticking and purring in the rings of Saturn.
And I quote, presented herein are pictures of an immensely large, enormously powerful, extraterrestrial space vehicle located in the vicinity of Saturn and its moons.
These photographic revelations are reinforced by and are consistent with scientific data extending over centuries as far back as Galileo.
The pictures have been obtained by the author using simple, repeatable enhancement techniques applied to publicly available NASA photos from Voyager 1 and 2 flybys of Saturn.
Having been obtained by pre-scheduled flight programming, Voyager photographs are scientifically unique in that they are strictly impersonal.
End of quote.
Now the size of the largest of the vehicles is shown in plate 27, page 50, as 31,496 miles in length and 2,422 miles in diameter.
Nowhere in the book is it said that the object is ticking or purring.
Now we're talking about a fairly large spacecraft here.
Look at how ridiculous is it, you know, that Spirit Rover didn't go to Sidonia or Tiffonia or the monument.
Now, I know that the standard answer is, well, we've got four more important things to look at than, you know, alleged cities.
But here at Tiffonia, in the Tithonia Chasma, on the west side of the Valley Marineris, you can go to Project Red Star on the web, projectredstar.com, and see the city yourself.
And not only that, you can go to Mallon Space Science Systems on the website.
He's the guy that is in charge of all the pictures coming from Mars and go to this one Mars picture, and I'll give the address of it.
You can pull it down yourself, and you can put it in Photoshop 7, and you can magnify it and see the city yourself.
I have seen a couple of photographs that Richard showed me that made me gasp, that showed, without question, in my mind, underground cities.
Now, even Richard, to some degree, questions the authenticity of the photograph, or at least, you know, he's not certain.
But when I saw that, I did gasp, and I did say, oh, my God, that was a city.
That was a city.
There's no question about it.
If that photograph is authentic, it's a city.
I saw that with my own eyes.
So then all this is a ruse, and it's just a sort of a minimal effort, and we're not going to put man back up, or will the day come when we will be admitted to some further next step?
Yeah, I was going to tell you that story that I was back in 1990 visiting my daughter and her husband, and it was Armed Forces Day, and we were headed out to the Air Force Base.
And we were driving down the street, and we went right by the Naval Observatory, you know, where the vice president lives.
Sure.
And it said open house.
So I swerved in there.
I said, hey, this is going to be interesting.
Let's go in here.
So we went in there and parked.
And all the scientists were dressed up as famous figures in astronomy history.
There was Galileo and Giordano Brumo.
And they all had this little shtick, this little thing where they'd recite a little bit of history.
So I'm talking to this one scientist, and I said, well, listen, how fast, you know, is there a speed to gravity?
And he says, well, we think it's, you know, about the speed of light.
And I said, well, isn't it true that gravity is instantaneous between all planets?
And actually, there's two gravities, gravity A and gravity B?
And this guy had a Pepsi can in his hand, and he squeezed it so hard he drew blood.
And I had my daughter and her husband watching this.
So we walked around with some of the exhibits, and then the head of the Naval Observatory was out there getting pictures taken with everybody, and, you know, their family would take a picture.
Yeah, they have a hard time with it, and they also have a hard time that it's instantaneous.
But the story I told you many years ago, that one's the time that Bob came back from S4, and he told me about a gigantic weapon that we had, a weapon that was so powerful that it could destroy a continent half the size of South America.
And he said that a message was sent to the owners of the grays, and we'd established they lived more than 1,000 light years away, the people who made the grays.
The message was sent to them, either you help us get rid of the grays or nobody's going to have Earth, meaning we'd blow ourselves up.
And I said, well, now, what good is that going to do?
Because, you know, if they're over 1,000 light years away, it's going to be 2,000 light years before we get an answer.
And he said, no, no, they use a gravity phone.
Gravity is instantaneous.
And if you could hook up a phone to it, you can call hundreds of light years away instantaneously.
Yeah, like 400 years ago when we thought the Earth was flat and they were trying to convince the population that was round, and they'd say it can't be round.
You know, John, it was either after I had you on last, I think it was, or perhaps Bob's last appearance, but there was a scientific article that they had just for some incredible short instant actually synthesized element 115.
And I went, and so did a lot of the audience out there because I got a lot of emails.
Yeah, and Bob made a comment, I think, to Linda Moulton Howe that he would like to know more about it.
And I sent him as much information as I have about it.
And he hasn't commented, but he said he would like to know the exact makeup because apparently the 115 that they synthesized was unstable.
And the 115 that he and I held in our hands was certainly stable.
It was, I think it was 238 grams in the arrowhead shape.
And I don't know that I told you this.
I visited Bob a few months ago in Albuquerque, and we're out working in his garage, and the half-scale gravity amplifier that Joe Van Anetti had built was sitting there in disarray.
And Bob said, you want this?
I said, are you kidding?
I've wanted that thing for 15 years.
He said, here.
And I got the half-scale gravity amplifier.
And it comes with a base and the little half-sphere.
And inside is the little holder for the 115 and the little tube that pumps the 115 into the pumps the protons into the 115.
Obviously, it doesn't work, but it's really neat to have, and it's really neat.
He gave it to me, and I got it there.
I'm looking at it right now across my desk.
It's in a glass cabinet, and behind it is the original drawing that Bob made for me when he came back and showed me how the saucers worked, how the 115, how they pumped the protons into the 115, pumped it up to 116.
It instantaneously decayed, drew off the antimatter, which was mixed with matter in a thermionic generator, creating heat, which they turned into used for voltage to power the craft, and the gravity A wave, which they used to travel.
And the original drawing is framed behind that little replica amplifier.
Is any topic at all more interesting than who we are, how we got to be here, what we're all about?
I don't know what it is, and this embraces all of that.
My guest is John Lear, son of Bill Lear, yep, Lear, Jet type thing.
And he sure does have a lot to say about all of that, how we got here, who we are, how we're being manipulated.
And a moment ago, I hope you took the opportunity during the break to think about the instantaneous nature of gravity.
The End Well, anyway, if we get Element 115 and stabilize it, John, then presumably we'd be on our way toward the kind of travel that you were talking about a little while ago, wouldn't we?
But even if we had it and we could stabilize it, then we'd have to make a container to contain the matter-antimatter reaction from which they draw the heat and turn it into positive, turn into voltage.
And that would match up with a story we heard that some witness saw somebody fitting that exact type description was seen at Pine Gap in a hangar there.
So, anyway, apparently the military gets there after about five hours, herds them all into a corner of the field, you know, gives them the briefing.
You know, you tell anybody, we won't kill you, we'll kill your wife, your kids, your dog, your parents, everybody.
So, that makes an impression because usually people don't care.
Okay, kill me, go ahead, kill me.
But when they threaten, oh, no, we're not going to kill you, we're going to kill everybody else.
So they watched him take this thing apart.
He said, I said, well, how'd they do it?
He said they borrowed some of our, he had a name for it.
It might have been welding rod or something to make a long, maybe 12-foot long kind of a poker.
And he said they put it into the hole in the window, and they knew exactly where to push.
And when they did, he said, John, that thing opened up just like the craft in the day the earth stood still.
The bottom came out, and a pie section raised.
He said they went in, they took the bodies out, and he said then we watched him disassemble this thing, and he said it disassembled in pie sections, and apparently they knew exactly how to do it.
With regard to the MJ12 documents, they were, in fact, there were all kinds of references, actually, from the government indicating that there really was something to those documents.
I got a call from somebody recently who made a couple of notations to me that showed that there really had been a full investigative, you know, that it really had gone through our government, the whole mess had.
And this is a very sensible person who believes they're absolutely real as well.
Would it be your view that these abductions are just a way of monitoring the progress or lack of it or something or another with regard to the overall experiment?
And we go down maybe 10, 15 miles, and we went into a rancher.
And we asked him if he knows anything about the dead cows.
He said, yeah, they died of whatever it was.
I forgot.
But Linda went.
So anyway, we go down and see Clifford Stone.
She goes back home.
I go back home.
And she called later, and she said, you know, I checked with a veterinarian, and he said there's no possible way it could have been that disease because he told me, the vet told me, that there would have been a cordon around that place of 10 miles if that had been so.
Now, let me make it clear that there were no typical animal mutilation type deals like eyeballs carved out or, you know.
Well, that's a continuing gigantic mystery, as would be the crop circles.
Obviously, some are hoaxed, and absolutely obviously, many are not.
Any thoughts on crop circles?
I range from testing space based lasers and that sort of thing to aliens myself.
And my thinking, and I suppose most people who think about this do, are just simply an anomaly of nature or some kind of message from the Earth itself.
I don't even have a good theory, but all I remember about the crop circles is when Doug and Dave tried to say that they were responsible, and it was just so irritating to see a story picked up by the press and valleyhood as, yeah, yeah, they admitted it, which didn't apply to any other crop circles around the world.
Or if they had, they certainly made good time getting from country to country.
Well, you know, when you talk about the press, I mean, that's a good subject all by itself, too, John.
I have never really had anybody approach me who said, you know, you do one more show like the one you just did, whatever it was, and you or someone you know is toast.
I've never been, no one's ever tried to affect me in that way.
And so I've always wondered, everybody thinks there's a big conspiracy with regard to the press.
I kind of feel like this song, Roman Disagree and Sweet Dreams, are made of this.
Who am I to disagree?
Really?
Who am I to disagree?
That we're an experiment?
That the moon was towed there for us, that on the moon there's a machine that trades or transmits and receives souls?
Who am I to disagree?
There's no absolute proof, but there, you know, there's some pretty strong indications that something's on the moon that somebody doesn't really want to talk about.
Back when I was five, six, seven years old, I always had a feeling that these so-called aliens had something directly to do with the beings that people experience when they have a near-death experience or, you know, life after death.
Because, you know, people basically explain the same type of beings.
They either describe graves or beings of light.
And even military personnel have described seeing beings of light, you know, along with graves.
And I was taken to heart what you said about what's going on on the side of the moon.
I think they do have something to do with the recycling of our souls.
I think that on a level that we cannot comprehend with the human mind.
And I think that our government knows that there's something about this, but they don't want to admit it because they don't want to give up the control that they have over people.
He's saying that, yes, they control our souls, in fact, and that our government, or some portion of it, understands this, and they don't want us to know that because that would yield or it would eclipse their control over us.
No, John, you know, if somebody were to come on the air and tell a story about tablets magically being burned in stone, about oceans being parted as the hands were raised into the air, about the earth being created in six days and resting on days.
You know, if these stories were told, they wouldn't sound any wilder, any more over the top than what you've been telling us about what could be our creation.
Just for the record, I've probably heard more programs on Coast to Coast than any of your listeners for whatever that's worth.
Now, that gives you my background.
John, there is a video that has been published in War Run in Canada and then Japan, which I have copies of, called The Dark Side of the Moon.
Now, it's an incredible video, which shows Kissinger, Donald Rumsfeld, who was Secretary of Defense some 30 years ago, whatever, Hitam NASA, on and on, plotting this concept of making the movie with Stanley Kubrick and all that.
And it proves, without doubt, it was fabricated in case it didn't pull off.
Now, I know this sounds fantastic, but I've got the video.
They're publishing it elsewhere.
I would love to send it to you for your observation and look it over.
Now, Norrie seems to be resistant to look at it.
He's been the last one to see it.
I can probably see why, because he thinks we went.
Now, do you know the video I'm talking about today?
Okay, John, there is a whole covey of people, I mean, quite a large number of people, actually, who don't think that we ever went to the moon.
And they will cite a sort of a long litany and list of evidence, you know, that, well, you know, the spacesuit could not have managed to fit through this portal or, you know, the flag didn't wave right or any one of zillions of things.
They'll say they would have died in the radiation belt, the Van Allen radiation belt.
All kinds of things they say, trying to say that we did not go to the moon.
Yes, because what happened is when they sent the first ships there, you know, they couldn't get it right.
They either missed it or they crashed in the moon.
And the reason was because they didn't realize the true gravity of the moon.
Everybody accepts that it's one-sixth that of Earth, and it's not, it's 64%.
And when they got that right, then they started getting everything the rest right.
But the thing is, they couldn't tell that to the public.
The fact that it has 64% instead of 1 sixth is the reason when you saw pictures of the astronauts jumping, they could at best do a foot, maybe 18 inches.
And then when they went on walks, they were just simply tired lugging that equipment because essentially more than half the gravity of Earth.
And there is an atmosphere on the Moon.
It's equal to about 18,000 feet on Earth.
As a matter of fact, they could have taken off their helmets and breathed for a little while.
through very large telescopes I mean I've never seen anything depicting what seemed to be even anything remotely you know foggy or There's clouds on the moon.
You know, what I refer you to and what my pavet photograph is and what I have hanging behind me in a form of, I think it's a format of, let's see, must be more than 16 by 20.
It's about 2 feet by 2 feet.
But I purchased Lunar Orbiter 2, 162H, which was a photo of Copernicus.
It's taken an oblique angle.
And you're looking directly at the inside of the craters of Copernicus.
And it is so neat, because it was the first photo that I got that essentially was unretouched for this reason.
When NASA started retouching photos in 1967 to eliminate all the offending material, what they do is they take a picture of that, and then that would be the photo that they'd hand out to the public.
A few escaped attention, but what didn't escape attention was NASA in 1967 never realized or couldn't conceive that in 1995 and the 2000 that we would have computers that could take a negative or an actual photograph and digitize it and enlarge it to something they had no idea.
So these days we can take negatives that they thought were safe of offending material and enlarge it and see all kinds of wonderful things.
Now on the side of this photo, Lunar Orbiter 2162H, there are a number of silos which obviously contain vapor.
And in some of them the vapor is going up, in some of them the vapor is going down.
But he says, I, Bob, and this is August 5th, 1998, about two years later, I, Bob Lazar, in return for not having to honor my commitment to kill myself, if any of John's moon stuff was true, do freely admit that the object in the crater Copernicus on the moon, saved as Apple Crate, is a box which I don't know what is doing there.
He's not going to believe something unless it's hands-on.
And that's why, last time you interview him, you know, he said, you know, I think Chile Lear is crazy, but unfortunately, some of his stuff is crazy enough to be true.
Well, when you ask him about aliens, he'll say, never saw one.
When you ask him about anything alien-related, sorry, don't know anything about it.
Never saw it.
Can't tell you anything about it.
Of course, he did see all those alien craft up at Area 51, but anything he didn't see with his own eyes or touch, he wouldn't have a thing to do with it.
You know, I'd love to have copies of those.
Hold on, we're at the top of the hour.
My guest is John Lear.
unidentified
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It is, and we are discussing the almost unimaginable, aren't we?
That it might not be as we all thought, that it might be something else entirely, that we, our souls, might be something other than what we have thought them to be.
At least you have to hold it out, certainly, as a possibility.
And when you look at the U.S. space program, you have to wonder about a lot of things.
I'm putting you together with John Lear, coming up next.
You know, there's an awful lot of paranormal stuff that really does go on that seem to involve people who were once living here on Earth and may have not been transmitted up as scheduled or something or another, John.
If somebody dies an unscheduled, so to speak, death that hasn't been scheduled and they can't make the pickup, that little bundle of energy goes around as a ghost and is trapped forever because I don't think there's any other way to bring them up.
Now, in my opinion, when there's a big disaster in order to cover picking up the souls because of something that wasn't planned or whatever, they have apparently giant soul collectors come down.
Now, right after 9-11, I know whether you saw it, but there was a series of three photos taken by Gamma News Service, and it might still be on the internet.
And you could see over the towers a huge, I think it was rectangular-shaped object.
And it's three photos, and it's in a different place.
And I believe that those were soul collectors in order to pick up the souls that would have been lost if that hadn't been in place.
If the moon was trapped by Sacred, if it was just passing by and went into, you know, got trapped by the Earth's gravity, it would be more of an elliptical orbit.
It's going to be hard for you because I want you to tell me perhaps what I saw late at night in the sky.
And actually, it's more or less what I did not see.
This is a phenomenon to me because I always go out about 10 or 11 and walk the dog.
And it's most shocking because when I looked up, I saw nothing, but I could see the air in the form of a V moving from north to south.
But there was nothing there visible for me to see, except the only way I can describe it is if you have a boat that is going through water very slowly, you can see the water in the form of a V that slips back behind the boat.
But, you know, there's so many different kinds of craft.
The one that's been most intriguing is the JAL incident of the Japan Airlines 747 doing the over-the-pole flight and coming down into Anchorage and doing the circle at Fairbanks.
And the drawing, I have the full report that somebody did on it, and the drawing the captain made of this ship, it was three times, at least three times the size of a battleship.
And it looked like a giant walnut.
And it was so immense, so detailed, the whole crew drew their concept of it.
Yeah, as I've said many times, I estimate there must be at least 80 different species, and I base that on the different types of aliens that the people have seen, the different types of craft.
Do you think that, I mean, we are getting more sophisticated weapons all the time, John.
There's even some evidence that, you know, I'm sure you've seen the STS-50 stuff.
I'm sure you've seen some of the other STS video in which it appears as though somebody is shooting at a UFO and it makes impossible turns avoiding this thing that's coming at it.
Yeah, there is a theory, I think, that as you go through the table of elements, if you were to keep going, you'd go through a group of unstable elements, and then they would begin to get stable again.
Do you think that if we were to acquire the technological capability to manipulate gravity, John, and then we were to begin to travel outside our neighborhood, so to speak, that we would be stopped?
I think we have some form of gravity manipulation now.
I mean, we couldn't not have.
We've been working on it so long.
There is some form of it.
But I'm not sure whether I'm positive it's not to the extent where we're going to go visit any other solar systems.
We might be able to cruise around the moon and maybe a trip to Mars here and there, but certainly not the type of thing that Bob looked at at the testite.
But even if just part of this is true, John, about the ability, for example, to manipulate gravity, that would lead to another power source that the world astoundingly badly needs.
And that's something else Steve Greer talks about.
And that part of what Steve Greer is after, I'm really interested in.
He talks about the drive of these craft that you're also talking about, and that that would mean an energy source for a world that's about to run out of energy.
Perhaps we're not going to run out of energy in the immediate, but there is sort of an end to this fossil fuel thing, at least at a price that we can all afford.
So there's going to have to be something that comes around the bend, or predictably there are going to be wars, terrible wars over energy and food and all the things that we'll run out of.
And you are right that about, what is it, every 25,000 years or whatever the cycle is, there is something that comes along that does appear to do that.
Well, you know, what yeah, it happens, it happens.
I'm ready to go back to the machine and the moon, and I'm sure they'll gather up everybody and put them back in the cube on the moon while everything happens.
And then, you know, the cycle starts again and they send us all back for whatever, you know, the next experiment is.
Well, certainly that's been an old question that's been asked for many hundreds and thousands of years.
Why live?
I can't answer that except, you know, I just enjoy life.
I love going up to the mine.
I love riding around in the countryside.
In two weeks, the hills of Gold Butte are going to explode with color and flowers, and it's just going to be just a wonderful time of the year, which I look forward to.
And one is about the thought of the instantaneous gravity.
And I've done some studying my own, and I chose chemistry as my major because I think that chemistry over physics is just a personal belief that chemistry over physics is going to wind up being the determining science, the one that we will come to understand and how it affects our world and understand it a little better than physics.
But instantaneously, I have a feeling, I keep going back to calculus and how when even as humans we try to understand an integral, you take an integral of something and you still, you get the end of the derivative and you still have to have a constant on the end.
And the constant is usually not solved for.
And we just drop it off because you still have infinitesimally small rectangles underneath the function curve that you can never get the exact value.
And that's, I keep going back to that and thinking that the instantaneous gravity includes that constant.
But that's just my thought about that.
You got me thinking about it, so I wanted to share it.
Yes, I do believe in disclosure even after hearing that because I think what you were saying about people, religious people pertaining to that, I think people who have strong religious beliefs are going to believe what they believe no matter what they hear from the government.
And my question for Mr. Lear is, if you believe so strongly what you believe, and as Art said, it is a belief system, and you think that's really what's happening, and you don't think you're against disclosure, then why go on the radio and even talk about it?
Why tell people about it at all if there's nothing we can do about it and if you don't believe in disclosure?
I am, and I'm saying heretically, perhaps, that, you know, it's as logical and maybe in modern times more logical or more easily accepted than perhaps the Standard story.
I don't know.
unidentified
Yeah, well, I've got a question, and that is simply, John, what do you suspect about Venus that's contrary to what we've been told?
As I mentioned last time, I think it's a planet just like Earth.
There's beings probably very similar to us, and we're just not supposed to know about it.
There were several Navy research projects that went on in the late 50s that said that there was water vapor on the planet, and it looked like it could support life, and those were quickly shut up.
And then the cover-up went into place that it was molten lava, and it had 90 bars of pressure.
And they went to the point of going too far, explaining there was nothing on Venus.
I mean, you can just see some guy said, now, I want you to come up with a program that nobody is ever going to think that there is life on Venus.
All right, well, then you know the Sitchin story, right?
In other words, you know that he believes that we were once gold miners, that we were put on earth to do the physical drudgery labor of mining gold, and that we were actually designed for that purpose.
Anyways, I had some questions about your saying there were ships that collected souls, maybe, or something that collected souls and took them to the moon.
What about things that sow the souls?
At what point do the souls come into the vessel of the human?