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Nov. 16, 2003 - Art Bell

02:51:09

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Electronic Violations - Roger Tolces

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	♪♪♪ From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid
	you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the world of time zones.
	There are so many, and we cover all of them, actually, one way or another with this crazy program called Coast to Coast AM.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is the Weekend Edition.
	In the next hour, we're going to be treated to, well, have you ever been bugged?
	Have you ever bugged anybody?
	I have.
	Now, for obvious reasons, I'm not going to give you the details of what I did, but suffice it to say that somebody who did something really awful to me found out about my electronic talents.
	Actually, he didn't find out about my electronic talents, but I used information gathered about this person electronically to get him back, and I really, really got him.
	Tonight's guest is an expert on trying to find people like me.
	I did this a lot of years ago, and if you heard the whole story, which I can't tell you, you would understand why I was provoked to do what I did.
	But you would be shocked at how much electronic information can mean to you.
	If you want to get somebody, If you want to get something, if you want to get something done, if you want a corporate secret, if you... I don't know, any one of a million different motivations.
	If you want information about somebody, you can get it.
	There's a million different ways, and tonight's guest is going to talk about them.
	So, it may well be... I mean, think about it for a moment.
	Would there be anybody with a motivation to have information about you?
	Anybody you know have a motivation to want information about you?
	Anyway, we're going to do open lines shortly in this hour.
	We don't do enough of those.
	I'm going to plan, I don't know, maybe alternate Sundays or something, and we'll just do open lines.
	So I'm trying to figure that part out now.
	George does them as a sort of a Friday night ritual, as we always have on Coast.
	So I don't kind of want to back that up by doing them again on Saturday, but maybe on a Sunday.
	News.
	It's never good.
	Troops flooded a Baghdad neighborhood in a new U.S.
	military offensive against guerrilla Sunday as an audio tape purportedly made by Saddam Hussein urged Iraqis to escalate their fight against us.
	The U.S.
	military moves in Baghdad and elsewhere in Iraq came as the army tried to determine why two of its Black Hawk helicopters crashed in the northern city of Mosul killing 17 of ours in the worst single loss of American life since the war began and as you know I thought this was a horrid idea before we did it but we are there now and so the question is not so much recrimination about why we did what we did but what we do now and I'm still thinking about that what about you
	What do you think is the right tactic for us to take in Iraq?
	Should we simply seek out the enemy and destroy him wherever we find him?
	Yeah.
	But will the enemy keep coming at a rate that will keep us in American dead bodies to our hips?
	They'll try.
	So the million dollar question, actually it's a multi-billion dollar question, is how to get them before they get us because we're there now and uh... we need to figure a way out of this other than the way it ended in vietnam in stark contrast to his hollywood image and the usual inauguration festivities uh... governor schwarzenegger now governor schwarzenegger a plan to take office monday well monday he will be uh... with a quick and very low-key ceremony and then he's going to go right to work
	And he should.
	California has lots of trouble.
	Money trouble.
	All kinds of troubles in California.
	So, good luck, Arnold.
	You must clean the house in California.
	A sparse... This is a sad story.
	It's the other one I picked out from the World News.
	A sparse crowd Thinned out across a 70,000 seat stadium at a rally on Sunday that was intended as a thank you for all those men and women who battled the largest wildfire in modern California history.
	The low turnout at Qualcomm Stadium was not lost on those who came to thank the roughly 500 firefighters and law enforcement people who strode onto the playing field to cheers, music, and fireworks.
	A very small crowd to thank them.
	After what went on, speaking of what went on, the sun, our sun, is demanding everyone's attention three weeks into perhaps the most dramatic and unexpected chain of eruptions ever observed venting from its seething, bubbling surface.
	There have been as many as 11 salvos, 11 since October 19th, and the fireworks could reach a new crescendo by Thanksgiving.
	The nation's, by the way, busiest holiday for air travel.
	Just one of the things that might be disrupted.
	If we get a really serious flare, and you're flying in a jet at high altitude, depending on the severity of the eruption on the sun, you could collect instantly, or during that flight, anywhere between 1 and 100, the equivalent of between 1 and 100 chest x-rays!
	That's right!
	That much radiation should you be jet-borne.
	Anyway, it sounds incredible, but something like that, kind of like a blizzard in July, has just happened to our sun.
	So they're beginning to, that's quoted by David Hathaway, solar physicist at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center.
	Now, there you are.
	The experts are looking at what happened, and what happened was anywhere between, some say, an X-28 flare, which was, of course, above the measurable scale, and some guess as high as X-40.
	They actually don't know.
	And these big sunspots, 486, 484, they're all just about to come back to us, ladies and gentlemen, and they're still spitting fire.
	Scientists can look on the other side of the sun, in a way, and what they can see going on over there are very large explosions.
	These are coming from the sunspots that we all saw fade into the, literally into the sunset, I guess, right?
	And move around the far side of the sun while they continue to survive and spit fire.
	And now they're coming around the horn again.
	Scientists who have studied solar peaks, and I have looked at solar peaks all of my amateur radio career very closely, as you know, have never, ever seen anything like this happen before.
	Is the Sun dying?
	No.
	Is it about to go supernova on us or something horrible like that?
	Probably not.
	However, what the Sun is going to do next, nobody knows.
	Nobody has any idea what it's going to do.
	You know that they have records, but frankly man hasn't been around that long keeping records of the Sun.
	I suppose in the beginning people worshipped it and all the rest of that, but we didn't keep records.
	But from the time we've kept records, the biggest explosion that ever occurred just happened.
	And the very same spot that emitted that explosion and its brethren are now about to come around the other side of the sun and point their fiery tooth of teeth at us!
	Previously, the most intensive flares ever were a pair of what they classified as X-20s.
	But now, should they launch new satellites, they would have to recalibrate scale.
	So, what's coming next for all of us is anybody's guess, but the scientists are, well, they're puzzled at what our sun is doing right now, and they frankly don't know what's coming next.
	Fortunately, I do, and we'll be right back.
	I think I've talked to you a little bit about our weather changing, right?
	This is from Reuters.
	Mother Nature will be volatile this winter, and the U.S.
	energy suppliers ought to brace for dramatic shifts in demand for heating fuel from month to month, even week to week, said Forecasters Friday.
	Four out of six weather watchers surveyed by Reuters, which is where this story came from, predict that this winter is going to be A little warmer than last year, but will be punctuated by wild swings in temperature because of the absence of any strong El Nino or La Nina or whatever.
	El Nino is an abnormal warming of the waters in the equatorial Pacific.
	It usually leads to a mild winter here in the U.S.
	Last severe El Nino occurred in the winter of 97-98, causing Droughts in Australia and Indonesia and flooding Ecuador and Peru.
	El Niño, of course, the exact opposite.
	It often follows El Niño, which means Christ Child in Spanish, and got its name from a South American fisherman who first noticed its appearance at Christmas time.
	Now, so what they're saying is they're preparing us for wild changes in temperature all winter long.
	And that's because the climate in general is changing.
	Another Reuters story.
	Longer Arctic summers and thinning sea ice up there are now beginning to threaten the habitats of polar bears and the livelihood of native people.
	Arctic ice, get this folks, has lost as much as 40% of its thickness in the last 50 years.
	of its thickness in the last 50 years. 40% of its thickness is gone in 50 years.
	So, um, they see a direct link between lengthening summers, the period of time up there that it is summer and warm, relatively, and thinning ice, more evidence of climate change.
	And of course this one, from Peru, which should get everybody... By the way, you might wish to go look at a movie trailer for a movie called The Day After Tomorrow.
	And see what it means to you.
	We'll talk more about that.
	At any rate, they have now found a plant in Peru that was flash frozen.
	I told you about this 5,000 years ago.
	Like that!
	Now, the thing about this is that it was preserved from 5,000 years ago.
	Guess why?
	Because the climate where that green thing was growing changed.
	Like that.
	Literally.
	Like that.
	From a climate's point of view, in a few hours.
	No, from our point of view, in just a few hours.
	For the climate, that's incredibly unlikely.
	Scientists are now beginning to understand there can be rapid, unexpected, catastrophic climate change.
	It can occur.
	And this would be evidence that it did, because you see, it never did thaw out.
	So scientists are now going to be, again, studying very carefully down in Peru as they wonder how green things could have been instantly melted.
	That can only be rapid climate change.
	All right, let's do as I suggested we would do, and let us begin by taking a few calls.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hey, I have a story about being Being kind of abducted and... Kind of abducted.
	All right, you're going to have to speak up good and loudly into your telephone.
	I said the story is about, uh, about being wiretapped.
	Oh, wiretapped.
	Right.
	And that's not the same as abducted.
	No, no, no.
	It's not the same.
	Although there are, there are similar principles involved.
	It's just, uh, information in your voice there.
	Say, were you wiretapped?
	Well, see, I kind of think I was.
	Kind of think.
	Here's a situation.
	Here I'm driving down in this Ford Tempo.
	You know, I was just going down the street and all of a sudden I started hearing my voice come over the car radio.
	Oh, that's bad.
	See, I was just kind of listening to, you know, just the radio station and all of a sudden I started hearing myself talking over the radio.
	That's very bad.
	And the reason why it's bad is because you can easily put a transmitter in a car With a microphone.
	In fact, you can buy it at a lot of local little radio stores that will broadcast like Mr. Microphone on the AM band, so... Huh.
	But the only problem is, is I never bought one of those things, and it was just kind of like... It was just kind of doing that.
	Well, then you were being kind of tapped.
	But see, the reason why it's kind of thinking maybe it was being abducted is because I was listening to a show where they're saying that aliens Uh-huh.
	Well, I guess they kind of could.
	But they don't kind of often do that.
	Aliens have more sophisticated methods.
	Is there any other earthly human motivation you can think of for anybody wanting to know what you would be saying in your car?
	I don't know of any, but the situation was that night... Are you working on a secret government project, perhaps?
	No, I'm not, but... Putting together missiles late at night?
	No, I'm just regular.
	Just regular, huh?
	But see, the thing was, the night before that, I had this weird dream, and there were these white creatures hanging around me.
	And kind of, I had flashpoints to that car, and that's what just totally startled me about it.
	Uh, white creatures hanging around.
	White creatures.
	But that was only in a dream.
	I woke up and the next day I did everything just fine.
	And then, and then as I was driving down the road, it's kind of like a deja vu all of a sudden, I hear myself over that radio.
	There you were.
	Well, it happens to me all the time.
	Uh, although in my case, I'm usually listening to a show that I just did a few hours earlier.
	Now, taking what you said seriously, I would discard the alien aspect.
	Probably, of what you just said.
	And imagine a more earthly reason for what happened to you.
	But hearing your own voice on the radio, AM or FM, is always a very bad sign.
	First-time caller line, you are on the air.
	Cheerio.
	Yes, Art.
	How are you doing?
	I'm doing all right, sir.
	My name is Chris.
	I'm calling from Beaufort, North Carolina.
	I just want to say it's a pleasure to finally call to you.
	And to you.
	Welcome.
	I was wanting to call and talk to you about the war in Iraq a little bit.
	Alright.
	I was in the Navy.
	I was a BOSA mate.
	Served my four years and I got out.
	It's basically dealing with the things that are going on now.
	All the criticism and everything against the war.
	It just kind of gets to me every now and then.
	I just wanted to say that first off, I hear a lot, little comments here and there about George W. Bush going over to the war, started everything, and it was all because of Saddam Hussein and putting the hit out on his father a number of years ago.
	And first off, I think that would justify reason itself, not being that it is his father, but just for the fact that that is an American president and an evil dictator of another country that has, in the past, and everybody knows he has, Use weapons of mass destruction to bame, kill, and basically demoralize his own people.
	Well, if that were the reason, though, to go to war, you know, if that was the reason, because of his brutality, then the United States should be closing in rapidly.
	Certainly, we should have fought our tail ends off in Cambodia, because there was a mass slaughter.
	Many more killed in Cambodia.
	Killing fields went on over there.
	The brutal dictatorship in North Korea.
	You see, it just doesn't survive as a reason to go to war, and if it does, then we have lots of reasons to go to lots of different wars with different countries, don't we?
	Oh, I understand.
	My father was in Cambodia.
	For years and years they said they weren't there, but my father served.
	He was drafted and he went over and he served in Cambodia.
	The other thing is... But the fact of the matter is, we are now in Iraq, so...
	Again, instead of even getting in arguments about it all, the question is, what should we do now?
	I mean, right now... What should we do now?
	Yeah, that's right.
	We're just sort of moving targets for the terrorists the way it is right now.
	We've got to change the dynamic going on over there.
	Well, we've been moving targets for the terrorists for years.
	That was stated back when Carter's administration was in office, dealing with the hijackings and things like that.
	The fact of the matter is, you know, Carter, even Reagan, Or Bush Senior have ever really done anything.
	They never quelled it when it first started.
	September 11th is a great tragedy.
	Well, you're still talking to me about history, though.
	We're there now.
	We're there now.
	We need to just keep doing what we're doing.
	I think we're doing mighty fine.
	The fact is that the numbers would compare.
	We have lost far less.
	We're nowhere.
	It's not a Vietnam.
	It's not going to turn into a Vietnam.
	We just, our guys are doing a great job and I just, I'm proudest bunch of them, tickled.
	Well they are doing a great job.
	Being in front of the military, being in front of the military, that is, that's my brotherhood, my family, that's my brotherhood.
	We have the best military in the world, period.
	There's no even argument about that.
	But there can be legitimate argument about the orders that they are given.
	And I don't know that Iraq was a wise war for the United States.
	I tend to think not.
	But again, I would much rather focus on the fact that we are there now and how we change the dynamic.
	I don't agree with this caller that it is at all satisfactory to, we're just doing great and just keep doing what we're doing.
	Well, what we're doing right now is getting picked off a lot, right?
	Daily accounts, maybe not the numbers of NOM right now, but daily accounts of death, and it's all meaningful.
	So we need to change the dynamic, turn the tables somehow on the people who hide behind women, children, and buildings, and get them before they get us.
	That's war.
	Get a shiver in the dark, it's raining in the park, mean time.
	Sound of the river, you stop and you hold everything.
	The After Dark Newsletter.
	Subscribe now by calling toll free 1-888-727-5505.
	Thank you for watching and please subscribe.
	Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	the Rockies 1-800-825-5033. First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222. And the wildcard
	line is open at 1-775-727-1295. To reach out on the toll free international line, call
	your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
	Ramona and myself were very, very lucky.
	We had an opportunity to fly Supersonic in the Concorde to Paris before they actually retired.
	The Concorde, which was very recently.
	But don't worry, if you didn't get a chance to fly supersonic, then hang on, because this announcement from Moscow.
	A new aircraft that you could fly in, for a few bucks anyway, and go, well, say, how does Moscow to New York in one hour sound?
	Russian aerospace experts say they could be just ten years away from developing an aircraft capable of doing exactly that, Moscow to New York in less than an hour.
	Dubbed the Cosmoplane, get this, the 250-foot-long aircraft would fly at a height of 650,000 feet and carry up to 1,200 people at speeds of up to 18,000 miles an hour.
	people at speeds of up to 18,000 miles an hour.
	Whoo-hoo, that's escape velocity.
	Plans for the Cosmoplane have been unveiled by experts from the Russian Aviation Institute
	at the International Aviation Aeronautics 2003 Exhibition in the Russian capital.
	Now, this thing would be big.
	It would be round in shape.
	Round!
	Round!
	Weighing up to 800 tons, the G-forces during the flight would be only similar to those experienced in an express lift elevator, you know?
	The Cosmo plane flight from Moscow to New York will take about 15 minutes, to Tokyo 53 minutes, and to Sydney, Australia in 66 minutes.
	Oh, baby, that's moving!
	But, should you desire a seat, a plane seat here will not be cheap.
	Initial calculations by MAI, the organization doing this, I guess, suggest that a ticket would cost at least 10,000 English We'll be right back.
	You remember we were talking about subtle energy a weekend or so ago, right?
	Remember that?
	Subtle energy.
	For example, this isn't so subtle in my mind, but people who are able to move material objects with their minds.
	I've got a very long, interesting letter from somebody who is named Michael who claims he certainly has that ability and can demonstrate it to me along with about 20 others that he has taught this psychokinesis talent to.
	And so I'm waiting to hear from you Michael with an invitation to demonstrate this to us.
	What do you say?
	Back to see what the gene pool has Dispensed our way.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, Eric.
	This is Rob from Cedar Rapids, Iowa.
	Hello, Rob.
	Hi.
	I had a question for you.
	Okay.
	I'm a Streamlink member, and we're having a little bit of a debate, and I was wondering if I could get the answer straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak.
	Well, I'm not a Streamlink expert, so... Well, it's actually about you.
	The debate's about you.
	All right.
	What is it?
	The movie, The Day After Tomorrow, is that based on your and Whitley's book?
	It is a movie, indeed, suggested by our book.
	Yes, indeed.
	Have you seen the trailer?
	Yes, I have.
	It looks excellent.
	It looks pretty awesome, doesn't it?
	It sure does.
	Yeah, it was extremely exciting.
	I received, I guess, that broke about a week or a week and a half ago, and I, of course, saw it right away, and I went, wow!
	And I had to remotely come in and take a look, and she went, wow!
	And so we're hoping to go soon to be able to see it, actually.
	Well, your book was very good, and hey, the movie looks very good, too, so I appreciate it.
	Yes, the only problem is I wish it was only a book and a movie.
	Unfortunately, the reality of our weather changes seem to be well underway right now.
	Yes, indeed.
	Have a good day, sir.
	Thank you, Art.
	All right, take care.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello?
	Hello.
	Thanks for having me on, Art.
	Yes.
	I'd just like to say, in regards to this so-called terror war, I really do believe that we're just being lied to wholesale by the government.
	I do believe that we are in the quagmire, in the desert now.
	What do you think U.S.
	motivation is for what we're doing in Iraq right now?
	The actual motivation, not the stated stuff, unless you agree with that, but the actual motivation.
	Why are we doing it?
	I think for the past 30 years that we've been wanting to basically control those natural resources that are in the Persian Gulf area, because if you control the energy that the people have access to, you can also control the development Let me poke one little stick in your idea here.
	If we were after control of natural resources, which I agree would be a goal, not necessarily a war worthy goal, but a goal.
	At least not one you can state.
	Then why did we make this money that we just sent over to Iraq?
	Why didn't we go ahead and make it a loan?
	Instead of, you know, an outright gift.
	After all, they have the ability to pay back the loan in oil.
	We're shedding blood.
	What's the matter with taking some of our own money back from their oil?
	Why would that be wrong?
	Well, I think that the money that's allocated, you know, for the $82 billion is actually allocated for the military, and very little of it is actually going to be spent on developing I know, but it's still THE military to continue to clean up their mess, and so why would it be inappropriate for us to charge them for that?
	Well, I think that we are charging them for it, but we can't seem to pump out enough oil out of the Gulf, because every time that we try to pump oil out of there, they blow up the pipeline.
	You've got to remember that even in Colombia, where we have pipelines, that the rebels there are blowing up the pipelines all the time.
	There's no way in the world that they can protect You know, a 500 mile long pipeline, you know, from the oil fields, you know... Alright, let's simply make the assumption that we will, given enough time, get things under control enough that the oil could pump.
	At that point, they could pay us back.
	And so, if we really had designs on... I mean, that's money, right?
	A lot of billions and billions of dollars.
	Don't you think that all these weapons that Saddam has cached all over Iraq, That he basically had planned this insurgency beforehand.
	It sure looks that way, sir.
	Yeah, it looks that way to me.
	And also, it seems to me also that Saddam is very popular, more popular than what the news media here in the United States is letting on.
	I mean, there's no way in the world that this guy could be hiding out for months if he wasn't, you know, very popular.
	But wait a minute, your first statement might explain that.
	You said he was anticipating This kind of reaction to our invasion should it happen, and I agreed with you there.
	But if he anticipated that whole thing, then he would have certainly... We know how paranoid he is with good cause.
	There have been many assassination attempts, so that will make you paranoid.
	And so, one would assume that since he knew we were about to invade, he would prepare adequately to be able to hide from us.
	And would probably have killed anybody who knew about his little secret locations in his little secret underground who-knows-what, right?
	So I think you were right about the first part, but I question, uh, or rather wrong about the first part, uh, with regard to our motivation.
	If we had that motivation, then we would have made it alone, and could have made it alone, just with a vote.
	But we decided not to.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Wait a minute here.
	Now you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, my name's Tara from Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
	Tara?
	Tara.
	Like gone with the wind.
	Oh, okay.
	Welcome.
	And I'm calling to come in on Iraq.
	Yes.
	My son just got back from over there.
	Thank goodness he was a Marine.
	And it's not a conventional war.
	I don't think that we're going to be able to Conquer or win this war on terror with conventional methods like we're doing.
	Our young women and men are over there now, just getting kicked off.
	I believe you had a guest on, or George did, several months back or months ago.
	His idea I had to totally agree with.
	What was it?
	I think we need to send undercover, covert men over there.
	If they shoot our people, we need to retaliate on that area of town or whatever.
	It's horrible.
	It is unspeakable.
	We're doing that right now.
	Well, no, I don't think we are.
	Not what I'm saying.
	It's like if a missile comes from a certain part of town, we drop a bomb in there.
	Because somebody knows these people.
	Well, okay, but see, what you're suggesting is, you know, that sounds just like Vietnam.
	Let's, we know there's some Kong in there, let's torch the whole village.
	You know, I just, I don't think we can do that.
	I certainly agree that we have to, let me say it again, alright, so I can be as clear as I possibly can be.
	We have to change, find a way to change the dynamic in the war.
	So that we're not picked off one at a time, two at a time, ten at a time, until finally U.S.
	opinion is so turned against the war that some president is forced, whether it be this or any future president, to retreat.
	We're there now, and what we need now is a way to win.
	And the way to win is not the way we appear to be going at it right now.
	It is going to be a slow, costly war of attrition and bad publicity.
	That's what's ahead of us, unless we change the dynamic.
	And I'm not a genius claiming to know what that change would be, but I do know it can't mean slaughtering civilians.
	A wild card line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yeah, hi.
	Hello, Art.
	Yes, hello.
	Yeah, hi.
	I want to tell you what I think we have to do to win in Iraq.
	But first I want to ask you, who did John Lear say was responsible for 9-11?
	Because he did say it wasn't bin Laden.
	That's what he said.
	He said it wasn't bin Laden.
	He did not say who it was.
	No, not to my recollection, no.
	Oh, well, I'll lose some sleep tonight.
	The whole concept is incorrect.
	I mean, it's not just a question of Iraq.
	It's supposedly a war on terrorism.
	It is a war on terrorism.
	And all these people that are saying we shouldn't be there are definitely forgetting 9-11.
	They're out to kill us.
	They want to destroy this country.
	And it's not impossible for them to do if the conditions are right.
	There has to be a draft, it has to be an oral report.
	The trouble is that there's not any evidence that even the current administration can seem to muster up that connects the 9-11 incident to Iraq.
	There really isn't.
	But the point is, terrorists are like birds of a feather, and I guarantee you there are al-Qaeda people in Iraq right now.
	And Syria and Iran are flanks.
	Actually, they're hiding places, is what they are.
	Right, and they're pouring in from both sides, and they're shooting our soldiers.
	That's what's happening, all right.
	And we have to topple those two.
	First of all, we've got to... Okay, wait, stop.
	So, your plan would be to widen the war, then, to both Syria and Iran.
	It has to be done that way, otherwise it's going to be a retreat eventually.
	Okay, at the point that you do that, You now have gone from your stated goals with regard to Iraq, supposed to be giving back the government to them, saying, here you go, democracy, have fun, right?
	Right.
	Now, all of a sudden, we're at war with all of Islam.
	Look, let's make an analogy with World War II.
	After Pearl Harbor, what if Roosevelt took Okinawa and had a holding action there and set up a democracy in Okinawa and that was it?
	I mean, it's ridiculous.
	We have to conquer our enemies or they're going to conquer us.
	Well, that would change the dynamic, to be sure.
	We have to be realistic about this, and I don't think the administration is being realistic, and the people on the left certainly aren't.
	I appreciate your call, sir.
	Thank you.
	Take care.
	So, his solution, it's not unthinkable either.
	Certainly, if we wanted to cook up provocation to do such a thing, if we did, just saying, if we did, the fact that so many operatives have escaped from Iraq, So many top officials of Saddam's regime have escaped to Iran, have escaped to Syria, and I suppose one could cite that as provocation to have an incursion.
	Right?
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	My name's Fiona.
	Fiona.
	Yes.
	And I was calling because I have a friend named Pilar, and It's kind of a long story, but I think it relates to David Ito.
	I'm not familiar with him.
	Well, you will have to keep it short for the purposes of broadcast, so do your best.
	Okay.
	My friend went home for a vacation and thought that her father's eyes turned to eyes like a reptile.
	Later, she began to see reptiles and she was very sick with MS and was cured.
	And she believes that she's half reptile and half human and she has been able to communicate with these people.
	Have you seen her do anything at all scaly?
	No, I haven't personally.
	Have you seen her acting in a reptile way?
	No, but she's been able to predict things.
	Does she even snap her jaws unusually?
	She has huge jaws and a big mouth.
	And a big mouth.
	Well, that cinches it.
	To what?
	She's a reptile.
	So she's... I thought for a while she was schizophrenic, but she says... Well, that's another possibility.
	But she says all the things that I says, or I think, I've only seen his website, about there being other reptiles, that they're a militaristic race, that they are involved in government.
	Well...
	They might be, or maybe the whole reptile thing is sort of an analogy for a secret government.
	Maybe they're not really reptiles.
	They're just reptile-like in the way they act.
	Manipulate the government behind the scenes.
	Maybe somebody joked once and said, what a bunch of reptiles, and that's how it all began.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello, Art Bell.
	It's been a long time from never to talk to you.
	Well, welcome.
	Where are you?
	Well, my name's Scott.
	I'm calling from Glendale, Arizona.
	I've been listening to you since 1991.
	That's a long time.
	Now listen, I had a very interesting thing happen to me last year.
	I was on a trip home from Florida, and I decided to visit Dealey Plaza.
	I went up on the grassy knoll, right where Badge Man was seen.
	I looked down on the ground, and I saw little pieces of broken glass.
	I looked to my right and I saw a pipe sticking out of the ground.
	It's approximately two inches in diameter and about two inches in height out of the ground.
	It appeared to be something that was associated with water or something at one time.
	Yes.
	I looked down and it was filled with dirt at this point.
	Yes.
	And I looked down in the dirt and there was something grassy and I Pulled it out, and it was a bullet shell.
	Oh, here we go.
	So, you found the brass casing to the bullet that shot Kennedy.
	Well, I don't know that.
	I can't determine that.
	Now, with all due deference to you, sir, do you really think that if the brass casing from the bullet that killed Kennedy from the Grassy Knoll, which was searched with micro-surgery, would still be laying on the ground?
	Well, it wasn't on the ground, that's what I'm trying to tell you.
	It was in a pipe.
	And I thought to myself... Alright, let me go down this road with you.
	So, what did you do with it?
	Did you start yelling and screaming at the top of it?
	No.
	The first thing I did was I took it, I picked it up, I tapped the dirt out.
	When I tapped the dirt, I noticed there was an air pocket at the base of the shell.
	That told me that it probably was not just stuffed and put there.
	And you just took it home?
	I've got it here, yeah.
	settled in there over time. Next, I then took it into the museum and showed it to a teenage
	ticket taker. And he just, you know, made a few comments on it and said, well you never
	know, this could be what's needed to prove conspiracy. I said, hey, you never know. And
	I left and took it to go home. And you just took it home? I've got it here, yeah. You've
	got it there? Yes. The brass casing from the gunman who nobody could find on the grassy
	Well, I don't know.
	You have to understand, it's very possible that when the shell fired off, because it was right at that spot.
	I got it.
	It went into the pipe and covered with dirt.
	It went down underground.
	That's why anybody with a metal detector would have detected a metal pipe.
	But why have you not gone?
	To the Secret Service, or to the FBI, or SOMEBODY!
	I just spent about a week calling every news organization, CNN.
	I emailed you several times, but I'm sure your emails get lost.
	And what, well, they're probably read, you know.
	Yeah, and I think people either think I'm a crackpot... Well, I mean, you could come across that way, only you don't actually sound like a crackpot.
	Now maybe you've, but I just, it's a little crackpot-ish to take it home.
	I mean, most people would start screaming, hey, hey!
	Like I said, I took it into the museum, which I had visited, and then, you know, he just made his comments, and I said, well, you know, I'm going to take it with me at some point.
	I figured around this time would be a good time.
	The people would be more interested around now, because it's the 40th anniversary.
	All right.
	Listen to me.
	You send me another email.
	Put Kennedy assassination in the header, so I'll know.
	All right?
	Okay.
	All right.
	I'll look for it.
	I mean, you never know, folks, but... but... what if?
	Stranger things have happened, haven't they?
	To access the audio archives of Coast to Coast AM, log on to coasttocoastam.com.
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	He's got this dream of broadbands and land He's gonna give up the blues and the one-night stands
	And then he'll settle down in this quiet little town And forget about everything
	But you know he'll always keep moving You know he's never gonna stop moving
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	This is Coast to Coast AM, with Art Bell, from the Kingdom of Nine.
	Welcome to the best overnight radio program in the world.
	By the way, if your radio station does not carry both Sunday and Saturday nights of Coast to Coast AM, or misses any other day of the week, call them up and say, What's up?
	You got that lame stuff on when you could have Costco's AM on.
	So... But, you know, you want to be very polite.
	I should say very polite.
	Alright, coming up.
	Member of the beginning program, we talked a little bit about bugs.
	And maybe I'll tell a little more of my story here, but not much.
	Coming up, Roger Tulsis.
	He's a Los Angeles private investigator.
	He specializes in electronic countermeasures.
	In the past 30 years, he's swept over, get this, 2,500 locations for bugs and wiretaps, has worked for millionaires, gangsters, that'll be interesting, movie stars, superstar athletes, pornographers, cult leaders, politicians, doctors, lawyers, real estate moguls, psychics, UFO contactees, I suspect that was thrown in for our benefit, Gamblers, casinos, oh I bet they do a lot of that, sports, betting operations, boiler room operators, smugglers, union leaders, aircraft builders, soldiers of fortune, madams, cult deprogrammers, diplomats, and arms dealers.
	Ha!
	There's a group!
	In recent years, his business has included helping victims of electronic harassment.
	Electronic harassment?
	takes place if someone uses any sort of electronic device to aid them in invading your person or property, or for the purpose of gathering information illegally, or for the purpose of causing physical harm.
	Mr. Tulsis uses over $100,000 of high-tech equipment to identify the sources of electronic harassment.
	In a moment, Roger Tulsis.
	stay right there.
	was a couple of decades ago, actually.
	And, you know, information is power.
	I mean, it is absolute power these days.
	We have made it so with our modern world.
	A lot of people think when they pick up a cordless device, like a telephone, that even though they're, of course, transmitting over the air, whether it be to a cell site or they just have a cordless phone at home or whatever, they think that's private.
	At any rate, even if they did subconsciously know it's going over the air, they don't ever anticipate that anybody might be able to listen into that information, and they readily forget that it is a wireless phone.
	And they discuss things on it that they ought not.
	Well, somebody did something truly awful to me a couple of decades ago, and so I built a five element beam for 49 megahertz, pointed it at this individual's house, And listen to his conversations for a protracted period of time, and I screwed with that guy's life.
	I got him back for what he did to me.
	Let's just leave it at that.
	In fact, I will leave it at that.
	Shouldn't have said that much, probably.
	But, Roger, welcome to the program.
	So you're the perpetrator.
	Yeah, I went back after somebody.
	Let's just put it that way.
	Believe me, I think I had a four-element 49 megahertz beam into the guy's house, and I just waited, and sure enough, boy.
	It was a Yagi, about 24 dB gain?
	Yeah, I said, well, I don't know, 24, probably 20, somewhere in there, yeah.
	And then after a while, you knew all about the gossip, his life, and it's amazing what you can learn when people don't think that they're being listened to, all the dirty laundry, huh?
	That's right.
	That's absolutely right.
	And if you have revenge-like emotions for somebody and you have information on them, they might not want people to have.
	Why then?
	Gee, that person's in a whole lot of trouble.
	So yeah, I did it.
	I can't even say I'm sorry.
	It was just fine.
	What I did to him was not nearly so bad as what he did to me.
	Leave it at that.
	Anyway, we're here to talk about The various methods that can be used to do this, to gain information, and I know a lot of them are a lot more technologically complex than what I did.
	Well, of course, you know, the rate of development in the past few years, especially with the cell system coming online, has really changed the whole surveillance outlook.
	I bet.
	I've been for the past couple days at a private eye convention down here at San Diego, and we'll get a chance to talk about a few of the things that I saw.
	There was quite a few vendors here that had some pretty interesting things, and I got a chance to meet some rather clever people.
	But one of the things that I got a chance to look at, which was pretty shocking, was a cell phone bug that goes on a phone line.
	In other words, if you can access the pair anywhere from the target's location, being at a home or being in a business, and you can access a telephone pair, You can put this device on that telephone pair and when this fellow lifts his phone to make a call, the information in his phone line goes into the cell phone bug and is transmitted to wherever listening post they've put in the automatic dialing mechanism of the cell phone.
	Wow!
	So they could be in Moscow, you know, and you lift your phone line and you start talking and that cell phone goes into operation with your conversation on it sending it.
	I'd like to clear something up for me.
	As much of the American public as we can reach right now with this.
	Ever since I've been small, I've heard people saying, Aha!
	I heard a click on the phone!
	I just heard that!
	It's a tap!
	Someone's listening!
	Croc, pretty much, isn't it, Roger?
	Because if somebody wants to tap your phone, no matter the modern method they use, you're not going to hear a big click and somebody breathing on the other end or something.
	Let me tell you a story.
	About 20 years ago, there were some Arabs, and this was before that terrorism time, but there were some Arabs, people in Los Angeles, that were arrested by the Feds, and they were charged with terrorism.
	I still got the article.
	And so the Arab Defense League decided to set up an office in West Los Angeles to defend these people, which they put in an existing attorney's office.
	After about a week, the attorney decided that it was getting to be too complicated for his office, that they needed to move to another office.
	So they opened a new office over in Hollywood, which is about five or ten miles away.
	On the morning that the new phone lines got turned on in the new office, the secretaries lifted the phone, and they were talking to the secretaries in the old office.
	And what happened was, is the feds had wiretapped this office, and when they went to bridge the new tap, they forgot to pull the bridge on the old location, going to their listening posts, so they crossed both locations.
	I went in there and we discovered that, and we documented it, and those attorneys, famous civil rights attorneys, went right back into federal court and filed a motion to discover wiretap, and the result was that the charges against these people were immediately dropped because they didn't want to be further embarrassed.
	So talk about how badly things can be bungled.
	There's a prime example.
	Okay, okay.
	For the most part.
	If somebody does a professional tap on your phone, unless that level of screw-up occurs, you're not going to hear clicks and crunches and people breathing.
	Yeah, if it's a competent job with a high impedance bridging tap, you're not.
	However, I have to tell you that a lot of people are not competent and they do put clip leads and things that are flaky on there And another thing that happens is if the impedance of the tapping device happens to have any kind of non-linearity to it, then an AM radio station, like the ones you're on, can end up starting to play music in the circuits.
	I've seen that happen as well.
	Oh, I've heard it happen, too.
	Sure, it just gets rectified in there and you begin hearing a station, so... Right.
	So, you know, you've got to know what you're doing to do it right.
	Of course, you know, the main thing that's happening now is when they passed this CALEA law in 1974, Whereby they pre-wired everybody's telephones and everybody's pagers and their cell phones for wiretaps on a wide area network.
	That law was called the Communication Assistance to Law Enforcement, CALEA.
	And it was all paid for by adding taxes on everybody's phone bill.
	So now everybody's in a wide area network and all the government has to do is go in there and throw a couple of keystrokes because you're pre-wired.
	And your conversations go to their hard drives.
	Well, okay.
	Here we go.
	My presumption is, for example, with the work that I do, I have presumed for years that probably my phones are tapped.
	Probably my email is read.
	And so I always conduct myself in that full knowledge.
	I don't think it's unrealistic.
	It's entirely possible.
	I've had all kinds of sensitive things cross my computer and over my telephone lines, but I'm aware enough not to discuss critical information on the telephone at all.
	I just don't.
	I'm that aware.
	And I guess more people should be.
	But keep in mind that the Founding Fathers' intent was that it would take a judicial order in order for you to be lawfully listened to.
	And one of the things that's happening now is as we move into this Paranoia that the Patriot Bill, this whole Patriot Bill that got fast-tracked.
	Is it not justified?
	Is paranoia not justified?
	Well, it is justified.
	It is justified, but the point is that the original intent of our founding fathers having a Fourth and Fifth Amendment is that you should not have to look over your shoulder, especially in your home, speaking freely and keeping your papers from being viewed.
	And having surreptitious entries and some of these things that this new Patriot Bill allows.
	And the Patriot Bill seems to go further and further away from the judicial oversight.
	They're getting more into this administrative kind of thing where they don't require a judicial order and of course they moved into this roving wiretaps which means that they don't need to generate an order for every phone being listened to.
	While I abhor the erosion of the Fourth Amendment, believe me, as much as anybody else, let me put it to you.
	be it a cell phone, be it on the internet, or be it on any other mode of communication
	that they can move instantly from one to the next.
	While I abhor the erosion of the Fourth Amendment, believe me, as much as anybody else, let me
	put it to you.
	Yes, not on the one side, but on the other side we have people entering our country,
	taking airliners and smashing them into the biggest buildings in New York, destroying
	pentagon virtually at war with us wanting to kill us So, we do have that over here on the one hand, and we have the Fourth Amendment over on, in this other hand, and we're kind of weighing them back and forth, and I don't know, without these powers, how do they go after these people who want to kill us?
	Well, my focus, my focus has always been that these things should be handled at the border of America.
	In other words, you should not be able to walk across the border of America or bring in all the amount of drugs and dope and allow these huge containers to come off these ships without any inspection at all.
	I mean, we really need to focus on the borders.
	Once the borders have been breached and these people are on the inside, I don't really know that you can stop an event.
	Most of the time, you're going to be trailing the event, so I really think the borders are the key.
	Yeah, maybe.
	There are awfully big borders, both to the seaside and to the landsides.
	It was just immense, absolutely immense.
	We've got some very impressive electronic systems these days, you know.
	We've got very impressive electronic underground sensors.
	We've got all kinds of sophisticated video surveillance gear.
	We've got satellites.
	They can see human body heat from long distances away with these heat sensing devices.
	So it's not like you can't pick these people up.
	And of course, you know, heck, if you can track almost every individual in America's bank account, you know, that know your customer thing that they were trying to put through as well, whereby the computer systems are going to track everybody's banking profile.
	And if your profile shifts out of normal, then Then they're going to flag you and send you in.
	Well, you know, you can turn that kind of computer power towards the borders of America.
	I'm with you.
	I mean, I have no argument.
	I'm not sure that it all can be handled at the borders at all.
	How about this as well?
	Now we've paid to have everybody's phone pre-wired for surveillance in America, but what happens when you go down at 7-Eleven and right now, today, tonight, you can go in there and buy yourself a $100 phone You don't have to sign up at all.
	You buy a 300-minute card, and there it is.
	You're able to talk to whomever you want as an anonymous phone instrument, and the people that are wired are you and me.
	Meanwhile, the Arabs, who have plenty of money to do these things, or whoever the terrorists may be, can switch phones anytime they want to swing down.
	And you don't think that if a law enforcement agency found it, Is it necessary to do so that they could, I don't know, somehow be able to monitor such phone as you just described from 7-Eleven or whatever?
	Well, first of all, they'd have to identify the existence of that phone.
	And if they shut off the caller identification setup, then it would be pretty tricky to track it down.
	Well, you and I both know you can get close to a person with a cell phone and you can have a frequency readout of exactly, not only the frequency, but the ESN.
	Yes.
	Electronic serial number.
	You can't do that if you're close proximity.
	But then again, these people are slippery.
	They're not going to let you sit right next to them and do that.
	At least I wouldn't expect so.
	But still, the presumption is they buy a phone, they're going to use it.
	So you follow them until they use it, and you collect the information you need.
	If you're the CIA or somebody, I suppose there are ways.
	Yeah, if you even know where they are.
	I mean, usually it's the other way around.
	Normally, they would find the communications through the NSA or something else, and then they'd work the communications backwards to finding where they were.
	Basically, everybody's cell phone is trackable over the time that they have it on.
	In other words, you don't even need to be making phone calls.
	You carry a cell phone on for 90 days, and the phone company will go back and tell you everywhere you've been.
	Because the phone handshakes every time it changes the cell area.
	That's right.
	And they do track that information.
	In other words, they track your geographic movements.
	And on what basis does the phone company collect that information?
	That's the way the routine is set up, from what I understand.
	Why do they need to know where you go and where you roam?
	Well, I think they're starting to have a requirement for that, pursuant to the emergency system that they're putting in on the GPS basis.
	No kidding?
	They're going to be able, if you dial 9-1-1, they're going to know exactly where you're standing.
	Well, pros and cons again, I suppose.
	The age, big brother, firmly upon us, certainly moving in very quickly.
	That's why I carry a pager, and I keep the battery out of my cell phone.
	If you want to talk to me, you page me, and then if I'm in a good place, Then I'll plug it in.
	Now, what reason would Roger have for being that careful?
	Well, Roger just likes to not leave a distinct trail of what Roger does because he doesn't think it's anybody's business.
	Well, I would tend to agree with you, but you must feel that there's somebody who is or might attempt to make use of that information.
	Yes.
	And the answer is yes.
	Well, the answer is yes, but why go ahead and leave a trail if it's unnecessary to do so?
	Have you got lots of good enemies out there, Roger?
	No, but I'm, you know, I'm, look, listen, if anybody in America should be conscientious about surveillance, it should be a surveillance expert, right?
	Given, yeah, sure.
	Well, that's just happened, that happens to be the animal that I am because I've been doing it for 30 years.
	Let's talk about the animal you are for a second.
	Most of what is written here seems to indicate that you're the guy who goes out to find Bugs.
	You've searched, what, 2,500 locations, it says, right?
	That's right.
	So what I'm curious about, though, is have you ever been on the other side of the fence, planting the bugs?
	Yeah, it's unlawful to do that in America.
	In other words, they passed the 1968 Omnibus Act, and there's a $10,000 or 10 years fine for wiretapping.
	As a matter of fact, we've got a private eye out here who looks like he's in a pretty big stew with that act.
	I don't know whether you looked at the papers the past week or so, but there was a private eye out here.
	It looks like he's going to be accused of wiretapping some of the people in Hollywood that are the movers and shakers.
	That's interesting.
	If you had done anything of that sort, you wouldn't be able to speak of it.
	Of course not.
	But it goes on.
	I know plenty of instances where I've I've been able to detect these things in people's locations, and they do a tremendous amount of damage.
	Well, here's something I always wondered about.
	Do you remember the lady who recorded Newt Gingrich's phone call?
	Yes, I do.
	Do you know how about that?
	Right.
	It was a cell phone, right?
	Right.
	And I don't ever recall her getting a $10,000 fine or any follow-up, anything on that score.
	Maybe there was something, but I kept looking for it, and I never found that she got in trouble.
	They did charge her with something and I think they settled it with the probation if I remember correctly.
	Interesting.
	We'll be right back.
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	and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
	My guest is Roger Tulsis, and he's in the business of bugs.
	It's not planting them, certainly.
	Why, that would be illegal.
	And certainly finding them for people.
	What a group he's found them for.
	Researched, anyway.
	Anyway, we'll talk about some of that in a moment.
	I must admit, I'm shocked at the cell phone thing.
	Now, I understood that cell phones could certainly be tracked.
	I mean, anybody who's seen any of the recent police shows knows that.
	You know, a 911 call's made or whatever.
	And they quickly identify the exact location or very close by whatever cell is reporting back the usage, but I did not know that even when your cell phone is off, it's tracking where you go and that information is being maintained somewhere.
	That was a surprise to me, Roger.
	You want to take a minute and talk about some computer stuff that just happened here at this PI convention?
	I do, but I have a computer-related question, and I was going to hesitate to ask it because I didn't know whether you covered that or not, but may I ask it?
	Vicky B. says, Hey Art, please ask your guest.
	For about five months now, my zone alarm was reporting constant port scans from an IP address assigned to the Department of Defense.
	Should I be concerned?
	The big white yes.
	With a big yes, huh?
	You better believe it.
	Okay.
	Yeah, this is interesting.
	At this PI convention where I was, I was here with my equipment showing it to other PIs and, you know, because we work with other PIs.
	Next, in the next booth for me was another PI, Daniel Libby, and he is a computer forensic specialist.
	And we had our laptop there, and the interesting thing is we had bought this laptop from a friend of mine about a year ago that owned a pawn shop, so there was a prior owner to the laptop.
	Okay.
	So we were there with Daniel, and Daniel says, well, let me use my scanning disk.
	He has these specialized disks that examine the inner workings of the subsystems of the codes, you know, the inside code of a computer.
	So he hooked his laptop to ours, went through the USB port, And injected some of these evaluation programs.
	Now keep in mind we had, when we got this laptop, we erased everything that was not of interest to us.
	We just had left on just everything that we wanted.
	Everything else went into the trash, you know, the computer trash.
	He went through with his diagnostic system and within about an hour he came up and gave you the exact number with 800,236 files.
	800,236 files.
	We have an 18 gigahertz drive.
	So he found 800,000 files that we thought we erased.
	Then he started using his software to bring up the photographs and other graphics that had been inside the machine, and that includes websites that the prior person went to that didn't get erased either.
	And believe it or not, there was pornography on this machine, and an excessive amount of pornographic pictures.
	And we didn't even know they were there, because we thought that when they went in the trash, that they were a goner off the machine.
	But the fact is, when they go in the trash, your machine just loses the directory to where they live, and they just sit there on the hard drive.
	Because, you know, when you've got a hard drive that's 18 gig, unlikely you're going to write over these things.
	So even if you do, my understanding is that there's actually technology that can go and find what's written under the newly written stuff.
	It's unbelievable.
	Well, yeah, but how many people think that when they trash something or they do hit that delete button, that thing is off there.
	It's all there.
	We're talking about 800,000 files, which took 1.07 gig.
	We're talking about 800,000 files, which took 1.07 gig.
	So there was 1.07 gig of information on that machine that wasn't even mine.
	And God forbid, what happens if it had been child pornography
	and that machine had fallen into the wrong hands and somebody turned it over?
	What would you say?
	Would you say, well that wasn't mine?
	Well I talked to an expert in this field who said actually the only safe thing to do is to burn your hard drive.
	We did another program with some kind of expert.
	He said virtually you'd have to burn your hard drive to make it safe before you sold whatever you wanted to sell of the rest of your computer.
	Now here's another one.
	There was another private eye there that had an office up in Van Nuys, which is north of San Diego.
	He left in his car, sitting in front of his office, a covert video camera.
	That covert video camera was making real-time video pictures that were being fed to a hard drive.
	So in other words, that camera was a surveillance camera.
	But that same camera was using the cell system And using a new feature that our particular cell site companies out here give, which is a fast data link.
	He sent those pictures through the cell system, and he had a handheld PDA in his hand that was linked by the cell system.
	And we were looking at the pictures coming out of this camera real time.
	So that means that any place that anybody can put a camera.
	And the other frightening thing is, you know, you see on the website, these 2.4 gigahertz Very small cameras that people sell for, you know, a couple hundred bucks.
	Yep.
	Well, I've got a friend that is a distributor of these things, and he sells on the internet 16,000 cameras a month.
	And I wonder where they're all going.
	Well, the point is, he's only one of maybe 10.
	Oh, yeah.
	So we could have a quarter of a million covert hidden cameras, a lot of them being used by perverts and unsavory people.
	So that, you know, we talk about bugs, these new little 2.4 gig cameras are a real, real horrible thing.
	Well, what do the laws say about it?
	I mean, nothing, right?
	Not much about video yet.
	In other words, you can place a camera somewhere and, as you point out, you can get a high-speed data link from a cell phone or from an air card, what's called an air card, a little bitty thing, and just Away you go!
	So, I don't know, there's no law, huh?
	Yeah, no, there's no law relating to video, because basically, their original thinking on it is that you've got no reasonable expectation of privacy in a public area.
	Now, when you're in a restroom, it should be different, obviously.
	But, you know, they really haven't addressed that problem yet, and we're really dealing with technology that's exceeding anybody's expectations of privacy.
	Where do you think the Fourth Amendment acts should fall on this activity?
	Well, the courts seem to want to limit it at the doors of our homes.
	There was this one case not too long ago where they were using infrared sensing equipment looking for people who were growing pot inside houses by the fact that the home would have an excessive amount of heat.
	They were flying these aircraft over cities looking for houses that were emanating heat.
	Based on that, as a probable cause, they were raiding places.
	Did they stop?
	Yeah, what happened was they got challenged and the Supreme Court did find that once you're within the border of a home, if you have electronic equipment that will see through those borders, see through the walls and see through the doors, and they do have all kinds of different equipment that can do that, That you are protected from those kind of devices and that kind of invasion.
	That violates your reasonable expectation of privacy.
	Well, you have full expectation of privacy within your own home.
	I mean, that's supposed to be sacred.
	That was the intent of the founding fathers when they put the Fourth Amendment.
	Now, there was a rumor going around that the Soviets had technology, and I guess we do too, of hitting a window, a window, with some sort of microwave signal, I guess, and like radar, Just simply picking up the vibrations on the window pane and then bouncing it back and listening to the conversation going on inside the building of the house.
	Yes?
	Well, that never worked very well.
	First of all, it was laser beams.
	It was a light reflection.
	Lasers, okay.
	And the problem with that is twofold.
	First of all, window panes tend to vibrate from ambient street noise much more than they do from human speech because the power level is so good.
	At least in a city environment.
	Secondarily, the reflection coefficient on that is such that you have to be in direct line of sight and direct line of reflection back.
	So you need to have a system that has a scope on it like a rifle.
	It has to be precision aimed and precision reflected back.
	Not easy to do.
	I've never met anybody that has done that successfully.
	You know, bugs are so much easier.
	And the real threat right now is these cell phone bugs because they've got cell phones that they've converted into bugs.
	And the way they did that is, you know, your normal cell phone has a proximity mic, whereby the microphone is tuned to not pick up background.
	That's why you can talk to people and be in traffic or be in a location that has a lot of noise in the background, but people don't hear it.
	Well, these cell phone bugs are set up so that their microphones are opposite that, in the sense that they pick up every sound in a room with precision.
	They're made for more distant sound.
	God knows normal cell phone mics aren't.
	In fact, actually, if I were a dictator of the USA, I would have every cell phone gathered in a giant trash compactor and I'd have them all smashed into little bits of nothing.
	I hate cell phones.
	They have the worst audio.
	Maybe you can answer this for me.
	For an industry that supposedly took a step forward, And I speak of the entire cell phone industry now.
	They all sound like pure crap to me.
	The audio is horrible, and it's not like we're in the 21st century at all.
	Why is it so bad, and can we have any expectation that it'll get better?
	Well, it's time to main frequency hopping.
	It's direct sequence frequency hopping.
	It's a multiplex, which means that your conversation is chopped up into little micro bits, and then they're time-slotted in with everybody else.
	And that's why When you're talking to people, you hear the bits and pieces when you hit this dropout, and the time segment starts.
	Yes, exactly.
	So it's time segmented, and of course, the interesting thing is this was originally done for electronic warfare on the battlefield, whereby they wanted to try to come up with a formula for putting out frequency transmissions that wouldn't be easily jammed.
	Yes.
	And it's not easy to jam, and they work pretty good on low power, but once again, you've got that annoying You lose the warmth and the texture of a landline where you have that continuity of analog and you're making this digital conversion where you're time segmenting and losing time slots and it is very annoying.
	Well it is and so my question was simply is there any expectation that technology is going to improve and it will get better?
	I think the more they saturate us with the cell sites Well, okay, let's jump on that one.
	links than the better the quality but the price to be paid for that is that
	you're putting all this 2.4 gigahertz and or actually 1.960 gigahertz and 800
	megahertz up against your brain and the more you put this stuff in the
	environment the more you're going to suffer physically.
	Well okay let's jump on that one. I have heard many rumors that one gig and up
	would be dangerous to the human brain.
	What do you really think, Roger?
	Do you really think it is that dangerous that people need to be alarmed about it and not use a cell phone unless there is an emergency?
	That kind of alarm, do you think, or what?
	Well, I certainly wouldn't use a cell phone unless I was using the earphone attachment and getting that cell phone a couple of feet away from my head, especially for kids.
	I try to get my daughter to stop doing it, but you know how these kids are.
	If they could implant a cell phone, they would probably go ahead and do it.
	Just listen to the symptoms of electronic radiation exposure.
	These are symptoms that we've done a lot of research on.
	If you get microwaves put to your head on an ongoing basis, you could have headaches, eye irritation, dizziness, nausea, skin rash, facial swelling, weakness, fatigue, pain in joints and muscles, buzzing and ringing in the ears, skin numbness, Abdominal pressure and pain.
	Breathing difficulty.
	Irregular heartbeat.
	Balance problems.
	But otherwise you're okay, though?
	Well, the point is that if you tend to... you find yourself with these kind of physical systems... Symptoms.
	Yeah, but a lot of people will say, oh my god, I've got it.
	I mean, those are fairly general symptoms and there's a big controversy right now about whether cell phones really do harm you or not, isn't there, to be honest?
	Well, there was a man that wrote a book on it.
	He did the research on it and he shows an MRI.
	of somebody using a cell phone and you can see the hemisphere of his head is saturated in the microwave.
	Here's your brain on cell phone.
	Well, you know, they tell you not to stand by a microwave oven.
	Here's an oven that's shielded, but they tell you to stand back from it when it's cooking.
	You're talking about the same frequency range right there.
	I always stand and watch my coffee.
	Little short-term memory loss, but I wouldn't drink it because you will be drinking secondary emission as well.
	Well, you know, the thing about human beings is that they've heated their food over millions of years with flame.
	Flame vibrates molecules at random frequencies.
	When you use a klystron tube in a microwave, it will resonate and cause the molecules to resonate at 2.4 gigahertz.
	And so when the food is hot, that heat coming off is a secondary emission of 2.4.
	And if you tend to eat it, then you're subjecting your insides to 2.4 as well.
	Well, I'll tell you, I'm cooked anyway.
	All my life, I've cooked myself with microwave.
	I worked and assembled a 13-gig Cars Bend microwave system and worked around that stuff eight hours a day and maybe a lot more and actually assembled the microwave gear and all the rest of that.
	I mean, this was the kind of stuff where, if by mistake, you should happen to get your eye lined up with microwave emission, you're blind instantly.
	I mean, it was that serious.
	Well, have you felt that you ever had negative effects from all that exposure?
	Oh, it's really hard to quantify.
	I don't know.
	Maybe.
	I mean, I've stood in front of a satellite or microwave dishes, for example, and felt my leg getting warm.
	How's that one?
	Yeah, well, that sounds like...
	Well you know the interesting thing is the research and there's an interesting research paper that was released in Europe last year and basically what it said is that those limits on microwave exposure were originally set on thermal basis.
	No longer because now they're starting to realize that when you take waves of that nature and you beam them towards people you're interfering with brain function and brain regulation of the body.
	To the extent that people have health problems and also people have difficulty with their thought processes.
	They become disoriented and lethargic and of course this is kind of what the covert black ops people have been doing especially with making these microwave energy weapon systems that are now in the non-lethal technology.
	I don't know if you've seen the active denial unit which is a microwave I have not.
	It's on the internet, but they call it active denial.
	It operates at 60 gigahertz and puts out so much power that they allowed a reporter to go out and stand in the beam.
	He volunteered to do so.
	It's on the Popular Mechanics website.
	So he went out there and he stood probably about 500 feet away from this thing.
	Basically, it's a microwave antenna mounted on top of a Humvee.
	And they turned the thing on, and he said it was like having a hot light bulb pressed on your skin.
	And in about three seconds, he dove out of the ray and hit the dirt.
	And this is one of the weapons that they've got.
	This one's online.
	And it can be mounted on a Humvee or put on an aircraft.
	Well, you, of course, have heard of HAARP, right?
	Of course.
	Harp is said to have, at a larger scale, Roger, similar characteristics, possibly.
	They don't talk a lot about this aspect of it, but those who have studied harp believe that it could be used to confuse entire armies on the battlefield at a great distance.
	Well, you know, if you go into this electronic harassment section on my website, and maybe people should look at it while we're talking, it's bugsweeps.com.
	If you go to the front page, there's a vibrating box that says electronic harassment, and if you click on that, it will take you to these pages.
	On the pages, we show some of these microwave weapons, energy beam weapons, that people have put together to harass one another.
	We have one of the pictures there is of a microwave oven where an individual peeled the the side of the microwave oven open and
	turned it into an energy beam weapon where there was 700-800 watts and he just unleashed it
	at his neighbors through the wall. He was living in an apartment building. We have a diagram
	of that and he caused these people to get dreadfully ill over time.
	Oh my!
	We have joked about this on a ham radio that they are in fact very high power, 700, 800 or more watts.
	That's a great deal of power and if you could get the element out of that and if you could put it in front of a parabola of some sort.
	You don't even have to get the element out.
	Do you have the ability to go on the net right there and have a look at this unit with me right now?
	Well, we've got a break coming up, so yes, of course, I have that ability.
	Have a look at this thing, because I've got a picture of the actual unit that they tore the side out and modified.
	And how long ago did this occur?
	Well, in the past couple of years.
	I can't give an exact date on it, but we've, you know, and that's just... What were the symptoms of the people that were exposed, and for what period of time were they exposed?
	Well, I don't know all the details of the exact event.
	I just have gotten most of it second-hand, so I don't know all the details.
	It was over time.
	These people just, you know, had a major fallout with these neighbors, and if I remember correctly, it had to do with they were trying to get them to move out because they wanted to take over their unit as well.
	They got physically ill?
	Physically ill, yeah.
	In some cases, you get cancer in the long run.
	That's pretty rough stuff.
	All right, hold it right there and we'll be right back after the news.
	I'm going to go take a look at that website.
	I suggest you do the same thing.
	And I suppose for those of you that don't need these kind of ideas, you might not want to be listening to this part tonight.
	Sweet dreams are made of this.
	Who am I to disagree?
	I travel the world and the seven seas Everybody's looking for something
	Some of them want to use you Don't you love her face?
	Don't you love her as she's walking out the door?
	Daddy Don't you love her face?
	Don't you love her as she's walking out the door?
	Like she did 1,000 times before Don't you love her ways
	Peace.
	Tell me what you say Don't you love her as she's walking out the door?
	All your love, all your love, all your love, all your love, all your love is gone.
	Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
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	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	This comes under the category of holy crap.
	I'm not kidding you.
	You're going to have to follow the same directions I did.
	And it's very simple.
	Go to the Coast to Coast AM website, alright?
	And click on Roger's link right there, if you would please.
	We've got it laid out for you under tonight's guest.
	Just click on his link and then go a little ways down his page and you'll see a sort of a flashing electronic harassment sign.
	And you click on that.
	All right?
	Follow along with me on this one because this is incredible stuff.
	And on the one hand, what you're about to see There's no question about it.
	Whoever did this, did it the right way.
	They've modified a microwave oven, and they have a horn antenna.
	What amounts to a horn antenna on it, which would be an effective antenna.
	Effective indeed, especially with, I don't know, 700, 800 watts of microwave.
	Now, on the one hand, I can see a lot of people out there might say, for God's sakes, don't show this to people.
	Because this is something you can, though you should not, try at home, of course.
	But as you go down, take a look at this microwave oven prepared virtually as a weapon.
	What does it say here?
	Here is a microwave oven that has been modified into an energy weapon.
	So there you have it, a weapon.
	Take a look so you just won't believe this.
	back to Roger Tolses in a moment.
	No doubt about it.
	This is scary stuff.
	Really scary stuff.
	But I'm opting on the side of, well, let's show it to everybody.
	I mean, you could be a victim of this.
	And it's not like it's not already on the Internet.
	Here it is on the Internet.
	So we're not telling anybody anything they couldn't find out anyway.
	But man, this is scary.
	This person took a microwave oven, modified it.
	It's got a horn antenna.
	And they, I guess, projected this toward their neighbors.
	That's the story, huh?
	Yeah, that's it.
	And if you notice the other device, there is an actual kit.
	I just reproduced the basic information for the kit for a microwave rifle, and that one has an output of 50,000 watts.
	50,000 watts.
	Do you know offhand what the effects of that would be?
	Well, once again, the effects would be in that list that I read originally.
	You know, you're going to find yourself with mental disorientation from a Headaches?
	You really would put this in the same category as you would cell phone exposure?
	No, no, this obviously is much worse.
	You might even remember this.
	Do you remember back around 1968 where our embassy in Russia was being bombarded by microwaves from across the street?
	The Soviets actually put large, powerful microwave units in a building across the street.
	They were radiating our employees there, and these people were getting dreadfully ill.
	They couldn't concentrate.
	They were sick to their stomachs.
	They had headaches.
	They were unable to function.
	And we brought our people in the intelligence community when they're with all the normal sweeping stuff.
	They went in with metal detectors and they went in with spectrum analyzers.
	They were looking for different things.
	And it wasn't until after a great deal of looking around that they started looking at that upper spectrum of of microwave and realize that the place was being bombarded by these weapons.
	They were literally being cooked alive.
	Well, they came down with cancer, a lot of these people.
	And, of course, cataracts and these other kind of problems that you run into.
	But, like I said, if you look down the page there, there's a little thing there on the symptoms of electronic radiation exposure.
	And, you know, the interesting part of the story here is that I get calls from people all over the country with this problem.
	Do you know, of course, you hear about people which are depicted as wackos all the time, saying, the phone company is radiating me!
	Right.
	My neighbor, sometimes maybe the neighbor is, huh?
	Well, that's right.
	Not only that, but you know, on this page right here, I have included the patent that was granted for microwave hearing.
	There is a technique whereby you can Fire pulse microwaves at a human being and have them hear sounds that come inside their head.
	And the whole complete patent is up here at the top section of this thing.
	I'm looking at a printout here because I don't have a screen right in front of me here.
	Oh, wait a minute.
	One of the symptoms is sexual stimulation?
	Yeah, that's just true.
	And you know, I have to tell you something.
	When I did the last show with George Norrie on this subject matter, My website took a quarter million hits and for the days that followed I had a hundred emails a day for almost three straight weeks from people that felt that they were victims of this.
	There you are.
	Of that percentage or just generally of the percentage that you get in your business how many actually percentage wise turn out to be indeed the victim of something of that sort?
	Well most of them Most of them have real problems.
	When we go there and we use our spectrum analyzing systems, and my analyzer goes up to 18 gigahertz, we normally find that these people are sitting right either on top of a cell site or online with some kind of T1 link, and that there are real microwave energies passing through their location.
	And of course, a lot of these people feel that they're a victim of government experimentation.
	Under Title 50, Chapter 32, Section 1520.
	Do you think they are?
	I think that a lot of these people are, because their story is the same, and they all have had a conflict with the government.
	They're whistleblowers, or there's somebody that has gotten into a situation where they were a drug dealer prior.
	There's a lot of people that have these kind of frictions, and it's apparent That some of these black ops development programs are spilling over onto the citizens.
	Well, that's a very serious charge.
	Well, you know, when the original Title 50, Chapter 32, Section 1520 originally said that the government, the Department of Defense and their contractors could do bioweapons experiments on citizens, With only 30 days notice to anybody in authority.
	That was the original law.
	I read it, yeah.
	And I went to see Barbara Boxer one day, and we became concerned about this, and I said, Barbara, why?
	You know, she's a state senator in California.
	Oh, yes.
	Why would legislators that have the safety and interest of their constituencies keep them from harm?
	I mean, that's the whole idea of having leadership to keep you out of having these kind of problems.
	Why would they pass a law that would allow Citizens to be guinea pigs for this kind of stuff.
	The bigger picture, Roger, that's why.
	In other words, if you're going to manufacture and design bio and electronic weapons, you have to have a way of testing them.
	And the bigger picture is that we're the only ones around to test on.
	You think that's a justification in your mind?
	No, I don't, Roger.
	I'm just saying that's what they would probably say if you could really get to somebody who would attempt to justify something like that at all.
	Well, when I brought it to Barbara's attention, she couldn't believe it.
	She said, I've never heard of this legislation.
	I'm going to go to the Department of Defense and I'm going to ask them.
	So she did.
	She wrote a letter, as a Senator, with that kind of power.
	Sure.
	And the Department of Defense, I've got a copy of the letter, wrote back, oh, we don't do that.
	They said, we don't do that.
	We don't do that.
	So, the interesting part is that law was repealed.
	1520 was repealed, and we said, wow, we really did something here.
	Then in the 1997 Military Appropriations Bill, a new one was passed.
	And they put through 1520A, which says that they can't do it to any civilian population without getting their permission, with the exception of any law enforcement purpose.
	Oh, gee.
	Well, that includes about everything.
	Including crowd control.
	So the question becomes, what happens if you have a Rodney King event, and you have an uprising?
	Can you then move the power level of all the cell sites, which are a gigantic matrix in the city, up to levels that would enable transmitting wave patterns that would cause people to be docile and unable to concentrate?
	Well, why limit it to that?
	Why can't you bring up a big A dark van that simply gets in the area of mass disturbance and begins to irradiate everybody to the point of confusion or to make them docile or whatever.
	Why do you have to worry about cell sites?
	Just dump the heavy stuff on them.
	Well, the cell sites are the in-place matrix that you don't need to put people at risk in vans.
	You just take the cell site, bring the power levels up to the levels necessary and saturate the area with Those frequencies, and keep in mind, like I said, I've got the patents right here for not only microwave hearing, which of course was issued in, I think it was 1991, and there was also patents that were issued for these biochips, which is a whole other little story right here.
	And by the way, I heard the fellow you had on last night, the nanotechnologist?
	Yes.
	Fascinating.
	Oh, yes, indeed.
	Fascinating.
	Talking about that interface.
	Yeah, and if you don't think there's going to be lots of applications for nanotechnology in the world of bugs and hearing and seeing devices... Well, we're going to get there just by substitution in the sense that as your part fails, they're going to put a new one in.
	I can see how it's going to go.
	You have worked for some pretty unusual people.
	You really worked for gangsters?
	Well, I've worked for a lot of people that were, let's just call them very organized organizations that had all different kinds of enterprises.
	Yes.
	And the nice thing about working with those kind of people is that they don't litigate, you know, they terminate.
	And, you know, I had some good advice years ago when I first started.
	I got invited to do some work for some people in Las Vegas by an older investigator because I was in my early 20s then.
	He said, you know, you're going to like working for these people because they're going to take a suitcase out with money in it and they're going to pay you what you want.
	Right.
	He said, just don't say to these people that you can do something that you can't do because you're going to end up out in the desert.
	Back in those days, it was pretty barren.
	He said, you're going to end up out there, face down.
	It was good advice.
	Oh, it was.
	There's a lot of lumps out there in the desert and they don't all just have dirt under them.
	My view of it has been that everybody's got a Fourth Amendment right.
	And if you hire me and you're not doing a criminal activity in my presence, then you've got a right to have your privacy checked.
	And hey, you need $100,000 worth of equipment to check your privacy.
	Well, in such a situation, you might well find yourself in an electronic countermeasures war with the FBI.
	Yeah, yeah.
	That has been an outcome along the way.
	Well, isn't that kind of difficult, touchy ground for you to be on?
	Well, yeah, it is.
	As a matter of fact, I did have one situation there that got a little heavy duty.
	But you know what happens is if there's a lawful warrant to wiretap somebody, I certainly don't want to interfere with it.
	You know, certainly I don't want to be charged with obstruction of justice, which in fact Could happen, right?
	The way it happens, yeah.
	So what has to happen is, and I've told those agencies before, you know, if you find that, you know, you've got surveillance on a place and you find me going there and you identify that I'm there, you know, just let me know and I will find a reason to bow out and get myself out of that situation.
	Well, if it were gangsters that had hired you, then wouldn't bowing out at such time Possibly bring on the termination part of the story.
	Yeah, I actually had to lay low for several months at one point when there was a certain amount of confusion going on.
	I see.
	I had to go out to the desert, kind of like where you are.
	Yes.
	And I had to lay low for an extended period of time until the confusion got cleared up.
	Was that some time ago?
	In the mid-eighties.
	It makes life interesting, I guess.
	Well, I was working for some people who were rather fascinating.
	You know, the amazing part was this individual had a card club, you know, the typical kind of card club.
	Sure.
	And he would have certain evenings when other organization people would come in.
	He would have the Russian people come over.
	He would have the Armenian people come over.
	He would have the African-American people come over.
	He would have the Italian people come over.
	And the amazing part was When these people got together, there was no racism.
	It always amazed me that these people, you know, it was business, these people were very serious business people, but they were very respectful of one another.
	Oh yes.
	And they sat there and played cards all night long for big bucks, never got mad at one another, they just kind of considered it business, and there was a lot of camaraderie, a lot of hugging, and I was totally amazed to be privy to see how well these organizations ended up having camaraderie And they could do business on a handshake.
	These people didn't make contracts with one another.
	These people shook hands and big things happened.
	Ah, gee, if we could only do that in the Middle East.
	Yeah, exactly.
	But it can be done.
	I've seen it going and, you know, of course, these people had tremendous enterprises.
	Well, you know, at one time, of course, the city that, which the lights I can see when I look out my window there, you look across the mountain here and you can see the lights of Las Vegas from my front porch.
	It's awe-inspiring.
	That city was, at one time, very organized.
	Yeah, I used to work there, and I tell you, it was fabulous.
	When those guys ran Vegas, Vegas was a kick.
	I mean, the food was free, the drinks were free, the shows were almost free, the rooms were for cheap.
	They took at the tables, and everything else was just the best.
	Well, not only that, but the streets of Las Vegas were calm, collected, and controlled.
	And people just didn't do things that they shouldn't be doing, because as you pointed out earlier, you could end up a lump in the desert.
	I mean, there was that kind of enforcement and, good word, organization.
	But those were the old days, and Las Vegas is a very new place now.
	And it's funny, because Howard Hughes was the guy that made the transition.
	I actually built the sound system for Howard Hughes' 16mm projector that went to the ninth floor of the Desert Inn in 1968, and right now I'm in touch with Jack Reel, an 89-year-old personal aide of Howard Hughes.
	I bet you he'd love to come on your show to tell you, because he was there during that whole All those years of the recluse times.
	Really?
	I would love to interview him.
	And he's with it.
	He's got a ton of stories.
	When I get on the phone with him, it's a good 35-40 minutes of how he used to do this and the time he flew there.
	He himself was an executive that procured a lot of jet aircraft for a lot of important people.
	As a matter of fact, he's on the board for where the Spruce Goose is up in Oregon.
	Oh, yes.
	Um, even cult leaders.
	There's a strange one.
	Yeah.
	Cult leaders.
	Well, I've been on both sides of the cult issue.
	I've been on the side where the cult, you know, kind of hire me because they've got the heat on and they want to make sure there's nothing's going, nothing's attacking them.
	Yes.
	And then I've been hired by journalists that have written stories about the people and have then been victimized.
	Oh, really?
	Yeah, now I'm not playing both sides.
	These are different events that took place at different times in a timeline of over a lot of years.
	But there was one particular religion that had their own security forces and, you know, I'm not going to name who it is, but they actually were very aggressive about harassing people that said anything about them.
	But you are a little like Paladin, you know, have electronics, will travel, right?
	Yeah, well, everybody's got a Fourth Amendment right.
	Wouldn't you agree?
	Well, yes.
	I certainly would.
	As long as they're not breaking the law, then in fact you're entitled to have somebody come in and tell you whether your Fourth Amendment privacy is intact.
	But again, so many people who would be concerned or worried about a bug or electronic surveillance or even something as serious as harassment, many of these people are worried with cause.
	It's because of what they're doing, right?
	Well, you know, you're a man that seems to embrace freedom and speak your mind and not be intimidated by the powers that be.
	But my sense is that you have some paranoia sitting somewhere.
	I do, a little bit, sure.
	As I say, though, the way I think I came to terms with it, Roger, was because of the fact that I've done talk shows and controversial ones, very controversial ones at that, sometimes about extremely sensitive things.
	That I just assume I'm listened to.
	I assume my emails are read.
	Right.
	Well, you know, you have a First Amendment right, and you use it, and I'm sure you believe that that's not something you want tampered with.
	No, indeed not.
	Absolutely not.
	But again, I think that certain people must make that assumption.
	Other people, I can reach out and hire you, and a lot of people have got a lot of money, I guess.
	Millionaires, it says, have reached out.
	Don't kid yourself, the wealthiest people are the ones that want to make sure they've got the privacy.
	They may put money to make sure that your privacy gets legislated out of the way, but take it from me, these people that are in the top, that are pulling the strings, including Howard Hughes, because he used to have his phone swept there on the top of the Desert Inn, all those people They definitely want to make sure that their information and their acts and their strategies are unheard by anybody.
	All right.
	Hold it right there, Roger.
	Roger Polsis is my guest, and he is an expert at bugs.
	Both sides of that fence, really, to be honest with you.
	Fascinating, fascinating man who does a fascinating thing.
	I'm Art Bell and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	I'm in the middle of a dry spell, Jimmy Rogers on the victrola up high.
	I was dancing, baby, on a shoulder.
	I'm a woman, I'm a woman, I'm a woman, I'm a woman.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
	And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	To reach out on the toll free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them
	dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
	Life really is a kick, isn't it?
	In a moment, I'll tell you something my wife just told me.
	Something I didn't know about her.
	Or maybe I did.
	stay right there long ago and a land about sixty five miles to uh... my east
	that would be los angeles uh... my wife uh... actually dealt blackjack in one of the
	big casinos in las vegas
	And this was a period of time prior to the change of Las Vegas from its organized state to its New image, let's put it that way.
	And she said, you know, what Howard Hughes did made Maude look like Pikers.
	Bringing the change about in Las Vegas.
	Well, that happened because Hughes refused to show up for a license show.
	The man was a recluse.
	He wouldn't come.
	Down to, you know, prior to that, all those gambling licenses had to be for particular individuals that were willing to go in front of the Gaming Commission.
	Oh, indeed.
	And he's the first guy to pull it off, say, well, yeah, just give it to Hughes Corporation, give the license to the corporation.
	Of course, he had enough money to juice everybody up, and everybody, you know, he was coming in, he just got, he just sold TWA for $500 million.
	He went down on the strip and bought everything, five hotels.
	They saw the money flow and the legitimacy and that was it.
	They put the corporation name on it and that started the flow.
	Absolutely fascinating history.
	I would love indeed to interview the person you were talking about.
	It's just great to get these people while they're still here.
	He was here the night that Howard died down in Bermuda as well.
	Oh, I'd love to interview him.
	So yes, let's arrange that.
	In the meantime, let's talk for a second about, and I know people want to know about this, how do they recognize if they are a victim of harassment or something even less?
	I mean, even your phone's tapped.
	Is there any real way to know Roger, are you the guy?
	I mean, do you have to call Roger to know, or what?
	Yeah, well, that's it.
	You know, if you don't have $100,000 worth of gear and somebody that knows how to operate them with the proper experience to look at things like radar charts.
	You know, we use time-domain reflectometry, which is a radar system that radars telephone cables and shoots pulses down the cable.
	And as those pulses go down and they hit the impedances of the different terminal blocks, they send back reflections.
	And all those things kind of look like a heartbeat cardiogram that you get from a heartbeat doctor.
	And, you know, those are the things I've looked at 25,000 charts and like any heartbeat or cardiac doctor, I can tell you what part of the valve isn't working right, you know, or whether the aorta isn't pumping.
	And, you know, it's just a matter of this whole business that I'm in is wave interpretation.
	It's wave pattern recognition.
	Let me tell you an interesting story.
	Maybe you can help me out here.
	This happened to me, so it's an easy story to tell.
	Here, in order to accomplish the program, to get the program from point A to point B, we have a KU Band Up link in my backyard, which transmits the program up and then, you know, to L.A.
	and then all the world, right?
	So I've got that.
	Then I also have internet here from a very good local company that provides microwave internet.
	That's how I get my internet.
	It comes by microwave.
	And I supply a tower to retransmit it from here.
	So I've got that.
	And one night, Roger, I was on the air.
	Now, keep in mind I live pretty close to Area 51.
	And the network began to lose me.
	So I ran into the next room, you know, in an emergency situation, and I looked at the uplink, and I could see the received signal from, at that time, Oregon, was falling steadily down past the point where it would work.
	In other words, it got so low that we lost lock.
	And then my signal back to them was falling at the same rate.
	Now check this out, Roger.
	That night, a microwave Blanket of some sort descended on this valley, and this company has nine towers scattered around the valley that transmit 2.4 gigs of internet.
	They chart everything, so they've got little charts on every one of the receivers and transmitters, so they can see the amount of bandwidth that's going.
	And at the exact time that my uplink failed, every single one of the transmitters and retransmitters also failed.
	A program we were recording on satellite television stopped recording.
	It just went blank.
	In other words, some god-forsaken gigantic electromagnetic blanket of some sort descended on this valley for about a half an hour.
	Well, those guys in the electronic countermeasures plane that was up there just testing their stuff and having fun are saying, Hey, Art Bell!
	You think so?
	Man, did we jam that dude out or what?
	Hey, what do you think they do with those aircraft?
	You think they just fly them over the ocean?
	You gotta have some signals to work with, man.
	Yeah.
	Sure.
	Sure, and those guys are a bunch of young, smart guys, and those aircraft are awesome.
	I mean, they pick up waves.
	You shoot a wave at them, and they've got computers that will analyze that wave in microseconds and synthesize something to beam right back at you that's going to turn your stuff into mush.
	Well, I have been told that I cause the threat receivers of like the F-16s that go over our house frequently and other military aircraft which are just all over the place.
	I actually cause the threat receivers to come on, which I've always worried about because if somebody should hit the pickle at the wrong moment, I'm toast.
	Well, I put my money on that one.
	I don't know if you've met some of these retired spooks, but they've got a great sense of humor.
	Actually, you're right.
	They're totally cool people, and I have a lot of connections with a lot of people that were into a lot of heavy things, but they are some of the most fun people.
	Well, I know they are, and I know they have senses of humor, and every now and then I see these large, down the street, well, in my town, let's put it that way, in my town there are two houses of Actual repute, because it's legal here.
	Right.
	And I've seen large helicopters, that could only be military helicopters, landing down there.
	Secret mission.
	Yeah, secret mission.
	They're just like the rest of us, and that includes a sense of humor and sex drive.
	Before I forget about it, I want to throw this one out there, see if anybody knows about it.
	I have a harassment victim And she went away from her car, and when she came back to her car, somebody had left a red baseball cap.
	And I've got pictures of this baseball cap now, because we visited and looked at it firsthand.
	On the back of the cap is embroidered, We Deny That We Exist.
	And on the front of the cap is a man's profile, with the top half of his head hinged and flipped open, with a microwave antenna sticking out of his skull.
	And what was this lady's problem?
	Well, she is a victim of electronic harassment.
	And sometimes these people get direct contacts.
	And this particular one, I'm just wondering if anybody out there knows anything about it.
	If they do, email me at info at bugsweeps.com.
	Oh, this is a current thing?
	Yeah, this happened only about a month or two ago.
	I just recently, in the past week, got a chance to look at it and photograph it with my digital camera.
	Embroidered on the back it says, We Deny We Exist.
	And on the front is a man's profile of a cartoon human being with the top half of his head flipped open with like a Yagi sticking out.
	Well, of course, I mean, such a thing could be a joke, but I suppose when you connect it with somebody who's actually being harassed, then it's not such a joke.
	Yeah, she's not laughing.
	Well, how do people contact you through your webpage?
	Well, normally people will Just run the keyword electronic harassment through Google or one of the other engines.
	You don't have anything cute like 1-800-CRUSH-BUGS or anything?
	No, no, bugsweeps.com.
	But, you know, if you run keywords, we have a website that also covers the whole history of bug sweeping.
	As an example, I wanted to tell you we were talking about interfering with the federal wiretaps.
	There was a historical guy in my business named Bernard Spindel.
	And if you go into my website in the historical section, I've got the original Life Magazine article where they went out with him as he planted bugs.
	Because in those days, you could plant bugs.
	It's a 1964 article.
	There was no law against it.
	And in his book, he talks about how he's sweeping for Jimmy Hoffa.
	And Jimmy Hoffa would sneak him into his hotels in laundry, in a laundry basket with his equipment.
	And Spindell would go up into the hotel room with Hoffa, and he'd tune in The FBI surveillance, you know, the FBI was watching Hoffa all the time.
	I'm sure.
	And he would tune in, and there's pictures of him and his, I've got pictures of him and his early equipment, there's a whole, pictures of his 50s equipment there, it's wonderful.
	And he would tune in, the Feds, and the Feds would be radioing back and forth, boingy, they'd be singing on there, they'd be boingy, boingy, boingy, do you hear us?
	Because they knew he was a specialist in this kind of stuff.
	But he was listening, it was funny, so it was a real cat and mouse kind of thing.
	A great little piece of history, bug sweeping history.
	What do you know about implants?
	Let's open that door and ask about it.
	Well, you know, there's pictures there in that harassment page and also there's the patent for the implant whereby if they put this thing in you, the GPS system tracks you.
	And that's the Personal Tracking Recovery System, the United States patent.
	I put the link there to the patent.
	It's an apparatus for tracking and recovering human beings.
	I can see why.
	use usual utilizes an implantable transceiver so this is not sci-fi that was granted in ninety seven by
	the government's or i can see why
	i recently read a book about somebody who had a uh... as managed to actually
	get a meeting with osama bin laden and of course they implanted such an exactly such an adobe
	device in him uh... to find out where uh... bin laden actually was
	And they took him through a maze, but this thing tracked him the whole way.
	Unfortunately, in the book, they discovered it, and there was a rather crude on-the-spot operation, and it was removed.
	Well, the unhappy part of this story is that I've tested people that have him that don't know where they got him.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	Some of them went for elective surgery, and other people just have time missing.
	Time or those seem very separate things to me and on the one hand I understand
	During the process of electric surgery they could certainly slip something in you
	How does that cross the line to missing time well?
	I had one guy that had missing time and he came back And he said you know I had a little slice in my vein in the
	lower part Oh, oh
	And I don't know what you're familiar with a surgery where they put a catheter up your legs for people as an example
	that need A stent in their neck because their arteries are closing
	yes to their brain, and they actually Thread this thing up through your veins and pass your heart
	up into your neck Retube you.
	Exactly.
	Well, this fellow, he told me that the way he received his implant was through that technique.
	Okay, so we have implants that can track you.
	There would be understandable government uses for those, but what do you think as far as people receiving implants they don't want?
	Most people do.
	If you see the Safe Medical Devices Act, which became law in 1990, it requires the U.S.
	manufacturers of implants and medical devices to adopt a method for identifying and tracking their product.
	Permanently implanted in humans.
	So there are chips in these devices now so that they can scan them and get serial numbers and know when they were manufactured.
	So those, you know, those breast implants and pacemakers and replacement heart valves and prosthetic devices now, a lot of them have chips in them.
	Breast implants?
	That's it.
	And nobody asks you permission.
	It's the law.
	Safe Medical Devices Act.
	Boy, there's an awful lot of secrets that are told to breasts.
	Well, that's right.
	It's like the old Olive and the Martini, that famous bug.
	Remember that famous bug that's on my website as well?
	Is it really?
	Yeah, there's pictures of it.
	That was a famous guy up in San Francisco, the famous PI that put that together.
	But you know, a lot of that is actually now as wild, even as it seems to consider now, that's old stuff.
	Yeah, but back in those days, when you consider in the 60s, you know, these people were there.
	I've got pictures of some of the original bug makers using the, you know, the new transistors.
	Yes.
	And sticking together stuff that's pretty small.
	That actually is small for its day.
	It wasn't quite microchip size, but it was pretty, pretty creative stuff.
	You know, they put all kinds of bugs in wall sockets using carrier current where they, you know, put a microphone in a wall socket and then take the room audio out riding on the electricity.
	Sure.
	All you gotta be is on the same side of the step-down transformer and you can be in the neighborhood listening to your neighbors.
	Have you heard of broadband over power lines, Roger?
	Yes.
	You know what that is?
	Yeah.
	Broadband over power lines is a plan to turn to the horror, I might add, of ham radio operators all the electric lines of the United States into carriers of the Internet.
	So that anybody in their home can just plug into the wall, and when they plug their computer into the wall, they're connected to the Internet.
	It sounds wonderful, but it is going to produce horrendous interference across the radio spectrum, and there's a giant fight now going on about whether it should be allowed or not.
	But if you have high-speed Internet coming into every single home in America, imagine the possibilities of whether you've subscribed or not Roger.
	Once you put high-speed access everywhere, then all you need is a little teeny-weeny camera, or the teeny-weeny microphone, and a little teeny-weeny circuit, and you plug it into the wall, and that's it, baby.
	1984, George Orwell was a true prophet.
	And if you read 1984, you'll find the justification of Big Brother was that there was some evil force, an evildoer out there, somebody that wants to get us, that everybody needs to sacrifice their privacy for so that we will not be overcome by this dark force.
	Everybody in America ought to re-read 1984 because this man was a prophet.
	And how far along in that process do you think we are now?
	Barry, we're getting very close with computer surveillance.
	I've got to tell you what else happened at this pre-I show.
	There was a company there selling database information.
	And the lady that was there representing the company had a PC there and she was running information for people just to show how great it worked.
	I sat down with her and said, run the name of my company.
	So she ran the name of my company.
	As she went through the database stages, she came up with my personal home address, my social security number, but get this, she came up with the tenants of my office building that were not me just by running my office building and she came up with their social security numbers as well.
	People unrelated to my business but just occupied the same office building was in this database.
	I called the guy up, I said, is this your social security number?
	He said, yeah, where'd you get it?
	I said, I just got it off a database thing here where it would have been a 25 cent cost.
	In other words, they do each search for a quarter.
	Yeah, no kidding.
	I go on and I give you your social with a connection like this.
	All I had to run is the name of your company.
	The databases are frightening.
	Well, they are.
	And when you look at TV commercials now, there's one about identity theft that's kind of cute, where this old lady's laughing about this wonderful car she got because she stole somebody's identity.
	And, I mean, once you've got a person's social security number, and maybe then you get their credit card number, their date of birth, I mean, how much do you need before you can steal a person's life?
	Not much.
	Not much, and it's a horrible, crushing thing to happen to people who really talk about a major headache and a paper blizzard that's necessary to repair it.
	It's terrible.
	And it sounds just like a cooked up excuse, you know?
	Somebody's stolen my identity, they've stolen my money, they've stolen my life.
	And you'll be looked at like you're a criminal.
	Yeah.
	And so then, are the defenses currently in place?
	Sufficient to the threat posed with regard to identity theft?
	Definitely not.
	No, huh?
	No, they do it by numbers anyway.
	The banks, they expect to have a certain element of losses.
	You know, to them it's just the cost of doing business.
	But the people that get crushed and whose credit reports go south and their credit becomes destroyed, I mean, they're the real victims.
	Oh, yes.
	Yeah, so we need to develop much better defenses against this sort of thing, and it seems like the other side is winning.
	In other words, technology is moving much faster than people like yourself who might be in place to prevent this kind of thing.
	Well, I'm not there to prevent it, I'm there to identify when it's taking place.
	Ah, that's true.
	In other words, you can't actually act.
	Well, let me ask you this, Roger.
	How many times do you discover a microphone or surveillance or something illegal and then get to go to the authorities yourself and say, okay, look, here's what we've got here?
	Well, we discover things around 15% of the time, although it's going up with these covert cameras.
	They're turning up a lot.
	My point is, do you get to go to the authorities and the police and say, hey, follow the leads, here's somebody whose privacy has been violated, or how do you handle it?
	Well, the way we handle it is we meet with the legal counsel of the victim, and the legal counsel at that point steps in.
	We provide photographic evidence and written affidavits about the fine and all that.
	We allow them to go forward with what they decide to do, because in some cases They decide to leave the listening device in place and send it bad information for a period of time.
	Well, that's karmic for the person on the other end, isn't it?
	Yeah.
	It's a choice.
	Well, I can see that.
	I mean, bad information thought to be good is every bit as good as what the person was trying to do to you.
	Right?
	Okay, hold on, Roger.
	We will open the phones in the next hour, and I know there's going to be a million questions out there, as there should be for a guest of this caliber.
	We do, after all, live in a different day and age.
	So, 1984 was prophecy, I guess it was, wasn't it?
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	I don't want a lonely mansion with a deer in every room.
	All I want's the love you promised beneath the hallowed moon.
	But you think I should be happy with your money and your name. And hide myself in sorrow while you play your
	cheating game.
	Silver threads and golden needles fill a man that's part of mine.
	And I dare not drown my sorrow in the world of otherwise But you think I should be happy with your money and your name And hide myself in sorrow while you play your cheatin' game To recharge Bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
	1-800-825-5033. First time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222 or use the wildcard line
	at 1-775-727-1295. To recharge on the toll free international line, call your AT&T operator
	and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
	Oh, it's a wild, wild world we live in, ladies and gentlemen.
	Tonight's show certainly proves that.
	Roger Tulsis is my guest.
	He's in the bug business.
	It's totally fascinating stuff, so...
	Sit back, we've got another hour and your questions coming right up.
	Roger, do you like your work?
	You know Art, I meet the most incredible people.
	You wouldn't believe it.
	I mean, I meet some of the most powerful people.
	Some of the most interesting entertainers.
	I mean, sometimes I'm sitting here in the morning reading the newspaper, and I go, wow, look at this event.
	And next thing I know, I get the phone rings, and I'm smack right in the middle of it.
	Incidentally, you mentioned entertainers.
	I can understand gangsters.
	I can understand, I don't know, co-leaders even, politicians, doctors, lawyers, real estate moguls, all these different gamblers, oh, for sure.
	But you know what?
	Uh, why celebrities?
	I mean, uh, is it, uh, paparazzi?
	Really?
	Oh yeah.
	Oh yeah.
	Matter of fact, I had one case where I had this, uh, very wealthy, uh, man call me from Palm Springs.
	He said, Oh my God, they've made a tape of me and my girlfriend making love.
	And, uh, I said, well, who's your girlfriend?
	He says, well, she's his famous movie star.
	Oh man.
	He said, and not only that, But what happened was the people that made this tape took the tape and put it in a box and put it on her front doorstep and rang the doorbell.
	And when she opened it up she played the tape and here she is making love.
	So I went out to this extremely expensive hilltop mansion out there and this guy plays the tape for me and believe me, you immediately know what star it was and she is a screamer.
	I mean, this tape was one spicy meatball.
	At any rate, what we determined by listening to the tape is that the tape was somebody snuck a voice-activated tape machine into the room.
	I could tell it wasn't modulated like a transmitter would have caused an FM transmitter.
	Sure.
	We swept the place out.
	We figured it was a dropped recorder.
	I took the tape back to Hollywood to give to my friend Norm Pearl.
	He actually worked on Watergate tapes as well.
	He's since passed on to the spirit world.
	He's a wonderful guy.
	Anyway, to make a long story short, I get this phone call about four hours later.
	The client calls me up.
	He says, oh my God, she called the President.
	The FBI is on its way to your house, over there where you are, to pick up the tapes.
	Sure enough, the doorbell rings about two hours later.
	Great looking FBI agent lady in a suit.
	puts her identification through the door and I said, okay.
	She gave me a receipt for the tape and that's the last I saw of it.
	She did.
	The star called the president and things happened.
	No kidding.
	Well, that is how the world works, isn't it?
	Yeah.
	Alright, well obviously a lot of people are going to have questions for you and I've got
	them gathered up in a row here.
	One never knows when one goes to the phone.
	But, here we go.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Roger.
	Hello.
	Yes, hello.
	Yes, I'd like to make a comment.
	I think that what Roger had to say tonight was very, very important.
	A lot of people don't realize how important Several months back, I went to two lectures, and one was by a former LAPD investigator whose whole family was CIA, FBI.
	They totally had clearance.
	The other one was a man who was, for nine years, the head of the FBI offices in Los Angeles, and for seven years, the head of the FBI offices in Dallas.
	And what Roger had to say is totally true.
	It is so important for us to not give up our Bill of Rights.
	And a lot of these laws are being put in place similar to the way they happened in Nazi Germany.
	The population gets behind it because they are propagandized into believing that there's a terrible threat, and you have to give up your personal freedoms in order to protect yourself, and then in moves a totalitarian regime.
	And what these gentlemen brought out was that it is a plan To segregate wealth and have total power in order to continue doing it.
	Okay, well I wouldn't know about the motivation behind it, but I suppose power and money, like everything else.
	Well, the man that was the LAPD investigator for many years put together his report according to the formula that he had to use when he was putting together I don't think we are.
	We're going to omit that, thank you.
	names, dates, and places. First time callers, area code 775-727-1222.
	FBI. Do the wild thing at 775-727-1295. I don't think we are. We're going to omit
	that, thank you. But, I would like, Roger, to ask you whether you think that this is an
	irreversible road to the future and whether you think that this is an irreversible road
	that we're now going down.
	That our freedoms will end up being totally eroded at some point because of the perceived or real threat.
	I don't know.
	I mean, I do.
	There is a threat to this country, Roger.
	There's no question about that.
	There is.
	Do you think there's some grand conspiracy to make that threat into more than it is, or to use it to actually turn America into a totalitarian type state?
	Well, I think there is a general New World Order plan where the international corporations will get rid of individual governments and constitutions and try to regulate everything from a corporate status.
	But in this country, The power for the government is derived from the people, and the people need to wake up and remember that that's the case, and that these people are their public servants, and they just better get with making sure that these freedoms aren't crushed.
	You know, I guess I'm old-fashioned in that I still believe that most Americans have American values, and that may be very naive, and I know I'll get a million emails, but even most government agents and people in elected positions, the majority of them really do I think they're forwarding those values and it's hard to believe there's some master plan to turn this into another, you know, Iraq before we got there.
	Well, you know, the key is to watch the corporations because they're the ones that are trying to internationalize their control and they really don't care whether people are employed in America or not as long as they can get the people in the world to work at the bottom pay and as a consequence our economy is suffering and so it's a
	global thinking that their intent is to
	to regulate things on a global basis I think that's fair to say. Well that little slice of
	commerce that you just used as an example isn't that a natural process underway Roger
	in other words if you can get widgets made for
	two dollars instead of ten dollars because you're getting them made in Hong Kong or up
	in Red China or Japan or whatever then you're gonna do business is
	gonna seek What country does your grandchildren live in?
	Freedom also applies to people making decisions about taking their business to Hong Kong and that sort of thing, too.
	So that's part of the freedom argument, too.
	Well, once again, you know, I think that we all need to think about six generations ahead, like the Native Americans do.
	We're next quarter thinkers.
	I understand that.
	Next quarter.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Roger Tulsis.
	Hi.
	Yes, good morning, Art.
	Good morning, Roger.
	Very interesting program.
	Oh, yes.
	I'm reminded of Marshall McLuhan's late 1960 essay, The Death of Privacy, with the advent of the automated banking machine, and how the technology has really accelerated this My question is, I guess, a very basic one.
	I had purchased a video camera detector at a very big electronics chain for under $50, and it's called a P3 unit.
	And where I lived in New York... Let's be straight on what we mean.
	You went and bought something to detect the presence of one of these 2.4 gigahertz video cameras.
	Correct.
	It's about the size of a Ronson butane lighter, and it was under $50.
	It's made in Taiwan.
	It's called a P3, and it's rather interesting because where I'm living in Brooklyn, as are many of my friends, the houses are very old, well over 100 years.
	In a sense, when we tried it in the different apartments, we got all sorts of interesting readings indicating that there was a presence of either an electronic eavesdropping device or a video camera. But I was mentioning that when these
	buildings were built, there wasn't really electricity and different things. So there's been a
	lot of additions made to the structures of the buildings and things, especially with
	phone lines, electric lines and things.
	And I was wondering what your guest thinks of the quality of that type of unit, or is
	it just sort of not very precise.
	Picks up a lot.
	They're not very precise.
	They're basically simple field strength meters, but the problem you're up against is that the 802.11 protocol... Also on 2.4.
	Yeah, the Wi-Fi protocol, and it's everywhere.
	When you run a NetSniffer, you'll find that there could be 10, 15 access points in your neighborhood, and that's all 2.4.
	Anybody running a microwave oven is 2.4, and anybody running a cordless phone is 2.4.
	They're all tripping.
	Yeah.
	It's getting to the point, to be honest with you, where, for example, if you buy a 2.4 phone and you bring it home and you get your internet, as I do, by 2.4, you quickly realize the moment you pick up your telephone, your internet dies.
	These services are getting so prolific, they're interfering with each other.
	And so I was about to ask you about the electronic battlefield of interference that must be out there right now.
	Well, it's electronic smog in my sense of it is.
	Right.
	And I don't use any transmission 2.4 in my home because I don't want my brain messed with.
	Okay, but still, when you go into an environment, tell me how you delineate between microwave ovens, microwave internet, Telephones, wireless television transmitters on 2.4, how do you dig through all of that mush to find whether there's really a bug?
	Well, I put it up on the surveillance receiver and I look at the modulation format of the wave pattern.
	Right.
	Once again, my business is a matter of wave pattern recognition, so I look for the modulation formats.
	802.11 is a frequency hopping Wave pattern with a million little dots.
	So you know it instantly when you see it?
	I know the flavor for sure.
	And so then you can go into an environment, and so the answer to this question then, the little device he has is just sort of a totally general, let's go find some 2.4 radiation, even if it's from the microwave oven kind of deal.
	Yeah, if he's within two or three feet of the camera, he may get a good reading.
	I mean, he may go over the top and he may have it, but if he's If he's reading it all the time, then you're picking up a lot of other stuff.
	If you run a sniffer on 802.11, you'll generally have, in a city, about five or six access points come up.
	They're all there.
	So if he were, for example, sniffing along his wall, and that little device that he had went nuts and over the top, then, of course, he might have reason to believe that, Something's localized, and right here in my wall, right?
	Yeah, he might tear his wallet for no reason.
	I've seen people do it.
	They call me and ask me why, and I say, well, you know, my machine's a $32,000 one, and your machine's a $50 one.
	Well, that's the diff.
	Okie dokie.
	West of the Rockies, you're on air with Roger Tolses.
	Hi.
	Hello?
	Yes, hello.
	Oh, hi.
	I've been recorded since I was, I don't know, quite little.
	part was due to my father's doing in part, still by association on my part and also things
	I was into.
	No, no, no, wait, what do you mean recorded?
	Well, there was, I forget what it's called, it was used during World War II, something
	boxed, it was called something boxed.
	I've had lots of dealings with the higher ups in different levels and the part was because
	I used to screw with them too.
	Like sometimes I'd send them pizzas to their, you know, where they were at.
	I'd put them on my credit card.
	Are you saying your father was in a business that brought this kind of thing on?
	Don't tell me, I guess, what he was doing, but some business or whatever.
	A couple times.
	Yeah, and he wanted to bug out of it.
	He's passed away now, but then they set up a sting operation.
	So, I mean, everything that basically he was into, I think, you know, they worked for the government.
	I know my aunt and uncle do.
	They did a lot of the testing for their psychiatrists, and they did a lot of the drug testing in the fifties with LSD and stuff, and they still deny doing that.
	Well, okay.
	I guess that this kind of thing has been going on forever, ever since we've had the capability of doing it.
	It's just that in this modern day and age, it's an awful lot easier, and so Really, Roger, other than physical symptoms, for example, as awful as that would be, other than calling someone like you, there's no way to know if you're bugged, is there?
	Yeah, if it's done properly, it's pretty silent and pretty deadly.
	So, you do a lot of traveling, I bet, don't you?
	Yeah, we do.
	We can't get on aircraft anymore because they look at the equipment, they flip out.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	So you have to travel by what, train?
	No, we just travel by motor vehicle.
	By motor vehicle.
	Wow.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Roger Tolses.
	Hi.
	Hi Art and Roger.
	How are you?
	Fine.
	Good.
	Roger, this is Dave from Nevada.
	I sent you that videotape.
	Yes.
	You have my permission to tell Art about that.
	Why don't you go ahead and explain it to him and I'll just verify whatever you want to say about it.
	Sure.
	I've been having an electronic harassment problem with my neighbors and I was actually able to record it.
	What happened was I had been getting woke up with what felt like a shock.
	Really?
	So what I did is I wanted to find out what was waking me up.
	I'm a little bit nervous.
	That's all right.
	Just relax.
	Take a deep breath.
	I wanted to find out what was waking me up, so I set up a camcorder with the light on me, and I was fully clothed and everything, and that's what I was able to film, was videotape, was these shocking sensations and these outrageous body convulsions that I've been going through and that I've been experiencing.
	Okay, and so you had a videotape of yourself convulsing?
	Well, it shows like an electrical shot.
	This is done over a period of a few weeks.
	What I did is I videotaped myself and I simply fast-forwarded to when I woke up and then went into real-time mode to see what woke me up.
	That's what I was able to videotape.
	Now, I'm fully employed.
	I work 11-hour days.
	My house sits on over half an acre.
	And I know where it's coming from, but I don't have the money to hire the expertise that Roger has or hire his services.
	I would like to, but I'm looking for somebody who would like to expose this, because I have probably 30 videotapes showing this evidence that Roger has.
	But do you have evidence that goes beyond your Convulsing or something like that.
	In other words, can you rule out a physiological explanation for what's happening to you?
	What happened is, as Roger was telling you, one of the symptoms is a regular heartbeat.
	So what happened to me one time, after this started, the more extreme ones that I sent to him happened to me about three times one night.
	So I went down to the VA hospital because I thought I was having a heart attack or something.
	So they did a complete blood work on me and everything, and everything is normal.
	I sent Roger a copy of that.
	Alright, Roger, so you got a copy of this tape from this man.
	Do you recall reviewing that?
	Yes, I did.
	And I've passed it on to some medical people that I know for them to evaluate it from a medical standpoint.
	Well, that was my first question, that you would eliminate that.
	Yeah, I'm waiting to hear what they have to say about it, and that's where it stands Suppose they say, well, okay, we don't think it's medical.
	It does seem like it's external.
	How would you begin to go about investigating, assuming he had the funds, what was happening to him?
	Yeah, we'd actually have to bring all that equipment into that location and hope that the phenomenon took place and make readings real time.
	Boy, it's almost like conducting some sort of paranormal investigation.
	That's really strange stuff.
	Very close.
	That's really something.
	All right, Roger, hold tight.
	We'll do some more telephones and talk to you a little more about this wild business you're in.
	And it is a wild business, isn't it?
	For a wild world.
	Incredible stuff.
	And it's all right here on Coast to Coast AM.
	Roaring through the night time like a freight train.
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	The sight of a touch, or the scent of a sand, or the strength of an oak when it moves deep in the ground.
	The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
	Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing.
	To lie in a meadow and hear the grasslings And all these things in our memories soar
	And they use them to help us to fly Fly, fly, my sweet soul
	Take this place on this trip Just for me
	Fly, take a flight Take my heart up by the sea
	It's for free Wanna take a ride?
	Well, call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
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	Bye.
	And to reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
	Roger Tolson's tearing it up tonight.
	We're talking about bugs.
	That's right.
	The ability to listen to you.
	To see you, perhaps at your most private moments, the ability to electronically harass you or even make you sick.
	These are incredible things for an incredible world we live in now.
	We'll get right back to it.
	Hey Roger, you know those corporations we were talking about a little while ago?
	It seems to me they would perhaps have more need of, or as much need, no, more need of your services than might the average private individual.
	I mean, corporations, oh, they have secrets.
	Yeah, they do.
	They have competitors, and they get to be mortal enemies at times, so you must do a lot of work for those corporations.
	Yeah, I do, and you know, I just regard them as any other person having a Fourth Amendment right, and we provide services to them, and Do just a competent job as we do for an individual.
	Uh-huh.
	Percentage-wise, how much work is done for individuals versus corporations in your business?
	50-50.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	Really?
	That's very interesting.
	All right.
	Let's go back to it.
	First-time caller line, you're on the air with Roger Tolses.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Hello, Roger.
	It's a pleasure to chat with you, too.
	Thank you.
	Listen, I'd like to ask Roger a question, but real briefly, I'd like to say, first of all, Roger, I want to thank you for making the statement that you did regarding the evolution towards a one-world government, because I happen to share that view.
	And I'd like to bring to both your attention an art, in case you're not already aware of the gentleman.
	A gentleman by the name of Gary Kaugh, last name is spelled K-A-H.
	He's a former trade specialist with the state of Indiana, and he has traveled all around the world.
	And through his career, he learned about organizations that are promoting exactly that.
	He's authored several books and he's been speaking publicly about it for well over a decade.
	Okay.
	The one question I'd like to ask you, Roger, and let me say up front that if you can't answer this, I will respect that, but I would like to know that during the course of your company's processes of protecting your clients and providing your security services, have there ever been occasions when law enforcement agencies and or government officials have Abused their power and authority and intimidated you to stop investigations that were perfectly legal for both your client as well as your company.
	That's a good question.
	Well, yeah, I've been thrown in jail and had my bail set at a million dollars.
	Does that sound like enough intimidation?
	Yeah, it does.
	I've been there, done that.
	They kicked the door in on my office and confiscated all my equipment.
	Oh, gee.
	So how does that kind of answer the question?
	Um, yes.
	How did it all come out for you?
	Well, what happened was the wiretaps that I had discovered were actually illegal.
	They didn't have warrants for them and they figured they'd just kick your butt.
	They'd blast me and that would take care of it.
	But then once they realized that I had the evidence of, you know, we call them wildcats when there's a tap that's been put on by agents that didn't have a warrant.
	So when the Wildcats became apparent, all of a sudden they decided, well, he's an OK guy.
	We're sorry.
	Yeah.
	And then I kind of just walked away from it.
	Like a Mexican standoff.
	Well, all right.
	But in your business, Roger, there have got to be times when you conclude the possibility that you might not walk away.
	Well, you know, same thing for Art Bell, taking on the heavy stuff he does.
	But he does it night after night because he's got that kind of spirit that's not intimidated.
	Well, you're right.
	You and I are on the same page, buddy.
	We're not that far off.
	Maybe not.
	Wild Card Line, you're on air with Roger Tolses.
	Hi.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	Speak up good and loud for us.
	You're not too loud.
	Roger, I was an ECM man.
	in the service, kind of flew around in those bombers.
	I know about the microwave antennas, I was cooked by it myself while I was in the service.
	It's no fun.
	Anyhow, and I'm suffering today from internal cooking, and there's no, I have a Simpson
	wand that I use around to make sure that I'm not in direct contact with any microwave.
	You know what I'm talking about.
	Yeah, that's kind of a field strength meter though, so you're going to have some sensitivity problems with getting accurate measurements.
	But still, what he said, he said he's been cooked.
	And in fact, it's crude.
	But that is, in fact, what happens to you.
	For example, the example of the microwave that you gave earlier.
	That cooks meat when it's cooking meat.
	It heats coffee, and if it's aimed at you, it slowly cooks you.
	That's crude, but it's accurate, isn't it?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, that's accurate.
	It cooks you.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Roger Tulsis.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Can you hear me?
	I'd like to bring together two or three points.
	One, about cancer being caused by of food that are things that we drink, say like mercury in
	water and some other things, things that we consume that would
	act as a storage mechanism of radiation in our body to cause
	cancer, like radiated foods, is that a threat?
	And number two, these body implants, these tracking devices like Whitley Striever had in, and I don't know if you know
	about that or not, Art had a doctor on there that took out, At least last I heard eight of these implants.
	Oh yes.
	And I wonder if you investigate that and how much would it cost to find out if one had been implanted in you?
	I was in a hospital last year and they had a stent put in me to put dye in my body to see if I had heart trouble.
	And I got to put one of those things on a body and are they having hospitals to do these things to people when they're without their knowing it?
	Alright, well that's a lot.
	Hold on.
	Alright, well, with regard to people receiving involuntary implants, how widespread do you suppose that might be, Roger, and could there be some... I see about five people a month that want to be checked for that.
	Really?
	Five people a month?
	Oh my.
	How much would you charge if somebody like that man came to you and said, look I really do want to know if something in my body is radiating any signal at all?
	Yeah, if they come to us we charge them about $500 and it takes us about five to six hours to go through the whole thing because generally they want to sit and talk for an extended period of time about the situation that surrounds They're receiving the implant and then of course we have information that if you were to stack it up would be about four foot high that they can look at and then we sit there and try to, after making measurements and things, if they do have one, there's quite a bit to talk about.
	Oh, there surely would be.
	Alright.
	Not good.
	It's kind of like being one of these doctors where you're telling a patient that they're not well kind of thing.
	I'm not approaching it Not from a medical standpoint, but from a technical standpoint.
	All right, well you did put down here UFO contactees.
	So then apparently you have swept UFO contactees.
	Well, I got involved with me in the Integratron 25 years ago.
	Oh really?
	Oh sure, I know about that.
	That's a whole other show there.
	Yeah, because that was very interesting.
	I do.
	Okay, all right, all right.
	Let's keep going.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Roger Tolses.
	Hello.
	Sir, you're breaking up to the point where I can't understand what you're saying.
	I apologize.
	Is there anything strange about this call, Roger?
	Can you hear that?
	Yeah, it's frequency modulated.
	Caller, keep going.
	I apologize.
	I'm going to have to dump the call.
	I'm sorry, but there's no way we could understand what you were saying.
	Yeah, there was also a threshold to it.
	You notice how it had to sit at a certain level before it came on?
	Yeah, wasn't that odd?
	Very, very odd.
	Well, you never know.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Roger Tolson.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	I'm calling from West Virginia.
	Okay, I'm in Nevada.
	How about that?
	Okay.
	What can I do for you?
	Okay, what the problem is, I received a... You're going to have to speak up.
	Okay, I received a... West of the Rockies, call toll-free 1-800-618-8255.
	Don't tell me...
	The name of the company.
	But okay, go ahead.
	What was in the letter?
	They said I got a legal device in my house that I can do something with a card on receiving television.
	and that that helped me find fifteen thirty five hundred dollars you will
	prosecute uh...
	so another word somebody has accused you of theft of service is what it amounts
	Right.
	And somebody is supposed to have sent this to me from Ohio, and he paid for it on his credit card.
	It's supposed to come out of Canada.
	And I told the guy I didn't have any device in my house like that.
	Uh-huh.
	And he said, oh, I got it where it was shipped to your house.
	Uh-huh.
	Well, what you just heard is true.
	There are companies, satellite companies, that are sending people letters, Roger, this is true, virtually accusing them of having a device capable of duplicating one of these satellite cards, and then sort of, I guess, making the assumption that they must have used the device for that, and offering them ways out You know, to pay their way out of the thing.
	It's kind of strange.
	I don't know whether you've heard about it, but it is in fact going on, Roger.
	A little out of your field, but... Yes, I don't know anything about it.
	I was just wondering how you would, on a data link basis, try to determine theft of service.
	But I guess if you've got two-way data flow, you could probably figure it out.
	Oh, no.
	These are people who buy devices capable of duplicating the cards.
	But that means that there's a two-way transmission, isn't it?
	Well, let's see.
	Most of those things are duplex.
	You can select stuff and they know what you've selected.
	Well, what I'm saying is, yes, but they're approaching these people just based on the fact that they ordered a device capable of duplicating the cards.
	That's it.
	It's interesting.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Roger Tolses.
	Hi.
	Hi there.
	This is Olin in Culver City, California.
	Welcome.
	Yes, if Roger's spectrum analyzer only goes to 18 giga cycles, then he would never notice a 31 giga cycle bugging device.
	Okay, that would be gigahertz, sir.
	Oh, right, gigahertz devices.
	Are there RF excitation in shirt lapels or coat lapels?
	Yeah, this is true.
	However, Once you get up to that frequency, those frequencies become very difficult to control and to transmit, and you need very highly directional horns to move them.
	So most of the devices that we're dealing with are in the 800 megahertz up to about 6 gig.
	Well, this would be for neighbors next door to an apartment, and it would just be for everyday surveillance.
	Well, he's right.
	If it's beyond 18 gig, I'm not seeing it.
	Really?
	Is that, in other words, eventually, will you have to go out and get a new spectrum analyzer?
	Yeah, if I end up determining that the threat goes beyond my range, I will do that.
	I'm telling you, I agree with you certainly in one area, Roger, and that is that it was prophecy.
	84 was prophecy.
	No question about it.
	It's a heavy-duty book.
	It was a 1947 book.
	Prophecy.
	First time caller on the line.
	You're on the air with Roger Tolses.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	This is, well, I've been studying for my technician license.
	This is pretty much a question directed to Art.
	Well, sir, I've got a guest on right now, so I appreciate it.
	It's going to be a question about ham radio, right?
	Well, it's a bit of a surveillance type of thing.
	Okay.
	It was back around pretty close to 9-11.
	I'm not really sure if it was right in that timeline, but I was running around on the frequencies on my radio and I picked up a transmission and every time I tuned into it they would move to another frequency.
	Is there a way that they can track that kind of thing where you're picking up their transmission?
	Alright, well let me turn that into a sort of another question.
	It is my understanding, Roger, that the Federal Communications Commission now has elaborate, incredible It would shock you if you knew how good they were equipment for tracking even HF type signals that reflect off the ionosphere and they can nail it down to a little tiny area.
	If people knew how good the FCC is, they wouldn't be doing a lot of things you're doing, I'll tell you that.
	So, have you had any brushes with the FCC?
	I mean, after all, they are in control of a lot of what's transmitted in the airwaves, legally.
	No, I don't have any conflicts because I don't transmit, but I do know that if you put these receiving systems in aviation aircraft like these UX that we were talking about, or you use satellites, or you just have a good truck that has all that automated reception equipment, you can pin things down, yeah.
	There's plenty of stuff to do.
	They have directional capabilities now that would just knock your socks right off.
	Well, next time you look around, look at WESCAM, because WESCAM is a situation, and the news helicopters use it, whereby you put the coordinates of the GPS where your receiving antenna is, and no matter what pitch the helicopter's at, that antenna stays locked in.
	And that's just hit WESCAM on your search engine and go look at the WESCAM mounts and they're GPS guided and also transmission guided as well.
	Incredible.
	And ease to the Rockies, you're on the air with Roger Tolses, hi.
	Hello.
	Hello, turn your radio off and proceed.
	Oh, yes, thank you very much.
	You're welcome.
	I keep reading these, or seeing these books for sale about how to hide your assets and disappear.
	Yes.
	Can you really do that in this day and age?
	Yes, you can.
	It would be very interesting, thank you, to get somebody like Roger Tolses.
	And there was a man who wrote a book called How to Hide Your Assets and Disappear.
	And of course, like you, Roger, he's a high-tech type of person that can virtually erase who you are, create a new you.
	And it's not that tough, is it?
	You know, I don't have expertise in that area, but I can tell you technically that if you're going to bury gold, you better put it twelve feet down.
	I'm now saying, I didn't know that.
	Twelve feet, huh?
	Yeah, they've got metal detectors now that will pick up metal under that depth of soil, so that much I can't tell you.
	Well, there's a spiffy piece of information.
	Listen, have you yet written a book?
	No.
	Are you gonna?
	Well, you know, if I could find an author to work with me, I just don't have anybody that's a competent author.
	So if there's a competent author out there that would like to sit down and talk about 2,500 sweeps and the incredible people, that would be interesting to do.
	I mean, you must have a million more stories.
	I do.
	I'm sure you do.
	So somebody ought to sit down with you and write a bestseller.
	Well, yeah, we could do that.
	We could go fiction as well.
	I'm working right now.
	I haven't been home in several weeks.
	I've been going from sweep to sweep to sweep, and I work at night.
	We come in after everybody goes home, six o'clock at night, and that way we've got the offices and the phone systems clear, and we're kind of like night ghouls.
	Yes, we do have a lot in common.
	Flip on our bell and we're sweeping away.
	Okay, Rog.
	So, the best way to contact you is the final and probably most important question for people who have been listening and really do want to contact you.
	Through the website or what?
	Yeah, just go to bugsweeps.com and then click on the mail.
	There's a mail icon up there and just send me an email.
	Okay.
	However, I may not be back by... I have some portable computers, but right now I'm so overloaded.
	You better give me at least a week to try to get back to you.
	Well, I think people understand you're going to be overloaded, and I can imagine people rapidly listening.
	You're just going to get an awful lot to sift through.
	I want to thank you for being a guest tonight.
	You've been wonderful.
	That's great, Art.
	And we will have you back again, to be sure.
	Terrific.
	Roger Tolses, thank you.
	Thank you.
	And good night.
	Well, wasn't that something?
	In case you were wondering about what can be done, you don't have to wonder anymore, because we just laid an awful lot out for you.
	That'll do it for me this weekend.
	See you again when, once again, the weekend appears.
	Until then, Crystal has the words to take us out from the high desert.
	Good night, all.
	Midnight in the desert Shooting stars across the sky This magical journey We'll take this on a ride Filled with a longing Searching for the truth Will we make it till tomorrow?
	Will the sun shine on you?

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