Major Ed Dames warns of WWIII risks while linking bird flu outbreaks—10,000+ mysterious deaths in China—to economic collapse, as Art Bell transitions to Bob Lazar’s late-1980s Area 51 revelations. Lazar details nine alien craft using gravity-based propulsion via element 115, dismissed by skeptics like T. Townsend Brown but confirmed as the only proven method for real-time gravitational manipulation. He denies wild theories—hostages in a Roswell silo or death rays—while acknowledging classified projects and government secrecy, including a March 1980s underground explosion mislabeled as a nuclear test. Lazar’s skepticism extends even to his own past, yet his claims suggest humanity’s grasp of gravity tech remains decades behind extraterrestrial advancements, raising unsettling questions about military exploitation and the limits of disclosure. [Automatically generated summary]
Well, in an hour, Major Ed Dames got an email from somebody here.
Last couple times that Major Dames was on your program, he predicted that the next economic malaise will come due to an avian-born illness, sort of like SARS.
Well, guess what?
There is a SARS bird-like flu infecting chickens all over the Far East.
And just today on the Drudge Report, there is a headline about the bird flu surfacing in Delaware.
True enough.
All true enough, and yes, he did say that.
In fact, let me give you a little preview of some of the things that Ed has decided he would like to talk about.
In alien life forms, continued telepresence on Earth.
Now, that's kind of interesting.
I wonder what he means.
In alien life forms, telepresence on Earth.
SETI is looking in the wrong place, in the wrong way, he says.
Earth's most intelligent non-human life form.
You'll never guess, he says.
Very intelligent.
Does not like to cuddle.
I wonder what that could be.
The strange odd object on the surface of Mars.
Oh, yes, I want to talk about that anyway.
The photo.
He says that for him, when he wrote this, was a work in progress, and he may have it complete for us tonight.
Ghosts.
He's got something to say about ghosts and looming catastrophes of all sorts, crop failures, overlapping even the problem of the avian-born disease.
That was, by the way, for your reference, mentioned in his October 12th, 2000 appearance, 2003 appearance on this program.
Just in case you're keeping track.
Now, the photograph, the Mars photograph, yes, well, I'm looking at it right now.
Of course, it's on the website, coastcoastam.com.
And, you know, it purports to be in the excited eyes of the person seeing it, perhaps a UFO.
I don't know.
It could be dust.
It could be a flake of dust.
It could be a little dust on the camera.
It could be a pixel missing.
Any of the above, or it could be the mothership at 20 miles.
I have no idea.
Could be any of the above.
But there's not enough evidence beyond a speck there to go beyond that kind of speculation.
If you blow it up, it's kind of square, like a pixel-like it might be gone.
They've had problems like that before.
So I don't know.
Or dust.
I mean, why not?
There's no one to wipe it off up there.
Far as I know.
I have an outside camera and I keep it covered all the time, except when I'm, you know, trying to take night shots of the stars, something like that.
Then I uncover it.
That's it, though.
Rest of the time, it stays covered because of, guess what?
Dust.
We're out here in the desert.
We get a lot of it, and it looks just like that, potentially.
Actually, you know what?
It doesn't.
Speck of dust actually doesn't look like that.
Speck of dust actually wouldn't be seen because it would be out of focus.
It would appear more as sort of just a boy, everything wouldn't look quite right because it would be that much closer to the lens.
So probably not dust.
Maybe it is a mothership.
John Kerry coasted to victory in the main caucuses Sunday, wrapping up a three-state weekend sweep that pushed the Democratic frontrunner closer to that party's nomination.
And it was, of course, an awfully big disappointment for some.
Howard Dean, for example, who, well, it just didn't work out right for Howard Dean, did it?
President Bush went on the Sunday morning talk shows and denied that he marched America into war under false pretenses, said the U.S.-led invasion was necessary because Saddam Hussein could have developed a nuclear weapon.
Quote, I don't think America can stand by and hope for the best, end quote, President said.
Bush suggested Saddam may have destroyed or perhaps spirited out of the country the banned weapons.
But on the other hand, if you're about to have a war, you'd probably want to use them.
After an outbreak of avian influenza was discovered at a Delaware farm, state authorities have tested several nearby facilities but have not released the results.
Scientists will not release the results of a first round of tests until a second round is complete.
That worries me.
And this one dropped in my lap.
More than 10,000 birds died mysteriously in eastern China's Jingzhou province, dropping like rain from the sky, according to state media there on Thursday.
Farmers and other witnesses in a little village in Joshua City saw flocks of bramble finch suddenly fall from the sky on Tuesday.
This was in the Beijing Youth Daily.
Most of the birds were dead when they hit the ground.
Some were injured.
The birds look like sparrows.
They're small in size.
Officials from the local Center for Disease Prevention and Control rushed to that scene.
Samples from the birds were taken to a lab in nearby Nanjing City for testing to determine the cause of their in-flight, for the most part, death.
So that, you know, I mean, they'll look at contamination problems in their food or water or the environment, but with all the bird news going around, that's pretty damn weird, if you ask me.
This is so that you know, I'm not making these things up.
The following is from the BBC.
The finding of a parrot with an almost unparalleled power to communicate with people, listen please closely to this story.
This is unparalleled power to communicate with people, has brought scientists up short.
The bird, a native African gray called Nikesi, has a vocabulary of 950 words and shows signs of a sense of humor.
He invents his own words and phrases if he's confronted with, this is so important, he makes up his own words and phrases if he's confronted with novel ideas with which his existing repertoire cannot cope, just like a child, a human child would do.
Nikesi's remarkable abilities, which are said to include ready for this, telepathy, are featured in the latest BBC Wildlife magazine.
Nikesi is believed to be one of the most advanced users of human language in the animal world.
About, now here's a fact that will surprise you: about 100 words are needed for half of all reading in English.
Did you know that?
Only 100 words are needed for half of all the reading we do in English.
So if Nikesi could read, he'd be able to cope with a wide range of material.
Polished wordsmith.
He uses words, listen to me, in context with past, present, and future tenses, and is often inventive.
One Nikesi-ism was flawed, F-L-I-E-D for flu, and another pretty smell medicine to describe the aromatherapy oils used by his owner, an artist based in New York.
When he first met Dr. Jane Goodall, this is going to rock you back.
The renowned chimpanzee expert, after seeing her in a picture with apes, Nikese said, got a chimp.
He appears to fancy himself as a humorist.
When another parrot hung upside down from its perch, he commented, You got to put this bird on the camera.
Down from its perch, he commented.
You got to put this bird on the camera.
Dr. Goodall says Nikesi's verbal fireworks are a quote outstanding example of interspecies communication.
In an experiment, the bird and his owner were put in separate rooms and filmed as the artist opened random envelopes containing picture cards.
Analysis showing the parrot had used appropriate keywords three times more often than could possibly be likely by chance.
Now, this is so if you want to find this, the BBC is publishing this, and it's incredible.
I mean, what does this say about a bird?
A bird that can think in past tense, current tense, future tense.
The ability to communicate at this level in sentences, what does that mean about the animals that we have all around us?
Well, last night, the African general, by the way, if you didn't hear that interview, you really, really, really have to go back to the archives and listen to the interview of the African general last night, who he claims he is the man who ordered the shootdown of the UFO over South Africa that Bob Lazar, he suggests, later saw with a dent in it toward the back of the hangar.
Well, here's an interesting little diddy for you.
The following from the Associated Press.
Does it get any better?
Russian and American scientists say they have created two new super heavy elements that will reside at the extreme end of chemistry's periodic table of elements.
Now, I'm going to stop reading here.
You remember Element 115?
Think back.
How many of you remember?
Element 115 was the fuel that was described as powering the alien spacecraft.
That's what Element 115 was.
Now, resuming this story, just a few atoms of the newly discovered elements 113 and 115 existed for split seconds after being created in a particle accelerator.
They represent unusual forms of matter with properties that go well beyond those of the 92 elements that occur naturally on Earth.
Super heavies, as they're so-called, may be abundantly generated by supernova explosions in stars.
Perhaps they were fused during the fiery moments that signaled the dawn of the universe itself, but here on the ground, such tiny amounts of super heavies formed in atom smashers probably will never find an everyday use.
And I'm going to jump ahead a little in the article.
In the experiments, researchers fired a rare isotope of calcium at a target made from americurium.
The new element 115 was created on occasions when the nuclei of the calcium and the americurium fused.
In the artificial environments of the cyclotron, atoms of element 115, now labeled brace yourself on obtanium.
I mean, I had a man who I couldn't tell the network I was going to be on because I didn't want traces to occur.
And I knew that if I advertised what I was going to do, and it really was true, that then word would get out ahead of time, and this man's life could be in danger.
So I did not announce it.
I just did it.
unidentified
Right.
Do you remember what year he said all this took place?
I'm not saying it is, but it may be that there are little important details that he could yet add to that story that would give us more information to go, I don't know, check the story out or whatever.
But it was told, I thought, with credibility from just about every single point of view.
Now, it's always possible that he certainly believes it to be true at this point, because it sounded that way, didn't it?
But even after that, it may not be.
However, having listened, I give it the edge of, hey, you know what?
That sounded pretty doggone real to me.
From the high desert in the middle of the night, this is Coast to Coast AM.
I'm Art Bell, right here in the darkness where I belong.
unidentified
For a
presentation of Coach to Coach Day Out with Art Bell.
It was an experimental laser because that's all they had in the air because their other aircraft were diverted to a Russian presence off the coast.
unidentified
Okay.
And the second question is your second guest, the ones that recorded the dead.
Yes.
You know, several years ago, there used to be all this controversy about backward masking on record albums and people playing records backwards to hear messages.
I was just wondering if they had ever done that with their tapes, played any of them backwards or sped them up or slowed them down to see if they were getting messages both forward and reverse.
He's also said to be by remote viewers the most talented natural psychic in the world.
unidentified
Hey, well, listen, then correct me if I'm wrong.
He and his mentor, I think Dr. Hal Putoff, were disengaged from the government remote viewing projects when I guess a fear of the telepathic nature of such an operation became sort of apparent, you know?
In other words, if you can remote view something, then perhaps you can take your mind and that power and use it to affect the thinking of another person.
Now, imagine how much that would scare the hell out of anybody, that somebody might reach into your mind and virtually direct how you think.
unidentified
Ah, but that's fear versus love.
And if you're in a love state, you know, I guess we are sort of like our bodies and minds are like a life support system, and they have these software programs, you know, mental software programs, you know, either, you know, the radio, TV, the whatever.
And I sort of looked at it as sort of a threat to the status quo that wants to have secrecy just to keep themselves in power.
Well, that's exactly correct, and it's a great worry of mine.
I'm a really firm believer in this whole mass consciousness thing, and one of my biggest concerns is whether the possibility may exist that focusing on the negative will, in fact, precipitate the negative, and that it's all a self-fulfilling prophecy.
You can't rule it out.
unidentified
That's true.
I guess so it really comes down to the individuals.
I guess if we get a critical mass, as Buck Mr. Fuller said, of individuals first, you know, taking care of it, then we can get to business, huh?
Well, you're very welcome, but I don't know that I'd be putting my money in the bank on that one.
They don't.
Well, you know, his nickname is not there per chance.
Dr. Doom.
Dr. Doom, they call him.
Now, he got the avian thing right.
And no, he hasn't yet gotten everything right, but a lot of things they say he got wrong.
He didn't because they haven't happened yet.
Timelines being the most difficult thing to cover with remote viewing.
But look, I'll tell you something about Ed Dames.
Number one, he's exactly who he says he is.
I've read his military record, STEM to Stern.
There's no bull there.
He did what he said he did.
He was a training officer in the CIA program.
He did that.
So take that one as word of somebody who's read his military record, the whole damn thing.
He sent it to me.
So you can choose not to believe some of it, if you wish, but not his credentials.
They certainly are authentic.
And some of what he said, quite a bit, actually, has come to pass.
Now, people don't like to remember those things, and they definitely don't like Ed, or at least a lot of people don't, because he is kind of on the negative side.
WOAI, the great monster on 1200 in San Antonio, one of the world's strongest radio stations.
unidentified
It is.
It definitely is.
I'm not a long-time listener.
Just my wife got me involved with you.
And since that happened, I can't put you down.
I mean, it's a great show, and I'm just glad that you're back on the weekends.
But anyway, I was calling this mentioning about the fact that doing an interview with President Bush and Tim Russett, that Tim asked him about the Skull and Bones, and he just refused the answer.
Well, yeah, the thing that caught me about is I was thinking that, you know, this is about the time that we were having a lot of problems over there when we sent our military in as well.
It could be something cooked up in a lab somewhere.
Could be a lot of things.
This is one weird world we live in right now, isn't it?
And I knew these things were coming, too.
Nor does that make me a great man.
I knew that these weather changes, these problems with species hopping, I knew all of this was coming.
Don't ask me how.
I just knew.
And that's what caused me to sit down and write the books I wrote.
So I think we all have that, though.
I think all of you, to some degree, are sensitive.
And if you deal in this material all the time, it forces you to think about this kind of thing, right?
And the more you think about it, the more likely you're going to seem like an intuitive, even though I don't claim the first thing about being intuitive.
Yeah, it's the first time I've actually been on the air, so it's kind of confusing.
Anyways, my mom used to tell me that when her father, who has passed away, my brother was younger, and my brother would talk to my grandfather and tell him stuff about my mom that he would have never known because he was like really young, like one or two.
You mean like contemporary stuff that he couldn't have known?
Precognitive Parrots00:03:10
unidentified
Yeah, he would tell him like where my grandmother had been to the grocery store or something that happened in her life that he would never have known about.
Same problem with my guests last night and the work they do.
They get all kinds of contemporary information, and that's really scary.
It is scary to me because, you know, when you're trying to sit and decide what it's like on the other side, and the other side is telling us things that are going on now or will go on.
Well, that's usually a key to, hey, we're in trouble there when you see the entire hillside on fire behind your orange or something against the night sky.
Even the most primitive creatures know what that means.
But humans do have precognitive experiences, and maybe even parrots.
I thought this story from the BBC about Nikesi, the parrot, was outstanding.
I mean, a parrot who thinks in the past, the present, and the future can construct sentences, if not small paragraphs, and responds and has a sense of humor.
Now, think about what that means if birds, and they're not exactly the top of the mammal chain, right?
He is a man who is probably one of the more controversial people in the entire field of ufology.
I mean, really controversial.
Bob Lazar is president of United Nuclear.
They specialize in research and development of cutting-edge technologies, design and manufacture of radiation detection equipment for the nuclear weapons industry and the retail of scientific equipment and supplies.
He was formerly senior staff physicist for the U.S. Department of Naval Intelligence at the Nevada test site, you know that area near me, and the nuclear physicist at Los Alamos National Labs, where he was involved in advanced nuclear weapon design and development.
And in the middle of all that, he's seen things that very few living Americans have ever seen.
He's actually seen the ships.
He's actually seen the saucers.
In a moment, Bob Lazar, who I know probably didn't hear the first program or the last program, I guess I had to say.
I did with Bob Lazar.
He is a fascinating guy who got to see the real McCoy at Area S4 near, of course, the infamous Area 51.
I guess it was last few weeks ago now, I interviewed our mutual friend, John Lear.
And second of all, yeah, I'm glad I was involved in the project for a short time.
But, you know, once you leave that and try and enter normal life, especially if you're peddling your services in research and development, the scientific field, it becomes really tough for people to take you seriously when you're known as the UFO guy.
So it's just hard to kind of divorce all that stuff.
How do you now remember that special year with John, or maybe it was more than a year, but the period of time you spent with John and you went through all of that?
How do you now remember that?
Do you remember it fondly?
Do you remember it as something you wish you hadn't done or what?
And as this goes on for quite a while, suspicions begin to build up.
And, you know, I kind of kept my friends at arm's length at that time because I just didn't want any problems.
I wanted all the, you know, this newfound security to go smoothly.
Sure.
And was pretty much playing with the game.
So it started causing suspicion in my friends and, you know, immediate family and that sort of thing.
So I decided to take the risk one night and just bring everybody out close enough to where they could see a test flight when I knew a test flight was going on.
And, you know, I can't really say what the actual motivation was back then, you know, specifically what made it, you know, what made me snap on that day.
I mean, John hauled out his, even though we got much closer in than you can today near the area.
Well, I have no idea what it's like today, but at least when I was last in Las Vegas a few years ago, you really couldn't get very far out on the road.
But we drove in close to 10 miles, and you can't do that anymore.
But John hauled out his Celestron 10-inch telescope, and from there it was quite a view.
Instead of an action-reaction system, I guess the the analogy I always use is if you go put a bowling ball in the middle of your bed and three feet away from it, push your fist into the bed and push down really hard, the bowling ball rolls towards it.
In other words, obviously these ships are designed to fly through interstellar space.
And I wonder what if they're using gravity in that manner, then how does local gravity, I wonder, affect them?
In other words, the Earth has gravity, and when they're within our field, is it any different than when they're in interstellar space in terms of the way it operates?
And the omicron configuration is when the craft uses one of the emitters to essentially hover on and causes that local distortion with the other two in front of it, causing it to move forward.
The delta configuration, in fact, let me take a step back for a second.
That's how the craft is flown in an area of gravity.
Now, when you want to leave a local area of gravity, say you'd fly into space, what is done is you transition from Omicron to Delta.
And in a lot of the UFO pictures you see occasionally, you'll see these UFOs at these ridiculous angles at 45-degree angles hanging in the middle of the air.
And the reason for that is that's the transition between the two different flight modes.
As the craft lifts off the ground, it has to fly in a gravity-free environment in space with the belly forward.
It doesn't fly like a flying saucer does in a science fiction movie.
The emitters focus on one point, all three of them out in space, and that's how the thing travels.
So you're kind of going from a conventional mode of flight, lifting up in the air, raising the belly, and then aiming that towards your target, and that's how you progress.
Bob, knowing what you know about at least the propulsion system, what can you imagine that might go wrong and cause a craft to crash as it allegedly did, for example, at Roswell?
You know, I've wondered about that for a while, and I really can't see how one of these things could crash.
But apparently it did.
But I just I can't see where a failure is going to typically occur.
I don't care if there's a lightning storm or what locally is going on unless there was something that occurred within the craft.
I don't think there's any external force that's going to act on it, certainly any natural force, and cause any problems, because if you're generating your own gravitational field, you're essentially immune to everything that's going on around you.
Well, yeah, that's why I say if some defect occurred inside, or if something was done unintentionally as far as piloting the craft, that I could see happening.
But I don't buy the story, somebody comes cruising in from 30 light years away, runs into a thunderstorm, and crashes into the ground.
There's a lot of information that leads me to believe that, but, you know, I'm one of the most skeptical people when it comes to flying saucer stories.
And I know that almost sounds hypocritical, but that's just the way it is.
Becoming involved with one aspect of it kind of cemented that in my mind.
But, you know, boy, there's lots of wacko stories out there, and I'm sure you've heard your share of them, maybe more than anybody.
But, you know, if this propulsion system, I mean, it could mean so much for the world.
If we knew how to manipulate gravity in that way, that obviously would be a power source that could be harnessed and utilized in a world where we're running out of coal and oil and all the conventional stuff we've used.
We really badly need another energy source.
If, I mean, when you saw these saucers, it was how many years ago now?
You know, a tremendous weapon potential, maybe more so than energy, because as far as duplicating the power system, well, you need access to materials, elements, things of that sort that we simply don't have and cannot fabricate.
Well, that's what they're using a technology there essentially to focus something that's conventional.
But if you could maintain the energy density, maintain, you know, essentially a tight focus spot of any high-intensity energy, you could burn, you know, penetrate, destroy different targets.
But also, it's also a great defensive thing because once you start talking about manipulating gravity and you can create a gravitational field in any plane you wish, you know, things that become possible are what we consider science fiction.
Now, the popular shields in Star Trek become possible now.
Certainly that would have been one of the early conclusions any military mind would have drawn, and that could have easily made it to the top to the president.
Ronald Reagan was somebody who said what was on his mind to the consternation of many around him.
He'd just say what was on his mind to hell with the consequences.
No, I think these are way too valuable to use in combat.
These aren't things that have been produced.
If we have any, we're using the parts from the craft and their prototypes.
And I don't think anybody is risking putting these valuable things into battle.
I think it's, you know, unless we've developed another source for the materials or have been able to duplicate them in the past 10 years, I really don't see that we're going to be going anywhere with that.
But who knows?
Maybe by this time research has continued and they've actually come up with something.
One of the key things that John Lear did during our last interview was he said, hey, Art, I'm going to take you to a briefing, and you're going to get to say whether you think all of this, there should be total disclosure about everything the United States government has done since day one regarding this whole issue of extraterrestrials, what we've learned, what information we have, how we got it, what we've done with it,
the terrible things government has done to protect the secrets and all the rest of it.
I'm going to lay it all out for you, and you decide whether or not it should be all publicly disclosed.
You know, everybody in ufology is screaming for disclosure.
And so I'm wondering about you, Bob.
If you had a litany of things laid in front of you that we had done, some of them pretty terrible, if you buy it, would you say that there should be full disclosure, or is this something better kept from the American or the world public?
We do have an awful lot of people in the world that just hate us because we're alive.
And if you're concerned about weapons and the proliferation of things of that sort, you do need to keep certain things secret from the rest of the world.
However, it's one of the things that I had said initially, go ahead and keep all that stuff secret, but just admit, hey, by the way, a long time ago, we ran into some of these things.
This technology is real.
There apparently is actual intelligent extraterrestrial life somewhere else.
And we have a few artifacts and go ahead and release some stuff to the public.
Look up here.
Here's a hinge made on another world.
Just something generic.
And keep all the other stuff secret.
But then I can also see the flip side of that.
That's going to whet everybody's appetite and there's going to be a fur over disclosing the rest of the information.
And if the government's been keeping that for secret for so long, what else have they been keeping secret?
But surely there is some method for keeping this gigantic secret, and not all politicians, nor even perhaps all presidents are told about the existence of that.
And one of the things they told me, which was one of my first comments there when I finally knew what I was working on, how do you guys keep this secret?
And what they told me was, this is the easiest thing in the world to keep secret because it's so unbelievable.
And, you know, when you really think about it, they're right.
You know, as I fight to try and just put this behind me and forget about everything, you know, a lot of people keep prodding me for information and it resurfaces in my mind.
But for the most part, I just try and get rid of this.
At the time, sure, I was pissed off, more so than you can possibly imagine.
And, you know, as my friends at that time recall, I drove around in my little 280Z with an Uzi.
You know, that's the kind of trouble I expected, and I didn't go anywhere without it.
But, you know, times have changed.
A lot of time has gone by.
And I don't know.
It's kind of hard to say.
Yeah, it's always in the back of my mind.
But, you know, what am I going to do?
To this day, I'm still fighting to get some paperwork and some things I can't even talk about, but back to the way it was so I can be a normal person.
Yeah, it was just a backlit shadow, so you couldn't recognize who I was, and the pseudonym I used was the name of my boss at the time, which was kind of a little smack in the face to say, hey, just back off and leave me alone.
And apparently, that caused quite a stir, and I got a call shortly after that.
And needless to say, they were pretty upset with that move.
Well, that was essentially just admitting that there were nine craft out there, that they were actively back engineering and attempting to duplicate the power and propulsion system of the craft.
Yeah, I mean, at that time, you know, John Lear was out there himself saying that there were flying saucers at the test site and all kinds of stuff that I thought was pretty silly.
But as it turned out, you know, he was right.
I don't know what information source he had at that time, but he had been telling you and saying that.
Wasn't the tester, the tester company that makes models came out with a model of a UFO of a flying saucer, quite a unique scale model of a flying saucer.
I have one of them.
And how much of your input was used to create that model?
Yeah, John Andrews from Testers just sat down and said, hey, we want to make a model of this, and you want to help us or not?
And I said, Yeah, okay, this is it.
And they brought a couple guys in, and, you know, off the top of my head, I tried to remember some dimensions, and we did some initial drawings, and the craft just didn't look right.
And he had a couple of friends that were, I don't quite remember what they were skilled in, but in any case, they were able to get the correct dimensions by me recognizing the sizes of known objects at various distances.
How long a process was that for you to accurately finally, you know, I guess it's like going to a police station and going to a sketch artist and have them finally come up with something that matches the person you saw.
It probably took a month on and off of going over drawings, drawing the layout over and over again and having these guys look at it and then scale it up and see if things fit.
And they sounded kind of embarrassed and said, you know, we're going to have to come down and check out the facility there.
And we asked why, and there was kind of a hesitation, and they said, I know this sounds crazy, but, you know, we have people that actually have come down to the station and said that they believe you're holding alien hostages underground in the silo.
Yeah, every day.
And, you know, because they filed the report, they actually went down.
They are obligated to go check things out.
So they had to come down and verify that there's no aliens being held hostage in there.
Well, that was most recently, before I moved to New Mexico.
What had happened was just a random guy drove out there and was planning on committing suicide.
Now, of all the places in the world, this guy could have gone to kill himself.
He drove down the road to the silo, parked on top of it, and set his car on fire or something like that.
Anyway, the thing burnt to the ground, and the guy was dead.
And prior to that, there's also wild animals, antelope, cattle, whatever in the area.
And there's been a couple dead cows out there.
So the connection between cattle mutilations and all this stuff started brewing in the minds of some people.
So somehow it got around that I was developing a death ray in this underground facility and that I had tested it on cattle, which is why they were dead.
And of course, a guy came driving down the road and I vaporized his car and killed him.
Now, Bob, over the years, especially in that time period when you were with John and the whole thing was coming down, how much, and you've done a number of public interviews, several with me.
There's just a couple little tidbits, and I think I've told you that before.
There's a couple things that I need, and this isn't to burn anybody and hold information back, but it's in case somebody claims that they were involved with the project or work there.
There are a couple things that only those people will know.
And anytime that anybody brings those up when questioned by me, I'll know.
So that's the only reason.
There's just a few little bits and pieces of information here and there.
But if somebody were to come forward and claim they had seen what you saw, they also know it to be true because they worked there.
You would have a couple of questions you'd be able to ask them that would verify the authenticity of the- Sure, instantaneously.
Instantaneously.
All right.
Now, why did you move?
I mean, you've been a very longtime desert rat out here in the Las Vegas area, nearby me, and, of course, the infamous area 51S4 and all the rest of it.
I was there, and certainly working at the test site was fascinating.
And a little bit of the work I did there when I initially moved to Las Vegas.
But after that, being out of the scientific field, I really went stagnant and really didn't produce or do anything that I really considered worthwhile and just needed to get out of the Las Vegas environment completely.
And New Mexico, especially around the Albuquerque area, you know, you have two of the most prominent national nuclear labs here, Los Alamos and Sandia.
And, you know, the cities here are filled with PhD scientists.
And it just feels it felt good to get back into the mainstream of things.
And, you know, in the short time I was here, in the first 18 months, I just began to actually produce what I considered decent work.
I started filing for patents and, you know, as you know, working on the hydrogen system.
Yeah, and it's, yeah, I guess it's just a different mindset.
And also the immediate area that I live in, you know, moving up isolated in the mountains in the middle of a forest and, you know, on a lot of acres of land is different than living right in the middle of Las Vegas and typically in town.
So it's just it's a freer environment and I'm building my own research lab here and I don't know.
It's a lot more fertile ground for thinking and actually doing something serious.
No, I think it's been proven pretty well that I can't do that.
But it drives me crazy because the thing I would love, I could spend four hours on the phone more pissed up than you can imagine talking about this SWAT team thing.
But I my hands are tied right now.
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Oh, no, maybe in the future I can say something about that.
Do you think that you're working on, without asking you specifically what you're working on, did any of let's try it this way, did any of your experience at S-War and what you saw and what you learned technically have application in any work that you're either doing now or contemplating?
Okay, perhaps you can answer a hydrogen question for me.
Now, hydrogen is being touted.
Even the President of the United States is touting it as the way to go.
But there are others, Bob, who say, look, this is in a way all foolishness because to create hydrogen in amounts that would be good for the public to use, energy cells, fuel cells, would require manufacturing, pollution, the use of energy.
In other words, all you're really doing is finding a new storage facility and way to store energy that still has to be produced, frankly, in the old-fashioned way.
In other words, no matter how it works, Bob, and it sounds like you're almost more on the negative than the positive side of this, but I mean, no matter how it works, aren't conventional fuels going to have to be used in copious amounts to produce these cylinders of hydrogen?
The actual conversion is not that difficult, not that terribly expensive.
I have not used any energy producing any of the hydrogen that I make as far as power off the grid, fossil fuels, or whatnot.
Hydrogen is easily electrolyzed by water.
You know, if you need to prove it to yourself, take a 12-volt battery, put both wires in the water, add a pinch of salt, and you'll see bubbles coming off of one side.
Well, the big hang-up right now has been the actual storage medium.
You don't want to store hydrogen as just a compressed gas because it's dangerous, it's flammable, and on top of that, you need thousands of times more space to hold the hydrogen than you would an equivalent amount of gasoline.
You don't want to store it liquid because that's cryogenic, it's dangerous, it's just a big thermos bottle in your tank, and it's another big headache.
The third way is the best way, and that's a metal hydride.
And this is a granular material that absorbs hydrogen like a sponge absorbs water.
And it only releases the hydrogen when it's heated.
And when it's not being heated, I can fire incendiary bullets through the hydride tank, and it just smolders like a cigarette.
Now, there are various hydride materials, and some were actually very difficult to get a hold of because some of them, like lithium-6 deuteride, which is a hydride, actually, well, the material I use as a hydride, the only use for that material is in thermonuclear bombs.
And it's restricted, obviously restricted for sale.
And the only reason some of these hydrides are manufactured was for the weapons industry, and they're done so in such small quantities, the cost was very high.
For instance, to convert the Corvette just for the tanks of hydride, we were looking at $15,000 without the hydrogen conversion itself.
So this is, you know, that's a pretty large price tag.
But if this whole thing were perfected and you had access to the materials and it were done in mass, I'd like to get some idea of what it would cost to convert.
You get a little less, you know, for instance, in a larger engine.
In fact, that's the reason we converted the Corvette, was a lot of these alternate fuel cars, the little Ford escorts and these little tiny motors, and it leaves everybody wondering, well, can't you power something substantial?
So we purposely did a large V8 engine, and yeah, it still lights up the tires and, you know, screams away.
There's a little loss in horsepower, but in a large engine, you're not going to detect a 10% loss in horsepower.
Okay, well, I know, but still, all right, but let me take the other side of it, Bob.
Let's fight this a little bit.
There's a lot of people out there like Stephen Greer, who I have on tomorrow night, and they really do make a compelling, damn strong case that, gosh, darn it all, if we've been visited by aliens, if they've really been here, if we have their craft, their technology, and even bodies, and this is such an incredibly large story, so important to the human race that nobody has a right to keep anything like this secret, and it should be told.
It should be out in the open.
And if these Bob Lazars don't come in and talk to me and others, then how in the hell are we ever going to find out?
Because you said it yourself, the government sure isn't going to tell us.
Well, a lot of people, Bob, think that, I mean, when they have these reality TV shows and people line up for blocks and wait two days through the ice and the cold to get a chance to be, you know, I have FaceTime on television.
We do live in that kind of world, and so some people suspect your motive is that.
There's a lot of speculation, of course, about an agreement to allow some human beings, for example, to be abducted for research in return for, let's say, technology.
And John Lear alluded to all that and said that they, in essence, reneged on that aspect of what was supposed to be a deal.
Of course, to make, you know, you'd never make that kind of thing public.
If you had made a deal to shuffle off some of your citizens at random to guys who are going to do God knows what to them, chop them up, cut them up, whatever they do, you could never talk about that ever.
Well, he's convinced there are artifacts on the moon, gigantic artifacts on the moon and Mars.
And others have said that as well.
Richard C. Hoagland and others have said there are things on the moon.
In fact, you know what?
There's speculation that the President of the United States, George Bush, is about to make a speech in which he's going to say the United States is going to go back to the moon.
There's going to be a shuttle mission to go back to the moon.
Well, you know, it's for the most part, you know, it's metal and components.
Just sit there with something you know that works.
Don't do what the United States typically does and reinvent the wheel constantly.
That got us to the moon.
Many times it worked.
Just update it with some modern materials, electronics, and components and use it since it's there and stop spending huge amounts of money doing nothing.
First of all, the space station is limited in what it can do.
And I know a moon base is much more difficult to get to.
It doesn't have to be large, but you can at least try and test out some technology on trying to manufacture fuel, do some small refining, see what you can get from the surrounding environment.
There have been reports, I think, I don't know, was it the Cassini?
Some radar mapping craft over the past four or five years detected that there were supposedly large frozen areas of water on the moon.
However, they just went over that data again and another arbitrator now are refuting some of that.
You know, if you've got water, you've got energy and you've got the possibility for all kinds of stuff.
So that would make it uninhabitable if they're completely reversing themselves now.
It's kind of strange to me.
A lot of people believe, Bob, that there are things on the moon, large glass structures, incredible things that were hidden from the world when we went to the moon and have been hidden ever since.
And that's the reason they say we haven't gone back.
I believe John is one of the people who believes that.
You know, it's a completely different world now than it was in the 60s.
There's a lot more technology, so there's a lot more we can investigate there.
And the original reason to go to the moon was never to research the moon, you know, aside from beating the Russians there.
The original intention was only to see the feasibility or to investigate the feasibility of making a small base there and launching a Mars mission from the moon.
This was all about going to Mars.
The moon was only supposed to be because it would be easier to get there from the moon, less gravity, so on and so forth.
Sure.
And that was just to be looked upon as a potential launching site for a Mars mission.
So the interest was never in the moon.
I mean, we pretty much knew it was just a rock up there anyway.
The interest has always been in Mars, but Mars isn't that easy to get to.
So then, Rob, we have been unable to decipher the manner in which or duplicate the manner in which gravity is manipulated by the devices on the craft that you saw.
Obviously, we failed, or what?
In other words, otherwise we'd be using this technology, so we failed?
This is what we're getting real close to one of the areas that I said that I purposely don't talk about so I know if anybody's been involved with a project which has to do with the craft and where it's gone.
You know, I always thought that that was an odd place to put it.
Because in the early days of the nuclear weapon development, some of the best places that they kept everything were in the South Pacific, like Kwajalan Island and things of that sort.
And you don't have any look-you-lose there.
You have no hassles from anybody.
You're in the middle of nowhere, and nobody can get there without you seeing them.
Wouldn't have built this secret base in the middle of Nevada, you know, outside of Las Vegas.
And the only reason they moved the nuclear test site to Nevada was because it was just too expensive running supplies back and forth and all the personnel to the South Pacific.
Well, you don't have that problem with the E.T. program because it's limited personnel, limited supplies, and, you know, go hide it in the middle of the ocean on an island like they did with everything else.
So if I was going to put it somewhere, that's where it would be.
He said, Art, imagine you're going to this briefing, and I'm going to lay the briefing out for you, showing you slides and putting things on the blackboard.
And I'm going to explain to you everything the United States and world governments have ever done regarding the whole ET issue.
And you tell me at the end of it if you would say, okay, make it all public.
Because some of the things that John said are so far beyond the pale that the religious implications, the social implications, the fact that I do believe people would go berserk.
But that's, look, I am the first one to admit that if somebody came forward to me with my identical story and laid everything in my lap, I'm not sure I'd buy it.
So I can't expect anything else from anybody else.
And in fact, I almost prefer people don't believe it because then I get hassled less about it.
I'm just relaying what happened to me at the time, and that's it.
That's the end of the story.
And where it's gone and why how all this stuff came about is beyond my scope of knowledge, and I don't profess to know anything that I haven't been exposed to.
I've got that, but I mean, as incredulous as it sounds, why not believe other incredulous things?
I mean, if there are saucers here, if there were bodies recovered, if we actually have aliens, then certainly some of the stories about aliens could easily be true.
I had some things verified to me and had hands-on experience.
I got to touch him.
I got to see him.
I got to analyze them and said, okay, this is real.
Now, for the layman or researcher or whatever that hasn't, everything is in the same category to them.
It's all conjecture.
You know, yet I've had some things proven to me, and I hold on to those like an anchor.
Okay, I know this is real, but I don't know about anything else.
I don't know if Betty and Barney Hill were abducted, but they have a compelling story.
I don't know if the Roswell crash occurred, but that's a compelling story.
Some of the stories you hear are totally illogical and don't make sense.
And to me, they fit in the category.
You know, you try and maintain an open mind and remain scientific about it, but you have prejudices in either direction, as most intelligent people do.
And, you know, there is, you know, I don't believe everybody that says they were abducted was abducted.
I'm calling about the gravitational amplifier system.
I'm interested in this because I'm a physics student, and I was thinking that kind of at the forefront of physics research now is kind of a push to detect gravitational waves, which is a tough thing to do, and probably ultimately discover the gravitational particle, the graviton.
And I was thinking about this three-pole system that you described as very directional.
And maybe a gravitational current is involved.
I was wondering if that maybe hints at why we can't figure out what is going on there.
Well, this is more of the research I wanted to conduct while there.
Well, I wanted to get down to the hardcore research and gravity and how the energy propagates by itself.
And by the way, I don't believe there are gravitons.
I don't believe there's particles involved.
I don't believe it's even a wave-particle duality, you know, like light photons are.
I think this is, well, it appears to be more of a wave effect.
And exactly how it propagates Is at least I don't personally understand that.
It almost seemed to propagate as microwaves did, since any time inside the craft the gravity, the basic gravity wave was rooted anywhere from the reactor to the amplifiers, it always traveled inside tuned pipes.
So again, that implies at a specific frequency you should have some sort of gravitational effect if it's just a basic carrier wave of some sort, but that doesn't appear to be true.
So that's what connected the reactor to the skin of the craft and ultimately to the So then whatever the nature of this wave is, you could imagine it like microwave because it was carried according to your physical description, kind of the same way.
Right, but if it's just a basic wave, you know, you could just set up a high-frequency oscillator and then as you slowly increase the frequency, you get different effects.
You know, you get microwave, you get, and it's all part of the electromagnetic spectrum, and you can get X-rays and whatever, and you should just run into gravity at some point, but you don't.
So there's something else there, but they were so concerned about the actual application of it, they weren't really concerned about the research into the basics of it, which probably if it would have been done that way when I was there, at least I think it would have given us a clue, at least a better clue, of how to use it and how to duplicate it.
Because from all indications, the propagation is instantaneous.
And I know that upsets everything.
But remember, gravity in itself distorts time and space.
And every way we attempted to measure the propagation from the reactor base to the emitters themselves, there was no delay at all.
And so I believe that I don't know if the wave is actually propagating instantly or the fact that it's a gravitational wave is distorting the time space around it and making it appear as it's an instantaneous propagation, but those are the results that we got.
There's still a flat 20 minutes between our little robot orbiters and things of that sort.
You know, here you have the potential if, in fact, there is instantaneous propagation of gravitational waves, Here's a fantastic communication device where there's no delay, where you can talk in real time at great distances.
So obviously there's just tremendous implications of this technology.
Well, yeah, there's something unique about that element, just like there's something unique about the nuclear elements we use in reactors.
But something apparently happens different there that doesn't, and I know there were previous attempts to duplicate what was going on with other materials, other nuclear materials, and there was no success in that.
So there is something very unique about the fuel and specifically what it is, you know, on an atomic scale.
Bob, I heard some rumors about some kind of speculating about or perhaps lab work going on something surrounding element 115.
It's just between when you told your story and now, sometime or another, I remember hearing about some legit science dabbling with the concept of 115 or something.
I mean, we certainly observed some unique properties of it.
It's incredibly heavy and incredibly dense.
Aside from that, the way the reactor worked in the craft was like a small accelerator, and it constantly bombarded the 115, which transmuted and immediately decayed, and that's when it produced its gravitational pulses.
And as a byproduct, it produced a tremendous amount of heat.
unidentified
And inside this one, all right, we're at the bottom of the hour.
And how the 115 itself was bombarded, released, in some way, shape, or form, releases a pulse of a gravitational wave, and kind of as a byproduct, releases a tremendous amount of heat, and that heat is converted to electricity, which runs the craft.
However, there's no wiring or any conventional connectors or controls or anything of that sort on the craft.
But all incredibly fascinating, and to a scientist, it's a dream come true.
So, yeah, sure, in some respects, I regret the way things turned out, but I don't know.
Maybe eventually we'll all find out what's going on.
I really wonder as the world grows short of oil and the wars are raging because of it, and we prepare to go back to the moon, maybe in the shuttle of all things.
I don't know.
It just seems like if all of this really is there, and yet, and yet I guess the answer is that you suggest we have, as of, well, the date you knew anyway, not been successful in the back engineering attempt, so we don't have it down yet.
Or if we do, for some reason, we're not willing to begin to release it.
I mean, you'd think they could do it through industry, you know, sort of sliding things slowly into industry as some development or something just to get it into the economy.
Well, you may recall if you ever heard Colonel Corso's story before he passed on, that he suggested that's exactly how a number of things made it from the Roswell crash to modern industry.
This is Alan from Colorado, and I have three questions, so I hope you can bear with me.
My first question is, if Altrich Ames of the CIA can go to jail for so many years because he revealed government secrets, how is it that Bob was able to pull this off?
T. Townsend Brown, John Searle, Victor Schauberger with his vortex technology, John Keel, Otis T. Carr, all these researchers, which this relates to the second question, and I think I know how you're going to answer it.
How do you feel about what they've so-called contributed to gravitational propulsion technology?
Now, I'm not belittling these people that are doing this work.
You know, D. Domson Brown, many others were brilliant people doing work, and I think a lot of the things they observed have other explanations.
Yes.
And, you know, just because something lifts off the ground does not make it gravity propulsion.
But gravity propulsion, I define as something that's acting directly against gravity, and I don't mean being lifted by electrostatic force or something like that, something that's actually counteracting.
Yes, for over 20 years, I've been within the research of exobiology.
I don't want to mention any names, but my ex-father-in-law, who was with the CIA at Groom Lake before he died of Agent Orange, he asked me if there's anything I would like to know about Area 51.
And I said, yes.
Is the government cover-ups of UFOs and ETs true?
He said, yes, because he stood guard several feet away within one of the hangar bays guarding ETs from the UFO that was being brought from one place to another.
See, he was all fed up with the government for what they were doing to him because he spent so much time in the service and all that, you know, with them that they wouldn't do any more for him.
Okay, the way he did it was doing the old high school science class project, just lay a bar magnet on a table and put the paper on it and sprinkle the iron filings on it.
There's going to be a place, Bob, where the metaphysical, or something in the metaphysical, square on, meets science, and science suddenly will say, oh, my God, there is another side.
Or, oh, my God, we really now suddenly have proof to some degree of a soul, some way to prove something in the metaphysical.
Who knows what it might turn out to be, but somewhere science and metaphysical will suddenly meet, I predict it.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Bob Lazar.
115, and they were able to measure it and deduce that it had element 115 in it.
And also the other reference is for 116 through about 124 at the end of the article.
It says they were measured in mica schist that was in Africa.
So in mica schist, which is, I guess, a rock formation, there's trace when they bombard it with a VandiGraft generator at high energy, gives off a pattern of atomic, some signature that shows that those elements were there.
Unless you're carrying a nuclear power plant behind you.
You just can't.
Water doesn't come apart that fast.
And there are flash ways, in fact, I met a physicist from Sandia Labs here and was talking to him, and they have this neat device that kind of works on a plasma pulse and cracks water at much higher volume than electrolysis.
And in fact, a guy emailed me recently that has something that does that with hydrocarbons.
But as far as driving a car and having and producing hydrogen by electrolysis from water at a volume great enough to keep the car running, it's never going to happen.
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So you are required really to generate the hydrogen at some other time, some other place, and then pipe it into the car and store it.
Our product is a small hydrogen generator, kind of like a dishwasher.
Sits in your garage, solar panels, and it takes two to three days to fill the tanks because it takes a lot of energy and it takes a long time to do it.
Now, there are faster ways, but they consume more power, well, some don't, but are more complicated, don't use water, so on and so forth.
Ours is low-cost, just uses, connects to the water line, uses solar panels, and slowly cranks out hydrogen.
And you can, over a period of two to three days, fill the tanks in your car, and then you can drive 700 miles.
Ideally, you'd have several sets of tanks and just fill them and whatnot, but that's it's the only way to do it.
I've been playing with hydrogen fuel systems since the late 70s, and you just can't make it fast enough.