Bruce Moen explores India and Pakistan’s nuclear standoff, where a 35-kiloton Pakistani warhead could devastate cities like Delhi or Karachi in days, citing Pakistan’s ISI ties to extremists. He dismisses deterrence theories, noting China’s claims of survivability, and warns geopolitical tensions ensure future conflicts. Shifting to the afterlife, Moen describes belief-driven realms—Focus 23 (self-made traps), "hollow heavens" (rule-bound illusions), and Focus 27 (free existence)—using Monroe Institute techniques to contact deceased souls, like a man’s mother or a Masonic grandfather stuck in guilt. Callers verify experiences, such as Dr. Mudd’s wife’s lingering scent tied to her pardon visit. Moen’s model suggests afterlife destinations mirror life’s convictions, not divine reward, with 10%+ of listeners potentially testing his methods. [Automatically generated summary]
You've got to have an attitude about this kind of thing.
You know, if they're going to go to war, there's not a whole hell of a lot we can do about it.
Or maybe there is.
You know, Rid Holand the other night was saying there is.
We could actually stop it if it got started.
I'm not as confident about that.
This is what Stephen Quayle has on his website is really cool.
I don't know.
I kind of like it.
By the way, you'll notice on my website tonight, on the webcam photo, I've got a Premier Network Operations t-shirt on.
They just sent that to me.
Thank you very much, guys.
And in celebration of that, I think...
And so where is my network?
They're in Sherman Oaks, California.
So I think I'm going to blow them up.
Let's see.
Why?
Well, let's go over.
Let's see.
One megaton surface blast.
That sounds good.
One megaton surface blast fallout map.
Damage map fallout map.
Let's go with the damage map and make it one megaton.
And let's go down here and put in Sherman Oaks, California, U.S. And now all we have to do is hit the detonate button, which is red.
And looks like it detonates somewhere near Oxnard Street.
And let's see.
There's the network.
Oh, no, it wouldn't be there.
Wouldn't be there.
In fact, it blasted out to Burbank, actually.
Well, there went the network.
All right.
In a moment, back to Stephen Quayle.
Hell, Stephen, I really like your map damage setup here.
Destroying the network was actually somewhat satisfying, hitting that red button.
You know how you could make it even a little better?
You would need some moving GIFs, but what you have is you have a mushroom cloud, and you show it detonating at the precise place, and then spreading out, and then you have little red rays that are the radiation.
Just a suggestion.
Yeah.
The other thing good about that is you can show the fallout pattern.
The fallout pattern would be good, too.
You could extrapolate that.
Absolutely.
Because you could even extrapolate that into a biological release because, obviously, the winds, there's an assumption in this model.
And by the way, it's not mine.
I did not develop this.
I just want to make it clear, but we wanted to put it on the website so people could see.
Also, there's that Nuclear War Survival Skills.
That's a book that's free that people can download.
I find that people don't understand, you know, because they've put it out of their mind or just haven't had to deal with it before.
But on the same page over to the left, Nuclear War Survival Skills, that's written by Cress and Kearney.
It's free, and it's probably the best source of information if someone wants to know what they can do.
Jamie, here's a question for you.
Suppose I were to say to you that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not sufficient, obviously, not sufficient lessons for the world.
And that if there is to be a nuclear detonation somewhere in the world, India and Pakistan, from our point of view here in the States, look like a much better contemporary example to the world of what not to do than an exchange between China and the U.S. or Russia and the U.S. or anybody in the U.S. In other words, having it happen over there, from our point of view, probably would provide a lesson the world perhaps never would forget, or is that ignoring all history?
I don't know.
Well, I think you're onto something there because not only would it maybe teach a lesson, but it could bring about a cry, couldn't it, for a world government and a world police force, and we've got to prevent this sort of thing from happening.
See, I don't believe it's going to stay contained over there.
Art, before we went into Afghanistan on our operation over there, remember the big issue was who controlled Pakistan's nuclear weapons?
Because Osama bin Laden and Mullah Omar and some of those guys made the claim they do.
And so I want to throw a wildcard into this whole scenario right now.
If for any reason the terrorists have control of some of the weapons, a couple of the weapons, I can tell you this, that I don't think Bagram Air Force or Bagram Air Force Base is in Afghanistan as a safe place to be because I think that the Taliban and Al-Qaeda are pretty much kissing cousins with the Pakistani intelligence service, which is called the ISI.
And that's never been satisfied.
The question is who really does control?
Ultimately, the Pakistani military controls theirs.
Now, you asked me what the percentage of what I thought the percentage of.
If there's a terrorist incident, another provocative incident, I'd say it's 99%.
If not, I'd put it right now, right at this point, at 80% between Pakistan and India.
80%?
89%.
99%.
You know, Pakistan has been claiming that it has been stopping the infiltration of the area by extremists.
What do you really think that the U.S. position in all this is?
I had Rich Hoagland on the other night.
You know what he said?
He said that we have the technology to actually blast those things In the lift phase and prevent that war essentially from occurring?
Do you think we do?
Yes, I do, but I think what Richard Hoagland's missing is the fact that you can have low, very low technology delivery systems.
You know, we're talking about missiles.
In an intercontinental ballistic missile, we have our different space-based weapons platforms that are operational.
When you're talking about some of what the really short-range ballistic missiles are, I don't think that we have the time because, again, seven minutes.
Now, if we wanted to facilitate and basically target each and every launcher, and my question is, could we find them all?
We couldn't seemingly find all the scuds during Desert Storm.
You remember when Saddam Hussein was moving them around the desert?
I would just say this.
I find it highly unlikely because pretty much Pakistan is going to be using F-16 aircraft.
They're going to be using aircraft, you know, nuclear bombs in addition to their missiles.
And I can tell you this, no one ever tells the truth.
You can bet your bottom dollar when they're saying they have this many, they probably have more.
So, you know, really trying to focus in on who's got what is almost maybe it's counterproductive.
The point is that these guys, both these countries, have to understand that this isn't just throwing sticks and stones with a bigger stick and a bigger stone, that the ramifications are going to be awesome.
Getting back to your question, could it be used as, let's just call it this, a guinea pig type exchange to bring about a change in world perspective?
It's a real macabre way to look at all this, for sure.
But I don't think it's unreasonable because, again, the thing is, is that in order to bring, quote, the world under the one world government an umbrella, they're going to have to say, look at what, look at the world's on the verge of destroying itself.
Now, if you throw in the Middle East going up simultaneously, and look at all the, I don't, you know, Fox and MSNBC, they're carrying nuclear terrorist stuff every single hour on the island.
Answer this for me, Stephen.
If the balloon went up with India and Pakistan, what do you think China's readiness condition would turn to?
What do you think the Russians' readiness condition would turn to?
And here in the U.S., do you think that Putin and the president got that straightened out when they last talked?
I mean, they had to see this conceivably coming, so it had to be like one of the topics.
Absolutely.
Russia is on India's side.
Russia a week ago stated that they would provide an uninterrupted flow of arms and materials into India.
China is backing Pakistan, and see, that's the other wildcard.
And we're basically probably behind the scenes backing India, I would bet.
And the thing that's understand, the only one force that can really challenge China in the years to come would be a nuclear India with about 1,000 warheads.
That's a billion people to their billion, too.
So in other words, I'm trying to look behind the scenes here, and we're beginning to do that.
In other words, if the balloon went up, we and the Russians probably would be on India's side, sorta, and the Chinese would be on Pakistan's side, sorta.
Correct.
And you've got to wonder about all that a little bit.
How far would China go in supporting Pakistan, do you think?
Well, China's got a mutual defense pact with Pakistan.
You remember when Musharraf was over with the Premier of China a couple weeks ago, actually about a month ago now, and they basically reconfirmed their commitment.
I think the other question that people have to ask, will this provide some kind of a springboard to Taiwan?
Because right now, as you and I are talking, the Chinese have their whole military operations going on, you know, their war game, so to speak.
So it kind of, what bothers me is all these events seem to be clustering right now.
And when events cluster, it's kind of like the old, you know, putting all the fuel rods into the reactor at the same time.
Something's got to give.
And that's what I'm really concerned about.
Actually, I think it's the other way around.
Isn't it when you pull the fuel rods out that the reaction goes wild?
Right.
Fuel rods actually.
And I'm just using it in a different sense of the word.
Actually, you know, in essence, everything is going.
You fission.
I'm talking fusion.
I'm talking everything's going into critical mass.
Yeah, it's a very hard time right now.
There's no question about it.
And in order to, for me anyway, for me to mentally handle this, I almost have to get light about it.
I don't know why.
It's just too, the magnitude of it is too horrifying to contemplate.
And so I sort of cop an attitude about it, I guess.
Well, I think the best way to deal with it is people really, you know, like again, you know, they can download Nuclear War Survival Skills written by a physicist, written by a guy that worked at Oak Ridge Laboratories, Cresson Kearney.
It's all low-tech stuff, and it gives them a feel for what can happen.
I think also the thing that people need to recognize is that this is serious.
This is no longer, you know, hi, turn on Channel 7, hear about the nuclear war that may be happening, and then go watch the baseball game.
I think people have to prioritize what they're saying.
And I think our country, the United States, is really, really missing the boat here because they could be telling people, look, the world's changed.
You remember the 60s, you know, that we should have an active civil defense program nationally, like Switzerland, Finland, all of the Scandinavian countries do, but why don't we?
Russia is a very important part of the country.
What about the old saying that if a major war occurred, let's say the worst happened, we and the Russians were to back India, China backs Pakistan, we get mixed it up with them a little bit.
So a lot of people have said, well, I would rather not survive a major nuclear war, and the survivors would be the sorry ones.
What about that attitude?
There's a lot of that out there, you know.
Well, sure, that attitude, though, generally the people that say that won't end up at ground zero, and I think it's kind of an escape.
It's easier to make that statement than to prepare.
I think if the people would think about, when I say preparing, look, the bottom line is that we've talked about this on your show before.
People have got to know this, that under the current, not only this administration, but previous administrations, no effort or expense was made on civil defense, civilian defense.
We even see that in the hurricanes when, you know, FEMA and the government agencies try and get in there and help.
They're basically too late, and it takes them too long to get what's needed.
It won't do people any good to have potassium iodide, you know, stuck in different cities around the country if there's a terrorist attack in this country and all transportation comes to a halt.
You know, the point that I'm trying to make is this, is that, again, and I agree with you, you've almost got to be almost a little bit sarcastic, cynical, and kind of gloss it over because we're talking about some pretty dramatic things.
And the dramatic things that can take place over there can affect us here.
And the question is, will any of the Muslim terrorists in Pakistan in conjunction with the Moslem terrorists?
And I'm only saying because they've made the statement.
Al-Qaeda are terrorists.
They are making the statement that we're going to get it.
Did you see that article two days ago that Al-Qaeda said, get ready, we're going to get it?
Oh, yes.
How did you come up with the, I mean, from $12 million to $100 and something million.
How do you make that jump?
Well, you make that jump when you figure out that the first $12 million number was pretty much based on assuming that there was a 10% usage of weapons.
And then the deal is U.S. Air Force using that specific computer program, that's how they came up with it.
Those are the U.S. Air Force's numbers, not mine.
So if you just take, like I said, you take the three cities, Delhi, Bombay, and Karachi, there's 38 million people right there.
And we can't do the little map of blast for them.
But the point being is that when you do, you know, just project the average yield...
By the way, the average yield on a Pakistani warhead is considered to be about 35 kilotons, okay?
And the deal is that India claims...
Well, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, there's different opinions, but let's just say this.
It's a good, solid three to five times that size, because Hiroshima was one yield, and Nagasaki, see, where the bombs are exploded, you know, you're saying surface burst.
Surface burst is obviously on the surface of the earth.
An airburst actually does more damage.
The surface burst produces more fallout.
And so, you know, I would pretty much do that.
How do you kill more people, with a surface burst or an airburst?
Probably in the density of population, the way it is, you know, either one's going to accomplish it because you're talking about some of these cities are so densely populated, it really won't make any difference.
Wouldn't it be lower tech to have a surface burst, in other words, go off when you hit the ground?
Oh, yeah.
And also, you could put that in the back with pickup and get, you know, somebody to drive it into town.
You know, see, that's what people forget.
The same thing with ships.
You know, Pakistan's got seaports, so does India.
And what most people don't realize is India's got about, I think, 42 ships, the fourth largest navy in the world.
Then what about the old mutual assured destruction?
And indeed, 100 million dead or better, that's mutual assured destruction, suicidal.
They are, no matter who launches first, they're not going to be able to win and decapitate the outside.
The outside is going to be able to react.
There's going to be an exchange, and it is utter, absolute suicide.
And by the way, I've seen articles saying that after it's all over, the U.S. would have to go in and clean it all up.
Well, India doesn't believe it's mutual assured destruction.
And for the record, Russia never operated under that principle, although they never launched on us.
They felt that a nuclear war, I'm saying they felt that it was survivable.
That's the Chinese' current statement, too, in what are called their white papers.
China makes no bones about it.
They believe they will basically fight a nuclear war with the United States and that they will survive.
Do you think that if there was a war between India and Pakistan that didn't escalate beyond that point and 100 million died, would that be enough for the world to say, okay, we can see we learned our lesson.
This is something we've all got to get rid of.
Bring on.
And I'll tell you why, because you still have the guy with 10 sheep and the guy with five sheep and the guy with 10 sheep is still going to want the other guy's five sheep.
In other words, you're not going to get Russia and China to lay down their arms.
I doubt you're going to get the United States to lay down its arms.
You know, it's kind of funny because it's like the old adage.
Once the genie's out of the bottle, and boy, the genie's plural are out of the bottle, you know, you can't put them back in.
And I think that the point that people...
Yeah, and the point is that you're talking about reasonable people.
I would assume that having read the Pakistani War Doctrine in the last 48 hours and listening to their biggest generals, both retired and active, and they basically say, hey, it's a given.
We'll have to go this way.
And India is saying, it's a given.
We're going to go in, boys, and we're going to basically ask you to make the supreme sacrifice in a decisive war.
Who do you think is likely to start the conventional aspect of the war?
Well, the conventional aspect, you know, I mean, I don't know if you consider it war, but I mean, there's a lot of fire.
Yeah, I know there's gunfire and artillery going right now.
But I mean, you know, when the troops move into each other's territory, I think that will have to be India to initiate it.
So India starts the conventional aspect of it.
Pakistan probably starts the nuclear aspect of it.
Correct.
India retaliates.
And from there, it heats up, and we get to our 72 hours.
Now, the other thing is that the terrorists, okay, if the terrorists, meaning the guys that are India is saying to Mushar, if you've got to rein these guys in or we're going to war, they could initiate something.
And again, the thing that I'm concerned about is to the degree that those guys are willing to go.
And we all know the degree they're willing.
They don't care about their lives.
So, you know, the point is that jihad is jihad.
And what people don't understand is the Hindus and the Muslims do not have much love for each other.
And so, you know, that's what's scary.
By the way, it's interesting.
6,500 years ago in the Indians' writings in the Mahabharata, they talk about a nuclear war.
And so it's kind of interesting, isn't it?
If that was one of the places in prehistory, even Dr. Oppenheimer of the famous Manhattan Project, the guy that brought us the atom bomb, he believed that the Indians were the first ones to actually experience ancient atomic warfare.
Now, people may say, well, that's really far out, but that guy was no slouch.
And here we are right now, 6,500 years later in the same battlefield, and they're ready to turn the sea to glass.
And you're thinking the odds are pretty heavily in favor of this is going to happen, huh?
Well, I would say.
I don't believe the news.
I take the news that comes from that area and just forget it, throw it out, any kind of news about what's going on.
people may recall that there was peace being preached by the Japanese just before they hit Pearl Harbor.
So you can take the news and just throw it out.
It means nothing.
Maybe this will go away and maybe everything will be all right, or maybe there's going to be a nuclear war.
But whatever the news is telling you tonight, it's bull.
And we're going to be looking at the afterlife and proof of the afterlife.
Bruce Moen is a self-described, ordinary guy.
And I'll tell you what, before I get into that, let me address a couple of things.
Number one, it was Ed Dames, not Richard Hoagland, who said that we have the ability to stop a nuclear war in India and Pakistan should begin in the lift phase, launch phase.
My brain cells.
Going, going, gone.
From Austin, Texas, Brian, just clean this up, says, hi, Art, I'm 29-year-old.
This is on the computer.
And have never experienced any political situation like the world is in right now.
Is there anything you can compare it to?
Matter of fact, Brian, yes, there is.
I was in the Air Force, and I was at Amarillo Air Force Base, which now no longer exists in the Panhandle of Texas.
I went there after BASIC and was working in a hospital and went through the Cuban missile crisis there.
And I was the guy who got to answer the red phone.
This red phone would ring.
I mean, it never rang.
But in this case, it rang.
And I picked it up, and it was a DEF CON notification.
We raised our DEF CON level.
And believe me, for those who lived through it, the Cuban Missile Crisis Crisis was more of a political situation, in my estimation, than we have now in India and Pakistan.
In that, had it gone wrong, of course, it would have meant an all-out nuclear war with the Soviet Union at that moment.
And we really were headed that way.
As close as India and Pakistan are right now, believe me, the U.S. and the Soviets were right there.
I mean, their ships were coming and coming and coming.
And we put up the blockade and their ships stopped.
And everybody here was hanging by a nail on what was going to happen.
And we thought there was better than even odds that we were about to go into an all-out nuclear war, end everything kind of war.
So burned into my older memory than yours, Brian, is believe me, that you pick up that red phone and you hear a DEF CON notification on a SAC base and you got B-52s taken off every 11 seconds.
So there was that.
Brian.
Now, Bruce Mullen.
Bruce Mullen is a self-described, regular guy, ordinary guy, driven by intense curiosity since early childhood to know if we humans continue to exist after death.
Boy, me too.
He has Never had a near-death experience, doesn't claim any special psychic gift or talent, unusual for this show, that would allow him to explore our afterlife any better than you can.
And yet, he claims his curiosity led to knowing that we all continue to exist after death indeed, and that our afterlife can be described, Moen, as a mechanical engineer.
Now, how's that?
Where do you get from mechanical engineer to this?
By profession who began actively exploring our afterlife after learning the basic techniques taught in the Monroe Institute's Lifeline Program in 1992.
Over the next three and a half years, Moen continued to use those techniques in an attempt to prove to himself that the afterlife exists, all the while feeling certain he was making up any evidence that he gathered as part of some fabricated grand self-deceptive hoax.
Then something happened, and it convinced him that the afterlife is indeed real.
During a contact with the deceased father of a friend, Mohen brought back information verified as accurate that he had no other way of knowing except through contact with the deceased man.
That's the subject we'll take up.
Since then, Moen has developed a system of simple techniques and exercises that he teaches in a two-day workshop that anyone can use to explore our afterlife and prove to themselves through their own direct experiences that it is real.
And so we will have him tonight, though we don't have a two-day workshop, but tonight we'll make him take you through that.
So if you want to try and explore the afterlife's reality, well then keep on listening tonight, because that's where we're going.
Gee, I guess I ought to take a picture of this, huh?
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Now, how would you like to feel 10 years younger in 10 weeks?
Well, as a general proposition, that sounds pretty good, right?
Although you can't know what it feels like because nobody gets younger, or at least that's the way it was.
It used to be that way.
There was no way.
Now, there is anti-aging science, and anti-aging science has come up with HGH, human growth hormone, a factor which first will cause you to begin to feel young, and then will cause you to begin to look young, and in fact, actually get younger, have better vision, better memory.
Had I been taking it, I'd have been able to certainly remember that it was Ed Dames, not Richard Hoagland.
So I guess I should try a little myself, shouldn't I?
It's a natural formula.
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You know, you've got to stay on it.
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We'll include a $20 value book explaining what's going on with you as you take it.
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This is a subject that for me, and I think for almost everybody everywhere of every persuasion, is really important, and that is whether we continue our existence after physical death or not, because physical death comes really quickly.
I mean, we're only here for a very short period of time indeed.
Well, and in fact, about the same time in my childhood, I had a recurring daydream that later, probably in my mid-20s, I began to wonder about.
The elements of this recurring daydream were the sort of thing that a five- or six-year-old boy would have no knowledge of.
And in my mid-20s, I began to wonder just how it was possible that that happened and read a stack of books and discovered that other people talked about this thing called reincarnation.
And I'd have to say that for me, reincarnation became part of my truth.
Yes, I would say that with the explorations I've done since then, that it's gotten a little trickier to talk about, but I would continue to agree that we come to this physical world more than once.
Well, I guess I would say that after I answered my first great question, knowing or believing that reincarnation was true, I began to focus on that second one.
What am I supposed to do while I'm here?
And I would submit that there's no 20-something-year-old person that has a prayer of answering that.
But since that time, primarily as a result of exploring this afterlife and beyond there, I would say that there are primarily two purposes.
And the first one I would say is that, well, I'll cut it down to one.
That we as human beings exist for the purpose of learning to experience and express unconditional love to an ever greater degree.
That, in my opinion, that's the purpose of humankind.
That means, for example, the people that blew up our buildings in New York and hit the Pentagon and all the rest of it, we should unconditionally love them.
Well, I guess what I would say is that you can learn how to love unconditionally both by experiencing unconditional love and by experiencing the lack of it.
Well, we're really here to discuss the afterlife, and you apparently have become convinced, or stop me if I'm wrong, through what you've done that there is an afterlife.
I mean, I've been in electronics All my life, since I was a child, and there are specific answers to specific questions and specific things that you can do, and everything follows good, solid scientific logic.
And so, how does an engineer who practices the same sort of thing approach trying to prove the afterlife?
How do you do that?
How do you make that from an engineering point of view?
Well, I guess I would say, first of all, that being an engineer in regarding to exploring our afterlife, as an engineer, I had to approach it from a critical thinking style, the style of an engineer that says, I have to have hard physical evidence or there's no way I can believe this.
And so my basic approach was to try to find a way to get evidence of the existence of this afterlife that could somehow be verified physically.
And my approach to that was to learn how to find and communicate with deceased people through the Lifeline program at the Monroe Institute.
And we can talk more details about that after a bit.
But to learn to find a way to communicate with people who were deceased, try to gather information from them I would have no other way of knowing except by communication with them, and then find a person in the physical world who knew the deceased who could either verify or refute the information that I gathered.
Well, in the beginning, it was, well, I can't say the beginning, but in my early approach to it, it was using techniques that were taught, as you mentioned in the introduction, at a place called the Monroe Institute and in a program called Lifeline.
The evidence has been, for me, repetitive and overwhelming.
So the basic approach was that in the lifeline program that Monroe founded and the program that he developed, it was based on the premise that when people die, sometimes they get stuck.
And that a physically living person could learn how to contact a person who had become stuck after death and provide the assistance that person might need to move out of being stuck to a better place.
Is it possible, first of all, is it possible to communicate with people truly on the other side, people who are not stuck, people who are on the other side already?
I would just say that it's that this process called retrieval that deals with people who are stuck was sort of the training wheels on the bicycle I used to ride around this afterlife and explore.
When you say stuck, it conjures up in my mind visions of what we call a ghost, a spirit who's still earthbound for some reason or another, is attached to some material thing or was killed this quickly, they didn't know that they're dead or something like that.
In fact, I would say that those are a couple of classic reasons why people get stuck.
Let me talk a little bit about what it means to be stuck just for a moment.
Sure.
Sometimes, through the circumstances of death, for example, someone who's killed very quickly and unexpectedly, they may, since things don't seem to change much for them, they may be a little confused as to what happened.
For example, in a workshop in New Hampshire, one of the people who was attending, a participant, in her communication with a deceased person, encountered a woman who had been waiting for a bus while she was still physically alive, and standing with her back to traffic talking to someone, absentmindedly stepped back, not realizing how close she was to the curb.
And when she fell off the curb, she was hit by a car and killed instantly.
She jumped back up onto the sidewalk, not realizing she had been killed, and attempted to continue to talk to the person who she'd been talking to before, who could now no longer see her or hear her.
It'd be interesting to find out how he knows that this occurred to that woman, that she'll back up and after being hit by the bus and continued the conversation.
I'm Art Bell.
unidentified
is Come on
in, I'll...
Open up your game And maybe tell you about the Laidra And how she gave me life And how she made it end Something that more than when
I was crazy Flowers growing on a hill Driving flies and apple dears Learn from us very much Look at
us, but do not touch Pedro is my name I'm not a man.
To reach art bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222 or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
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This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
We're discussing the afterlife, and he's proven to himself that it's real.
And before the program is over, perhaps he can prove it to all of us.
Robert in Kaiser, Oregon, along with a lot of other people, saying that the signal on KEX in Portland is popping in and out.
And I'm getting a lot of reports like that.
So if it'll help the people in Portland, that's the only place we're getting those reports from right now.
So they're probably having a localized problem in the Portland area at KEX.
That'll help them knowing that it's not widespread.
They can begin looking locally.
To me, it's always amazing the signal gets anywhere at all.
If you start here in Little Prump, Nevada, and you go up to a geosynchronous satellite 22,500 miles up, then you go back down again 22,500 miles to Oregon.
Then you go back up 22,500 miles to another satellite.
And then you go back down 22,500 miles to a ground station in New Jersey.
Then you go back up 22,500 miles to a C-band satellite.
Then you go down 22,500 miles to the various radio stations that then have a lot of electronic equipment that reproduce my signal.
So, you know, it's amazing enough that it gets from here to there to you at all ever, much less most of the time.
So stuff happens.
Bruce Mowen, we'll be right back.
Once again, Bruce Mowen, Bruce, you described a woman hit by a bus who got up, I mean, killed instantly, got up and resumed a conversation she was having on the sidewalk.
That's an example of a person who is stuck.
Now, first of all, I guess, number one, I would ask you, how could you know that's true?
To really know whether or not it's true, the person who made contact with that deceased woman would have had to have gathered some information from her that could be verified by someone who knew the deceased woman.
And in that particular case, this was the experience of someone in my workshop.
In that particular case, it did not happen.
I have some examples from my own experience in which those kinds of things did happen.
Probably within about two years into my trying to prove this to myself, a person asked me to check on her grandmother.
Her grandmother had died about nine months before our conversation.
Asked me to check on her grandmother.
And using these techniques that I learned in the Monroe Institute's Lifeline Program, I made contact with a woman.
And it was my impression that this grandmother was sitting in a wooden chair in a kitchen, that she hadn't had two thoughts that you could have said were serial in a very long time, very confused.
My impression was that this woman had Alzheimer's.
It was that sort of confusion in her face.
And during the interaction with this woman, she was approached by two other non-physical people, one of whom she looked at and said, Maggie, Maggie, what are you doing here?
Well, it turned out the deceased woman's mother's name was Margaret and that everyone, including the deceased woman, called her Maggie.
There was one little bit of evidence and one that at the time I explained away as just an interesting coincidence.
I didn't feel that really proved it to myself.
But over a period of time, there was eventually an experience that did prove it to me.
A friend of mine's father was walking across the parking lot at a grocery store in the mountains here in Colorado and was hit by a pickup truck on a Friday afternoon, runover, and died after midnight Sunday, early Monday morning.
My friend called and said, would you please check on my dad, you know, see what's going on with him.
And when I used the techniques and made contact with him, got some information that was verified.
For example, to my perception, there was another woman there with him in his early afterlife experience who was in her maybe 30s, but his mother.
And this made no sense to me as the man was about 87.
It turned out that the man's mother had died when he was 11.
She came into the scene appearing as she would have at the age she died.
But the real clincher for me was that in my communication with him, he was just adamant that I say the word punky.
And I assume that when he said it to me, my immediate reaction was, oh, he's giving me a pet name for her.
This is what he called her when she was a little girl.
Yes.
And when I relayed the information to his daughter, she said, well, no, it's a pet name, but it's not what he called me.
She said, from the time I arrived at the hospital after his accident until he died, every time he was conscious, he made me promise I would take care of his little dog, Punky, if he died.
Well, the way I do that now, I've kind of developed my own system for that, but I would say that one of the most important aspects to understand is that the way we perceive these deceased people and the way we perceive our communication with them is to use our imagination as the means of perceiving.
There's a story that claims that someone once told St. Joan of Arc, Joan, these voices you hear are just in your imagination.
To which she supposedly replied, well, of course, that's where you hear them.
And then imagine or pretend that your grandfather sits down next to you and begin what in the beginning is a completely and entirely fabricated fantasy conversation with this grandfather.
Or you might say, you know, hi, Grandpa, my name is Art.
At this juncture, that's really interesting stuff, Bruce.
That really is interesting.
I'll give you that.
Now, a lot of people are going to say, brother, you don't know what you're letting yourself in for.
When you put yourself in that state and you invite the dead to have a conversation with you, you are opening a door through which something might come that you will not be happy with.
I would say that in the 10 years I've been doing this, I've certainly encountered dead people, or perhaps a better way of saying this, non-physical people, that if I met them on the street here, I'd cross the street to avoid them.
And it has to do with the power of the energy of love.
I would suggest, and as I teach it in my workshop, I would suggest that whenever someone encounters anything that causes them to feel fear, that that fear is either my own Fear, my own beliefs.
For example, maybe I believe in Banshees.
Maybe I'm Irish descent, and I believe that there are banshees, and I believe that when I die, one's going to come and get me.
It's possible that if I, as a physical person, explore non-physically, I may encounter a banshee.
And that banshee may actually be fabricated out of my own fear.
And my suggestion is that in my experience and exploration, I found that there's something called the law of love and fear that says love and fear cannot coexist.
If I encounter something that causes me to feel fear, if I do something to cause myself to feel love, I don't mean just think about it, I mean feel it, and project that love energy to whatever it is that's causing me to feel fear, one of two things will happen.
If it's my own fear taking form, it'll just disappear, and I've seen this happen over and over.
The other possibility is that my own fear is sort of making a mask over something that's really there, in which case the mask disappears and I see what's really there.
The other possibility is I'm dealing with someone who's just not a very nice person, who's doing everything they can to cause me to feel fear.
Love and fear cannot be in the same place in the same time.
Yes, and I would say that one's beliefs can really play into this.
Part of my own afterlife exploration and what I've done with that is to work with people who might be described as schizophrenic, people who hear voices, people, and in some cases more than just hear voices, are dealing with exactly the sort of thing you're talking about, that they are essentially in contact with what they perceive to be a demon.
Well, why shouldn't I imagine that the people voluntarily or perhaps involuntarily got into the state you're talking about right now and something got invited in and now they're going to spend the rest of their life in a mental hospital?
Suppose I were to tell you, I think that I believe you that this can be done, but that I don't particularly want to talk to the dead.
I have enough trouble with the living, frankly, and I'm not so sure that I actually want to talk to the dead, although I'm driven to try and understand if it's real or not, like everybody is.
So that might drive me to it, but I'm not compelled to talk to the dead.
Yes, and if those were your feelings, I certainly wouldn't push the issue.
Because it may be that, see, thoughts are things within these non-physical realities like our afterlife.
And someone who holds beliefs that there are demons out there waiting for me may encounter them, and that can cause some serious difficulty, even if they're only imagined demons, and so I certainly wouldn't push it.
And I'll use the labels that Robert Monroe used from his out-of-body explorations, not the way I do it, but his labels.
He labeled one area something called Focus 23.
He was very generic in his labels.
This afterlife area is an area where people are stuck.
These are people who have physically died, and through their expectations, their individual beliefs, the circumstances of their death, they've gotten stuck in an isolated, self-created reality.
You could say trapped in their own dream.
The second major area I would describe in our afterlife is one that Monroe called the belief system territories.
You know, my only disappointment with the Lutheran Church, this guy named Martin Luther couldn't quite swallow all the things he was told to believe, And so he decided to try to go out and find the truth for himself.
And my only disappointment in the church I was raised in is that it tells its followers to believe what Luther found instead of do what he did.
That always brings me back to reality when a bullet hits both.
Good morning, everybody.
My guest is Bruce Moet, and we're talking about whether or not there's an afterlife, where you go when you die.
And he's just told you how you can actually talk to the dead if you so desire.
Basically, it seems to boil down to putting yourself into a state of relaxation.
There are various methods of doing that, breathing exercises.
You can use those.
Somebody taught me, because I've always had trouble sleeping, how to put myself in a relaxed state by, as you're lying in bed all tense and unable to sleep, you start with your finger and you relax your finger intentionally.
You just make it relax.
And then your hand.
And then your arm, and then your chest, and then your other hand, your arm, your chest, your legs.
You force them to relax.
And before you know it, you did it and you're asleep somewhere in the process.
Before you've relaxed your entire body, you're going to fall asleep.
So that's a relaxation technique as well.
And so you get into this relaxation technique, however you put yourself there.
That's what it boils down to.
And then you begin to use your imagination and set up a scenario where, for example, you are sitting down next to your dead grandfather in a setting of your choice, you know, on a riverbed, whatever, on a bridge, who cares, wherever.
And then you begin a fantasy conversation with this person.
And you wait for the unexpected, unintended consequences.
He says something to you that didn't come from your imagination, and that begins the process, and you're now talking with the dead.
So I want to obviously know a little of the nature of where we go when we die, and that's kind of where we're going here in a moment.
Any of you out there want to give this a try, you're welcome to try it at home, but beware of the possible consequences, because, of course, as Bruce said, you never quite exactly know who's coming through the door once you get it open.
Yes, and I would say that any belief held by a group, such as a religion, that describes an afterlife environment like a heaven actually creates a reality that is that heaven.
And that people who hold the set of beliefs that that reality was created around at death may be attracted into it.
So good Lutherans may be attracted into Lutheran heaven.
And that those places are populated exclusively by those who share that set of beliefs.
It's also possible that the real belief system that they are involved with, one in which such horrific acts of terrorism are part of their belief system.
Yes, and they may end up in a place where they're living exclusively with others who hold exactly the same beliefs and perpetrate such acts on everyone else in that belief system territory.
There may be only terrorists like themselves who are bent on these heroic acts of horrific terrorism and perpetrating them on the other members of that belief system territory.
Thief's hell, a place that is populated entirely by thieves.
The description is in my fourth book, Voyage to Curiosity's Father.
But in the exploration that a friend of mine and I did of this place, it turned out that being a thief is really a system of beliefs.
And we're not talking about someone who just steals occasionally.
We're talking about a real hardcore thief.
And in an exploration a friend of mine did of thief's hell, what we found was that people who hold that belief system, that belief system of a thief, may be attracted into a place that is populated entirely by thieves who spend their time stealing from everyone else in that hell and being stolen from everyone else in that hell.
As you have spoken to people in heaven or in the place they have created for themselves that they think is heaven, have you also spoken to people in the place they have created for themselves, their hell?
He described that after his death, when he first arrived, he arrived in a place that to him looked just as real as our physical world does to us, in an area of that belief system territory that was probably very much like an inner city just thick with thieves.
And that he spent his time doing his best not to be stolen from and stealing from everyone he could.
Over a period of time, formed a relationship with a woman who was also there, and the two of them sort of worked various cons together.
That it's more typical, at least from the information I got from this fellow I interviewed, it's more typical that his life in Thieves' Hell, he eventually began to see the futility of it all.
That no matter how much he stole, it was always stolen from him.
And he began to, I would say, lose some of that belief system.
And at that point, the story he told was that he and the woman had eventually moved sort of to the countryside in this hell, not the inner city.
And there was a knock at the door one night.
And when he opened the door, here stands a man that he immediately realizes is a master thief who's running a game on him called Innocent Sucker.
The man at the door is obviously a master thief who's trying to lull him into a false sense of security by acting as a bundling thief.
And he said, I realized immediately this was the Innocent Sucker con, so I began to run the counter-innocent sucker con in which you intend to pretend to be taken in.
He said, the way this con works is the fellow who's running Innocent Sucker is pretending to be a pretty low-level bumbling thief only to scope out your stuff to determine what your most precious thing is, and he fully intends to come back some night and steal it.
He said, counter-innocent sucker, he said, if it's run perfectly, you pretend to be taken in, and you find out where he lives and scope out his stuff.
And when you know that tonight's the night he's coming to your place to steal your most precious thing, you go to his place and you steal his, and you hope it's something big and heavy like a candlestick because you're then sitting in your own home waiting for this fellow to come in.
And when he comes in, you flip on the lights and reveal that you know he's playing innocent sucker.
Then you beat him senseless with a candlestick, drag him out in the street, and leave him there so other thieves know to leave you alone.
But a little more with this story, because I just want to go right ahead.
So he decided to run Counter-Innocent Sucker, and when the day came that he knew he was going to have to go through with it, he again realized the futility of where he was living and what he was doing and decided he wasn't going to go through with it.
He sat in his home waiting for the person to come in, and when the person broke into the house, he snapped on the lights and revealed that he knew that he was playing innocent sucker, and he said, look, there's my most precious thing.
Just take it and get out.
And he said the next thing that happened was like somebody sort of spit him out of somewhere and he found himself floating in complete blackness.
Because the fellow who encountered him said, you have some choices to make.
He said, you can choose to go back into your hell if you like.
He said, you can choose to incarnate again in physical reality if you like.
Or you can choose to come and work at this place that I work called, the Rehabilitation Center in Focus 27, the third major area of our afterlife, which is the choice he made.
And it turned out that this Focus 27 place has something called a rehabilitation center.
This is a place where people who have either, through their own efforts, escaped their hell or have been offered a back door out of hell, as I've just described by Helper, a place where these people go and learn how to become helpers, learn how to become someone who can go back into a hell.
And my explorations so far indicate that it's more our own beliefs and lifestyle that draw us into a place that resonates with our beliefs and lifestyle.
If you can get a back door out of hell and you can get bumped up the ladder a little bit, then it seems to me let's look at the opposite and what we call heaven.
And I encountered and communicated with a man who claimed that he had been in what he called a hollow heaven, not the real one.
He explained that he had been a minister in a very small fundamentalist Christian sect.
He said fewer than 10,000 people physically living now in it.
And that all of his life he had preached about this heaven that we go to.
And that when he arrived, it was just as he expected.
He got to meet the old venerated preachers of the line.
And one of the beliefs that he had preached about was that when you went to heaven, you had to continue to obey all the rules that you had been taught while you were physically alive, including you had to go to church on Sabbath.
Because the rules said that if you weren't married, you had to live in separate homes.
And if you lived in the same home, you had to get married.
He said, I went to these people, this couple's house, many times to counsel them, to try to get them to change their ways, because I knew if I didn't, I was going to have to perform the casting out ritual.
If they continued to break the rules and wouldn't abide by the rules, I was going to have to, as I had taught as a minister, cast them into outer darkness.
Perhaps some night we'll do a whole show on your wildest dreams.
It's a very interesting topic, and it's actually kind of a parallel topic in a way to what we're doing right now.
My guest is Bruce Mowen, and we're talking about the afterlife.
He's told you how you can talk with the dead if you want to, and I'd be very interested in how some of you do if you try his description of how to do it.
Sounds like it might be eminently possible, so if you have the gonies for it, you might give it a shot.
My guest is Bruce Moen.
We'll continue to talk about the afterlife and the nature of it in a moment.
All right, once again, Bruce Moen.
Bruce, it seems like your explanation of where we go and what happens to us when we die boils down to our expectations.
And in a lot of ways, that seems without justice.
In other words, there are very bad people who do very bad things, like people who knock down the towers in the Pentagon and all the rest of it.
If their expectations are they're heroes, and they will go to the land of virgins and all the rest of it, then what you believe through your research about all of this suggests that might absolutely be true.
And that makes it seem like there's like it's unjust.
But I mean, there might be somebody else who believes that if you kill somebody and cannibalize them and eat them, you take on the power of their soul.
And in that specific case, what they may get is to, upon death, enter an area populated entirely by people who share that belief, who are running around killing and cannibalizing people.
You may end up living in a, you might call it a cannibal's hell, a place where it's truly an eye for an eye.
I mean, in other words, consciousness would continue and be aware of this utter loneliness, this utter desperation, this utter blackness, this utter nothingness.
And let me say that this retrieval process we talked about earlier is a process in which someone who learns the art of retrieval may encounter an atheist stuck in Focus 23 and may be able to assist that atheist in accepting that perhaps there are other possibilities,
perhaps there are other places to be in the afterlife, and that this person who's learned the art of retrieval may be able to help that atheist move from this desperate place they found themselves in to a much better place.
Do you think there are angels and demons, that is to say, entities that either were from God or are from God, that are separate from human souls, living or dead?
Well, it depends on whether we're talking about beings from other systems that are like our physical world, the ones you might call aliens, or whether we're talking about beings who exist, I guess I would say, within such a large perspective that human existence, it would just be a very, very small portion of their existence that they would know about.
A lot of people are sending me computer messages suggesting that you're being fooled.
This would be a Christian perspective, that you're being fooled, that these are demons that are painting a picture for you that ain't so, but you're buying it.
I would say that I'm hearing the expression of a very strong belief, and that it's a difficult one to argue against because if I encounter a deceased person who gives me information that I had no other way of knowing, that I then verify was some physically living person, I would say that Occam's razor.
The simplest explanation is that's what happened.
Someone like you're talking about would say, well, no, what you encountered was a demon who was pretending to be that person only as a way of tricking you into losing your soul.
In fact, some people who have attended my workshop have held such beliefs.
Right.
One in particular was a woman who held that belief, and unfortunately or fortunately, her own perception had opened somewhat, and every time she laid down to go to sleep, she encountered these dark demons.
And in the workshop, probably the one exercise I teach, that it was the only one I could teach, was one that she learned, one in which you do something to cause yourself to feel love and then project that love.
And in that exercise, as she closed her eyes to begin the exercise, she immediately perceived these demons she had always seen.
And as she began to cause herself to feel love, realized there was a squirt gun in her hand, a non-physical squirt gun, with a little tube connected to her heart.
And so she took the little squirt gun and gave each one of them a shot, and they all disappeared.
But yeah, Art, it's, you know, I'm not here to change anyone's beliefs about anything.
And if you choose to believe that there are demons out there, I would say that it's in some ways very similar to choosing to believe that the earth is flat and that if you sail too far from the shore, you'll fall into the great abyss.
Do you think, Bruce, that we are meant to speak with the dead?
Do you think that Mother Nature or the creative force or whatever you want to call it wants these two planes to interact or will allow these two planes to interact?
A lot of people feel whatever we call the veil is dropping and more and more people are communicating with the other side and eventually it'll be an open, kind of like an open meeting place and the living and the dead will speak all the time.
I see that in my view from what I've found, I would say that, first of all, that I've talked about the power of love.
Love also has a way of opening one's perception beyond its normal limits.
And I would say that for the last perhaps 10 years, the reality, this physical world that we live in, has been passing into what you might think of, you might think of it this way.
You might think that somewhere in the universe there is a source of pure unconditional love energy, perhaps the size of a galaxy.
And that a beam of this energy is passing through space, a rather large beam.
And thinking of it in this way, I would say that for at least the last 10 years, this place we live has been passing into that energy, and that it's begun to open people's awareness automatically, that this is part of the reason that, as you said, this veil seems to be dropping more and more, this seems to be happening.
And that in answer to your question, yes, I believe that...
Yes, and I would say that this is an opportunity for humankind to witness the dissolution of the veil, Of these barriers between these places where human beings exist to allow humankind to become a new form of being, one that is not separated into different areas of well, you know, that's one possibility, Bruce.
Yes, but as this momentum is underway, there's also this other force that seems to be pressing in very hard right now that could result in our utter destruction.
My strongest desire is that this process we're going through leads us all to understand that we're all members of the same species, we're all members of the same group, and that nuking each other is counterproductive.
I would say that the one you're talking to, this Bruce fellow, is an individual expression of a much larger being that some people might call their greater self, some might call their higher self.
Monroe called it his I there.
I call it my disk only because, in my experience, that's how I encountered it.
That I exist as an individual expression of a larger being, and that even though I'm not aware typically of that larger being, I and it are really the same being.
Are there some people who pass into the next life, hither or yon, up or down, who will not communicate with the living, who you cannot call up in the process that you described earlier?
And in her specific case, she had carried along with her some of the habits of her physical life, namely some of the habits of disease and discomfort, pain that she had in her physical life.
And a lot of what she was dealing with was sort of unlearning those habits.
I would say that for some people in that condition, they carry, at least temporarily, the habit of the wrecked body, if you will.
But that there is a place that I've explored and a number of people have explored in our afterlife in this third area called Focus 27 by Monroe, a place he labeled the Health and Rejuvenation Center, a place where people who carry such habits,
you can think of it as a hospital, as a place where people are just An example, in one of my explorations of this place, I stood in a room and watched as a man was brought in who had died in a fire.
And he was in great pain when he died.
And he was brought in and set on sort of a table that looked a little like an operating table.
A bunch of people came into the room, sitting in seats like amphitheater seats.
A man walked up to the fellow laying on the table who's under a sheet and addressed the man saying, I'm Dr. So-and-so, and I'm here to treat you today.
And I'd like you to know that you have a couple of choices.
You can choose to be healed scar-free in an instant, or if you'd like, you can take a little while with it.
The man under the sheet started laughing at how ridiculous it sounded that he could be healed scar-free instantly.
After all, he thought he was still physically alive.
And so he said, well, instantly, of course, Doc.
And when he said that, the doctor stepped back.
The other people in the room began to fill, I mean, the room began to fill Art with a feeling of unconditional love so strong it just makes my heart beat to remember.
And those people then beamed the energy of unconditional love into that man who's under the sheet.
It lasted for several seconds.
And then the doctor, with great flourish, pulled the sheet off the man, and the next thing he knew, he was standing upright in front of the doctor, instantly looking at him.
We're in the way on the crest out of the landscape.
It's like magic.
Oh, and my goodness, he's been a slave in this magic.
We still have time to get by.
Every time I think about it, I won't cry.
It's only kids keep going.
So it'll be the easy time to be alone But I'd tell myself that I was doing alright There's nothing left to do tonight That's so crazy on you Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Dive.
Each of the hells I talked about earlier appears to have sort of a corporate climber who aspires to be the biggest and the best, and that's the one that's the devil or the Satan of that hell.
And at that point, I knew there was this thing called the universe that was very large.
And so in my child's way of understanding, I decided that God must be like a big brain that's slightly larger than the universe, and that everything in the universe is just a thought in the mind of God.
And I can't really say I've improved on that much.
And yes, I would say that both heavens and hells are a part of God.
He called himself a preacher, and he said, I went to their home, and I counseled them, and I told them they either had to get married or live in separate houses.
He said, these people always did the same thing to me.
They pulled out a Bible and they opened it to a passage in which Jesus is being questioned.
It's the story of a man marries a woman, he dies.
And according to Hebrew law at the time, if he had a brother, she's now the wife of the brother.
And the brother dies, and now she's the wife of the other brother.
And in the story, the people who are quizzing Jesus say, now, in this afterlife, you claim that exists, whose wife is she?
And he said, they always pointed out that Jesus' words said, no one is taken or given in marriage in the kingdom of heaven.
He said, every time I went to tell them they had to get married or move out, they would hit me with this passage in the Bible and tell me, that's the word of Jesus Christ.
And if you're telling us something different, we're going with what Jesus said.
He said that eventually push came to shove, and one Sabbath morning, he decided today was the day, and they were standing sort of in the middle of the congregation, and he asked the couple to stand up, and he told them that today was the day.
Either you agree to get married, or you agree to move into separate houses, or I'm going to cast you out.
He said the couple came up in front of the congregation, faced the congregation, and said, if we have to give up our love for each other or go against the word of Jesus Christ in the Bible to stay here, then cast us out.
He said, I performed the ceremony, and they disappeared right in front of the congregation.
And he said, as far as I knew, I had just sent them to hell.
He said he went into his office after the service, and he was feeling a little upset about what he had done.
After all, these people did love each other, and they did have a point in the word of Jesus.
And he said, I got down on my knees, and I started praying to Jesus to know that what I did was right.
And he said, it started to get light in my office.
He said, it got intensely bright in my office.
And when I turned around to see what the light was, he said, there was Jesus Christ standing in front of me.
And Jesus said to me, the love of Christ is for all, even for those, the least of them.
And he said, I knew he was telling me that his love was even for the ones I had cast out.
He said, this was terribly upsetting.
And in fact, he went to other preachers and told the story about Jesus' visits, and they didn't know what to make of it.
He ended up speaking with some of the old venerated preachers of the time, and they told him they knew what was going on.
They said, that was not Jesus who came into your office.
That was Satan himself who came into his office.
He's trying to deceive you.
He said, this was a problem because one of the rules he had preached was that once you got to heaven, you were safe.
Satan could never get in there.
And now they were telling him that Satan had come in.
He said, this was against the rules.
He continued to be very concerned and eventually decided that he would accept the word of Jesus, who visited him in the office and began to preach that message.
Began to preach that the love of Christ was for all, even for the couple he had cast out.
Naming that couple, which was against the rules, one of the rules was if someone was cast out, you're never to mention their name again.
He mentioned their name.
He said one Sabbath morning there were two of the oldest venerated preachers of the line in his congregation, and he said, I knew what was going to happen, and they did.
He said they stood up as soon as I said the names, and they began to tell me that I was preaching the word of Satan, that I was deceiving my congregation, and I had to agree to stop, or they were going to cast me out.
And he said, I found it quite ironic.
I had to stand in front of my congregation, which had grown.
I had to add services, he said.
I found it quite ironic, he said, that I had to tell them, if I have to go against the word of Jesus Christ to stay here, then I guess you'll have to cast me out.
They came ahead and performed the ceremony, and he fully expects to find himself in hell.
He said, I found myself floating in blackness, and a light began to approach, and as the light got closer, I realized it was the same Jesus Christ who had visited my office, who explained to me that I had been in what's called a hollow heaven, and that I had some choices to make.
I could go back in, which was forbidden by the rules.
I could choose to incarnate again, or I could choose to come and work at a place called the House of God Center in Foc 27, of all things.
It's the third major area of our afterlife existence, and it's an area I would describe as one in which all the people there are in free association with all the other people there.
That no one's beliefs are forced on anyone else, no one's will is forced on anyone else.
It's a place where thoughts are things and anything you desire.
I mean, Art, maybe you'd like to live in a huge house overlooking the ocean in the tropics.
Focus 27 is a place where the act of imagining such a place creates it in a way that is so real to you that it's just like a physical reality.
A place where there's really no need to work for a living.
I mean, you want a steak, you want it done exactly the way you like it.
That it's, you know, you and I wouldn't call it physical, but the people who are there would say, I created this wonderful chair and I'm sitting in it.
I've been listening to so many of these ads tonight.
Yeah, they are.
They're great.
I, 16 months ago, discovered Bruce Moen's website and began reading his first book.
Right.
October of last year, I attended his workshop, but long before I got to his workshop, I had been very interested in wanting to know why I was here, what this was all about.
I felt I had the right to not only ask those questions, but to get proof that there is life beyond what we call death from my own direct experience.
I began applying his simple techniques, and all along I was thinking, oh, I'm just making this up.
But I went along with it.
And I, from reading Bruce's book, decided that, well, why don't I just go to Focus 27, place the intention to be there, and create a wonderful park where I could be.
So, in using my imagination, I did this.
I borrowed a park from my childhood and added some flowers and trees and whatnot.
And while I was there, something very interesting happened.
Someone appeared, and I couldn't really completely see them.
They seemed to be very bright and shiny, but I received a feeling knowing that it was my deceased mother.
Now, I'm still thinking, oh, this is interesting.
You know, I'm making this up.
But I went along with it.
And it was kind of an emotional reunion.
Still skeptical.
And then she asked me if I would just follow her somewhere.
And all of a sudden, I'm in territory that, you know, this wasn't my plan.
This is really the moment that Bruce was talking about when what you have created suddenly surprises you and something happens that is not from your imagination and it takes over.
In other words.
unidentified
The unexpected.
Something unexpected that suddenly enters into the scene.
But the important thing is to follow the knowing feelings that you get.
But anyway, I followed her, and the next thing I knew, I was in a place that seemed to be identical to my grandfather's lake home.
And she, in essence, told me that he was down on the beach all by himself.
He had been there since he died.
And I went down and approached him, and he was in a state of depression.
He was happy to see me.
It wasn't long before I discovered why he was there.
He felt that he had been responsible for his daughter's, my mother's demise, her mental problems and so forth, and her unhappiness, which he hadn't been.
But psychiatrists had told him he had been responsible before he passed away, you know, being her father-in-law.
Yes, I understand, but he was still imposing this, in essence, on himself.
unidentified
Yes, sir.
Absolutely.
Yes.
And that's what we create in that focus.
Self-imposed little isolated hells or whatever.
So I sat with him, and I was very worried about talking to him about my beliefs.
Oh, for instance, about the possibility of reincarnation and so forth, and that he didn't have to really be here in such isolation that And he seemed to take it okay, and he listened.
And then I didn't know what else to do, Art.
So I just said goodbye and hoped that I would be seeing him again.
And when I came out of this relaxed state, this contact with my grandfather, it hit me like a brick wall that I had been presented with my first retrieval experience.
And I sat down with him and was determined to perhaps talk with him and just help him to understand that he wasn't guilty for my mother's life and death.
He didn't need to be here anymore.
He could come with me to a place where he would be with others who were loving.
Bruce Moen is my guest, and we've got a young lady on the line who has followed, actually been to his seminars and done as he has suggested can be done.
And in terms of talking to the dead, she has done it.
She has done a retrieval.
We don't quite have all of the details yet, but it sounds to me like she's suggesting to us it absolutely works.
We'll get the rest of the story in a moment.
All right, once again, back to my guest, Bruce Moen, and this young lady.
And young lady, if you would please, you say you went back, and so by all means, please continue.
unidentified
Yeah, Art, I went back, and the very next day, as a matter of fact, and I was a little bit apprehensive about sitting down with my grandfather again at his beach and sharing with him my beliefs about the fact that we can live many times in the physical.
He doesn't need to be in this isolation anymore.
And I'd been reluctant simply because I had only known my grandfather to be non-religious.
He refused to go to church.
We never talked about any religious beliefs at all.
But I went ahead and shared this information with him.
And he began, he just listened a great deal.
And finally, he stood up and he was staring out at the lake, and I didn't quite know what to do next, so I was just standing there.
And he turned around and said something that completely changed my life.
He said to me, you know something, Ginny?
The Masons believed in reincarnation, too.
Well, two things there, Art.
What is this about Masons?
I did not know.
Was he saying he had been a Mason?
And number two, the Masons believe in reincarnation, and he'd even been open to that?
Bruce, I understand that you would like to have people attend your seminars, but have you told us enough in the program tonight so that people can try this with some hope of success based on what you've told us?
Certainly, as Jenny just described, she hadn't been to the seminar when she attempted this, and she got her verification right away, which is very good.
But there are more things to know.
Things like our beliefs can affect how we perceive over there and what we perceive over there.
There are a number of, certainly in a two-day seminar, there's more than just the little bit of imagination.
There are a number of concepts and ideas that I've come to understand through the years of doing this, including things like beliefs, including things like the nature of the way we perceive in non-physical reality can cause us to inaccuracy to creep in in what we're doing.
So I would say, yes, people could certainly use that method and make contact.
I've done my workshop several times in Australia, in Korea, Ireland, Germany.
The Korean one was interesting in that I didn't speak a word of Korean, and most of the people in the room didn't speak a word of English, so it was done through a translator.
And it was one of the early workshops I did, and I was quite surprised that none of those people understood a word I said.
They only understood the interpreter, and yet they all had experiences, in some cases, similar to Ginny's.
Wildcard line, you're on the air with Bruce Mohan.
Hello.
unidentified
Well, hi, Bruce.
I know you touched on this previously, but I'd like to take it a little bit deeper.
If a couple gets married and they're very in love with each other, almost on the level of soulmates, and one spouse does die and the other one's left on this physical plane, and the other one doesn't go to a hollow heaven but goes to the real afterlife, and then the one on the physical plane gets married again, and they're obviously just as deeply in love with this other person.
Now, when all three of these people, or who knows, sometimes there might be multiple marriages, and with people as deeply in love with each other, how is this resolved in heaven?
Well, in the little bit of experience I have with such things, I would say that they will be reunited in that in the afterlife, the original couple will certainly be able to meet with each other,
communicate with each other, and perhaps this idea that we can only love one person is a physical world thing that we've taken on as a belief.
And if these are truly loving people, I would have to surmise that the three of them will be able to exist in a way that's beneficial for all.
And I don't mean necessarily married again or anything like that.
As I said before, this focus 27 place, a place where no one forces their will or beliefs on another person.
In such an encounter, people who've gotten to that place in our afterlife are the kind of people who would not force their will on their previous mate.
Each person would be allowed by the other to do as they themselves seem best fit.
And, Bruce, I'm looking forward to reading your books, and I'm very, very interested in finding out more about this.
This has to tie in with the unconditional love.
I've contacted, and I do, without a doubt in my mind, believe that there is life after death, eternal life.
And I'm very interested in finding out more about that in reading your books, Bruce.
In 1979, I sailed across the Gulf, and I'm going to go as fast as I can so that you can get this story.
This was a true story that really happened.
I sailed across the Gulf from Galveston, Texas.
I ended up on an island west of Key West called the Dry Tortugas.
The maintenance man knew the gentleman I sailed over there with.
They had met before.
He asked him to take me up to Mudd Cell.
And Dr. Mudd, I don't know if you remember, he was the one who helped John Wilkes Booth saved his life, who assassinated Lincoln.
And anyways, he was sentenced to life in prison at the dry tortugas at Fort Jefferson.
So we go up to this cell where he was held prisoner, and we go in this first room, and it was very warm, and woman's perfume was as strong as it could be all over this place, like somebody had spilt a bottle of woman's perfume down on the floor.
And me and Mark looked at each other, and we just kind of it was fairly dark.
We went into the next room.
There were only two rooms in this cell.
This room was very cool.
No woman's perfume, nothing strange about it, just but a very peaceful feeling in this place to think, you know, this was a prison cell.
And we come back into the room that we had just come out of that we had entered where we smelled the perfume.
No woman's perfume at all.
None whatsoever.
And the room was the same temperature as the one we had just left.
Well, I couldn't explain it.
And I've come in contact with the dead since I was seven years old.
My grandmother was a psychic.
And I mean, I don't want to go into all that, but at any rate.
And what happened was his wife got a presidential pardon to allow him to be released from this island because he saved everybody's life from yellow fever.
And yes, some people who are stuck do get stuck in places that they are familiar with and comfortable with or have some strong connection with their physical life.
When you do your seminars, I suppose you get a disproportionate number of people who do want to talk to the dead, who do want to communicate with the dead, or they wouldn't come to your seminar.
In the general population, in the people listening to you tonight, which would number in the millions, what percentage do you think would say no, thank you?
Oh, I guess I would have to maybe pick the other side and say there are probably 10% of the people listening or maybe more who would want to, and the others are divided amongst that's too dangerous.
I was wondering, Bruce, do you ever get people, I mean, excuse me, are you able to reach people on the other side, relatives of people that are on the phone with you?
And I would like Bruce to cover some of the areas of the beings that are not in physical form, but that are not of the Earth plane, but further out than that.
In fact, in my third book, Voyages Into the Afterlife, there's quite a bit of information about contact with a group of beings that I called Second Gaz Group.
It's an odd name, but these essentially were a group of beings who claimed to live on a home world, a physical planet within our physical universe, who claimed that they were in an area that Monroe described as the gathering, an area in which the reason they were here was that they were observing these earth changes we talked briefly about.
And in communication with them a number of times and over a period of years, sort of following along with their progress, this particular group was a group that I would describe as a telepathic race.
And a number of these beings I've encountered, you know, we humans tend to think of ourselves as isolated, separated individuals.
This particular group was a group that had a completely different form of consciousness.
They were a very large population, but essentially all shared the same mind, a telepathic race, if you will.
I've encountered some others, a few others, but none with as much...
Yes, and I would say that my understanding of what telepathic meant was very, very thin and watery compared to what it's really like.
These individuals essentially, because of the evolutionary path of consciousness they chose, essentially all used and Had access to the same mind, and it required that their existence be a very cooperative existence in which none of them expressed strong individual thoughts or experiences lest they disturb that mind they all shared.
So hive mentality, as long as we keep the board out of it.
Actually, the internet is pretty much full of viruses right now.
All forms of viruses right now.
I think it's separating the idiots from the smart people, and all the idiots will open the viruses, and they will be off the internet and off their computer for an extended period of time, and the smart ones will not.
So it's sort of an evolutionary process on the internet.
But you'll get a lot of real email from this.
That's B-A, BoyAmerica, B-A, Moen, M-O-E-N, at afterlife-or hyphen, if you will, knowledge.com.
Very easy.
I really, really appreciate your being on the program this morning, Bruce, and we're going to have you back again, I'm certain.
It's fascinating what you're doing.
A little dangerous from my point of view, but fascinating.