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June 4, 2002 - Art Bell

02:26:05

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Bruce Moen - Afterlife Knowledge. Steve Quayle - Nuclear India and Pakistan

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59:36

bruce moen

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with our fellow from the Kingdom of Nine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure is.
		My guest is Stephen Quayle.
		You've got to have an attitude about this kind of thing.
		You know, if they're going to go to war, there's not a whole hell of a lot we can do about it.
		Or maybe there is.
		You know, Rid Holand the other night was saying there is.
		We could actually stop it if it got started.
		I'm not as confident about that.
		This is what Stephen Quayle has on his website is really cool.
		I don't know.
		I kind of like it.
		By the way, you'll notice on my website tonight, on the webcam photo, I've got a Premier Network Operations t-shirt on.
		They just sent that to me.
		Thank you very much, guys.
		And in celebration of that, I think...
		And so where is my network?
		They're in Sherman Oaks, California.
		So I think I'm going to blow them up.
		Let's see.
		Why?
		Well, let's go over.
		Let's see.
		One megaton surface blast.
		That sounds good.
		One megaton surface blast fallout map.
		Damage map fallout map.
		Let's go with the damage map and make it one megaton.
		And let's go down here and put in Sherman Oaks, California, U.S. And now all we have to do is hit the detonate button, which is red.
		And looks like it detonates somewhere near Oxnard Street.
		And let's see.
		There's the network.
		Oh, no, it wouldn't be there.
		Wouldn't be there.
		In fact, it blasted out to Burbank, actually.
		Well, there went the network.
		All right.
		In a moment, back to Stephen Quayle.
		Hell, Stephen, I really like your map damage setup here.
		Destroying the network was actually somewhat satisfying, hitting that red button.
		You know how you could make it even a little better?
		You would need some moving GIFs, but what you have is you have a mushroom cloud, and you show it detonating at the precise place, and then spreading out, and then you have little red rays that are the radiation.
		Just a suggestion.
		Yeah.
		The other thing good about that is you can show the fallout pattern.
		The fallout pattern would be good, too.
		You could extrapolate that.
		Absolutely.
		Because you could even extrapolate that into a biological release because, obviously, the winds, there's an assumption in this model.
		And by the way, it's not mine.
		I did not develop this.
		I just want to make it clear, but we wanted to put it on the website so people could see.
		Also, there's that Nuclear War Survival Skills.
		That's a book that's free that people can download.
		I find that people don't understand, you know, because they've put it out of their mind or just haven't had to deal with it before.
		But on the same page over to the left, Nuclear War Survival Skills, that's written by Cress and Kearney.
		It's free, and it's probably the best source of information if someone wants to know what they can do.
		Jamie, here's a question for you.
		Suppose I were to say to you that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not sufficient, obviously, not sufficient lessons for the world.
		And that if there is to be a nuclear detonation somewhere in the world, India and Pakistan, from our point of view here in the States, look like a much better contemporary example to the world of what not to do than an exchange between China and the U.S. or Russia and the U.S. or anybody in the U.S. In other words, having it happen over there, from our point of view, probably would provide a lesson the world perhaps never would forget, or is that ignoring all history?
		I don't know.
		Well, I think you're onto something there because not only would it maybe teach a lesson, but it could bring about a cry, couldn't it, for a world government and a world police force, and we've got to prevent this sort of thing from happening.
		See, I don't believe it's going to stay contained over there.
		Art, before we went into Afghanistan on our operation over there, remember the big issue was who controlled Pakistan's nuclear weapons?
		Because Osama bin Laden and Mullah Omar and some of those guys made the claim they do.
	And so I want to throw a wildcard into this whole scenario right now.
	If for any reason the terrorists have control of some of the weapons, a couple of the weapons, I can tell you this, that I don't think Bagram Air Force or Bagram Air Force Base is in Afghanistan as a safe place to be because I think that the Taliban and Al-Qaeda are pretty much kissing cousins with the Pakistani intelligence service, which is called the ISI.
	And that's never been satisfied.
	The question is who really does control?
	Ultimately, the Pakistani military controls theirs.
	Now, you asked me what the percentage of what I thought the percentage of.
	If there's a terrorist incident, another provocative incident, I'd say it's 99%.
	If not, I'd put it right now, right at this point, at 80% between Pakistan and India.
	80%?
	89%.
	99%.
	You know, Pakistan has been claiming that it has been stopping the infiltration of the area by extremists.
	Have they?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, India's bitching about that.
		And I suppose, in a sense, we are too.
		What do you really think that the U.S. position in all this is?
		I had Rich Hoagland on the other night.
		You know what he said?
		He said that we have the technology to actually blast those things In the lift phase and prevent that war essentially from occurring?
		Do you think we do?
		Yes, I do, but I think what Richard Hoagland's missing is the fact that you can have low, very low technology delivery systems.
		You know, we're talking about missiles.
		In an intercontinental ballistic missile, we have our different space-based weapons platforms that are operational.
		When you're talking about some of what the really short-range ballistic missiles are, I don't think that we have the time because, again, seven minutes.
		Now, if we wanted to facilitate and basically target each and every launcher, and my question is, could we find them all?
		We couldn't seemingly find all the scuds during Desert Storm.
		You remember when Saddam Hussein was moving them around the desert?
		I would just say this.
		I find it highly unlikely because pretty much Pakistan is going to be using F-16 aircraft.
		They're going to be using aircraft, you know, nuclear bombs in addition to their missiles.
		And I can tell you this, no one ever tells the truth.
		You can bet your bottom dollar when they're saying they have this many, they probably have more.
		So, you know, really trying to focus in on who's got what is almost maybe it's counterproductive.
		The point is that these guys, both these countries, have to understand that this isn't just throwing sticks and stones with a bigger stick and a bigger stone, that the ramifications are going to be awesome.
		Getting back to your question, could it be used as, let's just call it this, a guinea pig type exchange to bring about a change in world perspective?
		It's a real macabre way to look at all this, for sure.
		But I don't think it's unreasonable because, again, the thing is, is that in order to bring, quote, the world under the one world government an umbrella, they're going to have to say, look at what, look at the world's on the verge of destroying itself.
		Now, if you throw in the Middle East going up simultaneously, and look at all the, I don't, you know, Fox and MSNBC, they're carrying nuclear terrorist stuff every single hour on the island.
		Answer this for me, Stephen.
		If the balloon went up with India and Pakistan, what do you think China's readiness condition would turn to?
		What do you think the Russians' readiness condition would turn to?
		And here in the U.S., do you think that Putin and the president got that straightened out when they last talked?
		I mean, they had to see this conceivably coming, so it had to be like one of the topics.
		Absolutely.
		Russia is on India's side.
		Russia a week ago stated that they would provide an uninterrupted flow of arms and materials into India.
		China is backing Pakistan, and see, that's the other wildcard.
		And we're basically probably behind the scenes backing India, I would bet.
unidentified		Yes, we are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the thing that's understand, the only one force that can really challenge China in the years to come would be a nuclear India with about 1,000 warheads.
		That's a billion people to their billion, too.
		So in other words, I'm trying to look behind the scenes here, and we're beginning to do that.
		In other words, if the balloon went up, we and the Russians probably would be on India's side, sorta, and the Chinese would be on Pakistan's side, sorta.
		Correct.
		And you've got to wonder about all that a little bit.
		How far would China go in supporting Pakistan, do you think?
		Well, China's got a mutual defense pact with Pakistan.
		You remember when Musharraf was over with the Premier of China a couple weeks ago, actually about a month ago now, and they basically reconfirmed their commitment.
		I think the other question that people have to ask, will this provide some kind of a springboard to Taiwan?
		Because right now, as you and I are talking, the Chinese have their whole military operations going on, you know, their war game, so to speak.
		So it kind of, what bothers me is all these events seem to be clustering right now.
		And when events cluster, it's kind of like the old, you know, putting all the fuel rods into the reactor at the same time.
		Something's got to give.
		And that's what I'm really concerned about.
		Actually, I think it's the other way around.
		Isn't it when you pull the fuel rods out that the reaction goes wild?
		Right.
		Fuel rods actually.
		And I'm just using it in a different sense of the word.
		Actually, you know, in essence, everything is going.
		You fission.
		I'm talking fusion.
		I'm talking everything's going into critical mass.
		Yeah, it's a very hard time right now.
		There's no question about it.
		And in order to, for me anyway, for me to mentally handle this, I almost have to get light about it.
		I don't know why.
		It's just too, the magnitude of it is too horrifying to contemplate.
		And so I sort of cop an attitude about it, I guess.
		Well, I think the best way to deal with it is people really, you know, like again, you know, they can download Nuclear War Survival Skills written by a physicist, written by a guy that worked at Oak Ridge Laboratories, Cresson Kearney.
		It's all low-tech stuff, and it gives them a feel for what can happen.
		I think also the thing that people need to recognize is that this is serious.
		This is no longer, you know, hi, turn on Channel 7, hear about the nuclear war that may be happening, and then go watch the baseball game.
		I think people have to prioritize what they're saying.
		And I think our country, the United States, is really, really missing the boat here because they could be telling people, look, the world's changed.
		You remember the 60s, you know, that we should have an active civil defense program nationally, like Switzerland, Finland, all of the Scandinavian countries do, but why don't we?
		Russia is a very important part of the country.
		What about the old saying that if a major war occurred, let's say the worst happened, we and the Russians were to back India, China backs Pakistan, we get mixed it up with them a little bit.
		So a lot of people have said, well, I would rather not survive a major nuclear war, and the survivors would be the sorry ones.
		What about that attitude?
		There's a lot of that out there, you know.
		Well, sure, that attitude, though, generally the people that say that won't end up at ground zero, and I think it's kind of an escape.
		It's easier to make that statement than to prepare.
		I think if the people would think about, when I say preparing, look, the bottom line is that we've talked about this on your show before.
		People have got to know this, that under the current, not only this administration, but previous administrations, no effort or expense was made on civil defense, civilian defense.
		We even see that in the hurricanes when, you know, FEMA and the government agencies try and get in there and help.
		They're basically too late, and it takes them too long to get what's needed.
		It won't do people any good to have potassium iodide, you know, stuck in different cities around the country if there's a terrorist attack in this country and all transportation comes to a halt.
		You know, the point that I'm trying to make is this, is that, again, and I agree with you, you've almost got to be almost a little bit sarcastic, cynical, and kind of gloss it over because we're talking about some pretty dramatic things.
		And the dramatic things that can take place over there can affect us here.
		And the question is, will any of the Muslim terrorists in Pakistan in conjunction with the Moslem terrorists?
		And I'm only saying because they've made the statement.
		Al-Qaeda are terrorists.
		They are making the statement that we're going to get it.
		Did you see that article two days ago that Al-Qaeda said, get ready, we're going to get it?
		Oh, yes.
		How did you come up with the, I mean, from $12 million to $100 and something million.
		How do you make that jump?
		Well, you make that jump when you figure out that the first $12 million number was pretty much based on assuming that there was a 10% usage of weapons.
		And then the deal is U.S. Air Force using that specific computer program, that's how they came up with it.
		Those are the U.S. Air Force's numbers, not mine.
		So if you just take, like I said, you take the three cities, Delhi, Bombay, and Karachi, there's 38 million people right there.
		And we can't do the little map of blast for them.
	But the point being is that when you do, you know, just project the average yield...
	By the way, the average yield on a Pakistani warhead is considered to be about 35 kilotons, okay?
	And the deal is that India claims...
	Well, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, there's different opinions, but let's just say this.
	It's a good, solid three to five times that size, because Hiroshima was one yield, and Nagasaki, see, where the bombs are exploded, you know, you're saying surface burst.
	Surface burst is obviously on the surface of the earth.
	An airburst actually does more damage.
	The surface burst produces more fallout.
	And so, you know, I would pretty much do that.
	How do you kill more people, with a surface burst or an airburst?
	Probably in the density of population, the way it is, you know, either one's going to accomplish it because you're talking about some of these cities are so densely populated, it really won't make any difference.
	Wouldn't it be lower tech to have a surface burst, in other words, go off when you hit the ground?
	Oh, yeah.
	And also, you could put that in the back with pickup and get, you know, somebody to drive it into town.
	You know, see, that's what people forget.
	The same thing with ships.
	You know, Pakistan's got seaports, so does India.
	And what most people don't realize is India's got about, I think, 42 ships, the fourth largest navy in the world.
	Then what about the old mutual assured destruction?
	And indeed, 100 million dead or better, that's mutual assured destruction, suicidal.
	They are, no matter who launches first, they're not going to be able to win and decapitate the outside.
	The outside is going to be able to react.
	There's going to be an exchange, and it is utter, absolute suicide.
	And by the way, I've seen articles saying that after it's all over, the U.S. would have to go in and clean it all up.
	Well, India doesn't believe it's mutual assured destruction.
	And for the record, Russia never operated under that principle, although they never launched on us.
	They felt that a nuclear war, I'm saying they felt that it was survivable.
	That's the Chinese' current statement, too, in what are called their white papers.
	China makes no bones about it.
	They believe they will basically fight a nuclear war with the United States and that they will survive.
	Do you think that if there was a war between India and Pakistan that didn't escalate beyond that point and 100 million died, would that be enough for the world to say, okay, we can see we learned our lesson.
	This is something we've all got to get rid of.
	Bring on.
	And I'll tell you why, because you still have the guy with 10 sheep and the guy with five sheep and the guy with 10 sheep is still going to want the other guy's five sheep.
	In other words, you're not going to get Russia and China to lay down their arms.
	I doubt you're going to get the United States to lay down its arms.
	You know, it's kind of funny because it's like the old adage.
	Once the genie's out of the bottle, and boy, the genie's plural are out of the bottle, you know, you can't put them back in.
	And I think that the point that people...
	Yeah, and the point is that you're talking about reasonable people.
	I would assume that having read the Pakistani War Doctrine in the last 48 hours and listening to their biggest generals, both retired and active, and they basically say, hey, it's a given.
	We'll have to go this way.
	And India is saying, it's a given.
	We're going to go in, boys, and we're going to basically ask you to make the supreme sacrifice in a decisive war.
	Who do you think is likely to start the conventional aspect of the war?
	Well, the conventional aspect, you know, I mean, I don't know if you consider it war, but I mean, there's a lot of fire.
	Yeah, I know there's gunfire and artillery going right now.
	But I mean, you know, when the troops move into each other's territory, I think that will have to be India to initiate it.
	So India starts the conventional aspect of it.
	Pakistan probably starts the nuclear aspect of it.
	Correct.
	India retaliates.
	And from there, it heats up, and we get to our 72 hours.
	Now, the other thing is that the terrorists, okay, if the terrorists, meaning the guys that are India is saying to Mushar, if you've got to rein these guys in or we're going to war, they could initiate something.
	And again, the thing that I'm concerned about is to the degree that those guys are willing to go.
	And we all know the degree they're willing.
	They don't care about their lives.
	So, you know, the point is that jihad is jihad.
	And what people don't understand is the Hindus and the Muslims do not have much love for each other.
	And so, you know, that's what's scary.
	By the way, it's interesting.
	6,500 years ago in the Indians' writings in the Mahabharata, they talk about a nuclear war.
	And so it's kind of interesting, isn't it?
	If that was one of the places in prehistory, even Dr. Oppenheimer of the famous Manhattan Project, the guy that brought us the atom bomb, he believed that the Indians were the first ones to actually experience ancient atomic warfare.
	Now, people may say, well, that's really far out, but that guy was no slouch.
	And here we are right now, 6,500 years later in the same battlefield, and they're ready to turn the sea to glass.
	And you're thinking the odds are pretty heavily in favor of this is going to happen, huh?
	Well, I would say.
	I don't believe the news.
	I take the news that comes from that area and just forget it, throw it out, any kind of news about what's going on.
	people may recall that there was peace being preached by the Japanese just before they hit Pearl Harbor.
	So you can take the news and just throw it out.
	It means nothing.
	Maybe this will go away and maybe everything will be all right, or maybe there's going to be a nuclear war.
	But whatever the news is telling you tonight, it's bull.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And see, that's why I don't read the American news.
		You know, I mean, I'm on Hindustan, Pakistan, Pravda, the English language version of Pravda.
		Isn't it interesting?
		They can tell the truth more often than the Washington Times.
		Oh, don't get me started.
		Even the BBC.
		Yep.
		That's where I get all my news.
		Good news.
		But what I'm saying is I basically have divorced myself from an American perspective on the news because I don't care what we're saying.
		Our analysts, look, we know the failure of our intelligence community.
		We know the failure of their analysts.
unidentified		We know the failure of everything else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the bottom line is that, you know, I want to listen to the guy who says, hey, on such and such a date, I'm going to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And on such and such a date he does it.
unidentified		I'll pay attention to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Stephen, we're out of time.
		Hour is up.
		Listen, brother, thank you very, very much for the information.
unidentified		Thanks, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		May I just tell people, too, that they can call me at 1-800-424-7870 because a lot of people.
		Say it again.
		Say the number again.
		1-800-424-7870.
		All right, real good.
		Thank you, Stephen.
unidentified		Thanks, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
		And with regard to this last hour, all I can say is good luck to us all.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		Music.
		Be happy and I'm smiling.
		Walk me mile to drink your water.
		You know I love you, love you.
		Sand, smell of the touch, the something inside that we need so much.
		The sight of the touch, or the scent of the sand, or the strength of an oak used deep in the grand.
		The wonder of flowers to be covered and men to burst up to tarmac to the sun again.
		Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing.
		To lie in the meadow and feel the grass sing.
		All these things in our memories, all these things help us to find.
		Find, find that you don't take this place, I'll have to tell.
		You saw me.
		Wanna take a ride?
		Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach ART at area code 775-727-1222.
		Or call the Wildcard line at 775-727-1295.
		To talk with ART on the full-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, good morning, everybody.
		It is indeed coming up at a moment, Bruce Moen.
		And we're going to be looking at the afterlife and proof of the afterlife.
		Bruce Moen is a self-described, ordinary guy.
		And I'll tell you what, before I get into that, let me address a couple of things.
		Number one, it was Ed Dames, not Richard Hoagland, who said that we have the ability to stop a nuclear war in India and Pakistan should begin in the lift phase, launch phase.
		My brain cells.
		Going, going, gone.
		From Austin, Texas, Brian, just clean this up, says, hi, Art, I'm 29-year-old.
		This is on the computer.
		And have never experienced any political situation like the world is in right now.
		Is there anything you can compare it to?
		Matter of fact, Brian, yes, there is.
		I was in the Air Force, and I was at Amarillo Air Force Base, which now no longer exists in the Panhandle of Texas.
		I went there after BASIC and was working in a hospital and went through the Cuban missile crisis there.
		And I was the guy who got to answer the red phone.
		This red phone would ring.
		I mean, it never rang.
		But in this case, it rang.
		And I picked it up, and it was a DEF CON notification.
		We raised our DEF CON level.
		And believe me, for those who lived through it, the Cuban Missile Crisis Crisis was more of a political situation, in my estimation, than we have now in India and Pakistan.
		In that, had it gone wrong, of course, it would have meant an all-out nuclear war with the Soviet Union at that moment.
		And we really were headed that way.
		As close as India and Pakistan are right now, believe me, the U.S. and the Soviets were right there.
		I mean, their ships were coming and coming and coming.
		And we put up the blockade and their ships stopped.
		And everybody here was hanging by a nail on what was going to happen.
		And we thought there was better than even odds that we were about to go into an all-out nuclear war, end everything kind of war.
		So burned into my older memory than yours, Brian, is believe me, that you pick up that red phone and you hear a DEF CON notification on a SAC base and you got B-52s taken off every 11 seconds.
		So there was that.
		Brian.
		Now, Bruce Mullen.
		Bruce Mullen is a self-described, regular guy, ordinary guy, driven by intense curiosity since early childhood to know if we humans continue to exist after death.
		Boy, me too.
		He has Never had a near-death experience, doesn't claim any special psychic gift or talent, unusual for this show, that would allow him to explore our afterlife any better than you can.
		And yet, he claims his curiosity led to knowing that we all continue to exist after death indeed, and that our afterlife can be described, Moen, as a mechanical engineer.
		Now, how's that?
		Where do you get from mechanical engineer to this?
		By profession who began actively exploring our afterlife after learning the basic techniques taught in the Monroe Institute's Lifeline Program in 1992.
		Over the next three and a half years, Moen continued to use those techniques in an attempt to prove to himself that the afterlife exists, all the while feeling certain he was making up any evidence that he gathered as part of some fabricated grand self-deceptive hoax.
		Then something happened, and it convinced him that the afterlife is indeed real.
		During a contact with the deceased father of a friend, Mohen brought back information verified as accurate that he had no other way of knowing except through contact with the deceased man.
		That's the subject we'll take up.
		Since then, Moen has developed a system of simple techniques and exercises that he teaches in a two-day workshop that anyone can use to explore our afterlife and prove to themselves through their own direct experiences that it is real.
		And so we will have him tonight, though we don't have a two-day workshop, but tonight we'll make him take you through that.
		So if you want to try and explore the afterlife's reality, well then keep on listening tonight, because that's where we're going.
unidentified		The End All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gee, I guess I ought to take a picture of this, huh?
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		Well, as a general proposition, that sounds pretty good, right?
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		So I guess I should try a little myself, shouldn't I?
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		You know, you've got to stay on it.
		And it's about $33 a month if you want to try it.
		We'll include a $20 value book explaining what's going on with you as you take it.
		So, are you adventuresome?
		Would you like to try it?
		If so, call Great American Products at 1-800-557-4627.
		You can call any time, including right now.
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		Ask about Ultimate HGH.
		Comes now Bruce Moen.
		Bruce, welcome to the program.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Good evening, Art.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Nice to be here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's good to have you.
		This is a subject that for me, and I think for almost everybody everywhere of every persuasion, is really important, and that is whether we continue our existence after physical death or not, because physical death comes really quickly.
		I mean, we're only here for a very short period of time indeed.
		Right?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		I would completely agree with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So how did you get interested?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess I would say my interest began as a child.
		As a five or six-year-old, I used to wander around wondering at questions that I listed called my three great questions.
		And they are, where was I before I was here?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a good one.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And what am I supposed to do while I'm here?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's good too.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And where do I go when I leave here?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a great one.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's definitely the third of my childhood three great questions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they are good.
		Where were you before you were here?
		That one is answered by many guests that I've had on who claim that we are incarnated again and again and again.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Well, and in fact, about the same time in my childhood, I had a recurring daydream that later, probably in my mid-20s, I began to wonder about.
		The elements of this recurring daydream were the sort of thing that a five- or six-year-old boy would have no knowledge of.
		And in my mid-20s, I began to wonder just how it was possible that that happened and read a stack of books and discovered that other people talked about this thing called reincarnation.
		And I'd have to say that for me, reincarnation became part of my truth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it still part of your truth?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I would say that with the explorations I've done since then, that it's gotten a little trickier to talk about, but I would continue to agree that we come to this physical world more than once.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you saying then that some of your research that we're going to discuss tonight would perhaps argue in some way with the concept of reincarnation?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Well, if it argued, it would argue for it as opposed to against it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		All right.
		It seems as logical as any other.
		With regard to what we're supposed to do while we're here, beats the hell out of me.
		I think that we're probably supposed to do the best we can and cope.
		You know, life doesn't give you much else.
		What do you think?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess I would say that after I answered my first great question, knowing or believing that reincarnation was true, I began to focus on that second one.
		What am I supposed to do while I'm here?
		And I would submit that there's no 20-something-year-old person that has a prayer of answering that.
		But since that time, primarily as a result of exploring this afterlife and beyond there, I would say that there are primarily two purposes.
		And the first one I would say is that, well, I'll cut it down to one.
		That we as human beings exist for the purpose of learning to experience and express unconditional love to an ever greater degree.
		That, in my opinion, that's the purpose of humankind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Unconditional love?
		That's a really strong statement.
		That means, for example, the people that blew up our buildings in New York and hit the Pentagon and all the rest of it, we should unconditionally love them.
		Is that right?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess what I would say is that you can learn how to love unconditionally both by experiencing unconditional love and by experiencing the lack of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You didn't answer my question.
		So answer it.
		Should we love those people?
		Yes.
		Bull.
		We should kill those people, Steve.
		Bruce, we should kill those people.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Well, that may be the most unconditionally loving thing we can do.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Can you believe that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Yeah, I can believe that.
		I'd love to see them killed.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'd certainly like to understand more about why they did it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't care.
		They did it because they want us dead.
		And so I want them dead.
		And so I'm not certain.
		I'm sure.
		You know what?
		I really think that what you're talking about is something to strive for.
		You know, this unconditional love thing.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		It ain't easy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it ain't easy.
		I can't think of any better way to put it.
		And I certainly couldn't practice it with regard to what those people did.
		And I just gave you a very extreme example, I know, and I put you in a corner there.
		But that is, I mean, ultimately, when you say unconditional, you provoke that kind of a question, right?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you do.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So can you, are you there?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can honestly say that you unconditionally love all people, including the people that blew up the buildings and killed people.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		No, I wouldn't say that.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you would say that I have not learned to unconditionally love everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I thought you had.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		No, in fact, my first reaction was a little extreme.
		My first reaction was, if we're going to make the world safe for us, we need to kill everybody else.
		I mean, that was certainly my first reaction to the towers going down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, everybody else might be pushing it a little.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, we're really here to discuss the afterlife, and you apparently have become convinced, or stop me if I'm wrong, through what you've done that there is an afterlife.
		Is that accurate or not?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		That's accurate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is accurate.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		I have absolutely no doubt at this point in my life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No doubt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you a big-time religious person?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		No.
		No, I'm not.
		At least not in any organized religion way.
		I was raised in a church, although I didn't see the inside one until I was about 13.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		A Lutheran church.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, me too.
unidentified		Yeah?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		I was raised as a Lutheran, but, you know, somewhere in my teens, I had questions, and the answers they had were just a little strange.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, I ran into the same problem, so now I'm an exiled Lutheran.
unidentified		But you're not religious, particularly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're certainly not a fundamentalist religious person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You just really want to know about the afterlife.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that was certainly my purpose in exploring it.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		As one of those critical-minded engineer types, it would be pretty hard to swallow most of what most religions teach.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, I'm into a lot of that, too.
		I mean, I've been in electronics All my life, since I was a child, and there are specific answers to specific questions and specific things that you can do, and everything follows good, solid scientific logic.
		And so, how does an engineer who practices the same sort of thing approach trying to prove the afterlife?
		How do you do that?
		How do you make that from an engineering point of view?
		I mean, you're into I do A and B occurs, right?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, so how do you go at it?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess I would say, first of all, that being an engineer in regarding to exploring our afterlife, as an engineer, I had to approach it from a critical thinking style, the style of an engineer that says, I have to have hard physical evidence or there's no way I can believe this.
		And so my basic approach was to try to find a way to get evidence of the existence of this afterlife that could somehow be verified physically.
		And my approach to that was to learn how to find and communicate with deceased people through the Lifeline program at the Monroe Institute.
		And we can talk more details about that after a bit.
		But to learn to find a way to communicate with people who were deceased, try to gather information from them I would have no other way of knowing except by communication with them, and then find a person in the physical world who knew the deceased who could either verify or refute the information that I gathered.
		So that was my basic approach.
		Communicate with a dead person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Communicate with the dead.
		That's good.
		Through what means, Bruce?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Well, in the beginning, it was, well, I can't say the beginning, but in my early approach to it, it was using techniques that were taught, as you mentioned in the introduction, at a place called the Monroe Institute and in a program called Lifeline.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know about the Monroe Institute.
		I interviewed Mr. Monroe before he passed.
		Fascinating, fascinating man.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Isn't he?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		I was going to say wasn't he, but I shouldn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're that sure?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's very difficult for me to not be sure.
		The evidence has been, for me, repetitive and overwhelming.
		So the basic approach was that in the lifeline program that Monroe founded and the program that he developed, it was based on the premise that when people die, sometimes they get stuck.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stuck.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And that a physically living person could learn how to contact a person who had become stuck after death and provide the assistance that person might need to move out of being stuck to a better place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's define stuck.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it possible, first of all, is it possible to communicate with people truly on the other side, people who are not stuck, people who are on the other side already?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		In my experience, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, the answer is yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it's easier to communicate with somebody who is, your word, stuck?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		I wouldn't say it's easier.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		I would just say that it's that this process called retrieval that deals with people who are stuck was sort of the training wheels on the bicycle I used to ride around this afterlife and explore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
		In other words, why?
		When you say stuck, it conjures up in my mind visions of what we call a ghost, a spirit who's still earthbound for some reason or another, is attached to some material thing or was killed this quickly, they didn't know that they're dead or something like that.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Precisely.
		In fact, I would say that those are a couple of classic reasons why people get stuck.
		Let me talk a little bit about what it means to be stuck just for a moment.
		Sure.
		Sometimes, through the circumstances of death, for example, someone who's killed very quickly and unexpectedly, they may, since things don't seem to change much for them, they may be a little confused as to what happened.
		For example, in a workshop in New Hampshire, one of the people who was attending, a participant, in her communication with a deceased person, encountered a woman who had been waiting for a bus while she was still physically alive, and standing with her back to traffic talking to someone, absentmindedly stepped back, not realizing how close she was to the curb.
		And when she fell off the curb, she was hit by a car and killed instantly.
		She jumped back up onto the sidewalk, not realizing she had been killed, and attempted to continue to talk to the person who she'd been talking to before, who could now no longer see her or hear her.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And the woman who was killed so quickly, many years later, was still in a reality in which she was alone and isolated and still waiting for a bus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is like right out of Mommy, I see dead people, huh?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Right?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Well, as a matter of fact, that movie, I would say, had some very accurate things to say about stuck people, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Stay right there, y'all.
		Stuck people.
unidentified		Meantime.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It really did.
		Didn't it?
		All right.
		My guest is Bruce Mullen, and we are obviously discussing whether or not there is any real afterlife.
		He obviously believes there certainly is.
unidentified		Goblebal, Tom.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It'd be interesting to find out how he knows that this occurred to that woman, that she'll back up and after being hit by the bus and continued the conversation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		is Come on
		in, I'll...
		Open up your game And maybe tell you about the Laidra And how she gave me life And how she made it end Something that more than when
		I was crazy Flowers growing on a hill Driving flies and apple dears Learn from us very much Look at
		us, but do not touch Pedro is my name I'm not a man.
		To reach art bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222 or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		Bruce Mowen is my guest.
		We're discussing the afterlife, and he's proven to himself that it's real.
		And before the program is over, perhaps he can prove it to all of us.
		Robert in Kaiser, Oregon, along with a lot of other people, saying that the signal on KEX in Portland is popping in and out.
		And I'm getting a lot of reports like that.
		So if it'll help the people in Portland, that's the only place we're getting those reports from right now.
		So they're probably having a localized problem in the Portland area at KEX.
		That'll help them knowing that it's not widespread.
		They can begin looking locally.
		To me, it's always amazing the signal gets anywhere at all.
		If you start here in Little Prump, Nevada, and you go up to a geosynchronous satellite 22,500 miles up, then you go back down again 22,500 miles to Oregon.
		Then you go back up 22,500 miles to another satellite.
		And then you go back down 22,500 miles to a ground station in New Jersey.
		Then you go back up 22,500 miles to a C-band satellite.
		Then you go down 22,500 miles to the various radio stations that then have a lot of electronic equipment that reproduce my signal.
		So, you know, it's amazing enough that it gets from here to there to you at all ever, much less most of the time.
		So stuff happens.
		Bruce Mowen, we'll be right back.
		Once again, Bruce Mowen, Bruce, you described a woman hit by a bus who got up, I mean, killed instantly, got up and resumed a conversation she was having on the sidewalk.
		That's an example of a person who is stuck.
		Now, first of all, I guess, number one, I would ask you, how could you know that's true?
		Or why do you believe that is a true story?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		To really know whether or not it's true, the person who made contact with that deceased woman would have had to have gathered some information from her that could be verified by someone who knew the deceased woman.
		And in that particular case, this was the experience of someone in my workshop.
		In that particular case, it did not happen.
		I have some examples from my own experience in which those kinds of things did happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, give me some of those.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Probably within about two years into my trying to prove this to myself, a person asked me to check on her grandmother.
		Her grandmother had died about nine months before our conversation.
		Asked me to check on her grandmother.
		And using these techniques that I learned in the Monroe Institute's Lifeline Program, I made contact with a woman.
		And it was my impression that this grandmother was sitting in a wooden chair in a kitchen, that she hadn't had two thoughts that you could have said were serial in a very long time, very confused.
		My impression was that this woman had Alzheimer's.
		It was that sort of confusion in her face.
		And during the interaction with this woman, she was approached by two other non-physical people, one of whom she looked at and said, Maggie, Maggie, what are you doing here?
		Well, it turned out the deceased woman's mother's name was Margaret and that everyone, including the deceased woman, called her Maggie.
		There was one little bit of evidence and one that at the time I explained away as just an interesting coincidence.
		I didn't feel that really proved it to myself.
		But over a period of time, there was eventually an experience that did prove it to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's have it.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		A friend of mine's father was walking across the parking lot at a grocery store in the mountains here in Colorado and was hit by a pickup truck on a Friday afternoon, runover, and died after midnight Sunday, early Monday morning.
		My friend called and said, would you please check on my dad, you know, see what's going on with him.
		And when I used the techniques and made contact with him, got some information that was verified.
		For example, to my perception, there was another woman there with him in his early afterlife experience who was in her maybe 30s, but his mother.
		And this made no sense to me as the man was about 87.
		It turned out that the man's mother had died when he was 11.
		She came into the scene appearing as she would have at the age she died.
		But the real clincher for me was that in my communication with him, he was just adamant that I say the word punky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Punky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Punky.
unidentified		Okay.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		What I actually heard was punkin', but it was close enough.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Say the word punky to his daughter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And I assume that when he said it to me, my immediate reaction was, oh, he's giving me a pet name for her.
		This is what he called her when she was a little girl.
		Yes.
		And when I relayed the information to his daughter, she said, well, no, it's a pet name, but it's not what he called me.
		She said, from the time I arrived at the hospital after his accident until he died, every time he was conscious, he made me promise I would take care of his little dog, Punky, if he died.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you had no way of knowing about this little dog?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		I never knew the man when he was alive.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		I had no idea he had a dog.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's pretty convincing.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Well, that was the one that finally, as they say, the straw that broke the camel's back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I want to understand, and I think the audience would love to understand too, the techniques you're using.
		Boil it down, make it simple, see if anybody else can do it.
		The techniques that you learned to communicate with the dead.
		Let's begin there.
		How do you do that?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Well, the way I do that now, I've kind of developed my own system for that, but I would say that one of the most important aspects to understand is that the way we perceive these deceased people and the way we perceive our communication with them is to use our imagination as the means of perceiving.
		There's a story that claims that someone once told St. Joan of Arc, Joan, these voices you hear are just in your imagination.
		To which she supposedly replied, well, of course, that's where you hear them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a good point.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		At least that was her reply.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		So give it to me straight.
		I mean, what state do you go in?
		How do you get yourself in a place where you're able to begin this communication?
		Whether it's your imagination or a voice in your head or whatever it is that allows you to communicate with that.
		What state do you get in to achieve that?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Actually, it's so simple art, the hardest thing to do is believe you're doing it.
		Well, to begin, to begin, it's just a state of relaxation.
		I use a breathing technique just to help a person relax.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And from that point, if you were a first-timer, I would suggest that you do something like this.
		Say, for example, you wanted to communicate with a grandfather you never met.
		He died before you were born.
		I would suggest that you first close your eyes and relax.
		And then I would suggest that you begin to imagine a scene that you and your grandfather are going to be in.
		That essentially you pretend.
		Maybe you pretend that you're sitting on the back porch.
		It's a hot, muggy day.
		The grass needs to be cut.
		You're going to have this imaginary conversation with your grandfather.
		And it's such a hot day, you're going to give him a cold beer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it's set and setting.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yes, set and setting.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And that you use your imagine essentially to create that scene within your mind's eye, if you will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, I understand.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And then imagine or pretend that your grandfather sits down next to you and begin what in the beginning is a completely and entirely fabricated fantasy conversation with this grandfather.
		Or you might say, you know, hi, Grandpa, my name is Art.
		You died before I was born.
		You make this conversation up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And you continue with this process until something unexpected happens.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		For example, in this imaginary conversation, suppose the grandfather.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean something that you are not intentionally in this relaxed state imagining, all of a sudden something that you weren't imagining occurs.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yes, for example, maybe grandfather says, hey, you know, when I was a younger man, I was a bank robber.
		That would do it.
		And you might stop and think, now, I know I'm pretending this conversation, but I don't remember making that part up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I didn't say that part to myself.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And when something unexpected like that happens, I would say, play along with it.
		Act as if grandfather said this.
		You might say, well, really, Gramps, what's the last bank you robbed?
		And play along in this conversation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		At this juncture, that's really interesting stuff, Bruce.
		That really is interesting.
		I'll give you that.
		Now, a lot of people are going to say, brother, you don't know what you're letting yourself in for.
		When you put yourself in that state and you invite the dead to have a conversation with you, you are opening a door through which something might come that you will not be happy with.
		Many people will say that.
		And how do you answer that?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		I would say that in the 10 years I've been doing this, I've certainly encountered dead people, or perhaps a better way of saying this, non-physical people, that if I met them on the street here, I'd cross the street to avoid them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's close.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you don't always get what you ask for.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Or you may ask to contact somebody and not realize this person is very strange.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		But let me also say that one of the techniques I teach deals exactly with this particular situation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And it has to do with the power of the energy of love.
		I would suggest, and as I teach it in my workshop, I would suggest that whenever someone encounters anything that causes them to feel fear, that that fear is either my own Fear, my own beliefs.
		For example, maybe I believe in Banshees.
		Maybe I'm Irish descent, and I believe that there are banshees, and I believe that when I die, one's going to come and get me.
		It's possible that if I, as a physical person, explore non-physically, I may encounter a banshee.
		And that banshee may actually be fabricated out of my own fear.
		Thoughts can be things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Monster from the id.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And my suggestion is that in my experience and exploration, I found that there's something called the law of love and fear that says love and fear cannot coexist.
		If I encounter something that causes me to feel fear, if I do something to cause myself to feel love, I don't mean just think about it, I mean feel it, and project that love energy to whatever it is that's causing me to feel fear, one of two things will happen.
		If it's my own fear taking form, it'll just disappear, and I've seen this happen over and over.
		The other possibility is that my own fear is sort of making a mask over something that's really there, in which case the mask disappears and I see what's really there.
		The other possibility is I'm dealing with someone who's just not a very nice person, who's doing everything they can to cause me to feel fear.
		Love and fear cannot be in the same place in the same time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then you affirm that once that door is open, you might get something you're not ready for?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and I would say that one's beliefs can really play into this.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Part of my own afterlife exploration and what I've done with that is to work with people who might be described as schizophrenic, people who hear voices, people, and in some cases more than just hear voices, are dealing with exactly the sort of thing you're talking about, that they are essentially in contact with what they perceive to be a demon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, why shouldn't I imagine that the people voluntarily or perhaps involuntarily got into the state you're talking about right now and something got invited in and now they're going to spend the rest of their life in a mental hospital?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Well, if they deal with the standard psychiatric methods of treating it, that unfortunately may happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		So proceed with caution.
		Is that a fair statement?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Suppose I were to tell you, I think that I believe you that this can be done, but that I don't particularly want to talk to the dead.
		I have enough trouble with the living, frankly, and I'm not so sure that I actually want to talk to the dead, although I'm driven to try and understand if it's real or not, like everybody is.
		So that might drive me to it, but I'm not compelled to talk to the dead.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and if those were your feelings, I certainly wouldn't push the issue.
		Because it may be that, see, thoughts are things within these non-physical realities like our afterlife.
		And someone who holds beliefs that there are demons out there waiting for me may encounter them, and that can cause some serious difficulty, even if they're only imagined demons, and so I certainly wouldn't push it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nevertheless, you have done these explorations.
		I might not, but you have, and so you would have, presumably, some answers for us.
		For example, not everybody gets stuck.
		One would imagine the majority of the people don't get stuck.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		I agree.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You go, good, okay.
		So you might know from your work where a person goes when they die.
		If they don't get stuck, where do they go?
		I mean, is there heaven as we understand it and hell as we understand it from the preachers, the fiery pit of sewage or whatever it is?
		Is there a place like that?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would say that I've explored a number of heavens and a number of hells.
		I guess, first let me say, yeah, I completely agree, Art.
		Not everyone gets stuck, and I certainly don't want to have listeners think that that, but I'm saying they do.
		I think in the normal, natural process of dying, if things are allowed to go as they should, a person doesn't get stuck.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, right, I understand that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So my question is, where do they go?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		I would classify three specific areas in our afterlife that people go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And I'll use the labels that Robert Monroe used from his out-of-body explorations, not the way I do it, but his labels.
		He labeled one area something called Focus 23.
		He was very generic in his labels.
		This afterlife area is an area where people are stuck.
		These are people who have physically died, and through their expectations, their individual beliefs, the circumstances of their death, they've gotten stuck in an isolated, self-created reality.
		You could say trapped in their own dream.
		The second major area I would describe in our afterlife is one that Monroe called the belief system territories.
		These are realities created by group beliefs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The belief system territories, like Catholic beliefs, for example.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Sure, or for example, I mean, you and I were both Lutherans, at least at one point, and the Lutheran Church.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm a fallen Lutheran.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm a past one, I guess.
		You know, my only disappointment with the Lutheran Church, this guy named Martin Luther couldn't quite swallow all the things he was told to believe, And so he decided to try to go out and find the truth for himself.
		And my only disappointment in the church I was raised in is that it tells its followers to believe what Luther found instead of do what he did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then you're not a lot different than Luther yourself, Bruce.
		Now, listen, hold on.
		We're at the top of the hour.
		Unconditional love, huh?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Happy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll be right back.
		Probably.
		Yeah.
unidentified		What is it for?
		Absolutely nothing.
		Say it again, y'all.
		Look out.
		What is it for?
		Absolutely nothing.
		Listen to me.
		Oh, whoa.
		I'm expired.
		Because it means destruction of this life.
		Oh, whoa.
		Won't be a dead man.
		When there's some going to fight And lose their lives I said war Good God Knows him well, he has been cheated.
		Have you lived?
		How's my friend who is my life so?
		This is the madhouse, feels like me home.
		Why we just can't look, I know where to start.
		Where am I to go now that I've gone before?
		How's my friend who is my life so?
		This is the madhouse, feels like me alone.
		How we just can't look, I know where to start.
		Where am I to go now that I've gone before?
		You were young, you were young, you were young, you were young.
		Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bill from the Kingdom of Die.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That always brings me back to reality when a bullet hits both.
		Good morning, everybody.
		My guest is Bruce Moet, and we're talking about whether or not there's an afterlife, where you go when you die.
		And he's just told you how you can actually talk to the dead if you so desire.
		Basically, it seems to boil down to putting yourself into a state of relaxation.
		There are various methods of doing that, breathing exercises.
		You can use those.
		Somebody taught me, because I've always had trouble sleeping, how to put myself in a relaxed state by, as you're lying in bed all tense and unable to sleep, you start with your finger and you relax your finger intentionally.
		You just make it relax.
		And then your hand.
		And then your arm, and then your chest, and then your other hand, your arm, your chest, your legs.
		You force them to relax.
		And before you know it, you did it and you're asleep somewhere in the process.
		Before you've relaxed your entire body, you're going to fall asleep.
		So that's a relaxation technique as well.
		And so you get into this relaxation technique, however you put yourself there.
		That's what it boils down to.
		And then you begin to use your imagination and set up a scenario where, for example, you are sitting down next to your dead grandfather in a setting of your choice, you know, on a riverbed, whatever, on a bridge, who cares, wherever.
		And then you begin a fantasy conversation with this person.
		And you wait for the unexpected, unintended consequences.
		He says something to you that didn't come from your imagination, and that begins the process, and you're now talking with the dead.
		So I want to obviously know a little of the nature of where we go when we die, and that's kind of where we're going here in a moment.
		Any of you out there want to give this a try, you're welcome to try it at home, but beware of the possible consequences, because, of course, as Bruce said, you never quite exactly know who's coming through the door once you get it open.
unidentified		Oh!
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, Bruce Moen, we were talking about where you go when you die, and if you don't get stuck, something we're going to come back to.
		You were describing the various places where you might go.
		One of them would be the place of your expectation.
		Or maybe that's all it would be, the place of your expectation.
		Bruce?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So is that essentially what it boils down to?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Well, we were talking about this place called the Belief System Territory.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be your expectation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you're a Catholic, you would think that you're going to go and your faith is going to be fulfilled, right?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and I would say that any belief held by a group, such as a religion, that describes an afterlife environment like a heaven actually creates a reality that is that heaven.
		And that people who hold the set of beliefs that that reality was created around at death may be attracted into it.
		So good Lutherans may be attracted into Lutheran heaven.
		And that those places are populated exclusively by those who share that set of beliefs.
		So there are no Catholics in Lutheran heaven.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about bad Lutherans?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Where do they go?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Well, Lutherans, as other religions, preach about a place they call hell.
unidentified		Hell.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And I would say, it's my opinion from my exploration so far, that such a reality is created by that group's belief.
		And a bad Lutheran who believes that's where they're going to go may be attracted in there.
		I want to emphasize that, you know, not all of them go there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're basically, it boils down to you go where you think you're going to go, what you believe.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yes, in many cases, certainly not all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Certainly not all?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Certainly not all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, the people who knocked our buildings down with airplanes think they're going to a place with 72 virgins or something or another.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think probably they do?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's possible.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		It's also possible that the real belief system that they are involved with, one in which such horrific acts of terrorism are part of their belief system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But see, to them, it's terrific acts of heroism.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To them.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and they may end up in a place where they're living exclusively with others who hold exactly the same beliefs and perpetrate such acts on everyone else in that belief system territory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then there were their buds, which means there'd be hundreds of virgins around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At least for a short time.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Or there may be no virgins.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		There may be only terrorists like themselves who are bent on these heroic acts of horrific terrorism and perpetrating them on the other members of that belief system territory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That'd be more like hell.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		It'd be more like a place called Thief's Hell that I explored using a technique called partnered exploring.
		We'll talk more about the technique later.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thief's hell?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Thief's hell, a place that is populated entirely by thieves.
		The description is in my fourth book, Voyage to Curiosity's Father.
		But in the exploration that a friend of mine and I did of this place, it turned out that being a thief is really a system of beliefs.
		And we're not talking about someone who just steals occasionally.
		We're talking about a real hardcore thief.
		And in an exploration a friend of mine did of thief's hell, what we found was that people who hold that belief system, that belief system of a thief, may be attracted into a place that is populated entirely by thieves who spend their time stealing from everyone else in that hell and being stolen from everyone else in that hell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As you have spoken to people in heaven or in the place they have created for themselves that they think is heaven, have you also spoken to people in the place they have created for themselves, their hell?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have?
		Yes.
		And give me an example of what kind of a conversation you had.
		I'd be very, very curious.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Well, as a matter of fact, we can use the example of Pete's hell.
		The dead guy that I interviewed was someone who had been there and had escaped or had gotten out.
		He was offered what's called a back door out of hell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		He described that after his death, when he first arrived, he arrived in a place that to him looked just as real as our physical world does to us, in an area of that belief system territory that was probably very much like an inner city just thick with thieves.
		And that he spent his time doing his best not to be stolen from and stealing from everyone he could.
		Over a period of time, formed a relationship with a woman who was also there, and the two of them sort of worked various cons together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
		Really?
		So in other words.
		This is really interesting.
		There is no traditional heaven and no traditional hell.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Well, those certainly exist there also.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		There are many, many of these belief system territories.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Any belief system held by a group can create a reality in this area of our afterlife we're talking about, this second area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And could your sentence to hell, let's say thieves hell, be eternal?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Could it be eternal?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, in the face of the conversation we had about reincarnation, it's an obvious question.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		In my experience, there is one situation in which that is possible, but I would say that it is extremely rare.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rare.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		That it's more typical, at least from the information I got from this fellow I interviewed, it's more typical that his life in Thieves' Hell, he eventually began to see the futility of it all.
		That no matter how much he stole, it was always stolen from him.
		And he began to, I would say, lose some of that belief system.
		And at that point, the story he told was that he and the woman had eventually moved sort of to the countryside in this hell, not the inner city.
		And there was a knock at the door one night.
		And when he opened the door, here stands a man that he immediately realizes is a master thief who's running a game on him called Innocent Sucker.
		The man at the door is obviously a master thief who's trying to lull him into a false sense of security by acting as a bundling thief.
		And he said, I realized immediately this was the Innocent Sucker con, so I began to run the counter-innocent sucker con in which you intend to pretend to be taken in.
		He said, the way this con works is the fellow who's running Innocent Sucker is pretending to be a pretty low-level bumbling thief only to scope out your stuff to determine what your most precious thing is, and he fully intends to come back some night and steal it.
		He said, counter-innocent sucker, he said, if it's run perfectly, you pretend to be taken in, and you find out where he lives and scope out his stuff.
		And when you know that tonight's the night he's coming to your place to steal your most precious thing, you go to his place and you steal his, and you hope it's something big and heavy like a candlestick because you're then sitting in your own home waiting for this fellow to come in.
		And when he comes in, you flip on the lights and reveal that you know he's playing innocent sucker.
		Then you beat him senseless with a candlestick, drag him out in the street, and leave him there so other thieves know to leave you alone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, but how do you kill someone who's already dead?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Well, suffice it to say it happens.
		Of course, they pop right back up again.
		But a little more with this story, because I just want to go right ahead.
		So he decided to run Counter-Innocent Sucker, and when the day came that he knew he was going to have to go through with it, he again realized the futility of where he was living and what he was doing and decided he wasn't going to go through with it.
		He sat in his home waiting for the person to come in, and when the person broke into the house, he snapped on the lights and revealed that he knew that he was playing innocent sucker, and he said, look, there's my most precious thing.
		Just take it and get out.
		And he said the next thing that happened was like somebody sort of spit him out of somewhere and he found himself floating in complete blackness.
unidentified		Oh.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And then began, he could see a little light beginning to approach.
		And as the light got closer, he realized that light was the one who ran the con on him.
		And that person approached him and said, hey, look, here's the situation.
		You were stuck in thieves' hell, and I am a helper.
		And I, by monitoring your activities, determined that you had begun to lose some of your beliefs about being a thief.
		And when you made the choice not to go through with it, since your beliefs no longer matched with thieves' hell, you were spit out of the place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So where is he now?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad you asked, Art.
		Because the fellow who encountered him said, you have some choices to make.
		He said, you can choose to go back into your hell if you like.
		He said, you can choose to incarnate again in physical reality if you like.
		Or you can choose to come and work at this place that I work called, the Rehabilitation Center in Focus 27, the third major area of our afterlife, which is the choice he made.
		And it turned out that this Focus 27 place has something called a rehabilitation center.
		This is a place where people who have either, through their own efforts, escaped their hell or have been offered a back door out of hell, as I've just described by Helper, a place where these people go and learn how to become helpers, learn how to become someone who can go back into a hell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you became who met him.
		You became...
		Yes.
		And now it's interesting because, you see, most people who believe in hell think that when you go there, whatever it is, it's eternal.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And most people believe that someone else sentences you there as a punishment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're right.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And my explorations so far indicate that it's more our own beliefs and lifestyle that draw us into a place that resonates with our beliefs and lifestyle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then let's do a flip on this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you can get a back door out of hell and you can get bumped up the ladder a little bit, then it seems to me let's look at the opposite and what we call heaven.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or the heavens that people create.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could it be that you get up there and you somehow screw up and drop through a back door that sends you straight down?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Straight down.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, metaphors, okay?
unidentified		Yeah.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		As a matter of fact, in another of the partnered exploration sessions that a friend of mine and I did, we asked that very question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And I encountered and communicated with a man who claimed that he had been in what he called a hollow heaven, not the real one.
		He explained that he had been a minister in a very small fundamentalist Christian sect.
		He said fewer than 10,000 people physically living now in it.
		And that all of his life he had preached about this heaven that we go to.
		And that when he arrived, it was just as he expected.
		He got to meet the old venerated preachers of the line.
		And one of the beliefs that he had preached about was that when you went to heaven, you had to continue to obey all the rules that you had been taught while you were physically alive, including you had to go to church on Sabbath.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And since he'd been a minister, he was given a church.
		And he explained that things were fine, except he had one couple in the church that was a problem.
		It was a couple who were in his congregation who were living in the same home but were not married.
		And of course, this was against the rules.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Especially in heaven.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Oh, especially in heaven.
		Especially in this heaven.
		Because the rules said that if you weren't married, you had to live in separate homes.
		And if you lived in the same home, you had to get married.
		He said, I went to these people, this couple's house, many times to counsel them, to try to get them to change their ways, because I knew if I didn't, I was going to have to perform the casting out ritual.
		If they continued to break the rules and wouldn't abide by the rules, I was going to have to, as I had taught as a minister, cast them into outer darkness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can be thrown out of heaven then.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		That heaven you can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right.
		Hold it right there.
		We've got a break here at the bottom of the arrow.
		This is an interesting place to sort of hang people up.
		And on the other side, I suppose there is no time.
		Not as we know it anyway.
		Hundreds or thousands of years in a second here on Earth.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast.
unidentified		Time, time, time to see what's become of me.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast.
		Once upon a time, once when you were mine, I remember your skies reflected in your eyes.
		I wonder where you are.
		I wonder if you think about me.
		Once upon a time, in your wildest dreams.
		I know I know Rechard Bell in the Kingdom of Nye.
		From west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with our Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Perhaps some night we'll do a whole show on your wildest dreams.
		It's a very interesting topic, and it's actually kind of a parallel topic in a way to what we're doing right now.
		My guest is Bruce Mowen, and we're talking about the afterlife.
		He's told you how you can talk with the dead if you want to, and I'd be very interested in how some of you do if you try his description of how to do it.
		Sounds like it might be eminently possible, so if you have the gonies for it, you might give it a shot.
		My guest is Bruce Moen.
		We'll continue to talk about the afterlife and the nature of it in a moment.
		All right, once again, Bruce Moen.
		Bruce, it seems like your explanation of where we go and what happens to us when we die boils down to our expectations.
		And in a lot of ways, that seems without justice.
		In other words, there are very bad people who do very bad things, like people who knock down the towers in the Pentagon and all the rest of it.
		If their expectations are they're heroes, and they will go to the land of virgins and all the rest of it, then what you believe through your research about all of this suggests that might absolutely be true.
		And that makes it seem like there's like it's unjust.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		I would agree that that specific incident you're talking about, I don't want those guys living in a place like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was just the worst.
		But I mean, there might be somebody else who believes that if you kill somebody and cannibalize them and eat them, you take on the power of their soul.
		And so that is their belief system.
		Therefore, that's what they get.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And in that specific case, what they may get is to, upon death, enter an area populated entirely by people who share that belief, who are running around killing and cannibalizing people.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		You may end up living in a, you might call it a cannibal's hell, a place where it's truly an eye for an eye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Teeth are hard to eat.
		Well, I don't intellectually find what you're saying to be.
		Well, maybe it is.
		Maybe there is that sort of justice then.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		That's how I view it.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		I mean, what better place for a thief than a place populated entirely by thieves?
unidentified		All right, all right, then...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, then let's think about this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where does an atheist go?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		You know, in some ways, atheists may be in a good position.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		If it's someone who essentially says, I really don't know when that happens, and I'm choosing not to believe in that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's an agnostic.
		Okay.
		An atheist says there is no God.
		There's no heaven.
		There's no hell.
		It's all bull.
		You die, and the worms crawl in and the worms crawl out.
		That's an atheist.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		I would expect to find such a person in Focus 23 much the same as a person who believes, for example, that when I die, I go to sleep forever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's going to be one hell of a surprise for him then.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And in some cases, I would say that...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What heck of a surprise.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		It may be that the atheist who believes there's nothing may find him in a place entirely alone with nothing.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And I would also say that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that would be a surprise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, in other words, consciousness would continue and be aware of this utter loneliness, this utter desperation, this utter blackness, this utter nothingness.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's entirely possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I hope there's a few people out there tonight listening to that.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And let me say that this retrieval process we talked about earlier is a process in which someone who learns the art of retrieval may encounter an atheist stuck in Focus 23 and may be able to assist that atheist in accepting that perhaps there are other possibilities,
		perhaps there are other places to be in the afterlife, and that this person who's learned the art of retrieval may be able to help that atheist move from this desperate place they found themselves in to a much better place.
		That's what retrieval is for.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think there are angels and demons, that is to say, entities that either were from God or are from God, that are separate from human souls, living or dead?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		There probably are.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		I have not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You haven't run into them?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've run into beings that I would say have never lived human lives.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, that's pretty interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what have you learned from them?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Oh, what have I learned from them?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because when you encounter something that's never been human, what kind of communication takes place?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		I'm very curious.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Well, it depends on whether we're talking about beings from other systems that are like our physical world, the ones you might call aliens, or whether we're talking about beings who exist, I guess I would say, within such a large perspective that human existence, it would just be a very, very small portion of their existence that they would know about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of people are sending me computer messages suggesting that you're being fooled.
		This would be a Christian perspective, that you're being fooled, that these are demons that are painting a picture for you that ain't so, but you're buying it.
		What do you say to them?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		I would say that I'm hearing the expression of a very strong belief, and that it's a difficult one to argue against because if I encounter a deceased person who gives me information that I had no other way of knowing, that I then verify was some physically living person, I would say that Occam's razor.
		The simplest explanation is that's what happened.
		Someone like you're talking about would say, well, no, what you encountered was a demon who was pretending to be that person only as a way of tricking you into losing your soul.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And perhaps coming on the radio and telling these kinds of stories even in order to capture more lost souls.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and it's a belief held by many people.
		In fact, some people who have attended my workshop have held such beliefs.
		Right.
		One in particular was a woman who held that belief, and unfortunately or fortunately, her own perception had opened somewhat, and every time she laid down to go to sleep, she encountered these dark demons.
		And in the workshop, probably the one exercise I teach, that it was the only one I could teach, was one that she learned, one in which you do something to cause yourself to feel love and then project that love.
		And in that exercise, as she closed her eyes to begin the exercise, she immediately perceived these demons she had always seen.
		And as she began to cause herself to feel love, realized there was a squirt gun in her hand, a non-physical squirt gun, with a little tube connected to her heart.
		And so she took the little squirt gun and gave each one of them a shot, and they all disappeared.
		But yeah, Art, it's, you know, I'm not here to change anyone's beliefs about anything.
		And if you choose to believe that there are demons out there, I would say that it's in some ways very similar to choosing to believe that the earth is flat and that if you sail too far from the shore, you'll fall into the great abyss.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think, Bruce, that we are meant to speak with the dead?
		Do you think that Mother Nature or the creative force or whatever you want to call it wants these two planes to interact or will allow these two planes to interact?
		A lot of people feel whatever we call the veil is dropping and more and more people are communicating with the other side and eventually it'll be an open, kind of like an open meeting place and the living and the dead will speak all the time.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		I agree with that and I would say that I see that as part of the earth changes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		I see that in my view from what I've found, I would say that, first of all, that I've talked about the power of love.
		Love also has a way of opening one's perception beyond its normal limits.
		And I would say that for the last perhaps 10 years, the reality, this physical world that we live in, has been passing into what you might think of, you might think of it this way.
		You might think that somewhere in the universe there is a source of pure unconditional love energy, perhaps the size of a galaxy.
		And that a beam of this energy is passing through space, a rather large beam.
		And thinking of it in this way, I would say that for at least the last 10 years, this place we live has been passing into that energy, and that it's begun to open people's awareness automatically, that this is part of the reason that, as you said, this veil seems to be dropping more and more, this seems to be happening.
		And that in answer to your question, yes, I believe that...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, seriously, on the increase.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that might underline that a little bit.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and I would say that this is an opportunity for humankind to witness the dissolution of the veil, Of these barriers between these places where human beings exist to allow humankind to become a new form of being, one that is not separated into different areas of well, you know, that's one possibility, Bruce.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Another is that we're going to blow ourselves to bits, blow our physical world and selves to bits.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		That is a possibility.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's an interesting world we have right now, and we may not be headed toward this unconditional love cloud fast enough.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Well, we certainly have had our awareness opened to a number of things that we didn't really know about before, haven't we?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but as this momentum is underway, there's also this other force that seems to be pressing in very hard right now that could result in our utter destruction.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Physical destruction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Physical destruction, yes.
		Well, which do you think more likely to occur first?
		The general acceptance of unconditional love as we pass through this cloud opening it all up for us or utter destruction?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		My strongest desire is that this process we're going through leads us all to understand that we're all members of the same species, we're all members of the same group, and that nuking each other is counterproductive.
		My money's on unconditional love.
		Really?
		Well, you know, you bet where your heart is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, but a lot of times that's a lousy bet.
		I tried that with the NFL, and I bet the teams I love, you know.
		I love the Raiders, I love the Chargers, and these heart bets.
		Boy, you lose them all the time, Bruce.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And maybe in losing, we can still learn more about what it means to experience and express unconditional love to an ever greater degree.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And aside from that, yeah, we may blow our physical world to bits, but we are more than our physical bodies, in my opinion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's an interesting road to go down for a second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course, you've had conversations with the dead, so I was about to ask you, what makes you...
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Oh, the understanding of the nature of our soul.
		I would say that the one you're talking to, this Bruce fellow, is an individual expression of a much larger being that some people might call their greater self, some might call their higher self.
		Monroe called it his I there.
		I call it my disk only because, in my experience, that's how I encountered it.
		That I exist as an individual expression of a larger being, and that even though I'm not aware typically of that larger being, I and it are really the same being.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't suppose you've had any conversations with Robert Monroe, have you?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I knew him when he was physically alive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I meant recent conversations.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If anybody would try and reach back and have a conversation, it would certainly be Robert.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		He's certainly one of the people that I would say is still interested and active in his own way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He would be.
		And that brings up another topic.
		Are there some people who pass into the next life, hither or yon, up or down, who will not communicate with the living, who you cannot call up in the process that you described earlier?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		In my experience, that does happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Sometimes it's a temporary condition.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		When my mother died, for example, I could reach her for the first day or so for several hours after she died.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And then for a period of about a week, I couldn't find her, and I was concerned.
		Right.
		And I asked a helper, one of these non-physical folks who's out there to assist us, you know, hey, how come I can't find her?
		Where is she?
		And what he said was, well, she's in the process of doing something.
		It would be inappropriate for you to interrupt and call again later, a week later.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe she was in processing.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yes, she was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you go to the Air Force, you're in processing for a while.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't talk to anybody.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And in her specific case, she had carried along with her some of the habits of her physical life, namely some of the habits of disease and discomfort, pain that she had in her physical life.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And a lot of what she was dealing with was sort of unlearning those habits.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		A week later, I happened to be sitting outside sipping on some iced tea, and she popped into my mind and said, I'm back.
		Bruce, call your dad, and I have a message for him.
		And call your sister.
		I have a message for her.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of us, if we're lucky, Bruce, live to be a very old age, and we get infirm and we have health problems.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And frankly, by the time we die, we're pretty much wrecks.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And a lot of people wonder over there on the other side what kind of condition we're in.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		I would say that for some people in that condition, they carry, at least temporarily, the habit of the wrecked body, if you will.
		But that there is a place that I've explored and a number of people have explored in our afterlife in this third area called Focus 27 by Monroe, a place he labeled the Health and Rejuvenation Center, a place where people who carry such habits,
		you can think of it as a hospital, as a place where people are just An example, in one of my explorations of this place, I stood in a room and watched as a man was brought in who had died in a fire.
		And he was in great pain when he died.
		And he was brought in and set on sort of a table that looked a little like an operating table.
		A bunch of people came into the room, sitting in seats like amphitheater seats.
		A man walked up to the fellow laying on the table who's under a sheet and addressed the man saying, I'm Dr. So-and-so, and I'm here to treat you today.
		And I'd like you to know that you have a couple of choices.
		You can choose to be healed scar-free in an instant, or if you'd like, you can take a little while with it.
		The man under the sheet started laughing at how ridiculous it sounded that he could be healed scar-free instantly.
		After all, he thought he was still physically alive.
		And so he said, well, instantly, of course, Doc.
		And when he said that, the doctor stepped back.
		The other people in the room began to fill, I mean, the room began to fill Art with a feeling of unconditional love so strong it just makes my heart beat to remember.
		And those people then beamed the energy of unconditional love into that man who's under the sheet.
		It lasted for several seconds.
		And then the doctor, with great flourish, pulled the sheet off the man, and the next thing he knew, he was standing upright in front of the doctor, instantly looking at him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Instantly healed.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Instantly healed.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Not a scar on him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bruce, hold on.
		We're at the top of the hour.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		We're in the way on the crest out of the landscape.
		It's like magic.
		Oh, and my goodness, he's been a slave in this magic.
		We still have time to get by.
		Every time I think about it, I won't cry.
		It's only kids keep going.
		So it'll be the easy time to be alone But I'd tell myself that I was doing alright There's nothing left to do tonight That's so crazy on you Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Dive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be me.
		Good morning, everybody.
		My guest is Bruce Moen.
		We're going to take calls here in a moment and let you ask him anything you want.
		This is a man who talks to the dead.
		This is a man who has just taught you how to talk to the dead, if you so desire.
		And it'd be interesting almost to do an open line program on all of you who have done it.
		Wouldn't that be something?
		So, back to Bruce Moen and your questions coming up in a moment.
		Once again, here's Bruce Mohen.
		Bruce, I want to ask this before we dive into the telephones, and who knows what we're going to meet when we do that.
		Bruce, do you think there is a God and a devil?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		I would say that I certainly believe there is a God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Think there is a God?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And I would say that in my exploration, from that, I would say there are a number of devils.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A number of devils?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about Lucifer, the main horned guy that steals souls and puts people in fiery pits and that kind of stuff?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		I haven't found him in my explorations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, huh?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		No.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Each of the hells I talked about earlier appears to have sort of a corporate climber who aspires to be the biggest and the best, and that's the one that's the devil or the Satan of that hell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in a sense, then, the creator or the God force is the architect of both heaven and hell as you have described it.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		In my view, yes.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		You know, when I was a little kid, I tried to get a handle on this concept of God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And at that point, I knew there was this thing called the universe that was very large.
		And so in my child's way of understanding, I decided that God must be like a big brain that's slightly larger than the universe, and that everything in the universe is just a thought in the mind of God.
		And I can't really say I've improved on that much.
		And yes, I would say that both heavens and hells are a part of God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's fascinating.
unidentified		Are you ready to speak with the public?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Let's go for it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, wait, just one more thing.
		Sure.
		I know you've written books, and you've been kind enough to come on.
		I need to give you, I want to let you promote your books.
		Your latest book is Voyages into the Unknown, Exploring the Afterlife Series?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		It's called Exploring the Afterlife Series, and Voyages into the Unknown is the first of four.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And that book is sort of my early experience learning how to do this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, then your latest would be Voyages into the Afterlife?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		That's the third one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, I've got them listed here, and I looked at the last and then the first.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		The second book is called Voyage Beyond Doubt.
		I started a monster with this word voyage.
		The second book is called Voyage Beyond Doubt and talks about my experiences that eventually led to proving to myself that the afterlife exists.
		The third book, Voyages into the Afterlife, is a book that describes exploration of this Focus 27 place we haven't talked a lot about yet.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's talk.
		Actually, two things.
		Sure.
		We've got to get to that.
		But we didn't finish the story about the man and the woman who were living together, and he was trying to convince them.
		Otherwise, you'd have to give them the boot.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad you came back to that.
		He called himself a preacher, and he said, I went to their home, and I counseled them, and I told them they either had to get married or live in separate houses.
		He said, these people always did the same thing to me.
		They pulled out a Bible and they opened it to a passage in which Jesus is being questioned.
		It's the story of a man marries a woman, he dies.
		And according to Hebrew law at the time, if he had a brother, she's now the wife of the brother.
		And the brother dies, and now she's the wife of the other brother.
		And in the story, the people who are quizzing Jesus say, now, in this afterlife, you claim that exists, whose wife is she?
		And he said, they always pointed out that Jesus' words said, no one is taken or given in marriage in the kingdom of heaven.
		He said, every time I went to tell them they had to get married or move out, they would hit me with this passage in the Bible and tell me, that's the word of Jesus Christ.
		And if you're telling us something different, we're going with what Jesus said.
		He said that eventually push came to shove, and one Sabbath morning, he decided today was the day, and they were standing sort of in the middle of the congregation, and he asked the couple to stand up, and he told them that today was the day.
		Either you agree to get married, or you agree to move into separate houses, or I'm going to cast you out.
		He said the couple came up in front of the congregation, faced the congregation, and said, if we have to give up our love for each other or go against the word of Jesus Christ in the Bible to stay here, then cast us out.
		He said, I performed the ceremony, and they disappeared right in front of the congregation.
		And he said, as far as I knew, I had just sent them to hell.
		He said he went into his office after the service, and he was feeling a little upset about what he had done.
		After all, these people did love each other, and they did have a point in the word of Jesus.
		And he said, I got down on my knees, and I started praying to Jesus to know that what I did was right.
		And he said, it started to get light in my office.
		He said, it got intensely bright in my office.
		And when I turned around to see what the light was, he said, there was Jesus Christ standing in front of me.
		And Jesus said to me, the love of Christ is for all, even for those, the least of them.
		And he said, I knew he was telling me that his love was even for the ones I had cast out.
		He said, this was terribly upsetting.
		And in fact, he went to other preachers and told the story about Jesus' visits, and they didn't know what to make of it.
		He ended up speaking with some of the old venerated preachers of the time, and they told him they knew what was going on.
		They said, that was not Jesus who came into your office.
		That was Satan himself who came into his office.
		He's trying to deceive you.
		He said, this was a problem because one of the rules he had preached was that once you got to heaven, you were safe.
		Satan could never get in there.
		And now they were telling him that Satan had come in.
		He said, this was against the rules.
		He continued to be very concerned and eventually decided that he would accept the word of Jesus, who visited him in the office and began to preach that message.
		Began to preach that the love of Christ was for all, even for the couple he had cast out.
		Naming that couple, which was against the rules, one of the rules was if someone was cast out, you're never to mention their name again.
		He mentioned their name.
		He said one Sabbath morning there were two of the oldest venerated preachers of the line in his congregation, and he said, I knew what was going to happen, and they did.
		He said they stood up as soon as I said the names, and they began to tell me that I was preaching the word of Satan, that I was deceiving my congregation, and I had to agree to stop, or they were going to cast me out.
		And he said, I found it quite ironic.
		I had to stand in front of my congregation, which had grown.
		I had to add services, he said.
		I found it quite ironic, he said, that I had to tell them, if I have to go against the word of Jesus Christ to stay here, then I guess you'll have to cast me out.
		They came ahead and performed the ceremony, and he fully expects to find himself in hell.
		He said, I found myself floating in blackness, and a light began to approach, and as the light got closer, I realized it was the same Jesus Christ who had visited my office, who explained to me that I had been in what's called a hollow heaven, and that I had some choices to make.
		I could go back in, which was forbidden by the rules.
		I could choose to incarnate again, or I could choose to come and work at a place called the House of God Center in Foc 27, of all things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which brings us to Focus 27, or maybe we could call it Area 27.
		Sure, right.
		So Area 27, what is that?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		It's the third major area of our afterlife existence, and it's an area I would describe as one in which all the people there are in free association with all the other people there.
		That no one's beliefs are forced on anyone else, no one's will is forced on anyone else.
		It's a place where thoughts are things and anything you desire.
		I mean, Art, maybe you'd like to live in a huge house overlooking the ocean in the tropics.
		Focus 27 is a place where the act of imagining such a place creates it in a way that is so real to you that it's just like a physical reality.
		A place where there's really no need to work for a living.
		I mean, you want a steak, you want it done exactly the way you like it.
		Just imagine it, and it's as real as it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then you certainly are telling me then that in the afterlife there is physicality as we understand it here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you're talking steaks the way you want them, and beer and women and sex and all that, right?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		I would say that for the inhabitants of these realities, their surroundings are as real to them as ours is to us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's very hopeful.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		That it's, you know, you and I wouldn't call it physical, but the people who are there would say, I created this wonderful chair and I'm sitting in it.
		I can see it here.
		You want to sit in it?
		You can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		God, a place where there's NFL and no baseball and no hockey.
		All right.
		All right, listen, we've got to go to the phones here.
		I promised, and people are waiting.
		First-time caller line, you're on the air with Bruce Moen.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
		This is Jenny.
		Hi, Bruce.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Ginny.
unidentified		How are you doing?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Pretty good.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Jenny is someone who's attended my workshop, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, she got in on the first-time caller line.
		So good, Ginny.
		You've been to his workshops.
		What do you think?
unidentified		Art, I just wanted to say one thing real quickly, and I'd be happy to answer that question.
unidentified		I really enjoy your show, especially the music.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		And I have a select comfort bed.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Aren't they something?
unidentified		I've been listening to so many of these ads tonight.
		Yeah, they are.
		They're great.
		I, 16 months ago, discovered Bruce Moen's website and began reading his first book.
		Right.
		October of last year, I attended his workshop, but long before I got to his workshop, I had been very interested in wanting to know why I was here, what this was all about.
		I felt I had the right to not only ask those questions, but to get proof that there is life beyond what we call death from my own direct experience.
		Why couldn't I go and find out for myself?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what this program is all about.
unidentified		Sure.
		Why do I have to believe in what others tell me, especially when those beliefs don't quite jive with me?
		So I was very interested in what he was teaching, but I just would like to say that I was very skeptical not only of his teachings, but anyone else's.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you still?
unidentified		No.
		Because, and I'll tell you why.
		I began applying his simple techniques, and all along I was thinking, oh, I'm just making this up.
		But I went along with it.
		And I, from reading Bruce's book, decided that, well, why don't I just go to Focus 27, place the intention to be there, and create a wonderful park where I could be.
		So, in using my imagination, I did this.
		I borrowed a park from my childhood and added some flowers and trees and whatnot.
		And while I was there, something very interesting happened.
		Someone appeared, and I couldn't really completely see them.
		They seemed to be very bright and shiny, but I received a feeling knowing that it was my deceased mother.
		Now, I'm still thinking, oh, this is interesting.
		You know, I'm making this up.
		But I went along with it.
		And it was kind of an emotional reunion.
		Still skeptical.
		And then she asked me if I would just follow her somewhere.
		And all of a sudden, I'm in territory that, you know, this wasn't my plan.
		I didn't have the intention to follow anybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is really the moment that Bruce was talking about when what you have created suddenly surprises you and something happens that is not from your imagination and it takes over.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words.
unidentified		The unexpected.
unidentified		Something unexpected that suddenly enters into the scene.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That happened to you.
unidentified		Yes.
		And so I decided to follow her.
		Why not?
		My thinking was, well, if I am making this up, so what?
		Let's just follow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's go with it.
unidentified		Let's go with it.
		So I did.
		And we seemed to travel into an area that was kind of where I would say foggy.
		And please keep in mind that all of this is being seen through what we see in the mind's eye.
		If you're daydreaming, what you're seeing in your mind's eye, okay?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		It can be very clear, it can be not clear.
		But the important thing is to follow the knowing feelings that you get.
		But anyway, I followed her, and the next thing I knew, I was in a place that seemed to be identical to my grandfather's lake home.
		And she, in essence, told me that he was down on the beach all by himself.
		He had been there since he died.
		And I went down and approached him, and he was in a state of depression.
		He was happy to see me.
		It wasn't long before I discovered why he was there.
		He felt that he had been responsible for his daughter's, my mother's demise, her mental problems and so forth, and her unhappiness, which he hadn't been.
		But psychiatrists had told him he had been responsible before he passed away, you know, being her father-in-law.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So he was in a self-imposed hell sort of focus.
unidentified		No, focus 23.
		Yeah, but he was isolated.
		He wasn't associating with any other.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I understand, but he was still imposing this, in essence, on himself.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		Absolutely.
		Yes.
		And that's what we create in that focus.
		Self-imposed little isolated hells or whatever.
		So I sat with him, and I was very worried about talking to him about my beliefs.
		Oh, for instance, about the possibility of reincarnation and so forth, and that he didn't have to really be here in such isolation that And he seemed to take it okay, and he listened.
		And then I didn't know what else to do, Art.
		So I just said goodbye and hoped that I would be seeing him again.
		And when I came out of this relaxed state, this contact with my grandfather, it hit me like a brick wall that I had been presented with my first retrieval experience.
		So I went back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You went back?
unidentified		I went back to my grandfather.
		He was still there.
		And I sat down with him and was determined to perhaps talk with him and just help him to understand that he wasn't guilty for my mother's life and death.
		He didn't need to be here anymore.
		He could come with me to a place where he would be with others who were loving.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I want you to hold it right there.
		And I have to take a break.
		I have to abide by the clock here.
		Network says so.
		So break here, and we'll continue with all this in just a moment.
		Fascinating.
		Here's a young lady who did it.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		I'm Art Bell.
		I'm Art Bell.
		To recharge Bell in the Kingdom of Nye.
		From west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To recharge on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It certainly is.
		Good morning.
		Bruce Moen is my guest, and we've got a young lady on the line who has followed, actually been to his seminars and done as he has suggested can be done.
		And in terms of talking to the dead, she has done it.
		She has done a retrieval.
		We don't quite have all of the details yet, but it sounds to me like she's suggesting to us it absolutely works.
		We'll get the rest of the story in a moment.
		All right, once again, back to my guest, Bruce Moen, and this young lady.
		And young lady, if you would please, you say you went back, and so by all means, please continue.
unidentified		Yeah, Art, I went back, and the very next day, as a matter of fact, and I was a little bit apprehensive about sitting down with my grandfather again at his beach and sharing with him my beliefs about the fact that we can live many times in the physical.
		He doesn't need to be in this isolation anymore.
		And I'd been reluctant simply because I had only known my grandfather to be non-religious.
		He refused to go to church.
		We never talked about any religious beliefs at all.
		But I went ahead and shared this information with him.
		And he began, he just listened a great deal.
		And finally, he stood up and he was staring out at the lake, and I didn't quite know what to do next, so I was just standing there.
		And he turned around and said something that completely changed my life.
		He said to me, you know something, Ginny?
		The Masons believed in reincarnation, too.
		Well, two things there, Art.
		What is this about Masons?
		I did not know.
		Was he saying he had been a Mason?
		And number two, the Masons believe in reincarnation, and he'd even been open to that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
unidentified		So I was absolutely shocked in my mind, standing there on this beach with my grandfather.
		I was tongue-tied.
		I didn't know what to do or say.
		And then he just indicated that, okay, he would go.
		He would leave with me.
		And we did.
		And my mother then arrived as we were leaving, as well as another person who Bruce described as a helper.
		These are people who have experienced physical earth life and who choose now to help out of love.
		And they eventually just escorted him on.
		And I literally was flying down.
		And when I came out of this state, I was just beside myself.
		I was shocked.
		I ran to the computer to learn about Masons.
		And sure enough, I found out that they accepted members of all religious beliefs, including Micah.
		I didn't know any of this.
		I then contacted my aunt, who's sole surviving child, my deceased mother's sister, and said, was your father, my grandfather, a Mason?
		And she wanted to know how I knew this.
		It had been a tremendous embarrassment to my grandmother that he was involved with this non-Christian thing.
		You see what I mean?
		It was a negative thing to a Christian person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		And so she had made, I thought she had made sure that the grandchildren would not be influenced by my grandfather.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There was your verification.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		It completely knocked my socks off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
		I can't thank you enough for calling.
		We're going to have to go, but I really appreciate your story.
		Thank you.
unidentified		Thank you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, that was just chance.
		That wasn't set up or anything else.
		That's amazing.
		So there's somebody who did it, Bruce.
		Bruce, I understand that you would like to have people attend your seminars, but have you told us enough in the program tonight so that people can try this with some hope of success based on what you've told us?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Well, Art, there is quite a bit more to it.
		Certainly, as Jenny just described, she hadn't been to the seminar when she attempted this, and she got her verification right away, which is very good.
		But there are more things to know.
		Things like our beliefs can affect how we perceive over there and what we perceive over there.
		There are a number of, certainly in a two-day seminar, there's more than just the little bit of imagination.
		There are a number of concepts and ideas that I've come to understand through the years of doing this, including things like beliefs, including things like the nature of the way we perceive in non-physical reality can cause us to inaccuracy to creep in in what we're doing.
		So I would say, yes, people could certainly use that method and make contact.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And go explore.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And go explore.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		There's more to know about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where do you hold these seminars, by the way?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Well, the way these seminars happen, Art, is that someone typically who visits my website contacts me and volunteers to host one in their area.
		I see.
		The person who hosts attends for free.
		The one that Ginny attended after her experience was in Friday Harbor off the coast of Washington State.
		The person who volunteers to host handles the logistics of a place to hold a workshop and snacks and that sort of thing, and then I come and do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, how many of these have you done?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Oh, probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 35.
		I've done this all over the States.
		I've done my workshop several times in Australia, in Korea, Ireland, Germany.
		The Korean one was interesting in that I didn't speak a word of Korean, and most of the people in the room didn't speak a word of English, so it was done through a translator.
		And it was one of the early workshops I did, and I was quite surprised that none of those people understood a word I said.
		They only understood the interpreter, and yet they all had experiences, in some cases, similar to Ginny's.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's amazing.
		All right.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Bruce Mohan.
		Hello.
unidentified		Well, hi, Bruce.
		I know you touched on this previously, but I'd like to take it a little bit deeper.
		If a couple gets married and they're very in love with each other, almost on the level of soulmates, and one spouse does die and the other one's left on this physical plane, and the other one doesn't go to a hollow heaven but goes to the real afterlife, and then the one on the physical plane gets married again, and they're obviously just as deeply in love with this other person.
		Now, when all three of these people, or who knows, sometimes there might be multiple marriages, and with people as deeply in love with each other, how is this resolved in heaven?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How does it play out in heaven?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Well, in the little bit of experience I have with such things, I would say that they will be reunited in that in the afterlife, the original couple will certainly be able to meet with each other,
		communicate with each other, and perhaps this idea that we can only love one person is a physical world thing that we've taken on as a belief.
		And if these are truly loving people, I would have to surmise that the three of them will be able to exist in a way that's beneficial for all.
		And I don't mean necessarily married again or anything like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sounds a little communal.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		As I said before, this focus 27 place, a place where no one forces their will or beliefs on another person.
		In such an encounter, people who've gotten to that place in our afterlife are the kind of people who would not force their will on their previous mate.
		Each person would be allowed by the other to do as they themselves seem best fit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Bruce Mullen.
		Hello.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Am I on the air?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think you are, yeah.
unidentified		I hope you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you're not, we're in trouble.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		This is the best show in America, number one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Glad you appreciate it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And, Bruce, I'm looking forward to reading your books, and I'm very, very interested in finding out more about this.
		This has to tie in with the unconditional love.
		I've contacted, and I do, without a doubt in my mind, believe that there is life after death, eternal life.
		And I'm very interested in finding out more about that in reading your books, Bruce.
		In 1979, I sailed across the Gulf, and I'm going to go as fast as I can so that you can get this story.
		This was a true story that really happened.
		I sailed across the Gulf from Galveston, Texas.
		I ended up on an island west of Key West called the Dry Tortugas.
		The maintenance man knew the gentleman I sailed over there with.
		They had met before.
		He asked him to take me up to Mudd Cell.
		And Dr. Mudd, I don't know if you remember, he was the one who helped John Wilkes Booth saved his life, who assassinated Lincoln.
		And anyways, he was sentenced to life in prison at the dry tortugas at Fort Jefferson.
		So we go up to this cell where he was held prisoner, and we go in this first room, and it was very warm, and woman's perfume was as strong as it could be all over this place, like somebody had spilt a bottle of woman's perfume down on the floor.
		And me and Mark looked at each other, and we just kind of it was fairly dark.
		We went into the next room.
		There were only two rooms in this cell.
		This room was very cool.
		No woman's perfume, nothing strange about it, just but a very peaceful feeling in this place to think, you know, this was a prison cell.
		And we come back into the room that we had just come out of that we had entered where we smelled the perfume.
		No woman's perfume at all.
		None whatsoever.
		And the room was the same temperature as the one we had just left.
		Well, I couldn't explain it.
		And I've come in contact with the dead since I was seven years old.
		My grandmother was a psychic.
		And I mean, I don't want to go into all that, but at any rate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, do you have a question specifically?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		What I found out later was what this was.
		I watched this movie called Dr. Mudd.
		And what happened was his wife got a presidential pardon to allow him to be released from this island because he saved everybody's life from yellow fever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And at the end of this movie, it was like a documentary.
		At the end of the movie, it showed her meeting him at that cell.
		And I believe that that was her who greeted us at that door.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And that's when, 10 years later, I seen the movie art, and that's when it hit me like a ton of good.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		I thought, my God, that's it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, that would imply, Bruce, that in some cases we are indeed stuck in places of great import during our lives.
		We're stuck.
		I mean, there she was.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Or at least the smell of perfume.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And yes, some people who are stuck do get stuck in places that they are familiar with and comfortable with or have some strong connection with their physical life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you do your seminars, I suppose you get a disproportionate number of people who do want to talk to the dead, who do want to communicate with the dead, or they wouldn't come to your seminar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the general population, in the people listening to you tonight, which would number in the millions, what percentage do you think would say no, thank you?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I guess I would have to maybe pick the other side and say there are probably 10% of the people listening or maybe more who would want to, and the others are divided amongst that's too dangerous.
		I can't go there.
		And some who are just not interested.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But 10%, you think, will give it a shot?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		I think so.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		And yes, the people who come to my seminar certainly are a self-selected group.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Predisposed, yeah.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you are on the air with Bruce Mullen.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		I'm in Tucson, Arizona.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tucson.
		I'm sorry about that.
		Missed the first part.
		Go ahead, sir.
unidentified		That's fine.
unidentified		I was wondering, Bruce, do you ever get people, I mean, excuse me, are you able to reach people on the other side, relatives of people that are on the phone with you?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad you asked that question.
		I'm not a medium.
		I'm not someone like John Edward or Prague who does this for people.
		I'm the kind of person who teaches others how to do it for themselves or to do it for others.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Makes absolute sense.
		First time caller line, not a lot of time.
		First time callers, area code 775-727-1222.
		Linda, I'm going to have to bleep that out.
		The one rule we have here is you're not allowed to use your last name on the air, so let's begin again.
		You are Linda, and where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Scottsdale.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		And I would like Bruce to cover some of the areas of the beings that are not in physical form, but that are not of the Earth plane, but further out than that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		In other words, beings, Bruce, that you have encountered.
		You said you had encountered them.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Beings that were never human.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		In fact, in my third book, Voyages Into the Afterlife, there's quite a bit of information about contact with a group of beings that I called Second Gaz Group.
		It's an odd name, but these essentially were a group of beings who claimed to live on a home world, a physical planet within our physical universe, who claimed that they were in an area that Monroe described as the gathering, an area in which the reason they were here was that they were observing these earth changes we talked briefly about.
		And in communication with them a number of times and over a period of years, sort of following along with their progress, this particular group was a group that I would describe as a telepathic race.
		And a number of these beings I've encountered, you know, we humans tend to think of ourselves as isolated, separated individuals.
		This particular group was a group that had a completely different form of consciousness.
		They were a very large population, but essentially all shared the same mind, a telepathic race, if you will.
		I've encountered some others, a few others, but none with as much...
		Yes, and I would say that my understanding of what telepathic meant was very, very thin and watery compared to what it's really like.
		These individuals essentially, because of the evolutionary path of consciousness they chose, essentially all used and Had access to the same mind, and it required that their existence be a very cooperative existence in which none of them expressed strong individual thoughts or experiences lest they disturb that mind they all shared.
		So hive mentality, as long as we keep the board out of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's amazing.
		There are going to be a lot of people, Bruce, who are going to want to know more about what you do.
		We have an obvious link on our website to your website.
		That would be a beginning point.
		You have books.
		We also have a link that would take people to like amazon.com or whatever, and they can get your books.
		Or do you have an email address that you would care to give out?
		Think hard before you do that.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do.
		Okay.
		And that email address is B as in Bruce, A as in M, Moen, M-O-E-N.
		So B-A-Moen at the word afterlife at a hyphen wordknowledge.com.
		B-A-Moen at afterlife-knowledge.com.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that's B-A-Moen, boy America Moen, M-O-E-N, at afterlife dash or hyphen knowledge.com.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're going to get a lot of email.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, every time I turn the thing on, I get about 35 pieces of junk email and two or three pieces that are worth reading.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Maybe I'll get more that's worth reading.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, the internet is pretty much full of viruses right now.
		All forms of viruses right now.
		I think it's separating the idiots from the smart people, and all the idiots will open the viruses, and they will be off the internet and off their computer for an extended period of time, and the smart ones will not.
		So it's sort of an evolutionary process on the internet.
		But you'll get a lot of real email from this.
		That's B-A, BoyAmerica, B-A, Moen, M-O-E-N, at afterlife-or hyphen, if you will, knowledge.com.
		Very easy.
		I really, really appreciate your being on the program this morning, Bruce, and we're going to have you back again, I'm certain.
		It's fascinating what you're doing.
		A little dangerous from my point of view, but fascinating.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know what?
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Columbus did was dangerous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		That's right.
		And if he hadn't sailed, and he hadn't...
		Yeah.
		Bruce, thank you.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much, Ert.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night, my friend.
bruce moen ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was something, wasn't it?
		Somebody earlier said it, and they're right.
		There is no other program like this, as far as I know, anywhere.
		Certainly is enjoyable.
		From the high desert, I'm Mark Bell.

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