All Episodes
Previous Next
June 4, 2002 - Art Bell
02:26:04
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Bruce Moen - Afterlife Knowledge. Steve Quayle - Nuclear India and Pakistan
| Copy link to current segment

Time Text
All our times are come We're put down and gone
Seasons don't feel the reverse Not to the wind, the sun or the rain
It can be like this Come on baby, don't feel the fever
Baby take my hand, don't feel the fever Baby let me fly, don't feel the fever
Baby I'm your man Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye
From West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255 East of the Rockies 1-800-825-5033
First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222 And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295
My guest is Stephen Quayle.
free international line call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
Sure is. My guest is Stephen Quayle. You've got to have a an attitude about this kind of thing.
You know, if they're going to go to war there's not a whole hell of a lot we can do about it.
Or maybe there is.
You know, Rick Hogan the other night was saying there is, and we could actually stop it if it got started.
I'm not as confident about that.
This is what Stephen Quayle has on his website.
It is really cool.
I don't know, I kind of like it.
By the way, you'll notice on my website tonight, on the webcam photo, I've got a Premier Network Operations t-shirt on.
They just sent that to me.
Thank you very much, guys.
And, uh, in celebration of that, I think... See, I'm on the Map Blaster page.
And so, where is my network?
They're in Sherman Oaks, California.
So I think I'm going to blow them up.
Let's see.
Why?
Well, let's go for, let's see, a one megaton surface blast.
That sounds good.
One megaton service blast fallout map.
Damage map, fallout map.
Let's go with the damage map and make it one, uh, one megaton.
And let's go down here and put in Sherman Oaks, California, US.
And now all we have to do is hit the detonate button, which is red.
And...
Looks like it, uh, detonates somewhere near Oxnard Street, and... Let's see... There's the network.
Oh, no.
Wouldn't be there.
Wouldn't be there.
In fact, it blasted out to Burbank, actually, so... Hmm.
Well, there went the network.
All right, uh, in a moment, uh, back to Stephen Quayle.
Well, Steven, I really like your map damage setup here.
Destroying the network was actually somewhat satisfying, hitting that red button.
You know how you could make it even a little better?
You would need some moving GIFs, but what you have is you have a mushroom cloud, and you show it detonating at the precise place, and then spreading out, and then you have little red rays that are the radiation.
Just a suggestion.
The other thing good about that is you can show the fallout pattern and the fallout pattern would be good too.
You could extrapolate that.
Absolutely.
because you could even extract, extrapolate that into a biological release because obviously
the winds, there's an assumption in this model.
And by the way, it's not mine.
We, you know, I did not develop this.
I just want to make it clear, but we wanted to put it on the website so people could see.
Also there's that Nuclear War Survival Skills.
That's a book that's free that people can download.
I find that people don't understand, you know, because they've put it out of their mind or
just haven't had to deal with it before.
But on the same page over to the left, Nuclear War Survival Skills, that's written by Crescent
Kearney.
and it's probably the best source of information if someone wants to know what they can do.
Here's a question for you.
Suppose I were to say to you that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not sufficient, obviously not sufficient lessons for the world.
And that if there is to be a nuclear detonation somewhere in the world, Uh, Indian Pakistan, uh, from our point of view here in the States, look like a much better, uh, contemporary example to the world of what not to do than, uh...
Then an exchange between China and the US or Russia in the US or anybody in the US in other words having it happen
over There from our point of view probably would provide a
lesson the world Perhaps never would forget or is that ignoring all history?
I don't know Well, I think you're onto something there because not only
would it maybe teach a lesson But it could bring about a cry could have for you know
We're government and the world police force and we've got to prevent this sort of thing from happening
See, I don't believe it's going to stay contained over there.
Art, before we went into Afghanistan on our operation over there, remember the big issue was who controlled Pakistan's nuclear weapons?
Because Osama Bin Laden and Mullah Omar and some of those guys made the claim they do.
And so I want to throw a wild card into this whole scenario right now.
If for any reason the terrorists have control of some of the weapons, a couple of the weapons, I can tell you this.
That I don't think Bagram Air Force or Bagram Air Force Base is, you know, in Afghanistan is a safe place to be because I think that the Taliban and Al-Qaeda are pretty much kissing cousins with the Pakistani Intelligence Service, which is called the ISI.
And that's never been satisfied.
The question is who really does control?
Ultimately, the Pakistani military controls theirs.
Now, you asked me what the percentage of Uh, what I thought the percentage of, if there's a terrorist incident, another provocative incident, I'd say it's 99%.
If not, I'd put it right now, right at this point at 80%, between Pakistan and India.
80%?
90%?
You know, Pakistan has been claiming that it has been stopping the infiltration of the area by extremists.
Have they?
No.
No, huh?
And India's bitching about that, and I suppose in a sense we are too.
What do you really think that the U.S.
position in all this is?
I had Richard Oglen on the other night.
You know what he said?
He said that we have the technology to actually Um, blast those things in the, in the, in the lift phase and prevent that war essentially from occurring.
Uh, we, we, we, do you think we do?
Yes, I do, but I think what Richard Hoagland is missing is the fact that you can have low, very low technology delivery systems.
You know, we're talking about missiles, intercontinental ballistic missile.
We have our different space-based weapons platforms that are operational.
When you're talking about some of the really short-range ballistic missiles, I don't think that we have the time, because again, seven minutes Now if we wanted to facilitate and basically target each and every launcher, and my question is could we find them all?
We couldn't seemingly find all the Scuds during Desert Storm.
You remember when Saddam Hussein was moving them around the desert?
I would just say this, I find it highly unlikely because pretty much Pakistan's going to be Using F-16 aircraft.
They're going to be using aircraft, you know, nuclear bombs in addition to their missiles.
And I can tell you this, no one ever tells the truth.
You can bet your bottom dollar when they're saying they have this many, they probably have more.
So, you know, really trying to focus in on who's got what.
is almost maybe uh... it's counterproductive the point is is that these guys both these countries have
to understand that this isn't just you know uh...
throwing out sticks and stones with a bigger stick a bigger stone that the
ramifications are going to be awesome getting back to your question could it be used as let's
just call it this i'd guinea pig
type exchange to bring about a you know a change in world perspective and real
macabre way to look at all this for sure yes but but i don't think it's it's
unreasonable because again the thing is is that in order to uh...
you know to bring quote the world under the one world government an umbrella
they're going to have to say look at what look at the world on the verge of
destroying stuff now if you throw in the middle east going up simultaneously
And then, you know, look at all the... I don't... You know, Fox and MSNBC, they're carrying nuclear terrorist stuff every single hour of the hour.
I know.
Answer this for me, Stephen.
If the balloon went up with India and Pakistan, what do you think China's readiness condition would turn to?
What do you think the Russians' readiness condition would turn to?
And here in the U.S., do you think that Um, Putin and the President got that straightened out when they last talked.
I mean, they had to see this conceivably coming, so it had to be, like, one of the topics.
Absolutely.
Russia is on India's side.
Russia, a week ago, stated that they would provide an uninterrupted flow of arms and materials into India.
China is backing Pakistan.
See, that's the other wild card.
And we're basically probably behind the scenes backing India, I would bet.
Yes, we are.
And the thing that's... Understand, there's only one force that can really challenge China in the years to come.
Would be a nuclear India with about a thousand warheads.
That's a billion people to their billion, too.
So in other words, in other words, I'm trying to look behind the scenes here, and we're beginning to do that.
In other words, if the balloon went up, we and the Russians probably would be on India's side, sorta.
And the Chinese would be on Pakistan's side, sorta.
Correct.
And you've got to wonder, you've got to wonder about all that a little bit.
How far Would China go in supporting Pakistan, do you think?
Well, China's got a mutual defense pact with Pakistan.
You remember when Musharraf was over with the premiere of China a couple weeks ago, actually about a month ago now, and they basically reconfirmed their commitment.
I think the other question people have to ask, will this provide some kind of a springboard to Taiwan?
Because right now you and I are talking The Chinese have their whole military operations going on, their war games, so to speak.
What bothers me is all these events seem to be clustering right now.
When events cluster, it's kind of like putting all the fuel rods into the reactor at the same time.
Something's got to give.
That's what I'm really concerned about.
Isn't it when you pull the fuel rods out that the reaction goes wild?
Right, but I'm using it in a different sense of the word.
Actually, you know, in essence, everything is going, you're efficient, I'm talking fusion, I'm talking everything's going into critical mass.
Yeah, it's a very hard time right now, there's no question about it.
And then, in order to, for me anyway, you know, For me to mentally handle this, I almost have to get light
about it. I don't know why.
It's just too... the magnitude of it is...
Too horrifying.
Too horrifying to contemplate, and so I sort of cop an attitude about it, I guess.
Well, I think the best way to deal with it is people really, you know, like again,
you know, they can download Nuclear War Survival Skills written by a physicist,
written by a guy that worked at Oak Ridge Laboratories, Cresson Kearney.
It's all low-tech stuff, and it gives them a feel for what can happen.
I think, also, the thing that people need to recognize is that this is serious.
This is no longer, you know, hi, turn on Channel 7, hear about the nuclear war that may be happening, and then go watch the baseball game.
I think people have to prioritize what they're saying, and I think our country, the United States, is really Really missing the boat here because they could be telling people look the world's changed, you know You remember the 60s, you know that we should have an active civil defense program nationally like Switzerland Finland all of the all of the Scandinavian countries do but why don't we run?
What about the old saying that if a major war occurred?
Let's say the worst happened.
We and the Russians were to back India China backs Pakistan we get mix it up with them a little bit and and So, a lot of people have said, well, I would rather not survive a major nuclear war, and the survivors would be the sorry ones.
What about that attitude?
There's a lot of that out there, you know.
Well, sure, that attitude, though, you know, generally the people that say that won't end up at ground zero, and I think it's kind of an escape.
It's easier to make that statement than to prepare.
I think if the people would think about, when I say preparing, look, the bottom line is that we've talked about this on your show before.
People have got to know this, that under The current, not only this administration, but previous administrations, no effort or expense was made on civil defense, civilian defense.
We even see that in the hurricanes when, you know, FEMA and the government agencies try and get in there and help.
They're basically too late and it takes them too long to get what's needed.
It won't do people any good to have potassium iodide, you know, stuck in different cities around the country if there's a terrorist attack in this country and all transportation comes to a halt.
You know, the point that I'm trying to make is this, is that, again, I agree with you.
You've almost got to be almost a little bit sarcastic, cynical, and kind of gloss it over, because we're talking about some pretty dramatic things.
And the dramatic things that can take place over there can affect us here.
And the question is, Will any of the Muslim terrorists in Pakistan in conjunction with the Muslim terrorists, and I'm only saying because they've made the statement, Al-Qaeda are terrorists, they are making the statement, that we're going to get it.
Did you see that article two days ago that Al-Qaeda said, get ready, we're going to get it?
Oh yes.
How did you come up with the, I mean from 12 million to 100 and something million, how do you make that jump?
Well, you make that jump when you figure out that the first 12 million number was pretty much based on assuming that there was a 10% usage of weapons, and then the deal is U.S.
Air Force using that specific computer program.
That's how they came up with it.
Okay, those are the U.S.
Air Force's numbers, not mine.
So if you just take, like I said, you take the three cities, Delhi, Bombay, and Karachi, there's 38 million people right there.
And you know, we can't do the little map-a-blast for them, but the point being is that when you do, you know, just project the average yield.
By the way, the average yield on a Pakistani warhead is considered to be about 35 kilotons, okay?
And the deal is, is that India claims... That's what, 35 times the size of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, right?
Well, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, there's different varying opinions, but let's just say this, it's a good solid three to five times that size, because Hiroshima was one yield, and Nagasaki... See, where the bombs are exploded, you know, you're saying surface burst.
Surface burst is obviously on the surface of the Earth, and air burst actually does more damage.
Surface burst produces more fallout.
And so, you know, I would guess pretty much... How do you kill more people?
With a surface burst or an air burst?
Probably in the density of population, the way it is.
You know, either one's going to accomplish it, because you're talking about some of these cities are so densely populated, it really won't make any difference.
Wouldn't it be lower tech to have a surface burst?
In other words, go off when you hit the ground?
Oh yeah, and also you could put that in the back of a pickup and get, you know, somebody to drive it into town.
You know, see that's what people forget, the same thing with ships.
You know, Pakistan's got seaports, so does India.
And what most people don't realize is India's got about, I think, 42 ships, the fourth largest navy in the world.
Then what about the old mutual assured destruction?
And indeed, a hundred million dead or better, that's mutual assured destruction.
Suicidal.
They are, no matter who launches first, they're not going to be able to win and decapitate the other side.
The other side is going to be able to react.
There's going to be an exchange and it is utter, absolute suicide.
And by the way, I've seen articles saying that after it's all over, the U.S.
would have to go in and clean it all up.
India doesn't believe it's mutual assured destruction, and for the record, Russia never operated under that principle.
Although they never launched on us, they felt that a nuclear war, I'm saying they felt that it was survivable.
That's the Chinese's current statement too in what are called their white papers.
China makes no bones about it.
They believe they will basically fight a nuclear war with the United States and that they will survive.
Do you think that if there was a war between India and Pakistan that didn't escalate beyond that point and a hundred million died, would that be enough for the world to say, okay, we can see, we learned our lesson, this is something we've all got to get rid of.
I'll tell you why, because you still have the guy with 10 sheep and the guy with 5 sheep and the guy with 10 sheep still going to want the other guy's 5 sheep.
In other words, you're not going to get Russian China to lay down their arms.
I doubt you're going to get the United States to lay down its arms.
It's kind of funny because it's like the old adage, once the genie's out of the bottle, And boy, the genies, plural, are out of the bottle.
You know, you can't put them back in.
And I think that the point that people... That's some serious sheep.
Yeah, and you know, the point is that you're talking about reasonable people.
I would assume that having read the Pakistani War Doctrine in the last 48 hours and listening to their biggest generals, both retired and active, and they basically say, hey, it's a given.
We'll have to go this way.
And India's saying, it's a given.
We're going to go in, boys, and we're going to basically ask you to make the supreme sacrifice in a decisive war.
Who do you think is likely to start the conventional aspect of the war?
You know, I mean, I don't know if you consider it war, but I mean, they're blasting each other.
Yeah, I know.
There's gunfire and artillery going right now.
But I mean, you know, when the troops move into each other's territory, I think that will have to be India to initiate it.
So India starts the conventional aspect of it.
Pakistan probably starts the nuclear aspect of it.
Correct.
India retaliates.
And from there it heats up and then we get to our 72 hours.
Now the other thing is, is that the terrorists, okay, if the terrorists, meaning the guys that are India is saying to Musharraf, you've got to rein these guys in or we're going to war, they could initiate something.
And again, the thing that I'm concerned about is to the degree that those guys are willing to go.
And we all know the degree they're willing to, they don't care about their lives.
So, you know, the point is, is that jihad is jihad.
What people don't understand is the Hindus and the Muslims do not have much love for each other.
No.
And so, you know, that's what's scary.
By the way, it's interesting.
6,500 years ago, in the Indians' writings in the Mahabharata, they talk about a nuclear war.
And so it's kind of interesting, isn't it?
If that was one of the places in prehistory, even Dr. Oppenheimer of the famous Manhattan Project, the guy that brought us the atom bomb?
Yes.
He, he believed that the Indians were the first ones to actually experience ancient atomic warfare.
Now, people may say, well, that's really far out, but that guy was no slouch.
And here we are right now, 6,500 years later in the same battlefield, and they're ready to turn the seat of glass.
And you're thinking the odds are pretty heavily in favor of this is going to happen, huh?
I don't believe the news.
I've taken the news that comes from that area and just forget it.
Throw it out.
Any kind of news about what's going on.
And people may recall that there was peace being preached by the Japanese just before they hit Pearl Harbor.
So you can take the news and just throw it out.
It means nothing.
Maybe this will go away and maybe everything will be alright.
Or maybe there's going to be a nuclear war.
But whatever the news is telling you tonight, it's bull.
Right.
And see, that's why I don't read the American news.
You know, I mean, I'm on Hindustan, Pakistan, Pravda, the English language version of Pravda.
Isn't it interesting they can tell the truth more often than the Washington Times?
Oh, don't get me started.
Even the BBC.
Yep.
That's where I get all my news.
Good news.
Yep.
But what I'm saying is I basically have divorced myself from...
Uh, an American perspective on the news because I don't care what we're saying.
Our analysts, look, we know the failure of our intelligence community, we know the failure of their analysts, we know the failure of Everything else and the bottom line is is that you know, I want to listen to the guy says hey on such-and-such a date I'm gonna do it on such-and-such a date.
He does it.
I'll pay attention to it.
All right, Steven We're out of time hours up.
Listen brother.
Thank you very very much for the information Thanks art.
May I just tell people to that?
They can call me at 1-800-424-7870 because a lot of people say it again say the number again 1-800-424-7870 424-7870.
All right, real good.
Thank you, Steven.
Thanks, Art.
Good night, and with regard to this last hour, all I can say is good luck to us all.
I'm Art Bell.
...
Happy and I'm smiling walking miles to drink your water you know I'd love to love you
the smell of touch is something inside that I need so much The sight of the touch, or the scent of the sand, or the strength of an oak that weaves deep in the ground.
The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up from tarmac to the sun again.
Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing?
To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing?
To have all these things in our memory and soul?
We've got all these things in our memory so...
And they use them to tell us to...
FIGHT!
Fight!
Fight like she's strong!
Take this place, I'll catch you swift!
Oh, man.
Wanna take a ride?
Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
First time callers may reach Art at area code 775-727-1222.
East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
First time callers may reach out at area code 775-727-1222.
Or call the wildcard line at 775-727-1295.
To talk with Art on the toll free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
Well, good morning everybody.
It is indeed coming up in a moment, Bruce Moen.
And we're going to be looking at the afterlife and proof of the afterlife.
Bruce Mullen is a self-described ordinary guy.
And I'll tell you what, before I get into that, let me address a couple of things.
Number one, it was Ed Dames, not Richard Hoagland, who said that we have the ability to stop a nuclear war, and the Indian-Pakistan should begin in the lift phase, launch phase.
My brain cells.
Going, going, gone.
From Austin, Texas, Brian.
Just clean this up, says, hi Art, I'm 29 year old.
This is on the computer.
Never, uh, and have never experienced any political situation like the world is in right now.
Is there anything you can compare it to?
Uh, matter of fact, uh, Brian, yes there is.
I, I was in the, uh, Air Force and, uh, I was at, uh, Amarillo Air Force Base, which now no longer exists in the panhandle of Texas.
I went there after basic and, uh, was working in a hospital And, uh, went through the Cuban Missile Crisis there, and I, I was a guy who got to answer the red phone.
This red phone would ring.
I mean, it never rang, but in this case it rang, and I picked it up, and it was a DEFCON, uh, notification.
We raised our DEFCON level, and believe me, for those who lived through it, the Cuban Missile Crisis The Cuban Missile Crisis was more of a political situation, in my estimation, than we have now in India and Pakistan, in that, had it gone wrong, of course, it would have meant an all-out nuclear war with the Soviet Union at that moment, and we really were headed that way.
As close as India and Pakistan are right now, believe me, the US and the Soviets were right there.
I mean, their ships were coming I'm coming and coming and we put up the blockade and their ships stopped and uh everybody here was hanging you know by a nail on what was going to happen and we thought there was better than even odds that we were about to go into an all-out nuclear war you know and or everything kind of war so um burned into my older memory than yours uh brian is believe me that
You pick up that red phone and you, uh, you hear a DEFCON notification on a SAC base and, uh, you got to B-52s taken off every 11 seconds.
Yeah, so there was that.
Uh, Brian.
Now, uh, Bruce Mullen.
Bruce Mullen is a self-described regular guy, ordinary guy.
Driven by intense curiosity since early childhood, To know if we humans continue to exist after death.
Boy, me too.
He has never had a near-death experience, doesn't claim any special psychic gift or talent, unusual for this show, that would allow him to explore our afterlife any better than you can.
And yet, he claims his curiosity led to knowing that we all continue to exist after death indeed, and that Our afterlife can be described, Mullen, as a mechanical engineer.
Now, how's that?
Where do you get from mechanical engineer to this?
My profession who began actively exploring our afterlife after learning the basic techniques taught in the Monroe Institute's Lifeline program in 1992.
Over the next three and a half years, Mullen continued to use those techniques in an attempt to prove to himself that the afterlife exists.
All the while feeling certain he was making up any evidence that he gathered as part of some fabricated, grand, self-deceptive hoax.
Then something happened, and it convinced him that the afterlife is indeed real.
During a contact with the deceased father of a friend, Moen brought back information verified as accurate.
But he had no other way of knowing except through contact with the deceased man.
That's a subject we'll take up.
Since then, Moen has developed a system of simple techniques and exercises that he teaches in a two-day workshop that anyone can use to explore our afterlife and prove to themselves, through their own direct experiences, that it is real.
And so we will have him tonight.
Though we don't have a two-day workshop.
But tonight, we'll make him take you through that.
So if you want to try and explore the afterlife's reality, well then keep on listening tonight, because that's where
we're going.
Alright.
Gee, I guess I ought to take a picture of this, huh?
The Father's Day is coming on June 16th.
And we've got a suggestion for a gift.
I mean, you know, fathers, they get tired of the same old stuff, right?
Who wants another tie?
But how about a CC Expedition 14 LED flashlight?
One that will go, as a matter of fact, you give it to your father and it'll still be going when your father's gone and you can use it.
That's a terrible way to think about that, huh?
Regular price is $119.95.
I mean, this is a serious, a very, very serious flashlight.
14 LEDs.
And so we're going to put it on sale for $79.95.
That means $40 off this week only.
It's one of the brightest LED flashlights made in the world today.
The bulbs will never burn out.
Flashlight will shine at full brightness.
We're talking very, very, very serious brightness for over 20 hours on the same batteries you'd put in any other flashlight.
They're waterproof, shockproof.
They're made here in the USA.
You can turn them on underwater.
I mean, they're astounding.
And so, we think Father's Day or graduation gift or whatever, we put them on sale.
So there's a big monster, the monster, $79.95, saving $40 this week only, if you call Seacrane Company in the morning at 1-800-522-8863.
That's 1-800-522-8863, or on the web at ccradio.com.
Now, how would you like to feel 10 years younger in 10 weeks?
1-800-522-8863.
That's 1-800-522-8863, or on the web at ccradio.com.
Now, how would you like to feel 10 years younger in 10 weeks?
Well, as a general proposition, that sounds pretty good, right?
Although you can't know what it feels like, because nobody gets younger.
At least that's the way it was.
It used to be that way, there was no way.
Now, there is anti-aging science.
And anti-aging science has come up with HGH, Human Growth Hormone, a factor which first will cause you to begin to feel young, and then will cause you to begin to look young, and in fact, actually get younger, have better vision, better memory, Had I been taking it, I'd have been able to certainly remember that it was Ed Dames, not Richard Hoagland.
So I guess I should try a little myself, shouldn't I?
It's a natural formula.
This is not the shot that you get in the stomach.
It will cause your own body to produce more of your own good, safe HGH, and the effects are astounding.
They're measurable.
They're documentable cholesterol levels.
The good cholesterol will rise, the bad cholesterol will fall.
Your vision, your memory, your internal organs.
Everything after about... it's a regimen.
You know, you've got to stay on it.
And it's about $33 a month if you want to try it.
We'll include a $20 value book explaining what's going on with you as you take it.
So, are you adventuresome?
Would you like to try it?
If so, call Great American Products.
At 1-800-557-4627.
You can call anytime, including right now.
1-800-557-4627.
Ask about Ultimate HGH.
Comes now Bruce Moen.
Bruce, welcome to the program.
Good evening, Art.
Nice to be here.
1-800-557-4627.
Ask about Ultimate HGH.
Comes now Bruce Mowen.
Bruce, welcome to the program.
Good evening, Art.
Nice to be here.
It's good to have you.
This is a subject that, for me, and I think for almost everybody everywhere of every persuasion,
is really important.
And that is whether we continue our existence after physical death or not.
Because physical death comes really quickly.
I mean we're only here for a very short period of time indeed.
Right?
I would completely agree with that.
So how did you get interested?
I guess I would say my interest began as a child.
As a five or six year old, I used to wander around wondering at questions that I later call my three great questions and they are, where was I before I was here?
That's a good one.
And what am I supposed to do while I'm here?
That's a good one too.
And where do I go when I leave here?
That's a great one.
Well, that's definitely the third of my childhood three great questions.
Oh, they are good.
Where were you before you were here?
That one is answered by many guests that I've had on who claim that we are incarnated again and again and again.
Well, in fact, about the same time in my childhood I had a recurring daydream that later, probably
in my mid-twenties, I began to wonder about.
The elements of this recurring daydream was the sort of thing that a five or six year
old boy would have no knowledge of.
In my mid-twenties I began to wonder just how it was possible that that happened.
I read a stack of books and discovered that other people talked about this thing called
reincarnation.
I would have to say that for me reincarnation became part of my truth.
Is it still part of your truth?
Yes.
I would say that with the explorations I've done since then, it's gotten a little trickier
to talk about, but I would continue to agree that I've come to this physical world more
Are you saying then that some of your research that we're going to discuss tonight would perhaps argue in some way with the concept of reincarnation?
Well, if it argued, it would argue for it as opposed to against it.
Okay.
All right.
It seems as logical as any other.
With regard to what we're supposed to do while we're here, beats the hell out of me.
I think that we're probably supposed to do the best we can and cope.
You know, life doesn't give you much else.
What do you think?
Well, I guess I would say that after I answered my first great question, believing that reincarnation was true, I began to focus on that second one.
What am I supposed to do while I'm here?
I would submit that there's no twenty-something year old person that has a prayer of answering that, but since that time, primarily as a result of exploring this afterlife and beyond there, I would say that That there are primarily two purposes and the first one I would say is that, well, I'll cut it down to one.
That we as human beings exist for the purpose of learning to experience and express unconditional love to an ever greater degree.
That in my opinion, that's the purpose of humankind.
Unconditional love?
That's a really strong statement.
That means, for example, The people that blew up our buildings in New York and hit the Pentagon and all the rest of it.
We should unconditionally love them.
Is that right?
Well, I guess what I would say is that you can learn how to love unconditionally both by experiencing unconditional love and by experiencing the lack of it.
You didn't answer my question.
So answer it.
Should we love those people?
Yes.
Bull.
We should kill those people, Steve.
Bruce, we should kill those people.
Well, that may be the most unconditionally loving thing we can do.
Can you believe that?
Yeah.
Yeah, I can believe that.
I'd love to see them killed.
I'd certainly like to understand more about why they did it.
I don't care.
They did it because they want us dead.
So I want them dead, and so I'm not certain.
I'm sure, you know what, I really think that what you're talking about is something to strive for, you know, this unconditional love thing.
Yes.
But it ain't easy.
Yeah, it ain't easy.
Yeah, that's right.
I can't think of any better way to put it.
And I certainly couldn't practice it with regard to what those people did.
And I just gave you a very extreme example, I know, and I really put you in a corner there, but that is, I mean, ultimately, when you say unconditional, you provoke that kind of a question, right?
Yes, you do.
Yes, you do.
So can you, are you there?
Yes, I am.
You can honestly say, That you unconditionally love all people, including the people that blew up the buildings and killed people?
No, I wouldn't say that.
I wouldn't say that.
I have not learned to unconditionally love everything.
Oh, I thought you had.
I'm sorry.
No, in fact, my first reaction was a little extreme.
My first reaction was, if we're going to make the world safe for us, we need to kill everybody else.
I mean, that was certainly my first reaction to the Well, everybody else might be pushing it a little.
Yeah.
Alright, well, we're really here to discuss the afterlife, and you apparently have become convinced, or stop me if I'm wrong, through what you've done that there is an afterlife.
Is that accurate or not?
That's accurate.
That is accurate.
I have absolutely no doubt at this point in my life.
No doubt.
Are you a big-time religious person?
No.
No?
No, I'm not.
At least not in any organized religion way.
I was raised in a church, although I didn't see the inside of one until I was about 13.
What kind?
A Lutheran church.
Oh, me too.
Yeah?
Yeah.
Yeah, I was raised as a Lutheran, but you know, somewhere in my teens I had questions and the answers they had were just a little strange.
I know, I ran into the same problem.
So now I'm an exiled Lutheran.
So you're not religious particularly.
You're certainly not a fundamentalist religious person.
You just really want to know about the afterlife.
Yeah, that was certainly my purpose in exploring it.
As one of those critical-minded engineer types, it would be pretty hard to swallow most of what most religions teach.
Right.
Well, I'm into a lot of that, too.
I mean, I've been in electronics all my life, since I was a child.
And there are specific answers to specific questions and specific things that you can do and everything follows good, solid scientific logic.
And so how does an engineer who practices the same sort of thing approach trying to prove the afterlife?
How do you do that?
How do you make that?
From an engineering point of view, I mean, you're into I do A and B occurs, right?
Right.
I'm sorry, so how do you go at it?
Well, I guess I would say first of all that being an engineer in regarding to exploring our afterlife, as an engineer I had to approach it from a critical thinking style, a style of an engineer that says, I have to have hard physical evidence or there's no way I can believe this.
Right.
And so my basic approach Was to try to find a way to get evidence of the existence of this afterlife that could somehow be verified physically.
Right.
And my approach to that was to learn how to find and communicate with deceased people through the Lifeline program at the Monroe Institute, and we can talk more details about that after a bit, but to learn to find a way to communicate with people who were deceased.
Try to gather information from them.
I would have no other way of knowing except by communication with them and then find a person in the physical world who knew the deceased who could either verify or refute the information that I gathered.
So that was my basic approach.
Communicate with a dead person.
Communicate with the dead.
That's good.
Through what means Bruce?
Well, in the beginning it was, well I can't say the beginning, but in my early approach to it, it was using techniques that were taught, as you mentioned in the introduction, at a place called the Monroe Institute and in a program called Lifeline.
Well, I know about the Monroe Institute.
I interviewed Mr. Monroe before he passed.
Fascinating, fascinating man!
Isn't he?
I was going to say, wasn't he?
Even in the present tense, huh?
Yeah.
You're that sure?
Well, it's very difficult for me to not be sure.
The evidence has been, for me... Too strong?
Repetitive and overwhelming.
So, the basic approach was that in the Lifeline program that Monroe founded and the program that he developed, Uh, one... It was based on the premise that when people die, sometimes they get stuck.
A physically living person could learn how to contact a person who had become stuck after
death and provide the assistance that person might need to move out of being stuck to a
better place.
Let's define stuck.
First of all, is it possible to communicate with people truly on the other side, people
who are not stuck, people who are on the other side already?
In my experience, yes.
Yes, the answer is yes.
And so, but it's easier to communicate with somebody who is, your word, stuck?
I wouldn't say it's easier.
I would just say that it's, um, that this process called retrieval that deals with people who are stuck was sort of the training wheels on the bicycle I used to ride around this afterlife and explore.
Why?
In other words, why, when you say stuck, it conjures up in my mind visions of Sure.
Precisely.
In fact, I would say that those are a couple of classic reasons why people get stuck.
Let me talk a little bit about what it means to be stuck, just for a moment.
some reason or another is attached to some material thing or was killed just quickly,
they didn't know that they're dead or something like that.
Precisely.
In fact, I would say that those are a couple of classic reasons why people get stuck.
Let me talk a little bit about what it means to be stuck just for a moment.
Sometimes through the circumstances of death, for example, someone who's killed very quickly
and unexpectedly, since things don't seem to change much for them, they may be a little
confused as to what happened.
For example, in a workshop in New Hampshire, one of the people who was attending, a participant In her communication with a deceased person encountered a woman who had been waiting for a bus while she was still physically alive and standing with her back to traffic talking to someone absentmindedly stepped back not realizing how close she was to the curb and when she fell off the curb she was hit by a car and killed instantly.
She jumped back up onto the sidewalk Not realizing she had been killed and attempted to continue
to talk to the person who she'd been talking to before But now no longer see her or hear her Wow and the woman who
was killed so quickly many years later
Was still in a reality in which she was alone and isolated and still waiting for a bus
This is like right out of Mommy, I See Dead People, huh?
Right?
Well, as a matter of fact, that movie, I would say, had some very accurate things to say about stuck people, yes.
Alright, uh, stay right there, yeah, stuck people.
It really did.
Didn't it?
All right, my guest is Bruce Lohan, and we are obviously discussing whether or not there is any real afterlife.
He obviously believes there certainly is.
It'd be interesting to find out how he knows that this occurred to that woman, that she popped back up after being hit by the bus and continued the conversation.
I'm Art Bell.
This is Coast.
I'm going to be stepping aside, but you don't speak to any faces.
Coming in on...
On a velvet morning when I'm straight I'm gonna open up your gate
And maybe tell you about Phaedra And how she gave me life
And how she made it in This velvet morning when I'm straight
Flowers growing on my hair Drowning flies and baffled ears
Run from us very much Look at us, but do not touch
Phaedra is my name you
To recharge Bell in the Kingdom of Nigh, from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
east of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033. First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222
or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295. To reach out on the toll free international
line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
Good morning, everybody.
Bruce Moen is my guest.
We're discussing the afterlife, and he's proven to himself that it's real, and before the program is over, perhaps he can prove it to all of us.
Robert in Kaiser, Oregon along with a lot of other people saying that the signal on KEX in Portland is popping in and out and I'm getting a lot of reports like that.
So if it'll help the people in Portland, that's the only place we're getting those reports from right now.
So they're probably having a localized problem in the Portland area at KEX.
I don't help them knowing that it's not widespread.
They can begin looking locally.
To me, it's always amazing the signal gets anywhere at all.
off you start here in a little prompt Nevada and you go up to a geosynchronous
satellite 22,500 miles up and then you go back down again 22,500 miles to
Oregon then you go back up 22,500 miles to another satellite and then you go
back down 22,500 miles to a ground station in New Jersey Then you go back up 22,500 miles to a seaband satellite.
Then you go down 22,500 miles to the various radio stations that then have a lot of electronic equipment that reproduce my signals.
So you know, it's amazing enough that it gets from here to there to you at all, ever.
Much less, most of the time.
So, stuff happens.
Bruce Moen, we'll be right back.
Once again, Bruce Moen.
Bruce, you described a woman hit by a bus who got up, I mean, killed instantly, got up and resumed a conversation she was having on the sidewalk.
That's an example of a person who is stuck.
Now, first of all, I guess, number one, I would ask you, how could you know How can you know that's true, or why do you believe that is a true story?
To really know whether or not it's true, the person who made contact with that deceased woman would have had to have gathered some information from her that could be verified by someone who knew the deceased woman.
And in that particular case, this was the experience of someone in my workshop, in that particular case it did not happen.
I have some examples from my own experience in which those kinds of things did happen.
Probably within about two years into trying to prove this to myself, a person asked me to check on her grandmother.
Her grandmother had died about nine months before our conversation.
Asked me to check on her grandmother and using these techniques that I learned in the Monroe Institute's Lifeline Program, I made contact with a woman and it was my impression that this grandmother was sitting in a wooden chair in a kitchen, that she hadn't had two thoughts that you could have said were serial in a very long time, very confused.
My impression was that this woman had Alzheimer's.
It was that sort of confusion in her face.
And during the interaction with this woman, she was approached by two other non-physical people, one of whom she looked at and said, Maggie, Maggie, what are you doing here?
Well, it turned out the deceased woman's mother's name was Margaret, and that everyone, including the deceased woman, called her Maggie.
There was one little bit of evidence, and one that at the time I explained away as just an interesting coincidence. I didn't feel that really
proved it to myself. But over a period of time, there was eventually an experience that
did prove it to me.
Let's have it. A friend of mine's father was walking across the parking lot at a grocery store in the mountains here in
Colorado and was hit by a pickup truck on a Friday afternoon run over and died
after midnight Sunday, early Monday morning. My friend called and said, Would you please check
on my dad, see what's going on with him?
And when I used the techniques and made contact with him, I got some information that was verified.
For example, to my perception, there was another woman there with him in his early afterlife experience who was in her maybe thirties, but his mother And this made no sense to me as the man was about 87.
It turned out that the man's mother had died when he was 11.
She came into the scene appearing as if she would have at the age she died.
But the real clincher for me was that in my communication with him, he was just adamant that I say the word punky.
I was actually told that I was a pumpkin but it was close enough. I said the word punky
to his daughter and I assumed that when he said it to me my immediate reaction was oh,
he is giving me a pet name for her. This is what he called her when she was a little girl.
When I relayed the information to his daughter she said, well no it's a pet name but it's
not what he called me. She said from the time I arrived at the hospital after his accident
until he died every time he was conscious he made me promise I would take care of his
little dog Punky if he died.
Oh my God.
Really?
Yeah.
And you had no way of knowing about this little dog?
I never knew the man when he was alive.
I had no idea he had a dog.
Yeah, that's pretty convincing.
Well, that was the one that finally, as they say, the straw that broke the camel's back.
Alright, I want to understand, and I think the audience would love to understand too, the techniques you're using.
Boil it down, make it simple, see if anybody else can do it.
The techniques that you learned to communicate with the dead.
Let's begin there.
How do you do that?
Well, the way I do that now, I've kind of developed my own system for that, but I would say that one of the most important aspects to understand is that the way we perceive these deceased people and the way we perceive our communication with them is to use our imagination as the means of perceiving.
There's a story that claims that someone once told St.
Joan of Arc, Joan, these voices you hear are just in your imagination.
To which she supposedly replied, well of course, that's where you hear them.
Yeah, that's a good point.
At least that was her reply.
Alright, so give it to me straight.
I mean, what state do you go in?
How do you get yourself in a place where you're able to begin this communication?
Whether it's your imagination or you know a voice in your head or whatever it is that allows you to communicate with
that What state do you get in to achieve that?
Actually, it's it's it's so simple art. The hardest thing to do is believe you're doing it. Well, you know to begin
to begin It's just a state of relaxation
okay, I use a Breathing technique just to help a person relax, right and
from that point If you were a first-timer I would suggest that you do
something like this So, I'm going to go ahead and close out the call.
Say, for example, you wanted to communicate with a grandfather you never met.
He died before you were born.
Alright.
I would suggest that you first close your eyes and relax.
Right.
And then I would suggest that you begin to imagine a scene that you and your grandfather are going to be in, which essentially you pretend Maybe you pretend that you're sitting on the back porch, it's a hot muggy day, the grass needs to be cut, you're going to have this imaginary conversation with your grandfather, and it's such a hot day you're going to give him a cold beer.
So it's set and setting?
Yes, set and setting.
And that you use your imagination essentially to create that scene within your mind's eye, if you will.
Sure, I understand.
Imagine or pretend that your grandfather sits down next to you and begin what in the beginning is a completely and entirely fabricated fantasy conversation with this grandfather.
Or you might say, you know, hi, Gramps, my name is Art.
You know, you died before I was born.
Right.
You make this conversation up.
Right.
And you continue with this process until something unexpected happens.
For example, in this imaginary conversation, suppose... You mean something that you are not intentionally, in this relaxed state, imagining, all of a sudden, something that you weren't imagining occurs?
Yes.
For example, maybe grandfather says, hey, you know, when I was a younger man, I was a bank robber.
That would do it.
And you might stop and think, now I know I'm pretending this conversation, but I don't remember making that part up.
Yeah, I didn't say that part to myself.
And when something unexpected like that happens, I would say, play along with it.
Act as if Grandfather said this.
You might say, well really, Gramps, what's the last bank you robbed?
And play along in this conversation.
All right, at this juncture, that's really interesting stuff, Bruce.
That really is interesting, I'll give you that.
Now, a lot of people are going to say, brother, you don't know what you're letting yourself in for.
When you put yourself in that state and you invite the dead to have a conversation with you, you are opening a door through which something might come that you will not be happy with.
Many people will say that.
How do you answer that?
I would say that in the ten years I've been doing this, I've certainly encountered dead people, or perhaps a better way of saying it is non-physical people, that if I met them on the street here, I'd cross the street to avoid them.
Well, that's close.
In other words, you don't always get what you ask for.
Or you may ask to contact somebody and not realize this person is very strange.
But let me also say that one of the techniques I teach deals exactly with this particular situation.
Okay.
And it has to do with the power of the energy of love.
I would suggest, as I teach it in my workshop, I would suggest that whenever someone encounters anything that causes them to feel fear, That that fear is either my own fear, my own beliefs.
For example, maybe I believe in banshees.
Maybe I'm Irish descent and I believe that there are banshees and I believe that when I die, one's going to come and get me.
It's possible that if I, as a physical person, explore non-physically, I may encounter a banshee.
And that banshee may actually be fabricated out of my own fear.
Thoughts can be things.
Monster for me, Ed.
Yes, and my suggestion is that in my experience and exploration, I found that there's something called the law of love and fear that says love and fear cannot coexist.
If I encounter something that causes me to feel fear, if I do something to cause myself to feel love, I don't mean just think about it, I mean feel it.
and project that love energy to whatever it is that's causing me to feel fear, one of two things will happen.
If it's my own fear taking form, it'll just disappear and I've seen this happen over and over.
The other possibility is that my own fear is sort of making a mask over something that's really there.
In which case the mask disappears and I see what's really there.
The other possibility is I'm dealing with someone who's just not a very nice person who's doing everything they can to cause me to feel fear.
Love and fear cannot be in the same place at the same time.
So then you affirm that once that door is open you might get something you're not ready for?
Yes, and I would say that one's beliefs can really play into this.
Part of my own afterlife exploration And what I've done with that is to work with people who might be described as schizophrenic.
People who hear voices.
People, and in some cases, more than just hear voices, are dealing with exactly the sort of thing you're talking about.
That they are essentially in contact with what they perceive to be a demon.
Right, well, why shouldn't I imagine that the people Voluntarily, or perhaps involuntarily, got into the state you're talking about right now, and something got invited in, and now they're going to spend the rest of their life in a mental hospital.
Well, if they deal with the standard psychiatric methods of treating it, that unfortunately may happen.
I see.
So, proceed with caution.
Is that a fair statement?
Yes, and... Suppose I were to tell you I think that I believe you that this can be done, but that
I don't particularly want to talk to the dead.
I have enough trouble with the living, frankly, and I'm not so sure that I actually want to talk to the dead,
although I'm driven to try and understand if it's real or not, like everybody is.
So that might drive me to it, but I'm not compelled to talk to the dead.
Yes, and if those were your feelings, I certainly wouldn't push the issue, because it may be that, see, our thoughts are things within these non-physical realities like our afterlife, and someone who holds beliefs that there are demons out there waiting for me may encounter them and that can cause some serious
difficulty even if they're only imagined demons and so I certainly wouldn't push it.
Hmm.
Nevertheless, you have done these explorations.
I might not, but you have and so you would have presumably some answers for us.
For example, Um, not everybody gets stuck.
One would imagine the majority of the people don't get stuck.
You might know from your work where a person goes when they die.
If they don't get stuck, where do they go?
Is there heaven as you know as we understand it and hell as we understand it from the preachers you know the fiery pit of sewage or whatever it is?
Is there a place like that?
Well I would say that I've explored a number of heavens and a number of hells.
I guess First, let me say, yeah, I completely agree.
Not everyone gets stuck, and I certainly don't want to have listeners think that I'm saying they do.
I think in the normal, natural process of dying, if things are allowed to go as they should, a person doesn't get stuck.
Right, I understand that.
So my question is, where do they go?
I would classify three specific areas in our afterlife that people go.
I'll use the labels that Robert Monroe used from his out-of-body explorations, not the way I do it, but his labels.
He labeled one area, something called Focus 23.
He was very generic in his labels.
This afterlife area is an area where people are stuck.
These are people who have physically died, and through their expectations, their individual beliefs, the circumstances of their death, they've gotten stuck In an isolated, self-created reality, you could say trapped in their own dream.
The second major area I would describe in our afterlife is one that Monroe called the belief system territories.
These are realities created by group beliefs.
The belief system territories, like Catholic beliefs for example?
Sure, or for example, I mean you and I were both Lutherans at least at one point, and The Lutheran Church... I'm a fallen Lutheran.
Yeah, I'm a past one, I guess.
You know my only disappointment with the Lutheran Church?
This guy named Martin Luther couldn't quite swallow all the things he was told to believe, and so he decided to try to go out and find the truth for himself.
And my only disappointment in the church I was raised in is that it Tells its followers to believe what Luther found instead of do what he did.
Well, then you're not a lot different than Luther yourself, Bruce.
Now listen, hold on.
We're at the top of the hour.
Unconditional love, huh?
We'll be right back.
Yeah!
What is good for?
Absolutely nothing!
We'll be right back, probably.
Huh!
Yeah!
What is good for?
Absolutely nothing!
Hell yeah, y'all!
Huh!
Look out!
What is good for?
Absolutely nothing!
me.
This is Bad House Music Videos Lies, Put Like Subscribe My weakness can't move, and the moon has gone.
Where am I to go now that I've come so far?
Hell's my preference, this is why I'm here now.
This is the madhouse, this is where I belong.
My weakness can't move, and the moon has gone.
Be my freedom, my freedom, be my moon, my moon and star And I know that I'm going to wash you young, girl
When the moon is born You young girl
When the moon is born Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from West of the Rockies
at 1-800-9-4 East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
east of the Rockies 1-800-825-5033. First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295. To reach out on the toll free international
line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
That always brings me back to reality when a bullet hits a boat.
Morning, everybody.
My guest is Bruce Mullen, and we're talking about whether or not there's an afterlife, where you go when you die.
And he's just told you how you can actually talk to the dead if you so desire.
Visibly, it seems to well down to putting yourself into a state of relaxation.
There are various methods of doing that.
Breathing exercises, you can use those.
Somebody taught me, because I've always had trouble sleeping, how to put myself in a relaxed state by, as you're lying in bed all tense and unable to sleep, you start with your finger and you relax your finger intentionally.
Just make it relax.
And then your hand.
and then your arm and then your chest and then your other hand your arm your chest your legs you
force them to relax and before you know it you did it and you're asleep somewhere in the process
before you've relaxed your entire body you're going to fall asleep so that's a relaxation
technique as well and so you get into this relaxation technique however you put yourself
there that's what it boils down to and then you begin to use your imagination and set up a scenario
where for example you are uh sitting down next to your uh dead grandfather in a certain setting of
your choice you know on a riverbed whatever on a bridge who cares wherever and then you begin
begin a fantasy conversation with this person and you wait for the unexpected unintended consequences
is.
He says something to you that didn't come from your imagination, and that begins the process, and you're now talking with the dead.
So I want to obviously know a little of the nature of where we go when we die, and that's kind of where we're going here in a moment.
When any of you out there want to give this a try, you're welcome to try it at home,
but beware of the possible consequences.
Because, of course, as Bruce said, you never quite exactly know who's coming through the door
once you get it open.
Once again, Bruce Mullen, we were talking about where you go when you die.
And if you don't get stuck, something we're going to come back to.
You were describing the various places where you might go.
One of them would be the place of your expectation, or maybe that's all it would be, the place of your expectation.
Bruce?
Yeah.
So, is that essentially what it boils down to?
Well, we were talking about this place called the belief system territory.
That's right.
And that would be your expectation.
If you're a Catholic, you would think that you're going to go and, you know, your faith is going to be fulfilled, right?
Yes, and I would say that any belief held by a group such as a religion that describes an afterlife environment like a heaven... Right.
Actually creates a reality that is that heaven and that people who hold the set of beliefs that that reality was created around at death may be attracted into it.
So, you know, good Lutherans may be attracted into Lutheran heaven and that those places are populated exclusively by those who share that belief.
So there are no Catholics in Lutheran heaven.
What about bad Lutherans?
Where do they go?
Well, Lutherans as other religions preach about a place they call hell.
And I would say, it's my opinion from my exploration so far, that such a reality is created by that group's belief.
and a bad Lutheran who believes that's where they're going to go may be attracted in there.
I want to emphasize that not all of them go there.
All right then. So you're basically, it boils down to you go where you think you're going to go,
what you believe. Yes, in many cases, certainly not all.
Certainly not all?
Certainly not all.
Well, I mean the people who knocked our buildings down with airplanes think they're going to place with 72 virgins or something or another.
Mm-hmm.
You think probably they do?
Well, it's possible.
It's also possible that the real belief system that they are involved with, one in which such horrific acts of terrorism are part of their belief system.
But see, to them, it's terrific acts of heroism.
To them.
Yes, and they may end up in a place where they're living exclusively with others who hold exactly the same beliefs
and perpetrate such acts on everyone else in that belief system.
So then they're with their buds, which means there'd be hundreds of virgins around.
Or there may be...
At least for a short time.
Or there may be no virgins.
There may be only terrorists like themselves who are bent on these heroic acts of horrific terrorism and perpetrating them on the other members of that belief system territory.
That would be more like hell.
Yeah.
It would be more like a place called Thief's Hell that I explored using a technique called Pardon Exploring.
We'll talk more about the technique later.
The description is in my fourth book, Voyage to Curiosity's Father, but in the exploration
that a friend of mine and I did of this place, it turned out that being a thief is really
a system of beliefs.
We aren't talking about someone who just steals occasionally, we are talking about a real
hardcore thief.
In an exploration a friend of mine did of Thief's Hell, what we found was that people
who hold that belief system, that belief system of a thief, may be attracted into a place
that is populated entirely by thieves, who spend their time stealing from everyone else
in that hell and being stolen from by everyone else in that hell.
Wow.
As you have spoken to people in heaven or in the place they have created for themselves that they think is heaven, have you also spoken to people in the place they have created for themselves their hell?
Yes.
You have?
Yes.
And give me an example of what kind of A conversation you had.
I'd be very curious.
Well, as a matter of fact, we can use the example of Pete's Hell.
The dead guy that I interviewed was someone who had been there and had escaped, or had gotten out.
He was offered what's called a backdoor out of Hell.
Really?
Yes.
He described that after his death, when he first arrived, He arrived in a place that to him looked just as real as our physical world does to us, in an area of that belief system territory that was probably very much like an inner city just thick with thieves, and that he spent his time doing his best not to be stolen from and stealing from everyone he could.
Over a period of time, I formed a relationship with a woman who was also there, and the two of them sort of worked various cons together.
Really?
Really?
Yeah.
So, in other words... This is really interesting.
There is no traditional heaven, and no traditional hell.
Oh, those certainly exist there also.
Oh, they do?
Oh, yes.
There are many, many of these belief system territories.
Any belief system held by a group can create a reality in this area of our afterlife we're talking about, this second area.
And could your sentence to hell, let's say thieves hell, be eternal?
Could it be eternal?
Yeah, well, in the face of the conversation we had about reincarnation, it's an obvious question.
In my experience, there is one situation in which that is possible, but I would say that it is extremely rare.
Rare.
That it's more typical, at least from the information I got from this fellow I interviewed, it's more typical that his life in thief's hell He eventually began to see the futility of it all, that no matter how much he stole, it was always stolen from him, and he began to, I would say, lose some of that belief system.
And at that point, the story he told was that he and the woman had eventually moved sort of to the countryside in this hell, not the inner city.
And there was a knock at the door one night, and when he opened the door, here stands a man that he immediately realizes is a master thief who's running a game on him called Innocent Sucker.
Oh?
The man at the door is obviously a master thief who's trying to lull him into a false sense of security by acting as a bumbling thief.
And he said, I realized immediately this was the Innocent Sucker Con, so I began to run the Counter-Innocent Sucker Con, in which you intend to, uh, you pretend to be taken in.
He said the way this, uh, con works is the fellow who's running Innocent Sucker is pretending to be a pretty low-level bumbling thief, only to, uh, to scope out your stuff, to determine what your most precious thing is, and he fully intends to come back some night and steal it.
Right.
He said if it's run perfectly you pretend to be taken in and you find out where he lives and scope out his stuff and when you know that tonight's the night he's coming to your place to steal your most precious thing, you go to his place and you steal his and you hope it's something big and heavy like a candlestick.
Because you're then sitting in your own home, waiting for this fellow to come in, and when he comes in, you flip on the lights and reveal that you know he's playing innocent sucker.
You said then you beat him senseless with a candlestick, drag him out in the street, and leave him there so other thieves know to leave you alone.
Well, but how do you kill someone who's already dead?
Well, suffice it to say, it happens.
Of course, they pop right back up again.
But a little more with this story, because I don't know.
Go right ahead.
He decided to run counter-innocence sucker, and when the day came that he knew he was going to have to go through with it, he again realized the futility of where he was living and what he was doing, and decided he wasn't going to go through with it.
He sat in his home waiting for the person to come in, and when the person broke into the house, he snapped on the lights and revealed that he knew that he was playing innocent sucker, and he said, look, there's my most precious thing.
Just take it and get out.
And he said the next thing that happened was like somebody sort of spit him out of somewhere, and he found himself floating in complete blackness.
Oh?
And then began, he could see a little light beginning to approach, and as the light got closer, he realized that light was the one who ran the con on him.
And that person approached him and said, hey look, here's the situation.
You were stuck in thieves' hell, and I am a helper, and I By monitoring your activities, I determined that you had begun to lose some of your beliefs about being a thief.
And when you made the choice not to go through with it, since your beliefs no longer matched with thieves hell, you were spit out of the place.
So where is he now?
I'm glad you asked, Art.
Because the fellow who encountered him said, ìYou have some choices to make.î He said, ìYou can choose to go back into your hell if you like.î He said, ìYou can choose to incarnate again in physical reality if you like, or you can choose to come and work at this place that I work called the Rehabilitation Center in Focus 27, the third major area of our afterlife,î which is the choice he made.
It turned out that this Focus 27 place has something called a Rehabilitation Center.
This is a place where people who have either through their own efforts escaped their hell or have been offered a back door out of hell as I've just described by a helper.
A place where these people go and learn how to become helpers, learn how to become someone who can go back into a hell.
So he became who met him?
He became, uh, okay.
Yes.
And now it's interesting because you see, most people who believe in hell think that
when you go there, whatever it is, it's eternal.
And most people believe that someone else sentences you there as a punishment.
You're right.
And my explorations so far indicate that it's more our own beliefs and lifestyle that draws
into a place that resonates with our beliefs and lifestyle.
Well, then let's do a flip on this.
If you can get a backdoor out of hell and you can get bumped up the ladder a little bit, then it seems to me, let's look at the opposite and what we call heaven.
Sure.
Or the heavens that people create.
Could it be that you get up there and you somehow screw up and drop through a backdoor that sends you straight down?
Well, as a matter of fact, in another of these partnered exploration sessions that a friend of mine and I did, we asked that very question, and I encountered and communicated with a man who claimed that he had been in what he called a hollow heaven, not the real one.
He explained that he had been a minister in a very small fundamentalist Christian sect.
He's had fewer than 10,000 people physically living now in it.
And that all of his life he had preached about this heaven that we go to.
And then when he arrived, it was just as he expected.
He got to meet the old venerated preachers of the line.
And one of the beliefs that he had preached about was that when you went to heaven, you had to continue to obey all the rules that you had been taught while you were physically alive, including you had to go to church on Sabbath.
And since he'd been in ministry, he was given a church.
And he explained that things were fine, except he had one couple in the church that was a problem.
It was a couple who were in his congregation, who were living in the same home, but were not married.
And of course, this was against the rules.
Especially in heaven.
Oh, especially in heaven.
Especially in this heaven.
Because the rules said that if you weren't married, you had to live in separate homes.
And if you lived in the same home, you had to get married.
He said, I went to these people, this couple's house, many times to counsel them.
To try to get them to change their ways because I knew if I didn't I was going to have to perform the casting out
ritual If they continue to break the rules and and wouldn't abide
by the rules I was going to have to as as I had taught as a minister
Cast them into outer darkness Any losses you can be thrown out of heaven then
That heaven you can.
Alright, alright.
Hold it right there.
We've got a break here at the bottom of the hour.
This is an interesting place to sort of hang people up.
And on the other side, I suppose there is no time?
Not as we know it anyway.
Hundreds or thousands of years in a second here on Earth.
I'm Art Bell and this is Coast.
I'm Art Bell and this is Coast.
Time, time, time, leave us to come of need.
Go.
Leave us to come of need.
Once upon a time, once when you were mine.
I remember your smiles, reflected in your eyes.
I wonder where you are, I wonder if you think of me.
Once upon a time, in your wildest dreams.
To recharge Bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222, or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
To reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
Perhaps some night we'll do a whole show on your wildest dreams.
It's a very interesting topic and it's actually kind of a parallel topic in a way to what we're doing right now.
My guest is Bruce Mullen and we're talking about the afterlife.
He's told you how you can talk with the dead, if you want to, and I'd be very interested in how some of you do if you try his description of how to do it.
Sounds like it might be eminently possible, so if you have the colonies for it, you might give it a shot.
My guest is Bruce Vaughn.
We'll continue to talk about the afterlife and the nature of it in a moment.
Alright, once again, Bruce Mullen.
Bruce, it seems like your explanation of where we go and what happens to us when we die boils down to our expectations, and in a lot of ways, that seems without justice.
In other words, Um, there are very bad people who do very bad things, like people who knock down the towers and the Pentagon and all the rest of it.
Uh, if their expectations are they're heroes, and they will go to the land of virgins and all the rest of it, then your... what you believe through your research about all of this suggests that might absolutely be true, and that makes it seem like there's... like it's unjust.
I would agree that that specific incident you're talking about, I don't want those guys living in a place like that.
That was just the worst.
But I mean, there might be somebody else who believes that if you kill somebody and cannibalize them and eat them, you take on the power of their soul.
And so that is their belief system.
Therefore, that's what they get.
And in that specific case, what they may get is to, upon death, enter an area populated entirely by people who share that belief, who are running around killing and cannibalizing people.
Uh, you may end up living in a, in a, in a, you might call it a cannibal's hell.
A place where... Where it's truly an eye for an eye.
There we were.
Yeah, we... Yeah, teeth are hard to eat.
Well, um, I don't intellectually find what you're saying to be... Well, maybe, maybe it is, maybe there is that sort of justice then.
That's how I view it.
What better place for a thief than a place populated entirely by thieves.
Where does an atheist go?
In some ways, atheists may be in a good position.
about this, where does an atheist go? You know in some ways atheists may be in a good
Why?
position. Why? If it's someone who essentially says, I really don't know what happens and
I'm choosing not to believe in anything.
No, that's an agnostic.
Okay.
An atheist says, there is no God, there's no heaven, there's no hell, it's all bull.
You die and the worms crawl in and the worms crawl out.
That's an atheist.
I would expect to find such a person in Focus 23, much the same as a person who believes, for example, that when I die, I go to sleep forever.
Well, that's going to be one hell of a surprise for him then.
And in some cases, I would say that... One heck of a surprise.
Yeah, one heck of a surprise.
It may be that the atheist who believes there's nothing may find himself in a place entirely alone with nothing.
And I would also say that... Well, that would be a surprise.
I mean, in other words, consciousness would continue and be aware of this Yes.
That's entirely possible.
Oh, I hope there's a few people out there tonight listening to that.
And let me say that this retrieval process we talked about earlier is a process in which someone who learns the art of retrieval may encounter an atheist stuck in Focus 23.
And may be able to assist that atheist in accepting that perhaps there are other possibilities.
Perhaps there are other places to be in the afterlife.
And that this person who's learned the art of retrieval may be able to help that atheist move from this desperate place they found themselves in to a much better place.
That's what retrieval is for.
Do you think there are angels and demons, that is to say, Um, entities, uh, that either were from God or are from God that are separate from, uh, human souls living or dead?
Uh, there probably are.
I have not... You haven't run into them?
Well, I've run into beings that I would say have never lived human lives.
Oh, that's pretty interesting.
But... And what have you learned from them?
Oh, what have I learned from them?
Well, it was... Yes, when you encounter something that's never been human, what kind of communication takes place?
I'm very curious.
Well, it depends on whether we're talking about beings from other systems that are like
our physical world, the ones you might call aliens, or whether we're talking about beings
who exist, I guess I would say, within such a large perspective that human existence would
just be a very, very small portion of their existence that they would know about.
A lot of people are sending me computer messages suggesting that you are being fooled.
This would be a Christian perspective, that you're being fooled.
That these are demons.
That are painting a picture for you that ain't so, but you're buying it.
What do you say to them?
I would say that I'm hearing the expression of a very strong belief and that it's a difficult one to argue against because if I encounter a deceased person who gives me information that I had no other way of knowing, that I then verify with some physically living person, I would say that, you know, Occam's razor.
The simplest explanation is that's what happened.
Someone like you're talking about would say, well, no, what you encountered was a demon who was pretending to be that person only as a way of tricking you into losing your soul.
That's correct.
And perhaps coming on the radio and telling these kinds of stories even in order to capture more lost souls.
Yes.
And it's a belief held by many, by many people.
In fact, some people who have attended my workshop have held such beliefs.
One in particular was a woman who held that belief and unfortunately, or fortunately, her own perception had opened somewhat.
Every time she laid down to go to sleep, she encountered these dark demons.
In the workshop, probably the one exercise I teach that was the only one I could teach I don't know.
one that she learned, one in which you do something to cause yourself to feel love and
then project that love. In that exercise, as she closed her eyes to begin the exercise,
she immediately perceived these demons she had always seen.
As she began to cause herself to feel love, she realized there was a squirt gun in her
hand, a non-physical squirt gun with a little tube connected to her heart. She picked the
little squirt gun and gave each one of them a shot and they all disappeared. I'm not
here to change anyone's beliefs about anything and if you choose to believe that there are demons
out there, I would say that it's in some ways very similar to choosing to believe that
the earth is flat and that if you sail too far from the shore you'll fall into the
great abyss.
Do you think, Bruce, that we are meant to speak with the dead?
Do you think that Mother Nature or the creative force or whatever you want to call it wants these two planes to interact or will allow these two planes to interact?
A lot of people feel whatever we call the veil is dropping and more and more people are communicating with the other side and eventually it'll be an open kind of like a You know, an open meeting place, and the living and the dead will speak all the time.
I agree with that, and I would say that I see that as part of the earth changes.
You do?
Yes.
I see that, in my view, from what I've found, I would say that, first of all, I've talked about the power of love.
Love also has a way of opening one's perception beyond its normal limits, and I would say that for the last perhaps ten years, the reality, this physical world that we live in, has been passing into what you might think of, you might think of it this way.
You might think that somewhere in the universe there is a source of pure unconditional love energy, perhaps the size of a galaxy.
Okay.
And that a beam of this energy is passing through space, a rather large beam.
And thinking of it in this way, I would say that for at least the last ten years, this place we live has been passing into that energy, and that it's begun to open people's awareness automatically that this is part of the reason that, as you said, this veil seems to be dropping more and more, that it seems to be happening.
And that, in answer to your question, yes, I believe that... Well, all forms of the supernatural, Bruce, seem to be on the increase.
I mean, seriously on the increase.
So that might underline that a little bit.
yes and and i would say that this is an opportunity for humankind to
to witness the dissolution of these of the veil of these barriers between these
places where human beings exist to allow humankind to become a new form of being one that
is not separated into different areas of
we know that's one possibility bruce another is uh...
that we're gonna blow ourselves to bits uh... lower physical world themselves
to bits and then the possibility it's an interesting world we have right now and
uh... we may not be headed toward this unconditional love cloud fast enough
well it we certainly have uh...
had our awareness opened into a number of things that uh...
we didn't really know about before haven't we Thank you.
Yes.
Yes, but as this momentum is underway, there's also this other force that seems to be pressing in very hard right now that could result in our utter destruction.
Physical destruction.
Physical destruction, yes.
Well, which do you think is more likely to occur first?
The general acceptance of unconditional love as we pass through this cloud opening it all up for us or utter destruction?
My strongest desire is that this process we're going through leads us all to understand that We are all members of the same species, we are all members
of the same group and that nuking each other is counterproductive.
My money is on unconditional love.
Well you know, you bet where your heart is.
I tried that with the NFL, and I bet the teams I love, you know?
I love the Raiders, I love the Chargers, and these hard bets, boy, you lose them all the time, Bruce.
And maybe in losing, we can still learn more about what it means to experience and express unconditional love to an ever greater degree.
And aside from that, we may blow our physical world to bits, but we're more than our physical bodies, in my opinion.
Yeah, that's an interesting road to go down for a second.
Of course, you've had conversations with the dead, so I was about to ask you, what is your understanding of the nature of our soul?
Oh, the understanding of the nature of our soul.
I would say that The one you're talking to, this Bruce fellow, is an individual expression of a much larger being that some people might call their greater self, some might call their higher self.
Monroe called it his I there.
I call it my disc only because in my experience that's how I encountered it.
That I exist as an individual expression of a larger being, and that even though I'm not aware, typically, of that larger being, I and it are really the same being.
I don't suppose you've had any conversations with Robert Monroe, have you?
Of course.
You have?
No, I knew him when he was physically alive.
Oh no, I meant recent conversations.
Yes.
You have.
If anybody would try and reach back and have a conversation, it would certainly be Robert.
Yes.
He's certainly one of the people that I would say is still interested and active in his own way.
He would be.
And that brings up another topic.
Are there some people who pass into the next life, hither or yon, up or down, who will
not communicate with the living, who you cannot call up in the process that you described
earlier?
In my experience, that does happen.
Sometimes it's a temporary condition.
When my mother died, for example, I could reach her for the first day or so for several
hours after she died.
And then for a period of about a week, I couldn't find her and I was concerned.
I asked a helper, one of these non-physical folks who is out there to assist us, how come I can't find her?
Where is she?
What he said was, well, she's in the process of doing something.
It would be inappropriate for you to interrupt.
Call again later.
A week later.
Really?
Yeah.
Maybe she was in processing.
Yes, she was.
Go to the Air Force.
You're in process and for a while you don't talk to anybody.
In her specific case, she had carried along with her some of the habits of her physical life, namely some of the habits of disease and discomfort, pain that she had in her physical life.
A lot of what she was dealing with was sort of unlearning those habits.
A week later, I happen to be sitting outside, sipping on some iced tea, and she popped into my mind and said, I'm back, Bruce, call your dad and I have a message for him, and call your sister, I have a message for her.
A lot of us, if we're lucky, Bruce, live to be a very old age.
And we get infirmed and we have health problems and frankly by the time we die we're pretty much wrecks.
Yep.
And a lot of people wonder over there on the other side what kind of condition we're in.
I would say that for some people in that condition they carry at least temporarily the habit of the wrecked body if you will.
But that there is a place that I've explored and a number of people have explored in our afterlife in this third area called Focus 27 by Monroe.
Right.
A place he labeled the Health and Rejuvenation Center, a place where people who carry such habits, you can think of it as a hospital, as a place where people are assisted.
An example.
One of my explorations of this place, I stood in a room and watched as a man was brought in who had died in a fire.
He was in great pain when he died.
He was brought in and sat on sort of a table that looked a little like an operating table.
A bunch of people came into the room, sitting in seats like amphitheater seats.
A man walked up to the fellow laying on the table who was under a sheet.
I'm Dr. So-and-so, and I'm here to treat you today, and I'd like you to know that you have a couple of choices.
You can choose to be healed scar-free in an instant, or if you'd like, you can take a little while with it.
The man under the sheet started laughing at how ridiculous it sounded that he could be healed scar-free instantly.
After all, he thought he was still physically alive.
And so he said, well, instantly, of course, Doc.
And when he said that, the doctor stepped back.
The other people in the room began to fill Art with a feeling of unconditional love so strong it just makes my heart beat to remember.
And?
And those people then beamed the energy of unconditional love into that man who's under the sheet.
It lasted for several seconds and then the doctor with great flourish pulled the sheath
off the man and the next thing he knew he was standing upright in front of the doctor
and those who were looking at him, instantly healed.
Instantly healed, not a scar on him.
Bruce, hold on.
We're at the top of the hour.
I'm Mark Bell.
I'm going to be a doctor.
Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies 1-800-825-5033.
First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
From west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255, east of the Rockies 1-800-825-5033.
First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
To reach out on the toll free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
That would be me.
Good morning, everybody.
My guest is Bruce Mullen.
We're gonna take calls here in a moment and let you ask him anything you want.
This is a man who talks to the dead.
This is a man who has just taught you how to talk to the dead, if you so desire.
And it'd be interesting almost to do an open line program on all of you who have done it.
Wouldn't that be something?
So, back to Bruce Mullen and your questions coming up in a moment.
Once again, here's Bruce Mullen.
Bruce, I want to ask this before we dive into the telephones and who knows what we're going to meet when we do that.
Bruce, do you think there is a god and a devil?
I would say that I certainly believe there is a God.
You think there is a God?
And I would say that in my exploration from that I would say there are a number of devils.
A number of devils?
What about Lucifer, the main horned guy that steals souls and puts people in fiery pits and that kind of stuff?
I haven't found him in my explorations.
No, huh?
Each of the hells I talked about earlier appears to have sort of a corporate climber who aspires to be the biggest and the best and that's the one that's the devil or the Satan of that hell.
So, in a sense then, the creator or the God force is the architect of both heaven and hell as you have described them.
In my view, yes.
You know, when I was a little kid I tried to get a handle on this concept of God.
Right.
And at that point I knew there was this thing called the universe that was very large and so in my child's way of understanding I decided that God must be like a big brain that's slightly larger than the universe and that everything in the universe is just a thought in the mind of God.
That's fascinating.
Are you ready to speak with the public?
And yes, I would say that both heavens and hells are a part of God.
That's fascinating. Are you ready to speak with the public?
Let's go for it.
Now, wait, just one more thing.
Sure.
I know you've written books and you've been kind enough to come on.
I want to let you promote your books.
Your latest book is Voyages into the Unknown, Exploring the Afterlife series?
It's called Exploring the Afterlife series and Voyages into the Unknown is the first of four and that book is is sort of my early experience learning how to do this.
Okay, then your latest would be Voyages into the Afterlife.
That's the third one.
See, I've got them listed here and I looked at the last and then the first.
The second book is called Voyage Beyond Doubt.
I started a monster with this word, voyage.
The second book is called Voyage Beyond Doubt and talks about my experiences that eventually led to
of proving to myself that the afterlife exists.
Bye.
The third book, Voyages into the Afterlife, is a book that describes exploration of this Focus 27 place we haven't talked a lot about yet.
Actually, two things.
We've got to get to that, but we didn't finish the story about the man and the woman who were living together and he was trying to convince them otherwise he'd have to give them the boot.
I'm glad you came back to that.
He called himself a preacher and he said, I went to their home and I counseled them and I told them they either had to get married or live in separate houses.
He said, these people always did the same thing to me.
They pulled out a Bible.
And they opened it to a passage in which Jesus is being questioned.
It's the story of a man marries a woman, he dies, and according to Hebrew law at the time, if he had a brother, she's now the wife of the brother.
And the brother dies, and now she's the wife of the other brother.
And in the story, the people who are quizzing Jesus say, now in this afterlife you claim that exists, whose wife is she?
And he said they always pointed out that Jesus' words said, no one is taken or given in marriage in the kingdom of heaven.
He said every time I went to tell them they had to get married or move out, they would hit me with this passage in the Bible and tell me, that's the word of Jesus Christ.
And if you're telling us something different, we're going with what Jesus said.
He said that eventually push came to shove and one Sabbath morning, he decided today was the day.
They were standing sort of in the middle of the congregation, and he asked the couple to stand up, and he told them that today was the day.
Either you agree to get married, or you agree to move into separate houses, or I'm going to cast you out.
He said the couple came up in front of the congregation, faced the congregation, and said, if we have to give up our love for each other, or go against the word of Jesus Christ and the Bible to stay here, then cast us out.
He said, I performed the ceremony and they disappeared right in front of the congregation.
And he said, as far as I knew, that I had just sent them to hell.
He said he went into his office after the service and he was feeling a little upset about what he had done.
After all, these people didn't love each other.
And they did have a point in the word of Jesus.
And he said, I got down on my knees and I started praying to Jesus to know that what I did was right.
And he said, it started to get light in my office.
He said, it got intensely bright in my office.
And when I turned around to see what the light was, he said, there was Jesus Christ standing in front of me.
And Jesus said to me, the love of Christ is for all, even for those, the least of them.
And he said, I knew he was telling me that his love was even for the ones I had cast out.
He said, this was terribly upsetting.
And in fact he went to other preachers and told the story about Jesus' visits and they didn't know what to make of it.
He ended up speaking with some of the old venerated preachers of the time and they told him they knew what was going on.
They said that was not Jesus who came into your office, that was Satan himself who came into his office who's trying to deceive you.
He said this was a problem because one of the rules he had preached was that once you got to heaven you were safe.
Satan could never get in there.
And now they were telling him that Satan had come in.
He said, this was against the rules.
He continued to be very concerned and eventually decided that he would accept the word of Jesus who visited him in the office and began to preach that message.
began to preach that the love of Christ was for all, even for the couple he had cast out.
Naming that couple, which was against the rules, one of the rules was if someone was
cast out you're never to mention their name again.
He mentioned their name.
He said one Sabbath morning there were two of the oldest venerated preachers of the line
in his congregation and he said, I knew what was going to happen and it did.
He said they stood up as soon as I said the names and they began to tell me that I was
preaching the word of Satan, that I was deceiving my congregation and I had to agree to stop
or they were going to cast me out.
And he said I found it quite ironic.
I had to stand in front of my congregation, which had grown.
I had to add services, he said.
I found it quite ironic, he said, that I had to tell them if I have to go against the word of Jesus Christ to stay here, then I guess you'll have to cast me out.
They came ahead and performed the ceremony, and he fully expected to find himself in hell.
He said, I found myself floating in blackness, and a light began to approach, and as the light got closer, I realized it was the same Jesus Christ who had visited my office, who explained to me that I had been in what's called a hollow heaven, and that I had some choices to make.
I could go back in, which was forbidden by the rules.
I could choose to incarnate again, or I could choose to come and work at a place called the House of God Center in Focus 27, of all things.
What brings us to focus 27 or maybe we could call it area 27?
Sure, right.
So, area 27, what is that?
It's the third major area of our afterlife existence and it's an area I would describe
as one in which all the people there are in free association with all the other people
there.
No one's beliefs are forced on anyone else.
No one's will is forced on anyone else.
It's a place where thoughts are things and anything you desire.
Art, maybe you'd like to live in a huge house overlooking the ocean in the tropics.
Focus 27 is a place where the act of imagining such a place creates it in a way that is so real to you.
That it's just like a physical reality.
A place where there's really no need to work for a living.
I mean, you want a steak, you want it done exactly the way you like it?
Just imagine it, and it's as real as... So then you certainly are telling me, then, that in the afterlife, there is physicality as we understand it here.
I mean, you're talking steaks the way you want them, and beer, and women, and sex, and all that, right?
I would say that for the inhabitants of these realities, their surroundings are as real to them as ours is to us.
Yes.
That's very hopeful.
You and I wouldn't call it physical, but the people who are there would say, I created this wonderful chair and I'm sitting in it.
I can see it here.
You want to sit in it?
You can.
God, a place where there's NFL and no baseball and no hockey.
All right.
All right, listen, we've got to go to the phones here.
I promised, and people are waiting.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Bruce Mullen.
Hi.
Hello.
Hello.
Hi.
This is Jenny.
Hi, Bruce.
Hi, Jenny.
How are you doing?
Pretty good.
Jenny is someone who's attended my workshop, Art.
Well, she got in on the first time caller line, so good, Jenny.
You've been to his workshops.
What do you think?
Art, I just wanted to say one thing real quickly, and I'd be happy to answer that question.
I really enjoy your show.
Especially the music.
Thank you.
I have a select comfort bed.
Thank you.
Aren't they something?
I've been listening to so many of these ads tonight.
Yeah, they are.
They're great.
I, 16 months ago, discovered Bruce Mullen's website and began reading his first book.
Right.
October of last year, I attended his workshop, but long before I got to his workshop, I I had been very interested in wanting to know why I was here, what this was all about.
I felt I had the right to not only ask those questions, but to get proof that there is life beyond what we call death from my own direct experience.
Sure.
Why couldn't I go and find out for myself?
Right.
Exactly.
That's what this program is all about.
Sure.
Why do I have to believe in what others tell me, especially when those beliefs don't quite jive with me?
Okay.
So I was very interested in what he was teaching.
I just would like to say that I was very skeptical not only of his teachings but anyone else's.
Are you still?
No, and I'll tell you why.
I began applying his simple techniques and all along I was thinking, oh I'm just making
this up.
But I went along with it and from reading Bruce's book I decided that why don't I just
go to Focus 27, place the intention to be there and create a wonderful park where I
So, in using my imagination, I did this.
I borrowed a park from my childhood and added some flowers and trees and whatnot.
And while I was there, something very interesting happened.
Someone appeared, and I couldn't really completely see them.
It seemed to be very bright and shiny, but I received a feeling knowing that it was my deceased mother.
Now, I'm still thinking, oh, this is interesting.
You know, I'm making this up, but I went along with it.
Okay.
And it was kind of an emotional reunion.
Still skeptical.
And then she asked me if I would just follow her somewhere.
And all of a sudden, I'm in territory that, you know, this wasn't my plan.
I didn't have the intention to follow anybody.
This is really the moment that Bruce was talking about when what you have created suddenly surprises you and something happens that is not from your imagination and it takes over.
In other words... The unexpected.
Something unexpected that suddenly enters into the scene.
That happened to you?
Yes.
And so I decided to follow her.
Why not?
My thinking was Well, if I am making this up, so what?
Let's just follow.
Let's go with it.
Let's go with it.
Right.
Oh, I did.
And we seem to travel into an area that was kind of what I would say foggy.
And please keep in mind that all of this is being seen through what we see in the mind's eye.
If you're daydreaming, what you're seeing in your mind's eye, OK?
Yes.
It can be very clear.
It can be not clear.
But the important thing is to follow the knowing feelings that you get.
But anyway, I followed her and the next thing I knew I was in a place that seemed to be identical to my grandfather's lake home.
And he in essence told me that he was down on the beach all by himself.
He had been there since he died.
Okay.
And I went down and approached him and he was in a state of depression.
He was happy to see me.
It wasn't long before I discovered why he was there.
He felt that he had been responsible for his daughter's, my mother's, demise.
Her mental problems and so forth, and her unhappiness, which he hadn't been.
But psychiatrists had told him he had been responsible before he passed away.
You know, being her father and all.
So he was in a self-imposed hell, sort of?
No, focus 23.
Yeah, but... He was isolated.
He wasn't associating with any others.
Yes, I understand, but he was still imposing this, in essence, on himself.
Yes, sir.
Absolutely.
Yes.
And that's how, that's what we create in that focus.
Self-imposed, little isolated selves, or whatever.
Right.
So I sat with him, and I was very worried about talking to him about my beliefs.
Oh, for instance, about the possibility of reincarnation and so forth, and that he didn't have to really be here in such isolation.
That, um, and he seemed to take it okay, and he listened.
And then I didn't know what else to do, Art.
So I just said goodbye and hoped that I would be seeing him again.
And when I came out of this relaxed state, this contact with my grandfather, it hit me like a brick wall that I'd been presented with my first retrieval experience.
So I went back.
You went back?
I went back to my grandfather.
He was still there.
And I sat down with him and was determined to perhaps talk with him and just help him to understand that he wasn't guilty for my mother's life and death.
He wasn't.
He didn't need to be here anymore.
He could come with me to a place where he would be with others who were loving.
All right.
I want you to hold it right there.
And I have to take a break.
I have to abide by the clock here.
Network says so.
So we'll break here and we'll continue with all this in just a moment.
Fascinating.
Here's a young lady who did it.
I'm Art Bell.
Thanks for watching.
Running every time to a secret place inside.
To reach our goal in the kingdom of knives.
From west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
1-800-618-8255, east of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222, or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
To recharge on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
It certainly is.
Good morning.
Bruce Moen is my guest and we've got a young lady on the line who has followed, actually been to his seminars and done, as he has suggested, Can be done.
And in terms of talking to the dead, she has done it.
She has done a retrieval.
We don't quite have all of the details yet, but it sounds to me like she's suggesting to us that absolutely works.
We'll get the rest of the story in a moment.
All right, once again, back to my guest, Bruce Mullen, and this young lady and young lady, if you would please, you say you went back And, uh, so by all means, please continue.
Um, yeah, Art, I went back and, um, the very next day, as a matter of fact, and I was, um, a little bit apprehensive about sitting down with my grandfather again at his beach and sharing with him my beliefs about the fact that we live, we can live many times in the physical.
He doesn't need to be in this isolation anymore.
And I've been reluctant simply because I'd only known my grandfather to be non-religious.
He refused to go to church.
Right.
We never talked about any religious beliefs at all.
But I went ahead and shared this information with him and he began, he just listened a great deal.
And finally he stood up and he was staring out at the lake and I didn't quite know what to do next so I was just standing there.
And he turned around and said something that completely changed my life.
He said to me, you know something, Ginny, the Masons believed in reincarnation, too.
Well, two things there are.
What is this about Masons?
I did not know.
Was he saying he had been a Mason?
And number two, the Masons believe in reincarnation and he'd even been open to that?
I don't know.
I was absolutely shocked.
In my mind, standing there on this beach with my grandfather, I was tongue-tied.
I didn't know what to do or say.
And then he just indicated that, okay, he would go.
He would leave with me.
And we did.
And my mother then arrived as we were leaving, as well as another person who Bruce described as a helper.
These are people who have experienced physical earth life and who choose now to help out of love.
Right.
And they eventually just escorted him on.
And I literally was flying down.
And when I came out of the state, I was just beside myself.
I was shocked.
I ran to the computer to learn about Masons.
And sure enough, I found out that they accept members of all religious beliefs, including Wicca.
I didn't know any of this.
I then contacted my aunt, his sole surviving child, my deceased mother's sister, and said, was your father, my grandfather, a Mason?
And she wanted to know how I knew this.
It had been a tremendous embarrassment to my grandmother that he was involved with this non-Christian thing.
You see what I mean?
It was a negative thing to a Christian person.
I understand.
And so she had made sure that the grandchildren would not be influenced by my grandfather.
So there was your verification?
Yes.
It completely knocked my socks off.
I understand.
I can't thank you enough for calling.
We're going to have to go, but I really appreciate your story.
Thank you.
Thank you, Art.
Right.
That was just chance.
That wasn't set up or anything else.
That's amazing.
So there's somebody who did it, Bruce.
Bruce, I understand that you would like to have people attend your seminars, but have you told us enough in the program tonight so that people can try this with some hope of success based on what you've told us?
Well, Art, there is quite a bit more to it.
Certainly, as Jenny just described, she hadn't been to the seminar when she attempted this, And she got her verification right away, which is very good.
But there are more things to know, things like our beliefs can affect how we perceive over there and what we perceive over there.
There are a number of, certainly in a two-day seminar, there's more than just a little bit of imagination.
There are a number of concepts and ideas that I've come to understand through the years of doing this.
including things like beliefs, including things like the nature of the way we perceive in
non-physical reality can cause a lot of inaccuracy to creep in in what we are doing.
I would say yes, people could certainly use that method and make contact.
And go explore.
And go explore.
There is more to know about...
Where do you hold these seminars, by the way?
The way these seminars happen, Art, is that someone typically who visits my website contacts
me and volunteers to host one in their area.
I see.
The person who hosts attends for free.
The one that Jenny attended after her experience was in Friday Harbor off the coast of Washington State.
The person who volunteers to host handles the logistics of a place to hold a workshop and snacks and that sort of thing and then I come and do it.
Okay, how many of these have you done?
Oh, probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 35.
I've done this all over the states.
I've done my workshops several times in Australia, in Korea, Ireland, Germany.
The Korean one was interesting in that I didn't speak a word of Korean and most of the people in the room didn't speak a word of English, so it was done through a translator.
It was one of the early workshops I did, and I was quite surprised that none of those people understood a word I said.
They only understood the interpreter, and yet they all had experiences, in some cases, similar to Jenny's.
That's amazing.
Alright, Wild Card Liner on the air with Bruce Maughan.
Hello.
Hi, Bruce.
I know you touched on this previously, but I'd like to take it a little bit deeper.
If a couple gets married, They're very in love with each other, almost on the level of soulmates, and one spouse does die, and the other one's on this physical plane, and the other one doesn't go to a hollow heaven, but goes to the real afterlife.
And then the one on the physical plane gets married again, and they're obviously just as deeply in love with this other person.
Now, when all three of these people, or Well, in a little bit of experience I have with such things, I would say that they will be reunited in the afterlife.
How does this play out in Heaven?
In the little bit of experience I have with such things I would say that they will be
reunited in the afterlife.
The original couple will certainly be able to meet with each other, communicate with
each other and perhaps this idea that we can only love one person is a physical world thing
that we have taken on as a belief.
And if these are truly loving people I would have to surmise that the three of them will
be able to exist in a way that...
That's beneficial for all, and I don't mean necessarily married again or anything like that.
Sounds a little communal.
Yeah.
As I said before, this Focus 27 place, a place where no one forces their will or beliefs on another person in such an encounter, people who've gotten to that place in our afterlife are the kind of people who would not force their will on their previous mate.
I think you are.
I hope you are.
be allowed by the other to do as they themselves see best fit.
I hope you are if you're not in trouble.
This has to tie in with the unconditional love.
I've contacted, and I do without a doubt in my mind believe that there is life after death, eternal life.
I'm very interested in finding out more about that in reading your books, Bruce.
In 79, I sailed across the Gulf and I'm going to go as fast as I can so that you can get this story.
This is a true story that really happened.
I sailed across the Gulf from Galveston, Texas.
I ended up on an island west of Key West called the Dry Tortugas.
The maintenance man knew the gentleman I sailed over there with, they had met before.
He asked him to take me up to Mudd's cell.
And Dr. Mudd, I don't know if you remember, he was the one who Help John Wilkes Booth saved his life.
He assassinated Lincoln.
And anyways, he was sentenced to life in prison at the Dry Tortugas at Fort Jefferson.
So we go up to this cell where he was held prisoner and we go in this first room and it was very warm.
And, and woman's perfume was as strong as it could be all over this place.
Like somebody had spilled a bottle of woman's perfume down in the floor.
And me and Mark looked at each other and we just kind of, it was fairly dark.
We went into the next room.
There were only two rooms in this cell.
This room was very cool.
No woman's perfume.
Nothing strange about it.
Just, but a very peaceful feeling in this place.
To think, you know, this was a prison cell and We come back into the room that we had just come out of, that we, you know, had entered, where we smelled the perfume.
No woman's perfume at all.
None, none whatsoever.
And the room was the same temperature as the one we had just left.
Well, I couldn't explain it, and I've come in contact with the dead since I was seven years old.
My grandmother was a psychic, and I mean, I don't want to go into all that, but at any rate... Anyway, do you have a question specifically, or...?
Well, what I found out later was what this was.
I watched this movie called Dr. Mudd, and what happened was his wife got a presidential pardon.
Yes.
to allow him to be released from this island because he saved everybody's life from yellow
fever.
Yes.
And she, at the end of this movie, it was like a documentary, at the end of the movie
it showed her meeting him at that cell.
And I believe that that was her who greeted us at that door.
Oh.
And that's when, ten years later, I seen the movie Art and that's when it hit me like a
I thought, my God.
Gotcha.
That's it.
Alright, well that would imply, Bruce, that in some cases, we are indeed stuck in places of great import during our lives.
We're stuck.
I mean, there she was.
or at least the smell of perfume.
And yes, some people who are stuck do get stuck in places that they are familiar with
and comfortable with or have some strong connection with their physical life.
When you do your seminars, I suppose you get a disproportionate number of people who do
want to talk to the dead, who do want to communicate with the dead, and they wouldn't come to your
seminar.
Yes.
And if you were to ask the population and the people listening to you tonight, which
would number in the millions, what percentage do you think would say no thank you?
I guess I would have to maybe pick the other side and say there are probably 10% of the people listening or maybe more who I think so.
And yes, the people who come to my seminars certainly are a self-selected group.
too dangerous, I can't go there and some are just not interested.
But 10% you think will give it a shot?
I think so and yes, the people who come to my seminars certainly are a self-selected
group.
Predisposed, yeah.
Yes.
Okay, West of the Rockies, you are on the air with Bruce Mullen, hi.
Tucson, I'm sorry about that.
Missed the first part.
Go ahead, sir.
That's fine.
Um, I was wondering, uh, Bruce, uh, do you ever get, uh, people, I, I mean, uh, excuse me, are you able to reach people on the other side, relatives of people that are on the phone with you?
Um, I'm, I'm, I'm glad you asked that question.
I'm, I'm not a medium.
Uh, I'm, I'm not someone like John Edward or Ray Kroc who does this for people.
I'm, I'm the kind of person who teaches others how to do it for themselves, or to do it for others.
Makes absolute sense.
Um, uh, first time caller line, not a lot of time.
First time callers, area code 775-727-1222.
Linda, I'm gonna have to bleep that out.
Uh, the one rule we have here is you're not allowed to use your last name on the air, so... No problem.
Let's begin again.
You are Linda, and where are you?
Um, I'm in, um, Scottsdale.
Okay.
Okay, and I would like Bruce to cover some of the areas of the beings that are not in physical form, but that are not of the Earth plane, but further out than that.
All right.
In other words, beings, Bruce, that you have encountered, you said you had encountered them.
Yes.
Beings that were never human.
Yes.
In fact, in my third book, Voyages into the Afterlife, there's quite a bit of information about contact with A group of beings that I call the Second Gath Group.
It's not a name, but these essentially were a group of beings who claimed to live on a home world, a physical planet within our physical universe, who claimed that they were in an area that Monroe described as the Gathering, an area in which The reason they were here was that they were observing these earth changes we talked briefly about.
And in communication with them a number of times and over a period of years.
Sort of following along with their progress.
This particular group was a group that I would describe as a telepathic race.
And a number of these beings I've encountered We humans tend to think of ourselves as isolated, separated individuals.
This particular group was a group that had a completely different form of consciousness.
They were a very large population, but essentially all shared the same mind, a telepathic race, if you will.
I've encountered some others, a few others, but none with as much... Would you go as far as to say like a hive mentality?
Yes, and I would say that my understanding of what telepathic meant was very, very thin and watery compared to what it's really like.
These individuals essentially, because of the evolutionary path of consciousness they chose, Essentially all used and had access to the same mind, and it required that their existence be a very cooperative existence in which none of them expressed strong individual thoughts or experiences, lest they disturb that mind they all shared.
So hive mentality, as long as we keep the borg out of it, yeah, it's similar.
There are going to be a lot of people, Bruce, who are going to want to know more about what you do.
We have an obvious link on our website to your website.
That would be a beginning point.
You have books.
We also have a link that would take people to like Amazon.com or whatever, and they can get your books.
Or do you have an email address that you would care to give out?
Think hard before you do that.
Yes, I do.
Okay.
and that email address is B as in Bruce, A as in M, M-O-E-N, so B-A Moen at the word
afterlife and a hyphen, the word knowledge.com, B-A Moen at afterlife-knowledge.com. Okay,
that's B-A Moen, Boy America Moen, M-O-E-N, at afterlife-knowledge.com.
Correct. Well, you're going to get a lot of email. Well, you know, every
time I turn the thing on, I get about 35 pieces of junk email and two or three pieces
that are worth reading. Maybe I'll get more that's worth reading. Actually, the internet
is pretty much full of viruses right now.
Um, all forms of viruses right now, I think it's, uh, separating the idiots from the smart people, and all the idiots will open the viruses and they will be off the internet, uh, and off their computer for an extended period of time, and the smart ones will not.
So, it's, uh, it's sort of an evolutionary process on the internet, but you'll get a lot of real email from this.
That's B-A, Boy America, B-A, Moen, M-O-E-N, at Afterlife, That's right.
or hyphen if you will, knowledge.com.
Very easy.
I really, really appreciate your being on the program this morning, Bruce, and we're gonna have you back again.
I'm certain it's fascinating what you're doing.
A little dangerous from my point of view, but fascinating.
Well, you know what Columbus did was dangerous.
That's right, that's right.
And if he hadn't sailed, and he hadn't, well, we all know.
Yep.
Bruce, thank you.
Thank you very much, Art.
Good night, my friend.
Good night.
Take care.
Wow.
That was something, wasn't it?
There, uh, somebody earlier said it, uh, they're right, uh, there is no other program like this, as far as I know, anywhere.
Certainly is enjoyable.
From the high desert, I'm Art Bell.
▲
Export Selection