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May 15, 2002 - Art Bell
02:46:43
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Ingo Swann, Paul H. Smith - Remote Viewing. Steve Quayle - Bioterrorism
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♪♪ From the high desert and the great American Southwest,
I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in Earth's 24 time zones,
all of them covered by this program, which is Coast to Coast AM, and I'm Art Bell.
And oh my God, is it great to be back here.
Oh, is it good to be back here.
You'll just never know how good it is to be back here.
Listen, I'd like to welcome a brand new affiliate, K-N-F-T.
That's K-N-F-T in Baird, New Mexico.
9.50 on the dial in Baird.
And the GM there, Matt Runelf.
And the PD, Rob Roberts.
Thank you both very much.
Glad to have you along with whatever it is that we do in the middle of the night here.
Well, I guess I'm gonna begin by telling you, uh, the last couple of weeks for me, uh, has been... has been pretty interesting.
Um... really interesting, actually.
It was...
It was a Tuesday after I got off the air, and I'd be able to... I started to get these... I don't know about you, but everybody knows... Most people know when they're getting a fever.
You know, you get little signs.
And with me, it's sort of a little rushy feeling that I get.
That I couldn't really sit here and describe to you other than a little rushy feeling.
And I know that that means that I'm getting a fever.
And so, Tuesday night, after I was off the air, I said to my wife, I said, you know, I kind of feel like I'm getting a fever and uh you know I I said okay and went to sleep woke up the next morning and I had 101 and I thought okay you know like you always think uh where's the sore throat and uh you know you begin to start sneezing and snotting up and you know the usual that you get either with a cold or the flu or something like that right
Well, it didn't arrive that day, but the fever stayed with me and I was in the 100 to 101 and a half range, somewhere in there.
And so I kept waiting by day three of having this fever and then having no other symptoms.
The only symptoms I had were, you know, all the stuff you have with the fever.
You have sore muscles and aches and pains and all that stuff all over your body uniformly.
And of course, in my case, it worsened my back a little bit, because I already had that problem.
So, you know, it went straight to my back.
And after three days, I'm saying to myself, uh-oh, you know, I have no other symptoms.
I had a slight headache, but that comes with a fever as well.
Other than that, no sneezing, no coughing, no tickle in the throat, no sore throat, nada, nothing.
So, after three days, I went to my stash, which I had, a Y2K stash, of Cipro.
And I treated myself.
And I began taking Cipro twice a day.
Because of the natural conclusion, you know, after about three days, you probably got some kind of infection.
You know, if it's not gonna manifest itself as a cold or a flu or something like that, then you've got an infection.
So I began treating myself and took Cipro.
Well, Several more days go by.
The fever doesn't go away.
It begins getting higher and higher.
And so I went to a doctor here in town first.
And he checked all my vitals and they were fine.
But in the period of time that I was in here, when I went into his office, I'd been sweating like a pig.
And I sweated my fever away.
And so my temperature was actually below normal.
It was down around 96.
And then, I talked to him for about 10 or 15 minutes, and he said, well, you know, we should do some blood tests.
And I said, okay, how about, uh, Monday?
If it's not better by Monday, I'll come in and we'll do the blood tests.
And he said, yeah, that's a plan, you know, that's a good idea.
And, uh, you know, I showed him, dutifully showed him my Mexican Cibro.
And he said, uh, yeah, keep taking them.
You know, twice a day.
I said, OK.
You know, figuring he was going to write out something domestic.
He didn't.
He said, OK, go ahead.
Keep taking them.
And so I thought, well, OK.
Went home, waited, waited throughout the weekend, you know, thinking this damn thing's going to go away.
Well, it doesn't.
It starts bouncing up to one hundred and three and one hundred and four degrees.
And, you know, at that point, you're beginning to cook yourself.
And so In the middle of the night, I woke up and I was terribly high and I said to my wife, that's it.
We're going to Las Vegas to the hospital and I went into the hospital and they gave me, they took five vials of blood.
They gave me the usual doodle in a bottle test and a chest x-ray and you know, every test you could think of, they tested for everything in the world.
And they could find nothing with the exception of a very high white count, about 17,000.
My white count was up at 17,000.
So my body obviously, you know, was fighting something seriously.
But they hadn't, they didn't have a clue.
They don't know what.
And they still don't know what it is.
At this point, well, both doctors actually had advised me that some of the possibilities Uh, weren't all that good.
Uh, you know, it could be, uh, leukemia, uh, which would, uh, engender my getting a bone marrow test or cancer, uh, or something of that magnitude.
And so I was feeling very, I lost 12 pounds.
I do not recommend it.
In fact, you can see my, uh, previously chubby little face on, on the webcam right now.
I, uh, I was very sick I had a very high fever and I had had a very high fever for a very long time and after what the doctors told me I thought well maybe this is it baby you know it's your time and I began getting kind of morbid and I started making plans you know I started telling my wife what I thought she should do and some of the things that you would do if you thought you know there was a chance you might not be around
And for a while there, at the worst of it, I was definitely thinking that and beginning to make plans in that regard.
And then, about 24 hours ago now, the fever broke and stayed down.
And as I said in my little message on the website, if my fever broke and stayed away for 24 hours, which it is now done, then I would return to the air.
And, uh, it's been away 24 hours.
Actually, a little better than that now.
And so here I am, back on the air.
And, oh, oh, you'll never know how happy I am to be here in more ways than one.
Now, I'm not the only one with a... Nobody knows, uh, what this is.
I mean, they just flat don't know.
And the doctors told me they simply don't know.
So, uh, to find out any more, I, you know, had it not broken, I would have gone through a battery of, uh, A pretty serious test, you know, bone marrow.
I don't know how they get bone marrow, and I don't really want to know.
As it was, they tested me for it.
So I know a million things I don't have.
I know a lot of things I don't have.
But I knew that, you know, at about 103 degrees, I think you begin to cook the family jewels.
At about 104 degrees, you begin to cook what's upstairs.
That's pretty serious.
And when you have a temperature like that, you're kind of off in a different world.
You're off definitely in a different, uh, reality.
And... You know, I wasn't eating, uh, not because I couldn't hold it down, but because I just had no... I had zero hunger.
When I have a fever, I sort of... I go into this altered state.
I'm sure a lot of you do when you get a high fever, so you know what I mean.
Anyway, there's another fever story this morning, and in a moment, we're going to follow up on that.
If you'll say, oh, and in the next hour, We have the father of remote viewing, Ingo Swann here, along with Paul H. Smith, who was in the U.S.
Government Remote Viewers Project for years.
And so this dynamic duo will be here in the next hour.
My belief in remote viewing, the bar I set for belief in remote viewing, was passed many years ago for me now.
I'm well aware that remote viewing is real.
Absolutely real.
And the man who began it all, Ingo Swann, will be here next hour.
But coming up in a moment, an update on a story that is just breaking regarding some British troops.
And believe it or not, a fever.
Stay right there.
So, alright, there you've got my story, such as it is right now.
Here's an interesting story breaking from Afghanistan as of this date.
18 British soldiers serving in Afghanistan have been struck by a contagious but as of yet unidentified fever and 350 people have been quarantined, quarantined mind you, to prevent it from spreading.
Brigadier Roger Lane said that 18 ailing men were all military medical personnel serving at the main Allied airbase at Bagram, about 30 miles north of the capital Kabul.
Two of the soldiers were seriously ill.
In fact, their next of kin have been notified.
One was evacuated to Britain for treatment, while the others were flown to a U.S.
military hospital in Germany.
The rest are being cared for there in Bagram.
Now, their guessing, underline the word guessing, that it might be some sort of intestinal fever, but the fact of the matter is, they don't know what it is.
Soldiers first started reporting symptoms about three days ago, including fever, diarrhea, and vomiting.
The illness was similar to meningitis, but medics did not believe that was the culprit.
Now, I have on the line Stephen Quayle, and he was a guest, I believe, with George.
And by the way, thank you so much, George, for filling in during the days when I was teetering between here and there.
Stephen Quayle, and I think George had Stephen Quayle on at some point.
He's the author of the book, Breathe No Evil, a Primer for Understanding Bioterrorism, first published in 1996.
So I know you know who he is.
Now what I would like to do is bring him on for a little bit and ask him about this breaking story, these British troops with this fever.
And by the way, just one more item on what hit me.
You know, I had an awful lot of time to reflect on what it might be.
Oh, there's two big pieces of real important information I didn't give you.
Number one, In reflecting on what it might be, of course I thought, who have I come in contact with, you know?
Who might have given this to me?
And so nothing occurred to me, except back on April 15th, we had a windstorm here, winds which reached 84 miles an hour.
Bringing stuff up from the desert the high desert that probably had been buried there for the last 20 30 hundred or a thousand years I don't dinosaur eggs were probably flying through the air, and I thought well, maybe something you know in all of that I'll probably never know but eight days into the thing eight days into it mind you Ramona began to come down with the same thing I have so suddenly I thought aha I This is viral, and she still is suffering with it, with a fever of about a hundred and a half, you know, jumping around just the way mine did.
I watched my fever jump from 96 to nearly 104 in 20 minutes.
20 minutes!
Now, again, I have no idea what it is that this horrible thing is, but it carried those Symptoms that that ability literally to go from 96 which is below average obviously to 104 20 minutes 20 minutes.
I had this spectacular new thermometer that we finally went out and bought So we could document that very easily.
In fact, it happened in the doctor's office and he went, oh wow!
When I went there, you know, you're always scared when you go to the doctor.
So I sweated up a storm, broke the fever.
When he took my temperature when I first arrived, it was, you know, flat, below normal.
And I was in there talking to him for, I don't know, 10 or 15 minutes.
I said, try it again.
And he took it together 103.
So he went, oh wow!
Pretty strange stuff, whatever it is.
At any rate, I thought that Steve Quayle, Stephen Quayle, might be exactly the right person to comment on this breaking news story.
from Afghanistan.
Stephen, welcome to the program.
Well, good evening, Art.
Nice to have you back.
Yeah, actually, good to be back.
Really good to be back, Stephen.
You'll never know.
Well, you know, the interesting thing about what you're declaring is that we're now living in a period where basically you go to doctors, you've been through the test, you've done everything, and they basically have a question mark.
And I think that this situation in Britain, though it's not direct, excuse me, in Afghanistan with the British soldiers, Though it's not directly related, necessarily, to what you have, it's still in that category where people are saying, we don't know what's happening.
As you know, Art, when you read the story, the first thing they did at the Ministry of Defense in Great Britain was say, this was not a biological terrorist attack.
They don't know what it is.
They don't have a clue of what it is.
And if it were bacterial, you know, by now the symptoms would be pretty easy to, you know, pretty much not only define symptoms, but they could culture out whatever the Active pathogen is.
To me, Stephen, that's kind of like when something re-enters or enters our atmosphere and either burns up or leaves this wonderful show that is seen all up and down the east or west coast.
The first thing they say is, you know, it's a meteorite.
Well, how the hell do they know?
They haven't found a rock on the ground.
They don't know it's a meteorite for sure.
They just know something burned up, but that's what they automatically say.
It's like there, they said automatically, it's not bioterrorism.
Well, they don't know what the hell it is.
How do they know it's not?
Exactly, and I think that the denial that they immediately come out with makes me very suspicious.
We're talking about an Air Force...
base you know in bagram that basically has all sorts of former quote al-qaeda
and taliban that are at least sympathizers i could be working there
right now and our you know if you play it's a no-brainer i mean someone just
have to come in with just a little bit of uh...
uh... you know a pathogen in any type former shape in their pocket in a test tube
whatever and they've infected you know now remember this that
that they put a bounty on every british and american soldier over there meaning
they the al-Qaeda.
Right.
And the last report I've gotten, they say there's upwards of 400 locals working at the base, everything from janitors to, you know, helpers, you name it.
So, it's interesting, you know, when I see the denial that shows up so quickly, when an event like this happens, I said, okay, they don't know what it is, but they're denying it, just like you just detailed on the meteorites.
So, it's got my feelers up, my antennas up.
What's amazing to me is that most medical personnel, even at the Centers for Disease Control and others, unless they've been in the intelligence world, they don't know of the umpteen thousand genetically altered, in a laboratory, biological pathogens that are out there.
And, uh, when the Soviet Union broke up, we talked about this, uh, on your show, you know, several months ago, those scientists went everywhere and they took with them little tiny samples of everything.
So what I'm saying is, is that they better come to the conclusion that before they say it's not what, uh, you know, they want to deny immediately, they better come up with some, uh, solutions.
And it's conceivable that, Being as remote as Bagram is, it's amazing to me they don't have a full team over there, and maybe they do, but it's not being told.
And until they have a full investigative team over there with the scientific expertise and instrumentation and everything else that's necessary, This is very, very suspicious and I think it's very, very heads up to everyone that something else is going there.
Remember on your show, we talked about the Crimean-Congo hemorrhagic fever that broke out in Afghanistan, Pakistan and through Iran?
Yes, correct.
Keith, your webmaster, put the story up.
Nobody believed it.
We had to.
Right.
And that literally crashed the servers in Europe for James Defense Weekly.
Fortunately, the story was up.
Seeing what's going on right now, and obviously it's little bits of information, it's amazing to me that no one is saying, wait a minute, we've got a bounty on the heads of every British soldier and every American soldier over there.
We've got locals who may or may not have allegiances to the former regime, i.e.
the Taliban, may or may not be Al-Qaeda.
You know, somebody once said, and I think it's a great statement, the very first thing to suffer in a war is the truth.
That's the first casualty of any war.
Alright, well in this case that certainly would seem to be what they did.
They caused the truth to suffer.
Hold on, Stephen.
Stephen Quayle is with me.
It's the bottom of the hour.
I'm Art Bell.
Just nice to be able to say that.
Hi, I'm Art Bell.
It's been a while.
Oh, what a couple of weeks it's been, folks.
Stay right where you are.
We'll be right back.
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This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
It is indeed.
Stephen Quayle is my guest, and speaking of the Twilight Zone... Unbelievable.
I use somebody somebody out there from about I don't know 30 years ago
30 years ago, I had saved some audio of me on the island of Okinawa.
And I haven't had... You know, I lost whatever I had 15 or 20 years ago, and I... And so they sent me a sound file of myself on the island of Okinawa on the radio.
Just a short little clip.
And it's up on my website right now under What's New.
So if you want to see what I sounded like 30 years ago, I really sounded tragically young.
Really, really young.
Which, of course, I was.
And so there you are.
It's up on the website.
For me, it was a real mind blast to hear myself 30 years ago.
Oh, that's the other thing, which I thought was very interesting about my illness.
The hospital personnel just rilled the hell out of me about my time in Southeast Asia, Vietnam, Thailand, China, that whole area.
They asked me about it so many times that I began to wonder what they knew that I didn't.
Obviously, there are some things you can pick up, but you know, when the military sends you over there, they give you every shot in the world for everything they can think of.
And, uh, in Africa, I was in Africa as well, of course, and, uh, uh, took medicine for a couple of weeks for that.
Actually, three weeks, I think.
It was a three-week regimen or something of quinine.
And, uh, so... I, you know, I've been all over the world, and I suppose I could have picked anything up anywhere.
I still maintain that I think it was the big windstorm that we had here in the desert.
Uh, but that's, on my part, a simple guess.
My poor wife is still suffering from all of this and it sounds like it's a terrible thing to say but you know after about eight or nine days and also the fact that she didn't get it until eight or nine days after I had it also does not make sense because we do everything together we are with people together and we are obviously together all the time my wife and I are very very close soulmates and so we're just literally together all the time And I just couldn't imagine that the gestation period for whatever this was got to me eight days earlier than it did her.
But when she did finally get it, I went, whew!
It's viral!
Uh, thank God!
And, of course, that sounds terrible.
I know, uh, when a wife comes down with something and you say, whew, good!
But, uh, in a way, I certainly did say good, because to me that meant, well, it is, uh, viral of some kind, even if they don't have the slightest idea what it is.
It's viral, and there are a lot of things, they just, they have no idea what they are, and apparently this thing with the British troops in Afghanistan is one of those things, and it's like with Three Mile Island, you know, everything's under control.
Well, I was near Three Mile Island, it wasn't anywhere near under control, it was just about melting down, and you know, the first casualty of any disaster, not just war, but just about any Disaster of this kind is the truth.
So you've got to wonder, with regard to this whole bio-warfare business, how much truth we have.
Steven?
Well, first of all, Art, this is why it's imperative that people start doing their homework and getting a background in what to be looking for.
You know, the deal is that there are so many diseases out there and there's really only a handful of guys on a worldwide basis that could even probably really zero in on what you and your wife have been fighting.
One of them is Dr. Garth Nicholson.
The first gentleman to really identify the Gulf War Syndrome as Mycoplasma incognitus.
Right.
And so the interesting thing is when you're talking about a dust storm, you're talking about things that obviously can be captured, if you will, caught up in the air and delivered.
Your windstorm was a phenomenal event.
When I say phenomenal, I mean it was unusual.
The phenomenon, and again, what's in the ground, the spores, if you will, the different things that have been there for literally thousands of years can be stirred up.
But I think what people need to understand is that, you know, we can't drink water now unless it's filtered, and that's an absolute must.
People should be drinking filtered water.
Do you guys personally use like an internal air filter in your home and stuff?
We absolutely do, yes.
Okay, so the point is, is that even doing all that, still, You know, still, you've come down with something.
The British incident, and I'm going back and forth on purpose, okay?
The British incident, you know, first of all, bio-terrorist attack is a lot different than saying, that's what the Ministry of Defense denied.
But these are the same people that wouldn't admit to mad cow initially, they wouldn't admit to the hoof-and-mouth disease, so let me say this, big, big question marks, and I think I can fill in the blanks.
But what people need to understand now, Art, is that the very terrorists that are still quote, active in Afghanistan or in this country.
We put up a great, a great map for people that want to see where Al-Qaeda, Hamas, Islamic Jihad is located throughout the United States.
We've got a link to your website now.
Yeah, and they go to your website and then to mine www.stevequayle.com and just hit terror map.
And there's also the terrorist cities.
You know, one of the things that people need to recognize is that if they're in a major city and they go to the map and they see, hey, this is where these guys are active, These people are, and let me just share this, people have got to understand that when the Middle East triggers, if that is a trigger point, and Saddam or whoever out there in war land decides that, you know, they're going to get hit, then that's probably the best time to be giving a heads up to everyone.
Actually, the heads up should be before that, and that's what we're doing tonight.
But they need to recognize that these type pathogens, viruses if you will, these type things that have been genetically altered in the laboratories of the world's leading bioweapons labs in the former Soviet Union, they're in the hands of these guys and if someone's willing to blow themselves up with TNT, someone's also willing to basically infect themselves and go through.
So I think the Afghanistan story should be really paid attention and Okay, we'll stay on top of that one.
Listen, there's two other things I want to ask you about.
Number one, the lead story this hour is, in the weeks before the September 11 attacks, President Bush was told by U.S.
intelligence that Osama bin Laden's terrorist network might hijack American airplanes, prompting the administration to issue a private warning to federal agencies the White House acknowledged tonight.
Now, they thought they would be perhaps traditional hijackings, but they had that kind of Warning.
And they passed it on privately.
That's the lead story this hour.
And then there's one other in the last day or so.
Frank from Norfolk, Nebraska reminds me to please ask you what you know about this Mexican truck that was stolen at gunpoint on Friday with 96 barrels of sodium cyanide.
And apparently Fox News Uh, reported the FBI has admitted that this has occurred, and if they should get this cyanide, this sodium cyanide, into the U.S., what would it mean?
Well, first of all, cyanide, incredibly poisonous.
I mean, that's the obvious thing.
And 96 barrels of their 50-gallon drums, you know, that's quite a bit of cyanide.
It certainly is.
The thing is, is that, again, what most people don't understand is that the terrorists, you know, I mean, we were told, Art, that, you know, hijackings of trucks were our number one priority on the FBI's list.
The point that people need to understand is if that gets into the water system, if it gets into a situation where a ventilation system, you know, cyanide basically is going to have to be put into some kind of a medium that they can disperse it.
And I think that the interesting thing here in dealing with the sodium cyanide story is the fact that it's already, in my opinion, probably been dispersed when I say not set out into the public.
What about food, Stephen?
Oh, absolutely, and let's talk about that because the most vulnerable area in the United States for a biological terrorist attack or an agricultural terrorist attack is the very food, the production capabilities, for instance, dairies, every place that food is handled, even supermarkets.
Art, one guy with his death wish, you know, can basically go through and infect a whole supermarket.
And if the stories in the press are openly saying, look, we've got a real problem here with the vulnerability of our food chain to terrorism.
That was a big story last week.
A really big story.
Right.
People have got to take heads up getting to the, you know, the whole issue of agricultural terrorism.
And the water situation, you know, as water becomes more difficult to get, you know, the drought that's pretty much hitting us now in various parts of the country, I think people have just got to understand that they can no longer go through life Basically, you know, just saying, well that's over there, or that's over there, or that's here or there, but it's not right now in my backyard.
It can be in their backyard.
The drought, Stephen, is a big under-told story right now.
There are beginning to be some stories, but believe me, this country is experiencing an extremely serious drought.
Emergencies are being called every day in new places.
And it's under-reported.
We're in a serious drought.
We are.
And just the seismic activity.
San Francisco yesterday, up in Oregon today, a 4.2 earthquake.
But people can't equate earthquakes with the changing availability of water in the underground aquifers.
And one of the things that people monitor is not only the temperature of the well, but the water levels in their well.
I can tell you this, not only will a drought be taking place that's going to be just very devastating, but with the seismic activity will come a great displacement of the various water tables, and I think that's what's really going to happen.
Getting to the 9-11 story, that should be tantamount, the biggest wake-up call to this country, that you're not going to be told, unless you know they're listening to coast-to-coast, they're not going to be told, the American people aren't going to be told what's really going on.
The warnings were there.
And the big question that everyone should answer is why were there no airplanes in the sky that day and why, why, according to standard operational procedures of NORAD and the U.S.
Air Defense Command and everything else, why were there no aircraft when there were plenty of time to intercept those aircraft from the time they knew that the distress calls were made?
See, this thing about what the White House knew, in my opinion, It's going to get to be a bigger and bigger story.
It could be one of those, yes.
Yeah, and again, just saying all that, saying this is, you know, I've told people if they'll do their homework, they'll pass the test, okay?
If they fail to do their homework, and becoming aware of these different biological agencies, different threats, these different areas that they need to be concerned about, and just go through life taking everything for granted, A discontinuous event like what you're going through in your life.
Yeah, but you know, Steve, Steven, I was just about to say, look, I do all the right things.
I have well water, I have air purifiers with ozone and something else, I forget, you know, but I mean, I take probably more than the average precautions.
And I no more understood this was going to hit me than the man in the moon.
This came out of absolutely nowhere.
Boom!
Just like that.
And a person has to go on with their daily life.
And the best way to do that, you said a couple things that are interesting.
First of all, when you're in the military, you receive all kinds of vaccinations, correct?
Correct, yes.
And as you've traveled, you also came down... Did you come down with malaria?
Were they treating you with... No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Are you preemptively taking that?
Preemptively taking it.
I think once a day, three... Oh, it was a horrible pill.
Once a day for three weeks to travel to Africa, but that's just preemptive.
Right.
Well, I guess what I'm saying is I wanted to use that as an example.
Everybody's immune system is different, okay?
And I think that, you know, I don't know your immune system or your wife's immune system, but obviously, the thing, when you do everything you can do, you know, the nice thing is you're still alive, okay?
Yeah, and I mean that's a blessing.
I view it that way.
Yeah, and the thing that I think people need to recognize is that, you know, each one of us can do the best we can with our health.
Our body's a fantastic thing, you know.
I'm understanding all of that, but Steven, you still have to live your life every day.
You come into contact with people, you walk around, you get in sandstorms, whatever it is, you know, that you encounter.
And so if something is let loose, Steven, there's not going to be Really, any defense?
Well, forgive me, and I would say this... And if there is, tell me what it is.
In other words, this is going to hit you before you know what hit you.
Boom!
It hits you.
Well, I guess what I'm saying is that in anticipation of that, you still have, of the 18 people that are infected, Right now, the British, let's just use them as a case.
Okay, sure.
Two of them are, let's face it, they've been given their, you know, they're getting out of this planet papers.
It kind of sounds that way.
Yeah, but so 16 are still alive, okay, and the 16 are in different shape.
I can only say this, it's the body's immune system, and I think that the best defense, and please, we can only do what we can do, and you do more than most, but the thing that we've got to do is remember that each person's system responds differently
and by building up your immune system and you know you probably have people on
your show that are experts on that you know the bottom line is people can begin to take
that's a very proactive measure you know in other words stay healthy
but so I'm all for that but I mean if you were you said yourself a little while ago Steven that they've
been developing for years and years Russians have been developing all kinds
of nasty little bugs and they're probably loose and in all kinds of
hands right now Right.
Nobody's immune system is ready for that stuff.
No, but let me share this still, still, and Art, this is what's so, I guess, ominous about talking about this stuff, because you're going to have a A lethal rate, in other words, how many people will die being exposed to each one of the different pathogens.
Right.
But it isn't a hundred percent, okay?
Right.
Never a hundred percent.
Sure.
It's just like the old, so the thing that I guess I'm saying, you know, I told when I was on with George last week, I think it was, that it was somebody like one of the famous golfers, Tom Weiskopf, or somebody said he never got sick when he quit shaking hands, he ceased to get sick.
And, uh, the point that I'm saying is even, even the basic hygiene, you know, I mean, no, you go, you go into, uh, public restrooms, you go into public places, you can't not go those places.
But, you know, we take, uh, like our hands for granted, you know, you can buy that alcohol junk and wipe your hands.
And I know that that sounds almost simplistic, but I'm saying, look, we do the best we can.
We can do the possible.
We believe God to do the impossible.
And then the rest is up for information.
In other words, you live in the desert.
You live, you know, in a very small community.
You're obviously not in the middle of Las Vegas.
And the thing is, is that given every precaution you've taken, still you've come down with
something but you're still alive.
And please, you know, that's the great news, okay?
But there are other people who absolutely, you know, do nothing and unfortunately it
seems like it's either the very young or the elderly or someone with a suppressed immune
Well, I was about to say, if I had been either very young or very elderly, I don't think I would have made it through this at all.
Not a chance.
And the other thing, you know, that we've got to talk about is the taboo.
You know, we've been continually bombarded.
With, quote, testing of the, you know, chemtrails and the skies and stuff.
And people can deny that all they want, but it's real.
Yes.
And not only that, is that the immune suppression of barium and aluminum and diethylene bromide and some of the different substances that are found in the chemtrail sprays, you know.
I mean, no offense, but if the EPA says they're carcinogenic and they're, you know, a level 4 carcinogen, meaning you can't get any worse than that.
I don't think they should be spraying that stuff on us.
I'm with you.
I'm certainly with you there.
But again, you know... You know what?
We've got to prove it.
Yep.
And that's the thing, but let me share...
When again, knowledge is really important and that's why I wrote the book Breathe No Evil.
I list all of the different biologicals that we know of, okay?
Obviously what I don't know of, I don't know of.
But the point is, as people read a book such as Breathe No Evil, they can get a feel for what the different symptoms are, what the different incubation periods are.
And that's one thing that's not coming out of the story in Britain either, is the fact that if this were bacterial and they could blame it on the water, blame it on the food or something, then the point is, is that it would not have been contagious, number one.
And number two, by the time that it was first found, and by the way, the one Afghan that was treated in that hospital was almost 14 days ago, so you gotta rule him out.
Just because of incubation period times and stuff.
So the point is, is that if you know these things, then you can, you know, like you said, I know what I don't have.
And part of addressing what you do have is getting rid of everything else.
You know, all those things that cause you the pain and worry and fear.
Because when you start seeing your temperature and you start hearing about big C cancer and all that stuff, that starts to play with your mind.
Oh, yeah.
Especially when you have a high fever.
Especially when you have a high fever.
And I mean, you know, you were talking about being delirious.
Unless someone's been at 104 or 105, they don't know what, you know, true delirium is, you know?
And I think that that's why I would like to encourage people, you know, to acquire the information and, you know, again, that's why I wrote Breathe No Evil.
And for those who aren't on the Internet, by the way, they can get that by calling us at 1-800-424-7870.
1-800-424-7870.
I always get people sending me letters saying, hey, I don't have a computer.
It's true.
There is a link on my website to both your website and your book.
But in the meantime, that phone number again, 1-800-424-7870.
4-2-4-7-8-7-0.
And it's called Breathe.
How did you come up with that title?
Breathe No Evil.
That's a good title.
Well, I thought it was a great title because, you know, we always hear of hear no evil, speak no evil, see no evil.
And when I was contemplating this whole thing, it was obvious that if they're going to, they meaning the people that want to lower the population of the earth to about 5.5 billion, if they want to knock off 5.5 billion, lower it to 500 million, You know, the way, in my opinion, in my overview, is they would have to use biologicals, and that's why breathing no evil, and so... All right, listen, my friend, we're out of time, but take your own advice, stay healthy, breathe no evil.
And it's nice to have you back.
Good night.
Good night, Stephen.
Stephen Quayle.
I'm Art Bell.
Coming up, the father of remote viewing, Ingo Swann, along with Paul H. Smith.
I'm Art Bell.
Stay right where you are.
on the east side of chicago back in the usa back in the bad old days
in the heat of a summer night in the land of the dollar bill
when the town of chicago oh my god oh no oh no
i remember don't worry how could i ever forget it's the first time
i know the reason why you came inside and saw no beautiful me who the hell doesn't show
But the pain still grows, so strong as you and me I'm the wind coming in at night
Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nigh From West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255
East of the Rockies 1-800-825-5033 First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222
And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295 To recharge on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
From the high desert in the middle of the night.
Good morning, everybody.
Coming up in just a moment, the father of remote viewing, the Honorable Ingo Swann, along with Paul H. Smith.
Paul was in the military program for several years.
So these two distinguished gentlemen, uh, coming up next.
Stay right there.
Ingo Swann. All of you should know Ingo Swann, just in case you don't.
He was born in the Colorado Rockies, September 14th of 1933.
Ingo earned, in 1955, a BA degree in biology, after which, in Korea, he served on the staff of the Commander of the Pacific Forces.
In 1958, accepted a position at the UN, where he worked in varying capacities until 1969.
In 70, he entered a full-time parapsychological and psychoenergetics research program, becoming an acknowledged innovative researcher in these frontier sciences.
Swan is also an artist of some renown.
His works have been collected by the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum.
Today Ingo Swann is internationally known as an advocate and researcher of the exceptional powers of the human mind and as a leading figure in governmental and scientific projects to investigate and identify the scope of subtle human perceptions.
His involvement in governmental research projects required the discovery of innovative approaches toward the actual realizing of subtle human energies He views PSI powers as only a part of the larger spectrum of human sensing systems.
As advances are made in mapping the human genome, in genetic manipulation, in cybernetic mind-machine interfaces, and the invention of increasingly smart, smarter machines, he predicts that broad strategic interest in exceptional human powers will emerge as a matter of operational Importance.
Underline operational importance.
He is the author of 11 books.
Some have been translated into German, Polish, Dutch, Japanese, Turkish, and French.
As I said earlier, regarded as the father of the entire remote viewing program in the U.S.
Paul Smith, also with us tonight, served for seven years In the U.S.
government's remote viewing program at Fort Meade, Maryland from September of 83 to August of 1990.
During 1984 he became one of only a handful of government personnel to be personally trained as coordinate remote viewers by Ingo Swann at SRI International.
Paul was the primary author of the government RV program CRV training manual That's right, they actually came up with a manual, served as theory instructor for new CRV trainee personnel, as well as recruiting officer and unit security officer.
He is credited with over a thousand training and operational remote viewing sessions during his time with the unit at Fort Meade.
Two very distinguished gentlemen.
Ingo Swann and Paul H. Smith.
Gentlemen, welcome.
Ingo, are you there?
Yes, sir.
Good, and Paul?
Yes, I'm here too.
Great to have you both on the program once again.
It's good to be here.
Hard to know where to begin with the two of you, but let's actually begin.
With the ending of the whole government remote viewing program.
I'm so extremely interested.
I've heard many stories about how and why it ended.
Most involved politics and embarrassment to the military and that sort of thing.
But you were in it.
You must have seen the end coming.
What can you two tell me about it?
It's your ball, Paul.
The ball?
You were there.
Well, I was on the periphery anyway.
I had by that time, of course, been transferred on to other jobs in the government, but I kept in touch with the people of the unit and I dropped in quite frequently.
I really didn't know so much what was going on then as what I found out afterwards about it.
Okay.
You know, it's still pretty much the story of embarrassment and skeptics and high places and that sort of thing, but what's got my interest lately, I'm finishing up the final chapters of the book I'm writing, and in the process I have to address this.
What actually happened to the program?
Why did the CIA terminate it?
And in the process I've had to go through their report.
commissioned this organization called the American Institute for Research.
We read through this report and see that they accuse parapsychology and remote viewing of
being bad science to some extent.
Their report itself is very bad science.
They didn't do a very good job and it seems that there is a hidden political agenda there
to get rid of the program.
To me it seems almost irresponsible that they would dispose of something that had actually
done some good for American national security.
Let's discuss that aspect of it.
How much good had it actually done?
What was the record of the program at the time that it got chopped?
Well, the first thing to acknowledge is that it didn't work all the time.
And there were times when it didn't work.
When it did work, it was very useful.
I'll give you a good example.
It's actually kind of a series, an ongoing epic, when we did a bunch of work against the counter-narcotics problem.
This was in the late 80s, early 90s, when narcotics were flooding in the United States.
We'd organized two joint task forces of military personnel.
Working with local law enforcement is kind of an unprecedented sort of thing.
Oh, the drug war was really cranking.
It really was.
A lot of money going into it.
And someone with a little imagination said, well, why don't we get these guys involved and see what they can do?
And in fact, during the trial period, which was basically calendar year 1990, we worked literally hundreds of projects against, you know, counter narcotics kinds of things.
Can you give me a specific example?
the things that we work that the Coast Guard and the local enforcement could actually address.
You know, we worked on many more things that they had the resources sent to them. They
didn't have enough cutters.
Can you give me a specific example? I mean, for example, were you in a situation where
you were telling them, look, there is a boat located approximately at the following coordinates
or whatever that's got a load of cocaine or a plane coming in that's going to land at
Here's where we think it's going to land.
What were you doing exactly?
Let me give you one example.
There was a large amount of contraband that was missing.
It was known to be hidden on a certain island.
I won't go into great details because I'm not sure exactly how sensitive it still is.
Uh, it was known to be on a certain island in the Caribbean.
And, but they didn't know, have any idea where.
And so they tasked the remote viewing unit to describe, uh, the situation in which the contraband was and, and provide a location if at all possible.
And in fact, and I have this from one of the operators, not one of the remote viewers or anything.
This is what he said, essentially, that, uh, you remote viewers described the location Under a boulder, described the wrappings of the drugs, exactly, and even gave, on a diagram of the island, even gave, two of us gave the exact location of where the boulder was that the narcotics were hidden under.
Wow.
And he says, that really got my attention.
Mm-hmm, that would get my attention too.
Now, this discipline, remote viewing, was, I guess, Ingo, you're a natural psychic, aren't you?
I started out that way.
I was told... You know, I am, as Dr. Puthoff and I and others discovered what could be trained and what should be trained, I got trained too.
He was my trainer.
I'm a hybrid, a mixture of natural and trained.
Do the two of you agree on the following?
I know there's some controversy about this.
Does an exceptional natural psychic like Ingo Swann make a better remote viewing candidate or a better person to be trained for remote viewing or one that perhaps is not as good?
Well, There are several answers to that.
What would yours be?
Well, it depends on the ego of the natural psychic.
A lot depends on that.
And they have already developed their whatever it is they've developed and they believe in it.
And they don't like the idea that somebody can Train them to do better for some reason.
It's a very curious response.
But if they wanted to be trained, they'd probably make a good trained remote viewer.
That's a good answer.
That's a good answer.
You know, people have to want to do it.
We found that people should be reasonably intelligent and not slow learners.
But we had one slow learner who it just took more time to train.
Who got the gist of it very well after a time.
So if you want to, then that's a good place to start.
It doesn't matter if you're a natural psychic or not.
At what point in your life, Ingo, did you realize that you had psychic ability?
At two.
Two years of age?
Yes.
Gosh, Ingo, I hardly... Well, it got me in a lot of trouble, you know.
I began As they say, manifesting phenomena that you aren't supposed to manifest in those days.
Of what sort?
Oh, clairvoyance.
Seeing auras around people and telling them a little bit here and there, what's that?
What are these butterfly lights flying around and stuff like that?
And then there was past lives that I would start to talk about and things.
And most, there's a high incidence of this among children, but they're usually socially trained to Repress it or something like that is I never really did
because My maternal grandmother was a great supporter of this stuff
and so I got into my teenage years before I really stopped fiddling with it and
Had to be 38 and volunteer to for psychic research before it came out again
How much of a problem at the time you began your training was your ego?
I don't have one.
Ask Paul.
Is that right, Paul?
He has no ego?
He has no ego whatsoever, no.
We never encountered that the whole time.
I have a temper and can insist on my way and a few things, but other than that I'm a very nice person.
So, honestly, asking again, ego was not a problem.
You didn't You didn't really have to learn to suppress... It wasn't a problem to me.
It might have been to others.
Uh-huh.
So you made a very easy transition then with your talents into a more disciplined use of your talent.
Well, when I first started, I volunteered to work in three labs in 1970 and I thought well you know this will take one or two months and then it'll be all over with and I get back to doing what I want to do which was write a best-selling novel at the time.
But it just kept on going and by 1972 I was invited to go to SRI by Dr. Putoff,
whom I'd like to say something about at some point here.
Oh, please go right ahead.
Government agencies were involved and it was very woo-woo and hush-hush
and declared secret and in the national interest and everything.
So it really didn't go away in two or three months and I just kept following along.
So in other words, there you were in the lab and Dr. Puthoff was testing you and the government at that point became involved.
Do you remember when they first walked in or when they walked in and got you involved?
They first walked in so I was told to the American Society of Psychical Research and two guys came and started asking questions about me.
And Mrs. Knipe, who was the director up there at the time, eventually told me about it.
But they swore her to secrecy.
So their interest began before I went to put off an SRI.
And in fact, I had a couple other friends who had been approached just after World War II.
Some men came by and wanted a list of psychics that they could interview and things like that.
So at some level, government interest goes back a ways.
Ingo, do you know offhand how high the official interest came from?
In other words, obviously orders were coming from some place to begin watching you and others like yourself
and to begin following what you were doing.
I wonder how high up that interest came from.
I don't know.
Well, I was easy to spot because I've made headline news in the media.
I mean, I wasn't hard to find, but I think that heights of interest is probably not ever going to be determined really well, because these guys back then, and probably even now, remember back in 1972, skepticism in the scientific and mainstream communities against this kind of stuff was really high.
And people lost their jobs if they reflected even an interest in it and things like that.
So a lot went on and we'll never know about it because it was all cloaked in official or unofficial secrecy.
Well, it had to be fairly high.
I mean, to begin moving CIA assets, it had to be at some fairly high level.
Otherwise, some lower-level bureaucrat, even within the CIA, surely would be risking his job, or her job.
Well, there was resistance even... There was resistance everywhere.
I believe that the research aspect of remote viewing was terminated for a very strange reason, if you'd like me to tell you about it.
I certainly would.
As we went through our discovery process about what could be trained, which by the way is not psychic abilities, it's just awareness and perception that can be trained and everybody's got that, we began to discover If we say signals can be trained, you can become aware of signals that are telepathic in nature.
And so in 1984 and 85, these began to enter into the documentation of what we were researching and things like that.
What kind of signals?
Telepathic.
Nobody wants people to read minds.
And I know this for a fact that Telepathy shall not exist, even if it does, because then there really are no secrets.
You know, you can have a secret building somewhere, but if you have telepathy, you don't have any secret minds inside of you.
You know, you're telling me something really new tonight.
Well, it's not new to me, and I've said it many times, but in fact, my two volumes on power discuss it a great deal.
Sociologically speaking, the greatest fear in the world are adequate telepaths.
Oh, yeah, of course.
If you step back and look at that, you can see why that is.
Very quickly and easily, sure.
But, I mean, how did that begin to enter into the reports?
You began to, what, give reports of specific people and what they were thinking?
Well, it wasn't that clear cut at the time.
Putoff was the designer, the major designer of what we were going to do.
And he transferred the whole research aspect away from parapsychology and psychic phenomena over to information theory.
and in 1976 I believe it was or 75 Putoff and Targ published read a paper before the IEEE
about the discovery of a channel that people have that can input information into their consciousness.
All right, hold it right there, Ingo.
Ingo Swann is my guest along with Paul Smith and we're discussing remote viewing with a man who would know most about it.
I'm Art Bell.
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Caesar don't fear the Reaper.
Nor do the wind, the sun, or the rain.
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Baby, take my hand.
Don't fear the Reaper.
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Don't fear the Reaper.
Baby, I'm your man.
To reach Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nigh, from west of the Rockies, dial 1.
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This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
My guests are Ingo Swann, the father of remote viewing, and Paul H. Smith in that program.
CIA program for years and years, uh, and what we're hearing, at least for me, is brand new tonight.
I had no idea.
I knew about the politics with regard to the end of the remote viewing program.
I knew about the politics and the, you know, the embarrassment and the, uh, the skeptics and all the rest of it, but I never knew about the telepathy.
Uh, that's what Ingo said, that a channel opened.
Absolutely fascinating stuff.
A channel opened.
This I have not heard before.
And you know, if there really was a telepath, if there really was somebody capable of reading minds, I honestly wonder how long our government, fully aware of what they could do, could let them live.
Don't you?
Get right back to our guests.
Once again, here's Ingo Swan and Paul H. Smith.
Ingo, just to finish up, this really is news to me.
I had no idea that there were reported openings of channels.
Can you elaborate?
I mean, were you reading the minds of military people or just unknown minds or channels to what?
Well, don't mistake the word channel for channelers.
Right.
No, I am not.
In information theory, information theory doesn't refer to meaning of anything.
It refers to the clarity of a channel that carries the information.
So you have noisy channels and you have not noisy channels.
And our discovery process during the SRI period was to Deal with the channels and the noise in them so we could get more signal, clear signal.
There are two kinds of signals, it turns out, and one is the first kind is based in physicality.
Like, you can remove your building and say, okay, there's a building there and it has some stuff in it and things like that.
And you can see how this is functioning.
If you went to this place, you could see there was a building, right?
Sure.
But what are the people inside of it doing?
You know, you can have all kinds of buildings, but you don't know exactly what they're doing inside of it.
And the doing part, well, this is a mental thing.
This belongs to the mind, and so we can call the physical signals as tangible information, information about tangible factors.
But what people are doing and what they're thinking and what their goals and motivations are is not physical.
No.
It's mental.
Yes.
It's when you begin to get mental information in a trained remote viewing session you're actually beginning to deal in telepathy because that's the distinction between Physical clairvoyance over physical remote viewing.
Well, and when you began to report these sorts of... Yes.
...this kind of input, then I take it the reception to that was not good.
Well, we sort of had more serious visitors coming out to SRI to see what exactly all this implied, you see.
Yes, I did.
And pretty soon everybody knew what it implied, and I have a cute little story.
If I can tell it, I had to go to the bathroom one day so I went in the men's room and was installed.
Two guys, two visitors as we used to call them, walked in and one was raving about what progress had been made and the other one said, yes, but you know they're going to be able to read our minds before too long.
And I knew that that was probably going to be the end of our project at which it was.
And the discovery process of this, I think, was almost certain that it was ended because of this new threat, as it would have been called.
All right.
All that being said, and this is a question for the both of you, with buildings coming down and thousands dying in New York and the Pentagon on September 11th, and now the bioterror worries and cyanide in Mexico, and my God, it's coming at us from all directions.
And to some degree, we don't have a clue.
I would think that this would be the ideal, ideal application for what that program was doing.
Gentlemen?
Well, I said this.
I was asked to write sort of a paper after the World Trade Center came down, which, by the way, I watched from my roof here in New York.
Terrible, terrible day.
And I was going to have to say in this paper, which I decided not to produce, that we really needed telepathy at that point, right?
To even get a handle on this.
But we didn't have it anymore, because after the Soviet Union threat about this kind of research ceased, There was no need at the government level to pursue it anymore.
So, yeah, we could have used it, but we didn't have it at the time.
Paul, you saw the end of this coming, or at least you were in touch with the people who saw the end of this coming, right?
Yep.
Do you concur with Ingo with regard to the telepathy aspect of it?
Well, of course, Ingo had a part of the picture I didn't have and I had a part that he didn't have at the time.
And I didn't know, well, I of course knew about that development because I was being taught how to do that, how to, you know, get intentions and things such as that from people at the target location that you might be remote viewing.
So I knew about the technology and it worked quite well.
We had some very interesting results.
It began to work quite well.
Okay.
Within the limits of how far it had developed, it worked quite well.
And of course, it didn't occur to me or my colleagues at the time that there would be any kind of a concern of the food chain about that.
But, you know, we were busy with our work and we were really wrapped up in this.
Ingo, of course, had more of a focus on the outside politics of it than we did.
But, you know, when you think about it after the fact, what a powerful thing that is.
Be able to get that kind of information.
Dangerous.
Yes.
Dangerous.
It would be viewed as dangerous.
I would think, you know, and maybe I've seen too many movies, but gee whiz, our government is based on secrets, thrives on secrets, can't exist without secrets, and if they thought all of that was in jeopardy, particularly by one or two or three or ten men, I wouldn't give you two cents for their lives.
And did that occur to any of you?
Well, it didn't occur to us down in the trenches, but it clearly occurred to a few other folks, like Ingo.
Well, it was really funny in one way, you know.
By the way, it's not just our government who exists on secrets.
The whole world exists on secrets.
Absolutely.
And no matter at what level of activity you're at, there's got to be a secret, because that's the only way to try to get advantages over anything or anybody and things like that.
That's a big part of what kind of research should go on in these areas, and what kind shouldn't.
You know, beginning in 1821, René Walcolier in France published his first book on telepathy.
And he went on up until, I don't know, the 60s before he died, and he made a tremendous statement about, not only about the existence of telepathy, but about its signal-to-noise ratio, even.
And, uh, this is a very, very important segment of work.
Unfortunately, it resided in French for years, and, uh, still mostly does.
But, um, his work was, you know, when it really came to the issue of, can this be applied somehow, um, he was cut off at the pass, just like all other telepathy researchers have been.
But why?
When we face a national threat of the magnitude we face right now, bio, nuclear, whatever it's going to be, it's almost impossible to believe that our government would not utilize every single tool that it can, just as the police, when they finally get exasperated, tend to go to psychics.
In my opinion, they will not tolerate developmental telepathy.
They'll risk everything.
Well, that's a big harsh statement, but that's certainly been my experience.
You know, I'm not a baby in this anymore, you know.
I know.
The conference coming up that Paul's going to talk about is celebrating the 30th anniversary of remote viewing, 30 years of it.
And for whatever reason, I was mostly thrown into the middle of it throughout that time and helped put off innovative approaches to Making a clear signal channel versus the noisy signal channel.
And you end up encountering information that's not tangible and beginning to deal in that.
And although you might not recognize telepathy within those contexts, it still amounts to telepathy.
Well, those who were the gatherers of this information obviously recognized the areas into which you were beginning to move.
Even if those who participated didn't recognize it, I guess once, you know, if you're in a position to put all the pieces of the puzzle together, all the information bits that come to you separately, you realize that you've just walked into something that is potentially dangerous to you.
Well, the way, you know, there's been a, in a historical context, which a lot of people have really gone into, Mind reading has always been not really tolerated throughout history.
So there's a big historical background to that and you're right.
Everybody runs, in this government, everybody's whatever runs on secrecy.
And you can be psychic or a trained remote viewer and you can talk about buildings and rocks that have drugs hidden underneath it and this and that and everything.
And people would consider that useful in the way they operate.
But mind reading means you're going to read not only the minds of the people at the target sites, but you can read minds, period.
And you know, things come to a screeching halt at that point while they consider the implications, and the implications are too terrible to consider.
So, that becomes more important than any potential national security problem.
Personal interests, or organized interests, vested interests, are always going to be more important than anything.
Everybody has skeletons, everybody has secrets.
Right.
It amounts to that.
So, suddenly breaking up the official program and casting you all off on your own, then, allows them to sort of Suddenly, then, you can be treated just as any other psychic might be, with no added weight given to anything you might say, and so they allow you to live, in a sense, because you just become part of the greater noise.
Is that...?
That's right.
Well, yeah.
That's a very good way of putting it.
Reduce it back to noise, in other words.
I mean, the heck with the channels and clearing them up and making them more...
More healthy to convey information, that ends up in really some spectacular remote viewing as far as physicality is concerned.
But if you don't want some research to proceed, you know, without making any issue of it at all, you just let it reduce itself back to noise.
You take away the support of it and then it gets back to Well, gentlemen, we're a nation pretty concerned right now about the other shoe coming down.
Biologically, from a nuclear point of view, soft targets, hard targets, we're getting all these warnings from the government.
Do either one or both of you have any knowledge of what we might be facing?
Are you asking me?
I'm asking anybody who wants to answer.
I didn't hear Paul jump up here.
Personally, I think it's a good idea to bring these contacts to public attention.
Because the public in general hopes somebody's controlling things somewhere and taking care of things.
That's right.
And they don't want to be bothered with these things.
But these are issues which we really do need to be educated in right down to the grassroots level.
But in my opinion, which doesn't mean anything really, these threats are probably not as big, are not going to turn out to be as big.
As the threat appears.
Because, you know, if you release nuclear radiation or bio-bombs and all of that stuff, it's going to just go around the planet like mad.
And everybody's going to suffer, including the propagators.
Well, that hasn't stopped those who blow themselves up in Israel.
You know, there is such a thing as social conditioning.
You can condition people to do that.
But that's...
You know, as horrendous as it is using kids as living bombs and things like that, it still is not a nuclear threat or a biological threat.
Have either one of you done specific remote viewing with regard to the danger we face now?
I have not.
I have not either.
Intentionally, or have you considered doing it and decided not to?
And if so, for what reason?
Well, nobody's asked me to do it, and then I've I'm retired, Mr. Bell.
I'm retired and nobody's asked anybody to do anything like this that I know of with respect to those kind of issues and things like that.
But then I'm out of the loops and I'm getting old.
I think what Ingo said, though, is important.
Nobody asked him to do it.
I mean, that's the same case with me.
There's a few folks out there in the remote viewing community who said they have been asked to do things.
It seems probably by individual FBI or CIA agents or whatever.
The fact is, it really doesn't accomplish anything to do it on your own.
You know, you could be the best remote viewer in the world, produce accurate information, do a session on your own, But then trying to get it accepted into the system is very difficult.
Generally, they won't accept it unless it's their idea to attach in the first place.
I see.
I see.
Well, there is about to be a remote viewing conference.
I think it's what, June 14th through the 16th in Austin, Texas.
That's interesting.
We have a lot of listeners in Austin, and I want to tell everybody, if they'd like to be part of it, we've got a phone number.
Uh, which is, uh, toll-free 866... Am I right?
Is it toll-free?
Yeah, toll-free.
Okay.
866-374-4782.
That's 866-374-4782.
Uh, or of course, uh, on the web at www.rvconference.org.
We've got a, uh, a link up on my website.
So if you're in the Austin area, or even down in that part of Texas, you're going to want to look into this.
But, I mean, this is a place where A lot of you all get together, right?
Yep.
And of course this year we're very pleased that Ingo is going to be our main speaker.
There's a lot of excitement about that.
As you just heard, he's got a lot to say.
A lot of things to say that people haven't heard before.
Obviously.
So we're all excited about that.
In fact, we have people, a lot of people, from the early days of remote viewing
doing that haven't spoken in public very extensively at all that are going to be here.
We even have Cleve Baxter who is really the kind of, I guess you could say yenta that got Ingo together with Hal Puthoff.
Yeah, Cleve Baxter.
That's his lab that I started in doing experiments in 1970 when he was here in New York.
In those early experiments, Ingo, what were you able to demonstrate that got everybody so hot?
Cleve Baxter was, you know, he's a lie detector.
He had a lie detection school.
He's one of America's leading lie detecting experts.
But, you know, you do your job and you get bored with it, so you do something else to enjoy it.
So he was hooking plants up to his lie detectors And he found that plants would respond to negative thoughts.
If a human came in and he would say, OK, this plant's hooked up.
Now light a match and think that you're going to burn the plant.
And his lie detector would start showing activity in the plants, you know.
And there was a guy in lie detecting who was experimenting with human-to-plant telepathy at that period.
The scientific community just ridiculed him like mad, because they said, plants don't have nervous systems that can send signals.
And he was actually vindicated in 1992, when people discovered that at least tomato plants could send danger warnings to, not only to their own plant systems, but to neighboring plant systems too, if a caterpillar got on them and started eating.
And so, Cleve, Did that at Cleve's place for a while and then he said that I think I could influence a solid object and change its electric potential shift.
And so he put some oxygen in a tube, you know that oxygen in a tube is compressed oxygen and if it gets slightly warmer or colder then its electric potential changes.
Yes.
And so we did that, and that was successful.
And you were able to, what, change it?
I'll tell you what.
Hold on.
We're at the top of the hour.
Both of you hold tight.
We'll be right back.
I'm Art Bell.
That would be me.
I'm trying to get myself ashore Ingo Swann and Paul Smith are here and we'll be right back
For so long Listening to the strangest stories
Wondering where it all went wrong For so long
For so long The Strangest Stories of All Time
The Strangest Stories of All Time The Strangest Stories of All Time
Out on the street I was talking to a man He said there's so much for this love of mine
That I don't understand You shouldn't worry I said that ain't no crime
Cause if you get it wrong you'll get it right next time that that that that that that
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First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First-time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
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To reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nye.
My guests are two of the best.
Ingo Swann, regarded as the father of remote viewing.
Now retired, gracing our airwaves this morning, along with Paul H. Smith, who was in the CIA program, Remote Viewing Program, for any number of years, quite some number of years.
And we'll get right back to them.
Alright, once again, honored with the presence of Ingo Swann and Paul H. Smith.
Gentlemen, I've been watching very closely Other work going on at Princeton University.
And I've indulged some probably pretty dangerous experiments myself with the audience.
But what occurred with Princeton was rather interesting.
They had these computers, you know, scattered around the world, which they called eggs.
And these eggs would report back to the master computer at Princeton, and they would watch world events.
And they would take the reports from these random number generators, these computers placed at different physical locales around the world.
And, oh my God, if you look at the graph, for example, on September 11th, you'll find that four hours prior to the event, the graph began to go off the chart.
The graph went off the chart when the event occurred, and then trailed off for the next several hours after that.
Now, That in itself, of course, is pretty interesting stuff.
These random number generators began to get somewhat non-random.
More and more non-random.
The more non-random they'd become, the higher the graph would go.
Incredible experiment, and it turns out they've been doing this for some time.
What do you think?
What would your best guess, either one of you, be?
What is that graph measuring?
Well, I'll let Ingo talk first, because I'm kind of curious to know what he has to say.
I'm not completely up to snuff on that experiment.
I do know that it occurred.
But you know, it actually, at least part of the basis for this kind of effect has to come from the concept that everything is interconnected.
Yes, sir.
And that Even within the electromagnetic spectrum and or other kind of spectrums that energy spectrums that haven't been discovered since it's such as group mind phenomena that if everything's interconnected then everything shows divergence from a random path when things are getting ready to happen.
I mean you know if you're interconnected then well for instance even in remote viewing That you can train awareness and attention to become more specifically aware of signals that have to do with a distant site.
That's the type of interconnection that we're experiencing all the time at a very subconscious level.
They're very weak signals.
But there's enough of these weak signals that take place that it affects even machines like delicate computers and things like that.
Yes.
I mean, wouldn't these results, and the fact this has been going on for some time now, tend to underscore what you'd all do as telepaths, remote viewers?
Absolutely, absolutely.
It seems to me like it's all coming from the same totality of a non-locality.
That's right.
Right?
That's right.
These are called non-locality experiments.
You know, um, what's his name?
Oh, I can't think of his name at this late date.
I'm getting old, you know.
Dean Radin?
Is that what you were thinking of?
Huh?
Dean Radin?
No, I'm talking about, um... Um... Oh.
Well, anyhow, I'll find his book here, and I'll give you the name in a second.
But, yeah, you've... Mr. Bell, you have a completely right idea.
And if everything's connected, then you find that on significant surges within everything that's interconnected that, well, it's like in Star Wars, there's the force out there and there can be ripples in the force, right?
Oh yes, yes.
And ripples in the force will affect even highly designed sensitive equipment.
Well, yes, exactly.
But here's one thing suggested from this.
Since the spikes began to go off the chart four hours prior to the event... Oh, yes.
...is the nature... Now, remote viewing, as I understand it, is not sensitive to time.
Present, future, past, it's all mixed together, yes?
No, it is sensitive to time.
We found in our experiments at SRI really quite early on I'll tell you a cute little story.
Alright.
You know, Hella Hammond was one of the natural psychics that worked at S.R.I.
for a long time.
She was really a wonderful person, you know.
and she was taking part in what we call the outbound experimenter type of thing
where some people were going to go to an undisclosed place and when they got there she was supposed to tell them
things about where they were at, right?
Mm-hmm.
So one day, I put off and Targ came to my office and said, Hela's really bored with these experiments
and she says she already knows what the target's going to be.
Oh, really?
And what should they do?
And I says, well, I mean, if Hela says it, do it, you know?
So they did this experiment with her.
Then they got in their car and then they drove two miles away.
And then they opened the envelope to tell them where they were supposed to go.
And when they went there, it was the place Hella had described.
So she knew the target ahead of time?
Well, she didn't know it, but she said she had an appointment that she wanted to go to.
You know, she was a good photographer and she was giving a show at Stanford and things.
So she said, I'll just do it now.
And then you can do your experiment.
So we found, okay, we found that time can be specific, but she did it just like these machines did it.
They started reacting a little while before things went on.
So we found that you could front time an experiment.
I mean, you could say, okay, here is the experiment, what we're interested in.
Is what happened there 1942 or what's going to happen there in the next two hours?
And so we found out that the time did play some kind of a function in going into the past a little bit or going into the future a little bit.
And that was because of Hella Hammett, who had a big ego, by the way, and it could be just as stubborn as I was.
No, these things are all, I mean, the universe is interconnected, and, you know, I mean, people with great standing have been saying this for quite a while in the official sciences, and so it should not be too surprising that somebody could figure out a way to measure this.
Well, here's a leap for you.
Do either one of you gentlemen think it would be possible to inject a concept Into the greater non-locality, into the mass consciousness, to actually inject an idea or a concept into the mass consciousness.
In the 60s, when I was working at the UN, you know, I did a lot of reading.
I was always interested in these things.
And the first thing that I really got interested in reading about was the power of prayer.
And it is the goal of the power of prayer to interject something just like you've described.
That's the big goal of it.
Yes, but does the prayer have to have God as a conduit to be effective?
That, I don't think anybody knows.
Most people are afraid to even ask.
Well, I mean, That's an important issue.
And a loaded question.
And a loaded question.
But you can get around the edges of this anyway by saying, yeah, the power of prayer is to heal.
To interject something into a declining situation that reverses the vector and brings it back to health.
And various things like that.
And that could only happen if, first of all, if interconnectivity did exist.
And that you could interject something into the interconnectedness of all things.
Well, that's exactly what I'm asking.
Now, think of it on a gigantic scale.
The situation in the Middle East, for example.
Deteriorating bad.
Could somebody inject in the mass consciousness, if done correctly, some sort of concept that would have a chance of reversing what otherwise seems to be inevitable?
Well, this is very hypothetical, but I would like to respond, and of course, there are people who know more about the power of prayer than I do.
But, you know, to reverse a situation like that, you have to match the mass in the declining situation with a positive aspect.
So that's a big deteriorating situation there, so you have to have a lot of prayer.
You have to.
In other words, the energy has to be equal to the other energy in order to change it.
Gotcha.
But then, by extension, it's easy to say that the power of many, many minds concentrating on one event or one outcome would be much greater than the power of one mind?
Oh, yes.
That's group prayer.
The power of group prayer.
There's a whole Epic of this interest which took place in the 60s, which has more or less now been forgotten in many ways.
But, you know, holding hands across the United States and, you know, it falls into this category.
Sure it does.
Paul, you agree with all this?
Yeah, well, you know, of course, any time you try and change society and succeed in doing it, it involves affecting thought in the future.
Even when you use conventional means, you're doing that.
Obviously, you can't change something that's already happened, so you're trying to change thought in the future.
If you write a book to persuade people to do something, that's what you're doing in effect.
So it seems that if there's this non, I don't know, I want to say non-physical, but how do we know, you know?
Non-physical means of affecting things, it would also have to project into the future, at least a short, you know, a
certain direction.
You had mentioned the Pear Lab at Princeton.
Yes.
And Ingo mentioned Hillehamid and her precognitive remote viewing, as she called that.
Of course, that's what the Paralab folks used.
They did remote viewing experiments, but they were all precognitive.
They all described the target that was going to be visited in the future.
They described it in the past.
That was their way of having a very clean protocol.
And all this reflects, of course, the consciousness thing with the 9-11 event that you also talked
about, reflects some research that Dean Radin has done on presentiment, where people seem
to have a physiological reaction to disturbing pictures that they're about to see, that they
haven't yet seen, that they don't have with non-disturbing pictures.
So there is something going on here, at least with the immediate future, where I think the
fact that the spike started four hours before the Trade Towers were hit suggests that the
closer you are to the future, that future event, the more likely you are to get some
kind of impact from it.
You mentioned Dean Radin.
Very interesting, because I had Dean on the program, and the reason I had him on is because after I was presented with the information and saw the graphs on the 9-11 event, I just went, oh my God.
And I decided to try and experiment myself, and we had Dean Radin watching some graphs, Sort of unofficially, mind you.
And we did a big mind experiment here on the air in which I told people to actually concentrate on driving these computers into a non-random state.
And, by God, when Dean got the graphs back, they were driven again right off the chart.
And, you know, at that point, I've done these experiments so many times that I I began to get a little scared.
I began to get a little very cautious, and I still feel all of that, a little scared, a little cautious, because I don't know what the hell I'm doing.
Yeah.
Well, and if you think about, extend something Ingo said about having to overcome negative energy, if you can positively affect the future by enough linked minds trying to think the same good thoughts, so to speak.
Yes.
You can do the same thing with negative thoughts.
Well, you know that was going to be my next question.
It's just a force.
I think Ingo compared it to the force.
And the force could be wielded in any way, could it not?
It would seem that way to me.
Do you agree, Ingo?
Can that force be used in a negative way?
Well, you can certainly condition people to think in negative thoughts.
Yes.
And, you know, this whole situation, I mean, we're so inundated with negativity that if people could get a good thought going, more power to them.
By the way, the author that I was a little confused about a little while ago was Rupert Sheldrake, who knows a great deal about interconnectedness.
And I'm sorry, I was Not quite up to stuff on that.
Well, that's quite right.
The concept we were discussing was more important.
That was, is this interconnectivity the same realm that you roam with the discipline of remote viewing, perhaps as what's being measured at Princeton, off into the same realm?
Well, I'd approach this from a different aspect.
If you don't believe things are interconnected, Then you're going to have a tough road to follow.
If you know that things are interconnected, even though you can't explain it and you don't know what you're doing and things like that, then, you know, there are many uplifting books that have been published in the past about this, and if you know things are interconnected, then you, to get the best future results, you think in positive terms.
The Power of Positive Thinking, which was published many, many years ago, and became a best-selling book points this out in the context that he could point it out back then and this is a big issue and you know nobody predicted well I don't know if anybody predicted the World Trade Center or not but I know a lady who did a artwork for Omni magazine
In 1992, it was published in Omni Magazine, and she pictured the World Trade Center towers going to heaven.
And that, to me, is a presentment of that kind of thing.
So I believe that people did sense something was going to happen, but probably not without the clarity that was needed to do anything about it.
You know, Art, I have a question here for Ingo, if I can ask him.
What we're talking about, you know, we talked about the power behind the possibility of reading people's minds.
There's a certain power here.
We have a possibility to change the future, potentially, by linking our minds together and working towards something good or something bad.
Ingalls published a couple of books on power, and I'm wondering if he's considered either of these in those books, or maybe he could tell us something about that.
My books?
Yeah.
Do you cover this at all in your books, or what do you cover?
Well, not exactly from this point of view.
The first volume, Power One, shows the sociological ramifications of power structures and the need to create the powerless classes of people that will work within the power structures.
So a lot never gets researched about human potentials overall.
and uh...
my second volume which is just sort of available now is uh...
considers empowerment at the individual level but you know uh...
everything is about power and status i guess and uh...
i've just organized uh...
information about power structures one of my favorite topics for years
Gentlemen, I've got to pause right there.
We'll be right back.
From the high desert, I'm Art Bell.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
Music playing.
He came from somewhere back in her long ago.
Saddled as a fool, though she tried hard to recreate what had yet to be created.
Once in her life, she musters a smile for his nostalgic tear.
Never coming near what he wanted to say, only to realize it never really was.
She had a place in his life.
He never made her day, but as he rises to her apology, anybody else would surely know.
He's watching her go.
But who will believe, he's seen the wise man has the power.
Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
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This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
Anybody out there see the movie The Matrix?
I want to tell you a little interesting story.
All of you, including my two guests, the distinguished Ingo Swan and Paul H. Smith.
Ingo, the father of remote viewing.
And he's going to be speaking, boy isn't that something, at this coming International Remote Viewing Conference.
2002 actually, Remote Viewing Conference.
That's June 14th through the 16th in Austin, Texas.
If you're anywhere near that part of Texas at all, you can call toll free to get tickets at 1-866-374-4782.
I'll give the number again.
It's 1-866-374-4782.
Now, during this period of time, this is going to be easy for everybody to put down, and that's fine.
During this period of time, this two weeks that I kept running this horrendously high temperature, I had some interesting experiences.
During the dream state, while I was able to sleep, and during periods when I was awake, I had equal experiences, and that was of the reality as we know it.
Everything that is around us that we consider to be real, you know, the desk, the floor, the ceiling, the walls, the house, the earth, all of it, and everything we see, all of the Matrix, Suddenly, in flashes, would drop away, and I would see a different world.
Literally a different world.
Completely different, so foreign as to be almost something I can't explain to you.
But this happened both in dreams, when I was asleep, with what sleep I could get, and when I was awake.
Now, granted, I was running a high fever, and that could easily explain the whole thing.
Maybe.
One of our nation's preeminent theoretical physicists, Dr. Michio Kaku of New York City University, has been on this program explaining to me that if time travel exists, that there is a possibility, theoretical possibility, that should somebody go back in time and in some way change an event, There would simply be an instant new universe created, a new bubble created in which events unfold in a specific way.
And there may be hundreds or thousands or millions or hundreds of millions or more than we can imagine universes that have been created.
And that would answer the paradox question.
I kind of wonder, gentlemen, with what I just went through with this stinking fever for two weeks, I really did, I had these flashes of what you could certainly attribute to just a high fever, and I'm sure everybody will, which is just spiffy, but I'm telling you I had flashes of something else, some other entirely different reality.
And as we consider the matrix and the whole concept of the matrix and the possibility of other dimensions and new universes being created with change, anybody have any points of view on any of that that they want to talk about?
I'll do that one.
I'll cover a little bit, but some of it belongs to Ingo.
One point of interest, I've heard rumors, I don't know how true these are, but the name for the movie The Matrix, the rumor is that they actually got that title from some of the Ingo Swanson helped put off theories about remote viewing.
Because in Ingo's CRV, there is the notion of a matrix that is, you know, the repository of everything, all facts and all information about the universe.
Which comes from David Bohm, and Ingo can talk a little bit about that perhaps.
But this idea, you know, Kaku's idea about creating parallel universes, that's an old one in philosophy.
A lot of people have talked about that.
Whether or not it's true, of course, that's hard to tell.
But I think that there certainly are other underlying realities.
Or maybe it's all sub-elements of a bigger reality than we're conscious of.
And you could easily have picked up on something like that, it seems to me.
So anyway, with that I'll turn it over to Ingo and see what he can do with it.
The Matrix, Ingo.
The Matrix.
How are we defining Matrix?
As, I guess, all that we perceive.
All that we see around us.
That was the concept of the Matrix.
In the movie there was, of course, science fiction, but it was, you know, a projected thing that the world looked a certain way, when actually the world had been utterly destroyed ecologically, and so forth and so on.
And it was a wasteland, but everybody else looked clean and nice, and everybody was living their everyday life, and it was all being done in their minds.
It was some matrix of, you know, a presentation of a reality.
Well, did you know that our human sensing systems, that's all of them, that's just not the five physical ones, but all of our sensing systems that are now known to exist through the science of studying receptors I'm going to talk about this down in Austin, by the way.
All our sensing systems are sending about 10 million information bits to our brain every second.
But only 40 of these get into the cortex, where consciousness is formed.
And we form our consciousness about what is perceivable within the cortex and we're only doing 40 bits per second out of all these 10 million that are coming into us.
There's a book that came out in Europe a little while ago and finally got to the United States called, it has kind of a strange title, it's called The User Illusion by a guy named Tor Norritanders and in this book he is reporting up-to-date on everything that's known about how consciousness is
formed.
If information doesn't get into our cortex, we will not perceive it.
So in other words, then, Ingo, does that mean that we only perceive a very tiny,
by percentage, a tiny bit of what we might be able to perceive
if we were totally connected, yes?
Yes, but the surprising aspect of this is this was known since the 1950s, by the way.
So if you can get information bits into your cortex, which is, you know, this is the outer part of the brain which wraps around the back of your head and across the top of the head, and it's just a layer of Neurons and synapses and things like that.
If you took it out and unfolded it all together, it would be about 21 square feet.
Anyhow, this is where our perceptions are made, and the perceptions are made about, based upon the information bits, the few, very few information bits that gets through to the cortex.
When you have an unusual situation, such as your high fever and things like that, probably your Perceptual connection to your physical universe declined just a bit.
It sure did.
Faded away.
And this allowed, in these 40 bits, to come through information based upon other potentials that you and everyone else has.
And so you undergo these altered states of consciousness, as they're called.
But this book, The User Illusion, you know, I believe that All remote viewers should keep up to date on conventional research, which is actually increasingly substantiating the reality that things like remote viewing and sensing other realities just goes on in us all the time.
Except that our cortex and our reality boxes filter out Everything that doesn't fit with our reality boxes, unless there's some great change of some kind, and then you begin to experience these other things.
And since you don't have any information about that these are natural processes, you get apprehensive and scared and frightened, I guess, or something like that.
But the basis for consciousness is now really very thoroughly understood.
And the basis for the millions of different kinds of receptors that we have is increasingly understood.
And it just includes everything that we've been talking about tonight, including remote viewing.
Gentlemen, is there any indication that consciousness continues following physical death?
Boy, you like to segue from one imposing situation to another one, don't you?
That's my business, yes.
It really is.
It's the ultimate question, isn't it?
With regard to consciousness, whether it ends like... Anybody who's had a clinical death experience with a flat brain wave who comes out of it can talk about that really good.
Yes, it does exist.
But it's, you know, we...
In English, we're very limited in our nomenclature, so we have to refer to everything like this as consciousness.
But there's different kinds of it, based on different kinds of information and so forth and so on.
And believe me, these biological bodies could not operate unless there was a super type of consciousness that was doing the operational thing from the subconscious level.
And Having undergone a clinical death experience in 1972, I can say yes, there's consciousness after that.
And what did you experience?
Oh, I was coming down with the flu.
I was staying with the put-off down in California, and we had two, what we used to call, East Coast scientists coming to test me further the next day.
And I was coming down with the flu, so I took a penicillin pill, hoping to get rid of it.
In about four minutes, I underwent anaphylactic shock and died and was dead for 21 minutes.
21 minutes.
And, um, floating up on the ceiling of the room and going out and being on the roof and, uh, coming back.
So I says, you know, I'm, I'm not ready to die yet.
So, and was screaming and put off's head to what to do and try and things like that and everything.
And eventually he did it and, uh, Which was turn me over and stick his finger down my throat.
You're telling me you had not only the classic experience of floating on the ceiling or even out of the building, but you were screaming telepathically to help put off.
Well, I was trying.
Well, apparently you succeeded.
Well, I don't know.
They had called the ambulance, of course.
And so when he stuck his finger down my throat, It caused an autonomic response in my body.
Choking, which I got a breath of air.
Then they dragged me to the toilet because I started throwing up.
You know, dying is a messy experience.
I can tell you that.
That's how they found me when the ambulance guys got there.
They dragged me off to the Stanford University Hospital where I was doing EEGs.
For the next four hours to see if I had any brain damage or anything like that.
So I was out there.
It wasn't... I did not see the white light and I did not see anybody waiting for me.
So it was not really a typical type of thing.
And yet you do recall being above your body.
Oh yes.
Seeing your body.
Yeah.
Can you remember the state you were in?
Do you have any... Yes, it was practically nothing.
A piece of nothing that had 360 degree vision in all directions.
A little point of something.
So you were seeing everything at once.
Yep.
Would be a way to put it, wouldn't it?
Yep.
And furthermore, I more or less accepted it as my real natural state in that condition.
I know, it sounds too awful to believe.
No, no, no, it doesn't.
It actually happened, you know.
That was your reality.
In other words, to you, that was... Oh, yeah.
...as real as the state you're in right now on the phone.
Yeah.
No, it was more lucid.
It was more liquid.
You know, sort of... sort of a liquid stage.
No, we don't have terms for this.
Sanskrit language has terms for these things, but English doesn't.
Well, in some of these telepathic channels that you had opened during this program, or that you've opened during your life, have you encountered, that's another good old loaded question, but have you encountered apparent consciousness disembodied from any physicality?
You mean ghost?
For example?
Let's use any name you want.
You can call them ghosts, you can call them aliens, you can call them, I suppose, devils or angels, or any manner of consciousness that you were aware was not attached to a physical body.
You mean a disembodied consciousness?
Yes, sir.
Yes, I have.
But, you know, it's been talked about through history so many times by so many people that it's really surprising that this is not accepted.
As that thing, you know, I mean, here we are as species and we experience these things all the time.
Thousands, millions of people experience these kind of things.
And we have this as a species attribute, a very wonderful one.
And yet we live in these little tiny social enclaves that are so restricted on what they accept as reality that we have to edit all those things out in order to fit in.
And it doesn't matter if I have personally It doesn't matter if individuals personally experience these things, because it matters more that the species experiences these things.
All cultures have traditions along these lines, going back into antiquity.
And here we sit in our modern age and say, well, no, we're not going to permit that.
Oh, well, we're not going to permit telepathy either.
We're going to devalue the power of prayer.
And in order to, what it more or less amounts to, is support our local software programming social structures, you know.
And somebody said something cute to me the other day.
She said, you know, all that we are, our minds and our bodies and everything, are just life support systems for our software programs, our mental software programs.
Which people are willing to die for.
And, you know, so you're seeing I'm having an attitude here that doesn't quite fit with local reality boxes, as I call them.
Mm-hmm.
And I get very verbose at times.
But this is what you're talking about, in a way, that we have an ongoing conflict between Our sociologically programmed reality boxes and what our species is actually capable of.
And we're a wonderful species.
I mean, we have this neocortex thing that can do things that no other animals can do.
And that's contact the future and contact the past.
How many more remote viewing conferences do you think have to come and go before mainstream science is going to embrace what you're saying?
Mainstream science, I'm going to talk about this in my lecture, my two lectures.
Mainstream science is producing new formats of reality that already incorporate things like remote viewing and a number of other things, you know.
We now have millions of receptors.
You know, in a few, a couple, I think in 97 or 98 there came a report out of Europe that an experiment had been done over there.
And it's a really funny one if you want me to tell you about it.
Go right ahead.
But they got together a bunch of guys of various social standing and everything.
They made them wear a t-shirt for a couple weeks.
And then they got together a group of women who were in the ovulating period of their menstrual cycle and things.
Mm-hmm.
And they asked him to sniff these t-shirts.
Yeah?
And so they all did this, and then they had one question.
Can you tell me what this question is most likely to have been?
Not a chance.
Not a chance.
They asked him, sniff these t-shirts and tell us which one you think would be the best provider.
Oh, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho.
And they did it.
Hold on, you two.
We'll be right back.
Stay right there.
That's a great place to break it.
And they did it, huh?
Who'd be the best provider?
I guess that would be the smell of success, huh?
I guess that would be the smell of success, huh?
He's one.
He's one.
I guess.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First-time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First-time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222, or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
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800-893-0903. This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
Oh boy indeed, tell me, sweet little eyes.
If there's a headline that comes from the show this morning, it's a simple and straightforward one.
Everybody tells lies, sweet little lies, not so sweet little lies, right?
So...
If there was a reason that we didn't understand before for the ending of the remote viewing program by our government, consider yourself.
You're running a program, you've got people like Ingo Swann and other extremely, and Paul Smith, other extremely talented Both natural psychics and trained remote viewers, but all of a sudden the results you begin to get Indicate that the people who are working for you are able to read minds Now they're a real danger not to those that you would task them to go look at but perhaps to you Probably to you almost certainly to you
Because, after all, you've told some sweet little lies and some not-so-sweet little lies.
You're probably involved in the CIA, and so you've probably told a lot of lies, actually.
So now how big is the danger to you?
Once again, the father of remote viewing, Ingo Swann and Paul H. Smith, and I hope I'm
not keeping either one of you up too far past your bedtimes.
It's always an honor to talk to you anytime, Mr. Bell.
Oh, well, thank you.
I've got a, you know, I get these email messages, these fast blast things by computer as we're doing the program.
Teresa in Renton, I guess Washington, says, you know, I'm a nurse and I've had patients say, I'm going to die and absolutely then proceed to code and die.
Anybody have any thoughts on that?
Do people know frequently when they're going to die?
I mean, she's saying they literally say, I'm going to die now, and they die.
I think they probably do.
Although I'm not sure it's always the knowledge.
It may be a decision.
Some people just decide that they're going to die at that point.
A decision?
There was a little story that came out of the media a little while ago.
I saw it somewhere.
Probably in the New York Post.
There was this old guy who said he would know when he's going to die and he would take care of everything.
So one day he drove down to the mortuary and his car parked it and died in front of the mortuary and he had all the instructions about what to do with his body.
So there you are.
Just to clean it up, before the break we were discussing these ovulating women who were sniffing the t-shirts, right?
If ovulating women can pick good providers by sniffing t-shirts, then anything is possible.
So what it means technically is that everybody has all these different kinds of receptors in their nose, they don't just smell.
They smell emotions, they smell this and everything and that's known in science now.
I was joking, the smell of success.
Well, it's the same thing.
I mean, well, you know, you can smell success too.
People have been smelling success, I don't know how long.
And but we have receptors in the nose, which we think just smells garlic and roses and
things, but they can smell other things too.
So when these ladies are ovulating, these very rare receptors become active and they
they can pick a good provider.
And they did that?
They did that, yes.
And it's reported.
I think it was reported in Science Magazine.
My friend Tom Bergen downloaded all of that for me from the internet.
So it's probably under smell if anybody wants to look it up or anything.
Well, isn't there some old expression about smelling fear?
Oh, yes.
In the past, everybody thought that was psychic, but now we know that there are receptors in the nose that smell all these things, and so it's not psychic anymore.
It's just an undiscovered part of our information receptor systems that nobody really had nailed down in science, but they've nailed them down now.
Well, is there a discipline, either one of you, for Connecting more of these synaptic lines to the cortex, is there some way you can train yourself to do that?
Or are there just those natural born like you, Ingo?
Well, I've never smelled success myself.
If I had, I'd have probably not done remote viewing at all.
Look, you can train anything We have one constant factor that's been with our species since as long as we know it, and that we have a mind and we have a brain, but we also have awareness and attention.
And anything that gets into the cortex has to be a strong enough signal to get through all of the filters and things that these signals have to get through.
And if it gets through those, then it becomes a blip at the base of consciousness.
Consciousness In the cortex.
The cortex then builds a simulation of what it thinks this blip means.
After the simulation is built, then we become aware of it and then we can see it or decode it or recognize it for what it's worth.
And it's pretty sure that this is how consciousness is formed.
It's formed after the fact Of all of these other processes.
Although more times than not, that little blip is rejected entirely, or not digested in any meaningful way, correct?
Ten million of them are rejected every second.
So, now, you can, you can certainly train awareness, and you can train attention, and you can therefore train perception, and this kind of training goes on in every field, every human activity.
So, Dr. Puthoff's genius at the project, by the way, the remote viewing development project at SRI came about because of Dr. Harold Puthoff, who was the first to propose it to his Washington people and things like that, and it got going and it was under his guidance and genius that the work was converted to information theory rather than parapsychology and things like that.
So I believe him to be the SRI father of remote viewing.
Because without him, I would have been nothing myself.
At any rate, if you can get, you can train attention.
Can you not train attention?
You can train attention.
Yes.
Okay.
I mean, it's done in music, it's done in sports, it's done in horse racing, it's done in Wall Street and everything.
So everything depends upon Those signals that get through to the cortex that you can become attentive to.
And you can really do anything you want with this, including remote viewing training and smelling t-shirts and looking at the stars.
And all of this is coming from the conventional sciences now.
The conventional sciences are catching up with all of this.
Well, we know that, for example, autistic, some autistic children, to all the world barely functional in the society we understand are capable of strange wonderful things bizarre and wonderful things mathematical calculations that it would take the very best computer we have to figure out and so you must imagine there's some connections made there that aren't made for us, eh?
Well, you know, I mean, you know, you have to think from the species level downwards, not from the individual level upwards.
Nothing can happen to us as an individual unless it's already encoded, its potentials are already encoded into our species profile.
And so people who are not operating on their sociological software programming like autistic people are, are probably getting information bits about these other things right along.
We could do that too, hypothetically anyway.
In fact, you know, autism actually has a sort of indirect remote viewing connection here.
Having been one that's gone through INGO's training program, and I can attest to how effective it was, there's an interesting piece of scientific writing about autism that suggested that maybe the reason you have these savants who are autistic is that they aren't distracted by all the conscious processes that are going on in the normal, average, everyday person.
And in fact, Ingo's training methodology, the objective of that is to help us to get beyond the normal, everyday conscious goings-on, what is often termed as mental noise, in order to allow the remote viewing to work.
So it may well be that these autistic folks are able to function at such a high level in those things Because they aren't distracted by the things that normal people are distracted by.
Alright, now let's take a real species leap here for a moment.
There have been some very interesting experiments which, by the way, were documented on national television regarding dogs.
Here we go down the chain instead of up and a pretty big jump down the chain I would say or most people I think would say perhaps not in some respects but I mean dogs documented to be understanding of their owner on the way home at a time the owner should not be on the way home obviously reacting to the fact that the owner is on the way home without having any knowledge of Of the fact that the owner's coming home at this strange, unusual time again, and again, and again, and again, the dog knew the owner was coming home.
What's that all about?
Dogs are telepathic.
Come on.
Dogs are telepathic.
You know, Inger had mentioned Rupert Sheldrake.
And in fact, this particular instance got Notoriety from Rupert Sheldrake in a book he's written about animals that tend to know things that they really oughtn't to know, at least according to our current models.
The dog, you know, would know when the owner was coming even though it was out of, as you described, out of sync with the normal schedule and all that.
And this is an interesting thing in terms of your 9-11 chart showing conscious focusing on this event that's about to happen.
And it ties in this way.
There are, of course, lots of stories and accounts of animals that seem to know when earthquakes are coming
and things like that.
Oh, yes.
You know, there's attempted a standard physical explanation, oh, they just sent some kind of thing
that's released before the earthquake happens or some kind of subtle sensory things.
But actually, I don't know whether you know or not, a man named Jim Birkland that I interview
was the only official county geologist for a county in California and predicted the Loma Prieta
earthquake, the World Series earthquake, rather, right on the noggin.
And you know how he predicts earthquakes?
He watches the newspapers for the number of lost cats and dogs.
They're leaving town.
Yeah, they're leaving town.
That's right.
And the numbers go up just like the Princeton charts.
They just go off the chart before an earthquake.
You know, there's some speculation that these mental abilities that, of course, our society tends to discount, but that England and I know exist, that these were, you know, there's some speculation that they were evolved into the various species.
That it was adaptive that the animals and humans should have some capacity to, you know, predict things like where food might be found and when a threat might occur in a way that wasn't tied just to the normal physical senses.
But that we in our world today have kind of lost that or forgotten that we have that ability.
And that's only through things like remote viewing that we try and reawaken them.
Well, then wouldn't it be fair to say that psychically Man has probably, in the modern era, devolved from a psychic point of view, as opposed to evolving.
You know, I don't think devolved is the right word.
And that's been proposed.
People have said, well, we've devolved and we're not as good as we used to be.
But the way natural selection works, you only devolve if a particular characteristic is negative.
You know, if it's neutral, if you're not using it, It may go away if you lose some other kind of genetic characteristic.
But if it isn't a negative to your survival, it doesn't go anywhere.
It just may be sublimated or suppressed in some respect to that degree.
So I don't think we've actually devolved.
I think we just need to reawaken what's there.
We've just been sleeping for so long.
I agree.
Our species genome carries all these things.
You can imagine this great board of switches.
Our genome has millions of them.
All but 10% of them are switched off.
Yes.
In order to make us fit into this very limited social context that we're forced to live within.
And, um, so it's switching back on again, that's all.
Anything can be trained, anything that can be nurtured, uh, nurturing is a form of training. You can nurture these
things.
I wonder how the two of you feel about I interviewed a professor in Great Britain.
Oh, I don't know was a month ago, maybe Who's just had a chip implanted in his arm now a very interesting case now?
He's probably the first real cyborg but he imagines a world in which our thoughts Can be integrated with the linear computing power, literally integrated with a computer.
Anybody see any danger in that approach?
Man meets machine?
There's nothing that's naturally dangerous along these lines.
The only thing that makes them dangerous is social attitudes about them.
And I can get very No, I think that we should progress.
We should explore all these things, you know.
But our brains, our natural biological inheritance, our bio-mind inheritance has a lot of switches and chips already in them.
We have chips.
If you want to call a receptor a chip, it's a chip.
It's still a receptor and it's going to send information to your brain.
Whether it gets processed through into the cortex consciousness or not is an entirely different matter.
But that's because most societies don't nurture anything, hardly at all, except what fits into their local power structure.
Alright, that's one answer about machines.
Now, what about genetics?
We've unraveled the human genome.
Not completely yet.
Well, perhaps not completely, but close.
And the next logical step is the beginning of the manipulation of the human genome.
Well, there's a category of genome factors.
I think geneticists, and anybody can correct me on this because I'm correctable, you know.
They've found a lot of genes that they don't know the function of.
Ah, right.
It's not that the genome has been decoded.
They may be able to count the number of genes now, but a lot of them they don't know what they're doing, what they're there for.
So there's things yet to be discovered when you say the genome is mapped.
So we have all these potentials, all these things that you've brought up tonight and so forth and so on.
Everybody should try everything in order to fulfill and identify these potentials, I think.
So you're not... Neither one of you really has any great cautions about plunging ahead, either with the human-machine connection or perhaps with modification of... Well, we have two choices, Mr. Bell, as I see it now in my old age.
We can retreat to the past and its boundaries, Or we can plunge along into the future where we don't know what we're doing, but we might find out a few things that will better our life on Earth.
I think there's a third choice.
Oh, good.
And that one is to go carefully into the future and try and plan as well as we can what we're doing.
I think it's probably not quite correct to say that neither of us have any cautions about either man-machine interfaces, such as you described, or genetic developments.
I think that anybody who thinks about it feels that there ought to be some caution.
It doesn't mean that we oughtn't to do it.
It just means that we ought to perhaps be a little more careful with how we do it than we have with other dangerous technology that we've explored in the past.
Well, there's a fourth option then, too, Paul.
Okay.
It's an old adage.
It goes back some time.
It states very clearly that nothing, nothing risked, nothing gained.
Ah-ha-ha.
All right.
Hold on, gentlemen.
We'll be right back for another segment.
And we will get the phone lines very quickly.
Fascinating stuff.
I'm Art Bell.
This is Coast.
The eagle rode his wings
across all the skies kissed the sun
touched the moon but he left me much
too soon his ladybird
he left his ladybird ladybird come on down
I'm here waiting on the ground
ladybird come on down music
music music
Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-637-8000.
618-8255, east of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
Good morning, you're listening to two of the world's best, Ingo Swann and Paul H. Smith.
It's an unusual opportunity to gain some insight, we certainly have this morning, into For example, the reason, uh, one of the big untold reasons why the whole remote viewing program ended.
Not just politics, not just, not just skepticism, but a whole lot more.
Stay right there.
Once again, uh, Ingo Swann and Paul H. Smith.
Uh, gentlemen, again I want to, uh, for, uh, plug your, uh, A conference coming up and it might be kind of fun to tell people
Exactly what occurs at these conferences.
It's a 2002 remote viewing conference scheduled for June 14th through the 16th, next month, in Austin, Texas.
And if people would like to attend, there's a toll-free number to call, which is 1-866-374-4782.
1-866-374-4782 866-374-4782
866-374-4782.
What happens at these conferences?
Well, all kinds of things.
Of course, we have a lot of speakers who come and talk about their area of expertise.
In this case, of course, a lot of them will talk about their experiences in remote viewing and how everything developed.
We have some workshops where people may actually get to try remote viewing on their own.
Although the focus isn't to teach you how to remote view, that's not the purpose of the conference.
Still, there are some experiential things that you can do.
One of the highlights of each conference has been what we call the PK party, a psychokinesis party, where folks get together and try to bend spoons and forks with their minds.
Does it happen?
Yeah, it does.
My brother actually bent the heck out of a fork a couple of conferences ago that really impressed me.
Now there are people who claim that's nothing but a parlor trick.
Yeah, and it can be duplicated using parlor trick techniques.
I've seen the Amazing Randy do that.
But, in fact, just because you can do it one way doesn't mean you can't do it the other way, too.
You're saying you can do it the other way?
I've seen it done the other way.
Well, then why not take the Amazing Randy's million damn dollars?
Well, somebody's worked it.
I've not ever been able to do it myself, which is interesting because I've done some pretty impressive remote viewing.
In the past, but I've never been able to bend a fork.
I don't know.
I'm not sure anybody could bend a fork far enough for the amazing Randy.
Well, I think you're probably right there.
You know, there's more going on there than just evidence, you know.
Yes.
By the way, Kreskin, you know, this fellow Kreskin has made this interesting prediction That there will be a sighting in the Nevada desert witnessed by hundreds or thousands of people of the, you know, the biggest UFO sighting ever in history or something.
I believe it's in July.
In fact, I'm going to have Kreskin on to talk about this, but he's so sure of what he's saying that he's putting up $50,000 if it doesn't happen.
Huh.
Either one of you hear about that?
I've heard of it.
He was just here at the birthday party for Alex Imich.
In March, by the way.
Dr. Image.
It was his 99th birthday.
And he looked great.
Hank Creskin came as one of his guests.
I can't bend forks, either.
Have you encountered people who can?
Yes.
Yes.
Yes, same here.
You've both seen physical... the mind affect physical material?
Well, I've seen a kid that didn't have the strength to bend anything, hardly.
It just... the fork just melted.
But anyhow, it's an embarrassment that I, of all people, can't bend a fork.
We have different connections, apparently.
Now, that one is particularly interesting because anybody who could melt a fork could probably cause a burst artery or God knows what else in a human being, wouldn't you think?
I don't think necessarily.
I mean, you're talking about different materials and who knows how mental influence may affect different materials.
We don't know the answer to that.
It's possible, but I don't know that we know for sure.
I know of a psychic in the early 70s who said he could hold a rat that had cancer in his hands and he would heal it.
So when the rat got in his hands, it promptly died.
So, anything is possible.
I don't particularly back away from the negative issues of all this, you know.
Say they're just hypothetical, maybe they go on all the time.
And obviously, humor doesn't dilapidate with age, does it?
Alright, listen, I want to take a couple calls.
I've promised, and so I need to.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Ingo Swann and Paul Smith.
Hi.
Hi, how's it going?
Hi, Ingo.
Hello.
Some of us are blessed and some are not so blessed.
I have that weird thing that runs in the family where you see little weird things happening here and there and after a while you start not wanting to tell anybody about it because you actually start thinking you're making these things happen.
Have you had that feeling?
Actually, there's a really, really good question.
Hold on here while I get rid of this apparent echo I have.
Let's see if I can get rid of it.
There we go.
Trying to get a million people on the air at once here is tough.
I wonder how many people are either blessed or, depending on your point of view, cursed with the kind of abilities that man is talking about and just never say a doggone thing to anybody or else maybe they do once or twice and then decide telling people is not such a good idea.
Well, that's a given.
I mean, if these things are forbidden in our social orders, then if you start talking about them, you're forcing yourself outside of the social order.
And everybody wants to be approved by their peers, more or less.
And so, they're just things you don't talk about.
Other than just these kind of phenomena, there's a lot of things you don't talk about.
You don't talk about anything that's not approved amongst your peer grouping.
And the peer grouping has been software programmed by the social orders around them.
So let's say there are 10 million bits, information bits, we could be talking about, but we only talk about 40 of them because those are the ones that are approved.
So it's been a problem.
I think that's been a problem for a long time.
Centuries.
All right.
Wild Cardline, you're on the air with Ingo Swann and Paul Smith.
Hi.
Hello, uh, am I on air?
You are on air.
Where are you, sir?
Oh, hi.
Hi, Art.
Okay, I wanted to share something with you and Dr. Smith and, uh, Swan about something that I don't know if it's safe to try at home, but it's very easy to try at home to confirm some of the things that they're saying.
And it's been my experience.
I've been watching yellow jackets and hornets and bees and such creatures for many years since I was eight years old and even made a profession out of it.
So I am a scientist.
And I noticed in particular the tree hornet, which is Dalacolespula aerinaria.
It's the one that builds a nest like a football in a tree, but not the white-faced hornet.
It's the ones that look like yellow jackets.
And I found it when observing them.
If you're very nice to them and you feed them some syrup on a piece of typing paper, they'll come and eat it and let you watch them.
But if I go to any thoughts like imagining what it would be like if a raccoon got into their nest and started preying on them, or imagined if I could pick up some of their dead under the nest being a vegetarian, I was feeding my pet ants on only dead insects that I found and wouldn't kill any to feed them.
And I thought that the hornets wouldn't mind partying with some of their dead.
But the moment I thought of acquiring their dead to feed it to the ants or a raccoon preying on them, they immediately came out angry and trying to sting me.
But I was able to stop their attack by thinking about feeding them more syrup and how this would help them cool their nest because they'd have more energy to collect water from the streamlet instead of nectar, which I gave them more syrup in.
Okay.
I love it.
Okay, gentlemen.
I love it.
You love it.
You love it.
You love it, huh?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, consciousness is interconnected.
I guess that's it.
I mean, I'm sorry, Cleve Baxter showed that in plants anyway.
And I was, I grew up in the Rockies and then later on in Utah where we had lots of hornets in yellow jackets.
And you just had to think that you weren't going to bother them and they didn't get excited.
But if you came with a broomstick to knock their nests down, you had trouble coming your way.
So yeah, this is really real to me.
Yeah, sure.
Now, I had a lady.
I had a lady who claimed that she made deals with insects.
That, you know, they would drive her nuts.
And that she would make deals with them.
She would project thoughts to them that if they would basically leave her alone, mosquitoes and such, That she would not kill them.
She came to some sort of agreement and claimed that it actually worked.
That somehow there was some sort of understanding imparted and by God they left her alone.
You believe that?
Yes, I think there's a couple of traditions in Africa about that kind of thing.
Yes.
Yeah, yeah, I mean... We have only this one word, consciousness, but our intentions Can send out ripples in the force, right?
Yes.
And if insects find that we don't have good intentions towards them, they get excited and go into the warrior status right away.
But if our intentions aren't interpreted as non-threatening, then they don't bother us.
May I ask you both this?
We now think, or we've thought for some time, That the most powerful force on Earth was nuclear energy, the bomb.
Now, is it possible that once understood and developed, if not fully developed, developed significantly, that the power of mass consciousness directed I told Paul I'd leave him the difficult questions to answer, so there you go, Paul.
Oh, thanks.
I appreciate it.
could become the most powerful or is now or would be the most powerful force on earth?
I told Paul I'd leave him the difficult questions to answer so there you go Paul.
Oh thanks, I appreciate it.
Well, I think it could be. It's interesting, I mean we use the analogy of laser light
where you know light uncaptured radiating out in all directions in all spectrums, white light,
very useful. I mean we read with it but it isn't extremely powerful.
And yet, if you take that light and make it all the same frequency, and arrange it such that it continues to increase and amplify its power, in like a ruby rod or something, you end up with an extremely useful and precise instrument.
If I think if we could learn to do the same thing with consciousness, obviously it would have to be mass consciousness because it's like one little photon.
One individual consciousness is like one little photon in the universe.
It doesn't amount to a lot, but when you put a whole bunch of photons together, then it really does.
So I think the answer is, yeah, ultimately you could have something more powerful than nuclear energy with consciousness if we could just learn how to do it, how to use it.
Laser light is coherent light.
It's light that's shifted from a random sort of thing into a coherency that becomes directed.
Sure, sure.
And when you talk about the power of prayer and super consciousness and things can change the future, it's true, but it has to Some of it has to become coherent, and this begins at the individual level.
You have to agree to be coherent with other people in terms of this, and if you can't agree with that, then it doesn't become coherent.
And, of course, we're socially engineered to think in terms of non-coherency, because it's to the advantage of the few to encourage that view.
So our worldwide social enclaves are, you can't say they're all coherent with each other, can you?
No.
No.
And the reality boxes within these incoherent ones, social factors, are not coherent with each other.
So these greater powers that require a wider massive coherency Hypothetically possible, but only if they become coherent.
In the United States, if everything you're talking about is going to be accepted at an earlier date, is it necessary to associate the power of prayer with God?
Well, you can answer that one too.
Well, you know, I think the use of the term prayer implies that you're You understand some higher power is involved.
Not necessarily.
Well, I think that that's kind of a traditional understanding.
It doesn't necessarily mean that what you're doing in prayer couldn't be pulled out of the religious context, but then we don't have a real word for that, I don't think, unless Engel can think of one.
No, we don't.
We don't have a lot of words we need.
I think God is wonderful.
The concept of it is wonderful.
So do I. Terrific.
But down here, There's just too much incoherency going on, and if we can't correct incoherency into something coherent, then we just have to trudge along in this dreadful, dreadful social situations that we're trapped in right now.
You know, God certainly means no boundaries and no bull.
I have a match cover here that says that.
And no boundaries ...means that there's great coherency amongst everyone, all beings.
And no bull means there are no lies, at least.
Well, I'm not sure... We're far from that, in a way.
Well, I'm not sure that was well said, but I'm not sure it was to answer my question.
My question was a hot potato, really.
It said, if we want this entire concept accepted, aren't we going to have to continue in the U.S.
Being the nation we are and and and believing as we believe that it's associated with God and and That's much more likely to get this this work accepted In in the current social Religious climate in this country, isn't it?
I see where your question is going now.
In fact, I think that may be just the opposite of that I think although I'm religious and believe in God I If, to make this successful, you almost have to stand it aside from God.
And the reason is, is because so many, everybody, I won't say everybody, but there are so many different notions of what it means when you say God.
And you won't get anybody to agree on that.
And so you almost have to extract it out of that debate before you'll get people to start agreeing, I think.
Well, alright, let me ask you this.
If there were Some tests performed.
I know there have been certainly tests with regard to prayer.
And then a group that was prayed for when they didn't know they were being prayed for versus, you know, another group.
that was not prayed for.
Now what they didn't try was a group of very religious people praying for one group of people and then a group of agnostics or atheists concentrating in their very best spiritual manner, not involving God, but nevertheless concentrating on Healing these people by using the power of their brains, their living brains, to heal these people.
Now, if such an experiment were conducted, what would you think would be the result?
Do you think that there would be as much healing by those who are using the conduit of what they called God versus those who are just using the power of the living brain and not connecting it with the Right.
Now, expressed that way, I think that the religious folks would probably have more effect, because they actually would probably have a stronger belief.
But the interesting thing in the first stage, and you're absolutely right, they have not done that particular control experiment, which would be very interesting.
And I bet they won't either.
You should talk to Dr. Gerald Epstein about this.
Oh?
He's America's leading expert in mental imagery.
And, um, that's his field.
I mean, we do have yogis that can, uh, modify their, uh, their heartbeat, um, do all kinds of interesting things.
That's biofeedback, yes.
Yeah.
Elmer Green.
Yeah, oh yeah.
Talked about that.
Yes.
Well, I like to step outside of the prescribed categories about how to think of things, you know.
There's an old adage now in Hollywood that says you gotta think outside the box in order to get bigger and better movies.
And The Economist just ran an advertisement on sides of buses here in New York saying, think outside the duodecohedron.
Oh!
Did they really?
Oh, yeah.
And so, I mean, the idea that we're trapped in our reality boxes is getting to the point where people realize they have to start thinking outside of them.
And I think this is one of the most significant steps forward that I've seen in my whole life.
Because everybody loves their own reality boxes, you know.
Well, are you looking forward to going down to Texas?
Who, me?
Yeah, sure.
You're the one who's going to be the big news speaker down there.
I'm trying to rise to the challenge.
It should be one hell of a conference, and I hope everybody joins in.
Again, I'll give you the toll-free number.
It's going to be in Austin, Texas.
So if you can make it to Austin, Texas, June 14th through the 16th, call 1-866-374-4782.
It's toll-free.
1-866-374-4782. It's toll free. One more time. 866-374-4782.
866-374- I don't know how to thank, again, the two of you for being here tonight.
It's a great pleasure to talk to you, I can assure you of that.
It's always a great time.
One last question.
Of all the things that you all have done in the past for the government, what percentage of those things are you unable to talk about even today?
Quick answers.
Well, I personally can't talk about the operational things that I did.
Paul?
And that's about it.
Yeah, it's pretty much the same with me, although some of the operational things have been talked about enough in the public domain that I think you can get away with talking about them too, but I'd certainly limit myself to anything that would endanger national security.
We're out of time.
Gentlemen, good night.
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