Glenn Kimball reveals a hidden Illinois cave—nicknamed "Little Egypt"—with ground-penetrating radar confirming a 520-foot inverted V-shaped cavern beneath destroyed entrances, once featuring an 110-foot spiral staircase. Artifacts include first-century stone carvings of African and Middle Eastern figures, solid gold pieces (sold to De Beers), and inscriptions in pidgin Hebrew, like the name Melchizedek, suggesting pre-Columbian transatlantic travel. The cave’s reflective surfaces hint at lost tombs or ceremonial sites, possibly looted 15–20 years ago by four individuals who left behind bank records and 3,000 images. Kimball’s findings challenge mainstream anthropology’s rigid timelines, proposing humanity’s true origins may lie in advanced, forgotten civilizations. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert in the great American Southwest, you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be across the cosmos, all time zones covered.
I'm Martell, and from a little place called Perukabata, this is Coast to Coast a.m.
And it's great to be here so much to talk about this hour.
Next hour, Glenn Kimmel will be here.
We're going to be talking about an amazing, amazing, astounding.
I don't know if you can come up with the right words to describe what they found in Illinois, but we've got photographs for you tonight on my website.
That's right.
Photographs of stuff from the cave.
We're going to be talking about that.
This hour, I'd like to remind you of a couple of things.
One, a couple of reasons to go to my website.
Some incredible Ground Zero photographs, exclusive Ground Zero photographs.
Nobody else has them.
If you've never seen these before, all at Martbell.com tonight.
Some amazing photographs of Ground Zero.
And that's not all.
If you look under What's New, the second item will be photographs, yes, I put them up, of our newest affiliate, A-N-Y-E, Perump, Nevada.
That's the station that belongs to Ramona and myself.
And it's our latest affiliate.
We've got some photographs up there for you.
I thought you might enjoy that, all at artbell.com.
Now, what I really want to talk about tonight is human cloning.
Oh, boy, do I want to talk about human cloning.
But first, the war news, such as it is.
A newly landed U.S. Marines cemented control of an outpost in the Kandahar region Monday, closing in, obviously, on Osama bin Laden, if he's there.
Navy jets attacked a convoy of armored enemy vehicles moving near the base in southern Afghanistan.
Two F-14 Tomcats involved.
And so we're closing in on this guy, and we're definitely getting ready to wrap it up there, I think.
Northern Alliance troops, aided by U.S. Special Forces, fought a pitched battle in a sprawling mud wall-led fortress for a second-day Monday with captured loyalists of Osama bin Laden.
Five Americans were wounded by a stray U.S. bomb.
Afghan factions can expect no aid for rebuilding their war-ravaged country, it's been announced, unless they agree on a broad-based government.
Until there's some kind of government that is broadly based.
No more veils, I suppose, that sort of thing.
We're not going to rebuild that country.
We usually rebuild countries after wars.
In the case of Afghanistan, though, I don't think we ought to get involved in that because pretty much it was rubble before we began.
So to rebuild Afghanistan, it seems to me perhaps what we actually bombed at some point, if they get the right government otherwise.
Uh-uh.
Attorney General Ashcroft said Monday, he would not release the names of those detained since September 11th because it would violate their privacy and possibly help Osama bin Laden.
The president, our president, said today the U.S.-led war in Afghanistan is quoting here just the beginning of the fight against terrorism.
And he's warning Iraq and North Korea, putting them on notice, there's going to be consequences for producing weapons of mass destruction.
But tonight, here's what I really want to talk about.
Big, big news.
American scientists claimed yesterday to have cloned the first human embryo, spreading deep alarm among pro-life groups.
Interesting.
Deep alarm, pro-life groups.
If the experiments carried out by Advanced Cell Technology, one of America's leading biotechnology companies, are confirmed, it will mark a major development in genetic research.
The breakthrough came during research aimed at finding new treatments for diseases like Parkinson's and diabetes.
The company has no plans, they say, to use cloned embryos to create babies.
Instead, it would like to exploit the stem cells found in newly conceived embryos for a host of new medical treatments.
So they say they want stem cells.
British cloning experts last night stressed the findings were, quote, extremely preliminary, end quote, and that the company had yet proved it had created a clone.
But pro-life campaigners described the experiments as horrific, said cloning research that deliberately created, then destroyed human embryos was abhorrent.
Earlier this year, the government approved a change in the law to allow research in Britain into cloned human embryos for medical research.
So I guess the Brits are professionally a bit jealous, my assessment.
Dr. Robert Lanza, Vice President of Medical and Scientific Development at ACT, based in Westchester, Massachusetts, said, our intention is not to create cloned human beings.
Rather, it is to make life-saving therapies for a wide range of human disease conditions, including diabetes, strokes, cancer, AIDS, neurodegenerative disorders like Parkinson's and Alzheimer's.
The ACT team said it created the embryo using the same technique that was used for, you'll recall, Dolly the sheep.
It was only a matter of time, wasn't it?
It first scraped out, here's how it happens, it scrapes out the DNA from a human egg cell, injects it with the nucleus from a human skin cell, and finally kickstarts the egg with an electrical jolt.
That if allowed to continue to grow, would become a human clone.
Now, we have discussed this possibility now on this program, well, I don't know, for years and years.
And it was always the stuff of science fiction, you know, somewhere down the line, long time from now.
Guess what?
It's now.
We've done it.
And there's a million questions that I would love to have you help me answer.
You know what?
I'm not sure how I feel about this myself.
My wife is horrified, absolutely horrified, and feels that it's an encroachment on God's territory.
And I understand that point of view perfectly well.
And I might share it.
I'm not sure yet.
I'm really not sure yet.
I'm not sure how I feel about this.
The creation of human life.
I mean, it is that, after all, folks.
It is the creation of human life.
They say, no, no, no, just at the cellular level.
And we don't let it get that far.
But I was always taught that at the moment when the sperm and the egg go howdy, we've got human life.
And it seems to me that when the female part and then the skin part go howdy, we've got human life, no less than.
They can say, well, it's only a few cells, but it really is as much human life as when it is created through a union.
The end result, if carried forth, would be the same.
And don't you, for a second, think they're not going to carry it forth?
Perhaps they're only going so far and only so many cells are created right now.
But you and I both know they're going to go the whole way.
They're going to go all the way, right?
They're going to create a human being, a clone, or clones.
And I am honestly, honestly not sure how I feel about it.
I'm kind of leery.
I'm kind of leery and a little bit afraid of it.
But of course, that probably comes, those emotions, you know, they come with all new incredible discoveries like this, don't they?
So anyway, this hour, I would like to sample your feeling about this.
And that's exactly what we're going to do with Open Lines.
It is an amazing story.
Absolutely amazing.
Outside of a man, outside of a woman, we have now created human life.
You could take the argument that if God had not meant for us to do this, we would not be doing it.
You could also certainly take the argument that we are going to create monsters.
And who's going to care for these monsters?
Humans that are not quite right.
There will be, you know, certainly failed experiments.
who will care for these failed experiments?
Will they have...
That's a question you can bet the courts are going to have to address.
Will they be human?
Ah, these are some times we live in, aren't they?
So open lines on that subject coming up, or any subject, in a moment.
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So they had to jumpstart this little affair with electricity, and then it began to live.
I'm sure they would argue with that fact, and they would say, not live, art.
You know, the cells began to divide.
The process of life began, but we didn't let it go on.
But now, all of a sudden, that it's a human being, it's a whole different story.
And all of a sudden, it's really, really big news.
We've cloned a human being.
Do you think that people are angry because there's not apparently a lot of difference and difficulty between cloning Dolly and cloning the human being?
unidentified
I think that there are going to be people who are going to be angry about it anyway, regardless of what they do.
Well, all right, but I'm not sure that's entirely fair to the critics.
I think it may be more than something to complain about.
I do think that, you know, not so many people said, oh, it's so wrong.
It's wrong, it's wrong, it's wrong with Dolly.
But we did at that time look ahead toward the day when they might clone a human being, and now that day is today.
And I think people may be upset because they like to sort of feature that there's a whole lot of difference between us and a sheep or a monkey or whatever, even though genetically we know there's very, very little difference indeed.
Just not much difference between some primates and a human.
So I've got a feeling that some of the anger that we're hearing on, you know, about cloning or the cloning of a human being is the fact that in some way it makes people understand there's not a whole hell of a lot of difference.
There really isn't.
And they thought, well, cloning a human is going to be impossible.
Yeah, sure, you can clone sheep.
Sure, you can clone a monkey or move a head of a monkey from one monkey to another.
But a human being, no, no, no, no.
A human being is special in the eyes and hands of God.
And we will not clone a human being.
Well, guess what, folks?
It's now been done.
If they'd let it grow, it would have been a human being.
You've got your dream lover, maybe, or your nightmare.
And I guess that's the controversy, isn't it?
My wife made a very interesting observation.
She said, honey, did you happen to notice that they did this over the Thanksgiving weekend?
I mean, here we are in the middle of a war, and everybody takes a slight breather over a Thanksgiving weekend, and then all of a sudden, out of nowhere, over the Thanksgiving holiday weekend, a whoosh, we have cloned.
unidentified
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Since we were children, we've been told to reach for the star.
You know, the dual rights and all that, would they apply to a clone?
I'm not exactly sure.
And all of this would get run through the courts, to be sure.
One night, just for fun, I asked my audience to respond that if they had the ability to have a clone, that would be a human being genetically altered to be not bright at all, to not be smart, not have intelligence, but nevertheless be able to, oh, you know, do dishes, clean the house, change the oil in the car, do all of the things that you'd rather not do.
Would you have such a being?
I will say human being because I'm not sure.
I suspect human being.
Anyway, would you have such a being available to you?
If you could buy a clone to do all the dirty work for you, would you do it?
And most people, when they answered honestly, said yes.
Now, do you for one second believe that the few cells that they claim they have produced is where they're going to stop?
Or do you think it more likely they will go on and clone a human being?
I shudder to think that we'd ever go that road, but I hope that instead we would use this to cleanse the human gene pool of some 4,000-plus inherited genetic effects, some of which you and I both suffer from, and I think our great-great-grandchildren would thank us, brave, poor, beetle-browed souls who dared to invent fire and to cleanse the world of bad things.
Like any technology, its potential for good and evil is roughly equal.
Now, do you ever notice when these medical researchers come up with something that's going to make them a fortune, believe me, this is going to make somebody very, very rich.
If you lost a leg or an arm or something like that, you wouldn't say to yourself or of your daughter or son, well, you know, we'll see what happens here.
If it's God's will, then little Johnny or Jane is going to go to God.
That's all there is to it.
No, you'd rush them to the hospital and you would do every heroic procedure you could do to get their arm reattached and to ensure they didn't bleed to death.
unidentified
So, you know, I don't know.
No, the thing is that when a Christian believes that you don't die until God wishes you to, then even if you had 10 clones of yourself, these clones would not save you.
You're going to die anyway.
So I'm getting kind of sick and tired of hearing that.
But if they could create a clone that essentially didn't have a brain or had such a small brain that could only keep motor functions going, you know, breathing and heartbeat and all the rest of it, otherwise didn't have a brain, but had the body parts available for you, you would not accept those body parts, correct?
Okay, well, your position is clear, and I thank you very much for the call.
I think there are going to be many, many, many people like that lady.
And I mean, no disrespect at all, but I wonder how many of these people, if actually faced with death and the option of continuing to live with a, apart from a clone, would then really refuse.
It's really hard to know until you really got a person in that position.
It's very easy to sit back on the moral high ground when you're not ill, not fatally ill, but would you maintain that moral high ground if you were really pressed?
I don't know.
We're going to answer a lot of very interesting questions about ourselves as this continues.
And the gentleman, Michael West, sounds like a very interesting character.
I've heard him described as a visionary, a Renaissance man that has studied theology and philosophy.
And he is targeting therapeutic versus reproductive cloning.
And what he had created was a one-cell division into six, which was in order to actually, which is just a basic first step art of not even, he's not even close to developing a dolly.
Not even close.
The pros are saying that you need approximately 100 cell divisions to create stem cells.
If they truly don't, then, kind of on the other hand, wouldn't there be an avenue for them to you know, if they don't have souls, that would be of great comfort to the Christian community in a way.
If they are created and they're atypical, they're not really human as we understand humans.
Perhaps they have no conscience.
Perhaps, you know, something really different about human clones.
Then the Christians would have something to say, aha, they are soulless.
And that would bolster their faith in one way or another if they need it.
It would certainly bolster their faith, wouldn't it?
unidentified
Right, Arp.
Do you think being, feeling human beings with compassion and understanding, wouldn't we tend to become attached to these, to these clowns?
I mean, how would we, how would we separate the difference between...
Well, if you look at it, we're used to looking at other human beings, and some people are saying, well, if they don't have a soul, then they're really not people.
They're basically just a farm for people in real need of organs to keep living.
It would be hard to look at them.
I don't know if it would or not, but to me, I guess someone having the same fingerprints as me would...
So if you want to get in contact with us, email is away.
I'm Art Bell.
That's A-R-T-B-E-L-L at MindSpring.com.
Artbell at MindSpring.com.
And just before we jump into what's coming up this hour with Glenn Kimball, a reminder on my website, artvell.com right now, exclusive new Round Zero photos.
These are really dumping.
And they are exclusive.
You'll not see them anywhere else.
We've got photos of my new affiliate.
Our new affiliate here in Tarumpabata 95.1 KMYE.
People wanted to see what it looked like, so I took some pictures.
Not great, sort of done on the spur of the moment, but you'll get the idea that the photos of KMYE 95.1 Tarumpabata on my website.
Now, last week, we had an astounding revelation from Lindemoltown about what's going on on the Coast Cuba on the western coast of Cuba.
We're underneath the water at about 2200 feet or about half a mile, half a mile underwater, impossibly deep underwater, there appears to be a city.
And I mean a city, a building pyramid, roads, everything you would associate with a city, and of course the interview, the incredible interview with Paulina Villiers, who has now not just a radar,
a radar rather, of the president, but has now taken photographs and has found inscriptions and symbols on what appear to be buildings.
Tonight, we're going to follow up with Glenn Kimball.
Not such an exotic location right in the middle of the country in the state of Illinois.
A cave.
And we're going to find out about this cave and what's in this cave coming up in a few moments.
Glenn Kimball is a collector of ancient texts since he was 15 years of age.
Former president of the International Exchange School.
Taught at the University of La Paz in Bolivia and Southern Illinois University.
A best-selling author, lecturer on a variety of historical subjects dealing with ancient texts.
Did his doctoral study at Southern Illinois University.
He has lived not only in Bolivia, but also Chile, Peru, and Mexico, having studied in the libraries of Italy, France, England, and the former Yugoslavia.
Most recently, he's been filming pilots for a new television series slated to air late next year.
But I'm way behind on this whole cave in Illinois.
I've been hearing about it sort of hither and yon for a long time, but I want the whole story.
And tonight, I think we're going to get the whole story, or at least a very great deal of it, if you'll stay right where you are.
And now here he is, Glenn Kimball.
Glenn, it's been a long time since you and I have come together on the radio.
Glenn, I'm really behind the curve on this whole cave in Illinois thing.
I've been hearing about it from, I don't know, about 20 different sources now for a long time, and I don't know where it is, what it is, what's in it, how it was found, and I want to know all of that.
Well, we have to begin and figure out why I'm involved.
Perhaps that would be a good place to start.
As you well know, I've lived in South America for a long time, and having been familiarized some years ago with the earliest archaeology and anthropology, Oblivia, and Peru specifically, though there's extensive finds in Chile as well,
that's something that you can never forget when you're up on the Altiplano standing at Tihuanaco and knowing that these people moved 9 million-pound stones, which are larger by several times over than the largest stones ever lifted in Egypt.
And this is above the timberline at about 16,000 feet in some cases.
And you ask yourself, what am I doing with this tremendous civilization here?
For example, to give you some perspective of what that might be, the largest stone in the Khufu Pyramid on the Gisa Plateau is the rose granite stone, excuse me, in the burial chamber.
That's roughly 360,000 pounds.
So when you're talking about a 9 million-pound stone, you're talking about a very big square rock.
There is nothing in Egypt that compares to this rock.
Well, he has an advantage because they had the Nile River right there, and at least they could move timber up the Nile and use timber and levering these things or rolling the stones in Egypt.
With the best current new technology, nobody can still do it.
And that probably means there was some sort of technology that used to exist, probably still does if we knew how to utilize it, that moved these stones.
What's amazing, though, Art, is that the larger stones are in the West, not in the East.
And we have to ask ourselves, what's going on here?
If, in fact, the technology somehow floated from East to West, then you would presume that the technology would be a stronger technology in the Middle East.
The reality is that it appears, for all intents and purposes, that the technology began here and went east.
In Egypt, if you were to count the number of archaeological sites, this is a very simplistic way of looking at it, you would find some 1,200 sites in Egypt.
But let's assume we're off by 7,000 sites, okay, just to be ridiculous.
And suggest that we're somewhere around 8,000 sites.
In Bolivia alone, there are 32,000 registered.
They are all registered archaeological sites, 99% of which have never had a state of dirt uncovered.
The 9 million pound stones have been estimated to be somewhere around 1200, 1800 B.C. However, there are archaeological sites that are much earlier than that that are in the region as well.
So when we're talking about the Egyptian pyramids, Let's put this into some sort of a timeframe here.
We're talking about 2,700 years B.C. The 9 million pound stones in America around, let's suggest that they're very old and they're 1,800 years B.C. So they're younger by about 900 years.
However, the mining and the other kinds of processes that were going on in the West are even older than the dating of the pyramids.
The dating, the Bronze Age came about in Europe in the Middle East in 3000 BC to 1200 BC.
The Bronze Age included the use of copper to make bronze, obviously.
Scholars have been concerned for decades where the Middle East and Western Europe got all the copper from, because they cannot find enough significant mining sources for the copper.
However, if you come to the Americas in Wisconsin and in Michigan, you find these huge copper mines that date from 3000 B.C. Indeed, but how would the copper have made its way from hither to yon?
There is a river right from the mines onto the Mississippi, Ohio, down into the Gulf of Mexico.
There are little map stones that people have used that we find.
In fact, in this cave tonight, we're going to talk about it.
Not only could it be wrong, but it could be blasphemously wrong.
Oh, my.
The problem we have with anthropology in the Americas is that we look, there was some programming the other night on television which suggested that the sources for the Native American Indians, and the whole rationale was, look at their faces and you can tell where they come from.
And my comment is, if I look at Native American Indians, I can't tell a thing about where they come from.
And they presume that all, because the Native American Indians were not known to Western Europeans until 1492, basically, and because China itself was an unknown civilization, that somehow these two unknown civilizations crossed an isthmus at the time of the last ice age, and that there was some melding toward the end that let the corridor down through Canada, and therefore the Native American Indians must be predominantly Oriental.
The answer to that question is, who thought up that idea?
Because that's silly.
Because that could not possibly be the predominant source for the Native American Indians.
So there is little doubt that Native American Indians do have Oriental genes in their body.
Their body part, there's a piece to the pelvis that is very, I am not a morphologist, so I can't tell you specifically, but there's a piece to the pelvis that is very Oriental in nature and connects it back to the Far East.
But there are other facial characteristics and bone structures and morphological structures which are very Western European and Middle Eastern.
So we're talking about a race of people who, because they are an enigma to us, we make wild assertions about their origins.
And when we start to define origins and make those definitions rigid without having explored all the possibilities, then we introduce error into the system.
The biggest problem we have in America is that we have rushed to close our minds and to preserve our ideas or philosophies about where we came from, who we are, and what our values are.
Well, you know, though, I think that that is less true of the average person when presented with information like they're getting tonight from you and have had from others, including Linda Moulton Howe and many others, and more true of people who research and write papers in the field.
I think they're the ones that have pretty much closed the door.
And, you know, if new information comes along, it threatens careers, Glenn.
Now, if you want me to produce evidence, I can produce a mountain of evidence, but then Carl Sagan's platitude comes into being that preposterous claims or enormous claims require enormous evidence.
And so we have to decide how much evidence is definitive evidence.
And I think Carl Sagan was pragmatically right, but he was certainly describing an unfair system.
We don't play on a level playing field when we talk about discovery.
When we were kids, Art, didn't you dream about being an explorer or an adventurer?
But you know, today we could not be Christopher Columbus.
It's not possible.
And the reason we couldn't be Christopher Columbus is because we couldn't sail on an ocean to a foreign land, stick a stake in the dirt, and say, I claim this for the kingdom of Nye.
Well, Glenn, our science has followed a certain kind of linear progression of investigation.
And as a result, we have the laws of physics and we have other things that we follow.
And sometimes I think that we don't investigate what we would, I guess, consider alternative avenues because it's just not what you do.
You follow the prescribed rules.
And maybe we're operating on the wrong set of rules, or maybe there's just a whole set of rules we don't understand at all.
But if people were moving rocks and doing things that even today are impossible, that means there was a technology, probably still is, if we knew how to use it, that we simply don't have a clue about.
I'm not exactly sure how yet, but it's just another piece of significant evidence pointing toward this incredible lack of knowledge about everything and the way it began and who we are and all the rest of it.
All right, in a moment, I would like to bring you back and we'll talk about what's been found and what you have explored.
And folks, we've got photos in the state of Illinois underground.
I'm Mark Bell.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
Don't touch that dial.
We're not talking about Zahi Awas' Egypt.
We're not talking about Bolivia.
We're not talking about even what's under the sea and or off the western coast of Cuba.
What we are talking about is a cave in the state of Illinois.
And there are a number of questions that I would like answered about this cave.
While I was doing my stint in Bolivia, Chile and Peru and Mexico, Wayne May was up here doing his archaeological tours of the United States.
And while we were both on the speaking circuit back here a number of years ago, we met some individuals who had done exploration, obviously at various sites, but most particularly in southern Illinois.
That was most attractive to me because I had taught at Southern Illinois University and I listened intently to these discoveries.
They sounded preposterous except to say that having lived in Southern Illinois, I knew that Southern Illinois itself is called Little Egypt and still is to this very day.
It's the site of Cairo, Illinois, or Cairo, Illinois, they call it, or Cairo, and Memphis, Tennessee.
Yeah, there was a gentleman at one of these conventions that told us about a cave specifically in southern Illinois, and Wayne, first of all, and then later myself, we cornered him and asked him the actual location.
He asked for a sum of money to take us to that cave site, and believe it or not, we did it.
However, the plan was not to give the entire sum of money until we were actually inside the cave.
And the reality is the individual ducked out of lunch with a goodly sized check and disappeared.
And so what happened is Wayne specifically and some of the boys from Discovery Resources were left very angry.
They decided to do the very natural thing, which was to go to the county recorder and find out who owned the ground that they were standing on.
And they did find out that this did not belong to the individual that they had been talking to and went to the owner of the property and said, have you heard any rumors about people doing archaeological work on your site?
They did have a piece of metal detection equipment with them as well, which is a different piece of equipment.
So there were really four pieces of equipment used on the site.
They drove this equipment over just to check out to see if this guy was lying because, you know, maybe we'll hold crucifixions on his lawn, you know, thank the king, you know.
So you got permission from the owner of the land to, by the way, while Wayne was sitting in the home of the landowner, the gentleman in question called and complained that there were looters on his property taking archaeological artifacts off the site.
And the owner of the property said, you mean the gentleman sitting in my living room?
The landlord seemed to indicate that there had been a couple of cave openings.
However, when Wayne and I went back, there were no cave openings anywhere on the property, and the farmer could not any longer locate the openings to the cavern.
And to be honest with you, in our last little venture here two weeks ago, we found out why we could not find any openings.
We've taken horizontal sonograms and found out that the entrance, the original entrance to the cave, has been blown to a million smithereens by black powder explosion and dumped about.
Well, it certainly is, but wouldn't such a discovery be so incredible so that the artifacts would be worth so much more for what they are rather than, you know, the weight, the metal weight?
That's really stretching it right there, to be honest with you.
It goes a little farther.
Depending upon the terrain and the water tables and other things, we're lucky this is a little bit of a rolling hill and we were taking a sideways glance to it.
So we're really not talking about the full 110 feet.
We're talking about a sideways view of it on a hill.
And part of the problem, our original problem in finding a site to begin with was all of our detection equipment was straight down through the earth, and so we had a two-dimensional map.
And when we got the horizontal equipment on site here two weeks ago, we realized how we had made a terrible blunder in picking the site to open the cave that we did.
Because everything was true about the door that we had chosen, with the exception that it had been blown to smithereens.
And the interior of it was debris-laden all the way down through the staircase.
So there was no passageway, and there was no reasonable timeframe to excavate that out.
Now, these are artifacts that are either held by Wayne May or myself or by the local collectors.
So when you say nobody in the town knows what we're talking about, someone's giving you a little bit of ben poop here because there are people who have collections all over the place.
These people, I'll tell you the story we're putting the pieces of the story together this way.
If you go to the very last phase, and I apologize, these are not in order, and we probably haven't rehearsed this well enough, but the very last picture on this, on these three segments of photographs, is another black figure who is wearing a very typical headdress, a very dated headdress.
This headdress that he is wearing is of a Maury sailor off the northern coast of Africa in the first century.
These are the Moorish sailors who sailed in the first century off the northern coast of Africa.
To put this into perspective, if you saw the movie Gladiator and you saw him in the Colosseums, in the Dusty Coliseums, they were Colosseums on the northern coast of Africa in the first century.
Now, obviously, the ones in Gladiator were at the time of Marcus Aurelius in 125 A.D., 124 A.D. roughly.
But these sailors were just being phased out at that particular moment in time.
And you notice in the movie Gladiator 2 that they also had one of the characters was a moi sailor.
And if you look very closely, you'll see some of these kinds of headdresses there as well.
Well, other than people's word and one other thing, and that is a consistency amongst the collections, and that when we go back into the cave, the only hope for these artifacts to be worth anything or to be of any value historically to anybody is for us to actually open the cave and find similar artifacts.
Well, in this particular case, he would think that they came from Northern Africa or Alexandria, Egypt, or the southern coast of Palestine near Jerusalem.
Well, we're going to provide a little bit of that evidence tonight, Art, because we have some more photos here to look at.
We have been there in the last two weeks, and we've taken new photographs down through the center of the earth, and we have some marvelous things to show that have been first time nowhere else seen ever.
The golden artifacts were represented as merely antiquities, gold weight value.
And I think the owner, from his own lips, sold short on the actual gold itself.
The antiquities, the stones, were sold after people would show interest in the tale of Illinois, and he would say, would you like a stone from the cave, or ten stones, or a hundred stones, or in some cases, 500 stones?
You would think that people in possession of something like this would instead represent them as coming from, I don't know, South America or perhaps Egypt or something more likely and easier to sell as a story.
Well, I find the people that I've talked to that are in possession of artifacts and as they've been so kind to just display, I had one gentleman just open up his garage and lay out so many of them it took us all day to film.
These people are generally serious, very concerned, very nice people.
I mean, I used to live there.
I fell in love with the area.
They're nice people.
And we're not talking about people who have grandiose ideas, by and large, about what's going on here.
They largely love to be included, to be a participant in what they feel will be eventually a major find in America.
Yeah, how do you know that these spaces, the one we're talking about now, the largest of them we'll talk about for a second, is not a natural occurrence?
In other words, how do you know that or is it a natural occurrence?
Most of it's naturally occurring, and we're not going to presume anything to the contrary until we get inside the cave.
I think it would be a preposterous claim, though I secretly in the back of my mind know that some of these caverns were, after the people had lived there for such a long time, certainly had to be dug out in some fashion.
And this cavern is a sonogram recording, or a GPR recording, in essence.
And the problem with a GPR from time to time is that if you get a very solid surface, like if you were to look at a piece of glass or to look at a golden table or something, it is very reflective.
And it will reflect differently than if you have a stone which is absorbent or semi-permeable.
We have a problem with this cave because when we go into this cave, if we find any mummies, we immediately must call the county coroner within a prescribed number of hours, and we're not talking about a day, okay?
And you must bring the county coroner back, and he must determine that these people are not recently dead.
So it won't make any difference what my opinion will be.
It'll only make a difference what his opinion is.
If, in fact, it becomes an antiquity of sorts, then we can proceed.
But one of the strange features about this cave opening is that we have to have a coroner on call so that we do not violate the law of the state of Illinois.
Right.
But in any case, if you look at this red photograph again, there are many reflective surfaces in here.
One of the things that has been rumored inside this cave is obviously that there are burial chambers and that many of these people were buried not just on dirt floors, but either on precious metal or on either marble-like rock or something that reflects sonograms prolifically.
Just curious about normal human greed, if people were down here before those who blew up the entrance, why would they not have removed the solid stuff, all of the solid stuff?
You think that, I mean, as you look at what they did, they took out what they could, figured they had enough, didn't want to let anybody else in, so blew the cave.
I'm going to tell you, you might want to take a look.
Go to my website in case you're wondering, how do I get there?
How do I see photographs?
Everybody always asks.
Go to my website, artbell.com.
All right.
And go to program.
Second item down, tonight's guest info.
You'll see the name Glenn Kimball.
And you'll see a link that says photos of artifacts and analysis.
You'll also see a website for ancientamerican.com.
But click on the first link and then sort of proceed down, take a look at the first photos, go to the second page, second photo down, and you'll see overhead scan.
And I'll be damned if it does not look like a mummy.
It looks like a mummy suspended for all intents and purposes in air, the way we're looking at it here.
Obviously, whatever ownership might be there would belong to the landowners and whatever the laws of the land state.
The law of the land state has an interesting blurb of formula, and I'm not going to try and preset that into the minds of the state of Illinois or the federal government by stating what I think on the air tonight.
But it's a shared process between the landowner and the powers that be in this country, and it's a very fair arrangement.
I'm not going to dispute that in any way.
It's done for the protection of artifacts.
What normally happens in the past with people who have gone in to discover places like this, no one's obviously discovered a place like this, but something new would be that they would go in with the intention of looting it, and they would not bring responsible parties to the scene.
And therefore, the federal government kicks them off.
I mean, that's just what happens.
We're in hopes that by demonstrating a responsible posture, by not presuming to enrich ourselves by the artifacts themselves, by bringing proper media, proper archaeological teams, proper ancient text teams together, et cetera, et cetera, we brought the best in the country to the site.
Well, Art, the story of the cave, we've never really gotten into it, you and I, but presuming that there are three different cultures represented here, one being a Palestinian or Hebrew culture, one being Egyptian and one being in the northern coast of Africa.
Egypt is Africa, but we're talking about to the Western African.
We're talking about a group of people that very likely left around the time of the first century at the dispute, probably during the time of the Jewish wars, which would have these people would have been refugees from that system.
They would have been wealthy people who could have hired Mauritanian sailors Who had sailed here on merchant vessels and merchant voyages before, knew where they were going, sailed up the Mississippi.
Well, you know, to some extent, oh, you're absolutely right, Art.
And I hope I'm there for the touche.
You know, I need a good touche on this.
We will demonstrate that there were more than, this is not the only time that these people use these trade routes.
And Christopher Columbus sailed from Portugal, basically used the currents in the ocean.
One might have thought that he would have landed somewhere in Nova Scotia or near Boston or something.
Obviously, the currents in the ocean took him to the Caribbean, which is exactly where the Moore sailors landed.
They sailed up the backside of Florida.
They found that the Mississippi had a higher water content at that moment in history some 2,000 years ago.
And they were able to sail and navigate up the stream up to where the Ohio and the Mississippi meet in southern Illinois.
So it was navigable.
And by the way, by that time, there had already been merchant traffic from the north, from farther north in Wisconsin and Michigan and in northern Illinois down through the Ohio Mississippi, basically, and they had traffic from west to east.
So these Maury sailors brought these people here, and it wasn't their first time here, and excuse me, you know, it's too bad if there were more than one voyage here.
But this particular site appears to have been used over a long period of time because the images that we have seen in the artifacts span about 400 or 500 years.
So they're centered.
I mean, 400 or 500 years sounds like a long time, but that's really kind of centered.
There are underground traders in Illinois and in Indiana and Tennessee and Kentucky that trade in artifacts and have often traded in Egyptian artifacts, Hebrew artifacts, and Native American Indian artifacts who make a living on this full-time.
I met some of them when I was there two weeks ago.
We're going to put on kid gloves to do this right.
We're going to drill a hole to make sure that we have access to the appropriate corridor, take a lipstick camera picture of the interior to make sure that we've got it centered properly, and we're going to carefully dig a...
Now, if you go back up to the map, let me show you what I'm talking about here.
We just wanted to be sure that we weren't out of our freaking minds, and we wanted to drill a hole in the cave, so we carefully drilled a three-inch hole into the cave.
So that we won't, you know, when you're going through with a piece of heavy equipment, you're concerned about collapsing a cavern and not noticing that you're actually in the cavern.
If you go back up the V and you see where the four, you go to the very point of the V and you come back on the backside, you see the four yellow boxes.
Yes.
To the right is a matrix where it's largely collapsed.
So in other words, even once inside, you're not going to be able to navigate the whole thing, but obviously you've got a clear shot it would appear up to where the goodies would be.
Really interesting to think about.
And maybe you'd want to think about it a little bit.
I have.
Now, on the one hand, let us put ourselves in the position of people who originally found this stuff in these caves.
What would you do if you explored a cave and you found untold riches in gold and artifacts?
And you've got on one hand, over here on the right hand, you've got millions of dollars in solid gold and artifacts.
Over here on the other hand, you've got an opportunity to help mankind to turn all of this over to archaeologists and the man who owns the property and the state of Illinois and the federal government and whoever else would put their hands into it, probably keeping your hands out of it.
So let's see.
Archaeologists and the right thing to do over here in the left hand.
Millions and millions of dollars in gold in the right hand.
Archaeologists, history, gold.
Gold, archaeologists.
What would you do?
Well, you might carry out the really expensive stuff and blow the hell out of the cave entrance.
That's what you might do.
So I guess I understand their motivation, and I'm not sure.
I guess we could call them looters, but, you know, one man's looter is another man's treasure hunter.
So, a question for you, Glenn.
Without naming them, because I don't want you to, do you know or think you know the identity of the, in quotes, looters?
So you heard me, in the one hand, you've got all the gold and the riches, and the rest of your life taken care of.
In the other hand, you've got the archaeologists, the people from the state, the people from the federal government, probably the UN, God knows, everybody.
And your chance of walking away with the riches or any substantial portion thereof, pretty slim by the time everybody else got into the act.
So that's kind of what I was thinking.
I mean, what would the average person do?
They might collect it up, take off, get their money, and blow the hell out of the cave.
Well, if you go to a farmer's field and you steal all the wheat off his field and you find out where he and he finds out where you put that in a grain silo and you had no grain before and no farm before, then you're probably not going to be innocent.
But, you know, that's, we're talking about, I'd like to presume innocence until proven guilty.
I'm going to let, and by the way, the agencies and the government are initially aware of what's going on.
There have been contacts, and there will be the appropriate measures taken.
If you'll notice and you'll look very closely, you will see the first evidence in history outside those who might have been in the cave of a statue with his arms outraised.
But what I mean is, is it going to be a big enough hole to actually go down into it originally, or are you going to just drill a pilot hole first with a camera?
And I can only tell you what happened, and then you're going to have to make up your own mind.
We're coming along the surface with essentially electromagnetic equipment.
Right near that center of the corridor there, up just a little bit, between the eight-foot statues and the four golden rooms with the gold in them.
We're coming along there with an electromagnetic reader, following the caverns just nicely, just as nice as punch, easy as pie.
And all of a sudden, we look on the surface and something, we're looking at the surface of the ground now.
The grass is like 11 inches high, but there's like a circle with nothing there.
It's kind of barren, almost like a spaceship landed on this thing and burned it off, okay?
And it's right in the path of our GPR equipment.
We take the GPR equipment over it and the other equipment over it, and my gosh, art, if we go down two pictures below the map, we'll see those little indentations with the yellow circles.
Instead of going down with the little indentations, it went straight to the top of the graph, squared off, and came back down on the other side of this round square.
It matched out for a period of about 14 feet.
Almost like you were standing over a nuclear weapon.
And I don't know what to tell you, except the people who went in there and came out obviously got in and got out, and so it didn't kill them, you know.
I mean, there were a couple of people who died of heart attacks between, but over 20 years people die, you know.
I've had written correspondence over the email for some time with the perpetrator himself, and my last correspondence with him was I sent to him a letter saying, you know, you could have been a hero.
And he wrote back, there are too many of those fellows in the world.
Well, all right, back once again to Glenn Kimball.
And while we have the opportunity, Glenn, if there's anything you would like to promote, if you've got a current book out there or anything else you want to talk about.
Yeah, I was just, well, you know, none of this is really new to me because, well, I'm LDS and about 170 years ago, Joseph Smith found something similar to what he was doing.
One thing I don't want to do is we mix too many spoons in the bowl, and we're going to change the flavor here.
And one of the things that we don't want to do is to orient this towards a religious discussion or towards some sort of pointing fingers or even extolling virtues.
And once again, ready to get your hair stand on end.
We believe that we're going to find that this five and a half foot statue is in fact a statue of Jesus with rubies in his wrists and these in his ankles.