Art Bell

All Episodes

Previous Next

Nov. 26, 2001 - Art Bell

02:17:53

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Glenn Kimball - Egypt Illinois Cave

Participants

Main voices

01:00:36

dr glenn kimball

57:23

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Show episode speakers

Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Participating viewers.
		Next news at 12:30, or when news happens, I'm Tom Bubert, News Talk 89, WLS.
		connected with your world WLS
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert in the great American Southwest, you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be across the cosmos, all time zones covered.
		I'm Martell, and from a little place called Perukabata, this is Coast to Coast a.m.
		And it's great to be here so much to talk about this hour.
		Next hour, Glenn Kimmel will be here.
		We're going to be talking about an amazing, amazing, astounding.
		I don't know if you can come up with the right words to describe what they found in Illinois, but we've got photographs for you tonight on my website.
		That's right.
		Photographs of stuff from the cave.
		We're going to be talking about that.
		This hour, I'd like to remind you of a couple of things.
		One, a couple of reasons to go to my website.
		Some incredible Ground Zero photographs, exclusive Ground Zero photographs.
		Nobody else has them.
		If you've never seen these before, all at Martbell.com tonight.
		Some amazing photographs of Ground Zero.
		And that's not all.
		If you look under What's New, the second item will be photographs, yes, I put them up, of our newest affiliate, A-N-Y-E, Perump, Nevada.
		That's the station that belongs to Ramona and myself.
		And it's our latest affiliate.
		We've got some photographs up there for you.
		I thought you might enjoy that, all at artbell.com.
		Now, what I really want to talk about tonight is human cloning.
		Oh, boy, do I want to talk about human cloning.
		But first, the war news, such as it is.
		A newly landed U.S. Marines cemented control of an outpost in the Kandahar region Monday, closing in, obviously, on Osama bin Laden, if he's there.
		Navy jets attacked a convoy of armored enemy vehicles moving near the base in southern Afghanistan.
		Two F-14 Tomcats involved.
		And so we're closing in on this guy, and we're definitely getting ready to wrap it up there, I think.
		Northern Alliance troops, aided by U.S. Special Forces, fought a pitched battle in a sprawling mud wall-led fortress for a second-day Monday with captured loyalists of Osama bin Laden.
		Five Americans were wounded by a stray U.S. bomb.
		Afghan factions can expect no aid for rebuilding their war-ravaged country, it's been announced, unless they agree on a broad-based government.
		Until there's some kind of government that is broadly based.
		No more veils, I suppose, that sort of thing.
		We're not going to rebuild that country.
		We usually rebuild countries after wars.
		In the case of Afghanistan, though, I don't think we ought to get involved in that because pretty much it was rubble before we began.
		So to rebuild Afghanistan, it seems to me perhaps what we actually bombed at some point, if they get the right government otherwise.
		Uh-uh.
		Attorney General Ashcroft said Monday, he would not release the names of those detained since September 11th because it would violate their privacy and possibly help Osama bin Laden.
		The president, our president, said today the U.S.-led war in Afghanistan is quoting here just the beginning of the fight against terrorism.
		And he's warning Iraq and North Korea, putting them on notice, there's going to be consequences for producing weapons of mass destruction.
		But tonight, here's what I really want to talk about.
		Big, big news.
		American scientists claimed yesterday to have cloned the first human embryo, spreading deep alarm among pro-life groups.
		Interesting.
		Deep alarm, pro-life groups.
		If the experiments carried out by Advanced Cell Technology, one of America's leading biotechnology companies, are confirmed, it will mark a major development in genetic research.
		The breakthrough came during research aimed at finding new treatments for diseases like Parkinson's and diabetes.
		The company has no plans, they say, to use cloned embryos to create babies.
		Instead, it would like to exploit the stem cells found in newly conceived embryos for a host of new medical treatments.
		So they say they want stem cells.
		British cloning experts last night stressed the findings were, quote, extremely preliminary, end quote, and that the company had yet proved it had created a clone.
		But pro-life campaigners described the experiments as horrific, said cloning research that deliberately created, then destroyed human embryos was abhorrent.
		Earlier this year, the government approved a change in the law to allow research in Britain into cloned human embryos for medical research.
		So I guess the Brits are professionally a bit jealous, my assessment.
		Dr. Robert Lanza, Vice President of Medical and Scientific Development at ACT, based in Westchester, Massachusetts, said, our intention is not to create cloned human beings.
		Rather, it is to make life-saving therapies for a wide range of human disease conditions, including diabetes, strokes, cancer, AIDS, neurodegenerative disorders like Parkinson's and Alzheimer's.
		The ACT team said it created the embryo using the same technique that was used for, you'll recall, Dolly the sheep.
		It was only a matter of time, wasn't it?
		It first scraped out, here's how it happens, it scrapes out the DNA from a human egg cell, injects it with the nucleus from a human skin cell, and finally kickstarts the egg with an electrical jolt.
		Kind of reminiscent of Frankenstein, right?
		Throw the switch.
unidentified		It's...
unidentified		It's...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me read it again.
		It first scraped out the DNA from a human egg cell.
		Scraped out, right?
		Just the DNA.
		Injects it with the nucleus from a human skin cell.
		Skin cell.
		Can you imagine that?
		A human skin cell.
unidentified		That's all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And from that, they get a human embryo.
		A human embryo.
		That if allowed to continue to grow, would become a human clone.
		Now, we have discussed this possibility now on this program, well, I don't know, for years and years.
		And it was always the stuff of science fiction, you know, somewhere down the line, long time from now.
		Guess what?
		It's now.
		We've done it.
		And there's a million questions that I would love to have you help me answer.
		You know what?
		I'm not sure how I feel about this myself.
		My wife is horrified, absolutely horrified, and feels that it's an encroachment on God's territory.
		And I understand that point of view perfectly well.
		And I might share it.
		I'm not sure yet.
		I'm really not sure yet.
		I'm not sure how I feel about this.
		The creation of human life.
		I mean, it is that, after all, folks.
		It is the creation of human life.
		They say, no, no, no, just at the cellular level.
		And we don't let it get that far.
		But I was always taught that at the moment when the sperm and the egg go howdy, we've got human life.
		And it seems to me that when the female part and then the skin part go howdy, we've got human life, no less than.
		They can say, well, it's only a few cells, but it really is as much human life as when it is created through a union.
		The end result, if carried forth, would be the same.
		And don't you, for a second, think they're not going to carry it forth?
		Perhaps they're only going so far and only so many cells are created right now.
		But you and I both know they're going to go the whole way.
		They're going to go all the way, right?
		They're going to create a human being, a clone, or clones.
		And I am honestly, honestly not sure how I feel about it.
		I'm kind of leery.
		I'm kind of leery and a little bit afraid of it.
		But of course, that probably comes, those emotions, you know, they come with all new incredible discoveries like this, don't they?
		So anyway, this hour, I would like to sample your feeling about this.
		And that's exactly what we're going to do with Open Lines.
		It is an amazing story.
		Absolutely amazing.
		Outside of a man, outside of a woman, we have now created human life.
		You could take the argument that if God had not meant for us to do this, we would not be doing it.
		You could also certainly take the argument that we are going to create monsters.
		And who's going to care for these monsters?
		Humans that are not quite right.
		There will be, you know, certainly failed experiments.
		who will care for these failed experiments?
		Will they have...
		That's a question you can bet the courts are going to have to address.
		Will they be human?
		Ah, these are some times we live in, aren't they?
		So open lines on that subject coming up, or any subject, in a moment.
		Christmas is now right around the corner, of course.
		And can there be any better gift in the world, there is not, let me tell you, than the CC Radio Plus.
		The CC Radio was the best radio in the world.
		The CC Radio is still the best radio in the world.
		There is no other radio that even gets close.
		No competition that can even begin to scrape the bottom of this radio, get even close to this radio.
		It'll pick up radio stations that other radios don't even have a clue about.
		But now comes the CC Plus.
		What a great Christmas present.
		Same price, $159.95.
		It's got all the same things as CC Radio had.
		The incredible sensitivity.
		The AM, the FM, the television audio, the weather radio, the weather alarm, all the rest of it.
	But the CC Radio Plus has added a timer that automatically at the appointed time switches to your favorite show.
	So no matter what you might be listening to, music or some other thing, if, say, my talk show comes on, boom, the radio switches automatically and away it goes.
	It's got audio in and out jacks for recording and playback.
	Thank you very much.
	It's got an external AM antenna for mobile use, or perhaps you live in a brick or metal building and want a better signal.
	It's now got, and I really applaud this one, a signal strength meter and a battery strength meter.
	FM stereo now comes through the headphones.
	All of these things new in the CC Radio Plus.
	If you already own a CC Radio, great reason to get another one.
	If not, oh, what a Christmas present this would make.
	$159.95 and it's worth every penny batteries, or you plug it into the wall.
	So many features, I could never tell you about them all.
	It is the consummate Christmas present.
	Call the Sea Crane Company in the morning at 6.30 a.m. Pacific time at 1-800-522-8863.
	That's 1-800-522-8863.
	See it if you will and wish on the web at ccradio.com.
	That's ccradio.com.
	It's got its own website.
	Now, how would you like to feel 10 years younger in 10 weeks?
	That can be done with human growth hormone, but it does not stop there.
	It goes forward.
	In other words, after you are feeling 10 Years younger, then you will begin to look in the mirror.
	And to your amazement, as you continue the regimen, the wrinkles will begin to smooth out.
	Not because they're covered, not because they've got a miracle cream, but because they're really going away.
	You are getting younger.
	You're actually getting younger.
	And with it, other things will begin to happen.
	Sex will be better, more frequent, more energetic.
	You'll be more energetic generally.
	Improved memory, sharper vision.
	Your vision will begin to go the other way.
	Instead of getting blurrier, it'll get sharper.
	Improved cholesterol profile, regeneration of all your vital organs, mood elevation, stronger bones, everything you associate with getting younger.
	HGH, human growth hormone.
	Ultimate HGH is the product.
	It's only about $33 a month.
	That's all.
	$33 a month.
	Give it a try.
	We'll send you a wonderful $20 value book so you can read about everything that's happening to you as it's happening.
	If you call Great American Products and order Ultimate HGH right now.
	1-800-557-4627.
	That's 1-800-557-4627.
	So they had to jumpstart this little affair with electricity, and then it began to live.
	I'm sure they would argue with that fact, and they would say, not live, art.
	You know, the cells began to divide.
	The process of life began, but we didn't let it go on.
	Still.
	And it begins multiplying.
	Would be a human being if they let it go.
	Amazing times we live in.
	First time caller line, you are on the air.
	Hello.
unidentified		Oh my gosh, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my gosh.
		Yes, you're on the air.
		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Las Vegas.
		I'm from Seattle.
		My name is Lindsay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just over the hill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Lindsay.
unidentified		Hey, I, well, I have two things.
unidentified		First of all, we love the show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		And secondly, I was out in Perup, and I took a picture of your house, and I have a picture of a craft above your house, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have a picture of a craft above my house?
unidentified		You small?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, there have been many, many, many sightings of weird things in Perump.
		There was a cause bulletin on it recently.
		So are you serious?
unidentified		I was thinking it was a rod?
		I wasn't sure if it was a rod if it was a craft because I didn't see it when I was there.
		I left you a little note on your garage.
		On your garage, on your fence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On my fence.
		All right.
		Well, I'll tell you what you do.
		You send me that photograph.
unidentified		I will.
unidentified		Should I scan it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, okay.
		So it's a regular photograph.
		Can you scan?
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, scan the photograph and send it to me.
unidentified		Oh, my gosh.
		I'm in love with you that can't believe I'm going to be here.
		But anyways, that's all.
		I just saw the craft that I was freaking out.
		I couldn't believe it.
		And I didn't see it there, though.
		It's just in the picture.
		I don't know.
		And it's in two different pictures.
		And the other thing is we went to Area 51.
		I came down to see my mom and we went out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what did you see?
unidentified		Well, in one of the pictures from there, which is on a completely different camera, there's the same little thing.
unidentified		It's kind of cigar-shaped.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Send me that photograph as well.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll look for both, and if they're good, I'll put them up for everybody to see.
unidentified		Okay.
		Okay.
		One other thing.
		I had a question.
		Yes.
		You had Atlantis on the other night?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I had a story about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It may be Atlantis, yes.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		I was thinking, I was wondering, do you think Atlanteans deal with shadow people?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		Thank you.
		I think shadow people have been around for the Atlanteans and the Romans and the Greeks and everybody who's been on Earth.
		And that may go back somewhat further than we believe.
		Well, gee, a craft over my house.
		A craft over my house.
		Wonderful.
		I'll look forward to seeing that photograph.
		Wildcardline, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
		Shall we dance?
		Hello?
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that all you can say?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've got the hello part done now.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Actually, I called this number because I want to know how to subscribe to your program.
unidentified		I can't get it on the internet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can't?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why not?
unidentified		Well, I can't find the place where you're supposed to register.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's at artbell.com.
unidentified		Well, I'm there.
unidentified		But I can't get your program anymore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the registration...
unidentified		Terribly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The registration information is right there.
unidentified		Where?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's see.
		I'm on my own website.
		This info.
		Wait a minute here.
		Haven't even looked myself, so what do I know?
		Let's see.
		I would think under program and then live streaming.
		Oh, yeah.
		Okay.
		Live streaming audio.
		Right?
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And when you click on live streaming audio, then there's something very bold that says click here to subscribe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I'm not a computer genius, but I would think that click here to subscribe is probably a clue.
unidentified		The after dark place is where I went and it said click here to subscribe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, after dark is the newsletter.
unidentified		I found that out.
unidentified		I'm relatively new to your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, that's all right.
		Anyway, that's the giveaway.
		Click here to subscribe.
		All right?
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anything else?
unidentified		That's it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's it.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then you're on your way.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Going once.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Hi, Air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off.
unidentified		It's off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is your first name?
unidentified		I'm Nancy.
unidentified		I'm in Rochester, Minnesota.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Nancy, what's up?
unidentified		And I'd like to talk to you about cloning.
unidentified		And I have a real short ghost story for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, let's hold it to cloning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's your view of cloning?
unidentified		My view of cloning is like it's mixed emotions because, you know, for one thing, it's tampering with things that should be done by God.
unidentified		But there's another side to it, too, if it can help people and save lives.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder if people are upset With it, you know, they were shocked and surprised when we cloned Dolly the sheep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You remember that?
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But now, all of a sudden, that it's a human being, it's a whole different story.
		And all of a sudden, it's really, really big news.
		We've cloned a human being.
		Do you think that people are angry because there's not apparently a lot of difference and difficulty between cloning Dolly and cloning the human being?
unidentified		I think that there are going to be people who are going to be angry about it anyway, regardless of what they do.
unidentified		It's just something to complain about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Something to complain about.
		Well, all right, but I'm not sure that's entirely fair to the critics.
		I think it may be more than something to complain about.
		I do think that, you know, not so many people said, oh, it's so wrong.
		It's wrong, it's wrong, it's wrong with Dolly.
		But we did at that time look ahead toward the day when they might clone a human being, and now that day is today.
		And I think people may be upset because they like to sort of feature that there's a whole lot of difference between us and a sheep or a monkey or whatever, even though genetically we know there's very, very little difference indeed.
		Just not much difference between some primates and a human.
		So I've got a feeling that some of the anger that we're hearing on, you know, about cloning or the cloning of a human being is the fact that in some way it makes people understand there's not a whole hell of a lot of difference.
		There really isn't.
		And they thought, well, cloning a human is going to be impossible.
		Yeah, sure, you can clone sheep.
		Sure, you can clone a monkey or move a head of a monkey from one monkey to another.
		But a human being, no, no, no, no.
		A human being is special in the eyes and hands of God.
		And we will not clone a human being.
		Well, guess what, folks?
		It's now been done.
		If they'd let it grow, it would have been a human being.
unidentified		I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that's another argument altogether.
		Would it really have been a human being?
		Man, what a story.
		I'm Art Bell from the high desert.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast AM.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Send in the clones, huh?
		Keep that dial right where you've got it.
		It's going to be a wild night tonight.
unidentified		Sweet Jeeps are made of the end.
		Whoever mind is a green.
		I travel the world and never see.
		Everybody is looking for something.
		Some of them want to use you.
		Some of them want to get used by you.
		Some of them want to use you.
		Some of them want to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Information.
unidentified		Information.
		Every night I hope and pray.
		A dream lover will come my way.
		Girl, I hope you're my magic of God alone.
		Girl, my home, dream lover.
		I don't have to dream.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All you do is take a little tank of hair and a little skin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
unidentified		Folks, we have flown to reach out, Belle, the Lord, Kingdom of Nai.
		From west to the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechard on the full-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operators and add them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with our bell on the Premier Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A hank of hair and a little skin, and away we go.
		You've got your dream lover, maybe, or your nightmare.
		And I guess that's the controversy, isn't it?
		My wife made a very interesting observation.
		She said, honey, did you happen to notice that they did this over the Thanksgiving weekend?
		I mean, here we are in the middle of a war, and everybody takes a slight breather over a Thanksgiving weekend, and then all of a sudden, out of nowhere, over the Thanksgiving holiday weekend, a whoosh, we have cloned.
unidentified		You've heard Art Bell talk about technical remote viewing and how the military kept it a secret for 17 years.
		I'm Dane Spotts, CEO of SciTech, the company that ushered this classified technology out of military intel.
		SciTech is looking for qualified people to become skilled remote viewers.
		Call me at 1-800-600-4001 and I'll send you a free video that shows you how.
		And for the first 500 callers, I'll enclose a special report on the next terrorist attack.
		Listen, a skilled remote viewer really can foretell future events.
		Discover medical cures, missing people, new inventions, business trends, lost treasures, even when at the racetrack.
		Call 1-800-600-4001 for your free video and special report on the next terrorist attack for just the cost of shipping.
		The number is 800-600-4001 or online at remoteviewing.com.
		Since we were children, we've been told to reach for the star.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would a clone have normal human rights?
		You know, the dual rights and all that, would they apply to a clone?
		I'm not exactly sure.
		And all of this would get run through the courts, to be sure.
		One night, just for fun, I asked my audience to respond that if they had the ability to have a clone, that would be a human being genetically altered to be not bright at all, to not be smart, not have intelligence, but nevertheless be able to, oh, you know, do dishes, clean the house, change the oil in the car, do all of the things that you'd rather not do.
		Would you have such a being?
		I will say human being because I'm not sure.
		I suspect human being.
		Anyway, would you have such a being available to you?
		If you could buy a clone to do all the dirty work for you, would you do it?
		And most people, when they answered honestly, said yes.
		Now, do you for one second believe that the few cells that they claim they have produced is where they're going to stop?
		Or do you think it more likely they will go on and clone a human being?
		Is there really any question at all?
		I think not.
		First time caller line, you are on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, where are you?
unidentified		From Montgomery, Minnesota.
unidentified		My name is June, and I have Parkinson's disease.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		June?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, June.
		Sorry to hear about that.
		Of course, that's one of the things they say they're pursuing with this technology.
unidentified		Well, they can just pursue all they want.
unidentified		I would have nothing to do with anything like that cloning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you wouldn't?
unidentified		And I'd like to say one thing about Ramona.
		God bless her.
		I hope she can influence you to have a better feeling about this, that it's entirely wrong.
		Another thing, they can't create a soul.
		Only God can do that.
		So I think these little things that they're trying to do are just monstrous, terrible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But how do you know that if we do the creation part and we create a human being, that God would not inculcate that being with a soul?
unidentified		No, I don't think so because God creates differently.
		God doesn't create from test tubes and experimentation.
		He just knows when the soul is going to be born and the soul is there, and that's something they're overlooking.
		And I think it's evil and it's monstrous, and I would have no part of it.
		No matter how ill I was with the Parkinson's disease, I would have no part of it.
		I think America should wake up and realize these things are totally evil.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You may well be right.
		I honestly don't know.
		I really, honestly, don't know.
unidentified		I enjoy your program as often as I can, and I think you're just great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you so much, Jim.
		Take care.
		Take care.
		Well, that's one very strong view, and I think that my wife shares that.
		And it may well be that these beings will not have souls.
		Now, wouldn't that be some sort of something for a scientist to ponder?
		If what they created seemed physically to be human, but lacked human qualities.
		In other words, was significantly different than the rest of the gene pool?
		On the other hand, what if the person appeared to be very much the same?
		Grew up to be a devout Catholic or Jew or whatever.
		Then what?
		Boy, talk about being off in uncharted territory.
		I'm going to try and dredge up a guest on cloning.
		I think that we need a guest more on the ethics of cloning than we do on the specific how-to part of it.
		I don't really need a scientist.
		I need somebody to speak about the ethics and the morality of cloning.
		I'd love to have Michael Cordy.
		Michael Cordy is one of my favorite authors, and he wrote on the subject specifically about the cloning of Jesus Christ.
		What a book that was.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good evening, Ark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How's your back?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely spiffy, thank you.
unidentified		Oh, wonderful.
		Very glad to hear that.
		You have mentioned creation of human beings that would be for subservient purposes.
		Of course, that's straight out of Huxley, Brave New World, where you had your alphas, betas, deltas, epsilons, etc.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, but now it's possible.
unidentified		I shudder to think that we'd ever go that road, but I hope that instead we would use this to cleanse the human gene pool of some 4,000-plus inherited genetic effects, some of which you and I both suffer from, and I think our great-great-grandchildren would thank us, brave, poor, beetle-browed souls who dared to invent fire and to cleanse the world of bad things.
		Like any technology, its potential for good and evil is roughly equal.
		It's up to us to decide what to do with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
		And I don't know how they can put the genie back in the bottle.
		My understanding is the British are proceeding ahead.
		We're considering a moratorium or even a ban.
		And I don't know.
		I just don't know if you can stop technology like that.
unidentified		Well, Art, when has the human race ever, when able to do something, has not gone ahead and done it, number one.
unidentified		And number two.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Never.
unidentified		Number two, more importantly, if this is what is revealed to us now, what is the actual true state of progress?
unidentified		What has maybe been done somewhere that we don't know about?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're exactly right, sir.
		I've said it for a long time.
		In private labs somewhere around the country, you know damn well there's a baby crying probably being nursed right now.
unidentified		Amen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate the call, sir.
		Right.
		It's just that what I think the shocker of this is that we now know it's possible.
		All they had to do was let it continue to grow and it would be a being.
		I'm not going to say human being because I don't know.
		It would be a created being.
		Now, it's not totally our creation.
		That's yet another way to look at it.
		In other words, the information from the egg, the information from the skin continues to be human DNA on both sides, right?
		So it's just that we are artificially joining them instead of the normal act of love, artificially joining them.
		Now, the next step, of course, is manipulation, and that's not very far behind.
		So could you create a clone that would be not intelligent, one that could do the chores and the work for you without complaint?
		Yes, very soon.
		That can be done.
unidentified		Will we do it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I agree with the last caller.
unidentified		We will probably do whatever we can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And when has that ever stopped us?
		Ever.
		East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
		Good morning.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, I can barely hear you, ma'am.
unidentified		Oh, oh, okay.
unidentified		There you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Speak good and loud into the phone and let her rip.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from?
unidentified		I'm calling from Meadville, Pennsylvania.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Meadville, right?
unidentified		My name's Barb.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Barb.
unidentified		And like I told you before the break there, I'm calling about cloning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Now, do you ever notice when these medical researchers come up with something that's going to make them a fortune, believe me, this is going to make somebody very, very rich.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure.
unidentified		They always come out with the phrase, because it's controversial and they Know that a lot of people aren't going to swallow it.
unidentified		To make it easier to swallow, they always come out with the phrase, it's going to save lives.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
unidentified		Well, will it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I mean, potentially, I guess it could.
		But if you were announcing this, you would say things like, It's going to cure Alzheimer's and diet cancer.
		And cancer, yeah, sure, you'd cure.
unidentified		Cancer, it's going to cure cancer.
unidentified		Well, the thing is that we Christians believe that when God says it's our time, it's our time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if even if we have...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me challenge that a little bit, all right?
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you lost a leg or an arm or something like that, you wouldn't say to yourself or of your daughter or son, well, you know, we'll see what happens here.
		If it's God's will, then little Johnny or Jane is going to go to God.
		That's all there is to it.
		No, you'd rush them to the hospital and you would do every heroic procedure you could do to get their arm reattached and to ensure they didn't bleed to death.
unidentified		So, you know, I don't know.
		No, the thing is that when a Christian believes that you don't die until God wishes you to, then even if you had 10 clones of yourself, these clones would not save you.
		You're going to die anyway.
		So I'm getting kind of sick and tired of hearing that.
		It's going to save lives.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Suppose you needed a new heart or a new liver.
unidentified		So you need one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if one's available from a clone and you don't die because you got it.
unidentified		So that's reducing a clone to the next thing next to rogue kill.
unidentified		Yeah, parts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it may be that they could breed a clone.
unidentified		No, I'm like your other clover there, I'll tell you.
		Evil.
		If I had the money, and it's going to cost a lot, if I had the money to have myself, some of my body tissue cloned, I would refuse.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You would die before you would do that.
unidentified		I don't want to be a donor of someone's body organs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But if they could create a clone that essentially didn't have a brain or had such a small brain that could only keep motor functions going, you know, breathing and heartbeat and all the rest of it, otherwise didn't have a brain, but had the body parts available for you, you would not accept those body parts, correct?
unidentified		No, I would not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, your position is clear, and I thank you very much for the call.
		I think there are going to be many, many, many people like that lady.
		And I mean, no disrespect at all, but I wonder how many of these people, if actually faced with death and the option of continuing to live with a, apart from a clone, would then really refuse.
		It's really hard to know until you really got a person in that position.
		It's very easy to sit back on the moral high ground when you're not ill, not fatally ill, but would you maintain that moral high ground if you were really pressed?
		I don't know.
		We're going to answer a lot of very interesting questions about ourselves as this continues.
		Don't you think?
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good evening, Mr. Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, pray tell?
unidentified		East of the Pacific.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Pacific.
unidentified		Okay.
		I would like to address the two points here.
		Number one, background on the company and on the man that created this, that heads the clinic.
		And secondly, exactly what he has done.
		I have done some serious research into this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And?
unidentified		Number one, the company you mentioned is Advanced Sale Technologies out of Worcester, Massachusetts.
		It's a privately held company.
		It employs 200 people.
		And it's headed by Dr. Michael West, who would be the gentleman that you want to get on the show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'd love to have Dr. West.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I doubt that under the current conditions I'll be able to get him, but we'll get somebody going.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Or a bioethicist, by the way, is the type of person you would want on your ethics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't really want a scientist because I think I, at least to some degree, understand what they have done.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want to understand whether we should do it.
unidentified		And exactly what they've done there is that they've created a first human embryo clone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And the gentleman, Michael West, sounds like a very interesting character.
		I've heard him described as a visionary, a Renaissance man that has studied theology and philosophy.
		And he is targeting therapeutic versus reproductive cloning.
		And what he had created was a one-cell division into six, which was in order to actually, which is just a basic first step art of not even, he's not even close to developing a dolly.
		Not even close.
		The pros are saying that you need approximately 100 cell divisions to create stem cells.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it's coming, sir.
unidentified		And that needs to develop what they call blastius, which is actually a placenta for the stem cells.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but it's coming.
unidentified		The next step is there.
		But then, of course, you know that a company called Clone Aid out of Italy is on the verge and has a waiting list.
		The one aspect of this is that if it does happen, it happens in the United States and it happens under some type of oversight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look, do we shut it down?
		Do we impose a moratorium or a total ban and allow the rest of the world to continue?
		Or do we continue research here?
unidentified		Or does Michael West move to another country where it will be allowed and proceed further?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Already some of our scientists have made their way to Britain where they know it's going to continue.
		So what is your view?
		Should we continue here?
unidentified		I think that it'd be best here on our homelands than going ahead and having our scientists and our research people go elsewhere.
		And the reason for that is that it's going to happen anyway.
		It's a matter of time.
		Brave new world out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
		I have a feeling he's right.
		And I know that a lot of you think this is horrific.
		And I may join you in believing that.
		I'm not really sure yet.
		You know, isn't it strange I have not made up my mind about this?
		I really haven't.
		It's going to take a lot of thought.
		And while I'm thinking, they're going to be doing it anyway, aren't they?
		First-time caller line, you are on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello.
		Good morning, Art.
		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off, please.
		It's always first.
		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		Well, calling you from Las Vellon, New Mexico, is the 977 KKOB.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the one, yes, sir.
unidentified		It's very interesting to hear the folks talk about whether they have souls or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If they truly don't, then, kind of on the other hand, wouldn't there be an avenue for them to you know, if they don't have souls, that would be of great comfort to the Christian community in a way.
		If they are created and they're atypical, they're not really human as we understand humans.
		Perhaps they have no conscience.
		Perhaps, you know, something really different about human clones.
		Then the Christians would have something to say, aha, they are soulless.
		And that would bolster their faith in one way or another if they need it.
		It would certainly bolster their faith, wouldn't it?
unidentified		Right, Arp.
		Do you think being, feeling human beings with compassion and understanding, wouldn't we tend to become attached to these, to these clowns?
		I mean, how would we, how would we separate the difference between...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean?
unidentified		Well, if you look at it, we're used to looking at other human beings, and some people are saying, well, if they don't have a soul, then they're really not people.
		They're basically just a farm for people in real need of organs to keep living.
		It would be hard to look at them.
		I don't know if it would or not, but to me, I guess someone having the same fingerprints as me would...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, here's the easiest way for me to ask.
		You're sick, sir.
		You have two lungs that, for whatever reason, cancel whatever, are no longer going to be workable for you within, say, three months.
		You have three months to live.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's a clone available.
		It could give you its lungs.
		It doesn't really have a brain as you do.
		It would not have any say in whether or not you take its lungs.
		If you take its lungs, you live.
		If you don't, you die.
		Would you take those lungs?
unidentified		Yes, I would, and I'd be very thankful for the technology that brought it to me.
unidentified		And because thereby my whole family would be enraged by me being around a little longer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe, but what about the fact that this clone with essentially no brain still has a soul, a human soul.
		And so when you take its lungs, it ceases to live.
		Have you sinned?
		Wow, Art.
unidentified		That's why I love your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, would it be something you would give a lot of thought to before you would do?
unidentified		Oh, definitely.
unidentified		Yes, definitely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you feel...
		it's soul searching for sure it's definitely yeah yeah I assume that you would go ahead and do a thousand-honest answer.
		Do you think you would feel guilty?
unidentified		Maybe that would be the balancing thing.
		How would I feel like I'm taking from someone?
		But at the outset, wouldn't the purpose be for this outcome for me to be received?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
unidentified		Crime might have to go well.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely, but it still might be murder.
unidentified		Hmm.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, listen, I appreciate it.
		We're going to have a guest on this subject.
		Yes, thank you for calling, sir.
		You take care.
		I'm Art Bell.
		Glenn Kimball is next with a discovery made in Illinois in the ground.
		It's amazing.
		Stay right where you are, as the saying goes.
		Don't touch that dial.
unidentified		You think of people, that ain't another silly love song.
		They're looking around me and I see it isn't so.
		Some people want to fill the world with silly love songs.
		What's wrong with that?
		I'd like to know what's a matter of way to mind my audience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're not accepting snail mail.
		We are, however, accepting email.
		So if you want to get in contact with us, email is away.
		I'm Art Bell.
		That's A-R-T-B-E-L-L at MindSpring.com.
		Artbell at MindSpring.com.
		And just before we jump into what's coming up this hour with Glenn Kimball, a reminder on my website, artvell.com right now, exclusive new Round Zero photos.
		These are really dumping.
		And they are exclusive.
		You'll not see them anywhere else.
		We've got photos of my new affiliate.
		Our new affiliate here in Tarumpabata 95.1 KMYE.
		People wanted to see what it looked like, so I took some pictures.
		Not great, sort of done on the spur of the moment, but you'll get the idea that the photos of KMYE 95.1 Tarumpabata on my website.
		Now, last week, we had an astounding revelation from Lindemoltown about what's going on on the Coast Cuba on the western coast of Cuba.
		We're underneath the water at about 2200 feet or about half a mile, half a mile underwater, impossibly deep underwater, there appears to be a city.
		And I mean a city, a building pyramid, roads, everything you would associate with a city, and of course the interview, the incredible interview with Paulina Villiers, who has now not just a radar,
		a radar rather, of the president, but has now taken photographs and has found inscriptions and symbols on what appear to be buildings.
unidentified		It may be Atlantis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tonight, we're going to follow up with Glenn Kimball.
		Not such an exotic location right in the middle of the country in the state of Illinois.
		A cave.
		And we're going to find out about this cave and what's in this cave coming up in a few moments.
		Glenn Kimball is a collector of ancient texts since he was 15 years of age.
		Former president of the International Exchange School.
		Taught at the University of La Paz in Bolivia and Southern Illinois University.
		A best-selling author, lecturer on a variety of historical subjects dealing with ancient texts.
		Did his doctoral study at Southern Illinois University.
		He has lived not only in Bolivia, but also Chile, Peru, and Mexico, having studied in the libraries of Italy, France, England, and the former Yugoslavia.
		Most recently, he's been filming pilots for a new television series slated to air late next year.
		But I'm way behind on this whole cave in Illinois.
		I've been hearing about it sort of hither and yon for a long time, but I want the whole story.
		And tonight, I think we're going to get the whole story, or at least a very great deal of it, if you'll stay right where you are.
		And now here he is, Glenn Kimball.
		Glenn, it's been a long time since you and I have come together on the radio.
		Welcome to the program.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		How are you, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm just fine.
		Thank you.
		Glenn, I'm really behind the curve on this whole cave in Illinois thing.
		I've been hearing about it from, I don't know, about 20 different sources now for a long time, and I don't know where it is, what it is, what's in it, how it was found, and I want to know all of that.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Well, we have to begin and figure out why I'm involved.
		Perhaps that would be a good place to start.
		As you well know, I've lived in South America for a long time, and having been familiarized some years ago with the earliest archaeology and anthropology, Oblivia, and Peru specifically, though there's extensive finds in Chile as well,
		that's something that you can never forget when you're up on the Altiplano standing at Tihuanaco and knowing that these people moved 9 million-pound stones, which are larger by several times over than the largest stones ever lifted in Egypt.
		And this is above the timberline at about 16,000 feet in some cases.
		And you ask yourself, what am I doing with this tremendous civilization here?
		This has got to be a story left untold.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many pounds?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Nine million pound stones.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nine million pounds.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		For example, to give you some perspective of what that might be, the largest stone in the Khufu Pyramid on the Gisa Plateau is the rose granite stone, excuse me, in the burial chamber.
		That's roughly 360,000 pounds.
		So when you're talking about a 9 million-pound stone, you're talking about a very big square rock.
		There is nothing in Egypt that compares to this rock.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they can't even explain what happened in Egypt.
		If you speak with Zahihuas over there, he will tell you straight out, I know how the pyramids were built, or rather who built them.
		But when you ask him how the stones were moved, he shrugs his shoulders and he says, oh, that is a mystery.
		And he has no idea.
		So if he doesn't know how those were moved, 9 million pound stone, my God.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Well, he has an advantage because they had the Nile River right there, and at least they could move timber up the Nile and use timber and levering these things or rolling the stones in Egypt.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		We're talking above the timber line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but nobody has duplicated it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Japanese tried to duplicate that.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		True enough, Glenn.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they could not.
		That's true.
		With the best current new technology, nobody can still do it.
		And that probably means there was some sort of technology that used to exist, probably still does if we knew how to utilize it, that moved these stones.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		What's amazing, though, Art, is that the larger stones are in the West, not in the East.
		And we have to ask ourselves, what's going on here?
		If, in fact, the technology somehow floated from East to West, then you would presume that the technology would be a stronger technology in the Middle East.
		The reality is that it appears, for all intents and purposes, that the technology began here and went east.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Because I'll give you another clue.
		In Egypt, if you were to count the number of archaeological sites, this is a very simplistic way of looking at it, you would find some 1,200 sites in Egypt.
		But let's assume we're off by 7,000 sites, okay, just to be ridiculous.
		And suggest that we're somewhere around 8,000 sites.
		In Bolivia alone, there are 32,000 registered.
		They are all registered archaeological sites, 99% of which have never had a state of dirt uncovered.
		That does not include Peru.
		That does not include Chile.
		That doesn't include any place else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do we know about the dating?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When do we think these 9 million pound stones were moved?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		The 9 million pound stones have been estimated to be somewhere around 1200, 1800 B.C. However, there are archaeological sites that are much earlier than that that are in the region as well.
		So when we're talking about the Egyptian pyramids, Let's put this into some sort of a timeframe here.
		We're talking about 2,700 years B.C. The 9 million pound stones in America around, let's suggest that they're very old and they're 1,800 years B.C. So they're younger by about 900 years.
		However, the mining and the other kinds of processes that were going on in the West are even older than the dating of the pyramids.
		For example, are you there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right here?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay, I'm sorry, I heard a click.
		The dating, the Bronze Age came about in Europe in the Middle East in 3000 BC to 1200 BC.
		The Bronze Age included the use of copper to make bronze, obviously.
		Scholars have been concerned for decades where the Middle East and Western Europe got all the copper from, because they cannot find enough significant mining sources for the copper.
		However, if you come to the Americas in Wisconsin and in Michigan, you find these huge copper mines that date from 3000 B.C. Indeed, but how would the copper have made its way from hither to yon?
		There is a river right from the mines onto the Mississippi, Ohio, down into the Gulf of Mexico.
		There are little map stones that people have used that we find.
		In fact, in this cave tonight, we're going to talk about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, but until 1492, nobody had done that, right?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Sadly, our anthropological history is in error.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It could be wrong?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Not only could it be wrong, but it could be blasphemously wrong.
		Oh, my.
		The problem we have with anthropology in the Americas is that we look, there was some programming the other night on television which suggested that the sources for the Native American Indians, and the whole rationale was, look at their faces and you can tell where they come from.
		And my comment is, if I look at Native American Indians, I can't tell a thing about where they come from.
		And they presume that all, because the Native American Indians were not known to Western Europeans until 1492, basically, and because China itself was an unknown civilization, that somehow these two unknown civilizations crossed an isthmus at the time of the last ice age, and that there was some melding toward the end that let the corridor down through Canada, and therefore the Native American Indians must be predominantly Oriental.
		The answer to that question is, who thought up that idea?
		Because that's silly.
		Because that could not possibly be the predominant source for the Native American Indians.
		So there is little doubt that Native American Indians do have Oriental genes in their body.
		Their body part, there's a piece to the pelvis that is very, I am not a morphologist, so I can't tell you specifically, but there's a piece to the pelvis that is very Oriental in nature and connects it back to the Far East.
		But there are other facial characteristics and bone structures and morphological structures which are very Western European and Middle Eastern.
		So we're talking about a race of people who, because they are an enigma to us, we make wild assertions about their origins.
		And when we start to define origins and make those definitions rigid without having explored all the possibilities, then we introduce error into the system.
		The biggest problem we have in America is that we have rushed to close our minds and to preserve our ideas or philosophies about where we came from, who we are, and what our values are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, though, I think that that is less true of the average person when presented with information like they're getting tonight from you and have had from others, including Linda Moulton Howe and many others, and more true of people who research and write papers in the field.
		I think they're the ones that have pretty much closed the door.
		And, you know, if new information comes along, it threatens careers, Glenn.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's little doubt that you are exactly right, Art, is that we can blame our scholastical institutions for closing the doors on discovery.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How sure are you that they're wrong?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		I am absolutely positive in my own mind.
		Now, if you want me to produce evidence, I can produce a mountain of evidence, but then Carl Sagan's platitude comes into being that preposterous claims or enormous claims require enormous evidence.
		And so we have to decide how much evidence is definitive evidence.
		And I think Carl Sagan was pragmatically right, but he was certainly describing an unfair system.
		We don't play on a level playing field when we talk about discovery.
		When we were kids, Art, didn't you dream about being an explorer or an adventurer?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I did.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Me too.
		But you know, today we could not be Christopher Columbus.
		It's not possible.
		And the reason we couldn't be Christopher Columbus is because we couldn't sail on an ocean to a foreign land, stick a stake in the dirt, and say, I claim this for the kingdom of Nye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, we can't do that anymore.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		But no one's going to let you do that anymore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
		But there are unexplored venues.
		There's under the ground.
		There is space.
		There are new frontiers for us to explore.
		And I know you're squaring into the middle of one right now.
		And I think one frontier is to find out the truth, the real truth, or as much as we can determine about our real origins as a human species.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Well, certainly our origins will help us create the protocol to solve our problems today.
		Every single protocol that we use in our day and age today stem from a historical protocol.
		Every system, our universities are based on a historical system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Glenn, our science has followed a certain kind of linear progression of investigation.
		And as a result, we have the laws of physics and we have other things that we follow.
		And sometimes I think that we don't investigate what we would, I guess, consider alternative avenues because it's just not what you do.
		You follow the prescribed rules.
		And maybe we're operating on the wrong set of rules, or maybe there's just a whole set of rules we don't understand at all.
		But if people were moving rocks and doing things that even today are impossible, that means there was a technology, probably still is, if we knew how to use it, that we simply don't have a clue about.
		There must be.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Well, there most certainly was.
		And there were traffic, and there were three types of traffic that we still have not discussed fairly and openly in the common public.
		We haven't talked about the merchant traffic to the Americas.
		We haven't talked about the drug traffic to the Americas.
		And we most certainly have not talked about the refugees from various crises throughout history who have come to the Americas to escape their crises.
		And there were three major reasons for sailing across the ocean.
		You know, they just made that great big find up in Newfoundland where they found a boat that was 110 feet long that had 100 sailors in it.
		I'm sorry, that was not the size of the Nina, Pinta, and the Santa Maria, which were little teeny, tiny vessels.
		This was a merchant vessel that was coming across from Norway doing business in the Americas.
		You don't sail across an ocean on an exploratory voyage in a 110-foot vessel with 100 men on board rowing.
		This vessel was obviously going back and forth for some other purpose than exploration.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You also heard, I'm sure, about the pending incredible discovery off the coast of Cuba, right?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Most definitely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, somehow that fits into all of this.
		I'm not exactly sure how yet, but it's just another piece of significant evidence pointing toward this incredible lack of knowledge about everything and the way it began and who we are and all the rest of it.
		All right, in a moment, I would like to bring you back and we'll talk about what's been found and what you have explored.
		And folks, we've got photos in the state of Illinois underground.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
		Don't touch that dial.
		We're not talking about Zahi Awas' Egypt.
		We're not talking about Bolivia.
		We're not talking about even what's under the sea and or off the western coast of Cuba.
		What we are talking about is a cave in the state of Illinois.
		And there are a number of questions that I would like answered about this cave.
		Glenn, let me pepper you with a few questions.
		How did you discover this cave?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		While I was doing my stint in Bolivia, Chile and Peru and Mexico, Wayne May was up here doing his archaeological tours of the United States.
		And while we were both on the speaking circuit back here a number of years ago, we met some individuals who had done exploration, obviously at various sites, but most particularly in southern Illinois.
		That was most attractive to me because I had taught at Southern Illinois University and I listened intently to these discoveries.
		They sounded preposterous except to say that having lived in Southern Illinois, I knew that Southern Illinois itself is called Little Egypt and still is to this very day.
		It's the site of Cairo, Illinois, or Cairo, Illinois, they call it, or Cairo, and Memphis, Tennessee.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but he told you about the location of the cave?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there was a gentleman at one of these conventions that told us about a cave specifically in southern Illinois, and Wayne, first of all, and then later myself, we cornered him and asked him the actual location.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		He asked for a sum of money to take us to that cave site, and believe it or not, we did it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You did?
		Yeah.
		So you paid your way in, really?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Well, we paid our way to the site.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Outrageous sum of money?
		I don't need to know the exact amount.
		I mean, a lot of money?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		It was enough money to where it stung.
		However, the plan was not to give the entire sum of money until we were actually inside the cave.
		And the reality is the individual ducked out of lunch with a goodly sized check and disappeared.
		And so what happened is Wayne specifically and some of the boys from Discovery Resources were left very angry.
		They decided to do the very natural thing, which was to go to the county recorder and find out who owned the ground that they were standing on.
		And they did find out that this did not belong to the individual that they had been talking to and went to the owner of the property and said, have you heard any rumors about people doing archaeological work on your site?
		And the owner said, no.
		They had never heard of such a thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you tell us where this cave is or do you not tell us?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		I don't ever tell anybody the exact location.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		I don't need the woodstock and the forest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's my understanding that the people in the town...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Will you?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's mark that one down as something that I guess I should do.
		But the people in the town in question, without mentioning it, are not aware of it.
		You know that, don't you?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		That's not correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is not correct?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		That is not correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we have some people checking in that town, and they said they were unaware of any archaeological digs going on.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Well, they have to ask the right people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Apparently, so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, I guess it's not.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		And I don't want to violate someone's privacy to give someone's name out of the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then this is privately owned land, is that correct?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Very definitely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Some farmer or something like that?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		A very nice family who has had this property for four generations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the money that you paid, what did that supposedly include?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That included, in other words, did you think you were buying the land on which this gave?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely not.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		We were buying a story for the magazine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A story for the magazine.
unidentified		Right.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Which is totally logical.
		I mean, you do that from time to time.
		And it was such a big story that we thought we'd get some good press, or at least Wayne thought he'd get some good press out of that.
		And the fact of the matter remains is that the gentleman didn't come through.
		And so, in essence, they parted sheets at that moment.
		And what eventually happened here was that Wayne went to the property owners.
		They denied that there was any archaeology on the site.
		But Wayne being the intrepid explorer, this guy has got more enthusiasm than you and I both.
		This guy is really a go-getter.
		And he has to be to do the kind of work he does in the journalistic field.
		But in either case, what they did is they went and Discovery Resources had some equipment.
		They had some GPRs and sonograms.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		GPRs?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's a GPR?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		A GPR is above-ground electromagnetic detection equipment that tells you what's underneath the surface of the ground.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Metal detection, you mean?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		No, actually, a sonogram.
		It tells you the geological structures.
		They did have a piece of metal detection equipment with them as well, which is a different piece of equipment.
		So there were really four pieces of equipment used on the site.
		They drove this equipment over just to check out to see if this guy was lying because, you know, maybe we'll hold crucifixions on his lawn, you know, thank the king, you know.
		So you got permission from the owner of the land to, by the way, while Wayne was sitting in the home of the landowner, the gentleman in question called and complained that there were looters on his property taking archaeological artifacts off the site.
		And the owner of the property said, you mean the gentleman sitting in my living room?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's quite a story.
		So it kind of gives new meaning to the word whoops, you know.
		But in either case, what they did is they drove some equipment across the ground and they got some hits.
		They found out that this place was a cavernous monster filled with the limestone caverns.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were there actually any openings to explore, or was this just all above-ground sort of looking?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		The landlord seemed to indicate that there had been a couple of cave openings.
		However, when Wayne and I went back, there were no cave openings anywhere on the property, and the farmer could not any longer locate the openings to the cavern.
		And to be honest with you, in our last little venture here two weeks ago, we found out why we could not find any openings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why not?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		We've taken horizontal sonograms and found out that the entrance, the original entrance to the cave, has been blown to a million smithereens by black powder explosion and dumped about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, somebody closed it up.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Someone deliberately blew it up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have any idea when that occurred, time frame?
unidentified		Yes.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		It looks like a modern event, probably 15 to 20 years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		So somebody really let's think about this.
		They don't want what's down there found.
		They don't want it desecrated.
		They don't want it explored.
		What?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		They want to cover the tracks, Arc, because they've looted the cave.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		That's my opinion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because they've looted the cave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What good would it do, Glenn, to remove the artifacts from the cave below the cave entrance and then not be able to give any history of what you got?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Because many of the artifacts were, in fact, precious metal, which were converted into cash.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As in gold and whatever.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		And so, you know, some artifacts can be sold for money, but gold is a very short trip to the bank.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it certainly is, but wouldn't such a discovery be so incredible so that the artifacts would be worth so much more for what they are rather than, you know, the weight, the metal weight?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Art, you're talking about someone who has your intelligence.
		I suspect that these people were not as bright as you are.
		Pardon me, I don't want to offend anybody out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or maybe they didn't have the rights to these things.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's no doubt they had no right.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		It's like going onto your property and saying, please let me borrow all your wheat off your wheat field, and I'm not going to pay you for it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, that might explain motive then.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		All right.
		So they blew these things to Helen back.
		The cave entrances are gone.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Well, the cave entrance was interesting for one reason, Art, because it was a 110-foot spiral stone-carved staircase down into the ground.
unidentified		What?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you know that?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Pictures.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Excuse me?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're talking about sonograms here.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Detection equipment detected that there was a 110-foot spiral staircase from the surface down into the lower cavern.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy mackerel.
		All right.
		How far down can your equipment provide imagery?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		That's really stretching it right there, to be honest with you.
		It goes a little farther.
		Depending upon the terrain and the water tables and other things, we're lucky this is a little bit of a rolling hill and we were taking a sideways glance to it.
		So we're really not talking about the full 110 feet.
		We're talking about a sideways view of it on a hill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
		So instead of going straight down, you're looking to some degree sideways, probably.
		That's right.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		And part of the problem, our original problem in finding a site to begin with was all of our detection equipment was straight down through the earth, and so we had a two-dimensional map.
		And when we got the horizontal equipment on site here two weeks ago, we realized how we had made a terrible blunder in picking the site to open the cave that we did.
		Because everything was true about the door that we had chosen, with the exception that it had been blown to smithereens.
		And the interior of it was debris-laden all the way down through the staircase.
		So there was no passageway, and there was no reasonable timeframe to excavate that out.
		So what we did is we went back.
		This cavern is really about 520.
		It's an inverted V-shape.
		And by the way, that picture is on your website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		I'm looking at any number of photographs.
		And I just soon start at the beginning because that's where everybody's going to start.
		Folks, to see the photographs we're about to talk about, go to artbell.com.
		Under program tonight's guest info, click on that.
		When you do, you'll see the name Glenn Kimball.
		Below that, you'll see photos, a link that says photos of artifacts and analysis.
		Click on that and follow along with us.
		These claim to be from the cave in Illinois.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Now, these are artifacts that are either held by Wayne May or myself or by the local collectors.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		So when you say nobody in the town knows what we're talking about, someone's giving you a little bit of ben poop here because there are people who have collections all over the place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's put it this way.
		It's not front-page news in that town, so a lot of people don't know about it.
		All right, now look, let's take this first photograph.
		What have we got here?
		I can't even.
		What is this?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		This very first photograph is illustrative of probably one of the original groups of people who came to the cave site.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		The most interesting thing about this picture are the side locks of hair.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is in stone, right?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Very much so.
unidentified		Okay.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		And it has a little ruler underneath it.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		I believe there's some sort of a dimension on how big it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a one-foot ruler?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		So these are, by the way, there are some 7,000 of these particular artifacts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where did you get this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did this come from above ground?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Did this come from private collectors in the neighborhood?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the neighborhood.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Who had been sold these artifacts by the people who had obviously looted the cave?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy smokes.
		All right, so I can't quite.
		In other words, it's very clear what I'm seeing, but I don't know what it is.
		It's a photograph of a person.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Well, we don't know either.
		With the exception of the dress, it's very typical of, you know, it's hard for me to put 7,000 photos on that.
		But it's illustrative of a very common type of dress, and we're going to see several of the common types of dress.
		There's really three separate motifs here.
		One is a very Palestinian motive with the Jewish locks and the hair and the headdress, which is very Jewish.
		If you go down to the very bottom of that very same page, you'll see a dark slate-like rock.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm there.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		And you'll see another one of the very prominently displayed type of people who were involved in this cave, which were obviously a very black race.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a black stone.
		I guess it represents...
		I can.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		You can?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		These people, I'll tell you the story we're putting the pieces of the story together this way.
		If you go to the very last phase, and I apologize, these are not in order, and we probably haven't rehearsed this well enough, but the very last picture on this, on these three segments of photographs, is another black figure who is wearing a very typical headdress, a very dated headdress.
		This headdress that he is wearing is of a Maury sailor off the northern coast of Africa in the first century.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		So, in other words, the headdress is absolutely critical in dating the people who were inside this cave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now I'm looking at the first photograph on the second page, and it looks like somebody holding a staff of some sort.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Okay, now that one's not the one.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		We'll talk about that one in a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And which one are you talking about?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		It's on the third page.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Third page, okay.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Okay, and you go to the very bottom.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, a lot of photographs here.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		You go to the very bottom, and you'll see another black stone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay, I'm there.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		And you notice the little headdress with a little peak on the front of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		That is a very, very typical headdress.
		Now, these are sailing headdresses.
		These are the Moorish sailors who sailed in the first century off the northern coast of Africa.
		To put this into perspective, if you saw the movie Gladiator and you saw him in the Colosseums, in the Dusty Coliseums, they were Colosseums on the northern coast of Africa in the first century.
		Now, obviously, the ones in Gladiator were at the time of Marcus Aurelius in 125 A.D., 124 A.D. roughly.
		But these sailors were just being phased out at that particular moment in time.
		And you notice in the movie Gladiator 2 that they also had one of the characters was a moi sailor.
		And if you look very closely, you'll see some of these kinds of headdresses there as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, and again, all of these thus far have come from people in the area who received these from whoever removed them from the cave.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And how long ago did they become in receipt of these?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		1984.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		82 to 84.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		82 to 84.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Which corresponds with the oral traditions of the cave and what happened there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you take these to experts and you say, what is this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do they say?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Well, they say what every logical archaeologist would say, where's your providence?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		And they're absolutely correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where is your providence?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and they're absolutely right.
		There is no providence for these particular artifacts.
		That's why we've hired a professional archaeologist with a license for the state of Illinois when we go back into the cave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, how do you know that these came from that cave in Illinois?
		How do you know that?
		How can you know that?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Well, other than people's word and one other thing, and that is a consistency amongst the collections, and that when we go back into the cave, the only hope for these artifacts to be worth anything or to be of any value historically to anybody is for us to actually open the cave and find similar artifacts.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Otherwise, they're worthless.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What would an expert tell you if he didn't believe they came from a cave there in Illinois?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where would he think they came from?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Well, in this particular case, he would think that they came from Northern Africa or Alexandria, Egypt, or the southern coast of Palestine near Jerusalem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he would probably certainly think that way before he would think a cave in Illinois.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Almost certainly.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Illinois is a preposterous suggestion to these people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is preposterous.
		And why do you not think it's preposterous?
		Why do you not think so?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're going to provide a little bit of that evidence tonight, Art, because we have some more photos here to look at.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		We have been there in the last two weeks, and we've taken new photographs down through the center of the earth, and we have some marvelous things to show that have been first time nowhere else seen ever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, that's what's coming up next.
		Stay right where you are.
		Glenn Kimball is my guest.
		Archaeology in the middle of Illinois.
		I guess so.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		I'm Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Riders of the storm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Riders of the storm.
unidentified		Into the dockerboard.
		Into this world with gold.
		Like a dog without a bone.
		It's back to the road.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Riders of the star.
unidentified		It's a killer of the road.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's great.
unidentified		It's worth it like a dog.
		Take a long holiday.
		Let your children play.
		Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, here's Glenn Kimball and Glenn.
		The second photograph down on the first page shows what appear to be golden-colored artifacts with inscriptions on them, some kind of writing.
		One appears to be obviously Egyptian.
		No question about it.
		It's Egyptian.
		It must be.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		These are gold.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They are gold?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Solid gold.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Solid gold.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		And they are.
		A couple of the pieces are in our possession.
		Some of them are not.
		Some of them are in the possession of the locals.
		I'm telling you, if you're going to manufacture artifacts, don't do it out of gold.
		It's very expensive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		So you've got some of these.
		You're in physical possession of some of these, and some are in local hands in the area of this cave or in the town where they're.
		That's correct.
		How far geographically around the town were these artifacts sold?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		2,000 miles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		2,000 miles?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's two-thirds of America.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
		There's some in California.
		There's some in New York.
		One of the most precious artifacts that we will be looking for to have returned is in Chicago.
		We have a trace out on that.
		We have trace out on banking and all kinds of things out.
		Where were you finding hits?
		So we're not going to try a case here on the air tonight, are we?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To the people that these artifacts were sold, how were they represented?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Represented as coming from where?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		The golden artifacts were represented as merely antiquities, gold weight value.
		And I think the owner, from his own lips, sold short on the actual gold itself.
		The antiquities, the stones, were sold after people would show interest in the tale of Illinois, and he would say, would you like a stone from the cave, or ten stones, or a hundred stones, or in some cases, 500 stones?
		And he would sell them in lots.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but they were represented as coming from a cave in Illinois.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		All right.
		You would think that people in possession of something like this would instead represent them as coming from, I don't know, South America or perhaps Egypt or something more likely and easier to sell as a story.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Well, I find the people that I've talked to that are in possession of artifacts and as they've been so kind to just display, I had one gentleman just open up his garage and lay out so many of them it took us all day to film.
		These people are generally serious, very concerned, very nice people.
		I mean, I used to live there.
		I fell in love with the area.
		They're nice people.
		And we're not talking about people who have grandiose ideas, by and large, about what's going on here.
		They largely love to be included, to be a participant in what they feel will be eventually a major find in America.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, fine.
		How do we take this story from myth and legend to some sort of grounding in reality?
		In other words, what have you done in the last two weeks?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's very important that we understand.
		If we go to the second page of the photos, there's a map.
		Let's see how far down is it?
		I think it's three pictures down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see it.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Hand-drawn map.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see it.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		This entire map is drawn based on actual GPR, seismic, acumeter, and other instrumentation detections of caverns in the Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who drew the map?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Wayne and Discovery Resources.
		And they did it inch by inch, foot by foot, very, very carefully.
		Now, if you notice down in the lower left-hand of that map, there's a little one type of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, number one.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		That's where the cave was blown up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's where it was blown up.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's where we were going to enter come two weeks ago.
		We would have had to travel up a curving, but rather direct 525 feet cavern.
		The backside, you notice it looks like an inverted V here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Okay, the backside of this cavern was where all the good stuff was.
		Now, let's follow the cavern up.
		You go up through the cavern 525 feet.
		That very top square in the top is the largest chamber in the entire cave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The 45 by 50.
		Yeah.
		Okay.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Inside that, it's the largest space, cavernous space.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, now how do you know this?
		You've never been up there.
		You haven't been able to get into the cave, so how do you know that even if you're not?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Detection equipment that have measured it most precisely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, what kind of detection equipment?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		In this particular case, an acueter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An acumeter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what is that?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		It measures electrical resistance, tells you where the cave walls are, how much the space is in between the cave walls.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		And so they're able to measure it most precisely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, using this map, you took your meter and you looked for this particular space and found it?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		No.
		We used the meter to tell us where the space was.
		We used our equipment to draw this map for us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		This map was never...
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		This is a map that the equipment drew for us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, how do you know that these spaces, the one we're talking about now, the largest of them we'll talk about for a second, is not a natural occurrence?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, how do you know that or is it a natural occurrence?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		If you go two photos down from the one with the map on it, it gives you kind of an indication of how seismic equipment works.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		You notice that there are four little indentations with little yellow circles on them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		If you go back up to the map, you can find those same four spaces there just rounding the corner, coming back down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see them, yes.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		And they're all yellow.
		And the reason why they are yellow is for a very important reason.
		Because inside those spaces, we have detected hits for gold.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, that's interesting.
		I, for example, own a metal detector, and I still have not figured out how it works, Glenn.
		But this metal detector, and I've proven it to myself, can detect gold, silver.
		It'll tell you in its digital readout if it's a ring and what kind of precious metal it is and how far down in the earth it is.
		And I don't have the slightest clue how this metal detector, a very modern one, delineates between precious metals.
		As a matter of fact, it will even tell you if it's junk metal.
		And how do these things delineate between precious metals and junk?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you, the piece of metal detection equipment we use, there's only four of them in the entire world.
		It's a very large and sophisticated piece of equipment that goes down very deep into the earth.
		And so you're asking me a piece of technology that I'm sorry, it's beyond my scope.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's beyond mine, too.
		I don't have a clue how it's done, but I have actually buried things myself just to test it.
		I buried a gold ring, and by God, it read a gold ring 12 or 13 inches below the earth.
		So it does work.
		It works.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me tell you also, Art, in each of these caverns, we're not talking about over 100 feet.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		We're talking about less than 100 feet below the surface.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there any way to determine, Glenn, whether they are unnaturally occurring spaces or whether they have been dug out?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Most of it's naturally occurring, and we're not going to presume anything to the contrary until we get inside the cave.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		I think it would be a preposterous claim, though I secretly in the back of my mind know that some of these caverns were, after the people had lived there for such a long time, certainly had to be dug out in some fashion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that people actually lived underground, or do you think that this was just where they stored their goodies?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		I think neither one.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		I think this was used as a, not as a storage site, but as both a ceremonial almost horizontal blue lines.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Okay, in there.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Let me tell you what we're seeing here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First of all, what kind of overhead scan it says?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		We're looking down at about a little bit more than a 45-degree angle into this cavern.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		And this cavern is a sonogram recording, or a GPR recording, in essence.
		And the problem with a GPR from time to time is that if you get a very solid surface, like if you were to look at a piece of glass or to look at a golden table or something, it is very reflective.
		And it will reflect differently than if you have a stone which is absorbent or semi-permeable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At the top of this picture, there's a thick white line.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		That's off the picture.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		But you notice two blue bulbs that are kind of like hanging from a ceiling there?
		Yes.
		I believe that those the originators who the rumors are that those are helmets in this cave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Helmets.
unidentified		Yeah.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		There's rumored to be a store of arms inside This cavern.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Arms.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		That means breastplates, swords, shields, helmets.
		And that there were a line of helmets hung on the walls inside this cave.
		We're believing that those two blue circles there hanging, looking like they're hanging from a ceiling, are probably helmets hanging on a wall.
		Now, the one that's really bizarre here is the little floating image in between the two helmets looks like a mummy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God, it does.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Because it is a mummy.
		And it's laying on a reflective surface which has reflected that image into the air.
		That little table thing that's underneath us?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it does look like a mummy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gosh.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		That is a mummy.
		We have a problem with this cave because when we go into this cave, if we find any mummies, we immediately must call the county coroner within a prescribed number of hours, and we're not talking about a day, okay?
		And you must bring the county coroner back, and he must determine that these people are not recently dead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would think if it's a mummy and it's been down there, well, of course, it could be as recent, I suppose, as even the 80s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have no way of knowing, really.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Well, for one thing, it's law.
		So it won't make any difference what my opinion will be.
		It'll only make a difference what his opinion is.
		If, in fact, it becomes an antiquity of sorts, then we can proceed.
		But one of the strange features about this cave opening is that we have to have a coroner on call so that we do not violate the law of the state of Illinois.
		Right.
		But in any case, if you look at this red photograph again, there are many reflective surfaces in here.
		One of the things that has been rumored inside this cave is obviously that there are burial chambers and that many of these people were buried not just on dirt floors, but either on precious metal or on either marble-like rock or something that reflects sonograms prolifically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much precious metal do you continue to detect?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		We're talking about we have we are presuming from our equipment that there are probably still 28 statues left in the cave.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		At least one of them is the solid stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Solid gold.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Pure stuff.
		The gold stuff.
		And each of the other ones are adorned with at least ornaments or layers of some sort.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just curious about normal human greed, if people were down here before those who blew up the entrance, why would they not have removed the solid stuff, all of the solid stuff?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		You cannot lift 2,000 pounds of statue off the ground.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Excuse me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're telling me did you say 2,000 pounds?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		What would a 5.5 foot statue weigh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Solid gold?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		It's heavier than me, and that's pretty tough to imagine.
unidentified		Between me and you, you're the lighter version, Mark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a lot of gold.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think that, I mean, as you look at what they did, they took out what they could, figured they had enough, didn't want to let anybody else in, so blew the cave.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I feel like they had a time pressure.
		They knew that people were getting wind of what was going on.
		They saw the money trails.
		They saw the affluence.
		I'm assuming that the people who were involved in this were afraid of being caught on someone's property and having their bank accounts closed down.
		They probably did a superficial job of looting.
		And when things got hot, and I could tell you this, I will tell you someday that story, but at this moment, let's let that go.
		The situation got very intense, very hot for the perpetrators.
		And they blew the cave to cover their tracks and to preserve the revenue that they had in their pockets.
		We're presuming that it ranged around $12 million.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
		Hold on.
		We'll get right back to you, Glenn.
		Glenn Kimball is my guest.
		I'm Art Bell.
		I'm going to tell you, you might want to take a look.
		Go to my website in case you're wondering, how do I get there?
		How do I see photographs?
		Everybody always asks.
		Go to my website, artbell.com.
		All right.
		And go to program.
		Second item down, tonight's guest info.
		You'll see the name Glenn Kimball.
		And you'll see a link that says photos of artifacts and analysis.
		You'll also see a website for ancientamerican.com.
		But click on the first link and then sort of proceed down, take a look at the first photos, go to the second page, second photo down, and you'll see overhead scan.
		And I'll be damned if it does not look like a mummy.
		It looks like a mummy suspended for all intents and purposes in air, the way we're looking at it here.
		really does look like a mummy.
		Once again, Glenn Kimball.
		Glenn, when are you gonna get into...
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Well, most certainly, Art.
		This is a professional organization.
		We have a full-fledged professional licensed archaeologist for the state of Illinois.
		He does not live there.
		He lives in Wisconsin.
		We have a full-fledged team, experienced team of manuscript experts, which we want to talk about what they're going to find in the cave.
		We have a full-fledged team of equipment specialists.
		That's Discovery Resources.
		Those are the boys with the big toys.
		Wayne May's coordinating the event.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where is all the money for this coming from?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Basically, we're doing it mostly out of our pocket.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Out of pocket.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		We're not going to make money off the artifacts art, so everyone's just going to have to forget that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, what is your personal motivation?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		My personal motivation is we're going to do some media.
		We're going to do my TV show.
		We're going to do some film work.
		The gold is in the film in this particular case.
		And also, there's one big cash, Cal, is that we're going to tour with an exposition with these artifacts as well once we've opened the cave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, once you get the cave open, if you find everything you think is there, the artifacts, all of it, even the gold, can you legally remove it?
		And to whom does it belong?
		I mean, how does that work?
		The legal aspect of it.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Obviously, whatever ownership might be there would belong to the landowners and whatever the laws of the land state.
		The law of the land state has an interesting blurb of formula, and I'm not going to try and preset that into the minds of the state of Illinois or the federal government by stating what I think on the air tonight.
		But it's a shared process between the landowner and the powers that be in this country, and it's a very fair arrangement.
		I'm not going to dispute that in any way.
		It's done for the protection of artifacts.
		What normally happens in the past with people who have gone in to discover places like this, no one's obviously discovered a place like this, but something new would be that they would go in with the intention of looting it, and they would not bring responsible parties to the scene.
		And therefore, the federal government kicks them off.
		I mean, that's just what happens.
		We're in hopes that by demonstrating a responsible posture, by not presuming to enrich ourselves by the artifacts themselves, by bringing proper media, proper archaeological teams, proper ancient text teams together, et cetera, et cetera, we brought the best in the country to the site.
		Who are they going to replace the best with?
		That's our thought.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		There will be some who will say, look, these must, if they are really there, represent Native American artifacts and you are desecrating a site.
		How do you respond to that?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		I don't see the Native American influence in this particular cave.
		However, there probably is a strong one.
		And I'm not going to dispute that.
		I'll allow whatever laws in the land pervade.
		We're not fighting anybody.
		We're not fighting the tribal traditions in the area.
		We're not out to conflict with anybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It does not look like it's Native American, but I'm sure that claim would be made, obviously.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		And we anticipate that, and we're certainly going to be willing to entertain a rational discussion on the issue.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		You know, if everyone draws swords at this moment in history, we won't know anything about this for 25 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's try this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With regard to the texts that might be found there, were there any texts removed that you're aware of from the original looting?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, huh?
		So they weren't interested in that.
		They were interested in the other stuff.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of texts would you expect to find?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Well, Art, the story of the cave, we've never really gotten into it, you and I, but presuming that there are three different cultures represented here, one being a Palestinian or Hebrew culture, one being Egyptian and one being in the northern coast of Africa.
		Egypt is Africa, but we're talking about to the Western African.
		We're talking about a group of people that very likely left around the time of the first century at the dispute, probably during the time of the Jewish wars, which would have these people would have been refugees from that system.
		They would have been wealthy people who could have hired Mauritanian sailors Who had sailed here on merchant vessels and merchant voyages before, knew where they were going, sailed up the Mississippi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But this will just, it will upset all of our history.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, to some extent, oh, you're absolutely right, Art.
		And I hope I'm there for the touche.
		You know, I need a good touche on this.
		We will demonstrate that there were more than, this is not the only time that these people use these trade routes.
		And Christopher Columbus sailed from Portugal, basically used the currents in the ocean.
		One might have thought that he would have landed somewhere in Nova Scotia or near Boston or something.
		Obviously, the currents in the ocean took him to the Caribbean, which is exactly where the Moore sailors landed.
		They sailed up the backside of Florida.
		They found that the Mississippi had a higher water content at that moment in history some 2,000 years ago.
		And they were able to sail and navigate up the stream up to where the Ohio and the Mississippi meet in southern Illinois.
		So it was navigable.
		And by the way, by that time, there had already been merchant traffic from the north, from farther north in Wisconsin and Michigan and in northern Illinois down through the Ohio Mississippi, basically, and they had traffic from west to east.
		So these Maury sailors brought these people here, and it wasn't their first time here, and excuse me, you know, it's too bad if there were more than one voyage here.
		But this particular site appears to have been used over a long period of time because the images that we have seen in the artifacts span about 400 or 500 years.
		So they're centered.
		I mean, 400 or 500 years sounds like a long time, but that's really kind of centered.
		It's not like a completely random selection here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, then what kind of writings would you expect to find?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or do you imagine?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		people would not have come here in crisis without bringing with them their traditions.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		They would have brought people We noticed, for example, from one of the major finds that we have, the very first picture on the second page.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me take a look.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very first picture, yes.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		He's holding a staff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		And you notice the writing that's very prominent down the left side.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		Do you know what that is?
		Because I know.
		What is it?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		It's a form of pidgin Hebrew.
		It is not exactly Hebrew because some of the symbols are transposed and a little bit cockeyed.
		And if you ask Jim Long, who's Mendel Jones sidekick, he has a term for it, but I'm not quite sure that's accurate at this moment.
		I call it pidgin Hebrew because it appears to me that it was originally Hebrew that has evolved over 100 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do we know what that means, what it says?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Melchizedek.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		You know who Melchizedek was?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Melchizedek was the king of Salem or the king of Bethlehem to whom Abraham paid tithing.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Scary, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what it's going to do is this piece that we're looking at with the man holding the staff, where did this come from?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		That came, I know exactly where that came from because I took this picture.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's hear it.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		This came from a collection in southern Illinois.
		A very gracious gentleman allowed us.
		He spread out his whole collection, which was formidable, very varied.
		It looked like there weren't two pieces that were similar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And again, this man represented to you that this was given or sold to him by people who claimed it came from the cave in Illinois.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Has this gentleman allowed others to see it, archaeologists, people who would...
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		He's a gracious gentleman.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		He'll let you see it if you come with me.
unidentified		Really?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		In fact, I think he's shown it to way too many people.
		I hope he keeps his garage closed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what do they say?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, what do the experts say about this, for goodness sakes?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		There are underground traders in Illinois and in Indiana and Tennessee and Kentucky that trade in artifacts and have often traded in Egyptian artifacts, Hebrew artifacts, and Native American Indian artifacts who make a living on this full-time.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		I met some of them when I was there two weeks ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, this is absolutely not Native American.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's no way.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		No, this is not Native American at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It looks somewhat Egyptian or Greek to me.
		I'm not sure.
		That's the closest I could come, but I'm not even sure about that.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		It's Egyptian.
		Melchizedek was the king of Salem, who was an Egyptian king.
		He worked under the auspices of the Pharaoh of Egypt in that era.
unidentified		But this is completely impossible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's absolutely impossible.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Perhaps.
		Perhaps.
		I'm so flabbergasted.
		I don't know how to retort to that, Art.
		You wait until.
		I'm going to really blow your wiggie in a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Is this an older gentleman?
		He received this when, in the 80s?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Yes, he did.
		It was his mother's collection.
		And he's a very fine, polite, kind, generous, conversant, intelligent man.
		Not a bad guy.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When do you plan?
		What are you going to do?
		Are you going to go down there with dynamite and blow this thing open?
		Are you going to go down there with big, heavy machinery?
		You're going to start digging by hand?
		How are you going to try and get into this cave?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		We're going to put on kid gloves to do this right.
		We're going to drill a hole to make sure that we have access to the appropriate corridor, take a lipstick camera picture of the interior to make sure that we've got it centered properly, and we're going to carefully dig a...
		Now, if you go back up to the map, let me show you what I'm talking about here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The map.
		Let's see.
		Where was the map?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		It's just below the sky.
		Now, you saw where the door was on the left, and you go up that long stretch until the V inverts again.
		We have the top gold piece there.
		We come down.
		There are four caverns filled with golden things there.
		We keep coming down to where there's a dark area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I see.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Where there's an arrow.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		You see the arrow pointing left?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do, yes.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		It's almost to the very end.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see it.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		That is the entry point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the entry point.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Where we're going to enter it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you believe the original entry point was by the number one?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, you've gone almost the entire length of this thing, short of a little bit, and that's where you're going to enter.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		We're trying to find a place that's reasonably shallow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, how far below, that's what I was going to ask, how far below ground is that opening?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		35 feet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, you're going to do this much the way they explore in Egypt.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		Very carefully, Ark.
		Very, very carefully.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about the water table in the area?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Now, that does alter because these are limestone rocks here, and if you know anything about underground water, it does go up and it does go down.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		But in this particular region, it's 250 feet down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're probably safe.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		We are definitely safe because we've drilled a hole into the cavern already, and there is no water.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Now, can I show you where we've drilled?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Somebody told me that you drilled and dropped a camera.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that true?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		No.
		We have drilled and we've opened up the cave.
		We have seven pictures of the interior of the cave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you do?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		But they are from the original looters of the cave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have those photographs up?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		I do not have them on your site.
		Sorry.
		They must be licensed appropriately, and Keith Rowland is Johnny on the spot.
		He knows what he's doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does Keith have them?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		I don't think we even sent them to him, but I'd be delighted to send them to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you please?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		For sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		But I need to show you something, though.
		Go to the very end of the V. We started at the left side.
		Go to the very right side.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		And you see a little circle with an X?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		A circle with an X. You've got to go all the way to the very bottom of the right side of the V. Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It would appear to me to be the end.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it would appear to be the end.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		We drilled a hole there into the cave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You did?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How far down?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you drill sideways or?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Straight down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Straight down.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		The hole's still there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How far?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		It was about 60 feet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		60 feet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you hit what?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Cavern.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Limestone cavern.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would that be what I assume that you went for the shallowest location?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To drill into?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		No, we didn't have the acumeter at that time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		We just wanted to be sure that we weren't out of our freaking minds, and we wanted to drill a hole in the cave, so we carefully drilled a three-inch hole into the cave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what were you able to determine from having drilled that hole?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		First of all, that there were caverns down there that were dry and not running with water.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		And that they were of sufficient size for people to have navigated, which was absolutely true.
		And that at that point there was a small little space in there which we detected with our metal detectors.
		We wanted to kind of gauge our equipment, which we did do, and it was accurate.
		So in essence, we tried to figure one end to the other.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you wanted to verify what you had mapped, and the only way to do that was to pick a location.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		And the ending point is the logical location, because then on the surface you can see the extremes of the cave from the surface.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Because when you're down underneath the ground, you can't tell anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're going to have to dig vertically down 60 feet, is that correct?
unidentified		No, 30 to 35 feet where the arrow is.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Because it's shallower where the arrow is than it was where the X is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And once you're in there, you're in the whole thing, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because presumably you can navigate along the entire route.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		If you look where that arrow is, you notice that there's a wide black mark rather than a thin black mark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		That means that the passageway is wider there.
		That's part of the reason why we were interested in that site, because...
		We're talking probably 10, 12 feet wide.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pretty wide.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		So that we won't, you know, when you're going through with a piece of heavy equipment, you're concerned about collapsing a cavern and not noticing that you're actually in the cavern.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		So you want to pick a wide spot to where you can be careful and access it with the greatest caution that you possibly can and never miss it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your equipment tells you that there's not a collapse that would prevent you from navigating through this whole thing anywhere?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Well, there is collapses.
		If you go back up the V and you see where the four, you go to the very point of the V and you come back on the backside, you see the four yellow boxes.
		Yes.
		To the right is a matrix where it's largely collapsed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see what you're talking about.
		All right, hold on.
		So in other words, even once inside, you're not going to be able to navigate the whole thing, but obviously you've got a clear shot it would appear up to where the goodies would be.
		Really interesting to think about.
		And maybe you'd want to think about it a little bit.
		I have.
		Now, on the one hand, let us put ourselves in the position of people who originally found this stuff in these caves.
		What would you do if you explored a cave and you found untold riches in gold and artifacts?
		And you've got on one hand, over here on the right hand, you've got millions of dollars in solid gold and artifacts.
		Over here on the other hand, you've got an opportunity to help mankind to turn all of this over to archaeologists and the man who owns the property and the state of Illinois and the federal government and whoever else would put their hands into it, probably keeping your hands out of it.
		So let's see.
		Archaeologists and the right thing to do over here in the left hand.
		Millions and millions of dollars in gold in the right hand.
		Archaeologists, history, gold.
		Gold, archaeologists.
		What would you do?
		Well, you might carry out the really expensive stuff and blow the hell out of the cave entrance.
		That's what you might do.
		So I guess I understand their motivation, and I'm not sure.
		I guess we could call them looters, but, you know, one man's looter is another man's treasure hunter.
		So, a question for you, Glenn.
		Without naming them, because I don't want you to, do you know or think you know the identity of the, in quotes, looters?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		I know exactly who they are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you do?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		We have photos of them.
		They have taken photos of themselves inside the cave.
		Oh, really?
		They've left bank records.
		They've left records with major companies like De Beers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Diamond Company, De Beers?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		As a matter of fact, one of the treasures taken originally from the cave was sold to De Beers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, oh, it was, huh?
		Well, all right.
		So you heard me, in the one hand, you've got all the gold and the riches, and the rest of your life taken care of.
		In the other hand, you've got the archaeologists, the people from the state, the people from the federal government, probably the UN, God knows, everybody.
		And your chance of walking away with the riches or any substantial portion thereof, pretty slim by the time everybody else got into the act.
		So that's kind of what I was thinking.
		I mean, what would the average person do?
		They might collect it up, take off, get their money, and blow the hell out of the cave.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Well, these guys are off scot-free until we open the cave.
		And they would get off anyway until we opened the cave.
		No one can prove they did anything until evidence is found where they took it from.
		I mean, it's like any good police investigation.
		You've got to find the body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then that would mean they committed a crime.
		Yeah.
		What specific crime?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Well, you cannot go to Yellowstone National Park and steal old Faiffal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Because if you have it in your front yard and it's missing in Yellowstone, someone's going to arrest you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that's a national park with more protections.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you go to a farmer's field and you steal all the wheat off his field and you find out where he and he finds out where you put that in a grain silo and you had no grain before and no farm before, then you're probably not going to be innocent.
		But, you know, that's, we're talking about, I'd like to presume innocence until proven guilty.
		I'm going to let, and by the way, the agencies and the government are initially aware of what's going on.
		There have been contacts, and there will be the appropriate measures taken.
		And let's just leave it there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, even you have motive.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I have a strong motive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You expect to make money from the filming of all of this, right?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Should I lie to you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You certainly shouldn't.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		I'm telling you that there's gold in them there, film.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		And by the way, that is going to be licensed with Wayne May and the property owner, and their contracts involved.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are these contracts in the works or actually signed?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Done deal?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Done deals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When do you expect to drill?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Without giving a date, we're not talking months.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		We're talking weeks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Weeks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the weather is going to get a little rough there.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		It's already rough.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		But in this particular area, there is not traditionally a snowfall.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I suppose once you're so far down into the ground anyway, weather is no longer a factor.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just for the crew above ground, it's going to be rough.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		You know, we want to shock your audience, though.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		We want to stand your hair on the back of your head tonight, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, go.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Because there is a picture on the site I want to show you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fire away.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Go to the map picture.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		The picture just below the map picture is another one of these very fresh pictures.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again, program tonight's guest info, the name Glenn Kimball, Ben Belowett, photos of artifacts and analysis.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Just second page, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm almost there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'm there.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		And there's a yellow with a black streak photo.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		It's kind of yellowish with a big white center and the black streak.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see it, yes.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		If you'll notice and you'll look very closely, you will see the first evidence in history outside those who might have been in the cave of a statue with his arms outraised.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see it.
		I clearly see it.
		Oh, I see.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Are we seeing something thrilling or what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's get everybody there.
		It's the second page of pictures.
		One, two, three, fourth one down.
		What kind of image are we looking at?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		The equipment is GPR equipment.
		But the image, that big white space there, is a reflection off of a reflective surface.
		This image is holding up its arms.
		In my opinion, we're probably looking at a funeral beer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, this would appear, folks, to be a human of some sort standing with his arms outstretched.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		We're looking right on top of his head.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no question about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This was taken from above ground, right?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely, and it's fresh.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		We're talking two weeks old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Two weeks old.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Somebody left it there, and it's still there, Art.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		It's still there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, for it to reflect in the manner it is, it must be what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Metal?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		A reflective surface.
		It could have been glass.
		It could have been a form of quartz.
		It could be mercury.
		To be honest with you, I think it's probably a golden beer.
		There have been two independent reports of a statue with its arms outraised over a golden beer with a mummy sitting on the top of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, this is really something.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		This is scary.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		This is beautiful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And this is how far below ground?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Art, this is only 50 feet below the ground.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		50 feet.
		Yeah.
		And in order to give the relief that we see, you say that the large white area represents some sort of gigantic reflecting surface.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you give me an idea of scale?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, size?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		That statue is between 5.5 feet and 8 feet tall.
		And so that'll give you some sort of scale.
		I imagine his arms are outstretched probably three feet, maybe four feet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Three or four feet.
		Well, that gives us plenty of scale.
		Aye, aye, aye, aye, aye.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Is this absolutely...
		Interested is like the euphemism of the universe here.
		And by the way, everyone who has all of the professionals who have used the equipment have turned to me with this face.
		You should have been there, Art.
		It was a great face.
		They went and they said, well, now that's non-geologic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are they able to tell how much of a space is represented there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you've given us a scale, but I mean, how much of a real opening is there?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		We're not talking more than 12 or 14 feet here.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Once again, remember that fat area that we were talking about on the original map?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		That's where this is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's where this is.
		All right.
		You're going to drill...
		Are you going to first drill...
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		We're going to cut a cross-section so we come through the wall and not through the ceiling.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		But the last thing you want to do is land on one of these statues.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But what I mean is, is it going to be a big enough hole to actually go down into it originally, or are you going to just drill a pilot hole first with a camera?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Pilot hole on camera.
		That'll take us one day.
		The equipment that we have on site...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Less than a day.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		The equipment we have to dig the actual site is state-of-the-art and will only take us one day to punch the hole.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		That's why I'm saying if I call you on the phone, Art, and I say, Art, do you remember the story I told you?
unidentified		Would you like to take a ride?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'd like to take this ride.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		You may be interested.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've done a lot of crawling around.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		This won't be crawling.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		This will all be standing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I crawled in Egypt, believe me, I crawled.
unidentified		Oh, did you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, through some pretty dark areas, and this will be no different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This will be very much like it.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, this will not be a scary scary.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Well, it might be scary, but it won't be crawling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		New things are always a little scary, Glenn.
unidentified		Always.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is remarkable.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		And there's something else that's frightening here, Art.
		And I haven't told anybody this.
		Wayne told me this, and he showed me this, and it bought it.
		And I don't know what this is, and don't ask me, because I don't know.
		But if you go back up to this map situation, you know the four yellow boxes.
		Those are caverns.
		They are probably tomb rooms, much like you might have found at Ramesses' son's tombs, little rooms with bodies in them.
		You come down that corridor and you see a series of circles on the side.
		Those are five eight-foot Egyptian statues.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my goodness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All those circles side by side?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you see those circles that are vertical there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, sure.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		And I can only tell you what happened, and then you're going to have to make up your own mind.
		We're coming along the surface with essentially electromagnetic equipment.
		Right near that center of the corridor there, up just a little bit, between the eight-foot statues and the four golden rooms with the gold in them.
		We're coming along there with an electromagnetic reader, following the caverns just nicely, just as nice as punch, easy as pie.
		And all of a sudden, we look on the surface and something, we're looking at the surface of the ground now.
		The grass is like 11 inches high, but there's like a circle with nothing there.
		It's kind of barren, almost like a spaceship landed on this thing and burned it off, okay?
		And it's right in the path of our GPR equipment.
		We take the GPR equipment over it and the other equipment over it, and my gosh, art, if we go down two pictures below the map, we'll see those little indentations with the yellow circles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Instead of going down with the little indentations, it went straight to the top of the graph, squared off, and came back down on the other side of this round square.
		It matched out for a period of about 14 feet.
		Almost like you were standing over a nuclear weapon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course, you really cannot be sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have no idea.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		I have no idea what that is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you could be sitting on a discovery that is even bigger than the one we've been talking about.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's just no way to know until you get down there.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And I don't know what to tell you, except the people who went in there and came out obviously got in and got out, and so it didn't kill them, you know.
		I mean, there were a couple of people who died of heart attacks between, but over 20 years people die, you know.
		But there is something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There was nothing down there that specifically immediately killed them.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		No, of course not.
		But there is something.
		I don't know.
		It just blows my mind because it's atypical of this equipment and no one's ever seen this anomaly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Glenn, is it your impression that those who removed allegedly what you believe they removed got through the entire complex?
		Or do you think that you may have mapped areas that they never got to?
		That's possible, isn't it?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		I believe that they did not get to the whole thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have any way of guessing how much they got to and what they might not have gotten to?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		To be honest with you, Art, it would be just a guess if I told you.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		They tell us that they got through a third of it, but how do you trust what they have to say?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many people do you think were involved in this original exploration?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		One person plus a family member and then two business partners.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So four people?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Only two of which actually entered the cave itself.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		The other two were merely business partners and were not allowed inside.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the number of people who were aware of what happened then and who were part of it would be few indeed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So calling for someone to come forward would be useless, eh?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		And not necessarily because they left widows.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		And the widows have handed us 3,000 pictures and told us the stories.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		And the dispute over the money is still in position.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		And they have disclosed things that we will not talk about on this program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would any of these widows, do you think, at some point be available to speak on the air?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		I don't think it'll be in their best financial interest to speak to anybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Financial interest?
unidentified		Yes.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		There were benefits from the looting of the cave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you think then there would be legal claims against them?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		That would make sense.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Would you ask Charles Manson to come on and talk to you about what he did?
		These ladies are certainly not that.
		These ladies are innocent and nice people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, poor analogy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't think it's the same thing at all.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		It's not.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		It's a poor analogy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Their husbands discovered treasure.
		You know, I'm not as quick to dub them looters.
		I think that the average person might well be inclined to do exactly what they did.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		It is possible.
		I've had written correspondence over the email for some time with the perpetrator himself, and my last correspondence with him was I sent to him a letter saying, you know, you could have been a hero.
		And he wrote back, there are too many of those fellows in the world.
		And that's a quote.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's too many heroes.
unidentified		All right, hold on.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right, back once again to Glenn Kimball.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And while we have the opportunity, Glenn, if there's anything you would like to promote, if you've got a current book out there or anything else you want to talk about.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a large amount of information and images on the Ancient American Magazine site, which is posted on our Bell site.
		There are past issues.
		There are lots of photographs.
		There's lots of interesting articles written by many different people on this particular subject, which will help people understand.
		You really need to go to that site if you want more information in terms of that.
		And by the way, there is a toll-free number that you can reach them.
		It's 877-494-0044.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, and who are we reaching?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		That's Wayne May directly at the office of the Ancient American.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, 877.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Mr. Famous himself, he's there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		877-494-0044.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is he willing to talk on the air?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		He most certainly would love to talk to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He would, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's take a few phone calls.
		I've hogged you a lot here.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Glenn Kimball.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, I'm Dustin from Clinton.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Dustin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Clinton.
unidentified		Utah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Utah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Yeah, I was just, well, you know, none of this is really new to me because, well, I'm LDS and about 170 years ago, Joseph Smith found something similar to what he was doing.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Can I pass on this particular one?
		I appreciate where you're coming from, sir, but one thing I really do not want to do is mix this particular subject.
		I believe that you need to believe and do these things, and there are some parallels and things that are in your mind.
unidentified		Well, I'm a bias to this.
		I don't go to church.
		I'm not active.
		I appreciate saying that.
		It's pretty cool that he has found these things.
		Other people in the past have found certain similar things, and it just shows that with the whole quickening thing and all that, that's what it is.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		One thing I don't want to do is we mix too many spoons in the bowl, and we're going to change the flavor here.
		And one of the things that we don't want to do is to orient this towards a religious discussion or towards some sort of pointing fingers or even extolling virtues.
		Let's keep it to the cave discovery.
		And pardon me, Art, if I say that.
		It's just for my...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, is there a religious aspect to this?
		And if there is, what isn't?
		I mean, what may be found that could either verify or perhaps put into question what we believe?
		Art.
		I have no problem going there.
		I'm just asking the question.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Well, there is one major thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		And once again, ready to get your hair stand on end.
		We believe that we're going to find that this five and a half foot statue is in fact a statue of Jesus with rubies in his wrists and these in his ankles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Placed there when?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Placed there with?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, when?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		When?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		First century A.D., right after the crucifixion of Christ.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if it's not Jesus, if it's some other idol, are you going to blow it up?
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		I mean, blow it up with, what, black powder?
unidentified		No.
unidentified		I don't like it.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to blow it up in terms of publicity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like the Taliban.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no, no.
		Oh, come on, man.
		Blow it up in terms of publicity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, okay, okay, okay.
		Wildcard, you're on here with Glenn Kimball.
		Hello.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		He's going to get me hugged.
unidentified		I'm so glad it's gotten through.
dr glenn kimball ▲ ● ▼		I've been listening for quite a while.

▲