Art Bell

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Nov. 12, 2001 - Art Bell

03:58:15

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Eugene Mallove - Infinite Energy Magazine

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14:30

eugene mallove

01:43:12

george noory

56:25

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unidentified		This is Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie on Premier Radio Networks to talk with George from west of the Rockies, style 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach George at area code 541-665-0520.
		And the wildcard line is open at area code 541-665-0521.
		International callers may access Coast to Coast AM at 1-800-893-0903.
		That's 1-800-893-0903.
		This is the Premier Radio Networks.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Well, good morning, good evening, wherever you may be across the nation, across the world.
		I'm George Norrie, and if I'm here, well, that means Art Bell is not.
		I will be with you through Wednesday.
		Art is still nursing that very, very sore back, and it's quite an ordeal.
		And, you know, maybe it'll be worthwhile this week to do one of those positive mind experiments.
		Maybe that'll help out.
		So our best to Art Bell, and I'll be sitting in until they tell me not to.
		Now, I hope everyone who has served or is serving in the United States military had an enjoyable veterans weekend and day.
		And we here at Coast to Coast all salute all of you.
		Well, this morning, I woke up to a frantic call from a friend of mine who said, George, you're not going to believe this.
		Another plane crash.
		Now, you know what it's like when you first get woken up by a phone, you feel kind of groggy, you're not sure, you don't have your bearings.
		I do remember saying, oh no, here we go again.
		But I don't think that's the case this time.
		I think this was truly an accident, and we'll talk more about that in our open lines segment of the program.
		Lots to talk about tonight.
		This hour, we will have open lines for you.
		Next hour, a discussion about a situation that occurred in 1989.
		It was a major announcement regarding almost unlimited free energy.
		But something happened.
		It went away.
		And we're going to find out why.
		And by the way, if you need any information about guests, Art Bell's email, if you want to email me, just go to Art Bell's website at www.artbell.com.
		It's simple as that.
		And just ahead, breaking stories of the day, your phone call, so don't touch that dial.
		I'm George Norrie, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		KCMO.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, this is Art Bell, and I've got some great news, so please listen very carefully.
		The Wall Street Journal has just reported, and I'm quoting, if history is any indicator, gold is set to rally in a big way, end quote.
		Now, that's because in the last three decades, investors have seen a direct correlation between interest rate cuts and rising gold prices with increases ranging anywhere from 30 to over 400 percent.
		Now, Greenspan has cut the interest rate seven times, and many of today's leading brokerage houses, including Merrill Lynch, Solomon, and Goldman Sachs, are buying gold themselves.
		In fact, this year, while the average stock fund is down 14%, gold, on the other hand, is already up over 7%.
		That's why I need you to call Lear Financial right now and request their gold profit guide and their new audio seminar demonstrating how interest rate cuts are setting the stage for the next gold rally.
		This material is a $29 value, but mention my name, Art Bell.
unidentified		Guess what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They send it to you free of charge.
		Simply call 888-474-4259.
		Folks, I personally benefited and I don't want you to miss out.
		So call now, 888-474-4259.
		That's 888-474-4259.
		Get a pen and paper ready.
		I'm going to tell you where to get some storable foods.
		We are at war.
		Several people are dead.
		The count keeps going up from those infected with anthrax.
		What would you do if suddenly there was another biological terrorist attack that prevented you from leaving your home for 30, 60, even 90 days?
		Do you have enough supplies?
unidentified		Food?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Water?
		I'm extremely comfortable with the storable food shipment I received from Ready Reserve.
		I didn't have the time to become an expert in storing food, so I trusted Ready Reserve's nearly 30 years experience in helping families like mine, and you should too.
		What do you need to store food in your home, you might ask?
		Because you need to be able to feed your family no matter what disaster strikes and to be protected when something happens to the food supply in this country.
		Did you know the typical grocery store in this country is completely restocked every 72 hours?
		You've heard me say it before, and I'll say it again.
		You need to have a reserve of high-quality storable food in your home.
		Call Ready Reserve right now at 1-800-968-1344.
		That's 800-968-1344 or visit them at ReadyReserveFoods.com.
unidentified		KCMO.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		And welcome back to Coast to Coast AM.
		I'm George Norrie, sitting in for Art Bell.
		We're going to talk about some of the stories of the day.
		Then we'll go to your phone calls this hour.
		Well, recovery efforts are continuing right now in the night in Queens, New York, where that American Airlines jetliner crashed with 260 people on board.
		The plane, as you probably know by now, was en route to the Dominican Republic when it broke apart minutes after takeoff.
		It crashed into the Rockaway Beach area, engulfing 12 to 14 homes in flames.
		At least six people reported missing on the ground.
		American Airlines Flight 587, which is a European-made Airbus A300, which I want you to know has had a very Good safety track record.
		It left Kennedy Airport 74 minutes late because of security checks put in place after the tragic World Trade Center attack.
		Now, authorities have found both of the plane's black boxes: the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice.
		I talked to a training expert who used to train for TWA, which is now part of the major airlines of American, and he tells me that by finding the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder, that they will be able to pinpoint, hopefully, very soon, what the probable cause of this tragedy was.
		Witnesses reported hearing an explosion and seeing an engine, a large chunk of a wing and other debris falling off the plane as it came down.
		This expert that I talked to today, because I asked him, I says, isn't it unusual that the fin of the plane would be some 10 blocks, it was in the water.
		They found the fin in the water.
		And the plane, of course, crashed into the homes.
		And I said, isn't that unusual that it would be 10 blocks away?
		Why shouldn't it be with the crash site?
		And he said, no, it's not.
		It probably incurred some heavy stress.
		So we'll just keep monitoring that situation.
		And again, this was a foreign-made plane, which had really a very good track record.
		But I looked at some statistics of major plane crashes in the last 20 years.
		And this is what I find to be unusual.
		Major plane crashes in the last 20 years.
		Of the major plane crashes, most of them have occurred outside of the United States in other countries.
		But we've had five of them.
		And I'm not including the tragic 9-11 disaster.
		Prior to that, and including this one today, we've had five major crashes in the last 20 years in the United States.
		What I find to be so ironic, four of them originated from JFK Airport.
		Four out of five major crashes in this country in the last 20 years all came out of JFK.
		Nothing from O'Hare, nothing from LAX in Los Angeles.
		Four out of five at JFK.
		And the one fifth one, the major crash that occurred in this country, that was the one that occurred down there in Miami.
		If you remember that, it was a Miami to Atlanta ValueJet flight crash that crashed into the Florida Everglades.
		110 people tragically killed in that situation.
		That was in 1996, May 11th.
		May 11th, 1996.
		So I just, I found that statistic to be very ironic, that four of the five major crashes would occur right out of JFK.
		A little bit on the war front, Taliban military forces, Taliban military forces, have deserted the Afghan capital of Kabul after a series of stunning military victories by opposition forces over the past four days.
		Now sporadic small arms fire could be heard from the hills overlooking the city, but the streets were empty of the Taliban soldiers who had been there hours earlier.
		All Taliban military compounds were abandoned.
		Now maybe, just maybe, we can find out where Osama bin Laden is.
		You know, they had a foreign reporter interviewed him, and this reporter was blindfolded and taken five hours.
		Now, this is not what we call United States highway hours, okay?
		He's not going 60 miles an hour.
		So let's figure they're doing maybe 15 miles an hour, okay, plodding along.
		He says it took him five hours from the spot he was picked up to where he got to where Osama bin Laden was in a dusty hut.
		So maybe if they were traveling 15 miles an hour, 75 miles out, just draw a circle right around there, maybe we could find a pretty good idea where Osama bin Laden could be.
		It's very possible.
		Very possible.
		One of the stories that I found very interesting occurring in Masr al-Sharif, which was the first city that the Northern Alliance toppled, men there lined up at their barber shops to have their Taliban-mandated beards shaved off.
		They wanted them off quickly.
		And if we don't want anybody to think we look like Taliban, get them off.
		And women discarded the all-encompassing veils and music banned by the Taliban could be heard coming from shops.
		Now, how about that?
		The anthrax scare on Capitol Hill continues over the weekend with the discovery of only trace amounts of that deadly bacteria in the offices of 10 senators in the Hart Senate building.
		It's the same building where anthrax contaminated letter was opened on October 15th.
		On the space front, an American astronaut, Russian cosmonaut, were outside the International Space Station.
		They were hooking up cables, testing a crane.
		Maybe they were listening to coast to coast.
		I don't know, but it's the first spacewalk for the station commander Frank Culberson and almost certainly his last.
		His four-month mission is nearing an end up there, and they say if he ever returns to space, it will be in his old shuttle piloting job.
		Also on the space front, a robotic mission to Pluto received a boost from Congress.
	It's unusual because Congress normally takes money away.
	Well, in this particular case, Congress is supporting something that NASA and the Bush administration really don't have a lot of support for.
	But in essence, it's to create a probe that will go out into the far regions where Pluto is and do a little exploratory mission there.
	And they say they've got To get there, they've got to launch it soon because if they miss the window out there by Pluto, there will be too much frozen atmosphere and it won't thaw out again for two centuries.
	That's a long time.
	And in Morristown, Tennessee, very unusual story.
	Police in Tennessee say an apparent prank gone wrong has cost a man his life.
	Police say that a Morristown man found spray-painted orange from his head to his knees, died from inhaling paint fumes.
	And now they are ruling his death a homicide.
	Well, those are some of the stories of the day.
	I'm George Norrie, and you're listening to Coast to Coast.
	Let's now go to the open line phone calls if we can.
	We'll pick it up by going to First Time Caller on the Road in Arkansas.
	Amy, you're on Coast to Coast.
	Hello, Amy.
	Amy?
	Now, we're on a little delay, so Amy, you've got to be with us here.
unidentified		Okay.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		There you are, and speak up real loudly.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Turn down your radio and jump on the phone.
unidentified		Okay.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		Hello?
		Yeah, go for it.
		Okay.
		I had a question about those shadow people.
		Now, I'm a new listener, so I'm, you know, I'm new to this.
		You had a conversation with a man here not too long ago, and he was saying that there is also people, there's a guy, I guess they're guys in like a black coat and a black hat.
		But who did that?
		You know what I'm talking about?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Well, Art Bell's the one who did the interview with the shadow people, but what we are talking about is if you look out of the corner of your eye every once in a while, you'll get a glimpse of what you think is somebody, a person.
		And when you turn real quickly, they're there, and then you turn away, they're gone very fast.
		And they call them the shadow people.
		I don't know.
		Amy, maybe they live in another dimension.
		Who knows?
		But it's a fascinating theory.
		I'll tell you that.
		Let's go to some other colors.
		Let's go.
		West of the Rockies, Charles, where are you on coast to coast?
unidentified		Rose, I've invented a free energy machine.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		You have?
unidentified		Yes.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Well, tell me a little bit about that, because next hour we are talking about free energy, and I want to see if yours is very similar to what we're going to be talking about next hour.
unidentified		Okay, it involves billions of diodes fabricated to face the same direction, and they rectify in the upper microwave region, so it turns heat into electricity.
		It absorbs heat like a refrigerator, it makes electricity.
		And you can absorb heat from anything, even the background heat of the planet, so you don't have to burn fuel to make the heat.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you've got this apparatus already done, finished, ready to go?
unidentified		I have a prototype, and it makes only enough to show on instruments, and I should make some more, and other scientists should replicate these results.
unidentified		That's the next stage.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		You're going to have to listen next hour because that's going to fascinate you when we talk about infinite energy.
		Let me ask you very quickly about this one.
		How long did it take you to develop?
unidentified		I thought about the idea in the high school years, 30 years ago.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Nobody's stolen your idea yet?
unidentified		No, I have an expired patent on it, too.
		It's just that everybody, well, nobody's helped me.
		It's a big yawn.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Have you tried to get grant money or anything like that?
unidentified		No, I guess I should.
unidentified		I'm working with somebody to help get a grant.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Well, Charles, why don't you mail me the plans?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I'll take them.
unidentified		Okay.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I'd like to see them.
		All right, thanks for the call.
		Let's go east of the Rockies, Golden Valley, Minnesota.
		Not too far from Eden Prairie, Chris, is it?
unidentified		No, not far at all.
unidentified		I actually teach music in Eden Prairie.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I spent a year there working at a TV station a long time ago.
unidentified		Excellent.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Gorgeous area, by the way.
unidentified		Yeah, it's really nice.
unidentified		It's coming up to the chilly season, but it's a nice place.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Nothing like those cold winters in Minneapolis.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		What's on your mind?
unidentified		Well, George, you know, I, like everybody else, you know, I've been probably considering the matters that are going on in the world.
unidentified		And, you know, I don't really have a lot of money to donate, but I'm an artist and a musician, and I was wondering if I could contribute a little bit in my own way by singing just a little bit of a song that I wrote about my cat to make everyone smile and maybe forget a little bit of their pain.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		How long does the song go, Christopher?
unidentified		Not long, maybe a minute or so.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		All right, go for it.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Let's hear about your song and the cat.
unidentified		Thanks, buddy.
		This is the first now.
		I see the kitty in the chair.
		I see the kitty over there.
		And I see the kitty is there.
		And I know the kitty is me.
		Tell me, kitty, what do you know?
		Tell me, kitty gold.
		I love you, though.
		Oh, the kitty is me.
		Oh, the kitty is me.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's Christopher's kitty song as we fade him out there.
		Excellent, Christopher.
		Nice job.
		Let's go back to some more callers.
		First time caller, Jackson, Mississippi.
		Ben, welcome to Coast to Coast.
unidentified		Hello, George.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I'm getting a little indoctrination tonight.
unidentified		Yeah.
		I've been listening to the show for several years.
		I have a request for all those people who see a lot of shadow people.
		I want you to see your eye doctor.
		I suffer from a c condition called diabetic retinopathy.
		And without you can you can look up the details on the internet or in your uh dictionary, dictionary.
		How about encyclopedia?
		Whatever.
		And I have a lot of little black floaters with blood on the back of my eyeball.
		And I see what might be shadow animals, shadow people, shadow birds, but I know they're not.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		A lot of people have floaters in their eyes too, believe it or not.
unidentified		Yeah, these are quite severe in some cases, moderately severe in mine.
		We're working on it.
		But everybody who sees lots of shadow people or lots of anything in their eyeball, please go see your eye doctor.
		It is correctable and it's not too expensive.
		All right.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Thanks for the call, Lee.
		Ben, that's Ben in Mississippi.
		Seattle, we'll go to Lee, west of the Rockies on coast to coast.
		Hello, Lee.
unidentified		Hello.
		Your topic that's coming up, I'm not real sure.
		I have an idea of what it's going to be on, but it's something that's always puzzled me.
		Especially in Seattle, we've had things like where we have to pay, you know, on our car deals, you know, to get the toxins out of the air.
		And there was a person that was going to stop that situation, and he had proved that it was now finished and it was being illegally collected and all this.
		Plus, there was also people in the past who had these things that would replace our fuel, you know, you remember?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure, absolutely.
unidentified		But these people disappear.
unidentified		What happened to them?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I saw a movie.
		Lee, I saw a movie when I was a kid, and I do not know the name of the movie.
		It was a black and white movie, but they said it was based on someone's life.
		He invented a pill that you could drop into water and turn it into fuel.
		And somebody said he disappeared, and nobody ever saw him again.
		So I don't know.
		I don't know.
		Let's go now east of the Rockies, Troy, New York.
		Don, welcome to Coast to Coast.
		Hi, Don.
unidentified		How you doing?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing well, thanks.
unidentified		Good.
unidentified		A little bit of news that I happened to hear with my ear to the ground today was that Fox News picked up a story out of down south in either Mississippi or somewhere that there was more sprayings of tugboats, and this story just never flew because of what happened.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Well, that occurred here in the St. Louis area, too.
unidentified		Yeah, okay.
		And that's a big story because what's that about?
		I mean, that's an odd thing.
		Now, there was another bit of news I heard with my ear to the ground today, listening to the radio and TVs.
		I don't know how many people saw it if they recorded it on their VCRs, but at the crash site, there was a fireman kneeling down or stooped down, looking into what appeared to be an engine in front of a gas station.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
unidentified		And on the initial showing, it was showed on CBS.
		It was a tape.
		You know, it has it up, the little logo up in the upper left-hand corner that it was from WABC's file footage or whatever.
		Okay.
		And it was showing a man walked up to the engine, reached into the engine, and pulled something out, put it in his coat, and walked away.
		And then when they showed the tape later, that part was edited out at the later evening news.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, thanks for your call.
		But let me tell you, investigators are all over the place.
		And they're going to get to the bottom of this.
		They're going to find out what happened, what brought this plane down.
		And every expert I talk to say this one was a very tragic accident.
		I'm George Norrie.
		More of your open line phone calls just ahead on Coast to Coast.
unidentified		Talk Radio 710 KCMO.
		There's nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do.
		I guess the rain down...
		If you're not listening, talk radio 710 KCMO.
		Inside the sand, the strength of the touch is something inside the touch.
		Inside of the touch, the sentence.
		The money files to be covered and then to burst up.
		Man, the sun again.
		Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing To lie in the meadow and hear the grass sing To have all these things in our memories For all of them use them to come To fall on fire Yeah
		Ride, ride like these stones Take this place, on this trip, just for me This is Coast to Coast AM with George Norton on Premier Radio Networks.
		We talk with George from west of the Rockies, style 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First time callers may reach George at area code 541-665-0520.
		And the wildcard line is open at area code 541-665-0521.
		Now, here's George Norrie.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Well, welcome back to the Coast to Coast AM.
		I'm George Norrie, sitting in for Art Bell.
		You know, as I was kind of peeking at the Art Bell website a couple days ago, I do that every day, as a matter of fact, I came across some of the books that Art has written, and you can order them right off his website.
		And I did.
		I have never had the book called The Art of Talk, and I ordered it.
		It showed up yesterday, and I was like a kid ripping the package open.
		It was almost like Christmas all Over again.
		And what's so incredible is just reading the story of him and knowing that I'm filling in doing his show.
		It was just, it was the most exciting thing that's ever happened to me.
		This hour, we're going to continue with open lines.
		And of course, next hour, not only are we going to talk about infinite free energy, we're going to find out where it went.
		But get ready to make your calls because we've still got some exciting open lines for you.
		I'm George Norrie, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		KCMO.
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george noory ▲ ● ▼		And welcome back to Coast to Coast AM.
		George Norrie sitting in for Art Bell, and we've got open lines for you this hour right here on Coast to Coast.
		And I like to take a lot of phone calls when I do open lines because, you know, you're making the call and that's what it's all about.
		So let's pick it up.
		Let's go on the road.
		Wild card caller, Mike.
		You are on Coast to Coast.
		Hello, Michael.
unidentified		Hey, George, how are you doing?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing fine.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in just outside of Court d'Alene, Idaho.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		That is a great state.
unidentified		It's beautiful.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Yep, it's God's country out there.
unidentified		It sure is.
unidentified		And winter is always great, too, because the gold streaks run through the mountains, and it's just absolutely beautiful if you enjoy that kind of scenery.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Got to make for some treacherous driving, though, in the winter, huh?
unidentified		Yeah, if you're going to have to drive a lot in long distances, yeah, it can be treacherous for sure.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		All right, what's on your mind?
unidentified		Well, anyway, I'd like to comment on the crash that happened today in New York.
		I read an article and then saw a show on Discovery a while back about EMI.
		Are you familiar with that?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I am not.
unidentified		This program was discussing EMI with electromagnetic interference, electric, something like that.
		Anyway, the point was that they were drawing the same conclusions about the majority of the major plane crashes happening from JFK.
		And one of the ones that they were discussing was American 800 a few years back.
		Anyway, this EMI is what the military uses in their communication systems with subs and other high-tech communication.
		Okay.
		And they were drawing a lot of really interesting conclusions times of transmissions compared to accidents, and it was very interesting.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		They think it might be interfering with some of these planes?
unidentified		Yes, they were drawing comparisons, how it interferes with the electronic components on the planes and starts fires and overheats wires and so on and so forth.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Have you heard Dr. Nick Begich on Art Show talking about HARP, which is that system they have up in Alaska?
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Now, I didn't hear that, but I am somewhat familiar with that, yes.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that similar to what you call EMI?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's what I thought.
unidentified		Yes.
		And if anybody out there can look up this show, it was about two to three weeks ago on Discovery.
		It is amazing the conclusions that are drawn by testing and by released transmission data from the military compared to the accidents that are happening out of JFK.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Well, like I tried to raise the question of the five major air crashes in 20 years in this whole world, four of them occurred out of JFK.
unidentified		And they were drawing the same conclusions.
unidentified		They were bringing up the same thing.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Something strange there.
unidentified		Interesting.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thanks for the call, Mike.
		Let's go to first-time caller, Glendale, California.
		Elizabeth, you're on coast to coast with George Nori, which is me.
		Hi, Elizabeth.
unidentified		Hi, how are you doing?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing okay, thanks.
unidentified		All right.
		I wanted to comment on the show last night, actually.
		Okay.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		And that was with Ian Punnett.
unidentified		Yeah.
		I wanted to comment on the fact that I don't really think that the Catholic Church is really going to give anything that's really true to life to of the Dead Sea Scrolls.
		And that someone had snuck into the Vatican, and he was really fluent in like 12 to 20 languages, and he transcribed the Dead Sea Scrolls.
		And if your listeners aren't aware of this scene, Gospel of Peace, and there's like a whole slew of books written by Edmund Borici.
		I'm going to pronounce his name wrong, but Siskill.
		All the scrolls have already been transcribed.
		It was kind of interesting hearing what the guy said last night.
		I should have called in.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Well, he was very good, by the way.
unidentified		He was good.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		The Dead Sea Scrolls have always fascinated me.
		But what's your take on it?
		Are you saying that the interpretation is going to be put down erroneously, or are they going to ignore it altogether?
unidentified		I guess what I'm saying is that the Catholic Church isn't the kindest for centuries and has been known.
unidentified		I mean, they did an assassination of the Essene people and stole all their literature, and that's how.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Well, now, I'm Catholic, and I'm sure a lot of other people are Catholic.
		But with every religion since the beginning of mankind, you have had religions taking advantage of people for their own self-righteous means.
		There's no doubt about religions have had problems.
		And, you know, there's been talk about the banking system throughout the church and everything else.
		And I'm not telling anybody anything they haven't already heard or read about.
		But, you know, every religion, every religion, has had some of its own evil involved in it.
		Thanks for the call, Elizabeth.
		Let's move out to the wild card caller, Flagstaff, Arizona.
		Austin, you're on coast to coast.
		Hi, Austin.
unidentified		Hey, George.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		How are you?
unidentified		Well, I've been better, but I'm a little bit nauseated listening to all this media today by the 530 network news.
		We're jumping on the bandwagon of political correctness to declare that this was an accident rather than terrorist sabotage, even before the investigation has even gotten underway.
		But then, of course, I figured from the moment that this crash happened that we're going to get the verdict of an accident rather than sabotage, because there are certain people in this country who don't want to admit the fact that we've got terrorists running around in this country working as aircraft mechanics at airports who are in a position to do whatever's necessary to make a plane come apart in mid-air.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		What the media should have done, the mainstream media should have done, is simply reported that we do not know what this is.
unidentified		That would have been objective.
		Absolutely.
		And that's not what the powers that be are paying them to do.
		You remember TWA 800 you were talking about?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I know that very, very well.
unidentified		Do you remember those reports of witnesses who said they saw missiles going up against that plane?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Close to 200 witnesses.
		And one of the reasons I know about this is TWA's hub is based here in St. Louis.
		Most of the people who work there and the executive staff I have talked to, 200 witnesses reported seeing something go up, not down, from that plane.
		You're absolutely right.
		Let's pick up and go to another caller west of the Rockies, Seattle, Washington.
		Doug, welcome to Coast to Coast.
		Hi, Doug.
unidentified		Hi, George.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I have a question about the Chobolton crop circles.
		The last I heard, Art was talking about concentric rings.
		A researcher had gone out there, electrical engineer.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		All right, speak up real loudly too, Doug, if you can.
unidentified		And the electrical engineer found these concentric circles.
		When he stepped inside of them, there were 80 volts of static electricity coming up.
		Then 911 happened, and I haven't heard anything more about the crop circles.
		I'm wondering if I missed the story.
		Is there any more news on that?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I don't think there is any more news.
		I have not heard anything either, other than those first reports that you did.
		I would be very curious, though, to get your impression on crop circles.
		You know, Linda Moulton Howe is a great reporter, and she has done some tremendous investigative work about crop circles.
		I'd like your take on it.
		Do you think these, what kind of phenomena do you think it is, or do you think it's all man-made?
unidentified		Well, I think it's interesting that Richard C. Hoagland has said that he thought it was the government's way of breaking the news.
		I've been listening to those reports and actually just started listening to the show right around that time and have listened to it faithfully since and haven't heard any more, which is why I called.
		But I have no idea what's going on.
		It all sounds amazing to me.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I talked with an astronomer.
		He's been on Art Show before, Seth Szostak.
		And he is part of the SETI tracking.
		And he sometimes goes down to Irecibo where they've got the big radio telescope.
		And that apparently is where some of this occurred.
		And he did say, though he is a skeptic of crop circles, he did say it was unusual that the crop circles in question were the same patterns of a signal that they had sent out a long, long time ago.
		Now, he did admit, he said, you know, he did say, hey, this is entirely possible that somebody's got the signal here and they know how to decode it and stuff like that.
		But even he admitted, though he doesn't believe, admitted that it was a little bizarre.
		A little bizarre indeed.
		Let's go out to Arkansas, east of the Rockies, in Van Buren, Arkansas.
		Marcia, welcome to Coast to Coast.
		Hi, Marcia.
unidentified		George, it's a pleasure talking to you.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		It's a pleasure having you on the program.
unidentified		Thank you very much.
		I'm calling along the same order as your wildcard caller that was talking about the terrorism.
		I'm not looking for a conspiracy theory, but I don't know if you heard the CEO of American Airlines, when he made his statement to the media this morning, he was going over the maintenance history of the plane.
		The first thing he said was, this plane had level A maintenance November 11th.
		He said no year.
		He just said November 11th.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Well, but some people had assumed that that meant yesterday.
unidentified		Yes.
		That's what I am assuming, since he did not specify a year.
		It had had level B maintenance, which is more intensive, in October.
		And it was scheduled for a full overhaul this coming June or July.
		It really is odd that he would have had, the plane would have had the level A maintenance yesterday and crash just, what, two to three minutes after taking off this morning.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Well, and I'll tell you what's strange.
		The Airbus 300 is generally a very reliable plane.
		There have not been a lot of plane crashes with that plane where an engine falls off and a tail fin falls off.
		And if you agree with some of the reports where a part of a wing fell off, yet every expert I have talked to feels that this was indeed an accident.
		I think the earlier caller was absolutely right and right on the button that, you know, the media really has a right to report on episodes as they occur, but they really have to run it right down the middle.
		And it is, I think, irresponsible to come out right away and say, this is an accident or this is a terrorist attack when nobody knows.
		And it's important for all of us to understand that when episodes occur like this, first of all, everybody's paranoid.
		We're all paranoid about this.
		And you look at the irony of the fact that this would happen two months to a day after 9-11.
		There are just too many strange things that have happened.
		One could assume, hey, something happened here.
		Maybe it wasn't an accident.
		But let's find out what happens first.
		The problem, as I see it, is this tremendous distrust of government.
		That no matter what they say, you're not going to believe them.
		And that's sad.
		It's sad that government can't convince us that whatever they say is accurate, is true.
		And it's sad that you and I have to always think that maybe, just maybe, we're not getting the real picture.
		Episodes like Roswell, and there are a lot of people who don't believe that Timothy McVeigh acted alone in Oklahoma City.
		And there are a lot of people who are upset about the way we handled Waco.
		When all these things occur, people tend to lose faith with government.
		And that's really, to me, that's the sad part about it.
		Let's go to Chicago.
		First time caller Cliff.
		Welcome to Coast to Coast.
		Hi, Clifford.
unidentified		Hi, how are you?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing good.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Thanks.
unidentified		Hey, real quick, Kara, I think I might run out of time, but I agree with you fully on how the media portrays everything.
		One thing that I don't hear, and I'm pretty upset about, is what's going on with the stimulus package about giving the corporations this rebate for their taxes that they've paid, billions and millions of dollars and sold supposedly to keep our economy going.
		But if we look at what they had done with the airlines, with the billions that they got and laid off 94,000 people, I don't believe that we should be giving big corporations this kind of money for them just to pocket the money.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I'd like to know where we're getting all this money to give all these windfall tax breaks.
unidentified		Exactly.
		Now, even if they do go and they upgrade or do whatever and people make cars or IBM or computers, the people wouldn't be able to afford it to buy anything.
		Nobody's working, you know.
		So I have a really hard time with what they've done.
		I would want to see something, which the media is not talking about.
		We're not getting any information, so they're supposedly working on it.
		The same thing with getting security, federalizing security, that's not going to fix the problem.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Now, would you be in favor, though, of these huge corporations getting some tax breaks that created jobs?
unidentified		I do, if that's what it will do, create jobs.
		I don't see just giving them a check and just not expecting anything back.
		I would want to see something like what they do with Chrysler.
		Remember when they paid off?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I don't know Chrysler.
		Oh, sure.
		But you had a Lee Iacoka there who was able to come up and create, and he even had Chrysler pay that loan off way before it was due.
unidentified		Right.
		Well, how much did the shares go when they first came out?
		It was real cheap.
		Everybody kicks himself in the butt.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I think Chrysler was down to like four bucks a share, maybe.
		Something like that.
		General Motors, though, I tell you what's encouraging is the automobile industry, they've got this 0% financing.
		General Motors reported quarterly sales up 31% from a year ago.
		That's pretty darn good when you can do that.
		And I've got to tell you one thing, you know, coming from Detroit, which was my hometown, when I was a young lad, you've got to sell cars in this country in order to stimulate the economy.
		And that's got to happen.
		And I'm impressed with the fact that Americans decided to buy American-made products, American-made cars, because that was so important.
		And if General Motors is indicative of the other automobile industries here in this country, then maybe, just maybe we're going to pull out of it.
		Let's go to the wildcard caller now.
		It'll be the last caller of the hour, Saskatoon.
		Jack, welcome to Coast to Coast.
		Hi, Jack.
unidentified		How you doing, George?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing okay, thanks.
unidentified		Good.
unidentified		It appears to me that what happened in New York this morning is possible that this plane had been hijacked on its way down the runway.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Why do you say that?
unidentified		Well, like, the footage that I saw, I mean, there was F-18s and F-15s in the area.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		And they were dispatched pretty quickly.
unidentified		And it appears to me that they might have shot it down.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Well, but do you think government would tell us the truth if that was all the case?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Or have you lost faith?
unidentified		Well, I mean, I don't think that they could.
		I mean, that would be just...
		I mean, there was a lot of high-powered people there from all around the world.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely right.
		And this is the last thing that they need.
		Jack, thanks for your call.
		But let me just say this about this episode today.
		There's got to be a point in your life where you've got to have some faith and trust in government.
		Why don't we just all stand back for a little bit and say, let's find out what they actually report to us.
		Let's find out what's in that voice recorder.
		Let's find out what the voice data recorder has, what the data recorder has.
		Let's put it all together.
		I'm George Norrie.
		I'll see you soon on Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Talk Radio 710, KCMO.
		Who said that growing old had to be tough?
		It doesn't.
		Remember the reports.
		This is Coast to Coast A.M. with George Norrie.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to Coast to Coast AM.
		I'm George Norrie.
		You know, I was filling up my car a couple days ago.
unidentified		And after I got it filled up, I forgot my wallet.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Now, I was at a gas station where they didn't know who I was.
		I had no identification on me.
		I didn't have any money on me.
		You talk about embarrassing.
		And I kept saying to myself, gosh, if this stuff was only free.
		Well, when the executives from Coast to Coast called me and said, hey, Art's back is still sore.
		Can you do some shows?
		I said, sure.
		What's our first topic?
		What are we going to get into?
		And they said, infinite energy, free energy.
		And I said, yes.
		So that's what we're talking about this hour, right here on Coast to Coast, AM.
unidentified		KCMO.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		The Sea Crane people sent me a big box today.
		It included a radio, which I'll talk to you about later, but I'm telling you, it also included a flashlight, and it wasn't a normal, ordinary flashlight.
		Here's an example.
		Has this ever happened to you?
		You'll go and you'll grab that flashlight and, you know, it's always supposed to be ready when you need it.
		And guess what?
		It doesn't work.
		So you rummage around through the house and you find some new batteries, you put it in there, and guess what?
		It doesn't work.
		And then maybe it's the bulb, right?
		And you happen to have a bulb, right?
		So you replace it.
		Nope.
		It doesn't work.
		Triple whammy, nothing works.
		Well, the C-Crane Company has created now a new generation of LED flashlights that will change the way you think about flashlights.
		And believe it or not, flashlights are critical when you need them.
		The CC Trek Light at $29.95 and the larger CC Expedition at $59.95 share the same remarkable features.
		The white LED bulbs are guaranteed for life.
		The batteries last 20 times longer than regular flashlights.
		That's a long time.
		And they're also waterproof and shock proof.
		So if you drop it, it's not going to go out on you.
		Or if you take it in the shower, for example, it'll be okay too.
		You can learn more about the LED flashlights plus dozens of other useful and innovative items.
		Call them toll-free.
		Get ready to write this number down.
		Here it goes.
		1-800-522-8863.
		The number again for more information, and it'll also give you a free catalog.
		800-522-8863.
		800-522-8863.
		And you can see the best flashlights on the web at CCrane.
		I'm going to spell it for you.com.
		It's CCRANE.com.
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unidentified		KCMO.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		So you're tired of paying high energy costs and you wish, gosh, I want some other alternative.
		I wish there was something out there, but there isn't.
		What am I going to do?
		You feel the big boys keep squeezing you at the gas pumps?
		Well, maybe, just maybe, there's a new way.
		And we're going to find out about it.
		My guest is Dr. Eugene Malov.
		He is the editor-in-chief and publisher of a bi-monthly magazine called Infinite Energy Magazine.
		It's based out of Concord, New Hampshire.
		And we are going to talk about getting fire from ice.
		What does that all mean?
		Well, Dr. Malov, we're talking about cold fusion, aren't we?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		You sure are.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Thanks for having me on your show this evening.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's my pleasure.
		My pleasure.
		You know, a lot of people have talked about cold fusion over the years.
		And back in 1989, there were some announcements about cold fusion.
		And I think a lot of people, including myself, thought, this is the energy source of the future.
		This is exciting.
		What happened to it?
		Where'd it go?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was quite a story.
		We could spend a lot of time telling all the details of it, but in essence, there was a claim made at the University of Utah on March 23rd, 1989.
		Turned out it was by coincidence only 12 hours before the Exxon Valley's ran aground.
		That's a cosmic coincidence for you.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Everything is ironic these days, isn't it?
unidentified		Yeah, that's the honest truth.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Basically, doctors Pons and Fleischman.
		Pons was the head of the chemistry department at the University of Utah.
		Martin Fleischman was a professor from the University of Southampton in England, world-famous electrochemist.
		They basically said, look, at this press conference held at the University of Utah, we have a cell that includes water, a special kind of water called heavy water.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Not the kind of drinking out of a bottle or anything like that.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		No, it was a special kind of cell that they were using, like a thermos cell, actually, transparent.
unidentified		And there's heavy water in it with a little salt, so to speak.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		And they had two pieces of metal, one palladium, and the other platinum, and they ran a current through it.
		They measured very carefully the current, because that's what electrochemists do.
		It splits the water, and certain interesting reactions were happening in the palladium.
		But the bottom line, that is one of the electrodes in this system, they said they had studied this system very carefully over a number of years.
		They self-funded their research, paid about $100,000 to do that of their own money.
		And they said, you know, we're getting more energy out than we're putting in by the electricity.
		The heat energy that we're, not radiation, the heat energy we're getting out of the cell adds up, when we measure it carefully, to more energy than going in by electricity.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Was it dramatically more?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		No, in fact, it wasn't dramatically more in the sense that it wasn't like thousands of times the electricity going in.
		That happened later.
		In fact, later, they had cells, years later.
		They were able to turn off the reaction and it would stay hot by itself, which is quite amazing.
		When's the last time you found a hot rock lying on the ground that was staying hot without cooling?
unidentified		Yeah.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		That wasn't anything but radioactive.
		But going back to the original story, they did very careful bookkeeping on this heat process, and they found out that the amount of energy coming out was so large relative to what could possibly be explained by any kind of ordinary chemical reaction, they said, you know, this has to be nuclear.
		In fact, we think it's related to fusion.
		We don't know exactly what kind of fusion it is.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Well, I was going to say, they were not sure what they had there?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		They weren't absolutely sure.
		And they made that clear in their paper that came out.
		It was a complicated story how this all came about.
		There was another university, Brigham Young, that was 45 miles away.
		And due to some unfortunate aspects of how they, when they sought some funding from the Department of Energy, there was a review process, and the two groups got to know each other.
		There was jealousy involved, and there were suspicions involved.
		Professor Stephen Jones at Brigham Young University wanted to go out and disclose this whole discovery and his work, which was similar but not related to the heat that they were getting out.
		And it was a bad scene.
		So this forced the public disclosure about 18 months before Drs.
		Pons and Fleischmann really wanted to go public.
		So in other words, it was indeed a premature announcement because they really didn't want to announce it.
		They felt it was nuclear.
		Jones felt his setup, his cell, was a nuclear kind of thing, producing only neutrons, no heat.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		They wanted to hit us big time over the head with this.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, the university felt, the University of Utah felt its patent position would be jeopardized if they didn't make an announcement since Jones was going to blab anyway at the upcoming American Physical Society meeting.
		But Pons and Fleischman made the claim that there was much more heat coming out that could be explained by a chemical reaction, and the bottom line is they were correct.
		No matter what has happened since then to convince members of the public or anyone else that this is malarkey, the overwhelming scientific evidence that built up over the course of a few years and then now is 100% certain, in my view, just by looking at the evidence, you can tell that, and by observing certain cells, even some we have in our own laboratory here at this moment, in a different way than Pons and Fleischmann had.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Well, are you saying that you can actually, and of course you've got to have the apparatuses for it, but you can actually take water and get energy out of it?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		There is zero doubt, and there has been no doubt at all since about 91, two years after the announcement.
		And this is published in federal research.
		People can go to our website and they can look up the several, I think I quoted about seven to ten, particular federal research references that are public, okay, and they were in a memo to the White House.
		The White House did ask me, called me in Bowen Hampshire in early 2000, year 2000, submitted this memo.
		It's 8,500 words.
		It basically gives the overall message to the White House that they wanted.
		It's been resubmitted to the Bush White House.
		They've done it.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		What if you went past 8,500 words?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		They wouldn't have looked at it or what?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
		8,500 words is maybe a lot, but the executive summary of 500 words basically says, Mr. President, you don't have to accept this or give funding for this or do anything but do just one thing.
		Say you're interested in it and have it investigated.
		What happened in 1989 was a tragedy and a travesty.
		It was a kangaroo court.
		22 so-called experts from academia were picked by the Department of Energy.
		This was during the first Bush administration.
		And the Clinton administration was no better, by the way.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, let's not get into the politics.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I want to get into the guts of this energy politics.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		This is story, right?
		We're talking about 300 gallons of gasoline energy equivalent per gallon of water.
		Let that sink in.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		300 gallons of what gasoline would be.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Energy equivalent.
		Now, where does this number come from?
		Let's be clear to your listeners.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I don't know at all.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Water is H2O.
		Okay?
		We all know we've heard that.
		Two hydrogen atoms, one oxygen per molecule of water.
		Any water.
		All right?
		Now you realize that water has different types.
		There's a different type of water that is in there, too.
		It's called heavy water.
		People may have heard of that.
		It's when the hydrogen in the water molecule is a heavy form of hydrogen.
		It just happens to have an extra particle called a neutron in the nucleus.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		When you dip a cup of water, let's say, out of a pond or out of your tap.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Right.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		What is that called?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		What kind of water is that?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		That's what we call that.
		You'd normally say that's ordinary water, but it has in it a tiny amount of heavy water.
		All water has heavy water in it.
		One 6700th, one over 6,700 approximately, that fraction of water is heavy water.
		And it has that heavy hydrogen in it.
		And when you fuse that hydrogen in cold fusion, you get helium.
		And that helium, when you produce that, that's a non-toxic pollutant.
		It's the same kind of, you wouldn't call it a pollutant.
		It's a non-toxic product.
		That helium is the same type of helium that you have in a kid's balloon.
		So the process produces a product which is of no negative consequence.
		And that amount of heavy water in that ordinary one gallon of gasoline, one gallon of water, pardon me, from your brook pond or ocean has enough heavy hydrogen in it such that when you fuse it to helium, you do get 300 gallons of gasoline energy equivalent in terms of heat, not radiation.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		That's incredible.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Now, the hot fusion people who have had billions of dollars spent on their process.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean by hot fusion?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		All right.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		For 50 years.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		And don't get too technical.
unidentified		All right.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		This country has been working.
		This country has been working on a major project to tame what were thought to be the central reactions that are occurring in the core of stars, our sun, for example.
		And it's the same kind of reaction, generally speaking, that's in the hydrogen bomb, which of course is a very powerful weapon.
		That's fusion, where you take light elements like hydrogen, fuse them together, and produce a heavier element such as helium.
		And they haven't succeeded.
		Of course, the hydrogen bomb is a success.
		It works.
		But taming it so that you can capture that kind of multi-million degree heat, a multi-million degree reaction in hot plasmas at hundreds of millions of degrees, and putting it in magnetic fields and so forth and so on, or shooting lasers at the various ways that they've tried in this high-energy approach, that has never produced a practical reactor.
		It has produced lots of academic research, lots of billions of dollars of tax money, and it got nowhere and is getting nowhere.
		And as they say in a joke, hot fusion is the energy of the future and always will be.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		It's probably because they'll never be able to contain it.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, we can go into details, but that's not important.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		The main thing is that the chock troops against coal fusion that emerged early on in 1989 were in fact those vested academic interests that are interested in continuing this absurd white elephant program known as Hot Fusion.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Well, and I can see it, where you'll have that faction of people who, for their own agenda will be opposed to something that's new and novel and potentially profitable for somebody else.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Didn't I see something in the movie The Saint that is very similar to what you're talking about?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the movie The Saint uses cold fusion as a theme.
		I happened to have been the technical advisor to it to make sure that some of the ways they talked about cold fusion were reasonable.
		It was a fictional story.
		But based on a true energy source, most people coming to that movie or seeing The Saint would not realize that what they're seeing in that movie is based on a reality, not the exact details in it.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		That was a great movie.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		That's the one with Al Kilmer and Elizabeth Shu, right?
unidentified		That's correct.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Great actors in Elizabeth.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		That was a great movie.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I thought it was good.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		I was responsible only for technical validity in it.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Well, how realistic was that movie?
		Because I can still see it in my head.
		How realistic was it?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Very realistic.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		I mean, the very words that Elizabeth Hsu uttered, namely in a gallon of heavy water, again, that's the purified form, not just the gallon of ordinary water, but concentrated heavy water, you could drive a car 55 million miles.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Oh, 55 million miles?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, in one cubic kilometer of ocean.
		That's less than a cubic mile of ocean, of course, six-tenths of a mile on edge, a big cube of our ocean.
		And by the way, most of that water would not disappear or be dissociated in using it all up.
		In just one cubic kilometer, there's enough coal fission energy to equal the energy of all known oil reserves on Earth.
		That's free energy.
		Now, this discovery has been made, made in the United States, and unfortunately, even though the evidence is now 100% certain that it is a real phenomenon and that helium can be produced, and that other forms of it are real as well, related to it.
		It's a much more complex story than just the original discovery.
		It's ignored.
		And it's exactly what this world needs.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Are you telling me the big boys have their thumb on it and they won't let it up?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		It's not what people think.
		Most people, when they hear about this, the first thing they think of is the oil companies have suppressed this.
		And they have not.
		It is academia.
		It is academia.
		It's the stupidity of academia.
		Look, I was at MIT.
		I'm an MIT graduate in engineering.
		I happen to have turned my interest to some extent into science journalism.
		I was the chief science writer at the MIT news office when this broke.
		And I observed it very carefully, and I, of course, did not believe it in the beginning.
		I took a wait-and-see attitude, as most other people did.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Does it still excite you?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Does it still excite me?
		Yes.
		yes it does but in a way We're coming on the 13th anniversary next March 23rd.
		You know, I'm disgusted with what's happened to it.
		I grew up loving science all my life, but this was the first time that I had an encounter with not science, but non-science.
		In other words, politics, arrogance and greed, overcoming the search for truth.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to the real world.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		I was in the imaginary world.
		I had no idea how bigoted and outrageous so-called scientists could be.
		I had no idea.
		Now, many people will say, I have a colleague, Jed Rothwell, who's a friend of mine who's more in business than in science.
		He said, well, of course, that's what did you expect would happen.
		Well, maybe he was right.
		In other words, this outrageous treatment of a subject which should at the very least have gotten an impartial hearing, and if it had gotten an impartial hearing, they certainly would have concluded, you know, the evidence is building up.
		Maybe we cannot determine yes or no in four or five months that it's real or not real.
		But perhaps we should spend a little more money and time before we throw the baby out with the bathwater.
		Well, let's assume that they chose to do the latter.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Let's assume you're right.
		It's being squashed here in this country.
		But what about in other countries where obviously somebody can grab this technology and run with it?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		It's being researched all over the world.
		And by the way, even though official government research in the United States, except in a very limited way by military funding on occasion, the military seems to know what it's doing, the Navy in particular from time to time, it is being researched very heavily in Japan, heavily in Italy.
		Italy has an official program.
		The Russians are very interested in it.
		The next coal fusion conference next May, I think the 19th through the 24th, 2002, is in Beijing.
		So it is going forward, regardless of what official U.S. policy is.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Well, the Chinese will jump on this in a heartbeat, won't they?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		They certainly will.
		So, you know, it's really outrageous that we have to even, 13 years almost after the discovery was announced, we have to be talking about it on a very fine radio program.
		But nonetheless, why we should be doing something about it instead of just talking.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		All right, stay with us, Dr. Eugene Mala.
		We're talking about cold fusion, this infinite.
		I mean, when you look out into space and you say, my gosh, here's energy that will last, it's cheap, it's probably free in most cases, and we'll never run out of it.
		Except no one's producing it.
		We'll talk more about it right here on coast to coast.
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george noory ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back to Coast to Coast AM.
		George Norrie sitting in for the master art bell still nursing that story back.
		Can you imagine if you had a coal fusion type place, a house, and you got your bill for electricity?
		The monthly bill, and it said two cents.
		I could live with that.
		Let's find out in just a moment just how real that is on Coast to Coast AM.
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george noory ▲ ● ▼		George Norrie, back with you on Coast to Coast AM with my guest, Dr. Eugene Malov.
		We're talking about cold fusion, this seemingly limitless energy.
		Dr. Malov, tell me what are some of the uses for our everyday life if this kind of energy really became practical?
		What can we use it for?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, when it becomes practical is the issue, not if.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		It's going to become practical, whether or not there's an official support.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Speak up in that telephone if you can.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there are plenty of companies working.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Is that loud enough?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I think so.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		The louder the better.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		There are many private companies in the United States working on this.
		Private companies, private individuals.
		There are people in, as I say, these foreign countries that I've listed.
		So it's going to happen.
		All right.
		What the world would look like with coal fusion is as follows.
		We would not have central power stations, in my opinion, in all likelihood.
		We would have small, compact units per home, or per apartment building, as an example, or in a major industrial complex, there might be one plant.
		Basically, the reactors would provide electricity and heat or cooling, and the cost of the produced electricity would be virtually zero.
		There would be no recurrent fuel costs because really the cost of the heavy water fraction out of water would be so minuscule compared to the value of the energy that it would not be a factor.
		Basically, there would be a capital cost to acquire the equipment, obviously, to produce the electricity and heat and cooling, but there would be no recurrent fuel costs.
		Now, this is a very alien concept to us.
		We're used to the idea that energy has to be expensive, or it has to at least be something that we have to pay for.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		And, Gene, as we get that thought, too, tell me in the best words you can, and you really got to beam into that phone for you.
		All right, if you would.
		And try to keep that as constant a level as you can.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		All right, I hope.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		With the energy, as we call infinite energy, which is the name of your magazine, do you reuse it over and over again, or do you have to go get another gallon of water to do it?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		The amount of heavy water that you use is so small that for all practical purposes, a very small amount will last a very long time.
		Okay?
		Do you worry about whether or not it's going to rain outside ever to get a few drops of rain?
		That's what we're talking about.
		Basically, some devices would come preloaded with the fuel and with the catalysts, and that would be the end of it for the life of the product.
		Or you'd throw the product out, throw the coal fusion reactor out, or recharge it with some very inexpensive module of some kind, and that would continue.
		and you have this free electricity.
unidentified		Okay?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		When you talk about free electricity, I mean, Obviously, everything has to have maintenance.
		So there would be a cost for maintenance.
		But the fuel cost, the recurrent fuel cost, would be zero.
		Not even the two cents that you quoted earlier.
		There would be no power lines.
		That's another thing.
		Power lines and the grid system would be obsolete.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Gone, totally.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Gone.
		Cars would be fueled by engines preloaded in an ideal situation.
		You might have to replace some catalyst or something the way you currently have to replace an oil filter or something like that.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Well, what would an engine in a car look like with this kind of system?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		It would probably be smaller than the current engine.
		The very high power densities have already been measured in coal fusion reactors.
		Kilowatts, thousands of watts per cubic centimeter, have already been measured in some coal fusion reactions.
		So it's not expected that the reactor would be very big.
		It would be very small.
		It would generate steam, perhaps, from the heat, and that steam would be turned into electricity to power the car.
		Now, many people have heard of fuel cells, right?
		Absolutely.
		They're the rage.
		Now, fuel cells are nice because when you use a fuel cell in the center of a city, all you get is the pollutant water, which isn't so bad.
		But someone has to produce that hydrogen somewhere.
		And it's going to come from one of two places.
		It's going to come from water or it's going to come from fossil fuels.
		Okay, there are various ways of running modern fuel cells today.
		And we know they don't really have them all over the place yet in cars.
		But fuel cells require fuel, require hydrogen, or require someone to make the hydrogen with some other energy source, like a nuclear reactor Or something else.
		But coal fusion has so much energy per reaction, per hydrogen, that you don't need much of it at all to keep your car running indefinitely, or almost indefinitely, except for a rare recharge, and there's not even a water pollution coming out of it.
		All there is is helium.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me ask you something on a set of scales.
		How would you categorize in terms of as part of evolution the use of fossil fuels?
		Would you say it's archaic?
		Would you say it's modern?
		Okay, you'd say that's archaic.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		It's completely archaic.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		What would you then call cold fusion?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, cold fusion is the next stage beyond the fossil, one of the next stages.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		There are some other energy sources we can talk about, but let's focus on something that's absolutely proven worldwide in numerous laboratories.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		All right, but this is where I'm headed.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Then we'll come right back to you.
unidentified		Right.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I believe in life someplace out there.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Do you, by the way?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Alien civilization?
unidentified		Yeah.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		No question about it, in my opinion.
		Life is everywhere.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		If there's a civilization out there that's a million years ahead of us, would they be using cold fusion in part?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Or would they have used it a million years ago?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		They might still be using it because it's very convenient.
		It makes heat.
		Another thing that cold fusion does, that we didn't even discuss yet, is it appears to be a new class of reactions that changes elements.
		Some of the so-called cold fusion cells with different types of reactant materials and what have you have been shown to transmute elements.
		This is very much like alchemy, except it's modern alchemy, and it's working, and it's detected by corporations like Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, top research labs at Hokkaido University, for example, in Japan, many other places.
		So I think an advanced civilization might be using coal fusion-like processes for transmuting elements.
		It will be possible for sure to make things like precious metals, which will no longer be precious, of course, and many other things that we need.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Could you use it for rocket fuel?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		I'm an astronautical engineer.
		One of the things that you could use coal fusion for very soon if the energy reactors were developed, not so much for lifting off with the kind of Durman-Drong that we need today in these chemical rockets, which are archaic II, but once in orbit, we could very definitely use an electric generating source that could be powered by coal fusion, let's say to power the space station so we don't need all those solar panels.
		Or let's say to power the ion engine of a very high efficiency rocket.
		Ion engines have already been developed.
		They have a very low thrust, but they're very highly efficient, which means you have to have only a tiny amount of mercury or cesium fuel that it shoots out.
		And you can go to the planets very rapidly with ion engines.
		The only problem with ion engines today, as I say, that are already developed and they're working, is that we don't have a good power source.
		Right now, we have to rely on solar cells, things like that.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		What I find fascinating, though, is that this universe seems to have everything we need to do whatever we need to do.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Except human beings, with their armoring, as it were, and their bad behavior and their just unbelievable obstinacy in denying realities that are brought to them on silver platters on occasion.
		Human beings are their own worst enemy.
		There's very little doubt about that.
		Look at the strife in the world today.
		Do we really need this strife?
		Of course not.
		But we're doing it anyway.
		Do we really need to tell scientists who come to the world and say, here, I have a discovery.
		We're not sure exactly what it is.
		But why don't you look at it, okay, and investigate it.
		And then maybe, since we see it and we're convinced it's real, maybe you will too.
		But instead of that, they get run out of the country.
		You know, Stanley Pons, an American citizen, wasn't.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Is he still alive?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but he's no longer an American.
		He went to France.
		He was sick of being called a fraud.
		I'm pretty sick of it too, but I'm still an American.
		And he couldn't take it any longer.
		He was, of course, the focus, the focus, one of the focuses.
		Now, Dr. Martin Fleischman of England, a much more jovial and thick-skinned guy, I would have to say, he survived it, and he's still working in it, aiding the Italian program.
		He's getting on in years.
		He was 62 when the cofusion was announced.
		He's now, you know, 13 years older.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		How soon do you think, Dr. Malov, how soon do you think it'll be before some company or some government says, we have it, we're using it, and here it is?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, it could happen anytime.
		It could be next month, it could be a year from now, or five years, or whatever.
		It's not an easy process.
		Let's be clear on that.
		Part of the reason it failed, and it should not have been abused ever, of course, was that since it wasn't so readily, readily, readily reproducible, okay, it was like the transistor in its early days.
		It wasn't that reproducible, okay?
		Little contaminants could prevent the reaction from occurring, etc.
		It did get a bum rap because people wanted to see it, and maybe too much hype was put on it in the beginning by the media and or some of the inventors.
		But that's neither here nor there.
		That's water over the dam.
		The question of the hour, as I've always said about this, is was it real or not?
		And that's what the government panel that screwed us all, humanity you might say, in that early year by doing this rush to judgment.
		They were not interested in truth.
		They were interested in a preconceived notion that said this cannot be true.
unidentified		You See, hot fusion produces deadly radiation.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		And they thought, gee, if they're producing this heat, they must be having lots of fusion reactions.
		Therefore, they're supposed to be getting lots of deadly radiation.
		And since they're not getting lots of deadly radiation and they're not dead and sick, they can't be getting lots of heat.
		There's an incompatibility, the enemies said.
		But they really should have looked at it more carefully.
		They should have said, you know, maybe when fusion occurs on the surface of a metal or in a metal, maybe it happens in a different way.
		There were lots of scientists, by the way, who said that.
		Nobel laureate Julian Schwinger, who was in favor of studying it.
		He said that.
		But the enemies who were in hot fusion, who had their preconceived notions of how this had to work and produce deadly radiation, they wouldn't give it the time of day.
		And so we're paying for it now.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Are you upset or are you frustrated with what's going on?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Both, of course.
		I mean, it's extremely frustrating to realize that our own government has at its disposal the data that should indicate the value of research and that patents should be granted, for example.
		We've had a lot of trouble in the United States even getting patent covered.
		Some companies have succeeded in various ways, but it's been a hit or miss.
		And many people, such as Pons and Fleischman themselves, and other people, such as Dr. Mitch Swartz in Massachusetts, another MIT graduate who's working on coal fusion, have been really screwed by the patent process and the patent system that has had certain rotten eggs and rotten apples in it that have decided, along with the hot fusion physicists, this can't be real, therefore we're not going to give it a patent.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Is this an effort to keep us down, to keep companies that are making a lot of money with an alternative energy and they just don't want us to have cheaper or freer energy?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		That's possible, but I don't think it's really explained that way.
		I know it's appealing to think of the story as the evil oil companies suppressing this, but I don't think it really is that.
		I think the oil companies, frankly, are too stupid to understand the reality of this, and they're too powerful.
		They've got plenty of money.
		The executives and the various companies have golden parachutes, etc.
		Saudi Arabia has no idea what's going to happen to it.
		It's dead meat, by the way.
		In other words, the existence of this reaction that's been proved in laboratories means today that they are finished.
		Absolutely finished.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Eventually.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Eventually, but the writing is on the wall, okay?
		In other words, the death sentence for the oil age has already been written.
		The only question is, when is the sentence going to be carried out?
		And it will be carried out as soon as one or more companies introduces into the marketplace a device of some kind which will show that it's real.
		Now, preferably, yup.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Who would make money with this, though?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		The people making the equipment, I guess, to convert it?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Let's go to the computer analogy.
		You don't pay today for the amount of calculations that your computer does.
		We used to pay for that in the old days when we had big mainframes.
		But we don't pay for calculations any longer by computers.
		We just buy the computer, put it on our desk, and put as much software as we want on it.
		We have to pay for that, of course.
		But some of you don't.
		You download it.
		But now in Cold Fusion, okay, you'll have to pay for the reactor, but you won't have to pay for the recurring costs of the electricity that we currently get or the fuel-ups that we get at gas stations.
		But there'll be plenty of jobs.
		No one should be afraid that Cold Fusion or any other infinite energy source is going to put millions or billions of workers out of work.
		There'll be plenty of new work.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Ah, but we forgot one big thing.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Taxes.
		Oh, the government will find a way to tax it, of course.
		They'll put some kind of meter on it.
		Although I don't actually think that's going to succeed well because it will be too easy to get the free energy anyway, and therefore, even as much as government would like to control it and tax it, it's going to be hard to do.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		How big would these machines be, let's say, at our house?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		How big would it be?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Smaller than your current furnace, probably.
unidentified		Wow.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		And every house, by the way, is already perfectly set up for this kind of reactor because, of course, you already have your heat distribution system or cooling loops in your house, right?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		The pipes are there.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		You don't need to.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		The pipes, your condenser, everything's there.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Everything's there.
		Okay, the wiring through the house is there for your lights.
		All you need is a nice little generator down in your basement.
		Now, sometimes when we have power failures here in New Hampshire, I go out and I click on our five-kilowatt electric generator that runs by gasoline.
		Now, if it were working by coal fusion, I wouldn't click it on.
		It would be always on.
		And it's very small.
		And a coal fusion generator, I wouldn't expect, to be a heck of a lot bigger than that.
		I'd want 10 kilowatts, not 5 kilowatts.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		How much do you think the generator would cost?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		I think in the beginning they would cost less than 10,000.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		And I think eventually they would cost probably less than or approximately what a current heating system would cost.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Well, here's the thing, though.
		Americans might say, well, let's see, I'm spending $150 a month for electricity.
		I'm spending about $120 a month for natural gas.
		That's $270.
		So I'm spending about $3,000 for, and you're not talking about your car yet.
		So spending about $3,000 a year for utilities in my house.
		Do I want to spend $10,000, which is three and a half years?
		I guess in the long run, you'd save money, right?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Without question.
		No question at all.
		And not only that, you'd feel so good about it because you wouldn't have, we would be energy independent of foreign sources.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		That is the most important thing.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		That would be important.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		And the environment would put profit, too.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		The magazine is called Infinite Energy.
		It's the magazine of new energy technology.
		You know, quite frankly, maybe it is time that we have a new energy source.
		Unfortunately, we've been talking about this for years.
		For years.
		Matter of fact, ever since the Iranian hostage situation when they took over our embassy.
		Back a long time ago, we always said we've got to get away from foreign dependence on Earth.
		Still never happened.
		We've got more to come.
		I'm George Norrie, and you're listening to Coast to Coast, AM.
unidentified		You're calling to me up.
		Talk radio 710, KCMO.
		Hey, Mark Andrews, once again for NutriSense, a company that makes sense.
		Come on.
		Come on.
		Thank you.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with George Norris on Premier Radio Networks.
		To talk with George from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach George at area code 541-665-0520.
		And the wildcard line is open at area code 541-665-0521.
		Now, here's George Norrie.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back to Coast to Coast A.M. I'm George Norrie, sitting in for Art Bell.
		And we continue our discussion about cold fusion.
		As a matter of fact, there is a video out now, a very fast-paced documentary narrated by James Scotty Doohan of Star Trek fame.
		You remember Scotty?
unidentified		He's the one who said, Captain, I'm giving it all she's got.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		He is featured in the 70-minute documentary about cold fusion.
		We'll talk a little bit about that in the fact that cold fusion is not really science fiction anymore.
		All that and much more just ahead on Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		KCMO.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, this is Art Bell, and I've got some great news, so please listen very carefully.
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		Now, if you really, really would like to explore space, and I mean deep space, try and imagine, close your eyes and imagine seeing deep star clusters.
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		877-447-4847 or see it online before you buy at forthenightsky.com.
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		One more time.
		Call them in the morning before the 8-inch scopes are not going to be with us very long.
		877-447-4847.
unidentified		KCMO.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		And welcome back, Coast to Coast AM.
		I'm George Norrie with my guest, Dr. Eugene Malov, as we talk about this new, exciting form of energy that nobody has taken To market yet.
		Somebody out there, put together a group and go do it.
		You might make yourself a lot of money.
		Dr. Malov, tell me the apparatus that converts the water.
		Would you see sparks and things flying from it?
		What would it look like?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Some of the reactions that I would say are in the cold fusion field do look very archy and sparky.
		The original cold fusion cell of doctors Pons and Fleischmann and many other people who have reproduced the electrolytic, electrochemical process, it's a very subtle one.
		You wouldn't know much was going on in the cell except the detection of heat coming out of it.
		But some of the cells, which go to higher voltages, do indeed produce underwater plasma-like behavior.
		Some of those at the Hokkaido University as an example, which have published results in the Japanese Journal of Applied Physics, for example.
		They're not banning cold fusion articles.
		Those indeed have significant excess energy.
		And in fact, these transmuted elements, that is elements that were not there to begin with.
		It may have started as tungsten, but it may have on the tungsten many other elements seen by the most advanced spectroscopy techniques that are available in modern labs and in Japanese labs.
		They may be there.
		So it's quite amazing.
unidentified		Now that's, those are two forms.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Another form of coal fusion is being pioneered by a chemical engineer who has three degrees from MIT.
		He happens to live in New Hampshire as well.
		Dr. Les Case.
		His system uses, he started with a World War II oxygen cylinder, a small thing about the size of a football, and he puts in there a special kind of catalyst called, well, a carbon catalyst, which has palladium on it.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I saw him in your video.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Right?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		And so the heat he puts into that cell is less than the amount of heat that comes out, total.
		And Dr. McCubry's group at SRI International, that was Stanford Research Institute, so to speak, done very high quality work to prove that not only does Dr. Case have excess heat in these experimental cells, but that helium is produced.
		It's one of the best validations of the helium product.
		That's what the critics in the beginning wanted.
		They wanted to know how is this working?
		What are you getting out?
		Because the amount of reaction is so low that you can get a lot of heat from a tiny reaction, and you can hardly tell what's, quote-unquote, burning.
		Not really burning, but fusing.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Could you get electrocuted if you touched this little apparatus?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		No, not at all.
		It's very safe.
		What Dr. Case is working toward right at the moment is enhancing his process and making it, trying to make it, self-sustain.
		I think that will be a big turning point when you can regularly make a cold fusion cell, such as he has, self-sustained.
		In other words, enough heat will be generated such that you won't have to supply any heat after it starts.
		It will self-heat, as it were, much as a fire would do.
		A fire is self-sustaining in the sense that you strike a match and you start a fire and combustibles occur, but it kind of goes by itself as long as it's got fuel to burn.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, the same thing could happen in, and has happened actually, in several cold fusion reactions.
		There was one that a company called Clean Energy Technology had.
		They fell on hard times, unfortunately.
		And in fact, recently their CEO died.
		But neither here nor there.
		They had a cell that had 20 watts being put out, and they turned the input power off, and it stayed hot by itself for quite a while.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's pretty good.
		Let's go to some of the phone calls, okay?
		A lot of people want to talk with you about this fascinating cold fusion, this alternative energy.
		I'd like to see it in operation right now, to tell you the truth.
		First-time caller, Mountain View, California.
		James, you're on coast to coast.
		Hi, James.
unidentified		Hi, thanks for taking my call.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		My pleasure.
unidentified		Dr. Malov, I wanted to ask you about codeposition fusion.
		I'm looking at a graph of all the different kinds of cold fusion, and it seems to me that, according to this graph, codeposition looks like it's the best.
		Now, my understanding is that's because there's some kind of an impurity problem.
		And, but I've also...
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Are you talking about a process that Dr. Stan Schpock, for example, developed?
unidentified		Yes, I know the pronunciation is somewhat unfortunate.
		It's Spock and S-Z-P-A-K.
		Right.
		That's a Navy research project.
		I'd like to know why only the Navy is studying codeposition, if it's apparently the best process.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know if it is the best process, and I'm not an expert on that particular process at all.
		I'm more of a generalist, quite frankly, in this field.
		But I would say that all methods need to be tried.
		Now, that's a method whereby electrolytically you deposit metals, as I understand it, in, let us say, a heavy water solution and thus entrap into the matrix the heavy hydrogen in the heavy water.
		It kind of puts it together already as a loaded electrode, as they say.
		We don't want to get too technical for our audience here, but perhaps that is a process that more people should explore.
unidentified		Well, my question would be, are there any other processes that can ensure the same kind of prevention of other impurities other than deuterium entering the palladium?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I'm pretty impressed with the plasma electrolysis, which is so robust that you don't seem to need the kind of incredibly clean environment, perhaps, that one does need, apparently, in some more pristine electrolytic systems, such as the original palladium heavy water one.
		I think this reproducibility problem is indeed the, has been the Achilles' heel of this process.
		Had coal fusion in general been more reproducible in the beginning, it would have disarmed the critics.
		More of them, a few of them at least, would have found it themselves in a more dramatic way.
		Some of the critics did find it, by the way, like MIT, and then they threw it out.
		They didn't know what they were seeing.
		And they threw out the results.
		Caltech did that too, unfortunately.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Would you call this, though, Gene, a miracle in water?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		The ability to do it.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, not in the sense of a supernatural miracle, but we often refer to things as miracles.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		For example, the beauty of a rainbow is certainly causes wonderful.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		But it's gorgeous.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Gorgeous.
		It's miraculous, so to speak, that such a beautiful thing made out of, of course, trillions of water droplets that are refracting light in certain ways.
		But it's a very miraculous-looking thing when you see it.
		The ancients, who had no idea what a rainbow really was, would certainly have felt it was a supernatural occurrence.
		But the idea that we have a source of energy, an infinite source of energy, in water, which is the basis of all life, is truly remarkable.
		And there are many other sources that we can talk about and should talk about in the course of this program.
		There are, for example, the Grenots, Dr. Peter Granot and Neil Granot, Massachusetts and in England, have a process whereby they create sparks or arcs, explode water, so to speak, and get no fancy palladium or anything in it, and they get excess energy.
		And they are even doing it now in air.
		They're making air arcs and doing that.
		And then we have the most amazing work of all, in my opinion, is that of Dr. Paolo and Alexandra Correa in Canada, who have literally motors and other technologies that are working off the ether.
		Yes, the ether, the thing that was said by contemporary 20th century and now mainstream physicists say there is no ether, that they know everything, they've got all the laws of physics figured out, and yet if you go to the Correa website, you know, etherometry.com, you will find testimonial and explanation of the fact that ether can be tapped.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		And you're not talking about the ether that they put us to sleep with?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Not that ether.
		Not the chemical ether that they put us to sleep with before surgery.
		The ether that all physicists in the 19th century firmly believed had to be there as the conveying medium of light.
		How does light get from the stars?
		Does it go through a vacuum?
		Well, that's what current physicists say happens, and they're wrong.
		We took a very, very serious detour in physics in the 20th century with the advent and the apparent success, I say apparent, apparent success of Einstein's theories of relativity.
		We've devoted three issues of our magazine recently to the fact that many critics of those theories have been voices in the wilderness.
		But now it turns out that not only was this an important physics issue in a theoretical sense, that there is an ether, but it turns out that technologically, the ether will be even more important in the long run than cold fusion itself.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		It sounds like, Dr. Malov, that you're always on the cutting edge of controversy, huh?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, I suppose my friends would say that's a good thing, and my enemies would say that proves he's absolutely stark-raving mad.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Let's go back to some more callers.
		Wildcard caller, Kansas City, Missouri.
		Charles, welcome to Coast to Coast A.M. Ike Charles.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		I wanted to ask Dr. Maliffe about zero-point energy, and is Dr. Coray the say of the art in the field?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, the word zero-point energy is interesting.
		Quantum mechanics postulates that there is such a thing, and there are theories to explain zero-point energy.
		But I must say that if you check the website of the Correas, Dr. Paolo and Alexander Correa, you will find alternate explanations, very significant ones, that have to do with not the zero-point energy of quantum mechanics,
		but of an ether that is composed of what they call mass-free charge, mass-free ambipolar charge, sort of an ambidextrous kind of charge that can manifest itself and make motors work, certain types of motors that they have developed.
		They have a device that's patented called a pulsed abnormal glow discharge reactor that's got U.S. and Canadian patents on it, and lo and behold, it produces more energy out than in.
		In fact, when I was there myself visiting their laboratory earlier this year, there was a test that we ran that had 50 watts going in and 500 watts coming out.
		Pretty good.
		Of course, they had other motors.
		You could read the letters of support that I put on their website, and another gentleman did, Mr. Uri Sudak, former chief technology officer of Israel Aircraft Industries, by the way.
		And we both have viewed these motors and find them to be real.
		There is no hanky-panky, by the way.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thanks for your call, Charles.
		It sounds like, though, there are a lot of people out there, Dr. Maloff, who are touching this technology.
		But that it just hasn't all been put together.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		You see, the problem is a more general problem, in my opinion.
		It's not that this one system or that one system has been sidetracked.
		It's that humanity itself has certain problems, okay?
		And some of these problems.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Lots of problems.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Lots of problems.
		And it's a sort of a mutual problem between society and how it works and how physics establishments works and how industrial companies spend their money and so forth.
		And also how inventors react toward various things.
		It's a close coupling between various aspects of human behavior, which sometimes leads to these unfortunate and long-standing hiatuses in understanding how the world really works.
		There was a man by the name of Wilhelm Reich, for instance, and I did not know much about Reich until the Correas brought him to my attention.
		I thought he was some kind of a nut.
		That was the mythology that had grown up about him.
		He was completely marginalized, and yet I would have to say, he was probably one of the greatest scientists of the 20th century.
		He met with Albert Einstein in 1941.
		He tried to show him some clear evidence using thermometers that there was an ether, okay, an apparent energetic ether.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Did he convince Einstein?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, Albert Einstein actually measured this temperature difference, a very small temperature difference, between an air-suspended thermometer, an accurate one, and one that was over what we call a Faraday cage or a steel box.
		And Einstein's assistant, Leopold Infeld, as the story unfolds, this absolutely did happen.
		This is not a myth.
		Leopold Infeld said, you know, we can explain this away.
		Just like later on, almost 50 years later, the physicists explained away, quote unquote, cold fusion, that thermal anomaly.
		So we reported that in issue 37 of Infinite Energy.
		It's an amazing story.
		Correas pointed out how they reproduced that experiment and found out, indeed, Wilhelm Reich, who was famous for Orgone energy, so-called Orgone Energy.
		It's actually more complex than his original conception, how he was marginalized, that is, Wilhelm Reich.
		And he died in 1957 in federal penitentiary, abused by the federal government, in my opinion.
		He was doing research.
		He was not particularly violating anyone's laws.
		He was not selling cancer cures, but they made it out to that.
		And as a result, we've lost six decades, you might say, of research.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		In the waning moments that we have right now, tell me about the video, people, if they're interested in collection.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yes, thank you, George.
		If they're interested in coal fusion, I think they would profit very much by ordering our video, Cold Fusion, Fire from Water.
		It has Arthur C. Clarke on it making positive statements about coal fusion.
		It has many coal fusion scientists.
		It tells the basic story.
		It gives the critics opinions.
		It shows how silly they are, so forth and so on.
		$34.95, now.
		And at infinite-energy.com is the website.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		And you can, of course, just go to Art Bell's website and steer you right into it.
		And what you're doing there.
		Are you excited about this field?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		I'm very excited.
		I have to keep that excitement up, frankly, in view of the difficulties that this field has had.
		Let's face it, many of us.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		And you've had many.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		We've had many difficulties.
		There isn't huge funding for it.
		In fact, there's very little at all.
		But we struggle on.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, you stay with us, Dr. Eugene Malov.
		Fascinating.
		I'm learning something.
		You know, I think I got about a C in physics when I was in high school.
		Even though I loved it, I just, I don't know, I didn't go there all the time.
		But he'd be a great teacher, I'll tell you that.
		When we come back, we'll continue with phone calls and much more.
		I'm George Nori, and you're listening to Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Talk Radio 710 KCMO.
		Talk Radio 710 KCMO.
		And Robert has an opinion on everything.
		We also have to protect ourselves, too.
		And that's what people are scared.
		Doing all right.
		A little driving on a Saturday night.
		Come walk me.
		Gonna dance the dead way.
		Jenny will speak.
		Show a smile for the people you meet.
		On trouble and stride.
		I don't know the way you can ride me.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with George Norris on Premiere Radio Networks.
		To talk with George from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach George at area code 541-665-0520.
		And the wildcard line is open at area code 541-665-0521.
		International callers may access coast-to-coast AM at 1-800-893-0903.
		That's 1-800-893-0903.
		This is the Premier Radio Network.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		There is just so much to learn about science.
unidentified		So much.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I've always heard about cold fusion, fire from water.
		I didn't really understand how close we were until I saw the movie, The Saint, that Dr. Eugene Malov was a consultant in.
		And now I'm beginning to realize this is even closer than I ever imagined if only we could get some of these companies involved to get this thing out and start saving us some money.
		We'll be back.
		We'll take your calls on Coast2Coast AM.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Chase the M.O. Get a pen and paper ready.
		I'm going to tell you where to get some storable foods.
		We are at war.
		Several people are dead.
		The count keeps going up from those infected with anthrax.
		What would you do if suddenly there was another biological terrorist attack that prevented you from leaving your home for 30, 60, even 90 days?
		Do you have enough supplies?
unidentified		Food?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Water?
		I'm extremely comfortable with the storable food shipment I received from Ready Reserve.
		I didn't have the time to become an expert in storing food, so I trusted Ready Reserve's nearly 30 years experience in helping families like mine, and you should too.
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		Because you need to be able to feed your family no matter what disaster strikes and to be protected when something happens to the food supply in this country.
		Did you know the typical grocery store in this country is completely restocked every 72 hours?
		You've heard me say it before, and I'll say it again.
		You need to have a reserve of high-quality storable food in your home.
		Call Ready Reserve right now at 1-800-968-1344.
		That's 800-968-1344 or visit them at ReadyReserveFoods.com.
unidentified		You've heard Art Bell talk about technical remote viewing and how the military kept it a secret for 17 years.
		I'm Dane Spotts, CEO of SciTech, the company that ushered this classified technology out of military intel.
		SciTech is looking for qualified people to become skilled remote viewers.
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		KCMO.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I'm George Norrie with Dr. Eugene Malovich.
		Dr. Malovich, I guess to understand cold fusion, this infinite energy, we really don't need to have PhDs, do we?
		We lay people?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, to get the overall concept, you don't have to have a PhD.
		I hope we've made it clear the basic origin and the fuel and so forth and how powerful it can be and what it will do.
		But in order to understand or to speculate about how it works theoretically in the microcosm, how the interactions occur, which we're still trying to figure out.
		You know, the theorists are battling amongst themselves about exactly how it works, whether standard quantum mechanics will ever explain it.
		That's a question I have in mind.
		So these are complex matters having to do with new theories of how atoms interact with one another.
		You know, I'm not convinced at all, at all, that textbook physics, as taught at MIT, Harvard, or many other places, is right.
		In fact, I'm quite convinced it's wrong.
		Yes, it works up to a point.
		Einstein's theories of relativity have certain formulas in them that work, but it doesn't necessarily work in a particular situation.
		But it doesn't necessarily mean that the entire theory is the right theory of the universe and explains it all.
		In fact, I'm quite sure it doesn't.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		What advantage does the first country that practically uses this have over other countries?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		I don't honestly think that it will turn out to be restricted to one country or that one country will become dominant in any way.
		I think the energy process is too universal as far as coal fusion goes, let us say, so that no one is going to really capture it.
		I think it will spread like wildfire once the first products are introduced.
		And I think some of the initial companies that pioneer coal fusion will be quite happy to have a small share of the market rather than to be a monopoly situation like Microsoft is for typically for some types of software and operating systems.
		So I do think it will be universal, but it does require the key ingredient is the first products introduced to market.
		Now, many of your listeners may think, well, the first products in market will be some kind of a home heating unit or an electric generator or so forth.
		I don't think that's what's going to happen.
		I think the first product will be demonstration devices.
unidentified		You mean we don't even have those yet?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		not for sale.
		In other words, people have in their laboratories, this is the problem with cold fusion, people have in their laboratories working cells.
		There's no doubt about it.
		It's reported at conferences.
		But when someone wants to see one and see it themselves, the quick way, because they're tired of hearing all the arguments, they may be a technical person, they may be a businessman or woman or what have you, and they want to see it, okay?
		They want to prove it to themselves.
		They don't want anyone else to prove it.
		They've heard too many arguments back and forth.
		So if they have something to be purchased from some company, let's say they can afford whatever it is for that particular demonstration cell, and they see it working, I think the same thing will happen has happened with personal computers.
		It's not an exact analogy, but it's similar.
		The personal computer revolution was started when kits, little kits that did nothing, okay, other than demonstrate that an engineer could solder some chips together, provided in a kit, and make a working digital computer that he could put on his desk.
		And hundreds of those were sold.
		And the entrepreneurs in the early days, of the mid-70s, of the personal computer revolution, people like Bill Gates and the Apple people, that's how they got inspired.
		The same thing will occur, in my opinion, with Cold Fusion.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's go to some of the phones.
		Let's go west of the Rockies in Nevada, Alien Harvester on coast to coast.
		Hi there.
unidentified		Good.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Speak up.
unidentified		Okay.
		I'm kind of nervous.
		This is my first time being on the airport.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Oh, don't be nervous.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		It's a piece of peace.
unidentified		I'll scare them away.
unidentified		Peace.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Just yell into the old phone, Alien Harvester, and you'll be okay.
unidentified		All right.
		I wanted to talk about when I was in California, I seen, I would say it was UFO, and it came from one of the Air Force bases.
		And I know that my mom's boyfriend worked at one of the Air Force bases, and he showed me plans on how they used positive and negative ions to make.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		How these crafts used it?
unidentified		Yeah.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		That's fascinating.
unidentified		So I think maybe, you know, somebody up high is just trying to keep that information, you know, secret.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's always been talk of reverse engineering that we may have picked up stuff and we've been able to really leapfrog years ahead of other people because of that.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Eugene, I know you're a practical scientist, but do you ever dabble in this area?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		The UFO area?
		I'm very interested in it.
		I'm a good friend of Steve Greer.
		And my view is that the scientific establishment, again, has pulled off a gigantic hoax on reality by ignoring the fact that there are interesting residues of UFO phenomena.
		I mean, not every light in the sky that you can't explain is obviously an extraterrestrial craft, but it certainly should be studied and not ridiculed.
		And frankly, I am completely convinced that advanced civilizations using technologies that work on the ether, okay, as opposed to our conventional blindered physics, could come here very rapidly if they wish to and could flit around and come in and out.
		And so I see no problem in the possibility that some part of the UFO phenomenon is indeed alien civilizations.
		Why not?
unidentified		Do you think that plasma technology is part of that?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're throwing around some terms here, plasma technology.
		Plasma technology can be used in cold fusion.
		Plasma technology can be used in hot fusion.
unidentified		That's what I was heard.
unidentified		They were using plasma.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, you know, I don't know where this information comes from.
		All I can say is I respect people who study UFOs.
		I belong to a society called the Society for Scientific Exploration, and they have many fine lecturers who come in and present what, excuse me, is rather compelling evidence that visitations may be occurring, may have occurred.
		It's an open question.
		It's certainly not something that should be ridiculed.
		But what we see today in the contemporary scientific scene is complete ridicule and censoring of proper scientific questions.
		It is a question.
		Are they here?
		Can they travel here?
		And this is not of interest to the scientific establishment.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Thanks for the call, Mr. Alien Harvester.
		Let's now go to first-time caller, Tucson, Arizona.
		Mike, you're on Coast to Coast AM with Dr. Eugene Malov.
		Hello, Michael.
unidentified		Yes.
		Hello, Dr. Malov.
		I'm on my cell phone here, so I hope you can hear me okay.
		I can hear you low.
		Okay, well, I'm very impressed with you as a person and the amount of knowledge you have and your scientific insight.
		The main reason that I'm calling is that I have a tape in my possession, and it's about a self-generating, I don't know what the unit you could call it.
		It's called a hummingbird generator.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And it's based on some kind of magnet, and again, it's self-generating, something like you're talking about, but perhaps at a lesser level.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is something that is purveyed.
		If you're using the word hummingbird, my understanding is that a man by the name of Dennis Lee who is not carried through, in my opinion, I have not seen anything that he has purveyed as far as a free energy source that is testable.
		I went to one of his meetings in New Hampshire, Bedford, New Hampshire, when he came here.
		And he haranged for about four hours, but he gave no proofs that he really had anything.
		And then, to top it off, my understanding is this: he was exhibiting a technology that is owned by a good colleague of mine who is an inventor, whose name is Paul Pantone.
		He did not mention that Paul Pantone's technology of sort of an unusual plasma fuel source for fossil fuel devices like lawnmowers and so forth.
		He did not mention Paul's name, which was unethical in my opinion.
		So I am very, very dubious as to whether Mr. Dennis Lee, who puts all sorts of ads in national magazines and newspapers, whether he has anything at all.
		Some of the things that he showed, by the way, at these exhibits, the exhibit in New Hampshire at least, are standard things that are explained by normal physics, like dropping a magnet through a thick-walled copper pipe.
		And it goes down, it seems like it's virtually weightless as it goes down so very slowly.
		This is a very standard physics thing, and he just is a magician as far as I'm concerned.
		So really, I don't, when I hear the word hummingbird, I get the creeps.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		You know what, though?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		It's exciting to talk with you, and I can't wait to do it more again next hour because I have literally learned more in just a few hours, Dr. Maloff, talking with you than I have in any book.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you very much.
		I try my best to be even-keeled about things and to be open-minded.
		What else can we do?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Let's go to some more callers.
		Let's go to East of the Rockies, Youngstown, Ohio.
		Joe, welcome to Coast to Coast.
		Hi, Joseph.
unidentified		Hi, how are you?
		Good.
		You guys are all doing a wonderful show.
		I mean, you and Art and Mr. Paneth.
		And I'd like to ask Dr. Maliff about, well, first of all, before I ask him, I'm pretty well aware of Mr. Pantone's thing.
		He had a website on that.
		He told about how the oil companies added the additive into gasoline to change some type of a part of the cracking process.
		And when Edmund Pogue went to his grave, Mr. Pogue was the guy who invented the so-called vaporizer carburetor in 1937 that got 200 miles per gallon.
		And he went to his grave not knowing how and why his carburetor stopped working in 1979 completely.
		And Mr. Pantone told on his website exactly, you know, what they did do, which additive that was put in into it.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		To make this carburetor not work?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		To make the carburetor not work.
unidentified		To make it not work, yes.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Somebody sabotaged him, I guess, huh?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know about this.
unidentified		Basically, the oil companies couldn't let this thing out to the public.
unidentified		Also, Howard Johnson's magnetic motor, which I made toy models of that for my grandkids, that we'll be putting in one of his exhibitions for school, for a science fair project.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Have you made a Howard Johnson motor?
		Have you made a Howard?
		I know Howard Johnson's motor.
unidentified		I've made models of the Howard Johnson motors, the cheap, the easy linear models, but we're still working on the rotary ones.
unidentified		They're a little bit more of a challenge.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		You know, I'd love to see a, if you wouldn't mind, if you would send me an article or send me an actual linear Howard Johnson motor, I'd be happy to see it.
unidentified		I can see the magazine to have all that stuff in it.
		It gets a photocopy of it.
		Okay.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		well it's interesting howard johnson was a of magnet motor man and he actually No, no.
		It has nothing to do with that, Howard Johnson.
		He's actually still alive, I believe, in Virginia someplace, but he wants to be very quiet.
		But he did get patents, and he almost didn't get a patent, the United States patent, except he did exhibit a linear motor, they say, which means that a linear demonstration, should I say, whereby a magnet pulled a magnet into a tunnel.
		A magnet was pulled from a starting stop, from a stop, right into a little tunnel configuration, and then it shot out at the other end with excess energy.
		And that's amazing.
		You're not supposed to be able to do that with magnets.
unidentified		All right.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Thanks for the call, Joe.
		Appreciate it.
		Do you remember seeing a movie?
		Because I saw it when I was a kid.
		I talked about it a few hours ago.
		Right.
		It was a black and white movie about a scientist who invented a little pill that he dropped into water and turned it into fuel.
		And it ended where the guy disappeared and nobody ever found out what happened.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what movie that was.
		There was a movie from England called A Man in a White Suit.
		And I don't.
		It had something to do with an amazing material that was invented.
		I'm getting a little confused myself on old movies.
		I'm not really a devotee of those, but I'm sure there have been movies that have hinted at free energy in the past.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Let's go to the wildcard caller, Mount Rainier, Washington.
		Walter, you're on Coast to Coast AM with Dr. Eugene Malovs.
		Hi, Walter.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, I'd like to say, I think that most people don't realize that as soon as we have free energy, we'll feed the world overnight.
		I mean, we'll have heat.
		All you need is glass after that.
		A person would have their own greenhouse.
		They'd have four crops a year.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
unidentified		You could feed the whole world in a month.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Energy is the key.
		We don't realize very often.
		We think of it as just, okay, it's something you put in your car.
		It's something that comes through the wires for your house.
		But energy really is at the basis of all civilization.
		And it transforms everything.
		If you have enough, in other words, if it's free or inexhaustible and clean, you can do things like have agriculture in places where you normally couldn't have it.
		You can desalinate water very cheaply or almost for free, with the exception of the capital cost of the equipment and pumps and things like that.
		But if you don't have to pay for the energy, who is to stop us from pumping huge quantities of beneficial water into the Sahara Desert, as an example, making it bloom?
		And people could have craft that were, let us say, flying indefinitely around the Earth, and they could actually live on platforms high in the atmosphere.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		How many years do you think we are, realistically, from doing some of these things?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I mean, because they're marvelous, they're exciting, but are we going to see it in our lifetime?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		We might, and I hope we do.
		I think we will.
		I honestly think we will.
		But I'm, you know, the only thing that's holding it back, the thing that's clear is that these energies that we've been talking about are real.
		Coal fusion is real.
		Ether energy is real.
		At least as far as I've seen it and a few other people have seen it working in laboratories.
		And there are some other inventors out there who might have free energy sources themselves other than what, let us say, what Dr. Correa and company have in Canada.
		So these energies exist, and the theory supporting them exist.
		The thing that's missing is the wherewithal, usually financial, to go forward and not be blocked by various things that get in the way.
		There are many things that get in the way.
		We can argue all evening about what is getting in the way.
		I have my opinions, other people have their opinions.
		But all I can say is it's not nature that's preventing this.
		It is humanity.
		Human beings are various.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Is it selfish humanity?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Sometimes, yes indeed.
		Sometimes it's selfish humanity.
		Sometimes it's irrational humanity.
		Think about this.
		Let us say you have a free energy device today.
		What about you put that on the marketplace and it does other things and nasties like Osama bin Laden and company get their hands on it?
		What might they do with new physics?
		Well, that's important to think about that.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		That's one of the dangers you have to take.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		I'm willing to take the risk myself, but again, I do not know the full ramifications of the new physics that really does govern this universe.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		All right, stay with us.
		Let's do this again next hour.
		We'll take more phone calls.
		We'll continue with our very special interview with Dr. Eugene Malov as we talk about cold fusion, and he calls it fire from water.
		And when you think about it as an energy source, that's exactly what it is.
		Fire from water.
		And what I love about this show is you learn things on it.
		Not bad.
		I'm George Norrie.
		Stick around.
		Coast to coast, AM.
unidentified		Time after time, if you fall, I will catch you.
		Talk Radio 710 KCMO.
		Talk Radio 710 KCMO.
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		Whether it's a long-term stay or just for the day, you've never seen...
		...and you've never seen it.
		...and you've never seen it.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with George Nori on Premiere Radio Networks.
		To talk with George from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First time callers may reach George at area code 541-665-0520.
		And the wildcard line is open at area code 541-665-0521.
		Now, here's George Norring.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Hey, don't go anywhere because we've still got two hours of coast-to-coast AM.
		And I've got to tell you, we are literally going back to school, learning about some things in physics that a lot of us, hey, just didn't know about.
		It's exciting.
		My guest is Dr. Eugene Malov, and we are talking about cold fusion.
		We're going to also talk about the ether.
		And as I said before, not the kind that they put us to sleep with.
		His magazine Infinite Energy, back with more on Coast to Coast, A.M. KCMO.
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		So I said, okay, so I'm opening up this box.
		And somebody here at our station, based here in St. Louis, grabs the radio and starts running away with it.
		I practically had to tackle the guy to get it.
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		This is an amazing radio.
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		It's an AM-FM TV and weather radio.
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		That's very inexpensive for a radio like this.
		And the Seacream Company is now shipping this new CC Radio Plus, shipping it now.
		It's exactly the same great AM reception with a few added new features.
		And by the way, you've got to have this kind of radio if you're listening to Coast to Coast.
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george noory ▲ ● ▼		Hello and welcome back.
unidentified		Good morning.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I'm George Norrie, Coast to Coast AM with my guest, Dr. Eugene Malov, who is educating all of us about cold fusion, this exciting form of energy that, gosh, Dr. Malov, I hope one day we really do get it.
		I hope it's not a pipe dream of people.
		I hope somebody really puts it together.
		So here's my question to you before we go back to calls.
		What will it take to get this thing out to market?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, it can happen two ways.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		You could suddenly have some benefactor of great wealth come in and fund the struggling research organization.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Well, count me out on that part.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		That's one way.
unidentified		That's a possible way.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		I don't think that's going to happen.
		Some of the best benefactors are really good people, and they've already given a lot of money.
		But the field, let's face it, needs a lot more resources than it's probably going to get that way.
		So the next best way is for something the equivalent of the demonstration, personal computer route.
		When you trigger the field with excitement more than it's gotten out, right now we have lots of paper studies and lectures and videotapes and scientific papers and conferences.
		But we don't have something that you can physically hand somebody and prove to them that it's working.
		Now our laboratory is an example.
		I'll toot our horn a little bit.
		We've worked with a scientist on the West Coast, Silicon Valley area.
		His name is Roger Stringham.
		And he developed an acoustic reactor that is something that has heavy water in it, but the excess energy is triggered by high-frequency sound beaming against a metal target.
		There are many ways, as I've said, to generate cold fusion.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		So high is the frequency?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		40,000 cycles.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Can a human being hear that?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		No.
		It's in the ultrasonic range.
		The same type of sound that comes into these ultrasonic cleaners, you know, the things that clean jewelry and stuff like that.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		So forth.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you can just see them waving a little bit.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Right, but you have to do it properly.
		So we've made a reactor based on his system.
		We are working with him.
		But we've developed it to the point now where we're nearing the ability to put it into a reliable system that we can sell as a demonstration.
		So something the size of your fist is an example.
		I'll give you a result that we had a few weeks ago.
		And we hope that we'll be able to keep results like that coming.
		We had about 19 watts of electrical power going into this reactor.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Not a lot, right?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Not a lot.
		But 28 watts was coming out.
		So we had almost 9 watts of free energy.
		And it would have continued for a long time.
		We just were very interested in testing it in other modes, so we kind of stopped that particular experiment.
		The interesting thing about that experiment is it's measured very, very carefully.
		The error on the signal, okay, that 9 watts of free energy.
		The error on that signal was only about 2 tenths of a watt.
		So in other words, we could take it to the bank, so to speak.
		We fully believe that we have that excess energy, and we believe that it will be possible to make that or a similar level emerge on demand.
		We've had about three very successful runs in a row, and it's looking like we could take this and put it into a device that would be good for a laboratory use.
		Oh, I hope so.
		Because, look, it's not going to drive your car.
		It's not going to power your house.
		But what it is going to do is it's going to say, look, if you've been wondering about coal fusion, if you want to know, if you want to get into this field, if you're an industrialist Or you're a high-tech this, that, or the other person, then you need to know whether it's real, and you may want to experiment with it yourself.
		Here is the prototype kit, as it were, that you could use.
		It won't be cheap, I'm sure, but you know, because the components are not cheap.
		And the labor-intensive thing that we've had to go through to even get to this stage, over a year of work on this, to make sure that we were not fooling ourselves.
		You know, unlike the critics of this field who did slapdash work, okay, in the beginning, and they threw the baby out with the bathwater, and they created a terrible disaster for the United States and the world on this subject.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		You're not too happy with them, are you?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		No, not at all.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Terrible things happen.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		We can do that if you want.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		That's heavy watergate, they call it.
		But this process, and we're not the only ones who could potentially put such a demonstration device on the market.
		Dr. Case might be able to do that.
		Dr. Swartz in Massachusetts might be able to do that.
		Another company in New Jersey that doesn't like to use the word coal fusion at all, Dr. Randall Mills, he has a company called Blacklight Power.
		They are getting energy out of water, hydrogen, much more energy out than you would expect if it were just chemical energy.
		He has his own theory and so forth.
		It remains to be seen whether he will produce a demonstration device or a real utilitarian device.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's go to some of the calls, okay?
		As we promised.
		Wild card caller out there in New York, New York, I feel for you today.
		Mike, welcome to Coast to Coast.
		Hi, Michael.
unidentified		Hi, how are you?
		I am really very much interested listening to you.
		And what I hear is really fascinating.
		I just hope that one day we could get this going because it really saves the humanity.
		I would agree with that.
		It is a dream.
		It's a dream that I pray to God it could be real.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		It is real.
unidentified		And by listening to you, I could see Israel.
		Now, one or two questions that I want to add.
		First of all, I want to thank you for giving this kind of information.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you, Mark.
unidentified		And praising.
		And it makes me very excited, and I just hope that as soon as we can get these things running, it's better for us in any form or shape you can imagine.
		Now, my question is companies like Japan and Israel and China, these countries really, they need energy.
		So I'm just curious why these people do not, I mean, they should be working on this idea.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me say this.
		First of all, Japan is working on it.
		They're not putting as much money into it as they should be, but they definitely have companies like Mitsubishi.
		We've had some of their work featured in our magazine.
		Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, their advanced technology laboratory, is working on it.
		Many of the university professors have funds that they can use to work on it.
		Honda is working on it.
		So they are working on it.
		Now in China, Dr. XZ Li, who's on our sort of advisory board of our magazine, he's a physicist at Tsinghua University in Beijing.
		He has organized the ninth international coal fusion conference, which is going to occur in May.
		And I'm sure the Chinese officials and the Chinese scientists, both in and not so in the coal fusion field, will be there listening.
		Let's talk about Israel.
		Israel has several scientists in various universities who do subscribe to our magazine, Infinite Energy.
		I don't know exactly what they're doing.
		Another very interesting Israel connection, I would say, is with ether energy.
		In other words, there was a time when Mr. Uri Sudak, who used to be the chief technology officer of Israel Aircraft Industries, he recommended to Israel Aircraft Industries that they further investigate the work of the Canadian group that I referred to earlier, Apollo and Alexander Correa.
		And if you read his letter of support on their website, etherometry.com, that's A-E-T-H-E-R-O-M-E-T-R-Y, you will see that he advised them to take it seriously.
		They didn't.
		They preferred at the time, early 90s, I believe it was, to put their resources elsewhere.
		Of all countries that should have taken this very seriously, it wasn't a government policy issue.
		It was simply a bureaucratic mistake that they preferred to put their money in research in another area.
		And so Mr. Sudak left Israel Aircraft Industries for that and other reasons.
		Now finds himself in the United States, and he is working with the Correas to see how this technology might go forward.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Okay, thanks, Mike.
		Appreciate your call.
		We'll go to some more callers.
		Let's go to west of the Rockies, Phoenix, Arizona, caller Steve.
		You're on coast to coast.
		Hi, Stephen.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Thanks.
unidentified		Wherever you may be.
		I got two questions.
		I'll just listen on the air for the answers.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Adolf Hitler's nuclear program was slowed down by several years because of contamination.
unidentified		Has anyone considered on getting a pure sample for maybe the space station?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		From the what station?
unidentified		From the International Space Station, since it's rumored that you can purify simple materials to a much finer quality than you can on the Earth.
unidentified		And my second question is, is dark matter and things like this modern physics means of backpedaling to find ether?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		This is the way it is.
		First of all, on the business of the potential Nazi atomic bomb, I didn't know much about their problems with purification.
		I mean, what was the problem to be able to do?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		They came close, though, didn't they?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they did.
		To come up with an atomic bomb, a fission bomb, you need concentrated U-235 or plutonium.
		And probably they had problems doing just that.
		That was not an easy thing to do.
		So they failed, fortunately.
		And then with the question of going to the space station for purity of materials, I don't think that that's necessary.
		There are various things that can be done in space.
		But it seems to me that cold fusion is close enough to working with things that we've already seen.
		I mean, the acoustic-triggered cold fusion works like a charm so far.
		It just takes some doing and skill to demonstrate it clearly.
		Dr. Case's process is pretty good.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		It sounds like a lot of people are working on it.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yes, there are.
		There are a lot of good minds.
		But, you know, the tragedy of it is there should have been a lot more.
		When you put a lot of brain power in, particularly when the United States does, it's a very go-getter, you know, proactive country on technology, I would say.
		So if there had been many other minds working on it in industry and universities, I think it would be far more ahead today.
		Of course, so would ether energy if Einstein had done the right thing in 1941.
		Now, what was the second question?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Dark matter.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Dark matter.
		Yeah, it's funny, the modern physicists are convinced that there was a Big Bang.
		I'm not.
		In fact, I'm quite sure there was no such thing as a Big Bang.
unidentified		Oh, really?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		You may be one of the only ones who does not.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
		There are many, many scientists who do not believe that the Big Bang is the proper cosmology.
		One of the most famous cosmologists who believed in the steady state theory recently died, Sir Fred Hoyle in England.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		If you believe that, I may keep you next hour just to talk about the Big Bang theory all by itself.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, but the Big Bang cosmologists today say the universe is accelerating, that it's expanding faster and faster, and that they invent all these fantasies today, quintessence.
		Well, they have dark matter for a long time, and they keep changing the brew to make the data that they think they see work.
		And what they do, though, is they ignore some of the most fundamental evidence that suggests that, A, the cosmic background radiation can be explained by other means.
		That was the thing that supposedly made the Big Bang win.
		And more importantly, even, there are quasars that are seen near galaxies.
		The astronomer Halton ARP has seen them.
		He's photographed them.
		And he's brought them to the attention of the astronomy community.
		The problem with those quasars is that they have what is called very high redshift.
		So in other words, they, by normal understandings, should be very, very, very, very far away.
		And the galaxy right between them has a low redshift, and it should be much closer.
		He says they're attached to one another.
		They're obviously attached to one another by statistics and many other things.
		And therefore, there's some problem with interpreting the redshift as a distance measure.
		And if that's true, if he's correct, and I'm quite sure he is correct, and others like him are correct, the Big Bang is not real.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		It's the Big Fizzle.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		It's a big fizzle.
		This doesn't surprise me at all because, after all, a scientific establishment that dumps on cold fusion the way this one did, that buys fictions for over 80 years, such as special relativity, which has so many problems,
		in addition to the fact that it does have efficacy and goodness in some of its formulas do describe some things that are happening, but it's not the full picture.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've always wondered, Dr. Malov, about the Big Bang.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		They always say that something exploded.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, space-time, they call it.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		How could something explode if it wasn't there yet?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, you've got, in essence, a part of the problem.
		I actually believe the universe is probably infinitely old, didn't have a beginning, won't have an end.
		Galaxies are coming into existence.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe that there may be more than one universe?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		No, I think there's probably just one universe.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Just one.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		We have one universe.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Some people believe that there are many.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, with space-time, this four-dimensional space-time, they create all kinds of fictions.
		I think they're fictions.
		They're fantasies.
		They're talked about a lot at universities today.
		It's like counting angels on the head of a pin, which they did in the medieval ages.
		Basically, they say we have baby universes butting off from ours.
		I fell into that trap myself.
		I used to believe the Big Bang cosmology.
		I don't anymore.
		They say we have alternate universes.
		They say all sorts of weird fictions in order to jazz up their academic life.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe in God?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Do I believe in God?
		Depends on how you define God.
		I would say I'm a religious man, like Einstein was.
		I'd say I believe more in the philosophy of Spinoza, which basically is the sort of theory of, you might say, pantheism.
		In other words, the universe as an intelligence that is all-powerful, okay?
		And it's, I don't see...
		I do worry about my transgressions, but I don't conceive of a wrathful intelligence beyond the universe transgressions.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Do you have transgressions, you?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I have transgressions.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Gee, I haven't treated my dog well, and I haven't been as kind as I need to be to some of my friends.
unidentified		Who knows?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, I'll tell you what, Doctor.
		it's still a fascinating program with you, and we'll continue this.
		There are still many more concepts I'd like to talk with you.
		And Pasha, I've always wondered about the Big Bang because if it was supposed to be the beginning, well, then what the heck exploded?
		How many of you have asked yourself that question?
		I bet a lot of you have.
		What exploded?
		Always, always as Baffley.
		I'm George Norrie.
		Stick around.
		We'll continue with more.
		I'm Coast Acars Day.
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		I'm George Norrie.
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		We'll continue our discussion with Dr. Eugene Milov as we talk about this very fascinating field of infinite energy.
		And by the way, we're going to tell you about his video, where you can get it.
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george noory ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back.
		I'm George Norrie with my guest, Dr. Eugene Malov.
		We're talking about all kinds of infinite energy.
		And of course, we're taking your phone calls.
		And let's go right back to the callers.
		East of the Rockies, Oakdale, Nebraska.
		Sharon, thank you for holding here on Coast to Coast.
		Hi, Sharon.
unidentified		Hi, how are you this morning?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing wonderful.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Good.
unidentified		It's a real privilege to be talking to you and your guest.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
unidentified		Dr. Malib, you are so interesting.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Sharon.
unidentified		I have been listening since practically the beginning of the show tonight.
		I missed the first part of it.
		But you had mentioned earlier in the program about the fact of the regulator or generator.
		Now, you're speaking to a layman here, so bear with me.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Me too, Sharon.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I'm in the same boat you are.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		We're talking about coal fusion now, perhaps?
unidentified		Right.
		Right.
		The coal fusion.
		And you said that the units would probably come out when they ever get in production.
		Around $10,000.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, $10,000 or less.
		I would say that would be the rate.
		That would be my guess.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		What I am kind of wondering about on that order is once we get those and they're powered by water, how much gallons of water is it going to take?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		You missed that in the beginning then.
		You said the amount of there is in one gallon of water enough of the form of water called heavy water such that when you fuse it with cold fusion to make helium, that reaction has already been seen, you get 300 gallons energy equivalent of gasoline from that one gallon of ordinary water.
		So a tiny amount of even that one gallon to make that 300 gallons of gasoline energy equivalent is used, namely 16,700.
		Only a tiny amount of the water is ever used.
		So there's not going to be lots of water delivery trucks and so forth.
		It's going to be...
unidentified		Or is that going to be?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yes, all water on Earth has approximately the same proportion of heavy water in it.
		Okay?
		And typically, we're not going to have big volumes of water used for this energy source.
		It's going to, the heavy hydrogen part, which is the key ingredient, it appears, is going to be preloaded into something.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Who preloads it, Gene?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, the manufacturer.
		You might have to replace a cartridge or so, but, you know, from time to time, of a catalyst or some other component.
		We don't know the exact design features that a coal fusion reactor would ultimately use, but the cost of the fuel, this is the key.
		The cost of the fuel will be essentially zero.
		I can't emphasize that enough.
		Listen to this.
		In one cubic kilometer of ocean, smaller than a cubic mile, that's a tiny part of all the oceans in the world.
		There is enough heavy water in just that little tiny part of the planet's water that when you fuse it to helium in a cold fusion reaction, you get more energy than all the known oil reserves.
		So a tiny part of the ocean used will give us all the energy we need.
		No water will be wasted, and the fuel cost essentially is zero because the energy that's produced in the coal fusion reaction will be used to extract, in effect, more heavy hydrogen or heavy water from the ordinary oil.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		See, that's what bothers me, though, Dr. Insharon.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		The fact that it's not going to cost anything.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		That bothers you?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		If there's no profit, you know they're not going to do it.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
unidentified		No, no, no.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		You're making a mistake, the computer, if I made No, no, no.
		Listen, make the analogy again.
		The computer that sits on your desk today, the personal computer, it's doing millions and millions of calculations per second.
		Okay?
		You're not paying for those calculations.
		No one comes in with a meter and says, oh, you made so many multiplications to do the various things that computers do to you.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but somebody made the money selling me the computer.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And they're going to make plenty of money selling you the power supply, too.
		Okay?
		The coal fusion device is definitely going to cost something.
		And it's going to be a huge industry to make more and more and more of these, just like there is to buy computers.
		But when you consider the power that a computer gives you today, virtually free information over the internet, as you well know, compared to what it would cost years ago, and you couldn't even get it then.
		Okay?
		That's what we're talking about.
		We have virtually, not exactly an age of free information, but it's almost free today compared to what it would have cost you years ago if you could get it at all.
		So in the future, we're going to have free energy where the cost of energy is virtually nothing compared to what it was before.
		But more to the point, most of us can afford our fuel bills.
		We don't like it, but we can afford them.
		All right?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I was going to get you up for about 50 bucks tonight after that.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but you know, the thing we're more concerned about is the hazard of fuel, of the hazard of depending on Saudi Arabia, as an example, or the Gulf region of the world as our main source of energy here in the United States.
		That's the scary thing.
		And the pollution of the environment.
		Okay?
		Whether or not there is a global warming or a threat of global warming, there will be no global threat of warming if we have fuels that do not liberate carbon.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Well, I agree with that.
		Let's just hope that somebody's got the guts to do this.
		Let's go to the wildcard caller, British Columbia.
		Claudia, welcome to coast to coast.
		Hello, Claudia.
unidentified		Good morning, George.
		Dr. Maloff.
		Dr. Maloff.
		Yes, Claudia.
		The comment that you made about Einstein's theory of relativity working in some instances and other applications not.
		That's correct.
		Yeah, that really put me, that rang a bell with something that I've just read recently by Peter Uspensky.
		And Uspensky, he said that they were unnecessarily paradoxical, and once physics frees itself of those paradoxes, then it will be on the right path.
		And I'm just wondering, No, I'm struggling through his books, and I'm absolutely loving them.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		What kind of a writer is he?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		I apologize for.
unidentified		Peter Uspensky?
unidentified		Yes?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, I plead guilty to that, yes.
unidentified		Oh, he was an abstract mathematician, a Russian.
		And he wrote, How do you know this stuff, Clark?
		Well, a mother.
		She gave me a dog-eared copy of Tertium Organum, and it's just awesome.
		I would say, mainly he's really into metaphysics.
		I see.
		And, well, because you're not familiar now, I can't really ask my question because.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, you can.
unidentified		But anyway.
unidentified		Well, I'm just wondering, because his books are so old, if his physics still stands up by today's standards.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Uspensky?
unidentified		Uspensky, yeah.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, I don't know his exact physics.
		All I can tell you is this, that we took a terribly wrong detour with Einstein's relativity theory.
		And this isn't coming about by prejudice of any kind against Einstein per se.
		In fact, I rather like some of Einstein's sentiments.
		But his physics is wrong.
		It postulates that he made two postulates.
		Number one, the speed of light is constant for all observers, and the other one, that there was a relativity principle, which he took actually from someone else by the name of Henri Poincaré and so forth.
		To make a long story short, a lot of his formulas that came out of those two postulates, like in geometry, you have postulates, and then you get derivative, you derive things from them.
		A lot of these derivatives, like E equals mc square and certain other things, something that resembles time dilation and what have you, they seem to work by describing certain experiments, okay?
		And they work very accurately in describing those experiments.
		But the math fools you into thinking that the whole theory is correct.
		And what this gave us is the abolition of the ether.
		The ether was the most important thing of all in the 19th century, okay?
		and it was most important that in the twentieth century we get to fully understand exactly what the ether was Yeah, by the way.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I want to know about this ether.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		This ether was an invisible.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		You want to know about it.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Sure, it was an invisible essence, as it were, the best way of putting it, substance of some kind that didn't appear to have inertial properties.
		It wasn't massy, so to speak.
		And it penetrated everything, and it was in everything.
		That was the idea, and light could go through it.
		They had various vague ways of describing things.
		It was an experiment done in 1887, the Michelson-Morley experiment, and physicists in the 20th century, following Einstein, believed that that experiment by Michelson-Morley disproved the ether.
		Michelson went to his grave in the 1920s, I believe, still believing in the ether, but the relativity people said there was no ether.
		And this was a gigantic mistake that led to our not understanding the ether.
		We're only beginning to understand it now thanks to the work of people like Wilhelm Reich in the 1940s and 50s.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		And you're going to teach me about it now.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		And more recently, yes.
		And more recently, the Correa is in Canada and Harold Asten in England and many other people who speculate about it.
		We will find out eventually what the real theory of the ether is.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's go to some more calls.
		First time caller, Boston, Massachusetts.
		Harvey, welcome to Coast to Coast.
		Good morning, Harvey.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		Harvey, I'm just outside of Boston in Quincy, Massachusetts.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Harvey.
unidentified		Hi there.
unidentified		It's wonderful to hear you.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Good.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad you're not an MIT physicist.
unidentified		No, no, I'm just a working stiff.
		Your conversations definitely expand your mind if you really think about the things you talk about.
		I appreciate it.
		In 19...
		Oh, about 20 years ago, I invented an ocean-powered generator that produced huge amounts of amperage as compared to solar power or...
		No, no.
		Wave energy doesn't produce huge amounts of amperage.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well how do you?
unidentified		Because the wave energy is the lap of the wave, which is just like a little paddle.
		Sure.
		My invention, it's the actual, it's the weight of the ocean, the differential from high tide to low tide.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		You take the weight of the ocean, and I got it.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		From high to low tide, of course.
unidentified		And it's a patent.
		It's a U.S. patent.
		And by taking the differential, you, just briefly, if you take a pie plate, but multiply it times 100,000, the size of a football field or a tennis court, and you put that pie plate on the water at low tide, and you'll allow the tide to come up.
		Sure.
		And when that pipe lifts...
		Right.
		At the stroke of high tide, you allow the pie plate to become awash in the water.
		So now it's sitting in the water like a boat.
		And you hold it in place as the tide goes out.
		You hold it in place with a stanchion or a chair cables or whatever.
		So now the potential energy is the weight of the water in the pi plate.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		You're using the tides.
unidentified		Correct.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		You found a way to use the tides to energy.
unidentified		Right.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Generate energy.
unidentified		Right.
		Unlimited energy.
		You don't need fossil fuel.
		Well, not exactly.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		No, it is very, very large.
unidentified		It's very large.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		What you're talking about is very large.
		In fact, tidal power has been speculated to be used, for example, in the Bay of Fundy up in Canada, where, I think that's Canada, where you, maybe it's Maine.
		No, it's Canada, I think.
		And on the eastern coast.
		And this Bay of Fundy has huge tides, right?
		And if you dam it up, and you, you know, so you catch the tide when it's in there, close it up, and then let the water fall down like a dam, so to speak, that's how you get energy.
		One way or the other, whether your device is easy to use on lower heads of tide or who knows.
		But yes, there is a lot of tidal energy, but you need a lot of coast, probably, for what you're trying to do to make it work.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, how come someone like Harvey couldn't take that idea and make a small fortune?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think it's, I don't know the full story of Harvey's experience with this invention, but whenever you have a new invention, let's say it works like his does, I'm sure his thing probably works.
		It sounds reasonable.
		Use on A principle that we all understand, and there's no debate about the tides that can be used for energy.
		But to upset the apple cart, the existing structure, okay, of how we get electricity is something else.
		You've got to find someone to put venture money in to, let's say, have a project, and then you'd have to have government approval to use this coast or that coast.
		So you'd have a lot of problems.
		I'm sure Harvey ran into those problems.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's go to west of the Rockies, Coos Bay, Oregon.
		Jack, you're on coast to coast.
		Good morning, Jack.
unidentified		Hello, George.
		I have been on this wear waves for many years.
		My first time I've talked to you.
		How are you doing?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing wonderful.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Yeah, Mr. Mellov.
		I know I'm our Dr. Mellov.
		I'm familiar with you.
		I've read some of your tomes.
		But anyway, yeah, you're right.
		The thing is, you go up to Ketchup and you're 18-foot tides.
		Anyway, are you familiar with a man named, he's a doctor, I'm not sure.
		But anyway, Wayne Green.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		Yeah, Wayne Wayne.
unidentified		I talked to him personally.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		He's got some interesting theories.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Wayne Green is a rather strange man.
		We had a bad experience with him, unfortunately, some years ago where we did plop our magazine.
		Our initial magazine was called Cold Fusion.
		I was the editor-in-chief, and I knew nothing about Wayne Green.
unidentified		Well, I don't know anything about him either.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		That's not important.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		I don't think he does much of anything these days.
unidentified		Okay, anyway, what I wanted to really discuss with you just briefly is that are you familiar with its company, I think it's called earlier.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		That's part of this Dennis Lee.
unidentified		Yeah, well, I think Dennis Lee is just a front for it all.
		And the thing is, I put up about $12, I think it was.
		And they apparently, what they're saying they're going to do is to go ahead and they're going to produce a 30-kilowatt generator.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but this is nonsense.
unidentified		I don't know whether it is or not, but I'll tell you what, I finally, it took me a little effort, but I actually talked to one of their representatives and I got to the company.
unidentified		What a nasty group of people.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Why?
unidentified		Okay, anyway, but the thing is, they were going to, they had something called, I think you mentioned it, the hummingbird.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		The hummingbird, right?
unidentified		Yeah, I don't know if that's the generator.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		They were going to put 100 of them around the world, and they were going to have 1.6 million witnesses.
unidentified		So you got it.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		All kinds of crazy things.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Another venture failed, huh?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		No, no, but it was completely based on a fiction, namely that Dennis Lee and his group actually have the wherewithal to make anything like that.
		They don't, apparently.
		And he certainly doesn't have one.
		If he had one, he should show a report, a technical report.
		He doesn't have to sell one yet.
		I'm not objecting on that basis.
		But if he has a device that he claims is going to generate free energy, and it is possible to do this, I know, because I've seen it in real devices that I've personally tested, okay?
		But if he has one, at least he should report some kind of numbers from it, or have someone report numbers from it.
		And that's it.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		But is this going to be one of those things, Dean, where people will just pop out of nowhere and say, we've got this now, we've been waiting on it, and now we're ready to go.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Is it going to come out that way?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, there is going to be a time, I predict, where a shock like that is going to happen.
		A real company is going to come out with a new energy.
		We call them new energy devices.
		Devices that rely on a source of energy that heretofore physicists did not agree existed.
		The physicists do not agree that coal energy exists.
		They do not agree that ether energy exists.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		As of right now, they still deny it.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Oh, of course they're denying it.
		That's the whole point.
		They're in complete denial, and they're arrogant SOBs.
		Okay, these guys at MIT in particular were the worst imaginable.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Don't hold back at all.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Just tell me how you feel, all right?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		They're being paid to do white-collar academic welfare.
		This is what it is.
		You know, the hot fusion program has been going on for 50 years now, and it's over $15 billion, and they have not produced anything except physics experiments.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Well, next hour, I'm going to find out, and I hope you will too, a little bit more about ether science and technology.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Just what is that that Dr. Malov has been talking about?
unidentified		Ether.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		And again, it's not the stuff that they put us to sleep with.
		This is spelled A-E-T-H-E-R.
		Ether.
		And we'll continue to take your phone calls only on coast to coast.
		A.M. Don't go away.
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		Oh.
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		Black fell, but business owners, stop a minute.
		I know that's hard.
		You're in business, but just stop and think about your business furniture.
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		Now is the talk.
		From somewhere out there.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with George Nori on Premier Radio Networks.
		To talk with George from East of the Rockies, dial 1-800-825-5033.
		West of the Rockies, 1-800-618-8255.
		First time callers may talk with George at area code 541-665-0520.
		And the wildcard line is open at area code 541-665-0521.
		Now, here again, George Norris.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely, let's go for it.
		I'm George Norris.
		You're listening in at the Coast to Coast AM.
		I'm standing for Art Bell.
		I'll be here Tuesday and Wednesday as well as Art Continues to nurse that store back.
		And by the way, if you want any information about the Art Bell website, if you want to email me, all you got to do is go to www.artbell.com.
		In my particular case, you can look under program menu, click that on, click on past programs, because this will be easier for you.
		Scroll down, and there I'll be.
		It's George at Georgenori.com.
		And if you find it, I don't have to spell it for you right now.
		We're going to continue our discussion with Dr. Eugene Malov.
		We're going to talk about ether this time.
		And yes, we're still taking your phone calls.
		But I want to find out just what this all is.
		So stick around.
		Final hour, coast to coast a.m.
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		I'm Dane Spots, CEO of SciTech, the company that ushered this classified technology out of military intel.
		SciTech is looking for qualified people to become skilled remote viewers.
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		KCMO.
		Okay, Dr. Eugene Malov.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		What is ether?
		What is it?
		Is it a thing?
		Is it stuff?
		What is it?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, it turns out that the ether is the most significant part of the universe.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		And we have just, as it were, rediscovered the universe.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		All right, and let's go through the universe with you talking as loudly as you can this afternoon.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		We have just rediscovered the universe because the ether is the largest fraction, apparently, of the universe.
		Now, this is not to confuse it with what modern cosmologists are talking about, or shall I say, establishment cosmologists, who are saying that there's a special kind of dark matter that is either dark energy that's accelerating the universe, retarding the universe, or whatever.
		These are fantasies that they have come up with.
		What I'm talking about are devices now and experiments described on the etherometry.com website that prove conclusively that there is an ether.
		Now this ether is not a simple matter to get the full physics of.
		It requires in-depth building up of a theoretical framework to describe it.
		Just as we have to say, right now, the way physicists view the universe is this.
		There's a vacuum, space-time, and there's matter.
		Okay?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		All right.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I'm with you.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Matter, little atoms, little subatomic particles, banging around in a vacuum.
		That is the concept that you must have in contemporary physics.
		Furthermore, with the Big Bang theory in contemporary physics, all of this, everything, the vacuum, the matter, everything at one time about 15 or 20 billion years ago came out of nothing.
		It emerged from a point in space-time, a singularity, as they say.
		In other words, space and time, you thought space was one thing in your life, and you thought time was another thing.
		But since, and, you know, the common person feels that.
		But since we've had relativity and physics of the 20th century, we've had this, what I consider now to be a fiction, namely that there is something called space-time that can actually compress itself, Or was compressed at one time to a tiny point.
		Now, it seems rather mind-boggling that that's what people believe.
		And I at one point did believe the Big Bang myself, that all of space-time, this four-dimensional space-time, could emerge out of nothing and generate, as it were, all matter in this vacuum of space-time.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I never believed the Big Bang anyway.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Of course not.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
		You'll have it easier then.
		Okay?
		Imagine now that instead of space-time, which is what relativistic physics gives you, you have instead an infinite, enduring universe filled with a primordial or enduring substance that's complex, that has certain qualities to it that we must learn to understand.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Does it have order?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		It's called the ether.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Okay, does it have order to it?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Is that so?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it appears to have order.
		It has motion.
		It is dynamic within itself.
		And above all, there are simple experiments.
		This is the most beautiful aspect about it, which is why I'm so excited about the website of the Correas, that is the etherometry website.
		It's exciting because there are actual experiments that can be done with rather simple apparatus, and they describe them very clearly with electroscopes, which you can find in physics laboratories.
		These are little things that have static charge that make the leaves, little gold leaves that they usually have, spread apart, or even things as simple as thermometers, and I've done some of those experiments myself, where you can make measurements in your own laboratory, they need to be done carefully, to convince you through a variety of experiments that there is an ether.
		Now, what really convinced me, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that there is an ether, is that at the Correa's laboratory, I witnessed a small motor in the several watt range working with no input fuel.
		In other words, even a cold fusion reactor would require some kind of fuel, right?
		Hydrogen.
		These devices appear, as I say, they do not appear to violate the conservation of energy.
		They don't, okay?
		They are getting their energy from the ether.
		And the ether is not just a fluid, as the 19th century physicists thought.
		It's not just an invisible fluid pervading all space that allows light to go through it.
		That's not what it is.
		It appears to have charge in it.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		How many scientists, what percent, subscribe to this theory?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		The ether theory?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		A few hundred on Earth.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Maybe there are some thousands.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		That's it.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		And remember, at one time, Einstein was the only person who believed in relativity.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		And look what happened with relativity.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		And it's wrong.
		Okay.
		Now, how many scientists believe cold fusion?
		Well, thousands, I would say.
		Hundreds and hundreds who are working on it.
		Now, in science, of course, it doesn't matter who is in the majority.
		Scientific truth is not determined by majority rule.
		Science is determined.
		Scientific truth is determined by what really is there in nature.
		And sometimes it's hard to convince an establishment which has one concept, such as the Big Bang and no ether, that there is an ether.
		But when you see a motor running by itself and evidently using parts of the ether to operate, okay, to make itself work, I can't think of anything else that would be making it work.
		It certainly wasn't the reception of radio waves that was making this motor work, then you've got to throw out the idea that there is no ether.
		There is an ether.
		And this ether is very important.
		If you read my testimonial of what I saw at the Correa Laboratory and others, you will know that there is a motor that has some kind of connection with some of the biological effects that we've wondered about.
		You know about alternative health care, right?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		You ready for that?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		You know, laying on of hands, acupuncture, things of the sort.
		They cannot be explained by normal understandings of physics, and I think the ether physics will explain them.
		That's my guess.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Okay, we'll pick it up.
		We'll go to the wild card caller, first of all, Lucas Valley, California.
		Rick, good morning.
		You are now on Coast to Coast A.M. Hello, Rick.
unidentified		Good morning, George.
		I have an answer to a puzzlement you seem to have come up against.
		This shyster, hookster, he purported this hoax on people, and he would go from town to town dropping the little white tablets and putting water from simple garden oils into his gas tank.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		This was that movie I was talking about, right?
unidentified		Right.
		And it's based on fact.
		He was going from town to town, and he was getting investors to invest in his new engine that only ran on water and these two simple pills.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And he allowed them to inspect the car.
		They couldn't tear it apart or anything.
		And he allowed them to put it on a hoist, look all around the car.
		They couldn't touch it.
		They could raise the hood and check everything out, the ignition and whatnot.
		And they could not figure out how in the world this fellow could get this car to run on water by simply adding two little pills to the gas tank.
		They even went to MIT and they couldn't figure it out.
		And it turns out that the two little pills that he dropped into the gas tank was, well, were composed of carbide.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Carbide?
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		When dropped in water, it reacts with the water and forms acetylene gas.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Well, why'd you call him a huckster, though, if it worked?
unidentified		Well, the reason is that if you know anything about the oxyacetylene torch, what it does, it cuts metal.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And it just eats up engines.
unidentified		And he would take and tear that engine down almost every night, rebuild it because it was eating the pistons and the rings and the valves.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so that's where the fraud came in.
unidentified		That's where the fraud came in, and that's how he collected his money.
unidentified		That's how he earned his money, and he went from town to town so they couldn't catch him.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Interesting.
unidentified		And when he learned his money, he disappeared into the woodwork.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		When did this happen?
unidentified		Pardon?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		When did this happen, and what was his name?
unidentified		The late 30s, early 40s, as I recall.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		It'd be an interesting thing to get a story on that.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		It was a great movie.
unidentified		But that's, yeah, they let you hanging, though, and they never explained how he did it.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		The movie was based on this real event?
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		They were looking at the water, trying to see what he might have done to the water to try to get it to burn.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		We wrote a story about a fellow in India a few years ago who claimed to be able to have a...
george noory ▲ ● ▼		A weed, a weed, right.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		And was said to be making fuel.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		And it was found out that he was slipping real fuel in through a hollow spoon.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Well, at any rate, I hope that Richard answers.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		You're the first person to answer this riddle for me in 20 years.
unidentified		Oh, my goodness.
		Well, he was quite innovative and quite clever in the way he comprised it.
		He hid the lines that went up into the engine, and he fed the saddling gas in through beneath the carburetors and into the combustion chamber.
		And the engine ran for a while, of course, but after a while it would just eat itself up.
		And he spent most of his time rebuilding the engine.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		That's an amazing story.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Thanks for the call, Rick.
unidentified		You're quite welcome.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Appreciate your input into the program.
		First-time caller out there in California, Bill.
		You're on coast to coast A.M. Good morning.
unidentified		Program, and good morning, Doctor.
		I have been curious now about a concept in science that basically talks about the existence of humankind justifying the existence of the universe.
		I guess it's known as the anthropic principle.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, the anthropic principle.
unidentified		Okay, and of course, that's counterintuitive to everything I can possibly get my hands on.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, there are various versions of the anthropic principle, but.
unidentified		And, yeah, I was wondering, too, you know, does your ether concept, does that fit in as a kind of fuel to this or a template?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would have to say that the ether helps in a very major way to give rise to life in the universe.
		Therefore, I tend to believe now, as I did before believe, that it was likely that wherever there were suitable planets for life to begin, to evolve, and the process of evolution does occur, but how that evolution occurs is another question.
		We have to, that's another topic.
		But I do believe that the ether facilitates the origin of life.
		And that's a complex story, and I'm not truly the expert on it.
		I think the Correas have delved into that a lot and may in the future be writing about that topic.
		It's a more amazing story than you can imagine.
		We've gone, you know, there was an experiment in the 1950s.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		You're fading a little bit on me, Gene.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		There was an amazing experiment in the 1950s.
		Is that better?
		Yes.
		Okay.
		In which it was called the Uri Miller experiment, in which Uri Miller experiment, in which they took chemicals and used sparks in these gases and water and so forth to make primitive molecules that could later, one would think, evolve to create living cells, which then might perhaps further evolve in other ways.
		It turns out there are some ways of doing that same type of experiment that Wilhelm Reich did in the 30s that may well be working.
		In other words, it may be possible to create primitive life forms in a much simpler way than had previously been thought.
		And I think that will ultimately be shown to be the case.
		But let us see.
		Let's take a wait-and-see attitude about that particular matter.
unidentified		Okay, well, thank you very much.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you, Bill.
		Appreciate you being on the program.
		You know, the theory that you subscribe to about the ether.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		The ether, right.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		How old is the theory, or did it just come about during, let's say, the Einsteinian period?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		It came about, actually, in ancient Greek times.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		That long ago?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yes, there was a Greek philosopher by the name of, I may be confusing which one, the Coraias have written about him, but I read about him myself independently.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Anaximander, I believe his name was.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you've got to keep speaking up on me.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Anaximander in ancient Greece thought of the idea that there was some fine substance between the atoms in the universe.
		And later on, that theory in the modern scientific era came when people needed something for light waves to go through.
		Remember, there was a big debate starting with Newton, Isaac Newton, in the 17th century as to whether light was particles or waves.
		And Huygens, I believe that's the pronunciation, the Dutch scientists, believed it was wave action.
		And of course, if you have a wave, you need something to wave in.
		And so every scientist in the 19th century believed that electromagnetic radiation, light, radio waves that were later discovered and so forth, was part of light, had to have an ether, A-E-T-H-E-R, to go through.
		They all believed this.
		If you pick up any 19th century physics book, you will hear talk of the ether.
		In fact, you will hear that written about in many early 20th century textbooks.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Might you be able to travel through space through this?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		In other words, the Earth and the Sun and many other things would go through this ether.
		They had no trouble with that.
		The ether clearly could not be very massive.
		In other words, it couldn't have inertial mass to it that would stop things going through it.
		It penetrated them.
		That was the general idea.
		Now it turns out that that idea, which was dismissed when Einstein came up with his theory of relativity in 1905, his theory of relativity, by the way, was not accepted by the way.
		It was only accepted, or began to be strongly accepted, about the year 1919, when an eclipse of the sun appeared to confirm, as I say appeared to confirm some of his predictions.
		It turned out that it didn't confirm his predictions.
		But in any event, ether went out the window at that point.
		And relativity physics, space-time, took over.
		And we have been paid for that mistake.
		It was a big mistake.
		It was a lucky guess that Einstein made, that his postulates led to the formulas that did seem to describe certain things like E equals Mc squared and many other things that could be pointed to today by the physicists who believe in relativity.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Why is it, though, that you have these physicists, and I understand you've got to agree and you don't agree.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Right.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		But why is it that they seem to be on the far spectrum of each other?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I mean, there's no middle ground with these people.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, it actually has turned into a religion.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		There's actually a, I would call it scientism today.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		The religion of science.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		The religion of science.
		No, science is wonderful, but scientism is a religion that turns what they think they know into the gospel truth that can't change.
		That's the religion of scientism.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, stay with us.
		We've still got a half hour left on coast to coast, and we'll go back.
		We'll take more phone callers as we probe, dig, and try to find out a few more answers about this infinite energy, just what it all means to all of us.
		And gosh, it sure would be nice one day, one day, if some group just got it done without fighting, without squabbling, without doing anything.
		Wouldn't it?
		I'd like that.
		I'm George Norrie.
		You're listening exclusively to Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Talk Radio 710 KCMO.
		Talk Radio 710 KCMO.
		The only place in Kansas City for entertaining and informative talk radio in the morning is on Talk Radio 710 KCMO with Hickman and Doyle 5 till 9.
		Party Shot Talk.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Israel takes the key.
unidentified		Party Shot Talk.
		Party Shot Talk.
		This is Coach to Coach A.M. with George Nori on Premier Radio Networks.
		To talk with George from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First time callers may reach George at area code 541-665-0520.
		And the wildcard line is open at area code 541-665-0521.
		Now, here's George Norris.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		So if you want to get more information about Infinite Energy, all you have to do is go to Art Bell's website.
unidentified		That's all.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Just go to www.artbell.com, look under today's programs, and there it all is.
		There's a web address for Dr. Eugene Malov, everything you need to know.
		You can just dial it right up.
		But we'll be back in just a moment on Coast to Coast AM and talk more about infinite energy.
unidentified		JCMO.
		We're back with Cable Talk, the call-in show where people talk about their problems with the cable company.
		Our next caller is Barry.
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		$9 price, programming and packages subject to change without notice.
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		Then you're gonna have to make me tell you where I am and who I'm with.
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		JCMO.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Eugene Malov, my guest.
		Dr. Malov, are we competitive with other think tanks around the world in terms of physicists and people like that?
		Or are we losing it in our universities?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think many universities are just out to lunch as far as physics goes.
unidentified		Really?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		I mean, oh, yes, absolutely.
		What's prevailing in the universities today is groupthink.
		In other words, follow the leader.
		They teach things by rote.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		The Pied Piper of university, huh?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Okay, my own university that I came out of, MIT, possibly is one of the worst offenders on the matter of frontier science.
		No one is going to be allowed there to have a chance to really go into coal fusion.
		They nearly denied tenure to one professor who had the audacity to speculate about the theory of coal fusion.
		When that came out, and I was still there at the time, at the news office, he was nearly crucified.
		And to this day, no one is discussing coal fusion there of any sort.
		So coal fusion, which is a real discovery and which should have been worked on at MIT, is not being worked on at MIT.
		They get government grants of tens of millions of dollars to work on this ludicrous program known as Hot Fusion.
		They have a lot of zombies working there on this zombie.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		These are your colleagues, Jason.
		These are your colleagues.
		You call them zombies?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yes, they are zombies because they have mental blinders on to the easy way of doing it, which is demonstrated by peer-reviewed literature if they would only look at the literature.
		But the professors at MIT are not pointing to that literature, not believing in that literature, not doing a damn thing about it.
		So what the heck good is the place?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Let's go back to more callers.
		First-time caller out there in Seal Beach, California.
		Jim, good morning.
		Welcome to Coast to Coast.
		Hi, Jim.
unidentified		Morning, Dr. Hayler and George.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Very interesting subjects.
unidentified		On these two pills being dropped into water inside an engine.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, carbide.
unidentified		One of my favorite programs on television is called One Step Beyond.
		Normally it's a half-hour program, but in this case, they have just, I mean, which is all in one subject, but in this case, it's just the first 15 minutes.
		The second 15 minutes, they talk about stones falling out of a sky from Chico, which is authenticated, and the San Francisco Chronicle.
		But anyway, could I have your email address so I can tell you how you can get more information on this, and then I'll tell you what the story is on One Step Beyond?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Okay, why don't you spit out that email address?
		Well, I'll tell you what.
		Just go to his website as well as Art Bell's.
		But his is infinite-energy.com.
		Okay?
		Infinite-energy.com.
		And now tell me your story.
unidentified		where did he go he disappeared i have a copy of it someplace on video but uh took place in Yeah, go ahead.
		It took place in the 1920s, judging by the cars which were driven at that time.
		And I guess it was a vice president or some federal official who drove up, and this man comes up to him, very well dressed, and he says, excuse me for interrupting you.
		You know, he pulled up in front of the White House or wherever it was.
		He says, excuse me for interrupting you, but I just had to get your attention.
		And he proceeds to empty all the gasoline out of the gas tank and takes a garden holes and fills it up with water and drops two pills in it.
		And the security guards, of course, are kind of shook up about the sort of man he was with.
		But anyway, to make a long story short, they put they developed, put together an engine in a laboratory, and under totally controlled conditions, they drop these two pills into the water.
		First, they test the water and make sure there's nothing in it.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		This is my movie again.
unidentified		Yeah, well, but to continue, they excuse this gentleman, so the vice president, whoever, or whoever it was, can consult with one or two of the scientists there.
		And they come out about four minutes later, and the man's disappeared.
		He was going to sell it to them for, I forget how much, $10,000 or $100,000, I can't remember.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		And you sell it on One Step Beyond.
unidentified		Yes, One Step Beyond.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		That's the movie.
		That's the movie indeed.
		Thanks, Jim.
unidentified		Appreciate it.
unidentified		You're welcome.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Let's go out east of the Rockies, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina.
		Mike, thank you for holding.
		You are on coast to coast.
		Hi, Michael.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Good morning.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		What is phenomenal, just more or less a comment morning, although I've researched quite a bit with the coal fusion, and there does seem to be some medium there.
		And what is baffling to me that there is no project Manhattan style to research any of this at all.
		And we're going to need to get off our behinds within the Next 50 years, do some real scientific head-banging to get to the bottom of some of these theories.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, we do need heads to roll, I'd say that.
unidentified		But also, I mean, we're living in a day and age where these guys, I believe, in Boston, across the nation, with French Pride Greece.
		And there's a multitude of things that are out there that are, in my mind, being totally quashed by entities within our government and probably without of our government.
		But we need to come to some consensus at some point that it'd be more advantageous for us to go ahead and get off of this fossil fuel addiction as soon as possible.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		I totally agree with it, and I'm working almost round the clock, you might say, for that very purpose.
unidentified		Well, I wish you all the luck, and hopefully, at some point here in the near future, these theories will come to some validative.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		I think they will, my good friend.
unidentified		Well, good night, and y'all have a good week.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Wild card caller out there, Kansas City Mo, Stephen.
		You are on coast to coast.
		Hello, Steve.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Mm-hmm.
		Well, I have a question for the doctor, and that is that the only sure known fusion in the universe is in a star.
		And why do you say that?
		Well, am I wrong?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		You are.
		Fusion has occurred.
		First of all, there is some fusion going on even in hot fusion reactors on Earth that they've attempted to do, and in the thermonuclear fusion bombs.
unidentified		Okay, let me restate the statement would be that the only controlled fusion is in a star.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		No, I'll let it come through.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I bet he shoots that one down, too.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Not after 1989 and what Pons and Fleischmann did.
		There are now small fusion reactors that are producing cold fusion.
		Fusion of heavy hydrogen to helium, which has been detected and measured, with no corresponding deadly radiation.
		That's happening.
		We have a cell in our laboratory that we've worked on for a year that we put in acoustic energy into heavy water, which has heavy hydrogen in it, and we get out a rather significant excess heat signal.
		One experiment, we had eight solid excess heat watts coming out, 20 watts going in, 28 or so going out, 19 in, 28 out, and very high signal-to-noise ratio, no doubt about it.
		We didn't measure helium.
		We aren't equipped for it, but I bet you dollars to donuts, if we sampled a gas, and we eventually will in experiments, we'd find helium.
		Probably.
unidentified		Well, I think what you're saying is that you're producing more energy than you put in.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		We are definitely doing that.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well said.
unidentified		Well, that basically proves the point that I was unaware of.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, and this energy lasts.
unidentified		What's holding you back then?
unidentified		What is that?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Oh, nothing too much, actually.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		It's taken a year of cash, a little support maybe, huh?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		A little support.
		You know, some of us like to eat, and we like to pay the rent.
		Our magazine, by the way, which is $29.95, does not support itself.
unidentified		That's off the subject, but a couple nights ago, you guys, this is way off the subject, but you had a show where you talked about a conspiracy that we never landed people on the moon.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		We've had those programs.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		I doubt that very much.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I think we went.
		I think we went.
		I don't think so.
		No, I know we went.
		You know, I've talked to Edgar Mitchell.
		I believe him.
		He's an astronaut.
		He was there.
		Let's go to some more callers if we can.
		First-time caller out there, also out there in Kansas City.
		Kevin, you're on coast to coast.
		Good morning, Kevin.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		Physics question.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		If something gets warmer, it expands, because once electrons and neutrons are running around more and it gets colder, it shrinks.
unidentified		Is that right?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're saying something in a very general sense, but materials very often do shrink when they get colder.
unidentified		Okay, so if you have a certain amount of mass that takes up a certain volume at a certain temperature, when it gets colder, it would shrink.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Solid typically will do that, yes.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		Why would it weigh more?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		What?
unidentified		Why would it weigh more?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Who says it weighs more?
unidentified		Well, gasoline, a haul gasoline, a gasoline tanker truck.
		Oh, yeah.
		And a gallon of gasoline, when it gets colder, although the net gallons changes, the volume changes, temperature changes, that gallon that you put in, if you lower the temperature on it, it will actually weigh more.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, I think what's happening, if I may suggest this, you're putting more mass into your tank.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		You've got a big tanker truck there?
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's what he's got.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, when it's colder, I suppose you get slight reduction in the total volume occupied by the liquid.
		So therefore, you can, by the liquid of a given mass.
		So therefore, you can put in more of that liquid.
		It's denser, and therefore you have more mass in your tank.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, because I don't think his whole tank weighs more once he weighs it once and then weighs it again.
		I think what you're saying is absolutely true.
		I think if he took some of it out, it would compress a little bit more if it got colder.
		You put more in to even it out.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		If the truck weighs more, if on some weighing scale, if that's what the effect is, I wouldn't have imagined it would be that measurable, but I would assume that the fuel is just denser at that cold temperature.
		Therefore, there's more mass or weight, as we say, with the pull of gravity.
		So therefore, I can imagine a tanker truck having more actual gasoline In it by mass in colder weather.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		I wouldn't have imagined it would be that measurable, though, on a, let's say, a truck weighing station.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't think it would either.
		West of the Rockies out there in California, Michael, welcome to Coast to Coast.
		You are with Dr. Maloff.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		Hello, and good morning.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I have a question regarding energy capabilities of an advanced civilization.
		Sure, huh?
		And basically, I don't know if your guest has heard about the theory, but there's a theory that states there are three levels of energy that could be harnessed from the universe.
		And one being the energy of an atom, which we've already mastered, I believe so.
		And number two would be the energy of a star.
		And ultimately, number three would be the energy of the solar system.
		I want to know if you've ever heard of a galaxy.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've heard that.
		The different civilizations that were classed in some of the speculations about the search for advanced extraterrestrial civilizations by microwave radio search.
		They classified them as type 1, type 2, type 3.
		I forgot what type 3 was.
		Type 3, I think, had command of the energy of an entire galaxy.
unidentified		Yeah, galaxy, that would be, yeah, that's right.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		We'd be what, a type 1?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		We're type 0, probably.
unidentified		The first would be the atom, I heard.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Whatever, right.
		We're just primitives here.
		But when we get hold of coal fusion or ether technology, which we're in the process of doing, it seems, we will very rapidly, I think, become a much more powerful civilization.
		Hopefully a wiser one.
		But that doesn't necessarily follow, does it?
unidentified		All right, well, thanks for luck.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Okay, thanks for your call.
		Let's go to our final caller, if we can, Dr. East of the Rockies, Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
		Ruth, you're on coast.
		Hello, Ruthie.
unidentified		I've been fascinated with the subject ever since I came across a statement in a book that says, since the time of Tesla, governments have not allowed the knowledge of zero-point to come forth because at this time, Tesla wanted to give free, unlimited energy to the world, which he knew would come forth from zero-point technology.
		But they said at that time, J.P. Morgan, who owned the copper mines, did not want free electricity to come forth.
		And so they decided to pass it to the copper wires.
		And so I think just recently they showed that these machines, once running, could give off more electricity than it would take to run them.
		They showed that batteries that never needed charging.
		And these scientists showed that how an ordinary gasoline motor could be converted to run on ordinary water with more power than gas.
		And they put together a little video.
		And they said that the, let's see who.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		The search for free energy, the race to zero point.
unidentified		Yes.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		It's not a bad video.
		It describes a lot of different inventors, some of them who really do have something and some who don't have something, probably.
		And it's kind of a nice video to kind of give you a variety of understanding of some of these things.
		We happen to sell that video, too, by the way.
		But yeah, you know, Tesla was far ahead of his time, as time will show, future will show.
		He was not given the credit that he should have been given.
		Many people fall into that category, unfortunately.
		They're brilliant inventors, ahead of their time, abused by various ideas stolen sometimes.
		Stolen, yes.
		Marconi was not the inventor of radio.
		He was.
		The Supreme Court eventually adjudicated that.
		But, you know, to this day, kids in school are not taught that Tesla invented the radio.
		So basically, you know, they still say Marconi did.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		What this exercise today has shown me, though, that there are a lot of people out there that are very interested in what you're working on.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		I wish every one of them subscribed.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, all they got to do is go to the website, arts website, and pop up the programs and then get your information.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		I hope so.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Off they go.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		How did you get Scuffty to be your spokesperson on your video?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, we asked him, and he was happy, and we paid him.
		They do take.
		He was only one-seventh what Leonard Nimoy would have charged.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		So there was no contest.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Leonard is pretty costly.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yes, indeed.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Seems like a nice guy.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he's a wonderful guy, and he might have done a really good job, too.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		But we were very happy with Scotty.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		He did a good job for you, too.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		It was a good video.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		It was a nice video.
		We have spent a lot of time on it and went all over the world.
		And fortunately, we had a benefactor who gave us funds, literally gave us funds for that particular production.
		And he's a blessed individual for having done that.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		You would think schools would use the video as part of their educational tools.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		You would, but frankly, you know, we tried to get this on national television.
		That was our objective.
		We have a 56-minute version that was cut for PBS stations.
		Sure.
		It has been shown by a few PBS stations.
		They did it for free.
		We finally got fed up trying to have someone pay us for it.
		But, you know, we couldn't get it on the Discovery Channel, which was we thought an ideal venue.
		And we couldn't get it on TLC.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		All right.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		How optimistic are you that we will have this kind of energy?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		I'm 100% optimistic.
		I'm completely optimistic that it will happen.
		I can't tell you when.
		I never thought it would take 13 years of my life to get even to the stage where we're at now with cold fusion.
		But I have a feeling that it's not going to go more than a few more years, if that.
		But let us see.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		All right, very good.
		Dr. Malov, I appreciate you spending all this time with me.
		Thank you.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much, George.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I'm George Norrie, and you, of course, are listening to Coast to Coast AM.
		Artsback is still acting up, so for the next two more shows, for the next two more shows, I'll be guest hosting, bringing you, of course, open lines, exclusive, thought-provoking interviews as we scan the world, as we scan the universe, to bring you the latest, the cutting edge of Talk Radio, right here on Coast to Coast.
		I'm George Norrie.
		Have a safe day, everyone.
unidentified		Talk Radio 710 KCMO.
		Talk Radio 710 KCMO.
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		The Federal Reserve Board has just lowered interest rates.
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