Dr. Eugene Mallove, editor of Infinite Energy Magazine, reveals cold fusion—announced in 1989 by Pons and Fleischmann—produces vast energy (300 gallons of gasoline per gallon of heavy water) without radiation, yet academia dismissed it due to vested interests in hot fusion. Japan, Italy, Russia, and China advance research, while U.S. skepticism persists despite proof-of-concept devices like Roger Stringham’s 9-watt ultrasonic reactor. Commercialization could revolutionize energy, agriculture, and space travel within years, but human obstacles—fear, bureaucracy, and profit motives—delay progress, mirroring Tesla’s suppressed zero-point energy work. [Automatically generated summary]
Hi, this is Art Bell, and I've got some great news, so please listen very carefully.
The Wall Street Journal has just reported, and I'm quoting, if history is any indicator, gold is set to rally in a big way, end quote.
Now, that's because in the last three decades, investors have seen a direct correlation between interest rate cuts and rising gold prices with increases ranging anywhere from 30 to over 400 percent.
Now, Greenspan has cut the interest rate seven times, and many of today's leading brokerage houses, including Merrill Lynch, Solomon, and Goldman Sachs, are buying gold themselves.
In fact, this year, while the average stock fund is down 14%, gold, on the other hand, is already up over 7%.
That's why I need you to call Lear Financial right now and request their gold profit guide and their new audio seminar demonstrating how interest rate cuts are setting the stage for the next gold rally.
This material is a $29 value, but mention my name, Art Bell.
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We're going to talk about some of the stories of the day.
Then we'll go to your phone calls this hour.
Well, recovery efforts are continuing right now in the night in Queens, New York, where that American Airlines jetliner crashed with 260 people on board.
The plane, as you probably know by now, was en route to the Dominican Republic when it broke apart minutes after takeoff.
It crashed into the Rockaway Beach area, engulfing 12 to 14 homes in flames.
At least six people reported missing on the ground.
American Airlines Flight 587, which is a European-made Airbus A300, which I want you to know has had a very Good safety track record.
It left Kennedy Airport 74 minutes late because of security checks put in place after the tragic World Trade Center attack.
Now, authorities have found both of the plane's black boxes: the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice.
I talked to a training expert who used to train for TWA, which is now part of the major airlines of American, and he tells me that by finding the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder, that they will be able to pinpoint, hopefully, very soon, what the probable cause of this tragedy was.
Witnesses reported hearing an explosion and seeing an engine, a large chunk of a wing and other debris falling off the plane as it came down.
This expert that I talked to today, because I asked him, I says, isn't it unusual that the fin of the plane would be some 10 blocks, it was in the water.
They found the fin in the water.
And the plane, of course, crashed into the homes.
And I said, isn't that unusual that it would be 10 blocks away?
Why shouldn't it be with the crash site?
And he said, no, it's not.
It probably incurred some heavy stress.
So we'll just keep monitoring that situation.
And again, this was a foreign-made plane, which had really a very good track record.
But I looked at some statistics of major plane crashes in the last 20 years.
And this is what I find to be unusual.
Major plane crashes in the last 20 years.
Of the major plane crashes, most of them have occurred outside of the United States in other countries.
But we've had five of them.
And I'm not including the tragic 9-11 disaster.
Prior to that, and including this one today, we've had five major crashes in the last 20 years in the United States.
What I find to be so ironic, four of them originated from JFK Airport.
Four out of five major crashes in this country in the last 20 years all came out of JFK.
Nothing from O'Hare, nothing from LAX in Los Angeles.
Four out of five at JFK.
And the one fifth one, the major crash that occurred in this country, that was the one that occurred down there in Miami.
If you remember that, it was a Miami to Atlanta ValueJet flight crash that crashed into the Florida Everglades.
110 people tragically killed in that situation.
That was in 1996, May 11th.
May 11th, 1996.
So I just, I found that statistic to be very ironic, that four of the five major crashes would occur right out of JFK.
A little bit on the war front, Taliban military forces, Taliban military forces, have deserted the Afghan capital of Kabul after a series of stunning military victories by opposition forces over the past four days.
Now sporadic small arms fire could be heard from the hills overlooking the city, but the streets were empty of the Taliban soldiers who had been there hours earlier.
All Taliban military compounds were abandoned.
Now maybe, just maybe, we can find out where Osama bin Laden is.
You know, they had a foreign reporter interviewed him, and this reporter was blindfolded and taken five hours.
Now, this is not what we call United States highway hours, okay?
He's not going 60 miles an hour.
So let's figure they're doing maybe 15 miles an hour, okay, plodding along.
He says it took him five hours from the spot he was picked up to where he got to where Osama bin Laden was in a dusty hut.
So maybe if they were traveling 15 miles an hour, 75 miles out, just draw a circle right around there, maybe we could find a pretty good idea where Osama bin Laden could be.
It's very possible.
Very possible.
One of the stories that I found very interesting occurring in Masr al-Sharif, which was the first city that the Northern Alliance toppled, men there lined up at their barber shops to have their Taliban-mandated beards shaved off.
They wanted them off quickly.
And if we don't want anybody to think we look like Taliban, get them off.
And women discarded the all-encompassing veils and music banned by the Taliban could be heard coming from shops.
Now, how about that?
The anthrax scare on Capitol Hill continues over the weekend with the discovery of only trace amounts of that deadly bacteria in the offices of 10 senators in the Hart Senate building.
It's the same building where anthrax contaminated letter was opened on October 15th.
On the space front, an American astronaut, Russian cosmonaut, were outside the International Space Station.
They were hooking up cables, testing a crane.
Maybe they were listening to coast to coast.
I don't know, but it's the first spacewalk for the station commander Frank Culberson and almost certainly his last.
His four-month mission is nearing an end up there, and they say if he ever returns to space, it will be in his old shuttle piloting job.
Also on the space front, a robotic mission to Pluto received a boost from Congress.
It's unusual because Congress normally takes money away.
Well, in this particular case, Congress is supporting something that NASA and the Bush administration really don't have a lot of support for.
But in essence, it's to create a probe that will go out into the far regions where Pluto is and do a little exploratory mission there.
And they say they've got To get there, they've got to launch it soon because if they miss the window out there by Pluto, there will be too much frozen atmosphere and it won't thaw out again for two centuries.
That's a long time.
And in Morristown, Tennessee, very unusual story.
Police in Tennessee say an apparent prank gone wrong has cost a man his life.
Police say that a Morristown man found spray-painted orange from his head to his knees, died from inhaling paint fumes.
And now they are ruling his death a homicide.
Well, those are some of the stories of the day.
I'm George Norrie, and you're listening to Coast to Coast.
Let's now go to the open line phone calls if we can.
We'll pick it up by going to First Time Caller on the Road in Arkansas.
Amy, you're on Coast to Coast.
Hello, Amy.
Amy?
Now, we're on a little delay, so Amy, you've got to be with us here.
Now, I'm a new listener, so I'm, you know, I'm new to this.
You had a conversation with a man here not too long ago, and he was saying that there is also people, there's a guy, I guess they're guys in like a black coat and a black hat.
Well, Art Bell's the one who did the interview with the shadow people, but what we are talking about is if you look out of the corner of your eye every once in a while, you'll get a glimpse of what you think is somebody, a person.
And when you turn real quickly, they're there, and then you turn away, they're gone very fast.
And they call them the shadow people.
I don't know.
Amy, maybe they live in another dimension.
Who knows?
But it's a fascinating theory.
I'll tell you that.
Let's go to some other colors.
Let's go.
West of the Rockies, Charles, where are you on coast to coast?
Well, tell me a little bit about that, because next hour we are talking about free energy, and I want to see if yours is very similar to what we're going to be talking about next hour.
unidentified
Okay, it involves billions of diodes fabricated to face the same direction, and they rectify in the upper microwave region, so it turns heat into electricity.
It absorbs heat like a refrigerator, it makes electricity.
And you can absorb heat from anything, even the background heat of the planet, so you don't have to burn fuel to make the heat.
Well, George, you know, I, like everybody else, you know, I've been probably considering the matters that are going on in the world.
And, you know, I don't really have a lot of money to donate, but I'm an artist and a musician, and I was wondering if I could contribute a little bit in my own way by singing just a little bit of a song that I wrote about my cat to make everyone smile and maybe forget a little bit of their pain.
Seattle, we'll go to Lee, west of the Rockies on coast to coast.
Hello, Lee.
unidentified
Hello.
Your topic that's coming up, I'm not real sure.
I have an idea of what it's going to be on, but it's something that's always puzzled me.
Especially in Seattle, we've had things like where we have to pay, you know, on our car deals, you know, to get the toxins out of the air.
And there was a person that was going to stop that situation, and he had proved that it was now finished and it was being illegally collected and all this.
Plus, there was also people in the past who had these things that would replace our fuel, you know, you remember?
A little bit of news that I happened to hear with my ear to the ground today was that Fox News picked up a story out of down south in either Mississippi or somewhere that there was more sprayings of tugboats, and this story just never flew because of what happened.
Well, that occurred here in the St. Louis area, too.
unidentified
Yeah, okay.
And that's a big story because what's that about?
I mean, that's an odd thing.
Now, there was another bit of news I heard with my ear to the ground today, listening to the radio and TVs.
I don't know how many people saw it if they recorded it on their VCRs, but at the crash site, there was a fireman kneeling down or stooped down, looking into what appeared to be an engine in front of a gas station.
But let me tell you, investigators are all over the place.
And they're going to get to the bottom of this.
They're going to find out what happened, what brought this plane down.
And every expert I talk to say this one was a very tragic accident.
I'm George Norrie.
More of your open line phone calls just ahead on Coast to Coast.
unidentified
Talk Radio 710 KCMO.
There's nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do.
I guess the rain down...
If you're not listening, talk radio 710 KCMO.
Inside the sand, the strength of the touch is something inside the touch.
Inside of the touch, the sentence.
The money files to be covered and then to burst up.
Man, the sun again.
Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing To lie in the meadow and hear the grass sing To have all these things in our memories For all of them use them to come To fall on fire Yeah
Ride, ride like these stones Take this place, on this trip, just for me This is Coast to Coast AM with George Norton on Premier Radio Networks.
We talk with George from west of the Rockies, style 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First time callers may reach George at area code 541-665-0520.
And the wildcard line is open at area code 541-665-0521.
You know, as I was kind of peeking at the Art Bell website a couple days ago, I do that every day, as a matter of fact, I came across some of the books that Art has written, and you can order them right off his website.
And I did.
I have never had the book called The Art of Talk, and I ordered it.
It showed up yesterday, and I was like a kid ripping the package open.
It was almost like Christmas all Over again.
And what's so incredible is just reading the story of him and knowing that I'm filling in doing his show.
It was just, it was the most exciting thing that's ever happened to me.
This hour, we're going to continue with open lines.
And of course, next hour, not only are we going to talk about infinite free energy, we're going to find out where it went.
But get ready to make your calls because we've still got some exciting open lines for you.
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unidentified
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The vocabulary of the average person stops growing by age 25.
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And winter is always great, too, because the gold streaks run through the mountains, and it's just absolutely beautiful if you enjoy that kind of scenery.
They think it might be interfering with some of these planes?
unidentified
Yes, they were drawing comparisons, how it interferes with the electronic components on the planes and starts fires and overheats wires and so on and so forth.
And if anybody out there can look up this show, it was about two to three weeks ago on Discovery.
It is amazing the conclusions that are drawn by testing and by released transmission data from the military compared to the accidents that are happening out of JFK.
I wanted to comment on the fact that I don't really think that the Catholic Church is really going to give anything that's really true to life to of the Dead Sea Scrolls.
And that someone had snuck into the Vatican, and he was really fluent in like 12 to 20 languages, and he transcribed the Dead Sea Scrolls.
And if your listeners aren't aware of this scene, Gospel of Peace, and there's like a whole slew of books written by Edmund Borici.
I'm going to pronounce his name wrong, but Siskill.
All the scrolls have already been transcribed.
It was kind of interesting hearing what the guy said last night.
Well, I've been better, but I'm a little bit nauseated listening to all this media today by the 530 network news.
We're jumping on the bandwagon of political correctness to declare that this was an accident rather than terrorist sabotage, even before the investigation has even gotten underway.
But then, of course, I figured from the moment that this crash happened that we're going to get the verdict of an accident rather than sabotage, because there are certain people in this country who don't want to admit the fact that we've got terrorists running around in this country working as aircraft mechanics at airports who are in a position to do whatever's necessary to make a plane come apart in mid-air.
I have not heard anything either, other than those first reports that you did.
I would be very curious, though, to get your impression on crop circles.
You know, Linda Moulton Howe is a great reporter, and she has done some tremendous investigative work about crop circles.
I'd like your take on it.
Do you think these, what kind of phenomena do you think it is, or do you think it's all man-made?
unidentified
Well, I think it's interesting that Richard C. Hoagland has said that he thought it was the government's way of breaking the news.
I've been listening to those reports and actually just started listening to the show right around that time and have listened to it faithfully since and haven't heard any more, which is why I called.
And he sometimes goes down to Irecibo where they've got the big radio telescope.
And that apparently is where some of this occurred.
And he did say, though he is a skeptic of crop circles, he did say it was unusual that the crop circles in question were the same patterns of a signal that they had sent out a long, long time ago.
Now, he did admit, he said, you know, he did say, hey, this is entirely possible that somebody's got the signal here and they know how to decode it and stuff like that.
But even he admitted, though he doesn't believe, admitted that it was a little bizarre.
A little bizarre indeed.
Let's go out to Arkansas, east of the Rockies, in Van Buren, Arkansas.
I'm calling along the same order as your wildcard caller that was talking about the terrorism.
I'm not looking for a conspiracy theory, but I don't know if you heard the CEO of American Airlines, when he made his statement to the media this morning, he was going over the maintenance history of the plane.
The first thing he said was, this plane had level A maintenance November 11th.
Well, but some people had assumed that that meant yesterday.
unidentified
Yes.
That's what I am assuming, since he did not specify a year.
It had had level B maintenance, which is more intensive, in October.
And it was scheduled for a full overhaul this coming June or July.
It really is odd that he would have had, the plane would have had the level A maintenance yesterday and crash just, what, two to three minutes after taking off this morning.
The Airbus 300 is generally a very reliable plane.
There have not been a lot of plane crashes with that plane where an engine falls off and a tail fin falls off.
And if you agree with some of the reports where a part of a wing fell off, yet every expert I have talked to feels that this was indeed an accident.
I think the earlier caller was absolutely right and right on the button that, you know, the media really has a right to report on episodes as they occur, but they really have to run it right down the middle.
And it is, I think, irresponsible to come out right away and say, this is an accident or this is a terrorist attack when nobody knows.
And it's important for all of us to understand that when episodes occur like this, first of all, everybody's paranoid.
We're all paranoid about this.
And you look at the irony of the fact that this would happen two months to a day after 9-11.
There are just too many strange things that have happened.
One could assume, hey, something happened here.
Maybe it wasn't an accident.
But let's find out what happens first.
The problem, as I see it, is this tremendous distrust of government.
That no matter what they say, you're not going to believe them.
And that's sad.
It's sad that government can't convince us that whatever they say is accurate, is true.
And it's sad that you and I have to always think that maybe, just maybe, we're not getting the real picture.
Episodes like Roswell, and there are a lot of people who don't believe that Timothy McVeigh acted alone in Oklahoma City.
And there are a lot of people who are upset about the way we handled Waco.
When all these things occur, people tend to lose faith with government.
And that's really, to me, that's the sad part about it.
Hey, real quick, Kara, I think I might run out of time, but I agree with you fully on how the media portrays everything.
One thing that I don't hear, and I'm pretty upset about, is what's going on with the stimulus package about giving the corporations this rebate for their taxes that they've paid, billions and millions of dollars and sold supposedly to keep our economy going.
But if we look at what they had done with the airlines, with the billions that they got and laid off 94,000 people, I don't believe that we should be giving big corporations this kind of money for them just to pocket the money.
I'd like to know where we're getting all this money to give all these windfall tax breaks.
unidentified
Exactly.
Now, even if they do go and they upgrade or do whatever and people make cars or IBM or computers, the people wouldn't be able to afford it to buy anything.
Nobody's working, you know.
So I have a really hard time with what they've done.
I would want to see something, which the media is not talking about.
We're not getting any information, so they're supposedly working on it.
The same thing with getting security, federalizing security, that's not going to fix the problem.
I think Chrysler was down to like four bucks a share, maybe.
Something like that.
General Motors, though, I tell you what's encouraging is the automobile industry, they've got this 0% financing.
General Motors reported quarterly sales up 31% from a year ago.
That's pretty darn good when you can do that.
And I've got to tell you one thing, you know, coming from Detroit, which was my hometown, when I was a young lad, you've got to sell cars in this country in order to stimulate the economy.
And that's got to happen.
And I'm impressed with the fact that Americans decided to buy American-made products, American-made cars, because that was so important.
And if General Motors is indicative of the other automobile industries here in this country, then maybe, just maybe we're going to pull out of it.
It included a radio, which I'll talk to you about later, but I'm telling you, it also included a flashlight, and it wasn't a normal, ordinary flashlight.
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Has this ever happened to you?
You'll go and you'll grab that flashlight and, you know, it's always supposed to be ready when you need it.
And guess what?
It doesn't work.
So you rummage around through the house and you find some new batteries, you put it in there, and guess what?
It doesn't work.
And then maybe it's the bulb, right?
And you happen to have a bulb, right?
So you replace it.
Nope.
It doesn't work.
Triple whammy, nothing works.
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Pons was the head of the chemistry department at the University of Utah.
Martin Fleischman was a professor from the University of Southampton in England, world-famous electrochemist.
They basically said, look, at this press conference held at the University of Utah, we have a cell that includes water, a special kind of water called heavy water.
And they had two pieces of metal, one palladium, and the other platinum, and they ran a current through it.
They measured very carefully the current, because that's what electrochemists do.
It splits the water, and certain interesting reactions were happening in the palladium.
But the bottom line, that is one of the electrodes in this system, they said they had studied this system very carefully over a number of years.
They self-funded their research, paid about $100,000 to do that of their own money.
And they said, you know, we're getting more energy out than we're putting in by the electricity.
The heat energy that we're, not radiation, the heat energy we're getting out of the cell adds up, when we measure it carefully, to more energy than going in by electricity.
But going back to the original story, they did very careful bookkeeping on this heat process, and they found out that the amount of energy coming out was so large relative to what could possibly be explained by any kind of ordinary chemical reaction, they said, you know, this has to be nuclear.
And they made that clear in their paper that came out.
It was a complicated story how this all came about.
There was another university, Brigham Young, that was 45 miles away.
And due to some unfortunate aspects of how they, when they sought some funding from the Department of Energy, there was a review process, and the two groups got to know each other.
There was jealousy involved, and there were suspicions involved.
Professor Stephen Jones at Brigham Young University wanted to go out and disclose this whole discovery and his work, which was similar but not related to the heat that they were getting out.
And it was a bad scene.
So this forced the public disclosure about 18 months before Drs.
Pons and Fleischmann really wanted to go public.
So in other words, it was indeed a premature announcement because they really didn't want to announce it.
They felt it was nuclear.
Jones felt his setup, his cell, was a nuclear kind of thing, producing only neutrons, no heat.
Well, the university felt, the University of Utah felt its patent position would be jeopardized if they didn't make an announcement since Jones was going to blab anyway at the upcoming American Physical Society meeting.
But Pons and Fleischman made the claim that there was much more heat coming out that could be explained by a chemical reaction, and the bottom line is they were correct.
No matter what has happened since then to convince members of the public or anyone else that this is malarkey, the overwhelming scientific evidence that built up over the course of a few years and then now is 100% certain, in my view, just by looking at the evidence, you can tell that, and by observing certain cells, even some we have in our own laboratory here at this moment, in a different way than Pons and Fleischmann had.
Well, are you saying that you can actually, and of course you've got to have the apparatuses for it, but you can actually take water and get energy out of it?
There is zero doubt, and there has been no doubt at all since about 91, two years after the announcement.
And this is published in federal research.
People can go to our website and they can look up the several, I think I quoted about seven to ten, particular federal research references that are public, okay, and they were in a memo to the White House.
The White House did ask me, called me in Bowen Hampshire in early 2000, year 2000, submitted this memo.
It's 8,500 words.
It basically gives the overall message to the White House that they wanted.
8,500 words is maybe a lot, but the executive summary of 500 words basically says, Mr. President, you don't have to accept this or give funding for this or do anything but do just one thing.
Say you're interested in it and have it investigated.
What happened in 1989 was a tragedy and a travesty.
It was a kangaroo court.
22 so-called experts from academia were picked by the Department of Energy.
This was during the first Bush administration.
And the Clinton administration was no better, by the way.
You'd normally say that's ordinary water, but it has in it a tiny amount of heavy water.
All water has heavy water in it.
One 6700th, one over 6,700 approximately, that fraction of water is heavy water.
And it has that heavy hydrogen in it.
And when you fuse that hydrogen in cold fusion, you get helium.
And that helium, when you produce that, that's a non-toxic pollutant.
It's the same kind of, you wouldn't call it a pollutant.
It's a non-toxic product.
That helium is the same type of helium that you have in a kid's balloon.
So the process produces a product which is of no negative consequence.
And that amount of heavy water in that ordinary one gallon of gasoline, one gallon of water, pardon me, from your brook pond or ocean has enough heavy hydrogen in it such that when you fuse it to helium, you do get 300 gallons of gasoline energy equivalent in terms of heat, not radiation.
This country has been working on a major project to tame what were thought to be the central reactions that are occurring in the core of stars, our sun, for example.
And it's the same kind of reaction, generally speaking, that's in the hydrogen bomb, which of course is a very powerful weapon.
That's fusion, where you take light elements like hydrogen, fuse them together, and produce a heavier element such as helium.
And they haven't succeeded.
Of course, the hydrogen bomb is a success.
It works.
But taming it so that you can capture that kind of multi-million degree heat, a multi-million degree reaction in hot plasmas at hundreds of millions of degrees, and putting it in magnetic fields and so forth and so on, or shooting lasers at the various ways that they've tried in this high-energy approach, that has never produced a practical reactor.
It has produced lots of academic research, lots of billions of dollars of tax money, and it got nowhere and is getting nowhere.
And as they say in a joke, hot fusion is the energy of the future and always will be.
Well, we can go into details, but that's not important.
The main thing is that the chock troops against coal fusion that emerged early on in 1989 were in fact those vested academic interests that are interested in continuing this absurd white elephant program known as Hot Fusion.
Well, and I can see it, where you'll have that faction of people who, for their own agenda will be opposed to something that's new and novel and potentially profitable for somebody else.
Didn't I see something in the movie The Saint that is very similar to what you're talking about?
Yeah, the movie The Saint uses cold fusion as a theme.
I happened to have been the technical advisor to it to make sure that some of the ways they talked about cold fusion were reasonable.
It was a fictional story.
But based on a true energy source, most people coming to that movie or seeing The Saint would not realize that what they're seeing in that movie is based on a reality, not the exact details in it.
I mean, the very words that Elizabeth Hsu uttered, namely in a gallon of heavy water, again, that's the purified form, not just the gallon of ordinary water, but concentrated heavy water, you could drive a car 55 million miles.
That's less than a cubic mile of ocean, of course, six-tenths of a mile on edge, a big cube of our ocean.
And by the way, most of that water would not disappear or be dissociated in using it all up.
In just one cubic kilometer, there's enough coal fission energy to equal the energy of all known oil reserves on Earth.
That's free energy.
Now, this discovery has been made, made in the United States, and unfortunately, even though the evidence is now 100% certain that it is a real phenomenon and that helium can be produced, and that other forms of it are real as well, related to it.
It's a much more complex story than just the original discovery.
I had no idea how bigoted and outrageous so-called scientists could be.
I had no idea.
Now, many people will say, I have a colleague, Jed Rothwell, who's a friend of mine who's more in business than in science.
He said, well, of course, that's what did you expect would happen.
Well, maybe he was right.
In other words, this outrageous treatment of a subject which should at the very least have gotten an impartial hearing, and if it had gotten an impartial hearing, they certainly would have concluded, you know, the evidence is building up.
Maybe we cannot determine yes or no in four or five months that it's real or not real.
But perhaps we should spend a little more money and time before we throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Well, let's assume that they chose to do the latter.
And by the way, even though official government research in the United States, except in a very limited way by military funding on occasion, the military seems to know what it's doing, the Navy in particular from time to time, it is being researched very heavily in Japan, heavily in Italy.
Italy has an official program.
The Russians are very interested in it.
The next coal fusion conference next May, I think the 19th through the 24th, 2002, is in Beijing.
So it is going forward, regardless of what official U.S. policy is.
So, you know, it's really outrageous that we have to even, 13 years almost after the discovery was announced, we have to be talking about it on a very fine radio program.
But nonetheless, why we should be doing something about it instead of just talking.
I mean, when you look out into space and you say, my gosh, here's energy that will last, it's cheap, it's probably free in most cases, and we'll never run out of it.
Except no one's producing it.
We'll talk more about it right here on coast to coast.
unidentified
Talk Radio 710 KCMO.
It's been a too long time with no peace of mind.
And I'm ready for the time to get better.
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Now, Coast to Coast AM with George Norry continued on pre-made radio.
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There are many private companies in the United States working on this.
Private companies, private individuals.
There are people in, as I say, these foreign countries that I've listed.
So it's going to happen.
All right.
What the world would look like with coal fusion is as follows.
We would not have central power stations, in my opinion, in all likelihood.
We would have small, compact units per home, or per apartment building, as an example, or in a major industrial complex, there might be one plant.
Basically, the reactors would provide electricity and heat or cooling, and the cost of the produced electricity would be virtually zero.
There would be no recurrent fuel costs because really the cost of the heavy water fraction out of water would be so minuscule compared to the value of the energy that it would not be a factor.
Basically, there would be a capital cost to acquire the equipment, obviously, to produce the electricity and heat and cooling, but there would be no recurrent fuel costs.
Now, this is a very alien concept to us.
We're used to the idea that energy has to be expensive, or it has to at least be something that we have to pay for.
With the energy, as we call infinite energy, which is the name of your magazine, do you reuse it over and over again, or do you have to go get another gallon of water to do it?
The amount of heavy water that you use is so small that for all practical purposes, a very small amount will last a very long time.
Okay?
Do you worry about whether or not it's going to rain outside ever to get a few drops of rain?
That's what we're talking about.
Basically, some devices would come preloaded with the fuel and with the catalysts, and that would be the end of it for the life of the product.
Or you'd throw the product out, throw the coal fusion reactor out, or recharge it with some very inexpensive module of some kind, and that would continue.
It would probably be smaller than the current engine.
The very high power densities have already been measured in coal fusion reactors.
Kilowatts, thousands of watts per cubic centimeter, have already been measured in some coal fusion reactions.
So it's not expected that the reactor would be very big.
It would be very small.
It would generate steam, perhaps, from the heat, and that steam would be turned into electricity to power the car.
Now, many people have heard of fuel cells, right?
Absolutely.
They're the rage.
Now, fuel cells are nice because when you use a fuel cell in the center of a city, all you get is the pollutant water, which isn't so bad.
But someone has to produce that hydrogen somewhere.
And it's going to come from one of two places.
It's going to come from water or it's going to come from fossil fuels.
Okay, there are various ways of running modern fuel cells today.
And we know they don't really have them all over the place yet in cars.
But fuel cells require fuel, require hydrogen, or require someone to make the hydrogen with some other energy source, like a nuclear reactor Or something else.
But coal fusion has so much energy per reaction, per hydrogen, that you don't need much of it at all to keep your car running indefinitely, or almost indefinitely, except for a rare recharge, and there's not even a water pollution coming out of it.
They might still be using it because it's very convenient.
It makes heat.
Another thing that cold fusion does, that we didn't even discuss yet, is it appears to be a new class of reactions that changes elements.
Some of the so-called cold fusion cells with different types of reactant materials and what have you have been shown to transmute elements.
This is very much like alchemy, except it's modern alchemy, and it's working, and it's detected by corporations like Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, top research labs at Hokkaido University, for example, in Japan, many other places.
So I think an advanced civilization might be using coal fusion-like processes for transmuting elements.
It will be possible for sure to make things like precious metals, which will no longer be precious, of course, and many other things that we need.
One of the things that you could use coal fusion for very soon if the energy reactors were developed, not so much for lifting off with the kind of Durman-Drong that we need today in these chemical rockets, which are archaic II, but once in orbit, we could very definitely use an electric generating source that could be powered by coal fusion, let's say to power the space station so we don't need all those solar panels.
Or let's say to power the ion engine of a very high efficiency rocket.
Ion engines have already been developed.
They have a very low thrust, but they're very highly efficient, which means you have to have only a tiny amount of mercury or cesium fuel that it shoots out.
And you can go to the planets very rapidly with ion engines.
The only problem with ion engines today, as I say, that are already developed and they're working, is that we don't have a good power source.
Right now, we have to rely on solar cells, things like that.
Except human beings, with their armoring, as it were, and their bad behavior and their just unbelievable obstinacy in denying realities that are brought to them on silver platters on occasion.
Human beings are their own worst enemy.
There's very little doubt about that.
Look at the strife in the world today.
Do we really need this strife?
Of course not.
But we're doing it anyway.
Do we really need to tell scientists who come to the world and say, here, I have a discovery.
We're not sure exactly what it is.
But why don't you look at it, okay, and investigate it.
And then maybe, since we see it and we're convinced it's real, maybe you will too.
But instead of that, they get run out of the country.
You know, Stanley Pons, an American citizen, wasn't.
I'm pretty sick of it too, but I'm still an American.
And he couldn't take it any longer.
He was, of course, the focus, the focus, one of the focuses.
Now, Dr. Martin Fleischman of England, a much more jovial and thick-skinned guy, I would have to say, he survived it, and he's still working in it, aiding the Italian program.
How soon do you think, Dr. Malov, how soon do you think it'll be before some company or some government says, we have it, we're using it, and here it is?
It could be next month, it could be a year from now, or five years, or whatever.
It's not an easy process.
Let's be clear on that.
Part of the reason it failed, and it should not have been abused ever, of course, was that since it wasn't so readily, readily, readily reproducible, okay, it was like the transistor in its early days.
It wasn't that reproducible, okay?
Little contaminants could prevent the reaction from occurring, etc.
It did get a bum rap because people wanted to see it, and maybe too much hype was put on it in the beginning by the media and or some of the inventors.
But that's neither here nor there.
That's water over the dam.
The question of the hour, as I've always said about this, is was it real or not?
And that's what the government panel that screwed us all, humanity you might say, in that early year by doing this rush to judgment.
They were not interested in truth.
They were interested in a preconceived notion that said this cannot be true.
And they thought, gee, if they're producing this heat, they must be having lots of fusion reactions.
Therefore, they're supposed to be getting lots of deadly radiation.
And since they're not getting lots of deadly radiation and they're not dead and sick, they can't be getting lots of heat.
There's an incompatibility, the enemies said.
But they really should have looked at it more carefully.
They should have said, you know, maybe when fusion occurs on the surface of a metal or in a metal, maybe it happens in a different way.
There were lots of scientists, by the way, who said that.
Nobel laureate Julian Schwinger, who was in favor of studying it.
He said that.
But the enemies who were in hot fusion, who had their preconceived notions of how this had to work and produce deadly radiation, they wouldn't give it the time of day.
I mean, it's extremely frustrating to realize that our own government has at its disposal the data that should indicate the value of research and that patents should be granted, for example.
We've had a lot of trouble in the United States even getting patent covered.
Some companies have succeeded in various ways, but it's been a hit or miss.
And many people, such as Pons and Fleischman themselves, and other people, such as Dr. Mitch Swartz in Massachusetts, another MIT graduate who's working on coal fusion, have been really screwed by the patent process and the patent system that has had certain rotten eggs and rotten apples in it that have decided, along with the hot fusion physicists, this can't be real, therefore we're not going to give it a patent.
Is this an effort to keep us down, to keep companies that are making a lot of money with an alternative energy and they just don't want us to have cheaper or freer energy?
You don't pay today for the amount of calculations that your computer does.
We used to pay for that in the old days when we had big mainframes.
But we don't pay for calculations any longer by computers.
We just buy the computer, put it on our desk, and put as much software as we want on it.
We have to pay for that, of course.
But some of you don't.
You download it.
But now in Cold Fusion, okay, you'll have to pay for the reactor, but you won't have to pay for the recurring costs of the electricity that we currently get or the fuel-ups that we get at gas stations.
But there'll be plenty of jobs.
No one should be afraid that Cold Fusion or any other infinite energy source is going to put millions or billions of workers out of work.
Oh, the government will find a way to tax it, of course.
They'll put some kind of meter on it.
Although I don't actually think that's going to succeed well because it will be too easy to get the free energy anyway, and therefore, even as much as government would like to control it and tax it, it's going to be hard to do.
And every house, by the way, is already perfectly set up for this kind of reactor because, of course, you already have your heat distribution system or cooling loops in your house, right?
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This would be a good night in many parts of the country to go outside and look up into the night sky.
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Some of the reactions that I would say are in the cold fusion field do look very archy and sparky.
The original cold fusion cell of doctors Pons and Fleischmann and many other people who have reproduced the electrolytic, electrochemical process, it's a very subtle one.
You wouldn't know much was going on in the cell except the detection of heat coming out of it.
But some of the cells, which go to higher voltages, do indeed produce underwater plasma-like behavior.
Some of those at the Hokkaido University as an example, which have published results in the Japanese Journal of Applied Physics, for example.
They're not banning cold fusion articles.
Those indeed have significant excess energy.
And in fact, these transmuted elements, that is elements that were not there to begin with.
It may have started as tungsten, but it may have on the tungsten many other elements seen by the most advanced spectroscopy techniques that are available in modern labs and in Japanese labs.
Another form of coal fusion is being pioneered by a chemical engineer who has three degrees from MIT.
He happens to live in New Hampshire as well.
Dr. Les Case.
His system uses, he started with a World War II oxygen cylinder, a small thing about the size of a football, and he puts in there a special kind of catalyst called, well, a carbon catalyst, which has palladium on it.
And so the heat he puts into that cell is less than the amount of heat that comes out, total.
And Dr. McCubry's group at SRI International, that was Stanford Research Institute, so to speak, done very high quality work to prove that not only does Dr. Case have excess heat in these experimental cells, but that helium is produced.
It's one of the best validations of the helium product.
That's what the critics in the beginning wanted.
They wanted to know how is this working?
What are you getting out?
Because the amount of reaction is so low that you can get a lot of heat from a tiny reaction, and you can hardly tell what's, quote-unquote, burning.
What Dr. Case is working toward right at the moment is enhancing his process and making it, trying to make it, self-sustain.
I think that will be a big turning point when you can regularly make a cold fusion cell, such as he has, self-sustained.
In other words, enough heat will be generated such that you won't have to supply any heat after it starts.
It will self-heat, as it were, much as a fire would do.
A fire is self-sustaining in the sense that you strike a match and you start a fire and combustibles occur, but it kind of goes by itself as long as it's got fuel to burn.
Dr. Malov, I wanted to ask you about codeposition fusion.
I'm looking at a graph of all the different kinds of cold fusion, and it seems to me that, according to this graph, codeposition looks like it's the best.
Now, my understanding is that's because there's some kind of an impurity problem.
Well, I don't know if it is the best process, and I'm not an expert on that particular process at all.
I'm more of a generalist, quite frankly, in this field.
But I would say that all methods need to be tried.
Now, that's a method whereby electrolytically you deposit metals, as I understand it, in, let us say, a heavy water solution and thus entrap into the matrix the heavy hydrogen in the heavy water.
It kind of puts it together already as a loaded electrode, as they say.
We don't want to get too technical for our audience here, but perhaps that is a process that more people should explore.
unidentified
Well, my question would be, are there any other processes that can ensure the same kind of prevention of other impurities other than deuterium entering the palladium?
Well, you know, I'm pretty impressed with the plasma electrolysis, which is so robust that you don't seem to need the kind of incredibly clean environment, perhaps, that one does need, apparently, in some more pristine electrolytic systems, such as the original palladium heavy water one.
I think this reproducibility problem is indeed the, has been the Achilles' heel of this process.
Had coal fusion in general been more reproducible in the beginning, it would have disarmed the critics.
More of them, a few of them at least, would have found it themselves in a more dramatic way.
Some of the critics did find it, by the way, like MIT, and then they threw it out.
It's miraculous, so to speak, that such a beautiful thing made out of, of course, trillions of water droplets that are refracting light in certain ways.
But it's a very miraculous-looking thing when you see it.
The ancients, who had no idea what a rainbow really was, would certainly have felt it was a supernatural occurrence.
But the idea that we have a source of energy, an infinite source of energy, in water, which is the basis of all life, is truly remarkable.
And there are many other sources that we can talk about and should talk about in the course of this program.
There are, for example, the Grenots, Dr. Peter Granot and Neil Granot, Massachusetts and in England, have a process whereby they create sparks or arcs, explode water, so to speak, and get no fancy palladium or anything in it, and they get excess energy.
And they are even doing it now in air.
They're making air arcs and doing that.
And then we have the most amazing work of all, in my opinion, is that of Dr. Paolo and Alexandra Correa in Canada, who have literally motors and other technologies that are working off the ether.
Yes, the ether, the thing that was said by contemporary 20th century and now mainstream physicists say there is no ether, that they know everything, they've got all the laws of physics figured out, and yet if you go to the Correa website, you know, etherometry.com, you will find testimonial and explanation of the fact that ether can be tapped.
Not the chemical ether that they put us to sleep with before surgery.
The ether that all physicists in the 19th century firmly believed had to be there as the conveying medium of light.
How does light get from the stars?
Does it go through a vacuum?
Well, that's what current physicists say happens, and they're wrong.
We took a very, very serious detour in physics in the 20th century with the advent and the apparent success, I say apparent, apparent success of Einstein's theories of relativity.
We've devoted three issues of our magazine recently to the fact that many critics of those theories have been voices in the wilderness.
But now it turns out that not only was this an important physics issue in a theoretical sense, that there is an ether, but it turns out that technologically, the ether will be even more important in the long run than cold fusion itself.
Quantum mechanics postulates that there is such a thing, and there are theories to explain zero-point energy.
But I must say that if you check the website of the Correas, Dr. Paolo and Alexander Correa, you will find alternate explanations, very significant ones, that have to do with not the zero-point energy of quantum mechanics,
but of an ether that is composed of what they call mass-free charge, mass-free ambipolar charge, sort of an ambidextrous kind of charge that can manifest itself and make motors work, certain types of motors that they have developed.
They have a device that's patented called a pulsed abnormal glow discharge reactor that's got U.S. and Canadian patents on it, and lo and behold, it produces more energy out than in.
In fact, when I was there myself visiting their laboratory earlier this year, there was a test that we ran that had 50 watts going in and 500 watts coming out.
Pretty good.
Of course, they had other motors.
You could read the letters of support that I put on their website, and another gentleman did, Mr. Uri Sudak, former chief technology officer of Israel Aircraft Industries, by the way.
And we both have viewed these motors and find them to be real.
And it's a sort of a mutual problem between society and how it works and how physics establishments works and how industrial companies spend their money and so forth.
And also how inventors react toward various things.
It's a close coupling between various aspects of human behavior, which sometimes leads to these unfortunate and long-standing hiatuses in understanding how the world really works.
There was a man by the name of Wilhelm Reich, for instance, and I did not know much about Reich until the Correas brought him to my attention.
I thought he was some kind of a nut.
That was the mythology that had grown up about him.
He was completely marginalized, and yet I would have to say, he was probably one of the greatest scientists of the 20th century.
He met with Albert Einstein in 1941.
He tried to show him some clear evidence using thermometers that there was an ether, okay, an apparent energetic ether.
Well, Albert Einstein actually measured this temperature difference, a very small temperature difference, between an air-suspended thermometer, an accurate one, and one that was over what we call a Faraday cage or a steel box.
And Einstein's assistant, Leopold Infeld, as the story unfolds, this absolutely did happen.
This is not a myth.
Leopold Infeld said, you know, we can explain this away.
Just like later on, almost 50 years later, the physicists explained away, quote unquote, cold fusion, that thermal anomaly.
So we reported that in issue 37 of Infinite Energy.
It's an amazing story.
Correas pointed out how they reproduced that experiment and found out, indeed, Wilhelm Reich, who was famous for Orgone energy, so-called Orgone Energy.
It's actually more complex than his original conception, how he was marginalized, that is, Wilhelm Reich.
And he died in 1957 in federal penitentiary, abused by the federal government, in my opinion.
He was doing research.
He was not particularly violating anyone's laws.
He was not selling cancer cures, but they made it out to that.
And as a result, we've lost six decades, you might say, of research.
I mean, I've always heard about cold fusion, fire from water.
I didn't really understand how close we were until I saw the movie, The Saint, that Dr. Eugene Malov was a consultant in.
And now I'm beginning to realize this is even closer than I ever imagined if only we could get some of these companies involved to get this thing out and start saving us some money.
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Well, to get the overall concept, you don't have to have a PhD.
I hope we've made it clear the basic origin and the fuel and so forth and how powerful it can be and what it will do.
But in order to understand or to speculate about how it works theoretically in the microcosm, how the interactions occur, which we're still trying to figure out.
You know, the theorists are battling amongst themselves about exactly how it works, whether standard quantum mechanics will ever explain it.
That's a question I have in mind.
So these are complex matters having to do with new theories of how atoms interact with one another.
You know, I'm not convinced at all, at all, that textbook physics, as taught at MIT, Harvard, or many other places, is right.
In fact, I'm quite convinced it's wrong.
Yes, it works up to a point.
Einstein's theories of relativity have certain formulas in them that work, but it doesn't necessarily work in a particular situation.
But it doesn't necessarily mean that the entire theory is the right theory of the universe and explains it all.
I don't honestly think that it will turn out to be restricted to one country or that one country will become dominant in any way.
I think the energy process is too universal as far as coal fusion goes, let us say, so that no one is going to really capture it.
I think it will spread like wildfire once the first products are introduced.
And I think some of the initial companies that pioneer coal fusion will be quite happy to have a small share of the market rather than to be a monopoly situation like Microsoft is for typically for some types of software and operating systems.
So I do think it will be universal, but it does require the key ingredient is the first products introduced to market.
Now, many of your listeners may think, well, the first products in market will be some kind of a home heating unit or an electric generator or so forth.
I don't think that's what's going to happen.
I think the first product will be demonstration devices.
In other words, people have in their laboratories, this is the problem with cold fusion, people have in their laboratories working cells.
There's no doubt about it.
It's reported at conferences.
But when someone wants to see one and see it themselves, the quick way, because they're tired of hearing all the arguments, they may be a technical person, they may be a businessman or woman or what have you, and they want to see it, okay?
They want to prove it to themselves.
They don't want anyone else to prove it.
They've heard too many arguments back and forth.
So if they have something to be purchased from some company, let's say they can afford whatever it is for that particular demonstration cell, and they see it working, I think the same thing will happen has happened with personal computers.
It's not an exact analogy, but it's similar.
The personal computer revolution was started when kits, little kits that did nothing, okay, other than demonstrate that an engineer could solder some chips together, provided in a kit, and make a working digital computer that he could put on his desk.
And hundreds of those were sold.
And the entrepreneurs in the early days, of the mid-70s, of the personal computer revolution, people like Bill Gates and the Apple people, that's how they got inspired.
The same thing will occur, in my opinion, with Cold Fusion.
Well, there's always been talk of reverse engineering that we may have picked up stuff and we've been able to really leapfrog years ahead of other people because of that.
Eugene, I know you're a practical scientist, but do you ever dabble in this area?
And my view is that the scientific establishment, again, has pulled off a gigantic hoax on reality by ignoring the fact that there are interesting residues of UFO phenomena.
I mean, not every light in the sky that you can't explain is obviously an extraterrestrial craft, but it certainly should be studied and not ridiculed.
And frankly, I am completely convinced that advanced civilizations using technologies that work on the ether, okay, as opposed to our conventional blindered physics, could come here very rapidly if they wish to and could flit around and come in and out.
And so I see no problem in the possibility that some part of the UFO phenomenon is indeed alien civilizations.
Why not?
unidentified
Do you think that plasma technology is part of that?
Yeah, well, you know, I don't know where this information comes from.
All I can say is I respect people who study UFOs.
I belong to a society called the Society for Scientific Exploration, and they have many fine lecturers who come in and present what, excuse me, is rather compelling evidence that visitations may be occurring, may have occurred.
It's an open question.
It's certainly not something that should be ridiculed.
But what we see today in the contemporary scientific scene is complete ridicule and censoring of proper scientific questions.
It is a question.
Are they here?
Can they travel here?
And this is not of interest to the scientific establishment.
Let's now go to first-time caller, Tucson, Arizona.
Mike, you're on Coast to Coast AM with Dr. Eugene Malov.
Hello, Michael.
unidentified
Yes.
Hello, Dr. Malov.
I'm on my cell phone here, so I hope you can hear me okay.
I can hear you low.
Okay, well, I'm very impressed with you as a person and the amount of knowledge you have and your scientific insight.
The main reason that I'm calling is that I have a tape in my possession, and it's about a self-generating, I don't know what the unit you could call it.
If you're using the word hummingbird, my understanding is that a man by the name of Dennis Lee who is not carried through, in my opinion, I have not seen anything that he has purveyed as far as a free energy source that is testable.
I went to one of his meetings in New Hampshire, Bedford, New Hampshire, when he came here.
And he haranged for about four hours, but he gave no proofs that he really had anything.
And then, to top it off, my understanding is this: he was exhibiting a technology that is owned by a good colleague of mine who is an inventor, whose name is Paul Pantone.
He did not mention that Paul Pantone's technology of sort of an unusual plasma fuel source for fossil fuel devices like lawnmowers and so forth.
He did not mention Paul's name, which was unethical in my opinion.
So I am very, very dubious as to whether Mr. Dennis Lee, who puts all sorts of ads in national magazines and newspapers, whether he has anything at all.
Some of the things that he showed, by the way, at these exhibits, the exhibit in New Hampshire at least, are standard things that are explained by normal physics, like dropping a magnet through a thick-walled copper pipe.
And it goes down, it seems like it's virtually weightless as it goes down so very slowly.
This is a very standard physics thing, and he just is a magician as far as I'm concerned.
So really, I don't, when I hear the word hummingbird, I get the creeps.
It's exciting to talk with you, and I can't wait to do it more again next hour because I have literally learned more in just a few hours, Dr. Maloff, talking with you than I have in any book.
Basically, the oil companies couldn't let this thing out to the public.
Also, Howard Johnson's magnetic motor, which I made toy models of that for my grandkids, that we'll be putting in one of his exhibitions for school, for a science fair project.
You know, I'd love to see a, if you wouldn't mind, if you would send me an article or send me an actual linear Howard Johnson motor, I'd be happy to see it.
unidentified
I can see the magazine to have all that stuff in it.
well it's interesting howard johnson was a of magnet motor man and he actually No, no.
It has nothing to do with that, Howard Johnson.
He's actually still alive, I believe, in Virginia someplace, but he wants to be very quiet.
But he did get patents, and he almost didn't get a patent, the United States patent, except he did exhibit a linear motor, they say, which means that a linear demonstration, should I say, whereby a magnet pulled a magnet into a tunnel.
A magnet was pulled from a starting stop, from a stop, right into a little tunnel configuration, and then it shot out at the other end with excess energy.
And that's amazing.
You're not supposed to be able to do that with magnets.
We think of it as just, okay, it's something you put in your car.
It's something that comes through the wires for your house.
But energy really is at the basis of all civilization.
And it transforms everything.
If you have enough, in other words, if it's free or inexhaustible and clean, you can do things like have agriculture in places where you normally couldn't have it.
You can desalinate water very cheaply or almost for free, with the exception of the capital cost of the equipment and pumps and things like that.
But if you don't have to pay for the energy, who is to stop us from pumping huge quantities of beneficial water into the Sahara Desert, as an example, making it bloom?
And people could have craft that were, let us say, flying indefinitely around the Earth, and they could actually live on platforms high in the atmosphere.
But I'm, you know, the only thing that's holding it back, the thing that's clear is that these energies that we've been talking about are real.
Coal fusion is real.
Ether energy is real.
At least as far as I've seen it and a few other people have seen it working in laboratories.
And there are some other inventors out there who might have free energy sources themselves other than what, let us say, what Dr. Correa and company have in Canada.
So these energies exist, and the theory supporting them exist.
The thing that's missing is the wherewithal, usually financial, to go forward and not be blocked by various things that get in the way.
There are many things that get in the way.
We can argue all evening about what is getting in the way.
I have my opinions, other people have their opinions.
But all I can say is it's not nature that's preventing this.
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I'm George Norrie, Coast to Coast AM with my guest, Dr. Eugene Malov, who is educating all of us about cold fusion, this exciting form of energy that, gosh, Dr. Malov, I hope one day we really do get it.
I hope it's not a pipe dream of people.
I hope somebody really puts it together.
So here's my question to you before we go back to calls.
What will it take to get this thing out to market?
Some of the best benefactors are really good people, and they've already given a lot of money.
But the field, let's face it, needs a lot more resources than it's probably going to get that way.
So the next best way is for something the equivalent of the demonstration, personal computer route.
When you trigger the field with excitement more than it's gotten out, right now we have lots of paper studies and lectures and videotapes and scientific papers and conferences.
But we don't have something that you can physically hand somebody and prove to them that it's working.
Now our laboratory is an example.
I'll toot our horn a little bit.
We've worked with a scientist on the West Coast, Silicon Valley area.
His name is Roger Stringham.
And he developed an acoustic reactor that is something that has heavy water in it, but the excess energy is triggered by high-frequency sound beaming against a metal target.
There are many ways, as I've said, to generate cold fusion.
We just were very interested in testing it in other modes, so we kind of stopped that particular experiment.
The interesting thing about that experiment is it's measured very, very carefully.
The error on the signal, okay, that 9 watts of free energy.
The error on that signal was only about 2 tenths of a watt.
So in other words, we could take it to the bank, so to speak.
We fully believe that we have that excess energy, and we believe that it will be possible to make that or a similar level emerge on demand.
We've had about three very successful runs in a row, and it's looking like we could take this and put it into a device that would be good for a laboratory use.
Oh, I hope so.
Because, look, it's not going to drive your car.
It's not going to power your house.
But what it is going to do is it's going to say, look, if you've been wondering about coal fusion, if you want to know, if you want to get into this field, if you're an industrialist Or you're a high-tech this, that, or the other person, then you need to know whether it's real, and you may want to experiment with it yourself.
Here is the prototype kit, as it were, that you could use.
It won't be cheap, I'm sure, but you know, because the components are not cheap.
And the labor-intensive thing that we've had to go through to even get to this stage, over a year of work on this, to make sure that we were not fooling ourselves.
You know, unlike the critics of this field who did slapdash work, okay, in the beginning, and they threw the baby out with the bathwater, and they created a terrible disaster for the United States and the world on this subject.
And it makes me very excited, and I just hope that as soon as we can get these things running, it's better for us in any form or shape you can imagine.
Now, my question is companies like Japan and Israel and China, these countries really, they need energy.
So I'm just curious why these people do not, I mean, they should be working on this idea.
They're not putting as much money into it as they should be, but they definitely have companies like Mitsubishi.
We've had some of their work featured in our magazine.
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, their advanced technology laboratory, is working on it.
Many of the university professors have funds that they can use to work on it.
Honda is working on it.
So they are working on it.
Now in China, Dr. XZ Li, who's on our sort of advisory board of our magazine, he's a physicist at Tsinghua University in Beijing.
He has organized the ninth international coal fusion conference, which is going to occur in May.
And I'm sure the Chinese officials and the Chinese scientists, both in and not so in the coal fusion field, will be there listening.
Let's talk about Israel.
Israel has several scientists in various universities who do subscribe to our magazine, Infinite Energy.
I don't know exactly what they're doing.
Another very interesting Israel connection, I would say, is with ether energy.
In other words, there was a time when Mr. Uri Sudak, who used to be the chief technology officer of Israel Aircraft Industries, he recommended to Israel Aircraft Industries that they further investigate the work of the Canadian group that I referred to earlier, Apollo and Alexander Correa.
And if you read his letter of support on their website, etherometry.com, that's A-E-T-H-E-R-O-M-E-T-R-Y, you will see that he advised them to take it seriously.
They didn't.
They preferred at the time, early 90s, I believe it was, to put their resources elsewhere.
Of all countries that should have taken this very seriously, it wasn't a government policy issue.
It was simply a bureaucratic mistake that they preferred to put their money in research in another area.
And so Mr. Sudak left Israel Aircraft Industries for that and other reasons.
Now finds himself in the United States, and he is working with the Correas to see how this technology might go forward.
But, you know, the tragedy of it is there should have been a lot more.
When you put a lot of brain power in, particularly when the United States does, it's a very go-getter, you know, proactive country on technology, I would say.
So if there had been many other minds working on it in industry and universities, I think it would be far more ahead today.
Of course, so would ether energy if Einstein had done the right thing in 1941.
Well, you know, but the Big Bang cosmologists today say the universe is accelerating, that it's expanding faster and faster, and that they invent all these fantasies today, quintessence.
Well, they have dark matter for a long time, and they keep changing the brew to make the data that they think they see work.
And what they do, though, is they ignore some of the most fundamental evidence that suggests that, A, the cosmic background radiation can be explained by other means.
That was the thing that supposedly made the Big Bang win.
And more importantly, even, there are quasars that are seen near galaxies.
The astronomer Halton ARP has seen them.
He's photographed them.
And he's brought them to the attention of the astronomy community.
The problem with those quasars is that they have what is called very high redshift.
So in other words, they, by normal understandings, should be very, very, very, very far away.
And the galaxy right between them has a low redshift, and it should be much closer.
He says they're attached to one another.
They're obviously attached to one another by statistics and many other things.
And therefore, there's some problem with interpreting the redshift as a distance measure.
And if that's true, if he's correct, and I'm quite sure he is correct, and others like him are correct, the Big Bang is not real.
This doesn't surprise me at all because, after all, a scientific establishment that dumps on cold fusion the way this one did, that buys fictions for over 80 years, such as special relativity, which has so many problems,
in addition to the fact that it does have efficacy and goodness in some of its formulas do describe some things that are happening, but it's not the full picture.
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unidentified
Mom, Dad, someone's going to try to get me to take drugs.
Want to do something about it?
Then you're going to have to make me tell you where I am and who I'm with every day.
You said the amount of there is in one gallon of water enough of the form of water called heavy water such that when you fuse it with cold fusion to make helium, that reaction has already been seen, you get 300 gallons energy equivalent of gasoline from that one gallon of ordinary water.
So a tiny amount of even that one gallon to make that 300 gallons of gasoline energy equivalent is used, namely 16,700.
Only a tiny amount of the water is ever used.
So there's not going to be lots of water delivery trucks and so forth.
You might have to replace a cartridge or so, but, you know, from time to time, of a catalyst or some other component.
We don't know the exact design features that a coal fusion reactor would ultimately use, but the cost of the fuel, this is the key.
The cost of the fuel will be essentially zero.
I can't emphasize that enough.
Listen to this.
In one cubic kilometer of ocean, smaller than a cubic mile, that's a tiny part of all the oceans in the world.
There is enough heavy water in just that little tiny part of the planet's water that when you fuse it to helium in a cold fusion reaction, you get more energy than all the known oil reserves.
So a tiny part of the ocean used will give us all the energy we need.
No water will be wasted, and the fuel cost essentially is zero because the energy that's produced in the coal fusion reaction will be used to extract, in effect, more heavy hydrogen or heavy water from the ordinary oil.
And they're going to make plenty of money selling you the power supply, too.
Okay?
The coal fusion device is definitely going to cost something.
And it's going to be a huge industry to make more and more and more of these, just like there is to buy computers.
But when you consider the power that a computer gives you today, virtually free information over the internet, as you well know, compared to what it would cost years ago, and you couldn't even get it then.
Okay?
That's what we're talking about.
We have virtually, not exactly an age of free information, but it's almost free today compared to what it would have cost you years ago if you could get it at all.
So in the future, we're going to have free energy where the cost of energy is virtually nothing compared to what it was before.
But more to the point, most of us can afford our fuel bills.
Yeah, but you know, the thing we're more concerned about is the hazard of fuel, of the hazard of depending on Saudi Arabia, as an example, or the Gulf region of the world as our main source of energy here in the United States.
That's the scary thing.
And the pollution of the environment.
Okay?
Whether or not there is a global warming or a threat of global warming, there will be no global threat of warming if we have fuels that do not liberate carbon.
All I can tell you is this, that we took a terribly wrong detour with Einstein's relativity theory.
And this isn't coming about by prejudice of any kind against Einstein per se.
In fact, I rather like some of Einstein's sentiments.
But his physics is wrong.
It postulates that he made two postulates.
Number one, the speed of light is constant for all observers, and the other one, that there was a relativity principle, which he took actually from someone else by the name of Henri Poincaré and so forth.
To make a long story short, a lot of his formulas that came out of those two postulates, like in geometry, you have postulates, and then you get derivative, you derive things from them.
A lot of these derivatives, like E equals mc square and certain other things, something that resembles time dilation and what have you, they seem to work by describing certain experiments, okay?
And they work very accurately in describing those experiments.
But the math fools you into thinking that the whole theory is correct.
And what this gave us is the abolition of the ether.
The ether was the most important thing of all in the 19th century, okay?
and it was most important that in the twentieth century we get to fully understand exactly what the ether was Yeah, by the way.
Sure, it was an invisible essence, as it were, the best way of putting it, substance of some kind that didn't appear to have inertial properties.
It wasn't massy, so to speak.
And it penetrated everything, and it was in everything.
That was the idea, and light could go through it.
They had various vague ways of describing things.
It was an experiment done in 1887, the Michelson-Morley experiment, and physicists in the 20th century, following Einstein, believed that that experiment by Michelson-Morley disproved the ether.
Michelson went to his grave in the 1920s, I believe, still believing in the ether, but the relativity people said there was no ether.
And this was a gigantic mistake that led to our not understanding the ether.
We're only beginning to understand it now thanks to the work of people like Wilhelm Reich in the 1940s and 50s.
And by taking the differential, you, just briefly, if you take a pie plate, but multiply it times 100,000, the size of a football field or a tennis court, and you put that pie plate on the water at low tide, and you'll allow the tide to come up.
Sure.
And when that pipe lifts...
Right.
At the stroke of high tide, you allow the pie plate to become awash in the water.
So now it's sitting in the water like a boat.
And you hold it in place as the tide goes out.
You hold it in place with a stanchion or a chair cables or whatever.
So now the potential energy is the weight of the water in the pi plate.
In fact, tidal power has been speculated to be used, for example, in the Bay of Fundy up in Canada, where, I think that's Canada, where you, maybe it's Maine.
No, it's Canada, I think.
And on the eastern coast.
And this Bay of Fundy has huge tides, right?
And if you dam it up, and you, you know, so you catch the tide when it's in there, close it up, and then let the water fall down like a dam, so to speak, that's how you get energy.
One way or the other, whether your device is easy to use on lower heads of tide or who knows.
But yes, there is a lot of tidal energy, but you need a lot of coast, probably, for what you're trying to do to make it work.
Well, I think it's, I don't know the full story of Harvey's experience with this invention, but whenever you have a new invention, let's say it works like his does, I'm sure his thing probably works.
It sounds reasonable.
Use on A principle that we all understand, and there's no debate about the tides that can be used for energy.
But to upset the apple cart, the existing structure, okay, of how we get electricity is something else.
You've got to find someone to put venture money in to, let's say, have a project, and then you'd have to have government approval to use this coast or that coast.
I don't know whether it is or not, but I'll tell you what, I finally, it took me a little effort, but I actually talked to one of their representatives and I got to the company.
No, no, but it was completely based on a fiction, namely that Dennis Lee and his group actually have the wherewithal to make anything like that.
They don't, apparently.
And he certainly doesn't have one.
If he had one, he should show a report, a technical report.
He doesn't have to sell one yet.
I'm not objecting on that basis.
But if he has a device that he claims is going to generate free energy, and it is possible to do this, I know, because I've seen it in real devices that I've personally tested, okay?
But if he has one, at least he should report some kind of numbers from it, or have someone report numbers from it.
But is this going to be one of those things, Dean, where people will just pop out of nowhere and say, we've got this now, we've been waiting on it, and now we're ready to go.
They're being paid to do white-collar academic welfare.
This is what it is.
You know, the hot fusion program has been going on for 50 years now, and it's over $15 billion, and they have not produced anything except physics experiments.
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unidentified
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We have just rediscovered the universe because the ether is the largest fraction, apparently, of the universe.
Now, this is not to confuse it with what modern cosmologists are talking about, or shall I say, establishment cosmologists, who are saying that there's a special kind of dark matter that is either dark energy that's accelerating the universe, retarding the universe, or whatever.
These are fantasies that they have come up with.
What I'm talking about are devices now and experiments described on the etherometry.com website that prove conclusively that there is an ether.
Now this ether is not a simple matter to get the full physics of.
It requires in-depth building up of a theoretical framework to describe it.
Just as we have to say, right now, the way physicists view the universe is this.
Matter, little atoms, little subatomic particles, banging around in a vacuum.
That is the concept that you must have in contemporary physics.
Furthermore, with the Big Bang theory in contemporary physics, all of this, everything, the vacuum, the matter, everything at one time about 15 or 20 billion years ago came out of nothing.
It emerged from a point in space-time, a singularity, as they say.
In other words, space and time, you thought space was one thing in your life, and you thought time was another thing.
But since, and, you know, the common person feels that.
But since we've had relativity and physics of the 20th century, we've had this, what I consider now to be a fiction, namely that there is something called space-time that can actually compress itself, Or was compressed at one time to a tiny point.
Now, it seems rather mind-boggling that that's what people believe.
And I at one point did believe the Big Bang myself, that all of space-time, this four-dimensional space-time, could emerge out of nothing and generate, as it were, all matter in this vacuum of space-time.
Imagine now that instead of space-time, which is what relativistic physics gives you, you have instead an infinite, enduring universe filled with a primordial or enduring substance that's complex, that has certain qualities to it that we must learn to understand.
This is the most beautiful aspect about it, which is why I'm so excited about the website of the Correas, that is the etherometry website.
It's exciting because there are actual experiments that can be done with rather simple apparatus, and they describe them very clearly with electroscopes, which you can find in physics laboratories.
These are little things that have static charge that make the leaves, little gold leaves that they usually have, spread apart, or even things as simple as thermometers, and I've done some of those experiments myself, where you can make measurements in your own laboratory, they need to be done carefully, to convince you through a variety of experiments that there is an ether.
Now, what really convinced me, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that there is an ether, is that at the Correa's laboratory, I witnessed a small motor in the several watt range working with no input fuel.
In other words, even a cold fusion reactor would require some kind of fuel, right?
Hydrogen.
These devices appear, as I say, they do not appear to violate the conservation of energy.
They don't, okay?
They are getting their energy from the ether.
And the ether is not just a fluid, as the 19th century physicists thought.
It's not just an invisible fluid pervading all space that allows light to go through it.
Now, in science, of course, it doesn't matter who is in the majority.
Scientific truth is not determined by majority rule.
Science is determined.
Scientific truth is determined by what really is there in nature.
And sometimes it's hard to convince an establishment which has one concept, such as the Big Bang and no ether, that there is an ether.
But when you see a motor running by itself and evidently using parts of the ether to operate, okay, to make itself work, I can't think of anything else that would be making it work.
It certainly wasn't the reception of radio waves that was making this motor work, then you've got to throw out the idea that there is no ether.
There is an ether.
And this ether is very important.
If you read my testimonial of what I saw at the Correa Laboratory and others, you will know that there is a motor that has some kind of connection with some of the biological effects that we've wondered about.
We'll go to the wild card caller, first of all, Lucas Valley, California.
Rick, good morning.
You are now on Coast to Coast A.M. Hello, Rick.
unidentified
Good morning, George.
I have an answer to a puzzlement you seem to have come up against.
This shyster, hookster, he purported this hoax on people, and he would go from town to town dropping the little white tablets and putting water from simple garden oils into his gas tank.
Well, I would have to say that the ether helps in a very major way to give rise to life in the universe.
Therefore, I tend to believe now, as I did before believe, that it was likely that wherever there were suitable planets for life to begin, to evolve, and the process of evolution does occur, but how that evolution occurs is another question.
We have to, that's another topic.
But I do believe that the ether facilitates the origin of life.
And that's a complex story, and I'm not truly the expert on it.
I think the Correas have delved into that a lot and may in the future be writing about that topic.
It's a more amazing story than you can imagine.
We've gone, you know, there was an experiment in the 1950s.
In which it was called the Uri Miller experiment, in which Uri Miller experiment, in which they took chemicals and used sparks in these gases and water and so forth to make primitive molecules that could later, one would think, evolve to create living cells, which then might perhaps further evolve in other ways.
It turns out there are some ways of doing that same type of experiment that Wilhelm Reich did in the 30s that may well be working.
In other words, it may be possible to create primitive life forms in a much simpler way than had previously been thought.
And I think that will ultimately be shown to be the case.
But let us see.
Let's take a wait-and-see attitude about that particular matter.
Yes, there was a Greek philosopher by the name of, I may be confusing which one, the Coraias have written about him, but I read about him myself independently.
Anaximander in ancient Greece thought of the idea that there was some fine substance between the atoms in the universe.
And later on, that theory in the modern scientific era came when people needed something for light waves to go through.
Remember, there was a big debate starting with Newton, Isaac Newton, in the 17th century as to whether light was particles or waves.
And Huygens, I believe that's the pronunciation, the Dutch scientists, believed it was wave action.
And of course, if you have a wave, you need something to wave in.
And so every scientist in the 19th century believed that electromagnetic radiation, light, radio waves that were later discovered and so forth, was part of light, had to have an ether, A-E-T-H-E-R, to go through.
They all believed this.
If you pick up any 19th century physics book, you will hear talk of the ether.
In fact, you will hear that written about in many early 20th century textbooks.
In other words, the Earth and the Sun and many other things would go through this ether.
They had no trouble with that.
The ether clearly could not be very massive.
In other words, it couldn't have inertial mass to it that would stop things going through it.
It penetrated them.
That was the general idea.
Now it turns out that that idea, which was dismissed when Einstein came up with his theory of relativity in 1905, his theory of relativity, by the way, was not accepted by the way.
It was only accepted, or began to be strongly accepted, about the year 1919, when an eclipse of the sun appeared to confirm, as I say appeared to confirm some of his predictions.
It turned out that it didn't confirm his predictions.
But in any event, ether went out the window at that point.
And relativity physics, space-time, took over.
And we have been paid for that mistake.
It was a big mistake.
It was a lucky guess that Einstein made, that his postulates led to the formulas that did seem to describe certain things like E equals Mc squared and many other things that could be pointed to today by the physicists who believe in relativity.
We've still got a half hour left on coast to coast, and we'll go back.
We'll take more phone callers as we probe, dig, and try to find out a few more answers about this infinite energy, just what it all means to all of us.
And gosh, it sure would be nice one day, one day, if some group just got it done without fighting, without squabbling, without doing anything.
Wouldn't it?
I'd like that.
I'm George Norrie.
You're listening exclusively to Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified
Talk Radio 710 KCMO.
Talk Radio 710 KCMO.
The only place in Kansas City for entertaining and informative talk radio in the morning is on Talk Radio 710 KCMO with Hickman and Doyle 5 till 9.
Yes, they are zombies because they have mental blinders on to the easy way of doing it, which is demonstrated by peer-reviewed literature if they would only look at the literature.
But the professors at MIT are not pointing to that literature, not believing in that literature, not doing a damn thing about it.
One of my favorite programs on television is called One Step Beyond.
Normally it's a half-hour program, but in this case, they have just, I mean, which is all in one subject, but in this case, it's just the first 15 minutes.
The second 15 minutes, they talk about stones falling out of a sky from Chico, which is authenticated, and the San Francisco Chronicle.
But anyway, could I have your email address so I can tell you how you can get more information on this, and then I'll tell you what the story is on One Step Beyond?
where did he go he disappeared i have a copy of it someplace on video but uh took place in Yeah, go ahead.
It took place in the 1920s, judging by the cars which were driven at that time.
And I guess it was a vice president or some federal official who drove up, and this man comes up to him, very well dressed, and he says, excuse me for interrupting you.
You know, he pulled up in front of the White House or wherever it was.
He says, excuse me for interrupting you, but I just had to get your attention.
And he proceeds to empty all the gasoline out of the gas tank and takes a garden holes and fills it up with water and drops two pills in it.
And the security guards, of course, are kind of shook up about the sort of man he was with.
But anyway, to make a long story short, they put they developed, put together an engine in a laboratory, and under totally controlled conditions, they drop these two pills into the water.
First, they test the water and make sure there's nothing in it.
Yeah, well, but to continue, they excuse this gentleman, so the vice president, whoever, or whoever it was, can consult with one or two of the scientists there.
And they come out about four minutes later, and the man's disappeared.
He was going to sell it to them for, I forget how much, $10,000 or $100,000, I can't remember.
What is phenomenal, just more or less a comment morning, although I've researched quite a bit with the coal fusion, and there does seem to be some medium there.
And what is baffling to me that there is no project Manhattan style to research any of this at all.
And we're going to need to get off our behinds within the Next 50 years, do some real scientific head-banging to get to the bottom of some of these theories.
But also, I mean, we're living in a day and age where these guys, I believe, in Boston, across the nation, with French Pride Greece.
And there's a multitude of things that are out there that are, in my mind, being totally quashed by entities within our government and probably without of our government.
But we need to come to some consensus at some point that it'd be more advantageous for us to go ahead and get off of this fossil fuel addiction as soon as possible.
There are now small fusion reactors that are producing cold fusion.
Fusion of heavy hydrogen to helium, which has been detected and measured, with no corresponding deadly radiation.
That's happening.
We have a cell in our laboratory that we've worked on for a year that we put in acoustic energy into heavy water, which has heavy hydrogen in it, and we get out a rather significant excess heat signal.
One experiment, we had eight solid excess heat watts coming out, 20 watts going in, 28 or so going out, 19 in, 28 out, and very high signal-to-noise ratio, no doubt about it.
We didn't measure helium.
We aren't equipped for it, but I bet you dollars to donuts, if we sampled a gas, and we eventually will in experiments, we'd find helium.
Probably.
unidentified
Well, I think what you're saying is that you're producing more energy than you put in.
You know, some of us like to eat, and we like to pay the rent.
Our magazine, by the way, which is $29.95, does not support itself.
unidentified
That's off the subject, but a couple nights ago, you guys, this is way off the subject, but you had a show where you talked about a conspiracy that we never landed people on the moon.
Well, gasoline, a haul gasoline, a gasoline tanker truck.
Oh, yeah.
And a gallon of gasoline, when it gets colder, although the net gallons changes, the volume changes, temperature changes, that gallon that you put in, if you lower the temperature on it, it will actually weigh more.
If the truck weighs more, if on some weighing scale, if that's what the effect is, I wouldn't have imagined it would be that measurable, but I would assume that the fuel is just denser at that cold temperature.
Therefore, there's more mass or weight, as we say, with the pull of gravity.
So therefore, I can imagine a tanker truck having more actual gasoline In it by mass in colder weather.
I have a question regarding energy capabilities of an advanced civilization.
Sure, huh?
And basically, I don't know if your guest has heard about the theory, but there's a theory that states there are three levels of energy that could be harnessed from the universe.
And one being the energy of an atom, which we've already mastered, I believe so.
And number two would be the energy of a star.
And ultimately, number three would be the energy of the solar system.
The different civilizations that were classed in some of the speculations about the search for advanced extraterrestrial civilizations by microwave radio search.
They classified them as type 1, type 2, type 3.
I forgot what type 3 was.
Type 3, I think, had command of the energy of an entire galaxy.
But when we get hold of coal fusion or ether technology, which we're in the process of doing, it seems, we will very rapidly, I think, become a much more powerful civilization.
Let's go to our final caller, if we can, Dr. East of the Rockies, Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
Ruth, you're on coast.
Hello, Ruthie.
unidentified
I've been fascinated with the subject ever since I came across a statement in a book that says, since the time of Tesla, governments have not allowed the knowledge of zero-point to come forth because at this time, Tesla wanted to give free, unlimited energy to the world, which he knew would come forth from zero-point technology.
But they said at that time, J.P. Morgan, who owned the copper mines, did not want free electricity to come forth.
And so they decided to pass it to the copper wires.
And so I think just recently they showed that these machines, once running, could give off more electricity than it would take to run them.
They showed that batteries that never needed charging.
And these scientists showed that how an ordinary gasoline motor could be converted to run on ordinary water with more power than gas.
I'm George Norrie, and you, of course, are listening to Coast to Coast AM.
Artsback is still acting up, so for the next two more shows, for the next two more shows, I'll be guest hosting, bringing you, of course, open lines, exclusive, thought-provoking interviews as we scan the world, as we scan the universe, to bring you the latest, the cutting edge of Talk Radio, right here on Coast to Coast.
I'm George Norrie.
Have a safe day, everyone.
unidentified
Talk Radio 710 KCMO.
Talk Radio 710 KCMO.
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