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June 5, 2001 - Art Bell

02:52:09

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Bigfoot Research - Robert W. Morgan - Bugs

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	From the Coast to Coast AM archives, you're listening to the best of Art Bell.
	This program originally aired June 5th, 2001.
	Please do not call.
	From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, or good morning, or afternoon, wherever you may be, across this great land of ours, from in the West, Guam, the island of the Rock, eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S.
	Virgin Islands, south into South America, north all the way to the Poland, worldwide.
	I'm the old internet.
	This is Coast to Coast AM, and I'm Art Belk.
	Glad to be with you.
	Should be quite a program tonight.
	Coming up in a moment... Oh my... Some years ago, I interviewed a fellow named Bugs, who claimed that he shot two creatures that he thinks might have been Bigfoot.
	On my webcam, you will see half of a map.
	Bugs has sent me a map of the burial location of whatever these creatures are.
	I don't know that I like that kind of responsibility.
	We'll ask Bugs here in a minute why he sent it.
	Robert W. Morgan, who is a premier Bigfoot investigator here in the U.S., and I thought he ought to listen to Bug's story this time, as we listen to it once again.
	And maybe he has some questions that I forgot to ask.
	Pretty serious subject, and why only half the map?
	Well, that's obvious.
	First of all, we've got...
	I've got a map to the burial location of two creatures.
	We'll decide as the program wears on what it is these creatures are.
	I'm going to introduce two people to you right now.
	One is Robert W. Morgan.
	Robert, are you there?
	I'm listening with both ears.
	You are there.
	Okay.
	Let's see, the first thing you wanted me to do was to give out your phone number on the air, right?
	Yeah, just like I'm going to give out your home.
	You betcha!
	Alright, so you're kind of in retreat right now.
	When you first wrote to me, you said, I'm kind of undercover with a pal.
	Nobody's found you for a while, Robert.
	Yes, I'm living somewhere in Montana, and as you know, it's a pretty large state.
	I know.
	And I'm here on purpose, and it's carrying on some things.
	We've had some rather significant successes with those audio cassettes that I had mentioned to you at one time.
	Right.
	And so far, 16 people so far, by following that, have had face-to-face Meetings?
	Yes.
	Encounters?
	Yes.
	With Bigfoot?
	Yes.
	And so what I'm trying here is, since I found that I needed an area where I wasn't known, and where people would not waste their time playing nonsense, and starting from scratch.
	And at the same time, of course, I love Montana.
	I've been in and out of Montana for 20-some years, and it's absolutely fabulous.
	Alright, so your quest continues, and you've been researching Bigfoot for how long, Robert?
	Well, my first sighting was 1957, but I didn't start serious research until about, I think it was 1969.
	And you have, did you write a book?
	No, I did an audio cassette.
	The book is incomplete because I haven't finished it yet for obvious reasons.
	All right.
	Well, I may have another chapter for you here.
	Good.
	I'm all ready.
	All right.
	So you'll be doing a lot of listening, although you're welcome to ask a question as the story unfolds.
	Thank you.
	It was... I don't even know how long ago.
	Bugs, are you there?
	Yes, I am.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, Bugs.
	Can you...
	Bugs, you want to tell us what state you're in?
	Yeah, I'm in Texas, Art.
	Texas, alright.
	How long ago, Bugs, did you tell me originally the story of what you did?
	Gosh, Art, it's been three or four years.
	Three or four years, yeah, I thought it was quite a while.
	Time flies.
	Yeah, I'm getting older every day.
	Aren't we all?
	Alright, Bugs, I've got a real expert here, as you can hear, Robert W. Morgan.
	Good morning, Robert.
	Good morning, sir.
	How are you?
	Doing fine.
	You?
	I'm fine.
	I'm alive and merely in cat dirt.
	Well, I keep telling everybody I'm still breathing, so I guess we're all right.
	All right, fine.
	Bugs, if you would, begin at the beginning.
	And, by the way, Bugs, before we even start, why did you send me this map?
	Because my days are limited on this earth, and when I'm gone, my wife's going to call you and say, go for it.
	Really?
	And you can reveal the world of math.
	I have not been back to that place since that day.
	All right, let's start then with that day.
	Go ahead and tell it in as much detail as you want, Bugs.
	Me and two of my friends, which I'll refer to as Bird Dog and Jim, were co-bobcat hunters.
	Back in the middle 70s, those varmints was worth a lot of money.
	How much could you get for one?
	I don't know.
	Bobcat would bring anywhere from $300 to $700.
	That's not bad.
	And a coyote would bring like $40 to $50 a piece.
	And we'd go out and, to be honest with you, it was a little more than a hobby.
	We were real serious about it.
	Right.
	And we hunted many, many nights all over this country.
	Were you making your living that way then?
	Yes, I was.
	I was farming at that time.
	Gotten out of the Marines and came back home and I was farming and in that part of the year, this cotton country up here, so we didn't have much to do in January and February except fight and kind of sit around.
	And we hunted a lot in that period of time because you had to wait until the freeze come for those felts to cure.
	For some reason, I don't know, maybe somebody explained it to me.
	But an animal like a coon or a cow or whatever, if you kill them before it comes a hard freeze, when you skin them, their pelts are blue on the inside after they dry out.
	If you kill them after a hard freeze, they're white.
	Huh.
	And I have no earthly idea why that is.
	Does that sound right to you, Robert?
	Uh, yeah.
	You know, I've seen that multicoloring, but I had no idea the reason I didn't make that correlation.
	That's interesting.
	Okay.
	So anyway, you know, it was like in December, January, and February that we hunted a tremendous amount.
	Then in late February, to get into what they call a rutting season, and the animals would get mange and whatever, and they weren't worth hunting.
	So about two months you had prime time hunting.
	And me and these two guys, we hunted a lot.
	We were all free from Vietnam veterans, and very close, very close friends.
	One night, we had gone... I don't know how to tell this to keep from giving the location away.
	Whatever words you want, doesn't matter.
	If somebody knows what I'm talking about, they can find out.
	But anyway, we had hunted, back in the flatlands, so then we took this road back up north of where I'm at now.
	And it's swung around, it runs through ranch country, it's probably 25-30 miles of ranch land.
	So in other words, this location is within, what, 100 miles of where you are now?
	Oh, it's closer than that.
	Closer than that, alright.
	It's within 30 miles of where I'm at right now.
	Okay.
	So anyway, we came around and we came across this, we were going to cross this creek.
	More than a creek, but it's name is Elm Creek.
	And we were going to cross that creek.
	We'd come around back north and coming down that county road through this ranch land and stuff.
	And these ranchers loved us because we'd get rid of the coyotes that were taking their calves.
	And this had to be four, probably three, four, five in the morning.
	I don't remember the exact time.
	Come around the bend and it's bottom there just before you cross Elm Creek.
	So you're hunting with lights then?
	Oh yeah, we're using spotlights.
	Off the roof of the pickup.
	Using 500 watt halogen bulbs.
	It would light up anything from within a half a mile.
	You can see where you're standing.
	See the ground.
	Good.
	And anything with eyes lights up real well?
	The thing about it is After you hunted as much as we did, you could tell by looking at a set of eyes what they were.
	If they were a cow, they were wide apart and they were red.
	If they were a cow, they were mirror and they were more blue-red.
	I mean, it just, after a period of time, Art, you just, you knew what, you could look in that scope and you knew what was there.
	I'm not a hunter, so I just take your word for it.
	Well, it was, it was just out of the way.
	But anyway, we come around this bend and come up over this rise, and there was a wheat field out in front of us, and just before we crossed this creek, and it was a valley down there, and there's probably, oh, I'd say it's a, it has wheatland right there, and it's probably a quarter mile or so wide from that road to the creek, and it's probably a mile, about a mile long, it runs alongside that creek, and it's flat, and we come around this bend, And up and over a little hill and dropped into this valley.
	Well, just as we dropped into this valley, our lights hit.
	Picked up a set of eyes.
	And, uh, I hit the brakes.
	I was driving, and Bird Dog, he come out on the side.
	He had a 300 Weatherbly Magnum.
	And he come across the top.
	I said, what do you got?
	And he says, I don't know.
	It ain't something I ever seen before.
	Well, it just sit there.
	When you said a set of eyes, did you mean two eyes or four?
	Two eyes.
	Two eyes.
	What color were they, Bugs, if you don't mind?
	They were furious red.
	The reddest eyes I've ever seen in my life.
	Really?
	Under those lights.
	It was something.
	We knew it wasn't a deer because of the eyes.
	It was something.
	And so I pulled my rifle out.
	I used a .243, I put my scope on it, and I could see whatever it was that was crouching.
	So, Bird Dog, he got out and leaned over the hood of the pickup, where you could get him a good shot, and Jim, he come up over the top of the cab, and he, I don't even remember what kind of, I think he was using a .270, I don't remember for sure, but he lined up over the cab, and I was sitting there, And we just had both of these spotlights on this varmint there.
	And I said, I don't know what it is.
	And they don't either.
	And I said, well, it sure ain't nothing we know about it.
	Let's take it.
	And all three of us fired at the same time.
	And all of a sudden, this thing got up.
	And it must have been seven, eight foot tall at least.
	I don't know.
	Scared the heck out of us.
	Started running.
	Well, we all loaded.
	And we fired again.
	We knocked it down again.
	And then it run, I guess, it was probably 100, maybe 150 yards from the point we fired the first time until it hit the fence and went into that creek.
	And we knocked it down.
	It was probably 25, 30 yards from the fence.
	It fell into a creek?
	No, not at this point.
	And just as it was crossing the creek, we hit it again.
	Now, excuse me, was it running on four legs or two?
	It was running on two legs, just like a human being.
	Right, so it was running on two legs, something you've never seen before, but you three guys cut down on it.
	Well, we had done a shot and we did not know what it was.
	It was hunched over.
	It really wasn't using its front legs, I mean its arms, as much as it was It wasn't standing up straight.
	We still thought it was, what I thought it was at first, to be honest with you, was a bear.
	Yeah.
	And that's why we fired.
	All right, so you had three of you fired initially, right?
	Right.
	And we all fired three times.
	You guys are all non-vets, right?
	Right.
	And so you've had night combat, I'm sure.
	Right.
	Okay, so you have something getting up on two legs and running away.
	And you still cut down on it.
	Okay, I have the picture.
	Go ahead, please.
	Okay.
	Well, like I said, I originally thought it was a bear.
	I did not even... I had no idea that we had done fired on it at the point in time that it was sitting out there.
	And once we fired, I don't know, I guess we just got a little bit gung-ho and kept shooting.
	But anyway, the second time we shot it, it went over the fence.
	Well, we went and looked, and at this point in time, we were all getting scared because we thought, well, maybe this wasn't an animal.
	So, like I say, it was probably 3, 4, 5 in the morning, so we decided to drive around a while, about 5, 36.
	We went back over there, and we drove up there, and we went down, and we seen blood.
	So, we seen some tracks.
	Looked like a human foot.
	And to be honest with you, we done shot a human.
	Now I'm getting scared.
	So we go on up and start following these tracks and the creek runs all from this point probably 50, 75 yards east and then it turns back south some.
	These tracks are going down the creek and they come out and they went straight on east from where the creek turned back south. About another 25-30
	yards there was a plum thicket and we were walking there and we heard
	something in that plum thicket.
	I mean it was a growl type sound and we kind of looked at each other and so we decided well
	who goes in and see what it was. A growl? Yeah and again at this point we thought well it's a bear.
	We done found a bear up here.
	So, uh, I got elected.
	I had a .44 Magnum pistol, I climbed into the plum tickets, and I got in, oh, probably 20 feet at the most.
	And Art, this thing come up at me, I mean, it couldn't have been over I'd say six or seven feet from me.
	I didn't even see it until it was there.
	And it raised up and let out a sound that is very similar to the one you have on your tape.
	and when it did you're talking about uh as he grabs for it this one i presume
	anything like that Yeah, just the first one, not a repeat.
	Yeah, that first scream is said to be an authentic Bigfoot sound.
	Robert?
	Yeah, that's what they say.
	I have never heard them scream like that.
	I've heard them howl, I've heard them hoot, and I've heard them talk.
	I've never... You've never heard a scream like that?
	No.
	Well, first of all, I've never challenged them so they don't perceive me as a threat of any sort, so they wouldn't try to... Understood.
	Alright, so anyway, Bugs, it sounded something like that.
	It sounded similar to just the first part.
	It didn't go on and on.
	It was just one shrill.
	Right.
	And I'm basically on my all fours in a crawl position, and I just brought my 44 up, and I started plopping shells.
	And the first one I hit, I just aimed right at the chest.
	Describe what this thing, since you were seeing it now full on, what did it look like?
	Best you can.
	At that point.
	Six feet tall.
	Probably, but it was not standing up hard at that point.
	It was more in a crunched squat type position.
	I mean it come up.
	Would you describe this as human looking?
	As ape looking?
	Did it have hair covering it?
	What can you tell us about it?
	It had reddish brownish red hair.
	It had hair on the face.
	Completely covering the face.
	It's whole body was covered with hair.
	At that point, I just fired.
	Uh, it dropped down, started back up, I fired again.
	And it, it, it then kind of rocked, went backwards, and it come back up, and I fired again.
	I hit it three times with 225 grains, 44 Magnum hollow point, probably six to eight feet.
	And it was down, well, The other guys were standing guard up on top watching, and they couldn't see nothing.
	They heard me firing, and they yelled if I was alright, and I said, yeah, I got it.
	Well, they came crawling in there, and where I was at, and they seen it, so we decided we'd drag it out.
	We got to looking, and all this thing had was three holes.
	And this was a female.
	You could tell it had breasts similar to a woman.
	It had a sexual organ, and it's similar to a woman.
	Really?
	Facial features were different than a human being.
	Like I say, it was covered completely in hair.
	So we went back in and we found the male probably, I'd say, eight, ten foot behind where she was at.
	He was dead.
	He was dead?
	Yeah.
	So we drug him out.
	We laid him outside beside.
	The male was probably six to eight inches taller than the female.
	Estimating the male to probably be eight foot plus, female seven plus.
	So we looked at him.
	We got scared because like in the male he had sexual organs like a human.
	We looked at their teeth.
	They were not human, human type teeth.
	I can't say that they were an ape.
	I can't say that they were a human.
	They looked They had the features of a human overall, but the details were not.
	Okay.
	Bugs, I want you to hold on.
	We'll be back to you shortly.
	We're coming toward a break.
	And Robert W. Morgan, hold on.
	Okay, so what do you think Bugs had just shot?
	Two creatures.
	We'll get more of a description, we'll get more of a story in a moment.
	Robert W. Morgan, Bigfoot researcher, and Bugs, whose real name, by the way, I have, along with a map to the location of the bodies of whatever it is you just heard was shot.
	Oh, my.
	This is Coast to Coast to Coast AM.
	Riders on the storm.
	you This program originally aired June 5th, 2001.
	listening to a special replay of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	This program originally aired June 5, 2001.
	Please do not call.
	Want to take a ride?
	Well, call Art Bell from west of the Rockies.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First-time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	The Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First-time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
	The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	And to reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
	That would be us.
	Morning, everybody.
	I have two guests.
	Bugs, who shot a couple of creatures, and Robert W. Morgan, a Bigfoot researcher.
	And we'll get back to them in a moment and the rest of Bug's story.
	And I'm getting a lot of interesting fast blasts about this, a lot of them very judgmental.
	We'll talk about that in a moment.
	Alright, once again, I want to cover this.
	I'm getting a lot of judgmental stuff.
	Saying stuff like, you killed it after you knew it was a bear, or thought it was a bear, or...
	Did it ever occur to him that maybe he shouldn't shoot it, or at least he ought to run the other way?
	Or, my God, out-shooting animals?
	You know, a lot of judgmental stuff.
	But if I were to be judgmental, we wouldn't get the story.
	What I really want is the truth here.
	So I'm not going to sit in judgment of bugs.
	There are a lot of people responding that way, bugs, as you might imagine.
	I'm not interested so much in that as I am the truth.
	I want the truth, and if the truth is what you were doing, then that's what you were doing.
	And so I just want the truth, and you are telling us the truth, right?
	That is correct, R. I wouldn't have sent you my mail otherwise.
	No, I believe you.
	I believed you the first time, and I believe you now.
	There are a lot of people who don't like it, but this is a very important story in view of the probable physical evidence that still exists.
	You've got to remember something.
	At that point in time, we were making our living basically hunting.
	There was many a night that I went out and I made $1,000 in a night.
	Really?
	I mean, there was one night, my biggest night ever, we killed three bobcats, seven cows, and 18 coons, and we had $2,400 the next day.
	I've got you.
	So again, I'm not judging you here.
	Somebody else would like to know, they've got a five-year-old listening, and they want to know really what these creatures look like.
	Now you said not exactly human, not exactly total animal, like something in between.
	Is there any way you can describe the facial features of these creatures?
	It should be imprinted on your memory.
	Yeah.
	No, because I've never seen nothing on this earth that looks like them.
	Their heads, they have a nose similar to a human.
	Their mouths appear to be more ape.
	Their eyes are sunken back in their head more than human.
	I think if you take a human and cross it with an ape, you could probably come up with a reasonable facsimile of it.
	You know what I might suggest, Art, if you don't mind?
	Sure.
	Bugs, after we go off the air, if you would give Art your mailing address.
	Art has my mailing address, he has my phone numbers, he has everything.
	Okay, what I'd like to do is... Robert, Robert, let me just interrupt.
	I promised him.
	Anonymity, and we'll explain why here shortly.
	Oh, no, no, no, no.
	What I meant by that, what I mean is, what I do is send a copy to you, Art, and have you forward it to Bugs.
	The idea is this.
	Now, on the cover of that is one of the best artist renderings I've ever seen, because I sat with the artist myself.
	On the cover of what?
	On the cover of the concept.
	That's what I have.
	Of a cassette?
	Oh, of your cassette, all right.
	Right.
	And that way, what I'd like to do is get a reaction from Bugs, and he can tell that to you.
	That's number one.
	Number two, can I ask you something, Bugs?
	What kind of soil were these two buried in?
	Was it sandy?
	Was it dirt?
	This part of the country is sandy loam and it wasn't silk sand, but it was sandy loam
	in that particular place where we buried them.
	It was more of a gravel type sand because it did have some rock in it because that creek
	was probably, from the point we buried them, the creek kind of went south, oh, about probably
	150-200 yards and then it turned back east and over a period of time when we had a lot
	of high rains in this part of the country it would wash silt and such in there.
	Are you saying that the creek would overflow into this specific area?
	Yes.
	Oh boy.
	That'll cause a different type of decomposition.
	Did you take a GPS reading?
	A what?
	Probably not, Robert.
	I would say not.
	A GPS.
	Oh, no, huh?
	I don't have one of them animals.
	Okay, if we supplied one, would you take the readings and send those to Art?
	Well, he's given me an extremely specific map.
	Very, very specific.
	I mean, that map is detailed down to the foot.
	You would know where to dig.
	To be honest with you, this happened 30 plus years ago, and I have not Been out there since.
	Bugs?
	When you had these things lying on the ground, what did you guys talk about and why did you decide to bury them?
	We thought they could be human art.
	And we didn't want to go to jail.
	But what you just described is...
	Yeah, I understand.
	In other words, we're not enough human.
	You're looking at the sexual organs of two animals that's got identical to human veins.
	What do you think?
	Robert, with what you know about Bigfoot, do they have sexual organs, the reports you get, do they have sexual organs similar to humans?
	Oh, yes.
	So far, everything that Bugs has mentioned, It's something that I've observed myself, so yes.
	He's right on the nose.
	Thank you, Robert.
	I appreciate that fact.
	Have you ever seen, Bugs, any of the Bigfoot photos, like the Patterson film, any of those that exist?
	No, I have not.
	You haven't?
	No.
	Would somebody please send me a good Bigfoot photograph right away?
	I'm on the computer.
	I can't look at it.
	Well, it's too bad our website isn't up, because we have all of them on there.
	Oh, you do?
	Yes, and unfortunately, it's under reconstruction right at the moment.
	Okay, well, somebody will send us a photograph, depend on that.
	In the next 15 minutes or so, we'll try and get it up for the next hour.
	I will give a little more detail as to the location of this, to the people out there.
	The biggest river in the state of Texas that I guess you might say it's the Red River.
	This Elm Creek is a branch off of the Red River of the state of Texas.
	That's the only sound, actually you heard that scream sound, but other than that you heard a growling?
	I don't know if it was a growling or a rustling or something, but something got our attention Now, when they moved, you said they moved on two feet, or seemed to walk on two feet.
	Hunched over or straight up?
	It was hunched over.
	To be honest with you, when it was running, it looked like a bear.
	When it was running away from us, it looked like a bear, and I'm thinking dollar signs.
	That's why I fired.
	He was probably pretty badly injured by your first fuselage.
	And what he was doing, I think, is number one, escaping.
	Number two, he was going to the protection, hopefully, of his mate.
	And the mate may have picked him up and carried him to where you caught him.
	I know that that happened.
	It's possible because there was grass where he came out of that creek.
	And headed east there.
	Maurice in Modesto, California asks, if you were hunting for money, why didn't you all decide to bring these creatures back for a hell of a profit?
	They'd be worth a fortune.
	Yeah, and maybe go to jail for the rest of your life, too.
	Yeah.
	I think the fellow in Modesto is overlooking the fact that if these are humanoids, Then, under the American Constitution, they have civil rights, and Buggs is indeed correct.
	He could be charged with manslaughter, at least.
	You know what?
	By the time we did the original show, by the time we finished the original show, Buggs was actually going to invite me out there, and we were going to dig these bodies up.
	This was years ago.
	I'm not digging them up.
	Let me tell you something.
	I own a farm near this place.
	Yes, sir?
	And Art, I won't go out there at night, because about a year or so ago, I was out there late one evening with my dogs.
	They love to go out and swim in the creek.
	And I heard that sound, and Art, I know they still want out there, and to be honest with you, I think they're looking for me.
	Well, I'll tell you what, Bugs, we could do something.
	This is just a proposition here.
	If you would show Art where it is, and if I could be somehow involved, I would take the heat for you.
	I think I could get you off the hook on that.
	I'm not sure you could take the heat.
	In fact, Larry in Anchorage asks, is it even feasible to believe these bodies are still there?
	It's pretty rough in that kind of...
	Sandy Loam, because if you have a lot of water running through there, it's going to decompose rather rapidly.
	And this would also, the escaping gases would call in coyotes.
	And those skeletons... Oh no, we buried them probably, they had to be at least four or five foot deep, Robert.
	Oh really?
	Hey, and let me tell you something.
	Like our training, we were all Vietnam vets.
	We know how to cover our tracks.
	To be honest with you, when we walked away from Art, you couldn't tell there was a hole dug there.
	Is that right?
	It's too bad you didn't have a couple of body bags, huh?
	That would have helped.
	Because the idea is, since the... Art, you know my feeling about hunting and using guns on Bigfoot.
	However, if the deed is done, there's nothing we can do, but we wouldn't want them to die in vain.
	And if they can prove, Bugs listen to me please, if we can prove that they exist by virtue of two skeletons, then in effect you are protecting the rest of them.
	Because I'm very confident they're going to come out as humanoid.
	So an act on your part at this point in time, Would indeed help protect the rest of them.
	Bugs, what about your two friends?
	What has their attitude been since?
	You know something?
	We haven't talked in probably, I guess, 10 or 15 years.
	They both moved away from here.
	I think they both had kind of the same feeling I did.
	It was time to back up and go.
	That you might have killed something.
	A human.
	Or something.
	I mean, it wasn't that it bothered us that we killed humans, because we had done that before.
	You know, I mean, to take out a person, that was no big deal to us.
	But that was in war, and they were armed.
	That's right.
	Totally different thing.
	Totally different situation than what we were in there today, at that time.
	Yeah, you were doing your duty, pal.
	I know, I understand that.
	But then, you know, when we got into this situation, I would not have shot the female once I saw her, except I feared for my own life.
	Sure.
	Oh, you had right to there.
	She would have attacked you.
	Bugs, what about smell?
	Did you smell anything?
	Did these creatures smell?
	Art, I can't remember.
	I really can't remember that.
	Well, if it had been really distinct, I'm sure you would have.
	Yeah, it would probably have... I tried to block a lot of this out of my memory.
	And it's tough trying to draw it back up, because I knew what I had done, I realized what we had done, and I realized that there might be consequences.
	And the only reason I sent you this map and everything is because for three years I have never had one phone call.
	You knew who I was, you knew where I was, you knew my phone number and everything, yet nobody ever got it.
	So I trust you.
	Uh, and you can trust me, um, although I'm not sure I'm happy I have the map.
	If, if you dug the hole four to five feet deep, shot them at four in the morning, drove around, shot more, they would have been digging and burying in the daylight, correct?
	Right.
	This was, uh, it, the sun come up probably, I'd say around six o'clock, 630.
	It was daylight, the sun wasn't up, but it was daylight enough for us to see.
	And the, when we found them, We're probably talking about the sun was just ready to peak over the top of the hill.
	We're talking probably 6.30, 6.45, maybe 7 o'clock.
	And after we found them and drug them out and everything, we're talking probably 8 o'clock.
	And it don't take very long to dig when you're scared.
	And probably within an hour, we had dug a hole and put them back.
	And we'd left.
	Did you bury them in one hole or separate holes?
	One.
	On top of each other.
	Yeah, that would make sense.
	After this was over, and they were buried, did the three of you talk?
	Yeah.
	We swore ourselves to secrecy, Art.
	You swore each other to secrecy?
	Yeah.
	Never reveal it to anybody.
	Except for years later, many years later, you went on the radio with me and you told this story.
	Well, when you get to be old, I guess you start thinking about some things you did in your life that I need to make some corrections about.
	That you weren't that happy about, huh?
	No.
	That was one of the few things that I did in my life that I'm still scared about today, Art.
	You feel guilty about it?
	Oh yeah.
	Tremendous amount of guilt.
	Because I don't know, I'm out of fucking innocent human beings' lives.
	You know, maybe for a hunter it's not the same way, Bugs, but when you look into a human's eye, you can see an intelligence.
	I mean, you know you're dealing with an intelligent creature, and I don't know if you had enough eye contact before, or it all happened too fast in all probability, but I wonder if you had a chance to look into their eyes and whether you discerned anything from that, whether you were dealing with An intelligence or something that was about to kill you?
	No Art, to be honest with you, it was just a quick knee-jerk reaction and it was fire because I knew that I was in danger and I knew she was fixing to come after me.
	And I knew it was a matter of a millisecond.
	I either had to fire or I was gone.
	And I didn't hesitate.
	Yeah, obviously, with the other one dead, I would think that creature would have killed you pretty quick.
	If it could have.
	It could have.
	Believe you me, as big as this thing was, I'm six foot one.
	There's a lot of people that think that Bigfoot is some sort of paranormal creature.
	But it sounds to me like the creatures were real dead.
	Animals and mammals and humans who get shot are dead.
	Nothing paranormal about that?
	No, this was an animal.
	They never disappeared on you?
	No.
	Nothing ever estranged you?
	No.
	What about blood?
	Red blood just like ours.
	A lot of it?
	Quite a bit.
	Quite a bit.
	Especially hers.
	I mean his.
	He had a big pool where he was hit.
	Near the heart area, I would assume.
	I imagine his pool of blood, I'm trying to remember now, but I would say it was probably where he was laying and he bled probably a foot and a half circle diameter.
	So, everybody swore everybody else to secrecy.
	uh... forever on this matter
	uh...
	robert if it happened that long ago and assuming that the the the
	the remains not been washed away what might we expect to find if
	anything Well, you could find probably quite a bit of the skeleton.
	Most importantly for us, I think it would be finding the teeth, because within the teeth, No matter, even after many years, you can find viable DNA.
	DNA?
	Yes.
	Alright, well I've heard that they found hair recently, and they do a DNA test on it, and it comes back as hominoid of some sort, unidentifiable.
	What do we get from that?
	In other words, if you have a hair sample, and they say, well, yes, it was some sort of mammal or hominid in some way, but it's not identifiable, and that's the end of the story.
	Right.
	That happened to us.
	We had that in 1974.
	And we had that also in 1972.
	Hair tells you quite a bit about the DNA, but it still will not convince science.
	Now, if we can get a complete skeleton, Especially if we have two, male and female.
	If there's sufficient bones there, they can be reconstructed, and they can provide the proof that the Bigfoot, A, does exist, B, well, whether or not they are humanoid, or whether they're a ponsoni, or if they're human or ape.
	Robert, do you believe bugs?
	Everything that I have heard Bugs say has what I would call the ring of truth.
	we'll be right back music playing
	music playing music playing
	music playing This program originally aired June 5th, 2001.
	Please do not call.
	Wanna take a ride?
	Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	800-618-8255, east of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
	The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1222.
	seven two seven twelve ninety five and the call on the phone for the international line call
	your agency operator
	and have them dial eight hundred eight nine three zero nine zero three
	this is coast to coast a m with art bell from the kingdom of nine i think loves is exactly
	who he sounds like he is i thought that the first time i interviewed him
	second time and now uh...
	same deal folks I think he is exactly who he appears to be.
	And I think the story is absolutely true.
	My guests include Robert W. Morgan, a Bigfoot researcher and bugs who killed two creatures in the wilds of Texas.
	And it may well be they are Bigfoot.
	Or Bigfoots.
	I still haven't quite figured that out.
	At any rate, My guest will be back in a moment, and within about 10 minutes, we're going to have some photos up on the website.
	Some real quick ones for Bugs to take a look at.
	I'm Art Bell.
	We're only going to have Bugs here for a little while longer, so on top of him seeing the photographs, I want to ask him a few more questions with Robert before we lose him.
	I know you've got a really hard day today, didn't you Bugs?
	Oh yeah.
	I've got a couple questions I need to ask Robert.
	Alright.
	Robert, can these creatures know who I am and what I did?
	Yes.
	The reason why I say that is because, like I said, it's been six months.
	It was last summer.
	I was at my farm late one evening and it just got dark.
	I have a creek that runs into this creek that I'm talking about.
	And I heard, it was not a coat, that howl.
	And it just made the hair on my back of my neck stand up, and I just, I just felt in my heart that this had to be one of these creatures.
	Was it the same kind of howl, or roughly the same?
	As what?
	As what you heard originally?
	No, no.
	This was not similar to what you have on tape.
	No, no, no, no.
	To what you heard originally.
	I don't know Art.
	I don't know.
	I just can't place... How many statute miles are you from the site?
	Well, that creek is approximately six miles.
	About six miles away?
	Yeah.
	Okay, now that's going to sound like a strange question.
	Does the water flow upstream or downstream from where you are?
	Downstream.
	Downstream?
	It flows down into this place.
	Had you hunted that area before?
	Oh yeah.
	Okay, so they could have identified you, and believe me, six miles is a Sunday stroll for these people.
	So more than likely, they have identified you.
	Yes, you're probably right.
	Am I in any danger?
	I would be very careful.
	Am I in any danger?
	It's been how many years?
	This is 1976.
	Right.
	Uh, it's possible, but probably, I would say that, you know, I'm going to sound very weird here for a second.
	If you would go out on the edge of that and hold your hands open and open to your side, where they can see you have no weapon whatsoever, and this is going to sound strange to you, talk to them.
	Just talk, and whenever you have a feeling they're out there, go out and just let yourself go.
	Tell them what you think and what you made a mistake.
	It doesn't hurt anyone.
	It could help you, and God only knows, they might understand.
	I don't know.
	I certainly would try it.
	I don't even own a weapon anymore.
	After this happened, I quit hunting.
	Like I say, I couldn't even pull a trigger.
	Now I even probably defend myself.
	Bugs, I have a question for you.
	Chris in Medford, Oregon asks, I was wondering how heavy these creatures were, and he thinks you can judge this because you all had to lift them to bury them, right?
	Right.
	I'm going to say they probably weighed 350 pounds.
	Oh my.
	In that area.
	Oh my.
	It was all we could do to move them.
	That's a lot of body mass.
	Tell me about it.
	Dead body is the heaviest thing on earth.
	Somebody else says, and maybe this isn't true, or maybe it certainly is, the only thing missing is the grief that he hides, that he has nightmares of killing the female.
	Yeah, I did for a long time, Art.
	I did for a long time.
	I woke up at night, again in that position, firing my weapon.
	I mean I went through some hairy things in Vietnam.
	I was with First Marine Recon in Vietnam.
	I did a lot of larks.
	21 days, 12 days.
	I know what it's all about.
	That don't bother me.
	This thing with her bothers me worse of all of them because that's the closest I've ever come to death.
	Yeah, I hear you.
	You described the fact that the imprint of the feet seemed like a human footprint.
	Was it bigger than a usual human footprint?
	Judging by the weight, I would think it would be.
	Oh, yes.
	I would say... Michael Jordan has to have size 18 shoes or what basketball player.
	I would say it's probably in that size.
	Uh, there is one thing that I've never revealed to anybody about the foot of this animal.
	What?
	And that's why I'm very reluctant.
	A lot of these people talk about Bigfoot and stuff, but there is something about their feet that is different than anybody else.
	Robert should know what I'm talking about.
	Yeah, I think I do.
	Well, let's not have Robert say.
	You say.
	What?
	Six toes.
	Oh, what?
	Six toes.
	Six toes on both of the creatures?
	Both of the creatures.
	That's an anomaly, I think.
	I think that's an anomaly.
	But I'm going to take a wild guess here.
	You must be within 100 miles of the Arkansas border.
	No.
	And the reason I say, well, in that case, there was a family in Arkansas, a Bigfoot, that did have a six-toed uh... genetic uh... code okay and uh... but and they may have spread into uh... eastern texas uh... that is possible but that is not the norm all right i'll tell you what you basically i am i am in a texas panhandle and uh... like i said it's great don't say anymore bugs don't say anymore yeah i don't think so texas panhandle is close enough and uh... everything everything you know
	Red River runs from Arkansas up to Texas.
	It's the border of Texas, Oklahoma.
	So I'm assuming that these animals come from that direction.
	Where they were going, I have no idea.
	Bugs, you said that in the light, the eyes were red.
	In the front lights, yes.
	What about when they were dead?
	Black.
	Black.
	I couldn't see any pupils or anything like that, just black eyes.
	A little larger than human eyes.
	Okay.
	You know, Bugs, I'm very sorry.
	I'm not a hunter myself.
	I used to hunt years and years ago, but I came through the same transition that you did.
	I don't want to see anything die anymore.
	I have no time for it.
	But at the same time, I must say, honestly, I'm so pleased that you contacted Art Mill.
	Bugs, um, you said you had a computer there?
	Yes.
	Go right now to your, is it?
	No, I have your website up.
	Oh, you do?
	Under what's new you'll see the first item now, instead of cloud vortexes, Bigfoot images.
	Click on that.
	No, I've got, let me refresh.
	Refresh, refresh.
	And then go to what's new and you'll see Bigfoot images.
	Okay.
	You see them?
	They're coming up.
	There's four of them there right now.
	My listener is doing me a favor in getting these images up quickly.
	Some are drawings.
	I think everybody else is at the website at the same time as me.
	Two of them are, looks like at least one is a photograph.
	Two may be photographs and two are drawings.
	This first one coming up, the hair's the wrong color.
	Okay.
	But what about the general... Was it more, was it closer to a human than that?
	Oh yeah, this looks like an ape here.
	No.
	This is, no, this first picture, of course, like I say, it's loading up slow, all I've seen now is the eyes.
	But the eyes were sunken in, but the, above the eyes, I guess you'd call the eyebrow area, it was flatter than that.
	Okay.
	The nose was totally different.
	The nose was more human.
	Okay.
	The mouth is very, very similar.
	Okay, what about you, Robert?
	Do you have internet access where you are?
	No, I'm on the line that I usually use.
	What I'm going to do is I'm going to send a copy of the drawing down to you, Art, and you can forward it.
	I can do that.
	Just give it a few minutes, Bugs, and the rest of these will get it.
	Okay, the third picture, Lark, looks just about like it.
	Oh, really?
	The third one down?
	Yep.
	All right.
	Very, very close.
	This appears to be an actual photograph.
	Actually, to be honest with you, it's a photograph, and it may be a photograph taken from the Patterson film.
	I'm not sure.
	The third one doesn't look like that second one.
	The second one, I mean, it's almost a dead ringer.
	Oh, you're saying the third one?
	I mean, the fourth picture does not look like it, but the third picture is almost a dead ringer.
	Number three is in an oval.
	Yeah.
	And you say that's almost a dead ringer for you?
	Yeah, almost identical.
	Boy, I wish you had internet access, Robert.
	Yeah, unfortunately I'm talking on the line.
	I'll tell you what, Robert.
	Why don't I do this?
	If I were to drop you off the line for a few minutes, could you get to my internet site?
	I can certainly try.
	Okay, remember now, you'll be able to get on, no problem, www.arpel.com.
	It'll be under What's New, which is the first item on the left when you load the website.
	It'll say Bigfoot Images, and because we've got a hit here, because he says it's like number three, Uh, if you would go down, uh, and take a look at number three, I will call you back in about eight minutes.
	Okay, I'll get on it right now.
	Alright, uh, let me see if I can do this properly.
	Okay, let's see.
	And I think that I've done it.
	Let me see if I can bring back Bugs.
	Bugs, are you there?
	Yeah, I'm here.
	Okay, good.
	All right, Bugs, so number three is pretty close, huh?
	Very, very close, Mark.
	The only thing about number three that I can see the difference between it and what my recollection is, is the eyebrow area was a little less protruding.
	Otherwise the head, the mouth is identical, the nose is identical.
	Wow.
	And what picture is this, a actual picture?
	I believe, and I'm not certain, but I believe, and now Robert will be able to tell us, he's the expert on this, but I think this might be from Patterson Film, I'm not sure.
	Okay.
	Alright, this was sent in Just by a listener, but it doesn't matter.
	Obviously, I would say it's a real photograph that we're looking at.
	And judging from this, now was there any, other than the sex organs, was there any discernible difference between the male and the female?
	That was it, Art.
	The male was a little taller, like I say, probably 6-8 inches taller and probably weighed, I'd say, maybe 30 pounds more, maybe 40-something in that neighborhood.
	Uh, they were both extremely muscular.
	Uh, they didn't appear to have any, uh, what I would call human-type fat on them.
	And their, uh, their abdomen area of the mid-age bulge, whatever you want to call it, they, they, they appeared to be, uh, just Very, very muscular type people.
	I won't say people, but animals.
	I still kind of feel like they're people, Art.
	Really?
	Really?
	Yeah.
	Um, you, uh, in sending me the map, Bugs, you said that you're not going to be around
	Well, I'm not going to be around forever either.
	And I don't know what to do with this.
	I don't know what's right to do with it.
	I don't know if it would result in both of us getting in trouble, even today.
	I'm not sure.
	Well, if you feel that you don't need to have it, then burn it.
	I have a copy.
	My wife has a copy.
	She has the original.
	And everything we faxed to you.
	And what did you tell her about this?
	When you gave her her copy of the map, what did you tell her?
	She was in shock and awe when I first revealed this because she knew nothing about it and we'd been married for years.
	She knew nothing about it until the night I talked to you on the radio.
	Oh.
	Then you almost had a pretty big talk about it afterwards, huh?
	Oh, yeah.
	She wanted to go see the place and I said, we ain't going over there.
	There is no way I will go back to where that area is.
	Why?
	I don't know, Art, but something scares me about it.
	Did you end up with any of the creature's blood on your clothing, shoes, whatever?
	Not that I'm aware of, Art.
	Because blood too has DNA in it.
	I know.
	It's possible in moving them and everything that we did, but it wasn't something we noticed.
	And my wife wouldn't have said anything because, you know, we handle coats and Bobcats and stuff like that.
	We got blood on them.
	I hear you.
	Mike in San Angelo, Texas, down there in Texas, where he asks, the hands, the feet, would you describe them as leathery?
	Were the nails thick?
	Were the ears big?
	Was anything weird about the teeth?
	I mean, did you think you were looking at a meat eater or a vegetarian?
	Any guesses?
	I would say just offhand, probably a vegetarian.
	Again, Art, I don't know.
	We're talking about a total time of me looking at these animals and burying them.
	About how long?
	An hour, hour and a half, two hours.
	As you guys try to figure out what to do, huh?
	Oh, yeah.
	Well, when you want to do, we went and got the shovels and started digging.
	Yeah.
	What about...
	The hands and feet, he's asking, were they leathery feeling?
	Can you remember any texture?
	Can you remember anything about it?
	Art, I can't remember other than their hands.
	I don't know how to describe them.
	It would be like somebody that had a pair of cowhide gloves on with hair around them and in their palm area just skin type showing.
	Kind of, I guess you would say a leathery type hands.
	And their feet, bottom of their feet were the same way.
	The only thing, like I say, the hands and the bottom of their feet were probably the only thing that wasn't covered with hair.
	And their face, their face didn't, it wasn't completely covered with hair, but then again... Pretty close to how much hair there was there in number three?
	Yep.
	Very similar.
	Very similar.
	Since that's happened, since you've been on my show, The original time you appeared on my program.
	Have you told anybody else about this?
	Yeah, there's one other person in this world who knows about it because he had an encounter here a while back with one.
	He decided he was going to follow his uncle and be a great white hunter.
	One night he come across one about, oh, I guess it had been a month and a half, two months ago.
	About, oh, I'd say 40 miles from where this happened.
	And he'd come home telling me about it about three days later.
	He was scared.
	And then I told him.
	And he said, that's exactly what I thought.
	And I said, well, why didn't you shoot it?
	He said, man, I didn't know what it was.
	I said, I got the hell out of there.
	Pardon my French.
	You know, I imagine when you think back on your encounter, you probably wish you'd done that too.
	But by the time you'd shot the thing initially, so many shots, I guess you pursue it.
	You don't leave an animal out to die.
	No, you're right.
	If it's wounded, you want to put it out of its misery.
	And again, Art, we thought it was a bear.
	Just to be perfectly honest with you, I mean... Yeah, even up until the moment that you shot the final creature dead, you still really thought it was a bear, didn't you?
	Oh, yeah.
	Yeah, and I thought it was a wounded bear in the bushes, and that's what we were laughing about.
	who's going into the thicket to get the bear.
	How'd you get elected?
	I was the only one. I had the most high-powered pistol.
	Bird Dog, he had a .357 and Jim, he had a .22 and I had a .44 Magnum Ruger.
	So they said, well, you got the big gun.
	You go in.
	I said, well, I wanted to go.
	By the way, I can hear something creaking, and I imagine that's your easy chair you're rocking back in, if I had to guess.
	Right, right, it is.
	All right, folks, hold on.
	We won't hold you too much longer.
	Just a couple more questions.
	We'll get Robert W. back on with us in a moment.
	A lot of people say that's what bugs could do.
	They make millions now.
	I just sense truth about this story, and I don't know why.
	I always have, since I first heard it.
	I sensed it was the truth, and I think that now.
	Anyway, for those of you checking it out, It's number three, the third photograph.
	I'm going to see it.
	What a classy girl like you for a poor boy like me.
	What's wrong in America?
	You'd think good people would have had enough of silly love songs.
	So look around me and I see it isn't so.
	Some people want to fill the world with silly love songs.
	But what's wrong with that?
	I'd like to know.
	Cause here I go.
	From the Costa Costam Archives, you're listening to the Best of Art Bell.
	This program originally aired June 5th, 2001.
	Please do not call.
	Wanna take a ride?
	Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	618-8255, east of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First-time callers may rechart at area code 775-727-1222 or call the wildcard line at
	775-727-1295.
	To talk with Art on the toll free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	It certainly is.
	My guests are Robert W. Morgan, who is now back after having seen the photograph himself.
	And Bugs, who will remain identified as far as location beyond that which he's already given.
	And certainly not his real name.
	At his request, I will keep it secret forever, if necessary.
	And I guess that's what we're going to talk about in a moment.
	All right, Robert W. Morgan back and Bugs, and we're not going to have Bugs for much
	longer, so just a couple more questions, Bugs, and any Robert might have.
	You've given me a very detailed map, but Todd in Lakeside wants to know, could you actually walk to the spot where you buried them, no problem?
	Yep.
	I believe I could.
	But you wouldn't?
	No, I don't want to go back out there.
	Not even with myself and or Robert Morgan?
	I'll get you close, but I ain't going back out there.
	Two questions from Ian in Charleston, South Carolina.
	How many times did you have to shoot the creature?
	A question I think you already answered.
	I think we fired three times at the first one, and I know I fired three times at the female.
	Did it emit any kind of sound while the other one was shot?
	Was there any reaction?
	Or was it too hard to see?
	We did not see the female until I went into the thicket.
	Okay, I'm told that you should one more time refresh your computer screen because there are now a total of six images up there.
	Too bad for you, Robert.
	Anyway, listen, Robert, you got to see the third one down, which he says is pretty doggone close to what he saw.
	Yeah, that's a good one.
	There's nothing wrong with that.
	You think that one's fairly representative of Of what a Bigfoot would look like?
	Yes.
	Yes.
	It's very, very close.
	Very close.
	Alright, Robert.
	Do you have anything?
	If you would take a hare on number 4 and darken it a bit.
	That would be close.
	That would be the color of the hare.
	It's a little too red.
	It's more brown than it is.
	Than that red.
	Alright.
	I'll give you a little hint on that.
	The younger ones have the reddish hair.
	The older they get, the darker they get.
	And then when they get into old age, of course, they become grizzled just like us.
	Okay.
	Neither of these two.
	The fifth picture, it's hard to tell.
	I can't see facial features or anything.
	The sixth picture doesn't even look like nothing like what I saw.
	So it's number three all the way?
	Yeah, it's got number three.
	Number three is almost identical.
	All right, good.
	Good.
	But I'm going to send you one by way of art that I think you're going to say, oh my god, that's him.
	OK.
	All right, Robert, last chance.
	Any other questions for Bugs?
	No other questions, except that I will provide through you, Art, and if anything I can do to assist either of you or both of you, I'd be more than happy to.
	I'm sorry that it happened.
	He's obviously not going back there.
	Well, believe me, Bugs, it's hard to say, but if I went along, I think you'd be fairly safe.
	I wonder if we don't identify bugs, Robert, and we were to go there, or you were to go there, what our liability would be?
	None.
	None.
	There would be no problem whatsoever.
	But the problem is, everybody in this part of the world knows who I am.
	Well, we needn't divulge where we got them.
	Simple as that.
	I guess you've thought over the years you'd face maybe jail time for this, huh?
	Right, right.
	You would never be convicted of first degree anything, because there wasn't.
	But I'm 56 years old now.
	We're almost the same age.
	I'll be 56 June 17th.
	Yes, but you know what you did, Al, was not, you did not know it was a Bigfoot.
	You did not fire on it as a Bigfoot.
	I don't see, if you had known what it was, and you fired, that's one thing.
	The first one that you fired on was at such a distance, and it was an irrational, or not an irrational, irresponsible act, but it's done.
	What's done is done.
	Secondly, you did the other one in self-defense, and I doubt that anyone He's going to blame you for that.
	I'm sorry that it happened simultaneously, but I think the furtherance for science, and also the furtherance for the protection of the children of these two adults that are dead, they could benefit by the protection that this discovery could give them.
	Because if they are humanoid, we can do a hell of a lot more than what we're doing right now.
	They're in imminent danger, despite the laws that I've been able to initiate.
	It does happen.
	And, you know, education and intelligent application of law is what we need.
	Well, Robert, I have one question I would like to ask you.
	You mentioned Arkansas.
	There was creatures down in there.
	Is it possible, because this happened, I would say, somewhere around the middle of February, Is it possible that these animals, or whatever they are, migrate from that area to Colorado?
	Bugs, they're all over.
	They're here in Montana, they're in Florida, they're in Ohio, they're in Pennsylvania, they're in New York State, upstate New York, they're in Washington, Oregon.
	The only place I've never had a real report is in Pahrump, Colorado.
	Say what?
	Say what?
	In any case, they're all over the place, and they do move quite a bit.
	They do have, unfortunately, predictable, to some degree, movement patterns, but this is by virtue of weather and food availability.
	But they do move quite a bit, and what you have there are probably uh... offshoots from the washington mountains
	uh... and and and and that area also i'm not say in uh... new mexico and i was in new mexico you also
	have a very hand in the
	mow the unrun are in the perry's on a they're there also what they did
	that's what i was wondering if they because if you take a map and you followed the red river
	you know it would lead from arkansas
	in early to new mexico and i was just wondering if this was possibility
	that this was a rapid animals travel and they go
	out in the winter and and don't know what the summer Well, they have their own routes, but they don't necessarily have to go by virtue of the weather.
	They're perfectly adapted, unlike you and I.
	They don't have to worry about the weather.
	When they're cold, in fact, the colder it gets, I think, in a lot of ways, the better off they are.
	The ones that I've encountered in Florida are much smaller and thinner and scrawnier.
	Not anywhere near as healthy as the ones that I've seen up in the northern states.
	That's a good question.
	Did these animals appear to you, other than being dead, to be healthy specimens?
	Oh, yes.
	Very healthy.
	They were very muscular.
	I would say they were younger animals than older ones, because they just appeared that they were younger.
	I hate to make this a, I don't know the word I'm looking for, but the equation to this to what I would say in a human factor, and this is the one thing that scared us, and I don't want anybody to take this wrong, but you have seen mentally retarded people They're facial features and everything.
	That's what we felt we had done shot was some mentally retarded people that was living in the wild.
	Yeah.
	Very brutal facial features that are almost Neanderthalic, and a little bit more so, I think.
	But, gee, I wish I could reach out and help you somehow.
	I really do.
	Let me be very straight on a few things here.
	Number one, Bugs, you don't want your identity revealed, right?
	Okay.
	Number two, you don't want to go back to the spot yourself.
	Nope.
	I'll take you within, uh, I can take you up on a hill and show you where it's at.
	Within probably, I would say, maximum of a quarter to half a mile away.
	But I just, I have, there is something inside of me that just will not let me go back to that spot.
	Yeah, I don't, I don't think I blame you.
	And that's where you gave up hunting too.
	All right.
	Listen, Bugs.
	Thank you, my friend, for coming back on here tonight.
	Well, you're welcome, Art, and I appreciate it.
	I would like to explain one reason why I'm doing this.
	It is because of you and what you have done for all the people in this United States.
	You are the one person that brings forth the stuff that everybody else laughs at.
	Someday, when I'm gone, you'll get to laugh at them because you'll have the proof.
	Thank you, Bugs.
	Good night, Robert.
	Good night, Bugs.
	Good luck to you.
	Thank you.
	Bye-bye.
	There we go, Robert.
	Yeah.
	All right.
	So then we're left with, I'm really left with a burden in a way because he doesn't want
	to go back.
	He'll get us close.
	He doesn't want to be identified, and damn it, he left me a map.
	Yeah, well, I can't blame him for that, but his reactions and everything else shows a lot of humanity was brought out in this guy, and he realizes what he's done.
	And he's really, really sorry for it.
	I believe he's exactly who he sounds like he is.
	Simple as that.
	Simple as that.
	I've thought it all these years and I think it even more so now.
	But, Gotti, you know, if we could get out there and get these bones before they're totally dissolved and the rodentia gets to them and everything like that.
	Well, if you're out of that deep, maybe.
	Yeah, it's possible.
	If we could just do it and get it on film and everything like that, I think that what has happened, you know, it's a tragedy.
	It's a tragedy on all sides, all the way around.
	But it sounds like we have an honest guy.
	He knew what the hell he was doing.
	And I hate to see him suffering like this, because he is.
	He's obviously carrying a lot of guilt.
	And I wish we could reach out and help him in some way.
	Well, you start changing, you know, as you get older.
	How old are you now?
	Sixty-six.
	Oh, you're sixty-six.
	You know better than we do.
	Hell, I'm meaner than a cat.
	I bicycle, I run, I fight, you name it.
	I do it all.
	Age, in a lot of ways, I think, is a mindset.
	I've been blessed, or whatever you want to call it, with absolute perfect health, and I'm as strong as I am now as I was when I was thirty-five.
	Absolutely.
	Well, this is where wisdom comes, you know.
	And it's too bad it comes so late.
	And this man, obviously, you know, going through Vietnam, that was a very, very tough place to be.
	Yes, it was.
	And the one thing that I wish I could have asked him, and it just, is the color of his eyes, he said, was red when he got him in the light.
	With the light on him, yeah.
	Yeah, my question was, was going to be, what were the lights of Charlie Viet Cong at night?
	Because that should have given him a clue, right there.
	But, you know, these guys were hunting.
	They had reverted way back to the early days of America, you know?
	That's how a lot of guys made a living, and that's what they did.
	Yeah, early on, when he was telling the story, early on, I have a computer board I watch here with Fast Bless, and they were coming in.
	They were very judgmental.
	Oh, yeah, sure.
	As you can imagine.
	But, I mean, look.
	You could sit here and whore judgmentally over what he did, and it's not going to change anything.
	I wanted to get the story as it was laid out, and that's how he gave it to us, right, wrong, or whatever.
	He showed so much courage, much more than the average person, to come forward and to tell you about this, and then provide you with the wherewithal To reveal this, and that way these deaths won't be for nothing.
	Well, he asked you, I thought, a question that caused you to pause a moment.
	He asked if he was in danger now, or he could be from the family that's left.
	If there was more of a family, he seems to think that there's more of them out there.
	With what you know about Bigfoot, would it have that kind of Memory or would it act instinctually or something in between?
	And that says a lot about what Bigfoot is and isn't.
	No, I think they're extremely intelligent.
	I have had them give me gifts when they happen to have seen me stop.
	One time I stopped.
	This is an example.
	One time I stopped in the middle of the woods with a young boy that was with us and he was just fiddling around and he found a dead turkey.
	So, you know, wild turkey.
	So I knelt beside the kid, and I showed him the turkey feathers.
	When we got back to camp, and after that, we were always given gifts of turkey feathers that would be inserted into the ground a good inch to an inch and a half.
	This is reaching out, you know?
	This is saying, oh, wow, you guys are interested in that.
	Here, let me show you.
	Here, let me give you a gift.
	Now, this doesn't come from some animal.
	No.
	No, no.
	And I think that what had happened is probably they tracked him, or maybe there were others in the area, although I kind of doubt it, because they would have attacked him.
	But they identified him, and they've been watching him, and I think they're pretty much sympathetic in a lot of ways.
	God only knows.
	I don't know.
	I do know that if we were able to get down there, I think that we could go to that site.
	If, unless they went back, Here's a question that just came to my mind.
	Unless the family of the Bigfoot went back and removed those bodies, it is possible.
	They do bury their own, and they have a very specific way of burying them.
	When that one rose up, Robert, if he had not killed it that instant, it would have killed him?
	Probably.
	Yes.
	Because, obviously, the male was either dead or dying.
	And had gone to the female, or the female had picked him up and carried him and took him into deep bushes.
	This is absolute textbook.
	Typical of what they do?
	Sure.
	It's textbook.
	And when they get hunted, that's exactly what they do.
	So here this guy comes along and he comes in after them.
	Her mate is dead.
	And the first thing she did was a growl or shout at him, trying to get him to back off.
	And then she rose up, and of course, out of... This is a combat-trained individual.
	He's not going to back off.
	He's going to do what he has to do.
	And everything he said had a lot of ring of truth to it.
	So, if I were him, I wouldn't... It's sorry that it happened, but my God, let's close the chapter by not letting these people die for nothing.
	That would be the tragedy, because it's going to happen again.
	Robert, what do we know about these creatures?
	What are these creatures?
	You know, over the years, I've done so many programs, and I range from thinking they're part of the paranormal, kind of disputed by what we just heard.
	I mean, if they were paranormal, they'd probably just blink out, or some who knows what.
	And if they're not paranormal, and they're real, and what we seem to see when we look at photographs of them, then what are they?
	I think they are an ancestor of humanity, of what the homo sapiens today.
	We have this problem, we have this blind spot, Art, and that is it was caused by our religions that told us that 6,000 years ago the earth was created and we were put on it.
	And ever since that point, And it was created for us.
	We have the arrogance to believe that this entire world and all the animals and bugs and all this stuff was created for us.
	That all of this was created, that there is no such thing as evolution.
	Exactly.
	That we were just plopped down here, Adam and Eve, by the apple, into the woods.
	Now the question comes, and here's where they can debate this forever, this may have been the car that was selected by our maker to insert the soul.
	We're getting a little esoteric there, but that is one way of looking at it, perhaps.
	The original car?
	Like a Model C or something?
	Exactly.
	These are the people that were perfectly adapted.
	He doesn't have to worry about them getting cold or hot.
	They take care of themselves.
	They don't have to plow.
	They don't have to plant.
	They don't have to take vaccinations.
	They're doing fine.
	We, on the other hand, everybody talks about us evolving.
	Hell, we've devolved.
	Take our clothes off of us and throw us outside and find out how long we last.
	You know, for us, we have to have another animal's skin on our feet.
	For God's sake, the leather on our shoes.
	That's absolutely true.
	You know, we have devolved when it came to the earth.
	Here these people are, the Bigfoot people.
	They're perfectly adapted.
	They have the linguistic, you know, in that audio cassette that you have from Morland, that we have actual imitation of verbiage.
	Otherwise, they have the Hollywood bond.
	Do you have that, Robert, do you have that handy?
	No, I don't.
	I don't have it right here.
	Ron Moorhead.
	I can send you.
	I can have one.
	I was just hoping you could play something from it.
	No, I don't.
	Well, you know, what was it?
	Two years ago, we played it for you.
	I remember that.
	That's right.
	But this audience, most of them would not have heard it.
	All right, listen, Robert.
	Hold on.
	When we come back, we'll try and find out all we can about Bigfoot.
	We'll pick Robert's brain, then we'll open the lines for a while and let you ask questions.
	Pretty serious night.
	And somebody asked, why am I smiling with that map?
	Well, because I was on camera.
	That's why.
	We'll be back.
	I know you can see me now here's a surprise.
	I know you can see me now here's a surprise.
	The sun is setting like molasses in the sky.
	I know you can see me now here's a surprise.
	Peace.
	you I know that you have cause there's magic in my eyes.
	I can see for miles and miles and miles and miles.
	And I'm gonna be a man If you think that I don't know about the little tricks you
	play I'll never see you when you deliberately put me in my way
	Well, here's a broken view, you're gonna choke on a tooth You're gonna lose that smile because of the wild
	I could see for miles and miles I could see for miles and miles
	to a special replay of Coast to Coast AM with Arkbell.
	This program originally aired June 5th, 2001.
	Please do not pause.
	Wanna take a ride?
	Well, call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033. First-time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
	The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	and the return of the people.
	I had no idea that Bugs was going to send me a map, number one.
	Number two, I have his real name, and I've had it for years, and I've kept the secret for years.
	And I will continue to do so.
	here's my dilemma i uh...
	have no idea boggs was going to send me a map
	number one uh... number two i have his uh... real name and i've had it
	for years and i've kept the secret for years
	and i will continue to do so uh... so here's my dilemma i have no illusions uh... about what
	to this point is probably protected me from getting some sort of subpoena
	And I'm sure it's the fact that people disbelieve.
	You know, they disbelieve, which maybe works for me in this case.
	Maybe you can understand my thinking about this.
	The authorities go, you know, we've got a lot more important things to do.
	Good.
	However, if I were to go down there, And I were to dig up the area, and I were to find, actually it's identified precisely on the map, and I were to find bones, and I were to find the remnants of something that had been hominoid.
	I have no illusions about what would happen.
	The police would move in.
	There would be homicide detectives.
	I would be under incredible pressure to turn over the information on the ID, which I can't do.
	I promised I wouldn't, and I won't.
	I can't really, without permission, turn it over to anybody else because Bugs entrusted me.
	I probably ought to burn the map.
	Really.
	When you get right down to it.
	I mean, I'll talk to Robert about this in a moment, but I have no illusions about what would occur if I were to go down there.
	Assuming that I found bones or remnants of these creatures, the police would be there.
	The police would be there.
	I would be questioned probably intensely by the police and I'd probably get into a terrible row with them because they would be demanding the full information that I have.
	So on the one hand, let me preface this by saying that I absolutely believe his story.
	Believe as you will, I believed it when I first heard it, I believe it now.
	So I think it's true.
	I think the can of worms, along with whatever's down there, would be opened up big time.
	If I were to go down there and dig up these bones, or whatever's left, probably bones at this stage, maybe skulls and teeth, maybe enough, but it would look somewhat human, and then the rest would happen.
	Maybe I'm wrong about that, but I don't think so.
	Alright, back to Robert W. Morgan.
	I want to talk a little bit about the nature of Bigfoot, and we began to do that before the top of the hour.
	But, Robert, do you understand the dilemma here?
	Oh, absolutely.
	I think you're between a rock and a hard space in one area.
	However, at the same time, I think that even if they would be turned out to be humanoid under the circumstances that it happened, I doubt seriously, because of the circumstances, and I doubt seriously if any prosecution would... It's when someone goes out and deliberately hunts Bigfoot, and knowing what they know about the possibility.
	There'd be homicide, please, sir.
	I guarantee it.
	They probably would, but... If we brought up bones that were hominoid, there'd be homicide, please, sir.
	There'd be all kinds of hell to pay that I'm not sure I can pay.
	In other words, I know who he is.
	I have made a promise and so I'd go down there and I'd probably be slammed in jail or some damn thing if we got that far.
	If I dug up bones, the police would be there guaranteed.
	It'd have to be.
	There'd be an investigation and the first question out of their mouths would be, who is he?
	Oh yes.
	Now as a reporter and a member of the media, how far does it go that you can protect yourself?
	I don't know.
	I'd have to ask a lawyer.
	I don't know if it includes that much protection for me or not.
	And I guess that would be a pretty key question because If there wasn't a... You know, they've thrown... An awful lot of reporters have been thrown in jail for contempt.
	That's what happens.
	They... Who is it?
	Well, I'm not answering.
	They put you in front of a judge.
	Well, okay, fine.
	Sit in jail until you decide to tell us.
	That's how it's done.
	But even if... You know, I would appeal directly to Buggs to understand that if these are humanoid Uh, that he would have to stand, uh, the charges.
	But the charges, as I say, I doubt seriously that anything would happen under the circumstances.
	Well, I don't know, but look at his thinking.
	He's 56 years old now.
	That's my age.
	Um, a second degree, or even a manslaughter charge, which would be the easiest thing I could think of.
	Manslaughter.
	Right.
	Uh, that would put you away for some years.
	Some years.
	Well, again, you have to look at intent.
	You know, there are hunting accidents all the time.
	And these things do happen.
	This man was a legitimate hunter.
	He made an accidental differentiation.
	He made a bad judgment call.
	No question.
	However, he's coming forward and saying, look, in the interest of science, I could have just left it out there.
	I doubt that a grand jury would return anything.
	You know, you're probably correct.
	You're probably correct, but it would be a long procedure.
	It would be something to endeavor to do, I'll tell you.
	And right now, if I could just hand the map to you, believe me, I would do that.
	Are you listening, Bugs?
	If I could give the map to you, Robert, then what would you do?
	Well, I would go down and verify that they exist, and I would get the proper scientists behind me to make sure that we have a cross-index, that nobody jumps any guns, and we know exactly what the hell we're doing.
	And we'd make a verification as to whether they are humanoid.
	And from that point, we would have to take it from there.
	I just can't.
	It's going to be such a...
	A monumental undertaking and a discovery for science worldwide.
	It's going to rewrite history books.
	And this man is making a valiant confession that, okay, I did something wrong, but let me see if I can, A, cleanse my conscience and do something.
	These people that are buried out there are dead for no reason at this point.
	But at least they would have died for a reason.
	And I think there's just... You know, what we could do is take this to a judge in advance.
	You know what he's going to say?
	And ask for immunity.
	I'll bet you... I'll bet we're not going to get it.
	In other words, the judge would say, look, what if this is just some... I'm putting myself in the judge's shoes, alright?
	I'm not about to give immunity to somebody who may have killed two human beings and buried them and cooked up a story about Bigfoot.
	To avoid prosecution, I'm not going to give immunity based on that possibility.
	How do you get around that one?
	Well, if they turned out to be six foot tall human beings, hell, you'd be right.
	But what we're saying is, under the parameters, that they would fit the description of Bigfoot Uh, etc.
	If we actually drew the parameters and the judge would say, all right, now look, if it's found under these parameters, then there would be no prosecution.
	I don't know.
	On one hand, the guy can just keep his mouth shut and to hell with it.
	And nobody knows anything.
	He's offering.
	He has already done that, although he wants to wait until after he passes away.
	But he's a young man.
	You guys are chickens.
	What are you guys talking about, getting old?
	It's nonsense.
	Well, I mean, one never knows.
	Forty-year-olds drop dead all the time.
	That's true.
	Not everybody is Robert W. Morgan.
	Some people realize mortality sooner than later, and it does happen sometimes.
	None of us know.
	All right, we'll look.
	I know you would.
	And if I could let you, believe me, Robert, I would.
	We'll see what Buggs decides to do.
	If he wants you to have the information, then Buggs, let me know.
	Otherwise, I don't know what the hell I'm going to do.
	Let's leave it there for a second.
	A little more on Bigfoot.
	Part of our, you know, a step in our evolution is what you believe.
	Yes.
	So, then, ultimately, how do you think a court would rule if we began to have all the solid evidence we need, that there really are these creatures, and that there's somewhere in between an ape and a man?
	Maybe not with the... You know, he used an interesting phrase with apologies, retarded, he said.
	Yeah.
	And so then, if these creatures are what you say they are, Robert, aren't they ultimately going to have the same civil rights and protections under the law?
	Hell, as rare as they are, probably more protections under the law.
	Absolutely.
	Than the rest of us.
	You know, a retarded person can vote.
	Sure.
	I mean, obviously, we've seen that in previous elections.
	No, but I'm talking about Bill of Rights, the whole smear.
	And probably added protections beyond that, because they're obviously fairly rare, right?
	Well, in comparison to the human being, yes, they're very, very rare.
	Absolutely.
	But, you know, all of our history books, all of our anthropology books, our psychology, everything is going to have to make a shift, because so much is involved here.
	The pathology that we have built around ourselves, you know, that we're kings of the universe and all this other stuff.
	It's going to be a major earthquake, and there's going to be a lot of scrambling to explain.
	But these people, yes, under our Constitution, they have a helix.
	I think you and I have gone through this before, but for your new listeners, they have a helix, which is the big toe.
	This is only in humans.
	They have the buttocks that we sit on, that is not pungeni, that is not apes, that's human.
	They have an articulated speech that you and I have heard on the recordings come back, in which they actually repeat English words, even though they have their own language, they come back using English words in a proper way.
	That's right.
	When they responded, you're not welcome, in that particular phrase, they were imitating what other people had said to them.
	That was cognitive.
	So here we have cognitive thought.
	We have the opposing thumb.
	Now we have the hyoid bone.
	They habitually walk erect.
	I mean, what the hell more do you have to have?
	Of course, humans have an interesting thing.
	Every time an ape or something gets close to them, they come up with a new, oh yes, but we do this, you know.
	Uh, the gorillas are not worth a damn.
	They don't have cognitive thought.
	I think that's nonsense.
	Coco has proven this many times over.
	So, we're in a bit of a dilemma here, and I think of all things, and I have to agree with him, and I know you don't like to have your popo padded, but the fact is, I think he gave this information to the right man.
	Well, thanks.
	Now it's your problem.
	Yeah, now it's my problem.
	As I said a little bit earlier, to me, this is a terrible problem.
	I might end up burning that map.
	I might end up burning it.
	I hope not.
	I hope not, but at the same time I think it would be well understood if you had.
	I'm going to make sure that I send to you, if you'll forward it to Bug, a copy of that cassette of mine, because I want him to listen to it and follow the directions, so that perhaps, perhaps Bug, and I know you're listening, I can teach you a way of going out and communicating with these people passively, and something might happen for you, not to you, for you.
	And that's what that tape was created for.
	So I'll send it down to Art, and I'm sure he'll send it on to you.
	Even in view of what Buzz did, you think forgiveness would be in their repertoire?
	That if you were to get out and near one of these creatures, as I know you have done, and you know how to do, that he'd come out of it alive?
	Yes, and I'll tell you why.
	With a new friend?
	Yes, they wanted him.
	They would have walked over at night and come through the house and gotten him.
	If he's that close to the river and if he sounds like he's on a farm... Have you ever seen him exhibit that kind of behavior?
	You mean forgiving?
	Well, that's a good place to go.
	Forgiving would be good, but more to the point...
	You said that if they wanted him, they would have gone to his house and they'd have had him a long time ago, right?
	Yes, I think that they have a long memory.
	I think that... I'll give you an example.
	In Skamini County, Washington, there was a fellow by the name of Sheriff Bill Clawson.
	And I got to know Bill a little bit.
	And there had been an elk hunter killed in Skamini County, not too far from a town called Cougar.
	And the fellow had killed an elk and gone over and fired three more shells that were not in that elk.
	And he was killed.
	He was dead.
	And that gun had been wrapped around a tree.
	It had been bashed terribly.
	And a Marine happened to be in that area of all things.
	A Marine.
	And he had seen something go through the woods.
	And it turned out that the likely scenario Was that this fellow had shot the elk.
	He had tracked the elk for about two miles.
	He came up on it, and apparently a Bigfoot was there.
	He opened fire on the Bigfoot.
	The Bigfoot took the gun and wrapped it around a dang tree, or, you know, bent it.
	Well, Clausen was caught.
	I believe Bill passed away now, so it's okay to talk about it.
	But Clausen, apparently, his organization was caught in a dilemma.
	What are they going to say?
	He was killed by a Bigfoot.
	No, they said that he had fired his gun and that the elk had killed him.
	So what did they do?
	Another instance, not too far from there, there was a logger that had been chased after he had fired on a Bigfoot.
	And he had chased and they hit him with a rock.
	It killed him.
	After he had fired on a Bigfoot.
	And yet the other people went into that area and they had zero problems.
	So you have seen or know of behavior like that?
	Oh yes, and at the same time I went into those identical areas with the same Bigfoot families and they left me gifts.
	So what does it tell you?
	They realize it's different.
	I'm not sure what it tells me.
	It might tell me a lot of things.
	It might tell me they're telepathic.
	It might suggest to me they're telepathic.
	It very easily could be.
	Or just empathic.
	In other words, they understand the intentions as it Creature does intuitively, they understand your intentions.
	Believe me, depending on how I approach my cats, they'll either take off running, or they'll purr and throw themselves on their backs and their bellies in the air so they can be scratched, right?
	And rubbed.
	That's what they love.
	But if you come to them the wrong way, they can tell.
	They can tell as you're coming up on them.
	Uh, stalk a cat and see what it does.
	Oh, yeah.
	Well, the funny thing is, this is why I never, again, I ask people never, ever take a gun or, believe it or not, a camera.
	Don't take it with you.
	No camera?
	No.
	And here's the reason why.
	What do you do with a camera?
	You take a picture.
	That's right, but what do you do with it physically?
	You raise it to your face.
	And shoot, yes.
	Yeah, and shoot.
	Get it?
	Yep.
	Yeah, how in the hell do they know what you're raising?
	That's a mechanical device and you raise it up toward your face and you point it at them.
	Good point.
	Just like a gun.
	Yeah, that's... That's why most people don't get pictures.
	It takes a very rare instance to get a picture.
	Are you a believer in the Patterson film?
	You think that was a real thing?
	Oh, if you'll recall, I showed you the other two Bigfoot in that film.
	Oh, yes.
	I know.
	I remember.
	Yes, of course.
	I'm asking you for the new audience here.
	Oh, I see.
	I'm so sorry.
	What happened in that film?
	And you know, they came up with this nonsense that, oh, the suit had been made by a Hollywood guy.
	Let me tell you something.
	If he had made a suit, Well, with muscles moving at it, he would have sold that suit because Hollywood had nothing anywhere near like that, number one.
	Number two, if he was playing a joke on Patterson, how did he know Gimlin wasn't on a shooting?
	Three, did Patterson do it?
	Hell no, he didn't have enough money for that sort of thing.
	He had enough trouble feeding his family.
	So number four, we discovered that there was something wrong with the way that female acted.
	She walked away In the middle.
	She didn't run for the fourth.
	That bothered me.
	And as I told you, my adopted father, Neal Kochese, finally kept pointing it and telling me, hey dummy, you're looking in the wrong area.
	So we, one night when I was working on the eclipse, And looking through it, I accidentally went off of color, and I was looking at black and white, and I scanned backwards, and I found a young baby.
	That's right.
	Very clear, by the way.
	And he's sitting down, just like a little kid, and he's got his hand up around the thing, and she's walking away from her baby, and then we look ahead of her, and here is this male, leaning out, watching.
	Now, hell, what is she doing?
	She's saying, okay, two white guys, follow me, and I'm going to take you to Big Daddy, and we're going to knock your bloody head off if you mess around with our kid.
	And it makes sense.
	Yes, Robert, hold it right there.
	I want to open the phone lines here in a moment if you have questions for Robert W. Morgan.
	Then, uh, now would be the appropriate time.
	I'm Art Bell and this is Coast to Coast AM, all about Bigfoot tonight.
	Music Playing...
	Music Playing...
	Yeah.
	From the Kingdom of Nye, this is a special replay of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	This program originally aired June 5th, 2001.
	Please do not call.
	Wanna take a ride?
	Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	800-618-8255, east of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach our debt 1-775-727-1222.
	The wildcard line is open at 1-777-8255.
	And to call out on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	Good morning, everybody.
	My guest is Robert W. Morgan, and we're talking about Bigfoot.
	And he really is the man who knows about Bigfoot.
	So, what can I say?
	Stay right where you are.
	Lots more to come.
	Alright, back to Robert W. Morgan.
	We're going to get you on the line with him here in a second.
	Shannon in Orange County asks, could you possibly ask Robert to email you the complete description or illustration of the location of the child Bigfoot and male Bigfoot in Patterson's film, and would you post that?
	Your website isn't up right now, is it?
	No, it's not, but I can give you an email address.
	It's RWM, the numeric 4, Big Sky.
	At Big Sky?
	Big Sky at AOL.com.
	R-W-M, numeric four, Big Sky, at AOL.
	At AOL.
	And that Big Sky, that's Montana.
	Gotcha.
	Okay, when do you anticipate you might ever get your website up again?
	Well, I'm working on it with Scott Valesko at Artist First Group.
	Those are the folks that are handling my cassette, and they're working with Steve, and we expect probably within the next week or so we should have our website back.
	Let me give you a good plug for your cassette, too.
	What's on there?
	Oh, the cassette.
	This is the first half of it on the audio cassette.
	Is an actual experience that had taken place in Ohio and I'm talking about this is recorded by Scott Church.
	This is a full theater type thing.
	Otherwise, you actually experience what we experienced.
	The second half of the cassette, the other half, will tell you step-by-step what you can do, so you can do what I do, if you follow it exactly the way I am.
	Which is come face-to-face with the Bigfoot.
	That's right, if you handle it correctly.
	Now, we've had 16 people so far, and good God, we've sold over 5,000 of these cassettes.
	But it's very difficult.
	It's not an easy thing.
	You don't just go out and scroll for five seconds.
	But you're saying you've had 16 people that have done it?
	Yes.
	They have come forward and they have told me.
	Now, I have asked each one of them and so far they've all declined to have themselves Uh, their name revealed.
	See, there you are.
	Now, you're talking about people declining just a witness report, right?
	Attaching their name to it.
	Exactly.
	So understand what the situation is with Bucks.
	People just ask.
	No big deal.
	I have hundreds of them like that.
	Wrong.
	It's a big deal.
	But if they follow the cassette, if they follow what I ask them to do, and if they do their research, The chances are.
	And can I give the address on that?
	Is there a phone number?
	Yes, it's 888-295-2787.
	What do they ask for?
	Well, they'll answer the phone.
	First, they ask for the Robert W. Morgan Ultimate Adventure.
	Bigfoot, the Ultimate Adventure.
	Alright, how much is it?
	I don't know what they're charging at right now.
	I have no idea.
	I think it's $10, I believe.
	All of $10, all right.
	1-888-295-2787.
	Right.
	And they can go to the website directly, artistfirst.com.
	One word, artistfirst.com.
	And it's quite an adventure.
	It really is.
	Alright, I've got a lot of people who would like to talk to you.
	Okay.
	So, let's rock.
	I'm ready.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Robert W. Morgan.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Yes.
	Where are you?
	Lansing, Michigan.
	Okay, fire away.
	I was calling to ask him, I know that Bugs mentioned that when he first spotted the Bigfoot, that they had bright, deep red eyes.
	That's right.
	If they were human-like, wouldn't the eyes not be reflective?
	Probably they would not be, but at the same time I wanted to ask him what the color eyes of human beings are when you hit them directly in the eye.
	Have you ever seen photographs taken and what do you get out of a human eye?
	Every once in a while I get either a blue or a greenish color.
	Or you might get a red dot.
	Also, it's according to the frequency of the light that you're using.
	I'm pretty sure that's what the situation is.
	Well, he was using halogen.
	He said they were using halogen.
	Yes, he does.
	It was like 50 watt halogen.
	No, 500.
	500, something like that.
	Right, that's what he said, 500.
	So any idea, Robert, what a 500 watt halogen pointed at a human would produce?
	No, I don't.
	I can find out pretty quickly, but the ones I'm using are nearly, my God, they're 50,000 candle power, the ones I use.
	But I have seen... Well, you've got to remember that was in the 1970s, though.
	Well, that's true.
	I have seen members of my own party turn around and look toward me at certain angles, and I've seen a pink glimpse.
	So I'm not sure what to answer on that one.
	One more line, you're on the air with Robert W. Morgan.
	Hello.
	Hi, Eric.
	What I started to say before was that probably just assume that they're already moving on you with warrants and just burn the thing now.
	You know, because you're going to get it again later.
	Ultimately, one last time, you're going to get a piece of mail from him through his lawyers, and if Buck doesn't call back by now to say, you know, go ahead and give it to him.
	Just get rid of it.
	All right.
	You know?
	Anything else, sir?
	Well, one last question.
	I need a piece of information if you've got it.
	Vacuum tubes.
	Anybody sell them?
	You know, underground?
	Oh, yeah.
	Oh, no.
	You don't have to go underground.
	They have their antique radio catalogs.
	You can buy vacuum tubes.
	Thank you.
	All right.
	Take care.
	Just look, antique radio tubes.
	Enter that in search engine.
	You'll find plenty of them.
	East of the Rockies.
	You're on the air.
	Hi.
	Good morning, Art.
	This is Robert calling from Jacksonville, Florida.
	WOKV?
	Yes, sir.
	First of all, politically correct, it's no longer retarded.
	It's mentally challenged.
	But my major question or thought is that I would hope for humanity's sake that this information would not be destroyed.
	I don't know if Robert has the financial backing or if there's some way that we might be able to contribute to get a team that would be willing to go down there.
	Could it be an archaeological dig or something like that?
	I think as public as it is right now, sir, it is what it is.
	My dilemma is what it is.
	Period.
	I just hope that some way, somehow, that these two beings, or whatever, Could contribute to, like Robert says, that we find out and they would be protected in the future.
	That's the whole thing, and I couldn't agree with you more, and I hope that this somehow comes about and comes to pass one way or the other, but I certainly, I applaud you, sir, for wanting this to come to fruition, and certainly I'm ready to walk out and get in the van right now.
	Well, we'll have to take it after West.
	That's up to Bugs.
	That's right.
	If Bugs decides he wants to trust you with this information, brother, it'll be on the way to you, believe me.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Robert W. Morgan and Art Bell.
	Hi.
	Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't push that.
	West of the Rockies, with a sticking button, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, you got me now?
	Yes.
	Hi, how you guys doing?
	I'm calling from the Mount Shaft area.
	Yes, sir.
	I'm concerned about Buggs and his mental state of mind.
	He seems really, you know, broken up about this quite a bit.
	Yeah, I think he has been for a lot of years.
	You know, I'd like you guys to, you know, if it's possible, jump on it as soon as possible.
	Find out from some legal people and reassure him that he's not liable for any type of criminal wrongdoing.
	Maybe, or if you can, call him and get permission from him to be able to maybe fax that or to To Robert, the map.
	Fine, so Echelon can get it now, huh?
	Well, I don't know, however you can get it, you know.
	They'd probably already have it.
	But get, you know, Robert's permission, maybe to get him involved in that.
	And maybe, Robert, you could, you know, try to reassure Bugs the value of this find and being able to protect those people in the future.
	But you've got to understand, sir, from my point of view, only with Bugs' permission, you see, I can't My promise was a very sacred one to originally do this show and that was to never to anybody identify who he is or now indeed also where these creatures are buried.
	I made that promise and I take it real seriously.
	I've done it with a number of other things over the years and I take it very seriously.
	You know, after what happened to a lot of the non-vets when they came back, I think that I can speak for some of the guys.
	It's awfully nice to find out that there is someone in America that they can trust.
	Yeah.
	They sure got the crap kicked out of them by their government.
	Yeah, they sure did.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Robert W. Morgan.
	Hello.
	Good evening, sir.
	My name's William and I'm in Texas.
	I'm a former homicide investigator.
	I was wondering if there was something that I could do to help.
	Well, you've been listening, right?
	Yes, sir.
	So, if you're a homicide detective, you tell us.
	What are we looking at here?
	There's always ways around homicides like that, if they do turn out to be hominoid.
	It's kind of difficult, but in the events that he described, There's always a defense to prosecution in everything.
	In everything.
	And if you had... Okay, but let me ask you this, Detective.
	If we proceed down there and dig up bones in there, hominoid bones, the police are going to be, you folks are going to be involved right away, aren't you?
	Not necessarily.
	If you start it out as an archaeological dig, it's completely out of our jurisdiction until we're called in to investigate a homicide.
	If the archaeologists think it actually is a homicide.
	Until then, the police have nothing that they can do about it.
	Okay, so under Texas law, we would be protected to go down, exhume the bones, and turn them over to science.
	To discover exactly what they are.
	Without interference from the law?
	Without interference from the law.
	That's pretty common in most states.
	I'll tell you, most times I've heard when they turn up some kind of unidentified body, and it's obviously been human, or it looked human, or they find a bone, the police are almost there always right away.
	From what I, everything I, you know, I watch TV, what do I know?
	But that's how a lot of investigations begin.
	You know, somebody digs up a mostly decomposed body of some kind.
	Well, Detective, may I ask you, if we were to go into that area, would it be to our advantage to alert the state and tell them what we're doing?
	Ahead of time?
	No, actually, the only thing that you would need to do is set it up originally, From the word go, as an archeological dig, looking for what I would term as old remains.
	That's the way they do it here in Texas when they're doing Indian burial grounds up in northern Texas.
	Detective, is there a legal definition of old remains?
	I mean, we're only talking about 30 years here.
	We're not talking about previous civilizations.
	The direct definition of old.
	Alright.
	You could be digging up an Indian burial ground, for all that we know, and you find humanoid remains.
	It would take scientists from any university that does archaeological work sometimes months to determine how old the bones are.
	Fascinating.
	Alright, thank you very much.
	Thank you.
	I don't know.
	I don't know if I buy that.
	I'll tell you, Robert, I've watched so many TV... I suppose he could be right if we weren't already so public about this.
	That you could proceed with what you would call an archaeological expedition.
	Which we could under our American Anthropological Research Foundation, which I already have.
	We could do exactly that.
	You listening, Bugs?
	I'm not the one you've got to convince here.
	What we should do is take that detective along with us as an advisor.
	That's right.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Robert W. Morgan.
	Hello.
	Hi, I'm calling from the Detroit area.
	Yes.
	And it occurs to me that one of the problems with this is that Bugs has already said that at the time they buried these creatures, they thought they had killed people who were developmentally disabled.
	No, he said that occurred to them as one possibility, right?
	Well, but anyway, they thought of that at the time they were burying them because of the way they looked.
	And this means that they knew they were doing something illegal at that time, as they understood it.
	It's just like if you hit somebody and you drive away from the scene, maybe hitting them was an accident and would be excused in court, but the fact that you left the scene is something that's going to get you dragged back.
	And so they buried them.
	That was the point at which it might have become a matter for intervention by the authorities, even if the rest of it sounded clear.
	And the other thing is, why don't you just send the map back?
	Hold on.
	Thank you very much, ma'am.
	Those are all good questions, but I'm going to have to interrupt for a second because I've got to make a quick call.
	I've decided I want this on the air.
	Let's see if I can do this.
	Come on.
	Dial that.
	Okay, let me try and dial this number.
	Hold on, Robert.
	We're in the middle of something here.
	I'm with you.
	Okay, let's see.
	All right.
	Let's see if we can do this.
	Yes, it's me.
	Bugs?
	Yep.
	It's you?
	Yep.
	All right.
	I want to just say a few more words.
	I want to be absolutely certain it's you.
	It is absolutely me.
	Okay.
	I know it is, because I dialed the number.
	He called me on a break on a special phone here, and Robert, he said... You're in the map.
	You're sure you want me to give him the map?
	Art, I've lived with it for too many years, man.
	I don't know.
	I won't expose so bad, Art.
	I don't want to go to jail.
	I've got two young grandkids.
	I don't know what to do.
	Listen to that detective just now.
	Listen to Robert.
	I'm in a hell of a dilemma.
	Yes, you are.
	I have not asked for one dime out of this.
	I don't want no money.
	No, I know you haven't.
	You haven't written a book.
	You haven't done anything in all these years.
	I know.
	And I don't know what to do.
	Bugs, can I make a suggestion?
	Yes.
	Sleep on it.
	Just relax.
	Just relax.
	You've already gone through a hell of a trauma here.
	Why don't we all take a couple of steps back and think this out, because you don't want to hurt yourself and your grandchildren.
	That's for sure.
	I have your email.
	You can go ahead and tell Robert who I am and give him my phone number.
	We can talk.
	I can trust him.
	You know what, though?
	Listen, Bugs.
	I kind of agree.
	Why don't you sleep on it, and I'll call you tomorrow, Bugs.
	Okay.
	Because there are possible ramifications.
	I won't kid you.
	I know that, Art.
	I know that.
	But you know, it's been 30 years, nearly.
	Pretty hard to live with something like that.
	And like I heard some of the listeners say, if this is what it is, then it's going to rewrite history.
	Yes, it is.
	Bugs, just relax, I think, and just kick back.
	Book out for a little short time.
	Let me do some research on my own, and maybe we could even work an immunity situation.
	I don't know.
	Let me think, too.
	Let me do some thinking, also.
	I would like to show it.
	I would like for you to have it, Robert, because I think you're a decent person, and I think you're an honest person.
	Well, thank you.
	I think he is, too, for what it's worth.
	He's a great guy.
	And I know Art is I think Art would go to jail and spend the rest of his life in jail before he'd release it.
	You're right Klaus, I would.
	Who I am.
	And I'd hate it, but I'd do that.
	I would never reveal your name, you know that.
	I know that, but it's just one of those situations.
	I want it out so bad I can taste it, but I still have that fear.
	I still have that fear.
	You're giving this to Robert under what conditions?
	He talked to me first before he does anything.
	anything. Oh, okay. Well, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, uh, obviously if I had the map, I would not
	go there. We have got, we have got to make sure that my, that I am not going to be in
	trouble. Right. I just don't want to do that because...
	You know, all this is really going to do, I'm with you, I know you're 56 and it would be years, or could be.
	And Robert, it's a consideration.
	All this is going to do is shift the responsibility from me to you, Robert, if you get this map.
	What are you talking about?
	I'm holding your hand.
	Yeah, that's right.
	But I mean, it is going to put you in roughly the same position I'm in.
	Because he doesn't want to get in trouble.
	And if after investigating, there's no way you can assure him he can't get in trouble, then there's no way you can proceed.
	Am I right, Bugs?
	That's correct.
	Well, you know, at my age, I have this horrible thing that happens to everyone.
	I have this terrible memory blank.
	I have these things that happen.
	I just can't remember where I am or what I've been doing.
	Alright, Bugs.
	Alright, fine.
	Good.
	I'm happy.
	Bugs, thank you, brother.
	Take care.
	See you later.
	Robert, you stay there.
	well that you will be a robert you stay there today
	and the
	the Another night, another day
	I never stopped myself to wonder why You have to forget to play my role
	You take myself, you take myself on the floor I, I live among the creatures of the night
	I haven't got the will to try and fight Against the wind tomorrow, I guess I'll just believe it
	Tomorrow never comes I said tonight, I'm living in the forest of the dream
	I'm living in the forest of the dream I know that I did not...
	The Coast to Coast AM Archives. You're listening to the Best of Art Bell.
	This program originally aired June 5th, 2001. Please do not call.
	Wanna take a ride?
	Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at area code 775-727-1222.
	Or call the wildcard line at 775-727-1295.
	To talk with Art on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast.
	I suppose they am, with Art Bell.
	One of the creatures of the night, that would be me.
	Boy, I just put myself in all kinds of strange positions, don't I?
	Well, I think that's what's protected me so far, is that it's all pretty strange.
	And until you take a step, like a physical step toward doing something, the authorities out there probably, over the years, have gone, Art Bell, huh?
	Okay.
	Back now to Robert W. Morgan and oh my the problems we run into.
	Somebody here, a fast blast, Robert.
	That's it, all right.
	Thank you, guys.
	Religious interference just might be a heavy problem for you.
	You know, it's an interesting question, Robert.
	If we were to actually produce a being that was intelligent, whose DNA set it apart from human beings and made it a rather obvious predecessor to human beings, that would be a problem for some in a religious world, wouldn't it?
	Yes, it would.
	But at the same time, you know, it places them in a problem, doesn't it?
	You see, I don't believe in defending myself.
	When I see somebody pull their fist back, I attack.
	I hear you.
	I'm with you.
	Yeah, and so my attitude is this.
	You know, if we go back through history, Galileo, there's so many things that were stood in the way.
	Leeuwenhoek, when he did the microscope, Uh, they tried to put him in prison because they said that the devil was painting those little microbes because they didn't believe germs were in there because it wasn't in their Bible, you know?
	Yeah.
	Oh, neither did the panda bear, you know?
	But for God's sake, don't tell the panda!
	Uh, these people are going to have to come to grips with reality as opposed to wishful thinking.
	And, uh, some of them I think will attack, obviously.
	But if the bones are there and the reality is there, I think they'll land on their feet and come up with some rational explanation that fits into their dogma.
	But the problem really is not ours, it's theirs.
	Let's imagine for a second, Robert, that there was a debate about whether A prosecutor, for example, should pursue here what would happen if a prosecutor began pursuing it with pressure to lay this out as nothing more than a double homicide, let's say.
	Right.
	Let's put it this way, Robert.
	I can imagine such pressure for reasons beyond simple prosecutorial consideration.
	In other words, I see politics behind this.
	Do you follow me?
	Yes, I follow you.
	If I were a politician, if I were a politician, thank God I'm not, but if I were, I believe under these circumstances I would want to leave the church to find out exactly what these bodies are, and I would reserve judgment.
	A wise man, if he doesn't know the answer, steps back and waits.
	And I think it's wise that we advise folks to do that.
	I think you should think about this overnight or more, and I'm perfectly willing To turn over the information as he's requested, but I'm going to get a sort of a next day thing from him before I proceed.
	Oh, the next day, I would wait a week or so.
	Just take your time.
	There's no rush.
	None of us are in a rush.
	I've waited too many years and worked too many hours and years to rush to judgment.
	But if I were a politician, I think what I would say is what we're after here, and this is politically correct, is the truth.
	And that's the major thing.
	Is it true?
	No matter what the outcome is, no matter how the chips fall, no matter what genetic code comes out of the DNA, all we're interested in, all any of us, you, myself, everyone, we're interested in the truth.
	Anyone who comes out against finding out the truth.
	But a lot hangs on that DNA test.
	Oh yes, it does.
	And for one thing, Bugs has just finished telling you As he told me, that if there's any chance that he's going to get prosecuted out of this, he doesn't want to do it.
	Well, I don't blame him.
	I don't think I would do anything if I thought there was any danger to him.
	What I'm going to do...
	Actually, we should discuss it off the line, but I have a plan in mind, and I think I'm going to go to the top dog.
	Yeah, we're reduced to discussing this on the air right now, but I guess that's alright.
	Look, it's all laid out, so we might as well.
	I just think, you mentioned earlier, trying to get some sort of immunity from this, and I really can see going to a judge and trying that, but I can see the results of it too.
	I just, in my wildest dreams, I cannot imagine a judge offering complete immunity based on a story like this, that I thought it was Bigfoot's.
	The judge and the legal system, I guarantee you, are going to think of this more like double murder than they are as anything else until the DNA tests are back!
	Right?
	Right, right.
	And once they're back, then either we've got, you know, a double murder on our hands or we've got something that science needs to look into but at best it's what kind of chances there may be 50-50 as far as bugs is concerned and if you know the DNA comes back the wrong way
	They're going to want you to be turning over bugs, like now.
	Right.
	Well, I think... You don't happen to have Johnny Cochran's number, do you?
	Let's take some more calls.
	This is not so easy.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Robert W. Morgan.
	Yeah, hello?
	Hello.
	Yes.
	How you doing, Art?
	Okay, sir.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Colorado.
	All right.
	Calling from Denver.
	You know, I was deer hunting about four years ago with a partner in high country.
	Buck Hunt.
	We backpacked into a wilderness area in North Central Colorado and we were there for two days.
	We spotted two nice bucks and we were preparing for a shot when the bucks spooked and ran up a draw.
	At first we thought it was a bear.
	It was approximately 250-300 yards away and it turned out to be a Bigfoot.
	It jumped out, grabbed this deer, broke its neck, and the second one broke its neck
	and the second one came up out of the bushes
	what he did is he had spooked these deer up to the first one up on top
	they carried it over the hill and i guess they presumed to eat it or whatever
	and me and my partner were kind of freaked out about all this we were in
	there about eight miles well first of all uh... i've heard reports both ways that
	bigfoot is a vegetarian that bigfoot is a meat eater
	maybe both uh...
	Robert?
	Yes, they're definitely an omnivore just like we are.
	So then this report doesn't surprise you?
	Oh, absolutely not.
	They hunt for meat.
	They are, it seems like, a primary vegetarian at first glance because of the greeneries that they do eat.
	But no, they're hunters just like we are.
	Hunter-gatherers.
	Well, they didn't like us in their area two days later when we Got back to our humble meager camp.
	One of them must have picked up a boulder approximately two feet in diameter and placed it in the center of our tent.
	And there was a stick in the trail that was broken off a tree and it was forked and it was pointing down trail.
	And this is kind of gruesome, but there was an eyeball with a stick pierced through it laying on top of the stick.
	Oh my God!
	He's telling you it's time for you to exit the stage left.
	Yeah, once you saw the boulder in the middle of the tent, that's a real big hint there.
	Well, the nearest boulders of that size were about half a mile.
	That's even a bigger hint, see?
	Exactly.
	We exited that area.
	I carried this massive thing up here and I put it on your tent, see?
	Yeah.
	Well, it wasn't a fun trip.
	We weren't successful.
	That's incredible, Robert.
	Again, this kind of behavior?
	Sure, of course.
	To me, there's no problem because there was no violence done to anyone.
	All they did was say, excuse me, this is our area.
	We'd rather that you leave.
	They didn't throw any stones at you.
	They didn't hit you.
	They didn't try to kill you.
	They didn't scream at you.
	Nothing like that.
	They just gave you a... It's like the mafia asking you if you want to buy fire insurance for your store.
	Exactly.
	Well, it was their hunting grounds, you know.
	We put up no trespassing signs.
	Well, so did they.
	I don't have any problem with that.
	Caller?
	Yes.
	Well, you know, we heard some sounds.
	The first night there, we heard... It sounded like a mountain lion.
	That's what we thought they were.
	Approximately four or five of them that surrounded us in this high country basin.
	And after upon seeing that mule deer buck getting dispatched of that easily, and these creatures weren't small.
	At first we thought it was a bear, but when it stood erect and picked this mature buck up that probably weighed 250 and put it over its shoulder, I would estimate that they were probably eight and a half feet tall, both of them.
	Dark haired.
	That's all we can tell.
	Did you happen to take a look at the pictures on my website?
	No, I haven't yet.
	I would be very interested in your opinion of which resembles what you saw.
	Okay, I can give you a fast blast later on.
	Would you?
	Well, yeah, I'd have to get up a lion to look up to you.
	I understand.
	I understand.
	All right.
	But, Robert, any other questions for this?
	No.
	Pretty interesting stuff.
	It's pretty interesting because, you see, you were given warning that the three or four or five lion calls around, you know darn well, five lions don't hunt together.
	So this means they were great imitators and they gave you a message.
	The first time, by screaming around your camp, you didn't leave.
	So then they decided, okay, now you watched us hunt.
	That's enough of this nonsense.
	So they put a rock in your place and showed you the way down the trail.
	I would say that's pretty darn sophisticated.
	Now, a tiger wouldn't have done that, would he?
	No.
	Oh, no.
	No, he would have attacked.
	And when Robert, suppose they had idiotically ignored all this and somehow Resurrected their tent and remained the night.
	What would probably have happened?
	They would have probably tried to scare you by throwing rocks close to your head but not hitting you.
	They're not going to overtly attack you.
	Now if you didn't leave then, believe it or not, they would have left.
	Myself, I go into their areas constantly.
	I never, ever carry a gun.
	I don't need it.
	Well, we were prepared to defend ourselves.
	I'll put it that way.
	Yeah, but you did beat feet down the track, right?
	Oh, well, yeah.
	We had enough of what we could and what was left over.
	Needless to say, we couldn't move that boulder.
	Yeah, well, those are obvious, really strong signs.
	Boulder, middle of tent, eyeball, pointing stick, goodbye.
	So, you did the right thing, of course.
	Now, you see, a judge would not have convicted you, or you wouldn't think so, Had that not worked, you'd gone on hunting, and one of them would have perceived to have attacked you, and at least put himself in a position.
	You fired, right?
	Oh, no.
	I wouldn't have been scared about that at all going to court.
	Exactly.
	I don't think he would have stood up in court, and I don't think there would even have been a court trial, because I'd probably be a very wealthy man at this time.
	Well, I don't know about that, but... I'd probably have a price on my head from... Maybe.
	Or whatever.
	I'm sure he would have been over my mantle.
	Yeah, that would have been...
	Or a big museum's mantle somewhere.
	All right, thank you very much.
	Whoa, what an interesting story.
	Yeah, that's not unusual.
	So you've heard of hunting practices like that?
	Oh, absolutely.
	And you've seen them leave signs of the... because it indicates magnitude of intelligence, obviously.
	They have thrown rocks so close, right near my wife's head.
	Well, throwing rocks, you know, that's fairly primitive.
	Right up there with clubbing.
	Well, I don't know about that, Art.
	If you intentionally miss, I'll give you that.
	Palestinians are getting shot for throwing rocks.
	Oh, what a good point.
	So anyway.
	They're considered deadly weapons over there.
	You throw a rocket at somebody, they shoot you.
	Well, they claim with rubber bullets, you know.
	Rockets.
	Rocks and rubber bullets.
	Look, we'll really get off.
	I get you in all kinds of trouble, don't I?
	Yes, absolutely you do.
	I'll go to the next line, is what I'll do.
	Well, I'm glad you're on the air with Robert W. Morgan.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	This is Emily over in Hilo.
	On the Big Island?
	Yes, the Big Island of Hawaii.
	Hi there.
	Before we came over here, and then by the way, this is a real, that was a hard story to follow.
	Mine's not quite as interesting as that fellow's is, but... It's alright.
	We were in East Texas, my son and I, and my husband, we had a farm down in East Texas in the Piney Woods, and we were coming home from school one afternoon down a country road, not very traveled, Me and my son.
	We topped a hill.
	As we topped the hill on the dirt road, over about a five foot fence jumped this creature.
	It seemed to be in slow motion.
	He was going, going, going.
	He ran across the road and went over the next fence.
	They were brand new fences.
	They were real tight.
	They were real high and real strong.
	We approached it and he was gone into the woods.
	I lived about three miles from there and about a week later at night my dogs were barking, barking, barking all night and so about three o'clock in the morning I decided to get up, go out and let them out of the kennel.
	I walked about 25 yards and I heard that exact same scream, yell that you've taped before of the Bigfoot.
	I stopped dead still in the middle of the night and I thought, oh my gosh, what is this?
	I had ten more feet to go to the dog fight, ran to the pen, I let the dogs out and the
	dogs ran straight to the house.
	Well the next day I had a post in the ground, it was cemented in the ground about a foot
	deep in the ground and that thing was broke off through the ground.
	I don't know how it could have gotten broke off.
	But the sound that I heard on your program was the exact same sound I saw.
	That blood chilling scream?
	Yeah, and also the creature had a shirt on.
	He had on a blue, looked like a blue flannel shirt.
	Actually, you know, I'm not sure what sound we're hearing here.
	It was interesting what Bugs said.
	I'm tempted to We'll get it on again.
	I don't have that first part.
	I want the first part.
	I'll try to get up to that first part.
	But is that what you, Robert, you would consider a scream?
	Is that a normal noise?
	Is there any way to identify what that noise means?
	No, I would anticipate that that is just merely a threat.
	It's a warning.
	It's saying, get the hell away from me.
	I'm going to scare you.
	I'm Joe Frankenstein.
	And I've seen, see, they practice, you know.
	They do this and it's like you and I when we were kids.
	Let's go scare somebody and hang out in the I think they actually enjoy some of that.
	They have a hell of a sense of humor, these guys.
	They're very good with kids.
	They're very gentle with children.
	A sense of humor is, well, that would be an instinctual thing.
	The care of young, all understand the young.
	But a sense of humor, that's a really human thing.
	A sense of humor is definitely a human thing.
	Yeah, well, they seem sometimes, I swear, it feels like they're playing with you.
	Now, it could be, you know, an anthropomorphic projection of some sort, but sometimes they'll leave things and then they'll take things from you.
	All right, ma'am.
	Ma'am?
	Yeah, I'll look you in the eye and I'll say, yeah.
	Like that?
	Yeah, it was kind of a scream and a holler at the same time, but you guys are at the threshold of something that's been brewing a long, long time, and they need protection.
	But I know where you're coming from, and I know your fears, and I know it's a lot of apprehension involved here, but it's real, and it's out there.
	Well, in my estimation, in a way, and I understand what Buggs wants to do, but he's handed us an impossible situation, because I just don't see, frankly, how anybody, myself or Robert, Could go to the location, promising bugs, no possibility of prosecution.
	How can we do that?
	Well, it's something that you're going to have to work out, but it's got to be worked out and it's got to come forth and it's got to happen.
	There's a beginning, and this is it.
	It's got to happen.
	And it'll be okay, because with technology and DNA and everything, Because sometimes we don't want these killings to keep going on and on and on.
	They're completely extinct, and we don't want them thrown in zoos.
	Any idea, Robert, how many Bigfoot there are, or is that just a silly question?
	No, I really don't.
	There was once a projection made about 2,500 in North America, but I think that is just simply a figure someone threw out.
	Somebody's guess?
	Yeah, it was Dr. Grover Krantz.
	Myself, I would not even begin to assume.
	Because when I thought I was in an area with one family, it turned out that there was three.
	And I was stunned that there was one, and all of a sudden I'm finding three different groups.
	And this was in the central part of Ohio.
	And just right near a place called Alliance, Ohio, where they've had this meningitis outbreak.
	Right.
	Just north of that.
	I thought I was following one family.
	Hell, I ran into three separate groups.
	All right.
	Hold it, Robert.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	We'll be right back.
	Oh, yeah.
	Oh, yeah.
	cam on in and talk.
	I'm gonna be honest, I'm not a fan of the sound of it.
	you I need to find an answer on the road
	I used to be a hard-kickin' poor dumb one But the times have changed
	The less I say the more my work gets done Cause I'm living in this deadly freedom
	I'm the devil I was born to be Still I've got to feel good
	listening to a special replay of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	This program originally aired June 5th, 2001.
	Please do not call.
	Wanna take a ride?
	Well, call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	to the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
	The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	And to reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 808-930-825-5033.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
	You know, another detective just fast-blasted me the absolute truth, and it's as simple as this.
	If remains are found, and they're found to be differentiated from humans as DNA is concerned, Well, then there'd never be a prosecution.
	but on the other hand if the DNA were human, well, and then he goes dot dot dot dot dot
	and ends it there.
	Once again, Robert W. Morgan.
	Robert, oh, here's a question.
	Comes from up there near you in Montana.
	Chris asks, isn't it possible That these two had kids.
	Now, if they were shot at and wounded and or getting away, wouldn't the creatures you have described seem to me that they would be smart enough, even in times like that, to lead hunters away from their young?
	If they knew they were being fatally pursued, they would probably lead them away, wouldn't they, from the young?
	Well, that's exactly what Roger Patterson's female did.
	But I'm not sure that that would apply in this instance.
	I mean, when you get hit by three Marines with high-powered rifles, I think your instinct right at that moment is survival.
	And the fact that the female stayed with him.
	But I think those children, and they probably did have children, however, keep in mind, he said that they had a reddish brown hair.
	This would indicate to me that they were relatively young.
	So it may be that their parents, their parents, plus the grandchildren, if they had children, those are the ones that are keeping an eye on the farm out there.
	But a very astute observation, yes.
	And they would, if they had that ability.
	Of course, you know, myself, I have been wounded in the legs.
	And truthfully, at that time, I didn't think about anything except getting out of Dodge, you know.
	But I think those bigfoot just might have done that because of the Patterson film, primarily.
	Gotcha.
	All right, here we go again.
	First time caller on the line.
	You're on the air with Robert W. Morgan.
	Hello.
	Yes.
	Hi, Art.
	Yes.
	My name's Vinnie.
	I'm in San Jose, California.
	Yes, sir.
	And I have a fascinating show tonight.
	A couple of things.
	One, I think that in terms of protecting Bugs' identity and this whole thing, A possible strategy would be for you to be ordained as a minister in the Unitarian Universalist Church.
	I got that fact.
	I was so tempted a while ago.
	I was going to do it.
	I was going to send it in.
	I was going to be Brother Bell.
	Since you do act as a confessional, In many ways, with lots of people.
	No, don't kid yourself, it's a talk show.
	Yeah, but this Buggs was obviously confessing to you, and the amount of emotion... Obviously he was confessing, yes.
	And so... But it's a conditional confession, in the sense that we have to promise him... We have to assure him that there's no prosecution involved, and I can't figure out in my mind how to do that.
	Right, right.
	But in terms of you protecting his identity, if you became a minister, you may be protected from having to reveal his identity in that sense.
	Thank you, my son.
	You're very welcome.
	I don't think we can become ministers after the fact.
	That's right.
	The date would be wrong, wouldn't it?
	Oh, well.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Robert W. Morgan and Art Bell.
	Hello.
	Yeah.
	Hello.
	Yes, go.
	Yeah, actually my main comment was about what these Bigfoots possibly are.
	For thousands, actually at least a couple thousand years, humans and Neanderthals supposedly coexisted.
	And, of course, people believe that H became extinct.
	Yes.
	Isn't it remotely possible, particularly as widespread as Bigfoot sightings have been all around the world, particularly in North America, that small patches could have survived?
	No, it's entirely reasonable, of course.
	And the reason why nobody can find them is, of course, they stay in fairly remote woody areas.
	Actually, that's a pretty good question in itself.
	And Robert, that is, from what he said, you know, hardly any of them are seen.
	Very few are interacted with the way you're able to.
	You tell us, you've done.
	All of this.
	So if there are 2,500 or even 2,000 or 1,500, we should, it seems like, have a lot more sightings than we do.
	Or are you not surprised at the scarcity of the sightings?
	Oh, if you could see my files, I have so many sightings.
	So many people are he the big foot they don't know who to talk to because i
	thought the media and make fun of the people of church uh... shun them that's
	the only thing that will save me tonight is the fact that uh... leave me
	people are making fun of it and saying you know right before the whole year
	sure and and the idea of the whole thing here is that uh...
	believe me there are more frightening
	and you can shake a stick and and there are more people who have seen a big foot
	walking around and what you would ever guess if they would ever be honest and
	just walk over and tell you which has happened to me so many times.
	When I first went back to Ohio, I'd become pretty much of a West Coast and Florida snob.
	I thought the Bigfoot was only in the remote areas.
	And when the people back in Alliance and Canton and those areas tried to tell me I didn't believe them until I got an airplane and I flew the area and I took a look at it from a military standpoint.
	Could I take a platoon of rangers from the shores of Lake Erie down to, if I had to, to the Gulf of Mexico without being interacted that much with humans?
	And the answer came back, absolutely.
	I was stunned to find out just how closely people live and Bigfoot live in the proximity of what we call civilization.
	And they do very well because people don't want to see it.
	Number one.
	Number two, they don't.
	How many people do you know go out in the woods at night?
	And if they do, they go out with a flashlight and you can see them for a mile away.
	I just don't go into the woods at night.
	Oh, no.
	I don't do that.
	Actually, it's really nice.
	It's pretty, pretty nice.
	I'm sure it's wonderful, Robert.
	I'll show you.
	You're on the air with Robert W. Morgan.
	Hello.
	Yes, this is Art going from Arkansas.
	Hi, Art.
	Hey, Art, let me get serious for a moment.
	We have been talking about Echelon on the programs.
	They have satellites up there.
	Oh, sure.
	They know who Bugs is right now.
	They know who I am.
	If they want to know, they know.
	That's right.
	They have satellites up there, and they're looking over that area right now, and they probably know exactly where those bones are right now if they're there.
	Tomorrow morning they probably won't be there anymore.
	But that's a possibility.
	This is my opinion.
	The government is scared.
	And the government doesn't know what's coming down the line next.
	And it's my opinion, I'm telling the government, you don't know what you're doing.
	And the information needs to start coming out, and this is one of the best ways to do it.
	Well, you could be, look, you could be dead right.
	He could be absolutely right, Robert.
	In other words, if If we assume there really is government knowledge, for example, of the existence of these creatures, but for really large political, social, religious reasons, they
	They choose not to reveal that they have knowledge of this.
	Absolutely.
	You think that's the case?
	I know it's the case.
	Then his point was they could have already intercepted these communications.
	Oh, it's possible.
	And those bodies could be long gone.
	I would be damn disappointed if they didn't monitor your show.
	Because it's a wealth of information.
	Oh, they do.
	On the south slopes of Mount Rainier, they had a special forces training camp.
	This was just about three years ago.
	They had so much trouble with Bigfoot in the area, and they were ordered not to shoot, that they had to move the special ops camp.
	How do you know this?
	One of the guys started telling me about it.
	He recognized me.
	I'm minding my own bloody business in downtown.
	Uh, Seattle, uh, walking along, a guy comes up, he says, aren't you the Bigfoot guy?
	And I think, oh my God.
	And he says, come on, he says, let's go have a cup of coffee.
	Turned out that this guy was, was in the Special Forces.
	He was there.
	He was down at the, um, uh, Fort Lewis.
	And so when he found out that I, uh, what my opinions were, I mean, he grilled me for about a good hour.
	We ended up having lunch together and he finally told me, he said, listen, I'll tell you what, he says, in the north, uh, part of, uh, Of the south part of Mount Rainier, we had to move our camp.
	We had too much trouble with them.
	Now, that doesn't surprise me one bit, because the diamond-shaped area, if you look at Mount Hood, Mount Adams, Mount St.
	Helens, and Mount Rainier, that was my study area for 11 years.
	Gotcha.
	So, it didn't surprise me one damn bit, but I was so pleased.
	Again, I said, well, you know, you guys, he said, oh, no, he said, strict orders, definitely.
	We're not supposed to talk about it.
	He said, you don't know who I am, right?
	Remarkable.
	Greg, in California, doesn't specify where else, are we please ask Mr. Morgan what the average lifespan of a Bigfoot is?
	I have no idea.
	Any guesses?
	I would say probably similar to ours, perhaps a bit less because of their size and the rigors of their life.
	I would anticipate that an old one would be 50 years old.
	Build dwellings, and if so, what sort?
	They would build dwellings that would be very temporary and would be only for emergency purposes.
	There's so many reports I've had of them actually lying down in snow, the snow coming down, and a farmer waking up and finding three mounds in his field.
	He walks out toward the mound and they get up and walk away because they found the insulative properties of snow if you get under it work for you.
	So they don't build dwellings the way we would know them.
	Now, in the winters, it is possible.
	It is possible that they cachet food and that they actually go into a semi-dormancy state, but the Russians swear that they have discovered them this way.
	Okay.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Robert W. Morgan and Art Bell.
	Good morning.
	Yes, hello.
	Yeah, this is Kevin and I'm calling from Darrington, Washington.
	Okay.
	And I got a bigfoot encounter I'd like to share with you and Robert.
	Sure.
	Back, I would say back in the early 70s, my dad and I used to do a lot of high country backpacking with the horses.
	I would go on what they call the high hunt.
	And we'd go look for bear and stuff like that.
	Now this is going to sound really weird.
	This is early, early in the morning.
	We had a campfire going.
	The dog was laying by the fire and everything.
	And I decided, well, I'm going to go down the embankment and I'm going to take a leak.
	So I proceeded down the embankment.
	And here I'm standing there doing my thing.
	And all of a sudden, I looked up and from behind this stump, there was this reddish colored Bigfoot.
	That's kind of my story on that.
	just crouching down looking at me and I know that sounds...
	Well that'll break your concentration.
	But um...
	This thing was crouching there looking at me.
	Uh huh.
	And it put me in hysterics and I screamed and hollered and everything else and I...
	tripping and falling back to the campfire and...
	that's kind of my story on that.
	Uh, did you have time to zip up?
	I don't even remember.
	But most of the ones in my area, I've been told are like a grayish color or something like that.
	Yes.
	But this was red, and I got a good look at it.
	He was one of the younger ones.
	It's like all of us.
	When we were kids and our parents said, hey, don't mess around with XYZ or you'll get hurt.
	That's a dangerous area.
	What did it do?
	We went to check it out on our own.
	The young ones are usually the ones that are seen that way, the ones with the reddish color.
	The blacker they get and the older they get and then the gray ones, they're a bit more wise.
	They stay the hell away from us because they know we're dangerous.
	We're unpredictable.
	Right.
	Well, I hope I can see another one because that was something I'll never forget.
	I've told several people about it through the years and stuff.
	They say, oh, you're just telling stories.
	So far, the only people that believe me is my family.
	Well, just go out there and pee again and see what happens.
	Well, I'm up in the hills every week and I try to get about 5,000 feet up.
	And there you go.
	I'm up there every week and looking for anything that moves.
	All right, sir.
	We appreciate it.
	Thank you.
	Okay, thank you.
	First time caller on the line.
	You're on the air with Robert W. Morgan and Art Bell.
	Hello.
	Hi, this is Dave from Rockaway, Oregon.
	And I was in the military.
	I'm a Vietnam vet.
	And I was assigned to the 25th Infantry Special Forces Unit.
	And I know for a fact that I've been down an elk heading before.
	I was using a 300 Winchester with Safari Load, and I hit the elk right behind the right front shoulder with the broadside, and it took three shots to bring it down.
	That's a well over 300-pound animal.
	And so, what Bugs was saying is absolutely right on as far as I'm concerned about how many times you'd have to shoot one of those to bring him down.
	Does that sound right to you, too, by the way?
	It sounds right.
	I believe the man's telling the truth, and the thing is, I would suggest that he get too many clues out where he is.
	With the clues that he gave out tonight, if I wanted to, I could go in that area and I could come up either with a burial site or come up with another big foot in that area, you know, if I wanted to.
	Because he gave out way too many clues.
	I would suggest that you don't even play this tape or put it available to people because he gave way too many clues.
	Unless, hopefully, he threw us some red herrings, which he may have done.
	He was an old Marine.
	And just maybe he threw out some red herrings, I hope so.
	By the way, did you train at any stage of your training?
	Did you go up to Fort Lewis?
	Yes, I was there.
	I went from there to Vietnam.
	Well, actually to the Oakland Transfer Station.
	Are you familiar with that area I was talking about on Mount Rainier?
	No, I'm not in general terms familiar, but I want to tell you of an experience we had by a place called Old Station House in Northern California.
	We were going on our way to Nevada, and we stopped and rested back up against this fence in the woods.
	My friend had a .22 rifle, and he was out just messing around.
	I heard him shooting, so I woke up, and in the car we had a .30 caliber carbine, and I got out, and he jumped the fence, and he said it was big.
	It was reddish-brown hair.
	He came back, Up the hill from where he was, and he had about a two-foot strand, which we still have, of reddish-brown hair about two feet long.
	Oh, really?
	I'd like to send this.
	I've had it for since about 1989.
	I'd like to send some of this for DNA testing.
	Yeah, Ohio State University's doing that now.
	Send it to Art Bell, maybe.
	Send me some by all means.
	Okay.
	And send enough so I can share it with Robert.
	Okay.
	Well, I just wanted to say that I believe the man's telling the truth.
	And by the way, Charlie doesn't have any reflection.
	People don't have reflection in their eyes.
	I've never seen it at night time.
	I've been at night time, day time, middle time, combat, and I've never seen a reflection from a human eye.
	I have from animal eyes.
	They're different, as we know, but not from human eyes.
	I've never seen a reflection.
	When you're with infrared vision at night time, that's where it was developed in Vietnam.
	With microscopes or whatever.
	I've never seen any reflection of a human eye.
	I have caught pinkish glow from time to time, but it's very brief.
	It's usually what I've been using, a halogen type flashlight at night.
	But at an angle.
	Well, that's with maybe a flash or something like that.
	We didn't have halogen back in those days, like they do nowadays.
	And we had regular flashlights.
	And we didn't use flashlights.
	We were out there with infrared vision on night scopes and stuff, and we did a lot of recon.
	So I believe Buck is telling the truth, and I don't blame him for being worried, but I wouldn't suggest him giving it out anymore, whether red herrings or not, because he talked about the length of the creek and the name of the creek.
	Anybody with any knowledge and background like myself could go up there and I bet we could.
	Yeah, but without the map, I don't think you're going to find the spot to dig.
	I know, but I just want to protect him because I believe the man's telling the truth.
	Well, I do too.
	You bet.
	You've got to do something with this story, Art, because, I mean, like he used to say in Vietnam, show me the bodies.
	We believe we have it, you know, at a body count.
	They could be removed.
	There could be enough DNA left there.
	Okay, I want to say this one more time so everybody clearly understands it.
	I'm living with a promise I made to the man.
	In the end, this is going to be Bug's decision because he's laid down this qualifier that we can't proceed unless he's not going to end up possibly getting charged with murder or get in trouble.
	We have to do our homework before he does anything more.
	So with that promise, and you've got to understand it's a solemn promise, In the end, I think it's going to boil down to Bug saying, go or don't go.
	And that's going to mean, is Bug sure enough in his mind that what he shot had so many characteristics that were non-human that at this point he's ready to say, I'm sure of it, so go ahead.
	It's going to come down to that.
	I understand.
	He needs legal counsel.
	Well, thank you for letting me give my statement and story.
	Thank you for making it.
	Take care, sir.
	Thank you.
	All right, Robert, what a program, huh?
	Yeah, we have some fun, don't we?
	Well, I guess that's one way to put it.
	All right, the number for the incredible cassette that Robert has available is 1-888-295-2787.
	That's 1-888-295-2787.
	Ten bucks or something, worth every penny.
	Robert, thank you so much for being here.
	Anytime.
	Good night, my friend.
	I think we'll need to chat again soon.
	Yeah, I know.

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