Art Bell and Robert W. Morgan revisit Bugs’ 1975 Texas encounter—two 350-lb, 7–8 ft creatures with human-ape traits, glowing red eyes, and six-toed feet—buried near Elm Creek after fatal rifle shots. Morgan links them to Arkansas sightings and argues their intelligence (e.g., turkey-feather gifts) suggests a lost humanoid lineage, sparking debate over legal immunity if remains are studied. Colorado’s Bugs describes similar 8.5 ft Bigfoot warnings: a boulder in his tent and a pierced eyeball, while Oregon’s Vietnam vet confirms lethal encounters requiring multiple shots. Hawaii’s caller recalls a blue-shirted creature’s eerie scream, matching audio evidence. Government ties emerge—military reports near Mount Rainier and Fort Lewis, with orders to avoid shooting them—raising questions about suppressed knowledge. Without DNA proof or Bugs’ explicit approval, risks of prosecution or evidence tampering linger, underscoring the need for cautious, controlled exposure. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning or afternoon, wherever you may be across this great land of ours from In the West, Guam, the island of the Rock, East River, the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, South into South America, North all the way to the Pole and worldwide.
The old internet, this is Coast, Coast AM, and I'm Art Bell.
Glad to be with you.
It's going to be quite a programme tonight.
Coming up in a moment.
Some years ago, I interviewed a fellow named Bugs who claimed that he shot two creatures that he thinks might have been Bigfoot.
On my webcam, you will see a map.
Bugs has sent me a map of the burial location of whatever these creatures are.
I don't know that I like that kind of responsibility.
We'll ask Bugs here in a minute why he's sent it.
Robert W. Morgan, who is a premier Bigfoot investigator here in the U.S., and I thought he ought to listen to Bugs' story this time as we listen to it once again.
And maybe he has some questions that I forgot to ask.
Pretty serious subject, and why only half a map?
Well, that's obvious.
First of all, we've got a map to the burial location of two creatures.
We'll decide as the program wears on what it is these creatures are.
I'm going to introduce two people to you right now.
And so far, 16 people so far, by following that, have had face-to-face meetings, encounters with Bigfoot.
Yes.
And so what I'm trying here is, since I found that I needed an area where I wasn't known and where people would not waste their time playing nonsense and starting from scratch.
And at the same time, of course, I love Montana.
I've been in and out of Montana for 20-some years, and it's absolutely fabulous.
I'd gotten out of the Marines and came back home and I was farming.
And in that part of the year, this was cotton country up here, so we didn't have much to do in January and February except kind of sit around.
And we hunted a lot in that period of time because you had to wait until the freeze come for those pelts to cure.
For some reason, and I don't know, maybe somebody explained it to me.
But an animal like a coon or a coat or whatever, if you kill them before it comes a hard freeze, when you skin them, their pelts are blue on the inside.
After they dry out, if you kill them after a hard freeze, they're white.
I mean, but anyway, we come around this bend and come up over this rise, and there was a wheat field out in front of us, and just before we crossed this creek, and it was a valley down there, and it's probably, oh, I'd say it has wheatland right there, and it's probably a quarter mile or so wide from that road to the creek.
And it's probably a mile, about a mile long that runs alongside that creek, and it's flat, and that's fit.
And we come around this bend and up and over a little hill and dropped into this valley.
Well, just as we dropped into this valley, our lights hit, picked up a set of eyes.
And I hit the brakes.
I was driving, and Burger Dog, he come out on the side.
Robert W. Morgan, Bigfoot researcher, and Bugs, whose real name, by the way, I have, along with a map to the location of the bodies of whatever it is you just heard was shot.
This part of the country is sandy loam, and it wasn't silk sand, but it was sandy loam in that particular place where we buried them.
It was more of a gravel-type sand because it was, it did have some rock in it because that creek was probably, from the point we buried it, buried them, the creek kind of went south about probably 150, 200 yards, and then it turned back east.
And over the period of time when we had a lot of high rains in this part of the country, it would wash silt and such in there.
I think the fellow in Modesto is overlooking the fact that if these are humanoids, then under the American Constitution, they have civil rights, and Bugs is indeed Correct, he could be charged with manslaughter at least.
By the time we did the original show, by the time we finished the original show, Bugs was actually going to invite me out there and we were going to dig these bodies up.
It's too bad you didn't have a couple of body bags, huh?
That would have helped.
Because the idea is, since the, Art, you know my feeling about hunting and using guns on Bigfoot.
However, if the deed is done, there's nothing we can do, but we wouldn't want them to die in vain.
And if they can prove, Bugs, listen to me, please, if we can prove that they exist by virtue of two skeletons, then in effect, you are protecting the rest of them, because I'm very confident they're going to come out as humanoid.
So an act on your part at this point in time would indeed help protect the rest of them.
And you can trust me, although I'm not sure I'm happy I have the map.
If you dug the hole four to five feet deep, shot them at four in the morning, drove around, shot more, they would have been digging and burying in the daylight, correct?
You know, maybe for a hunter, it's not the same way, Bugs.
But when you look into a human's eye, You can see an intelligence.
I mean, you know you're dealing with an intelligent creature.
And I don't know if you had enough eye contact before or it all happened too fast in all probability.
But I wonder if you had a chance to look into their eyes and whether you discerned anything from that, whether you were dealing with an intelligence or something that was about to kill you.
No, Art, to be honest with you, it was just a quick, knee-jerk reaction, and it was fire because I just, I knew that I was in danger and I knew she was fixing to come after me.
And I knew it was a matter of a millisecond.
I either had to fire or I was gone and I didn't hesitate.
I imagine his, the pool of blood, I'm trying to remember now, but I would say it was probably where he was laying and he bled probably a foot and a half circle in diameter.
Well, you could find probably quite a bit of the skeleton.
You could, most importantly for us, I think it would be finding the teeth, because within the teeth, no matter even after many years, you can find viable DNA.
Well, I've heard that they found hair recently, and they do a DNA test on it, and it comes back as hominoid of some sort, unidentifiable.
So what do we get from that?
In other words, if you have a hair sample and they say, well, yes, it was some sort of mammal or hominoid in some way, but it's not identifiable, and that's the end of the story.
We had that in 1974, and we had that also in 1972.
Hair tells you quite a bit about the DNA, but it still will not convince science.
Now, if we can get a complete skeleton, especially if we have two, male and female, if there's sufficient bones there, they can be reconstructed and they can provide the proof that the Bigfoot A does exist, B, well, whether or not they are humanoid or whether they're pongidi or otherwise if they're human or ape.
It's possible, but I would say that, you know, I'm going to sound very, very weird here for a second.
If you would go out on the edge of that and hold your hands open and open to your side where they can see you have no weapon whatsoever, and this is going to sound strange to you, talk to them.
Just talk.
Whenever you have a feeling they're out there, go out and just let yourself go.
Tell them what you think and what you made a mistake.
You know, it doesn't hurt anyone.
It could help you, and God only knows they might understand.
Chris in Medford, Oregon asks, I was wondering how heavy these creatures were, and he thinks you can judge this because you all had to lift them to bury them, right?
Somebody else says, and maybe this isn't true, or maybe it certainly is, the only thing missing is the grief that he hides, that he has nightmares of killing the female.
Okay, remember now, you'll be able to get on, no problem.
www.arpel.com.
It'll be under what's new, which is the first item on the left when you load the website.
It'll say, let me see here.
It will say Bigfoot images.
And because we've got a hit here, because he says it's like number three, if you would go down and take a look at number three, I will call you back in about eight minutes.
The only thing about number three that I can see, the difference between it and what my recollection is, is the eyebrow area was a little less protruding.
I believe, and I'm not certain, but I believe, and now Robert will be able to tell us, he's the expert on this, but I think this might be from the Patterson film.
The male was a little taller, like I say, probably six, eight inches taller, and probably weighed, I'd say maybe 30 pounds more, maybe 40-something in that neighborhood.
They were both extremely muscular.
They didn't appear to have any, what I would call human-type fat on them.
And their abdom area, the mid-age bull, whatever you want to call it, they appear to be just very, very mustard-type people.
Robert W. Morgan back and Bugs, and we're not going to have Bugs for much longer.
So just a couple more questions, Bugs, and any Robert might have.
You could, you've given me a very detailed map, but Todd and Lakeside wants to know, could you actually walk to the spot where you buried them, no problem?
No other questions except that I will provide through you art, and if anything I can do to assist either of you or both of you, I'd be more than happy to.
Yes, but you know, what you did, though, was not, you did not know it was a Bigfoot.
You did not fire on it as a Bigfoot.
I don't see, if you had known what it was and you fired, that's one thing.
The first one that you fired on was at such a distance, and it was an irrational, or not an irrational, irresponsible act, but it's done.
What's done is done.
Secondly, you did the other one in self-defense, and I doubt that anyone is going to blame you for that.
I'm sorry that it happened simultaneously, but I think the furtherance for science and also the furtherance for the protection of the children of these two adults that are dead, they could benefit by the protection that this discovery could give them.
Because if they are humanoid, we can do a hell of a lot more than what we're doing right now.
They are in imminent danger, despite the laws that I've been able to initiate.
It does Happen.
And, you know, education and intelligence, intelligent application of law is what we need.
Because if you take a map and you followed the Red River, you know, it would lead from Arkansas nearly to New Mexico.
And I was just wondering if this was a possibility that this was a route that these animals travel and they go south in the winter and go north in the summer.
I would say they were younger animals than older ones because they just appeared that they were younger.
I hate to make this a, I don't know the word I'm looking for, but the equation to this to what I would say in a human factor, and this is the one thing that scared us, and I don't want anybody to take this wrong, but you have seen mentally retarded people, their facial features and everything.
That's what we thought we had done shot with some mentally retarded people that was living in the wild.
Yeah, well, I can't blame him with that, but his reactions and everything else shows a lot of humanity was brought out in this guy, and he realizes what he's done, and he's really, really sorry for it.
But, Gotti, you know, if we could get out there and get these bones before they're totally dissolved and the rodentia gets to them and everything like that.
He showed so much courage, much more than the average person, to come forward and to tell you about this and then provide you with the wherewithal to reveal this.
And, you know, that way, these deaths won't be for nothing.
And I think that what has happened is probably they tracked him, or maybe there were others in the area, although I kind of doubt it because they would have attacked him.
But they identified him, and they've been watching him, and I think they're pretty much sympathetic in a lot of ways.
God only knows.
I don't know.
I do know that if we were able to get down there, I think that we could go to that site.
If that, if, unless they went back, here's a question.
It just came to my mind.
Unless the family of the Bigfoot went back and removed those bodies, it is possible.
They do bury their own, and they have a very specific way of burying them.
Because obviously the male was either dead or dying and had gone to the female or the female had picked him up and carried him and took him into deep bushes.
I think they are an ancestor of humanity, of the Homo sapiens today.
We have this problem.
We have this blind spot, Art.
And that is, it was caused by our religions that told us that 6,000 years ago the earth was created and we were put on it.
And ever since that point, and it was created for us, we have the arrogance to believe that this entire world and all the animals and bugs and all this stuff is created for us.
But this audience, most of them would not have heard it.
All right, listen, Robert.
Hold on.
When we come back, we'll try and find out all we can about Bigfoot.
We'll pick Robert's brain, then we'll open the lines for a while and let you ask questions.
Pretty serious night.
And somebody asked, why am I smiling with that map?
Well, because I was on camera.
That's why.
unidentified
We'll be back.
Mississippi, in the middle of a dry spell.
Jimmy Rogers, on the liquor store up high.
I'm dancing, baby, on the shoulders.
Sun is suddenly dance on the sky.
I know you just need me now here.
I know that you have'cause there's magic in my life I can see for miles and miles and miles and miles and miles Oh yeah!
If you think that I don't know about the little tricks you play I'll never see you on the lip but leave but leave my way Well here's a broken view you're gonna choke on the tree You're gonna lose that smile because of the wild I could see for miles and miles I could see for miles and
miles You're listening to a special replay of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
This program originally added June 5th, 2001.
Please do not fall.
Wanna take a ride?
Well, call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
And to rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
I had no idea that Bugs was going to send me a map, number one.
Number two, I have his real name, and I've had it for years, and I've kept the secret for years, and I will continue to do so.
So here's my dilemma.
I have no illusions about what to this point has probably protected me from getting some sort of subpoena.
And I'm sure it's the fact that people disbelieve.
You know, they disbelieve, which maybe works for me in this case.
Maybe you can understand my thinking about this.
The authorities go, ah, we've got a lot more important things to do.
Good.
However, if I were to go down there and I were to dig up the area and I were to find, actually it's identified precisely on the map, and I were to find bones and I were to find the remnants of something that had been hominoid, I have no illusions about what would happen.
The police would move in.
There would be homicide detectives.
I would be under incredible pressure to turn over the information on the ID, which I can't do.
I promised I wouldn't, and I won't.
I can't really, without permission, turn it over to anybody else because Bugs entrusted me.
I probably ought to burn the map.
Really?
When you get right down there, I mean, I'll talk to Robert about this in a moment, but I have no illusions about what it would occur if I were to go down there.
I'd probably assuming that I found bones or remnants of these creatures, the police would be there.
The police would be there.
I would be questioned probably intensely by the police, and I'd probably get into a terrible row with them because they would be demanding the full information that I have.
So on the one hand, maybe it ought to re- Let me preface this by saying that I absolutely believe his story.
Believe as you will, I believed it when I first heard it.
I believe it now.
So I think it's true.
I think the can of worms, along with whatever's down there, would be opened up big time if I were to go down there and dig up these bones or whatever's left.
Probably bones at this stage.
Maybe skulls and teeth.
Maybe enough.
But it would look somewhat human.
And then the rest would happen.
maybe i'm wrong about that but i i don't think so you you All right, back to Robert W. Morgan.
I want to talk a little bit about the nature of Bigfoot, and we began to do that before the top of the hour.
I think you're between a rock and a hard space in one area.
However, at the same time, I think that even if they would be turned out to be humanoid, under the circumstances that it happened, I doubt seriously because of the circumstance, and I doubt seriously if any prosecution would when someone goes out and literally hunts Bigfoot and knowing what they know about the possibility.
If we brought up bones that were hominoid, there would be homicide police there, and then there'd be all kinds of hell to pay that I'm not sure I can pay.
In other words, I know who he is.
I have made a promise, and so I'd go down there, and I'd probably be slammed in jail or some damn thing if we got that far.
If I dug up bones, the police would be there guaranteed.
It'd have to be.
There'd be an investigation.
And the first question out of their mouths would be, who is he?
I don't know if it includes that much protection for me or not.
And I guess that would be a pretty key question because if there wasn't, you know, they've thrown an awful lot of reporters have been thrown in jail for contempt.
A second degree, all right, even a manslaughter charge, which would be the easiest thing I could think of, manslaughter, that would put you away for some years.
Well, I would go down and verify that they exist, and I would get the proper scientists behind me to make sure that we have a cross-index, that nobody jumps any guns, and we know exactly what the hell we're doing.
And we'd make a verification as to whether they are humanoid.
And from that point, we would have to take it from there.
I just can't.
It's going to be such a monumental undertaking and a discovery for science worldwide.
It's going to rewrite history books.
And this man is making a valiant confession that, okay, I did something wrong, but let me see if I can, A, cleanse my conscience and do something.
These people that are buried out there are dead for no reason at this point.
But at least they would have died for a reason.
And I think there's just, you know what we could do is take this to a judge in advance.
about we're not going to get another words of the judge would say look what if this is just some set you would have I'm not about to give immunity to somebody who may have killed two human beings and buried them and cooked up a story about Bigfoot to avoid a prosecution.
I'm not going to give immunity based on that possibility.
Well, if they turned out to be six foot tall human beings, hell, you'd be right.
But what we're saying is under the parameters, that they would fit the description of Bigfoot, etc.
If we actually drew the parameters, then the judge would say, all right, now look, if they're found under these parameters, then there would be no prosecution.
I don't know.
On one hand, the guy can just keep his mouth shut and to hell with it.
And nobody knows anything.
He's offering.
He has already done that, although he wants to wait until after he passes away.
well look I already And if I could let you, believe me, Robert, I would.
We'll see what Bugs decides to do.
If he wants you to have the information, then Bugs, let me know.
Otherwise, I don't know what the hell I'm going to do.
Let's leave it there for a second.
Now, a little more on Bigfoot.
You said part of our, you know, a step in our evolution is what you believe.
Yes.
So then ultimately, how do you think a court would rule if we began to have all the solid evidence we need that there really are these creatures and that there's somewhere in between an ape and a man?
Maybe not with the you know, he used an interesting phrase with apologies, retarded, he said.
Yeah.
And so then if these creatures are what you say they are, Robert, aren't they ultimately going to have the same civil rights and protections under the law?
As rare as they are, probably more protections under the law than the rest of us.
Well, in comparison to the human being, yes, they're very, very rare.
Absolutely.
But, you know, all of our history books, all of our anthropology books, our psychology, everything is going to have to make a shift because so much is involved here.
The stuff, the mythology that we have built around ourselves, you know, that we're kings of the universe, you know, and all this other stuff.
It's going to be a major earthquake.
And there's going to be a lot of scrambling to explain.
But these people, yes, under our Constitution, they have a helix.
I think you and I have gone through this before, but for your new listeners, they have a helix, which is the big toe.
This is only in humans.
They have the buttocks that we sit on.
That is not pungenti, that is not apes, that's human.
They have an articulated speech that you and I have heard on the recordings come back, in which they actually repeat English words.
So they have their own language.
They come back using English words in a proper way.
That's right.
When they responded, you're not welcome in that particular phrase, they were imitating what other people had said to them.
That was cognitive.
So here we have cognitive thought.
We have the opposing thumb.
Now we have the hyoid bone.
They habitually walk erect.
I mean, what the hell more do you have to have?
Of course, humans have an interesting thing.
Every time an ape or something gets close to them, they come up with a new, oh yes, but we do this, you know.
The gorillas are not worth a damn.
They don't have cognitive thought.
I think that's nonsense.
Coco has proven this many times over.
So we're in a bit of a dilemma here, and I think of all things, and I have to agree with him, and I know you don't like to have your popo padded, but the fact is I think he gave this information to the right man.
But at the same time, I think it would be well understood if you had.
I'm going to make sure that I send to you, if you'll forward it to Bug, a copy of that cassette of mine, because I want him to listen to it and follow the directions so that perhaps Bugs, and I know you're listening, I can teach you a way of going out and communicating with these people passively.
And something might happen for you, not to you, for you.
And that's what that tape was created for.
So I'll send it down to Art and I'm sure he'll send that on to you.
In other words, they understand the intentions as a creature does intuitively.
They understand your intentions.
Believe me, depending on how I approach my cats, they'll either take off running or they'll purr and throw themselves on their backs and their bellies in the air so they can be scratched, right?
And rubbed.
And that's what they love.
But if you come to them the wrong way, they can tell as you're coming up on them.
And, you know, they came up with this nonsense that, oh, the suit had been made by a Hollywood guy.
Let me tell you something.
If he'd made a suit that well with muscles moving at it, he would have sold that suit because Hollywood had nothing anywhere near like that.
Number one.
Number two, if he was playing a joke on Patterson, how did he know Gimlin wasn't going to shoot him?
Three, did Patterson do it?
Hell no.
He didn't have enough money for that sort of thing.
He had enough trouble feeding his family.
So number four, we discovered that because there was something wrong with the way that female acted.
She walked away in the middle.
She didn't run for the forest.
That bothered me.
And as I told you, my adopted father, Nino Kachis, finally kept pointing and telling me, hey, dummy, you're looking in the wrong area.
So one night when I was working on the eclipse and looking through it, I accidentally went off of color and I was looking at black and white and I scanned backwards and I found the young baby.
And then we look ahead of her, and here is this male leaning out, watching.
Now, hell, what is she doing?
She's saying, okay, two white guys, follow me, and I'm going to take you to Big Daddy, and we're going to knock your bloody head off if you mess around with our kid.
My guest is Robert W. Morgan, and we're talking about Bigfoot.
And he really is the man who knows about Bigfoot.
So, what can I say?
Stay right where you are.
lots more to come you All right, back to Robert W. Morgan.
We're going to get you on the line with him here in a second.
Shannon in Orange County asked, could you possibly ask Robert to email you the complete description or illustration of the location of the child Bigfoot and male Bigfoot in Patterson film?
This is Robert calling you from Jacksonville, Florida, W-O-K-V.
Yes, sir.
First of all, fully correct.
It's no longer retarded.
It's merely challenged.
Okay, well.
But my major question or thought is that I would hope, for humanity's sake, that this information would not be destroyed.
It would be, I don't know if Robert has the financial backing or if there's some way that we might be able to contribute to get a team that would be willing to go down there.
Could it be an archaeological dig or something like that?
I think as public as it is right now, sir, it is what it is.
My dilemma is what it is.
Period.
unidentified
I just hope that some way, somehow, that these two beings or whatever could contribute to, like Robert says, that we find out and they would be protected in the future.
You know, I'd like you guys to, you know, if it's possible, jump on it as soon as possible, find out from some legal people and reassure him that he's not liable for any type of criminal wrongdoing.
Maybe, or if you can, call him and get permission from him to be able to maybe fax that or to Robert, the map.
But you've got to understand, sir, from my point of view, only with Bugs' permission.
You see, I can't.
My promise was a very sacred one to originally do this show, and that was to never, to anybody, identify who he is or now, indeed, also where these creatures are buried.
I've made that promise, and I take it real seriously.
I've done it with a number of other things over the years, and I take it very seriously.
If we proceed down there and dig up bones in their hominoid bones, hominid bones, the police are going to be, you folks are going to be involved right away, aren't you?
unidentified
Not necessarily.
If you started out as an archaeological dig, it's completely out of our jurisdiction until we're called in to investigate a homicide, if the archaeologists think it actually is a homicide.
Until then, the police have nothing that they can do about it.
I'll tell you, most times I've heard when they turn up some kind of unidentified body and it's obviously been human or looked human or they find a bone, the police are almost there always right away.
From what I, everything I, you know, I watch TV, what do I know?
But that's how a lot of investigations begin.
You know, somebody digs up a mostly decomposed body of some kind.
Well, Detective, may I ask you, if we were to go into that area, would it be to our advantage to alert the state and tell them what we're doing?
unidentified
Ahead of time.
No, actually, the only thing that you would need to do is set it up originally from the word go as an archaeological dig looking for what I would term as old remains.
That's the way they do it here in Texas when they're doing Indian burial grounds up in Mexico in northern Texas.
And it occurs to me that one of the problems with this is that Bugs has already said that at the time they buried these creatures, they thought they had killed people who were developmentally disabled.
You know, you know, all this is really going to do, I'm with you, I know you're 56, and it would be years, or could be, and, Robert, it's a consideration.
All this is going to do is shift the responsibility from me to you, Robert, if you get this if you get this man.
A very old friend came by today Because he was telling everyone in town Of the love that he just found And the reasoning of his latest friend He talked and talked and I heard him say That she had the longest for his hair You take
yourself, you take myself on the road Another night, another day goes by I never taught myself to wonder I get to play my own You take
yourself, you take myself on the road I, I live among the creatures of the night I haven't got the will to try and fight Against the moon tomorrow I guess I'll just leave it Tomorrow will never come I said it's night I'm living in the forest of a dream I know the night
is not From the Coach to Post AM Archive, you're listening to the best of Art Bells.
This program originally aired June 5th, 2001.
Please do not fall.
Wanna take a ride?
Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
First-time callers may reach ART at area code 775-727-1222.
Or call the Wildcard line at 775-727-1295.
To talk with ART on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
One of the creatures of the night, that would be me.
Boy, I just put myself in all kinds of strange positions, don't I?
Well, I think that's what's protected me so far is that it's all pretty strange.
And until you take a step, like a physical step toward doing something, the authorities out there probably over the years have gone, ha, ha, ha, ha, Art Bell, huh?
Religious interference just might be a heavy problem for you.
You know, it's an interesting question, Robert.
If we were to actually produce a being that was intelligent, whose DNA set it apart from human beings and made it a rather obvious predecessor to human beings, that would be a problem for some in the religious world, wouldn't it?
You know, if we go back through history, Galileo, there's so many things that were stood in the way.
Liebenhoek, when he did the microscope, they tried to put him in prison because they said that the devil was painting those little microbes because they didn't believe germs were in there because it wasn't in their Bible, you know.
Well, neither is the panda bear, you know, but for God's sake, don't tell the panda.
These people are going to have to come to grips with reality as opposed to wishful thinking.
And some of them, I think, will attack, obviously.
But if the bones are there and the reality is there, I think they'll land on their feet and come up with some rational explanation that fits into their dogma.
If there was a debate, let's imagine for a second, Robert, that there was a debate about whether a prosecutor, for example, should pursue here what would happen if a prosecutor began pursuing it with pressure to lay this out as nothing more than a double homicide, let's say.
Let's put it this way, Robert.
I can imagine such pressure for reasons beyond simple prosecutorial consideration.
If I were a politician, if I were a politician, and thank God I'm not, but if I were, I believe under these circumstances, I would want to lead the church to find out exactly what these bodies are, and I would reserve judgment.
A wise man, if he doesn't know the answer, steps back and waits.
Yeah, and I think it's wise that we advise bugs to do that.
I think you should think about this overnight or more.
And, you know, I'm perfectly willing to turn over the information as he's requested, but I'm going to get a sort of a next day thing from him before I proceed.
I've waited too many years and worked too many hours and years to rush to judgment.
But if I were a politician, I think what I would say is what we're after here, and this is politically correct, is the truth.
And that's the major thing.
Is it true?
No matter what the outcome is, no matter how the chips fall, no matter what the genetic code comes out of the DNA, all we're interested in, all any of us, you, myself, everyone, we're interested in the truth.
Anyone who comes out against finding out the truth.
And for one thing, Bugs has just finished telling you, as he told me, that if there's any chance that he's going to get prosecuted out of this, he doesn't want to do it.
Yeah, we're reduced to discussing this on the air right now, but I guess that's all right.
Look, it's all laid out, so we might as well.
I just think, you know, you mentioned earlier trying to get some sort of immunity from this.
And I really can see going to a judge and trying that, but I can see the results of it, too.
I just, in my wildest dreams, I cannot imagine a judge offering Complete immunity based on a story like this that I thought it was Bigfoot's.
The judge and the legal system, I guarantee you, are going to think of this more like double murder than they are as anything else until the DNA tests are back.
They are, it seems like a primary vegetarian at first glance because of the greeneries that they do eat.
But oh no, they're hunters just like we are, hunter-gatherers.
unidentified
Well, they didn't like us in their area.
Two days later, when we got back to our humble, meager camp, one of them must have picked up a boulder approximately two feet in diameter and placed it in the center of our tent.
And there was a stick in the trail that was broken off a tree and it was forked and it was pointing downtrail.
And this is kind of gruesome, but there was an eyeball with a stick pierced through it laying on top of the stick.
The first night there, we heard, it sounded like a mountain lion, is what we thought they were.
Approximately four or five of them that surrounded us in this high country basin.
And after upon seeing that mule deer buck getting dispatched of that easily, and these creatures weren't small.
At first we thought it was a bear.
But when it stood erect and picked this mature buck up that probably weighed 250 and put it over its shoulder, I would estimate that they were probably 8.5 feet tall, both of them, dark-haired.
I don't think he would have stood up in court, and I don't think there would even have been a court trial because I'd probably be a very wealthy man at this time.
I don't know about that, but I'd probably have a price on my head from somebody or whatever, but I'm sure he would have been over my mantle.
Before we came over here, and by the way, this is a real, that was a hard story to follow.
Mine's not quite as interesting as that fellow's is.
It's all right.
We were in East Texas.
My son and I, husband, we had a farm down in East Texas in the piney woods.
And we were coming home from school one afternoon down a country road, not very traveled, me and my son.
And we topped a hill, and as we topped the hill on the dirt road, over about a five-foot fence jumped this creature, and it seemed to be in slow motion.
You know, he was going, going, going.
He ran across the road.
He went over the next fence, and they were brand new fences.
They were real tight.
They were real high and real strong.
And we approached it, and he was gone into the woods.
So I lived about three miles from there, and about a week later, at night, my dogs were barking, barking, barking, all night.
And so about 3 o'clock in the morning, I decided to get up, go out, and let them out of the kennel.
I walked about 25 yards, and I heard that exact same scream, yell that you've taped before of the Bigfoot.
And I stopped dead still in the middle of the night, and I thought, oh my gosh, what is this?
And I had 10 more feet to go to the dog, so I ran to the pen.
I let the dogs out, and the dogs ran straight to the house.
Well, the next day, I had a post in the ground.
It was seamen in the ground, about a foot deep in the ground, and that thing was broke off, smooth at the ground.
And I don't know how it could have gotten broke off.
But the sound that I've heard on your program was the exact same sound I saw.
No, I would anticipate that that is just merely a threat.
It's a warning.
It's saying, get the hell away from me.
I'm going to scare you.
I'm Joe Frankenstein.
And I've seen, see, they practice.
You know, they do this, and it's like you and I, when we were kids, let's go scare somebody and hang out in the, I think they actually enjoy some of that.
There was once a projection made about 2,500 in North America, but I think that is just simply a figure someone threw out at the time.
Somebody suggested Krantz.
Myself, I would not even begin to assume, because when I thought I was in an area with one family, it turned out that there was three, and I was stunned that there was one, and all of a sudden I'm finding three different groups.
And this was in the central part of Ohio, and just right near a place called Alliance, Ohio, where they've had this meningitis outbreak.
Just north of that, I thought I was following one family.
I I just need to know that you know it's the whole right to find the answer.
I used to feel hard to keep them both on one But the times have changed The less I say, the more I forgets done'Cause I lived free and still felt me a leader'Cause I'm the same as I walk on a place inside
They'll have got the fear to me You're listening to a special replay of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
This program originally aired June 5th, 2001.
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You know, another detective just fast blasted me the absolute truth, and it's as simple as this.
If remains are found and they're found to be differentiated from humans as DNA is concerned, well, then there'd never be a prosecution.
but on the other hand if the d_n_a_ were human well and he goes dot dot dot dot dot dot and ends of that the Once again, Robert W. Morgan, Robert, oh, here's a question.
Comes from up there near you in Montana.
Chris asks, isn't it possible that these two had kids?
Now, if they were shot at and wounded and or getting away, wouldn't the creatures you have described seem to me that they would be smart enough, even in times like that, to lead hunters away from their young.
If they knew they were being fatally pursued, they would probably lead them away, wouldn't they, from the young?
Well, that's exactly what Roger Pratterson's female did.
But I'm not sure that that would apply in this instance.
I mean, when you get hit by three Marines with high-powered rifles, I think your instinct right at that moment is survival.
And the fact that the female stayed with them, but I think those children, and they probably did have children, however, keep in mind, he said that they had a reddish-brown hair.
This would indicate to me that they were relatively young.
So it may be that their parents, their parents, plus the grandchildren, if they had children, those are the ones that are keeping an eye on the farm out there.
But a very astute observation, yes, and they would, if they had that ability, of course, you know, myself, I have been wounded in the legs, and truthfully, at that time, I didn't think about anything except getting out of Dodge, you know.
But I think that those Bigfoots just might have done that because it was the Patterson film, primarily.
One, I think that in terms of protecting Bugs' identity in this whole thing, a possible strategy would be for you to be ordained as a minister in the Unitarian Universal Church.
Yeah, actually, my main comment was about what these Bigfoots possibly are.
For thousands of, actually at least a couple thousand years, humans and Neanderthals supposedly coexisted.
And of course, people believe that they became extinct.
Isn't it remotely possible, particularly as widespread as Bigfoot sedges have been all around the world, particularly in North America, that small patches could have survived?
And the idea, the whole thing here is that, believe me, there are more sightings than you can shake a stick at, and there are more people who have seen a Bigfoot walking around than what you would ever guess if they would ever be honest and just walk over and tell you, which has happened to me so many times.
When I first went back to Ohio, I'd become pretty much of a West Coast and Florida snob.
I thought the Bigfoot was only in the remote areas.
And when the people back in Alliance and Canton and those areas tried to tell me, I didn't believe them until then I got an airplane and I flew the area.
And I took a look at it from a military standpoint.
Could I take a platoon of Rangers from the shores of Lake Erie down to, if I had to, to the Gulf of Mexico without being interacted that much with humans?
And the answer came back, absolutely.
I was stunned to find out just how closely people live, and Bigfoot lives in the proximity of what we call civilization.
And they do very well because people don't want to see it.
Number one, number two, they don't.
How many people do you know go out in the woods at night?
And if they do, they go out with a flashlight and you can see them for a mile away.
They have satellites up there, and they're looking over that area right now, and they probably know exactly where those bones are right now if they're there.
Tomorrow morning, they probably won't be there anymore.
Well, you could be, look, you could be dead right.
He could be absolutely right, Robert.
In other words, if we assume there really is government knowledge, for example, of the existence of these creatures, but for really large political, social, religious reasons, they choose not to reveal that they have knowledge of this.
And so when he found out what my opinions were, I mean, he grilled me for about a good hour.
We ended up having lunch together.
And he finally told me, he said, listen, I'll tell you what, he says, in the north Part of the south part of Mount Rainier, we had to move our camp.
We had so much trouble with them.
Now, that doesn't surprise me one bit because the diamond-shaped area, if you look at Mount Hood, Mount Adams, Mount St. Helens, and Mount Rainier, that was my study area for 11 years.
They would build dwellings that would be very temporary and it would be only for emergency purposes.
They don't.
So many reports I've had of them actually lying down in snow, the snow coming down, and the farmer waking up and finding three mounds in his field.
He walks out toward the mounds and they get up and walk away because they found the insulative properties of snow, if you get under it, work for you.
So they don't build dwellings the way we would know them.
Now, in the winters, it is possible, it is possible that they cache food and that they actually go into a semi-dormancy state that the Russians swear that they have discovered them this way.
Yeah, this is Kevin, and I'm calling from Darrington, Washington.
Okay.
And I got a Bigfoot encounter I'd like to share with you and Robert.
Sure.
I would say back in the early 70s, my dad and I used to do a lot of high country backpacking with the horses.
I would go on what they called the hide hunt, and we'd go look for bear and stuff like that.
And now this is going to sound really weird.
This was late in the, early, early in the morning.
We had a campfire going.
The dog was laying by the fire and everything.
And I decided, well, I'm going to go down the embankment and I'm going to take a leak.
So I proceeded down the embankment.
Here I'm standing there doing my thing.
And all of a sudden, I looked up and from behind this stump there was this reddish-colored Bigfoot looking right at me, just crouching down, looking at me.
You're on the air with Robert W. Morgan and Ark Bell.
unidentified
Hello.
Hi, this is Dave from Rockaway, Oregon.
And I was in the military.
I'm a Vietnam vet.
And I was assigned to the 25th Infantry, a Special Forces Unit.
And I know for a fact that I've been down the elk cutting before.
And I was using a 300 Winchester with Safari load.
And I hit the elk right behind the right front shoulder abroadside, and it took three shots to bring it down.
That's a little over a 300-pound animal.
And so what Bugs was saying is absolutely right on, as far as I'm concerned, about how many times you'd have to shoot one of those to bring him down.
Does that sound right to you, too, by the way?
It sounds right.
I believe the man's telling the truth.
And the thing is, I would suggest that he gave too many clues out where he is.
I bet you, with the clues that he gave out tonight, if I wanted to, I could go in that area and I could come up either with a burial site or come up with another big foot in that area.
And, you know, if I wanted to.
Because he gave out way too many clues.
And I would suggest that you don't even play this tape or put it available to people because he gave way too many clues.
Are you familiar with that area I was talking about on Mount Rainier?
unidentified
No, I'm not in general terms familiar, but I wanted to tell you of an experience we had by a place called Old Station House in Northern California.
We were going on our way to Nevada, and we stopped and rested back up against this fence in the woods.
My friend had a.22 rifle, and he was out just messing around.
I heard him shooting, so I woke up.
And in the car, we had a .30-caliber carbine, and I got out, and he said something and jumped the fence, and he said it was big, it was reddish-brown hair.
He came back up the hill from where he was, and he had about a two-foot strand, and which we still have, of reddish-brown hair about two feet long.
See, I have caught a pinkish glow from time to time, but it's very briefly.
It's usually what I've been using, a halogen-type flashlight at night.
But it's at an angle.
unidentified
Well, that's what maybe a flash or something like that.
We didn't have halogen back in those days, like they do nowadays, and we had regular flashlights.
And we didn't use flashlights.
We were out there with infrared vision night scopes and stuff, and we did a lot of recon.
So I believe Buds is telling the truth, and I don't blame him for being worried, but I wouldn't suggest him giving it out anymore, whether it's red herrings or not, because he talked about the length of the creek and the name of the creek.
Anybody with any knowledge and background like myself could go up there, and I bet we could.
Okay, I want to say this one more time so everybody clearly understands it.
I'm living with a promise I made to the man.
In the end, this is going to be Bug's decision because he's laid down this qualifier that we can't proceed unless he's not going to end up possibly getting charged with murder or get in trouble.
So with that promise, and you've got to understand it's a solemn promise, in the end, I think it's going to boil down to Bug saying go or don't go.
And that's going to mean, is Bug sure enough in his mind that what he shot had so many characteristics that were non-human that at this point he's ready to say, I'm sure of it, so go ahead.