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May 15, 2001 - Art Bell

02:47:03

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Exorcism - Bob Larson

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54:55

bob larson

01:08:45

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unidentified		Riders of the star Riders are the star into this house we're born into this world without Wanna take a ride?
		Call Art Bell from West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255 East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach ART at area code 775-727-1222.
		Or call the Wildcard line at 775-727-1295.
		To talk with ART on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't issue these warnings mildly.
		What you're about to hear is going to be scary, scary stuff.
		The Reverend Bob Larson is going to be my guest.
		And he's actually, for the first time on national radio anyway, as far as I know, going to provide us with audio from as many as seven different exorcisms.
		My only exposure to exorcisms has been, other than those interviews with Father Malachi Martin, we never had audio there, was the Exorcist movie, and that scared the heck out of me.
		So this is going to be kind of rough stuff tonight, seriously.
		So if there are kids in the room, or if you're one, you might not want to listen.
		Otherwise, directly ahead, beware.
		The Reverend Bob Larson is an expert on cults, the occult, the supernatural.
		He has lectured in more than 80 countries, has appeared on TV shows like Oprah, Donahue, Sally Jesse, CNBC Talk Live, MSNBC Investigates, Larry King Live, The O'Reilly Factor, Politically Incorrect.
		His work featured in the Los Angeles Times and the New York Times.
		Larson is the host of Talk Back, a coast-to-coast radio program, is the author of 29 books, holy mackerel, including Shock Talk, Dead Air, Larson's book of spiritual warfare, and extreme evil, kids killing kids.
		That's Bob Larson.
		We've got a link to his website on our website right now.
		Here is the Reverend Bob Larson.
		Bob, welcome.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Nice to talk to you, Art.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Been looking forward a long time talking to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've been looking forward to it myself, and it was quite a job getting to you, I might add.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your people protect you very well.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		I've got a lot of people out there who make my life difficult.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		You understand that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		I'm very protective, and I know someone like you can appreciate that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, that's something I wanted to bring up before we get into all we have to do tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have a lot of enemies, don't you?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Well, Jesus Christ did, so I guess I'm in good company.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess you are.
		But you do.
		I mean, you said when we first talked, I don't know, it was a couple of weeks ago, you said you're going to hear a lot from my enemies.
		And I have.
		They are relentless, aren't they?
unidentified		They absolutely hate you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, these are your enemies.
		A lot of people that love you, too, but I'm telling you, you've got serious enemies.
		So did my guest last night.
		Did you happen to hear any of my guests last night?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I really wish I would have.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		No, I didn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		His name is Matthew Alper.
		And he's written a book.
		He wrote it several years ago called The God Part of the Brain.
		Actually, it would have been a rather interesting debate.
		His contention is, simple, that mankind has one great overriding fear, and that is the fear of death.
		I would assume you probably would agree with that.
		His contention is that the process of evolution, which you may not agree with, has caused the brain to develop a part of the brain which can be measured and seen on MRI, by the way, which actually protects you, it protects everybody against that fear by instilling in them the need to worship something.
		In other words, basically, he's saying there is no God.
		What there is is a part of your brain that demands you worship.
		And as backup for this, he says you go to the most remote tribe in South America you can find or anywhere else in the world, and you will find they worship something and that man is driven to worship something and believe in an afterlife as a defense, the brain's defense, against this greatest fear.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		It seems to me that that's very much akin to what I would believe, that God's created a vacuum inside man that can only be satisfied in a relationship with God.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		And it could well be that he and the others are discovering what God did to the human nature of who we all are in the beginning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what I said to him.
		In other words, he can't prove a negative, of course.
		He can't prove there isn't a God.
		And I said, well, look, this spot of the brain that you have identified, science has now identified, why can't that be, in fact, from God?
		And, well, you know, he can't really deny that.
		So that's true.
		How long have you been a reverend?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		I've been in the ministry more than 20 years doing radio, television, writing books, traveling, and public speaking.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		It's only been in the last three plus years, going back to March 12, 1988, that I've actually been doing these public exorcisms that have created so much attention.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, by the way, Matthew Alper has as many or more enemies than you do.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm glad to know though.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		It's interesting to find somebody does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, anybody who doesn't have enemies is not making any waves at all, really.
		No kidding.
		And so I tend to have people sort of out on the edge, on the air, and that's just the way it is.
		And there's a lot of reaction to it.
		And you're a pretty controversial guy.
		You know that yourself, right?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do.
		In fact, I remember you making that kind of a comment in your book, The Art of Talk, which someone was kind enough to send me, and I did a quick read on.
		You mentioned that about people making waves.
		That's right.
		That, you know, if you're not making some waves out there, you're not making a significant impact on your world, and you're not making anybody upset.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		I don't make them just for the sake of making them, but I like things that are out on the edge.
		And if that's the way it is, and it's a natural thing, then fine.
		And that's what this is.
		I first explored Exorcism, other than the movie, The Exorcist, with Father Malachi Martin.
		Have you heard of him?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Almost certainly, certainly, a man that I wish I would have had the privilege of meeting who was obviously very courageous in his time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I knew him very well.
		I interviewed him many times on this program, and he told me about exorcisms.
		And what he had to say about them was chilling.
		I mean, really chilling.
		But hearing them, and I listened to a couple of tracks already.
		I didn't even have the guts to listen to all of these tracks.
		I listened to maybe the first two or three and I went, oh, man, this is really going to scare some folks.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to my world.
		That's my life almost every single day.
		We do what we call spiritual freedom conferences around the country every single weekend.
		In fact, we'll be in Las Vegas in a couple of weeks on the first and the second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, just may have to drive up to Prompt while I'm there.
		But yes, and what you hear is just, you know, on this CD that we said was very typical.
		I hear this all the time.
		And of course, it's not just hearing those voices.
		It's looking directly into the eyes, into the soul.
		And literally, I get eyeball to eyeball with these people, man.
		I'm literally maybe an inch or two away from their face as those voices are speaking.
		And you literally look into the abyss of hell as you hear those voices.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have you have no doubt whatsoever with regard to the existence of heaven and conversely hell?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		No.
		And neither really does anybody who come to our conferences.
		I tell them, you will never walk away ever again questioning whether there is a God or a devil, whether there's good and evil, because you will see it dramatically displayed.
		And I've seen it so many thousands of times, it's made an imprint on my soul that nobody could ever take away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's obviously good and evil.
		The question is whether there is external good and evil.
		You have defined, let's go over some of the definitions.
		That's probably useful.
		What is possession?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's, you know, semantically it's a term which, for practical purposes, has an explanation.
		But in the spiritual realm, it doesn't really mean much.
		So let me caution by saying I always tell people up front, first, we're talking about a metaphysical, invisible phenomenon that is non-spatial.
		We're trying with a construct of language to give it sense and meaning.
		Well, really, you can't do that.
		Furthermore, you're trying to use English language terms to describe the inexplicable.
		Now, having said that, classically what we define as possession is when an evil spirit or a demon somehow resides within the person to the extent that neuropsychologically they can express themselves through the faculties of the person.
		In other words, they actually use the body, the eyes, the voice for a form of expression.
		And they become when they are out or manifested or present that being through the body of that person.
		Case in point, I remember one particular instance I've written about in one of my books of a girl who was legally blind.
		In fact, she had to be led about by the hand.
		When the demon was out, and there were many witnesses to this, the first thing we knew that when the demon was coming out, it would reach up and take her glasses off and see, I hate these things.
		They get in my way.
		And it would, you know, I had it a fine print Bible and it read it holding it two feet away without any problem.
		But when she came back to herself, she'd immediately reach for the glasses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What happens to the host during the time that the possession is ongoing and the demon or whatever is out?
		What happens to the soul, the spirit of the possessed?
		Where is it?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Well, we really speak of the consciousness or the soul part of the person, which is the animating life force of emotion and the sentient nature of who the person is.
		One of two things, either oblivion or what we call co-consciousness.
		We have some people for whom while we're doing an exorcism, there is no awareness.
		They've checked out.
		They don't even know what happens.
		They may come two minutes or hours later with no knowledge of what went on.
		Other people, and this is very common, have co-consciousness.
		And while the exorcism has taken place, I've had them describe it to me.
		They say it's like a movie in the mind.
		I see and hear what's happening, but I am powerless to intervene because something else is expressing all of this through my body and my lips.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they actually feel that and see that as they would in a detached manner.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but they have no way when the demon is out.
		The demon is, for example, speaking through their voice.
		Maybe we run into this office speak in a foreign language through their voice, and they're hearing this language come out of their body through their lips.
		They know they're not speaking it, but they hear it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you familiar with out-of-body OBE experiences?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure you are.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Yes, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've had a whole bunch of a whole string of guests, experts on OBEs, and I had one very brief, uninvited OBE myself, and so I know there's something to it because it happened to me.
		Anyway, bottom line, all of these guests inevitably say, nothing bad can ever happen to you when you're out of your body.
		Don't worry about it.
		Enjoy it.
		Explore it.
		Use it.
		And I've always thought, well, if you're out of your body, would that not be some sort of possible invitation for somebody out there looking for one to take over?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		You got it.
		That's exactly what can and does happen.
		In fact, I've encountered many cases of possession that occurred when people, for whatever reason, had OBEs.
		Because at that point, the animation of the will or the process of the moral defense of human nature is sort of in neutral.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then these guests that I've had, I've challenged them again and again and again on this point, and they always say, no, no, it's safe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're saying, no, no, it is not safe.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Well, I remember one particular gentleman talking about the typical experience of floating above your body, seeing the core, sometimes they describe it as a silver cord or whatever attached.
		He's up there, and he saw this dark shadow moving toward his body.
		And he knew that he had to get back there quick or that thing was going to get in.
		And it was a race for him to get back before this dark shadow came into it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		strange you would say dark shadow uh...
		you know that's something else that i've been really i i i i i i i i A little bit of it, yeah.
		Did you happen to hear the psychiatric worker who called?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		I did not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You didn't?
		One day I had this person call and say, you know, Art, I've been seeing these, what he called, shadow people in my peripheral vision.
		You know, how you sometimes see a little movement in your peripheral vision, something moving, and you look over and there's nothing there.
		And then I had, I tell you, Reverend I had five, maybe 6,000 emails from people who said, not only do I see these so-called shadow people, that's what they call them, but I'm beginning to see them with full-on sight.
		And so I did a program on it, and I had a Native American guest, and we had people begin to send in drawings, images of what they were seeing, and they were remarkably similar.
		These shadow creatures or beings that people are beginning to see in increasing numbers, something's going on.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have, of course, dealt with many such cases in which these were the manifestations of the presence of a demon.
		It's always possible some of this could be a psychological phenomenon for whatever reason.
		Could be.
		But in many cases, I will have people, as they describe demons, all the way from fang creatures with blood dripping from their mouths to just a dark presence that's there with no visible expression, almost formless.
		That's right.
		It'll be hovering over in a corner somewhere watching them.
		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you think these are...
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Well, a demon specifically is a fallen angel.
		Part of, according to Revelation chapter 12, the one-third of heaven's angels who were in the insurrection originally with Lucifer.
		And they were cast out of the heavens, and they are now these disembodied spirits who are looking for a way to destroy the goodness and the purposes of God.
		And because the devil is a spirit, he must bring about his ultimate evil through his presence in human bodies, because there's only so much he can do in the ethereal world of the metaphysical.
		Just like God, by God's presence in our lives, we are his hands, his feet, and when we love our neighbor and help our fellow man, we are expressing the will and purpose of God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But God never seems to manifest himself even through others in the way that demons do, or is it simply not as dramatic?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Well, God does, but God never takes over.
		God is a creature of love, so he submits himself to our will, and we by moral choice then choose to do good as an expression of him.
		But evil is not quite so nice about how they go about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		God is the one who gave us free will, so he would obviously not be the one to take it away with possession.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		But the devil has no such compunction about that.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		And so the devil will take over someone to cause them to commit heinous acts from murder to mayhem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		well as you know we're in a time in america now where indeed uh...
		you can pick up a newspaper almost any day or any week i guess i have to say and a child killing a child a child killing a teacher a child killing a parent it's all it's just That didn't happen.
		This is a relatively recent phenomena in the kind of numbers we're having right now, is it not?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
		The kind of evil that I wrote a book about, called Extreme Evil, is very different.
		It's an evil over the edge that we've never known, certainly in our culture.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what do you think is driving it?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Well, take, for example, the shooting in Santee, California a couple of months ago.
		Little Andy Williams.
		One of the most remarkable things about that is that here's a kid, no prior criminal history, a little messed up, but certainly no one that you would think would have the capacity to murder in cold blood.
		More importantly, smiling while he's pulling the trigger.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		This is an obvious giveaway.
		This is not just a deranged mind.
		In fact, the kid who sat in court seemed to be almost detached from knowing, having any relationship to what he did.
		Why?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I agree.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Because while he was doing it, he was animated by a deep internal evil that was smiling through his lips as the trigger was pulled.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On that note, hold on.
		We'll be right back.
		The Reverend Bob Larson is my guest.
		And what lies ahead is pretty dark stuff.
		So be aware and be warned.
unidentified		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast A.M. Wanna
		take a ride?
		Well, call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
		The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		And to recharge on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Arpelle on the Premier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll give one last warning.
		My wife listened to some of these things that you're about to hear, some of these excerpts from Exorcisms, and she said, be careful.
		That kind of thing opens doors.
		And I don't know that that is true.
		We'll ask the Reverend here shortly.
		Maybe it does.
		At any rate, it certainly is rough stuff, not for kids.
		So please adjust your listening accordingly.
unidentified		It's going to get rough.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, the Reverend Bob Larson, welcome back, Bob.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have some definitions here with regard to what makes a person susceptible to demon possession in the first place.
		And there are some pretty rough categories here.
		What does make a person susceptible or likely to invite such a thing?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Any number of things.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Someone may be cursed from a past generation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So curses are real?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Oh, very, very real.
		I constantly deal with people who in their bloodline have carried the spiritual genetic imprint of something that may have happened hundreds of generations ago that they know nothing about.
		It's very common to find that somebody way back when made a pact with the devil or whatever, and as a result, that follows down through the family line.
		Now, there is free moral choice, but the person is born into this world with that demonic vulnerability.
		And they have to make their own choices, but they've got two strikes against them before they step into the box.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then, by extension, witchcraft is real.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely, it is.
		Those kinds of powers are real.
		Now, we're not talking about the superstitious kind of witchcraft or the sort of, you know, go in the woods and dance naked and pretend.
		We're talking about the real thing of real malevolency where people genuinely have evil aims.
		And then, of course, you can willfully allow yourself by creating circumstances of grave moral evil and by just playing with the occult, by venturing into territory where you're unprotected, don't know what you're doing, and don't have God's presence with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ouija boards.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Abuse, sexual molestation, incest, addiction.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		The biggest form of possession in our culture is through sexual violation.
		Because it destroys what I call the spiritual immunology of an individual's natural protective systems.
		I believe God grants each of us in this life a sense of well-being and character that doesn't want true evil.
		We come into this world with a fear of evil.
		But what happens is that when we're violated, we are so decimated in the strength of the character and integrity of value and worth, we become an easy target for evil.
		So a high percentage of the people we deal with have been incested, molested, horribly violated, particularly as small children.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Father Martin said to me frequently that there's a very large body of people walking in our population who are what he called perfectly possessed.
		And by that he meant, he said, I know them.
		When I pass them on the street, they have, in effect, made their deal with the devil.
		And frequently they are successful people.
		They are politically powerful people.
		They are very well-to-do people.
		And they are, in fact, perfectly possessed.
		They just made some kind of compact at some point with the dark side.
		And they're doing well here, but may not do so well ultimately.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		I would agree with that completely.
		And I encounter the same individuals.
		And they seem to be those folks who don't have a sense of moral conscience who are absolutely detached from their actions.
		Well, Timothy McVeigh is maybe quite obviously the most perfect example in front of us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No compass at all.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
		They've lost their moral compass.
		Now, you know, I believe that God always leaves a shred of light within every individual that if they will turn to that, there is hope for them.
		And I've often said, you know, if you've got 1% left of the moral consciousness of God, Satan can never totally dominate you.
		But there are those people who reach the 99%, and there's not a lot of hope for them unless they truly strive toward God.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Catholic Church really puts any individual claiming possession through the grinder before they will agree.
		It's very rare they agree to do an exorcism.
		What is the history of exorcism, and how did you get involved in this very strange, unusual ritual?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Well, those are really two questions.
		The history of exorcism, of course, is as old as antiquity.
		There's evidence of this in all cultures of the past.
		And certainly even at the time of Christ, there were Jewish exorcists who traveled the country.
		And when Christ came along, what was truly significant was the fact that he declared to be able to do this through the power of his name, not some ritualistic formula.
		And then the early church practiced it quite commonly.
		It was lost, and then the Reformation didn't do it much good, although it resurrected it for a while.
		It's only been in the last few decades that it's come to prominence once again.
		Now for me, I first encountered the demonic traveling overseas as a young man and witnessing various pagan self-mutilation rituals.
		And as I witnessed these rituals in various parts of India and Asia, when these people would go into catalyptic seizures, as they would maybe be, you know, going through these bloody ceremonies of stabbing themselves or puncturing themselves, whatever, they would say, this is the evidence of the spirits entering into us.
		Well, I saw that, and I prayed a simple prayer that is one of the most dangerous prayers to pray.
		Lord, use me if I can be of help in this area.
		And I returned to America, and as I write about in my book of spiritual warfare, nothing much happened for several years.
		I began to study the phenomenon until one night in St. Louis, Missouri, a 15-year-old girl walked up to me and said, I have sex with the devil.
		Of course, I thought this was a joke.
		I thought this was just a kid with an overactive imagination.
		And I tried to put her off.
		She kept saying, no, you don't understand.
		I have sex with the devil.
		And the next thing I knew, this unearthly voice was speaking out of her body.
		This is a 15-year-old, not terribly cultured girl from sort of the backwoods of Missouri.
		And this very refined British accent in this voice is saying, you cannot have her.
		She is mine.
		Leave her alone.
		That was my introduction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How, Reverend, do you delineate between the possessed and the mentally ill?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Well, I do my best, and it's really not very hard because when people will come to me and say things like, well, I hear voices, well, my first question is, you know, are you on your lithium?
		I mean, have you seen a mental health professional?
		And sometimes when they say they have it, I say, go back and see one and then return to me and we'll talk again.
		The truly possessed have some of the characteristics of the mentally ill, but in the thousands of cases I've dealt with, these are people who for the most part are very lucid.
		In fact, I really don't want to deal with someone who is mentally ill who may or may not have demonic phenomena because it's just dangerous territory to get into.
		I prefer that person to see a mental health professional and come to me sometime later when they're in a more stable mental state.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But speaking of dangerous, I mean, the rights of exorcism, I am told, have been told, it can be extremely dangerous for the exorcist.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		Well, I mean, on a regular basis, I mean, on a weekly basis, I am assaulted, threatened.
		In any one single weekend, I am told by spirit voices that they're going to kill me so many times I can't even count it.
		I mean, I live under the constant threat of these things promising all sorts of mayhem on me and my loved ones.
		So that's very typical.
		And yes, I have been violently assaulted on numbers of occasions.
		I'm always very careful that before I go into a meeting where I'm going to do exorcisms, I ask for several large men to be at the ready to tackle people, hang on to them.
		And I've seen cases where a 95-pound woman can't be controlled by eight men.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've heard of that.
		And I have no people have been known to, when their children are under cars, pick up automobiles.
		And I guess the strength comes somehow from the same place, doesn't it?
		Beyond yourself, more than you could possibly do.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, this is more than an adrenaline rush.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		More than that.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's more than that.
		I mean, I've seen a frail woman, you know, pick up a 200-pound man with one arm, just lift him in the air.
		And this is not, again, since I've been doing this publicly for three years, I have done hundreds and hundreds of these in front of thousands and thousands of people.
		So these are not just stories.
		These are things which have occurred in the full view of people witnessed by thousands and scores of cities across America.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you eliminate or reduce the risk of whatever it is jumping to you?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm always very cautious.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		When I approach it, I've learned to sort of tell when it's about to explode.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever made a mistake?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And, you know, a couple of times I've been blindsided.
		A woman one time hit me from the rear.
		I wasn't looking.
		I was looking into another part of the audience, and she got down on top of me, took my tie, twisted it, and was choking me.
		And four or five men had to literally drag her away, or she would have choked me to death.
		I've been kicked very violently, hit, bitten, spit on constantly.
		But again, I've learned how to be cautious about that.
		And so what I tell these men, I just say, look, if you see me start motioning to you to get kind of behind this person, and I'm starting to, if they're about to explode, I'm going to look at you, grab them.
		And don't hesitate because I don't want them hurting me or themselves.
		I've got a wife, two children, one on the way.
		I want to come home safely to them.
		I hear you.
		And people will say, well, if it's God's power, well, now, wait a minute.
		There is also the human will involved here, too.
		And so when you first begin to deal with someone in an exorcism, you're dealing not just with the evil, but the will of the person which may have been acting in concert with that demon.
		In other words, they may have been, until now, allowing that demon to use them for violent purposes.
		And so you've got to, when you first encounter them, talk that person into a moral state where they will resist that evil because they may not have been doing it.
		And so you've got the cooperativeness of the will and the human strength versus the supernatural.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you must have a lot of work because I'm sorry to keep referring to Father Malachi, the late Father Malachi Martin, but he taught me so much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And one of the things he told me was he took care of the Manhattan area in New York.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Oh, a lot of them there, I can imagine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he said, Art, in the last year or two, the need for exorcism in my area is up by 800%.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, if we are to imagine a war between heaven and hell, between God and the devil, and we have numbers like this appearing before us, what does that mean, Reverend?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		It means several things.
		First, that we are near the return of Jesus Christ, and as prophesied, there would be an outbreak of evil.
		It also means that the breakdown in the moral fiber of the country, which has previously restrained evil, has made it more bold and more free to function than ever before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the devil's getting a pretty good foothold, and we're making it easy for him.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Oh, we're making it very easy for him.
		And if you just look at the violence and the level of inhumanity in our society today and how little is done about it.
		I was told recently by a prison chaplain in a large state that over 13 prisons that he looks after, 80% of the juvenile offenders in there have been sexually violated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		80%.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		80%.
		And what are we as a culture doing to address that?
		How often are the pedophiles turned back out on the streets again to torment our children?
		What are we doing remedially to help people who got in that place because the abused became the abuser, became the abuser, became the abuser?
		We've got this cycle of abuse and violence in our society.
		We're simply looking the other way and not doing too much about it, and the devil has a heyday in that realm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is the United States unique in that, or is it equally prevalent worldwide?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		The United States and the Western world is unique.
		I was asked this question in a conference this last weekend by a man of East Indian descent.
		And I responded to him.
		I said, you know, if I were to go to India, I certainly would meet demons.
		But I would not encounter the level of perverted, violent demons that I encounter here.
		Because I said, even though by Christian standards, India is a pagan, idolatrous country, it in fact has a very strong moral fiber, as does much of the Far East, and it has a strong nuclear-extended family structure, which is a deterrent to evil.
		Because people have a sense of belonging and acceptance, and humanity is not devalued.
		But we have devalued humanity in American culture, which has given the devil free reign.
		So I said to this man, I would not think of dealing with violent demons of rape and incest and crime and abuse in India, but I certainly would be sensitized to dealing with that in America.
		So in some ways, we have become the most evil culture on earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have any idea of why that is, Reverend?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, what evil turn have we taken?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think, first of all, as I said a moment ago, the lack of the extended family.
		Where you have strong family structure, you have accountability.
		You have people also who have a sense of value and worth.
		I'd say that an extremely high percentage of the cases I deal with, maybe half or more, are people who have never known love.
		Their parents abandoned them.
		They've never known a significant person who cared about them intrinsically for who they were.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but here's what confuses me.
		In a country like India or China or Japan, which is all these non-Christian countries, you would think the devil would just have a heyday because nobody's going to be calling out the name Jesus to get rid of some sort of demon nearby, right?
		Nobody's going to be calling it.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		That is true.
		But remember, the devil not only traffics in the absence of the knowledge of God, but in the presence of the destruction of innate humanity.
		In other words, the devil's greatest ability to get someone is found when that person lacks the moral fiber to resist evil.
		And a lot of that moral fiber comes from what I call the sense of character, belonging, and virtue, the identity we have from those who have loved us and told us our life has significance.
		And the person who doesn't see significance in his life, you know, what's the problem with evil?
		What has he got to lose?
		What did Eric Karis and Dylan Klebold have to lose?
		I mean, they are typical of the lost souls of the children of our culture raised in an environment where there is no sense of moral fiber, accountability, or meaning based upon a parent who has said, I love you, care about you, I will give your life significance.
		And that kind of person, evil becomes quite attractive to them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then these are all signs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And these are all signs of an acceleration toward the end of everything, toward the return of Jesus?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		I believe that.
		The Bible says Satan has come down with a great fury, knowing that his time is short.
		Now, the Bible teaches Satan does not know when the end shall be.
		No man knows that but God the Father.
		However, he certainly has a good cultural sense of seeing how near we are to complete moral chaos.
		And as a result, he has sort of held back until now, but he has no reason to hold back anymore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it safe to listen to what we're about to listen to?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		I believe it's safe, yes, as long as someone would not entertain some type of healthy fascination.
		You know, I was doing an exorcism one time, and there was someone who was present, and as the demon was about ready to leave, the person said, hey, you can have me.
		That was a very good idea.
		Dumb thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bad idea.
		Darwin Award winner.
		We'll be right back.
		Reverend Bob Larson is my guest.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		I'm Art Bell.
		Then you want to see the big father.
		Oh, it's the beauty of you used to be so nice.
		Lonely days turn to lonely nights.
		You take a trip to the city lights.
		You take the long ways home.
		You take the long ways home.
		You never see what you want to see.
		Forever playing to the gallery.
		You take the long ways home.
		You take the long ways home.
		When you're up, one mistake is so unbelievable.
		Oh, unforgettable.
		I may adore you.
		Then your wife seems to think you're losing your sanity.
		Oh, calamity.
		Oh, there's no way.
		Wanna take a ride?
		Call our bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
		A wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		And to call out on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Last warning.
		This hour, we're going to begin playing some audio from actual exorcisms.
		And to many of you, this is going to be very disturbing.
		So last warning.
		All right, now we're going to do something we've never done before.
		We're going to play a series of audio clips the Reverend Larson has provided of actual exorcisms.
		Let's do it, Reverend.
		This first clip that we're about to play, I presume that you have some background for us on what we're hearing?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure exactly which order you have them here.
		I think I know which order you have them.
		Yes, if it's the one I think it is, this is Shane.
		Shane was in Chesapeake, West Virginia.
		And it was in a public meeting in a school auditorium.
		And he was seated on the front row.
		And I simply, as I was speaking, walked in front of him and this hideous growl came out of his body.
		And then you hear a little bit of the conversation that ensued after that growl.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's do it.
unidentified		Here it is.
		Say I death.
		I dearth.
		Renounce.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Say I renounce.
unidentified		Say I renounce.
		I renounce.
		all claims all claim all clairs the shame uh...
		that's uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's really difficult to listen to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was coming out of a young man.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Young man in his early 20s.
		He was there with, I believe, with his wife that night, the father of a new little baby girl.
		In fact, I was back in that part of the country sometime after that, I don't remember how long.
		And he came to another one of my conferences and came up, big smile on his face, gave me a big hug.
		He was there with his little girl and his wife.
		Totally, absolutely changed a man once this exorcism was over with.
		Absolutely changed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What happens to these demons?
		I guess they're demons.
		What happens to these demons when they leave the body?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've said tongue-in-cheek, I'm the only minister in America that gets the privilege of telling the devil to go to hell on a regular basis.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		And that's literally what happens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they return from once they came.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		We send them to the abyss or hell to torment.
		And they stay there.
		The Bible is not really clear on this.
		The Bible does teach that some fallen angels, some evil spirits have to stay in torment because of what it says they left their first estate.
		And there are all sorts of theories about that.
		But the rest of them seem to be until the end of time, as prophesied in the Revelation, they have the ability to come back out of the abyss if there's a willing recipient.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Otherwise, until the end of time.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Otherwise, they stay there in torment unless there's someone who welcomes them back out and gives them an assignment, so to speak.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When the end comes, I'm not much of a churchgoer, Reverend, and I've seen movies like The Seventh Sign, for example.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I suppose you saw that.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		is that the way it's going to happen that was Hollywood's way or is that pretty close to it's We have a broad general picture of what's going to happen at the end.
		We know that there will be a terrible moral decline, a tremendous increase in technology.
		Oh, yes, absolutely.
		And that's one of the things the Bible talks about, the exponential increase in knowledge there will be at the end.
		But that only leads further to the arrogance of man of thinking he can solve all his problems.
		And then there are divisions within the Christian community as to what will happen next.
		Some believe that, as a popular book series has posited recently, that Christ will return and there will be a rapture in which millions of Christians will disappear, followed by seven years of hell on earth, at the end of which will be Armageddon and the final battle between good and evil.
		Now, I happen to ascribe to that particular belief, but there are many well-meaning Christians who don't.
		All do agree, pretty much, that there will be at the end of the age a massive Middle East conflict in which the armies of God and the armies of the devil will face each other, and it's at that point then that the Revelation tells the final defeat of the enemy will be brought about and Satan will be cast with all of his demons into the lake of fire.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, first of all, I don't think all Christians are going to get sucked up at all.
		I know too many Christians who I am afraid will preach at you all day long.
		And then, frankly, they're some of the most unethical, immoral characters that I know, and they're going to be stuck down here with the rest of us.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Some of them have demons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe that's it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe that's right.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Well, that is it.
		That is it.
		That's why they claim to be followers of Christ, but they actually have evil spirits inside them causing them to act quite to the contrary.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Here's another one.
		This is Jeff.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What can you tell us about Jeff?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		This is a real interesting one.
		And for sake of documentation, as I remember these, I'll tell you exactly where they happen.
		This was in the city of Red Deer, Alberta, Canada.
		In a workshop in one of our conferences, Jeff is 6'5 ⁇ , about 250, huge man.
		In the middle of the conference, again, witnessed by hundreds of people, he stood to his feet and started lumbering toward me in sort of Frankenstein style, just like he couldn't quite walk.
		He was just lumbering.
		And his first words out of his mouth as he stood were, do I murder you now or later?
		He came toward me and he hovered over the top.
		And I'm 5'8, okay?
		He hovered over the top of me with his hands shaking around my throat, just, you know, millimeters away from my throat, uttering curses against God.
		And the only thing between him and me was my Bible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there a lot of that, by the way?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And obviously we cannot play that sort of thing on the air, but there's a lot of that, a lot of the really foul language.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, yes.
		And I never play it on the air either.
		But it does happen in horrible, horrible curses.
		I had a case recently.
		I was at a large Baptist church, and a young, a handsome young fellow who was an usher in the church, God spoke to me and said, go pray for him.
		And what I often do is I walk out in the crowd, sort of provoking these demons, and I thought, well, this kid doesn't look like a problem.
		He's studying for the ministry.
		I went to touch him and pray for him, and he flew out of the pew in a violent rage, cursing God's name, uttering the most vile four-letter words right in the middle of this church.
		Very common.
		Jeff, that you're alluding to, the only thing between him and me was my Bible.
		And for one hour, I stood holding my Bible between him and me, quoting Bible verses from memory, warding him off.
		And everybody was afraid to grab him.
		In this case, he got there before anybody could get to him.
		And he was so huge, they were so afraid if anybody tried to touch him, I mean, he'd have his hands on my throat before they could move.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, what people are going to hear here is only a small slice of what went on for an hour.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And a lot of which we can't broadcast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here it is.
unidentified		Who are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who do you think I am?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		I'm asking the questions here.
unidentified		Do you have legal authority?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Yes or no?
unidentified		I was born in Dorio.
unidentified		Do you still have remaining legal authority?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		He's renounced all that.
		Do you have any remaining legal authority?
		Yes or no?
		No.
unidentified		What's your name?
		Who are you?
		I am anger.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I am lie.
unidentified		I am cheat.
unidentified		I am steal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I am murder.
unidentified		I bind all those functions of cheating, lying, stealing, murdering, and all those parts.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		I bind them together right now.
		I bind them together.
		I am anger.
		Murder and the rest.
		Murder and the rest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Remove the curse.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Remove the curse from this man.
unidentified		From this man.
		Murder.
		And his children.
		And his children.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		And all future generations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good Lord.
		You used the word you bind.
		You bind.
		I am familiar with witchcraft, Reverend.
		Witches use the word bind.
unidentified		Yes.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Well, Christ established the principle.
		He said, whatsoever you bind on earth shall be bound.
		Whatsoever you loose on earth shall be loosed.
		And that was spoken to Peter and to his disciples as part of the authority that he would give Christians.
		And so as we come against evil, we bind it.
		It's a term of restraint.
		And so what I'm doing is saying I restrain you from your evil and expressing it, and in this case, from attacking me physically.
unidentified		Are you...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you in the movie The Exorcist, one of these things, one of these is there ever an occasion, Reverend, where possession is by not necessarily a demon, but by the devil himself?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		I do not believe that.
		The Bible, I believe, teaches there are two cases where the devil himself actually enters in.
		One was Judas Iscariot.
		The Bible says Satan entered into him, the devil.
		And the other is the Antichrist, who will be the one, as we talked about a moment ago, who will lead this fight against God at the end of the age and will be incarnated by the devil himself.
		It certainly doesn't serve the devil's purposes.
		Remember, the devil is not omnipotent as God is.
		He is not omniscient and omnipresent as God is.
		So while God's power can be everywhere at all times, the devil has spatial limitations to who he is in the sense that he can't be everywhere at once.
		So he would not want to come into someone because then he can't be directing his troops on a worldwide basis of evil.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are those who say the Antichrist is alive on earth now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe that may be so?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		I believe indeed it may be so, though I think that kind of speculation is a little dangerous because, you know, we don't want to get ourselves into a trap if he isn't, of causing people to fall away from faith when he didn't show up.
		But personally, just in my historical view of culture and life as it is, and in my view as an exorcist, I have to believe that he is.
		The outbreak of evil that we see now, you alluded to it earlier.
		When was there a time when people would go postal, when your worker on the computer next door walks in the following day and puts a bullet through your brain?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Only now.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And we have never seen this exponential increase in such extreme evil as we have now.
		So that leads me to believe something is about to happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are able to deal with what we're hearing here, these exorcisms, on an individual basis.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If something, as you put it, is about to happen, that will be beyond your scope.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Yes, because that's in the grander scheme of things.
		Certainly, I believe that what I am doing is a deterrent.
		By the way, I want to make an important point here.
		This is not just about me.
		We have what we call do what Jesus did teams.
		Not what would Jesus do, but do what Jesus did, because Jesus did cast out demons, which are exorcism teams that we teach and train.
		And we now, in more than 50 cities, have established them.
		Our goal is that no one should be more than a day's drive away from a city where they can get an exorcism.
		And that's not true in America today.
		So we are teaching and training these teams.
		And we have scores of teams around the country that every week meet, and they themselves do dozens of exorcisms.
		So it's not just about who I am.
		The knowledge to do this can be transmitted to others.
		It can be, shall we say, learned.
		And I believe that's one of the ways that we must fight this evil.
		No one person can fight it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you have that extensive group across the country, then you must be more aware than anybody I've talked to about the increase in the amount of evil and pollution going on.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		And these teams, you know, the national facilitator of our teams was telling me just yesterday that one particular group, this is very common, has now a waiting list of 300 people who have been pre-qualified.
		That means they've gone to an extensive questionnaire process that deals with medical and psychiatric issues to find out whether or not this is truly legitimate.
		They've got a waiting list in one city of 300 people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you say to people who say all of this isn't legitimate at all, that it's all some kind of fakery, that it's some sort of psychological aberration on the part of these people?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		I invite them to come to our conferences.
		Go to boblarson.org, see where I'm going to be in the city, come and witness it for yourself.
		And then, if you're still not so sure, I say this tongue-in-cheek, when the first murder demon shows up, I'm going to tell the men who are holding the person to stand back, let him go, and I'm going to let you come up and go eyeball to eyeball with his thing and tell it that it's just a figment.
		It's just fake.
		It's just phony.
		I'm going to let you handle it.
		I don't think there'll be any takers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		we talked earlier about which craft which is claim and i know some real which is reverend they claim that uh...
		most of the time which craft is can be used uh...
		in positive ways and that only on occasion and only with the proper provocation uh...
		can which craft be used to issue In fact, most frequently not.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		I couldn't disagree with that more, because the Bible disagrees with it.
		I'm sure those people believe that and mean well and think that, but the Bible is very clear that all witchcraft is an abomination to God and that all witchcraft is an opposition to God because it refuses to acknowledge the Judeo-Christian God of Scripture who is truly God.
		And that though they may feel they're using white magic, there really is only good and evil.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The powers of the earth, the wind, the sun.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Well, those may just simply be convenient explanations for human wisdom and knowledge.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold it right there.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
		To recharge Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with our bell on the Premier Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Brace yourself, it gets worse.
		Bob Larson, Reverend Barr.
		Bob Larson is my guest, and we're talking about Exorcism.
		We're doing more than talk about it.
		We're actually playing you clips from Exorcisms, which, by the way, take quite some time to do as a general course.
		In fact, we'll ask about that in a moment.
		Stay right where you are.
		Back now to the Reverend Larson.
		Reverend, frequently, how long do exorcisms vary widely in the amount of time that it takes?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		I've done them in as short as 10 or 15 minutes.
		Often it will take several hours, 10 or 15 hours, 10 or 15 days.
		I've had some that, you know, which you have to obviously have to take breaks, which have lasted for months.
		Those are rare.
		But most of them require a significant commitment of time.
		And sometimes you have to have more than one exorcism.
		Because the first exorcism only gets to what we call the initial level of devils.
		And that means you just sort of clean out one area of an individual's life, and then they have to rest and recuperate.
		Because it is absolutely physically, mentally, and emotionally devastating to the person who goes through it.
		And then you go back and you do a second or third one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here's an odd question.
		Odd question.
		Dave in Davenport, Iowa asks, Art, could you ask Bob a question for me?
		What happens if you love a demon?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Actually, there are people who do want their demons.
		They do like their demons because these people are dysfunctional in some area of life, and the demon facilitates some process in them that they are frightened of being without.
		And so they like to have that thing because it does do things.
		And to get quite Explicit.
		I don't know what he means by love, but there are people who have sexual relationships with demons, and they love to love a demon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's really odd.
		All right, here's another one.
		This would be, is it Kevin or Kevia?
		I can't.
		And Arlington?
		Does that make sense to you?
		Do you know which one it is?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you're talking about the excerpt.
		Oh, absolutely.
		If it's the young man I believe we're referring to, he was a cutter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A cutter?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		A cutter.
		And I run into many, many cutters.
		These are people who self-mutilate.
		Oh.
		And they will come to our conferences and their arms will just be slashed.
		Sometimes hundreds of slashes of scar tissue where they have burned, hacked, ticked away at themselves.
		Their arms, their legs, sometimes their whole body.
		And very violent young man.
		The young man I'm thinking of had a history of crime and was facing some other very serious consequences, very serious demons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have known young people who have done this forever, and I've seen it myself.
		Yes.
		Here it is.
unidentified		Who are you?
		Anger?
		Who are you?
		Who are you?
		Raph?
		Are you chief?
		Ah!
		Grunts
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Your chief?
unidentified		Do any of you...
unidentified		Do any of you have any further legal authority, Raph?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Do you?
unidentified		Do you?
		Yes or no?
		Yes!
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		What is it?
		What is it?
		What legal authority do you have?
unidentified		My mine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy smokes.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Now, let me tell you, I got the wrong person.
		Let me tell you who this is.
		This is quite interesting.
		This man is Kevin.
		I'll give his full name, Kevin Thornton.
		I don't often give full names of people just to protect their anonymity.
		He was a singer with the group Color Me Bad, who had the number one hit song a couple of years ago called I Want to Sex You Up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He didn't even sound human.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		No, he wasn't.
		I did not know who he was.
		He was in the audience of about 1,600 people.
		Really well-dressed young fellow, African-American.
		I went out to him and he exploded, got him up on stage.
		His unearthly voice spoke out of him.
		I did not know who he was until the whole exorcism is over with, and he told me that a couple years ago he had a number one hit record in America.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One more time.
		This one I want to hear one more time.
		This is not a human voice.
unidentified		Who are you?
		Anglo?
		Who are you?
		Who are you?
		Rap?
		Are you chief?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Your chief?
unidentified		Do any of you have any further legal authority, Raph?
unidentified		Do you?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Do you?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Yes or no?
unidentified		Yes!
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		What is it?
unidentified		What is it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What legal authority do you have?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My mine.
unidentified		Oh, God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Legal authority.
		What does that mean, legal authority?
		What do you mean by that?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Well, the mercy and the goodness and the love of God protects us from evil.
		Even sometimes when we're stupid enough to put ourselves in the firing line of evil.
		But God is a loving, merciful God.
		However, demons are looking for legal right.
		They're looking for a technicality by which they can enter into somebody.
		And so when you cast out a demon, you must find out, does it have a right to be there?
		Sometimes they don't have a right.
		Sometimes they just sort of slip in or sneak in because the person is quite morally vulnerable.
		But sometimes they literally do have a legal right in that the person has done something, or as I said earlier, there has been some curse brought down through the family line that gave them the right.
		You're going to play one in a moment, Mary, in which there was a curse, an ancient curse going back, where some people in the family had sold their souls in the midst of a famine.
		What?
		And as a result, this followed the family line.
		So that is a legal right.
		The demon, there was a pact made, and you have to break that pact.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Matt writes, I get these computer messages as the program goes on, and asks, can a person, interesting question, can a person who is a Christian be possessed by a demon?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if so, how can Christ and a demon dwell in the same spot?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't like the term possessed in reference to a Christian.
		Let's just say invaded, influenced, or affected.
		Because as I said in the beginning, these terms are kind of meaningless.
		I mean, they are human terms describing the metaphysical.
		And at best, they are inadequate.
		Now, how can Christ and the devil be there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Well, they're not.
		They're not truly there.
		But as you brought up earlier, I mean, you said, I have known some Christians who are quite unethical.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I certainly have.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		And I have known Christians who have done horrible things and yet claim to be a Christian.
		What's going on here?
		Well, we have someone who probably has a devil in them.
		And when the person is acting out their Christianity, they are a child of faith.
		But in their weak moments, when they give in to that other side, the demon then is able to take over and cause them to do horrible things.
		Now, how does that happen?
		Not in their spirit.
		The Bible teaches what's called the tripartite nature or the trichotomous nature of man, that he is body, soul, and spirit.
		So that when by confession of faith we choose to follow God, the spirit is eternally reborn.
		But in the soul, which is the mind, emotional, sentient nature of who we are, we may have pockets of demonic infestation that affect our soul, that is, our feelings, and tempt us with those feelings.
		So, in that sense, it is not true coexistence with evil.
		It's God is in the spirit, the devil is in the soul.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Reverend, I've got to take the opportunity to ask you, I deal with this a lot on my program.
		I believe there really are ghosts.
		What is a ghost?
		What is a ghost?
		Is a ghost somebody's actual soul, their consciousness after death remaining on earth?
		Or is it some sort of weird little echo and tape replay of what was?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		I believe that the Bible teaches ghosts are not what in popular culture are disembodied spirits with unfinished business or some soul emanation.
		I believe that, in fact, ghosts are demons masquerading as the departed.
		Because the Bible teaches that necromancy, communication with the dead, is an occult forbidden sin that causes demon possession.
		And so the devil masquerades as the dead or the departed or as a soul.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then you agree then that that communication is possible.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
		And there are ghosts and there are phantoms and ectoplasmic apparitions.
		But these are demonic beings seeking to cause us to communicate.
		And that's what was so dangerous, for example, with the movie The Sixth Sense.
		I debated Hamley Joe Osman about that on the Larry King show.
		Once we communicate, then the link is established and we've crossed over that moral barrier that God established with ancient Israel.
		And from that point on, demons have the right to enter into us.
		So the ghost, in fact, will enter into you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So by the time you get to the point where you're saying, I see dead people, it's way too late.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		It is way too late.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		At that point, you've already been taken over.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Actually, the next one I've got coming up is Chris in Anchorage.
		Does that ring any bells?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it does.
		This guy just suddenly got out of his seat and headed toward me.
		And his was the case of an ancient curse upon the family.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An ancient curse on the family.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Oh, very frequently I run into these cases where unbeknownst to the individual, somebody hundreds of years ago did something.
		Oftentimes there will be an ancient sacrifice.
		I remember one particular case, a woman of Hispanic descent.
		There was an ancient Aztec ancestor who wanted the power, sexual power over women, so he human sacrificed his own granddaughter.
		This is at least what the spirits said, gave them the right going back 25 generations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's play this and then I'll ask.
unidentified		What would you have a what?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Judgment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
unidentified		Who are you?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Who else is there?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Did you say pornography?
unidentified		Yes!
		Guilt!
		Guilt!
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Generations!
unidentified		Generations!
unidentified		Lust is here.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean, generations?
unidentified		Oh, this family is mine.
		More than one.
		All of them are mine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		That, by the way, took place in front of more than a thousand people.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		And that voice, I mean, I actually...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's got a quality to it at one point that is not...
		It's...
		The quality of the voice changed from what even a human could, in the worst moments, utter.
		I mean, it was almost mechanical.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		It sounded like it was sent through a phaser or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a true...
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		Absolutely.
		In fact, Mr. Fred Johnson, who is my production assistant at our studio in Denver.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, you could hear it go into distortion at one point, and obviously it was simply too loud for the mic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But at another point, something happened to that voice that was all wrong.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		And, you know, I actually had people accuse me of doctoring that tape.
		And as I said, Mr. Fred Johnson is a real human being.
		He is my production assistant.
		He will verify to anybody who wants it verified.
		Nobody touched that tape.
		It was weird.
		I mean, it went into this other earthly thing.
		We actually captured it on video, too.
		We have it on videotape, the same sound.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		And this was professional cameras.
		I mean, this was a major three-camera shoot that we did.
		And so we have it on videotape and audio tape.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, one more time.
		Listen very, very carefully to the quality of the voice about in the middle of all this.
		Listen very carefully.
unidentified		What would you have a what?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Judgment.
unidentified		Of course.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Who are you?
unidentified		Who are you?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Who else is there?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Did you say pornography?
unidentified		Yes!
		Guilt!
		Guilt!
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Generations!
unidentified		Generations!
unidentified		Lust is here.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean, generations?
unidentified		All this family is mine.
		More than one.
		All of them are mine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a pretty confident, really a confident demon.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Yes, he was.
		But he was cast out, and it was very beautiful.
		When it was over with, this man's wife, who was pregnant, came running up to hug him.
		By the way, it was back to the same city, the same place, recently, and this young man was there, came up and gave me a big hug.
		He now is the proud father of a baby, and his life is just going on wonderfully.
		His father was also there that night, and we had to remove the curse from his father as well because the demon claimed that it had the whole family line.
		And this young man now is an active member of his church, a wonderful father.
		I shudder to think if this evil had not been expelled, what might have become of him?
		Because I really honestly feel, Art, that many of these people we encounter are on their way to commit a murder.
		They're on their way to being tomorrow's headline.
		And we are stopping it.
		And I say we, our teams all over the country.
		And I always want to emphasize to people, don't look to Bob Larson.
		I'm a human instrument.
		I'm sure Father Malachi Martin told you the same thing.
		I'm a human instrument of God.
		This is God who does this.
		This is God's power.
		It is not my power.
		It is the power of Christ through his resurrection.
		I'm just the human instrument of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I guess all of this, does it scare you now or are you past that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you so sure of what you're doing that you're certain there's nothing you can run into?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Every week in every conference, I encounter something I have never seen before.
		It amazes me because you think after all these years, I would have seen it all.
		I am astounded every single week there's some strange, weird twist that I would never...
		And it's always new.
		It's always fresh.
		The ingenuity of evil is beyond comprehension.
		But more so is the grace and the love of God.
		And we must remember that, that yes, this is scary, but the real story is not the frightening evil that's inside these people, but the love of God that is there to change their lives and make them into healthy, productive, decent people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could it be that more people in America, I mean, America is a pretty materialistic place.
		Could it be that more people in America have made that perfect deal with the devil than in the rest of the world because in America, everybody wants what everybody else has.
		And to get there, if that's what it takes, maybe more people here are making that deal than they are anywhere else.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		You're very astute.
		You know, Hollywood doesn't get it right very often, but that El Pacino movie certainly did get it right.
		And that's the deal that people have made.
		They don't make it consciously.
		They don't just say, I sell my soul for whatever, but in their striving ways, Yes, yes.
		They're striving to become whatever it is they want to become.
		Nothing stands in their pathway.
		And when you cross over that line, you become the servant of all that is evil.
		And God no longer ceases.
		God no longer exists in your life as a guiding person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
		Reverend, hold on.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		The devil went down to Georgia.
		He was looking for a soul to steal.
		He was in a bang because he was way behind.
		He was willing to make a deal.
		But he came across this young man sewing on the fiddle and playing it hot.
		And the devil jumped up on the hatred thumb and said, boy, let me tell you what.
		I guess you didn't know it, but I'm a fiddle player, too.
		And if you'd care to take a dare, I'll make a bet with you.
		Now, you play a pretty good fiddle, boy, but give the devil a view.
		I've got a fiddle of gold against your soul to make it better too.
		Boy said, my name's Johnny, and it might be a sin.
		But I'll take your bet, you're going to regret that I'm the best that's ever been.
		Johnny, you're rousing up your ball and play your fiddle.
		Feeling alright, a little jiving on a Saturday night.
		Come walk me, I'm gonna die a day away.
		Jenny will sleep, she always smile for the people she needs.
		Wanna take a ride?
		Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach ART at area code 775-727-1222.
		Or call the Wildcard line at 775-727-1295.
		To talk with ART on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and FM dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Reverend Bob Larson is here, and I warn you numerous times, and I'll do it one more time, this material is pretty rough stuff.
		So be advised if you're coming into the middle of the program, use parental discretion.
		You have discretion, right?
		You don't want your children around this, and you may not even want yourself around it.
		You figure that out for yourself.
		Once again, the Reverend Bob Larson.
		Bob, somebody asks Denise, actually, in Illinois, is there a finite number of demons?
		Are there a finite number of demons?
		And if so, have you ever run into the same demon more than once?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		There is a finite number.
		In the original creation, God made X number of angels.
		And one-third of those fell with Lucifer in the rebellion.
		We don't know how many that is.
		It's millions.
		It's huge.
		But it is finite, and it is finite as opposed to the omnipresence of God.
		Now, I have run into demons who go by the same name, function, and purpose.
		I've had demons say to me, I know you, I've met you, we faced each other before.
		Was it literally that same demon?
		Perhaps.
		Perhaps it was just that demon's embodiment of that same evil that I faced before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could one demon inhabit two...
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Not two places at one time, but they do have the capacity to move at, I don't know, the speed of light.
		Who knows?
		I mean, they're here, they're there, they move fast.
		And a demon does not necessarily need to be in an individual permanently.
		If they have the right to come and go, yes, they may come and go between, for example, a husband and wife, a father and son, particularly people with a familial connection, go back and forth and affect one and then affect the other.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You deal with people who are living who have demons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many people would you imagine die with demons?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		A lot of people die as the result of demons.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		They commit suicide because demons have driven them to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, for every one saved, I wonder how many are not.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Many, many.
		I wouldn't even suggest that I and all of our Do What Jesus did teams are coming close to reaching all those people.
		That's why I am so fervent in traveling and holding these conferences every weekend to get more people involved in this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've written how many books?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		29 books.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		The latest is Shock Talk, a novel about exorcism.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you were to recommend a starter book, and we've got lots of links on my page to your books, what should people begin with?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Actually, the latest book, Shock Talk, is an excellent starter because it's a novel.
		It tells a story of a tabloid TV talk show host.
		And that's a girl who's a cutter-self-mutilator who attempts suicide on his national television show, and then he's forced to find out, out of his own curiosity, what this is all about.
		And it deals with generational curses, the link to multiple personalities, which is another whole issue we haven't gotten into, and also issues of what we call inner healing by which the soul is restored.
		The other one would be the Book of Spiritual Warfare, which is a 500-page encyclopedic reference on everything about demons and angels and witchcraft and Satanism, the supernatural.
		So Shock Talk or the Book of Spiritual Warfare?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Spiritual Warfare.
		You said multiple personalities.
		I thought that was a psychiatric disorder.
		It's more?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is a recognizable disorder, generally referred to as DID or dissociative identity disorder.
		But in fact, more than 50% of the cases of demonization that we deal with also have dissociation.
		And the reason is because the severity of trauma, which causes multiplicity or dissociation, which is also an opening for demons, means that sometimes certain demons hide within certain personalities.
		And so very frequently what we have to do is find out if a person is a multiple, and if they're a multiple, then to locate the demon, the demon may not be in the core or the host person.
		In other words, in that part of the person's soul consciousness, the demon may not be evident.
		They may be fairly normal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, Reverend, something I've always wondered about, our mental hospitals across America are full of people.
		And I've always wondered what percentage really shouldn't be there?
		What percentage of the people in the mental institutions across America are actually possessed?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		It's hard to know, but I often run into demons of insanity.
		And they will, I mean, it's kind of almost amusing because the demons themselves are almost insane.
		Their function has so overtaken them, they're loony.
		But in their lucidity, they will say, you know, I'm about to drive this person crazy.
		I'm going to send her to a mental institution.
		Then I'll get her in there and nobody will ever be able to help her again.
		They'll just laugh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to drive them crazy.
		That's the way it works.
		A lot of them never get out.
		You mentioned Mary earlier.
		Now, we're up to Mary.
		Tell me about Mary, Flagstaff.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		This took place in Flagstaff, Arizona, in a conference.
		Mary was just seated in the audience and suddenly began to hideously scream.
		We brought her to the front, worked with her at length, and this demon eventually spoke German and said that her ancestors, I'm trying to remember, were Irish or Italian, I can't remember which, had actually gone to Germany during a time of famine to get food and sold their souls to someone called Herman the German.
		And Herman the German was in the black magic and for exchange for their souls gave them food.
		Nice, sweet lady.
		But boy, this thing was hideous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sweet lady.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here is Mary.
unidentified		Go right there.
unidentified		Hey!
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		I confront the spirit of hate right there.
		I command that spirit.
		Face me in the name of Jesus.
unidentified		Yeah, you love her forever.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, didn't you?
unidentified		Didn't you?
		Yes!
		Yes!
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Is that how you got there?
unidentified		Through the hatred.
		Exception!
		Exception!
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Deception?
		What kind of exception?
		Are you part of a turkey?
unidentified		Yes!
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Hundreds of years!
unidentified		Hundreds of years!
unidentified		Hundreds!
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, came down through the family line through her brother, didn't it?
		Passed on to you, didn't it?
		Did you deceive her?
unidentified		Yes, yes.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		How did you deceive her?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		What did you make her believe?
unidentified		Nobody would find out.
		Who is chief among them?
		Herman!
		Herman is the man who put the curse on the family, isn't he?
		Yes, yes.
		What nationality?
		Herman!
		You're right, you're right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hoo.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I had a number of questions popping up on my computer screen about people speaking in languages.
		There you are.
		Oh, my.
		In every case so far, I would have to say, you know, if somebody's faking this, I can't even imagine how they could do that.
		These voices do not sound human.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Well, and keep in mind, you're hearing just a handful of hundreds of examples and a small portion of what may have gone on for an hour.
		And that this has been witnessed hundreds of times in scores of cities all over America in front of thousands and thousands of people.
		It amuses me when people say, oh, you know, these people are paid actors or he sets these people up because the infrastructure to organize all of that in all these cities would be monumental and impossible.
		And after all of this time, and the thousands of people, somebody surely would have broken the silence by now and said, oh, this was an actor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		But these are identifiable people.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		And we've had 60 Minutes, MSNBC, the New York Times, LA Times investigate this, talk to many of these people afterwards, go into their homes with television cameras.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got to understand why people do this, why they want to squash this and prove that it's some kind of fraud or fake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They want to, obviously, because the alternative is to have to believe that it's true.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Well, to believe that it's true means that then each individual has to deal with the possibility of evil in his own life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Precisely.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, the person who is hearing these voices talking about lying, cheating, murder, hatred, and mayhem, then has to ask himself, is it possible that I have ever harbored those feelings in my own heart?
		And if so, could I have given in to this kind of evil?
		And for some people who don't want to believe in God, that's just a step they don't want to take.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there any in the examples we have here, we have more men than women.
		In fact, I think Mary is the only woman we have.
		Now, is there any pattern to possession?
		Are more men possessed than women?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		No, we just happen to, I think, to have chosen these examples because the demons in men seem to be more verbally dramatic.
		But it actually is more women than men.
		Women are far more prevalent.
		Because, as I said earlier in the show, abuse issues are so prominent, and so more women are victimized by violation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, one more time, folks, with Mary.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She's the only example of a woman we have tonight.
unidentified		I confront the spirit of hate right there.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		I command that spirit.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Face me in the name of Jesus.
unidentified		You thought you'd have her forever.
		Yeah, didn't you?
		Didn't you?
		Yes!
		Yes, my honor!
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Is that how you got there?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Through the hatred.
unidentified		Deception!
unidentified		Deception!
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Deception?
unidentified		What kind of deception?
		Are you part of a purpose?
		Yes!
		Hundreds of years!
		Hundreds of years!
		Hundreds!
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, came down through the family line through her brother, didn't it?
		Passed on to you, didn't it?
		Did you deceive her?
unidentified		Yes, yes!
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		How did you deceive her?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		What did you make her believe?
unidentified		Nobody would find out.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Who is chief among you?
unidentified		Herman!
		Herman is the man who put the curse on the family, isn't he?
		Yes, yes.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		What nationality?
unidentified		I...
unidentified		Oh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The more you listen, the more you're able, even from these short clips, the more you're able to pick out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So these generational curses are frequent.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, they are.
		Far more frequent than one would imagine.
		But just think about it.
		I mean, which one of us knows who in our past may have done something like that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Almost none of us.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And so I encourage all people of faith to go through, preferably with a friend, a pastor, a priest, a renunciation of generational curses.
		I've done that for me, my family, and my children.
		And I prayed a prayer that says, Dear God, I renounce any and all curses that may have come upon me from past generations, and I renounce those sins of my ancestors that may have caused me to be cursed, and I bequeath to my children and future generations a new heritage of faith in Christ and faith in God, and cause that any of those curses by which the devil may have access to my life or my family to be broken in the name of God.
		And by doing that, I mean, it sounds so simple to say that, but the devil, I tell people, if you're going to deal with the devil, you have to act like a lawyer and think like a judge.
		Because these things operate in a very technical spiritual universe.
		And a curse is a legal document of sorts.
		And so you just declare it null and void, and then it's broken.
		But so many people have never articulated that simple prayer that I said a moment ago, and they are vulnerable.
		So anyone in this audience who has faith in God can say that and break that and be free from it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have that?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		And then they need to come to our conferences and get an exorcist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have these sound clips on your website as well?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Actually, we've never done that.
		We probably should do that.
		In fact, I ought to put them up there tomorrow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would assume, again, these are very short.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It would be interesting sometime, Perhaps in a future appearance, Reverend, if you were to bring a substantial portion of a very serious one to listen to?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, when I say we don't have these clips, we do archive some of our own radio shows on our website, boblarson.org, and they can download past shows in which I have played longer versions of these.
		And for example, we just did a show earlier this week that would be in our archives of a woman who was Polish and whose parents were put in the Hitler's death camps.
		And a spirit of death then followed that family.
		And then when they were released from the camps and immigrated to South America, to Caracas, Venezuela, she then was molested as a child, and these spirits then took control of her.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we've got, I think, a very short one we can do.
		This is Tony in Minneapolis.
		What's the story on Tony?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Very, very interesting.
		You know, a lot of times people think that, oh, if I'm going to get a demon, I have to do something really bad.
		Sometimes it's a fairly small opening if there's a pre-existing vulnerability.
		Tony's father, as we, first of all, he just erupted in the audience, and I have no idea what the story was, but I learned later that his father had wanted to murder his mother, his father's mother, had wanted to murder other family members and had thought about it and planned it.
		This young man was working in a kitchen, in a restaurant, and someone accidentally spilled some frying grease on him, and he sustained some serious burns to his body.
		Well, while he was in this state of physical torment with his grease burning his body, his employer and fellow employees were reluctant to call 911 an emergency because they were afraid they were going to get a lawsuit.
		And he was laying there screaming in agony as he described it with his grease burning his flesh.
		And at that moment, he said to himself, if I survive this, I will get even and I will kill these people who didn't offer me help.
		And that very thought of murder that he entertained in his mind opened him up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here it is.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Getting spared by the murder.
unidentified		They did, didn't you?
unidentified		Didn't you murder?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Well, it wasn't fair, was it?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		You guys don't play fair, do you?
unidentified		You don't have to.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		You don't have to, do you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Murder.
		You know, Reverend, I interviewed a pretty interesting person the other day.
		His name is Kent Walker.
		And he is the, he's called the other brother.
		The Santa and Kenny Kimes incident, you know about that?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The murder conviction.
		You don't.
		It's a big case.
		It's a big murder case.
		But Santa was probably as close to evil as you can imagine.
		She was a mother who brought her two sons up in a life of crime, grifting, and ultimately, in the case of one, murder.
		And they've been convicted of that murder now, of a socialite.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Is this the mother?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, the mother and the son who killed the socialite.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ding, ding, ding, right, right.
		All of a sudden.
		Okay, yes, I interviewed the brother, and he told me his mother, Sante, was in his eyes.
		If you've ever looked into the eyes of Charles Manson, there's really no question about what you see.
		You see evil.
		And he said, that was in my mother's eyes as well.
		And still is, and in his opinion, always will be.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Well, he was looking at a demon.
		He wasn't just looking at his mother.
		He was looking into the soul of his mother, and he saw the demon in her soul.
		I wouldn't doubt that for a moment.
		That's what I see when I look at people.
		People say, how do you know, Bob?
		Because I will walk out into an audience of 400, 500, maybe 1,000 or 2,000 people, and then I walk through the audience, and I pick out the people that I've never seen before in my life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you know.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		And I just know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You just know.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		I just look, I see in their soul the evil, and it looks back at me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Hold on right there, Reverend.
		We'll be right back.
		I'm Art Bell.
		This is Coast to Coast AF.
unidentified		Falling in love was the last thing I had on my mind.
		Holding you is a warmth that I thought I could never find Just trying to decide Or stay by your side I know I could cry I just can't find the answers to the questions that keep going through my mind Hey babe!
		Listen to it, blow.
		Watch the sun rise.
		Wanna take a ride?
		Well, call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
		The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		And to reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		We'll be right back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
		Reverend Bob Larson is my guest, and we're about to go to the phones.
		A little more business to do, and we'll go to the phones.
		Stay right where you are.
		Reverend David in Los Angeles asks whether, as in the movie The Exorcist, can the possessed at times ever actually physically manifest anything like levitation, moving objects, that sort of thing?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		It's rare.
		I have seen it happen.
		It's not common.
		Satan seems to be somewhat limited in that realm.
		The movie was a little bit of an exaggeration, but it was a composite of a number of things.
		I have seen it, but it's rare.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand, actually, that that exorcism was, in other words, it was based, though, on one real story that I think occurred in Missouri, perhaps?
		Yes, that's true.
		All right, we have one more that I would like to get to that occurred apparently in Anchorage with Brent.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Well, excuse me, I mentioned this a little earlier.
		This was the young man dressed in a suit and tie, church usher, Bible school student, who had no idea, neither did anybody in the church have any idea, that there could have been anything like this in him.
		And he was just seated comfortably in the aisle of the church, and I felt this strong spiritual impression to go to him, to pray for him.
		And I thought, well, he's a very unlikely person.
		And I usually carry with me when I pray anointing oil.
		And anointing oil represents the presence of the Holy Spirit.
		And often when I approach people, I will make the sign of the cross in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit on their head.
		I reached over to do that.
		He exploded, flew out of the pew.
		This is a heavily edited excerpt.
		The F-word was just pouring out of his mouth.
		And in this sedate Baptist church, the place was in a state of shock.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, what you're about to hear, you've got to imagine the rest.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		It's a sanitized version.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here we go.
unidentified		Didn't think I'd claimed you, did you?
		No. 25 generations?
		Yes.
		Well, you've been there a long time.
		You must not want to give up this body, huh?
		No.
		He's a child of God.
		You don't have legal right anymore, do you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you?
unidentified		No.
		Now, blasphemy, I put an angel on your left, on your right, behind you, and in front of you.
		Stronger than your angel, sir.
		Blasphemy?
		What is the key to this curse?
		Tell it!
		It was dedicated to Satan for future generations.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		25 generations ago?
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		The bloodline was dedicated to the devil?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good lord.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		25 generations ago.
		He didn't know it.
		His family didn't know it.
		Studying for the ministry, this evil was down inside him.
		And it was violent, very violent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's incredible.
		All right.
		Let's take a few calls here through the top of the hour and see what we get.
		Who knows?
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Reverend Larson.
		Hello.
unidentified		All right.
		Thanks a lot, Art.
		Good morning, Mr. Larson.
		My name is Jeremy.
		I'm calling from CFUN Radio in Vancouver.
		And Mr. Larson, you stated earlier in the show, I guess last hour you were talking about the witchcraft and how the earth and sun and water and fire was just maybe a convenient way to explain that magic and their powers.
		But what do you think about maybe Christianity being a simple way to explain your powers, right?
		Like a convenient way to describe what you do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fair question, I suppose, yes.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm sure that an individual could suggest that.
		I happen to believe that Christianity is a God-revealed religion through the Old Testament onward, and that it is the true faith of the only living and true God.
		I respect the right that other people may disagree with that, but that's what I believe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Reverend Larson.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello there.
		Hi, Bob.
		Hello.
		Yeah, I know something about this generational stuff.
		Edgar Casey is one of my distant, distant relatives, and my family's had spiritism and everything in this line for forever.
		And by the time I was in sixth grade, I was regularly praying to be possessed by spirits and manifesting, developing my ESP and all kinds of things.
		And fortunately, God saved me from this life of utter darkness when I was 15.
		And I've been getting together with the gal that you just recently delivered in Anchorage here.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
unidentified		At the Baptist Temple for a discipleship and prayer.
		And you did two deliverance services with her.
		A little blonde gal you probably remember.
		Lisa.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do remember Elisa.
unidentified		Yeah, and she's doing pretty well.
unidentified		She's had some trouble spots.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Were you there tonight, this young man Brent?
unidentified		No, I was not there at any of the services, but we have, I've been doing, you know, kind of some counseling and follow-up ministry with her since that time.
		And anyway, just thought you would be interested to hear that she's doing pretty well, and I'm just trying to focus her on, you know, kind of prayer of quiet and healing and focusing on the love of Jesus and her Heavenly Father because she was abused and all that.
		But I have a concern, and that is that with my background in spiritism and witchcraft and all this kind of stuff, I listen to art regularly, and art I love yet, and I pray for your audience for protection over them and over you particularly,
		because this is, if you listen at a regular rate, Bob, you would know that this audience is very open to all kinds of different occultic influences in their lives.
		And my burden for you is I really believe that there is a loving and well-intentioned witchcraft influence in your life at your right hand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know there is.
unidentified		And you are in danger.
		And this is a man who can give you some counsel in this area.
		I pray for you regularly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, you're right about that.
		I'm certainly open to everything.
		And I suppose a lot of people would consider that to be very foolish and very dangerous to be open to nearly everything.
		But that's the edge that I live on, I suppose.
		All right.
		Onward eastward, eastward, actually.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Reverend Larson.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you're on the air, sir.
unidentified		Hi there.
		Yeah.
		I was at the conference in the Detroit area on Friday night with Bob Larson.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yeah.
		And I sat right in the front row, and I witnessed firsthand the exorcism of a woman named LaShondra.
		And when this demon began to manifest in her, to look at her, it's like Bob was saying, when you look in a person's eyes, you can see the evil, and it was quite terrifying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I could clearly, I mean, clearly, and obviously what we played tonight, it was terrifying, and you could hear it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you're telling me that when you were actually physically there, the visual was as terrifying as what we're hearing.
unidentified		Yes.
		And he worked with her for, I'm guessing, around an hour or so on and off.
		But at the very end, when that thing was finally, he drove the power of that evil right out of her.
		And at the very end, when that thing came out, she was spitting and coughing and throwing up, bent over forwards.
		But after that thing came out, she had the most beautiful smile.
		And you could just see the joy and the peace in her heart.
		And I'll tell you, I have witnessed similar before, but I know this is real because of my own personal experience with God also.
		I met God personally nine years ago, roughly nine years ago, through a little tiny prayer group in the Detroit area, several Christians praying together, worshiping God.
		And the Spirit of God came upon me and gave me a revelation that Jesus is the Son of God, that he died for me and that he rose from the dead.
		I have not doubted that from that day to this day.
		And I know for a fact that he is the only way.
		He himself said, I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life.
		He said, nobody comes to the Father but through him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		well you know all that's very interesting except uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		i'm still puzzled by the fact that uh...
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		we apparently have more evil present more entities waiting to take over whatever they can get in america than we do in all of these non christian nations almost put together it's a Because America is the most gracious, philanthropic, compassionate nation on earth in spite of all its evil.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Why wouldn't the devil target America that has the greatest capacity to alleviate the suffering of humanity around the globe?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but he spoke of the only way, and the only way, he said, and I've heard that said by so many Christians, fine, the only way.
		Well, all of these other nations that don't take that path at all, and they don't seem bothered.
		Somehow it doesn't make sense.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Well, it makes sense if you think about the devil's using his resources most wisely to attack where the greatest threat is.
		And America, in spite of its problems, is a great threat to the devil.
		Because, as I said, if you think about all the philanthropic work, all the relief that has gone on around the world for starving humanity and so on, America's the leader in that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		After you've done a long exorcism, how does that leave you at the end?
		Are you drained?
		Is this work as hard and draining as it sounds and spiritually draining?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		Spiritually, mentally, emotionally, physically.
		When I'm done, I'm just a dishrag.
		I'm limp.
		I mean, I'm surprised they don't carry me out sometimes.
		It takes every ounce of energy.
		I mean, you're the natural dealing with the supernatural.
		A real mind game is going on as you battle these things, as you're looking for these intricate clues, putting the pieces of the puzzle together to see this person free.
		Absolutely, physically.
		I'm sure Father Malachi Martin must have told you the same thing.
		When you're done, I mean, you just, that's it.
		You're no good for anything after that for a while until you refresh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And, Reverend, on this program, as the lady pointed out a little while ago, I deal with an awful lot of strange stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And one of the strange things that I deal with on this program is the presence of alien life.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I take it that your position would generally be that what's regarded by many as aliens really are not aliens at all.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		They are demons.
		Now, I do believe that, by the way, that you just cannot discount all of the so-called extraterrestrial phenomena.
		In fact, I wrote a book.
		It's currently out of print.
		We have a few copies left called UFOs and the Alien Agenda.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Yes, a very long, detailed book about all of this, in which I posited the theme that through the unpredictability and the periodicity with which these phenomena occur, there is a kind of consciousness raising taking place in our culture, bringing people to the awareness where they anticipate something dramatic about to happen.
		That we're kind Of, like, being set up by these beings, but that they don't come from outer space, they come from, in fact, what well, maybe Jacques Vallias talked about them coming from a parallel dimension.
		I believe that parallel dimension is a spirit dimension, and they, you know, these demons break through that barrier from time to time, but they're just toying with us.
		And that these extraterrestrial phenomena are these beings sort of manipulating the mass consciousness to prepare people for the Antichrist.
		If you look at the descriptions of many of these people, and I know you've seen some of these pictures.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have, yes.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		They look very much akin to what people describe to me as demons, almost identical.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, they do.
		Yeah, that's quite right.
		They do.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		People in the spirit world describing demons describe the same sort of creatures very often that are described by people who claim to have had UFO abductions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have behind me, sent to me by Rush Limbaugh, a gigantic, oh, it's got to be five feet tall, a depiction of a, carved from hard wood.
		It's the most amazing thing you've ever seen.
		Depiction of a gray alien.
		And actually, when you look at the, you know what a typical gray is.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I know what a gray is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, yeah, they, to us, to my mind, as I look at it, there's almost a demon there.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		I think you need me to come to the prump and do an exorcism on your studio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, this studio has been through a lot, believe me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Reverend Bob Larson.
unidentified		Hi.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Hi, how are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sir.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, this is Joe from Albuquerque.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I have two questions for your guest.
		One is, I've had these what they call paralysis dreams.
		Sometimes they're known as hypnogloginous sleep.
		And there's always a feeling of like a menevolent being there.
		And this is a common thread with people who have had these dreams.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they usually proceed out-of-body experiences, actually, if you're talking about the paralysis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		It seems like your soul clicks out, but it doesn't click out all the way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
unidentified		And I'm wondering what your guest has to say about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll just bet his take is a lot different than Albert Taylor's.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bob?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		I do believe that many of these, though some are psychological, are demotically precipitated.
		In fact, I deal with sleep paralysis phenomena quite often with women who are attacked by incubi spirits.
		And very often in that state where they feel frozen to the bed, they will be sexually assaulted.
		And because I dare to talk about this publicly, these women come out of the woodwork just describing these horrific experiences, but they've been terrified to ever discuss it with anyone until then for fear somebody would think they're crazy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have talked to a lot of women who have been attacked, Reverend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's not uncommon at all, is it?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
		It's a very common thing, but they're so ashamed to speak of it for fear that somebody will think that they're nuts.
		But if you think about it, in that sort of dreamlike intermittent state between the state of dream consciousness and awake consciousness, there is a kind of spiritual vulnerability where all sorts of strange things can occur out-of-the-body experiences, very spontaneous spiritual phenomena, including the attack of spirit beings which may seek physical cohabitation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You send me a copy of the New York Times, indeed.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		New York Times, Tuesday, November 28th, 2000, headline, Exorcists and Exorcisms Proliferate Across the United States, across the U.S. Well, the Roman Catholic Church, for example, just cannot cope with the incredible caseload that they're getting.
		And of course, they have this rigorous structure by which they permit exorcism.
		Quietly, though, on the side, what the church doesn't talk about is that there is a growing lay movement of hundreds of practitioners around the country who, though not officially sanctioned by the church, do have somewhat the blessing of the church to assist with this great demand.
		And there have been conferences of Catholic lay people, which hundreds have gathered together to speak about their experiences.
		This summer in Colorado, we're going to be having a conference in which we're going to be bringing together scores, hundreds of people from around the country to tell about their common experiences of them doing exorcism.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is your near-term schedule?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		My which?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Near-term schedule.
		In other words, where are you going to be shortly?
		Where am I going to be immediately?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Well, as I said, I'm going to be in Vancouver, British Columbia this weekend on Friday and Saturday.
		And then I'll take a week off for Memorial Day after that.
		On the 1st and the 2nd, I'm going to be in Las Vegas, Nevada.
		Take a week off for my wife to have a baby.
		And then I'm going to be in Dallas, Montreal, Midland, Texas.
		And then the second week of July, a huge California tour, four cities in Southern California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you see a movie called The Devil's Advocate?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Remember the very end of that movie?
		I'll never forget it.
		When they thought all was clear and all was done, and he was walking down the steps, and the devil said something like, vanity.
		Ah, vanity, my favorites.
		What an incredible end that was.
		Well, it has been.
		You know, I should like to say a pleasure to have you on.
		You've been incredible to have on the air, and I would like to have you back again.
		And I would like to also ask that the next time you come, can you bring longer segments?
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		I can bring longer segments that will truly raise the hair on your neck.
		Absolutely.
		I'll tell you what, but thrill to have been with you.
		I've admired your work for years, Art.
		You and I don't agree in everything, but I respect the fact that you do a great show of giving people a forum to clearly speak what they believe, and I deeply respect that.
		My prayers are with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I try and allow all sides to have a voice, is what I do.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		That's not often the case in the media today, which is so tightly controlled, as you know, so I commend you for that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is tightly controlled.
		Not here, though.
		Reverend, thank you.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Thank you so much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
bob larson ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That, folks, is the Reverend Bob Larson.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		One hour of open lives directly ahead.
		Stay right where you are.
unidentified		My sweet Lord, my Lord, my Lord, there is no love.
		Really honestly, really honest.
		I really want to see you, Lord, but it takes so long, my love.
		My sweet love.
		Where are those happy days?
		They seem so hard to find.
		I tried to reach for you, but you have closed too fine.
		Whatever happened to my love.
		I wish I understood.
		It's just a face of love.
		It's just the pace of the groove So when you're near me, darling Can't you hear me?
		S.O.S The love you gave me Nothing else can save me S.O.S When you're gone How can I even try to go on?
		When you're gone Though I try How can I carry on?
		Thank you.
		Wanna take a ride?
		Call Art Bell from West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
		The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		And to call ART on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nile.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning from the high desert.
unidentified		Well, how do you feel?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Huh?
		Last night, we had Matthew Albert.
		This night, we had Reverend Bob Larson.
unidentified		You think that was an error in scheduling?
unidentified		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I planned it that way.
unidentified		Your head should be twirling like Linda's.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that was the whole idea.
		From here, where do we go?
		Well, tomorrow night, for example, Paul Smith and Russell Targ will be here.
		Both of them in the original remote viewing program.
		So we'll shift gears again tomorrow night.
		hour, open lines, coming up.
		You know, I am, somebody asked me, am I humored?
		I am humored, actually, by an aspect of last night and tonight.
		I'll tell you what it is.
		Last night, Matthew Alper made an incredible case, I thought, intellectually, a wonderful case for his argument, believe it or not, about the God part of the brain.
		And after that show, oh, the screaming is a fraud, he's a fraud, he's a fraud, I got it in email, you know, I got a lot of that.
		And so I switched gears 180 degrees tonight and put on Bob Larson.
		And same thing, equal numbers.
unidentified		He's a fraud, he's a fraud, he's a fraud.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Different group, same accusation.
		Kind of interesting.
		The one thing I do want to bring up before we go into open lines is this story from Havana from Reuters, so that you know if you want to go look up the story yourself, you're welcome to.
		It's astounding, absolutely astounding about what they have found, they believe they have found near Cuba underwater, about 2,200 feet underwater, nearly a half mile underwater.
		Let me read to you from part of the article.
		Lost City off Western Cuba.
		Most intriguingly, researchers using sonar equipment have discovered at a depth of about 2,200 feet a huge land plateau with clear images, repeat clear images of what appears to be urban development, partly covered by sand.
		From above, the shapes resemble pyramids, roads, and buildings.
		ADC is excited but reluctant to speculate until a joint investigation with the Cuban Academy of Sciences and the U.S. National Geographic Society takes place early this summer.
		It is stunning.
		What we see in our high-resolution sonar images are limitless rolling white sand plains, and in the middle of this beautiful white sand, there are clear, man-made, large-size architectural designs.
		It looks like when you fly over an urban development in a plane and you see highways, tunnels, and buildings.
		We don't know yet what it is, and we don't have the videotaped evidence of this yet, but we do not believe that nature is capable of producing planned symmetrical architecture unless it's a miracle.
		ADC's deepwater equipment includes satellite integrated ocean bottom positioning system, high-precision side-scan double-frequency sonar, and remotely operated submarine robots.
		They plan to add two submarines to take people down.
		Now, if you want to look it up, the actual title of the article is Explorers Comb Cuban Seas for Treasure.
		A Comma Mysteries.
		Reuters.
		In fact, Keith, if you're able to find that, have at it.
		Again, it's Reuters, Havana, May 15th.
		So it's a brand new story on Reuters.
		And it's entitled Explorers Comb Cuban Seas for Treasure, Mysteries.
		Absolutely astounding.
		Now, what do you suppose, what does that sound like to you?
		When they're saying they found a city, they found architectural designed buildings.
		They found roads.
		They found a civilization almost a half mile under the sea.
		What do you think they found?
		All right.
		Open lines.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi.
		All right.
		I have three comments, all religions, white witchcraft and aliens, about what the Reverend said.
		First of all, I feel that all religions have something in them and that God really cannot be contained in one religion because he's so great.
		And nobody could really know what gives God's mind, but I have an idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, but the problem with all that is that you might say that, but the religions don't say that.
		They all say, we are the only path.
		The only path.
		And if you do anything else, you're going straight.
		Well, you know where.
unidentified		Yeah, I know what they say, but my own personal belief is that God is like testing us to see how we take care of each other and how we respect each other.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, a lot of the religions would say, fine, you say that, and you're going straight to hell because you haven't found the path.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if you don't find the right path, our path, then you're doomed.
unidentified		Well, I don't know what God, I think it's the greatest true brace in the world to say, I know what God thinks.
		God changes his mind, perhaps.
		I mean, I don't know.
		I can only guess.
		But this is my opinion.
		And I think that, you know, God is gentle and loving, and he loves everybody.
		I think the truest words said were when Christ said, forgive them, God forgive them, for they know not what they do.
		And I really believe that God loves everybody if God is love.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know about that.
		I don't know about that.
		I don't know how...
		Do you think that a man's free will is man's free will, or do you think that people like Manson, Santi, people like that, are possessed?
		If they are possessed, then maybe God loves the possessed as well.
		You would certainly have to imagine that.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Oh, hi, Art.
		Hello.
		How's it going?
		This is John in Northern Idaho.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		KSPT 1400 on the AM side.
		Thank you.
		Interesting show tonight.
		Has he been on before with you?
		I don't think I've seen it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Never, never, never, never.
unidentified		No, no, very good.
unidentified		Although, I think he made a couple of mistakes on his origin or demons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where do you think they're from?
unidentified		Well, he drew on Revelation 12 as Satan being cast down to earth.
		Is that that's when they came to earth?
		Well, they've been here a long time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, I'll tell you what.
		He's gone now, so I'm not qualified to argue this with you or even really have a discussion with you.
		Oh, okay.
		I'm just not.
		And he's gone, so if he were here, I'm sure that he would take issue with you.
unidentified		Well, let's talk about the virus then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Viruses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Plural.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		We could use a good CNA, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A good what?
unidentified		Yeah, a coronal discharge to kill off all the virus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But the trouble with a good coronal discharge of the magnitude you're talking about is it would erase everything, big and small.
		In fact, I'm told that the proper size could actually sterilize a planet.
		Sterilize.
		Nothing left.
		No crawling things, no little bugs, no cockroaches, nothing.
unidentified		Well, that sounds like one sure way of fixing things around here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just like reaching over and hitting the reset button on your computer.
unidentified		That'll work too, eh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's it.
		It would reset it right to the very beginning.
		To when there was nothing.
		A void.
		In terms of life, a complete void.
		Oh, maybe the planet, barren stripped, would continue to revolve, but you'd hit that button and you'd virtually be like wiping the slate clean.
		A while ago.
		Whoops, would have been.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes.
		My name's Nick.
		I'd like to know if you're ever thinking of having the Bigfoot researcher, Robert W. Morgan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I've had Robert on a number of times, and I will absolutely have him on again.
unidentified		Oh, that'd be great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's it?
unidentified		Yeah, that's all I wanted to know, because he hasn't been on for a while, and I'm just wondering if you're ever going to have him on again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		I love listening to him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		As a matter of fact, I'd like to know what he has to say about what's going on in Delhi right now.
		Delhi.
		They've got some kind of apparent monster, what they're calling a monkey man.
		And at this point, the damage from this creature, whatever it is, is becoming so extensive that it's becoming difficult to believe that it might be, as some suspect there, a man in some kind of monkey suit.
		I mean, he has been attacking relentlessly and breaking bones and seriously injuring people and, I suppose, killing people.
		So this is very serious, whatever it is.
		Maybe it's a man, but it doesn't sound like it.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		I'm listening to you from KENI in Anchorage, Alaska.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anchorage, Alaska.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
unidentified		I didn't realize that you were off the air for a while.
unidentified		I know Chuck Carter went off for a while, but I do have for the people newsletters from him occasionally.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I was off for a while.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		About ten months, actually, so you must be an infrequent visitor.
unidentified		I listened a few years back, and then Chuck Carter went off, and I guess I stopped listening for a while.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were chuckless.
unidentified		Yeah, I really enjoy your show, too.
unidentified		It's quite entertaining.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I actually interviewed Chuck a number of years ago.
unidentified		You did?
		Mm-hmm.
		Oh, I missed him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Didn't know that, huh?
unidentified		No.
unidentified		But since I've been listening, you said your wife was doing some remote viewing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		He was not going to try that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ed Dames has a new package out, a very simple package that has a lot of sealed envelopes in it so that you can give it a try.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And yes, she is going to try that, yes.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
unidentified		I was just wondering how her progress was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nothing to report yet.
		She hasn't done it yet.
		We have so many things on our table, and when she does, I certainly will let you know how she does.
		The idea, it's kind of a unique idea when you really think about it.
		It will test, what he's offering will test the average person's natural remote viewing or psychic ability, depending on how you want to look at it.
		A very unique package, all sealed envelopes, and so you get an opportunity to try and draw pictures of what is in that envelope.
		And that's how remote viewing actually works.
		It's the beginning or the basis of remote viewing, and a lot of people are going to get a lot of surprises, I suspect.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, is it Art?
		Yep.
		Hi, this is Kevin in Sedona.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Kevin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sedona.
unidentified		I'm sorry I missed Bob.
		I had a question for him.
		I caught the program.
		He may have already mentioned it.
		Did he mention anything?
		He talks about the demons being removed from people, but did he mention that can they be destroyed at all?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, what he did say was that when a demon is removed, I asked, where does it go?
		And he said, back to where it came from.
		In other words, back to hell.
unidentified		Yeah, I heard that part.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It kind of sounds like sending an enemy soldier back to his home camp so he can be fixed up to send out again for a likely subject, they can inhabit a human body again.
		It can happen again.
		It's not like they're sent away forever.
unidentified		Yeah.
		I also had another question that I've thought about, and it kind of relates to a lot of different things going on, including all the alien sightings, the earth changes, the demons, and all of the what seems to be craziness coming out in our world.
		Nobody has ever addressed our galactic position.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, our galactic position is rather remote.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you look at where the Earth and our Sun is, compared to the rest of everything, we're kind of in the suburbs here.
unidentified		Yeah, I know, but we're rotating in the galaxy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Constantly, yes.
unidentified		And we have recently come into a new region of space that some say is more energetic than where we have been.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I have heard, yes.
unidentified		And just wondering what that change and conditioning on us has to do with all these changes taking place and coinciding with all the calendars coming to their close.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like the Mayan calendar coming together.
		I don't know.
		I only know that I observe that we are in the middle of a momentous change that's rapidly headed toward something.
		And it seems like all people on all sides, whether it's a Reverend Larson or a Matthew Alper or somebody who says they're channeling somebody or various remote viewers who run up against what they call brick walls, or, you know, all of these people are basically saying the same thing.
		So while you might dismiss any one of them, collectively I'm not so sure you can.
		Now, what's going to happen, I don't know.
unidentified		I've often wondered, though, is it all part of a long-term evolutionary cycle of our development on this planet as we move through these various stages of our galaxy?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look what they're finding half a mile below the ocean, near Cuba.
unidentified		That's amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, it's amazing.
		Now think about it for a moment.
		Maybe that means that there was another civilization on this Earth at one time, and we're just now discovering the remnants of it.
		People have frequently said, oh, that couldn't be.
		If there was another civilization, you know, where are the roads?
		Where are the buildings?
		Guess what?
		Maybe we just found some.
		It may be that humans, or that, excuse me, life comes and goes.
unidentified		Yeah.
		And to be that deep, it must have been there quite a while ago because the oceans 12,000 years ago were 100 feet lower.
		Here, here.
		So if it's that deep down, it could have been there tens of thousands of years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's actually very deep.
unidentified		The whole myth-so-called story of Atlantis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
		Exactly.
		That's right.
		And that is where many have speculated Atlantis might be that's an astounding story.
		That's why I said, Keith, if you're able to find it, the Reuters Story.
		I sure would like to get it up on the website so people can read the entire story.
		It's a lot longer than what I have read.
		Of course, U.S. companies are embargoed and not allowed to participate in any investigation because of our lack of relationship with Cuba.
		Astros Cuba.
		West of the Rockies, you're on air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		That was a great show tonight.
		You know, in the Bible, it says there was a race on earth before man.
		And I'm just wondering what that city.
		I mean, you know, you never know.
		I've got an idea for a guest that I think will put chills down your back.
		This guy just won the Associated Press Broadcast Award for investigative journalism.
		And the story went on to win the Edgar Murrow Award, which I guess is a pretty big deal, but a few years ago.
		His name's John Stevens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John Stevens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what does John Stevens do?
unidentified		Investigative producer slash reporter, but he used to be a detective.
		And years ago in Oregon, he stumbled on to, I guess you'd call it a plot.
		There was an agency that was basically taking young women.
		And they were receiving money from the state and so on.
		And they were teaching them that there was going to be a war between good and evil and that they should choose the dark side.
		This made it to television.
		I'm not kidding.
		It put chills down your back.
		But last Halloween, he was the only reporter that was invited to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you what.
		I don't have a lot of time here.
		So send me information.
		Email it to me, artbell at mindspring.com, about how I can get hold of him, and I will proceed to try and do so.
		I just sent a little memento to the people who are making a movie.
		Columbia Pictures is making a movie, and I'll tell you what I inscribed on the picture in a moment.
unidentified		Well, I think it's time to get ready To realize just what I have found I'm going to be a little bit I have head on the hair of what I am.
		It's all clear to me now.
		My heart is on fire.
		My heart is on fire.
		Don't you love her, baby?
		Don't you need her, baby?
		Don't you love her babe?
		Tell me what you say.
		Don't you love her, baby?
		Don't you love her babe?
		Don't you fucking do it!
		What you take!
		Don't drive!
		Be bumped out the door!
		Wanna take a ride?
		Call Art Bell from West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach Art at area code 775-727-1222.
		Or call the wildcard line at 775-727-1295.
		To talk with ART on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Morning, everybody.
		How you holding up, huh?
		Try and imagine in the depths of the ocean, almost a half a mile below Cuba, there's a city.
		Now, what do you think that might be, huh?
		We'll be right back.
		One more segment.
		All right.
		For those of you who would like to see it and read the entire article, let me give you a reference.
		All right, if you will be so kind as to go to my website, artbell.com, not real hard, artbell.com.
		www.artbell, A-R-T-B-E-L-L dot com.
		And on the left-hand side, you will see a section that says Library.
		Place your cursor above library and go to news and web links.
		And the very first thing you'll run into over there is Explorers Comb Cuban Seas for Treasure, Mysteries.
		My webmaster, up at the same hours that I'm up, poor fella, has found the article.
		As a matter of fact, there's a Reuters photo that goes with the article.
		And you can read all about the lost city off Western Cuba.
		Question mark.
		So be my guest.
		That's how you get to it.
		I wanted to back it up by allowing you to read the entire article if you wanted to.
		I know it sounds fantastic.
		But it's a legit news article by Reuters, and there it is for you to read.
		Be my guest.
		Library, and then to the links.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, this is the shadow from Sacramento Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The shadow from Sacramento?
unidentified		Yes, I called you last week.
		I called you in the past when you used to have Oh, yes.
		I've been around that long, calling you, but this is the second call I've called you since you've been back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Getting a little long in the tooth, aren't you?
unidentified		What's that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Getting a little long in the tooth.
unidentified		Yeah, I just missing one in the front, actually.
		Anyway, I agree with Bob Larson.
		In fact, I wanted to call you up and say the same things that Bob Larson.
		I believe exactly, you know, that a lot of his stuff about the UFOs and stuff, he said, or demon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Demons.
unidentified		Exactly.
unidentified		In fact, I have to actually tell you, one of the worst things you could do if you ever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The only problem with that theory is, and just listen very carefully, that if, and I said this to someone the other night, if these are demons, then one should be able to observe the usual,
		well, I don't know, triangle, saucer, little green guys, little gray guys, little guys of all sorts from all sorts of places, and simply say, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, be gone.
		And they should be gone as Bob Larson is able to cast out demons.
		But it just doesn't seem to work that way.
		Does it?
		Now, if you can't cast them away in the same manner, then why can we not imagine that there are both?
		That there are demons of the type Reverend Larson deals with, and other exorcists, and that there are also visitors from elsewhere.
		They would not so easily be cast away, would they?
		They might not even know whose name you're using.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		No, now you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, this is Chris from Sacramento.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Chris.
unidentified		I was just having a question.
		You were talking about demons actually, well, not you, but your guest was talking about demons inhabiting people's bodies.
		And I was wondering if angels could do the same.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think the answer was given during the program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Angels would be representatives of the good guy, right?
unidentified		Well, in my terms, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, in your terms, or in most people's terms.
		And what Reverend Larson said was that a God who created us would be unlikely to, and gave us free will as well, would be unlikely himself or his representatives to take that away from us and possess us.
		That wouldn't make much sense, would it?
unidentified		No, but our advice is more as I was questioning, like somewhat intervention from above.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, intervention and possession are very different animals.
		and there are plenty of stories of angelic intervention that have been told by many by the way next week what is today anyway I next week we're going to have a man who is going to give you're
		This NDE is going to make Sarah sound like a picnic.
		And that was pretty rough stuff, or at least that's what I'm told.
		Dr. Jeff Long, the same man who brought us Sarah, has decided to bring us a man who's going to tell us about a trip that he made to hell next week.
		First time call our line.
		You're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Brett from Seattle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Brett.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		I've been listening to your show for, geez, five, six years now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Long time, huh?
unidentified		Yeah, long time, you know.
		And I was just really, really surprised that you had Bob Larson on, of all people.
		Why?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll have anybody on.
unidentified		Yeah, you're right.
unidentified		But, you know, he's a highly, highly documented fraud.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, according to you.
		And you know, I had, see, that's what I said earlier.
		Fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud.
		Last night I had Matthew Alberon.
unidentified		Did you hear him?
		Yeah, Bob Larson.
		Did you think he was a big fraud?
		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
		Yeah, did I hear a portion of that?
		Yeah, my question was, did you think he was a big fraud?
unidentified		You know, not necessarily.
unidentified		I'd have to look into it more, but Bob Larson's somebody I've really looked into.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, fine.
		But, you know, lots of other people wrote and said, I've looked into Matthew Alper, and he's just, he's anti-God.
		He's just an atheist who's anti-God, and he's a big fraud.
		Everything he said is fraudulent, and they will quote me scripture to prove it.
		So I guess, you know, frauds are depending on your perspective.
		And I have people here who are out on every sort of edge you can imagine.
		I'm on the edge.
		And I bring people here who are on the edge.
		So depending on your perspective, you know, other people you heard called tonight and said, say, Bob Larson's absolutely for real.
		They've been there.
		They've been there.
		Nobody's ever come forth, said Reverend Larson, and said the whole thing was a fraud.
		They've investigated newspapers and so forth.
		Yet this person comes on and says a well-documented fraud.
		Everybody thinks the person they don't like is a well-documented fraud.
		Disagreement.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		If I push the button, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm calling you from Toronto, Canada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Toronto, okay.
unidentified		Yes, and you were talking about the city buried beneath the ocean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		I do believe in that.
		You know, when people lived for 900 years, they weren't just doing nothing.
		We had an advanced civilization before the flood that the Bible says buried the world.
		And another thing, there is a true ghost story recorded in the Bible.
		Did you know that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		At 1 Samuel 28, maybe you want to look it up sometime.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I will do that.
		I appreciate your call.
		A lost city?
		Sure.
		It may well be.
		Atlantis, it may well be.
		Just a piece of what may be buried beneath many of our oceans?
		Maybe.
		I don't know.
		You want to know about the article?
		You want to know more?
		Go read about it.
		We've got it on the website.
		Thanks to Keith.
		West for the Rockies.
		You're on the air.
unidentified		Hello, Mr. Bell.
unidentified		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sir.
unidentified		I emailed you twice about a situation that I had while I was in the Department of Defense and positions that I had there paranormal related.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-oh, why don't you give me some idea right now?
unidentified		Yeah, I sent you, basically we investigated.
		I was in for about four, what about five years?
		And one of the programs that I was in, we investigated paranormal type and UFO type phenomenon based on military installation solely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of program was that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you tell me?
unidentified		Government-related.
		That's about as far as I can get into it.
		No exact name per se.
		We were all under classifications.
		I was under an administrative Air Force-wise.
		I was under a 702 classification, but we were branched off into these departments.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
		Yes.
		And what sort of things did you investigate?
unidentified		We investigated everything from, believe it or not, most of these installations, you have situations just like off-bases, haunted house type situations where you have people complain, you know, I've got ghosts in here.
unidentified		That's a minor thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, that's actually a really good point.
		Nobody's ever addressed it before.
		You never hear about these sorts of things on military installations, how they are dealt with.
		If somebody goes running to the military police and says, oh my God, so-and-so is possessed or I've seen a ghost or things are moving in my house, what would the military do?
unidentified		Good question.
		We handle pretty much all that.
		We've handled UFOs.
		They happen more occurrences on bases than you realize, especially in the U.S. And a lot of that's investigated.
		It'll go to OSI and OSI dispatches it to us and then we investigate it.
		We all don't know.
		There's higher people above us just like in any structure.
		So a lot of stuff we don't know.
		People lower as myself.
		But I mean, there's a lot in the situation.
		That's why I emailed you at first.
		I thought it's something interesting that a lot of people are, like you said, of curious or wonder about.
		And it's something that I feel that the government does a lot of hiding in.
		A lot of money goes into programs like this that they try to keep on a hush-hush.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How long were you in this?
unidentified		I went in in 94, got out in 97, and then went back for a year again in 98.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And during that entire time, or the bulk of it, you were in this unit?
unidentified		All except for the first year.
unidentified		The first seven to eight months, I was based out of the F-22 out of Dayton, Ohio, out of Wright-Patterson, and then from there, I went into this program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And this program, you believe, exists today as well?
unidentified		Oh, quite sure.
		Positive.
		Is it considered classified?
		I'm sure it is, and it was then.
		It's one of those things that...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure a lot of what you run into, just like investigators on the outside, a lot of it can be explained one way or the other.
unidentified		A lot of it's not explained.
		A lot of it to this day.
		You talk about putting chills.
		I've seen things that, honestly, to this day, I can sit here and, you know, my wife doesn't even like to talk about it.
		There's issues that, you know, a lot of stuff I don't tell her about, and a lot of stuff we have discussed inside the house.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What?
unidentified		And there's situations.
		We had a call at a house.
		On one installation I was at, went down and checked the house out.
		They were hearing doors banging on the second level of a two.
		They were like two-story type houses on these bases.
		And we had went to the base.
		The neighbors kept complaining.
		No one was staying in that home.
		It was an empty base housing at the time.
		We went up into the house, checked it, nothing was there, locked the door, thought it was people, whatever, and really had no explanation for it, had left.
		Got the call on two or three separate occasions from the neighbor on the other side.
		Went back to the house again later that evening.
		This was a daytime, 5.30, 6 o'clock in the evening.
		As we opened the door, the bathroom door on the second level, which is the top of the steps, slammed shut.
		And the security police that was with us at the time, which we always had, you know, one armed person with us, had pulled his weapon thinking that someone was in the home.
		We get to the second floor.
		The bathtub is filled full of water and blood.
		The water is actually red.
		We took samples of the water.
		When we took it back to run the samples on there, the water was clear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		the water was clear That does it for me.
		I wouldn't like that at all.
		Maybe you would like to email me again.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And let's see.
unidentified		I emailed you today, actually, and left my phone number on there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Put, yes, I know, but you've got to understand I get about 2,000, 3,000 a day, so put military ghosts in the header.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you please, and I'll watch for it.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
		Everybody has got to understand, I do the best I can.
		But two or three thousand emails, which is the method I choose to correspond with a lot of you, is just too much.
		And the only way to deal with it.
		First of all, I can't slough it off on somebody else to read.
		I just can't do that.
		What I do read, I've got to read myself.
		So I go by the headers.
		You can know that.
		If you want to get my attention, put something short, succinct, and grabbing in the headline, and that'll help.
		More likely, I'll find it.
		It's a kind of a triage sort of thing.
		Otherwise, there are not enough hours in the day.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Okay, waiting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you're not waiting at all.
		You're on the air now.
		Turn your radio off and proceed.
unidentified		Oh, yes.
unidentified		Ray of L.A.?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is no wait.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're just boom on the air.
unidentified		Ray of L.A., two topics from the Mr. Larson?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		One was sleep paralysis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I want to allay people's fears.
		I have it not frequently, but too frequently for my blood.
		It's not pleasant.
		It's just annoying, but it's not the end of the world.
		I do have drift in and out of dreams.
		I see my surroundings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me slow you up a little bit.
		We asked him about that specifically, and I've asked a number of OBE-type people.
		Paralysis precedes OBEs most frequently.
unidentified		It may.
unidentified		I just want to relate my experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but the point was he said that you are vulnerable at a time like that to possession.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead and relate yours.
unidentified		Right.
		Sometimes from eating certain things, I shouldn't eat too soon before bedtime, and I can barely move my eyes.
		Sometimes I can swing my legs over and lower my head and get out of it.
		And I do drift in and out of dreams.
		Sometimes I see dream people near me, but it feels perfectly normal.
		It's nothing malevolent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think it's just a little undigested bit of baloney or something, huh?
unidentified		Right.
		And I do, the dreams are mostly pleasant.
		It's kind of half dream and half my surroundings.
		Like I look into the window, I'll see part of my dreams through the window, but I don't see it as anything other than dream life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you eat Mexican food, do you see Mexican ghosts?
unidentified		No, it doesn't really.
		The food is mostly sweet stuff and fruity stuff and it's some chemical in it.
		I want to get to my second topic because topic hours is coming real soon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		And the other is multiple personalities.
		I do seem to experience that.
		There seems to be two key factors.
		I notice it in women for two reasons.
		Because I observe it more, women more than men.
		Men are a little more inhibited in expressing emotion.
		And the two things is that they seem to be delusional into the past, like they're reliving the past or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you speaking generally of women now or of a specific woman?
unidentified		One specific woman in particular, but I've seen a little of it in others, but mostly this one particular woman who's lived alone for years.
		And it's not really delusion, except it could be living in the past where there's a tremendous need to relive something in the past or some extremely strong emotion like wanting to be right, all this right.
		And that's one part of it.
		The other half is that while they're like this, they say, I looked for this purse on the table for hours and it's only inches away from where that person looked.
		and the sensation just did not come in and register in their brain.
		And it's almost like there's some...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So anyway, bottom line, you think it's all psychological phenomena, nothing.
unidentified		I think the soul has, like Larson was saying, the soul is really the mind, body, mind, and spirit.
		And the spirit is what's immortal, from what I gather, and the mind or the soul is our consciousness.
		And there's levels to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, do you think what Larson said, Reverend Larson said, was accurate with respect to many, many times in multiple personality cases, it is demon possession.
unidentified		I would say the exact same you told me about my near-OBEs when I'm in sleep paralysis is an opening.
		So you don't believe another opening.
		I believe sleep paralysis could be an opening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But no, no, no, no.
		Wait a minute.
		Wait a minute.
		You started off the discussion telling me that it was undigested food or that it was some bad food you ate.
unidentified		I'm saying that that could trigger the sleep paralysis and the sleep paralysis could in turn be a prelude to something else because it's an opening.
		And I'm saying the same thing about multiple personalities.
		Women who have very strong emotion, extremely strong emotion that they can't express in normal human discourse, will be open to multiple personalities.
		It's usually shame or fear.
		And that that multiple personality could indeed be an opening for something larger like a demon possession.
		It's just another, you know, just like if your brakes turn off in your car, you're going to hurt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's fascinating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought you were really trashing the whole thing, but you're not.
unidentified		Absolutely not.
unidentified		It's like your car.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're saying both exist, really?
unidentified		Well, absolutely.
		If you turn the brakes off in your car on a hill, your car is going to roll.
		That leaves an opening for the car to hit something, but it doesn't necessarily guarantee that the car is going to hit something.
		It's just another consequence of a chain of events.
		But I'm saying in the beginning, having sleep paralysis is a perfectly natural thing, and having multiple personality demonstration is a very normal human thing.
		But either one of those, either or, could be an opening to what Mr. Larson was talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I'll absolutely buy that.
unidentified		Do ask your remote viewers about the solar flare's connection to having to depend on groundwater.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That'll be tonight.
		All right, sir.
		Thank you very much, and take care.
		Yes, when we come back tonight, we are going to have a couple of the original remote viewers on the program.
		Paul Smith and Russell Tark.
		That's when we're back tonight.
		And oh, one more thing.
		The story in Kentucky about the foals is growing to momentous size.
		And I've asked Linda Molten Howe to investigate for us.
		So she may have that and one additional report tonight in the first hour.
		We don't know yet.
		Depends on whether she's able to get the interview today.
		Anyway.
		Guess that's enough for one night for me, huh?

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