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May 15, 2001 - Art Bell

02:47:04

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Exorcism - Bob Larson

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	The End.
	The End.
	Writers on this call, Writers on this call,
	Into this house we're born, Into this world we're thrown.
	Wanna take a ride?
	Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	1-800-618-8255. East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach our debt area code 775-727-1222 or call the wildcard line at
	What you're about to hear is going to be scary, scary stuff.
	To talk with Art on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them
	dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	I don't issue these warnings mildly.
	What you're about to hear is going to be scary, scary stuff.
	The Reverend Bob Larson is going to be my guest.
	And he's actually, for the first time on national radio anyway, as far as I know, going to provide us with audio from as many as seven different exorcisms.
	My only exposure to exorcisms has been, other than those interviews with Father Malachi Martin, we never had audio there, was the Exorcist movie, and that scared the heck out of me.
	This is going to be kind of rough stuff tonight, seriously.
	So, if there are kids in the room, or if you're one, you might not want to listen.
	Otherwise, directly ahead.
	Beware.
	The Reverend Bob Larson is an expert on cults, the occult, the supernatural.
	He has lectured in more than 80 countries, has appeared on TV shows like Oprah, Donahue, Sally, Jesse, CNBC, Talk Live, MSNBC Investigates, Larry King Live, The O'Reilly Factor, Politically Incorrect.
	His work featured in the Los Angeles Times and the New York Times.
	Larson is the host of Talk Back, a coast-to-coast radio program, is the author of 29 books, holy mackerel, including Shot Talk, Dead Air, Larson's Book of Spiritual Warfare and Extreme Evil, Kids Killing Kids.
	That's Bob Larson.
	We've got a link to his website on our website right now.
	Here is the Reverend Bob Larson.
	Bob, welcome.
	Nice to talk to you, Art.
	I've been looking forward to a long time talking to you.
	I've been looking forward to it myself, and it was quite a job getting to you, I might add.
	Your people protect you very well.
	Got a lot of people out there who make my life difficult.
	You understand that?
	I do, I do.
	I'm very protective, and I know someone like you can appreciate that.
	Actually, that's something I wanted to bring up before we get into all we have to do tonight.
	You have a lot of enemies, don't you?
	Sure.
	Well, Jesus Christ did, so I guess I'm in good company.
	I guess you are, but you do.
	I mean, you said when we first talked, I don't know, it was a couple of weeks ago, You said you're going to hear a lot from my enemies, and I have.
	They are relentless, aren't they?
	They absolutely hate you.
	Now, these are your enemies.
	There are a lot of people who love you, too, but I'm telling you, you've got serious enemies.
	So did my guest last night.
	Did you happen to hear any of my guests last night?
	You know, I really wish I would have.
	No, I didn't.
	His name is Matthew Alper.
	He's written a book, he wrote it several years ago, called The God Part of the Brain.
	Actually, it would have been a rather interesting debate.
	His contention is, simple, that mankind has one great overriding fear, and that is the fear of death.
	I would assume you probably would agree with that.
	Yeah, yes.
	His contention is that the process of evolution, which you may not agree with, has caused the brain to develop a part of the brain which can be measured and seen on MRI by the way uh... which actually protects you and protects everybody against that fear by instilling in them the need to worship something in other words basically he's saying there is no god what there is is a part of your brain that demands you worship and as backup for this he he says you go to the most remote tribe
	In South America you can find, or anywhere else in the world, and you will find they worship something, and that man is driven to worship something and believe in an afterlife as a defense, the brain's defense, against this greatest fear.
	It seems to me that that's very much akin to what I would believe, that God created a vacuum inside man that can only be satisfied in a relationship with God, and it could well be that He and the others are discovering what God did to the human nature of who we all are in the beginning.
	That's what I said to him.
	In other words, he can't prove a negative, of course.
	He can't prove there isn't a God.
	And I said, well, look, this spot of the brain that you have identified, science has now identified, why can't that be, in fact, from God?
	And, well, you know, he can't really deny that.
	So, that's true.
	How long have you been a reverend?
	I've been in the ministry more than 20 years, doing radio, television, writing books, traveling, and public speaking.
	It's only been in the last three-plus years, going back to March 12, 1988, that I've actually been doing these public exorcisms that have created so much attention.
	By the way, Matthew Alper has as many or more enemies than you do.
	I'm glad to know that.
	It's interesting to find somebody does.
	Listen, anybody who doesn't have enemies is not making any waves at all, really.
	No kidding.
	And so I tend to have people sort of out on the edge, on the air.
	And that's just the way it is, and there's a lot of reaction to it, and you're a pretty controversial guy.
	You know that yourself, right?
	Yes, I do.
	In fact, I remember you making that kind of a comment in your book, The Art of Talk, which someone was kind enough to send me, and I did a quick read on.
	You mentioned that about people making waves.
	That's right.
	That, you know, if you're not making some waves out there, you're not making a significant impact on your world, and you're not making anybody upset.
	That's right.
	I don't make them just for the sake of making them, but I like things that are out on the edge.
	And if that's the way it is, and it's a natural thing, then fine.
	And that's what this is.
	I first explored exorcism, other than the movie, The Exorcist, with Father Malachi Martin.
	Have you heard of him?
	Oh, most certainly.
	Certainly.
	A man that I wish I would have had the privilege of meeting, who was obviously very courageous in his time.
	I knew him very well.
	I interviewed him many times on this program, and he told me about exorcisms.
	And what he had to say about them was chilling.
	I mean, really chilling.
	But hearing them, and I listened to a couple of tracks already.
	I didn't even have the guts to listen to all of these tracks.
	I listened to maybe the first two or three, and I went, oh man, this is really going to scare some folks.
	Welcome to my world.
	That's my life almost every single day.
	We do what we call spiritual freedom conferences around the country every single weekend.
	In fact, we'll be in Las Vegas in a couple of weeks on the first and the second.
	Really?
	Yeah, I just may have to drive up to prompt while I'm there.
	But yes, and what you hear is just, you know, on this CD that we sent you is very typical.
	I hear this all the time.
	And of course, it's not just hearing those voices.
	It's looking directly into the eyes, into the soul And literally, I get eyeball to eyeball with these people,
	man.
	I'm literally maybe an inch or two away from their face as those voices are speaking.
	And you literally look into the abyss of hell as you hear those voices.
	Do you have no doubt whatsoever with regard to the existence of heaven and conversely
	hell?
	No.
	And neither really does anybody who come to our conferences.
	I tell them, you will never walk away ever again questioning whether there is a God or a devil, whether there's good and evil, because you will see it dramatically displayed.
	And I've seen it so many thousands of times, it's made an imprint on my soul that nobody could ever take away.
	Well, there's obviously good and evil.
	The question is whether there is external good and evil.
	You have defined Let's go over some of the definitions.
	That's probably useful.
	What is possession?
	Well, semantically it's a term which for practical purposes has an explanation, but in the spiritual realm, it doesn't really mean much.
	So let me caution by saying, I always tell people up front, first, we're talking about a metaphysical, invisible phenomenon that is non-spatial.
	We're trying with a construct of language to give it sense and meaning.
	Well, really you can't do that.
	Furthermore, you're trying to use English language terms to describe the inexplicable.
	Now having said that, classically what we define as possession is when an evil spirit or a demon somehow resides within the person to the extent that neuropsychologically they can express themselves through the faculties of the person.
	In other words, they actually use the body, the eyes, the voice for a form of expression.
	And they become, when they are out or manifested or present, that being through the body of that person.
	Case in point, I remember one particular instance written about in one of my books of a girl who was legally blind.
	In fact, she had to be led about by the hand.
	When the demon was out, and there were many witnesses to this, the first thing we knew that when the demon was coming out, it would reach up and take her glasses off and say, I hate these things.
	They get in my way.
	I had a fine print Bible, and it read it holding it two feet away without any problem.
	But when she came back to herself, she'd immediately reach for the glasses.
	What happens to the host during the time that The possession is ongoing and the demon or whatever is out.
	What happens to the soul, the spirit of the possessed?
	Where is it?
	Well, we really speak of the consciousness or the soul part of the person, which is the animating life force of emotion and the sentient nature of who the person is.
	One of two things, either oblivion or what we call co-consciousness.
	We have some people for whom, while we're doing an exorcism, there is no awareness.
	They've checked out.
	They don't even know what happens.
	They may come two minutes or hours later with no knowledge of what went on.
	Other people, and this is very common, have co-consciousness.
	And while the exorcism is taking place, I've had them describe to me, they say it's like a movie in the mind.
	I see and hear what's happening, but I am powerless to intervene Because something else is expressing all of this through my body and my lips.
	And they actually, they feel that and see that as they would in a detached manner.
	Yes, but they have no way, when the demon is out, the demon is, for example, speaking through their voice.
	Maybe, we run into this often, speaking a foreign language through their voice.
	And they're hearing this language come out of their body through their lips.
	They know they're not speaking it, but they hear it.
	Are you familiar with out-of-body OBE experiences?
	I'm sure you are.
	Yes.
	All right.
	I've had a whole bunch, a whole string of guests, experts on OBEs, and I had one very brief uninvited OBE myself, and so I know there's something to it because it happened to me.
	Anyway, bottom line, all of these guests inevitably say, Nothing bad can ever happen to you when you're out of your body.
	Don't worry about it.
	Enjoy it.
	Explore it.
	Use it.
	And I've always thought, well, if you're out of your body, would that not be some sort of possible invitation for somebody out there looking for one to take over?
	You got it.
	That's exactly what can and does happen.
	In fact, I've encountered many cases of possession that occurred when people, for whatever reason, had OBEs.
	Because, at that point, the animation of the will or the process of the moral defense of human nature is sort of in neutral.
	So, then these guests that I've had, I've challenged them again and again and again on this point, and they always say, no, no, it's safe.
	You're saying, no, no, it's not safe.
	Well, I remember one particular gentleman talking about The typical experience of floating above your body, seeing the core, sometimes described as the silver core or whatever, attached.
	He's up there and he saw this dark shadow moving toward his body and he knew that he had to get back there quick or that thing was going to get in and it was a race for him to get back before this dark shadow came into it.
	Strange you would say dark shadow.
	You know, that's something else that I've been really... You heard my first hour, I think, right?
	A little bit of it, yes.
	Did you happen to hear the psychiatric worker who called?
	I did not.
	You didn't.
	One day I had this person call and say, you know, Art, I've been seeing these, what he called, shadow people in my peripheral vision.
	You know how you sometimes see a little movement in your peripheral vision, something moving, and you look over and there's nothing there?
	And then I had, I tell you, Reverend, I had five, maybe six thousand emails from people who said, not only do I see these so-called shadow people, that's what they call them, but I'm beginning to see them with full-on sight.
	And so I did a program on it, and I had a Native American guest, and we had people begin to send in drawings, images of what they were seeing, and they were remarkably similar.
	These shadow creatures or beings that people are beginning to see in increasing numbers, something's going on.
	Well, I have of course dealt with many such cases in which these were the manifestations of the presence of a demon.
	It's always possible some of this could be a psychological phenomenon for whatever reason.
	Could be.
	But in many cases I will have people, as they describe demons, all the way from Fang creatures with blood dripping from their mouths to just a dark presence that's there.
	That's right.
	With no visible expression.
	That's right.
	Almost formless.
	That's right.
	It's just, it'll be hovering over in a corner somewhere.
	Exactly.
	Watching them.
	Oh yeah.
	And you think these are, now what specifically is a demon?
	Well a demon specifically is a fallen angel.
	Part of, according to Revelation chapter 12, The one-third of heaven's angels who were in the insurrection originally with Lucifer and they were cast out of the heavens and they are now these disembodied spirits who are looking for a way to destroy the goodness and the purposes of God and because the devil is is a spirit he must bring about his ultimate evil through his presence in human bodies because there's only so much he can do in the ethereal world of the metaphysical
	Just like God.
	By God's presence in our lives, we are His hands, His feet, and when we love our neighbor and help our fellow man, we are expressing the will and purpose of God.
	But God never seems to manifest Himself, even through others, in the way that demons do, or is it simply not as dramatic?
	Well, God does, but God never takes over.
	God is a creature of love, so He submits himself to our will, and we by moral choice then choose to do good as an expression of him.
	But evil is not quite so nice about how they go about it.
	God is the one who gave us free will, so he would obviously not be the one to take it away with possession.
	But the devil has no such compunction about that, and so the devil will take over someone to cause them to commit heinous acts from murder to mayhem.
	Well, as you know, we're in a time in America now where, indeed, you can pick up a newspaper almost any day or any week, I guess I ought to say, and a child killing a child, a child killing a teacher, a child killing a parent, it's all, it's just, when I was growing up in the 50s, I'm now 55, soon 56 years old, that didn't happen.
	This is a relatively recent phenomena.
	In the kind of numbers we're having right now, is it not?
	Oh, absolutely.
	The kind of evil that I wrote a book about, called Extreme Evil, is very different.
	It's an evil over the edge that we've never known, certainly in our culture.
	And what do you think is driving it?
	Well, take for example the shooting in Santee, California a couple of months ago.
	Right.
	Andy Williams.
	One of the most remarkable things about that is that here's a kid No prior criminal history.
	Right.
	A little messed up, but certainly no one that you would think would have the capacity to murder in cold blood.
	Right.
	More importantly, smiling while he's pulling the trigger.
	That's right.
	This is an obvious giveaway.
	This is not just a deranged mind.
	In fact, the kid who said in court seemed to be almost detached from knowing, having any relationship to what he did.
	Why?
	I agree.
	Because while he was doing it, He was animated by a deep internal evil that was smiling through his lips as the trigger was pulled.
	On that note, hold on, we'll be right back.
	The Reverend Bob Larson is my guest.
	And what lies ahead is pretty dark stuff, so be aware and be warned.
	I'm Art Bell and this is Coast to Coast AL.
	Woah...
	In the springtime of the year When the trees are crowned with leaves
	When the islands shook and the birds knew Dressed in ribbons fair
	When the night was cold and the breath was smooth In the blue veil of the night
	The shadow of summer dreams appear Amidst the lantern's light
	Wanna take a ride?
	Well, call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach our debt 1-775-727-1222.
	The wildcard line is open at 1-800-825-5033.
	And to reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
	Well, I'll give one last warning.
	My wife listened to some of these things that you're about to hear.
	Some of these excerpts from Exorcisms and She said, be careful.
	That kind of thing opens doors.
	And I don't know that that is true.
	We'll ask the Reverend here shortly.
	Maybe it does.
	At any rate, it certainly is rough stuff.
	Not for kids.
	So please adjust your listening accordingly.
	It's going to get rough.
	Once again, the Reverend Bob Larson.
	Welcome back, Bob.
	Thank you very much.
	You have some definitions here with regard to what makes a person susceptible to demon possession in the first place.
	And there are some pretty rough categories here.
	What does make a person susceptible or likely to invite such a thing?
	Any number of things.
	Someone may be cursed from a past generation.
	So curses are real?
	Oh, very, very real.
	I constantly deal with people Who in their bloodline have carried the spiritual genetic imprint of something that may have happened hundreds of generations ago that they know nothing about.
	It's very common to find that somebody way back when made a pact with the devil for whatever and as a result that follows down to the family line.
	Now there is free moral choice but the person is born into this world with that demonic vulnerability and They have to make their own choices, but they've got two strikes against them before they step into the box.
	So then, by extension, witchcraft is real?
	Oh, absolutely it is.
	Those kinds of powers are real.
	Now, we're not talking about the superstitious kind of witchcraft, or the sort of, you know, go in the woods and dance naked and pretend.
	We're talking about the real thing, the real malevolency, where people genuinely have evil aims.
	And then, of course, you can willfully allow yourself, by creating Circumstances of grave moral evil, and by just playing with the occult, by venturing into territory where you're unprotected, don't know what you're doing, and don't have God's presence with you.
	Ouija boards?
	Absolutely.
	Abuse, sexual molestation, incest, addiction, drugs.
	The biggest form of possession in our culture is through sexual violation, because It destroys what I call the spiritual immunology of an individual's natural protective systems.
	I believe God grants each of us in this life a sense of well-being and character that doesn't want true evil.
	We come into this world with a fear of evil, but what happens is that when we're violated, we are so decimated in the strength of the character and integrity of value and worth, we become an easy target for evil.
	So a high percentage of the people we deal with have been incested, molested, horribly violated, particularly as small children.
	Father Martin said to me frequently that there's a very large body of people walking in our population who are what he called perfectly possessed and by that he meant uh... he said i i i know them when i pass them on the street they have in effect made their deal with the devil and frequently they are successful people they are uh... politically powerful people they're very well to do people and they are in fact perfectly possessed they just made some kind of compact at some point
	With a dark side, and they're doing well here, but may not do so well ultimately.
	I would agree with that completely.
	And I encounter the same individuals.
	And they seem to be those folks who don't have a sense of moral conscience.
	Who are absolutely detached from their actions.
	Well, Timothy McVeigh is maybe quite obviously the most perfect example in front of us.
	No compass at all?
	No.
	They've lost their moral compass.
	You know, I believe that God always leaves a shred of light within every individual, that if they will turn to that, there is hope for them.
	And I've often said, you know, if you've got one percent left of the moral consciousness of God, Satan can never totally dominate you.
	But there are those people who reach the 99 percent, and there's not a lot of hope for them unless they truly strive toward God.
	The Catholic Church really puts any individual claiming possession through the grinder before they will agree.
	It's very rare they agree to do an exorcism.
	What is the history of exorcism, and how did you get involved in this very strange, unusual ritual?
	Well, those are really two questions.
	The history of exorcism, of course, is as old as antiquity.
	There's evidence of this in all All cultures of the past, and certainly even at the time of Christ, there were Jewish exorcists who traveled the country.
	And when Christ came along, what was truly significant was the fact that He declared to be able to do this through the power of His name, not some ritualistic formula.
	And then the early church practiced it quite commonly.
	It was lost, and then The Reformation didn't do it much good, although it resurrected it for a while.
	It's only been in the last few decades that it's come to prominence once again.
	Now for me, I first encountered the demonic traveling overseas as a young man and witnessing various pagan self-mutilation rituals.
	And as I witnessed these rituals in various parts of the Indian Asia, When these people would go into catalytic seizures as they would maybe be, you know, going through these bloody ceremonies of stabbing themselves or puncturing themselves, whatever, they would say, this is the evidence of the spirits entering into us.
	Well, I saw that and I prayed a simple prayer that is one of the most dangerous prayers to pray.
	Lord, use me.
	If I can be of help in this area.
	I returned to America and as I write about in my book, A Spiritual Warfare, nothing much happened for several years.
	I began to study the phenomenon until one night in St.
	Louis, Missouri, a 15-year-old girl walked up to me and said, I have sex with the devil.
	I thought this was a joke.
	I thought this was just a kid with an overactive imagination.
	And I tried to put her off.
	She kept saying, no, you don't understand.
	I have sex with the devil.
	And the next thing I knew, this unearthly voice was speaking out of her body.
	This is a 15-year-old, not terribly cultured girl from sort of the backwoods of Missouri.
	And this very refined British accent in this voice is saying, you cannot have her.
	She is mine.
	Leave her alone.
	That was my introduction.
	How, Reverend, do you delineate between the possessed and the mentally ill?
	Well, I do my best, and it's really not very hard, because when people will come to me and say things like, well, I hear voices, well, my first question is, you know, are you on your lithium?
	Have you seen a mental health professional?
	And sometimes when they say they haven't, I say, go back and see one and then return to me and we'll talk again.
	The truly possessed have some of the characteristics of the mentally ill, but in the thousands of cases I've dealt with, these are people who for the most part are very lucid.
	In fact, I really don't want to deal with someone who is mentally ill who may or may not have demonic phenomena.
	Because it's just dangerous territory to get into.
	I prefer that person to see a mental health professional and come to me sometime later when they're in a more stable mental state.
	But speaking of dangerous, I mean the rights of exorcism, I am told, have been told, it can be extremely dangerous for the exorcist.
	Oh yes, well, I mean on a regular basis, I mean on a weekly basis, I am assaulted, threatened, In any one single weekend, I am told by spirit voices that they're going to kill me so many times, I can't even count it.
	I mean, I live under the constant threat of these things, promising all sorts of mayhem upon me and my loved ones.
	So that's very typical.
	And yes, I have been violently assaulted on numbers of occasions.
	I'm always very careful.
	Before I go into a meeting where I'm going to do exorcisms, I ask for several large men to be at the ready to tackle people, hang on to them.
	I've seen cases where a 95-pound woman can't be controlled by eight men.
	Yeah, I've heard of that.
	People have been known to, when their children are under cars, pick up automobiles.
	I guess the strength comes Somehow from the same place, doesn't it?
	Beyond yourself, more than you could possibly do.
	You know, this is more than an adrenaline rush.
	More than that.
	Yeah, it's more than that.
	I mean, I've seen a frail woman, you know, pick up a 200 pound man with one arm, just lift him in the air.
	And this is not, again, since I've been doing this publicly for three years, I have done hundreds and hundreds of these in front of thousands and thousands of people, so these are not just stories.
	These are things which have occurred in the full view of people, witnessed by thousands and scores of cities across America.
	How do you eliminate or reduce the risk of whatever it is jumping to you?
	I'm always very cautious.
	When I approach it, I've learned to sort of tell when it's about to explode.
	Have you ever made a mistake?
	Yes.
	A couple of times I've been blindsided.
	A woman one time hit me from the rear.
	I wasn't looking.
	I was looking to another part of the audience and she got down on top of me, took my tie, twisted it and was choking me.
	Four or five men had to literally drag her away or she would have choked me to death.
	I've been kicked, very violently hit, bitten, spit on constantly.
	But again, I've learned how to be cautious about that, and so what I tell these men, I just say, look, if you see me start motioning to you to get kind of behind this person, and I'm starting to, if they're about to explode, I'm going to look at you, grab them.
	And don't hesitate, because I don't want them hurting me or themselves.
	I've got a wife, two children, one on the way.
	I want to come home safely to them.
	I hear you.
	And people will say, well, if it's God's power, well now, wait a minute.
	There is also the human will involved here, too.
	So when you first begin to deal with someone on exorcism, you're dealing not just with the evil, But the will of the person which may have been acting in concert with that demon.
	In other words, they may have been, until now, allowing that demon to use them for violent purposes.
	And so you've got to, when you first encounter them, talk that person into a moral state where they will resist that evil because they may not have been doing it.
	And so you've got the cooperativeness of the will and the human strength versus the supernatural.
	Well, you must have a lot of work, because, I'm sorry to keep referring to Father Malachi, the late Father Malachi Martin, but he taught me so much, and one of the things he told me was, he took care of the Manhattan area in New York.
	Oh, a lot of them there, I can imagine.
	And he said, Art, in the last year or two, the need for exorcism in my area is up by 800%.
	Now, if we are to imagine a war between heaven and hell, between God and the devil, and we have numbers like this appearing before us, what does that mean, Reverend?
	It means several things.
	First, that we are near the return of Jesus Christ, and as prophesied, there would be an outbreak of evil.
	It also means that uh... the breakdown in the moral fiber of the country
	which has previously restrained people
	has made it more bold and more free to function than ever before
	so the devil's getting a pretty good foothold and uh... we're
	making it easy for him
	or were making it very easy for him and if you just look at the violence level
	of inhumanity in our society today and how little is done about it
	I was told recently by a prison chaplain in a large state that over 13 prisons that he looks after, 80% of the juvenile offenders in there have been sexually violated.
	80%? 80%.
	What are we as a culture doing to address that?
	How often are the pedophiles turned back out on the streets again to torment our children?
	What are we doing remedially to help people who got in that place because the abused became the abuser, became the abuser, became the abuser?
	We've got this cycle of abuse and violence in our society.
	We're simply looking the other way and not doing too much about it, and the devil has a heyday in that realm.
	Is the United States unique in that, or is it equally prevalent worldwide?
	The United States and the Western world is unique.
	I was asked this question in a conference this last weekend by a man of East Indian descent, and I responded to him, I said, you know, if I were to go to India, I certainly would meet demons.
	But I would not encounter the level of perverted, violent demons that I encounter here, because I said, even though by Christian standards, India is a pagan, idolatrous country, it in fact has a very strong moral fiber, as does much of the Far East, and it has a strong nuclear extended family structure, which is a deterrent to evil.
	Because people have a sense of belonging and acceptance, and humanity is not devalued.
	But we've devalued humanity in American culture, which is given the devil free reign.
	So I said to this man, I would not think of dealing with violent demons of rape and incest and crime and abuse in India, but I certainly would be sensitized to dealing with that in America.
	So in some ways, we have become the most evil culture on earth.
	Do you have any idea of why that is, Reverend?
	In other words, what evil turn have we taken?
	Well, I think, first of all, as I said a moment ago, the lack of the extended family.
	Where you have strong family structure, you have accountability.
	You have people also who have a sense of value and worth.
	I'd say that an extremely high percentage of the cases I deal with, maybe half or more, are people who have never known love.
	Their parents abandoned them.
	They've never known a significant person who cared about them intrinsically for who they were.
	Here's what confuses me.
	In a country like India or China or Japan, which is all these non-Christian countries, you would think the devil would just have a heyday, because nobody's going to be calling out the name Jesus to get rid of some sort of demon nearby.
	Right?
	Nobody's going to be calling out that name.
	That is true.
	But remember, the devil not only traffics in the absence of the knowledge of God, but in the presence of the destruction of innate humanity.
	In other words, the devil's greatest ability to get someone is found When that person lacks the moral fiber to resist evil, and a lot of that moral fiber comes from what I call the sense of character, belonging, and virtue, the identity we have from those who have loved us and told us our life has significance.
	And the person who doesn't see significance in his life, what's the problem with evil?
	What has he got to lose?
	What did Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold have to lose?
	I mean, they are typical of the lost souls of the children of our culture, raised in an environment where there is no sense of moral fiber, accountability, or meaning, based upon a parent who has said, I love you, care about you, I will give your life significance.
	And that kind of person, evil becomes quite attractive to them.
	Then, these are all signs, and these are all signs of an acceleration Toward the end of everything?
	Toward the return of Jesus?
	I believe that.
	The Bible says Satan has come down with a great fury, knowing that his time is short.
	Now, the Bible teaches Satan does not know when the end shall be.
	No man knows that but God the Father.
	However, he certainly has a good cultural sense of seeing how near we are to complete moral chaos.
	And as a result, He has sort of held back until now, but he has no reason to hold back anymore.
	Is it safe to listen to what we're about to listen to?
	I believe it's safe, yes, as long as someone would not entertain some type of healthy fascination.
	You know, I was doing an exorcism one time, and there was someone who was present, and as the demon was about ready to leave, the person said, hey, you can have me.
	Oh, that's a very dumb, dumb thing to say.
	Bad idea.
	Darwin Award winner.
	We'll be right back.
	Reverend Bob Larson is my guest.
	I'm Art Bell.
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	This is Coast to Coast AM, with Art Bell, from the Kingdom of Nine.
	Last warning.
	This hour, we're going to begin playing some audio from actual exorcisms.
	And to many of you, this is going to be very disturbing, so... Last warning.
	All right, now we're going to do something we've never done before.
	We're going to play a series of audio clips the Reverend Larson has provided of actual exorcisms.
	Let's do it, Reverend.
	This first clip that we're about to play, I presume that you have some background for us on what we're hearing?
	I'm not sure exactly which order you have them here.
	I think I know which order you have them.
	Yes, if it's the one I think it is.
	This is Shane.
	Shane was in Chesapeake, West Virginia, and it was in a public meeting in a school auditorium, and he was seated on the front row, and I simply, as I was speaking, walked in front of him, and this hideous growl came out of his body.
	And then you hear a little bit of the conversation that ensued after that growl.
	All right.
	Let's do it.
	Here it is.
	Say, I death.
	I death.
	Renounce.
	Say, I renounce.
	Say, I renounce.
	I renounce.
	All claims.
	All claims!
	All claims!
	To shame!
	Ah, to shame!
	Ah, that's, ah, that's really, ah, that's difficult to listen to.
	That was coming out of a young man?
	Young man, in his early twenties, he was there with, I believe with his wife that night, the father of a new little baby girl.
	In fact, I was back in that part of the country sometime after that, I don't remember how long, and he came to another one of my conferences and came up, big smile on his face, gave me a big hug.
	He was there with his little girl and his wife.
	Totally, absolutely changed man once this exorcism was over with.
	Absolutely changed.
	What happens to these demons, I guess they're demons, what happens to these demons when they leave the body?
	Well, I've sort of, I've said tongue-in-cheek, I'm the only minister in America that gets the privilege of telling the devil to go to hell on a regular basis.
	And that's literally what happens.
	So they return from where they came from?
	We send them to the abyss, or hell, to torment.
	And they stay there.
	The Bible is not really clear on this.
	The Bible does teach that some fallen angels, some evil spirits, have to stay in torment because of what it says they left their first estate.
	And there are all sorts of theories about that.
	But the rest of them seem to be until the end of time, as prophesied in the Revelation.
	They have the ability to come back out of the abyss if there's a willing recipient.
	Otherwise, until the end of time.
	Otherwise, they stay there in torment, unless there's someone who welcomes them back out and gives them an assignment, so to speak.
	When the end comes, I'm not much of a churchgoer, Reverend, and I've seen movies like The Seventh Sign, for example.
	I suppose you saw that.
	Yeah.
	uh... is that the way it's going to happen uh... that was hollywood's way or is that pretty close to uh... sort of we have a broad general picture of what's going to happen at the end we know that there will be a terrible moral decline to tremendous increase in technology uh... and really oh yes absolutely and that's one of the things the bible talks about the uh...
	Exponential increase in knowledge there will be at the end, but that only leads further to the arrogance of man, thinking he can solve all his problems.
	Then, there are divisions within the Christian community as to what will happen next.
	Some believe that, as a popular book series has posited recently, that Christ will return and there will be a rapture In which millions of Christians will disappear, followed by seven years of hell on earth, at the end of which will be Armageddon, and the final battle between good and evil.
	Now, I happen to ascribe to that particular belief, but there are many well-meaning Christians who don't, all do agree, pretty much, that there will be, at the end of the age, a massive Middle East conflict Well, first of all, I don't think all Christians are going to get sucked up at all.
	other and it's at that point then at the revelation tells the final defeat of the enemy will
	be brought about in state will be cast
	with all of his demons into the lake of fire well personal i don't think all christians are going to get
	sucked up at all by uh... i i know too many christians who i am afraid
	uh... will preach at you all day long and uh... then uh...
	frankly there's some of the most on ethical
	and moral characters that i know and they're going to be stuck down here with
	the rest of us Some of them have demons.
	Maybe that's it.
	Maybe that's right.
	That is it.
	That is it.
	That's why they claim to be followers of Christ but they actually have evil spirits inside them causing them to act quite to the contrary.
	Alright, here's another one.
	This is Jeff.
	Oh yeah, Jeff.
	What can you tell us about Jeff?
	This is a real interesting one.
	And for sake of documentation, as I remember these, I'll tell you exactly where they happened.
	This was in the city of Red Deer, Alberta, Canada.
	In a workshop at one of our conferences, Jeff is 6'5", about 250.
	Huge man, in the middle of the conference, again witnessed by hundreds of people, he stood to his feet and started lumbering toward me in sort of Frankenstein style, just like he couldn't quite walk, he was just lumbering.
	And the first words out of his mouth as he stood were, do I murder you now or later?
	He came toward me.
	And he hovered over the top, and I'm 5'8", okay?
	He hovered over the top of me with his hands shaking around my throat, just, you know, millimeters away from my throat.
	Right.
	Uttering curses against God, and the only thing between him and me was my Bible.
	Is there a lot of that, by the way, and obviously we cannot play that sort of thing on the air.
	But there's a lot of that, a lot of the really foul language.
	Oh yes, yes.
	And I, you know, I never played on the air either, but it does happen in horrible, horrible curses.
	I had a case recently.
	I was at a large Baptist church and a young, handsome young fellow who was an usher in the church, God spoke to me and said, go pray for him.
	And what I often do is I walk out in the crowd sort of provoking these demons and I thought, This kid doesn't look like a problem.
	He's studying for the ministry.
	I went to touch him and pray for him, and he flew out of the pew in a violent rage, cursing God's name, uttering the most vile four-letter words, right in the middle of this church.
	Very common.
	Jeff, that you're alluding to, the only thing between him and me was my Bible, and for one hour I stood holding my Bible between him and me, quoting Bible verses from memory, warding him off.
	And everybody was afraid to grab him.
	In this case, he got there before anybody could get to him, and he was so huge, they were so afraid if anybody tried to touch him, I mean, he'd have his hands on my throat before they could move.
	So in other words, what people are going to hear here is only a small slice of what went on for an hour.
	Yes.
	And a lot of which we can't broadcast.
	Here it is.
	Who do you think I am?
	I'm asking the questions here.
	Do you have legal authority?
	Yes or no?
	I was born into him.
	Do you still have remaining legal authority?
	He's renounced all that.
	Do you have any remaining legal authority?
	Yes or no?
	No.
	What is your name?
	Who are you?
	I am anger.
	And I am lies.
	I am cheat.
	I am steal.
	And I am murder.
	I bind all those functions of cheating, lying, stealing, murdering, and all those parts, I bind them together right now.
	I bind them together.
	Say, I anger.
	I anger!
	Murder and the rest.
	Murder and the rest.
	Remove the curse.
	Remove the curse.
	From this man.
	From this man.
	And his children.
	And his children.
	And all future generations.
	Generations!
	Good Lord.
	You used the word, you bind.
	Yes.
	Bind.
	I am familiar with witchcraft, Reverend.
	Witches use the word bind.
	Yes.
	Well, Christ established the principle.
	He said, whatsoever you bind on earth shall be bound.
	Whatsoever you loose on earth shall be loosed.
	And that was spoken to Peter and to his disciples as part of the authority that he would give Christians.
	And so as we come against evil, we bind it.
	It's a term of restraint.
	And so what I'm doing is saying, I restrain you from your evil and expressing it, and in this case, from attacking me physically.
	Are you, in the movie The Exorcist, one of these things, is there ever an occasion, Reverend, where possession is by, not necessarily a demon, but by the devil himself?
	I do not believe that.
	The Bible, I believe, teaches there are two cases where the devil himself actually enters in.
	One was Judas Iscariot.
	The Bible says Satan entered into him, the devil.
	And the other is the Antichrist, who will be the one, as we talked about a moment ago, who will lead this fight against God at the end of the age and will be incarnated by the devil himself.
	It certainly doesn't serve the devil's purposes.
	Remember that the devil is not omnipotent as God is.
	He is not omniscient and omnipresent as God is.
	So while God's power can be everywhere at all times, the devil has spatial limitations to who he is, in the sense that he can't be everywhere at once.
	So He would not want to come into someone because then he can't be directing his troops on a worldwide basis of evil.
	There are those who say the Antichrist is alive on Earth now.
	Do you believe that may be so?
	I believe indeed it may be so, though I think that kind of speculation is a little dangerous because, you know, we don't want to get ourselves into a trap If he isn't, of causing people to fall away from faith when he didn't show up.
	But personally, just in my historical view of culture and life as it is, and in my view as an exorcist, I have to believe that he is.
	The outbreak of evil that we see now, you alluded to it earlier, when was there a time When people would go postal, when, you know, your worker on the computer next door walks in the following day and puts a bullet through your brain.
	Only now.
	Yes.
	And we've never seen this exponential increase in such extreme evil as we have now.
	So that leads me to believe something is about to happen.
	You are able to deal with what we're hearing here, these exorcisms, on an individual basis.
	Yes.
	If something, as you put it, is about to happen, that will be beyond your scope?
	Yes, because that's in the grander scheme of things.
	Certainly, I believe that what I am doing is a deterrent.
	By the way, I want to make an important point here.
	This is not just about me.
	We have what we call do what Jesus did teams.
	Not what would Jesus do, but do what Jesus did, because Jesus did cast out demons, which are exorcism teams that we teach and train, and we now in more than 50 cities have established them.
	Our goal is that no one should be more than a day's drive away from a city where they can get an exorcism, and that's not true in America today.
	So we are teaching and training these teams, and we have scores of teams around the country that every week meet And they themselves do dozens of exorcisms.
	So it's not just about who I am.
	The knowledge to do this can be transmitted to others.
	It can be, shall we say, learned.
	And I believe that's one of the ways that we must fight this evil.
	No one person can fight it.
	Well, if you have that extensive a group across the country, then you must be more aware than anybody I've talked to about the increase in the amount of evil and possession going on.
	Oh yes, and these teams, the national facilitator of our teams was telling me just yesterday that one particular group, this is very common, has now a waiting list of 300 people who have been pre-qualified.
	That means they've gone through an extensive questionnaire process that deals with medical and psychiatric issues to find out whether or not this is truly legitimate.
	They've got a waiting list in one city of 300 people.
	What do you say to people who say all of this isn't legitimate at all, that it's all some kind of fakery, that it's some sort of psychological aberration on the part of these people?
	I invite them to come to our conferences.
	Go to boblarzson.org, see where I'm going to be in the city, come and witness it for yourself.
	And then, if you're still not so sure, I say this tongue-in-cheek, When the first murder demon shows up, I'm going to tell the men who are holding the person to stand back, let him go, and I'm going to let you come up and go eyeball to eyeball with this thing and tell it that it's just a figment.
	It's just fake.
	It's just phony.
	I'm going to let you handle it.
	I don't think there will be any takers.
	We talked earlier about witchcraft.
	Witches claim, and I know some real witches, Reverend, They claim that most of the time witchcraft can be used in positive ways, and that only on occasion and only with the proper provocation can witchcraft be used to issue... I mean, it can be used for evil purpose, to be sure, but it is not always so used.
	In fact, most frequently not.
	I couldn't disagree with that more.
	Because the Bible disagrees with it.
	I'm sure those people believe that, and mean well, and think that, but the Bible is very clear that all witchcraft is an abomination to God, and that all witchcraft is an opposition to God, because it refuses to acknowledge the Judeo-Christian God of Scripture, who is truly God, and that though they may I feel they're using white magic.
	There really is only good and evil.
	The powers of the earth, the wind, the sun... Well, those may just simply be convenient explanations for human wisdom and knowledge.
	Alright, hold it right there.
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	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
	Brace yourself, it gets worse.
	Bob Larson, Reverend Bob Larson is my guest, and we're talking about exorcism.
	We're doing more than talk about it.
	We're actually playing you clips from exorcisms.
	Which, by the way, takes quite some time to do as a general course.
	In fact, we'll ask about that in a moment.
	Stay right where you are.
	Back now to the Reverend Larson.
	Reverend, frequently, how long do exorcisms vary widely in the amount of time that it takes?
	Yes.
	I've done them as short as 10 or 15 minutes.
	Often it will take several hours, 10 or 15 hours, 10 or 15 days.
	I've had some in which you obviously have to take breaks which have lasted for months.
	Those are rare.
	But most of them require a significant commitment of time.
	And sometimes you have to have more than one exorcism.
	Because the first exorcism only gets to what we call the initial level of devils.
	And that means you just sort of clean out one area of an individual's life, and then they have to rest and recuperate, because it is absolutely physically, mentally, and emotionally devastating to the person who goes through it.
	And then you go back and you do a second or third one.
	Here's an odd question.
	Dave in Davenport, Iowa asks, Art, could you ask Bob a question for me?
	What happens if you love a demon?
	Actually, there are people who do want their demons.
	They do like their demons, because these people are dysfunctional in some area of life, and the demon facilitates some process in them that they are frightened of being without, and so they like to have that thing, because it does do things.
	And to get quite explicit, I don't know what he means by love, but there are people who have sexual relationships with demons, and they love to love a demon.
	That's really odd.
	Alright, here's another one.
	This would be, is it Kevin?
	Or Kevia?
	Or Arlington?
	Does that make sense to you?
	Do you know which one it is?
	Yes, you're talking about the X-er.
	Oh, absolutely.
	If it's the young man I believe we're referring to, he was a cutter.
	A cutter?
	A cutter.
	And I've run into many, many cutters.
	These are people who self-mutilate.
	Oh.
	And they will come to our conferences and their arms will just be slashed.
	Sometimes hundreds of slashes of scar tissue where they have burned, hacked, I have known young people who have done this, and I've seen it myself.
	victims of their whole body and uh...
	very violent young man uh...
	it's the young men i'm thinking of had a uh...
	uh... a history of crime and uh... was facing some other very serious consequences
	of very serious demons
	i have known young people who have done this
	forever and i've seen it myself yes here it is
	Anger?
	Who are you?
	Who are you?
	Wrath?
	Are you Chief?
	Are you Chief?
	Do any of you... Hold your tongue!
	Do any of you have any further legal authority, Wrath?
	Who are you?
	Who are you?
	Yes or no?
	What is it?
	What is it?
	What legal authority do you have?
	Mine.
	Holy smokes.
	Now let me tell you, I got the wrong person.
	Let me tell you who this is.
	This is quite interesting.
	This man is Kevin, I'll give his full name, Kevin Thornton.
	I don't often give full names of people just to protect their anonymity.
	He was a singer with the group Color Me Bad who had the number one hit song a couple years ago called I Wanna Sex You Up.
	He didn't even sound human.
	No, he wasn't.
	I did not know who he was.
	He was in the audience of about 1,600 people.
	Really well-dressed young fellow.
	African-American.
	I went out to him and he exploded.
	Got him up on stage.
	His unearthly voice spoke out of him.
	I did not know who he was until the whole exorcism is over with and he told me That a couple years ago, he had a number one hit record in America.
	Um, one more time, this one I want to hear one more time.
	This is not a human voice.
	Who are you, Angus?
	Who are you?
	Who are you?
	Rat?
	Are you Chief?
	Are you Chief?
	Do any of you, hold your tongue, do any of you have any further legal authority, Ralph?
	Do you?
	Do you?
	Yes or no?
	Yes!
	What is it?
	What is it?
	What legal authority do you have?
	I am mine.
	Legal authority, what does that mean, legal authority?
	What do you mean by that?
	Well, the mercy and the goodness and the love of God protects us from evil.
	Even sometimes when we're stupid enough to put ourselves in the firing line of evil.
	But God is a loving, merciful God.
	However, demons are looking for legal right.
	They're looking for a technicality by which they can enter into somebody.
	So when you cast out a demon, you must find out, does it have a right to be there?
	Sometimes they don't have a right.
	Sometimes they just sort of slip in or sneak in because the person is quite morally vulnerable.
	But sometimes they literally do have a legal right in that the person has done something, or as I said earlier, there has been some curse brought down through the family line that gave them the right.
	You're going to play one in a moment, Mary, in which there was a curse, an ancient curse going back, where some people in the family had sold their souls in the midst of a famine And as a result, it followed the family line.
	So that is a legal right.
	The demon, there was a pact made, and you have to break that pact.
	Matt writes, I get these computer messages as the program goes on, and asks, can a person, interesting question, can a person who is a Christian be possessed by a demon?
	And if so, how can Christ and a demon dwell in the same spot?
	I don't like the term possessed in reference to a Christian.
	Let's just say invaded, influenced, or affected.
	Because as I said in the beginning, these terms are kind of meaningless.
	I mean, they are human terms describing the metaphysical.
	Right.
	And at best, they are inadequate.
	Right.
	Now, how can Christ and the devil be there?
	Yes.
	Well, they're not.
	They're not truly there.
	But as you brought up earlier, I mean, you said, I have known some Christians who were quite unethical.
	I certainly have.
	Absolutely.
	And I have known Christians.
	Who have done horrible things, and yet claim to be a Christian.
	What's going on here?
	Well, we have someone there who probably has a devil in them.
	And when the person is acting out their Christianity, they are a child of faith.
	But in their weak moments, when they give in to that other side, the demon then is able to take over and cause them to do horrible things.
	Now, how does that happen?
	Not in their spirit.
	The Bible teaches what's called the tripartite nature, or the trichotomous nature of man, that he has body, soul, and spirit.
	So that when, by confession of faith, we choose to follow God, the spirit is eternally reborn.
	But in the soul, which is the mind, emotional, sentient nature of who we are, we may have pockets I've got to take the opportunity to ask you.
	I deal with this a lot on my program.
	that is our feelings and tempt us with those feelings so in that sense it is
	not true coexistence with evil it's God is in the spirit the devil is in the
	soul Reverend I've got to take the opportunity to ask you I deal with this
	a lot on my program I believe there really are ghosts what is a ghost
	What is a ghost?
	Is a ghost somebody's actual soul, their consciousness after death remaining on earth?
	Or is it some sort of weird little echo and tape replay of what was?
	I believe that the Bible teaches ghosts are not what in popular culture are disembodied spirits with unfinished business or some soul emanation.
	I believe that in fact ghosts are demons masquerading as the departed.
	Because the Bible teaches that necromancy, communication with the dead, is an occult forbidden sin that causes demon possession.
	And so the devil masquerades as the dead, or the departed, or as a soul.
	So you agree, then, that that communication is possible?
	Oh, absolutely!
	And there are ghosts, and there are phantoms, and ectoplasmic apparitions, but these are demonic beings seeking to cause us to communicate.
	And that's what was so dangerous, for example, with the movie The Success.
	I debated Haley Jo Osment about that on The Larry King Show.
	Once we communicate, then the link is established, and we've crossed over that moral barrier that God established with ancient Israel.
	And from that point on, demons have the right to enter into us, so the ghost, in fact, will enter into you.
	So, by the time you get to the point where you're saying, I see dead people, it's way too late.
	It is way too late.
	At that point, you've already been taken over.
	All right.
	Actually, the next one I've got coming up is Chris in Anchorage.
	Does that ring any bells?
	Yes, it does.
	This guy just suddenly got out of his seat and headed toward me.
	And his was the case of an ancient curse upon the family.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	An ancient curse on the family?
	Oh, very frequently I run into these cases where unbeknownst to the individual, somebody Hundreds of years ago did something.
	Oftentimes there will be an ancient sacrifice.
	I remember one particular case, a woman of Hispanic descent.
	There was an ancient Aztec ancestor who wanted sexual power over women, so he human-sacrificed his own granddaughter.
	This is at least what the spirits said gave them the right, going back 25 generations.
	Well, let's play this and then I'll ask.
	What would you have of me?
	What?
	Judgment.
	Of course.
	Who are you?
	Who else was there?
	BYE BYE!
	I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
	Did you say pornography?
	Yes!
	Guilt!
	Generations.
	Generations.
	Lust is here.
	What do you mean, generations?
	All this family is mine.
	More than one.
	All of them are mine.
	Oh my God.
	That, by the way, took place in front of more than a thousand people.
	And that voice, I mean, I actually... It's got a quality to it at one point that is not... It's... I don't even know how to describe it.
	The quality of the voice changed from what even a human could, in the worst moments, utter.
	I mean, it was almost mechanical.
	It sounded like it was sent through a phaser or something.
	Yeah, that's a true... Is that a true...?
	Absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	In fact, Mr. Fred Johnson, who is my production assistant at our studio in Denver.
	Now, you could hear it go into distortion at one point, and obviously it was simply too loud for the mic, but at another point, something happened to that voice that was all wrong.
	Oh yes, and I actually had people accuse me of doctoring that tape, and as I said, Mr. Fred Johnson is a real human being.
	He is my production assistant.
	He will verify to anybody who wants it verified.
	Nobody touched that tape.
	It was weird.
	I mean, it went into this other earthly thing.
	We actually captured it on video, too.
	We have it on videotape, the same sound.
	Oh, my.
	Professional cameras.
	I mean, this was a major three-camera shoot that we did, and so we have it on videotape and audiotape.
	All right, one more time.
	Listen very, very carefully to the quality of the voice about in the middle of all this.
	Let's listen very carefully.
	What would you have on me?
	What?
	Judgment.
	Okay.
	Of course.
	Who are you?
	Who else is there?
	I got the book.
	Did you say pornography?
	Yes!
	Guilt!
	Guilt!
	Generations.
	Generations.
	Lust is here.
	What do you mean generations?
	All this family is mine.
	More than one.
	All of them are mine.
	That's a pretty confident, really a confident demon.
	Yes, he was, but he was cast out and it was very beautiful.
	When it was over with, this man's wife, who was pregnant, came running up to hug him.
	By the way, it was back to the same city, the same place.
	Recently, this young man came up and gave me a big hug.
	He now is the proud father of a baby.
	His life is just going on wonderfully.
	His father was also there that night, and we had to remove the curse from his father as well, because the demon claimed that it had the whole family lying.
	This young man now is an active member of his church, a wonderful father.
	I shudder to think if this evil had not been expelled, what might have become of him.
	I really honestly feel, Art, that many of these people we encounter are on their way to commit a murder.
	They're on their way to being tomorrow's headline.
	And we are stopping it.
	And I say we, our teams all over the country, and I always want to emphasize to people, Don't look to Bob Larson.
	I'm a human instrument.
	I'm sure Father Malachi Martin told you the same thing.
	I'm a human instrument of God.
	This is God who does this.
	This is God's power.
	It is not my power.
	It is the power of Christ through His resurrection.
	I'm just the human instrument of that.
	And I guess all of this Does it scare you now, or are you past that?
	Are you so sure of what you're doing that you're certain there's nothing you can run into?
	Every week, in every conference, I encounter something I have never seen before.
	It amazes me, because you'd think after all these years I would have seen it all.
	I am astounded.
	Every single week there's some strange, weird twist.
	A demon doing something that I could never have even in my human wildest imagination thought of.
	And it's always new.
	It's always fresh.
	The ingenuity of evil is beyond comprehension.
	But more so is the grace and the love of God.
	And we must remember that.
	Yes, this is scary.
	But the real story is not the frightening evil that's inside these people.
	But the love of God that is there to change their lives and make them into healthy, productive, decent people.
	Could it be that more people in America... I mean, America is a pretty materialistic place.
	Could it be that more people in America have made that perfect deal with the devil than than in the rest of the world, because in America, everybody wants what everybody else has.
	And to get there, if that's what it takes, maybe more people here are making that deal than they are anywhere else.
	Absolutely.
	You're very astute.
	You know, Hollywood doesn't get it right very often, but that Al Pacino movie certainly did get it right.
	And that's the deal that people... They don't make it consciously.
	They don't just say, I sell my soul for whatever, but in their striving... All they've got to do is say it mentally, right?
	Yes, yes.
	In their striving to become whatever it is they want to become, nothing stands in their pathway.
	And when you cross over that line, you become the servant of all that is evil.
	And God no longer exists in your life as a guiding principle.
	Reverend, hold on.
	We'll be right back.
	The devil went down to Georgia.
	He was looking for a soul to steal.
	He was in a bind, cause he was way behind.
	He was willing to make a deal.
	When he came across this young man sewing on a fiddle and playing it hot.
	And the devil jumped up on a hickory stump and said, Boy, let me tell you what.
	I guess you didn't know it, but I'm a fiddle player too.
	And if you'd care to take a dare, I'll make a bet with you.
	Now you play a pretty good fiddle, boy, but give the devil his due.
	I bet a fiddle of gold against your soul, cause I think I better you.
	The boy said, my name's Johnny and it might be a sin, but I'll take your bet you're going to regret because I'm the best there's ever been.
	Johnny you're all set up your ball and play your fiddle.
	🎵 Music 🎵 🎵 Doing alright 🎵
	A little driving on a Saturday night.
	Come walk with me.
	Gonna die today, wait.
	Can't ever see.
	you She always smiled for people she knew.
	Wanna take a ride?
	Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach us at area code 775-727-1222 or call the wildcard line at
	775-727-1295.
	To talk with Art on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	The Reverend Bob Larson is here, and I warned you numerous times, and I'll do it one more time.
	This material is pretty rough stuff, so be advised, if you're coming into the middle of the program, Use parental discretion.
	You have discretion, right?
	You don't want your children around this, and you may not even want yourself around it.
	You figure that out for yourself.
	Once again, the Reverend Bob Larson.
	Now, Bob, somebody asks, Denise, actually, in Illinois, Is there a finite number of demons?
	Are there a finite number of demons?
	And if so, have you ever run into the same demon more than once?
	There is a finite number.
	In the original creation, God made X number of angels, and one-third of those fell with Lucifer in the rebellion.
	We don't know how many that is.
	It's millions.
	It's huge.
	But it is finite, and it is finite as opposed to the omnipresence of God.
	Now, I have run into demons who go by the same name, function, and purpose.
	I've had demons say to me, I know you, I've met you, we've faced each other before.
	Was it literally that same demon?
	Perhaps.
	Perhaps it was just that demon's embodiment of that same evil that I faced before.
	Could one demon inhabit two... Can it be in two places effectively at one time?
	Not two places at one time, but they... Two people?
	They do have the capacity to move at, I don't know, the speed of light?
	Who knows?
	I mean, they're here, they're there, they move fast.
	And a demon does not necessarily need to be in an individual permanently if they have the right to come and go.
	Yes, they may come and go between, for example, a husband and wife.
	A father and son.
	Particularly people with a familial connection go back and forth and affect one and then affect the other.
	You deal with people who are living who have demons.
	How many people would you imagine die with demons?
	A lot of people die as the result of demons.
	They commit suicide because demons have driven them to it.
	Yes.
	In other words, for every one saved, I wonder how many are not.
	Many.
	I wouldn't even suggest that I and all of our Do What Jesus Did teams are coming close to reaching all those people.
	That's why I am so fervent in traveling and holding these conferences every weekend to get more people involved in this.
	You've written how many books?
	29 books.
	The latest is Shock Talk, a novel about exorcism.
	If you were to recommend a starter book, and we've got lots of links on my page to your books, what should people begin with?
	Actually, the latest book, Shock Talk, is an excellent starter, because it's a novel.
	It tells the story of a tabloid TV talk show host.
	That's a girl who's a cut herself mutilator who attempts suicide on his national television show, and then he's forced To find out, out of his own curiosity, what this is all about.
	And it deals with generational curses, the link to multiple personalities, which is another whole issue we haven't gotten into, and also issues of what we call inner healing, by which the soul is restored.
	The other one would be the Book of Spiritual Warfare, which is a 500-page encyclopedic reference on everything about demons and angels and witchcraft and Satanism and the supernatural.
	So, shock talk or the book of spiritual warfare.
	Spiritual warfare.
	You said multiple personalities.
	I thought that was a psychiatric disorder.
	It's more?
	Well, it is a recognizable disorder, generally referred to as DID or dissociative identity disorder.
	But, in fact, more than 50% of the cases of demonization that we deal with also have dissociation.
	And the reason is because the severity of trauma, which causes multiplicity or dissociation, which is also an opening for demons, means that sometimes certain demons hide within certain personalities.
	And so, very frequently, what we have to do is find out if a person is a multiple, and if they're a multiple, then to locate the demon.
	The demon may not be in the core or the host person.
	In other words, in that part of the person's soul consciousness, the demon may not be evident.
	They may be fairly normal.
	You know, Reverend, something I've always wondered about, our mental hospitals across America are full of people.
	And I've always wondered, what percentage really shouldn't be there?
	What percentage of the people in the mental institutions across America are actually possessed?
	It's hard to know, but I That's the way it works.
	A lot of them never get out.
	well i mean it's it's kind of almost amusing to the demon themselves are
	almost insane their function is so overtaken them
	their loony but in their lucidity they will say you know i'm about to
	drive this person crazy i'm a senator to a mental institution that not get
	her in there nobody will ever be able to help her again
	and laugh it is not possible to create that's where it works uh... are a lot of
	them that never get out of you mentioned mary earlier now uh...
	were up to marry.
	Tell me about Mary Flagstaff.
	This took place in Flagstaff, Arizona in a conference.
	Mary was just seated in the audience and suddenly began to hideously scream.
	We brought her to the front, worked with her at length, and this demon eventually spoke German and said that Her ancestors, I'm trying to remember if they were Irish or Italian, I can't remember which, had actually gone to Germany during a time of famine to get food, and sold their souls to someone called Herman the German.
	And Herman the German was into black magic, and in exchange for their souls, gave them food.
	Nice sweet lady, and boy this thing was hideous.
	Sweet lady.
	Alright, here's Mary.
	Go right there, go right there.
	I confront the spirit of hate right there.
	I command that spirit.
	Face me.
	Face me in the name of Jesus.
	Do you love her forever?
	Didn't you?
	Didn't you?
	Yes!
	Yes!
	I had her!
	Is that how you got there?
	Through the hatred door?
	Deception!
	Deception!
	Deception?
	What kind of deception?
	Are you part of a curse?
	Yes!
	Yes!
	Hundreds of years!
	Hundreds of years!
	Hundreds!
	Yeah, came down through the family line through her brother, didn't it?
	Passed on to you, didn't it?
	Did you deceive her?
	Yes!
	Yes!
	How did you deceive her?
	What did you make her believe?
	Nobody would find out.
	Who is chief among you?
	Herman!
	Herman is the man who put the curse on the family.
	Isn't he?
	Yes, yes!
	What nationality?
	GERMAN!
	screen about people speaking uh...
	in in languages there you are uh... my
	uh...
	uh... in every case so far i would have to say you know if if somebody's faking this uh...
	i'd like to even imagine how they could do that These voices do not sound human.
	Well, and keep in mind, you're hearing just a handful of hundreds of examples and a small portion of what may have gone on for an hour.
	And that this has been witnessed hundreds of times in scores of cities all over America in front of thousands and thousands of people.
	It amuses me when people say, oh, these people are paid actors, or he sets these people up, because the infrastructure to organize all of that in all these cities would be monumental and impossible, and after all of this time and the thousands of people, somebody surely would have broken the silence by now and said, oh, this was an actor.
	Oh, absolutely.
	But these are identifiable people, and we've had 60 Minutes, MSNBC, the New York Times, L.A.
	Times, investigate this, talk to many of these people afterwards, go into their homes with television cameras.
	You've got to understand why people do this, why they want to squash this and prove that it's some kind of fraud or fake.
	They want to, obviously, because the alternative is to have to believe that it's true.
	Well, to believe that it's true, Means that then each individual has to deal with the possibility of evil in his own life.
	Precisely.
	And, you know, the person who is hearing these voices talking about lying, cheating, murder, hatred and mayhem, then has to ask himself, is it possible that I have ever harbored those feelings in my own heart?
	And if so, could I have given in to this kind of evil?
	And for some people, Who don't want to believe in God, that's a step they don't want to take.
	In the examples we have here, we have more men than women.
	In fact, I think Mary is the only woman we have now.
	Is there any pattern to possession?
	Are more men possessed than women?
	No, we just happen to have chosen these examples because The demons in men seem to be more verbally dramatic, but it actually is more women than men.
	Women are far more prevalent.
	Because, as I said earlier in the show, abuse issues are so prominent, and so more women are victimized by violation.
	Uh, okay.
	One more time, folks.
	With Mary.
	She's the only example of a woman we have tonight.
	I confront the spirit of hate right there.
	I command that spirit.
	Face me.
	Face me in the name of Jesus.
	You thought you'd have her forever.
	Yeah, didn't you?
	Didn't you?
	Yes!
	Yes!
	I had her!
	Is that how you got there?
	Through the hatred?
	Deception!
	Deception!
	Deception?
	What kind of deception?
	Are you part of a curse?
	Yes!
	Yes!
	Hundreds of years!
	Hundreds of years!
	Hundreds!
	Yeah, came down through the family line through her brother, didn't it?
	Passed on to you, didn't it?
	Did you deceive her?
	Yes!
	Yes!
	How did you deceive her?
	What did you make her believe?
	Nobody would find out.
	Who is chief among you?
	Herman!
	Herman is the man who put the curse on the family, isn't he?
	Yes, yes!
	What nationality are you?
	I'm German!
	I'm But just think about it.
	I mean, which one of us knows who in our past may have done something like that?
	Almost none of us.
	Yeah.
	And so I encourage all people of faith to go through, preferably with a friend, a pastor, a priest, a renunciation of generational curses.
	I've done that for me, my family, and my children.
	And I've prayed a prayer that says, Dear God, I renounce Any and all curses that may have come upon me from past generations, and I renounce those sins of my ancestors that may have caused me to be cursed, and I bequeath to my children and future generations a new heritage of faith in Christ and faith in God, and a cause that any of those curses by which the devil may have access to my life or my family to be broken in the name of God.
	And by doing that, I mean it sounds so simple to say that, But the devil, I tell people, if you're going to deal with the devil, you have to act like a lawyer and think like a judge.
	Because these things operate in a very technical spiritual universe.
	And a curse is a legal document of sorts.
	And so you just declare it null and void, and then it's broken.
	But so many people have never articulated that simple prayer that I said a moment ago.
	And they are vulnerable, so anyone in this audience who has faith in God can say that and break that and be free from it.
	And then they need to come to our conferences and get an exorcist.
	Do you have these sound clips on your website as well?
	Actually, we've never done that.
	We probably should do that.
	In fact, I ought to put them up there tomorrow.
	I would assume, again, these are very short.
	It would be interesting sometime, perhaps in a future appearance, Reverend, if you were to bring a substantial portion of a very serious one to listen to.
	Well, actually, when I say we don't have these clips, we do archive some of our own radio shows on our website, BobLarson.org, and they can download past shows in which I have played longer versions of these.
	And, for example, we just did a show earlier this week that would be in our archives of a woman who was Polish and whose parents were put in Hitler's death camps.
	And a spirit of death then followed that family, and then when they were released from the camps and immigrated to South America, to Caracas, Venezuela, She then was molested as a child and these spirits then took control of her.
	All right.
	We've got, I think, a very short one we can do.
	This is Tony in Minneapolis.
	What's the story on Tony?
	Very, very interesting.
	You know, a lot of times people think that, oh, if I'm going to get a demon, I have to do something really bad.
	Sometimes it's a fairly small opening if there's a pre-existing vulnerability.
	Tony's father, as we... First of all, he just erupted in the audience and I had no idea what the story was, but I learned later that his father had wanted to murder his mother, his father's mother.
	Had wanted to murder other family members and had thought about it and planned it.
	Well, this young man was working in a kitchen in a restaurant and Someone accidentally spills some frying grease on him, and he sustains some serious burns to his body.
	Well, while he was in this state of physical torment with this grease burning his body, his employer and fellow employees were reluctant to call 9-1-1 an emergency because they were afraid they were going to get a lawsuit.
	And he was laying there screaming in agony, as he described it, with his grease burning his flesh.
	And at that moment he said to himself, if I survive this, I will get even and I will kill these people who didn't offer me help.
	And that very thought of murder that he entertained in his mind opened him up.
	Here it is.
	Get up, Spider-Pirate.
	Didn't you sneak right in there, didn't you?
	When nobody was looking.
	You sneaked in, didn't you?
	Then you murder!
	Then you're wrong.
	Yeah.
	Well, it wasn't fair, was it?
	You guys don't play fair, do you?
	You don't have to.
	You don't have to, do you?
	Murder.
	You know, Reverend, I interviewed a pretty interesting person the other day.
	His name is Kent Walker.
	And he is the, he's called the other brother of the Sante and Kenny Kimes incident.
	You know about that?
	No.
	The murder conviction.
	You don't.
	It's a big case.
	It's a big murder case.
	But Sante was probably as close to evil as you can imagine.
	She was a mother who brought her two sons up in a life of crime, grifting And ultimately, in the case of one murder, and they've been convicted of that murder now, of a socialite.
	Is this the mother?
	Oh, yes, the mother of the son who killed the socialite.
	Ding, ding, ding, right?
	Yes, right.
	All of a sudden, okay, yes, I interviewed the brother, and he told me his mother, Sante, was, in his eyes, if you've ever looked into the eyes of Charles Manson, there's really no question about what you see.
	You see evil, and he said, That was in my mother's eyes as well, and still is, and in his opinion always will be.
	Well, he was looking at a demon.
	He wasn't just looking at his mother.
	He was looking into the soul of his mother, and he saw the demon in her soul.
	I wouldn't doubt that for a moment.
	That's what I see when I look at people.
	People say, how do you know, Bob?
	Because I will walk out into an audience of four or five hundred, maybe a thousand or two thousand people, and then I walk through the audience and I pick out the people.
	That I've never seen before in my life.
	And you know.
	And I just know.
	You just know.
	Hold on.
	I just look, I see in their soul the evil and it looks back at me.
	Hold on right there, Reverend.
	We'll be right back.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	Falling in love was the last thing I had on my mind.
	Holding you is a warmth that I thought I could never find Just trying to decide
	I'll stay by your side I know I could cry
	I just can't find the answers to the questions that keep going through my mind
	Hey babe!
	I'm here Listen to the wind blow
	Watch the sun rise Wanna take a ride?
	Well, call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033. First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222. The
	wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295. And to reach out on the toll free international
	line call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-727-1222.
	Good morning.
	Reverend Bob Larson is my guest, and we're about to go to the phones.
	A little more business to do, and we'll go to the phones.
	Stay right where you are.
	Reverend, David in Los Angeles asks whether, as in the movie The Exorcist, can the possessed at times ever actually physically manifest anything like levitation, moving objects, that sort of thing?
	It's rare.
	I have seen it happen.
	It's not common.
	Satan seems to be somewhat limited in that realm.
	The movie was a little bit of an exaggeration, but it was a composite of a number of things.
	I have seen it, but it's rare.
	I understand, actually, that that exorcism was, in other words, it was based, though, on one real story that I think occurred in Missouri, perhaps?
	Yes, that's true.
	All right, we have one more that I would like to get to that occurred, apparently, in Anchorage with Brent.
	Well, excuse me, I mentioned this a little earlier.
	This was the young man dressed in a suit and tie, church usher, Bible school student who had no idea, neither did anybody in the church have any idea that there could have been anything like this in him.
	And he was just seated comfortably in the aisle of the church, and I felt this strong spiritual impression to go to him, to pray for him.
	And I thought, well, he's a very unlikely person.
	And I usually carry with me when I pray anointing oil.
	And anointing oil represents the presence of the Holy Spirit.
	And I often, when I approach people, I will make the sign of the cross in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit on their head.
	I reached over to do that.
	He exploded, flew out of the pew.
	This is a heavily edited excerpt.
	The F word was just pouring out of his mouth, and in this sedate Baptist church, the place was in a state of shock.
	So in other words, what you're about to hear, you've got to imagine the rest.
	It's a sanitized version.
	All right, here we go.
	You didn't think I'd find you, did you?
	No.
	25 generations?
	Yes.
	Well, you've been there a long time.
	You must not want to give up this body, huh?
	No.
	But he's a child of God.
	You don't have legal right anymore, do you?
	Do you?
	No.
	Now blasphemy, I put an angel on your left, on your right, Behind you and in front of you.
	Stronger than your angels.
	That's a lie!
	That's a lie!
	Blasphemy.
	What is the key to this curse?
	Tell me!
	He was dedicated to Satan for future generations.
	25 generations ago?
	Yes.
	The bloodline was dedicated to the devil?
	Good lord.
	Twenty-five generations ago.
	He didn't know it.
	His family didn't know it.
	Studying for the ministry, this evil was down inside him.
	And it was violent.
	Very violent.
	That's incredible.
	Alright, let's take a few calls here through the top of the hour and see what we get.
	Who knows?
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Reverend Larson.
	Hello.
	All right, thanks a lot, Art.
	Good morning, Mr. Larson.
	My name's Jeremy.
	I'm calling from CFUN Radio in Vancouver.
	And Mr. Larson, you stated earlier in the show, I guess last hour, you were talking about the witchcraft and how the earth and sun and water and fire was just maybe a convenient way to explain that magic and their powers.
	But what do you think about maybe Christianity being a simple way to explain Your powers, right?
	Like, a convenient way to describe what you do.
	Fair question, I suppose, yes.
	Yeah, I'm sure that an individual could suggest that.
	I happen to believe that Christianity is a God-revealed religion through the Old Testament onward, and that it is the true faith of the only living and true God.
	I respect the right that other people may disagree with that, but that's what I believe.
	Alright, Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Reverend Larson.
	Hello.
	I know something about this generational stuff.
	Edgar Cayce is one of my distant, distant relatives.
	My family has had spiritism and everything in this line forever.
	By the time I was in 6th grade, I was regularly praying to be possessed by spirits and manifesting, developing my ESP and all kinds of things.
	Unfortunately, God saved me from this life of utter darkness when I was 15.
	And I've been getting together with the gal that you just recently delivered in Anchorage here at the Baptist Temple for a discipleship and prayer.
	You did two deliverance services with her, a little blonde gal you probably remember, Lisa.
	Yes, I do remember Lisa.
	Yeah, and she's doing pretty well.
	She's had some trouble spots.
	Were you there that night, this young man Brent?
	No, I was not there at any of the services, but I've been doing some counseling and follow-up ministry with her since that time.
	Anyway, I just thought you would be interested to hear that she's doing pretty well, and I'm just trying to focus her on prayer of quiet and healing and focusing on the love of Jesus and her Heavenly Father, because she was abused and all that.
	But I have a concern, and that is that with my background in spiritism and witchcraft and all this kind of stuff, I listen to art regularly, and art I love, yes, and I pray for your audience for protection over them and over you, particularly because this is, if you listen at a regular rate, Bob, you would know that this audience is very open to all kinds of Of different occultic influences in their lives, and my burden for you is I really believe that there is a loving and well-intentioned witchcraft influence in your life at your right hand.
	You know there is.
	And you're in danger.
	And this is a man who can give you some counsel in this area.
	I pray for you regularly.
	Alright, well you're right about that.
	I'm certainly open to everything.
	And I suppose a lot of people would consider that to be very foolish and very dangerous to be open to nearly everything.
	But that's the edge that I live on, I suppose.
	All right.
	Onward, eastward.
	Eastward, actually.
	East of the Rockies.
	You're on the air with Reverend Larson.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Yes, you're on the air, sir.
	Hi there.
	Yeah.
	I was at the conference in the Detroit area on Friday night.
	Really?
	Yeah, and I sat right in the front row and I witnessed firsthand the exorcism of a woman named Lashondra.
	And when this demon began to manifest in her, to look at her, it's like Bob was saying, when you look in a person's eyes you can see the evil.
	It was quite terrifying.
	I mean clearly and obviously what we played tonight it was terrifying and you could hear it and you're telling me that when you were actually physically there the visual was as terrifying as what we're hearing.
	Yes and he worked with her for I'm guessing around an hour or so on and off but at the very end when that thing was finally he drove the power of that evil right out of her And at the very end, when that thing came out, she was spitting and coughing and throwing up, bent over forwards.
	But after that thing came out, she had the most beautiful smile and you could just see the joy and the peace in her heart.
	I'll tell you, I have witnessed similar before.
	But I know this is real because of my own personal experience with God also.
	I met God personally nine years ago, roughly nine years ago, through a little tiny prayer group in the Detroit area.
	Several Christians praying together, worshiping God.
	And the Spirit of God came upon me and gave me a revelation.
	That Jesus is the Son of God, that He died for me and that He rose from the dead.
	I have not doubted that from that day to this day.
	And I know for a fact that He is the only way.
	He Himself said, I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life.
	He said nobody comes to the Father but through Him.
	Well, you know, that's very interesting, except I'm still puzzled By the fact that we apparently have more evil present, more entities waiting to take over whatever they can get in America, than we do in all of these non-Christian nations almost put together.
	If you think about it, Art, why wouldn't America be the target?
	Because America is the most gracious, philanthropic, compassionate nation on Earth, in spite of all its evil.
	Why wouldn't the devil target America that has the greatest capacity to alleviate the suffering of humanity around the globe?
	Yes, but he spoke of the only way, and the only way, he said, and I've heard that said by so many Christians.
	Fine, the only way.
	Well, all of these other nations that don't take that path at all, and they don't seem bothered.
	I just, it doesn't, somehow it doesn't make sense.
	Well, it makes sense if you think about the devil's using his resources most wisely to attack where the greatest threat is.
	And America, in spite of its problems, is a great threat to the devil.
	Because, as I said, if you think about all the philanthropic work, all the relief that has gone on around the world for starving humanity and so on, America is the leader in that.
	After you've done A long exorcism.
	How does that leave you at the end?
	Are you drained?
	Is this work as hard and draining as it sounds and spiritually draining?
	Absolutely.
	Spiritually, mentally, emotionally and physically.
	When I'm done, I'm just a dishrag.
	I'm limp.
	I mean, I'm surprised they don't carry me out sometimes.
	It takes every ounce of energy.
	I mean, you're the natural dealing with the supernatural.
	A real mind game is going on as you battle these things.
	As you're looking for these intricate clues, putting the pieces of the puzzle together to see this person free.
	Absolutely.
	Physically.
	I'm sure Father Malachi Martin must have told you the same thing.
	When you're done, that's it.
	You're no good for anything after that for a while until you refresh.
	And Reverend, on this program, as the lady pointed out a little while ago, I deal with an awful lot of strange stuff.
	And one of the strange things that I deal with on this program is the presence of alien life.
	Yes.
	And I take it that your position would generally be that what's regarded by many as aliens really are not aliens at all.
	Yes.
	They are demons.
	Now, I do believe that, by the way, that you just cannot discount All of the so-called extraterrestrial phenomena.
	In fact, I wrote a book.
	It's currently out of print.
	We have a few copies left called UFOs and the Alien Agenda.
	Really?
	Yes.
	A very long, detailed book about all of this, in which I posited the theme that through the unpredictability and the periodicity with which these phenomena occur, there is a kind of consciousness raising, taking place in our culture, bringing people to the awareness where They anticipate something dramatic about to happen.
	We're kind of like being set up by these beings.
	But that they don't come from outer space, they come from, in fact, what Jacques Vallée has talked about, them coming from a parallel dimension.
	I believe that parallel dimension is a spirit dimension, and these demons break through that barrier from time to time, but they're just toying with us.
	And that these extraterrestrial phenomena are these beings Uh, sort of manipulating the mass consciousness to prepare people for the Antichrist.
	Look at the descriptions of many of these people.
	I know you've seen some of these pictures.
	I have, yes.
	They look very much akin to what people describe to me as demons, almost identical.
	Actually, they do.
	Yeah, that's quite right.
	They do.
	People in the spirit world describing demons describe the same sort of creatures, very often, that are described by people who claim to have had UFO abductions.
	I have behind me, sent to me by Rush Limbaugh, a gigantic, oh, it's got to be five foot, five feet tall, a depiction of a, carved from hardwood, it's the most amazing thing you've ever seen, depiction of a gray alien.
	And actually, when you look at the, you know what a typical gray is.
	Yes, I know what a gray is.
	Okay, well, yeah, they, to us, to my mind as I look at it, There's almost a demon there.
	I think you need me to come to the prompt and do an exorcism on your studio.
	Oh, this studio's been through a lot, believe me.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Reverend Bob Larson.
	Hi.
	Hi, how you doing?
	Okay, sir.
	Yeah, this is Joe from Albuquerque.
	Yes, sir.
	I have two questions for your guest.
	One is, I've had these what they call paralysis dreams.
	Sometimes they're known as Hypnoglossinous sleep, and there's always a feeling of like a benevolent being there, and this is a common thread with people who have had these dreams.
	And they usually precede out-of-body experiences, actually, if you're talking about the paralysis.
	Right.
	It seems like your soul clicks out, but it doesn't click out all the way.
	Yes, yes.
	I'm wondering what your guest has to say about that.
	Well, I'll just bet his take is a lot different than Albert Taylor's.
	Bob?
	I do believe that many of these, though some are psychological, are demotically precipitated.
	In fact, I deal with sleep paralysis phenomena quite often with women who are attacked by incubi spirits.
	And very often in that state where they feel frozen to the bed, they will be sexually assaulted.
	Because I dare to talk about this publicly, these women come out of the woodwork just describing these horrific experiences, but they've been terrified to ever discuss it with anyone until then before fear somebody would think they're crazy.
	I have talked to a lot of women who have been attacked, Reverend.
	It's not uncommon at all, is it?
	No, no, no.
	It's a very common thing, but they're so ashamed to speak of it for fear that somebody will think that they're nuts.
	But if you think about it, in that sort of dreamlike Intermittent state between the state of dream consciousness and awake consciousness, there is a kind of spiritual vulnerability where all sorts of strange things can occur out of the body experiences, very spontaneous spiritual phenomena, including the attack of spirit beings which may seek physical cohabitation.
	You sent me a copy of the New York Times.
	Indeed, New York Times, Tuesday, November 28, 2000.
	Headline, exorcists and exorcisms proliferate across the United States, across the U.S.
	Well, the Roman Catholic Church, for example, just cannot cope with the incredible caseload that they're getting.
	And, of course, they have this rigorous structure by which they permit exorcism.
	Quietly, though, On the side, what the church doesn't talk about is that there is a growing lay movement of hundreds of practitioners around the country who, though not officially sanctioned by the church, do have somewhat the blessing of the church to assist with this great demand.
	And there have been conferences of Catholic lay people, which hundreds have gathered together to speak about their experiences.
	This summer, in Colorado, we're going to be having a conference in which we're going to be bringing together scores, hundreds of people from around the country to tell about their Common experiences of them doing exorcism.
	What is your near-term schedule?
	My which?
	Near-term schedule.
	In other words, where are you going to be shortly?
	Where am I going to be immediately?
	Well, as I said, I'm going to be in Vancouver, British Columbia this weekend on Friday and Saturday.
	And then I'll take a week off for Memorial Day.
	After that, on the 1st and the 2nd, I'm going to be in Las Vegas, Nevada.
	I'll take a week off for my wife to have a baby.
	And then I'm going to be in Dallas, Montreal, Midland, Texas.
	The second week of July, a huge California tour, four cities in Southern California.
	Did you see a movie called The Devil's Advocate?
	Yes, I did.
	Remember the very end of that movie?
	I'll never forget it.
	When they thought all was clear and all was done and he was walking down the steps and the devil said something like, vanity, ah, vanity, my favorite.
	What an incredible end that was.
	Well, it has been, you know, I should like to say a pleasure to have you on.
	You've been incredible to have on the air.
	And I would like to have you back again.
	And I would like to also ask that the next time you come, can you bring longer segments?
	I can bring longer segments that will truly raise the hair on your neck.
	Absolutely.
	I want to tell you what a thrill it has been with you.
	I've admired your work for years, Art.
	You and I don't agree on everything, but I respect the fact that you do a great show of giving people a forum to clearly speak what they believe, and I deeply respect that.
	My prayers are with you.
	Well, I try and allow all sides to have a voice, is what I do.
	That's not often the case in the media today, which is so tightly controlled, as you know, so I commend you for that.
	It is tightly controlled.
	Not here, though.
	Reverend, thank you.
	Thank you so much.
	Good night.
	Good night.
	That, folks, is the Reverend Bob Larson.
	I'm Art Bell.
	One hour of open lines directly ahead.
	stay right where you are I see you Lord, mmm my Lord, mmm my Lord
	I really wanna see you, really wanna be with you Really wanna see you Lord, but it takes so long my Lord
	My sweet Lord .
	you you
	Where are those happy days?
	They seem so hard to find.
	I tried to reach for you, but you have lost your mind.
	Whatever happened to our love?
	I wish I understood.
	I wish I understood It used to be so nice
	It used to be so good So when you leave me darling
	Can't you hear me SOS The love you gave me
	Nothing else can save me SOS When you're gone, how can I even try to go on
	When you're gone, though I try, how can I carry on Wanna take a ride?
	Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	1-800-618-8255, east of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
	The wildcard line is open at 1-777-8255.
	And to call out on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
	Good morning from the high desert.
	Well, how do you feel?
	Huh?
	Last night, we had Matthew Albert.
	This night, we had Reverend Bob Larson.
	You think that was an error in scheduling?
	Uh-huh.
	I planned it that way.
	Your head should be twirling like Linda's.
	And that was the whole idea.
	From here, where do we go?
	Well, tomorrow night, for example, Paul Smith and Russell Tardt will be here.
	Both of them in the original remote viewing program.
	So we'll shift gears again tomorrow night.
	this hour open lines coming up you know I am somebody asked me am I humored
	Uh, I am humored, actually, by an aspect of last night and tonight.
	I'll tell you what it is.
	Last night, Matthew Alper made an incredible case, I thought, intellectually, a wonderful case for his argument, believe it or not, about the God part of the brain.
	And after that show... Oh, the screaming!
	He's a fraud!
	Fraud!
	I got it in email.
	You know, I got a lot of that.
	And so, I switched gears 180 degrees tonight.
	And put on Bob Larson.
	And, same thing, equal numbers.
	He's a fraud!
	Different group, same accusation.
	Kind of interesting.
	The one thing I do want to bring up before we go into open lines is, that is humorous, is this story from Havana from Reuters.
	so that you know if you want to go look up the story yourself you're welcome to it's astounding absolutely astounding about what they have found they believe they have found near cuba underwater about two thousand two hundred feet underwater nearly a half mile underwater let me read you from part of the article uh... lost city off western cuba most intriguingly researchers using sonar equipment Have discovered at a depth of about 2,200 feet, a huge land plateau with clear images, repeat, clear images of what appears to be urban development, partly covered by sand.
	From above, the shapes resemble pyramids, roads, and buildings.
	ADC is excited but reluctant to speculate until a joint investigation with the Cuban Academy of Sciences and the U.S.
	National Geographic Society takes place early this summer.
	It is stunning!
	What we see in our high-resolution sonar images are limitless rolling white sand plains, and in the middle of this beautiful white sand, there are clear, man-made, large-size architectural designs.
	It looks like when you fly over an urban development in a plane and you see highways, tunnels, and buildings.
	We don't know yet what it is, and we don't have the videotaped evidence of this yet, but we do not believe that nature is capable of producing planned, symmetrical architecture unless it's a miracle.
	ADC's Deepwater Equipment includes Satellite Integrated Ocean Bottom Positioning System, High Precision Side Scan Double Frequency Sonar, and Remotely Operated Submarine Robots.
	They plan to add two submarines to take people down.
	Now, if you want to look it up, the actual title of the article is, Explorers Comb Cuban Seas for Treasure, a Comma Mysteries.
	Reuters.
	In fact, Keith, if you're able to find that, have at it.
	Again, it's Reuters, Havana, May 15th.
	So it's a brand new story on Reuters.
	And it's entitled, Explorers Comb Cuban Seas for Treasure, Mysteries.
	Absolutely astounding.
	Now, what do you suppose, what does that sound like to you?
	When they're saying they found a city They've found architectural designed buildings.
	They've found roads.
	They've found a civilization almost a half mile under the sea.
	What do you think they've found?
	All right.
	Open lines.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hi.
	All right.
	I have three comments.
	All religions, white rich crap and aliens, about what the Reverend said.
	First of all, I feel that all religions have something in them, and that God really cannot be contained in one religion because he's so great.
	And nobody can really know what comes to God's mind, but I have an idea.
	Well, yeah, but the problem with all that is that you might say that, but the religions don't say that.
	They all say, We are the only path.
	The only path.
	And if you do anything else, you're going straight, well, you know where.
	Yeah, I know what they say, but my own personal belief is that God is like testing us to see how we take care of each other and how we respect each other.
	Well, a lot of the religions would say, fine, you say that and you're going straight to hell because you haven't found the path.
	And if you don't find the right path, our path, then you're doomed.
	Well, I don't know what God... I think it's the greatest hubris in the world to say, I know what God thinks.
	God changes His mind, perhaps.
	I mean, I don't know.
	I can only guess.
	But this is my opinion, and I think that, you know, God is gentle and loving, and He loves everybody.
	I think the truest words said were when Christ said, uh, forgive them, God, forgive them, for they know not what they do.
	Right.
	And I really believe that God loves everybody if God is loved.
	Well, I don't know about that.
	I don't know about that.
	I don't know how... It depends on how you feel about evil.
	Do you think that Mansory Will is Mansory Will, or do you think that people like Manson, Santee, people like that are possessed?
	If they are possessed, then maybe God loves the possessed as well.
	You would certainly have to imagine that.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Oh, hi, Art.
	Hello.
	How's it going?
	This is John of Northern Idaho.
	Yes, sir.
	KSPT-1400 on the AM side.
	Thank you.
	Interesting show tonight.
	Mm-hmm.
	Has he been on before with you?
	I don't think I've ever... Never, never, never, never.
	No, no, very good.
	Although, I think he made a couple of mistakes on his origin for demons.
	Oh, really?
	Where do you think they're from?
	Well, he...
	He drew on Revelation 12 as Satan being cast down to Earth.
	He said that's when they came to Earth.
	Well, they've been here a long time.
	Okay, well, I'll tell you what.
	He's gone now, so I'm not qualified to argue this with you or even really have a discussion with you.
	Oh, okay.
	I'm just not.
	And he's gone, so if he were here, I'm sure that he would take issue with you.
	Well, let's talk about the virus then.
	Yeah.
	We could use a good CNA, huh?
	A good what?
	Yeah, a coronal discharge to kill off all the viruses.
	But the trouble with a good coronal discharge of the magnitude you're talking about is, it would erase everything, big and small.
	In fact, I'm told that the proper size could actually sterilize a planet.
	Sterilize.
	Nothing left.
	No crawling things.
	No little bugs.
	No cockroaches.
	Nothing.
	Well, that sounds like one sure way of fixing things around here.
	Just like reaching over and hitting the reset button on your computer.
	That'll work too, eh?
	Yeah, that's it.
	It would reset it right to the very beginning.
	To when there was nothing.
	A void.
	In terms of life.
	A complete void.
	Oh, maybe the planet, barren, stripped, would continue to revolve, but, uh, you'd hit that button and you'd virtually be like wiping the slate clean.
	A while ago, whoops, would have been, uh, first time caller on the line, you're on the air, hello.
	Yes, uh, my name's Nick, uh.
	Yes, Nick.
	I'd like to know if you're ever, uh, thinking of having the Bigfoot researcher, Robert W. Morgan.
	Oh, I've had, I've had Robert on, uh, a number of times.
	And I will absolutely have Mon again.
	Oh, that'd be great.
	That's it?
	Yeah, that's all I wanted to know, because he hasn't been on for a while, and I'm just wondering if you're ever going to have Mon again.
	Sure.
	I'd love to listen to him.
	Sure.
	As a matter of fact, I'd like to know what he has to say about what's going on in Delhi right now.
	Delhi.
	They've got some kind of apparent, apparent monster, what they're calling a monkey man, And, at this point, the damage from this creature, whatever it is, is becoming so extensive that it's becoming difficult to believe that it might be, as some suspect there, a man in some kind of monkey suit.
	I mean, he has been attacking relentlessly, and breaking bones, and seriously injuring people, and I suppose killing people.
	So, this is very serious, whatever it is.
	Maybe it's a man, but it doesn't sound like it.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	I'm listening to you from KENI in Anchorage, Alaska.
	Anchorage, Alaska.
	Yes.
	I didn't realize that you were off the air for a while.
	I know Chuck Carter went off for a while, but I do have, for the people, newsletters from him occasionally.
	Yes, I was off for a while.
	About ten months, actually, so you must be an infrequent visitor.
	I listened a few years back and then Chuck Carter went off and I guess I stopped listening for a while.
	You were Chuck-less.
	Yeah, I really enjoy your show, too.
	It's quite entertaining.
	I actually interviewed Chuck a number of years ago.
	You did?
	Mm-hmm.
	Oh, I missed it.
	You didn't know that, huh?
	No.
	But since I've been listening, you said your wife is doing some remote viewing?
	No.
	He was not going to try that.
	Oh, I know what you're talking about.
	Ed Dames has a new package out, a very simple package, that has a lot of sealed envelopes in it, so that you can give it a try.
	And yes, she is going to try that, yes.
	Oh, okay.
	I was just wondering how her progress was.
	Nothing to report yet.
	She hasn't done it yet.
	We have so many things on our table, and when she does, I certainly will let you know how she does.
	It's kind of a unique idea when you really think about it.
	What he's offering will test the average person's natural remote viewing or psychic ability, depending on how you want to look at it.
	A very unique package.
	All sealed envelopes, and so you get an opportunity to try and draw pictures of what is in that envelope.
	And that's how remote viewing actually works.
	It's the beginning or the basis of remote viewing, and a lot of people are going to get a lot of surprises, I suspect.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello, is it Art?
	Yep.
	Hi, this is Kevin in Sedona.
	Hi, Kevin.
	Sedona.
	I'm sorry I missed Bob.
	I had a question for him.
	I was just... I'm sorry you missed him too, but he is now gone, so I can't answer it.
	I caught the program, he may have already mentioned it.
	Did he mention anything?
	He talks about the demons being removed from people, but did he mention that they can be destroyed at all?
	No, what he did say was that when a demon is removed, I asked, where does it go?
	And he said, back to where it came from.
	In other words, back to hell.
	Yeah, I heard that part.
	It kind of sounds like sending an enemy soldier back to his home camp so he can be fixed up to send out again.
	Yeah, that's a good point.
	It is a good point.
	And he did say that they can then inhabit, if they find a likely subject, they can inhabit a human body again.
	It can happen again.
	It's not like they're sent away forever.
	Yeah.
	I also had another question.
	I've thought about, and it kind of relates to a lot of different things going on, including all the alien sightings, the Earth changes, the demons and all of the, what seems to be craziness coming out in our world.
	Nobody's ever addressed our galactic position.
	Well, our galactic position is rather remote.
	If you look at where the Earth and our Sun is, compared to the rest of everything, we're kind of in the suburbs here.
	Yeah, I know, but we're rotating in the galaxy.
	Constantly, yes.
	And we have recently come into a new region of space that some say is more energetic than where we have been.
	So I've heard, yes.
	And just wondering what that change in conditioning on us has to do with all these changes taking place and coinciding with all the calendars coming to... Like the Mayan calendar coming to close?
	Yeah.
	I don't know.
	I only know that I observe that we are in the middle of a momentous change that's rapidly headed toward something.
	And it seems like all people on all sides, whether it's a Reverend Larson or a Matthew Alper, or somebody who says they're channeling somebody, or various remote viewers who run up against what they call brick walls, all of these people are basically saying the same thing.
	So while you might dismiss any one of them, Collectively, I'm not so sure you can.
	Now, what's going to happen?
	I don't know.
	I've often wondered, though, is it all part of a long-term evolutionary cycle of our development on this planet as we move through these various stages of our galaxy?
	Look what they're finding half a mile below the ocean, near Cuba.
	It's amazing.
	Now, think about it for a moment.
	Maybe that means That there was another civilization on this earth at one time, and we're just now discovering the remnants of it.
	People have frequently said, oh, that couldn't be!
	If there was another civilization, you know, where are the roads?
	Where are the buildings?
	Guess what?
	Maybe we just found some!
	It may be that humans, or that, excuse me, life comes and goes.
	And to be that deep, it must have been there quite a while ago because the oceans 12,000 years ago were 100 feet lower.
	So if it's that deep down it could have been there tens of thousands of years ago.
	That's actually very deep.
	That's the whole myth, so-called, story of Atlantis.
	Yeah, exactly.
	That's right.
	And that is where many have speculated Atlantis might be.
	That's an astounding story.
	That's why I said, Keith, if you're able to find it, the Reuters story, I sure would like to get it up on the website so people can read the entire story.
	It's a lot longer than what I've read.
	Of course, U.S.
	companies are embargoed and not allowed to participate in any investigation because of our lack of relationship with Cuba, Castro's Cuba.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Good morning, Mark.
	Good morning.
	That was a great show tonight.
	You know, in the Bible, it says there was a race on Earth before man.
	And I'm just wondering with that city.
	I mean, you know, you never know.
	I've got a An idea for a guest that I think will put chills down your back.
	This guy just won the Associated Press Broadcast Award for investigative journalism.
	The story went on to win the Edgar Murrow Award, which I guess is a pretty big deal.
	A few years ago... Who is he?
	His name is John Stevens.
	John Stevens.
	And what does John Stevens do?
	Investigative producer slash reporter.
	He used to be a detective, and years ago in Oregon, he stumbled onto, I guess you'd call it a plot, there was an agency that was basically taking young women, and they were receiving money from the state and so on, and they were teaching them that there was going to be a war between good and evil, and that they should choose the dark side.
	This made it to television, I'm not kidding, and put chills down your back.
	Last Halloween, he was the only reporter that was invited.
	I'll tell you what, I don't have a lot of time here, so send me information, email it to me, artbell at mindspring.com, about how I can get hold of him, and I will proceed to try and do so.
	so i'd just said a little moment of the people who are making
	uh...
	a movie columbia pictures is making a movie and all i'll tell you what i
	inscribed on picture in a moment
	uh...
	of what I am.
	Bye.
	It's all clear to me now My heart is on fire
	Don't you love her badly?
	Don't you need her badly?
	Don't you love her ways?
	Tell me what you say Don't you love her, mad lady?
	Wanna meet her daddy?
	Don't you love her face?
	Don't you love her as she's walking out the door?
	Like she did one thousand times before?
	Don't you love her ways?
	Wanna take a ride?
	Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	Want to take a ride?
	Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at area code 775-727-1222.
	Or call the wildcard line at 775-727-1295.
	To talk with Art on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	Morning, everybody.
	How you holding up, huh?
	Try and imagine in the depths of the ocean, almost a half a mile below Cuba.
	Yeah!
	There's a city.
	Now, what do you think that might be, huh?
	We'll be right back.
	One more segment.
	All right.
	For those of you who would like to see it and read the entire article, let me give you a reference, all right?
	If you will be so kind as to go to my website, artbell.com, not real hard, artbell.com.
	W-W-W.
	Artbell, A-R-T-B-E-L-L dot com.
	And on the left hand side you will see a section that says Library.
	Place your cursor above Library and go to News and Web Links.
	And the very first thing you'll run into over there is Explorers Comb Cuban Seas for Treasure, Mysteries.
	My webmaster, up at the same hours that I'm up, has found the article.
	As a matter of fact, there's a Reuters photo that goes with the article.
	And you can read all about the lost city off Western Cuba.
	Question mark.
	So be my guest.
	That's how you get to it.
	I wanted to back it up by allowing you to read the entire article if you wanted to.
	I know it sounds fantastic.
	But it's a legit news article by Reuters, and there it is for you to read.
	Be my guest.
	Library, and then to the links.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yeah, this is the Shadow from Sacramento Art.
	The Shadow from Sacramento?
	Yes, I called you last week.
	I called you last week.
	I called you last week You're getting a little long in the tooth, aren't you?
	What's that?
	You're getting a little long in the tooth.
	Yeah, I just started missing one in the front, actually.
	Oh.
	Anyway, I agree with Bob Larson.
	In fact, I wanted to call you up and say the same thing to Bob Larson.
	I believe exactly, you know, that a lot of this stuff about the UFOs and stuff.
	Yes.
	He said, or demons.
	Demons.
	Exactly.
	In fact, I have to actually tell you.
	One of the worst things you could do if you ever saw... The only problem with that theory is, and just listen very carefully, that if, and I said this to someone the other night, if these are demons, then one should be able to observe the usual, well, I don't know, triangle, saucer, little green guys, little gray guys.
	Little guys of all sorts, from all sorts of places, and simply say, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, BE GONE!
	And they should be gone, as Bob Larson is able to cast out demons.
	But it just doesn't seem to work that way.
	Does it?
	Now, if you can't cast them away in the same manner, then why can we not imagine That there are both.
	That there are demons of the type Reverend Larson deals with, and there are other exorcists.
	And that there are also visitors from elsewhere.
	They would not so easily be cast away, would they?
	They might not even know whose name you're using.
	Buster the Rockies, you're on the air.
	No, now you're on the air.
	Hi, this is Chris from Sacramento.
	Hello, Chris.
	I was just having a question.
	You were talking about demons.
	Actually, well, not you, but your guest was talking about demons.
	That's true.
	And having people's bodies.
	Yep.
	And I was wondering if angels could do the same.
	I think the answer was given during the program.
	Angels would be representatives of the good guy, right?
	Well, in my terms, yes.
	Yeah, in your terms, or in most people's terms.
	And what Reverend Larson said was that a God who created us would be unlikely to, and gave us free will as well, would be unlikely, himself or his representatives, to take that away from us and possess us.
	Well, that wouldn't make much sense, would it?
	No, but advice is more than mine, as I was questioning.
	Like, somewhat intervention from above.
	Well, intervention and possession are very different animals.
	And there are plenty of stories of angelic intervention that have been told by many.
	By the way, next week, I think next week, what is today anyway?
	Today would be the 16th.
	Yeah, next week.
	We're going to have a man who is going to give... You remember Sarah's description and her NDE, right?
	This NDE is going to make Sarah sound like a picnic.
	And that was pretty rough stuff, or at least that's what I'm told.
	Dr. Jeff Long, the same man who brought us Sarah, Brett has decided to bring us a man who's going to tell us about a trip that he made to hell.
	Next week.
	First time caller on the line.
	You're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	This is Brett from Seattle.
	Hi, Brett.
	I've been listening to your show for, geez, five, six years now.
	Long time, huh?
	Yeah, long time, you know?
	And I was just really, really surprised that you had Bob Larson on, of all people.
	Why?
	I'll have anybody on.
	Well, pretty much.
	Yeah, you're right.
	You know, he's a highly, highly documented fraud.
	Well, according to you.
	Well, you know... And you know, I had... See, that's what I said earlier.
	Fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud.
	Last night I had Matthew Albaron.
	Did you hear him?
	Uh, yeah, a part of that, yeah.
	Did you think he was a big fraud?
	Hello?
	Hello?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I heard a portion of that.
	Yeah, my question was, did you think he was a big fraud?
	Um, you know, not necessarily.
	I'd have to look into it more, but Bob Larson's somebody I've really looked into.
	Well, fine.
	But, you know, lots of other people wrote and said, I've looked into Matthew Alper, and he's just, he's anti-God.
	He's just an atheist who's anti-God, and he's a big fraud.
	Everything he said is fraudulent, and they will quote me scripture to prove it.
	So I guess, you know, frauds are, they're depending on your perspective.
	And I have people here People who are out on every sort of edge you can imagine.
	I'm on the edge.
	And I bring people here who are on the edge.
	So depending on your perspective, you know?
	Other people you heard call tonight and said, say, Bob Larson.
	Absolutely for real.
	They've been there!
	They've been there!
	Nobody's ever come forth, said Reverend Larson, and said the whole thing was a fraud.
	They've investigated newspapers and so forth, yet this person comes on and says it's a well-documented fraud.
	Everybody thinks the person they don't like is a well-documented fraud.
	Disagreement.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	If I push the button, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes, good morning.
	Good morning, where are you?
	I'm calling you from Toronto, Canada.
	Toronto, okay.
	Yes, and you were talking about the city buried beneath the ocean.
	That's right.
	I do believe in that.
	You know, when people lived for 900 years, they weren't just doing nothing.
	We had an advanced civilization before the flood that the Bible says buried the world.
	And another thing, there is a true ghost story recorded in the Bible.
	Did you know that?
	No.
	At 1 Samuel 28, maybe you want to look it up sometime.
	Okay, I will do that.
	I appreciate your call.
	And Lost City?
	It may well be.
	Atlantis, it may well be.
	Just a piece of what may be buried beneath many of our oceans?
	Maybe.
	I don't know.
	You want to know about the article?
	You want to know more?
	Go read about it.
	We've got it on the website, thanks to Keith.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello, Mr. Bell.
	How are you doing?
	Okay, sir.
	I emailed you twice about a situation that I had while I was in the Department of Defense and positions that I had there, paranormal-related.
	Oh, why don't you give me some idea right now?
	Yeah, I sent you, basically we investigated, I was in for about four to five years, and one of the programs that I was in, we investigated paranormal type and UFO type phenomenon based on military installation solely.
	What kind of program was that, can you tell me?
	Government related, that's about as far as I can get into it.
	No exact name per se, we were all under classifications.
	I was under administrative force wise, I was under a 702 classification.
	But we were branched off into these departments.
	Really?
	Yes.
	And what sort of things did you investigate?
	We investigated everything from, believe it or not, most of these installations.
	You have situations just like out off bases, haunted house type situations, where you have people complain, you know, I've got ghosts in here.
	That's a minor thing.
	You know, that's actually a really good point.
	Nobody's ever addressed it before.
	You never hear about these sorts of things on military installations.
	How they are dealt with.
	If somebody goes running to the military police and says, oh my god, so and so is possessed, or I've seen a ghost, or things are moving in my house, what would the military do?
	Good question.
	We handle pretty much all that.
	We would handle UFOs.
	They happen more occurrences on bases than you realize, especially in the US.
	And a lot of that's investigated.
	They'll go through OSI, and OSI dispatches it to us, and then we investigate it.
	We all don't know.
	You know, there's higher people above us, just like in any structure, so a lot of stuff we don't know.
	You know, people lower than myself.
	But I mean, there's a lot in the situation.
	That's why I emailed you at first.
	I thought it was something interesting that a lot of people are, you know, like you said, curious or wonder about, and it's something that I feel that the government, you know, does a lot of hiding in.
	A lot of money goes into programs like this that they try to keep on a hush-hush.
	How long were you in this?
	I went in in 94, got out in 97, and then went back for a year again in 98.
	And during that entire time, or the bulk of it, you were in this unit?
	All except for the first year.
	The first seven to eight months I was based out of the F-22 out of Dayton, Ohio, out of Wright-Patterson, and then from there I went into this program.
	And this program, you believe, exists today as well?
	Oh, quite sure.
	Positive.
	Is it considered classified?
	I'm sure it is and was then.
	It's one of those things that... Did you ever find anything that you absolutely could not explain?
	I'm sure a lot of what you run into, just like investigators on the outside, a lot of it is, you know, can be explained one way or the other.
	A lot of it's not explained.
	A lot of it to this day, you know, you talk about putting chills.
	I've seen things that, honestly, to this day I consider, you know, my wife doesn't even like to talk about.
	There's issues that, you know, a lot of stuff I don't tell her about and a lot of stuff we have discussed since I got out.
	Like what?
	There are situations.
	We had a call at a house on one installation I was at.
	Went down and checked the house out.
	They were hearing doors banging on the second level of a two-story type house on these bases.
	We went to the base.
	The neighbors kept complaining.
	No one was staying in that home.
	It was an empty base housing at the time.
	We went up into the house, checked it.
	Nothing was there.
	Locked the door.
	Really didn't have no explanation for it.
	Had left.
	Got the call on two or three separate occasions from the neighbor on the other side.
	I went back to the house again later that evening.
	This was a daytime, 5.30, 6 o'clock in the evening.
	As we opened the door, the bathroom door on the second level, which is the top of the steps, slammed shut.
	And the security police that was with us at the time, which we always had one armed person with us, had pulled his weapon thinking that someone was in the home.
	We get to the second floor, the bathtub is filled full of water and blood.
	The water is actually red.
	We took samples of the water.
	When we took it back to run the samples on there, the water was clear.
	The water was clear.
	Oh, you're right.
	That does it for me.
	I wouldn't like that at all.
	Maybe you would like to email me again.
	OK.
	And let's see.
	I emailed you today, actually, and left my phone number on there.
	Yes, I know.
	But you've got to understand, I get about 2,000, 3,000 a day.
	So put military ghosts in the header, would you please?
	And I'll watch for it.
	OK.
	All right, thank you.
	Everybody has got to understand, I do the best I can.
	But 2,000 or 3,000 emails, which is the method I choose to correspond with a lot of you, is just too much.
	And the only way to deal with it, first of all, I can't slough it off on somebody else to read.
	I just can't do that.
	What I do read, I've got to read myself.
	So I go by the headers.
	You can know that.
	If you want to get my attention, put something short, succinct, and grabbing in the headline, and that'll help.
	More likely, I'll find it.
	It's a kind of a triage sort of thing.
	Otherwise, there are not enough hours in the day.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	OK.
	OK.
	OK, waiting.
	No, you're not waiting at all.
	You're on the air now.
	Turn your radio off and proceed.
	Oh, yes.
	I'm Ray of L.A.
	There is no wait.
	You're just boom on the air.
	Ray of L.A.
	Two topics from the... Mr. Larson?
	Yes.
	One was sleep paralysis.
	Yes.
	I want to lay people's fears to habit.
	Not frequently, but too frequently for my blood.
	It's not pleasant.
	It's just annoying, but it's not the end of the world.
	I do have drifting and out of dreams.
	I see my... Well, let me slow you up a little bit.
	We asked him about that specifically, and I've asked a number of OBE-type people.
	Paralysis precedes OBEs most frequently.
	I just wanted to relay my experience.
	The point was, he said that you are vulnerable at a time like that to possession.
	Go ahead and relate yours.
	Right.
	Sometimes from eating certain things I shouldn't eat too soon before bedtime.
	I can barely move my eyes.
	Sometimes I can swing my legs over and lower my head and get out of it.
	And I do drift in and out of dreams.
	Sometimes I see dream people near me, but it feels perfectly normal.
	It's nothing malevolent.
	You think it's just a little undigested bit of baloney or something?
	Right.
	And I do, the dreams are mostly pleasant.
	It's kind of half dream and half my surroundings.
	Like I'm looking through the window, I'll see part of my dreams through the window, but I don't see it as anything other than dream life.
	When you eat Mexican food, do you see Mexican ghosts?
	No, the food is mostly sweet stuff, and fruity stuff, and it's some chemical in it.
	I want to get to my second topic, because the topic of the hour is coming real soon.
	Oh, yes.
	And the other is multiple personalities.
	I do seem to experience that there seems to be two key factors.
	I notice it in women for two reasons, because I observe it more, women more than men.
	Men are a little more inhibited in expressing emotion.
	The two things is that they seem to be delusional into the past, like reliving the past.
	Are you speaking generally of women now, or of a specific woman?
	One specific woman in particular, but I've seen a little of it in others, but mostly this one particular woman who's lived alone for years.
	And it's not really delusion, except it could be living in the past, where there's a tremendous need to relive something in the past, or some extremely strong emotion, like wanting to Uh, be right.
	Always right.
	And, uh, that's, uh, one part of it.
	The other half is that while they're like this, they say, I looked for this purse on the table for hours and it's only inches away from where that person looked.
	And they did this sensation just did not come in and register in their brain.
	And it's almost like there's some, it's usually a, what I've read about multiple personalities is that it's more childlike, less developed, but, uh, so anyway, bottom line, you think it's all, Psychological phenomena, not... I think the soul has, like Larson was saying, the soul is really the mind.
	Body, mind, and spirit.
	And the spirit is what's immortal, from what I gather, and the mind, or the souls, are consciousness.
	And there's levels to it, and... Well, do you think what Larson said, Reverend Larson said, was accurate with respect to Many, many times, in multiple personality cases, it is demon possession.
	I would say the exact time you told me about my near-OBEs, when I'm in sleep paralysis, is an opening.
	So you don't believe... Well... It's another opening.
	I believe sleep paralysis could be an opening, and... Wait a minute!
	Wait a minute!
	You started off the discussion telling me that it was undigested food, or that it was some bad food you ate.
	I'm saying that that could trigger the sleep paralysis, and the sleep paralysis could in turn Be a prelude to something else, because it's an opening.
	And I'm saying the same thing about multiple personalities.
	Women who have very strong emotions, extremely strong emotions that they can't express in normal human discourse, will be open to multiple personalities.
	It's usually shame or fear, and that that multiple personality could indeed be an opening for something larger, like a demon possession.
	It's just another, you know, just like if your brakes turn off in your car... Well, that's fascinating.
	I thought you were really trashing the whole thing, but you're not.
	Absolutely not.
	It's like your car.
	You're saying both exist, really?
	Oh, absolutely.
	If you turn the brakes off in your car on a hill, your car is going to roll.
	That leaves an opening for the car to hit something.
	But it doesn't necessarily guarantee that the car is going to hit something.
	It's just another consequence of a chain of events.
	But I'm saying the beginning, having sleep paralysis is a perfectly natural thing.
	And having multiple personality demonstrations is a very normal human thing.
	But either one of those, either or, could be an opening to what Mr. Larson was talking about.
	Okay, I'll absolutely buy that.
	And do ask your remote viewers about the solar flare's connection to having to depend on groundwater.
	That'll be tonight.
	Alright sir, thank you very much and take care.
	Yes, when we come back tonight, we are going to have a couple of the original remote viewers on the program.
	Paul Smith and Russell Tark.
	That's when we're back tonight.
	And oh, one more thing.
	The story in Kentucky about the foals is growing to momentous size.
	And I've asked Linda Moulton Howe to investigate for us.
	So she may have that and one additional report tonight in the first hour.
	We don't know yet.
	It depends on whether she's able to get the interview today.
	Anyway... Guess that's enough for one night for me, huh?
	See you tonight!

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