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May 9, 2001 - Art Bell

02:51:11

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Kent Walker- Son of a Grifter

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 9th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening and or good morning wherever you may be across this great land of ours stretching from commercially the island of Wand in the Pacific eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands south into South America north all the way to the Pole and worldwide on the internet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is coast to coast a.m.
unidentified		Coast to coast to coast to coast a.m.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Great to be here.
		Well, it was a big day, wasn't it?
		It was the day of the Greer Disclosure News Conference at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C. And it began in an interesting way.
		The disclosure news conference was carried on the web, and many, many who tried to see it live on the web were disappointed.
		Here's one.
		John writes, Art, it was impossible to connect to Connect Live this morning for the Disclosure Project webcast using the high bandwidth connection.
		I could hear 20 or 30 seconds at a time using low bandwidth before getting disconnected.
		Well, this person wrote to ConnectLive.com's technical support address and received the following reply.
		If you are having trouble connecting, do not fear.
		It will be archived in its entirety for the next six months.
		The archive will be placed online this afternoon.
		There have been a number of sophisticated attempts to jam the signal.
		That's what Connect said.
		Connect Live said.
		Quote, there have been a number of sophisticated attempts to jam the signal.
		However, we have very successfully managed to get around those attempts, and thousands of people have watched the live broadcast.
		Please keep trying.
		Now, who would try to jam the live broadcast?
		Who would do a thing like that?
		I mean, really.
		Who would do something like that?
		And so I received many, many, many emails of that sort with the message from Connect that somebody had been jamming them.
		Odd.
		Very odd indeed.
		Well, the American press, you see, takes a little time to get going.
		It was a very well-presented news conference indeed.
		Now, I haven't had time to see it all on the web myself yet.
		But tonight we have it for you on my website.
		If you will go, we've got the link, which do.
		In fact, let me instruct you now, those of you who have not yet seen the news conference.
		The top says Greer Disclosure Project Video.
		And kaboom, over there you go.
		View part one, view part two, pick your modem speed.
		It's all there for you right now under what's new on my website at artbell.com.
		So you can see it.
		Now, as I just said a moment ago, the American press is a little slow.
		They take a little time getting cranked up.
		Early this morning on headline news, they were running a banner about it at the bottom of the news, and that ran all morning about the disclosure news conference.
		Then Inside Politics did a piece this afternoon on CNN, regular.
		And then tonight on CNN headline, I note that every single half hour they're running the story.
		And they're not laughing.
		I think that for the most part, for the most part, it's been pretty good coverage.
		In fact, right now, it's the top news story, at least within the hour, it has been the top news story at ABCNews.com.
		And I think we've got a link to that, too.
		Let me see.
		Well, I don't see it.
		I'm sure on our links page, you will find a link to it, ABCNews.com, top story right now.
		Heather Wright saw a multi-minute news spot on CNN, 6.30 p.m. Mountain Time for the disclosure conference.
		Dr. Greer spoke, as did other UFO observers.
		Here's somebody who says King 5 in Seattle did strong coverage of the UFO conference today.
		It was so shocking to have them showing their promo for it this afternoon.
		Boeing's move to Chicago was first big locally, of course.
		And then they went to a review of the UFO conference, and it was quite positive.
		Or this on Fox National News.
		We just got disclosure coverage at 7.11 p.m. Eastern Daylight Time.
		In a Fox News segment, brief, but no laughing.
		Showed part of the interview with one of the sergeants, film clip of discs, but the interview clip had him saying there were machines and beings.
		Now get this.
		Pentagon said that some of these people, quote, probably shouldn't be talking, end quote, according to the report.
		And said there was nothing to all of this UFO story stuff.
		Well, if there is nothing to UFO stories, why would Pentagon care if people talked about it?
		Interesting.
		And then I've got the full ABCnews.com story.
		So it looks like Dr. Greer is having some pretty good degree of luck, I would say, in getting this out.
	Now, I did not observe any major network coverage, ABC, NBC, CBS.
	Did you?
	I could be wrong about that.
	Maybe somebody got it, but I didn't see anything on the majors.
	Nevertheless, this is a process underway.
	And you are seeing the first stories carried pretty well on quite a bit of the major media.
	It's just one little jump for mankind from there to one, you know, ABC, NBC, CBS.
	One small step for the networks, but one great leap for mankind.
	Come on, networks, get it on.
	So that was the coverage story today on Dr. Greer's, I would say, a pretty large success.
	And remember, it's a process, and there will be other briefings and discussions going on in Washington over the next few days that Dr. Greer will be spearheading.
	He'll be meeting with the...
	Do I think we'll get them?
unidentified		Probably not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's just my pessimistic guess, but would I love to see them?
		Oh, yes.
		Oh, my, yes.
		Wouldn't that be something?
		All right, there's more.
		Stay right where you are.
		There is this big bulge building in Oregon.
		Actually, a series of big bulges, really one nine to twelve miles across and about four inches high.
		The ground is bulging in Oregon.
		And what do you think that might mean?
		It might mean there's magma, magma, moving around.
		Anyway, we'll get to the story here in a moment.
		Also, we had a listener, thank God for the listeners, who flew an airplane in an interesting area and took an even more interesting picture.
		And we're going to be seeking your help in telling us what it is we've got here.
unidentified		And now we take you back to the night of May 9, 2001, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what's going on in Oregon?
unidentified		Well, rumbling, I suppose, underground.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen to this, Associated Press.
		A significant bulge in the Earth's crust has developed over the past four years near volcanoes in central Oregon, but it's not clear whether it could mean a volcanic eruption anytime soon, say geologists.
		The bulge, and you don't like to think of the ground bulging, do you?
		The bulge, 9 to 12 miles across and about 4 inches high, was detected by satellite radar, according to Willie Scott, a USGS scientist at the agency's volcano lab in Vancouver.
		Because it's a volcanic area and there's been a long history of volcanic activity in that part of Cascades, it's possible it might be magma or molten rock moving deep underground, said Scott.
		The bulge is located near the Three Sisters, a trio of volcanoes at the center of the Cascade Range in Oregon.
		The last major eruption in the Pacific Northwest occurred, of course, in May of 1980 when Mount St. Helens blew up.
		The uplift in central Oregon is too broad and low to be noticed from the ground.
		So in other words, if you're walking along, you don't go, whoa, a bulge.
		It's got to be seen from satellite, but you don't want to think of the ground as bulging.
		Bulging is bad.
		Bulging is like when you blow up a balloon, right?
		Except that here we're dealing with, well, apparently rock and dirt and gazillions of pounds of pressure and possibly molten magma pushing up and causing the bulge.
unidentified		So hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You live in that area.
		I would be mindful of bulging ground.
		Kind of weird that you can't see it, but you really wouldn't notice a few inches of bulge, would you?
		I don't like these kinds of earth movement stories.
		I've never liked them.
		I've had a nightmare about the ground opening up and swallowing me.
		Maybe that's what will happen to Promp.
		Swallowed up.
		I'm getting a lot of stories about mold.
		We began getting calls from Texas the other night about some mold.
		Black mold.
		And by God, now I'm getting stories about black mold from all over the place.
		I mean everywhere.
		Here's one.
		Mold has proven deadly, but bleach repairs destroy environment for growth.
		The slimy black mold found in three Oakland County homes in the last month is a bona fide public health hazard that has cropped up in more than 20 other states besides Michigan and caused numerous infant deaths.
		All it takes to stop it is a cup of bleach and some home repair.
		It grows in areas that are constantly wet.
		Leaking roofs, Leaky plumbing, sewer backups, frequently overflowing washing machines can create environments for the mold.
		But pray tell, isn't this new?
		I mean, have any of the rest of you for your life, in your life, dealt with stories of black mold?
		Now, they're presenting this in a very straightforward way, but excuse me, I've been around for a while and I haven't heard of black mold before.
		Well, I've heard of like refrigerator mold.
		I mean, behind your refridge around the coils and all that, there would get to be mold, right?
		I had a caller the other night who said he had mold like that inside his refrigerator.
		That's really bad.
		But I've been around for a while, and I haven't heard about black mold killing people, have you?
		Maybe I've just missed it all these years, but all of a sudden, there's black mold everywhere.
		And frankly, I don't remember it from any time previous.
		Might be, but I've been around reporting on these kind of stories for a long time, and I haven't had black mold stories.
		Have you?
		Or is it just me?
		Now my website, you must go to my website, artbell.com, the second item down under what's new.
		Huh.
		What the hell have we found?
		We've got some photographs for you, and let me read you what the person who emailed me with these photos said.
		He said, Art, I was tooling around this weekend in my supercub, and I found this site west of Delta, Utah.
		It has what looks like ground radials in all directions and a very healthy-looking power line, dead ending to it, but no sign of buried pipeline or anything else in the vicinity.
		73s.
		Another ham, ham friend.
		And he got some pretty damn good photographs of what appears to be in the desert, partially at least covered by snow, a facility, we'll call it.
		Out in the middle of absolutely nowhere.
		You can see the building.
		Then you can see what appear to be ground radials leaving from this building in most directions.
		You can see a road.
		I think it's a road.
		And here is this facility out in the middle of absolutely nowhere.
		Now, the interesting thing is that these radials, you will notice, are melting the snow.
		Wherever they go, the snow does not.
		It is, in fact, the snow that made the radials visible.
		So I would ask that, though, you know, there may be a good explanation for this.
		It's not a radio station.
		I would assume, and I shouldn't really assume, that the radials are getting hot because they are obviously melting the snow wherever they go.
		Now, for the radials to be getting hot, that'd have to be a lot of RF.
		Radio frequency.
		Oh, lots and lots and lots of it it would take to cause that.
		So we've got a mystery installation for you tonight.
		There may be some sort of explanation that will make sense once one of you looks at this.
		But I would like to know what Frank Oblumquist found.
		Wouldn't you?
		So anybody knowing what this might be, by all means, email me at artbell at mindspring.com.
		It's a genuine mystery.
		As is tonight, the location of our newest cat.
		You know, we've got a new cat.
	I think.
	He is Yeti.
	We named him Yeti.
	And he's a little guy, and he's very emaciated, very, very skinny, about one inch thick.
	Well, Yeti has been out and about all day, but Yeti tonight, hissing at my other cats, I might add, and backing them off too.
	I mean, this little featherweight is backing off my heavyweights.
	And now all of a sudden tonight, Yeti is missing.
	We spent the better part of an hour looking for little Yeti.
	Yeti has found a hiding place, and we know them all because we have three cats, and they've all used them, and we know every place to look, and Yeti has found a new one.
	Nobody's opened the door.
	Nobody's gone outside, so we know for sure that little Yeti remains in the building somewhere.
	But I have looked behind every piece of equipment, under everything possible, everywhere.
	We know all the cat hiding places.
	Yeti has found a new one and apparently decided to go to sleep rather than confront my cats.
	Now, my three other cats, of course, are giving him the evil eye, avoiding him, the hiss, and he probably feels a little overwhelmed.
	So, Yeti has gone and found a place that is like sort of almost out of this time and place.
	I mean, impossible.
	We've looked everywhere.
	Where has Yeti gone?
	Is little Yeti living up to his name?
	And pulling a disappearing act?
	I don't know.
	We'll see if he turns up.
	Hunger is bound to bring him out eventually.
	Anyway, that's the state of affairs to this hour.
	Open lines are next.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM From May 9th, 2001 Not without a star Free,
		Only one will be free We're huddled close Hang on to a dream On the boats and on the planes They're coming to America Never looking back again They're coming to America I
		see you every morning Outside the restaurants The music plays Sonan Chalas
		Loving days Loving nights Where would I be without my woman?
		Loving days Loving nights Where would I be without my woman?
		Loving days Loving nights Loving days
		listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight's an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 9th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you imagine growing up in a family with a mother and a brother who were eventually headed for the big house forever, essentially forever?
		I'm going to be interviewing a very interesting man named Kent Walker at the top of the hour who wrote a book called Son of a Grifter.
		Son of a Grifter.
		The mother-son team convicted of murdering and kidnapping a New York millionaires were each slapped with sentences of more than 100 years.
		That would be the man's brother that I'm going to interview and his mom.
		Santa Kymes, 65, was sentenced to 120 years and eight months behind bars, while her 25-year-old son Kenneth received 125 years and four months.
		The two grifters were convicted last month, at the time of this writing, May 9th, of killing 82-year-old Irene Silverman in a plot to take her $10 million townhouse.
		Kenneth Kimes was convicted on 60 counts while his mother found guilty on 58 charges now that's a That's this man's family in jail forever.
		He grew up in a complete life of crime with grifters.
		You ever see the movie The Grifters?
		You know what Grifters are?
		The short con, the long con?
		Remember the sting?
		Well, sort of in that venue, I suppose.
		Uh, except for real.
		Can you imagine?
		Can you imagine what it would be like living in a family like that where crime would be the way you lived?
		Crime is the way you lived?
		I can't imagine that, but we're going to talk about it with a man who's just written a book.
		Ken Walker.
		Okay, open lines now.
		We still have not located Little Yeti.
		He really has pulled a disappearing act.
		It's literally impossible.
		I wonder where he could possibly have gone.
		I'm telling you, it's like he disappeared.
		All right, open lines.
		First time caller line, you are on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, Art.
unidentified		How are you doing tonight?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing okay, sir.
unidentified		Where are you?
		My name is Matt.
		I'm in St. Pete, Florida.
		I'm a cab driver down here.
		Okay.
		Do you want to talk about the weather or the ghost I've got in my cab?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have a ghost in your cab?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In your cab.
unidentified		Yeah, he.
		I guess it's a he.
		I'll be driving down the road.
		You know, like, when you're in a car, you can feel when somebody's knees are in your back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you're sitting in the driver's seat and they put their knees up there, you can feel it, yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		This happens to me three or four times a week.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So this ghost knees you?
unidentified		Well, apparently it's a fairly large ghost.
		But y'all be driving down the road all of a sudden.
		They feel these knees in my back, and I'm like, oh, hi, you're back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I think I'd get a new cab.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Had you thought of that?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, a cab is a real small place, and to have a ghost in a cab with you is like, this town isn't big enough for you and me, buddy.
		I'd be out of there.
		Why not get a new cab and stick this on somebody you don't like?
unidentified		I like the cab.
		I've gotten used to it.
		And I'm guessing, I'm going out limit.
		I think it might be my dad because the other night I felt the knees in my back again.
		I got the odor of real strong Folger's coffee.
		And that was what my dad used to drink.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's big on Folger's, huh?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, if you think it's your dad, then I guess you wouldn't want to get another cab.
unidentified		No.
		One thing that's kind of sound like, as far as the weather and stuff, I just read your book about the global superstorm.
		I read through it a couple of times last week.
		Yes.
		Is there like a website I can go to where we can track the Atlantic temperatures?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
		What we need is the buoy we talked about there in the beginning that we really don't have.
		No, I don't know of any, and I will certainly look into it for you.
		I had another scientist the other night who was talking about exactly that and echoed what we wrote.
		Watch for the change, said he, in the Atlantic currents, and watch for a sudden, rapid, disastrous cooling in Europe.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know a website to send you to immediately, but that's how it would begin if it does.
		Very interesting stuff, and we are obviously in the middle of a large change right now.
		All kinds of change.
		The quickening is actually upon us right now.
		So here's an interesting little story for you from CNN.
		The headline is, Atmosphere losing ability to clean itself.
		A compound that naturally rids the air of pollutants has become increasingly scarce in the global atmosphere in the past decade, according to a new scientific report.
		The beneficial cleanser destroys many artificial contaminants in the air, such as carbon monoxide, sulfur dioxide, and nitrogen dioxide.
		It also eats up many gases involved in ozone depletion and the greenhouse effect.
		So where's the little guy gone?
		Levels of the chemical, the hydroxyl radical known as OH, the dominant oxidizing compound in the lower atmosphere, dropped considerably more in the northern hemisphere than the southern one, researchers said.
		The overall negative acceleration in the global OH trend is dominated by changes in the northern hemisphere and suggests rather, a cause for major OH variations.
		The amount of OH in the less developed south was on average between 14 and 35 percent higher than the north, concluded the scientists.
		It fell about 10 to 24 percent between 1979 and 2000.
		Very interesting.
		Very, very, very interesting and concerning that that agent which has been keeping our atmosphere clean is beginning to apparently lose the battle, or the battle to propagate itself as it naturally would, resulting, no doubt, eventually in what?
		The atmosphere losing the ability to clean itself.
		You know, it sounds like one of these futuristic movies where everybody's riding around on motorcycles and zombies are walking in the street and some people have on gas masks and the future is in sealed buildings and underground because the entire atmosphere is ruined.
		But that could never happen, huh?
		You found Yeti?
unidentified		Yeah, he was in the sofa.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Excuse me?
		Did you say in the sofa?
		In the sofa.
		How could he have been, how could he get in the sofa?
unidentified		Well, because we have reclining sofa.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you mean he was under it?
unidentified		No, he would.
		Yeah.
		The only way that I knew he was under was the other cat's mountain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see, all right.
		Well, Yeti has been located inside a sofa.
		That's a new one.
		Inside the sofa.
		Good.
		Anyway, he's there.
		Wow, Cardline, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		I just wanted to mention something about last night's subject.
		You talked to a real nice man, Neil Slade.
		He's real smart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		And you're real brilliant yourself.
		And I want to say that just to put something out there, you know, humoring my philosophy for just one second, arrested or not, that brain waves themselves are electromagnetic force.
		And I'm so sure that a Big Bang Theory was a theory because the mind is, of course, well, I don't want to get religious, but the mind is connected with some great, some being.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe.
		Well, yeah, but.
		Maybe.
		Hey, listen, you check out the current issue of Newsweek.
		I've got a man who, you know, the God part of the brain guy is coming on the air again, who a lot of people love to hate.
		But I have this feeling that he's dead right, that we are wired, that our brains are literally wired for worship, religion.
unidentified		Well, I'm not talking about that.
		I'm just saying that, you know, we're intelligent beings is what I mean.
		And, you know, the Big Bang theory may not have been a theory because, you know, itself, when your brain waves, impulse, those impulses are like a Big Bang itself.
		It's really what I wanted to mention, is basically what I want to say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not exactly following you, that are brain waves, which, yes, you're right, they're electromagnetic, certainly.
		No question about it.
		But how does that equate to the Big Bang?
unidentified		I'm saying that can it, you know, what I'm saying is, you know, just to humor somebody's question, you know, can it tie in somehow?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, to humor you, I guess I would say that the Big Bang certainly could be held accountable for our brain waves because without it, we wouldn't be here, right?
		So that's the only immediate connection I see.
		So I'll say that to humor you.
		Yes, the Big Bang would be connected to our brain waves in the sense that it began everything.
		If I understand the conventional Big Bang theory correctly, boom!
		And then all this stuff begins moving outward where there was nothing before.
		There is suddenly something.
		That's a contemplation of the Big Bang and something from nothing or something all that is right now and all that you can see in the skies with all the suns and the planets and the quasars and all the things that are up there.
		So mystical and magical and amazing to consider.
		All of that came from nothing.
		Something smaller than a quark in size.
		Virtually undetectable.
		And all of this came from that.
		Well, when you begin contemplating that, then you begin thinking about God.
		Why?
		Because there's no other answer.
		There is simply no other answer.
		I mean, there are theories, but there's certainly no other answers.
		It's where most of the best theoretical physicists say, well, you know, we don't know.
		What happened a second before the Big Bang?
		We don't know.
		And they're being honest.
		We don't know.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		It's Kathy from Woodridge, New Jersey.
		And when I was in the supermarket and I looked at that news week and I saw it, I immediately said two things.
		I said, wow, Matthew Halbert, the god part of the brain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the god part of the brain, you bet.
unidentified		Ask Matthew if he feels he got any credit from that because I didn't see his name mentioned once.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm giving him a lot of.
unidentified		Oh, me too.
unidentified		But I can't wait till he comes on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then, listen, I've got another article here, too, entitled, Scientists Find Biological Reality Behind Religious Experience.
		And again, it goes to work and points out a part of the brain where they find activity occurring when you're thinking about things religious.
		Kath, so here we are.
unidentified		Well, of all the things for me to be calling you, I never thought I'd be calling you about mold.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can I ask you a question?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I watch TV, and I watch the Sopranos.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
unidentified		Is it really like that back there in New Jersey?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, is it like the Sopranos?
unidentified		Only if you live in that part of Newark, you know, I don't know about it.
		Well, only if you talk to Curtis Sleewak.
		You know, Curtis was in jail a couple weeks ago, and I was trying to call you in trouble.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, and I heard he got put in the slammer for protesting in front of an embassy or something.
unidentified		Yeah, but it was a good thing.
		He was doing a good job, actually.
		We can't put him down in that.
		But back to the old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did WABC bail him out?
unidentified		Yeah, Ron Kooby did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ron Kuby did.
unidentified		Ron Kuby, his partner in crime, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you've got to bail out your buddies.
unidentified		Black mold was growing in the back of our tub surround and in the back of where we had pipes that had previously leaked, and we were not quick enough to restore the area, and so the black mold grew and grew and grew.
		And I kept getting this repetitious respiratorial illness over and over and over.
		And finally, I just said to the doctor, would you please do the right test and see if this is, because I read something, see if this is from mold.
		And sure enough, last year it was, and I've been fine.
		And we took the wall out, and it was black, and it was wet, and it was oozy, and we had it analyzed, and it was full of bacterium, and we had to wear special things over our face.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
unidentified		How old are you?
unidentified		46 in August.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You paused there.
unidentified		Oh, I had to think because it was August 54.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you remember from your childhood black mold that killed people?
		Do you remember that?
		I don't.
unidentified		I don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, they're writing about it like, oh, yeah, black mold.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, come on, this is new.
unidentified		Could they be afraid that they could be sued if they own buildings that contain this from floaty plumbing?
		You know, ooh, I don't think that.
		Do you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thanks, Kath.
unidentified		Okay, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		I think black mold is new.
		By the way, I forgot my break, but not entirely.
unidentified		here it is Now we take you back to the night of May 9, 2001, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My mom told me, like I'm sure your mom did, you don't steal.
		And if you get caught stealing like I did, you get marched back to the grocery store when you're real young with whatever you stole and you're forced to give it back to the storekeeper and then feel shame and apologize and you have this lesson that you learned.
		And that's, I think, how it happens for a lot of kids.
		But their moms at least tell them, do not steal.
		What if you had a mom that was teaching you how to steal?
		Can you imagine what that would be like?
		I mean, you have the exact opposite.
		Instead of the moral, ethical lessons that most parents give, they gave the exact opposite, and they were teaching you how to be a criminal.
		That's incredible, and that's what my guest is going to be talking about.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Oh.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes and hello.
unidentified		Hello, this is Tim in San Francisco.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is Art in Perump.
unidentified		Oh, hello.
unidentified		I was calling about the video that you were talking about last night of the brain fireman in Indonesia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, the incredible video.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Yes, it is incredible.
		I wanted to point out two points of evidence, one of which bears for the case and one against it.
		Okay.
		First, the one against it, because I think it's important to know the clip that was on your site had some additions that were not in the original footage that I saw.
		And those additions were the text that was on the screen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Such as Brain, Fireman, etc.
unidentified		I saw the whole documentary of their trip to Borneo, which was really anthropological in one sentence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but the video, nevertheless, was representative of actually what happened.
unidentified		Yes, except for amygdala.
unidentified		The word amygdala region was not in the original.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's right.
		My guest added that because that's what he talks about.
		What he was noting was that that horrible needle that was screwed into the brain, which I'm never going to get used to that concept, was screwed in at the point that my guest was talking about.
		So he added the little caption that said that.
unidentified		Right, but I don't think that was in the original documentary.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I just explained to you that it wasn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It wasn't.
unidentified		I mean, I doubt the needle was anywhere near his amygdala.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it certainly appeared to be if you listened to the description of my guest of where it is and looked where the needle went.
unidentified		But I saw the original documentary and it did not come across that way at all in terms of how they were talking about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know.
		I'm sure they didn't mention that.
		But again, my guest is pointing out accurately, if you'll go back and look at the video and put your fingers where my guest said to put them and imagine the center of that point.
		You'll find that's exactly where the needle is going in in the video.
unidentified		Yeah, but it'd have to be awfully deep to reach the amygdala.
unidentified		I mean, that would have been...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Didn't you see the video?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he was going, yeah.
unidentified		It was a wild video.
		Don't get me wrong.
		Okay, the other thing I want to say, though, was there's no way that that could have been a fraud.
		And I was going over in my mind, can this be a fraud?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it was not a fraud.
unidentified		It couldn't be.
		It couldn't be because the filmmakers would have had to be in on it.
		And the filmmakers weren't even concerned about the paranormal.
		They were there for something totally different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, that's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, it wasn't a fraud.
unidentified		No, not at all.
		They just came across this guy.
		They were as astonished as anyone else.
		That was a side thing in their documentary.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People should go see it.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate the call, sir.
		Thank you.
		Yes, it is the most amazing video you've ever seen.
		But the part about the screwing in of the needle into the brain.
		That's a nightmare.
		It's my worst nightmare.
		That and the ground opening up.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight's an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 9th, 2001.
		She's coming in 12 heavy fights.
		Her moonlit wings reflect the stars that guide her towards salvation.
		I stopped an old man along the way, hoping to find some old forgotten words or ancient fallow years for Worldwide Humiliation.
		THE END
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired May 9th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		Most of you morning, and I don't know, some afternoon, some evening, we're all over the place.
		I'm Art Bell, and coming up, something a little different.
		When I was a child, and I'm sure that when you were a child, your mothers and fathers inculcated into you that you shouldn't steal, right?
		You shouldn't steal.
		You shouldn't get into fights.
		I mean, all the normal things, right, that kids are taught.
		Well, what if your family was different?
		What if your family instead was teaching you virtually how to become a criminal instead of how to become a good child?
		How to steal, how to hurt, how to even kill.
		What if that was your family?
		Can you imagine that?
		Many of you will know the story because of the movie or because of the book that is just coming out nationwide, big hit nationwide.
		It's called Son of a Grifter.
		Do you know what a Grifter is?
		Do you have any idea what a Grifter is?
		A Grifter is another way of saying a con artist, I think.
		And you may have seen a movie called The Grifters, which was a pretty interesting movie, actually.
		Not altogether, perhaps.
		It was long ago, but it seems modeled in some ways after Son of a Grifter.
		My Guest coming up is Kent Walker, and he was the other brother, I guess would be a way to put it.
		I read a thing from Court TV earlier.
		Court TV, the mother-son team convicted of murdering and kidnapping a New York millionaires were each slapped with sentences of more than 100 years.
		That's serious time.
		Santa Kaime, 65, sentenced to 120 years and eight months behind bars, while her 25-year-old son, Kenneth, that would be Kent's brother, received 125 years and four months.
		The two grifters were convicted last month of killing 82-year-old Irene Silverman in a plot to take her $10 million townhouse, essentially, I guess, assuming her identity.
		Kenneth Kymes was convicted on 60 counts while his mother was found guilty of 58 charges.
		Well, this is the end of the story, really, not the beginning of the story, the beginning of the story, and how we got to that point where Kent's brother and his mom essentially have gone to jail for life plus in 100, 125 years.
		That's really a long time.
		So coming up is Kent Walker, and he's going to tell us what happened.
		This really should be a very, very interesting story.
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of May 9, 2001 on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, actually, this is kind of interesting because we were talking for a moment before the interview that's about to begin with Kent Walker.
		And Kent, of course, spent quite a bit of his life in Las Vegas.
		And so when we finally talked tonight, after even setting up the interview, Kent kind of realized he knew me anyway by virtue of the fact that he'd listened to me on the radio a lot of times.
		Is that right, Kent?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, loud and clear.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Kent meet company on a lot of drives between L.A. and Las Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So when did it finally occur to you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's who he is.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		The voice.
		The minute I start searching for the dial, in my car, the light's broken on the radio.
		So I got to search pretty hard, so the voice was very distinctive.
		And I feel like I know you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wonderful.
		Okay, well, that'll make the interview maybe all the easier.
		This is really some book that you've written here, son of a grifter.
		Big national release, huh?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		We got a lot of attention.
		I'm very grateful for that.
		You know, when you write something like this, you have no idea how it's going to be received.
		And you're talking to a guy who avoided the press for a living for a long time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's not so easy, is it?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		No.
		Las Vegas, I tell you what, it was incredible.
		We had 55 different agencies from around the world jump into my business in the course of two days.
		And it's a life-changer.
		It's definitely life-changing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I saw the movie The Grifters.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In The Grifters, they described, I don't know if you ever saw that movie.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I did.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I had to get it after all this happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they described the short con and the long con.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I guess your family ultimately was involved in what would have to be called a long con.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, what happened in the 90s was definitely the long con.
		Mom always tried for the long con, but she rarely succeeded.
		You know, she all the news reports when all this started saying what a great grifter she was and just how great she was at everything.
		But the problem was that she failed at everything she did.
		She could never be satisfied.
		And she was always her own worst enemy and destroyed everything she accomplished.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tell me what you remember about growing up.
		I mean, I started out the show talking about, I mean, almost everybody's mom and dad in America, you know, tell them you don't steal.
		And you're taught lessons about stealing and doing things that are against law when you're young, whether or not it really takes fully or not.
		In some cases, most cases, I guess it does.
		But I can't imagine living in a home where the exact opposite was true.
		So what do you remember about growing up?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I remember the tension was always there.
		And, you know, I've been asked this question a lot.
		The best way I can describe it is as all I knew.
		I'm a father, and I have an eight-year-old son.
		And he's not learning what I learned when I was a kid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, I'll tell him, hey, you know what?
		You've got to take out the trash now.
		And just that way, just like you tell your kid to wash the car or mow the yard, my orders were, can't come on, we're going to go shopping.
		And shopping meant we went shoplifting, and then I went and distracted the attention for the clerk so mom could stuff her purse with a roast or lipstick, whatever it may be at the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that was just, was that sort of, that was just normal?
		I mean, that was your job.
		And so did you think of it as did you understand what you were doing at the time?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I always felt the tension, but it's also all that I knew.
		You know, I knew things were different at my house.
		I knew, you know, when most kids went home and they did their homework and watched their TV and stuff, I went home and the maids were there, which was different already.
unidentified		And then, you know, the maids were there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you were living a pretty significant lifestyle.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Well, one thing that was interesting with my mother, there really wasn't a lot of money around until she met my stepfather, which was, you know, they got married in the early 70s.
		But even if we lived in an apartment, there was a mate, as long as I can remember.
		I never remember any time with my mother where there wasn't a mate of some sort in the house.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No kidding.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it was pretty strange.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So she found the money somewhere.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Well, she didn't pay the mate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Excuse me?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, she would not pay the mates.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		In fact, she is the only person I'm aware of in the last century that was convicted on slavery charges in Las Vegas in the mid-80s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Slavery?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yes, she was convicted for several counts.
		The legal term is involuntary servitude.
		And she had illegal aliens from Mexico, Central America, Peru, wherever.
		And she would entice them to come work for the family.
		And there was an agreement up front that it would be room and board.
		Some of the majority claimed that she would pay them, but that never would happen.
		And she would actually enslave these poor women.
		Wow.
		She did federal time for that.
		She served four years for that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where were you born?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I was born in Sacramento, California, as far as what my birth certificate says.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I have very little documents don't mean a whole lot to me in my life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you suspect you might not have been born in Sacramento?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I know it's a strange statement, and I know it rings with conspiracy theory and all that stuff, but anyone who's going to read this book is going to understand that statement pretty loud and clear.
		In fact, my mother's birth certificate is, you know, it's been a question for years and years.
		I finally got a copy of the official certificate from the state of Oklahoma.
		And this is a certified copy that if you call up, they'll send you the copy.
		And I tell you what, you put that birth certificate next to a copy of one of her letters that she would have written in the 70s.
		And the writing is just so similar.
		It's just incredible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean like she wrote her own birth certificate?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		And it makes sense because...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, what did you know of your mom's background as you were growing up?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She said she was born in Oklahoma?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Well, it changed periodically.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		The first story I got was from my aunt and my father and said that she was born in Pennsylvania.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pennsylvania.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		And was the offspring of well-to-do parents who really just didn't know how to handle her because she was just a wild child.
		During the sentencing program or part of the slavery trial, well, actually, let me go back.
		When she met Ken Kaise, my stepfather, he was from Oklahoma.
		And, you know, doing the research for the books, you know, it makes a lot of sense that it really helped her get in the door if she was from Oklahoma also.
		And so I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's very difficult.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so she might have had a motivation then to have a birth certificate modified to be from Oklahoma.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Exactly.
		But as far as where she comes from, it changed because also then during the slavery trial, went to the sentencing phase.
		At that time frame, it was very chic to reduce your sentence by claiming to be sexually abused when you were a child.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, slow up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where were you living when this slavery thing came about?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		This was in Las Vegas.
		I had made the break from her.
		I was a helicopter pilot in the United States Army, and she literally reached in and grabbed me out of the Army against my will.
		It wasn't my choice to help them fight the maize case because Attached with the criminal case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She grabbed you out of the army?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did she do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Claim some kind of exceptional duress or whatever?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Well, what had happened, I was two days away from an exercise in Canada to support National Guard mission.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		And I got a call from my little brother in tears saying that mom and dad had just been arrested.
		And so I flew out to California from Kentucky, picked them up, made her back in time to catch the mission.
		Then I went up on my mission in Canada, and then I was called into the major's tent, and he says, well, you have to go home on emergency leave because your father's had a heart attack.
		And I talked him out of it.
		I said, sir, I don't think that's what happened.
		And then I got called in the next morning.
		I was ordered to go.
		And my mother had just called the right people in my chain of command to make sure I would be in Las Vegas to help her out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and it ended my career.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there had been no heart attack?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		No, there had not been a heart attack, which is a story in itself.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		They cultivated so many doctors and so many letterheads that they delayed many of their civil and criminal trials with all these elements.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So your mom was really good at what she did?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		She was good on the short term.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		You know, like I said, she really never ended up with anything to show for her efforts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the movie, The Grifters, The Short Con was something as simple as switching to 10 for a 20.
		Yeah, switching to 10 for a 20, that kind of thing.
		Really small-time stuff, or maybe even you could certainly equate that with shoplifting, for example.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Sure, sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Short con stuff.
		And a lot of people live their whole lives doing that, and that's how they live their lives.
		And they never go to the long con.
		In fact, the majority of them never go to the long con.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Thank God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank God, indeed.
		So your earliest memories, really even your earliest memories, were of your mom being a grifter, of doing this, all this sort of thing.
		I guess probably not just the maids.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Like I said, and my earliest memories, there was always the stealing.
		But she was also doing the bigger cons also.
		I mean, every house that we lived in, I don't think she ever paid for.
		I remember one house where she got someone to actually build it for her on a spec situation.
		And it looked like the Hilton, Las Vegas Hilton outfront.
		Beautiful landscaping.
		After about six months, they came and yanked the cactus out of the front yard, finally.
		Cars, every car she drove was stolen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you say stolen?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, in fact, we illustrate in the book what she would do, she'd go up and she'd put on the show.
		She's a dead ringer for Elizabeth Taylor in these days, so she looked rich.
		She knew the talk, and we'd walk onto a car lot, she'd pick out a car she liked, and we'd take it for a test drive.
		And then she'd stop dropping the names of people that she knew and fit the part.
		And finally, she'd just wore the salesman down where he just, let's get back to the lot.
		And then so she let the guy out and says, why don't you go in there and get the paperwork?
		I just want to make sure I can parallel park this car and I'll write you a check.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		And so the guy would be pretty excited and exhausted.
		And then she'd take the car and park it in our driveway.
		And it was that easy.
		And then when the police would come, she'd be able to talk to the police and say, hey, this is a civil case because they gave me the keys.
		I was going to come back tomorrow the next day to fill out the paperwork.
		They said you can have the car.
		So the police couldn't even get the car from them.
		So she was doing what she did that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So she would be able to keep that car until this thing would wind its way through some sort of civil court?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Sometimes a week, sometimes a month, sometimes longer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		while did you do it when did you arm as a child begin to develop a sense of I went to 22 different schools before I was in sixth grade.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Went to a lot of different schools.
		I was fortunate.
		When I was very young, a very nice lady kind of took me under her wings.
		She was kind of a godmother for me, in fact.
		And she lived next door to us, and mom was always looking for the babysitters because sometimes it was not convenient to have a six-year-old son in your tow.
		And I kind of got a look at what normal life was like.
		And it sounds strange.
		Most kids want to stay up all night and get in trouble and stuff.
		It felt kind of neat having a bedtime and not having to worry about the cops knocking on the door.
		So that was probably the first glimpse I had.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that's when you began to realize that what you were doing was not normal.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or at least that there was something else.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Knowing that this is maybe something better than what I'm involved with now.
		But it was still my mom.
		I still love her.
		I still do.
		She's my mom.
		And when I was about 12 years old, right before my brother was born, I got in trouble.
		I stole a surfboard, and I got caught.
		And didn't even know how to surf.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did your mom react to your getting caught at something?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		She was furious at me for getting caught.
		She actually went down to the house where I took the surfboard.
		It was in a guy's garage, and she was mad at me.
		She told me that I should have gone in the back way and stuff like that, so I wouldn't have gotten caught, so I wouldn't have been seen.
		So she wasn't angry that I stole the surfboard.
		She was angry that I got caught.
		And she tried to play my legal defense for me, and I thought for sure that I was going to end up in juvenile hall forever.
		And that was kind of a defining moment for me.
		That was, you know what?
		I don't want to do that.
		And that started kind of the transition phase of my life where I started standing up against her and where a lot of the battles that we had began.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you had battles?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Oh, for 25 years of them.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about your brother?
		Obviously, he didn't take the same path you did.
		He took the path with his mom with no resistance.
		What's the story on your brother?
		What do you think is the story on your brother?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Kenny's case is so complicated and varied.
		You know, he was born with two extraordinary parents with extraordinary circumstances.
		He was tutored at a young age.
		He was much more controlled than I was.
		He was actually sheltered from a lot of things that I was exposed to at a young age.
		We illustrate a little deal in the book when I was walking out of a convenience store in Las Vegas, picked up a pack of cigarettes and a couple of old groceries for the house, and he wanted this thing, a silly putty.
		And so I put it in my pocket with every intention of paying for it at the counter.
		And I walked out of the front door, I reached in my pocket, and there's this thing, a silly putty.
		And he looks at me, he screams at me.
		You stole a silly putty.
		He was in tears because he thought I was going to steal this for him.
		And he was about 10, 11 years old at this time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you were.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		And I was, I'm 13 years his senior, so I was 24.
		Right.
		And I felt such joy that moment that he was actually upset that I was doing something like this.
		I went back and paid for it.
		But it just really brought a lot of joy to my life because it confirmed the fact that he had been sheltered from the bad stuff that I never was at that point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But in the end...
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		He was properly convicted.
		There's no doubt about that.
		And there's also, he's actually got his standing murder charges for another murderer in California now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold on, hold on right there.
		Kent Walker is my guest.
		He's written a book called Son of a Grifter.
		We've got a link to be able to get the book.
		This is one hot book nationally.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 9, 2001.
		Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
		Oh, oh, oh.
		Oh, oh, oh.
		Oh, oh.
		And speaking Come on Oh, oh, oh.
		Oh, oh, oh.
		Oh, oh, oh.
		The End You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 9th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Kent Walker, who just wrote a book called Son of a Grifter, The Twisted Tale of Santa and Kenny Kynes, the most notorious con artists in America.
		A memoir by The Other Son.
		The book is just breaking nationally.
		It's a big one.
		And I believe there either was or will be a movie as well about this incredible, incredible family.
		But we've got The Other Son with us here tonight.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
		You're listening to Arc Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 9, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Music Once again, here's Kent Walker.
		Kent, how did you get the last name of Walker?
		Shouldn't you technically be Kent Times?
		Yes, Kent.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		No, I am a product of Shantae's, my mother's second marriage.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Kenny's my half-brother from his millionaire stepfather, Kent.
unidentified		Oh.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any idea at all how your mom, obviously before you were born, got to be the way she is?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		That's a question that has haunted me for years, and it's obviously one of the most prevalent questions we have now.
		And the answer is elusive.
		There's very few facts that we can find on her, her very early years.
		Once she's about eight years old, it's pretty easy to track her, but all the stories are different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would think during the course of the trial, and it was a big one, that the attorneys for her really would have done some digging.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did anything come up there?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not sure the attorneys did that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm not sure.
		I mean, God bless them, they had the hardest clients in the world, but I'm not sure my mother and brother got the best representation in the world either.
		But I mean, they put them on 16 minutes before the trial even went on.
		And talking to a lot of other attorneys is just something you really don't do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are they incarcerated now?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		My brother's been extradited to California for murder charges for David Kasden.
		And my mother is still in New York fighting the extradition.
		I am told that she probably will be extradited to California, but it might take as long as six months.
unidentified		Six months.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then, again, you don't really know too many pieces about how this happened to your mom, how she became the way she was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe she was brought up in a family like you were.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, because she was adopted when she was, I think, eight years old, eight or 13.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but grifters.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		The stories before that, all the stories I believe to be true said that she was just a wild child.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But don't grifters have to be trained?
		I mean, after all, you know, some people are naturals.
		All of these cons, do you think it just sprang from her mind, or was there some Elmer or somebody helping her?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		The one thing about my mother is she was incredibly intelligent.
		She was as sharp as attack.
		Dahmer Gentile, a friend of mine who represented her in the MAIDS trial, would attest to that.
		Every attorney would.
		Just how incredibly intelligent she was.
		And if something she wanted, she'd do her homework.
		She could probably, if she decided to be an attorney today, she could pass the bar in a year.
		She'd find a way to learn what she had to learn.
		If she wanted to find out about the radio business, she'd have you on the phone picking your brains.
		She'd be good at it in six months.
		She had a tenacity that was unlike any person I've ever met.
		I've been in the direct sales business for 15 years.
		I've met some pretty good salespeople.
		You can take 10 of the best I've ever met, and they do not have the charisma or the ability to manipulate people as she had.
		And, you know, she had a lot of analysts look at her in the course of the trials and stuff.
		The only thing I ever heard to come close to explain her behavior is they showed me a bar graph, and one is your age chronologically, and one is your age emotionally.
		And hers kind of leveled off at the age of 15.
		But then her IQ and intelligent level is extremely high.
		So you took someone who's very beautiful, someone who was very intelligent, but emotionally not prepared to handle those deals.
		That's kind of the only explanation I could have.
		The sad part about it is I've not had any behavioral therapist tell me any reason for it.
		And I've come to the realization it's just what she is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But a really good con person requires some training unless it's all OJT.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		She was definitely an inventor.
		I mean, how many people would go out and try to steal a mansion like this?
		And that was the motive for the murder in New York.
		I think that's one of the things that also helped her get away with so much for so long is that no one ever saw crimes like this before.
		Well, people don't do this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, you're right about that.
		I was alluding to my own background earlier.
		I had, boy, I'll tell you, I had very strict parents.
		My mom was a Marine drill instructor.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Oh, wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My dad was a retired colonel in the Marine Corps.
		I was born on Camp Lejeune.
		I, too, moved around a whole lot when I was young, but it was in the military service.
		And, you know, as a dependent.
		And I had two Marines for parents.
		That's called really strict.
		So I came from totally the other side of the road here.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I think maybe I find someone who I'm better off than.
		I'm not sure.
		That would be tough.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So this is all unimaginable to me.
		And it's unimaginable that she could do all this without help, that she didn't have some sort of mentor into the finer, you know, the finer points of at least the short cons.
		But she just constantly did them?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I have nothing to show that at all.
		And it's a good observation on your part.
		I mean, it's a very good question.
		But my partner in the book is Mark Shoney, great writer and a very experienced investigative reporter.
		And one of the main goals for the book is to make sure it was honest and be the truth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		So we dig deep.
		We dug deep, and we talked to a lot of people, and we looked at a lot of records and stuff.
		And actually, there was really nothing that we could find to support that at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You started the book by saying, I make my living as a vacuum cleaner salesman.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You said you sold vacuums out here in Perrump, Nevada.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I love Perrump.
		We made some money out there.
		Thank you, Perrump.
		I miss you.
		I miss you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Got a lot of dust out here.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		We'll get a living for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, you go on to say, I've met a lot of good liars in my day.
		None of them are as good as my mother.
		Right.
		So, and you go on, some little tick would normally give a liar away.
		That's right.
		Most people lie.
		They give it away in some way or another.
		So your mom must have been a good poker player, I guess, huh?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Oh, the best.
		She, you know, we mentioned in the book not too far down that she had several aliases.
		And I remember one instance in Newport Beach, California.
		Some kind of social gathering.
		I'm not even sure what it was for.
		But there was about 15, 20 people who knew her under each of them a different alias.
		Now, most people would run away from a situation like that.
		She walked in that room and confronted every one of those people differently, remembering each alias she used with each one of those people.
		Wow.
		She was that sharp.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy smokes.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		It was hard for me not to admire that intelligence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did she ever work in a regular job that you remember?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		There was some stuff that she did long before I was born.
		She made a couple attempts, a little bit of reporting, a little bit of creative writing, which is ironic at this point.
		But in my memory, no.
		There's always been nice houses before the millionaire and everything, but never a visible means of income.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How long in your childhood did you go along with this without coming to your breakaway point?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At what age did you begin to really break away?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		12, 13 years old.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		When I got caught for stealing the surfboard, number one, that scared the tar out of me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much stealing had you helped her do before that?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I tell you, I'm ashamed to admit how much.
		Probably.
		When I was a kid, she taught me one of the lessons I learned from her as a kid, I wanted to buy a pair of walkie-talkies at a grocery store that was there in Palm Springs.
		So she gave me a quarter.
		It says, go get all the newspapers out of that.
		So I put the quarter and opened up and got all the newspapers out.
		And she says, you're a cute kid.
		You can sell those fast.
		And I sold every one of the newspapers, made the money for the walkie-talkies.
		She taught me that at six years old.
unidentified		You're kidding.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Oh, no.
		Don't do it.
		They'll catch you.
		It's not a good thing to do.
		no copycatcher please uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		but she just Yeah, she was.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		And like the question you asked me when I made my break, that surfboard incident was a pretty big deal.
		When I got to be 13, I was always ahead of my years.
		And I started standing up to her.
		And that was kind of a time where she kind of resented me more, too, because she thought that I would be what Kenny become, the protege, and her deal.
		I didn't want nothing to do with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you weren't the protege, you were.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I was the goody-goody, the saintly one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you aware at 13 or more how serious some of the crimes were?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Well, the crimes at that point were pretty serious.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		You know, stealing cars, you know, insurance fraud, arsons, things of this nature.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Arson?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		And we tried to count the amount of arsons that we were able to attribute to her.
		And we lost count at 12.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		12?
		At 12.
		The arsons for what?
		Insurance purpose or anger or what?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Insurance purpose for one.
		These are all her own homes, or homes that she either owned or leased.
		And also for the amount of civil cases that she got herself in, it was a great way to stall off the court seeing that she had a fire and that all the records were burned up in the fire, so you had to postpone the case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I suppose there was always the hope of an insurance check before everybody caught up to her.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		The only two fires I know of that she didn't get a check on was the last two.
		We had a house in Las Vegas that burned.
		In fact, that is very much implicated in the murder trial they're facing in Los Angeles.
		And also, we had a beautiful home in Hawaii right on the beach.
		The second time it burned, it burned to the ground.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't fire departments normally come and investigate fires looking for arson and that sort of thing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yes, they do.
		And those are the only two instances I know of where they didn't collect.
		And the second fire in Hawaii is also another missing person, which is a story in itself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, do you offhand know how she managed to start the fires that ultimately were not detected?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have any idea?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Well, I remember as a young boy, I was in one.
		I was walking out.
		We were in the car.
		She asked me to go upstairs and get a manila folder for her.
		I ran up the stairs and got it, and as I was walking out the front door, the house exploded.
		I was thrown out in the front of the yard.
		Yeah, she wasn't very good at what she did.
		I don't think she meant to blow the house up.
		I think she meant it to burn.
		But yeah, it's been going on forever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy smokes, Kent.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		A lot of smoke, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, just the whole thing.
		It's such a blowaway for me.
		You say in here that she had no problem fooling lie detectors.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Oh, she would not have a problem.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		She would not have a problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She must have been really good.
		I mean, how do you, I mean, after all, they take your pulse, right?
		Your breathing.
		They determine if you're sweating.
		They make all kinds of measurements to determine if you're lying.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		You mentioned before a good poker player.
unidentified		Oh, yes.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I'm convinced that the best poker player in the world, probably going to fool a lie detector test.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but you know, lie detector technicians tell you, uh-uh-uh, you can't beat it.
		You might be a good poker player, and you might not flinch, and you might not show any outward signs at all.
		I mean, be really good at that.
		But controlling the inside ones, they say, oh, no, can't do it.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Well, my mother's a walking contradiction.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		She was that good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She fooled him.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		She was in, you know, it sounds almost like someone you're in awe of again, but anyone who ever met her was in awe of her, of her intelligence, her charisma.
		In order to fully understand it, you'd have to be subjected to it.
		And I think the book we did a pretty good job of illustrating that.
		But there's no way to truly comprehend it until you were subjected to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what about the dynamics between you and your brother?
		How did that go other than the one incident you told me about?
		There must have begun to be a very big difference between the two of you.
		I mean, I'm with mom and you're not kind of deal.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Well, what happened with Kenny, and it's a sad situation.
		He's facing the death penalty out there.
		I mean, I've been assured by his attorneys that the California authorities will ask for the death penalty.
		And I'm going to do everything I can to prevent that from happening.
		That was actually a motivation for the book.
		There's circumstances here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't think he deserves the death penalty?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Kenny's guilty of what he's charged to.
		And he's serving a life term.
		And I believe that's a just deal.
		Before all this happened recently with the arrests and everything, and I found out how severe the crimes were, I probably would have been the guy pretty easy to talk into the death penalty.
		I thought, yeah, the eye-for-the-eye type deal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But there's obviously something mitigating here.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		There are circumstances here with Kenny that that would not serve justice.
		That would be vindictive.
		And the kid never had a chance.
		And, you know, another thing that I realize now about the death penalty is that there's a lot more victims involved than that.
		You know, I don't care who you are, how bad you are.
		Someone loves you.
		And having to deal with someone you love being executed is, where's the justice in that?
		And I've got three children who love these people.
		My kids haven't done nothing wrong.
		And I'm not sure how to explain that one to them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, we could spend the rest of the night arguing the death penalty.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		No argument.
		That's just my opinion.
		That's all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hear you.
		What I'm interested in is the dynamics between the two of you.
		There had to come a time, or many times even, when your brother was with your mom all the way and you weren't.
		and i i i how do they view that i mean did they view u_s_ Traitorous?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I was.
		I was the guy.
		Well, I'm not trying to defend Kenny, but what Kenny saw in me was a guy who went to work every day and had a mortgage to make.
		And this is after his father had died.
		This is when him and mom become the team, for lack of a better word.
		And I was trying to pull him out of her thrall.
		I saw what was coming.
		I did not expect the severity of it, but I knew he was going to end up in jail.
		It's going to be some kind of scam, some kind of arson deal, where he's going to be in jail for a long time.
		And it was a big conflict for my mother also.
		I tried to pull him out of it.
		It was a war, and I finally lost.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did your mom know you were working on him?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		It was the source of some of our biggest arguments.
		In the book, we go through that.
		With Kenny, this is something that happened from 10 years old to 23 years old.
		It didn't happen overnight.
		And there's a lot of influences.
		His father was a very paranoid man, unfortunately, mostly because of my mother, drank heavily, and had his clutches on him in his most formative years.
		So you have a man teaching this young guy, 10 to 13 years old, that the rest of the population are vultures out to get you, not to trust anybody.
		And then when mom gets out of jail for the slavery case, he was very rebellious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did they make the slavery case, by the way?
		I can see a lot of resolutions to that that would be short of slavery.
		That's really serious.
		How do they actually make that case on her?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, at the time, I was kind of wrestling with that myself because if it was me going to trial for something like that, it would probably be assault charges or something like that or labor charges.
		But there was also a $30 million lawsuit filed against my stepfather, who was very wealthy at the same time.
		There was tests, and I'm not sure exactly what the tests are for the trial.
unidentified		Yes.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		But this case met the test because they proved that their freedom was actually taken away from them by physical and emotional barriers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did your mom, did she actually physically restrain these maids?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		We had locks on the inside of our doors.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Locks on the inside.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And if a maid wanted to get out of the house, they could have.
		But they were emotionally afraid of also.
		My mother's, it's ironic, the two big convictions she's gotten so far in her life have been of her own making.
		In the maids case, she had written instructions to the tutors and to the maids saying things like, if you leave this house, the authorities will pick you up and put you in jail for the rest of your life.
		She used mental intimidation for that in her own writing.
		And in the Irene Silverman case, where she was convicted of murder without a body or any physical evidence, the evidence that convicted her and got her a life sentence was 14 notebooks of her own hand describing how to plan and plot the stealing of the mansion and committing the murder.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why would she commit all this to paper?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		You know, that's one of the things I had a hard time with.
		You know, here I said how intelligent she was, but she still did this.
		It was an obsession with her.
		She took notes on, I mean, she had an obsession with Star Trek.
		Me and her used to watch Star Trek together all the time.
		She actually took notes on Star Trek.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She took notes on Star Trek.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		So it was one of those obsessions that she had that just is unexplainable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you know that the long con on Silverman was coming?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		No, I did not see that one coming.
		My mother and brother and I broke it off about a year before this happened.
		They were actually living at my house.
		And mom had switched from using the Mexican people as maids to using homeless people.
		She'd go down to St. Vincent's or Shea Tree in Las Vegas and get people who were down under luck to live with us and bring them into our house when they were living with us.
		And I said, you know, we can't do this the way you're treating these people when they get sued.
		It's a horrible thing to do.
		It turned out to be a horrible argument.
		I saw that I lost the battle for Kenny.
		So that's where we broke it off.
		I didn't know about the Silverman or Kazm murders until I found out in the newspaper.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Kent.
		Hold on.
		Son of a Grifter is the book.
		My guest, Kent Walker, who wrote it with Mark Schoen, S-C-H-O-N-E, The Twisted Tale of Santa and Kenny Kimes, the most notorious con artists in America.
		A memoir by The Other Son.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 9, 2001.
		Coast to Coast AM from May
		I thought that we had made it to the top.
		9, 2001.
		I gave you all I had to give.
		Why did it have to stop?
		You've blown it all sky high by telling me a lie.
		Without a reason why, you've blown it all sky high.
		You've blown it all sky high.
		Our love had wings to fly.
		We could have touched the sky.
		You've blown it all sky high.
		You've blown it all sky high.
		You're listening to Arkbell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight's an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 9th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Kent Walker.
		He wrote a book about his brother and his mother.
		And you probably know the story.
		If you don't and you're listening, you will know the story.
		so I suggest you stay right where you are.
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of May 9, 2001, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Art Bell Back now to my guest, Kent Walker.
		Just an astounding story, something that most of us just simply can't relate to because we weren't raised that way.
		Somehow, he luckily escaped, but his brother didn't.
		And it's just an astounding story.
		Now, you know, most of us, the only way we can relate to what you're talking about for real tonight is the movies.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, you see it in the movies.
		That's it.
		Otherwise, we have no way to relate to what you're even talking about.
		And the real thing must be something else.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I can't think of any movie I've seen that comes close to this.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Now, CBS has done a movie that's going to be airing on the 20th.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it'll air on the 20th?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I saw the trailers for it, and I wasn't sure if I had missed it yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good, I haven't.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		What's it called?
		I'm not sure.
		Like Mother Like Son, I believe, and then the True Story of the Times is.
		And it's got Mary Tyler Moore playing my mother, and Gene Stapleton plays Irene Silverman.
		And with a cast like that, you're not going to go wrong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like Mother Like Son.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I believe that's it, right?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		There was a couple titles that were.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And who plays your mother?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Mary Tyler Moore.
unidentified		Mary?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pure?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I think they're going to change the movie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Girl Next Door, Tyler Moore?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, different theme for this movie, I think, though.
unidentified		I guess she wants to change her profile, huh?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I think she carried it off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe, actually, in a lot of ways, she's the perfect person for it because exactly of that image, huh?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe that's quite brilliant casting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does that work for you in terms of casting your mother, you know, an innocent, beautiful woman and the last thing you would ever expect from her?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		It fits.
		It definitely fits, without a doubt.
		I mean, probably one of mom's biggest gifts for being able to give away so much for so long was that she held the image that no one would think, hey, this person couldn't do that.
		Look at the image.
		So it fits real well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that the final long con that she engaged in to literally take over this Sojilite's life and her mansion, her place she lived in, every aspect of her life, and she was convicted for killing her, as you pointed out, even without a body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		and i i'd be interested to know how that can occur without a body i guess it can was fish amount of evidence That's one of the things that made this case so interesting in New York.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		There is no body, no physical evidence whatsoever.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		The conviction was done completely on circumstantial evidence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have any thoughts on where the body might be?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		You know, a strange thing did happen.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		My brother held a hostage when he was transferred to his prison in New York back in October.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		A Court TV reporter by the name of Maria Zone was interviewing him for a documentary for Court TV.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he grabbed her?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		He grabbed her and held a paper pen to her throat for four hours and 20 minutes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		And it was a strange thing because what had happened, I made a decision when I read that first newspaper article back in 1998 that I was not going to grace New York.
		I did not want to deal with the press.
		I did not want to deal with anything there.
		But I was worried about Kenny.
		I read then that he was put in solitary confinement for eight years is what his term is.
		But I also saw that my mother was put in solitary confinement.
		I guess the phone rang in her prison also, and they found a shank, which is a pen that's fashioned as a weapon.
		So I think she's the oldest person in New York's history to carry a shank at 65 years old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		65?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And so I went and visited Kenny.
		And he more or less confessed to the crimes.
		And we go into great detail about that in the book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In your visits to him in jail.
unidentified		Yes.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		What he wanted to do was try to make himself a deal to serve easier time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By turning on your mom?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, by turning on my mom and giving them information that they wanted.
		And then so I called some lawyer friends of mine who got the ball rolling for them.
		And then in November, it made the press again that Kenny confessed to where he put Irene Silverman's body and stuff.
		And it didn't make sense to me because he's given away all of his bargaining chips to serve the easier time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did he say he did with the body?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		He said exactly, well, according to news reports, now, when I visited him in January this year, he told me that he never said anything to the press or to the authorities.
		But according to what the authorities' news releases were in November, was that exactly what they thought is that he took the body to New Jersey and dumped it in a construction site.
		So that one, I don't know.
		I don't know if he confessed or not to that, to the authorities.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that he was telling you the truth or lying to you?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		My brother is my mother's son also, and he's a very good liar.
		But I really think he was telling me the truth this time.
		I really do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A construction site.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		The only reason why is because this case had received so much attention in the media.
		I mean, Dateline did two pieces on it.
		They were on Larry King Live after the conviction.
		I mean, it received a lot of attention.
		And it made the press for two days, and it was done.
		And it just seems to me that if something that profound happened to this case, that New York would have taken notice and said, okay, where's the body?
		Let's go find it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Particularly if he essentially told them where to look.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		And they never did.
		And Judge, I read one report, and I don't know how accurate this is, that the New York authorities were turned down by a judge to let Kenny go show them where the body was at.
		I still question that one also.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That wouldn't make sense at all, would it?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Once again, I don't like conspiracy theories, but just read the papers.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		It makes you wonder.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I was starting to say that everything you described about your early life, all the stolen stuff, the eventually stolen houses, the arson, all the rest of it, the maids, you know, it seems like your mom wanted this lifestyle all her life.
		And she got it, essentially, by grifting and stealing and doing everything you can do.
		And she sort of lived the life that she finally went after in this long con where she assumed a woman's identity.
		I can't even, I have lots of questions about that, but it just seems to me that this final act for which she's in prison for the rest of her life or worse now, along with your brother, was a final attempt to reach this life that she'd been trying to have all the way up until that point.
		Does that make sense?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		It does in a way, but you have to realize, my stepfather was worth about $20 million when they got married.
		So she had that lifestyle for 20 years of her life.
		I don't think that the situation with the Irene Silverman murder was the end.
		I think that was a means to the end.
		I think they had something else planned where they needed the money for it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have any idea what that was?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I don't.
		I have some theories and some ideas.
		Before that, to qualify this, they had a house in Las Vegas, Nevada.
		And David Kasden's murder is related to this because his name was on the deed.
		He didn't know it.
		And they'd taken out a loan for $280,000, I believe, on the home in David Kasden's name and cashed a check.
		And that's the motive for David Kasden's murder.
		Then they went to New York and pulled this deal off.
		And in 1996, they were in the Bahamas a lot.
		And there's a lot of banks down there where a lot of money goes to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		And I think that there's some surprises still left in the Bahamas.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I think that I have no proof on this or anything that, but from what I've learned in the research for the book and doing the media for the book, that there's some very interesting things going to be found out about Bahamas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, they always say follow the money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In this whole affair, is there a whole lot of money missing?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Well, as far as my stepfather's fortune, no.
		But as far as what happened in the Bahamas, I mean, there's a bank collapse and some very interesting facts.
		The FBI wanted to help the Bahamian officials in 1996 track mom down and Kenny down because of the missing banker, which is another deal that they're accused of at this point.
		And they refused.
		So, you know, I don't like to spend in speculation, but it's pretty hard to ignore sometimes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What has this done to you long term?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What has this done to you?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		As far as writing the book has been a pretty incredible experience.
		My wife and I were just talking about it tonight, in fact.
		God bless her.
		If it weren't for her, I might be sharing a cell with my brother.
		But, you know, it's opened up a lot of wounds.
		You know, when you research your past like this, I realize just how bad things were.
		When you're in the middle of it, you don't really realize it.
		I know.
		But I'm going to be okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wrote a book about my own life, and mine is nothing compared to yours.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I hear that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it was really, really painful to write.
		And I think most people, if they actually take the time to sit down and start writing about everything they've done in their life, or the high points or the low points or whatever, it's quite an experience.
		But for somebody like yourself, holy smokes.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I agree.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It must have been really rough.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you had a co-author.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I was fortunate I had a co-author because this poor guy, tell you what, he deserves a medal.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I think he'll probably get a license for psychiatry at this point now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If your mother is extradited to California, what does she face?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		The same thing as Kenny, the death penalty.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The death penalty.
		Right.
		You began to talk about why you thought your brother shouldn't be subjected to the death penalty.
		What about your mom?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		You know, I want to come to mom's defense because it's just what's been inbred to me for the last 38 years.
		But the way she is, I know she don't need defending.
		She'll find a way to stall the system.
		She's 66, 67 now.
		By the time that that sentence can even be carried out, she's lived an unnatural life already.
		I don't think she'll make it that long.
		Kenny's a different story.
		Here's a man in his mid-20s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So your mom will not be McVeigh and say, execute me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your mom will fight every legal battle until the end.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		My mother, I mean, this is a woman who escaped custody in Las Vegas when she was in her 50s.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Those guards got their hands full.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean escape from jail?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Escape from jail in Las Vegas.
		She was in custody awaiting trial for the involuntary servitude case, and she escaped jail.
		She escaped jail.
		How?
		I have to fill up an hour of your show.
		It's in the book, but it was a scam.
		It was actually a scam.
		She scammed the medical part of the jail and a guard, and she was free for three to four days.
		And I was instrumental, and I think I was at least, in her being apprehended.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In what way?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if we get something here you don't want to talk about.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Oh, there's in the book.
		But we made it pretty clear.
		My father and I, or my stepfather and I, had pulled into our driveway.
		And we've been trailed by the feds for months, and so having a tail was no big deal.
		We kind of get used to that after that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I suppose they trailed you thinking you would lead them to your brother or your mom or both.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is for the slavery trial.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		This is 1986.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why would they bother tailing you?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Well, because I was with my stepfather, and he was also a defendant in the case.
		I was named an unindicted co-conspirator for the case, so they just had their attention.
		I wasn't even there when the crimes were being committed.
		But anyway, we got cuffed.
		We got yanked out of the car and cuffed, and we had no idea what was going on.
		They said that Shantae Comes had escaped.
		And what had happened is that she had done her homework and exhibited every type of ailment she possibly could to get her put into the hospital.
		Once she got into the hospital, she, I don't know where she got the money from, probably from my stepfather now, bribed a guard to take the cuffs off.
		They opened the door and let her walk free.
unidentified		Wow.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, she was the top news story for the next couple nights.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She just walked right out of there.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Well, she ran out of there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Knowing your mother, I'm surprised she was even caught.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		It was a fluke.
		Actually, the Irene Silverman deal, there was a fluke.
		They got caught for that.
		They weren't picked up for a murder charge.
		They had bought a car from Utah with a check they thought was good that bounced.
		That's what started this whole thing.
		If it weren't for one mistake that she made, which was bouncing a check for a car that she bought, there real good chance they would have got away with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that's another thing I want to ask about.
		How can you possibly kill somebody, take their identity, begin to use their money and credit and home and everything?
		How can you get away with that?
		I mean, how?
		Did she look enough like this woman to get away with it?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, actually what happened is everything needed to get possession of the mansion was taken care of before the actual disappearance of Iron Silverman.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I don't think mom was going to go in there and try to take her identity.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		She has been called a master of disguise by the FBI and several other law enforcement agencies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you didn't think she really was just going to begin living the life of this woman?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't see that.
		My crystal ball tells me that they had a bank ready to give them a sizable loan for this mansion, and they were going to take the money and run and go do something bigger in the Bahamas.
		That's what I was population also.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess then you believe they were banking money in the Bahamas for something even bigger?
unidentified		Yes.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		That's my belief at this point from what I found out so far.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is so incredible.
unidentified		it gets better so your so anyway um...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		again if she is extra guided no doubt eventually did to california shall face the uh...
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		And like I said, I don't want her to be executed, and I've explained the reasons why before.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		But once again, the way she has been able to manipulate the legal system thus far, she'll make it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She'll die of natural causes Before that happens, you obviously still love your brother and your mom.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		You know, I have no apologies to make for that.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		You know, we talk about all the bad stuff here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I don't think anybody would expect apologies for it, no matter what happens.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		The thing is, having everything I've said, she was a very fun mom to have.
		I had birthday parties that would be the envies of any kid.
		We share a story in the book where when I was 10 years old, I got beat up by a 13-year-old.
		And you're that age, that's a couple of weight classes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		And I come home, mom sees me, bloodied up and crying, and I told her what happened.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I take her to the boy's house, and long story short, she picked up a hose and beat the hell out of his father.
unidentified		What?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		She picked up a hose.
		The hose was by the front door.
		She picked up the end of the hose and beat the crap out of this guy because he said, well, boys will be boys.
		That kid never picked on me again after that.
		You feel pretty safe in that type of protection.
		It was good stuff also.
		Even as an adult, in researching for Son of the Grifter, people who were in Shante's life are friends.
		You couldn't help but to walk away with the feeling that they didn't so much feel the loss of the true victims, they felt the loss of Shantae from their lives.
		It was kind of spooky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You said your mom looked like Elizabeth Taylor, huh?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you how much.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		In the late 70s, my mom and I were sitting in a...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		Let's pick up on this when we return.
		Look like Elizabeth Taylor.
		This is some story, isn't it?
		Son of a Grifter is the book, and we'll talk about how you can get it coming up.
		Bookstore is nationwide, of course.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 9, 2001.
		But she lets me down every time.
		Can't make her mine.
		She's no one's lover tonight.
		With me she'll be so inviting.
		I want her all for myself.
		Oh, temptation has.
		Looking through my mouth, oh.
		With temptation has.
		You've got to love me.
		You've got to love me.
		She doesn't give you time for questions.
		As she locks up your arm in her.
		And you follow to your sense of which direction completely disappears.
		By the blue top walls near the market stalls.
		There's a hint in the she leads you to.
		These days she says I feel my life just like a river running through.
		The year of the cat.
		Radio Networks presents Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight's program originally aired May 9th 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is some story to listen to.
		Can you imagine, can you even, in your wildest imagination, think about growing up in a family like Kent did?
		I'll tell you, I've always been a sucker for sacks.
unidentified		Big time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll get back to Kent Walker.
unidentified		son of a grifter his book in a moment Now we take you back to the night of May 9th, 2001, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kind of look like Elizabeth Taylor.
		Well, there are women who have the power and the power to completely, utterly transform anybody in their presence into anything they want.
		Now, most women don't use that power.
		And I've heard it said that God help men if most women ever learn the power they really have if they wish to use it in the manner that Santa apparently did.
		Is that fair, Kent?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		God help them.
		You're right.
		It's a very good description.
		She had a power over men that was just legendary.
		Every man that was in her life that I ever met was enthralled.
		And just enthralled.
		There's a story I want to tell you about just how much she does resemble Elizabeth Taylor.
		In the late 70s, we were in Hollywood at a bar called The Cock and Bull.
		I think it's gone now.
		And two people came up to her and asked her for her autograph, thinking that she was Elizabeth Taylor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Within 20 minutes, people from the street were rushing to the bar.
		I mean, it was a scene.
		The manager had to grab us, get security, and take us out the back door because people thought this was Elizabeth Taylor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		here comes a big one that maybe you probably don't have an answer for.
		I mean, your mom was really basically already rich.
		Right?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Well, it depends on what point in life you're talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or she had been rich.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		She had been rich.
		Like if we're talking about the 90s after my stepfather had passed away, she was rich.
		If my retirement is half as good as what she had, I'd be set.
		I'd be a pretty happy guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, exactly.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		So she considered herself poor.
		She had this, there was never enough.
		The one thing that was constant with my mother is that she'd never be satisfied.
		Never be satisfied, whether it be relationships, whether it be money, whether it be alcohol, anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mentioned that she wrote down things, that that was one of her big downfalls, that she took notes.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		That's what got her convicted.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A Los Angeles fast blaster says, Arn, I'm a psychologist, and I know that obsessive note-taking is, in fact, an obsessive-compulsive disorder that they can't, people who do this can't help it.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, I've got letters that mom has sent me since she's been incarcerated, and you take the same paper that my kids take to school to do their homework on, and she fills all the lines, but then she fills all the margins, and then in between the margins.
		You just can't put enough in there.
		And that's what it's like having a phone conversation with her.
		And she takes up all the oxygen in the room.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now that she's really doing a hard time and maybe even facing the death penalty, what's her psychological state?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		She'll never quit.
		She will never give up, ever.
		Her last breath will be that this is a huge conspiracy against her, that she was victimized by a corrupt system.
		After they got convicted, I'm not sure if they were sentenced yet or not, but they were actually on Larry King Live for an hour.
		That's how strong she can be.
		She got herself from Rikers Island in New York jail on the Larry King Live show for an hour, a full hour.
		This is the middle of an election year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I turned on the TV and there she was.
		That's classic Shantae proclaiming her innocence, saying how New York had framed her, and just was absolutely incredible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again, how did she get convicted minus the evidence of a body or any other hard evidence?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did that occur?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		It was all circumstantial evidence, but it was pretty convincing circumstantial evidence.
		There was 14 notebooks that were introduced to the jury, and things like GetIS, which would mean Irene Silverman's Social Security number, talk about getting stun guns, handcuffs, duffelbacks, things of this nature.
		The way that they infiltrated her life was suspicious.
		My brother had given her $6,000 cash to rent an apartment in her beautiful mansion under an alias.
		His behavior before she disappeared, like there was a camera in the entryway.
		There was no videotape hooked up to it, but he didn't know that.
		He would hide his face when he walked by that.
		Very suspicious behavior.
		A lot of witnesses were for that.
		It was a lot of circumstantial evidence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, yes, people can be convicted of murder, indeed, on circumstantial evidence, but it's got to be really overwhelming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Apparently, in this case, with the notes, it was overwhelming enough, huh?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		The jury found it overwhelming.
		And I'll be honest with you.
		I remember it was a pretty scary time of my life.
		And, you know, July 8th, 1998, I had no doubt in my mind that they were guilty, but I also thought they might get away with it.
		It was a pretty scary time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You thought they might get away with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, they might win.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I'm still surprised they got to conviction sometimes.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		For every arrest my mother's ever had, there's countless crimes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many might that be?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Her arrests?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Her rap sheet is as long as my arm and your leg.
		It goes back to the 50s.
		Credit card fraud.
		I don't think she ever got convicted of arson, but she'd been arrested so many times.
		She got arrested on my birthday one time.
		Countless times have she been arrested, but they rarely would lead to anything serious because of money, my stepfather's money.
		I mean, I'm sorry, but justice for people with money is different than people without it.
		And even the convictions would not even lead to too much.
		The only time there were ever serious consequences was for the Mays case and the Irene Silverman murder at this point.
		And she's gotten away with so much for so long, I thought they had a better than even chance of getting away with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think they would have done had they gotten away with it?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Once again, all they can do is spin in speculation.
		I think there's a story in the Bahamas.
		I think there's something to do with the banks down there or something.
		I don't know why, but just when we're researching the book and what I've learned since we've been doing the media for the book, I got a feeling they were going for something bigger.
		I really do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so there's probably a bunch of money down there in some sort of account.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		If there is, I'm not looking.
		I don't know.
		They didn't get to finish the crime, thank God.
		Well, unfortunately, Iron Silverman is missing and dead, but they didn't get the money from the mansion.
		They needed some big money for something.
		And I don't know what it is, but I think they're going after big money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So your brother, in detail, described to you what he did with Silverman's body.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		He did not describe in detail.
		He did, we describe in the book.
		The way I put it to him, on the plane out to New York, I talked to him.
		I had a plan to do whatever I could to help him the best.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I still love my mother, but my brother, I viewed him as a victim in this situation, and I wanted to do whatever I could to improve his life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		you grew up with him, so sure.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and I feel partly responsible for where he's at because he had a bad example, and the big brothers stuck around also.
		And he told me that every day during the trial, people, the authorities would say, tell us where Irene Silverman's at, and we'll make Los Angeles go away.
		And I asked him, are you ready to do that?
		And he nodded yes.
		That was a confession.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So all of that's off the table and forgotten now, right?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure what you mean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, in other words, whether he would point out now where the body is or not, nobody even cares or wants to know, according to what, if I've heard you correctly.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		With the media, like, I'm not sure, according to Kenny, he did not tell the authorities that information.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Now, the media says that he did, so I'm not sure what to make of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You must have been interviewed by the FBI, I would imagine.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		That's an interesting story also.
		The first two days when this first made the national media, I had over 50 news agencies from around the world just jump on us.
		They attacked my home, my business.
		I don't mean attack, but it felt like an attack.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Three days after that, two police officers with Las Vegas Metro came to my office and started questioning me.
		They asked me why would these two people in New York question me so much or call my number so much.
		They were calling like every five minutes trying to get me to go out there to help them.
		They didn't know who I was.
		When I said I'm Shantae Kimes' son, one of the guy dropped his pen.
		He was so shocked.
		And there was a picture of my mother right over his shoulder.
		And that really scared me.
		They came in saying that they were there on behalf of the NYPD, LAPD, FBI, CIA, IRS, I mean every acronym I've ever heard of.
		And here I just had every news agency I've ever heard of and then some in my face.
		And here's the representative of all the law enforcement.
		They didn't know who I was.
		So it was pretty scary stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How long have you been married?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Been married for 17 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		17 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So your wife knew, probably always knew this moment could come.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Well, I learned at a young age to hide things, to keep it inside.
		When I was younger, when I told people things that was going on, they thought I was a troubled young man.
		And once again, I love my mother.
		I had fun with her and my family.
		We had a lot of good times.
		I sheltered my wife from the bad stuff.
		When the media cramped on us and the severity of this situation hit us, it was hard for her.
		She didn't know all this stuff.
		And she was angry with me for knowing that they were guilty.
		And she was more angry with me because the only proof I had was all the stuff I never told her before.
		So my wife deserves a medal.
		And if it weren't for her, I would be, I mean, she saved my life without a doubt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then, to some degree, she was surprised.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Oh, she was very surprised, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, that's really something to drop on anybody.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I tell you, like I said, I get a lot of regrets.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		And what my wife and kids have been through is one of the biggest, without a doubt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How has your family done with this?
		Your children, your wife?
		Obviously, you just said your wife has done fabulously, and she has.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		She stood by me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Everybody would agree.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		My family stood by me.
		It's hurt us.
		There's going to be issues to deal with.
		The normity of this case is not something that most grandchildren or nephews or nieces have to deal with, but we'll get through it.
		They're good kids.
		I've got a beautiful wife who I love, and I want to get them through this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your mom is now older.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The looks you talked about that she had earlier fade as they do with all of us.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Although I will say at 60, she didn't look 60.
		She was a sexy six-year-old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nevertheless, she's getting older.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'm sure you don't think that at any point she's going to want Or as you said, will she to the very last moment say it was all a conspiracy and all a lie?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Will she ever tell her story?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I wish you would.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I'd be the first person to buy that book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I bet you would.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		It's not going to happen.
		The Shantae Kimes of today is not the same person that I grew up with.
		I think she has put herself in the little spot that she believes everything she's saying now.
		I think she honestly believes that she's a victim of a conspiracy.
		I think she believes that Irene Silverman is still alive.
		In a way, it's sad.
		I really believe she has lost her mind, but she's still intelligent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ken, are you 100% sure in your own mind that Silverman is dead, that your mother did kill Silverman with your brother?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'm absolutely sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're absolutely sure.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I have no doubt.
		I had no doubt in 1998, and after my visit with my brother, it just removed any glimmer of a doubt there would.
		I wish I could say yes, I could doubt that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then in believing that, how many others do you believe she's killed?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Three.
		I believe three.
		I believe, well, David Kasden, I have no doubt about that.
		I wish I could say I had a doubt, but I don't.
		I know they did it.
		I know them too well.
		The Bahamian banker who has disappeared.
		I have no doubt about that.
		And then there's a lawyer who was missing since the early 90s who was responsible for the second time the Hawaii House burned down.
		I didn't even know his name at the time.
		But that was another time to try to turn her into the authorities.
		And I have no doubt that she was responsible for that also.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know how those murders were committed?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I don't.
		I know that Kazan was shot in the back of the neck and his body was found in a dumpster.
		That was just from the research for the book.
		But the other three, there's no bodies to find out what happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you have a sense even after you had left that your mother was capable of not just, you know, the short con, but murder?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you ever think that?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, I did at times, but then, you know, I found a way to forget her.
		I went to the authorities when I was in high school.
		I was in what I thought was a protective custody.
		And I gave them everything.
		I gave them the arsons.
		There was no murders at the time.
		But, you know, the maids were there, the arsons, the fur coats that she's stolen, insurance scams.
		I gave them everything.
		For three days or two days, I spilled everything on her, and nothing happened.
		And then in the early 80s, she tried to get me to put her a guy away.
		I went and warned him instead.
		I called the police on that.
		Nothing happened.
		You know, it's and you try to make excuse for people to chill up.
		And then the good times.
		You know, the bad times is probably one day out of 30.
		The other 29 days were awesome.
		We had a great time.
		Things were not normal.
		They're actually over the top.
		But it was a fun place to be, you know, because Colin City Casinos living like a millionaire.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So Las Vegas provided the kind of atmosphere that was just right for your mom?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		You know, we lived in some great places.
		We lived in Newport Beach, the Bahamas, Hawaii.
		But Las Vegas was made for mom.
unidentified		She was in her glory in Las Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, everybody's looking for the fast buck in Las Vegas, so there's lots of marks.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		She liked the marks, but it wasn't just that, is the attention.
		She loved attention.
		You know, most con artists don't want attention.
		She loved attention.
		She wore all white.
		She wore a fake diamond on her hand the size of a grape.
		If that was real, she would have to have security guards around her.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be the Elizabeth Taylor image.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		That's what it was.
		And she loved to be the center of attention.
		In Las Vegas, you got a little bit of a flash and flash a couple bucks.
		not too hard to do.
unidentified		How do you...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How's this book being greeted?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Very well.
		You know, you're talking to a guy who did everything he could to avoid the press three years ago.
		And I was nervous about this.
		But it is being very well received.
		The reviews have all been awesome.
		They think it's well written.
		They're surprised by the content.
		I've heard terms like haunting and surprising and stuff like that.
		Of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That surprises you, huh?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm very happy with the way the book is being received.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, the people say it's haunting and that it's horrific and all the rest of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kind of surprises you?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I'm not comfortable with it, but I'm glad that we could give them a piece of literature that they've spent a few bucks on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When did the book hit the stores?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		The 24th of last month.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it's brand new then?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		It's brand new.
		It's doing pretty well.
		We're proud of it.
		We're very proud of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want to ask you right here, we're at sort of a juncture point, and I would love for you to be able to take some calls from the audience.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I'd love to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You really want to stay around?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		That'd be fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Done deal.
		Kent Walker is my guest.
		His book is Son of a Grifter.
		You can go to my website.
		We've got a link.
		You can get it on Amazon.com with their incredible discount, of course.
		The Twisted Tale of Santa and Kenny Kimes, the most notorious con artists in America, a memoir by The Other Son.
unidentified		You're listening to Arc Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 9, 2001.
		I don't care of what I am.
		It's all clear to me now.
		My heart is on fire.
		My hope like the wind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Dr. Dean.
unidentified		I'm Dr. Dean.
		You're as cold as ice.
		You're willing to sacrifice our love.
		You never take advice.
		Someday you'll pay the price, I know.
		I've seen it before, it happens all the time.
		You're both little girl, you leave the world behind.
		You're digging for gold, you're blowing away.
		A fortunate feeling, but someday you'll pay.
		You're as cold as ice.
		You're willing to sacrifice our love.
		You're as cold as ice.
		Someday you'll pay price, I know.
		I've seen it before, it happens all the time.
		You're rolling the door, you leave the world behind.
		You're digging for gold, you're blowing away.
		A fortunate feeling...
		You're listening to I Fell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 9th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You'd have to be cold as ice.
unidentified		Cold as Santa.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's really cold to do the things that have been done.
		My guest is Kent Walker, and he's the other brother.
		Santa and Kenny Kynes are in jail for life and may face the death penalty.
		The both of them were talking with the brother.
		It's an amazing thing to go through.
		If you have any questions for Kent, we're going to open the lines now and allow you to ask whatever you would like.
		And there probably are no really stupid questions in this category because most of us simply have no life that Kent led early and that his brother and mom led up and still, in a way, lead, though they're not actively out committing crimes within the prison system.
		I'm sure that actually that's a pretty good question, which I'll ask in a moment.
		But there are various levels of hierarchy in a prison.
		And I would imagine that already Asante has made her way through many of those levels, to be sure.
		So, at any rate, if you have any questions, the opportunity to ask them is coming up next.
unidentified		Thank you.
		You're listening to Arkbell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 9, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again, back to Kent Walker.
		Kent, you're back on the air again, and that's one thing I want to touch on before we go to the phones, and that is in prisons, there is indeed a hierarchy.
		There's a real pecking order that goes on in prisons.
		Given your mother's history, I would think that she's already well established in that pecking order, or is she still in solitary?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		They're both in solitary.
		Well, mom is in solitary still for another month or two.
		Kenny, he's kind of the star at the jail he's at in Los Angeles, in maximum security, pretty much a lockdown all the time and stuff.
		So he really doesn't have the contact with the inmates to be able to pull that off.
		One thing that was interesting, though, after the conviction that made the papers in New York, that mom had been caught trying to conspire with other inmates to get an escape attempt going.
		So once she's in the general population, I'm sure she'll be able to pull her stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you think she'd have at least an even chance, even in maximum security, of escaping?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that now with her history being revealed and so much going on with the media, I'm sure that any authorities that have her in custody would take the proper precautions.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I would hope so, at least.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		God, what you have lived through.
		All right, let's let a few people ask questions.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Kent Walker and Art Bell.
		Good morning.
unidentified		I'm a Canadian from Newcastle, Ontario.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yes, and I just listen to you, Art, almost every night here while I'm making donuts.
unidentified		Now, my question is, being Mother's Day and the severity of his mother's crime, has he ever thought about possibly getting somebody to talk, maybe she's possessed or something like that, that maybe there's a devil inside of her that's causing her to do all these things in the past?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I suppose all kinds of things would go through your mind.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		It's an interesting question.
		We cover this in the book in Son of a Grifter.
		Donald Gentile is an attorney that represented her during the maze trial.
		He's a very formidable attorney.
		He's an awesome wordsmith.
		He was ranked in the top ten in Town and Country Magazine for criminal attorneys.
		And I asked him to help me out when this first started.
		Before he would represent me, I had to answer one question from him.
		And the question was, does your mother worship the devil?
		This is a guy who represents some pretty shady characters.
		Then I also spoke with another attorney who represented him before by the name of Howard Weitzman.
		He is the one who got DeLorean off the cocaine charges way back when.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		And I asked him, he represented my father during the MAIDS trial.
		And I asked him, have you ever met anyone as diabolical or evil as my mother?
		And he thought for a minute, and he said, Charles Manson.
		And he was part of that deal.
		The last attorney I spoke with was Oscar Goodman, who was now the mayor of Las Vegas and known as the mob attorney.
		I mean, that's what everyone calls him.
		And Dominic was in a conversation with Oscar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was Oscar's earlier incarnation.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And said, Dominic says to Oscar that Shantae Kynes is the most evil woman I've ever met.
		And Oscar says that's what I admired the most about her.
		I mean, so there's three very powerful attorneys who've seen more than anyone's ever going to see.
		And they made the press reports like fluff pieces.
		And I don't believe that she's possessed.
		I just think that she was just out of control and that she was selfish in a way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you don't believe in an external evil influencing a specific person virtually possessing them, that sort of thing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I believe that people who are possessed allow themselves to be possessed.
		My mother's strength, for lack of a better word, is definitely internal.
		I mean, evil spirits and all that, I've heard a lot of talk about that.
		I don't know.
		I don't know.
		I mean, it would be a pretty exhausting process to be able to keep that inside you for 40, 50 years, I would think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, I'll say.
		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Kent Walker.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Eric calling from Winnipeg, Manitoba.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Well, excellent show.
		It has a very spooky and surreal quality to it.
		It's quite amazing.
		I wanted to ask your guest, based on everything he said, I'm very convinced that his mother fits into one of two categories.
		And I wondered whether or not any of the psychologists or psychiatrists ever described his mother as being either a sociopath or a psychopath.
		Having been subjected to a PCLR test or evaluation.
		A psychopathic checklist revised.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I'm not a doctor, so there's a little bit of Greek there for me.
		I can tell you this, though.
		She was examined by many doctors, many doctors.
		And the problem is this.
		My mother would sit down and figure out, okay, what symptoms should I show to help to help lessen my sentence?
		And so she could fool the best of them.
		Like I said, I've spoken with a lot of behavioral therapists.
		I've talked to people who would know.
		And I've not found an answer that I feel comfortable with yet.
		And none of the answers they can give, they would always say, well, you know, with your mother, she is so unique that it's almost impossible to tell because you can't tell if she's lying or not.
		So it's one of those questions that I wish I could give you an answer to, but as far as I'm concerned, it's just what she is at this point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, it's interesting.
		On this program, we've dealt with the question of evil, you know, whether there really is an external evil or not, whether it really is inside singly the person involved and there's no external influence at all.
		We've had that discussion a million times, and I've used, as an example of what I thought was pure evil, Manson.
		You know, I've seen interviews with Manson.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the intensity is definitely there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In jail, and it's just all over him.
		I mean, you can't look at the fellow without seeing it.
		It's just, it's all over him.
		But it's a little different, but still the same, you say, with your mom.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Well, the difference with mom is that she, you know, you look at Manson and you feel that evil.
		I have the same experience as you do.
		And I don't like to judge people, but I feel that's the same thing, looking at pictures of him.
		My mother came across, initially at least, as angelic almost.
		People loved her.
		She had charisma.
		She was fun to be with.
		I don't care what kind of mood you were in, if she wanted you to be in a good mood, you'd be euphoric instantaneously.
		If you wanted to feel fear, she could do that to you.
		She can crawl inside you and just manipulate your emotions any way she wanted to.
		Now, if that's an evil trait, then she's evil.
		If that's a good trait, then she's good.
		It depends what the end result is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we know in this case.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Evil.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, usually television over-dramatizes everything, and it sounds like in this movie, whatever they do, CBS does with a movie, like Mother Like Son, whatever they do with this movie, they're not going to be able to overdo it, are they?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		They're not going to be able to overdo it.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		And the CBS movie did a great job, I think, of capturing some of the emphasis of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you seen it?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I saw a little bit of it, and Mary Tottermore did a great job.
		Gene Stapleton, I mean, I think there's going to be some awards for this movie.
		It's going to be a big deal.
		There's talk of a feature on my book at this point because it's two totally different stories, whereas CBS dealt mainly with the Irene Silverman murder and a little bit of the past, whereas the book is going to cover in-depth a course of 36 years.
		So you haven't heard the last of Shantae Kimes, hopefully.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know you're very much in demand right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're doing a zillion interviews, aren't you?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm having more fun on this one, though.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		This one's been kind of fun.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thanks.
		Well, we can take it.
		Radio's a little easier, and being able to be on the phone instead of in a stupid television studio where everything is so scripted and tight.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Big difference.
		No makeup.
		I don't miss the makeup a bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
		No makeup.
		And there's just something too damn structured about television.
		I don't like it.
		So there is a difference.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Kent Walker.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, this is Rick out in Honolulu.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Rick.
unidentified		Hi, I have a question for Kent.
unidentified		Kent, do you recall a time frame for your mother's presence in Hawaii in the early 70s?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		I went to high school in Hawaii, in fact.
		We covered that in the book deeply.
unidentified		Well, yeah, I think I'm a customer for your book here.
unidentified		I'm glad to see that it's published and you've done a wonderful thing in bringing out this amazing story.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		That was very kind of you to say.
unidentified		Thank you.
		There were a series of incidents that I had with a woman that I believe may have been your mother in some apartments along the Alawai Canal, and it involves a bunch of women that my friends and I would see her with, that she seemed to have control over.
		There was a situation where they were the maids.
		They were maids in an apartment complex.
		And I wondered if, I've always wondered if it was your mother.
		I became aware of the story after the arson incidents out here in Hawaii Kai.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		On the four walk house, right.
		I know that there was a situation, and it's been a long time since I lived in Hawaii, but Wailaiki Ridge, my father had specced a couple houses up there, and mom had camped a couple of the maids up there, and I believe that was part of the slavery case in Las Vegas.
		I'm not sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
unidentified		It reached back to.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I got to tell you, what you're telling me kind of rings a bell, but I've been hearing so much, I'm not going to commit to anything unless I know absolutely for sure, and I can't say that.
unidentified		All right.
		Well, hey, good luck to you.
		Can't have an amazing story.
		I know it's going to be with you a long, long time, no matter what happens, and I wish you the best of luck.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate it.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		Did you ever have any interaction with these maids?
		I mean, were you at all aware of how they were being manipulated?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Well, when I was a kid, they were like big sisters.
		I mean, it's kind of interesting.
		We illustrated in Son of a Griffith also, how that even escalated.
		In Palm Springs, you know, when I was a young grade schooler, they'd go home for the weekends.
		Mom would even go find them boyfriends and stuff.
		I mean, they would have dinner with us.
		We're like big sisters.
		Once my stepfather came into the picture, my mother became more controlling.
		And it became, that's when I started wearing uniforms and working the longer hours.
		It probably wasn't quite as severe as what it escalated to.
		Once I moved to Hawaii, I mean, I used to steal money out of my stepdad's pockets on several occasions and send them back to the mainland because they were so unhappy.
		Then once I went into the military, where most of the charges for the, or all the charges for the involuntary service that took place, you know, they talked about being burned with irons and had hot water borne torture.
		Yeah, basically, you know, in a controlling fashion.
		And at first, when the maids case first hit the media and when it first transpired, I didn't want to believe it because I had the memories of what things were like when I was in the home.
		I just thought it was, you know, because of the civil case, you know, trying to get all the money.
		But, you know, researching the book now and retrospect, yeah, stuff all did happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Kent Walker.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Hi.
		Yes, I'll go ahead and say this, then I'll hang up and try to listen, and maybe he could go through the bottom of the hour to explain something, because I do identify.
		It's not at that level.
		Oh.
		Hello?
		Younger.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		We're here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		Okay.
		Yes.
		It's not at that level.
		They don't have the money, but I come from a very dysfunctional family.
		I'm in my early 40s.
		I was the middle of seven.
		Three older ones gone, thank God, wherever they are.
		Three younger ones in their 30s today.
		This sociopathic manipulation is terrifying.
		And I identify two of them.
		One is in prison now, who I broke it off with.
		One has been through prison in 92 when I saw him.
		I'm absolutely convinced he attempted to get me into a dark back room and was going to kill me to get the military insurance money.
		And one other younger one, not so much trouble, but sociopathic manipulation, name changes, just things like you're saying about your mother.
		What steps should I take to protect myself from these three terrorists, younger terrorists, so that never again I have to deal with them, authorities or whatever, just so I can protect myself so the rest of my life I can be in peace.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I hope you find that peace.
unidentified		Do you have any suggestions?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		You know, one of the main motivations for this book, we have three rules.
		One, be honest and truthful.
		Two, no one else get hurt or be victimized.
		Three, hopefully provide a beacon of hope for people out there who are in something like this.
		If you love them, it's a tough deal.
unidentified		No, I can't even waste time to attempt to do that.
unidentified		It's too dangerous.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Well, then get out.
		But this book's going to address people who are involved with situations where they're loving people who are unlovable.
		And the only advice I can give you is do the right thing.
		And when you've got the strength to run, run like hell and don't look back.
		And when you get out of it, it's not necessarily going to be better.
		It's going to be damage control.
		But in your situation, I think maybe you should find some help and address it and get out of that situation.
		You have that much fear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When your brother and your mother eventually are out of isolation, will you go see them?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I spoke with my brother this morning.
		Since he's been extradited to California, his security is much lighter.
		And I talk with him often.
		I made the commitment to visit him at least once a month.
		I'm the only person in the world who cares for him at this point, besides my family, and he's going to have that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so what does he say to you when you talk to him?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What does he say to you now?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I think he's starting to get it.
		He's starting to realize what his big brother went through for him.
		He's starting to realize the mistakes he's made.
		I think there's a little bit of shame.
		I'm not sure if there's regret yet or remorse, but I think it's coming.
		It's going to take a while.
		But the best way to put it, and I don't mean to oversimplify it, but it's the best way to put it, is I think he's finally getting it.
		He's finally got it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Beginning to.
		If there's no regret or remorse yet, then he doesn't really have it yet.
		But you're saying you're starting to see something.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		It's open.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The door is open, huh?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder if the public would agree with you that your brother deserves some kind of break because he was brought up into this.
		He was born into this exactly the way you were.
		But, you know, the public would argue two ways.
		They would say, sure, we feel sorry for him because he was virtually trained into this by his own mother.
		But then again, the argument would be made, so were you.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Well, you know, that argument, it's an answer I don't like.
		We didn't write this book to paint me out as any kind of hero in it like that.
		Kenny had one misfortune, that he had an older brother that was still there.
		And, you know, I was a bad example in that respect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold on there for just a moment.
		We're at the bottom of the hour, and this, too, seems to fit like a glove.
		Something about if the glove fits.
		I'm Art Bell.
		And we're talking with Kent Walker, who has written Son of a Grifter.
		It's in bookstores.
		It's about to be a movie.
		It's everywhere.
		Stay right there.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 9, 2001.
		Travel the world and the seven seas.
		Everybody's looking for something.
		Some of them want to use you.
		Some of them want to get used by you.
		Some of them want to abuse you.
		Some of them want to be abused.
		Sweet dreams are made of this.
		Who am I to disagree?
		Travel the world.
		Sweet dreams are made of this.
		Who am I to disagree?
		I travel the world and the seven seas.
		Everybody's looking for something.
		Some of them want to use you.
		Some of them want to get used by you.
		Some of them want to abuse you.
		Some of them want to be abused.
		All the world and the seven seas.
		Everybody is looking for something.
		You're listening to Arkbell Somewhere in Time on Premiere Radio Networks.
		Tonight's an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 9th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I brought this song back as bumper music because I listened to the words and I thought, oh boy, does this ever fit?
		You know, for every Santa Times out there, there's got to be a million people that are ready marks.
		And I mean, literally, one to a million.
		And maybe those odds are a little bit low, actually, when you think about it.
		Anyway, more in a moment.
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of May 9, 2001, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, once again, back to Kent Walker.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kent, have you begun to see your book in bookstores yet?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, in fact, it was kind of fun in New York from when we did the first publicity tour.
		It was kind of a neat feeling to see your book in the window on Fifth Avenue.
		It was a heck of a sense of accomplishment, to be honest with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and as you pointed out earlier, I'm sure writing this was horrible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, to go back and to relive all this.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's the joke I tell my friends, if I'd known I was going to write a book on my life, I would have taken better notes.
		You had to dig in pretty deep.
		And Mark and I drive-bys of my past.
		And I tell you, one interesting experience.
		In Palm Springs, we had a house, it was on Twin Palms.
		And this house was a lot of events.
		I saw my mother throw a knife at my father, and he was actually sticking his arm in this house.
		And the house was vacant.
		And I guess I grifted.
		I probably broke a law.
		But I walked into the house.
		The doors were all open.
		I was in complete disarray, tatters.
		Look at it, I'm about ready to be torn down.
		And I had to deal with the emotions that came.
		I didn't have the memories yet.
		And I think it was the closest thing to an apparition I'll ever see in my life because I felt every one of the fears and every one of the sadnesses, but I didn't have the memory to equate it to for a few minutes.
		And it kind of shook me up.
		It kind of shook me up a little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's go back to these calls.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Kent Walker.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Thank God you're back, Art.
		That's all I have to say.
		I'm so grateful.
		Ken, by the way, I'm from Gainsville, Florida, and my name is Susanna.
		And what I called to talk about was the fact that there's an extended member of my family that I was close in age to, except he was a male, and I was related to the wife.
		And he was a sociopath.
		And what you're describing is very similar to his circumstance and the way he behaved, except it never went quite so far because his wife was very strong, had been grounded and steeped in morality and religion, and knew where to call a halt.
		Everyone loved this man.
		There was no one who didn't love him.
		Including me.
		He had a tremendous sense of fun.
		Business associates enjoyed his company, wanted to be with him.
		Bosses, co-workers, everybody, relatives loved him.
		She was looked at as the bad guy more than he was.
		She was the one that wanted to pour water on the fun.
		But fun for him always got out of hand.
		And he didn't have a feeling or an idea of, no conscience, where is it wrong?
		Why is it wrong?
		Oh, it's so much fun.
		What's wrong in that?
		Or it ends to a means or it serves a good purpose.
		There was always a justification that was stronger than any sense of guilt, any sense of guilt.
		It wasn't there.
		And I can really relate to the 90 days of the month you speak of when things were really happy and mom was the greatest mom in the world and birthday party.
		Yes, I see this man.
		He could make parties wonderful for his wife.
		Then on the 31st day, come home with some outlandish scheme he had that would tear her up, trying to squelch it, make sure it didn't happen.
		So, and he was also very good with doctors.
		He was capable of convincing doctors that he did have things he didn't.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe he's my mother's brother.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		They sound pretty close to life.
unidentified		But because of his wife, he just never got into the crime end of it.
		But has any psychiatrist taken a look at this as a situation where he could be the classic sociopath?
		Because they fool even the psychiatrist into believing they're healthy and well.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's my mother.
		The only way that a psychiatrist would even be able to look at her was if it was uh something to serve her purpose, and it was to shorten her sentence, so she would get in the books and find out what they're looking for and exhibit those symptoms.
		So I don't see how anyone could get a true diagnosis on a personality like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you reconcile in your own mind your own brother and your mom facing a possible death sentence?
		And still loving them, which everybody understands, no matter what your parents have done, that does not change the blood connection.
		It doesn't change your mother is your mother, your brother is your brother.
		That's how it is.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		That's how it is.
		And you don't stop loving them.
		And I've had a couple friends tell me, you know, why can't you just let this go?
		Just turn your back on it.
		And all the things that I'm proud of about myself doesn't let that happen.
		And I have no apologies to make for loving them.
		As far as dealing with the death ends, I've been pretty clear with Kenny.
		The book's going to illustrate the 20 years of his life where there are circumstances here that deserve some attention.
		If he is guilty of the things that he's accused of, and justice does need to be served.
		But, you know, once again, as I said before, before this circumstance, I was the eye for the eye guy.
		I believed in the death penalty.
		I didn't believe that there were types of circumstances that could lead people to this.
		But having to, you know, look at my own history and my brother's history, I had to change.
		I'm not looking for sympathy on his behalf.
		Maybe a little understanding.
		I don't think anybody that I have met, including myself, would have been immune to the situation he was in.
		The argument that, hey, I survived it, you're right.
		I did survive it.
		But, you know, does that mean that the guy on death row who was a little bit weaker than the guy who made the right choices deserves to die?
		I don't know.
		I don't know what the answer to that one is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did you see in your brother that's different from what you saw in your mom?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Honestly, a bigger intensity.
		After what I just said, I'm not going to be hypocritical.
		Kenny brought more danger with mom.
		He was the way he grew up, he was also put in that state of being infallible.
		Everyone else was vultures after him and just Marks and stuff.
		He was above everybody else.
		But he was also very intense.
		I think he brought more danger.
		I think he made my mother more dangerous.
		And he also had more ideas.
		I think the violence escalated because of him.
		It started when he was about 10 years old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then your mom didn't really orchestrate all of it, did she?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I wrestle with that.
		You know, I look at my mother's history, and the crimes have always escalated.
		But they escalated much quicker when mom and Kenny got hooked up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Kent Walker.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whoops, I didn't push the button.
		There we go.
		West of the Rockies, now you're on the air.
unidentified		Yes, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, where are you?
unidentified		Yes, Carson City, Nevada.
unidentified		Kent Walker should recognize that community.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Very, very well.
unidentified		You went to high school there at least one year?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		My freshman year.
unidentified		Your mother graduated in 1952?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Your father graduated in 1953?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Still lives here?
unidentified		Yes.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Good man.
unidentified		Yes, I sensed your love for him.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Very much so.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I'm very proud to be his son.
unidentified		Now, Art mentioned early on in the show about a mentor and influence on your mother.
		I do a lot of writing here.
		I work with the Reno Gazette Journal.
		I've also worked with John Jod.
		He's a private investigator in L.A. And I worked with Alice McQuillan with the New York Daily News.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, in fact, she just interviewed me about a week ago.
unidentified		I saw her on Court TV.
		I had a woman call me out of the blue who gave me a name of a man now deceased who was a con man and a kidnapper in this community, and she...
		Once in Carson City and once in Sacramento, probably after she married your father on.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		You know his name?
unidentified		Yes, I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		His name is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Please, please don't.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		That was a mistake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Be a little careful here.
unidentified		Okay.
		Well, he is deceased.
		But at some point, I would like to talk to you about this because Art is right.
		There was at least one mentor who taught her the con game.
		And this was before you were born.
		I know you were born on September 27, 1962 in Sacramento.
		But I believe she met him even before she married Ed, possibly before she married Lee Powers, her first husband.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'd be very interested to talk to you.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Contact HarperCollins, and they know how to get a hold of me, and I'll give you a call.
unidentified		That'll be fine.
unidentified		I know the reporter from the Reno Gazette Journal has talked to the publicity person there, and we are trying to get in touch with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're right, Caller, or I am, or we both are.
		It just doesn't make sense that somebody enters this all by themselves.
		There's got to be somebody back there somewhere.
unidentified		Well, I believe there is, and I have a woman who claims, and I've talked to her personally, that she saw them together.
		She knows the background.
		I've talked to her.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		You have my attention.
		I'll tell you that.
		You definitely have my attention.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Get a hold of them.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Get a hold of me.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I'm not hard to find.
unidentified		We're going to check it.
		No question, she has a predisposition.
		I understand her psychological profile, but she has had a mentor, and you need to know more about that.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I'd like to find out.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Thank you for the call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, thank you very much for the call indeed.
		Maybe there's more to learn.
		And that's a good question.
		So people who want to contact you then are best to go to HarperCollins?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I would say at this point, I really haven't been addressing that question yet.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		So I would say at this point, harpercollins.com, maybe I'll get a website or something like that for people want to contact me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't have a website now.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I will tomorrow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You will tomorrow.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I'll figure something out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or email.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, be very careful about that.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I will reserve that one right now, I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, yeah, I would too.
		You'll get emails if the cows come on.
		I do.
		First time caller line.
		You're on the air with Kent Walker.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
		This is Stan.
		I'm calling from Memphis, WREC.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Hey, first of all, hearty thanks to all from all the truck drivers that you keep awake out here.
unidentified		We don't have to listen to that boring crying your beer music all night long.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		You're welcome.
unidentified		That was for you, Art.
		Thank you, thank you.
		I think I met your guest mother in Salt Lake City in the early 90s.
		I worked for a major trucking company as a fleet manager, dispatcher.
		And she came to Salt Lake City under the pretenses of she wanted to buy this trucking company.
		They basically whined her and dined her for a day and a half until they pulled a credit report.
		And then they escorted her out of town, basically.
		I guess the ironic part of this whole story was they had the Utah State Police looking for her at the time.
		And she wound up hitching a riots in Las Vegas with one of the trucking company drivers that she had been visiting.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		What year was this, sir?
unidentified		Around, I'm going to say early 90s.
unidentified		Maybe 89, early 90s.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I don't want to dispute what you're saying, but the two reasons why it doesn't make sense.
		Number one, my stepfather was alive.
		He was a multi-millionaire.
		And number two, it would be impossible to pull a credit report on my mother at that time because she had not even had a social security number yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so the only reason why I doubt this is the same person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's see.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Kent Walker.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, it's Mark from Omaha.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Mark.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		I was wondering, Kent, on your travels with you and your mother and family, did you run into any other scam artists?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		A couple, actually.
		It's a very good question.
		A couple, here's what happened.
		My mother had gone through every decent attorney in the Las Vegas area.
		And pretty soon she ended up with attorneys who their desk was the kitchen table in their houses.
		And a couple of those attorneys got her for not a lot of money, but they scammed her a couple of times.
		And so they had to go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So even she got scammed a couple of times.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, she did.
		And she was infuriated, boy.
		You want to see an apparition, Shantae Times getting caught or getting scammed.
		That wasn't a pretty sight.
		She got pretty upset about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm told, actually, the easiest people to scam are scammers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, your mother might have been the topic.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		My experience tells me different, to be honest with you.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, not even close.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How you've turned out the way you have is amazing enough.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Oh, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Kent Walker.
		Hello.
		Hello, West of the Rockies.
		You're on the air, yes.
unidentified		Yes, I'm Vixy Lee from Grass Valley.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From where?
unidentified		Grass Valley.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Grass Valley, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, uh-huh.
unidentified		Yes.
		I'm facing somewhat of a similar situation, Kent, in that my mother and my brother have violently assaulted many, many, many people.
		Yeah, me too.
		The last assault, I'm disabled, and the last assault, my mother put me in the hospital, and my brother and my mother put my in-service worker in the hospital, which was bad enough as it is.
		But I cannot, and I just happened to be taking pictures, and I took pictures of him assaulting my in-service worker.
		My brother is the size of the WWF guys.
		He's giant.
		Yeah, kickboxing champions, state champions of California and Nevada.
		He just kicked out for being too aggressive.
		My question for you is, because I'm going to be really pursuing this thing in the courts.
		Our courts in my little county won't do this.
		I'm going to the Attorney General.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We don't have a lot of time here, ma'am.
unidentified		How do you handle the emotional end of this when you know you're so right?
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Just one day at a time.
		You know, you love them, and it's tough.
		You still do the right things.
		I'm not sure my situation is exactly like yours, but I do feel what you're going through.
unidentified		You're not bad people.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		You want to go through guilt.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		You want to go through regrets.
unidentified		I know what I'm doing is right.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Just hold on to that.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		You know what you're doing is right.
unidentified		Yes.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		And just realize that the only reward you might get is that it's knowing the right thing to do.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		That's about all I can tell you.
unidentified		I really appreciate that.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		God bless, and I hope things work out for you.
unidentified		They will, and thank you very, very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, without a lot of time, you're on the air with Kent Walker.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, this is Mike Collins from Colony, South Carolina.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Okay, Mr. Walker, I'm definitely telling an interesting story I've heard this morning, and I'll definitely need to purchase this book.
unidentified		Just if you could just elaborate a little bit on what you meant by the significance of the check that you said that bounced, Nor, that, I guess, said the domino effect, or eventually led to their conviction.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's actually an interesting story.
		When they got arrested, they were arrested for a bad check charge out of Utah.
		They bought a Lincoln Town car from a dealership there, and then the FBI were looking at them for that.
		And then there was also the LAPD was looking at them for the murder of David Kasden.
		When they were arrested in New York, they were in custody for two days before they linked them up with the Silverman disappearance, even though they had Mrs. Silverman's passports or charge plates or identification.
		And here they were in the biggest city in the United States.
		They were under investigation for real estate problems, arsons, and stuff like that.
		And no one in NYPD thought to ask if this Eileen Silverman was missing of her stuff.
		The way they got caught was on the warrant from Utah.
		And one of the investigators, it was either Fed or LAPD, happened to see the mugshot that they put on two days after they were arrested on the local news stations, called up the NYPD the next day, says, we've got the guy you're looking for.
		He's right here.
		He's been in custody for the last two days.
		It was an absolute fluke that they got caught in the first place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if they hadn't been caught, if they hadn't been tripped up that way, it might still be going on.
unidentified		On a bigger and grander scale.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And again, you have no idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You believe they were working towards something really, really big, but you don't know what that was.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, because of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your brother's never told you.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		I've not heard anything from mom or Kenny at all in that respect.
		But some friends who, well, people I have befriended with the media of the book, who've been part of this investigation on the media side since 1996, has told me some things.
		And I think the money was going to the Bahamas to pull something really big off.
		It was all speculation.
		No proof.
		Just the opinion of Kent Walker.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Kent, I don't know how to thank you enough for being here.
		Your book, Son of a Grifter, is going to sell like crazy.
		I think most of my audience will be watching the CBS movie coming up on the 20th to get an even better idea of what's going on.
		But the best ideas come tonight from you of what went on.
		Thank you so much.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Thank you for the opportunity.
kent walker ▲ ● ▼		Thank you to all the colleagues for the great question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to be thinking about the interview tonight for a very, very long time.
		The book is Son of a Grifter is by Kent Walker and Mark Schoney, or S-T-H-O-N-E.
		If you'll check the link on my website, you can go to Amazon and get it there, and I highly recommend it so that you can understand what otherwise is totally not understandable.

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