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May 3, 2001 - Art Bell

02:52:57

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Rev. Howard Storm - A Hellish NDE

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	Welcome to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 3rd, 2001.
	From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening and or good morning across this great land of ours, from the island of Guam, the Rock, way out across the Dateline, way out there, eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S.
	Virgin Islands, south into South America, north to the Pole, and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM and I'm Art Bell.
	Good morning, everybody.
	Welcome to K.E.W.S.
	FM in Riverside, California.
	Riverside, how about that?
	99.3 on the dial, on the FM dial.
	Welcome to the program.
	Glad to have you along.
	Been through Riverside many, many, many times.
	Well, it's going to be an interesting night tonight, because we're all going to go to hell.
	At least those of us who stick around for the next hour.
	A man who was an atheist.
	A real atheist, I guess.
	He's now a reverend.
	But he was an atheist.
	Had a near-death experience.
	And went to hell.
	And he's got an extensive description for you of what hell is like.
	I've never heard anybody tell me that before.
	Maybe a little glimpse with Sarah.
	Of what might be, but this will be a trip all the way to the real place.
	That's coming up next hour.
	This hour, quite a few things for you, actually.
	The whole thing over Tito is getting a little ridiculous.
	From MSNBC, let me read you a little of this, May 3rd.
	The US-Russian rhetorical duel over space tourist Dennis Tito's multi-million dollar ride to the International Space Station has flared again.
	NASA's chief says the trip has put, quote, incredible stress, end quote, on the agency, and that the Russians will be getting a babysitting bill.
	But Russia said Tito's presence hasn't influenced space station operations at all, and a top Russian space executive said Golden's comments demonstrated incompetence.
	As a matter of fact, NASA officials, as you well know, have grumbled for weeks about Tito's trip to the space station aboard a Soyuz spacecraft.
	In March, the agency barred the space engineer-turned-financier from training sessions at the Johnson Space Center, sparking a one-day walkout by his two Russian shipmates.
	NASA and the other station partners didn't give Tito's flight their original go-ahead until four days before launch last Saturday.
	And on the day before the mission, NASA tried to get the Russians to delay liftoff due to computer problems on the International Space Station.
	During testimony before the House Subcommittee on Space and Aeronautics on Wednesday, NASA Administrator Dan Golden indicated that the frictions haven't been smoothed over.
	Quote, The current situation has put an incredible stress on the men and women of NASA, Golden said.
	They're dedicated to safety and Mr. Tito does not realize the efforts of thousands of people in the U.S.
	and Russia that are working to protect his safety and the safety of everyone else Taking extraordinary means.
	After Tito's return to Earth, NASA will seek reimbursement from the Russians for any costs caused by construction delays or lost working hours on the station.
	You know, this is just absolutely, it's getting absolutely ridiculous.
	This is an American up there, an American with a past with NASA.
	The early days of NASA.
	What the hell are we doing?
	I mean, really, what are we doing?
	Remember I told you I was going to, on somebody's suggestion, Richard's or somebody's, that I would try and get hold of Tito and see if we could do an interview.
	And I knew it was going to be a low probability thing.
	And sure enough, it has been.
	We contacted Tito's representative first, and he said, you'll have to talk to NASA.
	So we talked to NASA.
	And NASA said, you're going to have to call the Russians.
	And they gave us the number in Russia.
	And we'll follow up with that, you know.
	But what's going on here?
	This man goes a long way back with NASA himself.
	He is an American.
	We have the biggest monetary investment in the International Space Station as Americans.
	We do.
	So what the hell's wrong with an American going up to the space station?
	I don't get it.
	I just don't get it.
	And to me, it's an embarrassment that In a request to try and talk to an American on the International Space Station, NASA just says, you're going to have to talk to the Russians.
	I mean, what kind of attitude is that, really?
	What an embarrassment for NASA.
	I mean, what a real embarrassment for NASA, in my opinion.
	Sure, grumblies up there, I guess.
	Uh, but he's there.
	I mean, we put an American school teacher up there, remember?
	Or we tried.
	Blew up.
	But it's not as though, occasionally, a civilian shouldn't be allowed on the space station.
	Slot of taxpayer money up there.
	What's wrong with having a civilian up there?
	I mean, particularly if he pays his own way.
	And he has to go to our prior enemies, the Russians, to buy his way up there.
	And then after that, it's nothing but trouble.
	And an American broadcasting network wants to talk to an American.
	And so the American agency, NASA, says, no, you'll have to talk to the Russians.
	I think that's embarrassing for us.
	Just downright embarrassing.
	Several people suggested, well, I could do it by ham radio, and that's absolutely correct.
	I could do it by ham radio, but it would be not legal.
	You cannot use ham radio for commercial purpose, and so, yeah, it was a good idea, except the law doesn't allow it.
	I'm kind of angry with NASA.
	I think that's a really terrible attitude to take, and I don't know why they're taking it.
	As they pointed out in the article, they actually tried to delay the launch, saying it was computers.
	You know, there's something, something wrong with this.
	What is wrong with the whole picture, huh?
	An American has to go to our former enemies to buy his way up to a space place that we own more of than anybody else.
	I mean, if you really want to break it down that way.
	I think that sucks.
	And then an American broadcasting company, granted NASA may not, I may not have any favor in NASA, I understand that, but you would think they'd want to think really hard, wouldn't you?
	Before they say, oh no, you'll have to go talk to the Russians.
	I mean, we can't allow you to talk to an American over American communications equipment.
	Oh, come on.
	That just really sucks.
	There's something else going on here that has to do with I don't know what.
	Ego.
	Security.
	Something they're not telling us.
	Or arrogance.
	Maybe arrogance, huh?
	Are we so arrogant that we can't imagine somebody with Mr. Tito's background being in our precious space station?
	Only thoroughly and carefully trained NASA astronauts can do it?
	Hogwash!
	Old guys can go to the... Look, John Glenn, he went to the space station.
	Why not?
	Why not have a little democracy in space?
	What the hell's wrong with NASA?
	Sure is getting to me.
	And then here's something else getting to me, too.
	As you know, China announced that because of the airplane incident, they were going to have a week of Let's Hack American Government sites.
	And I think last night I said, or was it the night before, recently, that all things considered, if there's going to be a war, which they're the ones who, they've declared it, That, uh, I think that they've made a very bad decision because I know our hackers.
	We have really good hackers in America.
	And as far as I'm concerned, screw them!
	I got this today from somebody.
	Mr. Bell.
	I was disappointed to hear the comments you made on the air the morning of May 3rd.
	Well, there you go, May 3rd.
	You were discussing computer attacks made by Chinese hackers on American websites.
	You warned the Chinese that if they wanted to start a war, that American hackers are much better than Chinese hackers.
	Then you advised the Chinese to go right ahead and hack away.
	Well, of course they're doing that.
	I just added that.
	The connotation was that American hackers would do much worse to the Chinese.
	First of all, I was very disappointed in the intolerant, war-mongering attitude you displayed.
	Must you step right up to assume the typical American king of the world posture that is despised around the world?
	You need to step down from your ivory tower for a few moments and consider how this superior, holier-than-thou position makes you look to others.
	I'm sure you would not like to see the Artbell.com site hacked into.
	I'll bet other website operators in the U.S.
	feel the same way.
	Well, look, first of all, this is from Thane in London, Canada.
	Well, Thane, I think you've got it all wrong, buddy.
	We didn't start it, but in American fashion, I was simply suggesting we can finish it.
	As far as hackers into our site, I've had plenty of hackers, some of the best hackers in the U.S.
	on the air.
	I think they're not very likely to hack away at my site, although it's hacked at all the time.
	That's the nature of big sites on the Internet.
	They get hacked.
	Or, let me put it this way.
	It's certainly attempted to be hacked.
	It's not something we put up with all the time, but we're talking about government sites here, for the most part.
	For as I know, U.S.
	government sites being hacked, and civilian sites, I guess, by the Chinese.
	And so I say again, if they want to hack us, then fine.
	Let's hack the hell out of them.
	Let's take their sights down the best way we can.
	And we've got some really good people at it.
	I know.
	I've talked to them.
	So from my perspective, um, screw the Chinese.
	They began the war.
	I'm of the view that, you know, leave somebody else alone and leave them alone and let us all coexist and do our own thing and go our own way.
	But when somebody comes and kicks you in the shins, I'm all for kicking back, and I think we can kick back better.
	Yeah, there may be more Chinese, but trust me when I tell you our hackers are the most sophisticated hackers in the world.
	And I say, go get them!
	To hell with them!
	They started hacking us several days ago.
	Let's get them!
	Simple as that.
	They want a hacking war, they'll get a hacking war.
	So for, uh, whoever this is, uh, Thane in London, Canada, you're just going to have to go on and be disappointed, I'm afraid.
	We'll be, uh, right back.
	Stay right where you are.
	Sound of explosion.
	Sound of wind.
	Sound of wind.
	Now we take you back to the night of May 3rd, 2001 on Arkbell Somewhere in Time.
	Music.
	Now here's another story from the BBC on a mad deer disease in Colorado.
	The disease which began in the wild now is spreading to the farms.
	So the elk at Steve Wolcott's farm are at risk.
	It may be a problem when infected carcasses are brought back across the country, he said.
	I think that we have to be concerned about this material being able to infect other wild deer populations in other parts of the country.
	The disease is identical to BSE in the way it attacks the brain and nervous system of the deer.
	It cannot be detected until shortly before death.
	And now, the threat to humans.
	There is an additional cause for concern, the article goes on.
	Laboratory tests have shown that humans could contract this illness in the same way as BSE, although we have no cases thus far.
	From the Colorado A health department's point of view at this point, the answers to these questions are unknown because of the BSE experience.
	It is theoretically possible, and based on that, there are some precautions that hunters may want to take.
	A farm in the mountains of Nevada may hold the key to the puzzle of mad deer disease.
	Gee, here in Nevada, great.
	A farm's owner, a cowboy, called Jim Kopecki, I believe it is, died suddenly from CJD, an illness very similar to both BSE and MAD deer variant.
	Brenda, Jim's widow, admits that he loved to hunt and it is possible he may have died from eating infected deer meat.
	As she said, I couldn't comprehend that a cowboy in the middle of farming Nevada could get such a horrendous disease, she said, so I dragged the poor man to many other doctors looking for something that made just any sense at all.
	He was the third deer hunter to die in the last two years from CJD.
	So far, the evidence suggests it is simply a coincidence.
	Do you all believe it is a coincidence?
	Interesting story.
	60 pregnant cows with human genes.
	Remember that experiment?
	Putting human genes into cows?
	Well, now the story is they may be slaughtered after a high court ruling has thrown one of the country's best-known genetic experiments into doubt.
	Scientists at Hamilton's Ruraka Research Center have inserted a synthetic basic human protein into cattle fetuses in an experiment to improve the treatment of multiple sclerosis, an incurable neurological condition affecting coordination.
	The experiment was approved by the Environmental Risk Management Authority.
	The Environmental...
	Risk Management Authority.
	So apparently, these are the people that decide what sort of genetic experiments we're going to be allowed to do and or not allowed to do.
	Anyway, they approved this one.
	And now it may end in disaster for the animals.
	They're saying that it'd be more humane to kill a pregnant cow now than wait until it gave birth and then kill the mother and the baby.
	Maybe it wasn't such a good idea to do this experiment in the first place.
	Maybe a number of the genetic experiments that we are considering right now, not such a smart idea.
	I mean, as I interview people here on the air, and you know I have interviewed people in these areas recently, I think that we're on a very, very, very slippery slope.
	With just about all of the genetic manipulation that we're beginning to engage in, from the level of plants, to animals, to humans.
	I know it's well-intentioned, at least I pray so, and I imagine so, that it is well-intentioned, trying to learn something about some disease.
	But if the risk, if the other side of the equation is that some gene is going to, as we heard last night, Jump from some newly created strain of wheat that keeps the
	bugs away And it's going to jump to an animal and then ultimately to
	a human Then we're going to eventually have some kind of disaster
	and So I would hope that before approving the next experiment,
	and I'm anything but anti science whoever these risk assessment people are they will assess
	more carefully and consider what we're doing and And I'm not against advancing science.
	I just don't want to end up with a moral dilemma.
	I don't want to end up with monsters.
	And I certainly don't want some worldwide disaster occurring because some scientist goes, oops.
	Oops.
	Drop the vial.
	Isn't that the whole way the Captain Trips thing began?
	Good morning.
	We'll take a break and then we'll do open lines at the top of the next hour.
	We're all going to take a trip to hell.
	A real trip to hell.
	I'm Art Bell and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 3rd, 2001.
	Thank you for watching.
	Without a home.
	Not without a star.
	Free.
	Only want to be free.
	We haven't clothes.
	Hang on to a dream.
	On the boats and on the planes, become...
	The End.
	you you
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 3rd, 2001.
	Good morning, everybody, and I've got something very interesting for you this morning.
	I try to always have that, but if you'll go to my website, in the What's New section of my website, the first item is the Disclosure Conference Notice about What Steven Greer is going to be doing, Dr. Greer, and he'll be here tomorrow night to give you kind of a preview of an incredibly important event in Washington.
	So that's tomorrow night, but the second item down, I think you should take a look at.
	It says, Weird Whirlpool Story on links page.
	Click on that and go down to the second set of links.
	And click on Weird Whirlpool.
	And this really is pretty bizarre stuff.
	And I'd love to have your opinion of what we're seeing here.
	A strange phenomena spinning off the coast of San Diego.
	Some say it comes from out of this world.
	And there's a picture of it there.
	It can be best described as a giant whirlpool caught on videotape off Black's Beach.
	A camera flying in a biplane shot the footage with his home video camera, and it is extraordinary to say the least.
	And I guess you can get the actual video that he shot on the site.
	Oceanographers say they've never seen anything like it, but at least one expert says an unidentified underwater object might have caused the weird whirlpool.
	And then they go on to talk about flying saucers, UFOs, strange lights, and so forth and so on that people have seen in the area, but you've really got to see this.
	There's nothing on this Earth short of a water spout that could do this, and obviously there is no weather Anywhere close that would indicate there's a water sprout going on.
	So we've got this swirling going on in the water.
	This unaccountable swirling.
	And I'm wondering about all kinds of things.
	I'm wondering about an energy that could cause this.
	I'm wondering about the power that makes crop circles, which we found on dirt.
	and in dust and all kinds of things and if there could be some relationship to what we're seeing here.
	Oh, about a big whirlpool in the ocean for no apparent scientific discernible reason.
	Now that bears some study, and I'd suggest you go read the article, take a look at the video.
	It's, again, under What's New, and then it will take you to our links page, and you can go from there.
	But there's lots to wonder about with regard to this whirlpool.
	What would do that to the ocean?
	I mean, completely defeating the wave action, and it looks like a black hole in the water.
	Damnedest thing you ever saw.
	What would cause that?
	So, I've got a link up there.
	Keith got that up there a little earlier today, but that's really got me thinking.
	Now we take you back to the night of May 3rd, 2001, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	And we're back.
	You're watching Art Bell.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, R. How are you?
	I'm pretty good.
	This is Sean, Western New York.
	Yes, Sean.
	A few brief things about your little story there on NASA.
	I haven't even hit 30 yet, and I thought about maybe dabbling in a little bit of politics, OK?
	And of course, the delusions of grandeur and the daydream brought me up.
	It's like, wow, what if I could actually fit into a position?
	That would help me push for more space exploration.
	You know, thinking more money for NASA.
	Sure.
	And then, you come on the air tonight, and I thought, boy, if this is really how it is, you know, what would be the point?
	I mean, isn't it kind of stupid?
	The whole thing?
	This is an American who's up there, and to me, maybe there's something I really don't know, but we're acting like asses.
	And the space station there.
	You know, I said to myself, when I heard they were going to put it up and do it in a joint effort, thinking, now this is the way the world should be, and here we go, politics and money and everything, they gotta screw it up.
	So, that's about it.
	Oh, that'll do.
	Thank you very much.
	I could not agree with you more.
	I mean, it's just, it's really, we're acting like asses.
	Now, maybe we're not properly telling our side of the story.
	Maybe there's some side of the story that I just haven't heard.
	I don't know.
	But the whole attitude about this is all wrong.
	All wrong.
	Tito, as I said, you know, he's not exactly just a civilian with money.
	He had a lot of training with NASA.
	He goes way back with NASA.
	And he had to go to our former enemy.
	And that galls me to buy his way up to a place where we are.
	And then once there, Um, NASA can't see its way to let us use a channel of communication to communicate with him.
	They've got to send us to Russia to do that.
	I think it's embarrassing for us.
	Really embarrassing.
	That's what we got told by NASA earlier.
	They gave us the phone number to the Russians.
	Doesn't that kind of stink?
	I mean, ah well.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Mr. Bell?
	Yes, hi.
	Oh, hello.
	I'm Caleb and I'm calling from Birmingham WRC 960.
	Yes, sir.
	I had a couple of ideas that may interest you.
	One is about the location of the actual hell and I'm a Christian myself and I heard this from a very reliable source and from a doctor, well, I think he's a doctor anyway.
	You know about the black holes in space, right?
	Sure.
	All right, well, you know how, like, they can suck up suns, you know?
	Well, yeah, they can eat suns, they can absorb light, bend light toward them, a lot of things.
	Yes, sir, and see, the suns inside, there's no way that the heat can escape, so it grows hotter and hotter in there, and so that's millions and millions of... So you're thinking hell's in a black hole, maybe?
	Well, yeah, because the Bible does say that there'll be eternal darkness, and that they'll be like some, I can't remember the number,
	but some number of times hotter than the sun, than our, like the sun, our sun,
	and that's a very interesting idea, I think.
	And I, but I also had another interesting idea a while ago when I was listening to you on, while I was calling you,
	whenever you mentioned the thing about Tito in space and how the computers,
	like they had a computer problem before he went up to space and they had to delay it, they asked him to delay it,
	you know?
	Yes, and the Russians said no one launched.
	So then you mentioned the 1986 explosion of the, that the teacher was on board.
	Of the Challenger, yes.
	Yeah, I was on board too when that happened, but a few years ago I learned a little bit about it.
	I don't know too much about it, but I'm not trying to be paranoid or anything here, but what do you think the possibilities are that maybe someone at NASA or some heads of NASA Maybe he has staged that explosion because of a civilian.
	No.
	Nah.
	I don't buy into that.
	Yeah, but that was just a thought that came to mind.
	I mean, you know, you can't... Okay, let me just put it to you out straight.
	NASA's doing some stuff that's pretty screwed up, but they're not murderers.
	I know there are people that have said such things, but I'm not one of them.
	Uh, no.
	Not a chance.
	Not in my mind.
	However, this attitude that they have right now is just ridiculous.
	It's embarrassing for the United States in every way.
	Every step of the way here, it's embarrassing.
	To me, it's embarrassing that one of our own has to go to a former enemy, buy his way up there, then essentially get snubbed up there with Golden making all kinds of catty remarks.
	And then we're pretty damn big broadcasting concern, I can tell you.
	And so we began to make some inquiries today, and we talked to Tito's rep, who said, no, you'll have to talk to NASA.
	OK, fair enough.
	So we talked to NASA, and they give us the phone number of a Russian guy.
	Now, we might be able to do it that way, although I'm hearing rumors now that there may be something in his contract saying he can't do anything commercial from the space station.
	Now, I don't know what that means.
	Does that mean he can't endorse Wheaties or something?
	Or does that mean that he can't do an interview with a broadcast concern?
	I don't know.
	So maybe contractually he can't do it.
	Who knows?
	But if we did ever pull it off, we would have to... It would be almost like an email conversation.
	I mean, you'd have to have a landline from here to Russia.
	Probably satellite, actually.
	With all the lag time.
	And then, of course, up to space again, and the question arrives, and they answer, and then it goes back down again, back up to another satellite, back down to the U.S., and we get the answer.
	There'd be such a delay, having to go through Russia, it would be kind of annoying, but I would go ahead and, of course, take the opportunity and do it anyway.
	But it could be so much easier if our own organization, supported by taxpayers, NASA, would allow it to occur, but not to Tito.
	Only to approved astronauts.
	Not to Tito, an American citizen who's up there.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Oh, push the button.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hello, this is Mark in Newport, Oregon.
	Hello, Mark.
	And I bounced around on about five or six channels here on the coast trying to keep up with your show.
	I was watching News World International about an hour and a half ago, and there was a report on a company called, I think, Nexius, out of New York, and they were saying that they've already cloned goats with spiders.
	Yeah, you know, I read that on the internet earlier, that they were about to... Why would they want to clone a goat and a spider?
	The milk has the spider silk properties in it.
	They're looking at making bulletproof vests.
	They say it's meteor proof or space crap.
	Oh my god, really?
	Yeah, it was a report and they were showing the goats.
	They didn't actually show them, like, milking them and making the spiderweb, but they were showing the DNA and they were saying that, here, this part's the spider's contribution.
	Spider.
	Glad you're back, man.
	I appreciate your call, sir.
	Thank you.
	You know, we're headed down some strange places with all of this.
	That's a, you've got to admit, that's a pretty strange combination.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air, hi.
	Yes.
	Turn your radio off, please.
	Yes.
	On the 503 here on Washington, and just wanted to ask you if you would ask your guest tonight, you know, sometimes major games have to Had talked at one time about the differences when he was talking about Lucifer and Satan and about the fact of the crystalline colors.
	You might want to ask your guests about the fact that if he happened to be in the same place at the same time or he's actually here on Earth doing his thing.
	Well, let's see what he has to say.
	I'd rather not prejudice his answer in any way.
	I'd just like to hear his story in detail.
	I've never heard anybody really say, other than Sarah, who got pretty close, or perhaps got a glimpse, but I've never heard anybody else talk about hell.
	This is going to be a first.
	My question to you also, too, is are you going to have Kathleen Keaton on again?
	Oh, no doubt.
	I'm sure we will, yes.
	Well, you know, The particular person, and I know you've asked not to say it, and I won't, but the particular person is becoming very active.
	Oh yeah, that person, she is named as the Antichrist.
	Yes, that's correct, but you would ask not to use that name, and I won't.
	I still would rather not, yes.
	Right, and out of respect for that, I won't.
	Thank you, it's not hard to find.
	People want to find it, they go on the internet, they'll figure it out.
	But it's very interesting that not only Is it just this particular person that you had talked to before, but now there's actual ambassadors that are talking about him, too?
	Oh, I'm well aware, thank you very much, that this person is very real, and the claims made by this person.
	Oh, yes, I'm very aware of it.
	And yes, of course, we'll have Kathleen on again.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art.
	This is Roger.
	Listening to you via the Internet.
	Yes, sir.
	I don't know if it was when you were sick, but are you going to have the head of the FCC on?
	That's Raleigh Hollingsworth, and yeah, we are going to have him on.
	He simply begged off for a period of time so that he could kind of get the lay of the land with the new commissioner coming in.
	Okay.
	So you want to understand what policy is before you try and go on the radio and talk about what it is.
	Can't implement what you don't know.
	Yeah, that's right.
	So I thought his decision was wise and he said he would come on.
	Okay.
	Do you have another time frame?
	No, not yet.
	I'll write to him soon.
	We'll find out.
	Okay.
	Have a good show.
	Thank you.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	On me?
	Yes, on you.
	Turn your radio off, please, dear.
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	I'm sorry.
	That's alright.
	On May 1st, you had someone by the name of Alan.
	I didn't get the last name.
	Mesher.
	Mesher?
	Yes.
	And, uh, I didn't get all his number.
	I got 3100, but I didn't get the first two numbers.
	Oh, I'm terribly sorry.
	I don't have that info here.
	Your best shot is the website.
	It'll still have all the information on it.
	And as far as I heard somebody speaking about the Challenger, there was a young man who was doing research on the Challenger before it went up.
	And he told all the powers that be that not to send up the Challenger because the rings could not withstand the cold temperature.
	Oh, I know.
	There was a great big investigation about the whole thing.
	I'm very, very well aware of it.
	Obviously a poor decision and there were a lot of meetings about that at NASA.
	And you know it's funny, I've watched a lot of launches since and a lot of them have scared me because if you remember the video of the Challenger and you remember the flames that were licking around, do you remember that?
	I've seen that on subsequent flights and I've gone, oh man!
	But I guess it's okay, and you know, people see things, but it very much looked like the same sort of flame to me that was certainly the problem, and they showed in great detail in the Challenger footage just prior to the explosion.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air, hello.
	Yes, hi Art.
	Hi.
	This is Reba in Colville.
	Hi there.
	Well, since you're talking about the Challenger, I thought I'd add something here.
	Dick Scobie, when he was very young, taught me how to ride a bike.
	No kidding?
	Yes.
	When I was living up in Martin and his grandfather was on the section crew for the railroad.
	Well, riding bikes is, the first time, is a very serious matter indeed.
	Oh, it was.
	I remember myself, so.
	Now, I have a question.
	Yes.
	How's it going with getting Shirley MacLaine on?
	Um, well, I don't know.
	I actually haven't tried yet.
	Oh, okay.
	But I'm sure we'll get her on.
	I mean, I think she was on not too long before I left.
	Yes, she was.
	So, we'll get her on again.
	And be sure to ask her about her saving seeds, please.
	Saving seeds, alright.
	Yes, thank you.
	You bet.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yeah, hi, my name's Al.
	I'm a truck driver, a new listener, and a new caller, first-time caller.
	I wanted to ask you a question about the chemtrails in America, the tail end about it, and I've been noticing them also myself.
	Well, what kind of question would you ask?
	Well, I've really got turned on to it.
	It should be about a couple of months, maybe, and the I never caught the tail end of the chemtrails other than I started looking out for them.
	I live up in Hesperia by Victorville.
	I'm a truck driver.
	I travel all around and I did notice them.
	In Hesperia we have clean, nice air up there and just like Uh, you meant, uh, your callers mentioned that the next, by the afternoon, it's real, uh, gloomy out there and horrible.
	Gloomy and hazy, right?
	Yeah.
	Yep.
	And then one time I was up in Hayward, California, and I was up there for about five hours, and I noticed it was a clean sky in the morning, and then by the mid-afternoon, uh, it, it was, it, I saw all the camp trails up there, and then it started getting really ugly looking, and as I drove away, I went, I'm coming down to five, and I could, I stopped and I looked, and you could just see overhead, I just, uh, this horrible gloom over the skies.
	Have you found out what's going on yet?
	No.
	Uh, absolutely not.
	The latest theory, um, I think the most accepted present theory is that there's weather control.
	That they're trying to do something, uh, to correct what they see as a deteriorating situation with the weather.
	I see.
	Now, three things I did notice.
	One time I was coming back from, uh, San Diego and going to, uh, Sir, we're coming to the end of the show here.
	and it was at night and I started noticing these chemtrails and it was a clear night.
	Now the three occasions, the next in Hayward I noticed that the following day there was rain there.
	Sir, we're coming to the end of the show here.
	Okay.
	Anyway, the first hour of the show, so I've got to scoot.
	Okay, alright.
	Okay, all right.
	Well, anyways, I did notice rain after the following day out of those three occurrences.
	I just wanted to let you know that.
	Ah, okay.
	Thank you very much.
	It was a great show.
	Thank you.
	Take care, my friend.
	We're going to hell.
	Next.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 3rd, 2001.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm ready.
	Oh, oh, oh, I'm ready.
	And I'm really gonna rock tonight.
	I'm not gonna be a fool for you.
	No, no, no, she ain't ready.
	She sings like a songbird and you sing me out like you ain't never heard her but she ain't ready
	No, no, no, she ain't ready No, no, no, she ain't ready
	Is he gonna rock and roll?
	She's sweet on my neck I think she's after Beethoven
	She's under the whip of genius Oh, they're military things
	She's sweet on my neck I think she's after Beethoven
	She's under the whip of genius Oh, they're military things
	Oh, they're military things She's sweet on my neck
	I think she's after Beethoven She's under the whip of genius
	Oh, they're military things She's sweet on my neck
	I think she's after Beethoven She's sweet on my neck
	She's sweet on my neck I think she's after Beethoven
	She's sweet on my neck Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired May 3rd, 2001.
	The Reverend Howard Storm is up and coming.
	He's back in Kentucky.
	He's Reverend for the Zion United Church of Christ.
	I will tell you more about him in a moment, but basically, he went to hell.
	He was an atheist and he went to hell.
	You just don't get to hear very many descriptions of what hell is like.
	Ever.
	I don't think we ever have.
	Not really.
	Well, he says he's got one.
	Now we take you back to the night of May 3rd, 2001 on Ark Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Well, in a way, I've been waiting to do this interview for a long time, maybe all my life.
	I've never had anybody describe hell to me, and that's what Reverend Storm says he can do.
	Again, he is a reverend for the Zion United Church of Christ in Norwood, Ohio.
	He has a BFA from San Francisco Art Institute in 1969, an MA from the University of California at Berkeley in 1970, MFA, University of California Berkeley, 72, MDIV, United Theological Seminary, 1992.
	So that was the MFA in 72 and the Theological Seminary in 92.
	Ordination, June 14th of 92, United Church of Christ.
	Was employed by the Northern Kentucky University as a professor of art, 1972 to 92.
	So that was a long career.
	Coordinator or chairperson of art department for seven and one half years.
	And then the Zion United Church of Christ pastoring from 1992 to present.
	He's made all kinds of television appearances and radio, I would presume.
	He was an art professor and an atheist.
	And welcome, Reverend.
	Thank you.
	Good to have you on the air with us.
	I guess I would just have you tell your story.
	You were an atheist in the purest sense of the word at one time?
	Yeah, I probably around 16 or 17 years old gave up on religion.
	Completely gave up on it when I went to college.
	Any reason why?
	It seemed pointless.
	You know, they talked about being good all the time.
	You couldn't be good all the time?
	Well, actually that was kind of a problem, you know, when you're 16 and raging hormones and stuff.
	My interests were sitting in church singing hymns.
	I understand.
	Boring.
	Right, right.
	And silly.
	And then I just, as I went to college and stuff, came to realize at the time, from that point of view, that I was being deceived that there was no Afterlife, there was no heaven or hell, there was no God, and the stories in the Bible were all false.
	Stories?
	Yeah, just stories.
	The reality was the scientific truth of the world, and that we were just biochemical organisms who had these short, pathetic little lives, and the point of life was to have as much fun as possible.
	Which I guess you were endeavoring to do, huh?
	Yes.
	So I was in San Francisco from 1967 to 1972 in the Bay Area.
	That seemed to be the right place to be at the right time.
	Oh, it was?
	So I was fairly experienced.
	You had a long career in art, didn't you?
	Yes.
	What sort of, you were a professor of art, so you taught art.
	Right.
	Well that's a world away from where you are right now, that's for sure, so something really big, obviously, occurred to you.
	When did this happen?
	On June 1st, 1985, I was taking a group of students around Europe, and my wife was along, and we had I've gone all over Germany, Amsterdam, Sweden, and now we're in France.
	It was the last day of the trip.
	On that Saturday morning, I was in the hotel talking to a student.
	I had an acute pain in my stomach, which I found out later was a hole had broken through my small stomach.
	Stomach acid and digestive juices was leaking into my abdominal cavity.
	It felt like I'd been shot.
	When it happened, I went right down to the ground and just sort of crumpled up in extreme pain and terror.
	I thought that I should see glass breaking from the window because I thought that was the only place that a shot could have come from.
	From outside.
	You really thought you were shot?
	Yeah, I just had the most intense pain in the center of my abdomen.
	I didn't know what was happening.
	I was screaming and yelling.
	My wife called the desk at the hotel and they called an emergency service and a doctor came right away to the hotel room and examined me and told me what the problem was.
	Called an ambulance.
	And he was able to figure that out right on the spot, huh?
	Yeah, it was very evident to him.
	And they put him in an ambulance and took Matt probably eight miles or so across Paris to an emergency hospital.
	Right.
	Where I was taken to, examined by two doctors in the emergency room and x-rayed.
	The situation was explained to me that this was a fairly grave situation.
	And that if they attended to it right away, if I had surgery immediately, that I would be in the hospital for three or four weeks, and I would have maybe four weeks of recovery, and I'd be all better.
	And if we didn't do the surgery right away, I would die very soon.
	Wow.
	So this was a no-brainer, you know, like, okay, let's do the surgery.
	Sure.
	So they took me from that hospital, which was a public hospital, to A few blocks away to another building which was a surgical hospital and put me in a room on the third floor of that building to have the surgery as they had told me immediately.
	Now immediately.
	Urgent.
	Yeah.
	Unbeknownst to my wife, Roy, there wasn't a surgeon in that hospital available to do the surgery.
	We didn't know that, so I was parked.
	Very disappointing after they've used all those urgent words.
	Yeah, and the pain, which had taken me to the ground screaming, was just gradually getting worse and worse and worse, so it was all I could do to keep my sanity.
	Yeah, I don't know what happens when your stomach acids begin to go into the rest of your body, but it must be horrible.
	It feels like having a red hot coal in the middle of you.
	Sure.
	And then as it progressed and moved around my abdominal cavity instead of being a point it became an area and then pretty soon it was like all over the whole abdominal area.
	So it was obvious to you physically just lying there that it was spreading and getting worse very quickly.
	Yeah.
	And it was so bad that a number of times I told my wife to get me a knife because I was going to cut it out.
	You know, and I would have cut it.
	She wouldn't, of course, but I would have done it.
	You really would have done it?
	Yeah, because it would have been preferable to what I was experiencing.
	Of course, it would have been a disaster if I'd done that, but it would have been preferable to what I was experiencing.
	So, still no doctor and you're just laying there?
	Yeah, and people who are so used to American medicine find this part of the story incredible, but unfortunately a lot of Americans who've had Healthcare in other countries have a whole new appreciation for how good we have it in this country with American medicine.
	Usually.
	Yeah, usually.
	But I was just left alone.
	I was never examined by a doctor.
	I had never received any medication or any treatment.
	Matter of fact, there was no idea of how stark it was.
	There was no pillow on the bed.
	There was no top sheet.
	They weren't even giving you anything for pain?
	No.
	I've had some people say, whoa, you must have been on drugs when this happened.
	The irony was is that I'm, the few times that the nurse came into the room or an orderly or something, I begged them for, you know, some drugs.
	Nobody could do anything.
	Let's have drugs.
	Yeah.
	There was nobody, no doctor to prescribe it.
	So, you know, the nurses or other attendants.
	Well, that's right.
	Without a doctor to order a strong pain reliever, there wouldn't be one.
	That's right.
	So minutes turned to hours and hours went by and I was getting weaker and weaker and the doctors in the United States later told me that my life expectancy from the beginning of this incident was about 5 hours.
	Holy smokes!
	This started at almost exactly 11 o'clock and by 5 o'clock in the afternoon I was beginning to think I wasn't going to make it.
	Well, according to the doctors, you technically shouldn't have at that point.
	1, 2, 3, 4, 5, that's 5 hours.
	That's 5 hours right there.
	So then, by 8.30 that night, I was hanging on to life.
	It was like my fingernails slipping off the clip.
	There was still no doctor there?
	No, and I had never been seen by a doctor, nobody had taken my attention.
	Temperature, blood pressure, I mean, zip, nothing.
	Oh my god, what, uh... I wouldn't recommend this hospital.
	Yeah, obviously not.
	I would recommend to avoid this place at all costs, but anyways.
	So, a nurse came into the room at 8.30 and said to me and my wife that She said exactly.
	We're very sorry, but we're unable to find a doctor and we'll try and get one tomorrow.
	What?
	What?
	I say again, what?
	Didn't you consider leaving for calling another hospital or I don't know what the options would have been.
	Of course, I couldn't.
	Earlier in an emergency, I had asked if This was the right place for it to be because I was an American and they said, well there is an American hospital in Paris but there's no time to get you there because you're going to have the surgery right away.
	Now at this point I was way too weak to even contemplate, you know, doing anything.
	Alright.
	So when the nurse told me that there was no doctor available, I figured it was it.
	It was over.
	There was no point in trying to hang on to life anymore and the pain was so extreme that all I wanted to do was to be out of it.
	Out of the world, out of this life, and I knew that when you died it was the lights off, curtain down, it's over, it's finished.
	And that was preferable to hanging on any longer because I had been struggling for hours to stay alive.
	All of the strength that was depleting and all of my will, I didn't have any will to live anymore.
	I said it's time for us to say goodbye and she got up and hugged me and kissed me and we told each other how much we loved each other and we said goodbye to each other.
	It was very painful, still painful when I think about that, and for my wife too.
	Yeah, of course.
	And she was crying so hard she sat back down in the chair and I was watching her cry her heart out because Here she was watching her husband just die.
	Fade away from her before her very eyes and there wasn't anything she could do about it.
	And I closed my eyes and hoped to die and no desire to live anymore and I went unconscious.
	And I don't know how long.
	I was unconscious probably a few minutes at the most when I was conscious again and I was standing next to the bed.
	I felt really good.
	I was very aware of the situation.
	I knew that I was very sick and I needed to have an operation.
	I was aware that I had a stomach problem, but I really didn't have the pain.
	Instead, I felt very alive.
	Now, you were in what kind of state?
	People frequently have told me stories, just like you are telling me now, of being outside your body, and or hovering over operating tables, and I'm sure you've heard all the stories.
	So I'm always curious, what kind of presence did you have outside your body?
	I mean, could you see your own hand?
	Could you see yourself?
	Yeah, I felt, not only did I feel real, and this is weird, but I felt more real than what would be normal.
	In other words, my bottoms of my feet, to try and explain this, the bottoms of my feet
	were very sensitive to the texture and the temperature of the linoleum floor.
	I felt so strange that I touched my legs and my head because my whole body was so alive.
	I was aware that my eyesight was better than normal.
	So all your senses were way up there.
	Yeah, it was like everything was on overdrive.
	And I just thought this was so bizarre, but I was really happy that I didn't have the pain anymore and that I was alive, because the last thing I remembered was dying.
	Well, what about the mental concept, though, of I found that very disturbing.
	So the only thing that I could think of was that the body in the bed wasn't real.
	I was trying to figure out how this could be, so I decided that what they had done was, while I was unconscious, they had made a wax duplicate of me and put it in the bed.
	The thing I couldn't Um, explain to us why they would do that.
	Because, you know, it would have been quite a bit of work to bring in the people from Madame Tussard's Wax Museum and make this wax replica of me.
	Sure.
	But I was so mad at the hospital that I thought, well, you know, they're just messing with me.
	They're doing this just to mess with me.
	But then I couldn't figure out why my wife would participate in this, you know, deception.
	So I started yelling and screaming at her.
	You know what's going on here, using some pretty strong language.
	And she didn't move, she didn't blink, she didn't respond, so I became really angry at her because now, in addition to this very disturbing thing in the bed that looked like me, she was pretending that she couldn't see me or hear me.
	Of course, she wasn't pretending because she, of course, didn't see me or hear me.
	Right, oh no, and so you were angry, frustrated?
	Yeah, and so I had a roommate who was a 68-year-old Frenchman who spoke English, a very nice man, and I turned to him and I was screaming and yelling in his face, what's going on here?
	You know, why are they doing this?
	What's that in the bed?
	And stuff like that.
	And he stared through me from my point of view, pretending that he couldn't see me or hear me.
	Uh-huh.
	Just getting into a rage about, you know, this and I kept thinking this whole thing's crazy.
	And it had not yet occurred to you that you couldn't be seen?
	No, not at all, because I felt so real.
	Sure.
	And I could touch things and feel things.
	I was completely... Gotcha.
	Corporal, whatever.
	And I heard people outside the room and they were calling me by name in English saying, Howard, you've got to come with us now.
	Hurry up.
	We've been waiting for you.
	It's time to go.
	Let's go.
	So I went over to the room and there were people out in the hallway.
	People?
	Yeah.
	There was a small number of them, men and women, and it was very dim out in the hallway.
	The room was bright and well lit, but the hallway was very gray and indistinct, like a really bad TV picture.
	I said, are you from the surgeon?
	I said, I'm really sick.
	I'm supposed to have surgery.
	I've been waiting for hours.
	I need to have this operation.
	Has the doctor come to the hospital?
	I said, hurry up.
	We've been waiting a long time for you.
	We've got to go now.
	Let's go.
	Did you recognize these people at all?
	No.
	They're very indistinct.
	You say indistinct.
	That's interesting.
	You mean indistinct in form?
	Yeah, shadowy.
	Shadowy.
	Very interesting way to put it.
	Reverend, hold on.
	We'll be right back.
	There is a journey that lies directly ahead.
	My guest is the Reverend Howard Storm.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 3rd, 2001.
	Never meaning to send Beauty I'd always missed
	With these eyes before Just what the truth is
	I can't say anymore Cause I love you, yes I love you
	Oh, I love you Yes
	I'm so sorry for the mistakes I've made I'm so sorry for the mistakes I've made
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 3rd, 2001.
	My guest is Reverend Howard Storm, and we're actually at the very beginning of a journey to hell, if you think you can handle it.
	Fascinating stuff.
	We'll get right back to it.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 3rd, 2001.
	Alright, once again, Reverend Storm.
	Welcome back, Reverend.
	I do have, if I can ask one question before we continue, just because I know where we're going.
	You were an atheist, and you were Doing what I suppose a lot of people do at that age.
	But because of where we're going here, I mean, were you a really bad person?
	I don't know how we're going to define bad here, but I mean, were you a terrible sinner?
	Were you really out there an awful person or just sort of an average person?
	No, I thought of myself as a good person.
	As a good person?
	And I think a lot of people, well, some people thought I was a nice guy and some people thought I was a jerk, but... Well, like life.
	Yeah, it was... I didn't break the law.
	You weren't abducting people?
	You weren't doing bad crimes or anything like that?
	Just sort of an average guy?
	No, I was doing what I assumed everybody in our culture was doing, trying to have a good life.
	I had my friends and we drank and laughed and told jokes.
	I had a job and I worked hard and had a family and was providing for them so I thought I
	well. Dutch, okay, back to the hospital room and now you're outside the hospital room,
	you're in the corridor and there are what you described almost as shadow beings, indistinct
	beings beckoning you to come forward or come with them.
	Right, and we start walking down the hall of the hospital and at some point I became aware
	that the hallway of the hospital was kind of endless and there weren't any walls or ceiling
	or lights or anything, it We're moving through a space now without any distinction at all.
	It's just endless space.
	If I were to try and duplicate this part of the journey, I would have to walk.
	Maybe a hundred miles or something.
	It just went on and on and on and on for what seemed like not just hours, but days or weeks.
	Do you remember during that time, considering whether you were, I mean, were you intellectualizing at all?
	Thinking, gee, where am I going?
	Who are these people?
	Why am I doing this?
	Is this such a smart idea?
	Were you doing any of that sort of thinking?
	Yeah, at first.
	My assumption was that these were people from the hospital who were taking me to surgery.
	Right.
	And then after a while, it was like, this is not working out.
	This is definitely not the way to surgery.
	And I don't think this is even the hospital.
	Right.
	I don't know what this is.
	And then I would start to ask them questions, and they would say to me, shut up.
	Don't ask questions.
	You don't need to know anything.
	And then from that to they started talking about me, like, you know, he thinks he's so
	great, you know, who does he think he is and stuff like that.
	And then I would hear people say, shh, don't scare him, don't scare him off.
	And so of course I'm going from very worried to extremely paranoid, you know, what is going
	on here?
	And it's getting, as we're walking along, it's getting darker and darker and pretty
	soon it's just abject darkness and there are now a lot of people around me.
	At first there was a few, now there's a big crowd in this darkness and I'm terrified.
	And I said, I'm not going any further.
	And they said, you're almost there.
	And they start to push and pull at me to take me further into this darkness.
	And I tried to fight back with them and I felt very I felt very strong, I felt very alive, and I was punching
	and hitting and hitting.
	It was a real physical battle.
	Yeah, and there was this mob of people all around me.
	If they had wanted to annihilate me, they could have just done it and it would have
	been over with.
	But instead they were toying with me, playing with me, tormenting me.
	Every once in a while someone would get a piece of my ear and just rip it off.
	Someone's finger would be in my eye and someone would be gnawing on my Achilles tendon and I'm trying to hit back and fight back.
	It was ultimately hopeless because there were so many of them and one of me.
	Around all this was this level of noise of their laughter.
	and their insults and their delight at my struggle.
	The more I struggled, the more it gave them what I hesitate to call pleasure, but gave them enjoyment out of my pain.
	This just went on.
	People asked me what it felt like.
	It felt like what you think it would feel like.
	Being beaten and ripped and bitten and clawed and scratched and pushed.
	Was there at this point absolute darkness?
	Could you make these beings out at all?
	You know, just a physical fight?
	Just complete darkness.
	They just felt like people.
	And what I remember from that is teeth and nails.
	Yeah.
	And then In the midst of this, they were doing worse things to me.
	Things to humiliate me and tear me down, not just physically, but psychologically.
	I don't go there.
	I mean, I don't talk about that stuff.
	Why not?
	It's too painful.
	Was it personal stuff?
	Yeah.
	Too personal?
	You know, I only in this area have Movies as a reference and a very great man that I interviewed named Father Malachi Martin, who's now passed away.
	He was an exorcist, a Catholic priest, and he said that frequently during an exorcism The kind of personal, psychological battle that you're talking about would occur.
	Very, very personal.
	You know, hitting all the hottest buttons that you could possibly hit.
	Yeah.
	That kind of thing, then.
	Uh-huh.
	Yep.
	And, uh, eventually I was just so broken physically and emotionally that I was in I'm trying to make myself as small as possible, sort of trying to form a ball on the ground of that place and people were kicking me and I was so weakened by all of this and exhausted by all of this that I could barely even moan and I heard my voice but I didn't say it and I don't know how this happened but I heard
	what sounded like my voice say pray to God and I thought to myself what a stupid idea I don't believe in God and in fact I had probably said my last prayer when I was a teenager this was more than 20 years later so that just wasn't part of who I was or what I did and then a second time the same thing I heard a voice my voice say pray to God and I thought I don't even know how to pray.
	I don't know how to ask for help.
	Part of the person that I was was someone who never asked anybody for help.
	I was an independent, self-sufficient guy who didn't need people.
	A third time I prayed to God and I was thinking, what did I say when I was a kid who And I got all confused because I thought that to pray was to recite some memorized verses.
	That's what I'd done as a child, and I was trying to remember what that was.
	Right.
	Without intending it.
	Something official.
	Yeah.
	Right.
	Without intending it, I kind of murmured some things, and what it was sort of coming out like was, Glory, glory, hallelujah.
	His truth goes marching on.
	I pledge allegiance to the Father.
	It all got mixed up, huh?
	What?
	All got mixed up.
	Yeah, our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.
	But when I mentioned anything that had to do with God, the people that were around me became inflamed and they were screaming at me in extremely vulgar, obscene terms that there was no God, nobody could hear me, and they
	were going to really hurt me now.
	What encouraged me to try and remember some phrases that had God in them was the fact
	that they hated it so much I was finally able to get back at them.
	And then I noticed that any mention of God actually pushed them away from me and drove
	them back into that darkness.
	So I was trying to remember stuff and it was just all mixed up.
	So at this point, it's cause and effect.
	In other words, you suddenly discovered you had some little weapon or some way to fight back.
	Yeah.
	It didn't have anything to do with faith or anything.
	It was just like, this works.
	I'm going with it.
	Right.
	Oh yeah.
	Whatever works in a situation like that.
	Yeah.
	And so I'm trying to Remember things that have God in them and they're screaming and yelling at me and backing up and backing up further and further in darkness and then I realized that the only thing I could hear anymore was me and I stopped and I listened and there was just silence around me so I begin to consider my situation and I can't, I'm too broken and ripped up to crawl
	If I could crawl, where would I go?
	There's absolutely no sense of how I'd gotten there or where I was.
	Just darkness.
	I'm all alone in this place, and so I'm starting to think about my situation.
	Since I didn't have any religious background at that time, what I thought had happened to me was that somehow I had gone down the sewer pipe of the universe, the cesspool, And this is where the human garbage goes.
	Could you walk around?
	You were in utter darkness.
	Could you... I think a natural thing for a human would be to try and define the boundaries of where they were.
	If you really thought you were alone, you'd try to sort of walk up and... I couldn't get up.
	I couldn't even crawl.
	So you were in the fetal position?
	Yeah.
	Alright.
	And I was all broken and torn.
	And I thought about my life.
	And it all seemed so sad because I had wanted to be this great artist and instead I've been a mediocre artist at a little nothing university in the Midwest and I wasn't a big shot.
	I thought about how I'd failed as a father and as a husband and as a son to my parents.
	When I thought over my life it all seemed so pitiful and stupid and such a waste and it And I lived all that to end up here.
	What a stupid, sorry, pathetic little life I had.
	Yeah, the trouble is you're describing a great number of us out here.
	Yeah.
	And it just seems so pointless and empty and worthless.
	I also was thinking about the situation that I was in and that there was no way out of it for me, except that I knew that those people were going to come back.
	I really didn't want to be the victim of their sadism anymore.
	So I thought if there was some way that I could get up my strength, if they came back, I would be as vicious and as cruel As they were.
	As they were.
	And instead of being the victim, I would become a victimizer.
	In other words, I would become one of them.
	You know, if you can't fight it, join it.
	Let's find somebody else and kick them around.
	And that wasn't very pleasing to me either, because I really didn't want to be part of their world and their life, which was just sort of gnawing You know, and seeking sensation.
	May I ask another question?
	Yeah.
	If you found yourself in this situation, one obvious conclusion you would come to is that you were dead, or that, I mean, obviously you're no longer in the world that you had known, so you would have to at least intellectually consider the fact that you had died.
	Did that ever occur to you in the whole time?
	Well, the thing that was strange was since I didn't Believed that there was life after death. I I knew that I
	was alive, but I knew that I wasn't in the world and So I thought it was like
	somehow I had left the world and I would never be a part of the world again one of the most
	painful things in this whole experience was the realization I was never gonna see my wife my kids my parents
	Like you know my dog, but that's another way of saying that you realize that
	You were off earth, and you know short of a shuttle trip or whatever
	Huh. Huh. Huh.
	There's no other way to get off earth alive, anyway.
	Yeah.
	But the word dead didn't really occur to me because I was alive.
	Because you felt so alive.
	Because you had such a physical presence and you could feel all these injuries.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I'm with you.
	Okay.
	That makes sense.
	And the saddest conclusion of all that I came to was that Somehow I belonged in this place.
	I hated the place and I didn't want to be there, but I knew that I had a certain kind of affinity for the people who attacked me.
	My sense was that they were people who had lived life like I had lived it, basically people who had lived for their own gratification, and now I was with them, except that there was nothing I'm good anymore. Just emptiness and darkness and hopelessness.
	So the only gratification left was just sort of chewing on each other. Brother.
	And my sense was that not only would this go on forever and ever, but that it was going to get
	worse. I didn't know how it would be worse, but. But it is, you know, chewing on each other.
	That's almost a metaphor for what a lot of people do in life.
	Chew on each other. But, you know, is that really it? I guess, you know, in your case,
	it's a ticket to hell, but it doesn't seem like it's deserved.
	I'm...
	I certainly don't know God as you know God, Reverend, but it seems to me that a man who supported his family and was basically good, maybe took a drink, did a little running around, I mean, that just doesn't seem like it ought to get you a ticket down there.
	Well, what I learned later in this experience was that if we have love in us, and I'm not just talking about self-love, but real love for other people, And give ourselves to other people.
	That draws us to God.
	The only thing we care about is ourselves.
	But you were a family man.
	You loved your wife, I presume?
	Your children?
	You said you missed them?
	Yeah, but the sad thing is, and I'm ashamed of this and I'm proud of it, is that I thought of my wife and my kids as extensions of my ego.
	You know, my kids were beautifully behaved in public, like in restaurants.
	Right.
	Because I didn't want them to make me look bad.
	You know what I mean?
	Sure.
	And so when my kids did well, it was because they made me look good.
	And I was glad for that.
	And if they got out of line, you know, I came down on them really hard.
	So you're saying you were leading an egocentric life?
	Right.
	Totally self-centered.
	You know everything was about me and what I've learned you know as an as an artist was I thought that was the way to be that's you know all the great artists are big egomaniacs you know nobody ever heard about artists that you know cared about anything but you know sometimes have kind of crazed yeah that's the life they lead so yes yes and so I just thought that was um you know growing up I more and more sort of bought into that idea of like um The world revolves around me and I'm the measure of everything.
	If you get in my way, I'd go over you.
	Yes, I'm familiar with the philosophy, believe me.
	For example, I have the philosophy that I live and let live.
	I really feel that, and I don't ever go intentionally after other people.
	But if they come after me, I have no hesitation whatsoever in taking the war to them, if you follow me.
	And I guess you do, because that's the way you were, too.
	There's a whole other world out there where that type of person goes, but all the good things that we enjoy in this world aren't there.
	Because I didn't realize it, but they're all gifts.
	Huh.
	Alright, we are at a break point, uh, Reverend, and it's just as well, because I need a break for a second listening to this.
	And I suspect a lot of people out there do, too, as you reflect on what he just said about Who he was.
	And who we all are.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 3, 2001.
	This is a test.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 3rd, 2001.
	The Reverend Howard Storm is my guest.
	Have you ever heard anything like this before?
	I think not.
	We'll get right back to it.
	Now we take you back to the night of May 3rd, 2001, on Arkvell Somewhere in Time.
	The End.
	Thanks for watching.
	Once again, back to the Reverend Howard Storm.
	Reverend, welcome back.
	Okay, so here you are, all curled up like a ball in the middle of nothingness, that you certainly had not computed in your head yet was hell.
	Or maybe it wasn't hell.
	Yet.
	I think there's a lot of levels to hell.
	I think there's an almost unlimited variety of hellish experiences that people might have when they die, and this was just my health.
	Yours.
	Bad enough for me.
	Thank you.
	Anyway, please continue.
	And this is really hard to explain or understand, but I feel like I was there for an eternity.
	I don't know how long I was in that situation all alone, thinking about my life, but there was no sense of any limit to it.
	It just seemed like an extremely long time without any measure whatsoever and feeling so sorry for myself and hopeless and desperately trying to find a way out of it and there was no way out.
	I recalled in my memory myself as a child in a Sunday school classroom singing, Jesus Loves Me.
	I was feeling what I had felt as a child, this sense that there was something very good and beautiful and powerful out there in the world somewhere that cared about me.
	And I very much wanted something above and beyond myself to care about me.
	So not knowing if this was just a childhood fantasy or not, I yelled out into the darkness,
	Jesus, please save me, with no, I had no sense of whether anyone would hear that or if there
	was such a thing or person at all, just in the desperate hope that that might be true.
	And when I did that, a tiny little what appeared to be a star began to shine in that darkness and very rapidly got bigger and brighter and came to me.
	And as its illumination shined on me, I could see that I looked like road fuel, this gore and ripped and filth.
	And I felt hands come out of this light and touch me, and all of the wounds and the filth on me just began to disappear.
	More importantly, inside of me, all of the pain, all of the despair went away and I was filled with ecstasy that I can't begin to describe.
	The hands reached under me and picked me up.
	I was embraced in this impossibly brilliant white light by what felt like a person.
	He was stroking my back very gently like a mother or a father would with a child.
	I began to cry and that was significant for me because in my adult life I had only cried
	like maybe two or three times because I grew up in a generation where real men don't cry.
	So I was sort of crying all the tears that I had held in all of my life.
	We began to rise up out of that darkness and I think we were going faster and faster.
	I was trying to get my composure together enough to I was trying to stop crying enough to see where we were going and I looked out and I saw that way off in the distance there was a
	point or concentration of more light and we were moving towards that.
	There was all this activity around it coming and going and we were moving towards that.
	As we moved towards it I suddenly had the realization that that was like God or heaven
	or something.
	I thought to myself, I'm such a piece of garbage, I've made a terrible mistake.
	I don't belong here.
	And with that, we stopped.
	And for the first time, this person, whom I refer to as Jesus, spoke to me.
	And he said, we don't make mistakes.
	You do belong here.
	And then we began to converse, and I immediately realized that he could hear everything I thought.
	And then he would project his voice into my head, and I wasn't hearing him through my ears, I was just hearing him speak into my mind.
	Right.
	And he was trying to put me at ease, and he said he had friends that he wanted me to meet, so he called out with musical tones and about seven people, or beings of light, these brilliant white light People came and were hanging in space and they hovered or hung around us.
	Then they tried to put me at ease.
	One of the things they said to me was, Do you want to see us in our human form?
	I said, I hate people.
	When I say I said, I actually never said anything other than what I thought.
	I thought, I hate people.
	I never want to see people again.
	I said, Why would I want to see people?
	You are so much more beautiful than people.
	They said, That's okay.
	Whatever.
	One of the funny things that happened was I realized that at this point I wasn't wearing
	any clothes and I was trying to cover myself with my hands.
	They were amused at that and they said, Don't worry about it.
	We've seen it before.
	It's no big deal.
	You can relax.
	Bye!
	They said that they wanted to show me my life.
	So that was fun because, hey, it's going to be about me.
	This is great.
	I'm getting all this attention.
	So we started off and we were watching little scenes.
	These were sort of like they were projecting from their memory or record of my life, these scenes of my life, starting off as a baby.
	You know, I see my mother and father playing with me and it just was like, to see my parents young and happy, you know, and playing with me as a baby was just so beautiful.
	And I saw myself growing up and swimming at the beach and, you know, I'm playing ball, you know, on the street in the neighborhood and everything's delightful and wonderful.
	And then I see, as my life's going on, things beginning to sort of deteriorate, you know, and this family fights and I'm sort of hiding in my room because I don't want to get You know, clobbered because of what's going on in the household and pulling back emotionally from my family and the world as a sort of defense mechanism.
	I'm skipping over it.
	I'm not going to tell you the whole story of my life, but I see God gives me the gift
	of a woman who falls in love with me, who I fall in love with.
	I was more interested in the lust part than the love part.
	We got married and we had children.
	I see myself just pulling back from people emotionally.
	I don't want to be involved with people because if you're involved with people you're going to have pain.
	You're going to get hurt.
	So I'm becoming more and more hard hearted.
	I have a lot of friends that are in the business and I have a lot of friends that are in the
	business and I have a lot of friends that are in the business and I have a lot of friends
	that are in the business and I have a lot of friends that are in the business and I
	have a lot of friends that are in the business and I have a lot of friends that are in the
	business and I have a lot of friends that are in the business and I have a lot of friends
	that are in the business and I have a lot of friends that are in the business and I
	have a lot of friends that are in the business and I have a lot of friends that are in the
	business and I have a lot of friends that are in the business and I have a lot of friends
	That way I will get my way, being kind of like a little mini-tyrant in my little world.
	It's very painful to see all this in this company because they were sharing with me their feelings of extreme disappointment because what they were Interested in as we watch my life was where I had been kind loving compassionate One of the scenes that so you you felt their disappointment not judgment or were you feeling judgment or were you judging yourself?
	More of me judging myself because they were sharing with me that I was Completely failing What I had been created for and what they had expected of me.
	Well, that doesn't sound so good.
	Like, for example, my father and I, as I became an adult, our relationship went from bad to worse to the point where we no longer even had a relationship.
	I'd always thought all my life that my father had been a big jerk and I'd been the victim of a really lousy father, but what I saw in this whole experience was that I had contributed to the failure in our relationship.
	Sure.
	I had gone out of my way to antagonize him and to be unsympathetic to him, you know.
	So I had to take some responsibility for the failure of that relationship.
	But see, you're not describing anything so bad at all that almost everybody can't in some way or another identify with what you're saying right now with respect to their life.
	Yeah, and I think by our The standards of our culture, what we call good, isn't good enough.
	It's not what we were created for and what God expects of us.
	God expects a whole lot more than what we're giving back to God.
	At several points I said, okay, that's enough.
	I don't want to see any more of this.
	I get it.
	I said, no, you've got to watch this.
	One of the things that happened that was funny is every time we'd go Close to a period of my life where I had won a prize or an honor or a promotion, you know, or some kind of achievement.
	They would like to skip it.
	I'd say, hey, wait a minute, you just missed, you know, you just skipped over something.
	This was like really big, you know.
	Plus point over there and going right past it.
	Yeah, and they'd say, no, that was nothing.
	Watch this.
	I'd show a scene of me blowing off a student who had come to see me for some sympathetic
	advice.
	I was just like, you know, I'm thinking in my head while the student is whining on about
	their sad little love life.
	I'm thinking, oh man, they don't pay me enough to listen to this garbage all day long.
	Yes, I'm with you.
	What they had hoped I would have done was to have cared about that person, you know,
	given them a little time and attention.
	My job wasn't to fix them, but to simply be there for them, to care about them, be compassionate.
	My life review, as it progressed, was increasingly a disaster.
	I'm really embarrassed and ashamed.
	The only good part of it was that I knew that The company that I was in, Jesus and the Angels, that they loved me.
	In spite of the fact that they knew everything about me.
	They knew all my dirty little secrets and all the rotten things I've done in the world, and they still love me.
	Although, I can really say that they hated things that I did.
	They still love me as a person, just as I love my kids.
	No matter what they do, even if they make me really angry or Displeased with him.
	I still love him.
	Right.
	And I knew that I was loved, even though... In that same sense.
	Yeah.
	Yes.
	So, um, when it was over, I was like, really relieved.
	And it was like, boy, I never want to do bad again.
	Whatever you do, don't show me my life.
	I'm not looking forward to it myself.
	Yeah.
	I mean, there are things that I know that I'm not going to want to review.
	Yeah.
	And, uh, They said, ìDo you have any questions?î And I went, ìQuestions?î I said, ìI got about a million questions.î They said, ìGo ahead.
	Ask anything you want.î So I had the most wonderful experience of asking questions and they would answer everything I asked and they were very kind teachers because the things that I asked they would Try and explain it in a way that I could understand, of course.
	The audience is obviously going to want to know what you did ask and what kind of responses you got.
	Anything that we should know?
	Well, there's such a range of things.
	I could just, you know, go on for days about this, but I could give you a sample.
	Please do, yes.
	In terms of, like a personal question, I said, why did God make me a person who Was never satisfied with what I was told.
	I was always trying to find out more and more and more.
	Good question.
	Why did God make me a person who just wondered about everything all the time and never seemed to be able to just accept things like other people could just accept it.
	I couldn't accept it.
	Right.
	Really good question.
	They said that was a really special gift from God.
	The only problem was that I had misused the gift because the purpose of having that kind
	of a mind was to be able to discover the truth.
	They said that whenever I found the truth I would just say, ìWell, thatís not it,î
	and Iíd keep going.
	So instead of seeking the truth and finding the truth, I turned seeking into its own end.
	I was just always questioning and never receiving the answer, even when it was given to me.
	Bye.
	Right.
	So it was like nothing ever satisfied or made me happy.
	It was like, my wife loves me.
	Does she really love me?
	I don't know.
	She loves me.
	Why does she love me?
	Why would she love me?
	She doesn't love me.
	How could she love me?
	You know what I mean?
	Sure.
	When the fact was, she did love me and had stuck by me for 20 years.
	It was like obvious to everybody in the world except to me.
	That sort of thing.
	So I asked them, this was in 1985, and one of the things that I'd gone up with was the very real possibility of a nuclear war that would annihilate the whole planet.
	Yes.
	And so I said, is there going to be a nuclear war?
	And they said, absolutely not.
	I said, well, why not?
	And they said, God's not going to allow it.
	And I said to them, I said, You guys don't get it.
	There's like 40,000 nuclear weapons.
	You really?
	You said that to them?
	Yeah.
	Well, I was really comfortable with it.
	I mean, these people were good.
	You know, these are really... There's 40,000 weapons poised and ready to go.
	And even if no one actually planned a nuclear war, it's just inevitable that somebody's going to accidentally set something off, and then there's going to be a nuclear ascent, and the whole world's going to be annihilated.
	It's not going to happen.
	God's not going to allow it.
	So is God going to take God's hand and just, like, stop the missiles when they're launched?
	And they said, if that's what it's going to take, God'll do it.
	And they said, the planet doesn't belong to people.
	They said, the planet and all that's in it belongs to God, and God cares about all the creatures in the world, not just people, and God's not going to allow human beings to destroy the Earth.
	And it's like, Oh, okay.
	Good answer again, if true.
	Reverend, hold on, we're at the bottom of the hour.
	Oh, this is really getting good.
	So, he actually had the opportunity to ask questions.
	And one of them was about nuclear war.
	We will continue with all of this in a moment.
	My guest is the Reverend Howard Storm.
	He's in Kentucky right now.
	As a church in Norwood, Ohio.
	We'll be right back.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 3rd, 2001.
	Ah ah
	ah Be it sight, sound, smell, or touch, there's something
	inside that we need so much.
	The sight of a touch, or the scent of a sound, or the strength of an oak when it moves deep in the ground.
	The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
	Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing.
	To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing.
	To have all these things in our memories home.
	From the useless to the powerless to the far Ride, ride where she's sold
	Take this place on this trip Just for me
	Ride, take a free ride Take a place on my seat
	It's for free I've worked like a slave for years
	Worked so hard just to win my fears Had to end my life, but oh well
	But by now I know I should've cried Ride, take a free ride
	Take a place on my seat It's for free
	Ride, on my next race Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time
	Tonight's program originally aired May 3rd, 2001.
	Really interesting, really interesting watching the reactions on the Fast Blast to The Reverend Storm.
	There's every range you can imagine, from thank you, to I've always wondered, to It worries me, too.
	Boy, am I angry.
	This is just a religious advertisement, too.
	You name it, the entire range of spectrum of reaction you might get to a story like this.
	And I've never had one told on the air like this.
	No story like this, certainly.
	And so it's kind of interesting to observe the reaction out there.
	It ranges from joy, To, I guess, dispassionate interest.
	Passionate interest to anger.
	He's written a book called, My Descent into Death and the Message of Love, which brought me back.
	And I just went myself to Amazon.com and it received a five-star review.
	You know, they take an average of all the customer reviews who have read the book.
	And it's got a full five-star review on Amazon.com.
	Anyway, that is the title of his book, He Wouldn't Tell You I Will, My Descent Into Death, and The Message of Love, which brought me back.
	Check it out yourself on Amazon.
	We'll be right back.
	Now we take you back to the night of May 3rd, 2001 on Arkbells Somewhere in Time.
	Arkbells Somewhere in Time.
	Somebody comments he's giving us a lot more detail than he was able to do on Oprah.
	He was on Oprah, I guess, and of course he is.
	This is radio, not television.
	You're able to get into a lot more detail.
	Reverend, welcome back.
	So you were allowed to ask questions.
	That has got to be one of the most unusual opportunities a human has ever had.
	Nuclear war would not be allowed.
	Anything else?
	Let's see.
	Like I said, I think I asked thousands of questions.
	I asked them what's going to happen to the United States, and they said that this country had been given more than any other nation in the history of the world, and that this was a gift from God, and that God expected us to do a lot with this gift, and we were not doing it.
	And God was very displeased with America in that what God was expecting America to do was to be the moral leader of the world, a place where educators, engineers, scientists, teachers would stream out of this country and bring the rest of the world up to the kind of standards that we enjoy.
	We were more or less exploiting the rest of the world for our own.
	Gee, the last time God got disoriented in a specific area was Pompeii.
	Yeah.
	And so I said, what's going to happen unless America changes its ways?
	America is going to lose all that it's been given.
	And I said, well, how?
	And I said, economically, that our economic system would fail and we would sink into chaos.
	And that the rest of the world would turn their backs on us because although we are greatly admired by the rest of the world for our prosperity and our wealth, that we're deeply resented because the rest of the world knows that we are basically taking advantage of our position of power in this world.
	And that God wants the United States to be a force for good in the world instead of just So as your individual ego was demonstrated to you, really that was sort of answering that the national ego is as much a problem.
	Yeah.
	Gotcha.
	And I asked him questions about religion.
	Like, for example, I said, which is the best religion?
	And I was expecting them to say, Presbyterian or Methodist or Catholic or something.
	Well, I would be interested in the answer.
	And the answer was, the one that brings you closest to God.
	That's exactly what they said.
	And I said, well, which is the one that brings you closest to God then?
	Yes.
	And they said, it depends on the culture and the tradition that the person was raised in.
	And I said, well, are religions all the same then?
	No, they said there's good religions that have good and bad people in them, and there's bad religions with good and bad people in them, and it really doesn't have to do with religion.
	It's about what a person does with it.
	So you can have a perfectly awful religion and have a really good person doing good in it, and you can conversely have a really fine religion and people tearing it down.
	And that has been my experience since then, that religions are not Inherently good or bad, it's what the individual does with it that makes it either worthwhile or a detriment to human progress in respect to love.
	I asked them about what happens to people when they die, and they said that when a good person dies that God sends angels and or emissaries, and the emissaries might be Loved ones that have preceded them, like, for example, your grandmother or parent or brother or sister or something.
	Right.
	To meet that person.
	Very common in NDE stories.
	Yeah.
	And that they would then escort that person towards heaven.
	And as they progressed towards heaven, people would become transformed in all of the worries and doubts and places where they were deficient in life.
	would be changed and they would become in time fully loving people, the children of God and that eventually that they would meet Jesus and they would in time be presented to God.
	And I said, and if not?
	And they said, well, you know what happens otherwise.
	And I said, well, what determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?
	And they said, well, if a person is loving and has been loving in their life, they will go to God.
	And if they haven't been loving, they'll go away from God.
	And there's not an alternative to those two choices.
	You're either moving towards God or away from God.
	Nothing in between.
	And the journey to God doesn't necessarily happen very quickly.
	In the case of Mother Teresa, she would be on the express route, you know, a non-stop train to God.
	Someone like me, you know, I'd be on the milk train, you know, making all the local stops while I became a better person in the process.
	Okay.
	So, again, what an incredible opportunity to be able to ask all of these questions.
	I don't suppose you posed one about Buddhists and others who have faith, but not in the God that you're talking about right now, who had Jesus on Earth, you know, and all the rest of that.
	No, I didn't.
	Well, I'm going to get to have this experience again sometime when I leave this world.
	You may not be able to come back and tell us about it, though.
	Right.
	But at the time, I had no religious background.
	I never read the Bible or anything.
	Gotcha.
	I didn't go to church.
	Gotcha.
	I didn't ask really good questions.
	There were real kind of dumb, but that's where I was at that time.
	The outcome of all this was that I finally said to myself, okay, I'm ready to go to heaven.
	I want to go to heaven, you know.
	Can I go to heaven now?
	Enough.
	And they said, no.
	No.
	You're going back to the world.
	To the world.
	So we had a huge argument.
	And I was trying to convince them that it was in my best interest that I go to heaven, and they were trying to convince me that that just wasn't going to happen, and that I had to come back to the world.
	Like for example, I said to them, if you send me back to another world, I'm going to make lots of mistakes and I'll end up right back where I was, and what would be the point of all this if I'm going to go back to another world and be a perfect human being?
	I said, if you send me back, am I going to be perfect?
	And they said, no.
	I said, so I'm going to make all these mistakes all over again?
	And they said, yes, we know you're going to make mistakes.
	That's the nature of human beings.
	They make lots of mistakes.
	At this time try and learn from your mistakes instead of just repeating them over and over and over again and just keeping doing the same thing.
	Same thing.
	Yeah, so they can be learning experiences and you can actually become a better person by learning from your mistakes.
	Don't worry about your mistakes.
	If I took my mistakes to God and confessed my mistakes that God would forgive me and that would be the end of them.
	They wouldn't be held against me.
	I said that to them.
	I said, you can't send me back to the world because the world is a horrible, cruel, ugly place full of evil people.
	Why would you send me back there?
	And they said, well, there is that element in the world, but the world is also full of beauty and goodness and love and really fine people.
	And I said, well, that wasn't my experience.
	And they said, well, that's right.
	That wasn't your experience because that's what You are and on the inside will attract the experience of life around you, so that if you're loving on the inside, you'll attract loving people to you.
	If you look for beauty, you'll find beauty, but if you are cruel on the inside, you're going to find cruelty.
	If you're looking for ugliness, you'll certainly find ugliness in the world.
	Everything that I brought up, they defeated my final Really big argument was I said, you can't send me back to the world because I'll die in the world of a broken heart because I said to them, nobody has ever known me or loved me or cared about me the way that you do and I can't live without this.
	They said to me, haven't you learned anything?
	Don't you know that we've always been with you?
	I've been around you and known you and cared about you and we always will be with you.
	And I said, well, I never saw you before.
	I never talked to you before.
	I never knew you were there.
	How will I know you back in the world?
	Will I be able to see you?
	Will I be able to talk to you?
	And they said, no.
	I said, well then, when I get back there, how long is it going to be before I think you're not with me and I'll feel alone like I did before?
	They said, well, If you pray, sometimes you might just know in your heart that we're with you.
	And that sometimes, not when you want it, but when we feel like you need it, we'll let you know that we're around.
	And I said to them, do you promise that?
	And they said, yes.
	And I said, each of you promise me that you will And when you were back, what was your circumstance?
	I was like a fish out of water, gasping for air.
	you will be with me forever.
	They said we are and then I was back.
	And when you were back what was your circumstance?
	I was like a fish out of water gasping for air and the pain that I had been in earlier
	was I was returned right back to that same messed up body.
	Then I was gasping for breath and immediately the nurse who had been in the room a little
	bit earlier came back into the room and said a doctor has arrived at the hospital and we
	are going to take you to surgery.
	They evicted my wife from the room and they prepared me for surgery.
	As I passed her on the gurney on the way to surgery I looked at her and said everything
	is going to be good from now on.
	And she just cried more because she thought, you know, this is like some brave words.
	She didn't realize that I really meant that.
	Right.
	And when I was in the recovery area after the surgery, this was now on Sunday morning, she came and saw me and she said, Howard, and I said, It's all love.
	And she said, I love you.
	And I said, I know you love me, but it's all love.
	And she said, well, there's people that love you.
	And I said, I know there's people that love you, but you don't understand.
	It's about love.
	That's what it's all about.
	And she said, oh, that's nice, dear.
	And I said, it's huge.
	I said, it's bigger than the whole ocean.
	And you've got to go into the ocean to experience the love.
	And she said, you need to get some rest, dear.
	You know and I realized that this was going to be very difficult trying to explain this to anyone.
	Indeed.
	And so from that day on I tried to tell her what had happened to me and she had a great deal of difficulty at first for about a year or two believing me but now I think she does believe me.
	You proceeded, obviously, to change your life.
	You became ordained, and I take it by then she knew you were pretty serious?
	Yeah, but this was a long process.
	I mean, I went through a while of being a religious fanatic and managed to drive everybody away from me and off religion.
	I probably did more damage, you know, during my fanatical period than many people do in a lifetime.
	I'm trying to convert people, which doesn't work.
	Reverend, I'm kind of curious, and I have to ask for the audience, how do you know that all of this wasn't just a tortured dream from somebody who had passed out in a terrible, painful, physical condition?
	What makes you know that it was real?
	I knew that something had happened to me that was really, really important and I needed
	to pay attention to it.
	But the problem was that I knew that if I were to accept what I had experienced, I was
	going to have to totally change my entire life, which I really didn't want to do because
	I had spent 38 years working very hard to create a life and now it was all in jeopardy.
	That seemed like a really bad idea.
	Why change everything?
	Right.
	But on the other hand... Unless I'm absolutely sure this was real.
	But on the other hand, the angels and Jesus did reappear to me after the experience, and they did things that saved my life afterwards.
	It became basically impossible for me because they were intervening in my life in miraculous ways.
	To do anything else?
	To do anything else.
	You know, I can't deny it.
	Well, that would do it alright.
	I suppose otherwise you might eventually talk yourself into the fact that it had been just a bad dream of some sort and revert to the easier way of living here on Earth.
	But you say they came again.
	Yep.
	That would do it.
	That would do it.
	And so, in a long process, then, you entered the seminary, I guess.
	Well, first I discovered church, and was in church for a while, and thought that church was made up of a bunch of fumbling ordinary human beings, but they were pursuing something really worthwhile.
	over a period of years decided I really wanted to be a part of that.
	You know, um...
	Well, what, and then you wrote a book about it.
	Yeah, um, last year a publisher from England called me out of the clear blue sky and asked me to write a book, so I
	did.
	It was kind of fun.
	What an incredible story.
	Absolutely an astounding story.
	And I've never heard anybody tell one like it.
	I want to thank you for being here tonight, and I'm probably going to sit and talk to my audience about this now.
	And see what they have to say, but it's a remarkable story.
	And by the way, again, you know your book got five stars at Amazon.com.
	That's great.
	I didn't know that.
	Oh, well, I just took a look myself.
	It's very well reviewed, Reverend.
	So listen, thank you for being here tonight.
	Thank you for telling the story.
	And as I told you, I'm getting reactions on the computer, wild reactions in every direction.
	I imagine we're going to get that on the phone, too.
	So Bless you and thank you for being here tonight, sir.
	Thank you, Arthur.
	It was a real pleasure talking with you.
	Good night.
	We'll be right back.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 3rd, 2001.
	I stopped to know the man along the way Hoping to find some old forgotten words
	Or ancient melodies He turned to me as if to say
	Hurry boy, it's waiting there for you Gotta take the last to take me away from you
	There's nothing that I'm under Roll around by the wind Throw a dime in a spin
	I gave you love, I thought that we had made it to the top I gave you all I had to give
	Why did it have to stop?
	You've blown it all sky high By telling me a lie
	Without a reason why You've blown it all sky high
	You, you've blown it all sky high Our love happens to fly
	We could have touched the sky You've blown it all sky high
	Far around the world You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 3rd, 2001.
	You know, I just got an email from somebody.
	Let me roll back here and read it.
	It says the Reverend Howard Storm The bottom line to Storm's mumbo-jumbo is that there's no proof!
	The scientific method cannot be used on this because there are no facts to it.
	When proof is shown, then these nuts, he underlines, can put some weight behind their words.
	That's from Frank.
	Well, Frank, yes, you're right.
	There's no proof.
	And that actually applies to most things that we talk about here.
	It's simply hoisted up for your consideration.
	You listen to the man's story, listen to what he has to say, and you can dismiss it.
	And I can understand that for you it may be very comfortable and pleasing for you to do so, and I have no problem with you doing that.
	We just sort of allow these people to have their say.
	When I find an interesting story, I put it on the air, and you can do with it as you wish.
	You know, totally dismiss it as mumbo-jumbo, I think your words were.
	Uh, or you can consider it and sort of put it in a file, a gray area, I think Stanton Friedman would say, gray box.
	Or you can embrace it, or you can dismiss it.
	You can do anything you want with it.
	It's just a story I thought told in a very credible way.
	And that's it.
	And that's what a lot of things boil down to.
	There's very little absolute proof for a lot of what we talk about.
	It will always be so.
	Well, to the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art Bell.
	Thank you for taking my call.
	You bet.
	Where are you?
	This is Tawasi.
	I'm calling from Morrison, Colorado.
	Yes, Tawasi.
	I'm calling in with a comment and a question.
	Okay.
	My comment is that the story that Reverend Storm told... Yes.
	It was very similar to that story that you replayed of the young lady who had an NDE herself.
	Yes, it's as though she got to look into a couple of areas that he might have described.
	Right, only he was more like victimized.
	That's right.
	My question, though, is this.
	You, I know, have invested in renewable energy and I was curious, with the scaling back of funding for renewable energy, If you felt like it was a worthwhile investment for yourself, because George W. thinks that oil and nukes will be a better solution for us.
	Well, I don't care what he thinks.
	I've already made my decision with my money.
	And you think it's a good decision, then?
	Renewable energy?
	Yes.
	Yes, I think it's a good decision.
	For me personally, and for us as a nation.
	I'm so glad to hear that, because the public outcry on this has been amazingly small.
	And it's really disturbing to me as a parent because I have a child that's going to go into the, you know, in the next however many decades and she's going to have to breathe this bunk that they're producing with their fossil fuels.
	That's right.
	Those oil barons are really, I've had it up to here with them and that's pretty high.
	I hear you, sir.
	I'm with you all the way.
	And all I can say is I took a lot of money, more than I should have, and just did it.
	That's all.
	I don't know.
	I can't really, except for what I say, perhaps in some small way influence what people think.
	Well, I would really appreciate it if you would have a show about alternative energy.
	We had one.
	You missed it.
	Oh, was it recently?
	Very recently, yes.
	Oh, my goodness.
	So who's the guest?
	Harvey Wasserman was the guest from Greenpeace.
	Greenpeace.
	Yep.
	I know there's a magazine out there, Home Power Magazine.
	That's right.
	And I've heard the editor, the head editor, speak on a number of public radio programs.
	Well, he might be.
	I'd be glad to have him on.
	If somebody wants to put me in touch with him, I'll have him on.
	I'll see if I can get you his address.
	All right.
	Thank you.
	I'm a big advocate.
	And all you can do is, if you believe in something strongly enough, you take individual action.
	You know, and despite what people think, I don't make a great deal of money doing what I'm doing.
	I have intentionally not sought it out.
	I've gone for other things, and so I took a substantial amount of money, more than I should have, and more than No doubt will be returned to me for a significant amount of time and did it because I do believe in it.
	Solar power and wind power are absolutely real.
	They're only two alternatives but they're absolutely real.
	They work.
	I've got it here.
	I know.
	I have a sort of a dual track thought about the whole thing, and one is I realize that in the short term we must have oil, we must have coal, we may even be forced to drill in ANWR.
	A conversion of a nation's energy supply is not going to be an immediate thing, so we've got to continue to meet our demands in the short term.
	What bothers me is that in the long term, We have decided to put our head in the sand.
	And we've cut the funding for alternative fuel research in half.
	Now that's just plain nutsoid.
	As far as I'm concerned, absolutely nutty.
	But, it's what's going on.
	Wildcard Line, you're on, whoops, would have been, make it the first time caller line, you're on the air, hello.
	Hello?
	Yes, turn your radio off please.
	Yes, yes.
	Yes, hello.
	Yes, hello.
	Yes, this is Sam.
	Sam?
	And I listened to your program, and I think, you know, the Reverend was telling the truth, you know.
	So do I, but I mean, that's just, you know, as the caller, or as the emailer said, it's a lot of people will do what that emailer did, and they say, baloney, there's no proof, end of story.
	Well, okay.
	I had experience like that also and I had, you know, like PCO2 was, my PCO2, you know, I almost died and PCO2 was high and pH was down and oxygen was low and I had experience like that and I had the same experience and I was told that There will be like a big comet will be coming in year 2004.
	Around August 2004 there will be a comet coming to the Earth.
	And it will damage the oil fields, you know.
	So I agree with you, there should be alternative energy.
	The comet will be coming to Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.
	Well, that would cause lots of trouble.
	Right, it will be coming right at Saudi Arabia.
	And Kuwait, and Iran, and Iraq.
	And so, I really believe that... Oh gee, that would solve and cause several problems at the same time.
	Right, so all the oil fields will be gone, so we really need an alternative source of energy.
	Alright, I appreciate your call sir.
	Yes, if a comet were to hit that entire area, wipe it all out.
	It would, at the same time, cure some problems, but create monstrous problems.
	2004.
	That would be very poor timing.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art.
	Hello.
	This is Jeff.
	I'm somewhere near Frankfort, Kentucky right now.
	On a cell phone.
	On a cell phone, yes.
	I apologize.
	I'm a truck driver.
	I understand.
	That's all right.
	Go ahead.
	I know you don't like people asking how you're doing, so I'll just say I hope you're having a good morning.
	Thank you.
	I haven't caught any of the previous calls, but I have kind of a dream story that goes in that, well, you know how you have the falling dream?
	Oh yes, falling dreams, yes, of course.
	Yeah, you always wake up right before you hit.
	Right.
	Well, um... You hit.
	You hit, right?
	Yes, yes.
	You had a caller say before that he was in like third person watching, so he should take a gun to his head.
	Yes.
	Well, this was first person.
	And not only did I hit, I bounced about ten feet in the air and landed again.
	And on the second landing, I finally woke up.
	No kidding.
	That was an interesting experience.
	Oh, that is interesting, yes.
	You bounced like Wile E. Coyote.
	Well, he kind of hit some flattens, but yeah, I just kind of bounced.
	I mean, it was as realistic as day is long, but whenever I woke up, I was sweating and out of breath.
	I knew for sure that I was dead.
	Yeah, I can imagine, sir.
	I really appreciate the call, thank you.
	Bounced, now that's the first I've ever heard of that.
	In every falling dream I've ever had, I've always gone, like that, and been awake.
	And, of course, never fell all the way.
	Just the sensation of the falling was enough to bring me back awake.
	But there's somebody who hit, not only hit, but bounced.
	That's definitely a new one.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, this is Dave from Las Vegas.
	Yes, Dave.
	Listen, I'm talking about chemtrails a little bit.
	I was watching the local news the other day.
	You know how they show the state of Nevada and the Doppler radar?
	Yes.
	And the bottom probably quarter of the state was green.
	Was getting a green radar echo.
	Uh, yes.
	I looked out the window and of course the sun shined bright and the weather forecaster kind of chuckled.
	She said, well you know it's not raining outside.
	She said that's Nellis Air Force Base doing something.
	Chaff, really?
	Yeah.
	Chaff.
	She said so that they can test their airplanes without anybody else knowing it.
	I see.
	I thought that was something I've never heard of that before.
	You think that was a guess on her part?
	Well, I don't know.
	She sure made it sound official, but I don't know if that's what she was told officially or not.
	But it was just a bright green, just like it was a thunderstorm.
	You've got to say something right.
	If it's bright green, that means it should be pouring out there.
	Yeah.
	I had never heard that before, and I asked a friend of mine.
	They said, well, they use chaff in World War II or so.
	Well, we still use chaff.
	We still do.
	We do.
	But that's an interesting explanation.
	What channel was that on?
	Channel 8.
	Channel 8, huh?
	Yeah.
	So I just thought I'd let you know.
	Okay, thank you very much, and take care.
	Interesting.
	We'll be right back.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 3rd, 2001.
	Alright, back we go to all of you out there.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air, hello.
	Yeah, hi.
	Hi.
	I'd rather not be on the radio.
	Okay, well then I've got to go.
	See you later.
	The only reason you would call here is to be on the air, and if you don't want to be on the air, then I've got to take you off immediately, because that's the first line that I say.
	Hi, you're on the air.
	So, if after that you say, I don't want to be on the air, then actually you're going to immediately be off.
	A wildcard line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Let me turn my radio down.
	Thank you.
	It's hard.
	I've talked to you about six times on air and off in the last month and a half, and I wanted to point it out.
	I want to thank you.
	EarthLink MindSpring gave me the discount that you had over a year ago.
	Did they really?
	You know why?
	Why?
	Because they recognize the value of your commercials.
	So I want to give them one now.
	This is B.O.B.
	listening to KSCO, 1080 AM on the West Coast.
	Yes, sir.
	And I want you to have this Well, thank you very much for the commercial.
	I've been using them since, what, about a year and a half?
	I've talked to, besides you, several other professional friends in the computer field
	who say that's the best medium for research as a server, ISP, however you call it.
	I now have a permanent account, automatically deducted fees every month as of the 17th of
	last month.
	Thanks to you.
	Well, thank you very much for the commercial.
	I've been using them since, what, about a year and a half, two years now?
	I've been on MindSpring and very satisfied with their service.
	And they are everything that I advertised them to be when I advertised them.
	Would love to be advertising them again.
	I mean, they were absolutely everything that they were cracked up to be, and I'm still using them.
	What's for the Rockies?
	You're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello, Art.
	How are you doing today?
	Okay, sir.
	This is Ed from Most Like Washington.
	Yes, Ed.
	Hey, I've got a request.
	Uh, Diane Stein?
	Um, who?
	My wife has been, uh, studying, uh, the, uh, Reiki arts, and I was wondering... I, I, you're all, you're confusing me, I'm sorry.
	You said Diane Stein?
	Yes.
	Um... I thought that you might have had her as a host in the past?
	A host?
	I mean, I mean, a guest in the past, I'm sorry.
	No, no, not that I'm aware of.
	Um, I was just wondering, maybe you might have her as a guest.
	Who is she?
	Uh, she's in the Ricky Healing Arts.
	Okay.
	And I was just curious, maybe you might have her in the past.
	You get information?
	No, I haven't had her in the past, as I just told you.
	You get me information if you would like me to have her on.
	In fact, I'll say this to all callers now, and listeners.
	If there's somebody that you would like me to have on, If at all possible, don't just say, oh, would you please have on so-and-so.
	Give me some information so I can contact them.
	Any contact you have, information you have at all, greatly enhances your chances of my getting that person on.
	Because there's a great deal involved.
	In fact, people who would like to be on the air should contact me.
	Art Bell at MindSpring.com.
	If you're a guest, a potential guest, or you want to have somebody on, do the best you can to get me some contact info.
	It will really enhance the possibility of that person getting on.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Yes.
	Hi, how are you?
	Fine.
	Just two catchwords made me really want to call.
	When your guest earlier said, it's all about love.
	Right.
	And it's funny, too, these other people.
	I also, about three months ago, died in a dream.
	I was living as either a Native American or Indigenous person.
	Real simple living.
	Prairie-like.
	And we were being attacked.
	And I was killed by a spear through the stomach.
	Ouch.
	And it was really strange because I went to a remembered place where you go when you die, and I know I've been there before.
	And I wanted to go right back.
	They were telling me, you don't have to go right back, but I do because of the message.
	They said, well, you can't bring the message.
	You have to leave that here.
	But in my dream, somehow I brought it.
	It was the exact same thing he said.
	I was telling these people who were being slaughtered by others that don't worry about it.
	It's no big thing.
	It's all about loving each other.
	None of this matters.
	Well, I suspect that's absolutely accurate.
	It probably, in the end, is all about love.
	I think that's right.
	Yeah.
	I believe that's correct.
	I also wanted to thank you for Father Martin.
	I never heard his first one with you.
	Yes, he was... I'm not the one to thank for Father Martin, believe me.
	Well, you got him on the air.
	For interviewing him, sure.
	But you might want to rethink, in honor of him, the Antichrist line.
	I remember one of his answers was, we all modify each other through any interaction.
	Well, I don't know about rethinking the Antichrist line.
	Actually, I think it's healthy.
	Very healthy.
	And you never know, of all the calls you get out there, If just one of them, it only takes one that's real.
	This is true.
	But it's also the same reason we find our most hilarious jokes are at other people's misfortune because we have to laugh at that because it may happen to us.
	Or, well, that's right.
	I guess that's why we laugh.
	It's like, why do you laugh when somebody, especially a loved one, stubs their toe?
	Yeah.
	And they're screaming and yelping and jumping around the room.
	You start to clap like the three stooges form, and then they really hate you.
	Yeah, that's how it goes.
	That's right.
	I'm not sure what that's all about psychologically, but it cannot be helped.
	Yeah, well, you have to tell jokes when you're at a funeral.
	You go nuts.
	You know, like at a wake, when you're sitting around for hours.
	Yes, well, I don't personally believe in funerals.
	My view is that once the person is gone, that's just their body.
	They're long gone.
	If you're going to make peace with them or help them out, it's going to be mentally, in your own connection with God.
	I think so, too.
	I appreciate the call, sir.
	Thank you.
	And for that reason, I avoid funerals.
	I always have.
	I think it's a ritual.
	I understand it.
	And I understand that it gives some people comfort.
	But I'm not one of those people.
	What's to the Rockies?
	You're on the air.
	Yeah, this is Whitney from Washington.
	Hello, Whitney.
	How you doing, Art?
	Okay.
	Good.
	Is my radio off?
	I hope so.
	Good deal.
	I turned it off.
	I got the ring, so I turned it right off.
	Hey, the guy, the caller that was calling in about the, he said he shot himself in the head in his dream?
	Yes.
	I had one just like that.
	You too?
	Yes.
	And what happened?
	That's why I called in.
	Well, and my dream is a little bit simpler.
	It was, I was dreaming, but the, They gunned up to my head.
	Well, I'm not even sure if I did that, but I got a gun up to my head, shot myself in the head.
	In my dream, it just went black.
	And I woke up.
	But I could feel... I could feel... And everything just went black?
	Yeah, but I could feel everything about it.
	So I wanted to call in and let that guy know he's not the only one.
	I appreciate the call, sir.
	And by the way, speaking of guns and bullets, has anybody heard about the new green bullet?
	I couldn't... I was on CNN headline news all day long today.
	It's a new green bullet.
	Kinder to the environment.
	I'll tell you more about it.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 3rd 2001
	I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you.
	I love you, I love you, I love you.
	I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you.
	Can't make her mine She's no one's lover tonight
	With me she'll be so inviting I want her all for myself
	Oh, temptation eyes You'll get them through my, my, my soul
	Temptation eyes You've got to love me
	Got to love me tonight Got to love me, baby, yeah
	Oh, all that innocence is just a game We're just the same
	My head is spinning She's got a way to keep me on her side
	It's just a ride It's never ending
	Tonight with me she'll be so exciting I want her all for myself
	Oh, temptation eyes You'll get them through my, my, my soul
	You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere In Time Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 3rd, 2001.
	Good morning from the heart of the New Old West.
	That would be Pahrump, Nevada.
	That's the place I live in.
	Broadcast from.
	Glad to have you along.
	in a moment we'll be right back.
	Now we take you back to the night of May 3rd, 2001 on Ark Bell Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight, Dr. Stephen Greer is going to be here, and Dr. Greer is finally actually doing it.
	He's talked about it for years and years, and he is going to the National Press Club And in front of the nation's press, he is going to parade a lot of people that he has been unwilling to talk about for a long time.
	It's a very, very, very serious affair regarding UFOs, retrieval operations.
	There are going to be military people talking that have never talked before.
	Tomorrow night, you're going to get a preview of what's to come.
	And so, if you're part of the nation's press, you probably want to be listening tomorrow night.
	And sort of mentally deciding whether you want to be at the press club, whether you think it'll be a worthwhile endeavor to be at the press club.
	It's going to be quite something.
	And it's been a lot of years in the coming, and I'm sure you've heard Dr. Greer talk about it many times.
	Well, May 9th, it happens.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Art?
	Yes.
	This is Steve in West Hills, California, listening to you on KFI.
	Yes, sir.
	Yeah, I was just curious on your wind generator.
	Yes.
	I was watching the World News tonight, and, you know, we were talking about last night about your book and validation about the weird weather.
	Yes.
	He was using the expression tonight, wild weather.
	Uh, who was?
	Dan Rather.
	Dan Rather was?
	Wild weather, huh?
	They're starting to talk about it in the mainstream media.
	I know.
	But on your wind generator?
	Yes.
	What kind of winds will that sustain before, you know, if we start getting these really bad winds, before it would Well, it would probably sustain very severe winds.
	I have two wind generators on 48-foot masts and their guide with aircraft cable, so they're not going anywhere.
	And the wind generators themselves are meant, when the wind becomes too severe for them, which it does do out here, they automatically tilt backwards so that the wind can't damage them.
	Oh, that's good.
	I was just thinking... You understand that, in other words, it is a spring arrangement on the entire motor.
	It's really nothing more than a motor.
	It's a stator, a generator.
	And the whole thing tilts backwards, and of course, as it tilts backwards to protect itself, it stops catching as much of the wind.
	And in severe enough winds, it'll literally tilt 90 degrees.
	I see.
	I was thinking that the weather might get so bad that things like that might just become Useless, or just get destroyed, you know, if the wind gets 100 miles an hour.
	Well, you know, past some certain point, there are other things to worry about, like your house getting up and leaving.
	So yeah, that's true.
	But yes, that's the answer to your question.
	They protect themselves.
	And I was going to tell you about, you know what you need to do about the mad cow thing?
	What?
	You need to do what I'm doing.
	My consumption of beef has about tripled Because I want to eat as much of it as I can now before I can't eat it.
	And I noticed the people in the grocery store, I don't know if you do your shopping, but the people at the meat department in the grocery store are getting a little freaky, I think, because they were bumping us out of the way the other day when we were in there.
	It was a sale on beef.
	And my girlfriend just hollered at me something about the prices, like, look at these.
	Yes.
	And there was people, this woman came over and almost grabbed the pot roast that she had right out of her hand, and within 10 seconds there must have been 10 people right in that area trying to clean up what was in that.
	Gee, look here, the discount beef counter, it's just got little purple spots, don't let that bother you.
	No, no, this is real good.
	This is like $12.00.
	I understand.
	Marked down to $3.00 something.
	Yep, and I was just kidding with you.
	Alright, grab them and throw them in the freezer.
	Alright, thank you very much.
	Discount.
	Bigger discounts for the yellow spots.
	I don't know about, you know, just trying to over-beef yourself now in order to prepare for a dearth of beef later.
	Probably not a real good idea.
	Uh, first time caller line, you're on the air, hello.
	Hi Art, um, I was wondering, have you made a connection, like, with the guest tonight, uh, about It's All About Love, and then those two gentlemen, uh, a few nights ago who were talking about Raw or whatever, but they were saying that the fourth level of being a human was all about love.
	Sure, of course I've made a connection, and there are many people saying exactly the same thing.
	And you can choose to think that one is valid because it meets your expectations of what spirituality ought to be, and the other is mumbo-jumbo.
	It just, I guess it depends, you know?
	I was thinking when you had, I think it was Terrence McKinnon's brother on, was that?
	The gentleman who passed away and his brother came on?
	Yes.
	Um, and he was saying that he thought during the hippie era, at the very beginning, we were headed in the right direction, and it got off track, and that was all about love back then.
	That's right.
	Echoes, echoes, echoes, huh?
	Yeah, it all seems to come together in the end, huh?
	I couldn't agree more.
	Alright, I just was wondering.
	I wish I could live the standard, but I couldn't agree more.
	And I think that is ultimately true.
	It's probably all about love.
	What else is there?
	It's all about love.
	Sure.
	And so many say it in so many different ways.
	Some of them, as I said, depending on your belief system, will strike you as mumbo-jumbo.
	Some will make you angry.
	Some will make you happy.
	Some will make you understand.
	It will just hit you in all kinds of different ways.
	Ease to the Rockies.
	You're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	This is Maggie's grandfather.
	Pretty good aid calling from northern Minnesota.
	Welcome.
	I've never heard you say anything about any metaphysical experiences you yourself have experienced.
	Well, then you haven't been listening long enough.
	I know I haven't.
	I've had quite a bit to say.
	Also, you did mention about a week ago that you have never piloted a small airplane.
	Well, not by myself.
	And so I just thought a catalyst I had for metaphysical experience was taking lessons And on a small little Cessna airplane, after about three hours when I was capable of doing horizontal figure eights at a 60 degree bank, that night when I was going to sleep, I had memories of astral travel pre-birth, which is very interesting.
	Oh, that is interesting.
	Thank you very much.
	That is interesting.
	I've had a yearning to fly all my life and I have made several attempts.
	Some of them didn't work out so well.
	Beginning when I was young, I actually jumped off a building with an umbrella a number of times.
	You would think one time for that would be enough.
	But I will tell you this, for a young man, it actually is possible that a well-constructed umbrella will, you can actually feel it begin to support your weight for kind of a split second before it turns inside out and then you fall down like Wally Coyote.
	Boom!
	But I tried that several times with several grades of umbrellas.
	It was never a satisfactory experience and I did get, I got hurt.
	Uh, Wild Card Line would have been on the air.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yeah, I'd like to know about that John Edwards.
	What would you like to know?
	Turn your radio off, please.
	Okay.
	My, uh... What about John Edwards?
	My wife, she passed away a year ago in May 25th.
	Yes.
	It's almost up.
	And, uh, I watched his show a few times.
	On the Science Fiction Channel, right?
	Yeah.
	Right.
	Okay.
	He talks to the people that have passed on.
	Yes.
	Or they give him messages.
	Yes.
	Now, it sounds okay, huh?
	Oh, yes, I've seen it.
	Look, I'll give you what advice I have, and that is you must use self-discernment.
	Nobody is going to advise you, least of all me.
	Am I going to tell you John Edwards is the real thing or not?
	No, I am not.
	Nor can I know about anybody else, including the people that come on this program.
	How can I possibly know and possibly be in a position to advise you on whether it's a real thing?
	That's something you can only decide for yourself.
	So I would never, ever endeavor to tell anybody, oh, yes sir, he's a real one.
	He's really talking to the people on the other side.
	I have no idea.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello, Alec.
	I'd like to give your listeners some information about an e-zine that I think might be very interesting to them, considering tonight's topic.
	It's called The Greenstone Review, and it's basically an e-zine that's about What we're meant to do here on Earth, why we have astral travel experiences, lots of other issues that I think apply to your discussion tonight.
	I actually sent you an email a while ago, and I didn't give you the address that I should have given you.
	So if you wouldn't mind, I'd like to give the email address for your listeners.
	No, no, no.
	I can't let you do that, hon.
	I'm sorry.
	We have a rule against that.
	Oh, I see.
	If you want to send it to me in email, though, you're welcome to send another email.
	Okay, that'd be terrific.
	All right.
	Thank you.
	Thank you very much.
	We do that.
	I try to explain this to people whenever it comes up for obvious reasons, and I know that most of you are absolutely well-intended when it comes to an email address or a web address.
	But we have been burned a number of times.
	People giving supposedly benign addresses to hither and yon and they turn out to bounce into a porno site somewhere and so we just don't do it.
	Hope you understand.
	Oh, West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes, good evening, Art.
	Good evening, sir.
	Good morning.
	I'd like to make two comments, and then I'll hang up, and I'd like to get your reply about them.
	Fire away.
	The first one is about the Never a Straight Answer organization.
	I'm sorry, what is it?
	NASA.
	Never a Straight Answer?
	Yes.
	uh... and the man who went up and and spent twenty two twenty million dollars
	district she told yes uh...
	when i look around me aware of living in the city i'm living
	and i see that there are uh... homeless shelters that are closing because they can't
	raise a hundred and fifty thousand dollars in the elderly places
	and think that will help feed the poor They're closing because they can't even raise $50,000, $75,000.
	Yes.
	I think that it's an abomination that a person will be.
	And I think that it relates to the man's story, which will be the second thing I talk about.
	It's so self-centered.
	And it's not going anywhere until people start to put the funding back into society.
	Well, then you must then think that the space station itself is an abomination, right?
	Totally.
	Totally?
	Yeah, I think it's... And you think any probe that we would send to the Moon or Mars are abominations?
	At this particular point, at the state that the Earth is in, what man has done to natural resources of the Earth, yes.
	I think we should be focusing right now on cleaning up the environment.
	Oh, I do too, but I think we can do both, and I don't think the space station is an abomination, and I don't think that man's quest to keep pushing the envelope is an abomination.
	I think it's something that together we can and should do.
	I just think that NASA should be more responsive to those people that support it, like, you know, us, the taxpayers.
	I agree with that.
	I do agree that both things could possibly be done, but I don't think man is on the spiritual level to tell you the truth, to be able to go out into space.
	Just for the fact that when I look around me, and there are things shutting down, they can't even raise $50,000 and there's people homeless and starving in the street right in front of me.
	I'll make the second point, because I don't want to take up all the time.
	I believe that this man experienced exactly what he experienced your guest tonight.
	Yes.
	I believe that he totally experienced that from his background when he called out.
	And by the way, I've never once heard someone on the air actually say Christ's actual historical name, which in Hebrew was Yehoshua.
	Right.
	You know what, though?
	I don't think it matters.
	It does matter.
	No, I don't think it matters.
	I don't think it matters.
	No, you're right, you won't.
	I don't think it matters one bit.
	That's my take on it.
	You see, I think that if you call out, and you're calling out to God, and you don't have quite the right name, that you're going to just sink into the depths of hell, because you didn't get the name right.
	That's just something that I personally don't believe about God.
	It's part of this strict religious dogma that drives me away from it in the first place.
	If you are in absolute distress And you say, oh God help me, please help me, or Buddha, or whatever it is you believe in, then I rather think that you will be helped.
	And I think that if you don't get the name quite right, or you don't use the perfect biblical version of the name, that that is going to prevent you from getting help.
	If that's the case, then it's not exactly structured as I imagine anyway, which of course it might not be.
	But if it's like that, I don't know.
	I just, I'm sorry.
	I don't buy it.
	Wild, or no, International Line, you're on the air.
	Yeah, g'day, Art.
	It's Andy from Melbourne, Australia here.
	Hello, Andy.
	I was just switching gears a little bit from the last call, but something that I've come across on the net about the UFOX Files internet show that was supposed to be held is going to be cancelled.
	I was wondering if you'd heard any more about that.
	Um...
	You know, I did hear something about a cancellation.
	Apparently their site got hacked and they were concerned that they won't be able to really run it.
	Was it the Chinese?
	I was going to say, was it the Chinese?
	Well, if that's the case, then the U.S.
	hackers weren't good enough to get back at them.
	We have the best hackers in the world.
	I have confidence in our hackers and I hope they take after the Chinese and beat their butts.
	I hope they turn their servers into liquid.
	Good for you, good for you, there you go.
	But I was a little bit concerned about some of the people that might have already paid up, and if it is definitely cancelled.
	Apparently they're claiming that... No, I can't give you the official... That's what I heard too, that they were hacked.
	But I only heard it in email, so we ought not say it like it's official until we know.
	No worries.
	Okay, then I just thought I'd run up past you anyway.
	All right.
	No, thank you very much.
	No, I heard the same thing.
	I just... I obviously can't make an official announcement without more knowledge.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Good morning.
	Hi.
	Turn your radio off, please.
	I just did.
	Thank you.
	Proceed.
	My question for you, Art, is I know you've expressed libertarian views in the past.
	Yes.
	And I'm...
	My question for you is, if you believe in libertarian views, as, you know, Harry Brown and so forth, why do you think it's George Bush's, uh, why should he fund a, uh... An attempt to, uh... What sort of advantage?
	I mean, I mean... Well, hold on, sir.
	I never said that I believed everything that Harry Brown believes, nor have I ever said that I am a pure libertarian.
	In fact, I've had this discussion with Harry Brown on a number of occasions when he's been on the program.
	I think there are certain proper roles for government.
	A pure libertarian just about thinks there shouldn't be any government at all.
	That's not me.
	I'm more of a libertarian than I am anything that would be defined by the other two political parties.
	But I think that a proper place for government is the health and welfare of the people that it purports to serve.
	And allowing us to go down a blind alley using fossil fuels until they're gone, or we have a crisis and or a war, is just plain stupid.
	Is that clear?
	Well, yes it is, but my opinion is if alternative energy sources are commercially viable, they should be able to stand on their own.
	The government shouldn't have to subsidize them.
	Oh, I don't think I said anything about subsidizing.
	I think we were discussing funds for research, weren't we?
	Well, you know, the two are pretty much tied together in as much as the If alternative energy sources are commercially viable, then they'll be able to carry themselves on their own.
	Now, I know you've set up an alternative energy source.
	You said you have wind source there.
	Wind and solar, yes.
	They're in Pahrump.
	Yes.
	I live in Southern California, and I've considered that as an option myself.
	The return is so small compared to the expenditure that I'd have to put out.
	Well, I wish I... The show is ending.
	What I would suggest is you call and we'll have a more extensive conversation about this on another night, okay?
	Okay.
	And do me a favor, next time call on a real phone.
	Well, I'm sorry, I'm a truck driver.
	No, I understand.
	Just pick a real phone and call me, alright?
	Okay, I appreciate it.
	Good night, my friend, and all.

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